We told you so #2
Posted on
September 23, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Even we’re surprised how fast these are coming true.
Stay tuned for more. They’re on the way.
(Here are some of the times we told you so.)
Nick Clegg Signs Another Pledge
Time to pick a couple of “Don’t blame me I voted YES T-Shirt” for daughter and me.
2016
SNP
new powers not good enough,fight scottish election on a federal referendum
I spoke to Airdrie savings bank today. Apparently they are very busy.lol. Anyway they do current accounts but you must go to the branches to set one up. They are trying to sort out online banking shortly. Can I encourage everyone to move their accounts there when they can. I hate being threatened by my own bank about how I should vote. Let’s hurt these charlatans like RBS and Standard life.
Robert Louis reply. Would all those false flag operatives we have to be careful about be anonymous. How do you apologise to people without names? What is the childish point you are trying to make with the Jim Dow reference.
I thought you might have been more creative perhaps, Hamish Dhu. You say people have multiple reasons for being anonymous WOW
link to iainmacwhirter.wordpress.com
This is a good read.
link to nationalcollective.com
An Independent Republic it is. Alex Salmond for President. Cameron has just sealed the deal. Cameron is a complete and utter lying disgrace.
Bugger(the Panda)
I`m beginning to doubt that I even voted.
Ricky Duncan I would say your surname is as Scottish as my own. And a good one historically.
Regards James
Rev just tweeted:
‘A most enjoyable day with @vonny_bravo, @jackfostr and @jwdevoy. Exciting plans are afoot.’
Ooh. Excited. 🙂
Stevie boy says:
23 September, 2014 at 5:53 pm
Tv licence just cancelled and feel the better for doing so!!
Anyone else fancy it then the number is..
0300 7906092
I enjoyed telling them why I was cancelling it
===================================
Stevie Boy a good positive post. Now tell me when you phoned the BBC/Capita did you give them your name or did you just give your address and The Present Occupier?
@muttley79 says: 23 September, 2014 at 6:00 pm:
“Not really surprised that John Wilson has resigned now. It was rumoured in the aftermath of the NATO decision that he was seriously unhappy.”
He may yet be a good deal more unhappy when the next election comes round. Going by the over 50,000 new members of the SNP his chances for re-election are slim. The only problem being that whoever the SNP candidate who stands against him may struggle with Wilson drawing voters away from the SNP and letting a Labour candidate in.
@Clootie
They say time is a healer. People just need a rest. Recharge batteries etc.
RE: John Wilson, as with other List MSPs who have quit, the seat should be vacated as it was only won due to the public voting for an SNP MSP
Gets purse ready on stand-by. 😉
Agree with other regarding Lizzie the 1st. I was pretty ambivalent before, but after her interference and today’s rubbish, the entire monarchy can go swivel. I am now a republican.
Time to end her role in the opening of the Scottish Parliament.
O/T
We need some fun. Where’s Dateline Scotland when you need it?
@Robert Louis
Agreed. We need to get Briony (sp) Laing back!
A. N. Surgent
Maybe you did but it didn’t count?
bookie from hell says:
23 September, 2014 at 5:42 pm
SNP majority 1
I’d guess his vote (John Wilson) will be 99% SNP., he has just fought a campaign to win Independence so his heart is in the right place.
I’m with everyone who sees Devo Max As Stepping stone, problem is we ain’t gonna get it. Devo micro is the most we can expect.
Stuart might want to pick up the recorded conversation – Cameron with Blomberg – of how he and Queenie crowed with joy (she ‘purred’) over the vote…
That’s just three of the people the Nos decided are better to run Scotland than the people who live here.
Others witnessed are high ranking Wastemountain Labour MPs who ‘punched the air with glee’ on hearing RBS announce it too had contracted Ebola.
Anyone watching goofy Ed shouting he’s going to save the NHS. Oh my aching sides.
I see Tommy Sheridan has posted a personal view on Facebook that all Yes supporters should vote SNP in 2015 & 2016 to force another referendum, then go back to their other party preferences for after 2020. Hmmm.
Ed Miliband says
“our country nearly broke up”
He really doesnt get it does he?
WE ARE NOT A COUNTRY WE ARE A UNION OF TWO COUNTRIES YOU IDIOT!
until you get that there is no point in the union.
To be fair to Wilson, I cancelled my snp membership ages ago over NATO and joined the Greens. I also wasn’t overly enamoured with the idea of a currency union as I thought we should have our own.
That does not mean I agree with everything the party I am a member of says or does but it means I support them in general. If they took on a policy that I couldn’t stomach I’d leave them as well.
I don’t want to have politicians who always tow the party line. If that’s what you want then join the labour party. I want politicians to be free thinkers and have agreement on issues and make policy on that. Not do as they are told. If they are forced to do what they don’t believe in then they should leave the party and vote on matters on an issue by issue matter. He’ll probably still agree with most of what is put forward and vote for it but can do so with a clean conscious. What may be good for the party may not be good for your constituents and they voted for him.
In an ideal situation we’d have consensus politics and no need for parties at all but that’ll never happen.
I do believe that party whips should be abolished. We let people vote on how they wanted on gay marriage and it still passed even without support of guys like John Mason. It should be the same for everything. A budget would still be able to get through as long as it was good.
When they come up with their DevoWhatever package, I think it should be put to a referendum in Scotland and not forced on us.
If it’s a poisoned chalice, we can reject it. If it’s true DevoMax and secures all domestic spending and politics independent to London, then we will probably accept it.
A good stepping stone to independence for those of us who still want that in the future.
Oh, and to add I’ll be voting SNP for my constituency seat to oust john pentland but will vote green as my list msp to hopefully get them a seat also.
Loyalty is to the people. They are the ones you must do right by, not the party.
two-faced-labour
link to michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com
Previously I didn’t mind having the Queen as the head of state in an independent Scotland, actually to be honest I couldn’t give two shits as there were more pressing matters to deal with. But she interfered so she can fuck right off along with the rest of British establishment.
@Ann
Google “http://ivotedyes.spreadshirt.co.uk/
Excellent cause as well.Hope its of use.
Well the unionists in the Holyrood debate this afternoon were getting a bit repetitive with their 5% assumption on “the clear and settled will of the Scottish people” as they emphasised this was a final decision – “for ever” some said.
I still hold the words of Mr Salmond who claimed before and after the referendum that a large number of No voters were merely “deferred Yessers”. I can only presume he knew if Yes had won and demonstrated the robust nature of Independence that that would convert many. However, if No won – with the inevitable backlash, and now the disintegration of vows, promises and the uncoordinated debacle of three unionist leaders without a Scottish cause – Mr Salmond’s prophesy of “deferred Yessers” may be even stronger.
What must the unionists think of the spiralling numbers of SNP, Green and SSP membership.
Has the ‘S’Lab recruitment burst through the 17 high tide level of last month’s tsunami yet?
My caption for the picture ‘ Brave Dave expresses joyous amazement that so many Scots believed .his wizard wheeze’
what do you think of this ie is it a good idea to let him know what he has done
or is it to late
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
1.6 million people are going to rise out of a very short period of depression and enter a whole new phase of aspirational progress.
Exciting times ahead 🙂
If we want to become independent before all our resources have been stolen from us, we will have to turn into Spartans NOW.
Start hitting them where it hurts – their pockets.
No TV, no newspapers.
Start boycotting the likes of Tesco, Asda and Morrisons in favour of Lidl and Aldi – they don’t have a vested interest in Scotland remaining dependent.
Use any money saved to help the poorest of our society.
Do not engage with any of the MSM. Let all our work happen at the grassroots level, undetected by the MSM.
There is a minority of the elderly who have been longing for independence for a long time but the rest are British nationalists proud of the British Empire – don’t waste any time or money trying to convince them.
Also ignore the middle class – most of them will never be convinced.
Let us concentrate most of our efforts on the working class and the poor. Once we have their confidence, they will not let us down. And unlike Labour, we will never betray them.
T Jenny
Sounds good.
@galam
Great idea. Might even get the no voters away from Dr. Who long enough to take responsibility for their behaviour.
Rock
have complied.
can i still listen to radio 6, travelling folk and celtic connections?
establishment defo spooked 45% voted YES
we can only move on once Devo powers are in writing,explaining what they are
ruth Davidson nearly had a nearly had a nervous breakdown,when she said 45% ????
@Nana Smith – that was a good read by Ian McWhirter.
This could be why we have people trying to distract us with the recount.
We need to hold the three stooges to their vow – they need to give us everything we ask for or again this could make the indy ref vote null and void.
Caledonia
__________
I do my best to avoid giving monies to those who tried to scaremonger, ASDA being one of the culprits, I certainly won’t shop there.
Lidl and Aldi, doing well now in Scotland.
Just some thoughts,
We shouldn’t be trying to alienate/chastise the NO voters for all the ills that might come our way as part of the UK. That will just push them away. We should be trying to win them over and encourage them with solid ideas and a robust vision of what the future could be.
Will the Greens sell out on some their policies just to bolster a united YES party? I would think not, and why should they?
The GE is about policies and by all means let the independence issue simmer in the background but when Westminster are dishing out shitty policies we need some appealing ones as an alternative.
