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Wings Over Scotland

The Day Nothing Changed

Posted on May 08, 2021 by

Our sincerest congratulations go to The National on what by our count is their 250th “INDY IS COMING SOON!” front page. A real landmark.

Any readers pointing out that there was a “pro-indy majority and mandate for indyref2” after the 2016 Holyrood election, and yet here we are five years later without indyref2 having actually happened even though the Parliament voted for it twice, can only be MI5 Unionist plants and must of course be shunned and vilified and ideally put in prison if at all possible.

We’re so excited we’re already looking forward to the May 2026 version.

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206 to “The Day Nothing Changed”

  1. Shirley Davidson says:

    As my old granny used to say “Whoopty de fucking doo!”

  2. Sharny Dubs says:

    Right on the money as usual.

    Today with a little luck many will see what you have been telling them for years.

    Please don’t stop.

  3. Simone says:

    I feel so flat.
    After 2014 I told my daughter that she would be old enough get to vote by the next Independence Referendum, I’m now wondering if I will live long enough to…

  4. Robert Graham says:

    Same Shite different Day

    NO progress since 2014

    Aye well done Princess Nicola

  5. Heaver says:

    How to get control of the mass-media. That is the problem.

  6. Graham A Fordyce says:

    Forgive them Lord for they not what they do.

  7. Confused says:

    re : SNP and a name change – why not


    – simple, and the new party anthem


    (coz they’ve been wanking us about since 2015)

  8. crisiscult says:

    Hang in there mate. I think you’re needed more than ever over the next wee period. I’m also hoping Alba carry on – clearly trying to get a message out to voters in 6 weeks with street and door-to-door activism probably only starting 2 or 3 weeks ago was, on reflection, crazy. As a Dundee United supporter, I’m used to clinging on in the face of depression. I won’t stop fighting.

  9. M_Alc says:

    “I’ve heard it!”
    Aye, but…
    “I said, I’ve heard it!”
    But this time…
    “Please don’t make me set you on fire”
    I promise this time…
    “Sigh” *strikes match*

    Tbf, The National does make for giid fuel to start my coals for the BBQ.

  10. McLaurin says:

    That’s me, I’m out of Scottish politics now.

    Back to the hills….

  11. JSC says:

    Groundhog Day for us, and another 5 years of wages for the careerists, now with added Angus

  12. Geoff Huijer says:

    We’re living in Neverland.

  13. Milady says:

    On Indy I’m pretty much ‘just wake me up when Sturgeon has gone’. Until then we women look to have a more pressing fight on our hands that will keep us occupied. We need to fight for science and facts, our very right to be women. I’m utterly depressed today.

  14. John Moss says:

    Back on track for when?

  15. Mr Bonobo says:

    Looking set for most tedious election since 2003.

    You have to hand it to all parties that after five years of continuous scandals, dashed hopes, outrageous shenanigans, economic devastation and unprecedented clampdowns on civil liberties, that they have managed to portray it all as nothing to get worked up about, and pin all the alternative parties as the dangerous extremists.

  16. Dave R says:

    Good that you reminded us of those two SP votes. Slovakia did similar and became independent! But of course Britain gerrymandered our parliament to stop that( or did it….)

    Sad that outlook today is not good for Alba but maybe it can develop as a rival to the SNP.

  17. Patsy Millar says:

    I think the National has a regular delivery of these from ‘rent-a-cover’.

  18. Frank Gillougley says:

    Dear Scotland,

    I’ve had enough of this. I really don’t wanna listen to another grinding 10 hegemonic years of cliched argumentative attrition just to arrive back at the beginning again and then die.

    Luckily enough, I for one, am for the off to live and work elsewhere in Europe. Our boat is booked. Being a recluse, no one will notice I’ve gone and don’t worry, I’ll close the door on my way out.

    But I will leave you with this last thought, which was written two years before 2014. As you will see, NOT ONE IOTA has changed and so there really is no reason that it ever will do so

    SHIBBOLETH (concerning the Scottish flag)

    This national symbol of ours illustrates quite handsomely,
    a bestial instrument of torture – of the crucifying kind.
    So, while we’re at it, why not a diagram
    of a ladder rack, a Judas chair, or even a garotte?

    But, never fear, come the day of our glorious Republic,
    this psycho-sexual and synergous motif will be, no doubt,
    re-conceived, re-devised, re-configured and re-organised
    by a committee of post-structuralist toalies
    to reflect the national culture and consciousness
    or some such other dumbfuck PR.

    Lissen up here you schmucks! And get it right up yeas!
    Here’s what it wants to be:
    Instead of a cross, a big fat zero’s better by far, (though we’ll just keep
    the colours the same though – it’ll save us the wrangle).

    Thanks for the ride, Stu & WoS.
    You kept me going these last 10 or so years.
    It really was something.

  19. JSC says:

    As the chosen one has been parachuted into Edinburgh Central and seems to have landed on 2 feet…if Nicola quits we have the real prospect of this upstanding citizen as FM.

    I’m starting to think I’d prefer Nicola to last the 5 years

    It’s like me choosing if I want kicked in the face or the nuts

  20. Michael B says:

    Worth remembering…

    1. The Holyrood electoral system was chosen deliberately to prevent a clear majority for a single party. Yes, it failed to do so on one occasion but no-one would bet on that happening again any time soon. The Unionist line that appears to be emerging is that the SNP by itself needs a clear majority of Holyrood seats, or over 50% of the votes, to justify indyref2. Impossible, ridiculous conditions. Cameron organized the EU referendum based on 37% of the vote.

    2. You can’t vote tactically in a Yes/No referendum.

  21. Sometimes I think we ur too fucken stupid tae run Scotland.

  22. SilverDarling says:

    ‘It’s the hope that kills you’.

    Oh well, we tried to tell them but I guess that me out now. If there is a referendum I’ll vote yes but I have no emotional investment in a Sturgeon led Scotland and I fear for my rights as a woman.

    Thanks to yourself, Rev, and to Alex Salmond and ALBA for galvanising an otherwise terrible election but you can’t fight the BBC especially with the SNP on their side too.

    It all just feels so futile and corrupt.

  23. James K-C says:

    Who ever thought they’d see the day that a potential SNP majority left you feeling like you’d been punched in the gut?

  24. Ian McCubbin says:

    Shame no actual Alba break through, and keep your messages coming Stu.
    This Parliament is SNP/Green no change in my opinion.

  25. Lothianlad says:

    Angus Robertson has the look of a man with something to hide.
    What’s the agenda?

  26. Lothianlad says:

    I’m sticking with Alba. It will grow in strength and numbers rapidly!

  27. Franky says:

    If only we could track down the absolute imbeciles who voted for her and her Party.

    Oh that’s right, the Wings SNP 1 Voters, who totally ignored everything the Rev posted about “Don’t vote SNP 1 in the Constituency Vote”.

    So don’t come on here after the event and tell us how much of a Bastard Nicola Sturgeon is.

    We already knew that and tried to educate you thick Bastards, but as you can see, the Rev failed and so did we.

    You lot went head first into that Voting booth knowing exactly what you were doing.

    Own it.

    And it’s not just you Voting SNP that caused this, it was the part you played in encouraging others to vote SNP 1.

  28. John Martini says:

    Old Craig Murray says you are all transphobes. Trying to save his own skin and up the donations no doubt.

    The dream died in 2014.

  29. Baxter says:

    Ian Mcubbin @1.30pm.
    Oh there will be change all right, anyone not on message better start worrying about what they say and do.

  30. Ottomanboi says:

    Not exactly a picture of glowing health….but when the masks are finally off who will prove the fitter?
    Gym bunnies? Not quite. But neither is the bloated and smug opposition.
    No time for lamentation and crying in your whisky.
    Big Boris is watching us.

  31. Franky says:

    Does anybody honestly think the Rev is going to keep hitting his head off of the the Holyrood establishment’s brick wall for ANOTHER five years needs their own head looked at.

    “2026, Rinse and Repeat.”

    There, just wrote the SNPs 2026 Manifesto.

  32. Breeks says:

    “Plus fury as BBC cuts off Scottish Election coverage early…”

    Aye. Five weeks early.

    Propaganda by omission is still indoctrination.

  33. Marty says:

    It’s quite a feat to have an election where every voter loses – especially those who voted for the winners.

    Welcome to 5 more years of failure. I wonder if either of the new ferries will be in service by then. They’ll probably be getting retrofitted with gender neutral vending machines giving away period products for ‘women’ with willies.

  34. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Robertson currently dancing on a pin head around Independence.

    Under the current SNP leadership – it aint going to happen.

    If a General Election can be organised during a Pandemic – why not a referendum?

    Fewer parties – a straight Yes/No ballot – no distractions such as two ballot sheets and working-out the List vote. In comparison to Thursday’s election – a Referendum is a very easy thing to organise.

    So, why the call for a delay?

  35. Baxter1967 says:

    The simple reality check from the elections once again is that the Labour Party is not for the labourers and the SNP not for the nationalists. Both party hierarchies are indistinguishable in language, background and world outlook.

