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British news in British numbers

Posted on August 18, 2017 by

Number of references to “UK”, “Britain” or “British” in this story about salmon: 17

Number of references to “Scotland” or “Scottish”: 1 (in a quote)

Percentage of “UK” salmon industry that’s actually in Scotland: 96.3%

(Of the UK’s top 10 food and drink exports listed in the article, around 45% of the total value comes from whisky and salmon alone. Scottish-produced gin adds another 3%. The mystery of why the UK government doesn’t want to let Scotland go deepens.)


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    1. 18 08 17 08:56

      British news in British numbers | speymouth

    574 to “British news in British numbers”

    1. Iain says:

      It’s sometimes hard to live through the death of the union, but it is coming.
      It is a long game.
      When the end comes I suspect it will be sudden.

    2. Les Wilson says:

      So Scotland supplies the top two exports in food and drink!
      Add in all the rest and there is the reason they cling to us like glue. British exports, the damn cheek of it.

    3. Janet says:

      Indeed. And forms Heathrow’s number 1 “export” to the world!

    4. donald anderson says:

      Yeah. It’s a bit like English books on British Munros.

    5. John says:

      It just wouldn’t do for Scotland to have the number 1 AND 2 exports. That’s not British don’t you know.

    6. Marie Clark says:

      Aye, I heard that this morning and I thought WHIT!, when did it become BRITISH salmon and whisky? Have we to stop calling whisky SCOTCH has it to be BRIT now. Disnae have the same ring to it does it.

      There it is, writ large for all to see, just why they cling on to us like limpets. They need our money for their delusions of granduer. Sheesh.

    7. Grouse Beater says:

      The colonial power demonstrates how it even has power over words, categories and descriptions. (This statement has been approved by the Department of Language Control)

    8. Brian Powell says:

      Simple enough, the BBC is a fascist instrument for a Fascist state, the UK. It serves the propaganda war.

    9. scottieDog says:

      For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can scotland produce all its own heat and power?
      If it can be proven that we can it makes us quite unique.

    10. Dr Jim says:

      I just posted that on the last thread
      Damn! when did you get well?

    11. Joemcg says:

      Now,now Stu, this comes under the pooling and sharing of resources mantra. We give them our resources and we get the debt from their spunking cash up the walls on infrastructure and vanity projects like that big boat. That’s fair isn’t it?

    12. Norma B says:

      Glad to see you have recovered, you can’t be gone for too long, we need you!

    13. Albert Herring says:

      Think I’ll have a nice wee dram of Britch to go with my British salmon tonight.

    14. Simon Curran says:

      Nearly said ‘unbelievable’ but actually its all too predictable. Top UK exports come from Scotland a country where many who live there think its too wee, too poor etc. to be independent. These figures should be plastered all over the Scottish press – but somehow I doubt it.

    15. Glamaig says:

      scottieDog says:
      18 August, 2017 at 9:03 am
      For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can scotland produce all its own heat and power?
      If it can be proven that we can it makes us quite unique.

      We absolutely can – Scotland is a net exporter of electricity and (from memory) supplies about 50% of UK oil and gas, so more than self-sufficient in that too.

      In other words Scotland is totally self-sufficient in energy.

      Sorry dont have links to hand right now.

    16. G H Graham says:

      Thankfully though, it’s not all one way. England rightfully gets the recognition is deserves.

      “This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle … This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.” – Bill Shakespeare.

      “England expects that every man will do his duty” – Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson of the British fleet.

      “Cos who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler, if you think old England’s done?” – Theme tune to British TV production of Dad’s Army.

      “For England, James?” – Trevelyan (British spy from the James Bond movie, Goldeneye)

      I’m sure readers can find plenty more.

    17. Muscleguy says:

      Glad you are feeling a bit less peely-wally Rev.

      And of course the taxes and duties on all this all go to (drum roll please) the Treasury in Whitehall.

      Just think what we can do with all the whisky and gin duties divided by 5 million instead of 65million (Yes, yes I know it just keeps the taxes down on the 1%).

      Not to mention the foreign currency earned by all those lovely exports. It would be nice if the salmon industry was a bit more sustainable and bit less environmentally damaging.

      I see Canada has allowed the sale of transgenic salmon with added genes from other fish. The salmon grow faster and larger on the same amount of food. That is a win-win. As a scientist I see absolutely no reason not go there and think that it would help the salmon industry. Sadly there are too many ignorant luddites in the world who will denigrate the product. So we will keep turning the seabed around salmon farms into a eutrophied desert. Sigh.

    18. Phillip says:

      ScottieDog, your question got answered yesterday – not only did Scotland produce enough power over the first six months of this year, it did so with a surplus too. Scotland is self sufficient in production of raw material, energy and tourism, England isn’t. Is it any wonder they’re so clingy?

    19. yesindyref2 says:

      OK, I can do this.

      “And did those feet in Ancient times walk upon UK’s mountains green”

      “UK captain Joe Root names team for West Indies Test”

      “UK v UK: Harry Kane ready to be captain – BBC Sport”

      “I’ll be your long haired lover from UK”

    20. frogesque says:

      Welcome back!

      I guess not Scottish oil and not Scottish oil derived products don’t count.

    21. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      What nonsense they spout in the name of Bwitania and all that is Bwitish.

      Scottish exports to the world are British (‘cos they go through SE England’s Sea and Air Ports).

      But Scotland’s trade with the rest of the UK we are told is worth four times more than its exports to the EU they cry.

      But in the same breath we are not told what percentage of Scotlands ‘exports’ to England are then counted as UK/English exports to the EU and beyond

      I smell shite.

      The Union was mortally wounded by EVEL and then Brexit, it is still bleeding out.

      Without Scotlands resources and out of the EU what is left of rUK is going to be a Third World Economic Fascist Dictatorship.

    22. Naina Tal says:

      Working for a multinational company in the 90s our engineers produced a wee accessory and marked it “Made in Scotland”. The Marketing manager (a South Brit) wouldn’t allow them to be sold. Lay on the shelves for years and eventually went to landfill. Whole lot had to be re made with “made in Britain”.

      Just got me thinking. Anyone else old enough to remember when all their toys were “Empire Made”?

      Being jist a wee boy I didn’t yet know what an Empire was. I suppose I just thought it meant they were ok. Usually cheap tin and plastic shite from Hong Kong though.

      So I guess all the other colonies were the same as us: A name that can’t be mentioned. But UK? OK Made in Britain? OK Made in E*****d? OK! Bastriches! (bastards wi their heeds in the sand…)
      There! Ah feel better noo!

      Incidentally, on holiday in South Britain, I saw a bottle of this in a shop window:
      What the?

    23. gus1940 says:

      Our wonderful colonialist media are frequently rightly criticised for lying and misreporting.

      However, what is seldom mentioned is the incidence of Non-Reporting.

      This week we have been presented with a classical example in the non-reporting of so much as a smidgin of the content of Andrew O’Hagan’s lecture at the Book Festival.

    24. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, the mind boggles.

      “UK Act 1998 (amended 2016)”

      “There shall be a UKish Parliament and that UK Parliament shall be in Edinburgh with 1 First Minister, 15 Cabinet Ministers and 129 MUPs”.

      Quick Nicola, get an emergency Holyrood session and take over the UK 🙂

    25. galamcennalath says:

      ‘British’ and ‘Britain’ are dying brands. They mean very little now. All the publically owned UK wide companies and utilities have gone. What is left? The BBC, the military, the passports, and their Union.

      To maintain their asymmetrical Union, they need to continue the facade of it being ‘British’. They need to keep the brand alive, push it in ways it hasn’t been pushed before, have its Union Flag symbol everywhere on everything.

      This is a core objective of the BBC, and they carry out this duty relentlessly!

    26. Ron says:

      Certainly there are some whiskies I stopped referring to as Scotch, replacing with UKitch, following 2014

    27. jdman says:

      Scottie Dog says
      “For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can scotland produce all its own heat and power?
      If it can be proven that we can it makes us quite unique.”

      Yep, we can burn all the leaflets Jo Swinson (supposedly) didnt deliver! 🙂

    28. John W says:

      The mantra , too wee, too poor , too stupid , has to be put to rest once and for all , we obviously can look after ourselves . A country with a very small population size compared to the rest of the UK , that produces half of the exports of the UK , is well able to stand on it’s own two feet , time for the remaining brainwashed to realise this !

    29. winifred mccartney says:

      I was in a high street store, you know the one who thinks it is not a supermarket because it sells knickers, and thinks it is the best when I spotted BRITISH PORRIDGE OATS – did not even touch it – would have felt contaminated. I have decided I will not buy anything from Scotland, or made in Scotland that has a butchers apron on it. This apron is appearing everywhere – just another way of indoctrinating Scots – this is now psychological warfare in the MSM and on the BBC especially misreporting Scotland.

    30. SandyW says:

      Interesting contrast in the revenue brought in to Ireland for whiskey sales (£4bn for 4% of world sales) and Scotland (£2.5bn for 80% of world sales). UKOK? Don’t think so.

    31. Naina Tal says:

      Speaking to an old friend the other day. A Journalist (long retired). I was asking him what he thought of Journalism today. (He is a Unionist though not of the BritNat variety if that makes sense).
      He agreed with your comment about what is not reported.

      His other comments :
      Almost no investigation takes place
      They copy and paste from other sources and each other.
      All using the same news agency
      No Sub editors on most of the titles.

      He thought the lack of sub editors is the root of the problem. (No one with the time to do the job properly)
      Anyway that was his take.

    32. ronnie anderson says:

      Am wunnering when they will make a claim on oor Haggis exports.

    33. ScottieDog says:

      “We absolutely can – Scotland is a net exporter of electricity and (from memory) supplies about 50% of UK oil and gas, so more than self-sufficient in that too.”

      That’s my gut feel but can provide the evidence?

      We’ve allowed ourselves to be deflected by the price of units of energy measured in pounds as a metric of our economic health. Money is an accounting entriy. We’ve seen central banks print money to buy up their nation’s debt.

      Far more important to a country’s security is its food, energy and water sovereignty.

      The bigger the import need the bigger the military.

      This is a vital piece of work and it’s the basis of why the UK establishment will fight tooth and nail to keep scotland.

    34. yesindyref2 says:

      “The UK comprises four countries: UK, UK, UK and UK”.


      “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and UK”.

      Oh dear.

    35. Smallaxe says:

      Glamaig says:
      18 August, 2017 at 9:19 am
      scottieDog says:
      18 August, 2017 at 9:03 am
      “For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can Scotland produce all its own heat and power?”

      Sorry but this does not archive;

    36. Lenny Hartley says:

      Glamaig oil and gas production figures.
      In 2015-16, oil and gas fields in Scotland accounted for 96 per cent of UK crude oil and natural gas liquids (NGL) production, and 60 per cent of UK natural gas production. From

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      “The 6 Nations Rugby tournament with UK, UK, UK, UK, France and Italy”

      “The commonwealth games in which the 4 home nations of UK, UK, UK and UK will be taking part”.

      I don’t think the BBC has thought this thing through.

    38. Capella says:

      That would be British Oil and Gas Lenny.
      Soon, British Water will be worth its weight in gold, British gold.

      “Deprive the people of their national consciousness”

    39. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – I think you’ll find teamEngland has given it some thought. If Liverpool wins the venue for the next Commonwealth Games the England branch will not allow them to use the London facilities.

    40. Highland Wifie says:

      Got in just in front of you Dr Jim but glad the Rev is back.

    41. One_Scot says:

      There has clearly been an intentional push to use the phrase UK and British more and more in recent years. It is very evident in the number of adverts recently. Also the union flag is now appearing on product packaging that was never there before.

      Needless to say those adverts and products have been cut down/out from our household.

      You would be forgiven for thinking that the unionist Establishment are forcing their unionist nationalist brand on Scotland to keep her in her place.

    42. Francie Ward says:

      …. And is just one of the many reasons I tell the fearful, “we dont have to base Independence on oil.” We can go it alone just fine ….

    43. yesindyref2 says:

      Serious sugestion. Wings, Bella, Commonspace, Newsnet and all, SIC, The National, the SNP, the Greens, organise a UK week, maybe in September.

      The UK Week

      All Indy supporters, and all politicians strike out the words “Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Scottish etc”, and substitute “UK”, on their blogs, tweets, below the line postings, and public utterances, for a whole week.

      Specially when targetting the BBC.

    44. Robert Graham says:

      Predictable as usual . I think most Scots have become used to this , our great Andy Murray ets , add this to a long line of the usual grabbing it’s ours ,this is why everything mysteriously gravitates south , the main gateway for tourists , the first destination for investment and job creation by foreign companies , who gave them first dibs on everything ? . WE DID ,and compounded it in 2014 .

    45. You simply can’t have reports of successful Scottish exports, that would undermine the Britnats arguments for remaining as part of most successful union known in history.

      How often have we been told that we are only prospering thanks to Westminster looking after us.

    46. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Stu, I saw it myself this morning, and thought you’d be on it. Good lad.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      I also always enjoy eating roast beef and roast potatoes, with peas and UK pudding and gravy, or UK hotpot, followed by apple pie and UK cream, UK mess, UK cider cake.

      Can always have a UK pastie while waiting for it to cook.

      Seems the UK regions are getting restless, in that part of the UK called UK.

    48. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Stu, I saw it this morning and thought you’d be on it. Good man.

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmmm, some more:

      “Upon UK Bridge by William Wordsworth

      Earth has not anything to show more fair …”

      The Tower of UK, UK Bridge, UK cakes, UK bun, UK tart, UK cheese-cake

      We should “own” the UK for a whole week. Use “UK” so much everyone was sick of it.

    50. Marc Rich says:

      Scotland coming to the rescue of UK balance of payments.

      The pound would be in deep trouble without the food, Whisky, Oil and Salmon exports. Not to mention other things we do well, like Engineering, Financial services, Tourism.

      Its a war on two fronts. Money and politics. Its a hell of a challenge to convince Scots they can do it on their own with propaganda like this.

    51. Ian Kirkwood says:

      Noticed that this morning. Wasn’t really surprised to see the British aspect as it was a positive article. Still made me sick though and made me think about the very clear and obvious propaganda approach being undertaken by the msm with Auntie leading from the front. Counter campaign needed guys.

    52. gordoz says:

      I believe the new ‘short’ term, for scot/brit goods such as Gin is ‘Britch’ .

      The Britishing will go on!

    53. heedtracker says:

      Giant media corp belching out right wing nationalist propaganda, beeb gimp style, in the USA. Fox, Breitbart, BBC, and now the new guys. English media still believes its not right wing rule Britannia propaganda, hollow laugh.

    54. Smallaxe says:

      Capella, am I right in thinking that you have found the quote that you were looking for, well done, my friend.

    55. Albert Herring says:

      And did those feet in ancient time,
      Walk upon UK’s mountains green:
      And was the holy Lamb of God,
      On UK’s pleasant pastures seen!

      Rule UKania! UKania rules the waves!

    56. Liz g says:

      The actual 64, thousand dollar question for me is.

      Is the food in N.Ireland being packaged like this?
      If we are noticing the Union flag on everything possible,where it never was before, then surely they are too?
      Unless… Unless!!! It’s no there?

      If that is indeed the case….
      Then that could mean that this is a deliberate attempt to target Scotland and that in turn might be a breech of the human rights we have, around our culture?
      What could be done about it,if it is I don’t know!
      But it’s good to point to when canvasing,as a current example of how sleeket Westminster is.

      Jist sayin!…are we clear….jist sayin….not dominating….jist sayin.
      Also!!!! Yay I’m own a list….no The list right enough but still….yay

    57. Capella says:

      BBC R4 continue their “must include a North Britain item every day” on Today with the anniversary of the Paul McCartney hit “Mull of Kintyre”.

      A local from Campbeltown provides the necessary cringe by saying how surprised he was that something Scottish sounded so good.
      Of course, only Paul McCartney could make Scottish bagpipes sound good, you fool.

    58. Robert Louis says:

      British Scotch Salmon, British Scotch Whisky, British Scotch Haggis, British Scotch Broth, British Scotch Lamb, … well you get the idea. British cultural supremacy, in your face.

      No other country in the world would put up with this cultural genocide.

      Each example on its own seems trivial to make a big deal about ,but it is cumulative. Don’t buy such produce. If it has a union jack on it, buy from a different store/supplier. It can be done.

      I have seen people on here, saying such things are trivial, and really don’t matter, but they do, otherwise London would not be pushing suppliers so hard to do these things. It is no accident.

      If people stopped buying such trash, the manufacturers would soon stop it.

      The same thing is happening with Saltires in Edinburgh – the mysterious case of the disappearing saltires. Meadowbank has lost its saltire, but still has its apron (a rather new looking one), the Playhouse used to have a line of saltires on its roof, now replaced with non-descript ‘playhouse’ flags.

      Bit, by bit, very slowly, Scottish flags are getting removed. But we are told, such things do not matter.

      As an aside, I notice that new Vauxhall vans, all seem to have a big union jack sticker on them now, saying ‘made in Britain’ (meaning England, of course). I did think to myself, they need to supplement that sticker in time for the brexit madness, saying ‘made in Britain’, with a second one saying ‘..but not for long’.

    59. colin alexander says:

      But will also be Scotland’s debt to pay a share of the UK’s divorce bill to leave the EU, even though 2/3 in Scotland voted Remain.

      “Oh, but the majority voted to remain part of the UK and it was a UK vote to leave, so that’s fair” the Westminster brigade chant.

      Yet, people were told if they voted NO in the indyref, Scotland’s continuing membership of the EU would be guaranteed.

      But with the EUref the UK Govt refused to agree that all four constituent parts must vote to leave. It was one person one vote, with England having 10x the population of the rest approx.

      Aye, there’s lots of fishy business done by the pro-Westminster brigade and their allies such as the BBC, that disnae involve salmon farming.

    60. Mark Harper says:

      From a purely marketing perspective, I’m pretty sure the “Scottish” part of Scottish salmon is a key part of branding and it seems odd when they refer to British salmon in the article. I wonder how sales of “Scottish salmon” would compare to sales of “British salmon” for an otherwise identical product.

    61. Capella says:

      @ Smallaxe – yes thx – a number of Wingers posted links to the Heydrich quote. What I’m now trying to track down is the source of the quote. What exactly did he say and when did he say it!

      Creepily, so many aspects of the current propaganda exercise jump out as examples of the Heydrich doctrine in action. Did he learn the techniques from the British Empire?

    62. Robert Louis says:

      Does this mean Nicola Sturgeon is now the Frist Minister of Britain, or the UK First Minister.

      We should be told.

    63. heedtracker says:

      Aye, there’s lots of fishy business done by the pro-Westminster brigade and their allies such as the BBC, that disnae involve salmon farming.

      Got that right Colin A, for once:D

      BBC r4 has 7 to 10 million listeners in the UK zone. Same branch of BBC media corp gimpery is currently hard at work on their millions of UK tory ears, covering up, at least 90% behind Orange Hitler, and the US nazi resurgence. Or much like Teresa, Farage, Mike Gove, Fox, etc, as the BBC says, fcuk the EU, USA all the way, the nazi one.

      But not every hard core Cons roaster is,

      Donald Trump
      ‘No good Nazis’: James Murdoch criticises Donald Trump over Charlottesville

    64. Robert Peffers says:

      @scottieDog says: 18 August, 2017 at 9:03 am:

      “For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can scotland produce all its own heat and power?
      If it can be proven that we can it makes us quite unique.”

      What do you mean, “IF”, acottiedog?

      Scotland has long been a net exporter of food, fuel and power and the UK, as a whole, has always been a net importer of all three.

      Now that statement does not mean that Scotland does not import food, fuel and power – it is as stated, “A NET”, exporter”.

      I’ll clarify that statement – For example on food import/export. It simply means that while we do import specific food items that Scotland doesn’t produce we more than balance our food imports by exporting more than we import – that is the meaning of, “net exporter”.

      On the subject of net export of power – Scotland first began exporting electricity to England at the end of WWII when the first cross-border National Electricity grid connection went from the old Portobello Power Station across the borders into England.

      So while we do still occasionally take power from the grid at off-peak rates, (in order to pump water uphill to pumped storage hydro-systems), mostly that power now comes from Scottish based renewables like wind power.

      The point is that the pumped storage hydro is then used to provide power at peak demands at higher cost rates used at peak demand times.

      On the subject of fuels, Scotland began the oil industry with the Paraffin production from shale in the Lothians. We were already net exporters of coal. We also had the oil refinery at Grangemouth. So Scotland has always exported more fuel and power than she imports.

      The UK, on the other hand, has always been a net importer of food, fuel and power but have always, one way or another, fiddled the statistics to suit the Westminster unionist agenda.

    65. ScotsRenewables says:


      A friend of mine was on Call Kaye this morning talking about baby boxes – went to listen on IPlayer and was told I had to ‘sign in’


      “Why we’re asking you to sign in

      You now need to sign in to watch and listen to things on BBC iPlayer and iPlayer Radio. And the same goes for some other parts of the BBC. This is so we can make the BBC more relevant and personal to you.”

      Relevant and personal, yeah!

    66. Chick McGregor says:

      Decided a post I did on O/t wasn’t OT enough, so here is the link.

    67. Clootie says:

      …choked on my breakfast flakes when I seen that headline.
      Insult after insult to our intelligence and yet people continue to be conned by WE need THEM.

    68. tartanfever says:

      The BBC has had some week.

      Other people have noted other examples of of the carefully constructed BBC language and spin presented to us recently, but for me the elephant in the room has been the coverage of commemoration of India’s independence.

      Or should I say ‘partition’, because that’s exactly what we’ve been getting. According to BBC news the independence story begins and ends in 1947 when Great Britain ‘withdraws’ from the country and all hell breaks out with the creation of Pakistan and the segregation of religious groups to different lands. In other words, ‘we gave them independence and look what happened’

      I haven’t seen, heard nor read in any great detail one item from the BBC on just what led to independence in India. Think of it this way. Imagine telling the story of Indian independence and not mentioning Gandhi once. Yet, thats what I’ve witnessed in the BBC news coverage this week. It’s a bizarre exclusion.

      Maybe the next time we commemorate the end of WW1 or 2 we should start in 1919 or 1945 and pick up the story from there and forget how we got to that point. When we commemorate the end of WW2 we can start the story with the defeat of Churchill in the general election and the birth of the welfare state.

    69. colin alexander says:

      Robert Louis said:

      “Does this mean Nicola Sturgeon is now the First Minister of Britain, or the UK First Minister?”

      Nicola Sturgeon is the Office Manager of Westminster’s branch office. The Scot Govt are just administrators of WM power.

      Devolution is not Home Rule, it’s Westminster rule administered by the SNP.

      Read The Supreme Court’s ruling on the Sewel Convention if you need confirmation.

    70. Capella says:

      For example the item on Mull of Kintyre demonstrates that, although the song and the bagpipes sound good, they only sound good because a UK person has produced it. They are not good in themselves:

      “dilute their national pride”

    71. ahundredthidiot says:

      ah the great british brain wash continues………


    72. Holebender says:

      I was in Tesco in Banchory yesterday and I noticed they were selling English single malt whisky. St. George’s flag on the label and everything.

      When I say “selling” I mean offering for sale. I don’t know if they were actually selling any, but you never know, especially in Banchory.

    73. Dr Jim says:


      What you might not know though about the song Mull of Kintyre is that most of the “bagpipes” you hear in fact aren’t bagpipes at all but a synthesized replacement overdubbed later because bagpipes I’m afraid are out of tune and were very difficult to record at that time before the advent of digital technology

      Bagpipe folk will be really annoyed with me but I’m afraid it’s true and they weren’t told at the time that they were faded into the distant background or they would have been upset

      Nowadays what you do is sample the pipes and replay them on a digital keyboard because digital is perfect all the time but you can tweak the slightly out of tune bits to within tolerable levels so the human ear thinks it’s hearing what it wants to hear

      Bagpipers will be so annoyed with me, it doesn’t mean bagpipes don’t sound great though, but just with other bagpipes

    74. Robert Louis says:

      Surely somebody needs to write to Tesco, and remind them that what they are selling is in fact BRITISH English single malt whisky, and it should have a union jack on it. Just like Tesco do with Scottish produce.

    75. yesindyref2 says:

      As I posted before, my move to Indy was in 1972 when it was pointed out to me the way Scotland was portrayed in the media, specially the BBC. It was something I’d subconciously noticed, so the anger when I realised it had got by me was quite immediate.

      But for 45 years I’ve noticed and commented on the constant barrage, Scotland amtches not being on TV, “over to the England camp” half-time in a Scotland match, and yet in spite of that constant propaganda, 55% voted NO. We didn’t point ths out enough to the electorate, who for some pathetic reason, just accept it like I did before 1972.

      The Unionists made a great point in the Indy Ref campaign that it shouldn’t be about heart, it should be about head, and to a great extent YES went along with that.

