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All change in Moray

Posted on January 10, 2019 by

Blimey, that was quick. This was Tory MP Douglas Ross yesterday:

Short version: “I don’t care what my constituents want, I will vote loyally for the party I was elected as a member of.”

And this is him today:

Never let it be said Wings readers don’t get things done.

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    1. 10 01 19 17:56

      All change in Moray | speymouth

    654 to “All change in Moray”

    1. Alastair Watson says:

      Crikey
      That is quite a turncoat , sorry turnaround

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      What does The Mooth say? Has he told her yet?

    3. Roger says:

      @Alister Watson…that was a bit brilliant

    4. BuggerLePanda says:

      These are my principles and if you don’t like them I have a bagful of others

    5. Donald MacKenzie says:

      I like a man of principle. Some one who will stand for what he believes in, not an insipid weakling who blows which ever the wind blows.

      That’s why I don’t like this eejit.

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      Can’t help but suspect that what he actually wants is a deal that involves us all nailing our heads to planks rather than simply rejecting a poor deal.

    7. Neil Mackenzie says:

      Chances of David Mundell similarly realising he’s supposed to be Scotland’s voice in Westminster Cabinet instead Westminster Cabinet’s voice in Scotland?

    8. Clootie says:

      Weather vane principles!…if any

    9. Helpmaboab says:

      The highest tradition of the Conservative Party: Putting aside one’s principles to ensure one’s place on the public pay-roll.

      Well done, Mr. Ross! Another few years of such trimming, tacking and triangulating will ensure that you’ll never have to return to the undignified life of a minor jobbing football official.

    10. Vestas says:

      Aye right & if there weren’t another 20+ tories already voting against the govt he’d be doing what?

      Utterly facile self-serving scum – that’s the definition of most MPs/MSPs/MEPs sadly. Oh and that’s all parties.

    11. jimnarlene says:

      He’s aiming for the no deal Brexit, the Tories have wanted all along.

    12. Paul Patience says:

      And what he thought when he saw your piece was, phuq I’m going to lose my seat on the gravy train!

    13. call me dave says:

      A Foul referee!… Yellow card for Ross. 🙁

    14. BillyM says:

      Me thinks Mr Ross must’ve had a bit of bashing from his constituents who’ve read yesterdays back and forth emails.

    15. Corrado Mella says:

      Ross is dubbed colloquially by his peers as “SNP Gain”.

      I suggest crowdfunding a T-shirt with a dartboard and that nickname on the back to post to him.

    16. Andrew Morton says:

      Translation:

      ‘After much heart searching and wrestling with my conscience I have come to realise that there is no way this bill can pass so I might as well vote against it as nobody will much care what I do. I can then pretend that I have my constituents’ wishes at heart’.

    17. Ken500 says:

      Turncoat bastard. Watching his seat. He will still be out on his arse come judgement day. Useless vacant coupon, two faced low life, sanctionig and starving people. How low can they go. A complete and utter shambles.

      Which deal is that? People have lost count. It changes daily.

    18. Ruby says:

      What deal is he going to support?

      How is he going to support his remain constituents? Will he support the withdrawal of article 50/Independence?

      Should be interesting to see how he votes.

    19. Giesabrek says:

      Agree HandandShrimp, I feel that Mr Ross is actually saying he’s rejecting May’s deal in favour of a no-deal hard Brexit, something few of his constituents would want.

    20. Muscleguy says:

      Rats always seem to know just when to leave a sinking ship. Of course your average rat has far more smarts and way more empathy for others than most Tory and all Scottish Tories.

      Not that I’m trying to extol the virtues of ratdom to the Rev of course.

    21. Arbroath1320 says:

      Boy … that trip must have done MORE damage to his wee brain than previously thought if this is what he has been “thinking” over the last 24 hours or so. 😀

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax_VfEuTYfA

    22. Thepnr says:

      Ross Thomson is also on the record as stating he will vote against Mays deal and of course he favours No deal.

    23. Arbroath1320 says:

      Corrado Mella says:
      10 January, 2019 at 5:53 pm
      Ross is dubbed colloquially by his peers as “SNP Gain”.

      I suggest crowdfunding a T-shirt with a dartboard and that nickname on the back to post to him.

      I think you are confusing him with Ross Thomson there Corrado. Dinnae fash yersel though … it’s easily enough done. One Tory twat looks and sounds just like any other Tory twat! 😀

    24. Bob Mack says:

      Ah. The gypsy hating referee,MP. If he makes the same decisions regarding Brexit as he does in other aspects of his activities we are in for a treat.

      The SFA will probably back him in any event. Handshakes you know!!.

    25. Ian McCubbin says:

      Can we now target SNP MPs and MSPs who are wimping out of a dissolve the union track for Independence? It is obvious now SNP are split and there are two camps.
      We need some back bone shown from Nicola Sturgeon.
      In my opinion the only one sticking his eck out is Angus B McNeil.
      He is my local hero.

    26. Bill Hume says:

      Do I actually care what and for what reason this Tory votes for (or against)?
      Not really, because this time next year Scotland will once more be a free and independent nation.
      Eye on the ball fellow wingers.

    27. Az says:

      Wow! I used to think Douglas Ross was a bit Mickey Mouse,
      whereas now, I think of him as a bit Mickey Mouse.

    28. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Brexit becoming personal as more and more people like Douglas Ross wonder if their jobs are safe.

      Is a General Election imminent?

    29. Republicofscotland says:

      Hmm.. Sounds like Ross talks of principles but acts out of interest.

    30. schrodingers cat says:

      @JW
      yup, a ge has been on the cards for ages as it is the only way out of this impass for all MPs

      treezas deal will fail, she will resign, a new no deal tory leader will be appointed PM and call a ge

      I cant wait to see ruth and fluffy trying to sell that idea in scotland

    31. galamcennalath says:

      Maybe he, like other Tories, have been reading some polls. If there was a snap election, many/most in Scotland would be toast. And quite rightly so because they have all been nothing more than voting fodder in English politics. Their constituents’ views have been irrelevant to them.

