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Wings Over Scotland


At the bus stop #1

Posted on June 14, 2017 by

We know that people like to chat generally about issues of the day (and more) in the comments, so while we’re taking a break we’ll probably put up stuff like this now and again just so that we don’t end up with a single post with thousands of comments in it. (And so you know we haven’t been killed by bears.)

They probably won’t all be about politics. Call them conversation starters.

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    1. 14 06 17 10:56

      At the bus stop #1 | speymouth

    208 to “At the bus stop #1”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      I like the geographical image but the population has lost of big red and yellow in Scotland.
      Maybe we should focus on what that says for a few months.

    2. Morag says:

      Not using the same shade of orange for the LibDems in the two figures isn’t helping. The LibDem seats are hard to distinguish from Labour in the left-hand one.

    3. Simone says:

      Does my bum look big in this?

      Lower population density = higher chance of voting Tory?

    4. G H Graham says:

      I see you used a version of the BBC’s weather map on the right.

    5. donald anderson says:

      Looks like the EBC proportional map.

    6. Speaking of cartograms (population-weighted maps), here‘s a nice one of Europe.

    7. mike cassidy says:

      You wait ages for one map to explain the General Election, then two come along at the same time.

    8. Toby Goodwin says:

      Yes! Your bum — London and the South East — looks absolutely enormous ?

    9. handclapping says:

      We should use the right hand map more often. Just like the weather map it shows just how little we matter to those in the South.

    10. ian mhor says:

      How curious that second map appears. Surely can’t be right, not with every hill, glen and island populated with thriving and vibrant communities.
      Oh, yeah, that will be Scotland, the “Great Wilderness of Europe”
      Wilderness : noun – a negelcted or abandoned area.

    11. geeo says:

      No wonder PR is resisted.

    12. Anne Bruce says:

      Ok. There’s only 2 ways about it.

      Either net migration or those of child bearing/child rearing age have some work to do.

    13. jfngw says:

      I would like to see the same right hand map showing the population spread in 1700, then we could have an indicator to how successful the union has been. Has Scotland shrunk relative to this period, I suspect the answer is yes.

    14. Patrick says:

      To borrow from the Canary, Rev., what is your take on this editorial. Sorry, no break for the wicked. lol. https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/13/big-election-story-political-establishment-doesnt-want-us-talk-images/

    15. Chick McGregor says:

      Because it is more OnT here, here is a comment from the last post carried forward.

      The European perspective of Scotland in the Middle Ages.

      In their mind Scotland was as big as England with as many towns of note.

      Mind you, at that time Scotland had a third to a quarter of the population of England.

      http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/chicmac/noortzeewee.jpg

      In similar vein, in the course of researching on shore wind turbine distribution, I had cause to artificially divide Germany into the England-like topography of the North and the Scotland-like topography of the South, as depicted in the following map.

      I was astonished to discover that the population density for both ‘halves’ was about the same, the South only being marginally less. And, for added information, on average in Winter Southern Germany is colder than Scotland.

      http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/chicmac/German%20On%20Shore%20Wind%20NvS.jpg

      Geography illuminates history.

    16. jacksg says:

      Hi Folks,

      Don’t post very often off to the Hebrides later today for a wee break.

      The following message from our FM was posted 40 min ago watch this space. ?

      Most of the media speculation about #ScotRef is nonsense. I’ll set out the way forward in due course, after talking to people across the SNP. I’ll take in best interests, not just of the SNP, but of Scotland…and not be dictated to by demands for quick headlines! In the meantime, the Scottish Government will focus on trying to influence Brexit talks – a Tory led hard Brexit is simply not accepted after the General Election

    17. Graeme says:

      I very rarely listen to Call Kaye but I heard it in the car 3 callers in a row supported Indyref2, one caller I heard described himself as a reluctant Nationalist was particularly good, very articulate & put his point across well.

      Couldn’t believe the English guy, he thinks we should stay in the union because if we leave he’ll have a problem crossing the border at Berwick when he goes to visit his family

      ffs

      Graeme

    18. Auld Highlander says:

      Has that fire in London been started deliberately to divert attention of other underhand goings on in Westminster?

    19. Murray McCallum says:

      The M3 / Thames breach in SW London looks like a military event.

      Scotland SNP; Wales Labour; England Conservative; and all of us at the whim of the DUP. The United Kingdom.

    20. Andy says:

      The problem with the canary article is it suggest that progressive parties should side with the largest party to oust the tories.

      In Scotland they sided with the tories to oust the SNP.

      Labour and Lib Dems care more about the union than left v right

    21. Chick McGregor says:

      PS

      Those orange dots are not communities they are wind farms (which indeed showed the expected topgraphical viability dependence.)

    22. Cuilean says:

      I think I can guess where you are Stu.

      You’ve finally caught a red squirrel family and you are driving north into the Scottish Highlands to release them into red squirrel country.

      Wearing your Tufty Badge of course.

      And you’re humming tae yer wee sel, ‘Away to the hills, to the caves, to the rocks, ere I own a usurper, I’ll couch with the fox, and tremble false Whigs, in the midst of your glee, You have not seen the last of my bonnets and me’.

    23. Daisy Walker says:

      35 is Bigger than 13…. Tories – Can’t Count, Can’t be Trusted

      35 is Bigger than 13… Hashtag… Thank Goodness for the SNP

    24. Fred says:

      Shows quite a nice line for re-drawing the border of Northern Ireland leaving Antrim & Down roughly, a reduced “Nation” for Arlene certainly but WGAF!

    25. galamcennalath says:

      The weather map approach to political analysis?

    26. Robert Kerr says:

      @jacksg

      Link please.

      The snp website is crap.

    27. TheWasp says:

      O/T
      Just heard the most bitchy, snidey put down of the FM by lowri turner on Matthew Wright five minutes ago. Apparently indyref2 is now dead, and anyway why would anyone vote for somebody who dresses like they are going to a wedding all the time. Audience of course lapped it up, giggles all round, particularly when she said it was lucky the maybots campaign was so back or Nicola would be a laughing stock. No mention of the ruthfuehrer though thank goodness

    28. Breeks says:

      Image on the right shows a bloated and obese carcass of UK with its once proud head that’s kept its looks but bowed in sadness and resignation.

    29. Robert Peffers says:

      Old Auntie Beeb really at it this am. They, that is the entire Westminster Establishment, are getting, momentarily, more strident and hysterical in their attempts to convince the hard of thinking that Indyref must be, “Taken off the table”.

      I have to agree with them, it is getting very close to the time for picking it up from the table and sticking it right up the Westminster Establishments collective nose.

      The sheer desperation they display indicates they are terrified of what Indyref2 will do to their totally undemocratic establishment..

    30. Derick fae Yell says:

      AuldHighlander

      No. It hasn’t. Catch a grip. Folk have died.

      There’s been an accidental fire in a flat, which has somehow found it’s way out (there should have been fire stopping to contain fire within the flat), followed by a catastrophic failure of both vertical and horizontal fire stopping. Followed by an equally catastrophic failure of fire stopping into every flat from the outside.

      Fire should absolutely not spread in this way in a properly constructed building. There should be stops to prevent fire spreading beyond one flat both out and in.

      Someone will get the jail for this, deservedly

    31. Breastplate says:

      The Unionists trying to block an independence referendum should be an absolute gift to the SNP.

      The Yes movement are the the people adhering to the principles of democracy by trying to ascertain the Will of the People, on the other hand we have the Unionists trying to suffocate the Voice of the People of Scotland which is completely undemocratic.

      It is a big stick we can use to show that whether you are a politician, media journalists or Joe and Josephine Public that this is a stance of hypocrites.

      The Unionists will answer back that we had a referendum but as anyone knows, the political landscape has changed dramatically since, that it was a political eon ago and that quite simply people have changed their mind and we should keep abreast of the majority opinion.
      As that what democracy is, measure the majority opinion and then enact it. A referendum is a tool to measure accurately the Will of the People.

      Anyone who wants to block an Indyref2 is undemocratic. If it’s a politician espousing the censorship of the Voice of the People of Scotland this should be vigorously highlighted that there should be no place in a democracy for them.

      But then, maybe it’s just me. Perhaps the very foundations of a civilised society isn’t that important to people, as nobody seems to be kicking up much of a fuss about the duplicity of the Unionists on this matter.

      I’ll get back to my cereal.

    32. starlaw says:

      Something seriously wrong if a fire can spread so easily through a building like that. Horrified to think that the country has hundreds of these buildings.

    33. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I am in complete agreement with Robert Peffers (FFS)at 10.38

      So indeed was our complete branch at its meeting last night. Absolutely unanimous. Get IndyRef2 onto the table and start campaigning for it now.
      I was so encouraged by the attitude at the biggest branch meeting we have had for some time that my whole mood has lifted.

      No shortage of comment as to why people should be at all puzzled why the independence vote seems to have fallen WHEN IN FACT WE DIDN’T ACTUALLY CAMPAIGN FOR INDEPENDENCE and haven’t done so for some considerable time.

      Of course we weren’t the clever boys. We are just the voluntary branch members that spend all our spare time working for the SNP

    34. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      There is a very simple point that gets missed. If we campaign for independence on a continuous basis and increase support for it (as we should)an Indy referendum becomes a popular idea.

      If we do not increase or strengthen support for independence by campaigning for it Indy referendum has lesser appeal and is easily attacked.

      That is where we are now. That is our own fault

    35. Dr Jim says:

      About England they always say, The people have spoken
      About Scotland they always say, We’ll do what’s best for all the people of Scotland

      See how that works England speaks, Scotland gets done for!

    36. Murray McCallum says:

      This map proves beyond all doubt that DUP and the Conservative Party are best placed to decide if Scotland should remain in any EU treaty.

      It’s important we do not upset Scottish people by asking their views on this trough a referendum on independence. They are too tired.

      These are vital economic decisions that are best made by Tory/DUP economic experts.

    37. Street Andrew says:

      Patrick, Thanks for the canary link.

      I haven’t been there for a while. Interesting piece.

    38. Breastplate says:

      Dave,
      I agree, the Unionists lambasted the SNP about incessantly talking up independence when they weren’t talking about it at all but they should have been unashamedly campaigning for it at all times on behalf of the people who have voted them into power to do just that.

      The Unionists campaigned on no Indyref2 and they had nobody to stand against them on that particular battlefield. Although the SNP didn’t lose they also didn’t win on ground they weren’t fighting.

    39. It doesn’t matter how often you tell some people or show them maps like the two above, that their votes in Scotland, in the majority of general elections will never influence the outcome of a UK election.

      They are prefer to remain in total ignorance or complete denial of the facts.

    40. colin alexander says:

      If another election soon at WM:

      SNP manifesto:

      Scottish Sovereignty if SNP win.

      Indi-ref, postponed till post next Scot Govt elections

      Instead:

      Scottish Sovereignty within the Union

      Holyrood (Hrd) is the supreme legislature, in all matters pertaining to Scotland.

      Thus, Holyrood decides which powers go to Hrd and which to WM.

      Scottish MPs remain at WM. Scrutinising and voting.

      Then Hrd would consider any legislation that effects Scotland. They can decide to veto where it applies to Scotland. Scotland could vote for a referendum if it wanted, no need to seek WM permission etc.

      I accept we many not be fully independent, we may have to be willing to share fiscal powers to make a union work- UK budget etc- powers with WM, which is a big negative, but the unionists financial scare stories about indi are then dead.

      But most other legislation, Scotland would decide it. Not WM deciding what we can and can’t run. We’d decide that.

      If you argue WM won’t approve Scottish Sovereignty within the Union; it’s less extreme than full indi via referendum.

      Indi via referendum would also require WM approval, in case you forgot that or didn’t know.

      Feedback please on IDEA, not whether I’m a tube or not. Thank you.

    41. Street Andrew says:

      Auld Highlander,

      what you say of the London flats fire is right – about the fire-proofing or lack of it. Somebody has done seriously dangerous modifications I suspect. If short-cutting for profit is the culprit I would suggest that suspension would be appropriate, but hanging is too good for people like that.

      Never underestimate an enemy when cornered. To some people politics is way more important than life – certainly other people’s lives. The mere fact that it is conceivable that this fire was a deliberate attempt to create distraction shows how low our trust is in the people who rule our lives.

      Just because somebody is a ‘conspiracy theorist’ doesn’t mean there ISN’T a conspiracy. But cock-up is the most likely suspect. Look out for weasel words and scapegoats when the evidence emerges and keep an open mind.

    42. A.H. says:

      Interesting fact:
      Did you know that Labour+Dems+SNP got more than 50% of the popular vote?
      In a real democracy (not our FPTP joke) May will be packing right about now.

