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Wings Over Scotland

Movin’ on up

Posted on September 15, 2015 by

All five of the opinion pollsters who regularly poll on Scottish politics (Panelbase, YouGov, TNS, Ipsos Mori and Survation) have now published surveys in the past two weeks asking the independence question. So it seems reasonable to expect there’ll be no more polls before the anniversary of the referendum on Friday.


Given the conventional wisdom that the economy, underpinned by that pesky volatile oil, was the main reason not enough Scots could be persuaded to take the leap into self-government, readers might expect that the dramatic collapse in the oil price since last year (when we checked today it was trading at just over $47 a barrel, less than half the $97 it was at the start of September 2014) would only have cemented voters’ feeling that they made the right decision.

So why is the opposite true?


23 polls have been conducted since the No campaign won by 10.6 percentage points. Just three of them have given No a lead of more than half that size.

Despite the oil price, and endless doom-laden prophesies from gleeful Unionists about the size of the black hole an independent Scotland would face as a result, the nation has shifted significantly towards Yes in the last 12 months.

The average of the 23 polls, excluding Don’t Knows, is:

YES: 49.3%
NO: 50.7%

We can only speculate about the various possible reasons. The election of a majority Conservative government will have come as an unpleasant shock to a lot of people who didn’t listen to this site’s three years of warnings that it was going to happen, and destroyed the idea that a Labour UK government offered an alternative solution to brutal Tory austerity. You’ll have to go a long way to find anyone who thinks Labour have any chance of winning in 2020, or even 2025.

While it was barely mentioned in the press, it’s also possible that voters have noticed that the oil price is a double-edged sword. When it falls, the oil industry might suffer but the rest of the economy gets a big boost from lower fuel and transport costs.

(At the same time as the the Unionist narrative about the “broad shoulders” of the UK protecting oil jobs falls apart, with tens of thousands lost or about to be lost.)

Perhaps it’s seeing so many of the Yes camp’s warnings coming true, as the UK parties produced a watered-down Smith Commission which the UK government then watered down even further, and the reality of what “tax powers” meant in practice – billions of pounds being cut from the Scottish budget – became clearer.

Or when Scotland, left at the mercy of Westminster, saw clean, renewable energy sabotaged by the removal of subsidies while taxpayers were saddled with paying vast ones to new nuclear projects in England.

Or it could have been all the threatened “dangers” of independence happening anyway in the Union, as with this lovely pair of Scottish Daily Express covers – the one on the left from a few months before the referendum, the one on the right a few months after:


Did the sickening scenes in George Square on September 19 turn the stomachs of people who saw the true face of the Loyalist side of Unionism, which “Better Together” no longer had to try to keep a lid on now the referendum was over, and convince them that this wasn’t a country they wanted to be part of after all?

Or maybe the elderly, whose overwhelming No vote tipped the balance against their children and grandchildren, have simply started dying off already, to be replaced by a younger generation of new voters more wedded to the idea of a better future than to remembering World War 2 and Gracie Fields or whatever.

We really don’t know. All we can say is that one year on, a Yes movement needing a 5.4% swing to turn the referendum result around has already achieved one of 4.6%.

With Scotland facing 10 more years of Tory governments it didn’t elect and Unionist politicians north of the border all but obliterated in May, it’s not difficult to see why the furious demands of the UK parties to lock out a second vote for a generation – no matter what the public wants – are growing ever more shrill.

None of the above means that a second referendum tomorrow would succeed. The average of the polls is still a hair’s-breadth No lead, and voters almost invariably have a last-minute loss of nerve over any major change, so Yes will need significant further progress to give itself a cushion. But a year which should have been a series of hammer blows for independence has instead seen it grow stronger and stronger.

Tick, as we’re fond of saying, tock.

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  1. 15 09 15 19:43

    Movin’ on up | Speymouth

  2. 16 09 15 12:40

    Movin' on up | Politics Scotland |

245 to “Movin’ on up”

  1. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    We’re on the road…

    Only time will tell how long (or short) the journey is.

  2. Craig says:

    Nearly one year on and the pain of the No vote doesn’t get any easier.

    In one way, people say it was needed so that they would wake up to the enormity of their decision

    In the other, I just wished this extra pain wasn’t needed for them to wake up.

  3. manandboy says:

    Well done Stu. We’re on course alright. It’s only a matter of time. Scotland Mean Time. Tick,tick,tick,tick,tick,tick

  4. JayR says:

    Deep down I always thought that, true to our nature and history, we would sadly do things the hard way by not voting for independence in 2014. I’m much more certain we will do the right thing in the second referendum.

    Our opponents are scattered, terrified, and doing their “union” almost more damage than we ever could. Let’s all get together and finally get this job done you amazing people!

  5. heedtracker says:

    Near on 600 red and blue tory English MP’s dictate virtually everything in Scotland but once blue tory EVEL kicks in…

  6. Rock says:

    Or Yes actually won but the result was rigged.

  7. naebd says:


    I’m very sad to say that after looking at that design I’ve decided we’re #bettertogether.

  8. Bob Mack says:

    It is indeed inevitable. The difference in the outlook of the Scots and the English (majority),is too wide to bridge.
    The prospect of Tory rule for the next ten years at least, should be enough to turn the tables at the next vote.

    That is the message I now hammer home to any who will listen.The next PM is most likely B Johnston esq who is if anything ,more radical than Cameron.

  9. Janet says:

    Trust Corbyn? Nah, would like to but I suspect he is just another centralist, wedded to state enterprises bolted onto the Westminster system.

    He’s been kinda quiet on Scotland. Don’t like his choice of shadow SoS!

  10. Michellemabelle says:

    Of course we still need to be cautious, another no vote WOULD put independence to bed for a generation.

    Frustrating as hell, but softly, softly catchee monkey.

  11. marcia says:

    Excellent summary young man. A year on and the expectation of the successful No side that the Yes side would melt away has not gone to plan. They seem to be rather angry that the Yes support has strengthened rather than weakening. They seem to never stop talking about Independence and referendums whilst claiming it is the Yes that talk about it all the time.

  12. Lesley-Anne says:

    Here are a few wee pointers to what we have had to endure in the last 24 hours from the House of Commons. Try and keep all shock to a low rumble … PLEASE! 😉

    1) Most people will be aware that yesterday there was a debate in the House of Commons about the Tory plans in their Trade Union Bill. As we all know the Tories won the debate 317 votes for the AYES against 284 votes for the NOES.

    What a lot of people may not know is that 49 alleged Labour M.P.’s, in reality members of the Abstention Party, sat on their butts with their thumbs stuck up their earse!

    2) Before the House of Commons broke up for their Summer recess they held a vote that included an S.N.P. amendment that called for the Scottish Police and Fire service to be exempt from VAT. Jeremy Corbyn voted WITH the S.N.P. in support of the amendment. Oh look Ian Murray the sole Labour M.P. from Scotland voted AGAINST the amemndment.

    3) The BBC are now reporting on their website that the Tories have won another increase the poverty vote.

    MPs backed a motion enacting the changes by 325 votes to 290.

    Now you can call me a cynic here but the voting figures tends to suggest to me that more than a couple of *ahem* Labour M.P.’s sat on their earse … AGAIN!

    If only Hansard could identify the abstainers. 😀

  13. Croompenstein says:

    The Establishment is trolling us unabated and are asset stripping the country… Scotland Free or a desert

  14. call me dave says:

    Aye we’re all still here ready for Indy 2.

    Postal vote police enquiry ends:

  15. Rob James says:

    Strange how the right wing media polls tend to give the no side a bigger lead. Even the Daily rancid appears to be a bit closer to the mark, suggesting more realistic and random method of polling.

    Perhaps the Times commissioned their polls in Red Morningside.

  16. galamcennalath says:

    Good appraisal of where we have moved to and a list of what might have caused the shift.

    My own feelings are that the reasons listed above have not fully sunk in yet. People go about their daily business, at best the media ignores us and at worst their output avoids the facts, and Unionists pretend the Union is hunky dory.

    Indyref2 will highlight all these points above and they will sink in!

    It’s chicken and egg, though. We need more NO voters to see the light and switch, before indyref2 is called. Ideally we want to begin with a genuine national clammer for Indy. 60% would do nicely!

  17. HandandShrimp says:

    The polls do explain why it is such hard going for the naysayers. They had hoped that they would bury us on the 18th. That it would not only kill off independence for 30 years but that it would destroy the SNP. Their victory is Pyrrhic and instead of watching us fall apart they have fallen upon each other.

    The bitterness of some of the more regular No posters is actually worse than before the vote. Oh the sweet smell of schadenfreude 🙂

  18. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi naebd.

    “I’m very sad to say that after looking at that design I’ve decided we’re #bettertogether.”

    Ach well, no accounting for taste, or a sense of destiny. There are many of those badges being worn in the home of the Dragon, Dundee.

    You’ll probably see one or three of them in George Square on Saturday. We’re quite a proud team… YES Bus.

  19. Big Jock says:

    I reckon that’s an average increase of 0.4% per month. If it keeps going we could be at 54% next May. Once it gets to 58% and no on 42%. It’s time to go for it.

  20. Macart says:

    Neatly done Rev.

    Patience and nerve. We are winning this and it can only be done with a steady measured approach. We don’t let the establishment or their mouthpieces dictate the pace. We do this in our own way and with determination.

    Osborne will grow desperate as time passes. He will turn the screws of austerity even tighter, budget after budget. He has no choice. Some form of EVEL will make a reappearance and make no mistake the establishment will shaft the Scottish electorate over the devolution settlement. We need only be there to spread the word one door and one vote at a time if we have to.

    At the very least, we’ve moved approx. 5% in the right direction, under the worst of economic conditions and with the full weight of the UK media on our necks in the space of a single year. No too shabby folks. No too shabby at all.

    Tick tock Westminster. 🙂

  21. Marie Clark says:

    Aye it’s funny that Marcia, it is the No side who keep talking about a new referendum. They seemed to bring it up first. I think most of us know that the name of the game is patience. Too soon at the moment.

    Poor old Corbyn won’t last as leader of what is laughingly known as the Labour party. If they can’t give him the bum’s rush, they will inevitably split. Either way, they are finished in Scotland.

    If the referendum did one thing, it taught us to see through all the shit that they throw. That’s why we ignore anything they tell us now. It also strengthened our resolve, that’s why YES has not died off as they had hoped.

    We’re no goan back into the box, we’re gonnae win this fight sooner or later. Sooner would be good mind.

  22. Robert Kerr says:

    The facts from the statistics that must give cause for concern are summarised by the Rev.

    23 polls have been conducted since the No campaign won by 10.6 percentage points. Just three of them have given No a lead of more than half that size.

    Either polling is very poor/fiddled or the Referendum was fiddled.

    Choose what you will.

  23. Muscleguy says:

    Living in the Yes City, my view is necessarily slanted but we have definitely not gone backwards since last year. The Noes are very quiet hereabouts.

    I expect next time we go we’ll be chapping at open doors and will need to carry extra stocks of Yes posters and stickers.

    IF in the interim the Catalans manage to face down Rajoy and win their independence we might just have to carry Catalan flags etc as well as traipsing around in Barca fitba shirts 😉

  24. JLT says:

    In my opinion, I believe we are in the lull before the storm; a storm that will eventually push the %’s up for those wishing for independence for Scotland. For myself, the Tories will try and implement EVEL, turn the screw further with austerity, and eventually declare an EU Referendum before the UK (with the aim for a UK exit).

    I couldn’t see Cameron getting any amendment to the ‘Human Rights’ Act, nor the ‘Freedom of Movement’ Act before, so after the UK’s stance over the Refugees in Europe, why the hell would the EU bend over backwards and help him to opt out of those 2 key policies of the EU …especially after his negative stance over the Refugee crisis within Europe. He won’t help them by taking any of the Refugees that are already in the EU. In the end, I believe they’ll just tell him to ‘eff off’ and call his bluff over an EU exit.

    If he gets hee-haw from Europe, then a fair portion of his backbenchers will begin to cry for an exit (after all, that was literally the promise he made to his party if he got nothing from the EU).

    Once the Scottish people realise what an EU exit truly means, then they will freak out. Possible threats to their existing working contracts, which maybe open to changes (and not for the better) in which holidays and redundancy could be watered down, then I believe people will be seriously alarmed.

    With no-one from the Unionist parties (especially the Tories) offering any vision of what the UK will be like post-EU-exit, then by the same arguments that the ‘No’ Campaign used against the Scottish Nationalists (when they asked us what an independent Scotland would definitely look like if we won), people will demand the same thing from Westminster and the Unionists. With no credible answers (because there won’t be), people will panic and look for the safety-net of staying in Europe. That means Scotland seceding from the Union. This EU threat will be the instigator of a real drive towards independence. The Unionists used personal financial security as their weapon of choice in the Referendum; it will become ours in the EU Referendum as an argument against an exit from the EU …and remaining within the British Union.