  36. David A. says:

    “No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.”

  37. Freya says:

    I do not understand the triumphalist cover on The National, what has been achieved at this stage? Absolutely nothing.

    Now is not the time to throw the towel. I know I won’t after seeing so many radical wokes elected. One of my friends always say the best way to fight against something is to do it from within.
    This is what I am planning to do; become a nuisance and invite myself to any event on GRA and ask questions about an schedule for indyref2 at every single opportunity and call them out when they give me an ambiguous answer.

    If more people did that, consistently and non-stop, they would have no excuse not to reply to questions live and letters sent.

    I do feel the need to move to Continental Europe as well and I have the house to do just that, but I don’t feel this is the time to give up at all, especially when I see so many teenagers & young people in their 20s eager to see an independent Scotland.

    They need the support of ”oldies” to achieve that. We cannot let them down.

  38. Heaven help the SNP canvasser that turns up at my door looking for support in the next Westminster election.

    I can just hear them now – “We need to send a message to Boris that we won’t tolerate this democratic outrage, etc, etc.”

    Imagine feeling like this after an SNP election win?

  39. ronmacdee says:

    Don’t be too disheartened. Separation may be closer than you imagine.
    My wife this morning reminded me of my remark in 2014 that it will be English not Scottish Nationalists who accomplish independence for Scotland as their scunner factor climbs.
    Getting there.

  40. Derick fae Yell says:

    1090 days until the General Election

  41. Dan says:

    Jim Fairlie elected in Perthshire South & Kinross-shire (Mid & Fife)

  42. Garrion says:

    Listen. Don’t blame the people. We’re the first of the British colonies, with the convenience of being next door.

    We’ve had literally centuries of physical and psychological indoctrination, including economic oppression.

    We’re not special, apart from the weirdness of our history and the great misfortune of our neighbours.

    Any country subjected to this much relentless implicit and explicit demeaning propaganda would be confused. If you want to keep fighting then fight, if you want to throw your hands up, do that, no shame to that. But don’t start blaming the people, that way lies the self loathing and the SWP.

  43. robbo says:

    Just like a wean sitting in the back seat on a car journey to somewhere.

    “Are we there yet dad?”

  44. James Che. says:

    We have to stir up the grassroots movement first and foremost before politicians like we did in 2014,
    Politicians and politics is what put the brakes on this,
    Not the people of Scotland.
    I would love to see a message sent loud and clear this year from the independence grassroots. Everyone out there,
    Banners and flags from one side of Scotland to the other instead of a march, in a city..
    If you do not go through the city at that particular time and MSM ignore reporting it, it’s a waste of time, nobody outside in the world even know about it..
    But a continuing long line of banners and flags demanding immediate independence from one side of Scotland to the other, both sides of the roads, working and linking through fields or in gardens and flying from houses and cars.
    So how would this be different from a March,
    1) we would not have to wait until sturgeons decided when or if covid is over. As everyone would be socially distanced,
    2) we do not have to ask permission for police traffic control, if your not causing traffic problems. Holding up traffic standing to near a road.
    3) we do not have to ask unionist councillors permission to be in the inner cities.
    4) one long continuous line across Scotland looks more impressive and like a Scottish border, a bigger visual impact by far.
    5) not so easily ignored by tourists, sturgeon or mainstream media, people travelling or holidaying will post it on social media, locals will either object or celebrate it, and also socially post it,
    The biggest problem would be the organisation needed for finding permission on private ground. If you know anyone please ask.

  45. dakk says:

    A couple of months to lick your wounds and get your arses back onside.

    After that you will be on the wrong side of history and won’t be forgiven.

  46. Famous15 says:

    Jim Fairlie wins!

    Good guy.

    Labour it seems likes to vote Tory! But the Unionists still lost.

    I want independence and am tempted to rejoin to motivate a cleansing.

  47. Ottomanboi says:

    The painfully slow rate of delivery of results may well be due mask restricted breathing problems.
    All that recycled breath, bad for cognitive response. Keeps you «safe» from the bug though.
    Totally pathetic.

  48. Mist001 says:

    So, what’s Plan B then?

    Another five years of Murrell/SNP bad on here, or what?

  49. David A. says:

    @ Heaver:
    “How to get control of the mass-media. That is the problem.”

    You don’t ever. You don’t have the political clout or the vast wealth needed. What you need to do is use and encourage and build out the alternatives like this platform and many others needed. The powers in charge want to put the genie of the internet back in the bottle and turn it back into something they can control like TV and newspapers with a new face.

    Replacing the old media with something new and distributed is what is needed and perfectly realistic in our current tech era.

    There’s going to be a lot dystopian stuff coming in the pipeline in the coming year(s) and all the seals will be happy clapping it into being as they get thrown their fish and the only dissenting voices will be the few ordinary people outside of that loop that dare to speak out and share what others have spoken.

  50. James Che. says:

    Let’s go visual in a big way first, before underground

  51. Sharon says:

    There has to be some kind of recourse to law over this! We are equal members of the UK who voted in the opposite direction to the member whose vote result WE are somehow bound to! Why is the EUref result irrelevant to Scotland? That’s a crime against democracy ffs!

  52. John Martini says:


    Plan B is to Trust the plan. IndyAnon has got it covered.

  53. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @Crisiscult at 1.05 pm

    Agreed. But think yersel’ lucky, man. I’m a bloomin’ Dee!!


  54. Derick fae Yell says:

    Freya says:
    8 May, 2021 at 1:51 pm

    “I don’t feel this is the time to give up at all, especially when I see so many teenagers & young people in their 20s eager to see an independent Scotland.

    They need the support of ”oldies” to achieve that. We cannot let them down.”


    We didn’t give up when support was 14%. We’re hardly going to give up now

  55. Red says:

    Ottomanboi says:
    8 May, 2021 at 1:40 pm
    Not exactly a picture of glowing health….but when the masks are finally off who will prove the fitter?

    OB, I enjoy your off-kilter takes.

    The mask mania keeps reminding me of that old Twilight Zone episode. Rod Serling and his writers knew a thing or two about human nature:

  56. brian lucey says:

    ‘Listen. Don’t blame the people. We’re the first of the British colonies, with the convenience of being next door.’
    That’s Ireland.

  57. Wee Chid says:

    “She has a plan…” Yawn. I think I’ll take up fighting to retain women’s rights instead of campaigning for indy. At least I might get somewhere.

  58. Lorna Campbell says:

    It is not the end of the line, Rev but it is the end of something very important. We have reached the crossroads, and it is time now to choose. Neither Nicola Sturgeon and her coterie, nor Boris Johnson and his, get it yet, but they have helped to draw up the battle lines, and, this time, many Scottish women will also be on the frontline.

    At last, Alisa Henderson has actually stated that the NO vote linked directly to the Leave vote and both link directly to the constituencies. The Unionists have gamed the system in both the constituencies and list (are you listening, Nicola?) while we have f****d up royally yet again. Well, this time, it really is about independence or absorption into a Greater England. First, the women must be betrayed and have all their rights and spaces removed before she betrays the Scots yet again. It is called collaboration by any other name. The metaphorical tarring an feathering will come soon enough.

  59. Freya says:

    Sharon says:
    8 May, 2021 at 2:11 pm
    There has to be some kind of recourse to law over this! We are equal members of the UK who voted in the opposite direction to the member whose vote result WE are somehow bound to! Why is the EUref result irrelevant to Scotland? That’s a crime against democracy ffs!

    It is, and Nicola being a lawyer should know that, so it is bizarre there hasn’t been the slightest indication the SNP has looked into that.

  60. MaggieC says:

    It’s not just the National with their front pages , here’s the article from the bbc in 2016 ,

    “ SNP’s Nicola Sturgeon announces new independence referendum bill “

    And what has she done about it since then , it’s just another carrot dangling on a string .

  61. Hoonose says:

    The darkest hour is just before dawn.
    Not sure which year though.
    I keep thinking of our forebears who over the centuries have come up with so many genial answers and I say that we must not let our spirits be broken now. We just can’t let them win.
    We will find a way together.

  62. Patricia Spencer says:

    Just heard Angus Robertson say economic recovery post covid comes before independence….is it just me?

  63. susanXX says:

    Please don’t stop Stu, we need you to rip off the septic sores that cover Scotland x

  64. mr thms says:

    Dan @ 1:56 pm

    Jim Fairlie elected in Perthshire South & Kinross-shire (Mid & Fife)

    The SNP’s most marginal seat in today’s counting and puts their final tally between 63 and 65 seats!

  65. Lost says:

    Boris Johnson says “No independence referendum.

    Nicola Sturgeon says “OK”

  66. Lost says:

    @Patricia Spencer

    Noooopeee. Not just you. Started so early. We’ll still be in economic recovery by the next election.

  67. Alastair Bryan says:

    ALBA must continue and hopefully make a breakthrough next time. The Unionists want us to give up the fight. I will never give up the dream of independence.

