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James Kelly is a liar

Posted on May 17, 2016 by

Last night the Labour MSP James Kelly – who was resoundingly rejected by voters in Rutherglen earlier this month but was forced on the Scottish Parliament anyway by his party – appeared on Scotland Tonight to debate the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act. You can see the full segment from 15m 35s here.

Mr Kelly told a number of quite serious lies. We’ve edited them together.

Let’s examine them in turn.

“The only opinion poll that’s been conducted is a flawed one”

This is a lie. There has NOT only been one poll conducted on OBFA. There have been numerous polls on the subject, including two in the last year – one by YouGov and one by Panelbase, both highly-respected professional polling organisations.

“The way that the questions were constructed – it wasn’t a properly set up poll with correct methodology that opinion poll firms would normally use, it’s been well discredited.”

This is a lie. Of course, we can’t be sure which of the two polls Mr Kelly is referring to there, as he lied about how many polls there were, but both were conducted with standard samples (approximately 1000 people) of the Scottish population, properly weighted and balanced to be demographically representative.

We’re able to make that assertion with 100% confidence about the Panelbase poll in particular, because we were the people who commissioned it. It used the exact same methodology and set-up of every other poll the company’s run.

These were the two exact questions asked (Panelbase and YouGov in that order):



Nothing is remotely wrong with the “construction” of either one.

“Of the cases that come to court, over half of them fail. So even if you accepted the basic premise of the Act, as a law it’s not working.”

This is a lie. Of OBFA cases brought to court, 69% (242 out of 352) have resulted in convictions and just 31% have failed. Last time we checked, 31% was less than half by a quite significant distance. There hasn’t been a single year in which “over half” of OBFA cases brought to court have failed.


(It’s a bewildering argument anyway. The current conviction rate for rape is only 46% – in itself a substantial and welcome increase over recent years – but we presume James Kelly doesn’t want rape legalised on the grounds that most prosecutions fail.)

Every substantive claim Mr Kelly made on TV last night was empirically, categorically and demonstrably factually wrong, and he must know they were wrong, unless he’s – even by Scottish Labour’s abysmally low standards – spectacularly incompetent.

Kelly is a disgrace to Holyrood – a stumbling monotone oaf who voters have tried to expel from their Parliament, only to be foiled by a party so utterly bereft of talent that it has nobody better to offer Scotland than a useless liar who can’t even count to two.

A media desperate to see the OBFA repealed so that it can get back to telling juicy stories of sectarian violence and hatred that sell lots of newspapers won’t expose his lies, so we have to do it instead. It’s a task we’re happy to take on.

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328 to “James Kelly is a liar”

  1. Doug Daniel says:

    “he must know they were wrong, unless he’s – even by Scottish Labour’s abysmally low standards – quite spectacularly incompetent.”

    In James Kelly’s defence, the latter is certainly true.

  2. MR J says:

    Shock as a Labour human tells a fat load of porkies.

    That said, I’m not sure how I feel about the OBFA. My instinct always points toward more freedom, less government but it’s impossible to sensibly deny that sectarian violence is an issue in Scottish football.

    Maybe laws that give private organisations greater powers in policing behaviour on their grounds?

    I’m one of those “Sunlight is the best disinfectant” cunts.

  3. mr thms says:

    Kaye Adams will be debating this subject just after the 9 o’clock news on Radio Scotland..

    Should be interesting

  4. Cath says:

    ““The way that the questions were constructed – it wasn’t a properly set up poll”

    It wasn’t phrased: ‘the SNP are really bad and have made a really bad law that means anyone can go to prison just for singing songs. Do you agree that the law against singing songs is really bad?” as Labour and their media pals would have phrased it.

  5. winifred mccartney says:

    This bill should be kept if only to show sectarianism will not be tolerated – amendments can be added or changes made but the central voice of the legislation should stay.

    Can I suggest another bill should be introduced for offensive behaviour in the Scottish Parliament and Mr K could be the first to be charged and then Mr F so that they can stop treating the parliament with contempt while still desperate to stay there even when soundly rejected by their constituents.

  6. R-type Grunt says:

    Something has to be done about a system that allows these numpties to get jobs after they have so spectacularly failed the interview process.

    As mentioned above, Kaye(E) Adams is talking about this now. What odds on a caller saying “I voted SNP but..”?

  7. I remember Mr Kelly getting the bum’s rush from Derry Traynor’s Bar in the Gorbals. He was jeered by Irish Republicans as a Catholic Unionist Labourite when Labour Invaded Ireland,1969, and broke the European record on Human Rights abuses.

  8. Andrew McLean says:

    In the spirit of Glasgow’s fantastic new Gurdwara; James Kelly reminds me of Krsna geting above his station, and I wish him all the blessings that Sisupala would bestow on him.

    Could we not have a offensive MSP Act, to discourage parties subjecting Scotland with cretin’s.

  9. Another Union Dividend says:

    OBFA was only brought in as the SFA in particular did nothing to tackle sectarianism which in the past has benefited the Old Firm clubs commercially.

    At risk of lighting the blue touch paper. Good article in The National on fact that this year’s cup finalists have only won the trophy once between them.

    It was Hibernians, not Hibernian, who won cup in 1887 then went burst in 1891 and The Rangers have only been in existence for four years.

  10. Iain says:

    Good fisking.

    I’m coming to the conclusion that J. Kelly may be a..what’s the word..liar.

  11. mr thms says:

    So far all but one caller getting through wants to scrap it..

  12. George says:

    Labour MSP lies – what’s the story?

  13. AhuraMazda says:

    I watched him on TV saying all that. Right little furtive and twitchy character, isn’t he. Shifty.

  14. MajorBloodnok says:

    And so it begins. The Unionist parties set the agenda and the MSM and the BBC collude in supporting it.

    Clearly avoiding total annihilation at the council elections is the main objective for Labour but the maintenance of division and promotion of violence in Scotland are their long term aims.

  15. Bob Mack says:

    The guy is a cretin. Personally I want him to stay,because you never know,they may replace him with somebody competent.

    Kelly for Slab leader should be our cry.

  16. Grendel1970 says:

    Unable to listen to the whole Call Kaye show this morning. Probably a good thing as my blood is boiling after being able to hear two callers trot out the same pish as James Kelly did. If you repeat a lie often enough, etc, etc…

  17. Grouse Beater says:

    Labour recruit only MSP candidates chronically unable to express intelligence – hence they lie as a way of seeming to have informed opinion. Memory retention is not one of the functions they are able to master.

  18. Capella says:

    I’m looking forward to Ken McIntosh, as new Presiding Officer, saying:
    “Sit down Mr Kelly”

  19. Its standard procedure for Labour politicians to distort
    facts to suit their own agenda.

    But if James Kelly is so sure that people in Scotland are so against the offensive Behaviour(football) act then why did he get overwhelmingly rejected at the ballot box in Rutherglen?

  20. Arabs for Independence says:

    Janet Findlay getting all the airtime on call ukaye.

  21. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Let’s not be unfair to Mr Kelly. Please remember, SLAB has always sent their brightest and best – “Mr Speaker” Martin, Lord George Foulkes, Jim Murphy, Margaret Curran, Ian Davidson, Anas Sarwar etc to Westminster.
    They had a name for them there – “Low-Flying Jimmies”.
    So, those would-be parliamentarians who could not soar high enough to be Low-Flying Jimmies, were sent to Holyrood.
    We have to remember, James isnae that clever, and make allowances.
    Also, he is a member of “The Celtic Family”, the self-confessed: “Greatest Fans in the World, easily the most-easily offended family in football.
    Mr Kelly almost certainly believes offensive behaviour at football is the sole remit of: “Them durty Orange Proddie bar stewards whit follows Rangers”, and has not been best-pleased to find a few of the GFITW caught by the OBFA.

  22. Greannach says:

    I wonder if Mr Kelly is a regular guest at glittering dinner parties with the likes of Lord and Lady Darling and the other splendid ladies and gentlemen of the Labour Party. Maybe he contributes his rapier-like wit to the maelstrom of conversation. Possibly his love of a bon mot keeps Lord Mandelson and Baroness Whatever in stitches.

  23. Ann jamieson says:

    Here we are with a great chance of taking democracy forward in this small but well educated country. Most of us want to get to grips with the big challenges, climate change for a start. We are by any standards a progressive country. Not everyone it seems has the future in mind.
    Unable to move beyond petty personal needs and prejudice we now have a unionist rump who are taking up Tea Party positions and tactics. Any mindless blunt instrument to hand is wielded just to try to give the SNP a bloody nose. What the Greens are doing in supporting this return to the dark ages hugely compromises their credibility. Unionist bigots are appalling enough without apparently, diltante lefties backing them up. The moves against OBFA must be confronted with the contempt and anger they deserve.

  24. JaMur says:

    Horrible vile twisted pig fuck.

    Excuse my french ladies,girls and boys.

    This crackpot talks non stop pish.

  25. Macart says:

    They really do want that vote back from the tories, don’t they? That and they so desperately want to damage the government, that ANY price is deemed acceptable.

    A prime example of party politics coming before the needs of society right there.

  26. carjamtic says:

    Red/Blue Tories need to take time out,to reflect.

    The question that gets asked of most youngsters…..’What do you want to be when you grow up’?

    I’m guessing,”A twisted liar,promoting bigotry’ would not come high up on anybody’s list…..this ‘learned’ behaviour damages people.

    Normally in life,we make allowances for people,that are just plain daft,not on this subject,this is way too important,it is impossible to find anything positive to say about any of this….

    Yoons don’t get angry,get educated,get help.

  27. Valerie says:

    Well done, Rev. Calling out cretinous liars is a public service.

    Just listened to Call Kaye. They just couldn’t find anyone who supports the Act, and we were treated to an hour of shite.

    Listening to fellow countrymen supporting freedom to practice sectarianism was thoroughly depressing.

    I doubt we will ever be free 🙁

  28. Alison says:

    I’ve stopped going to the football, partly because of this bill. I’ve been filmed and intimidated and run at from police on horses whilst walking to and from the games. Not because I’m doing anything offensive. I hate sectarianism from both sides and won’t stand for it. The police are kicking people’s doors in at 6 in the morning for singing songs. Sorry, I’m an SNP member and supporter but i don’t think criminalising 16 year olds is the way to go. Also, it probably cost us the referendum because the fans from lots of different teams despise being treated like that and they see the SNP as totalitarian. The bill is ill thought out and improperly policed.

  29. scunner says:

    Seems Farage wants a second EU Referendum in the event of a close “remain” vote.
    Well there’s a surprise, not.

    What about Settled Will etc.?

  30. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Valerie (10.04) –

    ‘I doubt we will ever be free.’

    Yeah, sometimes it feels that way.

    I’m reading ‘Inequality and the I%’ by Danny Dorling, and having to do so in small chunks because it is so utterly depressing.

    And then you tune-in to the ‘news’, only to hear all about the BBC having to hide its recipes…

  31. Glamaig says:

    Valerie, it is depressing listening to people like that, and depressing listening to the propaganda and manipulation we are subjected to day in day out, but just remember the polls showing the tiny level of opposition to the Act! Not to mention the big poll we just had with SNP getting massive support from the voters.

    Out there is a majority of sensible people, despite the numpties the BBC chooses to give airtime.

  32. DerekM says:

    We already knew he was a liar but we didnt know he was a complete idiot oh wait we knew that as well.

    I can see the picture – a shadowy blue tory creeps about whispering in Kellys ear do you know.. and like the total twat he is thinks great this is the way to get back at those SNP.

    Funny how the blue tories are still using slab idiots to do their dirty work,you would think they would have figured out by now the blue tories are shafting them once again.

  33. Iona says:

    Thing is it is a shame that the interviewer is not better informed to challenge these statements when they are made.
    Happens all the time with Cameron who uses lies and spin which is rarely challenged at the time. Like ” we are the greenest government ever” … etc. etc.

  34. Bill McLean says:

    Valerie – it’s part of their game to make you feel like this.
    Remember this shite on the BBC is part of the ploy to define the situation in Scotland as Ulsterization – a favourite tactic of the British throughout the centuries is “divide and rule”. It won’t work now. People in Scotland have finally caught on and matured politically to the tactics of our colonial masters. Those who remain mesmerized by Brittinnnnn are of a more extreme mindset and represent their attitudes by flying Union Flags or a lesser number the Irish Tricolour. Those who fly the Union Flag should know they are held in contempt by those they adore and the Irish flag flyers surely by now know how much affection the British Raj holds them in. We are well on the way to restoring our rightful independence. Don’t let anyone dishearten you. Right and justice is on our side. Consider the people you are up against – like the above named James Kelly. See them for what they are and know that we will win!

  35. Fred says:

    This was a non-issue before the election but SLAB & “Simple Simon” Kelly obviously view this debacle as a lifeline to a drowning outfit which is heading for the buffers in the Glasgow council elections.

    “Says Simple Simon to the Pieman!” who is strangely silent so far?

  36. sandycraig says:

    Obviously using the Jabba fundilymundily methodologically shit calculator.

  37. Cadogan Enright says:

    The Greens had better on back the Red and Green Tory’s on this

  38. Tinto Chiel says:

    A pathetic and predictable performance from Mogadon Man, for which he should be dragged back to Ru’glen and ritually defenestrated again. Thanks for dismantling his tosh, Rev.

    But that’s all British Labour in S______d have now, lies, lies and more lies. They’re back plotting with the Tories to send Scotland back to the Fifties. The penny hasn’t quite dropped that being their human shields and dupes hasn’t really worked for them.

    I’d forgotten the term Low-Flying Jimmies which Socrates MacSporran mentioned but it describes him to a tee, although, once he gets a personality, some intelligence and integrity, there may be some hope in the long run.

    He disgusts me.

  39. shy unionist says:

    Interesting article. Could this website provide some other examples of lying in politics? How about a list of politicians who lie to their wives?

  40. mogabee says:

    “shy unionist”?

    Sleekit, slithering Tory mair like..

  41. Takeour blueback says:

    Utterly depressing the quality of the so-called politicians we have in opposition in our Parliament. I think we can assume that those properly elected (not hanging on the shirt tails of the list) are there for a reason, i.e. Better level of politician, maybe not!

    Ruthy Moothy holding the SNP to account? FFS how? I’m sure they all get confused attempting to lace each other’s Jack-boots up!

  42. velofello says:

    Well that’s the D’hondt voting system for you. the concept and intent of D’hondt is commendable. Wise heads would commission a review of the mathematics of D’hondt following the farcical appointments served up by it in its present formulation. James Kelly being an example of its shortcomings.

  43. Dr Jim says:

    If a fox is getting in and eating your chickens you build a fence to keep it out
    If it keeps getting in, you strengthen the fence you don’t take it away

    Murphy the spy tells me his information is that the Scottish government will stand firm on the bill and force the opposition to vote it down
    showing them up for having no alternative to offer, plus making it glaringly obvious to everybody that all this is about is political posturing

    So we shall see if in the long run this becomes a big vote winner for all opposition parties in the future especially in the upcoming council elections for Labour

    Ruth Davidson may also regret her No Surrender Party choices when the Orange Lodge and Rangers Loyal Zoomers start thanking her for representing them on Twitter and Facebook

    Patrick Harvie is already slithering backwards on this with his latest pronouncements of “Eh well maybe Eh Em their are two parts to this and maybe Ah Em”
    Slither further back Patrick and be a man about this, just own up and admit you’re wrong because if you don’t, the FM and her “Lot smarter than you team” will make you pay for this later and all throughout the land shall see you’re just a little shit, drunk with a thimble full of power

    That’ll make him the Tom “Green” Thumb of Holyrood

    Oh BTW Willie Rennie is standing against Nicola Sturgeon for FM
    True I swear it!

  44. Kenny says:

    I wonder if the Celtic Society is following this development?

    Could be time to submit a complaint to the United Nations: a bitter minority funded by another country deliberately trying to cause religious warfare and sectarian violence?

    An investigation into the links with domestic violence might also be commmissioned, as I would like some definitive answer about this relationship…

  45. DerekM says:

    @ shy unionist

    I will tell you what you go read Wings from the start then come back with that statement.

    And if you bring up that personal trouble again to try and disrupt a thread by trolling off topic i will ask the Rev to ban your sorry ass.

  46. Pietro_McM says:

    The British Government in Westminster and its supporters, manipulate sectarianism for their own selfish ends. Like that’s never happened before.

    The Scottish Greens really ought to think very carefully before supporting the Yoonies on this one.

  47. Quakeawake says:

    @shy unionist
    Yeah, cos going on national TV and lying to your fellow citizens about a public policy that affects millions of people in an attempt to create a hollow perception of a “victory” with absolutely no consideration for the greater good of the country is just the same as what goes on between two people in their personal relationship.

    Fuck off, you dickwad.

  48. chris kilby says:

    This article is a disgrace. James Kelly is NOT a liar.

    He’s a bawbag.

  49. Martin Cunningham says:

    “Could this website provide some other examples of lying in politics? How about a list of politicians who lie to their wives?”

    That’s not ‘lying in politics’ is it?

  50. MajorBloodnok says:


    The difference is of course that marital infidelity may result in lies to a small group of directly involved people, but that is their own affair.

    What should be exposed is the lies of politicians intended to deceive the electorate to do or become something that is not actually in their own interest, but serves the purposes of the politician.

    Do you see the difference?

  51. chris kilby says:

    Still chasing that knuckle-dragging, Neanderthal Rangers vote, eh Jim? Jolly good. And these cynical fuckwits dare to talk about the “Ulsterisation” of Scottish politics? Then wonder why nae c*nt votes for them any more. Incredible.

  52. Tony Little says:


    Not sure there would be enough pages. Frankly to me what consenting adults do in the privacy of their rooms is of no interest to me at all. That you seem to think this is at all relevant speaks volumes.

    The puritanical attitude to sex in the UK is depressing, we have moved into the 21st century, or did that pass you by? How those on the continent laugh at the ‘British attitude’ to sex.

    On Topic: This is an issue that had been whipped up by political self-interest by opposition parties that realise they are going to have another five years of having no impact.

    We can see that propaganda remains effective. Make the lie simple and easy to understand, repeat it often, allow people to come to believe the lie is the truth. Black becomes White, Lies become ‘Truth’.

