Hostile environment
Posted on
May 15, 2021 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-26
- 04-26
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-24
- 04-24
- 04-22
- 04-20
- 04-20
- 04-18
- 04-18
- 04-17
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-12
- 04-11
- 04-10
- 04-09
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Salmond pointed out. That it took from 2011 to 2014 to get a referendum, and he started on day one.
He pointed out that Cameron’s position on a section 30, was not what it was in 2011. Salmond pushed Cameron into a concession, with a very clever strategy. Many believe they just agreed at the outset because the SNP won the election.
If Nicola was serious. She would start all the negotiations now, in readiness for the end of the pandemic. If she plans to wait and wait. Then forget indy ref 2 in this parliament.
Which is why we are all confident that there won’t be a referendum. She demonstrates this every day she delays.
@Stuart MacKay – 17 May, 2021 at 4:52 pm
‘Apparently so many people are rushing to affirm the “too wee, too poor, too stupid” mantra.’
Tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands, of so-called Scottish Independence supporters just went out and voted SNP1 SNP2. By doing so, they denied the pro-Indy super-majority in Hollyrood that was there for the taking if they could have been arsed to understand the system and how to make their votes count.
There’s your “too stupid” right there.
If you want my advice, you will add a new term to the mantra.
Too lazy.
Pixywine, yes I am well aware that there is an enormous number of coronaviruses. This is a novel coronavirus, it is a new form, there’s nothing odd about that. 20% of common colds are caused by coronaviruses and there are altogether 7 types which infect humans. Why do you find it so hard to believe in the existence of the current one?
No, you are nothing like me.
@Big Jock 6:30pm
We have a similar profile. I am absolutely hoping Stu’s works get archived in the National Library of Scotland. Why?. Because his claims about Sturgeon will be proven to be true. His assertions will be frozen in suspension for now. After time pillow talk, the new movie, the new book etc will release new material for the revisionist historians to have a field day. Absolutely confident it will come out in the wash. Academics don’t you just love them?. Probably not but they will get to the truth eventually. I can’t tell when that will be but Sturgeon should forget about her legacy of a foundation in her name. It will be built on match sticks.
We’re gonna have a cartoon a week until November. Mostly, they will be supplied by Chris Cairns. I guess Stella or Rev Stu himself will fill in as golfing holiday relief. Stella would be my choice, as I don’t believe Rev Stu really sees himself as a practising cartoonist. Well, he does practice but hasn’t quite mastered the art.
Is every new page gonna turn into this example? Where the actual subject of the cartoon – Hamish (Scotland) and his backup, standing against Westminster imposed idealogical policies – is suppressed, in a rush to prove that one particular theory about coronavirus is more believable than another?
And it’s only Tuesday. Another three and a bit days until we get a fresh page to comment on.
D:Ream/Labour 1997 springs to mind.
A quote from this page:-
https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/
““A world of conspiracy theories, hatred and paranoia. This is a brand of nationalism that seeks to peddle falsehoods and unfounded allegations against anyone who isn’t a believer. It is nasty, sewage politics that debases public life. And yet the Wings Over Scotland [sic] is cited as an authoritative source by some leading SNP figures who really should know better.”
– Murray Foote (Daily Record)”
Oh, THAT Murray Foote!
Does any one know the deaths from influenza for England and Wales 2018/2019?
Does anyone know the total winter mortality deaths for England and Wales 2018/2019.
Does anyone know if the mortality deaths for covid have been counted separately from flu deaths in England and Wales for 2019/ /2020 as I can’t find that particular years statistics?
Have they ceased counting flu or other winter mortality deaths when covid started?
Ruby says:
“Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?
Do you think being colonised is the root cause?”
The short answer is yes. Sir Harry Burns, former Chief Medical Officer, considered Scotland’s poor health statistics to be very similar to other aborigine peoples who have become ‘dislocated from their culture’ mainly as a result of colonialism. Aso related to colonialism, Professor Michael Hechter found Scotland’s structural inequalities were due in part to an imposed ethnic/cultural division of labour. This it was argued is a consequence of colonialism which results in under-development of a people and their culture, which is also a result of cultural and linguistic imperialism and the imposition and domination of an elite cultural hegemony which does not reflect the indigenous culture, language or values, leading to discrimination becoming institutionalised and oppression internalised, and hence fewer socio-economic opportunities for the indigenous people.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/05/01/is-scottish-independence-decolonisation/
Tannadice Boy @ 7:33
“Academics don’t you just love them?. Probably not but they will get to the truth eventually.”
Yes, and here’s an example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doun-Hauden-Socio-Political-Determinants-Scottish-Independence-ebook/dp/B086ZTRXM8/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=scottish+independence&qid=1621363853&sr=8-4
Very interesting Alf, but I think it’s more to do with booze,fags, greasy fish /chips, kebab and burger shops, lack of exercise etc etc.
Cultural and linguistic imperialism? No’ really!
Alf Baird says:
18 May, 2021 at 7:44 pm
The short answer is yes.
Reply
Thank you Alf that is very interesting.
akenaton says:
18 May, 2021 at 8:17 pm
Very interesting Alf, but I think it’s more to do with booze,fags, greasy fish /chips, kebab and burger shops, lack of exercise etc etc.
Reply
None of the above leads to drug or alcohol addiction.
So, (I hate starting sentences with “So”)
How many of the commenters on this page are gonna be at Holyrood on Saturday, to demonstrate our desire for INDEPENDENCE?
https://caltonjock.com/2021/05/18/malfeasance-in-government-must-not-be-condoned-the-lord-advocate-needs-to-stop-it/
The Alex Salmond debacle provided evidence of serious shortcomings in the SNP government led by Nicolas Sturgeon and there are growing concerns her government has become distracted by the pursuit of controversial political doctrine with result that it has lost its way in the efficient provision of Health, Education, policing and local government.
Worryingly boundaries between politicians, the Scottish Government, the Scottish civil service and the Law are being compromised, placing the health and well being of the people of Scotland increasingly at risk of political and social disorder due to the imposition of draconian laws and policies changing the accepted norms of society without consultation or approval of the electorate.
@Alf Baird 7:54pm
Now that maybe interesting reading Alf or at least the precis is promising. I would prefer this literature to Fanon.
Any Indy Rally will be hijacked by the Sturgeon lot, taking full credit for it and she will tell the world that Boris Johnson is a very bad man for not allowing Scotland it’s rightful Independence Referendum.
She will be full of faux outrage.
Rinse and Repeat.
I am not given Sturgeon the chance to claim any credit off the back of me marching up and down an Edinburgh street.
Get an Referendum date wrote down in black and white Nicola.
Then I might consider getting back on the Campaign Trail.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
18 May, 2021 at 8:29 pm
So, (I hate starting sentences with “So”)
How many of the commenters on this page are gonna be at Holyrood on Saturday, to demonstrate our desire for INDEPENDENCE?
answer. no-one. AUOB have said games a bogey, as they don’t want folk travelling through from the level 3 area of Glasgow.
https://twitter.com/AUOBNOW/status/1394715452706861063
Brian Doonthetoon says:at 7:35 pm
“We’re gonna have a cartoon a week until November. Mostly, they will be supplied by Chris Cairns. I guess Stella or Rev Stu himself will fill in as golfing holiday relief. Stella would be my choice, as I don’t believe Rev Stu really sees himself as a practising cartoonist. Well, he does practice but hasn’t quite mastered the art.”
Pfft! That’s an outrageous, insulting, derogatory, hurtful, and quite possibly verging on hate speech comment!
I thought Stu’s previous work was a stunning modern day manifestation of the Lowryesque genre. 🙂
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-saturday-cartoon/
Big Jock @ 18.57
I didn’t hear all of her acceptance speech today but I did hear the bit where she said that for as long as the pandemic exists she will direct all her efforts to steering the country through that safely.
Did she mention Independence?
After all, she could have said that she will begin preparations for an Indy ref later this summer if the virus figures are got under control or some similar throw away remark just to give the lumpin proles some hope.
Still, she promises to make this the best country ‘to grow up in’.
Pity for those of us who have already grown up.
Anyone know what`s happening with Craig Murray,
has Judge Dorian got him in chains yet or is the judge waiting on orders from She/Her on what to do next.
Meg merrilees says: at 9:21 pm
“Still, she promises to make this the best country ‘to grow up in’.
Pity for those of us who have already grown up.”
Maybe all Scots should just start necking those puberty blockers and we can stall time till we all, as a nation, are ready to grow up and take full responsibility for governing ourselves…
https://archive.is/ghPom#selection-985.0-989.82
Info for anyone planning on take the bus to Holyrood.
Road closed for 7 months. Residents to take taxis.
The newly elected Edinburgh Central MSP might have a few problems to sort out.
Can’t help thinking that the last 7 months would have been a better time to do this.
@ Scot Finlayson.
June 7th?
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1394645791109787649
Brian Doonthetoon says:
I don’t believe Rev Stu really sees himself as a practising cartoonist. Well, he does practice but hasn’t quite mastered the art.
Reply
Oh I don’t know about.
I see no reason why his work couldn’t be eligible for the Turner Prize. I thought it was a very memorable piece of work with a very profound message.
I thought it was a very memorable piece of work.
PS The language in the you tube video that you didn’t know if it was Italian or Spanish was Portuguese.
@Briandoonthedoon 7:35pm
I have met you and will testify to your Independence credentials. Myself I prefer a stall on the street to persuade people. I have marched up and down Carlton Hill and it never made any difference. The one thing Sturgeon has got right. It’s counter productive. I wish you well in Dundee. We have already left Dundee. My wife is delighted I am not. Moved further south for the time being but still in Scotland for family reasons. Soon to leave after something happens. I wish you well. Keep the good fight up in Dundee.
I noticed that John Swinney was bagged earlier today. Sounded to me like Sturgeon wanted rid of him as quickly as possible. The forensic MSP from Dumbarton was less than complimentary about Swinney’s achievements to date, imploring him to try much harder next time. Minister for Covid Recovery cannot be that complex, can it?
He just needs to be joined by that other vainglorious fool James Wolffe and we will at last be getting somewhere.
PaulaJ says:
18 May, 2021 at 4:37 pm
Ruby says:
“Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?
Do you think being colonised is the root cause?”
I honestly don’t know, Ruby, but I can’t remember ever talking to anyone who suggested that was the cause. Sad, if true.
Reply
Neither have I.
It was just something I thought might be a possibility.
“I don’t believe Rev Stu really sees himself as a practising cartoonist. Well, he does practice” @ Dan says at 9:21pm
I think his male anatomy drawing on his spoilt ballot paper was one of his finer postmodernist pieces!
😉
@Captain Yossarian 10:09pm
I could have bagged Swinney in 2015 but didn’t. And suspect many others could have. Wheest for Indy and all that. It’s over. The cause is lost. I would ask you to consider the fate of the undying faithful. It’s not hit them yet. As the recent elections have confirmed. The one thing I want you to do, as you are a Unionist, is to promote the archiving of these articles into the NLS. If you are fair you would want that. History will be kind to Stu. And archiving will be untouchable in the years ahead. Don’t be frightened of the truth however unpalatable that proves to be.
Ruby says:
18 May, 2021 at 10:30 pm
PaulaJ says:
“Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?
Do you think being colonised is the root cause?”
What the Hell is wrong with you brains ? Scotland has nevee ever been a colony , Scotland chose to join the bigfer UK by its own choice , Get off you knees for Gods sake and stop the fake whining.Scotland CHOSE to jin the UK to get access to Englands trade routes after nearly being Bankcrupted by the Darien Scheme Cock up, learn soem effing History instead of making up your own fantasties.
Ruby says:
18 May, 2021 at 10:30 pm
PaulaJ says:
“Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?
Do you think being colonised is the root cause?”
What the Hell is wrong with your brains ? Scotland has nevee ever been a colony , Scotland chose to join the bigfer UK by its own choice , Get off you knees for Gods sake and stop the fake whining.Scotland CHOSE to jin the UK to get access to Englands trade routes after nearly being Bankcrupted by the Darien Scheme Cock up, learn soem effing History instead of making up your own fantasties.
@James Che. 18 May, 2021 at 7:37 pm
“Does any one know the deaths from influenza for England and Wales 2018/2019?
Does anyone know the total winter mortality deaths for England and Wales 2018/2019.
Does anyone know if the mortality deaths for covid have been counted separately from flu deaths in England and Wales for 2019/ /2020 as I can’t find that particular years statistics?
Have they ceased counting flu or other winter mortality deaths when covid started?”
How hard can it be ?
https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/deathsduetocovid19comparedwithdeathsfrominfluenzaandpneumonia
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfrominfluenzain2019and2020
I’m sure you will have worked out WHY Flu Deaths are down ? Social diostancing, working from Home , Extra Free Flu Jabs down to age 50, Hand sanatising, Lockdowns etc ect ect
Ruby, for what it’s worth, I have suggested that is the case. Not just on specific things like alcohol but also generally on the collective psyche and attitudes. I’ve lived in two former colonies and have ties with a third, and it was the North American Indians who made me realize what is going on in Scotland. They unintentionally made me see myself and thereby my kin in their own context. The Scots are miserable and if you grew up being treated as if your people are inferior it’s not hard to see why, and seeing similar outcomes, attitudes and behaviours in other much more obviously and visibly subjugated people drew some incredible similarities for me. They’d scoff and ridicule me for saying it, but yes, they are suffering in a similar way to indigenous people. It’s not just drugs, it’s everything. Even how we treat each other. I also notice the other side, the ‘settler’ side, the guilty consciences, insecurity and brutal attitudes that are common across the globe.
See what I mean? Furious denial.
Ruby
Scotland DIDNT’t choose to join the UK, ordinary people did not have a vote. It was a handful of Aristos who saw the chance to make money for themselves by joining England and they received payment for doing so. In fact the people rioted all over Scotland in protest with troops brought into Edinburgh and elsewhere.
I`m sorry but your ignorance of this important fact of Scottish history and the Union is quite staggering.
I don’t know or what you are but to suggest Scotland has not been treated as a colony suggest you must be a raving Unionist.
‘Yossarian’ (colonel) “The forensic MSP from Dumbarton…”
COMEDY GOLD!
Graham @ 11:15 pm
“Ruby, for what it’s worth, I have suggested that is the case. Not just on specific things like alcohol but also generally on the collective psyche and attitudes.”
This is the case, Graham. On the matter of ‘national psyche’, Dr. David Purves notes the following in his book ‘A Scots Grammar’:
“Since the Treaty of Union in 1707, generations of Scots have had to come to terms with a situation in which they were taught English at school, and where the way of speech natural to them was officially regarded as wrong by definition, or as a dialect unworthy of use as a serious medium of communication. The dilemma involved introduced a schizoid element into the national psyche, for with many people, the ‘true self’ associated with the complex of feelings and attitudes acquired at home in childhood had to be denied in the interests of material advancement, in favour of a false persona.”
There is nothing natural about cultural and linguistic imperialism, or colonialism, all of which leaves a messed up people in its wake.
It is worth noting that the Celts are the indigenous people of these isles. The Anglo-Saxons are not.
@ McDuff at 11.32
It is not Ruby who is saying that Scotland chose to “join the UK”.
It is Don at 11.03, referencing an earlier post by Ruby.
Don doesn’t know
a) how to use blockquote
b) that the UK did not exist prior to 1707, and therefore Scotland did not “join” it, but participated in creating it
c) that, as you point out, it was only the elite who made the decision (and only they who risked bankruptcy).
It is therefore Don who should take his own advice and “learn soem effing History” (sic), and whom you might wish to address when you say
I see that Rhiannon Spear has become the Women’s Convener on the Snp NEC again , do any Snp members know if there was a vote taken by the membership on her election or was she just *put* into the position by Mr & Mrs Murrell . That’s another blow for women’s rights with her back in the post .
I wonder who’ll now be *put* into the the vacant post of equalities Convener although we’ve all got a good idea who that’ll be ?.
Tannadice Boy says:
18 May, 2021 at 10:40 pm
‘History will be kind to Stu’ – It’s a great shame these events weren’t taking place 3 or 4 months ago. All the information was there and someone just had to step forward with it. It makes you wonder if Holyrood will ever be any good, doesn’t it. They lack the confidence and the gumption to do anything which could be seen as controversial and the complexities of independence seem to me to be utterly beyond them all.
Wherever you end-up in the world, there will be no need to miss your football. I used to listen to ‘Off the Ball’ every Saturday in Africa.
Asked via twitter if there would be any interest in a Friends of Wings social before the end of this year.
Healthy response, with the to-be-expected scattering of angry dismissals, but a lot has changed since we had the last one. Regardless of who’s to blame for the changed atmosphere, what’s the feeling here?
Don says:
18 May, 2021 at 11:04 pm
What the Hell is wrong with your brains ? Scotland has nevee ever been a colony , Scotland chose to join the bigfer UK by its own choice
—————————————————————
Scotland did not join the UK, we entered into an enforced union with England that created the UK, the UK didn’t exist before then you f@cking idiot.
Your time would be much better spent educating yourself rather that wasting your time on here talking shite.
Saffron Robe @ 1:12 am
“It is worth noting that the Celts are the indigenous people of these isles. The Anglo-Saxons are not.”
The Neolithic peoples in Scotland predate ‘Celts’ by a considerable length as did the Pictish tribes who were around pre and during the Roman period mostly along the east coast. The north and north-east of Scotland and northern isles were also heavily Norse influenced during the viking period, whilst from medieval times the more heavily populated eastern Scotland historically traded with the near continent and Baltic which influenced population and language development, particularly the development of the Scots language and culture, the latter giving us the basis of our national consciousness, in addition to Celtic influence.
Scotland has two indigenous languages efter aw – Scots and Gaelic – yet only one has been afforded statutory authority and support. As Billy Kay wrote, a consequence of this anti-Scots language prejudice and general misunderstanding, which is politically motivated, is that British “educationalists often refer to the ‘inarticulate Scot’ as if it were a hereditary disease, instead of shackling people to one language” (i.e. English), the latter no more than linguistic imperialism and therefore an attempt at linguicide, a common feature of colonialism, which is racism.
Swinney becomes new COVID recovery cabinet secretary.
Ah well, that’s the day off to an interesting start.
So the Succession of Sturgeon is underway. I wonder who is going to take over. I wonder….
Don’s ‘effing history’ is pretty skewed.
Ian B, count me in – child minding duties allowing.
@ Iain Brotherhood re WOS Social
Not having been able to attend any in the past due to personal circumstances – I would very much like to attend one now.
Can I suggest holding it in the open, in a picnic type format.
Also, better get it in before Covid Lockdown 3 starts in August. Can we call that the Rangers strain of the virus do you think? Or would Orange Covid be a better name.
Hi Ian B.
There’s an AUOB static rally at Bannockburn on 26th June. Maybe work around that for a get-together? The Holyrood rally has been cancelled.
Daisy Walker , please don’t suggest a lockdown in August . I know it’s selfish but I have a very BIG birthday in August and I want my kids, sons in law and grandkids in attendance!
Perish the thought of a lockdown then.
Daisy Walker 19 May, 2021 at 8:35 am.
“Also, better get it in before Covid Lockdown 3 starts in August. Can we call that the Rangers strain of the virus do you think? Or would Orange Covid be a better name”
Why not just call it “Kenmure Street” incident as that happened first and likely kicked off any growth in spread of the Virus in Glasgow again or does that not suit your own MO of invented conspiracy theories and “othering” ? Try to get a grip of reality. Why are you not condemning the protest at Holyrood this weekend coming if you think stopping the spread of the Virus is important or do you thinking its only Yoons that can do that ?
Stuart MacKay says: I wrote-in a couple of weeks ago saying that the country I last worked in used to send its crooked parliamentarians to Malaz Jail. There used to be a hand-painted sign on the perimeter wall of Malaz which said ‘we don’t fire warning shots’.
On his first day there, his hair would be shaved-off and he would be de-loused. He would then be allocated a space on the concrete floor to sleep and would be handed a loose carpet which would be his only pocession while there.
I always thought Swinney had that haunted shaven-headed look of Malaz about him you know.
@Stuart MacKay 19 May, 2021 at 8:29 am
“So the Succession of Sturgeon is underway. I wonder who is going to take over. I wonder….”
More than likely the bloke that paid £30K to frig all the polls to get the answers he wanted to fool the willingly gullible. As a political movement we have to be one of the most gullible nations on Earth. https://archive.is/PtMV0
Dave Somerville says:
18 May, 2021 at 8:54 pm
Any Indy Rally will be hijacked by the Sturgeon lot, taking full credit for it and she will tell the world that Boris Johnson is a very bad man for not allowing Scotland it’s rightful Independence Referendum.
She will be full of faux outrage.
Rinse and Repeat.
I am not given Sturgeon the chance to claim any credit off the back of me marching up and down an Edinburgh street.
Get an Referendum date wrote down in black and white Nicola.
Then I might consider getting back on the Campaign Trail.
Nice try, Dave.
You know fine well that Nicola Sturgeon has shunned indy marches for a long long time. She hasn’t been seen near them. With an increasing number of indy supporters now very angry with her, do you think she would be brave enough to face em now?
The people that march will be strong supporters of “Do Something Now!”, many will be activists,many will be ALBA supporters still seething at the way she treated Alex Salmond. So do you think Sturgeon, with her “Now is Not The Time!” stance, will turn up to face the angry mob? Aye right. We march for Scotland, not for Sturgeon. Just sayin. 🙂
Nicola Sturgeon is probably wishing the AUOB marchers would just go away. All the more reason to keep em going. 🙂
Sad how fast these comments become rudderless without fresh posts. Language and ‘scottish identity’ seem to be the prevailing themes – and 1707 this/that/whatever. Who cares? Someone once said that when meeting an Afghan villager, expect them to hold a grudge about wars and invasions from hundreds of years ago. That concept is familiar to anyone sadly browsing these comments.
What is lacking is the voice of business, the voice of economists. You will never convert anyone except the left behinds with this level of looking backwards and downwards.
Why don’t some of the long term supporters of independence on this site, who have been thinking about independence for many years – just start stating (loosely) quantifiable benefits of independence to the economy? There’s an absolute certainty that Scotland is being robbed in this union – lets start talking in solid terms about why that’s true?
Bear in mind 60% of trade (= the livelihoods of regular punters) relies on free movement of goods and people on this single land mass. But don’t forget that a lot of the tax take comes from that trade. You can’t just turn off the taps and still say the bath will fill up anyway – so the experts on these comments – tell the soft no’s how that bath will be filled?
Or how about I just check in tomorrow and find I’ve been called a yoon and everyone just keeps taking in the vague abstract about gaelic and what happened in the past.
If you don’t know how an independent scotland would work as an economy – then you’re in good company. Nobody currently does.
Out.
Captain Yossarian, that doesn’t look like anything I wrote, unless of course there’s somebody else with the same name.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
18 May, 2021 at 10:35 pm
“I think his male anatomy drawing on his spoilt ballot paper was one of his finer postmodernist pieces!”
#HateCrimeKlaxon
FFS JWT, this is Scotland 2021, and you should well know by now that it is also quite feasible for a woman with her female anatomy to sport a cock and baws.
Please kerb your misgendering, ignorance of the law is no excuse!
Don says:
19 May, 2021 at 8:49 am
Daisy Walker 19 May, 2021 at 8:35 am.
“Also, better get it in before Covid Lockdown 3 starts in August. Can we call that the Rangers strain of the virus do you think? Or would Orange Covid be a better name”
Why not just call it “Kenmure Street” incident as that happened first and likely kicked off any growth in spread of the Virus in Glasgow again or does that not suit your own MO of invented conspiracy theories and “othering” ? Try to get a grip of reality. Why are you not condemning the protest at Holyrood this weekend coming if you think stopping the spread of the Virus is important or do you thinking its only Yoons that can do that ?
—————–
Not very good with current affairs, are we Don? The planned march/gathering has been cancelled a few days ago.
No biscuit for you.
Stuart MacKay – It’s about Swinney, Stuart. Covid is nearly over and so there’s no need for him stick around for too much longer.
@Dorthy Devine, Daisy walker, BDTT –
Thanks for feedback.
There’s a lot to think about.
The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to even suggest a gathering of the kind we used to have. Something open-air, perhaps piggy-backing bigger events? Aye, that sounds more viable.
But it’s not going to be the same. We just can’t extend the ‘come all ye’ type of welcome. Too much bad blood now. And I certainly wouldn’t want to spend the entire night at the door, watching out for familiar faces who, sadly, would no longer be welcome.
@ Dorothy Devine 19 May, 2021 at 8:31 am
“Don’s ‘effing history’ is pretty skewed.”
Only as i’m a realist that can understand a bit of economics and the other things my own side tell me unlike many others here
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
There are also people here still think the last Indyref was rigged despite having that explained tp them many several times https://wingsoverscotland.com/our-man-on-the-scene/
Alf Baird 08:25
The anglicizing effects of the Protestant Reformation impeded the development of a synthesized or standard form of Scottis; as did the late arrival of printing. Most early books were printed in England where texts with Scottis orthography were often composited to suit English forms. English experienced the same with books printed in the Netherlands. The spelling «ghost» is an example of that.
The union with England stopped further development, dead.
Scots/Scottis needs a large dose of language planning. It needs the political will to undertake that. And it needs the financial resource and linguistic expertise. It is not a field for the amateur or part time enthusiast. However, it does need people to write in it, in any style or dialect.
There are models elsewhere, Hebrew, Finnish, Greek, Norwegian, Ukrainian, Arabic dialects and my own ancestral language Syriac. All offer insights as to psychological pitfalls for the unwary and the dangers of parochialism particularly concerning orthography, grammar and lexis.
Gaelic in the modern form is the spoken insular variety. There were other forms with markedly different pronunciation on the mainland. These are of more than just historical interest in language revival.
You omitted the Norse dialects of Orkney and Shetland which were related to Faroese and old Norwegian dialects although a form of Danish was used officially.
Latin and French eg Le Roman de Fergus, also figure and not forgetting the Scottish origins of the Welsh literary work known as Y Gododdin set in the Edinburgh area.
A rich and varied field for research and development.
Hope my «foreign» overview is of interest.
@ Captain Yossarian 19 May, 2021 at 9:26 am
“Stuart MacKay – It’s about Swinney, Stuart. Covid is nearly over and so there’s no need for him stick around for too much longer.”
I think its more about finding a high profile roll for Angus Robertson because we need more half German carpebaggers instead of sovereign Scots at the top of Scottish Politics don’t we ?
Another easily discredited lie from @Don says 18 May, 2021 at 11:04 pm
Scotland was not bankrupted by Darien and actually the opposite was true, the Scottish treasury was in rude health at the time of the Union.
Individual Scots were impacted by financial losses caused by Dariens failure the Country was not!
Englands treasury was however nearly empty following its military campaign in the previous 80 Years War and its involvement in the War of Spanish Succession which was being planned and then waged at the time.
England devised the plan to ruin Scotlands Nobles via Darien which included King William’s trade embargo via the English Navigation Act, which prevented any English colonies trading with, or even assisting, the Scots which contributed to the failure of the colony.
Sabotaging Darien also helped Williams attempt to appease Spain in advance of the War of Spanish Succession by preventing a Scottish colony in this historically Spanish colonial area, in he hoped the Spanish would fight against the French on England’s side.
Scottish Nobles were nearly bankrupted by Darien and then further financially threatened by the Alien Act of 1705 and therefore able to be bribed with English gold to sell out their nation via the Union.
@true scot 19 May, 2021 at 9:06 am
“What is lacking is the voice of business, the voice of economists. You will never convert anyone except the left behinds with this level of looking backwards and downwards.
Why don’t some of the long term supporters of independence on this site, who have been thinking about independence for many years – just start stating (loosely) quantifiable benefits of independence to the economy? There’s an absolute certainty that Scotland is being robbed in this union – lets start talking in solid terms about why that’s true?
Bear in mind 60% of trade (= the livelihoods of regular punters) relies on free movement of goods and people on this single land mass. But don’t forget that a lot of the tax take comes from that trade. You can’t just turn off the taps and still say the bath will fill up anyway – so the experts on these comments – tell the soft no’s how that bath will be filled ?”
I’m not so sure about that https://archive.is/PvcRf
Apologies @ Dan says at 9:14 am
I shall present myself to the authorities for immediate re-education and hope I don’t get the full 7 year sentence!
😉
@ Ian Brotherhood at 9.31
I too would welcome some sort of gathering. My list of “familiar faces who, sadly, would no longer be welcome” might not be the same as yours; I would be rather surprised if any of the ones I’m thinking of would have any interest in turning up to such an event! (Certainly you shouldn’t have to be a gatekeeper, though!)
Captain Yossarian, Would be nice but I don’t think covid is nearly over. The appointment of Swinney signals to me that Sturgeon is leaving. I suppose she could still hog the limelight with the daily briefings but I thought that would be Swinney’s job.
I seriously doubt she will be devoting her full or indeed any attention to the referendum. So what’s next for the leaderene?
The takedown of the the Scottish Parliament and Sturgeons faux government continues apace.
The Murrells have played a blinder on behalf of the British State.Absolute shitehawks.
Ottomanboi @ 9:34
“The anglicizing effects”
The effects of linguistic imperialism are far reaching and ultimately inhibit the development of a people and their nation.
A key issue here is that ‘a people’ lose their identity when they lose their language, which is the aim of cultural and linguistic imperialism. According to the 2011 census there were only 1.6 million Scots speakers left in Scotland, and the next census will highlight a further downward trend. Coincidentally, perhaps, there were 1.6 million Yes voters in 2014. It is also the case that peoples in self-determination conflict are linguistically (and hence culturally) divided.
