The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


How numbers work, with Paul and John

Posted on August 30, 2019 by

We just watched a nine-minute segment on Sky News, purportedly on the subject of “Is the Union between Scotland and England under threat?”, which for maximum balance and impartiality included views from both Labour and the Tories – in the forms of Paul Sweeney MP and John Lamont MP – but nobody else.

Both men spouted some quite extraordinary claims, all of which went unchallenged by presenter Adam Boulton. Let’s just take a quick look at a couple of the best ones.

Wait, what?

“For example, had the Tory vote not increased in the way it did at the last general election, Labour would have taken every seat in Glasgow from the Scottish National Party.”

We’re not even sure that Sweeney himself could tell you what that absurd gibberish is supposed to mean. Had the Tory vote not increased in Glasgow in 2017, it would of course have made precisely no difference to the SNP and Labour totals, and therefore the SNP would still have held every seat that they did in fact hold.

(Namely every one except Sweeney’s.)

The only way it’s possible to beat it into some kind of literal semantic sense is if you assume he means “if Tory voters had voted Labour instead we would have won”, which is plainly true of every election ever conducted anywhere – if everyone voted for different parties to the ones they actually voted for, the winners would be different.

Like, duh.

But even then, the statement is politically meaningless unless he’s saying that there’s no difference between voting Labour and voting Tory, because they’re in essence the same party and the only thing that counts in Scotland is not voting for the SNP.

So we must assume that that is indeed what he means, and welcome Scottish Labour finally admitting in public what we’ve all known for several years.

But Lamont wasn’t to be outdone without a fight. Dismissing what he rather generously described as Sweeney’s “political theory”, he offered up a real zinger of a point.

Last night’s Shetland by-election, he said, “should have been very very challenging for the Conservatives and Labour”, and noted that Labour had lost their deposit, proving (presumably) that only the Tories were fit to oppose the SNP.

So how did the Tories fare against this “challenge”? Much better, right?

Oh. They lost their deposit too, and also lost vote share, finishing an extremely distant fourth with around a third of the vote of an independent candidate and about a ninth of the SNP’s vote, beating Labour by just 273.

In fact, had the Labour and Tory vote in Shetland been combined and given to a single joint candidate they would still have lost their deposit, picking up just 4.88% of the vote rather than the 5% you need to hang onto your £500.

We’re not sure that’s ever happened in Scotland before.

But let’s give Paul the last word. Asked about a potential future referendum that might take place in the event of a Labour government, he offered this:

“It shouldn’t happen in the case of separation unless there’s a very clear mandate from a Scottish Parliament election, and that doesn’t exist currently.”

Um? We’ll have to try to untangle those first eight words at a later date. Does he mean we don’t get a referendum unless we’re already independent? Or does he mean that if there’s a clear electoral mandate delivered (again) to parties who campaign in a future election for a two-option referendum, Labour would actually give Scotland a different kind of referendum entirely that people HADN’T voted for? We honestly have no idea.

But we’ve been over the other bit before – the Scottish Parliament already has a clear mandate, established in an actual vote of the Parliament itself, which was in turn voted in by an election. Mandates really don’t get much clearer than that.

The democratically-elected, proportionally-represented Scottish Parliament voted in March 2017 for a second independence referendum by 69 votes to 59. We’ve double-checked this with some experts, and 69 is a bigger number than 59.

(If any Scottish Labour MPs are reading this, or having it read to them by an adult, to save you some time taking your shoes and socks off it’s 10 more.)

And that’s how democracy works. It’s the reason Labour didn’t win all the other seats in Glasgow in 2017 – because the number of votes they got was lower than the number the SNP got. It’s why Labour and the Tories lost their deposits in Shetland last night: they both got fewer than the 592 votes they’d have needed to keep them.

592, our experts confirm, is also a number.

We know it’s difficult to explain stuff to Unionist politicians. Goodness knows we’ve tried over the years. But if we have to go all the way back to the principles of which numbers are bigger than other numbers, it could take longer than we ever expected.

Print Friendly

    241 to “How numbers work, with Paul and John”

    1. Den Cairns says:

      Any quotes for an iPhone 6s screen repair, as I just stuck the nut in mine watching that snivelling sack of steaming sick.

    2. Hackalumpoff says:

      Shhurely it’s time to give those two a place on the Thickos roll of honour.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/morons/

    3. Doug says:

      As the Rev says,

      “…unless he’s [Sweeney] saying that there’s no difference between voting Labour and voting Tory, because they’re in essence the same party and the only thing that counts in Scotland is not voting for the SNP.

      So we must assume that that is indeed what he means…”

      Also, the ignorance and downright duplicity shown by these britnats regarding the already existing mandates for indyref2 is only outdone by the ignorance and arrogance of the British nationalist media.

      The last few days have once again shown, along with the British nationalist media in London’s unquestioning, sycophantic praise for Davidson, that England and Scotland are light years apart politically.

      The so-called united kingdom survives, just, on lies.

    4. mogabee says:

      Ha!

      Bet your experts are not as good as THEIR experts!

      Mince, waffle, obfuscation and downright porky pies on show there.

      Sky surpassing itself yet again and not including the party of government…

    5. Auld Rock says:

      Oh, Rev. don’t even consider wasting your time as they wouldn’t even start to understand, ‘An Idiots Guide to Basic/Simple Arithmetic’ let alone master large numbers or statistics. I would even have grave doubts about their ability to understand a simple sentence.

    6. msean says:

      These two seem to explain why political parties keep a leash on their MPs.In this case,it seems that after the holidays,the heid yins haven’t started back yet. 🙂

    7. Dan says:

      THAT’S NUMBERWANG!

      Both Paul and John displaying very Cantonaesque numeracy skills.
      Was there something in the air last night…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INiT1cA_Eqk

    8. Arbroath1320 says:

      I assume that today’s article is a way of confirming, for the few who do not already know, that to become a unionist politician, no matter the colour of their unionism, the applicant must first have a full lobotomy carried out.

    9. Robert Louis says:

      Paul sweeney talks utter mince.

      Why do unionists lie so much? Perhaps one day, Paul Sweeney or one of his unionist cabal (red or blue or orange (ahem!) variety) in Scotland will tell folk like me, just what is so good about Scotland being dictated to by a bunch of pig-ignorant, London obsessed, Scotland-hating w**kers in England.

      I’ll not hold my breath.

    10. Malc says:

      We should scrap PR and FPtP and all that rubbish and just elect folk via the Numberwang method.

    11. Breeks says:

      Be fair, with Ruthie out the picture, there’s a vacancy for Gobshiter in Chief.

    12. Alabaman says:

      Why not email this blog, in its entirety to Sky News.

    13. Frazerio says:

      Its extremely difficult to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding. Claud Cockburn, I think.

    14. Jack Murphy says:

      I propose a Crowdfunder to buy an Abacus for Paul Sweeney Labour MP for Glasgow North East, and John Lamont Tory MP for Berwickshire,Roxburgh and Selkirk.

      One each,and I’m willing to donate next Pay Day.

      It’s as simple as this:
      VIDEO [smile emoji]
      https://tinyurl.com/yxujgltz

    15. Patrick Roden says:

      The problem for Sweeney is, he knows what he means, but can’t really say it because this would open a huge can of worms.

      What he is thinking is that the Tory ‘recovery’ under Ruth Davidson, was done using a tactic that was based around hoovering up the collapse in Labours vote.

      The Tory’s achieved this by playing the bigot card, saying that voting for the ‘Ruth Davidson Party’ was the only way to save the Union.

      It worked for the Tory’s and they did indeed hoover up the ‘staunch’ vote, which is why we had the unedifying sight of Kezia backtracking on her claim that their might be a case for independence if we were taken out of Europe against our will, to saying that she would attempt to block us even having a vote on the issue, even if we won a mandate!

      The ‘staunch’ voter wasn’t convinced by Kezia’s pathetic attempt at being as ‘staunch’ as them, because she didn’t mention how great it was when the ‘Queens 11’ won a football game, or she didn’t get her picture taken smiling at Ibrox.

      So the labour vote collapsed and the Tory vote surged, and only way labour could get these voters back was to lurch even further to the right and into being openly bigoted and insulting towards Catholics and Scotland.

      Kezia tried and failed, James Kelly hoped his campaign to overturn the Offensive Behavior at Football act, would endear Labour to the bigots, but they still voted for the Ruth no Surrender Party. (as it was becoming know as)

      For Sweeney to openly admit that labour / Tory’s were fighting over the bigot vote in the West of Scotland/ Glasgow, would open a can of worms, that he simply couldn’t open, so he was left floundering around with that feeling we have all experienced when your trying to explain something while not being able to share all the information you know about and ending up looking a bit stupid.

    16. jfngw says:

      We can only assume Mr Sweeney sees any legislation that was not ‘clearly’ in a manifesto as illegal and must be repealed immediately. That is one gigantic amount of Westminster and Holyrood bills that are going to be repealed.

      What he is effectively saying is the SNP need to win over 50% by themselves but the unionists are free to combine their votes. It’s democracy unionist style, heads I win, tails you lose.

    17. Dr Jim says:

      I think it’s called Unionsplaining for us simple folks who don’t understand adding up and stuff

    18. Brian Powell says:

      That’s why they had nobody from the SNP or SG on.

    19. Macart says:

      @ Dr Jim

      Beat me to it. 🙂

      Unionsplaining for the metro meeja set and their viewers.

    20. MaggieC says:

      I saw the above interviews on tv and it reminded me of what my wee granny would have called them and all the other unionist politicians who get dragged out to give interviews on tv if it’s about Snp or Independence .

      She would have said their all “ NUMPTIES “ . It’s a good Scots word to describe them all .

    21. jfngw says:

      Sorry O/T but things move fast just now.

      Interesting take involving Mr Brown reporting the EU may unilaterally extend the 31 Oct deadline. This could really stimmie the Tories attempt to blame the EU if they still decide to crash out on the 31st Oct.

    22. Patsy Millar says:

      At least those two clowns gave me a laugh.

    23. Andy McAngry says:

      Are any of us remotely surprised by this.
      This what the BritNat parties and the BritNat media do and Sky news, especially Boulton and Burley.
      Don’t waste your time emailing anything to sky news, it’s a complete non starter. If they were at all interested in balance and truth we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    24. Camz says:

      Ahh, the good old London media. I stopped watching sometime after GE 2015, as I got pretty much all I needed via websites and the like.

      “Let’s get two unionist party supporters to debate how badly the indy case is.”

      2014 – 100%
      2019 – 100%

      No change

      Roll on Indyref 2

    25. defo says:

      Save time Stu. Change tack, so as that you comment when we’re NOT being lied to, with the default setting being ‘assume it’s a fib’.

      Made a wee donation, they really need & deserve a boost.

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

    26. SilverDarling says:

      What is going on in his head though, to be able to front it out on the telly? What spectacular brass neckery.

      He’ll go far, that boy. A great example of Labour ‘Spin’, he should be already halfway to hell with smoke coming off his rotating heels.

    27. Lukas Scholts says:

      Did anyone happen to hear the piece on radio 4 around 8.45 this morning. I think it was by Jim Naughtie. It was a masterclass in anti-independence propaganda.

      I’d love to see what Rev made of it.

    28. Frank Gillougley says:

      Oh FFS unionschpeak

      ”Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right…here I am…”

    29. SilverDarling says:

      If the Unionists do join up then it should be exposed as early as possible and the Electoral Commission informed.

      They are a toothless beast but shining sunlight on the Unionist paper candidates will inform people at least. The Lib Dems have been the main beneficiary so far with even Plaid standing aside in the Wales by-election and now Shetland.

      It requires a degree of collusion that all the Unionist parties are happy with and we know from Kezia Dugdale’s time that elements of Scottish Labour are happy to play that game. Whether Jo Swinson’s monstrous ego and ambition would allow her to stand anyone aside for Labour is an ask, she would do anything for the Tories though.

      Richard Leonard is a different proposition – will he and the Corbynites put the Union above their Socialist principles? Corbyn thinks the SNP should put their Independence aims temporarily aside would he do the same for the Union?

      If spinning Sweeney is anything to go by, Corbyn may not even know that is what is happening!

    30. Craig P says:

      Still never worked out why Scottish unionists haven’t formed a joint party. Anti-SNP’s all they’ve got, they might as well merge.

    31. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Patrick Roden 12:46,

      Yes, that nicely covers it, I think. Both scrabbling for the dregs but never able to say it.

      Dr Jim @ 12:47,

      I like too!

      The more these cretins try to deny the obvious about what people “want”, the deeper a hole they dig themselves into.

    32. Ghillie says:

      Who’s magic abacus were they using this time?

    33. Ghillie says:

      And Hey!

      Well done our Tom Wills!

      SNP vote up more than 9 points 🙂

    34. Sarah says:

      @jfngw re Gordon Brown telling us that the EU might extend October 31st deadline.

      Why would anyone take any notice of Brown, let alone the clever EU stateswomen and statesmen [used the words to distinguish from the brainless rabble who are the majority of politicians in Britain]?

      He is a nobody.

