The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Coup versus coup

Posted on August 28, 2019 by

Today, a collection of UK politicians who were to all intents and purposes attempting to arrange a coup have been complaining that the government has beaten them to it by organising a coup against their coup. The fox has ambushed the chickens.

Boris Johnson’s move to prorogue Parliament for most of September and a chunk of October actually only represents a couple of weeks of extra holiday time for MPs – Westminster would be shut for most of the time in question anyway for party conference season.

The Commons would open for business again on 14 October, in time to debate the outcome of a crucial European Council summit on 17-18 October. If that meeting doesn’t provide any new deal – and it’s vanishingly unlikely that it will – then there’ll be no time for anything other than a no-deal Brexit.

But there wasn’t anyway.

Because the cold hard fact of the matter is that the opposition has no case. The UK has a democratically-elected government which is currently scheduled to run until the summer of 2022. And that government has a mandate to deliver Brexit, in any form, come what may.

It’s a common cry from Remain-supporting politicians and media alike that Johnson has “no mandate” for no-deal. But leaving all personal opinion aside, it’s simply not possible to support that argument with reasoning.

Two-and-a-half years ago, the UK parliament voted overwhelmingly – 498 to 114 – to enact Article 50, the mechanism by which a member of the European Union leaves the organisation. The terms of Article 50 are clear, and stipulate a no-deal exit unless a deal is done. The EU has already granted the UK two extensions on the timetable, which have produced absolutely nothing.

Four months later, a general election was held in which both main parties pledged to uphold the invocation of Article 50, and in which they secured 83% of the vote between them. The only UK-wide party standing on a manifesto of opposing Brexit got 7%.

If the UK had wanted to vote to stop Brexit, that would have been the time to do so. And like it or not, nothing has happened since then which provides any sort of democratic basis for overturning the result of the 2016 referendum.

There’s been a vote of no confidence in the government. It failed. An administration elected (with the second-highest share of the vote in 35 years) on a policy of enacting Brexit via Article 50 remains legitimately, if precariously, in power. Several democratic votes in the House Of Commons have failed to agree on any form of deal, leaving no-deal as the default. That’s how the Article 50 process is designed. That’s what’s meant to happen. Everybody knew that, and they voted down all the deals anyway.

The Prime Minister, who took office in accordance with the constitutional norms which also saw (for example) Gordon Brown and Nicola Sturgeon become leaders of their respective countries without new elections, has all the mandate he needs.

The electorate voted for a process in which no-deal was always a possible – arguably a probable – outcome, and it endorsed that at the ballot box in June 2017. Nobody was prevented from voting Lib Dem in that election.

Even in Scotland, which voted Remain by a large margin in 2016 and returned a majority of anti-Brexit SNP MPs, most voters actually voted for the two parties who had expressly pledged to carry out Brexit in accordance with Article 50.

(1.47m Scots voted Labour or Tory, while 1.16m voted SNP or Lib Dem.)

“Ah,” say Remainers, “but in 2017 we were still being told that it would all work out fine, so that doesn’t count.” Well, okay then. How about May 2019, when the UK should already have left the EU and it was crystal-clear that the whole thing was a trainwreck, because we’d somehow got ourselves involved in the European Parliament election?

The EU elections offered voters a free hit. Your taxes aren’t going to go up because of which MEPs you elect, your kid’s school isn’t going to close, your pension isn’t going to be cut. It’s a safe protest shot, and every party more or less explicitly made the vote a de facto second Brexit referendum.

What happened? Hard-Brexit parties won 43.2% of the vote, and anti-Brexit parties got 40%. (Labour, at best, were neutral. In reality they were still officially for Brexit, just a better Brexit.) Given a second bite at the cherry, Britain voted Leave again. And only 37% of people bothered to vote at all. Hardly evidence of a massive popular uprising.

So both Parliament and the voters have more than had their say. They’ve had chance after chance to stop a no-deal Brexit, and have taken none of them. Sooner or later injury time has to run out and the referee will blow his whistle.

The opposition are of course entitled – indeed, obliged – to take any steps within the rules to try to achieve their aims. But they’re the opposition for a reason. They lost the election. Unlike in Scotland, where a party seeking to repeat a referendum won an electoral and parliamentary mandate for their goal, no such thing has happened in the UK. Boris Johnson has not carried out a revolution. He is the PM by wholly lawful means. Democracy is prevailing.

It may yet be that a legal challenge will succeed where democratic means have failed. But we suspect that any such victory would be a Pyrrhic one, short-lived and swiftly followed by the election of a hardline Tory/Brexit Party administration.

(Labour haven’t been above 30% in the polls since the European elections, and their average over the period is just 23.8%. Since Johnson became PM they’ve led in one poll out of 18. Six of those polls have given the Tories double-digit leads, never mind the Brexit Party vote which has also been in double digits for most of them. Imagine how much further Labour could fall if all its Leave-voting seats in the north of England blamed it for denying them their Brexit.)

But in any event, we don’t think it will succeed. And the truth is that it shouldn’t, for the reasons we’ve outlined above. However terrible it will be – and it will be terrible – the UK has chosen to leave the EU on October 31, and has rejected every opportunity to change its mind. It has taken none of them. It has chosen – public and politicians alike – what’s coming, and it deserves to get what it chose.

Scotland had the chance to pre-emptively avoid the UK’s fate in 2014, and bottled it. But we also democratically chose to vote on it again. Scotland’s politicians now need to accept the UK’s choice and devote all of their efforts to assembling the lifeboats and giving their country the chance that British voters have already had and spurned.

(Imagine for a moment how we’d feel if we’d won the indyref 52-48, won a subsequent election, and it was Unionists who were now trying to stop independence in the courts or with dubious procedural shenanigans. We’d be scandalised, and rightly so.)

It’s time to get out of the UK. Let’s be normal.

Print Friendly

    656 to “Coup versus coup”

    1. HandandShrimp says:

      By and large Audit Scotland are relatively fair. It is their job to assess risk and highlight potential problems. They also give credit in their reports for good practice too.

      Strangely, for whatever reason, the media tend to obsess over any negatives and gloss over positives…no idea why that might be.

    2. Hamish100 says:

      Interesting that on the press review on the BBC Scotland John Beattie show today the errant Daily Record speaker did not deny the suggestion that with the loss of Clegg and other things happening, the paper was moving towards an independence stance.

    3. Thepnr says:

      @Hamish100

      That’s interesting, I never thought of that.

    4. Lenny Hartley says:

      Arthetty Davidson is remaining an msp she has only resigned from being Manager of the North British branch office.

    5. David says:

      Regarding shutting Parliament how about a confirmatory Queens signature

    6. Fergus Green says:

      @Briandoonthetoon

      Thanks for the links. I remember quite a few of these gigs in the Bowling Alley. The Rezillos were the best.

    7. manandboy says:

      THINK TANKS ARE LIKE GRASS – SPROUTING UP EVERYWHERE

      But are immediately and automatically believed, without scrutiny. Who funds them, who set them up, and why. They are given the same kind of respect and recognition as opinion polls. While religion is disparaged. What a joke!

      They are set up, not by the poor, but by governments and the rich – to serve their purposes. So, your a Unionist and you want to ‘demonstrate’ that the Union is best for Scotland. So you quote an ‘independent’ Think Tank to fooled the masses. Just one more propaganda tool.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/us-groups-raise-millions-to-support-rightwing-uk-thinktanks

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/12/thinktanks-crushing-democracy-pr-agenices

      List of thinktanks in the UK

      Adam Smith Institute
      Much favoured by Margaret Thatcher, the ASI’s main focus is the introduction of free market policies.

      Bow Group
      A conservative thinktank founded in 1951 to counter socialism.

      Centre for European Reform
      A pro-European but not uncritical organisation, the CER aims to stimulate debate on the future of the EU.

      Centre for Policy Studies
      Thatcher’s favourite. Generated a wealth of policy ideas in the 1970s and is looking to do the same again.

      Centre for Social Justice
      The Centre for Social Justice is an independent thinktank established, by Rt Hon Iain Duncan Smith MP in 2004, to seek effective solutions to the poverty that blights parts of Britain.

      CentreForum
      Independent, progressive public-policy thinktank providing an alternative entry-point into the political process through ideas and debates.

      Chatham House
      Chatham House is a centre for policy research on international affairs.

      Demos
      Launched in 1993, Demos has promoted a radical agenda of eye-catching, media-friendly policies.

      Fabian Society
      Founded in 1884 and affiliated to the Labour party, the Fabian Society is a major left-of-centre thinktank.