  68. willie says:

    Kicked in the nuts.

    No change. Same as it was. Brexit, reduced parliament powers, continuing Tory rule, and fuck off with your notion of independence and or a referendum.

    And all the while around a million votes wasted on the SNP list vote.

    So welcome to Nicola’s big plan. Nothing – just another five years pay and perks for the time servers.

  69. John Digsby says:

    So is this the end of the road for Wings now, Stu?

  70. Alison says:

    I hope this is just day after gloom but part of me almost wishes Alba hadn’t been created. Six weeks ago I was resigned to today’s results & to have had a bit of hope for a wee while somehow makes the reality worse.
    Five more years of gradualism, whether under Nicola or the ‘booby prize’ Robertson, is just gruesome to contemplate.

  71. James Barr Gardner says:

    1 in 4 Scottish children living poverty will grow up to curse those who denied them a real and meaningful future !

  72. Margaret Lindsay says:

    I felt gutted like a fish after 2014, but still felt defiant enough to post on social media. Today i just feel fecked. Who would have thought the SNP would have grown into this abomination seven years ago?

  73. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ” A couple of months to lick your wounds and get your arses back onside.

    After that you will be on the wrong side of history and won’t be forgiven.”

    To whom are you talking?

  74. willie says:

    Alison, I suspect there is a lot to come out about Angus Robertson, his wife and Nicola Sturgeon and how they conspired to do down Alex Salmond.

    For his part Alex Salmond has made no criticism of Sturgeon and the Alba party actively encouraged first vote Alba. But Sturgeon sold the voters short and has played as a bad egg – and I think the truth is going to emerge.

    And frankly who cares. She is as this result has shown bad news. The SNP is dead in the water. A job creation sinecure where their elected members can mark time taking the pay and perks delivering nothing.

    Its not even gradualism. We’re going backwards.

  75. Mark Boyle says:

    All rise for the new national anthem.

  76. Famous15 says:

    In economics, things take longer to happen than you think they will and then they happen faster than you thought they could.

    Rudi Dornbusch

    Normality will return. Independence is normal.

  77. BLMac says:

    As I made my mark on SNP1 I realised this could be a nostalgic moment.

    My last ever vote for SNP unless they do something about independence within the next year.

  78. Lost says:

    You know you’re living through weird times when you feel as wrecked as Douglas Ross looks.

  79. willie says:

    Sorry, last post should have said the ” Alba Party actively encouraged first vote SNP ”

    Whereas Sturgeon sought to garner the million wasted votes.

  80. Sharny Dubs says:

    Sturgeon is the real gambler here, she’s kicked so many political hand grenades down the road. £600K? Legal challenges, Craig Murry, woke la la.

    She’ll come a cropper don’t worry

  81. dakk says:

    “to whom are you talking”

    Wingers in general and yourself in particular Stuart.

  82. John Martini says:

    Are Angus and his wifey the real power behind the empire. Perhaps they ate controlling the murrells

  83. Elizabeth Hagan says:

    I despair for Scotland. Heaven Help us all.

  84. Red says:

    dakk says:
    8 May, 2021 at 1:59 pm
    A couple of months to lick your wounds and get your arses back onside.

    After that you will be on the wrong side of history and won’t be forgiven.

    Oh no please forgive me dakk

  85. Dan says:

    However this election result ultimately plays out leading to the formation of a “Scottish Government”, that Devolved Powers Administration is a house of cards that could be flattened at any time should those with real power in the UK choose to do so.

    Recall how Corbyn was monstered and effectively destroyed. The SNP and Greens for that matter have had next to no scrutiny on some of the darker aspects of what their policies mean to our society, nor have they been serious held to account on the past few years antics so many of the “Scottish Government” have embroiled themselves in.
    They would be toast in short time should the will or need arise by those with real control in this State.

  86. mags says:

    Why does my post have a ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation’ ?

  87. John H. (The original one) says:

    I wonder when “Oor Nicola” will decide to hand over the baton to Angus Robertson.’I’ve done as much as I can. It’s time to hand over the fight to a fresh leader’.

    Then she scoots off to a nice well paid job at the UN or similar.

  88. Allium says:

    I doubt NS has any intention of seeing out the full term of office. Since Angus is the annointed one, he may have more difficulties than she did with the faithful. His power base won’t be as secure, and to put it politely he has neither Salmond’s charisma nor Stugeon’s shrewdness or acting abilities.

  89. Dan says:

    @ mags at 2:55 pm

    Occasionally posts do get held in moderation for some reason. In the past this site ran word filters which caught posts with words such as R4PE or 41Ba. The latter obviously had to be scrubbed when Alex launched the new Party!
    I had a post held earlier on last thread that Stu has now cleared. Couldn’t see anything wrong with it but it is frustrating when it happens.

  90. Tam Fae somewhere says:

    Everyone saying this election results in another 5 years of the SNP doing as little as possible towards independence.

    I don’t think so. They don’t have the money to last 5 years.

  91. Sharny Dubs says:

    Folks try and see the big picture. we are faced with our country being ravaged by the “progressives”, its happening around the western world, the US, Canada, Australia etc, but not you can note in the East so much yet.

    We have real issues to fight for, children in poverty, food banks increasing at an alarming rate, drug problems unchecked, the loss of woman’s wrights, the denial of science, the woke culture. Folks who live in MSM and don’t look out their door.

    Real issues, not a slap on the wrist or whether you have to call someone He/She/it.

    I’m reminded of a Tom Waits quote, “I’m not fighting for justice, I’m not fighting for freedom, I’m fighting for my life”

    If there’s was ever a time we needed the likes if WOS and Alba its now, not when things are rosy.

    Please get a grip and don’t heed the trolls

  92. Robert G says:

    I wonder how long it will be before the increasingly popular and fairly competent Kate Forbes will be subjected to the Joanna Cherry treatment?

  93. Cenchos says:

    Is there a free whoopee cushion inside?

  94. robertknight says:

    Still praying for SNP/Greens 64, ALBA 2

  95. Luigi says:

    Pardon my ignorance but what is so bad about Angus Robertson other than being a pal of Nicola? Is there any proof he was involved in some shady business? I kinda liked the guy when he led the SNP @ WM. A lot better than the current incumbent lol

  96. Dan says:

    @ Robert G

    She has already been in the firing line from the Mennie.
    Note date is 2020 not 2021.

  97. highseastim says:

    As I’ve been saying for months, Salmond and Galloway are yesterday’s men!!

  98. Ottomanboi says:

    Dont get the logic of some btl comments. The SNP is, despite the irritating quirks, still the nominal independence party. Flouncing off saying you’ll never vote SNP ever again is not just defeatist its Unionist.
    If you dont like the trends join it and change it or opt for Alba or, better still, both.
    Dont leave the politics to THEM.
    THEY’d relish that.
    The SNP has crossed the Rubicon, there is no going back, for anyone.

  99. James Barr Gardner says:

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose !

  100. mags says:

    Dan Well my first post has now disappeared?

  101. Cenchos says:

    Angus Robertson has the look of a man leaving an A&E department with a broken vacuum cleaner.

  102. fillofficer says:

    what a non-event this election has been
    only 2 things worth commenting on, really
    ‘both votes snp’ blatant deviousness
    mr sturgeons’ conspicuous absence at the polling station

    no more snp votes from me 🙁

  103. Mia says:


    I am looking at Glasgow southside in the URL below:

    The total number of votes in the constituency was 32807
    the total number of votes in the regional list was 31,788

    Where are the 1,019 votes missing? Are we expected to believe that over 1000 people spoiled their regional votes?

    There is also something else interesting here:

    Sturgeon got 19735 votes in the constituency

    When you look at the regional votes you have 13661 for the SNP and 6063 for the Greens. That makes 19724. Almost a perfect match for the SNP alone in the constituency. According to those figures you would think that All greens voted for SNP1 and then for green in the list.

    There are also 636 votes for Alba. Well then, where do those come from? What do these people voted for in the constituency? Are we expected to believe that all of them spoiled their constituency ballots or that they voted for unionist parties?

    It does not make sense at all for labour voters to vote tory in this constituency because if Sarwar were to lose the constituency seat, they should secure his entering through the list. Yet, while you have in this constituency 10,279 votes for labour in the constituency, you have just 7729 votes in the list. That is 2,550 potential labour voters voting for somebody else in the list. Who? The tories only got an extra 1,111 votes in the list compared with the constituency. So where are the rest? Are we expected to believe that 1439 labour voters simply spoiled their list vote? Or are we expected to believe that half of those Labour voters cast their ballot for ALBA compromising the chances of Sarwar getting in the list?

    Something in these figures does not quite tally.

    Interestingly, there is no information about spoiled ballots yet.

  104. wee monkey says:

    Mia says:
    8 May, 2021 at 3:14 pm
    Quote:- “Mmmm”.

    Mmm. If they have stitched up X2 political opponents and one fall guy [the original “let’s see if we can do this” YT personality]
    what’s a wee bit of ballot rigging?

