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Wings Over Scotland


At the Seven-Eleven

Posted on November 07, 2023 by

Wings Over Scotland is 12 years old today. And since absolutely nothing is happening in the world of Scottish independence – and hasn’t for, frankly, years – we thought we’d take you on a trip back to the day we were born, since when things DID change.

Remember when we had a leader who could get the UK government to do stuff it didn’t want to do, readers? AND actually increase support for independence? Good times.

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0 to “At the Seven-Eleven”

  1. Anton Decadent
    Ignored
    says:

    Read the Diplomatic Career part.

    https://archive.ph/70Tbq

  2. johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    CNN also reported the Building 7 collapse prematurely.

    How did they know one of the strongest built buildings in New York, containing the SEC offices (investigating of Enron and Worldcom), the Mayor’s Emergency Control Centre, and a Secret Service HQ was going to collapse ?

    What did Larry Silverstein mean when he said “We decided to pull it” ?
    The BBC link dropped out just before the ‘event’ occurred.

  3. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Truthers. At some point a person in the know would have given an update. No doubt something to the effect ‘we are fighting fires in building 7, triggered by the collapse’ meaning the two towers. This might have been related as ‘they are fighting fires triggered by the collapse of building 7’. For all you know the BBC might have been copying CNN or the other way round.

    For 9/11 to have been planned you have to assume a lot of very wealthy people and even more average people would commit mass murder and keep quiet about it. All for Iraq oil? for the cost of 9/11 plus the wars it triggered it would have been a lot cheaper to buy the oil. And assumes that the US wasn’t aware of the success of fracking. It assumes that subsequent Democrat governments wouldn’t tell the truth and mortally damage the Republicans. It even assumes the BBC would lie for George Dubya.

  4. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    T*rrorists are funded by America & the UK.
    They’re mercenaries & mercenaries go with whoever pays the most & can even switch allegiance (taking weapons with them, ta) depending on who is paying the highest half way through fighting.
    They did creae Isis too.
    P*tin held a world press conference a few yrs ago & said exactly who funded them – even against their own (US) embassy that killed their own people (looked direct to US jurno) & who exactly was buying the oil & trading with terrorists (looked direct to US jurno & then to EU jurnos) who squirmed in their seats. He had receipts. He knew exactly who was behind them & who was paying what & to whom.
    It wasn’t him. It was the imperialist invaders, the yanks & their need to dominate.

    They are our biggest threat to world peace. Destabilising whole regions for their greed.

    They could level Pali – it won’t cure anything – it will only bring the trouble onto their own soil.

    They won’t be cheerleading then..

  5. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Someone mentioned ‘Jets’ lol!

    Weren’t they freaking massive Boeing’s?

    Jets lol Makes it sound like a couple of Cessnas flew in..

    Aviation fuel would’ve been full when they hit..that’s enormous temperature.

  6. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sven 3.59: iz this what you were referring to”

    https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/uk-man-wins-court-case-against-bbc-for-9-11-wtc-7-cover-up.279400/

    Not surprising that the BBC video below the article isn’t available now.

  7. Den
    Ignored
    says:

    @Billy Carlin , you need help. Btw there is a guy in the US called Alex Jones who used to come out with Bollocks like you. He is looking at financial ruin I’d watch what I was writing if I was you. Fuckin psycho .

  8. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri.

    Speaking of jets.

    “There’s been 33 UK military transport flights to Tel Aviv in the last month, including every day for two weeks after the Gaza bombing began.”

    The transport of lethal aid to the Zionists/IDF came from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Flight records going back to 6 August show no UK military flights from RAF Akrotiri to Israel before the bombing of Gaza began.

    “UK military aircraft landing in Tel Aviv have mostly comprised the C-17A Globemaster III and A400M Atlas C1, both military transport vehicles. Britain has eight Globemaster and 21 Atlas vehicles.”

    So you can imagine just how much lethal military aid has been sent to Israel so far from the dis-united kingdom.

    The ICC must take note this.

    https://www.declassifieduk.org/raf-admits-to-making-17-military-flights-to-israel-since-gaza-bombing-began/

  9. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    I didn’t spend any significant time reading into all the 9/11 aftermath stuff. But I had pondered if Flight 93 which didn’t reach the “official” narrative target of the US Capitol Building in Washington DC (instead crashing in a field in Pennsylvania due to passenger fight back), was actually intended to target WTC7.
    The WTC7 collapse certainly appeared strange in the way it drops with apparent catastrophic and uniform structural failure in a similar fashion seen with planned demolitions.

  10. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake
    AngloAmerican obsession with oil isn’t about the domestic cost, it is about control of World oil supply and shoring up the petrodollar.
    If the world stops paying for oil in US dollars the US economy will likely collapse.
    Both Republicans and Democrats wouldn’t like that.

    The events of 911 were compartmentalised and those most to blame for the ‘failures’ in intelligence, air control, and DoD were all promoted.

    When there is so much disinformation on a subject like this, go to the science.
    Steel frame buildings don’t collapse due to fire.
    This day three steel frame buildings collapsed, all at near free fall speed, directly down, not toppling.
    The laws of Conservation of momentum say this cannot be unless all support has been cut.

    The official reports only take events to the ‘initiation of collapse’ and then stop.

  11. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    ASA @4.18pm.

    You really are a piece of work, what I take from that inane comment is that you think we should just allow the Zionists to carry on murdering defenceless innocent women and children, (the dead children number over 4,500 now, not including those buried in the rubble) because a two-state solution in your clouded vision isn’t possible.

    They’ve trained you well.

  12. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    those flights are carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza, either from existing stocks, or from stocks provided by charities (paid for often by British money) what the UK flies on their behalf. They’ve mostly gone from the British base in Cyprus to Egypt for further road distribution into Gaza.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-announces-10m-humanitarian-aid-for-civilians-in-occupied-palestinian-territories

  13. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto Chief @ 17.33

    Thank you for taking the trouble to locate and post that link, TC it’s appreciated.
    That is the instance I had in mind. I still find it and various reports by assorted structural engineers into the collapse of the Twin Towers intriguing,
    But then, I am by nature both sceptical and fairly open minded, so I have to be cautious lest I wander too far into “conspiracy theories”. ( Interesting that the very phrase “conspiracy theory” was introducec by the CIA to discredit inquiring minds.

  14. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS, at 6:08pm

    It’s not inane: it’s reality.

    A two state solution just ain’t ever going to work. So there’s no further point in trying.

    There’ll be a lot less future bloodshed if the people of whichever side loses this current war are absorbed into other countries.

    Both sides have been expelled before from the land, and made trouble when they returned. Neither side is capable of living side by side.

    What would you propose? Because nobody at all since 1948 has been able to come up with anything workable and sustainable.

  15. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Censured for calling for a ceasefire, Biden could struggle for American Arab votes come the 2024 elections, no government is above criticism.

    “The US House of Representatives has voted to censure Democratic lawmaker Rashida Tlaib – the only Palestinian American in Congress – over her condemnation of Israel’s brutal onslaught against the besieged Gaza Strip.

    The House voted 234-188 late on Tuesday to censure Tlaib, a progressive congresswoman from Michigan, in a rebuke of her recent comments about the Israeli war on Gaza.

    Tlaib said in a post on her X social media account on Friday that US President Joe Biden supported the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people, warning that he would lose Arab American and Muslim support in the 2024 election.

    The House members in favor of the censure resolution accused Tlaib of promoting anti-Semitic rhetoric and claimed that she had “levied unbelievable falsehoods about our greatest ally, Israel.”

  16. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Remember this guy?

    It will be very interesting to see what Carles Puigdemont, and others forced into exile will do. If no government were to be formed by November 27, the parliament would be dissolved and new elections called for January.

    “Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has secured a controversial deal to remain in power by offering amnesty to Catalan separatists.

    The accord is aimed at “giving stability to the four-year legislature,” Sanchez’s Spanish Socialist Party (PSOE) official Santos Cerdan told a news conference in Brussels on Thursday, after negotiations with Catalan separatist leader Carles Puigdemont, based in Brussels, Belgium.

    To secure another term, Sanchez needs the support of Catalan independence parties. The Spanish prime minister has accepted their demands to offer amnesty to all those being pursued for their role in a failed secession attempt in 2017.”

    Sanchez still needs the backing of a small Basque party which he is likely to achieve.

  17. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    ASA.

    Utter hogwash, pre-1948 both lived together in Palestine.

    The real problem lies in the West, particularly in the US where the political will doesn’t exist to thrash out a two-state solution.

    However China and Russia are both working towards that hopefully with some degree of success.

    https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-20/china-and-russia-plan-to-work-together-for-a-two-state-solution-for-israel-and-the-palestinians.html

  18. Brian Doonthetoon
    Ignored
    says:

    An offering from Barrheadboy, which makes a number of valid points about our government.

    https://www.barrheadboy.com/do-we-really-need-another-working-group/

  19. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    It really has been an eye-opener, this past few weeks, seeing the callousness of so many. Especially shocking to see it in here.

    Is it the effect of decades of brainwashing and sophisticated US/Israeli propaganda, or is it human nature? A combination of both?

    Whatever the cause, it’s a rotten reflection on us all.

    It’s hard to see how the UN can survive this – it’s going the same way as the League of Nations.

    After every world war, Israel has grown. They have every reason to keep this genocide going now because that’s a full month passed, there’s no sign of anyone even trying to stop them, and even if they can be stopped there’s no-one can bring them to justice, the US simply would never allow it.

    Humanity has failed, utterly.

  20. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS,

    pre 1948, it was a single state. Under either the British or the Ottomans, and previous rulers back to AD 70 and the Romans. Even before them, under Egyptian control.

    Two modern states into one modern Israel with 1948 borders doesn’t work.

  21. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    johnlm – “Steel frame buildings don’t collapse due to fire”. I would run that past Wing’s Resident Engineer, Dan?

    It reminds me of Pipe Alpha which started off as an oil fire but which, because they didn’t close off the incoming gas supply from the Tartan and Claymore platforms on time, turned into a gas fire – big mistake. The steel platform of Piper Alpha melted due to the heat of the fire and fell into the sea. Burning kerosene would have the same effect on a multi-story steel framed building. Guaranteed collapse.

  22. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    JohnIm “Steel frame buildings don’t collapse due to fire”

    It wasn’t just fire. The area had been blasted with concrete shattered from the Towers. The ground had been pounded by the collapse, probably somewhat like an earthquake. The ground was reclaimed from the sea. But what was the possible reason to blow up building 7. Wouldn’t the two towers been enough?

    The fall of the two towers was fully explained and even the architect knew that they’d fall after seeing the initial damage. He tried to alert the authorities but he couldn’t get through to anyone who could have changed anything.

    As for Democrats and Republicans you are talking about very wealthy, powerful people being a bit more powerful and wealthy while risking a lifetime in prison or worse. You are suggesting that people who are so cunning they’d plan 9/11 but too dumb to know the possible consequences if they were found out. It would have been a plot involving hundreds of people.

    The argument all along was that the US government risked the attack to take Iraq’s oil. Now that argument falls apart, people have to make up another one.

  23. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yosser –
    there is nothing worse than lighting my stove (coal burns 700’C I read) only to find it later, a molten puddle on the floor.
    Aviation fuel burns at about 600’C and the fire was out pretty quickly afterwards.
    The lack of bright flames suggest low intensity.
    Can you provide any examples of steel framed building collapses?
    Free fall?
    Straight down?

  24. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    People have had 22 years to study 9/11, with unprecedented access to powerful research tools via the net. (Some of the comments upthread are embarrassingly ignorant.)

    Older people have had almost exactly 60 years to study the JFK murder. There’s a colossal amount of documentary evidence produced by people who’ve spent their entire adult lives exploring every detail connected to JFK and what happened that day.

    But they don’t bother.

    They just regurgitate whatever shite they were forced to swallow by msm in the wake of the events. And now it’s happening again with ‘7/10’, even though the Israeli narrative is being debunked almost as fast as they can spin it.

    There are plenty of people who actually believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. And who can blame them? If you were asked in a pub quiz, ‘Who killed JFK?’ and you answered, ‘It was a conspiracy hatched by the CIA on the instruction of LBJ and powerful business figures’ would your team get a point?

  25. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    Re. “Humanity has failed, utterly

    I am minded to agree, but would add a bit more nuance in that it’s not the entirety of humanity that has failed, as there are still some decent folk about.
    But there is little doubt a significant number of individuals that are motivated to grasp positions of power and influence and effective control in steering society on the trajectory we are enduring do seem to be sadly lacking the traits that are required to do the right and just thing.
    From the psychopaths on the big pitch engaged in warring and death around the planet, right down to the likes of Matheson trying to get out of paying back the £11k to the taxpayer that he racked up in roaming charges with his laptop whilst on his holiday.

    And again I’ll state my view that all of these inherent issues are only really going to be fixable by doing things differently from the current power structure setup.
    The start would be for the people to begin to take the initiative back into their own hands, and elect individuals that stand on a new style of manifesto where they will directly represent the wants and needs of their respective constituents. And also include a contract in that manifesto giving those that voted for them the direct power of recall should the elected individual fail them or engage in corrupt activities making retention of their position untenable, and not require outside adjudication and influence to kick off a by-election.
    Analysis of percentage turnout at elections shows there is considerable evidence of voter disenfranchisement with the current Party dominated setup, so there is potential to develop something along the lines I have suggested. But one person cannot do that alone so it would require other people to pick up and run with such an initiative too.

    That said though, I have been saying this for years now (such as with prior btl discussion with Ebok comes to mind), but like so many other aspects of attempting to induce more diverse btl discussion on all sorts of topics, there is little take up… 🙁
    Dare I say ya’ll want to post far too much shiz on skipfires like twitter and facebook where visibility and responses are much reduced due to many folk (for good reasons) not using those platforms as they are so compromised. Instead you could be posting here and that would begin to at least drown out some of the yoon flame-baiting shite.
    The supposedly number 1 Scottish Indy site currently has more prominent btl posters that are self-declared yoons and live in England and slag off all things Scottish, rather than this place being chocka with Scots discussing stuff. That kind of says it all…

  26. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Almost there, help stop the UK selling weapons to Israel.

    “In the UK, all arms sales are made under licenses issued by the Secretary of State for International Trade who, according to the law, must not allow arms sales if there if there is a risk those weapons would be used to unlawfully harm civilians. ”

    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/disrupting-illegal-sales-of-uk/

  27. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake
    You seem overwhelmed by the audacity of such a crime.
    Even after 3 years of the Covid nonsense?

    Beams weighing many tons were imbedded in buildings some distances away. Could a fire do that?
    All seven WTC buildings were destroyed, plus later the Deutsche Bank building.

    Why was it destroyed?
    Maybe, Larry Silverstein who had just bought the complex and just had it insured would know.
    It was about to be condemned under asbestos regulations.
    Mr Silverstein got paid twice because two planes allowed him two insurance claims.

    Enron and Worldcom fraud evidence vanished with WTC7.

    Wealthy people are above the Law. They own the Law.
    Currently I read that Iraq is trading oil in US dollars. So, mission accomplished.

    Which architect fully explained the tower’s collapse?
    Remember Conservation of momentum

  28. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Any sign of the ham boys surrendering yet?

    Seems crystal clear to us alert Scots that all of the carnage and loss of innocent lives would end in a trice if they would just come out of their bunkers and tunnels with their hands in the air.

    They could even hand themselves over to a neutral third party to ensure the Israelis don’t gun them down. And they could bring the hostages with them. They just have to do that and the killing, on both sides, could be over by Monday.

    It takes two to tango, and two to maintain a shooting war. In the interests of the 2.5 million innocents of Gaza, it’s time for the ham boys to give up.

  29. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – Every engineering student in the world studies the properties of steel. Elastic deflection and plastic deflection. Plastic deflection is the problem and although steel melts at well over 1,000’C, plastic deflection occurs at about 60% of that temperature and, trust me, when that occurs the building must collapse. Every multi-storey steel framed building contains fire protection to the steel frame. That is sometimes sprayed-on as what is called an intumescent coating or is formed with fire-proof boards. You will not see that in your local Asda or B&Q because they are single story and the fire just burns through the roof. But, if there was other stories above containing office or residential, then it would be fire protected. Add to that the huge impact damage, and the plastic deflections caused by that, then there was absolutely no chance of the building surviving. Because the fire was in the centre of the building, the main locus of damage would be there and the building collapsed inwards towards the centre and pancaked down from the top. So, at Piper Alpha the steel melted and dropped into the sea, during 9/11 the steel didn’t melt, it just deformed and that happens as I said at a lower temperature. That’s all it needed to do and it was always going to happen. There was never any chance of these buildings not collapsing.

  30. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    It looks like Carlin has forgotten to take his medication….again!

    Johnlm making an erse of himself once more, irrespective of the subject. Nothing changes!

  31. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Billy Carlin

    I bought a pair of sunglasses in Istanbul.

    They were totally FAKE too.

    I think you’re on to something. Keep digging. But not like the ham boys, obviously.

  32. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian 8:34

    Thanks for continuing to stand up for the traditional Scottish values of knowledge, education and wisdom.

    Any new reader coming on here will recoil in horror at the proudly vaunted ignorance displayed by so many of the regulars. Thanks again for demonstrating that in Scotland, the flame of the rational enlightenment still flickers.

  33. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sven 6.17: och, it was no bother. I keep a wee archive of such stuff. How ironical that the CIA should have reputedly produced the silly phrase “conspiracy theory” when they have conspired against so many democratically-elected governments over the years, starting with Iran and Guatemala in 1953 and 1954 under Allen Dulles’s devious, cynical and amoral reign.

    @Ian B 7.17: yes, I’m disgusted that so many poppy-bedecked MPs seem happy to resist calls for an armistice just now (oh, the irony!) and instead enthusiastically embrace the brutal and indefensible collective punishment of the innocents in Gaza.

    Like Dan The Man, I wouldn’t quite say all humanity has failed, though: the numbers of protesters around the world has been heartening, as has the brave reaction of so many Jewish people both in Israel and in the diaspora, including many rabbis, who have always resisted Zionism because of its secularism and extreme nationalism.

    At times like these I would echo Dorothy Devine’s recent comment about how much we miss Wingers like Smallaxe with his wit and humanity, a man who loathed the so-called “elites” and whose motto was Peace Always.

  34. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan 8:28

    Any time you want to stand for election, then if I am eligible to vote for you, you will get my vote.

    But you will have to keep it real if you want to get anywhere.

    There are only two self-confessed Yoons living in England I can think of: Blimp & ASA.

    As for the lack of Scots discussing stuff, most posters here display the intellectual maturity of 12 YOs. Who would want to debate with the likes of that?

  35. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian B

    ” It’s hard to see how the UN can survive this – it’s going the same way as the League of Nations. ”

    Ditto NATO & ( possibly ) the E.U .

    The last few years in particular have exposed the impotence of these * entities * to prevent politically motivated conflict/crises ; their collusion in the conditions that give rise to the latter & their corruption/capture by corporate and other Interests .. eg , the corrosive influence of US ideologies + that country’s paranoid obsession with maintaining it’s global hegemony at any cost : even , it appears , at the cost of it’s own internal combustion .

    They all appear stuffed with ciphers , extremely well rewarded cutouts whose function is to never deviate from whatever agenda is being advanced by their paymasters ; however ludicrous , damaging or plainly a lie , and who don’t have a clue ( or interest even ) what ” acting for the welfare of the people at all times ” means .

    Clue ….it ain’t expending so much energy in supporting endless War ; and so little on working for Peace .

  36. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yosser
    You temperatures sound right
    The planes hit the 78 floor and above.
    That’s where the fires were.

    47 very large central columns with built in redundancy.
    Why freefall? Straight down? No resistance?

    There were people reporting explosions in the B2 basement levels.

  37. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – “Remember Conservation of momentum” – forgive me, perhaps I’m missing something here, but what has this got to do with a collapsing building?

    I’ll tell you the easy way to understand plastic deflection: when a blacksmith wants to bend steel, he heats it until it is red hot. That’s at about 600’C.

    Steel bends easily at that temperature and that’s how it works. Bending steel won’t support any load whatsoever and hence everything collapses because the columns won’t support load and the beams won’t support load.

    A normal fire has the potential to bring-down a steel framed building. One caused by 10,000 litres of burning kerosene and the impact of a passenger jet, will bring it down very easily.

  38. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm says

    “Remember conservation of momentum”

    Much as it pains me to say it, I think Johnlm might be onto something.

    The formula for momentum is: p = m * v

    Where p is the momentum, m is the mass, and v is the velocity.

    We can easily see that for the upper stories of a high-rise building, the velocity is zero, and thus, because anything multiplied by zero is still zero, the momentum of the upper storeys must also be zero.

    As Johnlm points out, that momentum must be conserved, and so, if the lower storeys are removed, the upper storeys, by conservation of momentum, will remain where they are.

    Phew, this is ground breaking stuff!

    The inevitable conclusion is that not only was the twin towers collapse on 9/11 FAKE, but so too must be the collapse of the Gaza high rise buildings. You read it first on Wings BTL folks!

  39. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – The redundancy is for vertical load, when a passenger jet hits them side-on, that’s a sideways load and no column or arrangement of columns would withstand that. The explosions in the basement were, I believe, the lifts hitting the lift pit floors after the lift cables had either been cut, or burnt through.

  40. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tinto Chiel 9:00 PM

    Have the ham boys been asked if they are interested in an armistice?

    What was their response, if they have been asked?

    Are you aware that the armistice we commemorate tomorrow came about because all belligerents in WW1 wanted it?

    Are you aware that ferocious fighting is ongoing in the bunkers and tunnels beneath Gaza? Who do you think the IDF is fighting – itself?

    Maybes you need to think things through.

  41. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    “You know what, Robbo, I don’t have a fucking clue.

    John Main @10.54am 17 August 2023

  42. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    “After every world war, Israel has grown.”

    The Balfour declaration was extracted when Britain was desperate and it was in return for the US entering WWI.(The fact that deal could even be offered says a lot about who really runs things.)

    The state of Israel was born only out of the ashes of 60 million people. No not a typo, sixty.

    And what will WWIII deliver… gosh would it be Greater Israel devoid of all the rag heads.

    WWI – Balfour Declaration
    WWII – Israel
    WWIII – Greater Israel minus all the ‘wogs’.

    And in case you are wondering everyone is a wog except them, including you.

    Some might start to think these mentalists are engineering these world wars to further their evil goals….

    But that would make Mel Gibson the greatest political scientist of the last 50 years. lol.

  43. Mark Beggan
    Ignored
    says:

    Change the record.

    Stick on the Pistols.

  44. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main: “Most posters here display the intellectual maturity of 12 YOs. Who would want to debate with the likes of that?”

    Oh, don’t be so hard on yourself, John, I’m sure those who try to debate honestly with you on here make allowances for your intellectual shortcomings and your contant arguing in bad faith.

  45. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac

    Never thought of myself as a wog, but I am very aware that myself and everybody dear to me is a kafir. Always have been, always will be.

    And almost certainly, so are you, and everybody you care about.

    That places you and me and our loved ones in a wee bit of bother, if we should ever be daft enough to lose essential focus on reality.

    Soz, but gonna have to invoke Stewie on your sorry ass: Educate yourself, dude!

  46. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    Humanity a pesky concept when it doesn’t apply to all sides of a conflict. Humzas mother in law gave a heart rendering call for humanity for the children and people of Gaza. She should start a crowd funder. I will donate £200 pounds to humanitarian causes for Gaza. But under one condition. Humza adopts a campaign to release Kfir. If Scotland can save one life then call for the release of a 9 month old baby. Humza has the spads and spin doctors to run an effective campaign unless humanity only extends to your side of the conflict. Which reminds me of a confrontation my wife had with an Iman at a Dundee open house event at a Mosque. I don’t think the Iman had ever met a strong willed highland wife. The Iman wouldn’t shake her hand. Cue a tense confrontation. Solved by a wise advisor of the Iman. We still have the Quran we were given at the time.

  47. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yosser
    The top sections of the World trade centres 1&2 above the fires fell onto the 80 odd floors below overcoming the resistance of the first floor beneath, and then the next and so on.
    At each stage there is a resistance from the standing part which absorbs the energy being delivered by the falling part.
    I’m no expert but I would expect the falling part to lose its momentum after a few flors and stop.
    If it did crush all the way to the ground it would take much more time than the 10-12 seconds observed.
    Look for videos dropping bowling balls through towers of panes of glass

  48. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan (8.28) –

    Thanks for that chunky and considered comment. Much to ponder.

    I can’t remember the last time I watched FMQs live, or anything else happening in ‘the chamber’. It’s just toe-curling rubbish.

    Sturgeon was nothing if not a gallus bessim and she usually had enough brassneck to give the impression of being in charge, even when she was misleading the place (what was it at the last count, three times, more?) And when she was losing and *seen to be losing* (that time Ruth Davidson had her bang to rights over whatever it was at the time) she would find someone to throw under the nearest bus, like Margaret Ferrier.

    But Humza? FFS…As Rev pointed out in a tweet, today or yesterday, he can’t even lie properly. He’s all over the place. And that business with Matheson that you pointed out? WTF is that all about? A millionaire representing Scottish Labour and a dodgy referee representing the Tories. No-one knows who represents the Libs. Oh, and I nearly forgot the Greens. There’s nothing left to say about yon throbbers, even thinking about them drains one of the will to breathe.

    If the whole lot of them could be exhibited a la Generation Game, on a slow conveyor belt, it would make a grimly entertaining horrorshow of amateur-hour narcissists, rogues and halfwits. And how many of them would any of us remember?

    The place has become an embarrassment.

    Tear it all down, start again. And get them out of that building. It’s quirky enough and would make a nice Secondary School or suchlike but the ‘real’ parliament should be up on Calton Hill.

    The whole thing reminds me of nothing more than that great exchange as captured on Zoom, when the Handforth Parish Council descended into chaos. At least that gave us all a wee lockdown laugh at a time when Nikla was doing her daily fearmongering.

    ‘You have no authority here Humza Yousaf. No authority at all.’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy3Kml-F7J0

  49. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I want to know what’s on Michael Matheson’s ipad.

    Also Morocco. Off the tourist trail. Why would anyone want to go there?

    Especially after the terrorist attack on the beach. Who could forget that horrific incident.

    It sounds to me like he’s got stoned on Moroccan hash. Gone back to his hotel room and clicked on some dodgy links!

    The Moroccan masturbator. Michael Matheson. I’m glad he’s cleaning up after himself and paying!

    ahaha.

  50. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac,

    the USA entered WW1 on 6th April 1917. The Balfour Declaration was signed on 2nd November 1917, six and a half months later.

    The two events are not linked.

  51. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Haha, good one!

    Hows about you list those posters who try to debate honestly with me, eh?

    Won’t take you long.

    Incidentally, you just missed a great chance yourself to be the change you claim you want to see. I asked you a number of straight forwards questions.

    And answers came there none.

    I’ll repeat one for you to bodyswerve or otherwise ignore:

    What’s the position of the ham boys on a cease fire, given that only one side ceasing fire tends not to work?

    Nae rush, tak yer time.

  52. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Stephen Flynn.

    “I can tell you very clearly”

    He always wants to convey his message of lies, very clearly, very clearly, very clearly.

    And if you don’t understand then you’re a moron.

  53. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Musings…

    Remember we keep getting told that for Scotland to return to self-governance, our new status would require to be recognised by the “international community”…
    Is that the same international community that have stoked the fires of war and can’t bring themselves to tell some countries to stop warring and killing innocents? Coz if so, then I suggest that invalidates the need to recognised by that bunch of clearly deranged psycho tossers.

  54. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian (8.34) –

    That may well be in the Top Ten most flagrantly ignorant and misleading comments ever published on this site in the past decade.

    Utter bilge from start to finish, and you know it.

    And so does yer pal Main.

    Throbbers.

  55. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Louis Brandeis, Woodrow Wilson and the Balfour Declaration.
    There could have been a deal.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/1878450

  56. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 10:04 pm

    “the ‘real’ parliament should be up on Calton Hill.”

    Hou no uise thon auld pairlament up thair in Pairlament Square? Juidges whit bide thair aye sling a deifie tae mony a Treaty o Union abuise an can shuirly fund anither coorthoose elsewhaur.

  57. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @David Hannah (10.18) –

    Flynn will go far.

    The ladies (and some men) like nothing more than a Brynner lookalike who can roll his r’s with confidence.

  58. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @John Main 10.08: such playground inanities like your “ham boys” in such an appalling situation as the relentless carpet-bombing of defenceless civilians just remind me that your contributions here do not deserve further consideration or the dignity of reply, as I’m pretty sure a one-sided attempt at a ceasefire from the Palestinians, who lack an air force, navy or army against the forces of the IDA and the huge resources of the USA, would simply result in even more murderous attacks from an increasingly emboldened and deranged Netanyahu.

  59. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan,

    if you feel no need of recognition for an iScotland by the international community, let us know how you think the perhaps top 5 questions are going to be sorted:

    1. Which countries are iScotland going to trade with, and under what mechanism?
    2. Which countries are going to take payment in whatever the new iScotland currency is?
    3. How is the new iScotland going to assert its rights to resources within maritime boundaries that the international community wouldn’t recognise?
    4. What would you propose is the mechanism for settling disputes between iScotland and anywhere else on the planet?
    5. How would iScots travel outside of the country if they ain’t got an iScotland passport that other countries accept?

  60. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    If it isn’t ‘genocide’, then what is it?

