stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Joke’s on you, suckers

Posted on June 12, 2018 by

A little over five years ago.

Strengthen, destroy, what’s a little slip of the tongue between friends?

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    161 to “Joke’s on you, suckers”

    1. scottieDog says:

      Strengthen the London plutocracy.

    2. mogabee says:

      Sure Ruth and her wee pals will be right out to explain why you are wrong Stu.How this will all be us being silly, worrying for nothing.

      Any.
      Moment.
      Now.
      And Now…

    3. Welsh Sion says:

      Ruthie speak with forked tongue. (‘Twas always so …)

      https://twitter.com/mrjohnnicolson/status/842717691261714434

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      Too fucking angry right now to say anything that might help.

      Devolution IS DEAD!!!

      You hearing that devo-makers.

      Devolution IS DEAD.

      NOW WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

    5. jfngw says:

      Devolution was the price that Labour thought they had to pay to retain their seats in Scotland and quell the independence calls. Now that they no longer have these, what they thought was in perpetuity, safe seat they are no longer that interested in devolution. It was merely a political move for party advantage.

      If they were truly the party of devolution the sound of their anger would be deafening, but what we have is total silence. What does that tell you?

      Tories, Labour & LibDems, they are in essence parties for England, any doubt was eradicated today.

    6. bobajock says:

      Raging. Utterly unbelievable tonight.

    7. Ken500 says:

      Write a letter to Westminster. Muck up their administration. An avalanche. Even anonymous. Or E-Mail.

    8. Sinky says:

      BBC National TV news fails to mention devolution amendments.

      BBC Scotland fails to mention Labour Lib Dem abstentions.

    9. K1 says:

      People have no idea what’s coming on the back of this. Labour abstained, the Tory scum filibustered and Scotland’s parliament is now potentially history. I literally have tears of rage about this.

      But then we knew it would be like this?

      Maybe just an optimist but I simply can’t believe that people voted for our parliament to be shorn of its powers, for this is exactly what has happened today. Henry the 8th powers now in place and Scotland’s parliament has been neutered. Every aspect of our economy handed over to Westminster to do with what they will…our farming, our fishing, our environmental controls, our NHS to be sold off, our water to be sold off…for trade deals with the likes of the US?

      So fucking upsetting, these people are bastards, this will destroy our country. We didn’t vote for any of this.

      Fucking hell guys…what now?

    10. doug_bryce says:

      I should be quite angry about this… However the reality is the Tories have walked into a massive political trap by dis-respecting devolution.

      At the next election the message will be very simple. Vote SNP if you believe in the single market and devolution. Neither Labour nor the Tories can be seen to stand up for Scotland anymore.

      However it gets better. There can be no brexit deal without NI remaining in the custom union and a sea border. The EU wont accept anything else. At which point the SNP simply ask that Scotland gets the same deal.

      Even better : remaining in the single market becomes the sensible economic de-facto decision to maintain the status-quo.

      The ducks are lined up perfectly.

    11. Terry says:

      Thanks Wings. It’s on days like this you’re most needed.

      Roll on Bannockburn.

    12. Remember these are not just any old Tory`s,

      these are Ruth Davidson`s Scottish Tory`s,

      promoted by the complicit BBC/STV MSM as,

      `Ruth Davidson`s Scottish Tory`s at Westminster to stand up for and protect Scottish interests`,

      always use the prefix `Ruth Davidson`s` when discussing these Tory monsters.

    13. One_Scot says:

      To be honest if I did not read The Revs twitter account I would not have a clue what was going on politically in Scotland or how much Westminster and the unionist MPs were Fcuking Scotland.

      Seems to be a case of the media in Scotland and at the UK level feeding Scotland shit and keeping us in the dark

      Really beginning to think not enough average Scots are get the full picture of how dire Scotland’s future is. A bit worrying to be honest.

    14. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The amazing thing about this outrage is that a lot of thick Scottish folk dont know whats going on.

      They will be helped by the regimes TV and newspapers who will manage the story as planned by the centre.

      Due to this attack on our democracy we need to change our approach we are dealing with enemies who are completely brazen.

      I dont know if they are trying to provoke some sort of backlash but it appears that is what they want.

      To save our country we need to do things differently.

    15. Ken500 says:

      The Tories/Unionists Parties have always been psycho bastards.

      Vote NO you get nothing. Maybe some people will learn.

    16. Capella says:

      Bannockburn on the 23rd, eve of battle, for an iconic gathering of the disenfranchised. Let’s demonstrate our intent to stop the madness now and protect our democracy. They crossed a line tonight and I’m calm but furious.

    17. jfngw says:

      BBC Scotland are probably already in advanced planning to cover the inauguration of Lord Mundell, First Viceroy of Scotland.

      As has been pointed out here on numerous occasions the bolstering of the UK Government office in Scotland has been planned for months. He will soon be lauding it over Scotland, despite the Tories having no mandate in Scotland at either Holyrood or Westminster.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Tories lie. Tories backstab. Tories cheat. Not news.

      Labour are as useful at that proverbial chocolate tea pot. This we knew too.

      All over Scotland tonight thousands of ordinary folks are angry as Hell.

      All over Scotland tonight thousands of other ordinary folks haven’t even noticed anything significant happen.

      The job now for the first group is to nag, badger, pester, cajole, the second lot relentlessly! Everyone in Scotland needs to understand what’s going on.

      From the Scottish Government down to the street stall activist, and the Yesser at their work or play … there is now a message to be spread.

      The media and BritNats will want to keep them ignorant. They need to fail in this.

    19. sassenach says:

      Like many others I am totally sick this evening. Having to live in this horrendous ‘Union’ is now well past a joke.

      But, and it’s a BIG but, how the hell can we reach all the ‘ordinary’ Scots who aren’t really bothered as they are told nothing by our totally biased media, and even when any indy supporting politician is on TV they are heckled throughout any interview?

      I wish I could just give up and say ‘What the heck’ – but I can’t and it makes it even more frustrating. I want Indy for my grandkids, but would love to be there myself when it happens!

    20. David Smith says:

      ACTIVE RESISTANCE NOW!

    21. Dr Jim says:

      If you’d watched STV tonight apart from John McKay’s incompetent interviewing you would have seen Tory MP Douglas the referee guy Ross blow the whole gaff

      He more or less admitted this power grab was only being done to deny the powers to be available for use by the SNP

      McKay uselessly tried to question this but allowed him to bang on about Independence and turn the topic away from the facts these powers on devolution are being denied to the *Scottish parliament* NOT the SNP personally

      As for Labour well there’s just nothing to be said about these putrid backstabbing grubbers

    22. Footsoldier says:

      On Scotland Tonight, Douglas Ross was not held remotely to account by a lightweight interviewing technique by John MacKay and was allowed to ramble on about the Welsh government.

      At one point John MacKay even apologised for interrupting. Oh for a Paxman type grilling technique.

    23. Greannach says:

      I hope nobody who voted No in 2014 is expressing outrage today. You don’t get to do that. You knew perfectly well what you were doing.

    24. Indy2 says:

      The ENGLISH are laughing at us because we are a shower of pushovers.

      When your main political party in Scotland doesn’t have a say or a voice, then it kinda knocks the shit out of you.

      Even although a rally will help, the ENGLISH are still be on track to steal powers from our Parliament.

      And with the World Cup starting and most folk preparing for a holiday. this Power Grab is nowhere near the top of their concerns.

      So the ONLY thing that will cancel out this Power Grab is for Nicola to name the date for a Referendum in the Autumn and hopefully hold IndyRef2 in 2019.

      That will make any power grab meaningless.

      As I said yesterday, Nicola and the SNP need to stop being soooooo fuckin nice.

      Get angry Nicola, at least it will show you care.

    25. Ken500 says:

      People will have to get angry? Vote SNP/SNP. Some did not vote in 2017. 1/2Million. If they had none of this would be happening. No taking Scottish Devolved powers. No Brexit etc. Another IndyRef. Everything would have been fine.

    26. Thepnr says:

      @sassenach

      We won’t give up. I won’t and I doubt you will either. We’re here for the long haul and it’s up to us to persuade our friends and family of the benefits of Independence.

      We’ll never give in, have faith.

    27. Indy2 says:

      Westminster really is an irrelevance to Scotland.

      Whether we have 6 MPs or 56 MPs or 35 MPs,,it matters not a jot.

      We are there to be slapped about by our London Masters whenever the notion comes over them to slap us about.

      And when they get bored slapping us about , they just start shittin on us.

      We are a laughing stock.

      Time for some big changes needed. Something dramatic has to happen to restore the faith we have lost in our political leaders.

    28. Scottish Steve says:

      Even after this betrayal, many Scots will insist it’s the SNP that’s to blame for all of Scotland’s woes and nothing wrong or malicious can come from glorious Westminster. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome. Makes me feel hopeless.

    29. Thepnr says:

      @Indy2

      Either your a nutjob or just not very good at the trolling.

    30. dakk says:

      Never expect anything decent to come out of the cesspit English Parliament. They are a long lost cause.

      This is now the acid test for the SNP in how they mobilise the long dormant Scottish democracy.

      It won’t be easy,but if they,who are the only ones with any real voice can’t do something to reach the low information and apathetic masses, then who can?

      Wings and ordinary folk can only do so much,but the professional politicians with a platform need to come up with a battle plan to save Scotland from these British vermin.

    31. Jimboy says:

      This stealing of powers is more relevant to us achieving indie.if people actually know about this happening, because I think many in Scotland want powers at Hollyrood to remain there but do not want independance. I always wonder if a ref vote was held with an all or nothing choice would the choice be for all (independence)

    32. Ken500 says:

      Having 52+ SNP MP’s would have stopped what is happening. There would have been no loss of devolved powers. No Brexit and another IndyRef. If more people in Scotland had gone out to vote. 1/2million did not vote as per 2015 GE. The Tory/unionists could have been stopped. Still can. Westminster are making a big mistake.

    33. The Dog Philosopher says:

      Exactly why Sein Fein avoid that place.

      Non-unionist parties are treated with contempt. You can’t expect any kind of democracy for a less-populated nation when it’s representatives are overwhelmingly outnumbered by ones from a more-populated nation.

      Ergo, ‘Democracy is Screwed’.

      As for the media, until Scotland establishes itself as an independent nation it can expect to be treated as a subordinated, inconsequential region of a larger state.

    34. Phronesis says:

      Scotland , the country should take its leave from the disunited kingdom as soon as possible. Participatory and deliberative democracy are 2 sides of the same coin- neither demonstrated in WM. The traditional con/lab/libdem combo is failing, the democratic process is broken, Brexit is a culmination of the politics of fear and loathing,the damage to population well-being and its known economic harms will be a human rights issue. Any elected representative of Scotland should support the democratic mandate that states Scotland wants something different for Scotland.

