Misinforming the nation
Just for laughs, we thought we’d have a look on the BBC website this morning for some intelligent, detailed analysis of yesterday’s devolution proposals from the Conservatives. Yeah, we know. We must still be a bit drunk from last night.
Not only is there not a single mention of the Strathclyde Commission report in the headlines (which do find room to report the line-up of a book festival in Nairn coincidentally featuring a number of BBC presenters, and the hot news that Roy Keane will NOT be the next manager of Celtic, although neither he nor Celtic had ever said he would), but on digging down into the dedicated referendum section we found something more disturbing.
The image above comes from a piece entitled “Scotland’s referendum: What are the ‘No’ parties offering instead of independence?” The article contains several troubling inaccuracies, mainly where it turns vague aspirational comments in the parties’ offerings into firm commitments, but the most disturbing is the claim that Labour’s “Devo Nano” proposals “go further than 2012’s Scotland Act”.
As we’ve previously established by the hitherto-unknown investigative-journalism power of actually reading the Scotland Act 2012, Labour’s “Powers For A Purpose” report in fact recommends a massive REDUCTION in the scope of the Act. There is currently no upper limit whatsoever on the tax-raising powers which will be available to the Scottish Parliament when the Act finally comes online in 2015/16, but Labour plans to introduce one of 15p above the UK rate.
Now, since in reality there’s no conceivable prospect of a Scottish Government setting a Scottish income tax rate 15p higher than that of the UK, one might reasonably argue that it’s something of a moot point. Also, the most likely case is that Scottish Labour is genuinely too clueless to realise that there’s currently no upper limit, and really does think there’s a 10p one which it’s generously extending.
(But as there’s no conceivable prospect of the Scottish rate ever being 10p higher than the UK’s either, making the limit 15p instead is a bit like a library lifting its restriction on the number of laser-armed unicorns you can tether to its bike rack from one to six.)
Nevertheless, there are no circumstances in which it’s NOT worrying to have the BBC telling its readers an absolute and unequivocal untruth. The issue of more powers for the Scottish Parliament in the event of a No vote is a significant factor in the referendum, and having the state broadcaster casually say “If you vote No and elect Labour they’ll increase Holyrood’s powers” when in fact the exact opposite is the case does neither the BBC’s reputation nor the independence debate any favours.
Good work, Rev. I trust now that the BBC will rectify their mistake and apolobwahahahaha
The BBC are past attempting to maintain reputation……this is becoming a dog fight…..expect a lot more unadulterated lies.
Important to share these BBC lies around that they be exposed.
Scum that they are, as Rab would say!
The BBC is sadly not a place to go to get accurate information. I think the continual cutbacks have all but removed the concept of investigative journalism from the BBC portfolio of activities.
The ongoing debate within the debate – is the BBC’s inaccurate and apparently biased reporting conspiracy or just cock-up? Personally, I think both. There is institutional cheer leading for the Union, however they are totally incompetent at so doing. They seem incapbable of any accurate journalism, biased or otherwise!
I did think at the outset that the BBC would be biased but in a subtle format.
In some ways that could have been more damaging to the YES campaign as they could have maintained a veneer of “reputation”.
I have spoken to many “don’t knows” and it is surprising how many agree that the stance of the media (especially the BBC)is very pro union.
Then you slip them an Aye Right card 😀
I have been fairly loyal to the Beeb, but the goings on at PQ need to come to a head.
In terms of the broadcasts, a watershed may occur with tonight’s viewing figures when ” the whole programme ” at 10.30 on BBC2 will be devoted to our Nicola and Dougie discussing ” any” topic. It’s not their contributions I’ll be scrutinising but Sarah Smith’s adjudication
o/t
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
Labour lead slipping. This site has been fairly accurate in the past.
You can drill down to your local ward level.
Perhaps some of the disgruntled BBC journalists who are threatening strike action could do something to highlight this one.
Did anyone see Lord Snooty on Channel Four last night it was classic television and will probably produce another 1000 YES voters! Lies Lies Lies that’s what we are getting all of the time. Wake up Scotland.
Now that we’re in the regulated period (we are, aren’t we?) is there not some sort of redress that can be obtained here? Can the BBC get into trouble for such obvious untruths?
@ HandandShrimp
Their investigative journalism dept is called Eleanor Bradford, Scottish NHS FOI request supremo.
Perhaps appointing Kezia Dugdale as BBC Scotland’s new political editor was a mistake?
thank god for that
youve no idea how hard it is to tether my herd of laser armed unicorns when I go to the library to take my gardening by numbers books back.
Clootie says:
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
You can drill down to your local ward level.
Thanks, shows my constituaency moving from Lab to SNP. That cheered me up! Then I thought about. That would be for a Westminster election, and I hope we never have another of those!
However, you are correct, it does give a fascinating picture and show Labour slipping badly in Scotland. Which may translate into increased Yes support, in the wider picture.
And from the Sinking Ship BBC this;
” Oh I say, the bung has seemingly gone. Kezia, be a love and knock a hole in the bottom to let the water out”
@Mosstrooper?
A bung? What can you be implying?
In my eyes, the BBC and BBC Scotland are “finished”. I do not believe one story that they run with now.
It’s hard to put into words, but the lies and
mis-information that have come out of Pacific Quay, really have turned this fairly level headed guy, into one who is angered and enraged by the actions of this corrupt, bias organisation.
Also, regarding Pacific Quay, I have heard there might be another demo at PQ on 29th June. Need a bit more info.
Channel 4 News hatchet job
m.youtube.com/watch?v=82o0uVxSgto
Jeesuss grat!
Stu
Thanks for reading the BBC website so I don’t have to
Whether you are an 11 on the scale, a die hard no, or undecided a documentary examining in depth the 3 unionists parties proposals is surely essential for the public. That is what would happen in a modern democracy.
The trouble is that for all those who don’t read Wings or other Indy sites, no media or journalists seem to be examining the proposals at all.
I know all 3 proposals are weak and make no sense, misunderstood by MSPS and MPS never mind the public.
If you ask Joe Public the differences I suspect you would get a shrug. That’s why the BBC’s narrative of ‘increased powers’ is so dangerous – it is so complex an issue for the public that this simplistic and false message will sink in. A Yes paper or booklet with the sole purpose of debunking the devo proposals is essential.
The press or telly are aiding and abetting. As for the BBC Scotland, to paraphrase Burns, ‘Such a parcel of rogues in a station’. Sorry!
Misinformation – the new element of the BBC charter in Scotland.
Let’s just see how long it takes for them to correct this blatant falsehood – if at all.
We didn’t hear about the journalists meeting within the BBC yesterday!
I can hardly believe how far down, in everyone’s expectations, the BBC has fallen! I wouldn’t have even have believed a few years ago that they would actually lie and make things up! If I worked there I would have to be on the NO side or I couldn’t spout the lies to to my own people that THEY do! I would RESIGN! So they must all be NOs
@caz-m
I agree. Everything that comes out of BBC Scotland I now regard with deep suspicion at best, and outright disdain most of the time. That’s the case whether it’s the execrable Scotland 2014, the unsubtle Unionist witterings of Sanjeev Kohli, or the propaganda central that is Reporting Scotland.
The time for looking for any sort of balance from them – even in the putative ‘balanced’ period – is long past. In saying that, if there is a demo on the 29th, I will be there, not in any hope or expectation that they will change, but to show Glaswegians and any interested foreign broadcasters that we are sick and tired of this monster.
Tam Jardine,
Agree with what you say, but there is no need for a detailed debinking of the various ‘jam tomorrow’ proposals by the YES campaign, as they are without exception, pie in the sky wishes. Not one of these parties can guarantee ANY new powers, given they will require to be passed in the HoC, the Lords and so on.
These exrta powers statements are just fluff. The REAL problem is the blatantly biased state broadcaster, the BBC spinning these proposals as ‘more powers’, when as pointed out above, in the case of Labour’s offering they are in fact the reverse.
Meanwhile the BritNAT propaganda from the BBC carries on as usual.
I’m so glad we gave our TV away and canceled our license.
On a quick off topic there is some interesting information on the Electoral Commissions site for the independence referendum now:
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
Particularly the EC’s assessment of and Better Together’s application for, lead campaigner status:
“Established over 200 local campaigns. 25,000 people have signed up to support their campaign. Over 10,000 activists regularly take part in their organised campaign.”
@Clootie
That Electoral Calculus site is handy but is it just me that finds it disturbing they use NAT instead of SNP?
Not very nice is it?
Bunter
Eleanor Bradford, the BBC Scotland “bitch”.
“You want shit for your teatime show Jackie?,
I’ll give you shit alright, just tell me how much”.
Desimond
I think they should take on board that the parties in Wales, Scotland NI have different names. They just lump us all together under Nat.
I think if one were to set up a spoof No group and made some sort of outrageous claim regarding Scotland’s membership of this or that (two organisations we definitely don’t want to join anyway) I am convinced they would run with whatever press brief they are supplied with without checking it.
Who can trust the BBC? Its now being seen as a corrupt, rotten entity. Jimmy Saville was protected by the organisastion.
No license fee after Independence, No BBC Better Together either.
On ‘Good Moaning Scotland’ I heard them trying to ‘big’ up their crappy patronising pantomime and comedy show called ‘Scotland 2014’.
I sent them a text which they surprisingly didn’t read out. No sweary words in it. Just told them what their TV programme was like.
As regards Radio Scotland and their clearance sale: Bill Whiteford…they are coming for you next. Better start saving up buddy or that big fat mortgage you have will be like a millstone round your neck.
Not that I’ll be giving a shit for you.
Like everything serious presented by stand-up comics, I’m sure the erroneous paragraph was written by one.
The electoral calculus website highlights the problem with FPP elections. In Scotland Labour – 34%, SNP – 30%. Labour – 40 seats, SNP – 14 seats.
Tri Ears
I think they are still allowed to tell lies but have to be balanced.
ie. ‘The union is super’ – lie.
‘Independence is crap’ – another lie!
Equal lies for both sides. That seems to be how it works.
Well investigated sir,now,where can I get one of these laser armed unicorns and what colours do they come in?
I see the Daily Record described the Tory proposals as Devo-Max.
Is there anyone in the Scottish media that can be trusted to report the facts?
I don’t think there is.
Never mind folks,we are being helped today by Gordy Broon relaunching the no campaign…how many times is it now.
link to theguardian.com
Daily complaint about inaccuracy and/or bias sent. Never get the requested reply though. I suspect that they’re going into lockdown mode and hoping everything just passes them by and works out well.
@clootie / Gala, When did the SNP change their name to the NAT Party in that Electoralcalculus
Also hidden in the referendum section was something that bugged me.
Cant find it just now but it did state at one point that in the event of a Yes Vote there could still be a legal challenge to the result
Robert Louis
Agreed. My fear is that the more often the BBC and STV accept these pie in the sky proposals as ‘more powers’ as Sarah Smith and Rhona accepted as the starting point last night it I risks becoming the accepted wisdom. Obviously the intention.
Having said that, the electorate are deeply suspicious of Westminster in general so the purchase of any further devo proposals is almost certainly weaker than I fear. For example, is there a single solitary soul who will vote no because of Ming’s vague list?
The fact that BBC bias is becoming the story finally is great. Am looking forward to Prof Robertson’s next report. The more this is to the fore the more viewers will question the No fodder they are being fed.
SNP has 25,000 paid up members, supporting the Party.
Plus the other Parties/YES supporters. Outnumber BT anytime. BT has no foot soldiers/activists on the ground. Just fraudulent PR companies, paid for by fraudulent contribution.
Boycott the BBC/MSM. No viewers – no programmes.
Sorry found it..
“However, the result is open to challenge by judicial review, provided a case is brought within six weeks of the result.”
Now I didnt know that!
CHUMBAWAMBA: Everything You Know is Wrong 😉
“You’re not going to be an independent country Scotland, ever.”
Yours sincerely,
Ken MacQuarry
Director BBC in Scotland
Say cheez Sir Kenneth
link to bbc.co.uk
Terrific article from the FM. Wait for the nasty comments to begin.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
All this for £192,000 a year for oor Ken but its just not enough really.
Roles and responsibilities
Ken has overall responsibility for BBC Scotland and leads a business with an annual turnover in excess of £150m and which employs 1,250 staff across Scotland.
He is responsible for leading the creative teams which produce more than 15,000 hours of local radio and television content each year and a range of online content.