    32. defo says:

      Kissing Bojo’s ring !
      🙂

    33. mumsyhugs says:

      Must have been my comment about him being my Muppet of an MP! 🙂

    34. Dr Jim says:

      Let me be very clear: That’s the expression isn’t it

      Why am I unmoved and underwhelmed at a Tory NOT going to do what he said he would

      It would be like a child expecting Santa NOT to leave presents

      Tories, Labour, you couldnae slip a keycard between the two of them

    35. Johnny says:

      Of course, a GE could be of use and (if we were lucky, although it’s unlikely) it might herald a change of government.

      But given that the stated reason for having one now is to break the Brexit impasse, I am not sure it would actually resolve anything much.

      You’d really need each party going in with a manifesto pledge to go for a specific thing, i.e. ‘2nd EU ref’, ‘no to second EURef because we want to enact the PM’s deal’, ‘we want EEA/EFTA/Norway’, ‘we just want to revoke Art 50 and Remain’ etc.

      And, even then, only two parties can realistically win a UKGE (or be the dominant partner in a coalition, if that’s how it falls out) and they (the leaderships at least) do not appear to wish to differentiate from each other much on the issue of Brexit.

      So I repeat, a GE (at least insofar as the reasoning is ‘break the Brexit impasse) appears to be a waste of time until it’s, at least, ‘leave or variant vs remain or variant’ and the two biggest UK parties are on either side of that debate.

      Cynically, neither party’s leadership wants to differentiate from the other for fear of alienating a significant number of their voters….in a GE, which is allegedly supposed to solve it all.

    36. starlaw says:

      Roll on the day, but I’ll believe it when I see it, these Tories just say anything to keep us off their backs. Then do what the party commands and to hell with the consequences for their electorate.

    37. ronnie anderson says:

      Douglas Ross got ah late christmas present ah Trampoline somersaults now with little effort

    38. Think that speech from Ross was yesterday,

      as i posted,

      9 January, 2019 at 7:16 pm
      Douglas Ross obviously reads Wings.

      Well done Stu.

      (unless he has done the same today 🙂

    39. DerekM says:

      My that was a mighty sharp stick oor Daniel stuck up wee Dougie`s backside lol

      Though i suspect being on the winning side in the tory civil war is probably what he is up to.

    40. Clapper57 says:

      That’s Douglas thinking about HIMSELF and only HIMSELF as he’s worried about losing a seat on the gravy train…also he so knows that for him to vote for May’s deal will be a waste of time as tis unwinnable….two birds with one stone….pretend honour gains brownie points from constituents and also not being on the losing side via the vote on May’s deal…. for Douglas…..it’s all ME ME ME .

      One would think though that with a Scottish Tory stating this it would stop all of the s**t from Scottish Tories about SNP causing a No Deal as they are not voting for May’s deal….however on planet Tory hypocrisy is part of their DNA.

      Never ever trust a Tory….. especially this one….this particular one definitely deserves a red card….in fact he should never have been a player at all at WM….and boy we all know what his game is..all he does in HOC is moan about the SNP which I suppose is his real purpose as opposed to representing his constituents….very dirty player indeed…..yes he is a very poor substitute when one considers who he replaced.

    41. Terence callachan says:

      Togetherness is the word I prefer when I describe those supporting Scottish independence others call it solidarity they mean the same thing both are correct.
      Everyone for themself is not what Scottish independence supporters approve.

      The British nationalists have failed once again , Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond are committed to the cause of Scottish independence as are so many many others ,we can’t be broken because we have right on our side, every time they smear one of us with falsehoods we have a strong able replacement ready for action.
      The young generation in Scotland is already in waiting ready to take the wheel and steer us on course to independence and brilliance set next door to the most troublesome country in Europe.

      SNP currently has 59% of the MP,s voted into office in holyrood the Scottish parliament
      SNP currently has 79% of the MP,s voted into office to represent Scotland in Westminster

      Scotland can hold a Scottish independence referendum any time it wants

      Englands Westminster will do anything and I mean anything to keep control of Scotland
      We have seen some awful sneaky dirty tricks they have played so far ,much of it bordering on illegality but so far no loss of life.I do not discount the possibility, it has been done by Westminster before.

      we live in a UK where unfairness and cruelty has become unaccountable, the government and the authorities do nothing about it.
      There are many people in Scotland who support this unfairness and cruelty most of them are comfortable and self serving ,they don’t want to give any of what they have to help others and will give their support to austerity and the racism that is being used to implement archaic immigration rules.We won’t change those types, they are filled with too much hatred and have now been given something to attach that hatred to.
      Fortunately they are a minority in Scotland ,they will still be here once Scotland is independent but once we separate from England they won’t be so brazenly outspoken ,they won’t have the British newspapers and the BBC and STV legitimising their hatred.
      Roll on Scottish independence.
      And well done Alex and Nicola

    42. Terence callachan says:

      I hear so many people showing surprise as to why Labour don’t show more support for Remain but it strikes me that many of the Brexit supporters are in fact Labour voters, I would go as far as saying that Labour would lose more voters / supporters that the conservatives would if Labour were seen to stop Brexit.

    43. Greannach says:

      Ross must be worried. Even he can’t be thick enough to imagine people in Moray are impressed by his lacklustre performance. And the RAF and army won’t be there forever.

    44. Shinty says:

      How the EU (and the rest of the world) must be laughing their arses off at the British Government.

      New game in town, which state currently has the worst government in history. (UK/US? -it ain’t big bad Russia, that’s for sure)

    45. ScottishPsyche says:

      You do have to ask, what is the ultimate aim of Brexit? It seems some of the Tories in Scotland are as puzzled as the rest of us. It is hard to fathom which way they will vote as each time they are interviewed it changes.

      Is it simply a system of government and Civil service (Westminster) that resents scrutiny from EU partners as it puts in place increasingly authoritarian and cruel practices against its own citizens? Is it to avoid the new corporate tax regulations as part of the EU crackdown? Whatever the reasons, it’s not democracy or whatever they dress it up as.

      Probably time for an at home with Ruth Davidson and baby to divert the masses. Coming to a new Union friendly Sunday Herald near you.

      Off Topic

      How peculiar are these 2nd rate academics, journos and Think Tanks joining together to discredit the supposedly Putin influenced dominance of Social Media? They are like presenters of old who tried to be down with the kids but just seemed creepy and out of their time. They just don’t sound right, as if they are reading from scripts. You know the ones who thought normal folk were all Bots, that lot. They claim pure motives but their credentials and soft academic ‘research’ are worryingly easy to discredit.