      ‘In most cases, this politics of fear is not supported by the facts. Take Sweden as an example. The country took in an unprecedented number of refugees in 2015 – 163,000. To give an idea of what this means, if the UK had taken an equivalent share based on its population, it would have been around 950,000 (the UK took in 37.000). However, since then the Swedish economy has grown three times faster than the other Nordic countries and twice the EU average… Now as then, politics by fear does not build on facts or rational argumentation… there is a lot to lose if and when those political forces who want to safeguard a more equitable, more democratic and more equal society based on solidarity march to the tune of the politics of fear… Where is there a policy based on hope?’

      http://www.socialeurope.eu/politics-of-fear-versus-politics-of-hope

      ‘More recently, the anti-immigrant story has flared into life again. All the Powellite language was used to denounce incomers from Europe culminating in the notorious Leave poster showing Britain invaded by a snaking queue of Levantine refugee-immigrants…Now the right-wing Policy Exchange think-tank has come up with some deeply unpleasant suggestions that Europeans doing the low-pay, anti-social work the true born Brit shuns should be branded with biometric identification, finger-printed, and not allowed to have the same income as fellow British workers doing the same job, then booted out after two years…
      Gordon Brown, under the baleful influence of Treasury neo-liberal ideologues, instructed Labour MEPs and party representatives drawing up European election manifestos to oppose core social justice measures…Both Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem ministers share the responsibility for the abolition of effective craft apprenticeship training. This led to the arrival of Irish and continental Europeans who were properly trained as electricians, plumbers, carpenters– trades Britain stopped training for in the Thatcher years’

      http://www.socialeurope.eu/reforming-freedom-of-movement-to-support-british-workers-and-reduce-immigration

      ‘Currently, financial firms based in Britain have “passports” allowing them to do business in any of the other EU countries on the same terms as firms based in any of those countries…

      The transition to a post-Brexit world also needs to be carefully managed to minimize disruption in market services and activities, and maintain a sound and effective supervision of financial activities. Because operating costs may increase during the transition as banks may have to duplicate operations and relocate staff, many banks have begun to draw contingency plans and explore various relocation alternatives. Some institutions may even opt to exit or scale back specific business lines’

      https://blogs.imf.org/2017/05/29/chart-of-the-week-brexit-and-the-city/

      “Yet at home, momentum is set to remain weak. Households remain under pressure from lacklustre wage growth, while businesses are grappling with skill shortages. In some sectors, particularly retail, trading environments remain tough…Brexit uncertainty continues to loom large’

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/dynamism-needed-on-domestic-front-to-help-power-uk-economy/

      ‘Vacancies are at a record high and access to skills and labour is a huge concern for businesses. Government could help immediately by removing all shortage occupations from the tier 2 visa cap so employers – including the NHS – can access the skills they need’

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/stubbornly-slow-pay-growth-means-living-standards-remain-under-pressure/

    35. Returnofthemac says:

      Did we really expect them to take notice of our parliament.no fckin way. This was always the outcome and the fact that theBritish biased corporation fails to mention it comes as no surprise either.
      My wee newsagent wummin hates Nicola with a passion her man takes no interest in any political party “they’re aw the same” fcksake they are not aw the same wake up from your comfortable I don’t need to worry about me club attitude and think about the country you want your children and grandchildren to live in.

    36. Juan says:

      Regardless of how many SNP MP’s there are at Westminster, unless they’ve been elected on an Indy mandate they’re impotent. Even if we have 30 SNP MP’s on an Indy mandate, that’s the power to dissolve the “Union”.

      There are NO UNIONISTS. They are COLONIALISTS and COLONIALISTS ENABLERS.

      It’s us that have to take the gloves off. It’s us that have to stop being so nice. Scotland is a COLONY. This isn’t a Union it’s an OCCUPATION.

      Don’t denigrate the No voters. Be nice to no voters we need their vote. Why be nice? They’re comfortable supporting a “Union”, not so being called out as the colonialist enabling cunt they are.

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well but you must be wrong Rev because the Scottish Conservatives tweeted this morning:

      .@PM4EastRen explains why @ScotTories are supporting plans to strengthen devolution and protect the Union today.

      https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1006537105051287552

      So basically speaking, that HOC vote DID NOT HAPPEN!

      Nothing to see here, walk on by, that dead thing in the gutter is Devol…, Devil, Evil, EVEL, oh forget it.

    38. yesindyref2 says:

      Uh Oh, here we go. From Gollum Fraser “My Precious Union”, gleefully dancing on the edge of the Cracks of Doom with the One Ruling in his hands:

      This from a First Minister who ignored a ruling from the @ScotParl Presiding Officer on the competence of the EU Continuity Bill. Who has no respect, exactly?

      quoting Sturgeon:

      The Tories couldn’t have made it any clearer today that they have no respect for @ScotParl. Never again will the line that Scotland is an equal partner in Westminster system be believed. The decision to act without our consent, and the manner of doing it, will not be forgotten.

      https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1006637120302342144

      What happens next? Mmmm?

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      @K1 “Henry the 8th powers now in place and Scotland’s parliament has been neutered.

      Not yet it hasn’t, K1, not yet.

      1). UKSC for the Continutity Bill coming up soon
      2). Holyrood will withold consent to the EU Withdrawal Bill
      3). Well now, that’s the question isn’t it?

    40. ben madigan says:

      Time for all SNP voters and members to demand their SNP branches in the MPs constituencies call an urgent emergency meeting on the proposal

      “we call our MP back to Scotland and support his/her abstentionism from Westminster”.

      Hopefully the MPs agree!
      There’s plenty of work for them to do in their constituencies and elsewhere in Scotland

      Once those motions are passed, there will be a breathing space to formulate an emergency SNP policy on abstentionism.
      Pity this happened after conference, not a week or two before.

      And Scotland can take it forward from there as things develop

      Never again should Scotland be humuliated in this way or put herself in a position to be humiliated

    41. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Jeremy Corbyn curbin’ Scottish hopes. Without a hint of remorse.

      No unionists left now north of the border. You’re either an anti-democratic Britnat or a Scottish patriot.

    42. Ken500 says:

      Calling SNP MP’s back would be right in the Tories barrel. NI has had no devolved Gov for 18 months. Tories have DUP support. Sin Fein MP’s could have brought the Tories down. 52+ SNP MP’s could have stopped it happening. No loss of devolved powers. No Brexit. Another IndyRef. SNP would have had the necessary support. The Tories have been humiliated. They could not make a bigger mess. It will not end well.

      This could be the tipping point.

    43. Juan says:

      quoting Sturgeon:
      “The Tories couldn’t have made it any clearer today that they have no respect for @ScotParl. Never again will the line that Scotland is an equal partner in Westminster system be believed. The decision to act without our consent, and the manner of doing it, will not be forgotten.”

      Maybe now that it’s clear that “Scotland is not an equal partner in Westminster” we can all dispense with the pleasantries towards those who’ve shackled us and subjugated us under English colonialist rule. Voting against your own country’s self governance is not NORMAL. Its an act of betrayal. It’s a vote to continue the occupation of Scotland. It’s a vote to deny your own folk democracy. Time to make the No voters uncomfortable. Time to question why they hate their own country? There’s no respectable position in wanting your own country rule over by another country. It’s just not NORMAL.

      Nobody votes Tory for their competence and compassion. They’re at best xenophobic, many out and out racist. They’re policies persecute the poor, kill the disabled, deny Scots DEMOCRACY and are complicit in the regimes war crimes. A no vote in 2014 was a vote for these policies to continue being inflicted by a foreign regime forced upon us by our neighbour.

      They’re laughing at us now. Time we took the kids gloves off. Time to get real.

    44. Highland Wifie says:

      Really angry over the utter contempt with which Scotland is being treated. But not surprised.
      It’s hard to believe that any modern democratic country could find itself in this position and yet so many people are either complicit or totally ignorant of what’s going on.

      The lines are drawn, the chess pieces are set up but it feels like we are getting to the really dangerous part of this showdown. The challenge to the continuity bill hasn’t taken place yet and the SG hasn’t officially withheld consent yet. Timing is on a pretty sharp knife edge. Act too soon and it plays into WM’s hands, too late and it’s game over for Scotland.
      I hope Nicola and co have got their finger on the trigger. We need to get out.

    45. yesindyref2 says:

      The UK Gov is challenging the ScotParl EU Continuity Bill in the UKSC. Perhaps the ScotGov should challenge the UKParl EU Withdrawal Bill in the UKSC at the same time.

      The UK is a midden.

    46. Artyhetty says:

      So that’s Labour for you, scheming, lying troughers. All pretendy support for devolution at Holyrood, while they knew perfectly well exactly how their pals in WM would be voting, or rather, sitting on their dirty scheming hands. Tories were never going to vote any other way than to removed powers from Scotland’s parliament and democratically elected government.

      To have read that they literally laughed at SNP MP’s who tried to speak at the ‘debate’ is just sickening it really is.

      UntRuth Davidson better come up with something really good to explain just why she has conned the people, even Tory voters in Scotland. Can she hide behind her BBC pals. probably as usual. Disgusting.

      Re; HIghland Wifie@1.43am

      Totally agree, let’s see what Nicola Sturgeon has to say next.
      Scotland is in a dangerous situation, so share as much as possible info and facts like WoS everywhere we can, people need to know what’s going on.

    47. Liz g says:

      Well…. We’ve had Enough
      But has most of Scotland?
      We are no the ones who need to be angry.. Well no the only ones!

      This is I think the real question?

      (Mibbi the Rev has his slogan… Enough seems to be the reoccurring word)

      I don’t think the SNP should do a thing, they have told us often “Enough “
      When we’ve had “Enough “, just let them know!
      And when there is “Enough “ of us sayin it!
      Then they will facilitate the desolving of the Union!
      But until then,they will do the Westminster thing and Scotland can watch…

      Westminster is no going Tonto.. May got her way,didn’t she?
      They are the heirs of Thatcher, and when it comes to “The Enemy Within”,now the Scots apparently
      The only is to be clear about Who Governs !
      This is what they are trying to establish, and the justification for it is the 2014 vote!!

      This is no the Scottish Westminster MPs decision, we don’t pay them to quit,
      They stay.. until we say….So
      Scotland…. Have ye had Enough?

    48. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      This is very good news for us. Anger fuel.

      Rev, you’ll have a field day with this.

    49. Cactus says:

      X days remaining to go.

      What do we want, independence, when do we want it, now.

      What did they steal, devolution, when did they steal it, yesterday.

      What do we do, go marching People, where n when do we do it…

      Bannockburn, Stirling, Scotland.

      X days remaining to go.

    50. Macart says:

      Measured response.

