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Hostile environment

Posted on May 15, 2021 by

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    1. Dave Somerville says:

      Nice one Chris

    2. Dave Somerville says:

      And do headlines like this in the front page of the National not just infuriate you?

      The shear hypocrisy of this prick Humza Yusef talking of independence, after him and his Party turned their backs on having the support of the ALBA Party to help them achieve this Independence they talk of.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1393442771168419842

    3. Turnbuldrier says:

      Nice to see Hamish make a return.

    4. kapelmeister says:

      Dave Somerville @7:09

      Aye, it’s not like Sturgeon’s SNP to be still talking about indy a week after an election. They’ll nevertheless drop the subject as soon as they can.

    5. winifred mccartney says:

      Ms Patel pity her actions are not prity. She is a hard nosed tory typical tory – having fled herself you might expect her to be sympathetic – but she is just another self-centred self-serving tory – bit like her old boss Cameron.

      Any chance Chris of another book of your cartoons – they are wonderful – always on form.

    6. akenaton says:

      Abusing conservatives does not serve the cause of Scottish Independence, when it happens the yes vote will comprise a large section of conservatives……and they are the people who will fight hardest against the social disaster envisaged by Sturgeon and her hellish crew.

    7. Stoker says:

      Rev, look at your anger & opinions over 10-years ago and thankfully you committed to making a difference, and what a difference you made. We need you in the fight and working parallel to ALBA, as you did for the SNP over all those years, will help give Scotland that final push over the line we desperately need. Please enjoy your well deserved break and consider sticking with it. We need you going forward.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/everyone-in-britain-is-a-moron/

    8. akenaton says:

      I would far rather see protests like the one portrayed above directed at the criminals in Holy rood, or to free Mr Murray, than a couple of illegal immigrants.
      What a stupid country we have been moulded into.

    9. Name (required) says:

      An immigration policy can be compassionate or
      not, as can the dealings of refugees, it is a choice. however it is not choice made by us in our own country rather it is a choice enforced on us by a dis-compassionate, corrupt, racist state. and that is the problem.

      it takes a certain type of stupid to over look that akenaton or a racist.

    10. Breeks says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      15 May, 2021 at 7:09 am
      And do headlines like this in the front page of the National not just infuriate you?

      Not any more. It’s just the same con on intravenous drip. I’m tuned out now, just scrolling past, like you do with all the other trolls. What the SNP now says carries as much weight as what the Tories or Labour says… a pretty much flatline response.

      But a steady supply of horseshit from the SNP is good for getting the roses to grow, and with luck, patience, and proper cultivation, it will be good for the ALBA party too.

      akenaton says:
      15 May, 2021 at 8:25 am

      No country can survive without an immigration policy.

      Scotland’s Immigration policy is a work in progress… 5.46 million people to leave the UK overnight.

    11. Douglas MacMillan says:

      Call me a romantic but what we witnessed on Thursday was people power at work. The state was defeated because the community acted in defence of their own. Real people taking action and they won.

      If communities can win here, then what more can communities achieve with regard to their environment, their housing and their education if they can organise and make a stand?

    12. akenaton says:

      Name Required ..We are unfortunately still a member of the UK and under the auspices of the UK immigration policy.
      Please do not insinuate that I am a racist, you know nothing about me obviously.
      The demonstration was a disappointment to me as a supporter of Scottish independence and gave the wrong signal to Indy supporters who believe in the rule of law and to the wider British public.

    13. Athanasius says:

      @Name (Required)

      Akenaton may or may not be a racist, but don’t assume he is because he says things you don’t like. The left abuses the word to the point of its destruction. And no, it isn’t obvious or self-evident from Akenaton’s post that he’s a racist.

    14. TNS2019 says:

      Captain Yossarian says:
      15 May, 2021 at 8:47 am

      Regarding the school that’s sinking.

      An apt metaphor for what is happening to the nation!
      So pleased that you are closer to a resolution but mightily depressed at the corruption and obfuscation that appears to have prevailed over all this time.
      The way our justice system is run seems to be designed to prevent malpractice being addressed and to deny private citizens access to a remedy.
      As I am finding.
      I am not sure that I want to be a citizen of an independent nation that attaches so little importance to justice.

      https://www.tns2019.org/new-blog-1/2021/5/13/the-legal-case-against-the-care-inspectorate

    15. Douglas MacMillan says:

      A little off topic but am I the only person who perceives a racist undertone to labelling Covid-19 variants based on the country they were first noted by science?

      Calling something the Indian strain is completely misleading scientifically as there is no way of knowing how or where this variant appeared. Calling it the ‘Indian variant’ also encourages the racist idiots to target Indian people in our communities.

      Like so much of the narrative with Covid, we find messaging from the State that is far from neutral or science based.

      Are the Tories deliberately stoking the fire of racism … (rhetorical question I guess)

    16. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dave Somerville

      And do headlines like this in the front page of the National not just infuriate you?

      Quite the contrary. I want all the SNP leadership saying the i-word all the time, whether they mean it or not. Every utterance is another loop binding their hands.

      I’m sure they’re hoping for another covid wave based on the variant from SE Asia so attention can be refocussed away from independence but that’s risky. Every day expectations are being set. The incident this week with the Border Protection just drives those expectations higher.

    17. Mia says:

      “Immigration policy cannot be devolved because it has to be the same everywhere”

      That is nonsense. The different countries of the European Union may have some elements of immigration policy that are similar, but they are not identical. And why should they be?

      The UK is a political union much in the same way the EU is. I don’t see why Scotland, that has diametrically opposed demographic needs to those of England, has to have the exact same racist policies that England wants for itself. Why should England’s wants and needs be considered in Scotland anymore important than Scotland’s wants and needs?

      The meat of the matter here is that it is a bunch of England MPs who hold no democratic mandate whatsoever on Scotland and who were not elected by anybody in Scotland to act or speak on our behalf who are determining an immigration policy that is deliberately toxic to Scotland.

      If those England MPs cannot be arsed in listening to us and respect our country’s needs and wants, why the hell should we bother listen to them, never mind respect their decisions?

    18. holymacmoses says:

      People need to decide, democratically, who should stay and who should go. There would be no song and dance about the process if we had independence and a sensible and fair constitutional government

    19. holymacmoses says:

      Hamish is back hame:-)

    20. Breeks says:

      Captain Yossarian says:
      15 May, 2021 at 8:47 am

      20-years ago this would not have happened; we knew our engineering and things would have been properly checked straight away. Now we have cover-up, after cover-up, after cover-up and it is because everyone is answerable to those at Holyrood.

      Don’t be so sure.

      There was a property redevelopment in the Borders, must be 20 years ago plus… a steading refurbishment turned into dwellings. Consultants involved, Local Authority involved, all consents secured, Planning and Building warrant.

      There were problems right away when the buyer moved in. The plumber reckoned if the fella had raised his arm in the shower he’d have been electrocuted. There were flitch beams supported on doubled up studs which should have been taken to a load bearing foundation but were floating on air. There were no Catnic lintels supporting the masonry work over window openings as specified, but the masonry was supported on a simple steel stap (which was arguably harder to procure than a Catnic lintel), but the masonry was buckling and being held up by the window. I could go on.

      The Contractor had disappeared in a puff of smoke, so the buyer tried to sue the Local Authority for negligence when conducting their stage inspections of the property, because it really was that bad you surely couldn’t have missed it.

      I wasn’t party to the communications, but the Local Authority were more slippery than an eel from the Tweed when it came to worming out of liability for not picking up these life threatening defects, and PI Insurers, (that’s Professional Indemnity), weren’t much better. It was all hushed up, largely because the buyer was trying to stop his mortgage falling apart, the “consultants” didn’t want their involvement broadcast, and the Council just passed the buck as Councils do, …once they’ve taken the money.

      I wouldn’t have any faith at all, none whatsoever, that things were done right 20 years ago. Much of my personal antithesis towards Local Authorities and SNP government has it’s roots in the toxic mix of incompetence, corruption, indifference and sophistry which was very much alive and well 20 years ago, and I was having flashbacks listening to the ducking and diving evasive pish of the Fabiani “Inquiry”. There people are good at lying because dishonesty and corruption is endemic in the system that produces them. It only fluctuates in it’s scale.

      Corruption is like a wine. It likes to be kept underground in the dark, and be left alone to improve with age… Today’s rotten SNP didn’t just suddenly happen. And in fairness to the SNP, it’s the whole mechanism of Scottish Government which is riddled with corruption and indifference to corruption. Back then, I hoped the SNP was different. Sadly, on current evidence, they are different. They are actually worse, much worse, and even more corrupt.

    21. Stuart MacKay says:

      Douglas MacMillan

      Absolutely the labelling is fueling prejudice and it’s intentional too. Sky News was going on about all the hotspots of the variant. The constant emphasis was on areas of England with large populations from SE Asia. This is despite the fact that the figures used are two weeks old and the variant is probably present all over the country.

      The reprehensible thing is that the communities in areas like Bolton (just like those in Middlesbourough before) are being used to carry the can for government inaction. Flights from SE Asia could have been limited and additional checks made but no, it was business as usual.

    22. Doug says:

      People power. As far as Scotland is concerned it’s good to through away Westminster’s rule book.

    23. Captain Yossarian says:

      I’ll let you know next week, Breeks. One thing we can say though is that this has now been properly checked by the best experts in the UK and, in fact, some of the best experts in the world.

      Believe it or not, I worked with one of them years ago.

      One thing Holyrood has become very good at in recent years is using lawyers to deny justice. We saw that at the Fabiani Inquiry too; I remember James Wolffe sitting there smiling as if he knew he was untouchable.

      Basically, this school is ‘non-compliant’ which means it is illegal and unsafe. They’ve all known that (including the City Council’s lawyers) since before they built the place.

    24. Daisy Walker says:

      Sorry folks – I’m not buying the Kenmure St incident.

      I read (and apologies, I didn’t keep the link, or the source) that Liz Truss just signed a deal for 5,000 Indian work permits to enter the UK, same day as this incident.

      We were warned that Brexit would lead to one certainty, with the UK in dire financial straights it would lead to large quantities of Indian and Chinese work visas to enter the UK.

      Going into this Brexit economic disaster, unemployment is going to rise big time – exactly why would the tories want cheap immigrant labour coming into the country at this time?

      Kenmure St looked awfully staged to me, a ‘win’ for oor wee Nicla, and a great big distraction from the Truss deal.

    25. Dave Hansell says:

      akenaton,

      You won’t like this comparison but what you are doing here is engaging in precisely the same approach as what has become known as the woke.

      The objective facts are:

      The two individuals at the centre of this event are not illegal immigrants. They may, or may not be determined to be via legal due process, which has not yet taken place. They were not hiding from anyone but instead living in plain sight assisting the local religious community in efforts to deal with food poverty whilst due process took its course.

      If the immigration service wished to speak with them whilst proper due process takes its course there are well established norms and procedures for doing so. Norms and procedures which have been developed over a long period of time and which had their origin in a document produced in the year 1215.

      But no. What the State did was send in the heavy mob to present a false picture, known as fake news, that they were dealing with two desperate fugitives.

      In short; the State effectively, via its actions, made a very public accusation in a crude attempt to circumnavigate the due process principles and standards which were not benignly handed from on high but were hard fought for – in some cases by people who considered themselves “Conservative”. Conservative in the sense of conserving something of value which has its value as a result of the struggles to achieve it.

      This is exactly the process used by those who kick the arse out of everything who have taken over the woke agenda. An allegation being sufficient to equate to automatic guilt without the need for hard fought for principles and standards of due process such as innocent until proven guilty, right a defence and objective evidence based decision making and I which rather than subjective based opinion and feeling.

      And this is precisely what you,akenaton are engaged in. Whether you realise it or not.

      A recent poster, by the name of Fearghas, on the Gordon Dangerfield site posted this BTL observation which succinctly sums up the link between the authoritarian rabid right and the woke so called “progressives”:

      “Thank you Gordon for this bravely assertive and highly relevant blog post. Of course the Gender Recognition Act will be duly enforced by the Hate Crime Act. Thus arises an intriguing ‘binary’ relationship between extreme individualistic subjectivism and extreme state authoritarianism. Assertion of non-negotiable pseudo-sacrosanct narcissistic power is common to both. Objective law as irreducible sphere of reality is subverted by arbitrary personalism. Might determines right. Autocracy of self-ID is mirrored by autocracy on high.”

      You are part of a mob. A mob being played by authoritarians who are seeking to trash everything you imply you believe in. Now it’s your choice whether or not you remaian as part of that mob or not. However, as the author of this blog site has been pointing out for some time (even though some wannabes like the recently created jaggy blog don’t get it) there is no opting out of this issue.

      Because it’s one which transcends the specific issues in which it plays an active and negative part – whether it’s immigration, independence, racism, #MeToo, sex/gender, whatever.

      The question is, and not just for you but for anyone and everyone, is who are you going to turn to for support when the malign power of the Faustian Pact Fearghus has identified turns it’s attention to you?

    26. Beaker says:

      @Douglas MacMillan says:
      15 May, 2021 at 9:13 am
      “A little off topic but am I the only person who perceives a racist undertone to labelling Covid-19 variants based on the country they were first noted by science?”

      So is Legionnaires disease racist?

      Don’t start down that path. There is enough shit to deal with without adding to it.

    27. Breeks says:

      Truth be known, I think much of the corruption has it’s roots in incompetence. When a consultant or specialist screws up, if he’s not crucified for his error, he’s ‘owe one’ to all the other consultants, and he’s forevermore obliged to keep his trap shut if and when they screw up.

      That’s why much of the corruption is at it’s rawest whenever there are new businesses trying to open up or expand. They are unknown quantities, and thus pose a threat and cause instability in the greedy wee cliques which jealously proliferate wherever there is a teat to suckle providing access to public funding.

      I wasn’t aware, but it came as absolutely no surprise to me that Sturgeon was nearly struck off as a lawyer, but some “deal” was done to save face, and she was shuffled out the way without any lasting stigma on her career. I’m old fashioned. If someone deserves to be struck off, then have them struck off.

      Ah but, people can learn from their mistakes… people deserve a second chance. True, I agree… for mistakes, but in my experience, most rogues are not being rogues by mistake.

      The UK as a whole has a problem that the easiest way to get rid of incompetence in a big corporation or government is by promoting it. It’s often cheaper than sacking it, (especially if it knows where the skeletons are buried). I think the current SNP is just one example of the end product produced by that mentality. Doing the “right thing” is a totally alien concept and the least of their concerns. Their priority is getting out the shit, not cleaning it up.

      Oh, and don’t waste your time or breath going to Regulator or Ombudsman either… but that’s another story.

    28. oneliner says:

      @Captain Yossarian

      As a corollary to your sinking school story. A brief glance through the list of Glasgow School of Art Governors reveals several professional members capable of querying the lack of a sprinkler system and/or fire safety policy.

      They are, of course, well-connected, as is evidenced by the lack of ”’media”’ investigation. I’m sure many of them will have noteworthy art collections, some works having been purchased at pre degree show evenings.

    29. Strathy says:

      The Times: –

      ‘Women must have the right to question transgender identity without being abused, stigmatised or risking losing their job, the new head of Britain’s equalities watchdog has warned.

      In her first interview since taking office, the incoming chairwoman of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission said it was “entirely reasonable” for people to challenge the biological status of women who were born as men.’

      https://archive.is/KzeiR

    30. akenaton says:

      Athanasius…..Thank you.

      Capt Y…and you, just don’t start making me laugh on a full bladder!

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice one Chris, I just wish this kind of defiance and attitude could be transferred to the Scottish populous in general when it coms to independence and and forcing sturgeon to act on it.

      Sturgeon aside, we’ll need to take our independence for Westminster will never willingly agree to lets us leave this unfit for purpose union. So acts of defiance aimed at Westminster will need to become more common place.

      When I think of what the poor Palestinian folk are having to and have put up with for decades, yet they still stand tall, with stones against state of the art weapons, I realise that we in Scotland need to become far more pro-active on the independence front if we want to see an independent Scotland.

    32. Captain Yossarian says:

      We have the opinions of about 50No experts, Breeks. They all say the same thing; this building will never work. It’s like filling the tank of a petrol engined car with diesel. The doom-loop is caused by Holyrood and their lawyers and if they had just got back in their box and left the engineers to solve this, it would never have happened.

    33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      I’ve deleted a couple of comments here, one for breaking the off-topic rule and one because I’m afraid it very much IS racist to start yelling “OMG SHARIA LAW!” whenever you see anyone brown. These men were from India. It is not a Muslim country and does not practice Sharia law, and even if it did it would be irrelevant to this case, which is about (a) due process and (b) UK policies being imposed on Scotland by a government Scotland emphatically rejected just a week ago and Scotland not being able to determine its own immigration policy to address a very different situation to the UK’s.

    34. J.o.e says:

      Apologies or the links. Tried to sort them but clearly failed

    35. Mia says:

      “Kenmure St looked awfully staged to me”

      I must admit that the fact that it took place on Sturgeon’s constituency didn’t pass me either.

      I don’t think it is only about those permits they are trying to distract, Daisy. I think the powers that be are desperate to find ways to restore Sturgeon’s destroyed credibility as pro independent FM to push ALBA away and to restore the patience of yes supporters. Patience that this procrastinating queen has already exhausted.

      For as long as she is seen as lukewarm, too slow in progressing it or allergic to independence, there is a need in the political spectrum for ALBA and more and more people are going to look to ALBA for an alternative. That is what they are trying to stop.

      I suspect we are going to see an awful lot of similar staged events on the run to the council elections to whitewash her allergy to independence.

      But the problem with all these staged events being used to prop up Sturgeon’s pro indy credibility is that they fall flat at the minimum scrutiny:

      This woman has had control of the absolute majority of Scotland’s seats in Westminster for SIX YEARS. For the same length of time, her party has had the control of the absolute majority of FPTP seats in Holyrood and the highest share of the vote in the list seats too. We all know those unionists only got in by the back door thanks to a flawed system specifically designed to stop the most voted party to hold an absolute majority of the seats.

      The reality, is that the Parliament we have today is not that different to the one we had 5 years ago. Our parliament for the last five years could have done everything this woman claims this new parliament can do. We have now, as we had in May 2016 and 5 years before that, a pro indy majority that this woman has wasted.

      The mandate we have today for a referendum is not any better than the one we gave the SNP five years ago, mandate that this woman undemocratically and showing utter contempt for the people of Scotland let expire and has now simply brushed under the carpet because this woman could not be arsed in delivering it.

      So why all the pomp and ceremony? Why all the faux excitement in the press when things have not moved an inch since May 2016?

      I think it is because of ALBA. They simply cannot afford at this point to disappoint yes supporters even more, giving them a reason to turn their eyes on to ALBA and crush the SNP in the upcoming council elections and the GE after that.

      It is in her hands TODAY, as it has been in her hands for the last SIX YEARS, to change that immigration policy for Scotland. But she has chosen not to.

      That van turned up in Glasgow to remove those two people because she and her Justice Minister could not be arsed in doing anything to stop that happening for SIX YEARS, knowing that Scotland’s demographics are at risk.

      She appears to be quite relaxed and happy for the British state to continue foisting toxic policies over us so then, without bothering to lift a finger to remediate the problem, she can claim credit for the work done by the communities in Scotland.

      This is exactly what she has been doing with COVID. Because it is the health professionals and the people working in Contact tracing who have been breaking their backs doing all the hard work to try to keep us safe. And they have been set to fail by this woman keeping the borders continuously open so at the same time these health professionals were desperately working to keep the virus levels low and even to eradicate it as the procrastinating queen announced at one point, this woman was letting more virus to come into Scotland ensuring those health professionals could never eradicate the virus. Yet, it is this woman who is happily getting all the credit for the hard work of all those people.

    36. Robert Dickson says:

      Nice one Chris….but her arse isn’t fat enough

    37. gullaneno4 says:

      It was great to see the Polis being so passive.
      Doing as the UK Home Office instructed but with no malice towards the public.
      I wonder how the Glasgow scenario would have played out in Croydon. Polar opposite I would suspect.

    38. Republicofscotland says:

      The Scotsman prattling on about how those brave men and women in Kenmure street delegitimised the rule of UK law. I’d go as far as to say that Scotland will never become independent without delegitimising UK law.

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/kenmure-street-protest-against-glasgow-deportation-attempt-was-impressive-but-snp-support-raises-serious-concerns-about-the-rule-of-law-john-mclellan/ar-BB1gJHxi?ocid=msedgntp

    39. Breeks says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      15 May, 2021 at 9:55 am
      Sorry folks – I’m not buying the Kenmure St incident.

      Yeah maybe… I can see where you’re coming from, but I’ve also read the protest had it’s origins with neighbours in the first instance. They started the ball rolling, and the protest had genuinely organic roots, and genuinely resonated with their community. I’m sure the news clip I watched said they’d been living there ten years, so it does seem credible with a significant back story and build up… so I dunno.

      Must confess, I do want it to be true. The way things are going, it’s not a shot in the arm for COVID I need, it’s a wee bit faith restored that Scotland isn’t too far down the drain to save itself.

    40. Lee Floyd says:

      Are you all so blind, or so biased, as not to be able to appreciate that the Law must be upheld? That this isn’t about a Tory minister, a brown woman who has betrayed her race, an evil, fascist state, an uncompassionate policy, or the rights of Scottish people? This us about people who broke the law, are illegitimate occupiers if state and local resources, and who, if not subject to the Law, make no one dubject to the Law.
      If the protesters oppose the Law, remove or change it through parliamentary means. Grow up.

    41. Lee Floyd says:

      “UK policies being imposed on Scotland by a government Scotland emphatically rejected just a week ago and Scotland not being able to determine its own immigration policy to address a very different situation to the UK’s”.

      It’s puzzling. Scotland is part if the UK. The Law applies everywhere, all the time. A local election doesn’t alter either of these positions. You are talking utter tosh.

    42. Republicofscotland says:

      “Sorry folks – I’m not buying the Kenmure St incident.”

      Daisy Walker.

      That’s fair enough Daisy, but you can’t deny its stirred up a hornets nest and got people thinking maybe if I am a bit more defiant on Trident, or the lack of drug consumption rooms in Scotland due to Westminster saying no, or whatever Westminster policy or law that with regards to Scotland that irks you.

      So even if it was staged, for Sturgeons benefit, its still got Scots thinking and saying hang on a minute I/we can….

    43. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:
      15 May, 2021 at 8:51 am

      Dave Somerville says:
      15 May, 2021 at 7:09 am
      And do headlines like this in the front page of the National not just infuriate you?

      Not any more. It’s just the same con on intravenous drip. I’m tuned out now, just scrolling past, like you do with all the other trolls.

      Reply

      Same!

      It’s quite relaxing to be tuned out.

    44. Ruby says:

      I’m not sure what I think about this.
      Is it all tied up with the Indian trade deal?

      Seeing Aamer Anwar as part of the protest reminded my about his ‘

      “It’s a catalogue of sexual harassment, stalking, social media abuse, sexual innuendos, verbal sexual abuse, touching, sexual assaults, requests for sex, cover-up, isolation and bullying .”

      claim and why we never heard anything more about it.

      Not sure about Aamer Anwar either.

    45. Dave Hansell says:

      Lee Floydd,

      How many times does it need to be Janet and John’d for you?

      The law in this case – as in due process rights applicable to everyone on these islands – was most definitely was broken by the State and the Immigration Service.

      These two individuals are currently going through a process of law known as due process. It involves objective evidence and principles of innocent until proven guilty. That process has not been properly completed.

      By seeking to circumnavigate that process the State has not only made a mockery of the law it is also there to adhere to it is signalling very clearly that no one, not even you, is safe from the arbitrary exercise of unfettered power.

      Those who upheld the law and protected due process rights of everyone were those who took to the streets.

      So my question is do you, like the woke, actually believe in the rule of law and due process only for yourself and those you subjectively approve of and bigger everybody else or not.

      Your call son.

    46. Captain Yossarian says:

      That’s OK, Stu. Every word of it was true and I’m sure you will have guessed that. Off topic or not. This website gets things done and that’s why they hate you so much. I’m sure you know that too.

    47. Stuart MacKay says:

      Daisy Walker

      The Conservatives are not going to stop immigration, quite the opposite. Every immigrant competing for jobs pushes traditional Labour voters to the right as they think the Tories are going to curb immigration. Cheap labour and votes it’s a win-win situation for the right.

    48. Scozzie says:

      I could be way off the mark on this but wouldn’t the Home Office need to inform the Scottish Government and Police Scotland of intended dawn raids for deportations?
      Perhaps event the local Council too?

      Surely the local authorities need to know if someone’s getting pulled from their bed to be removed from the country.

      Just a thought…in which case if the authorities did know why didn’t they do their utmost to block it? Or were they too beholden to rock the WM boat and only when the community stood up the politicians decided to get all righteous on social media?

      I’m cynical on everything these days so as I said I may be very wide of the mark on this.

    49. Captain Yossarian says:

      ‘To get to the stage where an applicant is considered for deportation, there are many legal and administrative hurdles to clear. Everyone rejected claimant for asylum in the UK lodges an appeal. Judicial reviews inevitably follow, not to mention the involvement of local MPs. If, after all this, the Home Office has decided to remove someone, you can be sure it is only because all the legal avenues open to the claimants have been firmly and permanently closed.’

      Alison Thewlis is the local MP. She’ll be able to clear this-up. She was there; has anyone asked her?

    50. Ruby says:

      At the moment I’m with Daisy on this one!
      However I am open to persuasion.

      https://archive.is/K0Osw

      Ms Truss also stated that there would likely be changes in the UK immigration rules. With the UK relaxing immigration rules between India and the UK

      India deal could see more migrant workers enter UK
      https://archive.is/cif1h

    51. wull says:

      I think Mia and Daisy almost certainly have the Kenmure Street incident right: stage-managed by the Constituency MSP for Glasgow South, otherwise known as ‘First Minister’. If that is correct, instead of patting ourselves on the back for the ‘good’ (i.e. laid-back) ‘behaviour’ of the Glasgow Polis, shouldn’t their inaction be cause for concern? Isn’t it another sign of the politicisation of the Polis?

      If so, what happened in Kenmure Street might have to be interpreted as yet another sign that Polis Scotland acts on the orders of its political masters, instead of objectively and even-handedly applying the rule of law.

      I hope that such is not the case, of course. However, whenever there are signs of it, proper journalism ought to be investigating it. And, whenever necessary, exposing it. The Polis as an arm of the state, a mere tool of executive political power, is one of the surest signs of anti-democratic authoritarianism. All totalitarian regimes use this kind of thing.

      ALBA really has to start campaigning very publicly, and as quickly as possible, for the separation of powers. Not only as a basic clause to be embedded in a future Constitution for Scotland, but even now. It needs to be made applicable to the current Scottish administration (which likes to call itself ‘the Scottish Government’ although, in its current state, many of us might prefer to desist from according it such a name).

      ALBA may have no representative to raise such matters in Holyrood, but they should raise it whenever and wherever they can. That is, in every public forum where they can make their voice heard, and that includes through her two MPs at Westminster.

      I expect everyone in ALBA is aware of this, that they may be gathering as much information as they can on it, making sure they have got their facts absolutely right before launching out (which they may to some extent already have done), and keeping their powder dry until the moment becomes appropriate. I appreciate that the media blackout on ALBA makes for enormous strategic difficulties in planning such matters. Nevertheless, the moment for a sustained public campaign on this issue cannot be far away, and I do hope it will achieve high profile soon.

      This is in no way a criticism of ALBA, merely a suggestion for ALBA’s further consideration.

    52. @Douglas MacMillan,

      i was surprised when She/Her called this new strain of covid `the Indian strain/variant`

      i remember (maybe rightly ?) Trump getting pelters for calling covid the `China virus` `cause it was perceived to have originated in China,

      and when a new strain came from dan saff people were called xenophobic for calling it the `English strain`,

      the Indian community is getting enough stick from the UK State just now they don`t need She/Her (unintentionally ?)empowering racist minded people.

    53. Alf Baird says:

      Daisy Walker @ 9:55

      “Kenmure St looked awfully staged to me, a ‘win’ for oor wee Nicla, and a great big distraction from the Truss deal.”

      It also seems rather hypocritical that another pro-independence Scottish national elected majority of SNP/Green MSP’s whinge about UK immigration policy at the very same time as they are pledging their oath/affirmation to that same terrible UK regime for another 5 years and also taking their pay from it, instead of effectively deploying what is now the 6th Scottish national pro-independence elected majority (3 @ Holyrood, 3 @ Westminster) to declare and begin negotiating independence on behalf of the sovereign Scottish people.

      How many nationalist parliamentary majorities does it take for independence? In most ex colonies one was enough, and they didn’t even have Scotland’s advantage of an established national sovereignty or a treaty to withdraw from.

    54. Ruby says:

      How did the protester know the the ‘Immigration van’ was on it’s way?

      I have some doubts about labelling people racist, transphobic, etc etc etc.

      This looks a little like denying people freedom of speech.
      The PC Brigade started it and the SNP’s Hate Crime Bill will make it law.

    55. John H says:

      @Douglas MacMillan says:
      15 May, 2021 at 9:13 am
      “A little off topic but am I the only person who perceives a racist undertone to labelling Covid-19 variants based on the country they were first noted by science?”

      How does the ‘Kent Variant’ fit into this theory.

    56. Douglas MacMillan says:

      What’s the difference between ‘staged’, ‘coordinated’ and ‘organised’ (or is there one)?

      Answers on a postcard …..

    57. Wee Chid says:

      Lee Floyd says:
      15 May, 2021 at 10:31 am

      Did you not read David Hansell’s post at 09.57? It has not been determined that the immigrants were illegal and due process has not been followed. Should we just suspend habeas corpus too? Wait until they come for you.

    58. Ruby says:

      The ‘PC Brigade’ with their accusations of racism prevented people voicing their opinions about immigration.

      Which may have led to the ‘shock result’ in England for Brexit.

      I’m all for people voicing their opinions without them being charged with a crime under the SNP’s HCB.

    59. susanXX says:

      Non PC view i know but exactly WHY do we need immigrants from culturally dissimilar areas? To do shitty jobs? Now isn’t THAT racist? Why not just encourage the people who ARE already here to stay and maybe have bigger families?

    60. Dave Somerville says:

      Extraordinary David Millar Arial view video of the Kenmure St incident which forced the Police to retreat.

      We urra peepel

      https://mobile.twitter.com/david_millar/status/1392969258989150208

    61. Luigi says:

      Last Thursdays incident in Kenmure Street was a fine demonstration of who is really sovereign. When it comes to the crunch its us the ordinary folk who are sovereign and don’t let em fool you otherwise. The British establishment ruled a vadt empire for hundreds of years by clever bluff. They fooled the natives that they were too poor too stupid to rule themselves. This deception continues in Scotland. Sadly many people still buy into it but more and more are waking up. When the number of aware people reaches critical point the UK is finished. Its only a matter of time.

    62. Ottomanboi says:

      Scot Finlayson 11:12
      A few years ago my parents took me to India. I had vaccines prior to going. I was unwell wih flu like symptoms during the long time I was there. The air is heavy with fuel and agricultural burning pollutants. Major cities are atmospheric disaster zones and respiratory conditions in children and the elderly are very common.. I remember a people who looked exhausted, unhealthy and even “depressed» but bore it all with fatalistic resignation.
      The Modi régime masks its failings by blaming the virus when it is corruption, third rate politicians and advisors who do far more damage. The anglicized Indian rich, of course, rise above all this. All a far cry from the India of Gandhiji.
      Covid has made the global rich richer and given them control beyond reason. No wonder they enjoy herding hundreds of millions in their evil power game.

    63. Captain Yossarian says:

      Wee Chid says:
      15 May, 2021 at 11:35 am

      The correct legal process was followed.

    64. Ruby says:

      Strathy says:
      15 May, 2021 at 10:06 am
      The Times: –

      ‘Women must have the right to question transgender identity without being abused, stigmatised or risking losing their job, the new head of Britain’s equalities watchdog has warned.

      In her first interview since taking office, the incoming chairwoman of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission said it was “entirely reasonable” for people to challenge the biological status of women who were born as men.’

      https://archive.is/KzeiR

      Reply

      Excellent link thank you Strathy!

      I wonder if we will see any protests re denial of women’s rights?

      I have a feeling we won’t as it’s not trendy!

      Women’s rights don’t matter?

    65. MaggieC says:

      Chris ,

      Thank you , An excellent cartoon once again .

    66. akenaton says:

      Excellent news….One small victory worth celebrating.
      I cannot understand the position of many women in my area who voted SNP/Greens in the election, when you try to get into a discussion over freedom of speech or the amendments to the GRA, they will not hear it, switching off and retaliating with vicious lies about Alex Salmond or simply repeating their admiration for St Nicolass.
      It must surely be more than politics?

    67. Stephen says:

      Akenaton
      They have switched off
      /
      Well observed.
      The trick is how to switch them back on again.
      That is the task ahead.

    68. akenaton says:

      Wee Child, I’m sure that there is more chance of Sturgeon and her brigands “coming after me” than the local constabulary.