    Will enough people finally see through this and act accordingly? Too few, too long. I don’t know how to break through this mechanism of establishment control either 🙁

  53. Dr Jim says:

    @shy unionist

    OK Off the top of my head, will John Major do, or is one of yours a bad example
    I can do loads more if you like, even current ones
    But it’s a bit silly isn’t it, because we’d end up going on to footballers and you don’t want that

    Then it would be Kafflicks and Prodisints

    And back to the point of the Bill to help stop Dickheads of all persuasions stop being Dickheads and hopefully improve our country for everybody, which seems like a good thing to support, but maybe you don’t think so?

  54. Hugh Barclay says:

    Is it just me or do others think a voting system that totally rejects someone but they get elected anyway is quite frankly fucked?

  55. Andrew McLean says:

    To be fair wee boyo Kelly, up the Celts, we are the pooople, or whatever, I never understood the Scottish cringe until I heard JK in the Scottish Parliament, a more ignorant buffoon it would be hard to imagine, so all he has is politics, probably, but wait he was a chartered accountant?, and gives his occupation as a Computer programmer/analyst so he can’t be thick, well once he wasn’t ?
    Given his education what reason would he have to discredit a poll. is he a bigot? its actually a fair question, after all why would anyone oppose a law that tries to stop the 61% per cent of these charges that related to ‘threatening behaviour’ (including engaging in fighting or challenging others to fight) or the 30% per cent of these charges related to ‘hateful behaviour’?
    A lot is made of singing songs but only 13% of these charges related to ‘otherwise offensive behaviour’ (celebrating the loss of life or action in support of terrorist organisations).
    Who in their right minds would find a law that outlaws such behaviour offensive, I think it would serve as a great wakeup call to most of the electorate, if this act was repealed, even some of the main actors in this, once their smug joy abated, another dead boy in a Glasgow street, another child bottled, and then we would have the faux shock from the same politicians shouting something should be done.
    The greens, in fact any politician should take care, this will come back and bite them with the electorate.

  56. Scotcat2015 says:

    More whatabooterie from ‘shy unionist’. Not even remotely comparable. Maybe you’ld like to address the point of the article if you find it so interesting?

    Do you think this is the most important issue facing the Scottish Parliament? Do you think it’s responsible of the opposition parties to attempt repeal with no constructive alternatives put forward, simply to try and score points against the SNP? Do you think there should be a right to hate speech in circumstances where it is more likely than not to lead to violence?

    Let’s have your views on those points

  57. Andrew McLean says:

    Martin Cunningham says:10:57
    “Could this website provide some other examples of lying in politics? How about a list of politicians who lie to their wives?”

    No that won’t count, if it was as wide as that then the liar Carmichael would not still be taking from the public purse, but he is so politicians can lie all they like, it’s the law, its allowed.

    In any case I don’t care who our MSP sleep with, I don’t really care if the prime minister of the UK had sexual interference with a dead pig, nor do I care if you cheated on your wife, or girlfriend, and by the way eyeing up that girl at the checkout counts as cheating, if we are getting all moral.

    Some people find same sex relationships repulsive, do you, and claim the bible condemns them is that your position Martin?

  58. Murray A Nix says:

    James Kelly is a weapons grade A1 complete nugget. I live only 100 metres from his constituency office and in the 5 years living here NEVER ONCE saw him in Rutherglen. In the couple of weeks leading up to the election however, he was out and about every day with a big red rosette and supercilious smile trying to save his skin.

    His Facebook campaign must have also been heavily monitized to reach the electorate too as, despite not following him nor having any friends that do, every day James Kelly sponsored posts and videos were appearing on my timeline. I run a social media agency and understand the costs involved in reaching such a targeted audience. It’s a considerable amount.

    I ended up getting banned from commenting on his page when in response to some bleating nonsense from him in a video about upholding the rights of a Living Wage and how he was so important in its creation. I postured that if he had any sincerity and integrity IF he was re-elected he should pay himself the equivalent of the Living Wage and donate the rest of his Holyrood salary to a local food bank. Banned! lol

  59. Kenny says:

    Realpolitik time

    The Green membership surged after the indyref.

    If the Greens join with the unionists to defeat the SNP government on an issue which encourages sectarianism, I expect that a good majority of Green members will instantly resign/move to the SNP or another pro-indy party.

    Yes, I know it was in their manifesto. But that is NOT why people of a left wing persuasion join the Scottish Greens…

  60. Ken500 says:

    These totally corrupt Political Parties and Football Clubs are robbing their own supporters and making mugs of them. Thry are making their lives harder. For greed, unfairness and evel. They have robbed their supporters of honour, prosperity and liberty.

    Fifty years of corrupt Labour/Unionists. It just makes people physically sick of the sight of them. How can they stoop so low. They have no shame. They should be black affronted. It is the one’s whose lives they are ruining who are voting/supporting them. It is total abuse of society and public money. Corruption.

    2017 the 3rd rate rejects come down further.

    People’s relationship are subject to outside pressure. Even far from home it is unfortunately that some people can’t resist the fringe benefits, but they will be held to account. Commiseration’s to all concerned. It is not smart to make political capital from it. People In big glass houses should not throw stones, including the Press. Torquil. Other people’s indisgressions could be taken in to it.

    Lying to your wife (regrettable) or killing and murdering Milliions of innocent people and bankrupting Britain. On a scale of 1 to 10. Commenting publicly shows no sympathy for the wife or family.

  61. heedtracker says:

    A media desperate to see the OBFA repealed so that it can get back to telling juicy stories of sectarian violence and hatred that sell lots of newspapers”

    And disgrace our country. So much yoon fcuk wittery and all for a minority hobby for gawds sake.

  62. Chic McGregor says:

    This is the guy who raised the repeal Bill so he should have done the research. However, that does not rule out the possibility he might not have. He could just be thick and ignorant lacking the numeracy and internet skills to establish the facts but then someone said he was an accountant and computer programmer…

    Oh dear, oh dearie me.

  63. Andrew McLean says:

    Ken 500 “They should be black affronted” I am sorry this use of black in the pejorative term is racist.

  64. Smallaxe says:

    In my opinion,half of the lie’s J.Kelly tells are not true!

  65. Flower of Scotland says:

    Thanks for this Rev.

    I can’t watch Scotland tonight anymore. It’s as bad as the BBC in Scotland. I was watching my favourite programme at the moment, Breaking Bad.

    However I know that you will pick up these lies, when they try to wheel them out. Sorry to say that Kelly is typical example of a Labour MSP. Intent at voraciously harming anything SNP at every turn. You can see the madness in his face sometimes.

    I do think though that this is a Unionist idea to increase sectarianism in Scotland, so that it can then tell the world how rubbish the SNP are at governing.

    Great article to share far and wide.

  66. liz says:

    Surely JKelly should be made to explain to the polling companies why he is accusing them of poorly constructed, discredited polls.

    They have their reputations to think of and could this be construed as slander?

  67. One_Scot says:

    You know that there is really something seriously wrong with your political system when people like James Kelly are given oxygen only to then poison the air we breathe.

  68. Kenzie says:

    WOW! You didn’t miss Kelly and hit the wall with that one.

  69. Kenzie says:

    “Murray A Nix says:
    17 May, 2016 at 11:18 am
    James Kelly is a weapons grade A1 complete nugget. I live only 100 metres from his constituency office and in the 5 years living here NEVER ONCE saw him in Rutherglen.”

    Try The Vogue bar. He is known there.

  70. Dan Huil says:

    The britnat media eagerly gobbles up then regurgitates lies spouted by scum like Kelly. Don’t buy britnat newspapers, don’t pay the bbc tax.

  71. Robert McDonald says:

    Andrew MacLean: Can you explain why you perceive “black affronted” to be racist? The Doric dictionary has an explanation from a reader thus:
    “probable derivation comes from New lanark, a cotton mill operated on humanitarian lines by Robert Owen. Above a worker’s machine there was a wooden cube. Overseers would turn the cube to show the quality of work. The black front of the cube was shown when work was substandard.”
    Can we just not use the word black any more?

  72. Ken500 says:

    It was Westminster before Universal Suffrage that Illegally Partitioned Ireland. Lloyd George a Liberal. They were lying even then. Westminster cause the ‘Ulsterisation’ of Ireland. They behaved despicable and ilegally – hide it under the Offical Secrets Act – M15 causing unrest and illegal murder at the hand of Westminster and the British Establishment. They broke every International Law.

    A Home Rule Bill was passed in Westminster in April 1914. Irish Nationals agreed to, lay it aside to join the joint war effort. It should have come Into affect in September 1914, ratified by the Lords.

    The minority Uster unionists,illegally, started to arm. Aided by members of the British Establishment. The minority in Ireland gained Westminster support. Westminster Unionists illegally manipulated the situation to Partition Ireland and deny Irish Home Rule and prosperity. Westminster supported an apartheid state. The majority in Ulster deliberately, illegally and corruptly discriminated against Catholics.

    There so called ‘Journalists’ using the term ‘Ulsterisation’ in reference to Scotland just show up their complete ignorance. They have never read a relevant history book in their lives. ‘Ulsterisation’ was a Westminster Unionist establishment crime.

    It affected Scotland because Scottish revenues were secretly and illegally taken to support a totally corrupt illegal Westminster administration for Unionist votes from Ulster. Making Scotland poorer because of Westminster policies. .

    Ulster (six counties) 2 million people. Raises £28Billion in taxes. Gets £14Billion (50%) more = £42Billion. Norwegian levels of funding.

    Ireland could reunite. The demographics have changed. The majority in the North and the South could vote to reunite. Ireland would be more prosperous and happier. The sectarism in Ulster is beyond belief. It adversely affects the whole society and causes hardship.

  73. Free Scotland says:

    You can be sure that, if James Kelly contributes anything to political life in Scotland, it will be something negative or utterly useless, like the man himself. If his brain were replaced with an oven-baked cauliflower, no-one would notice the difference.

  74. Alba46 says:

    Kelly is a graduate of the fetid pool of Slab. Imagine what the failures are like?. An unelected no hopper who cant get through a day without his supply of SNP hate pills.
    Dugdale has an even bigger job on her hands sorting out the dinosaur members of her failing party.

    O/T re the bias of the BBC in general and Scotland in particular. Many people in Scotland still pay the licence fee but still get fed the daily diet of propaganda from the state broadcaster. People are not getting what they pay for ie news and current affairs that “educate and inform” in a fair and balanced manner as per the BBC charter.

    As an SNP supporter I have to admit that the SNP have failed in trying to get a better deal for Scotland. It is difficult when all the cards are stacked against you but they need to try harder. There is enough evidence out there which highlights the blatant bias of the state broadcaster. They need to get more street wise and confrontational when live on air. Being nice does not cut it with the BBC or the people of Scotland. They need to be more aggresive and stand up for the people that they represent.

  75. Perhaps a EUFA official, the pollsters and a Police spokesperson could be invited to give advice to inform the debate before the Bill vote.

  76. heedtracker says:

    Can we just not use the word black any more?

    Its just to drag Scots back into the UKOK gutter, where we belong?

    Sunday in Rome, a Scottish athlete Veni Vidi Vici’d the legs off of the world no.1 Novak Djokovic.

    This week it’s all forgotten by our relentlessly creepy tory BBC led UKOK media.

    Scotland’s minority of bigots and Scottish haha yoon media deserve each other but what’s this hard core tory law prof’s take on it all today, also all new unelected tory MSP lest we forget, in Slovenia

    Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 5h5 hours ago
    –> The same is true of the equally offensive named persons law. It’s not just that it won’t work. It’s that it’s objectionable in principle

  77. Ken500 says:

    A small % of rape cases (accusation) ever come to Court in Scotland because of the need for corroboration. (second witness) in Scottish Law. A low conviction rate. It has to be virtually recorded or have a multiple of witnesses, from relevant numerous offences, before it comes to Court.

    It could be an advantage to take corroboration from Rape cases, with other relevant evidence needed for court conviction. False accusation happens with other crimes but are disproven. if someone is assaulted there are the bruises and forensic evidence. That can be difficult in rape or child abuse cases. One word against another.

  78. Almannysbunnet says:

    And they wonder why labour is almost extinct in Scotland. Give me strength! Kelly you are a disgrace. The old tricks of lying through your teeth with a compliant media at your side doesn’t work anymore. Your audience is diminishing by the day.
    When will these buffoons learn that we watch, listen and dissect their every utterance.
    The SFA needs to grow a pair and UEFA should hammer any of their football associate members who are not doing everything to stamp it out.
    This should not need to be a government matter but as long as it is then it should be supported until the football authorities get off their arses and do something about it.

  79. sounds like he is infected by the bacterium “imbecillium”.

  80. T.roz says:

    I like the headline. Nice and clean. Can just imagine Kelly’s face when he is told there is a wee bit about him on wings.

  81. galamcennalath says:

    Alba46 says

    “SNP have failed in trying to get a better deal for Scotland. It is difficult when all the cards are stacked against you but they need to try harder.”

    Like forcing legislation through Westminster? How? Look what happened to their Scotland Act amendments.

    “They need to get more street wise and confrontational when live on air. Being nice does not cut it with the BBC or the people of Scotland. They need to be more aggresive”

    Election results show “people of Scotland” respond to relentless positivity far better than negativity. Yes, it must be hard in the face of the BBC bias, but I think they usually play that side of politics well. Especially Salmond and now Sturgeon.

    I would lose my temper and storm off. They do their jobs far far better than I ever could.

    “As an SNP supporter I have to admit that the SNP” deserve much respect for political skill and achievement.

  82. Walter Scott says:

    i can’t understand what Kelly is saying. It’s like he’s been plucked half pished from a bar in Glasgow, given a suit and put on the telly. Is this the best Labour can come up with? What a moron. Come back Jim Devine your party needs you

  83. Dr Jim says:


    Certainly don’t be disheartened by BBC programs like Call Kaye
    The job of the State Broadcaster as you know by now is to reflect the will and opinion of the Union not the will of Scotland
    If you ever were to actually call Kaye the process is, first you speak to a researcher who asks you what you want to say, if it is not what they want represented on the program you are then told that it’s a very busy phone in today and if there’s time they’ll call you back, which they don’t of course

    Then if you’re daft enough you wait while you listen to the same Unionists who are regulars on the phone in, irritate you by promoting the same bitter Yoon garbage they promote every other day of the week, they won

    The purpose is twofold, One, it increases their listening audience, Two, they hope it will somehow succeed into conning you that more people are FOR Unionism than against it, resulting in causing you to be depressed about the future of your country so you’ll just slink away and forget all about these terribly silly ideas you’ve been having and return to “Normal”

    But you’re not, no way, going to do that, are you Valerie

  84. heedtracker says:

    Future Lord Smirky of Slovenia interesting up against the statistical stuff. Fair enough yoon propaganda in their Scotland region is not about real world but even so,

    How do you get “it won’t work” from a 69% conviction rate?

    How do you get “it won’t work” from a a year on year drop in the crime?

    How do you get to be a law prof in Glasgow uni, tweeting this pack of Slovenia says vote NO or else legal eagle garbage anyway?

    Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 5h5 hours ago
    –> The same is true of the equally offensive named persons law. It’s not just that it won’t work. It’s that it’s objectionable in principle

  85. Haggishunter says:

    To any Unionist reading this, you cant cherry pick your hatred. Racism is illegal, homophobia is illegal and abuse on religious grounds is also illegal.
    Quite simple really.

    This should really go to the European courts, because its a blatant attempt from the LabServativeDem and BBC unionist media at promoting public disorder and hatred in Scotland using the media for manipulation.

  86. Glamaig says:

    Can I suggest you change the headline to ‘James Kelly MSP is a liar’ just to hammer home this is another elected representative telling blatant lies to the public on TV?

  87. “History Politics and Vulnerability:
    explaining excess mortality in Scotland and Glasgow.”

    A Report by the Glasgow Centre for Population Health, NHS Scotland, The University of West Scotland, and University College London.
    This is what the Better Together Red Blue and Jaundiced Tories, and the Brit State MSM Propaganda machine have been trying to smother at birth over the past 24 hours.

    Kelly, and the other losers, The Queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser, WATP Professor Adam Tomkins, and the anti gay Kirk Elder and Dairy Farmer from that well know football cauldron Stonehaven, Alex Johnstone, and now Kelly, who were all rejected soundly by their constituents, are on the airwaves, peddling this nonsense. The MSM conveniently unearth their SNP Sex Scandal story in tandem, so that this quite breathtaking Unionist Damning report is effectively buried.

    WGD has an excellent piece on it.

    It is a comprehensive report that presents evidence and charts the deliberate destruction of Scotland, West Central Scotland and Glasgow, by UK and Local Unionist politicians, and political and economic decisions by UK Governments .

    In comparison with Liverpool and Manchester, Scotland and in particular West Central Scotland and Glasgow has 5000 more premature deaths than these comparable cities, and indeed Glasgow is now the premature death by alcohol, drugs, violent death, suicide, and the old favourites, heart, cancer, and so on.And it is getting worse.
    It is a comprehensive report setting out decisions made, in housing overcrowding, high rise hells, new towns depleting Glasgow of its most skilled workers, deindustrialisation, and neglect.
    Labour’s legacy, and Tory democratic deficits.Scotland the Wasteland
    It is a weighty Tome and worthy of a WoS article by one of the authors, Stu.
    But no. John Mc Kay, and Scotland 2016, and BBC breakfast, and now that woman’s utterly pointless propaganda phone in, bang on about restoring bigotry to Ibrox and Parkhead.

    Most folk in this country can’t stand WATP Tomkins, or The Queen’s Eleven Fraser, and their nasty little sectarianism.
    Kelly is a thick bigoted little man, who like Murphy, and Reid, and the rest illustrate what a farce the ‘Celtic Family’ tag really is. It is owned and run by a neo Liberal billionaire, and a Board that is arch conservative. Bigotry is big bucks. It also sells Dead Tree Scrolls to the knuckledraggers, and gets the vote in for the Union.

    I find it ironic that blue and green low paid working class people have any time for Unionist Neo liberal Tories of all hues, be it Dugdale, Davidson or Rennie.

    As for Harvie. Get a grip, man. You surely cannot be considering siding with any of these lying chancers?
    If so, what was the point?
    We have the worst early death rate in Europe, and its getting worse.
    But we’re up to our knees in Fenian Blood, so whit the fuck?
    I despise these dung beetles.

  88. Bob Mack says:

    Sorry to be a pest,but the term “black affronted ” has absolutely nothing to do with race. It was coined as the term for Scottish nobles covering up their heraldic shield so as not to be recognised ,especially in flight from the battle. It is that old a usage.

