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Wings Over Scotland

How times don’t change

Posted on June 02, 2014 by

As we forced ourselves unwillingly through the full text of the Strathclyde Commission report in the name of professionalism this afternoon, it struck us that perhaps in our partisan haste we’d been just a tiny bit harsh on it.


After all, while the extension of tax powers is at best an empty charade and at worst an expensive millstone around the neck of the Scottish Government’s budget, and the proposals for devolving elements of welfare vague and highly unlikely to ever be implemented, there are a couple of recommendations that would, while minor in the context of Holyrood’s overall finances, at least be welcome.

Something nagged at the back of our mind, though.

Lord Strathclyde is unambiguous about Air Passenger Duty, a tax the Scottish Government has long wanted control of. “We consider that Air Passenger Duty should be devolved”, says the report on page 15. And on VAT, while a lot less forthright, he does put forward a case:

“Were it not illegal under EU law, we would have been inclined to recommend that VAT be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Well, that’s a shame.

“However we recommend that, as an alternative, there should be serious examination of the case for a share of VAT receipts raised in Scotland being assigned to the Scottish Parliament. This would mean that Scottish Ministers would get the benefit of any increase in economic activity in Scotland and would thereby reap a fiscal reward were their economic policies to prove effective.”

Now, “serious examination of the case” is a hefty dose of weasel words – wasn’t “examining the case” exactly what your commission was supposed to be doing for the last 15 months, your lordship? You looked into it for a year and a quarter and arrived at the conclusion that someone should look into it? Well, take a lollipop for trying.

But nevertheless, a share of Scottish VAT receipts coming to Holyrood would be an unequivocally welcome step – depending, of course, on whether it was balanced by a reduction in the Barnett Formula, two words which don’t appear anywhere in the report.

(Nor does the near-synonymous phrase “block grant”. Readers more cynical than us might be tempted to arrive at the conclusion that talking about devolving taxation to Scotland without spelling out exactly what the ramifications for Barnett would be was a staggeringly disingenuous omission.)

So, Air Passenger Duty and VAT? Something tangible, at any rate, and certainly more than Scottish Labour were prepared to offer. But wait. What’s this lurking in a dark and dusty corner of the Wings library?


Correct us if we’re wrong, readers, but that looks an awful like a couple of paragraphs from the final report of the Calman Commission, published not so long ago (June 2009) after the Unionist parties’ supposedly definitive joint deliberation on devolution.

The Calman Commission recommended that Air Passenger Duty SHOULD be devolved, just like the Strathclyde Commission has. It may be worth bearing that in mind when contemplating the likelihood of it actually happening this time.

The Calman Commission also concluded that a share of VAT should NOT be assigned and general taxation SHOULDN’T be devolved, because it could introduce “serious economic inefficiences” – presumably the hundreds of millions of pounds this site has repeatedly pointed out would be wasted on pointless duplication of HMRC resources.

We feel, therefore, that we may be able to hazard a guess at the outcome of the “serious examination of the case” for VAT-assignment suggested by Lord Strathclyde.

(In fairness, Calman rejected it because Holyrood wouldn’t be able to adjust tax to compensate in bad years, but while that problem is solved in theory by the proposed devolution of income tax, we’ve already established why it can’t be done in reality.)

Or if you need a tl;dr version of all the above: “Yeah, yeah, heard it before, pal.”

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    177 to “How times don’t change”

    1. handclapping says:

      What’s a tl;dr

    2. handclapping says:

      I must say the whole report suggests “What! You actually want us to report?” said about 4 weeks ago. When did Labour’s devo-nano come out?

    3. Brotyboy says:

      tl;dr link not working.

    4. Oneironaut says:

      tl;dr = “Too long; Didn’t read!”
      Basically saying: “Quit yakkin’ on and give us the short version!” in fewer words than that.

    5. Geoff Huijer says:

      Should’ve just gone stratight to the ‘too long; didn’y read’ bit coz as you say it’s just regurgitated pish.

    6. Grouse Beater says:

      Fur clad Strathclyde has all the appearance of a cuckoo in the nest – his very presence ensuring all is rejected.

    7. handclapping says:

      Thanks, the link not working didn’t help 🙁

    8. fergie35 says:

      His Lordship looks well fed.
      See Tom Allison, director at Celtic Football Coy., has his name to the commission, never knew Celtic was such a loyalist organisation?

    9. Giving Goose says:

      Bollocks to all this empty talk! Give us all the Oil revenue, the Crown Estate, the Excise revenue on Whisky, revenue generated form future renewables such as wind and tide, along with all the VAT. In fact all revenue from Scotland.
      Stop the bullshit Unionists. We don’t care a stuff about your Peerages, your London careers, your London ambitions (Kezia?), whether you get to keep current peerages (Foulkes and Wallace!).
      Give us Scotland back and stop being a bunch of backstabbing windbags.

    10. gordoz says:

      Well, Well (As predicted before anounced)

      Cleverly done STV – Good news for YES (followed by 20 points behind …. with B McD gloating), does anybody believe that crap ??

      Its a fine old machine the state braodcasting system,
      STV with more complete crap of a poll 60 / 40 spilt,

      They are up to there necks in this poll fixing scandal as much as BBC BT. Ipsos Mori (absolute bollocks / knighthoods awaiting all involved).

    11. jon esquierdo says:

      Did he no hiv a sex scandal tagged to him?

    12. fergie35 says:

      I wonder if the No campaign has adopted the Labour system of fixing the election? If they tweek the polls, they will tweek the final result. Memories of Glenrothes

    13. a2 says:

      tl:dr is exactly what they want.