      Foreign Policy Centre
      The Foreign Policy Centre’s aim is to explore the impact of globalisation on foreign and domestic policy.

      Institute for Public Policy Research
      The IPPR rose out of the ashes of Labour’s 1987 election defeat, aiming to invigorate leftwing thinking.

      The Legatum Institute
      The Legatum Institute is an independent policy, advocacy and advisory organisation.

      New Economics Foundation
      A ‘think and do’ tank seeking to improve quality of life by challenging mainstream thinking on economic, environmental and social issues.

      New Local Government Network
      Independent thinktank seeking to revitalise local political leadership and empower local communities.

      Policy Exchange
      Small-government thinktank influential with Cameronite Tories.

      Reform
      An independent, non-party, liberal thinktank which seeks to set out a better way to deliver public services and economic prosperity.

      ResPublica
      ResPublica is an independent, non-partisan public policy thinktank established in 2009 by Phillip Blond.

      Social Market Foundation
      Dry, clever, post-Thatcherite thinktank that attempts to combine market economics with social justice.

    8. Robert Peffers says:

      O/T:

      Scotland@7 very good tonight:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEcD5PzJWU

    9. Robert Peffers says:

      @jfngw says: 28 August, 2019 at 5:55 pm:

      ” … a cushy role is about to appear somewhere.”

      Dinna fash, jfngw, Roothie wull jist gan back tae the BBC whaur she cam frae.

    10. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve always found Caroline Gardner of Audit Scotland to be ridiculous in her statements on Scotland’s economy but today’s was an absolute Doozy as she quietly and calmly did her piece to camera about Scotland’s need for more doctors and how the Scottish government couldn’t possibly meet their ambitious *ten year target*

      Should we just be changing this woman’s name to Mystic Meg now because anyone on the planet who can predict ten years into the future shouldn’t be in the auditing business, she should be in Las Vegas earning £squillions or at the very least working for Bloomberg in the buying and selling of money and souls

      Is it just because she seems like a nice gentile woman that nobody ever questions this tripe in case it upsets her, she’s more stupid than the dog food guy and you have to be a real loony to be that bad

    11. Sinky says:

      Scottish Nine news Keith Brown grilled then Tory MSP Brian Whittle asked for his opinion on what Brown had said then asked about his candidature for leader but mo as searching questions asked.
      How do the NBC keep getting away with this

    12. Robert Peffers says:

      Anyone heard how the voting is going in Shetland yet or has the carrier pigeon not arrived yet?

      I was reading yesterday about the labour candidate running down the SNP for not doing better with fast internet in Shetland. Has no one told her that broadband is a reserved matter or that the SG have been doing great things for island communities with the fastest broadband in the UK just installed on a Scottish Island by the SG scheme.

    13. Clapper57 says:

      Well that was some fan fest at channel four news for Ruth Davidson tonight.

      Greatly missed by the Tory party…how’s that then…cause from where I’m sitting, her posse, come next GE, will be more than likely eliminated WITH or WITHOUT her at the helm of the branch office….and fine well yon madam knew it.

      So she looked Boris in the eye…wanted an honest answer…is that the same Boris that she called a liar in the televised EU ref campaign debate…or another Boris…like Boris the Spider…soooooo she didn’t trust him before but NOW…cause eye contact and all that…Boris would NEVER lie to SHE who is the GREAT saviour of the Union when there’s eye contact going on….aye so he said he wants a deal…so a deal it is.

      My God Ruth your easy..so is that right Ruth….so do you expect us to believe that Ruth….why NO ( says Ruth) I expect you to DIE..via lack of food and medicines come No Deal Brexit . See you Ruth you be a Bobby Dancer so you be.

      Gush gush more gush followed by even more gush via Channel Four news…I half expected them to play the Bee Gees Tragedy ….why who WAS this GREAT politician they spoke of BTW…. and did they get the sound and film mixed up when they were showing Ruth Davidson on the screen as they were speaking about this GREAT politician.

      Oh who will save the Union now….in the name o the wee man is there no one who will replace her…cause Ruth will definitely NOT be at the helm of BT2…we all heard her…cannae justify being away fae the wain for GE so assume that is THE position come Indy Ref 2….

      You know it strikes me that when I hear journalists who occasionally pop UP to Scotland…and tell us ,the Scots, who they say IS a successful politician in Scotland…AND…what we , the Scots, really want in respect to the Union and Indy… and well just generally patronise the arse out of us….well it just makes me go all Unionist like….NOT…..mind you they always manage to interview yon well informed local people that in a previous life licked their arses and wagged their tails…aye local people shopping in local shops who seem to think the Union is like great …as in Ruth / Theresa / Bojo great.

      Am I surprised..NO……..will I mourn for her political departure…NO…will I fear her successor…NO…will it make a blind bit of difference to my opinion on Scottish Independence…YES…it will make me even MORE resolved to GETTING IT…that’s getting Independence BTW for the more naughty minded peeps who are currently suffering in silence at having to read this long winding rant wot I wrote ..and BTW I mean I will be just as… if not more determined… to get our Independence and that would be the case irrespective of whether Ruth WAS or WAS NOT at the helm of the branch office.

      Breathe Breathe…quick quick …quick quick step…breathe breathe…and I’m back in the room.

    14. stewartb says:

      manandboy @t 8:54 pm

      Your cautionary remarks about ‘think tanks’ are important

      Not all are the same but the role of ‘think tanks’ in shifting – step-by-step and relentlessly – the public policy agenda in favour of corporate, right wing interests in the USA over more than a decade is now widely recognised (belatedly) by progressives in that country.

      For example see this: http://onepercenttakers.com/conservative-think-tanks/

      “… wealthy conservative businessmen, like Charles and David Koch, have funded a number of far-right think tanks to establish a theoretical footing for their causes. Lacking all the checks and balances that keep academic research honest, these think tanks produce highly flawed and biased studies whose only purpose is to promote policies that favor the business classes that fund them.

      Think tanks are ideal for this salesmanship, because they lack many of the checks and balances that keep academia honest. Consider their differences in method (I extract one example among several listed in the article):

      – In academia, the peer-reviewed journal and the scientific conference are two important tools for keeping research honest. They allow scholars to confront their opponents and argue out their differences in sometimes brutal and extensive debate. No such policy exists for think tanks. Think tanks must be debated in the media, a severely limited forum (dealing in sound bites) which provides them with a great deal of intellectual cover.”

    15. galamcennalath says:

      Ken Clarke says, “very right-wing English nationalists” have “seized control of the government”.

      He’s certainly not wrong. Interesting to see that someone coming from a totally different background sees what we see!

      While our focus is on achieving Scottish independence the situation at Westminster has gone completely mad and that has huge bearing on our cause. At the same time it represents a massive threat AND a huge opportunity. Robust action is needed from the SNP, Scottish Government and Holyrood. Maybe not this week, but soon, very soon!

    16. robertknight says:

      Ñot since Lunardi in 1785 has Edinburgh been graced with such a magnificent balloon full of hot air as the venerable Truth Davidson.

      It’ll take a while to get used to her not appearing on TV with such regularity; unless 8 Out of 10 Cats runs out of contestants – Truth and Susan Calman will just have to draw straws…

    17. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      News coming out of Shetland tonight is that it’s a close run thing but some optimism might be in order

      It would be earth shattering if we pulled this one off, good luck to the young lad Tom Wills

    18. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 21:30,

      I detected a very different tone from Nicola in an article in the paper today. Quoth her: “we have to get the [referendum] legislation on the statute book”, and it seemed to me more like ASAP than “in the fullness of time”.

      Which is encouraging.

    19. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clapper57 @ 21:26,

      What you were observing was the first “grieving” stage of the loss of hope of the pseudo-liberal wing of the English Establishment. It’s not so much about the actual person Ruth, it’s more about the ignominious exit of their puffed-up empire-saving champion.

      Just another dunt in their exceptionalism, and by no means the last in what’s to come.

    20. Ruth was told to leave with a bit dignity or be forced out without any dignity,

      Boris is clearing out his detractors/enemies setting up with those loyal to him,

      Ruth picked the wrong side so it`s `spending more time with family` line,

      I think the BBC and STV are holding a minute silence to `remember` the sacred Colonel Ruth.

    21. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      a very different tone from Nicola

      In full …. “I want there to be an independence referendum, I am determined there will be an independence referendum, we have to get the legislation on the statute book but that is very clearly about giving the people of Scotland the choice of independence which I am absolutely certain, and become more certain by the day, is a choice more people in Scotland will take.”