    35. There are two possible explanations for this : Sweeney and Lamont are as thick as pig shit, or they are out and out liars.
      There is a third explanation. They are boneheaded thickies who will lie and betray Scotland to hold on to their 30 pieces of siller.
      A note to SKY: I’m cancelling my subscription.
      Job done. Any sacrifice to keep Scotland in its concentration camp.

    36. Giving Goose says:

      I guess it depends on the toxicity of the chosen descriptive term, i.e. Tory Vs Unionist, but I really believe it is about time the narrative was changed when referring to the Red/Yellow/Blue Tories to Red/Yellow/Blue British Nationalist Party.

      That’s what they are, after all.

      Just associate them with their stable mates, the old BNP, and you’ve smeared them good and proper with a dose of the reality.

      A further dose of reality is that when you examine the institutions and symbols that go to make up Britishness, they are actually English.

      So Britishness, as understood by Paul & John, is an adopted fawning cult to another country, an intrusive foreign culture and a master class in willing subjection.

    37. Clapper57 says:

      It’s what SKY and other UKOK media outlets do…’selective’ in their choice of whose opinion shall be given a platform…knowing full well the message they, those who they choose as guests, will give …..and that their message will be the ONLY message that broadcasters like SKY choose for the audience to hear..

      Strange but to give but only ‘one side’ of an argument in what is clearly defined as a two sided argument Lol….is so obvious in it’s bias that it is laughable in the blatant propaGANGSTER style we in Scotland are accustomed to having to endure..courtesy of UKOK media.

      Sweeney and Lamont ‘Scottish’ UKOK spokespersons who are clearly now a part of the political MINORITY within Scotland…but as per…the first and usually ONLY opinion allowed a platform on a national TV station…same old same old…this is the unpalatable dish that UKOK TV will always serve up…

      Hence the confused and distorted message many of our friends down south have in relation to the TRUE position of politics in Scotland but more importantly it is served up so that Scots INGEST what they are being served up courtesy of BritNat TV …the ordinary Joe’s are being served the scraps and morsels while the uber Unionists are allowed to feast on the UKOK banquet…what’s new?

      And so it begins…..again…YAWN

    38. Gary says:

      I didn’t even know there WAS a by election in Shetland! Was this in the news? Maybe it was, I don’t watch ‘Misreporting Scotland’ anymore.

      But on the comments in re Glasgow seats perhaps he means that had Labour not lost so many votes to the Tories they might’ve won. I can, in part, see his point. Ruth Davidson shamelessly dog-whistled the ‘orange vote’ away from Labour – that much is true. But what has mostly killed Labour in Scotland is people like me, I was a lifelong Labour voter. I voted Labour in council, Regional Council and Westminster elections. Initially I voted Labour in Holyrood too BUT, after seeing their antics when Holyrood was televised, I changed my view. I never thought I’d see the day I’d turn my back on them, but they turned their back on US first. There are so many like me who now vote SNP and THAT is the reason Labour lose out. They turned their backs on the electorate so the electorate returned the favour…

    39. Frank says:

      David Cameron tweeted that Ruth Davidson “transformed our party in Scotland”. Not the Ruth Davidson Party. Not The Scottish Conservative Party. But Our party in Scotland. So it is confirmed, it is another branch off the English trunk.

    40. galamcennalath says:

      What’s going on here?

      Are they really as thick as mince?

      Or

      Have they become so blinkered in their hatred of the SNP, and because of the imminent threat to their Union, that they have suspended all logical thinking and defy the rules of arithmetic to conjure up pro UK arguments?

      There’s the other explanation often put forward that they are relying on voters being ill informed and/or disengaged. They might believe gullible types might swallow any old nonsense. I’m beginning to think this is a conspiracy theory too far. I think British Nationalism no longer has the capability to mount such campaigns of manipulation. And English Nationalism has other concerns.

    41. Clootie says:

      This is media balance. Totally ignore the actual voting pattern in Scotland. Invite guests who are encouraged to makeup any random set of data they wish even if it contradicts reality.

      We have the national day of mourning for Ruth Davidson and the crowning of Swinson as the new leader of the free World.

      Once again I thank the developers of the Internet and the dedicated bloggers who produce the evidence that Professional Journalism has now vanished and been replaced by paid propaganda parasites.

      I cannot imagine the shame these so called “journalists” must feel when they read such quality analysis and decimation of their pathetic efforts.

      Unfortunately it is not just the Scottish Independence issue. Watch any European channel, Al Jazeera etc or read any foreign newspaper and the blatant lies our media is reporting regarding the Brexit talks and the state propaganda is obvious.

      We have progressed very little from the days of Pathe News!

    42. McDuff says:

      The problem is as always this junk and prof McDonald’s nonsense in today’s Herald is what the general public are getting daily and apart from Wings we have no way of countering their dross.
      The Unionist are already fighting indy 2 and thier propoganda machine is working overtime . We need to set a date for the referendum now. What are we waiting for.

    43. Jim Morris says:

      Is there ever a published record of postal votes with turnout and numbers for each candidate?

    44. donald anderson says:

      Jeremiah Corbyn is in Sweeney’s constituency Saturday morn to support Tory hymn sheets on Trident, Brexit and London Rule.

    45. Clootie says:

      It would be nice if the March next Saurday in Perth was a monster. I think the timing could be perfect to send a message. However I do realise we would need over 100k in order to get double figures in the “BBC official report.”

    46. Robert Peffers says:

      Now Wingers who have good memories may recall that some years ago I explained why I always referred to the Westminster political system as, “The Westminster Establishment”.

      The explanation was very simple as it stated the whole system was really just a system of lies to fool the public to believe the United Kingdom was a democracy with a parliament composed of different political parties and the voters chose the party in power.

      The truth, though, was there for all to see and the facts were hidden in plain view. First of all it is the United Kingdom we are considering and that means the United Kingdom cannot be a democracy for a kingdo0m is headed by a monarch and monarchs are not elected. Monarchies thus cannot be democracies which brings us to, “Sovereignty”, and here we really get into confusion for the United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of kingdoms which have independent legal systems that are incompatible due to their laws on sovereignty.

      In the(3 country), Kingdom of England they have a legally sovereign monarch but in The Kingdom of Scotland the monarch is not legally sovereign but the people are legally sovereign. This means that the United Kingdom Parliament first of all cannot be democratic as the English parts of it have a sovereign monarch.

      So the idea of a legally sovereign monarchy. not to mention the Anglican Bishops and English Law Lords and hereditary and non-hereditary peers in an unele4cted House of Lords as the Upper House should tell everyone the UK is not a democracy.

      How is the Prime Minister of the Lower House, (the Commons), chosen? The answer is that while convention says the political party with most seats, (not the biggest share of the votes), is summonsed to the monarch’s presence and commanded by the monarch to form his/her majesty’s government, (Not the people’s government), the fact is that when the kingdom is under threat Her/His Majesty summons someone to his/her presence and commands that person to form his/her majesty’s cross-party wartime government.

      So the idea of democracy doesn’t really exist. Look at it with a cynical eye – why would an ordinary MP bother whether their party is in government or opposition when non-cabinet government MPs get the same wages and perks as government MPs?

      So while the English/Welsh and N.I. voters get to select their MP that MP represents the English Sovereign not the English Kingdom monarch’s subjects. Because the English Kingdom has a legally sovereign monarch.

      So, as far as the English Kingdom goes the UK cannot be a democracy and as far as the legally sovereign Scots are concerned Westminster has assumed that Westminster has sovereignty over Scotland but it has no legal sovereignty and the Westminster parties pretend to be different parties but, when the chips are down they are all Unionists and subjects of His/Her Majesty and Her/His Majesty’s Lords.

      Now consider who appoints the non-hereditary peers?

      As we say in Scotland, “Democracy? Aye! Richt!”.

      I wonder, sometimes, if perhaps the unionist parties in Scotland interview perspective candidates to ascertain that they are NOT proficient in basic English Grammar and basic Arithmetic.

    47. robertknight says:

      SNP-Baaaaaaad…

      What do you expect from the delusional BritNat brigade.

      Truth Davidson would rather spend the time with the family than face up to the reality of what “Better Together” means in reality…

      62% (66% in recent polls) of those voting here being dragged out of the EU, because 5 years ago Truth and the other BritNat charlatans persuaded 55% to surrender the big decisions to the electorate in England.

      Smart move that turned out to be, NOT! Well done Naw Bags, well done!

    48. Derek Cameron says:

      Annihilation of the Numpties Part Z. Brilliant.

    49. Thepnr says:

      @defo

      Made a wee donation, they really need & deserve a boost.

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

      I completely agree, I met Tartanpigsy once at a Wings get together in Aberdeen a couple of years ago. What he achieved for the Independence cause back in 2014 deserves at much praise as the Wee Blue Book got.

      By himself he raised the funds that put 10,000 Yes Saltires on the street in the run up to the referendum. They were everywhere and we are still seeing them now. All of these flags were given freely to the Yes groups across Scotland, it was up to them whether to give them away or sell them to raise much needed funds.

      This needs our support, please help if you can. It’s for all of us and all we have is people power, millionaire donors are sadly lacking in the Yes movement.

    50. Neil E says:

      This may just be my favourite Wings article ever!

    51. scotspatriot says:

      Sky was costing me £87 per month, until January when I witnessed Kay Burnley treating Ian Blackford with mocking disrespect. I know get most of my news from internet sources and my sport/ movies from Netflix/ nowtv/ Amazon, saving around £60 per month !
      Cancel all Britnat Propaganda sources. It’ll hurt them more than us. Never missed Sky a bit. A load of Crap anyway.

    52. call me dave says:

      Cough! 🙁

      Well, fair play to Auntie wie a kilt tv who actually showed the important part of the Lord Doherty’s decision which was to have a full hearing next Tuesday. Also a pretty full report followed

      Big Auntie showed only a small part of the judgement which was that the emergency interdict had fallen. It was left to the newsreader to slip in a sentence about the full hearing later.

      If Queenie’s advice from Boris was unlawful in Scotland…Jings!

      As Boris said about another thing a million to one chance 🙂

      OH PS:
      I remember that Moodie Blues thing?

      The chances of anything coming from Mars is a million to one they said.

    53. manandboy says:

      Well done, Stu, on another excellent piece of work.

      And so the ‘Seven Year Independence Propaganda War’ waged by England against Scotland continues without respite.

      For the record:

      “Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.”

      As a piece of bog-standard televised Unionist propaganda from Sky, this clip above is what it is, and could easily be classified as ‘atrocious’.

      And yet it offers an insight into the state of play in British politics, and specifically into the current relationship between the Electorate and the Political Parties/Establishment, which includes most of mainstream broadcast media.

      It does appear as if the majority of voters, possibly more so the elderly, still think of Westminster politicians and their parties in an old-fashioned way, meaning, they still expect politicians to represent their constituents and also to tell them the truth. But the politicians, and all who work in the ‘politics industry’, including in the Television News Media, have moved on – and down.

      Representation has disappeared for at least half the electorate because of the Great Brexit Divide, while at the same time money from outside agencies has become the main force driving MP’s, and Election Campaigns, either from Big Business or Dark Money.

      Not forgetting that nowadays, no one plays by the rules anymore – not 10 Downing St., not the Electoral Commission, not the Tory Party, nor Labour, and certainly not the LibDems whose cash-splashing to win seats is beyond a joke.

      Then there’s the Lies. Lots and lots of lies. Never ending lies. Brazen, bare-faced lies. Teeth used to be for eating with and smiling, but now they are used by politicians most of the time for lying through.

      Why does England invest so heavily in time and money, to stop Scotland being a normal independent country – like England? Because Scotland is England’s biggest Cash Cow. With its vast energy assets of Oil, Gas, Wind & Tide, Scotland is the Goose that lays Golden Eggs, and England greedily wants them all.
      It is a plain fact, that without Scotland’s wealth pouring south into Westminster’s coffers every single day, England would collapse financially, and very quickly at that.

      Independence is normal. Make Scotland a normal country again. Join the SNP. Support Independence. Buy yourself a Saltire.

      And when the time comes vote to live in a normal country.

    54. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      Tartanpigsy was at the WOS stall at Aberdeen a couple of weeks ago.

      He’s hoping that this weekend will see a major surge in donations as most monthly salaries are paid around now. It’s sitting at £2,197 raised of £12,500 target as I type.

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

    55. Iain mhor says:

      No novelty, that pair are just barely mid-management incompetents, propogating bullshit downwards, never having checked facts or RTFM themselves. Happens everywhere.

      Anyway; anyone care to interpret this tweet from Mike Russell?
      I already have, but others may care to make their own minds up and have a good old argument.

      “Congratulations to @tprwills & the #Shetland by election team – great result in a seat that has returned a Liberal for generations. Tide will go on turning so look forward to 2021…”

      http://bit.ly/2MIiczb

    56. ross says:

      scottish labour reduced to a wee boy sounding like student politics.

      part of my independence support is about us having solid left centre labourish politicians that were ignored for years.

      far cry this from the days of labour stalwarts with gravitas.

    57. Sarah says:

      @Thepnr at 2.03: I put a few bob into the Flags fundraiser today but it is still only 98 donors and he is £8000 short of what he needs to place his order.