On currency I do believe the currency union policy let us down. What we need to do is tell people how the uk could run its monetary system differently, for example stop allowing banks to create money, have more debt free money in circulation, which is The biggest reason for inequality.Now we wouldn’t really expect the city of London to clap their hands at this, but we could offer it as a better alternative if we were to become an independent country.
What we can certainly do NOW is educate people about alternative currency and exchange methods (this is happening all over the world) and get them comfortable and up to speed with it. Surely then you would find a far less scared electorate when it comes to going it alone.
Let’s give people ideas, rather than a piece of our mind.
The debate has moved on. I think the pro indy parties must use this opportunity to talk of the benefits of having every power that indy could have delivered. The Scottish public must come out of this thinking the more powers the better and be under no illusion that unless we actually get devo max (for now) then anything else is just a sticky plaster on an open wound.
Scotland as a country should have full powers over its economy and leave say defence and foreign affairs to Westminster. With this in peoples minds it would be a good time to attack having Trident and endless wars in our name. Independence is the norm, not this messed up relationship. Oh yeah, apparently Britain is all of a sudden broken again now that the referendum is in the past. How daft are we?
Regarding an SNP name change..
Anyone know the format of the Westminster ballot papers?
Are taglines or slogans allowed after the party names?
I am thinking the SNP should campaign under:
SNP – MAXIMUM POWERS FOR SCOTLAND.
This covers all angles – Devo-max, Federalism or Independence.
Realistically, we will probably have to work towards devo-max or federalism as a first step.
30 SNP MP’s could provide the balance of power, then Scotland has some power again.
Roger,
“Re electoral fraud…Bobby Sands, an IR hunger striker, stood against an Ulster Unionist Party candidate (the seat had been Unionist held) and WON.”
What about the more recent and closer to home example of Glenrothes?
Scottie
You are dead right on the currency thing but the alternative was to point out that Sterling was going to collapse whilst an independent Scottish currency would benefit considerably.
Unfortunately, this would have turned it into (what it really has become anyway) a Scotland v England thing.
link to iii.co.uk
Interesting to note, my neighbours on either side retired here from down south. Both houses have been on the market for a year now as they intend move back south. Bet they voted no anyway.
how about the coop?
@Robert Louis says: 23 September, 2014 at 6:33 pm:
“I was pretty ambivalent before, but after her interference and today’s rubbish, the entire monarchy can go swivel. I am now a republican.”
Well, Robert Louis, I too have remained ambivalent on the subject of Monarchy but here’s a thought.
If Scotland, in view of Her Majesty’s alleged taking sides in the matter, by her Prime Minister who is also taking sides of one Kingdom against the other, were to be removed as Queen of Scots then, by default, a republic of Scotland could not remain a part of a Kingdom, united or otherwise.
If the Queen of Scots has expressed an opinion against her Scottish Kingdom can we not invoke the Declaration of Arbroath : –
“Yet if he(she) should give up what he(she) has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him(her) out as our enemy and a subverter of his(her) own rights and ours, and make some other man(woman/man) who was well able to defend us our King(queen); for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Should I now be careful as there could be a visit from afar, (London), and a little holiday in the Tower at her Majesty’s Pleasure awaiting?
Why are we still talking about SNP name change?
Have the SNP said they are going to change their name?
James Dow,
“My name is James Dow and I live in Melbourne Australia and can be easily found for anyone who wishes.”
Fortunately for you the British establishment’s secret services will not be too interested in you.
Weeks of SLAB revisionism ahead. “Country” (guess Ed means UK) is apparently broken and not better together UKOK dream. Oh, and the NHS needs saving. It not being under threat was a story only for us Scots. Independence fiscal black hole meaning austerity plus now replaced by LAB austerity super max – child benefits, pension age, misery minimum wage increase…
Far from killing the nationalist movement. In actual fact the referendum has awoken old style public engagement in the cause. During the Holyrood years the SNP concentrated on government of a devolved country. Before that it was win or bust at Westminster. Now we are back to campaign at Westminster on a ticket of independence but with a realistic chance of success. Not sure why people are concentrating on Holyrood 2016. We already have a majority. A majority at Westminster is a mandate for independence. No ifs or buts we can demand independence or declare it.
Heard today from a neighbour, the carer who had the morning shift was in tears.
She had been helping with 3 elderly people who had voted no because they had been visited by No campaigners and told they would lose their pensions with independence.
Lies and broken promises.
Better together tactics – before the vote and now we see after..
We need a clear and simple political strategy which we can explain to all reasonable people in order to remove the poison in the system.
I’ve heard it said people are splitting up and squabbling over best tack. Allow this to happen, it’s natural. We will all come together again when the call comes, for as long as we have the above situations to suffer we can not go back.
Also the trolls are back here. Someone posted that we should reveal our names and come out of the barricades. In other words we should not be afraid to stand proud. Whoever it was get to f##ck how naive do you think we are.
Then there are the concern trolls who discourage everything from joining groups,to campaigning to talking about rigged votes. They are trying to stop us and divide us. I have a feeling something is being covered up. I don’t think we are too far away from the truth. Someone somewhere will have loose tongues.
Sorry to go O.T. But i have just heard the media claim that 2 thirds of the public agree to getting involved in the the fight against Isis where the hell do they get these figures from? These so called polls should be made illegal they do not in any way represent people’s views they are a so far legal way to tell lies and distort the truth ,if they want to legitimately say 2thirds of the people support more action then the only way to do that would be through a referendum and talk about democracy a party with 1M.P. In Scotland is going to us involved in more wars he’ll mend you no voters see how feel when our young men come back wounded or in body bags
Robert Peffers says
“So you do believe that Elvis still works down the Chip shop then?”
Oh puleeeessse
Everyone knows thats true,
I’ve seen him myself! 🙂
@Rock
Glenrothes voted YES. As did Kirkcaldy so I am told.
Has Lamont resigned or just another bliddy rumour?
Charles Edward
my fear is that a lot of pensioners were intimidated in a similar manner, we will hear more as time goes on!
which is why i was outraged @ the revelations that PV’s were “sampled” weeks before polling day.
never again will i vote by post.
Re threatening pensioners etc I am sure there must be media coverage of this such as Brown on his save Britain campaign as it might be an idea to collect them as proof.
Re threatening pensioners etc I am sure there must be media coverage of this such as Brown on his save Britain campaign as it might be an idea to collect them as proof.
Rock, I don’t recall Morrisons doing much wrong although I did stay away from their doors for severalweeks after seeing my local shop covered in Union flags to promote BGT, yet no saltires for the CW games. The main bad stores were Asda and Marks&Spencers, thought the former boss of Sainsbury, Justin King, also spoke out but I wouldn’t hold that against them. I have also just discovered the joys of Lidl. Can’t get everything I want, they don’t seem to do cooking oil for example, but I haven’t been to Asda since.
Given there are so many new members John Wilson may have jumped the gun over NATO. There is nothing to say that conference might not restore the neutrality position.
Proud Cybernat,
“A question: if Scotland returns a majority of Indy Alliance MPS in May 2015 GE and they declare UDI, will the EU, NATO, UN etc recognise this as a legitimate vote?”
We won’t need to declare UDI. Scotland will become ungovernable by Westminster. They will be left with no choice but to vote for an Independence of Scotland Act.
For every election at every level from now on, independence supporters must put forward only a single candidate to avoid splitting the vote. Our opponents won’t be able to do that for their tribal reasons.
I am still looking forward to independence in March 2016.
Anyone else having problems with posting?
Rock says
“If we want to become independent before all our resources have been stolen from us, we will have to turn into Spartans NOW.”
Ahhh thats not fair
link to youtube.com
Where do I sign?
Paul Wilson
Probably the site is under a sustained attack, again.
john king says: 23 September, 2014 at 6:44 pm:
Ed Miliband says
“our country nearly broke up”
He really doesnt get it does he?
WE ARE NOT A COUNTRY WE ARE A UNION OF TWO COUNTRIES YOU IDIOT!
until you get that there is no point in the union.
Sigh! No John we are CERTAINLY NOTa Union of two countries. The title of the Union is, “The United Kingdom”, and there are only two kingdoms signatory to that Treaty Of Union. The fact is that the Kingdom of England that signed that treaty had annexed Wales as part of the Kingdom Of England in 1284 by, “The Statute of Rhuddlan”. It had also annexed as part of the Kingdom Of England, the Kingdom of Ireland in 1542 vby, “The Crown Of Ireland Act”. Which is the reason that both annexed countries did not need to sign the Treaty of Union but most certainly became part of the United Kingdom in 1706/7.
Got it now, John? K-I-N-G-D-O-M spells Kingdom and C-O-U-N-T-R-Y spells country and they mean two different things. Which is the reason the United Kingdom Parliament is a legally bipartite KINGDOM but Westminster is now also the de facto parliament of the COUNTRY of England as well as being the United Kingdom Parliament. The trouble is that it is now the Country of England that is devolving English Powers to Scotland and that’s why the whole sheebang is such a god awful mess. There can be no peace until the Country of England Parliament gets itself out of the United Kingdom Parliament and stops acting like the master race treating the other three countries like her vassal states.