    Och it just “helps things along” ken..

  105. Shocked says:

    Oh Luigi ????.

    Rear admiral Robertson is the worst of the worst. A man so mired in sleaze and so in thrall to the New SNP blackmail book he (or indeed those close to him) would do anything to please Queen Nicola. A jail sentence would be too good for him.

  106. Mia says:

    ‘both votes snp’ blatant deviousness”

    Ahh! But was that deviousness or was part it part of some kind of loose agreement with the unionist parties to stop ALBA getting in through the list?

    Let’s just imagine a crazy scenario, one where tories, labour and libdems actually helped the SNP win comfortably in some constituencies, that could be targeted due to the hate bill and the battle against women, in exchange for the SNP to get their voters to cast “SNP1 and SNP2” to block ALBA and ensure the unionists keep their seats.

    How would the votes look like in such scenario?

    I am looking at Anne Sommerville’s constituency. Against expectations, this person got an astonishing 5.7% increase in the vote in the constituency, even more astonishingly, to the expense of tories, labour and libdems, at a very similar percentage each.

    I am awaiting for the list results for this constituency and see how the vote played out here.

  107. Big Jock says:

    If Nicola had teamed up with Alba. The SNP could have won 66 plus constituency seats, a couple on the list, and prevented many Tories getting list seats.

  108. Dan says:

    mags says: at 3:13 pm

    Well my first post has now disappeared?

    Ahh, now you mention that iirc you have in the past been put on moderation due to possibly posting over-emotional stuff after imbibing a tad too much Chardonnay.

    @ Mia

    Maybe the Alba voters voted Sarwar with constituency ballots… Alert readers may have noted this would be a possibility.

    Right, Apologies as I’ve been way over posting on here today as stuck indoors due to minging weather. Off to watch more Breaking Bad before I get a ban.

  109. PaulaJ says:

    Well, as someone who considers herself to be a democrat, I can only conclude that the majority in Scotland, knowingly or otherwise, want women to feel unsafe and seek to give encouragement to those who would lower the age of consent, so that some rum types have sexual access to children.
    Strange times indeed, yet that’s what we in Scotland have voted for.
    As for Indy2 – the jury’s out (until Nicola gets rid of juries, that is).

  110. Lochside says:

    This result was inevitable: the inexorable coalescence of Unionist votes ( switch votes) to ‘stop’ the perceived threat of ‘independence and the big turnout of uninformed ( i.e. the two votes SNP waste) SNP electorate to ‘support it. Alba supressed by the foreign owned and State run media from the ‘oxygen of publicity.

    But it is deeper: the ‘English pale’ in the North East, South west and Borders demonstrating the reality of the demographic changes of the influx of anti-Scottish identifiers who are resolute in their opposition to our Sovereignty. This is and will continue in its numbers growing as the ‘new normal’ permits further white flight English working from their new homes in Scotland remotely and supplanting the indigenous youth.

    The complete silence by the SNP on salient and immediate issues such as : Sovereignty; the GERS fiction and how much Scotland actually contributes to its own impoverishment by giving away our natural wealth; the poisonous ongoing anti-Scottish narrative by a foreign owned media; and the complete central belt fixation; the land ownership question; the ongoing shocking poverty levels.

    Friedrich Engels, Marx’ sponsor used the term “false consciousness” regarding a subordinate class that

    ‘willfully embodies the ideology of the ruling class. Engels dubs this consciousness “false” because the class is asserting itself towards goals that do not benefit it. “Consciousness”, in this context, reflects a class’s ability to politically identify and assert its will’.

    That analysis could be applied to a colonial minded population that is the reality of Scotland. One half of our population has gained a level consciousness of its subordination, but has not yet reached the level of understanding of the SNP Leadership is a fellow travelling Unionist and Devolutionist clique employing false lies re. its real intention i.e. status quo as a subordinate region of the UK.

    Unfortunately, the other half are still in total denial. But as the SNP have never in the last 7 x years make an attempt to explain the absolute positive changes that Independence could bring. And we know why…the real objective: virtue signalling and oppressive legislation…Hope over Fear essentially. How very ironical.

  111. Ottomanboi @ 3:13 pm

    The SNP is, despite the irritating quirks, still the nominal independence party. Flouncing off saying you’ll never vote SNP ever again is not just defeatist its Unionist.
    If you dont like the trends join it and change it or opt for Alba or, better still, both.

    What’s your plan for changing the SNP from within when x number of grassroots members have said that nobody listens to them and stuff filters from top down not bottom up?

  112. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Predictably, the British state and the Scottish establishment had little to fear in the way of radical intent or anything remotely challenging, on the part the Scottish electorate.

    THE DAY NOTHING HAPPENED, yes, indeed!

  113. Mia says:

    “Maybe the Alba voters voted Sarwar with constituency ballots… Alert readers may have noted this would be a possibility”

    All of them? That is simply not credible. There is also a mismatch of over 1000 ballots between the constituency and the list. This would be credible if it was the other way round, like Alba voters spoiling their constituency votes. But it does not make any sense at all for unionists to spoil their list ballots when their only chance is to get in through the list.

  114. Big Jock says:

    Lochside same for Shetland and Orkney. Full of incomers. So keep voting English Liberal. SNP are really strong in the areas with the fewest people from South of the border.

  115. WhoRattledYourCage says:

    You know, I confess, I don’t feel any hatred anymore, towards any side at all. I don’t feel part of this country anymore, and that’s fine. No anger, hatred, blame, finger-pointing, accused-blaming, he-said-she-said-ing. It’s all a sweet sick joke. Why even get angry? These politicians are just as lost as everybody else, so looking to them for solutions is ridiculous. Just get on with your own lives, and if the clowns end up fucking with you…slap them down. They certainly won’t tell me what to think or say or so. Ever.

  116. John Martini says:

    SNP = MI6.

    Nobody can be trusted in the scottish police state. Be careful not to be too loose with your lips in front of the child spies.

  117. Luigi says:

    First question to Nicola Sturgeon after the dust settles: “Your Both Votes SNP policy has resulted in one million wasted votes. Do you still think it was a good idea?”

  118. PacMan says:

    Patricia Spencer says: 8 May, 2021 at 2:22 pm

    Just heard Angus Robertson say economic recovery post covid comes before independence….is it just me?

    Going slightly off-topic, I wonder if one of the reasons for the lack of support for Alba was that people bought into this notion of economic recovery before independence and thought that by voting Alba it would be jeopardizing the recovery?

  119. Soda says:

    “Mr Harvie says it will be up to the SNP if they want to carry on as a minority government if they miss getting a majority.

    If the SNP wants to reach out and make coalition arrangements with the Greens it will be his whole party that decides to agree to that, he adds.”


  120. JimuckMac says:

    Luigi…Angus Robertson along with Blackford and Sturgeon sat round a table and conspired a plan to send Alex Salmond to jail for the rest of his life.

  121. highseastim says:

    Well, well, well, SNP 1&2 was definitely the way to go in Moray as they’ve also won the list seat!!!!

  122. PacMan says:

    Luigi says: 8 May, 2021 at 3:45 pm

    First question to Nicola Sturgeon after the dust settles: “Your Both Votes SNP policy has resulted in one million wasted votes. Do you still think it was a good idea?”

    As others have said, she’ll get GRA introduced and then sail off to pastures new.

    The question although needs to be asked of the mugs who genuinely voted SNP x2 thinking it would deliver independence.

  123. Freya says:

    Interesting the huge differences between Nicola and Angus Robertson when speaking about priorities to focus on. I have counted nine times already since yesterday that Nicola have mentioned – whether verbally or in writing – pandemic, economy and the highly ambiguous ”when the times is right for that” in order to avoid talking about independence.

    Robertson, on the other hand, keeps repeating that the people have spoken and they say that “Scotland’s future should be in Scotland’s hands”. He has also said that all the parties who want to block indyref2 have been rejected.

    This SNP is more divided than ever before. I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

  124. Daisy Walker says:

    Craig Murray has just saved me £100

    This from his twitter account

    ‘My own brief analysis of what went wrong for Alba.

    With very little mainstream media coverage, and that viciously hostile, we relied very heavily on social media.

    There, we alienated many people by apparent identification with an obsessive and irrational hatred of trans people.’

    Just for the record, I don’t have any hatred towards trans people. I do however recognise the current changes in the law undo very hard won rights for women, impinge on the safety of women and children, and the current practices on children with puberty blockers – amount to chemical sterilisation and child abuse.

    High up on my to do list was a visit to my bank on Monday to £100 into your defence account.

    Further down on my to do list was to put some aside for your family in case you get jailed.

    Anyway, as the old saying goes (before it got stolen), ‘womens rights are human rights’ – and since I’m such an ‘obsessive, irrational, hater’ my money can stay in my pocket.

  125. M says:

    Hooray for Nicola the Unions saved!