      I think he said he needed 80% of his target i.e. £10,000 of £12,500, by the end of next week. So far he has got £2,197.

    58. Brian Powell says:

      And as we saw with Jo Swinson’s ‘argument’ when talking about the 2017 GE and the drop in numbers of SNP MPs, even though SNP won, numbers going down meant they lost.

      So for Shetland, following her logic, the LibDems lost that vote.

    59. Thepnr says:

      @call me dave

      The words were indeed spoken by Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues.

      The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said
      The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one…
      But still, they come!

      Richard Burton got in on the act too in Jeff Waynes classic debut album “War of the Worlds” from 1978.

    60. Bob Mack says:

      M ‘pingo or African Black Wood is reckoned to be the densest wood on the planet. Clearly they have never scrutinised the heads of these numpties for comparison.

      Clever guys eh?

    61. Ian McCubbin says:

      Stu yourast few paragraphs are the best laugh I have had in days.
      Bless those poor sods are clutching at less than straws.
      The dying moans of would political opponents to Independence.
      The game as all but over, as I await the fat lady singing.
      I have a feeling some death throw event will bs a conclusion.

    62. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Powell @ 14:36,

      Yes, that was the Little Corporal (now Private) Ruth’s argument as well. So the SNP really “won”, surely?

      Not been out yet, but the SNP “win” will be plastered all over the papers today, I expect.

      A not unexpected yet very creditable result for the SNP, and bodes well for future costests, whatever and whenever they may be. (Not so sure for the FibDems!)

    63. Clapper57 says:

      Andrew Adonis tweeted this today :

      “Scottish independence would be an extreme version of what the long-drawn-out Quebec independence movement (now virtually dead) did to Montreal: turned it from a world city to a provincial city because investment & jobs fled”

      PLUS

      “Key point on Scotland switching to the Euro: this requires it first to launch its own independent currency, then to have it in long interim fixed exchange rate system with the Euro. Huge instability in this process, probably not manageable”

      PLUS

      “Interest rates in Scotland would be much higher than in England to launch an independent currency, given its large fiscal and balance of payments deficits. Sensible policy is to stay in the UK!”

      See……STOP BREXIT…for England…STOP INDY for Scotland.

      See….SAVE England………do NOT save Scotland.

      All for one (England) and one for all (of England only)…if we, the English come out..then by f**k so do you Scots…there will be NO lifeboats on the bad ship UKOK currently docked at a BritNat port and where ALL of us will be sailing out into Brexit Armageddon…that’s you too Jocks…

      Official…I am now at breaking point…have appointment to get measured up for a straight jacket…where thanks to the UKOK BritNat land rationale..there is NO release button..for us Scots …..laugh..then cry…laugh..then cry……underneath….very very angry….just need more Scots to also be as angry…then do something about it…sink or swim ?

    64. jfngw says:

      I see Lord Adonis in London is back to tweeting Scotland is too poor to be independent, probably too small and by inference they are too stupid. We apparently need to stay under the massive brainpower that is Westminster, the place that has put us in this situation after 300 years.

      He also cites Belfast as a great city that has been reduced to poverty, not by being in the union but by inference Ireland. Maybe we could compare it to Dublin then and see how being independent has transformed this city for the better.

      Independence has been a boon to Ireland but only once they totally escaped the clutches of the UK and became a full independent country in the EU.

    65. Dr Jim says:

      The *Vicarious Party*:

      No matter how much Labour Tory or Lib Dem get beaten and battered by the SNP they’re happy as long as one of them wins so they can all claim victory

      They’re like cheap porn

    66. Republicofscotland says:

      A unionist news channel (Sky) talking to two unionists, and not an ounce of sense or truth from any of them.

      Of course the dribbling pish uttered from them was for the benefit of those watching who are still not quite fully aware that the union is on its last legs.

    67. Ruglonian says:

      O/T
      *Wings stall info*

      Hey folks, we’ll be at the rally in Pitencreiff Park, Dunfermline tomorrow – come and have a gab after the march, or a wee seat with us while we’re waiting for the marchers to arrive 🙂

      Set-up from around 11.30am – as usual, all volunteers welcomed!!

      This event is organised by Forward As One, a local group – it’s important that we all support those that are hard at work continuing to put on alternatives to the AUOB events, given the shambles they’re currently displaying for everyone to see 🙁
      Our movement’s rich diversity is a strength, and by getting up to Dunfermline tomorrow you can illustrate that powerfully – see you all there 🙂

    68. Rick H Johnston says:

      FFS Sweeney and Lamont were playing a part. Was Bolton so unprepared/uninformed that he was just a manipulated pawn.
      His integrity has been trashed by allowing himself to be duped by this sleekit pair.
      Fewer folk are swallowing this crap now though.. The writing’s on the wall.

    69. bobajock says:

      So when you set up the Wings party, I’ll be happy to stand for the List – I am Highland based, to rid ourselves of the idiots that occupy Holyrood.

      I am a pro green, pro-snp, anti union person.

      Every time I seethese morons I cry a little for the Scots who suffer them.

    70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Republicofscotland @ 15:08,

      It’s the old story of “The Emperor’s Clothes” with the added refinement (if you can call it that) of media promotion by paid-up propagandists. But the people still wise up, because the word does still eventually get out. Then they start to mock the messengers, just as in the story.

    71. Dr Jim says:

      Gordon Brown claims he’s been speaking to EU leaders and they’ve told him they’ll extend the deadline to give the HOC the opportunity to settle a deal thereby scuppering Boris Johnson’s plot

      Wel I’ve been speaking to Jean Claude Juncker who told me that Gordon Brown’s a big fibber, and my pal Donald Tusk chipped in with *who’s Gordon Brown* well just at that my other mate Michel Barnier said *the guy’s a tosser he never spoke to me* then we all had a good laugh and they treated me to dinner and champers before I got Nicola’s helicopter back to Edinburgh where I nipped in to Bute House to keep Nicola up to date and have a cup of tea but here Michel had already been on the phone to her having a giggle over the whole piece of nonsense

      What do you make of Gordon Brown eh, he’ll say anything, well, me to Gordon, me too

    72. Republicofscotland says:

      O/T.

      You know reading this Andrew Adonis Twitter feed, you realise that the outright lies from the unionists regarding Scotland is that they are utterly petrified of us leaving this union, and will say anything to stop us.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1167372289479991296

    73. Joe says:

      Any movement that might be pro ordinary people gets smeared by MSM all over the world. Their leaders lied about. The facts twisted. A very small number of corporations own most of it. The truth is if you are still getting your info from the TV you are a misinformed, brainwashed zombie.

    74. Dr Jim says:

      Unionsplain logic is that the Lib Dems won in Shetland so that means Scotland doesn’t want Independence, but if you apply the same Unionsplain logic to that, the vote for the SNP swung in favour of Independence by 14%, and if you extend it further, as defenders of the Union the Tories and the Labour partners were well and truly gubbed meaning everybody in Scotland is now desperate for Independence

      They’re very silly people the Yoon people

    75. geeo says:

      Sky News eagerly taking on the BBC for Crown of anti Scottish indy bias.

      Imagine what the likes of Paxman would have done to these 2 utter cretins !

      Leveson really has cut the balls off the uk media.

      Do as your political bosses says, or else.

    76. Cubby says:

      The lies just keep on coming from the Britnats.

      Britnats lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

    77. Sinky says:

      For all Unionist journalists North and South of the Border.

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14646/analysis-ruth-davidson-legacy-failure

    78. jfngw says:

      @Dr Jim

      Whether Gordon Brown has spoken to anyone or is just repeating rumours the EU unilaterally extending the 31st Oct deadline would scupper the Tories EU blame game and Johnson’s proroguing of parliament. It’s worth it just to see the Tories being outmanoeuvred.

      The down side, I am I going to live long enough to see another independence referendum.

    79. Fraser MacKintosh says:

      Along with others got rid of SKY

    80. Sinky says:

      Clapper57 says:
      30 August, 2019 at 1:43 pm
      It’s what SKY and other UKOK media do.

      Everyone should be complaining to OFCOM at every opportunity.

      https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/contact-us

      Eventually they will get the message BEFORE IndyRef2 as it will too late once the campaign begins in earnest.

    81. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      A fine example of one half of the British Nationalist Strategy to maintain the ‘precious’.

      LIE!

      the other half of the strategy is of course;

      THREATEN!

      This is ALL the BritNats have left.

      Lies and Threats.

      Most of Scotland’s Electorate are now seeing this, and through both the lies and threats.

      Emancipation through Education

      😉

      This is why the BritNats are shitting themselves big time.

      The people of Third World Greater England with it’s unserviceable debt (+£2 Trillion GBP) will be very angry when they realise they’ve been lied to all along about which UK Union Kingdom was the subsidy junkie.

    82. winifred mccartney says:

      Dear Mr Sweeney, I cannot imagine how horrible your life is having to get up every morning and think up more and more lies for the coming day. I am surprised you can remember your name since you need a good memory to be a good liar. One day you will forget the sky is blue and grass is green because it have become second nature to you to deny reality. Don’t worry it will soon be over and we will all be free even you.

      Ditto to Mr Lamont.

    83. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      UK Union Kingdom MEMBER was the subsidy junkie.

    84. manandboy says:

      FANTASY POLITICS

      This is what PM Johnson said today, as reported on BBC online news with video of the interview, later to be cut shorter by the BBC in a later piece, which begins ” as long as they think, in the EU . . .”

      The BBC’s headline for this Piece is:

      “Brexit: MPs trying to block no deal make it more likely, says Boris Johnson”

      The BTL comments by majority mostly favour Johnson.

      “We want to do a Deal, and that’s why I/we are working so hard with our friends and partners, that’s why I’ve been talking to Angela Merkel, and Emmanuel Macron, and , eh, Jean-Claude Junker in Brussels, actually I’ve talked over the last few days to lots of leaders around the EU .

      And everybody can see the rough shape of what needs to be done, everybody is now got a fix in their heads about the kind of landing place we need to get to. It’s gonna take work, it’s gonna take a lot of energy for us to get there, to to get rid of this old Withdrawal Agreement, as I’ve described it.

      And, um, the best way to do that is if our friends and partners over the Channel don’t think that Brexit can be somehow blocked by Parliament. (Interviewer asks a question, but Johnson continues) and, yeah, as long as they think, in the EU, that Parliament might try to block Brexit, or might even succeed in blocking Brexit, the less likely they are to give us the Deal we want. ( further question from interviewer)

      So, the weird thing is, the weird thing is, the weird thing is, that the more the parliamentarians try to block the deal, the nore likely it is that we will end up in that situation, so the best thing now is for us to get on and make our points to our European friends , with clarity and with vigour, and that’s what we’re doing.”

    85. Proud Cybernat says:

      These “experts” you speak of, Rev – obviously they were not BBC sources.

    86. robertknight says:

      “Scotland voted Against Brexit in 2016, but had in effect already voted For Brexit, (or indeed any UK policy rejected by the electorate in Scotland but supported by that in England), in 2014.” Discuss…

      The above is effectively the bones of an argument I was involved in at work today. My opening gambit being that a country gets the Government it deserves, to which a Slabber voting colleague asked “WTF did we do to deserve this shower of ******”.

      “Voted ‘No’ in 2014” said I. Light touch paper…

      My assertion that in voting ‘No’ in 2014, the electorate in Scotland handed control of Scotland’s future to the electorate in England, who outnumber that in Scotland by 10/1, didn’t go down well.

      The SNP should start challenging Slabber and the FibDems on the basis that the Brexit situation is exactly what they spent 2013/14 campaigning for.

    87. You lost me at:-‘Gordon Brown has been speaking’.
      This idiot expects us to believe that the EU 27 gave him an audience and, megalomaniac that he is, ‘revealed’ that he has negotiated and extension to Article 50 on his own, and that the EU are daft enough to ok him to relay this concession to Boris the Impaler?
      The man seems to suffer from the failings which, according to the authors of several ‘Blair Years’ books suggest, that he is as mad as a hatter.
      Gets printed as gospel of course.
      Next we’ll have some jumped up Red Tory lord telling us that we are too poor too stupid too wee to ditch England, and a Dead Tree Scroll headline/quote from the Clunking Fist’s ‘Stink Tank’s’ economist ‘warning’ that it would cost Independent Scotland £200 billion in seed money to set up a new currency.
      What strange power does Brown hold over the Scottish Branch of the Brit Nat Establishment?
      It’s almost as though there were a secret society and Filthy Dirty Dark Money behind this latest Quebec style risible attempt at Project Fear II.
      They are shit scared, aren’t they?

    88. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clootie says: 30 August, 2019 at 1:51 pm:

      ” … Watch any European channel, Al Jazeera etc or read any foreign newspaper and the blatant lies our media is reporting regarding the Brexit talks and the state propaganda is obvious.
      We have progressed very little from the days of Pathe News!”

      It was always thus, Clootie. I was a radio shortwave listener since I was a primary schoolboy, (about 1944/5). I didn’t just listen to the broadcast bands but also the ham, (amateur), bands. It opened my eyes for the news being reported on the BBC often differed greatly from what other countries were broadcasting but you could usually get the truth from the radio hams.

