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GERS: The Movie

Posted on August 27, 2016 by


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    1. 27 08 16 08:57

      GERS: The Movie | speymouth

    142 to “GERS: The Movie”

    1. Swami Backverandah says:

      Why won’t Sturgeon just admit we’re shite?

      She’d be lying.
      That’s Carmichael’s department.

    2. Stoker says:

      Thanks, Chris, hope you had a good holiday!

    3. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Hmm, Chris, are you channeling JaBa in that image of the grinch…?

    4. RogueCoder says:

      Excellent as always from Mr Cairns!

      I just had a peek at a well known unionist twitter troll’s timeline and he’s virtually climaxing over the GERS figures as he uses the Cringe on everyone who disagrees with him. They really do hate Scotland.

      There are all sorts of problems with the GERS numbers, but the lie that they are a “starting point” for indy Scotland is the one that most annoys me. Somebody online – and I’m not sure if this is true, but I suspect that it is – pointed out that NO COUNTRY that has gained independence from Britain’s empire has EVER taken a share of the national debt. This alone would impact the “deficit” in an indy Scotland by over £4bn a year, so the idea than negotiations won’t have an impact on Scottish public finances is complete bunkum. The very act of independence changes the economy dramatically, and, of course, I would argue that the impact would – will be – positive.

    5. Robert Louis says:

      Excellent!! This is the REAL problem with Scotland. This is what is holding us back. The so-called ‘journalists’ and ‘unionists’ merrily dancing to England’s lies, slagging off their OWN country, with barely a thought. The Andrew Neill’s, the London unionist Scots, who merrily sneer at their own country.

      Cringe, cringe, cringe, cringety, cringe. Down on their knees, under England’s yoke, telling the world how sh*te Westminster thinks Scotland and its people are.

      This cartoon, is one of the very best from Chris Cairns. Nailed. 🙂

    6. Almannysbunnet says:

      That hit the spot and loosened my giggle pin.
      Chris Cairns, in the words of Tina Turner:
      Simply the best, better than aaall the rest.

    7. heedtracker says:

      Great cartoon. If Scotland could just monetise our unionist cringe but we’d be shite at that too.

    8. Wulls says:

      During the many “discussions” I have had recently about GERS I keep coming back to “Why then do we have the worst deficit in Europe when we are one of the most energy rich nations in the EU”?
      No-one has really come up with an answer yet.
      Bottom line is without the defence contribution, without the debt servicing contribution, and without the corporation tax and export duty generated in Scotland but paid to Westminster we would be right at the top.
      Very few in the media are mentioning that.
      Wonder why. ??????

    9. ronnie anderson says:

      Us Scots ur shite withoot the stink, we hiv tae wait oan the English Parliament & they’re toddies tae add it & they add it aplenty.

      Nice one Chris.

    10. Robert Louis says:

      Rogue coder at 0816am,

      That is the point. The GERS figures are bunkum. All they show is just how awful London rule has been at running the Scottish economy for 308 years. The Scottish economy is run by our English overlords, not by Scotland.

      With independence, we would no longer be paying their debts, no longer paying for their vanity nuclear missiles, no longer paying for their illegal wars, no longer paying for their English high speed rail line, their vanity ‘Britnat ‘celebrations’ no longer paying for things like the refurbishment of London Paddington station, or the Jubilee line extension, or when it happens Heathrow’s third runway. The list goes on and on, of things Scottish taxpayers pay for in London.

      GERS tells us how bad the union has been for Scotland. It says nothing about independence. Nothing at all.

    11. Giving Goose says:

      The Forelock Tuggers cringing obedience to their London masters is holding Scotland back.

      To be a Tugger and carry around such self loathing baggage.

      Well I’m no Tugger and no Tugger is going to bring me down to their level of poor self respect.

    12. starlaw says:

      Two countries share the North Sea oil and gas fields. One is filthy rich and the other is us. What’s happened to our share. Why wont any News programme or Newspaper explain.

    13. Marie Clark says:

      Great stuff Chris. Hit the nail right on the head there.

      There it is, in all its’ glory, the Scottish MSM and the yoons. This is what is holding Scotland back, boy do these cringers hate their own country.

      Get up off your knees for goodness sake and open your eyes to the possibilities of a free Scotland.

    14. Grouse Beater says:

      A winner Chris. I like use of the Gringe, an American cartoon character that doesn’t travel far.

      It’s hard to understand why the informed still compare us and our achievements badly against English counterparts. They should be aware of the discrepancies by now, and know how to counteract the disease.

      I’ve written a bit about the Scottish ‘Cringe’ as repeated by James MacMillan, leader of the band.

      That Crazy Composer:
      Unionist Roundup:

      Keep sketching ammunition, Chris! We been all the volunteers we can get.

    15. galamcennalath says:

      This is one of my favourites, Chris. Excellent.

      Scotland has two problems: London establishment who conspire to Lord over us, and THE CRINGE among some of our own people!

      Those two things are intertwined IMO. London and her running dogs have carefully crafted the notion that Greater England and all it stands for is superior and to be aspired to. Anything non compliant is inferior.

      I am proud to be non compliant, but in no way feel inferior!

    16. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scotland still scares England.
      They think we’re mad,
      our politics flawed.

      Not understanding is a trait,
      we don’t share.

      For some, many,
      ignorance is bliss.

    17. Geoff Huijer says:

      Nailed it.

      The cringe is like some sort of defence mechanism where supporters of the Union can dupe themselves against what they know is true – that Scotland could be a successfull independent nation. The know it COULD be but to accept that would destroy all the beliefs about ‘too wee, too poor, too stupid’ that has been introjected over decades.

      Many are able to change their attitudes as they have seen the debate gradually move into the ‘mainstream’. Others, however, still have the internal conflict of what they suspect or know to be true but are unable yet to accept that they have beliefs that have been formed by having been lied to.

    18. louis.b.argyll says:

      If an INDEPENDENT Scotland is ‘forced’ to take a slice of UK DEBT..

      Then we get 12.5% ownership of THE ENTIRE REMAINING EMPIRE. That’s all government and monarchy assets and land across the globe.

      My God, how much credit could we get with that, 5.5 million of us?

    19. Chic McGregor says:


      I suppose GG could be the Cat in the hat.

      Patrick Harvey the Lorax

      Sneetches the Tory party(s).

    20. Chic McGregor says:

      Sylvester McMonkey McBean has to be McTernan.

    21. Grouse Beater says:

      Grouse Beater granddad exposed!

    22. Croompenstein says:

      a wee nugget from the cringer in chief..

    23. Smallaxe says:

      I think Nicola would be happy to tell the Daily EX-Press that
      they are Shite.

      Nice one Chris 🙂 Peace

    24. Jock McDonnell says:

      Perhaps they are an end point for the union.

    25. Joemcg says:

      It beats me how the other 200 independent countries can keep afloat year after year. No unionist cringer can answer that question. There must be very few others that can match Scotland’s resource rich status plus with such a small population. It’s unbelievable half of us are so gullible to believe this shite.

    26. Les Wilson says:

      Excellent Toon again Chris, you leave all the others, across the UK, in the dust.

      Looking at all the issues of Indy that may turn the heads of the UKOK admirers, there are very many reasons to shake their belief but the best, and the simplest is the one that points out that Scotland’ troubles are the result of 308 years of misrule by Westminster, along with the sums we would save after Indy.

      A synopsis of this along with what we would no longer be paying for would make a great leaflet, placard or poster. All of these would be great. There are very more ways to put this, and very obvious reasons, but this one is simple to understand, and gets the core message out there.

      I think this should be very prominent in our coming Indy2 campaign.

    27. JLT says:

      I came across an argument on the day that GERS was released btween none other than 2 Unionists (one a Scot, the other English).

      The person from England after reading GERS was for scrapping the Barnett Formula straightaway. He was seriously angry at England subsidising Scotland, and as we all know, many within the English electorate would agree with this gentlemen’s point of view. While Scottish Unionists were gleefully taking delight in Scotland’s deficit, they were also highlighting that only through the ‘pooling and sharing of resources’ of the Union could Scotland benefit while Scotland runs at a loss. But folk down South don’t see it that way, and the Scottish gentleman found himself in an argument over it.

      Surprisingly, the Scottish Unionist eventually found himself warning the Englishman that ending the Barnett Formula would kill the Union. But for the Englishman, he was not bothered in the slightest.