    43. stu mac says:

      @starlaw says:
      14 June, 2017 at 11:05 am
      Something seriously wrong if a fire can spread so easily through a building like that. Horrified to think that the country has hundreds of these buildings.
      ============

      Apparently there were safety concerns raised by residents 5 years ago.
      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/fire-safety-concerns-raised-by-grenfell-tower-residents-in-2012

    44. mogabee says:

      Right hand map looks like some madwoman about to gobble NI…

      Maybe that says more about me than I’d care to admit! 😀

    45. mogabee says:

      ***GOBBLE UP* FGS!

    46. Ken500 says:

      Lowrie Turner is another pretendy ‘journalists’ come Life coach. Considering how she lives her life is in need of a llife coach. Ignorant beyond belief. Racist. Doesn’t like foreigners or too many immigrants. Intolerant. The immigrant crisis in Europe caused by the Westminster unionist gov illegal actions despised by the majority.

      Ill informed and ignorant. Another one with a collosal ego who demands her ‘rights’ and privileges while supporting attacking the rights of the most vulnerable in society. Supports sanctioning, starving and killing people. While demanding her ‘rights’ and privileges. Empty ‘fashion’ journalist. The sight of her attire. A laughing stock. What a cobbled up hypocrite. Turner is a right nasty piece of work. Envious and spiteful.

    47. Proud Cybernat says:

      You simply cannot campaign constantly for a gola. You burn out otherwise. We keep the issue alive. We point continue to out on social media and traditional media how the Union is basically shafting Scotland and still is. We point out the promises made by the Unionists in IndyRef1 and how they broke every last one of them – which renders that result null and void. None of any of that has changed. It is still the rotten stink it always was and, in time, payback will come. The Yoons know they fucked up by not delivering as promised. And they know it is going to be them that will be on the losing side.

      Which is why they are trying to talk up the alleged referendum malaise and apathy in Scotland. It’s BOLLOX and they know it’s bollox. Just because THEY say no one wants another IndyRef does not make it true. Just because they win a few more seats in Scotland at GE17 won’t make the issue go away. They threw EVERYTHING they had into GE17 in a bid to crush the SNP (the plan right from the get-go because of the looming EU negotiations – how can they trade off Scotland’s grounds to the EU with IndyRef2 STILL ON THE TABLE? You can’t trade something that, in the end, might not be in your gift to trade. So the SNP had to be crushed. That was the goal).

      They FAILED. They LOST. And the EU, seeing 35-24, can also see this.

      The BritNat Establishment can big themselves up all they like, try to convince themselves (and the EU) that they won the election in Scotland but we all know that politicians lie and, more importantly, we know also that maths DON’T lie. 35 is greater than 24 – maths don’t lie.

      You LOST Yoons. Get over it.

      Now the focus turns to Brexit – as it should. This is the single biggest threat to Scotland’s well-being in all of our life-times and beyond. If there is no deal or a bad deal (I can’t see any deal being better than our present deal), then we (Scotland) should have a default option of saying no a deciding our own future. Why should we meekly follow the rUK off a cliff-edge? When the stark reality of this becomes clear over the coming weeks and months, THAT is when minds in Scotland will see the horror unfolding and start thinking to themselves “I’m not up for this. I think indy is preferable to this horror show.” And THAT is when we really begin campaigning in earnest.

      We’re in a hiatus period. But the IndyRef mandate has its triple-lock. The BritNat Establishment FAILED in its objective to remove the obstacle that is the Mighty SNP. They are now in a very very bad place indeed because Scotland’s resources are not in their gift to negotiate during Brexit negs. And how they must hate the SNP for winning last week.

      The Yoons are majorly panicking now. Now wonder they are shrieking from the rooftops that IndyRef2 should be off the table because , em, becaue er THEY LOST.

      Aye very good. IndyRef2 REMAINS on the table and the Yoons will just have to suck it up. We’re getting there. Keeping our powder dry. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.

    48. Greannach says:

      Seeing Ruth Davidson cavorting around reminds me of Jim Murphy. Both enjoyed putting themselves into ludicrous photo-op situations and talking themselves up.

      Nowadays it’s hard to imagine the media ever took Murphy seriously.

      By autumn it’ll be hard to imagine the media ever took Davidson seriously.

    49. Petra says:

      Well thanks for that link Nana. BBC news is reporting today that our economy is in a dismal state due to Nicola’s stance in relation to Independence. Demanding of course that she should take Indyref2 off of the table. They even stated that this, dismal state, was based on SG Chief economist Gary Gillespie’s report.

      You know you couldn’t make this up. They don’t seem to give a sh*t anymore. If anyone gets the chance (TV license or not, lol) make a point of listening to the news and then fire the facts / truth right across social media.

      https://beta.gov.scot/news/scotlands-economic-performance/

    50. Dan Huil says:

      DUP/Westminster will deliver independence to Scotland because of DUP/Westminster’s arrognace, ignorance and incompetence.

    51. COLIN ALEXANDER says:

      @Proud Cybernat 14 June, 2017 at 12:20 pm

      If Scotland was sovereign within the union, we could decide we wanted the Greenland / Denmark situation.

      We could have the sort of deal NS wanted, without independence.
      WM said no, as WM is sovereign.

      But we have not asserted sovereignty. If we established a political mandate we could do that.

      I totally agree with independence, but for now I see that as winner with unionists too as a way forward for Scotland until the majority agree independence is best.

    52. Breastplate says:

      Proud Cybernat,
      I think we’re in agreement apart from what we both mean by campaigning, I mean work systematically towards the goal of independence without having a time where we avoid talking about it.
      I don’t mean send out all the literature and activists we’ve got round all the doors until there is no money left.
      I simply want the SNP to be unashamedly keeping the ideals of independence front and centre and that can be done continuously, I accept that that there are varying levels of intensity when we talk about campaigning with varying levels of cost.

    53. Breastplate says:

      Colin Alexander,
      I would be more inclined to take it for granted that Scotland is already Sovereign within the Union by acting like it.
      For instance, no need to believe we have to ask Westminster if we can hold an independence referendum or not.
      I’m of the opinion that we hold one whether Westminster agrees or not and if they jump up and down and stamp their feet, well, that’s just a bonus.

    54. schrodingers cat says:

      the anti indyref2 is a temporary tactic to fill in the space where a government and queens speech should be, very soon, focus will turn to the eu, they cannot hide there and they know the bad news will get through to everyone in scotland.

      since corbyn wants to leave single market as well, the libdems will be the only yoon party arguing against leaving the single market.

      i seriously think treeza will walk out of the eu very quickly, so take stus advice, chill out, have a holiday, we are going to need it as this war isnt over,

      this is the phoney war period, everything will change very soon.

    55. Capella says:

      O/T – maybe – I see the Supreme Court has ruled that women from NI are not entitled to an abortion in England under the NHS.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40271763

      No mention of the recent support for NI women getting this health care in Scotland. Much to the dislike of the DUP reported by The Guardian in Nov 2016:

      “Sturgeon’s offer of possible help to Northern Irish women and girls should be a matter of deep embarrassment to ministers in Northern Ireland. Theresa May should match Sturgeon’s offer to stand up for Northern Irish women abandoned by their own politicians. When it comes to the human right to healthcare, lines on a map should be no barrier.”

      Unfortunately, Theresa May is not inclined to help women in NI if it would upset the DUP.
      http://archive.is/wn8w0

    56. gus1940 says:

      Can I direct anybody in urgent need of a quick-acting emetic to the gut-wrenching hymn of adoration for The Ruthsfuhrer by that well known tractor Alex Bell in today’s Guardian.

      Apparently this modern day saint exudes charm and that’s just for starters – stop laughing at the back.

    57. Petra says:

      @ Greannach says at 12:25 pm ….. ”Seeing Ruth Davidson cavorting around reminds me of Jim Murphy. Both enjoyed putting themselves into ludicrous photo-op situations and talking themselves up. Nowadays it’s hard to imagine the media ever took Murphy seriously. By autumn it’ll be hard to imagine the media ever took Davidson seriously.”

      Spot on Greannach. How the mighty can fall as we witnessed with Murphy and more recently with May. Ruth Davidson will find herself between a rock and a hard place in the very near future. On the one hand she’s made a point of pretending that she’s not actually a Tory at all, but her big ego has driven her on to posturing about being T May’s right hand man. Photographed of course sitting at the far end of the Cabinet table with a scowl on her face.

      She’s done more U-turns than Theresa May and that’s saying something and as far as her Brexit U-turn is concerned she has just duped MANY Brexiteers who voted for her, for a Hard Brexit, as outlined clearly in the ScotTorrid manifesto.

      She’s made a big deal of pontificating about defending LGBT rights, relating specifically to her and her lesbian friends, but has conveniently forgotten she’s done nought for the victims of rape, the disabled, elderly, bereaved, widowed etc.

      She doesn’t seem to give one whit either (other than her LGTB concerns) that her new comrades in arms, the DUP, are sectarian, climate change deniers and Irish language repressers who are happy to use ‘dark’ money to achieve their ends. On the other hand, in relation to the latter, Ruth’s probably taken a leaf out of their book.

      They do at least have some things in common such as Ruth Davidson hoovering up the Orange Order votes in Scotland and aligning herself with a party who don’t give a damn about rape victims either, even if the perpetrator happens to be the kid’s father, uncle or brother. Most people will be getting the measure of this woman now, especially as she has pushed herself into the limelight. She’s a ‘Me, Me’ before everyone else no matter how vulnerable they happen to be and Party before the People kind of person. I’m just hoping that she gets even more publicity when her Orange Order pals parade through the streets of Scotland, leading with a banner of her nasty looking fizog.

    58. Murray McCallum says:

      I gain comfort on England’s Conservative & Unionist Party negotiating on little Scotland’s behalf.

      Look at their attention to detail in the transition to Universal Benefit. Without this level of financial planning, expertise and the best Civil Service in the world, claimants could have been lead to suicide, crime, debt, and destitution.

      We have the best of both worlds. The Labour Shadow Chancellor talked about joining the Customs Union. This is a fantastic back-up as it will allow rich individuals to move capital anywhere in Europe but avoid workers being able to move where the jobs are.

      The Conservatives and Labour Unionist Party have us covered. Everything is alright.

    59. Street Andrew says:

      Good idea, Rev. to have a break from the political fray for a few days.

      Even better idea to drop discussion points in to keep the conversation going.

      BTW When I raised the question about ‘Wings on the Air’ the other week I wasn’t suggesting you should organise and run a broadcasting operation in your ‘spare’ time!

      I was rather hoping that there might be a few wingers with some knowledge and experience in the field who could see the importance of having some broadcast media influence.

      The BBC won’t change its stance as the voice of the (London) establishment. Actually it dare not because the piper must be paid and s/he who pays calls the tune.

      I’m not thinking of a volunteer radio station running from somebody’s back bedroom, I’m thinking of a ‘for real’ commercial radio station with broad appeal funded in the long term by advertising revenue and creating real ‘jobs’ – techies, journos, presenters, DJs etc. Albeit the first step may be an online-only version.

      Start with radio then move into TV. Not tomorrow or next week; a bit further ahead than that.

      An Independent Scotland will be a strange animal with all the licence fee going to London to pay for English propaganda being piped into our homes.

      I don’t know – maybe we think STV is already doing the job. Maybe there isn’t a gap in the market.

      This blog correspondence suggests to me that the market is wide open.

    60. colin Alexander says:

      @ Breastplate 14 June, 2017 at 12:48 pm

      With regard to an indi-ref. Same principle really. Scottish democratic mandate. Scottish sovereignty.

      Holyrood (SP) voted for an indi-ref. SP MSPs were democratically elected. That’s the democratic mandate.

      What the UK Govt or WM can do legally is one thing. What it would do – what it could POLITICALLY defend and get away with if it denied Scottish democracy- is another matter altogether.

      If it looks very likely YES would win, then I’d prefer an indi-ref and independence.

      Since 2014 till date, NO has shown an almost consistent majority in opinion polls. Unless the polls shift for whatever reasons, I would prefer the Scottish Sovereignty option for now.

      But I’m a democrat, I totally accept there was a mandate for an indy-ref when the SP voted for one.

      I just think Sovereignty within the Union would be the winner- at the present time -if people chose between indi, WM sovereign or SP sovereign.

    61. Valerie says:

      Derick fae Yell. 12.47

      Ffs, that is just so damning, and I do hope someone is held responsible. I see its a private management company, and the cladding, installed last year, was plastic c to stop water but as you say, should have fire stops.

      I worked in council housing, and the theory with high rise fires, is you renovate to contain fires to a floor, small box area. I wonder if they asked the London fire authorities to approve the plans. I used to have to deal with unannounced visits from the local firemaster, just to small local offices, and glad I was of them.

      The cladding seems the focus, as one witness described ‘a river of fire’.

      I can’t imagine a more horrendous type of fire.

