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Wings Over Scotland

The head start

Posted on August 30, 2016 by

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz gave an interesting interview to Good Morning Scotland just after 8am today, in which he expressed a number of careful, measured and qualified views on a variety of subjects including currency.

But obviously Scottish people are much too stupid to understand stuff like that, so the BBC quickly dumbed it down for them.


The problem is that there’s a difference between simplifying and falsifying.

Because what Stiglitz actually said was that the currency-union proposal MAY HAVE been an error:

“The reason they wanted to link the economy to the pound was that they wanted the smoothest transition possible, they wanted to say we can move from the current economic arrangement while keeping our currency and keeping other institutions.

I think in hindsight that may have been a mistake.”

It’s not a trivial thing to turn a qualified statement of possibility into an unambiguously definite assertion. Scottish journalists reporting a “not proven” verdict in a murder trial as a guilty one wouldn’t last long. And Philip Sim wasn’t just trying to save characters on Twitter, because the BBC web page he was linking to repeated the falsehood in both its headline and opening paragraph.


It’s halfway down the story before we get the actual quote, but as we all know a large percentage of readers have drifted away by then.


We go on about this phenomenon a lot, but that’s because it’s so important. The BBC can protest against accusations of bias by saying “Oh, we printed the real quote down in the middle somewhere”, but they know full well that by then it’s too late – the distortion is halfway around social media before the truth has its boots on.

If you categorically lie in the tweet, the headline and the opening paragraph of a story, “We eventually got it right by the time 50% of people had stopped reading” is a poor defence. It’s a lesson the BBC has no apparent interest in learning, and people can be forgiven for wondering why that is.

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    401 to “The head start”

    1. bobajock says:

      They do this constantly as you say. Almost like there is a meeting daily to ‘pick apart the truth’. Coffee and doughnuts, and lies and deception.

      Sad. Annoying. The MSM.

    2. Dr Jim says:

      The BBC are like Heroin

      if they want to talk to you “Just say NO” it WILL result in a bad experience

    3. Donald MacKenzie says:

      I think the key word is ‘dumb’. The content was dumbed down by dumb people.

    4. bunter says:

      Very tabloid of them.

    5. Ken500 says:

      Did Stiglitz not sign up to it? ‘Economist changes their mind’.

      Apple to pay back £13Billion in back taxes + interest. That’s a a start.

    6. Les Wilson says:

      Yes,the practice is repeated again and again whenever the opportunity exists. Partial truths, misinformation is becoming what the EBC will be remembered for.

      A corrupt institution just like many others in UKOK land, and any narative the can twist and corrupt to feed to Scotland will be fine, in their view. I am sure MI5 phsycological units work within the EBC and other insitutions to guide their hand.

    7. handclapping says:

      The BBC’s “truth”; even more useless than the footnotes in Wikipedia.

    8. Greannach says:

      I’m not acquainted with the work of Philip Sim, but if he’s a run-of-the-mill Scottish “journalist”, this may well be par for the course.

    9. Bryan Weir says:

      While I boil up up with some of the lying content and distortions deliberately produced by the BBC I am not so sure that this is one of their most flagrant.

      In reality there is not really a world of a difference in someone saying, “I think it was a mistake” or “I think it may have been a mistake”.

    10. Jeff says:

      Democracy is being stolen, daily – before our very eyes!

    11. Ken MacColl says:

      Is the BBC now to be compared to Orwell’s Ministry of Truth with all the news it decides you need to know. I heard the excerpt from Joseph Stiglitz and noted particularly how guarded his statement was.
      By the time the BBC had given it their Red Top treatment it read very differently but is now in the finest SNP bad mode.
      Philip Sim have you met Eleanor Bradford and Douglas Fraser?

    12. heedtracker says:

      Smirky there RT’s,

      Philip Sim ?@BBCPhilipSim 41m41 minutes ago
      You can hear the full @JosephEStiglitz GMS interview here – starts 2hrs 9mins in

      Its actually 2hrs 15mins in.

      “I thing in hindsight it may have been a mistake…” Usual BBC sneaky creepy lead up too though, “senior politicians believe that the reason the YES side lost that referendum was down to that economic prospectus…” hisses Gary, cheeky smirks all round.

    13. Andrew Coulson says:

      Don’t batter your head on the Overton window — soar above it instead!

    14. galamcennalath says:

      An intelligent writer with a good grasp of a subject can capture the essence of a topic in a relevant title and good abstract/summary in the first few lines.

      People who have a real job involving recording and imparting knowledge accurately do this as a matter of course. Scientific and technical journals are literally full of examples of it done properly. You read the abstract and you get an accurate, if superficial, overview.

      Everyone should ask, if people’s reading behaviour is well established and understood AND it is perfectly possible to capture the essence of an article at the beginning, why do people choose to do the opposite?

      Either, they are really shite at their job and fail miserably to present information accurately … OR … they know exactly what they are doing with dodgy titles and layout to distort facts to fit some wider agenda.

      As with all walks of life, there will be some incompetence involved, however we all see a pattern here. There are few journalists, but many propagandists practising their dark arts.

    15. shug says:

      I await the BBC challeng to Mr Brown on his latest promotion of real home rule.

      Not a word of criticism

      Anyone working at the BBC should hang their head in shame

      Interesting as soon as it appeared in the digital herald it was sounds laughter all around in the comments. I was really surprised to see it still in the paper. You would think they had the sense to see the nonsense for what it is. What a joke so glad I did not buy it

    16. Macart says:

      To misquote is to basically and radically alter the content of an interview or statement. A lie and misrepresentation some folk would call that y’know. Its not as if they don’t have access to the source material.

      Oh dear auntie. Yer bloomers are showing… again! 😮

    17. call me dave says:

      Heard it all on shortbread radio and your absolutely right… ‘could have’ , ‘may have’ suddenly becomes an unequivocal ‘was’ in a flash.

      Good old Auntie!

      Also Euro trashed and joining it is a no-no! But little Iceland seemed to slip in there to the conversation with it’s own rags to riches story because it has it’s own currency and has the levers of power which it can/did use.

      Funny old world init! 🙂

      This ‘out of retirement lark’ is fine but I’ll be glad to be returning to the bench in a couple of months. 🙂

    18. Joe says:

      Same as this page

      Never mentions the partys of non-snp MPs but always glad to stick in a ref to SNP to see if the mud sticks.

      “Mr Kitts-Hayes – the councillor for Inverurie and District and co-council leader with the SNP’s Richard Thomson – said in June that his decision to return early from Denmark had been a “poor one”.”

    19. Graf Midgehunter says:

      This is not misquoting something, it is deliberate lying.

      These lines don’t just suddenly emerge from a dark, murky, opaque background. A group of human beings sit down to review what was said and decide how to rearrange the words/meaning to form another which conforms to the message that they want propagate and deny the reader of the truth.

      This is state lying for propaganda purposes. It is crimminal activity.

    20. Proud Cybernat says:

      It’s all a question of trust….

    21. Grouse Beater says:

      It wasn’t a ‘mistake’ at the time the proposal was made, but that won’t stop a BBC staffer leaping on that one word, blood rushing to his head, making sure he gains favour with his senior staff.

    22. Cuilean says:

      If reading news articles from dubious sources, e.g. BBC online, (seldom) or Yoon papers, (say, discarded on a train), I read headline and 1st paragraph, then skip to last 3 paragraphs for the more rounded version.

    23. Fearchar says:

      To be fair, most Scottish journalists don’t understand there’s a difference between “may” and “might”. (Hence headlines stating someone “may have died” after it’s clear that an accident has not been fatal.) This could just be an example of a similar kind of weakness.

    24. carjamtic says:

      I didn’t write the HEADLINE,a narcissist did it,then ran away…..

      The narcissist doesn’t see anything wrong,with what they do,they see it as their ‘duty’ and they’re actually helping you,because you’re too wee,too stupid,too poor to understand.

      BBC/MSM,rather than lies,than spin,than propaganda,than bias,than unfairness….just give us the truth or GTF.

    25. Francis morrison says:

      Perhaps we should ask Mr roden what he thinks’
      Now that he and kez have joint ownership of the labour braincell

    26. James says:

      “I think in hindsight that may have been a mistake”
      what does that statement say to you?
      I think you may be protesting too much Rev.

    27. Peter Clive says:

      Broadcasting in this country is a disgrace. Some previous strops of mine about it:

      The Olympics as jingoistic tub thumping exercise

      That appalling Channel 4 insult to Moidart

      That hilarious time Question Time was from Dundee

    28. James says:

      surely what he is saying is – I think it was a mistake but I may be wrong.
      Hence the headline is spot on.

    29. Smallaxe says:

      Every time they lie brings us closer to goodbye.Peace

    30. Haggishunter says:

      The BBC have been doing this ever since I started watching TV, anything deemed Scottish and cultural went on after midnight on a Tuesday

    31. Firestarter says:

      Nick Eardley did the same re independence on twitter.

    32. bjsalba says:

      As far as Brown’s statements go, I would suggest that the National wants us to tell them what we think of his suggestion for their letters page.

      I think we should oblige them – but be sure to keep it within the bounds of propriety, so they can print them.

      The e-mail address is

    33. Luigi says:

      I’m not sure the Sterling approach was a bad move in 2014. It was a case of the YES campaign being damned if they did, damned if they didn’t. Economically, it made perfect sense, but politically it was always open up to attack. Mind you, Osbourne’s crude intervention alienated many and scared others, and ultimately backfired. It certainly won no lasting support for the union.

      Nah, the YES campaign was fine and it took us to 45%. Folk just weren’t quite ready for independence and wanted to give the UK one last chance. They won’t make the same mistake next time. 🙂

    34. Artyhetty says:

      Donald MacKenzie says@11.05

      Actually they are quite the opposite, not dumb. These people are really quite clever, they know exactly how to manipulate the populace, (well they are not working alone) and rely on most of those being dumb. An insult I know, as some are too busy to look into things any deeper, some don’t care, and some just believe what the bbc tells them, it’s traditional, to believe the bbc.

      The bbc is a tradition, and as we know, traditions can be dangerous and destructive.

    35. Gail Hughes says:

      There’s also an important point of what he considered may have been a mistake. The inference from the report is that he believes using the pound in a currency union would have been a mistake. i.e. an error of economics. However, from the full quote it seems more like he was saying that putting forward that policy as part of the plan for independence may have been a mistake, i.e an error of strategy.

      My own view for what it was worth is that there was nothing majorly wrong with the idea of using the pound as part of a currency union for the reasons he gives, it would have provided the smoothest transition for people during the process of Independence. I do agree, with hindsight, that putting forward the one option which relied on the co-operation of the UK government was possibly not the best strategy to adopt.

      I think the biggest mistake of the Yes campaign and the Scottish Government was in not expecting the level of outright hostility that came from the UK government. I think the white paper proposals were put forward thinking that both sides would put forward their proposals, the electorate would vote and, if Independence got the majority, everyone would work amicably to implement the result for the best of everyone in both Scotland and the UK, as per the Edinburgh agreement. Instead, the Independence campaign was treated almost as a declaration of war with anti-independence politicians seeming determined to make things as hard for an Independent Scotland as they could. In view of that, yes, it would have been a better strategy to put forward a currency option which could have been implemented unilaterally.

      Still, we’ll know better next time.

    36. velofello says:

      The mistake was in the SNP believing that the Tories would act in a logical and reasonable manner.The shared currency proposal gave UKOK an opportunity to damage the Yes campaign by declining the SNP proposal,a proposal that Westminster couldn’t block in reality . A lesson learned, next time do not set out your stall assuming any cooperation with UKOK.

      And the shameless Brown’s latest Home Rule nonsense: keep “specific powers” at Westminster – currency, defence, security and pensions. Aye right,meaning keep Scotland financially shackled to Westminster.

      He then blabs on about an unreconstructed nationalism. perhaps it is his moral compass that is unreconstructed.

    37. Portjim says:

      An interesting interview. I thought Gary played it pretty straight – it would have been odd to have Stiglitz on and not ask him about his advice on the currency question!
      Regarding the Euro, Stiglitz seems to be saying that it is run by and for Germany, in much the same way as the Pound sterling is run by and for London and the south-east. I hadn’t thought of it in quite that way before – a timely warning for Scotland, perhaps? We don’t want to be an unwilling Sub swapping one Dom for another – let’s try it without ritual humiliation and flogging!
      With regard to the reporting of the interview, I take Galamcennalath’s point about incompetence vs malice but, when the skew is always in the same direction, I think they know exactly what they do. There may not be a formal policy or a conspiracy, but there certainly seems to be a “culture”.

    38. Dr Jim says:

      If Joseph Stiglitz is working as an advisor to the Scottish government what’s he doing giving briefings to the BBC anyway should it not be the Scottish governments job to release any findings or opinions he MAY or may not have as part of an overall strategy compiled by the SG

      Radio shortbread now reporting Stiglitz says staying in the EU a mistake

      I don’t really care how Nobel or Noble this guy is but keeping his very own big mouth shut is obviously not one of his accompishments
      Normally if you yap your chops off about your employers business before they do you get fired for being untrustworthy and unreliable

      Nobel Joseph might be clever but he’s also naive in the extreme if he thinks whatever comes out of that very own big mouth of his will be reported by any UK media in any context in which he thinks he MAY have meant it

    39. Stoker says:

      And what, exactly, will Stiglitz do about it? They’ve deliberately twisted his words into a blatant lie. He should be demanding a retraction, correction and full apology.

      Never mind about revealing the actual quote buried among a pile of guff, their fabricated headlines are outright lies to anyone who doesn’t read beyond them – the equivalent to a poster on a wall.

      Will Stiglitz kick up a fuss or allow them to deceive the public?
      The BBC has zero credibility, how much does Joseph Stiglitz have?

    40. Valerie says:

      Pathetic manipulation.

      The key is ‘ in hindsight’. Of course, anybody looking back over an event like this can pronounce it possibly a mistake.

      Stiglitz may also be setting the scene for not using £ sterling, if he is still acting as an advisor to SG. As many have said previously, for what is to come, we shouldn’t hitch our wagon to the £.

      The Tweet from Sim was clearly meant to state a criticism of the SG, and Stiglitz was not criticising.

    41. Johnny says:

      Yes, they definitely do know that it’s too late by halfway down. I remember some years ago being shown a bit with George Alagaiah (sp?) in a lecture, wherein he stated that they knew most drifted off after the headlines when watching the Six O’Clock News. So they know all that fine well.

    42. call me dave says:

      Health service patient satisfaction continues to rise

      PS: A moan:

      20th best golfer in the world statistics
      7th in FedEx standings
      Plays in America mostly (Ryder Cup there next month)

      Can’t get in the Ryder Cup team 🙁 Geez!

    43. Breeks says:

      Let’s all not talk about independence.

      Let’s talk authoritively about something we can only decide for ourselves IF we are independent, versus something we can neither change nor influence UNLESS we are independent.

      Let’s talk about it now, months or even years before the prevailing circumstances and politics of the day are known, when there is no imperative whatsoever to decide which currency we should use. Let us further ignore the fact that choosing independence over union will move the economic goal posts all by itself, rendering all policy and arguments obsolete.

      Cast your mind back to 16th September 1992. That was Black Wednesday, when the pound tailspinned, and had to be withdrawn from the ERM with the Euro. What saved the UK economy from disaster was the UK’s sovereign control and capacity to change its decision, and do so quickly.

      This currency debate is THEIR agenda. Not ours.

      The sovereign aspect of the currency debate is whether WE choose our own Scottish currency, or whether have have somebody else choose it for us. It was the UK which took us into the ERM in 1992, and it was the UK which took us back out again in a hurry. Neither decision was ours. Without sovereignty, we are merely passengers who cannot decide anything for ourselves.

      The health and vitality of any currency is ephemeral. It changes and reacts to changes constantly.

      Sovereignty, having the power to make a decision, remains constant and absolute. Sovereignty is everything. Choice of currency is a much lesser priority.

      By all means, let us shortlist the options and weigh up the pros and cons of various currencies, but do so that we are better informed for when it matters. But deciding on option A or B now is jumping the gun.

      It’s the difference between saying we will use the Scottish pound or “we could”, but unless we have our sovereignty back, we will have whatever currency Westminster says we will.

    44. Tam Jardine says:

      There was plenty of food for thought during the interview and it dismays me that the BBC simply take one quote, distort it and use it to hammer the pro independence side. I mean- was that the only thing they heard?

      His comments on Iceland were interesting for example, as was his overall view of the EU and the direction of the Eurozone. His views on a separate Scottish currency were interesting too but such an apparent aberration is not deemed worthy of a headline.

      Honestly- you have a world renowned economist on and reduce his contribution to a distorted soundbite.

    45. AnneDon says:

      The mistake was assuming the Westminster government would play by the rules of the Edinburgh agreement.

    46. Nana says:

      I remembered reading something last year about Stiglitz advising Corbyn. Does anyone know if he is still advising the Scotgov.

    47. Marie Clark says:

      For me, it’s lying, pure and simple. The beeb knows it, but doesn’t care. It can keep on denying it till the kye come hame, but it’s lying, propaganda, sure. But what is propaganda but lies and misdirection, and they are doing it deliberately as Lord Pishmonkey would say.

      As for Broon he can GTF wi a’ his nonsense. He must think our heids button up the back. Maybe he has a short memory, but the yes side of the debate don’t. We remember your vow and promise of home rule as near independence as could be, how did that work out exactly?

      Crawl off Broon, as the yanks would say about your proposal, your a day late and a dollar short.

    48. louis.b.argyll says:

      Beattie/autocue just said…’Stiglitz said.. ‘and I quote…’.

      It’s not fucking funny anymore!
      BBC bosses are like holocaust deniers.

    49. heedtracker says:

      Regarding the Euro, Stiglitz seems to be saying that it is run by and for Germany, in much the same way as the Pound sterling is run by and for London and the south-east. I hadn’t thought of it in quite that way before – a timely warning for Scotland, perhaps?

      Ooh its exciting, perhaps? It wouldn’t have mattered what currency choice was made by anyone, Stiglitz included pre referendum, relentless and mounting tory BBC Scotland vote NO hysteria, would have destroyed all of it.

      Currency was then and will be tory yoonsters like the BBC’s major attack point. It was all kicked off by Osborne jetting in to now union jack draped Embro and stating in that delightful English way, NO sterling share for you vile seps. Even though they couldn’t prevent it.

      Google “osborne says no to Scottish sterling” and blammo!

      Tahdah! first up of thousands of tory BBC led press no sterling monstering,

      Nice display of how BBC Scotland stamps on Scottish democracy, day in day out.

    50. sinky says:

      At 12.45 quoting Stiglitz John Beattie said Scotland should have used THEIR own pound rather than our own pound.

    51. Kevin Evans says:

      I think media direction has changed since indyref.

      During indyref if was reporting to protect the union. Now it seems it’s really just anti SNP reporting. Now the goverment should be held to account if there is bad policy and such but it has now just smear after smear after smear with no journalistic content. It’s now SNP bashing.

    52. Bryan Weir says:

      If there is a sulphurous, sh*tty smell in the room and Stiglitz says, “I think someone may have farted”, would it be safe to assume that he believed a fart was the cause and report it as such?

      Or would it be reported that he had thought there was a chance that perhaps, possibly, maybe, someone had been farting?

    53. Cal says:

      I think he’s right. It was a mistake. Imagine for a moment they had agreed to the proposition and the vote had been Yes two years ago. We would now be dealing with a lying, double dealing bunch of low life bastards who would rather see the rUK’s economy suffer and in the process destroy the economy of their closest neighbour and long term ally. That is what they have revealed themselves to be – dangerously untrustworthy. Nope, we’re better off controlling our own economy as much as possible. Our friends on the mainland are infinitely more reliable than the scheming toads at Westminster. With friends like that who needs enemies?

      Aye, sure things would still have been better if we’d had a Yes last time than they are now but we’d be having major problems in our dealings with London. Next time we need to learn from the experience and recognise better who our true allies and friends are. That way a vote for independence in the next referendum will lead to a much smoother transition to autonomy and long term economic stability.

    54. shug says:

      Agree just heard j Beattie repeating the lie

      Quite dissapointwd in him really

      So the key question is why do they want us to believe it was a mistake, where do they want the snp to head new

    55. Clootie says:

      I think he was probably saying that instead of selecting the best currency option during the campaign they focused on trying to minimise voters concerns regarding a currency model.

      ….but it doesn’t matter what I or anyone else thinks. What does matter is that
      A) The BBC didn’t try to gain clarification before rushing to print, and
      B) They turned an opinion within an unclear context into a statement of fact.

      Remember that their ongoing right to DEMAND a financial levy on the Scottish public requires them to remain in the favour of WESTMINSTER which is more likely to be gained by defence of the UNION through an ongoing slant or PROPAGANDA.
      Quite a conflict of interest!

    56. louis.b.argyll says:

      Let’s get out of Sterling before it’s found out that it’s relative global status masks it’s fragility.

      THE UK is about to go down the tubes, dragging it’s underpaid workforce into ever deeper personal debt.

      We need out, it’s too risky, moving they say..

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      Liars lie and none lie quite as enthusiastically the media generally and the BBC in particular.

      It is all spin and propaganda and a complete lack of genuine desire to convey balanced information.

    58. Bryan Weir says:

      Nah! This one is a storm in a teacup.

    59. Bob Mack says:

      The definition of “may” is the” expressing of a possibility”. It is by no means certain.
      What the professor is actually saying is that he does not know for sure.

    60. louis.b.argyll says:

      Cal, do you know he’s right? Or just think he thinks he’s right. Does he think he knows better? Do you know he does? Who knows.?

      It’s not about what anyone’s about more lies being pushed into ill-informed conversations.

    61. Proud Cybernat says:

      “During indyref [sic]it was reporting to protect the union…”

      During indyref it was misreporting to protect the union…

      There, fixed.

    62. Vronsky says:

      There is some semantic quibbling going on.

      But anyway, and leaving that aside, there actually was an important mistake made at that time, but not by the seperatisti. Scots were informed that they needn’t take a share of UK debt. Duly minuted.

      Let’s hope that the SNP in final negotiation doesn’t decide to be sporting about that mistake.

      (rasping Corleone voice) You said no, mutherfucker – now suck it up.

    63. call me dave says:

      Independent Northern Ireland possible as top Tories talk federal UK

    64. call me dave says:

      Not all bad news then as Scottish electoral map redrawn.

