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Wings Over Scotland


Starting the car

Posted on May 28, 2019 by

Ah, some classic Scottish Labour action right here:

A week (and a day) really IS a long time in politics.

Shall we say sometime tomorrow, readers?

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Dr Jim

Ruth Davidson didn’t turn up for the meeting so nothing could be decided

Mcdenster

Done the 3inrow Rev ;o) however I must wade in to proclaim that when if/when my Ill-Health comes in – soon – then free from PS shackles, these Moronic Mogadons are gettin it.

Intellectually&Politically ‘course.

Welsh Sion

“Defiant Richard Leonard won’t resign …”

– Don’t believe anything (a Unionist politician says) until it’s officially denied.

Craig Murray

Would anyone care for a happy thought?

The AUOB march in Gala on Saturday will be in a town where the SNP just won in last weeks election (as everywhere else on the mainland).

Not too many years back that would have seemed wildly improbable.

Hope to see some of you there.

doug_bryce

Richard-who ?

call me dave

This emergence meeting….any news / leaks / rumours?

Has the Leopard been spotted this evening?

PS.

Bercow the Speaker:

The idea that the house won’t have its say is for the birds.
MPs to vote on no deal…looks like.

Petra

If anyone wants a laugh Leonard is on Scotland Tonight at 10:40pm.

velofello

I do hope he stays. I’d miss his bobbing at FMQs, and his big red scarf, just as I missed – whilst she was on leave – watching Ruthie lumbering to her feet in her civvies suit, to deliver yet another bunch of skewed statistics. As Grousebeater opined – Ruthie reading out statements she barely understands.

So who’s next for Slab leader? Does it matter? I suspect the majority of their membership remain due to force of habit, or respect for dear old Grandad and Dad,

Effijy

You can see the pain in that Dick Leonard’s face.

He knows he is a libility in charge of a pretend
Scottish Party devoid of ideas, opinions and talent.

Let’s hope he retains leadership for their burial.

Golfnut

Personally I think the poor chaps getting a bum rap, he has adhered religiously to the level of utter sh### required of any Labour leader in Scotland or indeed elsewhere. I don’t think they really have a lot to complain about.

Capella

@ Craig Murray – wish I could be there. Have a fantastic day, I hope it will be Livestreamed. Plan to make it to Aberdeen, Perth and Edinburgh. Feeling quite buoyant now that the end is in sight.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Starting the car Ah, some classic Scottish Labour action right here: A week (and a day) really IS a […]

Winifred McCartney

This is the man who needs to wear a red scarf so that people will think he is a socialist. He is also the man partly responsible for Glasgow women not getting equal pay and being dragged through the courts by labour in glasgow. It was labour who phoned my 92 year old dad before indy and told him if he voted yes he would not get his pension. They are worse than Tories because they pretend they are the good guys. They are not.

McDuff

It is quite terrifying that Leonard and Davidson are the leaders of anything least of all political parties.
Not only have they the brains of a pinecone but they genuinely have no interest in Scotland or its people.

Scot Finlayson

The bunch of deadbeats calling themselves Scottish Labour couldnae buy a book of stamps without asking permission from UK Labour,

Corbyn might decide to ditch whatshisname and bring in a new face,

but it will be up to Corbyn not the deadbeats,

the deadbeats should just f@ck of out of existence for all the good they have ever done Scotland.

Famous15

Paraphrasing Labour apparatchicks on STV:

“We in Labour Party had a very nuanced message but you voters were too thick to understand”

jockmcx

Can anybody confirm that Stu Campbell is on Alec’s show next
week?…thanks

Mike Robertson

LOL three monkeys on Scotland tonight. Hear no evil,See no evil and speak no evil. Cats fighting in a sack that’s British Labours branch office in Scotland the noo.

Capella

Davidson, like PO Ken Macintosh, is spawn of the BBC. She was employed as a spad by Annabel Goldie and quickly promoted by David Cameron to take over the Tory leadership in Scotland.
Ken Macintosh from wiki

He was previously employed as a television producer for the BBC, working on its news broadcasts and election coverage between 1987 and 1999.

If you have a background in the black arts, like Cameron of Carlton, then you are a shoo in for the Westminster parties.

Unfortunately, if you have no policies that anyone will vote for, you will drop like a stone. No amount of spin will overcome the vacuum that is Tory and Labour policy.

geeo

Call me dave 10.34pm.

Bercow article here. link to archive.is

Scottish Steve

The unionist parties are in such disarray right now. It’s beautiful to behold, especially with the SNP contrasting so starkly as a bastion of sense and stability.

AndyMcKangry

The Labour Party are done.
Their voters have moved on having finally seen them for what they are. They have done nothing for Scotland for 60 years. Party first everything and everyone second.
Their final betrayal came in 2014 and all but the party faithful admit or even see that.
No sympathy for them and no nostalgia either. They no longer serve any purpose.
All the things the last remnants preach about are things they always promised and never delivered, the SNP are and have delivered.
Why don’t they just slope off and die with a bit of dignity.
The king is dead, long live the king.

Steph

Lol.

No one wants to be Scottish branch manager of the Labour party. They won’t touch the job with a barge pole.

That is a chalice which has been poisoned far too much each time a new person drinks from it.

Seems these days every time S/Labour or Scottish Tory branch/Tories gets a new leader they’re always worse than the previous one. Same goes for Lib Dems.

Reminds me of Harry Potter – the Defense Against the Dark Arts job was cursed, with each person who took the job worse than the last (minus Lupin).

Clootie

Richard should stay!
We couldn’t ask for a better leader of the North Britain Branch.

Please keep him.

jockmcx

Which parts of england will claim to be regions of Scotland
after independance?

Is it true that english public schools have replaced latin
with compulsary glaswegian?

Cubby

Scotland Tonight.

Total car crash for Labour in Scotland. Thousands of votes lost again as they argue amongst themselves and flaunt their dirty washing in front of the viewers. It was made crystal clear that Leonard can’t take a piss without running it past London first for approval.

Better Together and Dugdale telling voters to vote tactically ( code for vote Tory ) – they are now reaping what they sowed.

The THIRD party in Scotland will soon be the FOURTH party in Scotland. Wee Willie will be delighted.

Leonard says he will not be resigning – yippee.

Dr Jim

Scotland’s women footballers have a great night and win their game backed by over 18,500 men women and children in a smashing family occasion at home here in Glasgow and the Scottish Unionists crap and snipe all over it once again proving they despise their own country

If these people ever had any brain the cringe has robbed them of its use, they’re like demented caged zoo animals

HandandShrimp

No one asked him to step down because they are all terrified they might get the job.

🙂

Patrick Roden

Mentioned this before but will repeat it here:

I was speaking to a close relative a few weeks ago, who doesn’t normally speak about politics.

However the Brexit stuff was on the tv in the background and she began to talk about the Labour Party.

She told me that she had always voted for Labour (she’s in her sixties) but that they were ‘just so useless now, she couldn’t vote for them anymore’

She looked really hurt as she said this, but the added that she wasn’t sure who she would now vote for, but that she felt that she’d ‘probably vote for the SNP as they were closest to how she feels’

I was then able to tell her that I always vote for the SNP because they were the only main party in Scotland that didn’t take orders from London and wouldn’t knowingly do anything that would harm Scotland’s best interests.

I’m not sure what it was that caused her to decide she couldn’t ever vote Labour again, although it clearly pained her, but I would bet the exact same thing is happening all over Scotland as we speak and will continue to happen, until the Labour Party in Scotland is completely hollowed out.

Ah well, never mind.

Robert J. Sutherland

Winifred McCartney @ 22:56,

Yes, NorthBritLab supped with the devil, but the dummies used too short a spoon.

And ever since, they have been paying the price. More and more people coming to see that they sold their souls, and so cheaply too. Not even BBC Scotlandshire pal-o-vision can save them now.

Robert J. Sutherland

Patrick Roden @ 00:16,

My previous posting was for you too, Patrick.

Cactus

Aye, the political branch may finally snap for Leonard later today

18/11/17 to 29/05/19
link to wingsoverscotland.com

He’s lasted longer than many expected

Select 1st gear

Robert J. Sutherland

Cactus @ 00:42,

James Kelly, your moment of glory is finally about to come!

Bob Mack

I can almost hear “et tu Brute” ,in a Kenneth Williams voice.

Infamy infamy, they’ve all got it in for me . Happy days.

Cactus

Mornin’ Robert, aye could ye imagine JK as FM!

Of a statesmanlike quality be he, hehe

A new statue for Jimmy please 🙂

Cactus

It’s all Madness…

link to youtube.com

Whose got the keys?

Cactus

Last Call fundraiser ’19 updatum:

Gift page showing £102,445.40 with 1,957 donations to date…

Ah wonder what the running total will be up to upon Donor 2,000

link to donorbox.org

Vrooom! Vrooom!

43 to go

geeo

Cubby@11.49pm

Why would Rennie be delighted, they are already 5th and last party !!

Imagine the Greens may be chuffed if labour slide further and they become 3rd party here.

Of course, as currently constituted, we will be 3 parties short in an indy Scotland, at Holyrood.

Fun times ahead for sure.

Flower of Scotland

Craig Murray@ 10.30pm

I’ll be in Galashiels on Saturday. Going with a gang of yessers. Should be a good day.

Patrick Roden

What a great European Election this has been, and it might not be over yet!

Scottish Labour, Ruth Davidson, and the BBC’s credibility, have all taken huge hits, and the fall-out will go on for some time.

Magic!

Cactus

All Under One Banner ~ Galashiels ’19

link to howmanydaystill.com

Be sure tae follow yer team…

To the borders!

Gary

Much unhappiness in the ranks. Their policies, NOT talking about Brexit for a change, just don’t work for them anymore.

I saw Neil Findlay interviewed. Saying he was resigning from the front bench and going to stand down at the next elections. He was, despite everything he has espousd on their behalf, bemoaning Labour policy by saying that the Labour attitude of being ‘Ultra Unionist’ simply wasn’t working and was alienating the voters!! My God, just how dense was he that he’s only getting his head round this NOW! (of course maybe he isn’t, maybe he tried to reform from within and feels he’s failed?)

I have mixed feelings about this. Should Labour adopt either a ‘pro’ or at least a ‘noncommital’ stance on Indy it COULD benefit the cause of independence leading to possible independence under a Labour government. On the other hand, they could regain ground and not honour any promises or just kick the can down the road by saying if/when there IS IndyRef2 they will not specifically campaign either way.

But the current state of the party, ie fifth place, is entirely down to their own failings in Scotland. In England the at least managed THIRD place. In Scotland they are now a party of the past.

They forgot that they weren’t always Scotland’s main party, there was a sea change when Scotland essentially stopped voting Tory or Liberal and moved en masse to Labour for some 50 years. They got fat and lazy and stopped caring about their constituents, they forgot their founding principals and became ‘Tory Lite’ They’ve rightly been punished for this…

Clootie

Labour complain about all of the policies enacted by a Tory Government supported by a right wing UK vote base (including the flat Earth DUP).

The one policy they a clear on is opposition to Independence. The very thing which would give us power to address all of those issues in Scotland.

In summary – everyone is out of step with Labour. They scream daily that they want to talk about social injustice but attack the one solution that would address every area of concern.

Labour is part of the Empire legacy which has nothing to offer the people of Scotland.

They are simply the proud North British Red Tories. From the HofLs to Trident they are loyal servants to the Union. The people of Scotland appear not to deserve their support so why should Scotland vote for them?