    This wee collection of statements from senior Israelis suggests that they’re not exactly shy about their intent.

    https://twitter.com/kennardmatt/status/1723107859171307990

  61. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Republic 6:01

    We should be paying close attention to what’s happening closer to home in Prestwick too & the sudden influx of Yanks sniffing around the SNP.

    Who was Annie borjesson for example..
    Police Scotland refused an autopsy report & insisted it was a suicide (found dead on the beach) Family insisted that was wrong & her digital devices were wiped clean. Police insisted she’d not made any calls for three days before her death – the families devices confirmed otherwise as she’d called them & presented digital proof. Police Scotland still fobbed everyone off & insisted the case was closed.

    Cue a string of unknown randos claiming she was *depressed* to back up the suicide theory.

    But suspiciously, she was in correspondence with an “investigative journalist” who spilled to her they were working on a story at Prestwick airport that was huge. US policy to circumvent international laws & security services by transporting & torture of suspects by stopping & refueling at Prestwick airport. A deal done under Thatcher & beefed up under Bush/Blair.

    It turns out she was the investigative journalist all along & it was actually her story, writing under her middle name.

    Twice she was filmed on CCTV trying to withdraw money but unsuccessful (her bank account stopped?) & Filmed around Prestwick. Day later she was dead on the beach. Her folder containing all her notes & personal stuff that she carried everywhere was missing. Her devices wiped clean. Family fobbed off by an abrasive Police Scotland.

    The family did a reenactment from CCTV footage & the times didn’t make sense. She’d have had to run at breakneck speed to match the timings on the tape but she is clearly seen walking in the original through Prestwick – either to meet someone or trying to get home.

    Police Scotland said she drowned. Swedish undertaker said she’d strange marks all down her body as if she’d been beaten or tortured. Swedish government refused to get involved & investigate because they didn’t want to upset *foreign relations* Case closed.

    Seems it’s not just trident shit we have here but teams of operatives & Police Scotland are knee deep in it with Prestwick airport.

  62. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Maybes you should pay more attention.

    I didn’t call for a “one sided attempt at a cease fire”. I suggested that the ham boys surrender themselves to a trusted third party, along with the hostages. I have some confidence that if they did that, not only would the Israelis permit them to live, in return for destroying the terrorist infrastructure, but the killing of innocent Palestinians would immediately stop.

    Which is what you purport to be exercised about, eh?

    Anyways, you continue to concern yourself with my lack of respect for the kidnappers of 6 month old babies, and the gang rapists who shoot their captives once the thrill wears off.

    Mind an wear a semmit on yer pedestal, must be damn cauld up there.

  63. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto Chiel

    Exactly. & Lest we forget *settlers* can arm themselves like militia & it’s compulsory to be trained. Everyone is a terr*rist by order of the government.

    That’s what boils my kettle when ppl try make the excuses it’s *both sides* or to let them slog it out & may the best man win. Utterly deranged wackadoos.

    One is armed to the teeth & the other one isn’t. Breaking every international law on the rules of combat & engagement.

    It’s pathetic that they swallow this pish, or worse, think we’re thick enough to swallow it too.

    They’re pathetic.

  64. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan 10:19

    Didn’t take me long, but I withdraw my intention to vote for you, so you better just stick to posting on here.

    Bottom line, anybody ever kidnaps somebody important to me, maybes a grand-daughter, maybes a kid, and hides them away in some bunker, I will want my government to do whatever it takes to get them back.

    You’ve now demonstrated you’re not up to a challenge like that one, soz.

  65. Billy Carlin
    Ignored
    says:

    Den 5.34pm

    “@Billy Carlin , you need help. Btw there is a guy in the US called Alex Jones who used to come out with Bollocks like you. He is looking at financial ruin I’d watch what I was writing if I was you. Fuckin psycho”

    Alex Jones is either the controlled opposition that many people are claiming online giving out SOME truth along with a lot of DISINFO or really thick because his Court cases were FAKE as a warning for everyone who are really exposing the TRUTH to shut up or they will do the same to them as well. He was being “done” by a CRISIS ACTOR in the totally FAKE Sandy Hook shooting that was done like all of the others to try and disarm the American people. Millions of people all over the world have all of the EVIDENCE that Sandy Hook was FAKE as we downloaded all of the videos, books etc exposing it all before it was blocked from Youtube etc. That school was shut for 8 years before the “shooting” took place with absolutely NO internet traffic in all of that time and with out of date and totally against the law disabled signs and parking bays etc and the classrooms and hallways weer full of stuff as it was being used by the local council/school board for storage and was shut down as a school because it was full of asbestos. You have got to ask yourself why Jones NEVER used any of this EVIDENCE in his case like me and everyone else who has it would have done to defend ourselves.

    The big difference between me and you and everyone else on here is I can verify everything that I say under the penalty of perjury in a court of law with EVIDENCE. I cannot help it if Stu decides not to post my replies with links to some of the EVIDENCE – I used to not trust Stu as I said to him years ago via email as I thought that he was just another one protecting the SNP and their corruption back then when people like me were exposing it but I have been telling others that he is doing a great job of exposing them these days but not allowing my replies and links to EVIDENCE makes me wonder if this is just another Alex Jones etc type site.

    Tell you what Den and the others that slag me off and call me a psycho etc – lets get together somewhere with all of our EVIDENCE re the things I have been commenting on – set up a COMMON LAW Court of 12 or 15 or so independent jurors – there is a Peoples Common Law Court online and I am really sure they would set one up and I will give you £10,000 if you can prove everything that I have said is false or you give me £10,000 when I present all of my EVIDENCE exposing everything that I have said is the TRUTH.

    It is funny how the people who watch TV or read newspapers are the dumbest people on the planet clueless as to what is really going on in the world and what the TRUTH is and these same people like yourself slag off the people like me who spend all of our time actually using our brains to research and CRITICALLY THINK for ourselves as being dumb.

    “Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood schools, and the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool” – Plato (Greek Philosopher) 427 – 347 BC

  66. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto Chiel

    & Lest we forget *s*ttlers* can arm themselves like m*litia & it’s compulsory to be trained by order of the government.

    That’s what boils my kettle when ppl try make the excuses it’s *both sides* or to let them slog it out & may the best man win. Utterly deranged wackadoos.

    One is armed to the teeth – the other one isn’t. Breaking every international l*w on the rules of c*mbat & e*gagement.

    It’s pathetic that they swallow this rubbish, or worse, think we’re thick enough to swallow it too.

    They’re pathetic.

    FFS mod..sigh..

  67. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm 10:00

    “I’m no expert but”

    Aff ye gang noo, an read To A Louse, paying parteecular attention tae the final verse.

  68. Derek
    Ignored
    says:

    I break my rule…

    A Scot Abroad says:

    1. Which countries are iScotland going to trade with, and under what mechanism?

    Any and all that trade with other countries.

    2. Which countries are going to take payment in whatever the new iScotland currency is?

    Any and all that accept that other currencies exist.

    3. How is the new iScotland going to assert its rights to resources within maritime boundaries that the international community wouldn’t recognise?

    The boundaries already exist. The only one open to argument is that fanny Blair’s re-jigging of the sea border.

    4. What would you propose is the mechanism for settling disputes between iScotland and anywhere else on the planet?

    Sit down and talk about it.

    5. How would iScots travel outside of the country if they ain’t got an iScotland passport that other countries accept?

    They couldn’t, unless there was an agreement. How would iEnglanders travel outside of the country if they ain’t got an iEngland passport that other countries accept?*

    *Apart from claiming a military need and randomly invading somewhere foreign.

  69. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Billy Carlin 12:05

    You need to do more research on that quote from Plato.

    Millions of people all around the world now know it’s a FAKE. It’s Dan Brown, probably.

  70. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    Congratulations to the Dunfermline and Dundee Unted fans for a perfectly observed pre match remembrance ceremony. I didn’t know that a Dunfermline Directors Grandad was awarded the VC in WW1. Good match and a credit to Scottish Football. I am more connfident about attending the Armistice service tomorrow. Some people on here conflate the 11 11 11 Armistice service with the Remembrance Sunday service. Not everybody goes to Church hence the need for an Armistice service.

  71. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    EFTA

  72. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Ass reminds me of the dumb yanks. Nothing else exists in the world outside their bedroom door. Lol!

    PlayStation asswipes.

    There’s a big bad world out there & they all manage fine.

    The world extends beyond the EU.

    The UN has lost its way. It needs to man up or be erased & replaced by a system that will. It’s totally corrupted & captured by the yanks & should be put on notice. That can only end one way.. a completely new & reorganised int organisation.

  73. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Nitter.net “In Glasgow an official Police Scotland hate crime reporting centre is a sex toy and fetish wear shop that sells My Little Ponies that perform fellatio.”

    Good god. Sack the chief of police. Get this out there in the press. Absolutely sickening what’s going on in this country.

    SNP cops. Go Woke. Go Broke.

  74. GUJAR KHAN
    Ignored
    says:

    @John Main
    Not that 2 wrongs make a right, but any particular reason why you fail to mention the ~ 4500 Palestinian hostages kept in Israeli jails for donkeys years? Of course Israel calls them “terrorists” but vast majority of them are just resistance fighters. AFAIK Hamas is willing to release hostages in exchange for Palestinian hostages. Sounds a fair deal, no?

  75. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood – Ruby is saying: “This nutter has been spamming this site for years with his collapsing schools and now he’s spamming about collapsing tower blocks”.

  76. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    spare us your thoughts until you have achieved something for humanity that’s worthy.

    Not a good look to spend your life sitting on the sidelines of uselessness and just throw rocks at those who actually do something useful.

  77. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad said;

    “spare us your thoughts until you have achieved something for humanity that’s worthy.”

    ASA, spare us your thoughts until the rest of us consider them worthy of expression.

  78. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    A career spent as a thief and corporate boot boy is probably not someone to rely on for moral guidance.

  79. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    REPUBLICOFSCOTLAND.
    As i suspect the only person here who was actually born in the ancient Near East i.e Levant/greater Syria/Mesopotamia i recommend you extend your reading further than the usual sources western people tend to access which tend to overplay the colonial element and the wonderful communal harmony.
    Peoples of various ethnicities and religious cultures did live together, because they had to, but not without considerable friction, bloody pogroms against Christians, Jews and others were frequent as non muslim minorities tended not to be trusted. Local rulers attitudes could also be a determinant.
    Lands conquered by the Muslim Arabs became the property of the «ummah» and all within were subject to Islamic legal systems. Only in the later Ottoman empire did the millet arrangement which gave minorities some confessional legal rights obtain and that irregularly as shari’a was the supreme law of the sultanate until its abolition under Atatürk’s notional secular republic.
    I belong to an ancient minority whose ancestral homeland is now «occupied» by Kurds, Turks and Arabs. Like the Jews we are somewhat scattered. I identify with their situation if not always with aspects of Israeli policy. But, HAMAS does not want Jews in their visionary Palestine as they are an offence against the ummah.
    Their documentation says so, even in English versions.
    Enough from me for today.

  80. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    “The foul allegations of rape have been dropped by the Isr@eli government. The forty beheaded babies has been downscaled to one dead baby, not beheaded, and killed by persons unknown. Two thirds of Isr@elis killed on October 7 were military personnel. The killers of the remaining one third are definitively revealed to have been in part the Isr@eli armed forces themselves. Those with influence who spread the propaganda to the contrary stand exposed as War Criminals and now much blood stains their character for ever. It is a spot which will not out. ”

    twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1722961911619145874

    Genocide & ethnic cleansing based on barefaced lies.

    I wonder what else they lie about.

  81. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    U*raine.

    They’re another that upped the propaganda on babies & rape.

    The Western media has been full of propaganda.

    It’s ironic given who they always blamed for that.

  82. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac,

    George Galloway has scarcely been truthful about anything in his life before, so I don’t know why you parrot his Twitter. He just makes things up as he goes along, always for his contrary political purpose.

  83. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    ASS has scarcely been truthful about anything ……… He just makes things up as he goes along, always for his contrary political purpose.

  84. dasBlimp
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah says:
    11 November, 2023 at 12:41 am
    Nitter.net “In Glasgow an official Police Scotland hate crime reporting centre is a sex toy and fetish wear shop that sells My Little Ponies that perform fellatio.”

    Fake news! I demand you publish the shops address here for verification. And, do the ponies come in a range of colours?

  85. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    The despicable lie about the 40 beheaded babies has been completely discredited. No matter, widely spread by the Western media, it served its evil purpose. Quite a few ignoramuses are still shouting about it. After all it’s now perfectly fine to reduce Gaza to rubble and slaughter thousands of innocent children, if they behead babies, right? Less than 100 years since people behaved that badly, we’re at it again.

  86. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 11:24 pm

    “Which countries are iScotland going to trade with”

    Scotland produces many of the things most countries want to buy – whisky, oil & gas, renewable energy, fish, agriculture.

    An iScotland’s exports (incl renewable energy by 2030) of over £100bn would amount to almost one third of current UK exports. Not bad for 9% of UK population. That means an iScotland would have at least four times the per-capita exports of UK.

    Postcolonial theory tells us that colonialism is primarily about economic plunder of other peoples territories (Fanon; Memmi).

  87. Daisy Walker
    Ignored
    says:

    A wee shout out to Craig Murray currently in exile due to state harrassment/false allegations of terrorism.

    His most recent blog states that his twitter account has been hacked, and that given the hacker was able to change all security measures (useername, password, etc) in one go (which normal people have to do in set stages) it would appear to be someone with Security Service type access who has done it.

    If your reading this Craig, and since your in Switzerland… one way you can verify your new twitter identity is to name and shame the alphabet women. Willing to bet the hacker will not be willing to risk doing the same.

    Pretty sure you won’t need to do this, just threaten to do so.

    Keep well.

  88. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird,

    whisky is a take it or leave it commodity. Nothing but barley and water, it can be made anywhere. It’s only the word whisky that puts an extra £10 on a bottle. Meaningless.

    Oil and gas are going out of fashion. They won’t go away entirely, but Scotland’s are among the most expensive to extract in the world per barrel, or barrel equivalent, so as demand drops on a global basis, the North Sea is going to be the first to be closed down because there’s more profit to be made elsewhere. Fish and agriculture are negligible.

    So tell us about this renewable energy. Who is Scotland going to sell it to, and who doesn’t have the same resources? And why, if they have the same resources, would they buy it from Scotland rather than generate it themselves?

  89. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    You must be a fckd up type of Scot to not only reduce her status within the UK but to also downplay her potential too.

    Other countries would cheer Scotland becoming independent & the only question they’d ask is what the fck took us so long?

    “Ach, Asda was maybe gonnie put their prices up & even tho England was shafting us out of £billions per yr – they were giving us £2,000 per head back! Bargain!”

    Yer not Scots eh? Trouble for you if you are is that yer not English either & never will be, jock.

  90. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow, that’s a new one to me – 40 beheaded babies – wow.

    Every day a school day on Wings BTL.

    But still, somebody has to say this, you’re a bad boy, Luigi, for spreading that.

  91. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac says

    “Out damn Spot”

    “But don’t shite on the lawn. Scratch at the door when you’re done”

  92. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    I watched an old Sheridan documentary last night. I’d never seen it before & that whole episode passed me by..

    FFS the lengths they went to there too. Footage of his wife interrogated as if she was a terrorist FFS! Spouting bollocks at her about the IRA..

    Over a swingers club? FFS. Pathetic.

    They’re corrupted ta fck & will do anything to remove a threat to their theft.

    They can’t remove 5 million.

    Stay safe Craig..

  93. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Yawn…

    GB Grid: Last Month’s Interconnector and Transfer Totals

    Interconnectors:
    France: 726.00GWh
    Northern Ireland: -210.33GWh
    Netherlands: 52.10GWh
    Ireland: -212.43GWh
    Belgium: 171.04GWh
    Norway: 495.54GWh

    System Transfers:
    Scot->Eng: 1.69TWh

    https://nitter.net/UK_Imports/status/1719660656096387394

  94. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @TURABDIN 9:37

    Thanks for your continued efforts to post reasoned and facts-based information on here.

    Those of us who care about Scotland’s image, as it is projected to the world from places like Wings BTL, must just continue to do our best to keep things real.

    Scotland may indeed be a free, Independent country one day. Serious Scots and Scots sympathisers must do everything in their power to ensure the moonhowlers are kept at extreme arm’s length in the run up to any decision on that epochal event, otherwise a solid majority of rational Scots will continue to write off the Indy movement as the domain of hysterical fantasists.

    And as a result, it will be “No” all over again.

  95. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah @ 00.41.

    I believe that the only official Hate Crime Reporting site in Glasgow is Granite House (Fourth Floor) in Stockwell St, Dave.
    Just another false urban myth about the “sex shop.”

  96. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Whisky can’t be made anywhere. They tried it.
    Scotland has the best water.
    Ireland was also blessed with it’s unique taste.

    Fishing & agriculture isn’t negligible either.
    Scotland the brand is world class (before the jack was slapped on it) & fishing rights in Scotlands VAST seas is very lucrative – ask a Tory, they caused such an EU stooshie over it during Brexit. It’s not just the fishing – it’s the rights to fish here.

    You worry about England. It has feck all. Tea & Jam isn’t in such high demand these days.

    You know feck all about Scotland.

    ASS

  97. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Geri says

    “they’d ask what the feck took us so long”

    We’d point at you and others like you and explain how your antics over a decade poisoned the well of Indy support amongst a sizeable bloc of Scottish voters.

    Believe me, they’d understand and sympathise.

  98. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan – 1TW = 1,000000000kW. It all goes south, as you say.

    I suspect Mr Main is right about fish, agriculture and whisky. The demand for oil and gas though is not diminishing. It is the supply from fields located in stable political environments that is diminishing. If you have your own oil and gas fields, then you cannot get any better than that, can you.

  99. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    “Which countries are iScotland going to trade with”

    It depends partly on how Scotland leaves. If it was by illegal means then the major customers would leave well alone. The EU in particular would reject Scottish advances. It wouldn’t want to encourage its own regions breaking up into ever smaller entities.

    As for the rest, sure, ome countries will deal, but the weaker they estimate you and the more desperate you are, the lower the price they’ll set on your goods and services. You may get a greater share of the sale of your assets but get less because they’re not worth as much.

  100. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    You have to laugh at 3 property owning A Scot Abroad, living in England but still keeping 2 other properties up here in a Scotland that he constantly demeans.
    And lest we forget the self proclaimed fat bastard dasBlimp who is also down in England and admits England is fucked. But rather than the pair of numpties trying to commit time and effort to sorting issues down south where they have a vote which might actually help their beloved UK thrive for all those that live in it, they spend their time on a site which is meant to promote Scotland returning to self-governance.

    Then you have the schizophrenic like John Main whining about nearly everything to do with our crap politics, but when he’s offered a chance to actually be part of a new initiative which could create an empowered collective to actually deliver the voice of the people, he shits himself and backs down because he seems to lack the ability to think through, and that in the scheme of things it would actually help address most of the issues he endlessly whines about.

  101. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “We should be paying close attention to what’s happening closer to home in Prestwick too & the sudden influx of Yanks”

    Geri.

    The dis-united kingdom is utterly compromised when it comes to the USA, it is in effect the 51st state, and a huge unsinkable aircraft carrier for stop over flights bound for Europe and further afield, including rendition flights headed to and from torture dungeons in the likes of Egypt.

    The SNP is also compromised by the Americans, several including the current FM have been sponsored by the US to head there for “training” Sturgeon also spoke at the Henry Jackson Society, with great gusto, her heroine is Hillary Clinton and she was invited to join the Trilateral Commission, you can’t join it without being asked first.

    On US personnel in the dis-united kingdom only Japan and Germany have more in their countries, last year nuclear capable US bombers B52’s were stationed in England.

    There’s over 130 US military personnel floating around the dis-united kingdom and no one knows where they are and what they are up to, not even MPs.

    “1 in 6 active-duty US airmen overseas are deployed in Britain
    US Air Force has more active-duty military personnel in Britain than 40 US states

    In December US began basing next-generation F-35 fighter jets in Suffolk, the first in Europe

    US military has 100 personnel based in London, including 52 in the American embassy

    It also has 135 others at multiple undisclosed locations across the UK”

    CND also called the UK a unsinkable US aircraft carrier.

    Believe it or not but bombing missions on Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan left from England.

    https://www.declassifieduk.org/us-air-force-deployment-in-britain-is-third-largest-in-world/

  102. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri, whole whole of the UK fishing industry is worth about 1.4 billion GDP. The UK banking and financial sector delivers over 173 billion GDP. Which country has most of which sector? What would Scotland’s financial sector be worth?

  103. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Coruscatingly critical article on Unherd today, “The absurdity of Scotland’s feminist foreign policy”.

    Well worth a look, even if you don’t read the article, because it is headed up by a brilliant pic of the fraudulently elected New Pretender.

    From the evidence of that pic, I reckon there is defo scope for HY to play a walk-on comedy brush salesman in a future episode of Still Game. He won’t need to backhand or guilt trip the auditioning panel, he will get the part on merit.

    And that, for him, will be a first.

  104. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    In a blind tasting in 2017, of 100 different “whiskies” from around the world, the top 3 selected by a panel of experts were two Japanese and one Scots whisky. So it’s not as different as you think.

    The Scottish fishing fleet and pier side and processing infrastructure generated £580 million in 2022. This value is diminishing on a long term basis by around 2% annually. The most lucrative catch was mackerel, but that isn’t popular outside of the U.K. and Ireland. There’s just not that much value in fishing. Certainly not enough to keep iScotland going, and if iScotland were to join the EU and hence the CFP, much of the fish would be caught by continental trawlers and never contribute a penny to Scotland.

    You have to be realistic.

  105. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    As and when the dissolution of the UK occurs.

    Which countries are an iKingdom of England going to trade with?

    The Kingdom of Scotland has a much better resources to population figure than the Kingdom of England.

    (Old stats so may not be 100% accurate but it gives the gist.)

    KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND WITH ONLY 9% OF THE UK POPULATION HAS:

    32% of the land area.
    61% of the sea area.
    90% of the fresh water.
    65% of the natural gas production
    96.5% of the crude oil production.
    47% of the open cast coal production
    81% of the untapped coal reserves
    62% of the timber production
    46% of the total forest area
    92% of the hydro electric production
    40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
    60% of the fish landings
    30% of the beef herd
    20% of the sheep herd
    9% of the dairy herd
    10% of the pig herd
    15% if the cereal holdings
    20% of the potato holdings
    90% of the whisky industry
    70% of gin production

    KINGDOM OF ENGLAND WITH 91% OF THE UK POPULATION ONLY HAS:

    68% of the land area.
    39% of the sea area.
    10% of the fresh water.
    35% of the natural gas production
    3.5% of the crude oil production.
    53% of the open cast coal production
    19% of the untapped coal reserves
    38% of the timber production
    54% of the total forest area
    8% of the hydro electric production
    60% of the wind wave and solar energy production
    40% of the fish landings
    70% of the beef herd
    80% of the sheep herd
    91% of the dairy herd
    90% of the pig herd
    85% if the cereal holdings
    80% of the potato holdings
    10% of the whisky industry
    30% of gin production

  106. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake

    You’re deluded.

    They’d bite the hand of Scotland.
    We have a wealth of resources.

    & Just last night I mentioned the EU trading with Isis, ya eejit! LOL!

    Countries will deal with who they like. Fck little old england – as Liam Fox can verify. They have nothing the world wants. A spot of money laundering is about it.

  107. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    War mongers favouring wars and union minded actors controlling a site that supports Scottish independence.
    Diverting the topics of anything that relates to Scotlands independence subjects,

    I say this for this animosity controlling group on here their smart at what they set out to do.

  108. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Cheers Dan

    I see you gave me a bigger paragraph than Blimp, and a much bigger para than ASA.

    BTW, both schizophrenia and obesity are medical conditions. They really should be off limits for use as personal insults.

  109. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Main

    Nothing has poisoned Independence other than the voting franchise which must now be re-evaluated.

    Nae luck, sunshine.

    It should’ve been that way from the very start.

    It’s Scots sovereignty.
    It’s Scots constitution.
    It’s Scots treaty with the union.

    Zilch to do with outsiders with ‘opinions’

    Only Scots shall decide next time.

  110. dasBlimp
    Ignored
    says:

    And lest we forget the self proclaimed fat bastard dasBlimp who is also down in England and admits England is fucked. But rather than the pair of numpties trying to commit time and effort to sorting issues down south where they have a vote which might actually help their beloved UK thrive for all those that live in it, they spend their time on a site which is meant to promote Scotland returning to self-governance.

    Thanks for the laugh, Dan, that is the main reason I come here: for a daily chuckle. I like the idea of me and ASA sorting ‘things out down South’. LOL. Believe me, I don’t come here for tips on how to do that. As for your comment about wasting my time here. Evidently, aren’t we all? All our Grandkids Grandkids will be dust before Scotland is ever independent and I think that is a shame. Don’t you worry about things down South. ASA and I are on the case.

  111. dasBlimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan says:
    11 November, 2023 at 12:11 pm
    As and when the dissolution of the UK occurs.

    Which countries are an iKingdom of England going to trade with?

    What is the point of this repetitive post?

    Bragging rights? At least we’ve got more pigs than you have ner ner nuh ner ner. Mmmmmmmm pork.

  112. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan

    Only 10% fresh water? Wow!

    *Adds bottled water to our exports to England after Indy* lol
    They are on record saying it’s a commodity now – not a human right. Even more wow when they’ve only 10% ot it!

    That reminds me – I need to pressure wash my vast driveway this week. Maybe fit in the Wheely bins and the windies tae..

  113. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri, the EU won’t recognise iScotland unless it leaves after a sanctioned referendum. It would encourage its own seperatists. It’s not in its own interests to accept you. It might trade with you but on WTO rules. In any negotiation it would be tough on Scotland because it can. It would want to fish in your waters as part of any trade deal.

    The rUK would also drive a hard bargain.

  114. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan.

    The potential for growing businesses in a independent Scotland and becoming self sufficient as our first policy prior to trading is encouraging,

    That is not to dismiss trading with other small Countries neghbouring us as we grow our economy.
    With our own currency as other Countries do, especially as America and The rest of Britain throw all the petro dollars and sterling in to wars destroying and busting their own economy from within,
    Stretching their resources beyond their financial ability.
    We see this in the EU countries like Germany, France etc right now, sacrificing themselves and collapsing their countries industries for war.

    Scotland has potential and resources with a small population and preferably its own currency not attached to these sinking ships.

    America, Britain and the EU all following the same agendas will out run their and friends and fight themselves into oblivion overstretched as do all great empires do.
    Follow Rome and fall like Rome.

  115. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Oil and gas weren’t bad when the powers that be promoted diesel car production and gas powered central heating during the arse end of last century.
    How long till the pendulum swings back from bad to good.

    I’m reminded of this 2 min clip from the film Sleeper which provides a potential change in outlook on what is considered good and bad.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=485Em2JF34M

    The Yin and Yang of life.
    Spent another couple of hours this morning shaping complex intersecting angles in rigid board insulation around my skylight windaes to improve my property’s thermal efficiency.
    And to counter that planet saving effort, I’m nipping out to get an old V8 petrol engine running for a pal. lol

  116. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Too late Geri – “Highland Spring” has been owned by the Arabs for more than a decade. Scottish water’s all the rage in Riyadh.

  117. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Where’s Chris Cairns these days? More days off than Santa Clause lately… 😉

  118. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan, yet again, the useless list of out of date figures, with no financial values attached. Uninformative of debate.

  119. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ dasBlimp

    I’ll point out that pork needs cooked so you’ll leccy to do that. 😉

  120. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan,

    Thanks for the list Dan, it reminds Scotland and its people that it is not to Wee, to Stupid and to Small to be successful as a growing independent Country.
    Sadly it also reminds unionists why they are to Scared to go it alone as only England.
    It has nothing to live of off except vampiring Scotland, Wales and Ireland,

  121. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri.

    Ask the Question,

    Why was the 1707 Scottish parliament Dissolved by proclamation in 1707 in Westminster,
    but the parliament of England was not Dissolved in Westminster on the same date?

  122. Confused
    Ignored
    says:

    There is a -fascinating- clash of realities being played out in the streets right now between people who just want to remember “men who died for freedom” and another group angry at “you bastards who helped to destroy my country”.

    – the former, are not necessarily bad people, just ignorant, no real fault of their own and have been fed a child’s cartoonlike / Commando comic book version of ENGLISH=BRITISH history that no one else in the world believes in, for they have experienced it all at the sharp end.

    First of all, the men who died

    “we could be in Palestine, with the boys from the Mersey, the Thames and the Tyne … ”

    – some of these guys were dupes, some were coerced, conned, some were just dumb and really into it, swallowed all the propaganda. The loss of life is a tragedy, but they never fought for “freedom” (not. even. once.) and on the flipside, where are the memorials to the victims of the empire?

    If there was one actor more responsible than any for the creation of Israel, it is Britain; all that Lawrence of Arabia shite, the Balfour Declaration, Rothschilds money – they supported zionism from the start, even offered the jews Uganda (shades of the Madadgascar Plan), but in the end facilitated the importation of hostile aliens – violently aggressive ethno-racial supremacists, mind (Leviticus, Deuteronomy, the whole of the Talmud and Shulchan Aruch – true “hate” literature) onto an unsuspecting group of natives.