He is also responsible for a substantial and growing level of network content.
He ensures that BBC Scotland fulfils its public service broadcasting responsibilities in both English and Gaelic.
Ken provides the vision and creative leadership necessary to deliver BBC Scotland’s portfolio of multiplatform programmes and services and is responsible for maximising public value through creativity, innovation and efficient use of resources.
Ken is a member of the Management Board.
responsible for maximising public value through creativity, innovation and efficient use of resources.
I think mass well organised protests at PQ should be made at least monthly, fortnightly in the last 6 weeks before the referendum. With plenty notice and a couple of well known Yes supporters to help draw the crowds.
It will not help BBC at all and will embarrass them but will not stop their anti YES agenda,however would enlighten people about them much more. At least with every growing crowds and possible foreign news coverage, they ain’t going to like it, and that’s a good thing!
Scotland 2014 ? Abysmal – Lenny Henry eh wtf? Either do a serious program or don’t bother. It makes the One Show look intellectual…
The BBC in Scotland are going all out to save the union. That’s the managers’ only concern. They seem to think that if they secure a no vote then everything for them will carry on as normal (the normal before the referendum become a reality). However, the problem for them is that if they continue down this line then no matter which way the vote goes their reputation will be permanently damaged. We don’t trust a word they say on this issue, so why should we trust them on anything else? Aunty is slowly digging her own grave in order to secure a no vote. At this rate, win or lose she’ll be dead in Scotland by September 19th.
I’m half-expecting the next Daily Record or BBC headline to be:-
“Labour Win Referendum!”
All these offers of tax variations within the UK are pie in the sky.
They are not going to allow someone a lower taxation level in Dumfries to that of someone who is over the border in Carlisle, who will be paying more tax.
There would be outrage in rUK. They will rightly say that they are paying more tax for universal services like Defence.
It’s a non-starter. Only solution to this conundrum, is to Vote YES.
oor Ken’s expenses are nae bad either but onviusly getting paid nealry £200 grand a year is just not enough for business trip to London. 30 quid black rides, din dins, more cab rides, tube rides, bus even, sight seeing probably as you do, £105 hotel internet access to Japan over 5 nights eh?!
and on it goes. Money and the BBC, good times had by all
link to downloads.bbc.co.uk
Scotland 2014 Sturgeon vs Alexander? I for one won’t be watching. The only message the BBC will understand is crap viewing figures. That and that alone might send Smith and Naughtie home.
That BBC Scotland thinks that the invigorating national conversation that’s going on is best served by a debate between two senior politicians, neither of whom will add anything new to the discussion, tells me all I need to know about the journalistic ambitions of our “national broadcaster”.
The MSM and particularly the BBC can’t deal with the fact that at a grassroots level the ordinary people of Scotland are having this debate amongst themselves, informing and educating themselves and then spreading the word on the High Streets and town hall meetings across Scotland. That’s a wonderful thing to be a part of and that’s the real story.
Vote with your remotes people!
NEWSFLASH: Just had a reply to an earlier BBC complaint re failure to disclose CBI membership in an article about the CBI. The reply essentially said “we pure did mention it, by the way.”
Rechecked article…they didn’t.
Thanks, BBC, for being even more useless.
“I think mass well organised protests at PQ should be made at least monthly, fortnightly in the last 6 weeks before the referendum….It will not help BBC at all and will embarrass them but will not stop their anti YES agenda”
So if it won’t stop their anti yes agenda, what’s the point of it then?
Surely all the resources and people in the last 6 weeks before the referendum should be concentrating entirely on trying to win the referendum?
MacQuarry claims over a 100 quid for a “leaving party” for 5. Must be what BBC troughers do at the end of each trip to HQ. Balloons, party poppers, cake maybe.
haud on the noo says
Hi, they have a more interesting program tonight, Nicola v Danny Alexander. Now that should give us a laugh or two!
Danny will be with his personal hypnotist all day today!
O/T
Currently have 4 unwanted tickets for In Conversation with the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond today Tuesday at 18:00 at Dundee University.
I will return them if they are not wanted as it is already a sellout, but anyone wanting first dibs who can meet me in the Dalhousie Building at 5.15pm is welcome to them, if you can let me know by 1pm.
Meant to put this on here and not on the previous topic.
Apologies
I make no apology for repeating this link. It is dynamite particularly for our young ladies.
link to youtube.com
If there is another demonstration at PQ it has to be promoted with plenty of time with international agencies invited. RT would be happy to have a look I’m sure and the Spanish among others
I’m listening to RT at the moment (channel 85 on Freeview) as I do every morning now.I understand fully where it is coming from and that is factored into what I hear from them but their judgement earlier on the US hypocrisy in Afghanistan was right on the button
“Terrific article from the FM”
This quote is particularly good:
“We will be better off if decisions about Scotland are taken by the people who care most about Scotland – those who live and work here”
Sadly Salmond isn’t going to live up to his rhetoric.
After a yes vote he is planning to create a currency union and negotiate for Scotland to become a member of the EU and Nato without giving the people of Scotland any say, and despite not having a mandate to do so.
As the Scottish Greens correctly say:
“The Scottish Government must recognise that as yet they have no mandate for their policies in reserved areas. From
NATO membership to the level of Corporation Tax, they should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016”
“I think mass well organised protests at PQ should be made at least monthly, fortnightly in the last 6 weeks before the referendum….It will not help BBC at all and will embarrass them but will not stop their anti YES agenda”
A big benefit of the protests is that it means we can say to people on the doorsteps things like “have you heard about the protests outside the BBC?”.
It is great way to help get the massage out as widely as possible that the BBC are not to be trusted.
I am not saying that the STV polls are bias nonsense, but on 19th September, after a YES victory, STV could run a poll and STILL have the NO campaign ahead of YES.
They have No 20 points in front of YES.
STV, you have got to be joking!
MacQuarry loves to fly too. On 3/9/20-13, he flew three times back and fore, Glasgow to London, Heathrow Glasgow, then back again to Luton, and Glasgow maybe but the day before he took a £208 flight from Glasgow to Heathrow.
Maybe there is actually two MacQuarries or MacQuarrie just like to be up in the air a lot.
Sorry still laughing at the BBC and Journalism. Maybe when we are independent we just might get back to having proper investigative journalism. We think it died in the days when Governments stuck D notices everywhere and all our investigative (ahem) journalists could do was go after celebrities.
I see Duggies back, with more good news.
ronnie anderson says:
@clootie / Gala, When did the SNP change their name to the NAT Party in that Electoralcalculus
I agree it’s not usual because SNP is the established short version. However ‘Nat’ is the shortened middle word and not totally inaccurate. I’m a Nat and don’t find it at all offensive. SNP would have been clearer.
We could start calling the Conservative and Unionist Party – CUNP instead of CON. That would catch a few TV & Radio folks out 😉
“It is great way to help get the massage out as widely as possible that the BBC are not to be trusted.”
Surely in the 6 weeks before the referendum the one and only message yes campaigners should be giving on the doorstep, or anywhere else, is the benefits and advantages of a yes vote?
What exactly is the point of wasting time and energy protesting against the BBC?
Firstly, its likely to turn off undecided voters who like watching Eastenders and are fond of the beeb, and secondly in the big scheme of things its irrelevant – if there’s a yes vote it won’t matter whether the BBC are biased or not!
[…] « Misinforming the nation […]
It would be easy to conclude that the BBC are incompetent. Propaganda takes really smart people. Stu does a brilliant job of debunking, but the reality is that the masses are lapping this BBC stuff up. Concerted, consistent drip, drip, drip works. Look at UKIP. Iraq, the Jubilympics, John Charles Menezes. Dissenters are noise only if they are heard. The MSM are riding shotgun for the BBC so that’s unlikely to happen.
Not really O/T and further to what the LSE has been saying about the UK’s endemic housing shortage, here is the free-market Institute of Economic Affairs. Why does the MSM not cover these matters accurately? Might it shine a light on the real nature of the UK plc?
This does not mean that the demand side is completely irrelevant. The tax and benefit system does provide
counterproductive disincentives against the formation of joint households, and there is a case for reforming it. But even a brief glance at Table 8 suggests that the housing affordability crisis is, above all, a supply-side phenomenon, even if slightly exacerbated by demand-side factors. Construction is a volatile activity, and many countries show low completion rates at some point. But none of the neighbouring countries has quelled development with such rigour for such a long time.
link to iea.org.uk
We should all remind ourselves that the Tories will not be winning a majority in Scotland in the near future. If we vote No and the Tories win in Westminster, as expected, then the Strathclyde proposials will be forced upon us by a London government we didn’t vote for.
Tories spouting plans for Scotland is part of the problem, it can never be a solution to anything.
I just wrote “the Strathclyde proposials will be forced upon us by a London government we didn’t vote for”
Perhaps this should have been “the Strathclyde proposials could be forced upon us by a London government we didn’t vote for” because, of course, they might not give more powers at all!
The BBC is effectively a Ministry of State Propaganda working on behalf of & to the benefit of, the British Establishment.
What is the Establishment? It’s the apparatus of the British State including Westminster, Whitehall, the BBC itself, the Royal family, the armed forces, aristocrats & privileged individuals in control of quangos & agencies with significant levels of authority over you.
Decades of propaganda & thus conditioning of the public have convinced many that it is an impartial provider of data, information & news.
But anyone who still thinks that the BBC is truthful & fair is either drunk or surviving on a prescription of mind altering drugs.
It clearly views Scottish independence & those who support it as a vehicle with which to undermine, alter or change the balance of power which is still based fundamentally in London.
Using cut backs as an excuse are wildly off the mark. The BBC collects some £3 billion per year, every year to operate within a framework & code written by the Establishment in London.
It has no intention therefore of providing any reason to support Scottish independence or offer Scots arguments in support of independence.
@Duggie, you’re wrong. We can still get out campaigning as well as turn up and give the Pathetic Quay mob a shirracking on a regular and sustained basis. It does not have to be one thing or another.
I attended the demo and it was an affirming event. Meeting other like-minded Scots and English people who are sick and tired of Lies, Lies, Lies. There are many closet ‘maybe’ YES supporters who need events like this to galvanise them.
Not all people are brave enough to canvass etc. But a demo or march etc. can allow them to dip their collective toes in the water of political action.
My big regret is that there is no big march planned before the REF. as I truly believe it could shift a lot of ‘heart’ voters away from voting with their (wrong) heads.
By the way there are a good YOUTUBE videos of the demo on now. I don’t know how to link it, but go see what you missed. By the way @Tam Jardine..loved the ‘Parcel of Rogues in the Station’..will use that on my banner at the next demo!
@Nana Smith
Alex Salmond had a great piece in London Standard last nght. He is also doing a talk here on June 30th I believe.
It was all about hope,confidence, vision and togetherness without Westminster selfishness.
Hello Duggie, here boy, have a biscuit before Rev notices you’ve shit on the carpet again and throws you out into the garden.
BBC Scotland, and therefore it’s London masters, have found themselves utterly unprepared for the Referendum.
It is clear from all evidence no one at BBC contemplated matters would reach this stage, certainly not that a Yes vote would be a distinct possibility.
I suspect a few at HQ London discussed how best to handle a “core” of independence supporters – “We musn’t pander to them” (my quotation) – but none could have forseen it the reality – a groundswell of grass roots support.
It is all in the mindset – they see Scotland as a region, a province. Any protest vote will soon dispel. No need to throw money at the politics, normal programmes can handle it. All they assume they need do is ensure reality series carry at least one show from somewhere in Scotland … and so we get Antiques Road Show from Edinburgh, and so on, and so forth.
Interesting/depressing, the head BBC dude currently closing down Scottish Independence at the BBC earns £70k more than Scotland’s First Minister and nearly 3 times more than Scottish MP salary at Holyrood.
Who let the dug out?
Yeah he gets £192,000 ( might be more cos I thought that these were 2009 figures)to undermine the confidence and democracy of the Scottish people ah! the good old days when it only took 30 pieces of silver! talk about a parcel of rogues!
The revolution will not be televised….
@Nana Smith
Alex Salmond in London Standard Monday 2nd June 2014
link to standard.co.uk
@Duggie says:
3 June, 2014 at 10:56 am
You are mixing up referendum and the 2015 elections!
WE deliver the YES vote. One of the key drivers for independence is that WE select party or parties which deliver the Scotland we want.