  25. Big Jock says:

    Yes Macart and never forget 2 years ago indi was 35% at best. We have come a long way in 2 years. We woke up the young and middle aged working classes in Scotland. They are not going back in their boxes.

    Incidently I expect Osborne to be PM by next Summer. He is Thatchers love child. Be very afraid he is truly dangerous.

  26. Dr Jim says:

    Banning bagpipes at the Rugby now in order to have no displays of National Unity under the guise of wait for it

    ( They’re noisy )

    I won’t even go into the comparisons with the Vuvusela
    but they’re actually doing it (Banning Bagpipes)

    Now Personally I don’t bother with Rugby but that I think is hardly the point, it’s an attack on Scottishness

    Whoever the governing body of Rugby in Scotland is they had better assert their rights in this or refuse to take part

    If other Nations can have their Traditions or musical instruments whether it’s a big bloody drum or a trumpet or folk sticking their tongues out while they’re screaming then Scotlands entitled to it’s cultural heritage

    Or is it Scotland must lose in silence waving the Union Flag coz we’re Bastirt British

    I don’t like it

  27. Nana Smith says:


    Very interesting article.

    ‘Scotland free or a desert’ terrific slogan for a banner right now. As you say Westminster is asset stripping and it’s going to get worse.

  28. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Only pursuit of the beaten enemy gives the fruits of victory.” – Clausewitz

    Ha, ha. The only forces I see in retreat are those of the Dark Side. Let’s harry their ‘cultural’ support and smash BBC Labour in Scotland.

  29. Onwards says:

    The most encouraging surveys are the ones in which around 70% of Scots see independence as inevitable.

    One of the current arguments against a second referendum seems to be ‘division’ – as if democracy isn’t a good thing.

    And with independence now being widely seen as Scotland’s destiny, surely it is those who would hold us back that can now be seen as causing any division ?

  30. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. It appears I was correct when I pointed out to David Torrance, the empirical factual truth that he’s a prick.

  31. gordoz says:

    Powerful concise stuff rev –

    Brilliant collation of several aspects and pointers that shouldn’t be giving us these results unless several lies are now maturing and as the YES side challenged all along; Better Together ? (Aye for who? )

  32. Marco McGinty says:

    It’s slightly off topic, and it’s hardly a real scientific analysis of the mindset of English voters, but there was a short piece on The One Show last Friday regarding Jeremy Corbyn and some of his socialist policies.

    A number of people were interviewed in Guildford, and asked whether they agreed with some policies. The majority of those shown did agree with all of the policies, but when it was revealed that these were the socialist policies of Jeremy Corbyn, some of those questioned turned away in disgust.

    It really is mind-bogglingly absurd that people would agree with certain things, only to ignore their own principles simply because they follow that of the socialist movement.

    Anyway, for those that want to watch it, here’s the link, with the item starting at 2 mins 5 secs.

    However, after the piece, a certain BBC political figure was in the studio, mainly to talk utter shite. Listen out for Alex Jones’s introduction. A wee Freudian slip, perhaps?

  33. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Muscleguy.

    “IF in the interim the Catalans manage to face down Rajoy and win their independence we might just have to carry Catalan flags etc”

    Funny you should type that…

    These are two badge designs we’ve done for the Independence Live team who are going over to Catalonia to cover the elections on 27th September. As usual, we’ll have a wee stock of them at George Square on Saturday, raising funds for Greater Maryhill Foodbank in Glasgow and the ‘Taught By Muhammad’ Foodbank in Dundee.

    The background tartan is the ‘Caledonia-Catalonia’ tartan, designed by David McGill of International Tartans.

  34. One_Scot says:

    I have said it before, but unless the Scottish Government can put in place mechanisms to ensure a fair and fraud free referendum, (out with the unionist media bias and British state lies that is), then we could have a referendum from now until Christmas and the outcome will still be the same.

    I believe we need a Scottish media TV news output free from bias if we are to stand any chance of success.

  35. Dorothy Devine says:

    Cameron , I think you should stop being so nice to him.

  36. wellreadned says:

    Glad you mentioned the thugs in George Square.

    When I went to bed in the morning I was deflated, defeated and had frankly given up.

    When I awoke and walked through the town getting spat upon and intimidate by wee thugs I felt, well not hate, but cold fury underpinned by a renewed determination.

    As John Lydon put it, anger is an energy and I am very, very angry.

  37. Kenny Ritchie says:

    Encouraging indeed, but another referendum should be postponed until Yes is consistently polling with 60% or more.

  38. Proud Cybernat says:

    It’s comin’ for a’ that.

  39. Lots of good points made which I agree with, but my big fear is that by the time we become independent, Scotland will be a “desert”. Westminster will remove as many of our assets as they can, and encourage private companies operating in Scotland to move south.
    What I will never understand, and I accept the stats, that those of us who lived through the 1979 referendum, voted No in such numbers. I would have thought that the carnage of Scotland’s industrial and manufacturing base following that fraud, would have made people of my age realise that we were being lied to once again.
    But no, and while like Macart I urge caution in calling another referendum, I just hope the “gamechanger” arrives sooner rather than later, and I can leave an independent Scotland to my great-grandchildren.

  40. Graeme Borthwick says:

    Don’t be too sure about the Polls. There was no silent majority.
    I joined the Labour Party (£1) and went to look for it. I went to a meeting in Bread Street, Edinburgh, where Broon and Murphy spoke. There were 200 people there, 50% Media. Nicola could pull in 1000s. There is no silent majority. In my view the Polls and the Vote are suspect. There is too much at stake for the US/UK for them to be otherwise.

  41. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T sorry,

    Just back from an enjoyable Islay Jazz Festival.

    Good Jazz complimented by very visible Saltires and YES signs.

    Guess the Ileachs are none too happy with their Q-men, Robertson and Carmicheal !

    The only butchers apron visible was at Bowmore distillery and they also had a Saltire flying.

  42. CameronB Brodie says:

    Marco McGinty @ 7:45pm
    The information environment has been ‘progressively’ saturated with neo-liberal dogma over the last 40 years, which can be quite disorienting if you don’t have the tools to see past the smoke and mirrors.

  43. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ‘Either polling is very poor/fiddled or the Referendum was fiddled.

    Choose what you will.”

    Or, the sane explanation, public opinion has changed a bit.

  44. Macart says:

    @Big Jock

    I agree Jock, that fella is a rankbadjin if ever there was one and I also agree he appears to be heir apparent to the Conservative leadership.

    Still there are several triggers which may provide us with an ideal opportunity within the current electoral term. The trick is ggoing to be choosing the one which suits the electorate best rather than allowing Westminster to force the issue to soon. We need a wee bit more time to get the message across and persuade folks.

    You guys and folks like the Rev, WGD, Bella, NNS have done a helluva job in the past year. We need to keep this up for as long as is needed and we’re home… dare I say it… free.

  45. ClanDonald says:

    If you count just the most recent result from each pollster since the General election then yes is in the lead with 50.3% (excluding don’t knows).

  46. shug says:

    I do not think we should assume Scots will continue to move to yes
    We have to assume the opposite and reinforce the message you can’t trust the BBC or msm
    We haven’t get wings seen by more people and to be seen as mainstream

  47. Chitterinlicht says:

    I would love to be able to see the Channel 4 debate on the eve of last years referendum but deleted it in disgust on 18th and cannae find it online.

    No side-

    Scot Hastings frothing at the mouth ‘i sweated blood for Scotland on rugby pitch’ (totally fud)

    Michael Mone mOaning

    Mad unionists dressed in union jack suits in audience (sure history woman was there)

    Sensible pro indy folk like lesley riddoch, elaine c smith, irvine welsh, Professor Tom Devine etc just talking sense and wanting the best for people who live in Scotland

    It just captured the empty ambitionless self hating souless visionless too wee too poor mantra of bloody Scots/Brits Unionists.

    ALL their arguments were based on some made up vision of a past Great Britian that never actually existed or if it didi Thatcher sold it off cheap. .

    I want nothing to do with them

    Still a yes and i will always be a yes

    Indyref2 yes please and sometime in next 10 years before i am too old and vote no as worried aboot ma pension.

  48. shug says:

    We have to get the message out Westminster has not lived up to its word, it has not lived up to the vow it has not delivered whe it set down on paper
    There’s no reason to believe any promises again
    Only wings can deliver this message
    All mp map and other must always start comments with they have not delivered on their word

  49. john king says:

    Utter disgrace
    news report that the bagpipes have been banned from the rugby world cup the sheer breathtaking audacity of these people.

  50. Giving Goose says:

    Something that struck me tonight is this.

    With Corbyn now Labour leader, voted in by the grassroots, if there were a mutiny among the PLP to get rid of him then it would be seen as the Establishment ganging up on him. The result would be that Corbyn’s ideas would gain traction among grass roots in England. Corbyn is a Republican and the grass roots would swing behind Republicanism as well as as his anti-austerity views, his beliefs on job creation, building houses etc.

    If Corbyn is successful in his leadership, the same thing happens; his ideas, beliefs and policies gain traction among the electorate.

    Irony of ironies, you then have the following situation in Scotland; the Tories continue to be toxic, the LibDems continue to be dust, while the only two parties in town are the Labour Party and the SNP.

    One is Republican – Labour. The other, the SNP is the only one advocating (on current form) a monarchy. In the space of 12 months a truly unbelievable scenario is on the cards. The No voters who followed Labour in the IndyRef now find themselves, metaphorically of course, looking down the barrel of an Anti Monarchy/pro Republic gun. I can’t help but smirk at the sheer deliciousness of it all.

    Change is coming but not from the direction that No voters expected.

    Expect contortions of a very knotted kind from the No camp in the coming months and don’t forget the popcorn.

  51. Robert Louis says:

    With each passing day, more and more Scots are seeing just how much Labour and Tory anti independence campaigns literally lied through their teeth to them. ALL the things that those in the pro independence camp warned about have now happened. This includes the nastiest Tory Government, which Scotland rejected by a massive margin, yet rules over us in Scotland, against our wishes. No other country in the world would tolerate it for even one second.

    Independence is coming, and an end to London colonial misrule of Scotland is coming to an end. It cannot happen too soon. 🙂

  52. Dorothy Devine says:

    John King , in the words of that great british runner and Olympic organiser ,Lord Coe , ” F^ck ’em”

  53. Tamson says:

    At the risk of being a bit negative, was it not the case that the opinion polls were running a bit ahead of the actual referendum result last year? I think James Kelly’s (Scot Goes Pop) last poll-of-polls before the referendum was 48 Yes, 52 No.

    So if we assume there’s a systemic polling error, things haven’t moved as much as we’d like. I think Sturgeon et al are right to be cautious. The enormous public spending cuts won’t start hitting people until several months after the next Westminster Budget, and that’s when the awful reality of a Tory government will start to really sink in.

  54. Tam Jardine says:

    A source of endless bemusement for me since the referendum has been the Westminster parties’ absolute inability to follow up on their success in staving off the yes surge.

    To understand how fortunate we have been we need only look at the ways the enemies of Scottish Independence could have followed up on their victory and cemented the union for generations to come.

    Had I been charged with destroying the Indy movement I would have:

    – Kicked EVEL into the long grass with the promise of a constitution convention of the kind Milliband proposed… wishy washy future stuff to give a sop to all and sundry whilst carrying on- business as usual.

    – Consented enthusiastically to the watered down, piss poor Smith commissions, even going further in some highly visible (though fundamentally inconsequential) areas to hammer home how valued Scotland is and how Westminster is listening.

    -When the SNP table amendments to the new Scotland Bill I would have assented to at least one to avoid the obvious narrative that Westminster is ignoring Scotland’s representatives.

    -I would have gone in hard during the general election but been careful not to demonise the SNP, or their key players and to avoid antagonising the Scottish people.

    -I would have found a key infrastructure project (probably rail or energy) to throw a decent amount of money at (rather than the 500 million to improve piers etc at Faslane). Something big I could ram down the SNP’s throats at every turn.

    -I would have looked at sporting institutions like the world cup, the euros, rugby world cup; and made it policy that the UK would bid for future tournaments as a whole.

    -I would have taken a couple of government departments and relocated them north of the border. Nothing major but something to again build on the narrative that the UK is still a state.

    -Lastly, I would look at every political issue rumbling away (refugees, europe, austerity, trident) and sensed the temperature in Scotland. The tories will never adopt SNP policy but they didn’t have to- they needed to go some way in the same direction on all issues so the Scottish people, although never in the same place as the UK government, was at least on the same side.

    You could come up with a hundred other ways they could have spiked the SNP and dissipated the Yes campaign.

    Westminster, and in particular the conservatives’ desire to instead put us all in our place is the reason the yes vote is polling 5% higher than the referendum despite the prevailing economic conditions.

    The article above Stu has written is testament to how unsuccessful Westminster has been in consolidating their victory. Had Westminster been successful in following up on their success I would not be sitting on Wings and this article would not exist. People would not be marching this weekend. No-one would be talking about Indyref 2.

