The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

If I’m right and you are sinful

Posted on January 08, 2017 by

We’ve never been all that convinced by the political strategy of parties angrily pointing out their rivals have supposedly broken their manifesto promises once in government. After all, since by definition the complaining party was very probably opposed to the policies in question, shouldn’t they be delighted if they haven’t been enacted?

(It’s different, of course, in the event of something like a referendum, where something that all of the parties concerned agree is good – staying in the EU, say, or protecting jobs in the civil service or the oil industry – is promised in return for a particular vote, but then swiftly trashed once that vote is won.)


It’s even weirder if the opposition was the REASON the policies didn’t get enacted. It’s incredibly bizarre to vote something down (as the Unionist parties did repeatedly to the SNP minority administration of 2007-11 when it brought its manifesto pledges forward), and then huff at the governing party for the fact that you outvoted them.

But today the Scottish Tories have found an intriguing new twist on the wheeze.

The Scottish Mail On Sunday and the Times both carry a story straight out of a Tory press release which alleges that the SNP have failed to carry out 51 of their manifesto commitments from the 2007 and 2011 elections.


The party doesn’t actually appear to have released the list anywhere, so we can’t verify it, and neither paper seems to have bothered to either. We’ve checked the Scottish Conservatives website and the Twitter feeds of the party, Ruth Davidson, Jackson Carlaw, Murdo Fraser, Adam Tomkins and John Lamont (the spokesman quoted in the articles) and they’re all concerned with more pressing matters of state.




But there are all sorts of pretty obviously weird things about the attack. The first two we’ve already covered above. The third is that whether the promises in the 2007 and 2011 manifestos were all kept and how much that matters is something that’s already been judged by the electorate – in the 2011 and 2016 elections respectively, both of which the SNP won in a landslide – so it’s hard to imagine what the Tories are hoping to achieve by raking over them again now.

Strangest of all, though, is seeing the Tories taking their tactical playbook from the one party in Scotland that you’d think absolutely nobody would want to emulate.


Scottish Labour campaigned in the 2011 Holyrood election on the back of a dossier alleging almost twice as many “broken SNP promises” in just four years as the Tories claim to have found in 10 years. The result was the first of the galactic-scale thrashings the voters of Scotland have handed the party on a regular basis ever since.

(The Tories assert that 29 promises from the 2007 manifesto were in fact broken, which logically means that since 2011 the SNP must have delivered 71 of the ones Labour were complaining about, which is pretty good going in anyone’s book.)


It’s not exactly a shock to see Scotland’s two main opposition parties acting like they’ve already merged, of course. It’s just that if one of them was going to crib its moves from the other one, you’d have thought it’d be the one that’s sinking like a stone that’d be desperately trying to copy the one that was on the up.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 08 01 17 13:56

    If I’m right and you are sinful | speymouth

  2. 08 01 17 14:11

    If I’m right and you are sinful - Talking Drum

339 to “If I’m right and you are sinful”

  1. frogesque says:

    Curioser and curiouser. Alice’s Adventures are turning up some real doozies.

  2. Hamish100 says:

    I thought our First Minister played a blinder today on Marr’s show. The remainers in England and Wales will support the idea of staying in the “common market”. In effect supporting in part the Scottish Governments position.
    May will have to say NO.
    2 years to encourage independent thought and action.
    14yr olds today will be pro Scotland and EU by the time they vote.

    As for broken promises– does that include The Vow? Devo Max, Vote NO to remain in Europe. The Tory’s are liars but use labour as their proxy. Something Labour hasn’t worked out yet.

  3. Macart says:

    Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m pretty satisfied with the conduct of the current Scottish Government. Given the enormous fiscal and constitutional restraints they are forced to work under, I’d say what they have managed to achieve to date is nothing short of pretty impressive.

    If they ever subject their electorate to the appalling practices and societal carnage that the establishment parties have over the past several decades, I’ll maybe reconsider that assessment. Until such a time comes to pass, they’ll have my vote.

  4. winifred mccartney says:

    Just goes to show what good governance the snp provide for Scotland if the opposition parties have to go hunting through old manifestos to find something to complain about. Well done SNP and well done to all to work for scotland in the SNHS the police the care sector, all public servants and people of every age who want scotland to thrive for the benefit of all. And to all the opposition parties and MSM who have nothing good to say about or for Scotland you are losing everyone who ever believed in you because of your lies, your constant carping and your misinformation.

  5. Capella says:

    Well, Kezia is cribbing the Ruth Davidson Unionist Party. Her priority for 2017 is to “save the Union”. Kevin McKenna was withering in his media review on GMS today. From 1:20:14 to 1:24:30 his final few words drip contempt. Labour could act like an opposition – “…But no, of course, we want to save the Union”.

  6. Davy says:

    It hardly bares believing, that two newspapers have issued a story claiming the SNP have not completed 51 of their manifesto promises for the previous two past elections.

    What fucking barrel are they scrapping that load of shite from. And having the tories so-called challenging the SNP about it, is like getting whacked across the forehead wee a weet fag-paper.

    A totally nothing story.

  7. HandandShrimp says:

    When I look at the Tories in Westminster or Labour in Cardiff I thank my luck stars I live in Scotland.

    The problem Ruth has is that the news shows daily how crap things are under Tory rule. That is a hrad act to sell…and I’m not buying it. There are things that I would like the SNP to do but it is more a matter of speed of progress rather than direction. On the whole I am content and I will be voting SNP in May.

  8. Robert Graham says:

    As has been continually pointed out here this drip drip drip has to be actively countered as soon as it surfaces, if it wasn’t for Stuart Campbell and other blogs who would find the truth behind the misleading inaccurate headlines, Tommy Sheppard saw the danger I hope to f/ck someone at the top in the SNP are actively following this site and maybe just maybe getting off their arses and actually doing something, the natives are getting pissed off and restless being constantly attacked .

  9. Fred says:

    These newspapers treat their readers like half-wits! Probably correct in that assumption!

  10. HandandShrimp says:


    It is one of the reasons that Wings is so hated. Stu responds almost immediately to this sort of pish and given the size of the readership of Wings and his Twitter feed it hits the ether quickly and widely. We know by the moans and accusations that most of the opposition and journalists read this site, whereas most of us don’t waste our time looking at the lack lustre sites they have set up in response (assuming places like SIU even have one).

  11. galamcennalath says:

    I would have thought that the Tories in North Britain would have kept quiet about broken promises …. what with the multitude of broken promises from the 2014 NO campaign and now Brexit threatening to reverse one of the biggest promises of IndtyRef1.

  12. Golfnut says:

    I remember clearly reading about the SNP’s first term in office, part of which dealt with the election manifesto. It sited that only 14 of the pledges had been unfulfilled, but explained this was because of it forming a minority government. There was a comparison with the previous administration which frankly showed the lib lab coalition in a very poor light.

    I am sure it was in a newspaper, going to search, but can anyone else remember this.

  13. Hamish100 says:


    I am sure you are right. One part was that monies earmarked for upgrading the A9 and other infrastructure projects couldn’t happen because lid dems, labour and greens voted for the Edinburgh tram debacle (mismanagement by the tories lid dems and greens)

  14. Golfnut says:

    Ok, here goes, this looks the SNP response to a Telegraph article, surprised, no neither am I, which on behalf of the Labour party was critical of the SNP’s first term in office.

    Hope the link works.

  15. Golfnut says:

    It’s not the one I was looking for, but the first one I came across, will keep looking.

  16. Robert Graham says:

    I watched Nicola Sturgeon on the Andrew Marr program and despite a few interruptions the point she made about not being an equal member of this Union just shows to highlight a totally indefensible argument for continuing this arrangement I think that simple point should be Trumpeted continually we either have a contribution to make or we don’t, if there is any question of our status, that’s it game over all MPs recalled from Westminster and let’s see who blinks first .

  17. Robert Peffers says:

    Bloody hilarious, Rev Stu.

    Here is a wee snippet from the BBC biography of Keir Hardie. The very first of the Labour Party MPs to, if you will pardon the expression, “Grace”, the benches of the House of Commons.

    ” … In 1892, Keir Hardie was invited to stand as the Independent Labour Party candidate for West Ham in east London. He won and took his seat in parliament.

    He marked himself out as a radical both by his dress – he wore a tweed suit when most members of parliament wore more formal dress – and the subjects he advocated, included – women’s rights, free schooling and pensions and Indian self-rule. He was heavily criticised for appearing to attack the monarchy, which may have contributed to his defeat in the 1895 election. “

    So what of those commitments made by Labour in 1892?

    women’s rights:- The latest figures show that woman’s rights have not yet reached parity with Men’s rights.

    Free Schooling :- 29 December 1944 saw the introduction of the English Education Act that made education compulsory but it is not clear if that meant free education and tracking down the information is very, very difficult.

    Indian self-rule On Aug. 15, 1947, India became independent.

    Free Pensions. No one, except perhaps the Royals and Members of Parliament, (including the Lords), get free pensions. We pay for them by our NI payments while even Civil Service pensions are paid for by the pensioner’s wage increases being reduced in relation to similar jobs in the private sector.

    So! Never let it be said that the Parliamentary Labour Party does not keep its manifesto promises – it just takes a while to keep them and other parties often have to fulfil them for Labour.

  18. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella says: 8 January, 2017 at 1:47 pm:

    ” … Labour could act like an opposition – “…But no, of course, we want to save the Union”.

    After following your link, Capella, I have sore sides laughing.

    When I arrived at the website a wee pop-up made an appearance and asked me what I thought of their website. I never watched the iPlayer link as although entitled to a free TV licence I did not apply for one. It is thus illegal for me to watch the iplayer. But the laughter was due to the immediate thought that passed through my mind, ““Oh! I think just about the same for your website as I think about your programmes and your iPlayer”, so I never got round to actually watching the clip.

  19. handclapping says:

    @Robert Peffers
    That link gets me to a iPlayer of Radio Shortbread and as I understand it we non-licence holders are allowed to listen to radio so you should be legal.

  20. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffers @ 3.21

    The Education Act 1944 (England and Wales) and 1945 for Scotland made Secondary Education free and raised the leaving age to 15

    Compulsory elementary education for Children from the ages of 5-13 was introduced to England and Wales via the Education Act of 1870 and in Scotland by the Education Act of 1872 which took responsibility for education out of the hands of the Parishes and into the hands of School Boards.

    In neither Act was free education introduced although some provision was made in later Acts to provide for children from poorer families.

  21. What is abundantly clear is the fact that the Empire is in total meltdown and the sense of desperation from the troughers is
    becoming overwhelming.

    We are into the last dark days and the attacks,false flags,disinformation and outright lies will become more frequent and worse as th inevitable Indyref2 and the subsequent YES vote gets closer.

    The Brexit stramash is becoming all that it was ever going to be.

    The almost unreported ENHS scandal shows the grip that the Establishment has on their corrupt MSM.

    And this is what Bitter Together wanted to foist on the SNHS?


    Not long now.

  22. Vestas says:

    @ Juan P 4:29pm

    If true then its long overdue.

    Sadly I don’t think its the last load of crap we’re going to hear from Mike Small 🙁

  23. carjamtic says:

    Now that the BBC cathode ray propaganda gun is being progressively ‘unplugged’ the less effective this type of bullying ‘tag team’ politics is becoming.

    Davidson,Dugdale,Bailey,the ‘sweat for betty’ team are done and no amount of shadow boxing or ‘towelling’ by their loyal cornerman,wee willie will revive them.

    SNP baad,is all they ever had in Scotland,meanwhile in Westminster,Labour is only really a plastic opposition,merely playing lip service to the Toxic Tory Policies,they cannot be recycled and are heading for landfill.

    In NS we have a calm,composed FM who consistently delivers on her innovative ideas and is always working in Scotland’s best interests.

    Yes,we know they will summon up their riders in the MSM,for one final ‘fox hunt’,one final blow of the bugle,but they are simply chasing their own XXXL shadows.

    ….shadows of their own denial,anger,bargaining,depression….they will soon come face to face with the shadow of their own acceptance,their time is up.


  24. Alan Johnston says:

    The source seems to be a paper from ThinkScotland by Murdo Fraser entitled “Abandoned” and “failed to deliver” – the SNP’s broken promises revealed.
    Certainly, the numbers seem to match. It needs analysis by somebody more knowledgeable than me, but some of it is extremely picky.
    e.g. broadband uptake to be equal or above UK rate
    Scotland 76% E&W 77% = failed to deliver.

  25. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes. A major reason Labour did so badly in 2011 is because of the negativity of their campaign which dissed the SNP and had no policies at the heart of it – or at least that was the perception I think a lot of people had. Since May this year the Conservtives at Holyrood have become Tories, and taken on the mantle of the failed Labour party, copying their losing tactics.

    I think it’s because the Tory analysis is that Project Fear worked in the Indy Ref – it must have because it resulted in a NO vote in the Indy Ref. The Westminster analysis we’ve seeen in the media the last year all claims it worked, the grandees, the spokespeople, the strategist. So the Remain campaign in the EU Ref copied it. Well, that worked for them now, didn’t it? And yet the Holyrood Tories, a term I tend to use with contempt as opposed to Conservative which for me represents just a different political outlook, are continuing their negativity.

    Good. And in time, good riddance to bad Tory rubbish.

  26. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Graham says: 8 January, 2017 at 2:03 pm:

    ” … Tommy Sheppard saw the danger I hope to f/ck someone at the top in the SNP are actively following this site and maybe just maybe getting off their arses and actually doing something, the natives are getting pissed off and restless being constantly attacked.”

    Oh! Grow up and use your loaf, Robert, Tommy Shepard is “Someone at the top”. He is not only an MP but also the SNP’s spokesperson on the Cabinet Office in the House of Commons.

    To the best of my knowledge the party knew all about the Westminster Propaganda wing way back when I first started to follow the SNP in 1946.

    After all it wasn’t that long after May 1941 when Arthur Donaldson’s home was raided by the police, who claimed they suspected him, and other SNP figures, of “subversive activities”, due to their support for the Scottish Neutrality League. Note it says, “Neutrality League”.

    All this just based on an unnamed informant who walked into MI5 and told the desk officer, “Richard Brooman-White”, that if there was a Nazi invasion Donaldson intended to set up a puppet government like that of Vidkun Quisling.

    Donaldson was arrested and interned under Defence Regulation 18B. Sent to Kilmarnock Prison and later to Barlinnie, where he was held for six weeks.
    Papers from MI5, show that there were MI5 led raids made against many other Scottish nationalists and claimed, “subversive literature” and a “large cache of weapons” were found in Donaldson’s house.

    These MI5 files, (first relesed in 1994 after Donaldson’s death), were denied by his widow, Violet Donaldson, and also by the surviving SNP leaders of the time. Yet Donaldson was never charged and no evidence for the MI5 allegations has ever been shown or found. Donaldson’s arrest was said to be because of his war time protests against the conscription of Scottish women for defence work in English factories. I know this because my own mother, due to a government mistake, was conscripted to armament factory work and Donaldson’s efforts were largely what got her returned to Scotland. In effect Donaldson was held as a political prisoner by Westminster.

    The Yoons still spout this propaganda today, Google Arthur Donaldson and you will get loads of anti-SNP bullshit. Mind you this was at a time when Moseley was a member of parliament and leader of the Brown-shirts. When much of the English aristocracy, including the King of England were NAZI sympathisers and when the Prime Minister of The UK was shaking hands with Hitler himself. The king did not abdicate because he wanted to marry a divorcee. He was forced from the throne for his NAZI leanings.

    Yet even today you will see the Yoons claiming the SNP were NAZIs because there is a photo of Donaldson speaking with members of the Hitler Youth. Yet there are photos and newsreels of the king, the PM and many other Englanders in Germany in the company of Hitler. The thing is that the two nations were not then at war and many people who opposed war were trying to negotiate to prevent war.

    So, Robert, it is one thing to talk about the SNP doing nothing but quite another thing to say what you think they can do about it. You can compose and write press releases until your hands won’t open from Repetitive Strain Syndrome and attempt to have your say on TV and radio. How, though, do you force the papers, TV and radio to publish or broadcast them?

    For heaven’s sake we just had a comment on Wings of the companies who sell hoardings space for advertisements refusing to allow indy posters to be exhibited.

    Let me give you another example of Yoonionism at work – Alex Salmond called a press conference for the World Press. It was packed to the doors with foreign correspondents and included wee liar Nick Robinson.

    We Nicky asked an a very arrogant, stupid and aggressive question. Alex remained unfazed, calm and collected and spent several minutes refuting, and quite frankly making wee Nicky look like the fool he is.

    Within minutes there were reports on the BBCs extensive radio, on-line and TV pages with an edited version of the Robinson question being asked at the press conference but cut at that point , and then Robinson voicing over, “and he didn’t answer the question.”

    Now millions of people in the World saw or listened to the full version and heard the long and detailed Salmond answer but, according to the liars of the BBC this never happened. That, Robert is the reality – you can take a press release to the Yoons but you cannot make the MSM print or broadcast it. Claiming otherwise is to be, “an accessory after the event”, for the liars actions.

  27. yesindyref2 says:

    I had a look at Bella, and posted in support – a posting which will probably never appear because I was banned for disagreeing with the “Editor”. Which says it all.

    But it will be a shame to see it go, it had and still has, some good articles.

  28. winifred mccartney says:

    anyone got a link to that chart showing what each party said yes/no to in the Smith Commission – trying to convince someone and can’t find it – thank you. Going to start printing things like that to have for reference.

  29. Capella says:

    @ Robert Peffers – happy to hear you were amused by the BBC vanity pop up – tell us what you think. . But you don’t need a licence to listen to the radio and that clip was from Good Morning Scotland this morning. So feel free to indulge.
    1:20:14 to 1:24:30

  30. Smallaxe says:

    On a lighter note, I thought our FM Nicola was looking stunning and glowing with a positively determined attitude.

    The other lot are getting the faces they deserve. 🙂
    Robert Peffers: My reply to you on the last post sir.
    Peace Always

  31. Robert Peffers says:

    @handclapping says: 8 January, 2017 at 4:04 pm:
    “That link gets me to a iPlayer of Radio Shortbread and as I understand it we non-licence holders are allowed to listen to radio so you should be legal.”

    Yes, handclapping, I know that and I do listen sometimes to them on both the FM, DAB and even to BBC Radio Scotland on their Freeview Channel. I have three TV sets but they are all SMART TVs that I use to access on-line services and for playing films and other recordings – YouTube, and so on.

    I also stream stuff around my wired home network so can watch/listen/record or play back video or audio from anywhere in the house or even on a laptop in the garden.

    I also have an Xbox 360 and a Blu-ray/DVD PVR and make, edit and show my own stuff. I certainly do not go short of stuff to view or listen to.

    I just didn’t bother with the clip because I was in kinks laughing at the pop-up request to take their survey to tell them what I thought of the BBC Shortbread website.

    Oh! By the way I designed and used to run my own website of my own poems, short stories and recordings. If I ever get enough time I might just brush up my HTML and put the site back up again.

    You may have gathered that I have an acute, perhaps too acute, sense of humour.

  32. Smallaxe says:

    That should read, last thread. Was I thinking about Bella C. last post?
    Peace Always

  33. Dan Huil says:

    Lost interest in bellacaledonia after it advocated splitting the SNP votes in May 2016 election.

  34. yesindyref2 says:

    I think with the SIC conference coming up next week, the ScotGov Single Market paper out with JMC meetings coming up this month to probably (hopefully) totally reject it, the UKSC appeal ruling due, and probably not much new news coming up meantime, I’ve run out of new opinions, so I think I’ll have some fun on the Express, Scotsman, maybe BBC even the DT for a change.

    Just posting factual comments, and counting the downvotes – for facts. It’s really funny. But you do get some intelligent replies occasionally so it’s worth getting the genuine reality of Scotland out there, to oppose the usual SNP-hating wummin fishy Krankie tripe and trosheen.

    Anyway, I also do my bit for tourism in Scotland while I’m at it. I could send visitscotland my bill but I somehow doubt if they’d pay it …

    @Robert Peffers
    Wordpress is easy to use, though not so easy to format. You can use native HTML in it, but it doesn;t always do what you want it to. But it means you can get an article up quickly, no need to use validator! I still hand-code my own business websites though, just from habit and my own ready templates.

  35. ScottieDog says:

    Aye shame about Bella. I guess there were always going to be casualties. Wish mike all the best in his next venture. Heck he even let me write an article in the lead up to indyref1!

  36. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links now over on O/T.

  37. galamcennalath says:

    Gave up on Bella Caledonia when it took a line which could well have derailed the whole Indy Project … no pro Indy majority in Holyrood, no Indy progress.

    As it turns out there is a pro Indy majority, but that was no thanks to their apparent attempt to sidetrack Scottish politics towards the relatively unpopular hard left at just the wrong time.

    That said, there has been a lot of good content. Shame. It should have stayed mainstream Yes.