      Warning: Picture of fluffy. 🙂

    65. Iain says:

      Shock, horror, the Ebc are exposed as incompetent liars again.
      Why would the people of Scotland be surprised. I wonder what they will do when Scotland is independent and their services are no longer required and the people of Scotland will not pay their pensions.
      You reap what you sow.

    66. Inverclyder says:

      Could all this spewing of hatred from the usual sources be anything to do with the previously mentioned rumoured announcement to come this week?

      Ater all they don’t defrost Broon for nothing these days! Broon Smash Grrrrrr!

      Seems there’s a lot of yoons that have a hive full of bees up their arses at the moment.

      Has there been Polling going on we don’t know about and YES has hit 60%?

      Perhaps it’s just a slow Corbyn will destroy Labour day and they’re testing the waters on what annoys the most.

    67. Sunniva says:

      It was never an ECONOMIC mistake. It would have worked adequately to everyone’s interest.

      It was a POLITICAL mistake, in that it depended on HM Government and the Treasury saying that they would agree to co-operate willingly with an indy Scotland, a thing they were never going to concede during a political campaign.

      It’s here that good professor was politically naive in assuming that the UK Government would dance along to our tune.

    68. Chris says:

      BBC website changed when I viewed it at 13:54. Headline still the same but now says the following (immediately below picture):

      “A Nobel prize-winning economist says Scotland’s plans for a currency union with the UK during the independence campaign may have been a “mistake”.”

    69. heedtracker says:

      Last Spring Lord King of Bank of England said the Scottish nation state could have kept their UK pound too but its maybe all about the difference between “keeping” and “using.” Toryboy yoons say there is a giant NO winning difference though, in that NO won on Scotland cant “keep”, only partly though, as BBC Gary likes to slide in.

      He added: “I think that would have been totally feasible there was no need for an independent currency, that wouldn’t have posed any threat or difficulty for an independent Scotland.

      “And I see absolutely no reason why it would have caused a problem for the Bank of England to allow banks to keep on functioning in Scotland.”

    70. Sharny Dubs says:

      It’s not incompetence, not a mistake, or typo, it’s deliberate misinformation to attain political ends. So sad to see a once proud global leader become such a useless organ. Reminds me of the propaganda we used to see from old soviet block rags.

    71. heedtracker says:

      It must be a great boost for the tory BBC led unionists, in that there is this currency uncertainty/certainty. Bank of England Lord King says its fine, now! Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz says it may have been a mistake, now!

      Early Spring, P&J says look at 17 broken BetterTogether promises. Late Summer, rancid the Graun says Scotland is No. 1 UKOK booming place, with no oil revenues and a huge throbber of a black hole too., UKOK style.

    72. AnTeallach says:

      @ louis b argyll and shug

      Aye I heard John Beattie and his newsreader with their misreporting too! I texted my disapproval pointing out their mistake to no avail. Maybe I’m blocked! ?

    73. manandboy says:

      Brown has agreed, again, to work for the Tories. His job is to speak to those who can be fooled all the time.

      Later, he will address the pensioners. He will lie to them about losing their State pension and they will become afraid,an thed vote No,again.

    74. gordoz says:

      Lesson learned by Prof Stigltz, you cannot expect your colonial masters to be reasonable re divorce as they have not learned from previous experiences to act like grown ups..
      They don’t have to and never will unless it hits them in the pocket ( severely )

    75. Boris says:

      It was a mistake! I voted Yes, would do so again, but even at the time it was obviously such a poor choice.

    76. manandboy says:

      …and then vote No, again.

      Android, grrr.

    77. gordoz says:

      Serious question.

      Why would BBC ever change their stance; this side of Indy ?
      Motivation ?

    78. John J. says:

      They’d been banging away all morning with some negative stastics of doubtful usefulness regarding inward investment to regions of the UK. Hayley Millar was, as usual, trying to link them to Indyref, and they had their tame Professor Bell to stick the knife in too.

      The morning’s editorial conference would have been an interesting ‘fly on the wall’ experience.

    79. heedtracker says:

      Warning: Picture of fluffy.

      Arise Baron Fluffie of Mayfair, the princess of peoples hearts.

    80. Effijy says:

      Apologies for the language but :
      BBC, Biased Bigoted Corruption.

      Yes you are fed up with me banging this drum, but we must do everything possible to expose and disseminate their practices, until they can be removed from our country, Scotland. Butcher’s apron No More!

      Sovereignty, Justice and Freedom.

      The 91,000 who have signed this petition are not wrong!

    81. They repeated the lie this lunchtime on the BBC TV News Where You Are,
      Stiglitz says a proposed currency Union was a mistake.
      The fact that he didn’t say that, is neither here nor there to the UK State Propaganda Machine.
      I’m paid to lie, so I lie.
      Our MSM are famous for it.
      There is never any Unionist bad news, but we all know that.
      Take for example Glasgow City’s Arms Length External Organisations (ALEO) set up by New Labour Red Tory Glasgow Council, a privatisation of public services in anybody’s language.
      City Parking has recorded eight straight years of losses.
      The new ‘owners’ ran up mortgages on the 4 carparks, and because of negative equity, the properties are worth half what they paid for them, and now shows a minus £30 million trading loss.
      Yet for eight years my tax dollars have been used to bail this farce out. £500,000 was the last Get Out Of Jail amount. So the ALEO board, which I believe always includes a councillor on wages, has been an abject failure, yet McAveety,has ignored Union and Opposition calls to bring this massive loss maker back into public ownership.
      City Building ALEO is in the same position. How the fuck it could make a loss with Commonwealth Games contracts coming out of their ears beats me. Privatisation, eh? Cannae whack it.
      If my memory serves, David ‘Iw rite what I like’ Leask covered these stories, but the MSM soon swallowed them up. Rather like the £11 million in taxi fares in North Lararkshire Council, it is reported, then buried.
      Our MSM border on malicious handmaidens to the remnants of the corrupt Red Blue and Yellow Tory regimes who ripped the arse out of Scotland’s public finances over the past 50 years. Cover it up. Stifle Free Speech.
      Perhaps a FOI to GCC to enquire how much we are paying CEO’s of these failed ALEO’s to be such spectacular fuck ups.
      Nearer the May 2017 LA elections, it will be time to expose these carpetbaggers, and their six figure salaries, and golden parachute payoffs.
      Our Fourth Estate Fifth Column has covered up this sleazy little gang of privateers for decades.
      ‘Was’ instead of ‘may’ is small beer. Perhaps the lad is just an apprentice liar.

    82. jimnarlene says:

      This is way my TV license is in the bin.

    83. PS It’s funny how Douglas Fraser refers to it a Scotland’s oil when the industry is in the doldrums, yet a couple of years ago when oil was coining it in, Cameron held a Cabinet meeting in Shell’s Boardroom, Up There, and it was ‘Britain’s’ oil.
      His analysis on the decline of inward investment in Scotland, and the more detailed success story’ of increased investment in North East England and the Holy London Empire was a masterclass in Scotland is shite.
      We only report the figures, is an Eichmann defence, oh scribes of the Union.

    84. Proud Cybernat says:

      Ah, the BBC. Tum-tee-tum…

    85. jimnarlene says:

      Why, not way,ffs.

    86. Proud Cybernat says:

      For Crash Gordon – we haven’t forgotten what you did…

    87. heedtracker says:

      Its also made rancid The Graun’s rolling thunder of NO

      Facebook Twitter Google plus
      2h ago
      As well as giving an interview to Today (see 10.34am), Joseph Stiglitz gave an interview to BBC Radio Scotland. The Nobel Prize-winning economist sits on Nicola Sturgeon’s council of economic advisers and he said that Scotland should consider having its own currency if it opts for independence. Before the 2014 referendum the Scottish government’s fiscal commission working group (part of the council of economic advisers) proposed an independent Scotland having a currency union with the rest of the UK. But this may have been a mistake, Stiglitz said:”

      Its nice that they listen verbatim to BBC Radio Scotland in London England, or Graun Towers more accurately, not an astonishing coincidence at all and in anyway, that all tory BBC led Britnats across their union are routinely tuning in to Pacific Quay’s daily 3 hour morning blasts of NO, and Scotland’s shite, just NO. Although Gary and the team do just regurgitate everything about English news, so it does make some UKOK sense.

    88. pro-loco says:

      o/t but in relation to GERS, oil and as a consequence Scotland’s finances in general have a look at this report
      with its embedded link to a more detailed report.

      This shows that after tinkering with high tax rates for Scotland’s oil with disastrous consequences for the oil industries confidence in the UK governments handling of the oil industry, George Osborne reformed the oil tax regime effectively allowing tax rebates on peripherally related losses.

      There has been no significant drop in production of oil and the drop in oil prices does not justify the reduction in revenues to the miserable £60m.

      A forensic examination of these documents might well show many good reasons for Osborne’s reforms – but one major benefit to the Unionist cause as opposed to the treasuries coffers , would seem to be the demolition of the oil revenue account by the modification of tax allowances to a much wider degree.The comparison of historical oil revenues is rendered irrelevant by these opaque changes.

    89. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Resently talking to a old army pal. Scottish but living in England. Really hateful stuff on Nicola. Then I twigged. He was getting all his information from msn. Directed him to wings. Don’t know if he looked.
      I’m thinking of getting business cards made up with the wings web address on it. Then just leaving them around on trains busses etc. Perhaps I should do the phone boxes in the red light areas. Contact Stu for a good time.

    90. Tinto Chiel says:

      Jack Collatin: we’re living in the post-truth Era, don’t ye know? But only because the BBC made it so.

      Nice graphics in your first poster, Proud Cybernat, but what’s Stan Laurel doing sitting beside Union Jackie Bird?

      Haw, Haw!

    91. CameronB Brodie says:

      The BBC is simply doing what it says on the tin and as it is commanded to do by Royal Charter, i.e. pimp British nationalist ideology. This can be achieved by a variety of techniques, such as through defining what it means to be middle-class and British, thereby promoting a “One Nation” British middle-class habitus that denies the humanity of those who identify as Scots and who wish for self-determination. One simply can’t have ‘blood and soil’ separatists rocking the UKOK boat.

      Outright distortion of the truth is easier to spot. Remember them pimping the Brown stuff back in 2014.

      Gail Hughes @12:20
      Thanks for your excellent post.

      @Gerry Hassan
      Have you seen the light?

    92. Cal says:

      Louis b argyll @1.31pm

      AIs I said in my comment I “think” it’s right that we shouldn’t have assummed London would act rationally and behave like reasonable people. I also think we should learn the lesson and choose one of the other currency options from the list in the White Paper-one that doesn’t involve relying on non existant goodwill from Westminster (page 110). That’s all my comment was designed to convey. I was merely sharing my opinion.

      As for the BBC, I long since gave up on them.I don’t pay the propaganda tax. They can say what they like. I’m not listening anymore. There is nothing that can be done about the BBC or any of the other MSN except discredit them which the good revrend does so very well. And I thank him for his work.

    93. Grouse Beater says:

      For those quick to condemn Stiglitz I’d caution diplomacy. He’s one of Scotland’s best cheerleaders as an independent state.

      I can see why he thinks the Euro a good Plan B now. It’s fallen dramatically against the pound sterling since proto-fascist England voted to remove the UK from Europe, and we need to remain a member to help prosperity advance. In asking to stay a member we will, in time, accept the Euro, as Ireland has done, and without any detriment to its economy.

      On that basis he’s bound to reassess the situation. Either way, I read he felt we should start by not having debt.

    94. Scott says:

      BBC=Scots currency union plan ‘a mistake’

      Herald=Sturgeon adviser suggests call for independent Scotland to share the pound was a mistake

      STV=SNP’s currency union plan ‘a mistake’, says Sturgeon’s adviser

      There they are folks all three miss out the may “have been a mistake” have not looked any further as I suppose they will all be the same.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      30 August, 2016 at 3:09 pm
      For those quick to condemn Stiglitz I’d caution diplomacy. He’s one of Scotland’s best cheerleaders as an independent state.

      Its not that GB. This is clearly part of a new, deeper and more aggressive BBC led and coordinated UKOK campaign, building on GERS and the black hole of their Scotland region.

      Much of BetterTogether and the media’s Project Fear was very rushed, very nasty, ended in a final two week ref run up of eye bulging Project Fear hysteria. And ofcourse much of Project Fear’s turned out to be complete bollox too. Look at Clydeside RN contracts? Gone.

      So Brexit, The Vow coming to nothing, a probable recession, our red and blue tory chums in the south are building their ref 2 UKOK case now. They cant afford to lose control of Scotland. Its that simple.

    96. Iain More says:

      As far as I am concerned the BBC and STV lied. One is as bad as the other. They are now in a competition with each other to se who can pump out he most lies in a day.

      The will be followed up the so called Scottish Press printing the same lies.

      My own view is that we have our own currency and that we keep well away from the Brit Peso as it will be and the Euro.

      In relation to the original currency plan in the 2014 Indy Ref I am of the view that was the SNP being nice to the rest of the UK even when the rest of the UK didn’t deserve such magnanimity due to the way rUK and the Brit Nats conducted themselves during that referendum and the DISGUSTING way they have conducted themselves since and on a daily basis.

      We are not dealing with rational or reasonable people when dealing with greedy rapacious Brit Nats in Westmidden or the British Establishment. It is way past time that the SNP stopped playing nice with them.

    97. Dan Huil says:

      Lying britnat media scum. The bbc is the worst. Don’t pay its britnat tax. There is no way back; the bbc is beyond redemption.

    98. Arbroath1320 says:

      So good old BBC are at it … AGAIN! *YAWN*

      Think I’ll just leave this here. 😉

    99. Kevin Evans says:

      Ya know this whole article 50 delay rubbish. If the result of indyref had been 51% yes how long do you think the uk would have allowed Scotland to delay things.

      Hypocrisy to the last

    100. ronnie anderson says:

      Would it be possible for this site to make contact with Mr Stiglitz & bring this to his attention. I dont think he would like to be misquoted by Bbc or anyone else.

      Hows about it Rev.

    101. Marker Post says:

      Deaths down by one third since A9 speed cameras installed.

      Another SNP Bad story gone, well, bad…

      And I’m sure we all remember who was most vocal in his opposition, don’t we, Danny Alexander…

    102. galamcennalath says:

      velofello says:
      at 12:24 pm

      “The mistake was in the SNP believing that the Tories would act in a logical and reasonable manner…. A lesson learned, next time do not set out your stall assuming any cooperation with UKOK.”

      Agree. Knowing what we know now, UKOK will always be negative about everything Scottish. Expecting them to not refuse and challenge absolutely everything in Yes plans was naive.

      After all that has happened so far, I think we have to assume UKOK will take a hostile stance on by default. When has there been any cooperation with SNP/SG?

      We must start from a position where all plans include provision for inevitable attack.

      iScotland and rUK will cooperate post Indy. Prior to that point expect the worst of them.

    103. Scotland`s oil when it is bad news,

      Brutish Empire oil when it`s good news,

      Andy Murray is a winging jock when he gets beat,

      Andy Murray is a hero of the British Empire when he wins gold,

      Laura Muir at the Olympics was a Scots dud,

      Laura Muir is a modern day British Boudica when she won in Paris,

      the drip drip drip of Unionist anti Scottish propaganda,

      “keep telling the sweaties they are too wee too poor and too stupid and that the Brutish Empire will protect them from their silly ideas”.

    104. Andy-B says:

      Ah the BBC, distorting the facts again, no surprise there then.

      The BBC will do its damnedest, to prevent the facts getting out during indyref 2.

      A difficult if not impossible act to counter.

    105. Lochside says:

      The mistake was thinking that any chance of a reasonable and cooperative response from Westminster, particularly Cameron and Osborne, in regard to sharing the pound sterling was ever likely.

      They took great delight in telling us to fuck off. And despite all the revisionist stuff since by Cairney etc. like the rest of the shite being flung at Scotland it has stuck in the minds of the ‘undecided’ that we are subservient to our Imperial masters in all affairs economic. Until the SNP come up with the currency argument that is viable and all ours, they can forget winning the next referendum. The silent majority of Scottish voters have proven that they are conservative with a small ‘c’ when it comes to money. And who can blame them? AS’s options for currencies was easily obfuscated by the Unionist scum media.

    106. Dan Huil says:

      It would be helpful if a high-profile pro-indy supporter came out publicly saying they were refusing to pay the bbc tax. The publicity would soon boost non-payment.

    107. Stoker says:

      ronnie anderson wrote:
      “Would it be possible for this site to make contact with Mr Stiglitz & bring this to his attention. I dont think he would like to be misquoted by Bbc or anyone else. Hows about it Rev.”

      I agree, worth repeating, and it would mean so much more coming from someone with a bit of clout such as the Rev.

      Meanwhile, we could all fire off complaints to the BBC and clog their system. Not only are they promoting a blatant lie they also have employees Tweeting this lie further.

      Anyone thinking that signing a dodgy commercial petition will achieve anything is simultaneously barking at the moon whilst playing Dueling Banjos with their toes.

      Complaints to the BBC will be skirted as per usual but they’ll not take kindly to having their system clogged as we’ve done previously. 🙂

    108. Robert Peffers says:

      @James says: 30 August, 2016 at 12:05 pm:

      ” … I think you may be protesting too much Rev.”


      And we all know what though did, James, when he thought he had farted.

    109. ScottishPsyche says:

      You get the feeling after all this time they still don’t realise listeners have heard the original when they do this. Same with Gordon Brown’s latest ramblings – do they think people cannot remember what he said the last time and the time before that?

      Everything seems so hasty and shoddy. Is it terminal incompetence and failure to address detail that is the BBC Scotland’s main problem? Whether through lack of funding or demoralisation they are simply not up to the job. A mistake might be understandable in the early bulletins but by the time it reaches Reporting Scotland they have no excuses.

      Most of the time they are just regurgitating press releases and newspaper headlines but when they get a good story they still mess it up with ill prepared headlines and copy.

    110. As an aside, and because I’m laid low with a head cold, I went truffle hunting on the net. and entered’Glasgow City Council: ALEO’s’, following my earlier comment on the MSM burying bad news about anything to do with the Unionist politicos.
      Check out ‘Glasgow City Council: Operational Scrutiny Reports.
      ALEO Governance and risk Reports. 31st March 2016.’
      I’m a Glasgow Rate Payer. I’m worried as hell.
      Our ALEOs appear to be in deep sh1t. That is if the red line running through the columns of all LAO’s risk assessments are anything to go by.
      I can see why the BBC PQ, and the Glasgow hacks avoid reporting on kid-on privatisation at the Cooncil, this car crash of a failed toy sweety shop experiment on how to really fuck things up.
      It looks like we are spending millions on hiring checkers to check the checkers.’Governence’
      Like the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board, there seems to be a lot of meetings and ‘governance’ going on.
      We residents are going to hell on a hand cart, and our Hackery of journos suppress this farce of a New Labour privatisation scam.
      Doubtless lots of Managing Directors are getting paid market value Footballers’ salaries now, as opposed to civil service wages they used to get, back in the day when we had council employees.
      Meanwhile Gordon Brown celebrates the Relief of Mafeking.

    111. shug says:

      Never mind post truth politics in Scotland we get post truth news from the BBC
      Given the Rev has blown the gaff what’s the chances call Kaye will take calls on why does the BBC make up news
      Not holding my breath right enough but one could call in an one subject and when through ask the hard question Why does the bbc misrepresent

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bryan Weir says: 30 August, 2016 at 1:28 pm:

      “Nah! This one is a storm in a teacup.”

      There! There! There!

    113. call me dave says:

      I breathed a sigh of relief when I read earlier that patient satisfaction with the SNHS was going up but I realise now that I was shurley mishtaken!

      Ruthie on cue and probably wee wullie tomorrow. FGS!

      They are very happy to spent our pocket money but can’t say where it’s coming from. 🙁

    114. Ian Murray says:

      Just another example of “journalists” who have sold their souls to the devil
      I hope we dump the physical penny when the new currency comes in, the cost to mint and keep in circulation is prohibitive
      Canada dumped theirs a few years ago and we hardly noticed

    115. garles says:

      galamcennalath says:
      30 August, 2016 at 4:14 pm

      velofello says:
      at 12:24 pm

      “The mistake was in the SNP believing that the Tories would act in a logical and reasonable manner…. A lesson learned, next time do not set out your stall assuming any cooperation with UKOK.”

      No submitted anything for a while but lurking.I have every faith in SG. Look what happened the last time WM and SG locked horns.Who blinked first FM & J Swinney played a blinder.

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      A banjo player, an accordion player, and a politician jump off the Eifel Tower, who gets saved first?

      We all do! 🙂

    117. I have.said it before I know but the bbc and the media are allowed to get of with this Time after time and no one apart from wings challenges them I mean in my opinion there was the stonewall case for Niola to sue them over Frenchgate with the help of the Frech ambassador and that was only one of many but no nothing was done about it the S.N.P. By doing nothing are condoning it for goodness sake you are in power use it to put a stop to these lies the people deserve to hear the truth and you have the power to make it happe

    118. galamcennalath says:

      garles says:

      “I have every faith in SG.”

      Me too.

      “Look what happened the last time WM and SG locked horns.Who blinked first FM & J Swinney played a blinder.

      Yes, John did well.

      However, you have to look back at the 2014 currency union assumption of cooperation with WM and see it as naive. It was hand them an opportunity to get the boot in. Next time we need to make fewer mistakes and be prepared for UKOK attacks on everything.

      Jeez, if we announce iScottish postage stamps were to be slightly bigger or smaller, they would come up with some way to spin negative stories coordinated across all media. It’s what we are up against. Give them nothing, prepare for everything.

    119. Jamie says:

      The job of the BBC is to defend the union, regardless of what they say, this is just another example of that, rightly highlighted. I suppose this is a reason why it is known as the Biased Broadcasting Corporation.

    120. Indigo says:

      If anyone has some spare pennies burning a hole in their pocket occasional Wings contributor Mark Frankland is fundraising to keep First Base running over the winter

    121. Robert Louis says:

      No, you folks have it wrong. This blatant bias by the BBC is not deliberate, it’s just down to incompetence and poor management. Honestly. The fact that such bias is always damaging ONLY to the SNP and Scottish independence, is (cough, cough) purely coincidental.

    122. Stoker says:

      Cameron, yer bein’ a tad unfair oan the musicians there! 🙂

      I see from the WOS twitter the BBC has edited that Stiglitz piece but left the most important part untouched – the lying headline!