The reality is Scots have two indigenous languages – Gaelic and Scots – and Scots have the right to learn either and use them. Yet the right of Scots to learn and use the Scots language is denied by UK and Scottish Governments. Even the European Council has highlighted this injustice, again: https://eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-policies/eurydice/sites/default/files/minority_languages_en.pdf
“Language is resoundingly more than a mere means of communication; it is the means by which humans can claim diversity and define their identity” (Shaw 2001).
The role of language in defining identity is vitally important in Scotland’s case because it is largely those who do not primarily identify as Scots that tend to vote against Scottish independence. It is our language which gives us our national consciousness and once a language disappears there can be no national consciousness and hence no desire for nationhood. Which brings us back to the objective of cultural and linguistic imperialism as key behavioural tools of colonialism.
Ottomanboi
Printing in the Netherlands
/
I wonder if you know that the reason why people used to choose the Netherlands to print and publish their books was to evade strict licensing laws.
Hobbes and Spinoza both published there.
Stuart MacKay: That would be fabulous news. Malaz has a woman’s wing too.
Licensing
/
Censorship
Well a huge trade deal is in the offing with Australia and New Zealand with regards to beef and lamb, though you wouldn’t think so as the BritNat media don’t want to scare the horses.
This deal will all but consign Scottish hill farming to the bin, and will also have a heavy impact on Scottish beef farmers, many I think will go bust, as will their counterparts in the rest of the UK.
The only thing holding its implementation right away is Boris Johnson, he can’t decide whether to charge a tariff for the imports or not, but its definitely coming.
First the Scottish fishing industry is badly impacted now the farming industry looks like it will be too. Remind me again which party the majority of these industries voted for in the 2014 indyref, and in 2016, and indeed this month, ah yes the Tories.
The Tories are hellbent on destroying the Scottish economy, and Sturgeon the Betrayer is allowing him to do so.
Well Boris Jonson just loves to breach International Law, this time by upping the number of nukes in the UK from 180 to a whopping 260, (and remember these nukes are based 30 miles from Scotland’s largest city) he’s breaking the (NPT) the Non Proliferation Treaty.
Johnson also plans to send more UK troops abroad, and I doubt very much it will be just for peacekeeping missions though that will be the official narrative spewed out by the BritNat media.
Sturgeon the betrayer is by not holding an indyref keeping us tied into this.
True Scot,
I’m not sure why you are asking for an economic forecast of an independent Scotland as it is immaterial.
The economy is not linked to the constitution of a country. This is also what Unionists believe for pretty much every single country except Scotland.
Ask them “should Poland be an independent country?” and they will look at you with incredulity for asking such a thing.
Should France be an independent country?
Should Finland be an independent?
The answer will be Yes, of course.
Not once will anybody ask to see the balance of trade, the national debt or ask what currency they are using before deciding.
They won’t ask because it does not fucking matter.
Another country will not and cannot prioritise Scotland’s needs.
Independence is a constitutional matter not a financial matter.
It matters who is making the financial decisions in a country.
It matters who decides policies.
It matters that different countries need different policies.
It matters that you enact policies that are beneficial to your country.
It matters that you don’t enact policies that are detrimental to your country.
Decisions matter and it matters who make those decisions.
It matters that you don’t let another country determine your future.
Should Scotland be an independent country?
Of course it fucking should.
So the High court in England has told the Tory government that it can keep secret the amount of taxpayers cash it wasted on unusable PPE supplied by PestFix, Clandeboy and Ayanda, and Sturgeon the Betrayer says if Johnson says no to an S30 she’ll take it all the way through the courts. Who f*ck is she trying to kid.
I myself have a small rubber boat I push about in the bath, so I was thinking of asking for millions from the UK government to start a ferry company….anyone got Chris Graylings number?
Luigi says:
19 May, 2021 at 9:06 am
Nicola Sturgeon is probably wishing the AUOB marchers would just go away. All the more reason to keep em going. 🙂
Reply
Do you think that is why ‘The Royal Mile’ will be closed for the next 7 months?
Closed to traffic from the High Street to the Parliament.
Council saying residents can call for free taxis just like MSPs do all year round.
Will non residents wanting to come to shop/dine/drink in the area be eligible for the free taxis?
Just wondering where the taxis are going to pick up/drop off residents?
How will businesses get their deliveries?
What about the tour buses?
Could be a lot of problems for the newly elected Edinburgh Central MSP to sort out. 🙂
Angus Robertson’s office might to alternative place to have a protest. Could be a mass protest about everything anyone is unhappy about.
Both votes SNP vs
Both votes yes
Both votes SNP allowed 23 additional unionists
to gain seats on the list
If the SNP support backed
Both votes yes, this would have made the Alba Party
the second largest party with 30 seats, a pro-indy
supermajority of 30
AlbaParty.org/join
Republicofscotland says:
Sturgeon the Betrayer says if Johnson says no to an S30 she’ll take it all the way through the courts. Who the f*ck is she trying to kid.
Reply
Did she/her not recently take one thing almost all the way through the courts and ended up losing & costing the taxpayer £500K and another thing that cost goodness knows how much that she ended up losing but keeps insisting that she won?
Will the SNP pay the costs of taking it all the way through the courts? Will WGD organise a crowd funder for her?
https://tinyurl.com/5ye5s25z
What about a different type of protest?
Don.
And if you are able to research yourself don, if you background check half the names who are actually in the treaty of the union, you will find a few Scottish names as original, the rest were those whom given Scottish land and castle as a reward by England for fighting in previous wars for them.
Such as 1066, a lot of the names were french /Normandy or English in origin.
The never sold their country, the Scots never voted to join the treaty, the Scots are not actually in the treaty or under any obligation to the treaty of the union,
Your sole is tint.
Luigi. 9.05
Luigi, I never once mentioned Nicola Sturgeon would turn up at any rally.
What is it with some contributors twisting words to suit their own tiny agenda.
I was meaning she would hijack the message any Indy Rally would send out.
And I personally will not give up any of my time to further the cause of Sturgeonism.
She will appear on our screens telling the people of Scotland she can’t do a thing regards a Referendum, all because of a big bad man in Westminster stopped her.
How do I know this? Because it’s what she has been doing since she moved into Bute House.
Let’s see a date for the Referendum wrote down in black and white first.
Then we really do have something to march for.
And not some vanity project for the Murrells.
Bartley. ” A novel virus” Give it up man. It was downgraded to no more serious than a flu virus in March/April 2020 before the lockdown so give over with 77th propaganda. We’ve heard that shit before. Imagine the brass to keep spraffing that shit.
I went into a pub in Greenock on Monday, place was nearly empty, I had my camera with me as I was out and about that day, I asked a guy from gourock who I was chatting with would he mind if I took a photy of him, no go ahead he said, so I took one photo of him, he was drinking soft drinks as he said he had a motorbike and he was driving back to Gourock on it.
I moved to another part of the pub because I wanted to take a photo of that part, I spotted a couple sitting near the part I wished to take a photo of, I asked the guy do you mind me taking a photo of you both, no not at all he said, so I took the photo, but his partner said, I don’t want my photo taken, no argument happened concerning this, but a wee plonker from the staff asked me to leave because I took a photo, I deleted the photo but I still had to leave as this in her little mind was a grave offence that maybe I should have been hung drawn and quartered for, I was leaving anyway as I was going for my bus home.
This silly little woman is employed by someone who relies on people like me to make a living, and this silly female is asking me to leave for taken a photo that I was given permission to take buy the guy in the photo
That is one bar I will never go into again while the owner employs a fool like her.
Been about 2 years since I entered any bar, well before the pandemic restrictions where put in place, and this kind of nonesense was one of the reasons why, pubs where closing down at the rate of two a week because of lack of custom, any bar owner reading this that went bust now knows what part of the reason was, you are employing idiots that ask customers to leave for no good reason, your paying them, and they take it upon themselves to ask your livlihood to leave, I spent about a fiver in that bar, but I will not be spending any more time of money in that bar,
Its name is the same as the thing you put on the bottom of a horses leg and its on Kilblain Street in Greenock, next to the bus stance………………. Keep well clear is my advice, and don’t dare take a photo lol
excuse my gramma, me eyesite and me typing skills are getting worse and worser by the day, aw ra best
Calton Jock. Get rid of your cookies then I can read your stuff.
What are AUOB going to do on Saturday if they find some anti lockdown protesters outside Holyrood? Would you join us? Or will your Stockholm Syndrom kick in?
The asshole Sturgeon is advancing the UNs Green Agenda. The High Street in Edinburgh is being pedestrianised So we go back to the 19th century. Sheer fucking ideological insanity. I’d rather drive my own car than use inferior public transport.This city this country is utterly fucked by dick heads in council who are taking orders from “Common Purpose”. We are all going to regret bitterly voting for any of the UNs useful idiots in Holyrood
Republicofscotland
Sheep farming is already on the edge of the precipice and a trade deal with NZ will send it over. The Kiwis bit the bullet over farm subsidies a while ago and there’s simply no chance that Scottish farmers can adjust in time after the body blow that Brexit delivered.
I skimmed through some of the provisions on the Internal Market Bill and there does not seem to be any possibility for local support of farmers. So for example the government does not seem able to source food in Scotland for school meals as that would seem to run afoul of the extensive non-discrimination clauses.
Only some form of autonomy would put us in a position to save farming. The quality is there but marketing and branding as distinctively Scottish would appear to be a good way of saving many, but probably not all, producers.
Ironic that the first to say yes to Brexit and No to independence are the first to be sacrificed.
I see Pixywine is back with his usual illiterate foul mouthed ranting, and his anti vaccination, science denying rubbish.
@Fireproofjim 19 May, 2021 at 12:07 pm
“I see Pixywine is back with his usual illiterate foul mouthed ranting, and his anti vaccination, science denying rubbish.”
Though well camouflaged among so many who are equally terminally confused.
@Stuart MacKay 19 May, 2021 at 11:51 am
“Sheep farming is already on the edge of the precipice and a trade deal with NZ will send it over. The Kiwis bit the bullet over farm subsidies a while ago and there’s simply no chance that Scottish farmers can adjust in time after the body blow that Brexit delivered.
Ironic that the first to say yes to Brexit and No to independence are the first to be sacrificed.”
Come on Stuart i though you were better informed that that surely, or are you just playing to the audience ? When is the movement going to become realistic and accept Indy is not going to come without some serious pain ?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/
@Pixywine 19 May, 2021 at 11:29 am
“Bartley. ” A novel virus” Give it up man. It was downgraded to no more serious than a flu virus in March/April 2020 before the lockdown so give over with 77th propaganda. We’ve heard that shit before. Imagine the brass to keep spraffing that shit”
Your mental you are so why keep “spraffing” your shit.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30577-4/fulltext
@Breastplate 19 May, 2021 at 10:38 am
“I’m not sure why you are asking for an economic forecast of an independent Scotland as it is immaterial.
The economy is not linked to the constitution of a country. This is also what Unionists believe for pretty much every single country except Scotland”
Real Economists with more knowledge that a random like yourself say differently, do you think I should beleive you or them ?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/ .
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
Dave Somerville says:
19 May, 2021 at 11:21 am
Fair point Dave, but I just don’t accept your argument that Sturgeon will attempt to “hijack” any future indy march. Stay away? Yes; Try to ignore? Absolutely. But “try to hijack”? Come on – that’s stretching it quite a bit beyond credibility IMO. How on earth could she hijack it – stick her feet in the ground and say “not ye”? Aye right that’ll go down well lol.
If you want to boycott any future indy march, that’s entirely your choice. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. IMO, we need to keep marching in spite of Sturgeon – believe me the last thing she probably wants is big indy marches making a return. We march for Scotland not Sturgeon. Boycott if you wish, but don’t expect others to swallow it.
Don
You keep referring to that as if it was some form of divine, infallible statement. I’ll let you into a secret, it’s a Ph.D. student’s blog post.
I wonder if there are any subtle clues to the petrol bombing of Peter Lawell’s house last night.
Something like a Union Flag perhaps and a tape of the Sash.
These disgusting knuckledraggers are a dangerous blight on the West of Scotland with their perverted sense of entitlement for their useless lives.
It’s time that Rangers took some responsibility for the actions of these louts.
I am not a Celtic fan (Aberdeen for my sins) but I fear what these dangerous fools are capable of in the event of independence, brainwashed as they are by their Orange godfathers.
Any bets as to the likely shape of Robertson’s reward for services rendered? (And I’m not talking about those to Austria – he got his bauble from them back in 2016).
Republicofscotland says: “Sturgeon the Betrayer says if Johnson says no to an S30 she’ll take it all the way through the courts.”
See right there, that’s a revelation in itself. As someone recently pointed out on here or Twitter: given the length of time it takes most Court cases to run the full procedure why isn’t she asking for the S30 right now?
She knows UKGov will just laugh at her *again* as they say no. Ask now, they refuse, start legal proceedings, simple! She’s a procrastinating proven liar with no intentions of delivering indy, that’s why.
And as a lot of countries have already proven, Covid is no excuse. Our elections have also just proved that.
Fireproofjim
Jumping to conclusions perhaps re the Lawwell fire-bombing. Wee Peter is not exactly flavour of the month with a section of the Celtic Family.
That family has its own range of nutters, so, perhaps premature to point the finger at the opposition. Best leave it to the authorities to try to sort-out.
Idea for Indy.
R&D could benefit by the creation of a carefully overseen Scottish patent and bursary office, building on the historical narrative of Scottish innovation: the object of which would be to unburden the would-be innovator from soul-destroying legal processes and financial pressures.
Get your bureaucratic abusing hands off me!
https://thecritic.co.uk/jabs-for-the-boys/
I think the Rev will be really pleased down in Bath.One of his favourite SNP politicians,Shirley-Anne Sommerville has caught Nicola’s attention as a rising talent.
Don,
I’m sorry if this is confusing for you but economists are no experts when it comes to a country’s constitution. In fact to use your words they become a mere “random”.
It is no surprise that Unionists paint the bleakest picture they can regarding independence because it is not new.
This particular argument is a quarter of a millennium;
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1776-1785/charles-inglis-the-true-interest-of-america-impartially-stated-1776.php
Change the record please, you and your arguments are beyond tedious.
«Despite his lack of either scientific qualifications or an electoral mandate, Bill Gates regularly presses the need for mass global vaccination with products made by the companies he owns, using platforms given to him by the media outlets he funds»
https://off-guardian.org/2021/05/18/how-bill-gates-big-pharma-used-children-as-guinea-pigs-and-got-away-with-it/
«The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have an incredible record of bringing about substantial change in the world’s poorest countries, empowering them to improve their life chances in a range of ways, from improving healthcare and combating infectious diseases to increasing access to education»
Nicola Sturgeon.
https://www.insider.co.uk/news/bill-gates-praises-scottish-health-11922026
Cherrybank – She has a talent for returning all problems back to sender. Nothing sticks to her. Swinney was exactly the same.
Cherrybank – I’ve just hear she’s the new Education Minister…words fail me.
We will no doubt see, in the Independent Scotland which is coming, the end of an Honours System which passes-out various degrees of Orders of the British Empire. However, I suspect, there will still be an Honour System, which recognises excellence in various fields.
I do hope, however, this system does away with recognition of time-servers and rule-followers in government service. I hope, in an Independent Scotland, Buggins’ Turn for a gong will be a thing of the past.
I also hope, there is recognition for Heroes of the Independence Campaign, and that Gareth Wardell, “Grouse Beater” is among the first recipients.
I know Gareth has terminal cancer and may well not live to see INdependence, but, some of his recent postings have been above his blog’s long-established level of excellence.
His part in the battle will hopefully be recognised, although probably not, if the SNP has anything to do with it. He is one of several true heroes of the fight, who has been dumped on from a great height, by the so-called Party of Independence. In reality – the Party of Devolution.
Stuart MacKay @11.51pm.
Stuart.
Its no secret that Australia has ruined its beef exports market, with China, China purchased the majority of beef from Australia’s super ranches.
However Australia is the tip of the USA’s Five Eyes spear, and the country’s government has been goading China for a while now on behalf of the USA, and China finally retaliated by sanctioning Australian beef.
So a new market must be found, I have read that Australia is receiving funding from the USA to continue its actions against China.
So Robertson gets “constitution, external affairs and culture secretary”. Who’d have thought an ex-BBC journo of the diplomatic and foreign affairs variety would be so qualified? Surely a bastion of the British Establishment with those credentials. Oh no, wait…
Ruby @10.51am.
Yes Ruby, I know what you are referring to, and although Joanna Cherry did win a case in the English courts, its a completely different matter that the courts would actively grant the S30 and potentially see the UK break up, seriously damaging England’s economy, and possibly damaged Westminster’s pride, due to the removal of Trident and the likely loss of the seat permanent on UNSC which would be a huge blow to Johnsons and Whitehall’s ego.
UNSC seats are permanent, for the permanent members, China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States. but there is a a way to remove a permanent member, also all the permanent members possess nuclear weapons, not a prerequisite I think, but I’m not sure.
Stoker @12.32pm.
Yes as we are all aware that Sturgeon the Betrayer has no real intentions of holding an indyref, even if the way was clear. I think Sturgeon is quite happy to govern and blame the Tories for not being able to move further down the indy road.
However, she undermines her own position simply by the fact that she hasn’t prepared the road to an indyref, in areas such as currency, a central bank, government bodies we would require and clear info on a border with the rest of the UK, she done no preparations for any of this which needs to be done well in advance in my opinion.
@RepublicofScotland
There is no chance that any Govt.of an Independent Kingdom of Scotland would start off a relationship with a larger neighbour and biggest export market by telling the Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland (KENI), to get their nukes out of Scotland on week 1.
HMNB Clyde and associated facilities would no doubt become a Sovereign Base Area for KENI, perhaps on a 20/30 year lease or similar – Scotland’s answer to Gitmo.
Republicofscotland
Well then it’s game over for the farmers because there’s nothing the English Establishment love more than meddling in other countries affairs and strutting around like they’re shoulder to shoulder with the big boys on the stage. If all those Tories in Perth and Aberdeen are the price I’m sure they’ll find a way of getting over it, if they even notice at all.
Back to what Don was wittering on about over the instant and permanent contraction of the economy on independence. Absolute nonsense. It might be an uphill struggle but there’s a market in Europe for Scottish beef, with or without, tariffs with some clever marketing – just the same way NZ markets their lamb .(I happily pay the premium for it here in Portugal as it’s way better than the local stuff). Just one tiny example where standing on our on two feet generates, not destroys, value. Who knows maybe there’s an instant 10% premium on not being English.
Pixywine
Away and lie in your pish.
The more pedestrianisation the better – fcuck off somewhere else in your clown car.
“HMNB Clyde and associated facilities would no doubt become a Sovereign Base Area for KENI, perhaps on a 20/30 year lease or similar – Scotland’s answer to Gitmo.”
Robert Knight.
Robert, I’m afraid that’s not likely for Faslane/Coulport is where the Scottish navy will be based, so I’m afraid the nukes will have to go, the only thing in dispute would be the timescale of their removal.
A short lease could be negotiated, I hope at considerable cost to Westminster that would help fund the building of our own ships/crafts, whilst Westminster fits out a suitable port for its nuclear subs.
Of course looking at the bigger picture, the Great Satan (USA) will do everything in its considerable power to help Westminster thwart our independence in order to keep the nukes in Scotland, which are thirty miles from our largest city, of which the nukes pass through on trucks at all times of the day and night.
Could you ever envisage Westminster allowing these nukes to pass through London on trucks while the Queen slept.
Stuart MacKay @2.05pm.
I suppose there is the possibility of a short term contraction, but surely that would be balanced out by our export market, we’d also have control of immigration which would allow our tax based to grow as well. England has conveniently kept our population small and manageable whilst stripping our assets, that would stop as well.
We have a huge surplus of energy that the world requires including England who already syphons off our excess electricity to keep the lights on. Joining EFTA would allows us access to EU market and the UK market, so although there are bumps on the road along the way, such as amassing enough of a reserve currency (which would be less than a larger country) and a lender of last resort if needed, I see no reason why an independent Scotland wouldn’t start off in a reasonably healthy state.
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1394914385278251010
James Kelly of Scot goes Pop fame, blogged that’ if the SNP came back in 2026 asking for another Independence mandate, we can assume we have been had’!
Really?? wait until 2026 to find out if the SNP are a bunch of lazy, deceitful bestards?
The less cognitively challenged, or utterly naïve, Independence supporters worked that out years ago!
So Keith Brown is the new Justice secretary, with plans to reform the Scottish justice system, and on the same day (RCS) Rape Crisis Scotland is screaming out for the not proven verdict to be abolished, and in Alex Salmond’s case, I’d imagine replaced with guilty.
I see that one of the columnists in the National newspaper in recent day, of who will remain nameless said that Sturgeon on hearing the outcome of Alex Salmond and the Alba party’s vote portion, screamed in delight that they’re dead (Alba party and Salmond).
As for WGD ‘Gimme a quid’ Kavannagh…. Imagine shaking a can for your personal bank account from true Independence supporters only for those same independence supporters to be sneered at and blocked because they don’t like the lies of his beloved leader!
What a sad place the Nicola cult have led the Indy cause!
seems like if your selfish and greedy, there is money to be made in exploiting the goodwill of independence supporters. SNP careerists are no exception!
University tutor who schooled Nicola Sturgeon feels he did not do enough to make her understand the essence of democracy.
Link here: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-pQw
Pixywine, I am not a man. Please take your stupid conspiracy theories and shove them up your arse. It’s hardly my fault that you are incapable of understanding what you read.
The realty of the treaty of union.
A good few Scottish rich and titled men sold to a good few rich and titled English men a pup in 1707.
The Scots men wanted more money, so they came up with idea to sell a country to England’s rich men.
the fact the country did not solely belong to them, might be overlooked if the titled English gentlemen were blinded by greed, it would be the biggest scam in history if they could pull it of,
So they hummed and haggled for a while, for it to seem genuine.
And of corse the titled English gentlemen never checked the finer details in the contract agreement, so busy was their thoughts and expectations in the financial end gain.
The English titled gentlemen paid the asking price asked for by the titled Scottish gentlemen.
The fact was, that the sovereign population and people of scotland were the true owners of the land known as Scotland, just as England belonged to the English people .
That the titled Scots gentlemen had no bill of sale what so ever from the Scots people to prove they had ever bought Scotland in the first place was neither here or there,
Still they had pulled it of, it was like selling a London Bridge to Americans, the biggest con ever committed, the best crime thought of going unseen, pretending you own something, while not holding an original bill of sale for any of it, no questions asked.
Now the titled English gentlemen thought they had bought a whole country and kingdom for less than a kings ransom. Not only that, they thought the sale included the people in Scotland as well,
Over the following years they began to realise that the sale was not as watertight as they had first believed,
The sovereign Scottish people were not in the sale, the people of Scotland had escaped the sale, not one name was mentioned in the sale,
But by far the emotion that caused them the most distress was the land belonged to a sovereign nation. A free nation at that,
What to do, how to save face,
BLUSTER. If the titled English gentlemen had been scammed and conned into parting with their money, the only avenue was to carry on pretending they had bought a country from the Scots, keeping it quite that it was actually just a few Scots, that never owned or had a bill of sale that dammed country,
Nope they would just have to pretend. And they have kept up the pretence for 300 years over the Scottish sovereign people.
That has to be the second biggest con in history.
Don @ 12:24 pm
“The economy is not linked to the constitution of a country”
The main aim of colonialism to to plunder and exploit other countries which by implication leaves them under-developed and impoverished. In this sense the resources of a colonised country are not used to enable its own development or the development of its people. This is why the UN describes colonialism as ‘a scourge’ and calls for its ending.
Republic- I suspect Sturgeon’s ‘afternoon delight’ will be exposed eventually. The puppet enquiry she blustered her way through. Will not be the end of the matter.
I think more than ever Salmond will have his justice.
@Don…
You want evidence of Scotland’s economic injury through the Union?
Read the McCrone Report. Easy read, won’t take you long, just 20 pages of it. Then look at Scotland’s wealth, compare it to Norway’s wealth, then join the dots, and hey presto, a graphic picture emerges.
It’s essentially the difference between competent long term husbandry of a valuable resource in Norway’s case, and short sighted plundering exploitation in Scotland’s case… though not even by Scotland, but A. N. Other…
James Che. @ 3:46 pm
“The realty of the treaty of union.That has to be the second biggest con in history.”
You are right, a political con trick of the highest order. The Treaty was/is colonialism disguised as a union, and independence is therefore decolonisation.
Luigi 12.24pm
Last time I’m explaining this.
Any Indy Rally held in Edinburgh, you can bet Sturgeon will attach herself onto it.
Not physically, but through the media.
She will piggyback onto the message the true Indy supporters are trying to send to the people of Scotland.
She’ll be on the Marr show like a shot, portraying herself as the warrior of the Indy Movement who can’t go any further until that bad English government gives her this Section 30 order.
But she will tell her gullable Flock that she will never give up the fight for Independence.
Rinse and Repeat for five years, Job done!
I will not contribute to her con anymore.
Get a date wrote down on a legal document stating when the next Indy referendum will be held, then I will consider taking part in any future Rallies.
But not until then.
I think if Sturgeon doesn’t attend then she isn’t quoted – simple as that.
So Sturgeon the Betrayer was sworn in as FM today at Edinburgh’s Court of Session, the physically-distanced ceremony, was before Lord President Lord Carloway, Lord Justice Clerk Lady Dorrian, and Lord Menzie.
No doubt Sturgeon the Betrayer, aimed a nod and a wink towards the direction of Lady Dorrian.
Dave Somerville says:
19 May, 2021 at 4:10 pm
Fair enough Dave. We will have to agree to disagree. 🙂
What is disconcerting is the amount of yoonies still visiting the site , you can all go back to barracks now lads sturgeon is back in command and as your senior officers will be well aware the onion has nothing to fear from her as she is one of the best assets the onion has ever owned
Still I suppose the squaddies have to be kept employed and one never knows when sense will prevail and sturgeon and her clown troupe will be outed as assets of the onion
Brian Doonthetoon
Thanks for the link the other day, I can only post on WiFi not mobile data, hence the delayed reply, cheers.
Ruby
Loved yer wee snippet aboot the Craiks of which I’m one & rather well known for having plenty to say too. Cheers
Alf Baird,
It also means that the con was scots and Scotland were captured, but only if the con is to believed.
The titled English gentlemen were swindled, duped, conned, tricked, fooled and fraudulently scammed into buying a country and people that were not for sale in 1707, except by a group of Scottish gentlemen looking to make a quick buck.
It also means that the only persons involved on that contractual agreement going by the name of “The Treaty of the Union” was a private Limited Company.
If it was a Public Limited Company however I am sure all of us Scots would have been informed by now, and our public shares from the Company would be lining our pockets.
However they are legal distinct entities. With their own assets, profits, and liabilities. And tax liabilities
.
I will not go any further into how the treaty of the union is registered in the way of companies, but it is a thought that has crossed my mind recently that Westminster’s British government is in receipt of profits from the treaty of the union as an entity, and has been for 300 years.
@twathater
You need to give the 77th Pongos some credit.
It took most of us a while to suss Sturgeon, given all the screening and misdirection we’ve had over the past 6+ years.
If it wasn’t for the Rev’s forensic work, some of us might yet need to be convinced. However, there are plenty in the Yes movement outside WoS who still live under the misconception that she’s pro-Indy.
There’s still a job to be done by the 77th in protecting Robertson – who as we know will be squeezing into the Dear Leader’s size 4 stilettos at some point down the line. He also needs to be ‘seen’ to be pro-Indy. If not, ALBA, ISP etc. will become a problem for the pro-Union/SNP campaigns.
“Now, we can’t be having that, can we Darling? No Sah! Mehhhhh…”
Alf Baird says:
“The Neolithic peoples in Scotland predate ‘Celts’ by a considerable length as did the Pictish tribes who were around pre and during the Roman period mostly along the east coast.”
Dear Alf,
You are quite correct and I don’t disagree. However my point was not that the Celts are the only indigenous people of these isles, or that they were not preceded by other peoples and cultures, but that, by comparison, the Anglo-Saxons are invaders to these isles and, as the Celtic annals attest, their history here has been one of aggression towards the indigenous people which continues right up to the present day with the cultural and economic suppression of Scots and Scotland under the Treaty of Union.
A lot of posters say WGD should be ignored but I found the links posted on the following interesting. Lord Advocate described as ‘a pimp for the government’ ‘Scotland as a banana republic.’ this was in 2012.
“An anti-SNP and anti-Sturgeon blog elsewhere (no, not that one) publishing a letter by Alistair Bonnington who apparently was a university tutor to Sturgeon, but here’s who this guy is:
https://newsnet.scot/archive/bonnington-displayed-political-agenda-in-attacks-on-scottish-government-claims-legal-academic/
or indeed by LPW
http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.com/2012/08/misleading-anti-nationalist-invective.html
“
The same poster made the post about Alistair Bonnington made the following post on a WGD article entitled ‘The entitlement of British nationalism’ which seemed to be all about Rangers fans.