      For if we do go down that path of ending Barnett because it’s unfair to the English electorate, then a whole new set of questions become apparent; the first would be, why should Scotland be in a Union if there is no real economic gain? Secondly, why share resources if one is really gaining nothing? The Union was meant to make Scotland economically better, but if one is simply getting back the equal value of what it is handing over (remember that the Tories want to do it on a ‘needs by basis requirement’), then what is the point? Why be in such a Union? The answer can’t be through the benefit of Defence and access to key markets. Scotland can make savings through defence (end Trident) and still access markets by trading with Europe and the rest of the world. Simply put …if we end Barnett, then what is the point of the Union?

      You could hear the alarm bells ringing in the Scottish Unionist head! In one Twitter argument, he found himself in the unenviable position where he wanted to crow about Scotland’s ills, but at the same time, found himself trying to justify the Barnett Formula where it must be maintained if ALL Unionists wanted to protect the Union. As we can now see, the Scots Unionist found himself in an ill-formed argument which in reality, all Scottish Unionists (including the Scottish Tories, Labour and Liberal parties) now find themselves in; they either agree with their southern counterparts in ending the Barnett Formula since it’s perceived ‘unfairness’ leads to England subsidising Scotland (even though Scotland subsidised the rUK for years), or they argue against them that Barnett is a necessity in protecting their Union (thus we obtain the real view behind the Scottish Tories, Labour and Liberal parties reason for maintaining Barnett).

      But if Barnett is ended …then questions over the economic case of the Union must be asked; why be in a Union that provides no real economic benefits? Why be mocked all the time when you have no control over 71% of the taxes sent south?

      It therefore can be said, that Barnett and GERS is a double-edged sword for Scottish Unionists. From now on, I will be asking them why they take great glee in Scotland’s ills, but if they do agree with ending Barnett …then why are we in a Union with no economic benefits?

    28. heedtracker says:

      We need Top 100 Scotch Cringer of the Week charts. At No.1 in the Scotch Cringer of the Week top 100 chart this week it’s BBC’s finest,

      Andrew NeilVerified account 1:45 pm – 19 Feb 2014
      @Masked_Scot @traquir @farrochie Who are all these horrible little cybernats? So brave – as they behind their anonymity. Scum of Scotland.

      Andrew Neil ?@afneil 23h23 hours ago
      Andrew Neil Retweeted Mark Sorsa-Leslie
      You’re right. U don’t have a deficit. Because Westminster sends you £15bn to cover gap betw tax paid/money spent

      Andrew Neil ?@afneil 22h22 hours ago
      Andrew Neil Retweeted Mark Sorsa-Leslie
      Think bond markets might have a different idea re funding deficit that size + it will bar you from EU. BUT Good Luck

    29. Tinto Chiel says:

      We need this on billboards along our major roads.

      Once again we are not worthy of Mr Cairns.

      Oh God, I just cringed!

    30. That’s good. Lets take the Express out first. It’s the weakest.

    31. carjamtic says:

      Sorry Chris,not funny…don’t forget,lots of people are….lacks toes intolerant…


    32. Juteman says:

      You can sort of understand Cringers that depend on it for employment. You can sort of understand the twisted reasoning that OO type Cringers use.
      What I can’t understand is the Cringer that seems ‘normal’ apart from their Cringe. Is it simply a lack of self confidence?

    33. Hello Hello How do you do
      We hate the GERS in Tory Blue
      We Hate Labour in Tory Red
      I’m votin’ SNP instead.

    34. Tam Jardine says:

      For anyone unfamiliar with Dr Seuss’ work, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas is basically a journey from No to Yes. Check it out if you can. It finishes (tweaked for our purposes):

      “They’re finding out now that no indy is coming!
      They’re just waking up! I know just what they’ll do!
      Their mouths will hang open a minute or two,
      Then the yessers down in Scotland will all cry BooHoo!
      That’s a noise,” grinned the Grinch, “That I simply MUST hear!”

      So he paused. And the Grinch put his hand to his ear.
      And he did hear a sound rising over the snow.
      It started in low. Then it started to grow.
      But the sound wasn’t sad! Why, this sound sounded merry!
      It couldn’t be so! But it WAS merry! VERY!

      He stared down at Scotland! The Grinch popped his eyes!
      Then he shook! What he saw was a shocking surprise!
      Every yes down in Scotland, the tall and the small,
      Was singing! Without any oil at all!

      He HADN’T stopped indy from coming! IT CAME!
      Somehow or other, it came just the same!
      And the Grinch, with his grinch-feet ice-cold in the snow,
      Stood puzzling and puzzling: “How could it be so?”
      “It came with out oil! It came without gas!”
      “It came without deficits, spreadsheets or graphs!”

      And he puzzled three hours, till his puzzler was sore.
      Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn’t before!
      “Maybe independence,” he thought, “doesn’t come from an excel spreadsheet.”
      “Maybe indepedence…perhaps…means a little bit more!”

      And what happened then? Well…in Scotland they say,
      That the Grinch’s small heart grew three sizes that day!

      And the minute his heart didn’t feel quite so tight,
      He whizzed with his graphs through the bright morning light,
      And he brought back the toys**(lying a few feet from his sleigh!)** And the food for the feast!
      And he, HE HIMSELF! The Grinch carved the roast beast!

    35. Swami Backverandah says:

      Since his uncomfortably twitching protestations that he is SO a journalist; “here is a fact: i am a columnist”, and “columnists are journalists”, whilst prostrating at the shrine of Daisley, I can’t help but think of him as Yooun McColumn.

    36. galamcennalath says:

      “Cultural cringe, … is an internalized inferiority complex that causes people in a country to dismiss their own culture as inferior to the cultures of other countries. It is closely related to the concept of colonial mentality …”

      “A colonial mentality … essentially refers to the colonized’s acceptance of the culture or doctrines of the colonizer as intrinsically more worthy or superior. The subject matter is quite controversial, divisive and debated.”

      There’s a cure! Independence! Then the Cringe afflicted will have to no choice but to muck in and make Scotland the country she should be. Or, they can emigrate to those places they feel associated with, but somehow I don’t quite think that would work out as they expected!

    37. Dan Huil says:

      Accurate, as ever, Chris.

      Movie sequel: Carrey on Cringing

    38. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Why should Wee Nicola admit GERS are shite?

      She’s an Ayr United fan.

      Anyway, everyone who watched BT Sport TV last night now knows GERS are shite, and highly-bigoted shite at that.

      Or, have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick again?

    39. Grouse Beater says:

      Wish those definitions would fit on a Tweet, Galamcennalath.

      “Cultural cringe, … is an internalized inferiority complex that causes people in a country to dismiss their own culture as inferior to the cultures of other countries. It is closely related to the concept of colonial mentality …”

      “A colonial mentality … essentially refers to the colonized’s acceptance of the culture or doctrines of the colonizer as intrinsically more worthy or superior. The subject matter is quite controversial, divisive and debated.”

      That cringe is deep seated. I’m convinced we lost self-determination by a small margin because it’s endemic.

    40. liz says:

      Great cartoon Chris, as usual nail on head.

      @JLT and this is indeed the dilemma for the PSB.

      I read a twitter exchange a while back where the Scottish BritNat was talking about wanting to remain in the union.

      An English person came on and said, but we don’t want you.

      The PSB tries to say but it’s because I love the union & the EP said, I don’t care.

      This is the problem they have created for themselves, England think we are a burden on them.

      On holiday an English guy shook my hand when I said I voted Yes.
      He said thank you for wanting to take care of yourselves

    41. alwi says:

      Do we have figures for the deficit for England? Or if we have the UK deficit, what’s left after taking 15 billion off? The figure I can find is 69 billion, so 15 seems OK to me. I’d be throwing that back at them.

    42. heedtracker says:

      Dr Seuss wrote a famous children poem, The places you’ll go. It comes to mind sometimes, as yoonster thugs and goons go UKOK berserk this week at Scots, sorry vile separatists and the Ligger’s scum of Scotland.

      You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You’re on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who’ll decide where to go.