Woo! At least the .scot domain names have gone live now.
Better grab wingsoverscotland.scot !
@Blair paterson
“Sorry to go O.T. But i have just heard the media claim that 2 thirds of the public agree to getting involved in the the fight against Isis where the hell do they get these figures from?”
YouGov have done a couple of laughable push/poll skewed questions on it so I would guess from there.
Much has been said about the currency and not having a bank of last resort. Why do we need a bank of last resort? We already have a multitude of well run banks (which do not create money). They are called Credit Unions. Remove some of the restrictions on them such as the maximum amount we can hold in them and open up membership to a much wider membership. Then let the banks threaten, bluster and move their brass plates!
Time to remind everyone . . we don’t live in a Democracy . . we live in a MONARCHY . . look it up in a dictionary, not far removed from DICTATORSHIP look it up too. Monarchs power in Britain has been usurped by parliament but we are still a Monarchy.
@Gallowglass.
Probably too late to consider changing names at this point, despite the ‘nationalist’ problem.
But we need an inclusive slogan at least, describing what the purpose of the SNP is, and making it appeal to as many voters as possible.
As Tommy Sheridan is urging – Rally around the SNP and don’t split the vote.
MAXIMUM POWERS FOR SCOTLAND –
as a slogan or tagline, is inclusive, and covers both those who want to see the SNP focus on gaining Devo-max OR independence.
Unionist parties are going to try and avoid genuine Devo-Max, as it is too close to independence.
But limited devolution powers are going to leave lots of No voters unhappy that they were conned.
BIG problem for London parties over this issue.
Robert Peffers says
Should I now be careful as there could be a visit from afar, (London), and a little holiday in the Tower at her Majesty’s Pleasure awaiting?
Dont worry Robert,
theres a lift. 🙂
Cameron’s quip about suing the pollsters tongue in cheek. Closer to the truth than his jest suggests!
link to snp.org
Can someone let me know where the result breakdown to individual towns can be viewed ?
John you never know with these Bastards!
TIt for tat 1 SNP seat to replace 1 Labour seat pick your people lets get started.
link to thebutterflyrebellion.org
Is there a protest against this sort of thing in Glasgow on Saturday at noon?
(With apologies to Doug Daniel and Margo)
There is no point in the SNP changing it’s name now. It did not stop them winning a landslide in 2011. People are not daft – they know what the SNP is all about.
Besides, the MSM would have a field day – the new party would be portrayed as hiding something, and it would still labelled as a nasty nat seperatist anyway.
People are getting used to voting for (and now joining) the SNP – if it ain’t broke……..
link to youtube.com
The constitutional aims of the SNP are:
(a) Independence for Scotland…
(b) the furtherance of all Scottish interests.
There doesn’t seem to be any reason not to discuss more powers with Lord Smith. The fun will start when the powers begin to be watered down and there’s calls for the SNP to walk away.
Harry McAye says
“Rock, I don’t recall Morrisons doing much wrong although I did stay away from their doors for severalweeks after seeing my local shop covered in Union flags to promote BGT, yet no saltires for the CW games”
Add to that pumping out at full blast Four Lions followed by Vindaloo and you get a true loyalist company who were dimented with my wife who plastered YES stickers over everything that had a union flag on it and left “aye right”leaflets everywhere, she had her own security guard assigned to her everytime we went in! 🙂
Wondering if anyone can clarify about the protest at Scottish Parliament this weekend. Is it Saturday or sunday and what time? There seems to be mixed messages as heard from others in work its sunday but read earlier today that its Saturday.
Really good news to hear of the upsurge in membership of the 3 supporting independence parties especially the amazing figures from the snp. After that result we badly needed some kind of good news. Aiming to join the snp myself come end of the week.
Same old BBC
link to bbc.co.uk
Basically why bother joining a political party (wonder why the subject came up now) one quote saying “Party membership as a whole remains a minority pursuit”
Parliamentary Monarchy like the French call their “democracy” a Presidential Monarchy,
Robert Peffers,
You make a good point. Lizzie is our monarch in Scotland only for as long as we wish her to be so, and no longer.
You see we tried to be nice, and said that if we become independent we’d keep her as monarch, but not now. next time, the interfering monarch goes too – though she can stay on as Queen of England or whatever, if she wants. Maybe we should do it sooner.
Mwah hahahaha, ha ha mwahahahaha. etc..etc..
p.s. Is that treason? 🙂
If you tweet to any ‘British Labour Party in Scotland’ members please use the hashtag #thep45
Real call to the queen:” Your Majesty its Dave here.” ..”Good news one hopes.”……” Oh excellent your Caledonian slaves are back in their slums your majesty.”…..” Thank fuck I thought agent eyebrows had lost it ..tell him to fuck any chance of a knighthood.” …” Now 2015 make sure you don’t let that slurry stooge Milliband chappy into number 10 or its a concrete coffin at the bottom of the Thames…puuuurrrrrr!”
Good to see postings now so upbeat and discussing where and how to fo from here. SNP membership 53,695 and rising.
I wonder, being the main Independence party, if the SNP shouldn’t have some sort of associate membership non-SNP people can join to show support for the main aim, Independence?
Something like “Friends of SNP” but better, maybe “YES for SNP”?
I agree with others, the SNP has no need to change name. Those who link it with nazism and other bad things would do the same, no matter what its name was.
The name isn’t the problem, lying toadie Labour unionists are.
Well I never thought I’d see the day – my Wife just joined the SNP. For someone who wasn’t even the slightest bit interested in politics in any way, shape or form this is unbelievable. There are clearly others getting involved and showing their support – we MUST keep this going.
Been reading some posts on here to go for DevoMax – I didn’t join the SNP or vote Yes because I was happy to accept 2nd best – we’ve had 2nd best for far too long and 45% is just the beginning – pro Independence parties will have a massive majority in Scotland in GE 2015, but we’ll have a tory/ukipnutter coalition in Westminster – that’s going to work then?
By the Scottish Parliament elections in 2016 those who voted no will have woken up and realised they’ve been sold a pup. Do you think they’ll be voting “labour” then?
I don’t often disagree with AS but Independence won’t be off the agenda for a generation – it’ll be here sooner than he thinks.
Unfortunately living in a democracy entitles eejits to vote to maintain the elitist monarchy and for the rich to bleed Scotland dry. If only everyone had the intelligence we had ………!
@bookie from hell says: 23 September, 2014 at 7:14 pm:
“Establishment defo spooked 45% voted YES”
Keep up the spooking. As Cameron has broken protocol by blabbing that the Queen has come out in favour of NO then Scots have a legitimate reason to say they want to be a republic. We cannot be a republic and part of a Kingdom too. So if we make enough noise about it then either Dave has to say he lied or the Queen has to say Cameron lied and Her Majesty is not going to break protocol.
We cannot lose by this tactic but either Dave or Liz must come clean. If neither do we can go on stirring up republicanism and get independence that way. Cameron has talked himself and Westminster unionists into a corner with this. Are we going to let him and them off the hook?
@Luigi
I agree with you over the SNP’s name. I really don’t see what difference a name change would make at this time. I know there was talk at various times about a name change; think Salmond once said that there was a debate over changing the National to Independence. However, they got us to a referendum on indy. We need to change Scotland not change the name of the SNP imo. It is how you do it that is the question we need to find answers to.
I would be wary of those claiming that they voted naw on the promise of more powers.
Anyone who believes a word uttered by G Brown is either gullible or stupid.
I suspect a few are having regrets because they know they let down their nation. They are coming up with that excuse to hide their guilt. It is to be fair, not the daftest excuse I’ve heard, but it is only an excuse and nothing else. I do hope they are racked by that guilt until they shuffle off to wherever it is that those sae base as be a slave go for eternity.
labour now agree the NHS is under threat and even pledge(spit) to repeal the health and social care act.
wow! have they only just realized what we have been telling them for over 3yrs now.
talk about totally out of touch with human emotions and needs.
they couldn’t peel an orange without an instruction manual.
From reading the articles that were linked to above optimism is on the rise because all of the unionist parties are the ones now under scrutiny we are living in very interesting times.
I always said to my fiends who were NO voters that labour would use many of the arguments put forward by the YES campaign against the Tories in the run up to the GE
I think 30% of people voted no because they are not interested in anything changing! The other 15% we can work on. The 30% won’t care if nothing happens. Its back to football and 90 minute Disneyland patriotism for the 30%. Incidently I will never support Scotland again until we are independent.I hate pretending and football has lost its appeal to me.
Our major difficulty now, as during the referendum campaign is the media. Who is going to nail Cameron, Miliband and Clegg or their 3 representatives up here to the wall? Who is going to take Gordon Brown, the golden bull of the BBC apart for lying to the electorate on pledges guaranteed to be voted for by 3 signatory MPS?
If not a single journalist could or would touch Brown during the campaign, what chance this ‘retired on full salary’ politician will be challenged today?
Who will scream about the Barnet Formula being altered despite an explicit promise to retain it?
Who will rail against Scottish MPs’ status being downgraded despite an explicit promise that it would not.
And who will rip the party leaders a new one when the ‘more powers’ baws gets kicked into the long grass?