Ken500

They all reneged on the VOW. They reneged on promises made the next day. The unionists are compulsive liars. Brown, Clegg, Cameron. They were voted in to protect the NHS and Education. They cut both, NHS £4Billion a year and Education £6Billion. Halve of which they will not get back in increased student fees elsewhere. Cut Welfare £3Billion a year for six years. £18Billion People are starving.

Austerity was totally unnecessary the tax revenues increased from £533Billion to £628Billion. Increased £95Billion. The SNP Scottish Gov had to mitigate all these cuts. The Scottish budget has been cut 10% a year. Now £3Billion less. The Scottish tax revenues raised have increase £4Billion a year. The fishing, farming and Oil & Gas sector all totally mismanaged by Westminster. Fish discarded, throwing back dead fish, farming CAP payments taken. Oil sector highly taxed when the price had fallen. Now 40% since Jan 2016.

The Tory unionists are spending £Billions on HS2, Hinkley Point and Trident. All a total waste of tax payers money. An absolute disgrace. The waste of money on Brexit which will not happen is just appalling.

Tom

Two thoughts:

1) This goes for the tories as well. If you want to do well in Scotland, then be a legally separate party from the main UK one.

2) Perhaps he didn’t resign because nobody wanted to pick up the poisoned chalice. Unlike in Westminster where there are 10+ idiots who don’t realise that being leader when Brexit takes place will mean they will be in the top 3 worst Prime ministers of the UK, putting Lord North into 4h place.

Nana

Links

link to gov.scot

As part of our ongoing work to improve the health of the nation, a consultation on the creation of a new public health body has been published.
link to consult.gov.scot

FM says
link to twitter.com

Nicola Sturgeon in Conversation with Dearbhail McDonald’
Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon participated in a wide-ranging discussion with journalist Dearbhail McDonald including a short Q&A session to close in the Royal Irish Academy on 27 May 2019.
link to soundcloud.com

McBoxheid

If you follow orders from a foreign country’s (England: We are in a union with them, not part of them.) politcal parties, when they are in melt down, the last thing they think about is other countries (Scotland, N.I. and Wales). They have to deal with their own domestic crisis first, before they have time to think about foreign policy (what to do in Scotland, N.I. and Wales).

Their party leader, (not the branch manager) is completely lost. Jeremy Corbyn (J.C.) tries to pretend that he is keeping his plan close to his chest, that his enigmatic plan will be revealed in the fullness of time, but I don’t think he actually has anything concrete either. (Westminster is full of unionist party bluffers and gravy train surfers.)

J.C. had been drifting along in oblivion for so long, that when he became party leader, he had to fight to keep his post and has nothing left to do anything else, no plausible policies. Like the other unionist party leaders, (not branch managers) he does not know what to do. They have no precedence to follow and daren’t risk putting something forward to be ripped apart by his enemies in his own party and on social media.

They have all lost their way and that includes the people that once followed them. There will always be chancers like Nigel Farage, even his initials NF are dodgy. (NF = National Front)) that step in to fill the vacuum. He is just another greedy spiv, that is raking in the money from donors across the world.

When place men are caught in the headlights, the don’t know what to do, so the disappear to contact their handler. (UN)fortunately, their handler’s have no chance of getting to see their highheidyins, so they are totally stuck.

The union is well and truely broken, it always was, but that is now exposed to everyday debate, with social media (s.m.), s.m. never forgets.

I don’t think the British Empire would have been possible if they had s.m. in the day, as it would be obvious as to what they were doing and divide and rule, bluffing and lying openly could all be revealed for what it is at the touch of a button.

For me, Nicola Sturgeon is the modern day Ghandi. She is leading a party that is honestly and positively opposing British rule without breaking the law. Truth always wins in the end.

The landslide victory at the EU elections is not the same as a general election win in the future. It may have been a protest vote for many, but also had a low turnout.
Normally a low turnout is bad for the SNP, but not this time. This time, the two big parties were so heavily defeated. It was a severe warning to them, but also it was hope and encouragement to a Yes movement that is only going to get bigger, the more the truth is exposed. The more Westminster is seen as what it is. The more the BBC is exposed as a lying, (by ommission) and biased agent for the union that it is.

Well done to the Rev and his ilk for exposing the lot of them for what they are.

Well done to the REV and his ilk for helping to open the eyes of so many people who were previously deceived by labour, the Libdems and the Tories.

Well done to the REV and his ilk for giving the truth the exposure it needed and still needs.

Thank you.

Nana

link to sputniknews.com

A trip down memory lane
link to twitter.com

Claude Juncker says
“I was crystal clear. There will be no renegotiation”
link to twitter.com

link to independent.co.uk

Nana

Two lots of links have failed to appear. I tried rearranging and posting again and got ‘duplicate message’ but still no appearance.

I will leave it for the Rev to sort.

Hopefully they will appear as there is a link to yesterday’s event/discussion with Bercow talking about turbulent times in UK politics.

Mac

O/T

Can anyone remind me the background and outcome to the area of Scottish Waters that was sectioned off to England during Blair’s time (I think). If I recall, the intention was to incorporate certain oilfields.

I could google, but I suspect the minds on here will have more instant and accurate answers 🙂

Nana

@Mac

Craig Murray’s video here

In 1999, the UK establishment secretly reclassified 6,000 square miles of Scottish sea as English waters.

link to youtube.com

Nana

@Mac

see Craig’s blog, good pic at the start

link to craigmurray.org.uk

Greannach

Inspiring that Neil Findlay in his resignation letter talks about his campaigning for his class.

I presume that means he’ll be manning the barricades on behalf of career politicians everywhere.

call me dave

Radio shortbread introduces the subject of an UK enquiry into ‘broadband’ with SNP MP A. Brown who is on the committee.

He sounded like he was on an internet connection and listed the half dozen items of the enquiry.

Switch to owner of an 11 bedroom hotel in the country who has a dodgy internet and no mobile phone and moaned for a couple of minutes.

That was it! Interview finished they never went back to Brown for a comment?? FGS!

—————————————————–
Now here’s Gary trying to put words into Angela Constance’s mouth about the Bill coming through Holyrood conflating the EU election vote with a Scottish referendum. Basically suggesting it’s greedy like having your cake and eat it.

Gary implying why have Indy2 if remain in EU is successful… you cant have both?
Too many referendums not enough time for the day job…blah blah!

Good old Auntie wie a kilt! 🙂 Another day in the colony.

Heart of Galloway

Shortbread TV repeating its ‘Scotland needs Westminster’s permission’ line in reporting on the unveiling later today at Holyrood of the draft framework bill for IndyRef2.
Telling the people of Scotland they are powerless has always been the MSM’s weapon of choice.
I wonder how they will handle disseminating the stark truth contained within the Bill – that its provisions are founded on Scottish popular sovereignty and is specifically designed to give the people of Scotland the power to hold and organise IndyRef2 without needing London’s permission?

Dr Jim

The Unionist question

Unionists argue they don’t want Independence for Scotland under any circumstances, in fact many Unionists argue they would abolish the Scottish parliament as well

At the moment under the current system England outvotes Scotland 10 to 1 on every political issue confronting Scotland, so Scotland is forced to depend on luck if England decides something that might benefit Scotland and as England mostly votes for Conservative governments which Scotland invariably does not, that one hasn’t worked out particularly well

Who speaks for Scotland in a system where the Unionists get their way, because if their intention is to remove that tier of government while imperfect at least at the moment it has some say

Post 2014 the Smith commission was set up to deliver a fairer devolution settlement for Scotland but the three Unionist parties were given a vote each on that commission as against the SNP and the Greens one vote each, the three Unionst parties voted against Scotland gaining more devolution so once again Scotland was outvoted in what was supposed to be its own commission by parties who represent the interests of the larger UK which as we know is England, the bit that outvotes us by 10 to 1

Scotland does get more powers by dribbles and bits because of the SNP, who if they weren’t there no power would be forthcoming at all in fact power would be returning to England if the Unionists had their way

So what is the reasonable argument that Unionists have against Scotland deciding its own future, they can’t say we’re not up to it, Scotland invented half the modern world there has been no country on earth since the time of the Greek civilisation that has made a bigger contribution to the planet than Scotland, so what’s the Unionist argument, what are they talking about

Well if you’re a Unionist politician the answer is a Knighthood or a Lordship if you argue against Scottish Independence, but if you’re Joe Public you get nothing, in fact because you’re Scottish you get less than the guy in England who outvotes you by 10 to 1

Why are Unionists happy about that

Abulhaq

Many of the new candidates for English PM are beginning to sound alike? Like smarmy, pushy chancers with the gift of Faragist newspeak.
By comparison Gove & Johnson present as a models of high statesmanship.
North Brit Labour region is a backwater. Hi, I’m Richard Leonard, Sorry, say again?
Btw…when will the Scottish Revolution begin? Must be my New Scot DNA talking, but how do Old Scots stay so cool? Insult piled on insult? Still waters running deep or simply the drawback to a Nationalist tsunami?

Josef Ó Luain

All this waiting for the old to die so that the new can be born, is playing havoc with my patience. There should be laws and mechanisms in place to move these dullard bastards out of the way on the very first whiff of their putrescence.

Muscleguy

@Cactus
2nd gear would be better, the battery is flat and they will have to crash start the clown car. Problem is they parked it at the bottom of a glen and the only roads are up and up.

They have convened a committee to thrash out who is excused pushing duties. A rash of self declarations by former Men has happened and are now claiming to be weak and feeble women and unable to push.

As the camera pans away and the sad, slightly comic music (there must be a tuba) rises, so do the voices. Oor man Leonard is stting in the driving seat of the clown car staring fixedly ahead.

David

Is it possible for James Kelly to be the new leader? Labour are thick enough to consider that would be a good idea. James Kelly – man of the people.

Robert Peffers

@Gary says:29 May, 2019 at 3:49 am:

… My God, just how dense was he that he’s only getting his head round this NOW!

I knew the writing was on the Scottish, (sic), Labour wall when London sent their man up to Glasgow to deselect the sitting councillor candidates and replace them with candidates chosen by London Labour.

Most deselected councillors left Labour, some deselected councillors then stood against the London chosen candidates and some even joined the SNP.

I posted then that the Writing was on the wall for Labour. but it has taken longer than I thought. I’d postulate this was not due to my predictive capacity but down to Scottish Labour just being far too thick to read the writing on the wall.

When the leadership in London over rule the local constituency associations it shows that the local constituency has drifted away from the London party fundamental line but the real problem is, and we all knew it, was that London Labour had moved to the right in order to win votes from middle England under Tony Blair and he took Gordon Brown and co. in Scottish Labour along with him but Scotland is not part of Middle England. As we see now neither is middle Scotland.

Greannach

David @ 09.13

Yes. Please make Labour’s next branch manager James Kelly MSP. Please.

mike cassidy

Stu drew attention to this on twitter

The reality of being an English ‘remain’ labour mp in a divided constituency where almost nobody wants a second EU referendum.

But it was this bit that drew my attention.

” The only route to Number 10 runs through our leave-voting towns and our remain-voting cities; through Scotland, Wales, Lewisham and Bolsover. “

Nice to know we rate as highly as Bolsover in her mind.