      The SNP have broken every rule in the book and are beginning to write their own laws, be very afraid!

    69. akenaton says:

      Steven, Switching women on is well above my pay grade….these days.

    70. akenaton says:

      Apologies STEPHEN.

    71. Stuart MacKay says:

      Ruby

      It’s a pity then that women are no longer defined by their sex but by their gender.

      Women can challenge the biological status of trans women morning, noon and night; all day every day; 24 by 7 and 365 days a year. It’s not going to change anything.

      In fact all it will do is distract them while the real work of dismantling their rights, not their biological status continues unopposed.

    72. Ruby says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      15 May, 2021 at 12:36 pm
      Ruby

      It’s a pity then that women are no longer defined by their sex but by their gender.

      Women can challenge the biological status of trans women morning, noon and night; all day every day; 24 by 7 and 365 days a year. It’s not going to change anything.

      In fact all it will do is distract them while the real work of dismantling their rights, not their biological status continues unopposed.

      Reply

      Are you suggesting that it’s hopeless and we should just give up?

      Do you think we could never see a similar protest to the one just seen in Glasgow?

      Do people in Scotland care more about illegal immigrants & men self-identifying as women than they do about women?

      It’s very depressing!

    73. Ruby says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      15 May, 2021 at 11:48 am
      Extraordinary David Millar Arial view video of the Kenmure St incident which forced the Police to retreat.

      We urra peepel

      https://mobile.twitter.com/david_millar/status/1392969258989150208

      Reply

      That’s amazing footage!

      Are the protesters chanting about refugees?

      Are these men refugees or illegal immigrants?

    74. Ruby says:

      https://archive.is/vrUYc

      “Government drops self-identification plan for trans people”

      Maybe time for voters who have been women all their lives to start voting NO & for the Tory Party.

    75. akenaton says:

      susanXX I agree with every word you say and have done so for years, the UK’s parasitic dependence on immigration is a disgrace and one of the main reasons I support an independent Scotland where families can thrive the kids have jobs and we all develop a measure of National pride. We may all be slightly worse of financially, but socially we will be fulfilling our potential as human beings. My hopes in that direction have taken a battering lately as our people seem to confused to see what is being done to them under the guise of Nationalism.

      Unregulated economic immigration is not only bad for us, but even more so for the countries of origin of these people, their best leaving for a new life while their nation and its infrastructure decays around them.

      As I said the immigration system is parasitic in nature and was enhanced further by Blair and his supporters.
      It seems that the arrest of the two people from Kenmuir St was legal and when we are independent we cannot operate without the process of law. A free Scotland would not and should not allow “mob rule”

    76. Captain Yossarian says:

      Ruby says: They were asylum claimants, Ruby. Their MP is Alison Thewliss. She will have been kept informed of the procedure and she is supposed to make representations, privately, on their behalf. I was in Africa once and a Scotsman was deported for kicking down a door and I was in the Middle-East when an Irishman was deported for being drunk. We’re just applying the law and if we didn’t do that then the trains would be full of asylum claimants heading for Pollokshields.

    77. akenaton says:

      Thanks of women everywhere are due to Liz Truss, wish she was a nationalist.
      If the UK is split by this ruling, surely even those women with hands over ears will begin to understand?

    78. Liz g says:

      The why’s and the wherefores of the Kenmuir St incident are indeed intreguing, nevertheless , I do hope it has at the very least become something that the Indy movement are united about and more importantly inspired by.
      The Westminister Goverment , unsupported in Scotland, used the powers of the Union to impose a policy also broadly unsupported in Scotland.
      The problem here is the powers of the Union Parliament, on that at least we can all agree.

      The so called left on this island seem to demand a come one come all policy and to reject that is portrayed as racist.
      This is used as politicans are inclined to do, as a tool to manipulate those who do want to reject all forms of racism.
      The so called Right on this island seem on the face of it to be the polar opposite and demand that the resources of the island be protected for the people of the island.
      They too manipulate those who agree that’s a priority by using the nature of the “Tribe” inherent in us all.
      The Left are cautious about the fear of being impoverished and over run.
      The right are cautious about allowing the racism they stoke full reign.
      Neither are wrong and Neither are correct.
      The answer , as usual, is somewhere in the middle.
      If we are honest…

      We live on the top half of an island…everybody knows that , I hope .
      Most of us here are not particularly wealthy and it’s very easy to point out that as much as we would want to share what we have we can’t help everyone .
      This is an open door for those who want to create fear and doubt about Holyrood having the power to throw open the door to everyone to push at.
      Also to create the support in England for Westminister to be ” robust ” in maintaining control of Scotland ( not forgetting those English who feel protected by Trident and don’t appreciate it being threatened ) and generate support for the Union in Scotland for much the same reasons.

      As I see it what we fail to get across is Scotland’s real situation in this matter, the SNP and a lot of the Yes movement are caught up in the language of the left and it scares the middle as much as it scares the right.
      I’ve never yet heard anyon explain that Scotland could quite comfortably double its population to 10 million + and still be nowhere near London’s ( just London ) 70+ million.
      Never yet heard of a proposal to manage that increase for our benefit that the powers of Independance would surly give us.
      To speak of immigration fearlessly and honestly.
      That we need people we need them to earn and spend.
      That will need to make our peace with the fact that the new people won’t be like “us”
      That we need to embrace what they will bring.
      And
      That we can design and implement immigration rules to suit us with a modern eye .

      We need to start pointing out why London is so wealthy.
      And most of all we need to think how we can achieve the population growth we need in our own way.
      London has no real overall framework of immigration design it has a reactive and polarising one, struggling under the weight of having to adapt beyond the 17th century.
      Scotland can design an immigration policy for the modern interconnected world without all that baggage.
      There are no more “New Worlds ” and we could take some lessons from the US and Australia’s history too , while their open door soon had to be closed the wealth and strength or those nations came directly from immigration.
      We need to look and learn.
      Because if we don’t we will be stuck on the London model of immigration ping pong and endlessly played by the Left and Right or, worst still enough of us played by Westminster into staying in this bloody Union.
      This island is modelled on funding London and I don’t blame Westminister for it but we have to be very aware that a big part of the success of London is to make sure that there is no competition for it on this island.
      Race ,Creed or Colour has very little do do with it except as tools of minipulation,it’s all Politics and it always has been.

      If the Rev is right ( when has he not been ?) we’ve time now…. ld say let’s use some of it to be thinking what we’d do with immigration, after all it’s something every normal country has to deal with and that’s exactly what we’re looking to be, is it no ?

    79. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Another “SNP 1 and 2” arsehole has got the neck to still show her face in Wings.

      Have you no shame?

    80. MaggieC says:

      akenaton @ 12.18 pm

      “ I cannot understand the position of many women in my area who voted SNP/Greens in the election, when you try to get into a discussion over freedom of speech or the amendments to the GRA, they will not hear it, switching off and retaliating with vicious lies about Alex Salmond or simply repeating their admiration for St Nicolass
      .

      It may be worth telling them about For Women (dot) Scot ,

      They are a non political organisation with excellent information on their website ,

      https://forwomen.scot/

      And their twitter account ,

      https://mobile.twitter.com/ForwomenScot/with_replies

    81. Dave Somerville says:

      Ruby 12.50

      Re, Kenmure video.

      For me personally, it put some pride back into my soul.

      Sturgeon has drained every ounce of pride I had in my country and this video managed to replace some of it.

      We need more people power Demos.

      Like a mass demo outside that horrible bastard Sturgeon’s house.

    82. Ruby says:

      Liz g says:
      And most of all we need to think how we can achieve the population growth we need in our own way.

      Reply
      Depends if you want home grown population growth or a never ending stream of immigrants.
      If you want home grown population growth then
      top of the list would be to find out how not to piss off voters who have been women all their lives.

      These are the people you are reliant on for home grown population growth.

      Sure transmen can have babies but do you really want your population growth to be reliant on people taking heavy duty drugs?

      If you want an independent Scotland you probably need to convince voters who have been women all their lives not to vote NO and for the Tories & their ‘no self id policy’

    83. Republicofscotland says:

      “Are you all so blind, or so biased, as not to be able to appreciate that the Law must be upheld?”

      Lee Floyd.

      Who’s law might that be, the law of Westminster, why should a foreign country have the say of who can and cannot live in Scotland.

    84. Meg merrilees says:

      The incident in Glasgow was heartening to see. I don’t think it was staged.
      My understanding is that Scottish police are not tasked with helping the UK border force, they were trying to keep the incident safe. ( possibly a naive view to hold!) we are led to believe that if was the chief of Scottish police who finally decided to end the stand off for safety reasons- though that could be a useful peg to hang of all on.
      Do we know who gave the final order to release the ‘victims’?

      I doubt if Scotland will truly become Independent until the people are as motivated to take to the streets en masse to protest ( peacefully) for our freedom and to reject UK rule as vigorously.
      Indy will not be won purely by the ballot paper. Peaceful crowds on every street will demonstrate our opinions and are less easy to ignore than a large box of ballot papers.

    85. Shug says:

      Instead of closing why not relaunch as wings over alba

    86. Republicofscotland says:

      “The incident in Glasgow was heartening to see. I don’t think it was staged.”

      Nor do I meg, it was heartwarming to see Muslims coming out to defend Hindus, as well as other ethnicities doing the same. If we all took a leaf out of their book in defending Scotland from the machinations of Westminster, that would surely put us one step closer to dissolving this rotten onesided union.

    87. Ruby says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      15 May, 2021 at 1:31 pm
      Ruby 12.50

      Re, Kenmure video.

      For me personally, it put some pride back into my soul.

      Sturgeon has drained every ounce of pride I had in my country and this video managed to replace some of it.

      We need more people power Demos.

      Like a mass demo outside that horrible bastard Sturgeon’s house.

      Reply

      Agreed about power demos.

      Did the people in that area not vote for the horrible ‘She/Her Bitch’?

      Where is the ‘She/Her Bitch’s’ house?

      She doesn’t live at Bute House. She only goes there to entertain.

    88. Confused says:

      Amazing how much coverage this all got – stinks of a propaganda event.

      The govt giving the nod to, um, “mass civil disobedience” and defiance of the law? Let’s see what happens if AUOB decide to do “occupations of Holyrood” and see how quick the horses arrive.

      As for the case itself, you could huckle the guys in the middle of the night, or even just lift them before noon, while most of the mob are in bed.

      If you wanted the SUPPORT of the mob you could put it out on twitter that SIKH EXTREMIST TRANSPHOBES were being sent back to where they belong for MISGENDERING a lovely woman called Brenda and refusing to have sex with her, despite her lovely 7 inch cock.

      – in the future you will have the support of lynch mobs by claiming your target “refused to be vaccinated”

      We seem to have a 3 speed police force these days – they either

      SHITE IT – e.g. from Sevco/Fake-Rangers fans
      DO NOTHING – from wokists
      KICK YOUR FUCKING HEAD IN – otherwise

    89. James Che. says:

      The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, being devolved
      It’s the Scottish people that are sovereign.
      The Scottish people are so used to being a underdog. They cannot bring themselves to believe, that it is a powerful instrument.
      It’s like a boil on their nose every time they look in a mirror, but they are to scared to Lance it themselves, so go to a quack doctor ( or in this case quack politicians) to remove it with dirty instruments.
      The boil on the nose could be removed quite safely and clinically by themselves.
      Sovereignty is a boil that stares us in the face everyday,
      And the Scots ignore it or go ask for help from quacks, as being in control themselves is a enormous fear,
      Bigger than the boil

    90. PaulaJ says:

      “Like so much of the narrative with Covid, we find messaging from the State that is far from neutral or science based.”

      A bit like the “UK variant” was bandied about in Europe a short while ago?

    91. Stuart MacKay says:

      Ruby

      > Are you suggesting that it’s hopeless and we should just give up?

      Absolutely not but you have to recognise when you’re being fed bullshit.

      Always pay very close attention to the words – weasels don’t get to be Weasel in Chief by being honest.

      Sincere apologies to mustelids everywhere.

    92. Dan says:

      Liz g says: at 1:13 pm

      And most of all we need to think how we can achieve the population growth we need in our own way.

      Do you think my recent attempts at transing will be beneficial to the cause of increasing the number of Scottish bairns?
      I’m now having reservations on my brave transing endevours with regard to whether it will assist in me managing to procreate before I return to being space compost.
      Especially after recalling the mistake I made of listening to btl commenter C. Griffiths who adamantly stated “TransWomen are Women”, only for me to find some pretty fuckin serious docking port compatibility issues with the TW model I was paired with through a dating agency.
      That was 30 quid of administration charges wasted for opening up (and swiftly closing again) the search parameters for locating potential partners, and a significant loss to my beer and wine fund. 🙁

      Though if I am honest, I’ve been busy as fook sorting tractors, lawnmowers, cars, and motorbikes this week, so with that workload on top of gardening and nursing seedlings through the crap cold temps we are enduring, I haven’t had a moment or the energy spare to even think about my transing or shagging…

    93. Dave Somerville says:

      Ruby 1.48pm

      I suppose the main body of the Kenmure crowd came from far and wide, and for that particular occasion they put party Politics aside.

      And as for voting Sturgeon back into office, well I’m totally confused on that one.

    94. Captain Yossarian says:

      ‘This week’s display of community power in action was undoubtedly impressive, but as a party of government, the SNP either supports law and order or it doesn’t.’ THE SCOTSMAN

    95. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The irony for the Independence movement is:

      The People of Scotland are sovereign – however, the wider Independence movement has NEVER persuaded a majority of that sovereign people to support Independence at the ballot box.

      The Tories’ 80-seat majority in the House of Commons, thereafter allows them to continually say “No” to an Independence referendum. Undemocrativ this may be, given the electoral support for Independence, but, this is what the system allows them to do.

      The wider Independence movement COULD try embarrassing the Tories into agreeing to an Independence Referendum, however, I do not see this working with the current Tory Party.

      It seems quite clear, the Independence movement needs a bit of left-field thinking, to come-up with other ways of breaching the Tories’ dam of resistance.

      Back in 1951 Wendy Wood and the rest of the Scottish Covenant Association persuaded 2,000,000 Scots to sign The Scottish Covenant. At the time, the total Scottish Electorate was just over 3,500,000; while the turnout in Scotland was 2,776,333.

      Therefore, by any measure the Covenant was supported by over 50|% of the Scottish electorate. The Covenant was only seeking Devolution, rather than Independence, but still, Westminster said “No,” which indicates what will probably happen if an updated Covenant was to be launched, signed and presented to Parliament.

      So, thinking out of the box:

      Why not a 21st century Covenant, signed by more than 50% of the Sovereign People of Scotland, but, presented to Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, rather than the UK Parliament; reminding the Queen of Scots of her obligation to uphold the rights of the Sovereign People of Scotland.

      If nothing else, the international furore which inaction by the Queen of Scots or the UK Parliament might trigger could be a game-changer.

    96. Cenchos says:

      No party ever ‘wins’ an election.

      They just move one process closer to being voted out.

    97. Les Wilson says:

      Just to report, butchers aprons flying all over Lanark today. This was a Westminster threat.
      Well it has been done yet anything over 6ft requires permission, and this is an SNP council??
      make your own mind up, but this will only be the start to ” unionise” Scotland.
      By the nefarious Tory Westminster and it’s so called allies.

      Just passing it on, as it is likely coming to a place near you.

    98. Les Wilson says:

      Just to report, butchers aprons flying all over Lanark today. This was a Westminster threat.
      Well it has been done yet anything over 6ft requires permission, and this is an SNP council??
      make your own mind up, but this will only be the start to ” unionise” Scotland.
      By the nefarious Tory Westminster and it’s so called allies.

      Just to let you know as it is also coming to a place near you.

    99. DJ says:

      Socrates MacSporran

      Why not a 21st century Covenant, signed by more than 50% of the Sovereign People of Scotland, but, presented to Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, rather than the UK Parliament; reminding the Queen of Scots of her obligation to uphold the rights of the Sovereign People of Scotland.

      I really like that idea, Socrates.
      But…..

      Over the last couple of years, I’ve lost count of the number of covenants I’ve signed. And then nothing ever comes of any of them!

    100. James Che. says:

      One of the biggest problems we have today, is that most of Scotland’s populations have no idea they are sovereign.
      They seem to think that the power of being sovereign is unimportant,does not override politicians.
      It seriously does.
      It is people power with all the knobs on.it is legal people power. It is complementary to the right to self determination, to Alba, to the grassroots movement, to the declaration of Arbroath, it is you’re legal status.
      HOW on earth do we wake others up?
      I do keep on about it I know,
      This is the same problem Rev Stu had when trying to wake others up to how corrupt the Scottish politicians had become, so he was persistent.
      This is all I can do. Be persistent and hope others wake up to how important sovereignty is to the people of Scotland.

    101. kapelmeister says:

      Les Wilson @2:56

      I take it the UJ decorations are for Lanark’s forthcoming Lanimers Day event. If so, that would be politicizing what is supposed to be a non-political traditional celebration for the whole town.

    102. Mia says:

      “Scotland is part if the UK”

      So why is it that only what England MPs decide becomes law?

      “The Law applies everywhere”
      For the law to apply “everywhere”

      Today, the immigration needs of England, whose population growth has increased since 1707, are diametrically opposed to those of Scotland, whose population growth continues to decline since 1707. For that law to be applicable to “everywhere” two conditions must apply:

      1. that it is dictated in a way that benefits Scotland and England in the same way and in the same measure. – It does not. it only benefits England and it is detrimental to Scotland’s demographics.

      2. that it is accepted both by England and Scotland in the same way. Clearly the people of Scotland does not accept immigration law dictated by England MPs who only have the interests of England in mind and whose “laws” are exacerbating the demographic needs of Scotland rather than tackling those needs.

      For as long as England MPs continue to ignore the needs and wants of the people of Scotland, the people of Scotland can continue to ignore the needs, wants and laws written by England MPs with only England in mind.

    103. Tannadice Boy says:

      Captain Yossarian 2:39pm
      I have never broken the law. Not even a parking ticket. But the SG is governing for half the country. As recent events have shown they pick and choose the laws they comply with. And use the Judiciary and Institutions to support them. What an example to the rest of us. What goes round comes round. They will be on the receiving end shortly. On the specifics of this case I am inclined to show compassion.

    104. Liz g says:

      Ruby @ 1.32
      *****Liz g says:
      And most of all we need to think how we can achieve the population growth we need in our own way.

      Reply
      Depends if you want home grown population growth or a never ending stream of immigrants.
      If you want home grown population growth then
      top of the list would be to find out how not to piss off voters who have been women all their lives.

      These are the people you are reliant on for home grown population growth.
      *****

      I was talking of Immigration only Ruby and a ” home grown ” framework for it.
      I wasn’t and wouldn’t be so crass as go down the road of suggesting Goverment try to be meddling with the birth rate which is a disgusting proposal so many levels. Not to mention very little to do with the Gender debate.
      Also if you take another read at my comment, you’ll observe that I mentioned we are the top half of an island ( twice I think ) therefore ” an endless stream of immigration ” is no an option for us and is just a throw away statement pushed down on to the hard of thinking and fearful ,therefore no a position I’m likely to consider.

      I advocate unashamedly for Scotland’s interests and on this particular issue don’t buy the narrative Westminister is selling.
      London might very well be full and Westminister need to act.
      Westminister may very well keep who it needs for London and create gettos in England’s satellite city’s
      That’s a matter for the English voter to investigate or make their peace with, but we should not pretend to ourselves that Westminister isn’t manipulating the narrative here because Ruby, it’d be a bloody first.

      E.G. Boris Johnston proclaimed not so long ago all of Hong Kong ( 3 million + )could resettle here in the UK did he no ?
      While we all know it was his usual verbal diahorrea it horrified some….
      Hypothetical I know Ruby but think about that as a Scotland only proposal and it will clarify for you your real feeling on immigration.
      Suppose we took them all
      We wouldn’t even have doubled our population we’d still be under 10 million.
      Then look at what the people of Hong Kong have made of their island .
      Think of what that industry and innovation could do here for Scotland.
      Would you weccome them?
      Would you get behind the massive job creating effort to build a Scotland that could accommodate them, cause we have the room here Ruby .
      Would you be calculating what a supercharged pension you’d have with all that revenue sloshing about in this country.
      Would you see well educated hard working new Scott’s
      Or not ???
      Would you worry how many shooting estates would get squeezed out?
      Would you be concerned that they’d all fuck off over the border to steal English jobs?
      Would you mind how they spoke , who they married or if their kids did well at school?
      Would it matter if they saw no real benefit to the Windsors?
      Do you care that it would destroy the Westminister myths over immigration?
      Because all of those negatives are Westminister concerns have have little to do with Scotland, we may very well find some issues but it isn’t anything on the Westminister list.

      So Ruby don’t you think we should identify what are the Scottish immigration concerns and explore them to find solutions and not parrot the Westminister narrative and deflection about it ?

    105. Captain Yossarian says:

      Tannadice Boy – Can I presume you support the Arabs, sir? On the footballing theme – Remember when Rangers supporters gathered outside Ibrox and George Sq to celebrate winning the league? John Swinney said the silence from inside Ibrox was deafening. Sturgeon girned something about putting the lives of the police needlessly at risk.

      Can you explain why this is somehow different? Why this should be applauded by all right thinking Scots? I think it’s just the same, but I might be wrong. As you say, they pick and choose the laws that support their purpose and do they really have any feckin purpose nowadays?

    106. PaulaJ says:

      “or the lack of drug consumption rooms in Scotland due to Westminster saying no”

      That bit interested me, since presumably there are no such rooms south of the border either, yet Scotland’s drug problem seems to be worse than the rest of the UK. Is it suggested as a stopgap measure, or is it supposed to allay the problem somehow?

    107. James Che. says:

      A better use of our sovereignty would metaphorical kick a lot of doors down and into oblivion.
      Including the woke laws and hate crime bill.

      .

    108. PaulaJ says:

      I suppose the problem with the police enforcing those parts of the law with which they agree has brought us to the state where they’re more interested in what you might have said at your own dinner table than they are with sorting out who burgled your home or assaulted your gran.

    109. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 4:00pm
      You are right in the context of the law both events are wrong. Yes I am Arab but a fitba supporter in general. So what happens when you contextualised the law, we can see on our TV now. Rangers supporters marching towards George Square. What did you expect when hundreds were out in Pollocksheilds yesterday. The law applies to everybody or nobody. Of course Nickla and the SNP trashed the law. Reap the consequences.

    110. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Do you notice how the girlie SNP 1 and 2 commenters NEVER EVER critisize their Cult Leader.

      Look at their posts.

      They go off on some weird, irrelevant and Squirrelly tangent, in the hope of dragging us all in that direction.

      Don’t mention the war.

      It’s been noted.

      They don’t like their Witch Sturgeon being the brunt of any forensic scrutiny.

    111. Effigy says:

      Laws and being equal?

      I’m neither Catholic or a Celtic fan but I’m appalled
      at how a few weeks ago the police watched and joined
      in with Drunk Rangers fans drinking in public, singing
      sectarian songs, smashing up George Square’s benches,
      Letting off incendiary devices, littering, fighting, urinating
      and breaking the Covid Lockdown rules by travelling out
      of their Council area and being in close contact with uncontrolled crowds.

      Maybe the Unionist Police were just caught out by surprise with all this so they
      made sure all the warnings went out that this couldn’t happen again and with
      Glasgow remaining in very strict Covid conditions, due to an outbreak of the most
      transmittable Covid variant from India they just couldn’t condone it?

      It’s all happening again right now.
      It happened last night too.

      We can feel save that our Police force are picking up overtime again in order to watch it being replayed.

      Thankfully the Police and SNP council can trace, prosecute and imprison the organiser of an
      AUOB March in the same city for starting a peaceful, controlled and joyous March a little earlier
      than originally planned.

      So there we have it AUOB marchers, next time break as many laws as you can, be threatening
      and abusive and the police and SNP Council will warm to you!

    112. Ruby says:

      Liz g says:
      So Ruby don’t you think we should identify what are the Scottish immigration concerns

      Reply

      It could be a waste of time if we don’t have freedom of speech to discuss immigration concerns.

    113. James Che. says:

      As to our population growth, one of the factors that goes totally unrecognised is the changes in law that structure a family unit,
      If women no longer have support of their partners financially, or the governments, looking after their own children becomes second priority to having to go out to work to earn a crust, they often can only support one child,
      These hidden changes in law have altered the family unit.
      when I was growing up dads went out to work with a sense of pride that they could look after and support their own families, buy their own cars, and have hobbies. Supply extra food from their own gardens and maybe a few hens and eggs.
      The very fabric is torn asunder when a man can not hold his head up with pride because he has now become redundant, from work, from his family, from a unit that has taken place for thousands of years, and having a sense of purpose and belonging within his family unit taken away from him.
      As to the woman of the home, they no longer stay within the house during the day as women have had to become the supporters of the household finances, when a child falls mum is not there, it’s a stranger that picks them up, when a child needs advise, mum and dad are no longer there, it’s a stranger that feeds them the advice, when you’re child is ready to learn sex eduecation from a loving caring family unit, mother and father are not at home or in the garden, it’s schools and governments that give you’re child sex advice.
      And we can see how dangerous that is when it’s out of control with woke agendas. the connections, between sons and daughters, mothers and fathers has been eroded with purpose,
      you’re children are being raised by the authorities, they are no longer in a family unit.
      Families units used to be larger in numbers, the parents had the time to share the input of of raising their children.
      The answer does not lie with importing other parents and children to our shores, to become as badly treated here as we treat our own family units.
      The answer to increase the population of Scotland starts with decent homes and a sense of pride in what parents can achieve and security for children in a family to grow and thrive within,
      The safety of anyone in the family should be protected by laws and punishable accordingly for the families benefit.
      But not to tear families out of each other’s arms to place them in possible further danger of abuse or child molesters in woke safe spaces.
      The Family should be reinstated to its original status that worked for thousands of years, not this broken disjointed version of where the government raise you’re children like in China.

      .

    114. Ruby says:

      PaulaJ says:
      15 May, 2021 at 4:04 pm
      “or the lack of drug consumption rooms in Scotland due to Westminster saying no”

      That bit interested me, since presumably there are no such rooms south of the border either, yet Scotland’s drug problem seems to be worse than the rest of the UK. Is it suggested as a stopgap measure, or is it supposed to allay the problem somehow?

      Reply
      Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
      Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?

      Do you think being colonised is the root cause?

    115. Liz g says:

      Ruby @ 4.38
      ***
      It could be a waste of time if we don’t have freedom of speech to discuss immigration concerns.

      ******

      Now on that we are in complete agreement 🙂

    116. Ruby says:

      Labour 4 Indy says:
      15 May, 2021 at 4:30 pm
      Do you notice how the girlie SNP 1 and 2 commenters NEVER EVER critisize their Cult Leader.

      Look at their posts.

      Reply

      Can you point me to these posts so that I can do as you requested?

    117. James Che. says:

      If we want our population to grow, then we have to treat families with a much higher regard and respect, give them houses without mould, decent gardens and green parks to play in with safety, help financially to establish, work or self employment help up the ladder,
      By growing our families and employment we grow our economy.
      Importing other parents and children into the same mess through immigration is like putting wallpaper over giant cracks.

    118. Liz g says:

      James Che @ 4.52
      While I’m sure you dont mean to James you comment horrified me.
      Going backwards is not the answer.
      Between you and Ruby you seem to have both suggested putting women back into being dependent on marriage and breeding the new Scots we need.
      Never mind returning men to the periffral role for their children and being unable to become unable to work
      How about abolishing a 40 hour week then both parents can work part time and raise their children on an equal basis.
      Make the 20 hour week pay and allow time to spend into the economy as well.
      Not to mention one parent available almost all of the time too?
      Ye never know mibbi well start a trend

    119. Dan says:

      No doubt I’ll be accused of straying into the dodgy area of eugenics… But I would have concerns over the intellect of any offspring produced if mating with someone that thought #BothVotesSNP was a good idea…

      Anyway, due to the continuing modern clearances occurring round my way resulting in an abundance of empty holiday homes or locals moved on and houses now occupied with old wrinkly Tory voters from darn south, it’s highly unlikely this will be an issue.

    120. Confused says:

      The Chief DOGGER has an article in the Nash-NIL – I love the way he NEVER GIVES UP, NEVER STOPS FIGHTING

      to pay his own mortgage.

      – shame it was paywalled and I could not savour the pedestrian prose of a master (baiter). Still, I can always get it on the blog where Petra – “the REVS no 1 fan (Kathy Bates style)” resides. I hope she never calls Kavanaugh a “dirty birdy”.

    121. Sylvia says:

      “Sorry folks – I’m not buying the Kenmure St incident.”

      Daisy Walker

      I am with you Daisy. I have seen posts on Twitter claiming NS was informed in advance – that doesn’t sit with me. This has all the trademarks of “games being played”.

    122. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Effigy 4:35pm
      The law equally applies to everybody. The problem is the interpretation and implementation of the law. And when it is not enforced because it has an SNP hat on then there are problems. Simples.

    123. susanXX says:

      So when we march on holyrood we will be protected

    124. Pixywine says:

      Nice race hustle. CNN style.

    125. Ruby says:

      Liz g says:
      15 May, 2021 at 5:16 pm
      James Che @ 4.52
      While I’m sure you dont mean to James you comment horrified me.
      Going backwards is not the answer.
      Between you and Ruby you seem to have both suggested putting women back into being dependent on marriage and breeding the new Scots we need.

      Reply

      Now! Now! Liz stop twisting what I said.

      I made no mention of marriage.

      Who is going to breed the new Scots if it’s not people who have been women all their lives?

      Sure ‘transmen’ could probably have babies but risky if they are taking high doses of testosterone.

      I was just suggesting that people who have been women all their lives who are prepared to reproduce hence increasing the population should be treated with more respect.

      Basically I’m thinking those people might want to go on strike. No rights for people who have been women all their lives – no babies.

      PS What is the politically correct term for a person with a womb?

    126. J.o.e says:

      People who fail to see the fact that any nation that wishes to continue to exist needs to have children, which requires families, are in denial of reality in the same way the trans activists are.

      Absolutely agree that the state of the economy is completely at odds with this, and needs fixed. But in the end natural requirements prevail and we are at their mercy.

      If the idea is to import ‘new scots’ then I ask a hypothetical – if all Scots women were to suddenly to decide to never allow themselves to get pregnant and instead we made up the numbers by importing others from elsewhere would the Scots as a people still exist after 50 years?

      To say they would is as unrealistic as pretending a man can ever become a woman. Instead we’d have a hodgepodge population that occupies the land of Scotland who mostly remember and respect their heritage while the actual Scots, who were hoodwinked into forgetting theirs, would be extinct.

      So with that hypothetical you can pretty much say that any nation that wishes to continue onward should put the health of its families and children 1st.

      Ethnicity isn’t everything but it does count. Everybody from outside of Europe are allowed to express this. We aren’t.

      The ugly truth is we now have a government that embraces every single possible identity, and a few that are just bad ideas, but will bend over backwards to never mention the Scots as definable people with a heritage.

      That’s why we are more often termed ‘people of Scotland (the country)’ in Holyrood newspeak and less ‘the Scots’ (the nation).

      The political betrayal is the easier part to see. The more fundamental ongoing betrayal will take time to emerge, especially to eyes who simply don’t want to see it.

      You might think its super cool and liberal and enlightened to reject the notion of your heritage and people, but the rest of the world won’t and will consider you a fool for doing so, while happily occupying the space and civilisation your forebears built for you.

    127. wee monkey says:

      Douglas MacMillan says:
      15 May, 2021 at 9:13 am

      Quote:-“A little off topic but am I the only person who perceives a racist undertone to labelling Covid-19 variants based on the country they were first noted by science?

      Calling something the Indian strain is completely misleading scientifically as there is no way of knowing how or where this variant appeared. Calling it the ‘Indian variant’ also encourages the racist idiots to target Indian people in our communities.

      Like so much of the narrative with Covid, we find messaging from the State that is far from neutral or science based.

      Are the Tories deliberately stoking the fire of racism … (rhetorical question I guess)”
      —-
      Are you really serious? or have been in a closet for the last 12 months or so?

      ..you’ll find it’s named after where the variant is IDENTIFIED.
      IE Kent variant actually was in France before the UK but was identified in, wait for it, KENT. Apt thread to be discussing virus mutation and spread don’t you think?

      Ref https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55659820

      PS don’t even THINK of calling anything the Wuhan virus.

    128. Dave Somerville says:

      Ruby. 6.41pm

      “PS What is the politically correct term for a person with a womb?”

      That would be “A Burd”.

    129. Ruby says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      15 May, 2021 at 7:04 pm
      Ruby. 6.41pm

      “PS What is the politically correct term for a person with a womb?”

      That would be “A Burd”.

      Reply

      A hen? 🙂

    130. Liz g says:

      Ruby @ 6.41
      I didn’t twist your words Ruby, I said between the two of you the impression was James’s wanted the family put back to how it used to be and you seemed to say that we should look to breeding new Scots.
      And since it was in answer to an immigration post it looked like your preference.

