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How to disrespect the electorate

Posted on September 01, 2016 by

More or less since the morning of 19 September 2014, the Unionist parties in Scotland have kept up an unceasing chorus of “You lost! Accept it!” directed at the entire Yes movement, but primarily the SNP (despite the SNP having never to date disputed the result or called for a re-run of the referendum).

Readers may not be entirely astonished to discover this morning that at least as far as Scottish Labour are concerned, that principle only applies to other people.

altdugdale

Because we’re pretty sure there’s already a name for when political parties set out an “alternative programme of government”.

The word traditionally used to describe that phenomenon is a “manifesto”, in which a party says what it would do if elected, and it’s usually issued in the weeks leading to a general election. (Though Scottish Labour have recently pioneered a new approach in which you don’t release it until people have already cast their postal votes.)

Voters then compare the manifestos of all the parties and elect the one they think has the best policies. It’s pretty much the fundamental building block of representative democracy. In Scotland it happened just four months ago, and Kezia Dugdale’s party was resoundingly thrashed into a humiliating third place behind the SNP and Tories.

(Dugdale herself was personally rejected by a margin of over 5000 votes in Edinburgh Eastern, but crept into Parliament anyway via the back door of the list system, having previously raged bitterly against such dual candidacies as dishonest and unfair.)

So with the electorate having declined to back Labour’s manifesto in the most unambiguous and unequivocal way possible, we’re not clear on what grounds Dugdale now feels able to demand that it be implemented anyway by the party that actually won the election.

Because pretty much all of the proposals in the slim four-and-a-half-page document (including cover) were already present in Scottish Labour’s 2016 losing manifesto:

– increasing income tax across the board (page 5).

– abolishing the super-popular Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act (page 57).

– a total ban on fracking (page 11).

– re-regulating buses (page 49).

– the demand for a Scottish Fiscal Commission (page 12).

– abolishing the Council Tax (page 9).

– the “Fair Start Fund” for education (page 21).

– the opt-out organ transplant system (page 33)

– the refugee integration bill (page 44)

– the trade union bill (page 18)

And so on. And also present in the 2016 manifesto (on page 62) and repeated today is an even more startlingly bare-faced attempt to subvert the democratic process:

parlref

Scottish Labour are still demanding that the party who wins an election – regardless of its mandate from voters – should be banned from ever nominating the parliament’s Presiding Officer or having a majority of convenorships on its committees.

There are currently 24 Labour MSPs at Holyrood, of whom 17 (or 71%) were explicitly personally rejected by the people of Scotland at the ballot box but whom Labour chose to force the public to employ and pay for anyway. Now, in addition to making voters have a load of MSPs they don’t want, Labour wants to bar people who DID get elected from holding positions of office, and wants the victorious party to abandon its own promises and implement the manifesto of one that got fewer than half as many votes.

(The SNP got over 2 million, Labour just 950,000.)

In short, Labour wants to frustrate the democratic wishes of the electorate so far as is humanly possible. The candidates and parties who lose, by however vast a margin, must be given seats and power anyway. The party that wins, meanwhile, must be hampered and obstructed and prevented from carrying out its manifesto at every turn.

It’s somewhat breathtaking that after being defeated narrowly in 2007, thrashed out of sight in 2011, and flat-out abjectly humiliated in both 2015 and 2016, Scottish Labour’s sense of arrogant entitlement apparently remains undiminished.

If losing 40 out of 41 MPs and coming third in Scotland behind the Tories doesn’t get the voters’ message across, readers might be forgiven for wondering what it’ll take.

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    1. MJC says:

      Treat all as having no memory at all!! Thats the strategy from these arses. Nothing to see here, move on.

    2. Ken500 says:

      Holyrood needs reform so 2nd rate rejects are not regurgitated.

      Westminster needs reform. So a Party that breaks electoral rules in 29 seats, does not get away with it.

    3. orri says:

      It’s kind of a “here’s what you could have won”

      https://archive.is/ts2hP

    4. Mosstrooper says:

      Yes, but what would Dumbledore do? we should be told.

    5. Alex Morrison says:

      Coming fifth after the SNP, Tories, Greens and Lib-Dems. Even then I don’t think they’ll get it.

    6. ScottishPsyche says:

      Not content with changing the rules to suit their agenda in their own party, the remnants of Blairite Slab want to change the Scottish Parliament too? Worked ok for them when they were in government with the LibDems though.

      In my manifesto-after-the-election I would tax that great socialist, JKR, at 95%.I’m sure she would not mind.

      Anyone got any other ideas?

    7. galamcennalath says:

      “Scottish Labour’s sense of arrogant entitlement apparently remains undiminished.”

      That really is the point here. SLab just cannot come to terms with their new role in Scottish politics as third place ‘also rans’. The fall from power is something they won’t accept.

      Their demise has been coming for at least a decade. It’s not some inexplicable mystery. Almost anyone on the street could give you half a dozen reasons why. Yet those leading the party just won’t listen. Their sense of entitlement and exceptionalism overrules all else. True BritNats in that respect.

    8. Mark Mair says:

      “sense of arrogant entitlement apparently remains undiminished” – reminds me of another Scottish “institution”, albeit one with a history of only 4 years.

    9. Macart says:

      Just WOW!

      I didn’t think it was possible, but apparently it is.

      Ignorance, arrogance, a sense of entitlement, a deaf ear to the public and a near catastrophic level of bad timing.

      Labour in Scotland have the whole package. 😮

    10. Proud Cybernat says:

      They are the Peepul. That’s why.

    11. Clootie says:

      A typical dug – demands attention, has no real purpose and you have to clean up after it.

      With one exception – a dug usually shows it’s love and loyalty to it’s own family instead of the next door neighbours!

    12. chris kilby says:

      Who cares? No-one’s listening to them anyway. No-one under the age of sixty, anyway. Labour literally is a dying breed in Scotland.

    13. Sharny Dubs says:

      The land of OZ springs to mind, never mind little Toto ….

    14. Rab Pollock says:

      Maybe the Branch Office should consider carving these onto a monolith of stone?

    15. Frank Wright says:

      Rev Stu asks:
      “If losing 40 out of 41 MPs and coming third in Scotland behind the Tories doesn’t get the voters’ message across, readers might be forgiven for wondering what it’ll take.”

      Perhaps the outcome of the May 2017 council elections?

    16. Robert Louis says:

      Nonsense like this comes from Labour, because of one thing – their sense of entitlement. They view it as simply ‘not right’ that they were trashed by the electorate. According to Labour, they have a divine right to run Scotland.

      Many have been saying this since 2007, but more than ever, Labour need to sniff the freaking coffee and wake up to political reality.

      With each passing day, Labour becomes less and less relevant in Scotland, yet still they cling to outdated policies and fervently oppose Scotland taking back control of its own affairs.

      Labour in Scotland, so 2007 ago.

    17. Flower of Scotland says:

      Labour in Scotland are terrified that they lose Councils in next years elections.

      Labour just don’t understand what has happened to the party in Scotland and because they are just another party on the right, they will try any trick in the book to keep what they think is Labour in Scotland,s entitlement.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Frank Wright says:

      “Perhaps the outcome of the May 2017 council elections?”

      I would truly love that yo happen. However, A’hae ma doots.

      Already we have seen how Unionist voters give their second, third preferences to each other on the STV council system.

      In principle, STV is simple. A candidate needs 50% backing to be elected. So 2nd, 3rd etc preferences are taken into account until someone gets the 50%.

      If we are to win strongly in May, we need to get voter turn out up. YES supporters need to realise it is important and vote.

      Otherwise, some councils will be the last place SLab retains power in.

    19. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Perhaps she should announce an alternative branch office.

    20. Marie Clark says:

      Oh good grief. Is this for real? Poor dippity dug, under the illusion that what she, or SLAB has to say is of some relevance.

      Aw, pair wee sowl. I think frankly, they’re mair tae be peetied than laugh at.

      Just more white noise eh, no one listens, nobody cares, and still they cannot understand that. They must think that we are as daft as they obviously are. Jeez oh.

    21. Artyhetty says:

      Does Kez know that we just had an election in May, that a manifesto is something you do before an election, and that Nicola Sturgeon is still First Minister. Thank god.

      Perhaps Kez is planning a coup! Though she seems incapable of organising anything at all, oh dear, clinging on for her job, sorry Kez, some silly stuff in the papers is just not going to do it. Labour branch in Scotland are the laughing stock.