Not so sure their MP for half a century, Denis Skinner, will be pleased.

link to archive.is

Nana

Here is the Referendums (Scotland) Bill – link to parliament.scot …. As expected, it is a framework bill, which can be applied by ministerial order to any particular referendum. This gets round competence constraints, because the order-making power will be read as applying only (1)

link to twitter.com

manandboy

LABOUR – ALWAYS A PART OF THE BRITISH UNIONIST ESTABLISHMENT

With FPTP, the Westminster Establishment keeps its stranglehold on UK power & wealth, through the Tory and Labour parties. Democracy in the UK is a loaded dice.

link to politics.co.uk

The tide has turned in UK politics, and with it, Scottish Independence will reach the shore.

It is time. Vote SNP. Join the SNP. Be a Nation again.

jfngw

Even if Labour in Scotland declared they now were converted to independence would you believe them. Or would you think it was just another vow in the hope of reducing the SNP support that allows their Tory partners across Scotland into power.

My feeling is they would do anything to preserve the union, there is no such thing as Labour values with them, only unionist values.

Nana

Legal framework set out for referendums in Scotland.

The Scottish Government has today published legislation to set the rules for any referendum within the competence of the Scottish Parliament

link to gov.scot

Nana

Just published a Bill to set the rules for an independence referendum – to allow the Scottish people to choose our own future rather than having a Brexit future imposed on us. @Feorlean will update @ScotParl later on it and our plans for cross party talks and a Citizens’ Assembly
link to twitter.com

Ministerial statement 1.30pm
link to bb.parliament.scot

galamcennalath

Brexit. A depressingly probable view from Gina Miller …

“… the grim reality is that with so many unscrupulous politicians so close to taking the leadership of the Conservative party, and the office of prime minister, a no-deal Brexit seems more likely than ever before … “

link to archive.is

Meanwhile WM is doing absolutely nothing as the days roll past.

Welsh Sion

Carwyn (‘our’) ex-First Minister (Labour) is now calling for a summer referendum on EU membership.

The two referendum questions to be asked acc. to Carwyn – leave or remain and to leave with or without a deal.

What do Corbyn and Leonard have to say about that?

jfngw

Just when you think things are getting bad the BBC decides it’s time for some WWII celebrations (is 75 years some landmark or just an excuse). A bit of a waste of time as everybody in my family that took part in the event has passed on a number of years ago.

Also my father who was in North Africa and Southern Italy would never talk about the war, I only found out about where he was from my mother. He never wanted to celebrate it.

Frank Gillougley

I noticed the stark comparative figures between SNP and sLAB for the European elections between 2014 and 2019.

In short, over 5 years sLAB (under Murphy, Dugdale & Leonard) have lost 200,000 Voters to the SNP amounting to a real difference of 400,000 votes in terms of swing etc.

Leonard must stay. Keep living the lie.

Ian Brotherhood

The Evening Times poll:

‘Do you want a second Scottish independence referendum?’

Final result:

Total votes cast – 23,444

Yes, 65%
No 35%

Dr Jim

On Sky news this morning a woman representing Labour said that the *compliance committee* should expel every member of the Labour party who didn’t or doesn’t vote Labour

That’s a heck of a lot of Scotland then

Who’s the cult now

A Brexit party man was interviewed by Adam Boulton and the Brexit man said the *whole country* want’s Brexit because they won the election
Adam Boulton said “well clearly Scotland and Northern Ireland don’t want it because you didn’t win there”

The Brexit man answered this by smirking and waving his hand in a dismissive manner
The words he didn’t say were *Scotland and Northern Ireland don’t count*

Cubby

Glenn Campbell on BBC news saying there will be another indyref but just not for a long time. A very long time. He says the UK will not allow it. Sturgeon will not be having a referendum next year he says. So we are in a prison are we Glenn? The UK union is a union by an international treaty. If we cannot cancel the Treaty then it is a prison.

It is not ordinary English people keeping us in this prison called Her Majesty’s Union it is people like Campbell from Islay. People like Campbell pretending to be objective news reporters when really he is an ultra unionist whose career depends on the union. He is a propagandist.

Iain mhor

@Patrick Roden 12:16am
Though I can’t speak for your particular instance I can, anecdotally, for a few others of my acquaintance.
It turns out that many Scots actually have a soft spot for Scotland despite also being wedded to the Union. The relentless attacks on Scotland are not welcome. The message spilled from anti-SNP to anti-Scotland. Labour had been perceived as being a bulwark against the more rabid Tory elements, but instead joined them in these attacks. That’s been said often here and elsewhere too.

At first it seems it’s precisely the lack of standing up for Scotland and defending against harsh Tory policies which caused the rift. It gets a little interesting though – the hazy idea is : ‘there was always going to be a Union forever anyway and that was fine, so “Scottish Labour” were to operate for Scotland within it’. But the shift to being a Unionist party was also the problem for “Scottish Labour”. They were not previously perceived as ‘defenders of the Union’ first and foremost – that was not their function. The Union in this case, was a permanent concept which was another domain entirely and of no concern of Scotland, merely something superimposed on Scotland. “Scottish Labour” were supposed to be defenders of the workie and the constituency in Scotland.

Previously, there was no SNP, there had been no alternative. “Scottish Labour” was the Scottish party. then in seemingly short order, the SNP arose and started doing Scottish Labours job, while “Scottish Labour” became the London Labour Unionist Party – So not merely poor defenders, they morphed into London Labour and became strangers to Scotland – at least this seems the vague idea. Even at constituency level, they jumped into bed with the Tories rather than working with the SNP, a big betrayal.
That was the general distillation from a few lifelong Labour voters I’ve spoken with. Yes we know there is no such thing as “Scottish Labour” but that is today – for Labour supporters in the past, there appparently was and that Scottish party is gone – that makes them very sad.

Brian Doonthetoon

Hi Ian B.

Have you got a real link (non-twitter) for that poll result? The page I have is showing 91% YES, 9% NO, with 6129 votes, poll closed. Or was yours Twitter only?

link to eveningtimes.co.uk

Bobp

I would never vote for any party other than SNP till Scotland becomes an independent nation. And even after that,I’d have to seriously think about it.

Ian Brotherhood

@BDTT –

🙂

link to twitter.com

galamcennalath

” · European Council president Donald Tusk says that he believes that the recent European Parliament elections have shown that Brexit has been a vaccine against anti-EU propaganda. “

On one level, he’s right. Leaving the EU is a bloody stupid idea and has been shown to be just that.

However, on another level he hasn’t got it quite right. The chaos isn’t actually about leaving the EU, most of it is being caused by English Nationalist entitlement and exceptionalism with dose of total ignorance – they want the EU to give them what they want, and they also insist the whole UK accompanies England despite others not wishing to.

Add it this a completely incompetent opposition at WM from Labour.

Should any other country wish to leave the EU, it is highly unlikely they would make such a complete hash if it! They would probably do the planning before actually committing to leave!

link to irishtimes.com

Cubby

Dr Jim @10.26am

The whole country is England. It is always England.

On last nights BBC Newsnight it started with a statement saying the winners of the EU election are – they then displayed a graphic showing the Brexit party and the Lib Dems. No SNP Scotland does not exist. Of course the Lib Dems did not win anything.

Peter McCulloch

While I’m enjoying watching Labour and the Tories disintegrate.

though I for one won’t be relaxing and will continue getting stuck into them at every opportunity.

Robert J. Sutherland

Dr Jim @ 10:26,

I caught some radio interview recently with Ian Blackford (I think it was), and the interviewer’s killer line was asking – well, more like stating – “but anyway you [the SNP] are impotent, aren’t you?”.

These people think they are putting us in our place, not realising that every time they say that kind of thing they are making our case for us, that we will never get a fair deal while stuck in London.

And the conclusion that more and more people here are reaching is the obvious one.

Tam fae somewhere

James Kelly for Labour (Scottish Branch) first line manager job please!

Knowing him during his school days I am gob smacked that he has got anywhere near potentially gets his hands on the levers of power in Scotland.

admiral

Bobp says:
29 May, 2019 at 10:36 am
I would never vote for any party other than SNP till Scotland becomes an independent nation. And even after that,I’d have to seriously think about it.

THIS! The SNP is the only realistic vehicle to deliver independence. All this “I support indepence but only if things are exactly the way I want them” is just a distraction from the main goal. Either you support Scotland being independent or you don’t.

Cubby

Iain Mhor@10.29am

I am sure that in the minds of many older Labour supporters in Scotland they genuinely felt there was a genuine “Scottish” Labour in the past but it was just an illusion – a con trick. Labour was always a Britnat party controlled by London. I am sure there are a lot of sad Labour supporters. No one likes to think they have been conned for most of their life.

At least the Tories put Unionist in the name of the party. Labour did not as they had to maintain their illusion.

There are only two Scottish parties in Holyrood – SNP and Scottish Greens.

Dr Jim

Michael Gove in an earlier incarnation said that Scottish people don’t rise in England they’re more likely to be found under a bridge drunk with their hand out to an Englishman

And he said that on National Television but I can’t find the bloody clip now

Michael Gove speaks with a pretendy Scottishy Englishy mixture of an accent in the hope to appeal to all sides, in truth he’s a dead fish that needs thrown back in the sea where he came from, what an embarrassment to Aberdeen

Robert Peffers

@McBoxheid says: 29 May, 2019 at 7:30 am:

” … If you follow orders from a foreign country’s (England: We are in a union with them, not part of them.)”

Sorry to point this out to you, McBoxheid, but you have begun this comment by setting off down the same wrong track as have the Westminster Establishment and that is fundamentally the real problem. The name of this political state is, “The United KINGDOM,” but you are commenting about it as if it is a union of countries. However, let’s read on.

” … We are in a union with them, not part of them.)

Exactly, but what we are in union with is a three country Kingdom of England and, unlike Wales and N.I. we are, (legally), an equally sovereign full partner kingdom along with the 3 country Kingdom of England. This makes Scotland’s case a great deal stronger than either Wales and N.I. However, both of the English Kingdom’s two annexed countries have strong, but different, cases for their independence.

” … politcal parties, when they are in melt down, the last thing they think about is other countries (Scotland, N.I. and Wales). They have to deal with their own domestic crisis first, before they have time to think about foreign policy (what to do in Scotland, N.I. and Wales).”

Now rethink that statement in the light of the United Kingdom being a two kingdom partnership of equally sovereign kingdoms. The Westminster Establishment has been a broken treaty since 1 May 1707 because the new parliament that sat that day was a two equally sovereign partnership of kingdoms but it continued as if it was still the old parliament of the Kingdom of England that had annexed the country of Scotland but the old parliament of the Kingdom of England had legally put itself into permanent recess from 30 April 1707.

That is the problem that has dogged, “The Union”, until this day and unless those opposing the union can see it as that then they weaken, or even lose, the whole sorry mess we find ourselves in today.

The very fact you are here looking at the problem as if the Union is what Westminster said it was on 1 May 1707 instead of what you see as a four country union of countries with the country of England ruling over three English dominions that England has devolved English sovereign powers to then you are just following the orders that Westminster is the real parliament of England when the truth is that Westminster is but the illegal, de facto, parliament of England.

In other words you are accepting what Westminster has brainwashed you to accept while the facts are that the United Kingdom is factually a two partner union of equally sovereign kingdoms and the proof of that pudding stares you in the face in, “The Treaty of Union”.

I’ll condense all that into one statement.

The Treaty of Union is the real legal Written Constitution of, “The United Kingdom”, but has never been honoured by the Kingdom of England since 1 May 1707.

So you are on the right track but need to begin the argument right at the start of the Union. A Union that has never been honoured by the Kingdom of England since day one of the Union.

That is a totally legally watertight case and the way forward is to show, as has already been done, that the union is a two partner union of kingdoms, not of countries, and that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and want to end the Union as is their legal right as a sovereign people.