      But identity is critical to the YES campaign, after all, why bother having Indy if it isn’t about Scotland?

      Yes, the economy, currency, start-up costs need to be covered in Indy Ref 2, but identity MUST be an important part.

      Scotland is Scotland, not the UK, nor just a part of it.

      All the people who have made their home and lives in Scotland are Scottish.

      The Saltire is our flag, not just YES supporters, but all of us.

      And our achievements are ours, not subsumed by the UK.

    76. heedtracker says:

      “dilute their national pride”

      English nationalism led to England voting Leave last year and that’s that, Scots have lost their EU citizenship.

      Except we are not allowed to call it English nationalism, and we are certainly not allowed to call it British nationalism but we are ofcourse called Scottish nationalist, if you wont vote tory, red and blue and for English non nationalism.

      Welcome to the wonderful wacky world of teamGB beeb gimp attack propaganda, which is NOT nationalist, at all.

    77. Free Scotland says:

      The anglicization of our media goes on and on and on. When radio Scotland is looking for expert comment on just about anything, up pops somebody with an English accent. Time for the Scottish weather forecast, and again, up pops somebody with an English accent.

      In trying so hard to sideline us, they will eventually trip over their own feet.

    78. Dr Jim says:

      Post Brexit all EU legal branding protection for manufactured items or food and drink will be rescinded enabling the UK to rebrand alter change fuck up to their hearts content any item they choose to claim as theirs or King Tuts if they so wish

      Get used to your Great British everything from Tooting with a wee red guardsman on the front and a wavy Union flag stating British made

      Scotland no more!

    79. Albert Herring says:

      @Dr. Jim

      Bagpipes aren’t out of tune (well ok, they are when I try to play them), they just use a different tuning system.

      Pianos are out of tune though.

    80. Capella says:

      @ Dr Jim – out-of-tune-bagpipes are fine with me! The BBC presenter can’t have known that otherwise he would have said so to further drive home the point.

      “emphasize their customs are primitive”

    81. Eddie Orme says:

      To add to G E Graham’s list –

      ‘There’ll always be an England.” Must have been great, as a Scot in North Africa, fighting Rommel, listening to that!

      Robin Williams, in Mrs Doubtfire, having faked a Scottish accent, saying “Well dears, back home in England.”

      Battle of Britain film – ‘Germans’ refer to England or Englanders.

      EDL – Wave a Union Flag; what does Union mean and what does the E stand for?
      (Mind you, they’re welcome to it!)

      As someone else has said, such things could be seen as petty/trivial, but, does make you wonder how Scotland is perceived overseas, but also, right here. I’ll ponder this next time I watch UK football on Match of the day! (I get that there are finial issues around that, but again, promotes an Anglocentric world view/image.)

    82. Alba Jock says:

      Just read this article and there are many well raised points on the contribution and the exemption the EBC make in their take on this British (Useless) Empire.

      45% + 3% export from this wee’, poor’, nation! Sorry conclave of the UK.

      As pointed out OIL, what about the electricity sent south, the agua, the revenue from excise on fuel. Tourism is one of the biggest attributes Scotland has along with its people whether from Scotland or other countries are most welcoming to all. PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    83. Grouse Beater says:

      GH Graham: “I’m sure readers can find plenty more.”

      And here they are…

    84. heedtracker says:

      Get used to your Great British everything from Tooting with a wee red guardsman on the front and a wavy Union flag stating British made

      Got that right.

      Arbroath Smokies, is a great case in point. Arbroath Smokies used to be produced all across England, from Nottingham to the Isle of Dogs.

      So the Arbroath Smokie producers, of Arbroath, in the Scotland region of greater England, went to the EU and got them to do their thing, just like Parma Ham producers did.

      Subsequent EU law ruling then meant that only smoked fish from Arbroath, could be called Arbroath Smokie, otherwise…

      It stuck in my mind because after it happened, neo fascists of BBC r4 sent a food programme ligger up to Arbroath after the ruling and she just sneered at the Arbroath Smokie rep, “what about all those fine English workers that will lose their jobs in Nottingham now?”

      Problem solved, Brexit style.

      It was odd that she picked Nottingham though. That beeb ligger is still the oddest of odd tory beeb gimps, to be fair.

    85. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Why do these british always claim stuff that doesnt belong to them? Cant they go and find there own resources rather than leeching of Scotland? England is basically Scotlands body and stomach.

    86. Returnofthemac says:

      The apron is everywhere,from adverts through your tv soaps. Any opportunity to throw it “in yur face” all part of the plan.

    87. K1 says:

      Ah seethe internally knowing their aim is to manufacture consent, do it for long enough, they reckon, with years of experience in deploying similar tactics to undermine self determination, they are in it for the long game wi this incessant pish.

      But? Will our Scottish salmon, renowned the world over for generations, ergo ergo…will it, now converted tae British salmon, retain it’s second tae none reputation abroad? Is that too not the point, to damage Scottish exports?

      They’re evil ah tell ye, pure fuckin’ evil in intent and deed. And oh the reach of the ‘state’ eh? They’ll huv had their private meetings carving up our resources much like they did pre Iraq before they went in, power grab disnae even describe what the establishment has in mind for Scotland. They’re softening us up wi this pish.

    88. One_Scot says:

      Can’t help from feel that if we don’t take our next opportunity to win Scotland back her Independence, Scotland and Scottishness will be purposely written out of history altogether.

    89. Jamie Arriere says:

      Another aspect of ‘British salmon’ which beggars belief is the fact that Scottish salmon smoked only in London has European PGI (Protected Geographical Indicator) status

      While Scottish salmon has its own PGI status, the only one London has for any food product is for a process on a product from a neighbouring country.

      Don’t know what happens to this after Brexit, & whether jurisdiction of the ECJ is required to enforce it, but it always made me wonder why there was so little salmon smoking up here.

    90. Edward says:

      Anyone interested, BBC Scotland News have the article on its Facebook page so all can comment accordingly 🙂
      Politely of course

    91. Fireproofjim says:

      The English make a malt whisky and so do the Welsh, but they got rather mixed reviews and I think people buy it for the shock/novelty effect. Cant imagine they export much.
      Anyway, they are quite right to label it English or Welsh as the makers are probably quite proud of their brand. Note, they never label it U.K. whisky.
      Similarly English white wine producers never label their products ( excellent, by the way) as UK wines. Quite right too.

    92. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ ScotsRenewables, re:”BBC NOW MAKING YOU SIGN IN.”

      I think, this is what is known as a compromise. If you’ve ever tried to cancel your license by phone in the past, you would eventually be asked if you had an internet connection, and were able to watch live broadcasts online. ‘What the fuck has that got to do with televisions?’ you may have been tempted to ask. And many, many people did ask, and got increasingly pissed off at TV Licensing attempting to turn a TV License into a TV AND Internet License. I would imagine a gigantic civil case was incoming which would’ve been a slippery slope for the BBC, and this sensible alternative was the way to avoid that.

      So the sign-in is a good thing, that stops the BBC being able to cast a dark shadow over every home in Britain with an internet connection. They’ll not be happy about this, of course, so expect them to try and give as much airtime as possible to people who are concerned about what is being done with their details. Your details are already known by those who’ve made the highest bids, and through whatever creepy shit Google does, so the BBC couldn’t posibly make it any worse. But they won’t do anything with the details, anyway.

      Tl;dr – Don’t worry, be happy.

    93. ClanDonald says:

      No doubt this will be one of the reasons that the UK Government research says Scotland will be worst hit when Brexit happens.

    94. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      One_Scot says at 10:14am regarding the “The intentional push to use the phrase UK and British more and more in recent years.”

      It might just be me but recently I’ve noticed a distinct switch to British/Britain rather than UK.

      Probably because the use of UK acknowledges Scotland as a partner nation and therefore an equal.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Not Scot’s salmon is er, small fry, when you’ve successfully extracted so much from one of your regions, where the locals are currently acting up a bit, at the moment, but they will be stamped out. BBC Scotland will get the SNP out and that will be that.

      Just popped up in my facebook thingee.

      “£340,000,000,000 — YES that is £340 billion in tax revenue from Scotland to Westminster!!!! Don’t try to tell us we could never manage our own Nation. What has Westminster used it for? Not to help Scotland that is for sure!!!

      Denis Healey The Labour Chancellor from 1974 -1979 admitted that they deliberately underplayed the value of oil to the UK because of the threat of the SNP. He said: ‘”I think they (Westminster politicians) are worried stiff about it”. The UK Government has taken £340 billion in tax receipts from North Sea oil, so where has it gone?

      The SNP has long advocated the creation of a Stability Fund and Savings Fund to make sure that future generations could benefit from this windfall, however Westminster did not do this.

      Take for example the foresight of our near neighbours in Norway, who set up a fund which now exceeds 905 billion dollars – that’s a total of 177,000 dollars per capita for each Norwegian citizen. Westminster now wants to set up a Sovereign Wealth Fund and while I welcome today’s debate on this, the state of the UK economy is such that it is just not going to happen in the near future.

      In Scotland we must make sure that we can return to our policies by putting mechanisms in place to support the oil industry in fiscal and regulatory regimes so that we can continue to to benefit from the oil that is there, sustaining jobs and our future prosperity.

      Westminster sat on their hands in responding to the weakness in the UK Oil and Gas industry, which could have been addressed by such a fund if it existed.

      Our priorities today must be to supporting this industry with an eye to returning to the circumstances which will allow the return to the needs of establishing an oil fund. It is just a pity that Westminster has missed so many opportunities to have done this, with Scotland really losing out.

      Thank you,

      Ian Blackford MP.

    96. A2 says:

      No mention either, that almost all of it processed by EU labour on zero hours contracts without who the industry would collapse.

    97. Les Wilson says:

      Aye my friends, they have all the tools available to keep us hog tied. Cutting the strings has to be our intention.

      Scotland would be a such better country and better place to live if we could just hold our head high by getting shot of the albatross around our neck that is the UK.

      We are a rich country but there is only one way to get to where we want to be. Independent. The rest can fend for themselves, we owe them nothing.

    98. Capella says:

      Unlike Reluctant Nationalist, I will not register my location with the BBC website. Although they probably already know, they have to pretend they don’t. So my website front page is awash with great English sporting triumphs, the latest from the English Premier league, pop stars of England and 8 things you didn’t know about something trivial.

      I only go for the Scottish headlines to see how biased they are.

      If they ever set up a proper Scottish broadcasting service, with a Scottish Six and Scottish arts, history and drama, then I might reconsider.

      “imply they have a cultural void”

    99. Juteman says:

      I shop in Tesco, and make a point of not buying anything with the Butchers Apron on it. Even if it means doing without. I try to complain about the flag to any manager in the vicinity, and I encourage everyone to do the same.

    100. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 18 August, 2017 at 10:58 am:

      “Creepily, so many aspects of the current propaganda exercise jump out as examples of the Heydrich doctrine in action. Did he learn the techniques from the British Empire?”

      Ah! Capella, I’ve been pointing out something since ever I began commenting on Wings but, like so many other things within such a complex and long running larger subject it tends to go unregistered within people’s consciousness.

      The, “Heydrich Doctrine”, has been in operation a very long time before Heydrich was born and one of the clearest proof of that statement can be detected within the real, unvarnished, history of the British Isles.

      Our written history only begins with the records of the Roman Empire and a few brief mentions in older civilisations such as ancient Greece.

      Yet the Roman history we do have is all, like British history ever since, coloured by the self interest or life experience of the authors of the histories. That life experience is often government, military, religion or academia. All little bubbles that insulate the historian from the real World of the rest of us.

      The Roman history is one where would be Roman political/military people were in Britain to enhance their self interests back in Rome and there are contemporary Roman alternative records giving a different perspective.

      So just look at how the Romans actually governed ONLY those parts of Britain where they actually were in power. They Romanised the former existing Briton leaders, setting them up in Roman Villas, and they directed those former leaders to run their bit of Britain for the Roman Governor. While the defence of their Roman Britain was handled by the Roman Legions.

      Thus the Romans were a ruling elite who did not generally interbreed, and become assimilated, into the Briton gene pool.

      When the Romans left there has been a succession of mainly Germanic Tribes as the British elitist rulers ever since. a.k.a. The British Royal Family and the hereditary peers still sitting in the HOL to this day.

      So there is the truth, (The Heydrich Doctrine), is directly lifted from the English/British/United Kingdom traditional methods that were brought to Britain by the Roman Empire.

      Need I also point out that the Roman Empire was to eventually fall but, “The Doctrine”, and how it was applied, continued under the Holy Roman Se.

      Which then was subsumed in England/Britain by the 1688, “Glorious Revolution”, that was basically when the Parliament of England used Religious Sectarianism to divide and conquer England, (and then the rest of Britain), and still is in force today. The Royals are Germanic but their power now rests in the Westminster Parliament who legally exercise the royal sovereignty throughout The United Kingdom.

    101. Juteman says:

      Never give your details on the BBC website!
      You are giving them proof that you watch live TV!
      Fuck the BBC propaganda tax!!!

    102. Macart says:

      Spooky right enough.

      Neatly done. 😉

    103. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Capella, I haven’t had a License since 2012 (and never will again) and haven’t watched TV or iPlayer since then. So I won’t be registering a location, or anything else, obvs!

      I’m liking your dark mottos of cultural oppression at the end of your posts. Liking it a lot.

    104. the tanner rocket says:

      Radio 5 News, 6:30 am “British Whisky”

    105. galamcennalath says:

      Has it not occurred to them that ‘British’ is heading to become a naff brand?

      It will become associated with a crackpot loonie state turning its back on trading with the massive EU market and then allowing itself to be flooded by dodgy imports in a quest to built new trading relationships. Regulations and standards will be swept aside in the pretence of erasing red tape from business. A basket case, certainly not a quality brand.

    106. davidbsb says:

      @ Juteman. Not just Tesco, any shop. Its kryptonite to me. My fridge is full of Scottish, German, French, Dutch etc produce, but no aprons. I will buy British/ English, Irish produce, but refuse if it has a Union Jack. A St George’s cross where appropriate is fine.

      As to “British” salmon. I only buy Scottish. I only buy Scottish when I am abroad. Some smoked here ( Morrisons does this ) is listed on the label as Scottish or Norwegian. I don’t buy that. I see Lidl salmon is Scottish but is smoked in Poland. Clearly they see some commercial benefit to playing up the fish’s home port rather than its last processing place. But if they stick an apron on it I will go without or switch to foreign.

    107. Juteman says:

      So the Catalans are about to vote on independence.
      Terrorists attack Barcelona.

    108. Vhisky says:

      hmmmm, the Guardian has added their two pennies on the beer front…. Next British kilt exports?

    109. cearc says:

      Hold on everybody. R4 has just said it is all down to the success of N. Ireland whiskey exports!

      They’ll tell us all about it when they’ve finished talking about the c*ck-up that is their childcare money help scheme. (Hi-tech seamless borders with their tech systems record?)

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker: “It might just be me but recently I’ve noticed a distinct switch to British/Britain rather than UK.

      Interesting. I’ll keep my eye open for that.

    111. heedtracker says:

      Juteman says:
      18 August, 2017 at 12:28 pm
      Never give your details on the BBC website!

      You dont need to give them your details. BT log all your web activity and then give the BBC licence people your address, if you watch any BBC produce online.

      Its quick too.

      It may be that the BBC scope your IP address, if you do go to their colossal website output and then they ask BT to give them your billing address. They clearly can’t do anything legally with static non video BBC output online viewing but live video, they sure do.

      I used to watch BBC Politics lunchtime show, with Ligger Neil says vote for your glorious Tory gods everyone, not from the house but via BT Anywhere wifi spots, local cafe.

      Almost immediately, I am now back to beeb gimps demands for their licence fee. THat’s also after having had 2 home visits from BBC licence fee non payment investigators, to check if we have tellys.

      Very nice people. They check your house thoroughly but they don’t go into bedrooms, they said, only living areas, which was odd, as people do watch still watch telly in bed?

      They explained that yes, tv’s are pc’s now and people do watch tv online today, instead of broadcast. But it makes no odds, tv’s record all broadcast history and this has to be checked too, if you tell that.

      And that, the nice tv people explained, is where the trouble starts.

      Some say just buy a web proxy but its actually a lot better for your brain, if you just do not watch beeb gimps in action, I find:D

    112. cearc says:

      Ooh, they’ve now got 4 distilleries. That’s twice as many as England (there’s one on dartmoor as well, Naina Tal). About £450m/yr. Not sure if that was just NI.

      They happily blurred the amounts involved by then talking about whiskey across the island of Ireland (16 distilleries in total) and tourist attraction of the Irish Whiskey trail.

      I’m sure that Ireland will be delighted that their sucesses are being ‘borrowed’ to talk up Britannia.

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker
      Doesn’t take long raking through what passes for my brain to realise you’re right. It’s a great British push all right.

      Scotland becomes UK, sod the Scots; UK becomes Britain, sod the Irish.

    114. Jim Morris says:

      Please excuse the scatological language, but BBC, MSM and Westminster are not just biased, they are also biarsed – one for s**t and one for bulls**t

    115. The Tanner Rocket says:

      Minor correction – just before 6:30- the punter from “Wake Up to Money”

    116. heedtracker says:

      Another interesting quote pops up in Facebook.

      George Orwell, 1984

      “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

      Ireland has certainly spent ages erasing the English names of their towns, cities, streets etc.

    117. johnj says:

      Thank goodness you’re back rev, I was beginning to worry.

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      Fruit market re-opened, with traders who were burnt out relocated to empty units and warehouse. Good for them, and the very best of Scottish luck to them.

      True Scots.

    119. Robert Louis says:

      The BBC tax really needs ended. It is utterly incomprehensible that we still have this unfair, regressive, unnecessary tax just to watch TV. They need to make it subscription, just like SKY or cable, so then people can choose.

      Of course they will never do this, since they know most Scots Welsh and N.Irish would immediately cease watching and paying for the BBC britnat English propaganda channels.

    120. scottieDog says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Thanks Robert.
      I remember the old portobello power station well.
      I’m trying to get some facts and figs – that seems to be what peoplease digest the best..
      We know that england cannot produce all its own energy but that Scotland can – several times over.
      We will soon hear, cutesy of GERS all about our supposed deficit. My point is, how can a country have such a depressed privaye sector (which is what the deficit is basically) with the export potential we have.?!

    121. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Yeah, I should’ve said, the sign-in is a good thing for people who never want to watch BBC shite again, have an internet connection, and want to cancel their license (and keep their telly in the bedroom lol).

      For those who like watching BBC shite, well…

    122. Ottomanboi says:

      The very names UK, Britain and British induce nausea. They are representive of a vocabulary which ‘denatures’ our identity. Pernicious, toxic and ‘evil’.

    123. Clapper57 says:

      Funnily enough……they are most definite in publicizing the country of production when promoting ‘British’ wine … being ENGLISH wine…..try typing in British Wine on google….and see all the references are to ENGLISH wine.

      So ……what’s theirs ENGLISH…is theirs….and what’s ours SCOTTISH… theirs too……..or rather BRITISH………same thing really…. don’t ya know.

      Wales produce wine too…..however I am sure that goes under the category of ‘British’ wine LOL…..for sure……….lloniannau (cheers in Welsh).

      As for Buckfast………

    124. remo says:

      I cancelled my BBC television tax a couple of weeks ago. I refuse to fund the BBC any more. I told them I did not want to pay for the privilege of being fed Unionist propaganda. I feel clean again.

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 18 August, 2017 at 12:48 pm:

      ” … I am now back to beeb gimps demands for their licence fee. THat’s also after having had 2 home visits from BBC licence fee non payment investigators, to check if we have tellys.”

      Whoa! Right there, heedtracker.

      The BBC themselves do not have investigators – they farm out their, (illegal), demands for payment to a private debt collecting agency. These people who have no legal right to investigate anything. Nor do they have any more legal right, than any other member of the public, than to chap your door to make contact with the occupier.

      “Very nice people. They check your house thoroughly but they don’t go into bedrooms, they said, only living areas, which was odd, as people do watch still watch telly in bed?””

      Unless they have a legally issued Search Warrant, and are accompanied by either a Police Officer or Sheriffs Agent, they are NOT entitled to do anything more than go directly to your main door to make contact with, “The Occupier”.

      If they cannot even state who, “The Occupier”, is they want to contact they will not get a search warrant issued to them.

      You now have a good genuine reason, to complain to Police Scotland that your home has been illegally searched. They, the searchers, will probably claim you agreed to be searched.

      Which you probably did when they asked but did not inform you that you could refuse.

    126. Whenever the Britnats talk about not wanting to be ruled in the EU by Germany, they either don’t know or prefer to forget their own history.

      The Nazis never had any original idea or policies of their own, they adopted them from other countries and cultures, many of them came from the British, Hitler was an anglophile.

      The level of their ignorance is astounding at times, I read in yesterday’s Courier one anti EU letter, blaming the German people for WW1,no mention was made of those who responsible for starting the war the Tsar, Kaiser, Hapsburgs were all part of queen Victoria’s family.

    127. Elaine Sk says:

      Surely it’s about time we mass protested this theft of Scottish made products and renaming it British. If we don’t do something now to waken up everyone and the world what the power in England are doing, eroding everything to do with name of Scotland and Scottish.

    128. Artyhetty says:

      Aye, it’s an important facet of the UKOK propaganda tool, wipe out the name, ‘Scotland’ whereever possible. We all know that it’s a case of, ‘what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine’ when it comes to ‘pooling & sharing’ in this arrogant, selfish, bullying, scheming, construct called the UK.

      They are using ‘Britain’ now though, even ‘produced in the UK’ is old fashioned. Bought potatoes, they didn’t have my usual, nice Ayrshire, Scottish ones, they give you an alternative in an online shop. The bag was covered with the butchers apron, felt sick, looked at where they were from, Scotland, though it said ‘British’ on the pack. It’s becoming creepy.

    129. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Cultural and resource based theft is what the british aka english elite specialize in. Time to wake up and smell the coffee cringers, and make a better Independent Scotland in the EU for ourselves rather than being tied to the increasingly redundant ramshackle remnants of the UK union, which has had its time.

    130. Effijy says:

      For Goodness sake could it be that the Salmon don’t know that Labour Stole 6,000 square miles of Scottish Maritime waters
      on behalf of Westminster.

      These creatures are swimming around thinking that they are still Scottish.

      Something Fishy on a grand Scale whenever Scotland is being robbed by the English Parliament.

      Two Fish Fingers to the lot of them!

    131. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      18 August, 2017 at 1:21 pm
      @heedtracker says: 18 August, 2017 at 12:48 pm:

      But the investigators are only doing a low pay menial job Rab. Its the Law, all part of what Scots voted Naw Thanks for.

      Someone has to do the dirty work for beeb gimpery.

      Also, bar the US, virtually every western democracy has a tv licence/tax. Germany for example pays near double what we have to, for our strange 400,000+ tory beeb gimp network.

      BBC is clearly infiltrated completely and permanently by planet toryboy, in every way, news, politics, drama, comedy, satire(none)

      A tory roaster like Nic Robinson is the most public BBC display of their tory confidence, media corp wise, and in which the tory creeps now swing free across the whole UK media. But wheezy odl Nic has competition too, from Murdoch henchman like Ligger Neil and his amazing hair doos.

      BBC Scotland is only really interesting toryboy wise, in that they are desperately trying to take out the SNP, using both SLabour and Colonel Ruth’s Scotch tories.

      Its a balance that Pacific Quay gimp network only really get away with because the Scottish press do exact same style of vote UK propaganda, in Scotland, as a region.

    132. Artyhetty says:

      re; R Peffers@1.21
      and Heedtracker


      You can have 10 televisions in your house, if you don’t watch ‘live’ tv on any ‘device’, and don’t do iplayer, you don’t need to buy a license. Simple. I let them in once to see our aerial is not connected, since then, I send their letters back, saying they would have to pay me to watch their biased, anti Scottish crap! If ever they came to my door again, I would be threatening them with the law!

    133. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – it’s quite possible that the Heydrich Doctrine, variations of, was first produced by the Romans. English public school Latin texts may well have contained useful advice for the budding imperialist.

      @ Reluctant Nationalist – I’m using Heydrich quotes in context. Still a few more to go.

      “do not teach their history”

    134. Sarah says:

      Not O/T, sadly. From George Orwell “The English People” 1944.

      “We don’t, in fact, know what settlement the English common people would make with India if the decision were theirs. All political parties and all newspapers of whatever colour have conspired to prevent them from seeing the issue clearly.”

      This is exactly the position Scotland is in.

    135. Meg merrilees says:

      Marie Clark

      Heard an item on the Colonial Broadcasting Corporation this morning about irish Whiskey production taking off in N. Ireland.
      They’ve taken £450 million in sales recently and plan to ultimately sell more than Scotland.
      Apparently prior to the 1st WW more Irish whiskey than Scottish was sold on the east coast of the US.

