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Wings Over Scotland

Contact with the enemy

Posted on May 07, 2021 by

We are, as always, absolutely enthralled at the prospect of discovering from James Kelly what our vile secret masterplan has been over the last 18 months.

So we, at least, will be reading, James.

Even if hardly anyone else will.

(If you’re wondering, the left bar is 2.5% the size of the right one.)

At the risk of spoilers, though: our “game” is exactly what it’s always been: to further the cause of Scottish independence by discovering and exposing the truth. After almost 10 years we still await anyone identifying a factual inaccuracy in the pages of Wings, as opposed to a difference of opinion.

It happens that our opinion is that the current leadership of the SNP – and by extension the SNP itself – represents a mortal threat to the prospects of independence – for reasons we’ve patiently, exhaustively and frankly quite repetitively detailed over the past couple of years. We’re really bored of explaining them now, but in short the only sense in which we want any Unionist constituency MSPs is in cases where that would result in an SNP constituency MSP being traded for an Alba list one who might actually fight for independence rather than for the obliteration of women’s rights and of freedom of speech.

Clearly James Kelly disagrees with that opinion, and he’s fully legitimately entitled to do that. What’s rather less legitimate is to do what he did yesterday, namely tell absolutely categorical and blatant lies about us.

That, as anyone who actually read the article in question will know, is an utter falsehood. We endorsed a Unionist vote in exactly ONE constituency, not 12. It could hardly have been clearer:

(When I pointed this out in the comments on the SGP post, I was swiftly banned.)

I’ve repeatedly made very plain that if I lived in Scotland I’d have been spoiling my first vote in almost all constituencies, not voting for Unionists, and voting SNP in a very small handful. But of course the first casualty of “open warfare” is truth.

It’s nice that James is finally admitting he’s “at war” with Wings, something he’s indignantly denied for most of the 18 months in question. It’s been a pretty asymmetrical war, though – he’s now approaching 40 articles furiously attacking Wings for something or other, and promising more, while this is the second one we’ve devoted to him, and it’s solely to correct a lie.

But anyway. These things are enormously tedious to readers – see the graph above for how it goes when you devote half of your website to them – so we’ll leave it there and simply look forward to the exciting revelation of what the grand strategy we didn’t know we had was.

(Anyone who’s ever met me contemplating the idea of my having a plan for anything further in the future than tomorrow’s breakfast will already be falling around laughing.)

It’ll at least be something to do during the bizarre, inexplicable two-day hiatus in the results of this election – caused by the apparent fact that COVID-19 means you can only count votes in daylight hours – and the further three-day delay in the judicial torment of Craig Murray, who now won’t hear what sentence he will suffer for merely hinting at the truth about the Alex Salmond trial until Tuesday morning.

(He was originally supposed to be sentenced today, after what’s already been a quite extraordinary three-month hold-up in verdict and sentencing since his hearing in January, even though all the material facts were agreed by both sides, and in which the sentencing was by a remarkable coincidence held back until the day after the election. It now won’t happen until after the election result.)

Murray’s appeal fund can be found here, and we urge readers who can spare the money to contribute to it. As far as we can tell his trial, conviction and potential imprisonment – unlike the infinite vileness of Wings – is not a subject that has ever crossed the threshold of Scot Goes Pop, despite what would seem to be an obvious interest in defending the freedoms of fellow indy bloggers from an increasingly visibly hostile and corrupt Scottish state.

But perhaps that’s because there’s not much traffic to be gained from attacking Craig, while talking about Wings has always been a surefire route to clicks for less popular sites. We only hope it’ll at least be better than the truly embarrassing last attempt (from a site which has actively celebrated Craig Murray’s conviction and has morphed into an all-out SNP mouthpiece that makes Wee Ginger Dug look like Brian Wilson).

We, in the meantime, are off to feed the swans.

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666 to “Contact with the enemy”

  1. Dan

    Lucky for SNP that most Alba voters didn’t waste their first votes…

  2. Dan

    @ Daisy

    Changes to voting system are in place for the very near future. I posted this a few days back.

  3. Ottomanboi

    Defeatism in the face of not getting quite what you want.
    Perfect! We’ve won cries the Enemy.
    Independence will not be given, it will be taken, and by the people.
    You will have to fight to get it. Certainly, the Enemy will fight to prevent it.
    Scotland is not an exception to that basic rule.
    Old rule, new tactic with new faces and new ideas.
    Alba has the potential to be a a movement for national renewal.

  4. Dorothy Devine

    Dear Rev Stu,

    just a wee thank you for not being a sugar coated liar and for telling it like it is .

    Many do not like the truth and shun the teller and the facts but for me straight talking works best, even when I don’t like what I am hearing and would much prefer to stay cosy under the blankets with my fingers in my ears.

    I do so wish it had all been different and that Scotland would be comfortably free of Westminster and the rogues therein leaving only our own rogues to deal with .

    I hope all those delighted by the SNP performance come up against the less savoury side of laws about to get the seal of approval.

    For my part I am deeply anxious for the children and grandchildren of Scotland – especially my own.

    Cry the beloved country right enough.

  5. Stephen

    If, as seems likely,Alba get no seats then there will be no outside leverage to force Sturgeon’s hand on independence.
    1/ Who is going to come forward as people of principle from within the SNP?
    2/ What is the plan to bring the Murrell’s corrupt acts to account?

  6. wull

    I don’t believe Sturgeon will last long. She looks ill, rather than confident. She has nowhere to go within Scotland, and nothing more to do here. Her eyes are bleary, her whole demeanour mean and weary.

    Nothing more for her to do here, that is, except for one thing: impose her passion for Gender Self-ID on all of us, by getting it into the statute book. I think she’ll move fast on that one. It is her passport to a better life.

    However much this election might look like a victory for her, or be dressed up as such (dressing up is another of her passions), I think she knows her shelf-life is limited, her power more than ever on a shoogly peg. She is going to need that passport soon.

    But don’t forget, whatever the ultimate outcome, it’s all about her.

    For those who keep asking ‘Where’s the Plan B’? – that’s it! And she had it all along. ‘I am Plan B; it’s all about Me.’ She was also ‘Plan A’. And she’ll be ‘Plan Z’ too.

    Will she do independence as well? After all, most women are good at multi-tasking. She is too – when it suits her. Not when it doesn’t. So Covid is a handy way of not multi-tasking when she doesn’t want to multi-task, but expendable when she does.

    Don’t forget ‘it’s all about me!’ Nothing else exists. Scotland does not exist. Not in and of itself, it doesn’t. It – Scotland – is ‘all about me!’ That’s what it’s here for.

    That’s what the SNP is here for, too. ‘It’s a vehicle which I – the same old Me – drives.’ And, by the way, ‘I drive it where I want it to go; it doesn’t drive me.’

    It only goes wherever ‘I’ want it to go. And it does so only ‘when I want to go there’.

    The’where’ and the ‘when’, you see, as well as the ‘why’ and the ‘wherefore’, are all about ‘Me’!

    So, you might still get your independence, or at least your Indyref2. But only at a time of my choosing, ‘when I want to go there.’ If it suits ‘Me’, it’ll be done. If ‘I’ find it’s going to come in handy for ‘Me’, you’ll get it.

    If not, you won’t.

    And if you don’t, it’ll be because you won’t need it anyway. Because it’s not about ‘You’. It’s not about Scotland. It’s not about that horrible word that ‘I’ don’t like, ‘the nation’. It’s about ‘Me’.

    It’s all about ‘Me’.

    Everything’s about ‘Me’.

    Nothing else matters. No one else either. Except in ‘its’ (the pronoun of the day) relation to ‘Me’.

    And that is what Scots are here for too: ‘to be driven by me’. ‘I’ have the whip hand – ‘so, there!’ You’ll take what you get – from ‘Me’.

    So, she still does have something to do here after all, and she’ll get it done quickly. Impose it by every means possible – especially through Hate Crime Prosecutions. These will be carried out arbitrarily, against whoever she likes, whenever they come in handy, for her purposes. In order to eliminate all dissenters from Scotland’s New Orthodoxy.

    The above actually gives me nothing but hope. The SNP is about to expose itself for what it really is. Emboldened by its apparent success, it is about to come out of the shadows, and show expose its true self. People will be appalled. More and more of those who voted SNP on May 6 regret what they have (unwittingly) let loose. They thought they were voting for ‘Scotland’s Party of Independence’; once they realise that what they have got instead is ‘Scotland’s No=tolerance Party’ there will be anger. The cracks in the SNP will soon turn into wide-open splits. When the SNP leadership finally shows its hand, people will find out where it’s been – and it won’t look pretty any longer.

    This is not the time to give up. This is the exact time when pressure needs to be applied – more than ever before – on that ‘Me’!

    She already felt that pressure badly when Alba came bearing the olive branch. What is she going to be like when it coms in earnest, no longer bearing gifts. Not as the SNP’s potential ally, but as its actual enemy and potential replacement, unless it reforms itself.

    Seeing the writing on the wall, ‘Little Miss Me-me’ will soon be up, off and away. Much sooner than some seem to be imagining. She can’t possibly last another five years. Just look at the state she’s in already, at the beginning of it. It’s only going to get worse for her. She’ll be gone within two years, maybe even one. Maybe even in a mere six months’ time. After all, it’s all about her. ‘Me! Me! Me!’ Her advantage and her survival are her sole and single priority – ‘Miss Sturgeon’s A-Z: the Map of her Life.’

    Wouldn’t that make a nice Kindle book title? I wonder if she’ll put it on her ‘recommended reading list for Christmas’! After all, she’s quite a reader, and it would be ‘all about Me’! Another kind of ‘Self-ID’ book. Maybe that’ll be the name of the publisher: ‘Self-ID Publications Limited’. On the other hand, there might be things there that she really doesn’t want anyone to know.

    Her instinct for survival and self-preservation will override all other considerations. That’ll become clear over the next few months, and it will also be the end of her. Her own passion for ‘Me’ will ride all over her, and override everything else that’s in her, or may once have been. Who needs to be First Minister of a non-nation (in her mindset) like Scotland, when better things – and pickings – are in the offing elsewhere? Who needs the hassle of it?

    Angus – described by someone here as [her?!] fungal toe-nail – can take over. His ‘charisma’ will kill the SNP stone dead. If the other two re-elected of the elite ride to his rescue they will only confirm the implosion, no matter what tools they have given themselves for the fight. Swiney and Humzie of the Hate Crime Bile are Mammy’s Boys, and they cannae cut it a’ by themselves, withoot her.

    And who is going to be the fourth Horseman of the impending SNP Apocalypse? Must be Mike Ruse-Sell. Ol’-Tie-in. Old, Tired and Ineffective, that is. Imagine these four riding out of Fungal’s Cave to spread Disaster everywhere? Disaster for the SNP, that is. And as for Her – the Great Me-me of the Self-Generated Me X Two (Me-Squared) Movement – she’ll be far far away. Having ridden into the sunset, where she hopes her star will rise anew, in warmer, better, richer climes. Far and gone – far-gone – quite totally, absolutely GONE! Like a snowflake in the river, a moment []hite, then gone for ever …

    The next independence election won’t be in 2026. It’ll be 2024. It’s not in Holyrood that we need a pro-Indy majority with a clear mandate – we have had that since 2016 and it got us nowhere. We need it in Westminster. As things stand, in international reckoning, that’s the national parliament. However false that perception might be, that is still where it counts. In the eye of the international beholder, that is, and international beholders do count in any struggle for independence.

    2024 is almost upon us. Three years: just the right amount of time for ALBA – together with its associates, the ISP and AFI – to organise and be at the ready. Not carrying an olive branch this time, but ready for a ‘Highland Charge’. Against an SNP which by then will be in tatters.

    Tatters of its own making, that is. Tatters which are already there, very close to the surface, but which were still under cover for most people on May 6 2021. Most of the electorate did not see what will very soon be revealed. The SNP-in-Tatters which is so close to the surface, in fact, that it is just about to become fully visible and what an ugly sight it will be as it rises from its own swamp. For all to see, in plain sight, even the most blinded among us.

    This is not the moment to disband, but to regroup. 2024, here we come! If the May 2021 election came too soon for Alba, as Kenny MacAskill indicated, that of 2024 will be just right for us. For a genuine pro-independence majority, that is. Meanwhile, May 2021 will very soon turn out to have been the biggest Pyrrhic victory, and actual defeat, in the SNP’s history.

  7. kapelmeister

    Swinney the Pooh is already giving interviews about how the SNP will legislate for indyref2. The pantomime starts up again.

  8. ScotsRenewables

    So, I have a question.

    If Wings is as super-popular as Stu’s viewing figures suggest, and if pretty much every Winger voted ALBA on the list…

    Why is this election such a fucking bin fire?