      Be angry by all means, but be measured. This was entirely expected by Westminster government. It is who they are and what they do.

      Oh and the SNP aren’t the problem here. They never were. They work within the boundaries the PUBLIC set for them in 2014. It’s the public who need convincing. It’s persuadable no voters from the first indyref.

      Those who felt federalism possible. Those who were intimidated and voted out of fear or uncertainty. Those who felt indy, but not yet and those who felt ‘give devolution one more go for old times sake’.

      Back then they couldn’t or wouldn’t believe UK gov or Westminster parliament would do what they have done in that chamber. Whatever the reason, we simply failed to convince enough of the electorate last time out.

      Today, mibbies some folk will be more open to reason. So yeah, we could go all outraged (plenty of reason to be sure) and tilt at windmills. Or… mibbies there’s some folk out there looking for help and a reason to help us set things straight.

      Worth a thought.

    51. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 12 June, 2018 at 11:00 pm:

      “Tories lie. Tories backstab. Tories cheat. Not news.
      Labour are as useful at that proverbial chocolate tea pot. This we knew too.
      All over Scotland tonight thousands of ordinary folks are angry as Hell.
      All over Scotland tonight thousands of other ordinary folks haven’t even noticed anything significant happen.”

      Since ever I commented on Wings I have been telling Wingers the true situation and often got pelters for doing so. I persisted and slowly the truth is beginning to penetrate.

      I called the United Kingdom Government, “The Westminster Establishment”, and explained it had almost always been a sham. There really isn’t a government and an opposition because the Westminster party system has always been a sham.

      All Westminster based political parties are, “Unionist”, but for, Unionist read English Nationalists and when the chips are down the Establishment acts as one. If they do not all vote against Scotland enough of the so called opposition will abstain in order to allow the Establishment to persist.

      Collectively, all unionist, (for unionist read English Nationalists, or English Patriots), a.k.a. The Establishment.

      Now here’s the way it has worked since 1688 and is just continuing what was developing then. In 1688 The Kingdom of England parliamentarians, rebelled against their monarchy and the main reason they had for doing so was simply because the King of Scotland had inherited the Crown of England and the crown of England had annexed the crown of Wales in 1284 and annexed the crown of Ireland in 1542.

      The arranged marriage that led to the King of Scots inheriting the crowns of all other British kingdoms was not supposed to happen. It was supposed to work the other way with the monarchy of England inheriting the Crown of Scotland.

      It must be remembered that England, Wales & Ireland were, until 1688, all under the rule of Law of “Divine Right of Kings”, a.k.a “Sovereign Monarchy). The King/Queen’s word was law. The first aim of the parliamentarian rebels was to rid themselves of the King of Scots but they had already prevented the law of, “Divine Right of Kings”, being invoked as James VI of Scotland was only King of Scots and not a sovereign monarch under Scots law. Thus, not being sovereign, he could not give away Scottish Sovereignty as the people, not the king, are sovereign under Scots law.

      However, that gave the English Parliament a real problem. The King of Scots was also the King of England and as such he was sovereign and everyone, including the parliamentarians, were his subjects and English law was/is based upon that tenet.

      So they deposed their monarch but assumed, (wrongly), that their actions also applied to Scotland and thus began the Jacobite uprisings in support of the Scottish monarchy for an independent English parliament had no legal right to depose a Scottish King. Yet they still refer to the uprisings as, “The Jacobite rebellion”, but you cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own – that means the actual rebels were the English parliamentarians.

      Their solution was to offer the Crown of the Kingdom of England To Mary of Orange but Mary refused it. Her reason being that she did not want her Husband to be her consort. They then offered the Crown of England to Mary and Billy as joint monarchs of he three country Kingdom of England but illegally also offered the Crown of Scotland but, in 1688 Scotland was still an independent kingdom. They also forced William & Mary to legally sign their sovereignty, (divine right of kings), to the English Parliament but that could not legally apply to the still independent Kingdom of Scotland.

      The second thing the English rebel parliamentarians did was to fudge the Divine Right of Kings Rule of Law. They got their legal people to rule that sovereignty belonged to the Kingdom and a sovereign monarch, just by being sovereign, could not give away the sovereignty of the kingdom but they included the still independent Kingdom of Scotland in that legal judgement.

      This made the Kingdom of England a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, but they applied this also the still independent Kingdom of Scotland that had change the law of Divine Right of Kings by the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320. This was why they had to instigate the Darien Expedition to bankrupt, (not Scotland), but the wealthy landowning Scottish parliamentarians.

      In 1706/7 Scotland had no national debt but England would have gone bankrupt through national debts if not for the subscription scheme set up by the London Scot Willian Paterson who also came to Edinburgh and set up the Darien Scheme. Now add to those facts that the English were still killing Jacobites in 1745 – that is overv39 years after the Treaty of Union was signed.

      So there you go – what they did yesterday is just exactly what they were doing in 1603 when they claimed there was a, “Union of the Crowns”, that never legally happened, as in 1688 and the English, “Glorious Revolution”, when they deposed their monarchy but claim this applied to a still independent Scotland and as they did in 1706/7 by forcing a Treaty of Union and they acted illegally when the instigated devolution of the powers of a United Kingdom Parliament that was always the de facto parliament of the Kingdom of England but by not devolving powers also to the non-existent parliament of England they were actually devolving the powers of the de facto parliament of the country of England and while that is bad enough for the already parts of the Kingdom of England, (Wales & N.I.), it is insulting in the extreme to relegate their actual only kingdom partner in the two partner United Kingdom to being no more than the two countries the English Kingdom annexed in 1284 and 1542 respectively.

      Why would any( well educated in real history), Scottish person have believed for a second that, THE ESTABLISHMENT,” would have somehow changed its spots yesterday?

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      I’m genuinely surprised at the anger and upset. It wasn’t certain this would happen, but very likely, and it has. It’s many a year since Westminster has had any respect for Scottish MPs, they were voting fodder, and Corbyn’s visits to Scotland confirm that they still are. Labour want their votes – or abstentions at Westminster. Only recently now the Tories need the same, but that’s all they care about, not Scotland itself. As for the SNP MPs they are objects of derision, with the speaker who deserves a small “S” not a big one, allowing it to happen all the time.

      As for Holyrood the Tories wish it didn’t exist, and perhaps the UK Labour and LibDem parties are the same, in contrast to the Scottish ones who have supported the Scottish Government against the assault on Devolution.

      As far as it goes though, up to now even the Bill might not have passed, now it’s one more nail in the coffin of the Precious Union. Still a few to go yet though, so it’s far too early to sound general quarters and sound abandon ship, even though we ourselves would love to do so, the rest are still dancing and dining below decks to the sound of Nero’s fiddle.

      The boy stood on the burning deck whence all but he had fled.

      Twit.

    53. Cactus says:

      Tell everyone about X!

      Bannockburn is pretty well placed on the Map of Scotland for many and all to get to… take a bus, grab a train, hitch a ride an let’s do this again.

      Looking forward to the speakers et al and seeing the turnout.

      Try some new topical banners/posters for the march like…

      “WANTED: For theft of devolution, the nasty people”
      “REWARD: Independence” (and that’s priceless)

      Hey, could someone (maybe bbc) try to live interview the faded uk jacket guy if he’s there (is it MacConnachie or summin) give him and his supporters a neutral say on film, could be entertaining 🙂

      This is it!

    54. Ghillie says:

      Cactus, thank you for making me smile a wee bit =)

      Been so so angry and utterly grossed out by Westminster today.
      (there’s an expression I haven’t used for many a year!)

      Am liking your idea of ‘Wanted for theft of Devolution’ posters. Reward: Independence 🙂

      Mibee Chris could russel up something real aye catching =)

    55. winifred mccartney says:

      Mundell must resign – another promise broken – remember he said not enough time to debate bill before going to Lords but when it comes back it will be amended. Always remember if a a tory’s lips are moving they are lying.

      Mundell does not even pretend to represent Scotland he is just a WM insider betraying Scotland at every turn – his mission is to take over Scotland for the Tories – just look at the size of the Scottish Office and look at the actions of the tory mp’s from Scotland and of course Ruth is in hiding and no one from the BBC is even trying to get hold of her. Not biased – in a pigs ear.

    56. Ghillie says:

      OT Sort of. Well here’s a kinda interesting thing.

      Go onto ‘Scotland Tonight’ twitter and the only time their ‘likes’ go into double figures (from zero to 3 or 4 at best) in the last few days, are attached to comments by Ian Blackford SNP MP on the disgusting Westminster contempt for Scotland.

      Dear John, fucking wake up! Love your Clan’s woman!! Yes sweetheart, we have met.

    57. Fergus Green says:

      In the cold light of day, the best option seems to be to call the referendum early, withdraw our MPs from WM and have them spend their time visiting every household in Scotland and explaining why they are wasting their time at WM while making the positive case for Independence. Our MPs have jobs and salaries, so why not make productive use of their time?

    58. Vestas says:

      I can’t help wondering what it will actually take for the SNP to call indyref2?

      Personally I have little to no confidence in them actually being willing to tell Westminster “Enough! We’re calling indyref2”.

      We won’t even have a chance to vote again the way things are going. Craig Murray had this nailed a long time ago :

      WE WON’T WIN PLAYING BY THEIR RULES!

    59. Luigi says:

      A new Scottish castle for Governor Mundell, eh?

      Sounds like a good rallying point for the rebels. Like flies to a dunghill.

      I hope Governor Mundell is building a secure moat and bailey around his castle – he will need one.

    60. Capella says:

      The National article on the ‘vile suicide heckle’ in the Commons to Ian Blackford.

      https://tinyurl.com/ydep7tj8

    61. Ken500 says:

      You will win voting SNP/SNP. It’s because people didn’t this has happened. People did not vote.

      Divide and rule is the game for people like Craig Murray. UDI will not happen because people will not vote for it. Scotland has always gone within the Law..

      Constantly criticising the SNP for some petty grievance is pathetic. It influenced people not to vote. Or even to give up hope. Giving up just helps the Tories/unionists. Not getting an e-mail returned or some such nonsense. When are being sanctioned and starved,

      Or voting Labour when they support Independence or say they do. Corbyn and Labour are a lost cause. Useless. They could have voted the Tories out 12 Sept 2017. EVEL vote. They let the farce continue. Shameful.

      Some people never learn. Just cut off theur nose to spite their face. They really are pathetic.

      It could be the tipping point.

      Get writing to Westminster tell them what you think. Instead of criticising others. People march for miles and hours. Just get out a pen and paper and a stamp. An avalanche.

      Get out and join the SNP and commit. Instead of sitting on the fence.