      Ironically the producer being interviewed then referred to the product as ‘Scotch’.

      Think we need to learn from the NTS and trademark ‘Scotch’ and ‘Scottish’ to ensure that ONLY those products made here can be described as such and at ALL times.

      After all Champagne is Champagne whether you buy it in France or Timbuktoo.


      Yesindy ref 2

      The prophets of doom must be spitting this morning as we were supposed to experience disruption to our fruit and veg distribution for weeks now as we’re too wee, too stupid and too incompetent to think of and implement a solution any quicker. Well done all concerned.

    136. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Capella

      Ah, of course. That reminds me – I’ve got to get round to watching Anthropoid.

    137. heedtracker says:

      Yesindy ref 2

      The prophets of doom must be spitting this morning

      Giant Daily Heil Scotland bad thing this week, Scottish midgies will be the worst ever, ever, ever, in Scotland, this summer.

      Why would those britnat fascists be so hell bent on damaging tourism to Scotland?

      We could all watch beeb Scotland gimps trying to harm tourism to Sky lately but why are they doing though?

      Edinburgh festival is probably the biggest in the world today, earning more than hosting a soccer World Cup tournament. Have beeb gimps ever included the word Scotland in our capital city Edinburgh’s world famous festival?


    138. Clydebuilt says:

      ScotRenewables @11.06am

      last time I was on I player it was possible to get past the login without logging in , However the video is restricted to a reduced frames per sec, the audio is fine . . . Assuming if you login video is fine?

    139. Marie Clark says:

      We cancelled the BBC tax just after the referendum, wrote and told them why, withdrew their right of access, and we’ve had nae bother since. They write to us every couple of years to see if we now require a licence, to which the answer is a very loud naw.

      If any of theses chancers appear at our door, they’ll be given their marching orders tut suit.

      As for the creeping butchers apron on products, well I just refuse to buy them. Tesco ( not that I shop there often) are good at that. I was with my husband one day and he went to lift a punnet of strawberries withe the butchers apron on it. I said to him ” pit that back”, “whit fur” says he, I’m no ha’en that bloody flag, away and look for the yins wae the Saltire oan”. So he did just that. I noticed quite a few folk doing the same. I’d rather dae withoot than buy onything wi that damned flag oan it.

    140. Marie Clark says:

      @ Meg merilees, ah the good old Colonial Broadcasting Corporation, tell you any rubbish and expect you to believe it.

      So Irish Whiskey, is going to outsell Scotch is it, I dream on boys, dream on.There’s a long road to go before that happens, but then we must support our wee loyalist DUP, we need them to stay in power.

      It’s getting really, really tedious now this utter claptrap. It wid gie ye the dry boak.

    141. mike cassidy says:

      Talking of exports –

      Here – to put it mildly – is an alternative view of Scottish Wind Power.

    142. heedtracker says:

      Marie Clark

      Just tell them what you think. Morrisons do delicious filled doughnuts and they used to sell them in union jack decorated boxes of five, salted caramel, the best.

      We all kept complaining to them here and they are now no longer sold in union jack boxes, at that store.

      It was also a great chance to chat up the stunning customer service lady;D

      One of the managers said that each Morrisons bakery can choose how to bake and display their produce and that its possible they just ran out of union jack doughnut boxes.

      Even so, they do listen, just be nice about it.

      Money is money.

    143. donnywho says:

      A few days ago when the glorious BeeB were announcing the A level results they noted that in England there was more choice for Students applying for University.

      Translated into Plain tongue this meant that there was a fall in applicants and therefore student numbers.

      Now if student numbers fell in Scotland would this be presented as an opportunity?

      I would guess that the The Mail would run for days with the Scottish Government failing the people.

      As it was several papers commented on the increase in places won for the poorest in society, as pressure on the Middle class student places.

      Propaganda is ridiculous

    144. Brian Powell says:


      Until the Clearances midges weren’t the problem they are now. Most of the Highlands was cultivated in some way so there weren’t the breeding grounds for midges.

    145. heedtracker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      18 August, 2017 at 2:25 pm

      Its doesnt explain why beeb and Heil gimps are trying to damage Scottish tourism like this.

      Anyway the Med had serious mosquito problems in what are now the biggest European sunspot tourist destinations. But this is all post WW2, in Med countries like Italy and Spain, where they confronted their mosquito problems and who are also probably not plagued by gimps like those in Pacific Quay today.

    146. One_Scot says:

      It is good to read that people are choosing not to buy products and challenging companies pushing the union flag. I have contacted a few companies about the design changes to their products and told them that if I wanted a corrupt union flag on my items I would let them know.

      I also refused to buy a picture of my children on a Blackpool Pleasure Beach ride because they could not give me it without the union flag being all over it. Apparently, it is a new thing they have introduced.

      The bottom line is this, if we do not let them know, they will not change their way, and even if the don’t, at least they know that their union flag agenda is costing them money.

    147. Irish whiskey production took a battering in early part of 20th Century because of their quest and realisation to be free from Westminster control,

      in a fit of pique or `British values` Westminster banned its sale in GB and the UK commonwealth/empire,

      it is only now recovering with more and more distilleries opening up,

      with Scotland being dragged out of Europe and the ending of free trade with 27 European countries and another 5 waiting on membership this could give Irish whiskey a massive advantage for sales in Europe,

      leaving the EU trading block will send Scottish whisky and our other world famous products into decades of decline and elimination.

    148. yesindyref2 says:

      Thing is of course that Scottish Salmon is a brand, and so is Scottish Whisky. It’s a brand that sells the product, and MAKES MONEY.

      So if that brand is cheapened or lost, the Scottish salmon producers and Scottish whisky producers will sell less, make less profit, lose their bottom line, lose jobs, and lose their livelihood.

      So it’s up to the Scottish Whisky Association and the Scottish Salmon Producers Organisation to protest to the BBC, government, media, whoever will listen, regardless if they are run by strong NO-voting unionists.

      That’s if they want to represent their members’ interests, and their members’ bottom line.

      I wait in eager expectation.

    149. Brian Powell says:


      There is one explanation and that is that the UK Government directs BBC news,after all Gardham, formerly of the Herald, went to work for Mundell, so the movement from media to Government and visa versa is likely. Even directly linked!

      BBC personal were vetted by the security forces in the past.

    150. Dan Huil says:

      Boycott britnat media. Don’t pay the bbc tax. Boycott all foodstuffs polluted by the Butcher’s Apron.

    151. This week I was entertained by the BBC reporting on cities in the United Kingdom afflicted by gangs perpetrating sex crimes. The cities were all in England but were always identified as being British ir in the United Kingdom. Mentions of England = 0
      What’s the point in having colonies of you can’t share the blame.

    152. Flower of Scotland says:

      I’ve been pointing out on Facebook and twitter to those that say UK as a nation or country, that it is not.

      By courtesy of Mr Peffers, I’ve been pointing out that the UK is a Union of two Kingdoms, one being England, Wales and N Ireland and the other is Scotland.

      To be fair, I’ve not had any abuse so far and I’ve been posting this for about a year.

      Maybe others are doing the same. Saying British is more difficult.

      I don’t buy anything with a Union flag on it! I can easily get substitutes. I’d rather buy foreign.

    153. Ronnie says:

      I noticed when driving past RMS Discovery in Dundee the other day that it now sports a giant union flag, so large that it would make an orange lodge jealous. It’s almost like a political statement is being made. Perish the though.

    154. Valerie says:

      @ Reluctant Nationalist

      You MUST watch Anthropoid, it’s a cracking film, very moving.
      I love Cillian Murphy, as an actor. Recently discovered him in Peaky Blinders, and just binge watched the lot.

    155. Andy-B says:

      I think we all know that a independent, and competitive Scotland would see England’s economy be that little bit less profitable.

      Giving all our income to Westminster, and receiving pocket money in return suits Westminster too a tee. Lets not even mention Trident.

    156. heedtracker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      18 August, 2017 at 2:59 pm

      No doubt. But tories recruit tories and on it rolls.

      Beeb Scotland SNP bad attack propaganda leads the whole Scots press industry, endlessly monstering/ignoring everything SNP Scots gov does.

      But underlying all that endless monstering, beeb Scotland gimps also have to keep telling us just how really shite Scotland is, but only with an SNP Scots gov.

      Which is why same beeb gimps in Pacific will literally use anything at all, to make look Scotland look like shite, with SNP Holyrood. So BBC Scotland says Sky is now full up so dont go there, to their bizzaro world of climate change denier style, green energy is very very bad news.

      We have to assume that with such well funded and dominant BBC attack propaganda, beeb Scotland will eventually get unionists back in to govern Scotland again.

      Once BBC Scotland does succeed in that mission, everything Scotland wont suddenly transform itself into being Scotland’s great, you must visit soon… this is the creep show that vomited Rab C Nesbit all over us, as working class Glasgow collapsed into chronic poverty, but it will alter their Scotland’s a dump tone.

      You simply cant have a region of greater England getting above itself, outside the M25.

    157. Valerie says:

      In Edinburgh yesterday, I felt I was seeing the Butcher’s Apron from every high structure!

      The Galleries right on Princes Street sported 2, and 1 Saltire at the end.

    158. I heard a report on the radio yesterday that britains largest ship had arrived at its home base Portsmouth and one woman said it is great to be British does anyone know where this ship Queen Elizabeth came from or who built it ??? The bbc never mentioned it once

    159. Vestas says:

      @ heedtracker 1:41 pm :

      “Robert Peffers says:
      18 August, 2017 at 1:21 pm
      @heedtracker says: 18 August, 2017 at 12:48 pm:

      But the investigators are only doing a low pay menial job Rab.”

      Ummm not if they meet their sales targets they’re not.

      Dunno about Scotland but in England they work for Crapita & if they meet their monthly scare/sales targets they’re on £35k+ per year. Even if they don’t they’re on a basic of £22k which isn’t that bad for ill-educated thugs is it?

    160. Jack Murphy says:

      OT.The BBC. A quiet day at work and it’s a Friday,so I’ll just leave this here. 🙂

      “BBC Newsnight host Evan Davis has admitted that although his employer receives thousands of complaints about alleged editorial bias, producers do not act on them at all……..”

    161. Alex Clark says:

      @mike cassidy

      That’s not a website I think I’ll be spending much time on if their output is as typical as what is on show on their homepage. Still worth keeping an eye on how others see what the UK means to them. Another of their articles from today.

      Why foodbanks are a conservative triumph By Tim Worstall

      “Tim Worstall is senior fellow at the Adam Smith Institute”

      That’ll be the well respected “independent” think tank that were often quoted during the run up to the Referendum as too how an Independent Scotland would be a basket case. Their Mission statement:

      Central to our mission is our belief that free markets work best for the poor. No system has raised people out of poverty and given them the freedom to live their lives as they wish like free markets have, and in politics today it is usually the poorest people who bear the brunt of the government’s worst policies in areas like education, health and welfare. Our mission is to use free markets to end poverty in Britain and around the world

    162. clipper says:

      Going to phone up to cancel my tv licence any day now. I’ve been paying £3 cash weekly with a card so it’s not a DD situation. Just going to tell them that tv’s all crap now and that the type of stuff I watch is all repeats. As for bbc I’ll tell them that it doesn’t reflect reality in Scotland so bye bye bbc.

      Noticed what someone said upthread about internet connections, glad to be forewarned about that, I’ll just tell them I don’t have one.

      Also someone mentioned something about “withdrawing right of access.” How can I implement that during the cancellation process over the phone?

      Going out now so will have to check for replies tomorrow.

    163. heedtracker says:

      TGIF indeedee

      OT.The BBC. A quiet day at work and it’s a Friday,so I’ll just leave this here.

      Young Scots, talking about Scotland’s incredible and extraordinary past, as its all airbrushed away by UKOK unionists.

    164. Spey says:

      Interesting given that Scottish salmon has geographical protected status by UK and EU

    165. McBoxheid says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      18 August, 2017 at 10:04 am

      “The 6 Nations Rugby tournament with UK, UK, UK, UK, France and Italy”

      “The commonwealth games in which the 4 home nations of UK, UK, UK and UK will be taking part”.

      I don’t think the BBC has thought this thing through.

      Will they be selling butterscotch flavoured onythin’ or will it be butterUK? Shortened to ButtUK.

    166. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the Lib Dems are in the spotlight again. For a such a small party they don’t have manage to get embroiled in a lot of scandals.

      I used to think of them as the Nice party but they are anything but. From historic sex abuse, poisonous leaflets, lying and fiddling they really are a shower.

    167. Liz g says:

      Does anyone know what it was that caused the Calman Commission to be formed.
      What was the trigger for it?
      Thanks in advance

    168. asklair says:

      I understand and totally agree with the point being made here. In my opinion is that Salmon production in Scotland is wrong and not sustainable. Look into who owns the companies and the damage being done to our ecosystem by their actions and you may end up agreeing with this view too.

    169. Fireproofjim says:

      The imminent departure of the U.K. from the EU will immediately give Irish whiskey a 20% tariff advantage over Scotch whisky in the EU.
      500 million potential customers yet this utterly stupid government are prepared to destroy successful industries in pursuit of narrow insular Britnat politics.
      We must get out.

    170. Dorothy Devine says:

      Valerie , is Edinburgh happy NOT to be the capital of Scotland , which is why it would fly the union flag.

      Perhaps someone should inform them they are rapidly becoming a non capital!

    171. Alastair says:

      A question of leadership .
      Every great cause be it politics, war, business ,social change, science , exploration needs strong,forthright ,consistent,endearing,conviction Leadership.
      So Scotland where is that leader?
      We need someone soon. The movement can support the right person. A croud funding would easily financialy support the commitment for the time scale needed.
      We have lots of so well intentioned people steering the rudder from the back of the ship but what we need now is a figurehead pointing the way and pulling a Nation to Independence.

    172. Hamish100 says:

      The Scots battle of Largs – defeating the Vikings before we were attacked by the English is commemorated at the upcoming Viking festival with its increasingly British military and Brit flags only. It seems to be the way. We don’t exist.
      Taking the grand weans wi our saltires!

    173. shug says:

      I was talking to a no voter the other day and she started bashing on about how Margaret Thatcher was right and we should be putting Britain first
      Jock Holm syndrome at its best and too much bbc
      I had to punch myself
      How do you address such ingrained unionism

    174. Legerwood says:

      Liz @ 4.24

      The Calman Commission was set up in 2008 so I guess the trigger for it was the SNP win in the 2007 Holyrood Election and forming a minority government at Holyrood.

      Calman was the brainchild of the Unionist parties.

    175. annie says:

      Wasn’t Calman set up to look at more powers for the Scottish Parliament. Even then most of the proposals were watered down or dismissed. Much like the Smith Commission which came after 2014 referendum.

    176. Cactus says:

      The BBC is the BCC…

      The British Broadcasting Corporation is,

      The British Controlling Corporation.

      It aint no blind carbon copy, strictly speaking.

      Border check ok.

    177. heedtracker says:

      I used to think of them as the Nice party but they are anything but. From historic sex abuse, poisonous leaflets, lying and fiddling they really are a shower.

      They’re tories, is all you need to say really.

      From Paddy Pantsdown, via the living horror that was Cyril Smith, to what on earth it was Jeremy Thorpe was up to. You can do this all day, with google, UK politicians, sex scandals and peadophiles,

      Imagine a world of devoid of beeb gimpery and their endless vote tory hardsell.

    178. Alex Clark says:

      The Tory party and their sick ideology are Scotland’s real enemy. It is they that keep us shackled to the Union to protect their own wealth, status and privilege.

      95% of Tory voters in Scotland voted NO in the referendum in the belief that they were protecting their own interests. These people really don’t care for anything other than themselves.

      Greedy and grasping, most worship the ground Maggie Thatcher spat on. Ruth Davidson is their new acolyte and the BBC for them speaks only the truth. Ex-Labour voters who turned to the Tories in 2017 for the sake of the Union. Take they blinkers off and find out more about exactly what it is you are voting for before it’s too late.

    179. Robert Louis says:

      Alex Clark at 352pm,

      Was it not Alex Salmond who said something like (I paraphrase) ‘If Adam Smith could see what has been done with the Adam Smith Institute, he would be birling in his grave’

      It no more represents the thinking of Adam Smith than any other neo liberal mouthpiece – and Adam Smith was no neo liberalist. Indeed he stated, I believe, in ‘The Wealth of Nations’ that unfettered capitalism, was a very bad thing. All markets require checks and balances, with regulatory input. Even he understood that. But you won’t find the Adam Smith Institute citing that particular section anytime soon.

      Neoliberals, pick and choose how they use Smiths work.

    180. bjsalba says:

      @tartanfever at 11:15am

      I think you might find this interesting.


    181. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 18 August, 2017 at 1:41 pm:

      “But the investigators are only doing a low pay menial job Rab. Its the Law, all part of what Scots voted Naw Thanks for.
      Someone has to do the dirty work for beeb gimpery.”

      No, heedtracker, it is not the law, at least it is not the law of Scotland and I assume you live in Scotland.

      There is no English style law of Trespass under Scottish law. Furthermore, both the people officially allowed to legally enter your home without your permission and those who can be authorised by the law of Scotland to obtain a search warrant are different under Scottish and English law. (Thank you Tommy Sheridan).

      Here’s a cite:-

      Then there is this:-

      You should know me well enough by now that I do not claim something without researching it first or, if I do I tell that I’m working only from memory. Scots law protects personal privacy of people and their dwellings. The basis of this law is that the people of Scotland are sovereign and thus own Scotland. In the three kingdom of England countries the crown, and thus the government, own the Kingdom of England, “and all who sail in her”.

      In essence what the law says is that under English law the sovereign, (that is legally the Queen), owns the Kingdom of England and everyone in it. Thus the law has the right to enter or search any home or any of Her Majesty’s subjects.

      In Scotland the people, and not either the Queen of Scots or the state, owns Scotland and as the police serve the sovereign people they have no right to search as they have in the English kingdom. The law, though, can authorise searches but that law is far more stringent than in England.

      The truth is that if the BBC debt collectors even conned you into allowing them access to your home THEY not you are breaking the law.

      Furthermore, there is no requirement under the law to tell the BBC anything. Neither is it against the law to own TVs or computers able to show live TV broadcasts.

      On the subject of access to a Scottish person’s home, while Scots law has no English style of Trespass law, it does have laws to protect personal privacy.

      Cold callers, and that includes the BBC debt Collectors, who do not even know the person’s name and thus direct letters to, “The Legal Occupier”, only have a right to enter a garden or yard in order to get to the main door to contact an, unknown to them, person. However they must stick to the main direct path and not perv through windows or search anything while doing so.

      If they do so they break the law. They must also leave immediately if requested to do so and the police can be called to remove them if they refuse.

      Another fact is that if you post a notice, at for example your garden gate, that says something like No Cold Callers anyone with no proper business is breaking the law. The old Scots style notice was, “No Hawkers”.

      So there you go. Not only are the BBC debt collectors guilty of, “coercion”, if they threaten you with legal action without evidence that you are actually watching live TV but they break the law if they enter your property and carry out, “Investigations”, without the benefit of a search warrant and either a Police Officer or a Sheriff’s Officer, ( bailiff), in attendance.

      Here’s a cite:-

      In fact the BBC are really just ignoring Scots law and attempting to apply the laws of England under the almost certain knowledge that most Scots don’t know the difference, and like you, let them in.

      You have no legal duty to do anything more with these people than request, politely. that they leave at once. If they do not leave or you can prove they did more than just enter the property and go directly to chap the main door to contact, “The Legal Occupier”, then call the police.

    182. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Louis says:

      … Alex Salmond … Adam Smith …

      Apparently a US senator asked Alex Salmond to explain why Adam Smith’s home is so left wing. Alex replied, “In Scotland, we read that book to the end”.

    183. heedtracker says:

      Alex Clark says:
      18 August, 2017 at 5:03 pm
      The Tory party and their sick ideology are Scotland’s real enemy.

      Its not just Scotland though. This is how BBC r4 tory creeps have been reporting Mrs May’s bestie Orange Hitler and Charlottesville. Great British tory bbc propaganda doesnt get much creepier than this, but ofcourse it can and does.

      As we’re continually reminded, its always that tory headline that counts.

      US & Canada


      Trump defends ‘beautiful’ Civil War statues
      17 August 2017
      From the section US & Canada

      How Orange Hitler is actually reported in the US, except its not a news channel.

    184. Robert Louis says:

      Here’s how I judge flags etc on food/products/anything.

      Butcher’s apron on, it doesn’t get purchased – no exceptions. That flag is a disgrace and an insult in Scotland. Scotland produce, preferably clearly stating from Scotland is what I prefer, mainly to support local (Scottish farms etc).

      If I were to see something like a cornish pastie, made in Cornwall, and it had a butcher’s apron, it would get put back, if it had made in England on it or the English flag, I would have no problem ( I don’t mind the English taking pride in their English flag etc) – but a straight choice between Scot or English, I would buy local (Scottish).

      If their is no alternative other than something covered in the union jack, I will prefer to buy from any other country/another shop.

      It is as simple as that.

      It is interesting to note that EU headquartered supermarket chains like LIDL and ALDI, have no problem filling shelves with Scottish produce, with only a rare union jack on show. They seem to get it, and they know it affects their bottom line. The English run supermarkets, which is pretty much all the rest, seem obsessed with stacking shelves in Scotland full of stuff covered in union jackerry British nationalist nonsense, with the occasional ‘token’ Scottish item.

    185. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Who do you think you are kidding Mrs May if you think old Scotlands done/down? Play em at their own game.

    186. Robert Louis says:

      galamcennalath at 529pm

      Excellent line, regarding Adam Smith. Mister Salmond never disappoints. Looking forward to seeing his show, for which I have some highly coveted tickets… 🙂

    187. Chick McGregor says:

      I used to have this little thing where whenever I saw a Union Flag in Scotland I would quietly sign a Saltire cross on my chest. Made me feel better.

      Couldn’t do it these days. RSI guaranteed very quickly.

    188. Alex Clark says:


      Apparently a US senator asked Alex Salmond to explain why Adam Smith’s home is so left wing. Alex replied, “In Scotland, we read that book to the end”.

      Now that did make me laugh 🙂

    189. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees
      Sorry for the delay, finally got my mind around tackling a nasty tricky job, successfully so far!

      Must admit I didn’t think it would be back till Monday, the firefighters and the arms-length Glasgow council mangement company worked miracles it seems. Absolutely brilliant. I might phone my suppliers next week to see how they’re doing and wish them all ra best, if the landlines are reconnected or redirected. Wee tear in the e’e. They’re an inspiration. Glasgow at its best.

    190. yesindyref2 says:

      Even better, I’ll send them a card.

    191. HUGH KIRK says:

      Will ye never see the demise of the famous Scotch egg, the magnificent Scotch pie and the mysterious Scotch mist…

    192. Robert Peffers says:

      @mike cassidy says: 18 August, 2017 at 2:15 pm:

      “Talking of exports –
      Here – to put it mildly – is an alternative view of Scottish Wind Power.”

      You are right it is a load of claptrap.

      In truth they pay far more subsidy to gas, coal and nuclear generators than to all the renewable generators put together.

      However these bullshitters will not tell you the reasons why the generating companies are all paid for NOT generating power.

      The reason being that it is a very difficult and complex task to load balance the National grid. Electricity does not behave like water in a pipe.

      The electric appliances draw the power as and where it is needed and you need to reduce the current to suit the load. Yet you cannot just turn off a nuclear reactor or re-start it in an instant. Nor can you do so with coal and to a lesser extent some oil fired system. The only form of oil fuelled generation that is suitable is diesel as that powers an engine or a turbine.

      If you use oil to heat a boiler then you cannot start it up in an instant.

      So the renewables are ideal for quick stopping and starting.

      So, imagine the situation of an England Vs Scotland Football match on the BBC TV network and something like Strictly on another channel and a top pop-star making a rare appearance on another.

      Half-time in the football coincides with the end of the other programmes and most of the UK goes to the kitchen to make their evening meal.

      There is a massive surge in demand for electricity and generators have to start up all over Britain. That is why they pay producers to be ready to go at an instant but not actually generating power. They are in fact also paying them to be able to shut down in an instant.

      They are not just paying them to do nothing – they are paying them to balance the load. That is a rather simplified explanation but it should give an idea to those who have never given it much thought.

    193. gus1940 says:

      As Victor Meldrew was wont to say ‘I don’t believe it’.

      A while ago on perusing various news sites I learned that Bruce Forsyth had died.

      This led me to wonder how The Haw Haw Broadcasting Corporation would treat it on the 6pm national news – surely given the events of the last 24 hours in Catalonia, this afternoon’s attack in Finland and Steve Bannon’s reported departure from The White House Asylum they surely wouldn’t lead the bulletin with Brucie’s death.

      How wrong I was – not only did it lead the bulletin but it took up the first 8 minutes.

      I despair at what The BBC has become – not just at the political bias but the relentless dumbing down of what was once an institution which most of us used to admire.