      I can indeed say only women have children as I suspect you knew fine well I would.
      But I cannot say only Scots women can produce new Scottish weans to solve our population problem , as that’s just stupit in so many ways Wings won’t last long enough to list them.
      Also take note Ruby…
      I’m not going to deflect onto Gender from immigration past here , so the others will just have to judge for themselves which conversation they want to have.
      As will you …

    131. Ruby says:

      Confused says:
      15 May, 2021 at 5:39 pm
      The Chief DOGGER has an article in the Nash-NIL – I love the way he NEVER GIVES UP, NEVER STOPS FIGHTING

      Reply
      Chief DOGGER. 🙂

      The word Dogger always make think of Fascinating Aida
      WARNING NOT FOR THOSE OF A SENSITIVE DISPOSITION
      https://tinyurl.com/4whxcera

      Re dogging.
      During lockdown to get some exercise I have been ‘power walking’ up to the Royal Mile to the Castle Esplanade. There are always lot of cars parked in the Esplanade some with their lights on.
      Anyone know what goes on at night in the Castle Esplanade?

    132. James Che. says:

      Liz g,
      I am a woman, born a woman comment on my husbands old site,
      I bought up my family when the change was taken place between families have the say and guidance over their children and the state taken over the roll. And just as Ruby says don’t twist my words.
      When I raised my children I had a choice I could voluntarily make to be a mum and raise my children in a good and respectful way to others, or I could work part time once they started school,
      The most important point is I had a choice how to live my life as my mother did before me,
      My mother wanted a big family as she had been an only child and had a lonely childhood, she raised eight children and was self employed running bed and breakfast, in a 1700s hotel, my dad worked in the open air and enjoyed gardening and fishing,
      Very contented people and lots of laughter, if that is going backwards I am all for it.
      I watch my daughter having to through these new Modern woke agendas at work in a council office, , as well as within the school with my granddaughter, what is wrong with old fashioned values and family units, they have been on the go for thousands of years and kept our population going even in spite of the highland clearances and the state trying to reduce our population,
      I worked two part time jobs while raising my children, I was not stuck at home,
      My daughter works full time in one job and has a part time job,.we are not rich, we worked for our enjoyment of family, second hand caravan holidays were as much fun as a holiday abroad
      Under non covid conditions we have friends over for some wine or go out for a meal, we have cars to travel, and we often join up for holidays, we have the internet and web sites, there is nothing Victorian or going backwards with a modern hardworking mum,
      I went metal detecting , and fishing with my brothers and son, husband mechanical hobbies an old cars,
      You do not have be locked up and isolated if you wish to be a at home mum in this modern era, and I was no heroine of my time, all the mums around about were doing the same
      The point is all about choice. And family structures

    133. Ruby says:

      Liz g says:
      15 May, 2021 at 7:39 pm

      I can indeed say only women have children as I suspect you knew fine well I would.

      Also take note Ruby…
      I’m not going to deflect onto Gender from immigration past here , so the others will just have to judge for themselves which conversation they want to have.
      As will you …

      Reply

      1. I didn’t think you would use the term women.

      2. My choice of conversation at the moment is
      ‘gender’ No worries if you don’t want to talk about gender.

      3. I don’t think people are restricted to choosing only one topic. Others might want to talk about gender and about immigration.

    134. t42 says:

      Liz g says:
      Ruby @ 6.41
      “I didn’t twist your words Ruby”

      Yes you did and everyone saw it. You’re in a hole and should stop digging. You’re a straw-manning liar.

    135. Tannadice Boy says:

      @James Che 7:51pm
      I get your comment. My wife is a traditional woman. Give her life to family values, unfortunately no longer appropriate in SNP Scotland. There is no place for us now in Scotland. Liquidising our assets as we speak. The house being the biggest one. A skip move in the offing then we will rent until we decide where to move. The bairns are looking at the new world. For us it will be the UK. We are to old to emigrate. And I voted for Independence and the old SNP many times.

    136. Liz g says:

      James Che @ 7.51
      How can I be twisting your words if you are “all for it” IT being the contentment and choice you say you had ?
      Because that’s no how I remember it James.
      It was economic servitute , the “choice” as you put it was pocket money if you found the space to work.
      The priority was to support the man in his work or the family failed.
      The fatherless family really suffered too.
      And the assumption that family structures are the answer is pariochal at best.
      Ecconomic dependancy is neither fair or fun for any woman and just because you personally found coping mechanisms didn’t mean it was good and certinaly doesn’t mean it’s aspirational.
      Where is yer pride woman ?
      You’re here on Wings presumably because ye want an equal say in yer country’s resourses why on earth wouldn’t you want parity of esteem in yer own home ?

    137. Liz g says:

      t24 @ 7.58
      Still not going back to Gender Ruby or you 🙂

    138. James Che. says:

      I am not having a go at you liz g, all I was trying to say is people whom are happy to be stay at mums do not live in a situation that is going backwards to a Victorian era, and the modern family unit is not restricted as in times past, and holding a family together is to be admired, but older fashioned values are passed on to our children, teaching them to show more compassion and love for others. Through a close knit family and community.
      The dislocation of that very attitude of family values shows up in modern culture in our society, on twitter, Facebook and in the hateful way people talk to each other, ?

    139. Robert Louis says:

      Hamish is back. That’s all that matters.

      Well, that, and the fact that the people of Scotland showed the Rscists in the English Tories, that we do not want their racist ‘laws’, we do not want Priti Patel’s fascist snatch-squads, we do not want the Tories at all.

      A smart Prime Minister in England would pay heed. Sadly for England, they chose to elect a lying, stupid, overweight, lazy, upper class twit wannabee, called Alexander Boris de Pfeffle Johnson.

      Scotland is rightly sick of English colonial rule, laws made in England, by England, for England, forced upon Scotland against our wishes. Enough is enough.

    140. Westviews says:

      @Stoker. I second that. Stuart is needed more than ever. I can’t imagine us getting to a second IndyRef without him. Pleeeeease Stuart. Take pity on an old woman and change your mind.

    141. Maureen says:

      O/T
      https://twitter.com/Documark/status/1392449973313277960

      Lady Dorrian, who sentenced
      @CraigMurrayOrg
      to eight months in prison yesterday, has her eye on becoming the next Lord President and Lord Justice General of the High Court of Justiciary.

    142. Liz g says:

      James Che @ 8.20
      I’m sorry James if I gave the impression that I thought you were having a go at me.
      I was a stay at home mum by choice and for the reasons you gave.
      It was indeed an easier choice to make at the time and felt right.
      BUT
      Being widowed with a young family and no earning potential soon changed my mind.
      That why I have very strong opinions on both parents not only earning in there own right, but either one ( what if it was me who had died )having the parenting skills to step up for the children.
      Therefore
      As I said …. given all the advances why is there still a 40 hour working week ?
      The way forwards it seems to me is part time work for all and more family/ personal time for everyone.
      Which is touching on how do we attract more people to Scotland to organise in that way.

      If..
      And I’m not saying you James.. not at all
      There are those who want to keep Scotland mainly for Scots and can’t stand the thought of being mixed with others …then make the case ..
      How do we prosper better than or at least equal to expanding our working adult base dramatically ?
      And if you mean a breeding programme for Scottish women have the guts to say so.

    143. James Che. says:

      Liz g, you’re not making much sense, wether your single, on you’re own, wether you’re a single mum or married mum, we all have to earn to live,
      Wether as consenting adults you choose to share any of life’s burdens or pleasure is a choice, in Scotland it is not compulsory.
      To have a family is a choice, not compulsory.
      How many you have is a choice, not compulsory
      No one in Scotland is forced to live in the manner you describe without it being illegal.
      However if we separate the issues of having more than pocket money, then I am no shrinking violet,
      Working for companies and transportation made me realise that women did not get equal pay for the same job as men, I went to our union by myself as no other woman would come with me, the union man was as useful as a chocolate fireguard, even although his wife worked along side me.
      So I went to the top honchos in their offices and created verbal havoc,
      I got not only got a pay rise, I also got payed a retainer fee, so I would be employed after the holiday,
      All those woman asked how I got on, and when they learned. They were all clamouring at the boss for the same deal and pay rise,
      Those are you’re and my worst enemies,
      Not this mum,
      Equal rights has been a long hard fought battle all my life, not just for women, but for children, for housing, and for the Scottish people and Scotland,
      Servitude is in you’re mind, I have always been equal, I made sure of that.

    144. Grouse Beater says:

      Good cartoon, Chris.

      Feels a bit odd posting this week, with Stuart and Wings not in house, a bit like being in a shopping mall just at closing time.

      Anyhow, old habits die hard…..

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘A Letter to the President”: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-pPB

    145. Republicofscotland says:

      Well it turns out the two Asian men which the Home office tried to deport AREN’T illegal immigrants, and legal action is now being considered on the Home office by a Scots charity.

      https://archive.is/8bd8a

    146. Republicofscotland says:

      This is an excellent wee poem, that echoes our own past as well as those of immigrants forced from their lands.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1bVb-ZWQAAD29S?format=jpg&name=large

    147. Liz g says:

      James Che @ 8.58
      I think we are on the same page but talking at cross purposes.
      That you had to argue your rights to fair pay demonstrates that you were thought to be worth less to start with.
      That kind of thinking wasn’t in the imagination of women at all, it was real and it was everywhere. A woman’s primary role was in the home and society was structured as such.
      Their job at any given point in their lives was secondary to that.
      It was justified as being in the best interests of family life , and how the world worked.
      A whole shit load of stuff was justified by being presented as being in the best intrests of family life.
      None of it particularly good for woman.
      You may well have saw choices within that structure and made them, but many didn’t or couldn’t .

      I argue to build toward a society that’s fair on the least of us and that very much includes not going back to a set up portrayed as idealistic for family’s that really didn’t exist for most young mothers.
      And in all honesty put fathers on the edge of their children’s lives, keeping them chained to being the breadwinner.
      Also supposed to be good for family life , and little choice about it they had too.
      There has to be a better song to sing than that James don’t ye think.

      If we are going to argue to put family life back as front and centre of society’s structures, I’d caution we better be very clear about exactly what we mean and very very clear about what we are not asking for too.

    148. James Che. says:

      Liz g, my name is Janice, and to a certain degree I agree with you, no one man or woman should have such long working hours,
      when my children started school, I worked from 6 in the morning to 8 in the morning, came home and gave children and hubby breakfast, drove them to work and school, and then went back to work, ate while working, left at 3.30pm to picked children up from school,and hubby up from work, gave them their supper, left them at home and went back to work until 10pm, came home got school clothes ready for next day, did the washing and quick hoover and dust, dropped into bed around 1 am,
      Got up and repeated all over again for six years.
      My gran was widowed while her daughter( my mum) was 1 year old, it’s a very hard life, especially when a war was on, she often had to leave her daughter with a neighbour, as she was the only person locally who knew how to lay out the dead, before rigor mortas set in, due to the undertaker being so busy,
      Life itself is not easy,
      No one promised us it would be.
      IF we expected it to be so, it is nowt but self deception,
      We have to go with what we are given and make the best of it,
      And if we are not happy with the status quo we must get of our bksides and fight for the right to make those changes,
      But let no man or woman speak up for me alone, I am strong, my family instilled that belief in me, and together we are even stronger,
      I genuinely admire you Liz for the way you have pulled through the hard times, another fighter,
      But if we act in a reactionary way to only our own circumstances and do not include everyone’s point of view, we will fold and collapse before we ever become independent, we must provide good foundations for the people that live here now, so if we still feel we need immigration after that we can prepared to give them a good as start as we give ourselves,
      We cannot run before we can walk.

    149. Republicofscotland says:

      “We now learn after an investigation that Boris Johnson has broken the ministerial code regarding the 15k holiday
      Douglas Ross stated very clearly before the Holyrood election he would call for Boris Johnsons resignation if the PM ever broke the ministerial code. It appears he lied.”

      https://twitter.com/80_mcswan/status/1393474119866408960

      Sturgeon and Johnson, a match made in hell.

    150. James Che. says:

      Liz g, internet handshake, and a smile, I am alway ready for new friends.

    151. Liz g says:

      James Che @ 9.50
      Hey Janice totally agree we can never have enough friends 🙂
      I got chills reading about your grandmother.
      My maternal gran widowed while pregnant with her 6th child just before WW2 also “laid out ” the dead and was acting midwife to many too.
      And yes we need to prepare for which ever kind of immigration we choose ( won’t the choosing be such a thrill ) our Grannies would I think expect nothing less than for us to prepare with the best we had to receive new people .
      It’s never too early to think how we want the immigration we need to be organised among all the other stuff we need to decide .
      But
      Our best is all we can do and we’ll get there Janice of that I’m sure 🙂

    152. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Republicofscotland 9:53pm
      Sturgeon broke the ministerial code many times over but it didn’t seem to bother you then. You are a hypocrite. At some point you are going to have to accept that you are only one part of Scotland. Keep mama Sturgeon as your head of state. The rest of us are leaving.

    153. Dan says:

      Immigration, like all the important powers, still reside in Westminster at UK level.
      Without control of all significant powers (Indy), then it will be pissing in the wind trying to make any significant changes in how our Scottish society operates within the constraints of how it is currently structured, as there are inherent knock on interactions and implications when policy alterations are made to any of the “big powers”, which may require compensatory adjustments to others to keep things in balance.

      The continual grievencing about various issues becomes rather tedious when the folk doing the grievencing could actually begin to address some of the issues they complain about.
      Even when the Scottish Government Administrators of Devolved Powers had the opportunity to control Social Security they have still yet to take on that responsibility from from the UK Department of Work and Pensions.

    154. Liz g says:

      Sorry Dan great point but just got invaded by family speak later 🙂

    155. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dan.

      IMHO, the MSP for Dunfermline may feel that she is out of her depth (The Peter Principle).

    156. James Che. says:

      Tannadice boy, were in the same situation as you, I lost my home, and had a good few years of fight to get a house, had no where else to go, so became homeless,
      Now in a council house, my daughter trying to cope bringing up her daughter in a weird upside down back to front world were the rights and wrongs are just plain wrong,
      My son immigrated to New Zealand , has quickly achieved success whereas he failed here for all his long hours of work, he literally got an award for hardest worker for 3 years running at his place of employment, learned new skills with enthusiasm and is now boss of 18 other men.
      He is now married and I have four grandchildren over there,
      Had our country been fair and a good place to expand and grow, my grandchildren would have been born Scottish as it was a Scottish lassie he married,
      Our children are leaving in the droves, and as parents or people left behind we are becoming little more than statistics of the poor,
      You and you’re issues sound like very similar to ourselves, and I suppose like many others here.
      Don’t give up, old fashioned values are the only way to win, they fight the stupidity of this woke nonsense and global dislocated culture trying to emerge, hang on to your hat we’re in for one heck of a ride,
      Don’t see it as a battle, see it as a challenge for us ,
      It’s not so scary Once you realise the enemy on the other side of the hill is sht scared too. Internet hug to you and you’re missus.

    157. Alf Baird says:

      J.o.e @ 6:56 pm

      “Ethnicity isn’t everything but it does count.”

      Actually, the ethnic identity of a people is always a fundamentally important factor in the self-determination of any defined ‘people’. Any desire for national independence of ‘a people’ would not exist without that defined people first having their own ‘national consciousness’, which is dependent on a people having their own specific national culture, language, history, heritage, and ethnicity.

      The independence movement appears to have been hijacked by different groups promoting their own narrow selfish agendas on this and that on the back of independence. They ignore the fact that independence is first and foremost about the liberation and decolonisation of a defined ‘people’, i.e. an ethnic group of people holding to the same culture, language etc, which in Scotland’s case is Scots folk, wherever they bide.

      Peoples of other ethnic and national identities have their own opportunity for self-determination of their ‘people’ under the UN Charter. However one of the UN requirements for self-determination is that there should be no ‘external interference’ in the process of the self-determination of ‘a people’ by peoples from other countries and of other national identities.

    158. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Fuckin hell

      SNP 1 and 2 Sturgeon fanatic looks like she’s going to bore the Arse off of us for the full shift.

      No sign of her when we were attacking Sturgeon, then, out of the blue, she appears.

      And not a peep out if her when we were looking for support for Alex Salmond.

      She’s a Sturgeon Cult Salmond hater.

      It must be quiet over at the Dugs place.

    159. Tannadice Boy says:

      @James Che 10:46pm
      Thanks for your compliments to my wife. She’s a legend. Brought up great bairns she did. We are leaving Scotland that decision has been made. We are in a good position financially. I worry about the impact of my bairns leaving to new world. They are going to scatter and I don’t blame them. An example, my A and E doctor son realises that Australia looks after burn out better than Scotland.etc etc. They will be cast to the 4 winds its hurting the wife. And my brother has asked me for help to get out. Extended family many of them. We will try to help them all out.

    160. Stoker says:

      Folks, read the post further up thread by Effigy on 15 May, 2021 at 4:35 pm. It is true! Police Scotland have *YET AGAIN* escorted a march of “thousands” of celebrating *Rangers fans from Ibrox stadium to the City centre. Sturgeon & her government, along with The SFA and Police Scotland *ALL* complicit in aiding & abetting these irresponsible scumbags.

      They were all “advised” ahead of today’s game not to plan marches or gatherings. Not only did these irresponsible scumbags ignore the advice *AGAIN* they were once *AGAIN* showing just how weak Sturgeon, ScotGov, Police Scotland & The SFA are and that, when it comes to them, they can do what they like with very little repercussions.

      The title should be stripped from them and/or, at the very least, the scum behind the organising/encouraging of this behaviour should be facing lengthy jail terms. Sturgeon must face serious questioning, as should Police Scotland Chief responsible, on the point Effigy makes about AUOB having a representative jailed for a far less serious breach of rules etc.

      Make no mistake, these actions are *nothing* to do with football celebrations and *everything* to do with political statement. All the aforementioned bodies are unfit for purpose and are now routinely aiding & abetting these scumbags. I’ve seen folk mention large peaceful loud demonstrations outside Sturgeon’s home. If that takes place i think the police handling of it will be rather interesting to say the least. Shameful Sturgeon!

    161. Labour 4 Indy says:

      The SNP 1 and 2, Sturgeon Cult member will talk all night about this gender shit, but ask her to attack Nicola Sturgeon, or ask her to support Alex Salmond, she’ll be off like a shot.

      She’ll be back at the Dugs website, Where they post endless love letters to Queen Bitch Nicola Sturgeon.

    162. Confused says:

      the govt should publish clear rules about which groups have to obey the law or not, it is far too confusing

    163. Dandee says:

      Labour 4 indy

      Is it not passed.your bed time sunshine lol

    164. Dandee says:

      I’m doing fine now

    165. Effigy says:

      https://fb.watch/5w3i4LbF-_/

      Had the above sent to me!

    166. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Dandee

      I have just got out of bed and now you want me to go back to bed, LoL

      Why do you ask?

    167. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Dandee

      Was that your total contribution to tonight’s debate?

      The most important thing in your life regarding contributing to the Wings Over Scotland debate was to find out if a perfect stranger to you was to find out if he was going to bed

      Was it an offer, or are you just a curious perv?

      There are some strange people on this website nowadays.

    168. James Che. says:

      Tannidice boy, I have heartfelt sympathy for your wife and you, we have experienced this,
      I went into mourning for a year or so afterwards which was strange as he had not died, but it felt just as devastating. It was us that could not come to terms with it for a while, however they themselves were extremely busy and excited at the thought of a new life.
      However long term I can see now in retrospect he did the right thing he is happy and his family prospering,
      We both wish you and your family some happy changes to you’re life’s.

    169. Dave Somerville says:

      More mince in the National about indyRef2.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1393670661625860096

    170. Tannadice Boy says:

      @James Che 12:23pm
      Thanks for your insightful comment. My wife doesn’t do social media. I will relay your happy and optimistic comments to her. My bairns will do well because they are independent of us. She brought them up well. A real woman lost in current Scotland. We are leaving Scotland the bairns will leave currently Australia, New Zealand and then their is my daughter she is still in raging mode. Highly talented I expect Canada where she did her elective.

    171. Confused says:

      Someone should steal one of those vans with IMMIGRATION SERVICE on the side – what jolly pranks to have.

      – drive it up to Skye and park up front to some anglo settlers residence, chap at the door and start asking questions

      we are hearing reports you are “not from round here”
      can you tell me where were you born; where were your parents and grandparents?
      how long have you been up here?
      what exactly is your purpose for being here?
      do you have a visa?
      could I see a letter from an employer?
      passport?
      how do you support yourself here?
      are you on benefits?

      then tell them they have to leave within 3 weeks as their home is needed for some asylum seeking “new scots” from afghanistan. Since the new scots may be muslims, their house needs to be deep-cleaned of any “pig meat” residue – and they need to pay for that themselves.

      If they are guardian readers they will go quietly in an exultation of self-hatred and white privilege, or if daily mail-ites, their heads will explode from the internal contradictions.

      FINALLY A GOVT TOUGH ON ALIENS – SEND THEM ALL BACK TO …

      MORRISS-DANCE-BBC-PAEDO-ETON-BUMMERY-ANGLO-BADTEETH land

      ???

    172. Cudneycareless says:

      I can imagine the brains in the Home Office are now planning their next moves.
      There are all these refugees wanting to get into the England but very few towns or cities willing to take them and then there is this warm welcoming country called Scotland. Ship them all there and England looks to be compassionate.
      What could possibly go wrong?

    173. Willie says:

      And so Sturgeon says that with a 80.4 per 100,000 ( or 0.06% ) infection rate Glasgow may have to abandon relaxation of lockdown restrictions scheduled for tomorrow.

      No doubt that will come as an absolute shock to all of the citizens who were anticipating the changes due for tomorrow and maybe they should have some questions for our First Minister.

      First of the questions is for First Minister to explain where the reported and quite frankly misleading 80.4 per 100,000 ( or 0.06%) Glasgow infection rate is coming from because in reality it appears that there is an absolutely enormous outbreak of Indian variant COVID infection in her own backyard constituency.

      In the week 4th to 10th May 2021 it seems that the infection rates in Pollokshields East and Pollockshields West were 35 cases and 34 cases out of populations of 5,037 and 4,662 respectively.

      That expressed as a percentage equates to 6.94% and 7.3% respectively – an absolutely huge infection rate of just over 7% or just over a hundred times the rate Sturgeon says is afflicting Glasgow.

      Or put another way that’s an infection rate of 7 in every 100 whereas in Scotland as a whole for the same period the health authorities were reporting infection rates at 1 in 760,

      Interesting isn’t it therefore how an absolute failure in Sturgeon’s back yard constituency becomes spun as a more anodyne Glasgow infection rate. It’s just all so absolutely typical of our lying and spinning so called a COVID Queen of a First Minister,

      So tell us Covid Queen we all appreciate how difficult all of this has been, and there has been an outbreak in Moray, but why has there been such a failure in your own backyard constituency and why is it being spun as a Glasgow wide problem.

      Or is it the headline of COVID Super Surge in Sturgeon Constituency is something that the FM wants to hide.

    174. Willie says:

      Maybe Sturgeon is the super spreader. A latter day Typhoid Mary.

      And then yesterday, in another politically inspired bit of policy insanity, Police Scotland allowed thousands, if not tens of thousands of Rangers fans to gather in the very same south side of Glasgow that is being impacted by the Indian variant COVID super surge.

      More lockdown Minister? Keep us on a war footing? Suck it up folks!

    175. Willie says:

      Or what about the incident again in Sturgeon’s south-side back yard where immigration Border Force carried out a deeply antagonistic raid to arrest two men at a sensitive time thereby proving a huge stand off in Glasgow street where arounfca thousand individuals along with maybe thirty police had an eight hour stand off.

      Why did the First Minister allow this raid to happen. Nothing to do with her she says but Police Scotland always accompany the Birder Force when they carry out a raid. No way that this high profile antagonistic raid should not have been known about.

      No need for an eight hour stand off with the Border Force Officers, their captives, thirty police and a crowd of around a thousand to be thronging a Glasgow Street – in an area with surging Covid..

      Something doesn’t gel with our First Minister, what she says, what she does.

    176. Ros Curwood says:

      Thinking on about Westminster intervention and all that is happening in Glasgow, and pondering on the many and varied comments in this column that are so very interesting, is there any more information on what has happened to close down the McVitie Biscuit Factory so suddenly and without warning? I heard that the product will be made in the other plant in England, which I thought was prone to flooding. This may be totally jumping at shadows, but these are the sorts of blows that Whitehall are very likely to inflict in order to bring down the Scottish morale. It’s what they did before, dug away the foundations so our trade fell in. Perhaps all the Glaswegian cooks could take it over…..

    177. gullaneno4 says:

      I know football fans are generally credited as dunderheids but marching into a Covid hotspot, ignoring masks and spacing, no doubt singing and shouting with much spittle flying around and probably quite a bit of man and even woman hugging as well.

      Well done to yesterday’s marching Rangers fans, Darwin would have found you interesting to study.

    178. PaulaJ says:

      “laws made in England, by England, for England, forced upon Scotland against our wishes.”

      As opposed to those currently being foisted on us by Nicola and Humza?

      Start worrying about what you say over your own dinner table, as it could put you in gaol. And don’t misgender anyone, even by mistake, or Humza’s Hate Crime Law will have you enjoying yet more prison food.

      And we just voted the perpetrators another 5 years to do yet more damage (without ALBA to hold their feet to the fire).

    179. Ottomanboi says:

      The British unionist flag is become a symbol of disunion, division, racism, sectarianism and intimidation.
      The new swastika?

    180. Labour 4 Indy says:

      I blame Neil Lennon for all our woes.

      The downfall of Celtic was his fault. He wouldn’t step aside when he ran out of ideas.

      If the Celtic board had sacked him, they would have got somebody in to take them onto the “Ten in a Row” they were looking for.

      But they didn’t, and Rangers went on to win the league. It meant the knuckle draggers were allowed to do as they please when it came to celebrations.

      It also gave the Unionists throughout Scotland the spring back in their step.

      It meant the Butcher’s Aprons were taken out of the bottom drawer and flown proudly outside people’s homes.

      All this led up to marches that we witnessed yesterday.

      For some strange reason, the police are afraid to say no to the Blue Nose Orange Order.

      Why?

      Why can’t the police block off roads, or start making arrests if things get out of control?

      Why is this faction allowed to do as they please?

      They are obviously getting the nod from on high to do what they want.

      As I said at the top, this is all your fault Neil Lennon, (aided by Nicola Sturgeon).

      It’s all a bit tongue in cheek, but not that from from the truth.

    181. Breeks says:

      gullaneno4 says:
      16 May, 2021 at 8:48 am

      Well done to yesterday’s marching Rangers fans, Darwin would have found you interesting to study.

      You could say the same about WGDug types, couldn’t you gullano4?

    182. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Confused

      You are awful, but, your post at 1.24am gave me a good laugh.

    183. Effigy says:

      Several videos with the attractions of what a unionist Glasgow can look like.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/steve91392532/status/1393613684329566209?s=24

    184. @Ottomanboi,

      it isn`t called the `butcher`s apron` for nothing,

      so much blood on it.

    185. Dan says:

      @ Liz g

      Just to clarify, when I stated “the folk doing the grievencing” in my 10.21pm post, I was referring to those in positions of power to do something about it, and not having a go at anyone on here discussing their own thoughts on the matter. No offence intended.

      I stated my thoughts on this subject several days ago. Which may also explain why taking on responsibility for aspects of Social Security have also been kicked down the road.
      I guess there are only so many hours in a day, and when certain individuals chose to embroil themselves in a situation that has squandered thousands of hours of both elected politicians, and un-elected civil service officials’ time, and millions of quids of taxpayers money, there just wasn’t any left to actually accomplish what you were remitted to do.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-ship-song/comment-page-2/#comment-2660526

    186. akenaton says:

      One of the biggest advantages of leaving the EU was stopping the free movement of “agency” workers, mainly Eastern European in origin from flooding this country…and by this country I mean Scotland.
      I have worked and still work in the building trade and have spent months repairing roofs erected by these gangs of so called tradesmen. Obviously the vast majority had no experience of roof work or the climatic conditions experienced here (extremely wet winters) and were here using the system to make some quick dosh!

      I got into conversation with one chap who had quite a good knowledge of the trade who told me that within two years he could save enough to build a new house in Bulgaria. Unfortunately the people in Argyll who were financing his proposed development were left with water running down their walls.
      Scotland’s infrastructure is crumbling, our young folk need housing if they are to marry, produce a family and as a family contribute to an independent Scottish economy, but apprenticeships have all but vanished, young people encouraged to embark on “education for life” regardless of educational ability, while it seems by many of the posts here that the “Free Scots” will be happy to depend on parasitic immigration to fund our country. Tony Blair famously said, “We need unregulated immigration to be competitive in the Global Economy”

      Enough said?

    187. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Re, the Union Jack (Butcher’s Apron).

      Our supermarkets are covered in them these days.

      I think there is a lot of mind play going on here. Where you unconsciously begin to accept this flag, and by extension, you begin to accept the Union as being “normal”.

    188. Stephen says:

      Arkenaton
      The argument for immigration is that it increases the level of economic activity and GDP.
      Productivity has remained flat and so GDP has not increased this way.
      Our indigenous population has been declining.
      Therefore the only way to increase GDP, absent productivity, is through immigration.

    189. Labour 4 Indy says:

      And don’t ever forget, our very own First Minister is from “Orange County”, AND has an English granny.

      It’s all strating to fall into place.

      Nicola doesn’t want her granny to become a Furriner.

    190. Breastplate says:

      Ottomanboi,
      Yes, there’s a reason that it’s known as the butcher’s apron.

    191. akenaton says:

      In all the hoo hah about the Union flag, which is flown proudly by a neighbour and friend of mine, I would remind you all of the hundreds of thousands of fathers brothers and grandfathers from all over this country who proudly fought and died together under “The Butcher’Apron” to protect us from Fascism and had they not been victorious, we would not now be pontificating on forums such as this and would be dealing with masters possibly worse than ST Nic.

    192. Labour 4 Indy says:

      And why are the English affectionately known as “Ex Pats” when the move to another country, and yet when anyone moves to England from a foreign land, the are known as immigrants?

    193. Dan says:

      If she / her says we have to wait for the economic recovery from the covid hit to improve before considering Indy (some how failing to take into account recovery from the economic hit of leaving the EU), then why not get on with actually implementing something Scotland does have the power to put in place that could mean we recover faster under our own steam, rather than waiting for Westminster, which has kinda shown its hand already on where its priorities lie over the past 300 years.

      https://www.businessforscotland.com/its-time-for-annual-ground-floor-and-roof-rent/

      From several years back.

      https://sourcenews.scot/snp-conference-backs-call-for-land-taxation-to-transform-scotland-snp17/

    194. Labour 4 Indy says:

      akenaton 9.54am

      So by your reckoning we should be flying the flag of the Nations who saved us from Fascism?

      So that would be the American/Russian flag we should be flying then?

      Because if they were not involved, the Germans would have walked all over england at will.

      I can’t remember a single war the english have actually won.

      They always need somebody to bail them out.

      The english were only good at fighting countries who used spears to defend themselves.

    195. TNS2019 says:

      Quite agree, Dan.
      Stop all the whingeing about WM and get on with the job.
      I am probably not the only one who thinks that the SNP is incapable of using their existing powers let alone those that would come our way with independence.
      And whilst they are doing that, could they also consider addressing the chronic problems that we have with corruption?
      1. AS v Scot Govt
      2. The Lord Advocate v David Whitehouse et al
      3. The ‘sinking school’
      4. Craig Murray
      5. The Butterstone Debacle?
      6. The aluminuim smelter affair

      Blah, blah.
      https://www.tns2019.org/new-blog-1/2021/5/16/untangling-the-gordian-knot

    196. Effigy says:

      The U.K. media en mass refuse to use any of the hundreds of pictures or videos of the violence
      football thugs used in imposing mob rule across Glasgow yesterday.
      The Daily Redcoat and BBC Westminster focus on celebrations?

      What would the police superintendent have to say about death, stabbings, amputation, a series of vicious attacks on police officers and their vehicles and discarded Covid rules?

      Supt Sutherland said due to the largely peaceful nature of the crowd at that time “it would not be proportionate for our resources to use a high level of force through public order policing to disperse those gathering”.

      I thought it was just the scales of justice that were blind?

    197. akenaton says:

      Stephen, I take your point, but that was my point about encouraging infrastructure building and repair to encourage family in the indigenous population.
      In my area there are hardly any young families as young people either move into cities and remain single or live with their parents, making finding a life partner difficult.
      Also many young women now see a career as more important to them personally than having a family while young enough to grow with them.
      Many say that there is no employment in rural areas, but this is patently untrue as we desperately need housing and repair to existing housing and the covid epidemic has proved that we no longer require to live in cities or commercial hubs to make our contribution.
      I used to hope that as an Independent country we would start to take a wider view and put contribution to the national welfare above personal advancement, but as I said earlier my hopes have taken a bit of a bash in my observations of Scotland’s political direction.