  38. gerry parker says:

    Winifrid mccartney @ 5:32

    try this – it’s from my drop box file.

    if it dosen’t work I can e mail it to you

  39. HandandShrimp says:

    Bella’s Facdebook page is still running and they seem equally confused, especially as they have a fundraiser next week.

    10 years is a long time, maybe Mike just wants a break or the site has been hacked or something.

  40. winifred mccartney says:

    gerry parker – thank you thank you – I know someone just on the edge of being yes and would not believe what I said about labour not giving scotland these things in Smith. I was still looking for it when you posted. I am taking on board something another winger said that if everyone of us convinces another no voter we will be independent. Thank you so very much.

  41. Ruby says:

    Nicola Sturgeon on Andrew Marr

    Big thanks to Peter Curran much appreciated by those who don’t subscribe to the BBC

  42. Ghillie says:

    How sour it must be for the ‘opposition’ to wake every day and have to find something nasty to say. Can’t be good for their health.

    Like Macart and so many others,I can see and greatly appreciate the progress our SNP lead Scottish Government has made in the face of extreme attempts to hamper from all the usual suspects.

    Thanks Rev Stu for constantly calling them out = )

  43. Just watched “London Calling” to a full house at the small cinema in Dunoon. It is so much much more impressive on the large screen. Enthusiastic applause at the end and a determination that we must show it all across the country.

    The film not only destroys the BBC it makes plain the establishment conspiracy against democracy in Scotland.

  44. woosie says:

    I can think of 13 promises breached which Clyde shipbuilders will lament; they’re called frigates!

    The problem the “opposition” parties in Holyrood have is that Scotland is so well governed, despite the constraints from our imperial masters, that they have to focus on the constitution in an attempt to recruit more union jack types.

    Look at the comparisons with england;

    Prison riots

    Underground strikes

    Doctor strikes

    ENHS a humanitarian crisis

    Meanwhile, a train breaks down in Waverly Station and the forces of darkness declare anarchy chaos in Scotland!

  45. mike d says:

    Fred 2.09 pm. Exactly,only a half wit would read the Scottish media press.

  46. Swiss Perspective says:

    If Bella has indeed gone under, it will be a great pity. Yes, I would not agree with everything they have been putting out there, but they have been offering a very varied diet, even if in general a little to the left of me. That would be sorely missed, as they absolutely have their place in the pro-indy ecosystem – just as this site does (and I equally don’t always agree with it either).

  47. HandandShrimp says:

    Looks like Mike Small is looking to move into other work but Lesley seems to be suggesting that the magazine could spring back into life once the starting pistol is fired for another referendum or sooner if they come up with an alternative funding model.

  48. ScottishPsyche says:

    Hardly visited Bella since their divisive RISE strategy. I would be happy to help to fund it if Lesley Riddoch took over. I found Mike Small increasingly petty and patronising as time went on. The format and look is good though and he should be congratulated on that. It is unfortunate that the magazine became a victim of his prejudices.

  49. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    I can’t seem to get onto Bella. People rushing to donate or ‘told you so-ers’?

  50. Watched Nicola on the Marr show,

    thought she was magnificent,looked like a true stateswoman/politician,

    even a Tory yoon lickspittle like Marr seemed to be in awe of her,

    and she aint bluffing.

  51. Shinty says:


    Just watched the Marr interview with our FM on youtube.

    Marr “the SNP’s ultimate goal is independence” then carries on with “which many believe in London is all but impossible”

    Nearly had a ‘palpalury’ (spell check required).

    On a good note I think Ms Sturgeon was excellent. I’ve warmed to her considerably since watching her visit/speeches to the Irish Senate and Trinity College. No longer pay the BBC state propaganda licence fee so it’s good to catch up with these links on youtube. Cheers.

  52. Mungo says:

    Did Bella not just get 37 odd k in their last fundraiser only a few months back?

  53. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi woosie.

    You mentioned,
    “ENHS a humanitarian crisis”

    Coincidentally, I’ve just posted this comment on one or three Facebook pages…


    THE NHS…

    I’ll point out that the bulk of info here comes from Wikipedia so you can refer to that for confirmation. The quote further on, is from the link I’ll provide at the end.

    Contrary to what many people think, the NHS is not one ‘national’ organisation. The National Health Service in England (and Wales) was set up by a 1946 Act of Parliament and commenced in 1947. The Scottish Health Service was as a result of a 1947 Act of Parliament and commenced in 1948.

    NHS Wales was originally formed as part of the public health system for England and Wales created by the National Health Service Act 1946 with powers over the NHS in Wales coming under the Secretary of State for Wales in 1969. Responsibility for NHS Wales was passed to the Welsh Government under devolution in 1999 and has since then been the responsibility of the Welsh Minister for Health and Social Services.

    Similar health services in Northern Ireland were created by the Northern Ireland Parliament through the Health Services Act (Northern Ireland) 1948.

    Thus, there are FOUR completely separate NHS’s in the British Isles. They do tend to co-operate with each other, for the benefit of patients – like the blood transfusion and organ replacement programmes, for example.

    Here’s the quote I mentioned at the start of this post:-

    “The [Scottish] NHS didn’t suddenly appear from nothing on July 5, 1948. It also did not create a single new nurse, doctor or bed. Health Minister Aneurin (also known as Nye) Bevan merely nationalised the existing system across the UK. The revolutionary change was to make all services freely available to everyone.

    Half of Scotland’s landmass was already covered by a state-funded health system serving the whole community and directly run from Edinburgh. The Highlands and Islands Medical Service had been set up 35 years earlier. In addition, the war years had seen a state-funded hospital building programme in Scotland on a scale unknown in Europe. This was incorporated into the new NHS.

    Scotland also had its own distinctive medical tradition – centred on its medical schools rather than private practice. And a detailed plan for the future of health with the Cathcart report. Through the writings of AJ Cronin, the creator of Dr Finlay, it also shaped public opinion in favour of a National Health Service by exposing the injustices of existing provision.”
    (The link for this quote is at the end.)

    Now we get to my rant…
    Over the past couple of months, attempts have been made by politicians and the BUM (British Unionist Media) to conflate the problems being faced by NHS England and NHS Wales with the situation in Scotland. Ruth Davidson, of the ‘Vote Ruth Davidson Definitely Not A Tory’ party even stood up in the Holyrood Parliament at First Minister’s Questions and listed a pile of failings in the NHS and invited Nicola Sturgeon to say how she was going to address these failings. Unfortunately, all the failings mentioned were in NHS England, over which our First Minister has no control.

    ‘The Courier’ is the main regional newspaper in Scotland for the area from Fife up to Perthshire, Dundee, Angus and Aberdeenshire. These are recent headline stories from that ‘regional’ newspaper.

    “Labour demands £700m emergency cash injection to address NHS winter ‘crisis’”
    (7th Jan 2017.)
    “Red Cross steps into help NHS cope with ‘humanitarian crisis’”
    (6th Jan 2017.)
    “100,000 patients heading to A&E with dental problems each year, study claims”
    (6th Jan 2017.)
    “Two patients die at same A&E department amid pressure on NHS”
    (6th Jan 2017.)
    “Serious mistakes in NHS hospital patient care soar, figures reveal”
    (31st Dec 2016.)
    “Rats and cockroaches among thousands of pests found in NHS hospitals”
    (30th Dec 2016.)
    “NHS hospitals making more money than ever from car park charges, analysis shows”
    28th Dec 2016.)
    “NHS faces nearly £30m unpaid bill from overseas patients in one year”
    (20th Dec 2016.)

    In three weeks, The Courier has published these eight stories (there are actually more; those are just examples) about failings in “THE NHS”. The only problem I have with their reporting is that EVERY one of those stories is about failings in NHS England! Why, in the headlines, did it not state “NHS England”?

    Now, some may suggest that The Courier is trying to create confusion in the minds of their readers – referring to failings in the NHS in their headlines, only making it clear further down the story, that it is about NHS England. Thus making the Scottish Government look bad. Some may suggest that; I couldn’t possibly comment.

    The MAJOR fact is that NHS Scotland is out-performing the other three UK NHS’s, in terms of waiting times, patient satisfaction and so on. Why are the failures of NHS England being heavily reported in a SCOTTISH newspaper, rather than the successes of NHS Scotland?

    I wonder what the employees of NHS Scotland think about all this negativity in our Scottish press and TV?

    The link for the quote (there are links on the left of the page if you want to learn more about how Scotland laid the foundations of the NHS’s):-

  54. K1 says:

    Shhh for Indy wis his undoing.

    Bella may well survive, but not with Mike Small as ‘editor’.

  55. Mungo says:

    Can I ask, is anyone else having trouble accessing Derek Bateman’s Blog ?
    All I’m getting is strange, jumbled text?

  56. heedtracker says:

    Reading that’s like watching a clown fall downstairs. Bloody hell.

    What the what is up with Graun’s hammer of the Scots Severin Carrell?

    Friday its,

    EU referendum and Brexit
    Sturgeon offers to shelve independence vote in return for soft Brexit

    Today its,

    Scottish independence
    Sturgeon reiterates hard Brexit threat of Scottish independence vote
    First minister says UK government would be making huge mistake if it thought she was bluffing about staging referendum.

    TeamGB fourth estate is very massive and all powerful, so logic’s probably never been an issue.

  57. Auld Rock says:

    Hi HandandShrimp. And we don’t waste our money on their shite newspapers either, sorry The Yoon Propagandists.

    Auld Rock

  58. Dan Huil says:

    @shinty 8:32pm

    Marr on independence: ‘Which many in London believe is all but impossible’

    Good. They won’t try to stop Indyref2 in that case.

  59. Brian Powell says:

    Nicola Sturgeon, in the Marr interview, gave the clearest choices to Scots, a choice voters in England and Wales don’t have.

    We can without question be rid of Tory Governments with independence. People in England and Wales can only vote and wait to see what they get, and all that goes with that Government.

    They have voted for Tory Governments many, many times.

    We haven’t.

    If the choice of being rid of that is not taken after the choice being made crystal clear then the Tory Governments of all types and all that goes with them will be on the heads of Scots.

  60. yesindyref2 says:

    Wow, having so much fun on the Express, some people would pay a fortune for such entertainment, but this is FREE. Like taking candy from kids. Not that I would of course …

    And so simple, all I have to do is introduce some facts like 50% voted SNP in the General Election in Scotland compared to 14.9% Tories, who got just 36.9% in the UK.

    Or – the Yougov poll which gave 53% very or fairly satsified with Sturgeon, compared to 33% fairly or very dissatisfied.

    Or – turn an insult back on them.

    I haven’t had this much fun since 3 or 4 hours ago when I cut up the Christmas tree.

  61. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    UKIPs Paul (Eddie Hitler) Nuttal saying May must now just come out and say that the UK is leaving the single market so that ‘we’ can concentrate on Brexit and getting back control of immigration.

    Will May try to out UKIP UKIP again??

  62. Effijy says:

    Tory promises are never Kept? Not in my Lifetime!

    So much to write about their manifest of Lie to the Plebs
    and fill the pockets of the rich, and a nice little earner for the career politicians.

    From our referendum, the Tories Promised that a No vote would see them give Scotland Extensive new powers- LIE.

    Tories say a No Vote is the only way Scotland can stay in the EU. Whopping Great Tory LIE.

    3,000 Scottish Civil Servant jobs dependent on delivering a NO vote. Not only a Tory LIE as we lost the jobs, not through redundancy, just relocated to Croyden.
    Boris the Tory hater of the Scots announces that £1 spent in Croyden is better than a £1 spent in Scotland.

    Tories promise £1 Billion Capture Investment for Peterhead on a No vote. You guessed it, another Tory LIE.

    13 New War Ship order for the Clyde on a No Vote. Tory LIE

    Tories pledge to maintain £3 Billion investment in Scottish Renewable Energy on a No Vote.
    Waves of Tory LIES drifting in the wind.

    Tories pledge to reduce UK Debts and clear them by 2015, then they proposed by 2020, now they say that ISN’T possible and UK Government Debt at Record £1.7 Trillion and UK personal Debt now at an All Time High. Tory LIERS.

    Tories promised to maintain spending in Scottish Military-
    Tories cut, cut, and cut again on Military Spending. LIARS.

    Tories promise to protect the NHS.
    Just read the devastation they have reaped across England’s NHS. The Red Cross highlight the Humanitarian Crisis that is the Tory NHS. LIARS.

    I’m fed up writing about the Tory Lie Machine. It is much easier to say that they have Lied and Cheated Scotland at each and every turn.

    They have been rejected at every type of Scottish Election for the last 60 years, We never ever wanted them in power.

  63. crazycat says:

    @ Mungo at 8.42

    Yesterday and again just now when I checked, I get a warning, repeated 4 times, at the top of Derek Bateman’s site, but the article is available below this, apparently ok.

    The warning tells me there is a missing “argument 2 for Jetpack Custom CSS Enhancements”. This seems to be something to do with plug-ins, which I have globally blocked and just allow on particular sites where they are needed.

    Have you managed to obtain access?

  64. Mungo says:

    Yeh got it now Crazy cat ! Just had to scroll down a bit. Cheers mate. ??

  65. Mungo says:

    Yeh got it now Crazy cat ! Just had to scroll down a bit. Cheers mate. ??

  66. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Re Bella –

    Mike Small’s editorial decisions may have rubbed some of us up the wrong way at one time or another, but he’s a top dude who has worked his arse off for pro-indy and that should never ever be forgotten or belittled. No way he’s getting any kind of golden handshake for a decade of largely unpaid work, but he could’ve coined it in elsewhere during the same period doing all sorts of other stuff.

    Whatever he’s up to next, I hope he stays within the Indy movement and capitalises on his strengths – imo, they lie in the kind of broad ‘cultural’ debate he’s so good at. I’m pretty sure we haven’t seen the last of him.

  67. Xaracen says:

    Marr on independence: ‘Which many in London believe is all but impossible’

    Actually, that comment was quite clearly not about Scottish independence, it referred to Nicola Sturgeon’s hope of finding a way to keep Scotland in the single market, while the rUK left.

  68. Chick McGregor says:


    Always a silver lining. If there wasn’t a Tory Trough to attract and coalesce the greed layer in the recidivist parts of the gene pool we might never know who they were.

    Better still is the tendency to relocate to their Mecca, the Home Counties. That alone must surely benefit society elsewhere, in spirit if not materially.

  69. Stoker says:

    Brian Doonthetoon on 8 January, 2017 at 8:37 pm

    Brilliant post Brian, thank you, very useful for those of us trying to gather NHS material for our armoury’s. Having said that it would have been more suited to the previous thread for saving purposes.
    Effijy wrote on 8 January, 2017 at 9:51 pm:

    “I’m fed up writing about the Tory Lie Machine.”

    Well don’t stop because info put together like that in your post is very helpful to those of us living in Tory type areas.

  70. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 8 January, 2017 at 6:22 pm:

    “I think with the SIC conference coming up next week, the ScotGov Single Market paper out with JMC meetings coming up this month to probably (hopefully) totally reject it”.

    It may just be my perception, or even my wishful thinking, but I too get the gut feeling that a corner has just been turned.

    I read today Mrs May’s comment, “We can’t hold on to bits of the EU.” In response to being asked whether she prioritise controlling immigration or staying in the single market.

    Last week Westminster Establishment seemed set upon them dictating to the EU and picking and choosing what they would take or leave.

    Even although the general trend from both the EU and EC was yelling out loud and clear that in the first place no negotiation would be conducted until the formal UK request to leave had been proffered.

    Secondly the EU/EC message was that there would be no UK deals made over the market situation. The UK was being told they had no special privileges and each item would need to be dealt with individually and one source even said there was not even a chance the UK could buy a special deal of free marketing and negotiating per item could take decades.

    Then came the mini-bombshell of former UK’s EU ambassador resigning early and directly criticising May and the Government.

    I get the feeling that reality has come like cold shower to Mrs May and her cohorts.

    On the subject of websites, I had some very expensive software but, like yourself, I found I could get the exact results I wanted much quicker and with a lot less bloated HTML with just Notepad and Arachnophilia.

    ” … I still hand-code my own business websites though, just from habit and my own ready templates.”

    Exactly what I found. After you had decided on a web theme and made your own page templates it was easy to change the text, links and video or audio clips.

    This was the main thing I used Arachnophilia for. Not only did it check your code but you could use it to auto FTP and maintain the site. You could also use it to check the text of articles and if you changed any particular item that occurred across the whole website it auto-changed every occurrence and it is 100% free.

  71. Smallaxe says:

    Mr Peffers, I’ve been trying to catch up with you.

    Robert Peffers: (Must try Harder) ?

    The “debt”, to which I refer, sir, is the great respect owed to your knowledge of the technical and sovereignty subjects from which I have learned a great deal and also for the wisdom accrued by a gentleman of your advanced years.

    I agree with you when you say that we, here on Wings give and take freely from each other, positive or negatively.Our allegiance to the cause of Independence is also freely and gladly given.

    I thank you, sir, for correcting my error and I mean that sincerely, I have some habits in my writing that I am endeavouring to change.Grouse Beater, at one time, thought me to be of Irish descent by my use of the term “myself” when referring to “me”. Proud Cybernat once took offence, when I said, and I quote, “letters sent to yourself”, which he in retrospect quite rightly, thought that I was saying that he was sending letters to himself.

    From this epistle sir, yourself will see that myself can go off on a side-track as well, so I can. ?

    You have brightened up my Sunday Mr Peffers, I hope someday that we may meet and have a dram together. Peace Always

  72. Robert Peffers says:

    @ScottishPsyche says: 8 January, 2017 at 7:51 pm:

    “Hardly visited Bella since their divisive RISE strategy. I would be happy to help to fund it if Lesley Riddoch took over. I found Mike Small increasingly petty and patronising as time went on. The format and look is good though and he should be congratulated on that. It is unfortunate that the magazine became a victim of his prejudices.”

    That’s just about word for word what I was about to post, ScottishPsyche. I’ll endorse what you say.

  73. ben madigan says:

    here’s a nice little chess game to keep the spirits up of all Wingers!!

  74. Alan Johnston says:

    Just for info. As far as I can see this sh1t is based on a ThinkScotland diatribe by Murdo Fraser in MAY 2015 – 20 month old news!

  75. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mungo says: 8 January, 2017 at 8:46 pm:

    “Can I ask, is anyone else having trouble accessing Derek Bateman’s Blog ?
    All I’m getting is strange, jumbled text?”

    If you scroll down a bit you will get the site pages o/k. It seems like that bit at the start is just an error in the HTML Markup Language.

    Had the same sort of thing happen when I used to have my own fairly big website on the go. What happens is you get the HTML code along with the proper intended content instead of just the content.

  76. Dr Jim says:

    Apparently in Yoonworld mind Scotland can’t afford to be Independent because now that the oil price has “slumped” up to $58 the Scottish taxpayer would have to pay for the decommissioning of oil rigs and we couldn’t afford that

    That was from SKY news papers review silly and mindnumbingly stupid journalist woman although not Julia Hartley Jam woman for a change

    I’ll say it again, one brain cell between them and they take turns passing it around when they have to speak

    Where’s the button, give me the codes, does it need to be two people at the one time or can I just do it myself (body slumps) Aaohrgh!

  77. Still Positive. says:

    Dr. Jim @ 10.51

    Aye, there they go again – we cannae afford to be independent.

    And Andrew Marr peddling the lie about the euro at the end of interview with Nicola. Do these guys not know the internet exists and we can look up anything we want and have it verified from official sources.

    Douglas Alexander blamed the internet for the decline in Labour fortunes and look what happened to him – beaten by a 20-year-old student in the shape of Mhairi Black.

    Nicola means business – that is obvious. She spelled it out loud and clear and we must do so too, especially to the ‘soft Noes’.

  78. Stu Mac says:

    @Robert Peffers

    You’re being a bit silly there. Nothing is free – it has to be paid for out of taxes (National Insurance is a form of tax also).

    What counts is that taxation should be paid by all and that it should be progressive so that anyone can get medical treatment or education without having to pay large amounts of money on top of it.

    One can see that Tories and new Labour have indeed forced young people to get into massive debt for a university education and are aiming to create a situation where the NHS will be like USA Health Service where paying for serious operation can bankrupt a family.

    With so much happening now that they can be criticised for I don’t get this obsession you have with nit-picking over early Labour’s achievements or non-achievements. Labour stopped being the party of the likes of Keir Hardier decades ago.

  79. Still Positive. says:

    Good article from the Wee Ginger Dug on Theresa May : Quantum Squirrels. Sorry, don’t know how to post links.

  80. crazycat says:

    @ Still Positive

    (To get the full URL I had to click on the bit where it gives the number of comments. Having done that I just copied and pasted the address from the top. That may not be possible on all devices, I suppose. I only ever use a PC, where it does work.)

  81. heedtracker says:

    Apparently in Yoonworld mind Scotland can’t afford to be Independent because now that the oil price has “slumped” up to $58 the Scottish taxpayer would have to pay for the decommissioning of oil rigs and we couldn’t afford that”

    They are ranting away about £28bn North Sea decommissioning costs that have to and can only be met by teamGB. But facts are, all the offshore installations are privately owned businesses, all of them. UK gov sells off sector licences, provides some air sea rescue coast guard stuff and thats it.