    22. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Olivia Newton-John/ELO, ‘Xanadu’ (A Place Where Dreams Come True) –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDxcfTm1QTc

    23. heedtracker says:

      Nothing on really boosting Scottish commerce, industry, business, job and wealth creation either. Vote SLab, stay on your knees, watch BBC Scotland, bake a cake, pay more tax, shut the fcuk up.

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 4h4 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
      Scott Arthur Retweeted Duncan Hothersall
      Duncan is right: Some on the SNP want independence at any cost.

      Duncan Hothersall @dhothersall
      Shocking deprivation in Dundee. More shocking: @theSNP pretends indy is the answer. It would make things far worse.

    24. Iain Hamilton says:

      Excellent stuff Stu. The list scenario made me think “Sarwar – what ever happened to him?”

      A quick Google search returns…

      Nothing.

      Nada.

      Zilch.

      We need him to become more active. The best recruiter for Indy ever.

    25. Captmaxspacecat says:

      To be honest I never used to bother about the council elections. But a lot has changed in the last few years. So me and a lot of my friends will be voting next year. So tic tok labour

    26. Davy says:

      Well Scottish thingy labour is producing yet another set of “bum-wipes”, expect lots more before their head honcho election.

      They will need the bum-wipes when Corbyn gets back in.

    27. Greannach says:

      Is that what she learned at Band Camp in Kentucky?

    28. Scott says:

      U-Turn over Holyrood Committee rules 31St Aug.

      Now this.
      Holyrood aide rules changed over conflict of interest fears

      I thought these rules have been in place since the start so how can it be the SNP U-TURN

      Mike Rumbles of the Scottish Liberal Democrats also said the government had been “shamed” into a u-turn.he of the fourth party.

      What a shower ok for them when in power eh.
      As for Dug who cares it will all come from London.
      Wh

    29. dakk says:

      Slab are likely just trying to make themselves appear relevant and justify their presence in the Scottish Parliament.

      Of course they are comfortable in the knowledge that their associated Yoon media will do everything in their power to facilitate this.

    30. Jim Mitchell says:

      She only does it for the laughs, I mean she can’t be serious can she?

    31. Bob Mack says:

      An object demonstration in how to stay relevant whilst trying to diminish your oppositions ability to govern. That about sums it up.
      However the voting public are also relevant. They will not forget or forgive SLAB.
      Their vote now comes from unionist Tories who will soon tire of that particular game.

    32. Scott says:

      U-Turn over Holyrood Committee rules 31St Aug.

      Now this.
      Holyrood aide rules changed over conflict of interest fears

      I thought these rules have been in place since the start so how can it be the SNP U-TURN

      Mike Rumbles of the Scottish Liberal Democrats also said the government had been “shamed” into a u-turn.he of the fourth party.

      What a shower ok for them when in power eh.
      As for Dug who cares it will all come from London.
      What a shower.

    33. You want more of your people on committees?
      Get more of your people voted in as parliamentarians then. Rocket science it’s not.

    34. Greannach says:

      I hear she’s going to be lecturing in a room above a pub rented out by former MP Ian Davidson.

    35. Macbeda says:

      If Kezia is the author of this then I think she may be heading for a breakdown to be honest.

      Nobody is that fecking stupid, surely.

    36. Roger Hyam says:

      I think what it will take to get the message across is for us to stop mentioning them. Simply by writing this comment I’m supporting their continued existence!

    37. Vambomarbeley says:

      I do worry about the wee soul. No one can be that thick skinned. Can they?

    38. David Mills says:

      This is padding for her CV “actions completed will leader” as with Jeremy save heart failure a shoe in to UK labour leader she not long for the role.

    39. Les Wilson says:

      Well slab just digs their hole deeper and deeper. I think it was channel four who just before Indy, the reporter with mike in hand was trying to get opinions on labour. A young woman was rushing past, the reporter shouted to her ” what do you think of labour?”

      Without missing a step she replied “Labour? awe fuck off!”
      The reporter turned and looked at the camera bemused.

      Well things have only got worse.Their rule in Scotland is well and truly broken.

    40. Les Wilson says:

      Should have said in last post, it was in Glasgow.

    41. Astronomy says:

      Is there any reason the list MSP’s can’t be voted into their respective order by party membership? Can’t imagine SLab members would have allowed some of the dead wood to return that did manage to return.

      Feels like it might make the whole Scottish version of PR that little bit more democratic. So could the Scottish Government change this part of the voting system or is that another power we don’t have?

      (Pretty sure the answer to that is no; the voting system is controlled by Westminster.)

      Posting again due to “You are posting too quickly. Slow Down.” response so apologies if it appears twice. Not sure I could post any slower, I’m on roughly one post per year at the moment…

    42. heedtracker says:

      Another day of SLabadabadoo UKOK nonsense. Fair enough that BBC Scotland twerp has no interest in the actual how and why of future Scottish wealth and job creation, just take your handout, vote SLab, say thank you England and shut it.

      Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
      Muriel Gray ?@ArtyBagger 3h3 hours ago
      Muriel Gray Retweeted J.K. Rowling
      Angry people, looking for someone to blame for our woes. Don’t pick on full tax-paying left wing philanthropists.

      J.K. Rowling @jk_rowling
      Alan, I already pay full tax. I have nothing to fear from Corbyn except the destruction of the Labour party.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      Unionists are very fond of putting a number to the cost of Independence and even if we accept their number they increase it daily but what they don’t like to do is put a number on the cost of staying in their Union which is only ever counted in hindsight after they’ve made yet another mess of things

      And after that number has been counted and proved wrong they still insist it would have been better than Independence and they double the number they first thought of to demonstrate the original assertion

      There seems to me no question that the numbers game has nothing whatsoever to do with why people want to stay within the Union
      Which brings me to folk like Kezia Dugdale who although behaves like an unnaccepting idiot, really isn’t, she couldn’t possibly be (Could she?)
      So what is it that keeps basically pretty normal people from accepting simple truths when presented with them

      Unionists don’t even like their own maths or opinions on the subject because whenever they’re reminded of them they immediately invent and mount a completely different argument as to why they didn’t change their minds but the circumstances they originally argued for the day before yesterday have been re evaluated in the light of well, they were wrong, but that’s not what we’re saying, they’re quick to point out, followed by a SNP Baad because anecdote

      The Tories are obvious and there’s really no need to even bother trying to work them out, but the Labour folk do puzzle me, and I’m not talking about the Labour party but the ordinary voter who used to think pretty much like the rest of us until their party went down this road of hatred and fed it via the media to it’s members, I mean this was the party of renationalisation of everything which would have cost infinite amounts of cash but they didn’t seem to care about that, yet all of a sudden we’re asked to believe they care passionately about the cost of running their own country and it’s somehow a barrier to doing it

      So NO I don’t believe for a second that Kezia and her chums believe that Independence is bad for Scotland because of numbers there’s another reason and it’s time for Ms Dugdale and those chums to start being honest and who knows, the electorate might even like it

      Even though they don’t like her

    44. Smallaxe says:

      The only people who have an entitlement in this country are the people of this country,no one in Westminster listens to
      our elected representatives,we have no veto,we are now
      officially “Suffrajocks”.Be at Glasgow Green on the 18th of
      September.

      Fill the Green and fill the streets.This is no longer about
      party politics it’s about people,people who want to live,work
      and bring up there families in what is and always has been a
      beautiful and intrinsically valuable land.Scots and Scots by
      choice do not want to fight war’s (invasions) for other countries.We will fight and fight well against anyone or any
      country who dares meddle with us,but we will not and should
      not fight to satisfy the greed and avarice of other nations.

      Time is short,we have to wake and shake the apathetic and the
      complacent out of their stuporous slumber and make them look
      at what is happening to our Homeland.

      Things can only worsen if the present situation is allowed to
      continue,only people and lots of them can stop it.That means us.

      We are not a shower of Drunken,tight fisted welfare freaks
      that we are so often portrayed as.No more shall we put up with
      that portrayal.We will show what we have always been,kind and
      generous hearted folk who want nothing more than what is
      rightfully ours and to live in peace with our European neighbours and the rest of the world.Peace is worth fighting
      for. If you are a big tree, I am a Small Axe.

    45. Holebender says:

      If I could offer advice on how to vote in next year’s council elections it would be this; don’t give any of your preferences to any unionist parties. You’re under no obligation to vote for all the candidates in order so you should stop ranking them when you run out of indy supporters to vote for.

    46. heedtracker says:

      “When people ask me what difference a Labour Government would make here in Scotland, I ask them to look just look at what Sadiq Khan has already delivered in London. There, the first 100 days of administration has been a frenzy of activity.”