    43. You’ll be getting hired as a sub by the Herald, Chris.

      BBC Radio News Where We Are GMS was at it again this morning.( Every breath you take.)
      Isabel Fraser (remember her?)hosted a discussion on GERS, at great pains at the start to point out that the Scottish Govt., and the SNP refused to attend. Who could blame them after the ‘Shite’ (your word Mr Cairns) churned out by the Unionist State Propaganda Wing this week?
      Instead we were treated to the pearls of the ubiquitous Kevin Walker, sorry Pringle, and a ‘former member of the SNP Communications Team, and speech writer for AS and NS, but now back into journalism’ Andrew something or other, who was eventually identified as Andy Collier.
      Ms Fraser started well, then it all fell away.
      She feels that we are where we are, that the GERS are the GERS, but that the conversation we should be having looking ahead to independence was how we grow the Scottish economy.
      This chap Collier ‘there can be no one more pro Independence that I’ (but not so much now that I’m looking for work in the Unionist Press) repeated the myth that the GERS fiction was the Scottish Government’s own figures. No they are not . Mr Collier.
      Perhaps you should read the actual document before you spout.
      The figures are based on Treasury, HMRC, OBR, and ONS stats, and there are glaring omissions, Treasury withheld stats, and arbitrary assumptions chucked into this Too Poor polemic.
      He feels that we should wait until the economy improves before we bid for Freedom? And Nicola agrees with him? Doubt it.
      On what planet is this man ?
      He knows of a SNP MP who would pull raw potatoes from the ground to survive if it meant Independence. Nice graphic description of the loony Nat, eh?
      He’s back in journalism now, so he has got to temper his desire for Independence with this sort of SNP not ready, SNP loons crap?
      Ms Fraser exhorted Kevin to describe how Scotland could grow its economy.
      It’s the economy , stupid.
      Pringle waffled the usual ‘invest in infrastructure, not paying our portion of the UK Defence budget, and Trident.’
      Now I’ve got you!
      Doing the maths in her head, Ms Fraser came up with a figure of ‘only’ £300 million.
      Not a lot of money in a UK of 65 million, Isabel, but more than chunk change in a country of 5.3. million.
      And that’s the trouble. Ms Fraser and the Unionists refuse to accept that Scotland could go it alone. There is no debate about the democratic deficit, the 59 versus 591, the argument that our country is always going to have policies and economics of parties for whom we did not vote foisted upon us, or, the ultimate argument which Kevin Pringle should have emphasised with anger, we are £15 billion in hawk (if we continue with the farce that GERS is gospel) because of Mundell’s (and the other Unionists’) handling of the UK economy and the economic failure of the British State.
      Isabel, come Independence, we shall be part of the EU in our own right, we shall look outwards on the world, and not be contributing towards HS2, London Crossrail, London Sewers, Third Runway, Trident, and so on. WE Scots will be trading with the world. An unelected Lord won’t be signing away our fishing rights.
      We will be part of a free market of 500, 000,000 customers; England won’t.
      We will attract inward investment. England won’t.
      We will at last know our true Revenue, and our Scottish Government, you know the one, a government of the people, by the people, for the people, and accountable to the people, of Scotland, will not be looking to Westminster for ‘permission’.
      There is absolutely no argument to continue as the ‘poor relation’, a colony of England, subservient, and demeaned by ProudScotsBut lackeys at every turn, especially now as England leaves the EU, and the Labour Party disappears up its own schism.
      WE are not too poor, BBC News Where You Are.
      Perhaps that’s the reason your viewing and listening figures are plummeting.
      How’s the bulk uplift of the mattresses in Govanhill going? I’ve tempted to nip over and take a wee snap.

    44. call me dave says:

      @Jack Collating

      Aye heard it all. 🙁

      “No bigger supporter of independence than me” says Collier BUT
      “Not now, wait till the economy improves”

      Oh well!

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      You couldn’t make it up!

      Today a BBC news reports the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland has ordered a review into how ethnic minorities and white working class people are treated by public services such as the NHS, schools, police and the courts.

      This, “Race Audit of Public Services”, is aimed at highlighting racial and socio-economic disparities and showing how outcomes differ due to background, class, gender and income. The Prime Minister also says the findings would, “shine a light on injustice”. Apparently a recent report found racial inequality remained, “entrenched”, in Britain.

      First of all, since when did the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland have the authority to speak on behalf of those parts of Britain that are not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland?

      Secondly this is the Prime Minister of a government that runs a bipartite United Kingdom that legislates on a basis of English Law which only applies to the Kingdom of England partner in the bipartite union. It then tags little bits onto the ends of that legislation to accommodate the other partner kingdom in the union.

      They actually treat the bipartite union of kingdoms as if it were a union of four countries but three of those countries actually comprise the Kingdom of England. Then they unequally devolve powers to those three non-England countries while they treat only England as the country of England was actually the United Kingdom.

      They not only legislate exclusivelyby wee add-ons to accommodate the other three countries but they then directly finance only the country of England as if it were the actual United Kingdom. To compound the inequality they then unequally evolving powers to the other three countries and funding them indirectly with block grants that they, Westminster, decide what the going rates will be.

      Then they have the temerity to bring in EVEL – English Votes For English Laws. By which they exclude the rest of the United Kingdom’s three countries from any say in what they decide are, “English, (the country and not the Kingdom), only matters.

      Yet every, “English”, thing is financed by the entire United Kingdom treasury with UK taxpayer’s money and most, “English Only”, functions carry negative or positive, “Barnett Consequentials”. Except, that is, when Westminster decides that the function is a United Kingdom, “National”, function such as, The National Galleries, National Museums, Ballet, Opera, Theatre. Et Al. Yet most so called National Functions, “Like the London Olympics”, really benefit only London and England.

      Perhaps MS May should look much closer to home for the causes of inequality caused by the typically English, “Class System”, as it affects only, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”, as she has no powers over the four non-UK of GB & NI parts of Britain.

      While doing so she also may keep in mind that the UK of GB & NI is in fact not a country but a Kingdom with only two very differently treated partner kingdoms.

      One in which her Tory Government commissioned a paper during the Scottish referendum that wrongly claimed, (and I quote the then Secretary of State for Scotland), “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”. Kingdom”.

    46. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Surprisingly, the Scottish Unionist eventually found himself warning the Englishman that ending the Barnett Formula would kill the Union. But for the Englishman, he was not bothered in the slightest.”

      Well that’s progress. Many yoons I’ve had the displeasure of dealing with only ever see ‘Britain’ as their country. That they are now beginning to realise (and recognise) that their country ‘Britain’ is actually a bipartite union of two countries/kingdoms is a step forward.

      How ironic it is. They call themselves ‘Unionists’ and it is that very word ‘Union’ that pulls the rug from under their notion that ‘Britain’ is a country; that word ‘Union’ actually tells them ‘Britain’ is NOT a country, ‘British’ is NOT their nationality, that their underlying nationality, however much it must make them cringe, is either as a ‘Scottish Unionist’ or an ‘English Unionist’. You can’t actually be a ‘British Unionist’.

      (Note: I am talking here of the 1707 Union and not the original use of the word with regards to Ireland. I doubt though that any in the Moronic Lodge – (c) Smallaxe – could tell us the difference).

    47. RTP says:

      Re GERS.I always thought these figures were from OBR and WM treasury figures but according to the North Britain union paper P&J I am wrong this is the reply from them.

      Thank you for your email in relation to the content of the P&J today re: the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) figures.

      I’m afraid you are incorrect to state that these are Westminster’s financial figures. As the name suggests these are figures taken from the Scottish Government and a snapshot of the Scottish economy, however they started out.

    48. Dan Huil says:

      Great post from Jack Collatin 10:52am.

      The britnat bbc is a cringe-making machine. Don’t pay the bbc tax.

    49. Richardinho says:

      If one accepts the GERS figures at face value they force the unionist into a difficult position: If Scotland’s economy is failing, who’s fault is that?
      If it’s the UK’s fault then that demolishes your entire position.

      If it’s the Scottish Government’s fault, then you have to believe that we Scots are somehow more incompetent than English people. In which case you have to explain why that is given that we are biologically pretty identical.

      The solution is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and self-deception: Hence the appearance of insanity.

    50. Kenny says:

      Jings! Come on everyboday! Time to lie back and think of not just England, but also the rUK….

      Let’s put the whole union state first and declare independence…

      We will not be doing it for ourselves, but for HM Treasury, you understand…

      How noble!

      What’s that? Hammond won’t pick up the phone? Something about an ALIEN INVASION ?!?

    51. Iain says:

      I just wish article 50 would be implemented as soon as possible. The pound will slump at least 40% all the big manufacturing companies will announce that they are leaving the UK and we can get on with the Indy referendum. Scotland’s future is an independent nation in the world’s largest single market, not being dragged down in a race to the bottom of the world’s worst places to live and work. The cringers need to grow a set and believe in Scotland. Britnattery, like the UK has no future. Time to move on.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “English Unionist”

      I was actually surprised to find this …

      …. a rather confused article which tries to frame England’s relationship with the Union in terms normally applied to Scotland and Ireland.

      In England, support for the Union has traditionally been high, while support for a separate English state has conversely been relatively low. However, the rise of English nationalism has seen a decrease in support for the United Kingdom, although English nationalism does not necessarily advocate English independence from the United Kingdom.