I happen to align with the SNP manifesto. Howver it can only be delivered if the majority agree.
a) Win the Referendum or you will NEVER have a chance of getting your vision through.
b) Convince me and others that your proposal is better.
Read the quote again in that context:
“We will be better off if decisions about Scotland are taken by the people who care most about Scotland – those who live and work here”
@nana smith tried to post on that clowns comment about air guns,( a child was killed in Scotland ) its to sencitive a comment to inform idiots on their illinformed comments.
Huuffington Post a bloody joke.
“My big regret is that there is no big march planned before the REF. as I truly believe it could shift a lot of ‘heart’ voters away from voting with their (wrong) heads”
Why isn’t there? Does anyone know?
@lochside 11:20
here’s one of the BBC protest videos
link to youtube.com
@galamcennalath
Thanks for that link to the Electoralcalculus website, the predicted drop in Labour % and rise in ‘Nat’ % for almost all Scottish seats is intriguing (especially Beaker Alexander’s previously safe seat). I’ll be lost for days in that site now!!
oops 2016 – 3 June, 2014 at 11:32 am
“WE select party or parties which deliver the Scotland we want. I happen to align with the SNP manifesto. Howver it can only be delivered if the majority agree”
But that’s simply not true. The SNP are planning to enact their independence policies after a yes vote, BEFORE the next election, without giving the people of Scotland a say and despite not having a mandate to do so.
As the Scottish Greens correctly say:
“The referendum is a simple choice: should Scotland be an independent country? It will establish no mandate for specific policies Scotland might pursue”
And yet, despite that fact, the SNP are planning to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the people of Scotland a choice.
Interesting/depressing also is that you can’t find out what say Jacky Bird, Gordon Brewer etc get paid. It’s all a big BBC secret. Incredible NO man Tom Morton up in Shetland is a private company so his pay cheque is probably minute for a BBC ligger but rather tasty from Tom Morton Enterprises inc.com. 2 hours a weekday waflling away about nothing with some fine tunes, bish bosh, dripping with TV licence dosh.
Stu’s likely to be pretty intolerant of stray dugs wandering around this week. It being Lucy week.
@desimond…thanks, that made me laugh…
@ John King laser armed Unicorns, Irene get John oota that romper room he’s playin wie the Barbie toys. Big Smilies
without giving the people of Scotland a choice.
Stuart
I am breaking a personal code here in asking, but is there any chance you can sanction this poster in such a way that it stops his vexatious, provokative repetition, and distruption of genuine discussion? It takes only one unwary site member to answer him and we will get the same mono-manic comment post after post all day.
Many thanks.
@lochside 11:20
and the Russia Today offering:
link to youtube.com
Heedtracker link to Ken’s expenses
Some of the items really make you wonder why so many top ups on the oystercard ? taxi with luggage? One man for a couple of nights just how much luggage does one man need that it has to be surcharged? and if I put my expenses in with the dates all over the shop. The office manageress would tell me where to go. Claiming expenses January expenses in April? a separate finacial year? she would probably kick me where it hurts.
If this is how he organises his expenses no wonder they are so disorganised that they are paying off one of their experienced presenters while buying in the help from London
Protesting outside Pacific Quay might make the protesters feel good about themselves but it is a waste of time if the intention is to make the management of the BBC sit up & take notice.
Why? Well, the BBC is controlled from London so the protesters would be protesting at the wrong people in the wrong city.
There may well be people with fancy titles & big salaries working of out Glasgow but do you really believe that they are in charge? Really?
And even if one did protest in London, unless one is able to mass a crowd of tens of thousands, no one inside the BBC will care. It is unlikely the BBC will report it & it’s unlikely the print media will report it too. Why? It’s not in their interest to report it. It undermines their authority.
The only way to change the BBC is to get rid of it. And the only way to get rid of it in Scotland is to vote for independence so that we have the political will to replace it with a public service broadcaster that serves us, not those wealthy elites in London.
Okay, i;ll bite
Duggie…while you say your a YES fan, will you actually be voting YES or will the dastardly SNP cause you to vote No or abstain?
If your reply is YES, then whats the point in this constantly repeated off-topic spiel apart from airing some self induced singular obsession?
If the answer is No, then i dont think youre gonna convert anyone here.
im happy there will not be a march and i hope it stays that way no need to give an opportunity to those who would disrupt it with possible violence allowing the cops to beat down on it and call us all separatists terrorists,be very wary Scotland of the depths westminster can stoop to!
TV license cancelled! Sadly it didn’t have a bit to fill in why..
Heedtracker says: the head BBC dude currently closing down Scottish Independence at the BBC earns £70k more than Scotland’s First Minister and nearly 3 times more than Scottish MP salary at Holyrood.
Yeah-but no-but yeah, but no …
If the BBC didn’t pay vast salaries it couldn’t attract the high quality of talent it needs, (no criteria of selection) causing that talent to take their services elsewhere.
It’s only by importing such talent that BBC Scotland is able to achieve such a magnificent level of international success with its programme sales.
It does two things: placate the natives and pronounce “Kirkcaldy” as…
…”Kir-cordly.”
Good Morning Scotland this morning provides yet further evidence of institutional bias. Interviewing Jeremy Purvis, Lib Dem Lord, and Patrick Harvie, Scottish Greens Leader, Hayley Millar demonstrated her usual style of anti-independence. Jeremy Purvis was allowed to speak uninterrupted. Patrick Harvie was interrupted In his first response by Hayley Millar commenting, “with power over income tax, 23% of all Scottish tax, that’s a pretty big (economic) lever.” Did the highly debatable challenge that income tax devolution is a “pretty big lever” reflect the BBC’s editorial view or was that just the typical Hayley Millar anti-independence bias which we hear at regular intervals when she is interviewing? At the end of the interview, as Patrick Harvie finished a serious point about the potential for Scotland to vote Labour in the 2015 UK general election, but the UK government to be Conservative, would the devolution proposals to be implemented be those of Labour (supported by the Scottish people in their vote) or Conservative. Hayley Miller came in with, “Well that is something we cannot predict in terms of election outcomes in the future.” Rather than choosing to say, ‘well that is a serious point, but we will have to leave it there’ her editorial comment suggested that the serious point was not worth pursuing as the election outcome could not be predicted, again reflecting that fundamental anti-independence bias is affecting her ability to interview in an impartial manner. I have formally complained to the BBC without any expectation of the complaint being upheld. What can you do other than vote yes and look for a change – it’s not going to happen otherwise.
I wasn’t aware that the views of the independence-supporting Scottish Greens are apparently ‘provocative’ and ‘vexatious’.
Indeed I was under the impression that this site only supports independence, and not any particular party.
And equally that it welcomes debate and opinions from across the spectrum, including those of us independence supporters who are opposed to the SNP’s plans to override our democracy after a yes vote.
Am I wrong?
Protesting outside Pacific Quay isn’t a waste of time. It actually sets an example, of course it won’t topple the BBC, I don’t think people are naive in this respect. But what it can do is provide a focus for many, as has been mentioned who possible aren’t as comfortable canvassing etc. It also provides a dynamic and visual expression of discontent with the bias reporting emanating from Pacific Quay. It keeps the the focus on that part of the equation, and the more people find out about it the more will come as it reassures others that they are not alone, so also strenghthening solidarity against the ‘official’ news agency at this historic time. What’s not good about any of that…asked rhetorically!
“while you say your a YES fan, will you actually be voting YES”
Of course.
“whats the point in this constantly repeated off-topic spiel”
Because I believe in democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people and I feel its important to stand up for both those things when they are being overridden.
Duggie. You have deliberately not grasped the situation.
K1 says: Protesting outside Pacific Quay.
They are protesting inside Pacific Quay too – a sure sign staff are very unhappy, morale at an all-time low. You can take it for granted BBC insiders will see protesting outsiders reinforcing their concerns and fears.
Of heres a new twist on an old talking crap theme
BNE…
link to bbc.co.uk
Yes GB…another valid point well made…as per 🙂
“Interviewing Jeremy Purvis, Lib Dem Lord, and Patrick Harvie, Scottish Greens Leader”
It’s certainly good to see Harvie and the Greens getting a wee bit more coverage, its just a shame their independence preferences and plans are virtually unknown to the vast majority of Scots.
Unfortunately, Yes Scotland gives them barely any publicity or promotion, and anyone doing so on this and other sites is immediately abused and attacked by the likes of ‘grouse beater’ who appears to want to stifle the opinions and plans of any other independence party other than the SNP.
@ bigGpolmont, MacQuarrie’s expenses are much like a topish manager of a proftiable company and it looks like the chancer knows that. But ofcourse the BBC isn’t BP or Shell and if any other head of say a university pissed away money like this he’d be finished. MacQuarrie’s BBC biog. says he runs a business employing 1250 staff with a tunrnover “in excess” of £150 million a year but what is that business again? Oh yeh it’s the BBC in Scotland that costs us over £300 million a year in TV tax/licence. So you can see these spurious gits working it even on their own biog page. No wonder he refused to even go to Holyrood and speak about the BBC in public.
It’s just a giant glass box of fraud at a Pacific quay.
@ Duggie there are many fronts to this Yes campain we all play to our strenghts ( I cant chap doors ) I can stand in a street and talk to people & hand out leaflets, exchange ideas with other campainers.If we can spare a few hours of our day in protesting at the BBC its a few hours well spent.
“You have deliberately not grasped the situation”
Which part of the situation am I failing to grasp?
Why isn’t there? Does anyone know?
Duggie
As far as I understand they felt the one last year took up a lot of time and effort and the failure of the TV and press to give it much air time to report it fairly and honestly was disappointing. They have earmarked a lot of money and activist time to other events over the summer where they think they will get more bang for their buck. As I don’t know what these are I can’t comment. They may be right.
I appreciate marches and rallies tend to preach to the converted but they are fun and I really enjoyed going to Calton Hill. I would have been up for another.
@desimond
Thanks for the link.I missed that one.
Folks – I’ll join in the discussion when Stuart imposes his authority. If you want to know how BBC Scotland does and does not work I’ve a few essays on my blogsite.
Otherwise enjoy the latest on the No gang entitled:
The South City Mob.
I’m beginning to agree with you Grouse Beater, re. disruption. Everyone has their own limits, I suppose. 🙂
Duggie
You promised. 🙁
“making the limit 15p instead is a bit like a library lifting its restriction on the number of laser-armed unicorns you can tether to its bike rack from one to six.”
This has to be the best line I’ve read all year 😀
“making the limit 15p instead is a bit like a library lifting its restriction on the number of laser-armed unicorns you can tether to its bike rack from one to six.”
This has to be the best line I’ve read all year 😀
I’m beginning to agree with you Grouse Beater, re. disruption. Everyone has their own limits, I suppose. 🙂
Duggie
You promised. 🙁
“making the limit 15p instead is a bit like a library lifting its restriction on the number of laser-armed unicorns you can tether to its bike rack from one to six.”
This has to be the best line I’ve read all year 😀
G H Graham,
Totally agree. Much as I wholly despise the way in which the state controlled broadcaster, the BBC is being used to spread anti independence propaganda, you are correct, a demo at PQ will have zero impact. They really don’t care what the public think. They are accountable to nobody.
The people in charge at Pacific Quay, know EXACTLY just what they are up to, in their selection of news stories, and bias towards voting NO. This is now a matter of public and academic record.
The BBC has ZERO credibility, and is to my knowledge still funding the anti independence CBI to the tune of 20,000 per year with license payers money.
ONLY a YES vote will clear out rubbish like the BBC Scotland management. I do wish however, that we could get maybe a whistleblower or two, to inform those on the outside about the outrageous managerial abuses taking place within the BBC.
Duggie- YES Scotland does not exist to give any particular party publicity or promotion its a grassroots campaign for promoting the YES vote regardless of party following. Otherwise why would Patrick Harvie and the other greens take part in it. Grousebeater and everyone else who posts their opinion is ‘allowed’ to discuss and debate with any other persons views. If you don’t like GB’s posts I’d suggest get stuck in and debate with them. I’ve had disagreements with GB but I’ve never allowed that to cloud the fact we’re both after the same thing.
@Grousebeater
Loved your latest…scarface and fatface what a duo
Why do people keep feeding the troll??? Seriously, do we really need to put up with this rubbish all day today again??