    – the jewish sttlrs came in, lived on the coast and just said they were minding their own businees, growing oranges and studying the torah (arming themselves to the teeth, building fortresses and getting ready for the big day). And now the natives live on reservations – but what about the multicultural civic nationalism? Well, some people have other ideas.

    The Scots should watch out we don’t become the NEW PALESTINIANS, in our own land.

    There is a story about a guy who gets sent to inspect an abattoir; it is all in order, but he says to the manager(“any more questions”) at the end :

    – how do you deal with the smell?

    and the manager goes : WHAT SMELL?

    All englishman and most people in the UK, suffer from the “anglo reality distortion field” – stupid and smart, young and old, common and upper class, north and south – it infects their every thought; Scots also get infected by this, but it gets called “the cringe”. The ARDF is a set of ingrained beliefs, never stated, which warps any intellectual discourse or utterance of any englishman – most tellingly, it resists all facts presented to it in opposition to its core beliefs, and presents all manner of instinctive deflection and coping mechanism (e.g. red dress woman squirming when confronted by Jim Rogers basic facts). An exhaustive list of false beliefs would make for an enormous post, but in summary these are axiomatic (i.e. taken to be absolutely true without proof, or requiring it)

    – the english are the best people on earth, and england the best country, who are the good guys of history, who never did anything wrong and anything bad was due to – foreigners – and silly people who misunderstood our profoundly altruistic motives; the empire was a civilising mission, we created western civilisation and never made a penny out of it

    – it wasn’t us, honest

    these basic thoughts serve to scrub any conflicting ideas, which is why you should never read their history books, it is narcissistic, self glorifying shite. The Anglo is the prime villain of history responsible, at root, for every evil thing that has happened in the past 1000 years. And we have been shackled to them for the past 300 years – do we not deserve a rest? Being handcuffed to a kleptomaniac psychopath, is that not “cruel and unusual punishment”?

    The people just out to remember the dead, see Israel as “nothing to do with us, we did nothing” and “it was a long time ago” and “why make a fuss”.

    The whole of English history stinks, stinks like a bloody abattoir.

    – and once you have “noticed” the smell, you can never un-smell it, you just want to “get out”.

    That Tommy Robinson “england till I die” is right in the mix tells us a lot – the english have never developed a valid nationalism distinct from british imperialism; the morris dancer turns into flashman within a millisecond.

  123. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks @ 12.38.

    I believe that our host posted a couple of days ago that Chris was recovering from injury.

  124. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “Geri, the EU won’t recognise iScotland unless it leaves after a sanctioned referendum.”

    Pat Blake.

    Sanctioned by whom, Westminster? dream on according to the UN charter the laws of the state which is being seceded from can play no part in the cessation of the people wishing to leave.

    In other words we don’t need Westminster’s permission to leave the dis-united kingdom, international recognition will be forthcoming after a 50+1% of a vote win on ditching the union.

  125. Brian Doonthetoon
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Breeks.

    Rev Stu reported a few days ago that CC had had a golf-related accident, which limited his drawing abilities.

  126. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Confused.

    It was predicted by many over on Craig Murray’s blog, that right wing thugs would be bussed in to cause violence and unrest at the Stop the Slaughter demo on Saturday.

    The idea or end goal if you like is to ban these Pro-Palestinian marches altogether in the dis-untied kingdom, no doubt there will be a clear photo of someone vandalising a monument to Armistice day holding a Palestinian flag, and the complicit media will run with it on their front pages tomorrow.

  127. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Breeks – if you’ve ever had, or lived with, someone with “a bad back” then you’ll know it can be crippling. The Rev said that Chris can’t sit at his drawing board even after several weeks so he must be in a very bad way, poor soul.

  128. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    11 November, 2023 at 12:54 pm
    “Sanctioned by whom, Westminster?”

    Yes. The UN would not accept a political party using a basic election as a referendum to separate. See Catalan or Basque attempts at freedom. If Spain doesn’t grant those areas a binding referendum, as far as the EU and UN are concerned, it’s just a local problem. The closest to a breakaway that has been recently accepted by the international community was the annexing of parts of Ukraine but only because they attached themselves to Russia. The UN etc didn’t want to interfere because of the aggression by Russia. That hasn’t ended well.

  129. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “America, Britain and the EU all following the same agendas”

    Indeed they are James Che, and little old Scotland is along for the ride.

    For instance BAP insures that most new up and coming Scottish politicians are US friendly, this includes loyalty to Nato.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/British-American_Project

    Scotland lies at the base of the Atlantic defensive arc for North America, whilst Iceland lies at the top, Scottish independence could see this change, it might no longer allow US interests to be put first, along with access to Faslane. This is why Washington would in reality never support an independent Scotland.

    The EU doesn’t fair any better, it is utterly compromised by Atlanticists this is CEPA’s department to make sure new up and coming European politicians are pro-USA.

    https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/Center_for_European_Policy_Analysis

    Ask yourself why the EU parliament called for ceasefire in 2008 and 2014 in Gaza, but this time around it hasn’t.

    https://nitter.net/ClareDalyMEP/status/1717884720808120580#m

  130. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Confused – I thought the UK saved the world from fascism during both world wars? Most of the rest of the world give us credit for doing that.

    When you work overseas for a while, you see the UK the way they see it and that is overwhelmingly good.

    If you take the UK Covid Inquiry as a current example, do you think the Scottish version will come anywhere close to matching that for honesty?

    This is a pro-independence web-site and if you want to make the positive case for independence, then do that.

  131. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    For those who think it’s reasonable to use an ordinary election as a de facto referendum, you need to understand the damage that would cause. The uncertainty would cost both countries. Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years? And if it’s OK for Scotland to do it, then why not the Shetlands or the Borders or Aberdeen? What makes Scotland more durable than any smaller area? Why is what formed Scotland any more important than what formed and preserved the UK, including the 2014 referendum?

    And if you used any old election to make decisions that affected international agreements, why would the EU ever admit you? You could be in, out, in, out, shake it all about. What if there was a second election before you’d actually separated from the UK and the results weren’t favourable for separation? Would all the efforts built up to that point be abandoned?

  132. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Who cares about the EU.

    Its self destructing all the countries within the EU at the moment,
    Maybe Scotland by default has had a lucky escape. With it sanctions and stealing assest of other Countries akin to piracy that they froze. With its mass immigration policies to dilute other countries Cultures populations,
    With its equality being unequal and supporting war after war,

    At one time Scotland thought it was a good idea years ago, but things have have changed considerably with the direction and way the EU, Nato, the UN and unelected, are now stealing and taking the Sovereignty of all the nations within,

    The EU has now projected itself into a downward spiral in its joint ventures with war mongering and piracy of assest from other Countries,

    I for one no longer respect the way they behave and bull dose other Countries similar to blackmail through finances,
    Scotland would be best trading individually for the sake of autonmony.

  133. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Confused.

    Your analysis on the interchanable morphing of Britain/ England….England/ Britain nationalism and basic Colonialism mind set.
    That they should ever look in the mirror…. with eyes open.
    Eloquently said, Confused.

  134. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    ” the EU won’t accept you ( an iScotland ) unless blah blah fckn blah ”

    Who gives a fuck about what the EU will or won’t do ?

    The EU is done , screwed beyond redemption by clowns like Von der Leyen and her/their slavish adherence to every demented US diktat and idiotic * progressive * fantasy .

    Look at ” Economic/Industrial powerhouse of Europe ” ( R.I.P ) – Germany . Committing economic hara-kiri at the behest of their own Idiot Green Party , encouraged by the Yanks .. eg .. “we’re gonna blow-up the pipeline that has provided you with cheap fuel, enabling your economic success , then you can buy our much more expensive gas , ok ?

    ” Ja, natürlich, lieber Anführer der Freien Welt ”

    France , Sweden , Germany ( again ) and others experiencing paroxysms of violence on their streets fuelled by immigrant social & inter-ethnic rivalries & displeasure that those streets are in fact NOT paved with gold ; whole sections of cities no-go zones for the indigenous population , even the police won’t enter some of them . Naive ideas of harmonious multiculturalism imploding in showers of broken glass, broken bones , broken lives .

    The question is not will the EU accept an iScotland – the more pertinent question is why the fuck would an iScotland want to be part of a warmongering , NeoLib/Con basket case ?

    We’ll sell them our oil & gas – renewable and conventional – whisky , seafood etc , but other than that – unless they get their houses in order and reacquaint themselves with Reality – cordial relations will suffice .

  135. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    If the EU isn’t relevant, then it needs to be removed from the plan for Scottish independence. How would that impact on those who support it?

  136. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake, @ 1:36pm,

    will you please stop talking so much practical sense about endless elections, and the impact on business and investment? The 50%+1 loons will get most upset, because those are alien concepts to them. It’s all about thoughtless freedum as far as they are concerned.

  137. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for the heads up on Chris … I missed the update on Chris, (such a lot of Yoon crud to scroll past these days), but those who know me will know I’m a big fan of Mr Cairns, and was only speaking tongue in cheek.

    Get well soon Chris, your country needs you.

  138. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che said;

    “Ask the Question;

    Why was the 1707 Scottish parliament Dissolved by proclamation in 1707 in Westminster, but the parliament of England was not Dissolved in Westminster on the same date?”

    James, it was because the Treaty specifically allowed Queen Anne to delay the actual first session of the new joint Parliament of Great Britain as long as the formalities required by the Treaty had been concluded by the 1st of May 1707.

  139. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    I see desperate Dan has produced his ‘list’ yet again. On perusal I find that there is one missing vital element-

    Scotland produces 100% of the UK total of excrement from giant pandas but, not for long, as they don’t like it here and are going back to China. Apparently the Scots are not too disposed to foreigners! As we can read from the posts on here.

  140. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake @1.36pm.

    Firstly Scotland IS a country, the Shetland’s and parts of Aberdeen are not, they are part of Scotland, which I might add is the older of the two nations in this political and economic but not territorial union. The latter point is why English kings and Queens cannot publicly swear to uphold the Claim of Right.

    As for international agreements like unions, they are not immutable, if this were the case the British Empire would still be the size today that it was at its height, thankfully its not.

    Ash Regan’s and the Rev, who mentioned this type of route out of the union a while back the (VEM) Voter Empowerment Mechanism is the way forward.

  141. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Cappy

    No they don’t.
    They were colonised too & couldn’t wait to get rid.
    Brexit proved it too as 27 other countries didn’t give a shit.
    & It was the Russians who saved us from fascism & paid for it with the most casualties & capturing Berlin.
    Now yer told to hate them.

    The UK was SKINT & was LOSING.

    That’s the trouble with revisionist bullshit.

    Now yer told to hate them.

    No one gives a shit about the COVID inquiry either.
    It’ll be a whitewash.
    & Every country is only concerned with how they handled their own response. Not little England & certainly not it’s branch office either.

    Confused – well said.

    I’m reminded of the Chinese – they use Tiktok to learn valuable stuff like science & shit. The west uses it to act fcking daft & rage at the world over Pride flags & hormones lol

    Dumbed down Britain.

  142. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS, at 12:54pm

    There aren’t any words in the UN Charter giving rights of secession.

    Are you trying to delude others? Or merely under a delusion yourself?

  143. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri – Those were “world wars” and so almost all countries were involved and those that were on the winning side can all claim credit for playing their part in ridding us of fascism. The UK was at the forefront of that effort though and there is no doubt about that. The UK went-on to create the Balfour Declaration towards the end of WW1 and no-one thought that, more than a hundred years later, it would turn into almost the last world-wide redoubt of fascism, did they? No-use blaming that on us.

  144. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland – what is a country? It’s just a word. What was the binding event that made Scotland as it is now, immutable? Was it democratic? In 2014 there was a democratic event that endorsed the UK. Internationally we are treated as one country, with the small exception of certain sports.

  145. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland.

    Your research is valid and it “pays” the people of Scotland to all take on some real research of their own not only in matters directly affecting Scotland but the state of the world around Scotland and how and where it would or would not want to go in the future,

    But I can not emphasis enough that it is time that yourself and other people in Scotland did a little bit more research on how Scotland has been captured by Colonialism rather than by propaganda of Westminster of a treaty of union that does not exist,
    We are of great usage to Nato, America, and Down South. And that hiaracy combination is a big take on for Scotland while Westminster Say NO with bluster over democracy.

    But just suppose that I am correct in finding no valid treaty that Stood, but only for the shortest of time periods along with Salvo.
    And that Scotland could reopen its parliament after it was dissolved in England from the treaty of union,

    For education and research by all will be quicker to make Scotland free and independent than waiting for permission from a Country that has colonised us by deceit.
    This ( should ) be of interest to every Sovereign Scot, not just myself or Salvo.,
    SALVO and Myself take an entirely different approach from most here,
    Yes it is new in its thinking to the independence grass roots movement, but that does not make it Wrong.
    If you think of a spider weaving its web, it always starts at the beginning. Politicians spun the web in 1706/07,
    But it had loop holes, big loop holes, and Scotland escaped, but lingers in a re occurring night mare that it was captured.

    Like Salvo, I believe Scots and their territory are, and have always remained Sovereign.
    Neither point of view distracts from the other, but are enhanced by each other.
    Scots are Sovereign and the territory of Scotland still belongs to Scots.

    More Scots for independence researching this subject takes the pressure of of a few of us, but frees all of Scotland,

    We can still keep our eyes on what is going on in the world outside that relates to Scotland, we are not simpletons.
    Free Scotland first from Global ideology and constant warmongering.

  146. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen.

    Not meaning in any way to sound offensive to your polite response and I wish to keep mine in that same vein,

    But that is whitewashing a few issues under the miroscope,

    1:
    With only the Scottish parliament now officially dissolved that ended Scotlands ability to a continue as a parliament altogether,

    I researched this in the Institute of Government, nothing is binding to be carried forward from the Scottish parliament to the Westminster parliament of England,

    As the parliament of England was not the Successor state noted in the articles as the successor parliament of Great Britain mentioned in the agreement,

    Are you stating that The parliament of England was acting as the successor new parliament?

    The parliament of England continuing after the parliament of Scotland was dissolved in Westminster by the Queens proclamation also divides the unity of uniting of two parliaments at the same time.
    The formalities required that both the parliament of England and the parliament of Scotland had to be dissolved simultatainiously prior to a new Parliament of one united parliament of Great Britain could be created,

  147. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    ASA.

    “The right of a people to self-determination[1] is a cardinal principle in modern international law, binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter’s norms.[2][3] It states that peoples, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.[4]”

    Note- “With no Interference.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

    Not only is that the case but this applies as well.

    “The International Court of Justice, in a 2010 advisory opinion, declared that unilateral declarations of independence were not illegal under international law.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence

  148. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen,

    The Westminster parliament of England in 1706 could not legally insert itself as a continuation inter-mediate Successor state of the dissolved Scottish parliament.

  149. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad said;

    “There aren’t any words in the UN Charter giving rights of secession.

    Are you trying to delude others? Or merely under a delusion yourself?”

    It is you who is deluded, ASA. Neither the UK nor England is Scotland’s mother country in any kind of sense, so Scotland resuming its independence can’t be considered secession; it would merely be ending a voluntary Treaty between two Principals, something either Treaty Principal may do without requiring the agreement of other Principal.

    This is because both are sovereign, meaning neither has any authority over the other, so neither can compel the other to remain bound by the Treaty.

    For precisely the same reason, Scotland’s MPs can’t be legally compelled to submit to English MP majorities. Once our worthless MPs realise that, England’s domineering numeric authority is shown up as a pseudo-democratic fraud, and Scotland’s independence is then only a hop, skip, and a jump away.

    If we have to dump our MPs as our intermediaries at Westminster, and take the decision to end the Treaty directly ourselves, we as the actual sovereigns of the Scottish partner are fully entitled to do that.

  150. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Republic of Scotland, UDI is not illegal but isn’t necessarily accepted as the list at that link indicates. UDI doesn’t stipulate what makes a country, so there’s nothing to stop parts of Scotland using the same convention. The Shetlands and Orkneys could rejoin Norway or Denmark and claim the sea that links them all as theirs.

  151. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen,

    Once the Scottish parliament came under dissolution by Queens proclamation in Westminster parliament of England, and it was still the Westminster parliament of England at that time we must (remember), if as you are stating, the Parliament of England continued until a later date,
    And there is evidence to back up the statement you made, I agree.

    The parliament of England did indeed act as a successor parliament to the parliament of Scotland, prior to the new Great Britain parliament was created.

    As a result the parliament of England acting as the Successor of the dissolved parliament of Scotland only England entered the Newly Created name brand Change parliament of England to the parliament of Great Britain.
    As The parliament of England was not legally by the agreement or ratification entitled to become Scotlands parliament successor.

    Perhaps this is Why the UK parliament site Suggests that the Scottish parliament voted to extinguish itself in 2023.

  152. Jm
    Ignored
    says:

    The placeman Tommy Robinson and his bussed in hired thugs.Splash the Brut all over,neck that cheap lager and snort the gak till your steroid filled muscles twitch and throb in homo-erotic preparation for old Engerlunds glory.You want some yeah do what innit guv do what yeah? Tommy keeps his Commando comics under his bed like what Mum said and oils his fake tattoos whilst thinking of Harrods catalogues.His handlers purr.

  153. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    We didn’t have a legal event in 2014.
    If we did we’d be independent.

    We had rUK saturate the vote & three UK leaders break Purdah rules to promise shit they never delivered.

    Scotland isn’t threated as on as evidenced by the various countries in support of Indy & a welcome letter to the EU should we wish to take it.

    Scotlands constitution & it’s treaty with England should have been Scotlands question to Scots alone.

    England sure as shit would enforce it if the shoe was on the other foot.
    & Stop mentioning regions of Scotland – again, that would be Scotlands business. Not outsiders who’ve flooded it. The same rules would apply. If they wanted to join Norway only Scots would have a vote on it.

    You really have to laugh at the English who apparently don’t care about borders & what’s called a country – until you point to the English channel & the a bat in the mouth would follow anyone saying they’re erased..lol

    Who you trying to kid?

  154. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    They took our jeeeeeebs.

  155. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen,

    what nonsense. You are no more “sovereign” than you are a hen’s egg. This total nonsense about the Scot’s being sovereign is utterly meaningless.

    Get over it. As an individual, you adore a citizen of the U.K. That’s it.

  156. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Chas says: “Chas says on 11 November 2023 at 2:14 pm: “Apparently the Scots are not too disposed to foreigners! As we can read from the posts on here.”

    You mean a bit like the National Front, the BNP, the EDL and countless other organisations down through the decades? All organisations Made In England. And then there’s a certain percentage of Brexit supporters who wanted out of the EU simply because they wanted to “get away from all those foreigners.”

    And that’s not even mentioning the racist filth among the Tories and Labour Parties. You know the ones, those filthy scumbags who stood shoulder to shoulder against Scotland’s right to self-determination. Yous even had a scummy member of the Lords proudly having her photo taken with BNP scum whilst campaigning for a ‘No’ vote, in Aberdeenshire i think it was.

    Unionists have a nerve to accuse anyone of being racist. One or two (if they’re not the same person) on here using racist language versus complete racist organisations? Somehow your sarcastic attempt to use the actions of those on here as some sort of Scottish barometer while conveniently and completely ignoring the racist Unionist organisations doesn’t quite cut it.

    Unionists also have organisations such as The Orange Order who detest anyone who isn’t a white, blue-eyed, protestant. And all in the name of “culture”. An organisation many class as a modern version of the KKK. Funny how that comparison is made, isn’t it? Because some OO members also support the BNP, NF, EDL and even the KKK.

    Aye! But Scotland dislikes foreigners because Chas says so. LOL!
    Every country in the world has its racist and bigot element. Scotland is no different. But don’t try and make Scotland out to be racist because of certain comments on here. Did you report the racist comments on here? No? Then for all we know it could very well be *YOU* posting racist language under a sockpuppet account to blacken the name of the indy movement. Who knows, eh?

  157. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake@2.49 makes a fine point. James Che, Xaracen, RoS – would either of you care to engage?

  158. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Captain Yossarian says on 11 November 2023 at 4:06 pm: “Pat Blake@2.49 makes a fine point.”

    I really need to stop encouraging the Unionists on here who don’t financially contribute to this site and at times infest the btl. But i’m sick of seeing these lies spouted on here.

    Yous are talking out your arses. That trope has been well and truly dismantled and debunked on here by both The Rev and others who have contributed articles.

    Go trawl through the archives and educated yourselves.

  159. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    On a day on which the righteous are on the march for goodness.
    A reminder of how complicated that can be.

    STOP IRANIAN PERSECUTION!
    FREE ARABISTAN!
    You will not hear that on UK streets.
    https://www.arabnews.com/ahwaz
    What’s Farsi for what’s sauce for the goose….

    How Muslim treats Muslim, those forgotten children of Yemen.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-66258171

    Scotland observe and learn. Did to avoid skepticism, cynicism and the like.

  160. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Ass

    No it isn’t.

    Scotland didn’t give one square inch of her territory. (Other than the bit B liar stole which will be returned)

    It was a trade deal with a shared monarch. That monarch is here through the consent of Scots.
    She never lost her sovereignty.
    That wasn’t in the deal either.

    Simply because no one can sign up to give away what doesn’t belong to them in the first place.
    You continually like to forget that the union came with non negotiable terms & conditions.

    Lizzie was tolerated. King Chucky & his mistress, not so much.

  161. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossbot has the attention span of a goldfish.

  162. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    Stroker 4.05

    This was some heap of mince you posted. Hope you feel better for it. Have a wee look at some very recent posts from some of your heroes on here and tell me how welcoming they are.

    People like you only EVER see the side of the argument that they support however misguided and inaccurate it may be.

  163. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Speaking of the OO & the KKK

    Anyone following the insane case of the Delphi murders?

    Odinisim everywhere from judges, law enforcement & prison guards to the whole freaking town. Two young girls murdered. Decorated & positioned with various symbols & rumour of human sacrifices.

    Scary shit. It’s like wandering into something out the Wicker man.

    Two lawyers have been kicked off the case for the defendant by the judge & he is being starved by guards to keep his mouth shut. Law enforcement & prison guards even wearing symbolisms on their uniforms & tats..
    Leaked documents too over the crime scene.
    It’s all going to kick off.. friggen nutters.
    Stephen King would have a field day..

  164. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker, one of the reasons that the SNP have failed is because they practice their ideas and arguments amongst themselves. It all falls apart when they come across the real world that doesn’t agree with them. Perhaps if more of them had turned up here to air their ideas on self ID, they’d have understood the opposition better. They might have developed better arguments or given up their plans. Would you have been impressed if, struggling to make their points, they might have told you to go read something elsewhere. Or maybe they’d have just labelled you all tro11s and gone somewhere more amenable to hear want they wanted?

    Many of you are the most enthusiastic cheering section for independence and you want to skate over the difficult issues. You are entitled to do just that. How’s it working out for you?

  165. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker says:
    11 November, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    Chas says: “Chas says on 11 November 2023 at 2:14 pm: “Apparently the Scots are not too disposed to foreigners! As we can read from the posts on here.”

    You mean a bit like the National Front, the BNP, the EDL and countless other organisations down through the decades? All organisations Made In England. And then there’s a certain percentage of Brexit supporters who wanted out of the EU simply because they wanted to “get away from all those foreigners.”

    And that’s not even mentioning the racist filth among the Tories and Labour Parties. You know the ones, those filthy scumbags who stood shoulder to shoulder against Scotland’s right to self-determination. Yous even had a scummy member of the Lords proudly having her photo taken with BNP scum whilst campaigning for a ‘No’ vote, in Aberdeenshire i think it was.

    ======================================================================================================================================

    I am not well disposed to “foreigners” for the reasons you state. I also classify Sassanachs resident in Scotland as foreigners as well as most of them voted Nah in 2014. They seem to be incapable of looking at themselves in mirrors and asking the question as to why they are hated. It was those foreigners that prop up Douglas Ross in Moray and that foreign twat toffee nosed Jack in Dumfries and Galloway.

  166. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    None of you have a vote here so why should we waste hours of our time explaining anything? 12 yrs of pro Indy articles on every topic. It’s all archived should you wish to look it up.

    SNP is a political party.
    It’s not the independence movement which is just tickety boo & holding steady.

    & It was Labour who introduced GRR here.
    & They will in England too once they get into power.

  167. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Iain More,

    you epitomise the reason that Yes won’t ever win. Narrow-minded hatred.

    Enjoy the rest of your U.K. citizenship

  168. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “Republicofscotland – what is a country? It’s just a word. What was the binding event that made Scotland as it is now, immutable? Was it democratic? In 2014 there was a democratic event that endorsed the UK. Internationally we are treated as one country, with the small exception of certain sports.”

    (Captain Yossarian why haven’t you addressed it?)

    Pat Blake.

    A country isn’t just a word actually its two-words (A Country) a country is its people, its history its language and culture, all of which have been repressed over the last three centuries, if you are referring to Scotland.

    What 2014 showed with great gusto is that Scotland is a country (as we all knew) and its people have the right to stay or leave this union. The majority of Scots DID vote to leave the union, but like Wales being dragged out of the EU because incomers voted yes to Brexit, Scots were out voted by incomers, of which 72.1% voted no to independence, mostly folk from South of the Border.

    There is absolutely no international treaty in the world where one party has to ask the other party for permission to leave the treaty.

    Scottish sovereignty where the people are sovereign and not the monarch (possibly the oldest form of holding sovereigns to account by the people in the world) and English sovereignty where the monarch is sovereign are utterly incompatible, incidentally Scottish Honours are older than there English counteparts.

    The bottom line is England can’t stop a Scottish government that desires Scottish independence (not the SNP though) from putting at the top of their manifesto that every election is an election on dissolving the union.

  169. moixx
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s a ‘Declaration for Biological Reality’ currently collecting signatures, and which you can sign up to via this link:

    https://declarationforbiologicalreality.org/

    Unfortunately, it’s not calling for the GRA to be repealed (just amended) but it’s still fairly comprehensive. Plus it seems to be an initiative that’s pulling together many different groups from across the UK, which in itself makes it worth supporting.

  170. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    looking at the posts added on here since this morning, it is crystal clear that we will be Independent by Xmas.

    How else to interpret the absence of ideas, policy, plans, leadership, goals, aspirations, etc? That must all be done and dusted, yesterday’s problems, all now tidied and solved.

    Well, OK, we could interpret all of the above and the near 100% focus on name calling, in fighting and pointless points scoring to an as yet unacknowledged recognition that Indy as a realistic notion is finished.

    Sad.

    Anybody want to answer Pat Blake’s question? How is skating over the difficult issues working out?

  171. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “Republic of Scotland, UDI is not illegal but isn’t necessarily accepted as the list at that link indicates.”

    Pat Blake.

    If enough citizens of a country say under colonial rule desire UDI then its more than likely that, that will be the route taken.

    I can’t say for sure but its possible more countries have rid themselves from colonial forces this way, than via the ballot box, but as I’ve stipulated you really need a high number in the 90% region I think for it work well.

  172. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Stoker 4:05

    “Every country in the world has its racist and bigot element. Scotland is no different”

    You reckon?

    Name me one other country in the world that has a leader on record as having made racist remarks about the vast majority of the nation he supposedly leads.

    Face it, Stoker, when it comes to racism, there are some innarestin little aspects to it in which Scotland leads the world.

  173. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    Stroker

    Did you see the post from your fellow pathetic Scot Ian More confirming exactly what I said previously. Or will you just ignore it as it does not suit your point of few.

    Scotland could do without the ignorant, bitter nutters. It will get us no where fast.

  174. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – It’s Saturday night and I watch “Strictly” every Saturday night and haven’t missed it for years. In terms of entertainment value though, your explanation of “Conservation of Momentum” vis a vis the Twin Towers collapse, resulted in an exultation of hilarity in my household last night. I cannot remember us ever being so amused by anything ever before. Even our dog found it funny. You’re much better than Strictly.

  175. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @RoS 5:58

    I agree with your bottom line.

    So when’s it going to happen? When’s the first plebiscitary election? Which party has it in its manifesto?

    C’moan RoS. I’m sick of the never ending talking the talk. Who’s gonna be walking the walk, and when?

  176. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossbot.
    Go on.

  177. James Barr Gardner
    Ignored
    says:

    I witnessed this afterboon Wishy Washy Keith Brown (SNP) being all but booed off the platform at Buchanan Steps, Glasgow. The Folk (8K) attending the rally seen right through his apologist dross ! What a waste of space…

  178. Mike d
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘Enjoy the rest of your uk citizenship’
    Born in Glasgow, still a yes voter and never held a brit passport other than that one year thing once. 40yrs an Irish passport holder now ( thanks dad).
    So f**k you and all the other yoon trolls and your ‘uk’ citizenship.

  179. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    moixx @ 17.59.

    Thank you for that link, signed and shared.

  180. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che @2.53pm.

    James, thank you for that comment and I agree with it, however as Craig Murray has said in the past, and it pains me to say so as well, its real politik that are at work here.

    No EU or UN body will honour our Claim of Right no matter how valid it is, its just too distant in the past, only a majority of Scots voting to leave the union will do the job, or UDI with around a 90% majority which I don’t see the numbers reaching that in the near future.

    Yes Scots are sovereign and yes the treaty of union has been broken on numerous occasions, but we in Scotland are trapped in an echo chamber where the EU and UN will do nothing of any great significance without an overwhelming majority in favour of leaving this union.