      I’ve several times posted the real history of the BBC here on Wings and the truth is that almost from the very first broadcasts Westminster took over by giving the BBC a Royal Charter together with an annual cash grant and The BBC has always been the paid for Westminster Propaganda wing.

      The thing is most of the public didn’t realise what it was and were all well brainwashed by the age of 10.

    89. Clapper57 says:

      You know twas NOT that long ago Lordy ‘Gordy fanboy’ Adonis..was all like so THE biggest most ‘remainiest’ anti Brexiteer…slating yon Corbyn for his inaction over Brexit…THEN…born again Labour man under Corbyn and standing as MEP for Labour in EU elections – NOW it’s like….

      Thanks SNP for your MINOR role in People’s Vote rallies…BUT..now the shit is hitting the fan…well tis time to remind you of your place within UKOK..

      You know we Scots…should give them a taste of their own medicine…start telling them we are NOT going to vote in another…unlikely but should there be one…people’s vote…because trust me THEY NEED OUR VOTE….see how they like it…because it is clear that we Scots are dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t…so why should we care what they think…it’s not like they have OUR best interests at heart is it !

      Why the f**k should we come to their rescue when they deny us a chance to rescue ourselves….for them to start their usual dirty tricks campaign sickens me to the stomach…they have no morals,principles or scruples…they only care about themselves..and Lord Adonis has proven that today with his badly timed and tactless tweets…..time to focus on Indy and f**k their campaign to remain….they voted for it by a majority so who are we, the useless poor Scots to deny them what they want…

      This rant was brought you by someone raging and no longer willing to promote UKOK remaining in EU…Let England go.

      #EXIT

    90. Marcia says:

      It is simple. They don’t want a second Independence referendum because they know they will lose that one. The Scottish Government do have a mandate and they (Unionists/MSM) can lie as much as they want, it does not change that fact. Events will decide the date of the referendum which looks a lot closer than it did a couple of weeks ago.

    91. bowanarrow says:

      Why is this the topic being discussed here?
      Talking about something everyone already knows,
      POLITICIANS LIE!
      Big surprise!
      This is what should be the main topic, even
      Ms Sturgen is pointing it out, “It is no longer
      ridiculous to say that a Prime
      Minister that is prepared to shut down the
      House of Commons wouldn’t be prepared to do the
      same to the Scottish Parliament.”
      Everything up to this point has been, and will
      stay, the removal of the failed experiment called
      “DEVOLUTION”.
      The experiment was not supose to be like this.
      Scotland was suppose to disappear in a system
      of government that could never be controlled by
      any one party, especially not the SNP. The,
      “Brexit-No Deal”, gives westminster the chance
      to reset the clock back to the way it was
      before devolution.It gives westminster the chance
      to invent a new “written” constitution and it gives
      them the chance to get rid of the devolved system,
      as it existes today and to replace it with
      something more under their control or dump it all
      together.
      I expected to visit Wings and find it disscusing
      the no brexit deal and the closing down of of the
      english parliament. I must say I am a little
      disappointed.
      The whole system of government is about to be
      rewritten and history is being changed. Please
      rev?

    92. David Rennie says:

      “if Tory voters had voted Labour instead we would have won” = If ma auntie had baws, she’s be ma uncle.

    93. Artyhetty says:

      re;Frazerio@12.41

      It was Upton Sinclair.

      The thing is, some, too many in fact believe this crap. Sky knows it, the Britnats at WM know it, the Britnats in Scotland know it, but my god they are still lying with bells on.

      Scotland is royally screwed while the government in England refuse to devolve broadcasting, therefore controlling the narrative about the actual Scottish parliament and the SNP government.

      Anyone see the ‘Led by Donkey’s yesterday, they have screens on a van, showing what Tories say, in total contradiction to what they do. Clever, but it won’t work much in England, most people walked right past, looked disgusted or just downright perplexed. Oh no, mustn’t stop to view the politicians’ lies, let’s go watch the BBC news instead!

      Lambs to the slaughter.

    94. Fergus Green says:

      Made a small donation this afternoon. Hope others feel inspired to do the same:

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

    95. Clapper57 says:

      @ Bowanarrow @ 4.50pm

      “Why is this the topic being discussed here”?

      More to the point Bowanarrow, why are YOU here ?

      Never in my long time as a poster of wings ever done this before to another person posting on here but…..have to say if you don’t like what is being discussed on this thread then F**k off somewhere else….do you think we are oblivious to what is happening….take YOUR condescending priorities onto another blog that gives a sheeite what you have to say.

      Sorry but if ever there was a time NOT to post what you have posted it is NOW….and your spelling is f***ing atrocious…get a dictionary or perhaps some comprehension as to where you are posting your comments………who gives a damn about your disappointment ….like you are the only one disappointed Duh.

      If the Rev bans me for this then so be it…sick of sporadic visitors treating us, on here, with contempt.

      ps. If you feel I have misread your post’s true meaning then I apologise in advance of your, more than likely, response…which I am sure you will feel compelled to give………..

    96. call me dave says:

      Who killed cock sparraw?

      Well … If it were to be done better it be done quickly. 🙂

    97. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Artyhetty @ 17:01,

      I’m just a tad more optimistic, because the BritNat media, for all their careful self-censorship and extensive unchallenged promotion of lies (as in this example), just cannot help showing the English Establishment tearing itself to pieces. They can’t self-censor that ongoing megaguddle away.

      We here in Scotia may in effect be innocent bystanders of what’s now happening centred on WM, but the notion of the UK’s “broad shoulders” is taking a steady reputational hit, and consequently the notion that we would be better able to run things for ourselves is slowly getting established in peoples’ minds. Not least with the remaining TV viewers. And all for free, despite the broadcasters.

      Heh, heh.

    98. Greannach says:

      Has Paul Sweeney been mentored by Kirstene Hair?

    99. galamcennalath says:

      Johnson and chums take the UK population for fools …

      – “I need no-deal on the table to negotiate with”, he says. A Blazing Saddles approach here … “I’ll shoot myself, or else” … is not a good stance.

      – “I am having serious negotiations with the EU”. Are the EU aware of this, I wonder?

      – “The EU will cave in and drop the backstop”. Really?

      – “We have a technical solution for the border in Ireland”. If true, the backstop would never kick in. So why worry about it?

      – ”We won’t pay the monies we owe.” That will really impress all those potential future trading partners.

      … nothing he says is credible. Ok, so he’s a politician and a particularly dishonest one at that. However, much of the MSM go along with this nonsense rather than calling him/them out.

    100. Maria F says:

      bowanarrow says:
      30 August, 2019 at 4:50 pm

      “Why is this the topic being discussed here?”
      Your opinion is as good as mine but from the perspective I am looking from, at least because:

      a) Because Mr Campbell, who is the owner of the blog decided so. If you don’t like what he writes, you are free to test your luck with other outlets such as the Guardian, the Scotsman, the Express, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph or somewhere else where you may find articles more in line with what you expect to read.

      b) Because it is interesting to watch just the appalling quality of some colonialist MSPs that are sitting in our Parliament and being paid for doing he haw for Scotland

      c) because it is an eye opener to see just how much the colonialist MSPs are prepared to lie, to sell Scotland and to present themselves as complete idiots to get a pat in the back from their England masters for maintaining the illusion that there is some kind of genuine pride, ethics or patriotism in supporting a cause that is evidently standing on dry sand foundations with a sewer running right through.

      “Talking about something everyone already knows,
      POLITICIANS LIE!”

      I think that is incorrect. Politicians do not lie as a norm. Some corrupt, unscrupulous, spineless, unprincipled, coward politicians do lie to avoid scrutiny because they are embarrassed to acknowledge what they support or because they know is unethical, but that is not the norm in politics and it should never be normalised in a democracy. That kind of behaviour is the aberration and unacceptable. Just because colonialist politicians want to lie as a norm does not mean we have to simply accept this. In any business situation if a salesman sells you a product and lies about what the product does or what it is and you are entitled to return the goods or you sue them for what they are worth. Politics should not be any different and should not be immune to ethics, responsibilities, scrutiny and criticism. If cheating is not acceptable in business, in academia or in any other discipline, it should not be accepted in politics either, which at the end of the day is a form of business too. Politicians are not an exception to any other professional.

      “Big surprise!”
      As a matter of fact it is, actually, at least for me. It was a big surprise that some courts now are attempting to normalise the lying to and deceiving the electorate as a legitimate way of gaining votes in a democracy and as a natural way to save the arse of aristocrats like Johnson or the English establishment useful idiots like Dugdale. Surprising and incredibly disappointing. It says very little about the correlation between “law” and “justice”. Clearly, implementing “the Law” does no longer necessarily mean implementing justice and that demeans, in my view, the worth of that law as an instrument.

      “This is what should be the main topic, even
      Ms Sturgen is pointing it out, “It is no longer
      ridiculous to say that a Prime
      Minister that is prepared to shut down the
      House of Commons wouldn’t be prepared to do the
      same to the Scottish Parliament.”

      Actually, I still think it is ridiculous, because I do not believe any England MP who does not hold the mandate of a single vote from Scotland has the legitimate power to do such a stupid thing in a democracy. I do not believe either that a monarch whose legitimacy to hold Scotland’s crown lies with the Claim of Right 1869 in which is stated that imposing absolute power over Scotland is illegitimate, has the right to close the UK parliament by force denying Scotland’s legitimate representatives the ability to represent Scotland’s interests while a self-appointed absolute ruler from the Kingdom of England attempts to unilaterally pass toxic laws unchallenged and unscrutinised and then force them on the Scottish people. And if this is happening is only because we allow them to.

      “Everything up to this point has been, and will
      stay, the removal of the failed experiment called
      “DEVOLUTION”.

      You call it “experiment” and that is your prerogative. I am more inclined to think it is an illegal version of a reversible federalism on demand. I say illegal because at no time since 1707 Scotland gave all its powers to the Kingdom of England therefore I do not see how it can be legitimate for England MPs to “devolve” to Scotland powers that are already hers and that were never the property of those England MPs to start with. Furthermore, I do not think that in a “union of equals” is legitimate either for one of the 2 equal partners to reconvene its Parliament while the other partner continues to use the UK Parliament as if it was its own. This distorts the concept of a union as somehow creates the illusion that one partner is subordinated to the other and gives the impression that only the legitimate representatives of one partner can dissolve the Treaty of Union. I personally think this is the intention behind the nonsense in the devolution settlement that “the union is a reserved matter”. This affirmation is in my opinion also illegitimate. If this is an international union of equals that sits on an international treaty, then there is no way the kIngdom of England’s representatives can ever restrict Scotland’s right to unilaterally dissolve a treaty of union where it entered as an independent sovereign state.

      “The experiment was not supose to be like this”
      Agreed. Blair’s idea of devolution was a tool to stop the pro independence movement in Scotland. It failed.

      “The “Brexit-No Deal”, gives westminster the chance
      to reset the clock back to the way it was
      before devolution”

      Only if we allow them to. Why do I say this? Because the two referendums of 1979 and 1997 cannot longer be ignored. During those referendums, the people of Scotland approached the polls to take from Westminster the legitimacy to exercise full control over Scotland. This was reiterated in 2014 when while Scotland did not vote for independence, it did indeed vote for a status quo that included Devo Max, to become the most devolved nation in the world, a union of equals and a devolution settlement that included as devolved all powers that were not reserved in 2014 and also the right of Holyrood to pass bills. So from where I am standing, Westminster is still holding to many powers that we have already demanded, as the owners of the sovereignty of Scotland, to bring back to Scotland.

      “It gives westminster the chance
      to invent a new “written” constitution and it gives
      them the chance to get rid of the devolved system”

      Only if we let them get away with it.

      “I expected to visit Wings and find it disscusing
      the no brexit deal and the closing down of of the
      english parliament”

      Well, I am sure you are aware the case is already in the Scottish Courts and is in hand. There are very, very smart people leading this case, as it is the wonderful Ms Cherry. I would advise you to follow the case yourself as you may learn first hand from those highly educated and qualified people handling the case far more than you may learn from those of us who can only express an opinion from the limited information and knowledge we have.

      “I must say I am a little disappointed”
      Sadly, life is a continuous disappointment.

      “The whole system of government is about to be
      rewritten and history is being changed”
      The whole UK and the dirty doings of an unscrupulous and greedy establishment behind it is about to be written off and history is indeed being changed and about time too.

    101. Maria F says:

      Maria F says:
      30 August, 2019 at 6:16 pm

      “I do not believe either that a monarch whose legitimacy to hold Scotland’s crown lies with the Claim of Right 1869”

      I meant to write 1689. Apologies for the typo.

    102. Sinky says:

      BBC tv coverage of Shetland by election failed to mention that both Tory and Labour lost their deposits. I wonder why?

    103. call me dave says:

      BOMBSHELL POLLING ANALYSIS: Average of YouGov’s Scottish subsamples since Boris Johnson became PM puts SNP on course for SEVENTEEN GAINS, and the Scottish Tories on course for ELEVEN LOSSES

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/

    104. Tatu3 says:

      I donated to tartanpigsy a couple of weeks ago.