    14. jon esquierdo says:

      He did hiv a sex scandal with a blond

    15. Bill Cruickshank says:

      Sorry to go o/t so early Stu.Re the STV poll James Kelly reveals why it is a lot better than it seems here:

    16. Walter Scott says:

      Never mind all that…… Gordon Brown has just entered the referendum debate for the fifth time. Like the fading film star Norma Desmond says in “Sunset Boulevard” Tell Mr DeMille I’m ready for my close-up

    17. Seasick Dave says:

      The good Lord looks like a half loaf on top of a wardrobe in that picture.

    18. rab_the_doubter says:

      Dear Jesuschristalf***ingmighty. That living on the border report on BBC was a total disgrace. What are the chances of all of those £ signs facing the camera by accident.

    19. wee_monsieur says:

      So we don’t already get our share of VAT? Why the F*** not? We’ve spent our money on it…

    20. msean says:

      60/40 no v yes? Do they keep asking the same people or something? I have never been asked,neither has anyone I know to my knowledge.

    21. ronnie anderson says:

      BBC news, slight change of tack, cross border trade NI/Sth I

      cost of food from Morrisons on both sides of the border SthI

      £3 dearer.noo where did that appear before in relation to Scotland/England.

      Oh aye it costs more to buy food from English supermarket chains, in Scotland.Why do they persist in pushin Pish up hill.

    22. Les Wilson says:

      Hi Lordship truly is a fat cat, in every sense of the word!

    23. DocFin says:

      Ah, the real something for nothing culture – vote No for something and we’ll give you nothing.

    24. Adrian B says:

      @jon esquierdo
      Did he hiv a sex scandal with a blond

      Rev tweeted about it:

    25. Schrodingers Cat says:

      is gary robertson pro yes?
      if so, could we crowd fund him for 4 months to give the rev a break and a help and also to imbed radio into wings?

    26. heedtracker says:

      “unequivocally welcome step – depending, of course, on whether it was balanced by a reduction in the Barnett Formula, two words which don’t appear anywhere in the report.”

      If Cons like Strathclyde refuse to even mention how much Barnett is going to be cut, the whole exercise is a pointless farce. Again, apologise for pointing out the bettertogether obvious.

    27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Did he no hiv a sex scandal tagged to him?”

      It’s always worth checking the picture links…

    28. heedtracker says:

      Why the feck has the Mirror got 2 of the same photos of that young filly Lord Bloated of Stacks o Cash on the Clyde was dry humping for the union? Imagine that bloater on top? EW.

      “Pouring himself another glass and relaxing on her couch, Lord Strathclyde, 50, removed his tie as he listened to Birgit talk about changes she wants to the CSA to help single parents like her.

      But ­Strathclyde, was clearly more interested in his mistress than her problems, swiftly charming former socialite Birgit by ­asking if she’d lost weight.”

      Sure he did. She probably felt the same way YES vote Scotland does right now, very disappointed, my Lord.

    29. msean says:

      When something is ‘missed out’ or ‘not mentioned’ in any document from the unionist parties,it is usually missing deliberately, and they don’t want any publicity about it because soon, it will no longer exist.

      If they get their no vote that is. 🙂

    30. jon esquierdo says:

      Why on earth would anybody choose Lord Strathclyde a confessed adulterer to commission a report? In my opinion the man is not fit for this purpose or is this the norm in the modern day society? Sorry Rev for not checking the picture link

    31. Grouse Beater says:

      Another over-privileged scuzzy sleazebag dictates to Scotland how it will conduct its financial affairs. Perhaps he feels he is well qualified.

    32. joe kane says:

      I’m looking forward to Lord Strathclyde explaining how the “new” Universal Credit works, given that it is a £12.5 billion write-off disaster zone and has even had to have its own specialised language invented to describe what an utter policy meltdown armageddon it is.

      I’m looking forward even more to Scottish Labour explaining how the Universal Credit flagship policy, which they share with the Tories, is going to be made to work. Obviously the fact that the right-wing religious wing-nut IDS is its author and in charge of the project didn’t seem to give them a moment’s hesitation in making this British upper-class twit’s delusions about how British society work their own.

      Reference –
      The Staggering Cost Of One Man’s Delusions: £25 Billion Squandered On Bungled Welfare Reforms

    33. Schrodingers Cat says:

      i cannot get excited about anything this balloon says, or action cranky either

      its bollox folks

      they have no intention of doing anthing except dismantling holyrood if we vote no

      they are willing to dismantle bbc scotland in the process

      could anyone confirm that gary robertson was pro yes, as is being claimed (buried in other news) in the guardian?
      if so, he fooled me……isnt that wat bbc journalists are supposed to do.
      perhaps the next protest against the bbc biased should be on the same day that the journos strike? might carry more weight. id love to hear their thoughts?

    34. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

      No mention of Scottish oil revenues in this Tory more devo scam.

      Don’t mention the oil. I think I got away with it, but…

      Those parasites have been getting away with for forty years.

    35. JLT says:

      I think the big relocation of The Scotsman has begun. Scaffolding up at the very front door, as they try (to what I assume) is move the very large brass sign,’The Scotsman’ from the front façade (seriously …how funny would it be if it fell and cracked off the pavement and broke in two!)

      I took a couple of pictures of it on my phone. Rev …if I catch them actually lowering the sign, then seriously, I’ll photograph it, and send it to you! I’m sure it would make your day knowing that you broke the b******!

    36. joe kane says:

      Our welfare, safe in their hands.