    62. sinky says:

      No mention of the Labour n Lib Dem abstentions in this mornings Herald or BBC headlines.
      Scotsman relegated it to page 7 where they bizarrely say Labour’s Paul Sweetened led the complaints to speaker about lack of time.
      Daily Mail front page ignores story altogether

    63. Robert Louis says:

      Westminster does not respect reasonableness.

      Westminster does not respect ‘willingness to talk’.

      Westminster does not respect ‘ open to constructive partnership ideas’.

      Westminster does not respect ‘mutual respect’ or compromise’.

      They regard ALL of that as weakness.

      Westminster understand just one thing so far as Scotland is concerned, the metaphoric gun held to its head of a referendum on Scottish independence or a threat of the union being ended.

      The ONLY reason Tories keep barking on about ‘no independence referendum’ is simply this, they know full well that right now, with their government in disarray and arguing within themselves and with the EU, there is NO WAY they could fight against an independence campaign effectively.

      I do not understand why NOBODY within the SNP can see that blindingly obvious fact.

      Call the referendum, and then Westminster might, just might, actually have a modicum of respect for you. They understand nothing else.

      As things stand, democracy within the supposed ‘union of equals’ was ended by Westminster last night. It is time the SNP stopped telling us all, ‘oh we can’t do that’. They need to think. If such a tawdry state of affairs happened in any other countries, do we seriously think Government representatives would not be doing everything in their powers to frustrate those responsible. Yet, all I hear is the FM telling everyone, that they remain open to discussions etc.. Jeezo.

      This is a fight, and the SNP need to get to grips with that.

    64. starlaw says:

      SNP must now start to refer to Scotland being colony of England, this must be aired often enough to get Scots and any one wishing to live here to see ourselves as a colony. that just might focus the can’t be bothered among us to open their eyes.

    65. Nana says:

      Links

      https://news.gov.scot/news/modern-apprenticeship-target-surpassed

      Our Chair @PeteWishart asks how large the UK’s oil reserve is? We hear from @oilandgasuk that there are 10-20 billion barrels of oil left, 80% off of the coast of Scotland – it’s a long-term sustainable industry.
      https://twitter.com/CommonsScotAffs/status/1006466811825655808

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2018/06/11/facing-down-british-nationalism/

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/06/12/scotlands-tragedy/

    66. Nana says:

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/foreign-direct-investment-in-scotland-at-10-year-high/

      Hello! We’re Scotia: a new 30 minute news show launching Saturday June 23. Aged 16-35 & want to join our 1st audience on the housing crisis? Apply on our now live website: https://thescotia.scot
      https://twitter.com/The_Scotia/status/1006133811623677954

      https://nation.cymru/2018/the-withdrawal-bill-shows-that-westminster-will-never-work-for-wales/

      Former Irish prime minister ‘appalled’ at state of British politics
      http://archive.is/85Pbe

    67. Ken500 says:

      After Thatcher how can anyone vote Tory in Scotland? Especially the older ones who lived through it. It is just a mystery. Scotland lied and cheated since 1928 and before. Westminster corruption and lies. A total shambles. They could not make a bigger mess. Yet in Scotland people still vote unionists. The unionists Parties corrupted the electoral system in Scotland, To make this happen. Their betrayal of the voters is unique. Some people never learn.

    68. ALANM says:

      @Vestas
      “I can’t help wondering what it will actually take for the SNP to call indyref2”?

      We’ve got to remember that although 45% of voters are furious this morning; most of the remaining 55% will be quietly satisfied that Westminster has now put the SNP back in its box.

      Calling inderef2 now is risky but would at least flush out the enemy in our midst. My own view is that the next referendum would be better fought against a background of hope and optimism rather than hate and anger.

    69. Smallaxe says:

      Scotland the Brave or Scotland the Slave:

      What’s it to be people?

    70. Breeks says:

      Last night wasn’t make or break for Scotland’s chances of Independence, but I feel there’s a distinct possibility what happens next might be make or break for the SNP’s chances of leading us there.

      People are sounding off about the SNP, not to be anti-SNP, but because that’s where the frustration is being felt. We expect Westminster to shit on us, but we voted SNP to bring them down for doing it. Westminster spits in our face, again, and we are still ducking the issue of our Sovereign Constitution and instead, shuffling our feet towards the mythical day when we can see the definitive final Brexit Deal.

      Westminster meanwhile dances bare naked in the moonlight all over the Treaty of Union, and exploits every nook and cranny and dubious interpretation of the words to suit its own ends, while here in Scotland, when it’s our safeguards being trampled, such safeguards which were pitifully weak already, we avoid using the word “Independence” lest it make us unpopular, and we dare not look at the riddle of why we Sovereign citizens of Scotland are not Sovereign.

      If I was leader of the SNP, I would fight fire with fire. Since Westminster seeks to conduct its parliamentary business without Scotland, then quid pro quo, we are a Union of equals after all, so Scotland is entitled to do likewise.

      I would remove our Scottish members of Parliament from Westminster, and I would also remove our Scottish members of Parliament from Holyrood, and in a suitable time and place, perhaps even on the field of Bannockburn with the AUOB crowd looking on, reconvene the essential SOVEREIGN Parliament of Scotland, in an open field without all the trappings and distractions of protocol, and have it call for Scotland’s International recognition.

      It isn’t a UDI. It is the objective affirmation that Westminster in its blind arrogance has finally destroyed the last vestiges of the Treaties of Union, leaving the Union irremediably broken, and the Nation of Scotland silenced, leaderless, and in Constitutional limbo until such times as Scotland’s Sovereign people have taken for themselves a legitimate and internationally recognised government.

      WE ARE SOVEREIGN HERE. We can do whatever we like and challenge our enemies to overturn it at their peril.

      We can recall our Sovereign Scottish Parliament, have it formally exist as Scotland’s Sovereign Interlocutor, and call for a snap Scottish General Election to elect its members. If Unionists shun it, then fine, they are shunning their chance to exercise the sovereign will of Scotland. That’s nothing worse than what they’re doing already in Westminster, and indeed Holyrood. All the more seats for truly sovereign patriots.

      If the SNP hasn’t the stomach for it, then we should do it regardless. 2016 gave us a Sovereign mandate to fight Scotland’s removal (actually the UK’s removal) from the EU. That mandate hasn’t so far been picked up by anyone… yet.

    71. sinky says:

      Ian Blackford makes it clear that Labour’s claims on abstention does not mean voting for original proposal but to send it back to House of Lords for further consideration.

      Might watch PMQs at noon as six SNP mps down for questions

    72. Highland Wifie says:

      Good morning Nana.
      Thanks for links though not sure I’m feeling up to reading much this morning after the debacle in WM yesterday.
      What a pathetic excuse for democracy the UK is.

    73. Ken500 says:

      The SNP will call Indy2 when people vote for it. Vote their support. Instead of not voting at all. That’s what happened a year ago. The vote is in people’s hands. Use it. Or lose it. Some of the one’s who did not vote (SNP) are the one’s complaining the most. They should hang their heads in shame. A tick on a box was too much trouble for them. Unbelievable.

      Join and commit or lose it. The fight will just just carry on. This is just another set back but could be the tipping point.

      The Tories could not make a bigger mess. Westminster is a shambles. A total disgrace.

    74. Nana says:

      @Highland Wifey

      I know how you feel. We all knew Westminster would do the dirty, they always have. From what I’ve seen on social media I reckon they have gone too far in the hope we jump too soon.

      The continuity bill is the main event so we must be patient as that is the game changer and they know it.

      There is a surge in snp membership at the moment as well.

    75. Ken500 says:

      Some people are so pathetic. They did not vote SNP but are still complaining. Honest to goodness. Cut off their nose to spite their face because they did not get an e-mail reply. Or some such considered slight..Or some ridiculous argument or point scoring. They just do not get it. They are the problem. If more people had come out to vote SNP last year. IndyRef would be on the table and none of this would be happening. They were warned once again and ignored it. How many more times? Until they get it? Vote No you get nothing. Do not vote you get nothing.

    76. Highland Wifie says:

      @Nana
      Yes it’s a very dangerous time. Good to know people are still waking up.
      Roll on Bannockburn!

    77. Macart says:

      @yesindyref 2 3.37

      Yes. It was avoidable by Westminster government, but I had zero doubts it’s exactly what they would do regardless. Pet theme of mine, but Westminster will be Westminster. Their own nature determined their course from 19.9.14.

      People need to understand the nature of what they’re dealing with and they also need to understand that if they voted no in 2014, this is what they actually voted for. This is the blank cheque they gave that institution. They chose poorly, but they can choose again.

      What happened yesterday isn’t on the SNP. They work within the constraints set for them by the public in 2014. They work within the powers they are allowed to exercise by the public and by the devolution settlement (NOW ASH). There is more yet to come from this summer in the form of an SC appearance and Brexit. Yesterday is by no means the worst that Westminster government will do to ALL of the devolved legislatures and the populations of these islands.

      Now is a time to be angry, sure, but it’s not the time to fly off half mad with rage. Lose it now and we lose it all. They need the YES movement to go off on one. They need their opponent to fly into a rage. Nothing, but NOTHING, would make them happier. An enraged opponent is an easy target.

      Measured response and process will do what all the rage in the world can’t. It’ll skewer those sociopaths where and when it hurts most.

      Personally, I reckon NOW is the time to start talking to those soft nos from last time out. Reassure them. Hold out our hand. They’re not alone and unlike the unionist parties and their howf on the Thames, they CAN count on us.

    78. Ken500 says:

      It’s the people who do not vote SNP or do not vote. They are the problem. The one’s who do the most complaining or criticise. Yet do not vote. Or vote unionist. Unbelievable. They have the vehicle (SNP) and have the vote but do not use it.

      Bleat on and on about sovereignty but do not use their vote to support it. Then demand UDI. Misguided doesn’t come into it. Useless.

    79. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Mornin’ Nana. YEP. The RobynLStewart link has it nailed. 😉

    80. Ken500 says:

      Put a cross on a box or lose it. Simple. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. How many times before people get the message?

    81. Golfnut says:

      @ Liz g

      Well said Liz, to many people forgetting just what Nicola said, she will be viewing the diatribe directed at her with some sadness, but remember a lot of it will come from those who wish to cause division.
      Should we be surprised at what happened last night, of course not. Should we be angry, of course we should, but our anger should be directed at Westminster.

    82. Nana says:

      Good morning Macart.

      I’m seeing the anger out there as well as on here and it seems an awful lot of people have forgotten all about the continuity bill.

      As you say now is the time to talk to anyone who will listen.

      Also every one of us should be proud of our snp mps right now, for what they have had to endure on our behalf.

    83. Clootie says:

      A con depends on the mark believing the story NOT on the truth.
      Once again my fellow Scots put their trust in the Union and it’s loyal servants.

      The fault lies with us. The change must come from within. It starts with using your eyes and ears…..take a long hard look at Scotland IN the Union.