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

      It’s payday for most today, give if you can.

    105. Anyone know if there is a police inquiry into the SNP smear graffiti incident during the Shetland election,

      smear,discredit,defame seem to be the Liberal Democrats main tactic in securing an election result,

      an absolute despicable bunch of rogues.

    106. Clapper57 says:

      Some comic relief via another tweet today from Andrew Adonis in his follow up to the other anti Scottish Independence tweets :

      ” The other parallel is what a century of political instability & identity politics did to Belfast: a world city in 1914; a small, economically weak city a century later”.

      Is he on drugs…non prescribed ?

    107. Heart of Galloway says:

      artyhetty@5.01 re broadcasting.

      I have already fired off a complaint to the BBC this week on their deliberate omission of the SNP from coverage of opposition moves against BoJo.

      I won’t hold my breath but… tonight’s BBC Scotland coverage of Joanna Cherry et al’s attempt to throw a spanner in the blond one’s grand designs was surprisingly balanced.

      Two people were interviewed to illustrate the piece – the SNP’s JC QC herself and … Andrew Tickell of the National.

      Not only that, but much store was placed on the plaintiffs’ demand at the full hearing next Tuesday for Jonnson to be called before the Court of Session to explain himself.

      BBC Scotchland going native? I won’t hold my breath but in any case it’s a welcome outbreak of (approximate) impartiality.

    108. Thepnr says:

      Johnson has found the magic money tree that Theresa May said didn’t exist, another £14 billion for education today apparently.

      https://news.sky.com/video/johnson-says-he-isnt-proving-corbyn-right-when-it-comes-to-spending-11798141

      Check out his face at the beginning of the video just before he starts lying. He wants to burst out laughing, it’s his “tell”.

    109. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clapper57 says: 30 August, 2019 at 4:44 pm:

      ” … Why the f**k should we come to their rescue when they deny us a chance to rescue ourselves…”

      You won’t mind me pointing out the obvious, Clapper57, but in fact you seem a wee bit mixed up. You see the reality is that it isn’t the English we are saving because it isn’t the English that will be leaving the EU, it is also the Welsh, Northern Irish and … wait for it! Wait for it, the Scottish as well.

      You seem to have the daft idea that the term, UK, (United Kingdom), is the English but it isn’t. It is both the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland that comprises the United Kingdom and, like it or not, and most of us don’t like it, but we are not attempting to save the English we are attempting to save the bipartite UK and until we actually persuade enough Scots to vote for independence then we are, “BRExiting”, along with them.

      Yes I know they think they own us and that the UK is really Greater England but what they believe and what is reality are two different things. You must think Nicola is a fool but it isn’t Nicola who is confused about who is Brexiting it is you.

    110. Thepnr says:

      Johnson infamously said that “£60 million spaffed up against the wall” in relation to the investigations into historic child abuse cases.

      Yet apparently he’s now ordered Gove to spaff £100 million in a TV ad blitz to prepare the public for a no deal Brexit?

      The punchline in the ads is to be the catchy sounding “Get Ready” which sounds quite a lot like “Don’t Panic”. I guess they couldn’t use that even though it’s probably nearer the mark.

      Johnson sure knows how to get his priorities right eh? Spend money on child abuse investigations or Brexit propaganda.

      Choice, choices. Not easy being PM.

    111. Muscleguy says:

      Thanks for the transcripts under each video Rev. It meant I didn’t have to actually listen to the pish they spout. I generally have slightly problematic low blood pressure but I’ve just come back from a run and it will be up and I don’t want to blow a gasket.

      It’s why I don’t miss the telly and I don’t listen to radio news*, it gets me all hot and bothered and upset that my intelligence is being insulted.

      *except if I’m behind the till in the BHF shop I volunteer in and R2 is on but then I tend to zone out if news comes on and they don’t actually give news from Scotland very often anyway. Sometimes the music is alright, they played November Rain this afternoon and I got to worship at the altar of Slash’s sublime playing. Pity it also includes Axl’s wailing, but you need the ridiculous to appreciate the sublime.

    112. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robert Peffers @ 7.36pm

      Sorry what are you talking about ?

      Nothing you have said that I meant in my post …was actually what I said..sorry not being funny but I don’t understand what your actually talking about ?

      Like many others on here I find your responses and interpretation of other peeps posts offensive and written with the intention to ridicule and belittle.

      Well I have had enough so do your worst because I thought this was a site for kindred spirits who all had the same purpose…I am angry today and now I am upset because when you are attacked by those who you thought were on the same side as you then that is the time to say fuck it..had enough…bad enough to deal with trolls but if you are attacked by fellow wingers then you know you are doing badly in your comments.

      If you had taken the time to word your feedback in a better way the I would responded and acknowledged appropriately.

      I wish all the good guys on here all the best…but I am afraid I am so tired and depressed at all of this…and this is the last straw for me.

      Keep up the good work everyone

    113. HYUFD says:

      Call me Dave Even on that poll the SNP predicted to get 4 fewer seats than they won in 2015 and the Scottish Tories would still win more seats than Scottish Labour even if the Scottish LDs become the second biggest part in Scotland on seats and the main Unionist opposition to the SNP for now

    114. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sinky says: 30 August, 2019 at 6:43 pm:

      ” … BBC tv coverage of Shetland by election failed to mention that both Tory and Labour lost their deposits. I wonder why?”

      I don’t wonder at all. Tell you what, though, I really cannot ever recall either Tory or Labour ever before losing a deposit. Mind you I wouldn’t be bothered much about it if they have done.

    115. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper57 –

      Easier said than done, I know, but I find the big blue ‘down’ button on the bottom-right of the screen very handy when it comes to that particular contributor.

    116. call me dave says:

      @HYUFD

      We can count North of the wall.

      Send a twitter to Boris or something. FGS!

    117. Thepnr says:

      @Clapper57

      Your posts are welcome by me and I’m sure I’m not alone.

    118. Meindevon says:

      Listening to LBC at mo (whilst watching footie). It’s all about Brexit tonight.

      It’s that Scottish Labour woman Ayesha Hazarika at 9pm she going to be discussing Gordon Browns comments on the breaking of the Union by those pesky Nationalists. (I paraphrase )

      Fancy raising your profile with another phone in Stuart? Or anyone else?

    119. call me dave says:

      Jings!

      There’s something about a Dundee Derby…much heat and some light too. Fierce!

    120. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clapper57 @ 19:55,

      Amen to all that, also. I find it odd (to say the least) to set out to casually diminish people who are basically on the same side. And that’s even without the “misunderstandings” besides.

      Please, please don’t go. You are appreciated.

    121. Welsh Sion says:

      Scot Finlayson @ 7.08 pm.

      I cut and paste this from the Express 22/08/19 (so I don’t have to sully you or this site with their propaganda), but hope it helps in some way.

      _________

      Chief Inspector Lindsay Tulloch said: “Vandalism is never acceptable in any circumstances and damaging a war memorial is a particularly disrespectful act.

      “This has caused considerable upset in the local community.

      “Our enquiries are ongoing and at early stage.

      “We would urge anyone who may have seen anything suspicious overnight in the area or has any other information which could help to come forward.”

      __________

      The sub-title to the story?

      VANDALS have spray-painted a war memorial on the Shetland island [sic.] of Lerwick [sic.] with the letters SNP, just days before a crunch Scottish Assembly [sic.] by-election – prompting a police investigation.

      Makes ya sic., their ignorance, don’t it? 🙂

    122. Welsh Sion says:

      This story brought to you by Weekly-leaks …

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/hms-queen-elizabeth-£3bn-warship-floods-weekly-admits-captain/ar-AAGzbno?ocid=spartanntp

      Britannia no longer ruling the waves – rather the waves crashing into her.

      A metaphor for the sinking ship that is SS Anglia, under the command of Captain Johnson and his (motley) crew.

    123. Artyhetty says:

      Anyone thinks the disgusting vandalism of a war grave in Shetland was the work of anyone connected to the SNP is seriously deluded. It’s quite clear it was designed to serioulsy smear the SNP before the by election, and we can bet the vandal(s) will never be found, they were Britnat operatives, obviously.

    124. SilverDarling says:

      @Clapper57 7.55pm

      Been there.

      Don’t go. We are all feeling stressed and angry just now.

    125. Dr Jim says:

      @Clapper 57

      Stay here please, in fact I insist, no I’m damn well demanding…..please

    126. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clapper57 says: 30 August, 2019 at 7:55 pm:

      ” … Sorry what are you talking about?
      Nothing you have said that I meant in my post …was actually what I said.”

      The fact that you don’t understand plain English is your problem not mine. I believe I explained it well enough.

      You waffled on about it being time we stopped trying to save “The English”, and I pointed out that attempting to save the United Kingdom from exiting the European Union is not the same thing as attempting to save, “The English”, from exiting the EU for the very good reason it is not only, “The English”, what will be exiting the EU but the entire United Kingdom in which the Kingdom of Scotland is one of the only two partner kingdoms.

      Furthermore I find your retort to be most objectionable for I did no more that point out your obvious error. However, while I find your retort objectionable it doesn’t bother me as I’m quite used to those making stupid errors being upset when the error is pointed out to them.

      What is more I’m not in the least surprised you didn’t get the point. It is very common here on Wings for people to be confused by the propaganda and use the wrong terms. It is also not uncommon for political figures to get the terms wrong deliberately. Thing is that they do so with the intention of confusing matters and, in any case, the ordinary people of England are not our enemies, any more than the other countries in the United Kingdom are. I’ll leave you to figure out who, or what is.

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:00 pm:

      ” Even on that poll the SNP predicted to get 4 fewer seats than they won in 2015″

      First of all the poll is an interim poll and not one before a called election. It simply demonstrates an upward trend.

      ” … and the Scottish Tories would still win more seats than Scottish Labour even if the Scottish LDs become the second biggest part in Scotland on seats and the main Unionist opposition to the SNP for now”, The point is that there is no such parties as Scottish Tories nor Scottish Labour they are both UK parties and thus, with the LDs they are just all unionist parties. What does it matter which of them win most seats among themselves?

      The unionist parties will inevitable lose ground as more of the people of Scotland realise just how bad exiting the EU will be for Scotland.

      As pointed out this poll is only an indicator of the trend as, in the first place, it is only a rather small sub-sample and there is no immediate election yet called.

    128. Thepnr says:

      Can you believe that Whitehall have actually placed orders for teeshirts and mugs with the Brexit slogan “Get Ready” emblazoned on them.

      Yes, sadly I know that you can believe it. have the English electorate totally lost the last marble they had remaining? I guess that might well be the case. What we are witnessing now is the death throes of a once mighty empire.

      We can’t do anything to save them, we can only save ourselves. Pack your bags, hitch up the wagons, and let’s get the hell out of Dodge. Whatever you do, don’t look back!

    129. Heart of Galloway says:

      RJS@8.21.

      Echo that.

      Clapper 57 – noo’s no’ the time for walking away. Your posts are incisive…and mirthful just when we need it.

      And RP. Jesus suffering’ fuck – will you climb aff yet high horse? Reserve your arsenal of withering criticism for Scotland’s enemies.

    130. @Welsh Sion

      Shetland population is about 24,000,

      it is an island,

      probably not a female, that would leave 12,000,

      probably not over 50,that would leave 4000,

      probably not under 13,that would leave 2000,

      definitely not a SNP supporter,that would leave 1000,

      probably a member of a unionist organisation,that would leave 500,

      probably a butchers apron flying in the front garden,that would leave about 20,

      surely Police Scotland will make an arrest soon.

    131. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers The SNP won 56 Westminster seats in Scotland in 2015 before the EU referendum and Brexit vote, on this poll the SNP are still only forecast to get 52 seats despite the Brexit vote ie still below their 2015 total

    132. Hamish100 says:

      hfuddily

      I remember winning 1 seat was fantastic and 6 over the moon.

      “…still only forecast to win 52 seats…”

      Get a life.

    133. Lenny Hartley says:

      O/T Scots Quines hump The Cypris Quines 8-0 well done ladies.

    134. Dr Jim says:

      Congratulations to our womens football team on their 8-0 win over Cyprus
      I’m not really sure if Cyprus were that poor it was difficult to tell it’s just that they never got near the ball

      Scotland were gooood!

    135. scotspatriot says:

      Really distressing scenes in Govan, Glasgow..right now .

    136. scunner says:

      It might be selective editing on the part of the BBC, but why can’t Beatrice Wishart and Alistair Carmichael have celebrated their win in a gracious positive manner?

      All day long I’ve heard miserable liar Carmichael mumping about independence and nationalism. Would it hurt to say something positive? They’re winners today for god’s sake!
      “looking forward to providing a strong voice for Shetland in Holyrood” would be a start. Still got a chip on his shoulder regarding the court case I guess.

      Wishart no better. Am I missing something, but shouldn’t there be a pride in representing your constituency? It’s a calling that should be a positive. What do the Shetlanders gain being represented by such a miserable shower whose primary function seems to be anti-independence grumping?

      I quite liked Tavish but that pair today are the pits.

    137. SilverDarling says:

      @HYUFD

      What is your point?