    If big oil extracts say $2 trillion from not Scots oil and gas, in total by 2050,60, and when it really has all gone, why the fuck does the taxpayer have to pay for decommissioning? Oh wait its the UK and lots of seats on big oil co boards, banks etc, are there for the right sort of energy minister/Lord Trougher style.

  82. Brian doonthetoon @ 8.37 pm.
    Excellent, sir.
    Davidson knows of course that she is lying, and that this makes her even more devious and treacherous.
    Our Dead Tree Scrolls and the hacks who take their money for writing this anti Scottish bile are beneath contempt.
    They lie and damage Scotland without a scintilla of conscience.
    They are as culpable for the grinding poverty, premature deaths, and erosion of Scotland’s civic society as the grubby little Unionist freeloaders who clutter up the benches at Holyrood.
    All those deaths, all that state engineered poverty, privation, and degradation is down to this murky little clutter of Lord Haw Haws as much as it is to the pathetic bunch of Blue Red and Yellow Tories who skulk through our land, spreading misery as they go.
    As you say, what must our public servants, in Health, Law and Order, the Emergency services, Home Helps and so on think of these liars?

  83. Shinty says:

    Xaracen @ 10.16pm

    Actually, that comment was quite clearly not about Scottish independence, it referred to Nicola Sturgeon’s hope of finding a way to keep Scotland in the single market, while the rUK left.

    Sorry, have to disagree. Marr didn’t even draw breath between the quotes I mentioned. I split his comment for the simple reason it was two kinds of stupid within the same sentence.

    I don’t think there is anyone this side of ‘The Pecos’ who doesn’t know the SNP = iScotland. As for ‘London’ who cares, it’s not their call and they don’t have a vote.

    I’ll leave this here so you can have another peek.

  84. Chick McGregor says:

    Oil decommissioning costs are the responsibility of the field exploiting companies, specifically the last exploiter of the field. I looked into this some years back and actually checked a couple of UK government contracts to make sure they had not signed that norm away like they had done with their nonsense licensing and tax concessions (unlike the Norwegians). They, somewhat surprisingly,had not been quite that stupid.

    Decommissioning cost is a black herring.

  85. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    I thought about using Arachnophilia a lot of years ago, it was well recommended, but I stuck with just making mass edits to a load of sites (as I did very shortly after midnight on ne’erday!). Just a control freak I expect.

    Yes, I have hopes of the SIC as long as no egos try to dominate. Very encouraged Angela Constance is a speaker for the SNP. I voted for her and in fact her alone for the first depute leadership as she was well above the others for the idea of a wider YES. So hopefully she can help to bring it all together.

    It looks like YES2 might be becoming the umbrella for the grassroots YES, taking over from YES Scotland. I don’t know the players, but they seemed to do OK for the Glasgow Green thing I was at, and if the YES bikers supported it / them, that’s good enough for me I guess.

    We’ll see how it goes 🙂

  86. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m not one of the 800 attendees at the SIC by the way. Conferences and speeches not my thing, ants in the pants and a short attention span. Yawn.

  87. manandboy says:

    Toilet break, and read this. Wherever it may hold sway, in the UK or the EU, we must destroy the socially destructive virus known as neo-Liberalism.

  88. Cactus says:

    Aweright ben madigan @ 10:40pm earlier ~

    Cheers for yer article above bro, liked the pictured pieces.

    In chess, there be kings and queens, bishops, knights, rooks and many pawns.. but there are more of the many, than there are that of the few.

    The pawn is a powerful piece 🙂

  89. Cactus says:

    Read and extracted from ben’s article..

    PM Theresa May stated that the United Kingdom’s government would listen to and take account of the particular concerns of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

    “What I am very clear about is that, as we look into these negotiations, we will fully engage the Scottish government in the discussions that we have, in preparing what position the UK is going to take,”.

    Can you feel the love? It’s just like TM’s “people in Scotland” statement thing all over again.. it’s the people OF Scotland by the way.

    One is not a vehicle whom you will, thereafter, fully engage.
    Neither is one a combine harvester!
    SO, the obvious missing word above (in best practice politics) should be ‘with.’

    Should be (in best practice politics):

    “What I am very clear about is that, as we look into these negotiations, we will fully engage WITH the Scottish government in the discussions that we have, in preparing what position the UK is going to take,”.

    It’s all in the language.. anything less than ‘with’ is dictating.
    When they say ‘we’ they are referring to ‘themselves.’

    Lead the way Scotland and have a wonderful week, Wingers of ’17!

  90. ronnie anderson says:

    Just received this from a friend BEWARE PEOPLE.
    *Urgent Very Urgent …*

    Please pass around to your family and friends…!!!

    People have been receiving calls from
    any number starting from
    +371 number
    One ring & hang up.
    *If you call back,bthey can copy your contact list in 3sec
    If U have bank
    Credit card details on your phone,
    they can copy that too…

    +375 is from Belarus.
    +371 is code for Lativa.
    +381 Serbia
    +563- Valparaiso
    +370- Vilnius
    +255- Tanzania
    These calls may under ISIS
    *Don’t answer*
    or *Call back.*

    Also, Don’t Press
    #90 or #09
    on your Mobile when asked by any caller.
    It’s a New Trick of Terrorists to access your SIM card, Make calls at your expense and frame you as a criminal.
    Forward this message to as many friends as U can, to stop it.

  91. Dr Jim says:

    The rent a mob Brexiteers

    With every day that passes the finger pointing shouty aggressive No voters and Brexiters have merged into one gelatinous entity of angry bile like an alien thing from a B rated horror movie and our television screens are filled with reporters recycling newspaper opinions as facts, they’re even tweeting for non substantiated drivel to report as news whether it has any basis or not just in order to say stuff

    That’s not something we in Scotland are strangers to indeed the Scottish media have been doing this for quite some time
    but it is however concerning that this disease amongst “journalists” has sunk to this level of sub basement reporting on such a universal scale when so called reporters are provoking tweets in order to create a story which they themselves can step back from and claim someone else said it and it’s not their fault they’re only doing their job

    Free speech has always been important as indeed has proper investigative journalism but we’re not seeing that anymore, what we have is a pervasive propagandised bilious spewing of slime not even thinly disguised as journalism but a day by day imposition of this swamp mud on a completely unsuspecting not so well educated population and the more the BBC, SKY and Newspapers get away with this the further they’re pushing the boundaries

    So how far are Britains media prepared to go and why, and more importantly who’s behind it

  92. Nana says:

    Part own he says, bloody cheek
    Len McCluskey says Scotland should ‘part-own’ its offshore oil and gas industry

    Boris Johnson To Meet Donald Trump’s Team In New York In First UK Government Face

    How to use lots of words and say absolutely nothing, by Theresa May

  93. heedtracker says:

    Chick McGregor says:
    9 January, 2017 at 1:37 am
    Oil decommissioning costs are the responsibility of the field exploiting companies, specifically the last exploiter of the field

    But just listening to BBC r4 Today show explain the £24bn costs are on taxpayer and will take what income is still left in a dying oil biz. Its that nice John Humphries, so it must be true.

  94. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good morning,

    Thank you, Kettle’s on! Peace Always

  95. Macart says:

    Ooooo! Nice selection this morn Nana.

    Ta much. 🙂

  96. Nana says:


    Good morning, have a few more for later.

    PM wrong to hint we’ll quit single market and customs union

    Irish fishing sector fears choppier waters in Brexit’s wake

    Pound weakens on Theresa May’s Brexit remarks

    We had an early morning visit from the tv licence man yesterday. Asked one question “do you watch live tv” to which we replied No. Fellow said “fine we will visit again next year, Goodbye”
    Nice enough chap, looked like he had a lot of doors to knock, I mean surely they would not send him all the way up here just for one household!

  97. Nana says:

    Oops forgot this one. Worrying development this

  98. Ken500 says:

    Another load of nonsense about decommissioning. Oil sector tax is 40%. Since Jan 2016. It was 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £4Billion a year (£24Billion over six years) and thousands of jobs. The Oil tax pays for decommissioning or the tax is less and the companies pay. Swings and roundabout. The Oil & Gas sector has been completely mismanaged by Westminster liars. The revenues have been totally squandered. On illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

    People in England can’t get to work or get proper hospital treatment. The Tories couldn’t make a bigger mess. Brexit. A shambles.

  99. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: re MOD Police,

    We have had and still have these people in our area because of Chapelcross (power) Tritium factory. Since “Decommissioning” tank traps have also been installed at the gates. Peace Always

  100. Dr Jim says:

    If I had a pond in my back garden and found gold in it do we think Len McCluskey might let me part own it

    Ruth Davidson’s morning interview with Gary Robertson word for word, SNP Baad a lot, Independence Baad a lot
    What about your own party Ruth on Brexit says Gary
    Well Iv’e been very clear from the start that I’m for what I’m for until I’m not and I’ll be very clear on that when the time comes, other than that I’m no tellin ye but It’ll be good until the SNP make it Baad

    The end

  101. Ken500 says:

    London voted to remain in the EU. Including May, Hammond and Johnston Constituencies. Look what happened to Zac Goldsmith.

  102. Smallaxe says:

    A link from here helped “Flower of Scotland) yesterday:

    Can any of our Finance people, Scottie dog etc explain? Peace Always

  103. Famous15 says:

    On GMS Ruth Davidson the Tory said “we smashed that out of the park”

    Any idea anyone of the event she was referring?

  104. Graeme Menzies says:

    OT Now Kaye tries to smear SNP govt over the hike in drink drive stats.

    She seems to take the view that the figures wouldnt be so bad if the limit hadnt been lowered.

    Its all the SNPs fault that folk continue to drink and dtive.


  105. Nana says:

    Thanks for that, now I know what Tritium is

    every day a learning day on Wings!

    2 more links

    Phil Hogan: Now is the time to cut our ties with Brexiting Britain

    Brexit could leave fields of rotting crops

  106. Ken500 says:

    Len McCluskey supports Trident. Dumped on Scotland.

  107. Ken500 says:

    Scottish (based) Oil firms have contracts worldwide.

  108. Fred says:

    Thanks for the linx Nana. Sad about Bella, it just never had that community thing!

  109. heedtracker says:

    The Oil & Gas sector has been completely mismanaged by Westminster liars. The revenues have been totally squandered. On illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.”

    Its probably very hard to calculate where exactly not Scots oil and gas revenues have gone for the last 40 years or so but, a vast amount of it is now in the giant private pension fund industry, in the City. Almost all oil co’s BP, Shell are effectively owned by the private pension fund industry.

    Its not by chance either. Big oil co’s can return 8%, year in year out. The bigger they get, the bigger the returns. UK private pension fund industry is the primary funding behind middle and upper middle class retirees, actually retiring at 55, on £1,2,3 million pensions.

    They’re not baby boomers and this all down to Uk gov policy, red and blue tory. They also have a giant chunk of the buy to let market. Again, it’s all down to red and blue tory policy. In the UK, you really do get what you vote for, just ask socialist worker Gordon Brown.

  110. Smallaxe says:

    Peter Sarstedt (where do you go to my lovely) died yesterday at the age of 75.Brother of Eden Kane and Robin Sarstedt. Peace Always

  111. Brian Powell says:


    So after all the hysteria about 2 police officers openly carrying guns I wonder what the response will be if armed MOD police are questioning civilians?

    Not much I would guess.

  112. Famous15 says:

    My logic alarm sounded when I listened to the shock horror increase in people failing the breath test.

    This may or may not indicate an increase in those who are driving over the limit.

  113. manandboy says:

    In 2014, the Independence Referendum was about self-determination and ‘freedom’.
    But with the increased aggression of this neo-liberal Tory Government through even further austerity, together with Brexit plans for the depletion of a number of human rights in the UK, it is safe to say that before very long, Independence for Scotland will be for many, a matter of life and death.

    But that will be of no concern to this neo-liberal Tory Government, whose primary target is to secure Scotland’s incalculable wealth for the elite of the British Establishment.

    Contrary to the never-ending reports in the British media, Theresa May is not seeking a path through Brexit for the benefit of the whole of the UK. No, her mind is occupied merely with ensuring that the neo-liberal elite 1%, come through Brexit with their power and wealth intact.

    Please, Scottish No voters, wake up to the truth – Great Britain has changed irrevocably. Being British is no longer a choice, it is no longer an option for those seeking a national identity. In their unquenchable greed, the elite have destroyed what it means to be ‘British’. The Establishment, the 1%, have decreed that for now and in the future, there will only be the Super Rich – and the poor.

  114. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stu Mac says: 8 January, 2017 at 11:50 pm:

    “You’re being a bit silly there. Nothing is free – it has to be paid for out of taxes (National Insurance is a form of tax also). “

    Sigh! You best read what I commented again, Stu Mac.

    However I will sum it up again.

    I am making the point that the very first Labour Party MP, Kier Hardie got elected on a Manifesto ticket that included such things as free education. I actually make the point that what is touted as free is paid for by tax, (including the N.I. tax).

    I even state that the only ones who actually do get things for free are MPs, HOL lords and the royals. All of who do pay some tax BTW:

    So please don’t attempt to tell me I’m silly and then proceed to tell me the same things I posted in a slightly different form.

    As I was born before there was an NHS I’m well aware the NHS stamp is NOT put by to fund the NHS and that the service comes from general taxation.

    Furthermore, when I was working round the clock and earning roughly 10 times the national average for trades people, the government operated a graduated NHS stamp payment system.

    I was paying more in NHS Stamp payments in a year than other tradesmen at my place of employment paid in PAYE the same year. You can guess what I was paying as PAYE and BTW, I was paying also for my industrial Civil Service Pension.

    I am thus well aware that those, “Free”, things are paid for – which was the whole point. Kier Hardy got elected by standing on promises to get free education for all and, in spite of several Labour governments since then, we are still paying and waiting.

    He promised equality for women and we are still waiting and he promised independence for India and it took a long time for India to become independent and no thanks to a UK government.

    Not to mention that Hardie came to politics via the Scottish Crofter’s Party and stood for Scottish Home rule – and we are still waiting for that.

    That was the point – Labour, right from its founding fathers, has abandoned every promise they ever made, and are still making, and still breaking their promises today.

  115. sensibledave says:

    Morning All

    Regardless of one’s personal politics the two interviews (Ms Sturgeon and Ms May) over the weekend were very interesting I thought.

    Ms Sturgeon spoke powerfully and with authority I thought and made a number of interesting points – but, in reality, I thought she was speaking to her troops rather than send any message that she expects to be taken account of elsewhere.

    The argument that a majority of Scots voted to Remain is a powerful one but, in the end will carry no weight in the Brexit negotiations. Only if and when there is another indyref will that change and then, obviously, the problem would be resolved whatever the outcome.

    Ms May tried to continue to say little, but she was at least “revealing” in terms of the mindset she is applying. By this I mean she is trying to get people to understand that we are leaving the EU, all of it – and then looking to see what kind of deal we can do as a trading partner for after we have left the EU (as opposed to trying to hang on to bits of the EU as we leave).

    I think that subtle, but important, difference will gradually be understood by more people in the UK. She seemed to indicate (as I have indicated here in previous installments of my teachings) that she believes she can come up with a good outcome on the trade front.

    The £ Sterling took another jolt this morning on the markets which mean that we have, effectively, had a 15% “devaluation” since EUref. With WTO tariffs averaging around 4% (I believe), our exporters will still be way ahead of the game – although clearly exporters to the UK are going to find it harder and it will affect inflation to a degree.

    In this respect therefore, you would have to say that our negotiating team have the overall potential upper hand when it comes to the negotiation of a new trade deal (or not) with the EU.

  116. galamcennalath says:

    Breaking news from Reuters….

    “She [May] hasn’t ruled anything in or out – she’s said she wants the best possible deal for trading with and operating within the single market,” the spokeswoman said.

    So, last night on Sky May implies she doesn’t want to keep bit of the EU.

    The pound drops overnight to its lowest since 1983.

    This morning May backtracks via a spokeswoman saying “operating within the single market”.

    Pathetic, is all I can say.

  117. heedtracker says:

    sensibledave says:
    9 January, 2017 at 10:12 am
    Morning All

    Evening sensible. Thanks for that display of tory England wishful thinking. Fair play to you sensible. Only a toryboy can watch sterling junked and pretend they like it. UKOK propaganda is ridiculous and gets worse year after year.

    Tory nutters running teamGN, junk sterling, giant debt, Rolling strikes, crippled NHS, out of the EU, rule Britnatia tub thumping, its like the 70’s all over again sensible, without the greatest music scene ever.

  118. Glamaig says:

    ‘The pound drops overnight to its lowest since 1983.

    This morning May backtracks via a spokeswoman saying “operating within the single market”.’

    I wonder sometimes if politicians just say random stuff knowing it will cause a movement in markets, and anybody in the know can make a profit.

  119. Graeme Menzies says:


    You got to laugh. A very small number of highly trained Authorised Firearms Police Scotland officers wear sidearms whilst going about their legitimate business and get pelters from Unionist Politicians and their Media friends when they turn up at routine incidents to provide extra “manpower” and assist unarmed Police, instead of just driving around waiting for a firearms incident to happen.

    Then you have armed MOD Police (Westminster run)”gate and fence guards” patrolling public areas away from military installations and stopping motorists on public roads and proposing to assist Police Scotland in the community (without Police Scotland or Scots Govt authority) and where are the howls of outrage from the Unionist parties?


    So how is a guy who patrols a fence with a gun or stands at a gate and asks for passes, going to deal with angry, volatile drunk folk on a high street, or some enraged, drunk wife beater wanting to fight them?

  120. K1 says:

    Glamaig? Do you have a link to:

    ‘This morning May backtracks via a spokeswoman saying “operating within the single market”.’


  121. Glamaig says:

    @K1 sorry should have said I was referring to galamcennelath at 10:15, may be referring to this?

  122. Glamaig says:

    in the wake of two contradictory announcements May also says her strategy is not muddled

  123. sensibledave says:

    Heedy 10.20

    You wrote “Evening (?) sensible. Thanks for that display of tory England wishful thinking. Fair play to you sensible. Only a toryboy can watch sterling junked and pretend they like it. UKOK propaganda is ridiculous and gets worse year after year.

    I really wasn’t trying to promote any propaganda or argue for, or against, Tory policy. I am not arguing that a falling currency is a good, or a bad, thing or whether it is desirable or not.

    I was commenting on the reality of the situation. Our currency has fallen in value by (over) 15% now. That presents both problems and opportunities.

    The cost of our imports will go up – if we keep buying the same unit level of imported items. That will hurt people in terms of the cost of many items that we might want to buy. It may also make them less desirable compared to alternatives and therefore reduce, in terms of units, the number of those items that we buy in the UK. As examples, we may buy a Jaguar, a land Rover, or a mini, or a nissan or ford or vauxhall (that is predominantly manufactured in the UK and less affected by the currency rates) – than a Merc, VW, Audi, Seat, Citroen or Peugot (etc). We may buy less Champagne (by degree (and by the way I don’t buy champagne personally!)). This affects French exports but may help (even further) Italian exports of Prosecco instead as a more affordable option. And so on.

    Rather than just keep shouting all the Toryboy stuff all the time Heedy, why dont you actually try and think things through. None of us know how these talks are going to develop or, ultimately, where, or at what point the EU’s negotiators are going to dig their heels in.

    However, WTO rules are probably our “worst case” position and, compared to pre-EU Referendum times, our exporters are in a much better position than they were – and EU exporters to the UK are experiencing much tougher times relatively.

    If this situation continues then, on negotiating a trade deal, can you not see that we have a more than reasonable hand? Or is it that you don’t actually think for yourself and you so desperately need everything to go badly, that you are blind to any other potential outcome?

    Again, as someone who didn’t vote Leave personally, I am trying to look on the bright side and look for the upside.

    If you work on the basis that your hopes for early Scottish Independence are boosted by, or reliant upon, a “hard” Brexit” which then decimates the UK economy – then, you may well be sorely disappointed – again.

    Think Heedy, think! Get your head out of your backside and try to work this stuff out for yourself.

    Ms Sturgeon looks like she has assumed that there will not be a soft Brexit and is therefore strategising on the basis of the hard Brexit she accepts is most likely.

    Do you not agree with her?

  124. galamcennalath says:


    Yes, that was the Reuters release I was referring to. It was so short I didn’t think the article said more than I quoted, so no link. I should have linked 🙁 … mustn’t stoop to msm levels.

    May going out of her way to muddy the waters even more probably just to protect pound! Someday soon, she will have to make some sort of definite statement!

  125. gus1940 says:

    Is it not the case that the threat that we would lose our European Citizenship if/when The UK leaves The EU not one of the most powerful weapons in our armoury?

    Surely we should make more use of this .

    On another tack, as I have been banned form The Scotsman for over 18 months could somebody point out to them that the clock they use to display the time on their Comments Section is still on BST.