    84. Bob Mack says:

      Put your anger in a box for later. Now is not the time. This is the time to use your energy to invigorate the call for independence . We have seen the historical extension uttered by the English speaker of the House of Commons following the Treaty of Union. “We’ve catched them ,now we,ll haud them” A traditional enemy neutered by financial incentive.

      That war continues to this day and we are the front line soldiers. Our weapons are information and justice and Democracy. All the things they deny us. It is a war of a different kind. It is a war for the hearts and minds of our own people, many of whom have been cowed by centuries of acceptance. It is a war to persuade folk that they no longer need to be a victim of injustice or intolerance.

      One thing I learned working with folk with Psychological problems is that events can destroy lives, and create a sense of helplessness. I also discovered that these same events can be turned to advantage and folk can re energise and grow again.

      That is our war. To help the Scottish people re energise and grow again. We can win it.

    85. sinky says:

      In which other country would the national broadcaster not have a programme debate on powers being removed from its Parliament. Not on Call Kaye and of course no TV Scottish politics in evening schedules.
      With Tory n unionist press also ignoring power grab we need to get leaflets out and start knocking on doors.

    86. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The twitter comments of prominent Labour and Lib Dem Scots are chock full of logic-defying rationalisations and flimsy excuses about the abstentions.

      Labour’s Duncan Hotherstall says it’s about the SNP being hypocritical over the devo power grab because they don’t want devolution, they want indy. Everything, absolutely everything is the SNP’s fault on planet Hotherstall.

      Labour MP Danielle Rowley frantically tweets Leask style to say voting against would have made it worse. People just don’t understand how the legislative process works. Desperate Dani!

      Lib Dem MP Jo Swinson though takes the prize. She says that she had to abstain because to vote against would have been to vote against what the Welsh Parliament wanted. Don’t know what the Welsh for bullshit is.

    87. Nana says:

      There will be an emergency “Hands off our parliament” protest tomorrow at 11am (for FMQs) in protest of Westminster’s ludicrous powergrab last night
      https://twitter.com/dtaylor5633/status/1006809656818327553

      Idiot spouts pish
      https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1006795677580525568

      This is the email address for the mp who shouted ‘suicide’ if you want to drop him a line ianliddellgrainger [at] hotmail [dot] co [dot] uk
      https://twitter.com/johnhbaillie/status/1006809383001616385

    88. Robert Louis says:

      Ken500,

      I get the point you make about voting SNP, but it is now generally accepted that the SNP did not put a good case forward at the last election, for one reason or another, and yes, nobody expected an election, so I do understand.

      The point is this, the media by and large ignore anything the SNP say, but if they make independence first and foremost, suddenly it will become the most talked about story in any election.

      To win well, the SNP need to fight to get coverage of their views. I do also think the FM was wrong to even indulge many of the questions where she was interviewed about SNP performance with purely devolved matters. She needs to be much, much, much more assertive. Sorry some people don’t like to hear such things, but I think it is true.

      This is not about knocking the SNP, it is about realising that Westminster no longer plays by even the remotest scintilla of democratic norms or so-called ‘rules’, so why oh why do the SNP persist in not calling that out. In interviews, it needs to be stated over and over again. Every chance, tell the Scots what the media won’t- that scots may have fracking companies drilling under their house no matter what the Scots Government says, that Scotch whisky rights will be sold to the highest bidder, and so on. They need to hammer that message home at each and every single chance. They need pre-prepared sounbites. That is what their opponents do, time they did it as well.

      I was at the hydro for Nicola’s do, and enjoyed it, I want her to do well, but time after time, the SNP put media lightweights up for interviews – opportunity wasted. It seems to work like this. ‘somebody calls SNP HQ and they then say, oh we have an interview slot tonight on newsnight, who fancies doing it, hands up, anybody?? And a new MSP with no media training at all, or any kind of breifing volunteers. They also fail to call out media bias on each and every occasion, so it is left to people on twitter or here, to point it out instead.

      The first thing Keith Brown could do, is really sharpen up how they handle the media. Really, really sharpen it.

      There is nothing wrong with speaking up about things that matter. Of course it’s not all the SNP’s fault. Of course people didn’t vote last year, but they need to think WHY?

      Here’s an example, every single SNP question this week at FMQ’s should be on this topic (power grab) and the reality of what it means for Scots. Their are ways of doing this, different sectors of the economy, fracking, food sector etc… EVERY SINGLE ONE.

    89. Clydebuilt says:

      Scots aren’t being told why the power grab matters. They need to be informed about what difference these powers have made!

      Here’s a clear powerful example ( there will be many more)

      The Scottish beef herd have been declared BSE free at least THREE years ahead of England’s due to the actions of the Scottish Government.

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/03/02/snp-cabinet-secretary-applauded-for-his-help-as-scotlands-bse-risk-now-likely-to-be-graded-negligible-at-least-three-years-before-england-and-wales/

    90. frogesque says:

      I have an operation scheduled for Friday 22nd. on an awkward and rather wayward wisdom tooth. Not a tooth fairy job but a nasty intervention not without some risk.

      I shall be at Banockburn on Sat 23rd. if it bloody well kills me.

      Liddle- Grainger may yet get his wish

    91. Clydebuilt says:

      Robert Louis at 9.17 . . . . Says it for me

      Re FMQ’s . . . The SNP and YES movement should be encouraging / campaigning to get Scots listenning to FMQ’s . . . It’s the only time Sturgeon gets to make her point without interruption.
      Every week she exposes Unionist lies for what they are .

    92. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Ian Liddell Grainger is the great great great grandson of Queen Victoria.

      We are not amused.

    93. Les Wilson says:

      Blackford said yesterday that David Liddington must be stupid, the devolved powers that Scotland should have, are written down.
      Meaning of course he was well aware of what was happening.

      No, he is not stupid, he knew exactly what he was doing. What he is without doubt is a two faced manipulator, who had no intention of letting Scotland’s voice to be heard. Time we called them what they are. Get angry people we need fire in our belly, or we are done for.

    94. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Mundell says that if Scotland’s MPs had been given 100 hours to debate it would have made no difference at all to the Withdrawal Bill.

      There is irrevocable proof that the Tories intend to run Scotland without even a modicum of democracy.

      People who vote No in 2014 weren’t voting to keep Scotland in the union. They were voting to start the process of ending Scottish democracy.

    95. Derick fae Yell says:

      Having slept on it: yesterday was a good day for the cause of Scottish Normality (aka Independence).

      When we come to the referendum, in this parliamentary session or the next. Or when we come to a Westminster election that serves as a proxy referendum.

      The response to ‘Vows’ or ‘Lead the UK, don’t leave it’ or ‘Vote no to strengthen Devolution’ (remember 25% of the 2014 No vote, gave exactly that reason)

      will be laughter.

      Calls for WM MPs to withdraw are premature. We need them there for the day when a S30 is finally refused, on the basis that only Westminster is sovereign. Because the immediate implication of that UK Government position is that only a majority of Scottish Westminster MPs is a mandate for at the very least a referendum (in their name) and if necessary a direct move to Independence

      Ken is right. We need more MPs, not MPs who have removed themselves. And the only people who can do that are the voters

    96. Schrodingers cat says:

      Derek is right about still needing SNP most for s30

      But we are getting very close nowindow

      Unionist have used up all of their argu ments

    97. Dr Jim says:

      Statement by the First Minister before FMQs on Thursday

      Wee birdy

    98. Ken500 says:

      FFS. The people who do the most complaing and criticise the SNP, or do not vote. They are the problem. They just do not get it. They constantly criticise the SNP, do not vote or vote Unionist. Then suggest calling UDI. 1/2Million people did not vote a year ago. They caused this to happen. The SNP can only operate with the support they get, obviously. There would have been no Brexit. No attempt to lose devolved powers. Another IndyRef could have been called but people did not vote SNP. Or vote. Yet these people are still complaining. Cutting off their nose to spite their face. On and on they go. They just had to put a cross on a ballot?

      The SNP put forward the exact position every election. They said what would happen many times. Time after time after time. For years and years. It turns out exactly as they said. The Brexit shambles etc. Yet some people still do not acknowledge it.

      Unionists do not agree to interviews unless they can vet questions. Maybe they should not be interviewed at all. Davidson does not answer certain topics. Biased interviews. Or just lies. PM’s QT is just an insult.

      The SNP governance is the best Scotland has ever had. Still people do not support it. Vote Tory or unionist. Or do not vote. Often they are the ones complaining the most.

      Either use their vote or wreck it.

      People should not buy the Daily Record etc. To say people are not aware is not conclusive when the SNP still has a major majority. In an electoral system changed to favour unionists. Maybe this will be a wake up call to the rest. How much longer they want to put up with it?

      The Tories are going to fall shortly. The Brexit shambles will ensure it. Labour/LibDem are useless. The UK economy is tanking. The fight for Independence just goes on. This could be the tipping point to become stronger. The SNP can only work with the support they are given.

      BSE came from Alabama and cost £Billions. So much for US trade deals. Increased tariffs.

    99. Nana says:

      Surge in membership ongoing, if you haven’t already joined perhaps now is the time

      https://www.snp.org/joinus

    100. Cubby says:

      Frogesque 9.21am

      Good on you.

      I have a bloody sore left foot but I plan to do the march again. If you are not going to Bannockburn then you really need to tell yourself it is a very very good reason. The Tories are trying to put into reverse all the gains we have made over decades. Are we going to let them walk all over us?

    101. Ken500 says:

      Write to Westminster. An avalanche would help. People march for hours. Use a pen and paper or e-Mail. Let them know. Even anonymous. Better still get out and vote. Join the SNP and commit. Do not be disenfranchised.

    102. HandandShrimp says:

      Heard Mundell the Inconsequential blaming Labour for there only being 15 minutes to debate devolution. However, it is patently obvious that if there had been an hour Lidington would have talked for an hour and then sat down with an even bigger supercilious smirk on his face.

      As for Grainger, who has ever heard of the idiot before his comment and are we likely to hear of him again? Suicide is official Tory policy, it is what they want the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged and the politically inconvenient to do. However, articulating it like that is an embarrassment to May who affects to be a Christian.

    103. Footsoldier says:

      Westminster snub to Holyrood merits a single line of 4 words on the main BBC UK political section “Scottish devolution changes urged”.

    104. Johnny says:

      Ken, Derick etc

      I agree that Yessers should be voting SNP and do so myself.

      However, we do NOT need to win any more elections for an indyref to be held. And we should NOT be waiting until the next parliamentary session or anything like it.

      There is a triple lock mandate for this; the SNP won in Scotland last year. Only the mathematically challenged or liars argue otherwise. Some voters stayed at home, sure, and there is some indication that this might be because they SNP campaign wasn’t strong enough but it also might be the case that many SNP voters thought the party already had as many bloody mandates for indyref 2 as it needed.