      I agree. More robust talking.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17866466.first-minister-boris-johnson-made-independence-inevitable/

    22. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 29 August, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

      ” … I detected a very different tone from Nicola in an article in the paper today. Quoth her: “we have to get the [referendum] legislation on the statute book”, and it seemed to me more like ASAP than “in the fullness of time”.
      Which is encouraging.”

      Oh! For heaven’s sake! Are you for real?

      The matter was already being pushed through Holyrood as a priority from the very start. How the hell can her tone be any different?

      The SNP were pushing it as an emergency bill through Holyrood from the very start – there could be no way it could be pushed any faster or harder that it already is. So why would her tone need to be changed?

    23. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robert J. Sutherland @ 10.01pm

      Aye…you’re no wrong there Robert…did ya make it tae the end o ma rant….if ya did ….yir a better man than me…and I’m no even a man I’m a woman…. that writes like a man…walks like a man…talks like a….woMAN..for all Four Seasons…Lol

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Scot Finlayson says:

      Boris is clearing out his detractors/enemies setting up with those loyal to him,

      Indeed. One way to look at it is as a move from British Nationalism and Unionism to blatant English Nationalism. Replacing British Nationalists with English Nationalists.

      English Nationalists in Scotland? Those who adhere to the notion of a Greater England rather than a Union or a United Kingdom, are undoubtedly English Nationalists. Heavily Anglicised, wannabe English, they just want everything in these isles to be in the image of SE England and ruled absolutely from down there.

    25. what on earth will the BBC do without their Ruth?

      They created her, promoted her, protected her and she was their voice.

      It will take ages for the BBC to manufacture a new spokesperson in Scotland

    26. jfngw says:

      McConnell, Stephens, Goldie, Gray, Lamont, Scott, Murphy, Dugdale, Davidson, unionist party leaders seen off by the SNP since 2007.

      Who’s next?

    27. Effijy says:

      BBC 1 showing a documentary with clips of Salmond Vs Darling.
      With the usual loaded BBC audience they turned against Salmon
      And supported Flipper Darling who despite claiming to be a Trotskyite
      Is one of the richest Champaign socialists with his ermine robes and part
      Time jobs with the bankers playing out fortunes for a few hours consultation
      Per month.

      Another Tory plant in Labour with pockets bulging while millions live in poverty.

      A man miserable enough to only dye his eye brows.
      They aren’t white,they are Tory Blue

    28. Breastplate says:

      Cadogan Enright, that was my thinking when I heard she was stepping down.
      All that investment that the media in general and the BBC in particular had put into project Blunderbus and now they have to find a replacement, a sad day for them, what a shame, hee hee.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      cadogan Enright says:

      They created her, promoted her, protected her and she was their voice.

      Indeed. It always was an unstable setup, though. She always represented the most noxious branch of BritNattery and most of their efforts went into disguising that reality. With events at the core of her party moving it even further to the right, the Ruth Davidson Party veneer was about to disintegrate. Basically they had been polishing a turd, and that turd was beginning to become even smellier.

      It will take ages for the BBC to manufacture a new spokesperson in Scotland

      It’s probably too late. Campaigning for the Union, either by deceit or by coverup, is becoming increasingly difficult for them. Too many eyes are open to reality. Too many BritNat arguments have been debunked. There seem very few unionist activists on the streets. And as I opined above, British Nationalism is being replaced with English. How can they sell Scots a UK headed by Johnson and his chums?

    30. Gary says:

      I completely agree (almost) If you are a unionist and a democrat you have to accept fully that this vote must be enacted and, as no alternative method of enacting the vote has been found, then it WILL be a no-deal exit by default. However, just because there is no deal upon UK’s exit from EU doesn’t mean there will NEVER be a deal. I imagine smaller deals, accommodations and emergency measures will be put in place retrospectively.

      The only point where I disagree is where you talk of voting for parties which promised to leave and therefore count those votes as ‘support’ for Brexit. This is not the case. As they always say ‘political parties are broad churches’ Many Labour voters, for example, will blindly vote for them as they ‘generally’ support their policies but will, no doubt, be against several of them too. They’ll vote Labour because they can’t stomach the Tories and feel that the LibDems betrayed the electorate in coalition for example. ALL VOTES are tactical. LibDems voting Labour to keep the Tories out, and vice versa for the same reason. Tories voting LibDem to keep Labour out. And so on.

      I’ve heard many politicians use this same flawed argument to justify having a ‘people’s vote’ (what other kind of public vote is there?) It’s disingenuous for them to say that and the same applies here.

      One thing that all of this proves is that not having a written constitution is not to the advantage of the people of the UK. Politicians will use and abuse this when it suits, it’s already happened many times and many times Scotland has suffered as a result.

      In an independent Scotland I’d like to see a written constitution, a bill of rights and strict rules about how we are governed and have the PEOPLE as sovereign, not a remote senior citizen who knows nothing of real life…

    31. Grey gull says:

      Sarah Smith noticing a change in the mood of Scottish voters. This is what she has written in her article on the BBC website about Ruth resigning
      “ I realise that anecdotes are not evidence but I am struck by how frequently I hear people all over the country saying that they have now changed their minds and would vote for independence if there was another referendum.”

    32. AndyMcKangry says:

      Any exit poll from Shetland yet??

    33. Daisy Walker says:

      Re the legal action re Proroguing WM, it is really throwing up some interesting possibilities.

      They have utilised (and quite rightly so, since its in Scotland) the Claim of Right and the fact that the Crown has a duty to protect Sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

      It is putting it right at the heart of the UK wide fight, and in effect getting it (and by extension the Crown’s lesser responsibilities to its English subjects) first billing on a UK stage.

      I don’t think the Crown is going to like that level of scrutiny. Not much in the way of purring just now I think.

      And of itself, it is a legal argument which seems fairly straight forward (and one that has been through the courts before). What comes out of that? Judgement wise?

      If they rule that the Queen can shut the English parliament (over which she is Sovereign) but not the bit that rules over Scotland (where the Queen has a duty to protect the Sovereignty of the people of Scotland)…. then there’s going to be an English stooshie.

      If they rule that they cannot treat English subjects in a lesser manner than the Scots (how very European of them) and extend the Claim of Right remit to English subjects, then every English Nationalist Leave voter is going to be pissed off (even more than normal). But more than that they create a legal precedent which diminishes the Crown’s Sovereignty in/over Westminster. Oh dearie me.

      And if they clearly separate the 2, and point out the obvious – that the Scots have their own parliament – then they come very, very close to dissolving the Union, all by themselves. (Which in reality – since Scotland voted stay and England voted go – is a pretty realistic state of affairs when you think about it.)

      One thing I’m fairly sure of, is the English pro-remainers who have been so very very keen to have Scotland ‘fight’ Brexit and strangely silent about the Democratic deficits dished out to Scottish voters by WM, will not have seen this one coming in the slightest.

      And since this action has been taken now, while we are still a part of the EU, the European Court of Justice will be looking on with interest I suspect.

      By proroguing parliament Boris has enabled Scotland’s Claim of Right and the Crown’s different legal duties to Scots and English to be challenged full on centre stage – and with willing (if un-knowing) English helpers alongside.

      The more one looks at this, the more it looks like the kind of constitutional can of worms that the Queen never, ever wanted opened.

      Somehow I don’t think Boris is in the good books tonight.

    34. Dr Jim says:

      Michelle Thompson on Scotland tonight not allowing Rona Dougall to promote the deification of Ruth Davidson or the notion that her resignation is all about “family”

      Oh and Leah Francetti, Labour party nobody claims it was Labour who saw off us Nats in 2014 with their *pooling and sharing* propaganda

      Michelle Thompson laughed silently as Ms Francetti caimed there wouldn’t be another referendum unless it was in the far distant future

    35. robertknight says:

      If there isn’t… perhaps they need to reassess the postal votes.

    36. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 22:11,

      Oh dearie me, more boring bombast from Puffer. =yawn=

      Not so very long ago we were going to have the referendum a whole year from now. Forgotten already? Maybe just the teensiest hint of a change of pace now, no? (Others seem to have noticed too, funnily enough.)

      But you’re quite the one for rewriting history on the fly so that you’re always right, aren’t you?

      “Are you for real? wibble, wibble.” Pathetic.

    37. Capella says:

      AUOB organiser charged. Aberdeen Councillors – Labour /Tory coalition

      Man charged over independence procession conditions after Aberdeen march – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-49485883

    38. Sarah says:

      Have we no friends in Shetland to give us a hint from the polling stations?