  126. Mia says:

    Glasgow Pollock Results

    Based on the constituency results announced in wikipedia
    and the regional votes in the council site

    There are a few interesting things here:

    Humza got 18,163 in the constituency.
    The SNP got 16600 in the list.
    The difference is 1563 votes. You would expect that genuine SNP voters that did not vote SNP2 would go for a pro indy party in the list, say the greens or Alba.

    Well, the greens got 1975 in the list. But they already had 1651 in the constituency. 324 SNP voters possibly went green.

    But what about the 1238 remaining? Where did they go? Are we expected to believe that yes voters would cast a list vote for tories or some of the other britnat parties and right wing parties in the list? Or what we have here is unionist voters boosting the SNP in the constituency?

    Labour got 11,o58 in the constituency. But only 8899 in the list. That is a difference of over 2000 votes. Where did they go?
    The cons got 1849 in the constituency and 3832 in the list. I would say the extra 2000 labour votes may have gone to the tories. That keeps he question, where did the 1238 SNP1 votes missing went in the list?

  127. Lochside says:

    We are into the next phase of the struggle. Sturgeon and co. cannot delay anymore their blatant avoidance of facing up to the British State. With the emergence of Alba, they got the benefit of the last throw of many real nationalists’ constituency dice.

    We need to build the alternative movement incorporating the ALBA party and AUOB expertise in mass demonstrations; organised media rebuttals e.g. phone ins, letters to Unionist press all about the real issues economy, jobs, currency, land ownership, removal of nuclear weapons etc. etc.

    We must make the Sovereignty issue a real one, not an abstract , but one about real democracy and about our historical hijacking by England and continuing oppression by its undemocratic unwanted government. We must energise the ordinary unengaged mainly working class electorate, like in 2014 ,and we can swing over the 51% needed in a Referendum victory.

  128. Freya says:

    Listening to the repeat of Kate Forbes’ interview on the radio. Loved her mention of law/legal procedures against the UK government if a new referendum is denied.

    This is the kind of talk a SNP leader should be doing.

  129. Andy Ellis says:

    @Daisy Walker 3.58pm

    Good call. Save your money for donation to Alba. I was tempted to put my hand in my pocket if he ended up getting jailed.

    Doubtless he’d prefer to do without money from people he (spuriously) regards as identified with an obsessive and irrational hatred of trans people.

  130. Stuart says:

    Daisy Walker,

    Powerful stuff, not that these type of people will acknowledge it or in fact ask you to expand on what you mean, without a whole load of insults.

  131. Big Jock says:

    Salmond hit the sweet spot in 2011. 45% of the vote. Only 53 first seats and 16 on the list. This time SNP 48% 62 first seats estimate, and maybe 2 list seats.

    The DHont system only delivers majorities if you don’t do so well on the 1st vote. It shows what a ridiculous notion it is, that unless you get an overall majority its not a mandate.

    SNP are doing 3% better than 2011!

  132. mags says:

    Dan says:
    8 May, 2021 at 3:36 pm

    mags says: at 3:13 pm

    “Well my first post has now disappeared?”

    Ahh, now you mention that iirc you have in the past been put on moderation due to possibly posting over-emotional stuff after imbibing a tad too much Chardonnay.

    ‘tad too much Chardonnay’? and how do you come to that decision. ‘over-emotional’ wrong again. Go on give it another try. Nothing wrong with what i posted

  133. Alec Lomax says:

    Permit me a wee chuckle.

  134. Billy says:

    The sheep have voted, the Wolfe awaits!

  135. Ottomanboi says:

    David Beveridge 3:13pm
    Not for me to teach grannie to suck eggs. However, non participation allows minorities with «agendas» to have easy time promoting them.
    It may be that the SNP is what it is because people dont care enough or have been too trusting.
    UK politicians get an easy ride because there is a culture of deference to authority: not so in warmer climes.
    The hybrid election system in Scotland impedes political development, by design.
    A straight PR system would not.
    Who said democracy was an easy choice?

  136. David A. says:

    Don’t worry, you might not get independence in the next decade but you will get a hundred kinds of bathrooms and free hormone blockers for toddlers on the NHS and unsually dressed men at the top of any women’s groups and running their shelters so it all balances out, right? Well it’d better be all right with you because you won’t be allowed to object pretty soon without going to prison for it.

  137. Daisy Walker says:

    Re Craig Murray, in addition, ‘Further down on my to do list was to put some aside for your family in case you get jailed.’

    I don’t think you will get jailed, I think they will try to break you with a huge fine.

    However please be re-assured, if they do send you to jail, the average percentage of sex offenders within the male prison community is 12%. And most of them perpetrated their offences against women.

    The average percentage of self identifying ‘women’ prisoners who have convictions for sex offences – as they demand (and receive) transfer to womens prisons is 56%.

    This won’t bother you, unless or until it’s your wife getting jailed, then the penny might drop.

    But you know, obsessive, irrational, hatred.

  138. Red says:

    Daisy Walker says:

    Craig couldn’t be more wrong. There’s no “irrational hatred” of “trans” people, it’s just the usual tedious crybully tactics of an aggressive minority gaslighting normal people and accusing them of being obsessive bigots if they notice things the transcult doesn’t want critical scrutiny of. Alba’s approach to the matter was extremely moderate and reasonable.

    The only people “alienated” are a miniscule, if voluble, band of extremely online Twitter weirdos already extremely well served by the SNP, the Greens, the Lib Dems and Labour. Genderwoowoo is not popular, it’s profoundly unpopular, and the only reason the SNP has gotten away with it so far is the complete lack of attention to the subject from the MSM.

    I still wish Craig well.

  139. holymacmoses says:

    There is still the money to follow Wings

  140. Stephen says:

    The vast majority of Scottish people are not that well informed.
    They are not tuned into politics.
    After all it is a well known Scottish trait to avoid the topics of politics and religion.

    When they find out what Sturgeon and her woke band are really all about, then there will be a rude awakening.

    It will be a rammy.

  141. David A. says:

    Wonder how many of the timid SNP members who were igoring the corruption up to now but muttering they would defect after the election will still do so in the face of this victory? Nose in the trough over principles once more? More excuses to pretend it’s all somehow worth it and moral?

  142. Lochside says:

    Craig is wrong about the transphobia slur about Alba. However, this eccentric is a scrupulously honest and consistently pro Indy scribe in his views.

    Because of his belief in truth and justice, he lost his top diplomatic role in Uzbekistan for exposing human rights breaches.

    He was smeared by the security forces in addition with sexual allegations ( sound familiar?). He has been a lone voice for freedom of speech in his unceasing support of Julian Assange in the judicial crucifixion by the English legal system and similarly with Alec Salmond’s trial he was the only one who transcribed and published the defence case. For the latter he has been framed as a contempt of court accused for allegedly providing ‘alphabet i.d.’ of the prosecution witnesses.

    His court case has been a long drawn out and delayed one. His sentence has also been delayed. He is facing jail. I think it is churlish and vindictive to pick his wrong view on transphobia as a reason to punish him. If he goes to jail, his life may well be at risk as he is not a fit man and of pension age.

  143. stuart mctavish says:

    Oddly enough Dick Turpin also wore a mask but whether his preferred vice led to his wife catching seasonal flu or depression from it, the ultimate solution was to have him well hung – so should the elusive Mr F ever have the courage to expose himself, history has at least one good answer to his current predicament.

  144. Michael B says:

    If the LibDems get only the 4 seats that the BBC is now projecting, and so are not treated as a ‘major party’ with attendant privileges at Holyrood, does that mean we will be spared having to listen to Willie Rennie bump his gums every week at FMQs?

  145. Stuart says:


    Please describe without insults, how Scotland is/was both an equal member of the UK (true some would say) and is allowed to opt out of decisions on the whole it doesn’t like (despite the fact nearly 1, million of her citizens voted for it.???

    You have unfortunately again fallen for Sturgeons outright lies and habit (as used to a large extent on here), of “debating” something you’d like to be true versus reality at the time. You could join Sir Kneel down south, apparently he needs some support and definitely falls for the same logical fallacy.

  146. willie says:

    Downing Street is now ecstatic that Sturgeon has failed to secure a majority.

    And a BBC commentator Alan Little has just said that the democratic route to independence is now closed and that Boris Johnson government will now move to law and force to stop independence.

    Well done Nicola for letting the cause down. Two votes SNP the wee fucker just binned around a million votes to secure one or maybe two SNP seats.

  147. tartanfever says:

    Re the Craig Murray comments.

    I believe Craig Murray to be innocent. I also donate monthly to him for his journalism, especially his defence of Assange.

    However, he irrationally accuses Alba supporters of trans hatred, an all encompassing smear.

    Yet he is deploying precisely the same tactic that has been used against him and, at the end of the day, in law, he is the one to have been found guilty of identification of the accusers against Alex Salmond.

    So, in a similar spirit, if you’re reading this Craig, just why do you hate women ? (and by that I mean biological adult females.)

  148. Ian Mac says:

    So Nikla has hardly moved the dial, despite the SNP and their bloggers desperately demanding a majority to ensure a referendum.