“And yet, despite that fact, the SNP are planning to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the people of Scotland a choice”.
Look “Duggie”, for the billionth time, the SNP have no mandate to hold a referendum on any of these matters, your tired argument is only succeeding in boring the hell out of the lot of us, and by hijacking threads that are nothing to do with the issues you raise, you are preventing undecideds from gaining knowledge about particular topics. Do give us all some peace, either by addressing this or by pissing off.
“I appreciate marches and rallies tend to preach to the converted”
Presumably they’ve done their research and concluded that the time, effort and money that the last rally took up wasn’t worth it in terms of attracting undecided voters to the cause?
“They have earmarked a lot of money and activist time to other events over the summer”
This ties in with what I’m saying to those advocating protests and marches against the BBC in the month or so before the referendum – the money and time that will cost would be far better spent concentrating on trying to win the referendum.
I highly doubt any undecided voters are going to be convinced to vote yes by protests about the BBC, why would they? If anything they’ll be turned off by it, a lot of ordinary Scots like the BBC and its programs.
Nana Smith says: Loved your latest…scarface and fatface what a duo
That pleases me – feel free to whizz it around Facebook, Infinity and beyond!
ALL protests are a good thing! In Aberdeen yesterday I was waiting for car MOT at Aberdeen City Cooncil depo, KittyBrewster and left a lot of YES cards in the public waiting room, staff canteen and pinned WoS A4 ads on their notice board. Every little helps, is what I say.
Is it just my browser (Firefox), or does the BBC Referendum Poll Tracker not actually track any poll except the last one?
link to bbc.com
What’s the point of that? Where are the trends? Where is the ability to “check key political events along the way”?
Aye Duggie, just think about your future in UK compared to future in Scotland and decide for yourself what you prefer and vote accordingly.
Who cares about your pedantic drivel, we dinnae hae crystal balls
The EBC is just the branch of the establishment which is under the direct control of the ministry of misinformation otherwise known as the secrecy intelligence services, who is directed by sub committee of the privy council, and all under HMQ DIRECTED BY HER GOVERNMENT.
EBC PQ has been given a free hand to do whatever it wants to achieve its objectives under direction and cover of the above via EBC London . They will be rewarded for their efforts no matter what the outcome provided they have tried their best ALL DAMAGE IS ACCEPTABLE, they will be protected and rewarded . They can re indoctrinate us later when the job is complete, they hope.
So long as enough of the lieges vote no and HMG can justify the enslavement of the OIL and the Scottish people then the operation will be judged a complete success and the honours will be distributed freely. They will then set about brainwashing us again and trying to eliminate the memories of their part in the lies and deceit of the population. Back to business as usual.
Well this old guy ain’t for turning they have sown the wind as far as I’m concerned and I will not forgive or forget. This system of government these slugs run is putrid from top to bottom. Their days are numbered. SCOTLAND WILL BE FREE.
McQuarrie, boothman ect are GUARANTEED THEIR REWARD , you can bet your money on that!
“the SNP have no mandate to hold a referendum on any of these matters”
They certainly don’t have a mandate to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership until the Scottish people have given them a mandate to do so, as the Scottish Greens correctly say:
“the Scottish government must recognise that as yet they have no mandate for their policies in reserved areas. From NATO membership to the level of Corporation Tax, they should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016”.
If they’re proposing that Scotland joins a currency union and becomes a member of the EU and Nato then, quite obviously, the people of Scotland have a democratic sovereign right to have a say on those proposals.
…and so we will Duggie,
cheers for that
Even when wronged in various ways, people often display big-heartedness and a willingness to rise above the grievance they feel. But lying and deceit are in a league of their own, and leave a lasting impression. The MSM are in the process of writing their own death certificate.
BBC = guff just went onto their site to spy out their latest
Business group makes Scots EU claim. Basically all the business’s who have already pinned their colours to the union mast say we wont be able to get into the EU for three years.
Do these people never get sick of their negativity?
A day in the life of a no campaigner:-
get up,
put on bbc radio Scotland to hear how wonderful the union is
have breakfast.
spend two hours looking for something about Scotland to criticise.
Watch TV BBC scotland 2014 to ensure sweet dreams.
say something deranged about the referendum and put out as a press release knowing full well it’ll be on GMS in the morning.
Go to bed.
“just think about your future in UK compared to future in Scotland and decide for yourself what you prefer and vote accordingly”
I already have, as I said earlier I’m planning to vote yes.
But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t stand up for democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people does it?
Or that I shouldn’t promote the independence policies and views of an independence-supporting party other than the SNP, particularly on a site which just supports independence and not the SNP’s version of it only?
Duggie, you have made your point, you don’t have to hijack every bloody thread to repeat it, which in turn pisses people off and then they call you a troll.
As Johann Lamont said, these are just wee things.
We need to get a YES vote before we can make these wee things into big things. Its very simple, if the majority of the people of Scotland want to come out of Europe, Nato etc then we do that. Its called democracy.
Is it logistically possible to organise a mass cancellation of BBC licence fees on the same day? I’m thinking the day after the referendum, regardless of the result.
I’d love to tell that dug to GTF, but I have no mandate to do so.
Scotland is already in the EU and NATO.
The SNP have no democratic mandate to remove Scottish citizens from these organisations.
Lucky we have elections in 2016 to determine a Scottish independent government. This is what Better Together with UKIP are trying to prevent at all costs.
Duggie all you’re doing is fudging the referendum. We’re on democratic timeline for Scotland as a nation state and it can go for centuries or be stopped dead in September by all our BetterTogether chums at the BBC etc.
Don’t reply to trolls
Where’s Stu?
Gordon Brown saying a untitled deal on devolution needed before sept 18th
link to scotsman.com
while he’s going around Scotland,slagging off better together about the way currency union NO,was put to scottish people.
he’s in his own wee bubble
I do hope there is another protest at PQ this month. At least I will have longer than an hour to make my placard this time.
united
Just been on the TV Licence page, seems I would need to request a refund, I pay by direct debit, and as I wish simply to cancel I shall do as I was going to and cancel it in time for the referendum. Mass cancellation around that time would be excellent. We do not need a propaganda machine aka the BBC/EBC, we seem to manage fine presently without it.
“Scotland is already in the EU and NATO”
Its not a member of either of those organisations, and it isn’t in a currency union.
“The SNP have no democratic mandate to remove Scottish citizens from these organisations”
Where did I say they should remove us from either? I’m saying we, the people of Scotland, have a right to have a say on whether we want Scotland to become a member of the EU and Nato, and form a currency union.
Do you disagree?
“Lucky we have elections in 2016”
It will be too late by then, at least for the short term. The SNP are planning to push us into the above BEFORE the 2016 elections.
Every Party can and does give it’s policies. It’s who voters chose to believe and credibility.
Sorry I mentioned Duggie was back, seems Duggie has never heard of the expression “Divide and Conquer”, Well Duggie we have and that is what you are doing. Stop it now.
Duggie, your talking mince.
Would be great to get a large number to cancel on the same date together. I have friends south of the border who would gladly do the same. They’re fed up watching the BBC’s love-in with Farage and Co.
Rev’s away playing with a cat. And you know what they say – when the cat’s away the mice will play with the dug.
Go to your bed! Bad!
loggin keeps disapearing,ur the DDOS back.
Duggie,
If it looks like undecided voters could be swayed to vote YES by an announcement that a YES vote will be quickly followed by further referenda (on EU, NATO, UN membership and currency options) then I’m sure that’s what will happen.
At the moment though the indyref is the only game in town.
I’m a democrat too, but I can accept the idea that we already use the pound and we already live in an EU and NATO member state, therefore the SNP’s policies on these issues are effectively status quo.
Anyone got any gravy bones?
I’ll hold the door open, you rattle the bones, get him out, then chuck them up the back of the garden, nip back in and we’ll lock him out!
Sorted!
“seems Duggie has never heard of the expression “Divide and Conquer”, Well Duggie we have and that is what you are doing. Stop it now”
Are the Scottish Greens engaging in ‘divide and conquer’ too when they, rightly, point out that the referendum is simply a vote for independence and does not give anyone a mandate to enact any policies?
Are they also engaging in ‘divide and conquer’ when they stand up for democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people by saying that:
“The Scottish government should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016”.
The independence campaign is diverse and inclusive, people such as myself who don’t support the SNP’s version of independence and who prefer the views and plans of other parties should certainly not be attacked and abused and castigated by supposedly fellow independence supporters for doing so, particularly on sites which aren’t linked to any particular party.
Oh FFS, he’s started whining and scraping the door…
A troll’s first line of defence is to take the accusers complaints and claim the other side is the aggressor.
You must ask yourselves – who is making the first approach and then sustaining the egregious comments?
Open the window and play this full blast – might shut him up for a while…
link to youtube.com
Great work Rev.
I had a good read through the papers online and despair that our journo’s are allowed to print their lies without recourse. Everyone here has heard it all before but in my opinion the propaganda is working. I find each time someone talks ref it’s the lies and scaremongering that get through. And i always feel i am repeating myself.It’s hard work being a YES voter.
I know the default thinking is NO and i try hard to get the messages over that we CAN do better, but for the last few weeks ,it’s been frustrating and really really annoying that my fellow Scots have such a poor belief in themselves .
After half an hour of chat to a mate the other night , explaning the lies and benefits of iScotland he said “am still a NO”
He couldn’t give me ONE reason for the union, not one but took everything i said as ” aye ye might be right there but am still a NO”
No matter how much i tell him, show him, he’s still a NO. Now i don’t mind that , it’s his own choice, but the blindness of some really does get me down. What chance for our nation with people like him. He just doesn’t have a reason for NO voting , it is just to him “the right thing to do.”
He took the wind out of my sails with his attitude. And worse ………… he’s the majority of folk i have spoken too. It’s like a stuck record.
The MSM will ruin our chance of independence , More than anything they have contributed to lie after lie and it is working. The BBC especially .
I am gonna take a day off and try and perk myself up . Stay away from TV and even my PC. My confidence has been shattered and i cannot do anything about it. As soon as the news comes on they are back to NO.
He’s a really nice guy but typical of the NO voters i have met. Blind to possibilities or hope. He has a job and security and can’t see independence as anything more than rockin the boat.
After weeks of chat and showing him videos and the like he goes home and switches back to default. I wouldn’t believe him if he said tmoz he was a YES voter now. As soon as the telly’s on poooff back to NO.
I am really worried now.
@ Ian Brotherhood Is dem bones dem bones dem dry bones nae
marrow in dem they jist Prattle.
@ronnie anderson –
I’m all for letting sleeping dogs lie, but how do you get them to sleep in the first place?
Have you seen the Gordon Brown Vision-Fest in the Record?
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
There will be a TEAM SCOTLAND (including the Green Party) negotiating our independence – NOT JUST THE SNP.
They will conduct the negotiations until agreement is reached on both Scottish and rUK. There will be elections in Scotland, and the first act of the new Parliament will be to ratify the Independence settlement (including terms of joining EU, NATO, whatever), as rUK will do in Westminster. There will be no SNP stitch-up.
THEN Scotland will be free to make whatever decisions it likes. If the Green Party want out of EU & NATO, win an election first.
@Duggie
Yeah, the SNP don’t have a mandate to do this or that, but the SNP are still a political party and as a political party they’re supposed to do exactly what it says in their manifesto, or whatever they stand for.
(Disclaimer: This doesn’t count for the Labour party however, who’ll just promise voters everything they want before screwing them all if they ever get into power!)
Whining about the SNP is just as bad as those people who go “I’m voting No because I don’t like Alex Salmond”. Those people instantly lose all credibility the moment those words leave their mouths as far as I’m concerned.
You don’t like the SNP? Nobody is gonna force you to vote for them!
You like the Greens? Good for you. Wait till after independence and vote for them!
Vote for whoever you like after independence. But right now, digging up the differences between parties is just a ridiculously transparent attempt to divide the parties who make up the Yes campaign.
Infighting will kill the campaign much faster than taking the time to shout at the BBC.
Going off-topic and posting the same divisive stuff again and again and again and again is probably not a wise move if the Rev is in a bad mood. Just some friendly advice there…!
Cancelling the BBC licence fee (TV Tax) is an action that will only satisfy the individual. It will have no other effect except perhaps to cause the automated mailing machine to switch into overdrive & send you dozens of warning letters.