      Dugdale in Labour list.

      If only Scots could just be like Londoners, vote Kez for lots of frenzied activity. On balance, Khan is also a ferocious JC hater like Kez so that’s probably Dugdale style networking, because she doesn’t say what his frenzy of activity actually is, other than not being BoJo, and not a Corbynista either.

      And oddly enough Major Khan also gets really lovely tory BBC London led media er, love too. Funny that.

    47. DerekM says:

      Haha oh dear looks to me like Kez is setting out on a campaign to hold her position as slab branch office head cringer.

      Unless she has completely forgotten that we just had an election that could be a possibility well she has proven she is not the brightest lol

      I wonder what her boss JC will do once he gets the blairshite red tory coup over and done with will he try to sort out slab red tories and more importantly does anybody care in Scotland lol

    48. Dr Ew says:

      Very unfair article. Kezia is only trying to make amends for the woefully late publication of the 2016 manifesto by putting out the 2020 version very, very early.

      The poorlassie can’t win!

    49. manandboy says:

      Kezia Dugdale has become probably the most tragic figure in Scottish politics. She will be comforted however by the sight of those in the opposition benches at Hollyrood who are just like her.

    50. Effijy says:

      Breath taking!
      Dipity Dug should really wear a Clown’s outfit.

      I’ve never known a party leader make a fool of themselves with such frequency, and I include Screaming Lord Such of the Raving Loony Party.

      WoS had a You Tube link to some of her top 10 greatest blunders, but it looks like she has embarked on making it the Top 50 most embarrassing political gaffs.

      Her parents must be sending her job applications to get her out of public sight.

      Kez, when the public continually reject you and your party, and your so called policies, it really does mean that you don’t get any say in how Scotland or England is run!

      The BBC even have to distort her ramblings to try and find some degree of credibility for their propaganda programmes.

      The girl must be hoping for a Neil Kinnock type package, where no one wants you to lead the country, so you get a non-elected £Million per annum job in Europe.

      You are not a Politician. You are an Imposition!

    51. mumsyhugs says:

      Labour have a track record for this sort of thing – look at their own current leadership election! They don’t know the meaning of democracy and respecting the democratic process!

    52. Tinto Chiel says:

      Incredible to think they got as many as 950,000 votes. “Where I am”, that’s close to a million.

      A million: think about it.

      How many will come over to the Bright Side once they realise Perpetual Tory Night is approaching?

      Or how many will insist on going down clutching their bowler hats, wreathed in the Butcher’s Apron?

      That’s quite a pre-manifesto manifesto form Labour. Reminds me of that rare pirate Prince single,”This is what it sounds like when dorks lie.”

      Vote for Labour? Honestly…….

    53. handclapping says:

      I’m confused; I thought Ruth Davidson of the Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition Party was the Tory SMSM go-to girl. What happened to the “Bring It On.” lassie? She was good

    54. Brian McKay says:

      I suppose SLab have to issue statements every now and again just to remind people they still exist (just). It’s a pity for them that they just don’t have anyone clever enough to come up with new and sensible ideas. Hence the regurgitation of the nonsense that was rejected by the electorate just four months ago.

    55. Another Union Dividend says:

      O/T Regarding Private Eye article on Stephen Daisley.

      I can exclusively reveal (via Google) that “Ratbiter” is one Nick Cohen a columnist for the Observer and like David Aaronovitch and Daisley he has campaigned against Islam and been outspoken in his support for the war in Iraq.

      Cohen was one of 200 public figures who were signatories to a letter to The Guardian opposing Scottish independence in the run-up to the 2014 referendum.

    56. Rev, I envy your patience in forensically taking this tawdry piece of ordure to bits. Over on WGD I dismissed it as ‘nonsense’. The woman just doesn’t have the intellect or political nous to manage the Tea Fund, never mind Scotland. The thought of that is simply quite ridiculous, as I’m sure many of her colleagues believe.
      Perhaps this is Roden’s opening salvo?
      Smallaxe @12.33. Stirring stuff, Oh Bridge Builder of Gretna.
      September is gonna be fun.
      Scots Wha Hae !

    57. Inverclyder says:

      James Kelly MSP for Scottish Labour Leader as he’s the man to lead them to even greater success!

      Should we start a petition?

    58. HandandShrimp says:

      It is a bit like Ali G’s alternative Queen’s Xmas speech without the humour.

      What will be interesting will seeing how much of this they still want to do in 2021 because this was not a winning package in 2016.

    59. Jas says:

      With the coming of the Scottish Parliament came the chance for the SNP to at last to have an effective voice rather than being ignored and mocked at WM. As Dalyell pointed out recently most of SLab’s big beasts had no real love for devolution or any form of home rule. It was pure expedience to keep the Nats at bay. They then filled the Parliament with lesser beasts and called it The Scottish Executive. When the SNP formed their first minority Government they demonstrated to the people what good government looks like. Labour in Scotland was then exposed as a charlatan sub-unit of the Westminster franchise. Nothing’s changed.

    60. HandandShrimp says:

      Inverclyder

      Yes! That would be amazing. We shouldn’t forget that they picked Kezia because she was relatively good. Someone like Kelly would be a gift. A politician fuelled entirely by incoherent rage against the SNP.

    61. This is democracy Labour style

    62. Proud Cybernat says:

      This is not what Scotland voted for…

      http://imgur.com/a/9H95J

    63. G H Graham says:

      “We always planned to publish at this time.”

      – Labour’s north British branch office’s excuse for publishing their manifesto AFTER the postal ballot papers had been sent out.

      To be filed alongside “I always planned to lose the Lotto this weekend so ironed a work shirt Sunday afternoon.”

    64. heedtracker says:

      Cohen was one of 200 public figures who were signatories to a letter to The Guardian opposing Scottish independence in the run-up to the 2014 referendum.”

      SLab no doubt think or believe that the relentless BBC Scotland led media SNP monstering, will wear Scots down eventually. That’s partly what makes BBC England’s full on JC monstering quite interesting. A class on class battle of broadcasting, the working classes of England dont vote, it works, vote red tory and also explains the red tory freak out up here, sit down J, you’re rocking the boat. JC’s probably no different from every Crash Broon though.

      But you cant really blame SLab for believing their own BBC Scotland propaganda. Just caught BBC r4 lunchtime news where that pack o toryboys think its fine to give Teresa Thatcher’s campaign manager a good 10+ minutes to explain what wonderful, brilliant and clever tory Teresa Thatcher really weally is. And its all on the sucka licence payer’s ticket. Sam Olsen’s the name, planet toryboy’s the game.

    65. Smallaxe says:

      @ Jack Collatin:

      Jack I enjoyed your posts on the last thread,yourself and a few others had me engrossed in the reading of them.What started as a marginally insipid subject developed into some
      very interesting and at times amusing posts.Hope your head cold is better,although it did not stop you truffle hunting.

      Here’s to us “Wha’s like us,damn few n’ their awe deid. 🙂

    66. Grant says:

      Labour Logic

      Ask electorate > SLab agree with answer? > Yes > No right to ask electorate again > Loser to cease being

      Ask electorate > SLab agree with answer > No > Loser to continue campaigning on issue > Abandon all sense of hypocrisy

    67. paul gerard mccormack says:

      ‘If losing 40 out of 41 MPs and coming third in Scotland behind the Tories doesn’t get the voters’ message across, readers might be forgiven for wondering what it’ll take?’

      Now that is the $64,000 question.

      I have watched and listened to Kezia now through all her various manifestations since she first appeared on the political scene.

      I have concluded that unfortunately she can’t even be described as being woefully deluded as I have never seen any evidence to date of a central nervous system (i.e. the physiological complex of nerve tissues that controls the activities of the body. In vertebrates it comprises the brain and spinal cord).

      I do believe this also covers the full gamut of human emotion i.e. SHAME, or in her case that she is positively SHAMELESS.

      Now that then begs the question, is she human? or are we looking at something like V?

    68. Alan Crerar says:

      This Labour sideshow is just the preliminary shakedown for the final battle (Joel 3:9-17*) of good against evil, Scotland against the Tories/Unionists. Labour’s failure has cleared the field for the Unionists to coalesce around the Scottish Conservatives for their final struggle against Scottish Independence. And I do mean final. This will be their last hurrah. Armageddon is nigh!
      *(Though not a believer, I find the following biblical quotes helpfully prophetic.)
      I. IN THIS BATTLE EVIL WILL GATHER ALL ITS AVAILABLE ENERGIES….
      II. IN THIS BATTLE EVIL WILL TURN MANY USEFUL AGENCIES INTO DESTRUCTIVE INSTRUMENTS…
      III. IN THIS BATTLE EVIL WILL PRESENT ITSELF AS NATURALLY READY FOR DESTRUCTION…
      IV. IN THIS BATTLE THE NATURAL AND HELPFUL AGENCIES OF THE UNIVERSE SHALL AID THE DEFEAT OF MORAL EVIL.