      The elephant in the room is that most English people don’t distinguish England, Britain, UK. I can’t speak for them, but I suspect most English nationalists are actually also supporters of a Greater England which in Scottish terms makes them Unionists.

      In Scotland and Ireland, Unionists and Nationalists are opposites. In England, because of the widespread belief that England really means UK, they can and probably often are both Unionist and Nationalist!

      The English Nationalist genuinely wishing to end the Union must be very rare indeed.

    53. Chic McGregor says:

      At the risk of being slightly age-ist (I’m allowed) I can’t leave out a particularly rotten pun:

      ‘How The Cringe Stole Ma’s X’.

      I’ll get my overalls and boots… (laying a concrete drive).

    54. galamcennalath says:

      Iain says:

      “I just wish article 50 would be implemented as soon as possible”

      I feel like that. Brexit will be shite for Scotland and the sooner most Scots see that, the better!

      The problem … May says … “I won’t be triggering Article 50 until I think that we have a UK approach and objectives for negotiations”.

      If she means that, then I would say nae chance.

      Nicola has set out five reasonable objectives already on Scotland’s behalf. I am certain they are far from the approach WM expect to take. Agreement on what to go to the EU table from across the UK will be impossible.

      Throw in Northern Ireland and Gibrartar too, and a consensus from all would be so close to status quo that we might as well forget Brexit and just all stay IN!

      However, I reckon WM does want to proceed.

      It is possible that the negotiation starting position of WM at Article 50 triggering will be so far removed from Scotland’s position that IndyRef2 will also be triggered. I think that would be reasonable.

      If WM begin from a position of saying we will seek xyz deal from the EU, and xyz is unacceptable before talks even start, it would be time for the SG to seek a mandate for parallel talks, both on the Indy settlement from the UK and Scotland’s continued seat in the EU.

    55. Chic McGregor says:

      Great post Jack Collatin.

      Couple of typos ‘than I’ rather than ‘that I’ a third of the way down and ‘I’m’ instead of ‘I’ve’ at the bottom.

      The Rev should maybe think about a best comment archive so gems like that don’t disappear down the cracks.

    56. Proud Cybernat says:

      As yet another Moronic Walk winds its way through Glasgow city, we find a message of thanks to our benevolent Unionist friends in England…

      Not quite sure that’ll have the desired effect.

    57. Molly says:

      Robert peffers
      I think Mrs May will find if you are treated by any public service somewhere on that computer system it asks ethnic background.

      The trouble is on the ones I’ve seen you can only put British . You can put your gender, your colour even your sexual orientation but due to the assimilation that goes on British you are.

      Just to be annoying I always go for the fourth option, ‘ prefer not to say’ to all of them.

    58. Dal Riata says:

      Truly laugh out loud! Excellent cartoon Mr. Cairns.

    59. Tam Jardine says:

      Can anyone tell me where the meta data can be found for the current GERS figures- I can’t see it on the website and am awaiting word back from the compilers of GERS.

      I have no doubt the figures for Scottish Government revenue (approx £16.1 billion) and Scottish Government expenditure (£40.5 billion) are accurate.

      The UK revenue from Scotland and spending (on our behalf) is what interests me.

      What seems to be missing in the whole debate is the shared spending “for our benefit” which generates economic activity and revenue outside Scotland. If X is spent on the house of commons resulting in y tax revenue for rUK, shifting X to Holyrood (for instance) keeps expenditure the same but increases Scottish tax revenue by y, whilst simultaneously changing rUK tax and spend.

      Unless I am misunderstanding methodology.

    60. heedtracker says:

      Another day in teamGB, BBC r4 currently pushing all new and exciting Melvin Bragg BBC series on The North of Britain. Its all about England.

      No mention of something called Scotland, as Scotland no longer exists BBC style but

      “Opening the first programme Melvyn Bragg says: “This is the story of the North, one that has the history of most countries. The area has twice the economy of Scotland, if it were a country in its own right it would be the eighth biggest economy in Europe, and it’s been the scene of the greatest revolution in the world – the industrial revolution;”

    61. Croompenstein says:

      Old Spike was bad for the Irish cringe or was it just a laugh?

    62. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Scotland – the best wee shitey country in the world.

      Spot on commentary.

      ‘We’ it is true to say, are a disgrace, for having remained in this faux ‘union’ for this length of time.

      The end can not come soon enough.

    63. Dal Riata says:

      Westminster will delay triggering Article 50, and delay, and delay… They are well aware that doing so will more or less guarantee IndyRef2, and with the possibility of a Yes result increasing since Brexit and the triggering of Article 50 increasing these Yes numbers into the realm of probability that Scotland will become independent.

      The ‘loss’ of Scotland means more to the Britnat Establishment than Brexit.

      With Brexit (including Scotland) they will suffer economic and financial shocks, but will ultimately recover to be whatever it is they want to be.

      A Brexit without Scotland on its way to being independent, or already independent, will leave rUK in a state of complete fucked-upness, with their walls of arrogance and superiority crashing round about them, never mind what it means to their ‘standing’ in the world.

      Beware the delaying of Article 50. The longer they can delay it, or even find a way to annul it, they will hope that the numbers desiring Scottish independence will recede. And, unfortunately, they could well be right.

    64. Chic MacGregor @ 12.06 pm
      I know , Chris. I should type in fifth and think in third; or is it the other way ’round?
      No more Mr News Where You Are Nice Guy.
      The longer they shovel , ahem, ordure, the more that we’ll throw it back in their face.
      Power to the people, Mon Brave.

    65. Ken500 says:

      The ‘Defict’ is Westminster policy imposed on Scotland. I.e, (approx) £1Billlion for Trident, £1Billion could be saved with a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink, Scotland pays (approx) £4Billion on loan repayments not borrowed or spent in Scotland, Scotland loses £3Billion? in tax evasion (whisky companies etc pay no tax). Scotland has lost £4Billion a year because Erstminster was taxing the Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. Total £13Billion+. The GERs figures are estimated. VAT receipts in Scotland are under estimated etc.

      Westminster refuses to give Scotland the powers to cut the Deficit. The rest of the UK deficit is £95Billion. They borrow the money. Why does Scotland have to repay back debts borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK because of Westminster policy.

      The UK debt is a result of illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Not money borrowed or spent in Scotland but Scotland has to pay back the debt. £300Billion Oil revenues have been squandered. Thatcher secretly and illegally spend the Oil revenues building up London on Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks etc. Westminster is destroying the world economy by Brexit.

    66. ScottishPsyche says:

      In examining our difficult relationship with oil it is worth asking how much the UK government has borrowed against oil reserves in Scottish waters.

      The murky world of Reserve Based Finance surely relies on Scotland being tied to the UK as security for those debts.

    67. Artyhetty says:

      Great image Chris, have shared. My favourite Dr. Suess was ‘The Sneetches’.


      Blimey, the North eh. I come from ‘the North’ and I would very much doubt that it has an economy worth twice as much as Scotland. Not only that, what area is he talking about because anywhere north of the Watford gap is north to southerners!

      The north of england was used, and abused, for industry and a few crumbs were thrown after the thatcher years to keep people compliant, but the ‘north’ has gained very little from it’s industrial past. The population is much bigger than that of Scotland depending on which ‘north” Bragg is talking about, so that thriving (doubtful) economy would be a tad stretched!

      The duke of Northumberland is mega rich with vast swathes of land, keeping the plebs out mostly, land which could be used for housing and community farming etc, but I am insane to even think that.

      Sorry, but the ‘north’ is in a way neither here nor there, part of england, (rule britnatia’ la la la) but out on an economic limb. Joblessness in the NE of england, being the highest in their britant UKOK, as usual. Cumbria has been a much treasured gift to UKOK for the nuclear power, people are glad of the jobs.

      Last time I was in Berwick it was depressing, no tourists really, pubs and hotels mostly shut down. When my bro was here from Australia, he said that Alnwick was ‘quite run down’ and was shocked at that.

      Let’s see what Bragg has to say in the programme, I suspect it is a feel good, be proud of your country type of thing, even though you have been totally shafted by UKOK for a few centuries!

    68. CameronB Brodie says:

      IMHO, the ‘Scottish cringe’ is a macro-social psycho-pathological state of mind, not unlike comorbidity in adolescents and characterised by anxieties over risk/protection and continuity/discontinuity. This is a state of mind engendered by three centuries of colonial domination.

      As such, macro-level intervention is required to rid us of the British curse. Simples.