      For those who love their grassroots journalists, here’s the excellent Sonia Poulton ambushing IDS and Esther McVey over the deaths of nearly 11,000 disabled people at the hands of DWP and Atos medical staff –
      Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey running from the truth

    37. goldenayr says:

      Been on the beeb site,about this story,most of the day.Had a post removed.

      They cited this as the reason..

      “Dear BBC Visitor,

      Thank you for contributing to the BBC web site. Unfortunately we’ve had to remove the content below because it contravened one of our House Rules.

      This post has been removed because special House Rules are in effect during election periods”

      This is what I posted..


      Scottish independence: Tories back Scots income tax power


      If the labtorydums think they’re going to get a sniff of forming a Govt in Scotland after the YES vote.They better stop pandering to London and their financiers in The Tea Party.

      No more right wing,self serving,trough eaters.

      Vote YES”

      Can someone explain what EC rules have been contravened?

    38. Grouse Beater says:

      JLT says: think the big relocation of The Scotsman has begun.

      Their hut at the Botanic’s allotments has been fitted up with a beer on tap bar, ready for the hack’s arrival.

    39. bookie from hell says:

      A House Of. Lords sleaze bag telling Scots what they can,cannot do

      we’re doomed if we vote no

    40. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Can someone explain what EC rules have been contravened?

      those of the forces ranged against us, they make the rules

      we needed to invent our own media remember

    41. haud on the noo says:

      Channel 4 news anyone? Dreary, deary me. Cringe to the Max.

    42. heedtracker says:

      Jacob Rees Mogg goes mad in Dundee, C4 news right now, Eton, Oxford, Conservative MP now back in London studio boosting today’s Tory devo scam and totally not questioned by Jon Snow.

    43. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Schrodingers Cat says:
      perhaps the next protest against the bbc biased should be on the same day that the journos strike? might carry more weight.

      It occurred to me that, given that we will not have a march this year (for very good reasons), maybe something almost as good (or better, at this stage of the game) would be a serious day of mass protest outside the BBC at Pacific Quay.

    44. Schrodingers Cat says:

      if gary robertson is a yes supporter, it might make sense of derek batemans claims…? I dont get bbc radio at all, only radio tay and wings, so cant really coment

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      A wee bit O/T, OK a fair bit, but perhaps we just don’t understand the House of Lords. An interesting insight into the Bedroom Tax.

      “On the Welfare Reform Bill, the Commons authorities found that privilege was engaged in 46 of the 110 Lords amendments. The Government asked the Commons to agree to 35 of those 46 amendments and to reject the remaining 11. In agreeing to those 35 Lords amendments, each a concession to this House, the Commons waived its financial privilege for more than £300 million of public expenditure. Therefore, we are really talking only about the remaining 11 Lords amendments, which, on policy grounds, the Government could not accept and which they asked the House of Commons to reject. When the Commons voted to reject each of those amendments, the only reason it could cite was privilege.” – Lord Strathclyde

    46. chalks says:

      Link to guardian article about gary robertson?

    47. goldenayr says:

      Schrodingers Cat(50/50)

      I assumed it was because I’d mentioned what everyone knows.They’re financed by the American extreme right.

      They just can’t get over the US fighting against Hitler,mind you..most of the establishment here can’t either.

    48. Croompenstein says:

      A picture speaks a thousand words, how any right minded person can look at that and still believe in democracy is beyond me

      PS is Blair McDougall his lovechild?

    49. goldenayr says:


      We can still have a march.As long as it’s not organised by anyone who has declared themselves to the EC.

      Flashmob anyone?

    50. Schrodingers Cat says:

      @Calgacus MacAndrews
      I watched a derek bateman video the other day and it strikes me that these journalists who are about to go on strike could do with a hand
      I have spent the last 12 months slating (mercilessly) bbc journalist without really knowing their true situation is,

      perhaps a demo in support of them is not without value, or publicity impact…….i dont know, im not really sure whats happening here
      unionist trolls on the guardian slating gary robertson, mad jock mc mad doing same (and I pay attention to what MJMM says) I am missing something here
      bateman stated that he was a nationalist, always had been, and i believe him. is it possible that so are all of the journalists presently being replaced in PQ?
      confused cat this evening. sorry for going off topic rev

    51. archieologist says:

      So the unelected Tory Peer may give Scotland powers to raise income tax. The devolved Scottish Parliament were given powers to vary income tax but have never used it. It’s a poison chalice, who is going to vote to raise income tax in a devolved parliament, nobody.

      Note his lordship intends that Scotland is to get no revenues from Scotland’s oil which will continue to flow into Westminster coffers. What a disgraceful state of affairs even Orkney and Shetland Islands Councils benefit from oil revenues.

      What about giving Scotland Corporation tax much of which is generated by the oil and gas industry in Aberdeen, you must be joking he scoffs as he shuffles off to enjoy a good dinner at his London club.

    52. heedtracker says:

      So on the day Ruth Davidson tries to get away with income tax devo con, Channel 4 news sends Rees Mogg to Scotland to say how much England needs and loves Scotland over and over, apparently Scots gave more to humanity than any other world er non country, even the ancient Greeks and Rees Mogg says devo as it is great but thats enough now and there is no actual devo detail whatsoever.

      Not bad C4, very slick, very cunning.

    53. Les Wilson says:

      Some people slag of the SNP for some thing or other but ain’t we lucky they are there with our interests at their heart. Rather than ANY of the UK parties. Just saying!

    54. chalks says:

      nah article is saying john robertson is pro indy, which I think is wrong?