    The machinations of the SNP has set our cause back a bit, they at present are not interested in dissolving the union. On top of this Westminster and the British security services and all its House Jocks, will use every dirty trick in the book to stop Scotland from leaving the union.

    As Noam Chomsky once said, if you think there is no hope, then there will be no hope.

    I for one think that there is hope of dissolving this union, but we need to get the right people into office at Holyrood to progress towards our goal, and as Craig Murray states below this is just as important as getting that all elusive majority.

    “But while the right of self-determination of peoples in international law is crucial in the case of Scotland, and while Scotland undoubtedly qualifies as a “people” because it is a long established historic nation with its own legal system, culture and institutions, there is one overwhelmingly important criterion for recognition grounded in pure realpolitik.

    It was long accepted as the only criterion for recognition that a state had factual, practical control of its own territory. That position has become softened by more principled considerations since the second world war, but the actual control of the territory claimed remains the most important factor in gaining international recognition.

    Why did Catalonia fail where Slovenia, Kosovo and the Baltic states succeeded?

    Because realpolitik rules in practice, and the Slovenians, Balts and Kosovans had obtained actual control on the ground of the land they claimed. The Catalans had not.

    Physical control is not a sufficient condition for recognition – see the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus – but in effect it is a necessary condition.

    The UK Establishment will never agree to Scottish Independence. Scotland’s resources are far too valuable to them. Scotland has to declare Independence unilaterally, and take it.

    It is no use doing this like Catalonia, where the Spanish civil guard and judiciary effectively wiped out the nascent state before it could breathe.

    A Scottish government, whether arising from the Scottish Parliament or from another body, needs in declaring Independence to ensure it has practical control of Scotland.

    That means that the organs of the state have to acknowledge the Scottish state. All taxes collected must go to Edinburgh, not to Westminster. The judiciary must apply Scottish laws and not Westminster ones, where they conflict, and specifically apply all new laws post the Declaration of Independence. The police must answer only to Scottish authorities. Ultimately so must the military stationed in Scotland.

    At the time Independence is declared, immediate action must be taken to ensure all civil servants, judges, police and military take an oath of loyalty to the people of Scotland and its new government, and renounce any previous loyalty to Crown and to UK political institutions. Anybody refusing must be summarily dismissed from their positions.

    We have the example of Catalonia before us. We also have the example of Egypt’s only ever democratically elected leader, President Morsi, who died horribly in jail after being overthrown by a CIA coup because he failed to take the elementary precaution of dismissing and imprisoning all the military regime’s corrupt judges. He should have learnt from Fritz Bauer.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/01/trains-mostly-planes-and-automobiles-part-5/

  181. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – the Yessbots are taking a hell of a beating.

  182. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @RoS 6:47

    You’ve posted that one before (more than once).

    I’ll respond as I did on previous occasions.

    The chances of me ever swearing an oath of loyalty to Yousaf or any government he leads are precisely zero. It is my earnest hope that all Sovereign Scots will think as I do about this.

  183. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossbot
    You were going to explain my error regarding conservation of momentum in the twin towers?

  184. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake says: at 1:36 pm

    For those who think it’s reasonable to use an ordinary election as a de facto referendum, you need to understand the damage that would cause. The uncertainty would cost both countries. Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years? And if it’s OK for Scotland to do it, then why not the Shetlands or the Borders or Aberdeen? What makes Scotland more durable than any smaller area? Why is what formed Scotland any more important than what formed and preserved the UK, including the 2014 referendum?

    And if you used any old election to make decisions that affected international agreements, why would the EU ever admit you? You could be in, out, in, out, shake it all about. What if there was a second election before you’d actually separated from the UK and the results weren’t favourable for separation? Would all the efforts built up to that point be abandoned?

    Aye, the UK being that bastion of upholding democracy and all that… You know, what with considerable differences in voter franchises used across the constituent parts of the UK, also there was no need for super majority in 2014 Indyref, or the 2016 EU vote, but suddenly all this needs to change…

    https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3361

    The thing is, you mention using a referendum but the EU don’t specifically list a referendum as the only democratic event that might precipitate an action. “Democratic process” is the text used in this document.

    https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/

    Article 48

    ROADMAP FOR SUCCESSION IN EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE CASE OF MEMBER STATE’S SECESSION OR DISSOLUTION

    “Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.”

    But back to this part of your post: “You need to understand the damage that would cause. The uncertainty would cost both countries. Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years?

    If you open your eyes and look across wider society, you might notice that the UK has and continues to cause considerable damage, uncertainty & disruption to people, and businesses, and the UK economy for considerably longer than just a few years, try a few hundred years…

  185. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – If you recall the Surfside Apartment Collapse that occurred 2 or 3 years ago in Florida. There, an entire building collapsed. Because the foundations failed, it pancaked from the bottom, meaning that the ground floor fell into the basement, then the first floor fell into the basement, then the third floor and so-on.

    The twin towers pancaked from the floors above the crash scene crashing on to the floors below the crash scene and so it pancaked from the top. The speed of the total collapse is measured in seconds. It’s almost as fast as if you threw a bag of sugar off the roof….how long would it take to reach the ground? It’s almost that fast.

    Buildings pancake because the strength of the floors is only sufficient to support the weight of that floor and is not sufficient to support the weight of 10 or 20 floors suddenly dropped from a height. Hence, the floors immediately give way.

    With respect to “Conservation of Momentum”. That has nothing to do with it. That comes from Newton’s 3rd Law and a static building vis a vis Surfside or the Twin Towers before the collapse, has zero momentum.

    Surfside collapsed because tidal water washed the sand away from the sides of the piles that supported the building. They therefore had no lateral support and something made them shift sideways and then, once one shifted, all of the rest shifted too and the building collapsed.

    The twin towers collapsed due to a combination of deformation of the steel frame due to the impact of the planes and the heating of the steel frame to “red-hot” temperatures by the subsequent fire. A classic case of plastic deformation which is probably being taught in engineering schools now.

    So, there you are. All explained. Forget Conservation of Momentum. We are Scotsmen and we are supposed to understand this sort of stuff better than most.

  186. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Humza has strayed over the centre line of impartially today with his call for the resignation of the Home Secretary. Unwise words from her for sure but as the continuity candidate he is making the same mistake as his predecessor. All the energy and bandwidth of effort goes into the response to Westminster. Barely any effort on solving our domestic problems. Anyway how is the campaign going to release wee Kfir. Hebrew for lion cub?. Humanity by definition includes everybody. I attended a multi faith Armistice service this morning. Well observed ceremony with serving military personnel and Police Scotland observing but keeping a low profile. All good and Remembrance observed gracefully.

  187. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Fucksake, seriously, if “there’s nothing happening” then can some time not be put in to fix the fucking site so it is more usable.

    Re-formatting previous post and try again.

    Pat Blake says: at 1:36 pm

    For those who think it’s reasonable to use an ordinary election as a de facto referendum, you need to understand the damage that would cause. The uncertainty would cost both countries. Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years? And if it’s OK for Scotland to do it, then why not the Shetlands or the Borders or Aberdeen? What makes Scotland more durable than any smaller area? Why is what formed Scotland any more important than what formed and preserved the UK, including the 2014 referendum?

    And if you used any old election to make decisions that affected international agreements, why would the EU ever admit you? You could be in, out, in, out, shake it all about. What if there was a second election before you’d actually separated from the UK and the results weren’t favourable for separation? Would all the efforts built up to that point be abandoned?

    Aye, the UK being that bastion of upholding democracy and all that… You know, what with considerable differences in voter franchises used across the constituent parts of the UK, also there was no need for super majority in 2014 Indyref, or the 2016 EU vote, but suddenly all this needs to change…

    https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3361

    The thing is, you mention using a referendum but the EU don’t specifically list a referendum as the only democratic event that might precipitate an action. “Democratic process” is the text used in this document.

    https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/

    Article 48

    ROADMAP FOR SUCCESSION IN EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE CASE OF MEMBER STATE’S SECESSION OR DISSOLUTION

    “Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.”

    But back to this part of your post: “You need to understand the damage that would cause. The uncertainty would cost both countries. Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years?

    If you open your eyes and look across wider society, you might notice that the UK has and continues to cause considerable damage, uncertainty & disruption to people, and businesses, and the UK economy for considerably longer than just a few years, try a few hundred years…

  188. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossbot
    I don’t think you know much about engineering.
    Btw, The Florida collapse had nothing to do with 911.

    http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Journal_5_PTransferRoss.pdf

    I’m assuming you have no clue re sinking schools either.

  189. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake

    Don’t forget that the adverse effect of plebiscitary elections on Scotland’s “hopes” for EU membership will rightly be seen as a pro, not a con, by plenty of Sovereign Scots.

    Over a million of us voted Brexit last time around. Quite a few of us who voted Remain have noticed how much the EU has changed recently, what with The War and all. Alert Scots now realise we can’t go back to our rosy-tinted vision of an EU that no longer exists.

    Obvs the SNP administration and pretendy FM Yousaf haven’t noticed, as they continue to insist that a vote for Indy will be a de facto vote for EU membership, so we Scots will never need to be asked if we want Brussels rule.

    But they’ll be no more than a shameful and embarrassing historical episode soon enough.

  190. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Israeli snipers are now shooting patients in hospitals. Must be Hamas hiding under the sheets.

    https://twitter.com/ecomarxi/status/1723421765248913633

  191. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Republic

    Catalonia was an ancient country.
    They didn’t succeed because, like Scotland, it’s the power house of Spain AND because Spain has a written constitution.

    & I’m pretty sure the others succeeded because weren’t they former USSR & it suited to break that up. I don’t think they had referendum either.

    Scotland will become independent when she declares it or makes it happen between governments by a convention nullifying the treaty of union & completely sidestep a referendum unless there are strict rules implemented & observed regards the franchise.

    Scotland won’t get loyalty from anyone & devolution is dead.

    50% +1 at every election. That’s all we need to get talks underway for our exit.

  192. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm – That journal you attach sets out exactly the engineering I have just explained to you. I suspect you haven’t read it…or you have read it but haven’t understood it properly.

    It’s all there: elastic deflection, plastic deflection, top-down collapse etc. The journal explains that the collapse occurred almost at gravitational speed and you cannot get any faster than that.

    Before impact, the building has no momentum. When it starts to collapse it has momentum which increases by the second, but all of that momentum is lost when the building hits the floor. The impact would feel like an earthquake, but that is where all of the enrgy would be lost.

    With respect to the school, I’ll try and let you know when I have some news. That shouldn’t be long now.

    I don’t have any unhealthy fascination with collapsing buildings by the way. It’s just engineering and that’s the way I look at it.

    The school is analogous to Surfside in that it was tidal flows that did all of the damage at Surfside and at the school it is artesian flows which are causing the same damage.

    Tidal Flows versus Artesian Flows. It’s a bit like you and Ruby – both are bad, but which is worse?

  193. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Braw 15 min vid of World Trade Centre towers construction processes, including structural design elements.
    Even mentions foundation design to work around issue of existing ground moisture in the area and how it could alter and interfere with other existing building’s foundations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z67IV07PvKU

    I have been at the top of one of the towers and it was bonkers looking down to the ground. All the yellow taxis in the streets below just looked like tiny ants.
    It’s hard to comprehend the physics of how such buildings can even be built when one considers the shear scale of the mass of materials used in constructing them.

  194. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian (8.42) –

    Will you please stop going on about 9/11? It’s as plain as day that you’re just making stuff up.

    This place has been going for 12 years and nary a peep has been uttered about 9/11. I tried, years ago, and was put back in my box by Rev who stated it was nothing to do with Scottish independence. Fair enough.

    Now we have you gaslighting us about something that anyone with more than a passing interest has long-since assigned to the same ‘Must Not Be Discussed’ file containing all sorts of nauseating stuff.

    Stuart Cosgrove, on an episode of Off The Ball (within the past two years or so, probably during lockdown) had to cut off a guest mid-sentence because he didn’t want Israel being discussed. When asked why? by Tam Cowan, Cosgrove merely replied, in a low, serious tone, ‘It’s just one those things. Never *ever* mention Israel.’ If I’ve got the wording wrong there then I’m sure Stuart will drop in to correct me.

    Or maybe he won’t. There was a BBC weather presenter who, segueing away from a feature about Eurovision, cheerily quipped ‘Why is Israel in Eurovision anyway? It’s not in Europe is it?!’ and he pointed to a map of Europe which then had to be hugely expanded so that Israel came into view. That was the last time he was seen presenting the weather. For all we know it may be the last time he was seen at all.

  195. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS, at 6:16pm.

    Yet again, a breezy assertion that you don’t evidence is that Scotland is under colonial rule, which you then use to advance some illogical nonsense about UDI.

    Scotland isn’t under colonial rule. It’s a theory only, advocated solely by fruitloops. The sort of theory that gets shot down in court on day one of a trial, followed by “case dismissed due to lack of evidence”.

    As for the rest of your argument, there’s no evidence that a majority of citizens want independence in any guise, far less achieving it via the known and forecastable risks of declaring UDI. Only serious nutters advocate that.

  196. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossbot.
    My reading of the pdf is that a full iteration of the collapse would impart momentum to the 30 floors beneath and destruction to many fewer floors than that..

    Watch films of the collapse and you will see huge amounts of energy were expended in producing and expelling dust and debris which would further reduce mass.

    You deny that momentum is a factor then you agree with the article which is all about momentum?
    The article surely explains that the collapse proceeds slower and slower until it stops.

    It is not like “throwing a bag of sugar of the roof”

  197. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Joe Glenton has them bang to rights in another vid on Double Down News..

    The psychopaths in government.. hypocrites.

    They really wanted to stop a ‘stop bombing kids’ march.

    The police were under pressure from the free speech warriors to ban it – where are they? The Tories & Labour are trying to turn it into a culture war cause they have no answers. There’ll be all types marching, left, right, young, old, black, white, Jew & Muslim cause it’s the right thing to do. It’s a humanitarian impulse. You don’t bomb kids. It’s not hard, lads’

    The ppl who died in the war would be absolutely disgusted with our government.

    A slogan has more ppl upset than bombing kids does.
    Not all criticism is anti Semitic.

    Our media is the pits at getting ppl all riled up to any criticism.

  198. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Looks like the educated ASS isn’t educated at all.

    Colony:

    A colony is a territory subject to a form of foreign rule. Though dominated by the foreign colonizers, the rule remains separate to the original country of the colonizers, the metropolitan state (or “mother country”), within the shared imperialist administration.

    Coloniser:
    a country that sends settlers to a place and establishes political control over it.

    Any problems understanding that? Take it up with Oxford.

    A country not in FULL control of its own resources is also a colony & so is one who can’t hold a referendum.

    Decolonisation dept at the UN deals with it. Scotland will end a treaty either with or without England.

    What was it David Davies said? There isn’t a treaty alive that can’t be ended. Or words to that effect..

  199. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian – I am responding to Johnlm. If he says something which is clearly wrong, then we have a duty to correct it, or else these pages turn into a playground for nutters. If we only had a reader or two who was around in 1707, we might be able to silence James Che for a while? A day or two would be enough.

    Dan – Fascinating, isn’t it. This was done in the era where there was great optimism and problems were just solved. No-one cared about money and, as a result, they created buildings that were fabulous and the world will probably never see anything like them again. If they weren’t brought down like that they would have lasted for hundreds of years.

  200. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    FFS at the moderation on here..

    Another post gobbled up for a dictionary entry FFS…

  201. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    ASA.

    Professor Alf Baird has already explained how Scotland, a country is treated as a colony by Westminster, aided and abetted by House Jock, try reading his Determinants of Independence.

    Here I’ll start you off with Part one.

    https://soundcloud.com/indyscotnews/determinants-of-independence

    As for UDI, if you’d have bothered to read my comments properly, I said we’d need a high percentage of citizens around the 90% to want that, for it to occur, for now at least we don’t have such a figure.

    Then again I’m wasting my time explaining this to you, a mouthpiece at Hubble road or Denison.

  202. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland “a country is its people, its history its language and culture, all of which have been repressed over the last three centuries, if you are referring to Scotland.”

    Lots of things have been repressed both sides of the border but modern Scots have more in common with modern English than ancient Scots. Likewise the English and their ancestors. There has been a thorough exchange of people, evidenced by names. We speak a common language that would be partly incomprehensible to our ancestors. Our lives are so different our ancestors couldn’t even have imagined them. What parts of ancient Scottish culture do you still engage in? I stem from 4 parts of the UK and I can’t think of anything bar a few family recipes that hark back any further than my grandparents. I’ve never felt the urge to clog dance or toss a caber or confess my sins to a priest.

    If Scottish citizens are measured by your definition, how many would be eligible to decide the future of Scotland and might those who fail to make the grade have something to say about being excluded?

  203. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Ach, well if engineering and systems matters cannae be discussed btl noo then there is little hope of building anything of any worth in Scotland.
    I’ll step my efforts doon and jist let those already in positions of influence and power continue doing what they do. They are after all doing such and excellent job… Wanna buy some ferries, or implement a Deposit Return Scheme, or howz about some dodgy cheap ass Solar PV & Air Sourced Heat Pumps for the buzzing and lolz!

    Soz, but folk that really don’t have a scooby about or interest in engineering might consider letting those that do get some space to try to highlight and discuss stuff and sort out the mess that’s being made.

    If folk want to talk about other stuff that could help Scotland then get busy posting some other discussion points and that chatter can run alongside other stuff, nobody is stopping you, other than yourselves not doing it.

    Much as it is hellish to observe, there is absolutely fuck all I can do about the all the shite going on in other countries.
    The cretins Scotland elected to run Scotland clearly aren’t able to adequately represent the folk they are meant to serve, in fact they are so corrupted they’ll try to take you out of the game for holding views different to theirs.
    Therefore it might just be an idea to actually focus on making a start to getting alternatives in place, think global but act local, coz that really is where the foundation to build (see what I did there) any change for the better will come from.
    If you don’t do that now because you are too distracted and consumed with what’s going on outwith Scotland, then there will be nothing in place to begin to implement the change you seek when the next elections occur.
    #PriorPlanningPreventsPissPoorPerformance

  204. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan “If you open your eyes and look across wider society, you might notice that the UK has and continues to cause considerable damage, uncertainty & disruption to people, and businesses”

    None of that has any bearing on whether the EU would let Scotland join if it tries to use normal elections every few years to try and make decisions about union. The Brexit vote was 40+ years after the vote to join the Common Market.

    John Main says:
    “Don’t forget that the adverse effect of plebiscitary elections on Scotland’s “hopes” for EU membership will rightly be seen as a pro, not a con, by plenty of Sovereign Scots.”

    Too true, but… but… wasn’t the Brexit vote the reason to rerun the 2014 vote immediately, rather than wait a generation? Probably like you, I can’t understand why some would like to exchange being remotely governed from uncaring Westminster for being remotely governed by uncaring Brussels.

  205. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS,

    Alf Baird hasn’t explained anything to my satisfaction. He’s got some crazy theories, about colonialism, and some warped money-losing idea of making Scapa Flow into a transshipment hub, none of which stack up in my view. They all seem to be contrary to reality.

    Anyway, the proof is in the investment. If you can’t get people to buy into your ideas, you ain’t going anywhere. You are stuck spinning your wheels in the gravel. Nothing happening.

  206. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake says: at 10:35 pm

    None of that has any bearing on whether the EU would let Scotland join if it tries to use normal elections every few years to try and make decisions about union. The Brexit vote was 40+ years after the vote to join the Common Market.

    I never said it did! I merely posted the link and text from that document to highlight that the words “democratic process” was used rather than it having to be a referendum to gain some international recognition.
    You’re trying to conflate that with the separate aspect of my post which pointed out that our society has been enduring the negative effects you mention for some considerable time already. I’m aying that Scotland returning to self-governance might finally break that cycle so the constitutional elephant in the room is removed and the people of Scotland and the Kingdom of England can finally begin to reboot their own political systems that have failed them for so long.

    Re. EU membership. That boat has sailed anyway as we have left and the EU has shown itself to be a different animal now anyway.
    The Article 48 stuff I linked to would have been what the SNP could have run with post “Brexit” vote, but for some reason they chose not to. It’s odd is it not. They are currently tying Scottish Indy to EU membership as the only path, but didn’t pick up and run with the relatively straightforward process that could have been used when we were still part of a member state.

    The compromise position is now somewhere between EU membership and the hard “Brexit” such as EEA.

  207. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @IB 9:17

    Uh oh, you knew the risks, but then you went ahead and did it anyways – mentioned the ‘I’ word.

    Not saying you will now disappear (sadly, it’s not my birthday) but maybes you should put your affairs in order.

    After all, if you believe the story you just posted, why would you take the risk?

    And it’s not like you would ever post shite fables you don’t believe.

    Haha, I crack me up.

  208. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Geri 9:41

    “They really wanted to stop a ‘stop bombing kids’ march”

    Naw.

    They didn’t want to stop it. They didn’t stop it.

  209. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    So much about what the EU will & won’t “accept” lol!

    Ukraine was fast tracked & Isis sold them oil LOL!

    We have nothing in common with England.
    Scotland is socialist. England is not.
    The English vote Tory. They are rejected here & have been for over 70 yrs.

    Scotland can be a good neighbour. The advent of the internet means I can share a recipe with the whole wide world now.

    Scotland is a country & a country should be in charge of its territory, it’s resources & it’s own decisions on how we go ern at home & abroad. & On foreign policy.

    Brexit was the final nail. 2014 was the last chance. The English arrogance of Westminster killed the union.

    Scotland is also outward looking. We want to trade with the EU markets either through membership but more quickly by joining EFTA. 6 months as opposed to a decade. The world deals with each other like adults. Not exceptionalism thinking they’re special.

    The fishing industry for example – shafted by Brexit. On funding & their markets obliterated by English exceptionalisim.

    Young ppls futures too – to study, work, live & advance skills like in medicine for example.

    The union is not going back under any circumstances.
    Scotland will be independent. It’s not going away.
    The nonsense we need permission is a lie.
    It’s a new invention since Scotland looked like leaving.
    That simply doesn’t stack up in international law.
    & Has been confirmed too by a UN international lawyer.
    There is no treaty that cannot be ended. Ever.

    England do not. They want to be isolationist.

    What the likes of Main needs to understand is it’ll be up to Scots.
    The 1 million who voted for Brexit would not do so now that reality has hit & the liars have been exposed. They were duped by a slogan & rather than admit it they double down to the detriment of everyone.

    England wanted independence. They should have it. English nationalists cheered for their day of independence with little regard for the plastic wankers on here lol.

  210. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    So much about what the EU will & won’t “accept” lol!

    Ukr*ain* was fast tracked & I*is sold them oil LOL!

    We have nothing in common with England.
    Scotland is socialist. England is not.
    The English vote Tory. They are rejected here & have been for over 70 yrs.

    Scotland can be a good neighbour. The advent of the internet means I can share a recipe with the whole wide world now.

    Scotland is a country & a country should be in charge of its territory, it’s resources & it’s own decisions on how we go ern at home & abroad. & On foreign policy.

    Brexit was the final nail. 2014 was the last chance. The English arrogance of Westminster killed the union.

    Scotland is also outward looking. We want to trade with the EU markets either through membership but more quickly by joining EFTA. 6 months as opposed to a decade. The world deals with each other like adults. Not exceptionalism thinking they’re special.

    The fishing industry for example – shafted by Brexit. On funding & their markets obliterated by English exceptionalisim.

    Young ppls futures too – to study, work, live & advance skills like in medicine for example.

    The union is not going back under any circumstances.
    Scotland will be independent. It’s not going away.
    The nonsense we need permission is a lie.
    It’s a new invention since Scotland looked like leaving.
    That simply doesn’t stack up in international law.
    & Has been confirmed too by a UN international lawyer.
    There is no treaty that cannot be ended. Ever.

    England do not. They want to be isolationist.

    What the likes of Main needs to understand is it’ll be up to Scots.
    The 1 million who voted for Brexit would not do so now that reality has hit & the liars have been exposed. They were duped by a slogan & rather than admit it they double down to the detriment of everyone.

    England wanted independence. They should have it. English nationalists cheered for their day of independence with little regard for the plastic nu English on here lol.

  211. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    They did want to stop it. Bumping their gums it was disrespectful. Farage, braverman, sunak, starmer.. et all.

    & Yourself included.

  212. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Main

    The I can be mentioned. Israel.
    It’s anti Semitic to lump all J*ws together.

    & There you go again proving our point – so called freedom fighters are really censorship fre*ks.

  213. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    What the likes of Geri need to understand is that the future of Scotland will be up to Sovereign Scots like me.

    We’ve had 10 years of moonhowling fantasies, primary playground baiting, and lies from the likes of Geri. Lying through their teeth has become a lifestyle choice for the likes of Geri, they couldn’t stop even if they wanted to.

    The Sovereign Scot and New Scot grown ups are taking it from here. We’ve been left with no choice.

  214. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    The post about the Israeli sniper. He’s on his way to hell.

    I hope the sniper is ravaged with guilt for the rest of his life. His relationships collapse. He becomes an alcoholic and loses everything. And that’s before his soul is tortured in hell for all eternity for being and evil sinner.

  215. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    Scotland’s fishing catch by tonnage landed is up about 10% since Brexit.

    Unfortunately, fish prices are down by around 16% since 2020, so the overall value is lower.

    Look at the data. Don’t start from your prejudices.

  216. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 10:35 pm

    “If you can’t get people to buy into your ideas, you ain’t going anywhere.”

    Actually the former head of Malta Freeport Container Terminal offered to take a 30 year lease on Scapa Flow and put in place the quay and yard cranes. And a Maersk Line executive was ready to manage the terminal for OIC Harbours Dept.

    Unfortunately the ScotGov, UK state owned EMEC and Fergus bloody Ewing instead decided to recruit a renewables idiot and to use the Lyness/Hoy site on the £50m since bankrupt Pelamis wave energy white elephant, which OIC recently purchased for £1.

    Colonialism always leaves a colony under-developed, also thanks to a mediocre meritocracy.

  217. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    The armistice day protests are direct response to the British Government, allowing the Israeli government to massacre with impunity.

    It won’t be long until 300,000 Scottish men and women are marching for Independence. I give it 5 years.

    After Scotland United fails.

    It was clear today that British foreign policy is despised by the people that live here.

    The fabric of the United kingdom’s is collapsing.

    The youth of today despise Britain. Who cut down the Sycamore Gap tree?

    And now it’s LondonStan.

  218. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I think that Scotland United will fail at the election because the SNP want to obliterate themselves. They will not support Scotland United under any circumstances.

    After that 2026 onwards. Well see the Alba Party rise up and the crowds take to the streets.

    The future of Britain looks bleak. There is nothing left a dead state.

  219. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Only the British and the Americans can stop the Israeli’s from butchering Palestinians.

    I fear they are itching for the Arab states to intervene.

    The control of the military industrial complex a phrase that’s getting banded about is clear for all to see.

    And it’s despised. No one is going to fight for Britain now. Armistice day will become a protest day for all of Britain’s illegal wars from here and until their seat is taken from them at the UN security council.

    They brought it on themselves. Time for Independence.

  220. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Britain is finished. It has never looked more finished.

    Their diplomacy is in tatters. We are a lone state. Multicultural. Nothing owned by the people.

    The primark of Europe.

  221. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s clear from today that the British Government has no mandate for it’s place on the UN security council.

    The SNPs pro NATO stance has never looked weaker.

    The SNP are finished. There’s no way back.

  222. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan 11.01

    The EU is a can kicking exercise to remain on the gravy bus or is it for far more sinister reasons like throwing a ref?

    They’ve no control over whether we join or not so should stop trying to pretend they do by linking it to a completely separate referendum on Scotlands constitution.

    You’re right, the EU has shifted & not in the right direction. I’m not sure I would vote for it now but as far as trade goes – we’ll want to get on & open our horizons.
    Not tied to a restrictive domestic market. I think the ideal stepping stone would be EFTA until Scotland has her house in order which is a requirement of EU membership anyway.

    You’re right too about the SNP. They did hee-haw to stop the power grab, the cross party no consent of those powers being stripped & to trigger even just one of their many mandates – even just to see what would be offered.

    Instead she chose to try & void her own mandate with the stop Brexit nonsense.

    Just followed Republics link which followed on to Alex Salmond. A question from the audience was what was Sturgeons weakness – he replied far too timid & she was but I’d add a lot more after that lol!

    9 yrs wasted. Mandates gifted like sweeties, membership soaring, Westminster by the nuts on the momentum of 2014 & she secured not even so much as a bit of Devo gained from any of it.

    What an absolute Muppet.

  223. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf.Baird,

    you are always very keen to lay things at the door of colonialism. However, there are smarter heads out here in the real world than you’ll ever wear upon your own shoulders, and the vast majority of what you spout is utter nonsense.

    There’s no investment case behind the foolish idea of a transshipment hub in the Orkneys. And there’s no historical fact behind the lunatic theory that Scotland was ever colonised by England.

  224. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ll put my predictions in early.

    I think the SNP will hang on – just.

    Because of the Yoon vote & because it suits Westminster just fine to even rig it in their favour.

    Westminster – because SNP blocks Alex Salmond from Holyrood. Nuff said.
    Yoons – because SNP blocks Alex Salmond, they’ll never call a ref & they’ll go on enjoying mitigation they’ll not get from a Yoon being in charge.

    Hope I’m wrong..

  225. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    ASS

    Why don’t you leave then? What’s keeping you here?

    When was the last time you had a meeting in Holyrood with regards Scotlands shipping & future potential?

    Never.