    Lets hope they keep on the same path. The UK looks like it will not last the decade at this rate.

  55. punklin says:

    Is it fanciful to think that a YES campaign could echo the first which went from mid-twenties to 45% during the course of the campaign? Even if the momentum next time was half of that increase it would mean that YES could romp home with 60% plus.

    Of course everyone knows so much more now and the margins would be tighter, but given other recent polls showing most people think independence inevitable, it’s clear who would gain from a positive campaign and who would lose from a likely negative one (if there IS a positive case for the union, like WMD, no bugger has yet discovered it!).

  56. Graeme Doig says:

    OT sorry Rev but related to asset stripping talked about by some here.

    Thanks to Tam Jardine for your response to my question about what the Scot. Govt. are/aren’t doing to highlight the energy connection costs.

    It seems to me that we are under a major economic, cultural and political assault by old blighty and her emissaries. Everything from watered down ‘Smith’ to undermining our energy producing ability to union flags on anything and everything in our shops.

    I fully expect to leave my house one day to find the very air i breath to have been turned red, white and blue.

    Thanks to Wings and Wingers for keeping me sane (Mrs D will be on in a minute to disagree)

  57. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not disagreeing, though I think what is remarkable is the resilience evident in the Yes support.

  58. john king says:

    that’s another twenty votes
    after the bagpipes slap in the puss


  59. Sinky says:

    Lesley-Anne says: at 6.44

    Is this what you are looking for?

    Early day motion 77 •
    • Session: 2015-16
    • Date tabled: 03.06.2015
    • Primary sponsor: Cherry, Joanna

    That this House calls on the Government to agree to requests from the Scottish Government for Police Scotland and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to have the same ability to recover VAT as other emergency services across the UK; notes that providing a level playing field for Scotland would free up an additional £33 million to invest in frontline policing, fire and rescue in Scotland at a time when budgets are under real pressure as a result of the Government’s austerity policies; and urges the Government to finally do the right thing and provide a fair deal for Scotland’s emergency services and end the disparity with other emergency services across the UK.

    Signed by Jeremy Corbyn but not Union Jacket Ian Murray who followed the Willie Bain doctrine of not supporting SNP motions.

  60. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tam Jardine @ 9:25pm
    I think the obstacle preventing our Westminster ‘representatives’ recognising the keys to Scotland’s continued entrapment, as you have describe, is conflated ENGLISH/BRITISH NATIONALISM. It would be seen as appeasement to fascist nationalists…”We’ll fight them on the beaches” shite.

    P.S. My previous post was in reply to Tamson @ 9:19pm. Hadn’t meant to be exclusionary. 😉

  61. john king says:

    Tam Jardine


  62. Clive Scott says:

    At terminal 2, Heathrow, Vodaphone appear to have released their post Indyref2 billboard adverts early. The background is the “union” flag stripped of Saltire content i.e. it is red and white only. Wonder what the “proud Scots but” make of it?

    Insightful post Rev, keep them coming.

  63. Taranaich says:

    And don’t forget, Yes Scotland closed up shop after the referendum, while Project Fear continued unabated in an effort to “prove” Scots made the right decision…

    @Rev: when we checked today it was trading at just over $47 a barrel

    It’s $48 as of posting, and was $53 a few days ago, which shows how oil price can change *in a day.* I still think the oil is only significant because we let it become significant (we’re still 99% of rUK’s GDP, right?), but that just means they’ll look like idiots when the price goes back up again.

    @Tam Jardine: Had I been charged with destroying the Indy movement I would have:

    The problem is I don’t think any of those things could have destroyed the Indy movement at all, simply taken it down a different road – because you know the right-wing MPs will not just happily allow Scotland to continue getting all these goodies and “subsidies.” Anti-Scottish sentiment would reach fever pitch, UKIP would have another thing to beat the Tories and Labour with, and Scots would start to feel a lot less appreciated.

    The more Westminster gives the SNP in the interests of crushing it, the more the SNP use it right back against them. Devolution was meant to kill the SNP, yet it ended up taking us where we are now.

  64. Lesley-Anne says:

    That sounds like the very one Slinky. 😉

    I think it is absolutely disgusting that a person allegedly from Scotland voted AGAINST the early day motion that would actually help the Police and Fire and Rescue services of … erm … SCOTLAND!

    Ian Murray is a joke, as we all know all too well. He should really just do us all a great big favour and move across the floor and sit with his Tory mates!

  65. Big Jock says:

    The thought that the referendum was maybe rigged. Is very painful to contemplate. That we voted yes and they stole it makes my heart sink.

    The thing that makes me doubt the rigging. Is that you would need thousands of agents to arrange it. Their silence would have been bought. But by now someone would have slipped up or had a loose tongue. Maybe it was smallscale rigging!

    And when are BBC going to stop talking about a war 75 years ago. They talk of war as if it were an event like England in 66. It’s naked propaganda. I am bored with their war crap.

  66. call me dave says:

    Got my password for the digital edition of the iScot magazine earlier. Excellent.

    Well £4.4bn tax credit cuts…that will hurt and some MPs never voted. George O is hastening Indy 2.

    But let us reduce the labour MSPs in 2016 to a rump and then take control of the Councils in 2017. By that time folk both North and South of the border will know the referendum will be nigh.

    I see Bannockburn up to 30% with BoB holding at 24%. 🙂

    Beware the evening rush as the polls are about to close on the 18th.

  67. Wuffing Dug says:

    I love cycling, Vuelta a Espana coverage was great.

    Unfortunately caught some coverage of the tour of bri, sorry England.

    I’m sure they raced over a military airfield replete with apache helicopters.

    Sabre rattling pricks.

  68. Tinto Chiel says:

    It’s going to get worse next year, Big Jock: fifty years since England won the World Cup and no doubt Cameron will be “celebrating” The Somme.

    I wish I could play the bagpipes and gave a toss about Scottish rugby. I gave that up after last year, I’m afraid.

  69. Daisy Walker says:

    RE Tam Jardines post,

    What you describe so well would be the actions of Statesmen/women, out to actually serve their government conscientiously according to their code of beliefs. Much as I disagree with them.

    What is in place are a bunch of Carpetbaggers, and now is their time to grab as much personal wealth as possible, by whatever ruthless means as possible, regardless of the cost to the people, the infrastructure, the land or the future.

    They are not capable of creating jobs or wealth, all they know to do is blame foreigners, asset strip and start wars. These are the only tactics they have in their cupboard.

    Peace to all.

  70. Cadogan Enright says:

    Bannockburn back up to 29% despite BBC’s best efforts for BoB


    IScot over £27,000 POST IT TO YES SITES ONLY 1 day to go

    BBC radio 4 just had McTeirnan on explaining why Labour Party doomed under Corbyn – does he still have a job in Labour? Apparently, If the public rejected Milliband and Balls then Corbyn and McDonald have no chance.

    Now off to Scotland again to talk to 3 Labour women to see if Scotland will now go over to Labour – BBC aided in their understanding by Labour apparachnick called Lowe. Labour supporters all agreed Labour will win back votes.

    Now over to ex safest seat in Scotland to talk to ex MP Bain who feels it could be a long raid back

    Such an excellent broadcaster

  71. Iain More says:

    I think the sight of Brit Nat politicians and the Brit Nat Press and Media gloating about the fall in the oil and gas prices and then the malicious gloating about 65,000 or so men and women losing their jobs as a result might have turned some stomachs and changed Naw voters to the dark side of yes. Well 65,000 thrown out of work was the figure quoted today by that obsequious quizzer Lewis MacDonald in the Parly today if I heard it right.

    Perhaps a lot of those Naw canutes have seen family members handed their P45s or seen their working conditions eroded etc.

    Yet that oil keeps a pumping out and the Corporate Fascist bosses and the Corporate Fascist Press and Media keeps bleating about how costs must come down further and greater efficiencies must be found and on and on and on relentlessly.

  72. The Dog Philosopher says:

    Just watching Scotland Tonight on STV. Has interesting interview with Joe Pike, author of new book Project Fear. An expose of what it was like in the No Bunker during INDY 1. Hilarious stuff!

    Catch it on Plus 1 at 11.30

  73. Iain More says:

    wellreadned says:

    15 September, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Glad you mentioned the thugs in George Square.

    When I went to bed in the morning I was deflated, defeated and had frankly given up.

    When I awoke and walked through the town getting spat upon and intimidate by wee thugs I felt, well not hate, but cold fury underpinned by a renewed determination.

    As John Lydon put it, anger is an energy and I am very, very angry.

    On Friday 19th I was gutted, depressed and inconsolable. By Saturday afternoon on the 20th after I heard about what happened in Glasgow that emptiness had turned to rage and anger. I am still angry and I will stay angry until we are Independent. I will not forgive that Naw vote.

    When I heard about the gigantic Postal vote numbers the anger only increased. Then the broken vow and the anger went up another notch that I didn’t think I had.

  74. emma mann says:


    Marie Rimmer newly elected MP who allegedly kicked someone at a Shettleson polling station on referendum day is back in court on Thursday.

  75. Tam Jardine says:


    My point was they could have given us almost nothing but come across as the saviours of the union, benevolent and compassionate. A little compromise here and a concession there. Smith Commission? Lets have it! You can have air passanger duty and we’ll just copy you when you lower it.

    The right wing of the party have a hard on for EVEL but ultimately their biggest beef is Europe and for a political animal like Cameron he could have punted it off down the way and the quaffers in the fuckin 1922 club or whatever they are called would have moved on.

    It required a politican to handle the situation politically which is the big failing. But like I say, I am perfectly happy with the way things have panned out post indy.

    I don’t thing any of the strategies I listed would have destroyed the independence movement (I don’t think I said they would?). I think Cameron had the chance to cheaply undermine it by being ever so slightly consensual and has done the opposite because he is a div

  76. heedtracker says:

    £45 bn HS2, £15 bn Cross Rail 2 for London, £19bn bn Heathrow 3rd runway, all costing Scotland billions but Scotland gets nothing out of any of these huge investments. All of it will only make England richer with modernised transport infrastructure way in advance of Scotland with massive multipliers, as red and blue tory ScotBritnats rant away at Scotland’s bigger deficit, so vote NO.

    Bettertogether for England only. Oh wait Osborne wants to splash £0.5 bn on the UKOK nuke missile dump in their Scotland region.

  77. gordoz says:

    Nice to see a certain ‘Ordinary Mum’ making another appearance for the ‘No side’ & BBC Scotland 2015 tonight amongst ‘political voices’ (for Labour) that have remained ‘engaged’ politically after the referendum 🙂

    Go Figure ? (Possible new Scotland political editor for BBC ?)

  78. galamcennalath says:

    Taranaich says:

    And don’t forget, Yes Scotland closed up shop after the referendum, while Project Fear continued unabated

    Indeed. Just think of the potential to accelerate the shift to Yes when some campaigning begins in earnest!

  79. ronnie Anderson says:

    @ BrianDTT 7.50 An no many of theim will be in George Square, there Barcelona bound for the 27th Sept. Wings Team gift to Livestream.

  80. liz says:

    O/T but just watched gamechanger on BBC with Daniel Radcliff in the main role.

    I know it was taken over or something, by the Houser bros but
    no mention of GTA being developed in Dundee.

    England, Brits mentioned a lot but then what can you expect from BBBC.

  81. CameronB Brodie says:

    call me dave
    The last time I checked, last night, Bannockburn was on 37% and heading out of site, so the link’s position was made more prominent on the English News page. I’m not sure as to the link’s prominence elsewhere.

    Well managed. 😉

  82. Onwards says:

    Kenny Ritchie says:
    15 September, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    Encouraging indeed, but another referendum should be postponed until Yes is consistently polling with 60% or more.

    Then it may never happen, and we could lose the chance forever.

    The SNP would be extremely foolish to ever put fixed poll targets in their manifesto.
    There is no guarantees they will win future Holyrood majorities, although they are popular right now. Another few decades and we may end up like Wales – with a higher proportion of residents from the rest of the UK, who are less likely to vote for independence according to the polls.

    ‘Status quo bias’ gives a big advantage to the current setup.
    There is a natural resistance to change. Remember that the YES support went from 30% to 45% when the focus was on the constitution. 45-50% is the most likely starting point next time.

    It will never be easy because Scotland will never be allowed the economic powers to compete effectively, and to potentially become wealthier than the South before independence happens.
    Scotland doesn’t have an oil fund partly for that reason.

  83. Big Jock says:

    Iain I know how you feel. No one gloats quite like a unionist,Brit or Rangers fan,when they win.

    The last laugh is on them though. All they have won is more pain and we are better than them.

    Good countries don’t want these thugs, but unionists love them. They are like the scary witless cousin the posh unionists hide in their cupboards. They are embarrassed by them but sometimes need them as a bit of grunt to intimidate the rebels.

    We will one day overcome these types. I also have a reliable source that told me Rangers were going down the toilet again. They are a flick away from this apparently.