“I feel bound to quote the author on this article:
“This is your reminder that the purpose of this blog is to promote Scottish independence. If the comment you want to make will not assist with that goal then don’t post it.“
Shirley-Anne Somerville has been given the Education Job , didn’t the Rev have something on Her and it wasn’t very complementary IIRC
Humza Useless moved to Health , God Help Us. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57169123?fbclid=IwAR2hgDqR1bX0onzf8oW2l4YQ7sI_wlSTBhHssEaA5-6yAw1usGii-dyVJjY
Re discussion about ancestry and the make-up of peoples across the UK, it is work looking at this DNA study completed in 2105, the most extensive there has been I think.
A couple of headlines from it is that Orkney has the most distinct DNA compared to anywhere in the UK (Norse in make up obviously) but also that in terms of hierarchical grouping: ‘the north of England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland collectively separate from southern England. Then, at the next level, Cornwall forms a separate cluster quite distinct from Devon, followed by Scotland and Northern Ireland separating from northern England . . . While there is no clear ‘Celtic Fringe’, as is so often assumed, there is evidence of ancient British DNA in common with other British populations, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland, but less in Cornwall, or Devon, in contrast to what might have been expected’.
The other thing that was shown to be true is the by and large, the Anglo-Saxons did not simply replace, drive out the people here before them, but interbred with them.
I find the survey fascinating and the researchers describe themselves as being ‘astonished to obtain 17 clusters of individuals based solely on similarities in their DNA that matched remarkably well their geographical locations’.
https://peopleofthebritishisles.web.ox.ac.uk/population-genetics
I do think this notion raised above that the Anglo-Saxons can still be thought of as invaders / colonisers compared the ‘Celts’ (not at all a uniform group anyway), pretty silly given the Anglo-Saxons began to arrive c.450AD and mixed and interbred with the natives of the time.
The Picts just disappeared from history at some point. I wonder if the Gaels interbred with them.
Most of my ancestery is Irish 3/4 and Scots the rest. Hopefully no Anglo Saxon in my DNA. I don’t have a single relative in England. As far as I know I never did.
Don- Somerville is incredibly stupid. Education is the worst post she could have got. Sturgeon is promoting pals, its nepotism on steroids.
I give her a year.
@Breeks 19 May, 2021 at 4:03 pm
Well done for demonstrating how exceptionally clueless you are.
“Read the McCrone Report. Easy read, won’t take you long, just 20 pages of it. Then look at Scotland’s wealth, compare it to Norway’s wealth, then join the dots.
You mean this McCrone ? Do stick with it till the end as who knows you might actually learn something worthwhile that might actually stick in your head. .
https://bit.ly/2S2BItX
Norway and Scotland are completely different , Norway produced about 4 times as much Oil as Scotland and does it as half the production cost to recover it. Can you work out for yourself the difference that makes or do you need that explained as well ? https://archive.is/3mrR0
Scotlands Wealth is explained here by the Scottish Parliaments retained advisors from Clydebank Universtity Economics Office I’m sure they understand Scotlands wealth far better than you no matter how much you like to think otherwise ? https://archive.is/cGNRy
the people of the isles genetic studies –
“The most striking observation is the extraordinary correspondence between the genetic clusters and geographical location.”
– scots aren’t anglo, even northumbria and cumbria aren’t very anglo; they should be part of our territory
northumbria held parts of lothian for about 5 minutes, then you get the anglo trash claiming scots are really english
– some of the english get all upset about the norman invasion, and its consequences; tolkien was one. Some of the (dumber) english claim to be vikings, probably for the shield maidens.
mchardy’s new history of the picts claims the picts are still here in us; the scots and pict leadership interbred, but the picts had no written culture, which is how they “disappeared”
Confused. So I might be a Pict after all. Always thought I was special!!
Twathater 5.36
On behalf of the 77th command, I would like to point out the we do not have “squaddies” in our ranks.
The regiment is made up of good sorts from the upper middle classes. Privately schooled, oxbridge types with the minds and the wit to achieve goals without ever being seen to take credit.
Tbh, we are stood down for the time being (and have been for over a year now). Our deep cover operative (let’s call him Mr Fish) was activated to complete our plans. Mission accomplished for now. We are not expecting to rejoin the fray for another four years so plenty of time to catch-up on other important matters. This usually means baiting the French which is always good fun.
twathater,
They’re still here because there’s a better class of commenter to troll. If they head back to barracks they might get reassigned to The National or Bella Caledonia. Yes, they’re irritating at times but I would wish that assignment on anyone.
replace “would” with “wouldn’t”, doh!!!
I see that Fiona Robertson has managed to get the Equalities Convener post again on the Snp NEC even though the membership rejected her last November .
Luigi. 5.23pm
Keezzzzz!!!!
@ Leggy Peggy
Spear and Robertson were runners-up last year. As soon as there was a vacancy, they will automatically have filled it.
@ Big Jock at 7.40
Many are chosen, few are Pict.
(from a t-shirt purchased 20 years ago for a relative, so I can’t claim the credit)
Daisy Walker. The lockdowns are political.
It’s funny how all these independent nations the English colonised around the world, including us, have then got to beg the self same Bastards for the permission to hold an Independence Referendum to become an independent nation.
Confused?
Nicola will explain all, one day.
Don says:
19 May, 2021 at 7:33 pm
Norway and Scotland are completely different , Norway produced about 4 times as much Oil as Scotland and does it as half the production cost to recover it.
Oh aye, right enough, we’re “different”, aren’t we? Scotland’s the only country on the planet who discovered an oil bonanza and got poorer. Scotland has the “wrong” kind of oil doesn’t it? We’ve heard all the shite before. It’s too volatile, it’s running out, decommissioning the rigs will bankrupt us… yeah, yeah, yeah. ZZzzzzz…
The real difference is Norway is a sovereign nation investing in it’s population and future generations. It developed Statoil, a state owned oil company and invested in it’s own support industries which are thriving to this day and look after it’s population for generations to come. Scotland is totally different, because Scotland has it’s resources plundered by a parasitic “partner” which takes the maximum out for the minimum in, lies repeatedly about the value of Scotland’s resources, and is too greedy and busy plundering Scotland’s wealth to create an oil fund for the benefit of future generations of Scots.
I don’t know where you get the idea that Norway has produced four times as much oil as Scotland, that’s shite, – probably some BritNat think tank made it up. That’s usually where the bullshit comes from, before it’s trumpeted on BritNat media to indoctrinate the unwary.
And no, what Gavin McCrone said in the ‘70’s is much more relevant than what Gavin McCrone said before Scotland’s Referendum, because in the 1970’s his Report was meant to be top secret, so he could be candid and tell the truth. In 2013 he was trying to shut the stable door after the horse had bolted, and diffuse his own report to undermine Scottish Independence. He also lied through his teeth about his report not being secret, and we know that because of the covering letter attached to the Report and signed by him, which declared the information inside the report was so sensitive that it had to be kept secret and it’s circulation tightly controlled.
But keep trying Don. You never know, maybe you’ll manage to fool somebody with your BritNat Bullshit. Maybe try over on WGD.. they’re dumb enough to believe in all kinds of fairy stories.
America was the exception to the Referendum rule, they just kicked the bastards out.
Oh aye Don, a last wee tip for you.
If you hear anything about Scotland and Scottish Independence on the BBC, it’s a fairly safe bet it’s a load of shite. The clue is that it’s on the BBC, the state owned propaganda channel.
Since you’re a fan of YouTube, away and search for the “London Calling” video about the BBC bias during the 2014 IndyRef. Maybe you’ll learn something, although you’re so full of hate and vinegar, you probably won’t.
Don. Go fuck your Mother you arsehole.
Don,
Let me get your argument for the Union correct.
Scotland should stay in the Union because it doesn’t earn enough money to be independent.
Presumably then, that if Scotland can generate enough money you would stand behind independence.
Obviously no surplus is needed for self determination as the UK has a massive national debt and getting bigger.
At what point do you believe the UK should be stripped of its independence?
Or you could save us all your ramblings, tell the truth, admit you’re a hypocrite and that you believe under no circumstances Scotland should ever be independent.
From Chris McEleny on twitter ,
“ Who would’ve guessed that the Daily Mail @Mike_Blackley was the most visited website by Scottish Government staff….Wings over Scotland also the most visited independence supporting site. “
https://twitter.com/ChrisMcEleny/status/1395028774991929347?s=20
Link to Scottish Government FOI ,
“ Breakdown of websites accessed by Scottish Government staff: FOI release “
https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100175753/
Well I guess the new Cabinet Secretary for Health & Social Care is going to have his work cut out getting to grips with these new fangled health and care issues.
https://twitter.com/Rab_Dickson1/status/1395032443946782726
Id just like to point out something when it comes to the argument – ‘there are no native peoples on these islands’ (or something similar).
If that’s the case then there are almost no native peoples pretty much anywhere, because so few would pass that test. I disagree with it but lets run with that:
Peoples, cultures and civilisations have their homelands. Over time the genetic mixture of those peoples change slowly and mix with other neighbouring peoples.
There are times when this happens over the course of just a few decades and pretty much every time this is not considered integration, or adaptation. It is called invasion.
Ultimately the forced introduction of alien cultures of peoples of a different ethnic heritage, financed by NGO’s and helped along by the political class while arguments against are frowned upon and now becoming outlawed cannot be seen as anything else.
There is nothing natural about the numbers being brought to Scotland (and anywhere else in Europe). There is nothing helpful about it to ordinary Scots. Ultimately it will, and is intended to, create a perpetually divided society that can never find political cohesion.
If you doubt that claim then I ask you – why is it always the same people who shout BLM (and the anti-European hatred that stems from that marxist terrorist organisation) that want Africans to come here in vast numbers? If native Europeans are so evil to black people and must be punished what is the game in trying to get as many of them here as possible?
Like the trans folk these people are being used. The groups advocating for them are tools of the financial elite who want the nation state to die.
Unfortunately too many Scots are too busy biting their nails and trying to appease political players who will accuse them of bigotry no matter what they do.
The solution is to recognise the forces behind this – the groups and characters around the IMF, WEF and other globalist institutions and get their tentacles out of our nations. African and Muslim nations in particular who have been most heavily abused by these financial gangsters.
A global movement for nationalism and the rights of the peoples of the world to run their countries for the benefit of their own people as a priority and not be just the indebted vassals of global international corporations and banks.
I just wanted to add an addition to my previous comment:
Some years ago on this site i was making comment saying – it does not matter how much you appease the fanatics, how much ground you give, they will always want more. Arguments may initially make sense and be justified but eventually the continual pushing will take their demands to never before imagined levels – to the point of insanity that hurts people.
This is exactly what happened with the transgender issue. It will happen with everything else you give ground to these people on.
Im not a sage, or a fortune teller. I just know what has gone before and I have read what has been planned. This is how populations have been decimated in the past and unimaginable horrors and bloodshed unleashed on innocents.
The first few times it was class warfare. Very justified to begin with given the excesses of the wealthy versus the grueling hardship of the poor. However that very quickly becomes gulags for anyone who might disagree with the ruling clique.
Now its racial and sex ‘privilege’ and is leading to a similar place.
Confused @ 7:34 said:
‘– some of the english get all upset about the norman invasion, and its consequences; tolkien was one. Some of the (dumber) english claim to be vikings, probably for the shield maidens.’
The English have been upset by the Norman invasion from the moment it happened. There is documentary evidence from the time bemoaning that the true Englishman (read Anglo-Saxon) is gone, no more, replaced by the foreign invading Normans. The Normans of course are in fact of Viking descent though those who claim Viking ancestry won’t be referring to that.
Where I live (West Yorkshire) there was a surprising cluster of Romano-British DNA but then not so surprising because the area corresponds to the old Kingdom of Elmet, a last Celtic stronghold in England till c600AD, and a place of dense forests and lawlessness according to legend (see Ted Hughes Remains of Elmet). It was ruled by one King Gwalog who ended up in Wales. And now the DNA evidence proves this but also that the inhabitants did not flee but bred with the Anglo-Saxons.
I cannot claim this lineage personally though, as I am from the south so am very likely pure Anglo-Saxon, which I am perfectly happy with, though frankly I could not really give a toss what my genetic make-up is in terms of ancestry, though I find it interesting nevertheless. I don’t really hold with the idea that culture has much to do with DNA.
Now we are oot of Dundee my Internet Service Provider has thrown a tantrum. I log onto WOS under an ISP e mail. I will never do that again. Ah well I disappeared a few years ago and shortly will be cut off. Could be my last chance to wish you well Stu. Rest assured we are not moving to Bath. A nice town but not on our list. Although we might not be too far from you. My wife is delighted she is not stepping over druggies to get to the supermarket.
U.K. or Westminster Debt Clock
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
Remember 300 years of Scotland not being permitted debt
Hi Tannadice Boy.
Cornwall is nice. The people are a bit like us – they resent control from London.
A lot of brilliant stuff on here today, and unusually I have read most of it, I must have to much time on my hands lol.
I will not go into certain personalities and their silly nonesense as we all know who they are, but one thing I just have to point out again is this.
Do not reply to them, you only give them a platform, ignore them, the poor souls will get bored and go away eventually.
Anyway, I’m off to youtube to partake in my fav comedy shows, is there help anywhere for all us youtube addicts lol
@Brian Doonthetoon 10:33pm
Of our 6 locations 2 of them are in Cornwall. Pricey but manageable. My wife is so happy even although we are in a temporary situation just now. Keep the flag flying Brian you are a good un.
Joe @ 9.20 & 9.57
{ Firstly let me fess up and apologise espically to Ruby … the other day the way I wrote my post I claimed several times there were 70 million people in London alone … I know there’s not, and everyone else probably does too, and I’m too affronted to go back and look to see if anyone bothered to correct me on it.
I was rushing to make my point about immigration and even though I read it back I didn’t spot my idiotic claim ( tis a wonder there’s no been Hammers wielded ) numbers have never been my strong suit but I’m no usually that far oot , can I just leave it at we need people ? 🙂 }
Anyhoo joe
We need people…or we need a very radical and fast rejiging of Scotland !
What exactly do you suggest we do about it?
Assuming we agree that Westminister manage things to suit London ( and why wouldn’t they ? )
And
Westminister are to be gotten out of Scotland’s Business because we are fed up funding London.
I’ll quite happily discuss “fortress Scotland ” and seriously too.
I’d go from Fortress Scotland right over to an open door policy and everything in between … we’ve led the way and changed the world before…
It is a conversation that Scotland needs to have and we need to do it with cool heads.
It’s also a conversation that western democracies seem quick to shut down any sense on.
I won’t entertain a Breeding programme suggestion , no matter how prettily worded.
Those notions are gone, they are not coming back and everyone ( not you personally joe ) better make their peace with that.
So Joe .
New people … how and when ?
Or
Design Fortress Scotland to sustain a 21st centurary lifestlye and keep the young people out numbered, out voted , and out of the Emirgation que ???
You have the Conch !!!
Hi Tannadice Boy.
Me and wife #1 did the St Austell area back in the 80s. A long drive but a great holiday. Never fancied the surfing an’ thah on the north coast.
Ever noticed that the sand is a lot finer on Scottish beaches (Broughty, Monifieth, Carnoustie, Tentsmuir For example) than English beaches, where the sand tends to irritate the tootsies? Carlyon Bay had decent sand. And a naturist beach…
Don
I worked twenty years in the offshore industry and can assure you that Scotland and Norway have produced very similar quantities of crude oil over the last forty years or so and the production costs are just the same. The oil companies have an interest in keeping costs low.
The difference being that not a single penny of the Trillion dollars worth of revenues was allocated to Scotland and the majority was used to reduce the top level of income tax from 60% to 40%. Great for the rich.
Norway has invested every penny for the good of their nation. Tragically there will come a time when we are left only with the old rusting abandoned oil rigs but we can look across the North Sea to the richest country in the world.
Hi Liz g says at 10:46 pm.
You mentioned,
“Fortress Scotland right over to an open door policy and everything in between … we’ve led the way and changed the world before…”
which reminded me of this…
http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/ordbog/sord/_pdf/Fortress_Scotland.pdf
@Brian Doonthetoon 10:54pm
I had the privilege of working in the Western Isles thee greatest beaches in the UK. We had a holiday on Barra and I have to say the beach on Vatersay was outstanding. A weeks holiday that seems a long time ago now. But was the best family holiday we have ever had. The colour of the water on Vatersay was turquoise. Amazing!
All this talk about maintaining the purity of Scottishness is for the birds.
We need open borders to trade and to survive.
This has been our wont.
We have travelled.
Indeed Scots were at the vanguard of the empire.
This narrative about Scotland being colonised by England is rubbish.
An independent Scotland needs to be open for business and welcoming to all.
Brian Doonthetoon @ 11.07
Wow scary stuff,and I’d guess we don’t yet know the half of it.
I long read I’ll certinly save for later and I’ll be looking at it with the Rev in my ear too.
I’ll be trying to pick out our value to Westminister and NATO going forwards.
Because if the war games that they play every year aren’t drawing income to the UK treasury ( aye right) I’ll certinaly be arguing they sure as shit better to Holyrood..
Or they can simulate the hell out of the Highlands and see how far they get …
Hi Stephen at 11:10 pm.
You opined,
“This narrative about Scotland being colonised by England is rubbish.
An independent Scotland needs to be open for business and welcoming to all.”
Can you square those contradictory statements?
It’s not contradictory.
I believe both statements to be true.
Research the history of the empire and you will find that Scots were at the heart of it.
We benefited from it.
Just consider the street names in Glasgow.
All this about relishing the purity of our stock is ridiculous considering how widely we have travelled and the interbreeding which has taken place.
Are we going to deny the vote to people who live in Scotland but are from somewhere else?
We need all the help we can get.
WGD must be the worst of all the Indy blogs.
Full of all sorts of freaks and Sturgeon fanatics.
No wonder Sturgeon’s a fan.
It’s a website that I have never visited.
Wee brass neck scrounging bastard.
Stephen @ 11.10
Well yes Stephen it’s a daft notion to be sure… but , in, breaking down the conversation to ..Corporations and their power over us and buying local to help the environment … there may be lessons to be learned from the world when it was less integrated and interdependent .
Of course the racial purity nonsense is no anything any serious person entertains ( science has gone far to far for that anyway ) but to study and look at tribal and clan systems for what they have to teach us now could be useful.
We know to our cost all about how our natural tribal instincts are used against us and are encouraged to see them as regressive.
( One look at Westminister and we get all the confirmation bias we need of extreme *Tribe gone wrong civilise immediately * type performances.)
But, not everything about the Tribes and the Clan system was bad for humanity and certainly not for the planet..
Mibbi we should look closer at them to see if there’s anything we could use to advance humanity ?
And certainly look to see what Scotland can use..
Liz
Yes
I’m all in favour of buying local to support the environment and I agree with you about the egregious effects of multinationals.
I’m not sure, however, that there is any merit in searching for an ethnic tribal base for an independent Scotland.
Stephen @ 11.57
Me either Stephen..
That’s not what I said at all.
I’m saying there’s a conversation to be had.
Encompassing the full range of possibilities .
And to deny that our ( and everyone else’s ) tribal instincts are not being played on is naive.
To deny we have such instincts serves only those who who’ll use them.
So.
I say include them without shame in the conversation and see where we are willing to go next.
‘We need open borders to trade’
lol
Ok Liz
Sorry if I misunderstood.
It’s good to talk as Bob Hoskins once said!
Stephen says:
19 May, 2021 at 11:10 pm
All this talk about maintaining the purity of Scottishness is for the birds.
We need open borders to trade and to survive.
This has been our wont.
We have travelled.
Indeed Scots were at the vanguard of the empire.
This narrative about Scotland being colonised by England is rubbish.
An independent Scotland needs to be open for business and welcoming to all.
Jeezo. This is a full on Neil Oliver level of deluded bullshit. “Open borders to trade and to survive” is it? Brace yourself Stephen. You might want to be sitting down while somebody tells you about Brexit.
Breeks
Yes
Your arguing skills are poor though.
Stephen @ 1.17
That’s disappointing Stephen…
A personal attack ?
Is not the level I thought I was engaging at.
Bye Stephen
Cornwall Spain or Turkey
Turkey every time for me, and then Abuyog
you will engage with twits and they always end up being abusive, ignore them every time
Spot the yoony debate 1977
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZocGxL23s
Rob Brown’s Jaggy Blog is proving to be a good and timely addition to the indy blogging community. If there are Wingers who haven’t visited yet you should pop over there.
Well the New SNP Cabinet sure makes for a gallery of amateurs and failures. Seems like any kind of knowledge of the ministerial brief is not required on the job description.
I see Bagpus Blackford is still whittering on about Brexit… man, he really doesn’t do self awareness – let it go mate the SNP blew its chance to do anything about Brexit, you’re embarrassing yourself now.
Fake Trade Deals Westminster Style.
Very rich shill Liam Fox has signed up a trade deal with Papua New Guinea.
I know they must be about 10,000 miles away and are known for protected
exotic bird species.
Does any know of buying a product from that country, any product?
If we do buy something, how much does it cost to export that distance
and what harm to greenhouse gasses for all that fuel?
Now would that little pretty poor and remote country with minimal resources be able to
govern itself, whoops it seems to be doing that already with England begging for a deal.
If you were a small country looking to trade, would you give one country a sweater deal than you
would a group of 27 countries who are a little closer to you and who honour their trade deals?
Now we rejoice that Australian farmers can export their foods here without tariff?
Well that should make larger profits for the supermarkets who won’t cut prices and
of course it should herald the end for many local farmers.
Well farmers, you do tend to vote Tory, don’t you.
Perhaps the plan is to have everything shipped in from 12,000 miles away creating demand for new
ships to be built in the U.K., or England as it’s also known.
Just need to find a ship yard owned by a Tory donator and they can take as much as they like
from the tax payer.
FYI At the moment, something as simple as a metal clad socket with a NATO approved manufacturer already costs hundreds of pounds.
It’s a nice way of claiming it’s something special or complicated so must cost tax payers money
big time.
Effigy , shrunken heads???
The madness continues. Cll George Gordon objects to a small sea sports development at Silverknowes,Edinburgh. Again,against the very favourable local support. He says it is on amenity land. Dog shite versus healthy sport for young people.
He is an SNP councillor.
Why are they doing this? What motivates such an idiotic objection. Motive???
I am horrified at the unseemly choice of Somerville as Education Minister as she has literally no professional education qualifications. I thought I had better check it out, however and discovered that her Wikipedia page has already been updated to include her new post. (And I was right about her lack of professional education qualifications).
I shudder to think of the ill-informed decisions that will be taken under her direction.
Amazing how fast the SNP can get off the ground when it is a question of promoting themselves, in comparison to their lack of speed and direction concerning independence!
@Liz G
Hungary are currently well into a process of national revival and incentives to families have got their birth rates up and marriage rates up.
You can stimulate population growth without putting a gun to womens heads and saying ‘breed’. If women want to do other things then that is fine.
A country can have a sensible immigration policy that respects the needs of the people who live there with taking on a ‘fortress’ mentality.
There is nothing normal about throwing open borders. The ‘boats from Africa’ (or anywhere else) immigration policy is not something any sane country would suggest.
Besides, as I have already said – the 1 ndustry that requires an expanding base of people is the Banking industry. The first reason is for the generation of more debt and the second is the artificially high housing prices.
I can point to a number of places on mainland Europe filled with multi-lingual christian-based highly educated young people who are on the verge of grinding poverty who can’t even enter our country for a holiday much less come here and make a life.
The immigration we are seeing is not for our (or the migrants) benefit.
Correction – without taking on a ‘fortress’ mentality.
David Caledonia @ 3.28am :- aye and quite a few of them frequent this site.
I do not think a Minister requires qualifications in the subjects their ministry deals with as this would be nearly impossible in some area of expertise. Very few medical people at consultant level for example would be attracted to politics,the notable exception in the SNP was hit by the Cherry vindictive NEC ruling.
What a Minister DOES require is the intelligence and wisdom to hear the advice of Civil Servants and government advisors and advance the policies which would do the most good.
Shirley-Anne Somerville has demonstrated in her previous post that she has none of these qualities. She is however,very woke like her boss.
I remember in the eighties the equivalent to woke was the fear of witchcraft and the homophobia and conversion therapy views of the bible belt Republicans in the USA. Many people in senior positions in the public services here got free trips to the US to get “brainwashed”. It was very effective,so much so,that my pis staking of their new found views fell on deaf ears.Like the woke!
Just reporting a curious thing if anyone is interested –
I was awake early and heard the some of the first new broadcasts of the day on BBC R4 (poss 5.30/6.00 can’t remember which)
They reported that the inquiry into the infamous Martin Bashir interview with Princess Diana has reached the conclusion that Bashir obtained the interview by deceit as it was supposed to be an interview with her about her charitable activities.
Haven’t heard a peep on any radio broadcast since then about the inquiry and the only mention on their webpage says that the report is due on May 14th.
Interestingly, it was reported about a week ago that Bashir had retired from the BBC on health grounds – conveniently it now seems.
So what now BBC – do you indulge in underhand tactics and devious means to get your message across? Surely not!
How will the establishment react to this deceit?
Sue them?
Famous 15 @9.46
A discussion about the new cabinet on Radio Scotchland about an hour ago commented on the fact that she/her has moved Swinney to safety as there will be a lot of trouble coming down the line towards whoever the Education Secretary is – they actually suggested that Somerville was perhaps a sacrificial lamb!
Effigy
As a major exporter of commodities, Papua New Guinea mainly exports gold, copper, palm oil and coffee. Main exports partners are Australia, Japan, Germany, China and Singapore. Papua New Guinea mainly imports fuel, rice, vehicle, machinery and equipment.
There are three possibilities I can think of – Fox has mining / palm oil plantation interests; there is some connection with the Australian trade deal or it’s part of the grand plan to get involved with the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) – I see that the wikipedia page describing the agreement has already been updated to show the UK’s application.
So the Home office has said that it will get the two men who alluded them on Kenmure street in Glasgow at a later date. The Home Office also admitted to to trying to coerce the Sikh community into helping with removing the men, and no doubt other folk who live in Scotland, but the Sikh community wisely decided to have no dealings with that particular devil.
Meanwhile I see Sturgeon the Betrayer has all but shuffled the chairs on the Titanic with her cabinet positions, the most outrageous of all is appointing the ultra dense Shirley Anne-Sommerville as Education secretary.
No doubt Larry Flanagan, General Secretary of the Educational Institute of Scotland will never be off the phone to this dolt, as she further f*cks up children’s education in Scotland.
Joe @ 9.00
While I agree that the current immigration set up is not in our intrests I’d also point out that in recent history two relitivly empty countries that did open their borders America and Australia did rather well from it.
They, as would we,had to eventually get more selective but they strengthened their worker/tax base.
As for stimulating population growth …. why would we need to choose that ?
There are plenty of people already around Scotland just needs to attract them here.
As you said yourself there are some right on our doorstep.
Also
I am presuming you mean ” culturally ” Christian here for the purposes of ease of blending into community’s , but I would point out that’s no always as straightforward as it seems as we saw on Saturday Christians have their nutters too and many cleave to a way of life we are trying to get away from.
A strong secular Constition would, I think , be a pre requisite for us to do what we can to eliminate serfdom in all it’s forms.
Spain delays self-id.
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20210518/ley-trans-no-saldra-adelante-abstencion-psoe/2090845.shtml
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=en&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtve.es%2Fnoticias%2F20210518%2Fley-trans-no-saldra-adelante-abstencion-psoe%2F2090845.shtml
@Lizg
Yes you are right. But im pointing out that there are practical ways to get a country revived without the ‘we need open borders’ nonsense that countries are already putting into practice. Why shouldn’t Scotland put the well being of Scots first?
I agree with the secular constitution but European Christians are pretty much in alignment with this anyway. I don’t know of any European christians who are not generally content to work under a secular government. When it comes to womens rights and secularism its not European Christians, or people from European countries that are Christian, who are the main problems.
Either way what we are seeing now is utterly unnecessary and is sinister from the way its done, to the groups behind it and in the way we were never asked while criticism is always painted as the expression of some sort of racist, evil (and soon potentially criminal) ideology.
Again – if the trans debacle hasn’t got anyone wondering what insanity might be in store for us with any of these other ‘woke’ pet projects then they probably need to stay off the whisky for a bit.
Immigration could be increased by having free movement from the EU. ie being a member of the EU.
This could also attract people & businesses from the RUK.
I’m not convinced that it is a good thing to have a country divided up into different communities ie Muslim communities/Sikh communities etc.
I understand why people would want to do that but I think it should be discouraged.
Immigrants from the EU & RUK more likely to integrate due to similar culture.
A bit o/t
I know the clowns over the rainbow in WGD land still read the comments here so here’s a question given that most of you lot have one foot in the grave do you expect to see a Independent Scotland in your lifetime under this SNP leadership ? it’s a honest question .
I wonder what the people on the doging side referred to as the WGD I wonder what exactly they are going to talk about for the next 5 years ? It’s just round the corner , it’s within touching distance ,we are on our way , a section 30 gold standard approval will be agreed by Bawjaws they talk about gaining independence as if it’s early 2014 ,
Christ that’s really stretching their belief in Princess Nicolas ability we have gone into reverse since the vote in 2014 no preparations have been made to present a believable case for a Independent country to the people who need to be convinced ,
She has poisoned the well of hope and belief she has singlehandedly fragmented and divided the YES movement , she’s either stupid or she is indeed following orders I would like to believe she’s not a very good politician or tactician because the thought of her being controlled by the English establishment is very troubling and has wider implications but this could explain some of the wreaking and divisive decisions she has made since becoming First Minister .