Scotland provides around 9% of the £3.6 billion the BBC collects in licence fees & around 6.5% of the £5.1 billion in total receipts.
It would take hundreds of thousands, if not at least a million or so, of the current Scottish audience to withdraw their payments, to have any meaningful financial effect.
I don’t see any evidence that there are anywhere near that number of people defiant enough to risk a fine just to send the BBC a message.
The easy & completely legal way is to vote YES in September & then lobby the Scottish government to establish a new public broadcaster that operates within a new democratic & accountable framework.
@Duggie
1) By your logic Scotland is not a signatory to any international agreement of convention.
2) Therefore, what is your solution for dealing with, say UNCLOS, or treaties on nuclear non-proliferation, the Convention on Human Rights, the Ramsar Convention, etc.? Or does your concern for people power only stretch to those issues of NATO, the EU and the currency, which are, by a remarkable coincidence I’m sure, what dim-witted Unionists perceive to be weaknesses in the case for independence?
3) Consequently, we would be grateful for your practical solution, with a feasible timeline. Thanks.
@desimond
The BBC are pushing BNE, whose report says Scotland would be thrown out of the EU, would take at least 3 years to get back in and would probably have to commit to the Euro and Schengen.
The advisory board of BNE has representatives from RBoS, Scottish Power, Amazon and BT (the phone people not the other lot), all acting in a “personal” capacity, all of whom are presumably keen to see Scotland being disadvantaged if we have the temerity to vote YES.
Can you separate the “personal” views of the Chairmen/MDs of companies from the views of the companies themselves?
YESGUY
It’s not easy for us enlightened ones to suffer fools 🙂
There’s plenty folk out there willing to look at the evidence and change their views though. Just move on to the next one mate.
G H Graham
The BBC is effectively a Ministry of State Propaganda working on behalf of & to the benefit of, the British Establishment.
What is the Establishment? It’s the apparatus of the British State including Westminster, Whitehall, the BBC itself, the Royal family, the armed forces, aristocrats & privileged individuals in control of quangos & agencies with significant levels of authority over you.
Decades of propaganda & thus conditioning of the public have convinced many that it is an impartial provider of data, information & news.
This is pretty much how I view the situation. The BBC is an integral part of the British state and establishment.
In regards to the poster ‘Duggie’: I cannot help but see his posts as being astonishingly similar to a certain former poster. The style is almost the exact same. The individual in question pretended to be an independence supporter. However, they attacked Salmond and the SNP more than they did the Unionists. No matter the topic the poster in question would use the same tactic.
“Wings Over Scotland advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP…We have an inquiring mind, and actively welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate”
Its a great shame that a large number of this site’s users are going against the key principles of the site by trying to turn it into a forum that only tolerates the SNP’s version of independence alone, and refuses to allow the policies, views and plans of any other independence parties to be aired.
Anyone who dares to query any aspect of the SNP’s plans, or discuss the independence plans and views of parties like the Scottish Greens, is immediately met with a torrent of abusive attacks from the likes of ‘grouse beater’, designed to try to drive them off so that he can have his SNP-only wee love-in.
Let’s hope the site administrator sticks to the principles of his site and does something about the likes of ‘grouse beater’ who wants to stifle debate and prevent the Scottish people being given access to alternative independence views to those of the SNP.
@ Ian Brotherhood,crush some Diazapam into the watter bowl,
worked fur me Snzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
O/T
It appears that Gideon is getting torn to threads by the EU over his fiscal policy.
It appears they would like more than a housing bubble to increase growth.
AW
I have to say I have never heard of BNE before. How many new players are the BBC prepared to give top billing to exactly? It seems to me that they will give a leg up to any old nonsense as long as it is No. They are actually worse than the No supporting papers in this respect.
“There will be a TEAM SCOTLAND (including the Green Party) negotiating our independence – NOT JUST THE SNP”
In which case, perhaps you could explain why the SNP have insisted that the outcome of the negotiations will be a currency union and membership of Nato, despite the Greens and several other independence parties being strongly opposed to both those things?
Why would the Greens be part of a team negotiating for things they are opposed to?
As a long standing member of the Green Party, I would just like to point out that that wee yappy thing is making a lot of silly noises.
“the SNP are still a political party and as a political party they’re supposed to do exactly what it says in their manifesto”
Correct. Once they’ve put currency union and EU/Nato membership in a manifesto (or referendum) and the Scottish people have voted for them, then of course they will have a mandate to do exactly what their manifesto says.
As the Scottish Greens say:
“The Scottish government must recognise that as yet they have no mandate for their policies in reserved areas. From
NATO membership to the level of Corporation Tax, they should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016”
@ronnie Anderson –
Diazapam? It’ll take me a few days to get that stuff…
I nipped out there and bought some sausage meat, will make the dug a burger with half a dozen solpadol in it. Last time I had to take that stuff I fell asleep on the couch.
(Mind you, the dug’s not allowed on the couch…)
“As a long standing member of the Green Party, I would just like to point out that that wee yappy thing is making a lot of silly noises”
As a ‘long standing member’ of the Greens, I find it very odd that you think their view on independence and the mandate a yes vote gives is ‘silly’.
But then I also found it very odd that a ‘long standing member’ of the Greens would spend several hours the other night attacking and abusing someone who was promoting the independence plans and views of the Greens.
As I said at the time, I don’t doubt that you’re a long standing member of a political party, but it certainly isn’t the Greens.
I like Dougie’s posts. It reminds me of the advantage we have in the debate.
It truly is a remarkable the comparison between open minded thinkers and those who have been wound up and pointed in our direction by party dogma.
We grasp the basic concept of achieving the right to have a say FIRST. Without that ability all views and opinions are out of reach.
I don’t know what the final direction of an Independent Scotland will be. However I have a sense of what the general move will be.
Why am I happy with that – because I know the direction of travel of the UK without independence and that scares the shit out of me!
“By your logic Scotland is not a signatory to any international agreement of convention”
Well obviously not, its not a sovereign state.
The Better Together with UKIP parties are united in all their policies to prevent Scotland being a country running its own affairs.
Scots will continue to use the pound, be a part of the EU and contribute to NATO until it elects a government that pledges otherwise.
Graham says: I don’t see any evidence that there are anywhere near that number of people defiant enough to risk a fine just to send the BBC a message.
Whilst not disagreeing with your general point, there is this…
Disillusion is evident in the crash of viewing figures for the superficial, utterly banal, celebrities-and-laughs, Sarah Smith Show. (“Scotland 2014”)
Duggie,
Any chance of a comment from you that’s on topic for this thread or are you just going to carry on nit picking over the SNP manifesto?
Many of us don’t agree with everything the SNP represents or indeed intends to do. Nevertheless, it is the only party that has offered & achieved a referendum.
If a YES vote is achieved in September, all it does is provide us with a mandate for independence. Sure there are lots of consequences but only loony tunes assert that a black hole will appear over Leith Docks & swallow all our money/cell phones/food/pensions etc.
Let’s get a YES vote then we can argue who’s best to run the next majority government in charge of Scotland.
somebody on here better stayaway from the Grouse Moors, their libel to get shot by a blunderbus.
“Scots will continue to use the pound, be a part of the EU and contribute to NATO until it elects a government that pledges otherwise”
It is disingenuous to try to pretend that forming a currency union and becoming a member of the EU and Nato is a ‘continuation’ of what we have now, or the ‘status quo’, it isn’t.
Unlike the SNP, the Scottish Greens believe that the people of Scotland have a right to decide for ourselves whether we want Scotland to become a member of EU/Nato and form a currency union:
“the Scottish government must recognise that as yet they have no mandate for their policies in reserved areas. From NATO membership to the level of Corporation Tax, they should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016”
Ian – I think you mentioned earlier that you thought tonight’s head to head, on Scotland2014, was between oor Nicola and Douglas Alexander – well, Jackie the bird has just confirmed it on lunchtime news. Must admit, I couldn’t really see it being Danny Alexander, who, as a Muppet, only has cotton wool balls. 🙂
Grouse Beater said: A troll’s first line of defence is to take the accusers complaints and claim the other side is the aggressor.
Troll replied: Let’s hope the site administrator sticks to the principles of his site and does something about the likes of ‘grouse beater’ who wants to stifle debate and prevent the Scottish people …
Meet you all on a new thread topic end of the week, folks.
We welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the debate
Guess where you’re going wrong?
Hint : Repetition can be done by a disc of shellac
“Any chance of a comment from you that’s on topic for this thread”
See my earlier comments on the topic of the thread.
“If a YES vote is achieved in September, all it does is provide us with a mandate for independence”
Exactly! That is exactly what I and the Scottish Greens are saying.
Presumably therefore you agree that the SNP have no mandate to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the people of Scotland a say first?
Did the BBC cover UKIP’s pledge to work to overturn a Yes vote?
As UKIP are now the most popular force within the Better Together cross party alliance you would think they would get front page coverage.
@Training Day
Sanjeev Kohli is part of the YES campaign. I can’t imagine him coming out with “unionist witterings” or whatever it was you wrote so far above I can’t find it anymore. It’s a pity I can’t respond directly under the post I’m responding to.
Ahh so its wee Doogie, my MP, and the chap who has delivered for Paisley and Renfrewshire heehaw! Hopefully Nicola has some difficult questions for him lined up, as we have seen when interviewed by A Neil recently, he has the potential to crumble. Anyone know if he turned up to vote down the bedroom tax, or was he another SLab who had to be elsewhere.
“Meet you all on a new thread topic end of the week, folks”
Yes you already said you were leaving about an hour ago, try not to prolong the goodbye.
Ronnie Anderson says
“@ John King laser armed Unicorns, Irene get John oota that romper room he’s playin wie the Barbie toys. Big Smilies”
How did you know I have a romper room?
EVEN BIGGER SMILES
thanks for your good wishes for our daughters wedding, looking forwasrd to it 🙂
Duggie,
What are you looking for people on here to say to you? Are you looking for agreement? Accept that people have different views to you, just like others have accepted your view (they may not agree with them but by God they are aware of them). At the very least you could move on and discuss something else for a wee change as continuing on the same subject does seem a bit troll-ish to some? I’m sure people are interested in hearing what you have to say on other matters.
As the Scottish Greens say:
“The Scottish government must recognise that as yet they have no mandate for their policies in reserved areas. From
NATO membership to the level of Corporation Tax, they should not lock Scotland in to their preferred policies, unless the Scottish people give them a mandate to do so in 2016?
Duggie,
After the Referendum in September produces a Yes result, it will be a further 18 months approx before The Scottish Government or anyone else in Scotland can call themselves ‘Independent’.
Forget a mandate, the legal right to negotiate membership of Nato will not exist until Spring 2016.
Just in time for the next Scottish Elections, when the issue of mandates will be resolved by the Scottish Electorate.
It sounds like the Greens are tripping over themselves in their rush to go somewhere.
It’s quite alarming that the BBC are not enabling OneNation Labour to speak out against UKIP wishing to disband the Scottish Parliament, provide tax cuts to the wealthiest and scrap maternity pay (to name a few policies).
They seem to have a ban on reporting serious disunity in the Better Together with UKIP campaign to stop Scotland running its own affairs.
The BBC need to stop highlighting Gordon Brown’s economic criticism of Alistair Darling and Ed Balls and concentrate on issues more relevant to the bulk of people living in Scotland.
@G H Graham
Any chance of a comment from you that’s on topic for this thread or are you just going to carry on nit picking over the SNP manifesto?
About the same chance as Margaret Curran et al publically admitting they are against independence because they want to preserve their careers, perks in London…
Brian
Hardeep Kohli is a Yes, Sanjeev, as far as I know, is undecided.
“Accept that people have different views to you”
I just find it almost impossible to believe that any independence supporter (and I’m assuming almost everyone here is that) has a view different from the belief that the people of Scotland are sovereign and therefore have a right to have a say on crucial issues such as whether Scotland forms a currency union and becomes a member of the EU and Nato.
Surely thats one of the key reasons to support independence, so that the Scottish people have more democracy and direct sovereignty over the issues that affect us?
But you’re right, I won’t go on about it – although I am just responding to points and questions people are asking me here.
“About the same chance as….”
Perhaps you should have looked back through the thread to see my on-topic comments earlier and save yourself looking silly?