    62. Macnakamura says:

      Derick fae Yell says

      Someone will get the jail for this, deservedly

      :::::::::::::::::::
      No, they won’t.

    63. manandboy says:

      With the election in Scotland. we have just witnessed, in the European Union, an unlawful and orchestrated attempt by one country, England, to substantially interfere with the election in another country, Scotland, for the purpose of bringing down the government at Holyrood and sabotaging the country’s right to hold an Independence Referendum.
      The 3 British Nationalist parties are above the law. What they have done is simply being swept under the carpet.

      Westminster has decided to go to war against Scotland. Right now, they are just trying out different ideas to see which is the cheapest way to do it.

    64. Robert Peffers says:

      @colin alexander says: 14 June, 2017 at 11:53 am:

      “Feedback please on IDEA, not whether I’m a tube or not. Thank you.”

      No thanks. That is the worst idea I’ve heard since Kezia was spouting her inane rubbish about United Kingdom in federation.

      Nothing short of complete acceptance of Westminster of the long established, (since 1320), legal principle that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and thus that the, “Rule of Law”, existing in Scotland differs from that of England will suffice to return the Treaty of Union to being an actuality.

      The Rule of law in the KINGDOM of England, (all three countries), established, (in 1688), that that kingdom of England was a constitutional monarchy.

      Then, upon signing the Treaty of Union, these were passed into United Kingdom law by the two respective Acts of Union on 1706/7.

      There has been no actual legal change of that since the United Kingdom government first took office on 1 May 1707.

      Here is the exact text of Article XIX of the Treaty, (and repeated in both Acts of Union), that is the actual legal situation. In short the present Westminster set up of Westminster claiming absolute sovereignty is utter mince:-

      “XIX. THAT the Court of Session, or Colledge of Justice, do after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations for the better Administration of Justice, as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that hereafter none shall be named by Her Majesty, or her royal Successors, to be ordinary Lords of Session but such who have served in the Colledge of Justice as Advocates, or principal Clerks of Session for the Space of five Years; or as Writers to the Signet for the Space of ten Years, with this Provision, That no Writer to the Signet be capable to be admitted a Lord of the Session, unless he undergo a private and publick Tryal on the Civil Law, before the Faculty of Advocates and be found by them qualified for the said Office, two Years before he be named to be a Lord of the Session; yet to as the Qualifications made, or to be made, for capacitating Persons to be named ordinary Lords of Session, may be altered by the Parliament of Great Britain. And that the Court of Justiciary do also after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain, and without Prejudice of other Rights of Justiciary; and that all Admiralty Jurisdictions be under the Lord High Admirall or Commissioners for the Admiralty of Great Britain for the time being, and that the Court of Admiralty now established in Scotland be continued, and that all Reviews, Reductions, or Suspensions of the Sentences in Maritime Cases, competent to the Jurisdiction of that Court, remain in the same Manner after the Union, as now in Scotland, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall make such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be judged expedient for the whole United Kingdom, so as there be always continued in Scotland a Court of Admiralty, such as in England, for Determination of all Maritime Cases relating to private Rights in Scotland competent to the Jurisdiction of the Admiralty Court, subject nevertheless to such Regulations and Alterations as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that the Heritable Rights of Admiralty and Vice-Admiralties in Scotland be reserved to the respective Proprietors as Rights of Property, subject nevertheless, as to the Manner of exercising such heritable Rights, to such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all other Courts now in being within the Kingdom of Scotland do remain, but subject to Alterations by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all inferior Courts within the said Limits do remain subordinate, as they are now, to the supreme Courts of Justice within the same, in all time coming; and that no Causes in Scotland be cognoscible by the Courts of Chancery, Queens-Bench, Common-Pleas, or any other Court in Westminster-hall; and that the said Courts, or any other of the like Nature, after the Union, shall have no Power to cognosce, review, or alter the Acts or Sentences of the Judicatures within Scotland, or stop the Execution of the same; and that there be a Court of Exchequer in Scotland after the Union, for deciding Questions concerning the Revenues of Customs and Excises there, having the same Power and Authority in such Cases, as the Court of Exchequer has in England; and that the said Court of Exchequer in Scotland have Power of passing Signatures, Gifts, Tutories, and in other Things, as the Court of Exchequer at present in Scotland hath; and that the Court of Exchequer that now is in Scotland do remain, until a new Court of Exchequer be settled by the Parliament of Great Britain in Scotland after the Union; and that after the Union, the Queen’s Majesty, and her royal Successors, may continue a Privy Council in Scotland, for preserving of publick Peace and Order, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall think fit to alter it, or establish any other effectual method for that end.”

      So there you go. The actual Treaty of Union was set-up to be a form of federation between only two, Equally Sovereign, Kingdoms.

      Westminster has illegally made itself sovereign and has assumed they are sovereign.

      Furthermore they have since split up the bipartite United KINGDOM as Westminster being the de facto parliament of the COUNTRY of England sovereign over three dominion countries and using EVEL to enforce English sovereignty, (as delegated from the then, “The Sovereign Monarchy of England”, to the then Westminster Parliament of the Kingdom of England in 1688 by the Glorious Revolution.

      Scotland, in 1688, was still an independent kingdom and country and thus there is no way that this Westminster Parliament of England is the same parliament that first sat on 1 May 1707. The only thing it had in common with that former Parliament of England was it sat in the same building as the former parliament of England and that building has since burned to the ground and been replaced by the present Westminster buildings.

    65. Ken500 says:

      Poor internet connection or lack of internet use has a bearing on Indy support.

    66. Ken500 says:

      Poor internet connection or lack of of internet use has a bearing on Indy support and voting choices.

    67. Valerie says:

      On Twitter, focus is on all missed opportunities or those deliberately turned down by politicians.
      ———————–

      As reported by Political Scrapbook, 71 of the MPs who voted against the measure to ensure landlords kept their properties for habitation are residential landlords themselves. According to the register of members’ financial interests as of December 2015, those who voted against the measure listed had also recorded their income as a residential landlord under Section 6(ii) of the current register of members’ interests as -“Income derived from property: over £10,000 in a calendar year”.

      —————–

      We have cuts to fire brigade, police, NHS, terror attacks. BoJo had safety railings on London bridge removed because they were ‘ugly’.

      Yet, the number of people voting Tory?

      BTW, John Nicolson is tweeting again. Angry about DUP and their LGBT record.

    68. K1 says:

      Aye Valerie, here’s the full list of those Tory MP’s who voted against the measure to ensure landlords maintained their properties fit for habitation. Former PM David Cameron is on that list. All of these Tory MP’s are private landlords themselves, (there is an amendment on this article removing two on this list, scroll down to the bottom to see)

      Nigel Adams
      Stuart Andrew
      Victoria Atkins
      Jake Berry
      James Berry
      Bob Blackman
      Robert Buckland
      Alun Cairns
      David Cameron
      Alex Chalk
      James Cleverley
      Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
      Geoffrey Cox
      Mims Davies
      Philip Davies
      Richard Drax
      James Duddridge
      Alan Duncan
      Philip Dunne
      Jane Ellison
      George Eustice
      Mike Freer
      Richard Fuller
      John Glen
      Robert Goodwill
      Chris Grayling
      Dominic Grieve
      Chris Heaton-Harris
      Peter Heaton-Jones
      George Hollingberry
      Kevin Hollinrake
      Philip Hollobone
      Nick Hurd
      Stewart Jackson
      Margot James
      Sajid Javid
      Joseph Johnson
      Simon Kirby (teller)
      Greg Knight
      Brandon Lewis
      Julian Lewis
      Craig Mackinlay
      Tania Mathias
      Karl McCartney
      Anne Marie Morris
      Sheryll Murray
      Robert Neill
      Sarah Newton (teller)
      Jesse Norman
      David Nuttall
      Neil Parish
      Owen Paterson
      Rebecca Pow
      Jeremy Quin
      Jacob Rees-Mogg
      Laurence Robertson
      Julian Smith
      Royston Smith
      Mark Spencer
      John Stevenson
      Desmond Swayne
      Derek Thomas
      Anne-Marie Trevelyan
      Andrew Turner
      Shailesh Vara
      Theresa Villiers
      Ben Wallace
      David Warburton
      Craig Whittaker
      John Whittingdale
      Nadhim Zahawi

      https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/full-list-landlord-tory-mps-who-voted-against-making-properties-fit-human-habitation-1537725

    69. David Caledonia says:

      I could not give a damn about the lying media or the so called act of union, it will all be just history in time, Scotland will be independent, its just a matter of time, and as for another scottish referendum, who can stop it, certainly not westminster, if the people of scotland vote for an SNP government, that’s democracy in action, we give them a mandate to act on our behalf, if we vote SNP, we all know what we are voting for and that’s independence, never be afraid to say it loud and clear, and if westminster or any other twats try to mucky the waters, tell them where to go, be better pulling all our MPs out of westminster anyway, its just a dictatorship dressed up as a democratic chamber, we all know its just one big charade down there, so why bother being there in the first place

    70. Muscleguy says:

      About a decade or so ago I was called to jury duty. We were trying a case of metal theft. The Fiscal was making an example of this one because the metal in question was dry riser valves from a multi here in Dundee.

      We had the local chief fire officer in full uniform come in to inform us as to the importance and necessity of these in cases of fire.

      If the system is working as designed the fire fighters just need to carry hoses up to the landing ends and attach them to the valve and they have water pressure at height.

      I thought about that trial watching the snorkel units look dwarfed in comparison to the height of the building.

      Obviously in that sort of situation the fire fighters will need to be fire suited with breathing apparatus etc and may well be more focussed on escorted rescue than fire fighting.

      BTW we found they guy guilty on both counts, theft and endangering life. I got the dubious honour of pronouncing this as I got press ganged into being foreman. Found I couldn’t look at the defendant while I did it, faced the sheriff and the teller instead.

    71. Ken500 says:

      The UK economy is in decline because of the Brexit decision by Westminster a Unionists which is also having a negative effect on the Scottish economy because of the Westminster Unionists total ignorance and negative management. The complete tragic decisions taken by Westminster Unionists in relationship to the UK/World economy. Ie the Westminster Unionist decision to illegally tax the Scottish Oil & Gss sector at 40% since Jan 2016.

      The Westminster to taken £4Billion a year out of Scotland’s raised revenues to pay loan repayments on debt. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Refusing Scotland the promised fiscal powers to run it’s own economy, to maintain and expand growth. Tax evasion HNMRC not fit for purpose. £Billions in quantive easing benefiting the rest of the UK. Not benefitting Scotland on an illegally fixed every decreasing Budget being cut illegally by Westminster Unionists. Prof Murphy.

      Westminster Unionists decision costing Scotland £20Billion a year. Against the majority in Scotland wishes and the public interest. BBC pretendy journalists are blantant incompetent, ill reasearch ignorant parasites who can’t even count of read a balance sheet. Intellectual fiscal pygmies. A threat to a Democratic society.

    72. Petra says:

      Interesting to see that BBC Scotland news, in relation to the dismal Scottish economy / take Indyref2 off of the table, had changed dramatically by lunch time. I wonder if the Chief economist had words with them? And no doubt they were also inundated with people phoning in this morning to complain about their blatant bias and lies.

      Complaints: Phone number is 03700100222. Extension 2 / 2.

      ………………….

      I see that Theresa May has done a runner again. Horrendous stories emerging about this fire and all she’s managed to do is release a message to say that she’s saddened. The reporter adding that in light of what’s happened the deal with the DUP will not be announced now until next week. The Queen’s Speech will be delayed, as will Brexit negotiations.

      I wonder if she’s running around trying to find out if Tory cuts played a part in this? If so,it looks as though the Tory chickens are coming home to roost.

    73. K1 says:

      Further:

      ‘Theresa May’s new chief of staff was one of a series of housing ministers who “sat on” a report warning high-rise blocks like Grenfell Tower were vulnerable to fire for four years.

      A former Chief Fire Officer and secretary of a parliamentary group on fire safety today revealed successive ministers had had damning evidence on their desks since 2013 and nothing had happened.

      And the Labour MP who chairs the group said ministers had “sat on” the recommendations for almost four years.

      Gavin Barwell, who was housing minister until losing his seat in last week’s election, promised to review part B of the Building Regulations 2010, which relate to fire safety, but the review never materialised.’

      The Tory’s are damned by this, the election was called just as they were about to have the review…

      http://archive.is/57uI5

    74. schrodingers cat says:

      lots of folk in yes movement disgruntled by snp’s apparent lack of willingness to fight back against the bbc.

      i think the tact taken by snp is 100% correct but i recognise that voices need to be heard
      question, is there anyway the yes movement can propel the likes of ponsonby(london calling) wgd, wos, etc into a position of authority and able to speak to for the greater yes movement? and if we did do this, would they get any air time on stv or bbc?