Abulhaq

@Dr Jim 10:54
He shares that Unionist cringe with out and proud Davidson and that woman, forget her name, that used to head Labour’s Scottish branch. Does Rennie do the cringe too?
Why the type does not just take the high road to the Home counties perplexes me.
Scotch Useful Idiots for English Hegemony..tney might start a party, oops, my mistake, we already have three

Nana
gus1940

O/T

We have long been accustomed to the deluge of multi billion infrastructure schemes in London and the SE financed by the taxpayers of the rest of the UK.

However to add to the list last night I watched a program about the flooding crisis facing London and its surroundings due to rising sea levels and rainfall increases.

Although no figure was given of the projected costs of providing a solution the word Billions was mentioned.

Given the content of the program the cost will be massive and the number of Billions will be astronomical.

Any likelihood that the tab will be picked up by the London & SE taxpayers is laughable.

As usual the mugs of the rest of The UK and Scotland will be bled dry as our wealth and assets are sucked out of us to feed the greedy mouths of our colonial masters..

Breeks

Dr Jim says:
29 May, 2019 at 10:54 am
Michael Gove in an earlier incarnation said that Scottish people don’t rise in England they’re more likely to be found under a bridge drunk with their hand out to an Englishman

And he said that on National Television but I can’t find the bloody clip now…

Wee Ginger Dug has it…

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

Dr Jim

Yep, They keep telling Scotland to our faces that we don’t count, no matter what we say no matter what we vote for or against Scotland doesn’t count

For more than 300 years the politicians and country of England have smirked arrogantly at the nation of Scotland who but for us would all be dead of syphillis and would still be screaming in pain had we not invented Penicillin and Anaesthetics or modern economics while they were still making clay pots, and today they use another Scottish invention (The Television) against us in their propaganda war on Scotland

There’s only one thing England has more of than Scotland, and it’s people, who they brought in from all over the world to work for them renamed themselves The British Empire and now they want rid of the ones they don’t like the look of using the pretence of politics that it’s somethng to do with the European Union being bad

The world sees racism, they’re not bloody stupid, Scotland’s been suffering from it for 300 years
You don’t have to be people of colour to be discriminated against

What’s your favourite nickname for a Scot or an Irishman or a Welshman and where did that nickname come from

But it’s only friendly banter isn’t it, they say

Well no it’s not and that’s why I employ a *hostile environment* for anybody who uses it, remember who came up with *hostile environment*

Now it’s my F…..g turn,

Keep saying it, see what happens

galamcennalath

@Dr Jim

Also at

link to mobile.twitter.com

Dr Jim

@Breeks

That’s the very clip, thank you so much, I hope everyone plays that and takes in what the Tories think is extremely funny

Abulhaq

The linked article from the Glasgow Herald reporting the creation of the SNP in 1934 and critiquing its aims is interesting.
link to news.google.com
For the 21st century Unionist parties time has stood still, Scotland needs England etc and its still all just about economics too.

Dr Jim

@galancennalath

Sorry I was posting just as you put the same clip

The whole of Scotland needs to see this kind of behaviour to understand our real position in these Islands

I’ve always thought, a bit like black people that we can make fun of ourselves but when other people do it it’s insulting and racist, with one caveat ……intent!

If it’s really not meant to offend then it’s plain and obvious and humorous, but we can tell the difference and that’s where the offence comes in, they think we’re too stupid to notice, again offensive

Cubby

Boris Johnston being taken to court for lying about the info on the big red bus prior to the EU referendum.

Well if Britnats are going to be taken to court for lying the courts are going to be very busy for a long time.

Let’s see some of the Scot Britnats in a Scottish court for lying to the people of Scotland.

galamcennalath

A judge has said Boris Johnson must go on trial for allegedly “lying and misleading the British public” about the consequences of Brexit. He’s not the only one!

Greannach

The “Cringe” should be developed into a dance with a set of agreed and defined moves. The head should be lowered and the eyes facing the ground. One arm should be politely raised as if asking permission then stretched out as if wiping a colonial master’s backside.

It some choreographer could work on it, it could become as impressive as a Busby Berkeley music. Instead of “Gold Diggers of 1933”, it could be “Arse Lickers of 2019”.

In place of Ginger Rodgers and Fred Astaire, we could look forward to the slnky moves of Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and whoever has been left to switch off the lights for Labour. I take it we won’t be having Neil Findlay as a dashing Gene Kelly.

Petra

@ Dr Jim … Let’s not forget that Ruth Davidson is another one who’s keen to demean the Scots in an attempt to sook up to the English, especially her London masters.

”The Tory MSP added: “Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!”

link to indyref2.scot

geeo

@robert peffers@11.02am

It seems unbelievable that you still have to explain the constitutional reality of the United Kingdom on here, but i suppose if it is still helping, then it is still worth repeating.

I would suggest that Devolution is the ultimate breach of the treaty of union, as WM has never had the proper authority to devolve power from a Parliament that Scotland is a legally equal founding partner of.

Its like devolving power from yourself, to yourself.

Bit of an error by WM unionists, as it gave our Sovereign People political recourse.

As you often say, robert, when Holyrood was announced as the reconvened Scottish Parliament, rather than the ‘new’ parliament, was a seminal moment for the indy cause.

I wonder how certain naysayers on here will choose to comment later on today after the indyref legislation statement this afternoon ?

You know, how the SNP are “doing nothing”.

Petra

Boris to face the music for lying to the UK public, which will probably come to nought of course, but why not Gove? Farage is another who should be behind bars right now too.

‘WATCH: Lord Sugar says Michael Gove and Boris Johnson should be jailed over NHS Brexit pledge.’

link to politicshome.com

Cubby

Gus1940@11.13am

Spot on comment. I also saw this programme. Londoners will have to wear their wellies going to work in future decades.

The only point I would add to your post is that a figure of £4 billion was quoted for the PART of the work that was for more drainage tunnels under London.

Scotlands oil money being used to keep Londoners dry.

Breeks

Gove is no different from Davidson, maligning the presence of Scots at big events for getting drunk and stealing things.

I wonder if they enjoy seeing the 300 Spartans betrayed by Ephialtes of Trachis, or whether it maybe makes them a wee bit uncomfortable to watch when the Persians line his pockets with Xerxes gold after selling his heroic countrymen down the river.

galamcennalath

Brussels is moving to break up the team that negotiated Theresa May’s Brexit deal, in the most concrete sign yet that the EU has absolutely no intention of re-opening talks on the treaty. (From Independent).

And still, Tory leadership candidates fantasise (or lie) about changing the backstop.

McBoxheid

Robert Peffers says:
29 May, 2019 at 11:02 am

@McBoxheid says: 29 May, 2019 at 7:30 am:

I agree with you that what you said is the correct case in terms or international terms and treaties of hundreds od years ago. However, if the other 2 states N.I. and Wales, voted with a majority for separation, present day political precedence would become far more relevant than a treaty from way back when they were occupied.

The UN agrees that each country/state/people have the right to govern themselves. With enough present day political pressure, especially from N.I. with their own particular recent political past, they would have little trouble becoming independent and get U.N. recognition for it.

The Northern Irish have the chance of becoming independent in the EU or out of it, or reunification with the Republic of Ireland. There is even recent precedent, with German reunification* and the splitting up of the former Yugoslavia.

If England tried to reocuppy either of their former occupied territories, then not only would the U.N. have something to say about it, but also the E.U. especially if they were wanting to rejoin. They would both pile on the pressure with sanctions that a recently isolated England seeking trade agreements, would have major problems with.

Nobody would be interested in getting involved with a country that used to be a pretty nasty empirial power that probably was at war with, or occupied all or part of their own county as recently as the first half of the last centuary.

*I know the circumstances are different, but recent precedence is quite a powerful argument in international law.

Footsoldier

I am on board with breaking the Treaty of Union but I have 2 questions:

a) Was it not an incorporating union from which it is not possible to pull out?
b) Why do we never hear the SNP talk about it, even if only to educate the English that it was a union of two countries?

call me dave

The Hootsman!

“Reckless government wanting an irresponsible independence referendum in the middle of ‘the countries’constitutional crisis” says Pamela Nash.

But…but, Pamela maybe Scots
like bread and butter and toast and jam at the same time.

PS:
Did ye hear Toodle-oo-the-noo on radio shortbread calming the nation this morning chipping in with the Union backstop

‘Westminster must agree to acknowledge the result’

A tone down from Unionist others saying ‘agree permission to hold a referendum’

Interesting little change, maybe Brian swithering. 🙂

Robert J. Sutherland

Breeks @ 12:11,

It seems that people are finally catching on to Flip-flop Gal, so maybe the tipping point for tolerance of this kind of ingratiating self-loathing will soon be reached.

It’s not even as if they are personally getting paid for this kind of thing, though their sham autonomous branch offices certainly are. They forelock-tug for free, for a few cheap laughs from their “betters”. In Ruthie’s case, not exactly compatible with her preferred media persona as “feisty”.

But then, her much-promoted 13-strong little band haven’t ever “gone over the top” for Scotland, have they? Cowered in their deep little trench, more like.

galamcennalath

Popular candidate Johnston is being taken to court for allegedly misleading the public.

Bercow says parliament will make the decision on ‘no deal’.

The EU have said no more negotiating, again, and dissolving their team to prove it.

Labour having real difficulty in following which day of the week it is.

Scotland’s stars seem to be aligning.

McBoxheid

geeo says:
29 May, 2019 at 12:02 pm

@robert peffers@11.02am

It seems unbelievable that you still have to explain the constitutional reality of the United Kingdom on here, but i suppose if it is still helping, then it is still worth repeating.
_________________________

Did you even read my post?

I am well aware of the contitutional reality of the United Kingdom. Modern political precendence is also relevant to the current set up, as I went to explain in my later post.

Christ almighty, every time someone mentions the union that is the United Kingdom, but doesn’t quote chapter and verse, then they are pulled up by the constitutional thought police. I was talking about the unionist labour party and the political reality and did not want to go into the ins and outs of the union of crowns, the union of parliament and all of the relevant treaties with all the dots crossed, because my post was long enough and it wasn’t essential to put my point of view across.

Your attitude puts people off posting and contributing in their way.
I didn’t realise this was a club and posts had to be vetted espressly by you. May be if you relaxed a bit, then more lurkers would actually contribute on here.

Dan

Breeks says: at 12:11 pm

Gove is no different from Davidson, maligning the presence of Scots at big events for getting drunk and stealing things.

Hmm, yet they don’t appear to have a problem with some politicians getting drunk on subsidised drink at the “big parliament” and stealing things…

Dr Jim

Labour always call themselves the party of devolution

Huge monster big fat lie when it happened then and a big fat lie now

Tony Blair’s *devolution* deal with another Scottish cringer Donald Dewar was a Scottish pretendy parliament for Labour to keep carrying out the wishes of the London Tory party in exchange for 6.000 square miles of Scottish waters containing, you guessed it OIL, but this oil was to be English oil not UK sharing oot oil, but English oil, ooh and gas

You’ll hear Unionists saying the SNP were against devolution, well at first they damn well were and you can see why, the SNP were against the theft of Scotland’s oil that’s why, and they were against the stitch up between London and the great Scottish cringers like Dewar who’s only single intention behind devolution was he believed a cementing of fiefdom over Scotland for the Labour party forever more, maybe some haven’t figured out why Labour hate the SNP so much, well that’s why

The SNP wanted Independence then and think of where we’d have been if Labour had really been on the side of Scotland

Donald Dewar and the Labour party in Scotland helped the Tories in England rob Scotland and it’s people of £billions of an income that should have been ours in our own Independent Land

That’s the legacy of Labour

There are Scots out there to this day who’ll say *Aye but it’s too late noo*

It’s never too late to put a wrong right, it’s just about having the guts to do it and stop lying down

If a wee Lassie from Ayr can work hard and rise to be First Minister of my country and take all the abusive shit she takes every day on my behalf then I can at least stand behind her and offer her every support I can to get our country back, even if it’s just leaflets through a door I’m right there

Robert J. Sutherland

call me dave @ 12:21,

When we finally get round to having another referendum, and it delivers more than 50% for indy (as it likely will), Westminster can go whistle. The game will be up and everyone will know it.