“Forget a mandate, the legal right to negotiate membership of Nato will not exist until Spring 2016”
In which case, why on earth are the SNP claiming they will negotiate membership of Nato and the EU, and negotiate to form a currency union between 2014 and 2016, and that they expect those negotiations to be concluded by independence day in March 2016?
Are they wrong?
Someone’s ill fitting mask is slipping.
Looks like we’re stuck with him. Let’s see if he can be taught to do any of these:
link to youtube.com
Is there a competition on today to see who can say the same thing in as many different ways as possible?
@ Duggie
“I just find it almost impossible to believe that any independence supporter (and I’m assuming almost everyone here is that) has a view different from the belief that the people of Scotland are sovereign and therefore have a right to have a say on crucial issues such as whether Scotland forms a currency union and becomes a member of the EU and Nato.
Surely thats one of the key reasons to support independence, so that the Scottish people have more democracy and direct sovereignty over the issues that affect us?”
You might be right, you might be wrong, but one thing is certain, going on about it has made everyone switch off to your argument so your reasoning may well be falling upon deaf ears.
@Duggie : despite that fact, the SNP are planning to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the people of Scotland a choice.
These are the existing positions, so the SNP aren’t actually planning to change c the status quo wrt NATO or currency.
We have to trust them to take this through as far as the 2016 election, and preserving as much of the status quo as possible while negotiating independence is a very fair and sensible way to do it. After that the SNP either get their mandate renewed or we elect another flavour of government with a mandate to take us out of NATO, currency union etc. if that is what we want.
People need at least a small degree of certainty about some aspects of the immediate outcome of a YES vote. Not the ‘all impossiible questions about the future must be answered NOW‘ nonsense we get from the NO campaign, but assurances of a certain degree of continuity are essential, or all the YES campaign is offering is immediate chaos after a YES vote. That will scare too many horses.
Duggie – I wouldn’t describe the SNP plans re EU and NATO as pushing the country ‘into’ anything, as we are already in. Any future debates will be about the action of coming out, not going in. Legitimate aspirations, but studies of polls show that adding qualifiers to independence only drops the overall vote in favour. The SNP have approached this the right way, I think, to only have placed before us one variable, not many.
Oh God, it’s Ground-Dug Day again.
But you’re right, I won’t go on about it
“Second indication of a troll is a bizarre absence of any self-awareness, or the ability to learn from experience. The third is indication of a quick temper, aggression activated when faced with dissent. Lastly, there is an all-too obvious determination to keep attention on that one particular person.” Grouse Beater Essay on, “Abuse of Social Media by Governments and Individuals.”
Topic here is: “BBC misinformation.”
I belive protests outside Pacific Quay could be very effective. People respect the BBC and if they find out there are protests about them they will want to know why and that’s one giant can of worms for the BT mob. Our case against them is copper bottomed. Rev Stu has enough material to publish several very thick volumes on the subject. But how would the general public find out about the protests if they’re not reported? Well, remember there are unhappy people inside PQ as well as without. If protests outside can help precipitate a strike there will be no programs and the BBC won’t be able to hide that.
Loony tunes in teamGB media today though, Micheal White in vote no Guardian’s having better together hysterics, BBC Scotland belching out massive rancid out of EU so vote no ya ungrateful bams and open sewer Daily Mail’s biggest blow of vote no/vote Tory rage I’v ever seen, since yesterday’s.
Good times!
Don’t forget Crash Gordon’s vote no re re re re re re re re re re re relaunch of Gordon says vote no, sponsored by Severin Carrell in a wig and a nice summer frock.
Duggie, you are not being attacked or abused, you are indulging in quite classic passive agrressive rhetoric, can’t say behaviour cause we’re writing stuff…and I can’t read your body language.
What I can say…is that you are repeating over and over the same points, many have responded with very patient and common sense answers or explanations to your repeated points. When others, with humour are attempting to point this very thing out, you then accuse and attack them…for acutally just noticing what you are in fact repeatedly saying.
It is you who is refusing a dialogue here, it’s like you are just stuck on repeat, irrespective of what others are saying, you invalidate every point with further assertions of your original point. That is a passive aggressive ‘technique’. The ‘point’ you’re arguing for has been discussed at length by others, it’s the very obvious fact of the lack of ‘effect’ that has on your thinking or output, because you just return to your original point, that is now under discussion.
When the discussion, quite naturally moves to addressing this, you resort to accusing others of attacking and abusing your points. And to really get some traction on this your insert words like ‘democracy’ or allude to ‘freedom’ of expression and the like. In other words the aggressive aspect of your passive aggressive approach reveals itself.
It’s like you are saying: Look I’m a straight up person with a valid point. People respond: Sure, good question, let me try to explain it. Then you: Yeah but…repeat point. Others comment: This, that, the other. Then you: But…but…but. Then others: Sigh…Then you: You’re attacking me…ad nauseum.
You have another aim in this. As others are naturally pointing out. That’s not attacking or abusing your input. That’s just common sense noticing that you are not satisfied with any response.
So what is it you want, no…please do not answer that you feel it’s undemocratic for the elected to a devolved parilament government to represent us in negotiations when in fact they have no remit to do so…that has been explained over and over again along with all similar points you have made within this context.
So what is it you really want Duggie?
Let me just simply speculate, attention. It simply cannot be anything but attention. But, more importantly…negative atttention…do you want us to attack you, or abuse you? Or do you want to provoke an aggressive respone so that you can ‘claim’ as you are doing that this site is full of SNP supporters with no dissenting voices, such as yours, allowed.
It’s not going to happen Duggie, no matter how many ways you attempt to make out that is what is happening. Any one can read the thread…and all the other threads, and see it all outlined for what it is: someone acting like a dug wi a bone, who just won’t let go…for fear…of something. Only you know what your fear is, and it isn’t been caused by anyone on here, no one is threatening you or your views, and no one is buying your ‘unheard voice of reasonable concern’ either.
The sun’s out…go for a wee walk. Contrary to some beliefs, the sky won’t actually fall in after September 19th, although the forecast from some quarters would have us think otherwise. Change your perspective to change your outlook.
Douggie son:
Thanks for your “ahm” input to the we hate “ahm” Alexsalminn and the SNP. Now why don’t you take yer wee motors and go play on the M8, there’s a good wean, don’t rush back Noo. We’ll gie yi a shout when yer teas oot.
Regards
O/t
I decided to change my postal vote to an ordinary vote so I went on line to find my local Electoral Registration Office which is in Fife Council. To cut a long story short, it was difficult to find and the online question/answer section refused to work . I then had to phone Fife Council on a premium number and spoke to a very helpful girl who tried to persuade me to keep my postal vote!! I now have to put in writing that I want to change my vote.
Fife Council is a Labour Council so I complained about the online site etc. A Labour council , with not very good communications! Hmmm.
Calcacus MacAndrews over on OfF Topic Wilderness Of Piece
disemination of Neil Oliver’s historical missconseptions.
Come on guys. This is not the “Dougie v. the rest” post. Can we get back on topic and stop this useless and counter-productive argument.
If anyone cares much at all, Press and journal in Aberdeen seems to have eased off on their own BetterTogether spectacular project fear fest and now focus completely on local news or at least seem to, so something is up in that clown show. Maybe P&J are a lot more sensitive to sales drops or maybe having a wee project fear break, in the Ross Clinic.
@ Flower of Scotland. You need to look for a free alternative number via SAYNOTO0870.com
@Duggie
What would your proposed procedure be (with timeline) for deceiding whether an Independent Scotland remains/becomes a signatory to UNCLOS, the Ramsar Convention, the Human Rights Convention, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, etc., etc.?
I am reapeating my question because you did not answer it the first time and we’d all like to hear your practical solution to this vital problem.
Can you imagine a ‘Cabinet’ made up of those leading the No Campaign ?
David Cameron
George Osborne
Alistair Darling
Danny Alexander
Alistair Carmichael
Johann Lamont
Jackie Baillie
Douglas Alexander
Ruth Davidson
Gordon Brown.
Now, can you imagine Scottish/UK Politics without these
‘stars’ in the line up?
Would any of them be missed ?
Freedom of speech is all very nice and all that, but when it is abused by a single person continually posting the same rubbish over, and over, and over again, it gets very very tiresome.
Rev, it gets really tiresome for your readers having to wade through post after post of useless crap by a single individual, on the same theme day after day after day, just to follow a discussion. You know what I’m talking about, why not do something about it?
We all can see what he is doing. Can we stop pretending???
Fed up, pissed off, etc.. etc.
“a large number of this site’s users are going against the key principles of the site by trying to turn it into a forum that only tolerates the SNP’s version of independence alone”
Dear God, look, people in general, anywhere, including on this site just don’t like hearing the same thing being repeated over and over again. If you came on here and repeatedly stated that you thought Alex Salmond was amazing every other day without saying much else, we’d all be equally fed up with it.
I suggest you crawl back to the old folk’s home that is the Scotsman forum where you and other demented fools mumble the same repetitive shite day in day out in the vain hope that someone will listen… as you’re not going to be allowed to drag Wings down to the same level. Got it?
@Flower of Scotland ooh don’t get me started about Fife Council! Can’t relay it here but they’ve been up to some properly dodgy stuff which I was unlucky enough to be caught out by.
Back on topic.
Just had a conversation with a friend who is part of a ladies group anyway she was telling me some of the ladies think there should be some intervention from the electoral commission regards the bbc still peddling lies. A few stated the commission is more likely pro union so she is asking where do we go for help.
Also she says after yesterdays devo rot nonsense and the mori poll saying women were reluctant to go for yes they had a wee poll amongst themselves and the outcome was
28 yes 1 undecided.
Sigh.
The time waster of choice on all independence threads these days. Someone starts issuing opinions about the EU and claiming they’re fact.
Please, everyone, get it into your heads that yapping about the EU is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. We are not in a position to do ANYTHING about it. We need independence before any of this will make any difference at all.
Duggie, we get that you don’t like the SNP ideas. But since they are a majority government and the Greens, who I tend to agree with on a lot, have a position of also ran Scotland gets run along SNP grounds. If you want a referendum on Europe I’ll happily go along with that, but please, leave it alone until September 19th.
There’s also the point which tends to go unmentioned; we’re part of the EU now. The suggestion that the EU will expel five million or so Scots and place however many EU nationals from other states in an immigration blank spot seems highly laughable. So I would contend what you are looking for is a way out referendum, not a don’t join.
As for the Euro. Don’t believe the propaganda. Being in the EU is not an automatic ‘you must take the Euro.’ It’s an agreement to take it at some future date BUT with a caveat that you must abide by a series of voluntary economic rules before you do so. Means in principle, like Sweden, Scotland could agree to take the Euro and then deliberately miss satisfying the rules and stick with whatever currency we want.
See Doug Daniel’s excellent piece on the Euro on this very site. Just in case there’s still any confusion on the point, that is.
Robert Louis
Like
You won’t see this on the BBC either, Tory ministers claim welfare cuts, will help Scottish children out of poverty. A report sent to the EU by Westminster minsters claims, slashing benefits for the most vulnerable, is actually helping them.
The Scottish Government have reacted with fury, Eileen Campbell, children’s minster,said it was insulting to that the Tories would lie and drive more children into poverty.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Patrick Harvie, backs up your analysis Rev, on the flawed tax proposals, by the unionists.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Has he been pestering you lot again?
“These are the existing positions”
“I wouldn’t describe the SNP plans re EU and NATO as pushing the country ‘into’ anything, as we are already in”
Scotland is not a member of either the EU or Nato, and it isn’t in a currency union with a separate state.
I must thank you Duggie, but for you I would’nt have read
Calcacus MacAndrews over in Off Topic Wilderness of Piece,
very tranquil thread.
Noo gie’s piece.
Rev theirs only so much crap ah kin take before ah start
rantin, an ah dont want to go back tae that stage, ma
heids puggled as is.
“What would your proposed procedure be (with timeline)”
I would suggest a referendum in early 2015 in which the people of Scotland can have a say on all important issues that will affect an independent Scotland – so whether we want a currency union, whether we want to become a member of the EU and Nato, and any other such decisions that people of a sovereign democratic nation are normally allowed to vote on.
‘Team Scotland’ can then negotiate with a full mandate from the people of Scotland, based on what we want our independent nation to be like on independence day in March 2016.
It won’t delay the negotiations particularly because let’s face it, rUK aren’t even going to start negotiating until after the 2015 general election.
