If only someone had thought
Posted on
November 08, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
George Osborne on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning:
“There’s a very interesting idea which we want to explore, which is whether you could create a sovereign wealth fund for the money that comes from the shale gas that we’re going to be pulling out of the ground, particularly in the north of England.
That’s a way of making sure this money is not squandered on day-to-day spending, but invested in the long-term economic health of the north of England to create jobs and investment there.
So a sovereign wealth fund for the north of England based on the shale gas there is another exciting idea, another part of building a northern powerhouse.”
It’s an idea, eh?
I almost didn’t have computer left from which to send this. The keys are flying off the keyboard and there is steam coming out of my ears.
(from other thread)
re Osborne Sovereign Wealth Fund Mock-Up Vow Pledge Promise( it’s just an idea really, well, not even my idea. I don’t really know how to have ideas, it wasn’t in the syllabus.)
If you listen carefully you can hear his SPAD in the background muttering to a irate London Hedge-Fraud Manager not to worry, because in fact he’s only promised the north half the fund, the other half is actually a rebate to London, and then the initial half will be charged back in fees to service the rebate.
Will Gordon Brown make this a “VOW?”
George Osborne is a hypocrite of the highest order. He’s also a lying, conniving bastard.
Unfortunately he is not the only example of those who hold power and rule over us, just one of the worst.
After 40 years where’s Scotland’s Sovereign Oil Fund George? An exciting idea for the North of England the 21st century right enough! Good on you George, you’ve nailed your colours to the mast!
You couldn’t make this shit up.
Surely Scotland will get a good part of the revenues from English shale gas? You know, the UK is about pooling and sharing is it not?
Goodness me, what a clever idea. I wonder why no-one thought about it before?
Wow! The interviewers blank expression as the expert (dont know names) speaks, speaks volumes!!
We can thank No voters for their far-sighted wisdom in allowing Westminster to squander North Sea oil until it runs out.
I am sure they are proud of the achievement.
‘Pool and share,’ just not with Scotland.
to my ear, he sounded like a 7yr old trying to persuade his parents to give him more pocket money.
Better late than never! We should have had an oil fund from the start. Alba gu bràth
Is Osborne too stupid to realise how this will play in Scotland or does he not give a damn what the Scots think any more? Or is it both?
Another idea that they rubbished pre referendum for Scotland is now a great idea for the North of England, they are lowlife bastards, however I’d rather have beautiful scenery and the best drinking water than have a fund raised from fracking
Maybe, just maybe, he’s floated the idea of an “fracking fund”, because he recognises Scotland is going to have its own oil fund in the very near future!.
“You squandered that wealth” Like that “you” but It’s too late now. The UK exists as it does on entirely on giant debt, national and personal. If Scotland had voted Yes, England would have lost a very large asset, resources, land to spread into, a cash machine. They all said there is no Scots oil left now from the BBC to George Galloway to Sir Ian Wood, all of them said Scots oil’s nearly gone.So it’s going to be interesting hearing oil billionaires like Ian Wood on the socialist outrage of oil funds.
Anyone would think that the Westminster powers are just mocking us for the lack of backbone the no voters showed in September. Back in your kennel Scotland
Divide and conquer!
Shetland has a wealth fund and now NEEngland to be bribed to allow desolation to their region!
Pooling and sharing eh! City of London and elite always take the major portion in any deal of this nature.
They are going to use this plan to bribe Scottish regions to accept fracking across the central belt and Fife and distribute the income to local authorities bypassing the Scot Parliament.
Divide and conquer, weapon of choice, money and greed!
Scots Parliament should sue Westminster for back payment against Scottish share of oil wealth as if we had had a wealth fund from mid seventies.
Almost every day there is something reported that is a kick in the teeth for Scotland.
Any chance of an ongoing list of all these things so that we can refer no voters (and those in my part of the world that think Scots are just whinging) to it?
OFFS!
Somebody get me a stick and a sack.
Grrrrrrr.
Ahhh I’d forgotten the Union dividend. Pooling & sharing Best of both worlds and all that.
Dont be daft that was an SNP policy and our imperial masters put us straight that you cant spend and save at the same time or has that changed since September?
It makes me feel physically sick to listen to Osbourn. The consequences of a No vote become more and more difficult to take. What an opertunity we have lost. We have to hope that the full concequences become so obvious that even the staunchest No voters have to take heed. What chance of that? I wish I knew. Our future depends on the message getting through, in my experience to date they are not even listening
If only Westminster would try to keep up with developments! Forlorn hope, no doubt.
Wait a minute, did he say a fracking fund for the north of England? That’s not pooling and sharing resources. That’s a federal system of that “region” using its assets for its own agenda. Im not saying the north of England shouldn’t get this benefit, because they deserve it, its just that the same principle should be applied to Scotland but this is what Westminster is fighting against. Westminster needs to make up its mind what its doing, federal Britain or not, Scotland is a country or a region of Britain? Is it really that hard? Oops silly me, there would need to be a written constitution and this government cannot tie the hands of the next.
A bribe to get people to stop being against fracking, pure and simple. What a dick.
I’m speechless at George Osborne’s idea.
Seriously, flummoxed.
Vote NO get nada. Possibly vote UKIP get a Sovereign Wealth Fund.
WTF.
@ Lanarkist Yes, but would that also engineer a reduction of the Barrnet Formula? Another way for London to keep the majority of the taxes in a stealth fashion ? Its so messy they don’t know what to do or how to go about it.
Albaman says:
8 November, 2014 at 2:03 pm
“Maybe, just maybe, he’s floated the idea of an “fracking fund”, because he recognises Scotland is going to have its own oil fund in the very near future!.”
_________________________
You might just be on to something there, hopefully.
😉
It’s also a very simple and clever way of countering the opposition they will be expecting against this fracking.
As well as sending a 2 fingered salute northwards over the wall.
This tweet from Gideon has some great comments BTL 🙂
Let’s create a sovereign wealth fund for North, so shale gas receipts used for long term investment & jobs #NorthernPowerhouse
https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/531024416801828865
This is clever trap set by the Tories for the Labour Party. If Geordie George, the Chancer of the BlankChequer is trying to sell the idea of economic Nirvana to the Labour heartlands in the north of England, it will cause big problems for the Labour party:
The Labour Party will be obliged to support the idea or lose votes. However, support for such an idea flies in the face of the Labour One Nation mantra and the concept of pooling and sharing across the UK would killed stone dead. Additionally, any positive discussion about the idea within Labour would inflict further serious damage to the relationship between the UK and Scottish branch offices.
Devious, but smart politics.
“Whit’s yours is mine, whit’s mine’s my ain”
Same old, same old, from Mr Osborne
Test, last 2 posts never appeared
Just rubbing it in now.
Sickening to think how different things could have been if voters in the eighties hadn’t been such pussies.
http://www.thelocal.no/20141103/norway-is-worlds-most-prosperous-country
Gordon Brewer’s face was a picture, it was, oh shit, I’m sacked. Why did I ask that question?
A sight of beauty!
O/T but…
Just announced at the Way Forward Conference. Craig Murray, the former UK ambassador who exposed the corruption of the British State, is moving to Scotland to stand as an SNP candidate at the General Election.
I remember when the Scottish shale oil industry in Scotland was taxed out of existence in the 69’s along with sugar beet.
The pyramid bings can be seen in Midlothian from the partial Motorway.
What a super idea.
Jesus wept!
And all the rest.
So no sharing with Scotland then, why the fuck did people vote no in this country?
Would be interested to know the UKIP take on this as they’re supposedly the political shock troops in the North of England.
Meanwhile Ed is forming a pool on the floor.
All grist to the mill for a second referendum, keep it coming!
When did the North of England become “sovereign”.
Ach well. They’ll be in good company. Even Mongolia has a sovereign wealth fund.
http://www.swfinstitute.org/fund-rankings/
@Paula Rose
That’s great news, quality candidate.
Wealth fund for Northern England,how about one for Scotland that westminster canny touch,beware Northern England,Westminster will redraw the boundaries so that the North ends on the Thames. They have form on this kind of gerrtmandering. You will be left paying into London projects while your land ends up a poisoned wasteland.
@Paula Rose
Just announced at the Way Forward Conference. Craig Murray, the former UK ambassador who exposed the corruption of the British State, is moving to Scotland to stand as an SNP candidate at the General Election.
Seriously? That’s brilliant. Any idea which seat?
* gerrymandering
And STILL idiots out there voted No. And many of them would probably vote No again. It’s stuff like this that gets me so frustrated that I want to upsticks and get the hell out of this wee-minded, loser country.
To preserve ma sanity & the protection of my laptop I,m bypassing this thread.FFFSSAKY
Buster: why the fuck did people vote no?
For the most part, I guess, those who voted No with absolute certainty have no politics whatsoever.
Those who wavered last minute have a conscience, prepared to think for themselves. We need to corral that group next time around and ply them with whisky and postal votes!
I wonder when George’s next visit to Scotland will be?
What I like about George is that he is young enough
that when he is prosecuted, he’ll still be able to serve his time in full.
I don’t believe I just heard that, does it make sense now the referendum is over?
Yep, agree with previous posters that this is a device to obliterate the Labour party in one of their strongholds in the North of England. Labour as a potent force would become obsolete if they object, and with what is happening in Scotland, they could never hope to form a government for the foreseeable future, leaving the Tories a clear path to tackle their main threat U.K.I.P. Good however to present to the Scottish electorate to ask how often they must have their noses rubbed in shit before they can smell it!!!.
‘re. Craig Murray, Ivan McKee has also joined SNP, so I was wondering if he will stand.
‘re. The Fund for shale gas, I sincerely hope the North tell Gideon where to shove it, and realise how hard people in parts of England are fighting like hell to refuse any fracking, it is seriously a dirty industry, again putting money in the big corporates.
Pandering to NE England to get buy-in to fracking.
Osborne doesn’t need to worry about any of that when dealing with the northern colony – the Treasury just takes it.
I remember in “Claim of Scotland” the author referred to even the revenue generated from dog licenses in Scotland went to the UK Treasury rather than local authorities (as in England).
Relax, I don’t know what you’re all getting so upset about!
The tories have no intention of setting up a wealth fund for anyone but themselves. This is electioneering, that’s all. They know they have no chance in Scotland and equally Labour aren’t going to walk it.
So now they concentrate on the Labour heartlands in England. Strike while the enemy is at their weakest. Hit them before Milliband can rally the troops or make way for someone who can.
As said above, this is a trap for Labour.
This is only being floated to get public support for the shale revolution and get the planning approvals.
It will provide the promise of jam tomorrow and divide Labour, but if they do build a fund for northern England, good luck to them, but expect it to be buttons.
By the time they get their fund, we will be on our way out of UK.
By the way, there is a lot of anti fracking in Scotland. But im not convinced its an automatic no no. To be clear I have shares in a fracking company. I only bought them after I looked into fracking. The amount of scares reported as facts and simply retold by others, who know nothing, is as frightening as the media bias against independence.
This Tory government is just taking the utter piss out of us in Scotland.
I hope a good few No-buts are taking this all in?
Can you imagine walking in the North of England without wondering when you are about to be consumed by a sink hole. The amount of mine shafts abandoned years ago in this region must make the sub surface like a SWISS cheese over an area of hundreds of miles. Hard to believe they would want to destabilise the sub surface even further. IN REALITY this appears to be a political ploy.
Aye, never mind, Scotlands wee version of Eva Peron’s right after them the Bastirts, “GO NIKKI”
And wee Eck’ll be doon there in wastemonster lobbyin it right up their passages
No be long…..
Remember this from Gideon’s father-in-law?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fracking-lord-howell-george-osbornes-3536842
Anent pooling and sharing, I can see it now when we ask for a share. It will be a case of the Morningside Tory lady refrain, “You’ll have had your tea, what with all that extra expenditure per head over the years”. Get back in your box.
AARGH. Whit Ronnie Anderson said.
Good news about Craig Murray though.
( I think Craig Murray is standing in Morag’s constituency ; ) )
@Paula Rose if that’s the case, he has a good chance of appealing to the Tories 😛
@Lanarkist says: 8 November, 2014 at 2:08 pm:
“Divide and conquer! Shetland has a wealth fund and now NEEngland to be bribed to allow desolation to their region!”
Now, Lanakist, ask yourself what party was in power that allowed Scots to be ripped off over all those years? What Party has now led the fight, (tooth, nail and dirty), to retain the Westminster Establishments grip upon those Scottish assets?
Also, how many of them now either sit on red leather benches while dressed in skunk tippit robes as a reward for such services rendered? Not to mention those with large Ministerial Pensions from their time in High Establishment office while racking up the present national debt?
The London Labour Party Branch office has-beens and never again will- be’s is the answer. The big joke is that their heartland constituencies are the most deprived and poverty stricken areas of both Scotland & the United Kingdom and yet some Scottish numpties still vote for them.
@Natasha
Re Craig Murray as MP, I think he will go for Alistair Darling’s vacant seat.
Whatever seat he does stand in, he’ll be a huge asset to the SNP and the people of Scotland. He will certainly shake things up down by.
Craig Murray standing for Parliament! That would be absolutely brilliant.
He is moving to Edinburgh and it would be great if he was selected as an SNP candidate in a good winnable seat in or around Edinburgh.
Craig Murray in Parliament – I would willing pay to go to see him rip apart the hypocrisy and corruption from Westminster Unionist MPs. I can think of few people who could be a worse nightmare for the Westminster establishment.
CRAIG MURRAY.
I am still adding to this blog. Included, since my last update Jim Naughtie, Andrew Marr, Jackie Ashley, Laura Kuenissberg, Douglas Alexander, (he is still work in progress).
An extract:
Marr, the author was allowed to launch his new book gaining full access to Downing Street together with a glowing introduction by David Cameron and many of the great and good of a number of political parties. One wonders just how favoured Marr must be to receive such gracious treatment from the unlovely Tory grandees he is supposed to be holding to account. Remarkably, an awkward question managed to breach the bonhomie. Liz Thomson, co-editor of the website ‘Book-Brunch’, asked Marr if having Cameron host the book launch ‘mightn’t compromise his position as impartial political interviewer for the BBC
d. Marr became ‘very defensive indeed’. Marr’s wife, Jackie Ashley – Guardian columnist and daughter of Lord Ashley of Stoke, buttonholed Thomson, declaring, ‘you’ve ruined my evening’. Ashley subsequently ‘resumed the harangue, calling [Thomson] ‘despicable’ and ‘a B-I-T-C-H’. It says plenty about the state of modern journalism that Ashley was appalled that one of the BBC’s most senior political journalists should be asked the one question that cried out to be raised. Or perhaps she would think nothing of her husband having his book launch party hosted by Putin, or Assad, or Maduro. Or, more to the point, of a leading Russian journalist teaming up with Putin in the same way.
http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/05/bbc-scotland-labour-party-mouthpiece-in-scotland-politically-corrupt-biased-public-inquiry-badly-needed/
Re: Craig Murray
Given that he’s been living in England for so many years, it isn’t obvious at first where he would stand. However, as a former student at Dundee Uni, a former Rector at that university, and a former Liberal, North East Fife seems ideally suited.
It’s quite a team being formed. Alex Salmond, Ivan McKee, Craig Murray. Shirley-Anne Somerville, Natalie McGarry and Tasmina Sheikh will also stand.
Given the SNP is currently 5:1 men/women, we really need to promote more women stand. The ratio at Holyrood isn’t too healthy either. That’s where some form of pro-indy agreement would be helpful. Imagine we had Ruth Wishart (or is she SNP anyway), Jeane Freeman, Elaine C. Smith, Lesley Riddoch, Michelle Thomson, Philippa Whitford and Cat Boyd all standing. Those are people I think would have a genuinely better chance than local SNP councillors.
I know this Devo Alliance thing has been done to death, but with two of the SNP Deputy candidates endorsing it, and Alex Salmond apparently favourable, it’s not dead in the water yet.
@ JM Mackintosh
Edinburgh, particularly Edinburgh West, was another place that entered my head. If he’s moving there, it’s probably more likely.
ever get the feeling youre being wound up..there deliberately taking the pish
The Anniversary of the Berlin Wall coming down is now, so we can do the same, brick by brick.Hopefully one of these days The British State will go a step too far for ALL Scots and hopefully that will be soon. This has to be publicised! We definitely won’t see this mentioned in the MSM in Scotland.
Great news about Craig Murray and Ivan McKee! I’m excited!
Angry Weegie-he doesn’t think it matters what the Scots think. By that I mean he thinks it’s irrelevant. They worked their little socks off before the Referendum to secure the No vote and succeeded. Order was restored and the good folk of Britain are back to normal-normal that is in the way the Osbournes of this world completely ignore the ‘regions’ as they see it. This stuff about a ‘power house’ is disgraceful. They’ve ignored the North of England for decades and now they want to use it as a foil to Scotland. They’re a disgrace. They can’t be gracious in victory. They have to rub it in.
Why did people vote No? Due to self-interest. I can’t decide whether to watch the Rugby or not. I don’t think I can bear the sound of Flower of Scotland sung by the No voters.
Having listened to Osbourne and watched the vidio, it’s difficult to find words to convey my feelings. I’ll have to settle for anger and frustration and try hard not to swear.
The look on Gordon Brewar’s face as he listens intently, conveys the impression that he is thinking. ‘Christmas, this is exactly what the leaders of the SNP have been telling us for decades and I doubted them.
It’s also what the Crone report laid out what should have been done 40 fuckin years ago. You know the report that West Minster hid from the Scottish people.
But that Twatt, Osbourne, well he is just a contemptuous bastard. To say what he said in the all consuming arrogant style he says it, just demonstrates his contempt for the Scots.
When are those among us, who voted NO, going to wake up, give themselves a good shake, and at least try and see just how foolish they have been. For heavens sake, get a grip and for once in your life, smell the fuckin coffee.
Sorry, I just had to, I couldn’t stop myself.
O/T Livestream should be broadcasting tomorrow from Barcelona as our Catalan friends vote on independence from their own completely corrupt and rotten hereditary-monarch, neo-liberal nightmare state (which did Cameron’s bidding and skewed our own vote with its lies about EU membership).
@Piemonteis
Given the SNP is currently 5:1 men/women, we really need to promote more women stand.
I’m a woman! I’ll stand! (Okay, I’d need to be a stiltwalker to be seen, but I can learn. Anyway, the female of the species is more deadly, even if she can only reach your kneecaps).
@ Piemonteis — Yes, we definitely need more lassies! They are our greatest asset. Mhairi Black is also one to watch and should be put up in one of the Labour heartlands in Glasgow (if they still exist, of course).
Incidentally, Norway has calculated that the prominent role of women in their society contributes more than does their oil revenue — and their oil revenue is nothing to be laughed at (30% of their economy).
@Piemonteis
I do not mind where Craig gets a seat as long as he gets in. Imagine Craig using Parlimentary immunity to open the lid on the dirty dealings of the British State! Jack Straw will not be a very happy man.
Also fully agree on your Women candidates – I would to see them ALL selected for Westminster or Holyrood. They would just be great at standing up for Scotland’s interests in place of these feeble Slab MPs & MEPs.