Though I can see them try to fob us off with a last-minute Super-Dooper-Devo-Fedo-Max New Union Treaty instead. Which we should firmly but politely decline.

We ex-Devo-Maxers have since acquired rather a taste for having our own foreign and defence policies, thank-you-ever-so-much.

Golfnut

Boris going to court, so lying to the public during the constitutional process could be deemed criminal, are you watch this better together and your media enablers.

Effijy

Ian Brotherhood says:
29 May, 2019 at 10:20 am
The Evening Times poll:

‘Do you want a second Scottish independence referendum?’

Final result:

Total votes cast – 23,444

Yes, 65%
No 35%

Ian, I can see the Headline now.

Borrowed votes for independence beaten by the No voters.

Under London Westminster Rules all No votes are multiplied by 10
and as they played their Joker they get a bonus Million No’s on top.

There is no appetite for accurate calculations in Scotland! lol

Petra

@ Greannach says at 11:47 am … ”The “Cringe” should be developed into a dance with a set of agreed and defined moves. The head should be lowered and the eyes facing the ground. One arm should be politely raised as if asking permission then stretched out as if wiping a colonial master’s backside. It some choreographer could work on it, it could become as impressive as a Busby Berkeley music. Instead of “Gold Diggers of 1933”, it could be “Arse Lickers of 2019”. In place of Ginger Rodgers and Fred Astaire, we could look forward to the slinky moves of Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and whoever has been left to switch off the lights for Labour. I take it we won’t be having Neil Findlay as a dashing Gene Kelly.”

“Arse Lickers of 2019.” Brilliant idea Greannach. I LOVE it. This is the kind of thing that we should be doing. Going on the offensive, turning the tables on them and getting our message across whilst having great fun all over Scotland too. Wouldn’t the ‘Cringe’ go down well at AUOB marches? Meanwhile we’ll continue to listen to the brilliant ‘Cap in Hand.’

link to youtube.com

……………………

C’mon Scots get off of your knees, FGS. NOW is the time to get out of this farce of a ‘Union’ following over 300 years of subjugation. Make an effort to enlighten yourself as to how rich Scotland is in relation to our manifold resources and assets, question the lies, fake news and propaganda that’s being fed to you on a daily basis and then buck yourself up to protect our beautiful country and the future of our children and grandchildren from the highly corrupt Establishment down south. We CAN do it with YOUR help.

link to youtube.com

Proud Cybernat

So my understanding of the Referendums (Scotland) Bill being introduced today in HR is a framework Bill to be applied to any future referendum. It’s not the akchul IndyRef2 Bill itself.

I know it’s important to have this so that we can trigger the akchul Bill at a moment’s notice but still feeling a wee tad let doon.

It’s still a good step forward though.

Robert J. Sutherland

call me dave @ 12:21,

Oh, and I also detected a hint of a change in Brian’s attitude. In that interview with Toom Tabard, where he clearly started losing patience with the government tea-boy buffoon’s manifest truth inversions.

The internet has a long memory, and is helping keep them honest. Not least of all WoS.

Robert J. Sutherland

Proud Cybernat @ 12:54,

Don’t be. It’s smart thinking. It’s entirely neutral, so there is no way that PO Mackintosh can object to it. Nor can any legal challenge to competence stop it. The only way it could be stopped would be if the UKGov were to repeat recent dastardly manoevres and explicitly pass a bill in the HoC to prevent it. And that would itself set a constitutional hare running.

No, this is slowly-slowly-catchee-monkey. Trust me on this, since I’m one of the “impatientistas”. It’s clever.

Davy

I WILL 100% VOTE FOR (James Kelly), he is the closest to a figure both visually and verbally from Trumpton that Labour have got.

He is an absolute ‘shoe’ in, once someone ties his laces for him.

James Kelly for top labour “thingy ma boab”.

Capella

The Bill is approved by both the Lord Advocate and the Presiding Officer – so I read today somewhere but forget where.
The statement is due at 13.30 so watch it on scottishparlaiment tv if you want to avoid the BBC filters and licences.

https://www.scottishparliament.tv

Proud Cybernat

@RJS

Aye – ah can see it’s “clever”. Good to have the right to hold our own referendums passed in law at HR defining the franchise etc.

I just felt it was being touted as THE ‘IR2 Bill’ and it’s a good bit short from that. When the akchul IR2 Bill is passed by HR and goes to Lizzie for Royal Assent, I think that is when things will really kick-off.

Hope Feorlean has more to say at 1:30pm.

Robert Peffers

@Dr Jim says: 29 May, 2019 at 10:26 am:

” … A Brexit party man was interviewed by Adam Boulton and the Brexit man said the *whole country* want’s Brexit because they won the election
Adam Boulton said “well clearly Scotland and Northern Ireland don’t want it because you didn’t win there”
The Brexit man answered this by smirking and waving his hand in a dismissive manner
The words he didn’t say were *Scotland and Northern Ireland don’t count”

Funny enough I had just such an argument, more a monologue on the unionist guy’s part.

However this guy did say, “It was a UK countrywide vote and the whole of Britain voted to leave”.

So I asked him what did the initials UK stand for and he, of course replied United Kingdom.

So I said, not united country then. This only threw him for a brief moment and he insisted that everybody knew Britain was a country. I said he should try telling that to the people of the Irish Republic.

It ended up with him claiming that the UK and Britain meant the same thing. So I said that’ll be the same as calling it all England then – he decided to harrumph and walk away muttering to himself. I don’t suppose it convinced him of anything but it sure as hell demonstrated the unionist mindset.

Robert J. Sutherland

Proud Cybernat @ 13:06,

I don’t know enough about these things, but there may be no need now for an “IR2 Bill”. It may only require an executive order to apply the present bill to the purpose.

But maybe someone else knows more…?

Petra

@ Golfnut says at 12:40 pm …. ”Boris going to court, so lying to the public during the constitutional process could be deemed criminal, are you watch this better together and your media enablers.”

Spot on Golfnut. Let’s not forget about the lying that went on in the lead up to IndyRef1. The lying that led to people voting no for Independence. We would have had a case against dozens of people, if not hundreds including Brown, if we’d considered doing so. Well it may be too late for that now but this should send a warning shot across the bow of anyone thinking of lying to the Scots in the lead up to IndyRef2. We’ll be watching YOU and taking note.

……………………….

@ Dr Jim says at 12:40 pm …. ”If a wee Lassie from Ayr can work hard and rise to be First Minister of my country and take all the abusive shit she takes every day on my behalf then I can at least stand behind her and offer her every support I can to get our country back, even if it’s just leaflets through a door I’m right there.”

Well said, Dr Jim. Can anyone imagine where we would be without her right now? Westminster hovering like a vulture ready to take control over every aspect of Scotland, frack us to death and so on. Can anyone imagine what it would be like if Davidson, Rennie or Leonard were calling the shots for us instead of Nicola Sturgeon? Now is the time for everyone to get behind her and instead of putting all of your time and effort into discrediting her on here (and other so-called pro-Independence sites) why not use your precious time to focus on destroying our adversaries, most of all by using this site to get enlightening data out there.

Petra

@ Proud Cybernat says at 1:06 pm …”When the akchul IR2 Bill is passed by HR and goes to Lizzie for Royal Assent, I think that is when things will really kick-off.”

Let’s hope that Lizzie doesn’t pop her clogs before then PC or the Establishment come up with some kind of ”she’s indisposed’ excuse. And no doubt if she does sign it and we get our Independence Scotland will be accused of ‘doing her in’, lol, when she does head off to join her maker aged 93 plus.

Abulhaq

Emmanuel Macron believes the Brits will leave deal or no deal. As far as he is concerned the UK is disruptive, reactionary and something of a waste of EU space. In his view the Brit presence impedes much needed institutional reform. The Germans daren’t say that, but on the whole they agree with the sentiment. Even the anglophile Swedes now concur.
Over to you Scottish electorate, swim free or sink.

raineach

If it is correct the Presiding Officer and Lord Advocate have signed off the IR2 Bill then that deals with the legal objections to the competence of the referendum. It still leaves Westminster legislating to prevent it and/or the Tories telling their [remaining – no pun intended] voters to boycott. But still a tall hurdle passed

ronnie anderson

Boris’s lawyer asking the court to apply the financial test on the complainant , slippery as a fucking eel .

Stravaiger

Looks like a crowd finder might be needed for Alyn Smith. The Brexit party is threatening legal action over his money landerers comment.

Stravaiger

Funder, not finder.

yesindyref2

Apparently, the IR Bill is in fact a R Bill, general Referendums, and doesn’t mention Independence. Sneaky 🙂

link to twitter.com

Petra

Forget about the BBC / STV. Check out Professor John Robertson’s site to get the latest Scottish news.

link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com

Robert Louis

galamcennalath at 1223pm,

The whole lot of them Gove, Theresa May Raab, etc.. should be put in jail. The utterly criminal destruction of uk industry and wanton waste caused simply because the Tory party cannot agree within themselves on the EU.

But the two biggest wasters, who have wasted more money and caused most harm to the entire UK are Farage and Chris Grayling. Paying for Ferry contracts with NO FERRIES, continually screwing up policies at great expense to taxpayers, and so on. And Farage for everything that he denies he has done. Methinks the judge might want to dust off his now-retired black cap for them.

N.B. I speak in jest, of course, regarding the black cap – afore anybody starts greetin etc…They don’t hang people at present in England.

Terry callachan

Given that Nicola Sturgeon tried hard for another brexit referendum
If brexit is cancelled
And bercow is on record today saying that is a possibility
Because Westminster as he puts it will have its say

Will the probability of indyref2 be weakened ?
Will some Scottish people revert back to voting unionist ?

I have been hoping for brexit followed by a successful indyref2

Ian Brotherhood

@BDTT –

Have just seen the Evening Times poll you mentioned earlier. It’s a new one, very slightly different question. Perhaps they didn’t like the way yesterday’s was going.

The ‘new/improved’ poll asks ‘How would you vote in a second Scottish independence referendum?’

Votes cast so far, 8,521.

47% Yes
53% No

Here’s the link for those who would like to underscore the 66% Yes response recorded in the previous poll.

link to twitter.com

yesindyref2

I’m watching on this:

link to thenational.scot

and there’s this:

It is the intention of the Government to hold an independence referendum “towards the end of the term of this parliament” but “an accelerated timetable” should “circumstances change”, continues Russell.

I LIKE that 🙂

yesindyref2

This bill is about the “diktat of ministers”, Tomkins adds, asking why ministers should determine questions and not the parliament.

He brands the bill a “Torjan horse for a wildcast indyref2”.