    69. Proud Cybernat says:

      Much of the BritNat mentality is like the wee minion at school during a playground fight someone is having wi’ the school bully. The school bully is getting the better of some poor sod who refused to give him his dinner money. As they roll around the dirt, the wee minion is egging the bully on and getting a few fly kicks of his own into the victim’s body.

      Just GREAT to be in the bully’s gang. Makes you feel big and tough yourself so it does, especially when you can get a few fly kicks of your own in.

      I’ll leave the reader to ponder who plays which role in the above scenario.

    70. heedtracker says:

      Artyhetty says:


      The North is nice though, I love it personally. Its extremely nice if you’re middle and upper middle class. Isn’t everywhere, where at least half the population are slave wage slaves? Which makes it like Scotland too. They did get royally fcuked by Thatcherites in London toon, as they de-industrialised the North just as hard as they screwed Scotland, like Tyneside ship building, that Sting grew up next to. New Labour turned their backs to the North and now they’re getting bullshitted toryboy style with the Power House o the North. When unionist in the North argued vote NO for solidarity with them, they had the strongest and probably only pro NO case in 2014.

      Melvin’s just another BBC toryboy so it be all good news from the North, with lots of wafflin toyboys like Rory the Tory Stewart, and his cairn of NO and hands around the world for NO stuff. That gimp also had his own BBC thing about how there actually is now no border because there never was a Scotland/England border, just the border middle lands between Embro and the big English northern metropolises.

      Here’s Rory the tory’s pure, classic, unadulterated Britnat tory BBC propaganda, BBC classed Factual, Border Country: The Story of Britain’s Lost Middleland … › Factual › History
      30 Mar 2014 –

    71. McDuff says:

      The GERS figures are rubbish as the Rev has aptly demonstrated many times, their origins alone render them suspect.
      But the thing that stands out for me is that if we are being subsidised by England to the tune of £8 billion a year why did Westminster do everything short of military action to prevent us from leaving the Union.
      Consider the impact £8 billion a year would have on the crisis ridden English NHS and the positive effect on the English people, yet they prefer to give it away to whining ungrateful Scots. It doesn`t make sense. Of the real reason is as with the BBC we subsidise England.

    72. galamcennalath says:

      Tam Jardine says:

      “The UK revenue from Scotland and spending (on our behalf) is what interests me.”

      Yes. Scottish revenue is being allocated to England I have no doubt. Also, Scottish money spent elsewhere is of dubious value to Scotland, however should it generate revenue, we will see none of it.

      £68.6bn Total spend made up from …

      £23.6bn Social protection
      £12.2bn Health
      £7.9bn Education
      £2.8bn Policing
      -£3.5bn Defence
      ~£4.0bn Debt interest

      That leaves £16.6bn spend allocated to Scotland. That is a very BIG BLACK HOLE in the SPENDING figures. Wonder what it could be? Anyone know?

      There has been a lot of GERS talk and damn few hard figures. When it comes to numbers, I want to see the raw data. I don’t want someone else’s summary and assessment first.

    73. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. As I keep saying, it all boils down to semiotics, worms, ethics, habitus, de-familiarisation and symbolic violence.

      From Intentional Injustice to Symbolic Violence:
      A Case-Study of Japanese Elites

      The principle underlying Equality of Opportunity requires that social positions are formally equally available to everyone in a given society.1 This principle implies that social inequality originates from the exclusion of one or more specific groups of people from the acquisition of one or more social positions on the basis of one or more grounds. When we reflect upon the situation of persisting gender inequality, racism, and discrimination against sexual minorities, among other examples of inequality, the process of inclusion through Equality of Opportunity may be seen to still require considerable effort to bring it to fruition. In this paper, I would like to address a substantive aspect of social inequality, namely the distinction between the elite and the masses, between experts and laymen, that I suggest framing as the inequality existing between a meritocratic elite, defined in part by its higher level of education, and a relatively less well-educated middle class that is effectively excluded from the benefits enjoyed by the elite. This relatively new form of social inequality originated particularly from the inclusive nature of social competitions in post-industrial society. Since the 1970s, Equality of Opportunity has been re-interpreted as Fair Equality of Opportunity (FEO) whereby ‘equally talented people have an equal chance to attain social positions’,2 and FEO has been used to justify a range of integrative social policies.

      IMHO, Scots will only enjoy Fair Equality of Opportunity within the global community, once we are able to access our right to development. Of course, the British state should be doing all in it’s power to ensure such a state of affair comes about. Not to do so is unethical, frankly.

    74. Iain More says:

      Spot on though I suppose it could any number of so called newspapers and not just the Daily Express that you used.

      Missed the goggle box though as they are equally culpable in the creation of the Dystopian Yoon nightmare movie that is GERS!

    75. mike d says:

      Robert Louis 8.37 am. Absolutely spot on, nobody with an ounce of intelligence could argue against those facts,other than a blind bigoted Scotland hating unionist scumbag.

    76. call me dave says:

      Theresa May ‘can trigger Brexit without Parliament’

    77. Alex Clark says:


      That leaves £16.6bn spend allocated to Scotland. That is a very BIG BLACK HOLE in the SPENDING figures. Wonder what it could be? Anyone know?

      That £16.6bn is Scotlands cost of “pooling and sharing” with the UK.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      @call me dave at 5:07

      Also from the article you highlighted …

      “Meanwhile, former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith has suggested Britain could rely on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules to trade with the European Union (EU) following Brexit.

      The prominent Brexiteer said the UK should not necessarily seek to remain a member of the single market as such a move would involve surrendering control to Brussels”

      …. the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Madness it truly is! Scotland needs to part company with these fools.

      Even if that means we, as part of the EU, end up trading with rUK with WTO rules.

    79. galamcennalath says:

      Dal Riata says:
      at 1:33 pm

      “The ‘loss’ of Scotland means more to the Britnat Establishment than Brexit”

      … without a doubt. IMO the majority of the BritNat Establishment didn’t want, nor did they expect, Brexit to happen. Only the loony fringe wanted Little England cut off from all her near neighbours keeping immigrants out.

      However, we are where we are … or rather the BritNat Establishment is where it is, saddled with a Leave vote and not sure what to do next.

      I really don’t think they can ‘keep’ Scotland and proceed with Brexit.

      An EU deal so soft that it appeases the SG and averts IndyRef2 won’t be acceptable to those driving Brexit. On the other hand, anything beyond the SG’s minimum five points, won’t be acceptable to the SG and IndyRef2 follows.

    80. Brian Powell says:

      There is something about this that makes me think of an event at the Edinburgh Book Festival.

      The event was discussing Scotland and David Torrance was chairing, with effectively all Unionist or anti-SNP panel.

      Mike Small, from Bella Caledonia, yes split the vote B Caledonia Mike Small, was in the audience. That’s where the ‘pro-Indy voice’ was, just part of the audience.

      SNP is the Government of Scotland, 56 MPs in Westminster and speaking for us in the EU, but the participation for Scotland was SNP-unfriendly Mike Small in the audience.

      After those ironies follows this irony, he was arguing that Women for Independence was not an SNP front.

      After being part of a Unionist supported vote splitting campaign that led to a reduction of SNP MSPs M Small was reduced to being part of the audience.

      The Cringe was on the platform but it is ably supported by pro-Ind commentators who can’t see a strong SNP is the clearest path to Independence.

    81. Macbeda says:

      Maybe a stupid question.

      Exactly what revenues does the Scottish Government actually directly collect?

    82. Tinto Chiel says:

      Brian Powell: “The event was discussing Scotland and David Torrance was chairing, with effectively all Unionist or anti-SNP panel.”

      Yes, Brian, like most events in Edinburgh during the Festival, it’s all about Oxbridge Footlight types and the Establishment scent-marking their Scotland Region, as heedtracker would say.

      Great living in The Last Colony, isn’t it?

      Not for much longer, though, Cringers excepted.

    83. galamcennalath says:

      Brian Powell says:

      “pro-Ind commentators who can’t see a strong SNP is the clearest path to Independence.”


      Without the SNP there will be no independence.

      Anyone attacking the SNP, whether Yes or No, is damaging our chance to win independence.

      If you disagree with the SNP, but support independence, this is not the time to voice your opinions. There will be lots of time for party politics post Indy!

      IMO that is the harsh reality. Consider the way the Unionist behave, they play by no rules. We have problems enough with them and do not need internal fighting in our ranks.

    84. Croompenstein says:

      @Macbeda –

      Exactly what revenues does the Scottish Government actually directly collect?

      Well according to cringey cringeo Fraser Nelson, them all 🙂

    85. Cactus says:

      Hi call me dave @ 5:07

      Re your archived link above and below:

      “Under my leadership (Omen Smith), Labour will press for whatever final deal she (Termay), Boris Johnson, Liam Fox and David Davis come up with to be put to the British people, either in a second referendum or at a general election.”