      According to one of their ilk, the next big thing in the Wild West of alternative journalism is citizen journalists with non-government regulation camera equipment filming themselves doorstepping public figures. You know, like the ‘yellow jacket’ EDL types appear harassing Anna Soubry.

      I tell you it’s like Nostradamus walks amongst us…

    46. Dr Jim says:

      Land Rover Jaguar lay off 4.500 workers
      Honda are shutting down car production for six days following Brexit to reasses the business position

      Len McCluskey has had talks with Theresa May (I smell a bribe)

      GMB Union have had talks with Theresa May

      Two ex British Intelligence chiefs say remain

      You get the feeling if God came down and told them they were nuts they’d ignore him

    47. Sharny Dubs says:

      Suddenly remembered who it is that voted him in.

      Three kinds of people.
      Those who see
      Those who see when they are shown
      Those who will never see

    48. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Brian Doonthetoon

      Left a message at the end of the last thread – didn’t realise a new one had started, sorry.

    49. schrodingers cat says:

      Johnny says:
      Of course, a GE could be of use and (if we were lucky, although it’s unlikely) it might herald a change of government.

      But given that the stated reason for having one now is to break the Brexit impasse, I am not sure it would actually resolve anything much.
      ===========

      it would since the tories would drop any pretence of getting “a good deal” and campaign for a no deal. they would win in england but the scottish tories would crash and burn

      for us, the snp would continue to campaign for efta/eea membership, a position supported by 70/80% of scottish voters

      god only knows what corbyn will support, but jeremey’s shine is definately gone.

      result, the snp will win back many of the seats lost in the last election.

      i dont know whether the tories will win a majority in england but either way, on the morning of the result, we will know what brexit actually means and nicola can finally launch indyref2

    50. CmonIndy says:

      Need to check if Luke ‘I’ve had meetings’ Graham is doing the same backflip.

    51. robert alexander harrison says:

      Must be lonely being the only conservative in moray as in our parliament moray is represented by snp and moray council is snp after the conservatives abandoned there posts there so now he’s lying to save his own necks kind of like the USA in its formation days after the 7 year war where british loyalists in patriot territory had to wacth themselves and stay hidden or be tarred and feathered that’s what feeling alone must feel like for Douglas ross these days.

    52. K1 says:

      He voted with his party all the way to get us to this point, not a care did he have for his constituents when he was doing that, and as every constituency in Scotland voted Remain, the very fact that this dolt voted with UK gov Tory policies on every issue up till…now, shows him up for the craven little Toryboy that he is.

      Means absolutely nothing, he’s a careerist and an out and out two faced shit bag*.

      *(he’s in mid crawl up Boris’s bum, so that term is a very accurate fit)

    53. schrodingers cat says:

      moray is constutuency but it was also a count region for the 2016 euref where 49.6% voted leave.

      it was the issue of brexit that turned moray from a safe snp seat to tory.

      Douglas is merely playing to his electorate, if the tories campaign for a no deal brexit, this will put off some of the leave voters who backed him in 2017 but he is calculating that a loss of 10% leaving him about 38% of the vote may still be enough for him to retain his seat.

      he will have run the numbers and by refusing to back treezas deal will ensure he is re selected as candidate for moray in this ge.
      nothing tories do is accidental

    54. Macart says:

      Heh.

      https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1083031865735430146

      Might be he thinks folk aren’t paying attention. He’d be wrong you know.

      Westminster politics is in meltdown and I’m guessing the biggest stooshie is yet to kick off. 😎

    55. Rock says:

      jimnarlene says:
      10 January, 2019 at 5:51 pm

      “He’s aiming for the no deal Brexit, the Tories have wanted all along.”

      Rock (to geeo) (19th September 2017 – “The warning notice”):

      “How can you claim that a “snap” Brexit cannot happen without knowing what a “snap” Brexit means?

      For your information, a “snap” Brexit means the talks between the two sides will collapse without a deal being reached, which is the intention of the UK government as the EU is not going to give in to any blackmail.

      The UK might technically remain in the EU until March 29 2019, but it will be de facto out.

      Scotland will be at the mercy of the Westminster government, with no official status in the EU other than a region of the UK.

      I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa of England and Wales will deny permission to hold Indyref2.

      Do you believe that Nicola will dare defy her and call one anyway and risk a Catalonia like situation?

      I can say with 99% confidence that she will not.

      Catalonians have a spine, Scots don’t.”

      Update:

      I can say with 100% confidence that Nicola is not going to call an independence referendum without Westminster’s permission.

      The “snap” Brexit didn’t happen because it was in the interests of the Establishment to carry on this farce as long as possible before blaming someone else for the shambles.

      I had expected them to crash out sooner by blaming the EU, but the EU didn’t give them the opportunity.

    56. Gary45% says:

      Tories with morals??
      Must be an General Election on the cards.

    57. Rock says:

      Ian McCubbin says:
      10 January, 2019 at 6:15 pm

      “We need some back bone shown from Nicola Sturgeon.”

      Rock (9th January – “The mess we’ve made”):

      “So far, Alex Salmond has only had limited success because the Scottish government gave in only to avoid having to publish the emails and other correspondence which would have completely exposed the lying unionist civil servants.

      Nicola and the Scottish government have squandered half a million pounds of taxpayers’ money to protect ying unionist civil servants.

      The charges against Alex Salmond still stand, and as Craig Murrag rightly says, will be dragged on for a long time.

      The ultra cautious Establishment lawyer Nicola has totally blown it, and her apologists are in complete denial.”

    58. T May talking to the Unions makes me think she is contemplating calling a GE.

      How wimpish of Corbyn to urge her to call a GE – why doesn’t he instigate it???

      Apparently 3 rebel Tory MP’s have now said they will vote with the PM for her deal.

      Nicola being accused of colluding with Alex and also being accused of conspiring against him – so it seems no matter what she says she’s to blame.

      Jackson Coleslaw trying to get an investigation but not sure if that can happen while the Police are still investigating.

      Meanwhile Alex has come out fighting and has referred the Scottish Government to the Data watchdog.

      Someone will have to explain to the less well informed that there are two parts to the S Gov and WM has a firm hold over its bit.