Dirty thieving bastards. “Create a powerhouse in North britain” it’s the bloody midlands when you look at the map of GB….. oh we don’t count
No voters must be told they have allowed England to squander OUR money . Now what are you gonna do about it ??
@Natasha, a Winger candidate! Won’t be any shortage of support 🙂
Osborne… God help me if I ever get within shouting distance of that piece of… I might suddenly develop a form of tourettes.
So its OK for Scotland’s oil/gas to be squandered for the benefit of all, but the North of England gets a shale gas sovereign wealth fund all to itself?
WTF?
A case of what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine.
Better Together my @rse!
Bastard, that’s all.
Just back from The Way Forward conf. Good news that Craig Murray
is in the process of putting his name forward as an SNP candidate, although he stressed that he would not “carpetbag” those who had been doing the groundwork for years.
Crowd wanted him to stand against crash(if he is standing). I got carried away and took the mike, astounded that people clapped for my wee bit. 🙂
Will this hit any mainstream news channel? Will any news outlet highlight the fact that Sir Ian Wood owns a large share in a fracking company, and that licences to frack all over the uk were agreed just before he decided there was hardly any oil left after all?
@Cherry Loudon
O/T previous thread – Welcome to Wings.
Sorry to hear about your vertigo as it can be very debilitating.
My sister in law had similar issues for many years and she eventually worked out that it was down to her diet – food additives and a wheat allergy in particular. She has to be very careful about her diet but she is not too bad now and has returned to full time employment.
Not sure if you tried cutting out wheat or other foo stuffs but it worked well for my sister in law. Normal medics were pretty hopeless in diagnosing the problem – hence you can probably tell I am not a medical doctor.
In fact I rarely use my Dr title in normal use but it was good for winding up trolls and unionist commentators in the paper comments. From now on I think I will drop it.
However, it was good to see the Alistair Darling has now retired from politics. I advised him months ago in my medical capacity to avoid stressful situations and finally he has listened to me. If only he had taking my advice earlier.
People voted no because they are afraid and dont trust politics or politicians. I don’t blame them personally. Project Fear’s an ongoing war on Scotland that started who knows when? The 1920’s? 30’s? North Sea oil transformed all of Norway into what life is like for middle and upperclass England but Scotland’s working class has been in decline since the first world war. Why did the likes of Gordon Brown, Flipper Darling and George Galloway think they could so blatantly lie about Scotland and Scotland would vote for them? The devil you know.
Continuing with the ‘oor wimin’ theme:
Women For Independence (@ approx 8min 35sec)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04n5q32/reporting-scotland-07112014
This about devolving more to the Manchester and creating a wealth fund is to deflect that the fracking will be in the North while it won’ be taking place in the South. I bet that most of the money made from this will go down south.
Second point – that bastard Brewer did this interview yet still behaved the way he did during the referendum.
My computer just survived as well.
Natasha
I have been savaged at the knee-caps by fox-terriers and wummin-terriers during my life.
On the whole, I better survived the fox terriers.
Ouch
OT but AWESOME
http://www.facebook.com/radicalindependence/photos/a.569180253123167.1073741829.566948540013005/803835792990944/?type=1&theater
Can’t I get that oil fund though right I mean its the UK’s if you aren’t giving me anything from Scotland’s oil in terms of an oil fund local to Scotland then you can get it right up ye if you think its fair to deliver a fund for the north of England and not us.
his words benifit England he never actually said all the shale oil and gas was from England just where it would be invested
O/T
grrrr
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/expectant-mother-of-two-says-inability-to-use-computer-has-left-her-without-cash-for-food-or-heat-1.668265
It’s called taking the piss out of Scotland and rubbing her face in their dirt of which they have plenty.
We will have the last laugh Osborne, unpleasant character if ever their was.
Does anyone think there will be any of that “pooling and sharing” going on with their North Britain fund?
I haven’t got the energy to get angry any more and nothing surprises me anyway. I did all my crying on the morning of the 19th and am now intent on working towards the GE and that means finding ways of getting the message across about the duplicity of mainstream parties.
@ Viking Girl
You might as well have a wee look at the rugby – the singing is past and the team are actually playing – could cheer you up for a wee while if they keep it up.
@ Dr JM Mackintosh
You must have a good bedside manner for a non-medic; glad Liebrows took your advice, LOL. 🙂
Piemonteis
It’s quite a team being formed. Alex Salmond, Ivan McKee, Craig Murray. Shirley-Anne Somerville, Natalie McGarry and Tasmina Sheikh will also stand.
Where did you get this information from? No SNP candidates have been selected yet.
Sorry to go off topic but I don’t know where else to put it. I don’t want to disrupt the thread so perhaps you can copy the link and watch it later…
This is a radical film. You will hear the story of how the NHS has been quietly abolished.
For more information: http://www.facebook.com/selloffnhs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ultKvnw2h3Q
David
What a picture. Makes me so fkn angry that Catalonians are more into Scottish Independence than we were. Wish them all the best.
Fuck. Time for the first franchise. Wings over North England.
South of England and tracking NIMBY
lets do it in the North.. but we better soften them up first by demonstrating what a fine caring fellow I am. And what a fine altruistic Conservative Party, who just want to look after you.
See, we are even putting a Mayor in Greater Manchester who will be able to explain the coming austerity much better.
London Power at it’s best.
Fuck. Time for the first franchise. Wings over North England.
South of England and fracking NIMBY
Lets do it in the North.. but we better soften them up first by demonstrating what a fine caring fellow I am. And what a fine altruistic Conservative Party who just want to look after you.
See, we are even putting a Mayor in Greater Manchester, who will be able to explain the coming austerity much better.
London Power at it’s best.
David
That picture has really moved me. Thank You sir.
Catalonia xx
@Natasha says: 8 November, 2014 at 4:58 pm:
@Piemonteis
“Given the SNP is currently 5:1 men/women, we really need to promote more women stand. Anyway, the female of the species is more deadly, even if she can only reach your kneecaps”.
Noo Lassie, I’m jist 5’4″ and almost an octogenarian. “”An wha daur meddle wi me?” is the motto, (in Latin, “Nemo me impune lacessit”), on the Scottish Coat of Arms”
Do you know the Borders Ballad, : –
““Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?”
Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?
Ma castle is aye ma ain,
An’ herried it never shall be,
For I maun fa’ ere it’s taen,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wi’ ma kit i’ the rib o’ ma naig,
Ma sword hingin’ doon by ma knee,
For man I am never afraid,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Fierce Bothwell I vanquished clean,
Gar’d troopers an’ fitmen flee;
By my faith I dumfoondert the Queen,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Alang by the dead water stank,
Jock Fenwick I met on the lea,
But his saddle was toom in a clank,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Whar Keelder meets wi’ the Tyne,
Masel an’ ma kinsmen three,
We tackled the Percies nine –
They’ll never mair meddle wi’ me.
Sir Harry wi’ nimble brand,
He pricket ma cap ajee,
But I cloured his heid on the strand,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
The Cumberland reivers ken
The straik ma airm can gie,
An’ warily pass the glen,
For wha daur meddle wi’ me?
I chased the loons doon to Carlisle,
Jook’t the raip on the Hair-i-bee,
Ma naig nickert an’ cockit his tail,
But wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Ma kinsmen are true, an’ brawlie,
At glint o’ an enemie,
Round Park’s auld Turrets they rally,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Then heigh for the tug an’ the tussle,
Tho’ the cost should be Jethart tree;
Let the Queen an’ her troopers gae whustle
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
North Britain gubbin Argentina at rugby, watched by ex-North British rugby players the Hastings brothers and their band of Unionist mates.
And to think they conned me all those years ago that they were actually fighting for Scotland.
BASTARDS!!!
Politics in Scotland is a spectator sport and we are not genetically programmed to make political decisions anyway. Only the other week, the PM replied to Nicoal Sturgeon’s question re. EU membership, by stating Scotland will do what England demands.
Get used to it or do something about it.
North england will need an oil fund so that they can clean up their enviroment after the fracking companys leave their countryside a disaster zone.
Read that the energy resources(water, fuel etc)needed to carry out the fracking process is more than what they take out.
Nana Smith says:
8 November, 2014 at 6:08 pm
“Sorry to go off topic but I don’t know where else to put it. I don’t want to disrupt the thread so perhaps you can copy the link and watch it later…”
____________________
Nana,
Don’t worry about it, the continuity of the thread was disrupted long ago.
Turnball Drier
This is a No vote Scotland.
I am ashamed of the country i served once as a soldier.
David shows us a picture of support from Catalonia that warms your heart …..and then reality kicks in and we’re back to starving our kids. How can you sanction children FFS .
What happened to this once great country?
During the miners strikes no one went hungry. In Thatcher Years the disabled were better off and cared for .
Now the disabled are abused. The children starved and cold. No jobs and shitty wages. when did WE stop caring about our own?
Has it always been like this and i am missing something ?
What a shit hole this country has become.
🙁
@Muttley79
Sorry, I missed out the word “probably” or “set to”. I was just looking at the names of candidates in recent by-elections and EURO elections who failed to be voted in.
The problem the SNP face is that, in previous elections they’ve had candidates voted in who have a few shots at the same seat, and presumably gained local recognition (e.g. Dennis Robertson, Chic Brodie, Paul Wheelhouse), whereas almost all of them are now at Holyrood.
I calculated that only 9 candidates who stood in constituencies in 2011 didn’t win a seat either in the constituency itself or on the list, one of whom has since left the SNP for racism.
That means there will be few recognizable candidates from past elections. I also presume other perrenial candidates like Aileen Orr, Andrew Doig, Anne McLaughlan and Chris Stephen will want to stand.
How Gideon loves to tease and prod the beast.
He has no intention of setting up anything to benefit ordinary people in the North of England or anywhere else. More likely a slush fund that’ll be controlled and operated by Gideon and his pals for the benefit of… Gideon and his pals.
Heard this earlier and had tears in my eyes and the worst thing was I didn’t know if it was tears of anger or sorrow. They have fucked us over and our fellow countrymen voted for more of the same 🙁
libertad para cataluña
There was nothing in the Vow about oil or fracking or other tax revenues but people still voted no.
So Osborne feels entitled to make whatever pronouncements on any issue he wants, because he has correctly identified Scottish voters as feeble useless wankers who are as capable of taking control of their own resources as a drunk lying in the gutter, and deserving of the same respect.
Anybody surprised?
I totally agree with getting more women to stand for MPs at the 2015 GE. The amount of talent we have in Scotland is amazing. I think about ten potential candidates could be picked from Women for Independence and Business for Scotland for example.
I’m in Douglas Alexander’s constituency and oh how I would love someone like Lesley Riddoch or Jeanne Freeman to go up against my little resident rodent MP, Alexander.
C’mon ladies get signed up, you’re country needs you.
@caz-m
I wonder why our Scottish commen("Tractor" - Ed)s at the rugby are wearing the English version of the poppy, they then wonder why we rail against them. This from poopyscotland website….
Since Earl Haig first launched the Poppy Appeal in Scotland in 1921, we have always had our own unique design. The Scottish poppy features four petals, whereas the poppy produced by the Royal British Legion for the Appeal in England, Wales and Northern Island has two petals and a green leaf
The Keiser Report Episode 676 dealt with US fracking at 5 min 58 sec. It’s basically a ponzi scheme financed by junk bonds because the cost of getting the oil out is greater than the profit.
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/202535-episode-max-keiser-676/
Most likely North Region won’t have any profit to put in its sovereign investment fund.
@caz-m
Most of the names mentioned could stand almost anywhere, although it would also be preferred if they stood somewhere local to them, or somewhere they have some connection with.
Lesley Riddoch, however, should be encouraged to stand either in Orkney and Shetland, or Argyll & Bute, since I think those are the areas that she could work best for in terms of achieving real local democracy. Can you imagine her standing up against the UK Government for Orkney and Shetland, especially with the autonomy promised to the Islands prior to the referendum. I think she’d become a hugely popular MP.
However, I think it’s down to the local Yes groups, SNP groups or other community groups to make that proposal.
@caz-m
I thought it was the british ‘c’ team against Argentina.
I used to be passionate about rugby, but the unionist support from ‘our’ rugby players have killed that. Watching a game that would once have gladdened my heart with utter dispassion.
@caz-m (this may duplicate 2nd try 🙁 )
I thought it was the british ‘c’ team against Argentina.
I used to be passionate about rugby, but the unionist support from ‘our’ rugby players have killed that. Watching a game that would once have gladdened my heart with utter dispassion.
So what the Tories want to do is create a buffer between us and them. That is it really.
I know I said I would,nt comment on this thread,but somthing I remembered from the past Osbourn,s father in Law is Lord Howell & he is a shareholder in these Fracking company,s.
Somthing for our Ferrets to get their teeth into,might be in our Archives from last year.
Re the rugby, me to. Cant raise any interest and I think it’s the same in the crowd – quietest I’ve ever heard Murrayfield with Scotland winning
As a newbie here, I’d like to comment on the GE hopes. I was Craig Murray’s ex election agent in Norwich North. Can only say that whoever lands him as a candidate, will finda man who listens and acts up to his stated principles. His excellent knowledge of foreign affairs would make him a formidable speaker on this matter, dare I say that his surpreme knowledge on marine and other borders, he negotiated some of them, is of exceptional value. One of his main attributes is that he lacks the pomposity of a party politicians, what you see is Craig. I’m proud to have been working with him as a true Independent and given the chance, would jump at it to help in his SNP campaign. Craig is a man of substance and excellent communication skills, in any debate and or negotiation.
my best to all,
PS gender balance is proper representation,imho
@ Piemonteis says: 4.37
A good list and you can add Tommy Sheppard former assistant general secretary of the Labour Party in Scotland as another big hitter although SNP do need more high profile women candidates.
@Wingman 2020 I like the way you play Wings over Nth England,can I expand on it much. WINGS over Britain,cause sure as God made little crab apples the British Bullshit Corperation wont be tell the british people the Truth at any time.
Paula Roae @4.17,
Naughty!
Think I’ll pass on the rugby, completely turned off the sport. Now, if it were tennis or surfing, then it would be an entirely different story!!
I am sure Craig will receive a very warm welcome at westminister! Especially as a SNP member.
Talk about a cat among the pigeons!
Re Rugby: Surely they never sang FoS along with the sponsor RBS “i’m out of here bank” logo?
Cannae work these no voters oot
They are all on Andy Murray’s case before the ATP finals, the boy has nothing to apologise for and it makes me sick to see this sort of shit on STV news. Andy is Scottish he plays tennis he supported independence get over it teamgb
(@ cearc – I know, glad someone got the joke)
I was wondering whether Ivan would stand this morning. If he isn’t going to then surely he would have been better staying a non-party spokesperson, so I rather think that he will.
Bob Agassi
I see a lot of people wavin’ Saltires at Murrayfield today, they must be American tourists.
I’m not usually given to swearing, but this man is a scumf**k and morally reprehensible F***c***t who needs to get his nobf**k head around this message: “You, Sir, are a prize c***t. May all your jobbies be hedgehogs.” Is that OK? I don’t want to offend any f****r, or anything.
@Robert Peffers 6.21pm
I didn’t know that ballad, but it certainly sums up the Borders! A hard folk to persuade if your family hasn’t lived there for at least 400 years . . . 🙂
If Ozzy is serious about a fund for the North of Engerland ( which I personally think is a load of BOLLOCKS) we must show this to every No voter in Scotland, I am pretty sure the media will keep this low down on the news agenda. If the no voters have any brain cells they must accept Independence is the only answer for Scotland. The rest of the world is laughing at us for not having the bollocks to vote Yes.
We WILL DEMAND another Referendum
Gary (A VERY RESTLESS NATIVE)
@Ronnie 7:02pm
I posted a link at 4:01pm Ronnie.
Cherry Loudon – have you tried acupuncture? It worked for my daughter who had struggled with constant headaches for nearly a year. None of the conventional medicines we tried had any effect whatsoever. I have no idea why it works, but who cares as long as it helps?
Reply to Croompenstein
On the EBC news/sports thingy they said that Andy needs to win fans back after coming out for Independence. Why? He only needs to keep winning for international support. He does not need to do a Sir Chris Hoy and cringe all the way to the Butcher’s Apron.
X_Sticks
I feel your pain, they have robbed us of something. We shouldn’t feel like this when we watch our national team.
But we do.
Hastings and Co have a lot to answer for.
@ Sinky
I believe Tommy Shephard is from Liberton, so Edinburgh South?
This is quite a decent list we could make.
@Nana Smith
Cheers for that video link because all politicians should be forced to watch it especially the Labour mob.
Kenny says:
8 November, 2014 at 7:12 pm
“Think I’ll pass on the rugby, completely turned off the sport. Now, if it were tennis or surfing, then it would be an entirely different story!!”
You’ll need a BBC Licence to watch those RBS sponsored Unionist ("Tractor" - Ed)s and their parasitical patron saint mascotty sponger thingy type bovine.
___________________
Croompenstein says:
8 November, 2014 at 7:21 pm
“They are all on Andy Murray’s case before the ATP finals, the boy has nothing to apologise for and it makes me sick to see this sort of shit on STV news. Andy is Scottish he plays tennis he supported independence get over it teamgb”
Correct, he’s truly one of us and an attack on one Yesser is an attack on us all. Talking of which, INGURLAND, how did yer match go against The All Blacks, eh. What’s that now, 4 defeats in a row is it? Jeeezo, no very good at a game you claim to have invented, are you?
btw, Any further news on the Kiwi’s replacing that BNP bogroll on their flag with the silver fern yet?
I am not sure that naming people who have not even been selected as SNP candidates is a good idea. Remember the old adage, loose lips sink ships…
O/T a bit, but I would appreciate the groupthink.
I have always purchased a poppy, and always given paper for it. However the military – red arrows for instance – was one of the states tactics deployed against us. Same with the Stirling Army Day damp squib. I know the UK gets involved in a lot of pointless conflicts, and they all produce veterans who in any event shouldn’t be reliant on charity.
Anyways, on the grounds that the over 65’s overwhelmingly defeated our position, and the flag wappers include a lot of military types, should I buy a poppy this year at all?
@ Jim Thomson my minds at rest now i have complete faith in our ferrets to find things, ? whats that film call again Total ****** ah think am in wizard of oz,if I only had a *****
memory,s gone again.
O/T
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3569539?origin=event_published&mixpanel_id=1424dccc6d46c-03bbf05714b5f78-7e6a1335-13c680-1424dccc6d691&acc_id=8420912&medium=email
@davidb
I had a cousin who met and married in Berlin (UNRA and British Army). Her husband was an RSM in regular army and NEVER bought a poppy. His view was that Scottish money, at least helped pay a retainer to a retired brigadier who hadn’t even been wounded!
Don’t know why everyone is getting upset about this. Osbourne has decided to sacrafice the lone Scottish Tory MP for 7 or 8 in the north of England and at the same time handing the SNP a stick to beat SLAB with. A good tatical move on his behalf. I don’t think he appecites the long term affect of this.
@Muttley
Of course, you’re quite right.