  126. Andrew Mclean says:

    Sensitive Dave,

    Can you explain to an importer into Europe how they are supposed to survive once we leave the free trade area, and prior to a new deal being arranged as you propose as T May’s stratagem?

    This ignorance is displayed repeatedly on your masters voice, without being challenged, the reason it will take two years approx is so that when we finally leave in say 2019 the new arrangement will be in place.

    If we were to leave the European Union before the new deals, or route to market is agreed the uk would soon be bankrupt by sterling would collapse, making pensions and investments worthless, inflation would be astronomical, basically as a suggestion it’s the worst decision a country could make.

    So not very sensible is it David, actually T May made no such statement, the only one to have any idea how to proceed is our own blessed First Minister, who has repeatedly shown she has more political acumen in her little finger than the entire Westminster cabinet.

  127. gus1940 says:

    It will be interesting to seed if there is any mention on this morning’s Daily Politics of yesterday’s interviews of Nicola and Maggie May.

    If no mention, why no mention other than the fact that Nicola gave a top notch performance compared with May’s load of woffle.

  128. Jack Murphy says:

    My Thought for the Day:-
    Tory NHS England in Humanitarian meltdown.
    “Humanitarian” to quote the Red Cross from last week.

    Labour controlled London in Tube meltdown when even the precious BBC can’t get their radio guests into the hallowed Broadcasting House studio!

  129. sensibledave says:

    Andrew Mclean 11:25 am
    Sensitive Dave,

    You wrote “Can you explain to an importer into Europe how they are supposed to survive once we leave the free trade area, and prior to a new deal being arranged as you propose as T May’s stratagem?”

    Answer …. we revert to WTO rules. I’m not arguing for that Andrew, I am answering your question. At the same time, we have to ask oursevesl, how will, for instance, Mercedes’ finances go if they suddenly find a 10% tariff on the cost of Mercedes cars sold in the UK – their biggest export market in the world?

    This ignorance is displayed repeatedly on your masters voice, without being challenged, the reason it will take two years approx is so that when we finally leave in say 2019 the new arrangement will be in place.

    If we were to leave the European Union before the new deals, or route to market is agreed the uk would soon be bankrupt by sterling would collapse, making pensions and investments worthless, inflation would be astronomical, basically as a suggestion it’s the worst decision a country could make.

    ….. see above

    So not very sensible is it David, actually T May made no such statement, the only one to have any idea how to proceed is our own blessed First Minister, who has repeatedly shown she has more political acumen in her little finger than the entire Westminster cabinet.

    You may well be right Andrew (only time will tell) but you seem to to work on the basis that we are going to go for some sort of soft Brexit – there is no evidence, whatsoever, that is the case – quite the reverse.

    You and I may wish it was – but it isn’t.

    Your reaction is to therefore assume, and accept, the worst. I don’t.

  130. Chick McGregor says:


    Decomissioning rules and regulations are set by OSPAR and the UK along with every other Atlantic seaboard European country is a signatory to that.

    Here is the most salient paragraph:

    “The persons who own an installation
    or pipeline at the time of its
    decommissioning will normally remain
    the owners of any residues (ie any
    remaining abandoned facilities, fluids or
    pollutants). Any residual liability remains
    the owner’s in perpetuity”

    It does go on to say that in the case of field ownership being changed the decommissioning cost may be wholly left with the original owner or partly shared between them by contractual agreement at the time of ownership change but total liability remains underwritten by the owners.

    In the vast majority of instances (so far) all the liability has transferred to the new owner.

    If the new owner defaults, then decommissioning liability falls back on to the original licence holder.

  131. Albert Herring says:

    Just scroll past the garbage.

  132. Andrew McLean says:

    Sensible Dave
    So leave and hope for WTO, like this ?
    Little spanner in that is goods imported into the EU have to meet EU manufacturing standards, that may not be to big a problem, but when you have arch Brexit advocate Dyson wanting to scrap electrical standards so he can use less efficient motors, he then can’t export from china where he manufactures into the EU. As for food sustainability and food standards, that is a minefield. so simple saying WTO is nonsense.
    “Mercedes’ finances go if they suddenly find a 10% tariff on the cost of Mercedes cars sold in the UK” David why would the UK put on a tariff? This car manufacturing argument by those supporting Brexit, has always struck me as strange, 60% of all car parts used in the assembly of cars is imported from the EU into the UK, the Metal is manufactured predominantly in China, the assembly plants are, with one or two small exceptions either Japanese, American or EU owned. they don’t give a dam where they assemble them, if it costs more then they move.
    As for the claim “the biggest export market in the world” typical language to support Brexit, actually Germany only export % 14 into the UK and it’s a stagnant market.
    Ever moved an assembly plant David, I have, its relatively easy. That is why the backroom deal with Nissan was agreed so soon.
    As for the smoke and mirrors language, hard soft read white and blue, that talk is for the children David, there is no such thing, it doesn’t exist, it’s a politicians silly game, just talk, empty words for the gullible, sound bite for the lack of information age that can’t think more than 140 characters at any given time.
    What Brexit is, or rather was, is not the judgment of today but for future generations, only they can say what the final summation will be.
    Please up your game David, lest I suspect like many others, that you troll.

  133. Liz g says:

    Graham Menzies @ 10.35 & Brian
    I also think it is outrageous that the MOD are patrolling on civilian streets in Scotland.
    I mean we don’t come under military law ?
    What exactly are our right’s here?
    This I think is particularly concerning for lone female driver’s.
    Generally the advice is…if you are not sure…Don’t Stop..just indicate you will follow to the nearest police station.
    So now there is the potential for the Armed Terrorist Hunting Military Trained Police to be dealing with a car that won’t stop.
    That’s not going to go well!!!
    Or are we to change the advice….from don’t stop if you are not sure.
    To stop for anyone in case the shoot,because if you are not a terrorist why wouldn’t you stop?

  134. sensibledave says:

    Andrew McLean 12.31

    Please, for once Andrew, why don’t you try reading what I have written – rather than just making stuff up?

    You asked what happens if we don’t succeed in negotiating a trading deal for Post Brexit.

    I answered your question in the only way that anyone could possibly answer!!! If we don’t have a deal – then, obviously, we don’t have a deal – so we have no alternative than revert to WTO rules.

    You then take my entirely logical answer and turn it into being a desired policy!

    The stuff you responded to concerning Mercedes (as the example) demonstrates exactly the reasons that there is likely to be some sort of trading deal done in my view (rather than reverting to WTO). Unless a trade deal is agreed – then both parties will suffer the fallout. So why wouldn’t the parties agree to a deal? You seem to be assuming that the EU can afford to refuse a deal as a “punishment” to the UK and a “warning” to others.

    I have merely shown you what WTO might look like and the reality is that is it is worse for the EU than for the UK IMHO.

    I think you are doing that classic thing of shooting the messenger. You have convinced yourself (or have been convinced (fooled) by others) that the UK will go into meltdown economically and the EU will be untouched by a hard Brexit – and that, Andrew, is simply not the case.

  135. Dan Huil says:

    Are the MOD police called Auxiliaries?

  136. Andrew McLean says:

    Liz GIs it the MOD police (MDP), or the the royal military police (RMP)? or any of the other police forces, like the civilian nuclear police.

    The MDP are real police officers with the power of arrest in Scotland, and regularly patrol well away from MOD establishments, including street patrol It is sometimes difficult to distinguish them from the National force.

    The MDP are governed by NPIA and ACPO and are regulated by PACE. They will be in uniform and drive marked cars, if you are ordered to stop by a fully marked car with Claxton and lights flashing then the advice is to stop, though do not open your door and contact the police immediately if you have any concerns if able.

    If it’s an unmarked car then it is more than likely not to be the MDP, the police driver would reasonably expect you were assured they were actual police before you stop, especially if you were a lone female. And would not force you to a hard stop, but follow you till a marked car arrived.

    The most recent publication available publicly is Home Office Circular 028/2008 A Protocol Between Police Forces and The Ministry of Defence Police.

  137. Andrew McLean says:


    “Please, for once Andrew, why don’t you try reading what I have written – rather than just making stuff up?

    I did, you didn’t. And did I ever say the EU would be untouched?

    You just assumed and made up to fit what you believe.

    But that is my point, and to be honest, I think yours too, this is a mess, just how big a mess is yet to be seen. Your opinion is as ignorant as mine, both sides sold a lie, both sides woke up the morning after and were in shock, that shock hasn’t abated.

    The UK is the kid that was warned about playing with fire, now we soon find out how badly we got burned.

    Innovative jam, and Indian manufacturing standards won’t help us now.

  138. Chick McGregor says:


    Had a scour around on Google and found this authoritative article from IHL magazine on decommissioning as was the position in 2012.

    It should be noted that some cost will incur to the UK exchequer through decommissioning cost if and when carried out by the oil companies through tax relief and in some cases tax refunds may also be due because of past tax paid on artificially high profits (i.e. no deferral against tax for future commissioning cost was allowed).

    It could get as high as 1 billion per year ostensible loss to the exchequer over the decommissioning period. However, that amount will be offset by GDP and tax thereon generated by the decommissioning activity itself.

    An over all net positive exchequer revenue over the period is more than likely.

    However exact decommissioning costs are guesstimates as is the proportion of decommissioning economic activity the UK procures.

  139. Socrates MacSporran says:

    sensible dave

    If you are going to make statements in support of your stance, make sure they are correct.

    You repeatedly state that the UK is Mercedes’ biggest export market in the world. This is pure crap.

    I went onto the Daimler Benz website; the last available annual figures quoted showed sales in the UK of 127,500 units. In the same year, exports to the USA totalled over 344,000 units. UK was only the fifth-biggest market.

    When it came to MB trucks, the UK wasn’t in the top ten export markets.

    Facts are chiels that wanna ding sensible; thus, if one of the key facts you keep quoting is so-far out, how many more of your facts are made-up?

  140. Brian Powell says:

    Andrew McLean

    Apart from patrolling the perimeters of nuclear establishments what are they doing in civilian areas I wonder.

    And if they have always done it why no ‘outrage’ when so much was made of of a few police carrying arms, stinks of political point scoring.

  141. Andrew McLean says:

    Political reality meets Political posturing

    Well I suppose America could market it as a tourist attraction the rival China’s Great Wall.

    I wounder if Donald has a wall manufacturing company.

    PS the magazine MJ was a gift subscription 30 years ago from an American friend, good to see it still about.

  142. Chick McGregor says:

    I wonder if Wall St has started building a wall yet? 🙂

  143. sensibledave says:

    Socrates MacSporran @ 1.40

    You are are right to correct me – indeed I was wrong.

    I should have pointed out that almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars sold in Britain, come from Germany, making the British island the biggest export destination for German car producers. It is around a fifth of the total number the industry exports worldwide, according to the German car association, VDA.

    ““We definitely expect negative consequences for the GDP. This means both changes on the sales market and higher export costs for products for the UK,” said August Joas, a partner at the Global Automotive and Manufacturing Practice with the consultancy Oliver Wyman in Munich.”

    So go on Socrates, convince me why this one element, that we have chosen to focus upon, (i.e. the current export market of 810,00 cars for Germany) is of no consequence to Germany in our Brexit negotiations.

    Only someone who was delusional, or a very bad negotiator could possible think that.

  144. galamcennalath says:

    Piling confusion on confusion. Now Ruth Davidson in the Hootsmon appears to be saying that the Scottish Government compromise solution is actually the same position as May et al!

    Ruth Davidson has accused Nicola Sturgeon of trying to “exacerbate” differences between the UK and Scottish governments over access to the single market after Brexit.

    The Scottish Conservative leader said she wanted the UK to have the “largest amount of access” to the single market, a position she said she shared with Prime Minister Theresa May.

    The “largest amount” would be full membership of the single market, but then again, who knows what goes on in a Tory mind. I’m fairly certain that isn’t what May et al actually have in mind.

  145. Lochside says:

    o/t sad news that Bella Caledonia is apparently no more. Even more unfortunate is the opportunities for the jackals of the colonial media to capitalise on its sudden demise with gloating.

  146. Breastplate says:

    I think it’s rather hypocritical of you to accuse someone of not answering your question when I have asked the same question time and time again and have yet to receive an answer.
    You belittle yourself and your arguments with evasion and that suits me fine.

    Should Scotland be an independent country?

    Evade away.

  147. Liz g says:

    Andrew McLean @ 1.17
    Thanks for your reply about the MOD police.
    It was a bit reassuring ,but I am white and speak fluent Scot’s English.

    I suppose the real concern is that the Westminster government may be putting the logistics in place to try to hang on to that base and that area after we leave.

    And while it’s very tempting to answer that we will just put the rent up if the oil price fall’s (apprantly there is no number too high for their Neuks) it would be, I think, unrealistic to let the British not only keep any bases here but that one in particular for all sorts of reasons,but Westminster seem to be specialist’s at pie in the sky expectations right now.

    Those whom the God’s would destroy…..ect

  148. Andrew McLean says:


    So your argument is one for the negotiators,

    Germany may push for a deal to protect the export market accounting for 14% of its manufacturing, but also it would want to control car imports that compete on their domestic market. we export 77.3% of all cars manufactured and of those 57.5% is into the EU. Why would they sacrifice their much larger domestic market to allow for unfettered imports from the UK?

    Go on sensible on this one area, who has the better hand, or more to lose?

    In any case the agreement would need to be approved by the UK and 20 of the 27 remaining member states. The European Parliament would also need to approve the deal so what would the French think of a deal that supported just German imports or exports to the possible determent to Peugeot or Renault ?

  149. galamcennalath says:

    Liz g says:

    that base

    There are two bases, Coulport and Faslane, associated with Trident and each does a separate job.

    Coulport is where the nuclear arsenal is stored. I cannot imagine it could in any way be internationally legal for one country to store its entire arsenal of nukes on another country’s soil. It seems to me that iScotland would be unlikely to continue to house the entire iEngland WMD collection. It must be a situation which breaches international law and treaties, surely?

    Faslane is where submarines are based and operate from. That is a substantially different issue IMO. Nuclear armed vessels do dock in, or operate from, other countries.

  150. Glamaig says:

    Not sure how much Brexit negotiation there will actually be? Apart from the UK pleading and begging. So all the guff about ‘deals’ is neither here nor there.

    UK surely will get exactly the deal that the EU decides, or it will remain a member.

    EU might not want UK to be a basket case, as it might not be in their interests, but they will definitely want the UK to be considerably worse off to deter other leavers.

  151. Liz g says:

    Galamcennalath @ 2.44
    I had thought it was all called HM… Something..Clyde,anyhoo.

    While I think you are right about one country not storing anothers Neuks….That’s actually my concern.

    To keep the Bases then it might have to be designated as English Territory (kind of like Gibraltar) I think if we ever conceded to that we would never get them out.
    They would see it as a territory to defend,and may even try to put some sort of US presence there to shore up their claim.

    Jist incase ye wur wondering… I don’t trust them a bit.
    They have to go..

  152. Andrew McLean says:


    “I cannot imagine it could in any way be internationally legal for one country to store its entire arsenal of nukes on another country’s soil.”

    The UK has no nuclear weapons, we lease them from America.

  153. Capella says:

    I know Stu doesn’t approve of posting poetry but I thought this was apt. Here is Bruce Naughton’s contribution to the Baby Box controversy. A letter to the National:

    “RUTH Davidsom has asked the Makar for a poem for the Baby Box reflecting Tory values.

    Here it is:

    F*** off ye wee tyke
    Ye wee scrounging bastird
    Haund oot for a haund oot
    And yir jist o’er the bloody door
    Hard working families bawbees
    Buying a bairns box o’ baubles
    Something fir nothing
    Johann Lamont wis richt

    Get tae f***, ya wee shite
    The hale wurld despises ye
    Lying in yir “Free” box
    In Gorbals, Muirhouse, Fintry or Coatbrig
    Waiting for yir free nursery, education, healthcare
    When we could be spendin’ it aa
    On Trident, HS2 and Buck Hoose
    I never kent hatred like this,”

    Scroll to end of page

  154. galamcennalath says:

    Andrew McLean says:

    The UK has no nuclear weapons, we lease them from America.

    My understanding (I may be wrong) is that the missiles are leased but the warheads are owned.

    Given American involvement, they have all the storage and handling facilities the iEnglish navy needs at Kings Bay, Georgia where the US submarines operate from. With their new, still to be negotiated, special relationship I’m sure they can work something out.

  155. sensibledave says:


    You wrote: “Should Scotland be an independent country?

    I have answered you on numerous occasions but you seem to think I am evading! So one last try …

    1. Yes. If a majority of its citizens vote to leave

    2. No if they dont

    Are you clear?

  156. Socrates MacSporran says:

    sensible dave

    Subtle wee skip change of step there Dave. I pull you up for quoting wrong Daimler Benz figures, you segway into total German car sales.

    Speaking as a very happy owner/driver of a Mercedes Benz S Class, price is just one small part of the total overall thinking which went into my purchase.

    An S Class is a prestige car; even if it was to suddenly cost a bit more, because of import duties – I would still rather have my S Class than a comparable Jaguar, or Range Rover, because it is a better car.

    I would reckon owners/potential buyers of BMWs or Audis and some of the top of the range VWs would feel the same.

    Better build quality, reliability, finish, and service from the dealer network just might be worth the wee bit extra.

    Conversely, Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley or Rolls Royce owners in Europe just might feel the same, should duty payable rise after Brexit.

  157. What rank are you sensibledave?

  158. Liz g says:

    Galamcennalath @ 3.11
    Aye ye can say that again.
    As long as they are stopped from driving them past ma hoose and thru ma Country.
    And as soon as possible.
    I am happy to leave the English and the Americans to work out between them who owns what and where to stick them.

    As for letting any Government who claimed that they would indeed actually fire the things dock those sub in Scotland…Not if I have anything to say about it!

    I certainly would campaign that Coleport be put beyond Westminster’s use on the day of Independence, I understand that they need time to organise accommodation for their sub’s for a bit…But coupling and uncoupling the warheads in this country is a danger to Scotland that the Scottish government should be obliged to put a stop to immediately!

    Also since they have known for a few year’s now that they might have to shift their sub’s, I don’t think that Holyrood should be all that accommodating with the amount of time to give them to get them gone either.

  159. Proud Cybernat says:

    1. Yes. If a majority of its citizens vote to leave

    2. No if they dont

    In other words, you don’t give a hee-haw one way or t’other (aye–sure). You’ll leave it to Scots to decide what we want and you are happy with whatever we decide (aye–sniggers).

    So why the hell are you stomping around an Indy web site with your arse hingin’ oot yer troosers? (more sniggering).


  160. Andrew McLean says:

    To get back to politics.

    Ruth Davidson on your masters voice when saying that the SNP didn’t respect the 2014 referendum agreement as set out in the white paper “Edinburgh Agreement”.

    Garry asked her about the commitment to hold another one in the SNP manifesto, she answered thus.

    “what was also in the white paper was an acceptance that there could very well be a referendum on Brexit er (garbled) on the EU. ”

    Ok, where did it say that Ruth?

    On the other hand we have this Ruth

    Ruth every day you let yourself down, so try and remember this little ditty.

    Ruth Ruth tell the truth, Ruth Ruth tell the truth!

    Come on Ruth you’re better that that surely.

  161. davidb says:

    Per trade talks above 🙂

    The UK is the second largest net importer after the USA. So the chances are it will continue to be a massive net importer until the currency tanks so much it cannot pay for the imports – kind of like the bankrupt IMF situation Chancellor Healey had to deal with before Scottish oil bailed them out.

    The cars which the Germans export are predominately high value ones. Is the price of a Mercedes or a BMW or an Audi so critical in the purchase decision? VW may be affected perhaps by tariffs, but BMW and Daimler Benz won’t. The UK similarly exports mostly quite high value vehicles so I doubt a couple of Euros on a Range Rover is going to stop rich folks in Scandinavia driving them.

    Its the car parts businesses that will see the big impact. And the people who make cars in the UK but import stuff from all over the EU are going to pay a tax to buy the bits and another to sell their cars? And vice versa? Its likely they will be keener on keeping continental plants around than UK ones. Some low value cars are still made in the UK too – at Vauxhaul for instance. But the Ford engine plants are in the UK for all of their EU production. The parts businesses are fairly integrated across the whole EU. Most of the makers are huge multinationals.

    Then there’s French wine, Perfumes, Italian leather bags, and the whole range of high end goods the other members export to the UK. Is a Gucci bag price sensitive?

    The “they won’t hump us they need us” argument would be fine if a car was a car and a bottle of wine from Chile was as nice as a bottle of Chambertin. But its not that simple. The UK don’t make things any more. They import everything. Their exports as a share of GDP are particularly low. The imposition of trade tariffs will disproportionately affect the UK.

    And lastly, free trade areas are not just about duty paid. They are about the standards used. The UK has decided it doesn’t want any say in the standards. So such manufacturers as we have will get no input into where a Stornoway Black pudding can only be made, or the size and shape of a whisky bottle sold in the EU has to be. But they will have to comply with the EU’s rules to sell in their home market. Its probably the daftest idea of them all.