  89. Ken500 says:

    The SNP can’t do anything about Broadcasting in Scotland, because People voted NO. They have set up Committees and canvassed for change and complained. A ToryUnionist was complaining about ‘ River City’ being insulted by a BBC rep. Obviously a fan. There is recognition from BBC hied bangers for change. Change to BBC being monitored Ann held to account.. External.

    There is a new Charter. Many people have complained about the need for fairness (devolved) for the Regions, Wales and Scotland. There is a new white paper.

    Cameron’s failed ex-banker is still in Charge. Cameron still decided the Policies. ‘Land of Hope and Glory. The Tory non impartial, tax evading Queen Bee. and cousin Cameron.

  90. Ken500 says:

    Black affronted is nothing to do with race.- Racist.

    Black as in bad. Dark forces. The colour not – a race term.

    Ie dark forces – black. Doing a bad deed. Good forces white. Light and dark. Heaven and hell.

    Black flames -Tunnel of lightness.

    Keep your racism to yourself.

    Nice try

  91. DerekM says:

    @ Robert McDonald

    Correct Robert though in Andrew MacLean`s defence it has been misused and the meaning can be mistaken,its a phrase from before we all came a bit more aware of how certain words and phrases can have a darker meaning.

    Its PC gone mad but what can you do except not use it anymore just in case it upsets someone who thinks it means something else.

    Language is a strange bugger at times though its good to question the meanings as its difficult to track down the origin of some of our more colourful words and phrases,for example i only recently found out that zoomer was a reference to being out your nut on magic mushrooms (thanks Fred),though i think today it is more in line with being a Slabber lol

  92. Slightly OT I see the daily stranger has been running a story about former Labour MP Nigel Griffths alleged involvement in a tax avoidance scheme for players.

  93. Greannach says:

    The alarming thing for the branch must be that they saw fit to select Kelly as someone suitable to represent them. If he is an example of their best, the branch must be cringing at their worst. I can’t imagine what kind of buffoons they must be.

    James Kelly makes Jimmy Hood look like Bismarck.

  94. Hugh Barclay says:

    So Unionists want us to be able to be racially abusive, get pished (followed by abusing the partner)and sniff glue

    Well a wee bit of raping and pillaging should be ok to as long as I have a football scarf on?

  95. Dr Jim says:

    The media are a disgrace to Scotland anyway attempting to lay blame all over the place except on the people who are responsible for it

    Where are the Clergy interviews from all sides, it’s their bloody lot who caused the divisions in the first place with their “My way’s better than your way” style of divide and conquer stupidity

    It’s no wonder Scotland is a more secular country now than ever before, all the normal humans want no part of it

    Arguing over a Book that was written 300 years after the story of the death of a guy that was used and twisted and distorted out of all proportion in order to create a prophesied lie and make it their truth

    And even then kept revising it for the next two thousand years to make it fit their agenda
    The bible talks a lot about the scribes and the pharisees, just change their titles to politicians for a minute and then decide who’s conning who

    BTW Not having a go at GOD because that one I can’t disprove but I take some comfort in that it can’t be proved either

  96. Bob Mack says:

    @Ken 500,

    Your losing it pal. I think you should remember that colours in clothing long ago were very limited. There was no Benetton. It’s people like yourself that turn meaningless phrases into something never intended.

    What next? Re name the Black isle?? Get a grip.

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    Yes I want Scotland to be a normal nation state that has the power and authority to tackle the important issues, such as protecting Scotland’s children, adult and wee, from sectarianism, climate change effects or any avoidable social harm. I reckon a written constitution is a definite requirement in this respect, for any modern state.

    Scotland, however, is held in political bondage by a medievalist Establishment which has shown it has absolutely no regard for Scottish liberties or human tights. This is the same Establishment who’s media has informed us endlessly, that global warming climate change is man-man. Well, we aren’t helping but the science suggest otherwise.

    Surely it’s essential to understand the nature of a problem before one can address it?

    At times, Britain has been hot enough for hippos to live in Norfolk. At other times ice has covered the country for tens of thousands of years.

    Global climate change has usually occurred very slowly over thousands or millions of years.

    Today our climate is changing quickly by comparison.

    It is of primary importance to explain that climate change, and subsequent periods of glaciation, resulting from the following three variables is not due to the total amount of solar energy reaching Earth. The three Milankovitch Cycles impact the seasonality and location of solar energy around the Earth, thus impacting contrasts between the seasons.

  98. I’m so angry about this , that my normal communications skills have deserted me.
    Here is a C&P from the Report:

    The key features of Scottish excess mortality.
    • Mortality is considerably higher in Scotland relative to England & Wales, and in Glasgow relative to Liverpool and Manchester, after accounting for differences in neighbourhood deprivation and individual socioeconomic status (SES) of the populations.
    • After adjustment for deprivation/SES, premature mortality rates are 20% higher in Scotland, compared with England & Wales, and 30% higher in Glasgow compared with Liverpool and Manchester. The equivalent figures for mortality at all ages are 10% and 15% respectively.
    • This excess is observed in all parts of Scotland compared with the rest of Great Britain, but is greatest in and around the West Central Scotland (WCS) conurbation and, in particular, Glasgow.
    • The excess is increasing over time.
    • The excess is seen across all adult age groups, but is highest among those of working age (15-64 years), and especially younger working age (15-44 years) (although in absolute terms, deaths at younger ages obviously account for a smaller proportion of the total).
    • The excess is observed across all deprivation groups/social classes, although for premature mortality, it is more pronounced in comparisons of the poorest/most deprived populations.
    • The excess is observed for a broad range of causes of death.
    • There are differences in the contribution of particular causes of death to the excess observed at all ages (driven particularly by higher numbers of deaths from cancer, heart disease and stroke) compared with the excess observed for deaths among working ages (over half of which relate to deaths from alcohol, drugs, suicide and violence).
    • Given the relationship between socioeconomic factors (e.g. deprivation) and health behaviours, the excess persists even after statistical adjustment for differences in behaviours such as smoking, physical activity, diet etc.
    But of course pandering to murdering psychopaths is much more important to losers like Kelly, WATP Professor Adam Tomkins, The Queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser, and the Dairy Man from Sonehaven Alex Johnstone, than Scotland’s premature death rate through deprivation, political malevolence and quite deliberate scorched earth Unionist attacks.
    Dig out the SNP Bed Romp story. God Save the Queen and God Bless the Pope.
    Money grubbing little shits.

  99. Andrew McLean says:

    “black affronted”

    And there we have one man’s offensive remark, is another man’s casual saying, however and in defence I am sure wings has loads of nobles hiding their shields, or weavers ? but as Scotland becomes more diverse could some allowance be made? It is only recently that the phrase began to acquire a negative, racial overtone, for example take the “n” word, it’s a colour of paint, a friendly dog name, but it would get you a punch in the face today.

    And Is this not the nub of the argument, Kelly brought up in his tradition becomes desensitised to language that some may find offensive. so it’s ok to sing about religion, terrorism or death and generally behave like some Neanderthals thug, as long as you have your boys by your side.

    All we hear is their rights to their tradition, what about the rights of the rest of us to be free from their bigotry?

    If the Greens side to scrap this law, it will be their undoing with the electorate, during their party conference they made so much about the rights of minorities, sexual and ethnic, now they put their hat in with the bigots?

  100. bugsbunny says:

    Shy Unionist,

    What about the then 60 year old wife of the then First Minister of Northern Ireland, Iris Robinson having a sexual relationship “over several years” with a 19 year old boy in 2010? (So fuck knows what age he was when he started?).

    Or how about the fact she helped secure £50 000 from developers to help him, (19 year old Kirk McCambley) launch a Belfast Cafe? Or is it only Nationalists that should keep it in their trousers?

    This is the same woman who campaigned against Gay Rights carrying Placards saying NO SODOMY IN ULSTER, yet young Kirk, who may have been only 16 or 17 when this affair started, liked a bit of “Uphill Gardening” without the aid of condoms, but presumably lub.

    Typical fucking Loyalist. Go spread your faux outrage somewhere else.


  101. Alba 46 says:

    galamcennalath says:

    Election results show “people of Scotland” respond to relentless positivity far better than negativity. Yes, it must be hard in the face of the BBC bias, but I think they usually play that side of politics well. Especially Salmond and now Sturgeon.

    Yeh like the independence referendum you mean? We responded to the positivity argument put forward by the Yes campaign and where did it get us – NO to independence. You can’t have it both ways.

    I respect what the SNP have done and continue to do and will always support them, but my support is not a blank cheque to slavishly follow them just because they are the vehicle to independence. If they come up with a bill that I don’t like I wont support them. In the matter if independence I will ALWAYS support them.

  102. Bob Mack says:

    @Andrew McLean,

    Appreciate what you are saying Andrew,but here’s the rub. Black is not offensive.My two very proud Scottish mates identify themselves as being black and are proud of that fact,

    Every year I watch the MOBO awards ,attended by people who proudly declare themselves as black or of racial black ancestry.

    It is when you start creating pejorative terms to otherwise describe black that offence is taken.

  103. Gonnajustsayaye says:

    I am sorry ,the opinion poll question is wrong ,it says the aim of the act is to tackle sectarian behaviour.
    The Act however does not mention sectarian behaviour at all can anyone show the section of the act which says sectarian

    .The act aims to tackle offensive behaviour .If it was to tackle sectarian behaviour the act would be called the Sectarian Behaviour at Football Act.
    It That is the problem.How does the act define what is offensive .”behaviour that a reasonably minded person would find offensive” according to the act.
    That is open to interpretation.
    Why only at football matches why is it not the Offensive Behaviour and apply in all situations and contexts .Is it OK to be offensive in the street house ,cinema but only at the football.
    The reason why they don’t publish a list of songs that are offensive is that some of the songs are freely available to buy on CD or downloaded from IT tunes .For the government to state songs were offensive would leave them open to legal action from writers record companies etc.
    The act is a dogs dinner ,and whilst is aims are laudable the act is badly written sets some worrying precedents in that what is offensive is open to interpretation.

    Iam an SNP supporter and voter ,but this act needs changed or improved.

  104. Andrew McLean says:

    Bob, Mel culpa, I could have used a better example. I stand white affronted.

  105. bugsbunny says:

    Andrew McLean,

    I’ve heard people complain about the word blackmail as being racist. So here goes:

    Blackmail: 16th Century Scot’s Farmers paid their rent, or mail to their landlords in either the form of white mail, (Silver Coins) or black mail, (Livestock or Crops). The word blackmail took on negative connotations when the landlords took more from the tenant farmers in crops/livestock when said farmers were low in silver coins (whitemail). Later when raiders/freebooters demanded livestock to cross clan frontiers on the way to market, or else suffer the consequences, blackmail assumed its modern meaning.


  106. robertknight says:

    The guy doesn’t appear capable of washing the bird s**t off the roof of his car, never mind sitting in Holyrood trying to pass himself off as anything other than the ‘seat-plug’ which he obviously is.

    Is that the best that Slabber can do?

    Scottish Labour a.k.a the Zombie Party – walking/talking corpses without the intelligence to realise that they’re already dead from the neck up.

  107. galamcennalath says:

    Alba 46 says:

    “Yeh like the independence referendum you mean? We responded to the positivity argument put forward by the Yes campaign and where did it get us – NO to independence”

    The positive message got us from 30% into the 50s, then back again when the DevoMax card was played.

    I am a firm believer that the negativity of the Naesayers did them more harm than good.

    Better Together put forward no case for the Union, only Project Fear. It cost them a massive lead.

    Yes/SNP and their positive message got us to where we are, 50:50ish.

    When positive versus negative campaigning starts again, further progress will be made. slowly but surely.

    I am also convinced that IndyRef1 was probably destined to fail because DevoMax was the will of the Scots then. Cameron knew he could swing it by playing that card. 5th Sept he was told he was about to lose. 8th of Sept the DevoHomeSuperMaxHomeFederal shite started.

    The deceitful promises caused 4-5% to switch Yes to No in the last ten days.

  108. Gary45% says:

    Mentioned earlier Kelly being incompetent, I think the correct word is Incontinent going by the amount of PISH that dribbles from his mouth.

  109. heedtracker says:

    Its not only fledgling Scottish democracy getting tory led BBC media monstered with UKOK sectarian garbage, by hard core toryboy banalities like

    alexmassie ?@alexmassie 3m3 minutes ago
    Jeremy Corbyn should not be allowed to rewrite the history of his support for the IRA.

  110. galamcennalath says:

    Me @ 1:28

    Why is A l b a getting changed to Caesar! ?

    Wisnae me!

  111. Valerie says:

    Had a quick look at Harvies timeline on Twitter, and I’m not encouraged.

    I’m trying really fcking hard to move on from the election, but I foretold this shit – a minority gov’t is still the gov’t, but they are constantly wasting time fighting a rearguard action.

    I worked and wanted a majority gov’t so they were facing forward, fighting and exposing WM instead of fighting shit like this.

    Harvie asserts the Act has done more harm than good but when someone asked how, he has not answered.

    Harvie looks like he is parroting all the crap I heard this morning on Kaye.


  112. Andrew McLean says:

    How can we trust Labour, after their brightest stars taught a whole generation of Labour activists, the entire IRA songbook.

    And they say labour hasn’t the cancer of sectarianism, running through their veins!

  113. Bill McDermott says:

    I could have sworn that Kelly’s face got redder and redder as the interview went on.

    Was it the drink or was it that he was being called out on his great strategy to get one back on the hated SNP?

  114. Wull says:

    ‘I’m Black, and I’m not Affronted.’

  115. Alba 46 says:

    galamcennalath says:

    The positive message got us from 30% into the 50s, then back again when the DevoMax card was played.

    Agreed – but we still lost

    Better Together put forward no case for the Union, only Project Fear. It cost them a massive lead.

    But it still worked

    When positive versus negative campaigning starts again, further progress will be made. slowly but surely.

    Where is the evidence?

    The UK government will use any means at its disposal.The tactics used by them to win the referendum reflect that. They will fight dirty and in the gutter to achieve their aim. Look at the history of the Empire. Countries now free from British colonialism bear the scars of a nation that will do what it takes to succeed and further its own cause.

    We are not going to get many more chances at an independence referendum. The first one failed. We can’t afford to loose another one. To use the same tactics second time round is utter madness. We must identify the parts that succeeded and use them again and the parts that failed replace with a different approach.

    You and I support the same end game however the method used to get there differs.

    By the way its Alba 46 not Ceaser!46 – wearisome and immature

  116. louis.b.argyll says:

    Labour don’t want to end sectarianism.

    They, and it, are responsible for much of what still drags us down.

  117. Dr Jim says:

    Remember folks the parliament channel at 2pm where the big moment apparently is going to be Willie Rennie informing us all that although the SNP may be the largest party they are no more important that the Liberal Democrats who are equal

    So that’s us Telt by another one who cannae count

    In amongst his 3 minute speech will be many mentions of Lib Dem achievements and many mentions of SNP Baad

    Tory Ruth couldn’t put her name forward for FM because she didn’t stand as a party for government, her manifesto specifically stated the Ruth party for opposition

    Kezia waived her right to stand as did Patrick Harvie

    Murphy the spy has informed me there will be a statement of intent from Nicola Sturgeon in her acceptance speech should she be fortunate enough to be re-elected

    I’m thinking I would be a lot less polite than the FM but I suppose that’s why nobody would want me for a politician

  118. People Carrier says:

    Methodologically speaking, he’s less research onion and more research turnip.

  119. Andrew McLean says:

    Dr Jim
    I would vote for you !

  120. orri says:

    Labour, at least in some parts of Scotland, were the party of choice for catholics. Conservative and Unionist for protestants. Labour also lucked out in being the party of the working man. With support melting there are some courting one half of the most bigoted support on one side of the Old Firm whilst their “rivals” are going after the other.

    This is partly what “Ulsterisation” is about. But in reality what they’re on about is the creation of political parties unique to Scotland. Even then the complaint is that if there was a split in the conservatives to reform the Scottish Unionist Party then that’d set an upper limit in how far a scottish MP from that party might rise in government. On the other hand it would remain to be seen what would happen to Labour. Certainly a truly independent scottish labour party might be free to push more firmly for Home Rule and thus tip the political balance towards greater autonomy.

  121. Macart says:

    Y’know it would be almost worth it?

    Y’know to have everyone endorse Wullie and have him answer FMQs?

    The carnage to Scotland’s reputation would be awful, but the entertainment value… 😉

  122. Valerie says:

    You have my vote, Dr Jim.

    Even Willie Rennies 12 year old son said,, Dad, you’re not?

  123. A2 says:

    Don’t forget that anything connected with or commissioned by wings is instantly dismissed without even reading it and therefore doesn’t count so the panelbase results can be ignored.

  124. Petra says:

    Pretty depressing overall. Scotland having to deal with Westminster to the South and Ireland to the West. Add to that a corrupt Unionist media, for example John McKay and Kaye Adams, and morons such as SLabs loser (one of them) James Kelly being given the time of day to publicly lie through his teeth. All complicit in dragging us back in time. All driven by their personal bigoted beliefs intertwined with doing their Masters bidding happy to see Scotland being riven with sectarian agitation and violence, misery and mayhem. For what? To score points with the SNP and to hell with the Scots? What’s new?

    Scottish Labour have a lot to answer for already having spent decades presiding over some of the most (Better Together) poverty stricken areas not just in Scotland or the UK but Europe. Recent research findings outline a damning picture of the damage done to (rebellious) Glasgow by successive Westminster Governments, Tory and Labour, but more than anything by Labour run Glasgow City Council. The ‘damage’ includes thousands of individuals lives being prematurely cut short. The lives of thousands of children, decade after decade, ‘stunted’ from day one. How horrendous is that and strange that THAT’s not being discussed on Call Kaye or STV.

    As to SLab they not only don’t seem to want to talk to the people (except when they lie via the meeja), they don’t seem to want to read crucial reports or consider the results of valid polls either. In other words they don’t want to consider how deleterious their policies have been, current thinking, and change their ways at all. The hammering they took in their Glasgow heartland (heart attack land) recently should have been a wake up call. In saying that it’s clear that it’s impossible to wake up the dead (brained). They’ve learned nothing, still support the Tories who have used them at every turn and THEY (numpties) more so than the Tories will be held accountable for the, no doubt, escalating sectarian behaviour in Scotland if they give the sectarian bigots the green light to go (man go – full pelt).