      Only today i was told that a friend’s daunter is getting into debt because of Universal Credit. When she went to the Council to get some information she was told that it is unbelievable the problems people are having with UC and it’s all the Scottish Government’s fault – they could change it if they wanted.

      Tried to correct her but she won’t believe me because it was someone at Stirling Council who said that and they must know the facts.

    59. Rock says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      10 January, 2019 at 9:21 pm

      “nothing tories do is accidental”

      Rock says:
      11 December, 2018 at 9:39 pm (Return Of The Terror):

      “The Establishment and the Tories always know what they are doing. They always make very calculated moves.

      They appear as fools and idiots but are most definitely not.

      Never underestimate them.”

    60. jezza says:

      BritNat Ross is onto a loser no matter what.

      Either IndyRef2 will cause him to lose his seat or another General Election.

      The final whistle is about to blow on this chancer.

    61. Giving Goose says:

      This MP should be contacted and encouraged to support Scotland more often (wink thingy emoticon).

    62. Terence callachan says:

      Leslie Evans the permanent secretary to Scotland a civil servant employed by Westminster not by holyrood but she is westmibsters adviser to Nicola Sturgeon Scotlands first minister.
      People might wonder what connection there might be between Leslie Evans and Judith mackinnon
      the other woman involved in putting a case together against Alex salmond.
      Judith mackinnon is employed as the head of people advice she too is a civil servant employed by Westminster she too works for the Scottish government.
      Neither woman works for SNP
      There is no Scottish civil service there is only one civil service for the whole of the UK and it is run by Westminster
      Judith mackinnon is qualified in HR

      Check the link below, especially the final paragraph
      Is it likely Evans consulted mackinnon in the past about her own position for a HR discussion ?
      I think it highly likely
      I reckon they knew each other very well indeed long before the plan was hatched to spread lies about Alex Salmond.
      Read this article and consider

      https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/interview/interview-scottish-government-permanent-secretary-leslie-evans-–-where-else-would

    63. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      10 January, 2019 at 9:50 pm

      “Meanwhile Alex has come out fighting and has referred the Scottish Government to the Data watchdog.”

      The Scottish Government, led by ultra cautious Establisment lawyer Nicola, has squandered half a million pounds of taxpayers’ money to protect lying unionist civil servants.

      And yet the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here still think that Nicola is the messiah who will bring independence to Scotland.

      Rock (2nd November 2018 – “Ifs and buts and maybes”):

      “The iron was hot and ready to be struck the day after the Brexit referendum result.

      If Alex Salmond had been in charge, he would have not missed the opportunity.

      But cautious Establishment lawyer Nicola was not up to it.”

    64. Jim McIntosh says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      10 January, 2019 at 9:50 pm

      “Only today i was told that a friend’s daunter is getting into debt because of Universal Credit. When she went to the Council to get some information she was told that it is unbelievable the problems people are having with UC and it’s all the Scottish Government’s fault – they could change it if they wanted.

      Tried to correct her but she won’t believe me because it was someone at Stirling Council who said that and they must know the facts”

      If this is true the person telling these lies should be identified and sacked.

    65. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      @Meg Merriless 9:50

      Very interesting information concerning your friends daughter.

      Now that UC has been rolled out across Scotland the Tories have decided to put it on hold. This means England will, for the time being, be unaffected.

      Meanwhile, it now looks to the poor unfortunate person suffering the effects of the UC is that as it is confined to Scotland it must be a SG diktat. The opposition backed with the media can now falsely claim it is the fault of the SG and up to them to sort it out.

      Sleekit indeed.

    66. Dr Jim says:

      @Meg

      Internet Meg, tell them about the internet and Google
      Who believes what people tell them these days without checking

    67. Cactus says:

      Aweright & evenin’ to ye Jockanese Wind Talker earlier ~

      “Brexit becoming personal as more and more people like Douglas Ross wonder if their jobs are safe.

      Is a General Election imminent?

      A-round-a-bout here in East Ren, they stopped delivering “The Extra” newspaper (p&j) to the local constituents about 2 years ago… they’ve just started to stock the FREE paper at the checkouts of local newsagents / shops NOW.

      Nae doubt they’ll be back to posting em fully through the letterboxes again a few weeks out from their chosen GE2019 day. It be a tory / britnat publication.

      NB ye’ve got to play like a piano player on the keys of this laptop Tinto, tis SO sensitive to the slightest touch or rub of yer wrist over the pad… it’ll activate it to GO otherwise.

    68. Cubby says:

      Rockdrivel@ 9.43pm

      Aw poor old Nostrabamus finally admits his “snap Brexit ” prediction isn’t going to happen.

    69. Cubby says:

      SCOTLAND’s Parliament

      1. The whole system is designed by the BRITISH Labour Party.

      2. The voting system is designed by the BRITISH Labour Party to make it almost impossible for any one Party to obtain a majority.

      3. The Presiding Officer is from the BRITISH Labour Party and has links to Scotland in Union.

      4. Three out of the five parties in the Parliament are BRITISH parties.

      5. The BRITISH Tory party has shown it can override Scotland’s parliament when it wants and remove powers when it wants.

      6. The BRITISH Civil Service runs public services in Scotland.

      7. The budget for the Scottish Parliament is adjusted in line with spending decisions by the BRITISH Parliament.

      Anyone see room for improvement. Anyone think this was what was promised by the “infamous” VOW.

      There is only one solution end the Treaty of Union.

    70. Kangaroo says:

      Theresa contemplating calling a GE for 4th April to stop Parliament from preventing a no-deal Brexit.

    71. Cactus says:

      Ah can think of three types of former / previous no voters (with no vested interests), whom are seeing and hearing all of this bullshit news – with regards tae oor Alex and oor Nicola – and their SUBSEQUENT reaction to that corporate media…

      1) “That’s what the tv and papers say, it must be right, right?”
      2) “Wait a minute, nae chance, that’s a blatant set up”
      3) =Tumbleweed eyes=

      Two and three are enlightenable.

      Number 1 is a toughy…

      But breakable.

    72. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      10 January, 2019 at 10:32 pm

      “Aw poor old Nostrabamus finally admits his “snap Brexit ” prediction isn’t going to happen.”

      Some other predictions:

      Nicola DID squander a 1000 years golden opportunity and the SNP HAS been caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Prove me wrong when Nicola calls a referendum.