    194. Cactus says:

      Yeah, less and less people are now taken in and suckered by the BBC news like they used to be. People are cancelling and turning off.

      It’s these less and less people that now need to learn to be with the more and more. Afterawe, we’re awe JT’s bairns!

      Said in the best Nicholas Cage voice.. “put the douche down”
      I rather not travel with CON Air, I’ll go SCO Air everytime.

      Nice to see you.

    195. Dave McEwan Hill says:


      I nearly fell off my camel. I sneaked a peak at the Express letters page and it had published my letter about the aircraft carrier (without the end bit about getting out of bonkers Britain).

    196. Cactus says:

      My bad, he be Nicolas Cage.

      Here’s a clip about a bunny:

    197. gus1940 says:

      It would appear that Eck’s Fringe Show has proved to be too popular with too much public interest being shown in it leading to what appears to be a blackout by our colonialist media.

      We were told of the appearance of David Davies, Elaine Smith and john Bercow but total silence on who his guests have been for the last 2 days. Who were they?

      RE 6pm news they managed to squeeze in another couple of minutes of Brucie at the end leaving no time for the Weather Forecast.

      Oh no – Weetabix Face on Misreporting Scotland excreting his words of wisdom on NS’s comments on the SNP’s name.

    198. TheWasp says:

      The mental weetabix featuring on misreporting as a “commentator”

    199. Andy-B says:

      BBC Scotland news intimating that Turkish nationalism, and the alt-right nationalism in Charlottesville, are loosely compatible to Scottish nationalism.

      Surprisingly David Torrance who appears in the reports doesnt think Scottish nationalism is anthing like the other forms mentioned.

    200. Tam the Bam. says:


      On the thinnest of premises (Nicola would not have chosen the name SNP )…Misreporting Scotland manage to afford David ‘nose
      severely out of joint’ Torrance .. a platform for him to mump his gums.

    201. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Wonderful example of BBC bias there in BBC Shortbread’s report on Nicola Sturgeon’s: “I’d change the party’s name if I could” remark.

      When David Torrance comes across as the voice of moderation and reason, you know BBC Shortbread was trying to do another “SNP Baaaddd!!” story.

      I always felt Bruce Forsyth’s talents were somewhat over-rated, but, even if he had been as good as the Beeb seems to think he was, eight minutes at the top of the News is just too-much.

    202. Cactus says:

      Aye, ye can almost see the whites of their eyes.

      We’re at “half moon” the now y’all.

      BBC full moon coming soon.

      Higher or lower?

    203. Dan Huil says:

      Imperialist implication. Another sign of blatant bbc bias it seems. Who do they think they’re fooling? Only themselves. Don’t pay the bbc tax. It’s getting to them, and it shows.

    204. Legerwood says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      18 August, 2017 at 6:21 pm

      I nearly fell off my camel. I sneaked a peak at the Express letters page and it had published my letter about the aircraft carrier (without the end bit about getting out of bonkers Britain).


      The Herald published your letter as well but not the last bit.

    205. Alex Clark says:

      Just started with Wings DJ Dave McEwan Hill broadcasting live from radio Argyle.

      Worth a blast if you like 70’s and 80’s music.

    206. Cactus says:

      Cheers for the heads up Alex, I’ve been meaning to listen in.

      Cheers tae ye DJ Dave.

      “Freak out!” ~ top tune.

    207. Meg merrilees says:

      Dave Mc Ewan Hill

      Presume you already know your letter was published in the National as well…

    208. Louis says:

      To scottieDog, you said “For me the 64000 dollar question should be – can scotland produce all its own heat and power?
      If it can be proven that we can it makes us quite unique.” here’s a link to said question


    209. Dek says:

      Why doesn’t Torrance debate O’Hagan ? I would pay to see that.

    210. yesindyref2 says:

      Bruce Forsyth was a gent. RIP.

      Nice to see you, to see you …

      OT. Talking about nice, nice to see OBE back on the Herald. He always was easy to run rings around. Could be his bullish nature, or something to do with bull.

    211. donald anderson says:

      This is as daft on books on British whisky and British Munros, etc.

    212. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Dek: “Why doesn’t Torrance debate O’Hagan ? I would pay to see that.

      That would give Torrance credibility he doesn’t merit. With O’Hagan and Torrance, one’s a shiny writer the other’s a …

    213. heedtracker says:

      BBC stuff is very border divided.

      This would never be broadcast by Pacific Quay for example,

      World’s first floating wind farm emerges off coast of Scotland
      By Roger Harrabin
      BBC environment analyst, Norway
      23 July 2017

      From the Business section of beeb gimpland,

      From their Scottish haha section,

      Scots offshore wind ‘pretty much dead’, former minister claims
      20 July 2016

      A former energy minister has claimed “offshore wind in Scotland is pretty much dead” after a legal challenge against four major projects.

      A judge upheld RSPB Scotland’s challenge to consent for turbines in the Firth of Forth and Firth of Tay.

      Brian Wilson said the charity now “hold all the cards” over the schemes, which were to include hundreds of turbines.”

      What ever happened to that yoon roaster Brian:D

      That first beeb thing is also in their science section, but nowhere near their Scotch section.

      Maybe its because all those giant floating turbines might well have been built in Scottish lochs, if only we were an nation again.

    214. Cactus says:

      Is that that BBCC trying tae punt that Tribish Salmon stuff again?!

      “Salmon sales surge as Scottish food exports hit record high”

      “Sales of Scottish Salmon helped the UK export a record amount of food and drink in the first half of the year, according to industry figures”

      Nothing for a pair in this game.

    215. yesindyref2 says:

      @donald anderson
      Almost as daft as the British Museum which probably has most of its stuff stolen from the four corners of the planet.

    216. ScottieDog says:

      @Robert Louis
      Regarding Adam smith you’re right.
      His output was bastardised by the neoliberal movement. His reference to ‘free market’ meant free from banks (unearned income) and the rentier class who actually destroy GDP. Not free from government regulation.
      This talk by economist Michael Hudson is very interesting. He exposes the myth that somehow the banking sector is additive to GDP. The city of London is a parasite…

    217. cearc says:

      R4 PM was about 50% the Brucie show. Obviously nothing happening in the world if a (in my opinion) rather creepy and irritating tv person takes up so much news time.

      Dave M-E-H, congratulations, more power to your keyboard.

    218. Tam the Bam. says:

      heedtracker @ 7-36pm

      ‘Whatever happened to yon Yoon roaster Brian?’

      BBC ALBA ran an hour long programme about him last night.As well as his position @Celtic (Director)..he is on the board of an energy firm and is a ‘high heid yin’ with Harris Tweed…clearly not short of a bob.

    219. heedtracker says:

      BBC ALBA ran an hour long programme about him last night.As well as his position @Celtic (Director)..he is on the board of an energy firm and is a ‘high heid yin’ with Harris Tweed…clearly not short of a bob.

      No way. Tory yoon roasters, old and young, do get a lovely time at the BBC. BBC r4 gimps broadcast this last night too.

      William Hague
      Reflections with Peter Hennessy, Series 5

      The historian Peter Hennessy asks senior politicians to reflect on their life and times. Each week, he invites his guest to explore their early formative influences, their experiences and their impressions of people they’ve known.

      In this programme, Peter Hennessy’s guest is William Hague, the former Conservative Leader who served as Foreign Secretary in the Coalition Government. Hague recalls how he first captured the headlines in 1977 as a sixteen year-old schoolboy from a Yorkshire comprehensive, when he told the Conservative Party Conference, ‘it’s all right for some of you, half of you won’t be here in thirty to forty years time.’

      Google Hague and there is millions of BBC hits, all more than just vote tory propaganda, although this one was especially creepy toryboy wise.

      Is there a hidden message in all this broadcasting of disastrous toryboys BBC?

      Can massed ranks of beeb gimps really brainwash us all into to becoming tory arse lickers, like beeb gimps?

      Too late for me:D

    220. ronnie anderson says:

      I dont think we Scots would expect anything else from Westminster , lies & deceit are the norm.

    221. Ghillie says:

      BBC digging deep to find new depths to sink to.

    222. mike d says:

      As Robert graham said at 10.23am. We gave these bastids carte blanche on the 18th of sep 2014 to shaft us any which way they see fit. Hope you proudscotbuts are happy. (You probably are though).

    223. David P says:

      Skewed, but not totally off-topic

      BBC ALBA, of all channels, are showing black and white footage of an interview the leader of Clan MacLeod, speaking in an exceptionally plummy RP English accent, being interviewed by a large, fat man wearing a bow tie… also with an exceptional RP accent.

      “Natives”, of course, sound Scottish. The name of the programme?

      About Britain: Isle of Skye !

      Clearly, a forerunner of Norman Longmate’s book “Writing for the BBC” had been consulted. Don’t mention the name of the “nation region”, and make sure that the ruling elite don’t sound anything other than properly “British”, ie RP English.

      Who thought of programming this? – it’s beyond shameful. Then again, summarising Ghandi’s policy of satyagraha,

      “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win”.

      Propaganda-wise, clearly we are in the middle of stage three at the moment.

    224. Muiris says:

      This reminds me of the old joke about the ‘plucky British boxer’, who when caught with an uppercut, becomes ‘the Irish boxer’ is on the canvas.

    225. heedtracker says:

      Propaganda-wise, clearly we are in the middle of stage three at the moment.

      Last night’s bbc r4 toryboy fluffing session for William Hague, had him explain how he spent a day sat on a wall in Wales, with a Welsh women who taught him how to sing the Welsh rugby anthem, because he was about to made UKOK Welsh secretary. And that’s why he was so welcomed by the Welsh he thinks, at the tory conference.

      Its actually worth a listen if you want to hear how toryboys fluff each other, on the bbc. Same “historian,” did Tony Blair too lately. Blair just skips past Iraq like a thief in the night.

    226. Tam the Bam. says:

      Did you see that clip of John Redwood (the then Welsh Secretary) attempting to sing The Welsh Anthem?Comedy gold!I believe its still on You tube.

    227. Black Joan says:

      Robert Louis @ 5.36pm — as you say, the Germans get it and they have more sense.

      Creeping butcher’s aprons have to be avoided in most UKOK supermarkets but Aldi is eager to advertise “Taste the best of Scotland with amazing Scottish produce”. Saltires galore in a 4-page wraparound supplement to their standard Special Buys publication. Details about individual Scottish producers and why they are special.

      Note that the snarling Colonial Broadcasting Corporation tends to refer to Aldi and Lidl as “the discounters” as if they are dodgy downmarket spivs who don’t play by proper Britnat rules of cricket (i.e. they cheat by undercutting the butcher’s-apron-bespattered produce offered by UKOK outlets).

      Only the plebs shop at “the discounters” if the Colonial broadcasters are to be believed. How wrong they are.

    228. Phronesis says:

      Brexit-economic la la land:

      ‘But for a country deeply divided by economic and social rifts, leaving Europe was never about the economy. It was about finding unity. Polarizing public opinion against the EU and immigration and away from domestic issues was an easy political win. Yet Brexit will not fix the shortfalls of the Anglo-American growth engine, which ran on credit and rising asset prices over the past few decades, disregarding rising inequality, a lack of inclusive access to education and declining social mobility. Brexit will not change that, nor will it make Britain more united: the English patient was sick long before the divorce from Europe…

      With an economy focused on finance and services, and highly dependent on foreign investment, the idea of creating a “truly global Britain” isolated from its closest trading partner is economic la-la land…
      Brexit is a symptom of Britain’s deeply rooted economic imbalances: a growth model too concentrated on finance and services and dependent on foreign goods, human and financial capital; record-high social and wealth inequality; a lack of investment in infrastructure and education; and monetary and fiscal policies that have helped create a property bubble and excess household debt’

      The political economy of tax justice and the abuse of wealth protection in an ‘undemocracy’:

      At a time when a general election has dominated the press for the last two months and Brexit has been a shadow of anxiety – a most remarkable event that the political parties have been steadfastly refusing to remark upon in any meaningful way – it is important to recall just how we got to the current state of affairs; a state that Craig Berry refers to as ‘undemocracy’. A narrow majority decision based on (at best) limited information has become a fait accompli empowering government to pursue a position regarding which the populous are still in ignorance. It is difficult to see what kind of mandate follows from this, but it is not difficult to see that the longstanding problem is one of increasing separation between citizenry and those who they elect to represent them…

      Like all countries, the UK confronts a tension between motives to ensure that taxes are collected, the tax base is maintained and a general commitment to the tax system is reproduced amongst citizenry, and the divisive inter-governmental tendency to try to attract corporate investment in ways that also facilitate dubious practices for the reporting of corporate income. Brexit creates more pressure for the UK to engage in tax competition and to augment its tax haven status. Britain is set to leave the European Union at a time when it has become increasingly obvious that a problem like tax avoidance can only be addressed collectively… Tax competition between states that enables tax avoidance by multinational enterprises in particular is economically harmful and undermines the legitimacy of the state.

    229. Ghillie says:

      Handandshrimp @ 4.21 pm

      Heard Lib Dem MP for Edinburgh West, Christine Jardine, called onto ‘Radio Scotland’ this morning to explain her side of investigation, reported in HERALD, into wrongful spending on election letters.

      She launched into a tirade against the SNP!

      Took quite a while for the announcer to put her straight that it was not the SNP but the Herald who were highlighting this question.

      Naughty boy.

      And revoltng behaviour of Christine Jardine.

    230. Ann says:

      My flabber was gasted when I read that this morning.
      Totally disgusting by the BEEB, but really who was really surprised.

      We all know if it wasn’t fir Scottish produce th. UK would be in a really bad place.

    231. galamcennalath says:

      Tam the Bam. says:

      John Redwood (the then Welsh Secretary) attempting to sing The Welsh Anthem?Comedy gold!

      The look on his face! Plonker!

    232. Ghillie says:

      Back on topic though.

      Wretched behaviour of BBC is corporate trolling of Scotland.

      But hey! We are really getting under their skin = )

      Tribish salmon indeed.

      Heard their British Haggis didn’t go down well either.

      Actualy, what are good British exports? Any?

    233. Capella says:

      @ David P – BBC Alba used to be able to sneak in some good programmes. Perhaps our London imperial overlords have noticed and sent a memo.

      I watched a BBC Alba programme about Dunkirk in July. The narrator spoke Gaelic but the English subtitles referred throughout to England and the English King fighting Hitler etc etc.
      No mention of the Scottish troops at St Valery of course.

      No doubt the toffs you heard were educated in more civilised parts of Britain..

      “treat them as a tribe and not a nation”

    234. Cactus says:

      ‘Mon the fish!

    235. Capella says:

      @ Alex Clark @ Dave MacEwan Hill – thx for the link, listening now and it’s great.

    236. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella “treat them as a tribe and not a nation

      What you are doing there and above is extraordinarily excellent. Giving a relvant example, and illustrating it with a quote, presumably from Heidrich?

      If there was a list of quotes like that, I might borrow that technique for elsewhere.

    237. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – yes it’s the Heydrich Doctrine, illustrated version. Feel free to to use the quotes wherever relevant. They are chilling enough but specially in context.

      “Deprive the people of their national consciousness; treat them as a tribe and not a nation; dilute their national pride; do not teach their history; propagate their language as inferior; imply they have a cultural void; emphasize their customs are primitive; and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.”

      When I find the original source I will post.

    238. stewartb says:

      Heedtracker @ 7.36pm

      Regarding your comment on that “former energy minister” who claimed “offshore wind in Scotland is pretty much dead” after a legal challenge against four major projects in the Firth of Forth and Firth of Tay. As you may know, but others may not, the individual in question is likely to have been disappointed when learning the following:

      “A £2 billion offshore wind farm is expected to go ahead after RSPB lost a legal challenge against the plans.

      The Neart na Gaoithe offshore wind farm was one of four projects that received planning permission from the Scottish Government in 2014 but it was challenged in the courts by RSPB Scotland, saying it was concerned about the impact on seabirds.

      While the charity won its initial legal bid, the ruling has now been overturned by the Inner House of the Court of Session after ministers appealed.

      The project is expected to have the capacity to power 325,000 homes – a city the size of Edinburgh – with clean electricity.”


      The scale of Scotland’s productive energy assets just keeps getting greater and greater – all bringing the prospect of long term energy self-sufficiency and energy security plus valuable exports and trade for an independent Scotland. We live in a country that is truly blessed with natural resources: our challenge is to make sure that the use of these resources deliver sustainable economic and social benefits to all our citizens.

    239. Glamaig says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      18 August, 2017 at 9:33 pm
      @Capella “treat them as a tribe and not a nation”

      What you are doing there and above is extraordinarily excellent.

      It totally is.

      Union Jacks on our driving licences, at every opportunity on TV, and all over our groceries, ‘British’ everything – Deprive the people of their national consciousness

    240. Arthur thomson says:

      @Shug at 4.45

      There is no point trying to persuade a BritNat. But it is really important to have the last word. My preferred choice of last words is ” I think not” or ” I see things very differently” or “That’s not how I see it.” Always accompanied by a friendly smile. They need to know that their notions of supremacy no longer go unchallenged.

    241. yesindyref2 says:

      Techniques like yours can be real influencers, specially taking your time in “hostile” territory before revealing the source. Hook them in, and then sink them.

      I used to prattle on in my grun days about “Tactics of mistake” or “Tactics of …”. Part of the idea being to convince your opponent you actually have a tactic! You could call it the “Tactic of tactics” I guess.

      Based on the Dorsai trilogy by Gordon R Dickson. Which seemed to reflect Scottish mercanaries, used by the Swiss and, I think, by the Vatican and European countries in the past (probably as Swiss mercenaries). Meant to dig out the books from the attic and re-read, but never found the time.

    242. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      I’m going to a decent library tomorrow and will have a search for the original source.

      Meanwhile, your use of the individual snippets to highlight the present-day comparison is very effective as yesindyref2 says – keep up the good work!

    243. indy says:

      I don’t read any posts from those on the list below, which leaves only a couple of posts that I actually do read.

      Heed tracker
      Robert Peffers
      Colin Alexander
      Liz g
      Ken 500
      Proud Cybernat
      Robert J. Sutherland
      Robert Louis
      Sensible Dave
      Meg Merrilees
      Alex Clark

      Wings is utter tosh now.

    244. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 re British Museum, in a previous life I used to visit London frequently on business, once I was staying in an hotel near the British Museum so one day I decided to do a bit o work from the hotel and visit the Museum. I walked in and said to the concierge in my broadest Doric accent (was working in Aberdeen at the time) and said “Tell me Quine, far dyay keep aw the sillar looted frae the Celts. 4th floor came the immediate plummy mouthed response . I guess I wasn’t the first to ask that question 🙂

    245. Lenny Hartley says:

      See Ken500 in the bad boys list, ain’t heard from him for a while, you ok

    246. colin alexander says:

      “GNI (UK) Limited is progressing the completion of the second gas interconnector pipeline between Scotland and Ireland.”

      Thought this might be of interest to some people.

    247. Capella says:

      @ Glamaig, yesindyref2, crazycat – Heydrich was a cruel and hateful man. But he wasn’t original as far as I can make out. So he must have picked up his ideas somewhere. His purpose was to demorlise the Czechs.
      If anybody can find the original source that would be great.

    248. Elmac says:

      Dreadful events in Barcelona which could easily be repeated elsewhere including Scotland. All in the name of somebody’s god. Our world would be a much safer, better place without religious divisions. How many millions have died over the centuries, been tortured, maimed, their lives ruined, all in the name of a supreme being, supposedly benign. How much more death and destruction will it take before this superstitious nonsense is confined to the dustbin? If there ever was an all knowing, all powerful, loving god he would never have allowed any of this litany of evil to happen.

      We could start by abolishing all faith schools in Scotland and kicking out any form of religious “instruction” from schools in favour of a fact based education which emphasises the morality of citizenship, irrespective of colour or creed. Unfortunately parents will still indoctrinate their kids at home and in religious establishments, but at least their kids will mix with children from all sections of society and form bonds and friendships which could see an end to the disgusting bigotry so evident in our own country.

      I know this is a rant but to me its as plain as the nose on your face. Lets fix this in Scotland at least and hope that the rest of the world will see the light too. Until it does this disgusting carnage will continue.

    249. yesindyref2 says:

      Just to keep nicol a amused, here we go

    250. Liz g says:

      Elmac @ 10.05
      Well said.
      I have been saying for years… Intigrate the schools making it clear that state education is not a backdoor for indoctrination.
      A keep religion in the place of worship and education in the school policy and I am pretty sure that half the battle of eradicating the sectarian shame of Scotland would be won in a generation.

    251. artyhetty says:

      Re;Lenny Hartley@9.55

      Interesting. I wonder where the ‘Galloway hoard’ will end up? It’s an amazing viking find, found in Galloway. Recently.

      On show at the NMS atm. Over 100 ‘rare and unique items from across europe and beyond’. But. If Scotland cannot raise more than £million by October, it will not stay in Scotland. I think we can guess where it will end up.

      If anyone can donate, they are raising funds to try keep it in Scotland. It must stay, it was found in Scotland, and should stay in Scotland. D & G, Edinburgh, just somewhere in Scotland. I could find little info on who it belongs to, presume UK, ie England in fact. Church of Scotland land, and private finder, sharing the possible £1 million ‘reward’. Take a look if any of you can, just some, but wonderful pieces on show at the NMS.

    252. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      Makes you wonder what they keep in the secret basement levels!

    253. heedtracker says:


      You’re right but look at what the US/UK invasion has done to the middle east. All of this war on terror is on the UK/US and none of it was about Islam, was it? ISS are the Iraqi military regime. We declared war on them.

      How would you feel if Scotland was reduced to a devastated failed state killing field, millions of Scots refugees across the planet, wracked by civil war, killing over a million Scots, a million violent pointless deaths today, because foreign powers like the US/UK decided it should be so, all of it based on a pack of lies?

      Think about that and the psychopathology of UK state political regime, one that produced Blair, Brown, every red and blue tory MP that voted for war on Iraq. Blair’s got away with it all and today merely says he thinks that the world is better off without Saddam.

      And then the US voted for Orange Hitler, all boosted and backed by the UK tory party and their bbc gimp network.

    254. Molly says:

      Elmac , I understand what and why you are making the point about ‘faith’ schools I really do but I’m not sure it’s the ‘faith ‘ schools that are the problem?

      We’re all free to believe whatever we want and if that comes in the form of an organised religion and the school is specifically to include your faith, I have no issue.

      What I do wonder about though is Scotland gets quoted as the least religious or stating a religion so why does The Church of Scotland have access to all comprehensives?

      I ask this as someone who avoided many an end of term ‘ service’ and struggled to explain to my kids why the school held their last day service at the local C of S when there were RE teachers employed at the school ?

    255. yesindyref2 says:

      I think comparing ISIS to the catholics, presbyterians, jews, budhists, muslims etc in Scotalnd is a bit of an insult, don’t you?

    256. North chiel says:

      It is now apparent that the BBC ( and other BRITNAT propaganda channels) , have decided to ” Airbrush” Scotland and the word Scotland from all London ‘ nationwide’ news output. Instead of the previous minimal Scotland mention e.g. Politics or sport , the minimal is now to be reduced to zero. Scotland now ” ceases to exist” as far as the London establishment state broadcasters are concerned. Thus and thereafter the minimal to zero context is to be equated with the minimal to zero marginalisation of our SCOTTISH government and our SCOTTISH NATION( AL) PARTY. Thus to give not only everybody out with SCOTLAND the hidden message that Scotland does not really exist ( in a U.K. Context) but also to actually to influence the thinking of Scots themselves that really Scotland is almost insignificant within the GREAT BRITISH LONDONCENTRIC EMPIRE. Scotland is to be ” banished” again to that ” far away place” in the wild and rugged far North of the English Empire’s furthermost outpost .
      Two exceptions : A Royal visit ( to enable the yoons to pay homage)
      Absolutely any whatsoever ” story” which discredits our country or our SNP Scottish government.

    257. Graeme J McAllan says:

      Easy to understand as soon as you realize it’s all about, and for, the benefit of the “Yoonited Kingdom of England”

      The whole thing really rips ma knitting 🙁

    258. Alex Clark says:


      Good luck in your search for source of the Heydrich quote.

      I had a look myself today with no success. One comment on a blog suggested that the quote as a whole didn’t exist but that it was made up of parts of various speeches of Heydrich taken from the Scottish historian Callum MacDonald’s book “The Killing of Reinhard Heydrich” published in 1989.

      I know you were looking at MacDonald’s bio though might be worth having a look at that book also.

    259. First law to be created by Scotland`s own legislature (whatever form or type of Government we decide to have)should be to boot the f#ck out of our country anyone that has lied to the Scot`s people to protect Westminster rule,

      no amnesty period,

      they can take their dirty blood money with them,

      they can live high on the hog with their dirty blood money but not in Scotland,

      when we restart the free Scottish nation we don`t want their malignance corrupting the constitution of our nation.