    75. Macart says:

      @schrodingers cat

      “Is there anyway the yes movement can propel the likes of ponsonby(london calling) wgd, wos, etc into a position of authority and able to speak to for the greater yes movement?”

      If they were official spokespersons for the YES campaign say? When it’s up and running again.

      If they were on the board for instance?

    76. Famous15 says:

      Re London fire. The Tory leader of the council being interviewed on BBC News and you clearly hear someone in the background shouting that he had blood on his hands.

      The buck stops higher. The Tory Government is responsible for Fire Regulations.

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m going to go out on a limb and say that there were a good number of people wanted to give the SNP a kicking, to teach them a lesson not to take them for granted, who are already back to voting SNP next time.

    78. Macart says:

      @yesindyref2

      I’d say there’s more than bit of weight to that. When they see the unfolding train wreck of events in the coming weeks, they’re perhaps going hope they get a chance to prove it too.

    79. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers: For me of little understanding

      There was no referendum in 1707 Robert and no citizens took part or were even informed of the sale of Scotland and they never even found out about it for some time and then there were protests just in time to be too late

      So in the interests of fairness, which we know that’s something the Tories never really ascribe to, but surely we’re owed a referendum seeing as how we never got the offer in 1707

      You’ll notice my use of the word “offer” when I speak about a Scottish referendum and not the generally used Unionist word which is “Threat” of a referendum

      Davie Cameron made an offer of such a device to the people but when Nicola Sturgeon does the same thing the scenario becomes that of a Hammer Horror film

      Two years ago Nicola Sturgeon was described by the media as the most dangerous woman in the UK because she won an election, present day sees Nicola Sturgeon described as a total loser for winning yet another election

      Mrs May has a disaster of an election admitted even by herself yet she has risen from the flames like a Tory Phoenix unbowed and undefeated because she signed up to a deal with an actual and real dangerous entity in Arlene Foster and the DUP and our glorious media play it all down as if Nothing to see here move along now it’ll all be OK

      Corbyn spoke to somebody in the IRA in the eighties just as the UK Government did and that seemingly makes Corbyn an advocate of murderous and kneecapping treacherous methods

      I’d like to say it’s a funny old world, but it’s really not when the only dice available for you to throw belong to the BBC Government of these United Kingdoms of England with dominion over it’s colonies and their loaded dice

      One more thing if my counting is even close, but, if Corbyn had managed to take all of the SNP seats in Scotland they currently hold (not likely) he’d still have lost the election
      making the old saying much used by the First Minister correct when she says

      Vote Labour get Tory

      And she was right again! Yet again we hear all the losing parties in Scotland calling for the winners head by using their collective psychic abilities to inform us what the electorate actually meant to say….. but didn’t

      Who’d be a politician eh

    80. Grouse Beater says:

      The amusing spectacle is to watch the Tory Tarantino Dozen toddle off to Westminster for a celebration party only to discover it’s a wake!

      This will sting them until I ‘Westminster Armageddon’ published Saturday.

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-f9U

    81. Proud Cybernat says:

      Ian Blackford voted leader of SNP group at WM. I’d have preferred Tommy Shepherd or Joanna Cherry myself. Be interesting to see how well he tackles May.

    82. crazycat says:

      I’ve just looked at the Guardian’s report on the horrendous fire in London, and it includes this (my bold):

      Mike Tobin, the technical director of Security and Fire Experts Ltd in Bury, Greater Manchester, said: “As a rule, the Stay Put policy works but I think this is such a tragic incident there’s so many potential issues that make it a one-off”

      Tobin said the ‘Stay put’ policy was the long and short of advice to residents in tower blocks and that it was for someone “far higher than my pay grade” to decide whether it should be reviewed.

      He described the inferno as a game-changer for the fire safety industry. “I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “This will change our industry whether we like it or not. There’s too many deaths for it to go without something coming out of it – they might look at what Scotland is doing, putting sprinklers in all new communal buildings but that would not have stopped this fire.”

      Getting on with the day job, again.

    83. starlaw says:

      If the bottom of that map gets any bigger it will burst

    84. K1 says:

      Top fire safety officials are discussing the ‘stay put’ policy in high rise buildings that have been in place since the 50’s. The refurbishments are actively being described as a major factor in the spread of this fire and may well affect any refurbished high rises in recent years. It’s on record that during the Grenfell refurb the ‘safety stops’ were removed temporarily whilst new heating pipes where being fitted, it is not clear whether these stops where re installed. A lot of the high rise refurbed buildings have not had sprinkler systems put in.

      In relation to sprinkler systems a ‘former Tory housing minister warned MP’s against beefing up fire safety regulations, because it could discourage house building’, this from the guardian live coverage. Further: It says the coroner’s report into the 2009 blaze in Camberwell called for developers refurbishing high-rise blocks to be encouraged to install sprinkler systems.

      Why am I going into this kind of detail on Wings?

      Because there is a Scotland context, we too have high rise flats that have been refurbished in recent times, and people who live in high rises around Scotland need to see that we have put sprinklers into our high rises, again from Guardian live coverage:

      ‘Mike Tobin, the technical director of Security and Fire Experts Ltd in Bury, Greater Manchester, said: “As a rule, the Stay Put policy works but I think this is such a tragic incident there’s so many potential issues that make it a one-off”

      Tobin said the ‘Stay put’ policy was the long and short of advice to residents in tower blocks and that it was for someone “far higher than my pay grade” to decide whether it should be reviewed.

      He described the inferno as a game-changer for the fire safety industry. “I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “This will change our industry whether we like it or not. There’s too many deaths for it to go without something coming out of it – they might look at what Scotland is doing, putting sprinklers in all new communal buildings but that would not have stopped this fire.”

      A senior firefighter in the north-west of England, who did not want to be named, said he had never seen anything like in his 32 years in the fire service. He said it was so “out of the ordinary and as yet not understood”. “Conventional wisdom may not fit this scenario,” he said.’

      It would still be worthwhile for any tenants in recently refurbed high rise blocks to contact their various housing agencies to establish the veracity of this for their block? Get peace of mind folks.

      They’ve, the UK Government, developers and fire safety clear fucked up massively here, we need to reassure folk that the picture may differ significantly in Scotland and we need Scotgov to assure people living in this type of accommodation that their safety is of utmost priority first and foremost.

      Imo.

    85. K1 says:

      Snap crazycat;-)

    86. Greannach says:

      Proud Cybernat @3.45

      Nothing at all against Ian Blackford, but I would have like to see Joanna Cherry there too.

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breastplate says:14 June, 2017 at 12:48 pm:

      “I’m of the opinion that we hold one whether Westminster agrees or not and if they jump up and down and stamp their feet, well, that’s just a bonus.”

      Now you’re talking, Breastplate.

      As I point out up-thread, the basic Scottish Rule of Law has not really changed in relation to sovereignty since 1320 and the Declaration of Arbroath. What is more that is reflected in the Treaty and in both Acts of Union that is the Birth Certificate of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

      The actual original two kingdoms that signed the treaty, and the two respective acts of union, are still legally the only two partner kingdoms of the United Kingdom and the Westminster Parliament is still legally the parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom. It is not legally the Parliament of the Kingdom nor the country of England yet it operates as if it were.

      That being so, if a majority of the still legally sovereign people of Scotland vote democratically to end the union on the grounds that the union no longer exists as Westminster is now operating as the de facto parliament of the country of England and has split the original union up as four unequal countries with Westminster assuming the role of the master and the others as English dominions then the United Kingdom will disunite and the three country Kingdom of England can sort out their own middens to please themselves.

      What will result is that Westminster will attempt to enforce their assumed sovereignty and will do so first via the English Legal System. Which, of course, Scotland will ignore as Scots law is still legally independent.

      Then Westminster will refer the matter to the, Westminster instigated, Supreme Court which is in fact illegal as there is no longer a United Kingdom and it is a United Kingdom institution in a legally bipartite union that has just ended by one partner leaving.

      We are then in the situation of calling upon the international courts of, for example, the Council of Europe, the EU and the United Nations. Which, of course the now disunited kingdom is signed up to, and all three organisations have written in clauses regarding the human rights of distinct countries to claim the right of self determination.

      This may explain several things, including why the Establishment is so set upon leaving the EU, why the Establishment is so bitterly opposed to indyref2 and why they set up the Supreme Court.

      The are indeed very desperate but that doesn’t mean they have not foreseen how the present movement towards Scottish independence has been gathering strength and momentum through the years. They just haven’t found out any legal way of stopping the momentum.

      Consider this – they claim that the Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland, which has a germ of truth in the claim, but if it has then the formation of the United Kingdom must also have extinguished the Kingdom of England and the United Kingdom only has two equally sovereign partners.

      So that is why they qualify their claim that the Treaty of Union also renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom. There is absolutely no evidence to back up that claim for what sat on 1 May 1707 was NOT the Kingdom of England Parliament it was the United Kingdom Parliament and the only thing that the old Kingdom of England Parliament had in common with the new United Kingdom Parliament was that it sat in the building where the old English Parliament had previously sat.

      The problem for the legally sovereign people of Scotland is that they must first have a democratically voted for majority of the people of Scotland to make it stick. There is absolutely no doubt that the Establishment has always rewritten History.

      Here’s one that is not often mentioned but is very, relevant as it is a historic fact that it was long before the union and thus cannot be legally applied to Scotland. That is the English Kingdom only Magna Carta which is the main basis for the English Rule of Law but the Scottish Rule of Law is based upon the Declaration of Arbroath but Westminster has always assumed that Magna Carta applies to Scotland.

    88. Robert Louis says:

      I just wanted to point out the actual reality of where Scotland is regarding independence, and a referendum.

      At the Scottish Parliamentary election last year, the unionists, especially the Tories ALL campaigned heavily on ‘no referendum’. The unionists lost, and pro indy parties now have the balance of power at the Scottish parliament. Indeed the SNP beat their nearest by more than twice as many seats (63 vs. 31).

      At the Scottish council elections this year, the unionist parties ALL stood on a platform of ‘no referendum’. They lost, and the SNP gained seats now with more councillors than any other party, by a very large margin. In short, the unionists lost.

      At the General election in 2017, all three unionist parties campaigned hard on a policy of no referendum and stopping the SNP. The result was that the SNP have more MP’s in Scotland than all other parties combined.

      You see, at each and every step, three times now, the London based parties have stood on an agenda of ‘NO referendum’, and on each and EVERY OCCASION THEY HAVE COLLECTIVELY LOST.

      It cannot be clearer, the unionist arguments have lost, over and over again.

      But when I switch on the BBC, it is strangely telling me a different story. How odd.

    89. Derick fae Yell says:

      Scottish Building Standards: Fire

      http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00501001.pdf

      Search on “18m” or see tables 2.3 and 2.4

      Basically, in Scotland, new buildings, or existing buildings being refurbished and hence needing a Building Warrant, over 18m tall need a shed load of additional fire protection and fire fighting measures.

      This came about after the fire in a Care Home a few years ago, and was extended to high flats

    90. Derick fae Yell says:

      Since 2004

    91. gus1940 says:

      In recent months the UK has been hit with 4 tragedies – 3 terrorist attacks and today’s tower block fire.

      While not wishing to detract from the personal tragedies in all 4 cases I am disturbed by the fact that every time something similar happens government and the media seem to grind to a halt with the media in particular deluging us with saturation coverage to the exclusion of practically everything else that is going on in the world.

      Have government and the media never heard of multitasking.

      Today’s fire has now been used as an excuse for even further delay in coming to some sort of deal with the monsters of The DUP.

      Meanwhile May continues on her merry way spouting the usual load of mindless platitudes, cliches and buzzwords.

    92. pool9 says:

      That map shows how Conservative domination of the more sparsely populated rural areas of England saves their electoral bacon every time. By population it looks to an eye ball easyily 50/50 Labour to Tory, but of course the constituencies do not appear to be designed evenly by population, or there would be more seats on Tyneside and in Manchester/Liverpool.And that couldn’t possibly do.

    93. schrodingers cat says:

      possibly macart, im just not sure if the bbc would simply ignore them as they do now, i mean, stu has a readership large enough to warrant inclusion but he is ignored universally ?

    94. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Louis @4.20

      Surprisingly,the BBC which was keen too tell us that the SNP and first Minister would be challenged to drop plans for indy ref 2 during a debate today in Holyrood has to been quite so keen to tell us the outcome of said debate:

      The Scottish Government motion on the economy was PASSED by 62: 56 votes at 17.10 this afternoon.

      The Lib Dem amendment FAILED
      The Tory amendment FAILED
      The Labour amendment FAILED
      The Green amendment FAILED

    95. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 14 June, 2017 at 3:21 pm:

      ” … There was no referendum in 1707 Robert and no citizens took part or were even informed of the sale of Scotland and they never even found out about it for some time and then there were protests just in time to be too late.”

      It was worse than that, Dr Jim.