      Is that not quite a bizarre statement from OS?

      It’s not in your control to decide eitherway Smith. The Conservatives are the party in ‘power’ in England / Wales for the foreseeable future, not Labour. The EU ref leave-max result stands for youse. Lessons must be learned by you.

      There will be no second EU referendum or snap general election called, the people will not allow it, SO get used to it.. sssonny.

      There will, however, be a second Scottish independence referendum (and soon), SO get used to that.. ssson 🙂

      Cheers cmd and excellent art CC.. Mr J. Carrey would say, “Smokin’!”
      “I can lick 30 tigers today” is a favourite Seusstoon of mine.

      It’s Saturday evening Scotland, get yourselves out there and in amongst it!

    86. Tinto Chiel says:

      Cactus: independence for Scotland?

      Carrey voice to mirror: “Somebody stop me!”

    87. bugsbunny says:

      Chris, is that a cartoon of Archie MacPherson?

    88. Tam Jardine says:


      Good post. We are thinking along the same lines. What, for example is the economic benefit of defence spending in our name, when we are barely defended. £3 billion for what? How much tax revenue does that generate?

    89. Tam Jardine says:


      “Maybe a stupid question.

      Exactly what revenues does the Scottish Government actually directly collect?”

      Just over £16billion

    90. Macbeda says:

      @ Tam Jardine

      That’s the amount.

      I actually wanted to know what.

    91. Iain More says:

      Are the BBC slipping up? A bridge collapses over a motorway in England and they still haven’t blamed us in Scotland for it yet or did I miss something?

    92. pipinghot says:

      Must have been a Scottish lorry.

    93. Robert Peffers says:

      galamcennalath says: 27 August, 2016 at 3:58 pm:

      ” … £68.6bn Total spend made up from …
      £23.6bn Social protection
      £12.2bn Health
      £7.9bn Education
      £2.8bn Policing
      -£3.5bn Defence
      ~£4.0bn Debt interest

      That’s just a drop in the ocean, galamcennalath.

      If something is deemed by Westminster as, “National”, then everyone in the UK pays towards it. That includes such as the National Museums, National Galleries, National Theatres, National Ballet, National Orchestra, National Opera, The Grace & Favour Residences, The London Dome, such things as the Shakespeare Theatre, The London Olympics and Stadium, Many London Monuments, The Greenwich Observatory, The London Air, Rail and Bus Terminals, The Chunnel and its infrastructure, The London Cross Rail System, High Speed rail network and we all have to not only pay for the new London Sewerage System but as part of the deal every household in the London and SE region got a rebate on their annual water and sewerage bills paid for by us.

      When you read those articles that state something like, ” The Painting of ****** painted by English artist *** ******** has been prevented from being sold to the USA and will now go on display in the National Gallery.

      Get the idea now, galamcennalath? Remember, though, that when Glasgow held the Commonwealth Games it was only Scots who stumped up for them. There are many. many more hidden ways of the entire United Kingdom taxpayers stumping up to make London a great tourist attraction and only London, and to a lesser extent England, that sees any benefits from the rest of the UK’s hard earned cash.

    94. Jim Stirling says:

      While few if any in the independence camp give the GERS figures anything other than the contempt they deserve. Unfortunately the financial debate played a significant part in distracting and deluding the sheep,and may well have been the single most significant reason for many fence sitters to jump to the no side.

      When I say debate I really mean an overwhelming round the clock mainstream media assault on the Scottish electorate , using every dirty trick in their book , straight up lies, half-truths, non-reporting of the other side never challenging the unionist line no matter absurd it may have been .

      So given its effectiveness in the past it is no surprise that they loading up their “ammo” for a renewed assault. I am and always will be a seeker of independence for my country, however I must say I am starting to lose hope , for in the end I fear that simply too many on the no side are indeed too stupid, too gullible and dare I say too selfish to look beyond their own noses

    95. Another Union Dividend says:

      Usually out on the razzle on Saturday nights so didn’t realise that BBC TV does not have any 10 pm news from Scotland.

      Even Radio Shortbread earlier only had news of traffic disruption south of London.

      Another Union Dividend

    96. Another Union Dividend says:

      Sunday Herald looks a good read tomorrow.

      I am sure BBC / Sky paper reviews will feature this… not.

    97. Clydebuilt says:

      Attacking the SNP is the job of Unionist Journalists & the BBC…….. Any YES supporter attacking the SNP is doing the job of the Unionist Establishment.

    98. Sinky says:

      English NHS in danger of collapse and English GCE GCSE results have shown a significant fall – down to the lowest level since 2008 yet English yoons living in Scotland write daily letters to Scottish press saying SNP government is a disaster.

      Time we kept pointing out to BBC/ newspapers that SNP Scottish government record is far better than Tory England or Labour riun Wales.

    99. heedtracker says:

      Sunday Times go nuts over “black hole” Scotland again and Corbyn gets a right good Murdoch monstering too. Why teamGB’s hard core conservatives are piling in with the red tories to get JC, is another UKOK mystery. Its not.


      Andrew Neil ?@afneil 4h4 hours ago
      Andrew Neil Retweeted Kenny Anderson
      Dunno. I’m the one arguing Scotland is not a basket case.


      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq 15h15 hours ago
      Kenny Farquharson Retweeted CommonSpace
      Disquieting analysis of Scot Govt economics from an expert often cited by the SNP.


      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 2h2 hours ago
      Team Corbyn shows how to use the media to amplify bad stories and pursue grudges.

      and don’t have nightmares, silly old Dunc’s RT a Torygraph cartoon of Labour car crashing into a tree from 1979. The red tory shall lie with the blue tory. Strange days.

      Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
      Steven Winstone ?@steven_winstone 15h15 hours ago
      Some cartoons are now even more apt than they were nearly 40 years ago…. #labour #JeremyCorbyn

    100. kat hamilton says:

      time these lies were exposed to all and sundry through bill boards everywhere with scotlands true standing,i.e. the wealthiest part of the uk after london and s.e..that never gets an airing, and naming all the black hole money pit that we are currently paying, crossrail, buck palace, house of lords..time we stopped playing nice and being on the defensive when we see these lies..fraid derek mackay did himself no good on scotland tonight replying to gers figures accusations..start by saying who has the control of powers, 70pc tax and 85 welfare still at wm…tougher, grittier responses and get the public aware of this sham…

    101. Gary45% says:

      I think article 50 is something the Westminster bubble hopes will simply go away.
      Seriously for decades successive Westminster Governments have lied to, then “blinkered the nation” relaying on the fact the nation would simply forget what was promised, after all “politics are boring have some tea and shortbread.”
      Some in Scotland have always been aware to the Empire ways of control, but thanks to the internet we now have a recordable source of storing facts etc.
      WE are not going away.
      Indy Ref 2 Tick Tock.
      Elgin a new shire of the Empire.

    102. Ken500 says:

      Dugdale and Murray on the way out. Labour in chaos. Along with the Tories, LibDems, UKIP and Greens. Brexit chaos. Lucas wants another Westminster electoral system for an alliance to get more Labour MP’s elected in Scotland. The present electoral systems are bad enough in Scotland. The 2nd rate rejects regurgitate.

      T. May and the Tories are responsible for a Bridge falling down. T. May wants an audit in inequality. To find out why the Tories are sanctioning and starving vulnerable people. The Brexit chaos continues. Damaging the world economy, The US/UK andFrance continue bombing the Middle East causing a migration crisis in Europe. Westminster spends nearly 10% of taxes raises on Defence. (£40Billion) 25% of Defence spending on Trident.

      The rest of the UK raises £461Billion in taxes and borrows and spends £95Billion. Dumps £12Billion on Scotland. Including Trident and £4Billion loan repayments. Destroyed the Oil sector. Losing thousands of jobs. Westminster debt in the rest of the UK Is 1/5 – 20%.

      The Tories committed electoral fraud in 29 seats to get elected with a majority of 12. The Tories want out of the EU so they can tax evade.

    103. louis.b.argyll says:

      War, greed, misery, obscene wealth, environmental disaster, racism.

      Who’s been in charge while we failed to avoid stuff that’s bad?


      Nothing has changed in 200years.

    104. Capella says:

      @ another union dividend -I was wondering why the BBC news app didn’t have the Scottish Sunday papers review. That Sunday Herald front page explains it. Thanks.