To be able to discuss immigration you need free speech and we haven’t had that since Labour’s PC brigade started calling people racists if they dared to mention immigration.
Same applies now to self-id/GRA any criticism and you are branded transphobic & worse.
Ruby says: at 10:38 am
“I’m not convinced that it is a good thing to have a country divided up into different communities ie Muslim communities/Sikh communities etc.
I understand why people would want to do that but I think it should be discouraged.”
Aye, but the way things are being steered by the current wazzocks of the political class and the agendas they are pushing, societies are going to be divided anyway, but not only by religion, or ethnicity, it’s more likely to create yet another split between the sane and the stark raving bonkers factions.
It’s all just more pish being rained down on us to continue the divide and rule modus…
Interesting title ‘Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution’, in a territory treated as a colony whose constitution is ignored and disrespected.
According to the UN, independence is decolonisation: https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/c24/about
‘Cabinet Secretary for Decolonisation’ may therefore be more apt, especially in a country whose independence is being blocked, and to negotiate independence via the UN C-24 under the UN Charter instead of with Downing St.
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 10:06 am
So the Home office has said that it will get the two men who alluded them on Kenmure street in Glasgow at a later date. The Home Office also admitted to to trying to coerce the Sikh community into helping with removing the men, and no doubt other folk who live in Scotland, but the Sikh community wisely decided to have no dealings with that particular devil.
Reply
“The Home Office also admitted to to trying to coerce the Sikh community into helping with removing the men”
In what way? Did they say
“If you knowingly employ an illegal immigrant, or have ‘reasonable cause to believe’ the person does not have the right to work in the UK and you still employ them, you could face unlimited fines and a prison sentence of up to five years.”
‘Penalties for illegal renting
You could be sent to prison for 5 years or get an unlimited fine for renting property in England to someone who you knew or had ‘reasonable cause to believe’ did not have the right to rent in the UK.”
Perhaps none of this applies to Scotland and it’s OK to employ & rent to an illegal immigrant.
Perhaps it’s OK to employ people & pay them well under the minimum wage cash in hand in Scotland.
@Robert Graham
Its should be blatantly obvious to anyone who is not mentally ill that the SNP are not doing what they are supposed to.
So with that put aside – Scots need to stop being led by the nose by exciting and promising leaders. Scots need to be setting the agenda and grading politicians on their abilities to stick to it.
The cause of nationalism goes to more fundamental depths than the game we call politics. Scots need to be economically aware of Scotlands health and promote it by supporting pro Scottish businesses and people. Their needs to be deliberate pushing of our celebrations and culture nationally and internationally.
We need to have legal experts that push back against the BS we are seeing in the legal arena.
It has to feel good and to be rewarding to be Scottish. Not to always feel like the abused partner in a relationship you can’t seem to get out of while waiting on a corrupt band of imbeciles.
Pride needs to come back. Not the ‘Im proud to be Scottish but not if it offends anyone’ but far more ‘im proud to be Scottish, I don’t need any specific reason and you can GTF if you don’t like it’.
What’s most important, and to get back to leadership – we need public figures who are not in the political game and can’t be destroyed by the political game.
Mr Campbell showed that this is effective. People look to him for views and how to conceptualize what’s going on as well as for information – and he was difficult to get rid of because he never entered the farce of politics.
Politics is just 1 facet of all this. An important one but while we have years to wait to change the political landscape there are many positive things to be doing that advances the Scots as a people.
Lastly – Scots need to stop falling into political traps like referendums
Dan says
“it’s more likely to create yet another split between the sane and the stark raving bonkers factions.”
Reply
‘Nurse Ratched’ will be along soon to sort out those who claim to be sane.
“And they’re coming to take me away ha-haaa
They’re coming to take me away ho-ho hee-hee ha-haaa”
Hi Ruby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reemeYrAjus
Ruby @11.16am.
I’ve no idea how the Home Office plans to snatch the men, here’s the article and a snippet from it.
“However, the UK Government is likely to face a robust legal challenge. Robina Qureshi, director of charity Positive Action in Housing, said: “We are exploring what legal actions there are to take action against the Home Office.
“It’s wrong to call them illegal — the Home Office is casting aspersions on men from the Indian community. They have been living and working peacefully in the community for years and it’s just a matter of not having the right paperwork. They are not criminals, they are not costing anybody anything. Detaining them will only rack up a bill for the taxpayer.””
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19316181.home-office-vows-deport-indian-men-freed-dawn-raid-glasgow/
“Perhaps it’s OK to employ people & pay them well under the minimum wage cash in hand in Scotland.”
Perhaps that’s an assumption of yours. ( I know a prolific commentor, from another blog who’s very fond of using the word perhaps)
My view is that the Home Office (a misnomer if ever there was one) has been removing folk that IT finds are illegally living in Scotland, and as you’re fond of saying Ruby, Perhaps Scots are fed up with this kind of treatment, I know I am. England has been keeping Scotland’s population small and manageable for a long time, (ever wonder why England has ten times more folk than Scotland does), no we need control of immigration to grow our tax base, and I for one believe it we’d had control of we’d have voted to leave this union long before now.
@Alf Baird
Given his background, ‘Cabinet Secretary for Devolution’ may therefore be more apt. Another creature of the British Establishment.
From observing mass immigration being imposed on all western countries to present date, allowed and encouraged through the front door and the back door by our governments in their millions across Europe, allowed and trafficked by cartels trading in people
I would suggest that these poor immigrants are going to be used as future slave labour at the cost to locals and the immigrants,
Sweater shops for all,
If our countries cannot provide transport systems that are on time and regular, if our health care systems are diminishing through sell offs, and privatisation and the NHS already could not coping during the pandemic
If we can’t pay decent wages or find work for people already unemployed in western countries, or provide decent housing for our own homeless who lie on the streets ignored by our politicians,
How on earth will importing mass immigration of people help the situation or the immigrants.
We used to have, poor house in times not so far in our past, nowadays we have food banks for ordinary people with families.
The immigrants will become used and abused, they will be in the poorest houses like Grenfell tower or living on the street, they will be used to keep cost of wages down for the elites to an all time low, which they themselves will Fall foul of. Many are not being recorded through the official paperwork, this not only makes them vulnerable, it means they may fall foul of pimps and prostitution, fed by drugs, and of corse if no one is aware you’re here, an immigrant can just as easily be disposed of. No one would be looking for your death in the papers,
Here in Britain the structures for society are crumbling at a faster rate than thought possible in my life time.
These immigration policies without support for the migrants, or the people already here will impose poverty on the masses,
This may be advantageous for elitism and slave labour. But not for the immigrants or locals.
Both these two sets of people will be held hostage to conditions like in the earlier centuries, being held by masters and to poor to escape.
This is not about being kind to our fellow man, woman or child, this is about being kind to the rich,
The use and terminology of the phrase “Human Resources” in government, Councils and big businesses is not there by accident this century.
Alf @11.04.
Yes Alf, that crossed my mind as well, Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, it has a hollow ring to it when you know that Scotland is treated like a colony, but outwardly to the masses it give off the impression that something important is going on behind the scenes with regards to a constitution or movement to get Scotland out of this union, when we know that’s not the case.
Its almost akin to Boris Johnson’s empty title Minister for the Union.
Talking to two Tory Voting nurses this morning, and they went on to tell me how much they hated Nicola Sturgeon because she’s determined to break up the UK.
I told told them that while Sturgeon was running the show, there would be no chance of the UK being broken up, and that Sturgeon was probably as bigger Tory than Ruth Davidson.
They were taken back by my negativity I had regarding Sturgeon and had never heard of any splits within the Yes Movement.
Also got the usual Salmond reply.
Point being, the ignorance among usually quite intelligent people is astounding and depressing at the same time.
It’s very interesting talking to complete strangers to see exactly where we are regarding widespread opinions.
And it seems to be along the lines of:-
Sturgeon is “Robert the Bruce” in a skirt, and Alex Salmond is the worst threat to women since “Jack the Ripper”.
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 12:26 pm
Alf @11.04.
Yes Alf, that crossed my mind as well, Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, it has a hollow ring to it when you know that Scotland is treated like a colony…
Not just a hollow ring to it, but if Westminster’s unconstitutional encroachment over Scotland’s sovereign rights continues to be ignored, and the Scottish “Government” meekly acquiesces to going along with it, just as they did over Brexit, then I think it goes beyond being something hollow, because it is actually setting unconstitutional precedents which Westminster will seize upon like a cable tie; tightening incrementally, without ever releasing.
It’s possible, I think, that the Scottish Government’s unconstitutional “concessions” to Westminster might be ultra vires under Scotland’s sovereign Constitution and can be undone, but unless or until Westminster recognises Scotland’s sovereign ascendency, (which it won’t until compelled to), the Scottish Government’s cowardice is allowing Westminster to entrench it’s colonial beachhead and thus make it’s encroachment all the harder to remove.
You almost want Scotland to have a Constitutional Minister, a bit like the office of Lord Advocate, who should properly be sitting outside of Government and independent, holding the Government in check, and compelling them to act Constitutionally, rather than a token mouthpiece Cabinet bauble talking pish on behalf of the Government of the day.
Sadly, we know that probity and principle makes no more sense to this SNP “Government” than the sovereign Constitution.
Dave Somerville says:
20 May, 2021 at 12:38 pm
Talking to two Tory Voting nurses this morning….
….. the ignorance among usually quite intelligent people….
Tory voting nurses pass for intelligent people?
Breeks
Sturgeon is in favour of Devolution for four simple reasons:-
1/ The huge salary the Murrells pick up.
2/ The luxury Mansion lifestyle.
3/ The Power it gives them.
4/ The fear of losing it all when we finally do become an independent nation.
Breeks,
The problem we have, is the Scottish government ( snp) does not seriously recognise the sovereignty of the Scottish people either, or they would have acted when we gave them all those mandates.
The pressure on the snp this year will have to reach a crescendo,
Snp don’t try for independence”. Or “snp squandered sovereign mandates” might be a good flag to fly on a rally or march
They have never joined the people in support for independence, but we can call them out on it publicly, and we must.
I notice Sturgeon hasn’t taken the opportunity of the Grand Reshuffle of her Cabinet to boot out Lord Wolffe her political [?] Lord Advocate.
This week would have been the perfect time to boot him and his Office out of the SNP Cabinet.
James Che
Sturgeon doesn’t do “Indy”, that’s for the scum end of society.
She’s more of a “Rainbow Rally” wummin.
Show her one of them and she’ll be front and centre before you can say “shut that door”.
@Republicofscotland – 20 May, 2021 at 12:20 pm
“we need control of immigration to grow our tax base”
I don’t agree with you, as I think we need control of our education and employment policies so that we can grow our industries, create new classes of gainful employment, hire our unemployed and unemployable, increase the wages paid to the people already living here, and hence grow our tax base that way.
A bit like the Germans have always done without even having to think about it.
But let’s just say you have it right.
To have control of immigration, an Independent Scotland can’t be in the EU. So careful what you wish for.
Jack Murphy
Regarding James Wollfe – the two irreplaceable members of the Cabinet are Wolffe and John Swinney – they know where all the bodies are buried, and, with that knowledge, they could bury Sturgeon.
John Main @1.26pm.
Yes better education and training would get more folk into higher paid jobs, but we’ll always need folk to work in our service sectors, and I’d imagine that more folk will works in the service sectors in a country than any other sector. So if your good idea did come to fruition who’d work in the service sectors? I think this makes immigration a necessity as well, and it would ultimately increase our tax base in the long run.
As for your EU poser, I’m all for joining EFTA.
“It is important to stress that countries can only be members of the EEA either through EFTA or the EU. This is quite clear in the EEA Agreement, especially in Article 126 where it is stressed that the agreement only applies to territories covered by the EU treaties as well as of the EFTA/EEA countries. This has also been confirmed by experts such as Jean-Claude Piris, former head of the EU’s legal service, and that consequently leaving the EU means leaving the EEA.”
“While countries that join EFTA must sign up to all free trade deals the club has concluded jointly, as stated in article 56 of the EFTA Convention, only three of EFTA’s current four members, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, are part of the EEA Agreement, which means unilaterally accepting a large number of EU laws, giving certain jurisdiction to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) through the EFTA Court and allowing free movement of people from the EU as explained in the paper.”
“The EEA Agreement, or more precisely Article 128, states that that while any European country that becomes member of the EU shall join the EEA, any new EFTA member, or Switzerland which is in EFTA but not in the EEA, may apply to become part of it. In other words, for EFTA countries, membership of the EEA is entirely optional while it is, on the contrary, an obligation in case of countries that join the EU. After all EFTA and the EEA are two very different beasts.”
Very glad to see BTL still going strong here .
It occurred to me that if Stuart does decide to permanently fold WOS ( Let’s hope he doesn’t , but ……? ) is there a way to coordinate a transfer to another site – or perhaps a new one , where the committed , regular commenters here could ” meet ” ?
In the week since Stuart announced the hiatus I’ve looked elsewhere for the kind of ( mostly ! ) intelligent , passionate ,reliably informative, genuinely engaged discourse WOS provides and – no offence to the many good blogs ( NO NOT THOSE !! ) out there , none equal WOS in those qualities , so far . It would be a shame if the WOS ” community ” was dissipated , now , at a time when it’s really needed to counter the Sturgeon/New SNP purveyors of snake-oil laced Kool Aid
“You almost want Scotland to have a Constitutional Minister”
Breeks.
I’ll tell what I do want, I want Scotland to have a written constitution that states at the very top of it in bold letter that we are sovereign. A constitution that hold whatever FM is in office to account on the will of the Scottish people.
Here a model of a constitution.
https://constitutionforscotland.scot/constitution/
Well its comes to light, via the tv news that three-quarters of Civil servants come from privileged backgrounds, and those that don’t, find it difficult to move upwards due to the unspoken privileged etiquette within the Civil service.
I made a comment on WGD when folk were still able and when I still respected and trusted Nicola Sturgeon , ha ha yep along time ago now but I grew out of it .
I said I thought she was brave and was more or less unable to call for indyref2 until the country and the authorities got a grip on the Orange order and the embedded support for the Union
Well as we all know it hasn’t happened and this probably around 40% of people will never accept a Independent Scotland however badly westminster treats us , in fact the worse it gets the more the unionists will blame the SNP it’s all their fault for annoying the British establishment why cant they just get on together then we would be all right .
She’s either been frightened and warned of the likely consequences or the establishment have something so damaging to her personally that she’s just going through the motions of resisting but actually doing as she’s told I suppose we will never really find out the truth because the British state guards its secretes very well they have been doing it for a very long time and she is a amature at this game
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 12:20 pm
Ruby @11.16am.
I’ve no idea how the Home Office plans to snatch the men, here’s the article and a snippet from it.
“However, the UK Government is likely to face a robust legal challenge. Robina Qureshi, director of charity Positive Action in Housing, said: “We are exploring what legal actions there are to take action against the Home Office.
“It’s wrong to call them illegal — the Home Office is casting aspersions on men from the Indian community. They have been living and working peacefully in the community for years and it’s just a matter of not having the right paperwork. They are not criminals, they are not costing anybody anything. Detaining them will only rack up a bill for the taxpayer.””
Reply
That doesn’t make sense to me.
Someone driving without a licence isn’t committing a crime they just don’t have the correct paperwork? Would it be wrong to call that person ‘an illegal driver’
Very debatable as to whether they are/are not costing anybody anything!
It’s not the Muslim community anymore it’s the Indian community!
“Detaining them will only rack up a bill for the taxpayer.”
Is the idea not to deport them? Perhaps that can’t be done because they don’t have the correct paperwork. ie their Indian passports.
@Robert Hughes 20 May, 2021 at 1:47 pm
“It occurred to me that if Stuart does decide to permanently fold WOS ( Let’s hope he doesn’t , but ……? ) is there a way to coordinate a transfer to another site – or perhaps a new one , where the committed , regular commenters here could ” meet ” ?”
Your comments were fairly informative until you wrote “intelligent and reliably informative” Which only apply to a small number of people here, most though seem to live in bubbles of gross misinformation , conspiracy theory and fake propaganda.
On your other question i cannot think of any at all really , if you want something threaded where people could start their own threaded convos, maybe a Newsgroup or Google Groups or Reddit is where you want to look closer at.
Socrates @1:31
“they know where all the bodies are buried, and, with that knowledge, they could bury Sturgeon”
Why would they do that? They have the same paymasters therefore will follow the same instructions, as will Robertson. If it was Sturgeon/Murrell acting on their own, the bodies would already be in full view. The reason they’re not, is that it isn’t simply their double-act alone.
When the current Dear Leader crawls off into the sunset for her cozy number at the UN in return for services rendered to the UK, it’ll very much be a case of meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and plenty will get fooled again. (Apologies to Mr Daltry et al).
…’Daltrey’ even…Doh!
Ruby @2.11pm.
Your driving licence analogy is mere whataboutery, as for your costing point debatable it might be, evidence would be better.
“It’s not the Muslim community anymore it’s the Indian community”
Really, I’m under the impression that people from just about all ethnicities (including Scots) turned out to stop the snatch and grab in Kenmure street.
As for your last sentence Ruby, I suggest you take it up with the Home Office, I’m sure you’ll receive a swift answer from them, as you appear to be on the same wavelength.
Ruby says:
20 May, 2021 at 2:11 pm
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 12:20 pm
Ruby @11.16am.
2It’s not the Muslim community anymore it’s the Indian community!”
I think the men in question ar Sikhs – so why should it be the “Muslim Community”?
@Margaret Eleftheriou 20 May, 2021 at 8:41 am
“I am horrified at the unseemly choice of Somerville as Education Minister as she has literally no professional education qualifications. I thought I had better check it out, however and discovered that her Wikipedia page has already been updated to include her new post. (And I was right about her lack of professional education qualifications).
I shudder to think of the ill-informed decisions that will be taken under her direction.”
Why should you be surprised ? We know now that Sturgeon is a failed Lawyer who would likely have been booted by the Law Society for her failures if she hadn’t already been jumping ship to Politics anyway. Derek Mackay was a first Year University Dropout FFS and they made him Finance Minister (see how that worked out ?) And the current Finance Minister studied History FGS. Are there any of them with proven Financial or Scientific or Education backgrounds ? I think not , all just second raters.
Dave Somerville ,
miles ahead of you there. I was calling them out in 2018. Had personal dealings with them in 2017: got the reality of the party probably before a lot of others, only at that time I was ignored and called a troll by some,
I was just ahead of the game.
@Scozzie 20 May, 2021 at 8:18 am
“Well the New SNP Cabinet sure makes for a gallery of amateurs and failures. Seems like any kind of knowledge of the ministerial brief is not required on the job description.
I see Bagpus Blackford is still whittering on about Brexit… man, he really doesn’t do self awareness – let it go mate the SNP blew its chance to do anything about Brexit, you’re embarrassing yourself now”
Blackford knows he is just Bullshitting over Brexit , all the SNP know they are Bullshitting over Brexit because its all they have left. It seems merely about trying to milk fake greviances.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 2:28 pm
As for your last sentence Ruby, I suggest you take it up with the Home Office, I’m sure you’ll receive a swift answer from them, as you appear to be on the same wavelength.
Reply
What’s wrong with you giving me answers?
Wee Chid says:
20 May, 2021 at 2:31 pm
Ruby says:
20 May, 2021 at 2:11 pm
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 12:20 pm
Ruby @11.16am.
2It’s not the Muslim community anymore it’s the Indian community!”
I think the men in question ar Sikhs – so why should it be the “Muslim Community”?
Reply
That might be a question for She/Her who described the community as ‘our Muslim’ community and said something about a Muslim holiday.
Don @ 2.22 .
Well , that’s a matter of opinion , one I don’t agree with .
The vast majority of comments here are at the very least coherent , whether you agree with them or not : one person’s ” Conspiracy Theory ” is another’s evident truth – and when you hear deceivers like Sturgeon jumping on the CT slur to dismiss any uncomfortable criticism you know the term has been rendered meaningless
Don,
you really are hard of learning, aren’t you?
I’ve explained why your stance regarding Scotland is complete bollocks.
Why not give the iPad back to your big sister and run along, there’s a good chap.
Ruby @2.50pm.
Ruby I’m not your personal Norris McWhirter, I’m like YOU though you don’t seem to recognise the fact, not privy to all the info on the case, and your last sentence appeared to need a more clinical answer than just my opinion, so here you are knock yourself out.
Home Office Contact Number: 0300 123 2253
Oh and your line of approach reminds me of a commentor on another blog who was no lady (not that I’m saying you aren’t) but the line from Bruce Willis’s film Surrogates springs to mind when he said:
Lady I don’t know what you are you could be a big fat bloke sitting in your PJs at home for all I know.
Dave Somerville,
I presume you are not related in any way to the Somerville mentioned above in Scottish gov reshuffle.?
James Che
She has brought great shame upon the family name, LoL.
We only meet at funerals, lets hope the next funeral we meet at will be the death of the Sturgeon regime.
Its a long way to tickle mary, and its a long way to go to find out your really tickling a jimmy.
In the News of the World years ago there was a story….
Apparently a chief constable was going out with a woman for 6 months, he dropped the hand on her and discovered she was a man.
He must have been a real looker if he fooled the chief constable is all I can say.
But I don’t think the 7 o clock shadow would have fooled me, I used to have a beard and a woman said to me, I have never kissed a man with a beard before, and I said,
That makes two of us missus…………. ( that did happen )
Guess Don must be stuck on repeat posting that link again…
From the previous page.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/hostile-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-2661359
But if re-posting stuff is ok then I’ll just drop this Jim Rogers clip in again.
https://twitter.com/freethinker2030/status/1224038013409419265
Alf Baird 19 May, 2021 at 4:00 pm
“The economy is not linked to the constitution of a country”
The economy is very much to do with a countries demographics Scotlands costs are much much higher to run because we have a small spread out population (apart fron the Central belt) expensive Highlands and Islands to support. Scotland has a higher % of the over 70’s population than RUK overall (in common with Northern Ireland) So again high costs because Health Care and support for the elderly in rural areas costs plenty. The double whammy with this issue is that while having a higher % of the Elderly we also have a lower % of the younger workforce as families nowdays have less children , so with more older people and a dwindling younger population who are going to pay all the taxes needed to pay for all the “Free Stuff” in the future when Oil finally goes down the toilet with the move to Elecric Cars ? (Scotland has one of the Highest Costs to produce Oil in the whole World..about twice as costly overall as Norway so its our Oil Industry that will be first to downsize when the Electric Car revoluation really hits home)
But of course you won’t beleive me so you can learn from the Scottish Parliaments own advisors who Sturgeon Herself is happy to quote when it suits Her.
While we really raise less taxes than RUK (its not that much less) that isn’t the biggest issue its Scotlands much much higher spending costs that is the real issue ..the costs of being more rural , having higher % Elderly yet a smaller % of the young workforce.
Try not to dismiss facts that you simply don’t like because it doesn’t suit your own MO.
shorturl.at/owxOP
And don’t try to just dismiss GERS numbers when the SNP’s own Economist tells you otherwise.
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
“The main aim of colonialism to to plunder and exploit” Complete BS , Scotland never was a colony of anyone. Joining the larger UK was Scotlands own choice after losing most of its National Wealth after the Darien Scheme Failure. shorturl.at/hpxQ1
Republicofscotland says:
20 May, 2021 at 3:02 pm
Ruby @2.50pm.
Ruby I’m not your personal Norris McWhirter, I’m like YOU though you don’t seem to recognise the fact, not privy to all the info on the case, and your last sentence appeared to need a more clinical answer than just my opinion, so here you are knock yourself out.
Home Office Contact Number: 0300 123 2253
Oh and your line of approach reminds me of a commentor on another blog who was no lady (not that I’m saying you aren’t) but the line from Bruce Willis’s film Surrogates springs to mind when he said:
Lady I don’t know what you are you could be a big fat bloke sitting in your PJs at home for all I know.
Reply
‘I’m like YOU though you don’t seem to recognise the fact, not privy to all the info on the case’
My mistake I thought you were here to defend the actions of the accused and the protesters and that you would have all the facts.
Snap! You remind me a of poster on another blog one who always resorted to abuse when he was unable to present a coherent argument. He always went along with things even if he didn’t have all the facts, basically he behaved in a cult like manner.
Hey Don –
the wings back catalogue is a fine reference :
https://wingsoverscotland.com/reference/
your darien anal-ysis is a crock
https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/
do some reading before you give your poundshop economic analysis – and if you post a reference state concisely how it supports WHATEVER THE FUCK YOUR POINT IS
in terms of the big picture –
EMPIRE IS ALWAYS A LOOTING OPERATION, otherwise no one would do it; did the british empire say “oh look lets give the darkies the railroad”? – as for “the books”; the books are always cooked to some degree, everyone in business knows this – this is the main objective for most industrial espionage, honest numbers.
According to court historians the british empire never made a dime, broke even at best – this is bullshit, but you are expected to believe it because some Oxford vowel mangler says so. And today, Scotland is still a basket case, propped up by generous England, whose altruism is misunderstood. Scottish independence should therefore make England richer and be supported widely – instead we are held vice-like, like Gollum’s fingers around the one ring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69uM5q1ULvQ&t=60s
Dan says:
20 May, 2021 at 3:16 pm
Guess Don must be stuck on repeat posting that link again…
Reply
‘Groundhog Don’ strikes again!
Don.
When did the Scottish population join the rest of the uk?
That’s news to us!
The only people that joined are the ones on the contractual agreement, named the treaty of the union.
The rest of Scotland didn’t join,
Don,
We get it, Scotland is too poor for self determination, yawn.
Using your yardstick,how many other countries in the world should hand their decision making to their neighbour?
“My mistake I thought you were here to defend the actions of the accused and the protesters”
Ruby.
Yes it is your mistake, I’ve been defending them against the Home office since it happened, and will continue to do so.
Looky here at shitey too poor Scotland exporting considerably more energy than we are using.
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
Oh, and that’s still not enough to keep the lights on in England as they are also importing 10% of GB Grid power from those pesky Europeans in France and Belgium.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Ruby 20 May, 2021 at 3:31 pm
“Groundhog Don’ strikes again!”
Its certainly funny when the same people time after time are
unable to understand what the SNP’s own Top Economist is telling them , is it really that hard to take in ?
Margaret Cuthbert is very clear , GERS nunbers are sound so why do so many other non qualified economists think that they know better than she does ?
The only people here suffering Stockholm Syndrome are yourselveshttps://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
The SNP themselves have had full control of the design of GERS since 2007 , Margaret Cuthbert made that clear in that link, all their OWN designs for GERS since 2007 are on the Scot Gov Website for all to see for themselves
https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20191010063153/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
Breastplate
Well the French have been making decisions for the English since 1066.
Confused says:
20 May, 2021 at 3:26 pm
Hey Don –
the wings back catalogue is a fine reference :
Reply
‘Groundhog Don’ is stuck in 2014 were the only catalogue available to him is the ‘Better Together’ archive.
On saying that I think the ‘New SNP’ might also be stuck in 2014 & it’s high time they updated the their Independence catalogue.
Breastplate 20 May, 2021 at 3:36 pm
“Using your yardstick,how many other countries in the world should hand their decision making to their neighbour?”
Same old worn out boring crap, Scotlands decisons are made in Scotland at Holyrood where all Scottish Laws and Taxes are set.
All Scottish Taxes received by Scot Gov can also be found on the Scot Govs own website. https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2020/08/gers-detailed-methodology-2019-20/documents/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/govscot%3Adocument/GERS%2B2019-20%2B-%2BDetailed%2BRevenue%2BMethodology.pdf
Of course if Scotland ever moves to become independent then England will threaten that they won’t buy our leccy which will damage Scotland’s future trade figures.
England will instead just get a trade deal for power with Australia, and nip out to B&Q and buy a fucktonne of extension cables, that’ll work right?
Sturgeon’s latest ‘cabinet’ will prove as effective and competent as a storage ‘cabinet’ full of sock puppets. Summerville; Robertson; Robson etc etc. Meanwhile, the so-called ‘Referendum’ Election ‘vow’ as glacial as ever. The UK cabal sacrifices our agricultural sector and continues outsmarting and ignoring the ‘Parliament’ in Holyrood..not hard really.
Sturgeon is without doubt a plant. Whether a vegetable, mineral or political one, it does not matter. McVities closes and 500 jobs gone, plus ancilliary ones, plus families affected. Yet, not so much as a whimper or a failed attempt, again, to save the business.
Meanwhile the Scottish housing market is doing well: 11% increase in prices. Great news for RUK ‘White flighters seeking salubrious accommodation in pleasant surroundings at half the selling price of their more humble abodes. ‘New ways’ of working remotely..great, if you can afford it! More Unionist voters to flood the more remote rural areas and the wealthier city suburbs. Driving the poor and the young indigenous Scots ( not the SG TROPE ‘people who live in Scotland’) out of their areas and eventually their country. Colonisation by economic imperialism by any other name except here in auld Scotia.
But I’m not bitter. I’ll leave that to the lumpen proletariat clad in orange to despoil our biggest city with their rotten stink of sectarian rage and siege mentality. Craven bitches of England bedecked in the blood soaked ( mainly their own ) flags of surrender to the German royalty they worship in their begotten stupidity and ignorance. There is you true evidence of colonial success. Grown men pissing on the cenotaph, which commemorates the 148,000 Scottish dead in WW1 and the 62,000 in the ww2. One fifth of all UK war dead. The former group sacrificed in an internecine family squabble by Europe’s royalty. Yet these blue baboons celebrate an Irish based victory by King Billy on behalf of the Pope above this needless sacrifice of Scottish manhood.