As if, perish the thought 😎

Abulhaq

@Terry Callachan 1:47
A no deal Brexit would the yes deal for success in any second independence referendum.
Nicola Sturgeon is astute enough to know that. The Stop Brexit photo opps must surely be viewed in that light, I hope.

Clydebuilt

Capella @13.40 Thanks for the link . . . . Went straight to it . .. . . Mike Russell head and shoulders above the opposition.

Ian Brotherhood @1.49. Looks like you need a twitter account to vote.

call me dave

@Ian Brotherhood

Hi Ian I just voted and on my screen it’s

YES 53%
NO 47%

PS:
I don’t twitter but clicked on Sturgeon’s picture and you get to the story and vote. 🙂

rob turnbull

like ruth the mooth, richard has been humiliated so much that going back on their word comes as easy as breathing

Dr Jim

Ruth Davidson and her collection of *losers* parties (better together) has claimed she will fight the FM every inch of the way and she has *no chance* of securing another Scottish referendum

Nicola Sturgeon First Minister of Scotland MSP and leader of the SNP party of government and *winners* party said….

“I won’t waste my breath or my time arguing with a government who might not even be in office when the time comes*

Now remember folks Ruth Davidson has just promised all her “voter” and the rest of Scotland’s voters plural that she will make sure Nicola Sturgeon has *no chance*

That says two things, one, Ruth Davidson is prepared to attempt to thwart the chosen will of a democratically elected government the winners of elections and the choice of the Scottish people, think about that for a second

Two, Ruth Davidson is so arrogant she believes the Tories will win any future election, but even if they don’t Ruth Davidson is making a promise on behalf of the Labour party also to carry out her promise, who would likely be the next government in the event of an election taking place

If the Labour party in Scotland even have the slightest notion of agreeing with Ruth Davidson’s promises then such as it is the Labour party in Scotland will disappear without trace forever for joining the Tories once again

If the Liberal Democrats join her in her obsession with Nicola Sturgeon’s shoes watch the Green vote grow

galamcennalath

Mike Russell very good.

He calls (as Nicola did) for cooperation. He almost certainly believes there will be absolutely no cooperation from the Tories.

I suspect this tone of willingness to hear other views is made intentionally on the basis that they don’t actually expect it to be forthcoming from the more extreme BritNats.

I have always suspected the same for input of the devolved governments into the Brexit process, and willingness to compromise on the outcome. The SNP always knew the Tories would have none of it!

There’s a pattern and that means there’s a plan.

Patience is difficult, though!

Macart

@ yesindyref2 1.56

😉 (winky thing)

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 14:02,

For once I agree with “Two-Jobs”.

orri

I would not waste any time trying to secure an agreement with a government who might not be around to honour it when the time comes. Given we’re nearing the end of the May Government and technically even if there’s is no GE the next will be a different one then it’s pointless.

A less confusing way to put it is,

An S30 is an agreement to transfer power from one government to another. Westminster operates on the principle that no government can bind it’s successor. That means even if at this late stage May were to agree to, not grant, an S30 then the next PM’s government might repudiate it.

The way things stand an S30 might be preferred but the Westminster government is too unstable to rely on one lasting for a week never mind till a referendum can be held. A such proceeding without one may very well be the sensible option. Although if Westminster were to withdraw from an S30 that’d almost guarantee the result would be Yes.

call me dave

I see Sarah Smith has got her hands on the updated shortbread website article on the referendum bill.

That’s us telt! 🙂

PS:
TV News says that both Wales and Scotland put more money into social care than in England.

I read the other day of a council in England introducing a charge of about £29.00 to assist fallen pensioners in their homes to get back up again. 🙁

Greannach

Nicola Sturgeon’s recent conversation at the Royal Irish Academy with Dearbhail McDonald can be listened to on SoundCloud here:

link to soundcloud.com

Nana

Here’s Mike Russell’s statement for anyone who missed it

link to youtube.com

Nana

FM getting them telt!

link to twitter.com

Dr Jim

The Yes movement riling themselves up along with others helping them to rile themselves up over the FMs inability to wave her magic wand the way they want her to are all leaving the SNP and deciding that they will just get Indepndence themselves

Well I’m all for them telling me who and how all these Robin Hoods and their merry men will go about this marvellous feat that they say they can achieve better and quicker than our elected members of parliament and the FM who leads them

It never seems to occur to all these shouters that the FM might know something they don’t know or that her plans don’t include blabbing them all over social media

If I could just suggest for a moment that just because articles appear in Newspapers usually written by Yoon Goons deliberately designed to wind people up, that they please stop paying attention to the very media we all know lies all of the time

Stop falling for propaganda, they’re using the same tactic on you as they do with Unionists, and you’re being as gullible as them

Alex Salmond was great of course he was, but he did tend to blab, and while it was great for the troops everybody and his dog knew what he was planning, this FM will not blab until she’s 100% guaranteed her blab wins

If the FM fails then you’ve got a point, until then we don’t know Nuthin and they don’t know Nuthin and in my book that’s a good way to pick a fight and win it

geeo

BBC Scorched-land northern regional news, flogging the absolute need for the “permission” of a Section 30, to hold a referendum, for all its worth.

Which of course is worth zero.

Wilfully ignorant and misleading the viewer, or got one big shock coming ? (Rhetorical).

Now the 2014 indyref is “the gold standard” and any new one would need to be the same “gold standard”.

Meaning: No S.30 = no need to worry about those pesky Scots.

But hold on, not to be outdone with that batshit crazy thought train, “WM will surely want the question to not have a Yes v No choice, as that is TOO CONFUSING” !!!

Absolute zoomery write large.

BBC: fooling nobody.

galamcennalath

SNP email from Nicola just arrived ….

Earlier today we published the draft legislation that will pave the way for a new referendum on Scottish independence.

The legislation will set the rules for any referendum held in Scotland – such as who gets to vote and how the campaigns will be regulated.

Within this parliamentary term, I am determined that Scotland will have the opportunity to choose to be an independent European nation.

Throughout the Brexit process, Scotland has been treated with contempt by Westminster. Our efforts to find compromise and protect the interests of the people of Scotland, have been ignored.

Now, we face a choice between two very different futures. On one hand, being dragged out of Europe against our will and locked in to a hard Brexit with all the risks that will entail.

On the other, Scotland choosing a different and better path. As an independent country, Scotland’s future will be in Scotland’s hands and we can play our full part in the international community.

http://www.yes.scot is the new platform for our independence campaign – visit the website to sign the independence pledge, download Yes materials and get active.

We’ll soon announce more ways to get involved more directly in the campaign. You can keep up to date with all the latest developments by following Yes on Facebook and Twitter.

Now is the time to start conversations with your friends, family and neighbours.

Together, let’s make it happen.

Nicola Sturgeon
SNP Leader

geeo

McBoxheid@12.33pm

Did I even mention you ?

It was a general point to another poster on an ongoing requirement to explain something.

If you equated that to what you posted, thats your fucking problem pal.

Robert Peffers

@McBoxheid says: 29 May, 2019 at 12:33 pm:

… Did you even read my post?”

First of all just which of the two commenters you indicated in this reply are you addressing your current remarks?

However I will, going by the context, assume it is me.

” … I am well aware of the contitutional reality of the United Kingdom. Modern political precendence is also relevant to the current set up, as I went to explain in my later post.”

Err! When a reply is made to a current comment the replier has obviously not yet read your further comments.

The content of your comment replied to clearly shows you do not know the constitutional reality. Rather that you seemed to refer to the, actually illegal, constitutional actuality. i.e. The situation where the English Kingdom, while calling itself the United Kingdom, has taken it upon itself to devolve the powers if the Kingdom of England down to, not only the two pre-union annexed countries of the Kingdom of England, but also to the only equally sovereign partner kingdom in the United Kingdom”.

That, McBoxheid, is the actual, illegal, constitutional reality we are dealing with today.

This was best, and most clearly, demonstrated in a paper commissioned by Westminster in which two claimed experts claimed this, “That the Treaty of Union Extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”. This is quite simply a lie and is not mentioned in the Treaty of Union.

This claim should have set in motion a legal process via inter5national courts that the Treaty of Union was void, but it didn’t. Mainly because few people knew about the Westminster commissioned paper and the media made damned sure they didn’t.

However, the claim was then made on national TV by no less an official person than the Secretary of State for against Scotland, David Mundell.

Here he is on TV admitting it:-

link to youtube.com

… Christ almighty, every time someone mentions the union that is the United Kingdom, but doesn’t quote chapter and verse, then they are pulled up by the constitutional thought police.”

First of all I believe Christ had nothing to do with it. Second if you do not want corrected for mistakes then do not make them. Third there are no, “Constitutional Though Police”, but there are a few Wingers, me included, who do correct those who promulgate unionist propaganda for the unionist cause.

I accept that most often this may be done innocently as a result of a lifetime being subjected to unionist propaganda. However, for whatever reason, the obviously quite simple use of the wrong terms is counter productive. It seems like it may be harder to give up than for an addict to stop smoking or an alcoholic give up booze.

… I was talking about the unionist labour party and the political reality and did not want to go into the ins and outs of the union of crowns, the union of parliament and all of the relevant treaties with all the dots crossed”

Now you are exaggerating but, Hey! Whatever floats your boat. In any case you could have made your point more clearly simply by the use of the correct term for the correct entity in the first place.

Is it any harder to call a kingdom a kingdom than to wrongly call it a country, (of course only Scotland within the United Kingdom is both a kingdom and a country), are there is the problem. Think on this – if everyone in Scotland when speaking or writing about Scotland in relation to the union were to make it clear that Scotland was a kingdom and thus an equal partner in the union it would soon be the norm to regard Scotland as a partner and not a region of England.

If getting folks to discard their brainwashed thoughts and language, ” … puts people off posting and contributing in their way”, then perhaps they might, instead of taking umbrage, think a bit before propagating unionist propaganda.

Don’t you get it even yet? A big part of how Westminster has managed to cow and overrule Scots and Scotland is totally down to the way they have fixed certain ideas in their minds.

Not just by telling lies, not telling people the facts but how they think about the entire set up that is the United Kingdom.

The quicker Scots start to think of Scotland as a fully equally sovereign partner kingdom in the United Kingdom and Westminster as The United Kingdom government and not the government of England the sooner Scotland will be free.

You can complain all you want to and call me all the names you wish but I’ll tell you this – you will never upset me.

Thing is I know I’m right and all you need to do is read through Wings on almost any topic that Rev Stu has posted and you will see, probably the most obvious wrong thinking. references made to the Westminster Parliament as if it were the actual parliament of England – get this right – there is no such parliament.

England has no legal parliament and believe it or not the English are probably more aware of that than the Scots are. There is after all pressure groups calling for an independent parliament of England. Although Westminster acts as if it was the English parliament and sovereign over Scotland it is neither.

orri

One way to look at and S30 is that it takes implementing a Yes vote out of Westminster’s hands and into Holyrood’s. Insisting on one means that Holyrood doesn’t trust Westminster as far as they could throw them.

Not agreeing to an S30 simply means there’s no guarantee from Westminster that they will honour a Yes vote by redrawing their jurisdictional boundaries to exclude Scotland and it’s territories.

Patrick Roden

@ Iain moir,

Very interesting Iain, and makes a lot of sense.

Allan Watson

Listened to Mike Russells presentation of the referendum framework bill. Concise and absolutely guaranteed to wind up the the westminster sponsored parties in the Scottish parliament.

I liked the way that Mike Russell wanted everyone to take part in the discussions on this bill and present their thoughts and any input that they have.