And if it does push back the March 2016 independence day a few months, so what? Its more important we have a democratic say on what we want our country to be like than Salmond getting the glory of being the leader on independence day (rather than the possibility of it being pushed back till after the election and him being voted out).
O/T.
Who are “Business for new Europe, they claim Scotland would take at least three years to gain entry to the EU.
link to eveningtimes.co.uk
@Training Day, 10.10am
@Brian Fleming, 1.49pm
Can’t speak for Sanjeev Kohli but I’d stake my hat that he’s a “Yes”.
However, the owners of Fine Stripe Productions, which is the indie company commissioned to produce “Blethering” are most certainly dyed-in-the-wool Unionists. And it is they (along with their BBC overseer) who will have the final say over the content which is eventually aired in the programme – not Sanjeev.
Re previous post,found them they’re definitely against Scottish independence.
link to bnegroup.org
Duggie …vanish. you’re just here to stir.
Guys, best ignore him. The guy is obvious a troll pretending to support ‘Yes’ when it is just denouncement after denouncement. The boy has nothing to say. Just ignore his posts.
Rev Stu and Wingers
Apologies if you’ve seen this already but thought you might be interested in this.
Even our new-found ally, the Sunday Herald, was somewhat dismissive about the validity of Prof John Robertson’s research into BBC bias. Here the tenacious Prof pens his response to the SH, as picked up by Media Lens:
link to members5.boardhost.com
It will be interesting to see whether the SH publishes any of this next weekend!
(Can someone tell me how to list these as links rather than just addresses?! Ta!)
@Duggie
You and your Green party friends seem to think that the outcome of the last Holyrood election was less than clear. You may think that the SNP’s policies wrt the referendum were opaque on those issues but they were anything but. Perhaps you missed the pain they went through at that party conference in Perth where NATO membership was accepted as a policy position? I didn’t and it was well covered in the media. So if you voted SNP you voted in the full knowledge that an SNP government of iScotland would seek NATO membership and their pro EU stance was similarly no secret.
So what if they are currently reserved matters? They were formal SNP policies. They won a majority at Holyrood expounding them. Suck it up.
I gave my party vote to the Greens at both of the last two Holyrood elections. Your position is making me reconsider that decision if your misinformed and anti-democratic views are the norm in the Greens.
If you want to campaign on a Eurosceptic or Neutrality ticket post 19th September then you will be perfectly free to do so. But don’t expect to win just because you want to and don’t pretend a party that wins a majority at Holyrood has no mandate for policies they made plain before the election.
Re above:
Oh, it’s posted automatically as a link. Good-oh!
Also she says after yesterdays devo rot nonsense and the mori poll saying women were reluctant to go for yes
A media full of stories about how ‘women don’t support independence’ may in all probability make ladies more honest with pollsters. I love the way in 2011 women told pollsters they planned to vote Labour right up until the last few weeks then promptly went out and ensured the SNP won a massive landslide and Scotland got its referendum.
Unionists should be careful about this one.
Grouse Beater’s comment at 11:43 sadly proven right.
Quinie frae Angus – it’s the magic of Wings. 🙂
I have been on a previous demo against BBC bias which wasn’t quite as well attended as this seems to have been.(The demo was in 2012. Apparently the plan had been to have more demos, but it all petered out.)
Funnily enough I have felt since the 80s that the BBC was slippery with the truth. I remember the miners’ strike and how the media helped the Thatcher government defeat the miners. Quite some victory, because they had turned round the public’s general respect previously for the miners into one of vilification. Then there was the Balkan campaign and Iraq etc., etc..
My own offspring have been brought up with a natural scepticism towards the media in general and so they have all emerged as natural Yes voters. However, outside of my own household it always felt a bit lonely saying that I was cynical about our media and earned quite a few sidelong glances.
Now it appears more and more people feel this way I don’t feel like the little boy with the Emperor’s new clothes. I have heard people say that they believed the BBC until this campaign so it seems the BBC itself is turning a part of its audience against them with blatantly biased reporting.
Yes, I do think demos work – not in convincing the BBC but in letting people know that their own perceptions are shared. So I will try hard to be on the next demo.
This is turning into a repetitive bore!( oh, at least Duggie is!)
Can we not talk about something more serious, something fresh, rather than pander to this guy’s ego!It is a pain, just what he wants it to be ignore him, he has had the answers we can give, end of.
Thanks for that BetterTogether BNE link. They really are disgraceful outfit. So this next cluster of City/Tory boys say Scotland is out of the EU for the 18th September meaning that everyone in Scotland is no longer an EU citizen and no longer has EU freedom of movement does it.
Suppose it might scare a few EU mainland voters away fromYES but it’s kind of hard to envisage flying Aberdeen Berlin or Schiphol on the 19th and getting told, nah mate youre not getting in, get back on that flight.
@Brian Fleming
Sanjeev Kohli is not part of the Yes campaign. You may be confusing him with Hardeep Singh Kohli.
@Quinie from Angus
Sanjeev Kohli appeared on one of the BBC Tuesday night referendum debates and was introduced as undecided. He then proceeded to moan, BT style, about how awful it was to have so many uncertainties..
Labour is issuing 100.000 cards with the words on them “I’m voting no”, instead of the usual literature,which involved pro-UK tracts etc. Johann Lamont said, “Scottish Labour (Which doesn’t exist) is proud to say we will vote no, I say as a proud Scot, that I will vote no”.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Yup the BNE don’t even mention real world stuff like post independence EU movement of people and goods from and to Scotland. Biggest thing for these guys is EU states blocking Scotland and they use Finland entry as 2019 earliest Scotland entry example. What a surprise, BetterTogether BBC love that best of all.
Just read this story on BBC Online:
Scottish independence: Westminster parties pandering to UKIP, says Salmond
link to bbc.co.uk
Mr McClymont, a Scottish Labour MP, said: “Alex Salmond should step away from the keyboard when he is angry late at night.
“It seems the nationalists can’t help themselves misleading the people of Scotland about the consequences of separation.
“Immigration has been good for Scotland. People coming to work here from elsewhere in the world make a valuable contribution to our economy and culture.
“The fact is that being part of the UK makes pensions in Scotland more affordable. Expert opinion is clear that one million extra immigrants would be needed to fill this pensions black hole by the middle of the century.”
So I did a quick calculation: 37 years inclusive to 2050, multiplied by 24000 immigrants a year = 888,000 total.
Does Mr McClymont not realise that he just agreed to the numbers put forward?
I see Pa Broon is sticking his oar in again:
link to bbc.co.uk
He’s clearly critisising Alistair Darling’s sneeky ploy of getting everyone at Westminster to say we canae get the poond. And is Broon having a go at Ed Balls too, because he chimed in on that one as well.
@Quinie frae Angus –
Thanks for posting link to Prof Robertson’s letter.
I really hope SH editors don’t ignore it.
@MajorBloodnok
“But if the only propaganda that comes from the Conservatives is ‘Britain says No’, it’s bound to have a reaction in Scotland.
Even Gordon Brown says the currency stance from westminster is propaganda.
No is such an angry word.
Anyways, the P&J boy will be on his holidays hence the eye of the storm like break in proceedings.
@Heedtracker.
According to the paper version of the Evening Times,those backing, BNE include, BAE Systems, RBS and the BT group.
Sorry if this has already been posted but scrolling past a rabid dug on the loose I might of mist it.
link to derekbateman.co.uk
Labour is proud to say we will vote no, I say as a proud Scot, that I will vote no
The obsession with unionists over the fact that Scotland’s national identity is only in minority British suggests this is something that worries them a lot when it comes to polling day.
Good news folks, 5 million questions will be streamed live tonight,for those who couldn’t get a ticket for love nor money, Alex Salmond will be speaking live, it starts at 6pm.
Here’s the link to watch it, enjoy.
link to dundee.stv.tv
Telegraph twits says Gordon Brown “giving” Scotland and England his
“10-point programme for change if Scotland stays in the UK which included writing Holyrood’s permanence into the constitution, replacing the House of Lords with a “UK-style elected Senate” and swiftly devolving news powers.”
So Crash has either worked out that Scotland voting YES means he is never going to be a Lord and or he thinks we’ll believe his very dodgy patter like “UK-style” whatever that means. New Labour offered elected Lords back in 1997 but did nothing much to say the least.
Quinie
Good to see that you can post again ..
@ Andy-B, those backing, BNE include, BAE Systems, RBS and the BT group. BAE suck on UK.gov 6th and 4th largest military spend in the world, RBS speaks for itself and BT is a giant Thatcherite con.
Thank for link Quinie, good to see the Prof is keeping an eye on declared for yes SH…and will be interesting to see as you say, whether SH picks up on this and responds on Sunday.
Major Bloodnok 3.27
” I see Pa Broon is sticking his oar in again”
What? is he still free?. Surely the officers from the Hague with the court warrant for his arrest will get him.
Well the troll got a lot of feeding. You must ignore a troll.They only wish to pretend concern and they are just like you if only this or that was different. Anything to divide.-Anything to divert purpose.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL! Do not feed their ego my even naming them.
So now I am off to troll on a BT site now that I have been trained.
500 BBC News Division jobs to go:
link to forbes.com
Wonder how many at Pacific Quay?
Boothman and Quarrie to get golden handshakes and then knighted?
Now wonder we are getting baby reporters and MSP’s like Dugdale filling. Broadcasting on the cheap.
Quinie frae Angus – thanks for the link to Prof Robertson’s letter on the Sunday Herald’s dismissal of his research. Very interesting reading.
Peeps, the Rev’s just tweeted that the reason for the delay in posting his next article, over and above the Emergency Kitten upheaval is that ‘the interview with the FT overran by 2 hrs’! Interview with the FT – wonder how they’ll present it and will it all be in context? Ooh, exciting times indeed. 🙂
A bit of an online rant from that silly wee boy Ian Martin, who calls independence supporters, “Cybernats and online Nationalist Warriors”, Mr Martin then goes on to have a dig at the good folk who protested outside the BBC on Sunday.
Mr Martin a relatively mediocre journalist at best, then has a sly jab at independence supporters who, commented on radio Scotland’s new Crossfire show. Just as well no one takes the Telegraph newspaper seriously anymore.
link to blogs.telegraph.co.uk
Lochside
Seeing as the thread has been targetted again and we are subjected to this repetitious bullshit that reminds me of a certain OBE… There is no topic to go off.
Do you still live in the town? I’m a Maxwelltown boy who doesnae get hame very often. I just wanted to ask how the campaign is going in Dumfries? I grew up with Hector Munro (con) as life MP and I think it was one of only 2 regions that voted against tax raising powers in the devolution referendum.
I can imagine it is a bit of a No heartland. It certainly always felt remote from the central belt politics to me.
Anyway, Salut. And here’s to a great season to come for QOS!
Johann Lamont said, “Scottish Labour (Which doesn’t exist) is proud to say we will vote no, I say as a proud Scot, that I will vote no”.
So proud of Scotland that she plans on voting against self-determination and instead vote for London rule. Is that not a bit of a non sequitur? Debater of the Year? OFFS, only in Scotland. 🙁
@scottish_skier says:
‘Labour is proud to say we will vote no, I say as a proud Scot, that I will vote no’
Proud Scot Klaxon …. Boak !!!
‘Labour is proud to say we will vote no, I say as an imbecile, that I will vote no’
Makes more sense.
lol Murray
Ian Martin’s writing has gone down hill rapidly since his WSJ days, where he wrote stuff that looked like a real journalist. I think he must have been lobotomized when he left there as all the DT stuff seems to be pish.
Re. the dug. Perhaps we could crowdfund a lamp post website especially for him.
Quinie frae angus
Thanks for the link. Well done Professor Robertson! Get them telt! Will be interested to see the SH this week.
@cearc
With dodgy electrics.
Sorry, couldn’t resist and I know that there are lots of dog lovers on here. 🙂 But is it a dog? Things aren’t always what they appear. 😉
Meeka the Basenji doing her tricks!
link to youtube.com
@ caz-m
3 June,10.05am
I believe another protest is being organised for 29th June at 2pm
You can find info on further proposed demo at BBC on Facebook, link to facebook.com
or search for Exposing anti-independence bias on the BBC.
OT.
Does anybody know the eda for the 10.000 flags?
Well I’m not a proud Scot – I’m ashamed that in our wealthy country we have food banks, fuel poverty in our rural communities and child poverty 1 in 4.