I used to urge the Police and Government to face up to the challenge of this paramilitary inspired crowd. But I realise now that it is part of the strategy of disarming the YES Movement figuratively by demonstrating the complete impotence (and collusion) of the Scottish ruling elite in the face of Loyalist aggression. Make no mistake, this performance at the weekend was aimed as a warning to us to not get above ourselves. We are defenceless in the face of this aggression.
Dan says:
20 May, 2021 at 3:39 pm
“Looky here at shitey too poor Scotland exporting considerably more energy than we are using.
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
Oh, and that’s still not enough to keep the lights on in England as they are also importing 10% of GB Grid power from those pesky Europeans in France and Belgium.”
Simple Solutions as always while not understanding most of that leccy is generated during the night and at other times when its not needed ? The only thing lots of leccy during the night is good for is for pumping water back up into Hydro dams when we are sleeping to be used again for peak demand the following day, the rest of it goes unused.
And of course you do know Scot Gov already collects Corporation taxes from electricity companies already if they are profitmaking that is ? As always the issue appears to be lack of actual knowledge. https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2020/08/gers-detailed-methodology-2019-20/documents/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/govscot%3Adocument/GERS%2B2019-20%2B-%2BDetailed%2BRevenue%2BMethodology.pdf
Don says:
20 May, 2021 at 3:41 pm
Ruby 20 May, 2021 at 3:31 pm
“Groundhog Don’ strikes again!”
Its certainly funny when the same people time after time are
unable to understand what the SNP’s own Top Economist is telling them
Reply
Another top economist described GERS as CRAP.
Is it really so hard to take in what he says?
@Dan 20 May, 2021 at 3:50 pm
“Of course if Scotland ever moves to become independent then England will threaten that they won’t buy our leccy which will damage Scotland’s future trade figures.
England will instead just get a trade deal for power with Australia, and nip out to B&Q and buy a fucktonne of extension cables, that’ll work right?”
LOL “England” doesn’t buy Electricity, the National Grid (a listed company buys Leccy from Generators (including as you point out via Interconnectors) and then sells that on to Retail leccy companies so do try to stop making stuff up. It would continue to make its own commercial decisions based on supply and demand.
DON….G.E.R.S. was designed by Ian Lang, Lord Monkton ( ex Rugby and Cambridge Uni) in 1992 on the back of a fag packet. He was Sec. of State for Scotland at the time. Colonial Governor in other words.
‘In a leaked memo the then Secretary of State for Scotland Ian Lang wrote “I judge that [GERS] is just what is needed at present in our campaign to maintain the initiative and undermine the other parties. This initiative could score against all of them.”..(Wikipedia)
As the price of oil was falling at the time, Major the P.M was advised by Lang and his acolytes to fabricate this fiction. The ‘joke’ was that Scotland never received the oil revenues anyway, so that compounded the fiction further.
But as a Brit troll you already know all this, so fuck off back to Dennison Barracks and make yourself a hot cocoa drink and ask the R.S.M. for a transfer and DON’t come back.
@Ruby 20 May, 2021 at 3:57 pm
“Another top economist described GERS as CRAP.”
Richard Murphy really isn’t any sort of “Top Economist” if thats who you mean try googling him. He is more a propagandist who continually take contrarian Views and talks utter BS and is merely a “Tax Advisor “NOT any sort of “Top Economist” 🙂
Murphy got ripped up for bogpaper when he appeared at
Hollyrood
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:06:46&clip_end=11:16:13
Murphy likes to get on TV often and makes up stuff that people want to hear which drives them to his Youtube Channel where they become his “useful idiots” helping to fill his Bank Balance from all the advertising revenues he generates from all his BS video spouting nothing but invented fantasy economics. (Do try Goolging him as suggested its enlightening)
I understand that James Wolffe has been reappointed as Lord Advocate of the redactor pens. ‘All my law officers are honest’ – maybe they are James but you are as bent as a nine-bob note.
Wolffe, Somerville, Brown an Yousaf add up to a government of dishonest folk, arrogant folk and incompetents for me, I’m afraid.
Swinney has left behind such a disgracefully criminal mess at Education that Somerville will never fix it. Never in a million years. She’ll have to be replaced soon.
@ Don
Both those links are to live data feeds showing England is importing power from both Scotland and mainland Europe, and if you look at the graph traces you can see there’s very rarely any significant power being exported to either from England.
Ergo England needs to import power because they require more than they produce.
Talking of simple solutions… Howz Hinkley C progressing…
And those power generators you mention in the UK have to pay more to input the power they create into the grid the further they are from London.
https://thecommongreen.scot/2016/09/12/grasping-the-grid/
https://thecommongreen.scot/2016/09/21/harnessing-potential/
“Richard Murphy really isn’t any sort of “Top Economist” if thats who you mean try googling him. He is more a propagandist who continually take contrarian Views2
Don.
Utter bollock Murphy is even better placed than a top economist he’s a political economist, he’s also a Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University London.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Murphy_(tax_campaigner)
There’s a fair bit of shite typed in here in attempts to undermine what we already know.
“Both those links are to live data feeds showing England is importing power from both Scotland and mainland Europe, ”
Indeed Dan, that was the bollocks emanating from Westminster that if Scotland becomes independent England would buy its electricity from France. Its already importing energy from France to keep the lights on.
‘Don’ rhymes with ‘yawn’, just saying.
What a boring troll he is.
Don says:
(Do try Goolging him as suggested its enlightening)
Reply
First I would like to Google you ‘Groundhog Don’
Who are you and why should I believe anything you say?
What are you trying to achieve?
@Lochside 20 May, 2021 at 4:06 pm
“DON….G.E.R.S. was designed by Ian Lang, Lord Monkton ( ex Rugby and Cambridge Uni) in 1992 on the back of a fag packet. He was Sec. of State for Scotland at the time. Colonial Governor in other words”
Key info of “designed in 1992” and its now which year ? 🙂 GERS gets reviewed annually and the SNP’s own top Economist Margaret Cuthbert makes clear here the SNP has its OWN group that changes GERS annually, so if they can’t fill the spending gap when they have had control since 2007 how on earth do you think they will ever do that ? https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
And AGAIN you can see all the changes the SNP themselves have made to GERS since 2007 here we don’t use 1992 GERS now we are using last years SNP own designed GERS ! https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20191010063153/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
Has the Penny dropped yet ?
Don’t take the word of some in here over GERS, go to a tried and trusted source, Christ this is old rope we know the answers to the GERS nonsense.
https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-finances-the-truth/#:~:text=Business%20for%20Scotland%20has%20been%20calling%20on%20the,impacts%20on%20how%20the%20GERS%20figures%20are%20compiled.
Sturgeon and her new cabinet are pictured standing in front of Bute House with their right hands held up as if about to be sworn in. The FM, Yousaf, Robertson and Swinney all mocking us with this pose.
The oathsome loathsome.
The real ‘funny’ thing is, even IF the GERS figures weren’t manipulated, even if the McCrone Report wasn’t released, even if, even if, even if,… even if every article of Unionist bullshit and disinformation published in the last decade wasn’t horse shit but actually true, (calm down there Don, it isn’t ), it still wouldn’t matter, nor influence the desire to see Scotland’s status as an independent nation restored to where it belongs, in the family of global nations as an equal.
If the Union is that great a deal Don, then what would be to stop an Independent Scotland and an Independent England sitting down and negotiating a modern bipartite treaty which didn’t encroach over the sovereign constitutional rights of the Scottish people? If it really was such a brilliant arrangement, then it shouldn’t be very difficult to persuade the doubters should it? Yet strangely, since 2013, NOBODY, not one single person, has been able to articulate ANY positive case for the Union.
The entire Unionist argument is doom and gloom scaremongering; we’ll be poor, our kids will starve, we’ll suffer power cuts and be fighting a civil war in the streets. The sky will fall in, the world will shun Scotland and we’ll all have terminal tooth decay and rickets. Heads up Don, it’s all debunked garbage, but Unionists keep churning it out over and over again, boring everybody but persuading nobody. It hasn’t any purchase as an argument because there’s no substance to it.
It’s a serious question Don, it was also asked a lot back in 2014 but never once got an answer-
IF the UK Union didn’t exist, why would you invent it?
Over to you for the answer Don… 😉 Take your time, and in your own words…
Once again – there is no reason for Scotland to be in difficulty financially except for a legacy of mismanagement.
In and of itself Scotland has everything required to be a successful small country if under level headed management.
Any deficits, inadequacies, shortfalls and other apparently negative aspects can be laid at the feet of those who have been making the decisions until now.
It is simply gas lighting by the state (yes, exactly that term) to pretend otherwise.
To also pretend that ‘separatists’ do not represent the biggest potential danger to British natural resources, and therefore present a legitimate national security threat, is fantasy also.
All the tricks of warfare by intelligence agencies will be at play – media and other propaganda (including government ‘statistics’), psychological operations, infiltration of online and real groups and forums, infiltration of political groups and parties, blackmail and even the astroturfing of entirely new groups and movements etc.
At the start of the Covid lies the British army basically announced the deployment of psychological operations to ‘counter online misinformation’ so this is not some kind of wild conspiracy idea that the state would utilise military assets against the population – they are doing it as we speak.
It doesn’t matter if any one particular mode of propaganda or talking point doesn’t make sense. What counts is the general continuing demoralization.
Scotland is a geostrategic asset and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. We would be better off politically if we had no resources.
The only question for discussions on economy is if in the long term Scotland has the basics to function like any other small country. The answer is yes. That is all that counts.
I think Don has nipped out for a smoke break…
If an Indy ref is not agreed, voted upon and won within two years Scotland will remain in the UK for the foreseeable future.
The reason is staring us in the face, there is not one major Party working for Independence. Sturgeon wants and will get more power unless removed by legal means, but in the meantime she does not want the problems which will be implicit in the process.
The act of leaving the EU will make the UK an economic powerhouse, in a few years and when the UK economy is booming Independence will have few supporters
Salmond was right about one thing, we should be making the case for Independence right now while the UK is weak, who says that we must fight fair?
Aw c’mon now Breeks that’s no fair yuv asked him a question there’s nae answer tae in the better thegether handbook issued tae the barracks , Stuart Mackay I think Don is aiming for the better troll award you were talking about but Breeks , Lochside, Dan and others keep kicking his arse , I feel sorry for puir wee Don there’s nae answer to why Scotland is better in the union
Meanwhile ( DON) t ,
cannot find any evidence that the population of Scotland joined the treaty of the union in 1707.
All that can be found is a few self elected Scottish gents selling and conning English gents into buying a country in a supposed business deal between themselves,
Of corse the Scots population themselves never elected the so called representatives of Scotland,
Of corse the Scots population never signed the contractual agreement even with an X, as if in a vote at an election, or in any other legal document,
A few gents doing a business deal between themselves provides no evidence as to the sovereign Scots ever joining a treaty of the union contract in 1707.
Now if (DON)t wants to produce the evidence of millions of Scots in 1707 signing the Treaty of the Union Contract, please do, we are all waiting for you to scramble through the archives to find millions of Scots signatures from 1707,
If on the other hand millions of sovereign Scots signatures from 1707 cannot be found in the archives,
well well what do you know, no sovereign Scot sold their country to England,
A few crooks sold a country that did not belong to them.
Don) t , How about providing the written proof of signitures of the population of Scotland from 1707 on the treaty of the union.
We are not beholden or liable to a back room deal [done in secret ] under subterfuge between a few business gents in 1707. That is Their Personal mess to sort out all these years later.
And if the Scottish government or the snp wish to help them, Let them.
As it does not involve the Scottish sovereign people and their own country,
OT Found a bit of time for more transing
Tell you what, this Union has been about as much good for Scotland and as a sanitary towel is for a trans woman.
Woooah Bodyfrom
Shaped for confidence
Shaped for comfort
But not shaped for me…
Don:
I’d never thought I’d have to spring to R Murphy’s defence but he is perfectly sound on the economic basis for an independent Scotland.
I wouldn’t vouch for any other of his opinions, such as his furious promotion of owen smith (remember him? I think I might be the only one) being the acceptable tribune of the labour movement over J Corbyn.
He is also a consistently ungracious cunt to any who offer criticism, or remind him his current positions on economics lean heavier on enlightenment and effort other than his.
But as far as Scotland goes, he’s been OK.
Breeks
Well the obvious case for the Union is that it would be just as awesome as joining the EU. All the benefits of pooled resources, common legislation and standards to reduce red-tape for business, larger market, etc., etc. etc.
And the obvious case for not being in the Union is all the arguments (the real ones) for not being part of the EU.
So fear-mongering is all that’s left because they’re damned by their own actions if they do and damned by their own rhetoric if they don’t.
Dan says:
20 May, 2021 at 5:59 pm
OT Found a bit of time for more transing
Tell you what, this Union has been about as much good for Scotland and as a sanitary towel is for a trans woman.
Woooah Bodyfrom
Shaped for confidence
Shaped for comfort
But not shaped for me…
That’s not a bad analogy.
If you can start transing individuals,just through (abuse of) words and individuals, it’s a scalable ambition.
Soon everyone will be binational.
The SNP are not interested in debunking any unionist economic arguments – if they did the job too well they would have an intolerable demand for independence.
Economic arguments are always difficult to make to the public; conventional economists are largely a claque whose job is to support the system – and while you can sometimes find a maverick economist of your own to provide counterpoint – they will then be denounced as “not real economists” or “outside the mainstream”. Richard Murphy at least was useful in explaining how our “deficit” arose. Other names of interest would be : Michael Hudson, currently promoting an updated “Super Imperialism”, Steve Keen, Richard Werner – you will not get these guys on the telly, maybe RT – but then again they become “tools of russian propaganda”.
Economics and economists are prime targets for the pisstake; JK Galbraiths remarks about economic forecasts come to mind, and then there is the old adage – put 6 economists in a room, you will get 7 opinions.
Economics is pseudoscience, despite the fake Nobel they offer for it; more of a religion, with an orthodoxy and a dogma. If you want a career, you toe the line; there are not that many mavericks out there, and alternative ideas are simply lost in time. The orthodoxy changes over time, (e.g. it used to be the gold standard) – which by now is; private ownership good, public bad; giving money to the poor in wages is inflationary and bad, giving it to the rich to stick in the stock market and inflate asset bubbles, is good; money printing, austerity and rate cutting will solve all problems anyway; tax breaks for the rich are good, but public infrastructure spending is bad; rich people hiding their money in tax havens does little harm and has almost no effect; rich people owning the means of life itself, is not a problem; wealth inequality, is not a problem; rich people are disinterested and generally altruistic; money has not corrupted the law, or politics. Military spending is good, as it is non-inflationary. Extreme levels of debt are nothing to worry about. Govts creating their own money at zero interest, is an unbounded evil, private banks creating money, out of thin air, without any collateral, and paying interest, is right and true.
Anything you simply do not want to do – can be called “inflationary”. Tony Blair in all seriousness claimed a desired pay rise for the firemen would cost £200M and “wreck the economy”; sometime later the northern rock collapse happened, which cost around £50B.
Propaganda about the “freemarket” has always been nonsense (Adam Smith’s later writings) – and the europeans saw it as simply a conjob to promote british goods; the USA promotes it today, but built up its own industry via protectionism and patent-stealing. When british industry was out-competed by germany by 1914, germany had to be destroyed.
The court economists will thus propose a programme which involves handing over your country to wall st (and/or london, to a lesser extent) – any alternative, like using the wealth and resources of a country mainly for the benefit of its own people, will usually be denounced as “communist”. Thus, approved “economic experts” will provide a universal strait-jacket of an economic plan for your country, the only freedom being a limited choice over just how tight the individual straps are.
Public dissatisfaction is headed off by a battalion of public experts spewing jargon – deficit, debt, PSBR, inter bank borrowing, LIBOR, inflation rate, cost of living inflation, stochastic calculus, itos lemma, forex, derivatives …
– and the public is so bamboozled it will applaud house price inflation as an increase in public wealth. The representatives of the people – trade unionists, some politicians – are of such meagre intellectual calibre, they are incapable of challenging any of this … (if you understood all this crap you would get a job with a hedge fund, right? – and retire mid-30s, with 50M in liquid assets, buy a farm/small estate in the cotswolds or the highlands, and make your own jam and artisanl cheese, your fragrant wife an ex-model)
– some papers on economics being bollocks :
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/economics-debunked-chapter-two-for-sixth-graders.html
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/the-very-important-and-of-course-blacklisted-bis-paper-about-the-crisis.html
And even if Scotland was to become poorer outside the UK, I would still leave; but it won’t.
If the British Empire / UK was so good, so successful, so fantastic, such a civilising mission
– why does everyone want to leave?
– why do those who have left, never want back in?
– why have no other countries applied to join – Norway for example? Why not let it in to the UK? Or Belgium? Let the belgians become british!
but who would want to be in a bloated political union with foreigners who disrespect you, treat you like shit and exploit you economically?
– only the pig-fucking-ignorant
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7115591/rangers-fans-george-square-police/
When the United Kingdom looks at Scotland they can only see the country through the lense of their own limitations.
Since economics is just politics plus arithmetic why doesn’t the Scottish Government ditch the politics part – get rid of all the advisors and experts and civil servants who’ve been schooled in British ways and soaked in British incompetence and mismanagement for their entire careers.
Start sending people on extended placements to Norway, Estonia, even New Zealand. Find out how they solved their problems. That would bring a huge injection of ideas and allow us to break out of the lethargic strait-jacket that represents the British way of doing things.
@ paul
Ach, you might have corrected the typo and removed the bizarre un-required “and” whilst quoting me.
In my defence I was painfully distracted whilst typing and didn’t preview afore submitting as the towel wing clips were digging into ma bawz. 🙁
Have to say the last time I used a sanitary towel was way back when I was a man, and to be honest it fitted much better in my arse crack.
For readers with enquiring minds… It was used after my doctor had wielded a scalpel to cut and bleed out a couple of particularly painful haemorrhoids prior to competing in a weekend of bumpy offroad motorsport.
No pain, no gain they say, but thought to let folk know as they rarely hear about the less glamorous side of motorsport and what competitors have to put themselves through in their efforts to win.
Confused’s ScottishSun link archived
https://archive.is/rJZIN
Maybe there will be some progress made with Mairi Gougeon replacing Fergus Ewing as Rural Affairs Secretary.
https://twitter.com/RaptorPersScot/status/1395003365982187522
James Che
re the ‘People of Scotland signing the Treaty of Union’
I think History records that the people were extremely angry, so much so that the politicians/parliamentarians of the time were almost unable to walk through the streets of Edinburgh for fear of attack.
Both the Parliament of England and the Parliament of Scotland had to be closed down and a new Parliament of the United Kingdom created. England duly carried this out and closed down her Parliament.
However, Robert Peffer – a previous regular contributor to this site, informed us that the atmosphere was so tense that the final session of the Parliament of Scotland was unable to take place with the result that the Scottish Parliament was never closed down, merely adjourned.
Hence, when the Queen opened the new Scottish Parliament in 1999, the immortal words uttered by the amazing Winnie Ewing were –
The Scottish Parliament, adjourned on the 25th day of March, in the year 1707, is hereby reconvened.
Stuart MacKay says:
20 May, 2021 at 6:25 pm
Breeks
Well the obvious case for the Union is that it would be just as awesome as joining the EU.…
Yes, but no, there’s a big but… An EU type Union would be one which respected Scotland’s sovereign integrity and veto, but that makes it fundamentally dissimilar to the UK Union. It’s not comparing like for like.
It’s a different question whether formally changing the UK Union to a Confederation, which properly respects the sovereignty of it’s Nation state components. (Actually, I think that could be made to work), but that arrangement would actually see Scottish Independence delivered.
Truth be known, I actually think Westminster missed a trick with Scotland. Westminster could have embraced Scotland’s democratic desire to remain in Europe, but negotiated with Scotland and Europe for special status for England outside the EU, but effectively trading as a member, and based upon the former UK as creating a “special” circumstance. England would have loved that, free(ish) trade with Europe but without paying Membership fees…
England would have got the Brexit it wanted but kept a foot in Europe.
Europe would have kept most of the English trade, but without a pain in the neck English government as an obstreperous EU member.
Scotland would have got an amenable and consensual dissolution of the Union, full EU Membership, but special dispensation status to handle English trade that was EU compliant, and function as a buffer state, making sure that English trade passing through Scotland’s ports and on to mainland Europe was up to standard. Scottish ports and railways could have upgraded their freight handling facilities and had Europe and Westminster both paying for it.
Everybody would get most of what they wanted, everybody would save face and get along like adults, and the damage caused by Brexit would have been vastly reduced.
Just goes to show what a valuable asset Scotland represents that Westminster cannot imagine life standing on it’s own two feet without Scotland’s resources to plunder.
Yi ken… The Scotswomen and Scotsmen on the City Centre bus, commenting here, can see what’s wrong with the governance of our country.
The problem we have is that those of our ‘countrypeople’ who are elected to positions, earning 3 to 4 times my salary, to sort out the governance, are so up their own agendas that they are forgetting about the voters who bestowed upon them, their comfortable (financially) employment.
How do we get them back into line, reading from the same page as us?
I don’t have a clue but maybe Alba can threaten their comfort.
@ Breeks 20 May, 2021 at 8:16 pm.
“England would have got the Brexit it wanted but kept a foot in Europe” But what about the 30% of previous Scottish SNP and Labour Voters who also Voted Leave ? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14950013.36-snp-labour-supporters-backed-brexit-finds-survey/
“Just goes to show what a valuable asset Scotland represents that Westminster cannot imagine life standing on it’s own two feet without Scotland’s resources to plunder.”
Hahahhahahahhahahahahaha Still not understanding what your very own SNP Scot Gov calulates and publishes itself. Even when Holyrood Parliments own economic advisors explain it to you themselves. You don’t even need to read it as they made it into a Podcast https://archive.is/cXNcE
@Stuart MacKay 20 May, 2021 at 6:37 pm
“Start sending people on extended placements to Norway, Estonia, even New Zealand. Find out how they solved their problems. That would bring a huge injection of ideas and allow us to break out of the lethargic strait-jacket that represents the British way of doing things”
I’m afraid that what your not understanding yet is that the “British Problem” that you are not understanding yet is something called “Socialism” keep at it and the Penny may drop yet. https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
@Confused 20 May, 2021 at 6:28 pm
“The SNP are not interested in debunking any unionist economic arguments – if they did the job too well they would have an intolerable demand for independence”
Well that would be hard to do considering SNP have owned GERS since 2007 and have modified them every year and still can’t fill the overspend deficit. Can’t you see all the designs for GERS the SNP have made themselves since 2007 here ? How hard can it be ? https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20191010063153/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
“Richard Murphy at least was useful in explaining how our “deficit” arose.” LOL He didn’t he just made up crap to fill your heads with. https://twitter.com/rab_boyce/status/1165326988405592065
“And even if Scotland was to become poorer outside the UK, I would still leave; but it won’t”
LOL You are Funny , clueless but funny. https://theferret.scot/claim-scotland-pays-out-more-than-gets-back-false/
Dan says:
20 May, 2021 at 7:03 pm
@ paul
Ach, you might have corrected the typo and removed the bizarre un-required “and” whilst quoting me.
I think most people reading the the thread would have caught this egregious typo, and realised it was referring to the tireless ‘don’.
In my defence I was painfully distracted whilst typing and didn’t preview afore submitting as the towel wing clips were digging into ma bawz. ?
Have to say the last time I used a sanitary towel was way back when I was a man, and to be honest it fitted much better in my arse crack.
For readers with enquiring minds… It was used after my doctor had wielded a scalpel to cut and bleed out a couple of particularly painful haemorrhoids prior to competing in a weekend of bumpy offroad motorsport.
No pain, no gain they say, but thought to let folk know as they rarely hear about the less glamorous side of motorsport and what competitors have to put themselves through in their efforts to win.
I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
@akenaton 20 May, 2021 at 5:38 pm
“If an Indy ref is not agreed, voted upon and won within two years Scotland will remain in the UK for the foreseeable future.
The reason is staring us in the face, there is not one major Party working for Independence. Sturgeon wants and will get more power unless removed by legal means, but in the meantime she does not want the problems which will be implicit in the process.
The act of leaving the EU will make the UK an economic powerhouse, in a few years and when the UK economy is booming Independence will have few supporters
Salmond was right about one thing, we should be making the case for Independence right now while the UK is weak, who says that we must fight fair?”
Some real sensible comment there for once , you are correct that no-one is working on another Indy Document , you just haven’t understood why yet it seems. There are some people here might see the truth soon if they look outside their bubbles but for others here any form of enconomic understanding will always go right over their heads. Read this carefully and consider how “Socialism ” works
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
Also https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/
@paul 20 May, 2021 at 6:08 pm
“I’d never thought I’d have to spring to R Murphy’s defence but he is perfectly sound on the economic basis for an independent Scotland.
I wouldn’t vouch for any other of his opinions, such as his furious promotion of owen smith (remember him? I think I might be the only one) being the acceptable tribune of the labour movement over J Corbyn.
He is also a consistently ungracious cunt to any who offer criticism, or remind him his current positions on economics lean heavier on enlightenment and effort other than his.
But as far as Scotland goes, he’s been OK.”
No Sorry Paul , I can see why he might appear credible but he is just a bluffer , a complete buffoon in fact, That makes basic errors and just continues to repeat them endlessly until people get bored and leave him alone. Murphy wanted interested in scotland until Labour dumped him for haveing “little or not macro-economic knowledge” after which he looked around for others to manipulate and saw Ecots Nats who he knew were being misled so deceied to join in the game to promote his own Youtube channels (Advertising money comes rolling in the more people he can guide to them)
Not near as smart as you think though. https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1164441429973884928
https://twitter.com/rab_boyce/status/1165326988405592065
DON…..learn to spell before pontificating on this site FFS!
Kapelmeister @5:11
Sturgeon and her entire cabinet are a classic example of The Peter Principle…
“The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organisational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a level of respective incompetence.”
Pretty well sums up the whole Circus. Send clowns…
@Breeks 20 May, 2021 at 5:17 pm
“The real ‘funny’ thing is, even IF the GERS figures weren’t manipulated”
They are not , your own Governments financiel advisors tell you that. https://archive.is/cXNcE
“even if the McCrone Report wasn’t released”
McCrone was only a Civil Servant so his memo was subject to the 30 year rule that all civil service documents were subject to at the time, Gavin McCrone himlself explains why it wasn’t released right here though , do stick with it right to the end. https://archive.is/gpVek
“Deleted economically illiterate havering….”
“IF the UK Union didn’t exist, why would you invent it?”
Well its that thing called Socialism that you still don’t seem to be understanding, by the time I have typed this you might be able to get Akenaton to explain it to you because it appears to me that they Penny is just about to drop for Him/Her already. https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
This article in the Telegraph is the key to understanding how the UK economy functions compared to Germany of all places , if people can understand this then many other things may make more sense to them
https://archive.is/bB3zK
paul says: at 9:46 pm
“I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.”
TBH that is not an uncommon response I get. But you may have overlooked the start of my post which you initially quoted from where I state:
“OT Found a bit of time for more transing”
Alert readers may have observed that I’ve recently been Self IDing as Trans / curious and experimenting with the functional viability of it all. I thought my Rainbow avatar would’ve made that obvious…
TBH it’s a bit of a head fuck. If I become a Transwoman and still want to procreate to help increase the population of Scottish bairns, then as far as I can work out I need to source a partner that’s as rare as rocking horse shit, in the form of a lesbian whose willing to mate with my woman brained but male body.
Now I am beginning to think there’s as much chance of that happening as there is of Nicola Sturgeon holding a referendum.
@ robertknight
Meet the NuSNP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
@Dan
Thanks for the link – now I really am f***ing depressed!
James Che
You are right about the opposition of the Scottish people to the signing of the Treaty of Union in 1707.
Daniel Defoe, the author of Robinson Crusoe, was in Edinburgh at the time as an agent of the English government and he wrote that there was not a man in favour of it.
It was signed in secret in a High Street cellar as the Edinburgh crowd sought it to prevent the signing and it was smuggled out of the city the following day.
The bribes paid to the handful of aristocrats (rogues) has been well recorded.
The Marquis of Queensberry who was the main driver for the Union was paid off with £40,000 pounds. Some lesser beings sold their country for less than £100.
Some were honourable. The Duke of Hamilton fought against it, but was outnumbered by the rogues.
@Fireproofjim
“Some were honourable. The Duke of Hamilton fought against it, but was outnumbered by the rogues.”
Another of those against was Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun, whose dying words almost a decade after the Union were:
“Lord have mercy on my poor country that is so barbarously oppressed.”
I wonder if he’s still birling in his grave…
Don says:
20 May, 2021 at 10:30 pm
This article in the Telegraph is the key to understanding….
This article in the Telegraph is the key to understanding Don and all the crap he comes out with…. He a Telegraph reader.
Don says:
20 May, 2021 at 10:30 pm
McCrone was only a Civil Servant so his memo was subject to the 30 year rule that all civil service documents were subject to at the time, Gavin McCrone himlself explains why it wasn’t released right here…
That’s utter bullshit Don. Gavin McCrone is lying.