No-one. Not David Torrance for all his quotation marks. Not Paul Hutcheon with his character assassinations (and who incidentally showed remarkable spite and zero humour at poor David being humiliated by our FM today).
Not Andrew Neil who, I am sure is relieved to have moved on from the Scottish question. And certainly not Nick Robinson, surely the most petulant and unprofessional journalist I have witnessed.
None will change. We need control of broadcasting in Scotland and the SNP should push hard for this. And we need a new press – not simply pro indy press but independent also. Let’s see how the land lies over the next few weeks. I honestly see no point in contesting another referendum without either one of the 2 mentioned being in place.
When the government is not held to account but instead is enforced by a compliant press and state broadcaster you are no longer living in a democracy.
BBC Scotland are habitual liars.
I avoid anything to do with BBC as they really are the lowest of the low.
@Bugger
Has Lamont resigned or just another bliddy rumour?
Hope not. Stairheid has not completed her job of demolishing SLAB yet.
link to thebutterflyrebellion.org
anyone else seen this ?
link to theguardian.com
Crash Gordon’s in NY too makes me proud to be British. Thanks so much Naw thanks
@Gallowglass says: 23 September, 2014 at 7:28 pm:
“Why are we still talking about SNP name change?”
Nah! Gallowglass – it’s just some numptie cannot read and thinks the, “N”, in SNP stood for, “Nationalist”.
Either that or they didn’t know that, “National Party”, meant it was the party of the Scottish Nation.
It is laughable that these numpties attempt to make out that Scottish Nationalism is bad but they seem to think that United Kingdom Nationalism is good but they are so damned nationalistic the clain it as British Nationalism when there is no such thing as a British Nation. Witness doppy Dave claiming he is the British Prime Minister. Try telling that to a Republic of Ireland citizen or someone from the two Channal Island BNailiwicks or the Isle of Man.
Sit back and watch them make an ar5e of it – we’re not going away:-)
link to scotsman.com
@Panda:
Yep, that’s right. It’s democracy, but our president is much like a king. It cannot even be charged for whatever motive during his term. That’s ridiculous, and more and more people are pushing towards a new constitution that would somehow shake up all this. The only solace is that we can push him out every five years (it was seven not so far ago).
I read on one of our French newspaper that Cameron called the Queen and the PM said “she purred on the phone when she learned it was no”. Is that correct?
I like the comment we didn’t lose we came second.
link to youtube.com has anyone seen this yet,
Maybe we should invite the true royal line of the Stewarts back?
The begging continues….
Nana Smith,
The stakes are incredibly high in this election, but nowhere more than for our NHS.
As prime minister, I will invest an extra £2.5 billion in our NHS — enough to hire tens of thousands more frontline staff and create an NHS with time to care.
We’ve costed this out — and we won’t borrow a penny to do it.
Our new NHS time-to-care fund will be financed with money raised from tobacco companies, from closing tax avoidance loopholes, and from a tax on houses worth more than £2 million.
If you want a government dedicated to our NHS — one committed to transforming it into a world-class 21st century health and care service — we need your help to win this election.
Nana Smith — will you take the next step and join Labour? It costs from just £1.92 a month:
Nana Smith, it is time to care about our NHS.
We need a truly integrated service — for physical health, mental health and care for the elderly.
We need doctors, nurses, care workers, midwives able to spend proper time with us, not to be rushed off their feet.
Our new, £2.5 billion time-to-care fund will give our NHS:
• 3,000 more midwives
• 5,000 more homecare workers
• 8,000 more GPs
• 20,000 more nurses
Our NHS is sliding backwards under this government — it is not safe in their hands. Just think what it would look like after another five years of their privatisation and fragmentation.
We built the NHS. We saved the NHS. We will repeal the Tories’ Health and Social Care Bill and we will transform the NHS for the future.
You can help us achieve this, Nana Smith. Join Labour now to help get our NHS back in safe hands:
Thanks,
Ed
Couldn’t agree more. It’s Scotland we need to change and not that much of it. The SNP is a totally recognisable name that is still getting people signing up !
SNP over 54,000 now.
For 2 years or more I’ve been able to post in reply to “you Nats”, that “I’m not a member of a political party, neer have been, and it’s unlikely that I ever will be. But I support Independence”.
Well, even though I think the SNP is a bit precious, a bit puritan in interfering too much in personal lives (smoking ban!!!!), I’m neutral on Trident and basically apolitical, I’m thinking of joining …
muttley79
I wince whenever I hear the term ‘nationalist’ used to describe SNP supporters or Yes campaigners. I would be against changing the name but it would be good to have this addressed.
I have been a member for many years now but think of myself as a Scottish European, a bleedin internationalist.
Worst of all I find the term nationalist used by the media as a default, by the labour party who now, to their eternal shame hate us much more than their friends in the conservative party, and even by SNP people themselves.
As the Conservatives have found, changing their name has done nothing to change their handle so I doubt changing the name of the SNP would make too much difference.
I would like to see the term challenged as it is used as a negative description when the opposite is true of this inclusive and progressive, multicultural party.
Does anyone know if there are any statistics on the breakdown of how people voted by religion? I am posting from Northern Ireland. I was 200 per cent in favour of ‘yes’. I am so disappointed for all my Scottish friends. I was planning to fly from Belfast to Edinburgh on Friday night to witness an historic occasion and to join in the celebrations. In the end, I was too gutted to go. One of the reasons I so admired the ‘yes’ movement was how they managed to attract support from both sides of the religious divide. This simply doesn’t happen in Northern Ireland. Although from the catholic/nationalist community in rural Northern Ireland, I have many friends from the protestant/unionist community, some even in the Orange Order. I can live with the fact that they were nearly all ‘no’ supporters.Its what I expect of them and I don’t have any real animosity towards them because of it. But, what I find impossible to forgive is those politicians and journalists from an Irish catholic/nationalist background like Jim Murphy, John McTernan, George Galloway, Kevin Toolis who turned out to be such ardent British nationalists, aligning themselves with the BNP/Orange Order/National Front types, who actually hate their guts. I consider these people to be total ("Tractor" - Ed)s, both to Scotland and to their Irish heritage. I absolutely loathe them. I also found it ironic that the lies of the ‘no’ campaign convinced so many that Scotland couldn’t manage to run a successful economy on its own when, on the very day of the referendum, Ireland, which doesn’t have a drop of oil, published its GDP figures showing annual growth at 7.7 per cent, the highest in the EU. Scotland, with its greater natural resources, could achieve that on its own too. Please don’t give up the struggle. Scotland is a great nation and its day will come, and much sooner than many think.
So Her Maj Liz is an effin’ unionist. Who knew?
@Big Jock
I felt that way about the national team for a few hours after our defeat but I’m gonna get me a saltire 45 printed. I really hope we can turn the national team into an independent Scotland team i.e. the national team is for those who voted 45 and for those who want to join the 45 and make it 55, 65, whatever. Having our own football team, I believe has done no harm to Scotland maintaining a separate identity.
Why are the SNP getting involved in the Devo Con talks. Surely they should keep clear so as not to give the impression that they agree with the unionist parties on the “powers” coming our way.
Never watched it before, but anyone think that the evil sneaky bastard current!y on river city is dougie Alexander’s double…just saying like .
@Big Jock says: 23 September, 2014 at 7:32 pm:
“Now we are back to campaign at Westminster on a ticket of independence but with a realistic chance of success. Not sure why people are concentrating on Holyrood 2016.
Big Jock, the idea of fighting for more of a majority is to wipe out the Scottish department of the London Labour Part and reclaim the last tory and LibDem MSPs at Holyrood. Think of a combined Holyrood of SNP, Green and SSP with no Tory or Labour MSPs. Then to gain as many of those 59 Westminster as we can manage.
Just where will those decamped Westminster BIG BEASTS go if we own the seats at Holyrood? Think what it will do to the Labour and Tory councils? Now I have no wish to have a one party state but with Greens & SSP it wouldn’t be and there would be a realignment anyway.
Can any of you think WHY the MSM would report on that story about the Queen?
To damage HER?
To damage HIM?
Because its their duty to report the news with out fear or favor?
OR
To sow the seeds of division because the movement has not gone back in the box?
Remember they not off the hook yet, and the divide has not totally fallen out of fashion,one of the least talked about parts of “THE VOW”is removing the power to dissolve Holyrood and return rule direct from London.
I could be wrong but I think they also have form on this.
One thing they could never do was to incite YES to get violent.
But a lot of our cheated young people are angry.
I am hoping that some leadership emerges soon but meanwhile can we at least here,keep reminding ourselves and everyone else the Queen is a non issue for a people who are only trying to choose the best way to run the Country.
AuldA
I believe that Sky have a recording and / or was overheard talking to the Mayor of NY.
Well said Christine Grahame. Calling out the Unionist for scaring the elderly.
link to facebook.com
“Time is on the side of those who favour independence and I can’t see the desire change ebbing away.”
Dr Qvortrup in Scotsman.
And so say all of us. But not too much time … 1-2 years.
OAPs of Scotland!
When will we see yer like again?
Were fraught and cried for
Yer wee bit bills and yen.
And stood against them.
Against Who?!