  84. Paula Rose says:

    @ Iain Moore 10:49 – come and see me at the Wings banner in the Square on Saturday and I’ll give you a special stroke.

    btw a couple of spaces in the luggage rack of my Lagonda convertible are available for anyone wanting to go there from Aberdeen or Brechin, leave a comment on Off-topic.

  85. Phronesis says:

    UKOK’s cultural erasure has tried to remove all remnants of the YES movement’s revival of the ethics of egalitarianism- UKOK are really struggling to understand social justice because the only mantra UKOK understands is personal ambition, consumption and global markets.

    The neoliberal agenda is built on double truths-proclaiming one thing publically whilst doing something very different e.g. a declaration of the ‘free market'(without interference by government and other forces)whilst pouring billions (sourced from State assets) of pounds into failing banks- Marx would have labelled it ‘vulgar economics’.

    The problem UKOK has now is that it’s not only the neoliberal agenda that is riddled with double truths.Its daily political speak is at odds with its robotic statements on homo reciprocans. Along with an increasingly bizarre MSM, alarming messages of social exclusion and division are transmitted daily to maintain the socioeconomic hierarchy that will continue to inflict harm and indignities on all UKOK citizens (apart from the 0.1%)

    The YES movement is emboldened, resilient and strengthened-once a population is educated it cannot be re-consigned to the dunce’s corner. Irrespective of the political leanings of the UKOK leaders, Scotland is being jettisoned towards independence, it is a natural and inevitable consequence of the YES journey.

  86. Graeme Doig says:

    OT again

    Weather looking good over George Sq on Saturday 🙂

  87. Sinky says:

    Mr. abstention, a.k.a Ian Murray failed to vote against the Tory’s anti Trade Union legislation

    Employment Law is devolved to Northern Ireland. But Labour blocked it for Scotland in Smith Commission and worse still Ian Murray voted AGAINST the SNP amendment to the Scotland Bill that would have devolved employment law.

  88. G says:

    Do these polls include 16-17 year olds in their samples? And would it make much difference?

  89. Capella says:

    @ heedtracker 11 pm
    That would make an excellent billboard for scunterbunnet’s project, edited.

    £45 bn HS2, £15 bn Cross Rail 2 for London, £19bn bn Heathrow 3rd runway, all costing Scotland billions but Scotland gets nothing out of any of these huge investments. All of it will only make England richer with modernised transport infrastructure way in advance of Scotland with massive multipliers, as red and blue tory ScotBritnats rant away at Scotland’s bigger deficit, so vote NO.

    Bettertogether for England only. Oh wait Osborne wants to splash £0.5 bn on the UKOK nuke missile dump in their Scotland region.

  90. Grouse Beater says:

    I will not forgive that Naw vote.

    This might help:

  91. Capella says:

    Latest on the Best of British Battles:
    Bannockburn 30%
    Battle of Britain 24%
    Hastings 20%

    Keep up the good work. Prize is a special documentary on the winning battle. Probably hosted by Neil Oliver.

  92. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sinky says:
    15 September, 2015 at 11:36 pm

    Mr. abstention, a.k.a Ian Murray failed to vote against the Tory’s anti Trade Union legislation

    Employment Law is devolved to Northern Ireland. But Labour blocked it for Scotland in Smith Commission and worse still Ian Murray voted AGAINST the SNP amendment to the Scotland Bill that would have devolved employment law.

    Aye well is anyone really surprised Sinky?

    I mean he is following in the footsteps of Willie Bain and endorsing the Bain principle i.e. voting AGAINST anything that is supoorted or proposed by the S.N.P.

    To be honest Sinky, Murray was only doing Fluffy a wee favour. I mean Fluffy denied ALL of the S.N.P. amendments to the Scotland Bill Murray just stepped in to help his bested mate out. That’s all. Nothing to worry about. What else would you expect from a Blue Tory in Red Tory clothes? 😀

  93. Donald Paton says:

    Excellent analysis Stu.

    One minor point. “Or maybe the elderly, whose overwhelming No vote tipped the balance against their children and grandchildren, have simply started dying off already, to be replaced by a younger generation of new voters more wedded to the idea of a better future than to remembering World War 2 and Gracie Fields or whatever.”

    Maybe you should take your own advice! Undoubtedly there were many pensioners taken in by Project Fear. “Your pension isn’t safe under independence” etc. Talking as you do is hardly going to change their minds. Although not a majority in this age group I and many other pensioners voted YES. It is our job to convince people that the pension is not under threat. RUK have an obligation to pay it in any case just as they do to pensioners living in Spain. We have paid NI contributions to Westminster and they are obligated to pay it. When asked the UK government has said as much.

  94. Capella says:

    Some excellent pix from Munguin as always ( link at middle column). Specially “The Most Expensive MP in Britain” i.e. Priti Patel.

    Highlighting the corruption might be enlightening for many voters.
    Corruption is why we win (Syriana)

  95. AndyH says:

    A few years of waiting ahead.

    It’s really all about waiting on the auld anes kicking the bucket and the youngsters coming of age.

    Hopefully the British will get uncomfortable in the face of the inevitable and do one.

    I doubt the others who are more concerned about house prices and prestige motor cars will change their minds.

    Nonetheless it is coming.

    Keep the yoke.

  96. Dr Jim says:

    @ Big Jock

    Just to mention that I’m not a Rangers fan or a Celtic fan but I do enjoy watching football whoever is playing

    This Idea that all Rangers fans are against Independence is quite wrong
    Rangers have their share of Numpties but so do Celtic and lots of other teams

    There are a good section of Rangers fans who are just that Fans of their club and their team and many now support Independence just as we do
    What you wont see is them shouting it from the rooftops because they can’t for obvious reasons

    The same thing applies to a section of the Celtic support only opposite because they hope one day their team can get into the English Premier League and if we’re Independent that wont happen so they’re NO voters

    Unfortunately that’s the nature of Numpties when a football team is more important than your country

    I’m not restricting it to football either, I’ve met nurses who were NO voters, you wouldn’t think it but it’s true even though if it weren’t for the SNP 20% wouldn’t even have a job
    there’s just no accounting as to who will vote against Independence

  97. call me dave says:

    Mr Oliver has his troubles at the moment.

    Bannockburn just hit 31% but they’ll find a way!

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    Just as a thought on the oil price drop, Osborne has said that it is having a nett positive on the economy and revenues for the UK. But more to the point PriceWaterhouse Coopers reckon it would provide an average annual increase of 1% of GDP if it stays at around $50 because of the boost to the economy.

    A quick check on the HMRC disaggregated receipts for the UK regions shows that our fuel duties are rated at 8.4%, same as our population share of the UK. With Scotland’s GDP at say £130 billion, that’s an average annual growth of £1.3 billion indirectly due to the falling oil price, as an offset to the direct drop due to it.

    It’s something the Unionists would probably like us not to know.

  99. manandboy says:

    Would you believe it! Ruthie’s file has been handed over to the Crown office. I am surprised.

  100. Dorothy Bruce says:

    Varoufakis – worth watching –

  101. CameronB Brodie says:

    Transport infrastructure is the key to unlocking development potential. You can have all the investment you want in disruptive technologies and efforts aimed at developing resilient social structures, but it ain’t worth shit without being able to get to places.

    In other news, London has seen a dramatic fall in the levels of people living in multiple deprivation, over the last 20 years or so. At the same time, house prices have risen, most notably, along the path of the London Docklands Light Railway. I think the same might be true for Crossrail and the Jubilee Extension, though to a lesser extent.

    Better Together?

  102. Lenny Hartley says:

    Dr Jim, I have spend quite a bit in hospital over the past year, and in the run up to the
    referendum I was in a Glasgow Hospital for a week, I was quite surprised at the ignorance of the Nurses and others regarding the Scottish NHS . Basically most didn’t have a clue.

    I think I managed to convert my Consultant, as after several days, I said when am I getting out and he said you have another 3 days to convert my staff to YES.

    Recently I spent almost six weeks in the new Southern General ( I won’t mention its new name) and very few staff knew of the way the fantastic new facility was funded. Basically they are not interested if its PFI or the imaginative method of getting funds up front for obsolete old facilities and investing in a new facility which is probably the best in Europe.

  103. Capella says:

    @ call me dave
    ha ha!
    Brilliant. May his troubles multiply.

  104. manandboy says:

    From the Herald online.

    Just in case the Procurator Fiscal misses Ruthie’s confession.

    “Postal votes are going to be enormously important in this campaign; about 18 per cent of the vote is going to come out of postal ballots and we have had people at every sample opening, around the country, over the last few weeks, while that’s been coming in. And we’ve been incredibly encouraged by the results.”

    Later, referring to postal ballots, she said: “Different local authorities have had openings around the country”, adding, “there’s people in the room that have been sampling those ballot boxes that have been opened and have been taking tallies and the reports have been very positive for us”.

  105. Capella says:

    @ CameronB Brodie
    The Land Value Tax video covered these issues. How house prices rise along the corridor of development is interesting.

  106. Grouse Beater says:

    Basically they are not interested

    That’s very sad, but justifies Salmond’s assertion the debate was not long enough, and my own opinion that the facts were not drummed into the population in any methodical way.

    The White paper is an excellent manual guide but we needed more than that, and in small easily digestible bites.

  107. CameronB Brodie says:

    A dastardly Unionist plot is unfolding before my eyes and think Mr. Oliver may be getting set up as the tethered goat. 🙂

  108. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks for posting the Land Value Tax vid-e-o. I’ve not finished watching it (10 minutes in) but definitely looks like it shines a light on the heart of British ‘democracy’.

    One question I would ask, in general, is who has legal authority over the Corporation of the City of London, which is not subject to UK law, as I under stand things, whereas us plebs are. No spoilers please.

    One niggle with the LTV vid-e-o, so far. I’m not convinced “sustained growth” fits within the sustainability paradigm. I think we need to look for ways to satisfy society’s needs, in ways that focus more on development (the improvement of existing systems and structures – adding ‘quality’), rather than on growth. I would say that though. 😉

  109. manandboy says:

    Thank you Dorothy Bruce for the link to Yanis Varoufakis’ speech. Watching Yanis has made for a very late bedtime, but it was well worth it.

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think the Yes movement could be viewed as aiming to add quality to the way Scotland is governed. It is forward-looking and progressive, in response to the post-modern demands of a globalised society.

    Shall we let a CARGO CULT that is bound by early -Enlightenment principles, hold back the progress of a nation? In the 21st century?

  111. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Independence is a pre-requisit of achieving a sustainable future for Scotland, as I don’t see meaningful change being delivered within an increasingly right-wing UKOK plc. Narnia.

  112. Mark says:

    A plan for currency that doesn’t require us to plead with England and winning the propaganda war on pensions are both critical.

  113. K1 says:

    For anyone listening to Yannis on that link from Dorothy, I encourage you to listen on to Dianne Abbot?

    If these Labour people are all now so vocal about this anti austerity agenda that they put at the core of their leadership election. Why have they all been voting with the Tory government on all manner of issues that have been and are aimed specifically at crippling the entire social security system, health service, and more importantly are actually killing people with their consent as they voted with the government to cap the ‘welfare’ bill?

    Weren’t these members from the same party who last year vocally sided with this Tory party to undermine those of us on the Yes side, when we raged against TTIP, and warned about what was happening with NHS down south.

    Have the Labour party only just noticed what ‘neo liberalism’ is and what its aims are globally?

    I felt bemused listening to her.

    I kept thinking about Alex Salmond, and about how he has been treated by all of them for years. Being demonised by the right wing press as she says her Jeremy is going through and by ‘elements’ in his own party.

    It’s nothing to what Alex and our side has and is still going through and some of the biggest fear mongering bastards of them all are in her precious fucking Labour party along with every single rotten so called journalist, working for every single rotten rag the length and breadth of these isles.

    That man was decades ahead of all of them. And so is Nicola Sturgeon.

    People like Dianne Abbot have been lounging about on tv studio couches for fucking years pontificating in the comfort of their own well salaried bubbles, whilst all around them this assault on their fellow human beings has passed them by. Then the minute they get a wee bit a power, they’re all anti this and anti that!

    Are we fucking kidding?

    Labour can go fuck themselves. Don’t be fooled by any of it, trust what we have achieved and don’t look back ‘cept to remind oursel’s how we got here and who those bastards are that we are really fighting: the establishment.

    Labour are part of that establishment. And if they had the chance to do it all again…tell me would they? Damn fucking right they would.

    (rant over)

  114. yesindyref2 says:

    Good rant.

  115. ArtyHetty says:

    K1, Yes, good rant, well said. We have to watch closely what these people say to keep the masses in line.

    Wouldn’t trust liebour again, some of us were fooled for far too long.

  116. Oor Willie says:

    I spent yesterday morning running some numbers.

    Using the vote share of the age groups in the exit polls, the population in each age group (as per 2011) census and the death rate for each age group I think we can expect a swing of 0.4% per year.

    This is assuming that young people entering the electorate do so with the same split as the under 24 group and no-one changes their mind.