    73. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      10 January, 2019 at 10:32 pm

      “Aw poor old Nostrabamus finally admits his “snap Brexit ” prediction isn’t going to happen.”

      Second part of the prediction:

      “Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.”

      Did you read the word “or”?

      Prove me wrong if that doesn’t happen.

    74. Dr.Jim

      My friend is older, has voted Labour all her life and reads the Daily Mail – plus doesn’t have a computer or do the internet. Gets all her news from MSM. AAARGH!

    75. Sunniva says:

      Well good on him is all I can say though I’ll believe it when I see it.

    76. Hail Cactus – Happy New Year!

    77. Sunniva says:

      OK so I get it now. He wants a no deal Brexit.

    78. Dr Jim says:

      @Meg

      Library Meg all the UK guv papers on it are in the library for the public to see but then again maybe she sticks to her opinion because doesn’t actually want to know the truth because the truth she’s always believed in might upset her view of the world

      Although it’s a pretty awful state of affairs when elected people get away with lying so blatently to their own constituents detriment just to get a vote that’ll make their lives actually worse

      These are unscrupulous people indeed

      Get the daughters address and send her the truth, maybe not, family row big fall out, mess

      Really tough one

    79. Cactus says:

      A hey howde hey Meg, a very Merry New Year to you too x

      Hail hail, some tory’s’ll be gaun tae jail.

      When the breaking news breaks…

      Annit awe comes out.

    80. Legerwood says:

      Cyber-Corroboree says:

      10 January, 2019 at 10:18 pm
      replying to @Meg Merriless 9:50

      Universal Credit has been rolled out in England, Wales and NI as well as Scotland.

      There are some areas in Scotland where UC is now in place AND there are areas in England and Wales to.

      This links to a map showing which areas in Scotland, England and Wales UC has been rolled out as of November 2018.
      https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1040160/Universal-Credit-changes-map-budget-universal-credit-roll-out

      It is supposed to be rolled out over the whole of the UK by the end of 2018.

      I do not think the UK Government is going to halt the roll out altogether but there have been mutterings about slowing the rollout. Whether they come to anything remains to be seen.

    81. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is reposted from previous thread.

      I don’t believe that NS/AS discussed the particulars of the case/process, in person or via phone. They surely operate on the assumption that they are constantly being bugged.

      But I’ll bet they did discuss the likelihood that they were being set up, and worked out how to deal with it many months ago. I don’t expect Jackson Carlaw would be quite so keen to see minutes of those particular exchanges.

      NS and AS are both smarter than most of us will ever be. Yes, we’re biased, and yes, there’s an element of wishful thinking, but we should also consider the trajectory of events over the past decade or so – AS/NS has been a winning combination which has brought us to the very threshold of independence. The State has been out to get them for years – it wouldn’t have been doing its job otherwise! – but they’ve remained solid throughout. There can be few partnerships in modern politics as sound and effective. That’s probably why the so-called ‘civil war’ has been such a damp squib – it just isn’t credible that they could be foes.

      We’re very nearly there, so, FFS, don’t let spooks and trolls and panic merchants get tae ye!

      ?

    82. Legerwood says:

      Continuing with Universal Credit for a moment. It looks like Alison Thewlis’ campaign, and others, against the two-child cap, aka the rape clause, may be about to produce a change in the legislation although not its full removal.

      https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1083483647406206977

    83. Clootie says:

      Remember the Referendum when the public voted for Boatey McBoatface?

      Voters: We want to give a boat a ridiculous name
      UK government: No!

      Then Brexit

      Voters: We want to break up the EU and trash the world economy
      UK government: OK!

      I guess respecting the people’s choice once is OK but I wish they had picked the first one!

    84. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Salmond is going for the Daily Record, BBC TEXT confirms it without mentioning the Daily Record

      You’ve got to hand it to these media types and Yoons they really stick together eh

      STV Scotland tonight must have mentioned *these brave women* about twenty times, the thing is they’re only brave women if they’re truthful women and that’s yet to be legally proven and that’s only an *if* it gets to court unless the Daily Record stumps up the gob shut money

      The Public Enquiry that’ll never likely happen because if the whole truth and nothing but the truth comes out then the Daily Record and Davie Cleggs part in the whole sorry affair will be laid out and exposed

      Do the opposition want that, I kinda don’t think they do they depend on supportive newspaper lies to make their cases for them so I think they’ll just shout a lot about it and claim they were prevented in some way later to enable them to keep on publicly hinting at the same lie then all the other papers will breathe a sigh of relief that they’re not next to be dobbed in

    85. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      QT tonight is actually painful but I would say that the audience indicates that the English position on Brexit has reversed.
      I wonder why the third biggest party in Parliament isn’t represented on it.
      Is it because it is the only party tha has been talking sense

    86. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 18:39:

      yup, a ge has been on the cards for ages

      Quasi-Labourite pie in the sky. The only reason Corby is demanding one is because he knows he won’t get it! Since if there was, he likely wouldn’t get a majority, would be beholden in office to a strengthened SNP, and his own and his party’s shambolic ambivalence over Brexit would get full public exposure, both during the election and in the aftermath.

      If the Tories want a no-deal Brexit, they don’t need to risk an election and a starkly-enhanced split between Scotland and England to achieve it, all they have to do is stall, FFS.

      Johnny @ 19:02 has got this one dead right.

      schrodingers cat @ 20:58:

      for us, the snp would continue to campaign for efta/eea membership, a position supported by 70/80% of scottish voters

      You have tried this trick before, and frankly it is a complete fabrication that is unworthy of this site. EFTA/EEA is NOT SNP policy, not in the past, not currently, and there is no sign it will change any time soon. As you well know.

      Furthermore, there is NO EVIDENCE WHATEVER that any proportion of Scottish voters support any kind of Brexit, whether EEA/EFTA as you assert or anything harder. On the contrary, there is solid evidence that a significant majority of Scottish voters want to remain citizens of the EU. Which is SNP policy.

      Have an opinion by all means, but be man enough to defend it as yours, and leave off this disreputable tendency to project your own opinions onto others without a shred of evidence in support. You demean yourself and you insult us.

    87. Macart says:

      @Cactus

      Hope you had a good new year fella. 🙂

      On the AS/NS nonsense? Let them do what they’re going to do. Pretty sure they’ll have it covered. We are talking about folks who have smidge of experience when it comes to politics and legality. Pretty certain thur oan it. 😎

      Also? Remember who and what they’re up against.