    55. heedtracker says:

      @ Schrodingers Cat, gary robertson was BBC unionist bias hard core and with gusto. He’s got the boot because the BBC now need freshish attack from what looks initially like the big guns. Robertson got the job down and spent his broadcasting just like the rest of them in Pacific Quay, annihilating Scottish democracy.

      Now its time to deliver the BBC in Scotland coupe de grace to Scotland as a nation state, they hope. Good riddens Gary

    56. Schrodingers Cat says:

      lol, he might be now chalks…….

    57. cynicalHighlander says:

      Re BBC demo I saw that the Tommy is going to one later this month that will draw the crowds. no link.

    58. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Schrodingers Cat says:
      @Calgacus MacAndrews
      I have spent the last 12 months slating (mercilessly) bbc journalist without really knowing their true situation is,

      perhaps a demo in support of them is not without value, or publicity impact……

      The proportion of staff at BBC Scotland that are for YES will be roughly the same as in the general population i.e. around 60%. 🙂

      But they will all have to keep their heads down, given that The Management are effectively The NO Campaign.

      It would seem like a good idea to co-ordinate a really big protest outside PQ with a day of industrial action by the NUJ at BBC Scotland.

    59. caz-m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Ronnie are you up for another visit to BBC Scotland, Pacific Quay.

      We could call the protest,

      PQ2, “DUGDALE OUT”.

    60. steveasaneilean says:

      @Schrondinger’s Cat – I think the Guardian was saying that Prof Robertson the academic (rather than Gary Robertson the presenter) was pro-indy

    61. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      PQ is not a happy place.

    62. Macandroid says:

      Has anyone seen Jackie Baillie recently?
      I only ask because it looks as if m’lord may have eaten her.

    63. Schrodingers Cat says:

      tx HT

      thats good enough for me
      conspiracy thoery shot down in flames

      sorry for disrupting the thread
      as i said, i dont even get bbc radio where i live
      (arse end of uncollapsed 11th dimensional probability wave)
      too many hills in the way

      “Now, “serious examination of the case” is a hefty dose of weasel words – wasn’t “examining the case” exactly what your commission was supposed to be doing for the last 15 months, your lordship?”
      devastating critique Rev. that sentence in itself completely damns his lardships report. I posting it verbatim into the guradian so that the creeps there could see what real journalism looks like

      you dont over take the sun distribution figures by accident Rev. Dont burn yourself out either, we are going to need you. bring in some more 3rd party journalists, id like to hear batemans take on what is happening in the BBC
      thanks for the heads up heed

    64. Schrodingers Cat says:

      It would seem like a good idea to co-ordinate a really big protest outside PQ with a day of industrial action by the NUJ at BBC Scotland.

      might be worth combining………..but im not sure about supporting bbc scotland……any thoughts?

    65. Schrodingers Cat says:


      is Blair McDougall his lovechild?

      ha ha ha ha ha ha

    66. caz-m says:

      Now is the time to turn the tables on BBC Scotland PQ.

      We must increase the pressure ten fold in that place, more complaints, more demos.

      Get a “NAME” to front the protest at PQ.

      Show them that they are not going to get it all their own way.

      BBC Scotland want this Referendum run on their terms. It’s time to tell them were to get off.

      We, the YES Campaign, will run it on our terms.

    67. Schrodingers Cat says:

      I just went back onto the guardian to post your comment croomp underneath lard strathclyde……….all photos of him have been replaced by action kranky

      we are up against it folks
      scary sh1t

    68. Doug Mcgregor says:

      There are rather a lot of ermined weasels sticking their snouts in for my liking. Why would we listen to these fat has-beens?

    69. Onwards says:

      That STV poll shows independence support split evenly among men, but a big 61-28 gap for women.

      It just beats me how feisty Scottish women are so feart of change.

      Especially when a campaign that calls itself ‘PROJECT FEAR’ deliberately targets them.

      Maybe that’s not common knowledge.

      You would think more ladies would have the attitude, “No, you’re not going to scare me..”

    70. Schrodingers Cat says:

      is that the way to go cat-m
      genuine question?
      i have several 1000 leaflets to deliver and many doors to knock on

      how is my time best spent?

      the guardian only put up an article cos we complained, did it appear in any other scottish media?

      manifestations only work when celebs turn up or many 1000’s, even if we got 200000, the media would report 2000 tree huggers

      genuine question, this is why YES didnt organise a rally this year, this isnt a social fuction, it is the very future of scotland that is at stake. we need to consider what is best for us all.

    71. ronnie anderson says:

      @ caz_m YES YES YES with knobs on ah hiv some mair letters to deliver, an this postman likes calling twice thrice times.

    72. Croompenstein says:

      @Schrodingers Cat

      uncanny resemblance.. 😀

    73. Stuart Black says:

      I find it quite disturbing that people can dress like that and still expect to be taken seriously. 😉

    74. chalks says:

      Let’s hope to god that the NUJ go on strike.

      What a statement it would make.

    75. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Now is the time to turn the tables on BBC Scotland PQ.

      now is the time to organise and do what is required to win
      i will continue to “nurse my wrath” until the time is right
      the 19th of sept

      me, im going to organise the delivery of leaflets and news papers. this is not what we should be doing ourselves

      we have spent the last year reading these blogs given to us by the rev. I now have the answers, and the quips, and the punch lines, and also the detailed know how to chap on folks doors and I am ready to answer questions
      I have also been a door to door salesman. knocking on folks doors is very hard work. canvasing is not for everyone.
      but the glib posters on here have all it takes. the recent discussion in my YES group was the lack of canvasing, not leafleting, there are plenty who can do that.
      Canvasing is what wingers should be doing………….they are the best qualified to do this. This is what the Rev has been training us for.
      lets do it

    76. call me dave says:

      That poll and the bit on the changes, on which type of voter is being swayed one way or the other.