    Secondly she offers the excuse about a ‘recovery’ first. Is her belief in independence so shaky that she is acknowledging that she needs Westminster to organise and fund the ‘recovery’? Wouldn’t an actual believer in independence be adamant that a recovery would be far more likely and beneficial via independence?

    She is transparent. She, like the opportunist Greens, isn’t that bothered about indy, except for hoovering up votes. There will always be a reason to put if off. She has a long list of prepared excuses.

    Meanwhile the SNP have more power, absolute in Scotland, than they will ever have after indy. She has the media and the courts in her pocket. Why would she want to risk changing that?

  149. Scozzie says:

    Daisy walker @ 3.56pm
    Agree entirely I also planned to donate to CM. But that tweet has shown me he has no regard for women’s rights. So sad and disappointed. He seems to have a mental block on this issue. Alba got it right and should be applauded for it – the only party standing up for women.

  150. willie says:

    No consent, only force, Boris Johnson wants war.

    Just like Northern Ireland or the gunboats to intimidate the French fishermen, he’s going to ramp up the ante.

    Showboating force, trampling consent, enforcing English governance and I use the word English correctly, never ever ever results well.

    This is a tinderbox just waiting for Johnson to ignite. Scotland expects consent.

  151. Republicofscotland says:

    Women hating Patrick Harvey defeated on the constituency vote by SNP in Glasgow Kelvin.

  152. Freya says:

    Stuart says:
    8 May, 2021 at 4:31 pm

    Please describe without insults, how Scotland is/was both an equal member of the UK (true some would say) and is allowed to opt out of decisions on the whole it doesn’t like (despite the fact nearly 1, million of her citizens voted for it.???

    You have unfortunately again fallen for Sturgeons outright lies and habit (as used to a large extent on here), of “debating” something you’d like to be true versus reality at the time. You could join Sir Kneel down south, apparently he needs some support and definitely falls for the same logical fallacy.

    I do not understand your message at all; it does not match anything I have written on my last posts which were about the speeches Forbes and Robertson have given so far to media. I wonder if your message was directed to someone else, especially taking into account it starts with ”please describe without insults” and I have never been disrespectful to anyone on this forum – or any other, for that matter – and I do not use insults because that is not my style.

  153. Giesabrek says:

    Stuart, your narcissistic attempts to destroy Sturgeon and a pro-indy majority have failed miserably. Now why don’t you and all your mysoginist, Sturgeon obsessed unionists on here just shut up, fuck off and join some other Qanon group.

  154. Cenchos says:

    BBC Scotland Election (16.46) subtitles honestly just called Kelvin’s MSP ‘Coke-up’ Stewart.

  155. GRUNT says:

    I hope Alba uses their 5000 members to hold the SNP to their pledge. If the SNP in 4 years start campaigning for SNP 1 & 2 for an indyref again , Alba will be more organised and ready challenge them on their failure.

  156. kapelmeister says:

    The Notional.

    The Newspaper That Purports Independence.

  157. Baxter1967 says:

    Murray is a traditional liberal so his views on trans rights are not surprising. Brilliant writer and immensely clever but too maverick for politics which is why the SNP hierarchy blackballed him from standing as a candidate. Agree some of the comments on here have been OTT but opposition to the GRA is grounded on real and justified concern for women’s rights. Quite possibly he might not appreciate nor understand that. But hey we can’t all agree on everything and like the Rev he does have a nose for snuffing out hypocrisy and corruption so wouldn’t wish him ill.

  158. Mia says:

    “Stuart, your narcissistic attempts to destroy Sturgeon and a pro-indy majority have failed miserably”

    How is that?

    where is that actual pro-indy majority you talk about?

    The only thing I see in front of me is two parties whose leaders have had 5 years ALREADY to deliver a mandate for independence and yet did not lifted even a finger to have it delivered. On the contrary, actually. They endeavoured to push the yes movement back inciting division with toxic polices to let that precious mandate expire. Can you actually call them pro independence parties after that?

    I am not sure how.

    If Sturgeon was the independence leader she expects everybody to believe she is, she would have encouraged SNP voters to vote for Alba in the list. Instead, she chose to mis-advise them to cast their vote for SNP on the list too and as a result she has sent hundreds of thousands of yes votes right into the bin. I bet you the unionists are delighted and very thankful for her cooperation on them getting the seats on the list. Because that is the only thing she got with her SNP1 SNP2: to help the unionists to preserve their list seats.

    An old cynical like me would argue that she did that on purpose to stop Alba, a real pro indy party and the only one worried about womens’ rights, to enter Holyrood and challenge her in her evident procrastination, contempt for democracy and women and total lack of appetite for independence.

    I am sure she is delighted with the minority she has got. Now she just has another excuse for the next 5 years to continue pushing the yes movement back, to avoid delivering indyref, never mind progressing independence even one inch, and of course to continue handing our powers and sovereignty to England MPs.

    So, let me ask again, where exactly is that pro-indy majority you talk about? Because I see none. The only thing I see is a majority determined to trash hard earned women’s rights. Since when you equate Scotland wining independence with women losing their rights?

  159. Anton Decadent says:

    Re science being rewritten, it occured to me that the nearest building to the Science Centre in Glasgow is the BBC which struck me as somewhat ironic.

  160. Stuart MacKay says:

    Craig is sometimes a prisoner of principle.

    For all his intellect he fails to realise that the people pushing for trans rights don’t share the same motivations for equality that he does.

    It really is a fight for the equality of women. If trans women are women then there’s no need for equal pay for the menstruators and the breast feeders; no need for diversity when trans women provide all the diversity that’s needed; no need for child support services since trans women don’t need those. Reproducing, biological females are going to be relegated to a subgroup. There’s too much money at stake for that not to happen.

    Maybe his wife can slap some sense into him, while she still has the chance.

  161. FrankM says:

    Some so-called Nationalists should be ashamed this day. They have let the shockingly deceitful SNP fool them again with their double SNP votes advice.
    15,672 list votes cast for SNP in Motherwell and Wishaw – these are wasted votes.
    Only 496 votes we’re cast for ALBA. The above SNP votes would have been very meaningful if cast for ALBA – it would have given 16,672 votes in total for ALBA, thus ensuring at least a couple of list Indy seats in this area. Instead, the Tories and Labour pick up the list seats. Presumably this will be repeated and played out all over Scotland.

  162. Stephen says:

    I think you are right.
    However surely Craig should consider the effects of the GRA on schoolchildren who are being fed propaganda and hormones – the same hormones fed to Turing when he was castrated.

    Do the liberals also think that we should meekly resile to the rigours of the Hate Crime Bill and give up our well established right to free speech and critical thinking?

  163. FrankM says:

    Sorry – that would be a total of 16,168 votes if all cast for ALBA.
    My despair got the better of me there.

  164. JGedd says:

    But you know, obsessive, irrational, hatred.(Daisy Walker)

    In so many ways an admirable person who has bravely opposed tyranny and suffered for his efforts, Craig Murray seems purblind when it comes to the issue of transgenderism. It has been explained to him many times how legislation in favour of self-id will impact on women, yet he seems unable, or unwilling, to understand the argument.

    It is not unusual for men of otherwise impeccable liberal sensitivities to have this particular blind spot. ( After all, it’s not unusual for women to be misogynist, too.) They also seem unable to recognise what is actually misogyny. Usually they would insist that they love women, marry women, insist that some of their best friends are women, so refuse to recognise that they might have a prejudice or to recognise misogyny in others, especially when it masks itself as fighting against discrimination.

    We all owe him a debt of gratitude for his accounts of the Salmond trial and his advocacy for Assange. It is sad, therefore, that his own unrecognised prejudice prevents him from understanding when the rights of women are endangered. His former sideswipes at feminism and so-called ‘misandry’ were warning signs that he was not an ally of women on this issue.

    If he is a member of ALBA he does not seem to recognise that ALBA has attracted many women members because of their stance on women’s rights. It looks like he might oppose them on this.

    Anyway, I wish Craig well and fervently hope that there might be some realisation in the judiciary that his conviction was a step too far which might mitigate any sentencing. His conviction was a travesty of justice needless to say.

  165. Michael B says:

    Once the dust settles, it’ll be interesting to see how the regional list calculations would have gone if 100%, or 50%, or 25% of Votes for the SNP had gone instead to ALBA.

  166. Stuart MacKay says:

    Whoops, I said “breast feeders” instead of “chest feeders” I hope I didn’t offend anybody.

  167. Papko says:

    “We’re so excited we’re already looking forward to the May 2026 version.”


    You have to laugh.

    The SNP have won! .. The Union is safe for another 5 years then.

  168. Breeks says:

    Big Jock says:
    8 May, 2021 at 4:13 pm
    Salmond hit the sweet spot in 2011. 45% of the vote. Only 53 first seats and 16 on the list. This time SNP 48% 62 first seats estimate, and maybe 2 list seats….

    …SNP are doing 3% better than 2011!