  9. Ottomanboi

    Politicians use Covid ppe to mask their procrastination, Sturgeon is no exception.
    However, we know muzzles are clinically ineffective.
    Such political dithering fools no one.

  10. Mia

    “I will be taking a photo of my ballot paper – particularly the serial number and if/in what way I spoiled the paper, or voted”

    Daisy, do the ballots have a serial number?

    I was looking for one but could not see any. The only thing I saw at the top was a square thing that resembled a QR code but I am not even sure it was one.

    A serial number will help someone to identify your ballot therefore I don’t think that would be permitted. A QR code would make sense for example to identify the constituency where the ballot comes from in case it was misplaced during the counting.

    The idea of a yes vote registry makes total sense, Daisy. If the powers that be are determined to deny us an exit poll to give themselves space to rig the result, then we should respond to the threat by creating our own registry to defend ourselves of that possibility. In other words, transform a threat into an opportunity.

  11. Stephen

    That’s the question to ask.
    People have clearly been saying that they would vote for Alba and then didn’t.
    For these people the SNP1 Alba2 mantra was regularly intoned to make sure that the SNP dominated the constituency vote and that opposition to Sturgeon was drawn out.
    They never had any intention of voting for Alba on the list
    The people who voted for Alba seems to have largely been ex SNP activists.

  12. 100%Yes

    Dear 100%Yes,

    Thank you for being part of this extraordinary time in Scotland’s long history.

    Your name has been added to the list of signatories of the Declaration for Scotland.

    ALBA will be putting a motion to the Scots Parliament to begin independence negotiations immediately.

    We will keep you informed of progress.

    Yours for independence,

    Alex Salmond, Leader ALBA Party

    Can people please go over to the Alba Party website and fill out the form thank you.

  13. Brian

    The man is a close minded cunt. He refuses to even contemplate other alternative routes to indy.
    Nasty and extremely sad. He hasn’t had an original thought in his life.

  14. David A.

    If you’ve ever watched stage magic explained and the kind of tricks they came up with during the war which were actually inspired by geniuses of that brand of arts it’s not hard to imagine the application of such thinking to more politically practical ends…

    You can fiddle things up in a hundred ways. If you have some fantatics and people of flexible morality and hungry wallets around to get their hands dirty then all sorts of things are possible.

    Any machine counting is suspect too as “computer says I win” and you’ve just got to trust the machine and there’s only that one point of failure or fraud unlike many many many points with human counting and not the same paper trail unless you go back to human counting…hmmm. Postal votes in particular should get scrutiny as they are notorious in many countries for a long time (and people have been caught with bundles of them before) and there’s been an unprecedented number of them this time making them capable of easily deciding elections and any fraud within it more likely to go unnnoticed. You don’t need a lot of percentage points as a finger on the scale here and there to do this with the way modern analysis works. Just a couple of percent here and there can hold and swing a seat.

    Obviously worth makinng clear there’s absolutely zero proof and just my gut instinct and without such you’re stuck accepting what we got in the end and working with the system but I personally feel that someone willing to do what they did to Alex in corrupt use of power would have no issues about doing anything else immoral. In for a penny, in for a pound.

  15. Robert Graham

    So many giving up and so soon

    I don’t know about the rest of you but as far as I can make out there are still 25 constituency’s still to declare , and NO Regional seats have been allocated to anyone so far so what’s with the surrender talk , Christ it’s not even 9:30 and the counts resumed at 9:00

    Get A Grip it’s still not confirmed the final result and ALBA haven’t died yet despite so many wishing that they would just go away , mostly from apparently Indy supporters , Christ it would make you weep if it wasn’t so bloody stupid how many have been had by this SNP

  16. Willie

    As we await the final tally it looks very likely that the SNP will have failed to secure a majority ending up with around maybe 64 seats – whilst something like 1,000,000 SNP list votes lie wasted in the ballot bin.

    An oh how it could have been all so different. Those wasted votes need not have been wasted. But Sturgeon and her coterie of control deliberately burned these votes with the SNP 1 and 2 strategy whereby a million votes reallocated to Alba would have elected every one of the 32 Alba candidates.

    And of course the failure to take the top target seat of Dumbarton. What was that about. A woke leadership candidate parachuted in to a constituency by Surgeon and where existing branches and the constituency was taken over by HQ – the sitting Labour candidate’s majority rose from a slender 109 to 1,483. But Sturgeon got her way and Dumbarton bombed again for the SNP.

    But Dumbarton is but a subset of the Sturgeon leadership. We could have had a supermajority of independence MSPs that would have included a phalanx of individuals who hitherto about six weeks ago were SNP members of long standing.

    But no, Queen Nicola said no, and now we reap what she sowed. She only wanted a simple majority and well depending on how it tumbles out she might have gone one better with a simple w

  17. Dan

    @ Mia

    The ballots papers have identifying marks that can if the need arises link them back to the voter.
    We have a writing implement whilst in the booth so these codes could be noted down on our polling card if one feels the need.

    I voted around midday and could see that up till that point the polling staff had probably had no need to issue any replacement ballots due to voters messing theirs up, as the serial numbers on my two separate ballots were the same, the letter codes on my ballots were different though as they identify the Constituency and Regional List ballots.
    These markings include barcodes and also letter and number codes which identify which specific polling station they were cast at.

    If you looked very closely at the postal votes they also had a code that allowed the vote to be independently tracked by the voter through the Idox system.

    Of course these features do not mean the ballots are 100% free from potential giggery pockery.

  18. Willie Hogg

    Dan 9.03 am
    IDOX will only be counting the votes and I remember that they did their part well in 2016, It was labour who tried to gerrymander the vote, though they went along with it.

  19. Captain Yossarian

    This week’s update on the school that’s sinking into the mud:

    I remember at the end of the Shirley McKie case in 2000, Iain McKie, Shirley McKie’s father, said that three things were needed to get justice in Scotland these days because Holyrood and our legal profession were so incestuous that public justice was nigh-on impossible. The three things were: the press, the unions and political pressure from outside Holyrood.

    The circulation of most of our newspapers is now around-about 20,000, maybe 120,000 if you include on-line readers, union and political pressure from outside Holyrood is practically non-existant but, we have bloggers now and so you hardly need anything else. In my case, WoS lets me post weekly and I have the cooperation of a Labour Party guy from Glasgow who posts all of my correspondance on his blog so that it can be read by parents and teachers at the school.

    I presume the reason this has taken 7-years is that the City Council that built the school used to be run by the SNP. They were usurped by a Labour/Conservative coalition who were so hungry for power that they agreed to cover it up so that they are all guilty now. Guilty and bad tempered. No-one at Holyrood can question the safety of this school or a bunch of vainglorious councillors erupt in fury. A typically incestious Scottish cover-up then, where the public get shafted.

    I worked overseas for a while and the way they dealt with this was to lock them all in jail for 6-years. The preferred jail for bent parliamentarians, civil-servants and lawyers was called ‘Malaz Jail’. The prisoners there were held in big communal cells. There was one cell, for example, for gunmen and knifemen and killers and another cell for Philippino lady-boys. The public servants used to spend a week in one cell and then they would spend a week in the other and that would go-on for 6-years. It was that country’s way of directing them back onto a more virtuous path and it definitely worked.

    How do we deal with it in Scotland? Here, Nicola Sturgeon stands up and says ‘We’re lucky to have these folk’ and she means it; I really think she is serious. She promotes them and gives them more money and bigger offices and more staff. We now have them all over the place and they are in charge of all schools and so don’t expect any school to be determined as ‘unsafe’ ever again, because that simply won’t happen. The laws which have kept us all safe have been in place since the Second World War but, in Scotland, they are being set-aside to accommodate failure and the lunatics who have done that now get paid fantasic money and are now in charge, everywhere.

    You may ask, what are our lawyers doing about this and why are they not protecting the public? Back to the Labour Party guy again; he was set-up years ago by a bent Glasgow lawyer so much so that it changed the course of his life and thus it has been for me too. Believe it or not, it was the same Glasgow lawyer and so the blogger has an affinity with my case. What happened to the Glasgow lawyer? Well, his firm has gone-on to become big, fat and fabulously wealthy. Much of their wealth comes directly from the Scottish Government who pay them a seven-figure sum each month. Do you think this firm gets so well paid because it protects the public, or because it protects Holyrood parliamentarians from the public?

    The Institution of Civil Engineers have examined this case for the past few weeks and they have managed to do more in a fortnight than Holyrood and their lawyers have managed to do in 7-years. They don’t answer everything but there’s an honesty there that you don’t get from public bodies in Scotland nowadays. I received three Emails from them within four hours yesterday which is excellent. They can only do so much as they have not made the crap decisions which have led us all to this and so we now all await the intervention of Alister Jack, the Secretary of State for Scotland to sort this out. Why not Holyrood I hear you ask? Well, believe it or not, it has nothing to do with Holyrood and so, with that news, we might all get something done at last.

    In microcosm, this shows why Holyrood will never work for Scotland. Folk who write into these pages usually complain about the lack of progress on independence. Holyrood simply finds the subject of independence far too complex, but this example shows that they find everything too complex. They just talk. They don’t understand anything and so they don’t do anything. Miss-out Holyrood; it’s the only way things ever get done here.

  20. unsigned

    Mia says:
    8 May, 2021 at 9:14 am

    “I will be taking a photo of my ballot paper – particularly the serial number and if/in what way I spoiled the paper, or voted”

    Daisy, do the ballots have a serial number?

    Mia – on Thursday I voted in the English local elections. The two ballot papers had QR codes on the back. The Official giving them out to me used an iPad to photograph them as well as the code on my polling card. This seemed odd to me as I’d always believed the vote is anonymous.

    When I put my votes in the collection bins I queried it with the Officer at that desk, asking if it meant my votes could be tracked and identified to me as an individual. I was told it does.

    I’ve not had time to check the chapter and verse on what I was told but I will. I mentioned it to a couple of friends and they were as shocked as I am.

  21. Liz

    If you do take time off, Rev, I hope you are able to enjoy it.
    You are the best journalist, bar none for Scotland.

    Alex S is the best politician we have ever had.
    Thank you to both of you.

  22. Mia

    “And NO Regional seats have been allocated to anyone so far so what’s with the surrender talk”

    Take a look at the number of regional votes cast in the constituencies that have declared. Then you will understand. The votes are simply not there. If they were never there in the first place or have been removed after being put in the boxes… well, that is for you to decide.

    It was quite unnerving and a sign of things to come the picture the National put yesterday before the counting even started where they put all the leaders but deliberately left Salmond out and how desperate the press were to write Mr Salmond and Alba off from the word go. I found this bizarre because judging by their recent poll, it was obvious that almost half of their readership were voting Alba on the list. It is almost as if the National were deliberately trying to discourage those Alba voters before the counting even started.

    It is interesting to see how now that it has been declared that Alba may not get any seats, the National has decided that Mr Salmond is innocuous enough to be included in the picture.

  23. Shocked


    You mean the SNP1 crowd were in fact New SNP foxes in the Alba henhouse who worked to undermine Alba and promote the New SNP at every turn. Something I stated regularly and in turn was slurred and called a yoon and an agent of the 77th brigade or whatever.

    Alba did not have time to win; they may well return as a force in the future, if they get their heads in the right place and take on the New SNP direct, but they did have time to erode support for sturgeon to the point where she is so weakened she would have to go or be unable to protect herself from the criminal justice system. This could have been done by the New SNP being the largest party but not being able to have Sturgeon re appointed as FM, at that point she would have been finished in politics and the vultures that have been circling her for the last 2 years could start to tear her apart and jail would be her ultimate home.

    5 more years of corruption lies and criminality beckons.

  24. Stephen

    To continue your metaphor…..
    The chickens will come home to roost

  25. Moira Girvan

    It was always going to be a huge ask for ALBA to make headway given the obstacles put in its path. The media blackout primarily. The open hostility of the likes of the DR – look at their despicable front page today. Strange bedfellows indeed. The reality is that huge number of people who voted SNP are certainly not voting for Independence. The NS made that clear – that this election was NOT about Independence. Many just like her carefully crafted folksy image. And her dalliance with gender ‘issues’ appeals to a certain demographic. And on it goes. There will be lots of faux anger when UK gov refuses a section 30. Something might end up in the courts. But there will be NO Indyref2 before 2026. NS knows it and Boris knows it. It’s a game.The losers are the people of Scotland.

  26. Andy Ellis

    @Robert Graham 9.33am

    I agree that it’s too early to give up, but it’s already clear from the list votes released that for this election Alba has failed to reach the necessary percentages. It was always a long shot: the party was set up far too late, it needed more defections from the SNP to allow it to be a credible “mould breaker” in such a short time.

    The bigger question is: “What now?”