      The less well off/ poorer are more likely to vote NO which is completely the opposite of what the YES polling date in the estates are saying.

      The better off are(since the start of the year) are now more likely to vote YES which again goes against what we were being told by polling done by independence supporters.

      What a coincidence, project fear,it seems, is working in the estates according to to the poll.

      Any thoughts about this? Anyhoo! the overall trend seems to be going in the right direction.

    77. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      God Mori poll though I feel a bit sorry for Prof. John Curtice who is constantly having to look for excuses now after his incompetent ramping of the No vote and Better Together.

      He hasn’t learned a thing since he was predicting certain doom for the SNP in 2011.

    78. caz-m says:


      Tommy Sheridan might be fronting a demo at Pacific Quay.
      I will be up for that one, will listen out for dates etc..

    79. scottish_skier says:

      MORI is a disaster for No.

      Parity now for men in the most No friendly BPC pollster (due to methodolgy), which means ahead for Yes here as is regular in online, more anonymous polls.

      Ladies should follow in turn as they did in 2011. They’re just more polite.

      After all, if we managed to glean anything from that recent ICM mess of a poll, it’s that women are at least twice as likely to feel uncomfortable telling people what they plan to vote on what is a very sensitive issue. 20% of them at minimum feel so and that’s just those who admit it.

      A reminder.

      It wasn’t the Sun what won it and gave us our referendum, it was Scotland’s better half. 😉

    80. Griminish says:

      Off Topic
      I am wondering if anyone here may be able to help. It is quite possible that I may be on holiday on the 18 Sept. If I apply for a postal vote would I receive the documentation by the 5th September (the start of my holiday)?


    81. Greannach says:

      Scary similarity between Lord Strathclyde’s picture and that of Blair McDougall in the Straight to the Bottom article the other day. They could be the ‘before’ pictures in an advert for some miracle health product. Or maybe the ‘after’ pictures on 19 September.

    82. Adrian B says:


      Applications for postal and ordinary proxy votes open until 5pm Wednesday 3rd September.
      Therefor I doubt that you would have received your postal vote by the 5th September.

    83. IcySpark says:

      Hi everyone, first post.


      Great new video from the BBC Bias protest on Sunday.

    84. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T – I have posted this over on the “New Readers” thread too.

      Anybody who wants to find a local YES public meeting or event can now check this out on this excellent website:-

      Go on, go on, go on, go on.

      It’s time now for Cybernats to leave their ‘flickering screens’, come out from behind the mountains of Irn Bru cans and crisp packets, and leave their bedrooms (occasionally).


    85. Nana Smith says:


      Don’t know if this has been posted already.

    86. Cindie says:

      I have some real reservations about this poll. I was called by IPSOS MORI the other day, they were very polite, asked if I had time to answer questions about ‘events in Scotland’ and then they asked if I were between the ages of 18-34, when I said no they asked if there was anyone else in the house who was in that age bracket and when I told them that there was not they thanked me for my time and hung up.

      I believe that it is fairly well known that women in the 18-34 bracket are/have been the hardest to reach? So it does not surprise me that there is such a large number of women voting ‘no’ in this poll. I’m not suggesting that IPSOS MORI are doing anything to skew data, and it maybe that there is a break down of age groups in this poll (I haven’t seen the data) but it does strike me as very strange

    87. alexicon says:


      Applications for postal and ordinary proxy votes open until 5pm Wednesday 3rd September.
      Therefor I doubt that you would have received your postal vote by the 5th September.

      Phone your local electoral registration office and ask. I’m sure you’ll get a postal vote form early enough.

    88. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The fact that this is a telephone poll means we can with confidence push up the probable yes vote as landline telephone polls hugely favour the NO vote.

    89. Free at 63! says:

      @ Griminish,

      My son had a postal vote for the Euro election and showed me his ballot paper on 3rd May (his son’s 1st birthday)so if you apply early enough you should have the ballot paper before you go on holiday.

    90. Marcia says:


      If you think the postal vote might come when you are away, I would appoint a proxy to vote for you instead. Much easier.

    91. caz-m says:

      Target for the week and every week, ladies and gentlemen, has got to be to get “Scotland 2014” BELOW 20,000 viewers.

      Good Luck!

    92. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith

      Good post.
      Had a wee look at the protest video at PQ yesterday. Got a glimpse on Ronnie Anderson and myself solving all the problems of the world.

    93. Nana Smith says:


      which one are you?

      I wish I could have been there but I live way up north so not possible.

    94. msean says:

      I think Ruth wants independence,what with giving us tax raising powers but not how the freedom too spend it. The Tories must know that ‘why don’t you just vote yes’ must be the next question.

    95. msean says:

      *sorry about the bad grammar lol.

    96. BuckieBraes says:

      Oh dear, just peeking at Scotland 2014

      What an awful programme! Let’s lead Lenny Henry into making a gratuitous plea for the union. Now I feel ill looking at Sarah against that background – ‘red and green should not be seen’, after all. Where’s the ‘off’ button..?

    97. Simon Chadwick says:

      Why are we calling him Lord Strathclyde? Does he not have a real name?

    98. Defo says:

      APT ! Thank you m’lud, would you like a go at the wife sir ?

      No doubt it’s been scrutinised here, in the annals of WOS, but when we run our own show, abolishing/ APT wouldn’t half make a hub here viable (prestwick anyone ?). Won’t harm the tourist numbers either.
      Shame it’s only a mibbes type offer.

      Easyjet for Yes.