      Also, no mention of any of this on the 6pm headlines, will they wait until the actual Reporting Shiteland News programme at 6:30pm? More than likely!

    123. msean says:

      I think those who have the power to review and change the bbc charter,pay for it and ok who the boss is controls effectively what it puts out. That isn’t Jeremy Corbyn or Labour,the SNP or the Lib Dems or the Green Party at this moment in time.

    124. Macbeda says:

      O/T ever so slightly

      It seems we are not alone in being able to understand the Tores in England.

    125. gordoz says:

      STV at it as well there.

      Guid scots all !!

    126. Fran says:

      @ call me dave 5.08

      Exactly, especially when her pals in WM have just voted to cut NHS funding

    127. K1 says:

      Excellent, Wings (Rev’s) persistence paid off, they have changed the headline.

      Damage done no doubt, nonetheless Wings gives you clout! Check oot his twitter feed.

    128. Dan Huil says:

      It’s fair to say the bbc in Scotland is acting as the prime media outlet of an occupying force. Those of us who can easily see this have a duty to ridicule the bbc at every opportunity, while at the same time, via sites like WOS and Indyref2, refuting the lies emanating from its bunker in Berlin, sorry, London. We also have a duty to enlighten those weak souls who are seemingly happy to be fed these britnat lies, which, like mind-numbing bacteria, are mixed in with the daily diet of game shows and sporting events.

      Every time the bbc comes on the pub tv, especially its “news” bulletins, turn your back to the screen and laugh. You may wish to utter such pithy bon mots as: “whit a heap o britnat shite!” Or, “only eejits pay the bbc tax!”

      It is illogical to help finance the media of this occupying force. Don’t pay the bbc tax.

    129. Truth says:

      And the BBC will never get a penny out of me.

      Starve them people, please.

      This behaviour does not deserve reward.

    130. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m pretty sure I suggested when the EU ref was announced, that the Establishment would not allow a Brexit. I suppose time will tell. Stoking xenophobia was essential in shifting the political ‘center’ to the right but the Establishment knows their interests are best served in Europe.

      Now all they have to do is keep a lid on an isolationist England that may well feel betrayed. I’m sure the BBC will play a key roll in educating the public.

    131. sinky says:

      STV hosting SNP deputy leaders debate on Scotland Tonight at 10.40 this evening.

    132. louis.b.argyll says:

      Cal, 3.08pm..

      No prob, just actually confused myself.
      You’re right enough.

    133. Stoker says:

      K1 wrote:
      “Excellent, Wings (Rev’s) persistence paid off, they have changed the headline.”

      Yip, damage done! Better late than never i suppose but it does make very clear one thing, K1, that the BBC’ Philip Sim is just another lying worthless turd employed by the British Bullshit Corp and not even a polished one at that!

    134. Dan Huil says:

      @sinky 7;12pm

      Sounds like an opportunity for stv to try out a few more britnat lies masquerading as questions.

    135. Cal says:

      Louis b Argyll@7.19pm

      No problem min. It’s cool.

    136. louis.b.argyll says:

      The article, now updated, is still not quite right.

      The full phrase is there but the words ‘may have been a..’ appear as if paraphrased, split up from ‘mistake’

      Making the word ‘mistake’ seemingly, the decisive part of the phrase.

    137. Robert Graham says:

      Just caught the news that STV are hosting the deputy leader debate, has someone in the SNP totally lost the bleedn plot had a brain fart can’t they see the obvious trap that is starting them in the face, for a kickoff this is a vote for SNP members not an opportunity to give a hostile media headed by the BBC a free kick as if they needed an excuse I can’t believe they have been so bloody stupid

    138. Stoker says:

      @ louis.b.argyll (7:37pm)

      And this is exactly how they’re emphasising it on their Text service: Blah blah de blah blah blah “mistake”…
      (btw folks, the blah blahs are mine 😉 )

    139. Robert Graham

      Whit? You have lost me completely.

    140. Croompenstein says:

      Next they’ll be wanting me to wear a yellow thistle 🙁

    141. heedtracker says:

      They changed it a little bit. Maybe Uk journalism is just one of those professions that dont make sense to the outside world eg,

      If I was a journo and a lefty vile sep, I could just about work for SLabour, SNP surely and without getting paid, but how to even keep a straight face trying to communications directororise the Scottish tory comedy show.

      My Slovene girlfriend’s barking mad for starters, Ruthie babes is a bit sad behind that rictus grin, tweed is too itchie, am uncomfortable around rich entitled ex public school boy twits called Rufus and Henry and then there’s rugger buggers. Snooty ex public school girl’s are good fun though.

      There’s always an upside if you really look. That must be extreme right Con Roden’s trick.

    142. Croompenstein says:

      Certainly wasn’t Torrance who wrote this…

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      Seems a shame to waste a posting at the tail end of a Herald thread, so here it is, warts and all.

      The Fiscal Commission Working Group with Stiglitz on board produced their report on currency for the Indy ref in 2014, and quite obviously it had a remit to concentrate on the shared currency – the formal currency union. It looked at the other options, but not in detail, nor did it really weigh one up against the other. In that respect it’s similar to the UK Government first report which had a remit to concentrate on the rUK being the Continuing UK to examine the status of inheritability of treaties – and assets. Ironically especially the EU membership.

      I guess neither the FCWG or professors Crawford & Boyle can be criticised for incomplete consideration of other options, but it does show the problem with having reports commissioned by Government – there’s a directional remit that prevents full analysis and fair assessment of different options, it’s “get me this result”. That’s a waste of the talent employed in the report production.

      I can understand the reasoning for it, Government has policies it wants to pursue, but the Scottish Government and the UK one should move to making such investigations and considerations truly independent and free roaming in future. These reports should help form their policy, not “prove” it’s the right one.

      Yes, our own currency is the best option, I would say that we should also look at sterlingisation as a parallel currency option, with both in operation at the same time. And yes, it can be done, with currency virtually anything is possible including multi-currency like Scots Pound, Pound Sterling, Euro and Dollar all at the same time. The EU itself SHOULD be dual currency, local marks, franks, drachma, foreign euro. That would be robust resilient and adaptable, unlike the eurozone.

    144. heedtracker says:

      Croompenstein says:
      30 August, 2016 at 8:02 pm
      Next they’ll be wanting me to wear a yellow thistle

      That’s a bit harsh on Effie, he’s nuts. Next up, we’re all being marched down to the local football stadiums.

      The cause of ‘uber-unionism’ is starting to take a dark and sinister turn.

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      “get me this result”

      That was certainly the impression I got when I spent a brief period looking at Grant Aid Expenditure, when working in the Scottish Office Central Research Unit. The indicators chosen to study the cost-effectiveness of local government expenditure, did not appear the most logical, IMHO and that of other team members.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      @CameronB Brodie
      Report production should perhaps be put under the aegis of Audit Scotland who are geared up to be independent already.

    147. Smallaxe says:

      Effijy says, @ 2:30 pm:

      Sovereignty Justice and freedom

      Sovereignty Justice Peace and Freedom!

      Fixed that for you. 🙂

    148. Terry says:

      Agreed. The mistake was political. The Bank of England itself said after the referendum that of course scotland could have used the pound.

      I’d put money on this being a well constructed plan between Nicola, the govt, Stieglitz and Alex to set the scene for Friday. Alex will ‘carry the can” for the sterling pledge in the last referendum – as he did when he resigned. Nicola can venture forth with our own currency. Our govt is honest and believe in us. But for Indy ref 2 they know what they are up against. They’re going to box clever. The unionists showed their mucky lying hand last time and the SNP will outflank them this time. I could be wrong but I hope I’m not!

    149. McDuff says:

      We are all moaning about the MSM but that won`t achieve anything. We need 100,000 people turning up at rallies proclaiming enough is enough and getting the kind of publicity that cannot be ignored, because at the moment they are just laughing at us. The SNP also needs to be a lot more assertive and passionate when on screen as a lot of their performances are really awful.

    150. macnakamura says:

      It is really quite comforting to know that a world famous Nobel prize winning economist shares my opinion.

    151. Dr Jim says:

      What are the TV people going to do with themselves tonight 4 SNP Politicians NOT arguing with one another, NOT stabbing each other in the back, NOT plotting to oust their leader
      All working together to solve the mess the red and blue Tories put us in, and putting Scotland first at all times

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      I just checked and Stiglitz resigned from the UK Panama Papers advisory panel on 4th Sugust because of government interference so, he’s free!

      Yes, I think and hope there’s a plan coming together.

    153. Breeks says:

      STV holding a deputy leader debate at 10:40?

      That’s grand. In this part of Scotland, we are getting “On Assignment”. Somebody called Juliet Bremner is visiting fishermen in Portugal, then we are getting Ice Hockey from Morocco.

      Can’t think why the Borders votes Tory. It’s a complete mystery.

      You’ll be sure to let the Borders know who does well in the debate, won’t you? Thanks.

    154. defo says:

      Auntie is of, and for the established order. Always has been.
      Pays good too, if your copy’s in order.
      ‘The mugs pay. Haw haw’

    155. ScottishPsyche says:

      Stiglitz in the National tomorrow.

      Expect there will be a ‘forensic’ shredding with graphs in the Record some time soon…

    156. Tam Jardine says:

      From Kate Devlin in the herald: “A Nobel prize-winning adviser to Nicola Sturgeon has criticised the SNP’s call for an independent Scotland to use the pound.

      Joseph Stiglitz suggested that the proposal, in the run up to 2014’s referendum, was a mistake.” Did Prof Stiglitz do an interview after the BBC one I heard on the radio?

      I wonder what the Professor makes of her pish and that of the BBC. I think he would be astonished that Kate Devlin chooses to report his comments as being critical of the SNP (advised by none other than his good self).

      McDuff is right of course- we are taking on the media below the line and on social media. I liked it when we marched up to their front fucking door and told them what we thought of their “impartiality”.

      Meanwhile the herald is bigging up Brown’s latest ego trip. It is like groundhog day watching the press now- another intervention. Soon we will have “Lord” Darling giving a lecture or Cameron will bring out a book with private thoughts on how right he was. Torrance will have another friendly BBC tete a tete to cast down his enemies and their blasted opinions of his analysis. Bla bla bla.

      It is boring. And meanwhile we all get a little older. Scotland’s population diverges from the rest of the UK’s a little more (as it has done in every single solitary year of the 21st century so far, following a long established trend) while we await Westminster removing us from the EU against our will.

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam Jardine
      Better the Herald (and BBC) cover the story, than ignore it as so much other media does.

    158. Here we go again. They’ve got us all arguing about the currency again.

    159. defo says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says: at 10:24 pm
      “Here we go again. They’ve got us all arguing about the currency again.”

      It was going to happen, sooner or later anyhoo. Best soonest, not having even called Indyref2 yet.

      Who’s zooming who ? 😉

    160. Rock says:

      The BBC is and has always been Scotland’s enemy number one.

      Scotland will not be able to become independent as long as the BBC is there.

      Our top priority should not be a second independence referendum but the destruction of the BBC in Scotland once and for all.

      Does Derek Bateman still insist they are not doing it deliberately?

    161. Sandy says:

      STV now 10.50 PM.

      Ponce making an ass of himself. They’re too smart for him. Out of hs depth.

    162. Fireproofjim says:

      SNP deputy leader candidates, on STV tonight.
      All excellent and difficult to choose. We are so lucky to have such a talented bunch and such a great leader.

    163. Gary45% says:

      One more day to go.
      As an honest citizen who has NOT WATCHED live TV since stopping the licence, I only have one more day of EBC I-Player.
      Then I can say GIRUTFLOT.
      No more Lies getting beamed into my house, and NO surprise Empire Shortbread are still Lying.
      Tick Tock.

    164. That was absolutely excellent! Ponsonby is a good guy (know what I mean?) but no other Scottish party could have put up a selection of candidates of that calibre.

    165. Sandy says:

      Wish all these whingers who complain that the the SNP get on with the job of running the country would realise that their hands are tied.
      If future, should England/Wales need our help, we, I am sure, will look at the situation with a degree of sympathy but any aid will be on OUR terms.

    166. Chic McGregor says:

      Nobel laureate economist now regrets advocating retaining the pound as it is now going down the shitter with the rUK.

    167. punklin says:

      BBC and yoon media true to form overstate the case but I feel strangely.encouraged by Stiglitz’s hindsight view of this ‘mistake’ cos it helps us see more clearly how we must not give our opponents at Westminster any chance to scupper our plans through non co operation.

      We know now how dirtily they will play it so we should make nothing dependent on their involvement in any way whatsoever .

    168. Still Positive. says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 11.04.

      Good that Angus said at the end they all get on and like each other. Can’t decide who I’ll vote for – leaning towards Alyn Smith but can’t think what order I’ll put the others in.

    169. heedtracker says:

      Red tory SLab guys are mad as ever to watch going after poor old JC but Euan McSpanner and Lady Darling are an odd twitter couple of yoons.

      Why Maggie Vaughn doesn’t use her Ladyship title is my teamGB mystery of the day. She certainly UKOK faught for it. Also very funny was her defence of his Lordship a few years ago, “Her Ladyship blew up to one friend: ‘The fucking cunts are trying to stitch up Alistair! The cunts! I can’t ­believe they’re such cunts!'” rancid The Graun, Monday 22 February 2010 19.00 GMT

      Brian Spokemon Retweeted

      maggie vaughan ?@maggivaughan 29m29 minutes ago
      maggie vaughan Retweeted First Minister
      Ahem. Schools, health, that kind of stuff? Stuff you’ve responsibility for, mind? How’s it going?

      First Minister @ScotGovFM
      FM @NicolaSturgeon and Standing Council on Europe discuss how Brexit threatens human rights and social protections

    170. Famous15 says:

      Brilliant candidates.Brilliant debate.

      At the end messages read out by viewers included the usual Tory writing club saying the SNP should get on with the business of government and stop talking about indyref2.

      Well clearly the SNP have such quality in the party that we can do both. Do not ask Ruth to think and chew chewing gum as such multitasking is clearly beyond the comprehension of Tories.

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      Alan Miller @ the Scottish Human Rights Commission
      What about the people of Scotland’s right to development?

    172. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cal says: 30 August, 2016 at 3:08 pm:

      ” … I also think we should learn the lesson and choose one of the other currency options from the list in the White Paper-one that doesn’t involve relying on non existant goodwill from Westminster (page 110). That’s all my I think you may have been listening/viewing/reading far too much Yoon propaganda, Cal.

      You quite obviously have absorbed the lies and distortions of the Yoonatics. Let’s just get a few facts correct, shall we?

      Fact one is that on 1st May 1707 the United Kingdom was begun. It remains legally exactly what it describes itself as today – A UNITED KINGDMOM”.

      As such it has only two member Kingdoms The Kingdom of Scotland that contains only the country of Scotland and the Kingdom of England that contains three countries as the English Kingdom annexed the Princedom of Wales in 1284, by the Statute of Rhuddlan, and annexed the Kingdom of Ireland by forcing the parliament of Ireland to pass, “The Crown of Ireland Act, (1542). You will find no other signatories on the Treaty of Union agreement that the two Kingdoms of Scotland & England and these two are legally equally sovereign signatories.

      Having established fact one let us consider some other legal facts. Due to the two kingdoms having incompatible legal systems, The English Kingdom was, and still is, “A Constitutional Monarchy”, in which the monarch remains sovereign but has delegated their sovereignty, “The Right of Kings”, to the Parliament of England when, in 1688, they deposed the English Monarch and imported the foreign King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange but forced them to accept the conditions of delegating their sovereignty to the parliament of England.

      Scotland, then still independent, had NOT deposed their monarch but had long, since at least 1320, had a monarch who was NOT legally sovereign and hence could not legally give up Scottish sovereignty as it is the people of Scotland who legally hold sovereignty in Scotland.

      Which was why the two kingdoms were still fighting the Scottish Jacobite uprisings at Culloden in 1745 long after the Scottish Parliamentarians sold Scotland’s independence for their own personal gain. So the two legal systems were incompatible and to get the treaty signed there had to be compromise.

      This is seen in the text of the Treaty as the Scottish legal system to remain independent forever. The English Monarch not allowed to head a Scottish Church and the Scottish Education system totally independent.

      Yet it also states that BOTH kingdoms currency will be the Pound Sterling and further states that Scottish Banks have the legal right to print their own banknotes.

      Thus the Pound Sterling IS legally Scotland’s Currency and Scottish banknotes are already recognisably different, (enough for London businesspeople to refuse to take them or demand Scots accept less than their face value).

      The fact is that not only will there NOT be a legal United Kingdom when the two kingdoms split up but the Scottish Pound Sterling need not be tied to the English Pound Sterling accept by agreement.

      In other words the legal Status Quo Ante upon Scotland ending the Union is reversion to the pre-treaty status of two independent kingdoms as the United Kingdom is not, and never has been, a country.

      Thus there will be no legal UK and the UK, not England, owned the Bank of England that was never in its entire history owned by the country or kingdom of England. I started as a private company and remained so until being nationalised by the two kingdom UK government in 1946.

      There is nothing legal that states Scotland’s share of the assets should be based upon population ratios and there will not be a legal UK when the two partner kingdoms split up.

      So tell me why you assume otherwise?

    173. Sandy says:

      “Would” read “should”.

    174. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT. I just read David Jamieson’s article in Commonspace, re. the “Festival of Ideas”. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the cross-pollination of ideas, so all good there. Perhaps I am over-simplifying things but I would have expected a difference in price between the SECC and Aberdeen. What I was wondering was, in what way are the SNP responsible for SECC accommodation pricing? Also, should the SNP and there membership be expected to subsidies the ancillary exhibitors?

      Planning for the parallel event, provisionally called “IdeaSpace”, began after organisations decided they could not afford spaces at the Scottish Exhibition and Conference Centre (SECC), as the SNP had hiked prices considerably since the party’s last annual conference in Aberdeen.

    175. scottieDog says:

      Glad the snp and their advisors are seeing sense.
      Floating currency is the way fwd and now we are seeing the pish rain down all over twitter that we will be bankrupt etc and the currency will devalue forever (not that this makes any sense,)

    176. Dal Riata says:

      On the late News Where You Are, they were still going on about Stiglitz’s “mistake” comment, ffs!

      But, more importantly (lol), who was that youngster with the bad herpes simplex virus round about his geggy doing the ‘reporting’? Christ, what a scary coupon that was! Good ad for Pathetic Quay, but – their lies is now manifesting itself on the coupons of their rubbish, lying ‘reporters’.

      Watch out for further outbreaks of herpes simplex virus (other viruses are, of course, available) as we proceed onwards to IndyRef2!

    177. Valerie says:

      What an embarrassment of riches! 4 quality candidates acting with dignity and intelligence.

      I really like Alyn Smith. Met him at my local branch, passionate speaker, lovely guy. Equally I so like and respect Angus. What a job he has done at WM, guiding that group, and his own PMQs performance.

      Meanwhile, on the Sky press review…. great excitement at Ed Balls up coming appearance on Strictly, timed to coincide with his book extracts being run in The Times.

      Compare and contrast, compare and contrast…

    178. manandboy says:

      Heard a bit on the car radio an hr or so ago, in which it stated that you would pay more tax on a single Macbook than Apple Corporation paid in Europe in 2015/16.

      Perhaps a rebranding of the company might be appropriate. How’s about Bad Apple. Myself, I’d settle for Rotten Apple.

    179. manandboy says:

      In the same piece on Apple’s tax avoidance, a guy from the US offered the opinion that it is well known that the UK Government, more than any other worldwide, were the most active in promoting themselves, ie London/UK, as a safe haven for Companies wishing to minimise their tax liabilities. So, David Cameron again batting for the corrupt City of London and the decadent British Establishment. No surprise there then.

    180. Sandy says:

      Gordon Brown at Edinburgh festival.
      “I think Income Tax will double in Scotland after independence”. “I think SNP is clueless regarding finance” or words to that effect. What a PLONKER. We all know what his THINKING did to English finances with its knock-on effect to Scotland, PFI etc.
      Take a look at his record. If he was employed by Citizens Advice, his main task would be sweeping the floor or maybe, just maybe, making the tea/coffee.

    181. Ghillie says:

      Dear Rev Stu,

      You are the Bane of the BUM !!

      Just keep doing what you are doing = )

    182. Graeme says:

      “I think in hindsight that may have been a mistake.”

      The BBC as per usual have twisted Stiglitz comment completely out of context

      The operative word here is “hindsight” which is something none of us have when we make a decision on anything any more than we can look into the future, it’s a bit like saying in hindsight I think it may have been a mistake we didn’t drown Thomas Hamilton at birth.

      If it was a mistake it wasn’t because it was a bad idea it was because it depended on the goodwill and honesty of the UK Government and in hindsight that’s something we now know is always a mistake


    183. Tam Jardine says:

      Robert Peffers

      My understanding of the Scottish dough is that it is backed up by mega notes of English sterling bought from the bank of England and held there. These “Giants” and “Titans” worth £1m and £100m respectively mean the Scottish notes are backed up and the “promise to pay the bearer etc” can be fulfilled. And the Bank of England is backed up by the “UK’s official holdings of international reserves comprise gold, foreign currency assets, International Monetary Fund (IMF Special Drawing Rights (SDRs), and the UK’s Reserve Tranche Position (RTP) at the IMF.” (source- Bank of England website).

      With all talk of the Scottish Pound etc I cannot get my head around what we are looking for and what we have already.

      We have a distinctive currency issued by 3 banks. These notes are backed up by an equivalent sum in Bank of England notes held by the bank of England. And in addition to all the vast quantity of BOE notes represented by all these titans and giants we have our share of foreign currency reserves, gold and other financial backups through the IMF.

      The Scottish Pound already exists and is backed up by foreign currency reserves. Do we not need to withdraw all of our reserves from the Bank of England, house them in Scotland and proceed? As with so many issues I cannot help thinking: how many independent countries start life with a separate currency already fully backed up by foreign currency reserves and gold?

    184. Nana says:

      Morning everyone. Links posted on off topic

    185. Cal says:

      Robert Peffers@11.53pm

      Ha ha, yes, you are of course correct in your analysis that it’s Scotland’s pound and we have every right to use it. In practice, however we depend on the recognition of this legal fact by Westminster and the international community and that I fear will not be forthcoming. You can argue legal facts as long as you like but if no one recognizes them you’re going nowhere. The sides the international community takes on such matters are not just based on law but on diplomacy and mutual benefit etc.