      In the first place it was a totally illegal deal – even back then.

      First of all we must go right back to 1603 and the so called, “Union of the Crowns”. There was no Union of the Crowns in 1603.

      As no Scottish Monarch, since 1320 and the Declaration of Arbroath until the present day, are legally sovereign but are King/Queen of Scots and legally hold the position of, “Defender of the People’s Sovereignty”, and the people have legal right to sack the monarch and appoint another in their stead then James VI could not give away the sovereignty he did not have.

      He could, though, become King of the three country Kingdom of England where he was a sovereign monarch. So in 1603 he was designated as James I & VI. In other words two independent crowns on one person’s head and NO legal United Kingdom.

      Then, in 1688, the English Parliament rebelled against the monarchy of the Kingdom of England and illegally deposed their sovereign monarch who also was the defender of the, still independent, people of the Kingdom of Scotland’s sovereignty.

      Then they had the brass neck to call the Jacobites rebels but you cannot rebel against a monarchy that is not your own. Legally Scotland remained an independent kingdom and that was why there was an English requirement for a Treaty of Union in 1706/7. That Treaty of Union was also illegally forced and English Government troops were slaughtering innocent, non-combatant, civilians at Culloden in 1745 – almost 40 years after the treaty was signed.

      Furthermore, the London Scot who saved the English Parliament from bankruptcy by instigating a scheme to bail out the Parliament/(Crown), and that scheme led to the Bank of England as a private company. This was the same William Paterson who would later be in Scotland setting up the Darrien Expedition and who was an employee of Sir Robert Harley who was the English Spymaster.

      The same William Paterson who was friends with the English Author, and English undercover agent, Daniel Defoe who was also employed by Robert Harley and who was, along with Paterson, operating in Edinburgh and working to get a Treaty of Union signed up by blackmail, coercion, bribery and underhand tactics.

      Not to mention that a Royal Navy battle fleet was lying off the Firth of Forth and English troops were massed at the Scottish/English borders. Even in those days such things were illegal under both Scottish & English law.

    96. Petra says:

      You wonder when this is going to end? Three terrorist attacks and now this horrendous fire. In three of the four incidents the Tories have been ‘negligent’, in one way or another.

      I heard that there’s 4,000 such tower blocks in England (same structure / problem?) and the rush will be on to check them out now. One guy who was questioned, a close neighbour, stated that when the tower block was refurbished last year there was a gap left between the outer wall and the internal cladding? at each corner of the block. He reckoned that this acted as a funnel. If he’s right and there’s a flaw to the design / structure of some / all of these blocks T May / Police should ensure that security personnel are based at each of these blocks 24×7 until such time as they identify the problem. I’m loathe to say it but this is a terrorist dream come true. No need to hire a vehicle, run amok, kill 20 / 30 people and risk their lives. It looks as though all they’d need now is a box of matches and a petrol soaked rag to create another absolute nightmare.

    97. Macart says:

      @schrodingers cat

      True, but how they eplain members of the board of the YES campaign not being included in TV and radio discussion during an indyref would be interesting. Dennis, Blair, Lesley all had their screen time last outing.

      Can’t imagine broadcasters ignoring any new board. If the reconvened official YES campaign are favourable to the idea, they could do worse than invite the likes of Paul Kavanagh, Derek Bateman or the Rev if they felt they could contribute in some fashion.

    98. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      14 June, 2017 at 3:30 pm
      The amusing spectacle is to watch the Tory Tarantino Dozen toddle off to Westminster for a celebration party only to discover it’s a wake!

      A baker’s dozen GB 😀

      Should be interesting to watch every farmer in Gordon and the Buchan coast that kicked out Salmond and Robertson, bleat very loudly for SNP Scots gov to pay the EU subs they’ve been quietly trousering for decades.

      And I hope SNP Scots gov tells them to get tae France.

    99. ChewinTheFat says:

      I know we are supposed to be having a break, but I can’t help at least having a peek at Wings. 🙂 It’s the only thing that keeps me sane in all the madness and chaos that is happening.

      I have been spending some time playing my PS4 though – some Grand Theft Auto V, Game of Thrones: A Telltale Games Series and Until Dawn.
      _____________________

      Sad news about 12 people being killed in the fire in the tower block in London today. Simply unbelievable. Thoughts and prayers are with all those affected. 🙁

    100. Douglas says:

      Re: gus1940 says:
      14 June, 2017 at 4:42 pm

      “While not wishing to detract from the personal tragedies in all 4 cases I am disturbed by the fact that every time something similar happens government and the media seem to grind to a halt with the media in particular deluging us with saturation coverage to the exclusion of practically everything else that is going on in the world.”

      I very much agree. Certainly it is important that extreme events do need to be reported , discussed and analysed, and extended reporting in news programmes should be warranted – however not to the extent of wiping out all scheduled programmes on regular television channels. Surely, if you do want to indulge in extended coverage and in-depth reporting, then change channel to one the 24 hour rolling-news channels. Is that not their raison d’etre?

      If anything, this saturated reporting of shocking and/or distressing news only allows the continuing numbing of the population with a sense of foreboding and fear in their lives.

    101. manandboy says:

      Prime Minister Theresa May said on Tuesday that talks with the DUP had been productive and that Brexit negotiations would begin as planned next week.

      “I think there is a unity of purpose among people in the United Kingdom,” Mrs May said, following a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron in Paris.

      More zombie robot fake speech from the British Prime minister.

      The only unity of purpose I can think of is to see the back of Theresa May and her party of grabalots.

    102. manandboy says:

      I think I could get to like ‘The Grabalots’ as an alternative to The Conservatives. Well they did seem keen on a name change at the start of the election.

    103. colin alexander says:

      @Robert Peffers

      A lot of the Union Treaty concerned “papists”. The monarch and spouse shall not be papists, that sort of thing. That’s been amended, so the monarch’s spouse can be Catholic.

      So the Union is not set in stone. As you point out England never lived up to it’s side of the deal. But that was then. This is now, but cheers anyway.

      Thanks for the feedback and Union Treaty info.

      My idea compared to a Kezia Dugdale idea. I think I prefer being called a tube haha.

    104. crazycat says:

      @ Petra at 5.38

      The Independent is reporting (I haven’t read the whole article) that the external cladding was installed to improve the view for residents of luxury flats opposite.

    105. ChewinTheFat says:

      So… Tim Farron resigns as Leader of the LibDems. Hm.

      With Farron being anti-gay rights etc, it sounds like he would fit right in with the DUP and TM.

    106. Tam the Bam. says:

      Farron resigns.

      Cable or Davey?

    107. Tam the Bam. says:

      @heedtracker…5-45pm

      …get tae France doesn’t cover it.

      GTF more like!!!

    108. ChewinTheFat says:

      @crazycat 6.04

      My goodness! That’s bloody terrible!

      Disgusting.

    109. Petra says:

      @ crazy at at 5:38 pm ……..”External cladding …”

      They’ve been talking about that on the news crazycat. Discussing the issue of external cladding seemingly known to be a fire hazard. I’ll be interested to see if the issue the neighbour mentioned comes to anything as he stated that he was totally taken aback with the ‘design’ of the four corners of the tower block.

      Meanwhile it’s unbearable thinking about it. Kids standing at windows screaming for help, babies being thrown from windows and so on. Absolutely heartbreaking. Worse still to know that this was avoidable.

    110. Legerwood says:

      Did Brian Taylor on Reporting Scotland just repeat that the SNP lost the GE in Scotland?

      Things going on in background so may have misheard but…

    111. euan0709 says:

      Just watched STV News.Is it only me that thinks that Colin Mackay should be working for BBC Shortbread ?
      Slightly O/T. Has anybody seen or hear from The Worlds Finest Pollster…Yes folks Prof John Curtice ?

    112. clipper says:

      Proud Cybernat 12.20

      Excellent post!

      fao Breeks

      Re what you’ve said about broadcasting recently, last thread I kind of long-windedly asked about what might be the best way to start getting a campaign like that up and running?

    113. Tam the Bam. says:

      Why hasn’t Jakey Burd drowned in her own verbal diahorrea?

    114. North chiel says:

      Reporting shortbread ” Queen of sneers” Union Jackie Bird , back to her usual ” hectoring& hissing style during her “interview” with
      new SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford. Trying to imply that referendum funds would be used for Election purposes . How about an in depth investigation Jackie into the London funded unionist organised ( at the very highest level)
      ” dark money” premeditated attack on our country’ s democratic government ( and continued sustained BBC campaign to undermine our legitimate democracy) . ” Pacific Quay” the ” media dictatorship” attempting to overthrow our democratically elected SNP government. ( On the instructions of their BBC London paymasters.).

    115. ChewinTheFat says:

      @Petra 6:48

      Watching Sky News as we speak. A man said when he saw the building burning, it was as though the cladding was made of paper, just burning like it was nothing.

      I think the government have now got a lot to answer for. For this to happen in somewhere like the UK is astonishing. If it was somewhere like China, it can be expected. No health and safety regulations over there.

    116. galamcennalath says:

      I spend too much time with politics going round and round in my head!

      Had a rather simple analysis jump into my mind …

      1) SNP probably lost few votes to the Tories. The Tories did collect most of the BritNat vote with its 30% ceiling. They are highly unlikely to vote for Indy.

      2) There is a chunk of people who are fluid between Labour and the SNP. For WM, they may opt for Labour as the best people to challenge the Tories if the circumstance look as if that’s best. With the Corbyn surge, they went for the Labour option. They are essentially anti Tory. They can be persuaded to for for Indy if the Union looks like a Tory fest.

      3) SNP support faltered. Partly the weather. However we need to accept other things may be at play i.e. Yes-Leavers, and others. They need re-enthusiasing, and I think that means a renewed quest for Indy.

    117. gus1940 says:

      RE the London fire – apart from the tragic loss of life this event is going to set off a major housing crisis.

      Not only are people going to turn down any offer of a place in a high rise thousands of current high rise tenants are going to want out.

      It is being said that there are hundreds if not thousands of such blocks so it is going to be a terrible problem.

    118. Davo says:

      BTW, just got my new UK driving licence today which now has a full colour butcher’s apron on the front. Luckily I have some small stick on saltires which cover it perfectly. Maybe this is one of the DUP concessions?

    119. Lollysmum says:

      @ChewinTheFat
      Thanks for the welcome news of Farron’s resignation.
      I know Brian Paddick resigned today as a shadow minister for Lib Dems citing Farron’s failure to answer questions satisfactorily during GE17 campaign. He said he couldn’t support the leadership any longer.

    120. stu mac says:

      Know it’s not directly relevant but under May as Home Secretary, State Forensic services were farmed out to private companies and one of the results has been this story (ongoing for a few months now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39860639

    121. Abulhaq says:

      If Scots have learned one thing from this GE it is that leaving important things to political parties and their leaders can be a rather bad idea. Should the achieving of independence be left exclusively to the SNP? Definitely not. They don’t own it. If we really want it, really, really want it, we need to get out there and take it. That old ballot box is looking rather worm eaten these days.
      Interestingly Corbyn went to the heart of the matter, by-passing his official party, its sluggish machinery,its lacklustre ideological hang ups and scored rather well.
      Scottish nationalism needs mavericks. ‘Nails’ that stand proud and get attention ought not to be hammered down. ‘Eccentricity may not be a ‘true’ Scottish trait, but by hell we could do with acquiring some of it. This movement needs livening up, desperately.

    122. jfngw says:

      Farron resigns, Cable takes over, Cable wants his limo back.

    123. Rock says:

      From the purring Queen’s speech next week:

      “My government will not allow another divisive independence referendum in Scotland”.

      Will “sovereign” Scots have the spine to defy her Majesty’s government and go ahead with a referendum before Brexit is completed?

    124. ian murray says:

      galamcennalath

      I also believe that Referendum fatigue affected voters.Every single interview of anybody with the exception of the SNP has been a barrage of “SNP referendum that people don’t want” This has been a constant buzz in the ears of all voters it is no wonder some people are sick of the topic.Mainstream media have screwed over the public by mixing devolved with non devolved issues so that Jean & Joe punter can not tell the difference (unlike people who follow politics closely)
      This has been physcological warfare on the people of Scotland and it will continue

    125. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “There is a very simple point that gets missed. If we campaign for independence on a continuous basis and increase support for it (as we should)an Indy referendum becomes a popular idea.”

      Rock (12th June),

      “Nicola wasted months flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      And allowed the unionists to re-group.

      She should have prepared the people of Scotland for independence by stating in very clear terms that the only way for Scotland to be in the EU was by becoming independent.

      Forget about a seat at the Brexit negotiating table.

      Prepare for independence.”

    126. Brian Powell says:

      Abulhaq

      The FM told us she would be putting forward the arguments for Independence, that was overtaken by the election.