    260. K1 says:

      They should shut down the media circus that surrounds such events, they give a platform to those that seek to go down in history whether as martyrs or for the infamy, in every case where human life is taken in the name of this, that and the other, it’s not terrorism, it’s murder. Religion, is an excuse to hide behind for those with ignorance and hate in their hearts and minds, those damaged and ignorant are acting out what the world’s media has relentlessly platformed and fed…it’s a simple form of encouragement ‘monkey see monkey do’ takes over and the rest follows.

      There is nothing inherently wrong with people having faith in whatever system they find suits their own outlook, values and need to have a touchstone that connects them to a deeper aspect of living. The proof of that if any where needed is that the vast majority of people from whatever organised religion don’t tend to go out and murder others tae make a point, and almost all religions and philosophies like Buddishism at their heart are based fundamentally on the value of all life being sacred.

      Shutting down schools and churches is the exact opposite of what needs to happen. The world’s media need to be held to account. As an example on our own shores, the hate crime has risen 100% year on year since Brexit (in England/Wales). These hateful bastards who are now acting out whether here, Charlottesville or Barcelona, Manchester, Nice, Paris, London et al, they have been emboldened, encouraged by our politicians who have a vast and powerful media at their disposal.

      It’s really how Brexit ‘worked’, it’s really how Indyref ‘No’ worked too. We have a dickwad called Chris Deerin who is writing poison about those who support Scottish independence, that guy’s misguided bile actually earns him wages, and all he’s doing is othering half of Scotland so that those on his side who are ignorant and hateful now have an excuse to (potentially) verbally or otherwise attack anyone who supports our independence.

      I understand the issues surrounding faith schools etc, but that is not the issue when it comes to pointing the finger when such atrocities take place. Put the blame where it firmly rests on the propaganda that is spewed out on behalf of politicians for political gain, by a powerful and utterly corrupt media who set the agenda, the terms and conditions and then cry out from their rotten columns on rags like the Mail and Record ‘oh the humanity’ when others are murdered by bampots hellbent on taking others down with them. Not because they have a ‘faith’ but because they’ve lost all connection to their own humanity and any faith or belief that life is sacred.

    261. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @indy –

      Whatever’s eating you pal, please keep it to yourself or take it elsewhere, eh?

      There’s enough hate and bile going around at the moment – we really don’t need ‘list-makers’ adding to it all.


    262. yesindyref2 says:

      WTF does religion have to do with Independence for Scotland?

    263. Cactus says:

      Here’s a few stats…


      Name the common theme?

    264. yesindyref2 says:

      Apart from being a nice way to divide people that is, so there’s:

      1) OAPs (I’m one since Monday)
      2) Rich dudes
      3) Religious people and atheists
      4) English
      5) Financial services people
      6) Defence personnel
      7) Rangers / Celtic supporters
      8) Whatever
      9) Something else
      10) and for the 1% left in Scotland, we’ll find something to divide you and amke you vote NO

      divide the tribes into little tribelets”

    265. Joemcg says:

      Elmac-not that this is a bad thing but I would happily lay my mortgage on any part of Scotland NOT getting attacked by terrorists. Why would they? We are an amoeba on the world stage thanks to no voters and these people want maximum publicity. Barring the botched Glasgow airport attempt. It’s like saying Hull Swansea Derby Exeter Leeds Bristol etc would be hit. It won’t happen. They frankly would not bother. Those barriers on the Royal mile are a joke.

    266. Chick McGregor says:

      Cactus that’s a skoosh!

      Glesca, Aye or dae Ah leave pop?

    267. Capella says:

      @ Alex Clark – I’m reading the Callum MacDonald bio and his “Killing of RH” arrived today from Amazon sellers, cost a penny, so will look at the notes section of that.

      I also have Schellenberg’s memoirs which someone gave me decades ago. He has something to say about Heydrich too. I’m definitely on the case.

      It might be snippets from various memos. But it does have a coherence which seems more like a statement in a manual, or instructions to staff, which he is very likely to have given. He did order staff to search Czech history for examples of famous people and show how they were really German by birth or education. Everything Czech was to be shown to be inferior to and dependent on Germany.

      But I can’t help thinking his ideas are typical of any imperial power imposing their will on a colonised people – which makes them relevant to us.

    268. Col says:

      A quick look at BBC Scotland Web page and I see nothing about two of scotlands major exports boosting the UK’s food and drink exports. BBC Scotland run a lot of bad news stuff which is basically happening in England but oh how they love to peg Scotland on with some angle or another. Could someone tell me if this featured in any of today’s news bulletins in Scotland.

    269. Fireproofjim says:

      Re the Alba programme tonight.
      The fat man with the “plummy voice” on the 1950 programme about Skye was Richard Dimbleby, who was the top BBC reporter at the time. He was no wimp though. He flew several reporting missions over Germany in Lancaster bombers and was the first to bring the news of the German concentration camps with an astonishing and horrific report from Belsen in 1945. Worth finding it on You Tube. He was the father of David and Jonathan.

    270. Chick McGregor says:

      We watched the new movie on the Heydrich episode a month or two back.

      The key question it raised for Sheena and me was ‘Why did they want him killed off, fully knowing the terrible reprisals that would invoke, when he was about to retire and the Nazis already had successor?’

      It struck us that it stank of London machination or was it a genuine Czech gov-in-exile decision?

      Methinks if the internet existed then, the resistance response would have been ‘Unless you have a very good reason which is not apparent to anyone here, you can fuck right off.’

    271. Alex Clark says:


      I think this is the Dimbleby news report you talk of. WARNING pictures not for the faint hearted.

    272. sinky says:

      Omg sky news paper review 23.50 discussion on snp and Fringe events is absolutely outrageous then moves on to Vincent Cable but no mention of lib dem election expenses scandal. Don’t you love balanced Yoon media reporting.

    273. freedo says:

      Just wait a minute. Who is it that thinks they have the right to sell the Galloway Hoard! This material is part of Scottish Heritage, or history at least. I’m sure the finder was recommpenced to one extent or another, but at that time the ownership of these items surely did not pass into private hands! Who is trying to sell them? Stop Them!

    274. heedtracker says:

      Chick McGregor says:
      18 August, 2017 at 11:47 pm
      We watched the new movie on the Heydrich episode a month or two back.

      Most of the UK WW2 war effort was like that Chick, attempts at striking back at the nazis anywhere, at any cost.

      So what on earth did they think this was going to achieve, in 1942?

      Tomorrow’s the anniversary but wont be mentioned by all the usual UK propagandists, that tell us “we” won the war and will win all the UK wars to come.

    275. Chick McGregor says:

      “The fat man with the “plummy voice” on the 1950 programme about Skye was Richard Dimbleby, who was the top BBC reporter at the time. He was no wimp though.”

      I am old enough to remember Richard Dimbleby. He definitely had an aura about him. My internal jury is still out on whether that was as in regard to a concern for ‘Aura people’ or ‘Aura privileges of entitlement’.

      I have no such internal conflict over his son David however.

    276. Cactus says:

      Aye indeed Chick, thx.

      We are iGlasgow.

      We are Scotland.

      Talk up yer own community folks!

      How’s yer night gaun y’all?

    277. Chick McGregor says:


      WWII (in Europe) was a Russian-German war with Britain and latterly America mere supporting players.

      British and American military casualties inflicted on Germany were miniscule compared to what the Russians did.

      If you include civilian casualities in the total, the Brits and America did a bit ‘better’ but only by dropping 2 million tons of ordinance on German civilian areas (compare to about 70 thousand tons dropped on Britain by the Germans).

      Only when the Russians broke through in SE Europe did Britain and America decide it was time to go for a land grab.

      Not saying that was a bad thing, a complete Russian take over would have been worse, or would it? who knows?

    278. Chick McGregor says:

      Sorry, I thought I had left enough ambiguity in my answer for you to let it run a while yet, but no, you’re right, the Wings crowd are too smart by far.

    279. heedtracker says:

      Chick McGregor says:
      19 August, 2017 at 12:18 am

      WWII (in Europe) was a Russian-German war with Britain and latterly America mere supporting players.

      Poland too Chick. They’re usual side lined, in the great UK won the war fraud on us all.

      Seen this before? Its been hidden in undergrowth for a long time. Poles have experienced a similar airbrushing from WW2 by our chums in the south as Scotland has.

    280. crazycat says:

      @ gus1940 at 6.37

      Today’s guest at Alex Salmond Unleashed was Tom Devine – no idea who was on yesterday.

      (Since I’m posting this after midnight, a day should be added to each of my statements!)

      I’m going next Wednesday, so I hope he has someone interesting.

    281. ben madigan says:

      @ K1 who enquired about the motivations of suicide bobmbers/car attackers.

      I looked into this after the Manchester Bombing but think the underlying principles are universal

    282. Cactus says:

      Edinburgh, Dundee, Inverness, Perth, Arbroath, Aberdeen, Wick, Thurso, Shetland, Orkney, Arran, Millport, Helensburgh… add yours to the latest list.

      How’s yerselves?

      Yours aye x.

    283. Chick McGregor says:

      Absolutely right about the Poles.

      e.g. We see spats between Britain and America regarding who cracked the Enigma machine.

      When Poland fell, the polish secret service handed over information on the German enigma programme. They had cracked the first two machines and gave British intelligence what they had on the third. British intelligence had never even heard of it.

      None of the movies mention this.

      Also there was a significant number of Polish pilots who took part in the Battle of Britain.

    284. heedtracker says:

      Chick McGregor says:
      19 August, 2017 at 12:41 am
      Absolutely right about the Poles

      Check the wiki thing on that extraordinary map,

      “The large concrete map of Scotland was the idea of Jan Tomasik, a sergeant in the 1st Armoured Division, who during the war had been stationed in Galashiels, about 14 miles (22 km) from the castle.[3] He bought the hotel at Black Barony in 1968. In the early 1960s, finding his old wartime commander, like all Polish veterans, denied a war pension as a non-UK citizen, Tomasik employed Maczek in various jobs, including barman, in his Edinburgh hotel.”

      They weren’t just denied war pensions, Poles were completely excluded from the London Victory Celebration in 1946.

      Post war erasure of Scotland and Poland’s close ties, are just one more facet of the UK’s cultural domination over Scotland.

    285. Alex Clark says:


      Brechin, Kirremuir, Forfar and Alyth. Some right good Wingers from these wee toons too 🙂

    286. gordoz says:

      Just seen Stus twitter feed.
      Some external interference going on ?
      Curtailing wings output ?

      Unclear what’s happening but not good.

    287. Alex Clark says:


      Yes me too, hope it’s just burnout. Any volunteers for guest articles to keep things ticking over?

    288. Cactus says:

      Ayr, Anstruther, Applecross, Bridgeton, Blantyre, Barlanark, Currie, Cambuslang, Calton…

      The list goes on.

      Cheers Alex 🙂

    289. Smallaxe says:

      Capella; I hope that you’re still around!

      In order to explain our own history and to get rid of layers of propaganda lies, we will use the documents, created by the “other side” – the nazis. Let’s start with a quote from a letter, written by R.Heydrich to Martin Bormann on 18.5.1942, shortly before his assassination, where he openly stated the pillars of his policy: “The main idea is to strenghten the German influence (in the Protektorat) as much as possible without further interruptions, which means to practically take away any authonomy, to take way the Czech national identity itself from the people, to take away their leadership, to divide the people and to support everything that is German…”

      Verbatim, mein lieber Freund

    290. yesindyref2 says:

      I guess everyone has their vision of Independent Scotland, so the first thing is that Swinney and Mackay release their secret plan and quicly implement it, resulting within months of a 40% annual growth in GDP, meaning that GDP doubles every 2 years.

      Meanwhile as the Scottish Central Bank prints money like it’s going out of fashion secure in the knowledge that the rapidly growing economy will cover it, research funding in Scotland doubles, quadruples and settles at tenfold its current levels. With our prolific life sciences sector, all disease is cured within 8 years.

      Poverty is wiped out of existence within 18 months and everyone gets free ice-cream and popcorn for life. Scotland becomes such a target that defence becomes a high priority, and the defence budget is 50% of GSP annually. Yes, we soon got to defence, strangely enough.

      With the benefit of that tenfold research, I rapidly get 18 Salmond-class 100,000 ton carriers built, taking 5 squadrons of the S69 each, capable of Mach 25 and orbital flight from a standing start with full weapons load, including the curious reality enhancer called the Framework. The carriers are of course protected by 54 Sturgeon class missile cruisers, the likes of which nobody has ever seen, nor do the unionists want to.

      Media interest is much aroused by the RevStu fuckits which can travel submerged to any part of the planet’s ocean at 550 knots, surface in 10 seconds and are amphibious as well if necccesary. They carry a vacuum driven portal to the Matrix, with an effective range of everyone basically, but pinpoint accuracy.

      Meanwhile every city, town and village in Scotland gets a flat-packed squadron of Davidson tanks for photo ops and effective at a range of 450 miles. The skies can be flooded at need with the Rennie barrage balloons as a decoy, while the S99s flake the attacking forces into crumbs. And all this by 2030!

      Ah well, back to catching up with the recorded series of Shield: Agents of Marvel, or something.

    291. Cactus says:

      Dunoon, Dumbarton, Denny, Eskdale, Eaglesham, Ecclefechan, Furness, Falkirk, Forfar…

      The list goes on..

      Where ye frae fellow Wingers?

    292. Smallaxe says:

      Ah cumfae Glesga Cactus izat awrite aye?

    293. Cactus says:

      Garrowhill, Garscadden, Govan, Hawick, Hampden, HOME.

    294. Capella says:

      @ Smallaxe – brilliant find. Have bookmarked the link. Will follow up tomorrow.
      I have an extensive reading list!
      But I have a mission – linking known imperialist techniques to the present situation we find ourselves in.

    295. Cactus says:

      Howsabout… we are the architects of our own future.

      Aye, I be born in gorgeous Glasgow.

      Cheers bro 😉

    296. Smallaxe says:

      Cactus, we are children of the universe no less than the trees or the stars we have a right to be here.

    297. Grouse Beater says:

      London corruption – the long read:

    298. Cactus says:

      Aye Smallaxe, that’s where it’s at.

      iScotland calling.

    299. K1 says:

      Aye Ben, merely stating they are unhinged murderers, whether by suicide/car/knifing/shooting…socio economic factors of course play a part, ergo ignorance plays a huge part, radicalisation after traumatic personal events etc etc. Must apply to this guy too though…but he isnlt a Muslim and apparently he wasn’t a ‘terrorist’ either.

      Murderers and aw for an idea inside their heid. The light inside got brighter than the light outside.

    300. Capella says:

      @ Smallaxe – reminds me of Woodstock and Joni Mitchell. We are stardust, we are golden, and we’ve got to get ourselves back to the garden:

    301. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, good to have a mission. It’s a real motivator.

      Currently I’m e-missionless!

    302. Smallaxe says:

      Capella, it was a slight edit of The Desiderata that I wrote.

    303. Smallaxe says:

      K1 says: “The light inside got brighter than the light outside.”

      We were talking, about the love that’s gone so cold and the people, Who gain the world and lose their soul Then you may find, peace of mind, is waiting there And the time will come when you see we’re all one, And life flows on within and without you.

    304. Capella says:

      @ Smallaxe – ah yes – I understand the Desiderata. We are all children of the Universe. We have a right to be here. So let’s make that a reality in iScotland!

    305. Smallaxe says:

      Capella, you got it in one! see Cactus he gives out the prizes. 🙂

    306. Ghillie says:

      OK Elmac, you’ve had your wee rant.

      Nonetheless pet, I’ll pray for you.

    307. Glamaig says:

      heedtracker says:
      18 August, 2017 at 11:58 pm

      Tomorrow’s the anniversary but wont be mentioned by all the usual UK propagandists’

      Good spot! 75th anniversary too. I’m listening out.

    308. Ottomanboi says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is reported as stating that she would change the SNP’s name if she could.
      When Scotland is once more an independent and sovereign state again that might be an issue but until that happy outcome best stick to the job in hand.
      There is nothing wrong with national and its derivative nationalist in the Scottish context, so unlike the British one.

    309. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Glamaig @ 7.42am

      My Candian father-in-law was on the Dieppe Raid, he would admit he had been there, but, otherwise, would never speak of it.

    310. Elmac says:

      Re Gillies @ 7.21

      Thank you for the sentiment but please don’t waste your breath – I may be beyond redemption!

      Pray instead for the victims and their families in Barcelona, London, Paris. Manchester and the like. Pray for all those in the world who are victims of religious persecution for they are many. Above all pray for an end to religious segregation and indoctrination so that everyone can know each other for what they really are as individuals and live together in peace.

    311. Grouse Beater says:

      Your essential weekend reading:

      Why we need an alternative society in Scotland:
      A film aiming for maximum body count:

    312. Elmac says:

      Apologies Ghillie for misspelling your nom de plume. I hate predictive text!

      Its a new dawn and the sun is shining. Hope you have a great day.

    313. Bill Hume says:

      Elmac….you want me to pray… some god or other, for people who were killed by someone who thinks their god is more important (or righteous) than another god????

      No thank you.

    314. Elmac says:

      Bill Hume @ 9.01am

      My point precisely.

    315. Ghillie says:

      Elmac, everyone is within redemption.

      Ghillie is my name =)

      I pray for us all.

      Peace and love pet. Go well.

    316. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Wingers, on this hopefully peaceful Saturday morning.

      The artist behind Corbyn’s ‘Superman’ t-shirt has released the must-hear protest song of the summer [VIDEO];

    317. Glamaig says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      19 August, 2017 at 8:43 am
      ‘ father-in-law was on the Dieppe Raid, he would admit he had been there, but, otherwise, would never speak of it.’

      Aye sounds like a total disaster, all over in 9 hours, 900 dead, 2500 wounded and 2000 prisoners out of 6000 deployed, so only about 500 got out unscathed. Plus naval and aircrew losses. All for no gain other than ‘learning’. Mountbatten’s bright idea.

      The Canadian regiments must have had a lot of Scots in them, looking at the regiment names.

      75th anniversary today, still havent heard it mentioned on the BBC and its not on their website either. Search ‘Dieppe’ Sorry, no suggestions were found. Oh theres an article from 2015, and previous to that, 1972.

      Our imperial masters are strangely silent.

    318. ronnie anderson says: .Lets hope it wont last to long .

    319. I had a book on the assassination of Heydrich, it had some good quotes in it,unfortunately I can’t find it now.

      But operation Anthropoid was instigated by exiled Czech Leader Benes, who was safely in London -with the help of SOE – who wanted to show the British that the Czechs were also playing their part in defeating the Nazis in Europe.

      He was warned by the Czech resistance not to assassinate
      Heydrich, the resistance pointed out that they could have assassinated Heydrich any time but hadn’t done so because they knew the heavy price Czech people would be made to pay

    320. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 11.00
      Religion ” at the moment ” has nothing to do with Scottish independence.
      Let’s keep it that way,and ” up ” our chances of not only a peaceful movement,but,also a constitution wi a bit more humanity and a lot less deity!

    321. Smallaxe says:

      Theresa May just sent a massive f*ck you to survivors of terrorism. But the media are barely reporting it.;

    322. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Smallaxe

      I can only go with what the Rev has tweeted (outwith his control) & im not going to speculate & start the rumour millers , lets hope the Rev gets it sorted we’ve had these hickups in the past so im not to worried, he has a good backup team that will be working hard to resolve any issues .

    323. Ghillie says:

      Liam just keep doing what you are doing.

      We, here in Scotland, will thank you in the end.

    324. Chick McGregor says:


      Aye, looks amazing and I had never heard of it. Thanks for posting.

    325. Smallaxe says:

      Thanks, Ronnie, have a great day!

    326. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Just watched Anthropoid. Well, that got brutal at the end. Good film.

      For anyone who wants to see another dark film that pulls no punches (also about a sadistic Nazi officer) I heartedly recommend ‘In a Glass Cage’ from 1986. It’s a notch above Anthropoid in directorial quality and flair. And a bit nastier.

    327. Capella says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon – thx Brian – plenty links there to keep me going – I could write a book about RH myself after all this research.
      Read on, MacDuff !

    328. Ghillie says:

      Blustery day folks thanks to tropical storm Gert!

      Kites out but watch those loose branches!

      Have a lovely weekend everyone = )

    329. Smallaxe says:

      Reluctant Nationalist says: “I heartedly recommend ‘In a Glass Cage’ from 1986. It’s a notch above Anthropoid in directorial quality and flair. And a bit nastier.”

      May I ask, is it a Westminster production, I can think of nothing nastier.

    330. auld highlander says:

      All this talk about propaganda and Heydrich has reminded me about mayhems use of strong and stable, she stole it straight from the fuhrer’s Mein Kampf.

    331. Dan Huil says:

      Missing Chris’s cartoon.

    332. heedtracker says:

      auld highlander says:
      19 August, 2017 at 11:18 am
      All this talk about propaganda and Heydrich has reminded me about mayhems use of strong and stable, she stole it straight from the fuhrer’s Mein Kampf.

      Mrs May calls YES Scots, extremists.

      BBC say, call her Mrs May.

      Tories calling people who wont vote how we are told extremists, which then gets broadcast by beeb Scotland gimps, isnt funny.

    333. Robert Peffers says:

      @David P says: 18 August, 2017 at 8:30 pm:

      ““Natives”, of course, sound Scottish. The name of the programme?
      About Britain: Isle of Skye !”

      Now that you have brought up the subject allow me to give you a wee bit of personal history. I was brought up in, “A Pluckie’s Raw”, (Ploughman’s Row), on a farm. We had no piped in water and no inside drainage. We did not have piped in gas or electricity either. We were thus almost totally isolated from the outside World. We were also fairly isolated from the main bus and rail services and of course, without mains electricity and there being no TV in those days we even had little access to the Wireless.

      We had battery operated, “Wireless Sets”, that used a 12 Volt, “Accumulator”, a “High Tension”, dry Battery and a, “Grid Bias”, dry battery.

      We were poor and, “The Wireless”, was almost exclusively reserved for the, (wartime), news. We did have what had been a very, very expensive, and very large, wind Up gramophone. A massive solid wooden, floor standing piece of furniture.

      However, my Uncle Jimmie’s family lived two doors down in the same Pluckie’s raw and he was an Amateur Radio enthusiast and he showed me how to built a Crystal Set wireless from bits of old scrap electrical junk. I thus gained access to the outside World shortly before I was old enough to attend the nearest village school.

      Now, everyone around me were native Scots speakers so I found great difficulty understanding what the people on, “The Wireless”, were talking about but, being a very quick learner, I soon became accustomed to what I thought was 100% The English Language. I was soon to discover a strange anomaly.

      What I thought was the foreign to me, “English Language”, was in fact a manufactured, or synthetic, dialect of English called, “BBC English”. I kid you not – this, “BBC English”, dialect was the standardised version of, “The Queen’s English”, but the Englanders all had their own local English dialects.

      Only by the whole of Britain listening to the only English broadcasts from the, state financed and controlled, BBC were the peoples of Britain able to understand each other throughout the different English speaking areas of Britain and – believe it or not – The Entire British Empire.

      There is absolutely no doubt that BBC English was a unifying, government controlled, propaganda tool of the Establishment.

      There were little snide digs made about it but the average person just did not understand what they were actually getting at, For example there was a belief the Wireless announcers had to actually wear formal dress suits while broadcasting. There was a song, “The Night that Hutch Forgot his handkerchief”.

      Leslie Hutchinson, was a very correct BBC English speaker and was apparently never seen without that precise 1/2″ of white Hankie showing in his top dress jacket pocket.

      Here’s a few examples for you of early BBC:-

      There you go, folks, the BBC has always been a propaganda tool of Westminster.

    334. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g @ 10:00,

      I second that sentiment. The last thing we need right now are flag-flyers for one person’s hobbyhorse or another. It may feel good to the self-indulgent proponent, but it may feel so bad to one hundred uncommitted people that they dig in and refuse to back indy.

      I feel that there was a fair amount of that going around here yesterday, and it made me feel a little sad. Have we learned nothing? There are lots of reasons to support indy, but it’s only after we actually achieve the damn thing that we can start discussing and persuading people of the best way forward, and each to their own.

      Worth keeping in mind that once we are independent, then everyone, but everyone, gets a vote on that. Including all the people who don’t agree with your reasons, whatever they may be.

      Please keep that in mind, eager flag-flyers.

    335. Meg merrilees says:

      Where is Ken500?

    336. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      19 August, 2017 at 8:51 am
      Your essential weekend reading:

      It is GB!

      That bridge huh. Big name backing too, from BoJO The Clown, to Joanna Lumley. Wasnt it all her idea?

      London has vomited billions over its culture, especially on its art galleries, which are great but only if you live in London. We all still pay for it, pool and share style.