    The SNP (or more likely SNP/Green coalition) now has to pony up. They’re going to spend the next 5 years failing to deliver #indyref2, imposing policies like the HCB and self-ID which lack popular support, and carrying on with the lacklustre performance of the past decade in power.

    Either Scots voters will start to realise that the SNP and Greens have been writing political cheques they lack the power and skill to cash, or they will dutifully keep voting for them (I suspect because a sizeable chunk of them actually oppose independence, but regard the SNP as a competent devo-max party and preferable to the available alternatives in Holyrood they’d otherwise support like Labour).

    I will continue to support Alba and see where it goes. We can’t force the Scottish electorate to grow a pair: the Scots aren’t (more’s the pity!) a people inclined to rise up in righteous anger and stage a Catalan style “La Diada” in Edinburgh when Boris inevitably says “Now is not the time” again.

    The people have spoken. They’ve said: “Independence? Meh…mebbe later eh?”.

    Hell mend them. We have 5 years to change their minds. In 2026 we’ll be able to point back to today and remind them of their lack of bottle today.

  27. Stuart MacKay

    This is what divide and conquer looks like:

    Marginalise the core then pressure those on the edges to give up. It doesn’t take much, just a stream of “ach, it’s over”, “nobody wants this”. That so easy to do with so little effort. Day after day and endless stream of whispers telling you to give up, give up.

    We see it here now all the time and it will continue until either they get their way or it starts to look like it’s having the opposite effect.

    It works on blogs, political parties, movements or anything that might result in change. People mean well but they are fickle. Very few want to be caught out in the open.

    At the same time they don’t want to be left behind. Energy and enthusiasm is on our side. That’s the Achilles heal of the whisperers. To still be confident in the face of an endless stream of shit is the key to success.

    Fight the Power!

  28. AndyH

    It’s pretty hard to gauge the general polulations voting intention when you spend all day on Twitter and FB.

    This all happened with Brexit and the first Indyref. There are loads of a certain generation who simply do not use social media.The message was not getting out to them.

    I would be surprised if Alba don’t get a least one seat but they have a decent membership to start with and they just have to keep plugging away.

    They need more than Salmond to front them.

  29. Lynn

    Just done the maths on what Nicola and her husband will earn over the next five years ! Not bad at all . So I think we can safely say there will be no referendum in the near future if she likes her money in the bank !

  30. Meg merrilees

    Re the discussion on ballot paper markings
    Yes, all ballot papers have a number and markings on the back. When you turn up a line is put through your name a marked ballot paper is given to you and my understanding is that you are supposed to fold the paper to show that your marked paper is put in the box.
    There were rumours of unmarked papers being counted in 2014.

    My polling card had a number on it which was specific to me.
    So, I guess that when I present at the polling station my ballot Mark is allocated to my ID number and so the vote Is verified should iff if need to be checked back ever.

  31. Stoker

    Robert Graham says on 7 May, 2021 at 11:36 pm
    “Is there something in the fkn water or booze tonight ? What’s with this shite encouraging Stu to shut up shop. Eh Who are you people working for?”

    My thoughts exactly! Rev hasn’t even hinted at chuckin’ it. Anyway, what’s with all the doom and gloom? OK, so it didn’t go as some had expected but there are positives to be found. It is what it is and right now is where we must start to do all that we can to keep the pressure up for an indyref with one eye on Alba standing *against* snp in 2026.

    FFS! We are all feeling a bit dejected but just how bad do yous want indy? Remember, in the grander scheme of things we (indy movement) have done very little to achieve our goal compared to what some countries have sacrificed, ie: their lives. So quit with the negative failure crap because the fight has to continue. After-all, aren’t we supposed to be doing this for our future generations?

    And need i remind you Negative-Nell’s there’s one of our own stands on the metaphorical stool awaiting the hangman’s decision on when to kick that stool out from under him? I’m talking about Craig Murray facing possible jail on trumped up charges in Sturgeon’s corrupt Scotland. If he can post positive comments on this possible last free weekend he’ll have for a while then WTF are you crying about?

    Rev deserves a proper wee holiday but i for one hope he continues. We need his like to continue.

    And may i suggest, one thing we all should get behind is the forming of a ‘Boycott Westminster’ programme. When it comes to Westminster elections *ALL* pro-indy folk should boycott them. And we should be encouraging *everyone* to do likewise.

  32. Dan

    Willie Hogg says: at 9:36 am

    IDOX will only be counting the votes and I remember that they did their part well in 2016, It was labour who tried to gerrymander the vote, though they went along with it.

    The article I linked to states they will be implementing E counting.
    That term is open to interpretation but covers simply supplying calculators (which are clearly needed seeing as one returning officer failed to match in their signed off document the figure of valid votes cast with the votes all the candidates actually got), but also a machine scanning and counting the votes which eliminates the human worker factor and opens the door to unseen software coding tweeking.

    If E counting is actually the latter, why is there a desire / need to remove the jobs and oversight from humans, and splash out big sums of money on machines that will have to be stored and maintained and programmed every time there is an election.

    Rage Against The Machine never clarified which machine they were angry with, some suggest it was a inkjet printer, but a vote counting machine should probably be cause for concern too.

  33. Ingwe

    So the postal votes have and are being counted by IDox plc who’s partners in the enterprise are Fujitsu. The same Fujitsu whose dodgy Horizon software led to the wrongful conviction and jailing of hundreds of innocent sub-postmasters. Hmm, what could go wrong?

  34. Stuart MacKay

    Wull’s comment @9:10am

    It is possible the SNP wouldn’t survive the transition from Sturgeon to Robertson. The party hierarchy has been built with putting woman in positions of responsibility. How patriarchal is Robertson? It’s just conceivable that the whole thing now being run by a “man” would cause it all to come undone. It’s certain to destabilise things quite a bit, even if he is 100% Woke.

    Looks at what happened to the Conservatives after Thatcher. A series of apparently weak leaders which opened the door for Blair. I know John Major was much more capable than the media made him out to be.

    Would be irony to the extreme if the change from a female to a male leader was the trigger for the SNP’s demise.

  35. John Martini

    Trust the plan!

  36. Alan McHarg

    I fear that this generation have just ensured that it will be left to a future generation to fight for Scotland’s independence. How cowardly of them. I will die knowing that I voted for Alba/Scotland and independence. I will be happy to remind others that they voted for the status quo and Westminster.

  37. Ottomanboi

    I belong to a ethnicity with a homeland, distinct language, religion, culture a history measured in millennia whose forebears preserved classical culture through translation and whose influence followed the so called Silk Road into the heart of China.
    We have been and are persecuted, sometimes almost to the point of extinction. The British promised us autonomy, not delivered. The UN is indifferent. We are divided between Muslim Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Kurdistan and are kicked around like a football. Hundreds of thousands live in a diaspora as a consequence, of which I am one.
    Try being a Syriac for a few hours and then being a Scot, even in the current climate, will appear a reason to be full of hope.

  38. Mia

    “‘Boycott Westminster’ programme. When it comes to Westminster elections *ALL* pro-indy folk should boycott them”

    From where I am standing that sounds like wasting an opportunity to vote for independence and I am not for wasting anything. We don’t need to wait until 2026 to challenge the New SNP. We have a GE in 2024 that we can use to vote for independence again. 3 years is a good amount of time to push Alba through so more people is aware of it. 3 years will be enough for Sturgeon and Harvie to disappoint even more SNP voters. What we need is a threat to Sturgeon’s glacialist SNP monopoly. GE2024 is as good as any.

    If you are wanting any boycott, be it to declare from now on every single election not matter what it is, a vote on independence. That is a boycott I would happily sit with.

  39. Scot Finlayson

    Leanne Wood being told to sling it in Wales,

    says in her twitter bio she is a `feminist` then goes on to explain her prefrred gender as She/Her,

    ye cannea be a feminist if you don`t believe in the reality of what a woman is fer f@cks sake,

    that`s not feminism that`s misogyny,

    good riddance.

  40. Stephen

    Ottoman boo
    Try being a Syriac
    We have much to thank the Syriacs.
    The Syriacs provided the crucial link which ensured the continuance and survival of the Greek legacy and indeed took it to Baghdad where it was the catalyst of the Islamic revolution which then led to the Renaissance.

  41. Meg merrilees

    All we hear is that the SNP majority is still on a knife edge- it didn’t have to be.
    Nicola said that a true majority was always a long shot- if didn’t have to be.
    Hypocrisy rules at the BBC as they talk of how sad it is that the small parties don’t seem to have gained any seats- it didn’t have to be.
    We remember in 2003(?) that there two or three small parties and what a pity it is to just see the 5 main parties- this from the broadcaster who deliberately denied any small party the oxygen of publicity! And still everyone is playing the game about will she won’t she call an Indy ref.
    Now BBC talking about whether they prefer this new way – having the count the next day! We like this new way, feel fresher, cheaper as no overtime for Council staff…

    Alex has been proved right.

    The SNP list votes will produce almost NO seats whereas asking her supporters to vote ALBA2 would have revolutionised Scottish politics creating a supermajority-but she couldn’t do that after having tried, so publicly, to destroy AS.
    Nicola’s selfish and autocratic personality has put Scotland exactly where she wants it to be.
    She plays the game and every one else joins in.
    She does not value Independence as her heart lies elsewhere.

    The Unicorn will remain chained until the people of Scotland open their eyes and say set us free.

  42. kapelmeister

    The SNP outpolled the Lib Dems in Shetland by 8% on the list votes. Interesting.

  43. Shetto Al

    On Thursday, the small Derbyshire village of Little Eaton held a referendum on their local plan.
    They did not get told “Now is not the time”.
    They did not need a gold standard section 30 order.
    They did not need to wait until after covid-19 had become extinct.
    They just did it.

    Isn’t it strange that a Scottish Government should behave as if it is lesser than an English parish council?

  44. holymacmoses

    I see woman F and her husband are making claims through anonymity. The law in Scotland is an ASS. People should NOT be allowed anonymity after a case is closed and the accused has been acquitted of all charges.
    If this woman feels aggrieved then she should come out in the open and face the world with her complaints. She chose to have Mr Salmond’s life put under a microscope in an attempt to destroy him politically. These are the people that the folk of Scotland CHOOSE to represent them. I don’t care for it at at all.Australia is on my radar in a big way now.

  45. John McNab

    Liz at 9.44am

    “Alex S is the best politician we have ever had.”

    I know. Pathetic, isn’t it?

  46. holymacmoses

    John McNab says:
    8 May, 2021 at 10:29 am
    Liz at 9.44am

    “Alex S is the best politician we have ever had.”

    I know. Pathetic, isn’t it?

    It takes one to know one

  47. Wally Jumblatt

    It would be great if this website had up-votes & down-votes so you could sort them a little cos so much to read.
    I’ve skimmed past lots of probably astute & interesting thoughts in the few minutes I can call my own today, but here is my tuppence-worth.
    We are a fantastic wee nation, we built the modern world. Our geologists, economists, philosophers, engineers, traders, medics and dreamers all came from here.

    Our freedoms from dogma and our enlightened education system gave us that foundation. The fact that the weather was crap and our local markets too small, sent our people around the world.
    We’ve thrown all that away in the past 40 years, but it’s still their inside our people.
    Sturgeon, like so many of her predecessors, is 3rd rate, petty, a controller and destroyer. She should be hounded out. But instead too many of us have voted for her regime, and today she is buoyant and cocky again. She has now a further 5 years to erode education, healthcare, business, trade and tourism, and will NEVER come up with a viable roadmap for a thriving Scotland.
    Look at her team, mugs, dullards and dead beats.
    Shame on us all except you hardcore guys in the trenches,for watching this happen.

  48. holymacmoses

    Do you enjoy this work Wings?

  49. Astonished

    OK Folks as disappointed as the rest of us sane folks.

    Points to consider : The genderwoowoo now has free rein. It remains deeply unpopular with members and the electorate. It will be sturgeon’s downfall.

    Sturgeon will never deliver a referendum. Eventually everyone will see through her.

    Every SNP1 +2 voter will see their million votes flushed down the pan . I imagine they will question why the leadership pushed this position, to Scotland’s detriment.


    I suggest we prepare Alba for the westmonster elections.

    1. Have a pledge if a majority of SNP MPs then negotiations for indy begin. Any SNP candidate not willing to sign the pledge then Alba stand a candidate against them. I suggest the candidates stand under the Yes banner.

    Beginning negotiations as soon as there is a win is already out there. It is a position that will become more popular as sturgeon lets everyone down.

  50. Daisy Walker

    Perthshire North – 16,000 + votes on the SNP list

    Murdo is very grateful.

    Both Votes Stupid.

    By the way, phoning round… folk are not disheartened. The theme coming through is Practical, Determined, Analytical, Re-evaluating tactics. That last bit is important, no-one is looking to keep losing a rigged game.

    A Random thought… what they do to us, to control!