    There is an “upside”. When the economy collapses the immigration figures will get better. Because all the brightest and best will emigrate.

  162. Andrew McLean says:

    Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley and Rolls Royce are not UK owned marques, nothing says they have to be assembled in the UK.

  163. sensibledave says:


    You wrote “So your agrgument is one for the negotiators.

    Germany may push for a deal to protect the export market accounting for 14% of its manufacturing, but also it would want to control car imports that compete on their domestic market. we export 77.3% of all cars manufactured and of those 57.5% is into the EU. Why would they sacrifice their much larger domestic market to allow for unfettered imports from the UK?

    Go on sensible on this one area, who has the better hand, or more to lose?”

    My response is …. we both have a lot to lose if we dont do a deal. If we dont do a deal then WTO kicks in. If WTO kicks in then it is because the EU no longer has a trade deal with one of the world’s biggest markets that lies 20 miles from its coast and its exports to the UK and therefore the EU’s economy are at risk – and vice versa

    Why? Just to punish a friendly ally that doesn’t want to be in its club anymore – regardless of the costs to itself?


    Frankly speaking, if that is the measure of the morals and ethics of the EU – then we are best off out.

    You wrote: “In any case the agreement would need to be approved by the UK and 20 of the 27 remaining member states. The European Parliament would also need to approve the deal so what would the French think of a deal that supported just German imports or exports to the possible determent to Peugeot or Renault ?”

    … that sums up many of the points Andrew. The “main” EU countries like Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy – all have economies where the UK is a major customer and we are important to them – and vice versa.

    All the more reasons why those countries need to ensure that an amicable deal is done.

  164. gus1940 says:

    Today’s blats without exception plus The BBC are shouting from the rooftops headlines along the lines of ‘Sturgeon Rules out Indyref in 2017’.

    This is obviously an attempt to mislead readers into thinking that this is some great reversal of policy and surrender on the part of The SNP and Scottish Government.

    Unless my memory fails me I cannot recall there ever having been any proposal by The SNP that there should be a Referendum in 2017.

    What I find scary is the signs of some sinister guiding hand suggesting a co-ordinated agenda to be followed by the near universal union supporting media.

  165. Andrew McLean says:


    Please read this before you make the “WTO rules kick in” statement again.

    But I take it you agree with me now that there is no such thing as brexit is brexit, hard soft, red white and blue brexit.

    What we will have is a series of long drawn out negotiations on a thousand and one issues with countries who’s self preservation will be their starting point, politically as well as financial.

    As for amicable, I am sure it will be, but to who’s benefit? what will be sacrificed to ensure access to the free market?

    There may be a reason the backtracking on fishing being devolved to Scotland has started. Westminster wouldn’t sell Scotland’s fishermen out to protect the financial passport for the London City would it?

    But to conclude, I trust Nicola to ensure ALL of Scotland’s interests are protected, you unfortunately have T May.

    Good luck with that.

  166. scotspine says:

    @ Andew

    MOD Police may well be governed by PACE 1984 and ACPO, But PACE is relevant ONLY in England and Wales and ACPO (England and Wales) is different from ACPOS (Scotland).

    You cant arrest or search anyone in Scotland using PACE.

  167. Stu Mac says:

    @Ronnie Anderson

  168. scotspine says:

    @ Andrew

    I add a caveat that if someone is arrested WITHIN a military base, English Law MAY apply.

  169. Andrew McLean says:


    shame on you, just because of a connection with the Diplomatic Corps, dint make you suspect,Lets see where that leads!
    oh, no!
    Oh, yes!


  170. Andrew McLean says:


    Also the Ministry of Defence Police Act 1987, as amended by the Anti-Terrorist Crime & Security Act 2001. MOD police can arrest anywhere in the UK, they use PACE, are regulated by PACE, they are attested officers of the law.

  171. Stu Mac says:

    @Robert Peffers

    I hardly think Hardie and his colleagues meant they were going to pay for it all out of their own pockets. They surely meant free at the point of access regardless of how much you paid in taxes. That is (for instance) removing the fear of paying large amounts they couldn’t afford to provide medical care for your family. It’s just playing semantics to suggest folk would think anything else was meant.

    AS I said, we all know how the old Labour party became corrupt and useless so what’s the point of trying to do down men like Hardie (or those that introduced the National Health Service) who did their best, within limitations, to genuinely try to help the population?

  172. Smallaxe says:

    liz g: Andrew McLean et al: MOD/MDP

    Who they are and who employs them I do not know, However, I do know that since the 1960s they have been using marked and unmarked vehicles in and around Chapelcross.Unmarked vehicles can vary but I have noticed them often using small grey vans.

    I also know that they are often plain clothed.I have a very close friend who used to do a very very small amount of poaching in that area and it was in his interests to keep an eye out for them.Especially when it was necessary to slip underneath the protective fencing, to procure hares for the jugging of. Peace Always

  173. Andrew McLean says:

    Small axe

    The market for second hand small grey vans in Galloway has just collapsed!

  174. galamcennalath says:

    Will the brexnutters ignore advice from Merkel, now?

    Angela Merkel has stepped up pressure on Theresa May over Brexit by saying that the European Union must consider limiting UK access to the single market if it fails to accept free movement of EU citizens.

    The German chancellor repeated her mantra that there must be no negotiations based on “cherry picking” of the Union’s four freedoms of movement for capital, goods, services and people.

    The Tories need to stop believing there own fairy tales and face reality.

  175. Breeks says:

    @ Andrew MacLean 4:11

    It’s been posted before, but very little has changed, and it all seems as relevant now as it did when first read.

    There are two reasons why Theresa May doesn’t want to reveal too much about her negotiating hand. First, there is no negotiating hand, because there is no negotiation with Europe happening before Article 50 is triggered. Paradoxically, those circumstances do not apply to Nicola’s preambles with Europe, because while these may be unilateral negotiations, they are not with non member states, and thus quite legal. Quite frankly, for Mrs May, I rather suspect there will be precious little negotiation with the EU after Article 50 has been triggered, and whatever negotiations do take place, the U.K. is in no position to demand anything, and it seems the EU seems ready to concede very little indeed.

    Second, the U.K. must keep it’s preliminary post Brexit Trade Deals with Turkey and Argentina under wraps because until Article 50 is triggered, such negotiations are illegal. I suspect that’s something Theresa May has been told by China, Canada, USA, EFTA, India, Australia and NewZealand, and even Turkey too I expect.

    Theresa May might have a brass neck and poker face, but the cards she holds are for gin rummy, or perhaps that should be solitaire.

  176. sensibledave says:

    Andrew Mclean

    .. I have a different view of politicians to you Andrew. Whilst most Wingers seem happy to refer to their First Minister as “Nicola”, that sort of stuff doesn’t “wash” down here. We don’t hold politicians in such regard. I would be laughed at by my peers if I referred to the Prime Minister as “Theresa”. It makes me shudder to even think it!

    It follows that I have even less affinity with Ms Sturgeon. Whilst I admire her determination, grit and dedication to the cause, I do believe she is just another politician that will lie through her teeth or take a “false” position – if she thinks it will help her politically.

    Where she has the advantage over Ms May is that Ms Sturgeon’s “supporters” seem to take everything she says as “gospel”, hang on her every word and assume that she has got everything under control. NO politician in England has ever, or will ever have that degree of unflinching support. It ain’t the English way!

  177. Smallaxe says:

    Andrew McLean:

    Did you receive the epistle that I left for you on O/T yesterday my Friend? Peace Always

  178. I have just listened to Davidson’s interview with Robertson on GMS.
    What an empty headed little woman she is.
    If Big T declared Black were white, the Ruth would declare her undying support for the PM’s stance.
    ‘Access’ to the Single Market is not NS’position, Davidson.
    I got the impression that she barely understands the EU and how it works.
    She demands that the Scottish Govt invests more in public services, but not raise taxes, and that Tory Councils may raise CT by 3%, but scrap the increase for two bedroom flats in Edinburgh?
    She is as shallow as a fruit fly’s belly button.
    Nothing from Robertson on Ruth’s WM Head Office’s austerity package. She gets off Scot Free on Bedroom Tax, EHS disaster, and so on. She is after all just a wee pretend third rate politician Up Here warming her bum on the Holyrood benches.
    She actually has no power or influence at UK level, after all.
    As for the nonsense that she has been contributing to May’s Brexit strategy for 6 months now? Crap.
    Ken Clarke, a fellow Tory, has let the cat out of the bag. May and her Brexiteers haven’t a plan, and the whole Leave Project is in irredeemable chaos.
    Davidson is a one dimensional bench warmer.

  179. scotspine says:

    Sorry friend, they may well be, but if they pitched up at a Police Station in Scotland using English Law for a crime committed in Scotland, they would be shown the door.

    If they tried searhing my house under s17, 18, 19 or 32 PACE , they wouldnt get in.

    Crimes in Scotland are dealt with under Scots Law. Period.

  180. scottieDog says:

    “England has ever, or will ever have that degree of unflinching support. It ain’t the English way!”

    But refer to your media as ‘auntie’

  181. Andrew Mclean says:

    I also admire her determination, grit and dedication to the cause, I dont believe she is just another politician that will look after her own interests, just to get a seat on the board or in the lords, I believe – she will do ever political machinations possible if she thinks it will help politically, and what helps Nicola has always been what helps Scotland.

    Until the day she doesn’t, and should give up what she began and seek to make us or our kingdom subject to,…. we will treat her as our enemy and drive her out, etc etc and then as so long as a hundred remain alive!

    But your just a vassell of the Norman conqueror, what do you know of Scotland and its sovereign people. I don’t blame you in this, your forefathers should have fought harder for your nation.

  182. Meg merrilees says:

    Jack Collatin @5.09pm

    “The whole leave project is in irredeemable chaos”

    I think the way things are going, the whole of England could be in irredeemable chaos ere long…

    We’ve had Junior doctors’ strikes; a humanitarian crisis in their NHS; ‘tube’ strike in London; Nuclear workers are being balloted for strike action following a raid on their pensions-poss energy crisis as a result?
    Polar death blast heading this way – according to the Daily Express – will the english hospitals cope; will there be enough electricity; pound falls following TMay’s comments on Brexit yesterday; Tesco just announced 1,000 job losses etc. etc. What a mess!

    On a more serious note, Martin Mc Guiness has resigned – what can of worms will that open up?

  183. A thought: now that Ruth Davidson has declared publicly that she will not be fighting for the best Brexit deal for Scotland, and protect the rights of the citizens of Scotland, and will actively oppose the First Minister’s compromise EU proposals, will BBC GMS Scotland be interviewing the Westminster ‘heads’ of the four parties? That would be, in their obvious order of preference, Iain Ostracised Murray, Angus Robertson, David Mundell, and for a big finish, Alistair Carmichael of Portsmouth. (you must remember him. He was the Lost in Translation fibber.)
    In other words, why are they bothering to speak to the three Unionist monkeys Up Here, who have absolutely no influence on their Head Offices’ positions on Brexit?
    A pointless waste of air space, but then again, maybe that was the point.
    Dugdale, Davidson, and Harvie/Rennie can spout any asinine nonsense they like, it will have no bearing on what’s happening in London.
    Mundell is supposed to be the SoS. Why no interview with this sidelined little man?
    It is clear that Davidson and Dugdale have no interest in the future well being of their fellow Scots citizens. The Union, and preserving their precious little non job sinecures is all that matters.
    Roll on the farce unfolding as the Darling Duds of May self combust in the springtime.
    They only have at best 12 weeks of waffle before reality bites.
    Independence is inevitable now.

  184. Bill McLean says:

    So “sensible” has decided we are all thick because we trust Nicola. Well done “sensible” for highlighting another difference between Scotland and England – we now know who to trust! Unfortunately, we trusted Westminster for 300 plus years – look where that got us!

  185. Andrew Mclean says:

    They act under the authority of the chief constable of Police Scotland, If they were in attendance it would most likely be investigating a terrorism offence, and you would not have a choice. As I said they are attested officers of the law in Scotland.

  186. Andrew Mclean says:

    Small Axe

    Yes I did Sir, funny I find myself defending the Babylon here!

    Funny old world!


  187. K1 says:

    Ooh look at Davey boy going all ‘the English way’…wee touch o’ the blood and soil right there from the man who has used the term ‘nationalism’ in a pejorative context against some on these threads in recent years.

    Well at least yer acknowledging we’re a completely ‘different’ country from the one you reside in. With a completely different political ‘culture’. It’s not some ‘gospel’ belief in our politicians Davey, it’s admiration for the woman who has a genuine ‘inclusive’ approach to our polity.

    Your politics are driven by an abhorrent snobbery, were each ‘class’ looks down their noses at those less fortunate than their own ‘class’ tae make them feel like they are superior to others. That’s the entire status driven agenda of ‘your politicians’ and their disgusting attack on those less fortunate to ensure that ‘they’ the poorest in society, pay the price for the daylight robbery that took place and was largely caused by those in their own ‘monied class’, who have been allowed literally to get away wi the biggest robbery of public funds that’s ever occurred in the modern era.

    But that’s Tories fur ye Davey (blue/red/yellow). We don’t vote for Tories here Davey. We just got rid of our Torycopycat greedy selfish bastards here in 2015 because they too were abstaining and falling into line wi the mantra ‘we’re all in it together’. Load of utter pish.

    ‘NO politician in England has ever, or will ever have that degree of unflinching support. It ain’t the English way!’

    And yet England repeatedly votes for the blue Tories, it’s very much the English way Davey.

    Snobbery…the thing that you exude and excel at, is at the heart of much of ‘why’ your ‘polity’ vote unflinchingly for Tories.

  188. Bob MACK says:

    Where I live, I know everybody within a mile radius and call them by first name. This includes everybody no matter what or who they are.

    I lived in Gloucester for a few years and never even knew the first names of my direct neighbours during that time.

    Must be a Scottish thing.

  189. Liz g says:

    Andrew McLean @ 5.31
    I am no quite sure what you are saying there Andrew.
    Are you saying that because they act under the authority of the Scot’s Cheif constable they are able to act under English Law?
    EG They arrested you and charged you with manslaughter, surely any evidence then garthered would not be legitimate, until that had been corrected?

    Or are you saying that they are specifically trained in Scot’s law.

    Also if they generally only deal with terrisom issues do the also act on other issues encounters while on patroll?

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s a laugh a minute.

    Look at the first “reasons for signing” of those who “signed”.

  191. Meg merrilees says:

    Just a quickie while I remember, on the BBC R4 Today programme there was a discussion about the high cost of decommissioning N Sea oil and gas industry. For me the tell tale sentence in amongst the lies and scare mongering was this :

    ”The north sea oil and gas revenue has been a cash-cow for the UK treasury for the past few decades”

    Have to go out now.. it was on just before 8.00 am.

    Now we know – they’ve stated it on the BBC – must be true.

  192. scotspine says:

    Neil, im not arguing against you. Im merely pointung out that they MUST use Scots Law (Terrorism Act aside) when dealing with a “normal” crime in Scotland. They cant use PACE or any other English Law for crimes occurring in the Scots jurisdiction.

    If they arrested someone under an English law…eg Affray or Burglary say, they wouldnt have a leg to stand on legally, either at a Police Scotland charge bar ir with a Procurator Fiscal.

  193. Liz g says:

    Smallaxe @ 4.40
    Hi …My friend was wondering what is it in your area that they are guarding?

  194. yesindyref2 says:

    If anyone wants to “heart” Ruth Davidosn’s comment and spread it around social media, that would be very naughty.

    I found the link to the petition in the Express not surprisingly.

  195. Glamaig says:

    Leading question from Radio Shortbread ‘interview’ on decommissioning right now actually a choreographed script to inform us that our oil is now not only worthless, we need the generous UK to help us subsidise it.

    ‘So will the North Sea sector will be a drain on the UK economy?’

    etc etc

  196. mike d says:

    Well well interesting times ahead in northern Ireland.aye, this “union ” is starting to come apart at the seams big time.

  197. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Poor old sensible dave – or, maybe, the sensible dave who came onto the “back shift” at around 2pm, didn’t properly read what the sensible dave on the early shift had been posting.

    Afternoon sd insists the English would never refer to their political leader by their first name, as we Scots refer to “Nicola”. Pish.

    There is the old story of High Tories listing their post-war Prime Ministers: “Winston, Anthony, Harold, Alec, Heath, Maggie”. Heath was never seen as: “One of us” somehow.

    Certainly, everyone referred to The Wicked Witch (blue variety) as “Maggie” – which shoots sd’s argument out of the water.

  198. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Just a thought, which might have crossed minds other than mine: might one of the sensible daves be old OBE of Woking, of Herald website fame’s new personna?

  199. Nana says:

    If it has not already been posted, here’s the link for the McGuinness story

    Martin McGuinness resigns as Deputy First Minister triggering election in Northern Ireland

  200. Glamaig says:

    interesting article here with some relevence for Scotlands post indy situation

    There is a real risk that Ireland could allow our relationship with Europe to be defined by our relationship with the UK, which would be an enormous mistake in my view. Instead, we should have the confidence and direction to recognise that post-Brexit Ireland will need to have in place a wholly different set of relationships with our EU partners – relationships that we will forge, advocate, defend and address directly and out of the shadow of our nearest neighbour.

  201. K1 says:

    That’s a very good offer from Craig there Nana, and he makes an excellent point Bella doesn’t need to ‘fold’ just cause the ‘editor’ left. I really hope the board takes him up on it, I’m sure Craig would be able to revitalise Bella successfully, it really could take off…again!

    (interesting point he makes regarding the money side of things: ‘I confess to being confused by this. So far as I can judge, this blog has a slightly larger readership than Bella Caledonia (which stated its highest monthly readership was 370,000), and the total costs of this blog amount to £700 a year.’)

  202. Graeme Doig says:

    Jack Collatin

    “She’s as shallow as a fruit fly’s belly button”

    Wee chuckle at that.

  203. Vestas says:

    I guarantee you that the “board of Bella Caledonia” won’t take him up on it.

    The reason for that?

    Craig Murray isn’t one of the ex-SLABbers over there who think that we can’t have an indyref2 before Brexit (hello Angela) or thinks that it’ll take 3 years AFTER that (hello Robin) before we are independent.

    The “radical left” as always will fuck it up.

  204. TheWasp says:

    Does anybody Scottish live in Dumfries and Galloway? Interviews on the effect of brexit on the tourist trade and ever voice in positions of influence were English.
    Caravan park owners, local community leaders and the guy from the nature reserve,chit a Scottish voice to be heard. No wonder flufster and son get in..

  205. Stu Mac says:

    @Socrates MacSporran says:
    9 January, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    Naw. OBE was a complete and genuine nutter. SD is obviously sane but a bit insidious and deceptive … OBE had weirder opinions than SD but was honestly weirdly opinionated.

  206. Smallaxe says:

    Andrew McLean:@ 5-37pm

    I too, find myself on occasion with a foot on either side of a threshold and surprisingly comfortable within the position Brother.Peace Always

  207. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks for that Nana, it’s a great idea.

    @Stu Mac
    I liked OBE, he had humour. But in particular he was the perfect foil when you had a lot to say but wanted to restrict a posting to a sensible readable 4 spaced paragraphs of 3 lines each. He’d reply and you could do another 4 paras of 3 lines – not neccesarily having anything to do with his reply!

  208. heedtracker says:

    Sensiblefave would be fine but he’s clearly 100% anti independence. All his shite about being FOR indy but only IF Scots want it too, is just old school UKOK bullshit.

    Sensible knows full well Scotland’s going to take back a shed load of investment from the south east of England, just on England losing a massive chunk of its borrowing capacity alone. Brexit made it even worse.

    Before the 2014 ref, and 2015 GE, yoon culture was crapping it that SNP might get near power in Westminster and immediately start pulling big spends like HS2 back up to Scotland. Not actually bringing HS2 up to Scotland but taking the money off them for Scotland.

    They’ve junked sterling now and with Scotland approaching full independence, their whole London centralisation superheated economic madness is heading for a steep decline, as sterling drops even more. Sensible’s right to be afraid but its too late now.

    How’s UK S&P credit rating going these days for example?

  209. Ken500 says:

    How much decommissioning will be done in Scotland?

    The funding will just go from one sector to another. Not out of Scotland.

  210. Joannie says:

    Off topic – Sinn Féin have walked out of NI’s government. That means an election in six weeks, which if it returns the DUP as the largest party also means that SF will refuse to re-enter government.

    So now, on top of triggering Article 50, and dealing with a discontented Scotland, the UK government will probably have to administer direct rule in NI again.

  211. As an aside, from Stu’s twitter a/c, does the BBC Establishment realise that Gatiss and Moffat appeared to have cocked a snoot at the Powers That Be by using Jimmy Saville as their model for the Deranged billionaire serial killer in this week’s episode?
    I might watch another episode, although probably not.