Our Foodbank Army!
And sent them homewards,
To starve again.
Any Scottish national team that continues to use FOS as its anthem
is open to ridicule and frankly pathetic. I would rather there was
just 3 mins of silence.
Calgacus says:
Maybe we should invite the true royal line of the Stewarts back?
Maybe not. They were Unionists!
I’m going to make a wee prediction here.
I don’t think even with the opinion polls, that the media expected a 45% YES vote. I also think they realise that a good 25% of that 55% NO vote was fooled by the more powers vow that fell apart in 5 hours flat. Giving a natural majority for YES of 59% to 41% NO.
It might be worth watching the media in Scotland for a change in heart, and indeed, encouraging it.
SNP could simply change their name from the Scottish National Party to the Scottish Nation Party.
Regarding Sheridan’s call to get behind the SNP at the upcoming General Election, it’ll be interesting to see how other parties react.
This is the kind of scenario the British Secret Services are in place to combat: to limit the momentum of any threat to the British state. It may be worth watching closely the messages coming from figures in the pro-indy parties, especially the Greens and SSP. Anyone resisting the idea, even though it makes perfect sense, will be quite interesting, I reckon.
I’m certainly not saying major figures in these parties are MI5 plants, but there will undoubtedly be some in all these parties. Every “awkward” political movement in the UK will have them: that’s simply a fact.
Yes, you’re right, saw that elsewhere.
Well, that was all but a scoop anyway.
I wonder how many Yes supporters would also opt for a Republic like the Irish did.
And maybe transfer the royal properties to the future Scottish state?
Who said:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.”
M.K. Gandhi of course. And where is it written down?
It’s on the Wings homepage.
Gandhi was in the INC – Indian NATIONAL Congress. They were the party that was at the forefront of the Indian struggle for independence.
I don’t think the SNP needs to change its name, it’s a perfectly good one, we just need to fight under its banner and win.
I’m quite happy to hold the crown jewels if there’s a vacancy on the throne.
Max Keiser on how Scots lost tons of cash by voting ‘NO’ to independence and made a horrible decision in voting no.
link to youtube.com
Just came in after a very pleasant evening with my daughter and grand daughter. Both are on fire and have joined the SNP and want to get involved in the new Independence front which is opening up, Indy45 or whatever. Come on here only to find that an MSP has left the SNP because he doesn’t agree with it’s stand on NATO. WHIT?
Well what an exercise in ego. The SNP membership is soaring, the pulse of the independence movement is beating strong and true and this crass self publicist wants to pee in the bath.
Look at ME, ME, everybody notice ME. Well John, enjoy your 5 minutes of fame and much good may it dae ye.
There are two people who have, arguably, done more damage to Scotland in recent times, than anyone else.
Do I mean Brown and Darling ? – No.
Do I mean Cameron and Osborne ? – No.
Do I mean Danny & Dougie Alexander ? – No
Is it perhaps Johann Lamont & Ruth Davidson ? – No
Well, I hear you say, WT* is it then ?
It’s KEN MCQUARRIE & JOHN BOOTHMAN at BBC Scotland, Pacific Quay.
Their Identities and activities are hidden behind the curtain of brand BBC.
It is time to remove the cloak of invisibility protecting these two men
who have singlehandedly x 2 and by foul means,
destroyed the hopes of so many
while trampling on Scotland’s right to self determination.
link to bbc.co.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
link to newsnetscotland.scot
Down with the monarchy. A dysfunctional family living on benefits.
Joe that Butterfly story is breathtaking. Surely something has to be investigated. These guys have really done their homework! What could Cameron have done to secure the Shetlands after a yes vote though?
The Scottish Republican Party sounds more suitable.
Balaaargh,
“@Rock
Glenrothes voted YES. As did Kirkcaldy so I am told.”
I was referring to the rigged by-election some time back, in response to Roger’s comment.
Re John from the North of Ireland.
Thanks pal for your words of encouragement. We haven’t lost, it’s just a temporary setback. We will prevail. Congratulations on the 7.7% rate of growth in the Republic.
Harry McAye,
“Rock, I don’t recall Morrisons doing much wrong”
Morrisons had suggested higher prices long before Asda.
@STARLAW says: 23 September, 2014 at 7:55 pm:
Well actually we are not either a democracy nor are we a Monocracy.
Check out your history.
England who had annexed, Walse and Ireland had the, “Glorious Revolution”, in 1688 and deposed the monarchy of England and importeed William and Mary of Orange but removed from them the Royal veto over Parliament. So the three country of England is Constitutional monarchy. However as Scotland & England were both independent until 1707 the English Parliament could not depose a Scottish Monarch. Thgis was the reason for the Jacobite uprisings, (1688 -1745). In 1320 the Scots declaration of independence made the people of Scotland sovereign and made their monarchy the defenders of the people’s sovereignty and that is the basis of the independent Scottish legal system. After 1707 the Treaty of union explicitly keeps the Scottish Legal system independent and the 1798 Claim of Right ratifies that fact. Scotland is not part of a Constitutional monarchy. In fact Scots law says a monarch who does NOT support Scotland can be sacked by the people and Cameron has just claimed Her Majesty has taken sides against Scotland. He claims she purred at the news the independence referendum had been won by Westminster. Scotland could legally sach her and become a republic and a republic cannot be part of a United Kingdom.
Objects viewable from space: Great Wall of China, Kennecott Copper Mine, Greenhouses of Almería and the post-indyref membership of the SNP. 🙂
The Scottish rugby team should not be allowed to play the national anthem of Scotland. So many Scottish rugby heroes said vote No and I am not aware of many or any saying Yes
IcySpark
hear hear well said christine, she told the bastards.
Harry McAye,
“I have also just discovered the joys of Lidl. Can’t get everything I want, they don’t seem to do cooking oil”
Yes, they do – I buy mine there!
I think the SNP should get involved in the talks. They should get quotes from the campaign of every party who said they were offering “devomax” which must be them all. “Devomax” is everything except foreign affairs and defence. Devomax is what the SNP ask for and anything less is the Unionist parties reneging.
Hi All
Have you seen tweet from Laura Kuensberg (reporter)on SNP website.Click on Join conversation. She says a private poll for the tories caused the panic & showed YES at 53%.
Also article on Newsnet Scotland-leader of No campaign admits & justifies fear campaign
And SNP now 29,000-bloody fantastic
Joe
Yes link has been posted already but thanks for that.
Interesting read and if someone is following this up in a systematic way and with legal back up i’m delighted.
The british establishment is a dangerous machine and they had too much to lose. At the moment i don’t think we can pin too much on this but, i for one , don’t doubt their ability to have cheated us out of independence.
Anyone involved in this would need to be very careful i would suggest.
Cameron, Miliband and Co will continue to crap all over Scotland until Scottish voters are successful in ridding Scotland of all Westminster Unionist MP’s in May 2015
It seems irrelevant posturing for John Wilson MSP to resign over NATO when there is now no realistic prospect of Scotland being in a position to join NATO for some years to come. Surely he could have continued to park his concerns aside until such time as NATO membership becomes a possibility again?
Well….it’s a first for me….now a member of the SNP….it has a certain rhyming charm don’t you think? ????
Rock, having phoned home to the wife tonight, she did her first shop in Aldi and Lidl today, she said it was alright and a helluva lot cheaper.
Alba spark, that’s me just joined up tonight also, I would say I’m about the twentieth to join off this rig since Friday!!
liz g says:
23 September, 2014 at 8:57 pm
“Can any of you think WHY the MSM would report on that story about the Queen?
To sow the seeds of division because the movement has not gone back in the box?
Remember they not off the hook yet, and the divide has not totally fallen out of fashion,one of the least talked about parts of “THE VOW”is removing the power to dissolve Holyrood and return rule direct from London.
I could be wrong but I think they also have form on this.
One thing they could never do was to incite YES to get violent.
But a lot of our cheated young people are angry”.
I think liz g makes a good point, and one which I think might be spot on. I think the queen’s remark if it was made at all, was leaked deliberately to inform and provoke.
It’s purpose is to unite the no voters and form opinion outside of the growing YES battalions. They are trying to provoke a reaction from the YES voters, and for them to become outspoken against the queen.
Westminster is reacting to what is underway in Scotland and trying to gain support through the monarch from no camp. How else can they get amongst us?
They cannot speak to us directly, so they use stealth tactics. Stand by for infiltration next.
Some good points were made on here recently about getting the head down and getting on with basic campaigning without being distracted. I think that’s a great way to make real progress.
Westminster is predictable.
The SNP shouldn’t get involved in Devo-Max talks, but the Scottish Government should of course. The line needs to be drawn clearly between the two.
Morrisons said prices could go up – or prices could go down. The media just reported the first part.
Flower of Scotland should go as the anthem. It’s hypocritical now for NO voters who were given the chance, and those of us who voted YES – I can’t even think of it. It’s onwards or upwards, and a more uplifting anthem is needed for YES as well as for Scotland.
Absolutely no need for the SNP to change its name.
Also I do not like the idea of the SNP getting involved in any negotiations over the ‘Devo’ scam.
Let the unionists provide their ‘Devo’. The SNP (and W o S) can then expose it as the fraud that it no doubt will be.