Despite a referendum and an EU vote where the people of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU the unionist parties do not want the people of Scotland to have any say in their future.

According to them our future should be decided in westminster not Holyrood.

Democracy according to them is something only westminster can dispense.

Robert Peffers

@Dan says: 29 May, 2019 at 12:34 pm:

” … Hmm, yet they don’t appear to have a problem with some politicians getting drunk on subsidised drink at the “big parliament” and stealing things.”

Worse than that, Dan, “they don’t appear to have a problem with some politicians getting drunk on subsidised drink at the “big parliament” and stealing feeling, ‘things’.”

Golfnut

Just received an e-mail from Nicola ‘re the Referendum Bill. She refers to it as the Independent bill. No doubt now, we’re going for it. Anyone else received this yet? Are you able to post it on here.

Frank Gillougley

galamcennalath 3.11

First Minister – Within this parliamentary term, I am determined that Scotland will have the opportunity to choose to be an independent European nation.

Ther – see language? ‘An independent European nation’.

I think that is the phrase that we’ll be hearing a lot more of in months to come. It’ll do for me.

Dr Jim

Well that’s me for the week going climbing for a couple of days and if I come back alive I might make the march on Saturday

If ye don’t hear anything I’ll be a report on Scotland today

Patrick Roden

@Stravaiger,

“Looks like a crowd finder might be needed for Alyn Smith. The Brexit party is threatening legal action over his money landerers comment.”

To be honest, I hope the Brexit party win. It might teach the two faced git, to stop running his big mouth off.

Never thought I’d ever see the day when I could honestly say that, but I’m so pissed off at some of the so called ‘big guns’ in the SNP, slagging off us ‘unclean cybernats’, I would happily see them being taken to the cleaners.

I hope Nicola understands the anger we feel.

I won’t be giving that two faced creep, a penny!

Golfnut

@ galamcennalath.

Sorry should have checked the thread first.

Robert J. Sutherland

Nana @ 14:46,

That’s the stuff.

You would think that after the drubbing the Tories just received in Scotland, that they would take stock and reconsider, but instead they are getting into such a panic now they doing the very opposite. Angloposturing by Tory leadership candidates about how “strongly” they rule over us may be the “bees knees” at getting themselves noticed in England and winning the premiership on the backs of a minuscule fraction of the population, but it will not go down well in Scotland.

And maybe least well by those folk here who are still clinging to the remnants of a belief in what they were promised back in 2014. As each day passes, with each arrogant reinforcement of the Big Lies of 2014 – “equals”, “leaders” and all – independence comes a step nearer.

Robert Peffers

@Proud Cybernat says: 29 May, 2019 at 1:06 pm:

” … When the akchul IR2 Bill is passed by HR and goes to Lizzie for Royal Assent, I think that is when things will really kick-off.”

Well, Proud Cybernat, things might, “kick off”, just a wee bit earlier than that. This bill is, in itself, a bill and will also require to have Royal Assent”. Now we all know Lizzie just signs what she is told to sign and if told not to sign it we have a constitutional crisis all on its very own.

As already pointed out the Westminster Supreme Court has already acknowledged the Scottish Claim of Right, so cannot very well not recognise it now. Furthermore it has already gone to the international court so it looks like there will be no problem.

Anyway, Westminster can only attempt to stop things at the Royal Assent stage.

jfngw

Sajid Javid a man with ancestors that freed themselves from British colonialism has stamped his foot and made it clear he will always keep Scotland in its colonialist state. In fact it’s not even colonialism it is pure vassalage where the will of Scotland is subordinate to the will of England.

Robert J. Sutherland

Patrick Roden @ 15:43,

Don’t be silly. He may not have excelled himself in that episode, but the internet is indeed a lairy place and not everyone is who they pretend to be. Everyone is entitled to the odd mistake, and his sterling work in the EU has earned him some slack.

Splitterism will get us nowhere, not least the self-indulgent emotive kind, and resurrecting this issue again now to no useful purpose only serves our opponents.

Besides, in this case he is perfectly correct. +In my totally uninformed opinion.+ (As one says these days.)

Scott

Sorry O/T but sick of these barstewards.

Tory leadership race: Sajid Javid says he will put 20,000 more police officers on the beat if elected

The said Javid to deny me a vote for my country is a hypocrite.
The above statement regarding the police is why I say he is a hypocrite he could have been doing this as soon as he took over his new job and told May to bugger off but no.
I am going to keep a note of all them who says we will not get our referendum and at the top will be the Mouth Davidson who will be egging them all on.

Received an e-mail from Nicola ‘re the Referendum Bill

Welsh Sion

I know we have other more important things to discuss (e.g. the Referendum Bill), but anyone else hear that snippet that Portillo (now a train buff) is making a film about the history of Scottish nationalism for the BBC?

What’s that all about?

Robert J. Sutherland

Welsh Sion @ 16:00.

Oh boy. Portillosplaining now? What next? =grin=

Nana

Nicola’s email

Dear Nana,
Earlier today we published the draft legislation that will pave the way for a new referendum on Scottish independence.

The legislation will set the rules for any referendum held in Scotland – such as who gets to vote and how the campaigns will be regulated.

Within this parliamentary term, I am determined that Scotland will have the opportunity to choose to be an independent European nation.

Throughout the Brexit process, Scotland has been treated with contempt by Westminster. Our efforts to find compromise and protect the interests of the people of Scotland, have been ignored.

Now, we face a choice between two very different futures. On one hand, being dragged out of Europe against our will and locked in to a hard Brexit with all the risks that will entail.

On the other, Scotland choosing a different and better path. As an independent country, Scotland’s future will be in Scotland’s hands and we can play our full part in the international community.

The SNP has a mandate for a referendum on Scottish independence

jfngw

Ruth Davidson is she in Hydra mode to either cover up her trouncing at the latest election or because she knows the numbers up for the union.

Lenny Hartley

Patrick Roden @ 3:43 agree entirely, hope he gets taken to the cleaners.

Dorothy Devine

Welsh Sion it’ll have something to do with trains I’ll be bound!

Dr Jim careful on those mountains, don’t want to lose you.

Isn’t it good to know that someone who probably couldn’t find Scotland without a chauffeur can tell Scots and all who make Scotland home that they cannot have an independence referendum ’cause he says so.

jfngw

@Welsh Sion

Because it’s the BBC, Portillo is now one of their lovelies, he knows little about the subject, so is the obvious candidate. The BBC is know for employing ‘historians’, or people with the same level of history qualifications as I have, none.

It will be presented as an unbiased view, from a rampant unionist who not so long ago was punting Ruth Davidson as a hero.

If the rumour is true, but it is perfectly believable from the BBC.

Tam fae somewhere

If Boris can be dragged to court for the £350m a week for the NHS, could Broon et al be done for the vow?

Petra

@ Patrick Roden says …. To be honest, I hope the Brexit party win. It might teach the two faced git, to stop running his big mouth off. Never thought I’d ever see the day when I could honestly say that, but I’m so pissed off at some of the so called ‘big guns’ in the SNP, slagging off us ‘unclean cybernats’, I would happily see them being taken to the cleaners. I hope Nicola understands the anger we feel. I won’t be giving that two faced creep, a penny!”

Who said that we were ”unclean cybernats?” Alyn Smith? It’s no wonder that the Independence movement takes one step forward and two steps back when we’ve got people doing the Unionist controlled MSM’s job for them on here.

As to the anger that ”we” feel. Speak for yourself Patrick. The only people that I’m angry with are the people who have stolen Scotland’s past and plan to steal it’s future, such as the Farage’s of the Brexit party who have been using dark money to achieve their objective. One of their next aims by the way, if they get into power, is to shut down Holyrood. If Alyn Smith has stated that he has to be commended, imo.

Robert Peffers

Evening Times poll link:-

link to eveningtimes.co.uk

Republicofscotland

Had a brief chat with Blair Jenkins, who thinks we’ll definitely have a second indyref next year. Mr Jenkins added that he’ll be involved one way or the other.

Col.Blimp IV

60%/40% with 381 votes cast and the clock ticking…

geeo

I missed the live statement re: referendum bill.

Are the MSM deliberately not showing Ruth Davidson fulfilling her threat to lead her Tory MSP’s out of Holyrood ?

I mean, Ruth Davidson would never say something and not do it, right ?

Col.Blimp IV

61%/39% 394 votes now

Cubby

Terry Callahan @ 1.47pm

Yet another concern troll post from Callachan. Trying to take over from Colin Alexander are you Terry old boy.

yesindyref2

@Welsh Sion says:”. . . anyone else hear that snippet that Portillo (now a train buff) is making a film about the history of Scottish nationalism for the BBC?

What’s that all about?

It’s to be called “Flying Scotsman” 🙂

Capella

@ Ian Brotherhood – right. That’s it up to 55% YES and 45% NO.

Looks like the Evening Times backs multiple referendums.

link to twitter.com

Legerwood

Patrick Roden @ 3.43pm

Alyn Smith did not make any such remarks.

I suggest you read the article which you can find here

link to wingsoverscotland.com

Cubby

A masterful performance from Mike Russell in Holyrood this pm.

Worth noting in response to a labour MSP about poverty in Scotland he says:

“……. the resources of the country to the good of the country, and we can’t do that unless we have control of those resources. It is a simple issue……………..all the resources and all the effort of the country is devoted to that, and that cannot be done within the current settlement.”

Legerwood

Welsh Sion says:
29 May, 2019 at 4:00 pm
I know we have other more important things to discuss (e.g. the Referendum Bill), but anyone else hear that snippet that Portillo (now a train buff) is making a film about the history of Scottish nationalism for the BBC?

What’s that all about?””
………….

Mr Portillo is Scottish on his mother’s side. Grandfather lived in Kircaldy where MP spent some of his holidays.

Guess in the BBC’s mind that makes him supremely qualified to front such a programme.

geeo

Never mind Callachan, Cubby, he has had a weally bad day today, that nasty nicola never heeded ruthies warnings 🙂

Cubby

Welsh Sion@4.00pm

I enjoy your posts but

“What’s that all about?”

Well that’s an obvious one – a PROPAGANDA programme.

yesindyref2

Incidentally, this Bill was always described as the “Framework Bill”, covering the franchise and rules for the (any) referendum. Also as I pointed out before, taking into account consultations which presumably include comments about the Electoral Commission whose position is being limited.

link to snp.org

Robert Peffers

Well now! All those who have been stamping your feet. shaking your fists, and yelling, FMBAAADDDD! SGBBBBAAADDD! SNPBBBAAADDD!

Get your hands in your pockets.
Get your arses into gear!
Get your printers switched on and your walking boots on!

If I’m not mistaken the FM has just fired the starting pistol and you can stop your anti-indy rants and get going:-

start here:-

http://www.yes.scot

repeat:- http://www.yes.scot

Abulhaq

[Following the publication of the bill, three of the candidates to replace May as Conservative leader: Rory Stewart, Sajid Javid and James Cleverly, said they would block any request from Sturgeon to hold another independence referendum]

Stewart, I get..Javid and Cleverly I don’t but they are both, like Brutus, ‘honourable men’,

galamcennalath

Legerwood says:

Portillo is Scottish on his mother’s side … in the BBC’s mind that makes him supremely qualified

Indeed. The idea of what makes a person Scottish has changed and no doubt as with everything else the BBC haven’t been keeping up.

Time was, having a Scottish granny, wearing something tartan, and drinking whisky made you a Scot.