      I’d be delighted to be proved wrong but a more likely scenario is that we’ll end up parting company with our own currency and no debt. We’d also not have a share of assets unfortunately. In short, we’d do what Britain’s colonies have often done when they left the empire even though we are NOT and NEVER have been a colony.

      It’s the difference between theory and practice I guess. We’ll need to agree to disagree I think!

    186. Sinky says:

      Owen Smith on BBC Radio Shortbread at 8.15 am “recent GERS figures show benefit of the Union”.

      Gary Robertson challenging him on broken Ref1 promises.

    187. Famous15 says:

      Owen Smith being fried on GMS .

      He reads the Scottish press and thinks they tell the truth about the NHS.

      Eye wattering eye opener on the end of Labour.

    188. Naina Tal says:

      Sinky: Agreed… Gary came up in my estimation there (well up 1 point). One swallow and all that!

    189. Macart says:

      The usual suspects on the Stiglitz interview –

      Murdo Fraser said: “There is a simple solution for the SNP on the currency. It’s called the UK pound and most people in Scotland would like to keep it.

      “The SNP needs to accept the result of the referendum two years ago and got on with the job of governing.”

      So basically ignore the mandate and will of the Scottish electorate in this referendum in favour of the mandate given in a prior referendum. That about right Murdo?

      Kezia Dugdale added: “What we have today works. Being part of the UK means we can use the pound and have access to the Bank of England in times of difficulty for our economy. That’s a positive argument for remaining in the UK.

      “Instead of agitating for a second independence referendum, the SNP should focus on the bread and butter issues of government, like getting people back into work and giving everybody a fair chance in life.”

      What we have today patently doesn’t work, it’s kinda why the pound crashed to a 31 year low and capital flight is already underway as companies have begun moving those brass plaques in the wake of the Brexit result. Oh and don’t get me started about Philip Hammond’s ‘fiscal reset’ or ongoing austerity ideology. Our EU and other overseas nationals number in six figures. They are RESIDENT in Scotland NOW and our electorate voted resoundingly to stay a member of the EU.

      In short Kezia, its the day job of the First Minister of Scotland to protect the interests of ALL of the ‘PEOPLES’ of Scotland. This is NOT about agitating for another referendum. It IS about protecting the democratic rights and mandate of the people. IT IS ABOUT DEMOCRACY PERIOD!

      We have had two referendums, the results of which are now constitutionally incompatible. It WAS Better Together and the unionist parties who promised and assured the Scottish electorate that they would guarantee Scotland’s membership of the EU. THEY FAILED!

      Just as they have failed to deliver on everything else they promised the electorate of Scotland and as per usual, it is up to others to clean up the mess THEY created.

      Well done to Labour and the Conservatives for successfully managing to screw a victory up so badly in their rush to sit in a big chair, they’ve made life a fucking misery for almost everyone across these islands. Round of applause please. They’ve earned it.

      Willie Rennie said: “The SNPs favourite economist has now criticised Nicola Sturgeon’s favourite policy. Imagine the chaos we would now be in if we had followed her advice then.”

      As for Willie? His own words should be enough to give you the full scope of his grasp of currency and economics.


      To be clear – We are where we are today because of the actions of the three unionist parties and it will more than likely require a third referendum to square the circle. Not because its what we want, or what the First Minister and the SNP want, but because it is democratically the right way to settle the constitutional clusterfuck that has been dumped in the laps of the Scottish electorate by the parties of those three individuals above.

      What royally pisses me off is that STILL these people are playing politics. That STILL they show absolutely ZERO moral centre and a willingness to accept responsibility for the results of their own actions and pledges. Its always the other guy’s fault and besides insulting the public’s intelligence is second nature by this point.

      Its getting to be a bit tiresome by this point to say the least. So how about this. Just for once in your lives hold your hands up and admit your responsibility. Admit there are consequences for YOUR failures and start being part of the fucking solution instead of being the source of the problem.

    190. Frank Kemp says:

      A Scots currency would have been devalued against the USD by the fall in oil price, reducing the fall in oil Income, and stimulating the rest of the economy.

      An effect Scotland is only experiencing now thanks to the devaluation of Sterling caused by Brexit.

      In addition a Scots currency would give Scotland a fresh start without financing Sterling debt as already pointed out on this website.

    191. Michael McCabe says:

      Now I get it. A Apple a day keeps the taxman at Bay

    192. galamcennalath says:

      Famous15 says:

      “Eye wattering eye opener on the end of Labour.”

      There’s a YouGov poll from among Labour members which shows Corbyn comfortably ahead and no matter which wins, a sizeable minority are willing to take the huff and form a breakaway party.

      This also implies Kez and SLab have nailed their colours to the loser.

      So ‘end of Labour’ it may well be.

      Personally speaking, the more damaged Labour becomes, the clearer the lines are drawn between YES and NO where the only significant Unionist force left is the Tories. It is in the interests of the Scottish campaign for self determination that the Tories are seen as its main opposition.

      There is another slim possibility. Scottish politics is now totally different from London’s. The main fracture zone is not between Lab and Tory here, it is between YES and NO. If Labour were to split, it is just possible it could split along Scottish fault lines ie pro and anti Indy factions.

    193. Legerwood says:

      “Nana says:
      31 August, 2016 at 8:12 am
      Morning everyone. Links posted on off topic”

      Where is ‘official topic’?

    194. Legerwood says:


      ******* Predictive text

    195. scottieDog says:

      @Tam Jardine
      The intention of the peel act of 1844 was to limit the creation of bank notes to a single entity – The Bank Of England. As you say each scottish note released in circulation is backed by an English note via process of seniorage.

      We could go into semantics of keeping the pound but it would be hugely advantageous on the long run to just start from scratch with a scottish pound. We need to seek some shelter from the carnage that is coming from WM. We can’t do that by sharing a currency.

      It would allow us to freely raise money for the infrastructure programmes we need and invest in our exports. The windfall (in terms of lower deficits) will come later.

      A good example of this is the Low deficit of london and SE. This is the result of the banks being underwritten by the state in 2009. £1Tr pumped in by uk gov plus the schemes such ad help to buy to get banks lending again allowed these over inflated salaries and bonuses to continue. It still continues and we are heading for another financial disaster. Snp should be shouting this from rooftops.

      It’s important to note that the wealth of a nation isn’t limited by its stock of its own currency – since 1971 nations have been able to create that to infinity (but you obviously wouldnt want to!).
      Rather wealth and success is down to its sovereign resources plus what it can import.

    196. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      “We have had two referendums, the results of which are now constitutionally incompatible.”

      … and that is the essence of our situation.

      And, you are 100% right that it has turned out that way, not by anything done in Scotland, but by actions of Unionists in London.

      The Unionists have overruled the outcome of IndyRef1 with a string of broken promised culmination with the Grand Daddy of dragging us out of the EU.

      So IndyRef2 is needed to resolve the inevitable impasse. Although fancy solutions for a different relationship for Scotland needs to be put on the table and explored, they will soon be knocked onto the floor. The choice will be Indy or separatist rightwing UK.

      In a few years we may be eternally grateful to David Cameron for presenting us with such a clear choice. He threw away his IndyRef1 win and brought about the incomparable Leave win.

    197. Another Union Dividend says:

      Herald front page reports on rift between Alex Rowley and some other guy in Fife Labour over Cllr Lockhart’s support for Independence.

      Telegraph reports Labour MP wants expenses free for all.

      New Scottish Daily Mail political editor blames Indy Ref2 prospect for slump in investment,forgetting that UK government still controls the main economic powers, but at least its no another increased terrorist threat because of independence.

    198. Dr Jim says:

      As Owen Smith wafts out of GMS studios on a warm breeze this morning to rest himself on an adjacent cloud to Kezia’s we now all know for sure the depth and gravitas of this potential future Caesar of the Labour party his policies and opinions, which are deeply rooted in…Whoops! There he goes on another gust of warm air off into the ether sphere

      I keep trying to think of the word for him, and old but well used Scots adjective…Yes! Got it!


    199. Tinto Chiel says:

      Legerwood, you’ll find it if you use the search box at the top right of the page.

      Be careful, It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world in there.

    200. Effijy says:

      A source within the Tory Cabinet has confirmed that the head of IS Propaganda has not been killed but he has been captured and is now on £250,000 per annum at BBC Scotland’s Pacific Quay Headquarters.

      Other Cabinet Ministers felt that the current BBC propaganda team were not hard enough on any positive stories coming out of the Colony.

      Cut price alcohol, and free Bingo was to be introduced to keep the SLab supporters on-side with the Westminster Government’s regime, however test showed that they were not very good with numbers.

      Free Face Painting will instead be introduced, but no more than two per two faced member of the party.

    201. scottieDog says:

      @Tam Jardine
      Also a point on foreign reserves.
      They are important but not nearly as much if the currency is floating (not pegged to a foreign currency).

      If we have a decent export capability then we can generate foreign reserves.

      I think rather than defend a position on the viability of an indy scotland yes2 should be going all out to expose the economic ineptitude of successive uk govts.

    202. Legerwood says:

      Tinto Chiel @ 9.10am

      Thanks, got it now. Mad indeed

    203. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T but heartening.

      My Apple iPhone failed after four months and as a consequence I visited the Apple Store in Edinburgh.

      I was sat down to wait at a table and there was a couple opposite. He started our conversation by remarking on my lapel badge showing conjoined flags. The Stars of the EU and The Saltire. He asked how I envisaged the continuance of that juxtaposition. I replied simply “Independence”.

      He voted “remain” as a tactic to further independence.

      I expanded that I believed strongly in the European Project and that my father’s brother whom I am called after was killed in Russia during wartime. I never new him. He was effectively stolen from me.

      Anyway there are many hidden and not so hidden supporters of Independence. Even not-so-young people from our border country.

      And finally Apple gave me a brand new replacement phone free of charge.

      I left to walk happily in the sunshine in our Capital City. Good Karma!

    204. Nana says:


      Was about to give you directions to the madhouse. Tinto Chiel got there first.

      Owen Smith on GMS this morning

    205. Tinto Chiel says:

      “What royally pisses me off is that STILL these people are playing politics. That STILL they show absolutely ZERO moral centre and a willingness to accept responsibility for the results of their own actions and pledges. Its always the other guy’s fault and besides insulting the public’s intelligence is second nature by this point.”

      Don’t laugh, Macart but before 2014 I had some respect for individuals in what we now know are simply Unionist parties, although I have only ever voted SNP. Charles Kennedy was probably the best example but he was royally stitched up the jackals in his own party and now the Libdems could hardly be lower in anybody’s estimation.

      Now that we’ve all had our eyes opened by the last two years, it is this behaviour which you describe which I find most repellent, along with their utter dishonesty. Most people don’t like telling lies because it’s not good for you in the long term but it seems it’s the default setting for Yoon politicians now (and probably always was for 99% of them). Their constant running down of their own country is also disgusting and can’t be good for their mental health. I sometimes think I can see the consequences when I observe Gordon Brown’s behaviour: the nervous ticks, the exaggerated gestures, the constant pacing up and down like the sad polar bear in Embra Zoo.

      I feel history will be very harsh on these types but they will have brought it on themselves.

      You either believe in your country or you don’t and these sad sacks don’t.


    206. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Macart 8:37

      That post was a beezer!!

      Did you read it, Kex, Ruthie, Wee Willie? YOU and YOUR policies caused the present clusterfuck of a predicament. It is YOUR mess the Scottish Government is trying to resolve.

      “…it will more than likely require a third referendum to square the circle.”

      Third time’s the charm.

    207. heedtracker says:

      “Eye wattering eye opener on the end of Labour.”

      There’s a YouGov poll from among Labour members which shows Corbyn comfortably ahead and no matter which wins,

      Twitter follow SLab socialist worker dudes like Wullie Young frae Aberdeen, its a extremely far right line up of Daily Mail, Daily Express, Scottish tory, Press and Journal, Jill the History woman, we hate SNP don’t we, but we hate Corbyn even more too, bad tory jokes, from assorted tory idiots and lots of actual tory MSP twits, perennial BBC Scotland SNP bad news and stuff like

      William Young ?@youngwd1 Aug 29
      @tartanwarrior58 @EEadele Never forget @AberdeenCC Supported the AWPR by providing £75million to the project.

      Lest we forget.

      SLabour guys like Wullie blocked all transport infrastructure development and investment for the north and east of Scotland for 40 years, nearly bankrupted Aberdeen, refused point blank to build any social housing, legally banned FM Salmond from Aberdeen and so on.

      So far so red tory but if JC does win, Scottish socialist workers like Wullie are going to be even weirder to watch, let alone vote for.

    208. Naina Tal says:

      OT re Tescos
      Don’t go there much nowadays, but felt the seekness in the pit o ma stomach the number o butcher’s aprons aboot the place. Dinnae remember it being jist as bad. Was jist in tae pit the Nationals oan tap o the Record and the Scotsman, but ah had a wee wander roond.

      Sent the following tae “customer Services”:
      “Tesco clubcard is now in back of the log burner. Won’t be needing it you see. Won’t be back. I find it now impossible to shop at Tesco. All your products are plastered with the Union Jack which I and many others find totally offensive, as a symbol of occupation. This isn’t just about what you did with the strawberries. I know David Cameron started this push, to have the butcher’s apron on everything. He is gone now and forgotten. Time you forgot about this too unless you want to lose 60% of your Scottish customers. Or are Tescos really rabid British Nationalists?”

      Thought it worth postin’ the reply!

      “Thanks for your feedback.

      Your comments and concerns have been logged and taken on board.

      Kind regards,

      Claire Jenkins
      Tesco Customer Service
      Tesco Customer Engagement Centre”

      Dae ye think they’ll be takin it oan board?

    209. Macart says:

      @Tinto C

      ‘I had some respect for individuals in what we now know are simply Unionist parties’


      Needless to say, that is now firmly in the past tense.

    210. Les Wilson says:

      On GMS Smith firmly put slab in it’s place, what they say is irrelevant. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.

      They need to split from Westminster, and support Indy.
      Supporting Scotland is not in their DNA, it is alien thought to them but it is an answer to some sort of relevance in Scotland.

      If they do not do this and keep grovelling to Labour HQ, their meltdown will continue.

    211. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT. Re. Former First Minister Henry McLeish: tedious, snide and apparently not too bright.

      “Independence isn’t necessarily about their* kind of nationalism. It’s about wanting to be maybe like Finland, or Sweden or Denmark – the Nordic countries generally. We would have a different way of life, different social investment policies, be a genuinely social democratic country.” – Henry McLeish

      * those blood and soil Naz…Nas…Nationalists.

    212. heedtracker says:

      “Thanks for your feedback.

      Your comments and concerns have been logged and taken on board.

      Kind regards,

      Morrison’s sell their filled doughnuts, doughnuts NOT doughrings, in union jack boxes, today’s salted caramel, 50p a box of union jacked boxed goodness.

      Anyway I asked the extremely attractive Morrison’s customer services lady why Morrisons filled doughnuts are boxed in union jack flags and she started laughing. Turns out she’s from Lithuanian and I asked her if dounghrings, in super markets like Morrisons, in Lithuanian are also boxed in Lithuanian flags and she laughed even more.

    213. Proud Cybernat says:


      It’s not yet been announced but everyone and their granny knows IndyRe#2 is on the table and will be announced in the not too distant. The SG is already preparing legislation for it.

      That means we need to use the time we have NOW proactively. I say that because I very much suspect two things will happen:

      1) IndyRef#2 will be called suddenly.

      2) It will be a very short campaign, 3-6 months max.

      So we need to use the time we have to start campaigning NOW.

      My first port of call is to tackle the BBC. IMO, they were the biggest contributer by far to YES losing last time with their relentless anti-indy broadcasts.

      We obviously cannot stop their BritNat propaganda from being broadcast this time (it has never actually stopped) but we do have the means to significantly dull its impact. The BBC may well control the airwaves but WE control the streets.

      We need to get stickers made with a simple message: You Can’t Trust the BBC or Beware Biased Coverage – I’m sure you get the idea and can come up with many more suitable acronyms for that propaganda outfit of the British State.

      We get tens, hundreds of thousands, fucking MILLIONS of them printed and, my god, do we plaster them everywhere we can think: bus shelters, lamp-posts, drain-pipes, post-boxes, pavements, empty shop windows, Rooth’s Mooth, Kez’s forehead and Wee Willie’s arse. We get business cards printed with the same message. We leave them on buses, trains, planes, pubs, restaurants etc, etc.

      You get the idea.

      We get the message out there on the streets that the BBC cannot be trusted. We get it so that that State Propaganda Unit can broadcast all fucking day long but it is to no avail – the people will no longer be listening to them.

      That’s how we tackle the BBC.

    214. Hamish100 says:

      Most papers and News media are giving the Tories a free ride.
      Whether its immigration, ruk’s financial black hole, foreign affaires (although one did remark Johnston has a new haircut), nuclear energy debacle, defence – where’s the new frigates? Syria, Iraq oh and Brexit– remember that referendum thingy.

      Tories control the agenda supported in the main by tax evaders from foreign soils. Free Press? Don’t think so.

      ps Labour no deals with the snp. They are baaaaad people. Obviously the tories must be nicer in their sad wee minds.

    215. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @heedtracker –

      It’s the way you tell ’em!


    216. McBoxheid says:

      This whole Westminster control of the general younery thing that’s prevalent in North Britainshire reminded me of the Men In Black films where the galaxies are controlled by someone else. Where they play with them like marbles.

      Talking of which, me must have lost ours in Scotland, because the only people who aren’t allowed to control their own affairs are children and those that are sectioned.

      PS I hate fucking labour. I don’t really, it’s more like pity, but by saying that it will ensure I won’t be able to join them in a moment of madness.

      To be doubly sure:

      SNP all the way
      Who are labour anyway?

    217. Tinto Chiel says:

      heed tracker: glad your story with the Lovely Lady had a wholesome ending. Thought we were straying into Bill Tennant territory there…..

      Proud Cybernat: that could work really well because repetition is a powerful tool. It seems to scare the Establishment, too. Look what happened to the Wings Subway ads: panic all round.

      It’s like turning all their bent headlines back at them.

    218. ScottishPsyche says:

      Jeez! looking at the Rev’s twitter – those headlines he has RTed about the ‘deficit’ would make your blood run cold. It is like Lord Haw-haw is writing for the Express and the Mail.

      However, the letter in the FT from the prof at St Andrews is a welcome rebuttal summed up as:

      “These accounts do not conform to UN Convention on National Accounting or European System of National Accounts”.

      Perhaps that is the approach to be taken now. Slap these down as the inaccurate propaganda they are instead of engaging in minutiae and semantics.

    219. Fred says:

      Broon’s political demise combined with the Vow, the Slab collapse & post-Brexit furore plus the late cruel onslaught by Tam Dalyell,appears to have unhinged his mind completely. On the rare occasions he sallies furth of his heavily guarded villa at North Queensferry des Deux Eglises the man appears to be totally barking!

    220. McBoxheid says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      31 August, 2016 at 10:24 am

      That’s how we tackle the BBC.

      If everybody who stopped paying for the BBC put the equivalent of the fee into a Stop the BBC Bias Fund that would help cover the cost of your suggestion.

      It might even help pay for a jammer to block their frequencies. Any electronic wizards out there?

    221. ScottishPsyche says:

      If the UK government is deliberately withholding information and misinforming the electorate about the true state of the economy in Scotland, surely there must be some legal redress to counter this?

      How could (can) the Scottish people make an informed decision based on such falsehood?

    222. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “That’s how we tackle the BBC.”

      I agree. We can’t go head to head because that isn’t technically or financially possible.

      But we can undermine their message by drawing attention to bias and omission.

      In IndyRef1 you could say it was the false promises, or currency issues, or whatever which won it for NO. However, if the BBC had taken the role their charter tells them to, and scrutinised everything from everyone in an even handed manner, the BT bollocks would have been less successful.

      You can’t blame Unionists for trying even by using deception, that is what politics has become in the UK, you can blame the messenger for primarily delivering their crap and doing so uncritically.

    223. Ken500 says:

      AWPR cost £3/4Billion. ACC Unionist/Green have squandered £Millions on a ‘white elephant’ road to nowhere in Bridge of Don. £Million on a grotesque project building a concrete jungle and causing traffic chaos in the City Centre. Muse project. Refused a gift of £80Million to predestrianise the City Centre. UTG project with an exit to the Green. Totally against the majority wishes and the public interest. The majority want pedestrianisation and open spaces.

      They intend spending £300Million on a Conference Centre. The present on is used on average once a month and subsidised. Then they claim there is not enough for essential services. The Scottish Gov should not give them any more funds to waste and ensure they fund public services. May 2017.

      The Press should only be owned by British residents who pay tax. The Leveson recommendations should be implemented.

      No products need flags on them. Place of origin is all that’s required.

    224. galamcennalath says:

      ScottishPsyche says:

      “If the UK government is deliberately withholding information and misinforming the electorate about the true state of the economy in Scotland, surely there must be some legal redress to counter this?”

      Politicians tell lies. They are helped by a media which is uncritical of one side. Carmichael’s case – he lied, the court found he lied. However he lied for political reasons, which is fine and dandy, so nothing to answer for. If he had lied for personal gain, he as a politician would have been in trouble.

      So there we have it. Politicians lie, and it’s OK.

      In a democracy, a varied and independent media would highlight all their bad behaviour. Next election they would be out. A serious action, and they would have to resign immediately. Hopefully iScotland will be like this.

      So how are people to make informed decisions when they aren’t kept accurately informed? Some will trouble themselves to seek out the truth, many more will just get on with their lives. When voting time comes round they will make decisions without all the available info to help them.

      What can be done? Thankfully we have alternative media and grassroots in our asymmetrical campaign for self determination and democracy.

    225. gus1940 says:

      Our wonderful media is still banging on and misreporting/misinterpreting Stiglitz’s remarks.

      Is it not the case that what he meant was that it may have been a mistake to go for retention of the pound as it was not expected that WM would play dirty and refuse to contemplate acceptance of the idea.The possible mistake he refers to was to think that our colonial masters had the merest smidgin of honesty, decency and fair play.

      He did not contradict the opinion of Carney and many other experts that retention of the pound would work and be to the advantage of both sides.

      I am pleasantly surprised to see that Glenn Campbell is reporting this morning from Chequers.

      Given that Catriona Renton’s move south looks permanent is it too much to hope that Campbell is following in her footsteps.