    Alf has. I’ll take his insights a lot quicker than some random knob on the internet countering anti Scottish shite.

    I’m surprised Stu hasn’t reigned you in for personal attacks. You continually hound & try to belittle Alf & it doesn’t go unnoticed.

    You serve fuck all purpose here.

  226. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    *chuntering.

    Not countering.

  227. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    the only thing that matters in national life is whether investment is incoming, or declined. If one can make more money out of a Chilean copper mine than from a Scottish transshipment hub, that’s where the money goes.

    So you say that Alf has had some meetings with Holyrood nonentities. Well woo-hoo. The fact is that naff all has come from it, because it’s a seriously stupid idea. And so the money goes elsewhere. You should learn from that.

    As for your final remark, look into the mirror. You serve no purpose whatsoever to the future of Scotland, whatever it may be. Too dim, too sweary, no original thought, too aggressive. Just a shouty sheep.

  228. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    You’re not going to believe this story.

    I have no reason to doubt the story it was told by a teaching friend of mine, who’s co colleague used to be a civil servant who worked with Sturgeon.

    Sturgeon used to treat her civil servants like shit.

    Aparently she took a literal dump in the back of a range rover. Instead of waiting to go to the toilet at an event.

    She got them all to vacate the car until she took a dump in the back of a range rover.

    I’m sorry I have told this story. I was nearly sick hearing it myself.

    It just goes to show she’s a nut job. Not normal.

  229. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah says:
    12 November, 2023 at 2:00 am
    You’re not going to believe this story…

    First reaction is naaaaah!

    Second reaction is to be on your guard… it sounds suspiciously like it “could” be a ludicrously false story designed to flush out a mole, or at least a leak… Even if corroborated, I’d still be acutely suspicious.

    Third reaction is Sturgeon is the great betrayer of Scotland, the Benedict Arnold of out time, and what she did to Salmond was contemptible beyond redemption. The wretch can’t sink any lower in my eyes already.

  230. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 12:49 am

    “there’s no historical fact behind the lunatic theory that Scotland was ever colonised by England.”

    It is a very well established fact that Scotland’s history is absolutely one of centuries of constant attack from, and then political, economic and cultural domination by another country, i.e. colonial rule.

    The Scots current ‘condition’ is therefore a legacy of colonialism – economic, political, social, and perhaps most importantly, psychological.

    Have a good look at Scotland – like any exploited people its an under-developed mess compared with more developed neighboring countries, and not even in control of its ain cultur an langage nivver mynd its ain resources.

    Denial (of oppression) by some of the oppressed group, particularly the complicit native ‘elites’, is part of the ‘condition’. They have to somehow defend their hypocrisy in being part of the colonial ‘racket’.

    This is why a more enlightened people call for self-determination and independence, which the UN refer to as ‘decolonization’, i.e. to bring an end to colonial exploitation and liberation from oppression.

    https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/

  231. Alastair
    Ignored
    says:

    It is a time when politicians are most dangerous as the focus and front pages are on the Middle East and marches and important accountability is de focused .
    “ now is a good time to bury bad news”
    Watch as it happens

  232. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird, at 7:58 am,

    What a hoot. You seriously misunderstand reality. You are trying to bend history to fit square facts into the round holes of your imagined theory.

    Scotland has never been colonised. Rather, we Scots have been the greatest colonisers in human history. Scots have prospered greatly across the world’s surface as part of the broadest empire the world has ever seen, and more locally in our union. The Welsh, Irish and English have never been dominant in our national capital, we maintain our own traditions, law, culture, and we maintain our way of life. Scots at times have run our union at every level, from national leadership, monarchy, through our finances, our military, our great companies, our foreign representation, religious life, academic leadership (I don’t count fourth rate polys in Edinburgh in that), medical advances, and a thousand other ways.

    You have things completely backside about face. You are embarrassingly wrong, and I give you due warning: there ain’t no second academic career for you in pushing your failed theories. They’re a nonsense, man.

  233. Den
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone ever seen Geri and the poster formerly known as Ruby in the same room. ?

  234. stuart.mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    George Ferguson @8.00 pm

    What a donkey

    On bright side (not really), his call for the head of the beautiful home secretary for having set the police against the BNP implies that his earlier rant about bright people was not only out of character but may also have been imposed on him by others

    Others who, when presented with revelations of a £11,000 claim for a weeks worth of roaming charges, would rather scratch each others eyes out than take legislative responsibility for OFCOM (FFS!)

    Of which (donkeys), who else saw the descendants of a particularly well loved one moving South and think Jesus, Mary and Joseph if the Pope is catholic, and that Joe Biden is as Irish as he is coherent, why on earth does the holy land continue to escape the Spanish inquisition

    Hopefully its something as mundane as the (covid) masked highwaymen at ASCE being so distracted by the puddles in Scotland’s school playgrounds that they missed the implications of a 31 level jenga pile not becoming a 20 level pile when level 26 is removed..

    .. rather than, say, anything related to the 3Km long Basra road junkyard that helped memory hole the 1975-1990 conflict – and the nulabour rules of engagement vis a vis human shields, collateral damages (incl of the type wiki leaks revealed to have been recorded – but not for posterity, absolution or the paymasters*) and non embedded reporters that appeared to be brought in for the (unprovoked?) bayonetting of the wounded in round 2 of same.

    *ie taxpayer/the of the people by the people for the people thing they got going for them over there, and NOT someone else’s magic (vampire) genie

  235. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird – Are you forgetting Scotland’s role in the recent banking crash? If Scotland was independent, and that had happened, we would have been on the hook for the best part of a £Trillion.

  236. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Den the troll

    Ruby & I have had many an exchange over GRR on here.

    Go use the search function instead of asking dumb questions.

  237. dasBlimp
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad says:
    12 November, 2023 at 8:31 am
    Alf Baird, at 7:58 am,

    What a hoot. You seriously misunderstand reality. You are trying to bend history to fit square facts into the round holes of your imagined theory.

    Scotland has never been colonised. Rather, we Scots have been the greatest colonisers in human history. Scots have prospered greatly across the world’s surface as part of the broadest empire the world has ever seen, and more locally in our union. The Welsh, Irish and English have never been dominant in our national capital, we maintain our own traditions, law, culture, and we maintain our way of life. Scots at times have run our union at every level, from national leadership, monarchy, through our finances, our military, our great companies, our foreign representation, religious life, academic leadership (I don’t count fourth rate polys in Edinburgh in that), medical advances, and a thousand other ways.

    Well said, ASA.

    The Scots have much that is in evidence to be proud of. It’s a pity that so many commenters here don’t see it simply because it doesn’t fit their prejudices and bigotry.

  238. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    The easiest test of whether your country is «colonized» is to note how it is viewed abroad.
    Scotland for most is perceived as part of England after all you speak English and have an English head of state, so the logic runs.
    The term England, and its equivalents, is the standard referent United Kingdom or Great Britain is officialese. In the streets Scots are anglais, ingles, Engländer, angliiskii etc.
    Stateless minorities are simply invisible despite any protestation to the contrary.
    That i know for fact.
    In England too, the UK and England do tend to blend in the popular imagination into the same entity.
    «Speak for England» slips very easily from the tongue. «For England James» likewise.
    Edinburgh is the capital city of England’s Scotland…as a Chinese reference book may still have it.

  239. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf

    Scotland should just dissolve the treaty.
    It’s a co signatory & the contract has been broken so many times that’s it’s clear it’s not even worth the paper it’s written on.

    Everyone knows our resources are extracted for our neighbours benefit, we are under developed, held back dealing globally in the world & the latest bullshit, forbidden from asking our own country their opinion through a referendum.

    No other country would put up with this shit. The treaty must be terminated. A voluntary union needs no permission to leave.

  240. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Turabdin,

    all that illustrates is that other peoples don’t understand the reality either.

  241. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart.mctavish – Are you trying to make a point here? If you are trying to make a point, what point are you trying to make?

    Take a look at the article and the language used in the article. Does it sound anything like yours? If it did, Wings over Scotland would expire within a fortnight.

  242. dasBlimp
    Ignored
    says:

    TURABDIN says:
    12 November, 2023 at 9:37 am
    The easiest test of whether your country is «colonized» is to note how it is viewed abroad.

    Their ignorance does not prove that Scotland is a colony. It just proves they’re a bit thick.

  243. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah, i see that to add to the fabulous «nationalist» checklist there is now a «unionist» one.
    Enjoy the cross referencing!
    We were first, we did that, we discovered, we came, we saw we conquered….well not exactly, but we do love our myths.

  244. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Only on the discovery of North Sea oil did the the word Britain start to be used regularly in daily life.

    Before that, the words England and Anglo were the words used by politicians and media internationally (I.e. outwith Scotland) when referring to Britain.

  245. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Cappy

    Wrong.

    The bailout was £66 billion.
    Scotlands GDP in 2008 was £145 billion.

    We’d have change to spare paying a share.

    We’d more than have survived.

    Would we have allowed it to happen in the first place?
    What happened to the corrupted bankers?
    Is RBS even Scottish – were any of it Scottish decisions?
    How did England survive it? Did they just print it or tag it on to their never ending overdraft?
    Why even bail them out? Let them go bust & jail them like Iceland did. Why save other people’s incompetence?

    The UK fcked up that bail out. They didn’t even pay it either – they wrote it off. Taxpayers were swindled in that con eh?

    Still. It allowed the corrupt Tories to drive austerity on steroids, what mugs to fall for that shit eh? £66 billion out the taxpayer’s pocket to reward the rich lol…

    Let’s see if you can actually answer something that’s not circa 2014.

  246. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart.mctavish

    Soz an a’ that, but I read your post through twice and I can’t make head nor tail of it. I think you assume too much background knowledge on the part of the reader.

    Den

    Good spot, good question. Scotland’s a wee place, what’s the chances of twa o them at once? Like Indy refs, I’m thinking it has to be a once a generation occurrence.

  247. Alastair
    Ignored
    says:

    Captain at 9.23
    That’s assuming we would be like the UK corrupt, giving Banking, trading and financial services legal freedom and minimal regulation to fill their boots rather than proper management for the common good.

  248. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    BBC and papers today desperate to conflate 300000 peace protesters and 100 british unionists starting a fight at the cenotaph.

    It was clearly ab organised fight from unionists

  249. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri – It doubled the National Debt from £1triilion to £2Trillion. A £Trillion is 1,000 £Billion. Sir Fred Goodwin was a Scotsman and RBS and HBOS are Scottish.

  250. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s only England who are supreme. It’s everyone else that’s thick.

    TURABDIN

    I’d say the Chinese have that right. The English have moved in & taken over our capital city & forced the people of Edinburgh out.
    Even festivals & events have been completely taken over & there is absolutely no hope of ever finding affordable accommodation with private landlords drunk on rents. Even Edinburgh Castle & it’s gardens are fenced off contraptions spoiling even the view for the locals & tourists.

    It’s having a detrimental affect now. The last Fringe event tourists just stayed away & I don’t blame them. Figures drastically down. It’s a rip off & it’s no longer local talent but taken over by loan sharks & rent overlords. It’s another tourist attraction that’s been drowned out & captured by settlers.

  251. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake said;

    “Republicofscotland – what is a country? It’s just a word. What was the binding event that made Scotland as it is now, immutable? Was it democratic? In 2014 there was a democratic event that endorsed the UK. Internationally we are treated as one country, with the small exception of certain sports.”

    You know perfectly well what a country is.

    ‘Country’ is just a word that defines a named territory that has reasonably well-defined formal borders agreed with its neighbours, and which distinguishes that territory from others, and especially from those neighbours. Its people, culture, language, and customs may or may not be specific to it, and may be shared broadly among its neighbours.

    Its laws and constitutional principles, on the other hand, are much more likely to be specific to it, and the jurisdiction of its laws would not extend beyond its borders. Where those jurisdictions meet other jurisdictions will almost certainly be at a border with another country. And that makes such jurisdictional interfaces an excellent basis for defining a country in the first place. So there goes your Orkney and Shetland independence or their transfer to another ‘country’.

    Scotland’s borders are well defined, as are its constitution and laws, and in many respects its people and their languages and customs are too. Identifying Scotland as a country and delineating its borders isn’t remotely difficult, so, what’s your point, Pat?

    “Is it fair to threaten people and businesses with the disruption every few years?

    And if you used any old election to make decisions that affected international agreements, why would the EU ever admit you? You could be in, out, in, out, shake it all about. What if there was a second election before you’d actually separated from the UK and the results weren’t favourable for separation? Would all the efforts built up to that point be abandoned?”

    You are heavily over-egging your argument. The only constitutional-level matter we are talking about is Scotland’s independence, and we are only having to use ‘any old elections’ because the anti-democratic self-serving UK English government is unconstitutionally denying us a referendum on the matter.

    It simply isn’t the case that even after achieving our independence we would be making constitutional-level, or international-agreement-level decisions with normal elections every second or third election.

    It hasn’t happened anywhere else, and there’s no particular reason to suppose that an iScottish government would treat the Scottish electorate with the same casual disregard as our current UK English one does.

    Your argument is a straw man, and therefore bogus.

  252. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @TURABDIN 9:37

    Ever spoken to a proud Bavarian? Maybes you’ve conversed in French with a citizen of the Saarland? Scoffed a stein with a Schleswig-Holsteiner?

    If you have done any of these, did you ask them how they feel about being generally described as Germans? Do they have any reservations about being ruled from Berlin, when they are not being ruled from Brussels?

    Do they claim to be colonised, or would they consider the Colonisation Trope daft?

    [Admittedly, the special cases of Germany and France, who largely run the EU as their own special club, to their own advantage, make it unlikely you will find much Brussels rule resentment in either country]

  253. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s only England who are supreme. It’s everyone else that’s stupidy.

    TURABDIN

    I’d say they have that right. The English have moved in & taken over our capital city & forced the residents out.

    Even festivals & events have been completely taken over & there is absolutely no hope of ever finding affordable accommodation with private landlords drunk on rents. Even the Castle & it’s gardens are fenced off contraptions spoiling even the view for the locals & tourists.

    It’s having a detrimental affect now. The last Fringe event tourists just stayed away & I don’t blame them. Figures drastically down. It’s a rip off & it’s no longer local talent but taken over by loan sharks & rent overlords. It’s another tourist attraction that’s been drowned out & captured by s*ttlers not here for the tourism.

  254. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad said;

    “Yet again, a breezy assertion that you don’t evidence is that Scotland is under colonial rule”

    And yet again, a breezy assertion from you that you don’t evidence, that Scotland is NOT under colonial rule, despite solid evidence that it is.

    The clearest evidence is that pseudo-democratic theatre in the House of Commons that imposes decisions of the MPs of one country over the contrary decisions of the MPs of a completely different country. That one-sided imposition in a Union of equals is colonialism from its bald patch to its toenails.

  255. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Many years ago I had a forum.

    It’s very easy in the admin to see IP log ins & tell who exactly is using multiple ID’s.

    Stu should check because the britnats on here all sound rather familiar to each other.

    Also, they’re not serving much purpose & I can already guess the unlikelihood of them contributing some wonga for their daily fail ramblings will be nill.

    Unlike long term users.

  256. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    DASBLIMP/ASCOTABROAD

    Ooops, not getting into the stupid, thicko foreigner thingy are we?
    The outsider may see more clearly than those close to the thing itself.
    The outsiders’ clarity of perspective, uninfluenced by local detail, may disturb and irritate but the viewpoint may be closer to «reality» than the insider might be comfortable with, a mirror held too close to the warts.
    Individual Scots contributed substantially to the British imperial project but now it is timely for the Scots, as a nation, to move on.
    England likewise.
    Don’t get me started on the Ottomans, good, bad or whatever. Perspective is critical there too.

  257. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri @ 9:48 am

    “Scotland should just dissolve the treaty. It’s a co signatory & the contract has been broken so many times that’s it’s clear it’s not even worth the paper it’s written on.”

    Yes, the SNP lack the courage to use any one of their 6 national majorities in favour of independence to withdraw Scotland from the union.

    And had they wanted to confirm that sovereign power, Sturgeon/Yousaf might have long since presented the violations to the Treaty to the appropriate court.

    Real nationalists would have little hesitation using either exit route. Which merely confirms the SNP’s deceit as causing the rupture in the movement.

  258. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen

    You ignore the “lived reality” of millions of Europeans and EU citizens who are staying in the towns (and sometimes the houses) of their grandparents, but in different (and sometimes new) countries.

    My point is that in Realpolitik, a country is whatever an occupying army says it is. You need to get real.

    You have a particular bee in your bonnet about Orkney and Shetland, and that surprises me. You truly believe that just because one monarch handed the islands over to another monarch a few centuries ago, with no reference whatsoever to the people living there, that this entitled gift has to be continued unchallenged for all eternity.

    Again, you need to get real.

    If your subtext is that iScotland will be a poor and impoverished wee place without the rich resources of these islands, just be honest about that. The solution is an obvious one, iScotland will have to offer the inhabitants of these islands better terms than they will get from Norway.

    Or, if they still persist in remaking true to their own Ancient Guff, we can keep them by force, if we can.

    The world’s a harsh and hostile place, Xaracen. Don’t ever assume you can change one thing (Indy) but everything else will stay exactly the same.

  259. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Cappy

    ‘Geri – It doubled the National Debt from £1triilion to £2Trillion.’

    Did it really? & You’ve seen the accounts have you to make doubly sure?

    How dig £66 billion become a Trillion?

    Whoever heard of such nonsense. Banks being bailed out by the little people – behave! LOL!

    & Just because an organisation has a *Scottish bloke* doesn’t mean it’s acting on behalf of Scotland or has any authority.

    Did Scotland actually have any input in making unregulated decisions that caused the crash?

  260. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri, you keep saying ‘Scotland should’ as if Scottish people were all of one mind. Evidently, they’re not. The SNP couldn’t just tear up agreements because they knew that there would be repercussions. Not least being arrested and tried for any number of things. The UN would have whinged but done nothing to interfere. The EU would have approved. The SNP have given the Scottish people a feel for what it would have after independence and it has become less and less attractive. Socialism is only attractive if the money is being spent on things you respect and will probably benefit from. The SNP’s declining support was reflected in their diminishing funds. Alba has not seen the scales tip significantly their way. How do the voters know that Alba candidates will do better than SNP or Labour versions? The public want to see that independence could work. They want costed answers. Would you trust the SNP to get the figures right? Eventually shouting ‘who is with me’ returns an embarrassing silence.

    So who is leading the campaign to tear up ancient documents and just walk away? Stuff is easy to say on a blog, far more difficult to do in reality. How about you guys start to discuss what Scotland would need and do after Independence and come up with ideas and costs? Who knows, you might have something great by the time you can legitimately call for a new vote on it? I do know that dreams of a socialist utopia would scare as many as it attracted. How about some great plans for slimline, targeted socialism, balanced with canny money management?

  261. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri – Relax please. I’m waiting for Stuart McTavish to respond. Other than that, I have no business here for the rest of the day.

  262. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Rupture in the movement? I believe there’s a Truss available!

    Soz, Alf, couldn’t resist 🙂

  263. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    The Yossbot is not good with figures.

  264. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    JOHNMAIN

    Without going deeply into Germanness, which was often considered too close to Prussianness i understand, especially by the Bavarians who post WWI had a movement for unification with Austria, the Holy Roman Empire, much older than the UK and Britishness, coloured regional attitudes as did the divisions which appeared with the rise of Protestantism and the emergence of a standard form of «German» thus forming something recognizable as the broad cultural entity of Germania.
    German unification as a nation state/Reich was late by European standards but it did not obliterate regionalism, especially at the local linguistic level, Bayrisch and Kölnisch have their adherents.
    Knowing that is of purely academic interest, to most outsiders they are all Germans, as Bretons are French, Catalans and Basques Soanish and Syriacs are Arabs.
    As i posted above stateless minorities, even large ones, are generally invisible to most, unless they get fractious.

  265. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Pat Blake 11:00

    Good post.

    I have a wee slogan, that not only fits on a T shirt, but energises and enthuses Sovereign Scots and New Scots alike.

    SHOW US THE MONEY

    For some reason, it upsets many of the regulars on here. But nevertheless, in the guise of “making the economic case for Indy”, I believe it has some traction within Alba.

    And so we wait …

  266. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Forgive me Geri, I just saw your response: “Did Scotland actually have any input in making unregulated decisions that caused the crash?” The “regulatory decisions” were made by Gordon Brown. Remember “sort touch” regulation?

  267. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main said;

    “The world’s a harsh and hostile place, Xaracen. Don’t ever assume you can change one thing (Indy) but everything else will stay exactly the same.”

    And where exactly did I make that assumption, John? You just made that up.

    The whole point of Indy IS to change all sorts of things.

  268. Ali Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    For the last two posts there have been +500 & +700 replies, which would suggest a healthy amount of interest and engagement. It may also suggest an unhealthy amount of interest from ‘poor actors’. I would suggest that a bit of data analytics on these posts and posters might glean some useful information…

    Ever get the feeling your being gamed, infiltrated or diluted?

  269. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen says:
    12 November, 2023 at 10:27 am

    “‘Country’ is just a word that defines a named territory that has reasonably well-defined formal borders agreed with its neighbours,”

    But the agreed borders etc are with the UK, not Scotland. That’s why the gender reform bill was scrapped. It would have impacted the rest of the UK.

    “The only constitutional-level matter we are talking about is Scotland’s independence, and we are only having to use ‘any old elections’ because the anti-democratic self-serving UK English government is unconstitutionally denying us a referendum on the matter.”

    But you had your referendum in 2014 and Scotland turned independence down. You will get another one after a reasonable time. Wasn’t the phrase ‘settled for a generation’? There was nothing about ‘unless we are dragged out of the EU’. Returning to the EU is fading in popularity here on Wings. There is talk of EFTA. So is being in the EU still enough of a justification for another referendum? Actually WM are probably doing you favour by rejecting the calls for another referendum because the realities of leaving the EU are a bit of an eye opener on breaking away from a bigger entity. Not to mention the performance of the SNP as a party/government.

    Seriously, if ever there was a time to put demands on hold and regroup to form better plans, this is it.

  270. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Exactly right TURABDIN

    They continually live in the past & even now, 12 yrs on, they still harm back to 2014 with the same old debunked arguments like we’ve all just heard it for the first time.
    Someone needs to update their botware.

    Also correct that we accept criticism with good grace.
    They see it as a personal insult & some retribution is in order.

  271. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main said;

    “You have a particular bee in your bonnet about Orkney and Shetland”

    You made that up, too! I have no such bee in my bonnet, I only mentioned it to make a point to another commenter, and that point was entirely valid in the context I made it in.

    Orkney and Shetland are more closely integrated in Scotland than Scotland is in the Union, because of clear legal and constitutional disparities in the latter case, but which don’t exist in the former case.

  272. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Here comes the antiquated orange order FFS.
    Thumping their drums for another stuck in the past, outdated, bigoted & irrelevant nonsense.

    I’m sure the war dead didn’t give a fck for this nonsense.

    Why has that not been banned from our streets yet & restricted to an isolated park somewhere well away from civilization? ?

  273. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    “Only four men in Europe had ever understood the ‘Schleswig-Holstein Question’: one, Prince Albert, is dead, the second, a Danish statesman, is in an asylum and the third, myself, have forgotten it.
    And of course, there is that wazzock John Main”

    -Lord Palmerston

  274. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    PATBLAKE.
    «settled for a generation» who said that?
    There is more than an element of the apocryphal about this but repeat often enough and nobody need have originated the notion.

  275. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Harking back to 2014. Again.

    Scottish independence isn’t going away.
    The SNP is not the independence movement & an iScot will decide our relationship with the EU. Not the SNP & certainly not Westminster.
    We didn’t turn independence down. Other people did.
    It’s not up to you or Westminster when we can hold a referendum or end the treaty either. Would you have accepted that nonsense from the EU?

    Zzzz at the once in a generation. If we’re now taking everything literally when can we expect to see bojo dead in a ditch?

  276. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “Alf Baird hasn’t explained anything to my satisfaction. He’s got some crazy theories, about colonialism, and some warped money-losing idea of making Scapa Flow into a transshipment hub, none of which stack up in my view. They all seem to be contrary to reality.”

    ASA.

    You couldn’t lace Alf Baird’s boots, that how far down your opinion is to most in here. Alf has Scots and Scotland’s interests at heart, the same definitely cannot be said of you.

  277. stuart.mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @John Main

    Cheers & sorry also!

    That particularly rubbish effort must have gotten carried away with thoughts of more halcyon days when echo beach still conjured memories of party islands and Edinburgh’s (late) night schools rather than projecting that right lonely and miserable looking one from planet of the apes.

    Timely reminder of the amount of training required if I’m to see their like again though, so cheers x 2

  278. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Ali Clark – A “poor actor” is someone who is sponsored and is not expressing his or her own views. The site owner will be able to identify that. I am expressing my own opinions as are probably all of the others. Any suggestion to the contrary is, I suspect, an allusion. A much bigger problem is those who think of themselves as advanced thinkers and post vapid nonsense, expecting to be taken seriously.

  279. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Geri says:12 November, 2023 at 11:30 am

    somewhere well away from civilization

    Ach Geri, why is it that I have the impression that if they are marching past your front door, then they are already well away from civilisation?

    BTW, Geri, see when you spell ‘civilisation’ with a ‘z’, that’s your linguistics been colonised by the Yanks.

    I wouldn’t mention it, only you do keep banging on about colonisation, and it strikes me that when somebody is protesting about something, maybes they should lead by example.

    Agreed?

  280. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “My point is that in Realpolitik, a country is whatever an occupying army says it is. You need to get real.

    You have a particular bee in your bonnet about Orkney and Shetland, and that surprises me.”

    The above only reinforces the need for dissolving the union and dissolving it sooner than later, Scotland has no army, navy or airforce to defend itself from it larger bellicose neighbour.

    Our neighbour has already appropriated 6,00sq miles of Scottish waters, our oil and gas minerals, it uses a myriad of stealth procedures to remove wealth from Scotland and replace it with English accrued debt, it then tells us that we have so much debt we’d never be able to survive as an independent nation.

    Our supposedly “partner in this treaty of union is stealing our electricity and selling it back to us at a higher cost, we have absolutely no say on immigration on who can and can’t live in Scotland that is decided 500 miles away in another country.

  281. Ali Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    Captain Yossarian

    Apologies if for some reason you felt the post was directed at you, one can only wonder why you would feel that way?

    I am merely pointing out an increased interaction at a time where there is little to be debated, scrutinised or argued over. Just trying to figure why the figures are so high!

    Many thanks for the definition of a ‘poor actor’ I doubt many thought I was referring to Ewan McGregor!

  282. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Xaracen says:12 November, 2023 at 11:27 am

    You continue to ignore the fact that Orkney & Shetland were gifted by one entitled, unelected individual, to another entitled, unelected individual, over the heads of all of the inhabitants.

    If that’s not an ancient wrong screaming out for redress, then what is?

    There’s plenty of us who would opt for Norwegian citizenship over Scottish citizenship in a trice. FFS Xaracen, it’s a no-brainer. But for us Mainlanders, that is most unlikely to happen.

    The citizens of Orkney & Shetland however, have a legitimate case for reunification with Norway if they want to make it. Both for historical reasons, and because it is only right that a democratic majority in any defined geographical area should be allowed to choose their own national destiny.

    You really need to stop insisting on the “Indy for me, but not for thee” trope. On a site like this one, it goes down like the proverbial lead balloon.

  283. Graf Midgehunter
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main says: at 10:28 am

    @TURABDIN 9:37

    “Ever spoken to a proud Bavarian? Maybes you’ve conversed in French with a citizen of the Saarland? Scoffed a stein with a Schleswig-Holsteiner?

    If you have done any of these, did you ask them how they feel about being generally described as Germans? Do they have any reservations about being ruled from Berlin, when they are not being ruled from Brussels?

    Do they claim to be colonised, or would they consider the Colonisation Trope daft?”
    —————————-
    Yes, I’ve spoken to thousands of proud Bavarians, we even have one in the family. Spoken French in Saarlouis and on the other side of the border in France. As for Luxembourg, “Letzelburgisch” is easy, it being a distinct dialect of German.

    After 4 years in Kiel, scoffing a Stein (stone beer mug/Steinkrug) doesn’t present a problem. 🙂 Even a Maß beer at the local Octoberfest..!

    They are all, without exception, proud of their heritage, culture and way of life. But all understand that being part of something bigger does have its advantages, whether Berlin or Brussels.

    The 16 German States or the 27 members of the EU have more (economic??) clout together than being individuals fighting a lone battle.

    One thing to finish off with, Bavaria is the largest German State with the largest economy and clout, they think of themselves as the Texas of Germany. They also a bit tongue-in-cheek, see Scotland as a brother folk..! 🙂 The German Conservative Party is made up of two separate entities, the Bavarian CSU and the rest of Germany CDU.

    As everyone here knows, if the opportunity arose, the Bavarians would at the drop of a hat vote to be independent.

  284. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “You continue to ignore the fact that Orkney & Shetland were gifted by one entitled, unelected individual, to another entitled, unelected individual, over the heads of all of the inhabitants.”

    Jeezo oh talk about reaching, okay lets play along for a wee minute with this nonsense, two case spring to mind the Isle of Man should be quickly returened to Scotland or Norway. In 1266, The Perth Treaty between Norway and Scotland officially recognised the Isle of Man under Scottish sovereignty.