    They buy up the land and housing, they take over control of the jobs (specially the well paid ones) they gatekeeper recruitment and promotion of Scots. They gatekeeper all training and learning that lead to self expression and better jobs.

    And yet, we are everywhere, in every single workplace and street. If we start to harness it in a co-ordinated way – we can by-pass that control. Including, dare I say it our own currency.

  51. holymacmoses

    The nature of the controlling classes in Scotland seems to have graduated from ‘roguish’ to ‘loathsome’.
    If ‘The Master of Ballantrae’ is to be believed – and I think Stevenson was a damned good historian – what we have as the inheritors of Ballantrae are the McKellars of this country. Mean, greedy forked-tongued liars who serve no-one but themselves. These ‘factors’ are the folk who ‘won’ after the 45.

  52. Republicofscotland

    With the SNP so far looking like they’re running away with it, just imagine if this election had been a plebiscite as we asked for.

  53. holymacmoses

    Republicofscotland says:
    8 May, 2021 at 10:44 am
    With the SNP so far looking like they’re running away with it, just imagine if this election had been a plebiscite as we asked for.


  54. Daisy Walker

    We all know the expression, ‘live each day as if its the first in an Independent Nation’.

    Lets think different for now.

    Live each day, as if its the first in an Occupied Country.

    Now examine the mindset. It opens up an entirely new book in tactics (lawful ones I might add).

    We must change our own mindsets about what we do that works, and what we need to do – and not do – from now on in order to win.

  55. Soda

    The next battle is not the next westminster election or the next holyrood election… its right now!
    I was under no illusion that Alba were actually going to take seats in an election that was held just a few weeks after the party came into being.
    My focus was already way beyond this futile yet nessecary endeavour.

    Next years council elections is where we start proper. Where we stand against this SNP. Where we bloody noses and state our intent.

    Where we stand against the Scottish Nicola Party.

  56. jockmcx

    Not dishearted at all,mighty grateful to the rev for showing
    us who these people are.

    And mightily unimpressed by indy supporters who say they want
    a better country.

  57. wull

    Stuart MacKay @ 10.09: I agree with you. A man pushing the gender agenda that Sturgeon is pushing wouldn’t get away with. Ironically, in part because far more men would push back against him – and openly ridicule him – in a way that they won’t against a woman. Or not so easily, at least.

    It might even be the case that many women would find a man pushing such at agenda an easier target to hit out at than one of their own sex. Especially when it comes to speaking out in public.

    I could be quite wrong about all that. Nevertheless, I can just see Angus inheriting Sturgeon’s mantle – the mind boggles: wouldn’t he look funny dressed like that? – and making a complete fool of himself. While the good ship SNP takes a quick and unending plummet, right down to the bottom of Davy Jones’s locker.

    That makes a nice film, in my head – quite enjoyable, really. The thought of it fair cheers me up on this rather dismal day.

    Mia @ 10.14: I agree with you there, 100%. 2024 has to be the target date. That gives Alba just the amount of time it needs. Let it sink deeper roots, and grow and grow. It has to become a grass-roots movement, as the SNP once was. Or, rather, deeply embedded in a grassroots movement that is bigger than itself.

    2024 is just the right amount of time for the SNP to implode in, as well. Either implode completely, or reform itself radically – or splinter into various pieces which will go their different ways, with the best of them heading for Alba.

    By 2024 Alba (and its associates?) could already be the main independence Party. And it won’t be a one-man show. Not just Alex Salmond, but also, together with him, plenty of other political heavy-weights as well. I do hope Joanna Cherry will eventually come over to it (though I expect, and appreciate, that in all probability she’s currently very much enjoying having some time outside the limelight of it all – a well deserved break).

    Talking of breaks, I agree with Liz @ 9.44 as well. If the owner of the site takes a well deserved break, I hope he is able to enjoy it fully.

    meanwhile, while fully respecting his freedom, and whatever decision he eventually takes, I also hope he will opt to stay with it. With Scotland’s cause, that is. If ever Scotland needed a fighter for Truth and Freedom – as she so often has done – it is now more than ever.

    I know his commitment to these two values is total: whatever he does will rest on commitment to both truth and freedom. I have always seen that commitment as quintessentially Scottish, Even though it is also true that Scots so committed have often – almost always – had to fight enemies within as well as furth of Scotland’s shores.

    Yet without these two values, and the inherent link between them, Scotland would not exist. The fact is that she does and, I believe, always will. Even at moments in our history when we seem to be at the nadir of our fortunes, with truth and freedom virtually extinguished from the whole land – and their and our enemies are rejoicing – just at those nadir moments, Scotland tends to come alive again and rises from the ashes.

    Truth and freedom are values that simply CANNOT be put down, no matter what. Sure, if you extinguish them, you will extinguish Scotland. But it simply CAN’T be done.

    In the end, Scotland can’t be un-done. Not by gold, or oil, or corruption, or by lies, or greed, or political chicanery or falsehood or tyranny. What lies under Scotland, and sustains it, is not the riches of wealth, but simple Truth and Freedom. These are the only firm foundations which make her sustainable, and on which she will always rest. They are invincible.

    No matter how hard they are suppressed, they still rise up through the rubble. You cannae keep them doon. Like thistles, in fact.

  58. Andy Ellis

    @Soda 10.57am

    I think you are correct. It strikes me looking at some of the voting figures from Thursday though that while British nationalists in Scotland appear to have understood the logic of tactical voting to maximise unionist seats, Scottish nationalists by and large have failed to do likewise.

    The SNP ultras are determined to strangle Alba at birth. They are only interested in unconditional surrender and uncritical acceptance of their platform. There will be no accommodation or cooperation coming from them.

    The cosy sinecures of devolutionary government for the SNP and Green party activists and their tame quangos depend on them talking the talk about delivering #indyref2 “somewhen” but not walking the walk in order keep “soft No’s” onside. They are quite happy to vote SNP because they know it means more of the same essentially ad infinitum.

    Less “work each day as if you live in the early days of a better nation”, more “work each day as if you live in the eternal present of a devolutionary statelet”.

    How depressing.

  59. kapelmeister

    Plaid Cymru have had a disappointing result after showing promise a year or two ago. Perhaps lockdown, and all its rules, has instilled a certain temporary docility in a lot of people, which works against them voting radically for parties like Plaid and Alba.

    If that’s the case then that would be a contributory factor to Alba’s lack of a breakthrough this first time.

  60. DJ

    pixal says:
    8 May, 2021 at 11:09 am
    the only folk who undermined alba were the no votes snp trolls on here.

    Don’t worry pixal, after today you won’t see them. Job done.

  61. Ottomanboi

    Stephen 10:20
    Yes, my ancient forebears helped to keep classical learning «alive». Without us there might not have been this
    We are blessed with a skill in languages. In my parents families 7 are currently spoken with the addition of dialect variations; being nomads by force of political circumstance. I feel we have been, historically, very useful idiots.

  62. Stephen

    For Scotland to become independent the current SNP leadership need to be brought down.
    This is because the current SNP leadership do not want independence.

    There are plenty of ways of bringing them down.

    We should concentrate on that now.

    (btw the predictive text on this blog is poor. It often leads to word changes which cannot be rectified)

  63. Bob Mack

    Yet another glorious opportunity passes us by to force Westminster into agreement, and for what?

    SNP voters believing the old 1 and 2 mantra.

    I do now actually believe we Scots are indeed too stupid to be independent.

    We will keep on as long as we can but I feel Nicola has successfully led everyone up another dead end. Sad.

  64. Breeks

    I’d be lying if I said I was feeling good about the result. I’m tremendously disappointed ALBA’s message didn’t make a breakthrough, but I was equally disappointed when Sturgeon capitulated to Brexit without so much as a fight.

    I was equally disappointed when Sturgeon showed her constitutional illiteracy overruling Scotland’s sovereign mandate to remain in Europe.

    I was equally disappointed when Joanna Cherry’s insightful Court victories, rejecting Article 50 as a sovereign prerogative, and affirming the UK PM could be bound by Scots Law, were not exploited but left to gather dust.

    The only thing Sturgeon delivers is grinding disappointment. This isn’t a new phenomenon to us on Wings, but it will be a new phenomenon to the hordes of SNP List voters who have just squandered a clear and direct run at Independence. Wakey wakey douchebags. You’ve just shat on your own doorstep.

    The story over the next few days is going to be the utter tragedy of SNP list votes being pissed up against the wall to deliver seats for Unionists and ZERO meaningful progress as yet another blistering indictment of Sturgeon’s strategic incompetence.

    Alex Salmond’s brilliant ALBA initiative would have delivered an unstoppable Supermajority if the SNP voters had embraced it. I hope that betrayal sits well on the SNP’s shoulders, because they will be having it thrown in their face over, and over, and over again. Trust me.

    And don’t lose faith in Alex Salmond people. The man is an ideas factory and I wish we had a hundred more like him. The ALBA Party is barely six weeks old, but launched more initiatives than Sturgeon has managed in six years.

    Maybe we should all rediscover the Wee Ginger Dug blog so all those smart arse clever dicks can tell us what the plan is now, now the smug bastards have sabotaged the lively initiative of a pro independence, Section 30 busting, Holyrood Supermajority.

  65. Baxter 1967

    Khalid Mahmood, Labour Party defence spokesperson, has resigned from Starmer’s front bench, stating that Labour has been taken over by “a London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors”. How right he is in recognising that working class voters are turned off by this political style which is destroying the Labour Party and turning it into a vanity project for the middle class, public sector, university wokedom. Yet Sturgeon’s SNP is no different to this and would go the same way as the English Labour Party but manages to survive because she can also appeal to a desire for independence amongst a patriotic base. The fact that she has not brought this forward one millimetre does not seem to register with them so far.
    Alba need to reject identity politics and promote fairness and traditional values and above all make the expansion of the economy front and centre so that Scotland can create the wealth needed to fund a welfare state. Salmond understands economics as do people close to him and for project Alba to gain ground a distinct distance from the SNP’s social and economic policies is required.

  66. ScotsRenewables

    (received this morning)

    Dear Nick B…..

    In these unprecedented times, I hope that you and your loved ones are safe and healthy.

    Just as you have given support to the SNP in the past, I wanted to send you my support and positive thoughts.

    In these uncertain times, we need your support more than ever. 95 per cent of our total income coming from voluntary contributions like yours.

    So by renewing your membership now – due on 05/07/2021 – you’d be really helping us keep the party finances ticking over.

    We appreciate that the coronavirus has had a significant impact on all our lives and we know it has been very hard for many of you.

    So we?ve introduce some new ways we are able to support you in continuing your membership.

    If you can, please renew now:

    With a payment card online
    Call our member care team on ?0131 525 8925?. The team are ready to help you 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday
    Meantime, thank you for your support and understanding.

    Take care and wherever you are, please be mindful of others and look after yourself.

    Peter Murrell
    Chief Executive


    No thank you. I will not be contributing. The SNP is no longer the party I joined. I no longer even believe the SNP is interested in independence.

    Why? The reasons are legion.

    The total erosion of party democracy at conference and in the NEC

    The relentless persecution of Alex Salmond and the attempt to (in the public mind at least) negate the court verdict.

    The colossal waste of public money (running into millions) on the Police Scotland investigation and the fatally flawed, illegal harassment enquiry.

    The deliberate and repeated obstruction of the subsequent parliamentary enquiry, the refusal to hand over documents, and the endless redactions that rendered said documents useless when handed over.

    Your own personal shifty half-truths and evasion at the enquiry.

    Your refusal to let elected finance officers on the NEC see the accounts.

    The missing £600,000 in the ring-fenced independence fighting fund.

    Your very existence as CEO of the party when your marriage indicates a very obvious conflict of interest.

    The ludicrous obsession with gender politics that affect less than 1% of the population over issues that matter to all of us – like independence.

    The pathetic video from your wife pleading with a handful of angry transgender activists to come back while ignoring the ongoing membership haemmorage caused by pandering to a tiny bunch of deluded entryists.

    The refusal to condemn the vile threats to Joanna Cherry and others from within the party.

    The pathetic, lacklustre election campaign that has resulted in the party failing to gain a majority in spite of every ALBA supporter lending you their constituency vote.

    The reckless burning of one million SNP list votes that could have elected other pro-independence MSPs

    … and now the insufferable arrogance to ask me for more money to burn in the face of real independence supporters.

    No Mr. Murrell, I cast my last vote for the SNP yesterday. As far as I am concerned, the party no longer supports independence or has a shred of credibility or honesty left.

    Yours for Scotland,

    Nick B…..

    Sent from my Huawei phone

  67. Stoker

    Mia says on 8 May, 2021 at 10:14 am

    “From where I am standing that sounds like wasting an opportunity to vote for independence and I am not for wasting anything.”