      The fact that we have also waved goodbye to Eleanor Bradford our favourite assassin of the Scottish NHS could mean that things may be starting to change for the better at PQ.

      We also have to celebrate the departure from the dead tree press of 2 of the most vociferous SNPbad attack dogs in the form of Gardham and Roden – could it be that they see the impending demise of their evil trade and are jumping ship before the final collapse.

    226. Another Union Dividend says:

      Michael Stewart has tweeted about letter from Prof Andrew Hughes Hallet in to-day’s FT taking GERS figures to bits

      Can anyone print out the letter (behind FT pay wall)

      Scottish oil and the case of the missing 45 per cent
      From Andrew Hughes Hallett. Sir, With reference to your editorial “Scottish independence and the Brexit paradox” (August 25), the latest national accounts for Scotland show that North Sea revenues have fallen 99 per cent from 2014 to 2016

    227. Petra says:

      I see that the BritNat Brainwashing Cabal has been at it again. Not surprising when you realise that broadcasting is influenced by individuals such as Sir Roger Carr (Chairman of BAE – UK leading Arms Dealer) and Rona Fairhead (links to HSBC – involved in tax evasion activity). Just two of over 35,000 BBC employees.

      No matter that the television was invented by a Scot and the BBC’s founding father, Lord Reith, was a Scot. Both are being used as a most influential propaganda machine now against US …. Scots.

      This Goebbels machine will stop at nothing to support and protect the Establishment so twisting the words of Joseph Stiglitz, who is clearly supporting Scottish Independence, is just par for the course. Why should they have qualms about p*ssing off the third most influential economist in the world when they have no compunction about attempting to influence minds, for example, by showing photographs of dozens of dead in Iraq (2003) and trying to make out they relate to the Houla Massacre in Syria (2012); and of course main aim of the game …. blame Assad (and sell more arms / rob Syria blind).

      As to Stiglitz: ‘Stiglitz has been a member of the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group since 2012, which oversees the work to establish a fiscal and macro economic framework for an independent Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Council of Economic Advisers.’

      Stiglitz like other prominent economists on the Committee no doubt thought that Westminster would act in a decent manner, more so in a way that would financially benefit both sides of the divide, during Indyref1. Well as we all know now (and some of us knew then) that was never going to happen. We’ll also have to watch our backs when we do get our Independence because our ‘friends’ down south will want to see us crash and burn.

      It’s been a learning curve and we’re now in the fortunate position of having another stab at this, in the very near future, and not repeating past mistakes.

      The SNP is well aware of where they went wrong last time round …. currency, pensions, advertising and so on.

      We know that that certain groups of people should be made exempt from voting next time round such as individuals with less than 5 years residency in Scotland (or even a year to block the ‘rent a flat for a month or two and vote brigade’), foreign / rUK students, short-term migrant workers, holiday home owners and so on.

      Exit polls should be carried out, International election observers should be in place, ballot papers should be checked and postal voting should be avoided. To name but a few things that we can do.…/scottish-referendum-rigged-mi5s…/

      We all know too that the meeja will up the ante from now until Indyref2, in particular making a big deal of our big, black economic hole and immigration in Scotland. We have few friends in the media so WE, and we alone, have to continue”to become the media”.

      We have to up the ante too because this could be our last ever chance of getting our Independence. Complain, complain, complain to the liars in question. Continue to post facts / data on here / all over the Internet, use billboards, carry informative placards and banners, at marches and town centre gatherings, with facts / references supporting an Independent Scotland and hammer them with data highlighting how sh*tty life is down south: How dire things will get if we are part of the ‘Better Together Brexit’.

      Support the one and ONLY daily newspaper that’s actually supporting us. Front page of The National today.

      And finally, last night four excellent SNP candidates made their case for being the next SNP Depute Leader. I’m supporting Tommy Sheppard because to my mind he’s identified our greatest weakness and is absolutely driven on resolving this / pulling it all together.

      ”.. We need to have an organisational structure … ridiculous that an organisation of this size has got one guy at Regional Headquarters trying to organise it … we need a professional staff of organisors in the eight regions … we need to involve all members … get the motor running but keep it in gear …. but be able to move quickly.


      @ Proud Cybernat says at 10:24 am ….

      Love your post CB and you’re spot on with all you have to say, especially ”WE CONTROL THE STREETS.”

      Add stickers to the placards, banners and billboards list of the (practically) sole means now of combating this propaganda.

      ”Get tens, hundreds of thousands, fucking MILLIONS of stickers printed and, my god, do we plaster them everywhere we can think: bus shelters, lamp-posts, drain-pipes, post-boxes, pavements, empty shop windows, Rooth’s Mooth, Kez’s forehead and Wee Willie’s arse…”

      Ha, ha, ha! Thanks for the laugh too.

    228. McBoxheid says:

      galamcennalath says: 11:11 am
      What can be done? Thankfully we have alternative media and grassroots in our asymmetrical campaign for self determination and democracy.

      Is a knock on the door by a grassroots member of the SNP once or twice in the run up to idyref2 enough to stop 24/7 propaganda from the MSM and BBC?

      A concerted campaign with billboard adverts, Vote Yes for Indepenence stickers/window posters. (see Proudcybernat’s post at 10:24 am) links on billboards to Wings for “The Minister for Truth” speak out at MSM/BBC lies and bias (a nice play on words (Rev Stu)) need to be set up by a fundraiser and started now.

      It could coincide with the SNP and Green campaigns. The latter should start very soon. We as citizens can finance it and run it totally separate from any official campaign, because if the SG won’t do it someone else has to. We can do this.

    229. Proud Cybernat says:


      Okay – it seems there is some support out there to commence an Anti Beeb Bias Campaign producing stickers to be plastered all over the country and business cards to place in pubs, clubs, restaurants, cafes etc.

      I’ll have a look into the costs of getting labels printed up. We’ll also have to look into distribution. I know the Rev has a wee network for distributing the WBBs so perhaps we could hook into that.

      Once I get costs etc and consider it feasible, I’ll get a Crowd Fund going on Indigogo.

      All assistance appreciated as I have never done anything like this before. Perhaps a WoS Task Force to handle the project?

      Time to make the playing field a little more level.

    230. Robert Peffers says:

      @McBoxheid says: 31 August, 2016 at 10:53 am
      ” … It might even help pay for a jammer to block their frequencies. Any electronic wizards out there?”

      Better than jammers is to broadcast your own radio or tv stuff locally on the BBC frequencies.

      As to jamming – you do not need anything sophisticated and you do not want to do so from a fixed central location anyway.

      A very simple, but effective, interference device can be knocked up with just a soldering iron and either an electric bell or a relay.

      The bell is an already effective interference device and has to have suppression fitted to stop it interfering over a wide radio frequency spectrum.

      Just remove the metal dome and the suppressor and apply the electric current. It helps if you solder a length of wire as a broadcasting aerial to the bells electromagnet connection.

      Cross couple any relay and you get the same effect. These only affects a very local area but that is an advantage if there are enough such devices in operation. It is much harder for the authorities to detect so many smaller source and thus catch the many, “offenders”.

      If you doubt me think of the click you sometimes hear on radio or tv when you switch something on or off in the house. think of that at the frequency of a electric doorbell ringing.

    231. Valerie says:

      @Naina Tal at 10.10am

      Well done! I try to rearrange the newspapers, to be helpful like, but they are fly at my local outlet, as the Customer services chap stands next to the display.

      I made a complaint to the woman on the till, telling her my shop was well down, as I won’t buy anything with the Apron. I told her Scottish strawberries were local produce and I wanted to buy from suppliers that support Scots producers, and acknowledge their origin.

      The till lady was very sympathetic. The Tesco story broke that week in the Press, so I hope there was lots of chat in the staff room.

      Every little helps.

    232. Valerie says:

      @Another Union Dividend

      For others, Professor calls out GERS figures as illegal!

    233. Robert Louis says:

      Regarding Tesco’s and their utterly shameful behaviour against Scottish produce. Companies like that only notice one thing, MONEY. It is that simple. Make sure they are not used until such times as their policy of imposing the butcher’s apron on Scottish produce is reversed, and an apology forthcoming.

      They will, I assure you, be watching to see if it damages sales.

      Use TESCO’s for NOTHING, until the policy is changed.

    234. Ken500 says:

      The Tories were taxing the Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%, losing thousands of jobs. That’s why there was less investment. Scotland still raised the same in taxes £54Billion. The Defict is caused by Westminster mismanagement. Loss of Oil revenues £4Billion Trident £1Billion, no tax on ‘loss leading’ drink £1Billion, £4Billion debt repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. £3Billion on tax evasion. HMRC not for purpose. Total £13Billion.

      The Tories don’t know what to do next. T. May wants politicians to come up with ideas because she doesn’t have a clue.At least the EU has held Apple to account.

    235. O/T

      As a matter of general interest the crowdfunder set up by Celtic supporters for Palestinian charities is approaching £165,000 (from an initial target of £15,000)

      The Celtic v Barcelona match is going to be a strange flag experience -tricolours,Saltires, Catalan flags and Palestinian ones.

    236. call me dave says:

      Missed all the fun on radio shortbread this morning. Cracking link to the Owen interview though. Thanks again.

      @Naina Tal

      I was in Asda this morning and was taken aback at the meat counter. Scottish beef with Saltires on the pack an everything.

      🙂 A wee change there from my last visit.

      Opted for the Scottish ‘Swedish meatballs’ for the spaghetti as the grandchildren coming to tea

      Patients say hospital stays are making them more ill and staff lack compassion

      The survey, conducted on behalf of the Scottish Government, found 90 per cent of patients treated in hospital last year rated their overall care as excellent or good. However, it exposed some key issues, with 23 per cent saying their condition worsened while they were on the wards.

      It then goes on to look on the dark side but low and behold there is some good bits. Like the curates egg.

      Ach well that’s Scotland.

      The patient satisfaction report yesterday was too much like good news.

    237. Tinto Chiel says:

      Good post, Petra.

      And just to piss off WM can we have EU electoral observers.

      Did BBC Scotland miss the story that patient satisfaction with the Scottish Health Service is at a record 82.8%?

    238. Dr Jim says:

      The Press and TV Media will keep talking and printing more of the nonsense they do, not to convince us the YES folk, but to keep shoring up the NO voters

      Record numbers of English folk are moving to Scotland for all the obvious advantages we have to offer but in doing so and still believing the media rubbish will vote NO in the next referendum, these folk have to be made aware by doing that they will consign Scotland to the same fate as the country they just left with increasing privatisation of the NHS Tuition Fees Prescription Charges and massively overpriced and useless WMDs

      If Scotland loses the next Referendum and remains a part of the UK our own Scottish Government wont be able to hold back the tide that’s coming now that the EU has rejected TTIP the Westminster UK Government of either colour will welcome it with open arms and hail it the deal of the century

      Think very carefully new folk to Scotland, ask yourselves why you’re coming here for that better life only to reject the hopes that brought you here by allowing the UK to take it all away again

    239. Silver19 says:

      I get the impression right now that the MSM especially the Right-wing Scottish MSM including the BBC Scotland are really ramping up the their anti-independence stance and out and out negativity on everything about Scotland. It’s going into over drive to me it’s seems worse than pre-indyref in 2014. It’s like they have been told do this in combined campaign.

    240. Valerie says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      The amount the Celtic fans have amassed is awesome. Their display of the Palestinian flag really went around the world. I’m no football fan, but proud of these Scottish fans doing this.

      I saw a very sweet picture on Twitter of a Palestinian football team of youngsters, with a ‘We love you, Celtic’ banner.

    241. Tam Jardine says:


      Thanks for your responses. I am all for a new Scottish currency- what I am trying to establish is that this doesn’t look like such a leap from where I am standing when we already have A our own separate notes and B foreign reserves backing up said notes.

      There was very little mention of this during the first bout and general ignorance of the current position. The idea that we are starting out with nothing and have nothing and the howls of disbelief strike me as ridiculous and easily quashed.

      If we counted mention of ‘debt’ and ‘assets’ the former must have outweighed the latter by a huge factor.

      Your latter remark is excellent and a sentiment I agree with:

      “I think rather than defend a position on the viability of an indy scotland yes2 should be going all out to expose the economic ineptitude of successive uk govts.”

    242. Valerie says:

      On the Scottish currency, I think the Stiglitz story yesterday, then the Depute Leader Hastings last night with Ponsonby, are the start of SNP normalising this discussion.

      We are there, but the feart, and soft No vote have to be led through it. By ha ing the conversation, we can have the usual suspects out in force, deriding it, and they will be shot down.

      I think it’s kind of interesting the GERS kerfuffle is more of a whimper this year.

      Meanwhile, Tory cabinet having their Brexit means Brexit away day. Shameful.

      The vacuum in London is our big opportunity to get on getting everything lined up.

    243. Vambomarbeleye says:

      The BoE holds gold for many different country’s. This is pretty normal. Now! Can we argue that brown sold of the English gold but not the Scottish gold. Thus giving us a bigger share of what’s left.

    244. Breeks says:

      Another aspect of the currency debate is the extent to which the ground has moved beneath Sterling.

      In 2014, you could make a plausible argument that an independent Scotland needed a reason to make a change away from a stable currency and take a step into the unknown. (The Unknown wasn’t that much of a dark place anyway, but the “uncertainty” was more than enough for the media to peddle it’s myths).

      Post Brexit, with £125billion wiped off UK markets in the first few days, and who knows what lies ahead when Westminster does pull the trigger on Article 50. You suddenly have an entirely different landscape, where Scotland has an entirely credible argument for NOT having a currency union with the U.K. Pound.

      I still repeat however, the preferred choice of currency in its entirety, is a lower tier of argument than that of sovereignty.

    245. DerekM says:

      I have to agree with Mr Stiglitz it was maybe a mistake but the mistake was not the attempt to keep sterling but in trying to limit the damage to the rUK we put sterling front and centre of the debate which allowed them to play the big no to sterling union lie even when they knew that was the most logical solution for everybody if there was indy.

      This time fuck them new currency please.

    246. gus1940 says:


      Have just received my copy of the latest Private Eye.

      It features a ludicrously misleading column on Daisleygate which, if readers south of the border are sufficiently uninformed to believe, suggests with a straight face that the media in Scotland struggles to exist under Nicola Sturgeon’s crushing jackboot.

      It could almost have been written by Brian Wilson as it is well down to his usual poisonous standard of lying propaganda.

      While I appreciate that Ian Hislop is not a supporter of Independence as a long term reader of The Eye I expect it to keep to a policy of honesty far superior to that found in the mainstream media.

      Can I suggest to him that he searches for a replacement purveyor of Scottish items who has at least a basic acquaintance with telling the truth.

    247. Proud Cybernat says:


      Can someone give me the details of the wee Scottish company that does YES marketing stuff? Naturally I would like to give any sticky label making business to a Scottish Company.


    248. cearc says:

      Naina Tal,

      I maybe use Tesco about once a year at most but I found a new use for the clubcard when Lidl started accepting all cards. I now take great pleasure in paying for my regular trips to Lidl with a Tesco card!

      If lots of people avoiding Tesco did it would show in their usage analysis.

    249. Nana says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      Worth asking Rogue coder at

    250. Smallaxe says:

      @ Proud Cybernat: try this, Peace.

    251. gus1940 says:

      On further reading of The Eye I have just encountered a letter (not for the first time in The Eye) from that inveterate contributor of unionist verbal excreta to The Scotsman namely Alexander McKay.

      Anybody attaching any credence to its content would be led to believe that Scotland has been reeling under a ruthless SNP campaign of political violence over the last few years.

      Get a grip Hislop and do a little fact checking before publishing such lies in future.

    252. Proud Cybernat says:


      Thanks Nana. From their web site it doesn’t look like they do stickies.

      I found ‘Out of Hand Scotland’ based in Edinburgh and have asked them for a price for a LOT of stickies.


    253. Clootie says:

      …an easier explanation for the decline in Scottish millionaires is that they have registered in England to avoid any progressive tax change.
      A story that had a positive narrative had to have a negative spin…it’s the BBC

    254. harry mcaye says:

      Re billboard campaigns – how about a simple “Independence is Normal” for starters?

      Also, a twitter thingumybob, “Imagine for a moment that Scotland has always been an independent country” and then lists all the immense drawbacks of joining a union. It’s superb. We need stuff like that going through doors.

    255. mike cassidy says:

      Still haven’t changed my mind re currency as expressed in previous threads.

      We go into indyref2 saying we keep the pound.

      That’s it.

      We do not get involved in the ‘no you can’t, yes we can’ arguments which were disastrous last time.

      Post-independence, the people can decide whether to sign up for the euro, the dollar, the glass beads or whatever the feck we like.

      Check the Slovak approach.

      And one thing’s certain.

      Another Union Dividend 8.56

      There’s no point looking to Scottish Labour for salvation with WTF moments like this.

    256. Petra says:

      Just lost my last post. Grr!!!!!! Posting a very ‘shortened version’ now.

      Anyway this didn’t show up on my last post.


      Apologies to Proud Cybernat (PC) for calling him / her ‘CB’!

      Backing you re. fundraising. Maybe Stu would let us fundraise on here?


      Thanks for the Hallet Link Valerie. He was (is?) on the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Committee with economists Mirrlees and Stiglitz.

      I hope it gets circulated far and wide. I also reckon that this is the type of data we should have on placards and / or billboards.


      Nana not posting on here now? I wonder why as your links were a great attraction to this site / so informative, imo, and may be missed now.

    257. sinky says:

      gus1940 says:@ 1.08

      Responses to Private Eye letter (# 1426 should be quoted) by Alexander McKay with his litany of SNP referendum violence plus Media News article on Stephen Daisley’s martyrdom should be sent to:

    258. heedtracker says:

      Wullie World also going tory UKOK red tory mad, madder, maddest, unless and until they do just declare for and as the red tory party, the red yoon party of the Scotland region. Wullie endless RT of loads of Heil to Record via BBC Scotland SNP v v bad stuff and…

      William Young ?@youngwd1 16h16 hours ago
      Sturgeon’s EU plans BLOW:
      Top economic expert brands her Scot pound bid a MISTAKE

      William Young Retweeted
      Alan Roden ?@AlanRoden Aug 29
      I’ve got a new job: Absolutely delighted to be joining Scottish Labour as communications director.

      William Young Retweeted
      Iain Martin ?@iainmartin1 Aug 28
      Iain Martin Retweeted Mirror Politics
      This is hilarious

      Wullie’s a huge Jackson Carlaw fan too but not so much my Slovene girlfriend, who’s twitter feed’s at this end’s got a huge ad with a character throwing up in a loo. Very odd out there in red and blue tory Scotland.

      If you do follow Wullie’s Daily Heil style twittering, the fact that there is or are, any SNP MP’s and MSP’s at all seems pretty miraculous.

    259. Jack Murphy says:

      BBC Shortbread is looking for an Editor Radio News,BBC Scotland News and Current Affairs
      Closing date 11th September.

      “The Ideal Candidate

      The post holder will demonstrate an innate understanding of the BBC’s values and purposes, extensive editorial experience in all aspects of News, renowned editorial judgement and a clear creative vision of how to build on our success in delivering high quality radio news programmes to audiences across all platforms.”

      YES. They boast of High Quality Programmes and the BBC’s Values and Purposes.
      Maybe they can expand a wee bit to us all about the “Purposes” of this Institution

      Package Description

      Grade 10—-whatever that is when it’s at home—-£250,000 maybe—-sounds familiar?

    260. K1 says:

      Checked that Rowan and Rowley spat Mike, no doubt Rowan is attempting to smear Rowley…thing is they were private text messages. So it’s clear it’s political on the part of Rowan…nasty wee git by the looks of it. It ain’t going to any ‘ethics’ committee either, lot of childish nonsense on the part of Rowan. (I take it Rowan is blairite is political disposition).

      Yes, shambolic mess is what the Labour party are, sooner they split the better.

    261. Nana says:


      Got back last weekend from holiday and posted Sunday on lots of links off topic. Added more each day. I have at the same time posted on the main thread to let people know where the links are.

      I was trying to keep the peace by not posting off topic links on the main threads. Difficult to know what to do for the best.

    262. HandandShrimp says:

      I caught a brief glimpse of the Daily Heil front page this morning. Apparently, SNPBad!!!!!!!!!!

      Who would have thought? 🙂

    263. K1 says:

      ‘The post holder will demonstrate an innate understanding of the BBC’s values and purposes’: Can read an autocue?

    264. call me dave says:

      Plans for Orkney oil and gas decommissioning site unveiled

    265. Ken500 says:

      There are less millionaires in the UK. London still has the most. House prices.

    266. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –

      ‘The post holder will demonstrate an innate understanding of the BBC’s values and purposes’


      ‘Prove you are one of us.’

    267. Dan Huil says:

      “The post holder will demonstrate an innate understanding of the BBC’s values and purposes, extensive editorial experience in all aspects of News, renowned editorial judgement and a clear creative vision of how to build on our success in delivering high quality radio news programmes to audiences across all platforms.”

      Sounds like Jimmy Saville’s old job.

    268. Valerie says:


      I was also wondering why you were putting your links in Off Topic.

      Only my opinion, but unless Rev has asked you to do this, why bother what others are trying to impose? I had a spat on here after posting a genuine, evidenced piece about Syria, and was called a Looney leftie by a minority. My response was colourful, and a number of regulars (thank you) backed me up.

      I personally DO make a big effort to lift my eyes, because it is all part of the political scene, and often important to be abreast of these issues, in answering critics.

      I think lots will miss your links here, and correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you have a set of golden wings for…….?

    269. Ken500 says:

      The next Indy Ref will be different. The betrayal of the vow. Brexit.

      The SNP should have a three year residential clause for non permanent residents. Students form elsewhere etc. The SNP should keep in control of the campaign. Not waste members money on other sections, trying to make political capital.

      With or without the £, in or out of the EU Scotland would be better off Independent.

      All Westminster had to do was devolve powers as promised – take Trident out of Scotland, stop Scotland paying loan repayments on debt it did not borrow of spend, put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink in Scotland and stop tax evasion. Six policies they refused.

    270. heedtracker says:

      I caught a brief glimpse of the Daily Heil front page this morning. Apparently, SNPBad!!!!!!!!!!