    I did not correct for rates of turnout which may increase the swing a wee bit but not that much.

  117. Luigi says:

    K1 says:
    16 September, 2015 at 3:30 am

    If these Labour people are all now so vocal about this anti austerity agenda that they put at the core of their leadership election. Why have they all been voting with the Tory government on all manner of issues that have been and are aimed specifically at crippling the entire social security system, health service, and more importantly are actually killing people with their consent as they voted with the government to cap the ‘welfare’ bill?

    Because they are selfish, career-minded opportunists. They are only in it for themselves. Nothing more.

    Weather vanes

  118. thomas says:

    @ K1

    Brilliant pal and well said.

    Nothing like the truth spoken with a bit of passion!!!

  119. lumilumi says:

    Bannockburn now on 31%
    BoB 23%
    Hastings 20%


  120. Brian Powell says:

    The on-going tragedy of Scotland: we can’t keep control of the ball, getting to the goal mouth put it over the bar, then think another foreign player will solve the problems.

  121. Katherine Perlo says:

    So instead of trying to convince pensioners why we should vote Yes, just wait for us to die off. Actually, like many other old people, I did vote Yes and campaigned for Yes, and (despite attitudes like yours) shall continue to campaign for it.

    But the estrangement I feel — not only from the independence movement, but from ageist society as a whole — may provide a hint as to why, beyond pensions and other objective concerns, old people hesitate to respond to radical campaigns which constantly celebrate their youthfulness and use ageist language with, apparently, total obliviousness and indifference to the offence it causes and the threat it implies regarding old people’s status in society and even our right to live.

    Because the elderly No vote is not the cause of the hatred being currently directed at us — in reflecting a contempt, resentment, and wish to exclude us that was already there in society, and has been there for some time, I suspect that to a significant extent it was the result.

  122. JLT says:

    Capella says:

    Keep up the good work. Prize is a special documentary on the winning battle. Probably hosted by Neil Oliver.

    LOL …we should be so lucky if it was just Neil Oliver. The BBC in their wrath would probably have the programme hosted and the ‘new’ history taught …ney …lectured by someone like Alistair Darling or Gordon Brown. Maybe even Tony Blair.

    Can picture it right now ‘…and contrary to what Scottish history books tell you; most Scots loved Edward Longshanks. They called him the ‘friend of Scots’; not the ‘hammer’. And when it came to the battle itself, then Scotland was lucky; really lucky. If it wasn’t for the flu, a really bad night’s sleep because of a hooting owl and a lack of a breakfast that ‘devastated’ the English Northern army, then Bruce would have been annihilated.
    And then there’s the new found evidence which proves that Bruce ignored the rules and one’s word when it came to battle, by cheating …yes, cheating! …because he went back on his word by… blah, blah, drone…

    Now, that would be s punishment for you from the Beeb! Yep …can just see it…

  123. Cal says:


    They’re born again socialists, BAS for short or BASterts if you prefer. The wind direction has changed and so have they. When circumstances change you change your mind. Nothing wrong with that I hear you say. But circumstances have not changed have they? Unless you mean the labour mps’ career prospects of course. Their loyalty to themselves is unwavering.

    They are the greatest bunch of dishonest BASterts this “proud nation” has ever spawned. Mr Corbyn is an exception of course as he has been a supporter of his party through thick and thin never giving up his principals, the most important of which is his loyalty to the Labour party. Yes, even as honest supporters of socialism were leaving in their droves unable to accept the changing party under Tony Blair, Mr Corbyn was guided by his greatest principal of all, loyalty to his party. That’s socialism (Labour style) for you ya BAS!

  124. Macart says:


    Yer not wrong.

    Labour haven’t changed because of one man. They are still the same party they were last year and the man who is now their leader has been an MP for that party a good long while.

    On this day of all days Labour needs to be reminded, they owe the Scottish people a debt. Corbyn is the new leader and more importantly the inheritor of his predecessors debt – the VOW.

    Only 9% of Scots believe the vow has been delivered, or is in the process of delivery. That leaves a significant number of the population waiting on what happens next? The vow was broken the day after it was made and ever since then, over the space of the following year it has been disassembled piece by piece. If the vow is then perceived by the bulk of the population not to have been delivered then that leaves us with only one conclusion.

    In short, the result of the referendum was fraudulently bought.

    I can 100% guaranfeckingtee you that independence, a fully empowered Scottish parliament and negotiations between Westminster and Holyrood would have been well underway by this point. What we have today though is a much poorer nation suffering under austerity ideology. A government causing untold pain and suffering at home and overseas with our name on the tab. Our overwhelmingly mandated representation mocked, ridiculed and ignored by our partners whilst they force their own agenda through the Scotland Bill debates. A government using the smallest of mandates yet the greater number of Westminster representatives to force unwanted or lacklustre legislation upon a ‘partner’.

    The political and meeja natives are growing restless. They know as we do the result was a fraud and they also know there will be electoral consequences. They just don’t know when and that is why project fear 2 has been pre-emptively launched. We have couch pundits, commentators and the usual sharks in suits queuing up knowing what’s coming next, what must happen when you break solemn promises to the public and undersign them. After all the media launched and carried this scam, the politicos undersigned it. They are all personally invested and involved.

    They owe the Scottish electorate and one day, hopefully not too far distant, we will be collecting on that debt.

  125. Another Union Dividend says:

    Great front page in the National this morning.

    Make sure its not hidden from view.

  126. galamcennalath says:

    Vow2 on the cards?

    “… civil servant who played a pivotal role in Whitehall’s campaign against Scottish independence has said Scotland should be offered “home rule” within the UK, to kill off continuing calls for another referendum”

    The game the Unionists always play is to devolve just enough powers to Scotland to keep us quite for a couple of years. Each time they tell the world it’s a permanent settlement, and each time it isn’t enough, doesn’t appease, and doesn’t last as a settlement.

    They must be beginning to realise they screwed up by believing they could short change us big time after their grandiose Vow 2.

    We are now entering the realms of a majority wanting Indy and nothing less will do.

  127. Sinky says:

    Quelle Surprise

    BBC GMS Radio Scotland paper review failed to mention The National front page with only 9% believing that the Vow has been delivered.

  128. galamcennalath says:

    @Another Union Dividend

    Yes, the National have handled the anniversary of the Vow nicely.

    The story claims it was an invention of Record who used Brown as a middle man to get the three amigos to sign up.

    Let’s hope TheVow is ultimately the undoing of their Union!

  129. Nana Smith says:

    O/T links. These did not post earlier, think I might have forgotten to remove the https from the youtube link.
    Sorry Rev Stu.

    Assange on Corbyn and trident at around 22.30

    We buy a new car for Queenie who ‘owns’ Scotland!

    Brutal Saudi very welcome at the arms fair in London, welcomed with open arms by the monarchy and westminster.

  130. BJ says:


    Jeremy is getting the full treatment from the establishment. Hostile media including the seriel propagandist, the BBC.

    He doesn’t want to sing, so what? It reminds me of people in North Korea who suffered if they didn’t show how heart broken they were when the unelected leader died and here in Britain you get severely criticised for not singing a song to an unelected privileged old woman.

    I would rather read that “Police Scotland have passed on “information” to the Crown Office having concluded a year-long investigation into allegations that the Tory leader in Scotland, Ruth Davidson breached electoral secrecy laws during the Scottish independence referendum.”

    Shell be okay though, she sings the National Anthem. She’ll go far in the Tory party, next safe seat in England for Wee Untruthie Ruthie perhaps ??

  131. Capella says:

    Thanks for all the fantastic links above. Once directed to the National I noticed it has an article about a Scots digital currency. Could be the answer to currency issues.

  132. One_Scot says:

    For some time now I have thought, is it possible to crush the hopes and dreams of a nation, and d’you know what, I don’t think it is.

  133. Pin says:

    Favourite post in a while 🙂

  134. Ken500 says:

    The Unionists have destroyed the Union and their own Parties. MSM are despicable.

    Wipe out the liars in 2016/17. Good riddance. 5% a year swing. Independence by 2020.

  135. Flower of Scotland says:


    Sorry! This is a plug for the Independence March in Edinburgh on Friday. 10 am from Kings Stable Road. According to the Edinburgh Evening News the World,s Media will be there, probably in the hope that few people are going.
    The Hope over Fear rally has been well publicised but the Edinburgh one doesn’t seem to be talked about so much.
    You don’t want the Media to choose the smaller rally with just a few hundred people marching as the Referendum reminder, do you?
    I know it’s not easy to get to Edinburgh so early but please do try!

  136. call me dave says:

    Sitting in the cafe (free WIFI) reading through those links thanks. Betty’s Bentley… Q of E … Love it!

    National vow story excellent!

    OH Bannockburn up to 32% BoB drops 1% 🙂

  137. Fred says:

    @ Cameron Brodie, the low-down on the City of London, a “must read” is Nicholas Shaxson’s “Treasure Islands!”


  138. Arabs for Independence says:

    O/T -Sometime around 2005 the English FA decided to rename Wembley Way. Scottish football fans inundated the FA with the nomination of ‘Jim Baxter Way’ which ended up the clear winner.

    It was renamed Olympic Way

  139. Paul says:

    BBC website papers review headline for UK: “Anthem furore dominates press”

    BBC website papers review headline for Scotland: “Labour optimism”

    They can’t help themselves, but do they think we don’t notice?

  140. scottieDog says:

    The launch for scot pound was on indy live..

  141. Nana Smith says:

    @call me dave

    The bit that cracked me up was when the salesman said “she will use it for hunting expeditions on her property” LOL

  142. The Dog Philosopher says:

    In the Schizo Sun today: they’ve printed what was supposed to be Alex Salmond’s victory speech post-referendum, if things hadn’t gone pear-shaped, that is.

    Also: anyone notice TV ads now showing for Rugby World Cup, urging us to get behind Engerland? Should we be surprised? Should we care? Better together and all that.

  143. Hobbit says:

    Well, for the moment we have a breathing-space. Let’s use it to:

    * Sort out the currency option(s) for an iScotland. Would the euro be feasible?
    * Sort out what an iScotland government would reasonably spend in a year and where it would get the money from (i.e. an indicative budget for Scotland)
    * Get a clear line from the EU as to whether we’d be welcome (or not) …

    In other words, since the devil is always in the detail, tackle it now.

  144. Nana Smith says:

    Wish your Dad a quick recovery Rev Stu

  145. TInto Chiel says:

    Thanks to K1 and Macart for improving my morning.

    I was earywigging at the football on Saturday: two Labour diehards were discussing Corbyn’s victory. Both those heads were really down! “We lost the election ‘cos we were too left wing and now we’ve put in an extreme left winger, ” said one. “Aye, we’ll no be back in for ten years,” said the other. There was then a long complaint about how bad the food is in Scottish hospitals: SNP very bad (I confess to paraphrasing a bit to ease overall communication). I’d forgotten just how right-wing SLAB really is: what will Jeremy say when he visits Scotlandshire soon?

    I was looking at that boak-inducing foatie at the top of the thread again. What a sad bunch of self-loathers. Could that be David Torrance’s long-lost wee brother in the right foreground? And Angry Murray’s behind him? Spooky! Suggests a gene-pool so shallow you couldn’t dampen waste wool with it.

  146. frogesque says:


    Will Blairites cross floor to Osborne?

    Let the blood bath commence!

  147. Marie Clark says:

    O/T sorry folks, it would appear that the Rev’s dad has had a mini stroke this morning, and is in hospital having tests done.

    Best wishes for his recovery Stu.

  148. frogesque says:

    Rev: Hope all is well. Thoughts for you and your Dad.

  149. Nana Smith says:

    Rev has posted this link on twitter so I’m putting it here.

  150. Marie Clark says:

    forgesue @ 11.00 ” Will Blairites cross the floor to Osborne?”

    It’s their natural home really. They’re hiding as red tories so it will make no difference to them really to become blue tories. All from the same mould.

    No loss to us but good fun to watch.

  151. The Man in the Jar says:

    Im loving the coverage of Corbyn and the GSTQ stooshie. Basicly I know a couple of vote naw, orange order, “Rangers” season ticket holding, Labour voting, CoS Elder types who`s heads must be exploding around now. 🙂 🙂

  152. gordoz says:

    Its official now – The Times is as bad at lying as the Daily Mail and the Telegraph.

    Proof of your lies about George Sq please.

    Abuse was all from UK/GB side for all to see (especially for those in attendance).

    Times reporting from an establishment ‘remote’ tainted WM perspective or just flat out lying if you like.

    Another Nail in GB

  153. gordoz says:

    Agree with others who’ve experienced such sad shocks as this.

    All power to you and yours Stu.
    Thoughts with you Bro’

  154. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Hobbit at 10.47

    1)The currency situation is quite simple. At the point of independence the only stable option is an agreed Sterling union. That is why it was attacked relentlessly. Because it was right. What an independent Scotland does at a later stage is another question.
    We are being drawn into another fruitless currency argument by our enemies at the moment. Whatever solution we propose would be attacked relentlessly to create fear and instability. We should understand that. The currency issue did not cost us the referendum. This is a fiction manufactured by our enemies to cause us internal disagreement and fruitless agonising. As Nicola and Alex have both pointed out the YES vote climbed during the currency debate and every informed Scot knows we can use Sterling if we like.