      Aberdeen City Council yoons wanted the same thing, so they’ve also blown a pointless London bridge’s worth of public money on ruining Aberdeen’s only art gallery, a fine Victorian neo classical gallery, much loved by Aberdonians.

      Please dont “renovate” our beautiful gallery, SLabour catastrofucks of ACC, they begged.

      No one knows when Aberdeen Art Gallery will ever re open.

      BBC Scotland gimps, Joanna Lumley, Rory the Tory, better together. Tory nutters, funny now, funny them but they won.

    337. heedtracker says:

      Times, another fine Scottish toryboy in action. So BetterTogether.

      “Liam Fox has suggested that devolved administrations be denied the right to veto trade agreements
      Liam Fox is demanding the right to bypass the Scottish and Welsh governments when striking free trade agreements after Brexit.

      The trade secretary has written to cabinet ministers suggesting that they deny devolved administrations the ability to veto deals, even if they allow in more genetically modified products, despite the bans on GM crops in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

      Dr Fox is also suggesting that the devolved administrations should not sit on the new board of trade that Theresa May has decided to reform. This is likely to be opposed by colleagues who fear it signals that the government is unwilling even to consult on trade.”

    338. Dr Jim says:

      A lack of imagination?:

      When the first slidy doors and communicators happened on Star Trek and other science fiction shows I thought immediately how wonderful the future looked but some of my family thought I was a ridiculous Nutter with a wild imagination and nothing like that could ever happen (slidy doors everywhere, mobile phones)

      I had a discussion with my grand daughters yesterday about how quite soon there wont be money and we’ll all be issued with some kind of credits system which we’ll access by thumb print or retinal eye scan or even implanted bar code which will double as communications system (phone replacement)

      One young girl grasped the concept immediately while the other couldn’t, claiming my vision of the future was completely wrong, even when I pointed out that actual money is a fairly new concept of trading and it wasn’t so long ago we were exchanging coloured beads and red cloth or animals as a means of a monetary transaction

      The ones in my family or others I have known who ridicule science fiction and such things even though it has become science fact, are all Unionists (funny that)
      I see the SNP and independence as my slidy doors and communicators to Scotlands future whereas the Unionists still want to keep using the shiny beads and red cloth

      Why do us Nutters keep getting it so right while the Unionists who are so wrong shout the loudest about our wrongness

    339. Flower of Scotland says:

      Since cancelling my TV licence my life is so much better now. I listen to my Amazon music on my TV, catch up with news items on YouTube video selections. I don’t miss live TV and watch great dramas on Amazon and Netflix. No adverts ever again!

      There,s also radio to catch up on news if you’re a newsaholic like me.

      And fantastic Wings to read also Peter A Bell. GA Ponsonby, Wee Ginger, The National etc.

      Give it a try! Cancel you’re TV license today. Don’t give your money to the British Propaganda TV.

      When an “oldie” like me can do it, so can you. We must stop paying for State Propaganda!

    340. Liz g says:

      Robert j Sutherland @ 11.52

      Aye Robert, I am happy to be a part of a movement that’s no a threat to anybody’s religion,or way of life,but also is no endorsing any brand of it either!

      I hope we can carry that way of thinking on to shape the country after Indy.
      A hope that we place as much emphasis on the freedom from religion as we do the freedom to it,then everyone is protected and nobody has anything to fight over.

    341. indy says:

      And todays posts are from


      And other posts are from the rest of their gang of proffesional Trolls:

      Colin Alexander
      Liz g
      Ken 500
      Proud Cybernat
      Robert J. Sutherland
      Robert Louis
      Sensible Dave
      Meg Merrilees
      Alex Clark

      Wings is utter tosh now.

    342. heedtracker says:

      Wow, Rupert Murdoch’s hungry. He wants us to subscribe to the Times, and adblock blocks 24 ads. Sign up and you get a Complimentary Prodigio Silver Nespresso machine worth £169.99

      Stay well-informed
      Receive complimentary access to two articles from The Times and The Sunday Times every week
      Get access now
      No credit card required
      I’m OK thanks

      I am ok, I get all Times grade tory attack propaganda from beeb Scotland gimps. Why would I pay uncle Rupert for even more, even more planet toryboy propaganda like,

      august 19 2017, 12:01am, the times
      Our new aircraft carrier is a colossal force for good
      nigel farndale

      In today’s world we still need gunboat diplomacy and the sight of HMS Queen Elizabeth is to be savoured

      I hopped the channels until I came to one I’d never noticed before, Forces TV. It was showing an extended report about HMS Queen Elizabeth, the Royal Navy’s colossal new £3 billion aircraft carrier, arriving at Portsmouth, her home port, for the first time.”

      Why do toryboys always undercut the actual costs of planet toryboy money wasting?

      They all do it too. Fighter jets for the carrier will cost more than the carrier, which wont be actually be ready for another 5 years.

      And that will be just in time for planet toryboy to get all stiff with excitement at the delivery of their next new £4bn UK aircraft carrier, due in 2 years time.

      2 very big gunboats, for UKOK planet toryboy. How exciting.

    343. heedtracker says:

      And other posts are from the rest of their gang of proffesional Trolls:

      Its professional, not proffesional, indy says.

      Thanks for reading though!

    344. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Smallaxe

      Naw, it’s a Spanish film. If it were a Westminster production it’d be called ‘In a Strong and Stable Glass Cage’.

    345. Petra says:

      There was a brilliant article on the Dieppe raid in the National this week. No mention of Lord Lovat (cousin of another great Scot – David Stirling who founded the SAS) and the Scots in the Unionist MSM? No mention of his brave piper Bill Millin who was by his side throughout the war and up until the end when he piped at Lord Lovat’s funeral in 1995?

      ‘Scotland Back In The Day: Dashing Lord Lovat’s heroic leadership in Dieppe Raid disaster.’

      ‘It was in this week 75 years ago that one of the great military disasters for the Allies in the Second World War took place on the north-west coast of France. The Dieppe Raid has become synonymous with everything that could go wrong in a military expedition.

      Yet within the overall catastrophe – and the needless loss of hundreds of lives was indeed both catastrophic and tragic – there was one superb piece of soldiering carried out by a force led by one of the most remarkable of all Scottish military officers, Simon Fraser, the 15th Lord Lovat, or 17th Lord if you count his Jacobite ancestor who was the last man in Britain to be beheaded and is now a character in Outlander.

      The Lord Lovat of whom we write was also a screen favourite. He is best known now for his remarkable courage and leadership on D-Day, June 6, 1944, when he led his commandos inland from Sword Beach to secure the captured Pegasus Bridge which was such a vital installation for the Allies on that most crucial of all days during the war. And yes, Lovat did have his personal piper Bill Millin beside him…..’


      Operation Jubilee, Dieppe – August 19, 1942

      ‘….. And Orange beach, the most westerly of the beaches where No. 4 Commando under Lord Lovat came ashore and carried out what was probably the only properly successful assault of the Dieppe Raid where the Gun batteries of Varengeville were captured and their guns destroyed before the Commando’s withdrew, suffering only 45 casualties in all…..’



      Best remembered by the French it would seem.

      D-Day. Lord Lovat réclame Blue Bonnets Over The Border

    346. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – @David P says: 18 August, 2017 at 8:30 pm:

      ““Natives”, of course, sound Scottish. The name of the programme?
      About Britain: Isle of Skye !

      “propagate their language as inferior”

    347. Flower of Scotland says:

      Great post Dr Jim@ 12.29pm

      Let’s have some more while the Rev is indisposed, instead of just chat. Remember No voters might be coming on to have a wee peep!

    348. Phronesis says:

      GB@1.49am – a really interesting and forensic analysis of a vanity project and how the public purse has been looted.
      Governance and accountability procedures appear to be absent during a process that should have been stopped in its tracks very early on.The public funds should be paid back entirely and spent on worthwhile infrastructure projects around the UK.

    349. heedtracker says:

      The Dieppe raid was a suicide mission. Which is why its not being commemorated on planet toryboy today.

      There were many many like it too, all quietly buried by the toryboys, because war is peace, and the UK will always be at war, for the rest of our UKOK lives at any rate.

      Its one of Bomber Blair’s and Crash Gordon’s great legacies.

    350. yesindyref2 says:

      They said it’s really not our habit to intrude
      For the more we hope our meaning will be lost and misconstrued
      So we repeat ourselves, at the risk of being uncool
      There must be seventy-seven ways to weave your cover, seventy-seven ways to weave your cover

      Just jump on the back, Jack, fake a new plan, Stan
      Don’t need a new ploy, Roy, just listen to us
      Strop on the bus, Gus, don’t need to disgust much
      Just break up the key, Lee, and keep yourself trussed

      They said it pleases us so to see you in such pain
      We wish there was something we could do to make you argue again
      We said, we appreciate that, then would you please explain about the seventy-seven ways

    351. galamcennalath says:

      In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll’s amusement.

      Thuir’s only ane o’ those aboot the day.

    352. HandandShrimp says:

      Looks like our professional troll Indy is back 🙂

    353. schrodingers cat says:


      Always make a great noise and you
      will be noticed. Always shout
      the other fellow down, especially
      the dull and the ignorant, they are not
      worth listening to.

      Always mix with loud and aggressive persons.
      Compare yourself constantly with others,
      and make sure that you’re on top. There will always
      be lesser persons than yourself to beat.

      Be careful in business and make sure you crook
      the other person first. Be blind to virtue,
      it only covers the guilty heart.
      Don’t be yourself, be whatever is expedient.

      Be cynical about all things, especially love.
      Don’t give in to old age, keep pushing. You may be
      a child of the universe, but the only right you
      have to be here is at the expense of the other man.

      With all it’s glitter, money, palaces, fast cars,
      smart clothes, good food and wine,
      the world is a pretty rotten place,
      so keep screwing it up,

      and above all – show a profit.

    354. schrodingers cat says:

      stu saying on twitter that he wont be able to post much for the forseeable future, doesnt say why.

      so here is peter bells latest blog

      The Scottish Independence Convention (SIC) has the superficial look of an obvious successor to Yes Scotland. In fact, it seems to already have appointed itself as the ‘official’ umbrella organisation representing the entire Yes movement. Which is problematic. Not only because SIC, quite inexplicably, includes elements which pose a real threat to the reputation of anyone who associates with them, but for reasons of democratic legitimacy.

      What is the basis of SIC’s authority? How representative is it of the Yes movement as a whole? What mandate does it hold? How can it possibly acquire such a mandate? How likely is it that the rest of the Yes movement will accept SIC’s self-declared status?

      Some of these issues have been raised by GA Ponsonby on IndyRef2. Particularly the fact that the SIC board appears to be dominated by the very clique of passionless technocrats, supercilious intellectuals and dogma-bound radicals which has recently sought to claim ownership of the Yes movement to the exclusion of any and all who decline to embrace their narrow agenda.

      Personally, I now harbour grave doubts about the Scottish Independence Convention. I am concerned about the judgement of those who have invited onto the organisation’s board groups whose provenance is questionable and individuals whose character is dubious.

      I have great difficulty seeing how SIC can credibly speak for the grass-roots Yes movement when it is so predominantly given over to a relatively small but inordinately assertive faction founded on a simplistic belief that ‘radical’ is synonymous with ‘righteous’.

      Most of all, I worry that SIC has no popular mandate; nor any means of acquiring one. I worry, too, that the SIC – and thereby the aforementioned faction of ‘righteous radicals’ – intends to ‘piggy-back’ on the electoral mandate of the SNP in a way that will be found unacceptable by the party’s membership and considered inappropriate by the general public.

      In order to succeed, the independence movement needs effective political power. In order to be effective, that political power must have democratic legitimacy. It is not obvious how SIC might achieve this. It’s not even clear that the importance of democratic legitimacy is recognised by those in charge of SIC.

      As a member of the SNP, and with the greatest of respect to both Alex Salmond and Elaine C Smith, I could not possibly agree to party funds being diverted to the Scottish Independence Convention as it is presently structured.

    355. heedtracker says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      19 August, 2017 at 1:24 pm
      Looks like our professional troll Indy is back

      I quite like being on someone’s list.

      So today is the 75th year since the Dieppe Raid and our imperial masters at the beeb are ignoring it completely.

      So lets not.

      English satire, back when England probably was a country that Scots like me would have wanted to be in a union with.

      Beyond the fringe- The Aftermyth of the War –

      Snatcher Thatcher, Bomber Blair, Crash Gordo, Mrs May, Brexit, The Vow, Rupert Murdoch, Trident 2, Iraq, Afghanistan, even those two pointless hulks like the one sailed into Plymouth last week, even BBC Scotland breathtaking liars, all of it’s UKOK planet toryboy’s triumph over Beyond the Fringe.

      Also, wiki says Robert Ponsonby, was the artistic director for the Edinburgh International Festival, back when auld Reekie really was reekin:D

    356. Hamish100 says:

      I’m gutted.

      Not once did I end up on anyone’s list of possible trolls.

      Still maybe I’m on a list of contributors.

      We’re approaching the political party season. The Tories will apologise to the Tories and blame labour and the snp for the state of the U.K. As 1 euro nearly equates to £1 sterling. Seems only yesterday the Tory boys laughed at the euro now they are getting quieter. Labour will blame the snp as they always do and the lib Dems will try and justify the electoral fiddling by blaming the snp.

      The snp and the wider Yes for Independence movement must now rathchet up the stakes. Promote why self government is the best way forward for thie country and how we are more than able to govern ourselves. Nae harm to our friends down south but they put the south first and everyone else last. Then we have the Ulster No surrender DUP. Up to their necks in corruption and sectarianism.
      Yip Autumn should be interesting. Be positive

    357. cearc says:

      sc, 1.49


    358. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Oh yeah, almost forgot: Anthropoid reminded me of the Danish film ‘Flame & Citron’ – with Mads Mikkelsen – about two resistance fighters in Denmark eventually aiming to kill the head of the Gestapo. There’s even orders from government in exile in London, which causes division, and ("Tractor" - Ed)s too. Eez good.

      I know the genesis of all this is Heydrich’s methods of oppression and their parallels today, btw, and not a movie recommendation discussion. I’ve not lost sight of that just in case you were wondering. Aye.

    359. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T sorry,

      Not being following thread since having to hold the fort whilst better half in in the Irish Republic,

      Good article on a United Ireland in the Irish Times,

      Interesting image of a flag. Red White and Green with two red crosses. NO BLUE!

      Take care peeps!

    360. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ CAPELLA

      Hi Capella! Re your quest for a certain Heydrich “quote”, I’ve been taking a look at it from the German side as I’m completely fluent in German.

      The internet/books are mostly full of how Heydrich got the (well earned) chop and not so much stuff on his speeches or what was spoken about at meetings.

      I also looked at his Inaugural speeches in Prague for clues.

      This is why I checked out some of the various Institutes who deal with Heydrich, Germanisation and Czechoslovakia, as well as the “Reinhard-Heydrich-Stiftung” (Foundation) in Prague. (English)

      Up till now I havn’t found anything which would correspond with the translated english quote that you’re using. There are some elements spread around in speeches which could have been translated and “squeezed” together. I’ve done about 15-20 speeches – some veeerrry long – and the eyes start to glaze over sooner or later.

      I’m afraid the stuff is in German and translating it would take ages to get right. Sorry.

      Otherwise, if I can be of help just screeeeam…!

    361. Flower of Scotland says:

      Good post, s cat! Peter Bell,s blog is always a good read.

    362. HandandShrimp says:

      I quite like being on someone’s list.

      I’m just being grumpy because I am not 😉

    363. Robert Kerr says:

      Oops the archive doesn’t copy the subscribed article properly but…..

      Copy/Paste works. Thanks to the “churnalists” of the MSM for guidance….

      Unification was a major issue in the recent Fine Gael leadership contest, Fianna Fáil have promised a White Paper, and Sinn Féin have again called for a referendum. The DUP’s support for Brexit and its customs and immigration restrictions – against public opinion in Northern Ireland – means we now require serious, long-term engagement with all parts of Northern society about the best shared future for the island. This must include thinking about how, if it were ultimately desired on both sides of the Border, a united Ireland could be constructed.
      The Belfast Agreement envisages a united Ireland created through the passage of referendums on both sides of the Border. Beyond these mandates, there is no clarity about what would happen next. How would unification be executed? What would be the constitutional structure of a united Ireland? What negotiations and compromises might be necessary? We need look no further than the Brexit negotiations to see that popular will alone does not constitute a coherent plan.
      The 1990 reunification of Germany would offer the most straightforward constitutional model. Rather than founding a new united Germany through article 146 of its basic law, West Germany instead used article 23 to absorb East Germany as additional provinces of the existing federal republic. Avoiding a lengthy process of constructing a new state and constitution – which would have opened up thorny issues for both sides – the parties quickly negotiated a treaty and reunification was completed in six months. This has generally been assumed to be the default route to a united Ireland. But how feasible would a German model be, and how would it work under our Constitution?
      Symbolic issues
      History casts long shadows in the northern sun. Even if public opinion was to move towards unity, joining the existing Republic would present significant political and cultural challenges to some parts of northern society that have deep-rooted suspicions that our state was not created to include them. There would be a Pandora’s box of symbolic issues, from flags (the Tricolour is defined by article 7) to language (Irish retains primacy under article 8), that could require negotiation and possibly a series or bundle of referendums. The Republic could become tied in the same Gordian knot of symbolic wrangling that has recently paralysed Northern politics, and the process of unification might become bogged down.
      Religion has traditionally been the cause of much unionist suspicion towards the Republic, yet while our Constitution contains some highly religious language, it retains little legal effect. Our constitutional rights now have no connection to Catholicism or religion in their contemporary implementation by courts, and could suit a country of any religious composition.
      Fintan O’Toole: United Ireland will not be based on ‘50 per cent plus one’
      Sinn Féin missing a lifetime opportunity to set the agenda
      John Cushnahan: Brexit will not bring Irish unity now DUP hold sway in Westminster
      Other issues of political identity might also pose challenges if compromise is required on institutions such as the head of state. Considering a retained role for the British monarch – as recently envisaged for an independent Scotland – would be a cultural and constitutional minefield. Rejoining the British commonwealth would probably be constitutionally possible, but would also prove controversial.
      There would be questions of political representation too. The Constitution has no barriers to incorporating full Northern representation in the existing Oireachtas. Under article 16, constituencies and the size of the Dáil can be changed by law, though the current constitutional apportionment – at least one TD for every 30,000 people – would require more than 220 TDs for the whole island. A referendum allowing lower ratios or larger constituencies could be considered, but the question of representation would be fraught with controversy given the effects on the nation’s political dynamics, and the difficulty of drawing ‘fair’ Northern constituencies.
      Changes in the Upper House would be more straightforward: the Seanad’s electoral system can be significantly changed by law, and representing Northern Ireland in a reformed Seanad with direct election would not be constitutionally difficult.
      Perhaps the greatest question would be the autonomy of Northern Ireland. Article 15.5.2 contains a heretofore-unused provision that allows the Oireachtas to create or recognise “subordinate legislatures”, so the Northern Assembly could be retained, although the enlarged Oireachtas would remain the supreme legislative body (especially regarding taxation and expenditure). The Constitution includes no detail on how such devolution would work and what its precise limits would be, so this would require substantial consideration.
      Prior agreement across this whole range of issues would be essential to the success of a German model in Ireland, but if joining the Republic was not acceptable to the people of Northern Ireland, or if the necessary constitutional revisions prove too complex, a new constitutional settlement would have to be considered. This would permit a clean break with the past and give Northerners a sense of belonging in a new state, but starting from scratch would present other problems.
      A new constitution would also mean that many aspects of our Republic – the status of the language, the Tricolour, a political history and culture built over a century of independence – would be up for discussion and subject to compromise.
      Irish unity remains a distant dream, but with Northern Ireland increasingly failed by British and DUP government it is incumbent on us to offer our neighbours realistic long-term alternatives. The key to achieving Irish unity is persuading people of all backgrounds that a united Ireland offers a better future than neglect and isolation in a post-Brexit UK. We must be guided by the words of article 3.1 of the Constitution, that the unity of all Ireland’s people should include “all the diversity of their identities and traditions”.
      With a willingness to undertake negotiation and revision, the Constitution might have the flexibility to incorporate Northern Ireland into the Republic, but we must consider both the need for dialogue and compromise, and the challenges and opportunities of all models of unification. Moving beyond our island’s deep-rooted partition will require open imagination.
      Dr Christopher Kissane is a historian at the London School of Economics and Political Science. Dr David Kenny is Assistant professor of constitutional law at Trinity College Dublin

    364. ben madigan says:

      @hamish 100 who wrote “The snp and the wider Yes for Independence movement must now rathchet up the stakes”.

      Great minds think alike! here’s my latest post!!!

    365. heedtracker says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      19 August, 2017 at 2:19 pm
      I quite like being on someone’s list.

      I’m just being grumpy because I am not

      indy says:
      19 August, 2017 at 12:45 pm
      And todays posts are from


      And other posts are from the rest of their gang of proffesional Trolls:

      Colin Alexander
      Liz g
      Ken 500
      Proud Cybernat
      Robert J. Sutherland
      Robert Louis
      Sensible Dave
      Meg Merrilees
      Alex Clark

      Wings is utter tosh now.

    366. cearc says:

      SIC seem to me to be RISE under a new umbrella.

      Their ‘popular demoghaphic mandate’ is presumably from having obtained 10,911 votes nationwide at the last HE.

      Beaten by Scottish Christians @ 11,686
      Solidarity @ 14,333 and UKIP @ 46,426.

    367. Fireproofjim says:

      Just worrying about Stu..
      Hope he is OK. More than ever we need his sanity and forensic dissection of the Unionist lies.

    368. cearc says:

      So nice to have a list of who has posted. I’d never have been able to work it out myself.

    369. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks for that, found the article. Next they’ll be asking Blair Jenkins to take charge.

      I’ll be emigrating.

    370. heedtracker says:

      Beaten by Scottish Christians @ 11,686
      Solidarity @ 14,333 and UKIP @ 46,426.

      Its quite British though. Look at how hard the grip of tory unionist, red and blue, tightens around power in Scotland, power that actual democracy just can’t reach.

    371. schrodingers cat says:

      i’m not convinced we need an umbrella organisation, also, there is no mechanism to appoint one, the yes groups have no hierarchy.

      we discussed a leader for yes2scotland on here a while back but we could come to an agreement about who it should be and even if we had, wos has no mandate to enforce its decision on any other group.

      so i cant actually see how such a group coud be selected and i have no idea what such a group would be for.

      the national yes registry enables communication between the various groups but it imposes no political ideology, what more do we need?

    372. schrodingers cat says:

      even blair jenkins admitted that he had lost control of the yes movement.

      quite right too, thats because it is a grass roots organisation

    373. jfngw says:

      I see most outlets are running with the Sturgeon comment regarding the name SNP. It’s not so much those that vote for it that have an issue, it is the connections that unionist use for National, the PM always refers to them as the Scottish Nationalist Party.

      It is difficult to come up with something else since UKIP has sullied the use of SIP, maybe the Indy Party of Scotland could work. If dropping the word National persuaded some that it was an inclusive independence and removed the easy unionist insinuation then I’m not concerned, it is the objective not the name that is important, to me anyway.

    374. yesindyref2 says:

      My lasting memory of YES Scotland is crap leaflets, silly video obscuring the whole front page, no information, and reports of people rushing around in their plush offices with worried looking faces, totally ignoring visitors looking for information, no doubt worrying about where their £100,000 a year salaries were going to come from, considering their fighting fund target of £24 million fell – well – short.

      Cynic? Moi?

    375. HandandShrimp says:

      Thanks Heedtracker 🙂

    376. schrodingers cat says:

      im not dissing yes scotland or anyone in it dads, i just asking the question “why do we need an umbrella group”?

      eg, one of yes yes scotland’s activities was to set up a merchandise web site to supply stickers and flags etc to the local groups.

      we already have ayemail to do this and we will crowd fund them again to supply more campaign boxes when the time comes.

      if you go through the list of what actually yes scotland did, you will find we already have everything in place.

      so tell me one reason, just one…. why we need a new yes scotland/blair jeckins leader etc for indyref2?

    377. schrodingers cat says:

      more importantly, as peter bell points out, there is no way, no mechanism in the yes movement to chose someone. eg, yesnef is constituted as yesnef, we campaign for independence. we have no limitations on who can join and enforce no political ideology other than supporting and campaigning for an indy scotland.

      we can elect our own convenor, sectretary etc, but beyond that we recognise no authority beyond or above yesnef. we nominate our own yesnef talking heads, eg, billy kay, lesley riddoch etc but we accept that we only represent yesnef, no one else. we ask no one for permission to do what we do.but the reverse is also true, i dont know who this group that nicola is talking with, nor do i care since they have no mandate to say they represent yesnef??

    378. Capella says:

      @ Graf Midgehunter – thx for looking into the docs re Heydrich. It is very time consuming and disappointing when nothing turns up. I don’t speak German so it’s great that you can read the original texts.