    105. Ken500 says:

      The Cuthberts are publishing mis information. The U.K. Deficit is £75Billion + a £20Billion black hole. The difference in what the UK Treasury predicted is raised and actually raised. The annual ‘budget’ deficit. The tax evasion in the UK or Defence spending (Trident) The social care, Uni student support etc, mitigated ‘bedroom tax’ or increased nursery care and welfare cuts mitigation in Scotland. Scotland can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink to cut consumption and welfare costs by the Police, SNHS etc. Complaining about the State of the Scottish economy which actually leads back to Thatcher. Illegally and secretly taking the equivalent of £Billion of Oil revenues out of Scotland and destroying the Scottish economy. Shutting most manufacturing facility and no investment. Then lying about it.

      The SNP have only been in majority power in Scotland for 5 years. It is the (Unionist/Green local authorities who spend and waste £Million/Billions on grotesque project that the majority do not want and then claim there is no funding for essential services. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. ACC, GCC, ECC. May 2017.

      The Trams (subsidised) and cheaper than the buses. £8 return. Buses £12 return. Travellers can use their bus passes and are quicker to the Airport. Glasgow Airport bus service is one of the best in the world. 15/20 mins into the City centre. They want to build a rail link costing £Millions.

      ACC are building a grotesque project costing £Millions. A concrete jungle in the City centre causing traffic chaos. The majority want open spaces and pedestrianisation. They refused a gift of £80million The UTG project would have pedestrianised the City centre, with an exit to the Green. A ‘white elephant’ road to nowhere, wasting £Millions. They plan to spend £300million on a Conference Centre.The present one is use on average once a month and subsidised with public money.

      Claiming there is too much public spending in Scotland and not considering the underspending on the NHS in England where they are trying to privatise the NHS. £20Billion cuts. The Scottish Gov increased SNHS spending.

      No mention of the Irish Rep (illegal? within the EU) Corp tax rate. The EU is going after the American multi nationals who tax evade. Apple, Starbucks etc. The reason the Tories wanted out of the EU to tax evade. Not enforce the UK tax laws. HMRC not fit for purpose. A shambles. The UK Treasury taxed the Oil sector at 60/80% when the price has fallen 75%. Losing thousand of jobs.

      No mention of the NI raising £15Billion in tax and getting another £10Billion. According to a WOS tweet. Or raising £28Billion (2million pop) and getting another £14Billion = £42Billion on the UK Gov website. Norwegian level of funding for Unionist votes in Westminster. Although Westminster did (illegally) Partition Ireland causing havoc. Will they reunite?

    106. louis.b.argyll says:

      Its pathetic, really.

      Our identity and our potential, have been CONTINUALLY UNDERMINED by the SAME ESTABLISHMENTS (aristocracy, global companies, remote parliaments) since the SIXTEENTH CENTURY.

      Time to move forward, be brave, confident in our abilities, accepting natural challenges without added suppression of someone else’s values.


    107. Another Union Dividend says:

      Sinky says at 10:46 pm

      “English NHS in danger of collapse and English GCE GCSE results have shown a significant fall – down to the lowest level since 2008 yet English yoons living in Scotland write daily letters to Scottish press saying SNP government is a disaster.”

      Surely you don’t mean Martin Redfern, Keith Howell ect?

      In a previous life in financial services I came across those types who sold expensive properties down south and came here for a better quality of life.

      They have every right to hold our government to account but at least once they might recognise that our public services such as free tuition fees for their kids, more child care, free prescriptions, better health and education services are in a far better state than in England under the Tories or in Wales under Labour.

      They attack the SNP as a way to attack independence and we need more letter writers pointing out our better services.

    108. louis.b.argyll says:

      Looking at the c1899 ABC children’s book..from link on twitter

      Wow! Sad racism, worst I’ve seen.

      Craaaazy thing is, these people


    109. Valerie says:

      I keep saying if the circs this time don’t deliver an Indy result, nothing ever will, and ill be hanging up my canvassing trainers.

      Check out Lord Ashcroft polling figures -horror story

    110. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Our identity and our potential, have been CONTINUALLY UNDERMINED by the SAME ESTABLISHMENTS (aristocracy, global companies, remote parliaments) since the SIXTEENTH CENTURY.”

      Yes Louis and add the behemoth “National” projects which the Establishment builds for the benefit of the SE at our expense, as R Peffers has reminded us.

      It’s all part of the cultural sledgehammer it’s employed for centuries to snuil and demoralise us : “Look on my Works, ye Sweaties, and despair!”

      Unfortunately it seems blind to the colossal wreck approaching in the form of Brexit.

      And all this with the National Debt at £1.6 Trillion.

      What happens when we keep all the proceeds from oil, whisky, luxury foods, computer software, etc. and stop paying for Trident, Defence and Orgasmatronic Londinium Projects after independence? And cheerio too to our share of the ND if we don’t share the Pound Sterling.

      Who’s the economic basket case again?

      It’s so frustrating that many Scots can’t see the true position.

    111. mike d says:

      I think Nicola needs to encourage eu migration to Scotland before the next indy ref. Thls has to be done to offset the English unionist vote in Scotland,or we will lose the next referendum.simples!

    112. scottieDog says:

      No doubt the cuthberts are very analytical in revealing the present situation. They show concern about welfare spending.

      What we need to realise that the highest tax contributions come from the region’s associated with banking which was the biggest beneficiary of the huge deficits run post 2008.

      Remember a govt sector deficit puts the rest of the economy in surplus but this surplus was directed at the city.

      Can’t belive no none from snp is firing back with this. Very poor.

    113. Nana says:

      Morning everyone. I posted a heap of links on off topic which will probably take a while to appear. Some Scottish stuff and an interesting Ted talk by Yanis Varoufakis.

      Still trawling to see what I missed while I’ve been away.

    114. carjamtic says:


      Agree with what you just said.

      WOW…Harsh Reality.

      What can we do about,No Voters.

      “What if we were smiling and running into their arms ? Would they see then,what we see now ?”

      “People soften by ‘forced’ reflection…but is the death of UKOK enough ?”

      These figures are the scariest I have ever seen….SLab supporters really,really need to think about this.


    115. louis.b.argyll says:

      Tinto Chiel, exactly.

      For many nations, within the UK, it should be a case of ‘who’, do ‘our efforts’ benefit.

      Take pension provision for example. How easy is it for a scheme to be abused? Someone runs away with the money and the regulators ask their school chums what should be done about it…

      If there is a deficit of success then that is being stolen.

      A century of accounting deceit by those who make decisions on our behalf, allowed Scotland’s prosperity to slip through our fingers.

      It’s a no-brainer they say.

    116. Breeks says:

      I’m getting more and more curious about this Article 50. It seems incredible that such titanic issues like a member state exiting Europe can be held in abeyance by such an ostensibly minor technicality. You might even call it frivolous, though clearly, it is not.

      It is also worth remembering that triggering article 50 begins negotiations, but Westminster also has the “nuclear option” of exiting Europe with negotiation. That would carry dire consequences for all, and I think it’s safe to assume that Westminster has enough dire consequences to juggle already.

      I don’t find Westminster’s state of disorder curious, quite the reverse. It makes complete sense. They need a miracle, and seaches for such phenomena can be long and fruitless. Europe however seems remarkably patient while Westminster tries to sort itself out, despite the unspoken refief that the “difficult” one is leaving the party.

      I don’t believe for a moment that Article 50 is staying their hand. I am quite sure the EU could put an inordinate amount of pressure on the UK government to force the pace if that was needed. I rather suspect they realise that the UK economy in a near fatal tailspin is not in anyone’s best interests.

      I also wonder whether that is also a consideration at Bute House. Not that the Footsie loses a few points, but that the UK economy really is circling the drain, and nobody wants to carry the can for taking it over the brink.

      Scotland has an emergency quick release through UDI or repealing the Act of Union, UK has a quick release by repealing the 1972 European Communities Act, and while I don’t know what emergency release position the EU might have, I feel sure they do have one. They might for example trigger their own Article 50’s, exit Europe en-masse and reconstitute a new EU without the UK. I know, it would’t be that, but you can be sure 27 nations will not be held hostage to UK procrastination indefinitely.

      Article 50 has everybody treading water. The big question is who’s toes are first to touch the bottom.

    117. Grouse Beater says:

      Some weekend reading:

      It’s a classic:
      Unionist round up:

    118. galamcennalath says:

      carjamtic says:

      “SLab supporters really,really need to think about this.”

      You would have thought so. A Tory WM majority like the poll suggests should terrify anyone on the centre and left. Especially when the Tories have shifted further right,

      Imagine if, at IndyRef1 the polls had been suggesting that! Instead they were still predicting a Labour win.