      Get ready, guys….”the Lord helps those who help themselves.” (Yeh, ok Rev, not biblical, but apposite none the less)

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      @DrScottThinks
      Where as your One Nation British nationalist outlook denies the people of Scotland their right to development, which I think is frankly vile.

      @dhothersall
      Have you no self-respect man?

      @Gerry Hassan
      I don’t really care what you think as you are apparently wedded to One Nation English socialism. Vile!

    70. Haggishunter says:

      Pure entertainment. Slab have made an erse of themselves, they even had the backing of the BBC in Scotland until the last Scottish election, when they saw the writing on the wall and backed the Tory’ as they’re great hope of saving their union.

    71. heedtracker says:

      More Slab oddity, Deputy Rowley says “I believe there is a way forward that is in the best interests of the Scottish public and that is Home Rule and the detail of that needs to be discussed and carried forward in the coming months,”

      Is Home Rule for us on the Dugdale “manifesto” but just don’t disagree with him or “I take it you are no longer a Christian given the badness you openly display towards fellow human beings.”

      http://archive.is/d4jfA

    72. NiallD says:

      After being laughed at, at the leadership hustings and Owen Whatsisname saying she was a good Dug, Kez has obviously thought that, after not hearing a peep from her for ages, she had better do something.
      Obviously the way to do that is pick a few already chews bits from the manifesto and regurgitate them onto the floor.
      Bad Dug!

    73. bugger (le Panda) says:

      “Dugdale herself was personally rejected by a margin of over 5000 votes in Edinburgh Eastern, but crept into Parliament anyway via the back door of the list system, having previously raged bitterly against such dual candidacies as dishonest and unfair.”

      let us call it for what it is,

      The Unionist Welfare List.

    74. heedtracker says:

      O/T but lovely to see and never will be seen on the usual channels.

      http://www.andymurray.com/feature/murrica/

    75. call me dave says:

      Och! It’s her turn today after Rennie’s huffy fit with Sturgeon last night and Ruthless the day before that.

      All bad halloween apples bobbing up to the surface for a gasp of oxygen on Auntie’s BBC. Just push them all down again. 🙁

      Where you hear federalism from Rowley look for a hand up his working parts… courtesy of Gordon.

      PS:
      European funds to boost Scottish fishing projects

      https://archive.is/JtfcB

    76. call me dave says:

      @heedtracker

      Enjoyed that. Haggis with everything! 🙂

    77. MJT says:

      @Heedtracker

      Sometimes the world of Scottish politics gets me down…but those two of minutes of Andy Murray cheered me right up.

      Haggis on his pizza. Quality.

    78. call me dave says:

      Strictly speaking another load of Balls.

      https://archive.is/Fv1OT

      Break over back to work… 🙁

    79. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 1 September, 2016 at 10:30 am:
      “Holyrood needs reform so 2nd rate rejects are not regurgitated.”

      I believe the system, although slow, will sort Holyrood’s dearth of democracy out in due course, Ken500.

      The electorate, after all, do have the final say in the matter. Furthermore all the present signs point to the electorate increasingly rejecting those who, when in power, have abused the privilege of governance granted them by the electorate of Scotland.

      Which is the main reason why the Tory party were rejected in the wake of Thatcherism. It is now plain that now Labour are also being rejected in the wake of Blairism and Brownism.

      “Westminster needs reform. So a Party that breaks electoral rules in 29 seats, does not get away with it.”

      There again the Scottish electorate will have the final say too. The Tory party at Westminster boasts only one rather pathetic example of Unionist lying, arrogant scumbags.

      I believe we may also ignore the other, (what was their title again)?

      It began with a letter, “L”. Lier? Limmer? Losers? – Oh! Wait! “LibDem”! Yes – that’s it – the LibDems are also a spent force in Scotland.

      Having said all that, Scotland does really need an effective opposition party, or parties. They just won’t be the Tory, Labour or LibDem parties. That choice is not the province of politicians. It is the sole province of a majority of the Scottish electorate who I believe will ultimately do the right thing and eliminate such problems.

    80. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      So the guy on Radio 2’s Vine show this afternoon says this:

      “We need to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall, Jeremy.”

      “Why’s that?”

      “Keep the Scots out of England, Jeremy. They beat me up in Blackpool.”

      He voted Brexit. Quelle surprise.

    81. McBoxheid says:

      ScottishPsyche says:
      1 September, 2016 at 10:45 am

      Anyone got any other ideas?

      I would ban the butcher’s apron at football matches. If Celtic get punished for flying a Palestinian Flag, why doesn’t Rangers for fying the UJ?

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clootie says: 1 September, 2016 at 10:57 am:

      ” … a dug usually shows it’s love and loyalty to it’s own family instead of the next door neighbours!”

      Aye! Clootie, that particular trick is the ploy of the domestic cat.

      You won’t get dogs acting like they are lost, sitting on a stranger’s windowsill looking pathetic, cute and helpless. Mewing pathetically as if they were half starved and abused or abandoned by a previous owner.

      The reason being that you own your dog but your cat owns you.

    83. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “Keep the Scots out of England,

      He voted Brexit.”

      Just thinking about your comment. I guess a fair number of English UKIP Leave folk who voted for anti immigration reasons, probably lump Scots along with Poles etc..

      When you hear rhetoric like “Scots want to leave England” or “Scots hate England” etc – all the confused attitudes there are around – it shows how blood and soil people think. And they seem to believe everyone thinks as perversely as they do.

    84. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Labour and liberals are now irrelevant. It’s the Torys we need to watch. A right bunch of immoral, back stabbing bastards who would sell their granny.

    85. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ms. Dugdale does appear to have a somewhat buccaneer approach to democratic process. Never mind, it’s only 18 days until International Talk Like A Pirate Day. 😉

      http://talklikeapirate.com/wordpress/

    86. Macbeda says:

      I’m not a member of any political party nor do I intend to join one.

      I just want independence for Scotland and its people even if we are financially poorer forever because it is the correct thing for us to have.

      Spiritually we will be rich forever.

      We need our country and our self esteem back.

    87. heedtracker says:

      Another JK Rowling story, this time she’s great, really great and does great lefty things too. No mention of her vote NO or else 2014 Scottish ref £1 million BetterTogether donation though, or even her tweeterising that follows now famous women hating and sneering UKOK reprobates like Euan McSpanner either. Funny that.

      “In 2010, Shami Chakrabarti described Rowling’s fifth book, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, as a metaphor for the war on terror, saying, “What’s wonderful is that [Rowling] got people reading this – about intrusive surveillance and torture, but also about solidarity and resistance and great human virtues.”

      http://archive.is/aEHgm

    88. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:
      “Scottish Labour’s sense of arrogant entitlement apparently remains undiminished.

      Yeah, but Slabber are more Cocky Rejects than Cockney Rejects and their message is more Oink! Oink! Oink than Oi! Oi! Oi!
      _____

      @ Ken500 (top of thread @ 10:30am)

      Completely agree with that first sentence Ken but as for the rest, i couldn’t give a rats erse about Westminster. Let them stew in their own cesspit of corrupted bile while we set standards and break ourselves free from them.

    89. Free Scotland says:

      Judging by that screenshot, it seems the STV pseudo-journalist, Aidan Kerr, could use some private tuition in English:

      “A total of proposed 13 bills will be put forward the Scottish Labour on Thursday.”

      You speaka ma languish?

    90. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      As per my post yesterday about using stickies to challenge and neutralse the BBC’s propaganda, I have now looked into costs for this (below). This is not about silencing the BBC – they can scream their propaganda all day long for all I care. It is simply about countering their propaganda message and lowering its impact down to a small peep. So Yoons – no histrionics.