    198. true scot says:

      Scotland has an issue with a shrinking population – and dependence i.e. number of workers/tax payers to those needing support with Glasgow being the most pronouced in it’s disparity. It’s a common problem in the western world. Couples should have 2.4 or more children to maintain a population – and more to grow it. One measure of the size of an economy is the the number of people in it i.e. the size of its domestic market.

      (OT – China will have this problem massively due to it’s sustained one child policy, and there is a school of thought that China’s aggression – for example in the South China Sea and Taiwan – is an attempt to accomplish politcal goals before this shrinkage starts to bite.)

      The SNP have always been very honest about it’s view on immigration – large scale immigration is needed for the health of the economy. Clearly that only loosely intersect with the case in Glasgow, where the men were asylum seekers. However it has highlighted something of a hidden problem and that is common in any nationalist movement, which does require a ‘them and us’ narrative a.k.a. racism.

      Independence would see Scotland’s ethnic diversity grow significantly – and if you think that any potential tax payer, including those south of the border would be turned away – of course they wouldn’t.

      Were people generally aware of the SNP’s policy here? It’s an area they keep relatively quiet about – this was a major brexit driver – but economically it would be a very sensible policy for an independent Scotland.

    199. Dan says:

      @ akenaton at 9.54am

      Aye, that was a while back though, but what about more recent times such as Iraq, are those same union flag waving friends and neighbours you mention proud of the ongoing carnage that endevour created?
      I can’t ask my mate from the forces who was there what he thinks seeing he came back in a box.

    200. jockmcx says:

      American Reacts to The Highland Clearances
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsbW2WjnqPY

      What kind of scot would get angry at Stuart Campbell getting
      angry at Scots getting sold out out by Scots once again?

      Maybe some scot’s aren’t angry enough yet at the right people!

    201. Daisy Walker says:

      Official from Nicla’s HQ

      There will be no request or campaign for another Indy Ref for Scotland, until after the clean up in Glasgow City…’

      All joking aside, I hope they keep a record of the costs of clean up, and when they start – sorry if they start – convicting those responsible, fines are applied.

      Any way, that’s the next lock down guaranteed. Just in time for August I figure.

      So, Alba and Alex – we need our conference now, well before September – or it will not happen – except on zoom.

      Way back, we talked about Truthless weaponising the OO and Rangers against Indy – sooo much easier to do, when you’re in Government and can ensure the Police ‘drop the ball’.

      Not a good week for humanity really, all things considered.

    202. true scot says:

      and btw before I get flamed for using the word racism in the context of nationalism – read the comments again. Some ugly stuff on here.

    203. Stephen says:

      Arkenaton
      Rural decline
      /
      The other way of increasing economic activity and GDP, apart from immigration, is as you suggest through increased business investment.
      This business investment can be government, private domestic and private international.
      The Scottish government’s powers are, at present, insufficient to elicit this.
      Scottish government powers should include the ability to provide substantial and meaningful incentives to business to both increase their existing levels of investment and to encourage new business investment.
      Government should also set an agenda for the development of key areas of the economy, necessary for Scotland’s future progress.

    204. akenaton says:

      The fact that we were joined eventually by Russia and America in the fight against Fascism does not detract from the fact that our people were the first and alone in the fight. They were united in defending democratic values…..values which seem to have vanished from the Scottish devolved administration.

    205. akenaton says:

      Very much agree Stephen…well said.

    206. Republicofscotland says:

      Well I’m all for football fans celebrating their team winning a league title, however the scenes in Glasgow yesterday were more akin to drunken violent mobs roaming the city looking for trouble.

      Three police Scotland officers were hospitalised, and other were injured, and there were dozens of arrests. Firework were lets off right up until the wee small hour of the morning and emergency services were stretched and their sirens could also be heard throughout the night.

      On top of this we had plane loads of so called Rangers FC fans jetting in from Belfast to join what was classed as the festivities. to add insult to the injury of the decent people of Glasgow several Police Scotland officers were captured on phone footage dancing with Rangers FC scarves around their necks, reinforcing my opinion that Police Scotland is a colonial police force.

      The Glasgow Police commander in charge of the city yesterday has failed miserably in his job to control parts of the mob(not all the fans many are decent folk) what seems like a rioting mob that trashed the city centre and caused damaged to it. He should be named and shamed and in my opinion reprimanded.

      I await to see if Nicola Sturgeon takes any action tomorrow, or will it be another Leslie Evans case of doing nothing but protecting those who fail miserably at their jobs but still keep them.

    207. Republicofscotland says:

      “Sturgeon broke the ministerial code many times over but it didn’t seem to bother you then. You are a hypocrite.”

      Pray tell Tannadice boy where exactly did you get that information from?

    208. oneliner says:

      @ottomanboi

      How about rebranding as Union Jastika?

    209. Breastplate says:

      Scot Finlayson,
      My apologies, as I see you’ve already posted that, I’m dipping in and out of comments, trying to catch up and I am a bit behind.

    210. akenaton says:

      Stephen….”Scottish government powers should include the ability to provide substantial and meaningful incentives to business to both increase their existing levels of investment and to encourage new business investment.
      Government should also set an agenda for the development of key areas of the economy, necessary for Scotland’s future progress”

      As I said I agree with your views, but implementing them could be a bit tricky if we were to re-join the EU?

    211. crazycat says:

      @ Willie at 7.41

      In the week 4th to 10th May 2021 it seems that the infection rates in Pollokshields East and Pollockshields West were 35 cases and 34 cases out of populations of 5,037 and 4,662 respectively.

      That expressed as a percentage equates to 6.94% and 7.3% respectively

      Your calculations are out by an order of magnitude:
      35 = 0.69% of 5,037
      34 = 0.73% of 4,662

      (Still bigger than 0.08%, of course)

    212. Stephen says:

      Akenaton
      Yes.
      That’s one big reason why we shouldn’t rejoin.
      Why give up our freedom as soon as we have gained it?

    213. Daisy Walker says:

      A great deal of crowd control, takes place before an event takes place, and is built in to the event.

      Police have specific departments monitoring football related intelligence for example.

      The crowds coming over from Northern Ireland will have been talking about it openly on Facebook, buying their tickets, and wearing the colours when coming over, not to mention singing their songs…

      Sending out a message weeks before that they would not be allowed at the game, would have ensured many cancelations.

      Likewise coralling them on arrival, into a big room with a tv to watch the game, would have ensured no violence, and then a return journey home, no covid spike incident.

      The Police Officer who accepted the rangers scarf and did not immediately take it off – I sincerely hope that scarf had Covid on it. If he was a senior officer, I hope he gets demoted, that’s the kind of lack of judgement that gets junior cops in the shit. He really should have handled it better.

      Anyway folks – that’s a full lockdown guaranteed for August. And that is what it was really about, I’d bet.

    214. Dandee says:

      .labour 4 indy you.dont half talk alot a shite..yawn yawn

    215. Ottomanboi says:

      Unionism with its snotty snout in the trough.
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/16/austerity-quad-sold-their-souls-cameron-osborne-alexander-clegg
      All around there is decay.

      «The deterioration of a government begins almost always by the decay of its principles.»
      Montesquieu

      And the WHO’s so called Covid-19 pandemic has been the mask of concealment, worldwide.

    216. Labour 4 Indy says:

      Dandee

      Will you please stop harassing me.

      I don’t have the time to bat off your childish rants.

      Why are you on my case?

      Please pick on some other poor Bastard.

      It would be very much appreciated.

      Infact, why not post something of relevance, preferably related to Scottish Independence.

      There’s a good girl.

    217. susanXX says:

      A Scotland flooded with third world immigrants, where indigenous Scots are a bare majority makes a mockery of Scotland as a country.It would be nothing more than a globalist’s wet dream – consumer mush.

    218. Is it just me or does any one else think the George Square abomination was stage managed ?

    219. Willie says:

      Apologies crazy cat. I mistyped with the wrong percentage point.

      But the issue is Glasgow 0.08 % whilst Sturgeon’s back yard 0.7% A queer old difference especially since the 0.08 % will be an elevated average due to cases in the east and west pollock shields wards.

      But what by comparison to the Scotland average of 1 in 760.

      Yep, Sturgeon’s definitely the COVID Queen and with the disgraceful Rangers scenes where the police, no doubt in instruction, have absolutely no control, she’ll no doubt have us all mocked down again.

      Ho, ho, Ho, to all those businesses, all those folks ready to reopen after a long hard hall. She’ll be standing at her platform giving it solemn Churchillian I’ll protect the nation rhetoric very soon. She’s got a pandemic to fight you know.

    220. Willie says:

      And all of yesterday’s ‘ celebrations ‘ to the refrain of “ fenlands to the left, and gentians to the right, and if the Pope says no, we’ll have another go “ ………where is the Hate Crime Bill now Ms Sturgeon.

      Or are we inculcating the culture of Union Jackery and Loyalism. This is all very strange. Very concerning.

    221. Daisy Walker says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      16 May, 2021 at 11:19 am

      Is it just me or does any one else think the George Square abomination was stage managed ?

      Not stage managed – but encouraged. This is the second event, the first was a few months back… and they got away with it.

      If you cannot stop a crowd – you manage an accomodation. Rangers stadium should have been made the venue (where no drinking is the law).

      As I said, all the behind the scenes pre policing that usually minimises such scenes – is noticibly abscent.

      The folk flying in from Belfast – will have been discussing it openly on facebook.

      It really is that simple. You stop them coming to the country, and if they do arrive, you coral them on arrival so they don’t reach the game.

      They would do so in normal times. Not to do so with the additional Covid powers is beyond legitimate error.

      And think about it, we now have supporters who attended, returning to all corners of the country.

      It was clear in 2014 before and after Indyref1 that the Brits wanted to use the Orange Order as their ‘army’.

      It’s also clear that Covid has been a god send for the Brits – in preventing real Indy supporters campaigning.

      The third lockdown will begin in August and prevent an Alba live Conference – unless Alba wakes up very quickly.

      The Police Federation should be asking some extremely pertinent and legal questions with regards the pre event planning which did not go into yesterdays Glasgow event – with a view to standing up for their injured colleagues.

      Bet they don’t bother.

    222. Alec Lomax says:

      Susan XX, rememeber to put a burning cross in your front garden.

    223. Stephen says:

      Alec Lomax
      There has always been a racist element to our society.
      Some of them migrated to the southern US states and gravitated into the orbit you are referring to….

    224. Republicofscotland says:

      Scott Finlayson.

      I doubt the violent mob in George Sq was staged managed, Police Scotland handled the situation terribly the police commander knew in days in advance that, and from past experience, that this kind of thing would be likely to happen, yet he/she was woefully prepared.

      The violent packs of supposedly RFC football fans roaming the streets of Glasgow city centre causing mayhem, appeared on the video clips I’ve seen, to have a freehand to do as they liked with no police officers around to stop them.

      Of course its no secret that Police scotland is jam packed full of unionists and by default RFC fans, my next door neighbour is a police officer and she wouldn’t be without her Union Jack mug, nor would her boyfriend.

    225. akenaton says:

      The sectarianism we see in Scotland has been here since well before I was born, it will eventually cease, but suppression is not and never was a good idea.
      It is one of the many flaws in the Scottish psyche along side the many fine traits.

      I remember as a wee boy going to a Rangers Celtic final at Mount Florida with my old uncle. It was an old steam train with the compartments, the pull up windows and a wee corridor.
      Our compartment contained two groups of supporters one group Gers, one group Celts and the barney started…..a bit of pushing and cursing alcohol fuelled threats ect, but in one corner there was an old thin man who got to his feet and delivered a rebuke based on the fact that he was a Socialist and the working class should not be threatening one another, but live in harmony as brothers.
      To our horror the two sets of supporters set about the man and gave him a right doing, you see he had removed their raison d’etre, threatened their beliefs, had the effrontery to make them try to think. This still exist, but in small isolated areas as religion becomes less relevant. There is a danger that this “philosophy” may be transferred to Nationalist politics if we are not very careful. That of course is not any kind of endorsement of the views promoted by the SNP/Greens.

    226. Stephen says:

      Arkenaton
      /
      Yes.
      There has always been a ritualised element to our sectarianism where both sides almost enjoy demonising the other.
      However as you say, in your example (an oft quoted tale!), the two sides combined when under a perceived common threat.
      In your example the threat spoiling their fun was the socialist.

      A minority of them would have also combined against another perceived threat – the immigrant.

    227. Cuilean says:

      Stu,

      it’s stertin tae daa-ken oan iz. Ma split-new raelity. Nae mair loggin oan tae lairn the trowth abuit the latest BBC jiggerypokery or Holyrood highjinks or Bute Hoose bourach or legislative stootherie or Interim Interdicts illdaens an siclik wickit daens, fae ilka clatterin sklellum, an sleekit lee-ars, lik thon Murrell bawbags an aw the haill clanjamfray. It gars me greet lik a wee bairn fur ma auld kintrae.

      As thon auld sang cries it, ‘Wul ye nae cam back again?’

    228. Fred says:

      “ The Police Officer who accepted the rangers scarf and did not immediately take it off – I sincerely hope that scarf had Covid on it”

      Oh come on Daisy, you’re angry -but that’s pretty nasty stuff, completely unnecessary and says more about the kind of person you are than anything else .
      In defence of the police the situation would have been much, much worse had they charged in and started to take people out. They were utterly outnumbered.
      What footage you have seen looks like inaction, but they had the intelligence to realise that the situation would burn itself out and that by not antagonising a highly volatile mass would result in far fewer casualties- including themselves.
      I’m certain the main perpetrators will be singled out on cctv and social media over the next few weeks and held to account.

    229. Dan says:

      Aye, George Square yesterday was just folk having “fun”…

      https://twitter.com/AlexTyler94/status/1393690170436722690

    230. There were sports related riots way back in ancient times,

      there were the famous Nika riots in Constantinople 532 AD,

      they went on for 5 days with nearly half of Constantinople being burned or destroyed and tens of thousands of people killed,

      this was all through the rivalry between (you`ll never believe it) the Green and the Blue chariot teams,

      plus certain politicians hoping to undermine Emperor Justinian (bit like Murdo against Empress She/Her

      the team associations had become a focus for various social and political issues,

      the leaders of the rioters were bought of by Justinian and he sent the guards in to brutally suppress the rest.

    231. Effigy says:

      Scott,

      What do you mean stage managed?

      Yes if you mean thugs from N Ireland planned to do
      as they like with law and order as having a subsidised
      and hit men for hire relationship with Westminster.

      Yes if you mean local sectarian bigots coordinated their
      own plans to ignore the law and the Covid virus as they are the people?

      Indeed they are the people. The ones that need removed from our society for good.

    232. akenaton says:

      Well Stephen there is valid argument against unregulated immigration, but certainly no argument for sectarianism.

    233. Stephen says:

      Akenaton
      No argument for sectarianism
      /
      Agreed.
      But that is what we have.

    234. Lenny Hartley says:

      akenaton I believe they were not Illegal Immigrants but Asylum Seekers, there is a difference.

    235. akenaton says:

      Thanks Lenny, but I wasn’t referring specifically to the incident in Kenmuir St.

      BTW..I caught a glimpse of the two chaps coming out of the van and they looked rather prosperous and well fed for AS….just sayin’

    236. Stephen says:

      Scott Finlayson
      I didn’t know that.
      Justinian was a nasty piece of work.
      A philistine if ever there was one.

    237. robbo says:

      Fred says:
      16 May, 2021 at 12:30 pm
      “ The Police Officer who accepted the rangers scarf and did not immediately take it off – I sincerely hope that scarf had Covid on it”

      Oh come on Daisy, you’re angry -but that’s pretty nasty stuff, completely unnecessary and says more about the kind of person you are than anything else .
      In defence of the police the situation would have been much, much worse had they charged in and started to take people out. They were utterly outnumbered.
      What footage you have seen looks like inaction, but they had the intelligence to realise that the situation would burn itself out and that by not antagonising a highly volatile mass would result in far fewer casualties- including themselves.
      I’m certain the main perpetrators will be singled out on cctv and social media over the next few weeks and held to account.

      —————————————

      https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1393731173558390785

      Always happy to help- well I did work in Asda for a bit .

    238. akenaton says:

      Does anyone know exact where or what they were fleeing from?
      The Asylum policy is a mess, there must be millions living in dreadful conditions in Libya Syria Iraq who could have a massively better life for themselves and their extended families by moving here, by reality must strike us at some point?

    239. James Barr Gardner says:

      Dan says:
      16 May, 2021 at 12:31 pm
      Aye, George Square yesterday was just folk having “fun”…

      https://twitter.com/AlexTyler94/status/1393690170436722690

      These are the same folk who came to protect the Statues in the Square at last year’s BLM Protest………

    240. James Che. says:

      Atkenaton,
      That was exactly the point I was trying to make yesterday, maybe not so well as you.
      I have nothing against other people from other countries coming to Scotland maybe in the future, but not now,
      We can not support and look after an influx of other people, when we do not even have the ability to look after our own population which is becoming smaller by the minute.
      Sad to see my own family leaving as they did not have access to local housing , couldn’t find a decent paying job, ( my son was a carpet fitter) and could not afford even to get married here,
      We desperately need the good foundations of infrastructure of housing, employment, doctors and NHS, jobs with decent pay,
      What is the point of bringing others into a country to join the same problems we have,
      While we watch our own leave due to the lack of this infrastructure.
      To gut out the indigenous population through lack of opportunities and housing prices to replace with another group who will become little more than slaves to the elite with poor bleak future.
      If can can hold our heads up being capable to look after our own first,
      then perhaps we can consider looking after others.
      Who knows maybe some of our own families may return if we get it right, with their children for the next generations. growing the population statistics,
      I am pretty certain Westminster knows what it is doing, this is happening to England and Wales also.
      Which local anywhere will be left to protest, non will remember the original country and the indigenous people will be relegated to history books. the new locals are bought and paid for by governments owned by governments as the new underpaid work force,

    241. Stephen says:

      Akenaton
      /
      As I argued earlier, immigration is necessary for our future economic growth.
      Don’t condemn immigration from countries you may think have nothing to offer,

      Some great entrepreneurs came from the expulsion of Asians from Uganda by Amin.

    242. J.o.e says:

      @SusanXX

      I lived on and off in a place that was safe and nice. Then the place was absolutely flooded with 3rd world (insert group here) and the last time I was there for about a year my wife was too nervous to leave the flat on her own after being harassed and followed.

      Much of the 3rd world, especially the places with certain religious dogmas, are a nightmare for women and often children as well. We are importing that while making laws against criticizing it.

      Don’t tell that to the middle class bleeding hearts, the academic types and the other general sheltered folk who want to feel and look good in front of their equally clueless mates.

      There was a time a few years ago that to call the trans ideology a threat got you labelled as a bigot on this very site.

      Seems like we have to get our society into another mess, again that disproportionately affects women and girls, until we realise its a bad idea.

      But – better for people to suffer than for us to say or think something uncool, unenlightened and unliberal eh?

      Hush now – its just the future of women and our society in general we are talking about.

    243. Daisy Walker says:

      “ The Police Officer who accepted the rangers scarf and did not immediately take it off – I sincerely hope that scarf had Covid on it”

      Oh come on Daisy, you’re angry -but that’s pretty nasty stuff, completely unnecessary and says more about the kind of person you are than anything else .
      In defence of the police the situation would have been much, much worse had they charged in and started to take people out. They were utterly outnumbered.’

      The Police Officer should have declined to have the scarf put round his neck. If not able to do that – he should have removed it straight away and handed it back. Politely.

      You are absolutely correct in stating that the situation would have been made much worse by charging in… and at no point did I say that.

      Crowd control, starts a good 6 months before an event, intelligence gathering, identifying the bad apples and preventing them from getting to the event, identifying them early doors at the match if they do get in, and having high levels of Police on them from the get go, ensuring a very long walk to other key destinations, in addition to the closing of off licence venues and pubs on route – keep them moving, keep the sober, keep the co-ordinators away from the sheep.

      There was a complete lack of that at yesterdays event – which is no surprise because there was a complete lack of it at the previous one. The word is out – you want to behave like a hooligan – you’ll get free reign in Glasgow.

      Aftermath Policing is a very poor second to prevention.

      And just to put it into context further – if an on duty Constable had been seen to wear that Rangers scarf – with no ifs or buts – they would be seriously disciplined for it.

      But look again at those drunken crowds, have a count. They’ve come from all over. And they will return to all over. We already know that large sporting events spread Covid.

      How many businesses and families, and opportunities will be devastated by a third lock down? Cause that is what has just been put into action.

      If that scarf had Covid on it – then the officer has NO-ONE but himself to blame. And since it wasn’t me who handed him it – the ‘nasty stuff’ is all on them.

    244. J.o.e says:

      @Stephen

      Immigration is only necessary to keep economic growth ahead of our ability to cover debt.

      We are being told to have less children, that population is bad for the planet BUT we need import people from very alien cultures and traditions in order to maintain growth?

      The banking sector needs immigration. The banking sector needs continually growing base of people taking on loans/mortgages.

      When the government starts properly incentivizing Scottish families to have kids and to give those kids a future, while actually promoting healthy families then i’ll start believing the whole ‘growth’ garbage.

      The immigraton situation is also coming from the same people who push the trans thing. For the same reasons
      .

    245. robbo says:

      And on and on and on it goes. More like this young lassie and the world would be a better place- mibee

      https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1393823584217452544

    246. James Che. says:

      Stephen. I do not disagree with you. But some own great entrepreneurs have had to leave first for centuries, to make room for them,
      That is why there has been a need for immigration,
      My son and his friend worked long hours her in Scotland and got no encouragement or incentives from our goverment, no help with housing physically or financially. And could barely afford a car.
      Like I said he was a carpet fitter here,
      The encouragement to better himself from the New Zealand goverment was entirely different,
      His work place encouraged him to learn technology
      . His work place encouraged rewards to be recognised for the hardest workers in their companies, his pay was higher than the equivalent here.
      My son received an award publicly for hardest worker of the year for three years consecutively.
      My son had the opportunity that is not given here in Scotland to climb the ladder in his workplace in a very busy freight shipping company, he is now in charge of 18 other men,
      It is not that we are not talented or hard workers in Scotland,
      It is due to being held back by our own governments
      ,a high percentage of inventions that we use every day have come from Scotland, by entrepreneurs.
      We have home grown entrepreneurs and hard workers.
      My brothers started a small garden tidy business years ago, and through hard work and sheer determination and Great skills, grew their business so before they retired the had worked with film companies such as the film Macbeth and sat eating lunch with Mel Gibson,
      They have worked with Andy Stuart, and played music for live aid in their day with the rich and famous. They were asked to make a water wheel from scratch to certain dimensions for Chelsea flower show, it was televised.
      We have multitalented people here in Scotland right under our noses, over the years on this site there have been geologist, doctors, Alex Salmond and of corse the Rev stu,
      We have the talent, we have the skills, we have the entrepreneurs. We have the intelligence and we have resources,
      What we don’t have is people whom believe in us Stephen.

      ,

    247. Stephen says:

      James Che
      Good post.

      Andy Stewart was a great advert for Scotland and was much loved wherever he went.

    248. Dave Hansell says:

      It’s interesting to see not only the contrast between two events in Glasgow over a period of forty eight hours but also some of the reaction to those events.

      On Thursday the publicly available objective evidence is that a community of people peacefully gathered together to prevent the undermining of UK legal due process – and by extension UK Law – on the part of the State in attempting to illegally deport two members of the community. A process which took place over a period of eight hours with no violence, no injuries and no damage to property or person.

      On Saturday the publicly available evidence is that a significantly large enough group of people who in other contexts would and have been described as ‘indegenous Scots’ rampaged around parts of Glasgow causing mayhem, injuries to other members of the community through the application of sustained violence, damage to property, and generally terrorising others with minimal effective competent response from the police and other authorities whose job it is to prevent such outcomes.

      Notwithstanding the reality that in any group there are always those who kick the arse out of it, it is pertinent to also note no one kicked the arse out of anything on Thursday except the Immigration arm of the State in undermining the laws of due process in attempting to illegally deport two members of the community. Members of the community who are making a positive contribution.

      Whilst it is the case that some of the response in the BTL commentary to Saturdays events in Glasgow have been critical of the behaviour of those involved it is also the case that some contributors have chosen instead to focus more on trying to paint the events of Thursday as being worthy of more concern in terms of falsely accusing the community of breaking the law to protect what they, also falsely, claim to be “illegal immigrants.”

      All the while pointedly and studiously, for the most part, ignoring the stark contrast between the two events and the negative picture it paints of a significant section of Scottish society which self identifies as the only legitimate indigenous representatives of Scottish society compared to ex-pats from other parts of the world in order to push a negative stereotype narrative of “immigrants.”

      It’s bad enough having the extreme individualistic subjectivism and arbitrary personalism woke approach shoved down your throat on the sex/gender matter without having that same woke mob mentality extended to the same simplistic dog whistle reductionism of indegenous/immigrant.

      Listening to some of the video clips and ‘interviews’ from those who engaged in Saturday’s events, if Scottish society and its economy were ever to hang it’s hat on being wholly reliant on the attitudes on display with no recourse to immigration Scotland would not even be able to aspire to the status of banana republic.

      Going down this route is falling for a very obvious divide and rule approach which creates a hierarchy of oppression when the reality is that most employment has disappeared from these islands as a result of those who are no different from feudal rentiers transferring most jobs to other parts of the world and via technological substition.

      Those responsible will be sat smiling in smug satisfaction of a job well done at some of the commentary on this thread which scapegoats the “other” and gives them a free pass.

      We seem to have become a people of forelock tuggers and cap doffers.

    249. Pixywine says:

      People. Take heart from marchers and people power. From what I’ve seen of the many marches and street demonstrations that have taken place over the past year there has been no “spike” in flus or death. It is a God given or nature if you like, right to hit the streets. You are Free. You don’t need Governments permission although the latest Westminster crime Bill Will outlaw Street demonstrations. My main problem with Government approach to demonstrations is that some seem Government approved while the hundreds of thousands of anti lockdown protestors who march through London every Saturday are treated as a contagious health risk, for political purposes of course. Does anyone still have “contagion angst”?

    250. Pixywine says:

      Daisy. It’s drive by covid attacks you really need watch out for. “If that scarf had covid on it”. Fucking what?????

    251. A Jambo says:

      Is it the case that they have not paid tax for 10 years? If that’s the case, boot them. If not, then they should be welcome.

    252. Stuart MacKay says:

      @Dave Hansell

      I think too much is being made of the Rangers fans’ “celebrations”. We had the same here in Lisbon a few days ago when Sporting won the league title after 20 years of being the silverware wilderness. Lots of fans, mostly young, letting of steam, having a fight and throwing cobblestones at the police with lots of pyrotechnics, rubber bullets and a few beatings with police batons after essentially a year of lockdown.

      As an exercise just change a few variables. What would be the reactions if Yousaf had sent in Police Scotland to arrest a couple of people for hate crimes and instead a full-fledged riot with chalk being thrown in all directions had taken place.

      What will be interesting is if these displays of opposition to the authorities persist. Then we’ll see people’s true positions reveal themselves.

      @Daisy Walker

      Been thinking about what you said regarding Kenmure Street being staged. Hard to say but I guess if it was staged then hats off to the stagers – it shows a little more political cohones than we’ve seen of late.

      The SNP and their paid-for news outlets are quick to make political capital of it, which is interesting. Not sure whether this is furthering their neo-liberal agenda or not.

    253. Republicofscotland says:

      “I think too much is being made of the Rangers fans’ “celebrations”. We had the same here in Lisbon a few days ago when Sporting won the league title after 20 years of being the silverware wilderness.”

      Stuart MacKay.

      I’m sure the hospitalised police officers will disagree with your point of view. Its not acceptable behaviour in Scotland to go on a rampage damaging public property, and attacking members of the public and the police just because your football team happens to win a trophy.

      The behaviour cannot be condoned in any fashion, vast amounts of emergency service were used to mop up the mayhem caused by so called football supporters,(Though I’m not tarring all the RFC fans with the same brush) which would’ve left them thin on the ground to deal with other more legitimate emergencies.

      If they find it acceptable to run amok fighting, assaulting and damaging public property in Spain, then that’s for the Spanish to bear the brunt of it, but its not acceptable in Scotland period, from any football or sporting fans no matter what they win.

      In my personal opinion the RFC fans (not all of them) brought shame and dishonour on Scotland yesterday, especially to the city of Glasgow and its denizens.

    254. Stuart MacKay says:

      J.o.e

      Your mistake is taking the actions of a few and generalising to all. The overwhelming majority of people are decent and that’s why tarring entire groups gets the negative reaction it deserves.

      As for the trans debate early on. Wasn’t here so can’t say but while it might have been based on ignorance and over reaction I think now the motivations by those involved are reasonably well understood.

      As demonstration of that is that most people here weighing in on the debate today are easily able to distinguish between “trans because they are”, “trans because they want to be” and “trans because they were told to be”. The conflict is much more nuanced and focussed on fixing the wrongs without prejudicing the position that people with a “need” should be helped, while people with a “want” should be told to where to get off.

      But back to your position of immigration and unwanted behaviours. I think recent events in the English Midlands shows that desperate men are desperate. However, you fail on two counts. First you fail on recognising that trafficking and exploitation takes place on massive scale by non-immigrants. Secondly, openly questioning immigration using that as a pretext is simply fuel for some much, much nastier elements which would put yourself and other non-English people in harms way. These are the flames which you a fanning and that’s why you get a bad reaction to what you post.

    255. Captain Yossarian says:

      Regarding the events of Thursday; Alison Thewliss is the constituency MP and so she will be aware of the case from start to finish. She was there on Thursday and so if anyone set it up it was likely her. Before they can deport anyone, applicants for assylum go through court prodedures and appeals and I believe that was done in this case and so it was legal and, in fact, routine.

      Regarding the behaviour of Rangers fans; Most folk in Glasgow grew-up supporting Rangers or Celtic and it was because their fathers did that. In the school I went to there used to be fights every Friday after school in Kings Park between kids from Kings Park and other kids from Holyrood and so it has been going-on for a long time.

      The industry I work in employs thousands of Rangers and Celtic fans who actually go-along to Ibrox and Celtic Park every other week to watch their teams. Believe it or not, I cannot recall one incident or even arguement between them in 30-years and so it is a complete invention of our present political class who know feck-all about anything.

      Maybe if Celtic won the league and it was 10-in-a-row it would have been much the same, who knows?

      All Sturgeon, Swinney and Yousaf are doing just now is ‘othering’ the Rangers supporters just as they do with Alba and the Tories.

      Their comments show just how staggeringly useless to Scotland all three of them are.

    256. Dave Hansell says:

      Stuart,

      It’s a reasonable point. However, it’s also reasonable to ask the questions as to:

      A. whether or not the event you refer to in Lisbon was the first occasion in which those involved were in, what we’ll refer to as, a fracas or whether that event was merely the latest in long line of sectarian based mayhem, violence and intimidation as it was in Glasgow on Saturday?

      B. Whether there were people bussed in or flying from a neighbouring country – say Spain, Morocco, or even Gibraltar to participate in the, in the case of Glasgow, planned/premeditated mayhem motivated by enforcing sectarian jingoistic superiority?

      Point being that on the available evidence so far it does not appear that we are comparing like with like.

      It would also seem reasonable to seek some clarification on the context in which the observation about “arrests for Hate Crime” is made?

      Is this a direct reference to Saturdays events in Glasgow or a reference to some other instance which I’ve missed?

      I ask because if it is a direct reference to the events in Glasgow on Saturday it would seem reasonable to point out that in any list of potential and effective responses, to what is in reality another manifestation of a long sequence of similar events from the same section of society, a charge of ‘hate Crime’ is probably at the bottom in terms of options.

      Indeed, there exists a whole plethora of Public Order options to choose from and it’s certainly intriguing to consider why it is they were not considered as more viable options rather than reverting to the straw man of “hate Crime”?

    257. Alf Baird says:

      Stephen @ 9:50 am

      “Therefore the only way to increase GDP, absent productivity, is through immigration.”

      Actually, the best way to increase GDP is to significantly increase exports, according to Fraser of Allander Inst. So rather less to do with immigration. Increasing immigration also does not reduce poverty; it is more likely to exacerbate poverty, especially where a country imports much of its meritocratic elite as opposed to developing its own people, such as in the colonial reality Scotland faces.

    258. Republicofscotland says:

      Captain Yossarian @4.07pm.

      Yeah I’ve read a few unbelievable comments online where they’ve tried to compare the Kenmure street incident with what RFC fans did yesterday, I find it laughable, and I’m sure they must have had brassnecks and red faces when they typed out their comments.

      One consisted of a group of citizens peacefully attempting to stop the deportation of two men who are not illegal immigrants.

      The other was a savage mob roaming the city of Glasgow assaulting members of the public and the police, which has absolutely nothing to do with winning a football trophy.

      I loathe Nicola Sturgeon, but I hope she has the decency to act on this disgraceful behaviour.

      Jim Spence, who recently came out for Alba and Scottish independence, has said this with regards to media folk speaking out about events such as yesterdays.

      “If you upset them they still have ways of making sure you don’t pick up a microphone again with their connections. Their reach is long as is their memory and patience. If you think the morons on the ground are the only ones responsible think again.”