    39. dadsarmy says:

      The UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill WAS put through as an Emergency Bill “The Parliament has agreed to treat this Bill as an Emergency Bill and has set dates for Stages 1, 2 and 3.”. Introduced on 27th February 2018, passed through Stage 3 on 22 March 2018 – just over 3 weeks later.

      https://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/107725.aspx

      The Referendums (Scotland) Bill was NOT put through as am Emergency Bill. Introduced on 29th May 2019, it’s still not even finished Stage 1 – that’s 3 months later.

      https://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/111844.aspx

    40. Clootie says:

      Hello Shetland, anyone there?

    41. Tartanpigsy says:

      Boring and repetitive as I may be, perhaps the fact that this is now attracting yoon trolls on Twitter might make some of you swithering as to the need for yet more flags and paraphernalia get those dusty wallets out and ease my increasing blood pressure…
      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

    42. manandboy says:

      Let’s face it. If you accept that Brexit is a political avalanche – then Scotland is sitting right on top of it being carried downhill, with very little real control or influence on where it is going or what happens next.
      All this is a consequence of the Treaty of Union 1707 and the English understanding and application of what that really means in terms of who is boss in the UK. For generations, the English Establishment have talked about partnership and equality, but this has been nothing more than empty rhetoric mixed with Colonial patronising and financial exploitation.

      So, we daily check Brexit’s progress on the Unionist media, to find out how we are placed, and measure it against our hopes and aspirations for Independence. We conclude that in Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson, Scotland has very hostile opposition.

      Onward, relying on our faith in the sovereignty of the people of Scotland and the justice of the cause of Independence, we constantly confront a corrupt Colonial mentality at Westminster, whose only ambition is to control and exploit any asset within its reach, and, in particular, Scotland.

      The difference for Westminster, between the EU and Scotland, is that with Scotland, Westminster can do what it likes, while with the EU, England has to do what it is told.

    43. Sarah says:

      @Tartanpigsy: in the morning, promise!

    44. jfngw says:

      Watched some of BBCNewsnight eulogy to Ruth Davidson, full of the usual BS. They claim she was an election winner but failed to tell us which election she actually won, pointed out Labour came fifth in the recent EU election but forgot to mention the Ruth Davidson candidates came fourth. A toast to her greatness by omission, it’s the BBC way.

      Couldn’t watch the whole piece, you have to retain your sanity.

    45. kapelmeister says:

      SNP hold the East Kilbride Central North ward in the council by election.

      SNP vote up 4%.
      Labour vote down 11%. Tories down 4%.

    46. Daisy Walker says:

      Shetland result due to be announced 0230 hrs. For info.

    47. Heart of Galloway says:

      Full EK result:

      East Kilbride Central North (South Lanarkshire) first preferences:

      SNP: 46.5% (+4.2)
      LAB: 20.3% (-11.3)
      CON: 14.6% (-4.1)
      LDEM: 12.4% (+9.9)
      GRN: 4.5% (+0.6)
      UKIP: 1.4% (+1.4)
      LBT: 0.4% (+0.4)

      SNP HOLD.

      Fantastic result.

    48. Cactus says:

      Aye it’s all a happenin’ and all is to PLAY for!

      re imminent Shetland vote result: ahm ah right that turnouts are usually at about between 30 to 40% for local elections… if so, ah’ll guess a 42% turnout, might even be a lot higher?

      62 days and counting:
      https://howmanydaystill.com/its/halloween-brexit-19

    49. Hamish100 says:

      EK result good

      Snp & Greens over 50%

    50. manandboy says:

      Ruth Davidson is but an example of the current belief that the old culture of truth and justice, of fairness and equality, is now out of fashion, and not suited to modern life in the 21st century.

      The majority of this generation of politicians seems to believe instead, that success and promotion can only be achieved by corruption, lying, and treating the voters as if they were ignorant and lazy fools, whose main purpose in life is to watch television, drink alcohol and take drugs, to anaesthestitise themselves against the discomfort of living in a Tory world.

      To those so elected to very substantial salaries and generous expenses, this is all fine and dandy. But to those excluded from the Gravy Train and the good life at taxpayers expense, this is no longer acceptable, given the excess on display.

      It should be no surprise that we live in changing times.

      A slave is not expected, in the event of his freedom, to be responsible for the consequences of his masters loss. So also with Scotland. England is best able to take care of itself.

      It most certainly has done so in the past – at great expense to colonies like Scotland.

    51. Daisy Walker says:

      Re WM protocalls.

      Any bill not ratified before the queens speech – falls by the wayside and has to start again after the queens speech… so if they can vote for cancelling A50 but not get it through the HoLords…. start all over again.

      And, queens speech, plus debates thereafter take up 4 parliamentary days.

      And, Boris is looking at implementing some new bank holidays into the mix so parliament cannot be called.

      So, far, at the very least proroguing parliament has reduce available parliament days down from 22 to 15.

      Good article about it over on Buzzfeed.

    52. Cactus says:

      Some information and stats on oor…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland

      Population: 23,210 / 23,217 (as of 2012 / 2018)
      Area: 566 square miles

      Ah’ve yet to go visit Shetland

    53. Dr Jim says:

      Jeremy Corbyn says No Scottish referendum, then he says If the people want a referendum then it’s up to the Scottish parliament, then he said No Scottish referendum, now he says I’ll ask the SNP to hold off on a Scottish referendum for a while if they’d be so kind

      It’s kinda no wonder this man has virtually no chance ever of winning an election in any country, he’s senile

    54. Dr Jim says:

      I see HYFUD has gone back to Trolling the FM again

    55. HandandShrimp says:

      Turnout in Shetland is nearly 67% That is mightily impressive for a byelection.

    56. Dr Jim says:

      I wonder how many were postal votes seeing as the *turnout* was so high

    57. manandboy says:

      Proroguing Parliament has put Brexit into a a lower gear, but with consequently higher engine speeds. Understandable, when you are about to overtake the Parliament container lorry so as to leave it behind.

      Make no mistake however, Johnson has two targets, not just Leaving the EU. He also has to ‘keep’ Scotland away from independence.

      So, Scotland , remember – Independence is normal and healthy.
      Since 1945, 150 countries have chosen independence. Many are smaller than Scotland with far, far fewer natural resources. None of them needed permission, as England would have Scots believe.”

      So think only Yes to Independence for Scotland.

      One of the big consequences of No Deal, will be a new Alliance with the USA of Donald Trump, in which Trump will want a very big piece of Scotland.

    58. Cactus says:

      If you’d like to hear the results from source…

      Shetland Islands Broadcasting Company (radio)
      http://www.sibc.co.uk/

      Radio ROCKS!

    59. dadsarmy says:

      Certainly not Cactus I’m not staying up to hear the result you hear? No, I just happen to be idling away not wanting to go to bed and not remotely interested in what’s happening in Shetland. And so I wouldn’t know they’re counting the last batches.

    60. call me dave says:

      Jings! Just read in The National (twitter) oor Morag frae Dundee
      (my hero) caused a stooshie wie shortbread this morning on call Kaye. Subject Brexit and Ruthie.

      Apparently she never got to finish a sentence for interruptions
      from the host. Morag is a strong supporter of Scotland and knows her eggs. Kaye was not amused Morag was unplugged.

      I hear her often on radio 5 mostly putting them darn Sarf right on all things Scottish political & cultural & geographical. 🙂

      Might give a listen on the player tomorrow.
      ——————————————————

      Right now for the count to be declared.
      Listening in on that cactus link. 🙂

    61. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ dadsarmy, how be ye do, exciting stuff aye 🙂

    62. Cactus says:

      BREAKING: They’re going for a recount!

    63. call me dave says:

      Any clue who asked for recount?

      Hope it’s not a ‘close but no cigar’ 🙁

    64. dadsarmy says:

      I just found this, which is refreshingly different:

      https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2019/08/28/election-letter-vote-snp-stop-boris/

      As a life long Labour Party member and former Scottish Labour candidate for the Scottish Parliament (with strong Green sympathies ), who has been impressed by our candidate’s campaign, I am obliged to make this urgent appeal to all readers, seize the day and deliver the result the UK, Scotland and Shetland needs: Vote SNP, stop Boris.

    65. Cactus says:

      Howde do call me dave

      Ah was gaun back tae the future there 😉

      Results on NOW

    66. call me dave says:

      Aye missed some of them them link failed but it didn’t sound good! 🙁

    67. call me dave says:

      Lib Dem hold. not close.