    But that’s the point that went over the SNP’s heads… Take the 62 SNP Constituency seats of 2021 but don’t augment that with 2 SNP List seats won from a million votes, use the SNP’s million wasted List votes by converting them into 20+ ALBA List seats which the SNP could not win.

    The point then isn’t the SNP being up or down 3%, it’s that Holyrood would have had an unstoppable pro-Independence Supermajority capable of holding a referendum or plebiscite election whenever it liked, in spite of Section 30. The Unionists wouldn’t have known what hit them.

    Instead of winning 2 or 3 List seats on the back of a million votes, how many pro Indy seats would ALBA have with a million List Seat votes instead of the “0” seats won after Sturgeon put the mark of Caine on all things ALBA? What possible up side did she expect?

    Set aside all the corruption, deception, Transgender guff, apparent embezzlement of £600k, and criminal conspiracy, put it all to one side, and there is still ZERO chance of Scotland ever securing Independence while we have a stunted intellectual dwarf and strategic imbecile like Sturgeon devising strategy. She is worse than hopeless… a duff and bitter general more dangerous to us than anything the Unionists have in their arsenal.

    Alex Salmond doesn’t hit sweet spots. He has consistently revealed the strategic cunning and acumen to create his own “luck”. Had the SNP not cut off it’s nose to spite it’s face, Holyrood would right now be buzzing with a “game-on” supermajority and the whole of Indy loving Scotland would right now be dancing in the street.

    What do we actually have to celebrate? 5 more years of feckless SNP hubris?

  169. Papko says:

    “Only 496 votes we’re cast for ALBA. The above SNP votes would have been very meaningful if cast for ALBA – it would have given 16,672 votes in total for ALBA, thus ensuring at least a couple of list Indy seats in this area. Instead, the Tories and Labour pick up the list seats. Presumably this will be repeated and played out all over Scotland”

    Surely the 52% of the electorate who did not vote SNP should have some say?

    Or does every SNP supporter get two votes and they both count?

  170. Ottomanboi says:

    Get real. The SNP has done well. By Brit standards brilliantly. Time to move out of the whinge mode. Suspect Alba may have galvanized some opinion to shift in a radical direction. What it’s for! It is a very necessary addition to the scene. May it grow in influence.
    Had quite enough of « Scotch Calvinist» gloom.
    This is not Flodden! This is opportunity!
    «I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet»
    Mahatma Gandhi.
    Feasgar mhath!

  171. Mia says:

    “Instead, the Tories and Labour pick up the list seats. Presumably this will be repeated and played out all over Scotland”

    Of course it will. It very much seems that Nicola Sturgeon demanded SNP1 and SNP2 not to ensure her party a majority, but to ensure the unionists did not lose their seats and in doing so blocked ALBA. You can only interpret her SNP1 SNP2 as a collusion with the interests of the unionists to block Alba and maintain the status quo in HOlyrood. Independence was the last thing in her mind as it has been the last thing in her mind for the last 6 years.

    I think, if the rev is up for it, an article explaining the consequences of this stupidity of SNP1 and SNP2 vote and then indicating how the list seats would have gone should a 10%, 20% etc of the SNP1 voters had voted Alba instead would be very useful indeed. The sooner the SNP voters are shown this, the sooner they will be understanding what to do next time round. Some of them may even be annoyed at her for having fooled them into wasting their list vote so the list seats were handed back to unionists instead.

    Somehow I can already envision the unionists plus the pretend pro independence parties colluding into passing a bill in Holyrood to stop Alba’s strategy being legal next time.

  172. Richard Hunter says:

    I’m not going to feel too disheartened on a day that the SNP get at least a plurality of seats in the Scottish Parliament. I share the frustration at the slow progress towards a referendum (or, as I prefer, a unilateral declaration of independence), but I see it as our job to push them towards that.

  173. Stuart says:


    Sincere apologies, and to the clown who replied below… well can’t really help you, and by god you need help.

  174. Rob Brown says:

    Alba never stood a chance because of the way it was starved of the “oxygen of publicity” our public disservice broadcasters

  175. Al-Stuart says:

    Garrion at 1.57pm

    Thanks. You ignited a wee bit of hope there.

    I think we are having a 19th September 2014 day today. Like the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang car movie. Today is…

    Shitty Shitty Crap Bang Stagnant Sturgeon day.

    After IndyRef1 happened and we were all in crappolla land. I am SO glad to have been alive to see what happened next. The three years when SNP membership rocketed. The time we sent 56 SNP members to utterly shock Westminster.

    Then Nicola fucked it all up.

    Alba simply haven’t YET had enough time, but I bet the BEST time is yet to come.

    Sturgeon WILL eventually get the bum’s rush and evicted in the manner of Tony Blair. A shunned political pariah. Her beard man gets the jail. The triumvirate of Scottish institution leaders identified by Alex Salmond at the Fabiani Whitewash end up either in jail or homeless in penury as they are surcharged for the likes of Evans illegally pishing millions of taxpayer money away. Linda Evans = the surcharged bankrupt Dame Shirley Porter. Think Evans can’t be bankrupted like Porter? Think again:

    Pride does come before a fall and we are about to witness a humongous implosion when someone puts the collection of six years’ of The National IndyRef2 broken promise front pages in front of Scotland’s duped electors. In a way that every man, woman and child in Scotland gets to see.


    Here’s the thing (thanks for the lateral thought inspiration Garrion).

    I think we have missed a trick.

    Fuck Holyrood. It is currently a Woke Captured Nicola Worshipping IndyBlocker controlled by the British State.

    How about we learn a wee bit from British history. One question and your answer is important…

    On social media have you EVER seen an English Nationalist of Little Englander moan on about Sweattie Jocks (and other racial slur epithets) who are benefit scrounging, sponging bas7ards living off of English subsidies?

    If your answer is YES then that’s our exit-route.

    England is NINE times the size of Scotland. We have to get the next bit right: Deploy England’s strength to help Scotland become Independent? Delicious irony. Yes? No?

    Just an example. Crowdfund £100,000 to post a slimmed down version of the Wee Blue Book To Help England Be 500,000 English households.

    The aim?

    To get 500,000 English voters to petition THEIR Prime Minister, Boris Johnson to GET RID of sponging Scots by FORCING a U.K.Wide Referendum on whether to separate England from Scotland.

    At this moment, even if the Alba Party had gotten 10 Holyrood MSPs we would be fighting an uphill struggle. It would end up in court. Joanna Cherry might be able to win and force Boris to give us IndyRef2. Joanna humiliated Boris on the preroguining of Westminster and was rewarded by Nicola Stagnant by being thrown under a bus.

    NOPE. whatever way Scotland goes via Holyrood we are in the Hamster-Wheel-To-Nowhere. A wheel owned by Westminster and destined to keep us shut up.

    Our assets and natural resources are raped by Westminster and helped by the seat warming House Jocks such as Cosby Feet Pete and his ambitions to be the Speaker of the English Parliament.

    But IF a huge phalanx of English voters, especially ones captured by Boris in the North of England DEMANDED a vote to get rid of subsidy junky Scotland…



    YES: [__]

    NO: [__]

    We all saw the result of the English national self interest when they wanted to leave the EU.

    Do we really believe that, given the chance, the English would vote to KEEP the benefit scrounging, subsidy junky Scots attached to them?

    The last four years we have witnessed a masterclass from the British State in how the SNP can be destroyed. Up until Alba, we had NO party that HONESTLY believes it will ever NEED to deliver IndyRef2.

    As Craig Murray says: time to cheer up.

    I would suggest, we ONLY need to win IndyRef ONCE.

    How about we make it so those bigoted anti-Scots Trolls FROM England that infest the internet help us to get IndyRef2?

    But we make it absolutely watertight by having the ENTIRE UK vote?

    Stuart, you are possibly a bit fed up, but would it be interesting and possibly a morale boosting tonic to commission a small Panelbase piece of research on whether England’s electors would vote to get rid of the subsidy junky Scots?

  176. Rob Brown says:

    The ultimate source of Craig Murray’s plight is that he is maladjusted in a way many more of us need to be in this maladjusted world. I wrote this in my blog today and he got back straight away to thank me.

  177. Stephen says:


    As you say, this is not Flodden.

    Your Gandhi quote, though, is a perfect critique of the hate crime bill!

  178. Mia says:

    “The SNP has done well”

    That is the problem. If they did as best as they could have done considering the system, this means that demanding people to vote SNP1+SNP2 was at all practical effects fooling them into wasting their regional votes. In other words, they were using the SnP voters’ list votes to help unionists retain their seats and to maintain the status quo that is now going to deny those SNP voters a referendum. That is dishonest.

    A dishonest and flawed strategy designed to deny those voters of a referendum. I do not see how this can be interpreted any other way.

    If the SNP were really a pro indy party, they would be today down beaten because they did not get an outright majority to deliver that referendum. Being happy with a minority when they promised the electorate that they would deliver the referendum only if they got that majority, means they never wanted that majority and deliver that referendum in the first place. In other words, they have taken SNP voters for fools.