    259. Dave Hansell says:

      Republic of Scotland 4:07 pm:

      Quite so. The excuses and bizarre comparisons being trotted out have a whiff of desperation about them.

      The repeated terminological inexactitudes falsely smearing those at the center of Thursdays events as “illegal” is as woke as you can get: elevating subjective/opinion based reality over objective evidence to enforce a mob view.

      As stark an example as you can get of the “binary relationship between extreme individualistic subjectivism and extreme state authoritarianism”. An approach not limited to the self identified “progressive/left” (sic) who are, albeit, doing all the heavy lifting for a regressive right wing post-modernism.

    260. Stephen says:

      Alf Baird
      The Fraser of Allander report is encyclopaedic and obviously very informative.
      It mentions exports among many other things.
      You will notice the relatively static nature of Scotland’s real GDP/ GDP per head, etc over the past 20 years.

      Increasing exports improves the balance of payments and therefore currency reserves. Increased exports comes from increased orders and the resultant sales from export oriented companies.
      However those increased sales will have been achieved through competitive advantage brought about by improved productivity.

      Direct investment in and incentives to those companies could also do the trick.

      The problem is that, absent these things and with our economy and the size of our economy flatlining, the only obvious way of growing the cake is through immigration.

    261. ebreah says:

      James Che @ talents in Scotland. I am very much bewildered by the belief that Scotland is talentless. Viewing from here in Malaysia, Scotland has much much more oil and natural resources, universities than we can only dream of attending, fantastic agri sector, manufacturing sector which can be rebuild easily, and most importantly, its people. Even if Scotland does not have all these advantages, from the two trips I made to Scotland, confirmed that the most valuable thing that Scotland possesses is its people. By that alone you can build Scotland to be what it wants to be.

      Daisy Walker @ Kenmure St. I don’t think it was staged. I don’t give SNP/Scottish govt that much credit to cook up this kind of event. From what we’ve seen and heard, particularly the Salmond saga, they cannot even organise a potluck of 2 persons without screwing it up. What I think happened was that somebody was fed up with the inaction/paralysis the SNP/Scottish govt seems to be caught with every time something important comes up, decided to do something. They organised and took direct action. And as usual SNP/Scottish govt took credit for it.

      What happened in Kenmure St gladdened my heart for so may reasons but in this context, it showed that when the Scottish people decides to act, they will act on it. This is a foretaste of what to come until the next Westminster GE. When the Scots finally takes a direct action to achieve independence, the SNP/Scottish govt has to choose metaphorically: to be the Kenmure St protesters or the Home Office officers/vans?

    262. Breeks says:

      akenaton says:
      16 May, 2021 at 12:53 pm
      Does anyone know exact where or what they were fleeing from?

      Clearances?

    263. Captain Yossarian says:

      ‘The repeated terminological inexactitudes falsely smearing those at the center of Thursdays events as “illegal” is as woke as you can get: elevating subjective/opinion based reality over objective evidence to enforce a mob view.’

      The decision to deport is only taken after an appeals court hearing and judgement. You cannot get any more objective/exact/accurate than that.

    264. twathater says:

      Why is it when people want to discuss situations which they believe is not to their or their fellow citizens benefit they are labelled

      I don’t agree with the SNP’s policies on immigration , I don’t believe we should accept everyone without consideration of the impact on our own traditions and societal beliefs, I don’t believe we should have an open door policy, I FIRMLY believe that the establishment should stop interfering in and manipulating the governance of other countries and selling them armaments which would go a very long way to STOP the mass exodus of individuals

      I don’t agree with the SNP’S decision that anyone who lives in Scotland should have a vote on whether we should be independent or not , I believe in NO taxation without representation but the constitutional question should have a minimal residency requirement of ten years and a SCOTTISH tax code

      I don’t agree with the SNP’S GRA amendments or the HCB law , I am EXTREMELY concerned that my right to disagree or oppose things that I don’t consider beneficial to myself or others is being made illegal

      ALL these things are being acted on without ANY input from ordinary citizens and our ability to either disagree or oppose is being stifled and shut down by labelling the dissenter as a racist,homophobe,misanthrope, misogynist,anti semitic,or anything else that can be used to silence dissent, we have become a world where ONLY certain people can decide what is and what is not acceptable and if you are not in agreement you are a pariah

    265. Effigy says:

      Look at this cover up from the Daily Redcoat
      Officers were allegedly pelted with flares and smoke bombs as well as items on the street during clashes around George Square.

      F”””” Allegedly ?
      How many hours of footage from a hundred different sources do they need before they can say it happened?

    266. bipod says:

      Looks like no one is taking nicolas glasgow lockdown very seriously. We had a big protest earlier this week when the home office tried to deport those people, an action nicola supported and didn’t criticise them once for breaching covid restrictions. We had the big rangers celebration yesterday and today there was the big free free palestine march right through glasgow. I am sure nicola has already bashed rangers but I am certain she will have nothing to say free palestine protesters even though they are breaking the covid restrictions in exactly the same way.

      If nicola isn’t going to be consistent with her condemnations why she anyone else care.

    267. akenaton says:

      Well said TW!

    268. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dave Hansell

      My observation was more about the righteous refugees and the villainous football supporters and that in a different set of circumstances the response from the Scottish government and allied media would be entirely reversed.

      The country would be so much better off if instead of grandstanding the government actually tried to solve the festering wound that sectarianism represents.

      Sorry for not addressing your questions – it’s way too big a topic to deal with. The only real enmity here is between clubs and nothing else, though the clashes between Lisbon and Porto supporters tend to a bit more violent.

    269. Dave Hansell says:

      ” The decision to deport is only taken after an appeals court hearing and judgement. You cannot get any more objective/exact/accurate than that.”

      Well when the due process procedure has been completed that statement will come into effect.

      https://archive.is/8bd8a

      Until such time it would seem reasonable not to count the chickens before they are hatched.

      Given the available evidence in numerous instances to the contrary that is certainly a touching faith in the motivation and infallibility of Perfidious Albion by the way.

    270. Ruby says:

      https://twitter.com/no_evictions

      It looks as if “No Evictions Network” were heavily involved in the Kenmure St protest.

      They’ve posted the following:

      “Police out in P’shields this morning playing the ‘good guys liaison officer
      role, taking off their masks and smiling while asking people about how they found out about the van etc – these guys aren’t
      our pals.
      They will take all information and use to shut
      down future actions.”

      How they found out about the van is quite an interesting question.

      Another tweet suggested the the two asylum seekers/refugees/illegal immigrants? had been evicted because the landlord didn’t want to get into trouble. Another tweet said it had been sorted.

      I vaguely remember something about landlords being responsible for finding out the ‘immigration status’ of renters. Anyone got any info?

      How many crimes were committed? Would lying under a van be a crime?

      As long as he can prove he voted SNP 1&2 he should be OK.

      What about the organiser does he risk jail like Manny Singh?

    271. Daisy Walker says:

      @ bipod, re ‘today there was the big free free palestine march right through glasgow. I am sure nicola has already bashed rangers but I am certain she will have nothing to say free palestine protesters even though they are breaking the covid restrictions in exactly the same way.’

      The free palistine protesters – are they rampaging through the streets in a foul mouthed drunken manner?

      Are they singing songs of violence towards another religion?

      Are they breaking bottles, openly pissing and shitting in the streets? Damaging street fittings?

      Are they fighting with the Police? Putting some of them in hospital, or with other ‘protesters’ in the vicinity?

      But yeah… ‘breaking the covid restrictions in exactly the same way.’

      Between the last Glasgow Rangers Supporters ‘event’ and this one… I wonder how many cops were re-deployed to deal with the additional investigations/prosecutions… I wonder how many were temporarily re assigned duties to a specific task force to ensure it didn’t happen again.

      What’s the betting the answer to that is a big fat zero, covered over in REDACTED ink. But who can blame them, not when 22 officers get deployed to try and stitch up one man on maliscious charges. They can’t be everywhere. And the good news is, the ones making that decision, will have been nowhere near the violence on the streets yesterday. No chance. They will not be the cops in hospital with injuries.

      Wonder if the Police Federation will do what they’re supposed to and dig into it, try and protect their colleagues. Nahhhh. I know better.

    272. Ruby says:

      She/Her has said the Rangers fans were very naughty boys.

      Chief Dogger has a New Moderation Policy.

      Any criticism of She/Her is absolutely verboten.

      He also says:

      ‘Anyone who attempts to use this site to post hatred, bigotry, or conspiracy theories will be banned. If you attempt to insult and abuse anyone you will be banned.’ 🙂

      I think you might be OK the insults & abuse are directed towards Stuart Campbell & Alex Salmond.

    273. Captain Yossarian says:

      Dave Hansell – The entire appeals process ran its course. A judgement was handed-down and the door is closed, Dave. We have a law and the same law is applicable everywhere. It was not ‘illegal’; it was perfectly legal and if our Justice Minister and First Minister weren’t such a pair of biggots they would just accept that and move-on.

    274. J.o.e says:

      @Stuart Mackay

      I get a bad reaction (I actually get no reaction) to what I post because it hits too close to the bone.

      When I talk about the problems of mixing people from drastically different cultures, ethnicities and back grounds too fast and in too large number its coming from lived experience.

      Im sure you are making a ‘grooming gang’ reference here. Well, let me assure you – if gangs of mainly white British men were luring, drugging, kidnapping, raping, whoring out, torturing 10’s of thousands of girls of specifically different backgrounds over several decades while the police looked the other way (and sometimes actually prosecuted the girls), and politicians made sure to turn a blind eye then I simply cannot imagine the tears and mourning and facebook posts and twitter storms and the banners and the protests (yes, feminists really would get involved then). NOt only that we would be constantly reminded of the original sin of being white and British or Scottish or whichever would suit the marxists at any given time. What am I saying, its already happening.

      Worse if this happened and the government report was released on the ‘grooming gangs’ and the Scottish government had a big debate about a white man who died being arrested in the USA…well…honestly words and imagination fail me at the outrage that would cause.

      Instead it was a mainly (insert certain religion here) minority group destroying the lives of mainly whites girls and some other girls of other minority backgrounds. So in THAT case well the response is ‘not all of them are like that’.

      ‘But Joe, that was in ENGLAND. It’s their problem’. Well, that could have happened in Tasmania and if the perpetrators had been of northern European heritage specifically targeting other groups it still would have been rammed down our throats.

      The simple fact is the 3rd world comes with a load of baggage and it isn’t racism or bigotry to advise caution. The statistics from all around Europe have been showing this for years. The trouble is what passes for liberalism now is basically reality denying insanity and getting the people who fall into this category to look at reality is neigh on impossible – they would literally rather have girls raped than have their beliefs challenged

      Of course, we can just all feel good and ignore it. Don’t want to be one of them bigots dontchaknow.

      But! Look at those Ranger fans? Aren’t THEY also barbarians? Yes, but we aren’t about to make the decision to import their sectarian bullshit. They are already here. Unfortunately

    275. Sensibledave says:

      Douglas McMillan 9.13

      No Douglas, sadly you are not the only person desperate to be offended or gagging to find discrimination in anything they read.

      The “Kent Variant” nomenclature is clearly aimed at degrading the good folk of Tonbridge Wells.

      … grow up ffs.

    276. robbo says:

      Acht Davie boy . I don’t think the people of Tonbridge Wells care too much. They don’t live in Kent. Just saying.

    277. Alf Baird says:

      Stephen @ 4:56 pm

      “the only obvious way of growing the cake is through immigration.”

      I don’t see this ‘obvious way’ being pursued in most successful Nordic countries.

      Scotland’s resources are already vast for the size of its population, the problem we have is most Scots do not share in these resources/wealth as much as they might if the country were independent. Much of the wealth in the Scottish economy has been and is still filched out; colonialism is primarily about economic plunder and exploitation, after all.

      There are clearly a number of ways to raise GDP in what remains an underdeveloped and exploited economy, including as noted here:

      https://scotlandspeaks.com/a-maritime-vision-for-an-independent-scotland

      A newly independent country might also expect many of its own diaspora to return ‘home’ and invest, including descendants of those who were forced to leave as economic migrants due to lack of opportunities in their own land, and who already hold a sense of belonging to Scotland. One of the highest costs of UK alliance for Scotland was a loss of between 3-4 million Scots, which is one of the largest losses of population in W.Europe for a country of Scotland’s size.

    278. Stephen says:

      Alf Baird
      If you are the Alf Baird I think you are then I will defer to you on maritime issues!

      Otherwise we are clearly in disagreement.

      But that’s ok.

    279. PacMan says:

      Ruby says: 16 May, 2021 at 6:16 pm

      It looks as if “No Evictions Network” were heavily involved in the Kenmure St protest.

      How they found out about the van is quite an interesting question.

      How did the “No Evictions Network” find out about it? The power of social media. While protests take weeks in advance to get organised, they can also be spontaneous.

      On the TV, there was too many ones with the Bearsden accent that made me suspicious that a lot of ones at that protest were not from the area.

      It could simply have started off as a local protest which increased due to getting exposure on social media. We’ve got a lot of people on lock down and on furlough with nothing to do and pissed off with what is happening overall then it’s hardly surprising that groups are going to exploit the situation.

      I’ve got a feeling we are going to see lot of this. I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be a while before Glasgow gets out of the lock down.

    280. Dave Somerville says:

      If that was a YES Rally yesterday, the tanks would have been on the streets.

      It would have been headline News on every News paper and BBC Scotland would have had about a dozen reporters telling it as only a BBC Scotland reporter can.

      It would have been labelled the “March of Death”.

    281. kapelmeister says:

      Paul Kavanagh’s banning all phobic comments on his blog, and he shall be the arbiter of what is a phobic comment and what is not.

      He seems unaware that he himself has a phobia of free speech.

    282. Alec Lomax says:

      Kapelmeister, you do slaver a load of pish.

    283. kapelmeister says:

      If Kavanagh thinks Sturgeon has achieved such moral and political greatness why does he not also think that she will be impervious to negative comments?

    284. Skip_NC says:

      Ruby @ 6:49pm, I simply had to take a look at WGD after your post. Basically, the moderation policy is “Don’t criticise the SNP or Green leadership.” Sometimes it is necessary to criticise leaderships. That’s how we keep them on their toes. With a moderation policy like that, it will cease to be an effective communication tool and the cause of independence will be damaged.

      In my youth, I sought to be involved in committees of whatever organisation I was a member of. Then I matured and graduated to the Awkward Git at the Back of the Room. Every organization needs its Awkward Gits.

    285. kapelmeister says:

      Alex Lomax, the only good thing about your posts is that they are brief.

    286. PacMan says:

      The UK government is dealing with immigration. Their solution is to raise the age of retirement. At the moment I am due to retire when I’m 67 but I’m sure it won’t be long until they move the goalposts again and my retirement age will have increased.

      Another alternative to immigration is the phenomenon of shrinking cities in Japan to deal with their ageing population without resorting to large-scale immigration.

      I can’t find the link to the specific city that had did this but basically what they did was encourage their elderly population to move to the city centre and introduce a tram system for easier transportation.

      They also move support services into the city centre for easier access for the elderly population as well as centralisation of services where it could be efficiently staffed.

      The side effect from this was that the local city economy was revitalised which created taxation to fund services.

      This is something that can easily be done here considering the slow death of the high street in most city centres due to people moving to on-line purchases.

      It’s been shown to work. The only hurdle is the political willpower to do so.

    287. John Main says:

      It will be a frosty day in hell before anybody can convince me that the cause of Scottish Independence is advanced in any way by importing new voters to influence the next referendum. And I believe this is true whether these new voters come from Austria or Angola.

      As other posters have pointed out, not one of the struggling Scots already here is helped to get a job, a home, or a hospital bed when the competition for these scarce resources is made even more ferocious.

      But the lunacy that really gets me. There is an absolute tsunami of unemployment heading our way as advancing tech and automation consigns entire categories of employment to the dustbin of history. Just how, exactly, do the pro-immigration posters believe increasing immigration can be made to work with radically decreasing employment?

      Generous, free benefits for all? You can have generous benefits, or you can have open borders. But you can’t have both. The two are mutually exclusive.

    288. PacMan says:

      It’s best to ignore PayPal Kavanaghs site.

      There is the occasional good post but the rest is absolute guff. Nothing but a vapid echo chamber full of chattering toothless hens.

    289. Dave Somerville says:

      The Dug has a Sturgeon Cult like readership.

      He seems to relate to Sturgeon as if she’s a Demagogue.

      I also think it will be the Gay connection that they have in common.

      Ginger Dug, the SNP and the Greens are now going to be the driving force within Scottish Politics for the foreseeable future.

      They have a blank canvas to work with.

      And we can’t do a single thing about it.

    290. Skip_NC says:

      Dave Somerville, yes we can. Those resident in Scotland can campaign for independence and those of us outwith can, at least, fund Alba and pro-independence campaigns to the extent permitted by law.

      We need to get out on the streets and take the independence message to the people of Scotland. Then we need to, starting with the council elections next year, campaign to elect Alba representatives at all levels of government in Scotland. Yes, I know it’s a long road. Alba’s share of the vote takes us back to the 1960’s but the organization we have looks to me like the SNP of the 1980’s. If nothing else, that makes it fun and sociable. That’s a pretty good base from which to build. Id the Scottish people really want independence, I think it will not take as long to get to a referendum as it took the first time around.

      The seed has been planted. It just needs to germinate.

    291. PacMan says:

      @ John Main

      Agreed about sectors of economy disappearing due to automation. The service sector is also shrinking due to technology where fewer people are shopping on the high street and going on-line instead.

      It also has to be noted about the change of societies habits. A lot of noise is being made in the media about the pub trade and night time economy imploding due to lock down restrictions.

      Even just before the pandemic, pubs were shut during the week, going out for a few drinks on a Friday was a waste of time as everywhere was dead. The only time that pubs and clubs were busy was on a Saturday night and only as the evening went on as everybody was sitting in the house with carry-outs then going out late on.

      The pandemic only accelerated the changes to the service sector that was already happening. Are these lost jobs going to be replaced?

    292. kapelmeister says:

      Skip_NC @8:49

      That’s the spirit! Agree with every word. SNP votes and Labour votes are there for Alba to take.

    293. James Che. says:

      Ebreah. I totally agree with you, that was the facts I was putting across.
      Scotland is an amazing country with many resources filled with inventors and entrepreneurs throughout the ages.
      Take for instance John Loudon McAdam, Scottish engineer, invented tarmac that now is used, covers nearly all the roads around the world, he went into business with a welsh man,
      John Rennie MacIntosh famous artist and designer.
      John Logie Baird-television.
      John Boyd Dunlop-pneumatic tyre.
      Alexander Fleming-penicillins.
      Charles Macintosh-waterproof fabric.
      John Wilson watt-radar.
      The Scots have made massive contributions to the whole world, and there are hundreds more to numerous to mention here,
      We can and will gain our independence, and we have the resources and intelligence with the capacity for hard work, our biggest problem is being held hostage to a false treaty that none of us signed or agreed to, and fear, because we have been told for centuries we are to wee, too poor and too stupid, and hostage holders are colonialists.

    294. Cenchos says:

      The dug kens what side its gingerbread is buttered on.

    295. Ruby says:

      PacMan says:
      16 May, 2021 at 7:54 pm
      Ruby says: 16 May, 2021 at 6:16 pm

      It looks as if “No Evictions Network” were heavily involved in the Kenmure St protest.

      How they found out about the van is quite an interesting question.

      How did the “No Evictions Network” find out about it? The power of social media.

      Reply

      I was thinking more about them finding in advance.

      The police are asking protesters how they found out about the van.

      I presume the police would know all about social media and the reason for their questioning is to find out if the info about the van coming was leaked in advance.

    296. Captain Yossarian says:

      James Che. says:
      16 May, 2021 at 9:07 pm

      That’s a good list of names, James. Just about the same list of names I would have provided myself. There’s still a healthy respect for Scottish engineers overseas, but it is diminishing.

      I visited a railway station in Africa once and the chief engineer was a Scotsman who looked to be about 70. He built the railway and just stayed therefor the rest of his life.

      The Black Sea Port which is home to the Russian Navy was also built by Scotsmen. They have a street there called McKenzie Street in honor of one of the workers who was killed while working there.

    297. Breeks says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      16 May, 2021 at 8:41 pm

      They have a blank canvas to work with…

      Problem is, it’s been blank for six years and counting…

      There is no plan. There is no strategy. There is no initiative. There is no progress. There is only blind faith, and that is sorely misplaced.

    298. Don says:

      Douglas MacMillan 15 May, 2021 at 9:01 am

      “Call me a romantic but what we witnessed on Thursday was people power at work. The state was defeated because the community acted in defence of their own. Real people taking action and they won.

      If communities can win here, then what more can communities achieve with regard to their environment, their housing and their education if they can organise and make a stand?”

      I would call you niave at best , the two people being removed were Sikhs not moslems so no disrespect to Eid had been mad ebecause Sikhs do not celebrate that at all. These people had came here as Viitors and overstayed their permit , they came from India where their is no war or persecution so are NOT Asylum Seekers of any type. No country I know of just lets people move in and stay without permission to do so , therefore no crime against these to people was committed. Try going to Germany , Spain, Denmark , Iceland and overstay your visitor Visa and see what happens to you too.

    299. Ruby says:

      PacMan says:
      16 May, 2021 at 8:36 pm
      It’s best to ignore PayPal Kavanaghs site.

      Reply
      No!
      His behaviour & that of his supporters is v. interesting.

    300. Ruby says:

      She/Her tweets:

      “The Home Office needs to ask itself hard questions after today. Doing this on Eid, in the heart of our Muslim community, and in the midst of a serious Covid outbreak was staggeringly irresponsible – but the even deeper problem is an appalling asylum & immigration policy.”

      How would the UK Government know which parts of Glasgow are Muslim & which parts are Christian?

      What relevance does Eid have for Sikhs or two guys from India who may be agnostic.

      Should the criticism about a serious Covid outbreak not be directed at the protesters rather than the UK Gov?

      Who gave PayPaul the £20K? Can the £600K Ringfenced Fund unaccounted for
      be reduced by £20?

    301. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Regular readers had an inkling that the final curtain may be about to fall here after the election results had been confirmed (because Stu had told us) but folk ‘out there’ generally had no idea. We saw that sense of shock, and genuine upset, in the hundreds of tributes on the previous thread.

      I don’t know how many of the voters in the Twitter poll I posted on May 6th were fans of this place but 1,517 votes in the space of three days is not to be sniffed at…

      ‘Would Scottish political discourse be ‘healthier’ if Wings over Scotland shuts up shop?
      (Please disregard your personal ‘feelz’ about Stu Campbell and/or his supporters, if you can. If you can’t, please don’t vote.)’

      Result:

      Yes 23.7%
      No 76.3%

      Twitter polls mean nothing, as Stu has often reminded us, but from that it would seem fair to assume that a large number of folk who are engaged with the independence debate now feel that the quality of discourse has been diminished. I’ll put a link to the original poll/tweet for those who want to check the stats and comments. It was interesting to see so many voters explaining why they can’t stand Stu personally, but recognise the value of his work.

      It’s up to us to make an effort to keep giving them a reason to come here, for at least as long as the comment facility remains open.

      I don’t want to appear to be bad-mouthing any other Scottish independence-supporting blogger (apart from Kavanagh, who has disgraced himself repeatedly and should now be observing a lengthy period of complete silence instead of penning yet more tripe) but none of them have ever offered the combination of comment-friendly format and breadth of coverage which attracted many of us to Wings in the first place.

      The initial shock of Stu’s announcement has now worn off. We have to be clear-headed in assessing how best to use this place for whatever time remains.

      (Oh, almost forgot – we also have to keep holiday-boy out of mischief for as long as possible!)

      https://twitter.com/ianbhood/status/1390398764180025347

    302. McDuff says:

      Twathater
      Hard to disagree with that.

    303. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Any Wingers going to Holyrood next Saturday?

    304. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Can you give us more detail?

      😉

    305. Flower of Scotland says:

      I’m bereft! I keep coming here because I can’t imagine a life without Stu Campbell.

      Trouble is there has been too many rotten Unionists or even some SNP, Nicola luvvies on here that I used to to disregard a lot of comments and only read the names I knew from 2012.

      This was really the only blog I read for years. I remember when I first joined Wings and was told politely that I had to have double spaces between paragraphs. Nights in Edinburgh and Glenrothes with Wingers were cherished. Meeting like minded folk was an absolute joy. Met Kevin from Independence Live, just starting out, at the Edinburgh do. What a great time that was.

      We are now in the the depths of despair, because we have a leader of the SNP who won’t allow discussions on Independence.

      What do we do. We join Alba. We carry on. Give Stu a break and thank him from the bottom of our hearts.

    306. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Holyrood, 22/05/21.

      https://archive.is/RYy2g

    307. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The country HAS gone mad…

      “A law student who said women have vaginas and are not as physically strong as men is being investigated by Abertay University.

      Disciplinary action is being taken against Lisa Keogh, 29, over “offensive” and “discriminatory” comments that she made during lectures at the Dundee-based university.

      The mature final-year student told the Times she was reported by younger classmates after she said women were born with female genitals and that “the difference in physical strength of men versus women is a fact”.

      The complaints have prompted a formal investigation into her conduct.”

      https://archive.is/bRX9A

    308. Stuart MacKay says:

      WoS always delivered what it said on the tin – Uncomfortable Truths before Comforting Lies. While some might welcome it’s demise we’re all definitely the poorer as a result. The force that rakes muck where there’s muck to rake is now gone from the universe.

      It seems that the blogosphere is now settling into two camps: pro-SNP and pro-Alba. The pro-SNP side appears to be a little too coordinated in their output – Kenmure Street at the start of the weekend and now the B1617 variant all mixed in with Tories baaaaaaad, baaaaaaad. Sooner or later they will have to realise that saying the “bad boy next door did it” probably stops working when most people are 7.

      As for the pro-Alba side. I’d rather this factionalisation was not happening. It’s not healthy as we’ll just end up with more he-said, she-said that’s going to get us precisely nowhere.

      A better approach would be to keep a respectful distance from the parties and instead keep then honest. The people are sovereign and it should be the people that dictate the parties’ actions not the other way round. They simply can’t be trusted not to fuck things up.

      Disclaimer: one of the things I want to see with voices.scot is more people blogging. Give more people a voice and try and get back to the Spirit of 14. Simply continuing with what’s been happening over the past year is going to be a disaster.

    309. Ruby says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      17 May, 2021 at 7:14 am
      The country HAS gone mad…

      “A law student who said women have vaginas and are not as physically strong as men is being investigated by Abertay University.

      Disciplinary action is being taken against Lisa Keogh, 29, over “offensive” and “discriminatory” comments that she made during lectures at the Dundee-based university.

      The mature final-year student told the Times she was reported by younger classmates after she said women were born with female genitals and that “the difference in physical strength of men versus women is a fact”.

      The complaints have prompted a formal investigation into her conduct.”

      https://archive.is/bRX9A

      Reply

      It would be great if we saw Kenmure St style protests about this!

    310. Dave Somerville says:

      Stuart Mackay. 7.52am

      I remember the beauty of the 2012 Yes Movement was that it was all inclusive.

      Party Politics never entered into it.

      No one asked a stranger within the Movement which Party they supported.

      And the SNP were never mentioned.

      It was People Power at it’s most beautiful.

      That is the reason why we have such fond memories of those heady days.

      And that is why it is so heartbreaking to see the state of the Movement now.

      And the reasons for the fall of the Yes Movement all lead back to the Murrells.

      Long may they rot in hell.

    311. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dave Somerville , aye indeed!

      My husband used to get worried when I went on the marches and I just told him that I would be amongst several thousand friends and I’d be fine.

      And I always was.

    312. stonefree says:

      @ Ruby at 6:49 pm

      “Chief Dogger has a New Moderation Policy.” that has been stolen from the Sturgeons, you get drummed out the Brownies (as a pal said)

      As for this tripe
      ‘Anyone who attempts to use this site to post hatred, bigotry, or conspiracy theories will be banned. ’
      That exactly what he did
      To hell with him and Small/Kelly

    313. Dave Hansell says:

      Captain Yossarian,

      The fact and reality this is subject to a legal challenge on the basis that due process had not run its course clearly indicates, even to a blind man on a galloping horse, that the process is not complete.

      It would seem reasonable to suggest that it’s best to deal with objective reality than continue down the subjective reality rabbit hole approach of the woke.

    314. Breeks says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      17 May, 2021 at 7:52 am.

      As for the pro-Alba side. I’d rather this factionalisation was not happening. It’s not healthy as we’ll just end up with more he-said, she-said that’s going to get us precisely nowhere.

      I commented a few days ago that ALBA should just forget about the SNP. Play it’s own game. They should strive to push themselves towards the centre of the pro-Independence realm, and take the lead by actions rather than words.

      Paradoxically, the action rather than words will most likely be words, but if I was running ALBA, I’d have the party stimulating debate, and doing it with authority.

      I do not believe a 500 page white paper is the way to do it. I kept asking myself, for who has all this been written? It bored the fkg life out of me, and I want Independence.

      I would compartmentalise the case for Independence into, say, maybe 10 or 12 compartments. Probably along the lines of Government Portfolios, as in, if there’s a Minister for it, there’s a chapter on it.

      But I wouldn’t present these chapters as definitive. You could, (and might have to) submit an outline proposal as an introduction, just to get the ball rolling, but then I would try to have various experts in their field be invited to engage with each other, (rather than preach their theories to us), and attempt to find consensus. Work too, towards comparing like with like, so the people can draw sense from comparison.

      We all know the Independence Arguments will say one thing and the Unionist arguments will say the opposite, but Scotland needs to progress beyond this polarised rhetoric, and become much more literate and informed. Stop being satisfied with half truths or rigged debates. No more dog food salesman masquerading as economic gurus.

      I am firmly convinced that the Independence Argument can be won emphatically on merit, and a big pillar in that belief is simply that the Unionist Media goes into prophylactic shock the moment anything constructive is said about Scotland. The truth seems to terrify them. Everything must be GERSified before broadcast, “Never mind the raw data, we have digested that data for you and here are the conclusions…”. That’s just not good enough.

      By the time these arguments are impacting on the people, the issues are already polarised, politicised, propagandised, and to a large extent purged of the truth. It’s the media and U.K. Government which is doing it.

      I believe what ALBA needs to do is forget about the SNP, and focus instead on commandeering the Independence narrative, and removing the focal point of debate and discussion away from TV and out of the hands on the Unionist hate-mob media.

      Have the all encompassing discussions, warts and all, with de-politicised objective opinions rigorously documented and scrutinised, like old school Panorama Documentaries used to do, and for god’s sake, treat the audience / electorate like adults. No more rigged data to confirm a pre-held assertion.

      Be authoritative and central to winning the Independence Debate objectively, and ALBA will have a glowing future, and Scotland will secure it’s Independence.

      Forget the SNP. They are off on a bender and, (for now), taking the support with them, but we know that sooner or later, they will have to return to the same Independence chestnut, and when they do, I hope they will find the territory and landscape is firmly in ALBA’s hands, defined by ALBA’s ideals, the Independence case can be judged fairly and squarely on ALBA’s thorough analysis and informed dissection of the Independence issues, and everything on the Independence horizon has been deliciously and sumptuously presented.

      I’m not that fussy about marches, or polls, or members, or manifestos, or leaders. Frankly it feels like it saps our strength rather than bolsters it. It feels static and becoming less effective. I don’t mean we should stop, because marching IS great for morale, but it’s not going to “win” if that makes sense. We need “more”. More reach. More persuasion. … More seduction.

      It’s not about the leader, it’s about the leadership, and that is where ALBA can seize the day, if it takes authoritative command of the narrative. Do it well, with structure, focus, rigour and thoroughness, and ALBA will thrive on the “Build it, and they will come” philosophy.

      People will not be led by the UK media, but, I hope, ALBA independence documentaries online, ALBA hosted discussion forums between experts, (something like Question Time should be), but stripped of waffle and rhetoric, and I further hope, a collection of Rev Stu style Wee Books which do exactly what the Wee Blue Book did in 2014.

      We combat the deluge of Unionist propaganda flooding Scotland with a deluge of our own. We wean Scotland’s electorate off their sugary diet of Sunny-Delight propaganda and sweeties, and we do it by the ALBA party giving them a three course balanced diet which satisfies their appetite and is stuffed full of proper nutrition.

    315. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT _

      Thanks. I probably won’t be there, but you never know.

      😉

    316. John McNab says:

      Ruby at 10.12pm

      “How would the UK Government know which parts of Glasgow are Muslim & which parts are Christian?”

      Is this question an admission, albeit implicit, that there is a system of residential apartheid being applied in Glasgow, based on the professed religion of its inhabitants? Is the city of my birth to go forward to the sunlit uplands of “independence” as a grey, dreich version of Beirut? Is “our Muslim community” to quote the increasingly deranged Sturgeon – FM for life – truly of such numbers that they are to be given a part of the city for their very own?

      Are none of you worried by this?

    317. jockmcx says:

      The charachter assassination attempt on Alex Salmond failed
      to assassinate his character…

      But what a brass neck for the characters who believed that pish…

      It’s what they do dumbells!