      Corbyn lost, and badly in England. His success was about being elected leader of Labour, he hasn’t done anything or proven himself. If he was going to shine he has had 40yrs to do it.

      He has no plan for Brexit or for getting rid of the Tories.

      Sturgeon had a plan for Brexit before it happened and after the vote. She won elections on the basis of the manifestos. |she has proven European and international connections. She is the one the EU want to represent Scotland at the negotiations.

      But if you and others can’t stay focused, good luck as Scotland gets stuck with England and back on the creaking, rusty Westminster seesaw.

    127. Rock says:

      With 56 SNP MPs out of 59, we missed an opportunity we had not had in 310 years.

      Instead of voting down the Scotland Act, the broken vow, returning home after EVEL and causing a constitutional crisis, we continued to play nicely nicely.

      Will we ever learn?

      You cannot play nicely nicely with the British establishment.

      With a weak Tory government, this is our final opportunity, before they call another snap election and take more seats from the SNP.

      Make it absolutely clear immediately after the queen’s speech that there will be an independence referendum, on our terms, when we want one.

      Or admit once and for all that Scots are not “sovereign”.

    128. heedtracker says:

      Tam the Bam. says:
      14 June, 2017 at 6:45 pm
      @heedtracker…5-45pm

      …get tae France doesn’t cover it.

      GTF more like!!!

      Get tae fudge.

      Its a huge rich area of farmland and if they start demanding Scots gov replace their lost EU subs…well ofcourse they will, they’re tories.

      The big barley basket for whisky country too. So you’ve got all the wealthy tory whisky management living the high tory life in Keith, Forres etc, who were the forefront anti independence campers too.

      Do the britnats of the Scotland region still wet their nickers when they scope anyone YES wondering out loud where all the whisky tax goes?

      Bigger fish to fry, now that the tories have First Minister Ruth Davidson at the helm.

      At the very least, you cant fault UKOK hackdom for relentlessly exceeding all UKOK propaganda expectations, year in year, out.

      Last month it was BBC Scotland shrieking, TORIES won the COUNCIL ELECTIONS in Scotland. Now sane beeb Scotland gimps screaming even louder, TORIES won the GENERAL ELECTION in Scotland. Its never been this bad tory UKOK propaganda wise in Scotland.

    129. Abulhaq says:

      The late A A Gill once quipped that he would be a Scottish nationalist except for the fact that it was so boring. We have a cause that should inspire and excite, we seem to have turned into a big yawn. People may not be sick of independence just tired and uninispired by the way it’s presented.

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Ooops it’s back again.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMRl55U0eDw

    131. yesindyref2 says:

      @Abulhaq
      Good point. It’s become aggressive and yes, quite boring.

      Let the fun times roll again!

    132. heedtracker says:

      Or admit once and for all that Scots are not “sovereign”.

      OK Rock, I admit once and for all that Scots are not “sovereign”.

      Happy now you pain in the arse?

      Still Never once seen you on WoS say anything even remotely positive about anything or anyone SNP.

      Must be against UKOK troll central training, gross breach , misconduct etc

    133. Fred says:

      Jakie Burd apparently earns £200K to undermine

      Jakey Burd apparently gets £200K for telling lies about Scotland, she’s earned her corn this election.

      WTF are we doing cladding buildings with plastic?

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, let me see.

      “Independence – the cartoon”
      “Wacky Indies” We all know who Penelope Pitstop will be.
      “Indies and yoonies” no, that’s too insulting
      “The magic roondaboot”
      “Wallace and Fuckit [let’s just do it]”
      “The Flinthearts”
      “Scoobie do do do vote YES”

      Any more for any more?

    135. Abulhaq says:

      @Brian Powell
      The SNP is now politically marginalised. Whatever were Sturgeon’s intentions prior to the GE they are now of little consequence. We are in a new ‘dispensation’. Maybe we need new ideas, new strategy, new faces, new party. The only cause deserving of our loyalty is that of freeing Scotland from this miserable union.

    136. Glamaig says:

      Abulhaq says:
      14 June, 2017 at 8:19 pm
      ‘People may not be sick of independence just tired and uninispired by the way it’s presented.’

      If people are sick of independence that’s not surprising, they’ve been subjected to Willie Rennie etc ‘no to a second independence referendum’ played on a loop 24/7 for months.

    137. Abulhaq says:

      @Rock
      Those 56 of blessed memory were playing according to Westminster rules. Mhairi Black showed the way things might have been, but the SNP stopped that. The system regards us as rebels, subversives, troublemakers and a threat, we might at least act the part!

    138. ScottieDog says:

      Fascinating times indeed.
      The Brits are very good at propaganda. I guess they’ve been doing it for long enough.

      The ‘shock and awe’ phenomenon seems to have been excercised to good effect at this election. In the immediate aftermath of the GE, I noticed that there was a huge effort piled into denouncing indyref. The auto suggestIve remarks about ‘Tory win, SNP loss, no matter how ridiculous were just repeated time and again to drive it into the physche whilst we were in mild shock. A pretty good tactic which tends to illicit over the top reaction.

      I’ve learned so much over the past few years about media, propaganda tactics etc yet mr corbyn seemed to confound this. I believe he took lessons from the YES campaign!

    139. velofello says:

      I attended an Indyref meeting hosted by Ian Blackford, had a few words with him. Pleasant and astute.I doubt that T May will understand his line of questioning.

    140. jfngw says:

      Anyone that thinks Jackie Bird controls the editorial policy of BBC Scotland news is sorely misinformed about how the BBC is organised. It is the head of news and the editor that guides the programme, the presenters are merely the mouthpiece. The direction of any interview is being guided by the gallery, who are pushing the questions direction to her.

      The rest is coming from an autocue written by journalists in the newsroom, the only unscripted bit is probably the handover to the weather. Aiming your disgruntlement at the presenter is a bit like blaming the person at the jobcentre for DWP policies.

    141. McDuff says:

      Abulhag

      Exactly.

    142. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ChewinTheFat @ 19:19,

      We’re on our way to becoming like China.

      I was looking up a health and safety report the other day, as it happens, and the infringements found by a particular inspection were all listed, with the relevant regulation being breached quoted in each instance. Chapter and verse.

      All EU regulations. (For uniformity of safety standards across the EU. That’s the so-called red tape. To prevent a “race to the bottom”, corners being cut in order to get an advantageby risking customers/workers. You and me, that is.)

      In a couple of years, all gone. All having to be replaced – or not – by the very same people who gave us this latest piece of avoidance.

      That’s what the EU is about, protecting us against dangerous corner-cutting, though most people even now still don’t have a clue.

    143. Shinty says:

      “My government will not allow another divisive independence referendum in Scotland”.

      And you, will have to remember your place, Elizabeth Queen of Scots.

      Guess that’s me off to the tower!

    144. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You may have no words for this @ Derick fae Yell says at 12:47 pm

      I do……..

      COMPLICIT

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3e-aYUusc

      Never forget this is what “profit before people” results in.

      A glimpse at what a Brexit which sees the roll back of Legislation and Standards will result in?

    145. Rock says:

      heedtracker,

      “Still Never once seen you on WoS say anything even remotely positive about anything or anyone SNP.”

      Rock (11th October 2015, and many, many times since then),

      “We won’t get a second referendum for a generation unless the SNP gets a massive share of the vote.

      Stick to just one mantra: always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.”

    146. Rock says:

      Shinty,

      “And you, will have to remember your place, Elizabeth Queen of Scots.”

      If only loud-mouthed “sovereign” Scots had a spine.

    147. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      euan0709 @ 18:54,

      Good question. Prof. Curtice was due to give a public lecture at Glasgow Uni on the evening of the 13th (ie. last night). Part of the Stevenson Trust lecture series. He is usually very interesting and listenable, delivered in his familiar deadpan style. But for indifferent health. I would have probably attended and posted an outline here.

      But oddly, the event isn’t listed on their current “news” web page:

      http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/politics/stevensontrust/newsandevents/

      Don’t know whether that’s just because it’s so recent or if it has been postponed, or what…

    148. Shinty says:

      Douglas – If anything, this saturated reporting of shocking and/or distressing news only allows the continuing numbing of the population with a sense of foreboding and fear in their lives.

      Couldn’t agree more.

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, my first ever posting on the Mail, and it’s already got 14 thumbs down. Yay, this could be a record!

    150. Tam the Bam. says:

      Abdulhaq……

    151. cearc says:

      yesindyref2,

      No sewers down your way for a nice swim?

      Keep up the good work.

    152. Faltdubh says:

      Pretty happy with my namesakes as leaders’ of the SNP at Westminister e.g. Dubh/black.

      I am undecided as to if the Tories will last the full five years. I have no doubts that they will secure a deal with the DUP in the next few days/week and they will be the government ; but due to the numbers of the parliament and their minority status, I think there will be lots and lots of problems e.g.

      DUP – they do not want a hard border. Lots of farmers, jobs and the northern Irish economy relies on the movement between the island of Ireland.

      Hard-Brexit Tory MPs – I don’t know the exact numbers, but if a concession to the DUP/EU is remaining in the customs union, free market and free movement of people then many of them will no doubt be angry. How many almost Kipper Tory MPs are there?

      Neo-Liberal Tories – and the exact opposite if the Tories somehow still try and go for a hard Brexit. Then you’d imagine not just the DUP supply and confidence agreement would end ; but the pro-EU types like Soubry etc will call for a vote of no confidence.

      Scots Tories – they’ll no doubt follow their masters; but Ruth is making noises about the homophobic elements of the DUP.

      The EU – May has said she plans to go to the Brexit talks with the same ideas as before the election. How will this work?

      If the Tories had a political genius in charge of them, they may well have found a way to work their way bit-by-bit around the fixed term and remain in government for five years ; but they don’t. They have a leader who with a 25% lead somehow blundered her way in to actually losing seats and her majority. She is not smart enough to survive this.

      And when it comes to the Brexit deal/discussion. You could have the many wings of the Tory party all fighting with each other as to what form of it they want. Some may want to ditch her and even accept that Labour will most likely win and call for an early election.

      I am not ruling anything out, and whilst I believe she’ll at least get 4 months. So much will depend on the Brexit talks; but she’s in a terrible and weak position everywhere you look that I would not rule out there being an election as early as September.

      As for the SNP. The summer recess can’t come quick enough. We need to recharge and run over the campaign. I think we do have issues though – some calling for us to go further left-socialist yet ; and some suggested centrist/small business minded to win back the NE voters. Both are huge gambles, and if the SNP decided to go down one route they could lose seats both ways – maybe those Tories are not coming back and if Corbyn is in power and polling well if there is another GE very soon then maybe those very thin majorities could go too.

      So much going on. We must not give up though. We have a triple lock – won Holyrood, council and now Westminster elections on the right of having another referendum. I doubt she would do it but can you imagine if May needed her budget passed in a year’s time or so and offered the SNP Indyref2 in exchange for having it? Haha, probably not ; but it would set of a series of events.

      These past few years have shown that we cannot really predict anything ; although I would hope the SNP being a major political party is planning for all eventualities that will and could happen.

    153. JET Jockey says:

      Many comments indicate that all famers are Tory, this not really true. Four ex Scottish NFU presidents, John Cameron John Ross John Kinnaird Jim Walker farming several thousand acres between them, supported the 2014 referendum and indeed paraded in Glasgow, for some reason the Media ignored them, I have never seen any of them interviewed or on any political programme, why??
      This is the control the Westminster Establishment has over the main stream Media, many people are now more aware of what goes on thanks to WOS. Thanks Stu.

    154. Lenny Hartley says:

      Tim Farron quits saying his strong religious beliefs are at odds with being a Political Leader.
      code for he is more suited to be in the DUP.

    155. cearc says:

      ‘— “There are two kinds of European nations. There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realized they are small nations,” Danish Finance Minister Kristian Jensen said at a conference in Copenhagen called “Road to Brexit.” Britain’s ambassador to Denmark, Dominic Schroeder, was not impressed, saying he saw no indications “of a diminished or diminishing power.”

    156. K1 says:

      Petra, crazycat, this is the Independent article you are both referring to. It is actually cited n the planning documents that the appeanrce is a big factor in choosing the cladding in terms of the neighbouring properties, as well as the points you raised about the cladding itself.

      Criminal prosecutions should follow this completely avoidable horror that has taken place today. From Westminster all the way down the chain, there is culpability.

      http://archive.is/9WDkF

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      @cearc
      -26. But BJ B beats me a long way at -65. Sob!

    158. Bob Mack says:

      Perhaps the word National in SNP could be deleted and the SNP becomes the Scottish Party. I think the National creates ideas of extremes with non Scots which though far from the truth, still has the usability factor for our opponents to make mischief with the concept.

      How often have you all had to explain the difference?

    159. Glamaig says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      14 June, 2017 at 10:37 pm
      @cearc
      -26. But BJ B beats me a long way at -65. Sob!