      So far as we’re concerned? It should be about convincing people, welcoming them and reassuring the afraid, uncertain and the new Scots that we’ve got their back.

      Food banks still need donations as do clothing charities. They’re going to need all the help they can get I’d reckon.

      Worth a thought.

    88. ScotsCanuck says:

      re:-
      Ian Brotherhood

      … spot on analysis ma man !!

    89. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve just had a dip into Yoonworld and they’re going murderously insane in there the hatred just pours out of the screen at you

      They hate Scotland and all things and people Scottish, they want the SNP murdered in all sorts of various ways and Lord help anybody who’s foreign or even looks non pasty white

      Strangely enough though they hate us so much they never want to let us go, so much so they’ll kill us to keep our country which of course isn’t ours but theirs

      Everything but sitting on porches playing banjos waiting to go out on the next Coon hunt well in our case Jock hunt

      Don’t go in it’s bad for your mental health

    90. jezza says:

      Brillo getting a hard time on his show tonight..excellent viewing watching him squirm .

    91. Alba Laddie says:

      O/T but Andra just got handed his arse on a plate by Owen Jones. A blissful watch.

    92. Petra says:

      Saw the close to fisticuffs between Neil and Owen Jones but missed the gist of it through, unsuccessfully, trying to multi-task.

      What did OJ say to (about) AN that had him going MAD to shut him up?

    93. Petra says:

      Mhairi Black: ”Time is running out for the UK Government in Scotland.”

      And so say all of us Mhairi. Won’t be long now until we wish them all a not so fond farewell.

      https://twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1083442319863492608?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    94. Cubby says:

      Rockshit

      You really are the Court ( Wings) jester. Total clown.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, but what he says is not what he does. Next week he’ll meekly do whatever someone tells him to do.

    96. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ScotsCanuck (12.05) –

      Time will tell, but, in any event…

      Cheers!

      😉

    97. Jeff says:

      Our old friends The Corries got it right;

      Scotland will flourish, by the sweat of our labour, the strength of our will and the force of our minds;
      Forget the old battles-those days are over, hatred corrupts and friendship refines,
      Let the Scots be a nation proud o’ their heritage, wi’ an eye to the future and a heart to forgive,
      And let us be rid of those bigots and fools who will not let Scotland live and let live..

      Let us govern our country, wisely and fairly, let each man and woman work wi’ a will,
      And Scotland Will Flourish, secure in the knowledge, that we reap our own harvest and ring our own till…

      And let us be known for our kind hospitality, a hand that is openly proffered to friends, a hard working people, proud and unbending; Scotland will thrive and win out in the end…

      Scotland will flourish, by the sweat of our labour, the strength of our will and the force of our minds;
      Forget the old battles-those days are over; hatred corrupts and friendship refines
      So let us be known for our kind hospitality, a hand that is openly proffered to friends, a hard working people, proud and unbending; Scotland will thrive and win out in the end……

    98. Artyhetty says:

      It’s OK, even if he loses his job, he has a lucrative pension to look forward to. A scheming trougher! One of many.

      I’m fckg devastated right now. I was at a wee international meet group this evening, always some new people attend.

      Spoke to a young German person, who desperately wants to study in Scotland, has applied to most Uni’s here. Also applied to Ireland ‘in case of Brexit, and I don’t have much faith in what will happen’. This person told me they have a best friend from the US, studying in Limerick, ‘because of Brexit’, would have chosen Scotland otherwise.

      Guys, you talk to people from abroad, and they want to come and live in Scotland, they ‘love Scotland’. They know that immigration is a reserved matter and that right wing violence is a problem in ‘England’.

      Though this person also said they had a pal in Germany who thought Scotland might be a ‘dangerous place to live’, ( eh?) until they came and stayed, over Hogmanay. Now they want to ‘come back’. What is the view of Scotland, what are the myths, outside of Scotland? We all know how Scotland is welcoming and outward looking, but the nasty power mad Britnats and their media are doing a good job on Scotland, undermining her reputation, and integrity!

      Going back a bit, I was shocked to hear someone I know say about Scotland’s art and artists, ‘it’s too perochial’, when the contracts were being awarded to artists in countries like New Zealand for the Commonwealth games. Yep, they travelled the globe to find some art that wasn’t ‘perochial’.

      Within the so called ‘UK’ Scotland is second fiddle. The strings are all a bit frayed, only way to replace them is with independence for Scotland.

    99. Old Pete says:

      Has the civil war started yet ?

    100. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s a lot of mythology circulating about civil service in Scotland, and the jobs and who is the employer – Holyrood or Westminster. Here’s the actual breakdown:

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/public-sector-employment-scotland-statistics-1st-quarter-2018/pages/7/

      e.g. “The devolved civil service is made up of:

      Scottish Government Core Departments
      Scottish Government Agencies
      Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
      Non-Ministerial Departments

      The reserved civil service is made up of:

      UK Government Departments
      Scotland Office

      In Q1 2018, there were 42,300 people employed as civil servants in Scotland. This is made up of 17,400 (41.1%) people working in the devolved civil service and 24,900 (58.9%) working in UK government departments. The total number of civil servants has decreased by 20 over the year.

      So the answer is – 42. As in % directly or indirectly under Holyrood. The Senior Civil Service, as in Leslie, is under the “Home” Civil Service, i.e. Westminster.

      All senior civil servants are accountable to a Minister, and Evans is accountable to the FM, not the PM.

      The percentage is rising, as the UK drops civil servants whereas the devolved administrations keep a hold of them and even increases them, hence dropping the ration of devolved versus “reserved” (UK Civil Service).

      Hence the 42% as it probably is by now! And anyway, I have my towel (and toothbrush).

    101. K1 says:

      Should we no aw be calling it the ‘civil service civil war’ anyway?

      😉

    102. Cactus says:

      Morning Macart, aye all Scotland’s People need is to become aware and recognise what’s going on all around them, for them to seek reassurance from us confident Yes People and be able to make that choice, tae step away frae the fear and darkness that is so-hauntingly called the United Kingdom union.