    2) Indicative budgets were produced for Scotland. They were blanked by the media like virtually everything else YES did. That will always be the case

    3)The EU will only talk to the member state – ie the UK -and they made that very clear during the referendum

  155. Luigi says:

    TInto Chiel says:

    16 September, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Could that be David Torrance’s long-lost wee brother in the right foreground? And Angry Murray’s behind him? Spooky! Suggests a gene-pool so shallow you couldn’t dampen waste wool with it.

    You beat me to it (Torrance)! Note that only the posh boy No Thanks Brit Nat clowns were celebrating joyfully on September 19th. The Labour betrayers were rather sheepish – maybe they knew what was coming. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Sorry to hear about Rev Stu’s dad. I wish him well and a full recovery.

  156. Luigi says:

    The Man in the Jar says:

    16 September, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Im loving the coverage of Corbyn and the GSTQ stooshie. Basicly I know a couple of vote naw, orange order, “Rangers” season ticket holding, Labour voting, CoS Elder types who`s heads must be exploding around now.

    Aye, they will be raging at old Corby for not singing the anthem. Hillarious.

  157. gordoz says:

    Come on folks – Carmichael’s defence fund is now growing !

    (No I can’t fathom people who would fund such a rogues defence either?)

    Lets counter by supporting IScot appeal for funds as per Revs post.

    A very worthy professional YES media cause.

    Appeal below

  158. heedtracker says:

    Poor old MacTenbellies

    “Other revelations in Pike’s book include the resentment towards Rob Shorthouse, Better Together’s communications director, who was paid an annual salary of £100,000 rising to £105,000, significantly more than Better Together chief Blair McDougall.”

    Hope your Dad’s ok Stu! Half hour to an hour walk everyday’s the best way to get well again.

  159. Dr Jim says:

    The Labour Party in their infinite wisdom elect a man who can’t win a General Election, that’s up to them, except the minute they elect this man they immediately moan about the fact that he wont do the same things as the guy they used to have who lost the General Election

    Then we have the Great British Murdoch Media doing exactly what they do best which is lazy bad and unimaginative journalism

    Remember when Wayne Rooney didn’t sing “The Song” utter furore ensued, (who does he think he is) they cried (no respect for Her Maj)they screamed (out spot out) until he started scoring goals, and then the sound changes to “Aye Well OK he plays good so forgiven” I know that was a bit Scottish but I don’t speak good English

    We’re lucky in Scotland over half of us know the media lie and manipulate any story to reflect the agenda they want to create so we don’t pay for their shit but in England they’re a wee bit behind so will the media destruction of Corbyn succeed with the aid of his own party

    More than likely

    Then the Labour Party can get on with electing the right and proper Media selected Leader who will lose the next General Election but in the correct manner

    Because that’s what really counts

  160. Flower of Scotland says:


    Best wishes to your Dad for a speedy recovery.

  161. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry to hear about your Dad Stu.

    I hope he recovers . I do know one thing for sure though, no matter what he is in the best place in the world for health services and support.

    Please send all our best wishes to your dad for a swift recovery.

    P.S. just a wee addendum for your dad. No more chasing Naysayers … leave that to your son he does a fantastic job! 😀

  162. Hobbit says:

    @Dave Hill
    [1] Yes, but we would be tied to rUK monetary policy as a result – be careful what you wish for.
    [2] Could you point me in the direction of an indicative budget – I haven’t located any in a while – tnx.
    [3] TNX for the clarification.

  163. cearc says:


    Best wishes for your Dad and your Ma.

  164. Tackety Beets says:

    Not a slant on the National .

    Thanks to AUD @ 8.34am for the National link

    The survey result :

    9% of Scots believe the VOW Has been kept !

    Who the F£ck are these people , 9 per F£caking % that’s about 250/300,000 people.

    WHO Are these people , they are the 9% who have been hoodwinked by MSM

    Have I had a Rip Van Winkle moment ?

    F£ck all has been delivered so far ? Please can someone post something that has been delivered as New Powers to Hollyrood. I mean NEW Powers ,not those that were already in the pipeline.

    K1 , great post & clearly you are getting a bit “p@@@@d off ” like other here.

    Keep ranting , we are with you.

  165. manandboy says:

    Please give your Dad our best wishes for a speedy recovery, Stu.

  166. Brian Powell says:

    Strange, the majority in Scotland hold the Tories responsible for what is happening now and many are aware it started with Labour in the years of Blair.

    But they are willing to stick with that because when the next big crash comes, caused by the neocons that they want to stick with, we will have the broad shoulders of the neocons to protect them!

  167. heedtracker says:

    Last week ukok meeja creep show said via Graun-

    “In a fresh row about state centralisation in Scotland, Glasgow, St Andrews, Strathclyde and Edinburgh universities have unanimously warned the measures could lead to the loss of hundreds of millions of pounds of outside funding and a collapse in university research. They describe the measures as “catastrophic”, “arbitrary” and “damaging”.

    This week ukok meeja creep show said via Independent

    “Some of the Scotland’s oldest and most respected universities stand to lose tens of millions of pounds a year under the SNP’s plans to change the way they are governed, MSPs will be told on Wednesday.”

    Wish ukok propaganda would get its story straight.

  168. Robert Peffers says:

    @manandboy says: 16 September, 2015 at 12:25 am:

    “Would you believe it! Ruthie’s file has been handed over to the Crown office. I am surprised”

    Eh! Don’t you know that the police have no options but to investigate complaints? The police investigating a complaint have no other powers than to collect evidence. They cannot decide if a crime has been committed but only to enforce the law. It is the function of the Procurators Fiscal to decide if the police collected evidence justifies further action.

    The Procurators Fiscal do not have the function to try or judge the matter – that is the function of the courts.

    Which is why the Establishment’s setting up of On-the-spot fines is actually totally against all human rights. Neither the police nor such as traffic wardens and/or local authority employees are either judges or jurors. This whole thing is counter to the independent Scottish legal system.

    Here’s an example of how English law is being allowed to scam Scots. Certain shopping precincts open to the public are owned and operated by English based companies. They lease out retail units to business’ and run the car parking within the precinct. They either have attendants or CCTV cameras to check in and out vehicles and put up notices of time restrictions on parking.

    Then they send out what looks like official parking fines for those who overstay the times set on the notices they have set up but they also threated that they will pass on any, (around £70), outstanding fines to debt collectors.

    Now here’s the thing. The Scottish courts have established that it is illegal, under Scots law, to clamp and demand money to release a clamped vehicle on private land in Scotland. The illegal act is, “Demanding Money with Menace”. Now I contend that these demands from private companies sail very close to demanding money with menace by threatening to set debt collectors upon members of the public who, under Scottish law, have legal right to roam.

    This is the kind of cynical treatment dished out to Scots by UK based companies under this corrupt Union. They just assume that the UK law has sovereignty over the legally sovereign people of Scotland and have done this for hundreds of years.

  169. Big Jock says:

    Best wishes for your dad Stu.

    As far as I am concerned my national anthem is FOS. However whether I choose to sing it, is entirely up to me. But why would a republican sing a song about saving a Queen!

    Maybe he doesn’t want to crush the rebelious Scots as he is a pacifist!

  170. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So instead of trying to convince pensioners why we should vote Yes, just wait for us to die off. Actually, like many other old people, I did vote Yes and campaigned for Yes, and (despite attitudes like yours) shall continue to campaign for it.”

    For heaven’s sake, NOBODY has ever said that ALL pensioners voted No, nor wished them dead. It’s a simple statistical fact that the upper age demographic is massively more No than any other age group, so as they DO die off the balance of public opinion is likely to shift slowly towards Yes irrespective of other issues.

  171. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just a wee heads up folks for BBC QT tomorrow night. 😉

    Elizabeth Truss Conservative environment secretary
    John McDonnell Labour’s shadow chancellor
    Alex Salmond No introduction necessary here 😛
    Sandi Toksvig comedian and presenter
    Tim Stanley Daily Telegraph columnist and leader writer

    I’m thinking there will be a lot of dead bodies floating around BBC tomorrow night after Alex Salmond is finished. 😀

  172. K1 says:

    Full on arse licking crap at PMQ’s…with digs at Corbyn’s stance on Trident, defence defence defence and not singing the anthem. and from DUP the dig is about ‘terrorists’ during the troubles, a more direct ‘smear’ about Corbyn’s out of context comments regarding ‘freedom fighters’.

    Snidey, bullish and typical BritNat hypocrisy all round. Pantomime politics disguised as ‘democratic’ process. Trolling Corbyn and Scotland all in a days work for the majority of right wing nut jobs in parliament. Tally ho!

  173. McBoxheid says:

    WRT the Scottish Daily Express front pages,
    a suitable title for a leaflet explaining pension security might be

    “Attenshun, the facts about your Penshun”

    Followed by details of who promised what and the reality of the situation.

  174. galamcennalath says:

    @Marie Clark

    It would show unusual honesty if the right of Labour were to move to the Tories. That is where they belong!

    Irrelevant to our one and only Lab MP!

    But what about MSPs? Wow, that would be a real turn up is some crossed to Ruthie’s lot. Unlikely, unfortunately.

  175. Interesting discussion on Channel 4 news last night between Matthew Paris and Will Self. Self voted for Corbin but is certain he will never become PM and that the Labour Party will split which he considers necessary.

    Paris said if Labour split the the Tories would also split (which he thought was probably necessary) with some realignment of left-leaning Tories and right-leaning Labourites (ties in with Peston’s piece linked to above). If that should happen there will be repercussion for the Scottish branches. They will be left floating somewhere between here and Pluto.

    Good wishes to your dad and family, Stu. Difficult time for all.

  176. Helena Brown says:

    Hope your Father is okay Rev, our thoughts are with you.

  177. ahundredthidiot says:

    Suggested changes to FOS

    Swap ‘proud Edwards army’ for ‘no voting tractors’


    ‘Sent them homeward to think again’ to ‘vote again’

    Too divisive? That’ll be because I am still bitter and while I will be singing MY anthem at the rugby world cup (polite version) you won’t catch me inside BT Murrayfield until we are independent – and that IS a vow!!

  178. Cactus says:

    So today is the anniversary of the Vow.. yer years up Westminster, nowt delivered. You’d think the DR and other msm papers would be running with a special Vow souvenir edition today no?

    Do we celebrate it, commemorate it, or just plain bury it?

    Here ‘lies’ the Vow (Born: 16/09/14 ~ Died: 16/09/15)
    Rust In Pieces

    Aye, movin’ on up we are.. let’s see how many more are gonna be movin’ on down into Glasgow city this weekend for the festivities.

    This is YES Glasgow’s chance to properly celebrate. If you’re coming in furra visit, you could always draw a few words on your saltires, maybes something like:

    People Make Dundee
    People Make Edinburgh
    People Make Aberdeen
    People Make Inverness
    People Make Perth
    People Make Glasgow
    People Make SCOTLAND

    Saturdays weather looking good.. don’t forget to bring a pic-nic 😉

  179. Bob Mack says:

    Hi Rev,hope all goes ok for your dad and you.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Rancid old Graun explains their The Vow fraud is a total fraud via Alun Evans, who recently left his post as director of the Scotland Office to become chief executive at the British Academy

    So head of impartial UKOK civil service thinks its all fine and dandy to say stuff like-

    “He thought the UK government was wrong to veto a third option at the referendum, which would offer Scottish voters home rule rather than full independence.

    With the benefit of hindsight, if a third option had been on the ballot paper it would’ve won a crushing victory and we wouldn’t be in the position we are at the moment,”

    So blue tory ukok veto’s devo-max 3rd option on their ballot paper, panic like the panicky idiots they are the week before 18 Sept with their historic The Vow fraud, PM Cameron says their The Vow fraud has been ukok “delivered” at PMQ’s just there, and then top ukok civil servant says it really hasn’t but it should be to just to shut down Scotland becoming a independent nation state, or as the twit says, win a crushing Bettertogether victory!

    Confused. But at least its another display of just how the ukok civil service is certainly not impartial or unbiased, or it’s owned and run by upper class tory oxbridge twits.

  181. Andrew McLean says:

    You and I have never met and I doubt we ever will, but please believe me when I say I really appreciate the time effort, and heart you put in for the greater good, and sincerely I am hoping your Dad has a speedy recovery and this worrying time is over soon!

    I agree with your comment at 12:30pm but would emphasize, the reason behind the statistical fact. Older people are more cautious, and dislike change, what has truly disgusted me to my core, is the way that natural approach of the elderly was so blatantly abused by Bitter together.