Although in my defence, I will say that it’s a case of mindless conjecturing rather than “loose lips”.
It is, however, important to bring attention to the female talent that should be encouraged to stand for election next year.
Davidb
I was surprised with the number of people not wearing a poppy today in Kirkcaldy. I don`t wear a poppy, in my mind the poppy is now part of the warnography that now exists in this green and very unpleasant land.
The poppy has been hi-jacked to glorify war not remember the war dead.
@ X-sticks and caz-m
I didn’t have the heart to watch the game. I certainly didn’t want to hear that team sing Flower of Scotland. I don’t think I could have stood to hear it and not either fly into a rage of frustration or burst into tears.
I’ll never forgive BT or WM for what they’ve taken.
Cherry Loudon – The SNP are looking for telephone canvassers. You can go to their website and it is under ways you can help…
I too have very mixed feelings over poppies. London Transport was broadcasting appeals from Stephen Fry, Joanna Lumley, etc., asking people to give generously. I certainly agree with charity. But, once again, this seems to me like Dave Cameron’s “big society” scam: get private individuals to do what should be done by the state (and why the state should not allow tax dodging).
When the Post Office was sold off, why were shares not allocated to veterans’ charities? Surely if the nationalised industries belong to anyone, they belong above all to those who saved them from a foreign, hostile power?
That is why I believe that all privatisation is a crime (theft), especially when it is really appropriation by members of the Conservative Party, no matter what Margaret Thatcher liked to tell us (to be honest, I think she was a woman of very limited intelligence and actually believed what she was saying).
The whole paraphanalia of poppies, military uniforms, union flags, queen laying wreaths at cenotaphs (the royal family was allegedly only concerned about: could they stay on in power in event of a Hitler takeover?) makes me queasy. I also think all those who died would want the living to campaign to ensure there are no more wars — and certainly no weapons of mass destruction in Scotland, an abomination which is illegal under international law.
Tommy Sheridan proposes removing the statues of generals from Freedom Square and replacing them one day with monuments to the likes of John Maclean. I would agree with that — and a monument to the events of 31 January 1919 in that same square.
@ Paula Rose
Didn’t see you there. Unless you were under the radar in kitten heels.
Poppies?
Kinda looks like a moat..or..a big river of blood
I do’nt know if commemorate is the right word or not, but what i have noticed is everybody going to see it seems happy, and i’m not sure what to think about that, except, they’re queing in their thousands to be reminded how many people died in wars for, what was it again? Oh peace, that’s right, well i suppose the soldiers are at peace, but i still dont know what to think about the big river of blood that seems to bring such joy, it does not make me feel good to look at this, and i do know what to think about that…
Craig Murray said he had promised before the Referendum to return to live in Scotland if the result was Yes, but the result was No.
However, he feels that the momentum for Independence is now unstoppable, so he has today filled in the form to stand as a Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for the SNP and he moves into his new flat in Edinburgh on Thursday.
If only someone had thought “Naw lets no join this union”. Just mulling over tonight what a different country we would be now. I don’t know why Nationalism in the sense we support, frightens people. It is a safe and good way of thinking about ourselves, living within our own borders ,and taking care of our own people, according to our own values. Listening to a programme today about Mgt Thatcher ,and how she was disappointed that the Berlin Wall came down, as it perhaps posed a threat from the Germans yet again. In spite of constantly berating Russia for the wall being there, she actually thought it a good thing. pOLITICIANS CAN NEVER TELL THE TRUTH ON ANYTHING
All above
Please remember that there are two Poppy Appeals.
One for Scotland and the other for the rest, that is US in Scotland.
We have a four petal Scots remembrance poppy, they have the two leaf type.
I am not suggesting anything against one or other of the two Appeals but, on is based in England and, bearing in mind the mix within “Scottish” regiments and the reception and treatment of the injured, please be careful of thinking that certain appeals reach into Scotland.
I could well be wrong with the above can anyone, seriously, correct me, wrt what I think.
Thanks
BtP
Craig Murray also said that he had not been seconded as a PPC, so there was nothing confirmed.
He didn’t want to carpetbag, or stand in an easily winnable seat, but he would LOVE to stand against Gordon Brown or Douglas Alexander or a few other names I didn’t catch because by that point the crowd had erupted into applause.
This was in Kirkcaldy. Tick tock Gordon, tick tock.
I don’t know where the five to one men against women figure in the SNP comes from. My branch has 74 women out of a total membership of 160 (at the last count),
I note all has gone quiet on the Murphy front in the media. What is going on I wonder. Has somebody noticed half the Scottish Labour Party hate him
X-Sticks – thought for a long time about watching today’s Rugby game. I consoled myself with the thought that surely one of the players was not an “I’m a proud Scot but”. Couldn’t watch them singing “Flower” though. On the poppy business – this state called Britain is obsessed with war and itself. My wife and I both bought a white poppy (to commemorate ALL war dead) from our AYE POD in Bruce Street, Dunfermline!
davidb says:
8 November, 2014 at 7:59 pm
O/T a bit, but I would appreciate the groupthink.
I have always purchased a poppy, and always given paper for it. However the military – red arrows for instance – was one of the states tactics deployed against us. Same with the Stirling Army Day damp squib. I know the UK gets involved in a lot of pointless conflicts, and they all produce veterans who in any event shouldn’t be reliant on charity.
Anyways, on the grounds that the over 65’s overwhelmingly defeated our position, and the flag wappers include a lot of military types, should I buy a poppy this year at all?
_______________________
David,
I always wore a wee metal poppy badge, kept permanently on my hat. Therefore, it was out in public nearly every day of the year.
A few years ago i started to get angry and annoyed at what i seen as certain “Brit type bastards” starting to hijack the poppy as that which belonged solely to them.
Then there came, and still is, this growing pressure from various establishment sources that we MUST wear a poppy – to be seen without a poppy is treated akin to some heinous crime.
Now, i could go on about this subject all night but i’m not going to. At the end of the day the choice should be down to the individual.
Do you want to wear one? What type of poppy do you want to wear?
And the most important question of all – WHY do you want to?
I no longer wear one, that’s my right, that’s my choice, because i will not be dictated to, i will not be pressurised and i dare any Brit clown to even try and question me on not wearing one.
I don’t have to be told when and how to remember others, especially when there’s hardly a day goes by when i don’t think about them, war and atrocities.
I have my own private thoughts and remembrances. Every day.
btw, Those very “flag wappers” you mention are not the people you would be remembering, are they, because they’re alive.
😉
Just my own opinion – hope this helps
With both kind of tories,you actually need to go over everything they say in their interviews and speeches,for connotations and possible double meanings,(because there are always some) as well as what they do or, (sometimes even more importantly)they don’t say.
Thon Indyref campaign woke a lot of people up,it will never be the same for the main uk parties,saying things in one part of the uk then the opposite (or omitting what you promised elsewhere)in another part won’t wash any more.
Dave McEwan Hill – read earlier in the Scottish Statesman that another union has come out for Neil Findlay and SS thinks that Murphy’s goose is cooked. Not sure that I agree – I believe that like everything to do with Labour it will be fixed. Murphy will win!
It’s called “Remembrance Day” so you don’t forget whose in charge.
“Scotland, know you’re limits.”
They can shove their Poppies.
I don’t know about anyone else – but I don’t need one day to remind me of the horror of war, it’s difficult to get through any day without a reminder. I want to live in a country that values life as a unique experience to be cherished, I want that to include a country called Scotland.
Sorry for the typo should have been poppyscotland not poopy but in answer to davidb I would still contribute to the ex-servicemen charities but not so sure I would wear the poppy as it has been hijacked by the establishment
Re Poppy Appeal: Just have to watch the establishment/ruling classes at tomorrow’s ceremony in London, the same shower or ancestors of the bunch who created the wars in the first place.
Ronnie Anderson
Forgot to post up the pic from George Sq below the famous “horse’s arse”.
GingerDug with dug, caz-m, Mr Smart SSP(I think), badge maker from Callander and our friend from Catalonia.
No Ronnie Anderson.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rrxfud&s=8
I bought a poppy every year, even when it was a dying symbol (no pun intended). However, with the advent of Team Britain wall to wall propaganda and the usurping of ‘Remembrance’ by ‘Glorification’, I’ve declined to buy one.
It now seems to represent a badge of loyalty…and I mean that in an OO/True Brit sense. I would guess that in show business it is now de rigeur from what I’ve seen on the telly, and probably in certain sections of the West of Scotland, in demonstrating you are on the right side…and not a potential ‘conchie’ or something just as shameful.
I just caught the end of some more of the ongoing Warfest on BBC…it was a thoughtful one about the dead of the First war. But it jarred as ever…mention of ‘Thankful villages’. Apparently, these were the fortunate ones ‘in the kingdom’ that had all the servicemen return. Well I may be wrong, but I am sure that one Scottish historian pointed out that no such village or town existed in Scotland, so horrific was our losses….maybe the 147,000 dead Scots belonged to a different kingdom.
I know everyone doesn’t have the chance to read all the comments but as I posted much earlier in the thread, Osborne is playing politics,don’t believe a word of it:
This is clever trap set by the Tories for the Labour Party. If Geordie George, the Chancer of the BlankChequer is trying to sell the idea of economic Nirvana to the Labour heartlands in the north of England, it will cause big problems for the Labour party:
The Labour Party will be obliged to support the idea or lose votes. However, support for such an idea flies in the face of the Labour One Nation mantra and the concept of pooling and sharing across the UK would be killed stone dead. Additionally, any positive discussion about the idea within Labour would inflict further serious damage to the relationship between the UK and Scottish branch offices.
Devious, but smart politics.
Female candidates- we have some great people who would cause such a stir at WM. Exciting times ahead.
I remember the day when rugby fans booed the Jelly Bean song and demanded a Scottish National Anthem in the days when the SFA were genuflecting for Knichtiehoods and pandering to the Old Firm.
What has made them change?
My wee boy is taking part in tomorrows remembrance service as part of his beavers group. He came home a couple of weeks ago with the words to the song they will be singing to practise it, the song they are singing is God Save The Queen.
I was incandescent when he came home with this but how do you explain to a six year old about teamgb and it’s pish. I told him not to sing it but just mime along.. he said will I just sing God Save Alex Salmond… just stick with the miming son I said…
Why did successive UK governments not go down the route of creating a sovereign oil fund (and never will?)
A UK fund worth hundreds of billions earning billions of interest every year would be the biggest advert for Scottish independence conceivable, and it would grow and grow and grow in potency with every passing year.
And if they devolved oil revenues now or simply created a Scottish oil fund now? Ditto.
The last thing Westminster government has wanted throughout my lifetime is to build a prosperous, fair United Kingdom FOR IT’S CITIZENS. Sovereign oil fund sounds a little bit like the people in ownership.
Next thing we know the people might want a piece of the cake.
As for the North of England – I’d be all for standing candidates there just to mix things up. The message is true.
Can you imagine if the SNP ditched the S and began taking the fight south?!
ronnie anderson at 7.11pm says
“the British Bullshit Corperation wont be tell the british people the Truth at any time.”
Ronnie -you’re spot on with that assertion. Every statement they make now means I have to check it out online. E.g-the announcement on Friday that they’ve got the payment of £1.7 billion to the EU halved after kicking up a fuss. Bloody lies-all they’ve done is defer payment into the next financial year & as we were due to be paid our rebate shortly the £1.7 billion will be offset against that. We can’t trust anything the government or BBC tells us. The press are now going after Osborne because a couple of EU bods issued statements saying what had really happened.
If I want to know anything-I go online or watch RT news never BBC or Sky. Channel 4 isnt quite as bad but they have their moments.
And as for democracy-forget it. It doesn’t exist-speak out & you are publicly attacked. Definitely not healthy here in England 🙁
Both the government & BBC/MSM are an embarassment
What fun there will be in some parts of the Labour Party if Murphy doesn’t win. After all he has given up his shadow post and that’s already been given to Arswar. One thing Labour is good at is stabbing each other in the back.
I haven’t looked at all the comments, but if you you voted NO, you’re a dick.
And i’d quite like UDI.
There’s just no point in being polite about it.
Have never worn one . God only knows how many soldiers ,men women and children have died over the centuries as a result of Britains involvement in conflicts. The field of poppies would cover the world let alone the Tower of London grounds. I do not blame the soldiers, but rather the maggots who send them and who then try to drip with sincerity when they are killed or maimed. The poppy has become politicised, and is no longer a simple token of rememberance for those who never returned from the hell into which they were sent.
@ Croompenstein — Your son has the right idea, “God Save the SFM” …. hope he will soon have the whole troop indoctrinated — or, rather, de-indoctrinated.
Are Muslims supposed to sing “Allah Save the Queen”? And Buddhists? They don’t have a god, will “Buddha Save the Queen” do?
And why would God even be remotely interested in a rather greedy and selfish, inbred, old woman anyway? I always wonder if she was purring down the line when the news came in from Paris about Diana…
Croompenstein
“God save Alex Salmond” haha 🙂
Thought this was done well C:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=737917352963794&set=a.167779926644209.44601.100002366096644&type=1&theater
Stopped buying poppies last year – the glorification and intimidation of public figures over the choice to wear one or not was becoming too much. And the Tower of London moat thing this year is just cringeworthy.
So I decided to make a donation directly to the Erskine Hospital instead. They don’t need me or others agonising over the moral issues surrounding the wearing of a bit of plastic, they just need a few quid.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
8 November, 2014 at 9:33 pm
“What fun there will be in some parts of the Labour Party if Murphy doesn’t win. After all he has given up his shadow post…”
That would have made even more sense without the word “post” at the end.
Excellent stuff and sure to go viral!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=737917352963794&set=a.167779926644209.44601.100002366096644&type=1&theater
Cadogan Enright
Absolutely brilliant-backstabbers the lot of them.
Was Lamont’s not the loser at her election but the union vote tipped the balance in her favour, the winner a guy called McIntosh won the party members vote, whatever that is? and went quietly back to being a mouse. He aint having another crack at it anyhow.
Lollysmum 9.29pm
“If I want to know anything I go online or watch RT news…”
Lollysmum,
It’s amazing to find out from RT TV that there is actually other things happening in the world.
UK broadcasters have definitely got us brainwashed. And this has been happening for years, long before the internet and multi channel viewing.
No wonder so many older people voted to stay within Mother UK.
God has her work cut out – so much saving to do.
Poppy overkill on news programmes is what really did for me. I used to buy one but not anymore. In recent years I’ve seen a BBC reporter down a cave sporting one, a farmer being interviewed in a field in his workclothes with one and a Sky reporter wearing one while doing a piece to camera on a Chinese street!
If it was just a commemoration of WW1 and WW2 I’d maybe still buy one but when it encompasses everything that the glorious UK has been involved in over the years then quite frankly they can do one and I only wish I had come to my senses many years ago.
I used to get a white poppy to wear, sometimes one red and one white, but it’s all got too political in recent years.
I’ll be out tomorrow ringing bells half-muffled, that is a very old and poignant tradition.
Served for 25 years in the R Signals and left a number of very good friends in various places around the world. I don’t need a day in November to remember them, they’re never all that far from my thoughts.
I don’t buy a poppy and wouldn’t, on principle, contribute to the BL there are many other service charities which do a much better job of providing assistance to both serving and ex-service personnel and their families. SSAFA in particular goes out of it’s way to be of aassistance and is worthy of support.
The `Royal British Legion `has accepted major sponsorship from one of the world’s largest war contractors the American company Lockheed Martin.
The `Royal British Legion has been criticized over there distorsion of Eric Bogles Anti War song No Man’s Land (Green Fields Of France) by leaving certain verses out especially the last verse which highlights the never ending futility of war.
Ah young Willie McBride, I can’t help wonder why,
Do those that lie here know why did they die?
And did they believe when they answered the cause,
Did they really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the pain,
The killing and dying, were all done in vain.
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
Bribes – HS3 now Fracking revenues. What more can George pull out of the debt-ridden hat to win passing votes in NE Englnd where peope did vote Tory. In Scotland £Billions of Oil tax revenues (secretly) went South. Scotland has one Tory MP, in Westminster. The rail line from the Central belt to the North of Scotland has no been electrified.The CohDems increased Oil tax revenues in Scotland 11% (£2Billion) a year. Now up to 90% Oil revenues have fallen Scotland has lost £4Billion+ a year, since 2011, enough to electrify the Railway in Scotland.
Under Osbourne’s administration. Taxes have fallen (especially) for the wealthiest and the Defict has risen. According to the Telegraph, the UK Gov deficit/debt has risen from £80Billion to £1500Billion, under Osbourne’s administration. Debt repayments are now £52Billion a year. People are being sanctioned and left starving and having to access food banks. Illegal wars are still killing innocent people and causing migration.
If there`s one thing to come out of the referendum,it`s that a lot of Scots have had their eyes open to the blatant state propaganda that passes for the msm.
Have been sceptical of all state media since the Iraq WMD lie that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. I wonder if a wreath will be laid at the cenotaph tomorrow for them.
Due to the number of Orwellian references of late, I decided to read 1984 again after almost 30 years. British state Establishment must use it as a bible! Insoc…Airstrip One…Ministry of Love…Perpetual War…Ministry of Truth…Thought Crime…Double Speak, the list goes on. Starting to feel more like Winston Smith everyday.
Re SNP candidates, Chris Law, Spirit of Indy, and Richard Arkless, Business for Scotland, have both applied, Richard hoping to stand against Russell Brown in D&G. Can’t wait to see the full line up of SNP candidates, think it’s going to be mighty impressive
Off Topic, but very significant, and should be shared far and wide – this is the type of thing that will make a huge difference in the GE.
The UK is the first Govt. to be investigated for violations of a grave and systemic nature. The enquiry procedure is to be carried out by the UN. I knew certain Disability Groups were going through the EU processes, so don’t know if this is as well as that.
http://scotyes.com/?edition_id=d62fee90-6769-11e4-83ff-0025907210e9&utm_campaign=paper_sub&utm_medium=email&utm_source=subscription
HELP,
Does anyone out there have the knowhow to do a little alteration
on this for me before i print it off.
https://archive.today/oCowy
I’m looking for someone to add a white strip right across the
bottom of this. Height = roughly enough to cover Skeletors tie.
And print the words, in capitals, on the white:
“FILTHY RED TORY COLLABORATORS”
Nice one Cadogan.
🙂
Really good to see Business for Scotland getting involved with the SNP, they are just the right people to take on the Tories. I would put Michelle Thomson or Ivan McKee up against that gormless numpty Mundell (really, it is an insult that we even have one Tory in Scotland) and I feel that Lesley Riddoch would be perfect to chase out Charles Kennedy or any other Lib Dem MP in a rural area… The SNP has never had such a momentum behind it as it has now and I am beginning to feel that, if all the potential is realised, up to 40 MPs is a distinct possibility…
Sorry my friends I’m not remembering the poppy’s or past anymore, I’m now regretting the missed opportunity that my fellow countrymen/women have decided to bequeath my grandchildren and their children to a better future.
I trust all these cowardly voters will enjoy their rewards!