    Do me a favour and just fuck off with your bullshit. No amount of representatives at Westminster will bring us nearer indy. THIS, folks, is why we’re fucked. Bullshitters spouting shit despite all the evidence we’ve experienced. *STILL* talking of a route we did several years ago and look at what that got us. Maybe “Mia” can show us all how successful it was then because i’ve obviously missed the referendum it brought us.

    Like when Unionists all watching England playing football only to come out of Westminster’s bars at half-time to vote a motion down before hurrying back to their football match. They played absolutely no part in the debate but the snp goal was utterly outvoted and this screwball thinks sending another snp majority to Westminster is going to get us a vote on indy?

    Please don’t all laugh at once folks. This will be the same sort of person who worries that the BritNat media may portray anything that indy supporters do in a negative light. Needs a serious wake-up call. SNP scum at Westminster are also responsible for all the crap against Cherry and this so-called indy supporter wants to reward them by keeping them in jobs? DOH!

    ‘Mia’ = Pension Pete? 🙂 By all means, you carry right on playing Westminster’s game and you will be here barking at the moon 20, 30, 40 years from now. And if ALBA decide to join in the Westminster farce i’m one vote they’ll not be getting. They said it themselves, we only need a Holyrood supermajority but Sturgeon & Co fucked that right up with their insistence on the “Both Votes” mantra. Alba supporters also never had the time to expose the “Greens” etc. We don’t need London, Edinburgh is good enough.

  68. J.o.e

    I don’t know Alex Salmond. I have never even met him. However I know enough to know that I would not want to be his political opponent.

    The idea that this mans plan was to get people voting SNP 1 and ALBA 2 and then go on to win a super majority to gain independence is quite laughable.

    I believe he is far more of a realist and far more of a chess player than this.

    The way he offered to work the SNP on constituency v list votes, and the way the SNP leadership behaved in the face of this, should be the proof positive, that even the thickest cannot deny, that the SNP is not working towards Scottish Independence.

    He has won this first pass in my view. All the SNP had to do was broadcast ‘yes, SNP 1 and Alba 2 and we can do it’. They didn’t.

    Obviously the more seats Alba could win the better. But the underlying victory that I believe Mr Salmond was looking for was in the SNP doing exactly what they did.

    Just to hammer it home – anybody who thought the SNP would work with Alba is pitiably stupid, gormless beyond belief and naïve to the point where they are probably a danger to themselves.

    Alex Salmond is far smarter than that.

    One could read this and say ‘Yes, but look how this is going. If the SNP are still in power without a reasonable number of Alba seats then its more wasted years’.


    There are other ways to fight what we are up against including legal actions in both national and international law. You have to get onboard on an issue by issue basis and back the people who are leading the way to the hilt – such as the girls fighting the GRA. Others will have a better idea of exactly what I am talking about but this is just an example.

    Lastly – I cannot think of a better resource for this than if WOS continues onward. Right now I believe some of the evil bastards who are turning our country to shit would be happier about WOS closing shop than they would about winning the election.

    My advice to WOS would be to expand to accept monthly subscriptions in order to finance a bigger operation, something akin to the UK column, where whistleblowers and other assorted experts can be interviewed and with short videos released for easy consumption and easy for activists to share

  69. Stephen

    Firstly sorry for the syntax error in my previous post – down to predictive text.

    It is really encouraging that such traditions are being maintained.
    I don’t know if you have read
    The Aristotelian tradition in syriac by John W Watt
    Aristotle’s rhetoric in the east by uwe vagelpohl
    Aristotle’s poetics by leonardo taran
    Sergius of reshaina introduction to Aristotle and his categories by Sami aydin

  70. iain mhor

    Whether Alba gain a list seat or not, the votes are quantifiable.

    I am old enough to remember it wasn’t ‘How many seats did the SNP get’? but ‘How many votes’? That was where the momentum began.

    People saw the support, saw where the numbers were close to taking seats. People sat up and took notice, more took heart and pushed those votes next run out. The SNP began taking seats, gained momentum and the rest is history.

    It would have been nice to have an overnight success and suggesting it takes time to build an independence party smacks of the much villified ‘gradualism’ – but it will happen.

    One thing changed (anecdotally) many more of the electorate are asking what they have never asked before: ‘What is AMS, what is d’Hondt’, ‘How should I vote’?

    A question a little late in the asking and most will have defaulted to SNP 1&2 in confusion – but they’ll be looking to see how that panned out – they may not be happy.

    The Scottish electorate can seem slow on the uptake, but they do do learn.

    Politics abhors a vacuum.

  71. ScotsRenewables

    (Anyone else feeling similarly inclined is welcome to use this as a template, edit or add to it as you see fit)

  72. kapelmeister

    Kate Forbes says Johnson is “scared of the result” in the SP election. Aye right dearie.

  73. Auld Jock

    @ScotsRenewables 11:21

    Absolutely brilliant and so well put..unbelievable the amount of people who just can’t see this…

  74. unsigned

    Shetto Al says:
    8 May, 2021 at 10:24 am

    On Thursday, the small Derbyshire village of Little Eaton held a referendum on their local plan.
    If their LP has the same ineffectual influence as ours does, it’ll just be another example of the sham that is “democracy”.

  75. Andy Ellis


    It rather begs the question why you remain a member of a party you no longer believe is interested in delivering independence?

  76. Salmond dindunuffin

    We don’t need conspiracy theories to explain the failure of Alba this time around. It can all be adequately put down, as one Twatterer piquantly puts it, to “media suppression.” And let’s not forget that so-called pro-indy journalism behaved in every bit as co-opted a manner on this as the Unionist media. I carefully monitored Bella Caledonia for example for even one hint that Mike Small ever actually read the manifesto and would, on that basis, retract his smears about us being an alt-right movement. But no. These people who started out mouthing “don’t hate the media, be the media” slogans have degenerated into a devolved parallel version of the UK media, except serving our comprador permanent SNP establishment instead of Labour/Tory.

    They use the same tactics and the same bad faith, and in many ways have the same clientelist strings attached to the SNP as the likes of the BBC have to Westminster.

  77. DJ

    Wull @ 11.11 am

    Agree with much of what you say.

    And a little observation…a handful of French fishing boats turn up in Jersey harbour and voila,
    the MSM from across the world take an interest. No violence, nobody hurt but the point made.

  78. Ian Brotherhood

    @Daisy Walker –

    Hear hear.

  79. James Che.

    The psychology onslaught on here to impale the Scots mind to give up on independence has increased many fold this last six months especially,
    Infiltration is not necessarily limited to political parties, it has been used in media outlets across the world as suggestive methods on the public, to guide the minds of public opinion.via bill boards, buses and advertising.
    Think of Ruthie on the tank as an obvious overt message,
    Then the is the more regular experts streamed out over the years that have been telling us we are to wee, to poor,
    Warfare nowadays is is not limited to physical, but psychological suggestions over long periods.
    Well we all found out we were not to wee or to poor to go it alone thanks to the wee blue book, and many others whom did research and blogs for our benefit.
    The increase of bullying and derogatory comments on the infiltrated Scottish blog sites is also a psychology weapon with purpose, to cause and create a feeling of inferiority among us, to silence us from commenting, ( breeks, Mia and a few others have been targeted this year by some pretty nasty stuff).
    To wee, to poor to stupid, was meant to sink into the Scottish psyche.
    Only being Scottish we got angry at the the insults instead and rallied closer together as a nation.
    Having been bullied myself when I was young, it become much easier to recognise the markers of psychological bullying,
    And typically I have reacted in a Scottish manner, I got up of off my knees, and came out the opposite personality, now I can not only manage these bullying methods, recognise them early on, but stand up when I see any one else being bullied,
    What was once my weakness has turned into my strength for others,
    I have noticed that many people stopped commenting here over the last year as they have been deliberately verbally derogatorily attacked,
    We are stronger when we stand up against the bullies,
    Enlightenment came to me, after eight or nine years of being bullied, the day I stood up to the several bullies, and they all left howling to their mothers.
    It really was a light bulb moment when I realised that others had also been under going this mental torture to to point that some had felt suicidal,
    I am by no means a hero, I had been contemplating ways out of it too up to that point when I snapped.
    We must stop others from bullying those whom may be considering suicide as a way alternative to living through hell every day.
    We have to stand together and see off the bullies together on here one of our few Scottish blog sites has become infiltrated on masse this year,
    Debate is good, mental bullying as I have witnessed here this year is dangerous for the well-being of all Scots.
    Let’s stand up and call it and them out for what it is,
    Enable those that are not so strong have a voice, to be able to comment without fear.

  80. Auld Jock

    My concern is not how brilliant AS is. It’s how do we Alba make a breakthrough if we are being shut out at every angle. No MSM on board, the Biased bbc and other media outlets exclude us at every opportunity. No radio coverage…it’ll be difficult to get a leg up if we can’t promote ourselves. More like an underground movement..than mainstream

  81. Shocked


    Spoken like a true sturgeonite, Queen Nicola first and fuck the country. Anyone who opposes the lying criminal Sturgeon and her deranged personality cult is a troll.

  82. Ottomanboi

    STEPHEN 11:26
    Still in my teens and my families version of Syriac technically «Chaldean neo Aramaic» is anything but pure with Arabic, French, Turkish and American filling lexical gaps. Very bad!
    Delighted you know this stuff. We are not yet forgotten.

  83. Meg merrilees

    Dan @ 9.00am

    Most ALBA voters I know were NOT voting SNP 1 because they couldn’t bring themselves to and I’m sure that wasn’t just the case in Stirling.
    Bottom line is the SNP won the constituency which means their divider is higher for the list vote division and who knows, maybe, just maybe, that 1000 ALBA votes when added to any others in the region might just turn into an ALBA MSP – we can hope.

  84. T.roz

    Perhaps a future party or coalition of parties to fight the next Westminster election could be Alba(scot) and st George party(engl) to promote and accelerate independence for Both Scotland and England

  85. J.o.e

    @Auld Jock

    Public trust in mainstream media and ‘official’ (establishment compliant) sources is dropping world wide. It might take slower in Scotland for whatever reason but its happening world wide and is happening here also.

    What is needed is a full on Scottish Media operation to hasten the process that makes it easy for activists to share content that’s easy to consume. The UK column has done amazing work and is getting international recognition now. I think a Scottish operation of a similar type would be outstanding and worth subscribing to.

    If Alex Salmond is going to stick around then all Scotland needs is a first class media outlet to get the facts out and the winning will really begin to happen. WOS has obviously done a massive amount of work in the past years but I cannot think of a better journalist to make such a thing a reality.

  86. Ottomanboi

    Read the Churchill Factor by Boris Johnson. All his perceptions of Englishness and Britishness are there.
    He will fight. A massive constitutional fight is looming.
    Should be Fun….

  87. T.roz

    The Alba and Anglo party, pushing for an end to the union. Vote for independence uk wide?

  88. Effigy

    Wings needs a fund raiser to support the Rev and give him
    something closer to a salary he deserves.

    Next, Alba needs members paying a monthly subscription and when Alba can
    show we have more members than the Greens or the Libs we then need to ask
    the broadcaster to explain why we don’t have equal presentation.

    Remember that Alba had 2 MPs in Westminster.
    The Greens don’t.

    We need another match of 100,000 through Glasgow again the reason being Indy Ref 2.
    and for pity sake pay an independent adjudicator to count them and save the BBC and Police from lying.

  89. akenaton

    SNP 1 Alba 2 was a stupid idea, another miscalculation.

    Alex has to shoulder most of the blame for this disaster which has given Mrs Murrell exactly what she wanted.

    She may be a warped character without any obvious redeeming features, but she is without doubt a politician to be reckoned with.
    MOIRA GIRVAN wraps the whole debacle up nicely, this election was not about Independence it was about Nicola in the same way as the English election was about Boris, there are many similarities just a different method of presentation.

    Given the demographic in Scotland, it is doubtful if we will ever achieve Independence and Sturgeon knows that oh so well, what we have leading our country are a couple of sharks and a shoal of minnows afraid that they are about to be eaten.

    What we need to do now is put Indy aside and get some real people to sort out the politicians, clean up our act, change direction socially, educate the population.
    It’s too late for me and many on these pages but there are some young folks who fill me with hope…..unfortunately or perhaps inevitably they mostly hold Unionist views.

  90. Meg merrilees

    Auld Jock

    A measure of Alex Salmond’s experience and tactics was his proposal that on day one of the new parliament ALBA table a motion to begin negotiations with WM on Indy for Scotland.
    He knows how Boris will react and was already there.

    Nicola is an amateur by comparison.

    Where do we go from here – onwards and upwards but it will be a bit like climbing Everest in ‘guppies’

    The Bruce was excommunicated for apparent murder and had to slowly win back the confidence of the whole of Scotland – if he can do it, so can we.
    We just have to be thrawn.