      That unless the SNP do not match the extraordinary 2015 result that they will have ‘lost’. Do you understand how remarkable that result was and the context in which it took place?

      The Scottish public had just voted narrowly against Independence but in the very next opportunity they used a vote for the SNP to show that a substantial number of people –

      1) would never forgive Scottish Labour and they had burned their bridges as far as the Scottish public were concerned and

      2) The independence question had not been resolved and that many wanted another plebiscite.

      Polling is showing sustained support for both the SNP and Independence whether they get those extraordinary numbers again is neither here nor there – all they need is a majority of seats and votes. To continue to use that result as a benchmark is ridiculous.

    138. Dr Jim says:

      @SilverDarling 9:42pm

      Don’t need to waste your time on that one, it’s only taking some time off from Trolling the FM

    139. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –

      Shame on you.

      Please don’t bother feigning ignorance or innocence – you know exactly what I’m referring to.

    140. K1 says:

      ‘…only forecast to get 52 seats…’

      Proportional system and they are forecast to get 52 seats. Astonishing.

      Your brain must be fucking exhausted trying to twist a forecasted obvious win into a loss fur the SNP. You sad little man.

    141. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      scunner @ 21:42,

      Indeed. They probably don’t beat Magrit Curran’s record for “sore winner”, though. (That would be nigh impossible.)

      But it’s a sure sign they’re slipping, all the same.

    142. K1 says:

      Here’s a prediction, every Tory gain from GE17 will be lost…in next GE. But you don’t hear fuddy mention that…that is a LOSS. Your clownshoed numpty.

      (made an error in previous post, fptp GE, all the same the point still holds.)

    143. scunner says:

      HYUFD thinks we have to win them all!

      What would happen then?
      59 MPs still with 9x that number taking the piss out of them in Westminster.
      Or does the full deck mean instant independence?

      The correct answer is the first one.

    144. Thepnr says:

      Deary me, well nobody could have saw that coming.

      Toyota to pause production in Derbyshire after Brexit

      http://archive.fo/VnBAV

    145. Dr Jim says:

      Jeremy’s demands: as instructed by Ricky Leopard

      The SNP needs a new mandate and it needs to be cast iron, no no it needs to be made of steel, no that’s not enough eh, gold yes it must be made out of gold, eh, and gold from another planet with some sprinkles on it, and you can’t have any currency at all because all currencies that Scotland would use would be bad and Scotland would be ruined, and eh, no breathing. yes no breathing is to be allowed until the goldie sprinkled mandate is achieved and brought from the planet Zaargh by a spaceship made in Paisley by carpenters with a limp and crewed by Red Deer, then we’ll talk about it

    146. SilverDarling says:

      @ Dr Jim and others

      I should know better…

      Also meant to say …’That IF the SNP do not match the extraordinary 2015 result that they will have ‘lost’ …’

    147. HYUFD says:

      SilverDarling It isn’t as in 2015 the SNP got 50% of the vote, now a majority of Scottish voters are voting for Unionist parties again as they did in 2017

    148. Bobp says:

      Thepnr 9.58pm. Every council area in Derbyshire voted for Brexit, so f-em let them suck it up.

    149. Dr Jim says:

      @SilverDarling 10:01pm

      Everybody gets drawn in from time to time because we get pissed off with the constant stupidity, we’ve all done it

    150. call me dave says:

      Police officers block road following demonstrations in Glasgow

      http://archive.is/lqnpa

    151. Robert Peffers says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:03 pm:

      ” … Easier said than done, I know, but I find the big blue ‘down’ button on the bottom-right of the screen very handy when it comes to that particular contributor.”

      Come on snowflake, have the courage of your convictions and name names.

      Furthermore, if you scroll on past, how do you know the circumstances you are sticking your nose into?

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:21 pm

      ” … Amen to all that, also. I find it odd (to say the least) to set out to casually diminish people who are basically on the same side. And that’s even without the “misunderstandings” “

      Same group all the time. Ready to point fingers but suddenly become snowflakes when challenged.

    153. K1 says:

      What is your point?

      What party in the UK ever gets 50% of the vote as somehow proof that they have won a fucking GE election?

      When was that ever a requirement? In our democracy (for want of a better term, the true state of play being that the UK is run by a bunch of feudal autocratic aristocrats who fight to remain the gatekeepers of all the wealth of the land and people) in a first past the post election, the winners are the ones with the most votes.

      Does your Tory party have 50% of the vote, no, they are the elected winners from GE17, they got nowhere near 50% of the vote.

      So what exactly is the point that you are making apart from the obvious one, that you are an undemocratic twisted little shite with time on his hands?*

      *rhetorical

    154. kapelmeister says:

      HYUFD

      Winning 52 seats in one election might well require a larger share of the popular vote than was needed to win 56 seats in a previous election. Especially given the vagaries of a FPTP electoral system.

      Also, 52 seats in one contest might be attained against greater adversity than 56 in another election. The 52 seats could then justifiably be considered to be the better performance.

      56 out of 59 seats and 52 out of 59 seats would both be spectacularly good results. If a football club retained the league title with fewer points than it reached in the previous triumph would that invalidate the title retention? Of course not. Anyone claiming that it lacked validity would not be taken seriously.

    155. Daisy Walker says:

      Indy 1 was a sprint. Indy2 an ultra marathon.

      But some things are unchanged – we just have to dig a lot deeper.

      Each and every one of us, in our own unique way – is an ambassador for YES.

      We have a beautiful country – not just because of the countryside – but because of the people – because of us.

      There are very few places in Scotland where you have to think twice before you would walk to the shops once it gets dark, without threat. Every country has a few dangerous places – in Scotland we have very few. We are – without being complacent about it – an incredibly decent peoples on the whole.

      How we win Indy will be the foundations of how an Independent Scotland shall be.

      For all those beginning to flag… take heart, now we do thrawn. We own thrawn.

      The British Establishment is getting very close to the bottom of their tool bag and it is no longer 1969 with only the BBC to filter events to the world. There are some tools they can no longer use, and they are just beginning to realise it.

      These silly fools in London have just divided their own forces. They have woken up Englandshire, (one half of it anyway) and they are going to have to deal with that. Oh dear.

      Ghandi said this (I’m paraphrasing)

      In a gentle way, we can shake this world,
      You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet,
      No-one can hurt me, without my say.

      To which I might add, one bit of decency at a time. And if it takes a week, a year, a decade or longer, all of us, all of us will be there – thrawn buggers that we are, yin and all. Yes we can.

    156. That ‘Get ready to be British’ on the news was embarrassing. Colouring in Union Flags – oh dear.
      Complete with Queen photo and a uniform.

    157. Elmac says:

      Re Clapper57 @7.55

      Can I echo others on here and ask you to continue to contribute to this blog. I post occasionally but read virtually all the content and your comments are always well considered and expressed. Best to take our resident curmudgeon with a pinch of salt and stay calm. His heart is in the right place even if his words are often not.

    158. K1 says:

      Most of the UK didn’t vote Tory in GE17…those other parties that took up the remaining 57.6% of the vote share, are they the real winners?

      That’s your logic right there. Following on from this, the UK as a whole does not support the Tories.

      Does that mean then that the Tories do not have a mandate to govern the UK?

      Does it fuck.

    159. HYUFD says:

      kapellmeister In 2015 the SNP got 50% and the Scottish Greens got 1.3% making 51.3% combined and giving a small majority for Nationalist parties in the Scottish vote.

      In today’s YouGov the SNP are on 45% and the Scottish Greens on 4% while the Scottish Conservatives, the Scottish LDs, Scottish Labour and the Brexit Party are on 51% combined giving a small majority for Unionist parties in the overall Scottish vote.

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/unhyjkudnd/InternalResults_190829_VI_w.pdf

    160. Robert Peffers says:

      @SilverDarling says: 30 August, 2019 at 8:36 pm:

      … Been there.
      Don’t go. We are all feeling stressed and angry just now.”

      Yes and you are about to go there again. Same group, circling the wagons, bunch of snowflakes.

      Did you actually read the comments?

      The guy made the usual attack upon the FM/SG/SNP by insinuating that they should stop, “Saving the English”, which is a downright lie. The FM/SG/SNP were attempting to save the United Kingdom for the truth is that if/when the exit is made from the EU it is not Britain that will be leaving the EU. Nor is it England that will be leaving the EU. It is the United Kingdom that will be leaving the EU and last time I looked the United Kingdom still contains the Kingdom of Scotland.

      No matter how much we would wish it otherwise, as long as we are still in this partnership, even it being an abusive partnership, Scotland goes over the cliff edge along with the Kingdom of England.

      So there you are, snowflake, have the courage of your convictions and when you decide to gang up on someone have the decency to name names.

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers (10.08)-

      ‘Snowflake’

      ???

      Seriously Robert?

      I’m tempted to ask ‘what age are you?’ but we all know the answer from long and weary.

      Whatever your problem is, please address it. Taking it out on those who don’t share your encyclopaedic knowledge isn’t a good look.

    162. Thepnr says:

      Hey HYUFD have you ordered the “Get Ready” teeshirt and mug yet? Boris needs the likes of you to spread the message. So get the finger out sonny boy and “Get Ready”.

      Brexit rocks, the car workers in Derbyshire, Sunderland and Ellesmere Port will all be getting free teeshirts directly from Boris. He’s giving them away free to those about to lose their jobs.

      Doubt Brexit will affect you though will it, your job filing paperwork on dusty shelves will be safe. Just don’t upset Cummings as he’s the one in charge of the UK now. The people of England asked for that. Let them embrace dictatorship.

      PS have you found the girl of your dreams yet? I’m just being nosy so you don’t need to answer that, been a while since we last connected, get it, get it 🙂

    163. SilverDarling says:

      @ Robert Peffers 10.28 pm

      Reported.

    164. Graf Midgehunter says:

      From the outside looking in, another view of Bojo’s little fantasy World from the DW – Deutsche Welle.
      Germany’s international English TV and news media platform.
      Store it along with France24, RT, Al Jazeera etc..

      http://www.dw.com/en/top-stories/s-9097

      Prorogueing, not in Germany:
      http://www.dw.com/en/suspending-parliament-why-it-couldnt-happen-in-germany/a-50218795

      Even the court case in Scotland is news:
      /www.dw.com/en/uk-eu-ramp-up-brexit-talks-as-parliament-suspension-backlash-grows/a-50223568
      —————-

      Have fun at the march tomorrow… 🙂

    165. Dr Jim says:

      I’m trying to remember the last time the Tories got over 550 seats in the HOC, but nope, can’t remember that

    166. Macart says:

      They can roll out whoever they want. Broonosaurus, Adonis, the graph fella, Ronald MacDonald, uncle Tom Cobley and all.

      Doesn’t matter a damn.

      They wheeled them out in the run up to 2014 too. How did that work out for everyone? Misery! Economic carnage, constitutional crisis, societal fracturing and a threatened exit from the EU.

      The pledges and assurances given? Don’t appear to have worked out too well either. The forecasts of their…experts? What do you think?

      They were believed once before and we are where we are. (When exactly were they… exaggerating… d’you think? Then or now? *shrugs*)

      Regardless, it’s mibbies time people choose to believe someone else should the opportunity arise.

      Worth a thought. 😎

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @Welsh Sion 08:40 pm.

      Thank you for that information on lost deposits – it was an eye opener. Mind you I’m not surprised I had not heard of either Labour or Tory lost deposits. The MSM tends to keep these things very quiet while using block headlines for everyone else.

    168. Daisy Walker says:

      Heartening – someone has posted some footage of the Police in Glasgow at the moment, dealing with the disturbance.

      BBC got in touch and asked if they could have permission to use the footage and the poster replied, ‘No, there’s a reason I don’t pay my licence.’

      Superb.

      Hope things are OK in Glasgow. Camera phones to the ready folks. We are ready and prepared for their antics.

    169. Alba Laddie says:

      HYUFD thinks that the SNP gaining 52 seats out of 59 would be classed as “failure”.

      HYUFD is a very misguided boy.

      HYUFD think Boris Johnson is nice.

      Don’t be like HYUFD, kids.

    170. kapelmeister says:

      HYUFD

      The Ashcroft poll published on the 5th August showed 40% of Labour voters supporting independence. So your 51% unionist parties tally can’t be considered a majority against indy.

    171. Welsh Sion says:

      Graf Midgehunter says:
      30 August, 2019 at 10:39 pm

      From the outside looking in, another view of Bojo’s little fantasy World …

      … this time, France’s Le Monde (translation via Google Translate or better – if any fellow linguists in the house).

      Even the court case in Scotland is news:

      https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2019/08/30/royaume-uni-un-juge-ecossais-rejette-un-recours-contre-la-suspension-du-parlement-voulue-par-boris-johnson_5504535_3210.html

    172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers:12,

      Oh, when anyone dares to presume to complain directly about your attitude problem, they get “puffersplained”.

      (I wasn’t aware BTW that I was ever unwilling to respond to you when addressed directly – mostly also provocatively, alas – but I do manage to desist some of the time just out of respect for everyone else. But this is a free forum, and I’m entitled to respond to anyone else’s comment exactly how I please.)