      ‘Scottish’ British Nationalists do NOT Love Scotland ~ FACT
      ‘Scottish’ British Nationalists are NOT Passionate for Scotland ~ FACT
      ‘Scottish’ British Nationalists DON’T believe in Scotland ~ FACT

      Once they realise whom they really are, that’s when they iWIN.

      The coming weeks should be interesting.

    103. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      Good find.

    104. Cactus says:

      Ross Douglas who neither Loves nor is Passionate for Scotland said:

      “In the end, after much thought, deliberation and discussion, I have concluded I can’t support this deal. I’ve always promised to be Moray’s voice in Westminster-not Westminster’s voice in Moray which is why I won’t be able to support the government next week.”

      What about you Paul Masterton and the company of ur conservatory’s…

      Yer wee pal has ‘changed suit’, what about you?

      All the constituents NOW know.

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh yeah, and this thing about the civil service jobs being advertised by UK agencies.

      Well, duh. Employment agencies are often UK-wide, Indeed being an example. And civil service jobs, like many big private company jobs, can be advertised both internally and externally – using agencies. You can apply direct or through the agency. Like here:

      http://www.work-for-scotland.org/

      which has an 0131 phone number on the contact page. Note the “Scottish Government” logo.

      If there’s any conspiracies to construct, and there may be, at least make them based on actual facts.

    106. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      So were yours on the other thread.

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I typed that wrong “hence dropping the ratio of devolved versus “reserved” (UK Civil Service).”

      It should be INCREASING rather than dropping. And the more that’s devolved in the way of powers, the more the ration will increase. For instance when the benefit powers in the Scotland Act 2016 are fully brought home, presumably the civil service jobs associated with the IT function will also come home to Scotland.

    108. Cactus says:

      Just to follow-up on the above for further clarity.

      The REAL…

      Scottish British Nationalists do NOT Love Scotland ~ FACT
      Scottish British Nationalists are NOT Passionate for Scotland ~ FACT
      Scottish British Nationalists DON’T believe in Scotland ~ FACT

      Ying & yang and please thank you ma’am. 🙂

      Vote with yer SOUL this time SBN’s…

      If ye have one.

    109. Iain mhor says:

      @yesindyref2 2:34am

      Just an FYI on “Indeed” the government jobsearch site.
      Its mobile app was one of those found to be sharing user data to Facebook by Privacy International in a report a couole of weeks ago. That’s whether you had a Facebook account or not.

      https://privacyinternational.org/report/2647/how-apps-android-share-data-facebook-report

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      @Iain mhor
      Doesn’t surprise me. It’s an international company, and basically US if I have that right. … Mmm yes:

      Founded by Paul Forster and Rony Kahan, Indeed is a subsidiary of Recruit Holdings Co., Ltd. In the US, Indeed has offices in Austin etc.

      Ooops, make that Japan.

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      Recruit Holdings Co., Ltd I mean, not Austin Texas!

    112. Cactus says:

      Aye dedicate this song to Douglas Ross, Masterton of the Paul, May of the Theresa and all of their other smelly bum-chums:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVRhvwVxhLE

      Thistle be the 3rd time ah’ve played the above…

      Although a different (cutting) video.

      Peace is closer with iScotland.

      Choose iLife.

    113. Colin Alexander says:

      Why are people still trying to peddle Alex Salmond’s myth that there is the Scottish Govt and the British Govt?

      Even Mr Blair and New Labour called it the Scottish Executive.

      Alex had his reasons for doing that. Canny man that he is.

      However, the truth is, there is only UK Government in the UK. UK Civil Servants.

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      @Colin Alexander
      Well Colin, it’s possible you didn’t read my posting nearly 4 hours ago, so here’s a link back for you:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/all-change-in-moray/comment-page-1/#comment-2424007

      from that you’ll see that 41.1% of the civil servants in Scotland were in the direct service of the devolved Scottish government 1 year ago, so I guess you’ll be wanting to correct half of your last posting – or of course you’d be perpetrating an outright lie if you continued with it.

      As for government, look up the definition. Hint: even councils are called “local government”.

      So you score null points for the lack of substance with your last posting. But yes, Alex Salmond was a canny man, though I’ve no idea if he partook of a drink or two in the establishment of that name (with an apostrophe s) in Edinburgh (if it still exists).

    115. jezza says:

      Murray retirement, couldn’t care less. He was a play thing for the English media, hence the knighthood.

    116. jezza says:

      Cactus 3.42

      That’s some video mate.

    117. Ken500 says:

      Scotland pays for the UK Civil service through the Barnett Formula. Scotland has to pay for Westminster expense etc. It pay (portionately) for the high paid Civil service jobs in the Mall. A vast network of highly paid Gov jobs, the renovation of Westminster will cost £Billions. The excess of foreign embassies. Scotland has to pay for that. Even gets charged to use them twice. If these jobs were based in Edinburgh/Glasgow. It would help the Scottish economy. Scotland could cut down on the excess. Holyrood is far cheaper to run and would be more efficient an Westminster. An over blown administration of extortionate excess.

      Scotland has to pay for Holyrood (much cheaper by comparison), the Scottish Office, Mundell’s extravagance for propaganda and disinformation, and (pro rata) Westminster. A colossal waste of money of no value. Wastes money like there is no tomorrow. On illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. Now Brexit. All a collosal waste of public money. Illegal back handers, bribes to Saudia Arabia etc. M15 on the Thames causing trouble illegally all over the world and in Scotland. Westminster one of the most corrupt institutions in the world. Full of unionist liars and crooks. Most of them should be in jail.

      All of Scotland’s wealth and resources taken secretly and illegally, and wasted by Westminster unionists crooks. Then lied about it. Kept it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. Scotland depopulated by Westminster centralist policies. The population has stagnated since 1928 and before. Until Devolution 2000. The only time that the Scottish population has increased since 1707. Showing Scotland would be far better running it’s own economy than the crooks at Westminster. The only time unemployment has been lower in Scotland than the rest of the UK ie traditionally low.

      Under the SNP Gov Scotland has prospered far better than before and could manage even better if it had the powers and was Independent. It would have a far better economy. Not wasting funds on what it does not need Trident etc and having the funds to invest in the economy.