    105. Johnny says:

      Also it makes no sense to argue with certainty that, if the 500k had come out to vote last year, there would have been ‘no Brexit’.

      When we had 56 MPs, a Brexit referendum and vote happened regardless BECAUSE ENGLISH MPs OUTNUMBER US IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, NO MATTER HOW MANY SNP MPs WE VOTE IN. I thought that was pretty well understood, and was one of the main arguments for independence.

    106. Luigi says:

      The ground is crumbling beneath them, the tories are surging ahead with BREXIT, and yet Labour are persisting with attacking the SNP.

      Nothing like priorities, eh?

      So it’s the precious union or nothing? What a sorry bunch of British Nationalists the Labour party has become.

    107. Ken500 says:

      Let David Lidington know your views. Don’t leave Ian Blackford to do it. Give some support. Call out not nice but dim Tories. May or Mundell. Drop them a line or e-mail. When they try to drop Scotland in it. Davidson’s must be overflowing. The twists, turns and lies.

    108. Luigi says:

      We probably now have enough ridiculous excuses for abstaining last night to make a hilarious top ten list.

      Jo Swinson’s effort was certainly a whopper. 🙂

    109. Ken500 says:

      The numbers in Westminster vote. With 52+ SNP MP’s (Sin Fein). The Tories could have been outvoted 12 Sept 2017 EVEL. Vote or yesterday. If Labour kept abstaining or voted against them.

      The Tories lost votes a year ago. 12 of a majority.

    110. Phronesis says:

      It is helpful to clarify Scotland’s status within the mal-united kingdom for those who believe that there might be a sliver of good intent from WM towards Scotland. Scotland, the country, is moving politically and ideologically in the opposite direction of the WM cabal- the con/lab/libdem combo doesn’t understand that participatory and deliberate democracy are 2 sides of the same coin.

      Scotland’s elected representatives should think very carefully about how they frame their response to the power grab by WM – a shameful display, a ‘suicidal’ act which will cause the constitutional crisis that WM seeks.
      Scotland is expressing itself very differently by not using the politics of fear. The Brexit calamity is a very good example of Scotland’s different viewpoint from a national perspective .The economic harms and threat to population well-being have become human rights issues- and Scotland, the country, did not sign up for those adverse outcomes.

      ‘In most cases, this politics of fear is not supported by the facts. Take Sweden as an example. The country took in an unprecedented number of refugees in 2015 – 163,000. To give an idea of what this means, if the UK had taken an equivalent share based on its population, it would have been around 950,000 (the UK took in 37.000). However, since then the Swedish economy has grown three times faster than the other Nordic countries and twice the EU average… Now as then, politics by fear does not build on facts or rational argumentation… there is a lot to lose if and when those political forces who want to safeguard a more equitable, more democratic and more equal society based on solidarity march to the tune of the politics of fear. Historically, fear has proved to be the chief weapon of political reactionaries. Where is there a policy based on hope?’

      http://www.socialeurope.eu/politics-of-fear-versus-politics-of-hope

      ‘More recently, the anti-immigrant story has flared into life again. All the Powellite language was used to denounce incomers from Europe culminating in the notorious Leave poster showing Britain invaded by a snaking queue of Levantine refugee-immigrants…Now the right-wing Policy Exchange think-tank has come up with some deeply unpleasant suggestions that Europeans doing the low-pay, anti-social work the true born Brit shuns should be branded with biometric identification, finger-printed, and not allowed to have the same income as fellow British workers doing the same job, then booted out after two years… Gordon Brown, under the baleful influence of Treasury neo-liberal ideologues, instructed Labour MEPs and party representatives drawing up European election manifestos to oppose core social justice measures…Both Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem ministers share the responsibility for the abolition of effective craft apprenticeship training. This led to the arrival of Irish and continental Europeans who were properly trained as electricians, plumbers, carpenters– trades Britain stopped training for in the Thatcher years’

      http://www.socialeurope.eu/reforming-freedom-of-movement-to-support-british-workers-and-reduce-immigration

      ‘Currently, financial firms based in Britain have “passports” allowing them to do business in any of the other EU countries on the same terms as firms based in any of those countries…
      The transition to a post-Brexit world also needs to be carefully managed to minimize disruption in market services and activities, and maintain a sound and effective supervision of financial activities. Because operating costs may increase during the transition as banks may have to duplicate operations and relocate staff, many banks have begun to draw contingency plans and explore various relocation alternatives. Some institutions may even opt to exit or scale back specific business lines’

      blogs.imf.org/2017/05/29/chart-of-the-week-brexit-and-the-city/

      ‘at home, momentum is set to remain weak. Households remain under pressure from lacklustre wage growth, while businesses are grappling with skill shortages. In some sectors, particularly retail, trading environments remain tough…While many companies are turning their attention to AI, automation and streamlining operations to stay competitive, there is only so much that they can do when Brexit uncertainty continues to loom large’

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/dynamism-needed-on-domestic-front-to-help-power-uk-economy/

      ‘Vacancies are at a record high and access to skills and labour is a huge concern for businesses. Government could help immediately by removing all shortage occupations from the tier 2 visa cap so employers – including the NHS – can access the skills they need’

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/stubbornly-slow-pay-growth-means-living-standards-remain-under-pressure/

    111. Tinto Chiel says:

      Having calmed down a bit after the contemptuous treatment of Scotland yesterday, I knew like everyone here this was bound to happen and it makes any Britnat vows or promises in the next referendum non-starters. The SNP knew it was coming too and we will soon see what card it plays next.

      Sadly, I don’t know how many people not on here or the likes of WGD will be aware of what happened in parliament yesterday or why it is important. I didn’t even look at the tabloid front pages this morning for obvious reasons but, flicking between Pravdasound4 and Radio Shortbread I would have been none the wiser.

      I heard a Green ranting about SNP inaction over diesel emissions, and a brief recording of the SNP WM leader complaining about lack of time to debate the position of the devolved parliaments. Since the latter was given equal prominence with a hackneyed voxpop piece about “Who will you be supporting in the World Cup?”, I have little confidence the issue was dealt with as the contemptuous and undemocratic power-grab that it was.

      R4 was a Scottish void but at least I got a laugh when some dweeb was asking who was going to protect the English football fans from Russian hooligans. Irony bypass/Marseilles amnesia or what?

      All the Sma’ Folk like us can do is try to talk to people we encounter everyday and, if we are fit and free, turn up at Stirling a week on Saturday in unprecedented numbers.

      Poker games are bad for the nerves but we have to try to keep the heid.

    112. Craig P says:

      So – where next do you reckon? This is just a first and to be honest, at this point not that big a step. But I expect there to be more.

      Now I don’t think Westminster will be daft enough to take a bold step like suspending Holyrood. Scottish political emasculation will come gradually.

      What is the next logical step in boiling the frog? Putting caveats on what the Scottish budget can be spent on? Reducing the budget? Passing laws requiring the union flag to be flown every day from all public buildings? What’s your prediction?

    113. HandandShrimp says:

      I suppose it is an ill wind that blows no good. The archaic farce that passes itself as democracy in Westminster has certainly boosted applications to join the SNP. Let us hope that the realisation that Westminster cannot be trusted re-fires the passion of the 50% that voted SNP in 2015 and that we kick on from there.

    114. Juan says:

      Mayhem still has to square the impossible circle of the No border in NI. She managed to kick the can down the road to next week. Soon she’ll have to shaft either Remainers, she bought off last night or the DUP who prop up her regime.

    115. Dr Jim says:

      SKY news openly discussing prominant figures who speak out against Brexit as to whether they’re English or not

      One prominant remain figure described himself as a proud British Nationalist

      So the only good Nationalist is a British Nationalist the rest of us are ..well?

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For those who use Twitter, #DissolveTheUnion has been trending this morning, please help keep it up there, RT often and contact your MP using same.

      Alex Neil @afneil has also been chipping in his tuppenceworth, stating that ‘no-one outside the WM bubble’ knows what’s going on. You might like to disabuse him of that notion whilst simultaneously telling him to fuck off.

    117. Fred says:

      Waiting with bated breath on Broon’s pronouncement from North Queensferry on the Vow & its back story.

    118. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Neil a man suffering from shortbread Tory tendency a disease which begins in the sporran and leads to crotch rot spreading over years to the brain creating the original Scottish Tory which is a different thing from even Ruth Davidsons Tory for a day when it suits me syndrome

      I think Alex has always been a believer in Scotchness

    119. Ken500 says:

      Trades etc are still UK based. Without additional training, tradesmen have to comply with each country’s qualification. UK tradesmen have to be UK qualified. The same in other professions. Professions guard their qualifications and standards. Religiously. Scottish standards. Legal, educational and otherwise. Set by Holyrood etc. Scotland has a separate legal, education system. Professional status. It is not EU wide. Each country has different qualifications. They can comply with additional training. Polish plumbers etc can only work with certified UK legally. Same in other countries.

      EU, US, worldwide work to different metric systems. Some comply or deviant. Patents and copywrite Laws ensure monopoly. Then multinationals can charge what they like. No pay tax worldwide. The EU wants to stop tax evasion. The reason for Brexit? Tariffs just put up prices. The US, China, India etc are protectionist. Large markets. EU have more clout to counter. 400Million people. Larger countries can pick and choose. Try to influence markets.

    120. Bobp says:

      Doug bryce 10.39pm. Doug,some folks in Scotland probably think the single market is barraland. We need a punchier line . Do you want to save our SNHS, Then vote SNP and for independence. Or tory london rule forever.

    121. Robert Louis says:

      Please, if you can, do not just e-mail MP’s, actually write a physical letter. They do not get many, and they are a hassle for them. It makes them take notice, it really, really does. E-mails do not.

      When sending a physical letter do not give an e-mail address, so this forces them to have a letter printed up and posted to you.

      A physical letter makes ten times more impact. Polite, non abusive and to the point.

      You may also care to write to the speaker of the House of commons, to make it clear his parliament is now a charade of any sense of democracy – more akin to a third world conspiracy. These things do count, especially physical letters and make sure you make it clear you expect a reply.

    122. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: Nicola’s apparent slowness in announcing the date for indyref2.

      Perchance a read of this will make all clear.

      https://twitter.com/MichelleGr4h4m/status/1006790183059148800

    123. orri says:

      Holyrood’s immediate response must be to table an emergency motion under its currently devolved powers to strike down the parts of the Bill just passed that impinge on devolved matters.

      The Presiding Officer can get to fuck if he pulls the not under competence of Holyrood shite. Until the bill is actually signed it isn’t yet law.

      Time to explain why things like Henry the 8th even have a place in a democracy. It’s because anything done can be undone.