    99. Macandroid says:

      The yes local website is not so good on a mobile unfortunately.
      Otherwise a great resource.

    100. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith

      I have a white vest on. Ronnie is the intelligent looking one next to me in the blue jacket. Only see glimpses of us.

    101. Defo says:

      Schrodingers Cat. Is that a Calabi-Yau space your in, and is there a dimension of adequate proportion for Lard Strathclyde beyond the 11th ? Lose him, in time !

    102. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith,

      There were longer videos of the PQ protest on BBC Scotlandshire yesterday, but I cant find them today.

    103. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith,

      You should try your hardest to get yourself down to the next demo at PQ.

    104. Nana Smith says:


      I saw you and Ronnie,nice to be able to put names to faces.
      I certainly would try and get down provided its not at short notice.

    105. Griminish says:

      Thanks to all who replied re postal vote. I think Marcia’s idea of a proxy vote is the avenue I’ll take.

    106. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith

      More pics and a video of PQ demo here.

    107. domhnall ruadh says:

      Don’t care if Strathclyde had a “sex scandal”. But I can never see or hear of the man without thinking of him as Lord Trafigura, whose board he lucratively sat on. Business like Tony Soprano’s – waste disposal. Toxic, but nevertheless shipped and dumped on the folks that live in the Ivory Coast.
      So I would be wary of anything this man says he is ready to throw away….

    108. Grouse Beater says:

      The South City Mob grousebeater.wordpress

    109. TYRAN says:

      I swear, turned on BBC whatever the heck its name is, to see what all the fuss is about with that show – and was greeted by Lenny Henry saying please stay Scotland, tuned out, all in several seconds.

    110. bookie from hell says:

      Iain Gray’s Subway Lament says:
      2 June, 2014 at 9:19 pm
      God Mori poll though I feel a bit sorry for Prof. John Curtice who is constantly having to look for excuses now after his incompetent ramping of the No vote and Better Together.

      He hasn’t learned a thing since he was predicting certain doom for the SNP in 2011.

      wow–never realised he got poll so wrong

    111. bookie from hell says:

      I went to a Lenny Henry show,it was so bad I told jokes to myself

    112. Nana Smith says:

      Thanks Caz-m….great turnout.

    113. Flower of Scotland says:


      I phoned the local electoral registration office about the postal votes and they said that they were sending them out at the end of August . To make sure you’ll find the no for your local office in your local council,s web site.

    114. Tam Jardine says:

      “Lord Strathclyde”- the pomp and ceremony, deference and privilege the Lords are treated to makes me sick. Juxtapose with those around us who can’t afford to heat their homes or buy enough food to live. Get rid. What struck me the last time I subjected myself to Scottish Questions in the Commons was how similar it has become to the Lords – how the two have converged.

      If we had a vote on whether or not to abolish the Lords how high would it go? 75%? 80? Higher maybe?

      The narrative on Scotland 2014 was predictably “wow, look at all these new ‘powers’ the tories are ‘promising’ – the question is, are they enough?

      It is shameful that the proposals by the 3 unionists have been taken at face value, unquestioned without any rigorous investigative journalism by the BBC. What bleedin use is any of it.

      The back of fag packet lib dems proposals were weak as piss. Devon nano was gibberish and the conservative proposals, well Stu tears it all apart.

      It all smacks of desperation. So many of these ideas actually make less sense to me than centralised tax within the UK!

    115. caz-m says:


      Remember, our target of below 20,000 viewers for “Scotland 2014” is very do-able. So, please ignore the Baronesses Daughter, (Sarah Smith).

      PS It’s crap, you are not missing anything.

      Send her back to London.

    116. Derek M says:

      sry for going O/T a bit rev but this made my blood boil,once again MSM show total bias towards the westminster parties couldnt believe my eyes but that excuse for a politician wee ruthie getting loads of airtime without one single person to contradict her position ,STV disgraceful,the best of it was though in her endless drivel she mixed up brown with osborne ,doesnt she know who is in her own party?
      And how does a politician who if i remember rightly said there would be no more powers to the Scottish government get away with such a u-turn in policy without being pulled up for it by the media damn disgraceful.
      Keep your jam ruthie we are taking back all the cake vote yes Scotland!

    117. Adrian B says:

      Excellent new weekly video. Watch, enjoy and pass it on:

    118. TJenny says:

      Tam – agree with all you’ve said there especially about the lack of questioning of unionists by our dreary interviewers.

      It’s not much better on STV where not only did wee Rthie make a Freudian slip, but so too did Rhona Dougall according to this tweet (I didn’t watch it but the Rev did).

      From twitter: ‘Two slip ups tonight on #Scotnight Ruthie talking to Gordon Brown (instead of saying George Osborne)and Rhona saying when we vote No.’

      Says it all.

    119. Kirsty says:

      Not much point in me commenting – it’s all been said far more eloquently than I could say it already. All I’ll add is if anyone is dumbass enough to believe we’ll get extra powers after a no vote then I have a paper bag that will stop bullets, tornados and shark bites that I’ll sell for the right price.

    120. Marcia says:

      Adrian B

      Thanks for posting that, I have passed it on.

    121. TJenny says:

      Kirsty – all comments are welcome and yours was eloquent enough. 🙂

      ps – I have a heap of magic beans that I intend to sell to WM to use in making their Tomorrow jam.

    122. Tam Jardine says:


      Aye – just watched Ruth’s second easy ride of the night. Gordon Brown indeed – he’s too busy attempting to make the referendum all about him by firing both torpedos into the good ship BT.