    68. Liz g says:

      Call me Dave @ 2.43
      Lib dems got it 5000 odd
      SNP second 3000 odd

    69. TJenny says:

      Lib Dems hold with @5k to SNP @3k, I think, couldnae quite make it out. :=(

    70. call me dave says:

      3000+ SNP
      5000+ LibDems

    71. call me dave says:

      SNAP!

    72. dadsarmy says:

      Oh well.
      2016
      Lib Dems Tavish Scott Votes 7,440 67.4%
      SNP Danus Skene Votes 2,545 23.1%

      2019
      Lib Dems Beatrice Wishart 5,659 votes 47.8% (-19.6%)
      SNP Tom Wills 3,822 votes 32.3% (+9.2%)

      I think.

    73. dadsarmy says:

      2016
      LibDems 7,440 67.4%
      SNP 2,545 23.1%

      2019
      LibDems 5,659 47.8% (-19.6%)
      SNP 3,822 votes 32.3% (+9.2%)

    74. Dr Jim says:

      Just reading some Lib Dem history on Shetland, apparently they were dead against the reduction of the voting age to 16-17 year olds and complained the SNP were brainwashing the young into being lefties and demands were made to RAISE the voting age to 25 years because their young folk weren’t smart enough in the ways of the world

    75. call me dave says:

      The entrails have shown SNP% up and LibDems% down a lot. 🙂

      Labour 6th place Jings!

      As somebody famous used to say “and so to bed”

    76. Dr Jim says:

      The Lib Dems have lost 20% of their vote, apply the swing to the SNP nationaly and the only opposition to the SNP in Scotland would be one Liberal Democrat MP

    77. Meg merrilees says:

      Dr Jim, Shetland Times saying that the postal vote
      was 83%. Plus reading various articles that it was a two horse race between Liar dems and SNP and that a lot of people were voting tactically to try and keep out the really bad SNP party.

    78. Artyhetty says:

      Were the postal votes higher in number than other elections in Shetland, I hear there were quite a few of them, considering the population. Great to see SNP make significant gains, not an easy task for sure. Lots of bile from Britnats on twitter, as usual. A lovely lot aren’t they.

      Interesting what you say DrJim@ 3.07am. Lib dems wanted young people to be denied voting rights until they are 25! Wow, how positively democratic of them. Can’t be too many under 25’s voting for them then! Two faced lying cheats really, tuition fees, now that’s something they will not be forgotten for lying about. Once a liar to the people, always a liar to the people.

      Goodnight all. No doubt the Britnats will be wetting their knickers at the result, best stay away from tv, and radio tomorrow.

    79. dadsarmy says:

      Kind of looking over the previous elections and percentage shifts and I do think Carmichael is in danger in a snap GE. Wonder what SGP will think.

      To bed!

    80. Meg merrilees says:

      Report from Shetland Times and their letter page: –

      11835 votes cast, 2414 were postal votes which would have been cast before Boris prorogued. Postal vote being described as … a whopping 83%..
      and it seems that ironically, the hardest Brexiteers voted tactically for the National Party that is determined to stay in the EU.
      How confusing is that!

    81. Hamish100 says:

      So the SNP after all this time win a local by-election in East Kilbride with an increase in vote and comes second in Shetland with a much increase in vote. Libs down 19%.

      A good showing. Many people moving to SNP will not go back to their previous party allegiance.

      Let’s see how long before the lib dems support the tories again.

    82. Giving Goose says:

      What an ungracious speech by the LibDem winner, who will challenge the Scot Gov re
      “…empty promises for fair ferry funding, to improve nursery provision, mental health care, broadband.
      Broadband is reserved to London, is it not.
      Do I detect a lie in the acceptance speech?

    83. Simon Curran says:

      Re. Shetland. Hardly a ringing valediction for Ruth Davidson, signing off with the Conservative candidate getting a measly 3.6% of the vote. Not a great night for the Lib Dems either, they might have retained the seat but should be worried at seeing their vote drop by almost 20%.
      Like Giving Goose I too thought Ms Wishart’s acceptance speech less than gracious, ‘SNP bullying tactics’, really?

    84. Breeks says:

      Dear God, when will this adulation for Ruth Davidson ever stop? It’s more disingenuous and insincere than cigarette advertising.

    85. kapelmeister says:

      Cole-Hamilton has issued a brilliant piece of spin via his twitter. Apparently all us pro independence people should
      be unhappy because the SNP vote of 32% was 4% less than the Shetland Yes vote in 2014.

    86. Bobp says:

      To the 5.659 lib dem voters on shetland, what are your aspirations?.

    87. HYUFD says:

      Simon Curran There was a swing of over 2% from Scottish Labour to the Scottish Tories and also a swing from the LDs to the Tories which applied nationally will please Boris.

      The SNP did alright but they were starting from a low base given the Tavish Scott personal vote so while the LDs held on made inroads

    88. Legwarmers Rockhard, Red Tory Branch Manager, the Shop Steward who came in from the cold, ‘fobids’ us to hold a second Independence Referendum backed by the incredible endorsement of a whopping 1.6% of the vote.
      Like Cornwall and the Anglo centrically described ‘West Country’, Shetland will always sit on the fence.
      When they are dragged out of the EU in 9 weeks’ time, what then?
      Nice to see that there is at least one female in the Beige Branch Office now, that sad wee huddle crouched around Wee Willie Winkie.
      Saves him making the tea all the time.
      The drop of 20% will not be lost on the Beige Tories.

      Swinson of the tortured larynx may be toast in a few weeks’ time when Boris The Impaler calls a UKGE, his eugenicist Cummings SPAD’s cunning plan from the get go.

      Johnson as PM, Farage as Deputy, in a Confederation of the Elite.

      They needn’t worry about ferries to Shetland thereafter; no European tourists, and the Jocks on the Mainland won’t be setting money aside for holidays for a decade or so.
      Unless we act now, and leave England to its terrible fate.

    89. AndyMcKangry says:

      Aye Jack!! But as the leaders of the Fence Sitters Party always maintain, “We voted to remain in both Unions!! ( fingers in ears, eyes shut, singing la la la)
      As with no voters in 2014, plague and pestilence on them all!!
      Too far???

    90. Abulhaq says:

      Scotland, to survive beyond a history book footnote, has to sever its links with the rotting core of the UK Raj.
      Under the new dispensation the means no longer matters, that it is done with all speed, skill and determination certainly does.
      No more ‘legalism’, no more pathetic Brexit fixated ‘pissing in the wind’, the cosy devolutionist SNP needs to smarten up and strategically accommodate the latest extraordinary moves to advantage.
      Make some mischief.

    91. manandboy says:

      https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1166976091602464774?s=19

      To this group of Tory Cabinet Ministers, lying is as easy and as frequent as breathing. But they are not exceptional.

      Lying to this Tory Government can get you deported.

      Tories WATP = We are above the Law.

    92. Terry callachan says:

      The odd things about the Shetland election is that some candidates don’t even live on Shetland and there were several candidates standing as independent when clearly they are not independent and also a fifth of the votes were postal that’s a lot

    93. HYUFD says:

      Kapelmeister The 32% the SNP got last night in Shetland was still below the 37% the SNP got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015 even if the SNP got a swing from 2016

    94. Republicofscotland says:

      So Corbyn does a deal with his branch manager in Scotland Leonard to block a second indyref.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17869398.snp-attack-jeremy-corbyn-indyref2-deal-richard-leonard/

    95. Meg merrilees says:

      Much hand wringing over Truthless’ departure- who will lead the Union cause now. Naughtie spouting rubbish on BBC R4 this morning calling on Adam Tomkins who prophesied that the SNP will tumble following Salmond court case.
      Naughtie interestingly went on to say …. if the case comes to court!…They then asked wee Willie who said the Unionists are bloody furious about the SNP going on about Indy and they just want this court case as soon as possible and are frustrated that no one knows when that will be. Naughtiest then said that the SNP has been in power for 14 years and turned to Ian Murray who holds the safest seat in Scotland for his pronouncements.
      I mention of the E Kilbride council election nor Shetland results and again stating that the polls have not changed, no swing to the SNP, nothing to see here. The Union is safe. Over and out.

    96. Joe says:

      Its interesting how many people are saying ‘SNP need to do this’, ‘SNP need to do that’.

      No, you need to stop thinking about the SNP and thinking of an alternative. Like if the Wings party comes along.

      Dont get me wrong – I think Scotland needs another leftist pro EU ‘independence’ party (lol!) as much as Europe needs more Islam. I mean seriously – its the centre-right you need to win, not more economically illiterate, historically ignorant, righteously naive social justice types. But we work with what we have.