    Those disgusting people, and I include the labour party not just the statistical accounting unit that trades its filth under the heading Scottish Labour! Language to strong you may ask? then you listen to your elderly Mum and Dad, worried sick that their pension, their health care, their very home is at risk from the SNP. troops on the border, you shower of, I swore after the referendum If ever I can do a disservice to them I will, they crossed the line from political, and entered the personal whilst defending the realm.

    As I said earlier, my grandfather was a member of the forerunner of the labour party, pre first war, socialist to the core, I remember coming home from school in the 70’s and 80,s and being told of Marx and Engels, of the struggle for worker’s rights, of the army mutiny after the first world war when he refused to fight with the white russians. Corbin is a caricature of that age, class warrior my arse, he has sat on his bahookie for what 40 years in parliament with his big salary and expenses, and we just get to hear of him now! Oh look I don’t wear a tie, I don’t sing the national anthem, what is he 12 years old! Sir you are a fake! that’s why you are Labour leader, a plastic politician, for a disgraced party!

  182. One_Scot says:

    Ah, it didn’t take long, Lord Corbyn, it does have a ‘jen is sais quoi’ ring to it.

  183. James says:

    I don’t think there has been any movement in the polls since the one before the referendum that gave Yes a slight lead. The reason the vote split 55%-45% was that the No campaign got their vote out. No reason to believe there would be any change on turnout for Indy2 so actually nothing has changed over the last year.

  184. K1 says:

    Here we go a statement from May re refugee situation.

    I paraphrase:

    ‘We’re fuckin’ great, we’re better than everyone else at ‘giving’. We’ve got a new department for ‘giving’ even more cause we’re great at ‘supporting’ everyone we’ve directly harmed by our polices, but that is not what is important. ‘Cause we have ‘set up’ more groups, we’ve called one of them: ‘a gold demand team’, it sounds great ’cause it’s got the word ‘gold’ in it and that’s precious innit. We’re particularly good at that: giving more money to organisations that we ‘set up’ to look as if we are really ‘giving’ more to all those poor people that we are directly attacking.

    I’m great, I keep setting up even more organisations all over the place, to try to stop these refugees from coming here, whilst looking as if I am helping ‘the most vulnerable people’. We’re attempting to make it look as if its all ‘economic immigrants’. We are trying to get you all to buy into how fuckin’ great we are, we’re better than all other European countries at ‘giving’.

    We will block all those we’ve decided through our organised process centres from coming to ‘Britain’ especially, cause we’re committed to bombing and stealing all the assets from the various ‘war arena’s’ that we are currently involved with and rewarding all the quangos that I am now setting up to deal with the fallout from our warmongering: it’s called ‘wealth creation’. The reality is we actually don’t really give a fuck how it has affected these ‘poor souls’, but everyone made such a fuss last week, I had to put this speech together to make it look as if we do give a fuck. I’ll now mention ‘her majesty’s government’ and hope that lends what I’m withering on about some degree of levity and ‘respect’. I now feel somewhat satisfied that I’ve managed to fill up the vacuous void that exists where my heart used to be after sharing all this shit with you. I hope it makes me ‘look good’, especially in the eyes of our shareholders in UKplc.’

    And now here’s another Tory following on from May’s speech: Andy Burnham: I paraphrase: ‘essentially I’m in agreement with everything you say’. ***wrings hands*** ‘terrible terrible, vulnerable vulnerable, cost cost’. Ad nauseum.

  185. Marie Clark says:

    with reference to the article in the National about the “VOW”, it has been stated in Joe Pike’s book Better Together, that the infamous vow was conceived and drafted by the record “journalists”(didnae know they hud oanuy) in consultation wae Broon.

    Broon was approached by the paper on the 11th September, and asked to approach the three amigo’s and they signed up when the poll put YES in front.

    Now maybe I’m having a senior moment here, and somebody will help me out, but, did a certain Mr Murray Foote not claim that it was the politicians idea, and they approached him?

  186. One_Scot says:

    Corbyn is now singing like a canary. Funny how principles are easily dropped the higher up you get.

  187. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just found a couple of petitions some folks may want to have a wee gander at. 😉

  188. Andrew McLean says:

    Marie Clark @ 1.10 pm

    and put to to your post this snipet

    “Roy Greenslade, media specialist at the Telegraph (formerly the Guardian), commented: “Most tabloid newspapers – or even newspapers in general – are playthings of MI5.” Bloch and Fitzgerald, in their examination of covert UK warfare, report the editor of “one of Britain’s most distinguished journals” as believing that more than half its foreign correspondents were on the MI6 payroll. And in 1991, Richard Norton-Taylor revealed in the Guardian that 500 prominent Britons paid by the CIA (cut) included 90 journalists.”

    Vow what Vow?

  189. Andrew McLean says:


    don’t they say when a big sip sinks “funny how the scum always floats to the top?”

  190. Sinky says:

    Corbyn’s “new politics” didn’t last long.

    During campaign he said he wouldn’t use Ministerial cars now using Ministerial car.

    Two days ago he refused to sign National Anthem now he says he will sing England’s National Anthem.

    “New faces” Hilary Benn, Andy Burnham, Tom Watson and Charlie Faulkner all voted for the Iraq War and support nuclear weapons.

  191. Big Jock says:

    Anyone who thinks the polls haven’t moved to Yes since September. Need to understand the poll of polls.

    Going into the referendum the poll of polls had us at best 46% and at worst 44%. The poll of polls today is nearly 50%. Only one poll ever had us in the lead.We have had two polls showing leads and 3 with statistical ties.

    The bookies called it exactly right on the day based on the polls. We hoped they were wrong but they weren’t. The no vote has dipped and ours increased ,no doubt about it.

  192. Lesley-Anne says:

    Nice to see that this guy got a wee mention in the National today Marie. 😛

    Who can forget THAT march down Sauchiehall Street on that *ahem* glorious day last year? 😀

  193. Tinto Chiel says:

    Lesley-Anne, thanks for giving us the QT line-up. This will give Sandi Toksvig (wee pretendy satirist but really suck-up-in-chief to The Establishment) the chance to tell Alex her joke about Scottish banknotes resembling multi-coloured serviettes, much in the same way she resembles a funny and talented comedian, which is actually not at all. She rarely misses an opporchancity to stick it to The Sweaties, so I do hope she tries some of her material on Mr Salmond.

    Best wishes to you and the family, Stuart.

  194. john king says:

    call me dave say
    “OH Bannockburn up to 32% BoB drops 1% :-)”

    Jings Aa wonder hoo that happened? 😉

  195. galamcennalath says:

    The Vow … “did a certain Mr Murray Foote not claim that it was the politicians idea, and they approached him?”

    Good point. My opinion would be that the MSM were approached by BT to get them to run stories about stunning new powers. They all did. The layout, even precise wording might have been the Record’s however I reckon the general sales pitch came from BT who then literally signed off the Record’s piece.

    It would be good to get to the bottom of who did what. However, it’s safe to say they were all implicated in what has proven to be the fraud of the century.

  196. Lesley-Anne says:

    I see the BBCQT is coming from Wembly, North London tomorrow night Tinto so I hope the local Brent Park and Wembley hospitals have their A & E departments fully manned cause by the time Alex is finished with the other panellists there will be one hell of a queue waiting for treatment! 😀

  197. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella says: 16 September, 2015 at 9:45 am:

    “Thanks for all the fantastic links above. Once directed to the National I noticed it has an article about a Scots digital currency. Could be the answer to currency issues.</I?

    Let's get things right, Capella. There are, from a unionist point of view, very good reasons for the real history of Britain to be either lied about or ignored. The main reason is quite simple to make it seem the Establishment in London has full legal sovereignty over Scotland but the truth, so they say, will set you free.

    When looked at as it actually happened, and not as it is taught, the facts are indisputable and very clear.

    Before 1688 the legal system in England, Wales and Ireland was, "The divine t of Kings". Under this law the monarchy were God's delegates on Earth and they owned everything in their God Given Kingdom and that included their subjects.

    However, due to the death of the Red Comyn on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk, (not ever proven as murder as there were only the two person's present, so no proof it was not self-defence). The English Monarchy had encouraged the then International authority, (The Pope), to treat it as a murder and to excommunicate all Scotland.

    Under Devine Right an excommunicated Monarch meant their subjects were also excommunicated. This caused the Declaration of Arbroath that not only declared Scotland as independent but established that the Scottish Monarchy were NOT sovereign because the people of Scotland were sovereign. As the Pope had now fallen out with the English Monarchy the Pope ruled in favour of Scotland.

    So when, the Scottish Monarch inherited the crown of the three country kingdom of England, it was a no-brainer for the new King of England to side with England were he had divine right and leave Scotland where he did not. He spent the rest of his reign attempting to form a united Kingdom with divine right for himself.

    Ironically the law of divine right prevented him doing just as the English Monarchy had done with Wales and Ireland and just tagging the three country Kingdom of England he inherited onto his existing kingdom. So in spite of taught history there was no Union owns in 1603.

    Which was why, in 1688, when the English had their, "Glorious Revolution", and deposed the shared crown head they made only the Kingdom of England countries a, "Constitutional Monarchy", and the only two existing kingdoms remained legally independent. Thus began the Jacobite Uprisings, (taught in history as a rebellion), but the Scots couldn't rebel against a monarch not their own and William & Mary were imported by the, still independent, English Parliament. The Jacobite Uprisings spanned the Treaty of Union until 1745.

    There would have been no need for a Treaty of Union if the 1603 events had formed an actual enlarged Kingdom of Scotland as legal under divine right. So that brings us to the Treaty of Union.

    The Treaty is composed of legally binding, "Articles of Union", and both Kingdoms agreed to these conditions by signing the treaty and those conditions still stand as the sovereign people of Scotland have never signed away their legal sovereignty to Westminster.

    There were several specific conditions that should be held to and they include The independence of the Scottish Legal system; the independence of the Scottish Education system; The freedom of Scottish religions to NOT have the Monarch/parliament as head of the church and finally for the Scottish currency to be the Pound Sterling with the added condition that Scots banks retain the right to print Scottish Bank notes.

    The Treaty of Union solves any problems of a shared currency in the event of the Union breaking up. The actual legal situation is that the Treaty of union is not a union of countries. It is a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms. As such, like all bipartite unions, the Status Quo ante is a return to two legally equal partners.

    Thus all shared assets and debts are shared, (by either agreement, negotiation or court judgement). Thus the misnamed Bank of England, (nationalised in 1946), is one of those shared assets and the Treaty Conditions takes care of the Pound Sterling. The present UK stance is total claptrap and could be proven so in the international courts of Justice.

  198. Robert Peffers says:

    Best wishes to your Dad, Rev Stu. I hope he recovers well.

  199. Luigi says:

    john king says:

    16 September, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    call me dave say
    “OH Bannockburn up to 32% BoB drops 1% :-)”

    Jings Aa wonder hoo that happened?

    All together now, with your best Churchill accents:

    “Never in the field of human conflict, was so much clever Battle of BritNat planning ruined by so many wicked cybernats”. :):):)

  200. Sinky says:

    Like Frenchgate, the Vow is the London Establishment’s 21st century version of the 1924 Zinoviev letter

  201. Macart says:

    Wishing your dad a speedy recovery Rev.

  202. galamcennalath says:

    OT Carmichael’s fund raiser. Thought I’d have a look at the revised sales pitch …

    ” Not admitting he knew what his SPAD had done was a mistake that did not influence his election in Orkney and Shetland. ”

    …. that is quite an assertion! Seems completely improbable to me that hiding responsibility and declaring ignorance on TV had no influence on voting!

    There’s a simple way to test it – rerun the vote with that knowledge in the public domain.

    Even if found not guilty in the court of law, he should allow the people of Orkney and Shetland to have the final say.

  203. jacksg says:

    Angus Robertson SNP has had a run in with David Cameron at PMQ today regarding powers for Scotland.

    Meanwhile, Scottish ministers will warn later that they could block added powers for the Scottish Parliament unless the accompanying financial deal is “fair” to Scotland.

    Deputy First Minister John Swinney will tell MSPs that the present package falls far short of Scotland’s needs.

    Hope that is true as they have been playing funny buggers for too long, time for the SNP to up the anti don’t ya think.

  204. Colin Church says:

    Compare and contrast Cameron’s victory speech given and Salmond’s intended victory speech released today.

    Add the braying of the Tories to Cameron’s claim the “vow” has been delivered and it is tick, tock time.

  205. Big Jock says:

    Just shows how undemocratic these people are. Look at Murphy trying to cling on after his disaster. It’s all about the pay packet for these people. They don’t know right from wrong.

    Carmichael is a lying toad , but sees that as normal. He also thinks normal politics is to smear your way to a victory if you lose the argument.

    Not a shred of dignity.

  206. hedtracker says:

    ” Not admitting he knew what his SPAD had done was a mistake that did not influence his election in Orkney and Shetland. ”

    Influencing his election, is probably what the judges in Edinburgh are weighing up now. Andy Coulson got off with perjury in Glasgow because whatever he said under oath didn’t affect Sheridan trial outcome and it’s probably the same for Carmicheal.