      Thing about Gordon, despite being a lazy bones who gets paid to do absolutely nothing, he is morbidly obsessed with not becoming the irrelevance that he is.

      So in this effort to stay in the public eye, even his desire for a Scotland to remain subservient to London rule, even this can be sacrificed on the altar of his own ego. His altar-ego if you will.

      Wonder what Flipper makes of his intervention!

      A pleasure meeting you the other night at CH2 BTW. Next time I,m on the bell.

    123. TJenny says:

      Tam – just loved this line of yours;

      ‘even this can be sacrificed on the altar of his own ego. His altar-ego if you will.’ 🙂

      A bit O/T, re next WOS night out, Chipmonkey has posted that there are 2 World Cup quarter finals on the 4th July – but none on the next Friday, 11th July. Will the footy keep all the WOS footy fans away from a night out?

    124. arranc says:

      29th june 14.oo next p.q. rally

    125. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Absolutely must be widely distributed

      Just to say another excellent Sunday Herald with a particularly good editorial comment

    126. Defo says:

      moderation ?

    127. Defo says:

      Does mentioning Fifi la Bonbon get you auto-modded here ?


    128. TJenny says:

      Dave McEwan Hill – I hadn’t seen that particular vid of the PQ demo – the man and both the young women who spoke were highly articulate at voicing what we all think and say on here. That really needs to go viral methinks, and hopes. 🙂

    129. Defo says:

      Nob’s big bruvva just turned up. BNE

      Nob’s, BNEr’s… what is it with phalic symbols and the establishment. Public schooling, crossed with Terry ‘Bloodnoc’ Thomas fantasies.

    130. Defo says:

      Nob’s big bruvva just turned up. BNE

      Nob’s, BNEr’s… what is it with phalic symbols and the establishment. Public schooling, crossed with Terry ‘Bloodnoc’ Thomas fantasies.

    131. Ken500 says:

      The Lords have absolutely no powers. What’s it got to do with him or the rest of them, including Thatcher’s henchmen.

    132. Arabs for Independence says:

      The last funny thing that Lenny Henry was in was Dawn French

    133. Ken500 says:

      Don’t be fooled. Income tax is only 25% of taxes. Westminster is still trying to continue to take £Billions out of Scotland, including Oil tax revenues (taxed at 80%) to subsidise illegal wars, Trident and tax evasion (by foreign multinationals) through the City of London. Westminster and HMRC not fit for purpose. Vote YES.

    134. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. clashing with quarter finals. I know that a good game can be enjoyable, but I much prefer unique events. There will most probably be another World Cup in four years and Scotland might even have qualified. I think there are at least a couple of Yes events in Edinburgh on the 7th.

      P.S. I’m out off town from the 8th and would hate to miss two gatherings in a row. 😉

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, wrong month. Oops. I’ll just stand out of the way, if anyone needs me. 🙂

    136. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Does mentioning Fifi la Bonbon get you auto-modded here ?”

      Yes, unless you can produce some EVIDENCE that she was Kezia Dugdale.

    137. Ian Brotherhood says:

      NB for anyone going to see Jim Sillars/Colin Fox at the Vineburgh Community Centre (Quarry Rd, Irvine) this evening.

      It starts at 7 o’clock and will be busy, so if you want a seat get there a good bit earlier.

    138. Croompenstein says:

      @Ken500 – The Lords have absolutely no powers

      Any power they have is too much..

    139. Croompenstein says:

      @Ian – take a camera in case any ‘undesirables’ turn up looking for trouble.

    140. manandboy says:

      I watched a late show on BBC 2 last night about the Tobacco Industry and their attempts to counteract anti-smoking initiatives by various groups, including plain packaging.

      The Tobacco spokespeople featured on the programme reminded me so much of the No Campaign/UK Government.

      Apparently, 6,000,000 people die each year from smoking related illnesses.

      Meanwhile, using the same tactics – lies & denial –
      the UK Gov/No Campaign seeks to kill
      the right to self-determination
      of 5.3 million people living in Scotland.

      Stubbing out the hopes of a generation.

      David Cameron, Ruth Davidson & Johann Lamont say
      it’ll be worth it.

    141. galamcennalath says:

      Patrick Harvie made an excellent point on BtBC this morning.

      Each Unionist party offers something different in the event of a No.

      Suppose Scots vote Labour in 2015, but the Tories win overall in London. Which Devo plan do we get? The one we vote for or the one we are forced to take?

      This highlights the demoncratic deficit we can easily solve by simply voting YES!

    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Croompenstein –

      Cheers. Will do.

    143. heedtracker says:

      The democratic deficit?! A bloated rich man with a long silly name, in an even sillier furry cape, tells us all what to do from London and there’s loads more where this sleaze bag came from. If they didn’t have the BBC where would they be?

    144. Ken500 says:

      Fifi la Bon is a bad word. A misinterpreted racist old wo/man. The mystery identity.


      What happened to Meths? Kristina K? Those were the days.

    145. caz-m says:

      O/T Rev, I hope you can put this on twitter.

      Regarding the English FA and English media trying to have the Qatar World Cup bid cancelled because of bribes and corruption.

      England think that if the vote is taken again then they will win the rights to host the 2022 World Cup.

      England are trying to say that they are whiter than white and that you would never catch them out trying to win votes by offering sweetners.

      So what was David Beckam doing in Trinidad when England were bidding to host the 2018/2022 World Cup?

      England motto: Do as I say and not as I do.

    146. bunter says:

      @ caz-m

      No sooner did the London Times come out with the story of alleged bribery involving Qatar than Cameron is all over the TV saying how Beckham and the future king wis robbed.