      The SNP takes their orders now from supranational groups and your independence is a carrot with which to lead you the way they want. Thats why they prioritise cancelling Brexit (or seriously diluting it) over taking the opportunity for independence. It is also incidentally why women’s rights are being marginalized. Your vote in the spirit of a free Scotland is being used to empower a different agenda.

      Remember pre 2007 (before the SNP gained government in Scotland) all those thick ‘Labour forever’ voters we complained about? How they’d vote for anyone who wore that red badge regardless of what they did? That’s where we are going with the SNP.

      Besides, there’s nothing healthier for politics than letting your elected officials know that you are very, very happy to kick them to the kerb should they start to take the piss.

    97. Terry callachan says:

      Quite a lot of people on Shetland do not own a car and Shetland consists of a lot of islands so the high number of postal votes is in my opinion understandable

      Over the last decade a lot of people moved to Shetland and Orkney to start a new life the rise in the number of people of retirement age in Shetland compared to a decade ago is about 60% compared to 25% for Scotland as a whole which suggests that a lot of the people who moved to Shetland and Orkney over the last decade were older folk.

      It’s interesting that several of the uk newspapers carried stories about the attractiveness of getting away from it all lifestyles on these Scottish islands over the last decade.
      It is noticeable that a lot more English people now live on Orkney and Shetland and as we have seen in general nearly all of them vote against Scottish independence , hardly a surprise is it.

    98. Terry callachan says:

      Looks like Westminster is trying to convince people in Scotland who normally vote labour or Tory but don’t want to do so anymore that they should vote Lib Dem .

      Just the usual story Labour Tory Lib Dem all three fighting against Scotland getting independence
      and as each of them has a crisis their voters move to one of the other two but the SNP keeps making ground because independence is the best thing for Scotland

    99. manandboy says:

      Ruth Davidson’s resignation announcement did not include any details of her doubtless already in place new career move. What is virtually certain however, is that it will be just like Kezia Dugdale’s, in that it will be within the Establishment’s protected circle, like the BBC for example. We’ll find out soon enough.
      One thing which is almost certain about truthless ruthless Ruthie’s new ‘job’, is that it will enable her to exercise her hatred of the SNP and Scottish Independence, as well as her ability to lie with consummate ease in the service of British Nationalism, and be given time on TV to broadcast it.

      And, yup , you’ve guessed it – she’ll still be on the Gravy Train.

    100. Oh, please, Stu, have a look at Tom Gordon’s insane piece today over at the Dying Swan that it Herald Britland.
      Apparently the Blue Tory Branch office can do without a leader until April 2020, and that failed businessman the ruddy faced Jackson Carpark, who clearly attended the same elocution classes as Swinson of the tortured larynx, will step in as First Sub because he did such a great job sorting out NS at FMQ when Supermom was off on Mat Leave.
      What are you on, Tom?
      Carcrash is described as ‘forensic’ and when that Sex Pest Salmond case finally comes to court, timed no doubt when Indyref2 gets underway, Jackson Carparts will be at his sleaziest crummiest best muck raking, which will of course see millions of YES voters voting Blue Beige and Red Tory, and join Little England as it plummets past the white cliffs of Beachy Head on its way to a glorious Charge Of The Light Brigade end on the crashing surf below.

      ncredibly Gordon tips Murdo the Failure, Adam WATP Up To Our Knees, Jaime Greene and the giant Blancmange Miles Briggs as possibles.

      Scoop Gordon needs to ventilate his garden shed properly; he’s sniffing too much glue when he’s building his model Spitfires and Hawker Hunters.

      If the Blue Tories can do without a manager of the Branch Office for 7 months, is there any need for us to fork out an extra £21,000 p.a., for Crabunkle to be slapped down by NS every week?
      Apart from Davidson’s brief return to promote her book, that will mean the the poor souls will have been without a Branch Manager for the thick end of a year and a half, and nobody really noticed.
      Tom Gordon thinks that Jackson is ‘forensic’?
      Ye gods.
      Get up off your knees, man.

    101. Mac says:

      @Joe
      You need to go back to your supervisor and ask for more training on how to write convincingly and against your internal beliefs. You certainly don’t speak for me. And I expect many others. Your agenda is hanging out and flapping in the wind, like the arse of your Union Flag underpants.

      Its interesting how many people are saying ‘SNP need to do this’, ‘SNP need to do that’.

      No, you need to stop thinking about the SNP and thinking of an alternative . Like if the Wings party comes along.

      Dont get me wrong WE WON’T – I think Scotland needs another leftist pro EU ‘independence’ party (lol!) as much as Europe needs more Islam. I mean seriously – its the centre-right you need to win, not more economically illiterate, historically ignorant, righteously naive social justice types. But we work with what we have.

      The SNP takes their orders now from supranational groups and your independence is a carrot with which to lead you the way they want Thats why they prioritise cancelling Brexit (or seriously diluting it) over taking the opportunity for independence. It is also incidentally why women’s rights are being marginalized. Your vote in the spirit of a free Scotland is being used to empower a different agenda.

      Remember pre 2007 (before the SNP gained government in Scotland) all those thick ‘Labour forever’ voters we complained about? How they’d vote for anyone who wore that red badge regardless of what they did? That’s where we are going with the SNP.

      Besides, there’s nothing healthier for politics than letting your elected officials know that you are very, very happy to kick them to the kerb should they start to take the piss.

    102. Dan says:

      Alistair Carmichael, King of Brass Necks and lying infamy comments on Shetland bi-election result:
      “If that was neck and neck, all I can say is that’s some neck”.
      He also added:
      “I think people in Shetland were threatened by the SNP, they sought to misrepresent the fantastic work that Tavish Scott did for Shetland over 20 years, and I think they have frankly had a pretty harsh judgement.”

      How much did his antics in the Frenchgate matter cost the taxpayer?

    103. Effijy says:

      Saw the Lib Dem winner up in Shetland on TV.
      She seemed so dull and boring.

      I think the Lib Dem’s should pun their rosette on an old Scarecrow
      At the next election to see what kind of majority it comes up with.

      Are they a cult like the moonies on these islands?

      Liar Carmichael wastes £1000,000 and they still vote him in.
      They can see what Boris who hates us has in store and they
      Vote for the party who can never be in power but will work with
      Boris for s fee ministerial jobs and a knighthood?

    104. Mac says:

      Scotland has to take INDY action while we are still in the EU, not after we are out.

    105. Republicofscotland says:

      “Protestors took to the streets of Forres yesterday to criticise Tory MP Douglas Ross on his staunch support of Boris Johnson.”

      “However part time MP Ross was in Belarus running the line at a football match as a linesman”

      Looks like Ross can’t be bothered with his constituents.

      Courtesy of the National newspaper.

    106. Dr Jim says:

      Yeah Joe, we don’t want the SNP we need another party that doesn’t exist and isn’t likely to, to vote for

    107. galamcennalath says:

      An interesting tweet about Labour’s result on WoS …

      “But their worst result was 2.2% of the vote in Bridgeton in 1935. Until tonight!”

      Why Bridgeton 1935? It’s a reminder that miltitant religious extremism has always been associated with the far right in Scotland. Brigton Billy Boys. In the 1920/30s and such groups were involved in strike breaking, intimidation of socialists/communists, disrupting left wing marches and meetings, and the British Union of Fascists.

      Nazi salutes from Union Fleg waving British Nationalists is nothing new!

    108. call me dave says:

      Can I hear the rustle of court papers and a clearing of legal throats to say …something?

    109. kapelmeister says:

      The Lib Dems were down 20% in what was their safest seat just weeks after a Scot was elected their UK leader and their main challenger was a party that has been in power at Holyrood for an eighth of a century.

      They cannot claim that as a good result.

    110. HandandShrimp says:

      Good result from East Kikbride and a very encouraging result from Shetland. I’m not convinced that Wishart will command the loyalty that Tavish had. Tom should try again at the next election. 20 months of bluster and ineffectual spin from Wishart might just be enough to tip the balance.

      Tories and Labour? They barely mustered a vote so all the unionist effort went to the Lib Dems.

      The polls suggesting the SNP and Yes are on the up would appear to be sound. That there was a hefty number of postal votes that were cast before all the current stramash might also suggest that the polls just before the vote indicating an SNP win might have not been so very wrong. That or the very high turnout was some postal vote ballot stuffing by the powers that be 😉

    111. kapelmeister says:

      Rep of Scot@9:52

      Running the line at the fitba is the only thing that eejit is capable of running.

    112. Frank Gillougley says:

      Interim interdict rejected!

    113. call me dave says:

      Interim interdict

      Rejected! Meantime.