      Project Peep the Beeb

      250,000 stickies = £2472.00
      Postage and packing for 1,000 stickies = £1.56 per bundle
      250 bundles = £390.00

      Project Total = £2,862.00

      This means we will require an Indigogo fund raiser for the above amount (which I am happy to set up). But before I go ahead and do any of that, we need a show of hands (at least 250) all over the country to be prepared to take a pack of 1,000 stickies. I am happy to co-ordinate the distribution. Naturally we can’t have folks all in the same neck of the woods. So, if you are up for this, then email your details (name & postal address) to the email address at the bottom of the page in the link below:

      http://imgur.com/a/KUamE

      The above image presents some sample label ideas I knocked up to get the ball rolling. These are not set in stone and I am happy to consider other possibilities. I don’t intend the thing to be designed by committee though as then it’ll likely end up grinding to a halt. So – I will make the executuve decision on this if required.

      Note: I won’t be proceeding with any of this until 250 distribution volunteers have signed up. Again – the email address is at the foot of the image (link above). When I get 250 nationwide distributors, I’ll take this to email and off-topic thread from thereon.

      Thanks to all in advance.

    91. G4jeepers says:

      So, is she saying she disagrees with the appointment of one of her own to presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament?

      Mibbee she n Ken hud a wee fawin oot.

      Speakin o Ken, anyone ken if there’ll be a march on Baw Bag Central on the 18th?

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      Proud Cybernat
      Could you post the spec. and the quote to OT? I might be of some help here.

    93. jimnarlene says:

      Dear BLis, sod off!

    94. Iain More says:

      You have had yer election Dug – Bugger Aff!

    95. Nana says:

      Dugdale the leader everyone flocks to listen to or not

      https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/771352869031256065?lang=en-gb

    96. call me dave says:

      Labour and Lib Dems to oppose second independence referendum plans

      https://archive.is/seLyO

      Not news then!

    97. galamcennalath says:

      call me dave says:

      “Labour and Lib Dems to oppose second independence referendum plans.”

      It’s early days. Just how hard the Tories’ plans are for Brexit isn’t clear.

      In that article Lab and Lib complaints seem to be that the SG aren’t focusing on a ‘middle way’ enough. It’s hard to judge what is ‘middle’ when only one alternate is clear ie Indy.

      I think once it becomes clear that the Tories are going to leave hard, walking away from most of the benefits of the EU, attitudes will change. Their approach will be far removed from Norway/Greenland solutions.

      Many in both Lab and LibDem will make the decision that the future UK is just too awful to stick with. Perhaps never as party policy, but voters, members and some politicians will cross the floor. I just can’t believe they will all opt for the far right Tory vision.

    98. Clapper57 says:

      To ‘regurgitate’ one definition being ‘repeat (information) without analysing or comprehending it’ sounds about right in respect to Labour policies who are eternally oblivious to the mood of the voting public.

      Rather than adapt to reflect political change they endeavour to pursue a course which has proven to be politically barren for them hence their failures in the last two elections. We all know the reason they cannot divert from their chosen path is that HQ dictates, and the rules are always restricted to unionist logic only.

      One of their many failures being tied to the HQ party is that they themselves are now forever tarnished and defined by their current treacherous actions against both their leader and members of the Labour party ( both new and old members), and lets not forget their other past crimes as Blairites . No one with a brain cell would believe that Keiza’s branch office is in anyway autonomous from HQ. The only distinction being geographical . To me they are tarred with the same brush and thus are one and the same.

      The branch office seem determined to flog a political dead horse while burying their political heads in the sand , and aside from independence , that for me is he best argument I can see for NOT voting for Labour ever again.

      If they continually refuse to see what is happening politically in Scotland and will not listen but just continue to try and dictate their misguided and unwanted policies upon the voter, which I see as detrimental to me and mine, then they represent to me not an alternative party but a party who I would definitely not trust to run my country and benefit Scotland and it’s people in any way.

      I do not want people and resources in my country to have to pool and share by having to pay more tax for the ‘privilege’ than the rest of the people within this (dysfunctional) union . Any extra tax I pay will be in an independent Scotland and to the benefit of my own country and it’s people.

      Keiza is ‘a dead woman walking’ politically because if Corbyn gets in , which it looks likely that he will, she will not be able to survive the hypocrisy of renewing her support for him so her ‘alternative programme for government’ is dead in the water and it will only prove that there is no end to how far she will go to self humiliation.

      Perhaps instead of Panic rooms Scots may need to install Scream rooms within their homes as I am surely getting to the stage where with each Labour announcement the urge to just scream is irrepressible.

    99. RogueCoder says:

      Apologies for the blatant off-topic advert, but Wings flags are in stock if anybody wants one for September 18th! 🙂

      http://www.ayemail.scot/store/?model_number=wings-flag

    100. Scott says:

      Drone flypast shows major M8 roadworks.

      I had a look at this good idea why don’t they do it with the new bridge A9 dualling Aberdeen bypass maybe let more people see how the SNP are getting things done this is not bad SNP news but I bet the Yoons will be against it.

    101. Rock says:

      paul gerard mccormack,

      “in her case that she is positively SHAMELESS.”

      I totally agree with that diagnosis.

      The same is true for the vast majority of Labour MPs, Labour MSPs and 100% of Labour Lords.

    102. McBoxheid says:

      Clapper57 says:
      1 September, 2016 at 5:27 pm

      The branch office seem determined to flog a political dead horse

      Any Political party that’s into flagellation, necrophilia and beastiality deserves everything it gets 😉

    103. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 1 September, 2016 at 2:37 pm:

      … “Keep the Scots out of England, Jeremy. They beat me up in Blackpool.”

      Of course they just beat him up because he was handy at the time and was just a completely innocent bystander.

      Aye!
      Richt!

    104. Truth says:

      I was thinking arrogance and entitlement as I read the article, and sure enough Stu nailed it toward the end of the article.

      Finger on the pulse. Meanwhile labour barely have a pulse.

    105. robertknight says:

      I’d like to nominate Dugdale for Convener of the North British Branch of the Flat Earth Society.

      What’s that you say?

      She already is?

      Bugger!

    106. winifred mccartney says:

      Kezia on Misreporting Scotland with the doughnut effect for tv cameras – you might actually think there were people listening but the wonderful unbiased bbc covers it up- with nifty camera work. Can you imagine if so few were listening to NS it would be headline news. MSM and bbc are labours life support system. Time somebody switched it off.

    107. Gordon says:

      Labour was in power in Scotland in all available offices for 60 years and elected and re-elected propagating the lie that the only way to get out of poverty was by voting Labour. Keeping the population poor and uneducated proved to be an electoral winner. The electorate finally rumbled them. This must have been a shock and they still can’t believe it. They still think they make the rules.

    108. Tam Jardine says:

      heedtracker

      So Shami C is now bigging up JK…. It is amazing how quickly you can go off someone. I thought her novels were all about the private school elite, set apart from the muggles because of their innate superiority- educated separately and forever looking down on the common clay.

      Her whole message is strangely incongruous with her left wing persona and the mask has long been disgarded. Her books are a worship of a kind of illuminatae. The regimes of revolutionary France, the Soviet Union, North Korea, revolutionary China etc etc would have been tough on her- fortunately she lives in tory uk where her worldview fits in just perfectly.

      I prefer H G Wells time machine… the common clay come with teeth

    109. HandandShrimp says:

      Felt a bit sorry for JK over on the Groaniard. She expressed some muted disquiet over Jeremy and is getting pelters. I think the article was running at over 8,000 comments the last time I looked. No blaming nasty CyberNats this time either.

    110. Dr Jim says:

      JK Rowling, JR Tolkein They’re not the same thing definitely not but I do know which came first

      JK Rowling story: Incompetent magic kid who gets everybody else to solve the problems and is being opressed by an evil governmental Magic Ministry that manipulates the press (the daily prophet) and is helped by Wizards and people they call mud bloods

      JR Tolkein story: Incompetent tiny person who gets everybody else to solve the problems for him with the help of a Wizard some Elves and some Dwarves all opressed by an evil overlord who rules everything with the help of ugly types born in the mud

      Aye she’s a brilliant writer that JR Hartley I mean Tolkein I mean Rowling

      Ah cooduv rut this if ahd been unemployed and hud the time tae read the good wan furst

      Other magic books are most definitely available, some of them not copies of others, not that this is of course

      Islands of Lawyers and all that, fortunately I have no money so am relatively safe from retribution plus I don’t do Twitter Mbwahahaha!!Cannae get me!!

    111. Onwards says:

      >Scott says:
      1 September, 2016 at 6:06 pm
      Drone flypast shows major M8 roadworks.

      I had a look at this good idea why don’t they do it with the new bridge A9 dualling Aberdeen bypass maybe let more people see how the SNP are getting things done this is not bad SNP news but I bet the Yoons will be against it.
      ————–

      I was surprised they actually showed that on the BBC.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37244055

      A nice bit of footage showing the scale of the investment into the central Scotland road network. Of course, the M8 should have been 3 lane motorway in the 1980’s.