    @ Kenny at 10:53am ……. Celtic League and the UN.

    Excellent post and best suggestion yet Kenny. James Kelly and the leader of his party Kezia Dugdale should be reported to the United Nations for initiating the overturn of this Act with all it implies in relation to the safety and well-being of the Scots. Davidson, Rennie and Harvie too if they support it. James Kelly et al live in a wee bubble whereby they think they can do and say what they like because they have the support of the corrupt media and Westminster. However they may find that there are other more powerful agencies that they can be held accountable by beyond these shores.

  125. NiallD says:

    Nicola is the Boss!

  126. Proud Cybernat says:

    Kelly makes Coburn seem like an intellectual giant. And that really is saying something…

    Sorry, can’t hear you David!

  127. Andrew McLean says:

    Nicola is First Minister, the sun is shining and the birds are tweeting again!
    5 votes for Willie Rennie embarrassing no other party would lend him some support 63 votes for Nicola Sturgeon, but abstentions, no opinion the rest? shameful!

  128. heedtracker says:

    Far right want it both ways, shock. Toryboy bullshit artists are pretty dull to watch in action but they can be fabulous hypocrites for their yoon culture. Banalities of great British bullshit.

    euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
    an excellent alex massie piece on the offensive behaviour at football act, a terrible law:

    Chris Deerin ?@chrisdeerin 4h4 hours ago
    how about they just get on with education reform, ffs

  129. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Could this website provide some other examples of lying in politics? How about a list of politicians who lie to their wives?”

    You want the Daily Mail, pal. I didn’t give a fuck when Gordon Matheson of Labour was getting arrested for gobbling someone off in a parked car, I didn’t give a fuck when John Whittingdale of the Tories was getting six of the best off some dominatrix, and I don’t give a fuck if a couple of SNP MPs have had a mid-life crisis either.

    People’s private lives are their own business and trolls aren’t welcome on this site. That’s your first and only warning.

  130. K1 says:


    ‘5 votes for Willie Rennie embarrassing no other party would lend him some support 63 votes for Nicola Sturgeon, but abstentions, no opinion the rest? shameful!’

    Whit huv a missed, a vote for what?

    Sometimes it’s like being stuck on a shoogly wee train meandering along on Wings and other times things are moving so quickly it’s like being on a super fast express….theyr’e right…we ur extremists… 🙂

  131. How many of the excess deaths in Glasgow and her environs can be attributed to the sectarian spleen that yoons want to decriminalise? A big chunk of them probably – and I’m not talking about the actual murders and beatings, although there’s been plenty of that over the years.

    The damage to physical and mental health caused by living in conflict with your neighbours is well understood:

    The shortening of lifespan caused by feeling like an outsider in society is well understood:

    The relationship between hostility and heart disease is well known:

    … but the unionist parties (and the greens, of all people) want to send out the message that our society sees abusive and threatening behaviour as acceptable! Because sectarian infighting among the puir dightit weejies is sadly inevitable. How bloody progressive.

    Instead of repealing OBFA, they should just tip ten truckloads of slurry into Mugdock reservoir – it would cause far less damage to public health, nevermind crime rates and the local economy.

    … Aw, f**kit! It’s startin to look like the better nation wis jist a mirage. I need buckfast and two pie suppers quick, ma learned helplessness is kicking back in.

  132. heedtracker says:

    “On Sunday, May 8, Germany hit a new high in renewable energy generation. Thanks to a sunny and windy day, at one point around 1pm the country’s solar, wind, hydro and biomass plants were supplying about 55 GW of the 63 GW being consumed, or 87%”

    Meanwhile in the Scotland region, Green painted carpet baggers at Holyrood demand the right of football fans to etc etc undemocratic, bad law, failed already, no convicts, only fun, where’s the harm, Scots love it really, polls flawed, vote me, I’m a fcukwit yoon…

    Green carpet baggers may actually hold the destiny of Scotland in their unelected hands too, with that new intake of Green bollocks.

    Somewhere up in heaven, Donald grins.

  133. K1 says:

    Scunter, keep the heid and get us a fish supper while yer at it will ye? 😉

  134. findlay farquaharson says:

    holyrood needs a village idiot too, kelly fits the role perfectly

  135. Andrew McLean says:

    Half a chicken supper plenty of salt and vinegar and two pickled onions and brown sauce and a can of diet coke please! 😉

  136. Robert Graham says:

    O/T either the Hollyrood live feed is crap or some pretty dodgy work is under way , example Ruth Davidson played twice , Patrick Harvey played three times , oops here comes wullie again , this will be the fourth time . Dear Dear f/n disgracefull . So far every party apart from the overwhelming winner being given a platform .

  137. schrodingers cat says:

    greens abstained

    as long as they continue to do so, nicola has a majority

  138. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Why is A l b a getting changed to Caesar! ?”

    Because I’m sick of people signing their comments with slogans. The rule of comments is to talk like you would to a normal person in real life. If you wouldn’t end every passage of speech by shouting “ALBA GU BRATH!” at a real person – or saying your name – then don’t bloody do it in comments.

    (I realise that isn’t what happened in this specific example, but that’s what happens if people force me to impose crude automated word filters rather than edit them all out manually.)

  139. Davy says:

    So its agreed, James Kelly is either a dick, bawbag, numpty or all three.

    And Willie Rennie is his love child.

    Its a good start to the day.

  140. call me dave says:

    Nice to hear Sturgeon layout her policy indicators and to mention self government a couple of times.

    I’m avoiding the fish & chip shop because it’s day 1 of a new parliament all to play for folks!

  141. call me dave says:

    @Robert Graham
    Same thing here I had to rewind to hear Sturgeon all the way through shurley a technical glitch.. 🙂

  142. AhuraMazda says:

    It’s interesting to see so many other subjects merging with this sectarian stuff. People are talking about racism and mortality rates and everything.

    Celtic and Rangers between them somehow manage to tempt about 100,000 people every week to watch third rate football. Countless 100s of thousands also watch at home. For so many in our country, then, that’s all that matters; football and sectarian rivalry. They seem to love it.

    What difference does it make to us if they sing abusive songs at one another? If it was up to me, we’d hand out bazookas at Rangers v Celtic games. The vast majority of these people don’t give a toss about Politics or anything meaningful.

    I’m listening to Nicola making her speech having been elected First Minister. She hasn’t said one positive thing about the free market or getting lazy people back to work.

    This country… pfffff

  143. Cherry says:

    Scunterbunnet I’m partial to a wee single fish oh an an ingin an aw! 😉

  144. @Andrew McLean: DIET coke. Nice touch.

  145. Andrerw McLean says:

    Don’t you just hate it when they put the salt on first then wash it all off with the vinegar! fuming face >:(

  146. heedtracker says:

    What difference does it make to us if they sing abusive songs at one another? If it was up to me, we’d hand out bazookas at Rangers v Celtic games. The vast majority of these people don’t give a toss about Politics or anything meaningful.”

    Then you’ve never been caught in a bus or a train with them, cued outside a cinema, or in a cafe and so on, as it all kicks off, women and kids punched, kicked and spat on by violent drunk “football supporters,” we’re supposed to call them. And then, turned over to BBC Scotland and watched documentaries with talking head “football supports” excitedly explain how they chased down say groups of Motherwell fans into dead ends where it all got very exciting.

    Is it any wonder that biggest of the “football clubs” is also a tax fraudster.

  147. K1 says:

    Aye AngirsensiblelieutenenatAhuradave…ye really don’t seem to know Scotland at all…

    yer quirky like that…innit.

  148. Dr Jim says:

    I feel the most significant moments of the day might be remembered with Patrick Harvie removing his mask and revealing for all to see that he’s really Professor Snape of Slitherin House by abstaining on the election of the FM

    I’ve always seen him as more of a little power mad communisticky Chinese chairman but now he’s succeeded in lowering my expectations of him even further by his display of threatening petulance today, if you can go lower than Willie Rennie that’s an achievement

    Ruth of the Ruth party was dire in her attempt to be Stateswomanly (If that’s a word)

    Shock horror though as Kezia sounded sensible and reasonable

    Nicola Sturgeon once again the star turn and demonstrated what a smart cookie she is majority or no
    Struck the correct tone throughout whilst still reminding the opposition the people of Scotland put her there and they count first last and always and if you think it’s all over,(Independence) it’s not!!

  149. Capella says:

    Watched end of the speeches – herky jerky relay spoilt the experience a bit so there is obviously a technical glitch.
    But Nicola came across loud and clear and very determined to deliver the manifesto.

    Will go back later to see if they have a better feed as I missed the wit and wisdom of Ruth and Kezia.

    Does anyone know when actual business begins? The formal opening is Saturday 2nd July. Does that mean these opposition moves on the OBFA and Named Person bills can’t happen until July? Can’t find any timetable on the parliament site.

  150. DerekM says:

    Yoon troll back up just came on,hows it going Dave still on zero hour contracts yet mate lol

    Flung bigger yoon trolls back in the pond cant eat them all buggers give me indigestion and my Doc says i need to go on a diet.

    So make mine a haggis supper and a bottle of water lol

    I know i should know this but how many lib dums is there and were they the only ones to vote for Wilbur irrelevant roflmao,even his yoon pals couldnt face voting for him oh jeez i think i just burst my spleen laughing 🙂

  151. heedtracker says:

    Nukes are good, it must true. How’s about Scottish Green’s going after nuke loving toryboy world in Scotland?

  152. Petra says:

    Well that’s it for me. Just listening to the speeches being made by Unionist party leaders (probably written by Tomkins in Moothies case) and Harvie re. Nicola’s selection as First Minister. Harvie is one back-stabbing little sh*t. In fact I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

    I said previously let’s wait and see, give him a chance and it’s clear to me, at least, now that he’s had his last chance as far as I’m concerned. He’s a despicable, ungracious, pathetic little weed. Brown not green.

    The eyes of the World’s media are firmly fixed on this historical moment in time for Scotland and what did they all do (least of all Dugdale and Rennie); took this opportunity to run Nicola and her policies down to the ground. Poor Nicola having to sit and listen to it all. More than anything I’m just wondering what she made of Harvie’s comments in particular.

    Nicola of course rose above it all as usual, above every last one of them, being the true professional and lovely, decent person that she is and her speech was brilliant. Just feeling pretty sad that Harvie has been such a let down and will never, EVER get a single vote from me at any time in the future, my ilk or friends again …. some of the latter who voted for them.

    I can see that we’ll all have to treble our efforts to support Nicola and the SNP as it looks as though she’s going to have to deal with some very stressful and difficult times over the coming months and years. In saying that I think we’ll be out of this nightmare of a Union by the end of 2019. I hope I’m right.

  153. Capella says:

    @ DerekM
    It was 63 votes for Nicola and 5 votes for Willie. Convention apparently is that the other parties abstain.

  154. Tinto Chiel says:

    Petra, I’m sure we all feel as you from time to time. The MSM exists to misinform and demoralise, which is why we end up here to get the facts and raise our spirits.

    What is annoying about Kelly’s interview is that any competent interviewer (therefore not someone like the Unreal McKay) could have shown he was lying and didn’t know anything about the poll’s methodology. Instead he was allowed to talk keech. I particularly noticed Kelly’s body language, for example the squirm as he began his first lying answer. He really is a contemptible excuse for a man.

    Reasons to be cheerful, Petra: Scottish Labour are finished and the SNP are excellent parliamentary strategists.

    “Davy says:

    So its agreed, James Kelly is either a dick, bawbag, numpty or all three.”

    It’s not quite as simple as that, Davy. You could add to your list by walking along Main Street in Rutherglen and asking for further heartfelt suggestions.

  155. K1 says:

    Capella are you saying that it’s only the winning party who have a vote on the appointment of the FM?

    If so does that mean that PHarvie was merely making some ‘political point’ by actually ‘stating this’. Labour and Tories all abstained too? And why did the Rennie put himsel’ forward for the FM…?

    Sorry a lot of questions cause I haven’t seen it, anyone have a link…lost all my bookmarks when I had to have the hard drive replaced…haven’t gotten around to finding them all again?

  156. heedtracker says:

    Do doobee do, do doobee dodah! Three posh tories in a BBC studio lunchtime, 17 mins in, “there wont be another Scottish referendum” and no EU ref 2 either, was the main thing for our imperial master baiters.

  157. AhuraMazda: “What difference does it make to us if they sing abusive songs at one another? If it was up to me, we’d hand out bazookas at Rangers v Celtic games.”

    Ever been to a scheme on old firm day, Ahura? If it was all just a cathartic singalong that stopped at the final whistle, I’d suggest cancelling the ‘football’ sideshow, and sticking a high electric fence at the halfway line to separate the opposing choirs. I have no problem with mutual contempt and abuse among consenting adults.

    We need laws like OBFA because of the collateral damage outside the ground.

  158. Valerie says:

    Completely agree, Harvie petulant and swaggering. Ruth quite triumphant in tone, just waiting on some beast of burden to mount.

    I actually thought Nicola, for the first time, looked quite tense, a bit downcast.

    Nicola is one of these people who is very careful about her body language, and its part of her role, very rarely does it show a chink, but I saw something briefly?

  159. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “can anyone show the section of the act which says sectarian”

    Yes, I can.

    (2) The behaviour is—
    (a) expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, a group of persons based on
    their membership (or presumed membership) of —
    (i) a religious group,
    (ii) a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation,

    If you’re too thick to know that that’s what “sectarian” means, I can’t help you.

  160. schrodingers cat says:

    another round of “kill the greenies, harvey ate my hamster”…

    had the greens voted for wr, the red and blue tories would have piled in. make no mistake.

    as long as the greens abstain, nicola has a majority
    whats the problem?

  161. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “A small % of rape cases (accusation) ever come to Court in Scotland because of the need for corroboration. (second witness) in Scottish Law”

    Corroboration doesn’t mean “second witness”, it means “second source of evidence”. But in any event conviction rate in this context applies specifically to cases which DO make it to court.

  162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Sorry, I’m an SNP member and supporter but i don’t think criminalising 16 year olds is the way to go.”

    What if a 16-year-old murders or rapes someone? Should they be “criminalised” for that?

  163. Dr Jim says:

    Normal service is resumed this Thursday 12 noon for FM questions according to BBC scheduling

    That’ll be comical when hostilities break out again after about a minute and a half of consensus

  164. The Isolator says:


    Careful now or you’ll have Dr Ew along any minute now berating us puritanical SNP types lol.

    Ask your Green supporting friends why if they are an autonomous party that little shitehawk Harvie insisted on running to the defence of Lucas when she voted AGAINST FFA for Scotland at Westmonster?

    Power tripping weasels.

  165. pete the camera says:

    @Andrew McLean says:
    17 May, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    “Nicola is First Minister, the sun is shining and the birds are tweeting again!
    5 votes for Willie Rennie embarrassing no other party would lend him some support 63 votes for Nicola Sturgeon, but abstentions, no opinion the rest? shameful!”

    What no list vote for Willie to fall back on

  166. ronnie anderson says:

    There are some Counrty’s in the world where a pointed finger is a Insult Mr Kelly, an I wish’d you were in wan o thaim,as your a INSULT to INTELLEGENCE.

  167. call me dave says:

    The election of the FM it is a wee bit of formalisation, a bureaucratic pantomime, it’s just a parliamentary procedure to kick off the start of the politicking.

    Some words are spoken by opposition leaders setting out their various stalls and damming the FM to be with oblique criticism if they can fit it in and some feigned praise with references to be a good and honest upholders of the parliament and it’s principles. 🙂

    Someone has to draw the sacrificial straw on these occassions and Wullie is an ideal candidate and played his part weel enough.

    When it does kick off for real the masks will slip and the snarling, the accusations and back biting shall commence never fear.

    It’s just setting the scene… 🙂

  168. heedtracker says:

    as long as the greens abstain, nicola has a majority
    whats the problem?

    You know the problem SC and its a massive one. Scottish Green’s aren’t Green and they aren’t elected and they now hold the future of Scotland in their silly little handies.

    They’re a party of nimbies and chancers and its all worked out rather well. Take a bow second vote boosting tory BBC led media.

  169. K1 says:

    I found and I’m now watching the ‘show’ on iplayer.

  170. Dr Jim says:


    I don’t normally reply to stuff that often but you’re not getting away with that, for months you and others have been banging away “Green good” everybody else “Wrong” they’re on our side, you said, they’re the good guys, you said, they’re a pro Indy party, you said

    Well now that they’ve abstained on selection of the FM you said they supported, that’s OK you say

    Well no, it’s bloody well not, it’s a clear signal they just sent out that they in fact DON’T support the election of the FM exactly in the same way as Labour and the Tories did, there wasn’t any option in the ballot available for against that’s why the opposition choose abstention rather than FOR

    For the past couple of years everybody has complained about the way Labour have cynically used abstentions to bugger up everything the SNP and Scotland have tried to achieve

    Now you say but it’s OK for the Greens to employ the same slimy tactics as Labour because they say they’re on our side, well like I’ve said before, I’d rather have the damn Tories on my side at least with them you see the lies coming

  171. Dan Huil says:

    The pro-indy public will take note. If the Greens vote against the SNP on anything it will severely harm the Greens in any future election.

  172. Big jock says:

    If the Greens vote to abolish the sectarian law. Then shame on them. They are simply playing party politics like the rest of the unionist haters.

    80% public suppport, Sectarianism reduced to lowest level in 40 years. So if 5% of the population are cocaine users and they object to class A drugs enforcement. Does that mean the Cons and Slabour will try and legalise it?

  173. Capella says:

    @ K1
    The whole hour is on the Scottish Parliament TV site.

    I think anyone can stand and all can vote but obviously, if each party had a candidate and each voted for their candidate then we would end up with Nicola anyway with 63 votes.

    Of course, the Unionists could all have voted for Willie Rennie but that really wouldn’t go down too well with the voters.

    In Westminster they don’t vote. The leader of the winning party becomes the Prime Minister (usually).

  174. Petra says:

    A wee reminder to the person who seems to think that it’s acceptable to sing sectarian songs known to offend individuals of another religion and to stir up trouble to the point of physical violence or even death. Then there’s the link to domestic abuse. No matter, eh?