    Did Fozzie leaks have any influence on his election m’lud? You can’t say either way, in law. How did you judge the outcome of an election before it takes place or after?

    Do said judges have capacity to call a re-election? No.

    So Fozzie will get off with it in court. The judges will leave it all up to voters in Orkney and Shetland 2020, Fozzie lives to fight to another day, blue Toryboys such as Fluffie breath again. The good thing is that Fozzie can’t bury this now, although Toryboys at local rag P&J have tried that.

    All Coulson really did was show you can say anything you like under oath in a Scottish court as long as it doesn’t affect the result.

  207. mumsyhugs says:

    Hi Rev – I know from personal experience it’s a hell of a shock when something bad suddenly happens to one of your ‘olds’ you’ve always thought was invincible – it sure stops you in your tracks eh? But if his son is anything to go by, he will fight back!

    Take care all of you 🙂 xxx

  208. K1 says:

    Best wishes Rev for your Dad’s speedy recovery.

  209. Nana Smith says:

    For anyone who missed Angus Robertson questioning a talking —- —- here it is.

  210. tartanarse says:

    K1 at 3.30am (3.30? bloody hell)

    You are spot on with Abbott. I can’t stick her. She tries to come across as worldly and patronising but forgets where she comes from.

    She thinks she’s been accepted because she sits next to Portillo talking shit. She merely fits the into the quota.

    Even her new (she thinks posh) accent annoys me. Sometimes she even forgets to do it. I’ve lived in England over 20 years and sound just as Dundonian as the day I left. No need to change. Quite why Diane had to change is beyond me.

    She pretends to be friendly but she is Labour like the rest.

  211. CameronB Brodie says:

    Big Jock
    Self-respect and dignity kind of go hand-in-hand. Without self-respect, it is not possible to respect those around you.

    Nelson Mandel had a lot to say about dignity and respect.


    Best wishes Rev. TNI’s are a sign you’ll need to look out for but you seem pretty clued-up. You’ve had a bit of a fleg, so I’d understand if you took the rest of the day to chill.

  212. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    From a statistical POV all you can conclude from those figures is that the issue is balanced on a knife-edge. I’m sure if you calculated the confidence intervals they’d simply straddle the break-even point. Leaving the 5%-10% of Don’t Knows holding the balance of power.

    I’m not sure that there’s really much of a trend to be seen. The figures are better than the actual referendum, but not yet good enough to warrant another one.

    OTOH it wouldn’t take very much, maybe just a single significant event or development, to nudge indy support safely over the line.

    So we sit tight for now.

    OTOH if the Scottish government is sensible it will be preparing for independence in every way it can. Laying the institutional foundations etc. although to be honest Scotland already has most of the machinery in place.

    One obvious gap though is currency, a major stumbling block during the referendum campaign. I wonder if there could be some way for the government or even some private person/body, to establish a provisional Scottish currency?

    Just a thought …

  213. Papadox says:

    Wishing your dad a speedy recovery Rev.

  214. dramfineday says:

    Best wishes for a speedy recovery to Rev senior, kindest vibes to all the family and friends.

  215. Marcia says:

    Sorry to read about your Dad’s illness, I hope he makes a very quick recovery.

  216. gordoz says:


    Looks like IScot funding has stalled at £28,261 (63%) still not a bad figure and respect to all who contributed.

    (It really is a cracking mag)

    (16hrs left)

  217. pitchfork says:

    Hope your dad makes a full and speedy recovery soon, Stu, and that the rest of your family are coping well.

  218. gus1940 says:

    Best Wishes Rev. for a full recovery for your Dad.

    I am surprised that there has been no comment on tuesday night’s STV documentary which I thought was excellent and fair.

    It set an example to PQ of how to do journalism professionally.

    Fluffy was allowed to make a complete idiot of himself as usual without any quizzing and Dugdale predictably talked bollocks.

  219. John king says:

    Are you trying to tell us something croompy?

    look at the name of the spy that gave away the leaders of the rebellion!

  220. Luigi says:

    jacksg says:
    16 September, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    Meanwhile, Scottish ministers will warn later that they could block added powers for the Scottish Parliament unless the accompanying financial deal is “fair” to Scotland.

    The SG should go Greek and put it to the Scottish people in a snap referendum:

    “Should the Scottish government accept the proposals for more powers, or should they refuse on the basis they are unworkable and not what was promised?”

    That would rattle them!

  221. Will Podmore says:

    Hobbit asked, “Would the euro be feasible?”
    Ask the Greek people …

  222. Will Podmore says:

    Hobbit asked, “Would the euro be feasible?” Ask the Greek people …

  223. ScottFitzZelda says:

    Is that picture a clip from League of Gentlemmen?

  224. liz says:

    Best wishes to your dad

  225. John king says:

    Ask the Greek people…

    ok spit it out Will

  226. yesindyref2 says:

    A detail from the datasets that go with last week’s YouGov poll:

    In hindsight, do you wish you had voted differently in the referendum last year, or do you think you voted the right way?

    I wish I had voted differently to the way I did: YES voters 1%, NO voters 5%”

    In addition, 1% of NO voters don’t know.

    Small numbers, but some proof that things have indeed moved since last September.

  227. blairtawheelie says:

    I am not a regular contributor, but I have been reading this site every day for about a year and a half. Stuart is an inspiration to all who want the best for our country. I have been through the devastation that strokes can bring to our dearest family members, so here’s to you, Stuart and Family. May your Dad have a speedy and full recovery.

  228. galamcennalath says:


    “5%” …NOs made a mistake … that’s a cracking find! Not enough publicity has been made of that one.

    That fits in perfectly with the wider evidence that we have in fact moved about 5% to Yes.

  229. CameronB Brodie says:

    The European Central Bank has to be one of the least democratic pan-national institutions on the planet. It was set up deliberately in this fashion, to ensure maximum ‘independence’ from party political pressures in Eurozone member states.

    In other words, the European Central Bank was set up to ensure it was not under the democratic control of the Eurozone public but instead, that of the cartel of international bankers running the show.

    All of the European Central Bank’s authority comes from international Treaty, so is above national law. In otherwords, Eurozone state can’t legally challenge ECB decisions.

    Joinig the Euro is akin to selling oneself into indentured service, IMO.

  230. yesindyref2 says:

    By the way, as I think SGP points out, that detail from the datatsets points the way that some people are remembering they voted YES because they wished they had voted YES, which skews the “remembered vote in referendum” weighting.

    Rejigging the YES / NO question in YouGov to remove that weighting to reflect the random sample, rather than the massaged result of 48% YES, 52% NO, I get 49.7% YES, 50.3% NO. I stand to be corrected!

  231. yesindyref2 says:

    I saw someone discuss it somewhere, maybe James Kelly, maybe Scottish_Skier who has a sound head on polls and stats. Mabye even a poster on WOS or WST, no idea. But I did check myself on the datatsets which weren’t easy to find:

  232. yesindyref2 says:

    Incidentally, having seen the only 9% think the Vow has been delivered on SGP, and posted it in Herald, I’m pleased the National made it news as well.

    I’ve been mulling it over, and come to the conclusion it’s a far more important poll finding than any of the 5 polls so far showing YES at anywhere betwen 47% adjusting for remembered referendum vote and 55% on raw data.

    Long-term (i.e. less than a year!!!) that finding has far more significance as support for Devo-Max was always around 66%. All it needs is total disappointment for, hopefully, the rest of the DM supporters to move to a YES.

  233. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    Devo-Max was always around 66%. All it needs is total disappointment for, hopefully, the rest of the DM supporters to move to a YES.

    Yes. The Vow thing is only part of a much wider picture where DM has been very popular for years. The possibility of many power devolution was always the Achilles Heel of independence.

    Hopefully we are moving into a new era where DM backers FINALLY accept it is never going to happen. They have a choice, DevoAsLittleAsPossible versus Independence. They need to choose.

    There’s a recurring theme here. WM has always delivered the absolute minimum they think is necessary to get we Scots to shut up and behave. Their problem has been that by the time they deliver the Scots have moved on and have set sights on more. WM has never caught up.

    They almost got it right when they offered DM – but they weren’t serious! If they had been serious, they might have caught up.

    Too late for DM. We Scots are moving on again, and now more and more are setting sights on the big prize!

  234. Croompenstein says:

    @john king –

    look at the name of the spy that gave away the leaders of the rebellion!

    LOL aye I noticed that john but it cannae be a relation as you are straight as an arrow… he is isn’t he Irene?

  235. Lollysmum says:

    @jacksg at 2.58pm
    Re upping the anti, if you watch the Coatbridge Public Discussion from Monday evening one of the questions was about whether Scotgov will be implementing Cameron’s Trade Union reforms in Scotland. Nicola said very clearly that there would be no co-operation from the Scottish Government if they were to be implemented. She’s beaten you to it.Watch it here:

    Looks to me as if the anti is being upped already

  236. Hobbit says:

    Will Podmore @1654 – my point precisely, when I think about it …

  237. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Just so folk don’t think I’m just being a bit “blut und boden”.

    There has been lots of work done attempting to forecast the implications of the EU’s expansion and lots of exotically named theories, as a result. I’m not sure if they have figured it out yet, as I’m 20 odd years out of date on this stuff and Europe is kind of polycentric in nature (complicated 😉 ).

    My gut feeling is that the Euro may possibly be more suited to Germany, France and Italy at present. Peripheral economies tend to function more ‘slowly’ than at the center, so will always be working hard just to keep up.

    2.1 Theory: Conceptualizing Firm and City Networks in Europe

    A Europe of Political Concepts

    In the second part of the paper we focus on the current understanding of European urban networks, which slowly emerged over the last two millennia, and rigorously developed since the late 18 th century (Lepetit, 1998, Matin, 1984). A supraregion which reflects an evolving territorial history, conflicts and marriages, feudal dominance and exploitation, trade configurations and tensions between urban and rural traditions. A complex system of nations and cities has resulted from this evolutionary process, of urban hierarchies and transport and communication networks. Castells (1993) reasons the particular historical tradition of European cities to be ‘strategically important to the next stage of urban civilization’. Therefore a further study of the European system is important, seeing that globalization is very regional in nature (Taylor & Walker, 1999), a notion recently reinforced in the study Multinational Enterprises are Regional, not Global, by Alan Rugman and Cecilia Brain (2003).

    As a rule, when studying Europe, we see an interplay between economic forces and political intervention, where cultural traditions only retard or accelerate ongoing capitalistic development processes. One significant transition is the current transformation of European nation-states, which started since the end of the Cold War. This has brought us to the contemporary process where cities articulate their local regional economies into the new global economy. Within the development of a single European market and the assumed increase in competition between European cities, several attempts have been made since the late 1980s, to map the changing economic spaces of Europe in terms of cities, with a preoccupation of defining new urban hierarchies (Taylor, Hoyler 2000). This ranging from the ‘blue banana’ of French regional planning authority DATAR (Brunet, 1989), illustrating the axis from London to Milan; the ‘European sunbelt’ from Madrid to Barcelona to Northern Italy; to ‘boomerangs’ (Gorzelak, 1996) and even the ‘red octopus’ (van der Meer, 1998).


  238. john king says:

    “he is isn’t he Irene?”

    She says yes,
    you can trust me! 🙂
    Are you going to Glasgow on saturday?

  239. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ach well, looks like that last post disappeared.

    Just in case folk think I’m just being anti-European, Europe is an unfolding landscape of multiple interconnected complexities, functioning within increasingly globalised hierarchies of interlinked complexity. I’m 20 years out of date with this stuff, so I’m not sure if they have a plan yet.

    Netscape: Europe and the Evolving World City Network

    Concluding Remarks:

    In this research we show a brief historical overview of how the physical and conceptual model of the world city network developed, with a summary of tentative conclusions at the end of part one. The empirical research in part two has engaged with a few of these conclusions, unravelling partial understandings of the present condition of the world city network.

    In this European ‘netscape’ (figure 4k), we see how communication and transport have allowed for a significant upscaling and complexifying of the core – linkage –periphery context, but also a 50% dependency on extra-European connections, in which we can say that this supraregion is currently determined by an equal share of both regional and global activities. Therefore a historical understanding of ‘long term processes’ (Castells) and the understanding of global forces ( Taylor) are both important to Europe’s future.

    These display horizontal and vertical hierarchies of connectivity. In the separate maps we indicated the different goods and information sectors, where it is also important to note that primary cities have an incremental stacking of these sectoral functions, signifying various interdependencies between these. Related to this, we have seen in the graphs, that cities have various gradations of economic profile, in which there are similar ones (likely competitors) and dissimilar ones (likely collaborators).


  240. CameronB Brodie says:

    Made a hash of that, eh? The last paragraph should start, “In the separate maps we…”.

  241. Croompenstein says:

    @john king –

    Are you going to Glasgow on saturday?

    I am planning to go john, think it’s going to be busy 🙂

  242. I’m not much into tourism, but Dayron Robles has shown me some of the island.

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