      Also remember, the Queen has a Royal Prerogative to withhold Royal Assent. The First Minister can advise when that might be used. That advice isn’t restricted simply to acts of Holyrood. If Labour, as the parents of devolution, intended it to be limited to only Scotland then they should have made it explicit.

      Obviously such an attempt might go down the same Supreme Court path in order to pass Westminster’s bolox before it can be stopped.

      The question is as Holyrood isn’t actually passing new legislation but pushing the abort button on something that hasn’t come into force yet does that mean that Westminster’s power grab simply doesn’t take place?

      Meanwhile sauce for the goose would entail Holyrood taking Westminster to court in order to delay the Withdrawal Bill long enough for the anulment to take effect.

    124. HandandShrimp says:

      Had a look at the dissolve the union Twitter thread. It is a long one isn’t it?

      🙂

    125. Dan Huil says:

      Holyrood already has the mandates for indyref2. We do not need to vote again for another mandate. We must let our pro-indy representatives know we need to see and hear them robustly defend Scotland’s rights. So robustly that the britnat media can’t ignore us in the same way Westminster ignores us. It’s time to stop playing by the British establishment’s rules.

      Aye we can do our bit by writing and emailing, but probably most importantly, by turning out for the rallies this summer.

    126. Athanasius says:

      I’m Irish. We’ve seen stuff like this happen before. It never works. Once the SNP took office in 2007 a critical mass was hit. The notion of an independent Scotland stopped being a pipe dream on a shortbread tin and became a realizable goal. People got behind it. They took it seriously and the ground shifted. Nobody’s going backward now. The English ALWAYS fuck up stuff like this, and this time is no exception. People won’t put up with it. I’m telling you, it can’t be stopped anymore. Westminster may try, but they won’t succeed because there’s enough Scots whose first and only loyalty is to Scotland, not this ridiculous chimera, “The UK”.

    127. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Brinadoonthetoon @ 11am

      That link is a cracker and a keeper – I have copied the tweet for future reference.

      I have long felt, the Tories treating the Act of Union as: “England swallowing-up Scotland,” would come back and bite their fat erses some day. That day could be soon.

    128. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Andrew Neil folks. Not Alex Neil.

    129. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 11.00

      Read this earlier I think one of Nanas links, very interesting, brought the blood presure right down to just under emergency levels.

    130. Macart says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Pretty much how I understand it and I’ve reposted the link elsewhere. Very much worth reading.

    131. Robert Louis says:

      OK, so I have calmed down now. For all its faults, if you are angry as hell about this (and you should be), then

      1. Join the SNP. http://www.snp.org/joinus

      Labour offer Scotland nothing and betrayed Scots and Donald Dewar’s devolution legacy last night.

      2. Get to the marches.

      The next one is in stirling/bannockburn on the 23rd. Let’s make it the biggest by far march ever seen in Stirling, since King Robert marched his troops from the castle to teach the INVADING English army (and their cowardly English king – who ‘ran away’ (literally)) a serious painful lesson in Scottish manners.

      Nemo me impune lacessit (as is inscribed above the entrance to Edinburgh castle, above the statues of King Robert and Sir William Wallace).

      Let’s do it. And write physical letters, polite and to the point, if you can to Scottish MP’s and London Tories who were involved in the disgrace last night, and the speaker, John Bercow.

    132. Luigi says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:

      13 June, 2018 at 11:00 am

      RE: Nicola’s apparent slowness in announcing the date for indyref2.

      Perchance a read of this will make all clear.

      https://twitter.com/MichelleGr4h4m/status/1006790183059148800

      Thanks Brian,

      Great stuff and a very helpful link. I do understand it is a matter of timing, and I trust Nicola to pull the trigger when she sees the white of their eyes.

      The people are becoming restless, however, so some mad bold gesture or manoeuver that does not harm the legal situation (and grab some media attention) would not go amiss.

    133. Breeks says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      13 June, 2018 at 11:00 am
      RE: Nicola’s apparent slowness in announcing the date for indyref2…

      Sounds promising Brian, but I just struggle with the act of subjugation not having happened yet.

      A humble technicality can void a contract or Treaty as quickly and easily as an outrageous abuse. When it comes to asymmetry in our Union of Equals, we are hardly short of indisputable examples.

      If this is our winning strategy, are we doing it cold turkey or do we have international allies primed, watching, and ready to back us with quickfire recognition?

    134. gus1940 says:

      Let’s have giant ‘Welcome To England’s Last Colony’ signs at Gretna & Berwick.

    135. Luigi says:

      If WM ignore us or refuse to accept that we have a constitutional crisis, then let’s create an even bigger one. 🙂

    136. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Sorry, I made same mistake, writing ‘Alex’ instead of ‘Andrew’. Apologies to Alex…

      ;(

      Andrew Neil’s twitter is, right enough, @afneil

    137. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Neil Findlay of Labour is another one trying desperately to spin the falsehood that Labour’s abstaining in the Commons was a necessary move to prevent the Withdrawal Bill being even worse for Scotland.

    138. Dorothy Devine says:

      I hope all those who are prepared to sell out their country are also prepared to leave it for their popularity has just hit zero.

      I also hope that the ordinary folk realise that they will be paying for health , education ,prescriptions, parking , bus travel , WMD’s and to keep the wealthy very wealthy, using and abusing Scotland.

    139. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 10.00
      But have they used up all their arguments?
      They have just given themselves 20 odd powers to offer back to us in a new Vow!
      Given that the SNP almost certainly couldn’t survive another No vote, a Unionist Holyrood would welcome back the Powers….. no matter how much they had been watered down…
      And claim it to be delivering exactly what they promised if they won indyref 2.
      It’s a classic tactic of rulers
      Take what you can and then you have something to give at no cost to yourself

    140. Dan Huil says:

      @Athanasius 11:16am

      Thanks for that. Aye, England will fuck up over this, in the same way it’s fucked up over Ireland for centuries. What happens to the north of Ireland in the near future will be very influential to Scotland’s path to independence.

      The EU, Ireland and Scotland are hitting England from all sides. We must continue to put the boot in. No letting up.

    141. Robert Louis says:

      Lizg at 1138am,

      Those powers will never be returned. The tories know they cannot just simply close down the Scottish parliament in one go, so they are doing it bit by bit. I fully expect even more powers to be removed on a whim. This process, now started, will not stop. Let’s never forget the Tories vigorously opposed the setting up of the Scots parliament in the first place.

    142. Dr Jim says:

      Scotlands ancestors would always choose to chop them in half with a big sword rather than let them speak, and they were right, because when you let them speak they do three things, first they lie then they change the question being argued then they lie again

      In 2014 the referendum was Independence for Scotland then the UK changed the question to the European Union so Scotland voted to remain in the European Union by voting NO to independence then they had a European Union referendum which Scotland voted to stay in and when that was lost Scotland said hold on a minute this is not right but the UK said Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 because the EU wasn’t on the ballot paper (changed the question)

      Anyone getting the hang of why Scotlands ancestors preferred the big sword option now
      Anyone getting the idea why the EU are fed up to the back teeth talking to them now

      Today we don’t use the big sword option (my preferred option) but we don’t have to let them talk and we don’t have to let them set the agenda for talks (refer to the three things)

      The Tories can’t gain control of Holyrood so they want to abolish the Scottish parliament giving them direct control of Scotland from Westminster and the question we should be asking ourselves is, why do we allow Conservative MSPs to sit in Scotlands parliament when they have no respect for it, are determined to undermine its functions and return its power to the English parliament

      Surely to God this is an act of treason against Scotland, now we can’t chop them up with a big sword but we can throw them out

      If England can ignore Scotlands MPs we can ignore theirs

      First Minister it’s time to treat Englands MSPs in Scotland the same way they treat ours in England

      (Although I still like the big sword thing)

    143. Liz g says:

      Robert louis @ 11.44
      I know those power’s will never be returned Robert..
      What I’m suggesting is they will be made to ” appear ” to be returned!
      Just like the “Scottish Parliament will be made permanent” offer.
      They need to have something to offer during Indy Ref 2!
      They need to also have a talking point to divert the narratives away from the actual Union arrangements.
      They also need Something to actually campaign on/for,because they have used up and lost all their other arguments.

      So,they can now say…
      We listened Scotland,you want the Union you voted for in 2014,you didn’t like the changes we made..
      We were wrong to make those changes and will reverse them,you can still stay with us and trust your Parliament is safe!!

      If this is indeed what they are up to
      They will try to shift the debate to be about getting our power’s back and speak only of that.
      As I said,another No vote will likely mean a Unionist Holyrood and that will result in the illusion of our power’s being “won” back,and hailed as a success.
      Remember they won’t just shut down Holyrood,they will work to convince Scotland to do that themselves.
      Because then…If there was ever the suggestion that it be reopened,they will tell us…. ye tried that wance,ye didnay like it!!!!!

    144. AuldReekieJim says:

      Scottish sovereignty is at the very heart of the situation and circumstances, where we are at this moment.

      The problem, as I see it, is that not enough Scots know that sovereignty belongs to the people of Scotland. And has done since 1320.

      So, why don’t we help them with that.

      We petition everyone in Scotland, door to door. We read a statement explaining Scots sovereignty and then ask them to sign two petitions. One is to be delivered to Hollyrood, the other to 10 Downing Street.

      Everyone living in Scotland should be asked to participate, including 16 and 17 year olds.

      The idea is to reaffirm Scottish sovereignty in the minds of all of our people.

      We have, in the Yes movement, the numbers to achieve this in a relatively short time. Plus the fact that many are itching to do something.

      Just an idea, that might have seemed better in my head.

      Jim

    145. ronnie anderson says:

      Well done all the Snp MPs showing some balls .

    146. Andy-B says:

      Yeah as I see it devoloution is dead, who’s to say the Tories won’t keep rolling it back until Holyrood is just a jumped up admin dept.

      Or a impotent Stormont, time for indy I think.

    147. Stravaiger says:

      Breaking news-SNP MPs have walked out of the chamber in protest at PMQs

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Indy2 says: 12 June, 2018 at 11:56 pm:

      “Westminster really is an irrelevance to Scotland.”

      Utter pish! The problem is that Westminster is totally relevant to Scotland and that is the whole ethos behind the SNP/Sg and wider Yes movement -To make Westminster totally irrelevant to Scots and Scotland.

      ” … Whether we have 6 MPs or 56 MPs or 35 MPs,,it matters not a jot.”

      More utter pish! The alternative to having 56 SNP Members at Westminster is to have 56 unionist MPs instead and that would allow Westminster to be even more severe when dealing with Sottish matters. Not to mention that if Scotland sent more Labour abstainers and Tory MPs to swell the Westminster Tory ranks plus perhaps some LibDems who would jump into bed with anyone for a smell of power. There would be clear Tory majority to do as the liked.