    No it’s not acceptable just as it’s not acceptable to make racist or homophobic comments far less for hundreds or thousands of people to sing racist or homophobic songs in a public place (or at home where it can be heard by others). What if instead of Catholic versus Protestant they ganged up and decided to sing Christian versus Muslim songs. That would be alright by you? And of course these events should be suitable for women and children to attend. Bazookas?

    Yeah Valerie it’s the first time I’ve ever seen Nicola looking pretty down …. and supposed to be one of the best days of her life. They’ll no doubt try to drag her down …. United at every turn.

    Thanks for the wee boost Tinto Chiel x

  175. heedtracker says:

    Patrick Harvie ?@patrickharvie 34m34 minutes ago
    Slightly amazed by the number of SNP supporters tweeting today who are angry that other political parties don’t vote for them.

    And so it begins. What will screw us the most Green out of a) vote No Sturgeon b) vote Aye Sturgeon c) abstain?

    Because you see, we’re the Greens and we’re here to shake up Scotland, oh yes. Independence is probably on the Green to do list somewhere or other.

    Are the speeches recorded for youtube?

  176. Kenny says:

    Re Harvie and the Greens. I did not catch the events today in Holyrood.

    But I think he should be careful, because I think if the Greens start messing around, sticking it to the SNP rather than the real enemies of the Scottish people (the Blue Tories and their Red and Yellow Pawns), I could imagine it being quite possible that Finnie returns to the SNP fold and Wightman could maybe become an independent or even SNP.

    Finnie is not a natural Green. He was in the SNP, but left over the NATO issue. He is a very reasonable person and certainly wants the very best for Scotland (via independence).

    63 + 6 could very easily become 65 + 4. That would have dire consequences for the Greens, because that would put them back in last place behind the Yellow Pawns.

    And Harvie could ruin his chances of ever standing in Glasgow again on a Green label if he votes to abolish an act attempting to tackle an issue which has been a blight on Yes City Glasgow every bit as much as Thatcherism was.*

    * Some may disagree, but it is something which the city inflicts on itself, as opposed to the policy by the government of a foreign country.

  177. gerry parker says:

    Might drop a line to the new Presiding Officer.

    Can’t have MSP,s behaving like this surely?

  178. AHuraMazda says:

    Scunterbunnet: “We need laws like OBFA because of the collateral damage outside the ground.”

    Yeah, and we have a law. It hasn’t stopped the genocidal songs or the wife-beatings. There’s only so much you can do with the lumpen-proles…

    It probably costs about £1000 per year to support a football team once you add the costs of attendance, lunch, strips, etc. Then there’s all the wasted time and effort.

    You could so something good with all that, start a business, take part in the human race, buy an iMac, learn something.

  179. old dearie says:

    Having a few days in Ullapool at the fabulous Ceilidh Place and just catching up. Glad the FM election is over successfully. Can’t believe Willie Rennie stood. It’s going to be a very different parliament. The National available here in the lounge and I notice various people reading it for the first time judging by their comments. Mostly positive.

    Had the chance to hear WGD last Friday in Corstorphine. Interestingly he says he doesn’t mix with other journalists much at all. I raised the point that since we cannot rely on MSM it seems to me it’s very important that any Independence spokesperson is well briefed. They will only get 1 short chance per topic during discussions on BBC. I find myself screaming things at the TV when chances are missed to correct things or challenge with facts. I hope our SNP politicians read WOS. For appearances on QT it’s not too hard to work out what the questions are going to be eg at Aberdeen fishing, oil and gas, named person etc. Use the collective wisdom and research done by folk like Rev, WGD and the other James Kelly to combat the lies.

  180. Big Jock says:

    Kenny correct- Yes city the fulcrum of sectarianism. Returned wall to wall constituancy SNP MSP’s!

    So if the population of the city the law generally effects hate the bill so much. Why did they thump Slabour?

    Answers on a postcard to James Kelly.

    As for Harvie. He is getting far to big for his tiny boots. The greens are a bit player on this journey to independence, and they can be tossed away like a worn out coat. It’s their choice. I think independence is second to the environment and other woolly jumper issues to them.

  181. Jamesy says:

    All this just in time for the return of the Uber poison that is SEVCO, ye couldnae make it up

  182. Big Jock says:

    Just a thought. Was Nicola a bit down about Hosie and MacNeil. It’s a private matter, but the press slaughter the SNP for dropping a crisp packet in public never mind two affairs. Hosie is a senior politicion married to a cabinet minister!

    Whatever way you look at this it was very stupid.

  183. Vambomarbeleye says:

    What I know about football would not fill a postage stamp. I have how ever played at Wembley and many other football grounds. In the band at half time. Only played good tunes.

  184. Alan says:

    Off topic but hilarious moralising on the topic of free speech in the context of prior posts here on our favorite author of wizardry books and a certain Mr. Spanner: JK Rowling defends Donald Trump’s right to be ‘offensive and bigoted at Pen America awards ceremony.

  185. heedtracker says:

    SLabour Edinburgh’s not saying much at all about it. Silly old Dunc’s a hoot though. Sturgeon stamping down on dissent is great end of era stuff.

    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 3h3 hours ago
    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted newsdirect
    Sounds like the sort of language her predecessor used before a five-year parliament of stamping down on dissent.

    Duncan Hothersall added,
    newsdirect @newsdirect
    The prospective FM says there will be “no limit” to her ambition for Scotland, with her door always open to MSPs from across the chamber
    1 retweet 2 likes

    Says Dunc, red tory unionists in Edinburgh gloat over divorce. Such a lovely crowd, the yoons of Edinburgh

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 10h10 hours ago
    On the SNP Elite: “These 2 have behaved with all the decorum of a coach party in a Carry On film arriving at a pub.”

  186. schrodingers cat says:

    Take a bow second vote boosting tory BBC led media.

    except in fife and mid scotland, had the green, rise and solidarity voters all voted snp on the list, labour would have won the 7th seat, not the greens

    your maths for this region dont add up?

    dr Jim, goodness me,
    you’re not getting away with that, (Eh? you mean like first offence, ill probably get away with crucifiction?)
    for months you and others have been banging away “Green good” everybody else “Wrong”

    no i have been encouraging people to vote snp1&green2 in fife and mid scotland and snp1&2 in south and highlands. and I was right.
    they’re on our side, you said, they’re the good guys, (never said that about ross greer) you said, they’re a pro Indy party, you said…

    blood is fair pouring outta my keyboard…
    they are pro indy
    they will campaign in indyref2, which may be sooner that you think

    I said better a green than slab and Im right about that too. had the unionists had the majority today, do you think they would have abstained? save your invective for the red and blue tories.

    I am no party, i say what i believe is best for the yes movement. party politics needs to take a back seat.
    YES2 is comming

  187. geeo says:

    Was not able to watch the vote on FM today, but to be honest, it is a formality so may not have bothered anyway.

    It is a tradition for other parties to abstain, so i do not really understand the level of vitriol against Harvie rather than Rennie, who stood against Nicola, in the full knowledge of the tradition of abstaining.

    There will be plenty real issues to judge Harvie and the Greens on, this is 100% NOT one of them.

    I would be stunned if the Greens vote to repeal the OBFA, rather than cut a deal with the SNP to keep it, and wrong foot the overly cocky tory scumbags, in particular.

    If that were to happen, it would make the above Greens hatefest from some people, look pretty petty.

    If the Greens vote with the tory led unionist collective, the Greens almost certainly lose any relevence for the next 5 years.

    Public opinion put the SNP in goverment by a country mile, if you are completely against the SNP on everything, then you are also against public opinion in Scotland.

    Do the Greens want to be on the wrong side of public opinion for cheap political gerrymandering on an issue that has MASSIVE public support, and are unlikely to forget who did what in this moment ?

    I cannot see that personally, and risk a face full of egg for saying it, but i smell an SNP/Green ambush on the unionists here.

    Surely worth doing to see James Kelly’s wee stunned face…?

  188. Macart says:


    Is that a direct quote from Harvie’s twitter line?

  189. Gonnajustsayaye says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell
    My point still stands the Act does not mention sectarian . It gives definitions of what my might be constituted as offensive . Again my points still stands the opinion poll question was misleading as the Act is concerned with offensive behaviour. You are a selective in quoting the Act. you should have quoted the whole section 2 not just part of it.

    The behaviour is—

    (a)expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, a group of persons based on their membership (or presumed membership) of—

    (i)a religious group,

    (ii)a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation,

    (iii)a group defined by reference to a thing mentioned in subsection (4),

    (b)expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, an individual based on the individual’s membership (or presumed membership) of a group mentioned in any of sub-paragraphs (i) to (iii) of paragraph (a),

    (c)behaviour that is motivated (wholly or partly) by hatred of a group mentioned in any of those sub-paragraphs,

    (d)behaviour that is threatening, or

    (e)other behaviour that a reasonable person would be likely to consider offensive.

    Section e is a catch all ruling . I have got e mails between myself and a Chief Inspector , following a complaint I made regarding a group Hearts fans singing “who shagged all the Boys” . Apparently according to Police Scotland they were unsure wether it was a offensive behaviour and were seeking clarification from the Lord Advocate. I know of another incident when a complaint was made regarding Aberdeen fans singing similiar songs by a fan .This resulted in a meeting with Celtic football club and the club seeking clarification from Police Scotland.This is on going

    Irish republican songs have no place at a sporting event As I always say Bobby Sands aint scored a goal for Celtic. I may find it inappropriate at football but illegal but an offence under law no way . The conflict in the North of Ireland was not black and white it was grey. Yes republicans committed atrocities but so did the British security forces and state. We all know that the MSM lied and told half truths to us during the referendum. So you really think they were telling us the truth what happened in the North of Ireland during the troubles.

    That is the problem with the act. You may find republican songs offensive but it is a valid political opinion. The facts are the act in operation. You can sing about child abuse , you can call the referee a bastard , you can sing about people from Glasgow living in slums are raking middens for food thats banter but songs about Irish republicanism are banned.
    When valid points are made by the judicary academics every other political party , it gets shouted down. The act is a dogs dinner and needs reviewed

  190. schrodingers cat says:

    Well no, it’s bloody well not, it’s a clear signal they just sent out that they in fact DON’T support the election of the FM exactly in the same way as Labour and the Tories did,

    nope, by abstaining they ensured nicola and snp majority
    long may it continue

  191. cearc says:

    old dearie,

    Sorry about the weather for your visit. Do you want to meet up for a coffee or lunch?

  192. Robert Peffers says:

    @Alison says: 17 May, 2016 at 10:08 am:

    ” … I’m an SNP member and supporter but …

    Utter pish!

    I’m 80 next birthday and as a wee schoolboy supporter was policed by Glasgow’s finest mounted on horseback at almost every match attended anywhere in the Greater Glasgow areas.

    Particularly so at Hampden Park, Celtic Park and Ibrox.

    It those days the football grounds actually did have, big crowds. Not the much smaller attendances customer these days.

    Strange then that you blame a recent years Holyrood Law, which if memory is correct, was supported by every Holyrood party.

    I note that the most vociferous voices raised against the law all seem to owe some loyalty to either Rangers or Celtic teams. I wonder why that would be?

    Let me put it this way. If the Holyrood opposition parties succeed in having this legislation abolished then the likely rise in a return to the bad old days of domestic abuse concurrent with Auld Firm games will return to the old dreadful figures.

    The violence on match days that made the law change desirable will return and the most likely people to bear the brunt of the public’s disgust will be the prima Donnas who now want to beat the SNP with any stick they can dream up.

    The law may need adjustment but the figures show it has done what it was designed to do but has not yet wiped sectarianism and abuse from Scottish football.

    May I suggest that any teams support found to still use sectarian abuse be forced to play all their games behind closed doors.

  193. Robert Graham says:

    I really hope Nicola Sturgeon sticks it right up these b/stds , the f/kn cheek of these arse wipes to think they can call the shots when most of the f/ krs sneaked in the back door they must think we have collective bloody amnesia , I hops she reminds them at every opertunity when these excuses for MSPs stand up and start the usual pish that the electorate did not in fact vote for them .
    Sorry a bit off topic but the sight of that dancing clown Rennie and his irelivent bloody party who’s only MP was branded a liar in court and still is being paid by us mugs bloody disgrace .

  194. geeo says:

    If all those politicians think that bilious sectarianism at football is somehow a ‘right’, then why are they not attacking UEFA ?

    After all, when football supporters bring their sectarian songbook to the UEFA ran tournaments (Champions League and Europa League) their club gets fined heavily and threatened with being banned from future european competitions ?

    If their wee songs are ‘harmless’, why is that action taken ?

    Inciting hate, murder and violence at a football match is, in the eyes of unionist politicians, more acceptable that smoking indoors, for example.

    Says it all really.

  195. maxi says:

    I was woken up in the early hours of Saturday with a chorus of
    “Hello, Hello,no surrender,billy boys and fenian blood”. Two vacuous morons who could hardly stand ,shouting in the calm peaceful night air.
    What he f**k is wrong with these people who let a force make them believe that they are a different kind of Scot to the rest of society.We must sort this out for our families and kids future.

  196. Tam Jardine says:

    So none of the other msps were happy to endorse the selection of the overwhelming choice of the Scottish people as to who is our First Minister?

    They should dock them a day’s wages – petulant bastards. How truly pathetic. The Greek term hubris seems appropriate- defiance of the gods (or in this case the electorate). Let’s see how this plays out.

  197. dakk says:

    Kelly like most of what’s left of Slab is a die-hard Unionist who as we know will always work to undermine Scotland, so no surprise there.

    I was minded to cut the Greens some slack in the hope they might do what is best for Scotland.

    That hope is already looking forlorn as they are aligning with Unionists on both OBFA and SNP plans to cut APD.

    This would be a blow to growing Scotlands economy and continue forcing Scots to take extra flights to foreign hub airports(nothing Green about that).

    Though the proof will be in how they vote,it does look like they may work against Scotland’s best intetests as political opportunists.

  198. AhuraMazda says:

    geeo: If the Greens were to give support to OBFA, “it would make the above Greens hatefest from some people, look pretty petty.”

    The Greens aren’t important enough to be hated. They always get more attention than they deserve and the breakdown of seats in Parliament seems to suggest they have a pivotal role to play, but don’t count on that.

    There’s this myth going around that we are going to find out what the Greens are made of pretty soon, on OBFA or on independence or some other thing.

    There’s scope for picking up votes on OBFA elsewhere and with a trivial matter like that it is likely that the parties would hammer out some sort of cross-party compromise. It’s no big deal to anybody.

    We aren’t going to have another referendum for 5 years so I don’t think they Greens are going to be tested on that. Brexit isn’t going to happen.

    The next 5 years are probably going to be the most boring 5 years in the history of Scottish devolution. There’s nothing on the horizon once you remove the Brexit thing.

    I actually can’t think of one major plank of SNP policy that interests me never mind excites. Can anyone?

  199. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Valerie it’s the first time I’ve ever seen Nicola looking pretty down …. and supposed to be one of the best days of her life. They’ll no doubt try to drag her down …. United at every turn.”

    Petra, a phrase of Iain Crichton Smith’s comes to mind, “An empress surrounded by prairie dogs”. Give them no heed. The FM will sort out Tank Girl and her creepy cohorts.

    You and Valerie are usually two of our toughest troopers, and I’m sure you’ll feel better tomorrow. A lot of people invested so much time working for a majority in the last few months that this less than ideal situation is a bit deflating but the real game hasn’t started yet.

    BTW: Does James Kelly realise he’s been set up by the Tories yet?

  200. Dr Jim says:

    More crap from the new abstention party by abstaining they did something good, well by that logic you might as well invite Ian Murray to join the colouring in party he’s a master at doing good and claiming credit by abstaining

    And there’s no point in trying the “It’s traditional” route because it’s not, when Jack McConnell was elected others voted for him

    Try all day and into the next if you like, you were warned about what Harvie would do and just like Labour put your fingers in your ears and went Na Na Na

    If the new abstention colouring in party is going to continue in this vein what’s their purpose, what are they for

    Professor Snape is at this moment on Twitter crowing about his new found power over the SNP even nasty Ruth never went that far

    Although he is going to find that short lived according to my source Murphy the spy
    And I’m done with any more of this Sillyness now

  201. schrodingers cat says:

    re the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth wrt the greens abstaining..
    this will be the greens policy throughout this parliament, we have 5 more years of this, you guys will be in bits by then

  202. AhuraMazda says:

    maxi, did you tell them to stfu?

  203. Hamish McTavish says:

    @Tinto Chiel 5.59pm

    James Kelly hasn’t a clue. He thinks Ruthie’s lot are a local branch of the SLab party. He’ll quite happily take direction from them because their branch is bigger than his.

  204. carjamtic says:

    Psychopath’s Rejoice

    I have no doubt,when beside flowers,the shirts are laid out on the ground or to tied to the railings,in tribute to a young one,who was in the wrong place at the wrong time,the faux outrage and crocodile tears of the Orange Fenians will flow.

    Red/Blue Tories, make me sick to my stomach.

  205. Capella says:

    @ Dr Jim
    I think when Jack McConnell stood in 2001 the other parties also stood a candidate so they all voted – for their own candidate. No abstentions.

    Today all the parties could have put up a candidate and voted for them. Guess what – Nicola would have got 63 votes, Ruth 31, Kezia 23, Willie Rennie 5 and Patrick Harvie 6. Result? Nicola becomes 1st Minister.

    Or, the Unionist Parties could all have voted for Willie Rennie, 59 votes, and Nicola would still win.

    So to cut a long process short, the two candidates contested and the rest abstained. Nicola won.

  206. Robert Peffers says:

    Don’t know if anyone else noticed a couple of other liars at Holyrood on Parliament TV today. Kezia, in her pre-election of FM speech, “The SNP do not have a majority … “.

    Oh! Yes they do have a majority, Kezia, over each of the opposition parties. They just do not have an overall majority over the combined opposition parties.

    The fact that they are, in Westminster terms, supposed to oppose each other means they cannot be sticking to their UK party policies if they act together at Holyrood.

    Obviously at least some of them must compromise their policies if they always side with each other against every SNP motion at Holyrood. Scots are now very much more politically aware and now notice such things.

    Then along comes wee Green Patrick and he also trots out the lie that the SNP do not have a majority. Does he also imagine we voters don’t know the difference between not having an overall majority and having a majority of the votes in relation to each opposition party?