  179. Mr Bonobo says:

    My view of the trans debate is essentially there was a large body of sexual justice professionals who faced an empty future after they won every right they could ever have hoped for in all the gay equality legislation. In fact they are now massively over-represented in politics and media.

    At almost exactly the same time, trans went from being an infinitesimally small issue to front and centre of left leaning agenda.

    It is also an irrelevance to the voting public. The reason Alba did so badly is the media bought the official narrative that Sturgeon eight hours of deflection and smears were the bottom line in government transparency, aided by a Crown Office that bent over backwards to gold plate accuser anonymity rules to the point that the inquiries became a farce.

    Over 50% of any time Alba got coverage was to repeat the smears from the court cases.

  180. Breeks says:

    Salmond’s ALBA party should have been the timely and decisive appearance of Blücher’s Prussians arriving at a critical moment during the 1815 Battle of Waterloo, outmanoeuvring Napoleon and proving to be a decisive factor in winning the battle, but instead of welcoming the timely support of an ally, as Wellington did, Scotland’s “General Incompetence”, Nicola Sturgeon turned the guns on them.

    Having squandered our victory, again, are we now meant to applaud the accuracy of the guns or the tactical “genius” which commanded them? Sorry. Don’t have it in me.

  181. Mia says:

    “Or does every SNP supporter get two votes and they both count?”

    Well, unionists designed the system and have been profiting from it since Holyrood was reconvened. What is wrong now for the yes supporters to capitalise on the system like the unionists have been doing for over 20 years? Or it is only unionists who are allowed to make use of their two votes efficiently?

  182. Wee Chid says:

    Daisy Walker says:
    8 May, 2021 at 3:58 pm

    Surely even supporters must see from the appointment of Mridul Wadhhwa what harm allowing this self ID nonsense to progress will do. The Wadhwa guy is neither biologically or legally female but gets appointed to a job, reserved for women under the equalities act. And the SNP wanted to put him on a women only list. FFS are these people totally blind.

  183. anon says:

    Maybe it’s time to admit that the people of Scotland do not, as a whole, want so-called independence – especially not when they know it’ll be given away to a corrupt and incompetent EU that itself is failing fast.

    I do though remain completely bewildered by the continued support for Sturgeon and the SNP.

  184. Stuart says:

    Just seen a tweet (?), where Alex Salmond is saying that “the media is full of cranks and weirdo’s and bloggers tend to be more sane and relatable to normal folk” (I may be paraphrasing not sure)

    If its true, I say more power to your elbow Alex, join the fightback against the “weirdos” and cranks”. I appreciate you don’t care but to a limited extent its been happening in England despite stiff (oo er) opposition from their contemparies in the South. So for the life of me, can’t see why it couldn’t happen in Scotland.

    For me anyone wanting to “build a better Scotland”, whether within the Union or as an Independant nation this is very definitely the place to start, plus its the right thing to do, by any measure I can think of.

  185. Ruby says:

    Baxter1967 says:
    8 May, 2021 at 5:02 pm
    Murray is a traditional liberal so his views on trans rights are not surprising. Brilliant writer and immensely clever but too maverick for politics which is why the SNP hierarchy blackballed him from standing as a candidate. Agree some of the comments on here have been OTT but opposition to the GRA is grounded on real and justified concern for women’s rights


    The GRA has been law in the UK since 2004.

    The current concerns are about reforms to the GRA ie self id.

  186. Stuart says:

    Al Stuart,

    If I may call you mate, THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT… As a Unionist I have been fearing “your lot” realising this.

    Whether rightly or wrongly the majority down south, from generally treating the Scots as a whole with “affection” (you may call it condescension) to a mixture of what you describe above and well if there not happy let them go with our best wishes. Naturally the former gets most voice, while the latter is studiously ignored by the extremes of each position.

    I’ve said before for whatever reasons that Scotland missed out on “doing a Norway” so to speak as an Independant nation back in the 70″s but think forget about its really very simple…. ask the rest of the “Union to vote$, no matter why and then ill give you a large wager that you’ll get your Independance.

    If you don’t mind please eat this message, five minutes after reading . Best Regards. Stuart.

  187. Lochside says:

    Rob Brown..why don’t you trying reading the comments on here preceding yours, before trying to punt your site with your hackneyed analysis?

  188. holymacmoses says:

    dakk says:
    8 May, 2021 at 1:59 pm
    A couple of months to lick your wounds and get your arses back onside.

    After that you will be on the wrong side of history and won’t be forgiven.

    Onside for what?

  189. holymacmoses says:

    dakk says:
    8 May, 2021 at 1:59 pm
    A couple of months to lick your wounds and get your arses back onside.

    After that you will be on the wrong side of history and won’t be forgiven.

    Is that a threat? What are you threatening? Where is ‘onside?
    Are you part of the firing squad?

  190. holymacmoses says:

    Do you know who dakk is?

  191. Ian says:

    If it’s any consolation to Stu, we unionists also get frustrated at the inability of our side to show some basic resolve, seize the moral highground and get the easy things right.


    – All Boris has to say is: ” The Brexit ref. was announced in 2013. Brexit was therefore a distinct possibility fresh in everybody’s minds in 2014. Voting to be part of the UK means nothing if not going along with future UK international treaties, ipso facto. Far from being black swan, Brexit is precisely the sort of thing one is agreeing to go along with, by agreeing to remain in the UK, and a foreseeable such thing at that. There is no pretext for Indyref2, not one iota of substance to your fake grievance. Now jog on. ”

    – Allowing the Scottish population to believe that the UK Furlough scheme was Scottish Government project, when a thing as easy as a gif of a union jack on the application web site would have rendered this widespread misconception impossible. This somehow sent support for separation to 58% in the midst of a pandemic, when the UK has been ramming cold hard cash directly down the throats of every man woman and child in Scotland, when Scots are united as equals with the English around the life-supporting teat of Rishi Sunak. Under such circumstances, support for separation managed to INcrease.

  192. PrinceBishop says:

    What are the odds that now that Salmond has no seat at the table, the election is over and he can be seen to have not damaged independence chances he will now publish the proof he has long since claimed to have held and bring Queen Nic nd her inner sanctum crashing down?

  193. Effigy says:

    Now SNP need people to keep dying from Covid to avoid this
    Logjam of mandates for independence.

    If not they really can’t get away with saying wait for economic recovery
    as that men’s they think Boris is better placed to do it rather than SNP

  194. Jacqueline McMillan says:


    Well done

    You’ve not been raped by a man then? Rape only happens to women.

    If it happens to a man it’s called something else and is also done by a man.

    Shame on the lot of you

  195. Kingu says:

    Same old shite then for the next 5 years. Thanks to everyone who voted for the SNP. Thanks to you a man in a frock can share the toilets with my daughter. Absolute bollocks. Gutless wonders that you all are. We had a chance to reform the SNP by giving them a bloody nose, now they’ll continue to ignore us the Indy faithful. @Rev Stu, thank you. I’m done, leaving all this political shit now. I’m fair sick. No more AUOB marches, I’ve marched my arse off for feck all so marching no more.

    Goodbye lovely peeps, I’ll miss you all but can take no more of this shite. Take care all.

  196. dropthevipers says:

    PrinceBishop says:
    8 May, 2021 at 7:20 pm
    What are the odds that now that Salmond has no seat at the table, the election is over and he can be seen to have not damaged independence chances he will now publish the proof he has long since claimed to have held and bring Queen Nic nd her inner sanctum crashing down?-I was thinking just that-surely the gloves have to come off and this snake in the grass needs to hear the good news?

  197. Budgie says:

    Years more of Sturgeon and Murrell corruption. ffs.

  198. John from Fife says:

    So 140k list votes for the SNP in the NE, no list seats and none for Alba but seats for the Unionist parties. How does Sturgeon think that this does anything for independence.???

  199. Don says:

    Nevermind the 2026 Version John Mason is saying 2031 ?

  200. Don says:

    @Papko 8 May, 2021 at 5:24 pm

    “We’re so excited we’re already looking forward to the May 2026 version.”
    The SNP have won! .. The Union is safe for another 5 years then.”

    John Mason SNP suggesting its safe for 10 years

  201. susanXX says:

    I’m all for repealing the GRA. it’s raison d’etre has gone now same sex marriage is legal. Under absolutely no condition can men become women so get lost with your misogynist fantasies dakk.

  202. Ros Curwood says:

    But what to do about the television and other media coverage? It was outrageous that Alba received no recognition at all, no discussion of the manifesto. Young people and first time voters as well as the thousands who marched under AUOB who are not fans of neoliberal/centralist policies eschewed by the SNP, all denied opportunity to discover Alba. One airhead BBC Scotland presenter speaking AFTER the election to Kesia Dugdale, who spoke the dreaded word Alba twice during an interview, actually said ‘Oh Alba, yes we haven’t heard much about them!’ No we didn’t, you brainless amoral twit, because of the disgraceful decision that you and your fellow ‘reporters’ complied with to totally smother the message Alba brought. How can we address this? Petition possibly?

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