I’d be disturbed if Craig Murray got through the SNP vetting process, and even more disturbed at the idea of him joining our fantastic team of Westminster MPs. I think people need to look a lot less enthusiastically in that direction to be honest. He could do the party a lot of damage in a lot of ways.
I saw people on Twitter saying he was definitely going to stand, but unless he gained approval as a prospective candidate at some time in the past, he can’t have been through the approval process yet. So I guess we’ll see. I hope the approval committee isn’t as easily dazzled as all that.
I’m intrigued by the list of people being promoted by posters here. It takes quite some thought to consider abandoning an established career to move to London and get involved in Westminster politics. I’ve nothing but admiration for the peope who do it, but it’s not everyone who would want to or realistically be able to.
Why would an experienced consultant surgeon even think of such a thing? Her patients need her far more than the SNP whips do. Would a journalist like Lesley Riddoch contemplate doing this? I don’t know. I don’t even know if either lady is even a member of the SNP! As far as I know they’re not.
Getting the right candidates, especially with the double whammy of a lot of the 2010 candidates now sitting in Holyrood and a lot of the WM seats suddenly looking winnable, is going to be a big job. I hope we can get the right people. And I hope the vetting committees keep their feet on the ground.
I suppose I’m going to get yelled at again for saying this, but it’s what I think. I think Craig Murray is a loose cannon who has created a fan club for himself, and I can’t see him as a team player in what will undoubtedly be a difficult and demanding situation.
Well, it’s not up to me, and it’s not up to anyone else here either. We’ll see what happens.
Can’t wait to see the full line up of SNP candidates, think it’s going to be mighty impressive
Right Rev Stu get yer hat in the ring, if Craig Murray and Ivan can dae it you would be a shoe in
The list of candidates for the SNP would be the envy of any nation.
Erskine Hospital could do with your support. Real victims of war and their families helped and all by charitable contributions. And how about the white poppy for civilian casualties?
Hi Morag honey xx
Ivan McKee only tweeted that he’d decided to join the SNP three days ago. I don’t imagine his membership has been processed yet, even if he’s sent it in already. There’s a long way to go between deciding to join a political party and being selected as a PPC for a constituency. And not very long to do it in.
As far as I know, there’s a rule about having to be a party member for a certain length of time before being able to stand as a candidate. I thought it was two years. It’s been waived in the past (in particular for people like Dick Douglas who defected from another party and obviously wanted to defend their own seats) and no doubt it can be again but it’s not automatic.
There’s also the selection process which I believe is quite taxing, with all sorts of tests and scrutiny and role-playing scenarios and so on. Nobody can just roll up and expect to be adopted as a formality.
Personally I think Ivan McKee would be a fantastic candidate and is exactly the sort of person the party needs. However, the man has a life and a career, and that life is in Scotland. Would he want to chuck all that in to move to London and join the struggle that is the SNP MP’s life in Westminster?
I don’t know. I’d admire him even more if he did, but I don’t think anyone can make any assumptions in that or any other department. I think some people need to get their feet back on the floor.
X_Sticks and others.
I still ‘buy’ a poppy every year (I’m a Vet). Last couple of years, I’ve replaced the black bit with a wee lion rampant tie pin. (I’m also ex-BCAL).
This year, however, I’ve used the wee goldy YES badge, which I’ve continued to wear since 20/9. It’s attracted looks, but no comments.
I also used to be an avid Scottish rugby fan, though FoS has always sounded too much of a funereal dirge to me anyway.
Today, busied myself with making a prawn biryani, wincing at the FoS, but taking sneaky peeks to see what the team were doing.
They did well, but somehow I am not enthused by their victory.
Wonder why?
Hi Paula, sweetie. Have you seen a list of SNP candidates? I haven’t. As far as I know, the only people on it at the moment are those who were approved in the past, probably the people who were approved for 2010 and 2011 (and elections before then) but didn’t get in. (As far as I know, simply being approved as a council candidate doesn’t get you on to the parliamentary candidate list.)
I don’t believe the vetting process for people who would like to get on the list de novo for 2015 has taken place yet. So actually we have very little idea who might be standing. We’re going to need some good people, that’s for sure, and some big-hearted people, to give up their current lives and careers and go all the way to London to work on our behalf. And they need to be team players.
I don’t envy the vetting committee their job, but it’s not done yet so we don’t know the outcome.
Sunday Herald front page
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/531217831963410436/photo/1
As I posted before ,
“Pulling and Sharing” ……. Pulling all the Scottish money into London and Share it there.
What have we done ?
Good luck to the Catalans .
O/T Had a visit from an old pal who has a wee business in Fife area and recently lost a good member of staff to A@@Z@N . Pay was £4 an hour more which was too much for my friend to find to keep the lad .
The lad worked for 10 days only to find he is on a ZERO Hours contract and nae work for now . My pal says the young lad is phoning every week looking for any work . Its so wrong .
Ronnie, I’m a vet (as in I practise medicine on animals), and I find this military usage confusing.
I put money into a red poppy collecting tin because I thought it went to ex-servicemen who needed help, but I didn’t take a poppy, instead I put on a white one I bought online.
I’m now wondering if this is a reasonable thing to do or if even giving the red poppy cans (not Earl Haig any more, is that right) money is undesirable. One thing’s for sure, I won’t be wearing a red poppy again. It’s taken me a while, I always wore one, but I see it’s beyond saving as a symbol.
Nice one Marcia as always but why oh why would they put the word vow on the front page….FFS
@Natasha says: 8 November, 2014 at 7:24 pm:
“I didn’t know that ballad, but it certainly sums up the Borders! A hard folk to persuade if your family hasn’t lived there for at least 400 years . . .”
Never lived in the Borders myself but have family links to the Borders and right up via Haddington, Edinburgh, Leith, Fife, The Calders area, Dundee and Forfar. Yet the family is spread quite thinly on the ground these days.
Morag,
I’ve always seen it as a kind of duty, also a familial ‘in memoriam’. But, by this time next year, I am quite likely to feel that ‘enough is enough’, and that I can do as much, or better, without display.
drat, more oil exploration. http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1156/total-exploring-deep-with-huge-west-of-shetland-license-win/#.VF6icqtV0wY.twitter
“In what is seen as a huge commitment to their future in the UK, Total has won the right to prospect in some of the deepest waters west of Shetland where experts believe there could be a lot more oil and where oil giants BP have already had huge success with their Clair Field and Clair Ridge developments.”
On the subject of the poppy and how the Establishment and their MSM lackeys have turned it into a meaningless and fetishist brand of public compliance.
http://resistmilitarism.com/2014/11/07/black-poppy-appeal-lest-we-forget/
Ronnie, I was brought up to wear a poppy. It was the thing to do, and we remembered the fallen of the two great wars. I’m a terrible traditionalist, and even as others were turning away I said it was my choice to go on wearing one in the spirit it was originally meant. Or the spirit I was originally indoctrinated in, anyway. I even have an internet avatar with a poppy on it for use at this time of year. It’s not coming out this year or any other again.
For the past few years there’s been an element of showing the local worthies that an SNP member and independence supporter also knew her duty and wore a poppy. But no longer.
I’ve seen pictures of Rangers fans with poppies as a unionist symbol. I’ve seen a picture of an Orange Lodge member in a KKK hood, with a string of poppies and union flags in the background. I’ve seen pictures of children holding huge poppies while wearing t-shirts reading “future soldier”. That is profoundly shocking and who on earth thought it was a good idea. Marking these children out as the future body bags?
I see the armed forces used as part of the dirty tricks campaign to cheat us out of independence. That’s it. 60 years is long enough, no more red poppies.
Miliband getting hammered in the English Sundays.
Labour are in one helluva mess.
The Tories aren’t much better.
Yet the choice for the majority within the UK on May 2015 GE is,
Who do you want to run the UK?
1- The Blue Millionaires.
or
2- The Red Millionaires.
Morag,
Agreed.
@davidb says:
8 November, 2014 at 7:59 pm:
” … should I buy a poppy this year at all?
I know quite a few older than myself, (that’s 80 and upwards), who do not buy a poppy. The cause being the way the charity used to work, (and may still even do so). An old lady I knew was most bitter about the Earl Haig fund and it took quite a while before I found out why.
She had been married to a WWII veteran who returned from the war wounded and only fit for light duties. He was also rather uneducated so not able for office style work. Now the local representative for The charity was a local GP and ex-army officer. He had the power to decide who got, and who did not get, help. Her husband got nothing while some in the village who had not been further into foreign lands that to Aldershot while training got regular benefits. While the layd and her young family suffered great hardships.
My own opinion is that we must do what we can but that no ex-service person should have to depend upon charity. The government they fough for, and it is governments, not countries, that go to wars, should support them for the rest of their lives. The look well after the old Members of Parliament with both pensions, golden handshakes and more often than not membership of the HOL.
Boorach at 10.17
I’m former RLC and served 4 tours of Bosnia 1995 to 1999. There were many soldiers that lost their lives in that conflict form British Army including one of my friends but I would never wear a poppy. The only time I have ever worn one was when forced to by the Army. Since I left, I have never worn another.
The reason for this is that I am in my thirties. I do not know anyone that has given their life for these islands.
I can’t honestly stand for two minutes and remember anyone who fell for “this country” as I am too young. No one has died for this country(UK) since at least 1945.
Of course this is nearly treason these days. How dare I not support the murder of foreigners in the name of Tony, George, Dave and Obama.
I have to inform all that I went on holiday this year to the Somme and visited several British war graves. A sobering experience. I was very moved by the visit as was my family. There were more than a few “foreigners” in those WW1 graves alongside the Scottish lads. Foreigners of the british empire who have since gained independence. I don’t recall these foreigners ever getting any of the “love” that Scotland has received over the last two years for having the audacity to gain independence.
The friend I lost didn’t get a televised ride through Wootton Basset.
I am fully respectful of folks that thought they were giving their lives up for future generations such as myself.
If there were folks storming the beaches of Brighton I’d be first in the queue to repel them but the powers that be can fuck right off if they think i’d ever wear a poppy.
Morag
With a pool of 90-odd thousand to choose from, it would be a shame if the SNP did place strict time restrictions on how long people have been a member in order to stand. In any case, the example given, Ivan McKee, doesn’t necessarily have to stand for the SNP. The Yes/Devo Alliance isn’t yet off the table, so that would be one route.
Personally, I don’t know what might be the issues with Craig Murray, but if there are any, I’m sure the vetting procedure will look into it. If not, I think he’d make a great MP. I’d rather have a loose cannon represent me than a yes (small “y”) man.
You make a good point about leaving careers to join parliament, and the example given of an NHS Nurse probably would be unlikely to happen. However, I disagree on Lesley Riddoch. Surely, if the seat was the right one, it would be the ideal platform to implement the localist ideals she writes so strongly about. Although, clearly, only if there’s an alliance. I think for anyone in any occupation, if you were approached, you would at least feel you have to think about it.
Well, the example given was of a senior NHS consultant surgeon, actually. Not a nurse.
Lesley Riddoch only decided she was an independence supporter a few months ago, during the campaign. She has always been a devo-max sort of girl. Which is no bad thing these days, but something to point out. So far as I know, however, she isn’t an SNP member.
I think she would be an excellent MP, but I also have some doubts that now is too soon, when her opinions have been moving so quickly in recent months. She’s also finishing a PhD. If I were her I’d be extremely reluctant even to think about Westminster, but might give Holyrood in 2016 some consideration. If she decides to join the party, that is.
I don’t know what a “Yes Alliance” means for 2015, and I’m not sure anyone else does either. The various parties are busy selecting their candidates. Of course anyone can stand as an independent, against the SNP, and call themselves what they like, but that might not be terribly constructive.
I think we’ll just have to wait and see how all this works out. I still think relatively few of the new cohort of SNP members will go forward as 2015 candidates, either because they don’t get through the vetting or because they’re not prepared to sacrifice their careers and indeed their lives to do it.
It’s one thing to speculate, but reality is a horse of an entirely different colour.
Craig Murray has stood for parliament before, in England. He’s been round the block quite a few times. He has the sort of background that’s an absolute gift to any opponent or hostile journalist wanting to smear an SNP candidate. I just dread to imagine the sort of stuff McColm and Gardham would come up with.
He’s also extremely opinionated, sometimes with some quite bizarre opinions. He’s fond of making allegations on the basis of almost non-existent evidence. He jumps to conclusions and defends them to the death, even when they’re plumb wrong. He has a very high opinion of himself, fuelled by the adulation of a fan club he’s managed to construct round his sensationalist blog. But you can’t dine out forever on the basis of once having been in the diplomatic service.
The very idea of someone like that as a member of the SNP Westminster group brings me out in a cold sweat. I can only hope the vetting committee isn’t easily dazzled.
Ffs I can’t stand this poopy shite. There are far too many complete self obsessed idiots spouting rubbish.
The poppy is not a political symbol. It’s got nothing to do with the establishment.
Wearing it is simply a mark of respect for the poor bastards who have died. It doesn’t matter to me what other clowns think about it. To me it’s about young guys and girls who gave their lives. I don’t care if it was for England, Scotland, Wales , Norther Ireland, the uk of simply because they were soldiers and did their duty. They are dead
Any idiot that wants to read anything else into it is a prat. They gave their lives not for politics, but because they were were soldiers.
Wars might be right or wrong, but the people we should be be thinking about when we proudly wear a red poppy are are all the poor buggers who are dead, soldiers and civilians.
Stuff the politicians that sent them on their way.
I for one thank them all. They allow me to write this when pissed on a Saturday night.
Good bless them all.
Michael, you wear your poppy in that spirit, and that’s fine. I used to do that too.
I changed my mind recently.
Ronnie Anderson
I posted the picture with Ginger Dug at George Sq, it’s up the page a bit Ronnie. caz-m 9.20pm.
Hi Ronnie – good to see you’re still here 😀
I’m getting involved in the Aberdeen Common Weal, be good to see you there – some interesting ideas to move it forward. Next meeting probably 27th I’ll post it once confirmed and we know the venue.
As for the poppies thing, I have religiously bought a poppy in the belief that those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and those left disabled by war should be remembered.
I have not worn one since the war in Afghanistan but have made a donation. I have been sickened by the overt militarism of this country over the past coupe of decades. Did try to get a white poppy this year, but everywhere was sold out. I haven’t made a donation this year, as others have posted there are probably better places to donate to.
@Michael – did you read tartanarses post because if you did how the fuck could you post that ??
@ Croompenstein
He did admit to being drunk!
I hope the Catalan people have bigger `cojones `than our lot in there vote today on Yes or No to Independence from Spanish state.
This vote has not been sanctioned by the Spanish state so I hope it goes peacefully.
To any Catalans reading this just remember the Establishment are evil ba###ds.
Have set this up…
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/establish-a-scottish-wealth-fund-for-scotland
I am not wearing a poppy. I fought for the UK in the Falklands, BTW that was a lie as well. Thatcher had come to an agreement with Galtieri over the islands, senior Tories, when they found out about this didn’t like and and she was forced into a u-turn. To cover her tracks, because Gen Haig the american go-between was making progress but Thatcher made sure the war went ahead, imagine how that happened? Sink the Belgrano. This will never be proved.
Regarding poppies, you don’t need to wear a poppy to honour the those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I remember my mates who never came home every day and especially in May (when they fell), not just in November.
The poppy has been highjacked by arms dealers sponsoring the Royal British Legion, The Unionist Politicians, and others.
I remember but I don’t need a prop to.
Sorry missed out a # in bastards.
@Michael
Perhaps the point Michael is that they should not have been killed . Many ex servicemen I know remember their fallen comrades and friends not through a poppy ,but through a bond of mutual dependency and comradeship that few outside the services will understand. That it has become a spectacle for its own sake, and moved away from its true intention as was exemplified by what seemed like the Rememberance Royal Variety show tonight. Nobody is or has criticised the people who served, and if there are different ways of honouring their sacrifice I will do so. I have family who served in the last two great wars and I do not disrespect them for doing their duty, but I remember them as family and not as heroic. If you really believe that the politicians who have sent our boys and girls to die , then stand and lay their wreath at The cenptaph feeling guilty and anguished at having done so, then you are more forgiving than I.
I really don’t care for the other opinions which may have hijacked the meaning or symbolism of the poppy.
For me it’s a simple mark of of respect and rememberece of of normal people, soldiers, civilians and bereaved family.
I’m so disappointed that some people can see it differently from me.
I really hope that in an Indy Scotland others can help to reclaim the real meaning of the poppy and get beyond this.
I don’t care about the politics, where the charity money goes etc. I just want to think about the folk that died without a guilt trip or anything else.
In addition to earlier post, I was also forever being told off (especially on tour) for not having my British flag on my shirt/combat jacket(depending on weather) which kept (mysteriously) falling off.
Like other posters, I appreciate what the WW1 and 2 lads did for us all year and not just for 2 minutes in November. One doesn’t have to be a raving Britisher for this.
I would also like to point out that I never ever met even one person who claimed to serving Queen or country. Such a person if they ever existed would have more than likely have been sectioned or at the very least been forced to go for commission.
Michael says:
9 November, 2014 at 12:51 am
I really don’t care for the other opinions which may have hijacked the meaning or symbolism of the poppy.
================================
Michael I welcome your opinion and choice, and respect both. If someone wants to wear a poppy that is fine by me, not a problem with that.
Can anyone explain the annoying delay to posts appearing, or disappearing entirely. Is it the filter, GCHQ or a steam powered server?
@ Morag
I endorse all you say. The process of selecting candidates in the SNP is rigorous. First you have to undergo vetting, then be nominated by a branch or constituency, then put yourself up in a hustings against other nominees, and finally be selected as PPC through a vote of the entire constituency association.
I believe the SNP will waive the 13 month rule at Conference, but that’s not to say that anyone will be a shoe-in, and talk about people somehow automatically ‘standing for WM’ is naive.
That said, you’ll note that part of Angela Constance’s pitch for Deputy Leadership is that there should be at least one woman on every short list. This can only be a good thing.
Harry Patch was our last witness to the needless slaughter – please folks honour him by creating peace.
@Paula Rose –
Hear, hear, and the man himself should be given the last word on this:
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2d/af/5f/2daf5fd606499168dac1475b6e3cf68b.jpg
When i posted earlier about poppies i certainly did’nt mean to infer anybody should or should’nt wear one, not my business what people choose, my point, which i dont think i made properly is there seems to be a kind of revelling in it all, probably the agenda of the media, but what i dont understand is why, are we to prove that we look like we care more than the next person or we’re guilty of not caring enough so that others can be professionally outraged at our insufficient lack of passion when the caring button is pressed “DING” look sad now or be castigated…
I still dont know what to think
War what is it good for – nothing.
Dr Jim
I agree with you. There does seem to be a category of professional poppy wearer.
I put money in the tin, even though I profoundly disagree with it as I think that the government should pay for the folks it mutilated, even if they did volunteer.
I rather like, perversely, being scorned, looked at funny and even told off by some folks for not wearing a poppy, especially if said folks have never donned a uniform(officially) in their puff.
Dr Jim honey – spread love and peace.
Tartanarse,
‘Storming the beaches of Brighton’ – personally, I’d wait til they got to Brigton before I’d consider it.