    114. Athanasius says:

      Parliament suspended, and now one of Philip Hammond’s aides frogmarched out of Downing Street and the Daily Mail screaming “("Tractor" - Ed)s!” and “Collaborators”. As a non-Scot, I’m curious: Just what, exactly, is it going to take to move so-called “unionists” off their backsides and make them smell what England has been shovelling for the last three hundred years?

    115. Athanasius says:

      “Traitors”, not “tractors”. Don’t know how that happened.

    116. Dr Jim says:

      Anybody who lives in an area targetted by the Lib Dems will know the tactics they use and it’s less than a pretty sight
      If the Lib Dems win in your area, even if they don’t, gently ask the older voters and pensioners why they voted in the way they did and eventually they will reveal some personal detail or tale of the SNP candidate’s life that they find unacceptable or distasteful to them that they were told of by the Lib Dem campaigners or was in their literature (it doesn’t need to be true and usually isn’t)

      Michelle Thompson and John Nicolson to name just a couple of Lib Dem victims of this vile behaviour and i’ll put money on the same thing happens in every constituency they take part in
      Smear innuendo and even outright lies have always been the tools of the Liberal Democrat
      Politicians will fight hard and dirty to win, of course they will but Lib Dems have no limits to their behaviour in this arena

      John Nicolson is too much of a gentleman to talk about what they did to him in East Dunbartonshire but just ask Michelle Thomson and she’ll be happy to recount their vile behaviour towards her and her children, all orchestrated by Alex Cole Hamilton Lib Dem

      And just because Willie Rennie puts across this cheery innocent happy chappie persona, don’t think he is, he’s not

    117. jfngw says:

      Weirdest Shetland by-election claim by the unionists is that the SNP received less votes than Yes in 2014. Hope they spotted the three unionist parties also received a combined vote substantially below the No vote (approx 4% for SNP, 12% for unionists).

      Let’s see if the media run with this spin without pointing out the actuality.

    118. Breeks says:

      Less then 9 weeks until Brexit, 7 weeks until the EU’S Brexit Summit.

      We have no failsafe, no red lines, no Backstop, except Brexit itself, and even Ian Blackford’s commendable assurance that Scotland will not be Brexited against it’s will doesn’t elaborate on the method.

      Joanna Cherry is in Court again, with a direct attack on Johnson’s prorogation, which features ‘elements’ of Constitutional delicacy of unspecified significance. Personally, I cannot judge whether the intention is merely to deliver a bloody nose for Boris, or to tip over the first domino that quickly escalates into the full blown emancipation of Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty. Sadly, after the Article 50 case before the ECJ, I fear it’s the former. When’s the big one Joanna? – The all guns blazing, death or glory fight for Scotland’s sovereignty?

      Shetland? What can you say about Shetland? The SNP looks very comfortable fighting by-elections and ‘ordinary’ politics when defeat is a matter of interpretation and ephemeral process… catch them next time eh? It seems a lot less sure of it’s footing when the stakes are much higher and loss or victory is binary and absolute. Pity we won’t win Indy in a by-election.

      Come on Ian, do the red line ultimatum thing. The Union is over when the clock strikes Brexit… You know you want to.

      Come on Joanna, light the constitutional fire you know their “Supreme” Court can’t put out. Here in the Nation of Scotland, Westminster Parliamentary Sovereignty is the lesser and inferior of Scotland’s popular Sovereignty.

      Everything else, even IndyRef mk2, sounds increasingly like white noise which will never amount to anything. What needs to be decided needs decided BEFORE Brexit, not after.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 30 August, 2019 at 12:45 am:

      ” … It’s kinda no wonder this man has virtually no chance ever of winning an election in any country, he’s senile.”

      The real point they all forget, Dr Jim, is it is a basic law of nature that ultimately the people and not the rulers are sovereign when the chips are down.

      This basic rule can be seen throughout history and especially where the rulers become cruel and over restrictive.

      Think on the statement, “Let them eat cake”, after which the basic rule that ultimately the people are sovereign – shown by the truth that you cannot eat anything when your head is lying in a basket beneath the guillotine’s blade.

      When those who have claimed sovereignty overstep the mark the truth of ultimate sovereignty resting with the people becomes evident. Hopefully in the current United Kingdom situation we, the people, can assert our sovereignty without guillotines, gallows or bloodshed.

    120. robertknight says:

      Would’ve loved to have seen Ali’ar Carmichael’s face when the penny dropped as to how much the Fib-Dem vote had dropped.

    121. boris says:

      Addressing a cheering crowd, Law Professor, Adam Tompkins of Glasgow University, reminded them of the Queen’s previous reluctance to pay tax despite her massive income.

      He said that the queen had special powers or `prerogatives`, which included being able to appoint anyone she liked as Prime Minister.

      You cannot sue the monarchy. He said Tony Blair used these special powers to attack Iraq and there would have no Iraq war without the crown.

      In a democracy, it is the people who are sovereign and not the crown! He urged the abolition of the monarchy preaching, “If you want democracy down with the crown!”

      https://caltonjock.com/2019/08/30/will-westminster-proscribe-the-snp-forcing-an-election-in-scotland-returning-ruth-davidson-and-the-lib-dems-to-power-part-3-early-days-but-the-secret-service-flexes-its-muscles-in-scotland/

    122. Dr Jim says:

      What an unedifying spectacle today as Tory and Labour parties fall over themselves congratulating the Lib Dems while they themselves practically disappear from the political map

      It clearly shows that they don’t care who wins elections as long as it’s not the SNP

      So who says Labour Tories and Lib Dems are different parties

    123. Robert Peffers says:

      @Abulhaq says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:39 am:

      ” … The cosy devolutionist SNP needs to smarten up and strategically accommodate the latest extraordinary moves to advantage.
      Make some mischief.”

      Either you are very stupid or you are flying false colours, Abulhaq. Why on Earth need the SNP make mischief when Boris and co. continue making the mischief for them? The old, old advice is true – give them enough rope and they will hang themselves – they seem to be standing on the trapdoor with the noose around their necks and Boris has the lever in his hand ready to pull it.

    124. kapelmeister says:

      With Corbyn’s lot polling 1.3% on a 66.5% turnout that means, at a quick estimate, that about 1 in every 116 voters in Shetland voted Labour.

      Something for Jeremy to ponder on his Scottish visit as he tells us he’d delay an indyref for years on his personal whim.

    125. yesindyref2 says:

      Can you imagine BoJo on the witness stand on Tuesday?

      I’m going to need to get some sedatives.

      Nurse!

      And just have the guys with the white coat that buttons up the back ready.

      No, not for me you fool!

    126. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:58 am:

      ” … Kapelmeister The 32% the SNP got last night in Shetland was still below the 37% the SNP got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015 even if the SNP got a swing from 2016.

      Bean counting will get you nowhere HYUFD.

      The basic fact to remember is that the SNP vote continues on an upward trend and the natural laws of sovereignty dictate that ultimately the people are sovereign. A fact realised by the Scots way back before 1320 when the then international authorities accepted that was indeed the rule of law in Scotland.

      As usual Scotland was way ahead of the time for in 1320 the rest of Christendom still had, “Divine right of Kings”, as their Rule of Law and, by the way, Westminster still has only a slightly modified version of that Rule of Law. It will not survive the present situation and Westminster rule, (in its current set-up), will end.

    127. Frank Gillougley says:

      – if i was a gamblin man, my money’d still be on Doherty.
      For no other reason than he’s got that insignificant look of history about him.

    128. Dr Jim says:

      The terror in the opposition revealed again as Tory Labour and Lib Dems spin the Shetland result into a rejection of Independence

      We know that folk in general don’t tend to do the counting stuff but actually if you apply the percentage of swing to the SNP in Shetland to the whole of Scotland by that type of Tory Labour and Lib Dem reasoning, Scotland wins Independence out of sight at around the 70% figure from the base of the original 2014 45% which we know is in the mid 50% now, so a win by even more

      So not all that smart to go around applying the result of one election to another when the questions are different and one election fields ten candidates and the other will be a binary question

    129. Mac says:

      A different court decision in Scotland, from England, is a constitutional schism and a warning shot across Unionist bows.

      The Establishment won’t allow it to happen 🙂

      And there will be peer-to-peer phone calls over the weekend.

    130. Joe says:

      For those who replied to my last post-

      I understand those who disagree but anyone who cant see the truth of my last paragraph is a moron and an example of why politicians work as they do and why things stay the same and why you seem to lose no matter the result

    131. Dr Jim says:

      Joe understands that everyone who disagrees with him on WOS are morons

      Good man yourself Joe, how to win friends and influence people

    132. Breeks says:

      Hard work listening to James O’Brien on LBC today being vexed about the BritNat Media reveling in the fact Johnson and Rees-Mogg are lying, and the media is “loving it”.