    I used to have a lot of respect for Patrick Harvey but of recent times he seems set upon destroying the respect he could once command. Not a smart move for a quite small minority party – now is it?

  207. HandandShrimp says:

    I am not sure what the issue with the Greens abstaining on the leadership vote is about.

    The moment the Greens abstain the SNP have a majority.

    Abstaining is all that the SNP need from the Greens to support the current Scottish Government. On issues that matter to them I am sure they will vote with the SNP.

  208. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Anent Wee Willie Winkie standing against Nicola for First Minister.
    You might have thought, after all the support Willie and his gang gave the Tories in Better Together, and, the way the Lib-Dems were in government with the Tories for so long, Buffalo Gal and her gang might have vote for him.
    But no, Better Together only goes so far with the Tories. For as long as they are top dogs.

  209. schrodingers cat says:


    having an euref bang in the middle of the silly season should be fun

    we should run a book to see who is the 1st to start howling at the moon

    re-greens, faux indignation appears to be the new black

  210. galamcennalath says:

    I’d prefer to see the Greens abstain than ever vote with the Unionists who never have Scotland’s best interests at heart. A bit harsh on the Unionists? Well, where is the evidence they have ever put Scotland first on any topic?

    The Green’s membership has gone up six fold (is it?) since IndyRef. Why have all these people joined? To overturn offensive behaviour legislation for political point scoring? I think not. Perhaps a hint is in the timing of when the sign up of new members came.

    Both the SNP and Greens have been massively expanded by people who put Scotland first. They will have differences of opinions about exactly what that means. However, I can’t see the membership of either party sharing much ground with the Unionists!

    The Scottish Government will only ever be defeated if the Greens do side with the combined Unionists. Green MSPs need to think long and hard about where they stand. Not to put the point too strongly, their continued existence (as does the SNP’s) probably relies on them opposing the Union, London and the local representatives of the Unionists parties in most circumstances.

    Exceptions always occur, but with the recent record of rainbow Tories, they should be rare!

  211. Dr Jim says:


    The Liberal Democrats voted for Jack McConnell

  212. K1 says:

    But why not just vote For the FM, I see what people are saying about how the abstention gives them the majority, 63 v’s 59 but if there had been no abstention then it would be 69 v’s 59. What’s the point of the abstention in this particular vote for the FM?

    Is it just a ‘political point’ that PHarvie is making or some ‘statement’ he is making that the Greens are not voting ‘with’ the Unionists?

    This could do with a little clarification. Can someone twitter him that question?

    It’s the motivation I am interested in, I can’t make up my mind whether they’ve done a crap thing or a principled thing here without knowing for sure ‘why’ they abstained, help me out folks 😉

  213. Fireproofjim says:

    Today Orkney are having a celebration of Norway’s Independence Day.
    Funny people. Celebrating the Independence of Norway but voting against the same thing for their own country and not kicking out their liar MP, but increasing the vote for their useless Liberal MSPs.

  214. Hamish100 says:

    Maybe if the lieboour tory green vote against the snp NS should call a general election.

    SNP would win as the lies of the BBC/stv , Sunday Herald, National, Record that you should vote snp then Green or others will be turned on its head. SNP 1&2
    Lets wait however for the EU referendum and watch the tories implode, Labour ousting Corbyn by Xmas.

  215. Capella says:

    @ Dr Jim
    Yes I know. The LibDems went into coalition with Labour. Jack McConnell became First Minister and Jim Wallace Deputy.
    Nicola Sturgeon had already ruled out a coalition.

  216. Farage been on BBC saying if there is a narrow vote to remain in the EU. That the tories of the brexit campaign might seek to have a second referendum.

    Now who would have thunk that?

    It would be good to see their hypocrisy when they critisise SNP/Yes for wanting a 2nd referendum.

  217. John H. says:

    When I was a teenager, some friends and I attended an old firm game. It was the first and last time I did. We were a mixed bunch, both catholic and protestant. A couple of the celtic supporters wore their team colours.

    We left early to avoid any trouble (no chance), and were walking down the street when a bunch of Rangers supporters appeared behind us and starting throwing bottles at us. We ran for our lives and were lucky to get away.

    I’m not getting at Rangers supporters particularly. I’m sure it could have been the other side just as easily. Now we have supposedly intelligent people who want to bring those days back.

  218. Luigi says:

    Yoons go for the Sturgeon look:

    Has anyone else noticed how Ruth and Kezia are turning into Nicola Lookalikes? Smart haircuts and lovely clothes. 🙂 Those fancy, ladylike outfits winae last, methinks – they just don’t look comfortable in them. They may have been told by their advisers to tart up a bit to appear more feminine, but I don’t think it will last.

    Give it a couple of weeks and they will both be back in trouser suits. Not that that is a bad thing per se: It’s just weird that they have both been advised to mimic Nicola and wear outfits they don’t; look comfortable in. 🙂

  219. Tinto Chiel says:

    Fireproofjim @6.56.

    An excellent point, but they believe a Nordic narrative not convincingly borne out by DNA. They seem to be as much Pictish as horny-helmeted Vikings.

    In other words, they should be as Yes as Dundee…..

    It’s a funny old game, Saint.

  220. Luigi says:

    John H. says:

    17 May, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    When I was a teenager, some friends and I attended an old firm game. It was the first and last time I did. We were a mixed bunch, both catholic and protestant. A couple of the celtic supporters wore their team colours.

    We left early to avoid any trouble (no chance), and were walking down the street when a bunch of Rangers supporters appeared behind us and starting throwing bottles at us. We ran for our lives and were lucky to get away.

    I’m not getting at Rangers supporters particularly. I’m sure it could have been the other side just as easily. Now we have supposedly intelligent people who want to bring those days back.

    Sigh. Sounds so familiar and brings back a few nasty memories. Are there any football fans here (including other Rangers fans) who have not experienced being chased by a mob of drunken Rangers fans?

    You haven’t lived. 🙂

  221. The Unionist parties want blood on the streets in the pubs and in houses,

    which in turn puts pressure on the Scottish NHS(especially waiting times at A&E) and Police Scotland,

    which the Unionist parties can use as a stick against the SNP,

    the Unionist parties,led by Dugdale,The Ruthfuhrer,and whatshisname,would love to see Scotland destroyed at all levels just to hurt Nicola and the SNP,

    Nicola has a mandate/obligation to protect Scotland`s citizens from harm,whether external or internal.

  222. Jamie says:

    Not to defend James Kelly, but I believe he is actually that stupid. Having seen Scottish Labour lie more and more idiotically over the years, I’m starting to think that they’ve got to the point where they believe their own preposterous fantasies. It’s ironic that they accuse us nats of being a deluded cult; in fact it’s a description that fits SLab far better. They’re so angry at losing, and so denuded by the loss of their, ahem, ‘talent’ in recent elections, that they’re now just a flock of mental incompetents in a sort of collective mass delusion in which their lies are reality and it’s the voters’ fault for not seeing it.

    Or perhaps I’m attributing too much humanity to them.

  223. Andrew McLean says:


    Why don’t you take your banter and shove it up your arse!
    You’re talking about a game a sport, what the fuck has anything you said about Ireland have any meaning how the ball curves when kicked!

    Get a life!

  224. heedtracker says:

    we should run a book to see who is the 1st to start howling at the moon

    re-greens, faux indignation appears to be the new black

    Green’s arent any different from any other political party. They’re using everyone’s Green concerns to get some power and they’re using Scottish independence to get some more power.

    Green’s abstained to appeal to the tory yoon media because they’re essential tory. “Nicol doesn’t own Holyrood” headline style

    Harvie wants rid of OBFA but maybe not, just change it a bit.

    Harvie wants APD tax kept but maybe not, just tax frequent flyers, that’ll save the planet. Who are the frequent flyers Patrick? eh…

    And that’s just this week.

    Watch out Scotland, youre about to get a whole load of Green bullshit dumped on you. Just ask everyone in the north east of their Scotland region.

    You’re welcome schrodingers cat:D

  225. Rock says:

    “James Kelly is a liar”

    What a surprise.

  226. Thepnr says:


    It is true that the legal document or bill itself does not explicitly use the words sectarian or sectarianism in it’s legal gobbledook. The reason being I understand is that “sectarian” has not been yet defined in Scot’s Law. Maybe that is one thing that needs amending?

    However the accompanying “Explanatory Notes” to the bill mention these words a total of 8 times. I believe these notes that were available to the public and all MSP’s make it perfectly clear that the bills primary objective was to tackle the issue of sectarianism in football. An issue I have to agree should be dealt with.

    The main item that the Rev replied to in an earlier post is explained in point 7 below

    “7. Subsection (2) lists the five kinds of behaviour which trigger the offence at subsection (1). These are:”

    “(a) Expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, a group of persons based on their membership (or presumed membership) of a religious group, a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation, or group defined by reference to a characteristic listed in subsection (4), for example, by engaging in sectarian chanting or singing.”

    “(e) Other behaviour that a reasonable person would be likely to consider offensive –
    this would include, but is not limited to, sectarian songs or chants.”

    “49. Crucially, however, the provisions in this Bill are only one part of a much wider programme, building on much existing work, that will be necessary to deliver the outcomes sought.

    This wider programme relates to work to tackle sectarianism, violence reduction and alcohol misuse. These programmes of work are long standing with established funding
    mechanisms. This is intended to justify an assumption that, while there may be some refocusing and reprioritisation on the issues we are seeking to tackle through this Bill, they are in fact not
    new and generally can be tackled through established means.”

    This post is long enough already but you can also find references to sectarianism in Sec. 51, 62, 64 and 70 some of which if you are interested provide more concrete examples of sectarianism in real life. The issue this bill aims to deal with.

  227. HandandShrimp says:

    schrodingers cat

    Aye although I am toiling to generate any great interest in the EU vote. That said, watching them re-run the same Project Fear stories has made me laugh out loud several times.

    I can’t get into the Greenbad thing. 5 years is a long time in politics. I will reserve my judgement for the whole piece and see where things stand in 2021. The seat numbers are what the seat numbers are. We work with what we have.

  228. Kevin Evans says:

    I hate to “labour” the point – is that a pun.

    But I spoke about this on the threat a few days ago concerning list msp’s and when I suggested if a msp who stands in his constituency gets below 30% of the votes in a constituency it should bar them immediately from the list back door option I was criticised and spoke down to with this idea.

    Am happy now to accept any withdraws from posters who were so fast to dismiss my original idea.

    It would mean fools like this twat couldn’t pollute holyrood just because he knows where the skeletons are buried.

  229. Dr Jim says:

    On the appointment of Jack McConnell

    He received 70 votes on election to FM The Lib Dems voted for him as FM nothing to do with coalitions
    In that election to FM there were NO spoiled ballot papers and NO abstentions and the Presiding officer was George Reid

    I’m merely making the point that voting for something or voting against something, is something, otherwise what’s the point of being there, there was no law or bill on which to NOT make your mind up or have something amended
    it was a free vote, not party political

    To argue that it all worked out all right is hardly the point when one of the parties who abstained plastered everywhere they could with posters claiming the SNP supported them, and anyone who saw those posters would have been certainly convinced that’s what they meant if they weren’t clued up to Mr Harvies shenanigans

    Anyone who hasn’t seen those election posters, you will now because there are disgruntled people all over the Internet putting them up

    Patrick Harvie says; “I’m amazed at some SNP voters surprise at people not voting for them and voting for other parties”

    Definitely not arrogant then

  230. Robert Peffers says:

    @Macart says: 17 May, 2016 at 2:14 pm:

    “Y’know to have everyone endorse Wullie and have him answer FMQs?”

    I had thoughts very much along those lines too, Macart.

    Only my conclusion was that he wouldn’t last more than 20 minutes and would be replaced.

    Another thought was inspired by the Macintosh ruling to allow the use of Wi-Fi gear in the chamber. Perhaps it might result in a lot less idiotic stuff being aired before the public on Holyrood TV.

    The likes of Kelly might then be far too, Err!, “mentally stimulated”, playing Candy Crush to be bothered with political matters.

  231. heedtracker says:

    I can’t get into the Greenbad thing.

    You probably had to be there when a Green popped up and blocked Trump in Balmedie, Aberdeen. Out of the blue he swooped, ever so important and serious. Save the dudes! came the Green cry.

    And in doing so, this Green saviour opened an enormous BBC led shit storm of SNP bad, independence bad and Salmond bad, which was also spectacular to watch.

    Why that one Trump golf got the Green block, we’ll never know, as they’ve waved through all kinds of green belt develops that far more hideous than anything Trump Golf could do.

    It got the Green party into the tory media spot light though, and fired. Even so.

  232. Rock says:

    schrodingers cat,

    “as long as the greens abstain, nicola has a majority
    whats the problem?”

    The problem is Patrick Harvie and his Green hypocrites putting their money where their mouths are.

    They were elected by posing themselves as “pro independence”, mainly to dupe SNP voters into giving their list votes to them.

    There is no reason why these “pro independence” MSPs should not have endorsed Nicola as FM.

    I wonder what the “pro independence” The National will have to say about this.

  233. Andrew McLean says:

    I don’t do Twitter, anyhow the Scottish Parliament rules state that if you agreed you vote yes, if you disagree you vote no, if you have no opinion you abstain.
    In what other professional walk of life can you get paid for not having an opinion, doctors don’t abstain when you ask them about a problem, lawyers can wait to give you an opinion, rarely free, dentists always give you their opinion that it will only hurt a little, even traffic wardens have an opinion on how crap my parking skills are, but bloody politicians can sit on their well cushioned bums and abstain!

  234. heedtracker says:

    Save the dunes! came the Green cry.

    Sorry I have a cold.

  235. Andrew McLean says:

    Rock ffs what is it with you and the bloody National, you sound like a jilted lover!

  236. Valerie says:

    I’m not liking the tone of Harvie and Greer tweets, both very belligerent, don’t give a toss about SNP supporters, and treating us as bait

    Directly having a go at Peter A Bell, like they are two lads on the razz. I’m sure Peter will have his own say.

    Harvie missed a huge opportunity to woo SNP, put a marker down, but we got the finger.

  237. Thepnr says:

    I just can’t fathom out those that just don’t get the “divide and conquer” narative used by Unionists.

    Or is the case that they may believe the SNP will at some time in the future command 55% or so of Scotlands voters and hence making anyone else who may support a different party but is a Yes supporter irrelevant?

    I’m much more of the type that will take Yes votes from where ever we can get them, all the Unionist party supporters included. Does anyone remember Nicola at the SNP conference in Aberdeen appealing directly to Labour supporters?

    Of course she did because it made sense. She knew encouraging Labour supporters to vote Yes made sense, same for me goes for supporters of any party.

    In fact I believe that up to 18% of SNP voters voted against Independence or didn’t vote at all. If that’s even remotely true it may be then that the SNP better get their support up to 70% or so before even considering another referendum if they do not have the support of those that STILL vote for other parties.

    Independence does not belong to the SNP, they are undoubtably the leaders and will decide the when and the policy and tactics. They are though not owners of the next referendum or how the vote will go. They/We will need all the help we can get.

    Divide and Conquer! So far 1-0 to the Tory government, their media lackies and Unionists in general.

    I do really believe that the Yes support needs all the help it can get, the SSP made a mistake with RISE and were punished, if the Greens do the same then they too will be punished.

    We have a long parliamentary session to get through, don’t presume guilt before the trial has even started. That just encourages our detractors.

  238. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 17 May, 2016 at 3:23 pm:

    “Nukes are good, it must true. How’s about Scottish Green’s going after nuke loving toryboy world in Scotland?”

    Naw! Heedtracker, That report can’t be true. Every Green knows that yon nuclear stuff is a really, really cheap and very, very clean source of electricity. Its that coal, gas and diesel that cause all the bother in our back yards.

    We needn’t bother about the mining, milling and processing of the stuff nor the big slag heaps of soluble heavy metal residues that remain radioactive.

    Anyway who bloody cares about the freeing of Radon gas and such like as none of it is in our back yard.

    Looks like a deal of it is in California’s backyard, though, according to that report.

  239. sandycraig says:

    Dr Jim @ 7.51

    ” voting for something or voting against something is still a vote “, abstention is nothing and a cowards way out.

    The great Adam Smith, fae Kirkcaldy ye ken, once said
    ” a decision to make no decision, is still a decision “.

    Therefore things stay the same. But in this context of an election of a FM I’m buggered if I know how these people sleep at night. No scruples, no morals.

  240. Valerie says:

    In other news, the Westminster group, has just ‘re elected Angus as their group leader at their AGM.

  241. Robert Peffers says:

    @schrodingers cat says: 17 May, 2016 at 3:38 pm:

    ” … as long as the greens abstain, nicola has a majority, whats the problem?

    Patrick Harvey!

  242. Cash_x says:

    Jist wait til they greens try tae push through their ‘Wind-powered draught exluders for every Scot’ Bill..then we’ll see fa’s callin’ the shots eh?

  243. Iain says:

    Andrew Mclean – re James Kelly being a Chartered Accountant – he isn’t. He has a certificate from the Chartered Institute of Management Accountancy, a lesser qualification from a less prestigious body than the Institute of Chartered Accountants, which alone can award the qualification of Chartered Accountant. However, he seems quite happy to pass himself off as one – his Wiki description has specifically stated that he is a chartered accountant for years, and he has made no effort to correct it.

  244. yesindyref2 says:

    Am I right, there are people complaining the Greens abstained on the vote for First Minister? From 2011:

    MSPs backed Mr Salmond’s appointment as first minister, which requires final approval from the Queen, by 68 votes to zero, with 57 abstentions.

    So, what on earth is the problem with the Greens abstaining in the vote? They’re the Scottish Green Party, not a part of the flaming Scottish National Party. They’re a “separate” political party. Which will be a strength for the future push for Indy.

    If they voted FOR nicola Sturgeon, the media would be all over them as sycophantic SNP lookalike slaves. Or something.

  245. heedtracker says:

    Patrick Harvie Retweeted
    Scottish Greens ?@scotgp May 13 Glasgow, Scotland
    We made a promise during the election – that a bolder Scotland was possible. We intend to deliver. #GreenSix #SP5

    First vote – Abstains. How bold of them.


  246. Petra says:

    @ yesindyref2 says at 8:46 pm …. ”So, what on earth is the problem with the Greens abstaining in the vote? They’re the Scottish Green Party, not a part of the flaming Scottish National Party….