@ Paula Rose 1:58am Absolutely
@ Author-Al 12:33am Gladly Signed
Poppy culture is one more pressure on Joe Public to think ‘family’ as we’re now being intel-educated.
Personally, I will not be part of such a dysfunctional ‘family’.
I see a stark division as to how I respect and feel for those who have fallen and this almost obscene – join-up wear a poppy fashion.
It’s so easy to see how the establishment media machine meshes into gear when needed. It must have been simply quite appalling for conscientious objectors AND their families during these past two ‘great’ wars.
Given I would not cross the street to accompany any Westminster unionist politician, it beggars belief that me or mine would do their bidding in any war. So just forget it. OK!
Regarding the association of the poppy with war.. if you wish to remember the fallen soldiers of Scotland by displaying a personal symbol of support, you could always pin the flower of a thistle onto your lapel instead.. we live in new times.
Go with the flow or be yourself, the choice is yours 🙂
p.s. sending out good vibes and luck to the people of Catalonia on their Vote YES day today (make sure they do an exit poll btw).
I’ve done the images of 3 slightly different “Being Scottish is a State of Mind“, 75 mm diameter for tax discs, I found you can’t copy pictures from gravatar so I put them on my wordpress blog, right hand side:
http://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/
Badge size ones to follow soon.
I found my £1.58 12 year old Photostudio has a “capture” function 🙂
Good luck to all our friends in Catalonia today.
Good luck to all our friends in Catalonia today.
Seconded.
Unbelieveable!
OT lots of IT experts on here who can maybe advise me? I’m disabled and having problems with DWP etc. My laptop which is my window to the outside world, the Norton anti-virus has expired, not that it was much good anyway. So what good but not too expensive anti-virus software can I get hopefully online to save having to travel miles to a pc shop? any help and advice would be so gratefully received.
@ fionan
You should be able to renew your Norton on-line… just google Norton.
You can also subscribe to McAfee and/or Kaprinsky(?) in the same way. All quite easy and cost less than £30 for a years protection for a single machine and can be done using a credit/debit card. Any upgrades will automatically download and configure themselves.
(Poppies) we don’t have that poppies shebang in France.
We have crosses.
Acres, hectares of them. Neatly planted among lawn and mushrooms.
We have ghost towns, too.
Villages that have been wiped out of existence, but whose limits still exist.
And sometimes we find duds still buried in the ground.
All that what for?
WW I lead to WW II and we barely escaped WW III.
It’s a striking testimony of the stupidity of the human race.
As Einstein had put it: “I don’t know with which weapons WW III will be fought, but I know for WW IV: sticks and stones.”
@fionan: can’t help you. But next time, be more clever, buy a MacBook 🙂
@yesindyref2: “Being Scottish is a state of mind”. Is that to say that Scotland is the state of minds? 🙂
@ fionan
I use AVG Free.
Just be make sure that as you go through all the steps from download to install that you keep choosing the Free option as if not you will end up installing the trial version of the one you pay for.
@fionan
I actually just use Microsoft Security Essentials – it’s free. That and occasionally checking with Malwarebytes Anti-Malware, and SUPERAntiSpyware Free Edition, along with careful browsing, clearing all browsing history including cookies, and using ccleaner to clean up stuff, with the winaso registry cleaner and optimiser keeps me clean. Well, my computers anyway. They’re all free.
Even though it’s expired you’ll need to uninstall the Norton stuff, and you might find your computer runs faster as well.
fionan,
Avast free version is also good.
I have that and AVG on different computers. I prefer Avast, lighter touch.
Tartanarse
Guid posts – I trust you didn’t catch the remembrance festival on the BBC last night? I managed about a minute and that was plenty. I can only imagine what watching it feels like for a former soldier. I have never worn the poppy – you see warmongers like Blair wearing one and I just don’t want to be part of it.
A phrase that resonated with me was from a letter written from father to son that my cousin discovered when researching my grandfather’s experiences during WW1. The letter (not from my grandfather I might add) from a father to son from the front said ” I would rather see you dead in your grave than see you wearing the King’s uniform”. That passed through censors towards the end of the war.
And Scotland just voted to keep nuclear missiles and remain within this belligerent, arms factory union.
Anyway – have a great Sunday everyone. As well as being the Catalans big day it happens to be my birthday and the best present I could ask for is a loud, strong Si from our friends in Catalonia.
We thought Scotland would show them the way – they will have to forge ahead and we will follow.
Presumably Iain Grey has already asked George where the money for a Shale Gas Fund would come from?
😉
Neil Findlay doesn’t do himself any favours when trying to win back disillusioned Labour voters with policies like the ones he talked about yesterday, as he launched his bid to become leader of the Scottish Labour Party.
“Former Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont was right to question universal services such as free tuition fees and prescriptions, according to leadership candidate Neil Findlay MSP.”
http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/findlay-launches-leader-campaign-1.672189
What we must not forget about all of these Labour candidates is that they went into that voting booth on 18th September and put their Party before their Country. They voted NO only to help London Labour regain power back from the Conservatives. Scotland didn’t enter their thoughts.
Anyone fancy a laugh?
https://archive.today/eYGTy
@ Morag re Craig Murray
“He’s also extremely opinionated, sometimes with some quite bizarre opinions. He’s fond of making allegations on the basis of almost non-existent evidence. He jumps to conclusions and defends them to the death, even when they’re plumb wrong. He has a very high opinion of himself, fuelled by the adulation of a fan club he’s managed to construct round his sensationalist blog.”
Highly pejorative statements. Do you have any evidence for them? I read and enjoy Craig’s blog most days but I wouldn’t think of myself as an adoring fan entertaining bizarre opinions.
@ Fionan
I used AVG Free for years along with ” Spybot” Which is also available free .
I have been advised that using 2 causes conflicts but they are different and worked fine on several machines .
I would , as above , strongly advise removing Norton to avoid conflicts if you plump for another type .
Removal done via the add/ remove programmes .
Here we are then , Rememberance Sunday , I’m sad to say that I too remember the fallen and shed a tear for all who have given the ultimate sacrifice , namely their life .
I feel it most for the fallen of WW 1 as my granda , brothers and great granda were involved and everyone lost people they knew . I feel it most as many of the dead would have been VOLUNTEERS !
Now that is true courage !
Oh dear, here we go again.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have had to comment on this website to query why Morag is continually allowed to launch highly personal attacks on me, and what possible good she thinks she is thereby doing to the cause of independence.
Morag repeatedly has accused me of having bizarre or peculiar ideas. I have repeatedly asked het to state what bizarre ideas I have. I have published two books, and the second most read pro-independence blog after Wings with over 10,000 articles on it, so these bizarre ideas must not be difficult to locate.
Morag, will you give an actual example of a “quite bizarre opinion” which I hold. Then others can judge whether they think it bizarre or not too.
Once, the BBC played Strauss’ Metamorphosen on Remembrance Day. Strauss wrote it after seeing the destruction of Dresden. It’s the saddest piece of music I’ve heard. I have it on in the background now. I don’t wear poppies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkgIkDYV64
@ Tam.
Like you Tam I’ve never worn a poppy, wouldn’t ever consider wearing one either despite establishment or peer pressure.
Hope the Catalonians have the courage of their convictions and vote YES YES.
Derek is broadcasting from lifestream in Barcelona.
btw, have a great birthday.
Craig,
Nobody knows. Mostly we ignore it (apart from Paula Rose @4.19!)
@liveIndyScot broadcasting through the day from Barcelona on the day of their referendum
Derek is away having some breakfast now, but will be streaming again later on. Should be quite a party there tonight.
Get the stream here:
http://tinyurl.com/moo3sj2
More power to our Brothers & Sisters in Catalonia – who will no doubt prove that Hope will win over Fear.
Good luck – be strong !!
This may be a duplicate again – Grrr
@liveIndyScot broadcasting through the day from Barcelona on the day of their referendum
Derek is away having some breakfast now, but will be straming again later on. Should be quite a party there tonight.
Get the stream here:
http://tinyurl.com/moo3sj2
lol @ Gerry Parker
Beat me again :D, but thanks to Wings playing up I got two posts 😉
@ Tam Jardine Awe the bes’est Tam, wee tip stay away fae they party baloons wie a fag in yer mooth,have a gid day.
X_Sticks says:
9 November, 2014 at 10:02 am
This may be a duplicate again – Grrr
Then why do you keep doing it?
X_Sticks says
“This may be a duplicate again – Grrr”
Rigged postal vote ?? 🙂
@Capella
Thanks for the Strauss. Indeed it is a moving piece of music and more meaningful than our establishments ‘commemorations’.
Where the remembrance of what now must be close to a million innocent live lost in Afghanistan and Iraq never mind the other middle-eastern countries we in the West have destabilised with our military adventures.
ronnie anderson & gerry parker
cheers – I have a great Sunday yersels
BTW am I right in saying there is a gathering at the Yesbar on 22nd? I have been out of the loop for the last few weeks
These Wings problems are doing my head in – this may again be a duplicate 🙁
@Capella
Thanks for the Strauss. Indeed it is a moving piece of music and more meaningful than our establishments ‘commemorations’.
Where the remembrance of what now must be close to a million innocent live lost in Afghanistan and Iraq never mind the other middle-eastern countries we in the West have destabilised with our military adventures.
Somehow I dont think the words of Harry Patch will reach many ears today,there’s more Honour in His words than any politicains weasel words of Remeberance.
@ Free Scotland 9.04
Brilliant link. The P&J should have included a link to the page so we can all “like” it.
Amazing scenes fom Barcelona too on the Livestream link. Good luck to the Catalan voters.
Del from Live Independence broadcasing from Barcelona again now http://tinyurl.com/lbo6mt9
Happy birthday Tam. 🙂
Fionan , like Kaspersky and they have good online support- nae bother to get online.
Tam . Happy Birthday – and I hope it is Happy Birthday to Catalonia too!
Goodness knows why we have to put up with lengthy character assassinations of Craig Murray – could the person involved give it a rest .Though her grammar is better than Alan Cochranes there is a similarity of ” I hate Alex Salmond ” articles with her ” And I cain’t stand him” pieces on Mr Murray ( apologies to Singing in the Rain)
Speaking personally , can live without it .
Equally personally , I enjoy reading Craigs blogs.
@ Tam.
I’ll be at the SNP roadshow on 22nd, I think there’s a Wings meet up, either in the Yes Bar, or overflowing into the Horseshoe. Don’t know about times. I’ve been snowed under with work the past couple of weeks so haven’t really been keeping in the loop either.
Craig Murray at 0922,
We try to ignore Morag’s snide comments about you as much as possible. Not sure why she does it. A bit bizarre if you ask me.
Meanwhile, it needs said, good luck catalunya! 🙂
@Craig, Morag:
I concur with Morag.
People who post under their true name with their photo as avatar MUST be somehow smug.
Take my own example: I am humble and meek. Do I use my picture as an avatar?
Darn. Each time I get worked up my mane tangles itself. Would you please excuse me, just the time to groom it?
🙂
Derek back posting from Barcelona after a short break.
Livestream.
Re Strauss Metamorphosen, was after the destruction of Munich, not Dresden (says Wikipedia). Or alternatively, the destruction of war in general.
1WW three ‘royal’ cousins fell out. Victoria’s grandsons (granddaughters-in-laws) the incestuous tenticles of the ‘royals’ in Europe, destroyed so many families. Members of the ‘Royal’ families still engage in illegal wars. Self interest and preservation.
The Spanish and provincial/federal governance are totally corrupt in Spain. Austerity is not working. UK/US deregulation caused havoc in Spain. Corrupt holiday homes boom, linked to London lending markets. Corrupt politicians/bankers did go to jail in Spain.
AuldA
I do realise you were joking, but honestly I have no idea how my photo comes up as my avatar. It is the photo on my own blog, so must be something WordPress does automatically. It’s me 10 years ago.
How about this for an idea? Stu could give Morag an entire article to herself, entitled “Why Craig Murray is a dangerous nutjob with fans and weird opinions”, provided she promises not to keep saying it repeatedly on other threads. I promise not to reply.
Joking aside, I do actually find it hurtful. I expect to be attacked by the Establishment, its par for the course for whistleblowers, but not here. Particularly when I genuinely don’t have a clue why. What did I ever do to make Morag dislike me so?
May I say that on Remembrance Sunday we should remember those that the British Army shot, some very young men for various “crimes” like being shell shocked. That the German Army shot a very small amount of their own men says much for the “British State”, I stopped wearing a red poppy decades ago and will never wear one, my last was a purple one for the suffering of the animals whose wars these never are.
@David at 5.45.
Awesome picture I just love the Catalans. Come independence I know where our first embassy should be set up.
Bought some of these…
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCOTLAND-CATALONIA-DOUBLE-FLAG-ENAMEL-LAPEL-PIN-BADGE-/230675175690
Better snap them up only 18,000 left…
Been on to live stream and just want to say good luck Catalonia, show us how you do it.
Craig Murray says:
9 November, 2014 at 9:22 am
Craig – It’s obviously not you. I can only thank you for all the hard work you put in during the Referendum.
Many, many people read your blog and they are not people who are easily fooled.
I just hope you are provided with some evidence/specific examples soon!
Happy Birthday Tam Jardine, have a good one.
Morag: The very idea of someone like that [Craig Murray] as a member of the SNP Westminster group brings me out in a cold sweat. I can only hope the vetting committee isn’t easily dazzled.
Capella is correct. Speaking as an early target of Morag’s ire, (plus clique, and an abusive e-mail) it’s time Morag reconsidered her melodramatic, accusatory line of debate, and treat all here as helping to lay the path to self-governance.
We have different ways of expressing support for Scotland’s democracy, and while it is easier to relate to one poster over another because of content and style, it doesn’t mean we should denigrate the rest.
The majority of my comments are in praise of what others have had to say, or the topic’s content, a few offering a different view, but I chose to post on this site because it is free of personal attacks. Matters have degenerated of late.
By all means let us state our opinion strongly but please, friends, keep the heid!
@ yesindyref2
Badges: I spent some time yesterday working on an idea I had, sufficiently different from yours to be worth my while seeing if it could work. I’m not there yet (and may never be), but have some advice lined up. Then I have to work out how to give other people access to it to see what they think.
Craig.
Morag’s usually very good and just occasionally hard to figure. She for instance believes that the framing of al Megrahi was merely a cock up and not a huge conspiracy (despite being right about a lot of the rest of it).
But then again I become more and more suspicious about the postal vote at the referendum. Perhaps I’m mad but I now know of a Labour ex cabinet minister who among others strongly shares the same suspicions. More anon
O/T
I’ve just sent the following to the Sunday Herald
9th November 2014
The editor
Sir
The Labour Party in Scotland has claimed to have 13,000 members for as long as I remember. It claimed to have 13,000 when it was sending my wife, an SNP member for over fifty years, Labour leadership voting papers as she was a member of trade union.
Being aware of the recent haemorrhage of membership from it it was with considerable interest therefore that I turned in my Sunday Herald to Paul Hutcheon’s exposition of the real membership of Scottish Labour
Surprise.
According to Paul Hutcheon it is 13,500. I wonder who told him that.
Another respected Scottish political commentator, Gerry Hassan, was rather more thorough. He stripped out social club and trade union affiliate membership and, on the basis of membership subscriptions recorded, estimated that the real paid-up membership of Labour in Scotland was around 6,000. That was in 2012.
There is more chance of Nessie popping up in Hogganfield Loch than there is of the Labour party in Scotland having 13,500 paid up political members
Dave McEwan Hill
I was in Kirkcaldy at the Yes Kelty Conference where Craig Murray was one of the speakers. This is the second time I have heard this man speaking.
I think Craig Murray is an asset to the independence movement and will be to the SNP and as an MP. I hope that he can fight and win a seat at Westminster.
Catalonia Referendum—-Livestream up and running again.
LIVE and archived from earlier today. 🙂
Barcelona.
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3571253
Helena: I stopped wearing a red poppy decades ago and will never wear one.
I too can’t summon up enough respect when we are still killing our troops – did not Brown send them to Iraq unprepared? – and they killing innocents around the world.
It’s even harder to raise a salute since my own kith and kin let it be known support of warmongering Westminster is of a higher precedence than regaining the indissoluble right to make our own decision in the grave matter of war or peace.
Is it not to be preferred that we praise our soldiers because we keep them alive than commemorate them because we sent them to their death?
One that didn’t get through yesterday.
http://resistmilitarism.com/2014/11/07/black-poppy-appeal-lest-we-forget/
I’ve been watching livestream of the Catalunya referendum.Excellent work!………..wish there was a piper there.
I too was at The Way Forward conf. in Kirkcaldy and can only say that a man with Craig`s experience of the inner workings of the state can only be an asset to our journey towards inevitable Independence.
Hope the Catalan referendum goes off peacefully with no interference from the Spanish state. My heart is with all catalans today.
What did I ever do to make Morag dislike me so?
Something or nothing. It is just what she does. Ignore.
The symbolism of the poppy has changed. When I was growing up after WW2 it was, like the infant EU, a personal pledge of never again.
Now it is an art installation, a popular TV program and a celebration of having been at war somewhere for 99 out of the last 100 years and belongs to Westminster and the BBC. Not for me.
Dave @ 12.18pm
Dave, a good friend of mine has recently made a serious complaint to the BBC regarding the very same subject.
In a very recent BBC Reporting Scotland programme the reporter
(Glenn Campbell?) apparently stated as fact that Slabber have
over 13,000 members.
My friend has challenged this and has demanded that they provide proof to confirm what steps they took to verify the truthfulness of Campbells stated figures.
He has no intention of letting the matter go and is adamant he will be pursuing the matter through the full complaints process.
He has so far failed to receive any form of response.
btw, Dave, thanks very much for that ‘Dirty Game’ article.
One of the best i’ve ever read on the subject.
_______________
James Caithness says:
9 November, 2014 at 12:18 pm
“I think Craig Murray is an asset to the independence movement and will be to the SNP and as an MP. I hope that he can fight and win a seat at Westminster.”
Ditto, i second that, James.
O/t
I have been watching Independence live. It’s fantastic and I feel excited for the Catalonians ,
@ Morag
I do think that you should keep your negative personal opinions, of other Scottish Independence supporters, to yourself!
Re-Morag, she was the most vocal to rubbish all conspiracy theories over the count.Unquestioning it and not even being suspicios over the 800,000 postal votes which I found very strange.
@Michael says: 9 November, 2014 at 12:03 am:
“Ffs I can’t stand this poopy shite. There are far too many complete self obsessed idiots spouting rubbish.
The poppy is not a political symbol. It’s got nothing to do with the establishment.”
While you are entitled to your own views, Michael, please bear in mind that everyone else is entitled to their own view too.
Your rant reminds me of an old lady I knew. She went to her GTP and said, “Every time I raise my arm like this, Doctor, I get a sharp pain in my neck”. The Doctor replied, “Well, don’t lift your arm like that – next patient please”.
So, Michael as you state, “Ffs I can’t stand this poopy shite”, the very best advice is to just don’t read it and thus not get upset.
from James;
“I think Craig Murray is an asset to the independence movement and will be to the SNP and as an MP. I hope that he can fight and win a seat at Westminster.”