      It was a real tragedy for Scotland that we didn’t get an devolved assembly back then. We would have had a prominent platform to pressure the Tories to invest some of the huge oil revenues directly into Scottish infrastructure.

      Perhaps there is a good argument with the recent GERS figures and apparent deficit to cut spending by up to 5% on every major department including NHS, and put the difference into road and house building to boost the economy. The recent oil price collapse can justify such a move.

      It would be unpopular in the short term, but set the stage for a more balanced budget going into another referendum at the end of this Holyrood term.

    112. heedtracker says:

      Severin McSpanner spin doctoring for Dugdale again. Nice photo Graun too.

      http://archive.is/ISb5o

      “How can we believe a word the Tories say when just eight weeks ago they sold the British public a proposition that even their Scottish leader accepts was a bunch of lies?”

      Standing BetterTogether with the tories and selling the Scottish public a bunch of UKOK The Vow lies Sep 2014, was all fine though.

    113. Valerie says:

      More vacuous bullshit from BLiS.

      What REALLY posses me off about this crap, is the monumental hypocrisy of the way they conduct themselves at Council level.

      Do you think for one minute, they have given up the convenership of a Council committee, or Provost, or Leader of the Council?

      We all know, and it needs better exposure, the amount of Labour/Tory alliances at local level, for the express purpose of strangling debate and participation by any SNP councillors.

      They make me vomit.

    114. heedtracker says:

      Tam Jardine says:
      1 September, 2016 at 7:17 pm
      heedtracker

      So Shami C is now bigging up JK

      Think that was in 2010 Tam. Cant see it’s changed though. If it wasn’t for her million quid BetterTogether donation, she’d be a reasonably benign red tory presence for us in her Edinburgh palace.

      Her work is a unique phenomena that clearly doesn’t translate into many SLab votes in Scotland and she’s probably not swinging anyone either way in England. She is clearly daft enough to let our tory BBC led media adulteration convince her that she’s a big political hitter but she’s probably made a massive fool of herself in the coming Corbyn Labour era. And she’s certainly not alone there in Labour.

    115. Robert Graham says:

      Kezia gets away with it because she knows half the voting age population in scotland are just plain stupid and dont give a rats arse who is in government how many times have you heard the remark Oh Politicians they are all the same. That is these fools answer to anything remotely resembling politics they seem to believe politics are for other people and won’t effect them i give up .

    116. Stoker says:

      Hey folks, remember Sarah & Sophie from 2014, those two brave girls who stood defiantly in the face of aggressive Unionist scum and their only weapon of choice was their Saltire?

      Well, they’re looking for our help and support so please help if yous can and spread the word. Lets help the girls smash their target. BTW, read the comment at the end of the article by some soorpuss named Scott Hamilton.
      https://www.gofundme.com/2m32fv8

    117. mike d says:

      Aye Robert they(liebor unionist scots)are not genetically programmed??

    118. Eckle Fechan says:

      Armando couldn’t make this shit up.

    119. Tinto Chiel says:

      Stoker: thanks for that.

      Those girls inspired my own daughters and their courage is an inspiration to us all. Don’t think the wee arra peepul knew how to respond. What were the police doing, btw?

      For the wiener btl: as Bugs Bunny would say, “What a maroon!”

    120. Cadogan Enright says:

      RT’s Kaiser report really disappointing tonight, repeating basic errors and establishment propaganda on a range of Scottish issues

      – relating the usual GERS and balance of payments untruths

      – that Scotalnd could not have used sterling without Westminster’s permission

      – that Scotand could not join Europe with. Balance of payments deficit of 3% or less

      It’s the first time the programme could have been run on the English Broadcasting Company and no-one would have noticed the difference

      It looks like poor research and programme production rather than deliberate bias – making the mistake of believing the State and Corporate Medi on Scottish-related issues

    121. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Nominations for ‘The Great Scottish Fuck Off’ will close on Sunday night.

      Please nominate your favourite Britnat/BTUKOKer on off-topic.

      We’ve had 69 names submitted so far, and two batches of twenty have been posted. More to follow tomorrow. Voting will begin next week, on O/T and via Twitter.

      Some surprising names have already appeared, and there are some properly startling omissions! (Genuine submissions only, and I already nominated Mundell, won’t add any others…)

      Don’t miss this chance to tell them – and one lucky winner in particular – where to go!

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/#comments

    122. Camz says:

      Simple rule to solve all future elections.

      No constituency candidate can be on a regional list.

      …waits for MSPs of all parties to nod approvingly…might be some time…

    123. Tinto Chiel says:

      Cadogan E: have to agree. Saw it in an aged neighbours and it really pissed me off. Seems they swallowed all the Carmichael we saw through ages ago.

      Worst bit was when Max said we should seek to get all our oil revenues due from WM back rather than become independent.

      Even RT swallows Britnat shit. No more Max for me, I’m afraid.

      Depressing, but then, if we don’t do it for ourselves, how can we rely on others?

    124. Croompenstein says:

      @Ian – The Great Scottish Fuck Off

      I’ve got a few to nominate(will probably add as deadline approaches)

      Bob Geldof
      Jeremy Corbyn
      David Torrance
      Alex Massie
      The Cunt who was Australian Prime Minister
      K**** H****
      Jackson Carlaw
      Piers Morgan
      Kelvin Mackenzie
      Ming Campbell
      Bliar MacDonut
      Tom Gallagher

    125. galamcennalath says:

      The Express really is the pits. Picked this up from WoS Twitter. Basically they are making a big deal about the FM not flying a Union Flag over Bute House. Well done Nicola. I never ever want to see a Butcher’s Apron at the residence of the leader of our country. Never!

      http://archive.is/d92qc

      It is entertaining, though! 😉

      The REAL news in this is that the German ambassador from London has made two visits to Bute Hiouse recently. Hmmm. THAT is what really pisses of the Yoons!

    126. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Croompenstein –

      🙂

      Many thanks for that selection of roasters.

      Torrance and KH have already been nominated, but – astonishingly – you’re the first to finger Bliar McBlowfish, so that was a relief! (Wouldn’t be the same without him, eh?)

    127. Tinto Chiel says:

      We missed “Parps” MacDougall?

      How did that happen?

      And then it came to me: Muriel Gray. What about Muriel Gray? She seems to hate Gaelic road/rail signs.

      And sprinklers at the GSA, allegedly.

    128. Camz at 9.29

      There is no need for regional lists as a second vote. If the constituencies are grouped into regions as they are now and the votes for the FPTP lists are counted in regions you can provide a perfectly represntative voting figure that way. I wouldn’t let any candidate that didn’t stand for FPTP seat onto any list either. The system is being abused at the moment by parties using the list as a cheap way to get into parliament.

    129. Kevin says:

      That STV picture at the top has Nicola with a ‘Are you still here?’ look. That’s how I feel about that person who happens to be in-charge of that kiddy-on political party called ‘Scottish’ Labour – is she still here?

    130. McDuff says:

      I would be very curious to know what an up to date poll would reveal regarding independence, the last one post Brexit giving the NO

    131. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Union flag. Found on plastic bags, plastic bowler hats and Ginger Spice. Why would any one show it respect. That was lost when the
      NF took it over.

    132. McDuff says:

      I would be very curious to know what an up to date poll would reveal regarding independence, the last one post Brexit giving the NO`s a 6% lead. If that result were to remain the same after all that has happened since Sept `14 I fear independence is a long way off if ever.
      I truly despair at my pathetic gutless countrymen and women who are happy to see Scotland flushed down the toilet and delivered into the hands of England rather than becoming a proud and prosperous independent nation.

    133. alexicon says:

      The bbc just can’t help themselves can they.
      On misreporting Scotland tonight, their reporter, James Cook?, was reporting on the electoral commissions criticism of both the leave and remain camps claims during the eu referendum.
      In summing up he said that the EC had commended the Scottish referendum campaign, but hold on said Cook, the unionists are saying that; what about the YES sides negative campaign?
      Yes the YES side’s negative campaign.!
      Did I miss something?
      Was it not the no side who run a negative campaign with project fear at the helm and the YES side who ran a blatantly obvious positive campaign.
      Cook just couldn’t resist spinning a lie.