    If they voted FOR nicola Sturgeon, the media would be all over them as sycophantic SNP lookalike slaves. Or something.”

    Probably right on that one yesindyref2. The SCUM would be making a meal of it right now.

    Let’s just wait and see what happens re. the OBFA, APD, Tax, Named Persons and so on.

  247. Thepnr says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    If they voted FOR nicola Sturgeon, the media would be all over them as sycophantic SNP lookalike slaves. Or something.

    So true.

    There will be difficult issues over the course of this Holyrood parliament for certain between the SNP and the Greens. I doubt if it will be on the issue of Independence.

    Most probably ADP but know what? I’m willing to wait to see how it pans out before coming to any conclusions.

    “One cool judgment is worth a thousand hasty counsels. The thing to do is to supply light and not heat.”

    Woodrow T. Wilson (American 28th President of the United States 1856-1924)

  248. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 17 May, 2016 at 4:23 pm:

    “Patrick Harvie ?@patrickharvie 34m34 minutes ago
    Slightly amazed by the number of SNP supporters tweeting today who are angry that other political parties don’t vote for them.”

    Tell you what, heedtracker. I haven’t been getting out and about much recently but made it out to the Kirkcaldy, Chapel Level shopping area early this morning.

    Now, I always wear a wee woolie hat adorned with Yes Badges and drive around in a wee campervan adorned with various YES and SNP stickers. I am also always accompanied by a very, very cute wee Papillion bitch who was trained as a Therapet befriender. She stops and welcomes everyone she sees. Few can resist her.

    So when out I am speaking to all and sundry who are in absolutely no doubt of my politics. Today I rather got the impression, from the general public, that Patrick Harvey has decidedly NOT done his, or his party any good whatsoever by his latest political stance.

    He may yet live to regret his new found perceived political postures.

    Let us wait and see how things pan out.

  249. Saor Alba says:

    Patrick Harvie and his party have shown his first act of cowardice in abstaining from voting for the FM. More of this to come I think. What a joke!

  250. geeo says:


    I have zero interest in what you have to say, so save your breath.

  251. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “Rock ffs what is it with you and the bloody National, you sound like a jilted lover!”

    I am warning gullible independence supporters about the fraud that is The National.

    Like the Scottish Labour fraud that went undetected for decades.

    Gullible independence supporters were duped by the likes of schrodingers cat, The National and Bella into giving their list votes to the Greens.

    The Greens failed to back Nicola as FM of Scotland.

  252. Thepnr says:


    If you are content to turn down Yes support from other party supporters then I can only judge you as being deluded. Your posts on this matter are typical “Divide and Rule”

    I couldn’t care less what your personal grouse may be with any party other than SNP. I do care though that your narrative may be losing potential Yes votes in a future referendum rather than winning more.

    I simply ask do you really want less votes for Independence, you certainly appear to subscribe to the Divide and Rule philosophy.

    If you were in trouble and I offered you help, would you refuse because I was coloured Green?

  253. yesindyref2 says:

    Petra / Thepnr
    Yes, it’s a waiting game, but my only worry with the Greens is that they might get justifiably hacked off with the silly criticism they’re getting. From 2007:

    The SNP leader was voted into office in parliament by 49 votes to 46, after he was supported by the Greens. The Lib Dems and the Conservatives abstained.

    So the Greens voted WITH the SNP when it counted.

    Meanwhile every time the Greens abstain, the SNP win the vote, and I daresay Patrick Harvie has enough marbles to realise that.

  254. heedtracker says:

    If they voted FOR nicola Sturgeon, the media would be all over them as sycophantic SNP lookalike slaves. Or something.

    Well, first thing, Green said vote Green, we’re for Scotland’s independence.

    and second thing, what will the UKOK media reaction be when they do actually have to do what the were elected to do, vote for Scottish independence?

    Sycophantic SNP lookalike slaves, would be just the start.

    So where do the Green’s start? Oppose SNP at every opportunity but with some amendments thrown in to keep suckas like me quiet.

    Who knows. APD is going to save the planet.

    Just need to convince every other big economy in the EU first, or the states. It’s £73 for economy class long hall which adds up. You dont pay it if you fly from Northern Ireland which isn’t Green but there are no long haul flights from NI and on and on it goes in teamGB.

  255. Valerie says:

    By all means, keep your powder dry on Harvie for the big issues.

    Like OBFA? Strange he has joined in with the Unionist parties decrying it, as his first move, so maybe a clue in there???

    ‘Its done more harm than good’ ‘We have opposed this for 5 years, since it was bulldozed through’

    Direct quotes from his Twitter timeline.

    Cling on to that hope, folks, whilst the SG has to fight off this crap, spending huge amounts of time strategizing to keep good, publicly supported legislation, when I would rather they were focused on Independence, and running the country well to win over more support.

  256. Petra says:

    Weegingerdug’s ‘Slaves to ukonomics.’ Always on the ball and good for a laugh.

    ”You want to know the price of the Union? Following the news that the infamous Glasgow Effect is a by-product of decades of Westminster inspired social engineering, a study carried out by Sheffield Hallam University has found that by 2020 Scotland is going to suffer from £1.1 billion worth of cuts to the social security payments received by its already battered residents….

    The areas worst affected by the new round of cuts will be the same areas which were assailed by the deindustrialisation which Thatcher employed as a deliberate strategy to castrate the Unions….

    Don’t expect Ruth Davidson of the Ruth Davidson Holding the SNP to Account Vote Ruth Davidson Party to do any holding to account while any of this is going on. All Ruth is concerned about is a second independence referendum that’s not on the horizon. Besides, it’s her pals in the Tory party who are punishing the poor. Ruthie’s so relaxed about that that she’ll go and pose for a photo-op while sitting on a buffalo that’s driving a tank….

    The cuts are UK wide of course, people in Liverpool and Manchester and Newcastle and Swansea are going to suffer too. That must be that pooling and sharing that Gordie Broon told us about. Doesn’t that make you feel great to be British? This is a country where solidarity means that we all get our throats slashed together….

    It means newspaper features about lifestyles where the well off and well connected pay outrageous sums for the latest superfood berry, handpicked by Peruvian grandmothers in a cloud forest in the Andes, while the poorest worry if they can afford a tin of beans in an E-numbers sauce and the self righteous tell us that things are so much worse in Chad or Syria so we must not complain. But we don’t live in the third world, we don’t live in a war zone. We live in what we’re always being told is one of the richest and most successful countries in the world. So why is it still crap? ….

    The new powers don’t prevent Westminster from lopping off a Scottish limb, they just give the Scottish government the choice of which limb is to be amputated

  257. HandandShrimp says:

    Save the dunes! came the Green cry.

    Sorry I have a cold.

    Thought you had gone all Big Lebowski for a minute there Heedtracker.

  258. heedtracker says:

    Thepnr says:
    17 May, 2016 at 9:16 pm

    If you are content to turn down Yes support from other party supporters then I can only judge you as being deluded. Your posts on this matter are typical “Divide and Rule”

    I’m sorry pnr but I think we’re are going to have to accept that The Green party have calculated that Scottish independence will not happen.

    Either way, Greens like Harvie and co can still use YES Scotland and general Green. They’re in it to get more Green seats, what they do with it is anyone guess but watch as they block everything SNP try to do from now on. There’s massive media and NO vote support they’d like to win, especially tory.

    Its up to Scotland now to judge their tactics.

  259. Capella says:

    Jonathan Pie runs out of spin. Election Rage:

  260. Thepnr says:


    Here’s what Harvey had to say on OBFA in an interview with Scotland on Sunday two days ago:

    “He also favours repealing aspects of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, which was supposed to crack down on sectarianism but which has been criticised by all opposition parties for being unnecessary and unworkable.”

    “This weekend the Conservatives have approached other opposition parties in an attempt to get parliamentary time to repeal the legislation. While Labour’s James Kelly is meeting with Holyrood officials this week to look at producing a Member’s Bill aimed at scrapping it.

    Harvie agrees something should be done. He suggests the new Justice Committee should produce legislation that would repeal the most controversial aspects of it.”

    Don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound like someone who would vote against the SNP to repeal the act. No, much more like someone who would vote to amend the act and will likely get his way with the support of the SNP.

    Even the Rev says the act could be better, I agree.

    Time will tell and if their is a vote then we will know soon enough. Guilty without trial is just daft. There are only 6 Greens at least give them a chance first.

  261. Thepnr says:


    “I’m sorry pnr but I think we’re are going to have to accept that The Green party have calculated that Scottish independence will not happen.”


  262. old dearie says:


    Would love to meet for coffee if you’re free tomorrow orThurs morning as we go home on Thurs. Sorry didn’t see this till now.

  263. Thepnr says:

    Sorry forgot the link.

  264. Tam Jardine says:


    I take your point. The greens have a tightrope to walk.

    It is becoming clear that this parliament is going to be conducted on party political lines with each party leadership deciding everything for their representatives and pursuing their interests.

    Except the MSPs are not there to represent their parties or leaders and they are not there to pursue their party’s interests- they work for us. They are meant to represent us.

    Was Patrick Harvie or any of the other Glasgow list MSPs really representing his Glasgow constituents today? I get that there is a party whip but why does everyone have to toe the line every time? They forget about what Scotland wants. The people of Glasgow wanted Nicola Sturgeon to be their first minister so I don’t get how he can abstain?

    Nicola Sturgeon is often reminded that she is there to serve the whole country and not just those who voted for SNP candidates or those who voted Yes. Surely the same is true of all MSPs?

    I don’t like the approach by the opposition parties displayed to date and I think it will play out badly if they spend the next 5 years trying to destroy the SNP instead of representing their constituents.

    Nicola Sturgeon was without doubt the best candidate for First Minister and the overwhelming choice of the Scottish people so I don’t get how this is turned into a petulant little game. You can offer support- it hardly means you are in their pocket for 5 years.

  265. heedtracker says:

    Thought you had gone all Big Lebowski for a minute there Heedtracker.

    Save the dudes is actually better:D

  266. Petra says:


    The peeps in the US are sick and tired of the corruption and are getting VERY angry indeed.

    From Craig Murray’s site ‘Extraordinary Stitch-Up at Nevada Democratic Convention.’

    ”I had heard much about the way that Hillary was able to use control of the Democratic Party machine to suppress the challenge of Bernie Sanders. I had not fully understood it until I saw this truly shocking video of the Nevada Democratic Convention, a stage in the awarding of that state’s delegates to Hillary or Bernie. After the announcement of a narrow win for Hillary, which to many seemed improbable, the chairwoman of the Convention, Roberta Lange, a member of the National Democratic Committee, absolutely refused demands for a recount. She then closed the Convention after calling for a voice vote, again uncounted, on a rules change to allow her to do that.

    Twice as many Sanders delegates to the Convention were disqualified by the Committee,for “administrative reasons”, as the supposed majority for Clinton, which even after those disqualifications did not appear to reflect the apparent balance of delegates present.

    I think watching the video will tell you more than anything I can say. When adverts appear keep watching past them as it seems to be in several parts.”

    The Nevada Democratic Convention May 14, 2016


    They “powers that be” started voting early.

    They literally changed the rules.

    Which they then adopted by voice vote over very vocal opposition.

    They ignored a motion for recount and ended the convention against the rules.

    In other words: Politics as usual.

  267. Petra says:


    The peeps in the US are sick and tired of the corruption and are getting VERY angry indeed.

    From Craig Murray’s site ‘Extraordinary Stitch-Up at Nevada Democratic Convention.’

    ”I had heard much about the way that Hillary was able to use control of the Democratic Party machine to suppress the challenge of Bernie Sanders. I had not fully understood it until I saw this truly shocking video of the Nevada Democratic Convention, a stage in the awarding of that state’s delegates to Hillary or Bernie. After the announcement of a narrow win for Hillary, which to many seemed improbable, the chairwoman of the Convention, Roberta Lange, a member of the National Democratic Committee, absolutely refused demands for a recount. She then closed the Convention after calling for a voice vote, again uncounted, on a rules change to allow her to do that.

    Twice as many Sanders delegates to the Convention were disqualified by the Committee,for “administrative reasons”, as the supposed majority for Clinton, which even after those disqualifications did not appear to reflect the apparent balance of delegates present.

    I think watching the video will tell you more than anything I can say. When adverts appear keep watching past them as it seems to be in several parts.”

    The Nevada Democratic Convention May 14, 2016


    They “powers that be” started voting early.

    They literally changed the rules.

    Which they then adopted by voice vote over very vocal opposition.

    They ignored a motion for recount and ended the convention against the rules.

    In other words: Politics as usual.

  268. Capella says:

    Divide and Rule.
    Some notes from the experience of the British Raj.

  269. defo says:

    Come on Rev. Tell it like it is. Stop mincing your words 😉
    Kelly should be tarred and feathered. Setting alight afterwards optional.

  270. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    17 May, 2016 at 10:00 pm
    Divide and Rule.
    Some notes from the experience of the British Raj.

    Yes dear, and today’s Green abstention on Sturgeon for Scotland’s FM was an act of unity?

  271. Phronesis says:

    This study should be posted on a daily basis as a reminder that Scotland cannot escape the toxic policies that emanate from WM and continue to blight the life chances of Scotland’s citizens.

    The asymmetrical power relations within UKOK do not serve Scotland at all and unless we vote for our independence the mortality trends and inequality gap described within this report will only intensify irrespective of whatever party in Holyrood (pro or anti independence) wants to influence SNP policies.

  272. Thepnr says:


    Still at it hahaha. Your such a divvy sometimes, intentionally I guess?

    Do you ever think that their may be others on this site who care more about Independence than petty party politics?

    If you want to make an impression, tell us straight what your problem is with Yes supporters that may not vote SNP.

    I’m all ears.

  273. yesindyref2 says:

    Nobody seems to have commented that James Kelly abstained on that vote. He should have gone down on bended knee and sworn an oath of fealty and loyalty and free Tunnocks teacakes for life, to Nicola the Great.

    Keelhaul that filthy landlubber, send him down to the depths below!

  274. Valerie says:


    Nothing you have said there gives me any comfort, and the link to the Hootsmon, which I’d seen has plenty SNP bad, Greens better.

    My point is, this is time wasting on a grand scale, when 80% of the public back this legislation. Harvie could simply say it’s not his priority right now, and the Unionists would most likely drop it due to lack of numbers.

    Instead, he joins the Unionist parties in the clamour, and they must be well gleeful.

    I must have missed the Rev calling for changes. The comment I have seen on his Twitter is – why have none of the Opposition not made suggestions??

    Indeed, much easier to join the crowd in their chant – SNP bad.

    Just in time for marching season, and as others have said, that new company at Ibrox joining the premier league.

    I’m struggling to find any silver lining here, and reading the Greens snark on Twitter is depressing.

    Early days, yes, but first impressions matter. I’ve seen plenty of evidence that the Greens used the ‘2nd vote wasted’ to entice SNP supporters, so I’m not impressed.

  275. Petra says:


    I’ve been feeling a bit down today. Mushroom omelette for lunch tomorrow.

    Only kidding of course. Let’s hope that this does lead to a cure for a most debilitating condition.

    ‘Drug from magic mushrooms may help treat depression – The National’

  276. heedtracker says:

    If you want to make an impression, tell us straight what your problem is with Yes supporters that may not vote SNP.

    I’m all ears.

    I’ll just say the same thing to you as Cappella up there,

    Yes dear, and today’s Green abstention on Sturgeon for Scotland’s FM was an act of unity?

    Is yoon culture still raging away at the one party SNP state?

    If it stops that bullshit its something.

    Also, I dont know why you think what I think makes any odds to anyone, least of the Scottish Green saviours of this planet:D

  277. Capella says:

    @ heedtracker
    There are 3 Unionist Parties and 2 Independence Parties and who do some commenteers fire their guns at? The other Independence Party. Well done.

    If there’s some tactical advantage to this do explain it.

  278. bookie from hell says:

    angus MacNeil is toast if DM story tomorrow is true?

    hope Nicola deals with it swiftly

  279. cearc says:

    old dearie,

    I could be at the Ceilidh place about 12.00.

    (Hat, walking stick and Wings badge)

  280. yesindyref2 says:

    Rev Stu comment on tghat thread:

    I’d have no complaints if the opposition were lining up to demand it be revised and improved. It’s a bit of a dog’s breakfast. But abolishing it is madness.” (my bold)

  281. heedtracker says:

    If there’s some tactical advantage to this do explain it.

    I just did all day seems like. Once again,

    Yes dear, and today’s Green abstention on Sturgeon for Scotland’s FM was an act of unity?

    I can do this as long you can Cappella. Scots that want Scottish independence are unbreakable and chancers like the Greens better not forget it.

  282. Thepnr says:


    Nicola Sturgeon was elected First Minister today.

    Do you think that the Green abstention really mattered? If there was to be a serious Unionist challange, how do you think that may have worked out?

    Have you heard? I don’t give a shit about a party name or what their policies are as long as they support Independence. It’s called “eyes on the prize”

    You can remain petty about the Greens or other parties as long as you like but I’m telling you now you are missing the big picture.

    It’s either ignorance or deliberate.

    Continue your “Divide and Rule” diatribe like most donkeys because that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

    It does the Yes campaign no good whatsoever, and WE are then the losers. Don’t know about YOU but I intend to win the next referendum. I’ll say again, we will need ALL the help we can get.

    Take you Unionist “Divide and Rule” shite elsewhere.

  283. Petra says:

    @ Capella says at 10:00 pm …. ”Divide and Rule. Some notes from the experience of the British Raj.”

    @ Phronesis says at 10:26 pm

    ”This study should be posted on a daily basis as a reminder that Scotland cannot escape the toxic policies that emanate from WM and continue to blight the life chances of Scotland’s citizens.

    The asymmetrical power relations within UKOK do not serve Scotland at all and unless we vote for our independence the mortality trends and inequality gap described within this report will only intensify irrespective of whatever party in Holyrood (pro or anti independence) wants to influence SNP policies.”


    Thanks for the great links Capella / Phronesis. They go well together. How they, Westminster, actually do it and the outcome.

    I had to laugh at Kezia Dugdale today when she was giving her speech. Mentioned something along the lines of a ‘post code lottery’ in Scotland in relation to education (I think).

    You should send a copy of that to Kelly and Dugdale Phronesis to highlight the fact that it’s a post code lottery right enough. Nobody wants to live in Labour run constituencies, especially GCC, as their diabolical policies / actions, engineered by Westminster, endanger your life chances. Actual life in fact.