  212. galamcennalath says:

    A trade deal with the US. Hmmm. The UK is a net importer of food. Scotland isn’t but if we’re still in the UK we could end up getting US imported food.

    Donald Trump’s team have reassured Boris Johnson that the US will seek a trade deal with the UK as fast as possible following Brexit.

    The President-elect’s key aides told the Foreign Secretary in America that Britain would be “front of the line” when it became possible to negotiate.

    So what’s the problem with US food? Simple, by EU standards much of it isn’t fit for human consumption. That’s why you see so little US food in our shops – their food industry makes no attempt to meet EU standards.

    There are lots of shitey things about Brexit, but ending up eating foods which are banned in the EU could well be one of them! Welcome to Britannia’s brave new Toryboy world. I, for one, just don’t want to be part of what they probably have planned.

    Found one link among many which gives you some idea why many US foods should be avoided!

  213. Terry says:


    I saw the interview of folk in Galloway too and never heard a Scottish accent. So I take your point.

    I got fed up of bella. Some good articles but the antagonism and the elitism of certain anti SNP articles was annoying. And I’m green friendly. Wings and wee ginger dug are streets ahead.

    Radio shortbread banging on about the £24 billion cost of decommissioning for uk tax payers yet not mentioned on radio 4. Hmmm. Also the abandonment in nhs England of the 4 hour waiting time at A and E not covered in scotland. The bbc spinning plates as ever. I reckon the lot will come crashing down.

    And as for Nicola? We trust her. Simples.

  214. Mungo says:

    Don’t forget to respond to the consultation on a second independence referendum,

  215. Dan Huil says:

    @Joannie 7:35pm

    N Ireland will be interesting. Things are piling up on May. Will she send in the tanks, with the Ruthsfuhrer atop?

  216. Smallaxe says:

    liz g says

    9 January, 2017 at 6:11 pm
    Smallaxe @ 4.40
    “Hi …My friend was wondering what is it in your area that they are guarding?”

    Hi, liz, their priority is the now being “Decommissioned”, Chapelcross Nuclear Power Station.

    This establishment was never a “power” station, it was a factory for making tritium which is an essential component for the production of Nuclear weapons amongst various other things, the “Power” was merely a by-product of the process.There are also several other places in this area where conventional weapons and ammunition have been stored since the British Army came out of Germany.

    We have lovely beaches on the Solway Firth which light up beautifully of an evening, mainly due to a bad habit of some people firing Depleted Uranium shells into the water in the not so distant past.

    People can get a lovely tan here, even at Night! Peace Always my dear Friend.

  217. Mungo says:

    Just to clarify. That consultation is regarding views on how the next referendum should be conducted i.e. Should international observers be brought in etc.

  218. Liz g says:

    Smallaxe @ 8.10
    Thank you…An education every day on Wing’s right enough.

    Keep well my friend…Love to Mrs Smallaxe X

  219. Ken500 says:

    Decommissioning will take 20 years. That averages at £1Billion a year. Most of it spent in Scotland. More lies from the Unionists. Oil tax is 40% from Jan 2016.

    The Tories were taxing the Oil sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing £Billions and thousands of jobs in Scotland.

  220. @Mungo

    Thanks for that link to the Scot Gov consultation on the workings of Indy 2,

    put down that I would like to see a 5 year residency in Scotland before you get to vote on Scotland`s Independence,

    and no `second home` incomers getting the vote,Scotland must be the main residence,

    also said that the Electoral Commission was hopeless and would rather have a non UK input into the policing of the Referendum.

  221. Andrew Mclean says:

    The absolute joy of the state propaganda department, radio devision to the uppity Scottish yokels tonight was breathtaking in its unabashed bias, when putting the question on decommissioning costs ” oh let’s say well, a possible future Scottish independence referendum” was annunciated with such unabashed hatred for Scotland and the Scottish it surely deserves world wide State propaganda award of 2017, and the year has hardly begun, truly the bar has been set high.

    The North Korean government will execute another few announcers for not being even in the same high trolling standard as radio Scotland.

    I think she actually had a little moment to herself, such was her obvious orgasmic vocalisation and contorted smirking.

    Well done BBC Scotland another new low!


  222. Glamaig says:

    Scot Finlayson says:

    ‘put down that I would like to see a 5 year residency in Scotland before you get to vote on Scotland`s Independence,’

    I would rather involve as many as possible of our 173000 citizens of EU origins, instead of excluding them. Also, this time round more of our rUK people will probably vote yes – alot of them will be students/academics.

  223. Dan Huil says:

    Aye, the bbc misreporting Scotland campaign is really pissing off the PQ britnats.

  224. Lochside says:

    BBC Scotland ‘News’ excelled itself tonight in downright bare-faced bad news/SNP bad. Apparently there is zero tax take on the oil revenue now and it will cost £24 billion to decommission the useless rigs and platforms…..laughable but done straightfaced to camera.

    Drug injecting rooms in Scandanavia up next….with close ups of whacked out junkies, needles etc.message?..the SG are planning these here folks!…cue several hundred thousand reactionary Scots muttering at their tv screens ‘bloody waste o’ money…that SNP throwing oor money at scum like that’.

    Then cheerful stuff about the Mull of Galloway tourist slump having absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Maybe the fact that the four people interviewed were owners or representatives of economic levers in this area, and all appeared to come from the same part of the North of England.

    Wullie Johnstone didn’t think this was remarkable enough to comment on…and neither did he think maybe tourists come to the Mull to experience Scotland, not little England run by moaning faced incoming little Brits. When I watch these reports it worries me that areas such as Galloway are reaching tipping point in identity due to RUK settlement. A recent poll showed Scottish identity in D&G have the lowest ratio..around 50-59%, indicating large non Scottish immigration. Does this reflect in the Unionist vote in this area? If so, a worrying confirmation of long term chances for Independence being compromised by RUK settlers resistance to supporting our freedom.

    No wonder Jackie was giving it her best rictus grin at the end…just another day from ‘Anti’ Scotland BBC.

  225. louis.b.argyll says:

    In the UK..
    ..eating your ‘5 a day’
    (if it’s all from EU)
    could soon be banned.

    To ‘fit’ trade deals,
    the quality of ALL STUFF
    in shops will decline.

    The US has/had different
    traditional regulation in
    the form of a ‘wide choice’
    of goods and standards.

    It’ll be..
    ‘Buy British* or die British!’
    *or American.

    Then, our Conservative or
    Labour-coalition Government
    will sell-off our remaining
    industries, our academia and

    (*Beanstalk not guaranteed.
    However, trade deal beans can
    be cashed-in -but only for
    defence procurement bonds
    and the like.

    ..we’re here to be
    exploited like any other
    struggling country.

    A ‘former’ bully,
    who’s now at the
    ‘mercy of the markets’.

    In the UK..that is.

    I’m off..

  226. woosie says:

    Jack Collatin;

    The reason that David Balliol Mundell won’t appear on GMS is that it’s too far for Tresemme’s hand to reach up his shirt tail! Why doesn’t she just draw two lines from lips to chin in black felt pen? He’s the world’s highest paid ventriloquist’s dummy!

  227. Robert Peffers says:

    @sensibledave says: 9 January, 2017 at 10:12 am:
    “Ms Sturgeon spoke powerfully and with authority I thought and made a number of interesting points – but, in
    reality, I thought she was speaking to her troops rather than send any message that she expects to be taken account of elsewhere.”

    Are not perception and perspective wonderful things, Sensibledave?

    Believe me, though, when I say that Nicola has great authority and many wise people, all around the globe, believe her to be a very statesmanlike political leader – and they are correct in believing so.

    That little lady is not known for ever putting a foot wrong. Do not be fooled by the outer surface, sensibledave. The inner core is pure, tempered steel. When Nicola tells you something it is advisable to listen – very carefully.

    On the other hand the Worldwide view of Mrs May is somewhat more muted and even many of her own government think she is ill prepared and ill informed on several scores. I did notice a sharp turn in her stated views within the last 48 hours. She seemed, at last, to have faced reality a little more.

    Anyone with a finger on the pulse of the European Union, (and who does not rely upon the United Kingdom Main Stream Media for information), is well aware of the reality Mrs May, and the Brexiteers, are reluctant to accept.

    The EU’s entire raison d’etre would be as nothing if the EU were to act as these clowns anticipate. In the first instance the EU is an organ whose primary aim is to pull the member state together and to pull in as many suitable new members as they can.

    To that end they do not make it overly easy to become a member state nor do they waver too much in the conditions required to be met to become a member state. Their secondary aim is to protect their members both as member states and their peoples as EU citizens.

    Now here’s the facts. The EU will not, under any circumstance, allow any member state to deviate from the rule that the only way to leave the EU is by use of the formal laid down procedure. (and I quote):-

    Withdrawal from the European Union is a legal and political process whereby a Member state of the European Union (EU) exercises its right under the Treaty on European Union (TEU) to cease to be a member of the union. Withdrawal is governed by TEU Article 50, which states that: “Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

    Yet the Brexiteers thought they could blithely waltz in and negotiate informally while laying down the conditions they thought they were entitled to demand. The very soon found out there will be NO informal dealings and came away with their collective noses in a sling.

    Second to the above the EU has absolutely no laws, rules or other mechanisms to take away any EU citizens citizenship against the citizens will. It would be EU madness to do so. For that would destroy the whole point of there even existing a European Union. Note that any EU citizen, while anywhere in the World, who gets into difficulty is legally entitled to help from any EU Member State’s Consulates or Embassies. In simple terms all member States are EU consulates for all EU citizens. The only way to stop being an EU citizen is to formally request NOT to be or to die.

    Mrs May finally seems to have awakened to the above fact only in the past week or so.

    “The argument that a majority of Scots voted to Remain is a powerful one but, in the end will carry no weight in the Brexit negotiations.”

    sensibledave, wake up – that dream has ended. Go read the EU laws on Self Determination.

  228. harry mcaye says:

    Lochside – they also failed to mention the good news story announced today that for the first time, wind turbines in Scotland generated enough power for all the nation’s electricity needs over four straight days in December, 23-26. STV News did think the story newsworthy.

  229. McDuff says:


    Agree with your post. We are being invaded by stealth.

  230. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for January 2013 now over on O/T.

  231. @Glamaig

    personally would like to see the vote given only to those born in Scotland which was in 2014 a 50/50 split,

    but I know that aint gonna happen,

    those born outwith Scotland but in rest of UK was over 70% for NO,

    those born outwith UK was 57% for NO,

    don`t know how non Scottish students voted,

    would rather people voted that see Scotland as a home than people who are just passing through,

    anyhoo a good read on a cold Scottish night,

    this is from the Electoral Commissions own research after Indy 1

    2.5 Among those who report that they voted in the
    referendum, 50% claim to have voted ‘Yes’ and 37% claim
    to have voted ‘No’. Even taking into account the 13%
    who indicate that they would prefer not to say, this
    does not reflect the actual result of the referendum,
    in which 55% voted ‘No’ and 45% voted ‘Yes’.

  232. Robert Peffers says:

    Och! Sensibledave, You have a genius for commenting screeds of details but missing the obvious. Perhaps this is because you either miss the obvious or want to swerve others away from the obvious.

    In this case the obvious that you miss is that no matter if the relative costs of imports and exports goes up or down the important factor is not in the values of the Pound Sterling but in the relationship between UK imports and exports.

    Put simply the UK is a net importer of goods. No matter the value of the pound there will only be one factor that makes a great difference – the relationship of quantity of UK exports to UK Imports.

    BTW: Scotland is a net exporter and that in spite of the UK accountancy methods of classing Scottish exports that leave the UK via England to be English Exports.

    If they were to properly account for each UK country’s exports England would have been bankrupt centuries ago.

    Here just one wee fact. Scots whisky exporting is dominated by a company named, “Diagio”.

    Diageo is the giant of the industry, owning 27 malt distilleries, and 2 grain distilleries. It built its name as a producer of blended whisky, notably Bells, and now owns Johnnie Walker. Its best-known single malts are Lagavulin, Oban and Talisker.

    Other single malt whiskies in its portfolio are Auchroisk, Benrinnes, Blair Athol, Cardhu, Clynelish, Caol lla, Cragganmore, Dailuaine, Dalwhinnie, Dufftown, Glen Elgin, Glen Ord, Glen Spey, Glenkinchie, Glendullan, Glenlossie, Inchgower, Johnny Walker pure malt, Linkwood, Mannochmore, Mortlach, Pittyvaich, Rosebank, Strathmill and Teaninich.

    In addition to Bells and Johnny Walker, its blended malt whiskies are Black and White, Haig, J&B Rara, Spey Royal, VAT 69, White Horse, Buchanans, Dimple (sold in the U.S. as Pinch) and Old Parr.

    Incidentally Scotland produces 72% of UK Gin and that too is exported via England’s ports and thus is accounted as English exports.

    Strange how Yoons are so sketchy of such easily proven facts – Or is it?

  233. Stoker says:

    Did anyone catch the other good news story from the BBC in Scotland. Aye, the amount of drink drivers caught during the festive season has rocketed and it’s all the fault of those b@$t@rd$ at the SNP, apparently.

    A real news channel, which we will have in an independent Scotland, would at least attempt to give us the truth and give credit to where credit is due. Well done to Scotland’s police force for the thankless task you all do in keeping our roads safe.

    BBC? Away and take a very long walk off a short pier.

  234. heedtracker says:

    McDuff says:
    9 January, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    Agree with your post. We are being invaded by stealth.

    The Heil reprobates said it was half a million, 2014. But even if its a million, its still with four million Scots voters. I wouldn’t worry about it. London and south east housing boom has created a vast army of cash rich English people flowing out of England, to all parts of the world.

    Its one of Crash Gordo’s oddest and greatest economic triumphs, making a lot of English people millionaires, just by buying a house in London, during Gordo’s early glory days, in London.

    You can buy a whole Kirkcaldy street for the price of a two up two down, in a so so London burb. The red tories are an odd crew.

  235. heedtracker says:

    “BBC? Away and take a very long walk off a short pier.”

    So, vile seps, how’s the all new and exciting Donalda Mackinnon reign of BBC vote NO Scotland grot going, with her in The National pledging, “to look at how it could ensure that more of the licence fee cash raised in Scotland is spent here”

    Worse than the last bloated nutcase Director right. Just when you thought the Pacific Quay creep show couldnt get any worse:D

  236. Sarah says:

    ITV news tonight did a good piece on the 15 minute social care home visits failures in England. Full marks to Tom Bradby who asked his colleague if this was true for the rest of the UK.

    BUT his colleague blew it: quoted a source for Wales which said it is worse there, and then “so that goes for elsewhere too”!! A false statement about Scotland and no research to find out the fact that in Scotland health and social care provision is integrated.

    I’ve sent a comment to ITN news of course and when I get an apology I’ll let you know [don’t hold your breath too long…]

  237. Fred says:

    Anent Craig Murray’s Bella offer, well done that man! truth to tell I like the logo!

  238. alexicon says:

    Just watched the ITV report on England’s NHS crisis.
    At the end of the article the health correspondent was asked how the other parts of the uk were coping. He replied by saying that NHS Wales said that things are just as bad, if not worse than in England. So he finished by saying it is happening all over the uk, no mention of Scotland’s NHS.
    It really must stick in their craw.

  239. Lenny Hartley says:

    Oliver and the Great British Orkney show. A few observations.
    Every opportunity taken to mention Britain, but Scotland never mentioned apart from
    some organisations in the credits at the end. for example they travel in an Coracle from Orkney to Britain or the British Mainland never the Scottish Mainland.
    They big up the danger saying nobody has every built a replica Coracle, no mention of Tim Severin building one in the late seventies and recreating Brendan the Navigators journey from Ireland to North America.
    They find some Cattle (Bull) bones under the foundation stones of the main building, and theorise of some society that worships Bulls, but no mention of the Pictish site at Burghead where Bulls were carved into Symbol Stones, Neither were any mention of the Picts made in relation to the Carved Stone balls which have been found at many sites of Pictish Symbol Stones.

    Typical BBC lies by omission, and oh by the way on the map they showed of the Pentland Firth, Mainland Scotland was obscured that much it made the Orkney Isles look bigger than Mainland Scotland. Welcome to the new weather map. If they defend there use of the term Britain rather than Scotland by the fact that Scotland did not exist at the time they are researching . well neither did Britain.

  240. heedtracker says:

    “I think it was [BBC director general] Tony Hall in his introduction to our Charter pitch who said: ‘We are stewards of a great institution.’ I believe that I am just that – a steward of what I regard as an institution and a really important institution for Scotland and for Scottish audiences.”

    So judging by the reviews of all new and exciting Donaldo’s stewarding stuff posted on WoS, she’s certainly hit the ground running.

    Hope she’s a WoS reader. Looks like any critical review of BBC Scotland just inflames them, like a boil, on the arse of humanity.

  241. heedtracker says:

    Lenny Hartley says:
    9 January, 2017 at 10:49 pm
    Oliver and the Great British Orkney show.

    Did Oliver ever mention the word Scotland this week, ever? Watched the first episode catch up and he never said the “Scotland” word once. Only Britain and ancient Britons. What an idiot.

  242. Lenny Hartley says:

    Heedtracker, Don’t think he did, Its actually an amazing thing to watch and once we are Independent it should be shown to Skool kids as an example of how State Propaganda works, very subtle.

    There are so many links between the site at Brodgar and later Celtic society in both Ireland and Scotland and probably Wales and what is now England and yet no mention of the Celts, only Stonehenge is mentioned which off course the English think was built by their ancestors. Im not saying that there is not any Celtic blood left in your average English man but as Robert Peffers has pointed out many times, the establishment and ruling classes are in the main Anglo Saxon/Norman. In fact to digress the so called Class system is actually a Racial apartheid system with the lower classes being of Celtic Heritage.

    Years ago I used to get annoyed reading so called historians writing about events in Bronze Age Scotland and Ireland and calling the people Proto-Celts as they could not be Celtic as they were later invaders. This is taught as it fits in with the English narrative that the Celts were immigrants like them and not the Indigenous population of the British Isles which DNA and other evidence now proves.

  243. Tam Jardine says:

    harry mcaye

    I saw them push the increase in drink driving but there is no place on Reporting Scotland or the BBC for the incredible 132% of our electricity needs met by wind power on Christmas Eve and 153% on Christmas Day.

    We have some way to go and I think I read the overall figure for December was 53% provided by wind energy but the direction of travel is great. Lets focus instead on an extra couple of hundred people driving when they should not.

    Stats are funny things- the chances are there has been a slight relaxing in attitudes towards drink driving or maybe the dropping of the limit has drifted into the past. Maybe the police are becoming better at working out who should be tested? They are certainly testing more people which explains part of the increase.

    It is hard to get ones head around but there could be a 100% increase in the number of people caught in a year where drink driving dropped overall.

    It is of course a good thing to highlight the increase and it may mean people are less likely to drink drive but stats can be misleading. Increasing levels of any crime detected can be a sign of success on behalf of the police just as a decrease could signal failure.

  244. heedtracker says:

    Lenny Hartley, it is usually rather mad watching English history and archeology blot out Scotland. Its a tragedy really, if only because the Scottish half of the British isles are often very different. But Britnats rule so much of Scotland in big and little ways.

    This is a beautiful example of a young researcher working with almost no funding at all. The mad scroats of the BBC have deigned to give her a wee mention though.

  245. Molly says:

    Macduff , sorry if I’ve missed an earlier point, just catching up but rather than invaded by stealth shouldn’t that be wealth?

    Saw the tweets advertising Gary Robertson promoting his interviews with the leaders of the Parties and just thought – why?

    We can all write the scripts.

    We all know Kezia will offer serious fedmaxselfautonomy nonsense, while Ruth Davidson will say – well anything quite frankly.

    So just wondered if anyone else would like Gary to interview say Scotland in Union?

    Let’s ask why this ‘ movement’ requires fundraisers of say more than £300,000 ?

    In a Scottish context that’s a lot of money.

    What is it they’re going to use the money to campaign for apart from the three frozen folk who get sent out on a Saturday to wave’ no more referendums’ placards ( so the money isn’t getting spent on them)

    What are they going to do now that Nicola has said- not in the immediate future?

    If Alistair Darling etc attended their fundraiser what exactly is their aim/support for? As his own Scottish Labour Party could only dream of raising that kind of cash

    We were out moneyed the last time, ‘ don’t let’s get distracted by the front women, let’s see what’s going on in the background?

    Gary Robertsons interviews add nothing to the debate, just ends up as a story created by the BBC for the BBC, let’s try to at least establish who the real opposition are and why the Unionists are being so smug

  246. Stephen McKenzie says:

    Sorry folks, but this is an exclusive, as I see the Herald has pulled todays Michelle Mone story off its web page.

    Either that or Spec Savers just aint doing it for me any more, as is most things..

    Anyway the story highlighted that the bold Michelle has only been in the HOL for 10% of the debates and has yet to make a speech. The comments to the story were very stirring and went into some detail about her current research into suitable financed boyfriends taking up most of her time.