I concur, I hope Craig puts his name in for North East Fife.
@Joemcg
The SNP was esentially refounded in the 60s on the basis that we take the bastards on and beat them at their own game by their own rules. Morag expressed that sentiment.
If you found the procedure and / or result strange why did you not raise an action to have it investigated? If you dont want to challenge the result, which you do not seem to have done, why not just get on with preparing for the next battle?
Hers’s another that didn’t get through.
http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions/barcelona-session
http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/CONCLUSIONS-TRP-FINAL-EN-last.pdf
@ Jim Murphy
Please advise me of the substantive difference between the above conclusions, and the opperation of an apparthied state. One which you and your leader openly express your friendship for.
@Morag
So, go on then. You’ve been asked by Craig Murray directly to give reasons for your accusations and personal attacks on him. How about you answer him?
Considering every time Craig Murray’s name gets mentioned here you resort to the underhand tactic of smearing him for… well, just what, exactly?
We’re waiting. What’s keeping you?
James Caithness at 1218pm
I wholly agree. Craig Murray is one of the good guys, and if Morag has a personal gripe with Craig Murray, then it should NOT be aired here. The only credibility being damaged I think, is her own.
I have yet to meet anybody who shares her views, and I’ve been in the SNP a long time.
Jack Murphy: Livestream up and running – Barcelona.
Damn! It’s raining there too!
Thanks for the heads up.
My wife is driving there after a talk in Gibralter. Will be fascinating if an autonomous nationality does better than a thousand year-old country – eh? Go Catalonia!
David Clegg Political editor of the DR the swine said on the Sunday politics said that there was 1000 people on a Friday night to see Nicola Sturgeon.
I was there, and there was over 2000 people there.
Autumn is the rainy season in NE Spain.
BTW remind Jack, following his Scottish weather quip, that the East Coast has quite low rainfall, e.g. Aberdeen has the same level of annual precipitation as Monaco.
Catalonia has its own TV station and newspapers, someone said in the comments section of livestream. The ability to broadcast both sides of the argument is essential in a modern democracy. Yet another “right” denied to Scotland.
Glad to hear Celtic fans in good voice today “we know you voted no sheep shagging bastards ,we know you voted no”and your all just fuckin Tories.
Anyone want me to start playing music again? It seemed to do the trick last time. 😉
When does the formal accession of the anointed pair take place?
Also, re the stalking poodle farce, is that merely a pre-panto show for the lumpen proletariate or is part of it an attempt to boost flagging SLAB membership?
For your further information, now can we drop this subject?
“A separate artificial poppy factory is in Scotland, “Lady Haig’s Poppy Factory”, was opened in Scotland in March 1926 at the suggestion of Countess Haig, wife of Field Marshal Douglas Haig, 1st Earl Haig. It grew from two employees in a former wood-chopping factory in the grounds of Whiteford House to employ over 100 people by the mid-1930s. Additionally to the main task of making poppies, the employees made other goods by hand which were sold at three shops in Edinburgh and by a travelling shop throughout Scotland. The factory moved to its current premises, a former printing works, in 1965. Staffing levels and the range of good made at the factory gradually declined after the Second World War, and increasing annual deficits were funded by contributions from the Earl Haig Fund Scotland. In 1998, the factory became an independent charitable company, The Lady Haig Poppy Factory Ltd, owned by Earl Haig Fund Scotland Ltd.
The factory is operated by the Earl Haig Fund Scotland and also employs ex-service personnel, many disabled, making five million remembrance poppies in Edinburgh each year, to a slightly different design with four-lobed petals rather than two for English poppies, and 8,000 poppy wreaths. So, even if the wearing of a poppy in remembrance has indeed become rather politicised by the Westminster Establishment and a rather sinister culture of compulsion is now in force, the purchase of the poppy does indeed help, (mainly), disabled ex-service persons both by employment and raising funds. May I suggest those who feel there is a political/compulsion slant should purchase a poppy and choose not to wear it?
“
Capella: Catalonia has its own TV station and newspapers, someone said in the comments section of livestream.
I didn’t realise that, Capella – I guess it ought to have been obvious from the number of times I stay in Barcelona.
I suppose opposition wil point to the Scotsman, Herald, STV and BBC Scotland as our ‘national’ press and media – but that would be to miss the point by a mile.
Marcia
Are you going down to Glasgow on the 21st?
Morag, bless her, has an unerring ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Such a waste .
OT/ maybe. The britnat stuff seems to be having a life of its own.
There`s a film on today entitled “britain stands alone” fair enough you might think. The details are “After the Japanese brutally conquer the Phillipines in WW2, John Wayne is left behind to lead…”
Forgive me for my ignorance but wasn`t the Phillipines a totally american campaign.
@caz-m
Re the so-called ‘left wing’ Neil Findlay
The Times also had a piece about him y’day (needless to say it isn’t included in his BBC profile). Universal benefits such as university tuition fees & free prescriptions “have to be reconsidered” (NB. not “may”). Neo-liberalism now permeates all shades of the Scottish Labour Party. And the irony?… university tuition in Germany is now free country-wide, the last German state (Lower Saxony) having just abolished fees. As even the New Statesman recognised, there is now a general political consensus in Germany that education provision is a public service which should be publicly funded.
God help those on modest incomes if SLAB get back into power in Holyrood. You can be assured of an immediate increase in council tax (Glasgow : 60% increase in 10 years under Labour). And for their kids/grand-kids, tens of thousands pounds of student debt.
Chic McGregor
They need to persuade people to buy their £5 SLAB memberships first. Will be half price (£2.50) next with Buy One Get One Free at the same time 🙂
Robert Peffers: “Every time I raise my arm like this, Doctor, I get a sharp pain in my neck”. The Doctor replied, “Well, don’t lift your arm like that – next patient please”.
What that old joke proves is, inept doctors are often lethal.
OT
Catalonia is, according to the EBC, responsible for generating 20% of Spain’s GDP. I can’t find what Euskadi’s contribution is but probably even bigger as there is a fair bit of banking and heavy industry there. They are drive like madmen, beware if driving through there en route to Central Spain or Northern Portugal.
So if both splittlist “provinces” bail out of Spain, I guess Spain would be pretty much dependent on tourism.
@Craig:
I do realise you were joking…
Was I? (snicker)
I have no idea how my photo comes up as my avatar…
Apparently, you found a way to ditch it. Please choose another or put it back, your messages lack it!
It’s me 10 years ago.
Aha. So that was a trick to woo Paula Rose? (Or Morag, maybe ?:))
Joking aside, I do actually find it hurtful. I expect to be attacked by the Establishment, its par for the course for whistleblowers, but not here. Particularly when I genuinely don’t have a clue why. What did I ever do to make Morag dislike me so?
I cannot answer on her behalf, of course. But I expect this to happen. The pro-indy block is too large, ergo there must be dislikes, however slight, between some people. Different sensibilities, discrepancies in approaches, doubts. This is inevitable in a group of 1,6 million people. For example, I know that Morag and I disagree on the way ‘we’ should deal with newspapers (I write ‘we’ because, living in France, I face different realities).
Publishing thoughts, ideas and opinions, unless they are hackneyed and watered down, expose yourself to the sympathy of some and the antipathy of others. It’s always been like that since the dawn of man and it’s not going to change soon.
To be really frank, I am somewhat surprised that, given your profile, you are that shaken by the opinion of one single person.
@Bugger (the Panda)
Even if the Catalans voted for Independence the Spanish State will not give them it .
They will have to go down the route of a Unilateral declaration of independence.And if they go for UDI the Basques (Euskadi)will surely follow .
The Spanish State will not allow any of this to happen.
Panda: Bless her, has an unerring ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Well, we all say things we regret in the cold light of day. But I’d have thought chasing an ideal means making friends and influencing people. Not giving a shit whether you alienate is seriously counter-productive. My reading is, some of the outbursts are irrational.
Catalonia, are we there yet?
Catalonia, are we there yet?
Catalonia …
Scot: The Spanish State will not allow any of this to happen.
Aye, Franco’s ghost still stalks the land, pockets of residual fascism found in all points of Iberia.
Bugger (the Panda
Alas no, I will still be in London. In France tomorrow & Tuesday to visit the Somme memorials.
@AuldA
I think Craig can handle verbal assaults from the anti Independence trolls like water off a ducks back but when you have been stabbed in the back by your own team it must be soul destroying.
Rev Stu accepts Morags posts so he must trust her viewpoints are not malicious .
I agree we can’t all think the same, or react the same to comments etc. but we can all exercise judgement, and remember that this site is read far and wide.
I did agree with one thing Morag said, and that is not to promote/discuss potential PPCs too widely or in detail, which is why I was very disappointed to read disparaging remarks about Mr Murray.
As he has said, and its understandable, that despite his profile and experience, it’s hurtful coming from within the pro independence movement. He has responded with good grace.
There are very few, if any, within the pro independence movement, who are easily ‘dazzled’, that’s what separates us from many of the pro Union. It’s also what the pro independence parties know, that they will be held to account by articulate and intelligent people.
With that in mind, I support and respect anyone putting themselves forward for selection, and wish Mr Murray every success if he goes down that route, as so far, I’m impressed.
I agree with most that Morag says except on Craig Murray.
But I don’t think that Craig should be parachuted into a
constituency. He can serve his time like anybody else.
(And that’s the same for Lesley Riddoch, Ivan McKee or anybody)
BTW, I have bought and read one of Craig’s Books, well worth a read.
GMB union, of which Murphy is a member, tells its members to vote for Findlay.
Even if Murphy “wins” Labour in Scotland will remain a machinating mess.
If Murphy loses maybe he could help Osborne set up his sovereign wealth fund.
@ AuldA
Accusing a fellow campaigner of being “extremely opinionated”, with “bizarre opinions, fond of making allegations on the basis of almost non-existent evidence, jumping to conclusions and defending them to the death, even when they’re plumb wrong, having a very high opinion of himself, fuelled by the adulation of a fan club he’s managed to construct round his sensationalist blog”…isn’t trivial.
And the remark:“But you can’t dine out forever on the basis of once having been in the diplomatic service.”… is snide.
I can understand people in this blog attacking Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling of lying. There’s plenty of evidence to substantiate that.
But what can be the motivation for the above attack on Craig Murray?
I’m baffled.
I very much hope Craig does stand for Westminster. I think his knowledge and background would be invaluable.
Franco’s ghost still stalks the land, pockets of residual fascism found in all points of Iberia.
And that’s just resident English expats missing the hard slap of Thatcher, complaining of a lack of fish ‘n chip shops, and calling all waiters, ‘Hi, Juan,’
🙂
Andy Murray proving almost on equal terms with Japanese opponent Nishikori, which is rather disappointing. Looks like losing first set.
Catalonia – 5 million 1/5 of the Spanish population (20%) – 20% of Spain’s GDP.
Tam Jardine.
Happy birthday Tam. Hope your day is a cracker.
And a warm cheer for the Catalonian people . We are with you in spirit.
🙂
It’s counter productive to argue on this website. Limited accessibility. Boring for others, especially when other posters join in. If posters wish to libel/slander each other, do it on quarantine or by private e-mail facilities or a lawyer letter. If that is affordable.
@democracy reborn at 1.39 who talked about University fees
In providing free University education Scotland, to its credit, aligns with most of the EU where fees are non-existent (like Germany and other countries) or very low ( maybe somewhere around 1,500 euros a year)
Nothing like the £9,000 a year in England for a BA/BSc which feeds into the USA-type system and ensuing years of debt.This has several major negative aspects, one being the inability of students to continue on to advanced studies because of related costs, unless they get one of the increasingly rare scholarships which are hotly contested.
On the subject of Franco and Spanish fascism. Was anyone else baffled as to how a BBC Question Time panel could conflate the volunteer army that stood against Franco, with the young idiot Brits heading out too Syria (last week or the week prior).
Personally, I think that was taking the re-writing of history a little too far. Even for the BBC.
Grouse Beater.
Agree bud. Too many personal attacks because of a difference of viewpoint.
Wings was never like this before. We are all still maybe bit to tetchy over the ref. I don’t blame anyone for that. You should see me in the morning Grouse. Waking up in a country that made a huge mistake in voting NO. I need to give myself a shake but it still hurts 🙁
Only indi will make me feel better. And i honestly believe it will happen sooner than most folk think. Scotland has changed for good.
I enjoy Craigs blog by the way. He has a different view from others and that’s a nice change.
We all want the same thing though so kiss and make up folks, we already have enough on our plate with the BBC,MSM and the rags pumping out drivel 24/7
I canny wear a poppy anymore and i served . Watching the ex soldiers dumped broke any feeling i had for service to country. It’s all about control of resources and banks.
But i will remember them . Always. With pride and terrible sadness.
@Lenny Hartley 2.47pm
The trouble is, Lenny, we don’t have time for people to serve their time. We need every good candidate we can get, and if they’re high profile, so much the better. So much has happened and is happening in such a short period that we have to be prepared to be extremely flexible in our approach to winning the next battle. 60,000 people didn’t join the SNP for business as usual.
Remember the parable of the workers in the vineyard. You don’t have to be religious to understand its message.
Craig Murray has his finger right on the pulse and gets to the core of the matter in his recent blog post:
“…we should concentrate single-mindedly on the goal of independence and not be sidetracked by the Smith Commission or any other ‘devo-max’ initiative. These were never honest or genuine and will come to nothing worthwhile. Scotland will get nothing from Westminster: we have to take power ourselves if we are to build a more just and equal society.
All the talk of Scotland keeping and spending its own tax revenue is illusory as the unionist parties always exclude vital revenue sources including the revenues from oil and from whisky, which are somehow ‘UK’. Westminster will make sure that any new settlement gives Scotland less, not more, money. The mood towards Scotland in Whitehall is entirely vindictive.
In addition to which, given the UK’s record on extraordinary rendition, torture and a long succession of aggressive and illegal wars, any settlement which leaves Scotland still subject to Westminster foreign and defence policy is absolutely unacceptable and immoral.”
Craig Murray is correct. We have to accept that Westminster bears the independence movement only ill-will. If they were prepared to play fair, they would allow the BBC to report fairly (as enshrined in its charter). As they break the law and do not, it shows that the case MUST be for independence, else they would not distort the picture and publish lies on behalf of their unionist stooges in Scotland (Labour Party).
If you have cancer in your body, you have to recognise this. It is no point pretending that these pains are maybe just a sore head or sore stomach…. There is no getting away from the fact that the Smith Commission will give us nothing — personally, I believe there will be an attempt to somehow reduce the powers of the Scottish Parliament and give us less autonomy than we now have…
I feel Craig Murray must be allowed to go up against Broon in his constituency, I feel sure he could do it…. And while I don’t have the gift of second sight or anything like that, but if Murray starts being very vocal and ALREADY holding meetings in Fife, I am truly convinced that the pompous one-eyed git will find reasons not to stand in 2015….
Broon is a typical bully who only likes to take on frail women, pensioners, disabled youngsters… After his disgusting behaviour in the indy ref campaign and the heroism shown by Lindsay in climbing the rock face below Edinburgh Castle to put up her YES sign before the Orange Order walk, I feel Broon needs to be chased out of Scotland and I believe Craig Murray is the man to do it…
[The next step after we gain indy is to arrest Blair, Broon, Straw if he ever sets foot in Scotland and send them in handcuffs to The Hague — and no special flight, we can book tickets on a Ryanair flight and they can queue to take their seats after everyone else!]
We need another post, Stu, to distract us from the latest squabble!
@ Ken500
The population of Saiin is nearly 50 millions so at 5 million Catalans that is 10% of the population producing 20% of their GDP.
The poorer Southern regions are very much underperforming in economic terms.
Ken: It’s counter productive to argue on this website.
Do you mean engage in ‘despute’? That can be fatal. Good argument is welcome. I prefer to discuss ideas with posters – otherwise why join a ‘community’?
🙂
Murray doing his miraculous recovery in the second set … four games all.
O/T
I see Craig Murray, is hoping somehow to stand as an SNP candidate, I’m sure Craig could thrash Brown or Murphy or Alexander.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/11/the-way-forward/
Everyone is entitled to express an opinion. Just be prepared to back it up if challenged! Ad hominem attacks are a waste of time, I agree, which is why we need to focus on the policy behind them.
I believe Osborne is a manipulative liar which is why he has made these glib promises to the North of England. He already knows the economics of fracking make the promises of a sovereign fund null and void. Just as Brown and Darling knew that the UK Treasury spends Scotland’s revenue on infrastructure projects in the south of England and redefines them “UK expenditure” to bypass the Barnett formula. That’s theft in my opinion. The policy is – buy votes in the heavily populated south by flooding it with tax payers’ money.
Then benefit from the largesse of the corporations which will reward them handsomely for their neo-liberal policies. I would add corrupt to liars and thieves. I think there is sufficient evidence to back that up.
Happy Birthday Tam Jardine!
Labour still going on about University and College places! They would like everyone to support them as businesses. We will soon need a University degree to make and sell ice cream! Apprenticeships have been abandoned it seems!
Murray beaten in straight sets. Poo! Still he has another chance to stay in the tournament … Scotland all over, eh?
Yes Guy: You should see me in the morning, Grouse. Waking up in a country that made a huge mistake in voting NO. I need to give myself a shake but it still hurts.
Visions of you kicking the dog, or shooting a squirrel. 🙂
AuldA,
The reason that Morag’s comments regarding Craig are a problem, is that those above, are NOT unique. I can remember the same kind of comments being made by her many times over the last couple of years at least. Craig is right to be bothered by it, as it just keeps on happening – the same unsubstantiated rubbish from the same person.
Anybody can post and make nasty unsubstantiated comments about people, but to do it repeatedly gets tiresome and hurtful for both the victim (in this case Craig) and all the readers of this blog. I re-iterate, Craig is one of the good guys IMHO, and was an important speaker in the YES campaign, and I would be delighted if he were to be an SNP candidate.
Please do not even think of kicking the dog or cat, use your anger on those who caused you the grief in the first place. I will admit I am being childish but one person who is not getting my business is one who voted no. I have also ditched the Royal Bank and believe me neither Asda or even Tesco will get rich on the stuff I am forced to buy there as there is no alternative.
I would certainly vote for Craig Murray, I think someone who could give up a lucrative position in the Diplomatic Core has a sense of decency, I can think of few indeed who have annoyed the Establishment more. So if he wants to stand against Thomas Docherty he will definitely get my vote. Now I hear that Cara Hilton is standing down, no not as an MSP but as a councillor, we could do with someone with a Dunfermline address for that one.
Livestream from Barcelona back up
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3571253
Pretty sure there was a lot of negativity to oil fund during referendum due to it being seen as idiotic not to pay down debt first. Seems they have changed their tune.
Capella, allengiances in Scotland can be thoroughly confusing.
Billy Connolly made public his ‘love’ of his friend and hero, Jimmy Reid, yet somehow couldn’t bring himself to tell his kith and kin to vote Yes.
You wonder if references to Jimmy Reid were only a cynical tag to Connolly’s anecdotes about working in a shipyard.