Is SLAB is really truly proud of that while they agree to continue austerity, denounce folk on benefits as skivers, waste billions on WM vanity projects and continually run our nation down then they are beneath contempt.
And they can stick their cards as well.
@ Quinie frae Angus – magic stuff; well done
Gone yersel’ Prof Robertson (with the emphasis on yersel’)
Jesus Christ Scottish Press Journos – is there no’ one backbone amongst yez.
If there are Yes’s amongst you; its time to get out there NOW !!!
If not, then no ammount of counselling will resolve this observance of the selling out of Scotland, while you lot watch and pick up your wages.
Sleep Well; Labour will be along in a jiffy and normal service will be resumed.
So Iain Martin of the Telegraph thinks the protest outside the BBC was due to Gary Robertson getting the boot lol, what a piece of utter garbage reporting.
“In case study B there was a nationalist demonstration outside the BBC in Glasgow on Sunday because Yes campaigners object to the removal of Gary Robertson, one of the hosts of Good Morning Scotland on BBC Radio Scotland. They suspect a Unionist plot.”
@heedtracker
re Lord Gordon Brown of AtomicBeach. There was a cracking wee story in Private Eye recently about how The Queen alone invites members to join The Order of The Garter. Its usually given straight to ex-Prime Ministers, but Tony Blair will not commit and keeps postponing. Protocol dictates that the Queen leave the offer open..which duly means Gordon Brown cannot be offered the same honour and is apparently fuming at Blair once again messing him about.
Which is nice!
@cearc shoosh let sleepin Dug’s lie,enough for one day.
Lord Gordon Brown of AtomicBeach, liked that.
Given yet another relaunch of UWL, is there not something written somewhere about Atomic Cock crowing 3 times and denying Scotland? (well maybe a bit of a paraphrase there.) 🙂
Ronnie,
I shall go and meditate upon my blue rose from CH1.
link to tinypic.com
Apologies for wrong pic last time.
Stadium for the BBC versus Scotland game
Well done once again Rev however anyone paying any attention already knows the Bittertogether Broadcasting Company long ago trashed any reputation it ever had.
Anent Labour’s pride in voting against self-determination, just out of interest has anyone ever said ‘I’m a proud Brit, but I’ll be voting Yes to end the British state’?
It’s almost as absurd as Labour’s Scottish patriotism.
@Duggie
Ah yes, classic troll tactics. Start an argument on a forum and then look for posts that can be easily twisted and re-quoted out of context to make them look like personal attacks.
Seen it a hundred times, and it never gets any less boring…
Not an SNP voter myself, but in all the time I’ve been a regular on this site, I’ve yet to find any posts that made me feel like my choice of party was being insulted.
Must be just you that’s a bit over-sensitive then…
@cearc noo thats a new wan on me, meditating roses lol.
(Muscleguy 3:03, I doubt he has any friends in the Green Party xx)
@Liquid Lenny
I seem to be able to post from my works computer, but from my own laptop it’s a fairly patchy success rate. Could be because my own laptop is ancient, and unclean, and could be full of cookies, according to a certain delectably beautiful strappy-sandal-wearing lady with whom I was chatting on the Dundee bus home from the CH2 last Friday. 😉
However, I have no idea how to get rid of cookies or even what they are, so I guess I need to either get an IT gentleman friend in (!) who will willingly sort it out, in exchange for a hearty meal, or get a new computer!
But it’s annoying not being able to post. Can still read though. 🙂
Quinie frae Angus – re deleting cookies some pcs you can right click and you get a delete cookies option. I’m using a Windows 8 laptop and if you click on :
Tools
Options
Privacy
half way down there’s a box with ‘accept cookies’, if that’s ticked, untick it and close and refresh – works for me.
Yes Guy 1:13.
I too feel the same,some of the no voters I speak to all repeat the same shit,scared of a thousand and one things,(all bad),happening on sept 19.
I swear their mammy’s must still dress them in the morning.
If that’s not bad enough,I get home just in time for the”Scottish” news presented by John mcgoebels peddling the same pish night after night.
Who needs waterboarding when we’ve got ponsonby!
I have to come on sites like this to remind myself I’m not the only scot voting yes.
Quine frae Angus – re cookies, Windows 8 laptop:
on Menu bar
click on Tools
Options
Privacy
half way down page there’s a box ‘Accept cookies’, if this is ticked, untick it, OK, close and refresh – works for me anyway.
OK you will get peace now. That’s him away to bed.
Been out for while an just catching up – has he gone now?
Ah good, relax.
Next time there’s a troll in town can we all just have a collective ‘I agree with Duggie’ post and end it before it begins.
Now what was on topic again?
@ Betty Boop says:
@ caz-m
I believe another protest is being organised for 29th June at 2pm. You can find info on further proposed demo at BBC on Facebook, link to facebook.com
29th June is in my social(ist) diary.
Big Wings Over Scotland and Newsnet banners on the day would seem like a good idea.
Just sayin’
@Quinie
I guess if it’s an older laptop then you are probably running a Windows XP or Windows 7 operating system (you can check this by going Start button/Right Click on Computer, select Properties – shows you info on your computer).
If it is XP or 7
Click the Start button/Control Panel, click Internet Options. Look on General Tab/Browsing History/Delete
On the Delete Browsing History dialog probably best (safest unless you know what you’re deleting) to just select “Temporary Internet files and website files” and “Cookies and website data” un-tick all the rest.
Click on Delete it may take it some time to delete them all.
Just having too many cookies shouldn’t stop you being able to post, though, so there’s probably something else going on. Try the cookies for a starter.
Calgacus MacAndrews says:
“Big Wings Over Scotland and Newsnet banners on the day would seem like a good idea.”
Gerry Parker has two cracking Wings ones he’s had made for the Wings stall at Yes in the Park
If I remember correctly I think we met briefly on Friday (or could just be my information overload confusion), I didn’t realise you were Scottish Skier’s dad. Some boy there, sir. Without his and James Kelly’s poll analysis we’d be thinking it is worse than it is.
[…] all the other sex-pests of the Seventies than say anything nice about Scottish self-determination. They would rather lie than admit that just maybe the Union is less than perfect. Independence is not a panacea as there […]
“You and your Green party friends seem to think that the outcome of the last Holyrood election was less than clear…So what if they are currently reserved matters? They were formal SNP policies. They won a majority at Holyrood expounding them.”
The SNP were elected as a devolved government, their currency union, EU and Nato policies were not in their manifesto – the people of Scotland have NEVER voted on any of those policies and have NEVER given the SNP any mandate to enact them.
“So if you voted SNP you voted in the full knowledge that an SNP government of iScotland would seek NATO membership”
Er…….the SNP’s conference u-turn on Nato membership didn’t happen until 2012, which is AFTER the 2011 election.
So unless you can see into the future, you certainly didn’t vote for them in the last election with any knowledge that they would seek Nato membership!
“your misinformed and anti-democratic views”
Sadly its evident which of us is spouting misinformed anti-democratic views, and it isn’t me.
Fascinating meeting of our local Yes group tonight – made up of SNP, Green Party, Labour and SSP supporters – each in our own ways countering the misinformation coming from the UK state, and all praising Wings for the great work this site does.
“Fascinating meeting of our local Yes group tonight – made up of SNP, Green Party, Labour and SSP supporters”
Nice to see such a variety of different parties represented, and its good to see SNP supporters such as yourself engaging with supporters of other parties like the Greens.
Its just a shame that you’re unable to accept that other parties have alternative plans and policies and views on independence and that you attempt to prevent their supporters from discussing and promoting those plans, policies and views on this site.
Of course as a Green party supporter – I’m not to keen on that thick, sticky, smelly stuff that sometimes makes an appearance.
That’s a good boy Duggie. We all agree with you – now night,night.
“Of course as a Green party supporter”
I find it odd that you’re clinging to this ludicrous pretence that you support the Greens, it just makes you look very silly and dishonest.
Any possible claim of support you may have had for the Greens was utterly torn to shreds the night you spend several hours attacking and abusing and begging others to ignore, the poster on this site who was expressing support for the Green’s independence policies, plans and views and attempting to promote those views.
What kind of Green party supporter would attack and abuse and tries to stifle and censor someone who was promoting the policies and plans of the party they apparently supporter?!
According to the Green party ‘supporter’ Paula Rose, the Scottish Greens independence plans, policies and views are “silly” and anyone supporting or promoting them should be attacked, abused, castigated, stifled and censored.
With ‘supporters’ like her the Greens certainly don’t need enemies!
Oh by the way – sorry I’m hogging this thread but Thepnr and others are always at pains to point out to me that oil has many beneficial lubrication and fertilising applications.
Some dogs can crap, then whirl around to eat it before it hits the deck!
Strange, but true…I’ll spare you the video evidence!
@Duggies Mum –
I’m sorry to have to tell you that he got back up again –
he must’ve been kidding-on, waiting for you to go to bed. The pattern is sadly familiar.
Have you tried Saint John’s Wort? Takes a few weeks to kick in, but he should settle a bit, so long as he’s still getting regular lengthy walks and is strenuously chastised whenever he attempts to mark territory indoors.
Unfortunately, his behaviour sounds well-established and irredeemably narcissistic – castration may be unavoidable.
Oh hello Ian dear – I thought I was on my own here, misinformation comes in many forms.
@ Duggie
Is that you, tellen 1?
@Paula Rose –
I have been following the exchanges, and enjoying them hugely.
Would’ve raised me auld napper earlier, but didn’t much fancy being, what was it again? ‘attacked, abused, castigated, stifled and censored’.
Gordon Bennett, it’s a dog’s life right enough, eh?
I wonder if the IFS took account of the £70bn or so in start-up assets Scotland can expect. Are these not currently performing necessary tasks or adding to income? Has the OBR already banked future receipts (think Enron), or are they talking crystal bollocks?
link to theguardian.com
(sorry, can’t be arsed archiving and it is going to make sod all difference to the Grudy’s output).
Careful now, a wee bit naughty. 😉
Citizen Truth
link to youtube.com
Recently on this page, someone asked how can any real journalist stand by and listen to and read the mendacious rubbish being churned out by the Media?
I’m a 74 year old Hack, retired – but still interested – and frankly I’m sickened and ashamed by what’s going on; outright lies, outrageous bias, and worst of all – the pretence that valid and important events and news stories simply not happened:
“What they don’t hear about……….hasn’t happened, and they won’t worry about it”!
Welcome to the ministry of Truth.
@Ian Brotherhood
“Have you tried Saint John’s Wort? Takes a few weeks to kick in, but he should settle a bit”
Or try LSD. He might start making more sense then! 😉
@Fiona
T & D do have very similar turns of phrase, some might even say identical. Both of them appear to have exactly the same views regarding currency union and NATO/ EU membership. That might just be co-incidental, but then again…
Hi Tam Jardine,
Yes, as you’ve guessed I am a Doonhamer and a Maxwelltown boy like yourself. Only just read your salutation, due to having to wade through a load of dog turds left by our old ‘Chum’ or is it ‘Pal’?
Anyway, he’ll not ‘Winnalot’ with his constant whining.
But to answer your question…no, I no longer live in the ‘Queen of the South’ but still follow the team ‘by the railway line’.
Unfortunately, our home town is full of ‘No-ers’. Mainly I believe because of blanket tv from ‘Border’ and N.E. BBC.
The folk are still resolutely Scottish but many are old fashioned tories and labour.
They feel isolated from Central belt polices. I was ‘Doonhame’ just before the ‘Euro’ at a pal’s birthday and had to listen to a group of would be ukipers talking about immigrants. I soon put them right on this, but left feeling that I had made little headway.
Again, if the BBC played fair in its coverage, there would be a good chance of both DFS and Galloway, and possibly the Borders moving to YES.
That’s why despite one or two on here being dismissive..we need demos outside the BBC and marches to reinforce the waverers in getting involved and interested in the real facts and issues.
Make no mistake, if we don’t keep attacking(peacefully!) the BBC we will lose. How about a mass demo and burning of tv licences? I’m up for it.
@ lochside – I’m all for throwing shoes at Pacific Quay dear, but no way are my Yes high heels joining the fray. I might have a pair of pumps I could fling…
Yeah! Now we are talking, I could really dig a laser armed Unicorn to visit the Library! Who wouldn’t want a Unicorn with lasers for arms!
or did i miss the point like the tories and labour?