      As for you, being that carnaptious must surely be bad for your health.

    173. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Clapper 57

      You’ve had a visit from the “Head Druid” because you were not treading the “Path of Purity” according to him.

      Don’t worry about it, it happens to everyone here. 😉

      Anyway you’re not allowed to go just because of him, there’s a couple of big, burly blokes just been made redundant who’ll drag you back if necessary. 🙂

    174. mr thms says:

      Regarding the extraordinary election result of 2015.

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-34621004

      “Labour will campaign this weekend over claims that millions of people are missing from the electoral register.”

      continues

      “Labour says that by ending the transition a year earlier than the original December 2016 deadline, the Conservatives are guilty of “gerrymandering” before next summer’s Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and London mayoral elections.”

      The UK government changed the way voters registered.

      So it is now impossible to make comparisons.

    175. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Merci Mr. Sion 😉

    176. HandandShrimp says:

      I haven’t watched Sky News in years. If having two unionists with a serious axe to grind is what passes for informed debate then I haven’t missed much.

      I know the options are limited for Labour but Sweeney is a serial talker of absolute pish. I am not sure why he is the go to guy for a quote. That said, other than Murray, I can’t actually think who the other 5 are.

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @Heart of Galloway says: 30 August, 2019 at 9:19 pm

      ” … Clapper 57 – noo’s no’ the time for walking away. Your posts are incisive…and mirthful just when we need it.
      And RP. Jesus suffering’ fuck – will you climb aff yet high horse? Reserve your arsenal of withering criticism for Scotland’s enemies.”</i?

      Well, Heart of Galloway, at least, and unlike the snowflakes, you had the courage to name names. However, In my criticism of Clapper57 I used no bad language nor was I abusive.

      However, consider this, for a very long time now the FM, SG and SNP have suffered attacks here on Wings. One of the attacks is the constant accusations of doing nothing and another is the accusation that, "They were intent upon saving the English or the union or other such attacks.

      Well for a party that has been doing nothing the constant movement towards independence belies the implication they are doing nothing. Now we come to this present circling of the wagons defending Clapper 57 and accusing me of god alone what.

      If you actually read the comments you would find that Clapper 57 came out with the same old accusation aimed at the SNP but claiming they had been attempting to , "Save the English". Now I'm a long term SNP supporter and that accusation thus includes me. I have a right to not only defend myself but also the party, its elected members and its leader and the point is that Clapper 57 was most certainly wrong in the accusations being made.

      The fact is that any defence the SNP made was not to save the English for it is not only England that will go over the cliff edge and neither is it Britain for Britain is not an EM member state, or even just a state. (Britain is a geographic feature).

      What will go over the, "Brexit", cliff edge is the United Kingdom. Last time I looked Scotland was still one of the two kingdoms in the United Kingdom partnership and that means the truth is exactly what I told Clapper 57.

      The FM/SG/SNP were fighting to prevent Scotland's exit along with that of the Kingdom of England.

      There is more than enough claptrap spouted on these matters than enough and it only proves one thing – a great many Wingers don't know what the hell they are talking about. Now I'm not an expert but going by the evidence I'm more right than many who think they are.

      Here are a few of the misconceptions:-

      It is not the people of England that keep Scotland in the union. It is the Scottish Unionists and those Scots Westminster has frightened. England is not the enemy – The Westminster Establishment is.

      It is thus pointless fighting the English when we should be fighting Westminster Unionists and it holds back the journey to independence to constantly attack the FM/SG/SNP.

      If you want to change anything the part does then attacking them on open forums won't do it. Join the party, attend branch meetings and argue about what you do not like from within – why aid the unionists – do you imagine they do not read Wings? Do you imagine the enemy doesn't have sleepers?

      For heaven's sake there were sleepers in the party way back in the 1950 and 60s.

    178. Cactus says:

      Paul & John… the Beatles like, they’re history, nae guid for me, Robert P knows

      Tres bien baby

      Listen tae yer fucking radio

      Indy is comin’

    179. Cactus says:

      And remember… every day is a fucking rainbow, Scotland

      Learn and understand

      Then smile 🙂

    180. Elmac says:

      Heard Boris promising big funding increase for schools in E & W (probably still leaves them well short of where they stood before the Tory cuts started) and at the same time stating the national debt will be reduced. Even if you believe that bold claim what that statement really means is that the annual RATE OF INCREASE in the national debt will come down but the total debt will continue to rise. If you want a reminder of just how bad the Tory mess is have a look at this site.

      nationaldebtclock.co.uk

      It is a favourite con trick of successive red and blue Tory governments to deliberately mislead the public into believing that the national debt is decreasing whereas, at best, it is increasing at a slower rate. Roll on the day when politicians are held personally accountable what they do and say. I live in hope.

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –

      You are embarrassing yourself and this site.

      Please just stop it.

    182. Cactus says:

      Evenin’ Robert P, yer bein’ called out…

      How ye doin’ the night dude?

      Listen to the radio

      We guid

    183. SilverDarling says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 11.36 pm

      Out of concern I have reported him to Stu. Something is not right.

    184. ben madigan says:

      @ Republic of Scotland who posted the link to the Lord Adonis tweet thread.
      Am not on twitter, so anyone who is (and wants to), feel free to copy and paste what’s below to the Lord’s thread

      The Lord himself states “The other parallel is what a century of political instability & identity politics did to Belfast: a world city in 1914; a small, economically weak city a century later”

      Please remember that the causes of Belfast’s decline were a)partition which cut Belfast off from its natural hinterland in the rest of ireland
      b) Unionist misrule in its Orange State which fomented unrest among half the population
      c) Unionist refusal to accommodate valid Civil Rights demandsin the late 1960s
      d) Westminster’s brutal policy against insurgency in one of its colonies which led to 30 years civil strife and traumatised generations of people in Northern ireland

    185. Daisy Walker says:

      If the projections are correct that in a new GE the SNP would take 52 seats and the tories lose 11…

      How realistic is it that there will be a GE soon?

      I would suggest that the pressure is mounting for an excuse to impose a state of emergency (uk wide) which would put paid to awkward court cases, GE’s, parliamentary votes, etc, and get Brexit over the line.

      How much money can they hide from the EU tax haven laws, if they officially leave, and then join again? Whether that is UK wide or in Scotland only.

    186. Dr Jim says:

      @Daisy Walker 11:44pm

      I’ve heard this *State of emergency* talk bandied about and when they’ve used it before was in time of war to give the ruling executive all power over everything, and you just wouldn’t put it past them to declare civil unrest as a serious threat and go for it

      We didn’t have a parliament when they did it before so as to the legal ramifications here I don’t know, but again you wouldn’t put it past them

      I bet Jacob Reese Mogg would love to get his long leather coat on with his cap and armband

    187. silverbuick says:

      Whatever happened to CBB? Did he get barred for some reason or other?

    188. Chris Downie says:

      Sturgeon’s response to the Shetland result was interesting; she cites it as “a winnable seat for 2021”. Yet another indicator that she and her cronies have given more thought to retaining their seats in 2021 than they have to holding, far less winning, an independence vote. It’s looking more and more like she’s a consummate career politician, seduced by power.

    189. Clapper57 says:

      Since Mr Peffers is offering up his selective interpretation of what I said in my post then…

      Here below is the ‘offending’ post Mr Peffers is referring to..offending to him because he interpreted it as ME attacking the SNP…

      No mention of FM -SG- SNP in my post.

      However did mention Scots, as in Scots in in general and context of post was in response to UBER hypocrite Andrew Adonis..

      Note , and I am sure many will back me up on this I have always supported SNP – Nicola Sturgeon…SG…

      I am NOT anti English and I am well aware of those who keep us, Scotland, in the Union…duh…so well aware of who the culprits are… and so aware English people are NOT the “enemy”…so read and decide…

      BTW the second paragraph starting with words “Thanks SNP ” was supposed to be ADONIS SPEAKING..in other words his ungracious attack on the SNP, when not that long ago he was only to happy to have the SNP’s help and NOW via his tweets today stab them in the back re wanting Independence. My posts on what Adonis has said in his tweets are on another post further up on this thread.

      Oh and I am NOT a guy BTW but a woman…here is the ‘offending’ post.

      “You know twas NOT that long ago Lordy ‘Gordy fanboy’ Adonis..was all like so THE biggest most ‘remainiest’ anti Brexiteer…slating yon Corbyn for his inaction over Brexit…THEN…born again Labour man under Corbyn and standing as MEP for Labour in EU elections – NOW it’s like….

      Thanks SNP for your MINOR role in People’s Vote rallies…BUT..now the shit is hitting the fan…well tis time to remind you of your place within UKOK..

      You know we Scots…should give them a taste of their own medicine…start telling them we are NOT going to vote in another…unlikely but should there be one…people’s vote…because trust me THEY NEED OUR VOTE….see how they like it…because it is clear that we Scots are dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t…so why should we care what they think…it’s not like they have OUR best interests at heart is it !

      Why the f**k should we come to their rescue when they deny us a chance to rescue ourselves….for them to start their usual dirty tricks campaign sickens me to the stomach…they have no morals,principles or scruples…they only care about themselves..and Lord Adonis has proven that today with his badly timed and tactless tweets…..time to focus on Indy and f**k their campaign to remain….they voted for it by a majority so who are we, the useless poor Scots to deny them what they want…

      This rant was brought you by someone raging and no longer willing to promote UKOK remaining in EU…Let England go.

      #EXIT”

      So sorry but if I did not explain myself in my post and you Mr Peffers have chosen to view it as an attack on SNP-SG-FM then I can tell you I did not write it to be so…

      “Sleepers”…oh ffs yeh I’m a sleeper…falling asleep at your constant jibes at your misinterpreting people’s posts.

      Cheerio and thanks to the nice people on here for well…being nice.

    190. Cactus says:

      Guid mornin’ Wingers

      How y’all HOLDing up j’aime

      Ha ha, NLTGNow…

    191. HYUFD says:

      kapellmeister That same Ashcroft poll only had 46% of Scottish voters as a whole backing independence including Don’t Know

    192. HYUFD says:

      Chris Downie Sturgeon would rather be First Minister of Scotland in the UK and have the SNP hold the balance of power at Westminster than be Leader of the Opposition at Holyrood in an independent Scotland, that is obvious

    193. Thepnr says:

      @Chris Downie

      Welcome, where do they dig you guys up from? Just curious like.

    194. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 12.11am

      “No mention of FM -SG- SNP in my post”.

      Sure Mr Pedantic will mention that I did mention SNP in my post that I copied again to allow others to judge …but in my defense mentioned SNP but was NOT to attack them but was what I thought Adonis was saying …i.e. ” Thanks SNP for your MINOR role in People’s Vote rallies…BUT..now the shit is hitting the fan…well tis time to remind you of your place within UKOK”

      See you have to do that because Mr Peffers spends all day scrutinising posts that he can then target to ridicule, pull up or chastise…or God forbid if they should in any way criticise the SNP…we are not a cult … we are but members of the SNP.

      This is ridiculous…one posts comments on an Indy site and one has to watch what one says in case an INDEPENDENCE supporter attacks you for you attacking the Yoons or someone he (wrongly) perceives as being your target…now there’s logic for you….I say attack because constructive criticism presented in a civil manner is what we all should expect..excepting Trolls obvs or when one is attacked in a nasty abusive manner by another winger…hmm.

      Sorry peeps that’s me had my say…let’s put this to bed sure other people have better things to discuss than another argument once again instigated by usual suspect…i.e. the biggest snowflake it would appear.

    195. Thepnr says:

      Hey HYUFD you’re a Tory party member, do you mind sharing with us who you voted for as leader of your party and consequently as Prime Minister?

      Do you think it’s right that 0.2% of the population get to elect a leader of the UK and the rest of us get no say? Do you think that Boris Johnson will make the UK a better place to live for all it’s citizens or for a select few.

      Do you believe he can keep all his spending promises, providing billions to the NHS, education the police and spending on infrastructure as well as giving huge tax cuts?

      Or like me, do you believe he’s a liar and will be found out?

    196. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Daisy Walker @ 22:21:

      Indy 1 was a sprint. Indy2 an ultra marathon.

      I dunno, I have always expected it to be the other way round. (Yes, I realise the previous campaign nominally went on for a year or so, but even allowing for that.)

      I have always imagined the next one would be very time-constrained, a “lightning” one to address a necessary urgency.

      But then I’m holding on to the hope that it will be an energetic response to looming events rather than away in the autumn of next year as has sometime been mentioned. Or even later. Who knows? (Not me!) But if that is indeed so – and it could possibly be – then you could be right, since we have in effect started already…

    197. HYUFD says:

      Thepnr Yes I did vote for Boris Johnson and yes he did get more people voting for him than Nicola Sturgeon did when she became First Minister in 2014 and yes I do believe he will deliver all his promises

    198. Thepnr says:

      @HYUFD

      have you noticed how your glorious leader can’t keep a straight face wg=hen he’s being interviewed? Just before he starts lying he look s as if he’s about to burst out laughing. Seriously have you noticed that?

      It doesn’t look good, more people are paying attention and can’t fail to notice that. Are you happy that Cummings is running Downing Street and has Boris dancing to his tune?