    318. John McNab says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      16 May, 2021 at 8:11 pm

      “If that was a YES Rally yesterday, the tanks would have been on the streets.”

      Behave yourself!

    319. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Wouldn’t it be quite ‘funny’ if this place continued to get much higher traffic than WGD et al even though it’s technically closed?

      😉

    320. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.
      It’ll be my first time out of Dundee, since The Glasgow march in January 2020.

    321. Ottomanboi says:

      Whatever became of the common cold & seasonal flu?
      https://off-guardian.org/2021/05/17/10-more-covid-skeptic-memes-to-get-you-through-the-day/
      They morphed into that neat BigPharma money earner «Covid-19».
      The Drug Dealing State.
      From inews.co.uk… March 22, 2021
      «Vaccines are the best way out of the pandemic and the Government has spent a lot of money to make sure the programme is up to scratch.
      Purchasing and manufacturing enough vaccines will cost nearly £12bn, according to the National Audit Office.
      In the Budget, Chancellor Rishi Sunak announced an extra £1.65bn to support the vaccine roll-out in England, and £50m to boost the UK’s vaccine testing capability»

    322. Alec Lomax says:

      John McNabb – another racist halfwit.

    323. wee monkey says:

      Alec Lomax says:
      17 May, 2021 at 10:54 am
      Quote:- “John McNabb – another racist halfwit.”

      Pot kettle —– now, fill in the last word..

      —-

      There is no permutation of SI which doesn’t end up in sado-austerity and Sturgeon knows this.

      She is not going to swap her current situation as Queen of the Cult and go headlong into an indy disaster and the chaos that would ensue.

      She has played a lot of the voters for fools. Or is it the other way round? snp1 alba2 ??

    324. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      17 May, 2021 at 10:39 am
      Wouldn’t it be quite ‘funny’ if this place continued to get much higher traffic than WGD et al even though it’s technically closed?
      😉

      Reply

      It would be a nice gesture if posters who have enjoyed Stu’s articles for the past 10 years now returned the favour and provided Stu with interesting/entertaining btl comments & links.

      Here’s a link from The Herald:

      https://archive.is/KCMiT

      “Lesley Riddoch: People power versus the law of the land, what will Sturgeon choose next time?”

      Headline interesting article suspect.

      Dawn raids at 9am?
      Refugees/Asylum seekers from India?

    325. Charles Hodgson says:

      All this guff about the “holy day of Eid”.
      It’s irrelevant if they are Sikh.

      Should the police refrain from arresting anyone on Eid? Maybe we should declare the day a free-for-all like ‘The Purge’.

      Theres a racist undertone to all this, the assumption that they are Muslim because of the colour of their skin.

      Yet, these shitbags would explode if we misgendered someone.

      The Home Office have every right to detain people to establish who they are, and whether they should ultimately be granted leave to remain. Legal procedures should be followed.

      Who knows what crimes they may have committed in their country of origin?
      The people of this country have a right to be protected, and it is the first duty of any Government to do so.

      But not here. We are better than that. Better than the English.

      Welcome to the world of the clueless SNP virtue signallers.

    326. Ruby says:

      John McNab says:
      Is “our Muslim community” to quote the increasingly deranged Sturgeon – FM for life – truly of such numbers that they are to be given a part of the city for their very own?

      Are none of you worried by this?

      Reply

      Muslim community, Protestant community, Catholic community not a good thing if these communities do not integrate and choose to live separately.

      If you live in a community where there is no reason to speak a language other than your mother tongue you could end up even after 10 years of living in an English speaking country requiring an interpreter.

      Living in separate communities will not help racism or bigotry.

      Where’s Liz? I might have some views on immigration.

    327. Stuart MacKay says:

      Charles Hodgson

      It was a remarkable display of ignorance. But then when have the facts been allowed to get in the way of a sudden outburst of virtue.

    328. Ruby says:

      Alec Lomax says:
      17 May, 2021 at 10:54 am
      John McNabb – another racist halfwit.

      Reply

      I reckon there are a lot of voters in Scotland who you would probably describe as ‘racist halfwits’.

      People who have serious doubts about immigration.

      What ‘She/Her’ has done with her talk about ‘our Muslim community’ & support for the Kenmure Street protest is to alienate all these ‘racist halfwits’ and help to ensure they vote NO.

      ‘She/Her’ is a halfwit!

      Any views on Lesley Riddocks question:

      “People power versus the law of the land, what will Sturgeon choose next time?

      https://archive.is/KCMiT

    329. wee monkey says:

      James Che. says:
      15 May, 2021 at 10:46 pm
      Quote:- “Tannadice boy, were in the same situation as you, I lost my home, and had a good few years of fight to get a house, had no where else to go, so became homeless,
      Now in a council house, my daughter trying to cope bringing up her daughter in a weird upside down back to front world were the rights and wrongs are just plain wrong,
      My son immigrated to New Zealand , has quickly achieved success whereas he failed here for all his long hours of work, he literally got an award for hardest worker for 3 years running at his place of employment, learned new skills with enthusiasm and is now boss of 18 other men.
      He is now married and I have four grandchildren over there,
      Had our country been fair and a good place to expand and grow, my grandchildren would have been born Scottish as it was a Scottish lassie he married,
      Our children are leaving in the droves, and as parents or people left behind we are becoming little more than statistics of the poor,
      You and you’re issues sound like very similar to ourselves, and I suppose like many others here.
      Don’t give up, old fashioned values are the only way to win, they fight the stupidity of this woke nonsense and global dislocated culture trying to emerge, hang on to your hat we’re in for one heck of a ride,
      Don’t see it as a battle, see it as a challenge for us ,
      It’s not so scary Once you realise the enemy on the other side of the hill is sht scared too. Internet hug to you and you’re missus.”

      Mirrors my childhood. Four decades ago.

      Now, both mine [females natural] have said the first chance they get they are out of Scotland.

      It breaks my heart; forty years of useless politicians skimming the population for their own gain..almost like some kind of clandestine clan system at work..vote for this colour because it’s yours, we told you so..

    330. Stuart MacKay says:

      Breeks,

      Absolutely agree. Get everybody talking and that not only side-steps all the roadblocks being thrown up but takes the debate out of the hands of the politicians. Alba can offer leadership and answers. Leave the control-freakery to the SNP.

    331. David says:

      It’s official! Unionist troll/Brigade 77 topic for today (to disrupt the comments on here) has moved on to racism and ‘3rd world’ immigration.
      John Main, susanXX, J.o.e, John McNab, and others, can all gtf.

    332. Dave Hansell says:

      Stuart,

      “It seems that the blogosphere is now settling into two camps: pro-SNP and pro-Alba. The pro-SNP side appears to be a little too coordinated in their output – Kenmure Street at the start of the weekend”

      Interesting logic. The SNP/SNPSG and it’s politicians do what politicians do – attempt to take over ownership of something which has occurred as a result of other people’s efforts – and suddenly anyone who has anything positive to say about Thursdays event is suddenly corralled into a pro-SNP/Sturgeon camp.

      Well thanks, but no thanks Stuart. It don’t work like that. Not going in that space you’ve corralled others into. The shortbread tin metaphor does not just apply in one unique monopolistic way and it’s simplistic and downright rude to push people into that tin without a by your leave to force some sort of convenient narrative which fails to acknowledge or even recognise the objective reality that the Kenmore Street event has a separate existence from the SNP or support for that Party.

      Perhaps youse could go the whole hog with this cavalier approach and send a report in to the LP Compliance Unit. I’m sure the second rate Tory B Team tribute act currently running what they’ve turned into a farcical shit show would welcome the opportunity to get rid of a few more of us from the foot blister squad?

      Its not helpful to undermine the very valid point made about complexity by immediately over simplifying those complex issues.

      The Government of whatever stripe certainly has a role to play on the matter of sectarianism. However, Government is not the only entity with a positive, or negative, role to play in that regard. The citizenry has a valid and important role also, one way or the other.

      Whatever effective or ineffective action any Government takes towards sectarianism it is not helped in making progress when too many consistently undermine such efforts by continuing to make excuses for sectarianism via the nothing to see here claim of it’s just a few football supporters getting over excited using whataboutary examples from elsewhere.

      Whilst at the same time pejoratively using terms such as “righteous” in order to paint a more negative picture of a peaceful event unfolding over eight hours in which no one got injured nor property actively attacked in some crude attempt at whataboutary which underplays one event whilst attempting to imply another was more unlawful or more morally and ethically suspect.

      Because what happened on Saturday had nothing to do with Rangers Football Club nor football. A simple search engine inquiry will reveal instances of members of the community in Glasgow who follow Rangers Football Club turning up to assist other members of the community in Glasgow who follow Celtic Football Club to help them remove sectarian graffiti written by sectarian members of the Glasgow and Scottish Community who just happen to use RFC as one convenient outlet for their bigotry towards others.

      A bigotry which does not stop at Catholics but which also extends to anyone they subjectively consider (a typical woke mob based approach) not to be part of the WATP gang. And many such targets of such scapegoating for all their troubles sectarianism include immigrants (as well as the concept of immigration) whether from Europe, the Middle East, Africa or Asia.

      The reported actions of Rangers supporters assisting fellow members of the Glasgow Community in the form of Celtic supporters to remove sectarian graffiti against Catholics is no different to the actions of people from the Glasgow Community who turned up at Kenmore Street last Thursday to deal with another aspect of that same sectarianism as manifested by the State’s equally hostile environment in this instance.

      A hostile environment which plays dog whistle to that same divide and rule sectarianism seen in Glasgow on Saturday which some people seem to be going well out of their way to portray as of the lesser concern compared to Thursday on Kenmore Street.

      One might almost wonder what general motivation is in play here? Whatever it is, we see it.

    333. Cenchos says:

      Pollokshields has the highest Muslim population percentage in Scotland. (27.8% in last census).

      Eid could cynically be reasoned by a Home Office pen-pusher to be a ‘good day’ to pick up a couple of Sikhs , as a good proportion of the population could be imagined to be have their attention focused on Eid, thus making flying in under the radar easier. .

    334. J.o.e says:

      RE: Lesley Riddocks article

      ‘But they are upholding Scotland’s settled will about the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers’

      To always paint immigrants as refugees and asylum seekers is so transparently dishonest im surprised that people still use it.

      Perhaps these characters are so bereft of real argument they are stuck on 3rd rate unrealistic emotive language?

      Reality check: there are indeed desperate people looking for shelter. But many are coming from more or less safe countries looking for the fruits afforded by our now crumbling society. I don’t necessarily blame them but to always frame them as desperate people fleeing war and persecution is flat out dishonesty.

      Really can’t be arsed with this. Its not just stupid – its utterly dishonest.

    335. J.o.e says:

      @David

      Why don’t you throw an argument into the ring and set us to rights rather than settling with a hysterical wee outburst?

    336. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: Saturday in Glasgow.

      Friends Of Wings Retweeted
      Jimmy McLean
      @jgmclean2708
      Starting to think we shouldn’t have another divisive football season for a generation.
      12:30 am · 16 May 2021

    337. Ruby says:

      David says:
      17 May, 2021 at 12:10 pm
      It’s official! Unionist troll/Brigade 77 topic for today (to disrupt the comments on here) has moved on to racism and ‘3rd world’ immigration.
      John Main, susanXX, J.o.e, John McNab, and others, can all gtf.

      Reply
      I thought the topic of this thread was

      “racism and ‘3rd world’ immigration”

    338. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dave Hansell

      My comment on the blogosphere was about how the top-tier bloggers are becoming overtly pro-SNP or pro-Alba and that we are poorly served by such a split as all that happens is simple mudslinging. Not sure how sectarianism gets factored into that.

    339. PacMan says:

      Ruby says: 16 May, 2021 at 9:42 pm

      PacMan says:
      16 May, 2021 at 8:36 pm
      It’s best to ignore PayPal Kavanaghs site.

      Reply
      No!
      His behaviour & that of his supporters is v. interesting.

      Not sure about that.

      WGD is now just a SNP site where independence is incidental much like New Labour went through the motions of singing the Red Flag at party conferences. It is also a personal fundraiser for PayPaul.

      Nothing to see there so pretty irreverent as far as I’m concerned.

    340. Ruby says:

      I think we might have the same problems with immigration as we have with transgender issues.

      People are self-identifying as asylum seekers & refugees when they are neither.

      If the current process of gender recognition is too harrowing for trans people then is there any reason to put immigrants through an even more harrowing process?

      Is there any reason for ‘She/Her’ not to introduce self-id for immigrants in an independent Scotland? 🙂

    341. boris says:

      https://caltonjock.com/2021/05/17/another-act-of-attrition-the-jackboot-of-the-uk-supreme-court-brings-scotland-to-heel/

      The Lords said there was no need for a “Supreme Court” and they were also discontented about a lack of consultation of the proposed changes to remove the Law Lords from the upper house to a new court and the absence of public debate. They also gave warning that the legislation, as drafted threatened the independence of Scots law which was guaranteed in perpetuity by the, “Claim of Right.”

    342. Ottomanboi says:

      The Gay Vikings.
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/19307763.shetland-plans-hold-first-lgbt-pride-festival-summer-2022/
      Why? Hví?
      Last resort of a government decimated local tourist industry?

    343. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Breeks says:
      “I’m not that fussy about marches, or polls, or members, or manifestos, or leaders. Frankly it feels like it saps our strength rather than bolsters it. It feels static and becoming less effective. I don’t mean we should stop, because marching IS great for morale, but it’s not going to “win” if that makes sense. We need “more”. More reach. More persuasion. … More seduction.”
      ———————
      I agree with most of the post but I would not rule out the strength of marches for ALBA.

      There are usually many thousands of marchers but also many thousands more watching them go by, as well as “MSM” reports and importantly the indy internet.

      ALBA should be present with ALBA flags, placards, banners, all proclaiming independence no ifs and buts, protection of Womens Rights and Freedom of Speech. Leaflets distributed to the spectators. It’s a visual thing.

      MPs and Councillors must also be present and marching.

      ALBA needs to be seen and heard because you won’t get many opportunities to reach out to people willing to listen.

      If SNP folk are there, ask them why Nicla isn’t there marching from the front… 🙂

    344. David says:

      No, Ruby, the topic of this thread is people power in Scotland, used successfully in defiance of UK Government’s ‘hostile environment’ policy and Priti Patel’s goon squad.
      When politicians fail us, people power will save us.

    345. Dave Hansell says:

      Stuart,

      Perhaps this might not the memory?:

      “observation was more about the righteous refugees and the villainous football supporters and that in a different set of circumstances the response from the Scottish government and allied media would be entirely reversed.

      The country would be so much better off if instead of grandstanding the government actually tried to solve the festering wound that sectarianism represents.

      Sorry for not addressing your questions – it’s way too big a topic to deal with. The only real enmity here is between clubs and nothing else, though the clashes between Lisbon and Porto supporters tend to a bit more violent.”

    346. Dave Hansell says:

      Jog the memory

    347. David says:

      “J.o.e” is a troll using racism as a method to disrupt the conversation here, and as such he/she/they can ram it.

    348. John McNab says:

      Alec Lomax at 10.54am

      Alec, it’s one ‘b’ in the surname. However, please, in the spirit of ‘civic and joyous’ Scottish nationalism, please elaborate on your description of me as a “racist halfwit.” Please cite referenced examples and publish the qualifications in your possession that allow you to make such a judgment.

      Thanks awfully, and lots of love, John x.

    349. John McNab says:

      David/Dave Somerville:

      It’s quite apparent that trying to post online comments with two separate noms-de-plume is causing you some confusion. Just pick one online identity and stick to it. Nobody here will think any less of you than they already do…

    350. Breeks says:

      PacMan says:
      17 May, 2021 at 12:32 pm

      WGD is now just a SNP site where independence is incidental…

      They also have the problem lying ahead of them that whenever they do get around to relighting the fire under the Indy kettle, that accusations of steaming rank hypocrisy are going to start flying, and every time their gums flap about a majority, mandate, or getting Referendum legislation through Holyrood, they’re gonna be confronted at every turn with the monumental stupidity of a million squandered List votes and the ALBA support that might have been there, if only the SNP hadn’t cocked it’s leg to piss all over them.

      Same awaits the SNP if they talking up AUOB marches they’ve snubbed.

      Same awaits the SNP launching fund raising events after the Indy fund they’ve abused.

      Same awaits them discussing Brexit consequences, when for a critical 18 month period surrounding Brexit, the SNP NEC wasn’t even discussing Independence.

      There are actually quite a few more awkward and ugly chickens coming home to roost.

      It’s already beginning with Kavanagh himself saying the SNP is finished if it doesn’t deliver IndyRef2… the very thing he’s been enthusiastically castigating others for daring to say. Anybody pointing out the hypocrisy is gonna be banned… which doesn’t really leave them much to talk about except whether Sturgeon polishes her halo with the same tin of Brasso she uses on her neck.

      But fk ‘em. Let them own it. I wouldn’t waste your time even visiting. You will learn nothing, and I’m pretty sure the Revolution won’t be televised on WGD. In fact, I rather suspect they’ll be the last to know.

    351. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dave Hansell

      Yes, it does. And?

    352. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (1.17) –

      WGD will still be essential reading for those who need someone to explain why Michael Gove isn’t a very nice man.

    353. Cenchos says:

      The Scotland correspondent of soon-to-begin-broadcasting GB News is David Donaldson. Neil Oliver is also involved in the channel. Oh joy.

    354. Don says:

      Breeks 15th May 2021 at 1:17 pm

      “Same awaits the SNP launching fund raising events after the Indy fund they’ve abused.

      Same awaits them discussing Brexit consequences, when for a critical 18 month period surrounding Brexit, the SNP NEC wasn’t even discussing Independence.

      There are actually quite a few more awkward and ugly chickens coming home to roost.

      It’s already beginning with Kavanagh himself saying the SNP is finished if it doesn’t deliver IndyRef2… the very thing he’s been enthusiastically castigating others for daring to say. Anybody pointing out the hypocrisy is gonna be banned… which doesn’t really leave them much to talk about except whether Sturgeon polishes her halo with the same tin of Brasso she uses on her neck.

      But fk ‘em. Let them own it. I wouldn’t waste your time even visiting. You will learn nothing, and I’m pretty sure the Revolution won’t be televised on WGD. In fact, I rather suspect they’ll be the last to know.”

      This seems to be one of the Uglier Chickens to ignore though i don’t understand it myself https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/

    355. James Che. says:

      Stuart mackay, the yes grassroots movement was a celebration of Scots coming together for Scotland, working together for a better future for the people whom live in Scotland and it was joyous to behold,
      I would be be overwhelmed with happiness to see that happen again, because it was the people whom worked as one, as sovereign Scots,
      Since then There has been a deliberate concerted effort by the likes of bj, gove Cameron, from the snp, labourites and tories along with employed instigators to create antagonism on the Scottish blog sites, every thing from football to immigration, from sturgeon v Salmond, to Scots hate English, it’s all been deliberately pushed through.
      What it intended to achieve was the for yes movement split. to start disagreeing amongst themselves, to cause splits and divides, to sicking others with hateful derogatory language, to prevent them coming together, to drive a wedge between the those of us still hanging on,
      A good many no longer commenting
      , and others are leaving not just the blog sites but the country,
      Their aim was to kill the natural enthusiasm of Scottish people becoming one strengthening force, and in a way the covid issues has been used lately as a further divider,
      We can see the tail end of those instigators on here still, they are attempting to be the final push towards discimmation of the yes movement, with the help of strange laws being passed and with which none in the Scottish government mps objecting to loudly or speaking out against these draconian bills.
      To add to all this, I can see the bigger picture, While many Scots are leaving their homelands, and the Scottish government seems to be happy about it, they are also ready to use immigration as a weapon to dilute the Scots and homegrown yes movement,
      IF the Scottish government cared at all with regards to immigrants they would provide a better infrastructure and Heath services a better foundation to be ready to receive extra people from abroad, but instead we see the country of Scotland slipping into a totalitarian state,
      There has been a concerted coverall effort and assault from all angles to squash us into oblivion before they lose control.
      Those, yes hundred remaining, will fight for Scotland’s independence.
      We are sovereign, we are a country, and it’s up to us.

    356. Don says:

      John Main 16 May, 2021 at 8:36 pm

      “It will be a frosty day in hell before anybody can convince me that the cause of Scottish Independence is advanced in any way by importing new voters to influence the next referendum. And I believe this is true whether these new voters come from Austria or Angola.
      As other posters have pointed out, not one of the struggling Scots already here is helped to get a job, a home, or a hospital bed when the competition for these scarce resources is made even more ferocious.
      But the lunacy that really gets me. There is an absolute tsunami of unemployment heading our way as advancing tech and automation consigns entire categories of employment to the dustbin of history. Just how, exactly, do the pro-immigration posters believe increasing immigration can be made to work with radically decreasing employment?
      Generous, free benefits for all? You can have generous benefits, or you can have open borders. But you can’t have both. The two are mutually exclusive.”

      Wow a rare poster here with an understanding of economics rather than being just hell bent on invented conspiracy theories, Bravo.

      The problem we have John is already with people living much longer pensions and benefits are already being harder to fund and thats even before those tech driven job losses hit us. It’s not a good omen and all the anger on immigration will be proven to be an issue when people themselves families start to lose their own jobs

    357. Willie says:

      WGD for me is an acronym for We Gather Dough because that is exactly what it is.

      Buy me a house because I deserve a wee cottage was the call. Not a request to social services to secure a ground floor flat suited to Paul’s needs after his illness. No, it was a clarion call for cash to buy a ‘ wee cottage’

      Nothing wrong for calling for charity to buy you a property. Everyone should be entitled to that. A universal right. And thankfully our Paul was fortunate enough to put the bowl round in a financial appeal.

      But I wish not to unfairly criticise. Hopefully putting the bowl round enabled him to buy his ‘ wee cottage ‘ and hopefully the deficits from his illness have only been temporary with him getting his health back.

      As for fair criticism. I wouldn’t go near his blog. He blocked me a year or so back after making some very objective and well structured comments which contained not a scintilla of hostile or derogatory content.

      That he blocked me for no valid reason other than to censor well made, well presented comment that didn’t suit his agenda, it became crystal clear to me how the guy operates.

      We Gather Dough – he did after taking ill put the dog down. Put to sleep might be the more anodyne expression but the same decision. The dug however may have preferred the move to the wee cottage. Good home wanted ………but for who?

    358. Stuart MacKay says:

      James Che

      Not sure all the division can be laid at the feet of the powers that be. Personally I think twitter has a lot to answer for but sure as hell the politicians took advantage of the climate of division to drive home some more. Division is the whole modus operandi of the woke — ooops, there I go sowing more divison.

      Anyways, if you look at the long term effects of lock-down then I think the time is ripe for a pulse of optimism in people’s lives. If we don’t take control of our destiny then you can be sure someone will.

      Breeks hit the spot exactly. The time has come to ignore the SNP. They’ve nothing to offer other than sermons on how sinful and bigoted we all all – the new Calvinists. I want a country where everyone who wants to be a Scot can be. It’s not a nationality or ethnicity, but a state of mind. The Enlightenment built the western world. We have what it takes. Time to throw out all the naysayers and people telling us what we can and can’t do and build a country we can be proud of.

    359. Freya says:

      Tomorrow Lisa could be facing expulsion for simply talking about biological facts, what is happening to Scotland? with Brexit we have also lost freedom of speech in this nation?

      As it turns out, Lisa’s case is only one of 20 already this year of students being silenced by the radical trans agenda.
      Once lockdown is over and it is 100% safe to contact authorities to organise a march in favour of women’s rights, is there any organisation I can contact to volunteer my time/help to do something about all this madness?

      https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/2228155/abertay-student-faces-expulsion-in-row-over-women-have-vaginas-comment/

    360. Stuart MacKay says:

      Don @1:33pm

      So much certainty in so few words with percentages accurate to one decimal point and in blog post too. The authors’ talents are clearly wasted at the London School of Economics.

      What’s this with the “Independence, Brexit, UK Common Market, High Border Cost” scenario? Sorry guv, once we’re free, we’re not sticking around. We’ll happily sell you water, oil, electricity, food and drink at market rates or you can let the French prop up your crowded, thirsty country.

      The comments are worth a read. So much effort being put into to save a country from economic disaster. “Please, please won’t somebody save those Scots from themselves.” Methinks they doth protest too much.

      Project Fear – the sequel is apparently alive and well.

    361. Don says:

      Stuart MacKay 17 May, 2021 at 2:38 pm
      “So much certainty in so few words with percentages accurate to one decimal point and in blog post too. The authors’ talents are clearly wasted at the London School of Economics.

      What’s this with the “Independence, Brexit, UK Common Market, High Border Cost” scenario? Sorry guv, once we’re free, we’re not sticking around. We’ll happily sell you water, oil, electricity, food and drink at market rates or you can let the French prop up your crowded, thirsty country.

      The comments are worth a read. So much effort being put into to save a country from economic disaster. “Please, please won’t somebody save those Scots from themselves.” Methinks they doth protest too much.”

      But the SNP’s Mike Russell actually spent time praising the LSE for their Brexit Report and yet doesn’t like that one https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1393012/SNP-Brexit-latest-news-Holyrood-clash-Scottish-independence-report-LSE-Mike-Russell-vn

    362. James Che. says:

      Why shouldn’t the Scots protest?
      Would you not if it was you’re home?

    363. Pixywine says:

      To what extent do the charity NGO ” Common Purpose” influence Scottish politicians and the Courts?

    364. Pixywine says:

      Freya. Holyrood passed hate crime legislation which effectively outlaws freedom of speech. Holyrood is in Edinburgh not London.

    365. Stoker says:

      Shug says on 15 May, 2021 at 1:44 pm

      “Instead of closing why not relaunch as Wings Over Alba?”

      Absolutely love that idea! And just think what a statement that would make. If you do finally decide to stick with it, Stuart, please consider this brilliant way of announcing your continued presence whilst putting a lot of noses out of joint. LOL! 🙂
      ________

      And for anyone who hasn’t seen it, here’s the most recent rehash of BritNat 2014 tactics. https://archive.is/JPOlj

      Look at the list of “160” names, not all names are businesses, some names are very well kent ‘No’ campaigners such as ‘Baroness Nosheena Mobarik CBE’. Then there’s the same name appearing more than once and so on and so forth. This “list” is a joke we could spend all day picking fault with. Desperation doesn’t even begin to cut it.

    366. Pixywine says:

      Ottomanboiy. Upheliarse in Orkny this year. Ha.

    367. Don says:

      @Stuart MacKay 17 May, 2021 at 2:38 pm

      “Sorry guv, once we’re free, we’re not sticking around. We’ll happily sell you water, oil, electricity, food and drink at market rates or you can let the French prop up your crowded, thirsty country”

      We don’t sell Water right now to England so why would we after Indy when they already have the Lake District much closer than Scotland ????? https://www.robedwards.com/2012/03/selling-water-to-england-is-a-pipe-dream-say-experts.html#:~:text=Alex%20Salmond%27s%20plan%20to%20sell,impractical%2C%20polluting%20and%20horrendously%20expensive.

      Oil gets Sold to the International Oil Market to whoever bids the most for it. You do understnd we already get 100% full Georgraphical Oil Revenues anyway ?

      Electricity already gets sold to the Nationalist Grid who sell it onwards to retail electrictiy depending on demand , Scot Gov only gets Tax Revenues on profits (which we already get) There are also Interconnectors from the National Grid to France and to the Netherlands , the RUK doesn’t depend on us for leccy.

      “let the French prop up your crowded, thirsty country” Scotland would be a lot more crowded itself with an extra 500k immigrants pushing young Scots out of the Housing market by forcing up Housing prices from the rising demand that mass immigration would cause.
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/independent-scotland-would-need-500-000-immigrants-balance-workers-and-pensioners-says-treasury-9430082.html

    368. Pixywine says:

      Who the Hell is Lesley Riddoch to decide what ” Scotlands settled will” is? She can fuck all the way off. Let’s have genuinely open, honest and most importantky a FREE debate on immigration, climate change, Globalism everything in fact because from what I see and experience most of the big issues of today are predicated on bullshit covid 19 being chief among them. C19 is a Trojan Horse policy being used to slip in the Green Agenda. We won’t like having to give up international air travelling. We won’t like giving up our cars. We won’t like the unemployment when carbon burning industries are closed down with nothing to replace lost jobs. The Government might erect enough windmills for us all to tilt at.
      No oil and gas no electricity. No electricity no civilization.

    369. wee monkey says:

      Ruby says:
      17 May, 2021 at 12:35 pm
      Quote:- “I think we might have the same problems with immigration as we have with transgender issues.

      People are self-identifying as asylum seekers & refugees when they are neither.

      If the current process of gender recognition is too harrowing for trans people then is there any reason to put immigrants through an even more harrowing process?

      Is there any reason for ‘She/Her’ not to introduce self-id for immigrants in an independent Scotland? ?”

      Ruby, the issue is transparency.

      When you have 20-30 year old men claiming to be 15 there is definitely something wrong with the system when they waltz right in.

      There is also a problem with the system when “you” can no longer report or publish information about this.

    370. Don says:

      Willie 17 May, 2021 at 2:11 pm

      “WGD for me is an acronym for We Gather Dough because that is exactly what it is.
      Buy me a house because I deserve a wee cottage was the call. Not a request to social services to secure a ground floor flat suited to Paul’s needs after his illness. No, it was a clarion call for cash to buy a ‘ wee cottage’
      Nothing wrong for calling for charity to buy you a property. Everyone should be entitled to that. A universal right. And thankfully our Paul was fortunate enough to put the bowl round in a financial appeal.
      But I wish not to unfairly criticise. Hopefully putting the bowl round enabled him to buy his ‘ wee cottage ‘ and hopefully the deficits from his illness have only been temporary with him getting his health back.
      As for fair criticism. I wouldn’t go near his blog. He blocked me a year or so back after making some very objective and well structured comments which contained not a scintilla of hostile or derogatory content.
      That he blocked me for no valid reason other than to censor well made, well presented comment that didn’t suit his agenda, it became crystal clear to me how the guy operates.
      We Gather Dough – he did after taking ill put the dog down. Put to sleep might be the more anodyne expression but the same decision. The dug however may have preferred the move to the wee cottage. Good home wanted ………but for who?”

      He is nothing but a Grifter with an adoring fan club, there is no IQ test required to be a member.

    371. J.o.e says:

      @David

      My personal pronouns are ‘it’ and ‘that’ pls. Thx.

    372. Breeks says:

      Don says:
      17 May, 2021 at 1:33 pm

      This seems to be one of the Uglier Chickens to ignore though i don’t understand it myself https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/02/04/indyref2-scottish-independence-would-be-2-3-times-more-costly-than-that-of-brexit-and-rejoining-the-eu-wouldnt-make-up-the-difference/

      I’ll see your LSE article saying Independence will be terrible, with this LSE article saying Independence will be fine… 😉

      http://web.archive.org/web/20210330073808/https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/

    373. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Stuart MacKay at 2:15 pm

      You typed,

      “I want a country where everyone who wants to be a Scot can be. It’s not a nationality or ethnicity, but a state of mind. The Enlightenment built the western world. We have what it takes. Time to throw out all the naysayers and people telling us what we can and can’t do and build a country we can be proud of.”

      This is one of the badges Pete and I launched in 2015. The edge of the badge is actually just outside the text. The rest of the space is what goes round the edge and between the front of the badge and the back with the pin.

      https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/Being%20Scottish-screen.jpg

    374. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Freya at 2:18 pm.

      You linked to
      “thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/2228155/abertay-student-faces-expulsion-in-row-over-women-have-vaginas-comment/”

      I posted an archived link to that story this morning at 7:14 am.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/hostile-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-2661290

      Here’s the archived link:-
      https://archive.is/bRX9A

    375. David says:

      Don at 3:05pm lies that “we already get 100% full Geographical Oil Revenues anyway”.
      Don is a troll, a lying troll.

      Hey pal, if Scotland actually got 100% full Geographical Oil Revenues, we would be as rich as Norway. But we’re not.

    376. Dave Hansell says:

      Stuart,

      And, again as a reminder it was yourself who posted the following question:

      ” Not sure how sectarianism gets factored into that.”

      And there was I thinking my episodes of senior moments were problematic. Just goes to show eh? There’s always someone else worse off than yourself.

    377. Argentocoxos says:

      God I love this site & I’m devastated to see it go, I just wish I’d latched on to it before early 2020. I was aware of it but I thought it was just another indy cheerleading site, how wrong I was.

      To the Rev, many thanks for all you’ve done especially the last year or so & may the force be with you in whatever you choose to do. Like many others who’ve said, I think that this site should be documented for posterity & historical value, I’m an auld luddite & the tech is beyond me so someone please step up.

      I’m hoping that upcoming events & Black Swans make this decision to close the blog a wise tactical retreat.

      Don’t let the bastards grind you down!†

    378. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Argentocoxos.

      The archive of Wings Over Scotland:-

      https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://wingsoverscotland.com

      From the summer of 2012 onwards.

      Bookmark that link and you can browse all the stuff you’ve missed.