      Poor James needs to spend some time in Scotland where the whole MSM has been revelling in it’s capacity to lie and distort the political landscape in Scotland for decades, brazen beyond belief, and is still free to lie with impunity.

      I kinda feel like being a clype, phoning James and dobbing in Shelagh Fogarty for all the gushing bollocks yesterday about Ruth Davidson. The lies of the media resonate on the media. Where is the objective scrutiny and fact checking Mr O’Brien?

    133. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      So, let’s kick out the only party (really), that’s going to give us the option of independence.

      Masterful plan.

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joe says: 30 August, 2019 at 9:09 am:

      ” … Its interesting how many people are saying ‘SNP need to do this’, ‘SNP need to do that’.
      No, you need to stop thinking about the SNP and thinking of an alternative.”

      Good Grief! You do speak a right load of misinformed pish.

    135. call me dave says:

      While I was away. Court Case news.

      From BBCtwitter. also See WoStwitter

      Joanna Cherry? outside Court now.

      Sees it as a victory that Judge wants to hear full arguments next week. Says she wants an affidavit from Boris Johnson on his reasons for prorogation and calls for the PM to make himself available for cross-examination in Court.
      ————————————————————–

      QC tells Judge he’s busy and can’t make it? Aye OK 🙂

    136. jfngw says:

      LibDem’s celebrate their win in Shetland. If you would like a flavour of their graciousness just remember the night the unionists invaded George Square to rout the independence supporters, it has all the same hallmarks. Their is nothing more unappetizing than a unionist party in full Brit Nat celebratory mode.

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says: 30 August, 2019 at 9:30 am:

      … Ruth Davidson’s resignation announcement did not include any details of her doubtless already in place new career move.”

      Err! Yes it did, manandboy, she is moving from being the leader of the, “Vote for the Ruth Davidson, not the Tory, party to sit on the combined unionist party back benches and keeping her place as the constituency MSP that she was elected as.

      Now that will prevent her from returning to the job with the BBC she gave up to be an MSP but not from any nice little earner on a thing tank or whatever, but her job is a constituency MSP. This will be quite hard for her as she has no experience of holding surgeries for her constituency voters.

    138. galamcennalath says:

      Mac says:

      A different court decision in Scotland, from England, is a constitutional schism and a warning shot across Unionist bows.

      Indeed. I wondered about that. There is absolutely no reason why two different countries, with two different legal systems, and two different constitutional traditions would arrive at different court decisions … and that of course is the last thing BritNats would want highlighted!

      Legal collusion behind the scenes? There shouldn’t be but it’s hard not to believe the various courts will draw the same conclusions.

      Having said all that, wouldn’t it be amazing if the Scottish courts turned out to be Johnson’s nemesis?!

    139. Clapper57 says:

      ANYWAY…much thanks to the people of Shetland who DID vote for the SNP…and increased their vote…Thank you.

      As to the swagger of Unionist individuals this morning who are , as we all could have predicted , ungracious and displaying uber triumphalism as expected….pride comes before a fall….one victory does not make you overall victors in the bigger battle yet to come…I think your jubilation may be short lived but enjoy this small ( decreased vote) victory Lol

      Adam Tomkins gloats…gloats as his party LOST their deposit..is he a Lib Dem now ? And has he now converted back to Remain…Lol

      Once again BIG BIG thanks to all of those Shetlanders who voted SNP yesterday….and to Tom Wills for all of his efforts in the campaign that resulted in the SNP INCREASING their vote in Shetland….AND the Lib Dems decreasing theirs.

      ps. Heard the Lib Dem who won gave an ungracious winning speech…so a Lib Dem acting like a Lib Dem…why colour me surprised..Lol

      Bit windy today….especially on certain Twitter a/c’s…Lol

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mac says: 30 August, 2019 at 9:48 am:

      ” … Scotland has to take INDY action while we are still in the EU, not after we are out.”

      Any chance you might explain why that should be, Mac?

    141. Robert Peffers says:

      @call me dave says: 30 August, 2019 at 10:02 am:

      ” … Can I hear the rustle of court papers and a clearing of legal throats to say …something?”

      Yup!

    142. jfngw says:

      Before the internet we would all have been informed that the judge had thrown out the prorogue case. It is sobering to wonder how much misinformation I have been fed by the MSM in my lifetime.

    143. Patrick Roden says:

      Can I get something straight about Ruth Davidson (Because I know our so called media won’t be asking her any awkward questions)

      She says she has resigned her leadership position because we have two big elections (potentially) in Scotland and she can’t bear the thought of being away from her family for hours on end campaigning?

      She mentions that during elections politicians will spend endless hours campaigning, and while she used to love this, she now can’t bear the thought of being away from her family for all these ‘endless hours’ so has stepped down.

      Which although the timing is suspect, would be fair enough if she left parliament altogether, but she hasn’t, she’s staying as an MSP.

      So is she saying that as an MSP’s she won’t be putting in the hours when these elections come around?

      Is she planning to do what the Tory leader in Scotland ‘Gordon Brown’ did, and keep picking up her wage for being an MSP, but not campaign for her party, except for a few (well paid) media interviews?

      Be good to know.

    144. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joe says: 30 August, 2019 at 11:25 am:

      ” … I understand those who disagree but anyone who cant see the truth of my last paragraph is a moron and an example of why politicians work as they do and why things stay the same and why you seem to lose no matter the result”

      Hilarious! So your logic is that everyone who disagrees with you is a moron for no other stated reason than they disagree with you.

      Have you the slightest idea what that logic says about YOU, Joe?

    145. Clapper57 says:

      @ Patrick Roden @ 12.21pm

      Good point Patrick..a GE election and the Holyrood election ..it also raises another point…in the event of another Indy Ref…I assume she will NOT afford the time away from her family to campaign ….and certainly will NOT take THE leading role in the ‘No’ campaign….however on planet pro Union media no one will pull her up on this….cause…Union and all that.

      I suspect she will carp from the sidelines like Brown…and will unite with him in another NO Thanks Intervention…guest appearances assured…she could be in HOL’s and become , like Forsyth, a bitter ex relevant irritant proud Scot BUT….( proud with small ‘p’ and noted as such for show…more PROUD BRIT…for fantasy and to keep Scots deluded as to it existing at all).

    146. starlaw says:

      Patrick Roden 12;21

      Ruth never is seen at her office near Haymarket, never holds surgeries, answers phone calls, E-Mails or Letters, she is Scotlands secret MSP.

    147. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Joe

      what do you mean by’you’?……surely you mean ‘we’….

    148. Thepnr says:

      @Ahundredthidiot

      Haha nice catch. Abulhaq often made that mistake though he’s ironed it out now LOL.

    149. Ealasaid says:

      In-D-Car Gordon Ross 30.8.19 – Back stop. What exactly is it?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6vwZQaXmyo

    150. defo says:

      Looks like Joe earned his crust on this thread then.
      Will you guys NEVER learn?

    151. Bobp says:

      Effijy 9.43am. ” are they a cult like the moonies on these islands”. I think myself it’s the isolation and the lack of vitamin D. Hats off to the shetlanders who voted SNP.

    152. Gfaetheblock says:

      Patrick Roden

      Yes, this means as a back bench MSP she will not be front line campaigning at a GE.

      Not hard.

    153. Joe says:

      @Robert Peffers

      I know you are eager to try and find something to get me with since ive pointed out how much of a fool you are. But let me explain.

      If a population of a given area let transgressions committed by their elected representative slide it just gets worse over time until said ‘elected official’ stops representing their interests. There are some noble exceptions but its an observable fact.

      However if a population are vigilant and do not talk nonsense from the people they elect then that elected official has much less room for mischief.

      Understand? Would you rather I draw a picture instead?

      And yes – a person who cant see the truth to that (or wishes not to) is bumbling f**king fool.

    154. Joe says:

      @Bob Mack

      No dont ‘kick out the SNP’ (my god you people have to resort to strawmen argument every time dont you?)

      So long as their is a majority wishing to place votes on a party that wishes to deliver independence then it amounts to the same thing.

      But yes – as Mr Campbell has noticed (who im beginning to think is the only person on this site with any brains) there needs to be another party for people to support. This would reign in the SNP.

      Sure, hold your nose and vote for them as there’s no alternative. But to not think it might be a good idea to have an alternative is, well, stupid?



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top