    134. Tam Jardine says:

      BBC Reporting Scotland on the 1000th Syrian refugee to be welcomed into Scotland- after talking about the classes the Syrians are being offered to help them adjust they zero in on a guy who was very keen to return to Syria as soon as was safe. It seemed to be thrown in just in case anyone was starting to feel a wee bit of pride.

      Then we get 15 seconds of Angela Constance as Equalities Secretary. Then a wee bit of fear- no upper limit on refugees!

      Then a letter thanking the First Minister from a Syrian refugee except it is on the screen for such a short space of time you can barely read it (5 seconds) if you are not paying attention.

      And finally (whas like us?) the essential cringe- the same Syrian guy is asked about the shite Scottish weather which he describes as crazy… and as he starts to say why he likes the weather here the sound fades to nothing.

    135. galamcennalath says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 10:18pm

      Agree … Because I have suggested exactly the same myself on here 😉

      One vote. Then use regional FPTP totals to deliver list MSPs in the current manner.

      But want about small parties or individuals like Margo McDonald? Tough. Join a party. I think if we have a party system, then parties should put up candidates.

      Perhaps the fee per seat is high for small parties, so a set fee per region, or all Scotland, might let small parties stand.

    136. galamcennalath says:

      alexicon says:

      “Was it not the no side who run a negative campaign …. ”

      … classic Orwellian attempts to rewrite history and erase the truth.

      War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

      The Yoons seem to be at it everywhere. Like, Owen the other day claiming IndyRef promises were only to be delivered if Labour won. Aye, right.

      We will get much more of this. Clearly they think they can play on some people’s short memories.

    137. HandandShrimp says:

      galamcennalath

      Fantastic

      Anything that upsets that pathetic rag the Excess is solid gold. Go Nicola! 🙂

      I am sure they have better things to do – another one of their incredibly stupid weather alerts for example. It must be about time for another “impeding ice age” winter doooooom story.

    138. K1 says:

      Hi folks, getting this error message when I click on off topic, from link on this thread and menu on Wings main page?

      Anyone else having issues?

      ‘Error establishing a database connection’

    139. K1 says:

      Page is fine now, gremlin glitch nae doot. 🙂

    140. Struan says:

      The comments in the express page are discouraging but that pic of nic and may is truly priceless I’m proud of our leader

    141. Cactus says:

      MON The Great Scottish Fuck Off!

      Afterall.. it’s only words.

      Fuck the past, love the future.

      Cheers to ya Ian B.

      X (that’s the sign of Scotland)

    142. Cactus says:

      Love, that’s where it’s at..

      Smallaxe, ye ken whit am saying?

      Peace for our SCOTLAND.

    143. Cactus says:

      And Oreo’s @Oneironaut dude

      Dig it

      X

    144. Cactus says:

      How ye placed.. @the lovely Tjenny and @the lovely Scaredycat?

      Glasgow 18.09.16?

      S’gonna be groovy.. 😉

      X

    145. Cactus says:

      GENE FUCKIN’ WILDER!

      I love swearing.. now.

      It’s sooooo expressive.

      Get passionate about something.. try Scotland ?

    146. Sandy says:

      Re German Flag for the German Ambassador but no Butcher’s Apron for May.
      Come, come, Nicola, there must be an English flag somewhere or are they hard to locate?

    147. yesindyref2 says:

      This is absolutely ridiculous, and an appalling waste of Holyrood time. Labour are part of the opposition, NOT the Government. Their job is to oppose, but also to help improve legislation that they might not even agree with. The Named Persons Act being a prime example of where they could have contributed in respect for instance of the Data Protection aspect, but failed to do so.

      I would think somewhere around 99.9% of people in Scotland realise Labour are not the Government, and expect them to accept that and get on with their job for which they were elected. The 0.1% are Labour politicians and the more die-hard of their activists.

      Until they accept that they lost the 2007 election and all those since then we have:

      Labour MSPs: 1999 = 56, 2003 = 50, 2007 = 46, 2011 = 37, 2016 = 24, 2021 =12.

    148. yesindyref2 says:

      @McDuff
      I think that poll was a Yougov on behalf of some Unionist extreme rag, so don’t get disheartened.

      I think there was an immediate flush of support for Indy after the Brexit vote, with some surprising NO voters all in favour. If an Indy Ref had been able to be held in 24 hours flat, it may well have been a YES vote, with a good majority.

      But that’s cooled off, and I get the feeling those people have adopted a “wait and see” attitude. Firstly they want to see what the UK will be doing for Brexit, see how if there’s any possibility still of Scotland keeping the benefits of EU membership – and wanting see those answers to economy, currency, etc, that hung over from Indy Ref 1. I don’t get the feeling GERS alarms them, any more than before over the economy, and I also get the feeling they may accept that Scotland WOULD stay in the EU

      So my guess would be YES and NO fairly close, but undecided more the winner with around 30%. But it would need a specific category for “undecided” rather than the “don’t know” which could make people protest that they’re not stupid or uninterested – far from it. There also needs to be a “won’t vote” – I’ve seen some of these, probably sadly more from the YES side, though also from NO.

      So the wording of the opinion poll question would be vital, as would the possible answers. It needs all 5 answers to properly reflect the situation, perhaps with an exploratory second question – what’s your problem?

    149. manandboy says:

      Is it just me, or is England no longer a politically or economically stable country?

      It’s just that No voters may want to adjust their image of England to include the recent and ongoing turbulence there.

    150. Clootie says:

      Cactus 1:10am

      I’m passionate about not swearing. Your pleasure is my pain.

    151. Smallaxe says:

      @ Cactus:12:47.

      Got you man! Peace,Love and I Love Scotland:-)

    152. Cactus says:

      Morning Clootie, thanks for saying, no pain intended.

      Only passion, not pleasure.

      Once we’re independent, we’ll be fine.

      Respectfully.. Peace, Love and I Love Scotland.

      X

    153. McDuff says:

      yesindyref2

      I agree with some of what you say but my concern is that given all that’s happened since the referendum and, if as you believe both sides are neck and neck what on earth is it going to take to get the YES vote to 60%-70%.
      By far the biggest enemy to independence is the MSM and until we find an answer to counter that we are stuck in the mire.

    154. BJ says:

      Among these proposals “no zero hours contracts” are mentioned.

      In 1995 Tony Blair made a speech in Brighton where he promised to end zero hours contracts. That was more than twenty years ago. We now have Kezia’s gang rehashing the same promise. As big a lie now as it was then.

      TB also said “the simple truths – I am worth no more than anyone else, I am my brother’s keeper,” The people of Iraq must be distant cousins that he didn’t like.

      “They will lie about you, they will lie about me, they will lie about themselves”

      They’re still doing it Tony, only now the BBC, the press and the Labour branch in Scotland have joined in.

    155. Tam Jardine says:

      McDuff

      The MSM are certainly very good at suppressing support for independence and without their campaigning in the last 2 months (and in the absence of any credible political opposition to independence) we would indeed be looking at 60-70%.

      The press have been hammering the SNP all summer. If they had given any serious investigation into the imminent and very real material changes that Brexit will inevitably result in people across the land would be eating their cereal wi a shoogley spoon.

      If they were talking about job losses, about struggling to hire key NHS staff from within the UK, if they were talking about the end to protection to our multi billion value food and drink industry or the end to our employment rights, or the implications for medical research and scientific research, or the implications for the economy of the UK on the cost of holidays abroad or simply the stigma of living within a country that has rejected immigration on our national standing…

      If the media were discussing all these topics and countless more we could be looking at 60%+ but the MSM are studiously avoiding any discussion of the impact of Brexit on our country. Even now when Theresa May has started saying things that cannot be unsaid about immigration controls being a red line and brexit means brexit, no EU membership by the back door etc etc the MSM are still avoiding the reality.

      It is easier and more pleasant for them to run a piece of fantasy on Joseph Stiglitz or another fist pumping piece on the alleged deficit of the “Scottish Economy” or yet another unleashing of Gordon Brown talking about how we would need to double income tax to close the “black hole” in a puerile attempt to scare people who nothing about economics.

      The tactic is successful up to a point, however the public are wary of what they read in the papers and most don’t buy one at all now. There is almost no Scottish current affairs programmes on the telly now anyway. The audience just isn’t there anymore.

      How do we combat it? I honestly think that the public meetings and campaigning of the next indyref is the only way to really take it on. Although any attempts by the SNP to engage are to be welcomed I think we are still in the preamble for indyref 2.

      That said, we need to destroy the BBC’s credibility in the eyes of the public and a public and visible campaign to do so is key.

    156. davidb says:

      Re list system remarks.