Since you’re too lazy to research and read the covering letter like I advised you, the letter attached to the 1974 McCrone Report and signed by Gavin McCrone, I’ll save you the effort and quote the relevant line…
“ When my paper was written it was classified “secret” and given only a most restricted circulation in the Scottish Office because of the extreme sensitivity of the subject. I am copying it now to Leo Pliatzky, Dick Ross, Jim Hamilton, John Liverman and Stuart Scott Whyte.
R G L McCrone
It’s getting pretty tedious putting proof in front of you Don, written there indelibly, in black and white with 47 years provenance. It’s almost like you can’t handle the truth Don and just don’t want to hear it.
Meg merrilees.
Indeed meg, Robert Peffer’s had a brilliant way of explaining the treaty of the union, sadly I am only just learning technology, and never had the chance to converse with him,
I admired the way he had the imagination to think outside the box, to see things others missed, and persist with logic.
That is why I ask for any unionist to post as proof, the names of the millions of Scots whom signed or registered to vote for the treaty of the union in 1707.
I will even be lenient and ask for just 2 and a half million signatures.
The Scottish population to this day are not signed up for or to the treaty of the union,
Nor have they ever voted to join the treaty of the union to this very day.
I hear the unionist shout but you did in 2014,
As I recall the referendum question did not ask us if we wished to join the treaty of the union in 2014.
“We” The people have never been asked that question, in Scotland.
Fact, you cannot leave something like the treaty of the union if we were never in it.
Fact, you cannot remain? In something like the treaty of the union if you were never in it, in the first instance.
I like Facts, and one history fact that cannot be denied is to this day The sovereign Scots have never voted to be in the treaty of the union. Or voted to sell their country to England.
A few rogue Scottish Con men made up of elite gentlemen committed themselves to a personal business contract with a few English gentlemen, which they named The treaty of the union. Money/ finances exchanged hands for a sale.
The sale of a country that did not officially belong to them personally. They had no receipt, proof, or evidence of ever buying Scotland from the sovereign Scots.
The country belonged not only to the Scots but the sovereign nation of the Scots as a whole.
No one person as a individual could lay a claim on a sovereign nation. And the Scots as a sovereign nation of people were held above monarchs.
The sovereign Scots and their country are not officially or legally bound in writing or by any means, joined in The Treaty of the Union.
However the few rogue Scottish elite would be.
Don spouted @10:30PM,
“They are not , your own Governments financiel advisors tell you that.”
Your link is an article for the Fraser of Allander Institute. They aren’t financial advisors to the SG, individuals from the FAI “provide guidance” to a couple of committees. That is not the same thing at all.
Meanwhile, to go with the comedy of that podcast, their linked FAQ on GERS (https://archive.is/cGNRy ) includes both,
“The data that feeds into the spending side of GERS are predominantly real numbers and not estimates.”
and
“Non-identifiable expenditure consists of spending on matters such as defence and debt interest, with data only collected on a UK-level. Because such expenditure is spent for the benefit of everyone in the UK, GERS estimates a proportion apportioned to Scotland’s spending. This is one part of the GERS numbers that attracts controversy. For example, Scotland is allocated a population share of UK defence expenditure, irrespective of where the spending takes place.”
If you ever bother to compare the GERS figures against the pocket money given to Holyrood in the budget you will see that in sectors which are completely devolved to Holyrood, the GERS figures are ALWAYS noticeably higher. So pardon us for being sceptical of London’s honesty, especially it is a noted fact that their creation is EXACTLY to show Scotland as being dependent on the UK.
https://archive.is/Vg2ju
No doubt you’ll whinge about the source but I suppose if it weren’t true, Lang would have taken action against both the author and the National, right? Right?
And your telegraph article is a joke. Literally. It even signs off with the disclaimer of
“A quick note for economists and other nit-pickers: yes, I know this is an incredibly crude and simplified exercise that ignores any number of issues and rests on some heroic assumptions.”
For a start, London’s figures on tax generation are heavily influenced for starters by the inclusion of … pretty much every major international business based in the UK having the brass plaques there. The business makes money across the whole of the UK, the tax is collected in London.
The whole London/UK against Germany/EU analogy is like comparing 2 different apples to the entire grocery aisle of your favourite supermarket.
GERS is a distraction, unionist whatabouttery. It’s an information piece to identify known-knowns and known-unknowns in the Scottish economy and will be irrelevant by the 1st anniversary of independence.
@Breeks 20 May, 2021 at 11:38 pm
https://archive.is/gpVek
“That’s utter bullshit Don. Gavin McCrone is lying.”
Hahahhhahahahhahahhahha When faced with truth from someone direct you then choose to ignore the mans own words and produce your own version of a conspiracy theory instead …hahhhahahah Very Good. Not.
There is a problem solving tool for working out what is true and what isn’t called Occams Razor ” Occam’s razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct.” Yet people like you ignore all the truths around that are staring you in face and just make up your own garbage to try to ignore truth instead. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Occams-razor
@Breeks 20 May, 2021 at 11:22 pm
https://archive.is/bB3zK
This article in the Telegraph is the key to understanding….
“This article in the Telegraph is the key to understanding Don and all the crap he comes out with…. He a Telegraph reader.”
No, the problem once again is that you just don’t want to be faced with truths you don’t like. How hard is ot to simply Google “Fiscal Transfers” ? https://www.scotfact.com/fiscal-transfers#:~:text=Fiscal%20transfers%20occur%20where%20public,well%20as%20a%20regional%20level.
@Balaaargh 21 May, 2021 at 12:06 am
“GERS is a distraction, unionist whatabouttery. It’s an information piece to identify known-knowns and known-unknowns in the Scottish economy and will be irrelevant by the 1st anniversary of independence.”
Another of the clueless then that thinks they know more than the SNP’s own Margaret Cuthbert , ? You people really can’t face the tough truth. Pay proper attention to what she tells you here FFS
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
And yet again the evidence on the Scot Gov own website of all the SNP’s own designs for GERS since 2007 when they were elected https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20191010063153/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
“The director of the institute is Professor Graeme Roy, a former Senior Economic Adviser and head of the First Minister’s Policy Unit under Nicola Sturgeon.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_of_Allander_Institute
Don,
Occam’s razor tells me that the simple explanation for your ideas and arguments regarding independence is that you are an imbecile.
@Balaaargh 21 May, 2021 at 12:06 am
================================================
Box S.1: GERS Frequently Asked Questions
“Q: Who produces GERS?
A: GERS is produced by Scottish Government statisticians. It is designated as a National Statistics product, which means that it is produced independently of Scottish Ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Statistics. This means the statistics have been found to meet user needs, to be methodologically sound, explained well and produced free of political interference.”
https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-gers/
Do NOT feed trolls as they will become OGRES and will remain, as will their layers of deceit and STINK !
@Balaaargh 21 May, 2021 at 12:06 am
“For a start, London’s figures on tax generation are heavily influenced for starters by the inclusion of … pretty much every major international business based in the UK having the brass plaques there. The business makes money across the whole of the UK, the tax is collected in London.”
More BS from you , your own SNP Scot Gov states clearly that Taxes are NOT collected via HQ addresses.
———————————————
Corporation Tax page 11
” Methodology
In general, GERS apportions a share of UK revenues from corporation taxes based on the economic activity undertaken in Scotland and not the location of companies’ headquarters.
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2020/08/gers-detailed-methodology-2019-20/documents/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/gers-detailed-revenue-methodology-2019-20/govscot%3Adocument/GERS%2B2019-20%2B-%2BDetailed%2BRevenue%2BMethodology.pdf
I get bored awful easy, so I’m giving this a rest for a while, maybe see some new material when I return, if not then I will probably just fade away for good
Don.
Still not dealing with wether or not you can provide evidence and proof of millions of sovereign Scots signing, voting or joining the treaty of the union in 1707.
We’re not talking about those few self elected Scots whom signed the treaty as a personal business deal here, were talking about the millions of Scots as a sovereign nation
That would be the proof and facts you would need for us to take the treaty of the union as a legal union, not a created entity by a few elites doing business for profit and personal assets.
Where is the evidence that this vote ever happened in Scotland. By the whole nation of Scotland.
it’s deja vu all over again … you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink … nor can you beat sense into a donkey
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-limitations-of-gers/
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-barnett-future/
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-angels-share/
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-historical-debt/
the “skintland” article on darien and the union is also good
http://scotlandowntwofeet.blogspot.com/2014/05/john-jappy-hiding-truth.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8uLTaicIY
john jappy was a civil servant preparing financial reports in the 70s; he found his stuff would go “missing”
the SNP are a tranny rights group, not a party of national liberation; the party is stuffed with cronies of the murrells with dubious expertise in their fields; at least Alex Salmond has hung out with Stiglitz (whose fake Nobel is as good as anyones). The SNP are cosy with devolution, they accept GERS, they accept the historical debt, they obey.
GERS is essentially meaningless and deceptive, a poltical propaganda; it is further boosted by numerous accounting tricks – scottish trade and profits gets booked into corporate HQs, usually in London, thus making London seem to be “an engine of wealth creation” rather than -extraction-. The other famous con-job is that the north sea oil comes from another dimension called “ex regio”.
oil will not be treated by the UK as a Scottish export – OIL LANDED IN HOLLAND IS CREDITED AS AN EXPORT FROM LONDON AND THE SE OF ENGLAND. GREATER THAN 60% OF SCOTTISH OIL AND GAS IS TREATED IN THIS WAY TO PUT TOGETHER THE UK REGIONAL EXPORT STATISTICS
In a similar manner, most of SCOTTISH WHISKY IS CREDITED AS AN EXPORT FROM LONDON on the grounds that Diageo and other companies are registered for VAT there.
ELECTRICITY PRODUCED IN SCOTLAND IS CREDITED TO LONDON AND THE SE AND TO NE ENGLAND IF EXPORTED TO FRANCE OR IRELAND. DITTO GAS
There are several other gross inaccuracies in estimating Scottish exports arising from these adjustments. UK stats do not credit Scotland for trade in services (e.g. banking, tourism) and intangibles (e.g. financial investments or transfers)
But despite all of this Scotland has always had – even according to UK Government ‘adjusted’ statistics a MASSIVE QUARTERLY EXPORT SURPLUS
UK export statistics FOR ENGLAND SHOW MASSIVE QUARTERLY DEFICIT going back to the 1960’s – despite getting the credit for most of Scotland’s major exports using the adjustments above and others. WERE SCOTLAND’S REAL EXPORTS TO BE REFLECTED IN THE OFFICIAL STATISTICS THEY WOULD BE ‘OFF THE GRAPH’ COMPARED TO RUK
ALL PETROLEUM PRODUCTS CONSUMED IN SCOTLAND WERE TREATED IN THE STATISTICS AS AN IMPORT FROM ENGLAND.
Since 2019 the uk trade info site has a policy of suppression of data which is against the national interest. Data is still available on the site, but seems buried now – whether or not this was to stop people pulling up easy graphs and excel spreadsheets showing how fucking wealthy Scotland is … I could not possibly know.
But the central absurdity remains; if Scotland is such a drain, as the UK numbers would have you believe – why did Scotland not get cast adrift decades ago? And why has no enterprising conservative used this to drum up support in “middle england”. All those “whining jocks” and “subsidy junkies” … but we have to hang on to them … for “reasons”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/08/north-sea-oil-can-still-bargaining-chip-need/
I think it was Stuart MacKay here that said he’s created this website collating all the independence supporting blogs posted on a day:
https://www.voices.scot
I’ve started using it and I am finding really useful – I can just check out the headlines and choose which subject I want to read about (from yesterday good one from KennyMacKaskill on Grousebeater, and took note of a previous article from Pensioners for independence – a podcast with George Kerevan – that looks interesting) – anyhow, a good resource, so thanks for setting it up, Stuart (?).
@James Che.- 20 May, 2021 at 11:39 pm
“Money/ finances exchanged hands for a sale.
The sale of a country that did not officially belong to them personally. They had no receipt, proof, or evidence of ever buying Scotland from the sovereign Scots.
The country belonged not only to the Scots but the sovereign nation of the Scots as a whole.”
That’s an impressive house of cards you have built yourself there. Respect.
I don’t intend to accept your logic. For a start, it will mean I no longer own my house. I can’t do, because the people who I bought it from can’t have owned it either. Going right back to 1707, the land it stands on must have been stolen from the sovereign Scots. It will take forever to track them down and return my house and the ground it stands on to its rightful owner(s).
And I will be out on the streets.
Good news for renters though. They can stop paying their rent on the grounds that their landlord is effectively in receipt of stolen property. When they end up out on the streets, they can ask you to explain what went wrong.
But to be serious for a mo. Sometimes you just have to learn to accept the status quo and work with that. Stop banging on about things that happened 2 centuries before anybody alive today was even born, and identify how to change things from within the current contextual framework of reality.
“We wus robbed in 1707” resonates with just about nobody.
https://twitter.com/KingsSpotland/status/1395076450970214406
Whole lot of traiting going on…
John Main says:
21 May, 2021 at 7:44 am
“We wus robbed in 1707” resonates with just about nobody.
So you equate justice with resonance?
Breeks @ 7.50
Well there we have it , straight from the donkey’s mouth .
2 hoots not given for the – supposed- raison d’etre of the Party of which she is an elected member .
And STILL people won’t believe the evidence of their own eyes and ears .
Maybe when the full effects of the new Starstruck Chamber of Horrors that is the reshuffled Cabinet begin to be felt by the wider public perceptions will change .
We won’t be holding our breath though
Maybe it’s the influx of left-leaning political careerists since 2015, but, I see the present-day SNP as being like Scottish Labour in the heyday of Blair and Brown.
They are absolutely convinced the opposition has been ground into the dust and they are untouchable. So, it is all aboutfeathering their own nest and not giving two hoots about the wishes of the people who put them where they are.
Personal issues are being promoted beyond the greater good. This will all end in tears for Scotland.
‘I don’t intend to accept your logic.’
And I wont accept your lack of it.
‘Stop banging on about things that happened 2 centuries before anybody alive today was even born’
Some things that happened before affects us now in real terms. Constitutional matters tend to be long term and often older than a mere few centuries. Given that it is possible to change constitutional arrangements made in the past your statement is total nonsense.
Try telling constitutional lawyers in the US to just forget about things from 2 centuries ago.
I used to think that people had reached peak gullible when it came to trusting the SNP.
Then the Covid narrative came along.
Don says:
20 May, 2021 at 9:58 pm
@paul 20 May, 2021 at 6:08 pm
“I’d never thought I’d have to spring to R Murphy’s defence but he is perfectly sound on the economic basis for an independent Scotland.
I wouldn’t vouch for any other of his opinions, such as his furious promotion of owen smith (remember him? I think I might be the only one) being the acceptable tribune of the labour movement over J Corbyn.
He is also a consistently ungracious cunt to any who offer criticism, or remind him his current positions on economics lean heavier on enlightenment and effort other than his.
But as far as Scotland goes, he’s been OK.”
No Sorry Paul , I can see why he might appear credible but he is just a bluffer , a complete buffoon in fact, That makes basic errors and just continues to repeat them endlessly until people get bored and leave him alone. Murphy wanted interested in scotland until Labour dumped him for haveing “little or not macro-economic knowledge” after which he looked around for others to manipulate and saw Ecots Nats who he knew were being misled so deceied to join in the game to promote his own Youtube channels (Advertising money comes rolling in the more people he can guide to them)
Not near as smart as you think though. https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1164441429973884928
https://twitter.com/rab_boyce/status/116532698840559206
Well if that’s what you want to think, go ahead.
You have not provided any argument, just a load of SM gossip and bollocks.
But keep me entertained.
Tell me about the basic errors
Kirsty Blackman does give two hoots about Scotland being in the union. She very much wants Scotland in the union. At least for as long as she’s getting her £1600 a week out of Scotland being in the union.
@Breeks
Thanks for the KingsSpotland Twitter link.
Gave me a laugh…
“Changes to SNP front bench”
More like “Rearranged deckchairs on Titanic”
John Main says:
21 May, 2021 at 7:44 am
@James Che.- 20 May, 2021 at 11:39 pm
“Money/ finances exchanged hands for a sale.
The sale of a country that did not officially belong to them personally. They had no receipt, proof, or evidence of ever buying Scotland from the sovereign Scots.
The country belonged not only to the Scots but the sovereign
……
“We wus robbed in 1707” resonates with just about nobody.
It certainly resonates with me, the transformation of the public sector into a slush fund for the party of the ruling class, grates heavily.
I truly envy your contentment
J.o.e says:
21 May, 2021 at 9:09 am
” I used to think that people had reached peak gullible when it came to trusting the SNP.
Then the Covid narrative came along.”
Indeed J.o.e . And Sturgeon , like the good obedient Globalist she is – and every other Western leader -is in total lockstep with the Master Narrative and will use it ruthlessly to justify every shite decision she makes . Number One being ” now is not the time ” for ANYTHING to further our cause
May I recommend Your for Scotland – very , very distressing for Biology and Scotland.
Socrates MacSporran says:
21 May, 2021 at 9:07 am
…This will all end in tears for Scotland.
Not for Scotland. It’s just another postponement of the inevitable. Scotland has suffered worse than these rancid scumbags and endured.
But I don’t think it will end well for the Sturgeon and her clique of feckless charlatans. Where do you run and hide when you’ve betrayed your own people and sold your Nation down the river? Give it time. The guilt will consume them, like a worm in their brain. Sturgeon might save herself by fucking off to America, but the nobodies beneath her will have to live with the consequences here in Scotland.
The theme of the Da Vinci Code is that the Holy Grail, written in French san gréal, was in truth sang real or “Royal Blood”, and the Templar Kinights didn’t hold the secret of the Holy Grail, but instead a terrestrial royal bloodline descended from Christ, which they cloaked in secrecy and smuggled out of harms way to safety.
I make no comment on the Da Vinci Code, but I feel in my bones that the ALBA Party has done what the Templar Knights did… a noble defence against all odds that went greatly unappreciated at the time, but it actually rescued and kept safe everything that would later become vital. The ALBA party has actually removed the essential essence of Scottish Independence from the clutches of the faithless SNP, and currently have it safe and hidden, and well guarded by the faithful.
Who knows what will happen in the next few months, and what the SNP will do when they realise the essence of Scottish Independence is not where they thought it was, and no longer with them. It’s gone.
This is the time when I think we must trust ALBA. Believe in ALBA and that man Salmond, but not as a personality cult, but because he is “the” master strategist in the game. Otherwise, I fear, all is lost.
Sturgeon and the other imposters now ruling the dead zone need reminded of the need for urgent action
“Time after time, on matters great and small, we are still standing on the sidelines, mutely accepting what is decided elsewhere instead of raising our voices and making our own choices. Scotland’s much vaunted partnership of Jonah and the whale. “- Winnie Ewing
In fact these words should be carved into that British Labour abomination at the foot o the mile in huge fuckin letters and not a fuckin chalk piece in sight.
@Breeks (9.43) –
All of us who’ve posted here over the years will have been long-since marked as ‘persons of interest’ by the intelligence services, and no big deal, that’s their job.
But as Rev Stu often reminded us, less than 1% of readers ever comment. So there’s a huge number of people who are very familiar with the developments since indyref1 and aren’t daft. They know what’s happening. And they don’t make a noise about it.
How many of them joined Alba? No idea. How many would vote for Alba next year in council elections because they cannot and will not forgive Sturgeon/SNP? Again, no idea. The vote remains personal and private and many respect that, even to the extent of avoiding discussion with friends and family.
They are the folk who ‘carry’ what remains of hope for the independence cause. They don’t all have to declare themselves for us to place faith in them.
😉
Waffle waffle, for the last three or four hundred posts.
1 Get rid of Sturgeon and anyone supporting her from the Scottish parliament. This will involve people in public life sharing what they know and have evidence for with the legal authorities.
Alex Salmond knows all about the facts surrounding the campaign to have him side lined or even jailed…..he and his lawyers must come forward, he already has a platform on RT and if his disclosures are piquant enough the media will not be long in poking their snouts in the shit.
2 Start right now to explain in words of no more than three syllables to the Scottish electorate, exactly how an Independent Scotland will operate.
The border, Return to the EU (good luck with that), currency, banking, fishing (if we do return). accrued debt, Coulport, immigration, education (which is currently our biggest problem)
and much much more. These issues are simply not addressed realistically on this forum, where we seem happier fighting old battles, hating the English and discussing in detail three hundred year old declarations
Get fucking real!
And so it goes on…
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/05/chilling-not-in-a-good-way/
Originally published at Moon of Alabama
DEFENDING CRAIG MURRAY
There is a foreign doctrine that has invaded and is establishing itself in scotland. It practises total information warfare against the people. And it is that doctrine that hopes to crucify Craig Murray.
Everywhere in Great Britain that you look you can see that doctrine promulgated. It is no less ubiquitous than the Union flag.
Craig Murray went against that doctrine, and it is for this that he must be raised on the cross.
Craig has explained his motivation many times. He learned of what had been done to Alex Salmond, and he did not like what he found. He decided to do something about it, and so became the one unique journalist who published to the world the case for the defence in real time. He did so with enormous success – those who read his reports expected Alex Salmond to be acquited, those who did not expected Salmond to go to gaol for the rest of his life. Only those who read Craig Murray could be said to be informed citizens.
After two days of reporting the case for the defence he was expelled and excluded from the court, and no explanation ever given.
Total information warfare.
Back to that doctrine so offended by the impertinence of Craig Murray. You see it displayed prominently every time a British Minister speaks to the public, because s/he speaks for the privy council. You see it prominent over the courts in England and Wales. You see it over the new civil service hub in Edinburgh. You do not (yet) see it outside the Scottish courts. It proclaims
It means “Shame on him who thinks ill of it” in the archaic, and more realistically “It is you who is in trouble if you don’t like what we do” in the contemporary.
Craig thought ill of what was done to Alex Salmond. He went against this IN SCOTLAND. He went against the total information warfare conducted by the privy council and provided honest information to the general public. He allowed us all to witness the poison and pus that oozes from every pore of the privy council and its servants. He is, in every sense of the word, a whistleblower.
We have seen a pattern develop over recent decades. A scandal in public life erupts, a whistleblower emerges to tell the truth and name the names. Then, after a long and confusing process producing much heat and very little light, the whistleblower ends up in prison and the criminals go free.
And so it goes with Craig. It is Craig who is in trouble, not the criminals.
After Julian, Craig is the last of the heroic whistleblowers.
We have let down so many brave souls who risk everything and get punished. Who will ever try to save us all again when they NEVER get support where it matters. What’s the point?
Craig Murray is a red line for Scottish society.
Win OR Lose.
The judge, Lady Dorrian, appears to have gone crazy and has told at least two provable lies. Independent observers have detected a personal animosity within her judgements against Craig. Lady Dorrian’s mistress is apparently very upset.
https://www.judiciary.uk/about-the-judiciary/the-judiciary-the-government-and-the-constitution/oaths/
This doctrine of Honi soit qui mal y pense has no place in Scottish life, and no roots in Scottish history. It is entirely English, and is the motto of the Order of the Garter in England. It represents a nation in which the king/queen is sovereign and not the people.
One of the persons who proclaims this doctrine is Prince William, a fully fledged Knight of the Garter since June 2008.
By happenstance William is to attend the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland commencing this weekend. Though he wears his Scottish guise as Earl of Strathearn he remains a Knight of the Garter. He is one of those hellbent on crucifying Craig Murray on nonsense charges. If he can do it to Craig Murray he can do it to any of us.
The Church of Scotland is the final defender of the lives and morals of the Scottish people. Under the Act of Union (1707) the church has real political power should it choose to use it. The Church of Scotland can provide sanctuary for Craig Murray and enquire of the Earl of Strathearn as to the grounds for imposing his doctrine in Scotland against all tradition and against all logic. It can do so this weekend.
It should do so.
Posted by: John Cleary | May 20 2021 22:21 utc | 135
Contrary,
Thanks for the mention. The site is still a “work-in-progress” but I’m pleased you found it useful.
There are three ideas behind the site:
1. Put all the indy blogs in one place so it’s easy to find something interesting to read. The focus is on individuals rather than organisations or NGOs but there’s no real line drawn on who gets included or not.
2. Get more people blogging. Building an audience is hard so I’m hoping that any new blogs that get added to the site will attract more attention than they otherwise would out there in the internet wilderness.
3. Open the door for people who only want to write occasionally. Not everybody has the time or energy to write a lot but that does not mean they have nothing useful to say. A site like voices would be good for the occasional essayist who might only post something a couple of times a year and still attract a readership.
The important part is to get more people listening to more people. I think that will go a long way to immunising folks from propaganda, regardless of where it’s coming from.
The site will host blogs from anywhere as long as they talk about independence. However it does show it’s colours a bit – particularly in the short descriptions for each topic and the absence of sites like Bella Caledonia and a couple of other blogs which are too woke for my tastes.
If anyone knows of any blogs that are missing please let me know – there’s a link on the site to send me an email. I had never heard of Grumpy Scottish Man before I went digging around for blogs. I’m hoping there are a few more gems like him, waiting to be discovered.
Same goes for any suggestions. The site is still evolving so I’m open to ideas. For example, one thing I want to do is an events site that listed local meetings, marches, crowdfunders, and anything related to independence. I think that would, in it’s own way, up the level of organisation in the movement a bit.
Apologies to one and all , particularly for having to work at scanning as you sing along!
Puff the magic Dragon was once the SNP
It promised us in Scotland that we would soon be free!
All the folk in Scotland loved that rascal Puff
And marched and sang and cheered and lots of other stuff.
Together they would march and sing their freedom songs
And frightened politicians as they strode along
Though dragons live for ever and some dreams never die
Procrastinating leaders ensured great plans went awry.
All the folk stopped singing a depression then set in
And it seemed no matter how we strive we can never win.
Then Puff changed into ALBA and hope sprung up anew
But media and SNP made sure it went askew.
Puff that Magic Dragon was once the SNP
Though now it seems contented in just picking up its fee.
It messes with Biology , free speech and policing too
And sits there in contempt of the Saltire white and blue.
They say we’ll have our freedom but not yet for a while
There’s covid and economy before they’ll even try
It seems that other countries can do many things at once
Maybe it is just Scotland that likes to be a dunce.
Anon!
As I stated at the time Salmond, made a colossal miscalculation with his SNP 1 Alba 2 cunning plan.
It culminated in a complete disaster strengthening Sturgeon’s hand and he found himself painted as a villain or a rapist.
He should have come out with all guns blazing and going after the SNP hierarchy while he still had people fully united behind him.
His lovey dovey approach to the SNP caused fractures even on this forum and Sturgeon like the survivalist that she is homed in with the tar brush and using the new anti male climate to further discredit him with Scottish woman.
We must start to realise that in the Scottish electorate we are not dealing with brain surgeons or experts in political theory, but a mob who are divisive by nature and have be well and truly indoctrinated by the health, care and education sector into believing that all their misfortunes are the fault of someone else and for Nationalists that is like attempting to jump Beecher’s Brook on a donkey
@ Dorothy Devine
Just reading the article you mention now. Here’s the link.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/05/21/here-is-shirley-she-hopes-to-confuse-your-kids/
Plus another.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbox-the-invisible-woman/
Ake – Salmond naively or optimistically hoped Sturgeon would see the sense in working for the movement. That she chose party over country , speaks volumes about her.
I tell you something. Next May independence will not have moved one inch. All the SNP eejits telling us to pipe down and suck it up. Will soon learn that we were right , that Sturgeon is a phoney and a feartie.
Unfortunately Alba have to build slowly, and disgruntled people will come over in the council elections. After that hopefully things will begin to work in our favour.
Remember the main party in Ireland never won independence. It was a wee party called Sinn Fein. The Irish party were dithering about with Home Rule and playing by the British rules. Sinn Fein ended up winning 91% of the Irish seats.
@Akenaton
What I find interesting is just how much nonsense people throw out when it comes to a nations ability to sustain itself.
The Brexit issue was a prime example with most people on here talking about catastrophe – in the similar way the Unionists talk about Scottish independence.
Its all horse shit. Things work out because its better to trade than to not, regardless of the nonsense spouted by 3rd rate politicians like Merkel, Johnson, Barnier (is he even a politician)?
Politicians are merely noise. Its mutual economic requirements that ultimately have the last say.
Unfortunately the ‘negative effects’ of Brexit have been overshadowed by the Corona fraud. But here’s the thing – we had Brexit AND the fraudulent shut down of our economy and things are still running, just.
The globalist system wants everyone to believe that no nation on earth can exist without international institutions having a hand in shaping the outcomes for their people.
Its horse shit. Completely.
akenaton – totally agree, but there are no attractive answers which is why the whole independence campaign is now slanted towards issues of identity, and feeding a sense that an old grievance needs righted. It’s a bit like a side-plot of Game of Thrones at times.
Worse still there are many with so little of an understanding of the degree to which the economy is the bedrock on which they stand that they angrily state that we should be independent no matter what – as if the declaration of arbroath is just as relevant today as it was back when it was ..eh declared.
They don’t see a link between the economy and the livelihoods of regular scottish people, our NHS, our schools, our benefits system, pensions, mortgages/pensions (i.e. the Scottish pound) ad infinitum.
It’s the ultimate footballification of politics – indyref is seen as a league that needs won, with little understanding of the seismic shock that would follow – not ‘could’ but ‘would’. 10 lost years economically is only ‘worth it’ if you have nothing to lose. And if you have nothing to lose you have nothing to contribute to an economy that would desperately need wealth creators.