      I came across a Czech history of the assassination which points to the Jan 1942 period as most likely time when he might have been issuing instructions about Czech culture:

      “On January 19, 1942, a new Protectorate government was named, replacing the old government (entirely according to Heydrich’s ideas), which was in effect non-functional from September 27, 1941, onwards. The reason behind the reorganization of the government was the destruction of the Protectorate’s autonomous administration…

      The greatest change to take place, apart from changes in personnel, was the establishment of the Office for People’s Enlightenment. The affairs of the press, theatre, literature, art, film and foreign tourism were subordinate to this office. The ministry, in turn, was subordinate to the newly named Minister of Education, Emanuel Moravec…

      Moravec’s Office for People’s Enlightenment was to oversee film production. Films were to make people forget the reality of everyday life. People were to work for the good of the Third Reich and not to worry about anything else.”
      page 51

      So that took most of the afternoon and now I have to go out so researches will be postponed!

    379. yesindyref2 says:

      There probably needs to be an “official” campaign, cat, but apart from that, no idea. If there is one it definitely should have no policies at all, apart from Independence.

      Yeah, you’re right though, going on about YES Scotland is not the thing to do – unless Indy Ref 2 is going to be the same old same old, which didn’t quite work last time, though it was close. But if SIC is just going to be RISE with another name, then we’re a’ doomed I tell ye.

    380. HandandShrimp says:

      I liked the original Cunninghame Graham 1920s party name The National Party of Scotland which has a more inclusive whole of Scotland ring to it. The re-brand with mergers in 1934 to the SNP would have been uncontroversial at the time and it is only subsequent political events that made nationalism a more complex concept.

      That said, I can’t see any point changing now and I don’t think there is any intent to do so. The SNP are clearly a centre left inclusive party, Nicola addressing the Pride march today being an up to the moment example of that inclusiveness. The key is to own the name and make it your own.

      The Beatles was a fairly lame play on the Beat movement of the early 60s. They could have been a rubbish band with a naff name. The weren’t and The Beatles became synonymous with an entire decade.

    381. schrodingers cat says:

      some of the early yes scotland leaflets were poor but towards the end, they were much better,

      the advert with the baby in the womb was excellent, as were the polling place posters.

      the bbc had a top us pr guru, responsible for getting obama elected, review the videos and literature from both sides, he thought the yes stuff was excellent. he also thought the bt stuff was rubbish, as did everyone else

    382. Capella says:

      Ken500 is maybe on holiday?

      Cameron B Brodie hasn’t posted for ages either. He used to remind us regularlay about the UN Decolonisation Declaration. Worth referring to from time to time:

      Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

      (Not Heydrich – hope that was obvious!)

    383. gus1940 says:

      Re the anniversary of The Dieppe Raid I have for a long time wondered of it was deliberately betrayed.

      When the US entered WW2 they wanted to invade Europe more or less right away.

      Churchill was rightly terrified of another disastrous Gallipoli and wanted to follow his ultimately disastrous Soft Underbelly Strategy (Italy – some soft underbelly that proved to be).

      Is it possible that the Dieppe Raid was deliberately betrayed to discourage the US enthusiasm for an early D Day and go for the Torch Landings in N. Africa which followed shortly after the Dieppe Raid.

      The only concern I have about this conspiracy theory is that perhaps the Torch Landings came a bit too soon after Dieppe but the failure certainly suited what Churchill wanted and the appointment of serial incompetent Mountbatten to command it din’t auger well for its success.

    384. Flower of Scotland says:

      I read SIC: A broken umbrella by Peter A Bell. I think it is very good and could be the start of a great discussion.

      I think he is right. Especially this quote:-

      “Most of all, I worry that SIC has no popular mandate; nor any means of acquiring one. I worry, too, that the SIC – and thereby the aforementioned faction of ‘righteous radicals’ – intends to ‘piggy-back’ on the electoral mandate of the SNP in a way that will be found unacceptable by the party’s membership and considered inappropriate by the general public.”

    385. schrodingers cat says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      There probably needs to be an “official” campaign, cat, but apart from that, no idea.



      bear in mind that indyref2 will be a very short affair,
      it will happen once we know the result of brexit and when the polls start to move

      we may even have left the eu by then.

      i think DD will stall and request more time in the hope of spinning out the negs until after the next holyrood election in the hope of removing our mandate for indyref2

    386. yesindyref2 says:

      Fair enough about YES Scotland, it was the sticky autoplay video on their website which obscured the whole main page, and was hard to get rid of to get to any articles that bugged me.

      I was thinking of the Electoral Commision for the “requirement” to have an official YES campaign. Yes, agree it’ll be a short campaign, the minimum possible I think.

    387. Sarah says:

      @cearc 2.37 – that put a smile on my face!

      2.34 – good analysis of voting figures too. But we do need an overarching hub for responding to e.g. media enquiries, don’t we? [I’m thinking of overseas media, of course – our own will make things up, as usual.]

      And I would like a new word for Scotland regaining normal powers. Restoration? Because “independence” is surely for countries which haven’t been normal self-governing states before and suggests that Scotland is officially a colony at the moment, whereas Scotland is a proper country which signed up to an extremely unbalanced administrative arrangement and just hasn’t rectified that error yet.

      Perhaps “restoration” would give a different feel to the debate – more comforting, less scary?

    388. Lenny Hartley says:

      Sarah, restoration sounds good to me 🙂

    389. schrodingers cat says:


      i have no problem with other voices in indyref2, it is a strengh not a weakness

      bear in mind that such piggy backing themselves onto the yes campaign last time didnt win them any msps etc and the decisions still rest with the snp.

      watch this

      it is because jeanne is NOT snp which enables her to rubbish Andrew neil,

      as much as he tries to lable her snp and yes campaign, (this yesnp confusion was the basis of all the BT propaganda) she isnt responsable for snp policies, she represents WFI

      during indyref1 the snp went out of our way to remove all snp logos from all literature in an attempt to counter this blatent bbc biased policy.

      we dont need an umbrella organisation, and talking heads will talk regardless, eg if andrew neil wants tommy sheridan on this week to talk about indy, he will get him, regardless of whether tommy is part of an official umbrella group or not, the same will be true for all those in SIC, common space bella etc.

    390. yesindyref2 says:

      Scotland’s second enlightenment.

    391. Smallaxe says:

      For anyone who has time to watch later. Lasts for 1:38:07
      Nicola and the cabinet Public Discussion Montrose
      Someone, sometime soon, is going to have to admit that leaving the EU is something that’s beyond the UK’s ability;

      My apologies to the Rev.Stu. as I posted the first link earlier without removing the youtube prefix.

      I hope that you are feeling better Rev.Stu. I, however, await being killed by HAMMERS. 🙁

    392. galamcennalath says:

      Restoration? Second enlightenment?

      How about … Deliverence.

    393. Dorothy Devine says:

      Completely OT , but have just watched a really awful film about a magical toy shop owned by Dustin Hoffman but it had one lovely line which I insist on sharing ,

      ” Your life is an occasion , rise to it’

    394. Sarah says:

      Restoration of Scotland? Scotland’s Second Enlightenment?

      Any more ideas?

      I like both of the above. They are positive and are witness to Scotland’s place in the world, intellectually and politically.

    395. Sarah says:


      Ooh, “deliverance”. Yes, very good!

    396. Croompenstein says:

      Aw FFS was out for a drive and someone, presumably a yoon, has tied big poppies on to lamposts and road signs along the road. It’s August FFS have these yoons no respect, they are not fit to lace the boots of the guys who died in the imperial slaughter.. 🙁

    397. cearc says:

      Deliverance is a bit loaded for those who might be rather reluctantly voting yes.

      Campaigning for ‘Restoration of Full Powers’, would be less confrontational.

      It is worth considering that there are a lot of potential yes voters who will still be wary and a bit reluctant but realise that little England is going down the pan with brexit and see no other option. Essentially small c conservatives.

      These are also people who likely as not would not embrace the Byres Road Radicals which is, of course, why the likes of bbc will promote them to ‘scare the horses’.

    398. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 18 August, 2017 at 10:28 pm:

      “I have been saying for years… Intigrate the schools making it clear that state education is not a backdoor for indoctrination.”

      Then, Liz g, you have been getting it wrong all those years. Factually, and legally, neither the so called, Non-Denominational nor the other, (and there are more than just RC, schools are legally able to refuse any pupils on the grounds of religious belief.

      The history of how there were RC schools was directly because of sectarian abuse suffered by RCs in Scotland. When the state first made it compulsory for all children to be educated the RCs were being very much discriminated against and the Catholic Church bought and paid for their own schools and to train and pay their own staff.

      They refused to joint the then Parish Schools and the State wouldn’t or couldn’t find the funds to buy the RC Schools from the RC church that owned them. The RC church has still never been compensated for their investment in schools that the state eventually agreed to allow into the state education system.

      However, and as a child of a line of mixed marriages, both sets of my grandparents were mixed marriages as were my own parents, I attended either the best local school or whichever one was closest to my home. The law was, and still is, that no child can be refused a place in any state school on the grounds of religious belief and no child at any school can made to attend religious education. I can honestly state that in neither, what were then very much Protestant schools supposedly non-dom or RC schools did I ever suffer any form of discrimination by the staff, Nor was I ever made to attend any religious education against my will.

      Wish I could say the same about my fellow pupils – nut I cannot. For little Tim and Little Jimmie arrived in primary one already well indoctrinated in their family chosen Christian sect.

      I was under attempted bullying at RC schools as a Proddy and attempted to be bullied at Non-Dom, (sic), schools as a , “cafflik”. I was, and indeed still am not either.

      BTW: I never was actually bullied – and the would be bullies soon learned that I would not be bullied by anyone.

      Sooner, rather than later, I would get the would be bully alone and they never bothered me again. BTW: I’m still only 5’4″ tall but was well muscled, fit, strong agile and well able to fight my corner.

      However, the point is that in the local village schools here in Kelty it seems, (at least for the present), the preferred school of choice is the RC School that has a great many non-RC pupils by the pupil’s family choice.

      Mind you I believe that Kelty Public School has, besides a lot of building work, been much upgraded over recent years.

      Just to remove all doubt – it must also be stated that The United Kingdom history is divisive in the extreme and one only needs read the intro to the Treaty of Union for the fact to be very plain that sectarianism was built into the system from day one. To save anyone the bother of looking it up – I cut & paste it here:-

      “The Estates of Parliament Considering that Articles of Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England were agreed on the twenty second of July One thousand seven hundred and six years by the Commissioners nominated on behalf of this Kingdom under Her Majesties Great Seal of Scotland bearing date the twenty seventh of February last past in pursuance of the fourth Act of the third Session of this Parliament and the Commissioners nominated on behalf of the Kingdom of England under Her Majesties Great Seal of England bearing date at Westminster the tenth day of April last past in pursuance of an Act of Parliament made in England the third year of Her Majesties Reign to treat of and concerning an Union of the said Kingdoms Which Articles were in all humility presented to Her Majesty upon the twenty third of the said Month of July and were Recommended to this Parliament by Her Majesties Royal Letter of the date the thirty one day of July One thousand seven hundred and six And that the said Estates of Parliament have agreed to and approven of the saids Articles of Union with some Additions and Explanations as is contained in the Articles hereafter insert And sicklyke Her Majesty with advice and consent of the Estates of Parliament Resolving to Establish the Protestant Religion and Presbyterian Church Government within this Kingdom has past in this Session of Parliament an Act entituled Act for secureing of the Protestant Religion and Presbyterian Church Government which by the Tenor thereof is appointed to be insert in any Act Ratifying the Treaty and expressly declared to be a fundamentall and essentiall Condition of the said Treaty or Union in all time coming Therefore Her Majesty with advice and consent of the Estates of Parliament in fortification of the Approbation of the Articles as abovementioned And for their further and better Establishment of the same upon full and mature deliberation upon the forsaids Articles of Union and Act of Parliament Doth Ratifie Approve and Confirm the same with the Additions and Explanations contained in the saids Articles in manner and under the provision aftermentioned whereof the Tenor follows.”

    399. Liz Rannoch says:

      Restoration, Deliverance?

      Oh no, please, no.

      I’m up for something else but the first thing I thought of was.. Wasn’t there already a ‘Restoration’ in english history? (Mr Peffers?).

      Deliverance on the other hand is a film with loads in it to be used against us. Banjos, pigs and nutters etc!

      You know what I mean?

    400. Rock says:


      “Dreadful events in Barcelona which could easily be repeated elsewhere including Scotland. All in the name of somebody’s god.”

      We attack them first and bomb them into the stone age.

      They then attack us to seek revenge.

      It is as simple as that.

      Jail the likes of Blair and Straw for life for starting this vicious cycle.

    401. Rock says:


      “It won’t happen. They frankly would not bother. Those barriers on the Royal mile are a joke.”

      “They” might not bother.

      But the black arts department of the British Establishment CERTAINLY will, if and when independence looks possible.

    402. Alex Clark says:


      “The process by which a country determines its own statehood and forms its own government.”

      That’s what we’re after and will do for me.

    403. Tinto Chiel says:

      Scottish Renaissance, perhaps?

      A film called Deliverance didn’t really go terribly well, IIRC.

    404. mike d says:

      I see the black arts of the Madrid government trying to frighten the catalans,by suggesting that other catalans don’t want tourists. So therefore you would be better off staying with Madrid. Devious bastids right enough like their westmidden friends.

    405. Rock says:


      “Nicola Sturgeon is reported as stating that she would change the SNP’s name if she could.”

      I would change it to the Scottish Independence Party if I could.

    406. galamcennalath says:

      Deliverance was said somewhat tongue in cheek. 😉

      Although it is a fair description of the process to be undertaken. It does send quite a harsh message.

      Another word which comes to mind is normalisation, which is after all, what we seek. Though it’s not the stuff of snappy slogans.

      I do think an alternative to ‘independence’ would be useful. It’s not quite right either. We are not ‘breaking away’, we are seeking to dissolve the Union which we are often told we are equal partners in.

    407. Colin Alexander says:

      Someone mentioned India.

      Question: How did India obtain independence?

      a) Independence referendum

      b)The British Empire offered it to India as a gift due to the British being so noble and generous

      c) The Indian National Congress told the British Govt: India is going independent whether the British like it or not. They also rejected British proposals of increased devolution and proposed civil (non-violent) disobedience.

      How was India ruled before independence?

      a) British Raj puppet government

      b) SNP puppet government

      c) a fully democratic parliamentary democracy with a sovereign Indian parliament


      What is Scotland’s constitutional role within the UK?

      a) A sovereign Scottish parliament as part of the UK

      b) Devo-Max / Home Rule without Scottish parliamentary sovereignty, so Westminster remains sovereign over Scotland

      c)Scottish puppet governments, administering Westminster power, euphemistically called devolution, administered by compliant and servile pro-devolution/ Westminster rule political parties.

    408. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Tinto Chiel 5.52

      I love Renaissance – rebirth and a lovely period in art.

      Deliverance – would call me dave liked that?

      As somebody once said.. ‘I’ll get ma coat!

    409. Breeks says:

      gus1940 says:
      19 August, 2017 at 3:53 pm
      “Re the anniversary of The Dieppe Raid I have for a long time wondered of it was deliberately betrayed….The only concern I have about this conspiracy theory is that perhaps the Torch Landings came a bit too soon after Dieppe but the failure certainly suited what Churchill wanted and the appointment of serial incompetent Mountbatten to command it din’t auger well for its success.”

      Be three or four years ago now, but there was a good program of the Yesterday Channel about Dieppe. It wasn’t quite your standard WW2 documentary, and seemed credible, and featured interviews with Scots and Canadians who were actually there, but it also promoted a newer theory that Dieppe over and above being a mere commando ‘raid’ had the covert objective of sending in a snatch squad ashore to seize hold of Code books and Enigma equipment from a German Naval regional HQ in Dieppe.

      I forget the details now, but Ian Fleming of later James Bond fame was involved in the strategic planning, and at least one Scottish soldier interviewed had actually been part of a snatch squad detailed to seize things without knowing what he was actually seizing. As I recall, the snatch squad was still put ashore when defeat already looked inevitable, but there was also a plan for extraction, albeit forlorn, to get the squad out of Dieppe and onto a fast boat back to Blighty with whatever booty they managed to capture. They ran into trouble and didn’t make it of course…

      The evidence was sketchy, a little circumstantial sometimes and short of conclusive, but the inference that there was indeed a bold strategic initiative of some significance attempted beneath the apparent profligacy with the lives of so many Canadian soldiers. That did give some comfort to the veterans who were there. It was a belated comfort to think their mates had at least died for something, rather than nothing as many believed, and for a long time felt very bitter about. Being related to Enigma and German codes however meant that such a feature of the raid could never be acknowledged.

      The raid was undoubtedly a failure, and failed across multiple objectives while badly under estimating the strength of German resistance, but it wasn’t meant to be that way. The British had successfully raided Narvik in Norway in 1940 with some success, so there was precedent for amphibious commando raids not being a disaster, although Dieppe unfortunately was a disaster. Yet, according to the theory, if it had gone well, there could have been significant ramifications with regards to Bletchley and the code breakers.

      Credible theory? Or creative interpretation of disjointed coincidences formed decades after the event? Hard to be sure, but the testimony of the soldiers who were there made it a compelling theory.

    410. Rock says:

      Colin Alexander,

      “Question: How did India obtain independence?”

      Rock (2nd June 2015),

      “We are a pathetic people. Even Ghandi or Mandela couldn’t have done much for us.

      While their people were ready to sacrifice everything, we are meekly hoping that our 56 MPs outnumbered 10 to 1 at Westminster, and 7 to 4 on the Scottish affairs committee, will bring us independence without any suffering.

      If we want to achieve anything, we will need to get out onto the streets, starting with a massive poll tax type boycott of the Pravda GB tax.”

    411. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Liz Rannoch 6.14: re Renaissance, we shouldn’t forget Tintoretto, of course, I humbly submit 😀 .

      SC @1.52: some very intelligent comments. Good to see you posting again.

    412. Cactus says:

      Have ye all an ‘up above the streets and houses’ colourful kinda weekend X.

      Looking for an alternative or one to sit beside i, howsabout…
      “The Quickening”

      Remember where that came from?

      There can be only one, Scotland!

    413. Thomas Taylor says:

      Capella, re Heydrich – read “Mendelson is on the Roof” by Jerzy Weil. Tom T

    414. Ottomanboi says:

      The imperialists have made national and nationalist ‘dirty words’ but then nationalism was their ‘undoing’ ie Ireland, India, Ghana, Nigeria, Malta, Poland, Finland, Rumania, Armenia, Georgia, Egypt, Algeria etc
      Ms Sturgeon and the SNP need to detach themselves from the ‘metropolitan’ socio-political fundament. The SNP’s function is the attainment of independence. The current social liberal agenda merely obscures the issue. Scottish nationalism needs to be unashamedly ‘hard line’.

    415. Colin Alexander says:


      Tommy Sheridan & Co in their Poll Tax, then MSP days were people that could have led Scotland to independence.

      They were willing to stand up to nuclear weapons, the poll tax, and call out MSPs with their well feathered devolutionist nests at Holyrood.

      I apologise to people who think the SNP lead the independence movement.

      I don’t see that. They dominate. No doubt.

      I see no leadership.

      Westminster leads, the SNP react by moaning a bit. Idle threats, talk of Scottish sovereignty, The Claim of Right, then they get on with suppressing Scottish democratic sovereignty ( such as a Scottish Remain vote) by negotiating the Great Westminster Power Grab and Scotland’s forced removal from the EU.

      The SNP are the best Westminster devolution administrators. Stu’s website confirms that again and again.

      A National Party, ashamed of being a national party. An independence party that campaigns to “Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster”.

      A pro-indyref party elected on an indyref manifesto that has spent the last five months offering to trade away Scotland’s democratic mandate for another indyref if the UK Govt makes some concessions.

      Aye, Scotland needs an Indian National Congress Party, a Ghandi.

      What we have is more like a General Petain, Vichy France, Puppet Government.

    416. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You RC correctly @Tinto Chiel says:

      “A film called Deliverance didn’t really go terribly well”

      Burt ended up a creek without a paddle.

      The Yoons want us bend over and squeal like a pig.

      We aren’t going to.


    417. Tinto Chiel says:

      Jockanese WT: I certainly hope not. Brexit will be a make or breaker, I think.

      BTW, is it just me or is one of our recent “contributors” talking to himself?


    418. Bill Hume says:

      Colin is really weird.

    419. Colin Alexander says:

      @Bill Hume

      To paraphrase Ghandi.

      Reporter: What do you think of Scottish civilisation?

      Ghandi: I think it would be a good idea.

    420. Colin Alexander says:

      If some Wings commenters are returning to the “insult the person, instead of debating the issue”, type of commenting, after a period of more sensible behaviour,I have this to say:

      “I’ve been called worse things by better people”.

    421. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 5.16
      Actually Robert all I really got wrong was the terminology by using “intigrate the schools” and that was just for ease of understanding.
      Much like using the term “Independence” which isn’t strictly accurate either.

      I have always known that any child can have a place in any state school…. although we both know that it doesn’t really work that way in practice….
      Mibbi your right to take the opportunity to point it out,but in my experience there are no many parents willing to buck the trend.

      For the avoidance of doubt What I really should have said was.
      Any educational institution in receipt of public money should not be allowed to postulate on the behalf of any religion.
      Religion does not belong in schools…..
      How Catholics gained the right to educate in the past is neither here nor there.

      To offer a separate but equal education is too “Jim Crow” for me,and to split these kid’s at 5 simply on the basis of their parents “preference” is to be honest insane.
      Mibbi no be legally required but that’s how it plays out currently.

      Running at least two schools in every district is a waste of money and as I have already said probably play’s a major role in keeping the bigotry pot boiling.

      So IMHO the state schools don’t do religion and if parents want anything different they can make their ain arrangements,and leave the tax payers out of it,is the way forward.
      But thats just how I see it and as the other Robert pointed out… everyone will get to vote to decide this stuff after Indy,and that’s how it should be.
      That’s the main thing….we get to decide!

    422. Shinty says:

      Liz Rannoch -I love Renaissance – rebirth and a lovely period in art.

      Takes me back to ‘World Renaissance’ the original ‘Love Boat’ of it’s day (before cruise ships looked like double decker buses)

      Just watched the clip of the cabinet in Montrose – lots of angry folk there. My thoughts are;
      The only minister I thought came over poorly was Kevin Stewart. Love John Swinney to bits, everything he says is real but his delivery is not strong enough.
      FM always strong and positive – almost warming to her.

      iScotland will happen under her leadership of that I am sure and AS will be the cog in the wheel with the negotiations with WM.

    423. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hey, Bill, wasn’t the original reported quotation:

      Reporter: What do you think of Western civilisation, Mr Ghandi?

      Mr G: I think it would be a good idea.

      No wonder you think he’s weird!

    424. Colin Alexander says:

      You damn bloody Scottish, you helped England rob of us of our mother India for 300 years, while you yourselves are ruled by the English.

      But we have the last laugh on you servants of the English.

      We took your corner shops. Now we take your call centre jobs and make you suffer by making you spell your name and address over and over again, while we pretend we don’t understand you.

      300 years of India, Jewel in the Crown in your damn British Empire. Now it will be 300 years before we deal with your Mumbai Customer Service telephone call.

      “I am being very sorry. Please can you be spelling your name again. What is your address, please. I do not understand”

      We have a name for it: karma.

    425. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Colin Alexander –

      Why, oh why do you bother?


      You think anyone here gets anything from reading the kind of infantile shite you posted at 8.43? You imagine we don’t have much better things to do with our free time?

      And that’s the point isn’t it? You and the likes of Rock chip away at WOS readership by scunnering folk into not commenting and/or not reading because they just can’t be arsed wading through your interminable shite.

      Some feel you are tolerable because, as Heedtracker pointed out some days ago, your approach is slightly different to that of Rock. FWIW, I’m probably not the only one who finds your presence as dispiriting as it is provocative. You’re maybe just doing ‘a job’, aye, understood, but what you are doing happens to be despicable.

    426. yesindyref2 says:

      Program gone rogue
      ctrl – alt -del

    427. Colin Alexander says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      When the SNP totally abandon independence for Scotland as a policy, how could we tell that from what they do now?

      Nice of the SNP FM to attend a Gay Pride march.

      Was she too busy washing her hair during the pro-independence marches?

    428. heedtracker says:

      gus1940 says:
      19 August, 2017 at 3:53 pm
      Re the anniversary of The Dieppe Raid I have for a long time wondered of it was deliberately betrayed.

      When the US entered WW2 they wanted to invade Europe more or less right away.