    Michelle, I am available for legal action or tanning product trials – your place or mine..

  247. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stu Mac says: 9 January, 2017 at 4:30 pm:

    “I hardly think Hardie and his colleagues meant they were going to pay for it all out of their own pockets.”

    And this is the commenter that accused me of being silly?

    Where, Stu Mac, did I suggest anything even vaguely like that?

    ” … It’s just playing semantics to suggest folk would think anything else was meant.”

    Aye! Stu Mac and the semantics are all yours for I neither said or suggested anything of the sort.

    May I suggest you could benefit from a course in basic English Language Comprehension?

    “AS I said, we all know how the old Labour party became corrupt and useless so what’s the point of trying to do down men like Hardie (or those that introduced the National Health Service) who did their best, within limitations, to genuinely try to help the population?”

    Once more you make claims that do not exist. Nowhere did I say anything resembling that claim. I made a very clear and precise point: –

    “beginning with the very first Labour Party Member of the Westminster Parliament, Kier Hardie, the Labour Party manifesto promises have never, to date, been met.”

    I made no mention of the actual NHS, as such, but only of the point that the Labour manifestos said it was free. It is not now, never was and never will be free.

    I also mentioned, “Women’s Rights”, that Labour promised to make equal with men’s rights and that too has never been achieved.

    I drew attention to the Labour promise of Independence for India and it was India that TOOK their independence. It was not handed to them by Labour but fought for tooth & nail by the peoples of India and opposed all the way by the United Kingdom.

    Now it may not have impinged upon your mind that the topic being commented upon was the way that the three Westminster unionist branch office managers in Scotland, aided and encouraged by the dead tree press and broadcasters, were co-ordinating a propaganda campaign against the SNP SG’s manifesto Policies.

    If that is the case then perhaps, before shooting your mouth off on a hair trigger it would benefit your credibility to engage your brain first before pulling the trigger.

  248. Effijy says:

    ITV NEWS AT 10 discussed Tory NHS England
    giving up on 4 hour A & E treatments. Then asked
    If you wondered how other parts of the U.K. are
    Coping. Well if you live in Wales their NHS is even
    worse than England!

    Personal pause as chest puffs out with pride
    awaiting wonderful NHS Scotland figures.
    Disappointment , they can only mention that
    S Country with fictitious bad news.

    Not to worry, we can sort that when we are
    Independent and have unbiased broadcasters.

    I was going to ask my local MP if it was an idea
    to ask if people could volunteer to pay 1p extra
    On their Tax band, if it all went to the NHS here
    In Scotland? The Tories can’t then say we have
    Had tax rises foisted upon us.

    Also like to have SNP ask the Westminster
    Tories if they would like tips on how to run a
    Health service and out perform everyone
    Inspire of having more remote areas to support
    In colder climate with poor dietary issues?

  249. Liz g says:

    Molly @ 11.32
    While that’s a great post Molly….Ye made wan error.
    Ruthie disnay say “anything” in the strictest sense of the word.
    She disnay say anything that’s actually true….

  250. Chick McGregor says:

    “Decommissioning will take 20 years. That averages at £1Billion a year. Most of it spent in Scotland. More lies from the Unionists. Oil tax is 40% from Jan 2016. ”

    Ken, No way would an independent Scotland be liable for all the tax relief/refunds on decommissioning.

    At least not without the rUK conceding that all past oil tax revenues should have accrued to Scotland and therefore they would have to recompense us for the £200+ Billion taken.

    Would that were true.

    But I expect we will be fobbed off with a pro rata tax relief share circa 100 million per year max or thereabouts.

  251. Robert Peffers says:

    @sensibledave says: 9 January, 2017 at 5:01 pm:

    ” … Where she has the advantage over Ms May is that Ms Sturgeon’s “supporters” seem to take everything she says as “gospel”, hang on her every word and assume that she has got everything under control. NO politician in England has ever, or will ever have that degree of unflinching support. It ain’t the English way!”


    There, sensibledave, you have hit a exceedingly large. long and case-hardened nail on its very large and prominent head.

    There is very good reason why Nicola, and the SNP at large, are held in such high regard. Not only by her supporters either. That regard is the product of a very long and hard road of proven and verifiable truth and honesty.

    You, in your little England that knows so little of Scots and their country, do not comprehend the situation engendered by the Westminster Establishment up here in Scotland.

    I’m an old man now, sensibledave, and I began to take an interest in political matters when I was around 9 or 10 years old. By 11 I was getting involved in politics.
    (there were no home computers back then and no TV either up here).

    In my Secondary School class I was vice captain and the captain was a rich mans son and he was one day to become a Tory Lord Provost of Edinburgh.

    A close neighbour, who lived immediately across the street, was campaigning to win the local ward for Labour and he too eventually became the first ever Labour Lord Provost of Edinburgh. I was also inspired by such old worthies as Canon Kenyon Wright, Wendy Wood and Willie McRae and began to support, the then almost reviled. SNP.

    I know first hand that there has always been a Westminster Establishment led campaign of lies and propaganda against anything to do with the SNP. It is, by the large, a total load of downright lies.

    The case of Arthur Donaldson is a case in point. The claims of SNP NAZI Support have no basis in truth. Closer to today the BBC’s Nick Robinson’s broadcast that Alex Salmond, “Did not answer”, have been aired on here within the week and the lies that Alex Salmond had claimed to have EU Legal advice are still currently dredged up too.

    Yet the question Neil asked Salmond was actually this, “and did you have legal advice from your own government legal advisors”.

    So quite how Salmond is supposed to have claimed he had legal advice from the EU when he said he had got it from his own legal advisors is rather strange.

    There is a constant and sustained campaign of sheer lies and propaganda against the SNP yet Nicola has been truthful and honest with the people of Scotland.

    The thing is that even with every news outlet in the land lying and attempting to put Scotland and the Scottish government down on a 24/7/365 basis the SNP are running Scotland very well indeed.

    They do it honestly, and for the benefit of the people of Scotland and not to either their own benefit or that of their party.

    Consider this – there is only one political party in Westminster whose elected members work so hard to do themselves out of a job.

    The rest seem hell bent upon getting a skunk tipper red robe, a seat on red leather benches, £300 per day expenses and subsidised food, drink and travel.

    The point is that the SNP have a proven record of honesty and integrity and their popularity is increasing in direct relationship to the decline of the Westminster unionists party members.

    Thus, Dave, there is good reason for the love felt for Nicola. Had you not noticed, though, that we often also refer to the other party leaders by their first names?

    Perhaps in a slightly different manner like, “Ruth the Mooth”, or Wee Wullie Rennie, (any reference to sexual organ equipment is purely co-incidental), but you get the picture?

    Seriously, Dave, there is good reason and it may well be that these political figures are right here and in easy contact with the people.

    Could you imagine the Westminster PM walking along the street without a police and security services escort without even a remote chance of selfies being taken with all and sundry?

    It is Dave a different country, a different politics and a different attitude.

    Yet you Englanders wonder why we want out of this disunited United Kingdom.

  252. Col says:

    HELLO! Why are w still sitting on our hands here? The BBC in Scotland cannot and will not report on Scottish issue’s without a heavy unionist bias. Now is the time for the EU to step in. We still have human rights! Not for long though.

  253. Smallaxe says:

    Mr Peffers:
    Last thread 8th Jan 3:07pm

  254. Meg merrilees says:

    Chick Mc Gregor

    I wonder if TMay/G.Osbourne have done a deal with China that we have to decommission their oil rigs as and when they decide to leave the N Sea? Wouldn’t put it past them seeing as how the deal for the new Hinckley Point includes the British tax payer footing the bill for any decommissioning and clean up costs incurred…

    We need to let the Scottish people know asap that the costs for decommissioning should be met by the licence holder and that this is just Project fear on steroids.

    pathetic attempt to terrify the plebs!

    Meanwhile England continues to descend into chaos. People are blamed for being ill and bringing the NHS to its knees; people warned not to travel in London as too many of them resulting in making it too dangerous;
    Not enough people being seen in A &E within 4 hours English solution make the target bigger and blame the public, keep old people in care homes.
    Scottish solution NS puts an extra £108million into health and social care to prevent bed blocking and help reduce preventable hospital admissions.

    I know which country I’m glad to live in.
    Great pity the media is not spreading the good news on Scotland’s behalf.

    Lovely post Robert @1.00am, couldn’t have put it better.

  255. manandboy says:

    I know it’s late, but night and day, the ground beneath England’s feet is moving in a downward and perilous direction. Wherever ‘the moral high ground’ is, it does’nt appear to be in England, or at least no one is capable of standing on it these days.

    Like coastal erosion, the moral high ground in England has been slowly disappearing since the time of Mgt. Thatcher. But, in the past few years, since the Tories came to power in 2010 in fact, the speed of moral decay in England has become rather scary.
    Hence the acknowledgement by all and sundry, that we are now in a ‘post truth’ era, which simply means that those who engage in political and economic discourse have dispensed with the truth, and gone over to lying, in all its myriad forms. Including, and indeed pre-eminently, the BBC.

    There is a story about a man who built his house on sand, and then along came a bit of bad weather, and down his house came. I don’t know if that story was written in England. But, as things stand, it might well apply to England.

    Is any ‘bad weather’ being forecast for South Britain at any time in the near future ?

  256. Cactus says:

    Yeah, regarding the timing of when to hold our Indy Ref 2..

    There be no surprises (barring wildly unexpected or unforeseen events) it will be sometime in ’18.

    The important purpose of ’17 is to announce the actual DATE of Indy Ref 2, this year. That chosen date is what we all then work towards.

    (Remember, there was over a year between the Indy Ref 1 date, to when the original announcement was made in Holyrood. Still, some persons have said they would prefer a shorter campaign, who knows?)

    For reference, I’d recommend popping the 7th of April into your Scottish diaries as a marker point. Now dinnae go an dae anything rash afore then, we’re takin’ care o business 😉

    Mark the day.


  257. Col says:

    Two problems, GERS, BBC
    Suppose you could add a to that. Westminster and the secret services, corrupt corporations headed by by one of theirs. We got caught up in too many arguments before about silly things. The BBC controlled the narrative. That’s why and how we lost!

  258. Cactus says:

    Also ~

    When our future ‘Independence Referendum 2’ date is announced, later this year.

    We also get to find out the chosen date of our ‘Independence Day.’

    Two reasons to party and celebrate Scotland.

  259. Dorothy Devine says:

    Just nipped over to the herald – I’m a slow learner!

    There is a comment from a Moseley and a Wilson both using ‘St Urgeon’ to refer to the FM – does this mean they are one and the same ? Either way they are both ignorant pillocks.

    I nipped over to see if the Mone story was still there and it is , btw she also ‘designs and sells’ jewellery on QVC.

  260. Dan Huil says:

    @Cactus 2:56am

    I think you’re right. Because of the usual Westminster red, white and blue tape of obfuscation it takes a wee while to arrange a date of a referendum. So 2018 it is then. Unless the Scottish parliament has a straight vote on the matter of independence in 2017…

  261. Dan Huil says:

    @Col 3:50am

    The britnat bbc has to be the main target for us in 2017.

  262. Nana says:

    Businesses must find £10bn a year to cover Brexit pension shortfall, report say

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel demanded that the U.K. adhere to European Union rules on freedom of movement

    Brexit: Economists put cost of UK losing European Union single market membership at £75bn

  263. Dan Huil says:

    Well well, fellow wingers, apparently we’ve been funding a “less-deserving” website, at least according to the britnat bbc. Jings, the bbc misreporting Scotland campaign has hit a bbc nerve or three.

  264. JaceF says:

    When the Supreme Court throw out the Government’s use of Royal prerogative and the constitutional arrangement of the UK is questioned with regard to Scotland’s status and rights it will be too much for the voters down South. The situation can only escalate from there, put the EU referendum in a constitutional frame and it’s clear to see that England and Wales voted to leave the UK. There can be no other direction of travel unless there is either a second UK referendum or a Scottish independence referendum.

    The BBC and Westminster cannot fight or control the narrative on five fronts at the same time: Ireland, the EU, Scottish Independence, English pride and Irish reunification. Triggering article 50 ignites these five areas, add to that the whole jamboree of unionists, Loyalists, britnats, Kippers and BNP activists who have just had their red, white and blue touch papers lit and stand back.

  265. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Breakfast is served, links, Kettle’s on. Peace Always

  266. galamcennalath says:

    The far right and their msm running dogs have twisted people’s minds into believing that immigration is a huge problem. Most of this is simply myth.

    Theresa May comes out of hiding to calm Brexit chaos, and fails spectacularly … the falling pound and flailing Brexit deal should be warning signs of how ‘immigration’ as a political topic has spun out of control.

  267. Effijy says:

    BBC news this morning- Yorkshire school
    Has arranged class seating to lecture or
    Theatre style to accommodate 46 pupils
    Sharing 1 Maths teacher.
    Parents declare English Education in crisis
    With more Tory cuts still to come.

    When Scottish Health and Education are
    Proven to be superior to England’s, will the
    BBC stop broadcasting news?

  268. Legerwood says:

    Tam Jardine @ 11.17 pm

    The increase in drink driving over the Christmas period compared to the same period last year was 0.4%.

    In 2015 police tested 16255 drivers and found 459 were over the limit. That is 2.8%.

    In 2016 police tested 19000 drivers and 625 were over the limit. That is 3.2% which is a 0.4% increase.

    The report on BBC Reporting Scotland on Monday night stated that there had been a 34% increase. They had subtracted 459 from 625 to get 166 which they then converted to a percentage of 459. This is totally the wrong way to analyse the figures and gives a totally misleading figure.

    The only way to compare the figures is to convert the number over the limit to a percentage of those tested then compare that figure to the percentage for the previous year when the number over the limit is determined as a percentage of those tested.

    This is what I did with the figures and this showed a 0.4% increase in drink drivers caught.

    The report ended by suggesting that these figures, the ones they had manipulated, would put others off adopting the policy of lower drink limits. Apparently most of the drivers caught in Xmas 2016, 90%, according to the BBC, were way over the old limit never mind the new lower limit.

  269. Macart says:


    Checking out the links and a few headlines this morn Nana. Haven’t had a laugh like this so early for ages. 😀 LOL

    Polls force Sturgeon to rule out indyref in 2017… blah, blah and carried by more than one of the usual suspects. Like there was ever the possibility, HAH! Actually, the scenario posited by the author of your first link doesn’t appear that far off what I reckon to be the likely course of events.

    Still, events can change a lot in the meantime. But given a good following wind and the facts to hand, that’s a pretty good summation. 🙂

    I’ve said from the get go… Let Westminster be Westminster. Their very nature will do the heavy lifting.

  270. galamcennalath says:


    “If Britain crashes out of the European single market for goods and services in the wake of the Brexit vote the country could be permanently poorer by 4 per cent of GDP … that loss equates to roughly £75bn, or £2,900 for each of the country’s 26 million households.”

    I believe that to be a serious prediction rather than just scaremongering.

    When this scenario eventually sinks in, it will have a profound effect on politics across the UK, but especially in Scotland where we hold a get out of jail card!

  271. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, hoping you are doing well today.


    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Last night I read the guardian’s coverage of Corbyn’s speech, this morning I read the Mirror’s which does not say what the guardian reported. Fake news by fake reporters to fool the people, that’s what we seeing more of.

    For Scotland this is a huge problem.I’m at a loss as to what we can do about this, placards, posters, town criers with loudhailers??

  272. galamcennalath says:


    “… a post-Brexit Britain cut off from the single market, unable to draw on the “passporting” rights that allow banks and other companies based in London to do business in Europe … bankers and other highly skilled professionals take their talents elsewhere.”

    I think there is a very real chance that some banks and financial institutions will begin to see the UK as unstable, unpredictable, and too risky. They will begin to move elsewhere in the EU long before Brexit reveals its nature.

  273. Macart says:


    ‘For Scotland this is a huge problem.I’m at a loss as to what we can do about this, placards, posters, town criers with loudhailers??’

    Just keep doing what we’re doing.

    Talking to each other. 🙂

  274. galamcennalath says:

    The document, Scotland’s Place in Europe, is the most detailed plan on any element of Brexit published anywhere on these islands. ….. It is clear that the only way to guarantee our European future, defend workers’ rights, environmental protections and our freedom of movement is as an independent nation within the European Union.

    Can’t disagree.

  275. Al Dossary says:

    @Col, 3.50am

    Re the secret services et al.

    Around 2 years ago, BBC radio shortbread re-ran a 7 part series about the rise of the Scottish Independance or SNP in Scotland. I managed to record 3 of these before coming back to the desert – I will try to locate tonight and dropbox or soundcloud them.

    The crux of the matter was that the man being interviewed had joined the SNP sometime in the 1950s.

    His father, who was friendly with the local police sergeant arrived home about 1 week later to state “I hear you have joined the SNP”. We were being closely watched then just as we are now.

  276. Broch Landers says:


    The news about Bella is revealing.

    Bella poses as revolutionary.

    Wings actually frightens the enemy.

    And that’s the key difference.

  277. manandboy says:


    A new report points to the taxpayer paying for the reorganisation of HMRC, just in time for Tory-planned privatisation of UK tax in ten years time.

    “Up to 38,000 staff from HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will be expected to move large distances as part of a reorganisation, a report has found.
    Some may need to relocate by up to 174 miles if they want to keep their jobs, the National Audit Office (NAO) said.
    The changes are part of long-term plans by HMRC to replace 170 offices across the UK with 13 large regional centres.
    HMRC said the plan would eventually save the taxpayer £83m a year, and help it provide a better service.
    Nevertheless the NAO said that the tax authority had already recognised that its original plans were unrealistic, and HMRC was considering changing them.
    “The changes HMRC is considering will inevitably increase uncertainty among some of its employees, and have the potential to harm its relationship with them,” the NAO report said.
    The cost of the new buildings involved had also escalated by £600m since the plan was first proposed in 2015, the report said.
    In the most extreme case, staff from an office in Redruth, Cornwall, will be invited to move 174 miles to a new office in Bristol.
    Workers from Aberdeen and Dundee will be relocated to Edinburgh, a distance of up to 127 miles.
    And a big new office in Croydon in south London, will see staff being moved from as far away as Norwich, more than 130 miles away.
    However the average move will be just 18 miles, the NAO said.

    The PCS trade union has already warned about the closures
    ‘Rising costs’
    As a result of the disruption, HMRC expects that around 5,000 staff who are unwilling to relocate will leave their jobs.
    The NAO said that could at first affect the ability of staff to do their jobs properly.
    “Staff that will be recruited at the new regional centres may have lower initial performance, and may take time to reach the productivity levels of more experienced staff,” the report said.
    The Public and Commercial Services (PCS) trade union, which represents the affected staff, has already said that it is worried that the cuts could harm HMRC’s ability to collect tax.
    “With costs rising, and the cracks beginning to show, it is now imperative that HMRC halts these plans and allows MPs and the public to have their say,” said Mark Serwotka, the PCS general secretary.
    But HMRC said the changes would deliver better value.
    “Our 13 new regional centres are an essential part of our work to modernise HMRC and provide an even better service for our customers,” an HMRC spokesperson said.
    “This will deliver annual savings to the taxpayer of £83 million from 2025-26 and will mean modern and cost-effective buildings with the latest technology and more training opportunities for staff.””

  278. Bob Millar says:


    If you havn’t yet seen its well worth a look.

  279. Socrates MacSporran says:


    The final paragraph of your post @ 8.51am is one of the truest and most-profound statements ever made on Wings.

    We can surely rely on Westminster scoring one or two own goals for us once the Indy2 referendum kicks-off properly.

    They will never take on-board any of Nicola’s suggestions – wouldn’t do to have the Sweaties having any influence.

    Labour’s latest federal notions – what, give away power from Westminster, never.

    There will be more – Westminster is the political equivalent of Ibrox: We are the people, our way or no way.

    And that is why we will win.

  280. Nana says:


    HMRC plan to close dozens of local tax offices ‘unrealistic’, watchdog says

  281. yesindyref2 says:

    So the totally dishonest and disreputable Herald starts an article early in the morning with the headline:

    Sturgeon rules out second referendum – but only for 2017

    and then after a load of comments are made on the basis of that meaning, which is fair enough, changes the headline to:

    Polls force Nicola Sturgeon to rule out 2017 independence vote

    which is totally different in meaning – and a lie to boot.

    What a disgusting rag, the filthy depths of the chanty dyke. Tom Gordon as author but it’s probably not his fault, it’s some total disgraceful moronic muppet with zero integrity, respect, self-respect, or cause to have any self-regard, the lowest of the low.

  282. Clydebuilt says:

    Talking about a sick BBC. This morning for an example of a gender balanced cabinet KayE chose to go all the way to Canada ignoring Nicola Sturgeon’s gender balanced cabinet…… And not a single guest or caller pointed this out.

  283. Capella says:

    Jenny Laing and Willie Young off to the Stock Exchange to raise £370m in the name of the good people of Aberdeen. Casino Capitalism or sound investment opportunity?
    But not “tax the rich”.