    And agreed Phronesis posted on here on a daily basis and fired out onto Twitter and Facebook ASAP.

  284. heedtracker says:

    Take you Unionist “Divide and Rule” shite elsewhere.


  285. Valerie says:


    That’s some diatribe yourself, or can you not see that the point being made is the Greens are aligning with non Indy parties?

    If you think I’m making points about SNP, you are mistaken, it’s about Harvie sending some kind of sign to the vast majority, that he IS ON our side.

    The two Green MSPs present in 2007, voted for Salmond, Harvie being one of them, so wtf?

    I want independence over party, it just so happens I believe, like many, that SNP is the vehicle, so of course I’m pissed off when it looks like bricks being thrown at the vehicle.

  286. Capella says:

    @ heedtracker -OK you’re unbreakable but also outvotable. I think it would be better to find common ground and work from there. ?

    Nicola herself ruled out a coalition signalling that she expects both parties to work individually. So no, I don’t think the Greens were acting from disunity.

  287. Thepnr says:


    Give me some evidence please that the Greens are aligning with Non Indy parties. I provided you with some that said Harvie would be willing to change the OBFA act, and not repeal it, contrary to your earlier statement.

    So far I haven’t seen any and as I said am willing to wait for that evidence. If you have some now that would be welcome.

    I want this over with as much as the next man. Because this is simply damaging the broader Yes movement. You’d have to be blind if failing to see that.

  288. Capella says:

    @ Petra
    I’ve been googling today looking for that chilling Reinhard Heydrich quote about how to suppress a nation’s culture and confidence but can’t track it down. I’m sure he must have studied the British Raj for hints.

    If anyone has a link please post.

  289. Valerie says:


    Did SNP say at any point the OBFA needs changed? Are the stats provided by the Rev in the article not good enough, along with high public support, that the Act is doing a decent job?

    Are you disputing that Greens, long with others are now demanding change?

    How is this helping unity, or a move towards Independence?

    I’ve already made my point that what would help the Yes movement, is Harvie saying OBFA is not his priority, and allow the SG to move forward.

    These are facts. We are not unified, we do not have two parties on the same side.

  290. Ken500 says:

    More voters would have come over to YES but don’t want the (non Greens) and their nonsense policies. More moderate voter would have come over the YES if (non)Greens had not scared the horses. They are an ignorant bunch of incompetents. Their involvement in YES administration was total immature, incompetence, overrated and turned voters off. They should never had been let lose on it.

    The majority do not want 60% tax an implied ‘land grab’ or their lives made difficult by the tree huggers with their heads in the clouds. They were given totally over coverage compared to their support.They are a small pressure group but were given over exposure at the Infy Ref. Many young voters do not identify with them.

    Some bunnie lovers were totally incensed when a large rabbit ate all their prize plants from their pots. Chop, chop, chop. Scoff, scoff, scoff. They were howling to get the killers in. Sometimes rabbits have to be exterminated when they eat all the greens.

    Now Rennie’s running lose, even wants to be FM. Like a bolt from the Blue. There are even more red, and blue sounds. Fhuntrring on each side. Banging the desks like big bass drums. All they need is a sash. The place is being turned into a pantomime of unelected rejects.

    The SNP Gov is one of the most Green in Europe. It meets it’s targets and sets higher target.That is enough for most people. The SNP are greener than the Greens, There is more need to bring the unelected 2nd rate rejects to account. The only way Scotland could have more radical policies would be if Scotland had FFA/Indepenence and power over taxation and spending,

  291. heedtracker says:

    These are facts. We are not unified, we do not have two parties on the same side.

    Right on Valerie.

    And the Scottish Green party isn’t particularly Green either. Sorry pnr. We live in hope though.

  292. yesindyref2 says:

    OBFA has SFA to do with Independence.

    Nor does any party policy, whether SNP, Green, RISE or the man in the moon party.

  293. Thepnr says:


    Agreed, we do not have two parties on the same side simply because they are two different parties. Can’t you accept the votes on the 5th May?

    The Greens won 6 seats, the Tories 31 hahaha makes them the “Official Opposition” though.

    No yu are right, at no time did the SNP say that OBFA needs changing. Others did though including Sheriffs, Lawyers and all the opposition parties that it seems more than 50% actually voted for.

    Here, the SNP can make a mistake, not saying they have as I agree with the bill. this is an Indy supporting site Yes? The Rev says it could have been better written and some including me agree.

    I too have already made my point that this should not in any way be a priority for debate in parliament but the Unionists and media have made it so. In other words it wasn’t the minority SNP’s choice.

    The Yes movement cannot be helped in any way by slagging off other parties that purport to support Independence, let’s get that straight as it is simply a fact.

    Why would anyone do that then?

  294. Jamie says:

    I am interested to know in table A displayed in the article how many people had their cases judged not proven, so I can gain an understanding of percentages, does anyone know? Surely some cases were not proven?

  295. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Tesco’s orange fruit drops are my favourites. I do like the blackcurrant ones – they come a close second. The yellow ones probably come third.

    People who prefer the green ones are obviously being divisive coz it’s clear to all thinking consumers that the strawberry(?) ones are more tasty. They’d come fourth on my list of fruit drop favourites.

    I will monitor the effect of the green ones on my taste buds but, so far, they are not offending me. Sometimes, I actually pick out a couple of green ones to suck.

    None of the flavours/colours actually cause me any offence. The only problem is the random nature of what actually goes into each bag. Sometimes there are no orange ones…

  296. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You may find republican songs offensive but it is a valid political opinion.”

    Sigh. For the millionth fucking time and for everyone else bleating about it in the moderation queue: it’s not the songs. It’s the CONTEXT of the songs.

    Opine about how great the IRA are all you like. Do it at a place and time where there’s a decent chance it’ll start a riot, and where you KNOW that’s the case, and I won’t weep one tear if you get dragged off in the back of a van and banged up for it.

    It’s not the word “FIRE!” being offensive that’s the issue. It’s when you shout it in the crowded theatre.

  297. Jamie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon – That was very funny, in fact so funny, that I can’t quite work out the no doubt clever meaning to what you wrote. I’m sure in a minute or two it will come to me…

  298. yesindyref2 says:

    I think midget gems from Morrisons at 31p a bag are the best. I guess my favourite are the kind of white ones, they have that full of E numbers tang that hits the taste buds. But mostly I suck them two at at time so you get the contrasting flavours of say green and orange. That really gets the juices flowing!

    Yellow ones of course have to be taken with the purple ones, but red ones can be taken on their own.

    For some odd reason there are no blue ones.

  299. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    There are no blue fruit drops either.

    Is it a conspiracy?

  300. Jamie says:

    Rev – surely though, there is little chance of a riot at a celtic rangers game nowadays because they have learnt from the last riot, what was it, a scottish cup final in the 80’s?

    I do not think there has been a riot since? Will the songs start or incite a riot? I think most fans now sing these songs for “the banter” as bad as I can understand that is to many people, I just wonder what criminalising these people leads to end result wise.

    There are dafties who use these songs to commit other crimes, their crimes should rightly be punished. Whilst being punished, these people though should be investigated to see what other help they need though, as commiting crimes such as domestic abuse because of a football match on tv suggests the person has serious mental issues, maybe that should be a big focus of any legislation rather than criminalisation because from what I have seen, criminalisation leads to people losing jobs, finding it hard to gain employment, when it already is very hard to gain employment, and in many cases repeat offending and drink and drug abuse when initially a person, with the right intervention may well have been able to keep their job and maybe even stop beating the other half, would that not be the best scenario?

  301. Jamie says:

    Brian doonthetoon – I personally do not think this legislation is a conspiracy against Celtic fans, I think it was a rushed piece of legislation to be seen to be doing something against something that has been a big issue for decades that no one really knows how to deal with. But I think my last post maybe offers a better alternative, engagement with offenders rather than blanket criminalisation, case dependant ofcourse, serious offences such as domestic abuse though should still be severly punished, because there is never an excuse.

  302. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Jamie.

    It’s far enough down the page that I was actually discussing Tesco’s fruit drops. I am a lapsed Dundee supporter so have no experience of the shenanigans in the Glasgow football scene so wouldn’t dare to offer an opinion, which would only be a product of ignorance on my part.

    Although I have to type that my Mum’s cousin’s husband was a Glasgow based Rangers fan and took me and my brother on a tour of Ibrox around 1961. The press box was particularly scary. The trophy room was impressive. I still have the Rangers club tie that he gave me.

    That’s the total of my experience of Glasgow football.

    Does it make me a bad person for preferring fruit drops?

  303. Jamie says:

    Fair enough Brian, I obviously misunderstood 🙂

  304. Chic McGregor says:

    “Thought you had gone all Big Lebowski for a minute there Heedtracker.”

    Or David Bowie 🙂

  305. Sandy says:

    Re the repeal of the OBFA.

    Is this a conspiracy by the Unionists to further slag the legitimate Government of Scotland at a future date?
    Considering the mess the NHS in Angleland is in, & the Old Firm playing each other at least four times a season, A & E waiting times could go through the roof. Will this be used as a comparison with “darn sarf”.

  306. Andrew McLean says:

    Look at the Scottish government website it has all the statistics you want, also actually singing is a small percentage of the cases, it’s mainly violence or violent disorder, you must realise that we are talking about a very small percentage of people who to be kind are not very bright.

    They were promised this act would be repealed by labour and Tory if they voted for them, the worst thing any government could do is send a signal that any violence is acceptable, their is a reason that the vast majority of people support this act, sectarian behaviour is mainly a Glasgow and west of Scotland issue, the very places where the SNP has destroyed the labour vote, it’s long past time that this cancer was cut out of Scottish society, the only people who support a recall are bigoted violent thugs and immoral political operatives who would sell their granny for a seat in Holyrood.

  307. Old dearie says:

    Ceilidh place noon it is! Black and white jumper in the coffee shop. See you then.

  308. Old dearie says:


    12noon at the Ceilidh Place. Black and white jumper. In the coffee shop. See you then. Looking forward to it. Sorry this post late. My first one disappeared i think

  309. gus1940 says:

    Re McNeill/Hosie – Today The Herald has 4 separate articles on this including one where they can’t resist reminding us of the Thompson and McGarry alleged scandalsfor the nth time.

    As a newspaper it gets worse every day and has long since left The Scotsman behind when it comes to being nothing but a propaganda rag.

    And another thing – guess what the headline item is on this morning’s Call Kaye. Surprise, Surprise.

    No doubt it won’t be long until our wonderful media regale us with details of this ‘lady’s’ previous friendships revelations which will no doubt benefit her financially.

  310. cearc says:

    old dearie,

    See you then

  311. Dan Huil says:

    The Herald, Daily Mail, thon Kaye wifie: britnats’ rancid refuge. Yet I can’t help feeling they are actually doing the independence movement a favour. To put it mildly.

  312. Tinto Chiel says:

    Capella, I think this is what you are looking for:

    reinhard heydrich quotes

    The link doesn’t look right so if it doesn’t work I’ll write it out and post later.

  313. Tinto Chiel says:


    “Deprive the people of their national consciousness, treat them as a tribe and not a nation, dilute their national pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasise their customs are primitive, and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.”

    Maybe he knew someone in th BBC?

  314. Andrew McLean says:

    If you read the National it states it is a Newspaper that supports Scottish Independence, a newspaper Rock, and as the fourth estate its job is to hold to account,examine, distil, educate and inform. ever since the question was first asked who guards the guards, people have been finding ways to hold to account those who control power,. until recently newspapers fitted that bill. Now it can be argued that citizen journalists do a better job, the Rev is a shining example.

    It is telling that with the rise of tabloid or pop papers whose job is to misinform, distort, corrupt and debase discourse, faced with citizen journalism and the opening of media in general, have seen their sales falling. In this race to the bottom its only a matter of time that a British tabloid will pronounce “A London bus found on the moon” in all sincerity.
    look at today, we have the state propaganda machine or its lickspittle supporters, moralising over the sex life of three adults, probable so we the guidable can laugh and snigger, good opportunity for some tits on the front page two, or at least some scanty clad woman to titillate and arouse.

    Funny they are deadly quiet on the other celebrity threesome, even describing them as such is another misnomer. Also stupid is the fact that everyone knows who they are but the law playing at king Canute sits with the waves over its feet but still proclaims the tide is out!

    I wonder if some newspaper journalists or indeed editors, or local radio presenters would like their sexual proclivities, or adventures aired in public, Scotland is a small country chaps,!

    Anyway in that environment the National, though not perfect is a credit, or at the very least the phrase “in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king” is apt.

    My next point is that it states it supports Scottish independence, the SNP is not the only party, yes I know the greens as the largest are turning blue, or running hot and cold, but this is set to cause them problems internally should they be stupid enough to make fools of their own MSPs. but is is not and shouldn’t be an apologist for the SNP, it’s just not its job in a democracy.

    But never forget the National are a commercial operation who strive to appeal to the broadest church, and that brings me to your name Rock, taken from St Peter, I suppose? the fact is if St Peter was the misogynistic demigod that some to promote their own agenda made him out to be, the Christian church would be a minority sect still around the sea of Galilee. So who would it benefit to see the demise of the National, not Scottish independence that’s for sure.

    As there are much larger fish to fry than the National a fixation just on this paper will prompt observers to ask questions of an ulterior motive ?

  315. Jamie says:

    Andrew Mclean – my point would be that those people who were convicted of violent crimes should be convicted of violent crimes I do not see how adding another layer of criminalisation helps. If people are saying the punishment for violent crimes is not severe enough that is another issue, possibly a justifiable one, that should be looked at.

    So I can see the need for tougher sentences or even intervention to help people with the causes of the crimes e.g pyschological, drink and drugs issues etc but this law does not offer any of that and these things could be achieved without this law anyway.

  316. Andrew McLean says:

    Jamie Kirkwood,
    So you would also abandon the following in Scotland for racially aggravated behaviour (under section 50A(1)(b) of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995) or for racially aggravated harassment (under section 50A(1)(a) of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995) or for any other offence with the addition of ‘racial aggravation’ (under section 96 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998).
    These are all additional offences to add motive to the offender as the first offence is aggravated by racial motives?

  317. Jamie says:

    Andrew Mclean – That would be correct to some extent, and is my belief these types of laws are overused although in other cases, especially when it comes to islamophobia, there seems to be an underuse, so I just wonder how useful such laws are.

    I would say that an assault because of racism or because of the theft of grannys apples should both be punished accordingly, based on damage inflicted, that way there would be no grey areas and everyone would know where they stand.

    I have heard some shockingly bad examples of racially aggravated charges being jumped up for dubious reasons, especially by certain types of bouncers, looking for easy compensation because the system is designed and weighted in their favour.

    The legal system is deeply flawed in this country in my opinon. The peadophilia scandal by instituitons is another example where it takes years to go through the court siding with the big instituitions rather than the people.

    Another famous recent example is the phone hacking scandal and the tommy sheridan case. The only evidence i heard was illegally obtained via phone hacking and the hear say of sun journalists who obviously had a lot to gain from lying.

    Wether tommy sheridan was innocent or guilty is another matter but for sure the evidence was dodgy and a guilty verdit by a jury analysing dodgy and illegal evidence is no verdict at all in my view and how he was the only person to face jail is an absolute joke, what about the person who hacked his phone? Does no one care about privacy anymore?

    The legal system is flawed, deeply flawed and could do with a real shake up, starting off by ditching a lot of the BS laws, the truth is if someone does wrong it can be sorted a lot quicker and efficently if the legal system really wanted but the truth is the legal system has become a cash cow for lawyers and useful delaying tactic for big business and governments.

  318. tam says:

    i have sent a number of e-mail to him asking him to reconsider his views on this and if he has any solid ideas to make the act work then he should be encourage to do that rather than act on some symbolic thumbs up on the snp just to make him act out his frustrations at finding him self and his part being punished rightly for there betrayal

  319. John Connelly says:

    The moronic level of so many posts on this thread, beginning with the initial post, demonstrates to me why the wee pretend “parliament” in Edinburgh is as much as the Scottish political class deserve at this point in time. Grow up, abandon your juvenile taunting politics, and you may eventually persuade the electorate that you are capable of paddling your own canoe.

  320. Andrew McLean says:

    Wee pretend parliament, no such thing John, has not our betters told us it’s the most powerful devolved parliament in the western world, BBC radio Scotland this morning with the deputy Secretary of State for Scotland no less, you really need to bone up on your political education if you wish to make a point on here, but nice try ;-o

  321. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “If you read the National it states it is a Newspaper that supports Scottish Independence”

    And gullible idiots believe that.

    The National does not support independence.

    Its only purpose is to milk the pro independece market.

    In the same way as its sister paper The Herald milks the unionist market.

    If The National supported independence, it would have WOS type headline articles every day.

  322. Andrew McLean says:

    Actually Rock it was pro SNP guys who fought for the Natonal, it was a risk as if it failed they may not have a job to go back too.
    And if it was full of wings type posts it would fall flat on its face, again when we only have one, imperfect as it my be do you want to have nothing?

    Nothing think about it, an empty space amoungst wall to wall unionists shite?

  323. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “Nothing think about it, an empty space amoungst wall to wall unionists shite?”

    You can buy it if it makes you feel good.

    But don’t flog it as “supporting independence”.

    It does not support independence.

    It is there to milk the pro independence market.

    The 12000 or so who buy it are almost all already independence supporters.

    Do you think they would become unionists if The National stopped publishing?

  324. Andrew McLean says:

    It supports independence in the fact that every day it usually has a pro independence headline that floating voters might glance at, in effect a nice piece of pro yes propaganda, it may make people who think the yes lot are extremists think twice, open their minds, this is a propoganda war, OK the national isn’t what you or I would print, but if it’s that or nothing, give me the national. We need ammunition, the national is ammunition, you don’t spike your own guns when fighting a war, that’s just cutting of your nose to spite your face.

  325. Maureen mangan says:

    Rev, can you point me to the source of table A above?

  326. Andrew McLean says:

    most have went home I was just putting the lights out?
    this is the Link to table A

  327. Hamish100 says:

    James Kelly….At Hampden?
    “…. if we could just get rid of this legislation we wouldn’t have the problems with the hibee’s invading or the flares going off at the start of the game or the banter in the songs” ” I can guarantee we will be safer”

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