      Not normally a conspiracy theorist, well just some times, but I smell a team GB bid for that world cup, to be shared across these islands.

      Only if we vote NAW!

    147. Les Wilson says:

      I want this one, Nocola v Danny Alexander tonight 10.30 BBC2.

    148. Les Wilson says:


    149. tommy kane says:

      Cameron will shut his gob when the Qatar Investment guys start thinking about removing their wealth from the City fund mangement

    150. kendomacaroonbar says:


      Totally agree. Even at conclusion of the bid process, I recall there was an element of expectation of success within the English FA entourage.

    151. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Les –

      I must’ve misheard – I thought they said Douglas Alexander. Then again, it could’ve been Alexander Douglas, Danny Douglas, Alexander Alexander, or Alexander Danny-Douglas.

      There’s definitely only one Nicola.

    152. HandandShrimp says:

      Tonight with Danny will be interesting. Danny has supped heavily of the Tory dark brew and is now an odd mixture of aloof condescension and tortured soul. I can’t see this being pretty to be honest.

    153. Stuart Black says:

      @IcySpark, welcome, come on in, the water’s lovely. 🙂

    154. Free Scotland says:

      galamcennalath at 8.08 above

      Spot on. None of the pro-union promise-makers know if they will ever be in a position to fulfil the promises they are making, so we’d have to be insane to listen to them. In saying that, I’m probably being rather generous to them. It is more likely that they have no intention of fulfilling the promises they are making. They could easily be distracted from their avowed intent by the call of another foreign war.

    155. Edward says:

      Listened to a bit of GMS this morning and was treated to a clip of guff from fattie Strathclyde spouting that having a parliament in Scotland was good, but the last several years was bad.

      Of course the ‘last several years’ just happens to have been when the SNP have been in charge.

      Any how Strather’s comes out with a good wheez, in that in the ‘last several years’ government in Scotland has become too centralised (where have I heard that one before?) and changes are needed.

      Now what struck me is this. It seems that Scottish Government has become centralised in Westminster’s eyes, yet when it comes to Westminster its not. Why is that?

      Its in much the same way that ‘First past the post’ voting system is good enough for Westminster, but the minion dominions in the north need something that’s a bit messy

      Thought, as ever, Patrick Harvie came across very well stating that the three (unionist, though cleverly didn’t say ‘unionist’) parties all put their proposals, but none were realistically guaranteed

    156. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the BNE spokescreature has insisted that Scotland would not be admitted into Europe until China has joined (or something like that)

      The spokescreature (pictured below) has also suggested that the EU may well consider the application from the microbes from the seas of the moon Europa before it could consider any application from Scotland.

    157. X_Sticks says:

      @Stuart Black

      Good to see you’re on welcoming duty Stuart!

      BTW Saw your post about the Marybank foodbank and would like to say what a good effort. I did look to see if I could contribite from afar, but they only take direct deliveries of foodstuffs, so not anything I could do to help from Aberdeen.

      Perhaps Wings could arrange some sort of fundraiser for them if some of you guys who are local could get stuff to them?

    158. Ken500 says:

      Unelected ‘Strathclyde’? has no mandate to speak for anyone.

    159. Ken500 says:

      @ X_Sticks

      MaryHILL Send them a cheque.

    160. caz-m says:


      Brilliant pic, LOL

    161. X_Sticks says:

      Oops, yes Maryhill, thanks Ken brain obviously not in gear yet! And, yes, I’ll send them a cheque if I can find my cheque-book 😀

    162. Stuart Black says:

      X_Sticks. Thanks for that. Julie and her crew are doing brilliant work there, but need all the help they can get. Check the Twitter feed @MaryhillBank for updates. They are looking into the possibility of a Paypal donation scheme, but for those far away who would like to contribute, you can send supermarket gift cards for now.

      The address is on the Twitter account. I am working in the Netherlands Monday to Friday, but when home I can provide transport and when I’m away my daughter can step in.

      It’s not a Trussell Trust affair, but a community led initiative and it’s inspiring to see the commitment from the people involved.

      Hellish that we need the damn things in the first place. I wonder how much the vermine robes that the fat twat in the photie’s wearing cost? .

    163. Ken500 says:

      Is it best to send (cheque) to Unit 7 or Maryhill Church? Sent to Maryhill Church last time. Different post codes.

    164. X_Sticks says:

      Thanks Stuart, tagged them on twitter, so will follow up after work.

      Yeah, 21st century “great” britain, eh? Foodbanks FFS!

      I’d cry if it didn’t make me so angry. Just got to turn the anger to action and get out there and win our sovereignty back from the shysters that have stolen it.

    165. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I make no apology for repeating this link. It is dynamite particularly for our young ladies.

      If there is another demonstration at PQ it has to be promoted with plenty of time with international agencies invited. RT would be happy to have a look I’m sure and the Spanish among others
      I’m listening to RT at the moment (channel 85 on Freeview) as I do every morning now.I understand fully where it is coming from and that is factored into what I hear from them but their judgement earlier on the US hypocrisy in Afghanistan was right on the button

    166. Stuart Black says:

      Hi Ken, that was good of you. The Church is just a wee bit up the road from the unit, and I think either address will be safe enough. Thanks.

    167. Stuart Black says:

      “…and win our sovereignty back from the shysters that have stolen it.”

      It’s our only hope…

    168. Ken500 says:

      On it’s way

      Love and peace

      : – }

    169. manandboy says:

      The changing face of what used to be BBC Scotland,

      now BBC v Scotland

    170. Stuart Black says:

      @Ken500, Love and Peace? A Rowson fan, perchance? 😉

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