    379. Ottomanboi says:

      Being Scottish is a state of mind…..we are told.
      Nationality and ethnicity are actual and are historic and cultural facts.
      A state of mind is ephemeral or may even be altered by a little therapy.
      Why are some Scots so reluctant to be nationalist?
      All very Sturgeon.
      I smell woke.

    380. David says:

      “I don’t know who the English taxpayer is subsidising, but it certainly isn’t Scotland.” Wise words from Jams O’Donnell:

      “England doesn’t pay for Scotland.
      With 8.2% of the UK population, we supply 9.6% of the revenue excluding oil/mineral wealth etc, and receive 9.3% of the funding back with our own money, giving Westminster a net subsidy from Scotland before including oil etc.
      Per head of population Scotland exports more than twice what England does.

      We have 96% of the UK’s crude oil production, where all the revenue goes to London/Westminster; we have 60% of the gas reserves; 62% of seafood landings; 90% of the UK’s freshwater; and 40% of UK wind wave and solar energy production.

      All with 8.2% of the population.”

    381. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dave Hansell

      I think you’re getting wires crossed. My lament about blogs dividing into pro-SNP and pro-Alba camps and my comment about the Scottish Government praising law-breaking that they like have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

      I usually find your comments interesting and worth reading. Sorry to see you stooping to attack the player and not the ball.

    382. Freya says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      17 May, 2021 at 4:17 pm
      Hi Freya at 2:18 pm.

      You linked to
      “thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/2228155/abertay-student-faces-expulsion-in-row-over-women-have-vaginas-comment/”

      I posted an archived link to that story this morning at 7:14 am.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/hostile-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-2661290

      Here’s the archived link:-
      https://archive.is/bRX9A

      Thank you, Brian; I had not seen this. What can be done about this situation? This is going downhill and so fast.

      We are allowing so many things to happen: the man who now runs the refugee centre, Eilidh Martin and this person’s disturbing messages on children, now this silencing of freedom of speech on university students, the very same institution where freedom of speech should be protected. I just feel that if we don’t ‘wake up’ soon and complain about this cancel culture they’re creating, it will be too late by the time we do it.

      Thanks goodness for people like Joanna Cherry and Lady Faulkner, and the many men who are supporting us as well.

    383. Stuart MacKay says:

      Don

      Economics is not called the dismal science for nothing. It’s just politics with a bit of arithmetic thrown in in an attempt to try and make it look respectable.

      Nobody really knows the amount of money that flows back and fore which is why there’s so much controversy over the likes of GERS, etc.

      Apparently so many people are rushing to affirm the “too wee, too poor, too stupid” mantra. What on earth are they trying to stop/hide ?

    384. Stuart MacKay says:

      Brian Doonthetoon

      Nice design – not seen if before but then again maybe I did and the phrase stuck.

    385. Ruby says:

      David says:
      17 May, 2021 at 4:42 pm
      “I don’t know who the English taxpayer is subsidising, but it certainly isn’t Scotland.” Wise words from Jams O’Donnell:

      Reply

      Hang on a minute David!

      You said earlier

      “No, Ruby, the topic of this thread is people power in Scotland, used successfully in defiance of UK Government’s ‘hostile environment’ policy and Priti Patel’s goon squad.”

      Are you trying to disrupt this thread with posts about the English taxpayer? 🙂

    386. Alec Lomax says:

      Ottomanboi, it would helpful if those going on about indigenous Scots and ethnicity had a clue about Scottish history and culture.
      After all, the owner of this site is hostile to the promulgation and teaching of Gaelic.

    387. Ruby says:

      Freya says:
      Thank you, Brian; I had not seen this. What can be done about this situation? This is going downhill and so fast.

      Reply

      Very interesting question!

      Wings has been covering this issue for quite a long time.

      Women seem to be asleep! Either that or they have been hypnotised into voting for it.

    388. Ruby says:

      Ooops sorry I should have said people who were born with a vagina.

      I’m slow at picking up the ‘correct speak’

    389. James Che. says:

      Pixywine.
      The problems and scenarios you speak of are indeed happening world wide, the [build back better] mantra coming from all the world leaders mouths does not explain the destruction that has to happen first, to a way of life for the normal everyday citizens living all around the world.
      You have to knock something down or tear it apart before you can build back better,
      And that is why no one is thriving in any western society, for those whom are still wealthy, this realisation is yet to take affect, the poor will feel the affects first, then the middle class, and finally a few at the top.
      But never those pushing the “build back better” agenda. They will ensure their finances improve and are protected, and their hands are the ones controlling the issues.
      The change that is supposed to take place with capitalism around the world is not for the benifit of you or I .
      As far as I can see, even with covid, millions of ordinary citizen were in lockdown across the world, but the rich and powerful members of governments kept being called out for breaking covid rules. But MSM did not call them out,( it was us) .
      From Prince Charles coming to Scotland to Cummings testing his eyesight , to leaders in America going to the gym or hairdressers, while citizens were not allowed too. and even our Westminster leader BJ not alway socially distancing, handshakes willy nilly, biking seven miles away from home,
      To those whom took flights to secret holiday destinations.
      It must have been very nice for them carousing around the countryside with no riff raff minions free roaming or let out of their houses.
      Even the terminology lockdown equate = to locked up. Prisons without bars.
      Vacchines will free us all ,now equals = one vaccine is not enough.
      Which now equals two vaccines
      .which now equals vaccines for new varieties,
      beginning to equal vaccine passports.
      Leading to those in society whom can’t take the vaccines for other heath reasons being ostracised
      .and restricted.
      Will you have to carry a yellow card or perhaps be branded if you do not have a vaccine .
      Or will that part of society be permanently locked up = in lockdown,
      Did the Germans at one time in history not decide whom had the right to be free, and who had validaty to go around free in society, wild other groups like the disabled, were not,
      I would like to see planes stop polluting the air we breath and be banned,
      As to climate change, where do we begin,
      I would like to see plastic stopped being made by big manufacturers taking in massive profits be banned ,
      I would like to eat food without chemicals sprayed all over them by profit making big companies be banned,
      I would like the quarrying and destruction of large areas of nature for metals used to make wind turbines and solar panels be banned.
      I would like to see nuclear weapons stopped being made and banned,
      I would like to see all cars, including chauffeur driven cars banned.
      I would like to see the killing of our natural wildlife become a prison sentence and banned,
      I would like the false rewilding programmes to be made illegal and banned.
      The point here is that none of these things will ever become illegal or banned, because the global industrialist would immediately lose finances and control over the populations, if they were genuine about climate change the biggest offenders would be their target,
      But it is the ordinary citizens who’s shoulders are already heavy with burdens, restrictions and taxes that are paying the price for climate change,
      We do not own these large companies that are destroying our planet, or travel around the world in the way they do.we do not decide which climate abusers get a free pass and licenses from our governments.
      They are running and ruining countries all over the world for their profit and personal gain.
      I personally have problaby financed the planting of more trees in my lifetime than BJ has ever done without using public money.

    390. Captain Yossarian says:

      It’s great to see this site continues to thrive dispite Stu only calling-in now and again.

    391. Stephen says:

      Ottomanboi
      Scottish ethnicity is actual
      /
      David Hume would have agreed with you.
      Of national characters
      It is cringeworthy to read though

    392. Ruby says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/Being%20Scottish-screen.jpg

      Reply

      Am I correct in thinking the quote ‘Being Scottish is a State of Mind’ is from the book
      ‘How the Scots Invented the Modern World’ by Arthur Herman
      https://tinyurl.com/2ch2h44y

      “Who formed the first literate society? Who invented our modern ideas of democracy and free market capitalism? The Scots. As historian and author Arthur Herman reveals, in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries Scotland made crucial contributions to science, philosophy, literature, education, medicine, commerce, and politics–contributions that have formed and nurtured the modern West ever since.’

      Unionists response to the above is always ‘That is because Scotland was part of the Union.

    393. Ruby says:

      wee monkey says:

      Ruby, the issue is transparency.

      When you have 20-30 year old men claiming to be 15 there is definitely something wrong with the system when they waltz right in.

      There is also a problem with the system when “you” can no longer report or publish information about this.

      Reply

      🙂

      They might as well just have self-id for all immigrants.

      Especially when Macron decides to terminate the ‘Le Touguet Agreement’

    394. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ruby at 5:31 pm.

      You suggested,
      “Am I correct in thinking the quote ‘Being Scottish is a State of Mind’ is from the book
      ‘How the Scots Invented the Modern World’ by Arthur Herman
      https://tinyurl.com/2ch2h44y

      You could be right. I have that book and have read it twice. I was gifted it by a Dundonian in Canada. Maybe stuck in the canyons of my mind.

    395. Ottomanboi says:

      Alec Lomax 5:02
      From its origins Scotland is a culturally many layered society. The place names are indicative of that. As I understand it the native education system hardly touches on the ancient cultural diversity.
      Even self-identifying nationalists may be ignorant of these multi-cultural foundations.
      The SNP’s pedestrian bread and butter politics has not been helpful in that respect.
      Unchain the imagination.

    396. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ruby.

      The reference…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hcZ4s9cvpw

    397. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/54ecsmce

      Just been reading more about ‘How the Scots invented the Modern World

      “The term used to describe them was rednecks, a Scots border term meaning Presbyterians. Another was cracker, from the Scots word craik for “talk,” meaning a loud talker or braggart. Both words became permanent parts of the American language, and a permanent part of the identity of the Deep South the Ulster Scots created.”

      Fascinating!

      Had to Google cracker:
      Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a racial epithet directed towards white people, used especially with regard to poor rural whites in the Southern United States.

    398. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      OK, seeing as this thread is ‘free-flowing’, I will interject some Scottish musical history.

      From the following link,
      “The Relief of Orléans
      Joan was led into the besieged city of Orléans on April 28th, 1429, to the celebratory skirl of the Scottish pipes. The tune played for her was “Hey Tuttie Taiti”. The same tune that had marched Robert the Bruce into battle at Bannockburn a century before. The same tune that Robert Burns would set to his poem “Scots Wha Hae” centuries later.”

      http://www.maidofheaven.com/joanofarc_scots_guards.asp

      Following on,
      “The tune to “Hey Tuttie Tatie” has been used as the basis for several other songs, with new lyrics being added. These include “Scots Wha Hae” (1793), “Fill Up Your Bumpers High” (1718) and “Bridekirk’s Hunting”. The tune was also used in the concert overture Rob Roy by Hector Berlioz, and the Scottish Fantasy by Max Bruch.”
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Tuttie_Tatie

      Then,
      “According to tradition, the same theme was played in 1429 by the Franco-Scots army at the Siege of Orleans in front of Jeanne d’Arc. The song, called “Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce” in France, belongs to the traditional list of military music, and commemorates the long-lasting Auld alliance between France and Scotland. As for the Battle of Bannockburn, the theme really played was probably a traditional Scottish theme such as “Hey Tuttie Tatie”.”
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_Wha_Hae

      And finally, probably the most emotional version on YouTube. I was introduced to this around August/September 2014, when “somebody” posted a link on WOS.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WulAWn_N_O0

    399. Ruby says:

      I’m miles off topic now. I’ll be getting told off. I just find the following fascinating.

      https://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/rednecks/rednecks.html
      HILLBILLY (Hillbillies)

      The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled “Scots-Irish”) settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690.

      Supporters of King William were known as “Orangemen” and “Billy Boys” and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as “hillbillies”. It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, “Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!” and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, “Marching Through Georgia”.

    400. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Just found a newish version of “Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce” on Youtube.

      This is one of the comments below it:-

      “Half Pint Hero
      9 months ago
      I should add how amazing it is that the French and other Europeans remember this tune but you never hear it in Scotland.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ0VKYjvZ5M

    401. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yi’ken, what’s on Youtube is showing just how much of Scottish history is neglected – IN SCOTLAND!

      A Scottish tune that is known all over Europe is almost unknown in Scotland.

      Just found another version. I guess this is a Spanish upload, or maybe Italian – but Eh’m no’ a linguistic expert.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HSOvZUtwYE

    402. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yi’ken, what’s on Youtube is showing just how much of Scottish culture is being promoted by “furriners” to our shame.

      To change things completely, this is German heavy metal band “Grave Digger” with their track “The Bruce”. It was on their album ” “Tunes of War” (1996).

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUk5zd3PXc

    403. Don says:

      Ruby 17 May, 2021 at 5:01 pm

      “Are you trying to disrupt this thread with posts about the English taxpayer? ?”

      Surely trying to understand your own countries economics should be a priority for you ? How many years have you not understood this ?
      Scotland raised £65.9Bn but spent £81Bn https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-gers-2019-20/

    404. Don says:

      @ Republicofscotland 16 May, 2021 at 10:33 am
      “Sturgeon broke the ministerial code many times over but it didn’t seem to bother you then. You are a hypocrite.”

      “Pray tell Tannadice boy where exactly did you get that information fromv?”

      LoL 🙂 https://wingsoverscotland.com/this-is-what-a-liar-looks-like/ and https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-first-minister-is-a-liar/

    405. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Don

      Read carefully – I shall type this only once:

      GERS are total pish, made-up statistics, produced by the Treasury with the sole purpose of making Scotland look bad. They bear no relationship to what is actually happening.

    406. Republicofscotland says:

      The SNP has rejected the idea of a coalition government with the Greens.

    407. Republicofscotland says:

      Don @7.29pm.

      WTF are you on about, I’ve wasted five minutes of my life looking over that thread for what?

      None of my comments are supportive of Sturgeon the thread, so get to the point FFS!.

    408. James Che. says:

      Breeks.
      So much of what you said this morning regarding alba is correct and common sense, it’s important that alba is new politics, and does not copy cat old politics and parties in the way they think and operate.
      I don’t often disagree with you’re senable approach.
      However there one area that I have a tendency to disagree, and that is to smother the new politics with D@m experts,
      There falling out the ears of the Scottish government, that’s part of the problem, listening to many others.
      Experts are so far down their own rabbit hole they are miles away from the ordinary people, the decisions taken by any government from so called experts is often plain stupid and they often do not believe what they say, or follow it.
      Dominic Cummings is a good example of this, so are the many experts whom said Brexit would be easy, as Britain held all the cards.
      Which experts decided a hate crime bill would be a good idea, or decided transgender issues that damaged other people’s rights would be a good idea, someone gave the Scottish goverment their advice, it certainly was not the average person on the street whom are the most affected,
      Politicians and experts seldom consult with the population. And that is the way of old politics, where the two shall never meet or be in accord.
      Another good example that experts and politicians mulled over, discussed amongst themselves without consultating the people was The Treaty of the Union,
      Politics has to change, experts and politicians got us into this mess,
      And it’s the people that will forge a better way forward.

    409. susanXX says:

      Fuck off! I am not racist but I AM an indigenous Scot who has a right to her own country, not a globalist mishmash.

    410. Ruby says:

      Don says:
      17 May, 2021 at 7:25 pm
      Ruby 17 May, 2021 at 5:01 pm

      “Are you trying to disrupt this thread with posts about the English taxpayer? ?”

      Surely trying to understand your own countries economics should be a priority for you ? How many years have you not understood this ?
      Scotland raised £65.9Bn but spent £81Bn https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-gers-2019-20/

      Reply

      What I posted was a joke.

      Let me assure you I have been trying very hard to understand Scotland’s economy and why after 300 years of being is what is claimed to be ‘the most successful union in the history of the world, the universe & every’ that Scotland is an economic basket case and why people would want more of this union.

      I’ve also been trying very hard to understand why the English taxpayer would want to subsidise such an economic basket case of a country.

      If you have any info on what the financial benefits are for England to have Scotland in their Union I will spend time trying to understand it.

    411. bipod says:

      Oh dear a recent study looking into “long covid” in teens has found that the symptoms of it are just as common in teens that haven’t had the virus and in those who have had it.

      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.11.21257037v1.full-text

      So called “long covid” has always been questionable but it is really starting to look like a a bunch of old cobblers now. Its a mix of hypochondriacs and normal, expected after effects of any viral infection. Margaret Ferriers covid impaired her judgement excuse keeps looking increasingly ridiculous.

    412. akenaton says:

      Had a discussion in the real world yesterday with an SNP activist and it came round to the subject of Independence.
      I asked him if he thought Sturgeon was really interested in an Indy ref and he said “of course”, in that case says I, “why did she not instruct her minions to vote SNP1 Alba2, guaranteeing a very large pro Indy majority in Holyrood and a huge level against the unionists?” His answer was that even if Alba got 20 or 30 seats, Sturgeons Party would still be a minority and the Greens more stable allies.
      This does not seem to make sense to me as surely it would be sensible in these circumstances for SNP and Alba to merge in the common good?

      Anyone know if this would have been possible?

    413. Ruby says:

      susanXX says:
      17 May, 2021 at 8:31 pm
      Fuck off! I am not racist but I AM an indigenous Scot who has a right to her own country, not a globalist mishmash.

      Reply

      To be honest I think everyone one wants their ‘own country’ and that is why immigrants like to create their own community.

      British immigrants living in Spain do this.

    414. akenaton says:

      Ruby, I have a number of friends in England and they are all unionists as you might expect, I have discussed your point with them several times and it appears not to be economic at all but more about preserving the tradition of the Union.
      I too wondered what their motivation was and was told it was complicated and involved Her majesty the Queen and our historic involvement in the Commonwealth and various conflicts in defence of the democratic system. Hope this helps.

    415. Ruby says:

      bipod says
      So called “long covid” has always been questionable but it is really starting to look like a a bunch of old cobblers now

      Reply

      Is “long covid” a new name for ME?

    416. Ruby says:

      Akenaton says:
      17 May, 2021 at 9:03 pm
      Ruby, I have a number of friends in England and they are all unionists as you might expect, I have discussed your point with them several times and it appears not to be economic at all but more about preserving the tradition of the Union.
      I too wondered what their motivation was and was told it was complicated and involved Her majesty the Queen and our historic involvement in the Commonwealth and various conflicts in defence of the democratic system. Hope this helps.

      Reply

      Cheers Akenaton!

      Did their explanation help you understand?

    417. Ian Brotherhood says:

      According to Grousebeater, The National Library of Scotland has already approached Rev Stu regarding the archiving of this site.

      With that in mind – and I’m not fingering anyone specific – it may be an idea for some to have wee think about what they’ve written before hitting the ‘submit’ button.

      😉

    418. akenaton says:

      I think it did Ruby, but I would still prefer to see Scottish Independence without the people who are currently in charge.
      I do not believe in Independence at any cost, especially the rights of women, the safety of our children and freedom of speech.

    419. Alf Baird says:

      Akenaton/Ruby

      We might imagine a modest-populated nation of c.5 million people which has an open uncontrolled border with a far larger populated nation of 60 million people, and inflows of around 1 million from the larger to the smaller nation every 20 years. The larger dominant nation also imposes its culture and language on the smaller-populated nation and exploits and plunders its resources via a cultural hegemony. After a century or two of this we might care to think about the negative outcomes for the smaller oppressed nation and the motivation for its people to seek self-determination and liberation from oppression.

      Frantz Fanon described the process thus:

      “The poverty of the people, national oppression and the inhibition of culture are one and the same thing. After a century (or more) of colonial domination we find a culture which is rigid in the extreme, or rather what we find are the dregs of culture, its mineral strata. The withering away of the reality of the nation and the death-pangs of the national culture are linked to each other in mutual dependence.”

    420. Daisy Walker says:

      @ bipod, re ‘So called “long covid” has always been questionable but it is really starting to look like a a bunch of old cobblers now.’

      Dr Ron Davis from Stanford Uni is a bio chemist and was in charge of the Human Genome project.

      His son came back from trip to India and got Chronic Fatigue Syndrom or Fibromyalgia as it is sometimes called. His son is bedridden now.

      With that background he set about finding out what was going on.

      Interestingly – you have people clearly, deeply, deeply ill – but if you carry out checks on the fundamentals – blood pressure, heart function, thyroid, etc – these come back normal.

      And yet for those suffering at the most serious end of the spectrum – something as simple as managing to have a shower, can leave them bedridden for days after.

      He has organised an open science project to find out what CFS/FM is and develop a clinical diagnostic tool that is affordable and effective to assist patients and doctors alike.

      Interestingly – his research is beginning to indicate that there can be many causes/starting events of CFS – such as the Flue, Glandular Fever, Cancer – but subsequent to these events – it looks like long term damage is done to the ATP (energy expenditure and recharging process) within the cells, of which Mitochondria play a vital part.

      This would explain why when a person with this takes exercise – it is not a begining to getting fit, but actually knocks them back.

      Dr Davis and his team are very open to the possibility that ‘long term covid’ is not in and of itself covid, but a legacy from the covid whereby the energy expenditure and recharge process in the body cells has been dramatically impacted.

      If you think about it, if you’ve ever had the flue, after the first 2 weeks, you are probably no longer running a fever, or having a cough, (in other words symptomatic) but you look ill and a strong breeze would knock you for six. Most people get over this wabbit stage, people with CFS do not. Its just there is no fever, or cough.

      What is really interesting, from a tin foil hat perspective, is that it needed a non physician (but someone so highly qualified that they could not ignore him) to tackle this issue – to say that the medical profession lacked interest – would be giving the medical profession too much credit.

      There are numerous videos on You Tube about his work. Anyone suffering from this might want to research how to boost their mitochondria as a way of managing or hacking the condition.

      Quite a few safe methods of doing so – Vitamin D, Intermittent fasting and cold showers being 3 of the main ones.

    421. Effigy says:

      Channel 4 Dispatches proving how Boris is responsible
      for 10’s of thousands of Covid deaths by shear stupidity
      and stubbornness.

    422. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 9:20pm
      Archiving by NLS would be some achievement. It will put Stu on a par with Ian Rankin’s literary works which are already archived there. It will also allow the vitrification of facts that have been hitherto contested. You can imagine revisionist historians unearthing uncontestable nuggets in the fullness of time. I think it will Stu’s articles rather than associated comments but I don’t know, perhaps as a social commentary of the time the comments will appeal to historians. Very interesting.

    423. PhilM says:

      bipod
      Your linked article has not been peer-reviewed and your interpretation of it is seriously skewed. I don’t know why you would want to post your misleading comment on an independence site but you appear to have an agenda, probably a libertarian one. Nothing necessarily wrong with that but when you mislead people to further an ideology, that’s just plain wrong.
      I would advise people to ignore this person’s comments on something they clearly know very little about.

    424. Effigy says:

      Dispatches announce U.K. Covid Death numbers at 157,000.
      Boy is Boris torn apart in this show.

    425. robertknight says:

      @Akenaton 9:03

      “I have discussed your point with them several times and it appears not to be economic at all but more about preserving the tradition of the Union.”

      My experience would lean towards the tradition being more that of Empire than of “Union”.

      England and the English have for centuries cultivated a global outlook whereby the status of their nation was concerned with going to a place which was “other” and exporting language, culture, traditions and customs to that place, thereby making it an extension of the “mother country”, (England), and from which some form of economic and/or strategic benefit could then be obtained.

      Many in England, despite over four centuries of personal Union and three of political, still regard the terms England, Britain and UK as synonymous with each other – to point out any distinction is to be met with a furrowed brow, or the “well, okay, but you know what I mean…” stock response. The “British Empire” was in reality just an extension of the burgeoning pre-1707 English Empire, with the Scots and Irish going on to provide more than their fair share of labour, ingenuity and cannon fodder, facilitated by English finance and expansionism.

      I think many in England see the Union as a last vestige of their (English) Empire, the prospect of its demise rekindling a sense of loss and a sentimentality for former days of glory, when most of the World Atlas was pink. It would go some way towards explaining Westminster’s colonial attitude towards Scotland.

    426. Don says:

      @Ruby 17 May, 2021 at 8:49 pm

      “Let me assure you I have been trying very hard to understand Scotland’s economy and why after 300 years of being is what is claimed to be ‘the most successful union in the history of the world, the universe & every’ that Scotland is an economic basket case and why people would want more of this union.

      I’ve also been trying very hard to understand why the English taxpayer would want to subsidise such an economic basket case of a country.

      If you have any info on what the financial benefits are for England to have Scotland in their Union I will spend time trying to understand it.”

      Exactly the same reasons as Wales , Northern Ireland, the North and the Midlands but likely to continue going right over the top of your head I expect. https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418

    427. Don says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 17 May, 2021 at 9:20 pm
      “According to Grousebeater, The National Library of Scotland has already approached Rev Stu regarding the archiving of this site.”

      According to Grousebeater Aye ? Ever considered that people might tells you things they make up to see how gullible you are ?

    428. Don says:

      @Socrates MacSporran 17 May, 2021 at 7:56 pm

      “Read carefully – I shall type this only once:
      GERS are total pish, made-up statistics, produced by the Treasury with the sole purpose of making Scotland look bad. They bear no relationship to what is actually happening”

      So why then do you think the SNP chose to use GERS for their own 2014 White Paper “Scotlands Future ” then ? 🙂
      and chose them again for the SNP Growth Report in 2018 ?

      Ever heard of Margaret Curthbert ? https://bit.ly/3bByh4u

    429. Breeks says:

      Don says:
      18 May, 2021 at 1:05 am

      So why then do you think the SNP chose to use GERS for their own 2014 White Paper “Scotlands Future ” then ? ?
      and chose them again for the SNP Growth Report in 2018

      Now you’re getting the picture Don. 😉 Why exactly are they doing that?

      We know GERS is manipulated bullshit because Tory Secretary of State Ian Lang said as much when he set GERS up. “I judge that [GERS] is just what is needed at present in our campaign to maintain the initiative and undermine the other parties. This initiative could score against all of them.”

      The figures are produced as the backdrop to the political narrative in Scotland, but the raw data of how the figures are compiled is withheld, so the “official” figures cannot be validated nor effectively contested, but remain the “official” figures.

      For example, I think I’m correct in saying it was GERS which at one point maligned Scotland’s wealth in oil because it *described oil as a UK resource which Scotland was ascribed a population share of 8% or so, and thus misrepresented the fact that an Independent Scotland would not benefit from 8% of North Sea oil, but 96%. (*GERS didn’t describe it at all. The truth had to wrinkled out).

      I believe that particular distortion has been addressed, but denied the raw data, who knows what other distortions remain to manipulate the perspective? We cannot tell for example how much Scottish trade exported from the UK is still recorded as Scottish export if it leaves from an airport or port in England.

      The Treasury keeps the raw data secret, so what else can people do but use the figures, despite knowing they are unreliable? What is the Treasury trying to hide by not releasing the raw data? Proof they’re lying of course, but lying about what?

      It is all the same pattern of denying Scotland access to the truth, entrench the fallacy that an Indy Scotland would be broke and an economic basket case, because the truth might give give succour to our civic nationalism.

      There’s a parallel difficulty in trying to establish how many casualties from both world wars were actually Scottish as opposed to British. Scotland’s casualties were significantly higher, by some accounts the highest casualty rates per capita of any nation in the conflict, other perhaps than Serbia(?) , but clearly the UK needs to deny and defuse the possibility that Scottish troops were perceived as more expendable, and that the UK was profligate with Scottish lives.

      You will no doubt be aware when storming Quebec, James Wolfe sent in the Scottish Highlanders as assault troops declaring, “they are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall.”

      What angers people isn’t the reality of whether Scotland has a weak or strong economy, (our economy would change anyway post Independence), nor that Scots soldiers died in their thousands disproportionately because they could be relied upon to hold the line or take their objectives where lesser warriors might fail. What gets right under peoples’ skin is being lied to, and treated like dummies because knowing the truth would reflect badly on this rotten Union. A Union which runs scared from the truth, and which much constantly lie to us Scots and deny it’s own parasitic nature in order to survive.

    430. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Don @ 1.05am

      I was about to reply to your shite, but, since my good friend Breeks has already ripped you a new one in the post above, I feel it best to allow you to curl up in a ball and lick your wounds.

    431. Big Jock says:

      GERS also assumes Scotland following the same economic model as the UK. It also reflects a Scotland in the union, not an independent country. Its also estimates based on that flawed data.

      Worst of all it assumes the same defence spending on Trident and even HS2 share. Two things that have hee haw to do with an independent Scotland.

      To summarise shit on the neck of a bottle.

    432. wee monkey says:

      A new, all time low.

      “Ruby says:
      17 May, 2021 at 9:05 pm
      Quote:- “bipod says
      So called “long covid” has always been questionable but it is really starting to look like a a bunch of old cobblers now

      Reply

      Is “long covid” a new name for ME?”

    433. Dan says:

      GERS can’t tell us what an independent Scotland would look like. That is of course absolutely true.” – Said Etch a Sketch Graphboy the British Nationalist Blogger…

    434. wee monkey says:

      And finally something for the SNP to take proud leadership off…

      Climate change: Ban all gas boilers from 2025 to reach net-zero

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059

    435. wee monkey says:

      Effigy says:
      17 May, 2021 at 11:05 pm
      Quote:- “Dispatches announce U.K. Covid Death numbers at 157,000.
      Boy is Boris torn apart in this show.”

      As of May 9, 2021, there have been

      1,093,462

      Deaths across the whole of Europe due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) since the first recorded …Better in the fucking EU with no vaccine programme? [apart from the Germans who said fuck this and copied what the UK did]

      Ref:-https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115043/coronavirus-deaths-timeline-in-the-eu-5/

    436. wee monkey says:

      Effigy says:
      17 May, 2021 at 11:05 pm
      Quote:- “Dispatches announce U.K. Covid Death numbers at 157,000.
      Boy is Boris torn apart in this show.”

      As of May 9, 2021, there have been

      1,093,462,

      Deaths across the whole of Europe due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) since the first recorded …Better in the EU with NO vaccine programme? [apart from the Germans who said fuck this and copied what the UK did]

      Ref:-https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115043/coronavirus-deaths-timeline-in-the-eu-5/

    437. Ottomanboi says:

      Hostile environment for truth, fact and democratic freedoms.
      https://off-guardian.org/2021/05/16/second-stage-terror-wars/
      Our own Mother of Lies was being honest when she opined that all hangs on beating the virus.
      Something that will never happen because «the science» is just not supportive.

      She’s the sort of woman who lives for others – you can tell the others by their hunted expression.
      C. S. Lewis (Screwtape Letters)

    438. Breeks says:

      I couldn’t bring the name to mind earlier, but John Jappy’s testimony is also poignant evidence the UK Treasury isn’t playing it straight with Scotland.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/author/john-jappy/

      And of course, how could I forget the infamous McCrone Report, shrouded in secrecy for 30 years while Westminster plundered Scotland’s wealth.

      But Abracadabra, the same UK Treasury’s GERS figures are the Gospel truth? Aye. Sure they are.

    439. Ottomanboi says:

      For Covid morbidity addicts I recommend this site.
      https://swprs.org/contact/
      All the stats you’ll ever need.
      And no hype.

    440. From a tweet,

      Matt Hancock opening up pubs and clubs after lockdown reminds me of the Mayor of Amity in Jaws,

      ` I’m pleased and happy to repeat the news that we have, in fact, caught and killed a large predator that supposedly injured some bathers. But, as you see, it’s a beautiful day, the beaches are open and people are having a wonderful time.`

      Covid still out there , dun dun.. dun dun.

    441. Captain Yossarian says:

      The SNP White Paper was disputed by the UK Gov and GERS are disputed by many in Scotland. Hence, I understand that an offer is going to be made to produce a new Independence White Paper jointly between the UK and Scot Govs. The offer will be made by the UK Gov.

      This will no doubt take years and will be a lot more compex than the Brexit negotiations because there is a lot more to discuss like currencies, defence etc which were not discussed during Brexit.

      My opinion is that there has never been a time in our history when our politicians were less well trusted than now. Therefore, get both sides to do it together and present the finished agreed results to the public. Otherwise, we all stand to be mis-led by one side or the other.

    442. Ruby says:

      Don says:

      Exactly the same reasons as Wales , Northern Ireland, the North and the Midlands but likely to continue going right over the top of your head I expect. https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418

      Reply
      How come you can’t answer two simple questions in your own words?

      Incase you have forgotten the questions were:

      1. Why is Scotland such an economic basket case after 300 years in what is claimed to be ‘the most successful union in the history of the world the universe & everything’? Is being part detrimental for Scotland? Is the Union only successful for a a very small part of the Union?

      2. What are the financial benefits for England
      having Scotland in their Union?

      NB I am not asking you about Wales , Northern Ireland, the North and the Midlands

      Question 2 is about the financial benefits not whether or not England wants Scotland to remain in the Union because we share a Queen, history and folk don’t want their relatives to become foreigners.

    443. J.o.e says:

      Years ago it used to annoy me. Now I find it quite amusing.

      The following is true:
      1 – Scotland is at least as naturally suited to being an independent small nation as any of the others in the world.
      2 – Scotland has a large amount of natural resources (including renewable potential)
      3 – Scotland has world recognised industries.

      So if the following is also true that Scotland is unable to exist currently without outside help then it begs the question: why?

      Well the answer is easy and doesn’t require any long economic discussions – mismanagement.

      Now given that Scotland has only had partial powers returned within the last few decades the burden of the blame for this mismanagement can be laid at the feet of British governance.