@ Grouse Beater
Connolly may have adopted the view that since he no longer lives in Scotland he shouldn’t express his view. However, after the narrow NO vote, he did say that they better keep their “vow”. Sounded pretty committed to Home Rule to me at the very least.
To all energised by my grandson’s uplifting ‘flag party’ idea – please pass it on. Maybe it will become an annual gathering of cohesive importance.
A Flag Party’ grousebeater.wordpress
@Everybody who commented:
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t downplay the contents of Morag’s comments. What I wonder is why so many people care. Even Craig seems to be deeply shaken, as if Morag was a disguise for Nicola Sturgeon herself. To me, it feels like being despised by Morag means the demise of every ambition in the independence community.
Morag is grumpy about Craig? So what? Let her gripe and go ahead. No?
John King, Flower of Scotland, YESGUY, Dorothy Devine
Thanks for your good wishes.
I know there are some brawls and rammies on this site, and things are said that can’t be unsaid, feuds develop, particularly when nothing else is going on (like today).
Let’s not forget that when this site is tearing along at full pelt, wi the bit beneath it’s teeth, it is an engine for political accountability and a beacon of truth amidst a sea of deception and self interest.
gerry parker
22nd sounds guid. Thanks
If the Independence movement doesn’t have room for Morag and Craig Murray with their differences, Denis Canavan, Gordon Wilson and Alex Salmond with theirs, me and people I disagree with or who disagree with me, then it’s not a Movement, it’s a straitjacket.
@Ken500
It’s strange that people who are politically minded and people like my wife who are non-political but interested in history, arrive at the same conclusion about the First World War.
That it was little more than a highly inbred family fall out that cost the lives of millions. We should make sure that never again can one single family have such a disastrous effect on the whole world.
I’m wearing my red poppy, not with pride, but sadness at the hundreds of millions who paid the price, and still pay the ultimate price, for those very few who put personal and vested interests above the welfare of the whole world. The Forces generally of all countries serve with courage and dignity, and it is their sacrifice I commemorate with the Poppy.
Just saw an article on BBC sport entitled “Murray attempts to win back fans” then mentioning his support for Indy! WTF! We will never win with this shite.
Any sensible Party,and I am presuming the SNP is that,selects candidates not just in consideration of their positive qualities but also tries to ensure there are no negatives in the background. Most parties have suffered damage from candidates who were less than candid about their private life.
The SNP have a selection process and it fits my view of what democracy demands.
I am very impressed by the new possible candidates being mentioned and am confident that those with the appropriate qualities will be selected.
As for the referendum I am convinced,given the integrity of the officials involved,that the voting process and count were not tarnished. I cannot speak for the entirety of the postal vote or the transport of votes but interference there would require expertise which only the state itself could provide. Strangely my wife has returned to thoughts of conspiracy after reading Stu’s latest poll results.
Capella: Sounded pretty committed to Home Rule to me at the very least.
Sounded more like an apology to me.
@Yesindyref2:
If the Independence movement doesn’t have room for Morag and Craig Murray with their differences, Denis Canavan, Gordon Wilson and Alex Salmond with theirs, me and people I disagree with or who disagree with me, then it’s not a Movement, it’s a straitjacket.
110% agreed. And hopefully it is so. We are not clones.
(PS: Not a straitjacket, an iron maiden 🙂 )
Tell me, does this ‘the actions of their predecessors cannot bind the actions of a future Westminster Parliament’ have a converse? Like, the present Westminster Parliament is responsible for the actions of their predecessors.
In which case Gideon should not set up a fracking fund for the “North” as it would set a precedent for the Scots to sue for the establishment and belated funding of an oil fund for themselves. Which would be nice 🙂
O/T
Just got a reminder on telly that the friendly with England at Parkheed is on the 18th Nov.
Well I have been a bit suspicious of the “Tartan Army” because I don’t remember them giving us a full on blood and guts support towards the YES campaign. They must have been too divided on the issue.
So, I was thinking that if all the YES voters in the crowd would start singing a certain song that would sort out the Yes’s from the No’s.
If all the Yes voters would start singing the words below to the Village People’s song “Go West”:
“Stand up if you voted YES”
“Stand up if you voted YES”
“Stand up if you voted YES”
“Stand up if you voted YES”
Repeat Song and clap you’re hands enthusiastically .
And any proud BritNat worth his salt will remain seated.
Cos am pissed of with these BritNat plastic Scots singing “Flower of Scotland” and have got the cheek to ask,
“When will we see you’re likes again”
A sad reflection of some of our people
messyreality.net/2014/11/08/friday-the-19th/
A lot of talk in Kirkcaldy about the YES, for want of a better word “brand” yesterday, with someone actually calling the YES word toxic.
Personally I think YES is extremely positive and should not be allowed to be forgotten or dropped from the Scottish political scene, because some selfish a**eholes usually naysayers think its divisive.
YES to social change.
YES to the end of poverty.
YES to the end of nuclear weapons.
All positive statements in my eyes.
Away from, although slightly related to, the internal politics of SNP selections, it’s great to see that Darren Carnegie of Glasgow’s Needy has announced he aims to stand in Glasgow East next year, presumably under an independent or Glasgow’s Needy banner.
If we could get him up on his own against Margaret Curran, I think he’d have a great chance. In my view, we need 59 leaders at Westminster, who instead of acting as a unified block as a stone in the Government’s shoe, can challenge with individual force and make it an all-out assault, whether party-affiliated or otherwise.
Caz-m, you couldn’t be more wrong re TA. I’m a full time attendee at all games home and away. The support in Germany was 95% yes at a reasonable estimate.
Before anyone gets too excited about high profile snp candidates it will be up to the thousands of new members who will decide which candidate will be selected in any constituency by democratic one member one vote. Unlike labour selection process.
Re poppies
I was out in Glasgow this afternoon and could not help noticing how very few people were wearing a poppy. I could be wrong but my impression is that a majority wore them in past years, but today I doubt it was 2 percent in this part of Glasgow.
Perhaps many people reject what the symbol has become? Can’t say for sure. But I gave up on poppies a long time ago after wearing white one for a while – can’t seem to get them easily now.
@ Helena
Are you going down to Glasgow to the Hydro?
I am offering a free one way lift as I am in Freuchie on Friday night but will be staying thereafter in Glasgow.
Grouse and Helena.
Too much of an animal lover to kick anything. And i have two cats of my own. Now squirrels ?? With the constant drivel pumped daily on the unsuspecting public ,i’m surprised we have’nt been overrun with the buggers 🙂
Morags ok . She wants the same as us , different views are welcome but bitter attacks without proof are sadly the norm these days. Not helpful Morag.
I don’t think we fully understand ourselves, the changes in Scotlands political future. We never expected the rises in indi memberships and each and every one of them wants a voice. This is why we join.
Nichola Sturgeon has already seen some of the changes but the political landscape is still in a state of flux. We don’t know who Labour will choose. The tory’s and Libdems are nothing but a minor irritation
Over the next couple of years things will be more clearer and no doubt independence with it .
We did some serious damage to WM .
It’s fatal and WM knows it . We all do . many more will see the flaws. The union is broken beyond repair.
In the meantime. lets not fight amongst ourselves. That is exactly what labour are doing and to be honest it’s much more fun watching them. They keep this up another year and the Bafta award to drama is theirs for certain.
It’s all they will win haha.
‘Dispute’
Catalonia benefits from the Costa tourist business which were in cohoots with the London banking sector. People lost money on unregulated holiday homes ‘letting contracts’ which were not worth the paper they were written on. People were defrauded and lost investment funds. Just as people were defrauded of their invested pension funds. Devaluing the £ against the Euro, and austerity reducing the standard of living.
The Spanish gov and administration is totally corrupt, along with the devolved administration in the Provinces and the banks. A Pozzi scheme involving the lack of banking regulation, on the Costa’s, in London and the Midlands, based on inflated property prices. A politician of the left has emerged to challenge the Spanish Gov austerity policies.
Catalonia, Quebec and Scotland (a country with less control over it’s own affairs) Independence case are quite different. Quebec has fiscal autonomy, under a Federal system Catalonia has aspects of autonomy. Scotland doesn’t.
hud on the noo,
That’s a fair assessment,but we need to sing more songs of freedom and less pish about deer.
Caz-M
Now, that’s a really good idea, particularly if it can be coordinated with where the TV cameras are pointing.
We really do have a great deal to look forward to, now we are stronger. Excellent piece by Nicola Sturgeon over on Newsnet Scotland. The best really is yet to come;
http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-opinion/9843-qthe-best-is-yet-to-comeq-says-sturgeon
Picture illustrating the article about today’s Catalonia vote on the website of the French newspaper Le Monde (© Reuters/ G. Nacarino):
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s522/sh/11dccf84-cd90-4d0c-9bcb-a35c5ae2e05e/22a11f6ecab41cc064d24d6577fdc232/deep/0/Capture-d-écran-2014-11-09-à-18.20.52.png
@ Ken500
Quebec calls is Sovereignty Association.
They are sovereign but in association with the Federation of Canada.
Essentially only really contributing to Federal structures and shared entities, like defence and diplomacy..
A bit like Isle of Man and the UK.
@Morag
You have been commenting on this site for a long time but you seem to have forgotten about Rev Stu’s etiquette rules ref 2 & 3…
http://wingsoverscotland.com/about/
They are well worth reading again.
No further comment is required.
Highlights from the Centopaph Remembrance Sunday in London being shown on BBC. The organisers have obviously had an irony bypass : the band are playing ‘Rule Brittania’…
You cannot even begin to consider yourself as living in a democracy when you don’t have a broadcast media which reports all the arguments. Broadcasting which gives huge bias towards only one viewpoint is hallmark of totalitarianism. Which description best suits Scotland at this time?
Catalonia has its own TV and Radio. Last time I was there, both Spanish and Catalan services could be received. It seems reasonable to assume, one way or another, the debate they have had will be more democratic.
Scotland needs its own broadcasting. Perhaps in this limbo time between Union and Independence, democracy would be best served by having both a new SBC operating alongside the BBC.
galamcennalath says: This is something we must have before we embark on another Referendum. We were fighting this with one hand tied behind our backs, bad enough that we were fighting tooth and nail with the most crooked of Governments and lets face it the whole establishment who were not going to give up without cheating.
Aulda
I never have any difficulty with people disagreeing with me. If you visited my own blog you would see many commenters who disagree with me very strongly. Debate is welcomed and encouraged.
The problem is here that Morag has never once stated a single issue on which she disagrees with me. Her attacks are very nasty and entirely personal, not political, and tend to hint there are dark secrets in my past.
If you are stating that the irrational and repeated statement of pure personal dislike and insinuation is a sign of healthy debate, then I fear you are very wrong. The notion that the independence movement should be wide enough to accommodate policy differences is certainly true. The notion that is should accommodate purely personal animosity is not sensible at all.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Kinnock has apparently expressed his support for millipede.
You just know you’re cream-crackered when that gormless buffoon
gives you his support.
Filthy red tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
O/T
For my dear friend BtP:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s522/sh/450679ad-da52-45e0-a34b-a506aee6c8ea/9ed9f3f6360e3be249b1208a007bbd65/deep/0/photo.jpg
“Not since Iraq have I seen BBC News working at propaganda strength like this. So glad I’m out of there” – Paul Mason, former economics editor of the BBC Newsnight.
http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/02/bbc-a-biased-propaganda-arm-of-anglo-american-power/
Craig Murray and others
The big problem is that at the moment there’s not much many of us can do, and that’s frustrating. It’s a waiting game, we have to wait for the following:
1). SNP conference, Green and SSP, to find out what organised plans there might be for a YES Alliance.
2). SNP deputy leadership, as the result of that could determine the fate of the YES Alliance as being unofficial, or official, and the extent of grassroot co-operation.
3). Smith Commission, as the result of that determines the appropriate action.
4). Even the Labour leadership contest makes a difference, I’m not going into that in case it gives them hints!
5). January when Westminster is supposed to start literally “enacting” Smith.
6). General Election candidates.
7). General Election and the background of various manifestos regarding Devo-Max / Indy / possible referendums.
It’s a waiting game, and some of us don’t like to be vultures, we’d prefer to go out and kill our meals!
@caz-m
Like the idea. During FoS???
Couldn’t sing FoS at last game although was sung by others including my two children by my side. Just a 100 yard stare from me. I have little doubt TA are a vast majority yes. It does not seem to attract the knuckle draggers of the OO or other groups nor the ProudScotButs of the rugby clique. Glad I supported Independence Live just to see the coverage of Catalonia vote. Will help me when my family and the TA laughed at by both ROI and Engerlund…
Berlin wall not the only wall in the news.
http://rt.com/news/203711-palestine-activists-break-barrier/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
@Craig:
f you are stating that the irrational and repeated statement of pure personal dislike and insinuation is a sign of healthy debate, then I fear you are very wrong. The notion that the independence movement should be wide enough to accommodate policy differences is certainly true. The notion that is should accommodate purely personal animosity is not sensible at all.
I deeply apologize if what I have written led you to believe this. I’ve never implied or even remotely thought that personal attacks were a healthy form of debate. I’m thousand of light-years away from that opinion.
My point is elsewhere. I could elaborate, but I fear this is not the right place for. I don’t want to pollute this thread just to detail something that relates more to personal philosophy than to Scotland’s politics.
Stoker: Kinnock has apparently expressed his support for millipede.
Time for the Trade Description Act: Millipedes are frauds – none have that many legs. 🙂
I’m away to do the ironing and wait for a new post from the Rev. xxx
haud on the noo 5.12pm
“The support in Germany was 95% yes at a reasonable estimate.”
It was more the home games I was concerned about. There was lots of home games that I was expecting the crowd to get right behind the YES campaign and I waited and waited and there was nothing.
We did see the odd YES flag, but for Scotland being the home nation during an independence campaign, I thought they played in very low key.
And I don’t doubt your commitment, it was some of your fellow foot soldiers I thought, let the rest of you down.
Why do No Voting fans continue to sign Flower of Scotland.
And do they view a Scotland v England football match as a Team GB training session.
Will they ditch the Saltire for the Union Jack.
I am travelling down to Glasgow on Friday, with my 30 pieces of silver for the Biased Brodcasting Corporation,
Does anyone know if you can get to the front desk or is there security e.t.c?
Ideally it would be perfect if my timing caught Bird, Beattie, Robertson e.t.c, but as they are all guilty of the garbage at the referendum any one of the emploees will do.
Gary
@craig Murray
Go Craig! You stood up for truth and justice. And that took guts in the face of the establishment. Not many would. That’s what we need from politicians – courage and passion. Wishing you every success.
Bob Sinclair Colin Church,
Yes, these ProudScotButs… need to be outed.
The Murrayfield Rugby fraternity are even worse. That lot could go from signing “Flower of Scotland” to “Swing Low Sweet Chariot” which batting an eyelid.
You’ll never guess which country tops the Gallup-Healthways Global Happiness Index. For a clue think currency, union or otherwise.
And if you want a link best go to RT, where you’ll find it on the front page. Sorry can’t help at the moment.
caz-m
People who had YES banners / flags etc were having them confiscated at home games. Same happened in Germany but everyone had extra and there was YES stuff everywhere.
There was a massive debate re the referendum on the TABOARD especially and the vast majority of people were for YES and many very active pre-ref. Of course there are a number of NO’s and there was a huge post-ref debate regarding the merits of continuing to sing FOS. My argument was that if you voted YES then of course it is correc : its the NOs who should look themselves in the mirror..
I’ve read Craig’s book; and I’ve read Morag’s book. Happy to have them both along airing their views. Happy to read Craig’s blog, and would read Morag’s too.
But squabbling I can do without. Enough of that at home.
Celtic fans were singing at Pittodrie today, “you are just a bunch of Tories”. Boy, that hurt. To be fair there was looks of bewilderment amongst my section of Dons fans.
Craig, hello.
I’m conscious the poster is not here to defend herself, so I’ll be as diplomatic as possible: if you analyse attacks they’re not really about you, me, or anybody else. They’re in defence of the subject’s self-perception – hence my comment about insecurity, evidenced by statements like, “I believe in speaking my mind…”
Similarly, try telling a relative or close friend the car they coveted for so long and finally bought is in a vile, lurid colour? (Examples: lime green, burnt bronze, heliotrope.) You’re in danger of bursting a damn of insecurity issuing from suppressing uneducated choice. So, caught between loyalty and honesty you swallow hard and say, “Where the hell will you park it?”
Poor Miliband – he’s getting hammered by his colleagues, told he’s a wimp and feckless. For him there’s nowhere to hide.
That aside, all success with your ambition to be selected.
🙂
@ G B
You have been watching QI?
O/T I was reading a biography of George Orwell and it was talking about the Labour Party being in thrall to the establishment, even Clement Attlee’s 1945 government. Guess things have always been that way, but good everyone is finally seeing through the Red Tories…
Hi yesindyref2 et al.
I’ve done a post re: badges in ‘off-topic’.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-14/#comment-1922841
Gary: Does anyone know if you can get to the front desk or is there security
Assuming you don’t have dynamite strapped to your chest you can get as far as the front desk – all very convivial until that ‘How may I help you?’ point. Entry to offices and studios on each level mean you have been invited, your name checks out, and you don’t alarm the security portals you must negotiate screaming ‘SNP terrorist on premises!
I know that some people feel a little concerned about aspects of the discussion that has gone on during this thread ,but I feel it is healthy to know that we are dealing with individuals who are thinkers,and passionate in what they believe, and willing to express the same. Do we really want to be seen as automatons who live within a single universal thought process and who never differ . Some of the postings on here have given me the chance to question myself with regard to what I believe, and also helps me understand where others come from .The future of Scotland, and who could potentially represents us is an important issue. We should accept it as such, and put much of the sentiments expressed down to passion and strong opinion rather than malice. I am quite happy to be criticised even if I feel it unwarranted. Any married person has probably had worse from their other half, but it does not always end in divorce (or maybe it does?)
Just a suggestion, in terms of what I do in addition to being on here.
It’s important to be informed about fracking, so please get up to speed, and join a local group, esp. if you are in the Central belt. Make sure you are up on key issues on WM and UKIP, best done IMO, by being part of a group on FB, or a Blog by the equivalent of WoS, and I’ll plug Another Angry Voice, who the Rev. has referred to in the past, so he rates this independent Yorkshire blogger, he does great analysis, and easy to understand.
What with the above, and following the other independent writers, that takes up enough, plus I’m a new member of SNP, and getting involved. I’m delivering fracking leaflets next week.
Basically, anything anti WM!
Panda: Have you been watching QI?
Good one. Chuckle. Almost missed it. 🙂
I’m sitting here with a pile of admin work to complete and doing my best not to notice it!
Who really wants dirty, un-environmental fracking at their back door? No amount of money could get me agree to the damage that will be done to my home, water sources and landscape.
The cental belt of Scotland has taken years to recover from damage and pollution caused by the coal and steel industries, do we want to go down that road once again?
Considering that Scotland produced enough power through clean re-newables, hydro, wind and wave to suppy over 3 million homes in the UK in October.