      “We are there to be slapped about by our London Masters whenever the notion comes over them to slap us about.”

      Claptrap! No one slaps our SNP members about as they have learned the hard way that they won’t get away with it. You obviously know nothing of what goes on at Westminster – furthermore, the statistics of that place prove that the most hard working MPs in the house are the SNP. No need for a division bell for them because they are right there it the chamber taking part in the debates and not like the Unionists.

      Watch the day to day workings of Westminster and what you will see is an almost empty chamber and, excepting for such as PM’s Questions or Scottish Question time, the debates are poorly attended by yoon members and then the division bell sounds and they all troop out of the bars, eating places, gyms and their own offices, (and many have to be chased out to vote by the whips before attending either debates or divisions.

      Not the SNP, though – they are right there taking part. I do not expect such as you, Indy2, to appreciate just what that means so I’ll spell it out for you. It means that nothing gets pushed through parliament without going through the process of being properly debated and dealt with. Whereas without that debate a matter can be pushed through in minutes.

      The speaker asks the presenter of a motion to present the motion and after that asks if there are any opposition to it. If there isn’t then it sails through without debate.

      And when they get bored slapping us about , they just start shittin on us.
      We are a laughing stock.
      Time for some big changes needed. Something dramatic has to happen to restore the faith we have lost in our political leaders.

    149. Ian Foulds says:

      Brian Doon the Toon at 11am.

      Thank you for this brilliant article.

      More of us should take it on board, to reduce blood pressure and keep our powder dry, as when it works, it will be the biggest two finger salute ever.

    150. Les Wilson says:

      Addressing parliament after the SNP walk out, the speaker of the house says ” it feels like xmas has come early!
      We need to get out of this fast.

    151. Iain says:

      Scotland has to learn from Catalonia, but it is Time for Scotland to have a Prague Spring.

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @Johnny says: 13 June, 2018 at 10:15 am:

      “Ken, Derick etc
      I agree that Yessers should be voting SNP and do so myself.
      However, we do NOT need to win any more elections for an indyref to be held.”

      You are correct that we do not require any more voting to justify the Scottish Government calling a referendum on independence. However it is a matter of fact that for almost any other subject, other than the legal sovereignty of the people of Scotland, no one can legally prevent the SG from running a referendum.

      A referendum is exactly what the word means – the organisation running a referendum is merely referring the question to the people it concerns in order to assess their views on whatever the question happens to be. It is not illegal for anyone to do so. or example many local papers refer local questions to their readership. These are referendums but in that context are usually just called surveys.

      The difference with a Scottish government referendum and a Westminster/Kingdom of England referendum is like chalk and cheese. Allow me to explain why:-

      In Scotland the people and not neither the crown or parliament, (either Westminster or Holyrood), are legally sovereign under Scots law. Thus neither the crown nor either parliament, has the sovereign right to decide on the matter of sovereignty.

      In Scotland no one other than the legally sovereign people os Scotland can make a decision about our sovereignty.

      Which is why the Scottish government asked, and were given, a mandate to decide the people’s sovereignty. I’ll put that in a different way to help understanding the concept.

      In the three country Kingdom of England the Queen of England is legally sovereign. Under the law of England, and going back as far as the English Parliaments “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688, Their Royal Highness’ were made to delegate their God Given Sovereignty to the, then still independent, Parliament of the Kingdom of England. In other words the Queen of England is legally sovereign but has legally delegated the Parliament of England to exercise the Royal Sovereignty. Now here is the important bit The Parliament of the Kingdom of England legally dissolved itself in April 1707 and there hasn’t been an elected as such Parliament of England ever since.

      So just where does Westminster’s claims of being sovereign come from? What began on 1 May 1707 was NOT the parliament of the Kingdom of England it was the newly formed Parliament of the two partner United Kingdom. In effect the voters in England, Wales and N.I. are choosing an MP to exercise the sovereignty of the Queen of England and the official name wrongly given to Westminster is, “Her Majesty’s Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & N.I.”. There is no Parliament of England.

      In Scotland the people elect MPs to Westminster and delegate them to exercise the people of Scotland’s legal sovereignty and Her Majesty is only Queen of Scots and the Protector of the people’s sovereignty.

      That is why the Scottish MPs at Westminster have the legal right to decide upon the people of Scotland’s sovereignty – it is because we gave them our mandate to do so. It is also why Nicola Sturgeon required our mandate to represent our legal sovereignty – because she asked, (in the manifesto), and we voted for that manifesto.

      Yes it is very hard to explain but, after grasping the context. it is easy to understand

      The entire subject of Scottish Independence rests upon who is legally sovereign.

      Under English law the Queen of England is legally sovereign in only the Kingdom of England, but must legally delegate her sovereignty to an elected Parliament of the Kingdom of England but no such Parliament of the Kingdom of England has been elected since the last day of April 1707. There is no elected as such Parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      Under Scots law the people are legally sovereign and the people elected the MPs at Westminster, the MEPs at Brussels and the MEPs at Holyrood and we legally delegated them to use our legal sovereignty.

      Sooner or later that is going to require sorting out in the courts – but which courts are they going to be?

      The Scottish courts have no jurisdiction in the Kingdom of England and the English courts no jurisdiction in Kingdom of Scotland. The Supreme Court is a concept of Westminster and is thus illegal and obviously biased.

      The International Court of Justice (abbreviated ICJ; commonly referred to as the World Court) is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations (UN). It settles legal disputes between member states and gives advisory opinions to authorized UN organs and specialized agencies. It comprises a panel of 15 judges elected by the General Assembly and Security Council for nine-year terms. It is seated in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands.

    153. gus1940 says:

      Les Wilson @1.17

      If that remark referred to the SNP walkout surely Bercow should be censored.The Speaker is supposed to be politically neutral in which case if the answer is yes he must resign.

    154. Terence callachan says:

      Sorry people but you still don’t get it
      Scotland to us Scottish people is our country
      To English people Scotland is part of Great Britain they believe Scotland has been conquered
      is owned by England ,they have colonised their outpost just to ensure that we never reverse this.
      Across Scotland over many years there has been systematic appointment of English people in positions of power who in turn employed more English people in prime jobs you will find if you look properly that Scotlands poor ,Scotlands unemployed is made up wholly of Scottish people.
      18% of the people living in Scotland are English people yes that’s right 18 out of every 100 people in Scotland are English people, that’s a lot of votes .
      Personally I think England is a great country with a great history but like all successful countries it has a hard dark side, not the people but the the government.
      The English government or as some like to call it the British government intends to keep control of Scotland and will do anything to do so, what happened in Catalonia could very easily happen here and the sooner you wake up to that fact the more clearly you will be able to asses the crisis before us.
      A Scottish independence referendum will take place soon
      England is the country that Scotland wants to break free from
      Not Great Britain or United Kingdom but England yes England and if we are to uphold democracy we should be making sure and saying loud and clear that English people will be excluded from voting on Scottish independence it’s just not democratic to allow English people to vote for England to continue controlling Scotland it doesn’t matter matter where they live, I don’t care if it’s English people living in Scotland or England or anywhere else on the planet they are the country that control Scotland the country we want to break free from so they should not have a vote on whether or not their control of us continues.
      It baffles me that so may of you are alarmed that in Westminster English MP,s vote on Scotlands affairs and vote against the wishes of the fifty or so Scottish MP,s and it baffles me when you say that the result is not fair it’s the English parliament for heavens sake what do you expect ?
      It is more baffling that you are happy to allow English people to vote down Scottish independence
      from within Scotland !! let alone from the English parliament that is Westminster.
      Surely you see now that Westminster is Englands parliament ,Great Britain and UK are England by another name.
      If English people had been barred from voting on Scottish independence Scotland would now be independent.
      The longer you allow this to continue the more difficult it will get because England populates Scotland with more and more of its people each year
      Wake up
      English people care about England first
      Sure there are a few English people who moved here to be with Scottish partners and they may say they feel like a Scot but they are first and foremost English and that will not change unless of course they change their nationality once Scotland is independent
      Don’t be fooled by them
      I have lived in many countries and I can assure you that being on friendly terms with the locals is paramount and its useful to show support but no matter where people go to live across the world they always retain their nationality with pride.English people more so than most I might add ,you just have to look at Spain France etc etc and you will see how little England spreads and Tries to take over, England and English people are not shrinking violets,all this English Scots nonsense is a trick there is no such thing as an English Scot you are one or the other .
      You will not find Scottish Englishmen or Scottish Englishwomen living in England it’s a trick that has successfully taken Scottish people off track .
      Wake up

    155. Terence callachan says:

      18% of the people living in Scotland are English people
      That’s right 18 out of every 100 people living in Scotland are English
      England controls Scotland of that there is no doubt
      It is England that Scotland wants independence from
      English people should in no circumstances whatsoever be allowed to vote on Scottish independence
      Allowing English English people to vote for England ,their own country ,to continue controlling Scotland is undemocratic
      It doesn’t matter where they live ,if they are English they should not be allowed to vote on Scottish independence.
      If English people had not been allowed to vote in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum the YES side would have won by a large margin and that is because a third yes a third of the NO vote consists of English people.
      I’ve seen a few English people say they have Scottish partners and consider themselves part Scottish they call themselves English Scots but it’s a trick there is no such this as an English Scot same as there is no such thing as a Scottish Englishman or Scottish Englishwoman you are one or the other .
      It’s time for Scotland to ignore Westminster and do what England did when they decided to change the rules and have English votes for English questions.
      Now is the time time for Scottish votes for Scottish questions
      Yes there are EU citizens that have to be considered but the crucial difference is that their countries do not control Scotland, England does.
      The Scottish parliament needs to make a stand and do this
      And to all those English people living in Scotland who will immediately cry “you hate me because I’m English ”
      Let me just say, I don’t, I like England and English people very much just as I like people from anywhere else in the world.
      England is a great country with a a great history and English people love their country more than anywhere else they show that day in day out whether here or overseas.
      I want you to know Scottish people love their country too and we do intend to stop you keeping control of our country ,you know you should not be getting to vote in a Scottish independence referendum but I’m sure you are extremely happy that you have been able to but it has to stop.
      England won’t be in any danger when Scotland is independent ,if you want to continue living in Scotland you can but it will be Scotland that runs Scotlands affairs and not England.

    156. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Terence callachan @ 15:23, 16:01,

      Oh dear, his usual “blame someone else” message. Repeated for good measure, like a stuck record.

      Scotland would be free now from all the ordure it has to currently endure, if only enough native-born Scots had had the good sense to believe in themselves and not in the fairy-tales they were spun by other Scots with their hands up to their elbows in the trough.

      That’s the truth of it. It’s a narrow-minded extreme minority like you who don’t get it.



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