      Skim and scan through Wullie Young tweets, he takes photos of all Heil and Record SNP bad news and its really really bad/ fantastic, pending on how much yoonster and tory you are. Daily Record’s probably most ferocious, imploring Record readers to read their SNP bad things. But Wullie’s a SLabour education too.

      Didn’t know Lord Foulkes is a UK federalist for example

      William Young Retweeted
      George Foulkes ?@GeorgeFoulkes Aug 29
      George Foulkes Retweeted UK Politics
      Might have said the same myself.
      In fact I did!
      Welcome to the campaign for a Federal UK

      Don’t go to far into Wullie world land though, aswell as hating JC, Wullie RT’s things like,

      William Young Retweeted
      MATT ?@MTweeter24 Aug 27
      MATT Retweeted sunday herald
      I would rather drink bleach than vote yes.

      Socialist workers like Wullie have done a great deal for Aberdeen, in particular the buy to let industry, as Wullie’s SLab ACC have refused point blank to build any social housing in Aberdeen for decades. And that’s in an local economy with the massive demands and influx of workers to Europe’s oil capital.

      Guess who’s become a buy to let millionaire, hell bent on stopping any changes at all to Scottish democracy?

      Correct, its future Sir Wullie Young, OBE, KBE, FRSA, AA, RAC, Compare the

      He’s not a red tory though:D

    271. Proud Cybernat says:

      So the Yoons trust the UK Treasury to be open and honest about GERS and Scotland’s oil & gas wealth? I mean, REALLY?

      Alan Ferrier
      2015 Norway: 1.95M barrels/day
      2015 UK: 0.965M barrels/day
      2015 Norway: £9.5B
      2015 UK: 76M

    272. Sassenach says:

      Sorry if I’m behind the curve on this but can anyone tell me the following:-

      In the event of the SG calling a referendum –

      1) Can the SG actually define a new ‘residency’ test?

      2) Can the SG decide who can have postal ballots?

      3) Can the SG invite independent ‘observers’ from other nations to scrutinise the voting?

      Or will we be subjected to the same ‘conditions’ that applied in the last Indyref?

      I think these things need urgent examination, otherwise we are on a hiding again.

    273. heedtracker says:

      call me dave says:
      31 August, 2016 at 2:06 pm
      Plans for Orkney oil and gas decommissioning site unveiled

      “WWF Scotland director Lang Banks said: “It’s been estimated that 285 platforms and over 4,000 oil and gas wells will require to be removed from UK seas over the coming decades, leading a new multi-billion pound decommissioning industry.”

      How many of that 285 platform estimate were built in Scotland, with Scottish steel? A tiny percentage. If you want to even begin to understand why Norway’s loaded from now til the end of time, with a giant ship building and steel industrial base, they weren’t run and controlled by Thatcherite UKOK red and blue toryboys, currently going apeshit hysterical BBC Scotland style on Scotland’s £15bn black hole of NO.

      Norway has virtually zero teenage unemployment, Scotland has red tories raging over bad news like this. Why in the name of UKOK do Scottish 5000 kids need mental health treatment? because there’s nothing for them in teamGB. Join the army maybe. Brits always need cheap cannon fodder.

      William Young Retweeted
      Kezia Dugdale ?@kezdugdale Aug 28
      There are 5000 young people in Scotland waiting over 4mths for mental health treatment. 5000. Just let that sink in

    274. Petra says:

      Does anyone else on here check out the yahoo news site and post comments on articles relating to Scotland?

      Right now there is one on there (only) entitled:

      ‘Sturgeon branded anti-Armed Forces as Scot troops face tax bill FOUR TIMES that in England.’

      ‘EXCLUSIVE: NICOLA Sturgeon has been accused of being “anti British Armed Forces” after failing to stop Scottish soldiers receiving hefty tax bills which don’t apply to troops living south of the border.’

      There’s all the usual bile-filled comments being made by morons against Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP and I see that someone has initiated a petition: Petitioning the Scottish Parliament demanding that she stand down as First Minister. Over 28,000 signatures have been added to it now. Mostly from people living in England. ‘Call for Nicola Sturgeon to stand down as First Minister of Scotland.’

      ”Sturgeon must be reprimanded for deceitful interpretation of the remain votes in Scotland from the UK’s Brexit result. Sturgeon shows an unhealthy obsession with Scottish independence, against the will of the people of Scotland. She must stand down for misrepresenting the people of Scotland.”

      @ Nana says at 2:00 pm …. ”Petra got back last weekend from holiday and posted Sunday on lots of links off topic. Added more each day. I have at the same time posted on the main thread to let people know where the links are. I was trying to keep the peace by not posting off topic links on the main threads. Difficult to know what to do for the best.”

      ”Keep the peace?” ‘Eyes rolling’.

      I must have missed that Nana, probably when I was on holiday. I would say that the VAST majority of people would prefer if you posted on here. Some people may miss your posts stating that links are in the OT section. And to be honest there may be many individuals like myself who never go on there for no other reason than we don’t have the time. So I say ”Come home, Nana. I’m missing you x.”

    275. jacksg says:

      Hi Folks,

      In response to the Tesco debacle, below is part of a letter sent by Christine Graham MSP to the chief of Tesco.


      Grahame writes to TESCO chief over Saltire storm

      MIDLOTHIAN South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale MSP Christine Grahame has written to the Group Chief Executive of TESCO to protest at the removal of the Scottish Saltire from its packaging south of the border.

      Ms Grahame wrote to Dave Lewis this week following a public outcry when TESCO took the decision to remove Scotland’s national flag from strawberries sold in English stores due to “several customer complaints.” She said:

      “This decision has caused outrage amongst many people in Scotland as not only has the Saltire been removed but it has been replaced with the Union Flag. I am asking Mr Lewis if TESCO will remove the Union Flag if it receives complaints from people in Scotland for the same reason.

      “I do wonder what Scottish farmers have done to insult shoppers in England if they feel so aggrieved by their national flag being displayed on their produce in order that people know where they’ve come from.”

      A series of tweets from TESCO provoked a storm of criticism on social media, with many people urging TESCO bosses to reverse their decision. Ms Grahame added:

      “I have now suggested to Mr Lewis that a better solution might be to brand English produce with the Saint George’s Cross, Scottish produce with the Saltire, Welsh produce with the Flag of Wales and so on? In fact I wonder how many complaints TESCO received in the first place and how many since!

      “I do hope he will appreciate this suggestion – after all, ‘Every Little Helps’!”

    276. Legerwood says:

      Petra @ 3.13pm

      I second your plea to Nana to bring her links back here

    277. Lochside says:

      Sassenach says: totally agree residency test is critical. Since 2014, we have lost another 50,000 mainly young, educated Scots. We have ‘gained’ up to a 100,000 RUK. Very soon, the RUK resident vote will be the deciding element in any Referendum. As they displayed in the past elections and the Brexit election, they will vote SNP and Remain when it suits their economic interests..but…when it comes to national interest or identity, up to 70% orf them see their own nationality as paramount and by voting against Scottish national aspirations feel no sense of betrayal or even non-entitlement to intervene in this our sovereign right to regain our nationhood.

      The residency test should be a precursor to establishing grounds for Scottish nationality. Those, wherever they are born, should have some length of residency to be an element in attaining this. Similiarly, Scots born residents who do not wish to assume their new citizenship, but remain subjects of the rump UK should be allowed to do so. But not enjoy the full rights of Scottish citizens such as a vote, which is the case in most countries.

    278. galamcennalath says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      So Norway produces twice but gets more income? Is that tax take?

      Never thought about it, but can production in the two sectors of the North Sea be all that different?

      Suggests someone should compile some comparisons of Norway’s figures and what HM Treasury say are the UK figures.

      The results might make some superb material to attack London with.

    279. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana as Valerie has broached the subject Why are you posting links in O/T & not on the Main Thread ?

    280. manandboy says:

      Oil prices are set to rise again. It’s so boring for Scotland to be up to its neck in oil and gas reserves and have to manage these price fluctuations.

      Better just to let England have it all ‘cos they’re so much cleverer than us stupit Scots.

      Wait, what do you mean, they already control it, and keep all the oil money for themselves. Ah don’t believe it! How did that happen?

      We wurnae payin’ attention! Aw ah see noo. A’m losin’ it.

    281. scottieDog says:

      @Tam Jardine
      The idea of currency being ‘backed’ by reserves is a bit of a throw back to the gold standard when you could swap sterling.

      Sterling like all currencies are ‘fiat’ currencies. They have no backing by anything. Richard nixon was responsible for that in 1971.

      So we have to look at foreign reserves in.yhe BOE simply as assets.

      In a similar way the term ‘borrowing’ is only relevant in schemes like zopa or local credit unions.
      In our dealings with banks it should be called credit creation as new money is created at the issue of a loan.

      So a scot pound won’t really have the backing of anything as such – like all other national currencies. It will have value because we will have to earn it to pay our taxes.

    282. scottieDog says:

      Sorry above should have read
      “Swap sterling for gold”

    283. heraldnomore says:

      Seen in THAT supermarket, on a pile of THOSE strawberries – one Wee Black Book…

    284. heedtracker says:

      This is really really funny. Fair play to the nutty professor what wrote it though, calling YES voters post-Christian Scots who believe in anything, is a new one.

      Also, the nutty professor says Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s a UKOK unionist and Dostoyevsky says Scottish independence will end with unlimited despotism. So there. Fcuk knows what this guy’s a professor of. That Dostoyevsky guy could be his pet cockatiel .

    285. galamcennalath says:

      @Proud Cybernetic

      I found this online ….

      “In 2015, Norway’s tax revenues from petroleum activities were about NOK 104 billion. ”

      …. Which is £9.5billion in 2015.

      On that basis Scotland should have been able to take, say £5billion?

      Kind of blows GERS out of the water, does it not?

    286. clipper says:

      Lochside 3.23

      I hope that some of these britnat parasites and freeloaders who come here to enjoy the superior benefits of living in Scotland as a pose to England but who will be allowed to vote against Scottish self determination are being made to feel extremely unwelcome, i.e. ostracization etc.

      People in these communities know who and where they are. Many of the settlers actually like to put the local indigenous peasants in their place and make a lot of noise about how poor, wee, stupid Scotland couldn’t do without wonderful glorious England. They need to be loudly and publicly asked about why they don’t just piss off back there.

    287. manandboy says:

      Sassenach, the issue of residence qualifications in IndyRef14 was somewhat divisive. Minimal residential requirements were SNP policy at the time, apparently. I personally thought it was suicidal.

      That a vote affecting the sovereignty of Scotland should be handed out to every Tom Dick or Harry who was not born in Scotland but had nevertheless some attachment, well, we might as well hand over all of Scotland’s natural wealth and resources to Westminster.

      I haven’t been able to identify even one other country which has allowed foreign nationals a vote affecting sovereignty. But the SNP must knows something no one else does

    288. manandboy says:

      oh dear, my fingers have turned into cucumbers. That last line should begin ‘But perhaps the SNP know someting. . .

    289. Nana says:

      @Valerie, I don’t remember anyone having a go at you, what was the piece on Syria?

      @Petra xx

      @Ronnie Anderson
      Because some days there are so many links to post I felt that perhaps there were too many ‘Nana says’ taking up the thread and some folk might get a wee bit annoyed. Plus being a shrinking violet peace loving wee wifey I thought it best to take myself to off topic.

      But right now I’m packing my bags and Paula Rose if you are reading, I have done the washing up.

    290. Proud Cybernat says:

      Kind of blows GERS out of the water, does it not?

      Not if you believe the BBC… pmsl!!!

    291. mike cassidy says:

      Headtracker 3.59

      If you thought The Nutty Professor was on form there –

      this was His Nuttiness after 2015’s general election

      David who?

    292. manandboy says:

      Nana, I am all too well aware that I haven’t got my Wings life back yet, and hence very infrequent comments, but I still follow Stu’s blog every day and I for one want you back! Asap, please.

    293. K1 says:

      Aye Ian…failed attempt at ‘wit’ on ma part 🙁 (dae as they’re telt)

    294. call me dave says:

      While on my way to the beach with the grandchildren this afternoon I tuned into Auntie’s radio 5 as I had swallowed enough shortbread for the day.

      Imagine our pal Joseph Stiglitz expert economist and book writer, better known to the presenter as Joe, came on and had a long chat about the euro and the state of the economy.

      Scotland never was mentioned, how refreshing, how normal, funny old world init


      Your the missing link! Post away. 🙂

    295. Nana says:


      I noticed you do not post much, hope you are ok

      Have a link

      Legogate councillor resigns

      @call me dave hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    296. John Young says:

      OT Working in the veg garden and we saw a wee lizard, perhaps 6 inches long. Back inside, typed “Wild Lizards in Scotland” on Google Images.

      Among the various Reptilian images was one of Michael Forsyth courtesy of Wings-‘The Wrong Lizard’

    297. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Tom Gallagher
      You must be aware that we are living in the multicultural 21st century, so I think you know where you can ram your bigoted superstition. Away and read some Bourdieu ya dobber.

    298. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam Jardine
      As well as what the others say, the Scots pound functions currently as a “local” currency, meaning it’s not traded abroad nor held in reserves by other countries. So the giants and titans held by the BoE is purely to cover that local currency in circulation, which is about £4 billion. It’s covered 100%, due to that Act in 1854 or thereabouts.

      Thing is that in Scotland we can also have and use the BoE banknotes, so even if the £4 billion isn’t enough to cover the currency held by us all and tourists etc., there’s enough in total to manage. If there’s any liquidity problem the BoE can issue more banknotes, which covers Scotland as well as the rUK.

      The Pound Sterling is the “foreign” currency, and is the one that’s held in Central Banks of other countries, to back their own currencies (as well as held physically by investors as part of a “safe haven” policy). Central Banks usually hold a mixed bag of currencies to cover fluctuations in any one currency, though the US Dollar grossly exceeds any other currency for that purpose.

      The other purpose I mentioned is liquidity, and when the Scots Pound or whatever it’s called becomes the main currency, i.e. both local and foreign currency, it not only has to cover the notes in circulation in Scotland, it has to cover those held by tourists including the English, central banks – and all banks operating in Scotland. If there was a deop in confidence in banks and people rush to withdraw funds, the notes are needed to cover those withdrawals.

      That’s why the Central Bank – or a parcel of Commercial Banks backing the currency – would have to have far higher holdings than that £4 billion worth of a “foreign” currency – such as the Pound Sterling.

    299. Grouse Beater says:

      The BBC has sent the producer of ‘Great British Bake Off’ to shake up ‘Gardeners World’. Monty Don is done for.

      I’ll have a field day getting jokes out of that one.

    300. chasanderson200 says:

      @Grouse Beater
      So Monty Don becomes “The Great British rake off”?

    301. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –

      Nah, no dig or gripe with what you wrote, at all, at all.

      It’s just typical Auntie doublespeak – they still don’t click that we rumbled them years ago. Aye, it can’t be easy to write any kind of job-ad without using the same old cliches and ‘team-talk’, but in their case it’s special.

      We’ve been onto them for years and they know we know they know it. Gary Robertson’s testy Twitter exchange with Rev earlier today shows just how jittery they’re getting. The ‘decent’ journalists among them – and/or those who can see the writing on the proverbial – are showing frustration at being included among the usual suspects.

      Tickety-tock, ya bams.

    302. Effijy says:

      STV News at 6pm just had a lengthy report on the poverty within the poorest areas of Scotland.

      Really milking the situation for all that they are worth, and then the First Minister has to answer for the state that some Scots have to live in?

      They then give a bloody Tory a pop at endorsing bad the
      poverty and the SNP are?

      Can we just check to see who has been in Total Charge of Scotland’s Welfare for the last 300 years plus?
      Can we double check if it has been mainly Blue English Tories that control Scotland’s budget?
      Can we re-confirm that the last 9 years of austerity cut, after austerity cut, has been imposed by both Red & the Blue Tories in Westminster, against the SNP’s wishes?

      To give a bit of balance to STV, they did report that Scotland’s Education performance is much better than some politicians have reported. We have the best result within the UK.

      This was the shortest report on something so major that I have ever seen.
      It seemed to be interrupted so quickly by news of an earth, that I thought it must be happening now, in Scotland.
      Thankfully it was just a repeat of the Italian earthquake from a few days back.

      Any earthquake in a storm, Eh STV.

    303. Phronesis says:

      ‘Anyone who puts together low voter turnout,high voter turnover,declining party membership,governmental impotence,political paralysis,electoral fear of failure…exhausting media stress,distrust,indifference and other persistent paroxysms sees the outline of a syndrome emerging.Democratic Fatigue Syndrome…

      The (system) equilibrium came to an end as a result of neoliberal thinking…Not civil society but the free market was now the main architect and this applied to countless domains of public life ,especially the media…even public broadcasters increasingly adopted market thinking…

      nowadays it’s about the right to speak…the battles for political emancipation and for democratic participation.We must decolonise democracy. We must democratise democracy’

      David Van Reybrouck. Against Elections The Case for Democracy

      Scotland / indyref 2 well on the way to democratising democracy, the art of the possible but for the
      long run.

    304. Gary45% says:

      There was me thinking as I am now no more EBC, it looks like S hite TV will be getting a miss also.
      Will have a hearty laugh at Gary Rubberheid on shortbread in the mornings, he is getting very close to FUD status, along with the rest of his pathetic sorry colleagues.
      An embarrassment to Inverness.

    305. Tam Jardine says:

      Yesindyref2 & ScottieDog

      Thanks for your excellent and informative posts- this is why I come here.


      Great find. I love this:

      ‘To begin with unlimited freedom, the Russian novelist’ Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote in The Devils ‘is to end with unlimited despotism.’

      How are we to understand this? ‘To begin with unlimited freedom, the Russian novelist is to end with unlimited despotism’ Could the great one have been referring to Tolstoy? Or Lermontov? Who knows (except his mate Tom Gallagher). Of course- Dostoyevsky was meditating on his own work.

      His article is no less profound: his conflation of the rise of the SNP and the fall of organised religion in the West is interesting with a thoughtful contribution from the current Moderator of the Church of Scotland (who it appears is a lifelong adherent not just to the Christian faith but to the SNP’s godless, heathen teachings.)

      Nietzsche predicted Dostoyevsky’s attitude to the SNP with his masterpiece Also Sprach Zarathustra completed shortly after Dostoyevsky’s death.

    306. Petra says:

      I just watched that Effijy. Last week it was poverty doom and gloom in Govanhill …. Roma labour exploitation, people in saris filmed walking along bed / mattress littered streets and homes overrun with rats, bedbugs and cockroaches.

      Will people sitting at home tonight blame the SNP for the level of poverty in Scotland or will they wonder why the Better Together Union isn’t working for Scotland? Another case for getting messages onto billboards, banners and placards …. listing all of the small countries that are thriving and their national assets versus ours.

      I can’t see us getting anywhere with the BBC but I’ve been reading The National on a daily basis and emailing STV asking why they’re not reporting data that I can find in The National or online. I just wonder if it would make a positive difference if more of us targeted STV?

      Later news on STV: Junior doctors in England preparing to strike again …. 5 days from the 12th September. This will culminate in 100,000 operations and a million hospital appointments being cancelled. They’re not meeting their NHS targets either. Haven’t done so for months. Will this have an impact on Scots who are being constantly bombarded with the SNP Baad mantra?

    307. Bob Mack says:

      The state of Scotland ? I lived in a single end tenement in the Cowcaddens area of Glasgow as a boy. Mum,Dad me and my sister all in a single end. There was a toilet on the stair, and a coal bunker in the lobby which when filled emitted a cloud of black dust all over the house. All the pipes for water were lead rather than copper.
      Our stair was always clean but the back courts and old wash houses were mice and rat infested. This was the way it was since around 1900. As a boy I remember yellow fog in which you could not see someone standing next to you.

      All this under a Labour administration and the occasional Labour government.
      Remember the days when Rickets and other diseases were rife in Glasgow?
      The simple fact is that Labour did not give a damn about local government. National policy yes. Local initiatives no.

    308. Petra says:

      @ harry mcaye says at 1:37 pm …. ”Re billboard campaigns – how about a simple “Independence is Normal” for starters? Also, a twitter thingumybob, “Imagine for a moment that Scotland has always been an independent country” and then lists all the immense drawbacks of joining a union. It’s superb. We need stuff like that going through doors.”

      Would be great to see that on banners too Harry. That and any other ‘longer’ type of message such as a list of Scotland’s assets.


      @ Sassenach says at 2:38 pm … Sorry if I’m behind the curve on this but can anyone tell me the following:- In the event of the SG calling a referendum –

      1) Can the SG actually define a new ‘residency’ test?

      2) Can the SG decide who can have postal ballots?

      3) Can the SG invite independent ‘observers’ from other nations to scrutinise the voting?

      Or will we be subjected to the same ‘conditions’ that applied in the last Indyref? I think these things need urgent examination, otherwise we are on a hiding again.”

      The SNP / Greens could probably decide who should be able to vote or not, as wee Cameron did. The problem that we (they) face is that rUK relocators wouldn’t be considered to be ‘foreigners’ and the rest of the SG would probably kick up a st*nk if they were excluded, for the obvious reason (they would help them to win). On the other hand over 800,000 Scots living in England were excluded last time round which to my mind was a case of blatant discrimination. Maybe the 500,000 (approx) rUK relocators could be excluded based on preventing a ‘discriminatory situation’. Anyone in that position reading this please don’t take offence.

      Most immigrants voted against Independence previously but it now looks as though many would vote for it because of Brexit.

      Some sort of time limit on residency would be needed. I don’t know whether the SNP could push that through or not. I doubt they could interfere with postal votes (we’d have to get the word out) but could request that independent International observers take part.

      More than anything we’ll have to have exit polls as that is the ONLY way to monitor if skullduggery is going on in the counting centres, say in relation to the computing of the final votes.

      The ‘we’ll rent a flat for a month or two and vote’ crew really stick in my craw as do the holiday home owners. I’m travelling around Scotland constantly and find that more and more second homes and B&Bs are owned by individuals living down south / from the south. As per ONE example I’ve been trying to book a holiday home in the Lochcarron area over the last few days and found that agents based in Scotland are dealing with many of the ’empty’ houses on behalf of the owners. Five out of six B&B owners that I’ve phoned have English accents. Additionally you only have to listen to the news at night to know that the numbers are increasing dramatically. Some of the relocators of course could be heading to Scotland to distance themselves from Westminster.

      Whatever the case, it’s crucial that we win this Referendum as if it drags on any longer we’ll probably find ourselves in the same position as Wales (NEVER get their Independence) with over 20% of their population relocated from ‘elsewhere’.