I purchased red, white and purple poppies this year.
The traditional red for the Earl Haig Fund, Purple for animals that have lost their lives in war and the white peace poppy. The latter two for the first time.
A red poppy I will always purchase, but very rarely wear is in memory of my great grandfather and great uncle who both die in WWI.
I however feel that the act of “Remembrance” has lost it’s true meaning in recent years and this has co-incided with all the recent conflicts from The Falklands right though to the present troubles in Iraq.
Westminster orders these men and women into conflict and many of them come home damaged beyond repair both physically and mentally and I believe that it is the responsibility of the government to provide the facilities, aid and assistance to veterans in their home countries, so that they can recouperate with their families and be able to live as normal lives as possible without ending up destitute, not the general public.
Two former rectors of Dundee Uni discussing Mennie’s on QI…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWKQvoUynEA
Just a reminder the Scottish Evening News will be kicking off tomorrow. A half hour news show.
I added the badges for people to use, so there’s the tax discs, badegs with a border and without. Change them, put a coloured background on, whatever, they’re free for personal use, and for any commercial activity connected with fundraising for YES.
http://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/
@crazycat
I’ll try to set up a gmail email address via my laptop and post it here, then you could send me the jpgs / bmps and I can upload them with credit to crazycat of course!
test
Any reports of turnout for Catalan’s dry run vote?
Disregard my last comment, my impatience for a true Scottish news programme getting the better of me. 🙁
Gary45% 6.44pm
“I am travelling down to Glasgow on Friday, with my 30 pieces of silver for the Biased Brodcasting Corporation.”
Can you explain what you are going to Pacific Quay with 30pieces of silver for Gary? I’m a bit slow on the up take with this one.
Grouse Beater
Seen on RT website that as of 6pm nearly 2m have voted
@A.N.Surgent Repeating my post re the Scottish news from Jack & James…
This week we can finally tell you a little bit more…
We have finished our filming for the next part of the project, a short video which will be launched, at the same time as our new website, on Monday at 11am!
We’re busy getting everything in line for the launch of the website and will be in the office all weekend trying to get the word out.
We couldn’t have gotten to this stage without all of you, so it’s only fair we let you know what’s happening before everyone else, so here’s what we’ll be telling the press over the next few days.
Scottish News will provide a 30-minute online news bulletin every day.
Details of the project are laid out in a video to be posted at 11am on Monday 10th November 2014 at: http://www.scottishnews.scot
Called the Scottish Evening News, the bulletin will be unique in providing well-resourced, high-quality video coverage of international, UK and Scottish stories from a Scottish viewpoint. It will focus on reporting facts, not making comment. It will bring the perspective of the people to Scotland to bear on the main events of day, wherever they happen.
Scottish News is a social enterprise, funded by individual donations. The bulletin will be free from the influence of shareholders, politicians and advertisers.
The team will be hiring full time journalists, correspondents, production and technical staff. And the show will be the flagship component of a national news package focused around a comprehensive up-to-the-minute website, including supplementary video news, accompanying resources, and extended analysis of the day’s stories.
While the bulletin will broadcast daily in spring 2015, the team plan to move it to a digital TV channel by 2018, at which time it will expand to provide 24 hour broadcasting.
Currently, as you know the team consists of Jack, James and Carolyn, and we are very happy to announce that we have been working with Stewart Kirkpatrick who has come on board as a consultant, and brought with him a wealth of knowledge and experience.
We apologies that this email wasn’t with you earlier this morning, we’ve been trying to keep to a set time for our weekly updates! We’re still going to be keeping you all updated week to week, but we’ll also be launching our social media pages on Monday along with our website where you can keep up with what’s going on.
We’ll send you all an email on Monday to let you know where you can find us on Facebook & Twitter and to let you see our new website!
Thank you for your continued support.
Yours, the Scottish News Team.
Poppies, I dont really care it does’nt affect my life..
People having this ongoing row Stop it nobody really cares it does’nt affect their life…
SNP candidates, I am totally comfortable trusting my elected government in their choice..That does affect my life and i’m still comfortable
Can you tell how happy i am yet..Cheer up folks it’s going really well…Sheesh!!! yud think we were losin…
O/T the Sunday Express (England) had a piece by Labour saying Labour couldn’t guarantee pension levels if they were elected due to austerity measures. Unbelievable! After threatening Scotland with worse pensions if it had voted yes.
Nana Smith
Got the e-mail myself and totally read it wrong. I only seen what I wanted to see which was complete and utter nonsense. 🙁
@Fiona says: 9 November, 2014 at 6:39 am:
“So what good but not too expensive anti-virus software can I get hopefully online to save having to travel miles to a pc shop?”
Sorry if I’m a bit late, Fiona, I was on my big desktop machine ripping and re-recording a a cracked music CD that cannot be bought now. I’m also disabled so can sympathise with your problems.
What you need is the good anti-virus software that comes free from Microsoft themselves. However, Microsoft has stopped supporting XP now so it isn’t available for older machines but should be free for more recent machines.
Google – “Microsoft Security Essentials”, (without inverted commas), and it should get it for your computer. I’m on my wee XP netbook now so it just tells me it isn’t available for this machine. So I cannot just give you a link to click. You may need to Google, “Microsoft Security Essentials download”.
Another stop gap is to download – Malwarebytes free version from : –
http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/lp4/?gclid=CI60_P-r7sECFUMTwwodQy8AoA
Hope that helps.
Frae Auld Bob.
Who’s that holding thew middle of the banner caz-m ?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rrxfud&s=8
For this who would like to see the individual counts coming in for the Catalan vote, follow their radio station twitter here: @324cat
It looks like an easy 10-1 For Yes-Yes. I believe a lot of possible no voters have abstained. They also hit 2 million votes earlier which for reason I’m not sure of was considered significant.
The second question has caused issues with a substantial amount leaving it blank despite a Yes to the first question.
Good luck to them. Over to you Madrid.
OT can anyone rember if better together had a rally other than the Trafalgar Square thing and the George Square thing.
Trying to help my daughter for uni presentation where she has give both side’s.
@ John King 8.31 Thats Mark our Catalonian friend,kin u no tell wie the flag he,s holding & the guy wie the Ginger dug is Paul WGD.
I *think* this may be the final result (at least in advance of the results from the ones that stay open for a couple of weeks)
62,4% Sí-Sí
15,8% Sí-No
10,9% No
Thanks Ronnie,
I know Paul though I met him in the Counting house (2)
Hmm, think the percentage stats I posted might have been for one area. Looking at the individual results, it seems to be a landslide double Yes.
There are 5.4m eligible voters. They seem to be considering 2m enough to make a statement and they have went over that. Unfortunately, this will be open to the simple argument that the No voters did not come out as there was no point with Madrid saying it is not recognised.
If you could expect a similar turnout to ours in a ‘full” referendum. Then 4.57m would vote. Taking it to extremes, something like 2.3m si-si votes will be required to fully rubbish the above argument.
More realistically, if the vote is anything above 80% with over 2m turnout, for me that is unequivecal.
@liz g –
There was the Armed Forces Day gig near Stirling, but I don’t suppose that ‘counts’ as a BT event. I don’t recall them ever doing anything (i.e. that wasn’t indoors/by invitation etc) that got more of a crowd than an average WOS social night.
@ CRAIGthePICT
If there are 5.2 m eligible voters, then you have to find out the turnout. Does anyone know that or do we have to wait for a fortnight till polls close? Only then will we know the majority.
Democracy is sometimes very slow!
Sorry, 5.4 eligible voters!
Craig: It looks like an easy 10-1 For Yes-Yes
Interesting to see what form attacks on the integrity of the result take, the concocted reasons why it’s allegedly a false result, ad nauseam.
Ronnie: the guy wie the Ginger dug is Paul
Yon ‘wee’ ginger dug isnae sae wee efter awe, pal!
Capella
what is the odd 200,000 voters here or there?
@ Grouse Beater http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3571253/videos/67554151
Well it is Catalonian, an sunshine makes awe things grow,tounges stuck tae ma cheek.
Capella says:
9 November, 2014 at 9:34 pm
@ CRAIGthePICT
If there are 5.2 m eligible voters, then you have to find out the turnout.
There were some celebrations as they breached 2 million (turnout) that was not long before the polls closed so probably not too much over that. Then there will be the late voters waiting for their ID cards over the next 2 weeks to add to that (surely not a lot?).
@ Ian Brotherhood 9.33 pm
Thank you very much.
O/T request for information:
Fairly recently I saw (in several places, I think – definitely more than one) a picture of Jim Murphy and another man at an arms fair (or similar), with Murphy holding a missile.
Does anybody have a link to that picture, please? Or remember where it was? I’ve looked at a couple of twitter accounts but not found it – I don’t do twitter or facebook, so am confined to publicly available posts.
@yesindyref2
I was unexpectedly out all afternoon, so have not yet gone back to my badges, but I’ll look out for your posting a way for me to send them once I’ve got them into an acceptable state; thanks.
@ann
`Purple poppies for animals.`
Over 8 million horses were killed during the First World War.
After the end of the war the animal loving British did not want the survivors back because of transport costs and disease so they were slaughtered for food .
@crazycat
Was it not the picture of the bufoon Murphy with a submarine in his hands.
so Andy Murray,s a briton again.
@ Jim Murphy
Are these your friends. Somehow reminiscent of George Square, no?
Zio fascists roam streets of Jerusalem chanting “Death to Arabs”
http://www.5pillarz.com/video/zio-fascists-roam-streets-of-jerusalem-chanting-death-to-arabs/
@ Scot Finlayson
Yes – I couldn’t remember if it was a missile or a model submarine. Do you know where it was? Thanks.
Delboys Live
@ Scot Finalyson – scratch that; I’ve found it.
@ Scot Finlayson
Oops! In my haste to post before you went searching, I typed your name wrong. Sorry!
Caz-m, Google “Judas Iscariot” – the 30 pieces of silver are my way of getting at the BBC for betraying the Scottish people by rigging the referendum. If other people on this site think it’s pointless – tell me, to save me wasting my time.
Gary
Caz,
Is this the one you’re thinking of?
https://archive.today/nJZQq
@ Gary, your no needing your tinfoil hat the noo wrap 2ps in tinfoil & send them, bbc are worth less but hey ho you,ve made your point.
@Gary45% –
IMO, civil disobedience is the way to go now, and if what you’re doing can be classified as such, more power to ye mister.
That picture was meant for ‘Crazycat’, not ‘Caz’, sorry.
https://archive.today/nJZQq
@crazycat
The spellings of` Finlayson ` in my life have been legion.
The thought that one of the Traitors/Red Torys is a Findlay makes my DNA sick.
Macbeths father was Findlaech mac Ruadri , and the Annals of Ulster call Macbeth, Mac Findlaech .
So basically when we get Independence then get rid of the German Queen , a Finlayson could be on the throne.
Wall to Wall armed forces,
Rolloanramorra.
@ Stoker. FFS dont gie him the button tae
crazycat
yesindyref2 – same moniker – at gmail dot com. No idea if it can accept attachments!
o/t just saw ‘sportscene’ with the usual obligatory shots of crowds observing a minutes’ silence. The one from Pittodrie shocked me…not because of the banner hanging from the Dick Donald stand’s actual words of ‘Aberdeen remembers’, it was the red coloured Union Jack!
FFS I know they voted ‘NO’ but have they now turned into Red ‘Huns’ as well?.. I spent a lot of years in Aberdeen and watched the successful team of the ’80s and anyone trying to wave a butcher’s apron of any colour got booted. My only recall was at Parkhead when some N.E. loyalists somehow appeared amongst the Dons support and pulled a UJ out. They didn’t last long.
I know that there are many non-N.E. natives who support the Dons, but that particular flag was hated by most Reds that I knew. Is the start of Loyalism rearing its ugly head amongst the Aberdeen support?
Even if it was a wind up of the supposedly ‘disloyal’ Celtic support…its so wrong on so many levels and I’m shocked and disappointed at the main support allowing it.
Yesindyref2
My giant sized YES badge now resides permanently in my redundant tax disc holder.
Gary45%
“If other people on this site think it’s pointless – tell me, to save me wasting my time”
You get yourself into Pacific Quay Gary and remember and take someone with a big camera with you.
And the staff at BBC Scotland are so welcoming
Hi crazycat et al.
Did you see my post about badges up above?
http://wingsoverscotland.com/if-only-someone-had-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-1922854
@ lochside
I know Aberdeen supporters who are firmly YESSERS. Don’t allow rumour and gossip to divide you all. Don’t let the “blazerati” (Kevin McKenna) set the agenda!
ronnie anderson says:
9 November, 2014 at 11:10 pm
@ Stoker. FFS dont gie him the button tae
Nae chance, Ronnie, am mare likely tae gie him the malky.
@Lochside
That flag was an Aberdeen style Union Jack, it was not a UJ. There is also a satire style Aberdeen flag, but instead of blue there is red. Hibs have/had the same UJ style flag, although it was associated with a certain element of their support in the past if you catch my drift. There is no chance of Loyalism getting a foothold in the Aberdeen support.
@ Lochside
Sorry I missed Sportscene tonight .
There are plenty Yessers in the AFC camp , even Rev Stu ?
I’m sure he has uttered COYR .
I can only assume it was meant as some sort of wind up , maybe someone will post an explanation in Off Topic .
I can assure anyone who may be unsure , there is not a jot of favour for “Red Huns “
yesindyref2 6.11
U don’t have to just flap around – there is fundraising – canvassing friends in the Greens and SNP to bring back the YES coalition – persuading some friends that did not work the last time to work this time – organising your hols to have April off (I have) – and thinking of other ways to help (EGI spotted Osbourns words and email the Rev within 10 mins)
Nevertheless you make some good points
@lochside
Are you actually proposing Celtic fans flying the Union flag?
Surely not?
http://www.banthebomb.org/index.php/news/trident/1616-smith-commission-submission
Just got a glimpse of the Financial Times headlines saying that Osborne will need to raise the yearly austerity bill from £25 Billion to £48 Billion. He has suddenly realised that he is not going to meet his targets.
WOW! We are in for the Mother of all cutbacks, for years to come.
UDI starting to look an attractive option.
@ caz_m will the rest of the scottish people wake up now or will the bbc spin it as a positive
@ Stoker
Yes, thanks, that was the one. I hope you didn’t spend too long looking for it though – inevitably, I found it myself just after asking Scot if he knew where it was. It’s on its way to the person who was asking me about it this afternoon.
@ yesindyref2
Thanks to you, too – when I’m satisfied (if ever) with my designs, I’ll send them over for your comments.
@ Brian
I did see that you had posted a link, but was diverted – I’ll look at it now. Thanks.
@Brian Doonthetoon
Yes I looked, that new “Being Scottish …” is really attractive, and unisex with it! I’m not into the “Don’t blame me I voted YES”, but it’s still a good thing for some to wear to get home the message. I think there’s a few messages we want to make over the next months.
@Cadogan Enright
Yes, there’s still plenty to do, making sure we’re ready for the next time, and doing what we can for the 7/5/15.
Caz m at 12.05
Yep we aint seen nothing yet. Oh what that few billion set aside for trident could do. Such flowery ideas, such fantasy, alas, better together, not.
Old news I know – but chortle chortle http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/poll-snp-will-win-54-seats-scotland
Well, I said (in my opinion) if over 2m turnout with over 80% voting Yes:Yes, that would be a result (despite no voters abstaining). The latest:
In 88.44 % of polling stations , 2,043,226 people voted . The government estimates that a total of 2,250,000 people have voted.
So far Yes:Yes is sitting on 80.72%
81% Si Si!
Craig Murray
At the risk of being regarded as an apologist for Morag by Grouse Beater,
I can tell you one of her concerns (to my recollection) is your point about the line the sea boundary takes,
her point is (I hope Im not misquoting you here Morag?)it should follow the line of the land border and that the moving of the sea boundary was only correcting a historical mistake,
I personally agree with you that the line should be at right angles to the shore line,
But I may entirely wrong about her reasons.
Well, it seems Osborne is playing with fire, and if Westminster backs it, then expect a flaming inferno!
‘Let’s have an oil fund! for the north of England!’
That is (1) not going to go down well with Scotland which has seen it’s own resource squandered (2) We’re meant to a be sharing United Kingdom. This is what we were told in the lead up to the referendum. But it is OK for the NoE to have an oil fund, but not Scotland.
When the Scots see this being implemented, then thoughts of Orwell’s, ‘We are all equal, but some are more equal than others’.
Expect eruption of fury in Scotland…
JLT @6.40
Ayup
he has one thought and one thought only,
STICK IT TO THE SWEATIES!
SiSI
You and your Spanish Eyes, will wait for me.
Are you going to the Hydro in Glasgow for Nicola?
JLT says
“When the Scots see this being implemented, then thoughts of Orwell’s, ‘We are all equal, but some are more equal than others’.
Expect eruption of fury in Scotland…”
Dont kid yourself JLT,
the chances of Osbourne giving that oil fund to NE of England are less than zero, no he’s just trying to stir it with us,
why?
because we said he can when we voted no that’s why!
@ Bugger
Alas no, it’s a significant birthday for she who must be obeyed.
@ Conan
21 again??
Regarding the maritime boundary between Scotland and England, there’s a good article on EJIL:
http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf
For those not wanting to read, skip through to Map 1!
Does anyone know the potential number of voters and the actual numbers who voted?
Watching the video, Gordon Brewer comes across as having the mental age of a 6 year old, no offence to 6 year olds meant.
Why o why are there so many people who can not see what is happening to Scotland’s oil revenues
@BTP
http://www.catalannewsagency.com/politics/item/2-25-million-catalans-participate-in-non-binding-vote-independence-option-won-with-80-support
81% voted for independence and 10% for a Catalan State within a federal or confederated Spain
Catalans had to answer the following two-part question: “Do you want Catalonia to become a State? If yes, do you want to become an independent State?” By answering with a double “yes” to the question citizens are backing independence from Spain. Those voting “yes” to the first part and “no” to the second are backing a Catalan State within a federal or confederated Spain. Finally, those voting “no”, back the current ‘status quo’ of the Autonomous Community system or the option to recentralise power.
With 88.44% of the polling stations having delivered their results, the Vice President of the Catalan Government announced the first official results of the night. So far, 2,043,000 votes had been counted and they estimate a definitive turnout of 2.25 million people. The independence option clearly won, with 80.72% of the votes so far (around 1.65 million), and it could reach 1.8 million by the end of the night. The intermediate option, supporting the creation of a Catalan State but within a federal or confederated Spain, got 10.11% of the votes. Those opposing independence and also against going beyond the current Autonomous Community system represented 4.55% of the cast votes. There were 0.98% of people who supported the creation of a Catalan State but abstained from saying whether it should be independent from Spain or not. Finally, there were 0.56% NOTA votes and 3.09% expressing other things.
Yesindyref2 at 0732,
Good link on the boundary matter – an article which also exposes why an indy Shetland would get none of the oil, regardless of Scottish independence. There is also an excellent article regarding the illegal sea boundary change to the detriment of Scotland, here;
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/01/scotlandengland-maritime-boundaries/