Aye no need to worry about frightening the horses or keeping the ludge onside. Scottish Republican Party sounds good to me.
Paula Rose as first lady perhaps?
@john king says: 23 September, 2014 at 7:58 pm:
“Dont worry Robert,
theres a lift.”
Just as well as I’m a bit disabled. I hope no one thinks I’m just, “Raven”.
Hey Rock. please dont dismiss all middle class as no voters. I am lucky to be well off and have used my money to help fund the yes campaign as well as helping fund homeless shelters etc.
there is a place for business in any society, we just to make sure there is a real living wage below which we will not allow.
EBC SCOTLANDSHIRE has to be tackled as a priority. It’s like the elephant in the room. Westminster propaganda broadcast into every home in the land unchallenged and with lies and deceit as it’s core values
IT HAS TO GO ASAP.
PLEASE SIGN NEWSNET SCOTLAND CURRENT PETITION TO DEVOLVE BBC TO SCOTLAND.
yesindyref2 says:
23 September, 2014 at 9:06 pm
I’m going to make a wee prediction here.
I don’t think even with the opinion polls, that the media expected a 45% YES vote. I also think they realise that a good 25% of that 55% NO vote was fooled by the more powers vow that fell apart in 5 hours flat. Giving a natural majority for YES of 59% to 41% NO.
It might be worth watching the media in Scotland for a change in heart, and indeed, encouraging it
I believe that YES did briefly go over 50%, but it was a very soft YES and soon melted away when the three stooges made their vow. I think now, a few months before the GE, is an ideal time to consolidate the 45% YES that we achieved on the 18th. It is no good achieving this high point, if YES sinks back to 30% core again. We have to harden these new supporters of independence and grow the core support.
My gut feeling is that, thanks to the behaviour of BT MSM, hard core support for independence is now about 40%. This is likely to rise to 45% as it becomes clear that the vow is not worth the paper it was written on. We need to increase hard YES to 50% before the next serious challenge to the establishment is made, in order to have success next time.
Liz the last here’s yir p45+
@Robin Ross, aye you’re right enough, they weren’t the brightest sparks either!
Either they are very stupid or they are trying to rub our noses in it either way Westminster can get tae Falkirk
The 18-24 age group were part of the “Lost Generation” talked about all over the UK. Some fell by the wayside, but others took jobs selling Love Films on commission, collecting for charity on commission, taking low-paid jobs, zero hour contracts, and some have moved on into reasonable jobs and careers.
They are still at risk, and are completely justified in feeling afraid of change, otherwise they can rejoin the lost generation. The job over the next few months is not to call them ("Tractor" - Ed)s or selfish, but to reach out and understand them, to talk to them, to reassure them. Probably best done by other 18-24 year-olds.
Their parents and grandparents will also have seen their efforts, their doubts, their fears, and that could be a reason they voted NO. The best people to talk to them are their own kids, their own grandkids. Or others the same age.
By the way, the preview on this is great, and even the posting box has better text for eyes like mine, getting a bit older and often posting in semi-dark. The Herald has probably Arial Narrow and is a pain to read or correct, I used to have to do most of it after posting, and then some times the posting got stuck into “moderation” 🙁
Talking about being a republic is a mute point, as nothing can be done until independence is achieved. as some have said its just a tactic to divide the YES vote.
John Wilson MSP stuck with the SNP until after the Referendum. Two SNP MSPs resigned after the NATO vote which is their right. They both vote with the SNP, as I expect John Wilson will too.
If the SNP were to hold a meeting for all its members, they would need to hire…. Hampden Park!
@Kaspar says:23 September, 2014 at 8:16 pm:
“Same old BBC
link to bbc.co.uk
Basically why bother joining a political party (wonder why the subject came up now) one quote saying “Party membership as a whole remains a minority pursuit”
Not only same old BBC they got it wrong as usual too.
They claimed two independence parties have reported large increases in membership and mention SNP & Greens but the SSP also increased their membership and if the Labour Party claims increased members who knows if those new members are London Labour or Labour for Indy? Can we actually say Labour are a Unionist party if they have a Labour for Indy Wing?
This must be the only nation in the world where its rugby team dedicated itself to another nation.
It’s a cruel farce.
These people are to be pitied.
The all-white South African team played for South Africa after apartheid had been topled and their whole world had been altered against their beliefs. They didn’t disband.
We need proper co-ordination between the YES political parties. To make sure the best party candidate in the right place gets the support of us all to beat the unionists candidates.
THE SNP are the Scottish National Party, stop going on about it please.
SRU are middle-class, privately educated, Tory voting scum bags. This is a game on the downward slope in Scotland, no wonder the Scotland team are crap. I doubt the professional sides will survive.
My answer to some smart arse Unionist who thinks he is winding me up about their victory
is to tell him that the Referendum we just had was a rehearsal, a warm-up for the real thing.
That referendum was just to get people in the mood.
It doesn’t half shut them up, because they cant believe that they have got to go through all that again.
It puts that wee spring back in your step.
Grouse Rugby is a middle class sport.The middle classes only care about cars and mortgages not the poor. Before anyone pipes up. I can say this because I am middle class. I am one of the exceptions to the rule! We ate being held back by old people and selfish right wing tossers!
Games a-bogie, chaps! Looks like we’ll be packing our troubles into the old kitbag. Back of the bus Scotland. England prevails!
Spoke to a Finnish woman in my work who voted yes. She thinks the Scots are just brainwashed idiots. I couldn’t disagree. She was surprised being independent was even a question.
@Robert Louis says: 23 September, 2014 at 8:17 pm:
“You make a good point. Lizzie is our monarch in Scotland only for as long as we wish her to be so, and no longer.” Indeed we, “The Sovereign People of Scotland”, could petition our Scottish Government to sack her now.
“Mwah hahahaha, ha ha mwahahahaha. etc..etc..
p.s. Is that treason?”
Of course not. It is the people of Scotland who are legally sovereign and that means the royal is legally our subject. In fact her purring at us losing the referendum, and the witness to that is of the highest trustworthyness, could make her legally guilty of treason against the sovereign people of Scotland.
Here it is black upon white : –
“Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself”.
Oo! Err! Have we stumbled upon a way to free Scotland? A Republic cannot be part of the United Kingdom.
EBC PQ SHOULD BE DEVOLVED TO HOLYROOD IMMEDIATELY.
Newsnet Scotland has a petition going at the moment. I am having great trouble accessing the site and have had all day. Something very wrong here AGAIN. GCHQ?
@yesindyref2
Yes they should. Brown,Bbc,Stv,newsprint and other politicians all used the term devomax and homerule. WM politicians now exavtly what those terms mean, but that is not what they offering or talking about now. This is a very big stick to beat them with. It highlights thier clear intent to deceive.
Really sickening piece on Newsnet about Blair McDougall bragging about using fear tactics, as their surveys told them this would be their best bet. Sent it with a message to Tom Bradby, who I follow just so I can comment on his posts. Probably a waste of time, but worth a try.
Sums up everything wrong with Scotland.
link to scottishrugby.org
Please everyone have a look at butterflyrebellion.org.It’s mouthwateringly liberating and needs all YES people to check out the site as a matter of urgency.The content is EXPLOSIVE.
DO ME A FAVOUR AND HAVE A WEE LOOK
MINDBLOWING!!!!!!
8000 new members joined snp today and will soon reach 30,000 since Thursday.
And to think that the unionists thought that a No vote kill the SNP stone dead.
Quick question (posted already but did not show)
Uk government will not want SNP taking most of seats in Scotland
So can anyone on here tell me what will be done different at election to stop vote rigging and scare mongeing or will it be same old
Speaking to a couple of friends today, (>65) who for a decade have been splitting their retiral time between Scotland and France. Took calls from friends in France over the weekend who were utterly bemused at the Scots refusal to take the opportunity to manage their own affairs. Gallic shrug didn’t come into it. Total disbelief.
Any way retiral plans have moved on. Instead of selling family and keeping a small flat in Edinburgh they are now intent on selling family home and living solely in France, with all funds leaving the country with them. They are utterly disgusted with the outcome.
This couple have managed to come to their own informed views without the aid of the internet; and also without the aid of the Scottish press and the state broadcaster. That will be something north of £1m to leave these shores and be taxed elsewhere.
I’ve read a good few posts here and quite frankly there are stupid ideas of how to save our souls, and next to nothing of how to reverse the theft of our nation.
There is not enough bloody anger and rage.
We were threatened!
We were threatened by our own politicians for Christ sake, by crooked banks, by corrupt financiers, by profit driven, low wage stores, by corporations, and an anti-democratic press and media, and that’s putting it mildly.
Those people and institutions demand justified fury flung in their face, prolonged wrath for canabalising a nation’s wealth and daring to remove hope and aspiration.
If we want out country back again we have proved trailing dutifully to a voting booth is not the answer. The British Establishment showed how easily it can scythe the process.
Out of this farce there must arise a mass sustained, cohesive, well-organised, well-directed campaign of concerted civil disobedience and protest directed accurately at the institutions, at the politicians who betrayed their countrymen and women, and at the banks that blackmailed.