      The contemporary point really, is that the current toryboy regime with which Scotland has decided/been terrified in to live under, glorifies war, Great British war, all of them, that they can tell us the Great Britain won. Ofcourse WW2 was not won by the British. The British lost everything almost, bar a few colonies and control of the British isles. A struggle they are still in today, as we Scots can testify:D

      The main reason behind D-day is pretty basic. The Allies aided Russia ofcourse but they essentially watched and waited to see who would win, WW2. Churchill and the UK elite detested communist Russia almost as much as they grew to hate nazi Germany. If Hitler had successfully invaded the UK, he would have wiped out the whole of the British elite. We know this because he told them he would.

      When it became clear that Russia really was going to defeat and over run nazi Germany, that was the trigger for D-day.

      Otherwise, if the Allies had not invaded Normandy, or had it failed, Stalinist Russia would have very quickly taken over the whole of Europe, as part of the Soviet Union, or as the nazi’s had intended they would.

      Clearly Stalin the mass murder, would have used the nazi extermination centres for all of Europe’s fascists, who were powerful, in most if not all European countries ofcourse. There is a lot evidence Stalin used the death camps to exterminate a lot more people, from within in the Soviet Union until the fifties.

      So in summary, if D-day had failed, the whole of Europe would have looked much as East Germany did, within the Soviet Union. And the Iron Curtain would have run right through Calais. Unless ofcourse, the US used their nuclear weapons on Moscow, like they did to Japan.

      All the UK got from WW2 was debt.

      Keep saying this, but we are lied to by our tory masters, from the moment we are born. Just look at how they use beautiful Argyll as their nuke missile dump, knowing full well it’s completely meaningless.

    429. Tinto Chiel says:

      Midge attack! Midge attack! Midge attack!

      Avon Skin So Soft works wonders, Ian.

    430. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Colin Alexander –

      Put the FM’s hair to the side for a moment.

      I asked you a simple question and you haven’t answered it.

      Why are you here, almost every day?


    431. HandandShrimp says:

      Was she too busy washing her hair during the pro-independence marches?


      Both Nicola and Alex were at the big Edinburgh March to Calton Hill. A fair number of we Wings types were there too including Stu and I spoke briefly with Nicola on the Royal Mile before we set off.

      I think your gripe is unjustified and factually incorrect.

    432. Colin Alexander says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Oh no, I won’t be allowed to rejoin the SNP; I keep mentioning independence.

      Damn it, it makes me sound like a Tory or Labour politician, as SNP politicians don’t use the I word.

      When’s the last time you heard an SNP politician mention that word?

      Some people are saying Stu might no update Wings for a considerable time to come: I’m guessing it’s cos he’s gonnae wait for the SNP to say something promoting independence or Scottish sovereignty.

      Don’t hold your breath.

    433. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian Brotherhood at 9:15 pm.

      You asked,
      “@Colin Alexander –
      Put the FM’s hair to the side for a moment.
      I asked you a simple question and you haven’t answered it.
      Why are you here, almost every day?

      Perchance this is the answer to your query?

    434. Shinty says:

      Avon Skin So Soft – oh the magical midge repellent – are you kidding me. It’s nothing more than a marketing scam. (unless you’re in the leafy suburbs)

    435. Colin Alexander says:


      Floor is yours. Tell us more. When was that?

      Which other ones were Alex and Nicola at? Or other SNP MPs or MSPS?

      Here’s your chance to convince people the SNP are still pro-indy.

    436. Tinto Chiel says:

      Don’t know quite why you’re talking to me, Colin. Try talking to yourself: seems to be your forte.

    437. Tinto Chiel says:

      Shinty: wasn’t being entirely serious there.

      But if you’re calling Mrs TC a liar, well, good luck, mon vieux.

    438. defo says:

      S Emancipation P shurely ?

    439. Alex Clark says:

      Independence rally Carlton hill 2013.

      Rev Stu can be seen at about 1:00 min in and Nicola Surgeon 2:50

      Well worth a watch if you haven’t say this before, few well known Wingers to be spotted early on as well.

    440. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Colin Alexander.

      From all your posts you have typed on WOS of late, we get that you’re not a fan of the SNP and the party’s approach to the independence question.

      So, what do YOU suggest the SNP and the wider YES movement should be doing NOW, or in the next week or two, to further the cause of independence?

      What is your input to the debate?

    441. yesindyref2 says:

      C: CD colina
      C:\colina: erase *.*
      C:\colina: CD \
      C: erase colina
      C: CD colina
      No such directory

    442. Petra says:

      @ Shinty says at 8:18 pm …. ”iScotland will happen under her leadership of that I am sure and AS will be the cog in the wheel with the negotiations with WM.”

      Nicola Sturgeon WILL lead the way to Independence. No doubt about that. We’ve endured this situation for over 300 years. Let’s be patient and keep the heid. One year to go now. She’s waiting for the whole Brexit mess to unfold such as a hard border in Ireland, with ALL that entails, then she’ll produce the soaring mountain of expert proof that Brexit is going to be an economic and social disaster followed by data compiled by her Standing Committee (and others) on the Scottish currency, economy, Constitution, Sovereignty etc. And then it’s adios, au Revoir, arrivederce, auf Wiedersehen, dag, adjö, farvel, ha det bra, zegnaj or just a chipper wee cheerio.


      Looks as though the Tories are scunnered with the Tories. Worth reading for a laugh.

      ‘Has There Ever Been A Worse UK Government Than This?’

    443. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      PS – I’m trying to get on the list…

    444. K1 says:

      Oh fuck.

    445. HandandShrimp says:


      What do you mean, when was that? The Calton Hill march was a major event with about 30,000 taking part and fair number of high profile speakers from across the Yes spectrum including Colin Fox, Partick Harvie, Margo McDonald, Elaine C Smith, Dennis Canavan etc,

      Pretty sure Alex was at the march that finished in Princes Street Gardens the year before too.

      How many marches are you claiming they missed?

    446. Lenny Hartley says:

      Somebody posted a link to this article on fb, I have archived so no clickbait.
      Maybe we should all write to Tesco !

    447. Colin Alexander says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      I’ve not really been away for years. I’ve been a “lurker” who saw little point in repeating the same comments : “Well done Rev, Stu. SNP perfect. Vote SNP and our trains will run on time – well, better than Slab would do”.

      “Oh Rev! the BBC and MSM tell lies, whit we gonnae dae? We’ll hold another indyref”, so they can lie again to win. Brilliant idea – if you want the UK Union with WM rule.

      I’ve been posting here recently because I’ve witnessed a complacency: Yessers who led the campaign for independence, now being led by the nose by an SNP who want more SNP administered devolution, not independence or Scottish sovereignty.

      There are a few out there who see that too, but they are shouted down by the SNP devotees, who support the SNP like people supported Scottish Labour: uncritically.

      Clever analytical thinking and objective criticism that shuts down when it comes to the SNP.

      Blinkered to any facts that show the SNP are betraying Scottish sovereignty, Scottish independence, for the number one goal of retaining SNP power at Holyrood as the administrators of WM devolution.

    448. K1 says:

      What a lot of absolutely evidence free made up shite.

    449. Colin Alexander says:


      You mean the pro-indy march FOUR YEARS ago?

      So, for the last three years, what campaigning for independence have the SNP done?

      Open question. Over to you.

    450. yesindyref2 says:


      C: format c
      Are you sure? That will erase all files y/n
      C: y
      1% 2% 3% …

      I’m a little rusty, help me Rob P, can’t find the uncolina.bat file

    451. heedtracker says:

      Blinkered to any facts that show the SNP are betraying Scottish sovereignty, Scottish independence, for the number one goal of retaining SNP power at Holyrood as the administrators of WM devolution.”

      Well to be fair, that was the 2014 democratic ref1 result Colin A, no to independence, yes to WM devolution.

      Cant really see any other way round it can you?

      You’re clearly only here to get WoS readers to stop voting SNP Co but its an odd way to go about it though.

      Its nice that you are here really, shows that despite having complete tory control of every means possible to get the SNP out of office, its still not enough for you.

    452. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Many many people are now noticing the BBC and the sort of stuff that Stu points out and the field has widened due to the confusion of Brexit.

      I am hugely encouraged by the progress that we are quietly making as witness the procession of YES centres being reopened across the country.

      In our Forward Shop in Dunoon we have a steady stream of interesting and interested visitors, many of whom are admitting to a change from NO to YES and these are thoughtful and informed people.

      What is equally encouraging is the fact that our unionist opponents appear to be believing their own spin and think they have won. That surprise General Election admittedly blew us off track for a short period ( one nil to the unionists) but the effect of it has been minimal and this is already receding .

      Truth be told no political figure of any substance got elected on the unionist side and this is becoming increasingly evident. Some of them in fact could not stand up in any long term campaign to any sensible political scrutiny at all.

      The steady, solid movement to independence continues and accelerates while our opposition aims its effort as always at the halfwit factor in Scottish politics.

      Simply put they are telling us that this glorious union has left us an economic basket case and that we are stupid and the only nation in the world incapable of governing ourselves. And we should just continue doing the same.

      Time is up on this ridiculous insult.

    453. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah! I see what the problem was. Index off by 1, it’s overflowed its buffers and gone into core meltdown.

    454. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Colin Alexander –

      Many WOS readers/supporters are not, and never have been, members of the SNP.

      But hey, you know that already, right?

      I just want to know why you’re here every night.

      But you won’t tell me.

      Why is that?

    455. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Colin Alexander.

      Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query – “So, what do YOU suggest the SNP and the wider YES movement should be doing NOW, or in the next week or two, to further the cause of independence?
      What is your input to the debate?”
      with your missive.

      Unfortunately. you neglected to answer my question –
      “So, what do YOU suggest the SNP and the wider YES movement should be doing NOW, or in the next week or two, to further the cause of independence?”

      You could be sitting there with the answer to life, the universe, everything and independence – but you’re not telling us the way forward!

      Woe is us!

      I paraphrase from something I read this week…
      The light of independence is only visible, due to the darkness of unionism.

    456. Alex Clark says:

      Feeding trolls really is a waste of time. It’s becomes all about THEM and that’s the point of their existence to get you to talk about THEM.

      Repeating the same rubbish again and again is a waste of my time and yours, let them talk to themselves, that winds them up.

    457. Tinto Chiel says:

      Alex Clark:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      19 August, 2017 at 9:33 pm
      Don’t know quite why you’re talking to me, Colin. Try talking to yourself: seems to be your forte.

    458. HandandShrimp says:


      The marches were fantastic as rallying points for activists when there was an actual vote to campaign for. However, as a tool to change minds I am unconvinced they do much if anything. The anti-Iraq war march being a case in point.

      At this juncture we need to bide our time and move when the cards fall our way. We need the SNP to ensure we can get the necessary legislation and democratic rubber stamp and we must ensure we chose our battles carefully. The whole UK political backdrop is in a state of flux. Brexit has the potential to be a significant lever and we need to be ready to move but we can’t overplay our hand at this juncture.

      If you genuinely think the SNP leadership don’t want independence then I think you are reading the runes wrongly. The SNP leadership are painfully aware that a second referendum will be our last shot for a good number of years. They want to reel this catch in slowly and carefully without losing the prize.

    459. Colin Alexander says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      1: Copy the Indians that stood up to the British and said: No

      2: No to devolution administered by the SNP. No to UK Govt domination. No to BBC propaganda. No to Daily Record and other propaganda sheets that pretend to be newspapers.

      3. No to devolution. Devolution is Westminster rule in Edinburgh.

      4. Yes to Scottish Parliamentary sovereignty

      5. Yes to Scottish popular democratic sovereignty. “We the people”.

      6. Ditch indyref.

      7. The SNP or others should adopt a manifesto for Scottish Parliamentary sovereignty. With parliamentary sovereignty we will be free to decide our democratic future via democratic elections and manifesto mandates. It will be Scotland’s democracy decided by Scotland’s people.

      Scottish parliamentary sovereignty is the minimum step forward. Devolution is dead.

    460. heedtracker says:

      Hope this makes it through archive is. BBC have been protecting Mrs May and Orange Hitler but its not going unnoticed in the US.

      “Steven Fielding, a professor of political history at the University of Nottingham, England, said Britain’s current vulnerability made it even more difficult for Mrs. May to speak out.

      “Many people in Britain feel the country is on the verge of falling off the cliff and a good deal with the United States is a very important lifeline,” Professor Fielding said. “So keeping in with the American president, whoever that president may happen to be, is of paramount importance.”

      Pres Obama was routinely ignored by exact same UK tory creep show and ofcourse beeb gimpery. Ignored, is being nice about them.

    461. Shinty says:

      Tinto Chiel – me neither!

      One thing I hate to boast about is midges but believe me when I say not even Avon can help in my neck of the woods.(even if they do sell it in all the campsites and local shops)

    462. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s too much happening, and still to happen, as the Brexit drama unravels. Too many paths that can be taken, to commit to any action yet until all bar one have been eliminated. It’s a waiting game. Meanwhile seems to me humour is the best antidote.

    463. heedtracker says:

      1: Copy the Indians that stood up to the British and said: No

      India is a vast continent of near on a billion people. One thousand million people, several ethnicities, several religions, totally different socio economics etc, versus 5.4 million Scottish people, Colin A.

      Its a silly comparison. Cant think why you keep comparing and contrasting either:D

    464. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nae worries, Shinty. I have a theory they only go for “sweet blood”. The Home Secretary does actually find that potion helps.

      Thankfully, I am largely immune to mozzies now (!).

      I think smearing with badger excrement is a boon.

    465. Capella says:

      @ Tom T – thanks for the suggested book – is the Heydrich quote in that book? Or is it just a good read? Had a look on amazon but didn’t press one-click yet!

    466. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      I read the book Tom T mentioned, years ago. I don’t have a copy, and have no idea whether it included any quotes, but it was a good book (in a rather horrible way, given the subject).

      Meanwhile, I’ve borrowed this:

      I’ve skimmed through it. Most of the relevant references appear to be to the National Archive in Prague, which is not particularly helpful! The quote does not appear, but there are a number of other interesting passages.

      The author suggests that the British and Czech-in-exile governments knew that an assassination would trigger reprisals, but they were desperately over-stretched and wanted to incite popular unrest to distract the Germans and create breathing space for themselves. For the greater good, and all that…

      Chapter VIII, entitled Reich Protector, contains a section called Cultural Imperialism, which is probably the most relevant to our discussions. He had already acquired the belief that “the interests of the German people took precedence over all other political or ethical considerations.” Once in a position of power, he was able to pursue that end via population movement, re-education, and extermination.

      Some of the techniques are familiar:

      Heydrich hoped that by conducting cultural and political affairs exclusively in German, the Czech language would be ‘reduced to the private sphere’ before eventually becoming extinct.

      The re-opening of the Concert Hall is described, but not in the words used by MacDonald – there is, however, a link to the actual speech (in the Prague Archive, of course).

      With regard to the uses of this battery of techniques by other administrations, I thought this bit was particularly interesting:

      Heydrich’s efforts at rewriting history did not go unnoticed in London, where intelligence reports commented on his ‘extremely clever historical argument, purporting to prove that the Czech nation has always been most prosperous at periods when the German influence was strongest, and that the Protectorate owing to its geographical position cannot exist otherwise than as an integral part of the German living space.’

      [National Archives, Kew, HS 4/79/324795]

      Who influenced whom?

    467. schrodingers cat says:

      another intermission

    468. yesindyref2 says:

      There are times when faced with multiple choices, the best action is inaction. Bit by bit the choices disappear, until there are just one or two directions to go in. A little nudge along the way to avoid choices you don’t like helps that process. It’s one way of taking difficult decisions. A way most people these days despise.

      I’ve searched and can’t find where this idea comes from, probably the 70s which were full of such metaphysical and psychological stuff. I thought it was maybe Asimov’s Salvor Hardin. Best I can find it this quote:

      “Your life will be simplified when you choose inaction when no action is required and choose action when action is required!”

    469. Jock McDonnell says:

      Just in case anyone hasn’t been paying attention, worth remembering that the next referendum campaign is underway and Nicola won’t be leading it because #snpbad very bad. No, you are leading it, you, me and all of us. So if you aren’t campaigning yet, if you are still asking WTF is going on and who’s in charge, then you are not really understanding the nature of this battle & the power of our opponents.
      Nobody is going to help Scotland, nobody ever has.
      It’s up to us folks.

    470. indy says:

      How much is the Rev paying these borin’ Trolls???

      Heed tracker
      Robert Peffers
      Colin Alexander
      Liz g
      Ken 500
      Proud Cybernat
      Robert J. Sutherland
      Robert Louis
      Sensible Dave
      Meg Merrilees
      Alex Clark
      Reluctant Nationalist

      And how many of the above list are one person using multiple names???

      Wings is utter crap now and sooooooooooo fuckin borin’.

    471. Meg merrilees says:


      I’ve found drinking LOTS of tonic water with quinine in it seems to keep them away and believe me I’m chocolate cake to midgies!

      Avon works fine on the east/middle parts of the country but the west coast midgies must drink lots of Irn Bru or something.

      Lethal so they are!

    472. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – good work Tintin! – Strange that the quote is so elusive but you seem to be looking in the right place. Yes there is a sense of deja vu when reading about these colonial techniques.

      BDTT posted some good links to archives – one in German which I can’t read but perhaps Graf Midgehunter will have a look.

      Been out tonight so haven’t done much more myself.
      It’s a full time job in the WoS Detective Agency!

    473. heedtracker says:

      Its not just Scotland that’s ghosted, Graun style, its SLabour too.

      Kezia, Kezia, wherefore art thou, in the new New Newest Labour party?


    474. schrodingers cat says:

      Jock McDonnell

      comment of the month, take a bow.

      aint this the truth

      if you aint out demonstrating, canvassing, delivering leaflets, raising money for indyref2, dont criticise others, including nicola, this is your bag, all of you

      we are so close now….. i can taste it……DO NOT LOSE HEART

    475. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, dare I say lemon eucalyptus is good for midgies.

    476. @Colin Alexander

      Like a few on Wings you fail to see the Big Picture,

      Nicola and the SNP have to win over people that voted against their own countries independence/freedom/liberty,

      they will not be won over by any form of patriotism or public spirit or any feelings of allegiance to the Scottish nation,

      what floats our boat does not float theirs,

      Nicola must show the 10% of softer NO`s that Scotland is capable of Governing ourselves and that Holyrood is the best place for decisions about Scotland`s governance not Westminster,

      every day Nicola and the SNP work towards Independence and more and more people are appreciating her good works and hopefully change from NO to YES,

      if anyone has a better plan to persuade these soft No`s please speak up,

      or back off and let Nicola get on with it.

    477. heedtracker says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      19 August, 2017 at 11:15 pm
      Jock McDonnell

      comment of the month, take a bow.

      aint this the truth

      How many Scots like it like this though, the ongoing UK ghosting of Scotland completely, from UK everything important at least?

      SLab wont care, publicly. They’re so hard core Britnat, they tell Scots just anything now. Tory votes will love it right enough.

      Its a long way from the 2014 begging and pleading, weeping PM Cameron, lead us, dont leave us, we beg you Scots.

      To victors the spoils, us being UKOK ghosted is also spoils.

    478. sinky says:

      Great front page in Sunday Herald on oil taxation.
      Make sure it is promently displayed.
      Espect massive coverage by BBC.

    479. Petra says:

      @ Alex Clark says at 10:03 pm …. ”Feeding trolls really is a waste of time. It’s becomes all about THEM and that’s the point of their existence to get you to talk about THEM. Repeating the same rubbish again and again is a waste of my time and yours, let them talk to themselves, that winds them up…

      The name of the game Alex. Post a load of the same old guff day after day and reduce Wings to the boring old site that the wee bored ‘list boy’ Indy (who can’t stay away) keeps referring to. I’m beginning to wonder if they’ve got a relay team on here.


      Meanwhile did anyone notice that Ian Small, Head of Public Policy and Affairs, BBC Scotland posted (long) on the letters page in the National yesterday in response to Lesley Riddoch’s prior article on the BBC? It just goes to show that they read the newspaper and are taking it all in. It goes to show that they are not too happy with home truths and isn’t it just a cracker that they were given the opportunity to dissect the Riddoch article and point out that it was a load of balderdash when every last one of us have had a boot up the backside, totally ignored, when we make a complaint / s about them.

      If you don’t do so already start buying the newspaper and contribute to it on the letters page. For one start posting complaints about the BBC on there.

    480. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      Maybe we should ask Alexander McCall Smith to write a book about us – The Number One Wings Detective Agency. (I’m thinking about that because I also borrowed his latest installment in the 44 Scotland Street series.)

      Mark Curtis has written about the history of UK foreign policy, including the tendency to promote insurgents (not necesarily just in colonies) who then bite the hand that fed them and cause trouble for generations. We’re seeing the effects of that aplenty now.

    481. Colin Alexander says:

      Did youse no see the news a number of weeks back: The FM said, no announcement about an indyref till Autumn 2018.

      In the meantime the SNP repeatedly are offering to drop any indyref for Single Market concessions.

      As always, it’s the UK Govt that’s setting the agenda. The SNP merely obey.

      By the time the negotiations are finished the SNP’s final position could well be: we will drop an indyref if we can each get a packet of British Salmon and a bottle 12 year old Britich.

    482. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      SHAZBAT, Indy!

      What do I have to do to get on your list?

      Iye, iye? Ken?

      You’re demoralising me by my exclusion from your list of Wingers.

    483. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Empire made. Was made in China. Bought a torch in the fiftys. Crome with the flashing red light on top. Very American. Mother made me take it back to the shop. Think I ended up with a flat bulls eye torch with a flat every ready battery.

    484. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Och Colin Alexander.

      You still seem unable to elucidate what YOU would do in the next week or two, to promote the cause of Scottish independence.

      It would appear that you know where everybody else is going wrong but have no solutions yourself.

      Therefore, good night.

    485. Famous15 says:

      The more the trolls troll the better I like it. The frothing at the mouth Unionists are panicking.

      I see the pretendy indy ones here are like the Wizard of Oz.So if you are not with us on the journey to Independence you perhaps need a good dose of awareness.

      Notice I did not say anything bad about Unionists so they cannot do that squeeling pig sound!

    486. Colin Alexander says:

      As the current issue is the Great Westminster Power Grab, my SNP negotiating position would be: devolved is devolved. Sewel must be respected. One breach of either and for the SNP and indy movement.

      The Scotland Act 1998 / 2016 Devolution arrangements are null and void. No more SNP devolution administrations.

      The SNP will oppose devolution. We will stand for sovereign Holyrood or full independence. Nothing less.

      I would announce: Win or lose indyref will be held, as it’s a manifesto promise.

      The indyref will not be yes or no, it will offer multiple choices of exercising Scottish sovereignty with voting done by Single Transferable Vote, as in Council elections.

      The choices will range between Westminster rule to full independence and various options inbetween, such as a Sovereign Scotland with the offer to rUK of a confederal Scotland/r UK written constitution.

    487. Colin Alexander says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      I agree with the basic comment that the SNP can’t force No voters to vote Yes to independence.

      As I’ve explained above, give the people choices of what they do want. Not just Hobson’s choice on indy: take it or leave it.

      Why should the choice be between full indy or WM rule?

      Why can’t devo-maxers or Confederal Scotland or Scottish sovereignty have their favourite choices on the ballot paper and be able to choose preferences?

      I would choose indy first and Scottish sovereignty second , devo-max third. But that’s me. Your choice is equally valid.

      If it’s a repeat of YES/NO I think I may abstain. Why should I be forced to accept David Cameron’s choice of referendum question AGAIN and give legitimacy to a foolish strategy that gave WM MORE Power over Scotland. The opposite of the goal.

    488. yesindyref2 says:

      Trolls are useful, because by studying their line of attack, you can get to know what they consider to be weaknesses, but also they expose strengths in the Indy side they’d like to take down, and even weaknesses in their own side.

      One line of attack is that the SNP are not supporting Indy, and Sturgeon just wants a job for life. So why? There’s not an election on the horizon, so even if it worked and decreased support for the SNP, it makes no difference at the moment, except for opinion polls. So is it the polls, to try to get them down and down? Perhaps.

      Or perhaps they want increased pressure on the SNP to push for Indy Ref 2 too early, or even make some mistake with the forthcoming SNP Conference. Perhaps some strongly supported Indy or even UDI motion from gullible members.

      Another thing being attacked is the SNP December paper, giving an option for Scotland to stay in both the UK and the EU. Well, some Indy supporters may well agree with that, and would need little nudging to get irate about it.

      But looking at where that position leads, for Scotland to actually stay in the single market while the UK leaves, would require a large amount of powers to be devolved, including a large portion of immigration. So what does that do for us, and what does it do the unionists don’t want? Well, it’s yet another step along the way to Indy, and the question would be – is it sustainable for the UK as a while, or would it inevitably lead to Indy “by the back door”?

      Abyway, baiting trolls is fun, and at the moment there’s not a lot else that’s going on 😎

      Or is there …

    489. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah! Voila! There’s another one. Try to get Indy supporters not interested in voting at all.

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