A la letters page on Viz: Scottish Independence supporters: tired of waiting for a Yes vote? Just create a bubble of a few like minded people, get pissed for 3 days with the curtains drawn and then, on the 4th day, open the curtains and notice that everything is still the same in your own life, but everything you pay for just bung the shopkeeper an extra few quid, then drive to carlisle but park at the border for an hour before completeing your journey.
Stu – for the love of goodness block me – I have moved from a 2014 YES from a soft and now a HARD NO, beyond convincing.
‘As I stated at the time Salmond, made a colossal miscalculation with his SNP 1 Alba 2 cunning plan.
It culminated in a complete disaster strengthening Sturgeon’s hand and he found himself painted as a villain or a rapist.’
I don’t think he did. I think he knew what he was doing. He was never going to get that ‘super majority’ with the SNP because even if he got the votes he knew the SNP would try to find ways around working with ALBA.
Its theatre for the public. The SNP were shown to be the uncooperative party and they will also show themselves to not fulfill their pledges.
This is about the destruction of the SNP image in peoples minds
Aye Jock, I admire your confidence, but do we want to live in a country like Eire? … and just look what Sinn Fein have morphed into.
The South of Ireland seems to have been fully Europeanised.
Only their folk culture remains and simply for its value in attracting tourists and making money for a few auld box players and fiddlers.
Mind you we’ve got a fair few fiddlers here, but they’re the wrong kind of fiddlers :0(
..and I am NOT a unionist. I don’t give a shit about flags. I care about living in an economy that’s lets me and my family thrive. That’s why I voted against Brexit – not because I feel European.
Just been looking into the origin of the phrase ‘Two hoots’ etc.
Not as interesting as the origin of ‘cracker’ & ‘hillbilly’ however I thought that a form of protest could be giving ‘two hoots’ of your horn to show you care.
‘Give two hoots for Independence’
Two hoots
‘It might refer specifically to the hoot of an owl but some examples suggest it’s more general than that, most likely harking back to two senses known in the seventeenth century: either a loud cry or a shout of disapproval (as in hoots of derision).
A real hoot
an amusing situation or person
Hoot
Hoot your horn
To cry out or shout, especially in disapproval or derision.
J.o.e says:
21 May, 2021 at 11:03 am
I don’t think he did. I think he knew what he was doing. He was never going to get that ‘super majority’ with the SNP…
I don’t think it was a mistake. Alex Salmond did everything in his power to successfully present Scotland with an achievable goal of securing a Supermajority and leverage over a recalcitrant SNP and giving Scotland a deliverable route to Independence. Fact.
The fact that opportunity was squandered, indeed sabotaged by the SNP when it should properly have been seized with both hands, is in no part whatsoever down to Alex Salmond.
He led to Scotland to the water, again, so don’t blame Alex Salmond that Scotland wouldn’t drink.
@Akenaton
Things had to get bad before people could wake up. As people wake up they will start to get angry and start to notice things they never did.
Thankfully the days of the Scottish independence movement being well-intentioned dreamers are ending.
The fools still exist but reality gets everyone in the end.
People come back from worse. My wife’s people survived hundreds of years of genocide from (insert group here) and then survived brutal communism.
They are still here. Their nation still exists. They have not disappeared.
@ Ruby
Hoots Mon!
In years to come, etymologists will look back at the history and evolution of the word “woman”, as they try to grasp at what point and why, a new type of woman without hooters came to be.
This period once, details are established, will become known as The UnEnlightenment.
@Breeks
You misundestand me.
Alex Salmond was playing the political long game. He knew the SNP would not cooperate. While he obviously wanted as many seats as possible the main goal is the destruction of the SNP reputation. It has to be.
He did his part as a nationalist and a democrat. They didn’t. Unless he is far less smart than I give him credit for he has to know what the SNP are and that this election was not going to secure Scotland anything in terms of autonomy.
If ALBA had secured the requisite number of seats to provide a super majority the SNP would have avoided working with him based on the allegations that were made against him while talking about the impossibility of making moves for independence while ‘the covid situation persists’ (which it will until people get less gullible). They would have thrown anything at it. You know it. He knows it.
He played this well and the SNP did what was expected for all to see.
It obviously would have been more damaging if ALBA had managed to fully call their bluff by forcing them to make those excuses but we have what we have.
Round 1 goes to Alex Salmond I think.
Stuart MacKay says:
21 May, 2021 at 10:35 am
Contrary,
Thanks for the mention. The site is still a “work-in-progress” but I’m pleased you found it useful.
There are three ideas behind the site:
1. Put all the indy blogs in one place so it’s easy to find something interesting to read. The focus is on individuals rather than organisations or NGOs but there’s no real line drawn on who gets included or not.
2. Get more people blogging. Building an audience is hard so I’m hoping that any new blogs that get added to the site will attract more attention than they otherwise would out there in the internet wilderness.
3. Open the door for people who only want to write occasionally. Not everybody has the time or energy to write a lot but that does not mean they have nothing useful to say. A site like voices would be good for the occasional essayist who might only post something a couple of times a year and still attract a readership.
The important part is to get more people listening to more people. I think that will go a long way to immunising folks from propaganda, regardless of where it’s coming from.
……
You have both a good and great idea, and I wish you the best.
The problem J.o.e. is that Alex seems to have strengthened opposition among women to himself and any objections to Sturgeon, who is still nominally a woman despite her attacks on women’s rights.
I think he tried to appeal to the electorate over her head and it backfired badly.
The SNP is recognised wrongly as the voice of Nationalism, and Alba simply a distraction peopled by bravehearts and revolutionaries.
Don, can you explain this please.
https://twitter.com/natyesregistry/status/1393505394660683776/photo/1
True Scot,
“
Worse still there are many with so little of an understanding of the degree to which the economy is the bedrock on which they stand that they angrily state that we should be independent no matter what”
That’s me True Scot and strangely enough it’s you too.
But perhaps I’m wrong, maybe you do think that when a country brings forward policies that are detrimental to their national debt, that they should be stripped of their independence.
If so, could you please explain your criteria for the confiscation of their right to make their own decisions as I am genuinely interested in how your brain works.
If you have no other country falling foul of your personal rules and regulations regarding independence, tell me why you are a hypocrite.
If you still persist that Scotland is the only country that should not be independent for financial reasons then tell me this, if they have a surplus one year and a deficit the next, what do your rules say about the peaks and troughs of a country’s financial situation?
According to Lord Waldergrave and Hansard, (circa 1997), Scotland had contributed a surplus of many billions to the Union in the previous 20 years, should Scotland have been independent then?
Should countries only be allowed independence during “the good times”?
J.o.e says:
21 May, 2021 at 11:36 am
@Breeks
You misundestand me.
No, I got you J.o.e. or at least, that wasn’t the point I was making.
My point was that whether Alex Salmond made a great play, an ok play, or simply got it wrong, is in one sense academic, because without Alex Salmond, there wouldn’t have been any play at all.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you. I think Alex Salmond always aims high, so even a disappointing result still delivers material progress. He can also think on his feet and react very quickly to adversity. Sturgeon in stark contrast hasn’t progressed a single thing, by any degree, in seven years. He creates. She destroys.
Breeks, I supported Alex for years and would still support him as leader, but why on earth did he not realise that Sturgeon would act as she did….I certainly knew very well what her reaction to Alex’s proposal would be and I am not a politician.
First question I asked myself….What’s in it for her?
akenaton says:
21 May, 2021 at 11:48 am
The problem J.o.e. is that Alex seems to have strengthened opposition among women to himself and any objections to Sturgeon, who is still nominally a woman despite her attacks on women’s rights.
I honestly do not how to read, let alone question, that contribution.
I think he tried to appeal to the electorate over her head and it backfired badly.
Over her control over the media?
AS was denied any appeal to the electorate.
How did it backfire?
I’m here, and will continue.
The SNP is recognised wrongly as the voice of Nationalism, and Alba simply a distraction people
I think that is the plan
@Akenaton
Who says that Mr Salmond’s intention is to ultimately be leader of a strong ALBA party? Who says he is not just setting the foundations by making tactical plays against the SNP?
The SNP is currently considered the voice of Nationalism until its reputation is degraded enough. This election has done that in many more minds than previously.
Again – unless he is so naive to think the SNP actually work for the interests of Scottish independence then he cannot have expected to have the situation he apparently hoped for.
It was theatre.
The clique we have in power is anti-nationalist and criminally totalitarian to the core as he has strong experience of.
Im happy to be wrong on this. But the ‘victory’ from the election was cast iron proof that the SNP will not do what is necessary to put Scotland forward.
More proof to come and more pointing it out from Alba I think. Couple this with totalitarian laws incoming and the Scots will be provided with all the evidence they need.
Its frustrating how dumb people allow themselves to be and the extent of convincing they need to see the obvious but its the reality we face. I think a smart statesman would understand.
I also think a real statesman thinks beyond single election cycles.
J.o.e.
I’m with you on Salmond playing the long game. I think we all got caught up in the possibility of change but any strategist worth their salt would have known it was an uphill struggle – great if it paid off but not a big deal if it didn’t.
As Grump Scottish Man said – Alba won the election. That might seem a bit fanciful but when you have WGD saying it’s over for the SNP leadership if they don’t deliver a referendum by 2023 then clearly something significant has changed.
@Stuart Mackay –
re WGD, I’m probably not ‘objective’ because I despise the man more than I would’ve thought possible.
If he has changed his tune re the SNP leadership it’s because his future as a ‘commentator’ is at stake. The revelations here about his behaviour impacted his reader stats instantly and the replies to every tweet he’s done since last Wednesday have been like individual ashtray fires.
If he can limp on until 2023, waving his begging bowl all the while, he’ll come up with some other pish when it becomes clear there won’t be any referendum. He has no choice but to curry favour with as many as possible, telling them what they want to hear.
A total charlatan.
Dan says:
21 May, 2021 at 11:32 am
@ Ruby
Hoots Mon!
In years to come, etymologists will look back at the history and evolution of the word “woman”, as they try to grasp at what point and why, a new type of woman without hooters came to be.
This period once, details are established, will become known as The UnEnlightenment.
Reply
Hootenanny!
It’s a hoots and a half!
Things could get hoots confusing:
‘Hooter: extra large marijuana cigarette’
Is that a ‘hooter’ you’ve got in your pocket Mademoiselle?
Hi Breastplate – for me it’s not about the permission to be independent, which immediately feels like the language of grievance. It’s about the purpose of independence – which must be for prosperity. There’s not doubt that in the medium term Scotland could be economically succesful – we are not too small. However the focus of government, and the thrust of the independence argument do not suggest a realistic prospectus and timescale for prosperity – and when economies tank it’s those who have the least in society who will feel the most pain, while those with most in terms of wealth who tend to be the most mobile and could move elsewhere. I am honestly not trying to be a dick – so thanks for responding to be in a measured way. It is appreciated.
akenaton says:
21 May, 2021 at 11:55 am
Breeks, I supported Alex for years and would still support him as leader, but why on earth did he not realise that Sturgeon would act as she did…
Not a footie person, so if you’ll pardon the football analogy, Alex Salmond found the ball at his feet and laid on a beautiful cross right into the box, but “striker” Sturgeon wasn’t there to score. She was miles off the pace, screaming blue murder at him from the central line.
People are now blaming Salmond for the lack of a score, but he’s the playmaker creating opportunities. It’s bone idle prima Dona striker Sturgeon, poncing about and full of herself, who’s letting the side down, and I’m puzzled how any of her tantrum and dismal failure is seen as a reflection on Alex Salmond.
I think it’s fair to say if you offered Alex Salmond ANY chance of Scottish Independence delivered, he would take it in a heartbeat. Scottish Independence runs through Alex Salmond like Brighton Rock. To that extent I firmly believe he is incorruptible. Scotland first. Always.
Sturgeon? Yuk. Pass the sick bucket.
He’s a bit of controversy for you, Alex Salmond is finished as a Frontline “Face of Scotland” politician.
He just carries too much baggage regarding abuse against women.
I know he was found not guilty, but sadly the dirt has stuck.
Now, Alex Salmond as a backroom advisor is a different matter altogether.
He can tutor, guide, direct from behind the scenes. But as far as being the face of the YES Movement, they are finished.
We need to come to terms with that sad fact.
He is an easy target for any opposition Parties, even Sturgeon found him easy to attack, and she’s meant to be on our side.
The hunt should be on for someone to succeed Salmond.
It’s a painful topic, but it has to be dealt with head on. No use hiding behind the curtain pretending his court case never happened.
It did and it needs to be talked about.
Mr Salmond is, as they say in Politics, Toxic.
Where is our new white/black Knight?
I am facing the facts, I am facing reality.
And as far as the usual suspects go, please don’t hit me with your “Troll” bullshit.
Let’s hear your points of view.
Tell me where I have got this so wrong.
Don keyboard vomited @12:20AM,
“Another of the clueless then that thinks they know more than the SNP’s own Margaret Cuthbert , ? You people really can’t face the tough truth. Pay proper attention to what she tells you here FFS”,
Do you actually bother to watch or read your own links? Between the telegraph one and now this. This clip is Margaret Cuthbert saying, “there is a ton of data gathered and presented but no evidence to back it up.”
In what way does that relate my statement that GERS is of no relevance to an independent Scotland? In what way does that refute my point that GERS is opaque in its methodology?
I am well aware that the SNP SG have made multiple changes since 2007 to more accurately reflect the areas on which they control however, vast chunks of non-identifiable expenditure under the control of Westminster are opaquely ‘apportioned’ to Scotland. From where the taxes are raised. In London.
The figures within GERS are an absolutely disgusting indictment of the UK economy. They are not some idealistic economic vision of truth, they are a political creation to subdue first Scottish opposition to the union and subsequently expanded to denigrate every other part of the UK.
Breeks pointed out, “there is a contradiction with what McCrone said in 1974 and what he said in 2013” and your response was “You’re wrong, Occam’s razor!” WTF?!
Time and time again over the last couple of days (I’m always lurking), you ignore the points being made to you and deflect with new straw men and ad homimens. You start off all nicey-nicey and then just push the same old right wing tory propaganda. Repeating the same thing ad nauseum to a counter point doesn’t display you have any knowledge or understanding in any debate, it shows you’re only here to stir the shit.
Awa’ n’ bile yer heid.
Surely Hootentranny @Dan says at 11:32 am and @ Ruby says at 12:20 pm
🙂
Dave Somerville @ 12.45pm
Sadly, I have to concur with your post. It’s one which will be met with scorn by many, but, I believe you are correct.
The BBC, the mainstream Scottish media and, disgracefully, the ruling cabal inside the SNP has, I believe, been able to finish Scotland’s finest politician as a front-line leader.
As you say, we now need to find Eck’s successor as the face of the Independence Movement – given Sturgeon, by her refusal to take the fight forward, has forfeited what little right she ever had to be that face.
At the moment, I would think Kenny McAskill is the man in pole position to take-on Eck’s mantle. Hopefully, as ALBA becomes better-organised and recognised, a younger man or woman may come forward to become the new leader, this has to happen some time soon.
Meanwhile, hopefully Eck can continue to be a valuable influencer in driving policy and devising a strategy which will win us Indyref2, then winning that referendum.
Just scanned through the latest WGD blog.
Looks like something taken straight out of the 2014 archives I agree with ‘Gfaetheblock’ there’s nothing new.
“Gfaetheblock says:
May 20, 2021 at 11:03 pm
As a soft no, this is nothing new and nothing convincing. Two refs held, the democratic principle is that the results are respected. Red meat for the loyal, but hardly a new arguement.”
I predict ‘Gfaetheblock’ wont last long on WGD.
neither will
“Col says:
May 20, 2021 at 5:43 pm
Just to be clear, there is simply no way that Boris will grant an S30. Then we’re in court and it will take years to sort out. So if we want a Ref before 2026 the wheels need to be turning now. Otherwise Nicola or whoever will need a new mandate.”
Socrates MacSporran says:
The BBC, the mainstream Scottish media and, disgracefully, the ruling cabal inside the SNP has, I believe, been able to finish Scotland’s finest politician as a front-line leader.
Reply
It’s very sad & scary how easily people can be manipulated.
Might be better to have a party that doesn’t include people who are so easily manipulated.
So Sturgeon the Betrayer defended appointing the odious Angus Robertson to the position of Constitution secretary, which Sturgeon the Betrayer said, that the position isn’t just about Scottish independence, don’t we know it, as was the case with his predecessor.
The Betrayer went on to add, that she had appointed a serious government for the serious times we live in.
@Republicofscotland,
This is a very serious government. I read most of the announcements and went, “Is she serious?!”
It’s the political inhabitants of the Bute House Bordello that are needing scrubbed down, not Alex.
The only muck that’s stuck to Alex is the imaginary suit of crap that the empress has conjured up for her handcrones and kiddie-acolytes to see, in case the truth impacts negatively on their childish hypno-trans hero arcs.
When Alex Salmond left the High Court about a year ago now, he said: ‘Information which I was not allowed to submit to Court will see the light of day’.
Have we seen this information yet? I suspect, we haven’t. I suspect also that it would have had an effect on the election result if we had seen it.
Too late now.
True Scot,
I take from what you say that Scotland should be independent but just not yet.
The question, should Scotland be an independent country, has no time caveats but it is meant to be answered with a future Scotland and future generations in mind.
I have no doubt that an independent Scotland would be a prosperous and normal Northern European country.
Running a country properly is about good decision making whatever resources you find you have but you can rest assured that another country cannot and will not prioritise your needs.
Logic dictates that the situation we find ourselves in is, let’s be kind and say sub-optimal.
My father was always fond of the phrase “God helps those who help themselves” and I’ve found it to be very true in every practical sense.
@Dave Somerville
Alas I have to agree with your ‘sell-by date’ assessment of Alex Salmond, however crucial he has been in getting us thus far.
In the event of any discussion taking place re a potential successor, it could be pitched as the antithesis of the SNP’s failure of self-governance and transparency. This, in itself, may help attract those SNP members who feel disenfranchised.
Any repeat of the original under-lit launch of Alba to a disinterested / suppressed media presence would have to be circumvented. Can we afford to wait until COP29 to drive a metaphorical tank on to the lawn?
@Breeks – 21 May, 2021 at 8:18 am
‘John Main says:
21 May, 2021 at 7:44 am
“We wus robbed in 1707” resonates with just about nobody.
So you equate justice with resonance?’
No, do you? But all the people treated unjustly in 1707 are deid. There’s no justice for them in this life. The robbers are just as deid. There’s no punishment for them in this life. The average woman-in-the-street can see this clearly.
If you are going to tell me that you can trace your ancestry directly back to somebody who was alive in 1707 and was robbed, then good luck with your claim 6 or 7 generations later. Your average man-in-the-street is already walking away shaking his heid.
FFS, there are plenty of relevant, contemporary reasons to sell Scottish Independence to the undecided. Focus on communicating about them. Or be content to be seen as irrelevant every time you emerge from this echo chamber.
That would be COP26 – what kind of disability sees numbers upside down?
@Balaaargh 21 May, 2021 at 12:52 pm
“Do you actually bother to watch or read your own links? Between the telegraph one and now this. This clip is Margaret Cuthbert saying, “there is a ton of data gathered and presented but no evidence to back it up.”
No it doesn’t say that at all , well doen for making yoru own crap up yet again. More likely is that YOU didn’t watch it at all as everyone can see for themselves she makes very clear she and Her Husband spent 10 years checking all the Data and that it is sound.
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
She also makes clear the SNP itself has a group that changes GERS annually (along with the clear evidence on the Scot Gov website that shows they have been doing that since 2007 to the present day)
https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20191010063153/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
So feel free to explain why then when the SNP themselves have been designing the GERS numbers for themselves for more than 14 years that the SNP still can’t make them look any better ? The obvious answer is that because they ARE factual numbers then they can find no easy solution to filling the £15bn spending deficit even after more than 14 years of the SNP having control of GERS themselves and trying to do so.
=========================================
Your attitude and indeed the whole Nationalist agenda to the McCrone Report by trying to turn it into some sort of conspiracy is even funnier , when its pretty obvious from his own words he is most likely a Scots Nationalist himself but yet the whole Nationalist agenda is to try to turn him into the enemy when just by veiwing his own words he clearly is NOT that at all. https://archive.is/gpVek
There is an even longer much more recent Radio interveiw with Gavin McCrone here but i’m not sure you have the ability to listen to truth being dispensed to you , conspiracy theories seem you be your preference toreal truth.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p072j890
John Main,
Many people on this site have fought very specifically for it not to become an echo chamber. There may be majority agreement in many cases but it is not and never has been an echo chamber.
I think you will find that is one very important aspect that made WOS so successful.
@Captain Yossarian 21 May, 2021 at 1:25 pm
“When Alex Salmond left the High Court about a year ago now, he said: ‘Information which I was not allowed to submit to Court will see the light of day’.
Have we seen this information yet? I suspect, we haven’t. I suspect also that it would have had an effect on the election result if we had seen it.”
Agreed but he also said this more recently but still nothing ever gets actually produced to back it up , so why not ? Could it be that in truth nothing actually exists after all ?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salmond-sturgeon-destroyed-snp-alba-b1841720.html
I don’t think its ever too late if you can actually produce the goods. When does his new book come out ?
Don,
You’re not fooling anyone. I’m sure you will understand that it’s very difficult for anybody to take Unionists seriously, after all, why should anyone listen to somebody that believes they have neither the wit nor courage to make their own decisions.
That’s you I’m talking about. You don’t want to make decisions, you don’t want to stand on your own two feet, you would rather hide under the bedclothes shouting about the bogeyman.
Even if what you say is true and England does indeed subsidise Scotland, why on earth would you feel it necessary to burden the good people of England with the scrounging Jocks?
What have you got against the English?
@John Main
Id say the circumstances around Scotland joining the Union is relevant. It might not be on everyone’s list of priorities but it is still entirely relevant.
As relevant as the subjugation and then independence of India. The independence of the US etc.
Its not an excuse to persecute or privilege anybody living now but the past matters because we are where we are due to what happened before – especially when a legal or constitutional change has taken place.
The nature of that legal or constitutional change is actually very important – regardless of how long ago it was, so long as it persists to this day.
Its actually very, very enlightening to see how much world history has been fabricated, altered or glossed over in order to influence perception of existing circumstances.
There’s an Orwell quote regarding this. But I will refrain.
John main.
If the reality and facts of the past don’t fit for those in a financial benificary position today in Scotland they and others tell us to turn a blind eye to reality.
If by logic and fact you bought your property and you would pass it on to your family through inheritance and you consider the legal process should be followed into the future.
It has to be that history is playing a part in legal process, even if you bought your home say ten years ago, you would wish that to be acknowledged today legally,
But history and facts can not be selective, for they apply to all
. Legally the nation of Scotland did not join the treaty of the union in 1707.and legally that fact has to be continued and acknowledged today,
For the sovereign people here we consider Scotland our home, a home we never legally sold, or gave away,
What is the difference between yourself following history and continuity of legal law, and the sovereign people of Scotland wishing to hold onto their land/property through history and and continuity of legal law? None other than being selective to your own wants and needs.
You are already protesting about losing your rights,
Most of Scotland people have lost their homes through highland clearances a long time ago, and others deported by the boat loads to British colonies under false charges against them, and having been forced to leave under penalty of imprisonments when the poor had no access to lawyers, separated with breaking hearts from their family and homes.
These people should had equal rights to law as yourself.
Nowadays Scots are driven from their homes and land through the mismanagement of governments and politics, out priced by those with wealth,
A lot of these issues of the past, are relative to the present just as you claim for you’re self, you want the buying of you’re home to be legally recognised from the past to the present,
You can only qualify if you apply those same legal principles to the whole nation of Scotland, it cannot be one law for one, and a different law for others,
Legal law and recorded facts come together to be a recognised piece of history, applied by continuity of law, The sovereign nation of Scotland and its people never were asked to join the treaty of the union, they never signitured an agreement to do so, they never voted for it,
There was no treaty joining the kingdom of England to Scotland between the sovereign Scots and their sovereign lands to England’s goverment in 1707. The sovereign nation was not asked For its opinion,[ legally ] the treaty is no more than a business deal between gentlemen? in 1707, that was in fact ILLEGAL.
And for full comprehension of what that means, it is equivalent to someone selling your house today without your permission.
I am pretty sure today the sovereign Scots as a nation would not throw you out on your ear, their would be a proper legal process, unlike what happened to the Scots.
@Breastplate 21 May, 2021 at 2:11 pm
“Even if what you say is true and England does indeed subsidise Scotland, why on earth would you feel it necessary to burden the good people of England with the scrounging Jocks?
What have you got against the English?”
Its not a “subsidy” , its a Fiscal Transfer which is an inherent part of being a member of the Socialist economic system used across the WHOLE of the UK.
It appears you STILL don’t yet understand Scotland, N Ireland, Wales, South West, East Midlands , North East , Yorkshore and Humber, West Midlands and the North West ALL receive Fiscal Transfers.
While only London . East of England, South East are net contributors (mostly due to much higher density of populations which produces bigger Tax Revenues).
So the question should really be “What have YOU got against the Scottish ?” as its only the Scottish people you want to remove from the Socialist System that gives Scotland more Tax Revenues then it could raise from Scotland alone.
Its all explained here for you to properly understand should you actually choose to join the real economic world with real knowledge.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
‘Its all explained here for you to properly understand should you actually choose to join the real economic world with real knowledge’
lol
Just been reading the posting by John Cleary above…some bits of information are interesting but it sounds way too cranky because it can’t be backed by any credible evidence. I’m not sure why we need to invoke any medieval motto to find reasons why the powerful defend their own. Craig is a very inconvenient person for the powerful and he continually walks a fine line of provocation.
My own view is that in the end there are more of us than there are of them. If the Scottish people ever come together to show they will not tolerate elite corruption then we have a chance of getting somewhere. This needs organising and it needs to be pragmatic, not getting bogged down in history or psychology or any other ‘ology’.
More and more I’ve been feeling a sympathy for M. Baird’s contributions on the effects of colonialism in Scotland. It maddens me beyond belief how weak civil society is in Scotland. This has allowed councils and govt to capture ‘intermediate institutions’ like charities by providing key funding support. Whenever a civil-societal institution does arise, you often find it’s been started by a recent arrival from England. In comparative terms, England itself is far far ahead of us in terms of these independent intermediate institutions that provide a measure of accountability. All very sad but all very true.
Hi Breastplate
“I have no doubt that an independent Scotland would be a prosperous and normal Northern European country.”
-but that’s a feeling, not based on facts – there’s nobody in the SNP – the vehicle for independence and the government for a significant period of time afterwards – wcurrently working on that. This was one of Stu’s massive issues with the SNP.
There’s also the issue of the ambiguous word ‘european’ in what you say. It’s often used that way. Entry to the EU would not be quick or easy. Nobody is really ‘leaving a light on for Scotland’ – it will be a formal application process relying on agreement from all members. I think the Spain veto card is overplayed – they might veto it, but then again Scotland would be a net contributor, so on balance I think long term we could be in Europe. BUT if using Sterling, impossible to apply. And impossible to borrow unless using our own currency. But tanding up a new currency and central bank – do you have any idea what a colossal risk that is? Scotland would be a small bond market and (frankly) there’s an internet full of b*stards looking to short anything they can make money from, icluding brand new scottish pound.
If you have a mortgage – the idea of a new currency is TERRIFYING.
So this idea we’d be streamlined is untrue – ait would take as long as it would take and, the usual caveats about exceptions to one side – our national debt would need to be brought under control. Too much taxation and business and tax payers flee (I pay a lot more tax than my southern colleagues – but I don’t moan because of free tuition and proper care for the elderly – but squeeze harder and yes – I woyld definitely think of going if family circumstances permitted it.)
“Running a country properly is about good decision making whatever resources you find you have but you can rest assured that another country cannot and will not prioritise your needs.”
– again, look at the SNP and their priorities. Their own legislative agenda is not attractive and I personally see no evidence they are capable of steering this country out of a 300 year old political and economic union into statehood. Especially with the sheer scale of corruption we witnessed last year.
Do you honestly trust them Breastplate?
Independence is not a holy fire that would purge the rank and file – it would just give them bigger job titles and responibilities.
Swinney would have a starring role – he’s apparently got what it takes to lead us into post covid recovery. He’s a great example of the problem – not too bright, over promoted, nothing special. There’s very few bright minds that I see in that party at the moment. No visionaries. You need vision for what you want them to do.
You may be happy to get independence sooner for the sake of future generations – but those of us who are trying to steer the current generation into adulthood / careers / houses of their own, see literally no value in independence.
It looks increasingly something for the left-behind. That’s not to denigrate anyone – but it is the demographic who voted for Brexit, feeling that with nothing, they had nothing to lose – on a wave of patriotisn led by demagogues. They got their brexit – but do you think their lives are any different?
Do you see parallels with Brexit and Scottish independence? I knew a rangers bigot and a celtic bigot. Both were of the type that hated others colour – one hated green and one hated blue. Funny thing was, they were so similar it was scary – but in their own minds they were poles apart. Brexit and Scottish independence are driven by the same things – patriotism, a reaction to globalisation which has seen the traditional working classes becoming increasingly left behind in what we used to call the western world and some sense that we need to turn the clock back to fix a mistake we made in entering a union.
I’m sorry – if you don’t feel that independence is right – and you ask for a economic case – it’s unattractive. Especially if you have kids.