    309. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tam Jardine
      I suppose I should have been more tactful, though I still think Mr. Gallagher’s appreciation of contemporary society would be all the more informed after consuming a bit of Bourdieu. 😉

    310. macnakamura says:

      Bob Mack says:
      31 August, 2016 at 7:08 pm
      The state of Scotland ? I lived in a single end tenement in the Cowcaddens area of Glasgow as a boy. Mum,Dad me and my sister all in a single end. There was a toilet on the stair, and a coal bunker in the lobby which when filled emitted a cloud of black dust all over the house. All the pipes for water were lead rather than copper.
      Our stair was always clean but the back courts and old wash houses were mice and rat infested. This was the way it was since around 1900. As a boy I remember yellow fog in which you could not see someone standing next to you.

      You were lucky.

    311. mike cassidy says:

      Nanaesque dilemma here –

      but think this view of the Apple tax case is worth reading.

    312. Dr Jim says:

      Theresa May says none of the devolved administrations will have a veto over Brexit talks nor will they be consulted on the method of Brexit, that will be up to the UK government

      Well if none of the devolved administrations are to be consulted who make up the UK government that only leaves the English section of the UK Government who makes the decision

      Once again the confusion over who the UK actually are and once again the English part of the UK thinks that all the constituent parts of the UK are England or is it GB or just plain old…There’s mair o us ya bas whit yeez gonny dae aboot it…

      How do you spell democracy again?
      That’ll be with a capital D for Dictatorship certainly not a capital U for Union or a capital C for..oh no that’s for something else

    313. Effijy says:


      Later news on STV: Junior doctors in England preparing to strike again …. 5 days from the 12th September. This will culminate in 100,000 operations and a million hospital appointments being cancelled. They’re not meeting their NHS targets either. Haven’t done so for months. Will this have an impact on Scots who are being constantly bombarded with the SNP Baad mantra?

      Thanks Petra,

      I can see that NHS Engerland have cancelled over 300,000 operations within one year, once this latest strike action takes place.

      I hope it is still fresh in the memory that Jaba The SLab
      tried to shame NHS Scotland because 3,000 operations had been cancelled.
      This was 1.5% of the total operations planned.

      Research, that none of the media bothered with showed that staff illness, weather conditions, patients declining, etc
      made this the best figures in recent history.

      It also revealed that the last time Labour ran NHS Scotland
      5% of planned operations were cancelled.

      This was before the austerity cuts, and this was with a smaller population, and this was with a population with a lower life expectancy.

      It translates as the SNP’s management of our NHS is by far the best in the UK, and by far the most competent and caring political party, in matters of life or death.

    314. Petra says:

      Just wanted to mention that I came across an article that stated that Michelle Thomson still hasn’t been interviewed by the Police, a year on.

      Isn’t it high time that she was reinstated into the SNP?

    315. Tam Jardine says:


      If anything Cameron you were too tactful.

      One imagines the incarceration, mock execution, hard labour and exile in Siberia Dostoevsky suffered from for his association with the Petrashevsky circle would give him an appreciation of the treatment of dissidents in Nicola Sturgeon’s One Party State.

      In fact his meditation on his time in prison, the House of the Dead draws parallels with Stephen Daisley’s treatment at the hands of the SNP.

      It is striking that Solzhenitsyn would later mock what he perceived as the luxury of Dostoyevsky’s time in prison as someone who would endure the gulag under Stalin. But then it is widely understood that Sasha had SNP leanings. Even if it is unclear whether or not he actually supported Yes in the end it is indisputable that he would have done so following Brexit.

    316. Gary45% says:

      Dr Jim@7.33
      As we Scots are already outnumbered 10-1 by the shandy drinkers, I think they better get some more shandy drinkers to make it a worth while rammy.
      As normally shouted by the shandies “come back you coward and fight the 10 of us”.
      And then you get an ars*hole like crash giving it the “pulling and sharing” bollocks, which translates to “you sweaties get back in your box”
      Scotland the only country that likes to continually abuse itself.
      Indy Ref 2
      Tick Tock.

    317. galamcennalath says:

      Can’t be long now until IndyRef2 becomes a necessity ….

      “Theresa May has vowed to make controls on EU migration a red line during Brexit negotiations …. Her comments make it increasingly likely that Britain will leave the Single Market.”

      … that seems a million miles from anything acceptable to the SG.

    318. Vambomarbeleye says:

      The union and supporters have always been sleegit bastards. Think Glen Coe and then carry on forward through history.
      They are not too be trusted at any level. If you shake their hand then count your fingers afterwards.
      Never ever let your guard down.

    319. call me dave says:

      Sturgeon hits out as May rules out ‘soft’ Brexit and insists UK Government alone will decide terms

    320. Legerwood says:

      Report in Herald that Oil and Gas Authority are going to fund a project to reassess the availability of oil and gas deposits in the Firth of Clyde. Sorry can’t give link.

    321. Alex Clark says:

      Those arguing semantics are mistaken.

      There is NO WAY a Noble Prize winner fails to differentiate between

      “I think it was a mistake” or “I think it may have been a mistake”.

      The first statement is 100% certain. The second not certain.

      There’s a fair few bridges missing their trolls tonight away and creep back under them.

    322. Dr Jim says:

      “The Saltire” believed to be the oldest flag in Europe

      So we’ve been around a wee bitty longer than thon new constructed rid and blue thing and the rid and white yin and the yin wae the dragon on and the yin wae the stop sign

      When you think about it those newcomers in the south have got a cheek

    323. call me dave says:


      Is this it?…good spot….West Coast Oil deposits maybes?

    324. Alex Clark says:

      The EBC though want you to believe that Stiglizt is 100% certain the it was a mistake. They are liars and lie solely in order to preserve their “Union”.

      Their is no “Union”.

    325. Alex Clark says:

      The “Union” has been the biggest lie of all. That is the truth.

    326. Alex Clark says:

      Of that I’m 100% certain that it was a mistake not may have been a mistake.

    327. Robert Louis says:

      So, following today’s announcements from London, it is I think clear, London cares not a jot for what Scotland or N.Ireland think.

      It has been made clear that decisions will be made by Westminster, and no consideration will be given to Scotland or the fact that the vast majority of Scots want to stay in the EU. All the rest is just patronising lip-service from London – as usual.

      It really is the case, Scotland is either independent and stays in the EU, or stays tied to London colonial rule, and is dragged out of the EU, by a rabid extreme right wing tory government.

      We must not let this happen. Outside the EU, Scotland will forever be at the mercy of these utter lying b*****s in London. Does anybody seriously expect London to compensate Scottish farmers or industry or science for the damage done? Of course not. Their priority is Engerland – ‘Britain’ as they like to call it.

    328. Legerwood says:

      call me dave @ 8.55pm

      That is the article.

    329. Valerie says:


      Good grief! That Telegraph article – Ministers must draw inspiration from the British Empire as a great trading nation.

      What the actual *%% ???

      This sums up where we are under this Tory policy vacuum. Why the May gov’t is not being slaughtered by media, tells you everything.

      Cameron walks off, after lighting the fire, and two months on, we are not one iota further along, except to piss off the EU on a daily basis.

      I shouldn’t rant, as it works for us, but I honestly can’t believe what’s going on.

    330. Smallaxe says:

      This is now more than a fight for Independence,it’s a fight
      for Scotland’s Survival! Peace

    331. Alex Clark says:

      Stiglitz made no mistake and knew exactly what he was saying, I made plenty in my posts but I haven’t won a Nobel Prize.

      The real mistakes start when the governments propaganda arm, the BBC deliberately distort the truth by omission or simply misquoting. Neither was done here, it was simply lying.

      The enemy of the state is the state itself, glad I never went to Eton.

    332. Still Positive. says:

      Smallaxe @ 9.34pm Exactly.

      We need to get out and talk to the confused, scared and those who think politics doesn’t affect them.

      We need to be emphasising just what Scotland will lose by being out of the single market.

      I said to one of my neighbours before the EU ref that I feared being out of Europe more than I feared a ‘NO’ vote in our ref.

      This will be an epic disaster for Scotland unless we are independent and in Europe.

    333. cearc says:

      Somebody asked earlier for the text of Prof. Hughes Hallett’s letter to the FT.

      ‘Sir, With reference to your editorial “Scottish independence and the Brexit paradox” (August 25), the latest national accounts for Scotland show that North Sea revenues have fallen 99 per cent from 2014 to 2016. A quick check shows the oil price itself fell roughly 54 per cent over the same period. What, you may reasonably ask, happened to the missing 45 per cent? Especially since output actually rose 15-20 per cent at the same time, independently of projections into the further future, all according to UK government figures.

      Several stories can explain this discrepancy: transfer pricing or tax reductions for example. But one thing is certain — these accounts do not conform to the United Nations Convention on National Accounting or the European System of National Accounts. My (US) university adopted the same accounting techniques four years ago, treating all revenues earned by my institute as their income, but the spending needed to generate those revenues as our costs. These “extra” revenues were then rapidly converted into a building programme, while the ensuing deficit at the institute nearly closed it down. The result: Greek-style debt at the university level. The moral: beware of statisticians bearing excess deficits.

      Andrew Hughes Hallett
      Professor, Economics and Public Policy,
      George Mason University,
      Arlington, VA, US

      Professor of Economics, St Andrews University, UK’

    334. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun’s UKOK style of whatever they think do with red tory politics is starting to grate. So much for British heavyweight broadsheet hackdom, it is really is sheet. This is and other terrible attempts at puns.

      ‘This isn’t bloody funny’: JK Rowling laments Corbyn’s strong position
      Harry Potter author expresses her dismay on Twitter after YouGov poll showed leader has substantial lead over rival Owen Smith

      One Britnat zoomer channels Dostoyevsky to save England’s control of Scotland but the queen of plagiarism is probably a sign of the times. Why doesn’t she just get Harry Plopplop to cast as spell over poor old JC? Or even pay a million quid to Owen, like she did old fart face Macdoughball.

    335. Alex Clark says:

      I mean how difficult is it for news where you are to give a quote?

      You simply say exactly what was said or if writing it put it in inverted commas. Did any of these thick people even go to school?

      Shocking, LIAR! LIAR! we’re no longer listening.

    336. Robert Peffers says:

      (Continued comment).

      The Kingdom of Scotland owns a negotiable share of all BofE assets debts and every last penny in the separate account that lies in the BofE vaults which should, (and perhaps does), have earned interest like any other bank deposit.

      Secondly there is no legal reason to accept the Westminster claims that Scotland’s shares of anything are based upon the adverse population ratios that have persisted and prevailed because of Westminster’s administrations, since 1 May 1707.

      If ever there was a case to take to the international courts this is it. In the first place the United Kingdom is, as its name describes it, – a kingdom. It is not, and never has been a country.

      Furthermore there is no substance in the Westminster claims that, “The Treaty of union Extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

      Quite obviously, as the UK is indeed a bipartite kingdom, then upon the only two signatory kingdoms in union parting company that union ends and there is thus no more United Kingdom and, like a bipartite marriage, both partners return to their single status and the assets are negotiated and split up.

      Like a marriage too, if they cannot agree on the shares it is a matter for the courts and these cannot be either the courts of the still independent legal systems of England and Scotland and there will then be no UK.

      Now, perhaps we can all see the importance of NOT accepting the authority of the so called UK Supreme Court?

      Sorry about the long screed but there really is no short way of telling it like it is.

    337. heedtracker says:

      After 6+ years of UKOK toryboy austerity, which has failed and caused on told misery, certainly untold in any of the demented rags the UK rages at us with, Daily Heil don’t seem to be missing the dreaded Roden either today.

      FT August 31, 2016 6:12 pm

      US declares victory in G20 growth versus austerity debate
      Shawn Donnan in Washington

      Jack Lew, the US Treasury Secretary, has claimed victory in Washington’s campaign for the world’s leading economies to embrace fiscal stimulus, saying they had come round to longstanding US arguments to put growth before austerity.

      Speaking ahead of President Barack Obama’s final Group of 20 summit which takes place in China later this week, Mr Lew said a “consensus” had formed around the US position on the need for countries to “use all policy tools” including monetary, fiscal and structural reforms.

      That, he said, was being reflected in new policy measures unveiled this year in Canada, China, South Korea, Japan and parts of Europe where governments were either boosting spending or delaying tax increases.”

      JK Rowling says This isn’t bloody funny. It is possible Brexit wont drag toryboy UKOK over a cliff. Wonder what that toryboy Osborne’s up to these days.

    338. Tam Jardine says:


      That must surely be the first instance of Dostoyevsky and Rowling being mentioned in the same sentence. Are we entering the end of days? Is the sea about to give up her dead?

      I fear you may have unwittingly precipitated a meteor colliding with the Earth my friend.

      *BBC headline- SNP cybernat causes meteor

      **Herald headline: JK Rowling DESTROYS SNP MSP in twitter spat prior to Meteor strike

      As you were..

    339. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cal says: 31 August, 2016 at 8:17 am:
      Robert Peffers@11.53pm

      “You can argue legal facts as long as you like but if no one recognizes them you’re going nowhere.”

      That may have been true not so long ago, Cal, but have a thought to what prevails right now.

      The Westminster Establishment has put the backs up of the main EU powers and the sides the international community and there could well be a rather anti-SNP USAsian President in the near future.

      Even if, “The Donald”, fails to get the job there are growing tensions between the main EU powers and the USA over trade deals. Germany’s peoples are particular very much against present trade negotiations that would virtually make such as the UK just another USAsian State.

      Other growing economies who are not exactly pleased to see the USA as the policeman of the World are also not exactly friends of the UK or the USA.

      The term Brexit is also a load of tosh. Britain IS NOT going to exit the EU for Westminster IS NOT Britain. It is only the UK of GB & NI that plans, against the wishes of not just Scotland, to leave the EU. It may well be that only England & Wales So Westminster will leave. Then what remains of the UK could well find itself way out on a limb when it leaves the EU and finds its only friend is the USA and perhaps also Australia.

      The two most hated governments in the World are without doubt the UK, (mostly thought of as England), and the USA.

      Between then there is hardly a corner of the World they have not been to war with and killed millions of civilians.

    340. Ananurhing says:

      Jakey throwing a hissy.

      Love one of the BTL comments.

      “And then Harry pulled the ladder up behind him, fucked if he was letting any of those muggle bastards have the opportunities he’d had.
      “Wizards only.” He Tweeted.”

    341. CameronB Brodie says:

      British nationalism is the synthetic product of a dehumanising, utilitarian, Anglophile ideology best left in the Age of Imperialism.

      Historians are to blame for the general ignorance of the history of the United Kingdom but it must be admitted that they have problems. One of the odder aspects of this country is what to call it. Nearly seventy years ago Leo Amery listened to the third reading of the Irish Home Rule Bill and lamented that no speaker ever said anything to suggest that the United Kingdom really was a nation. If Irish nationalism was given any recognition it meant the end of United Kingdom nationalism. He argued that if only a single name could have been invented for the United Kingdom in 1800 and the Vice-Royalty abolished then Home Rule would never have been considered.

    342. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nineteenth-century English nationalism has been a neglected area of research, as Gerald Newman pointed out in his seminal study,The Rise of English Nationalism: A Cultural History, 1740-1830 (1987). The scholarly preoccupations of the last decade have been with British national identity and its interaction – or suppression – of divergent Celtic nationalisms. The publication of Linda Colley’s Britons: Forging the Nation, 1707-1837 (1992) perhaps rightly focused academic attention on the creation of a sense of Britishness which – in the eighteenth- and early-nineteenth- centuries at least – served to bind the disparate parts of the British Isles together.

      This book explores the relationship between British and English national identities in the nineteenth-century. David Cannadine has suggested that Colley’s sense of Britishness had dwindled, by the end of Victoria’s reign, to an interpretation of Britain as England alone, so that British history was essentially English history writ large.(1) Barczewksi’s study of nineteenth-century perceptions and representations of the legends of King Arthur and Robin Hood offers a case study of the development of this Anglicization of the British identity. By the end of Victoria’s reign, she argues, Britishness of the inclusive variety Colley pictured was under challenge: a more dominant and racialist form of English national identity was emerging. This was a definition of Britain as England which left no room for the inclusion of Celtic national identities. You could not longer be British and Scottish, Welsh, or Irish; you were British and not Scottish, Welsh or Irish….

      @Gerry Hassan
      Have you seen the light?

    343. heedtracker says:

      Tam Jardine says:
      31 August, 2016 at 10:52 pm

      The rich are different from us, so is the UK media. Although if she was a great writer, it would at least make some sense.

    344. geeo says:

      Kezia seems to have backed the wrong horse again…

      Humza has a cracking post regarding ‘scottish’ labour on twitter apparently.

      Her choice of labour leader has completely disembowelled her.

      No link, dont do twitter, sorry.

    345. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s the link to the report about the Corbyn/Smith poll of Labour members.

      My favourite bit.

      “The poll finds that Corbyn is seen as more principled, more honest, more competent and more likely to win the next general election than his opponent”

      Feck me!

    346. gus1940 at 1.08 pm

      I cancelled my Private Eye some months ago. I was difficult as an annual subscription has been part of my Christmas present from my wife for many years .
      I have had letters published in it many times and I wrote several letters of complaint before I cancelled. I enjoy satire and clever poking in political terms. Private Eyes contributions on Scotland are neither. They are nasty, ill informed and childish and do the magazine a serious disservice

    347. geeo says:

      Humza Yousaf on Twitter: “This astonishing interview from @OwenSmith_MP basically tells @scottishlabour to shut up & eat their cereal

      Sorry, crap at shortening links etc…

    348. Liz g says:

      Em…. don’t shoot the messenger … but,as I, and I’m sure you Winger’s are willing to use any and all peaceful means necessary, to get the message across that the MSM are, to coin a phrase”at it” JK might actually be of some use.
      There are,as we know some Scot’s voter’s who’s reading age isn’t what it should be.
      There are also some Scot’s who don’t really read political stuff.
      But some of these voter’s could be familiar with the Harry Potter books
      One of these books has actually articulated (very well) that the media had manipulated opinion falsely and more importantly,the passage explains very brilliantly and (for our purposes) simply how this is done.
      I think it is the third book,and it’s the part where Harry Potter is preparing to return to the school but must face a trial first,but could be wrong,as I didn’t really read them myself but only went over them with the kids,but I do remember being impressed enough to use it to demonstrate to my lot the concept of not believing everything you read.

      Anyhoo …. the point I am making is that if you do know these books and you are having a conversation with a potential former no voter who also is familiar with them, then there is a very good opening to point out the MSM are “At it” and in a non confrontational way.
      By the way using JK like that is THAT irony?
      As I said just another idea…. don’t shoot the messenger.

    349. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. A utilitarian approach to government only begins to approach the ethical if practiced within one’s own sovereign national territory. Not when practiced within a unitary state characterised by a ten to one population difference.

      That’s the formula for colonial exploitation and tyranny, especially if the smaller entity is awash with natural capital.

    350. macnakamura says:

      geeo says:
      31 August, 2016 at 11:57 pm
      Humza Yousaf on Twitter: “This astonishing interview from @OwenSmith_MP

      And now, here are the policies where you are.

    351. Tam Jardine says:

      Having posted nonsense this evening re this absurd Gallagher characters’ wittering drawing Russia’s greatest writer’s position on the SNP backed up by a hapless misquote, I might as well stab at something more interesting.

      The Devils as it is commonly known is one of the greatest political novels ever written. It is built around the biblical tale of Jesus driving demons out of a man and into a herd of pigs who promptly stampede into a lake.

      Gallagher’s none too subtle inference is that the SNP are the evil spirits and we, the Scottish people are the swine driving headlong over the mountainside into the lake of our financial ruin.

      Well, we have been traduced in less subtle ways I suppose. The book is well worth reading and was extremely controversial back in the 19th century in its sacrilegious treatment of religion and in its banned chapter which told the story of the enigmatic, noble and attractive main character’s rape of a child.

      One of the central characters, the father of the main revolutionary was essentially Ming Campbell- an old liberal- bloated and depraved having lived a life of ease whilst purporting to support in principle all kinds of radical philosophies. His generation’s failure to see through any of his worthy goals (for home rule think emancipation of the serfs) resulted in the ensuing generation casting off the old liberal generation like a snakeskin and working on revolution. He is one of the most pathetic characters a writer ever consigned to the page.

      And so today, at the very moment Theresa May indicates- hard brexit- no prisoners- red line- no input from Scotland or anyone else- we’ll decide what’s best and fuck everyone else… at that moment Willie Rennie decides he is withdrawing his support for Nicolas Sturgeon in her efforts to keep us in the EU.

      You could not make it up.

      P’s Proud Cybernat has made some good suggestions re anti MSM merchandise. If someone can create a T-shirt using the BBC logo as a “bird” sign (which just involves a wee tweak) I would get right behind it. And anything else similar.

      Peace and love to all on this site… sorry for sounding like a wank- it is just my thing.

    352. Tam Jardine says:

      Having posted nonsense this evening re this absurd Gallagher characters’ wittering drawing Russia’s greatest writer’s position on the SNP backed up by a hapless misquote, I might as well stab at something more interesting.

      The Devils as it is commonly known is one of the greatest political novels ever written. It is built around the biblical tale of Jesus driving demons out of a man and into a herd of pigs who promptly stampede into a lake.

      Gallagher’s none too subtle inference is that the SNP are the evil spirits and we, the Scottish people are the swine driving headlong over the mountainside into the lake of our financial ruin.

      Well, we have been traduced in less subtle ways I suppose. The book is well worth reading and was extremely controversial back in the 19th century in its sacrilegious treatment of religion and in its banned chapter which told the story of the enigmatic, noble and attractive main character’s sexual assault of a minor.

      One of the central characters, the father of the main revolutionary was essentially Ming Campbell- an old liberal- bloated and depraved having lived a life of ease whilst purporting to support in principle all kinds of radical philosophies. His generation’s failure to see through any of his worthy goals (for home rule think emancipation of the serfs) resulted in the ensuing generation casting off the old liberal generation like a snakeskin and working on revolution. He is one of the most pathetic characters a writer ever consigned to the page.

      And so today, at the very moment Theresa May indicates- hard brexit- no prisoners- red line- no input from Scotland or anyone else- we’ll decide what’s best and fuck everyone else… at that moment Willie Rennie decides he is withdrawing his support for Nicolas Sturgeon in her efforts to keep us in the EU.