      I’m not and neither are the majority of people in Scotland.

    199. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Dr Jim re State of Emergency…

      They’ve just shut down (pending) the English Parliament – they are playing extremely high stakes with very little ‘legitimate’ routes to achieving their goals through the normal channels.

      All YESSERs should be considering what would happen if a State of Emergency is called, and then asking themselves what they can do to prepare for it.

      Firstly sites like this would be shut down. Information is power.

      Print off all the posters you think will be useful now and create your own links with people (person to person – low tech) – the aim should be to be able to get the real story of an incident from one end of Scotland to the other in a day.

      Stock up on essentials, as best you can. Every Yesser is an ambassador for Indy. If we are the ones who can help our neighbours… then they’re more likely to vote for Indy when the chance comes.

      For the technically able – film footage of what is really happening is what probably saved the Catalonians from even more violence than they suffered. We need the eyes of the world to see our truth.

      And first, second and last – remember the Ghandi method. If they bring guns, we bring pens, and in a gentle way, we can shake this world.

    200. Cubby says:

      Silver Darling@11.40pm

      “Out of concern I have reported him to Stu. Something is not right”

      You are full of it Silver Darling. Pathetic action.

    201. Hamish100 says:

      Hi fud

      Johnson lied about the NHS money on the bus , voted for mays deal at least twice. He’s a liar. He’s a cheat.
      And we didn’t vote for him.

    202. HandandShrimp says:

      Nothing quite like the James Connelly Society to get the more intellectually challenged knuckle draggers swiveled of eye and foaming at the mouth. With Ibrox off limits lest they get their team banned from Europe I suspect some had pent up anger issues to release.

      Bizarrely, they would be the first to demand that their July marches should be allowed to go through peacefully without counter protest. Setting a precedent tonight that will almost certainly see all such marches refused permission to go ahead.

      There is no cure for stupid.

    203. Thepnr says:

      @HYUFD

      Help me out, can you explain what the point was of the last 10 years of Tory austerity just so as Boris Johnson can now spaff up the wall all the money the Tories “saved” by slashing benefits, running down the NHS and slashing the number of police officers in England? Now he intends using that money that will have to be borrowed for buying votes in the next General Election.

      Have you no shame? Nah! I guess not, since you’re a Tory and like the rest of them who said they would not support prorogation of parliament including 7 ministers they’ve all clamped up in case Cummings gives them a boot up the arse.

      It’s Cummings they fear and not the voters. That’s a mistake.

    204. Thepnr says:

      @HYUFD

      Waiting on some answers here, you’ve usually got plenty to say. What’s up? I’d hope it would be embarrassment at your leader but Tories don’t do that do they.

      Must be something else then, I know you’re Getting Ready right? LOL

    205. Cactus says:

      SO we’re talkin’ aboot ra numbers are we NOW…

      Here’s over four minutes worth of nummers

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPC3b3Hx4pQ

      Is a number an element?

      IF it’s not, it should be

      Exactly 2 months to go and cunting…

    206. Cactus says:

      Have an excellent day today in Dunfermline, marchers

      Go forward as one…

      Tonight’s winning nummers:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPC3b3Hx4pQ

      Aye, 592 is a number

    207. Cactus says:

      Apols for the double-PLAY there there j’aime j’aime

      That’s ah lorra lorra numbers

      1,184

    208. Cactus says:

      Hey Scotland and beyond, how ye doin’ like?

      We’re coming up to the iCrescendo

      61 days to count

      3 bells

    209. SilverDarling says:

      @ Cubby

      So you would rather the spectacle of someone humiliating themselves and imploding on the Internet? I am not the only person who found his contribution tonight completely OTT and rather than get into the fight he was so clearly wanting I did what we are supposed to do.

      It’s all a bit of sport to you, the paranoia, aggression and OTT reactions isn’t it? Funny how you always show up to add fuel to the fire and continue your personal vendettas.

      Just got in from Govan, have you?

    210. Cactus says:

      Since we’re speaking Francais…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWlc2dwbR4

      Made in 1984

      Starring John & Paul and chocolate Oliver

      Oui oui

    211. twathater says:

      @ clapper57 I will echo the thoughts and wishes of other posters and ask , nae demand that you don’t leave the site or stop posting , I have read all or most all of your comments and have found them quite witty and humorous , I also read the supposed offending post and interpreted it originally the way you explained

      I am not a SNP member but I vote for them in all elections and I like others are DESPERATE for independence , but I have no qualms about voicing my opinions here and elsewhere when I don’t agree with their actions , this is an independence supporting site run by a independence supporting blogger who is the only person capable of banning anyone who falls foul of his rules , it is not a SNP run site

      We all have opinions which may not chime with others but we are all ENTITLED to hold them , I believe in holding power to account and indicating displeasure when warranted , lest they become complacent (shades of liebour )

    212. Cactus says:

      Let’s take it frae the tap Jamie

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4YVImCvH0E

      Le maison song

    213. Cactus says:

      Or’s if ye prefers it en Ecosse…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb3vEZZQO_I

      And you can dance

    214. Cactus says:

      The door is open

    215. manandboy says:

      https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/08/brexit-has-failed-but-brexiters-have.html

      One plus one equals one – a particularly English affliction: “It is about the entire basis of the UK as a country and as a society.”

      “Even if they stop no-deal Brexit now, it is far too late to stop most of the damage. It might do no more than lead to a General Election which, quite conceivably, Johnson would win on a no-deal ticket. It certainly won’t put an end to the bitter divisions, the viciousness and the incipient and actual violence. Because Brexit is no longer – if indeed it ever was – about the narrow, institutional question of membership of the EU.

      **It is about the entire basis of the UK as a country and as a society.**

      For the hard core Brexit ideologues it always was. Which means that, whether or not Britain stays in the EU, the Brexiters have already won.”

    216. manandboy says:

      http://archive.is/zi7xM

      “‘Culture of fear’ claims as Javid confronts PM over adviser’s sacking”

      Politicians, and Special Advisers, can lie to the Electorate, and that’s perfectly acceptable.

      But no one is allowed to lie to Dominic Cummings – that’s completely unacceptable. And will get you the sack.

    217. Miked says:

      Silver darling 3.17am. I notice the cubby likes to carry out his personal vendetta when someone he does not like comments.
      A very nasty person indeed.

    218. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at 12.45am

      Well, that’s you sunk as a sensible correspondent then.

    219. sassenach says:

      Seems to be a lot of newish irregulars around lately, and FUD of course.

      Is the sh*t hitting their fan at last?

    220. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at 12.45am
      On second thoughts just keep it up . A bit of comedy relief is useful. A bit like asking Mother Superior where she keeps the condoms.

      That Ashcroft poll didn’t ask the young or the EU nationals and more significatly it also showed that a sizeable majority of Scots believe that Scotland will be independent. And we havn’t even started yet.

    221. Cubby says:

      Miked@8.14am

      Thanks for the character assassination. You seemed to have popped up yourself with a very nasty comment. Does that make you a very nasty person as well?

      Hypocrites abound on Wings and you have just joined their ranks.

    222. Cubby says:

      Silver Darling@3.17am

      You truly are full of it. Silver Darling you are nothing but a hypocrite and a very nasty person.

    223. Welsh Sion says:

      manandboy @ 7.20 am

      But no one is allowed to lie to Dominic Cummings – that’s completely unacceptable. And will get you the sack.

      ________

      If Cummings talks to himself does that mean he’ll have to sack himself?

      (Schroeder’s Cat may have an answer to that particular one …)

    224. Tatu3 says:

      Verbal aggression, repeating events/stories and suspicion are all common signs that Alzheimer’s could be developing…..

    225. Ghillie says:

      Boris Trump.

    226. Ghillie says:

      Boris Trump.

      That is in response to Manandboy’s report @ 4.21pm yesterday, on Boris’s ridiculous words on a BBC interview.

      Fantasy politics indeed.

      Just when the EU thought the British empire could not provide any greater hilarity, Boris Trump opens his mouth and yabbers again.

      Well, that’s me on the naughty step.

    227. Miked says:

      Cubby 10.59am. No cubby I read posts on this site and you seem to always be nasty with people, maybe it’s just the frustration that a lot of us have at the moment.

    228. Cubby says:

      Miked@12.52pm

      So Miked I am ALWAYS nasty with people am I. Seems to me that you like your character assassination posts and that is very nasty.

      Certainly, I am frustrated by the hypocrites who make personal attacks but think of course their personal attacks are not nasty but good personal attacks. It’s only other posters (according to the hypocrites) whose personal attacks are nasty.

      So Miked in your opinion your personal attack is ok but I am nasty. Aye right. How about Silver Darlings offensive comments about me. Are they ok with you? Are they not offensive and nasty? Or is it double standards?

      I am entitled to my opinion that Silver Darling is out of order for that post. If that’s not acceptable to you then too bad. You are entitled to your opinion. So am I but please do not be hypocritical.

    229. Cubby says:

      Miked@12.52pm

      With regards to your comment about frustration if you mean about our progress towards independence then I for one am not the least bit frustrated on that front. We are now a majority in the polls and I believe this will continue to grow as Westminster continues to demonstrate to even the hardest of thinking and poorly informed that the UK is an undemocratic repressive union that is not fit for purpose in the 21st century.

      Scottish Independence has never been more certain. The only question remaining is whether England/Wales/N.Ireland will be in or out of the EU.

    230. Miked says:

      Cubby . Ok at least you explained the situation, thank you. But maybe dont be so quick to jump on other posters, we are all on the same side, scottish independence, hence the frustration reference.

    231. Cubby says:

      Miked@5.06pm

      I am always civil to posters who are civil to me. Unfortunately some posters are not adult enough to accept they are wrong in a post or debate the point and turn to offensive comments by reply. If they do that and refuse to retract or apologise then they get no respect from me in future.

      So I do not just jump on other posters. If I think what they have posted is incorrect or inappropriate I may post my view. They then have the option to argue the case or ignore. People like Silver Darling just replied with personal abuse in the first instance in a previous thread. I do hold grudges against people who fire personal abuse my way and his comment re me taking part in the sectarian disturbance in govan is particularly nasty.

      It is a strength of Wings that people attempt to correct others posts that they believe to be wrong. Sorry but not everyone who posts on Wings is on the side of Scottish independence.

    232. SilverDarling says:

      @Cubby

      You said I accused you of taking part in sectarian disturbance?! Behave yourself – it was a comment alluding to you constant turning up wherever there was discord. You take things literally when it suits you.

      You indulge in personal abuse all the time and this holier than thou persona you have recently inhabited fools no one.

      You and that nasty thug ‘geeo’ used to prowl the boards here ganging up on anyone who disagreed with you. You were always hanging on his coat tails. Now that he is gone you are just wee coward pretending to be Mr Polite when you are nothing of the sort. You contribute nothing except to start fights.

      I’m actually glad Peffers is not unwell. I gave him the benefit of the doubt but now it makes it easier to complain about his incredible rudeness in future although as he is indulged far more than anyone else because apparently there are still people here who don’t know basic history.

      To be quite honest this site is far more important to you and Peffers than you let on. I don’t need it the way he – and you – desperately do. If I am banned you can be sure I won’t be mithering away on other blogs about the unfairness of it all. Oh and BTW, I am a woman, you thick misogynist weasel.

      Clapper57 was right.

    233. David says:

      Guys I only know of the Sky interview because the National gave it all that free publicity .And now wings I cancelled Sky years ago not for political reasons .Still got it on Freeview don’t watch it .
      So cancel your SKY subscription including Sky Sports .
      And has anyone noticed Boris is not giving interviews to CH4 News he is doing a Trump being selective .
      He is no fool he is running rings round all of us.

    234. RM says:

      Scottish civil servants are furious after engish politicians axe EU meetings, their furious but still won’t do anything about it, about time they stopped being servile do something for your money.

    235. David says:

      RM at931pm
      Scottish Civil servants I believe work for the Scottish Gov I believe .
      Anyway Saturday was stop the coup day MPS at demonstrations all over the country .
      Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard spoke in Glasgow where was Nicola.
      As FM she should have lead it

    236. Cubby says:

      Silver Darling@7.31pm

      More personal abuse and mad rant from Silver Darling. Hypocrite.

      You said was I just back from Govan on Friday night of the sectarian violence. That is quite clearly trying to imply I was part of the sectarian violence. Pathetic attempt at backtracking.

      You were the person who attacked me in the first instance. You seem to have a memory problem and trouble with the truth.

      Your logic is tragic. How can I be misogynist when you are just telling me now you are a woman.

      Laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.

      I haven’t been “mithering” away on other sites about how unfair it is. Just making up stuff now to go with your insults.

      “I gave him the benefit of the doubt”. No you didn’t you implied he was ill and said you reported him. You really are a bit of a stranger to the truth.

      If people are civil to me they get that in return. You weren’t.

    237. Cubby says:

      David@7.01pm

      I believe that the Scottish civil service is part of the UK civil service.

    238. Davosa says:

      Boulton is a fat, useless fuckin arsehole in any case.

    239. Davosa says:

      Paul Sweeney is an obnoxious horrible wee hypocrite also !



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top