I’m sorry for writing a prospectus here – and I hope you understand I respect your point of view – and debate is the only way we can learn from each other.
I understand why you see hypocricy – if we were wealthy we should be independent – I’m not saying that. I’m saying that if we are wealthy it’s because Scotland is doing well in the UK – we trade a lot and get a lot of tax from that trade. I’m also am saying that I’ve not seen anything that convinces me we’d be better off until at least 10 years had passed.
Anyway – I hope you a good weekend. Freezing – heating on.
True Scot,
Yes, you are correct, that is my opinion on Scottish independence just as your opinion on Scottish independence is different.
true scot
Scotland would be a small bond market and (frankly) there’s an internet full of b*stards looking to short anything they can make money from, icluding brand new scottish pound.
Plenty of new countries hve managed this in recent times- the Baltic states, Slovakia etc.
As for international currency speculators shorting a currency, they tried it against Denmark in 2015 and got a bloody nose for their efforts.
I do despise SAS not because of who she is but, what she has done!
Anyway without getting personal….. why does her teeth look to be the same colour as her hair??
Don is an illiterate who can neither spell nor punctuate but it is his crimes against logic which are by now starting to grate and his afternoon-lawyer playing with words re: “fiscal transfer” v subsidy is a joke. Some people are truly too stupid to even argue with. His selective cherry picking of “factoids” and weaving it towards a desired conclusion : the generosity of southern England – is a lesson in bad thinking, and the kind of crap they used to try to knock out of first year uni students.
His style reminds me of Joe Bugner in boxing; now, Bugner was crap and got hit in the head all the time, but his head was just so damn thick he kept on coming, and was fairly successful, even fighting Ali at one point. Joe’s head was solid concrete, nothing could penetrate it. Like Don.
– Don has been given references, extensive ones (ignored); logical arguments (evaded), probing questions (brushed away) – but all he does is bang away with his “Daily Mail comments”- level of argumentation. The real insult is the condescension – from a fucking moron, indeed.
– aw fuck – now we have another “what about the currency”-tit and a “indy is like brexit” commentator. true scot sets a new record for “debunked bullshit unionist FUD” in one posting – bravo, sir!
Someone should post the rules of argument, just to remind ourselves – you need verifiable facts, logic and the principle of non-contradiction. In the “debate” about Scottish Independence we have : a largely falsified history, written by the victors; frequent errors of logic and contradictions no one is interested in dealing with, plus a massive and incessant flow of propaganda from vested interests; but not here, or at least it shouldn’t be.
Don,
Many people believe that London and the South East subsidise Scotland, that they subsidise Northern Ireland, that they subsidise Wales, that they subsidise many other parts of England, that they were until now subsidising Europe and that they are subsidising the rest of the world with international aid.
Yes, believe it or not, there are more people like you, allowed out alone at all times of the day but unfortunately for you there are growing numbers who believe that perhaps , it’s just a load of pish.
There’s a photograph of the latest SG cabinet meeting doing the rounds; at the top table: Leslie Evans, Nicola Sturgeon, John Swinney and James Wolffe.
Joanna Cherry has appealed to Sturgeon the Betrayer to update the case for Scottish independence. Cherry knows that dealing with the pandemic is the Betrayers first priority, but argues that other ministers should be making progress on preparing the groundwork for the “promised” indyref without delay.
Its been six years since Sturgeon the Betrayer took over as FM and we’re not one step closer to laying the groundwork for an indyref let alone actually holding one. Brexit was a golden opportunity to ditch this nasty onesided union for good but the Betrayer decided to sell us out and try and save England from itself.
The issue with EU accepting or not accepting Scotland is yet another issue Scottish nationalists have unintentionally created with their misplaced faith in that political bloc.
Scotland doesn’t need the EU and just like Brexit their posturing is mostly BS because in the end they would want what is good for their authority – which would mean Scotland being under their influence.
Forget the EU, which is a very slowly sinking ship. Promote the case for actual independence.
EU = globalist political institution
Europe = continent of the Europeans and their many countries.
They are not the same thing.
Does anyone have even a rough idea when the Lesley Evans trial is likely to happen?
Asked on Twitter but ‘no answer’ came the reply.
Opposition to Brexit was just another SNP power play and another attempt to fool the electorate.
The notion that we can be members of the EU and retain any kind of sovereignty is the stuff of Fairy tales
Unregulated immigration not only from the EU, but through the EU to Scotland would be a nightmare.
We have been very lucky indeed that over the past few decades Scotland has not seen the huge rates of immigration that have occurred in many parts of England.
If an Independent Scotland is to prosper we must be able to invest in industries which will benefit the economy of the country without outside influence from the EU or the handing down of directives from the ECJ….”Make Scotland great” should be our motto.
So the ex-Tory branch office leader and failed carsalesman Jackson Carlaw, and ten Tory MSPs including Murdo Fraser and Annie Wells (both back at Holyrood thanks to the two votes SNP brigade) have backed a motion to back Israel, and deem Hamas a terrorist organisation which targets Israel with missiles.
The Tory branch office in Scotland like its HQ in London is full of coldhearted b*stards who know exactly what Israel is, an occupying, apartheid, oppressive, military regime with state of the art weapons funded by the Great Satan the USA, with the immediate purpose of stealing all the lands of the rightful country of Palestine from its people the Palestinians.
I see the scroatfaced weasel Patrick Harvey prattle on about Scottish independence in the National newspaper, a word that must be permanently jammed in the National’s printing press.
Of course Harvey is as desperate for Scotland to become independent as Netanyahu is to up sticks and move to the Gaza Strip.
Harvey was very quiet on the rioting violent mob known as RFC fans last week, maybe its because like SLAB and the Tories at Holyrood he voted down the OBFA.
Republicofscotland @ 4.23
Why do you still read the National, for a daily whinge??
You need to get out more.
#ScrollForLols
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1395283626749833220
Alex Salmond Show’s back!
https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/524260-britain-pandemic-cambridge-virologist-chris-smith/
Here’s one from further down the feed for those that are preserving their mouse scroll wheel bearings so they can skim past Don’s posts.
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1393935293418463237
https://archive.is/tLcFz
‘Salmond warns independence ‘gradually slipping off the political agenda’
An interesting note about Scottish bank notes currently in circulation:
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/scottish-and-northern-ireland-banknotes
I know it isn’t the same as having an independent currency but it wouldn’t be hard in the event of independence to quickly set a Sterling currency and why would the rUK government and the Bank of England do anything to the detriment to it when 60% of our trade is with them?
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/gers_inherent_deficit-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/mark_blyth-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gdp_per_head-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gdp_combined2-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gdp_2018b-1-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/mcwilliams_thrive-768×554.jpg.webp
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/kevin_hague_gers-768×554.jpg.webp
Sorry for post @ 5:06 pm with multiple links, Rev. Forgot myself, just bin the post.
Classic Blowhard grievancing.
https://twitter.com/Ianblackford_MP/status/1395671617892724738
If only Scotland hadn’t been taken out of the EU against its will…
GERS deliberately designed to show a deficit:
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/gers_inherent_deficit-1200×865.jpg.webp
Dan says:
21 May, 2021 at 4:57 pm
Here’s one from further down the feed for those that are preserving their mouse scroll wheel bearings so they can skim past Don’s posts.
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1393935293418463237
Reply
Dangled Carrots!
https://tinyurl.com/mt5ktpyu
Crochet your own dangling carrot! 🙂
True scot.
Scotland nor its people made a mistake by joining the treaty of the union years ago.
We did not join,
Only a few select criminals committed themselves to that deal,
Don,
If Scotland is so wrong in going against England’s choice and vision of GT Britain,
Why is Westminster antagonising Ireland into civil war, breaking the good Friday agreement, and going back on its word.
Wales is more and more discussing independence from England,
Four countries and three of them just about ready to go.
England Westminster is trying to bully by force or legal control three countries that surround it into staying attached to London, none of them want to.
But there is another reality closer to home for Westminster, parts of England want their independence from London and its governance at this moment in time.
Scotland is not isolated or alone in wanting its independence from London’s rule.
That says a lot more about about Westminster’s bad management of Britain, rather than those that want to leave
Re this afternoon’s photograph of the first Scottish Government meeting of Ministers; they are all photographed sitting ’round a table with nothing on the table in front of them. Marie Gougon has a computer, Sturgeon has a folder of some kind but no-one has a paper and pen, an agenda……a feckin enbarrassment.
I’ve been at two meetings with these arseholes and that is how they carry-on, believe me.
It brought back some very bad memories. All are feckin useless and the country should have been purged of all of these arseholes at election time. Instead, we have even more of them now.
Lukewarm_Dave
is brilliant.
I need help with the Morphy Richards iron.
What’s that about?
I she ironing out all the creases?
Another article about how sleekit the Gers report is:
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/
I think I know what the ‘French stick’ symbolises but it could be I have a very dirty mind.
Republicofscotland says: All Glasgow football supporters said that the OBFA was bollocks….Rangers and Celtic.
On that subject, I notice that Police Scotland have just issued a statement confirming that the video purported to show Rangers players singing sectarian songs was a fake.
Any sensible Glasgow football supporter knew that anyway.
Is that vapid tit Humza Yousaf going to resign?….appologise?….or is he bulletproof too?
Forget your OBFA – it’s the delinquent behaviour of your government that is pissing-off everyone at the moment.
Captain Yossarian says:
21 May, 2021 at 5:34 pm
Re this afternoon’s photograph of the first Scottish Government meeting of Ministers; they are all photographed sitting ’round a table with nothing on the table in front of them. Marie Gougon has a computer, Sturgeon has a folder of some kind but no-one has a paper and pen, an agenda……a feckin enbarrassment.
Reply
Perhaps they were leaving space for ‘Lukewarm_Dave’
to add a few knick-knacks!
‘Knick-knacks’ that’s an interesting phrase I might have to look into it’s origin.
PS: If you don’t fancy crocheting a ‘dangling carrot’ perhaps you could knit one.
https://craftbits.com/project/healthy-carrots/
Captain. No suggestion the video was fake. Only no criminality. So you can sing what you want as longs as its not criminal!!
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19320917.investigation-concluded-claims-rangers-players-singing-sectarian-songs-title-celebrations/
No criminality means inconclusive that individual players can be identified. They have not said anywhere the video was a fake.
Socrates and others opining that AS has now become tarnished in the eyes of the public and Ake bemoaning his timing for the ALBA party , if you can , remember what this site was like prior to the HR elections and ALBA emerging , it was FULL of people asserting they would not even be voting in the elections as it was a waste of time , it was covered in trolls and liebour supporters pushing Sarwar, it was madness
Then light at the end of the tunnel AS and the formation of a NEW INDEPENDENCE PARTY , HOPE formed again , BUT ,BUT no one could have forseen the BLATANT VILE LIES AND ABUSE uttered by sturgeon and her minions ably assisted by the MSM that she donated £3 million pounds to , also assisted by the CORRUPT broadcasters to ignore , shun and block Salmond from ANY publicity
I too question AS patience in allowing the scum to avoid the disinfection of light and exposure which has allowed uncontested bile to gain traction , but hopefully some time soon his and our revenge will be all the sweeter if it destroys the cancer feeding on and infesting Scotland
We need Rangers to ask why they are singing these songs. The police might not charge them, but the singing was not faked according to the reports. Rangers are trying to spin their way out of this. Some are buying it unfortunately.
@Breastplate – 21 May, 2021 at 3:24 pm
“Many people believe that London and the South East … were until now subsidising Europe and that they are subsidising the rest of the world with international aid.”
Indeed, and some of these people run the EU, which is why since the departure of the UK, which was the second largest net contributor in 2017, the EU has been unable to agree which countries are going to have to make up the shortfall.
I infer what you are claiming is that Scotland has been robbed by WM in order to pay off the EU. Interesting that you should believe that. If it is true, it certainly suggests that an Independent Scotland should steer clear of the EU. They will expect us to once again start subsidising the 16 countries that all withdraw more than they put in (2017 figures, as reported by BBC Reality Check).
As for Foreign Aid, in 2018 the UK came third only to the USA and Germany. In fact, these 3 countries handed over 50% of the entire world total.
Again, I infer that you believe the UK portion was actually stolen from Scotland.
I feel richer already! Get these facts out there and Scottish Independence (outside of the EU) should be a no-brainer.
Big Jock – ‘It is deeply concerning that this video has been taken as genuine and has been shared widely including by some political representatives who should be mindful of their influence and legal processes.’
That’s what it says, Jock. It is fake, bogus, it’s a spoof, it’s not real. One of those tools purporting it to be genuine was our Justice Minister.
Look at our ‘Cabinet of Arseholes’…..It’s the same thing. Get the picture?
James Che
Thanks for your reply.
I guess we are going to have to agree to differ on the relevance of 1707 to the historical and political processes in play today.
John Main,
I am not defending the EU, I’m merely stating that the thinking that the debt ridden UK paying for all and sundry is extremely flawed.
Would you not agree?
Captain. That was Rangers statement ,not the police. Rangers aren’t their own police. The police gave said no criminality that’s all.
While I’m here John,
Regarding the EU, paying for something usually means getting something in return. Of course it is then debatable if the return is worth it but again it’s a matter of opinion.
“Republicofscotland says: All Glasgow football supporters said that the OBFA was bollocks….Rangers and Celtic.”
Captain Yossarian.
I said no such thing, get your facts right laddie.
It said that in The Record too, Jock. It’s a fake, believe me. I live in Glasgow and old-firm football is part of life here. There’s little or no sectarianism amongst football supporters – none to worry about anyway. Only sectarianism comes from Humza Yousaf and tools like him.
If the Police said what Rangers said then Swinney and Wolffe would have them sacked. The Police know that and so they say the minimum and leave the rest to Rangers. It’s an obvious wind-up.
Rangers have said legal action. That will reveal all. No-one in the press has said the video was faked. Rangers haven’t even said that. They have said words like genuine. Very cute with their language.
If the police thought the video was fake they would have said that. Legal language is subtle. Rangers can spin it as a conspiracy. Whilst forgetting the 1000s of hooligans and bigots who wrecked Glasgow. We have videos of that.
They have said that it is not genuine, Jock.
The police haven’t said anything about the viability of the video. No criminality is a cop out. Can’t prove who sang it, but it was sung.
So loathesome ex-Tory MSP Adam Tomkins has contradicted Douglas Ross on the ability of Holyrood to hold an indyref without Westminster’s consent. Tomkins a die-hard unionist said it might be legal for Holyrood to hold the indyref, something the Tory branch office manager Ross has called a wildcat referendum, oh how it must break Tomkins heart to admit this. Ross must also be thinking how can this be.
Meanwhile Alex Salmond the only FM ever to have led us to an indyref, has said that Sturgeon the betrayer is letting an indyref slip-off the table.
The real party for Scottish independence the Alba party will be contesting council elections in 2022, surely by then SNP 1&2 voters will realise that Sturgeon the Betrayer is a fraud if she hasn’t made significant moves to secure an indyref by then.
It was probably sung by the folk down at the Louden Tavern on Paisley Road West, just before closing time on a Friday night. It definitely wasn’t sung by Mr Morelos, Mr Aribo, Mr Hagi etc.
Ruby @ 5.36
I think the iron is telling us that there’s more than one way to break a windie.
Of course I have no real way of knowing as I only ever use mine for it’s intended purpose 🙂
AUOB were planning a demo outside Holyrood on Saturday the 22nd of May, (tomorrow), conveniently Sturgeon the Betrayer who fears the AUOB because she can’t control it, has put the kybosh on that by keeping Glasgow in level 3 thus prohibiting travel to and from the city.
Still here, Just stopped by to let you know that.
Big Jock @ 6.07
* We need Rangers to ask why they are singing these songs. *
Why do we care Big Jock ?
I’d rather leave them to make a show of themselves and more importantly not give British Goverment that button to push.
When we get out of the Union there will be nae unionism for them to sing and shout about anyway.
The Popes fine and God real or no isnay gonna save the Queen from joining Auld Phil either.
Our choice here is to buy into it and allow the British state to play its usual games.
I’d say don’t buy what they are selling let it rot for lack of light.
That they are hell bent on wreaking our farming,fishing and have already damaged Scottish exports and if I was cynical I’d say , that’s to do as much damage as they can before we leave .
We should pick our battles here and let the old firm hang as they grow.
Hopefully in a few years Celtic will relocate to Ireland and Rangers will go somewhere south too, ( I can dream ) and our neighbouring countries can stop playing out their proxy war in Glasgow.
Liz g says:
21 May, 2021 at 7:14 pm
Ruby @ 5.36
I think the iron is telling us that there’s more than one way to break a windie.
Of course I have no real way of knowing as I only ever use mine for it’s intended purpose 🙂
Reply
I’ve forgotten what it’s intended purpose is. I only wear non-iron.
Works well as a door stop.
“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit a mandate for a second independence referendum when the time is right. We shall lookout for the sign.”
It turns out the ‘Morphy Richards’ iron is the sign 🙂
What do you make of the magpie!
One for sorrow?
Steals jewellery, deceitful?
Ironing the French flag is another interesting one.
PS. https://tinyurl.com/4ettsnft
If you are totally useless & can’t crochet or knit your own ‘dangling carrots’ you can buy 30 plastic ones on Ebay for 3 quid!
@Gerry Parker (8.05) –
Hoots mon!
😉
It would be nice if the regulars could make a point of gathering at this time every Friday.
Does it matter about the Rangers video?. Speaking as a former East Coaster. Haven’t we got more important things to worry about? And I am not talking about Covid. The SNP trashed the law in plain view. I was reminded recently about my auld maws caution about Sturgeon. She will have a fight in an empty hoose. Acceleration of our move out in progress. Before it is too late to move. Hyperbole? I am not taking that chance. Enjoy Scotland you voted for Sturgeon.
Nearly missed it Ian, was watching 4077 MASH. ?
Contrary to what we are told by our betters
Financially, Scotland is not a 3rd world country.
It already has a developed economy.
With Independence it will have more revenue and certainly more liabilities
That Scotland cannot support itself is absolute nonsense!
we were shafted by the Mc Crone report!
we were shafted with GERS!
We are shafted by the “lack of Oil” reports, except some bugger out there keeps discovering more and more!
It would be nice to get this information into the hands of the public but then again we get shafted by the Unionist media!
Scottish Farmers and Fisherman are also being shafted by Brexit and UK trade deals!
On a lighted hearted note someone has found Nicola’s bus
https://twitter.com/perfectly_pics/status/1395375169841946629
Meant to post this from almost a week back.
Will our newly elected representatives opt to offer us better democracy by shortening the parliamentary term (and a year’s less wages…)
https://twitter.com/thecommongreen/status/1393846004915572736
Hey folks 🙂
Hope everyone’s well and ready to get this show on the road again?
Our movement has followed the election timetable of political parties for far too long and it’s time we set our own schedule on our own terms!
Ian Brotherhood @ 8.08 pm ,
“ It would be nice if the regulars could make a point of gathering at this time every Friday. “
This is just to say hello to you and all the other wingers .
#WingsIsTheBestBlog
#WomenWontWheest
Tannadice Boy (8.09) –
‘The SNP trashed the law in plain view.’
What a great way of putting it. Wish I’d thought of that one – it’s the perfect size for a wee punchy tweet. The type of thing people really remember.
And it’s one that a lot of folk would be confident of saying in company because – if they kept across the whole Harassment Inquiry (even the highlights via social media) – they *know* they can back it up with real examples. And the fact that it’s all unfinished business means that these conversations will certainly be happening, particularly as we draw closer to seeing Leslie Evans forced to appear in court. (If, indeed, we do – how far are Sturgeon & Wolfee prepared to push their luck?)
It’s bigger than any individual. It’s even bigger than ‘the bug’. On that we can agree!
The failure of the mainstream media in Scotland to address this whole episode with the diligence it deserved is damning, and the ‘old-school’ journalists (I believe we have had a few contributing here over the years, most notably the bold Socrates MacSporran) must be as mortified as they are worried about what’s happening. This country has produced some great journalists and they took their skills and standards all over the world. What on earth are journalists in other countries thinking about what’s happened to us? They were there when Robinson asked his impertinent question of Alex Salmond and then lied about the response. The foreign correspondents openly celebrated Slamond’s digs at Robinson. They know Scotland is a special place in the history of their trade.
If the journalists (who are, let’s face it, an endangered species) cannot or will not honestly speak out when they see such blatant abuse of democratic processes, who else is there to take them to task? Who? When the judiciary are right in it up to their fuckin necks? What chance have we got if even the writers (who would’ve been pamphleteers in revolutionary times) are cowed into going along with the narrative which suits those already in power. What’s that all about?
No-one else did what Stu did here. No-one.
I can’t speak for anyone’s else’s experiences on Twitter (I don’t do FB, but imagine the general vibe on big important topics is probably broadly similar) because I can’t be sure how many of the ‘Yoonstream’ I’ve actually blocked. But that number can’t be much bigger than the amount of SNP 1&2ers I’ve blocked since the election. Just incredible, how arrogant and blinkered they are. Where on earth did they learn to behave so fuckin entitled? Oh, wait…SLab redux, wearing Thatcher’s auld suit.
There’s the chance of a lifetime here, for a real, professional ‘journalist’, to at least make an effort to fill the gap Stu has left. The Yoons themselves must secretly be admitting as much. The space is just too big – Wings was a handy scapegoat for a lot of folk, in political parties as well as broadcasters and print media. But who can they blame now for discontent generally? The empty space is too large, noticeable. Something will fill it, but…
If no-one takes up that challenge? then we might as well not have any press at all.
We need a journalist who can tell the truth and speak for us. If Stu won’t do it (and I haven’t seen anyone on our side daft enough to *demand* that he carry-on) then we have to find someone who will.
Because if we can’t find that person, we’re fucked.
@MaggieC (8.57) –
😉
Not going away…
To any woke rubberneckers, GIRFUY
Evening all
Just wanted to say a wee “hello” and lend my support to the Friday evening oldtimers gang.
I’ve just finished work and haven’t even read through the thread yet, but when Ian Brotherhood calls us to arms, you can bet your life ah’m a gonnae be there!
Like most of us, I’ve been in the doldrums since the election fiasco.
But definitely not giving up, and as soon as I’ve got my mojo back, I’ll be back campaigning for Alba and lending my voice to Now Scotland….just to remind those duplicitous and triumphalist New SNP Orwellian scumbags that the grassroots Indy movement will never die, no matter how determinedly and deviously they try to kill us off.
@Ian Brotherhood 9:01pm
We don’t have too look too far today to see where our MSM failed us. Our state broadcaster in particular. Stu knows I have had a running battle with the BBC for many years. Today I felt vindicated. Whether the Jimmy Savile case or a future heir to the realm the same principle applies. Our state broadcaster needs to be impartial. They failed the people on many fronts.
@ Captain
You live in Glasgow and your constituency MSP is J. Baillie. Interesting.
@ ian murray 21 May, 2021 at 8:20 pm
“Financially, Scotland is not a 3rd world country.”
Correct.
“With Independence it will have more revenue ”
Wrong. https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418
“and certainly more liabilities”
Correct.
“That Scotland cannot support itself is absolute nonsense”
Correct , but will Scots be happy to Vote to be 16%-20% poorer then they are right now ? https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/
“we were shafted by the Mc Crone report”
McCrone says you are wrong. https://archive.is/gpVek
“we were shafted with GERS”
SNP Economist Margaret Cuthbert says your wrong.
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/economy-jobs-and-fair-work-committee-september-19-2017?clip_start=11:07:40&clip_end=12:05:33
“We are shafted by the “lack of Oil” reports, except some bugger out there keeps discovering more and more!”
Wrong again its not the lack of Oil is the problem the issue is that its becoming ever more unprofitable to get out the ground. Where do you think demand for Oil is going to go when we are all driving elecric cars around ?
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/725444/snp-mp-admits-an-independent-scotland-would-not-receive-a-huge-income-from-oil/
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/381886/oil-revenues-were-not-a-bonus-during-indyref-admits-snp-economic-adviser/
“It would be nice to get this information into the hands of the public but then again we get shafted by the Unionist media!
Scottish Farmers and Fisherman are also being shafted by Brexit and UK trade deals”
You seem mostly deluded and very poorly economically informed.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/
Not interesting at-all. Dumbaron is near enough Glasgow, isn’t it?
Dumbarton is that Dum Barton or Dumb Aron just asking.
‘In order for the BBC to be saved it will be necessary for the BBC to destroy it’ seems to be the waft of the current line of corporate flatulence…from the BBC.
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1395823896788676612/photo/1
Dan he is good.
@ Captain
It’s not near enough to be in it. I’ve never met a resident of Glasgow who says they live in Dumbarton.
@Dan 21 May, 2021 at 9:59 pm
4 Bulls Eyes. Perhaps an occasional cartoon here ?
https://twitter.com/DaveLukewarm/status/1395283626749833220c
Alex Salmond was framed. A deliberate and detestable act of perjury was committed and the law did not act. No stone was left unturned and no dustbin was left uninspected in order to find anything which could stitch him up. In the end he was acquitted of all charges, yet the MSM including Sturgeon have the temerity to suggest he was still guilty and should apologise to the complainers. In essence what they are saying is that there is no such verdict as not guilty and that all those acquitted of charges against them are in fact still guilty. But we know that is not the case unless of course you are AS.
Alex Salmond was professionally stitched up because he was a threat to Sturgeon, and Craig Murray and Mark Hirst followed because of their support for him. I do find it concerning that some posters suggest AS is damaged goods and should step down from front line politics, because all that says to me is that if you want to remove a political opponent you frame them or in the case of Murray and Hirst arrest them on trumped up charges. The unionist media has trashed his reputation and that has always been the agenda.
I don’t think they or Sturgeon should get away with it.
AS is not perfect but he is an articulate accomplished politician who above all is committed to independence and there aint many of them around.
@Captain Yossarian 21 May, 2021 at 5:48 pm
“Republicofscotland says: All Glasgow football supporters said that the OBFA was bollocks….Rangers and Celtic.
On that subject, I notice that Police Scotland have just issued a statement confirming that the video purported to show Rangers players singing sectarian songs was a fake.
Any sensible Glasgow football supporter knew that anyway.
Is that vapid tit Humza Yousaf going to resign?….appologise?….or is he bulletproof too?
Forget your OBFA – it’s the delinquent behaviour of your government that is pissing-off everyone at the moment.”
Not just that but they said they are going to sue “people in places and positions who should know better” please let it be Yousaf , maybe this is why he was moved ?
Ruby 21 May, 2021 at 5:44 pm
“I think I know what the ‘French stick’ symbolises but it could be I have a very dirty mind.”
Hadn’t thought of that , tou could be correct
Can’t work out what the Iron represents.
Doesn’t the Magpie reference relate to Her Hubbys musings on Magpies at the Holyrood Enquiry ? https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/6651406/snp-peter-murrell-sturgeon-husband-salmond/
@Tannadice Boy –
Just tweeted your ‘SNP trashed the law in plain view’ comment, with link to here.
Hope you don’t mind.
😉
So would I prefer a pished Captain Yossarian who occasionally comes up with coherent rational posts or SNP hired guns. In the main the posts of the Captain have been conciliatory. He is a Unionist but He knows its the middle ground that matters. As I do. That’s the only way forward. So if you wanted to avoid Independence I hope you voted SNP1 and SNP2. The ultimate Unionist trick.
@Ian Brotherhood 11:13pm
No worries we are all trying to rationalise current events. I will miss Stu and the comments
Ruglonian @21 May, 2021 @8:50 pm
Well ready for sure.
Absolutely with you, getting momentum forward!
Always good to read your posts. It seems like/it is a long forgotten age since we last chatted about matters in the Clutha!!
“We shall either free India or die in the attempt; we shall not live to see the perpetuation of our slavery.”
Mahatma Gandhi
@Saffron Robe 1:33pm
Of course great words and the progressive Woke left would have us believe no other opinion is valid. My father worked in the jute mills as did all family. Home spun campaign by Gandhi destroyed the Dundee jute mills. Fair?. I will introduce you to my Dad and he will educate you. Meanwhile you will have to tramp over the dead bodies in Dundee. We have left Dundee but the Gandhi legacy continues. Dead bodies but nobody cares about them especially the SNP governed City. Sold Camperdown golf course and then moved the Eden complex to a redundant gas complex? The SNP the brains of Britain.
Missed the call to hail all Wingers – a belated hail to one and all and especially Ronnie!!
De Valera – According to the Post Office, Dumbarton is Glasgow. To a nationwide readership, that’s all that matters. You’re dancing on the head of a pin again.
@ Captain Yossarian at 7.43
@ me
Oops! HTML fail! (Serves me right.)
Tannadice Boy says:
“Of course great words and the progressive Woke left would have us believe no other opinion is valid.”
I disagree with your comment. The Wokerati are neither “progressive” nor “left”. They may say they are, or even believe themselves to be, but ultimately they are a tool of neo-liberalism and Big Pharma.
I do, however, agree with your criticism of the SNP administration!
Apologies if other have shared this but Sturgeon’s virtue signalling over the Indian variant went down least well with the community leaders she was trying to patronise.
If you can’t access the article Indian community leader Neil Lal said it was “gesture politics”. . Her scare conference today she looked really wooden and unconvincing as she tried to convince us two deaths of very old people were the start of a third wave.
https://apple.news/AjFV8qF7pTHORGOxONYJ9MA
@Jontoscots21
Surely everyone knows “gesture politics” is Sturgeon’s currency of choice.