It is of no consequence who writes what punchy essay in a spirit of understanding- we lost our country a second time by allowing others to bully enough into submission.
If you have no rage in your belly, if you have no anger, don’t post fey drivel. Go watch television and get on with your life as you wish to live it.
If you are furious about being cheated, sucked into a perverted process, organise a monolithic, dramatic reponse.
Remember, the opposition did not give a shit about you, or Scotland or how its people would be crushed.
Turn you anger on the organised opposition who felled a prosperous nation and its people.
Do it, and do it as ruthlessly as they did it to you.
The target of the next referendum will be to achieve an 80& YES vote. For that we need to keep the 45% we already have, and to take 2/3rds of the NO vote with us, including the 18-24, the over 55, and the conservatives small c, who will not be afraid of having a purely socialist Scotland, but have a Scotland with totally open politics.
We don’t want to alienate anyone, and there is some evidence that the mostly left-wing approach of the campaign did indeed alienate natural Independence supporters amongst the NOes.
yesindyref2 says
Flower of Scotland should go as the anthem
1.6 million of us are still the “flowers of Scotland”
We get to sing this. The 55 have given up that right
@ScottieDog says: 23 September, 2014 at 8:31 pm:
“I always said to my fiends who were NO voters that labour would use many of the arguments put forward by the YES campaign against the Tories in the run up to the GE”
Oh! ScottieDog your wee Freudian slip there has given me the best laugh I’ve had since the post referendum morning –
“my fiends who were NO voters”, really hilarious and I read it three times not quite realising what it said but thinking something wrong, then it clicked.
After a lifetime of proudly not belonging to any political party I joined SNP today. I want to show the unionists that we are not going anywhere.
I am beginning to come round to the idea of (proper) devo max as this would be the acceptable stepping stone for those frightened of full independence. Baby steps to independence may be the only way. We have to get buy in from all walks of life as I think there was far too much reliance on the poorer areas voting.
Piggy at 9:45 pm
liz g at 8:57 pm
“Can any of you think WHY the MSM would report on that story about the Queen?
The fact that the remarks were picked up may have been accidental, but I think they’re being reported to reassure the people who voted “No” that they made the right decision. The concept of a “reassurance letter” is apparently sometimes used in the world of marketing and I think Her Maj’s alleged feline vocalisations have been reported to create a similar effect. Found this online:
“It’s common for people to experience buyer’s remorse, especially when dealing with an expensive investment in a product. When you write up a letter that thanks them and really reaches out to them, it can easily reduce these fears and concerns that they had and really allows them to feel better overall.”
Got email from David’s brother urging me to support Labour and NHS.
Obviously, Ed needs to have word with Gordon, Douglas, Johan and Alistair who have assured us that NHS is safer faster and better.
@Big Jock – that’s because the Finnish lady hasn’t been subjected to 300 +years of propaganda.
When I was younger and heard about abusive partnerships, I used to say – why don’t they just leave – as I couldn’t understand why it would be hard.
I know a lot of folk said don’t compare this to an abusive relationship but that’s exactly what it is.
At the risk of repetition cos I know the people concerned don’t pay any attention – gonnae stop posting MSM links
All this talk of what the SNP will do at the general election ie wiping labour out etc will not work unless something changes otherwise the vote will just be rigged the same and the scaremongring
will not change either
Or do we have somthing we can do different as there is no way they will allow a massive snp win
Rugby isn’t a middle class sport. Nobody has been refused entry to a ground because they weren’t the “right class”. If any kid wants to try rugby, he or she will be welcomed by every club in the country. Please don’t try to put put working class kids off any sport, by claiming they won’t be welcome. Sport is sport.
If you’re referring to Gavin Hastings, he was understood by his contemporaries to be the prototype for “Tim Nice but Dim”. His only rivals in the intellectually challenged stakes were his Watsonian team mates. We working class guys enjoyed thrashing the living daylights out of them, which we did twice a season, before offering them a condescending hand shake at the end of the game. They really hated that.
I seem to remember there were quite a few famous former footballers who “came out” as No voters in the run up to the referendum. Does that make football a middle class Unionist sport? No, of course it doesn’t.
Arch unionist Scot Hastings in a recent debate made a point that he was so proud playing for the British Lions blah blah blah.
Excuse me, Scot, I thought it was the British and Irish Lions!
Duh!
Grouse Beater says
There is not enough bloody anger and rage
Grief is turning to anger, at least in my house and my family.
I really don’t mean to sound callous but everyday an old no voter shuffles off their mortal coil and a 15 year old becomes 16.
We are into the long game remember Bruce and the spider
Grouse Beater
we’re still here.
i feel anger, a peaceful anger.
a steely resolve.
the bewilderment has all but gone.
my thoughts are becoming clearer and ordered.
no one has given up, or will give up, i feel that our numbers are growing way beyond the45.
@Valerie
For some reason I (as dadsarmy) managed to get post-moderated on NNS this weekend, so can make the occasional posting without having to wait until it gets approved. I’ll use it wisely as they don’t like clutter.
@Daddyo
Yes you’re right of course, we do indeed, and we can sing it proudly. I guess it doesn’t stop us looking a bit critically at those who voted NO as they’re singing it … might make them think about the words they turned their back on – this time.
Rugby isn’t a middle class sport
The opposition will love you dashing off after a squirrel.
Jeezus.
Great SSP meeting in Irvine earlier this evening – 40 attended, mostly newcomers, and that was with scant publicity.
Seems we’ve taken on 2,100 new members since Friday morning, and that’s just the applications which have been processed.
Cracking comment by Alex Salmond on David Torrance.
http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk
I don’t understand the attitude of NNS to commenting, you’ll read a really great article there then below there are very few comments, just gives the impression that not many have read it. I really can’t think of any other blog or website that has such a strict policy, it’s very bizarre and does them no favours whatsoever.
@ ChrisB
I agree, but I have a feeling this is going to back fire big time. HM can’t refute the comment without severely embarrassing Cameron, and Cameron can’ refute it, because its recorded and reported.
The Queen reportedly refused to become involved, but it did not stop the msm from reporting or implying that she was against independace.
These are bad mistakes when you consider republicism is becoming much more popular.
@Grouse Beater (10.34) –
Powerful polemic – I’d love to see you versus Jim Murphy.
Rock says:
23 September, 2014 at 9:30 pmBalaaargh,
“@Rock
“Glenrothes voted YES. As did Kirkcaldy so I am told”
Do we know this to be true?
I live in Glenrothes and will do my upmost to get rid of that useless bawbag Roy
Come on the Grouse Beater.
Our country was stolen from us by foul means and i feel like a stranger in this land every time i go out.
My feeling now, given the level of lying by bt politicians and activists and lack of msm holding anyone to account, is that no matter what we do politically, we’ll continue to get screwed by the british establishment
What organised monolithic and dramatic response do you have in mind ?
Grousebeater at 10:34pm
This is a chess board my friend and the best statesmen know this. Alex Salmond played a grand game of it and should have won but for foul play.
Anger does nothing except make you thrash out uselessly.
Make your anger grim determination. Focus it into calm resolve and then tactically make your moves.
We dont win this by opposing anything, we win this by transcending the institutions that have become out of date and defunct – Westminster and the BBC for example. We win this by the cold collection of facts and sources on the economy, the lies that have been told, facts on our opponents hypocrisy etc.
I would suggest that anyone who wishes to ‘get angry and show it’ keep out of my way because i wont be tolerating it. The media will only paint it as being an angry thug.
Now is the time for calm purpose and the methodical construction of an honest and unbeatable argument for our countries independence and making sure everyone is aware of it.
Knowledge dispels fear.
I see Alan Grogen LFI founder has finally resigned from the British Labour Party as they will not change from within.
Alan Grogan has resigned from the Labour party – if someone as loyal as he has done that they are finished.
@Grouse Beater – we are all angry in our own way but what do you think this will achieve.
@Big Jock 10.18
One of my clients is a Finnish guy.Voted No so some Finns are brainwashed idiots too obviously.He said it was because of sports funding then went on to denigrade our economy.I said Finland should be run by Russia again,bit childish I know.
Oh, as I posted on NNS, now the Referendum is over and there is no Independence legislation the Scottish Government can enact, they will be unable to usw any more than very limited Civil Service resources, or spending, “to prepare for future legislation”. They will be able to spend resources preparing for Devo-Max, even now.
It means Civic and Academic Scotland – and us – are going to have to do all that, including EU membership, defence, International Relations, and all the rest of it.
Apparently 1,100 joined the SNP between 10.10 and 10.50 tonight, astonishing.
yesindyref2 says
Thats why, on Friday night, I put the YES stickers back on my car and my YES badges back on. Still grieving for what was lost but still so proud of my country – as you say – next time
Daddyo
I hear what you’re saying but as a nation (if you can even call us that) we cannot possibly sing FOS at any event from now on surely.
We’re already a laughing stock. That would make us look even more stupid than we’ve already proved.
Daddyo: There is not enough bloody anger and rage
I had a No voter tell me – without checking my integrity – how much he was relieved to have won the plebiscite.
I turned on him-
‘Proud to have sold out your countrymen? I’d have thought you too ashamed to tell anybody how you voted.’