Now (and I hope many agree) being a Scot involves two things … 1) you contribute to society as best you can and pay due taxes here, and 2) you believe that Scotland is an equal among all the other countries of the world and deserves the same rights and respect.

You might be Scots-born, or just have Scots ancestry, but that doesn’t necessarily make you a Scot. You may have been born elsewhere but by playing a full part in your adopted country, you can be a Scot.

Portillo certainly doesn’t pass.

yesindyref2

Okey-doke
Very much worth looking at Peat Worrier’s twit-thing, and apparently he’s doing an article in The National tomorrow:

link to twitter.com

also this:

link to twitter.com

the implications of this are – very interesting!

Robert Louis

Portillo is as ‘scottishy’ as Michael Gove. Typical BBC nonsense.

What we need, what we really need from the BBC is a full account of the events of the signing of the treaty of union, but from the Scottish perspective. Free of ‘academics’ in oxford or London or Cambridge, and not the typical unionist rubbish about Scotland being in debt etc..

Of course hell will freeze over before the BBC will ever make such a documentary.

Petra

WGD:_ ‘Destroying the things you love, and being destroyed by them.’

”It’s funny how Ruth Davidson is very quick to claim that the people of Scotland don’t want another independence referendum, yet she carefully avoids saying that the people of Scotland don’t want Brexit.”..

…” The Tories themselves are destroying the UK. It’s their actions, their arrogance, their blind hatred, their inflexibility, their utter selfishness and unyielding insistence on putting narrow party interest first which will lead to Scottish independence. When they are reduced to telling Scotland that it will not be ‘allowed’ a vote on its own future, they have already destroyed 300 years of Scottish unionism. They can no longer pretend to the people of Scotland that Scotland is freely and willingly a part of the UK. They have revealed the ugly truth that Scotland is regarded as a possession.”…

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

yesindyref2

Sorry if anyone else has posted this already:

link to parliament.scot

Referendums (Scotland) Bill
[AS INTRODUCED]

Golfnut

@ Yesindyref2.

Talk about forward planning. I suspect this bill’s format is as much about post indyref as indyref itself. The SNP always stated that we would get to vote on the negotiations between Holyrood and Westminster, and they may also plan to hold an EU vote or at least the terms agreed for Scotland’s membership.

HandandShrimp

Abdulhaq

Likewise, no surprise from Stewart. The other two might be ploughing a traditionalist furrow. However none of them are front runners. Gollum I expect will strike a similar pose to Stewart but Boris and his views on “the verminous scotch” anything could happen…which is probably why the mad Col is making nice. She doesn’t trust Boris.

Raab will likely have us all shot.

yesindyref2

Ah yes, this is the bit that has some Unionists frothing at the mouth:

(7) This section does not apply in relation to a question or statement if the Electoral Commission have—
(a) previously published a report setting out their views as to the intelligibility of the question or statement, or
(b) recommended the wording of the question or statement.

LOLlerz 🙂

So the Question would be:

“Should Scotland be an independent country?” YES / NO

Because that’s what it was in 2014

Robert Louis

Petra at 522pm,

Indeed, WGd is bang on the money. It is now abundantly clear, that with this refusal of referendum, that Scotland is an English colony, a vassal state.

When a referendum on self determination is refused, the union ceases to be voluntary. It is imposed.

Imagine if the EU said England isn’t ‘allowed’ to have another brexit vote.

Cactus

Aye second your 5:09 pm comment Robert Peffers

Aye all agreed, let’s get busy everybuddy

X is ON!

yesindyref2

@Golfnut
To be honest, the SG have gone even further than I dared hope. Way further. AND it’s infra vires according to the PO (and LA).

Bastirts!

Mmm, Keen will be keening. He won’t be smiling, how unusual!

Robert Peffers

@Tam fae somewhere says: 29 May, 2019 at 4:13 pm:

” … If Boris can be dragged to court for the £350m a week for the NHS, could Broon et al be done for the vow?”

I w3asn’t going to post this as I’ve got enough numptie raging at me just now but Boris is in court under English law and Broon would be charged under Scots law and the two legal systems are different and independent.

However, I’ve no idea what Scots law is on these matters.

Robert Louis

Rory (the tory) Stewart fell apart under very gentle questioning a couple of nights ago on CH4 news. He firstly stated that if PM, he would create a ‘citizen’s assembly’ to determine brexit path, and assured JS that this would absolutely determine what he, as PM, would do. John snow then reminded Stewart that he had ruled out a ‘no deal brexit’ ,but then posed the question, what if a no deal brexit is what your ‘citizen’s assembly’ recommends? Stewart had no answer, and looked as though he genuinely had not really thought it all through. It was actually cringe worthy watching it.

He’s a political lightweight. Fluff. I mean could you imagine him standing up to the likes of Boris the clown, the ERG or Jacob rees-mogg?

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 17:19,

Thanks for those links. Aileen McHarg’s apparently authoritative comment happily confirms my upthread musings. Nifty, very nifty.

No doubt due to that “rather lawyerly” FM, amongst others. =grin=

yesindyref2

And THIS answers the PPERA thing I was “discussing” somewhere (here?) with reference to the Edinburgh Agreement (i.e. it being an “agreement” not a Westminster dictat):

A referendums framework exists under Westminster legislation – in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000.

link to news.gov.scot

I’m afraid I can not resist though I know I should do, really.

GTF!

in fact:

GTFFFFYFers GIRFUY!

Petra

@ Robert Louis says … ”Petra – Indeed, WGd is bang on the money. It is now abundantly clear, that with this refusal of referendum, that Scotland is an English colony, a vassal state. When a referendum on self determination is refused, the union ceases to be voluntary. It is imposed. Imagine if the EU said England isn’t ‘allowed’ to have another brexit vote.”

Spot on RL and what if the EU had just binned their A 50 and said to the UK forget it, we’re not letting you leave the EU because one of our political party leaders, that no one ever votes for in England, says so.

yesindyref2

@RJS
Ah, but, she’s only a very lowly and ignorant solicitor.

Waht would she know?

Bill Hume

Robert Peffers 05:09pm ….hope I got the name right..
Fuck yes……let’s get started.
Cannie wait……the starting gun has been fired and I’ve got ma’ spikes oan.

Abulhaq

@HandandShrimp 5:30
They’ll all be in the shadow of Farage trying to outdo one another in the patriotism stakes.
Nadhim Zahawi, of Iraqi Kurdish heritage has not thrown his hat in the Tory ring, yet.
Would be fascinating if he did. How would he deal with the Scottish question? Could give him some useful pointers!
Raab does karate. I believe Nicola has had secret ninja training. Would make a good manga.

Golfnut

@ Robert Louis & Petra.

They are certainly trying very hard to make people believe that they own Scotland, but we know differently.
It won’t stop the noise though.

geeo

Great to see how well todays news has been welcomed, but can i just add a cautionary note…

*(Whispers)”Shhh…..the BBC/STV/SKY news channels all think we STILL need a S.30 or we are stuffed”(Whispers)*

Whew…I don’t think anyone noticed me saying that 🙂

yesindyref2

Read this bit:

Conduct
7 Chief Counting Officer
. . .
(b) that person is unable or unwilling to be appointed as the Chief Counting Officer
. . .
(in which case the Scottish Ministers must appoint such person as they consider appropriate)

I think this and the rest covers the idea of any LA “boycott”, but could be wrong.

link to parliament.scot

Tam fae somewhere

Robert Peffers @ 5:37 pm

Doh!

Thanks ??

Robert Louis

Hey Sajid Javid, and your Tory enablers in Scotland,

it’s called The Treaty of Union, 1707, not The Treaty of Subservience, 1707.

ronnie anderson

Ian Brotherhood /Capella I wish you’s wouldn’t put these Klik Bait polls online . I ‘ve knocked back another one from the Scotsman on our Yes pages , they cant make enough money from hard copy print so they turn to Klik Bait revenues & people fall for it every time , they dont give a Fek whether is a Yes or No there counting the money Dont promote them .

yesindyref2

Ah here we go, confirmation of something I posted a few days or so back in reply to the usual “concern” crap:

(page) 6 Referendums (Scotland) Bill
(9) The council for the local government area for which a counting officer is appointed must provide, or ensure the provision of, such property, staff and services as may be required by the counting officer for the carrying out of the counting officer’s functions

Again, so much for that nonsense “boycott”.

If Davidson and Murdo or Leonard and Kelly want to boycott IR2, BE MY FUCKING GUEST. 4 votes less for “Oh NO”.

Petra

@ Robert Louis says at 5:37 pm … ”Rory (the tory) Stewart fell apart under very gentle questioning a couple of nights ago on CH4 news. He firstly stated that if PM, he would create a ‘citizen’s assembly’ to determine brexit path, and assured JS that this would absolutely determine what he, as PM, would do. John snow then reminded Stewart that he had ruled out a ‘no deal brexit’ ,but then posed the question, what if a no deal brexit is what your ‘citizen’s assembly’ recommends? Stewart had no answer, and looked as though he genuinely had not really thought it all through. It was actually cringe worthy watching it. He’s a political lightweight. Fluff. I mean could you imagine him standing up to the likes of Boris the clown, the ERG or Jacob rees-mogg?”

I saw that programme too RL and to be honest I was totally gobsmacked. I’ve read on a number of occasions that Rory the Tory is deemed to be head and shoulders above most other Tory politicians, intelligence wise, along with Gove, but his idea of a Citizens Assembly and how he would deal with their findings was mind-blowingly naive. He either hadn’t thought it through or suffers from the Tories inherent sense of entitlement in conjunction with a dictatorial attitude.

If you missed it you can hear the interview here and the issue of CA around 3.30 mins on.

As an aside Rory the Tory disnae look too weel at all.

link to youtube.com

call me dave

@yesindyref2

I’ll have to get old Bercow to have a word in your shell like young man, so exercised about this referendum framework thing, calm down… relax…it’s happening! 🙂

But it makes us all happy that your happy!

Game on I think! 🙂

Cubby

If the Britnats don’t want to vote no in Indyref2 great. It will probably be the only decent thing they have done for Scotland.

yesindyref2

@cmd
I’m having my moments 🙂

HandandShrimp

Unsurprisingly BBC HYS has comments on the independence legislation and like moths to the flame the usual suspects spout the usual drivel…but oil, but Darien, but too wee, but Krankie…there is nothing new under the sun, as it says in the good book.

t42

“This is the man who needs to wear a red scarf so that people will think he is a socialist.”

It’s to hide his rid neck!

ronnie anderson

Walkers of Aberlour waking up to the Brexit , they’ll need tae recall their Unionjackery packaging No Sale lol.

Cubby

The Tories – you cannot say you speak for the people of Scotland you didn’t get over 50% of the vote in the EU election.

The Tory leader in Scotland Truthless Davidson – speaking on behalf of the people of Scotland says there is no appetite for indyref2 having just got 12.5% of the very same EU vote on a clear manifesto of stopping a second indyref.

The Tories are not just liars they are hypocrites.

Colin Alexander

Should any Scotland-wide referendums be considered advisory?

I thought the people are sovereign in Scotland, so if they make a direct decision should ANY parliament, politician or govt be able to overrule that decision?

Cubby

As more and more of the Tory leadership wannabees decide to act the hard man re Scotland I may have to change the name of the leadership battle from the The Battle of the Bastards to the Battle of The Prison Governors. For make no mistake that is what they are announcing. Scotland is not in A Union it is in a PRISON and these people are the prison governors.

Faux democracy in Scotland.

McBoxheid