      We are used to a fairly undemocratic system in the UK. That tradition of basically two parties swapping power every few years is actually not fit for purpose in a multi party society.

      The list system has suited the present governing party in the past. The same criticism some are levelling at prominent representatives of other parties could have been levelled in the past at us. Nicola was initially elected on the list.

      I would hope that when we are independent there will be changes to the electoral system. The voters need to be able to reject candidates who they dislike while still being able to vote for a party they like. We need to be able to have stable governments. And thats just for starters.

      None of the Greens was elected on the first ballot. But Mr Harvie contested Glasgow Kelvin on FPTP.

      It was the arrogance of SLAB in the past regarding list placings which saw their junior league team replace their second division team at Holyrood in the first place.

    157. BJ says:

      Nana @7:39

      The Brown shoes issue reminded me of an interview my daughter attended where she was told that women wearing “slacks” were not allowed in the office!!

    158. Angus Gother says:

      I think a sensible first step to reforming the voting system for Holyrood would be a rule that incumbent constituency MSPs may not be candidates on the regional list.

      When an incumbent constituency MSP loses the election, they have truly been rejected by the local electorate and shouldn’t be brought back on the list.

      Another rule might be to put other candidates who are contesting both list and constituency last on the list. I’m not sure whether that would help or make a difference.

    159. Gary45% says:

      Just heard Murdo the yoon on shortbread, no surprise he got away with a blatant lie on the EBC, if ever there was a case for a politician to be taken more seriously by wearing his pants on his head, then this is it.
      “Once in a generation” blah blah,
      I say what about the vow?
      Indy Ref 2 Aye.

    160. Nana says:

      Forgot to post earlier

      Drew Hendry mp angry with Mundell re closure of Fort George and the possibility of further army base closures

      http://www.mfr.co.uk/localnews/listen-inverness-mp-rages-at-response-from-scottish-secretary/

    161. galamcennalath says:

      Gary45% says:

      “Once in a generation” blah blah,
      Indy Ref 2 Aye.”

      The way I’m now looking at it, IndyRef1 and IndyRef2 are completely different events.

      IndyRef1 was Indy with doubts about EU membership VERSUS DevoMax/Federalism within the UK and EU. Guarantees on this outcome for NO were given.

      IndyRef2 will be Indy with membership of the EU guaranteed by the EU VERSUS DevoBuggerAll within an isolationist xenophobic far right UK outside the EU.

      Put that way, these two votes are utterly and completely different choices. Even the ‘Indy package’ will have changed considerably.

    162. call me dave says:

      Lots of derision for Scotland on GMS this morning as Auntie gets it’s message across prior to Sturgeons visit to Stirling tomorrow.

      Ship building big and good and all the rest of business manufacturing in the biggest downturn since 2009.

      Then moaning Murdoch with ” The SNP won’t take NO for an answer” and then two ex SNP advisers Jeff Aberdeen & Andy Collier, with Collier especially telling us how difficult it’s all going to be & too much uncertainty, Indy 2 not yet.
      That’s his second BBC visit in the last two weeks pissing on Scotland.

      Know what! The Unionists have had 300+ years at it and look where we are. Just makes me more determined for independence. 🙂

      Morning all.

    163. Training Day says:

      Ex SNP speechwriter unhesitatingly accepting – nay, promoting – the GERS figures on the colonial radio there. You should read Wings, squire.

      And on the day a fresh push for indy is launched, along comes another YouGov poll showing indy trailing. Just like on the day of the last rally.

      Co-ordination? Not much..

    164. galamcennalath says:

      Quote from WoS Twitter feed ….

      “12% of No voters have been persuaded to Yes since Brexit, but 13% of Yes voters have gone the other way.”

      If true, that is astonishing. Those Yes voters who switched because they are anti EU need to think long and hard about what they want – Indy or Utter UKOK Shite. IMO the EU, and how you feel about it, is small fry in comparison to issues around the way UKOK is going.

    165. carjamtic says:

      Hack One “I’m writing fake press releases about imaginary UKOK Brexit stories….Experts say the UK will be better off outside the Eu”

      Hack Two (trainee) “How do I know if this is a real story ?”

      Hack One “Seriously,you think there are real ones ?”

      Hack junior is now ‘cursed’ by the knowledge and once you know something you cannot unknow it….

    166. Macart says:

      Is it just me, or is anyones elses Spidey sense tingling? The past couple of weeks have seen the Yoonitariat ramp up the independence bad amp to eleven and then some. They reek of panic and barely suppressed frustrated anger. They’ve been whipping up their hardline voter base into a right old froth for, near as I can see, no reason at all.

      Not only has the FM not been banging on about an indyref, but the SG have bent over backwards to try and make the impossible happen by examining a case where both unions could be retained. Seems to me that if anyone injects the phrase ‘indyref’ into almost every release they can, its unionist politicians and their media chums.

      And yet… and yet the personal attacks on the FM have been almost daily by the press and political wonks. The attacks on Scotland’s ability to perform and therefore Scotland’s population and its ability to perform as an independent nation state have risen accordingly.

      I think the poor dears need reminded that they won the argument two years ago. The record of the UKs performance and its record of delivery on pledges made, its treatment of the Scottish government and population is ALL on them. Their government, their media, their management, their watch and their responsibility. If they have failed to deliver what they promised. If the cohesion of the political union and its society is failing, then it is ultimately THEIR responsibility and no one elses.

      They did win that referendum two years ago right?

      They’ve got a bit of work to do in the next 16 days then. They’ve yet to deliver near federalism, a constitutional convention and write the permanence of the Scottish parliament into UK law. They need to deliver those frigate orders to the Clyde, and find jobs for the thousands of workers in oil, steel, HMRC and the retail sector who lost theirs whilst those broad shoulders were having a minor stoop. Oh and THEY need to find a way of guaranteeing Scotland’s population remain members of the EU. That was also THEIR guarantee yes? Only by voting no would Scots guarantee continued membership of the EU?

      So why should it be up to Scotland’s First Minister to keep THEIR promises for THEM?

      Just curious like.

    167. galamcennalath at 10.58pm

      Agreed entirely. The system was designed I suspect to ensure that Scotland never produced a parliament with one party an overall majority. That would be dangerous to Westminster,regardless of what party.

      Another effect of our present system is that many people think they are supposed to vote for two different parties.

    168. Tinto Chiel says:

      Macart:

      Perhaps their private polling is giving them the sweats so they’re getting their retaliation in first.

      It’s been wall-to-wall smearing so something’s spooked them, I feel.

    169. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Done Nana and thanks for posting. Apparently the FM has made a speech about relaunching a campaign for independence. You know anything about that?

    170. Nana says:

      @Macart

      I missed the speech and as I have to go out perhaps you could keep an eye on the press briefings page as usually they put up speech transcripts.
      Also the speech was streamed live on youtube this morning so hoping it will reappear at some time

      http://news.scotland.gov.uk/content/default.aspx?NewsAreaId=139

    171. Macart says:

      Thanks Nana. 🙂

    172. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. TV Licence Enforcement. BBC TV have the full weight of the law behind them and they know it.
      PAY UP OR ELSE! We’ll send one or two of our Heavies from Pacific Quay round to serve you with something or other.
      A disgrace in a democracy.
      Is there no shame to these people?

      “Can I be prosecuted for watching BBC programmes on iPlayer without a TV Licence?
      Yes. The maximum penalty is a £1,000* fine plus any legal costs and/or compensation you may be ordered to pay.”

      A quote from their TV Licensing site.

    173. Vestas says:

      Am I the only one who thinks that Dugdale is the worst possible sort of hypocrite?

      She’s supposedly gay & she appoints the Scottish political editor of the most homophobic, racist rag in Europe as her “communications director”!

      Political shenanigans are one thing but this clearly shows the woman is a facile empty shell bereft of any morality.

      Absolutely unbelievable, it really is. Even by SLAB standards!

    174. gerry parker says:

      @ Jack Murphy.

      “Can I be prosecuted for watching BBC programmes on iPlayer without a TV Licence?
      Yes. The maximum penalty is a £1,000* fine plus any legal costs and/or compensation you may be ordered to pay.”

      A quote from their TV Licensing site.

      What they omit to say is that you can only be prosecuted if the prosecutor fiscal agrees that there is sufficient evidence that you have committed the offence.

      I never watch any of their rubbish anyway, being an “oldie” I am not even sure what i player is.

      The young ones all apparently use it though, I can see them handing themselves in en masse, just like we did when Radio Caroline and Radio Scotland were on the go.

      🙂



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