    And the Isle of Wight should be quickly returned to the Italians as the Romans captured it.

    The Arabs ruled Malta for over 200 years, as for Gibraltar well the Treaty of Utreacht of 1713 should be torn up and the Spanish should be allowed to take back the island.

    There’s probably a million more examples of John Main’s nonsense as he tries to pull Xaracen’s chain, but we’ll leave it there.

  285. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s something big coming down the pipeline, lets have a little faith.

    https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/11/12/its-not-all-stop/

  286. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Ali Clark says : at 12:02 pm

    I am merely pointing out an increased interaction at a time where there is little to be debated, scrutinised or argued over. Just trying to figure why the figures are so high!

    You’re not a particularly regular btl poster so it’s interesting that you turn up and try to reinforce the position that there is little to be be debated, scrutinised or argued over.
    Maybe the posting figures are so high because “actors” are heavily engaged in saturating the site with a great deal of repetitive low level content to put folk off actually discussing more important matters.

    I hear the dodgy ASHP issues are beginning to come back and bite those that divised and rolled out such a flawed policy. Could well be a real protracted problem now trying to undo all the financial and legal contract matters relating to the purchase of the equipment, the physical work installing the systems, and then trying to resolve the cancelling of repayment of loans taken out by individuals, and the grants given to partially fund everything.
    What a fucking mess, but I told you this day would come…

  287. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Not sure which part of Norway JM wants to join: is it the aryan part or the Sami part?
    Not sure which part of 404 JM supports : is it the aryan part or the Slavic part?
    Not sure which part of the ME supports : is it the apartheid bit or the Semitic bit?
    Sovereign Scot, my arse.

  288. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    Pat Blake said;

    “But the agreed borders etc are with the UK, not Scotland. That’s why the gender reform bill was scrapped. It would have impacted the rest of the UK.”

    Blethers, there is a legally agreed border between Scotland and England, and it directly impacts on UK legislation, though not nearly as much as it should. That’s a different matter, and a major reason we want to our independence back.

    “But you had your referendum in 2014 and Scotland turned independence down. You will get another one after a reasonable time. Wasn’t the phrase ‘settled for a generation’? There was nothing about ‘unless we are dragged out of the EU’. Returning to the EU is fading in popularity here on Wings. There is talk of EFTA. So is being in the EU still enough of a justification for another referendum?”

    The phrase ‘settled for a generation’ was not a formal pre-requisite of the referendum, and its deliberate misinterpretation by the Unionists and the UK English government was and is bogus, and the outcome isn’t bound by it.

    As for “unless we are dragged out of the EU”, that only arose after a completely different referendum, which essentially denied the Scottish half of the Union its legitimate say in the matter.

    To clarify; yes, it let us have our say, but only in a constrained manner that gave the UK English government the wiggle room to ignore it in favour of the English half of the Union.

    Wanting to be in the EU is NOT our justification for another referendum, that’s just another Unionist lie; the justification for another referendum is to END the unwarranted subjection of Scotland to the unconstitutional, unlawful and abusive dominance of the MPs of the other kingdom in the Union’s shared parliament, who took us out in the first place, despite our decisive, democratically-expressed sovereign will to remain!

    Constitutionally, Scotland is an equal partner in the Union, but the English partner refuses to recognise that, because it lets him pretend that Scotland’s wealth really belongs to England.

  289. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main @ 12:07 pm

    “You continue to ignore the fact that Orkney & Shetland were gifted”

    Actually the Vikings stole them from the Picts during the 800s. They were returned to the Picts, who by that time were known as Scots.

  290. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    What it’s like to be a minority, even with a state, when the big boys would be rid of you.
    https://catholicherald.co.uk/british-armenians-fear-a-repeat-of-history-as-genocide-memorial-vandalised/
    Scotland has a memorial to the Armenian genocide, predating the London one, on Calton hill in Edinburgh.

  291. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS,

    it’s not “Scotland’s electricity”, it is electricity generated in Scotland by private companies, and sold either at spot market prices or at contractually pre-agreed bulk prices. The costs of production or transmission don’t come from Scottish government funds, and the licence to extract or produce are paid upfront and more than paid back to the Scottish government in block grants. It’s the same across the U.K.

    What next, are you going to be claiming that it’s “Scottish wind” for renewables? It ain’t. Two hours after it blows through the North Sea off Dundee, it’s blowing through English waters, and then another country’s waters. Same with tidal, and solar. And the Scottish taxpayer isn’t paying a penny for the cost of production, solely for what he consumes with some regulatory overhead charges and margin on top.

  292. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Military man NuEnglish there, presumably he got a D in geography.
    Because due to the stolen seas caused by Westminster moving the maritime border in 1999, the waters of the North Sea off Dundee are currently classed as English.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/scotlands-stolen-seas-technical-explanation/

  293. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen, at 1:10pm,

    Your last paragraph is total nonsense. The only one pretending here is you.

    Scotland doesn’t have a constitution, and it certainly doesn’t have a 50:50 say in what goes on across the whole U.K. Never has, never will, and no Scottish politicians have ever tried to make that pathetic argument.

    But don’t take my word for it: how about a legal professor from Scotland?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7O0ch_mB4w

  294. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I didn’t think the Zionists could stoop much lower I was wrong.

    https://nitter.net/Lowkey0nline/status/1723647395248955657#m

    https://nitter.net/kennardmatt/status/1723687692360179763#m

  295. Oneliner
    Ignored
    says:

    Being an army type, the subtleties of branding may be difficult to comprehend for Ass Caught Abroad.

    It’s not ‘Scottish Salmon’

    It is ‘Salmon intensively farmed in Scottish waters by mainly Norwegian parent companies’

    Try putting that on the side of a packet

    Similarly, when you look at (the passports of) its constituent parts, it’s not the ‘British’ Army, it is ‘The Army of Great Britain, its Former Colonies and Northern Ireland.

  296. Matt Quinn
    Ignored
    says:

    “Ali Clark says:
    12 November, 2023 at 11:18 am

    For the last two posts there have been +500 & +700 replies, which would suggest a healthy amount of interest and engagement. It may also suggest an unhealthy amount of interest from ‘poor actors’. I would suggest that a bit of data analytics on these posts and posters might glean some useful information…

    Ever get the feeling your being gamed, infiltrated or diluted?”

    …Or simply played like a piano!

    I rarely bother commenting here – or anywhere else for that matter – because there is little point in involving oneself in a silly wee ‘online bitchfight’. It’s not that I don’t have an opinion; simply that expressing one (regardless of how well or soundly formed) is met with infantile vitriol.

    – This is simply what politicos do; their contempt for the intelligence and integrity of the public knowing no bounds. It’s a vile little game played by vile little people.

    With no particular site in mind – one being as bad as the next…

    There are good profits to be made from e-begging, throwing the odd bit of slightly-putrid raw meat into the pen and leaving the animals in the political human zoo to rip each other apart over it. If the amount of actual input and stewardship necessary to keep the pretenders proles warring can be minimised; the louder the ker-ching!

    Rhetorically; who is really going to spend the time (who actually has the time!) to trawl through hundreds of unthreaded, incoherent comments – the vast majority of which are empty-headed tripe – to find what few grains of sense and legitimate commentary there might be…

    All of this certainly serves certain objectives. – As a supporter of Scottish independence are you dismayed and disillusioned and alienated by what the SNP has morphed into? – Then you must be a bigoted (X-O-Phobic) inarticulate, non-educated nutjob! – Pro union? Well here is clear evidence of that very same thing which will serve you equally well!

    Doesn’t matter – so long as the handbags keep slignin’ and the crones keep crawing and the fractions of a penny keep coming in.

    Why not get involved? Do one’s ‘own bit’ etc. they might caw mockingly!

    Well, it’s a bit like visiting Venice and realising that the canals are fetid running sewers (regardless of how they dress it all up) and ultimately the only people swimming with le feci are those happy to be relatively big smelly fish in what amounts to a tiny body of water; on that is essentially toxic.

    “Poor actors”… The very worst steamed Ham. But then, it’s all the same all of the time – this site is by no means unique or remarkable in that regard.

  297. Mike d
    Ignored
    says:

    TURABDIN, 9.37am. ‘In the streets Scots are anglais,ingles,Englander,angliiski etc, Stateless minorities are simply invisible despite any protestation to the contrary’
    Exactly, and that is why abroad i wear my Ireland rugby shirt
    Because i can’t be arsed trying to explain to any of the above nationalities why we were so f/in stupid as to vote against our own independence.

  298. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Are we being played like a violin?

    From 17th Sept. 2012 ?

    https://blogs.umb.edu/quoteunquote/2012/09/26/cindy-adams-breathlessly-and-casually-passes-on-an-elusive-kissinger-quote-about-israels-future/

    Actual quote or not, the timing is interesting.

  299. Pat Blake
    Ignored
    says:

    JohnIm, could the timing mostly be to do with Wings taking a stand on self ID.

  300. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    A quite interesting read on the census and its future etc. Here’s a snippet from the article:

    “On gender identity, it adopted an impervious, “flawed” wording of the question originally formulated by campaigners rather than statisticians, which would lead to very skewed results even if relatively small numbers of people without good English or unfamiliar with gender theory misunderstood it.”

    “The census defines us. To scrap it is to lose sight of our past – and our future” https://archive.is/ewQKL

  301. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    The Turkish President Erdogan is a seasoned politician and a sly old fox to boot. What exactly is it that he’s after, he is speaking out against Israeli activities in Gaza as in the below chapter, but is Erdogan after a quick and full EU membership, which has eluded his country for years or does he want a free hand to wipeout Kurds, especially those associated with the PKK.

    The US can sanction both requests, if they feel the need to shut him up with regards to Israeli war crimes in Gaza.

    “Gaza is Palestinian land above all else, and the United States must accept this matter

    We have seen again that the United Nations and other international organizations become functionally incapable and blind when the dead are Muslims.

    Israel is committing war crimes by targeting refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques and churches in Gaza

    The future of the world and the lives of peoples cannot be left at the mercy of 5 countries that have veto power in the Security Council

    It is not possible to reach an understanding with Biden if he has an approach that Gaza is the land of Israel and not the Palestinian people.

    They are asking us to label Hamas a terrorist organization, but they are struggling to protect their land and fighting for their homeland.

    It is not possible to take initiatives or make plans against Turkey’s will in this region, as our positions, values, and principles are clear.

    There is no basis that serves peace more than holding a meeting in which all parties in the region participate, including the parties to the war.”

  302. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Mike @ 14.17.

    And yet, wearing a kilt in Spain or the Canaries, one is not only instantly recognised as Scots by virtue of El Falda Escocesa, I’ve never been identified as English.
    I imagine a Scotland rugby or football shirt would serve as well as an Ireland one … the Tartan Army are well known and loved wherever footy is played.

  303. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS

    ‘You couldn’t lace Alf Baird’s boots, that how far down your opinion is to most in here. Alf has Scots and Scotland’s interests at heart, the same definitely cannot be said of you’.

    Baird has his own interests first and foremost. I am always suspicious of individuals who try to show how smarter they are compared to everybody else. How intelligent is he really when he parrots the same repetitive drivel every day? The use of some guid Scots words only fools individuals like your self. There are a few people on here who can see right through his façade.

    Matt Quinn

    I am in full agreement with your post but some times I simply cannot help responding to some of the mince, even though I know it is a futile exercise. I think I am now at the point where I scroll past more posts than I actually read.

  304. Ali Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    Matt Quinn

    Many thanks for the affirmation.

  305. James
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossarian;

    “RBoS & BoS are Scottish” – yet more yoon bollocks.

    RBoS has been foreign owned for years and as for HBoS the clue is in the name; H stands for [The] Halifax who took over BoS many moons ago. Put that up your pipe and smoke it.

  306. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Instead of calling for a ceasefire this is what dis-untied kingdom lawmakers are calling for.

    “British lawmakers and members of the upper house of Parliament have called on the government to proscribe Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist organization, calling it a step toward stability to the Middle East. Proscribing the IRGC would make it a criminal offense to belong to the group, attend its meetings, or carry its logo in public. The IRGC is already subject to British sanctions. In a letter to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, more than 60 lawmakers said “given the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East, it is now more urgent than ever to proscribe the IRGC.””

    https://www.rferl.org/a/uk-proscribe-iran-revolutionary-guards-terrorist/32681574.html#:~:text=The%20IRGC%20is%20already%20subject%20to%20British%20sanctions.,more%20urgent%20than%20ever%20to%20proscribe%20the%20IRGC.%22

    I think its only fair that the Irainian government calls for the proscription of the SAS and the SBS, as terrorist organisations, removal of both would see a more stable Middle East come about.

  307. James
    Ignored
    says:

    And my, isn’t there lots and LOTS of yoon bollocks on here lately?

    Almost like they’re trying to ‘colonise’ the website….

  308. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossa @9:52

    Sorry to keep you waiting.

    In simple terms its a conflation of the boy that cried wolf and the three little pigs – ie the wolf doesn’t care about the justification for the deception, only the opportunity afforded by it.

    Encouraging to think the magic genies can solve the problem all by themselves (& soon enough) but suspect we still need to make a bit of headway, in an effort to help them, regardless,

  309. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Chas @ 2:51 pm

    “There are a few people on here who can see right through his façade.”

    Jings, A didna ken A hid a facade. The wife’ll be chuffed.

  310. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – “In simple terms its a conflation of the boy that cried wolf and the three little pigs – ie the wolf doesn’t care about the justification for the deception, only the opportunity afforded by it”.

    You referred in your earlier post to the ASCE. They are the world’s most respected engineers. If one of them disagreed with me then I’d be afraid that I was almost definitely wrong. If 44No of them disagreed with me, then it would be pretty much a slam-dunk, wouldn’t it? In fact, I would be embarrassed if that were ever to be the case.

    Well, 44No of them do disagree, not with me but with you. I don’t know what you know about this subject, but it didn’t take me 5 or 6 hours to reply to you. If you think I’m some sort of chicken lickin character then that is the allusion that has persisted for a long time but it isn’t working any more.

    If you know something about this subject then spit it out. That’s what this site is for after-all. I suspect it is you who is presenting the allusion that you actually have something to say which is worth saying?

    It’s a funny thing that in engineering it either works or it doesn’t work and if it doesn’t work than you have to let people know. That’s the ethical and legal position set out by the professional institutions and the law. Can I suggest you ruminate over that for the next 5 or 6 hours?

    I’ll look out for your response. Try writing it in straightforward English this time? Respond within the next hour and that will let me know that you are not some empty-box? You may be, but I haven’t made-up my mind yet.

    I think you’ll agree Stuart, if I am right, then it would be pretty serious stuff, wouldn’t it. Not chicken lickin, that’s for sure. It would be the end of the road for some folk. No more “opportunities afforded” so to speak.

    Ah well – if 44 experts say we are crap, we must be crap. That’s one way of looking at it, but I await your take on this extraordinary intervention.

  311. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ali Clark

    I noticed you wrote a short reply to Matt Quinn as what he wrote affirmed your existing thoughts. But just wondered what you think of my response to you.
    If nobody speaks, or listens, or engages with anybody that holds different views or knowledge on subjects then that is a significant factor as to why we find ourselves in the predicament we are in.
    Now obviously you could make the snap judgement that my response to you is just shite and can be discounted on the basis of the formatting error which italicised the whole text. That however is just an ongoing bug that the preview function doesn’t work on this site because Stu can’t be fucked sorting it out. That comments also take 15 to 20 mins to appear since the “upgrade” just adds to the notion some might have that he may have lost interest in btl discourse having any value at all.

    Having previously been a moderator on a forum there was actually a function called “awkward user” which could be discreetly applied to certain users to take the heat out of ongoing argy bargie. It basically made the site so slow and laggy for users to the point they lost the will to engage and gave up contributing. I never felt the need to apply the function as was always able to resolve matters through discourse when things kicked off. But regardless, if this site’s hellish to use functionality is down to the “upgrade” of a deliberate measure, it amounts to the same thing.

    Serious question, why do you even bother occasionally posting btl if you have nothing constructive to add, or develop any discussion beneficial to returning Scotland to self-governing status.

  312. Chas
    Ignored
    says:

    Baird

    You clearly only know one meaning of the word façade which is surprising given your perceived towering intelligence.

    The ‘vernacular’ you use is pathetic but, at least we were spared the C word. No doubt you will be along shortly, tomorrow, the next day, next week etc etc to bore us all yet again. The brain dead will, of course, lap it up.

    Those who can do-Do. Those who can’t do-Teach. Those who can’t teach-Lecture, generally at some 3rd rate college.

  313. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    It looks the war crimes against the al Shifa hospital in Gaza has saw Hamas suspend hostage negotiations.

    As revealed by Craig Murray, Hamas has an office in Qatar where US and Israeli delegates can meet with Hamas officials and discuss matters, the current Director of the CIA William Burns who had extensive post in the ME prior to his position as Director even visited Qatar, now it all looks like its in vain as the Zionists war crimes have suspended hostage exchanges.

    Meanwhile five American service men have died after their aircraft/helicopter plunged into the Med.

    https://nitter.net/spectatorindex/status/1723714993210933562#m

  314. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    From what I understand you’re projecting a dispute with a former employer/client onto (female) ministers in the Scottish government.

    That’s ludicrous whichever way I look at it but I’m afraid I’ve had enough experience with the genre to be not in the least surprised to be told of 44 such professionals who disagree with me, or allow you to make such assertion on their behalf.

    Have you got a response for Ruby yet, eg following the recent flooding?

  315. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad said;

    “Scotland doesn’t have a constitution, and it certainly doesn’t have a 50:50 say in what goes on across the whole U.K.”

    Indeed it doesn’t have a 50:50 say, but it damn well should! That’s the whole point.

    Scotland as a fully sovereign kingdom entered into an international Treaty with another fully sovereign kingdom, in which they BOTH agreed to the JOINT governance of their two territories, and that Treaty DID NOT and DOES NOT oblige the Scottish kingdom to submit to the authority of the English kingdom, and the English kingdom’s MPs can’t oblige it either on the basis of their numeric superiority because Scotland’s MPs are not answerable to them in any way at all. They answer only to their own kingdom, just as England’s MPs answer only to their kingdom.

    It is an English establishment fraud that misrepresents the Union as a partnership of 650 non-sovereign anonymous constituencies which didn’t negotiate, agree, sign, and ratify the Treaty, instead of the true partnership being that between the two named sovereign kingdoms which DID!

    Two kingdoms in the Union, one vote each in their shared parliament equals two votes! It is their kingdoms that each group of MPs represent for the purposes of that joint governance, not their constituencies. Thus the simple flat majority voting system in the House of Commons is constitutionally and democratically inept, irrelevant and inappropriate because it is utterly blind to the two sovereignties using it, and it must be replaced with a dual majority system, or the Union will soon be abandoned.

    “But don’t take my word for it: how about a legal professor from Scotland?”

    I watched that, and I’m not taking her word for it either. She just said, ‘no, Scotland doesn’t have a constitution of its own’, and carried on talking about the Scotland Act. But the 316 years of suppression of the fact of Scotland’s constitution by the UK English government and its English establishment, none of whom have ever bothered themselves to examine it properly, is enough to completely undermine her authority on the matter, making her just as clueless about it as you.

    The only authentic examination of Scotland’s pre-1707 legislative records for the purpose of sifting out and collating their constitutional content is that being undertaken by Salvo et al, and they’ve made a number of highly interesting discoveries.

    So be afraid, ASA, be very afraid. Your precious Union’s days are numbered!

  316. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS 2:42

    I would prefer not to have to abuse Rev Stu’s hospitality like this, but like a dog to its vomit, you just can’t leave the subject alone.

    So I think it only fair to respond.

    The ham boys are committing war crimes too by hiding in and under refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques and churches in Gaza.

    Incidentally, I was going to pull you up on your mention of churches, cos I thought it unlikely there could have been any Christians left, what with the expulsions of Copts and Christians that have been going on in the Middle East and North Africa in recent years. At the hands of the religion of peace, natch.

    But it turns out ther may well be a few left, although their numbers are down to around a third of what they were in pre ham boys days.

  317. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Matt Quinn 2:08

    One reason to keep coming back on here is that it serves as an education. Some posters are educated and knowledgeable. Some are ignorant, bigoted Neanderthals. It’s useful to be reminded that Scotland contains both, and that democratic politics has to be able to cope with both extremes.

    And sometimes the moonhowlers can be extremely funny in their own way.

    Think of it as the modern, politically correct version of the Victorian era pastime of visiting asylums to throw stones at the inmates.

  318. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen.

    How Scotland’s ancient constitution came about.

    “It is remarkable that, in this Parliament, where we can for the first time ascertain the presence of the Third Estate, we have the first development of what are now considered the fundamental principles of a representative constitution. There was a compact between the king and the three Estates; a claim of right, redress of grievances, a grant of supplies, and a strict limitation of the grant. The three estates acknowledge the great merit of the king, and all that he had undergone for restoring the liberties of all. The grievous burdens of the people, through arbitrary taxes, are pointed out; sustentationem non habuit absque intolerabili onere et gravamine plebis. The king is to impose no other “collectas” and to mitigate his legal exactions of prisae et cariagia. On the other hand, the Estates grant him the tenth penny of all rents, a gift which they declare shall be null if the king defeats its application to the public service by any remissions granted beforehand; and the grant is to cease with the king’s own life.

    The next important change in the constitution of our Parliament arose from pure accident. The frequent meetings of the national council, and their long deliberations, had been felt extremely burdensome, especially by the class of small freeholders, among whom, as yet, no representation was established. Many of these attended with reluctance, and could not continue during the session without much inconvenience. To ease that class, and also to avoid the inconvenience of popular discussion of certain questions, for the consideration of which expressly the national council was summoned, Parliament devised the plan of delegating its power to certain committees of its members. ”

    There’s a number of reasons why the dis-united kingdoms constitution isn’t codified, one is parts of it are incompatible with the Scottish Claim of Right, another reason that its not codified is, that parts of it can be determined in whatever fashion suits the narrative of the day.

    https://www.electricscotland.com/history/middleages/chapter7.htm

  319. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Hey, well at least we have consistency in screwing things up…

    http://robinmcalpine.org/this-hydrogen-deal-is-another-disaster/

  320. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS 5:28

    If true, that’s very bad news.

    The ‘I’ boys have stated they will cease fire when the hostages are released. If the ham boys won’t release them, then I guess it’s a fight to the death of the last ham boy.

    Sources indicate there were around 30k ham boys at the start of the war. I can’t find reliable figures for how many have been killed so far, but it’s obviously far less than that. So the war is yet a long way from being over.

  321. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan 6:13

    More dosh to the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund.

    More reasons for Orkney & Shetland to hook up with Norway and be quids in. Or should that be Kroner in?

  322. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Hey Nu English

    You keep stating nobody would want leccy from Scotland because countries can make leccy cheaper themselves and some Ohm’s Law bollocks, so any chance you could use your intellect and apparent copious amounts of free time you have spare to post on here, to get England to actually do what you preach so you aren’t powering your laptop to post on here using a portion of leccy generated in Scotland and exported to England.
    Scotland currently generating enough for ourselves and still managing to export the same amount to England.

    https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime

    Fruitella be raging too, as England currently generating nearly 40% of its leccy from burning gas, and 4% of it’s leccy from burning coal! (scroll to right to see coal gauge)

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

  323. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – I think I know who you are (or who you might be anyway). We have met and I’m pretty convinced of that. If I’m right, then I suspect a fire has been lit under your arse by now. I’ll explain how it works:

    1. The Scottish Government is informed before the school is built that it is non-compliant and will sink into the mud.

    2. Scottish Building Standards say: “no, you’re wrong – we’ve had this checked and the school will be OK.”

    3. The school’s evidently not OK and the land starts to sink as soon as it is opened.

    4. The Scottish Government is told: “you were warned – this was always going to happen. You’d better fix this urgently”

    5. Scottish Building Standards say: “no, the school will be OK.”

    6. The experts of the ASCE get involved and they say: “this school is a mess – get it fixed straight away.”

    So there you have it. It’s myself plus the experts of the ASCE versus all at the Scottish Government, plus yourself (whoever you are), plus Ruby.

    Who should the public believe. If the public believe me and the ASCE, and they probably will, then a hell of a lot of you will be persona non grata, certainly in Aberdeen.

    Can it even be fixed now, or have you all waited too long? That’s possible. If so, the cost will be what? £30-£40m?

    Would that be a fair synopsis of the current situation? It looks to me as if you have managed to make a right arse of this. You should listen to engineers who know what they are talking about. Don’t listen to ministers and to Ruby.

  324. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main says: at 6:22 pm

    More dosh to the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund.

    Aye, and folk, and even this site’s owner are apparently either so comfortable, or complacent, or brain dead that they still say “there is nothing going on” at this time…
    FFS All it takes for evil to prevail is for good folk to do nothing.
    TBH I am very close to just sacking the whole Scottish Indy thing in. There is so little engagement and discussion on how to improve Scotland’s situation that it is almost pointless to piss away anymore of what’s left of my life on.
    I mentioned earlier that the dodgy and ill thought out ASHP rollout issues are now known to be creating problems at the highest level of Scottish government and still nobody is even interested to pass a single comment on this.

  325. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan @ 18.13

    I sometimes wish you weren’t quite so honest & down to earth, Dan.
    I no sooner start to get a bit encouraged by the thought of pump storage schemes, green hydrogen generation schemes such as the ones being trialled in Renfrew with their own dedicated wind turbines and then I get brought back to the reality of the Green/SNP administration selling our country down the river.
    How different it could all have been.

  326. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Dear Alf , please ignore your stalkers , they are truly worthless individuals.

  327. Ali Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan says: @ 12.45

    “You’re not a particularly regular btl poster so it’s interesting that you turn up and try to reinforce the position that there is little to be be debated, scrutinised or argued over.”

    Yup reinforcing the viewpoint in the topic, second sentence… “nothing is happening in the world of Scottish independence”

    Dan says: 5.05

    “But just wondered what you think of my response to you.”

    Evidently not as much as you wished hence no comment on your post. However “Maybe the posting figures are so high because “actors” are heavily engaged in saturating the site with a great deal of repetitive low level content to put folk off actually discussing more important matters.”

    Which I think is exactly the point I was making… easily confirmed with a little bit of down and dirty data crunching. It was a suggestion to look into the apparent sudden interest in Wings BTL comments.

    “Serious question, why do you even bother occasionally posting btl if you have nothing constructive to add, or develop any discussion beneficial to returning Scotland to self-governing status.”

    Occasionally posting (your betraying a self evident use of Ctr-F and some time scrolling pages)… because I don’t feel the need to befoul the debate with my own dumb questions, I generally wait for someone of a similar level of stupidity to ask the same question for me.

    If I felt able and confident enough I would certainly post more considered content however I’m no expert or genius in anything so the likelihood is unlikely.

    ‘Twas a mere observation that I felt needed airing. Asking why all of a sudden the BTL was overly popular. You gave your answer chiming with my thoughts, snarked about something else (Boilers!!!) and then spat the dummy at not being sufficiently ‘noticed’ apologies again to your bruised ego.

    If its regulars only… how do you become a regular?

  328. Graf Midgehunter
    Ignored
    says:

    Something for the britnats/yoons on WOS.

    Alf Baird just says the same thing but uses more big words which seems to confuse the yoons. 🙂

    https://nitter.net/scotoshi/status/1723686122855747632#m

  329. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan – I’m waiting to be ambushed by a Scotgov bag-carrier. While I’m waiting, I’ll contribute: I live in a rural area and there are all types of heating systems in use around here – coal, biomass, wood-burning, LPG, and oil. One house uses an ASHP. The number-one in my opinion is the Central Boiler wood-burner which I described to you months ago and you said was rubbish. No-one uses electricity and that is because it is so murderously expensive. The historical reason for that is that the cost of electricity was always linked to the cost of gas and for decades that never really caused a problem because gas was relatively cheap. But, the pendulum has swung now and gas is expensive and is being transported and stored all over the world, whereas electricity is generated relatively cheaply on our doorstep. So, remove that linkage, which allows the price of electricity to drop and that brings electric heating back into the affordable range for everyone again. The wild land and the wild seas are predominantly in Scotland and so Scotland will go-on supplying an ever increasing proportion of the UK’s renewable electricity, but a way of getting some of that into public ownership is where the political effort needs to happen.

  330. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Sven

    I’m just plainly stating things as I see them. Maybe I come across the way I do with few airs and graces because I have an engineering background based on practical reality, and I don’t converse or engage in some political self-preservation evasiveness that allows the words I state to be gotten out of should it be politically expedient for me.

    Example. If it comes to be that the recent partially taxpayer funded rollout of ASHPs and solar PV turns out to have been seriously flawed due to the likes of dodgy property eligibility thermal efficiency assessments, no consideration to relevant planning constraints, excessive noise emissions etc.
    Then how do you begin to address the issues that creates, as substantial budgets and amounts of funding has already been made available and allocated, grants distributed, personal loans set up and partial loan re-payments already made, covering the cost of the equipment and installations, only to then have to go back on all of this because some folk were mislead and sold a pup, and it all needs ripped out and rectification work done to reinstate what was there originally.
    It’s an absolute auditing nightmare. A situation borne out of absolutely terrible and misguided policy formation, presumably involving civil servants and elected politicians. Will there be any accountability?

  331. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan,
    What did you think of the cavity wall insulation scheme?
    Have you heard of any structural problems resultant to filling a space, that was designed to be empty, with foam?