  91. Luigi

    I guess our fantastic resident artist is away playing golf today. 🙂 TBH it would have been a blood miracle if ALBA did make a breakthrough so quickly. This is not a cup final folks it’s a war of attrition. The struggle continues. Some of us will never give up. ALBA struggled to make a breakthrough for a number of reasons: BBC blank out, lack of time, lock down restrictions, some independence supporters genuinely not ready to force the issue, attacks on Salmond etc etc etc. I could go on and on. Just too many hurdles. Those of us that gave ALBA a try can hold our heads high. No regrets whatsoever. This ain’t over yet. Heck Round 2 is just beginning. I sincerely hope ALBA and Salmond stay in the fight. Scotland needs them.

  92. Mia

    “Do me a favour and just fuck off with your bullshit”


    “No amount of representatives at Westminster will bring us nearer indy”
    Says who? If you keep sending faux pro indy representatives like Wishart, Blackford, Blackman or Smith, of course not. We need to send real pro indy ones. Alba ones.

    “THIS, folks, is why we’re fucked”
    No. We are fucked because we have a political fraud in control of our government and main pro indy party that is colluding with the British state to derail independence and to block any pro indy party that threats her monopoly of power.

    “Bullshitters spouting shit despite all the evidence”
    Where is the evidence that proves this election has not been rigged?
    Do you seriously expect me to believe that a few thousands of labour and libdem voters understood in a matter of days how d’hond works with just a leaflet with Ruth davidson’s face on it and voted tory to keep ALBA out but hundreds of thousands of SNP voters are so thick that did not?
    Do you seriously expect me to believe that staunch yes areas gave ALBA less than 1000 votes?
    Do you seriously expect me to believe that after throwing the kitchen sink and the reputation of the COPFS, the Sgov, the civil service and the justice System in Scotland down the toilet to stop Mr Salmond getting into Holyrood they would not attempt to rig the result as the last damage limitation exercise to stop him?

    Give me a break.

    “this screwball thinks sending another snp majority to Westminster is going to get us a vote on indy?”
    I am not sure who you are referring when you talk about “screwball” but THIS particular screwball does not want a majority of useless SNP MPs who have already wasted 5 fckng years of our time and acted as the praetorian guard of an embarrassingly corrupt leader. THIS screwball wants a majority of ALBA SNP MPs in 2024. The SNP ones can get tae fck.

    “Please don’t all laugh at once folks”
    I am not laughing.

    “This will be the same sort of person who worries that the BritNat media may portray anything that indy supporters do in a negative light”

    It has been years since any of the propaganda mouthpieces of the state, otherwise known as broadcasters, have been watched in my TV. I don’t even bother for what the BritNat media says anymore. As a matter of fact, I can even be arsed to read it never mind paying for it. I have recently terminated my National subscription because of their transformation into Nicola Sturgeon’s and anti Salmond propaganda outlet.

    “Needs a serious wake-up call”
    The rigging of this election and the absolutely appalling way the powers that be have blocked Mr Salmond of coming back to Holyrood is for me THE wake up call. Now I finally realise democracy is a word without meaning in Scotland.

    “‘Mia’ = Pension Pete?”
    Tell Eddie to change the batteries, your chip and give you a new script. The ones you currently have appear to be seriously malfunctioning.

    “By all means, you carry right on playing Westminster’s game”
    Isn’t that exactly what you are doing just now by somewhat attempting us to ditch already what is the next big opportunity that we have right in front of our noses?

    “and you will be here barking at the moon 20, 30, 40 years from now”
    And where will you be then, watching from the moon aka pastures new? If you plan to be in the moon in 4 years time rather than in Scotland, then you will not be voting in the 2024 elections for Scotland’s representatives, so what right do you have to command what we should or should not do?

    “And if ALBA decide to join in the Westminster farce i’m one vote they’ll not be getting”
    I don’t think that will make much of a difference for the powers that be when they remove the lot of ALBA votes to ensure the status quo remains.

    “They said it themselves, we only need a Holyrood supermajority”
    Yes, but Sturgeon has deliberately denied us that by refusing to work with ALBA and fooling their voters into wasting their regional vote by casting it for SNP (that if you believe the election was not rigged). When circumstances change, you don’t do what Sturgeon is doing: repeating the same strategy of crashing yourself against a reinforced concrete wall hoping that next time you either crash a few less bones or in the ideal scenario, the wall will simply not be there anymore because somebody, that not yourself, has removed it. Looking at 2024 as the next ALBA target is adapting to the change of circumstances and moving forward.

    “We don’t need London, Edinburgh is good enough”
    Indeed, and that is why we should not waste ANY opportunity. 2024 is our next opportunity and we should grab it with both hands. From now on, every single election should be a vote for independence. Keep the British state and its useful idiots constantly having to intervene to maintain the status quo. The interventions will become more and more obvious as the time goes. Sooner or later they will make a mistake.

  93. Willie

    Too right Breeks the first thing SNP voters are now going to learn is how they urinated a supermajority up against the wall.

    And the second thing is who encouraged them to do so.

    Nicola Sturgeon deliberately reinforced an SNP 1 and 2 strategy whilst at the same time mounting attack after attack on Alba and its leader. And now with around a million wasted SNP list votes securing either one or nine seats, our divided parliament with its minority SNP government is going to get treated exactly as it has been treated these last five years.

    Westminster will wipe its arse with Hollyrood and already Johnson is saying that the independence demands for a referendum can just jog on ….it isn’t happening.

    Salmond was right when he said Johnson would have difficulty opposing a sovereign majority mandated Scottish parliament. And Sturgeon knew that.

    So why did she oppose Alba and the election of MSPs who hereto some six weeks before had been elected SNP MPs and councillors. Sturgeon has sold us out, and we are now going to see exactly how.

  94. Luigi

    I also hope Rev Campbell stays in the fight also. I don’t always agree with him but he says things that need saying and he has a huge WoS audience.

  95. wullie

    Oh dear. Another five years of having our resources looted.

  96. Dan

    Meg merrilees says: at 11:51 am

    Most ALBA voters I know were NOT voting SNP 1 because they couldn’t bring themselves to and I’m sure that wasn’t just the case in Stirling.

    So who did they vote for with their constituency votes then?
    Most Alba voters didn’t appear to spoil their constituency ballots or we’d be seeing far higher numbers of spoiled constituency ballots.
    Not voting SNP in a few key constituencies was valid as it may have removed particularly odious individuals without massive divisor implications.
    Not voting SNP across the board would however be a far riskier strategy.
    Obviously personal matters of conscience kick in, but the bottom line is there simply weren’t enough folk prepared or even aware of voting for Alba with their Regional List vote.

  97. Dan

    Test Post, as my response to Meg is held in moderation.

  98. Luigi

    IMO the most important thing right now is for Alba to continue. A solid Yes base has been created. Let’s lick our wounds and build on it. This ain’t over by a long shot. Once lockdown eases, marches restart RG en the real campaigning begins. If you want something badly enough you will be prepared to take all the knocks and setbacks and keep fighting. For as long as 100 ALBA supporters remain. 🙂 I know today feels disappointing but compared to the sadness of 2014 this is nothing. A minor set back. We will fight on, just as we did in 2014.

  99. Baxter1967

    More from Kalhid Mahmood, recently resigned Labour Defence spokesperson. For “London – based bourgeoisie” read Edinburgh SNP. Indistinguishable.

    In the past decade, Labour has lost touch with ordinary British people,” he said. “A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party. They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday.

    “The loudest voices in the Labour movement over the past year in particular have focused more on pulling down Churchill’s statue than they have on helping people pull themselves up in the world. No wonder it is doing better among rich urban liberals and young university graduates than it is amongst the most important part of its traditional electoral coalition, the working class.”

  100. Bartleby64

    …”So why did she oppose Alba and the election of MSPs who hereto some six weeks before had been elected SNP MPs and councillors. Sturgeon has sold us out, and we are now going to see exactly how.”
    All true. She did. The question should be “Why?”. Myriad reasons suggest themselves; she hates AS, why? Because he shows her up seems the most likely explanation. She doesn’t actually want Independence? Quite possible, she is far to comfortable in her castle of mediocrity, warming her tootsies in the Slippers of Gravy Train. The crowning ‘glory’ being the great SNP 1 & 2 lie. Why that? I have a very simple explanation. She is one giant, shrieking ego. It’s all for Nicola; “look, look, another million people love me. ME ME ME!”
    You have to get rid of her. Without her you can move mountains. With her you are stuck in the foothills.

  101. Luigi

    IMO quite a few indy supporters (let’s call em soft Yessers) were aware of Alba but weren’t comfortable with a super majority. Because of Brexit n Civd they are a bit feart. They don’t want to force the issue. “Now is not the time” is not the sole reserve of the yoons ye know. They do want indy just not yet. People have to travel at their own pace. Let’s be thankful they still want indy – eventually. 🙂

  102. Confused


    (unionists voting tactically … willie rennie happy … etc)

    it’s not wrong when we do it

  103. Mia

    “Alex has to shoulder most of the blame for this disaster which has given Mrs Murrell exactly what she wanted”

    I have asked repeatedly here what exactly would have changed if ALBA supporters had not voted SNP1. But from those of you that keep peddling the same nonsense of blaming the result on the SNP1 Alba2 strategy no answer is forthcoming.
    Why not?
    Because your reasoning is totally flawed.

    Take Dundee for example. It is a yes city, where you would expect lots of Alba votes. Now compare the difference between the votes the SNP got in the constituency and the runner up with the votes that Alba got. If we are to believe less than 1000 people cast their regional vote for Alba (which I don’t), then those 1000 people not casting their vote for the SNP in the constituency would have not made an iota of a difference.

    Now look at Glasgow Southside. Nicola Sturgeon has a majority of over 9,000 votes over Sarwar. Now look at the votes Alba got: not even 700. Again, if you believe those are the only voters that cast their vote for Alba (which I don’t), please tell me how even if the 700 had refused to cast their vote for the SNP in Sturgeon’s constituency could they have changed the result.

    Once again, I am all ears.

    Or, as I suspect, your masters are so scared of the consequences of the yes movement realising of the power of using d’Hont for their advice that you have been tasked with burying it as soon as possible?

  104. Dan

    Just time to grab a quick cuppa.

    Join Alex Salmond on The PRISM at 12.30 (ish)

  105. Franky

    Could Wings be shut down by end of play today?

    Who could blame him?

    The deluded SNP 1 Voters went against everything the Rev asked of you.

    By Voting SNP 1 and possibly 2, you lot have not only voted the likes of Sturgeon back into office, but also her successor Robertson.

    Well done there.

    Now we know for sure that indyRef2 will be held sometime in the 2030s,,,at the earliest.

    Sturgeon will be too busy turning Scotland into a Freak show.

  106. Cenchos

    Maybe ALBA needs to get a game theory expert on board. They’ve just got the sucker’s payoff in an unwitting game of prisoner’s dilemma with the SNP. A lesson for the future, maybe.

    With no MSM coverage as yet, word of ALBA will have to move by osmosis through social media to word on the street before it starts entering the wider public consciousness, and it will take time to do so. We’re a tributary at the present. The trickles will run downhill and join up.

    Onwards and downstream.

  107. James Che.

    Stoker and Shocked, stop the brow beating and bullying, sooner or later others will be brave enough to join me in calling you out,, meanwhile,
    We respect you more when you use your intelligence in debates and discussion on stu’s Scottish independence site,
    Instead of criticising everyone. Why do you not put forward a your own way or route that you think could achieve a independent Scotland,
    As someone here has suggested, that England too may want independence.
    That may seem silly to those here at first, but I can assure you there are people in England feeling the same way as people in Scotland, and so toin Ireland and in Wales,
    What do you suggest to all those people across Britain that feel the same as us ? do you think we can all work together.?
    Do you think each country should stay with their own method?
    Do you Have any theories on how to gain independence, not looking backwards but forward planning.?
    Did you ever realise that parts of England want to leave England before today?

  108. Robert Hughes

    Maybe it’s time to abandon the Party Political/Holyrood route completely and seek a genuine grassroots movement .

    No leader , no fckn ” personalities ” , no top-down dispensing of cunning plans : an organic , ” Anarachic ” ( though more along the lines of Lao Tzu than Krapotkin ) well-informed , utterly committed movement with the patient capacity of water to wear down the hardest material , circumvent any obstacle to reach it’s end , the Yin to compliment the Yang of our inherent Scottish resilience , our Scottish Steel.

    Whatever . We need fresh thinking and approaches , the old ones lead only to the dismal results we see now .

  109. Sharny Dubs

    Ald Jock@11:40

    The day the bbc start supporting us is they day we know we are in trouble.

    What’s so bad about being underground. Mibbie that’s what we need to develop, a network that does not rely on any “institution”

    Time to get our thinking caps on.