    Aberdeen City Council leader opens London Stock Exchange –

  284. Fred says:

    Anent Corbyn & Co’s Federal UK solution, quite apart from Scotland, Britain justs incorporates part of a province of another country into a Federation of itself & that’s OK. No mention of the Irish Government or the people of the said six counties or people of the island of Ireland as a whole in this cunning Palmerstonian stunt. As if NI isn’t a big enough problem right now? Labour just haven’t a Scooby.

    English aristocracy, largely Norman/Breton/Picard & Flemish originally, with later admixture of Dutch plus numerous Stewart bastards being married into them. Anglo Saxon input can’t be large, the native nobility & landlords were replaced wholesale & what was left was only England in name, it became in effect a slave-state with the Anglo-Saxons left as hewers of wood & drawers of water!

    Interesting Orkney prog’ with reservations, phoney history, phoney Neil Oliver & his phoney accent. Does anybody actually talk like that?

  285. Ken500 says:

    The crooks on ACC should be put in jail. Greedy, lying time wasters. They have wasted £Millions of taxpayers money on grotesque wasteful projects. Ruined the City centre. Greedy liars. Refused a Gift of £80Million to predestrianise the City centre. May elections can’t come soon enough.

  286. I just caught up with John McKay’s Scotland Tonight programme.
    Baillie, Cole Hamilton and Fraser. Jesus wept.
    Patrick Harvie could hardly contain his derision, as these three lightweights spouted the most vacuous, pointless and irrelevant Better Together guff imaginable.
    Cole Hamilton is touting a revitalised Lib Dem Party standing on a rejoining the EU post Brexit ticket in a future UK GE, say in 2030?
    He announced that the Lib Dems in Scotland are calling for £500 million investment in education, only to be reminded that the SNP Budget is investing £750 million in education.
    Jackie Baillie beggars belief.
    She contributed nothing, other than the usual Scotland is pish compared with the rest of the UK, and SNP are Bad because they want an alternative to May’s Brexit, with the option of a second Referendum if May pulls us out of Europe completely.
    She quite literally contributed nothing to the conversation.
    What a waste of oxygen this woman is. But then again, there’s nothing nothing new there.
    And Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser, whose spectacular failure to be elected by any constituency over the past decade, and who slipped under the wire on the Tory Gravy Train List, spouted the usual tropes, and of course SNP BAD.
    I will never tire of observing that Scotland deserves better than this gaggle of Better Together anti Scottish dumbwits clogging up Holyrood.
    They are pointless and the obvious question was avoided again last night.
    What are the Lib Dem, Momentum Labour,and White Heather Club Tory plans to mitigate an English Hard Brexit?
    The answer is of course, they have no plans.
    They would all meekly roll over and perform the Dying Fly, and be meekly dragged into the international wilderness with May Johnson Fox Davis and Farage leading them.
    This madness has got to stop.
    Is there not one journalist, one broadcaster, who will break Unionist ranks and tell it how it is?
    Nicola Sturgeon heads a party which is the 3rd biggest at WM, she is the FM of Scotland, yet she gets the same, no strike that, less coverage than Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Tory Branch Office who came a very poor second with 21% of the vote in May 2015, and who, like that invisible man, Mundell, has no political clout Down There.
    Madness on stilts.

  287. Stu Mac says:

    @Robert Peffers

    I seem to have touched a sore spot. I’m not going to waste time with a point by point as you like doing – without really addressing my real point. And it is this: you seem to have a need to do down the old Labour party which actually did some good and twist yourself semantically to try to prove they didn’t. No party is perfect (though some are really bad). I could go back a few years and find some valid criticism of the SNP, in particular Alec Salmond. But I know the good points of the SNP well outweigh any criticism I could make – and they are in the past anyway. Why do you waste time doing this when it is today that counts? Are you so embittered you can’t allow even the slightest acknowledgement that one many decades ago they actually did some good things?

  288. Brian Powell says:


    A Labour Council ‘borrowing’ on the stock exchange. Pity the poor voters of Aberdeen. The money will be used to cover its mistakes and the rate payers will pick up the tab.

  289. Ken500 says:

    Labour’s legacy. The Iraqi War, banking fraud and tax evasion. The worse migration crisis in Europe since WW11. Trillions of debt.

  290. Capella says:

    @ Brian Powell – yes, in spite of their rhetoric in Holyrood, Labour seem to want anything but taxes on the wealthy. So we have PFI and bonds issues, and if they return to power, prescription charges, bridge tolls, bedroom tax, bail-outs for bankers, tuition fees for students etc etc.

    No socialism here – we’re Labour.

    Their “Federalism” is also a sham. Gordon Brown already delivered the most devolved parliament in the known universe.

  291. Macart says:

    @Socratese MacSporran

    All we and in fact the FM requires about now is patience, a steady nerve, consistency of message and an impeccable sense of timing.

    The work has been done by the FM and SG. The dominoes are all lined up. Ms May and the Westminster govt. will tip the first one over for us in March. 🙂

  292. heedtracker says:

    Wullie’s merry band of yoons are not just wrecking Aberdeen city centre.

    Wullie and chums £100+ million new office block in front of Marischal College, has completely obliterated Marischal College, one of the world’s great Victorian granite colleges.

    Its just one more Wullie Young triumph of yoon culture weirdness, as they blew over £100+ million leasing, then renovating, Marischal College from Aberdeen uni.

    Now you cant see it, behind Wullies new white elephant office. Wullie cant lease any of his latest white elephant but he has leased one floor to the Press and Journal, but he refuses to say for how much. Such is yoon culture in Scotland.

    No one in Aberdeen can work why exactly Wullie and chums decided to blow over £100+million on another white elephant business adventure either. Wullie wont say.

    As most of us know, re oil prices, there’s already a vast glut of shiny new office and retail space in and around Aberdeen and if anyone does ask Wullie why he jumped into such a saturated market, blowing £100+ million, Wullie laughs like a yoon basically.

    If you want to wipe the smile off the face of Aberdonians, mention Wullie Young and Marischal College.

  293. Fred says:

    @ Jack Collatin, gaun yersel kid!

  294. Andrew McLean says:

    Stu Mac says Labour not bad in the past:

    Yes it could be argued that labour in the distant past did have some good people, I cants say any different as members of my own family were members and Councillors.

    However the good they did was determent by the extent they were allowed by the parent organisation, and it also can be argued that the policy was to keep Scotland in subservience and poor, to better contain their electoral base.

    Also the old labour party was not willing to adopt changes in working patterns and employment opportunities as the unions controlled them with an iron rod.

    New labour and the champagne socialists now sitting in the lords were just all about what they could get for themselves, any good they did was an incidental byproduct, and an irrelevance to them.

  295. Lochside says:

    o/t ‘The National’ notes that Police Scotland has arrested seven more people ‘over the disorder’ at the Scottish Cup Final. They have now arrested 126 individuals.

    Sorry, but I can’t help thinking how the vigilance of the cops in apprehending a few folk dancing about on the pitch after winning the cup after a century, plus a handful of bams shadow boxing ,compares with the paltry number of arrests after the politically motivated and orchestrated riot in George Square post REF. No one was charged with conspiracy for this disgraceful disorder in the centre of our biggest city, yet many exuberant fans carried away by the legitimate event of the Cup victory are now being lumbered with criminal convictions. And I bet many are first offenders.

    I support neither of the teams involved, but I will point out one group’s adherents figured exclusively in the George Square riot. We have an English and Met dominated Police Scotland. Can we trust them to police and investigate ‘black flag’ actions by Unionists and UK Gov agencies? I hae ma doots.

  296. galamcennalath says:

    5 Reasons why Scotland would thrive as an independent nation

    5 good business and commerce reasons, fair enough. I can think of many more social and moral reasons too!

  297. Luigi says:

    heedtracker says:

    10 January, 2017 at 11:28 am

    If you want to wipe the smile off the face of Aberdonians, mention Wullie Young and Marischal College.

    The new exhibition centre is complete madness. The original AEC at Bridge of Don could not make money, so the Red Tory solution? “Let’s make an even bigger, more expensive one!”.

    What’s more, the site where they demolished the listed Strachcona House lies alongside the railway line. Now surely someone at the council would possess the wit to realise a real opportunity to integrate transport with a dedicated Exhibition Centre railway station? Nope, we expect to much from Aberdeen City Council. This is the council that built a new airport at the opposite end of the runway from the railway station. Clever. Barely a brain cell between the lot of them.

    They truly are, utter, utter donkeys.

  298. Tam Jardine says:

    Re Corbyn’s abandonment of labour’s stance on free movement. Whenever the ground shifts (and it did when Corbyn signalled he was going along with Brexit just as it has now he thinks we can be better out of the EU) I check Kezia’s twitter.

    Tumbleweed. Always tumbleweed when the question begs to be asked: and what do Scottish Labour make of this?

    The earnest voice in Holywood, shaking with emotion in outrage at our leaving the EU just can’t bring herself to get behind the SNP. But she can’t abandon her principles like Ruth Davidson has done so we get silence. That is not the action of a leader.

    Slab can back the SNP, cast off their pro EU stance and get behind Corbyn or declare their own position but they take the cop out route and you get this silence.

    And yet if John Mason tweets something or a train is late or there is some angle on an nhs stat Kezia is the first to fire in and make her views known.

    The views on a second referendum have been expressed endlessly (something that is not imminent) but Scottish labour cannot be allowed to duck this, the pressing issue of today.

    It must be a hell of a time to be a slab member- did the make the latest batch of cards out of titanium? That can be the only reason the last few havenae been ripped up

  299. schrodingers cat says:

    @sensibledave says: 9 January, 2017 at 5:01 pm:

    ” … Where she has the advantage over Ms May is that Ms Sturgeon’s “supporters” seem to take everything she says as “gospel”, hang on her every word and assume that she has got everything under control. NO politician in England has ever, or will ever have that degree of unflinching support. It ain’t the English way!”

    thats because nicola isnt a politician at the head of a political party. she is the leader of an independence movement. such people are remembered in historical contests, especially i they win.

    the smaller indy parties in scotland failed to realise this as well, any attack, however small and even justified on the snp is seen as a direct attack on the independence movement, jumping on the snpbad bandwagon. In normal circumstances such minor attacks by political parties on other political parties are seen as run of the mill and dont generate much notice, but we are not in a period of normal circumstances, the yes campaign is still ongoing.

    Not every snp member agrees with every snp policy, eg, i dont much like the monarchy, but for the greater good of the yes movement, we are all pragmatists.

    it is this lack of pragmatism and the inability to put aside minor differences between themselves which has given the impression that they are willing to put their own party politics before the greater good of the movement. This has been the downfall of solidarity, ssp, rise, ric, the greens and now bella. Had they all realised this and toed the line, the yes movement is more than big enough and powerful enough to have propelled them into far greater positions of power than they now hold.
    but they didnt and the movement punished them for it.

    we are now coming up to the le in may, and it has been pointed out by more than one commentator that giving a 3rd vote to these smaller parties wont do any harm but is very unlikely to do any good.

    however, the reverse is not the case. if the smaller indy parties give their 2nd and 3rd votes to the snp, that can and will make a huge difference.

    so to the smaller indy parties i say this, if you believe in tactical voting, as you argued before, are you now willing to tell your own members to vote snp 2 and 3?

    we will find out in may (the results will show us clearly how your supporters vote) whether you are able to put the movement before your own party political interests.

  300. galamcennalath says:

    Tam Jardine says:

    The earnest voice in Holywood, shaking with emotion in outrage at our leaving the EU just can’t bring herself to get behind the SNP.

    Aye, Brexit is the final big test for Lab and LibDems. They have to show their colours soon – will it be duty to their voters or loyalty to their Union?

    There will be no middle ground, Nicola is working hard to ensure that there will be a straight choice, Indy or Union. Scotland ruled by Scots, versus Scotland ruled by English Tories. Or put another way, a democratic nation among nations, versus undemocratic colonial rule from an isolationist empire.

    We know the Tories will always opt of the latter, but what about Lab and LibDems when decision time comes?

  301. Desimond says:

    There will be no anguish or decision needing made by Labour…they will do exactly as Jeremy tells them for after all, they are one and the same party, no separate entity.

    I don’t know about the Lib Dems ( is the Scottish Lib Dems a stand alone party?) but I cant see Wullie Rennie changing lanes at any point. He will give some flannel about broader shoulders and devil you know and put his head firmly into the sand.

    The only area of contention is The labour deputy lead, if they split, then it could be hilarious but I fear theres more chance of Anas stepping in to take the place of shadow puppet Kez sometime before May 2018.

  302. Brian Powell says:


    Anas Sarwar only real interest is what happens in Westminster PLP, he will do whatever to get favour there again. Scottish voters are still voting fodder for him.

  303. Flower of Scotland says:

    @Schrodingers Cat 12.55pm

    Well said. What you said!

  304. Desimond says:

    Brian, yip indeed, but I reckon its his quickest way of getting to The Lords. The more Kez fads into the background the more he will step into the frame ( and we know it will be gratefully offered by BBC Scotland and STV) so I expect him to make his move.

    Kez has nothing to say and nowhere to go, Sarwar can play pretend “man with ideas” knowing it wont matter, he will never get to enact them but they will make good sound bites and increase his poll numbers.

    That’s how bad Labour have gotten but after the Scottish electorate physically elected Ruth and Wullie then I honestly have no idea what goes through the populations head at times.

  305. Socrates MacSporran says:

    This if Off-Topic

    Just been reading in the Herald that some original version of a declaration King Billy mde to the Scots has gone missing.

    Not once in the below the line comments is there the suggestion that this loss is the fault of the Scottish Government.

    Very strange, are the usual suspects having a day off?

    Or, maybe Murdo “Queen’s XI Fraser” has borrowed it.

  306. dakk says:

    @ galamcennalath

    ‘We know the Tories will always opt of the latter, but what about Lab and LibDems when decision time comes?’

    Slab and SLibDems are creatures of Westminster.

    All their empty rhetoric about everything else is just posturing and window dressing.

    They are not interested in EU or Scotland,other than how they can use them for their Westminster ambitions.

    BritNats to the core.

  307. Smallaxe says:

    Flower of Scotland: Peace Always

    Glad that the link helped, did you decide to send it?

  308. galamcennalath says:

    dakk says:

    Slab and SLibDems are creatures of Westminster. … They are not interested in EU or Scotland …. Britnats to the core.

    Yes, I think that will inevitably be the official line of the North British branches because they have no autonomy whatsoever.

    However, both have hemorrhaged voters and activists because of all that. A small number of ex politicians have come out for Indy.

    I still hold out hope that come IndyRef2 some standing politicians will also jump across the divide. Just enough to make the rump of those two parties look divided on the issue would be perfect.

    It would be a huge step forward for IndyRef2 to look as if it wasn’t split strictly on party lines. Officially, it will be, but a Labour for Indy with a bit more prominence would be good.

    A tipping point would be if it looked like YES was the winning side to be on.

  309. Smallaxe says:

    Received today:

    Local Voice: Colin Smyth MSP for the South of Scotland Region. Annual Report 2016/17.

    Colin supports many projects in my Area, mainly this is done by standing outside of various buildings holding both hands over his crown jewels.
    He can also hold a little spade of dirt beside a tree being planted.

    He can be relied upon to stand beside local place signs and look important.

    Good to know I’m in safe hands…No..wait..He’s covering his crotch again.


  310. galamcennalath says:

    This is a good and timely call to unite ….

    “Yes is like any family – we bicker and we disagree, but we must stick together”

    Yes, we must work together from different angles to persuade a majority of Scots that Indy offers the best future.

    However, not only do we need a majority of voters, we also need an Indy majority in Holyrood to coincide with that. We have an Indy majority, but is tight, it could have been lost. it is important everyone in the Yes movement should work to ensure that remains the case.

  311. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stu Mac says: 10 January, 2017 at 11:01 am:

    “I seem to have touched a sore spot.”

    If you have it belongs to yourself, Stu Mac. Why would I, who has never been politically anything other than an SNP supporter have a sore point about the Labour Party old, in between or NU-Labour? They all are now what they have always been unionists.

    Never forget that Kier Hardie was a founding father of the Labour Party and instrumental in forming the United Kingdom Labour Party. i.e. A UNIONIST.

    ” … I’m not going to waste time with a point by point as you like doing – without really addressing my real point”

    So why did you not do so in the first place and thus not subject everyone to a totally pointless debate?

    ” … you seem to have a need to do down the old Labour party which actually did some good and twist yourself semantically to try to prove they didn’t.”

    On the contrary, Stu Mac. In the first place you will need to point where I actually said the Labour Party, old or new, never did anything good.

    In the second place the truth is that you seem to have a need to prove they did – even when I never said they hadn’t.

    ” … I could go back a few years and find some valid criticism of the SNP”

    Go on then – Let’s be having it? Or is it like your perception of what you think I said that I didn’t?

    ” … in particular Alec Salmond”

    Again then Stu Mac, Let’s be having them but see and mind it will require real facts and not your own, or the Labour Parties perceptions that are usually devoid of facts. Accusations are not proof of anything except someone is making accusations.

    Don’t even contemplate trotting out the MSM/Labour/Westminster idiocies about Salmond like the accusation that he claimed he had EU legal advice when the question he answered to asked if he had sought legal advice from his own SG legal advisors.

    ” … But I know the good points of the SNP well outweigh any criticism I could make – and they are in the past anyway”

    Thing is, Stu Mac – as yet you have not made any specific accusations of either Salmond’s of the SNP’s bad points. Just the usual vague hints and deflections.

    ” … Why do you waste time doing this”

    Maybe that is because I’m not the one picking the fight. You are the one accusing me of wasting time – I’m the one answering your accusations.

    ” … when it is today that counts?”

    Perhaps so but the problems of the Union go back a long way before the Union happened. Furthermore those who heed not the events of the past are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    “.. Are you so embittered you can’t allow even the slightest acknowledgement that one many decades ago they actually did some good things?”

    First of all I am in no way embittered with anything or anyone. In the second you still have not shown where I am supposed to have said that Labour never did anything good or right. Here’s a wee bit of factual evidence for you StuMac.

    As a boy I worked hard for Jack Kane, (Labour), to become a councillor on Edinburgh Corporation. Jack then became a Bailly. Later I campaigned for him on several other election campaigns.

    In 1972 Jack Kane (Labour), became the first Labour Lord Provost of Edinburgh. BTW: while campaigning for Jack I was an SNP member but no SNP candidates were standing against Jack.

    Now tell me where I claimed Labour never did anything good. Tell me what you think Alex Salmond did wrong and tell me where I exhibited bitterness against Labour?

    Until you do these things exist in only your own perceptions and have no basis in fact.

  312. schrodingers cat says:

    brilliant from derek bateman

    “Adam Tomkins tweets that Sturgeon must get back to the day job…a man literally with two jobs himself, both publicly funded”

  313. Nana says:

    Shock news…reporting Scotland is

  314. Robert Peffers says:

    @Smallaxe says: 10 January, 2017 at 3:26 pm:

    ” … Good to know I’m in safe hands…No..wait..He’s covering his crotch again.

    Laugh of the day there Smallaxe.

    A thought occurred, though, – perhaps it is the fault of such as yourself that he seems over sensitive about his dangly bits.

    It may be that he fears another kick in that particularly sensitive region?

  315. Lenny Hartley says:

    Nana shock horror on the lunchtime news they had a piece about the introduction of the baby boxes in Orkney, I would say it was nearly positive 🙂

  316. Nana says:

    @Lenny Hartley

    Goodness that is a shock right enough. I can not watch or listen to the bbc, my blood pressure used to go through the roof and the poor dog’s nerves were jangling!

  317. Smallaxe says:

    Robert Peffers:

    Aye mibbie thon loon shud be Feart 🙂

    Peace Always

  318. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana says: 10 January, 2017 at 4:03 pm:
    (on the last thread).

    “Shock news…reporting Scotland is“.

    There’s nae chance the BBC will tell us their audience figures. Anyone would think they are ashamed of them.

  319. Proud Cybernat says:

    Lies, Damned Lies and BBC Scotland…

  320. bladerunner says:

    talking to each other and putting a (wings over scotland) flag up.
    available from-“”, gets loads of attention. Best fiver
    av ever spent!

  321. schrodingers cat says:

    Braden Davy
    slab candidate who stood against alex in 2015, defects to ruthies

    I suppose after corbyns pro brexit speech today, it left slab a shadow of the real thing.

    this trickle will become a flood

    those slab voters who want to stay in the eu only have one option now, indyre2

  322. Lenny Hartley says:

    Nana , I said nearly positive 🙂 they did there best to get some negativity from the families, but they failed, worst they could get was that one family that had weans before didn’t need all the stuff in the box and shock horror the same family were not using the box as a crib!!

  323. Proud Cybernat says:

    Hear no lies…

  324. David Smith says:

    @Socrates McSporran. (3.01PM)

    I’m really, really sorry pal. I was caught short and I didnae hae any toilet paper… 😉

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top