  332. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Ali Clark 7:14

    There’s not too much debate TBH. There is a hell of a lot of hysterical rammying, enlivened by “cant” and “winker” calling.

    Don’t worry about being no expert or genius. It’s not needed to vote and determine Scotland’s destiny, so why would it be needed here? Ever voted SNP 1 & 2 for HR? You’re gonna fit right in.

    You become a regular by posting regularly. Many of the existing regulars will be hostile if you show any ability to think for yourself, but don’t let that put you off. The results of their 10 year experiment with groupthink is all around, polluting and destroying Scotland, from our FM pretendy fraud HY, on down.

    Here’s hoping you know some new and amusing insults to keep things interesting!

  333. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm 8:02

    “filling a space, that was designed to be empty, with foam”

    Ye were never meant tae squirt it in yer ears, ye muppet!

  334. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I dislike Israel more every day they kill palestians.

    From the the river to the sea.

  335. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Cheers for responding Ali.

    I didn’t used to post much either. But after having had some conversations with Wingers I met at various events and marches. (sadly through the passage of time several have past on over the years). They all basically said that I needed to step up my game and find the confidence to start posting, because there is little point just lurking and not being in the fray, as nobody really gains from not having the thoughts and insight from a wider more diverse group of folk.

    Using Ctrl F is just a useful tool and way to search and find information that I haven’t bookmarked, it’s hardly some kind of nefarious tactic. Engineers require reference manuals and specifications to understand the equipment they are working on, as well as the specific tools to carry out that work, so we can’t really dis a mechanic for using a manual or spanner either, it’s just the the most efficient way to grasp the relevant information tools required to complete a task.

    No ego bruising for me. Been taking flak for years now and developed a tough enough skin for taking snidey digs. Apologies if you felt my post was somehow taking a dig at you though, written wrd and all that… But I was and am genuinely curious as to why you posted what you did. We all have some knowledge that others could benefit from.
    There is no requirement or rules to becoming a regular, but it would be grand to have more folk posting more often and by that act I suppose they would become a regular.

    @ Johnlm

    I’ve over posted tonight already… But in short there will be plenty about pros and cons of cavity wall insulation if you search online. But again, it will come down to proper unbiased surveying and assessment of each individual property because they are generally all built differently.

  336. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan @ 19.36.

    Depressingly enough, I believe, based on past performance, most except the deluded or terminally silly will be well aware that the whole thing will be such a bourach that any future, honest and halfway competent administration will most likely just draw a line under it and start again.
    Whilst we have proven serial incompetents messrs Harvie & Slater allowed free rein to indulge in harebrained schemes, for which no one voted, this series of debacles will continue.
    And don’t even start me on the systemic corruption of our childrens’ understanding of basic biology and anatomy.
    So, please do just continue popping in to give a bit more background info as you have time and inclination. Every layperson (such as myself) who gets that wee bit more comprehensible info is one more who can pass those views onto our own friends & family.
    And, that’s one of the ways we get more and more knowledgeable folk paying attention.

  337. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Xaracen, at 5:2pm,

    as all that you state is nonsense, and injusticiable either in Edinburgh or the Supreme Court in London, and it can be totally ignored as a legal opinion.

    You ain’t anything more than a coulda shoulda woulda waste of time on anything to do with legal matters. Nobody at all with any influence takes your assertions and protestations seriously.

  338. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Israel will be cut off from the rest of the World if there was any justice. Stop all trade to Israel. Cut them off. The foreskins of the tiny cocked IDF. Killers.

  339. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    The zionist project is a disgrace. Good to see the tide is turning. You don’t see any Isreali flags. Only Palestinian ones. Everywhere.

    Even Macron is calling for a ceasefire now.

    It’s over for the zionists.

  340. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Hilary Clinton must be absolutely devastated at the World’s unified condemnation of Israel.

    The zionists and the global Jewish world order has lost its control.

  341. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m going to cancel virgin media tomorrow and get IPTV.

    I won’t be paying zionist supporting media any longer.

    Not another penny to the zionist loving news agencies.

  342. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “An independent commissioner for countering extremism should be taking issue with Suella Braverman’s ‘dangerous and divisive’ rhetoric, rather than echoing it”

    Simcox appears to be ignoring Braverman’s inflammatory and divisive language.

    “Simcox should not be regarded as a neutral arbiter of extremism – as might be expected in such a role – but rather as a partisan figure within the landscape over which he has been appointed to cast scrutiny.”

    But then again Simcox’s previous positions speaks volumes on his silence in his current one.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uk-robin-simcox-government-found-cheerleader-own-brand-extremism

    https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/Centre_for_the_Response_to_Radicalisation_and_Terrorism

  343. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @David Hannah 8:23

    Haha, good one. Fancy your chances do you?

    I reckon you’d last 30 seconds, because they’d spend that long trying to talk you out of something you were going to regret.

  344. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan, at 6:30pm,

    you might want to look at the future buildout plans for offshore wind. Scotland is currently ahead, but it won’t be in 5 years, and (at forecast progress) will have around 1/5th of the installed capacity as England does in 2035.

    That’s plans, not yet reality. But indicative. More to the point, offshore England projects are so far 91% funded. Scottish projects around 37% funded. Why? there’s an inverse financial correlation: the more English projects are funded, the less Scottish ones are, because Scotland can already nearly generate all of its own needs in the right conditions, and there’s a forecast declining export market from Scotland as England, Denmark, Holland and Germany ramp up.

  345. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    How a little know aide plotted Sir Kid Starver’s (Keir Starmer) rise to the top of the Labour party, using secret undeclared donors cash, whilst Jeremy Corbyn was its leader.

    The Sunday Times.

    https://archive.ph/3DTUO

  346. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67397963

    Well John. I do fancy my chances. As if we’re meant to believe an Islamic translated Mein Kampf book was found a child’s bedroom. On Laura Kussenberg. From the Israeli presidents mouth.

    What a joke the BBC are. The media are complicit in all this.

    America is going nuts. All the university campuses are protesting. They are trying to frame it as the woke left looking for victimhood.

    And yet. We know there blowing up hospitals. They are discrediting themselves each and every day.

    I for one. Am cancelling vigin media. I’ve had enough of their extortionate bills and I won’t be paying the TV licence either.

    Time to boycott Israel. The Isreali lobby is rattled. By extention. Nato will be rattled. The military complex by enxtension. Increasingly rattled. Better for civilisation that their power is reined in.

    Armistice day. The war to end all wars. And yet there’s been a war every two years since 1947 with the Americans involved in just about every one of them.

    Joe Biden. He wants to run again. Can you believe it

  347. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I saw Planet of Apes was on yesterday afternoon. I think it was chosen deliberately by the BBC with it being this weekend. The 1968 version. In the film the apes are of course the oppressors. But they didn’t kill of human civilisation as we round out at the end. We did. Damn us all to hell if we don’t realise that were the same blood. Our blood is red. We are one. All connected.

    How can Isreal do that to their next door neighbours? How can they live with themselves? Why don’t they talk? And common ground.

  348. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Dan

    ” TBH I am very close to just sacking the whole Scottish Indy thing in. There is so little engagement and discussion on how to improve Scotland’s situation that it is almost pointless to piss away anymore of what’s left of my life on. ”

    I know how you feel , D : I find similar thoughts arising more frequently myself .

    Like you ( I assume ) , this reflects no disenchantment with the idea of Independence – the sine qua non for any chance of significant improvement in the quality of life in Scotland ; but some with the current stasis of our aspiration .

    As for engagement here BTL , I still think too much time is wasted interacting with irritating bores whose sole contribution is 50 shades of Better Together shite ; eg how many times has the blustering ignorance of twats like Who Gives A Fuck Abroad been exposed ? yet they just endlessly repeat the same dumb fuckery : AND PEOPLE KEEP TAKING THE BAIT .

    No , we don’t want an echo chamber ( the stock response from the joyless division when told to get tae ) ; neither do we want a tower of Yoon babble , continuous reiterations of * arguments * against Independence that were blown out of the water years ago : at least I don’t want that .

    Any arguments/debates here should be over the HOW of getting our country back – fuck all about the IF we should/can get it back .

    There’s also seems to me there is very little engagement amongst the genuine ( ie non-SNP affiliated ) bloggers themselves . They all have their separate domains – WOS , BB , YFS , RMcA , Grouse Beater , PAB , Craig M , never comment on each other posts ( Craig & Peter do ,occasionally , but rarely more than a single comment ) , neither do they ever seem to even reference other simpatico blogs . Which kinda gives the sense of a fragmentary shadow opposition , all saying good , intelligent , constructive things , but lacking any cohesive energy or focus . Arrows lacking a bow .

    Likewise with the people in ALBA and ISP – how come we never see any of them commenting here ( WOS too feral maybe . lol ) or on any other blogs ?

    If WOS is still the ” most-read Scottish Politics digest ” , surely it would be the best place for politicians to engage with their supporters , testing their ideas , proposing strategies , keeping people informed about their thinking/intentions ?

    You hear people complain about the lack of alternative ( to Nu SNP ) political voices in The National , yet the combined readership of all the blogs referred to above ( if not WOS’s alone ? ) massively exceeds that rag’s – dwindling – fanclub ; so , why are none of our * good * politicos availing themselves of these platforms ?

    As for general , public engagement , fck , where to start ?

    After decades of atomising , ” no such thing as Society ” Capitalist/Materialist Governments , elevating SELF-interest to the supreme * value * , is it any wonder people can rarely be roused to protest/organise about anything ? Least of all when their ” daen awright ” .

    The above degrading of societal intercourse has been calamitously exacerbated by the rise and now global saturation of isolating , narcissism-inducing , reality-warping Soc Med platforms like Facebook ,Instagram , Tik Tok etc – not to mention the similar elevation to global industry status of Porn , with all the coarsening of sex/intimacy and human relations generally entailed therein .

    This mindless consumerist hedonism has served to destroy previously valued conceptions of solidarity ..eg .. based on shared Working Class social/familial conditions , location , work & leisure activities . And we’ve seen how frowned-upon & considered infra dig notions of solidarity-by-shared-National Identity has become . Most egregiously by the same * actors * who only attained their positions via their association with the Nationalist Movement .

    Maybe there’s some truth in the cliche about people getting the politicians/political culture they deserve ? If so , fuck knows what heinous crime we must have committed to end-up with the political goon-show we have now

  349. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah

    “I’ve had enough of their extortionate bills”

    I believe that line of your post. Guid Scots thrift will oot.

    The rest? Ah hae ma doots.

    Most importantly, although I can find lots of sources describing intense fighting around hospitals, I can’t find any links to hospitals being blown up. Can you post one on here? Thanks.

  350. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah,

    NATO isn’t rattled at all: if anything, it’s getting stronger (+Finland, soon to be +Sweden, and within 10 years + another 7 countries. It’s becoming more, not less consulted diplomatically above the Tropic of Cancer, its self-declared southern boundary. The NATO budget has grown by 27% since the little poisoning dwarf took a catastrophically terminal decision in February 2022.

  351. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Some social media reports saying that Berlin has banned the chants Stop the Genocide and from the River to the Sea in Pro-Palestinian demos.

    Meanwhile the EU still refuses to call for a ceasefire on Gaza, how can the EU parliament ever lecture anybody or organisation or government again on Human Right after this massive failure.

    “The #EU is boasting about buying less Russian Gas but we’ve just done a Gas deal with the Apartheid Regime in #Israel who’ve slaughtered over 4,000 #Palestinian Children in one month – We’re happily trading with the most brutal Regime on the Planet”

    says MEP Mick Wallace.

    https://nitter.net/wallacemick

  352. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    How the European and US arms industries fund and supply Israel with state of the art weapons to use on Gaza. I’m pretty sure there must be plenty of kickbacks that fill the pockets of EU politicians for their cooperation.

    “For decades, EU member states have provided military wares to Israel’s occupation forces, with almost 30 percent of their major conventional weaponry originating in Germany (23.9 percent) and Italy (5.9 percent).

    The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) details the delivery of anti-ship/anti-submarine weapons, surface to air missiles, naval guns and combat aircraft, while the European Network Against the Arms Trade reveals that EU arms exports to Israel from 2011-2020 were worth €4.1bn.

    Since 7 October, the Dutch government has approved the delivery of components for F-35 fighter jets, which are currently being used to pummel Gaza to pieces. Although lawyers at the foreign ministry advised against these transfers citing serious violations of the laws of war, the Dutch government chose to prioritise relations with Israel and the US, over Palestinian lives and upholding the rule of law.

    Similarly, of the €303m in arms exports approved by Germany this year, 85 percent of these licences were given the green light in the wake of the 7 October attack when the economy ministry ordered that Israel be “given priority”.

    Across the Atlantic, US members of congress were put on notice for potential “criminal and civil liability for aiding and abetting genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity” in advance of an emergency military aid package to Israel worth $14.5bn. They went ahead and approved it anyway.

    Annually, the US provides Israel with military assistance worth over $3.8bn [€3.6bn] and since October it has deployed an aircraft carrier, fighter jets, a nuclear powered submarine capable of carrying cruise missiles, three ballistic missile defence ships, and US drones.

    Considering how embedded Europe’s arms industry is with the US war machine, it is reasonable to assume that much of this equipment contains European arms components.”

    https://euobserver.com/opinion/157676

  353. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Unconfirmed reports that US soldiers are in Gaza fighting shoulder to shoulder with the IDF.

    https://nitter.net/QudsNen/status/1723804486269849639#m

  354. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – I’m tired of waiting. I’m going to watch the news and then go to bed.

    I understand there are 3No ministers currently involved in this fandango, all are women and it is obvious that neither have a bloody clue what they are talking about. 2No male ministers were previously involved, both have resigned and both were equally clueless.

    The danger is that the public reaction to this will be entirely negative. Dishonest cover-ups usually are.

    My opinion was written-down and the experts wrote their opinions down too. All opinions are expert opinions and are independent of one another.

    Can I suggest that tomorrow you have a meeting with Scottish Building Standards and Scottish Futures Trust and give this your best shot. No-one wants you to go-down without a fight and I know you won’t do that. So far though, it has to be said that you lot and your ministers are taking a hell of a beating.

    If you fail – it will be a body-blow to all of Scottish engineering and whether we can say it is in safe hands or not.

  355. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS,

    all that you are copy pasting about Israel and the principaled support it is being offered by other nations, organisations and industry is indeed very good news. Let’s hope to see more of it, so that evil doesn’t prevail.

  356. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan

    I value your time & posts about Scotland potential. I don’t comment cause I know absolutely nothing regards heating systems & engineering. I just know we’ve ruined our landscape to generate electricity for our asset stripping neighbours.

    I agree with others too regards the Better Together shite drowning out debate. Reminds me of a Yes group on Facebook that had over 15 K members. It was completely trashed by the *joyless miserable bastards crew who sucked the will to live out of everyone by asking the same banal questions over & over & over Zzzz

    I also remember they complained in parliament (when trying to change the question’ the NO side was ‘a negative campaign’ I’ll say! Lol! Has anyone ever met a *happy* no voter?
    No, me neither.

    That’s all they have = negatively because there’s fck all good about the Union or they’d bang their drums selling it to us with a long list of all the benefits. There is none.

    They need to stop stalking Alf too & belittling his qualifications. It’s a sign they have no argument.

    I know Stu doesn’t police the site but it will go the same way as the Yes forum if it continues. They’ve absolutely no interest in Indy. They just want to disrupt. They’re the tossers you avoid at parties at all costs.

    Johnlm

    I’m no structural engineer by any means but I’d think it would hold the damp. I had an internal wall that was scabby & it was caused by a build up of dirt blowing up like a snowdrift from the airbricks & trapping the rubble that had built up over 100 yrs. I’d imagine some cavity wall insulation would have the same problems. Just my opinion tho cause feck knows how you’d remove it later if it caused this problem.

  357. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Some very innarestin stuff on Al Jazeera.

    Datelined 10th November, there’s an update on the hospitals. Intense fighting around them – none blown up.

    They outline the provisions of Article 13 of the 1977 Additional Protocols to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. That states that medical units lose their special protection if “used to commit, outside their humanitarian function, acts harmful to the enemy”.

    The article “Military Analysis: Gaza’s Tunnels” repeats the claim of 500 km of these, and points out, that in the quest to find and destroy them, Israel has likely found no more than 50% of the entrances/exits and probably cleared only a tiny fraction. So this war still has months to run.

    I think rational and neutral people should be calling for a cease fire from both sides and a release of the hostages, probably negotiated by a mutually trusted third party. That’s the quickest route to an end to the innocent casualties.

    But, bottom line, this war is between two political/religious groups sworn to annihilation of each other. Peace will come when both sides have fought to a standstill and realised they are both going to have to compromise.

  358. Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I absolutely agree with Geri @11.10
    I think it’s the intention of these unionist posters to ruin the site .

  359. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    https://bruntwood.co.uk/our-locations/glasgow/met-tower/

    Finally something I approve of by Glasgow City Council. With a bit of invention at last.

    The old college building – which was expected to be turned into the met tower hotel – is going to become a tech hub after bruntwood tech won the bid to transform the old tower.

    I approve. We need more of this in Glasgow. Not more hotels.

  360. Breastplate
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main @ 8:11pm

    “The results of their 10 year experiment with groupthink is all around, polluting and destroying Scotland,..”

    The belief that you have original thoughts regarding self determination is nonsense, here’s your 250 years old argument as a reminder,

    “Where the money is to come from which will defray this enormous annual expense of three millions sterling, and all those other debts, I know not; unless the author of Common Sense, or some other ingenious projector, can discover the Philosopher’s Stone, by which iron and other base metals may be transmuted into gold. Certain I am that our commerce and agriculture, the two principal sources of our wealth, will not support such an expense. The whole of our exports from the Thirteen United Colonies, in the year 1769, amounted only to £2,887,898 sterling; which is not so much, by near half a million, as our annual expense would be were we independent of Great Britain. Those exports; with no inconsiderable part of the profits arising from them, it is well known, centered finally in Britain to pay the merchants and manufacturers there for goods we had imported thence—and yet left us still in debt! What then must our situation be, or what the state of our trade, when oppressed with such a burden of annual expense! When every article of commerce, every necessary of life, together with our lands, must be heavily taxed to defray that expense!”
    —Charles Inglis, 1776, Pennsylvania

    John Main, here’s another for you,

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

    And another,

    “O would, or I had seen the day That treason thus could sell us, My auld gray head had lien in clay, Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace! But pith and power, till my last hour, I’ll mak’ this declaration; We’re bought and sold for English gold – Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.”
    Rabbie Burns

    “That’s you that is, that’s you and you can’t take it back.”
    Newman and Baddiel

  361. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    RoS 10:02

    500 km of tunnels and the preferred weapon for both sides will be knives.

    I wouldn’t get too excited about state of the art weapons. They’re no use down there.

  362. Derek
    Ignored
    says:

    Boycott. Divest. Sanction.

  363. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri
    Yes. I recall the rush to get every house surveyed and approved for cavity insulation because there was Government money being thrown at it.
    My Uncles house was approved.
    After they started they found out his house didn’t have a cavity walls and the stuff was going into the founds
    Cowboys.

  364. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan

    Re Robin McAlpine link. FFS!
    Its deliberate sabotage.
    No one can be that fcking stupid. Especially after the Scotwind fiasco.

    This should be put on hold immediately.

  365. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Anne 11:32
    BP 11:34

    People very like many posters on here have trashed Scotland and Scotland’s reputation over the past 10 years.

    They’ve trashed Indy too.

    The next 10 years have to be different.

    Anyhoo, as I won’t tire of pointing out, if you think your way is setting the heather alight, just keep right on with the same wilting ideas and policies. Do you truly believe that doing things your way, Indy is just around the corner?

    Seriously?

  366. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Anne, at 11:32 pm,

    I believe that it is the unintended intention of nationalists to ruin Scotland. Unintended, because although they hold their cause dear, they aren’t very intelligent and can’t think through the long term consequences of their short term actions.

  367. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnlm

    Aye. My house was too old for it. I had the loft insulation about 10 yrs ago & they didn’t even bother laying it properly. They just threw it on lol
    When I opened the hatch to put some things up there it was a guessing game to where the beams were..

    I had another call last week saying it was obsolete now & did I want another survey. A lot of scams too which doesn’t help.

  368. Willie
    Ignored
    says:

    Its a grim fact but unless and or until an American city gets flattened that the US will continue to support the flattening of other cities around the world.

    As the world’s once most powerful economic and military super power, and indeed isolated from the theatres of war, the US could involve without being involved.

    But ghe economic and military prowess has failed as tge world moves to multi polarity. Moreover, the US is not now immune from home military engagement like it once was.

    Put in perspective the US or the UK citizens could now pay with their citizens. Israeli defence minister Yuav Gallant may craw that they can do to the citizens of Beurut what they have done to Gaza under US protection.

    But the world has changed. The US has not prevaled in Ukraine and it will not prevail in the middle east. The wrong horse has been backed and the world will not support or forget the slaughter in Gaza. No good comes of violence like this or in fact viokence at all.

    Britain, a faded power lost big to the IRAon its door step. Thirty years of mayhem when it could have been sorted politically and the violence put away.

    No good, no good at all will come from this Israel Palestine mess save that the US has now shown itself to the world as to what it has become. Perchance this may be the US’s fall of Singapore.

  369. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri,

    next time, try to supervise a bit better, or at least to spot what they are doing and to get photos. Or you will undoubtedly be scammed again. There’s no law in heaven that says that you have to be a victim. Just get your head around the issue.

  370. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 1:14 am

    “There’s no law in heaven that says that you have to be a victim.”

    Good point. Since independence, Ireland has managed to avoid being dragged into around 100 conflicts around the world. Scots have not been so lucky.

    With colonialism, ‘a people’ are victims, for “they have no say in matters of war and peace” (Memmi), or much else; “a colonized people are out of the game”.

  371. Anthem
    Ignored
    says:

    Has anyone noticed the price of petrol recently? We are being screwed again, yet not a whimper from anyone.

  372. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – We met on 17/8/16, didn’t we. Anyway, today’s your big day and so give it your best shot. At my last count, there was something like 85No of you trying to get this to work but it all gets narrowed right down in the end to a few and it sounds like you have been selected to be one of them.

    Incidentally, all the information I send to Holyrood is genuine. Not like the bogus stuff they’ve sent to me over the years. To give you an idea of how far off the pace you are, I sent a worked example to your colleagues of how an overseas government deals with a very similar situation to this one. This is a bigger government than the Scottish, or even UK Government.

    Their ministers turn it around in one day. How many years have our ministers had? It’s into double figures now, isn’t it? I sent signed and stamped letters from ministers, civil-service and police, dated photographs, everything was official. This is how serious governments behave. I was involved in that investigation and I can tell you that the difference in honesty between them and you lot is alarming.

    Best of luck, Stuart.

  373. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird,

    You should keep quiet about colonialism. You don’t know anything about it.

  374. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Alf Baird 6:57

    Good point.

    Then again, there was one rather nasty conflict they had right on their doorstep. Took the Yanks to step in and sort that one out, and it still continues to simmer just beneath the surface.

    Scots have been lucky to avoid that.

    Do you think the Irish are “back in the game” then? Cos plenty of commentators I have read, responding to the unbelievable changes in Ireland over the past 20 years, think they are little more than helpless pawns at the mercy of globalisation, multinational corporations and the EU.

    On the plus side, they are being shown lots of money.

    Do you think it possible that it’s the money that really counts?

  375. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 8:18 am

    “You should keep quiet about colonialism.”

    Yes boss.

    Gotta maintain the ‘colonial hoax’.

    Canna lat the hamespun fowk ken thay’re doun-hauden.

  376. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – one final point for today: It would be best to keep this matter off the pages of Wings over Scotland from now-on? It has very limited appeal and the overseas government I referred to earlier just got on with it and got things done directly. To do that though, you need to contact me. Do that pretty soon.

    I know that you are a great fan of Wings and so am I, but this subject used to drive poor Ruby insane and I’m sure there will be many others who are tired of it? That said, there are many in Aberdeen who will be expecting you, the ministers, Scottish Building Standards and Scottish Futures Trust to just get off your arse and get this fixed?

    I’ll leave that with you.

  377. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, Bwana !

  378. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian 8:47am
    Captain look on they bright side at least he doesn’t call you a donkey. I can claim I resisted a long line of carrots from the SNP because I saw them for what they were. In fact a number of carrots that would compete with a Lidl Christmas advert. I will be calling for a Public Inquiry if this goes your way. I cannot abide cover ups. And Scotland has endured so many of late.

  379. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad said;

    “Xaracen, all that you state is nonsense, and injusticiable either in Edinburgh or the Supreme Court in London, and it can be totally ignored as a legal opinion.

    You ain’t anything more than a coulda shoulda woulda waste of time on anything to do with legal matters. Nobody at all with any influence takes your assertions and protestations seriously.”

    Cheap and shoddy, ASA, cheap and shoddy!

    I have never claimed it to be a legal opinion. It is only my own opinion, but it has more truth in it than any of yours. I have read the text of the Treaty and its associated Acts, and I know what sovereignty means, and I know where its authority lies, and I know what the fundamental constitutional truth of the Union is, and I know what the fundamental lie of the Union is, and the harm that lie has done and is doing.

    The difference between us is that I resent the unlawful imposition of that lie, and I want something done about it, while you are far too smugly comfortable with it.

    As for “Nobody at all with any influence takes your assertions and protestations seriously.”, perhaps, but it doesn’t mean they, or you, would be right.

    A Real and Ancient Constitution

  380. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Cruella de Vile Braverman sacked as UKGov home secretary…

    That’s one helluva lifestyle choice eh? LOL!

  381. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    George – I’ve already asked for a Public Inquiry. When I met Stuart Mctavish on 17/8/16, I minuted the meeting and sent the minutes to Police Scotland. I had another meeting with Scottish Building Standards on 23/5/19 and I minuted that too. There’s a crime called “Reckless Certification”. They’ve been given a lesson in engineering by the ASCE and in honest government by a government I won’t name (but you may be able to guess who they are). Police Scotland and the bloggers have done well though. That’s a strange combination of helpers, isn’t it. But, it’s whatever works in the end.

  382. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Captain Yossarian says:
    13 November, 2023 at 8:47 am

    stuart mctavish – one final point for today: It would be best to keep this matter off the pages of Wings over Scotland from now-on?

    Do you mean we won’t hear the ending of ‘the sinking school’ saga?

  383. Breastplate
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main,

    Again you fail to understand that you are on the wrong side of the quotes I sent you last night regarding the financial aspect of self determination.

    Those quotes are about avarice, gullibility, immorality, treachery and theft, it is absolutely no surprise that showcasing dishonesty, dishonour, unaccountability and cowardice regarding the fate of my country is met with contempt by many people here.
    This includes your likeminded companions.

    If you lack the wit, will or bravery to make decisions then simply stand aside as Samuel Adams suggested 250 years ago.
    This also includes your likeminded companions.

  384. Margaret Eleftheriou
    Ignored
    says:

    Anne @ 11.32pm
    I absolutely agree with you. I comment rarely (I have a life and work to do). I commend the solid efforts of those who refute the ignorant nonsense peddled incessantly,not on a day to day basis, but sometimes minute by minute. I don’t waste my time by reading the continual flow of ignorance and ridiculous misinformation. But many thanks to those who do attempt to initiate a genuine debate in the hope of keeping the btl part of the site functional.

  385. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/at-the-seven-eleven/comment-page-2/#comment-2803094

    Captain Yossarian says:
    13 November, 2023 at 9:54 am

    Police Scotland and the bloggers have done well though. That’s a strange combination of helpers, isn’t it. But, it’s whatever works in the end.

    Was Stuart aware that he was helping in a police inquiry?

    Which other blogs helped?

    Do these blogs that helped risk being charged with contempt of court?

  386. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    Yossa @10:23

    Lol – in which case apologies for the deja vu and ditto in advance for the state I’ll be in at the next one

    Hopefully, despite any positive implications of our capital works contracts having rejected the UKs global professional bodies (as arbiter of last resort) in favour of those from America, your cunning plan to have the general public mediate future smart contracts will gain no traction – since even (especially) highly regulated environments like the nuclear industry are shambolic enough already without needing to incorporate change management from 100 different bosses to build an unsinkable sand pit in granite city.

    That said, doubtless you did the right thing for yourself by going to your MSP/ the MSP for the school when your workmates turned a blind eye – but if they passed the question to the client/ project manager/ relevant authroity on this side of the pond, and the answer came back that your interest was conflicted (or words to that effect), then surely your dispute is with those experts only – rather than any of the elected representatives who appear to have handled it ALL in good faith (despite any prejudice your perceived victimhood or communication skills may, unintentionally, have provoked).

  387. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @BP

    Again you fail to understand that I am on the right side of the (probable) majority of apolitical, largely disinterested Scots, Sovereign and New, who will be enthusiastically supportive of policies and changes that will put a bit more cash in their pockets.

    And apathetically or even actively hostile to anything that they suspect will only make things worse for them.

    I get it, BP, I lack the ideological purity that you and your like minded supporters think is key to Indy, which empowers you to hurl your daft accusations of treason around.

    As I said last night, the evidence that your approach is gaining traction is missing. But by all means, you keep at it with my blessing.

    Remember, I’m just one vote. You still need hundreds of thousands. Make a good economic case for Indy and if I’m right, you will get your hundreds of thousands, plus mine.

    Simples.