He didn’t retaliate – others will, I’m sure, but either we have the courage of our convictions or we are craven liars.
Do you think millions in South American countries who have had to fight and many die for their democracy look upon their sacrificies as a pleasant day off to vote?
@David says. The spider, the spider, the **@@! spider folks….. now more than ever is time for discipline.
link to thecourier.co.uk
“4,000 .scot domain names registered
Director of Dot Scot Registry Gavin McCutcheon said: “It is entirely right that Scotland should have its own distinctive and recognisable internet domain, in particular one that will resonate internationally, helping to promote Scottish business and culture throughout the world.
“I am confident that the .scot domain name will prove to be a real asset to the people of Scotland and to the worldwide family of Scots.”
Finance Secretary John Swinney said: “With .scot domains now generally available, people at home and abroad have a new opportunity to express their Scottish identity or affinity online.
“I also look forward to http://www.gov.scot being adopted in the coming months as the primary web address for the Scottish Government.””
Grouse Beater
I understand and agree entirely. Last time I was this upset and angry, I had just watched my father die in front of me. I was 20 years old and clueless as to what a heart attack looked like or what to do.
I know it’s a stupid analogy but I’ve horribly similar frustration at now seeing my country stolen while, once again, I feel unable to fix what just happened. It’s ridiculous but true as the only time I felt this way was 36 years ago.
Just a positive thought to end the evening…
2 years ago I was a bit sceptical of the drive of Generation Y. What this referendum has shown is that the young in Scotland are very organised, well aware of a lot of issues and when they are not they bloody go and find out through multiple channels.
Even some young no voters at least seem to have tried to reason it out and not just follow the media.
It would be good to get the demographics of the new SNP and Green membership.
@Tam Jardine says: 23 September, 2014 at 8:49 pm:
“I wince whenever I hear the term ‘nationalist’ used to describe SNP supporters or Yes campaigners. I would be against changing the name but it would be good to have this addressed.
Why? That, “N”, in SNP stands for, “N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L”, Tam – Not, “N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L-I-S-T. Just tell whoever claims otherwise to go take remedial lessons in English. It literally means, “The Party of the Scottish Nation”, and since being in office they most certainly have proven they are just that.
If any lot are nationalists it is the unionists of the United Kingdom. They constantly claim to be British and anyone not of their Union to be NOT British. How many times have you heard Cameron claim to be, “The British Prime Minister”? He isn’t as the Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles. As are the Non-UK Bailiwick of Jersey, Non-UK Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Non-UK Isle of Man. What of them claiming the United Kingdom is their country? Last time I looked the letters k-i-n-g-d-o-m spelled kingdom, a royal realm they do not spell c-o-u-n-t-r-y which is an individual area of land usually but not always with a unitary government. What of the claims of the British Army? British Navy and British Air Force? – none of which exist being all United Kingdom armed forces or, to ber perfectly correct they belong to Her Majesty the Queen. Furthermore it is Her Majesty’s Government yet Cameron claims it is his government. They don’t come more nationalistic than that. What is more that type of nationalism is far more akin to the type on national socialism that caused two World wars and nothing like the nationalism that only wishes to be left alone to govern its own country.
@cynicalHighlander – ditto.
Alan Bissett and Irvine Welsh told the BBC to take a hike when they wanted an interview, the Yes bar in Glasgow has also told them the same thing.
So these folk are also expressing their anger
re Grouse Beater’s comments, which I wholeheartedly support:
Is there no place for justifiable anger? Have you any idea how unhealthy it is to bottle all that stuff up indefinitely?
Remember the Peter Finch ‘I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more!’ speech? What’s wrong with that?
I’m with Grouse Beater on this one – we should be mad, and some of us should be allowed to show it. Some folk are good at diplomacy, some are good at deep-breathing and keeping composed in the face of injustice, but others are good at letting-rip right into the faces of liars and thieves, giving them the full hairdryer treatment they never ever experience in real-life.
I say we thank them for doing it so that the more sensitive among us don’t have to – so long as it remains verbal, fair do’s. (Was the man who heckled Alistair Darling – calling him a ‘ratbag’ – wrong? If I’d been in the same place and had the guts to raise my voice, I would’ve called him a lot worse.)
This is no game. They won because they know how to lie, cheat and steal – from the very weakest of us! – with a straight face, and have no qualms about it. We were, and are, too ‘nice’.
‘Nice’ won’t free us from Westminster rule.
David
quakers get their name from shaking in anger and rage.
@fred blogger –
They were angry because they couldn’t get their oats.
(I’ll get my oat…)
So, in the early hours of Friday in Dundee, my son and I were ashamed to be Scottish, and were saying we would take Irish nationality which we could get easily.
But as a father my first responsibility was to him, and I managed to help get him out of his dark despair. In turn his bounceback helped mine, and I cam online and read this forum, seeing many had already started the fightback.
I’ve stuck around and am in a much better mood, looking ahead now, perhaps with more determinatation than ever. Scotland will be Independent, and before I pop my clogs! Fellow posters have helped me, and I hope I’ve helped a little.
But my sadly neglected business calls, and my personal finances are [deleted], so it’s back to work right now, but I’ll call in every now and again. Good luck to ye all
To the Rev! What can I say, eccentric and off the wall and I mean that as a compliment. This was round 1 and the Union is ahead on points, but not by much. Round 2 is the Devo-max stramash and might result in a knockout OF the Union in 1-2 years if Devo-Max isn’t delivered. But round 3 if Devo-Max is delivered will end in 5 years or so, and that will be Independence by a Devolution referendum percentage. Stick around! Scotland wasn’t ready this time, but we will be the next.
ian brotherhood
yes that obviously 🙂 and in the face of lies.
To all old Labour folks… A political party is only a political party. ‘Labour’ is only a name. It is the principles which count. The SNP are the new popular Left of Centre party… With the Socialists and Greens holding their own positions.
Labour died when the Bullington boys decided to infiltrate it from within, take it overa and destroy all that it was and stood for.
No one should be sentimental about a name. Times move on.
David says: Anger does nothing except make you thrash out uselessly.
And where did you suddenly come from? Whoever you are, keep your patronising crap for someone else.
Did I say we should all go beat someone up, or kick a cat?
As for your limp wristed game of chess analogy – did the Irish say, we will have to play a good game of dominoes with the English if we are to get our country back again? (That’s a rhetorical question.)
I wrote about hard-nose protest.
Get a grip.
If you want to lead you’re too bloody late appearing here.
So the Murdoch press is a reliable source…when it suits you? You and Eck have an *awful* lot in common.
Ian Brotherhood – I loves ya. 🙂
How about a WOS night sometime soon, in the now famous YESBAR?
what’s scottish national party in gaelic
If you want a channel for your anger
choose 100 houses near you and tell your local SNP / Green / SSP / Solidarity that if they give you 100 leaflets between now and 7 May you’ll deliver them to those 100 houses come rain hail snow or sunshine.
You’ll feel a lot better.
@TJenny –
Right back at ye, with bells and ribbons on…
I don’t even know where the Yes Bar is, but it sounds intriguing. I did hear a rumour that Paula Rose has been in secret rehearsals, and that the place has had a pole installed just in case she becomes book-able?
Hmmm…
@grouse
While I both hear and feel your anger and passion, it’s only any good if it is tempered by cunning.
Remember – the British state has dined long and well on angry and impassioned independence movements. It is not new to the game. What it wants to hear is precisely the cry of unrestrained anger. That will give it every excuse. Don’t fall for it.
Go and steep yourself in history, Grouse. The tactics that have always won for us have been the wearing down of the enemy by making life as difficult as possible, by not giving up, by using every last opportunity to stick needles through the joints in their armour.
It may not be us; it may not be in our time. But it will happen.
when i joined the s.n.p in 1958 i joined the scottish national party not nationalist
Daddyo
May have misread your comment. Apologies.
I’m now in total agreement 😉
@ Rock
“We won’t need to declare UDI. Scotland will become ungovernable by Westminster. They will be left with no choice but to vote for an Independence of Scotland Act.”
But isn’t Scotland (technically at least) already “ungovernable”? The Tories are in power with only one solitary MP in Scotland. If they had zero MPs in Scotland I doubt even then that it would make a blind bit of difference to them. They would carry on regardless.
So, what difference will it make if we return a majority of Scottish Indy Alliance MPs to WM unless they declare UDI? And–as per my original question–if we declare UDI will the EU, UN, NATO etc recognise it? Would such a UDI declaration not be regarded as ‘illegitimate’ (ala Kosovo) as it was not ‘agreed’ with Westminster?
Just trying to get my head around this (in line with Alex Salmond’s recent ‘more ways to skin a cat’ comment).
Been said before but you must read thishttp://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sabotage-of-scotlands-democracy/
@liz g says:23 September, 2014 at 8:57 pm:
“I am hoping that some leadership emerges soon but meanwhile can we at least here,keep reminding ourselves and everyone else the Queen is a non issue for a people who are only trying to choose the best way to run the Country.”
Liz, There is indeed a legal reason for the debate about the Queen for the whole matter of the Treaty of Union that formed the, “United Kingdom”, really does apply to the royalty and as t