    Soar Alba

  110. Sharny Dubs

    Dan her link didnae work

  111. Sharny Dubs

    Sorry yer link rolls eyes

  112. McDuff

    “You lot”
    A wee troll throwing insults and only a unionist would suggest wings might shut down. Wishful thinking.

  113. McDuff

    “You lot”
    A wee troll throwing insults and only a unionist would suggest wings might shut down. Wishful thinking.

  114. Dan

    Various results coming through now on this feed.

  115. Papko

    @Mia 839
    “The only way to prove we have been cheated is by creating something like an unofficial registry of alba voters per region and then compare those numbers with the ones they are feeding us.”

    How can you prove that? People say they voted Alba after the event and their vote was not counted or binned?

    Seems a very ham-fisted type of voter fraud.

    So far the turnout is showing at 60% and the Pro-Indy parties are on 47% of that.
    Unionists parties on 53%.
    So if it is a plebiscitary election it will put the matter to bed for another 5 years.

  116. Franky

    James Che

    Nobody gives a Fuck about england.

    To busy trying to defeat that Bastard Sturgeon to bother about anything as irrelevant as england.

  117. Ottomanboi

    Those «scientists» again.
    Guys my age and younger have had enough of CovidFascism.
    «vas t’enculer!»

  118. Daisy Walker

    It’s raining… and its cold. My dog is welding herself to the sofa so she won’t have to go for a walk (she’s very good that way).

    Where stands the SNP now. In sweet victory?

    Hmmm – they struggled to get members out to campaign for them.

    They are broke and likely broker now (specially when the bus bill comes in… just when you’ve paid for one bus, another one comes along).

    They have lost a great many core members (I know, I’ve met them with Alba), a huge amount of local knowledge and financial contributions.

    Any rewards coming in from Westminster – are not going in the coffers, but being sneezed away, with no minutes or records kept.

    And a big chunk of their remaining genuine Yes supporters – have just done the dirty on fello Yessers.

    The big question now – and it’s important for us – is will they do like the btl commentors over on WGD – and double/triple down on that shittyness?

    Or will they see the bigger picture and put country and Indy first. (I’m going to guess here and say about half will come over – if we respond appropriately in the next few weeks).

    The SNP now have a problem – having portrayed Alba as the potential ‘vote spitters’ – the voting results have disproved that.

    They are going to want to keep Alba as the whipping boy – but in reality, just now, Alba is not long enough on the public conscious for them to make a meal of it.

    And that leaves them with their own promises for Indyref 2.

    Alba needs to remain in existence.

    It also needs to decide, what will it achieve with the local council elections (best will in the world – very little) – as offset by that presence gifting the SNP the chance to pin the worlds ills on them as the whipping boy.

    And it needs to campaign like billyoh to win the next GE – and here’s the difficult bit, it has to do it below the radar, so that the Brit nats underestimate.

  119. Andy Ellis

    @akenaton 11.59am

    Your hot-takes are as likely to be as long lived as your namesake’s new order was in ancient Egypt. The young in Scotland are overwhelmingly pro-independence. From a purely age related stand point, independence is therefore inevitable: it’s simply a matter of demographics, not that it helps older voters of course or those who want indy in the short to medium term.

  120. the friendly sassenach

    @Baxter 1967
    Khalid Mahmood is being dishonest when he talks of a London bourgeoise.
    He has clearly never met the Labour voting ‘bourgeoisie’ of Tottenham, Edmonton, Newham, Deptford, Brixton and so on.
    The sooner London becomes a city state and we rid of whnging provincials the better.

  121. Daisy Walker

    Luigi says:
    8 May, 2021 at 12:21 pm

    IMO quite a few indy supporters (let’s call em soft Yessers) were aware of Alba but weren’t comfortable with a super majority. Because of Brexit n Civd they are a bit feart. They don’t want to force the issue. “Now is not the time” is not the sole reserve of the yoons ye know. They do want indy just not yet. People have to travel at their own pace. Let’s be thankful they still want indy – eventually.

    A good point Luigi. Sadly Scotland is nearly out of time, certainly her devolved parliament is, as are our freedom of speech rights. Deeply wicked that the SNP have encouraged them to sleepwalk into it.

  122. ahundredthidiot

    I do think there is something in an ‘ALBA Day’.

    Name a date and each town has all Alba voters attend in person.

    Do a head count.

  123. Franky

    McDuff. 12.36pm

    Just for you numbnut.

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    5 May, 2021 at 6:15 pm

    ” BUT in spite of your out of this world statistics for readership for WoS, dontcha think you should give scottish politics a rest for the next ten years (cos nothing will happen anyway) and do something more rewarding and creative instead? I only say this because that’s where i am heading, I (like many others) is done wae it.”

    Barring a miracle this weekend, that’s my plan.

  124. Franky

    Ok McDuff?

    With clowns like you infesting his website, who could blame the Rev for finishing up?

  125. Robert Hughes

    oops – ” Anarchic ” !

  126. ahundredthidiot


    Desantis has Florida follow the science. Vax programme has protected the vulnerable.

    No facemasks, no mitigation. Businesses who enforce it can now be prosecuted. Individuals can choose to wear a muzzle or not.

    California – strict lockdowns. Their covid numbers are no different to Florida.

  127. David A.

    They should be telling people to stop being so fat as most people who get sick from these things are fat and the obesity problem is costing the NHS billions and more in wider society, as well as sending so many into early graves or generally poorer quality of lives. If they put even a drop’s worth of the effort they have in this propaganda to pressure people into eating right and *gasp* exercising then health would improve massively across the West and a much more significant long term improvement would be seen as a return on the investment.

    We’re eventually going to hit a point where half or more of people will be obese in the UK. Absolutely shocking state of health and people now and just like the woke tranny stuff, they try to pretend this wave of illness is something to be proud of and celebrate or normalise.

    Of course as a government or leader you don’t get to have your totalitarian dictaorship power grab fantasies play out by telling people to be fitter like you can with lockdowns and corporations can’t make money from people eating less and going for a walk like they can with the drugs and treatments for the illnesses that come from obesity or giving mass treatments to people who don’t even need them.

    People always wonder how people often didn’t see a dictator disaster coming until it was too late and didn’t do anything to stop it or nip it in the bud. Well we’re going to see people fifty years from now ask the same question of the people alive today.

  128. Sharny Dubs

    Baxter 1967@12:20

    Labour do not love or support the poor, they just hate the rich.

    George Orwell The road to Wigan pier

  129. Pixywine

    Paulaj. If you’re not interested in spending more than two minutes on a program you’re clearly not interested in the bigger political picture. It’s members of the public like yourself who are paving the road for the surveillance Security State vaccine passports. Thanks for nothing

  130. Pixywine

    Petty little prejudices stop many people from listening to the other sides argument. We are where we are for that reason

  131. David A.

    There’s sadly something overlooked too with the Project Fear over the lockdowns and such and that is that the leaders can fill people’s head to the brim with crazy levels of fear and portray themselves as saviours and protectors in the process. People look to them as mummy and daddy figures or saints to save them from the evil hyped up. It’s a classic tactic of politicians to find something to get people scared of and hate and claim to be a special savior and bob’s your uncle you get votes.

    I’m sure this mummy/daddy protector figure from the evil they made you scared of got a lot of votes for the incumbents of Westminster and Hollyrood.

  132. Franky

    The Rev tried and failed to convince enough Scots to bring down Sturgeon.

    Even his own readership went against everything he suggested, namely, don’t vote for the SNP in the Constituency Vote.

    You lot totally ignored him

    So don’t start fuckin greetin if the Rev decides to forge a new career out with Scottish Politics.

    Scotland is fucked, due to the majority voting to keep a corrpt leader and her Party in government.

    Awe Ra best big man.

  133. James Che.

    Try if you can? Imagine a disabled person trying to walk and move around, and he/she ends up crawling along the kerb amongst the dirt and animal pish and dog excretement, because they had your attitude, Fock the wheel chair, am more concerned about my disability..DOH.
    You thinking is central only to yourself.
    Suppose Ireland decided to join up their country, and became independent before Scotland. How would Scotland feel, we already feel it when they had different treatment to us during Brexit.
    We are an island as Britain , but no man is an island, the independence grassroots movement is not one man.
    I am not suggesting we fight everyone else’s fight for one moment like sturgeon did, but keeping an eye on what others are trying in the way of becoming independent from London gives us ideas and inspiration. Already I see new ideas growing, new ways to get around the system, not insular thinking,
    So how about you genuinely contributing to Scotland’s independence in a more meaningful way, come on you can manage it,

  134. James Che.

    Opps Spell checker amended your name.

  135. Shocked

    @james che

    I’ve already said numerous times what needs to be done. So here it is again.

    1. Take some honesty pills, recognise that the support for independence isn’t there because Nicola Sturgeon has turned the New SNP into a personality cult where independence supporters now rank behind Sturgeon cultists and the gender woke fanatics. Sturgeon has done nothing to advance independence and everything to advance herself and her grip on power. A large percentage of New SNP voters are not independence supporters and regarding their gender woke allies the Greens, the majority of their supporters do not support independence.

    2. The sturgeonites need slung out the party, the New SNP leadership exterminated and the old SNP rebuilt from the ground up. If that process can’t be underway by the end of the year it’s time to write the New SNP off.

    3. If Alba are to get anywhere they need to go after the New SNP, the New SNP want nothing to do with them and the increasingly large gender woke wing of the New SNP will never accept Alba. Alba needs to usurp the New SNP as the premier Independence Party in Scotland. Alex Salmond needs to understand where he is and show the world all the dirt and filth he has on sturgeon and the sooner the better. She needs gone ASAP to give time to rebuild the movement. Salmond has been trying to ride two horses and it just doesn’t work in politics. If Salmond doesn’t finish Sturgeon he might as well pack it in as the relentless New SNP orchestrated media onslaught will hound him till the end of his days or until he decides to just go away. He is New SNP public enemy number 1

    4. Any talk of plebiscite elections or negotiating independence is utter fantasy. The numbers are not there and it’s quickest way to civil unrest and the partition of Scotland.

    I realise some folks won’t like to read this but is my view and I do not see any point in trying to polish the turd. Giving people false hope is nothing but telling lies. Every single person who reads this site knows the truth about Nicola Sturgeon and how any of them could even consider voting New SNP after the Rev spent months is forensic detail telling us what has happened is beyond me. Frankly if you are a wings reader and you voted New SNP you don’t deserve the vote, the sheep have the excuse they don’t know any better, none of you do.

    I warned of a New SNP / Green coalition and was attacked for it, I said Angus Robertson would get in as Bonnie Prince Bob was a dribbling imbecile who looks like he sleeps in a shop doorway and was attacked for it, I said I didn’t think Alba would break through and that Salmond got his tactics wrong and was attacked for it. Seems I’ve been right so far, some people just don’t like the truth.

  136. John Martini

    As one of the many people who have been silenced and banned by every so called leading light in the indy movement and the opposition I can safely say you are all as bad as each other.

    All of you are culpable. Look at the state of murray and salmond. Brought down in 2 minutes and left abandoned.

    Wings will surely go the same way if he hangs about.

    I wonder how long it will take our new woke lords to get rid of the useless idiots now that they have gained absolute power.

  137. Breeks

    Robert Hughes says:
    8 May, 2021 at 12:30 pm
    Maybe it’s time to abandon the Party Political/Holyrood route completely and seek a genuine grassroots movement …

    I hear that Robert… I’m unshakable in my belief that a Constitutional approach is long overdue. Scotland MUST stop paying lip service to Scottish Sovereignty while grovelling to the faux sovereignty of Westminster.

    Thing is however, if you could just freeze out Sturgeon’s “input”, coming as it does from a total lost cause / liability, the prospects for Scottish Independence have actually never looked better. Most of the components are in place. A stable half of the electorate backing Indy and ripe for a campaign, a List Party now exists which could have sealed the deal with a pro-Indy Supermajority, the world is shrunk by Brexit forced upon us, the media indoctrination on the wane,… it wouldn’t actually take very much to change the whole landscape and regain lost squandered momentum.

    The thing that needs changed is that fool of a woman Sturgeon. She is the puncture in our tyre and we’re just not going to get very far until she’s gone. Virtually all despondency can be traced back directly to her feckless stupidity.

    Put someone credible, (please God, anyone), in Sturgeon’s place, and in a few short weeks the Union would be in it’s death throes. – Although I don’t know whether that parallel reality makes things better or worse. So close, and yet, so far. Damn the woman.

    If you’re feeling grim, look at things from the Unionist perspective. There is considerable irony that buoyancy of their Union is being kept afloat by Nicola Sturgeon. What a bizarre paradox that Scotland’s enemies now rely on Sturgeon’s leadership more than we do.