  388. Molesworth
    Ignored
    says:

    The memory of so many brave Scottish soldiers defiled by Celtic supporters. Is this what Scotland has become?

  389. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mactavish – I would much rather not carry-out this dialogue via Wings over Scotland but as it is your wish to do so, I shall respond:

    The UK engineering institution is the ICE. When asked to adjudicate, they responded that Visual Inspection Reports are acceptable. According to the last Public Inquiry on this subject, the Cole Inquiry of 2017, Visual Inspection

  390. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main @ 8:23 am

    “Do you think it possible that it’s the money that really counts?”

    Scotland’s challenge is first getting control over its own resources, same as any plundered colony.

    Decolonization is about that as well as ensuring the freedom of a people to do with their resources and talents as they wish, not as any illegal usurper decides.

  391. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Xaracen 9.47: thanks for all your erudite contributions on the Union and sovereignty and your great patience in refuting the nonsense spouted by some of the Yoons on here.

    I have always found the works of P.H. Scott to be very informative on 1707, etc.

    Mair pooer tae yer elbuck, as we still sometimes say in Auld Cadzow 🙂 .

  392. MaryB
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan and others
    You seem like sensible level headed engineers, and I read your comments about heating with interest. Scotland is a cold country and home heating is a crippling expense for many people.
    I’ve heard a lot from Lesley Riddoch, Robin McAlpine and others about district heating schemes. Denmark, for one, does this and I believe there are many other countries too. Of course, the manufacturers of gas CH boilers wouldn’t like it. But I’d appreciate your considered opinion on this.

  393. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    If you want a laugh (well a cry should be the real emotion) then go to The Scottish EPC register which you can search by postcode and download a property’s energy rating assessment.
    There’s some absolute belters of results in there, tell me how an auld stone built 250 year old hoose with single glazing, no underfloor and very limited wall and roof insulation, and a single skin brick extension miraculously manages to have an A Rating!
    A state of the art modern new build using triple glazing and about a foot of insulation in underfloor, walls, and roofs might just obtain that rating.
    No siree, there’s clearly no corruption and doctoring of survey results going on to artificially improve a property’s EPC rating for selling or meeting grant access criteria.
    The thing is the EPC certificate actually lists the assessor that carried out the rating…

  394. Cherrybank
    Ignored
    says:

    Every Little Helps When I travel about the West of Scotland I take the opportunity to pick up multiple copies of the Metro on bus journeys or passing through railway stations.On a busy day I might put 30 copies of the Metro in my blue bin for recycling I look forward to Associated Newspapers/Daily Mail announcing ‘Due to Nationalist hostility it is no longer financially viable to distribute the Metro in Scotland.’

  395. Johnlm
    Ignored
    says:

    I imagine that, when the time is right, the EPC system will be overhauled to send many properties into category D and below, and the rules tightened to make mortgaging and insuring of these properties impossible.

    The Banks and other financial institutions will then pick up these properties for a song, and rent them out to previous owners.

    https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media/press-releases/2021/lloyds-banking-group/lloyds-banking-group-moves-into-the-private-rental-sector-with-l.html

    “You will own nothing and be happy” – WEF

  396. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    MaryB – I’ve heard a lot from Lesley Riddoch, Robin McAlpine and others about district heating schemes

    I’ve heard a lot about this stuff from people who don’t know what they’re talking about too. I don’t think either Riddoch or McAlpine know what end of a spanner to use. People who talk for a living rarely have a clue about the world of physical facts.

    Gas and oil boilers work. They are highly efficient, easy to install and repair and economical to run.

    Heat pumps don’t work. They are inefficient, complex and expensive to install, and very expensive to run.

    District heating will never work in this country, because we’re part of an arseclownocracy that can’t even build a couple of ferries. We don’t have money lying around to build brand new heating systems across the country. District heating is the kind of thing we might have been able to pull off in the 1970’s, they can’t deliver a rail line now.

    You will be poor, and you will be cold.

    That is what Net Zero means. That’s what it has always meant. That is its purpose.

  397. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mactavish – I would rather not carry-out this dialogue via Wings over Scotland. It is not the correct forum for governmental business but as it is your wish to continue, I shall respond:

    1. The UK engineering institution is the ICE. When asked to adjudicate, they responded that Visual Inspection Reports are acceptable. According to the last Public Inquiry on this subject, the Cole Inquiry of 2017, Visual Inspection Reports are not to be relied upon. The ICE took part in that Public Inquiry and yet now they are saying that they are acceptable? I’m not a member of the ICE and you are and so can you explain this volte-face? Their contribution has previously been described, not by me, as “very disappointing”. If engineering in this country is in your hands and the hands of the ICE, then that ought not to be a concern should it?

    2. The largest engineering institution in the world is the ASCE and they are relatively fearless. They don’t care for political pressure and they speak and adjudicate worldwide on engineering matters. I therefore asked for their opinion and I was overwhelmed by the response. It was one of the biggest cases of 2017 and every single engineer said that there is a major problem at this school and that it had better be checked by a competent expert engineer. You provided another 3No Visual Inspection Reports instead.

    3. The “conflicted position” which you refer to is not conflicted. I was terminated in 2014 for being a poor Project Manager and I have spent the past nine and a half years proving that I am actually a pretty good Project Manager and if you had listened to me in 2016, insurance would have paid to fix or replace the school. Now the Scottish Government will have to pay. Folk might ask why you are still in a job and I am not? Would that be a good question?

    4. The Education Scotland Act places responsibility for the safety (or lack thereof) of the school with ministers. It doesn’t lie with the Council, it lies exclusively with ministers. Also, and thanks to you, responsibility for the quality of the design and construction lies with the Scottish Government, not with the contractor. Hence, my surprise that you are still in a job. Most governments in the world would have dispensed with your services years ago.

    5. What you need to settle this, and I have been asking for this and Police Scotland have been asking for this too, I assume that our MSP are currently nagging you for this, is an as-built design check by the contracted engineering designer. I have been asking for this since 2014. Is there a problem?

    6. If I am correct, then an investigation into “Reckless Certification” will follow. That will involve Scottish Building Standards, but may also involve Scottish Futures Trust and even Scottish ministers. There was a letter from a minister dated 20/12/17, which was issued just a few weeks after the ASCE data was issued to him. You may wish to take a look at that letter? He took a quick look at the ASCE data and dismissed it and that was a remarkably stupid thing to do.

    7. If I am right, should we be calling for a Public Inquiry?

    Anyway, I remember you and you are a superlative bull-shitter. Can I suggest you contact your contracted geotechnical expert by telephone or Email today. It’s really that simple. That takes the Scottish Government nine and a half years? The ASCE and one of the biggest firms in world engineering are involved and they have no time for this.

    Forgive me, but most folk will see this as a cover-up and a really putrid example of public sector malfeasance.

    The ASCE have taught all of you a lesson in honesty and accountability, haven’t they.

  398. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Mary B

    Fuzzy headed theoretical chatter on t’internet about installing community / district heat projects may sound like a great initiative, but when it meets the hard slap in the coupon of the actual practical realities of attempting to implement such projects then it quickly loses viability.

    Having gone through years of due process involved in installing a medium sized mains water supply to serve an area of a village so we could get properties off the compromised private supply which regularly failed to meet safe chemical and bacterial levels and provide the volume of water modern lives require. I can tell you that it was an absolute nightmare trying to get all the different property owner’s agreements to commit to the project, and also adhere to all the necessary legal aspects of installing new infrastructure across land and property owned by many different people and organisations.
    You surely saw the issues involved in implementing the tram lines in Edinburgh. All the complex lattice of under gound services of water, sewer, leccy, phone, fibre optic, gas all needing to be carefully uncovered and crossed. There’d be a massive amount of digging up roads, pavements and gardens trying to install another set of insulated dual flow and return pipe networks to every property.

    But the thing is, we already have a very green community / district heat system and associated infrastructure in place. It’s just that the system is big and Scotland wide, and it takes the form of supplying our ever increasing abundance of energy generated from renewable sources through the existing leccy grid connections to pretty much every property in our country.
    The issue is that pretty much all our politicians and civil servants, and internet personalities, appear to be so fucking dumb that they can’t see this or aren’t motivated to push for focusing on the no brainer of just properly insulating as many of our poor thermal efficient rated properties is the issue.
    Pissing around clagging all manner of expensive greenwashing gadgetry onto highly compromised properties is not green. Making the properties more thermally efficient is the first thing one should be doing. Because if you don’t do that then the heat loss means they will still need to use more energy to heat them.
    As I’ve stated before and Cpt Yossa mentioned again a day or so back, work to de-couple the unit price of fossil fuel and renewable derived energy, but that looks like it can only be done once we return Scotland to self-governing status. So you’d think that would motivate a supposedly Nationalist administration more than just virtue signalling within the limited powers of the devolved settlement.

    But there’s nothing going on politically” state those that are clearly comfortably off and who aren’t having to endure the hell of existing in our society and on our land as we continue to be exploited.

  399. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird, at 10:50 am,

    Scotland has only three resources that are worth anything in the modern world: fish, hydrocarbons, and renewables.

    Fish aren’t worth that much, and the boats used to catch them in are privately owned. It’s really only licenses and post-catch VAT that ScotGov can count on. It’s about half a billion a year in total catch, so £100 million or so a year in revenue to Edinburgh. Chickenfeed.

    Oil and gas are predictably disappearing. If you look at the Danish Rystand database of over 65,000 active oil and gas fields on a global basis, Scotland has 17 of the top 25 most expensive costs of production in the world Rooossia and Alaska round out the rest of the top 25). There’s nothing at all wrong with Scottish oil and gas, it’s just freakingly expensive to get out from under the seabed and back to land, particularly after paying British elf n safety costs and insurances and helicopters and so on that’s all wound up in the cost of production. So there’s a bit of a systemic problem with your analysis: as the world decarbonises, it’s Scottish production that going to be stopped first. After all, if you are a global hydrocarbon giant, would you rather source from Nigeria ($14 cost of production per barrel), or Saudi Arabia $11), or even Venezuela (nominally $18, but kickbacks available), or Scotland $52 a barrel)?

    As for renewables, tell me why anyone would want to import from Scotland once they’ve built their own offshore wind. And those building plans are fast afoot: England is installing 5 times the capacity that Scotland has, Denmark, Germany and Holland plan to roughly equal Scotland’s capacity within a decade.

    Oh, and all the assets are privately owned. ScotGov can’t afford to nationalise them all.

    So look elsewhere for your “first step”.

  400. John Cowie
    Ignored
    says:

    After years of being a Wings supporter, never ever again.
    The inanity of the regular, irrational doom & gloom “absolutely nothing happening” baloney
    &
    FAR worse. The appalling attitude made clear to the Palestinian -Israeli conflict.

    =

    NEVER AGAIN

  401. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto Chiel said;

    “@Xaracen 9.47: thanks for all your erudite contributions on the Union and sovereignty and your great patience in refuting the nonsense spouted by some of the Yoons on here.

    I have always found the works of P.H. Scott to be very informative on 1707, etc.

    Mair pooer tae yer elbuck, as we still sometimes say in Auld Cadzow ? .”

    Thanks, Tinto, it can get distinctly discouraging in here at times, but SIWOTI Rules, as they say. The work goes on. 😀

    Re P.H.Scott, I read his ‘The Union of 1707 Why and How’, and similar works from other authors.

  402. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t the Nordic nations give free heating to their citizens?
    It’s a necessity. It’s Baltic..

  403. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan – I’m just waiting on Captain bull-shit Mr Mctavish getting back to me. Your position as Wings over Scotland’s “Resident Engineer” is secure. You’re seeing it all unfold in real-time and thanks to a blogger. Where else in the world would you see this?

  404. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    Duude

    Here was me thinking you were talking ’bout the 4am eternal when John still managed mischief with a neatly repackaged cheese and onion – and the hotties on the dancefgloor that thought he was great in all other departments ended up looking elsewhere..

    Lucky I got cancelled years ago lest all that hate crime you spilling constitutes a defamation & of whoever it is you think I might be too 😉

  405. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 12:04 pm

    “Oil and gas are predictably disappearing.”

    Yes, crude oil exports only worth £29bn last year. New licenses issued by Rishi to his city mates too.

    Plus all that Scottish gas keeping England’s power stations fuelled.

    And all those chemical exports.

    £50bn/yr plundered?

    Aye, nae wirth bathering oor daft wee heids aboot, England kens best.

  406. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – It’s a point for point response that’s required. You cannot answer a single point, can you.

    You’re in deep water and the cover-up is evaporating and you need someone to help, but no-one is helping.

    You now want to remove yourself from Wings over Scotland and that is sensible.

    Get the Advocate that witnessed the 17/8/16 meeting to call me at home? Remember him? The meeting was minuted and was witnessed by an Advocate.

    You’re conduct has diminished the Scottish Government and the engineering profession and you have needlessly put lives at risk and the minutes prove that.

    Your veiled threats do not concern me, or anyone else. I have signed letters from you from 30/9/16 and 7/10/16.

    The allegation could not be more serious and so you should take it seriously. It is a legacy issue from the old Education Minister and his civil-servants.

    He is gone and his team (including yourself) are gone, too. Do things get done legally now?

    I sent an example “Site 85 Timeline” showing the way a serious world government conducts these investigations. They don’t use bloggers as a means of communication.

    The Scottish Government should be a serious government too, but is it.

  407. Ian Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    Remember that Scotland banned fracking cheered on by the same people who marched to defend coal mining.

  408. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Xaracen: I also found Daiches’ “Scotland and the Union” and “Fletcher of Saltoun” pretty useful, along with Scott’s “1707: The Union of Scotland and England” and “Andrew Fletcher and The Treaty of Union”. I’m pretty sure you will know them but others might find them interersting.

    Ah, a new thread I see…..

  409. A Scot Abroad
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird,

    You overstate matters. Crude exports were $19 billion (that’s dollars, not £) in 2022, at a time of elevated prices due to you know what. Actual volumes being exported are down on average -2% each year on a ten year rolling basis. On current trends and with known policies, the U.K. will stop exporting oil altogether by 2040, and it will be uneconomic to produce it at all by a decade after that.

    Don’t try to lie in public. You demean yet further your already shabby public reputation. You are an utter fool.

  410. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    Looks like you’ve lost it (& maybe your case also).

    Back in serious world ASCE would be risking no little reputational damage (and hopefully some joint and several punitive ones) for continuing to support you in your current course so I’ll take it as read that they were never ALL on your side in the real world to begin with – at least until such time as I get 44 signed, stamped and verified letters of (grovelling) apology for the prejudice they encouraged (by association) against me.

  411. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mactavish – When the ASCE members responded to me, they responded as individual expert members of the ASCE. A few were members of the ICE as well. One of them, a senior UK expert, lectures worldwide on this subject and is well known to the ICE. There was a Professor of Engineering, numerous Geotechnical Consultants, a few Lecturers and a few Project Managers. All operate at the top of their profession. They identified themselves of course and you can check-out their qualifications and experience. They were all measured in their responses and very specific, as engineers tend to be. You have this information, don’t you? What I can say is that their responses were amongst the most consistent and overwhelming of 2017 for the entire ASCE and that’s some achievement.

    They were ALL on my side. Why should they issue a grovelling apology to you? Are you mad? These engineers are the best in the world, they were asked for their opinions and they gave them, like professional engineers are ethically and legally obligated to do. I remember the day when the ICE used to do that too and it wasn’t that long ago. Because you do not like these opinions, do you really think that you can threaten the ASCE members, legally? What planet are you on? They don’t agree with you because you are wrong and that’s engineering.

    Your Visual Inspection Reports on the other hand were by unknown local, ie Aberdeen, engineers (their names were redacted). As Professor Cole said to you in the Executive Summary section of the Cole Inquiry Report, these cannot be relied upon and so they should NOT be being used. It was Visual Inspection Reports that caused the closure of 17No schools in Edinburgh in 2016. Even so, you are still using them. Even when you have been told that the ones you are using are completely wrong, you still continue to rely on them? Do you not think that it perhaps might be your engineers that come under legal threat, or Police investigation?

    The Police will investigate those who are wrong and that appears to be yourself, Scottish Building Standards, Scottish Futures Trust and perhaps Scottish Ministers. Whether that involves criminality is for them to decide. They will not investigate the ASCE, because they are right – All of them are right. It’s just as well I asked the ASCE isn’t it? If we had all listened to your team, and I had done nothing, then the school would inevitably have “deformed” and if it deformed when people were in the building, then these people may be killed or injured.

    Anyway, enough of that. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have had enough of playing these nursery school games with you. The ASCE provided their guidance free of charge as that is the ethos of that professional institution. You and your team have been paid and what you are contractually required to do (and I asked you to do this a few hours ago) is obtain, from the contracted design engineer, a signed, stamped and verified DESIGN REVIEW of the as-built foundation design, including the deep excavation.

    Finally, ASCE Ethics Case Study 4 looks at the way law regards those who give the impression that a building is safe when it is not safe, and it collapses as a result of that, and the law treats them pretty harshly. The ASCE are not in that position just now, but you are. So, your engineering advice is proven to be utter garbage and I suspect your legal advice is utter garbage too.

    The Scottish Government might indeed not be facing multi-million pound claims due to your negligence on 17/8/16, but I think they probably will be. What a putrid affair this has been.

  412. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian 4:28pm
    We should also note there is a Corporate Homocide criminal investigation ongoing at at QEUH. And who was the health secretary at the time of opening? In that case subsequently 3 people actually died. Some might argue political expediency opened the QEUH too early. At last the wheels of justice are turning.

  413. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    George – I’ve been following QEUH and Anas Sarwar has created the pressure that has allowed that to happen. That’s the way I see it anyway and that’s the way Holyrood should work. Tragic and needless and lied to and there is nothing worse than that. For the above, the opinions of the ASCE are the “slam-dunk”, the “silver bullet”. Call it what you like, but they have been covered-up, by everyone, since 2017. I’ve been advised a few times to go to Police Scotland and when I did go, I found them to be great. A complete step-change from these Holyrood folk. They take it seriously, investigate it properly, and they came to the same conclusion that I write above.

  414. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    Not just mad, livid – Its clear from our exchange that English is not your native language so not impossible your ASCE referee(s) (if they exist) will include that in their excuses.

    Far more difficult might be how they explain any fit and proper person requirement covering your role in the work undertaken

    Also not sure either if they’ll need to compensate for George’s disturbing effort linking me to some sort of triple homicide on the back of your lies but they may want to make a statement to court disowning your nonsense regardless – not least to mitigate any actionable back to back rights in event his defamation by association relied in any way on their (alleged) endorsement of your integrity.

  415. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – All of the parties involved have all of the information referred to above and we are waiting on the “design review report” to conclude the matter to an outcome. Produce it, please.

  416. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian 5:31pm
    I concede Anas Sarwar ran with the “leaked” report in 2015 of a high risk of water contamination. Nobody else was bothered. Least of all the health secretary at the time Shona Robison. It was all about pomp, ceremony and electoral success and not patient safety. Deleting electronic messages. Not recording Government minutes, redaction. a lack of a Scottish MSM investigate journalism. An accident waiting to happen. And 3 people died. It grieves me to think this was a year after the vote on Scottish Independence. We gave them unfettered power with no serious checks and balance. Inherent in the devolved structures and processes of Holyrood. Many chickens coming home to roost. The laws of Scotland apply to everyone.

  417. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Stuart Mctavish 6:19pm
    My comment was directed at the Scottish Government and the Police Scotland Corporate Homocide criminal investigation on QEUH. Nowhere did I mention your name in that post. As for defamation I will sue you on behalf of donkeys there is no way its fair on them to be associated with me.

  418. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    George – I don’t know if you have ever been to a Scotgov meeting, but they do like to threaten you. It’s not like any other meetings that I have ever been at. You have summarized the problem in a few lines. Shona Robison, deleting electronic messages, redaction. But, the minutes survive because I took them myself. Since I spoke to Police Scotland I have become more relaxed. Stuart Mctavish obviously less so. Is there a “prima facie case of significant risk to the public?” Who said that? Threatening the ASCE with legal action is the action of a raving lunatic. If it weren’t for them, and me, where would the teachers and pupils stand now? Speaking of which, the EIS have been pretty silent, haven’t they?

  419. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    I’ll second that – but they, and you, and maybe even George*, better not forget to apologize.

    *suppose I were to apply for work and first thing the recruiter finds is my name associated with corporate homicide criminal investigation thanks to your lack of diligence and George being a bit of a donkey (as well) – that could be 150K pa he owes me right off the bat.

    🙂

  420. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – “You have also contended that a large excavation had the potential to cause a reduction in the bearing capacity of the ground. The design engineer has confirmed to us that he was aware of that excavation and potential impact but was satisfied with the integrity of the original design”. “Stuart Mctavish”, Head of Schools Infrastructure Unit, 30/9/16.

    You did write that letter? and sign it? It was a PDF letter, it wasn’t an Email? This is the information we are all waiting for. How many times do I have to ask you for it? We are waiting for the “design engineer’s design review”. Got it?

    If you have lied, then the public will be livid – won’t they? The teachers, parents, pupils. I imagine Police Scotland will be pretty pissed-off too and the ASCE will say: “What kind of crap engineers do you have in Scotland these days?”

  421. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Captain Yossarian 7:21pm
    Yes I have under a potential renewable ScotGov project. It’s was oor Eck that was the FM at the time. Fair enough there was budgetary constraints at the time. Anything 100k or more was binned. Oh for those days where a Scottish Government cared about public finances. I am out now our nemesis is an empty box just happened on the right name. Engineers stick together.

  422. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yossa

    I live in France

  423. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    A Scot Abroad @ 3:00 pm

    “Crude exports were $19 billion (that’s dollars, not £) in 2022”

    You show me your source for that, and I’ll show you mine saying it was GB£29 billion.

    And you forgot to mention gas and chemicals which help make up the approx £50 billion exports in these sectors.

    The colonizer ‘always understates the true worth of the colony’.

  424. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for that.

    I’m out too.

  425. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    stuart mctavish – We’re all finished.

  426. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Alf Baird says: at 7:56 pm

    You show me your source for that, and I’ll show you mine saying it was GB£29 billion.

    And you forgot to mention gas and chemicals which help make up the approx £50 billion exports in these sectors.

    The colonizer ‘always understates the true worth of the colony’.

    Indeed, I’d like NuEnglish to provides stats and an explanation for the ExRegio stuff.

    Confused’s post touches on the subject of the obscuring of accurate statistical information.
    And when I was working offshore West of Shetland, the oil from some fields and wells just flowed up the riser to an FPSO (floating production storage and offloading) vessel which was constantly moored over the wellhead for years in all weathers using dynamic positional thrusters. The oil was held on that vessel and then distributed onto other tanker vessels to be taken wherever the buyer wanted, so it never came near the Scottish mainland.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-little-respect/comment-page-2/#comment-2699174

    PS. If you are reading MaryB, I hope my views expressed earlier regarding the realities of district / community heating networks and the obvious green infrastructure already in place that could be utilised with a great deal less complexity and money has given you food for thought on the matter.

  427. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan 9:09pm
    All the lessons of District heating have been learned from the Caithness Heating and Power Project in Wick. See countless reports from 20 years ago to date. Private injection of Capital saved the day. It’s stable now but listen to customers at the start of the project. Another example of politicos getting involved in systems they don’t understand.

  428. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Ha ha, that’ll be Wick on the coast that means it doesn’t get near as cold as inland parts of Scotland. I could probably live in balmy Wick with tapps aff and nae heating at all after acclimatizing myself to cope with minus 25 temps which we occasionally see where I live. Some say I look young for my age but that’s probably down to cryogenic suspension from being partial frozen for a percentage of my life.
    Had a quick google and see Wick has a newish heat network on the go fuelled by woodchip. Was the earlier one similar or did they try a ground (well seawater) source heatpump system? Sea temps lag behind the seasons to a certain degree so there may have been a potential seasonal thermal advantage gain from a coil extracting heat from the rather large volume of ocean.

    But again in all this chatter, the priority should be to make properties as thermally efficient as possible FIRST, because if we don’t do that then energy is just being wasted through heat loss.

  429. MaryB
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan @ 9.09 and subsequent comments
    I think Lesley said that the existing gas pipework could be repurposed for the district heating and that would save a lot of digging. Maybe district heating would be possible on new housing estates?
    But, yes, there doesn’t seem to be much talk of insulation these days.
    My Swedish friend installed ground source heating three years ago, via a borehole down into the ground and it seems to be brilliant. She used the existing pipework. I’ve never heard anyone here talk about it though and I’m not sure why not. It’s popular in Sweden.

  430. Captain Yossarian
    Ignored
    says:

    The thing you have to watch with thermal insulation is fire and the only really fire retardant insulation is Rockwool, which is unpleasant to use and not rigid and so you need to fix it down. All the others that I am aware of anyway do support flame, not always but in the right combination and proximity with other materials. The first thermal insulation was called Jablite and it was blue in colour and bricklayers used to build it into brick and block cavity walls. That stuff used to burn like a furnace but because it was enclosed in a fireproof space, no-one worried. People just kept using it and it was virtually Jablite that was built into Grenfell Tower in the end. Different colour and much thicker, but essentially the same stuff.

  431. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan 9:48pm
    Wick was once referred to as the gateway to hell by a famous author. A failed district heating system under public control we should learn the lessons from that. I myself promote public ownership but only if the political numpties are excluded from decision making. I did a project called the Mudale Altnaharra public enhancement. Altnaharra has been the coldest place in Scotland for many years. I don’t think Aberdeenshire is anywhere near the far north. And I lived there. Bloody cold place.

  432. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ MaryB

    Hmm, but I thought the greenwashing future was going to just feed hydrogen through the existing gas pipelines to oor hooses. Of course that in itself has issues as hydrogen is a very small molecule and more likely to leak though joints than the gas currently used.
    But maybe that idea has bee dropped seeing as Robin’s recent article highlights Scots won’t really have any benefit from hydrogen as the deal struck is pretty crap. It’s hard to keep up with “so little going on”, isn’t it…

    http://robinmcalpine.org/this-hydrogen-deal-is-another-disaster/

    But some initial thoughts that immediately comes to mind:
    Is the existing gas pipeline even insulated to a sufficient level to keep the heated water flowing though from just leaching heat out through conduction into the ground.
    Gas line is a single small line to a property, so how would that even work… It won’t as you’d need an insulated flow and return pipe of significantly larger size so that still means massive amounts of careful excavation work to install connections to properties. See what I mentioned previously on difficulty of that physical work and the legal aspects and deeds.

    And again the cold hard reality is that the theory is one thing, the practical reality is another. I’ve witnessed the way Scottish Water force you to use their preferred contractors such as Clancy Docwra or May Gurney, they were as we engineers say, fucking useless.
    On that water main job, I worked with a very competent local contractor to lay the 70 meters of HDPE high pressure main pipe. It was all done perfectly and laid at the correct depth with identifying tape over the top of it so any future groundwork operations would observe the warning tape and not dig into the pipe below. But we were not allowed to do the completions at either end, no, that was the job of the “experts”.
    So one Monday morning without notice Clancy rock up and before I spotted them some guy still reeking of drink had proceeded to cut off 4 meters of the pipe including the fusion welded flange for the terminal hydrant, thus rendering the previous pressure test void and also rendering the previous flushing to purge and clean the pipe and the sample taken which was tested to ensure there was no chemical contamination of the pipe prior to it flowing freshwater into properties.
    The cutting short of the pipe also meant there was not enough length left to make the 13 fusion welded service connections without re-opening the tarmac road that we had a road opening permit in place for and re-tarred the trench once we had laid the pipe.
    So when I came back from walking my dog and observed what he had done, he got told in no uncertain terms to get the fuck off the job immediately as he had completely screwed up the planned and approved layout of how the pipework was meant to be laid to adhere to their regulations. It had taken almost a year to get to the point we could start to lay the main due to endless layers of paperwork and lawyers involved with legal rights of access etc.
    The saga dragged on for almost another year with Scottish Water trying to throw their weight about contrary to the signed contract I had with them. But one call from me to the waterwatch ombudsman lawyer and an email showing a few pictures of the shocking work the preferred contractors had done (which did not meet construction and use guidelines), and they backed down and ultimately came to rip out all their shoddy work and completely redo the end section and terminal hydrant as per my initially drawn and approved plans.
    It’s quite funny when some twat is standing next to you saying “what do you know about water pipes anyway”, and I mention I was an engineer working with hydraulics that carried oil at up to 10,000 psi, which is a pressure that would cut you in half if a leak occurred.

    So my point in stating this is that actually getting decent engineers to install anything to meet compliance standards these days is getting very hard.
    The folk installing solar PV in my village didn’t have roof ladders so were walking all over and breaking slates which is a no no, they also didn’t have proper masonry drills to drill through near 3 foot thick stone walls to run the armoured cables from the panel control boxes into the leccy consumer units in the properties.
    Fudging stuff and doing stuff on the cheap is not something a competent company does. But that is who is doing a great amount of this greenwashing stuff.

  433. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ll add another aspect related to shoddy workmanship and poor working practices, or just outright corruption.
    I mentioned up comment thread about spotting serious flaws in the EPC Register caused by manipulation of property rating figures to either make selling the property easier, or to gain access to grants.
    But another factor is that the data on EPC Register will be corrupted so have little worth in using it to assess how Scotland has moved forward in overall terms with improving the thermal efficiency of our housing stock.
    That being the case there is no proper way of determining if the many millions of pounds allocated to funding improvements has actually produced bona fide results.



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