      Sounds fun! Think I’ll give it a go, Im getting bored with HYS, I never get more than about -6!

    160. heedtracker says:

      JET Jockey says:
      14 June, 2017 at 10:21 pm
      Many comments indicate that all famers are Tory, this not really true.

      Is it fair to say that most are and the richer are they are, the more tory they get?

      Their fields in Salmonds ex constituency in particular, had loads of vote NO Thanks 2 years ago billboards, and they were full of vote tory ones, last month or so.

      The idea that they should now come to the Scottish government and demand their EU subs, is just awful but they will.

      Most tory farmers are ofcourse loaded thanks to the EU and couldn’t give a pair of First Minster Ruth Davidson’s union jack bloomers for any SNP policies that favour the worst off in Scotland.

      But they do care about the EU subsidies and they are going to start nipping SNP Scots gov heeds about quite soon, just on the principle that as business men, farmers need to plan.

      So nip nip Mr Farmer. I have a mate who’s been teaching ten years and she says its often extremely upsetting to see children coming to school malnourished, in fucking Scotland. Then teachers have to contend with autistic children in their classes that need far more specialised care and teaching. There’s no money for any more. Its a double whammy of shite basically.

      Imagine rich tory farmers booting out the SNP and voting tory, in a rich country like Scotland, with malnourished school children.

      But the shites that voted tory will be at Holyrood’s door, via BBC Scotland gimpery, neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal etc, lots of BBC Scotland news with a big bloated funny looking guy like Toodleooo the noo Brian, all demanding the vile SNP give rich farmers their Brexit dosh now.

    161. TJenny says:

      Philip Sim, BBC ‘Jeremy Corbyn picks newly-elected Fife MP Lesley Laird as his shadow Scottish Secretary’.

      That should wipe the smugness from Ian’s wee face, 🙂

    162. K1 says:

      If the ‘rumour’ is true that Farron has resigned cause the high heidnyins in the Libdems are thinking of doing a deal wi the Tories I would not be at all surprised.

      He’s claiming it’s because of his Christianity, but did he not put that to bed in the debate (stitch up of FM) programme wi Nick Robertson saying he had no conflict with his personal and political views and wa able to separate those two sets of values? Something’s afoot. I rather think he would have to go, to get rid of the ‘second EU ref’ aspect of his whole pitch at the GE, this allows them to move into position.

    163. Lenny Hartley says:

      Don’t know if this has been linked to before, if it has apologies, would like to say I agree with it entirely.
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/06/snp-must-sell-radical-vision-not-just-managerial-competence/

    164. BBC Scotland tells Lies says:

      Tomorrow’s National front page;

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCTxDCkW0AAQCgP.jpg

    165. Ken MacColl says:

      With Farron’s resignation as LibDem Leader because of problems he encountered with his religious beliefs and his party’s political stance surely the obvious choice as his successor is Alistair Carmichael. The MP for Orkney & Shetland is an accomplished,acknowledged and proven master of mendacity and would have none of his colleagues problems with questions of conscience or belief.

    166. Cactus says:

      All this union party talk about taking our indyref2 off the table.. bolt ya rockets!

      Any country which finds itself within a disintegrating political union, should always reserve the right and have the option of an indy ref to hand and in place for use, as and when necessary.

      To not have the order in place would be irresponsible and damaging to the future well-being of its citizens, should an indy ref need to be called due to any emergency issues arising from within certain parts of said disintegrating political union.

      The FM is being responsible with indyref2 remaining on the table (and the associated democratic order in place) for Scotland.

      Indyref2 will remain on the table, until such time that it be required for implementation.

      Next bus will be along soon.

    167. pool9 says:

      Heedtracker @ 10.43pm

      And the Scots Government can direct them to their local friendly Westminster representative and explain that post Brexit Westminster will be choosing to retain power over agricultural policy, so the Scottish Government cannot unfortunately help them.

      i.e. “Go cap in hand to your real masters, and see how much they really care about you.”

      (This is of course assuming that Westminster does not devolve power over fisheries and Agriculture to the Scottish Government. Or at least does not do so in such a way as to try to make it a poison chalice, like rolling it into a Barnett Consequential model etc.)

    168. Patrician says:

      Only heard this mentioned in passing on the News programmes over the last couple of days but the impact of it will be huge:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40264755

      The UK is going to be given a very hard lesson about what it means to have a mono-culture economy. This is being hidden out of sight as they don’t want to spook the natives because this will be the real reason why, if it happens, there will be a soft brexit. Too many rich people with too much to lose.

    169. Cactus says:

      When did any of you gamers last play…

      This post is about Resident Evil 1:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8jhjJAYEPQ

      Wherz Barry..?
      Wherz Jill?
      Wherz Wesker?

      All good games have true maps.

    170. Hamish100 says:

      Davidson Cameron May Osborne

      Austerity in the public sector is necessary. Must balance the books

      https://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2016/11/22/public-not-safe-under-further-austerity-cuts-say-firefighters-union

      Watch them hide.

    171. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Patrician @ 23:51,

      Yes, some of us have been saying this is the real motive behind the resistance to a hard Brexit all along. Maybe even why Mayhem was persuaded to go to the country?

      But the last laugh goes to the EU. Why should they wait patiently all this time just to have their own currency trading held ransom by London in the upcoming exit talks?

      This is the real exercise of power. It isn’t intentional, but the side effect is to demonstrate who’s boss. (Not London.)

      This is why I said right after the EUref result, and continue to maintain, that Brexit is BritNat Suez Mk.2. Lingering imperial pretensions shown to be puffed-up self-delusion by the real powers of the world.

      Can’t say I’m in the least sorry about this. A suitable puncturing of the British Balloon has been long overdue.

    172. Robert Peffers says:

      @colin alexander says: 14 June, 2017 at 5:59 pm:

      “A lot of the Union Treaty concerned “papists”. The monarch and spouse shall not be papists, that sort of thing. That’s been amended, so the monarch’s spouse can be Catholic.”

      As we say in Scotland, Colin –

      Aye!
      Richt!

      You really need to stand back a bit and look at the bigger picture.

      The entire history of Britain since ever there has been recorded history is a story of an elite ruling class using, mainly, religion to divide and conquer. First we had the Romans, (first people to write down British history). As in the rest of the Roman Empire the Romans set about Romanising the former leaders of the many British Tribes.

      This was how Rome built a great empire. As things still stand today, the Romans set up tax systems that included Customs & Excise Duty. They levied tax on all imports and exports and began the task of stripping Britons of their natural resources. They also dealt in slaves but basically they had the former Briton leaders run things for Rome.

      The Romans never did subdue and conquer the northern Britons but their main idea of building walls around the Roman Empire frontiers was to prevent smuggling as that was the way Rome stripped their vanquished peoples of their resources.

      The Gask Ridge & Gask Road were the beginnings of the wall building. The Gask was extended across Scotland as The Antoine Wall before Hadrian built his wall across north Britain further south. A typical divide & conquer tactic. They turned the North Britons into the bogyman that helped them control the south Britons. You will note there has never been a time since WWII that the UK has not been at war with someone or other.

      When the Romans left the South Britons invited the first batch of Germanic Tribes to come and protect them. For after centuries of Roman Legionnaires no South Britons had a clue of how to protect themselves. So again the Angles, Jutes, Saxons, et al were using divide and conquer – North against south.

      Fact is that the Germanic tribes did not come from what is modern Germany but further North in what is now Scandinavia. These included the Vikings Norsemen and the Normans. Norman is a corruption of, “Norseman”, and that particular faction had settled in that part of continental Europe we now call Normandy in much the same way as their other Germanic tribes had been invited to Britain.

      The Norman descendants gave us the feudal system and some of their descendants still sit in the House of Lords as Hereditary Peers till this day. Not to mention that the actual family name of the British Royal Family is NOT Windsor – It is the German name Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, but even that does not tell the whole story as Saxe-Coburg and Gotha is part of another aristocratic German family – called “Wettin”.

      So all that religious stuff, when the former British Royals found themselves edged out by the Catholic Stewarts, was just a front to push out the Stewarts.

      Remember that James VI’s inheritance of the crown of England came about from a royal marriage of convenience around a hundred years earlier that was then supposed to win for England the Scottish crown. The ploy backfired as, only by Scots law changing. (by the Declaration of Arbroath), to the monarch not being sovereign did England avoid becoming part of James VI’s Kingdom of Scotland.

      If James had been legally sovereign in Scotland when he inherited the English crown then under the English law of Divine Right, James would have automatically just absorbed the three country Kingdom of England as parts of his Scottish Kingdom.

      In 1603 the Kingdom of England was still under the rule of Law of Divine Right of Kings. They only became a Constitutional Monarchy in 1688 when the English Parliament rebelled against their current Stewart monarch and deposed the Stewarts and imported King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange in their stead.

      Hence the Catholic vs Protestant sectarianism ever since. It was just an excuse to gain power and history is actually now beginning to once again use religious sectarianism to once more attempt to divide and conquer. It won’t work this time and I expect not to see Theresa May serve out a full statutory term of office.

      “So the Union is not set in stone.”

      Well actually it legally is but the Westminster Establishment has long ago flaunted the actual terms of the treaty and only got away with it by not being challenged as the English based political parties in Scotland were as much a part of the Establishment as is Queen of England Elizabeth II of England.

      Fact is that the basic reason Westminster has got away with it for so long is the very same reason that they will soon no longer get away with it.

      The legal fact is that because the people of Scotland are legally sovereign in Scottish Law, (and not either the Royal Monarchy of England or their delegated sovereign Westminster Parliament), it requires a democratic majority of people of Scotland to exercise their legally sovereign powers.

      Why else do you imagine there has to be several political parties in England and they are all unionist parties?

      It is because they really are all parts of, “The Establishment”. Some Scots have not quite put 2 and 2 together yet and just claim they are blue, red and yellow Tories.

      Truth is they are all members of the Establishment and, with the exception of those who become cabinet ministers, they opposition parties and the remainder of the party in power are on the same income and expenses as each other.

      It’s a case of Buggin’s Turn – it doesn’t really matter which party is in powered the rank and file members all get the same income.

    173. Chick McGregor says:

      Surely the ability of Sinn Fein to nullify the DUP vote, simply by taking their seats, puts them in just as strong a negotiating position with the Tories as the DUP.

      Maybe Farron’s departure will result in suicide pact2 for the LibDems.

    174. Stoker says:

      jfngw wrote on 14 June, 2017 at 8:56 pm

      “Anyone that thinks Jackie Bird controls the editorial policy of BBC Scotland news is sorely misinformed about how the BBC is organised. It is the head of news and the editor that guides the programme, the presenters are merely the mouthpiece. The direction of any interview is being guided by the gallery, who are pushing the questions direction to her.

      The rest is coming from an autocue written by journalists in the newsroom, the only unscripted bit is probably the handover to the weather. Aiming your disgruntlement at the presenter is a bit like blaming the person at the jobcentre for DWP policies.”

      Aye, right! That stinks of the old we were just following orders routine. Nope! Sorry! Can’t agree with that reasoning. It’s their career choice. Fucked if i’d ever sit there night after night spouting someone elses lies and deception about my country, no-matter how much money they offered me.

      BBC presenters believe in the tripe they unquestionably preach every day of their stinking sorry existences. They make a damn good living out of it. Some of them even own more than one property when the people they’re lying to and deceiving are struggling to hold on to the one roof over their heads.

      Meanwhile, here’s the latest from those who know what they’re talking about:

      Brian Taylor ridiculed after openly lying on TV
      https://informscotland.com/bbc-scotland-reporter-ridiculed-ruth-davidson-won-election/

      BBC Scotland – Unaccountable and out of control
      http://indyref2.scot/unaccountable-and-out-of-control#comment-57029

    175. Al Dossary says:

      I feel dirty, very dirty – just been on the BBC and the daily mail websites looking for information on the Grenfell tower fire.

      The BBC reporting is to be brutally honest atrocious, yet the Mail us categorically stating that the chief cause of the rspid spread was the recently instaled cladding. Dozens of people have died because they tried to make a building “look nicer”.

      Heads need to roll and people need to be jailed. Especially the Tory bastards who sat on the report of the previous incident and did nothing. Especially the Tory MP’S who voted down the Landlords bill last year. Especially the fuck wits who designed, approved and installed the cladding and insulation system.

      Ignorance is not a defence in law (unless it seems you are a Tory returning officer) and to say we followed “all required regulations” quite frankly should not cut it here.

      Flammable cladding and flammable UPVC window frames. Not a good mix! Fire in house, spreads to window frame which spreads to cladding outside. Perhaps entirely preventable had a sprinkler system been fitted or a fire extinguisher available.