      You could not make it up.

      P’s Proud Cybernat has made some good suggestions re anti MSM merchandise. If someone can create a T-shirt using the BBC logo as a “bird” sign (which just involves a wee tweak) I would get right behind it. And anything else similar.

      Peace and love to all on this site… sorry for sounding like a wank- it is just my thing.

    353. CameronB Brodie says:

      Empire and English nationalism
      ….For Gellner, as for many other commentators, nation and empire were and are antithetical. The great empires of the past belonged to the species of the ‘agro-literate’ society, whose central fact is that ‘almost everything in it militates against the definition of political units in terms of cultural bound-aries’ (Gellner 1983: 11; see also Gellner 1998: 14–24). Power and culture go their separate ways. The political form of empire encloses a vastly differentiated and internally hierarchical society in which the cosmopolitan culture of the rulers differs sharply from the myriad local cultures of the subordinate strata. Modern empires, such as the Soviet empire, continue this pattern of disjuncture between the dominant culture of the elites and the national or ethnic cultures of the constituent parts.

      Nationalism, argues Gellner, closes the gap. It insists that the only legitimate political unit is one in which rulers and ruled share the same culture. Its ideal is one state, one culture. Or, to put it another way, its ideal is the national or the ‘nation-state’, since it conceives of the nation essentially in terms of a shared culture linking all members. Thus ‘if the rulers of the political unit belong to a nation other than that of the majority of the ruled, this, for nationalists, constitutes a quite outstandingly intolerable breach of political propriety’ (Gellner 1983:1). What, therefore, for nationalists could be more outrageous than an empire such as the British where a handful of British men and women ruled over millions of Indians, Africans and others, all of whom contained within themselves the seeds of genuine nationhood?

      ….The argument so far is that the English did not need, or at least did not develop, nationalism in the usual understanding of that term. ‘English nationalism’ sounds strange, both to the English and to others. The English were, for much of their modern history, implicated in a range of enterprises which suppressed the common manifestations of nationalism. There was and is English patriotism, and certainly English xenophobia. There was and is racial Anglo-Saxonism. There is even the ‘Whig interpretation’ of English history, which celebrates English achievements and England’s fortunate separation from the European Continent, with its disastrous history of authoritarianism and civil conflict. But there is no English Herder or Fichte; no English Mazzini or Garibaldi; no Michelet or Mickiewicz, or any equivalent of the nineteenth-century literary quest to discover the ‘Russian soul’. There is nothing in England like the Scottish Declaration of Arbroath (1320), nothing like the idea of ‘national war’ as ‘holy war’ invoked in the Greek Proclamation of Independence (1822) (Kohn 1965: 116).

      Is there an English nationalism today? The transnational causes that gave the English a sense of identity – Protestantism, industrialism, imperialism – are either weak or absent. The European Union, to many English people, is as much a threat as a promise. The presence of a large minority of non-European, non-white, citizens continues to be a source of anxiety to a considerable section of the white majority in the country. Scots, and to a lesser extent Welsh and Irish, show a disposition to pull out of the United Kingdom and to make their own arrangements with Brussels. Looking at the matter in one way, we might be tempted to say that the protective layers that allowed the English to ignore questions of national identity have now all fallen away. The questions are back with a vengeance. There are several small groups around which think they have the answers, though they are yet to convince most people. Of greater significance is a Conservative Party which, swept out of the Celtic regions, may be the English nationalist party in waiting….

    354. CameronB Brodie says:

      And finally, as wee Willie Rennie might say, wheeeeee!

      Labour must stop feeling repulsed by the idea of Englishness

    355. Petra says:

      @ Robert Peffers says at 11:53 pm …. ”The English Kingdom was, and still is, “A Constitutional Monarchy”, in which the monarch remains sovereign but has delegated their sovereignty, “The Right of Kings”, to the Parliament of England when, in 1688, they deposed the English Monarch and imported the foreign King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange but forced them to accept the conditions of delegating their sovereignty to the parliament of England.

      Scotland, then still independent, had NOT deposed their monarch but had long, since at least 1320, had a monarch who was NOT legally sovereign and hence could not legally give up Scottish sovereignty as it is the people of Scotland who legally hold sovereignty in Scotland.

      Which was why the two kingdoms were still fighting the Scottish Jacobite uprisings at Culloden in 1745 long after the Scottish Parliamentarians sold Scotland’s independence for their own personal gain. So the two legal systems were incompatible and to get the treaty signed there had to be compromise.

      This is seen in the text of the Treaty as the Scottish legal system to remain independent forever. The English Monarch not allowed to head a Scottish Church and the Scottish Education system totally independent.”


      Thanks Robert. Your posts are always extremely interesting and informative.

      However does anyone else remember having history lessons stuffed RIGHT down your bl**dy throat from Alfred the Great to Queen Lizzie? Our Scottish Kings and Queens were never mentioned at all. Mary Queen of Scots was a taboo subject (and now we know why).

      Alfred the Great the so-called first English King? Well he wasn’t. He was the King of Wessex (a small part of England).

      However this example was always used to convince us Scots that the English Royal line was much older and important than the Scots.

      From all historical accounts the first English King was Athelstan who ruled ALL of England from 927 to 939AD.

      The first Scottish King was Kenneth mac Alpin or Kenneth, son of Alpin who ruled ALL of Scotland from 844AD. Nearly 100 hundred years beforehand.

      * In other words the Royal Family of Scotland is more ancient than the English (and ‘they’ don’t like it).

      Then if you look at the Royal lines of both England and Scotland the English line ends with Henry V111’s children; Mary, Elizabeth and Edward, that is with Elizabeth in 1603 (conspiracy theory she was actually a man). All die without issue … nae weans so along comes James the 6th of Scotland (the first of England): Mary Queen of Scots only surviving child.

      Wowee! No real English Royals for over 400 years. It ended with Elizabeth the 1st. No one told us about that either!

      Well maybe not. The latest news (within the last five years) is that a Plantaganet granddaughter survived the slaughter of her family and lived on to form a blood line all the way to Australia (ordinary family now). Not to forget their name was Hastings (and Campbell) and that dear Flora Hastings is buried in Scotland. Flora whom Queen Victoria vented her sickening bile upon and paid the price for that .. to some extent.

      Whatever the case anyone coming from the English York Family Tree (English Royal Family) would be considered to be a charlatan as Richard 111’s DNA knocks that right on the head. Queen Lizzie is an ‘imposter’ (her mother also said to be born to a French maid), as is Charles, William and George. A bunch of folks who live, burp and fart just like you and I. Ordinaire in other words.

      The Scottish line (Stuart) continued however in the purist of ways (hopefully) with James the 1st, Charles 1st and 2nd, James 2nd, Mary and Anne.

      During this time the Act of Settlement was introduced which excluded all Roman Catholics from ever becoming King (59 of them). No doubt in the main Stuarts. They were all by-passed until they came to the Protestant George the 1st of Hanover (Germany).

      But he, hey, was DIRECTLY linked to the Stuart line (Scottish not ever English). No doubt because the Stuarts married into every Royal Family in Europe (and beyond). Bonnie Prince Charlie’s mother was in fact Polish (and extraordinarily beautiful).

      * Queenie’s link to the throne is through the Stuarts (Scots).

      The point of all of this is to highlight that the English Royal family line ended over 400 years ago.

      The Scottish Royal family (Jacobean) line continues to this very day.

      And well surprise, surprise it all ends in Liechtenstein as you can see. Said to be the richest country in the World (per capita).

      Looking forward to a wee holiday there now.

      I’m not into having any Royal bod rule the roost by by God I’d rather have this lot, such as Princess Marie-Caroline and her brother Prince Joseph Wenzel, any day of the week to the horse-faced parasites that rule the roost in the UK right now.

      I’m not into financial havens either but if you are double land locked and have no natural resources then this is the way to go. Maybe?

      Take note also that this Royal Family are well respected and much loved by their countrymen (and women). They pay their own way (OK have their own bank) and mix with the plebs. Unlike Lizzie et al.

      Brexit? Interesting? England forget it. Scotland’s relatives ……. ? Here we come!

      Brexit: Could Liechtenstein be a model for the UK? – BBC Newsnight

    356. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Gerry Hassan
      Do you see the light?

    357. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, one more. Here’s Tariq Ali introducing a short vid-e-o on Benedict Anderson’s “Imagined Communities: Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism”

    358. liz g says:

      Tam jardine @ 12.31
      Never nonsense from you,but rather always thought provoking and insightful.
      I think we are all probably feeling a bit retrospect tonight because of the shift in positions that just seems to have happened, I.E. Westminster/May has taken some sort of stance and if true it is now game on.
      But the information seems to be a bit muted,although we all know what it means.
      Take a breath my friend and have confidence that the knowledge you share here is valued,and keep on keeping on. X

    359. manandboy says:

      Another nights sleep is over and we wake refreshed of mind and body. And the Beast we call News Media is already crouching, ready to pounce.

      Today’s news agenda has already been decided by such as Rupert Murdoch and the British Establishment. But it is not their intention to inform and educate our minds but rather to control them – and us.

      This is the most brainwashed generation that has ever lived.

    360. manandboy says:

      With yesterday’s Brexit meeting of the Cabinet at Chequers, Theresa May made two statements. One is that she is going to model her premiership on Mgt Thatcher, and two, that she is determined to surpass the Iron Lady.

      Brexit will be hard as iron and forged after the manner of the British Empire. Scotland and Northern Ireland will have got the message – get in line!

    361. David Crines says:

      Stiglitz’ intellect soars above his contemporaries in the arena of economic academia. His writings always include a social element so often missing in the discipline. His recent The Price of Inequality’ savages the failure of Neo Liberal economics in the USA and offers a critique of the greed and unchallenged dominance of what he calls ‘the 10%’. He doesn’t miss either when he analyses the UK and the EU.
      If he says, ‘Independent currency for Scotland’, I for one am listening closely.

      Overall BBC Scotland is a propaganda unit in favour of retention of a Union that increasingly only zealots favour. Following Brexit, many former unionists have revised their view and very welcome they are too. But the Beeb ploughs onwards on the old straight furrow. I don’t watch or listen much now. I don’t bother to complain either when I do inadvertently stumble across another example of them trying to discredit anything positive for the independence cause. They reject complaints routinely even though thousands are making the same point!

      Boycotting or even mass opting to not pay the licence fee seem to me to be the best options. The unionist press sells copy in tiny numbers now. Hit the BBC in precisely the same way. Get your news elsewhere – here’s pretty good!

    362. Ken500 says:

      If Willy Young stopped wasting taxpayers money on grotesque projects the majority do not want there would be plenty of money for public services like health care, education etc. May 2017.

      ‘White elephant’ roads to nowhere. Bridge of Don – £Millions. Grotesque Muse project £Millions. An absolute disgrace. People were protesting in the street. Refused a Gift of £80Million to pedestrianise the City Centre. UTG Project. Supported by the majority. Planning to spend £300Million on a Conference Centre, with no business case. The present one is used on average one day a month and subsidised with public money. Willy Young is a disgrace. Not fit for public office. Sanctioned time and time again.

      The Tory/Unionists blaming the SNP for poverty. Westminster have been robbing Scotland for years. Thatcher illegally took the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland and lied about it. The Unionists are lying about the Scottish economy and the deficit they have caused for years. McCrone Report. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. The Tories want out of the EU so they can tax evade. They haven’t a clue what to do next. Another four years of chaos while they line their pockets. Labour are in chaos. A complete mess.

      The Tories were elected to cut the debt and protect the NHS. They have done neither. Increased the debt and underfunding the ENHS. Cutting taxes and trying to privatise the NHS. A bunch of total liars. Doctors strikes in England.

      It doesn’t matter what currency is used. It is just a form of exchange. What matters is if the books are balanced. Scotland has always balanced the books and been in surplus which Westminster took and squandered. Scotland is still paying nearly £4Billion a year in loan repayments on funds it doesn’t borrow or spend. £1Billion on Trident a complete waste of money. The Scottish Gov can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading drink- £1Billion. Scotland has lost £4Billion+ in Oil revenues a year. (£20Billion). Osbourne taxing the Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%, losing thousands of jobs. It is now 40%, since Jan 2016. Scotland loses £3Billion? In tax evasion. Whisky companies etc tax evade. HMRC is not fit for purpose. Total £13Billion. The ‘Deficit’.

    363. manandboy says:

      Brexit – a material change? It doesn’t look like it, does it?

      Theresa May says we’re all in it together – but Westminster will make the decisions I allow them to.

      It’s going to be rough.

    364. Ken500 says:

      Would Thatcher have taken the UK out of the EU? Or sanctioned people and starved them? She moved people over to sickness benefit. There were over 3Million unemployed and interest rates at 15%. Falklands fiasco etc. ‘Loads of money bankers’. Banking deregulation. Building societies demutualised. Utilities sold off. Now owned by foreign State companies. Thatcher spent the Oil revenues building up London S/E. Tilbury docks, Canary Wharf etc. There was higher unemployment pro rata in Scotland. Thatcher closed down manufacturing facilities in Scotland. No investment in manufacturing. Relied on service industries. Banking.

      At least the SNP stand up for Scotland.

    365. Breeks says:

      Maybe the YES infantry should be engaging with Brexit.

      Never mind your supermarkets sticking ‘Jack’ shit on your produce, I find it more alarming the “Scotch” whisky, Arbroath Smokies, Stornoway Black pudding, Orkney beef and lamb, Scotch beef and lamb, Harris Tweed, Fairisle jerseys, etc will lose their protected status when the UK bungles out of existing trade agreements.

      Now is the time we should be filling these pages and blogs with information on who suffers what as a direct consequence of England’s europhobic histrionics. Let us flesh up what exiting the EU will actually mean if we somehow fail to stop it happening.

      I know, I know, I know, it might be branded scaremongering and negative, but the big difference is there is due cause to be worried. These events will come to pass if we do not escape the Union.

      The media is wholly preoccupied with freedom of movement, which by my reckoning scarcely warrants a mention in the small print of the bigger issues looming over the Brexit horizon.

      Am I advocating a Scotland which is afraid of the consequences of leaving Europe? Yes. I rather think I am. I do not see any up side to be positive about.

      @Nana – I liked your links here Nana. Please bring them back where they belong.

    366. Liz g says:

      Welcome home Nanna,n nice to see you back where you belong. X

    367. Macart says:

      On yer marks!

      Get set…

      So are we clear yet readers?

      This isn’t the SNP against Labour or the Conservatives. This isn’t party politics or the petty politics of personality and it never was.

      This is about Holyrood’s system of politics and view of society versus Westminster’s system of politics and view of society.

      What KIND of country do you want to live in?

    368. Macart says:

      Mornin’ Nana. 🙂

    369. manandboy says:

      So good to see those words ‘Nana says’. Liz g is right, this is where you belong.

    370. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning,good to see you back on this side,that Paula Rose
      was trying to make me her accomplice on off topic to keep you
      there and I was scared of her spiky heels! Peace,Love and links with morning coffee. 🙂

    371. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:
      at 6:58 am

      “Brexit will be hard as iron and forged after the manner of the British Empire. Scotland and Northern Ireland will have got the message – get in line!”

      at 7:22 am

      “It’s going to be rough.”

      Yes. The Iron Lady II knows where the SG stand and knows that IndyRef2 will happen if Brexit wrenches Scotland completely away from the EU. Implicit in her stance is that she is willing to go head to head with Scotland on this and make a fight of it.

      All talk of Norway/Greenland/Switzerland soft Brexit solutions are almost certainly over.

      Thanks Heavens we have an SNP government led by Nicola in a parliament with a pro Indy majority.

      And we must also remember Northern Ireland and Gibraltar have serious issues with hard Brexit.

      This WILL end well, but not for May and I fear not for England.

    372. Tinto Chiel says:

      Tam Jardine: I am enjoying your Dostoevsky Period. Can’t wait to hear your Grand Inquisitor/Brothers Karamazov thoughts.

      I read most of his big works when quite young and found them fascinating but his descent into extreme religiosity and political conservatism put me off eventually.

      CBB: those quotations were interesting but I explain the apparent lack of English nationalism is that their position in the UK was barely challenged by the other nations. I’m sure most English people think Wales, Ireland and Scotland were simply annexed and are, somehow, theirs. A concession is made to them by using the weasel word British but the English Establishment thinks it is the default position and everything else is inferior/irrelevant. This leads them into manifest absurdities like Mundell’s crazy comments regarding the Treaty of Union. This mixture of arrogance and ignorance will be their undoing, as Brexit will show. England has few friends in Europe, although Merkel might try to minimise some of the retribution that’s a-coming.

      It’s only since the independence question has become more serious that we see the nastier side of English nationalism manifesting itself in general xenophobia and Jock-baiting. This can only get worse.

      Cameron, I don’t think Gerry’s listening. He’ll be penning another right-on piece for Bella telling us the SNP aren’t left-wing enough and that Corbyn is the answer.

      Or maybe Federalism.

      Tooth Fairy?

    373. Robert Kerr says:

      Welcome back to the fold Nana.

      Our linking linker to so many disparate items.

      Much appreciated.

    374. Nana says:

      Morning everyone. Okay where do I find a sheepish looking emoticon?

      Sharing one of my favourite songs with you all

    375. marydoll says:


      Radio Shortbread ‘s phone-in is about referendum(s). Could it be that they are trying to persuade the listeners that the next indyref is nothing and will not be worth voting in?

    376. galamcennalath says:

      Smith is now saying: “All of those promises were contingent on Labour being in power and Labour isn’t in power.”

      Bollocks. They were lies. There was never any intention to implement them.

      If they had been Labour promises, then why didn’t Labour propose them to Smith. Labour did the opposite and were DevoMin.

      The false promises were made by everyone associated with BT in a coordinated manner beginning 8th Sept. IMO this was driven straight from Cameron. They were all in it, and they were all singing from a Tory song sheet.

      It was a panic measure when private polling hold them they were losing. It should never have been done and they will live to regret it.

    377. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana I hope you enjoyed yer morning oot in O/T,your tripple lock’d in on the Main thread by popular demand. I gave that Paula Rose what for for allowing you to do menial task’s ( washing up they’re dirty dishes indeed )keep those dijits for the more important work LINKS.

      Big Hugs xxx

    378. marydoll says:

      scott is on – Radio Shortbread
      Also the ‘expert’ was from the Electoral Reform Society – the Labour think-tank

    379. Another Union Dividend says:

      Dr Scott Arthur on call Kaye blaming Indy ref for bad health and education performance and accusing YES supporters fooling poor people with prospect of a better life.

    380. Hamish100 says:

      Radio Scottyland,

      If Scotland wishes another referendum let’s have a minimum timeline- by that time we will be brexitted.

    381. Tam The Bam says:

      Macart at 08:18 says……

      I see that as a poster with two columns (titled Scotland and UK). List the positive things happening in Scotland now and compare again UK e.g. NHS, Disabled benefit claiments etc. and then at the bottom of the poster add in your last statement:

      What KIND of country do you want to live in?

    382. galamcennalath says:

      Tam The Bam says:

      “two columns”

      Also the only two possible futures. IScotland as part of the EU versus North Britain in an isolationist xenophobic far right Brexit UK.

      The contrast between these two will be greater than anything we have seen so far.

    383. Tam The Bam says:

      galamcennalath – agreed!

    384. Macart says:

      @ galamcennalath

      Pretty much.

    385. Eppy says:

      I may have been half asleep at 6.35 am but I am sure that I heard someone on radio 4 talking about the new charge for using the “BBC Lie-player”. Never a true word.

    386. call me dave says:

      Can’t post it as on tablet but I read that Weee Willie has taken the huff and won’t support Sturgeon’s effort to explore fully how Scotland remains in Europe and in the UK.

      Nobody has consulted him, he’s been ignored by the think tank, he’s got some ideas he says but nobody’s listening 🙂


      Kaye on shortbread..referendum,dummmy da dum, yeah yeah yeah yeah ha ha!

      Woe woaha dooby doo doo… only the lonely!

      Morning Nana.

    387. Fireproofjim says:

      I havn’t seen any opinion polls on the current Yes/No situation for some time.
      I would have thought that disillusioned Slab voters and pro-EU voters would be swelling our ranks by now.
      Does anyone know of poll results?

    388. Fred says:

      Great stuff Nana, thanks for the wee lift!

      “Scotland Free or a Desert!”

      The 1820 Society’s annual commemoration to the Martyr’s Monument in Sighthill Cemetery is changed to Sunday September 11. Assemble at the cemetery gates on Springburn Road @ 2 o clock for 2.30.

    389. Dr Jim says:


      You are indeed correct Breeks, post Brexit all EU Protected Brand status will be lost and as you say things like Harris Tweed or even the name “Scotch” can be used and copied by anyone, or they can simply stick a Union Flag on it and call it British Whisky or British pies and the problem is who’s going to stop them, and here’s where our American cousins come in to help rebrand good old England into, let’s say Home of Golf or English Angus Beef

      All that is only what our English cousins could do think about what other countries could involve themselves in without the power of the EU to stop them

      The FM has been correct from the start about the massive affect on Scotland financially with Brexit but I think folk have only been concerning themselves with the most obvious stuff and not realising that Scotch Salmon just became “Fish” in a plastic bag and who cares where it came from because Morrisons sells Salmon from elsewhere right now right here in Scotland and they stick a Union Flag on that piece of “Norwegian Fish”

    390. Nana says:


      Gordon McIntyre Kemp giving a talk entitled The new economics of independence in Elgin later this month

      Details here

    391. Marie Clark says:

      Em, maybe I’m missing something here, but if Owen whatshisface is claiming that the vow were labour promises and would only happen under a labour government, why did the other two stooges Clegg and Cameron sign up to it as well?

      Funny that, I don’t recall anyone telling us it all relied on us getting a labour government.

    392. Petra says:

      Great links Nana. Thanks too for the brilliant video. Yea a change is gonna come right enough. Thank God.

    393. Jack Murphy says:

      geeo said at 11:44 pm last night:-
      “Kezia seems to have backed the wrong horse again…

      Humza has a cracking post regarding ‘scottish’ labour on twitter apparently.

      Her choice of labour leader has completely disembowelled her.

      No link, dont do twitter, sorry.”


      “When the ballots land today – I’ll be voting for @owensmith2016

      Here’s why:”

      Dugdale’s Twitter message leads to the Record,so I will NOT include a link.

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