  138. John Martini

    Craig Murray’s astonishing analysis of alba;s failure is stunning. Apparently you are all a bunch of transphobes.

    Craig is just a grifter. Any port in a storm fornthat old shark.

  139. Shocked

    @john martini

    Maybe if Craig had campaigned against the party that is about to jail him for telling the truth things would have been a bit different….

    I really cannot understand what is going on in that mans head.

  140. Pixywine

    Check out the Naomi Wolf interview on Delingpid on YouTube. Don’t be frivolous like Paulaj who only has the attention span of a Spaniel. Spend more than the two minutes she gave it. Listen to Naomis argument not your prejudices. I thought commenters on here would be mature enough to give an argument an alarm call, more than two minutes of their time. Shameful. Deeply depressing. Scotland give it up we have no chance with so many Independence supporters still buying into the hype from No 10 and Bute House.

  141. cirsium

    @ingwe, 10.09
    So the postal votes have and are being counted by IDox plc who’s partners in the enterprise are Fujitsu. The same Fujitsu whose dodgy Horizon software led to the wrongful conviction and jailing of hundreds of innocent sub-postmasters. Hmm, what could go wrong?

    Then add, first, a huge number of Electoral Roll registrations to the mix and secondly, no exit polls so that any discrepancies between the polling station votes and the postal votes are not shown up. This winning formula was first used in the Indyref.

    The next chance we have is the General Election. Given that exit polls are a key indicator that an election is legitimate and the count honest, I wonder what excuse will be given for no exit polls in Scotland.

    Rev- don’t go anywhere. The fight is just beginning and we will need your forensic, honest analysis.

  142. Sharon

    We should have taken pics of our ballots this time round. That might’ve caused queries re numbers…

  143. Lynn

    I think your completely correct Shocked !

  144. Tinto Chiel

    Joe @11.23: “Right now I believe some of the evil bastards who are turning our country to shit would be happier about WOS closing shop than they would about winning the election.”

    Sadly, this is absolutely true and precisely why this site is so important for the future of Scottish politics.

  145. Sharon

    No Exit Polls for Scotland is laughably dismissive and disrespectful to us.

  146. David A.

    The personality cult building behind our Dear Leader is deeply disturbing. I really, really don’t like personality cults in politics and I saw a lot of SNP make it all about her in their signs and language. It’s meant to be about independence more than just the party and now it’s not even about the party but one person? I don’t know where this will be heading in years to come.

    I saw that interview. Very interesting and a lot of things there to take on board. I’ve seen other examples that back up what they discuss there in the way we have these bubbles set up for the public and a lack of accountability. This is a time when people need to see it’s a masses vs the power holders situation, as illustrated by the quite different natures and background of those two coming together on this issue. There will never be a return to normal if people do not object in numbers and make it clear they won’t obey. There will always be a new excuse to hold on to the powers they have now or expand them. Lockdowns, freedom of association gone, freedom to gather gone, ways to persecute political thorns and have them isolated and ground down, etc.

    Unfortunately I don’t think many people now have the attention span and ability to follow this in our rapid fire jump cut addicted social media age which has conditioned them away from long form discussions and information sources. Just look at the studies showing that most people only read the headline and the last paragraph in articles, something that I think our host has lamented before and no wonder as someone who is both a professional writer and tries to clean up journalism in his own way.

  147. Robert Hughes

    Breeks @ 1.22 .

    It truly is the bitterest of ironies that , as you say , were it not for the utter fraudulence of the supposed leader of the Indy Movement ( at least in the public’s mind ) we would be in a most propitious position to claim our freedom , not ask , claim and take , our freedom .

  148. James Che.

    Shocked, I am smiling at you’re see through brow beating attempt.
    I am finding you funny in your transparency.
    You are funny, I am trying to take you serious, but it’s just not happening, sitting at keyboard trying to act serious to you but the family are asking what’s so funny that I am laughing while tippy tapping the keys.

  149. Andy Ellis

    I’ve never met Craig Murray, although I have exchanged emails about his (in my view) flawed take on how Scotland could achieve independence. In many ways I felt his recent troubles were largely of his own making. I’d also accept that he is being made an example of and treated more harshly than others who are much more culpable than he is with respect to the jigsaw identification of those who tried to frame Alex Salmond.

    However, given his analysis of Alba it has to be said: with friends like these we hardly need enemies. Perhaps it can be put down to the undoubted strain he must be under, but I’m increasingly of the opinion that his judgement on this issue, as in so many other issues, is just execrable.

    I’m certainly glad he never joined Alba, and will do everything I can as a founder member to ensure he is never admitted.

  150. Mark Boyle

    Craig Murray
    My own brief analysis of what went wrong for Alba.

    With very little mainstream media coverage, and that viciously hostile, we relied very heavily on social media.

    There, we alienated many people by apparent identification with an obsessive and irrational hatred of trans people.

    The vast majority of the population could not care a flying fk about the whole trans circus. They don’t hate them, they are just bored to bloody tears with the overelevation of its importance by terminally self-indulgent middle class cosmopolitans when there’s people bloody dying of homelessness or long term malnutrition in a supposed first world country.

    It’s called priorities, champ. It’s why Labour lost Hartlepool and a swathe of “safe” seats all over England yesterday. Or as Morrissey once sang back in the days he hadn’t lost it “It says nothing to me about my life.”

    Incidentally, here’s how much Alba raised on the GRA reforms issue during the campaign – absolute bloody zero. It dodged the issue entirely, afraid of scaring the very type of SNP supporters it had lost anyway (ie. young and woke), and left it to the irrelevant bible bashing cranks of the Family Party (the NF for the “Nice”) to heavy lift it – with inevitable results.

    If you think the vast majority of the population were “alienated” by a topic you didn’t even address, you are going to be in for a big bloody shock when the backlash from the GRA reforms kick in – or did the hullaballoo over the mere “degendering” of toilets in Edinburgh on polling day just pass you by?

    The proles seldom pay attention to politics until things hit them full square in the face, but when they do and they don’t like it, their wrath is unbridled. If you haven’t learned that one since 2016, you’re part of the overall problem rather than giving solutions.

  151. Pixywine

    Hundredth idiot. Florida was never locked down and they are NOT mandating vaccines. Mandatory health passports are the key to the new Security State. I know you think I’m crazy so watch and see the Iron Curtain of Globalist Fascism being closed around us. Can I interest you in a Naomi Wolf interview on James Delingpoles YouTube channel? I know he’s a Tory but political differences need to be put aside in order to confront a greater Evil. By the way are you suspicious at all of Bill Gates bribing everyone, the Guardian. Ipsos Mori- who helpfully provide him with happy numbers–BBC Imperial College London, Who.
    As always “Follow the money”.

  152. Pixywine

    Frankly. Go fucking fuck yourself you fucked up fucking fuck head. What a pain the brain you are. Mongo.

  153. Pixywine

    David A ” Problem reaction solution” Rules for Radicals Saul Ali sky I believe.

  154. Shocked

    @james che

    As one of the worst examples of the sturgeonite fox in the Alba henhouse I wouldn’t expect you to be happy about what I’ve said. It’s the truth, deal with it.

    And in addition it’s thanks to people like you that the independence movement will not be fit to even look at another referendum until after the next election, you achieved your aim; lie, deflect, cheat and lie again to make sure Nicola Sturgeon is returned to power and escapes justice. Pretend freedom is just over the next hill as long as we stick with Queen Nicola. Another 7 years of delay achieved a with another 5 to achieve now. I dare say your next task will be help with the transfer of power to the odious creep Robertson.

  155. Mac

    I like Craig Murray and think he is a very brave man but I do find myself wondering at times at his judgement.

    That interview or podcast he made where he said he had personally talked to woman F (if it is not F it was the sleepy cuddle one), and he seemed to buy her account hook line and sinker.

    I do wonder if he believes who has spoken to last at times.

  156. Pixywine

    Franky. My last comment aimes at you asshole.

  157. Wally Jumblatt

    AS has a dilemma next time around.
    Does he fight for every individual seat, or just stick to the list.ifche fights on the individual constituencies, he splits the Indy vote -and the yoons have now all learned how to do tactical voting- or does he risk focusing on the list vote, and no publicity again.
    He needs to get a presence on the floor in Holyrood.²

  158. Andy Ellis

    I can’t be the only one in here thinking that today of all days given the election results, there are more important issues to discuss and that chimps like Pixywine and others throwing their shit at each other should take their abuse elsewhere.

    You are – in your own ways – as irritating as that oxygen thief Cameron Brodie used to be in here. Doubtless Rev Stu has more important things to do, but jeez, guys…give it a rest and go and pollute your own blogs, huh?

  159. David Caledonia

    When a tory or labour voter votes for their opponents to try to get rid of the SNP candidate that’s when you see the unionist principles in action.
    I wonder how many people go to foodbanks and still vote for the people that are responsible for the need for them.
    I know of a lot of young people who never voted at all, and I truly cannot blame them for their apathy, we do not live in a country that has any kind of democratic process.
    My only vote in future will be for Alba or a similar non unionist party if Alba disappears for some reason.
    I do hope Alex Salmond stays and builds Alba into something we can all have hope in, and now I would like to see him go after the people who tried and lied to frame him, I am sure there are a lot of honest journalists and media outlets that would love to get the real truth out to the general public.
    Its time to stop pussyfooting around with these people, they have no principles and do not deserve any kind of respect from any decent person who values truth and honesty.
    I wonder if Galloway will be heading down the road again. after maybe a nice little holiday in Portugal where he has a house, maybe he should build himself a trojan horse, or do us all a favour and get on his bike and not interfere in a country that he thinks must be ruled from london as its too wee tae look efter itsel………. what a scunner that man is

  160. stonefree

    @ Willie at 9:34 am

    I believe you’re correct regarding Sturgeon and the woke offensive , and Honestly I’m glad Baillie won as oppose to the Toni fellow last time I made a comment about him (here) someone said “what a wonderful human being he was”
    There was earlier a comment about the SNP winner in Ayr, who was she?
    Well she was much the same, a “favoured daughter” who was up for at least two seats maybe as much as four,Much the same crap “bringing a wealth of lifetime experience” , That was used by a future candidate in the past, who’ll be up for the first by-election
    The “favoured daughter” was up for the questionable Gibson seat

  161. Effigy

    What a diabolical waste of promoting SNP 1 & 2.
    Nicola pushed Tory and Labour into seats Alba
    could have landed with their backing.

    Disgraceful Nicola before Independence!

  162. akenaton

    Andy….. The intelligent young people that i have conversed with don’t seem to care very much about the social nightmare being created by Sturgeon and the Greens and I suppose that is to be expected as I cast my mind back to the sixties and the “New World Order” which we thought we were building…..but more and more are questioning the economic case for Independence and especially the madness of re-joining the EU when the UK is building trade with the rest of the developing world.
    Personally I would like to see every country Independent and would be prepared to sacrifice some of my financial perks to see it……but I don’t think these young people see it my way.

  163. Gone right handed

    Contact contact contact

    Remember that well.

    I’m warming to the idea of indyref2 in three months time. Westminster sets out it’s stall-if Scotland votes to become independent then it’s a clean break-Scotland pays for itself from day one. Pensions, benefits. Nothing from UK. UK military assets kept on as sovereign bases but the Scots who work there to be made redundant as skilled workers can be brought in to replace them.

    And the border counties that vote Tory to be partitioned and become ‘Southern Scotland’ and still be part of the UK.

    Who’d vote for that?

  164. Pixywine

    Andy Ellis. Thank you very much for your support. It’s good to see you’re on the ball. Now. What’s the plan for Independence going forward?

  165. Al-Stuart

    Jame Che at 11.39,

    Well said my friend.

    That is very brave of you.

    It has been a relief to be able to read Wings BTL section now that the 77th have retired for their holidays at Colchester Barracks Army Fun Factory Privates On Parade after the double-time, double-shift their 77th Trolls have been putting in.

    Even the resident Gang-Rape-Advocate and serial bully seems to have vanished. The creep with more fake sock-puppet IDs than Imelda Marcos had shoes. Creepy Sex-pest Troll aka….

    Andy, (three commas)
    Patrick Jones
    Gordon, (theee commas)
    Eugene Henderson (three commas)
    Market Force (in a comma)
    Stainless Steel


    “Frankly,,,” (three commas)

    This Troll should learn grammar, syntax and spelling. Possibly look up the correct use of an ellipsis. It’s thee dots Frankly, not three commas.

    Though the utter delusional nature of you registering so many FAKE NAMES in your effort to fool as many people to enter into a dialogue with you is a joke.

    Wingers, the new fake ID name “Frankly” is an abusive Troll. Save your time, ignore all of his IDs. Source of the latest three comma giveaway from Secret Squirrell agent 002.5 Troll…

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