      And similar works have been carried out on tower blocks all over the country – there must be tens of thousands of residents in Scotland alone extremely worried about their own safety now. They live in recently refurbished tower blocks with lovely outside cladding and one central staircase for emergency exit.

      There must be terrorists in awe at what could be achieved with nothing more than a couple of bottles of petrol and a few matches.

      And finally one commonality between the Grenfell fire and Piper Alpha. The standing order in an emergency was to “stay put and wait for rescue”. Most of the dead on Piper followed instructions to wait in the accommodation till the rescue chopper came. They reckon these guys wete still alive when the accommodation slipped into the sea. Those who survived took their chances.

    176. K1 says:

      Al, crazycat and I posted earlier on up thread, it’s no comfort in terms of what has taken place, but please note it’s looking very much like Scotland has taken a different path, nevertheless worth repeating as this differnce may well not have been widely reported elsewhere:

      K1 says:
      14 June, 2017 at 3:57 pm
      Top fire safety officials are discussing the ‘stay put’ policy in high rise buildings that have been in place since the 50’s. The refurbishments are actively being described as a major factor in the spread of this fire and may well affect any refurbished high rises in recent years. It’s on record that during the Grenfell refurb the ‘safety stops’ were removed temporarily whilst new heating pipes where being fitted, it is not clear whether these stops where re installed. A lot of the high rise refurbed buildings have not had sprinkler systems put in.

      In relation to sprinkler systems a ‘former Tory housing minister warned MP’s against beefing up fire safety regulations, because it could discourage house building’, this from the guardian live coverage. Further: It says the coroner’s report into the 2009 blaze in Camberwell called for developers refurbishing high-rise blocks to be encouraged to install sprinkler systems.

      Why am I going into this kind of detail on Wings?

      Because there is a Scotland context, we too have high rise flats that have been refurbished in recent times, and people who live in high rises around Scotland need to see that we have put sprinklers into our high rises, again from Guardian live coverage:

      ‘Mike Tobin, the technical director of Security and Fire Experts Ltd in Bury, Greater Manchester, said: “As a rule, the Stay Put policy works but I think this is such a tragic incident there’s so many potential issues that make it a one-off”

      Tobin said the ‘Stay put’ policy was the long and short of advice to residents in tower blocks and that it was for someone “far higher than my pay grade” to decide whether it should be reviewed.

      He described the inferno as a game-changer for the fire safety industry. “I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “This will change our industry whether we like it or not. There’s too many deaths for it to go without something coming out of it – they might look at what Scotland is doing, putting sprinklers in all new communal buildings but that would not have stopped this fire.”

      A senior firefighter in the north-west of England, who did not want to be named, said he had never seen anything like in his 32 years in the fire service. He said it was so “out of the ordinary and as yet not understood”. “Conventional wisdom may not fit this scenario,” he said.’

      It would still be worthwhile for any tenants in recently refurbed high rise blocks to contact their various housing agencies to establish the veracity of this for their block? Get peace of mind folks.

      They’ve, the UK Government, developers and fire safety clear fucked up massively here, we need to reassure folk that the picture may differ significantly in Scotland and we need Scotgov to assure people living in this type of accommodation that their safety is of utmost priority first and foremost.

      Imo.

    177. Al Dossary says:

      “Out of the ordinary and not yet understood”. As was the Bradford fire disaster and Kings Cross. The Bradford fire for example engulfed the entire stand in 4 minutes from the first signing of flame. Sad fact is that until the is a major loss of life, society trundles on blissfully unaware that there are issues.

      Yet seems that there have been several incidents around the world – Australia and Dubai spring to mind. The warning signs have been there but were not heeded.

    178. cearc says:

      To me the out standing thing, when looking at the cladding diagrams, is the GAP.

      If there was no gap between the insulation panels and the exterior panels the fire couldn’t spread like that. The gap creates a blast furnace effect where unlimited amounts of air can be sucked in to feed the fire.

      Without airflow the insulation can’t burn out of control like that.

    179. Fred says:

      Ian Blackford looks a good choice to replace Angus Robertson, he played a prominent part in the Lochaber smelter deal which was threatened with closure but with new investment has a bright future & jobs for Fort William.

      Has a sense of humour, he’ll need it!

      @ Al Dossary, good posts!

    180. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: Good morning. It’s a wet day here, the flowers are loving it! 🙂 Thank you for your links.
      Kettle’s on! Peace Always.

    181. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe. Good to see you here.

      A few more for later. Last one is worth watching.

      http://www.euractiv.com/section/banking-union/news/eu-seeks-post-brexit-powers-over-london-euro-clearing/

      Tax evaders exposed: why the super rich are even richer than we thought
      http://archive.is/MP7ST

      https://aeon.co/videos/free-speech-is-vital-to-human-flourishing-but-it-s-in-a-decade-long-slump

    182. gerry parker says:

      Unsurprising that the STV report on Guy Verhofstadt’s comment that there would be a door back into the EU cut of just before he continued to say ” but it will be a different door……”

    183. Baldeagle58 says:

      Good Morning Nana.

      Thanks for your links. Informative as usual, and go well with a morning coffee! 🙂

    184. Nana says:

      You are welcome Baldeagle58. You might need a pot of coffee to get through them all though!

      Have a good day and try and catch some sunshine.

    185. Tinto Chiel says:

      K1: I thought it was just my suspicious mind that wondered if Farron had resigned because of a possible Fibdem deal with the Tories but then I thought, “They wouldn’t be so stupid again?” Also, the Tories wouldn’t be doing their dangerous dance with the DUP if they thought a coalition with Carmichael et al were possible, would they? Mind you, ministerial cards seem very attractive to some. Might be a back up plan…..

      Alan Bisset’s rage against our corrupt media is so good I’m going to repeat Nana’s link to it, in case anyone missed it:

      https://twitter.com/patronsaintofca/status/875131444670201858

    186. Tinto Chiel says:

      CARS, not cards.

      Zut alors!

    187. Nana says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Alan Bisset made a comment on the ‘Build it and they will come’ article [Bella]

      That quote is part of his comment, the rest of his comment is worth reading also.

    188. Nana says:

      Bad grammar Nana, slap on wrist. Too many ‘comments’ not enough thought.

      @Tinto Chiel

      Have you been watching House of cards by any chance? Well we are meant to be having a break, lol

    189. Nana says:

      Those saying that the #GrenfellTower fire had nothing to do with politics need to see this clip
      Video here
      https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/875070851338698753

      David Lammy speaking about the Grenfell Tower fire on the Today Programme
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZmzOljnAL0

    190. Tinto Chiel says:

      Started watching the new series down at my daughter’s (Netflix or sumfink) but I think they’re overdoing the diabolical bit.

      Going back to tree-hugging.

      Or mebbes Cactus and I will form a supergroup.

      As Max Miller used to say,”You lucky people!”

    191. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Yes, I saw Mr Bisset’s comments. More and more these days our politics reminds me of this quotation of Martin Niemoller’s.

      “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak for me.”

      If the Scottish electorate aren’t careful, through our own negligence and apathy, there will be no one left to speak for us.

    192. Breeks says:

      I am not alarmed by “apparent” high water mark rhetoric demanding IndyRef be taken off the table. Be relaxed people, just not complacent.

      Theresa May has been dancing all around the houses trying to put off and delay Brexit negotiations, but she has almost run out of time. Far from a high water mark in Unionism, the reality is a high pressure steam whistle as Theresa May and her stroppy corporal have thrown everything they’ve got into smashing the SNP and the imminent likelihood of Independence, because without that happy family of unity, the Brexit negotiations are going to infinitely more difficult. She has failed.

      She will not be able to put any bargains on the table without caveats about whether the deal includes Scotland, or excludes Scotland, and that distinction won’t be her decision to make. She won’t be able to do any stitch up deals behind closed doors, because there won’t be any doors that are closed.

      But the biggest lie, the biggest cynicism, is that Theresa May is going to be negotiating anything. The UK has decided to leave the club, and demands now to negotiate whether it leaves by the elevator, the stairs, or the fire escape. The club management couldn’t care less. They are glad to be rid of a troublemaker, but want to make sure your bar bill paid before you leave, and that’s pretty much the extent of their negotiating aspirations.

      To push the same metaphor, it is England which is leaving under a cloud of its own obnoxious creation. Scotland wants to stay in the club, and doesn’t appreciate being told to “finish your drink and get in the car Scotland”.

      We are at a watershed moment which the media is simply airbrushing. Until now, Theresa May has been banking on starting Brexit negotiations as a unified single nation. One flag for all. Dream on Theresa. She has failed in that objective, and has almost run out of time.

      She did not want her Brexit negotiations overshadowed by constitutional issues with Scotland, but she has got them. And worse, from her point of view, rather than dealing from the top of the deck with Nicola Sturgeon, she chose to deal from the bottom, and seek to undermine and destroy Scotland’s roll, and Scotland’s contingency escape from Brexit through Independence. I hope Nicola Sturgeon now politically skewers May because of it.

      Theresa May will begin her negotiations hamstrung and weak, with a partner’s interest in the negotiations she didn’t want, because she knows full well that what Scotland wants from these negotiations is entirely different from what she wants, but the omens suggest the EU will be open an accommodating towards what Scotland wants, but sullen and indifferent towards what May wants.

      So Scotland, do not believe the media narrative that ScotRef is dead in the water. It absolutely is not, and that is going to become clearer and clearer as the Brexit negotiations progress.

      For the moment we need the patience to let events unfold for a while, and let the Tory and BBC’s claptrap unravel. We should be patient and confident that the mood of the country now will not be the mood of the country a few months from now, and as the full impact of Brexit is revealed. There might well be traction for arguing there is lesser appetite for “yet another” referendum at the moment, but we must trust that that will change, and when the time comes, Scotland will be tremendously relieved that we have an Brexit escape clause in ScotRef.

      The one aspect where I would caution AGAINST patience is Broadcasting. Broadcasting is a matter we should have grabbed by the horns a long time ago. It strengthens and emboldens Unionism by an enqual and opposite measure to the way it weakens and silences us. The BBC is about to persuade the UK that Brexit isn’t a disaster but a progressive opportunity. Whether they can pull that narrative off remains to be seen, but Scottish independence needs more truth than we will ever get from the BBC. We need rational, objective and apolitical broadcast news, but at the moment, without our own broadcasting network, it looks like we won’t get it.

    193. Nana says:

      @Macart Exactly so

      “If the Scottish electorate aren’t careful, through our own negligence and apathy, there will be no one left to speak for us.”

      The need to tackle this propaganda is becoming more and more urgent with each passing day, how to do it is the question.

      We tried the billboards to informScotland website, perhaps now we should think about a more hard hitting campaign. Each billboard costs £1,000 if I remember rightly.

      A ‘face’ to lead an anti bbc tax campaign would be good but will anyone come forward. Asking for help from the EU? I don’t know if Alyn Smith has already looked into that.

      I’m tearing my hair out as to why on earth our government are not standing up against it and then I see when they do get air time they are cut off [technical difficulties] as we have all witnessed so how do we/they get the message out.

    194. Song42 says:

      Robert Peffers 10.38am
      ‘I have to agree with them, it is getting very close to the time for picking it up from the table and sticking it right up the Westminster Establishments collective nose.’

      Couldn’t agree with more Robert!

    195. Song42 says:

      Thank you for ALL the links again @Nana, I’ll be lucky to get through them all today 🙂
      Yer a beautiful god send – and all other links of course, you’ve made my morning. Moran taing..

    196. Nana says:

      Guy Verhofstadt says

      If Britain changes its mind, it will find an open door. But like in Alice in Wonderland, it will be a new door to a new Europe.

      speech here

      https://www.facebook.com/GuyVerhofstadt/videos/vb.99985820015/10155800834075016/?type=3&theater

    197. Meg merrilees says:

      A signed copy of Mein Kampf is up for auction today in Lancashire.

      The BBC has just told anyone and everyone in the UK of this fact. Why?

      It is expected to fetch £1,000. I wonder if it will go for more than that as a result of the free publicity.

      Why does the BBC even think of giving oxygen to the revolting right-wing ideology that is fascism?

      If the rise of the right hadn’t been trumpeted on almost every QuestionTime and UKIP interview, there probably would not even be a market for this book.

    198. Fred says:

      Anent Pacific Quay presenters only obeying orders! Star reporter Raymond Buchanan was “disappeared” to the Weir Group for free-lance lying about an Irish minister! FOR EXAMPLE!

    199. Fred says:

      Anent the Queen’s real name, it’s neither Windsor nor Mountbatten-Windsor, Saxe Coburg de Gotha went with George V & the adopted Windsor should have gone on her marriage to Phil the Greek whose real name is neither Mountbatten nor Battenburg but Schlesvig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg!

    200. gus1940 says:

      Tinto Chiel @9.31

      It was the execrable Tommy Trinder not Max Miller.



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