      However, a good chunk of residual SLab voters are hardcore Unionists – so committed to the Union that some voted Tory at Holyrood and give 2nd preferences to Tories at council byelections.

      There is no doubt that for the majority of Scots, a strong Tory government in WM is a distinct pro Indy bonus when they are weighing up Yes or No. So long may the polls show this!

      The folks who really need targeted are the 20-40% who either never vote, or don’t always vote. I would suggest that they have most to lose from Tories and Brexit.

    119. Ken500 says:

      Why are the Cuthbert’s using flawed figures i.e. a UK £75Billion deficit. There is a £20Billion annual black hole, which never gets addressed. Taxes not realised. A UK gov £20Billion cut in ENHS by 2020. Blaming the SNP Gov for Unionist council borrowing and overspending on grotesque, mismanaged projects. Then claiming there is not enough for essential services.

      No mention of the UK illegal wars, tax evasion or banking fraud. National debt. Or inequality. The Tories want an audit on inequality. The Tories are sanctioning the vulnerable causing the inequality.

      The Scottish Gov spending on essential services saves money, and invests in the economy. Tuition fees, mitigating the ‘bedroom tax’ and welfare budget cuts, increased nursery sending, bus passes, social care etc. One Police Force etc.

      It is not welfare spending that needs addressed. It is Unionist council spending on no ‘business case’ mismanaged projects against the majority wishes. Wasting public money.

    120. Tinto Chiel says:

      Good to see you back, Nana. We need those links. Heading off to O/T now.

      Hope you’ve been limbering up with some Beethoven piano sonatas.

    121. Grouse Beater says:

      Breeks: “The big question is who’s toes are first to touch the bottom.”

      Sexual perversity games are as yesterday as leaving your cars keys in a dish at the couple’s party. 🙂

    122. louis.b.argyll says:

      Mike 9.31..
      I’d say we need EU migrants to boost economic output..while we re-skill the workforce and GUIDE school-leavers towards future hi-tech and industrial opportunities.

      That won’t happen WITHIN the UK.

    123. Grouse Beater says:

      Louise Argyll: I’d say we need EU migrants to boost economic output.That won’t happen WITHIN the UK.

      It can’t be a coincidence that England joins its old partner in crime, the USA, turning inwards and advocating isolationism as the way forward. That way lie wars.

    124. Les Wilson says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      I do not think we would want to use Sterling per se, I think pegged to basket of currencies would be a far safer idea for us.
      They can beg all they want…..

    125. Valerie says:


      Merkel is meeting leaders of 5 countries next week. There is far more going on, than we will see or hear about as per, you have to search for it.

      Each of those 27 countries have been constructing their list of demands and red lines, and no doubt Merkel needs a feel for the majority view on that.

      The financial impact is slowly being felt, it’s a slide into the abyss, that there is no way to climb out of, as you say, UK is circling the drain. However, the Britnats will keep bullshitting that the impact is negligible. USA has just downgraded their growth forecast.

      I can’t see the EU countries sitting quietly, and expect to see things heating up shortly, when the new guy starts (Barnier?)

      As a member, I’m a bit perplexed at SNP right now, but only hope they are keeping their powder dry. The usual voices on the hard Left are now vocal about SNP being a bit rubbish.

    126. Nana says:

      Re Gers & apologies if this has already been linked to but if you type Niall Aslen Gers into google there are a number of pdf documents on gers

      The big lie and The great deception

      Been away so I’m not sure what has been referred to already

    127. louis.b.argyll says:

      Grouse Beater..

      Yes, the ‘coincidences’ that have brought us to where we are now, have been exposed as a pattern of lies to facilitate greed.

      Most of the human race isn’t hiding behind a facade.

    128. Chic McGregor says:

      Re Ashcroft Polls, I can hear Kezia rehearsing already
      “A big boy done it and stayed where he wis.”

    129. Breeks says:

      Valerie @11:14am

      I’ve said a couple of times that the SNP should be publishing 2 manifestos, but maybe that isn’t enough.

      As time goes on, I think more and more that YES should have politicised itself into a formal party. I don’t know, maybe it still should. It would have helped greatly with second preference votes in STV elections, it would have kept the YES people and machinery ticking over nicely, and it would have permitted a different perspective to exist to compliment the SNP’s perspective which, assuming of course it didn’t spawn a civil war, would fuel positive and progressive discussions. At the very least, logically, you’d expect 2 in 5 seats on any panel to be pro Indy, rather than 1 in 5.

      It might be a paradoxical thing to say, but perhaps we are taking too narrow a view of independence. It is almost always presented to the Scottish electorate as the political objective of a single political party, (or even a single person in the case of Alex Salmond), against which all other political parties and news agencies are steadfastly opposed.

      That’s not how I see it. My desire for Scottish Independence was always in me wanting to come out; it was categorically never some notion instilled in my by the SNP or anybody else.

      I wonder sometimes whether that’s what Nicola means about the country telling her it’s time for another Indyref. It’s not some polling percentage she needs as a threshold, it’s a broader opinion; not just politicians wanting independence, but teachers, firemen, shop workers, office workers, builders, drivers, farmers… all of us.

      Instead of bemoaning the performance of the SNP, and failure to deliver, maybe its ourselves, us “civvies” who need to raise our game and stop leaving everything down to our politicians. It’s us who will benefit from Independence, not just the select few who get a comfy seat in Holyrood.

      I suspect it would also be much more difficult for the media to trash a civic, apolitical demand for independence than it is to cheaply besmirch a single political party’s agenda.

      “So what did you do in the war Grandpa?”

      “Well, I stopped paying for my TV licence and never bought the Daily Record. That really showed ’em…..”

      Hmmm. That isn’t really doing enough. Is it? Not to win back our sovereignty and self respect…

    130. Smallaxe says:

      @ Breeks:

      I hope that you look back and see my comment. I have read your
      post twice and I cannot disagree with one word,please post this again on a current thread as I think it is very relevant.

      Your view’s were written in a very clear and understandable way,no French,Latin or any words that had to be looked up in a
      dictionary making them very readable to anyone (myself included) who had only a basic comprehensive school education.

      We on Wings need more of this plain and honest writing in my
      humble opinion.Thank you.Peace

    131. K1 says:

      ‘We on Wings need more of this plain and honest writing in my
      humble opinion.’

      Quite so…well said Smallaxe 🙂

    132. Smallaxe says:

      Hi K1,

      Thanks for getting what I meant K1,common words for common people,thats what I imagine voters to be.Peace and Love.

    133. Tam Jardine says:


      My understanding is that taxes levied directly by the Scottish Government or councils during 2015-2016 were as follows

      Council Tax £2,122m
      Non-Domestic Rates £1916m
      Stamp Duty Land Tax £416m
      Landfill tax £147m

      So taxes raised during 2015-2016 totalled £4.6 billion.

      The Scotland Act 2016 has given in addition control over Air Passenger Duty and the Aggregates Levy. Also devolved now is the ability to set Income Tax rates and bands on non-savings and non-dividend income.

      The VAT devolution doesn’t seem to me to be anything more than just a block grant tweak- they can’t change the rates.

      Although these figures are meaningless for 2015-2016 as Scotland did not levy these taxes or receive anything from them, the figures supplied in GERS are:
      APD £275m
      Aggregates Levy £53m
      Income Tax: £11,214m

      So the Scotland Act appears to grant control over £16 billion of taxes.

    134. Tam Jardine says:

      Breeks 2.37pm

      Great post.

    135. Peter Clive says:

      The whole GERS discussion with yoons makes me imagine this sort of encounter in a bar …

    136. Peter Clive says:

      Ultimately it’s all about how we make sure we win Indeyref 2

    137. Breeks says:

      Thanks for the kind words Smallaxe and Tam.

      And Peter, I found your stuff a good read also.

      As regards winning, I had one idea on car stickers. Building on the success of YES iconography, I thought about something more coordinated. Something along the lines of “I’m a YES _____ (insert your own profession or interest) and have a link to a YES website which sets out the Indy arguments specific to that occupation.

      For example, say “I’m a YES Farmer”, and have a link to page outlining what happens for and againsts farmers on independence. What you gain, what you lose…

      Stickers would be easy, but there’d be a lot of input needed for the website. Interactive comments might be asking a bit much to moderate effectively.

      I’m a YES farmer.
      I’m a YES fisherman.
      I’m a YES lawyer…. etc.

      You could end up with a long list and a pretty big website, but something worthwhile for the curious… Use cars stickers and crowd funding to fund it, and it grows into a research resource for everybody.

      Any Yessers up for it?

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