      You can say – ‘ah yes, but look at the SNP, look what they have done’ and I won’t disagree. The SNP are not only corrupt they are also totally incompetent now.

      I agree that Scotland can’t have open borders and massive welfare systems like many Scottish Independence supporters like to fantasise

      I agree that it will take work to bring Scotland to her potential which will involve getting the most out of Scots talents and abilities.

      But the simple inescapable fact is that Scotland is a perfectly capable small country which could manage well on its own like many others do. If Scotland is in poor shape then its the way its been managed that’s at fault.

      Anything is else is total gas lighting.

    444. Breeks says:

      wee monkey says:
      18 May, 2021 at 7:59 am
      And finally something for the SNP to take proud leadership off…

      Climate change: Ban all gas boilers from 2025 to reach net-zero…

      Err… What’s the point? … https://archive.is/asYYI

      How much CO2 is produced when you burn 2.7 million tonnes of coal per year?

      But in fairness, I hope Scotland’s oil stays in the ground, and we throw ourselves wholeheartedly into renewables…

      And it seems we’ll need to reacquaint ourselves with traditional Scottish shivering, knitting cardigans and big woolly socks, (and incidentally bring back that childhood torture when your granny got you stand there for hours, days, weeks at a time, holding her wool with your outstretched arms while she rolled it into balls), and all because the Government is going to steal your gas boiler. Bastards.

      Fair Isle Sweaters meet your Brexit nemesis, Unfair Island Cardigans.

      Ha ha! Might copyright that and become a wealthy Mill owner…

    445. Dave Somerville says:

      Reading recent comments, and it proves we have ran out of new ideas on how to tackle the problem New SNP has given us.

      We are just going round and round, regurgitating the same old stories from yesteryear.

      We are witnessing the death of Wings Over Scotland.

      I notice a couple of names starting to show their face more often, appearing after the battle has been lost and they were nowhere to be seen.

      And regards the Yes Movement, it needs someone in the mould of Alex Salmond and Tommy Sheridan rolled into one.

      Someone the majority of Scotland can recognise as their leader.

      I was talking to this female at the weekend, who was all for Independence, and then she went on about Nicola Sturgeon being the one to take us there.

      I tried to explain to her about how devious a little Bastard Sturgeon was, but it didn’t register.

      And then I dropped in the name of Alex Salmond, and got the usual response of, what a beast he was and how he should have been sent to jail.

      I just couldn’t be arsed taking the conversation any further.

      And this is the challenge we have, trying to educate the uneducated amongst us.

      And for a lot of us, it’s just a challenge too far at this moment in time, because, as the saying goes,

      It’s like flogging a dead horse.

    446. Breeks says:

      Dan says:
      18 May, 2021 at 8:32 am
      @ Breeks

      I’ll tack on these too.

      Thanks Dan.

      Then there’s also North Sea Oil being Ex-Regio or whatever the term they used was. Essentially treating the North Sea Oil Fields as country within itself so that the revenue wouldn’t be attributed to Scotland.

    447. Ruby says:

      Captain Yossarian says:
      18 May, 2021 at 8:39 am
      The SNP White Paper was disputed by the UK Gov and GERS are disputed by many in Scotland. Hence, I understand that an offer is going to be made to produce a new Independence White Paper jointly between the UK and Scot Govs. The offer will be made by the UK Gov.

      Reply

      I can’t be bothered with all these official documents I like simple answers to simple questions.

      ie

      1. Do you have faith in Scotland & the people of Scotland to run a successful independent country?

      2. Have events over the past couple of years/having the the “New SNP” in power destroyed people’s faith?

      3. Has being part of the Union been financially detrimental for Scotland?

    448. DJ says:

      Dave Somerville

      I agree, Wings is a pale shadow of what it once was, and now a tiny bubble in a sea of bubbles. No one cares, no one is listening. The kindest thing to do is just knock it on the head.

      And as for independence, same thing goes. Most people simply don’t care. Sad but true.

    449. Ruby says:

      Dave Somerville says:
      18 May, 2021 at 8:56 am
      Reading recent comments, and it proves we have ran out of new ideas on how to tackle the problem New SNP has given us.

      Reply

      At the moment all the problems are for the ‘New SNP’ to solve.

      The main one being organising a referendum.

      Time to relax & watch the show!

    450. J.o.e says:

      Its interesting im seeing people talk of ‘no hope’.

      That’s nonsense. There was no hope while there were just a few of us getting real about the Scottish government and the parliament in general.

      The 1 big difference is the bubbly naivety that plagued (and still does but to a lesser degree) the Scottish independence movement is beginning to diminish.

      The harder, more worldy wise outlook is beginning to emerge.

      One thing that has to be dropped is seeing independence as an end. Its not. Even if we retake our entire country back under Scots control the infiltration will begin to turn our institutions and public consciousness to something more pliable while the economic/financial terrorism would begin to try to destabilize us.

      I can guarantee you one thing – if you consider yourself a Scottish patriot and are in the fight for Scotland you will never see the end of the struggle, you will simply have to do what you can within your lifetime and pass on a stronger situation to our descendants.

      The scale of the anti-nationalist, anti-people forces that are at work in the world today is immense. It goes far beyond the British state. Fortunately we have nationalists all over the world gathering forces and gaining numbers despite the attempts to smear them as evil.

      Scots need to drop the main stream media propaganda, the same propaganda that is literally crushing Scotland, about the groups and parties that oppose the corporate agenda and start making nationalist allies.

      Next red pill after the SNP is the European Union. But lets just savor for a minute the ray of light that has penetrated the minds of many of our folk when it comes to the domestic situation.

    451. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      I now prefer to use the term Scottish Territorial Waters rather than solely The North Sea, as there are significant resources to our North and West in the Atlantic Ocean.
      A ponderance, if oil and gas is classed as being from extra-regio areas, are the revenues relating to fish caught, and renewable energy produced in these same areas also included in extra-regio accounts…

      ———-

      As it is humans that are deemed to be causing so much carnage on the planet, surely the big question is which is more important: Saving human lives from a virus so they can continue to pollute, or embracing this viral opportunity to reduce the global population, with the added bonus that due to the reduced numbers of humans burdening the planet, the remainder wouldn’t have to change out their inefficient gas boilers.

      What if it is all God’s will, and after seeing the complete clustefuck humans have made, he / she / they / it has now switched their allegiance to backing some other organism on our planet to see if they can make a better job of looking after it.

    452. Cenchos says:

      One thing which will have huge implications for the union and unionists is the simple fact that, at 95, the queen’s reign is coming to an end.

    453. J.o.e says:

      @Dan

      The types of people who pushed a debt based system on the worlds people which requires constant growth, are the same type of people who sit at the top of the economic ladder now thanks to that very system. Who are now telling us we need to die off or live like peasants to ‘save the planet’.

      Sincerely – go and fuck off.

    454. wee monkey says:

      J.o.e says:
      18 May, 2021 at 8:52 am
      Quote:- “Years ago it used to annoy me. Now I find it quite amusing.

      The following is true:
      1 – Scotland is at least as naturally suited to being an independent small nation as any of the others in the world.
      2 – Scotland has a large amount of natural resources (including renewable potential)
      3 – Scotland has world recognised industries.

      So if the following is also true that Scotland is unable to exist currently without outside help then it begs the question: why?

      Well the answer is easy and doesn’t require any long economic discussions – mismanagement.

      Now given that Scotland has only had partial powers returned within the last few decades the burden of the blame for this mismanagement can be laid at the feet of British governance.

      You can say – ‘ah yes, but look at the SNP, look what they have done’ and I won’t disagree. The SNP are not only corrupt they are also totally incompetent now.

      I agree that Scotland can’t have open borders and massive welfare systems like many Scottish Independence supporters like to fantasise

      I agree that it will take work to bring Scotland to her potential which will involve getting the most out of Scots talents and abilities.

      But the simple inescapable fact is that Scotland is a perfectly capable small country which could manage well on its own like many others do. If Scotland is in poor shape then its the way its been managed that’s at fault.

      Anything is else is total gas lighting.”

      —–

      Not sure that worked out quite as you thought it would..

      “Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.”

    455. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Apologies for the length of this post.

      I AM 74 years of age. I have been entitled to vote for over 50 years, during which I have always, up until the Scottish Election of 6 May, voted SNP. On that Thursday, earlier this month, in spite of Alex Salmond’s advice that – for the best chance of hastening a second Independence Referendum – I should vote SNP on the Constituency and ALBA, the party of which I am a member, on the List; I found, I could no longer vote for the SNP.

      That failure to vote for the SNP is perhaps the biggest drawback to the quest for Scottish Independence, because, in the eyes of the majority of the Scottish population – the SNP is the Independence Movement. However, when, as now, “The Party of Independence” shows no interest in genuinely pursuing that end – that is bad news for the cause of Scottish freedom.

      Have a look at the numbers.

      2014 Independence Referendum: YES: 1,617,989 votes – NO: 2,001,926.

      Those 1,617,989 Yes voters, representing 45% of those who voted in the Referendum; and 38% of the total Scottish electorate, were potential SNP voters.

      2015 UK General Election.

      The SNP took 56 of the 59 Scottish seats, capturing 50% of the vote, and the support of 35.5% of the total electorate. In all they had 1,454,436 votes. But, significantly, 10% of those pro-Independence voters, a mere eight months before – failed to support at the ballot box, the only party offering Independence.

      2016 Holyrood Election.

      The SNP entered that election as the party of government, defending 69 of the 129 seats which had given them an overall majority after the 2011 Election.

      They still emerged as the largest party, but, lost 6 seats.

      On the Constituency ballot SNP support rose, from the 902,915 votes, 1,059,898 votes – a rise of 156,983 votes, worth 17%.

      On the List ballot, SNP support rose from the 876,421 of 2011, to 953,587 votes – a rise of 77,166 votes – just under 9%.

      Under the vagaries of the d’Hondt system, however, this cost the SNP 12 seats

      Furthermore, those 1,059,989 votes showed, overall support for Independence had dropped by 558,091 votes – 35% from the 2014 figure.

      SNP support waned even further in the badly-planned and executed campaign of the 2017 UK General Election, however, a better campaign in the 2019 UK General Election saw some ground recovered. The SNP emerged with 48 of the 59 Scottish seats; overwhelmingly the largest party in Scotland, but, 8 seats fewer than after their 2015 landslide win.

      In all, the party won 1,242,380 votes, 45% of those cast in Scotland and the support of 30.7% of the total Scottish electorate. However, this was a drop of 375,609 or 23% of the pro-Independence vote of 2014.

      In 2019, the position in Scotland was still the same as in 2014: a 55%-45% lead for the anti-Independence parties over the SNP.

      On 6 May, in the 2021 Holyrood Election, in the Constituency vote, the combined SNP/Greens pro-Independence vote was 1,326,194 votes, representing 48.8% of the votes cast, but only 30.9% of the total electorate, entitled to vote, which stood at 4,280,785.

      So, whereas in 2014 the YES vote represented the wishes of 38% of the whole Scottish electorate. In 2021, the SNP vote alone was 1,291,204, which represents 47.5% of the votes cast but, only 30.2% of the total electorate.

      In 2015, the SNP was claiming a membership of 112,000. Just a few weeks ago, official SNP figures indicated the membership had dropped to 70,000. Then, in the wake of the Scottish Parliament and James Hamilton Committees findings being published, they were triumphantly claiming 12,000 new members in a matter of two weeks.

      Impressive figures, but, 82,000 members is a mere 73% of the 2015 membership. So, six years of Sturgeon rule has seen the party’s membership drop by at least 27%.

      Under Nicola Sturgeon, SNP party membership has DECREASED.

      Under Nicola Sturgeon, support for Independence has DECREASED.

      So, those of us who want Scotland to be Independent have to acknowledge, in six years of Nicola Sturgeon as First Minister, support for Independence has fallen from 38% of the entire Scottish electorate to 30.7%. That is a fall of 19% in genuine -rather than hypothetical via opinion polls – for Independence.

      Under these circumstances, there is no way the SNP can claim “a mandate for holding a second independence referendum.”

      Received wisdom is that, at best Scotland is split roughly 50-50 on the independence question. As things stand, a majority of 50% + 1 vote in any referendum would be sufficient to carry the question. I would suggest, that would be a very-divisive result, leaving a newly-Independent Scotland with a disgruntled, large percentage of the population opposed to the decision. That is no basis in which to start off a newly independent nation.

      The only way I can see that the argument for or against Independence could be settled at the ballot box would be via a referendum, which required the winning side to take at least two-thirds of the votes cast, with at least that proportion of the total electorate voting.

      Taking the 2021 Holyrood Election as the template for this, this would give us:

      Total electorate – 4,280,785

      Turn-out required: 66.6% – 2,851,003

      Yes votes required (66.6% of 2,851,003) – 1,898,768

      Given the turnout in the 2014 Referendum was 84.6%, getting the turnout in Indyref2 – provided both Independence and Unionist supporters agree – will surely top the baseline two-thirds, reaching the two-thirds in favour should not be too difficult.

      In 2014 the unsuccessful Yes vote was 1,617,989 – 280,779 short of the notional target for winning Indyref2. Bridging that gap is surely not beyond the wit and will of the Independence side – provided they make a proper case for Independence.

      In the List ballot for the 2021 Holyrood Election, the pro-Independence vote – the combined total for the SNP, the Scottish Greens and ALBA was 1,359,611 – 258.378 short of the notional target for winning Indyref2.

      It is simply a case of the Independence movement getting their ducks in a row, making their case, selling it properly, and getting their vote out on the day. Of course, that would require the Scots to act, as one, for the benefit of Scotland – there had to be a drawback.

    456. J.o.e says:

      ‘“Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.”’

      I think its about right.

      Scots are in a constant process of demoralisation that involves the establishment denying observable reality.

    457. Ottomanboi says:

      Jason Leitch is the Scottish government virus «adept».the guy responsible for enforcing a suppression model that is not working, anywhere.
      As you all know he’s a dentist by profession.
      Here he is «full of faith».
      http://hiltonchurch.org.uk/2020/04/professor-jason-leitch-man-of-faith/27/

    458. Captain Yossarian says:

      Ruby says:
      18 May, 2021 at 9:06 am

      ‘Divide and conquor’ is what both sides are trying to do. Just get the negotiations done jointly and publish the results before we have a referendum. Folk on these pages and elsewhere will soon interrogate them. The present SNP and UK Gov in Scotland will have a lot vested in making it work and so I would encourage it. Boris Johnson will say it is his responsibility as Head of the UK Gov to get this information agreed and put in the public domain. Nicola Sturgeon can hardly turn him down can she.

      There is a comment previously that we are flogging a dead horse just now and I think that is true. Something has to give as people are tired and impatient.

    459. @Dave Somerville,

      as the founder of SNP said 100 years ago ish,

      “The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

      R B Cunninghame Graham.

      ` “Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

      there are to many Scots born without imagination but also they live in fear of leaving the Brutish Empire,

      not cowards just just people afraid of change and the big world and leaving their masters,

      a bit of Stockholm syndrome.

    460. bipod says:

      @PhilM

      Know very little about? From the tone of your comment I am assuming you must be an expert in the field, please tell me how my interpretation of the study is skewed. I doubt that you are, an expert wouldn’t have to assume my politics (and wrongly) to make the point. Long covid has always been a very nebulously defined thing, everything from exhaustion, to brain cancer to male infertility I am not surprised that when anyone tries to seriously look for it they struggle to find anything out of the ordinary.

    461. Breeks says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      18 May, 2021 at 10:06 am
      @Dave Somerville,

      as the founder of SNP said 100 years ago ish,

      “The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

      R B Cunninghame Graham.

      Thing is, I actually believe that’s out of date, and were he still alive, I think R. B. Cunningham Graham would be just as perplexed and bewildered as the rest of us as to what the SNP under Sturgeon is actually playing at.

      You cannot offload the blame onto those people born without imagination when the sheer stagnation and interminable procrastination from which the Independence Movement is being stymied, has arisen as a direct consequence of the SNP’s dismal “Leadership”.

      It actually feels like a new and unwelcome dynamic that we now have the current SNP to overthrow and get out of the way first before we can even think of running an inspirational campaign which reaches out to those Scots “born without imagination” which Cunningham Graham had in mind.

      What an utter shambles.

    462. Dorothy Devine says:

      Some interesting articles on Grousebeater. Alarming should you ever need a lawyer and you aren’t as rich as Croesus.

    463. Ron Maclean says:

      @Captain Yossarian 8:39am

      ‘Otherwise, we all stand to be mis-led by one side or the other.’

      Or both.

    464. Dan says:

      @ J.o.e at 9:43 am

      Ach, t’was just a bit of bantz to mull over. I trust you’re not suggesting that I sit at the top of the economic ladder trying to foist policy on the lowly plebs.

      @ Socrates MacSporran at 9.49am

      Have to be careful when comparing stats as the various elections use different eligibility franchises. Which of course brings in a myriad factors as to why folk vote the way they do.
      EG. In the recent Scottish Parliament elections I had spoken at length in several conversations to a couple of young EU Nationals that have settled status here. Taking the time to explain the complex situation Scotland finds itself in.
      They are nice folk but really don’t have a fuckin clue about Scottish politics though, as they just haven’t been here long enough to study and take onboard so many factors.
      As EU Nationals they still have their freedom of movement, so assisting Scotland regaining some form of integration with Europe for our citizens and businesses isn’t a priority for them because they have no idea what Scotland losing our EU citizenship means for our society.
      I highly suspect that even after our conversations they will have voted Green for “the environment” based on very superficial comprehension of what the Scottish Greens have been up to and where their priorities lie. And there is little Scotland can do with big environmental policy changes whilst stuck in the Union with so many major and influential powers such as Energy being retained at Westminster.
      A quick passing look in their bin showed they can’t be arsed recycling their own waste properly, so it’s just the usual vote green as it will somehow compensate for doing fuck all.

      One of the drawbacks of having this open electoral franchise without a reasonable duration of residency term constraint before being allowed to vote means that many aren’t up the curve, and it also allows a more diverse range of folk to be influenced and manipulated for divide and rule purpose.
      Bottom line is that if after a full Parliamentary term the pro- indy electorate still couldn’t get their heads around #BothVotesSNP pish, it shows that those that hold power have a huge time cushion to out manoeuvre or offset any movement or threats that could challenge their power.

    465. Breeks says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      18 May, 2021 at 9:49 am
      Apologies for the length of this post….

      It is my firm belief the reason why the Unionists do not want another Referendum to happen, to the embarrassing extent they will dispense with democratic principle to obstruct one, is because they had to cheat to win the last one, and their chances of winning the next one look hopeless and forlorn.

      Fast forward to 2021 and it’s not the Unionists, but Sturgeon’s feckless SNP dragging it’s feet, procrastinating and kicking the issue into the long grass, and it’s posing some awkward questions about the SNP’s confidence that it can actually win a Referendum if by some miracle one is called.

      Sorry, but where we were in 2015 vs where we are now in 2021 just makes my blood boil. With Brexit and Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, Scottish Independence should be running rampant and we ought to be in the final straights of securing actual Independence.

      Sturgeon has been death to us, her leadership an unmitigated and a deeply, deeply, damaging catastrophe.

    466. Stoker says:

      FOR ANYONE WHO MISSED IT:

      Brian Doonthetoon says on 17 May, 2021 at 4:32 pm

      “The archive of Wings Over Scotland:-

      https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://wingsoverscotland.com

      From the summer of 2012 onwards.

      Bookmark that link and you can browse all the stuff you’ve missed.”

      Or install the site (WaybackMachine) as an App for slightly quicker access. Whichever you prefer!

    467. Captain Yossarian says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      18 May, 2021 at 11:29 am

      Agreed, Ron – but they will have their work cut-out in trying to mis-lead those on here.

    468. Pixywine says:

      Scot Finlayson. Get back to your knitting you frightened old woman.

    469. Pixywine says:

      Covid 19 is a full on Gaslighting operation. I’m highly surprised people still fall for it. Texas has no “covid” deaths and no restrictions. Say no to coersed vaccines. Say no to the vaccine passport surveillance system. I demand ALLmy freedoms back and the 30 quid two police highway men stole from me in Norgh Berwick while Sturgeon and MSM can go where they please. Fascists.

    470. Ottomanboi says:

      The undemocratic collection who sold out Scotland in the early 18th century were the ones with no imagination, beyond making a fast English pound.
      That lack of imagination still informs contemporary unionism and regrettably also sections of the party political arm of modern Scottish nationalism.
      Be safe, stay British and wear the muzzle,
      Now SCREAM!

    471. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Breeks @ 11.49am.

      I do not share your confidence in the Yes side winning Indyref2.

      As you say, and I agree, given the mess Westminster has made of things since 2014 – the Independence Movement ought to be salivating at the prospect of an overwhelming win in Indyref23.

      However, with Sturgeon, or any of the current SNP ruling cabal in-charge of the Yes campaign, victory looks a lot less sure.

      Project fear could still turn things around. Back in 2014 the movement had a charismatic leader – who still managed to scare-off a number of Scots, today, that movement is a clear case of lions led by donkeys.

      Until that changes, Scotland is going nowhere.

      If you like, Alex Salmond was our Wallace – the charismatic leader we needed, until brought down by a combination of the English media and some self-centred Scottish “nobles” at the top of the SNP.

      Our 21st century Bruce – the one who will win the battle – has still to emerge.

    472. Gordon Currie says:

      I found a link to an FoI to the Organisation of National Statistics titled:

      “All deaths from COVID-19 and deaths from COVID-19 with no underlying conditions”

      In the summary there’s the following:

      Deaths from COVID-19 only

      We have also been producing Pre-existing conditions of people whose death was recorded with an underlying cause of COVID-19, deaths registered in 2020, this dataset can be found in section 7 of the Monthly mortality analysis bulletin. This dataset provides a greater insight into the leading pre-existing cause of death groups, for deaths occurring in England and Wales in 2020 that were due to COVID-19. This will be updated quarterly. COVID-19 deaths involving pre-existing conditions is split by broad age groups between 1 to 64 years and 65 years and over.

      Please see “table 1a, row 28” for deaths where COVID-19 was listed as the underlying cause, but had no other pre-existing conditions recorded on the death certificate.

      There was a total of 9400 deaths in 2020 that were due to COVID-19 and were recorded without any pre-existing conditions.

    473. Breeks says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      18 May, 2021 at 1:16 pm
      Breeks @ 11.49am.

      I do not share your confidence in the Yes side winning Indyref2.

      No, my confidence isn’t high, but it makes me very angry because it should be.

      In my opinion, the year of the Brexit Transition period was the optimal high tide moment for Scottish Independence, IF we’d had someone competent in charge, but as we now know, the SNP’s NEC didn’t even discuss Independence throughout an 18 month period.

    474. Ottomanboi says:

      When «British» is history so also the sectarianism which animates it.
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/19309507.dont-forget-root-cause-sectarian-division-scotland/
      So, why the years of procrastination?

    475. Stephen says:

      Ottomanboi
      It is worse than you say.
      Our sectarianism has been exported and is now firmly entrenched across the world.

    476. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Bartleby64 says: at 1:17 pm

      Pixywine, rubbish.
      https://www.dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/
      ———————-
      Yes B64, it is rubbish from Pixywine.

      It’s also rubbish from the rest of the nodding donkeys, Akenaton, Don, Somerville and any other of the Brit Nat trolls with ever changing names.

      A procession of the thickest of the thick.

      They’re not interested in a meaningful dialogue to further Independence or the YES movement in general.

      They are Yoonionists who want nothing more than to break the back of any Independence thought, progress to a Referendum or moves to air constitutional questions that would carry Scotland forward. They don’t give a toss about your arguments. Even the cartoons give them the s**ts.

      The SNP is weak and loaded with a barely hidden corruptive cabal and nicely under control from WM.

      WOS is the biggest, hardest hitting thorn in their side, hence their desperate attempts to destroy the integrity of the site in the eyes of the many thousands of viewers.

      WOS is journalism at its best in Scotland, threads with strong evidence backed authority and no holds barred.

      Want the truth, go to WOS.

      The troll M.O. is deflection, conspiracy theories, ridicule, false information from dubious Unionist sources, or even just downright lying.

      And no, WOS isn’t dead yet. No luck there lads.

      Sooner or later the REV will start to get itchy fingers… 🙂

    477. akenaton says:

      You are quite wrong to include me in your troll list Midgehunter,
      I think this is one of the few political sites where we are all free to give our opinions and I do donate.
      I resigned from the SNP in 2016 and if Sturgeon and her fellow travellers are removed I will join again immediately, but I will not support an administration which tolerates “The Greens” attempts to undermine women’s rights or attacks freedom of speech and children’s welfare.

    478. Dave Somerville says:

      Graf Midgehunter

      Are you Al Stuart?

      That’s usually his forte, to make up lists of who should be shot at dawn or not.

      I’ve been called a lot of things over the years, but never a Brit Nat.

      So what do you want me to do Graf?

      Have I to disappear or await further instructions from you.

      The Rev is trying to go out with a bit of dignity, why not show him some, and while you’re

    479. Dave Somerville says:

      Graf midgehunter/Al Stuart

      And try showing other contributors a bit of respect.

    480. Republicofscotland says:

      Interesting to note that the formation of Police Scotland has left policing centralised and easier to control from Holyrood.

      Not only that but cuts have been quietly made to Police Scotland, several police stations in Glasgow have closed and others are just shells of police stations, that are no longer holding stations.

      Police Scotland failed miserably on Saturday to control the violent mob in George Sq and surrounding areas, and only two dozen or so arrests were made, and when you realise that Glasgow now has a vastly reduced capacity of holding cells, it becomes apparent the reason Police Scotland allowed the unlawful mob of violent RFC supports to continue on with their thuggery and vile sectarian songs right into the wee small hours.

      Mark Sutherland the divisional Commander for Glasgow, knew what expect on Saturday as RFC fans had already given him a preview weeks earlier with their mass gatherings outside Ibrox football stadium. So he was under no illusion what to expect, yet he failed miserably in his preparation for Saturday past.

      Excuses and obfuscation has been the order of the day from the very top of Police Scotland, with no one prepared to take responsibility for the shocking failure to control arrest and disperse the violent mob that shamed Glasgow and Scotland last Saturday.

      No doubt the likes of Ian Livingstone, looks across to Holyrood and sees that no punishments or sackings have taken place over recent events and thinks to himself, if there’s no accountability at Holyrood then they’ll be very little accountability at Police Scotland.

      Scotland is heading in a very dark and uncertain route, it has been for several years now.

    481. Dave Somerville says:

      Graf Midgehunter/Al Stuart

      This came to mind after I posted my last comment about your “List”.

      “Schindler’s List”.

      That can be the name of your little list.

      Personally, I thought it was quite funny.

    482. Bartleby64 says:

      Graf Midgehunter, I am a unionist, though I hope not a troll. I don’t tell people how to vote (not my business), I don’t think Scotland is ‘too wee, too small’, I do not try to undermine the core beliefs of Independence supporters. I do loathe Ms. Sturgeon and her horrible clique and I thought voting Alba 2 was a very rational thing to do. I also believe that Mr. Salmond was stitched up like kipper. I hope that I am at least honest in my views.

    483. PaulaJ says:

      Ruby says:
      “Do you think we could compare ourselves to Native Americans &
      Indigenous Australians who both have very high rates & drug & alcohol addiction?

      Do you think being colonised is the root cause?”

      I honestly don’t know, Ruby, but I can’t remember ever talking to anyone who suggested that was the cause. Sad, if true.

    484. Captain Yossarian says:

      “An inclusive, forward looking and ambitious speech from
      @NicolaSturgeon in accepting her election as First Minister of Scotland. An open invitation to us all to chart the future of our country.” – John Swinney

      Now that Covid is as good as over, they should be getting round to issuing a new White Paper explaining the advantages of independence. No need for any delays, this can start right now.

      The UK Government has offered to validate the contents of any White Paper, to add sections of their own so that the voters can decide, or to make it a fully joint White Paper.

      That sounds good to me.

      Remember the Brexit negotiations took several years of dialogue and what was produced at the end of it was far from perfect. These negotiations will be even longer lasting and so let’s get them started and we will see what everyone is made of.

    485. Pixywine says:

      Bartleby64. So lockdown for life?

    486. Pixywine says:

      Bartleby64. I checked out your link. An official site with a Walt Disney cartoon of a “virus” that has never been meaningfully isolated and even if it is extant there’s no use trying to hide anymore.

    487. Bartleby64 says:

      Pixywine, who said anything about locking down for life? Not me and that is a classic argumentum ad absurdum. You were mistaken or dishonest about deaths in Texas, and how they choose to represent a coronavirus is of no importance whatsoever as most coronaviruses look pretty similar. The clue is in the name.

    488. Ron Maclean says:

      @Captain Yossarian 4:42pm

      It would be extremely naive of a seceding people to allow validation of their case by a predecessor State.

      I suspect the current Scottish government would be foolish enough, gullible enough and venal enough to do just that.

    489. Pixywine says:

      Grafmidghunter. Your propaganda was old a few weeks into this lockdown nightmare. In calling out people as trolls do you not see that you are the Troll. I have tried to impart information on covid 19 ask questions and advise on sites to view for more on the debate around the subject. You on the other hand are defensive abusive insulting and clueless. You seem to get a wee rush by playing at online secret agents. Our predicament is far too serious for your vapid fun and games

    490. Captain Yossarian says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      18 May, 2021 at 5:25 pm

      I think it needs joint agreement, as Brexit. Brexit’s flaws were to do with relatively small items like seed potatoes and shellfish. Some of the bigger items like the Irish border were not right either, mind-you.

      I think the Tories and the SNP just have to get along and get into it. That’s what mature governments have to do.

    491. Pixywine says:

      Living in denial referencing Tory tabloid headlines and paying homage to power rattling off bogus inflated covid statistics. How daft does the lockdown queen think Joe Public is.
      Again try to imagine that the reason people don’t die from covid 19 after 500,000 marched through London every Saturday for the past several months is because the virus is effectively over. There is nothing to fear. Did you not know that many thousands of anti lockdown protesters gathered outside the BBC in London last Saturday? You’re missing the real news friends. Time to get out of the Echo Chamber. While we have been locked down our Politicians have been implementing the UNs Green Agenda without asking the public even though it affects our lives more than it affects the miserable political class.
      We’ve had our world taken from us and I will never forgive the politicians responsible for the damage being done to our children who are being abused by the Sturgeon Government as they suffer in class wearing facemasks. The facemask is a symbol of Oppression.
      Having voted for Alec Salmonds party I’m a strange kind of Unionist. Maybe I’m a deep cover agent or some other silly Grafmidghunter nonsense. I could not bring myself to vote SNP because of the damage they have done to Independence, their woke insanity and their collusion with one of the biggest crimes and swindlers ever carried out against mankind.
      Even though we disagree I send whoever reads this my best wushes

    492. Pixywine says:

      Wishes.

    493. twathater says:

      Breeks , Socrates, irrespective of what Sturgeon and her clown show characters decide on having an indy ref we will still be fucked

      She has had 7 years to reflect on any mistakes made and has done absolutely fuck all to address or correct them, as we are ALL aware the unionists are STILL NAILING her with prior 2014 arguments and statements, all her FALSE bravado and assertiveness is for the morons who believe her pish and waffle like the ones frequenting PayPal Paul’s site

      I have posted the same thing time after time , we REAL independence supporters on WINGS don’t need explanations , graphs or slide shows to convince us of the benefits of independence, we KNOW within our hearts it is the sensible and right thing for us and our country

      BUT there are also the faint hearts for whatever reason who need assurance and convincing of the real benefits of indy ,they need the examples and contrasts of union V indy, how they will be better off or at least not worse off , but the cretin and her clown show have done nothing in the past 7 years and will do nothing in the next 5 years to produce ANY evidence to challenge or REFUTE anything WM and the MSM infer, or to even attempt to persuade or educate the faint hearts or undecided

      That is why Stuart Campbell and WINGS has been targeted mercilessly by NOT only unionists but by Sturgeon’s sycophantic idolaters because the FACTS are posted here every day for anyone who cares to be educated and that is evidenced by the amount of unionist trolls and sturgeon trolls desperately trying to thwart and deny the facts being produced

    494. Pixywine says:

      Bartleby64. We were told it was a ” novel virus” and you say it doesn’t matter which the clue is in the name. Did you know there’s something like 500 known corona virus?. To describe my argument as absurd is to deny the year of lockdown we’ve experienced and the extreme nature of our Governments. Apparently I’m a Unionist like you. Ha.

    495. Pixywine says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is a contemporary example of a full blown personality Cult as when you listen to her closely-while observing 2 metre rule- you notice she’s as empty as Ian Blackford. On YouTube there are a series of monologues and interviews delivered by Prof. Sam Vaknin on the subject of political narcissism. About an hour and twenty long. Very interesting.

    496. Big Jock says:

      Sturgeon is good at faking empathy. Its her speciality. However her actions show the opposite of empathy.

      If you can treat a former friend and colleague , the way she treated Salmond. Then you genuinely have a personality disorder. She is a fake in many things. Independence to her is just another thing she needs to fake.



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