      Scotland loses £20Billion a year to the appalling Westminster mismanagement. £3Billion to tax evasion. Some whisky companies pay no tax on vast profits, £4 Billion+ on the Oil and Gas industry, High Tory taxes 40% since Jan 2016. More Oil & Gss has to be imported. Fracked Gas from the US, Gas from Norway and nuclear from France. Scotland produces power from renewables. Scotland has to pay for Hinkley Point and HS2 both a total waste of time and money. Scotland can’t borrow to invest in the economy. While Westminster can borrow and spend in the rest of the UK what it likes. Scotland has to pay loan repayments on monies not borrowed or spent in Scotland.

      Westminster mismanagement has ruined the fishing industry. Throwing back dead fish for a years. The Westminster disastrous and wasteful fishing policy. The Oil & Gas sector mismanaged costing lives. The farming sector Westminster took £Millions of EU CAP payments made intended for Scotland and gave them to wealthier farmers in the South. Scotland Gas to pay for Trident and illegal wars costing £Billions.

      Brexit will devastate the Scottish/UK/world economy. The illegal action of a disasterous inane Westminster Gov. Once again trying to ruin the Scottish economy (Thatcher) The Labour/LibDems useless enablers. The appalling actions of a bankrupt Westminster Gov. Sanctionig and starving people. The appalling, unecessary ‘austerity’. NHS/Education cuts. The tax take/revenues are up £95Billion a year. The cuts £13Billion. The absolutely useless Westminster Gov of frauds. They cannot count if read a balance sheet. Just despicable. Killing their own supporters. The elderly. Supporting a Brexit which will lead to their own family members being deported. A unionist disaster of gross incompetence.

      The Alex Salmond accusations just another M15 plot wasting £Millions of taxpayers money. Just more lies and waste. Unbelievable. UK civil service corruption and mismanagement. Aided by the lying disgraceful sycophantic Press. Tanking. Losing money faster than a sieve loses water. A total biased mess of ignorance and incompetence. False accusations.

      Thank goodness for the SNP Gov standing up for Scotland. Thank goodness every day. The Westminster shambles of chaos and appalling incompetence. Beyond belief and just appalling. Unionists.

      Scotland has now ended up with the appalling universal credit system imposed in Scotland by Westminster crooks. While it is not being introduced in the rest of the UK. The Poll tax. Unfair, unjust and unnecessary. The unionists are illegally killing people. All over the world. They have killed and mained millions. £Trns in debt and the most unequal place in the world. Scotland can do better than this. The power is in the people’s hand. Use it. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for independence. Brexit will be a disaster. If the unionists are not stopped.

    118. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      @Cactus 3:42

      I have to say the band is not normally ma cup o’ tea. The accompanying video made it very compelling.

      Why have we let it get to this stage?

    119. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus , that wasn’t the nicest way to start the day but it sure makes the point.

    120. Ken500 says:

      Mhairi Black and the rest. Brilliant.

      All the best love Andy Murray. Thanks for the thrills and spills. Outstanding. Putting Scotland on the map worldwide. On the international stage, Bring £Millions/Billions into Scotland. Kudos in every way. There is still a place in sport. There are many other ways. All the best. Keep fit and well in every way. An amazing embassadour. Unique. A place in history. There are lots of opportunity in sport for example. Commentating and knowledge. Haste ye back.

    121. Bob Mack says:

      Re Civil Service,

      You should remember 2011, when the Unionist parties complained to the Civil Service chief in Westminster that the senior members of the Scottish Civil service had “gone native”, for helping Alex Salmond organise the indy application and secure the funding.
      They wanted the Chief of the Civil Service to “rein in” this behaviour and stop it happening in future.

      Now that very much sounds to me as if the Unionists believed the top Scottish Civil servants could be controlled by London.

    122. boris says:

      A summary of early government papers covering the period 1973 to 1977 was released by The National Archive. The exchanges showed there was knowledge about potential persistent contamination from Depleted Uranium dust. But what also emerged was the manoeuvring by the Westminster government and MOD to keep the firings secret from the Scots and the contempt with which the public was held.

      https://caltonjock.com/2019/01/11/depleted-uranium-the-toxic-time-bomb-gifted-to-scots-by-the-westminster-government-yet-the-residents-of-the-south-of-scotland-still-voted-to-retain-the-union-in-2014-hell-mend-them/

    123. Stravaiger says:

      Please, Rev, post an audio clip of Richard Leonard on Radio Shortbread a few minutes ago. Hayley Miller had him on the ropes from the get-go. I haven’t laughed so much in ages!

    124. Hamish100 says:

      Leonard a gibbering idiot. Did he actually imply the snp is pro brexit

    125. call me dave says:

      Jings! Are you listening to Dicky Leonard on shortbread making a pig’s ear of clarifying his stance on Brexit. Nonsense on stilts.

      Oh wait it’s only an excuse to ask him about Sturgeon and ambush him on the unanswered alleged cases of abuse regarding ‘Scottish’ Labour issues and the suspended Aberdeen councillors.
      Stammering & clearly unprepared….poor Dicky.

      He was led neatly up the garden path there! Shortbread not Leonard’s friend today. That was worth tuning in for 🙂

      PS:
      Thoughts are with Andy Murray and wish him well in the future.
      Best Scottish sportsman ever. 🙁

    126. Macart says:

      Jings. Just done a quick scan of the usual suspects pages and…. OH MY! They are NOT happy that the large corporates are jumping ship. The Jag/Landrover news especially seems to have sent them into a bit of a tiz.

      Just to be clear though. Are they more upset that these marks are heading overseas to continue their production? Or are they upset that they’re doing EXACTLY what folk warned them they would do in event of closing relations with a major trading block? In short, making those doing the complaining look stupid and exceptionalist. Probably both (shrugs).

      These are major corporates. Boards and shareholders are the bottom line. Saving costs, maintaining the largest market share possible and increasing profits is pretty much what they do for a living. The UK is in the process of cutting itself off from the worlds largest trading block. What did folk think these companies were going to do? Wrap themselves patriotically in their flegs, salute and go down with the sinking ship?

      This is nowhere near as bad as its going to get for them of course. But, y’know, silver linings. they voted for this and they’re about to get exactly what they voted for. You’d think they’d be happy about that.

      Can’t please some folk I s’pose.

    127. Colin Alexander says:

      @yesindyref2

      It’s true councils are called local government. I think that’s the best comparison for the “Scottish Govt”. What is presented as a national govt has as much real sovereignty as a council, so well done, good comparison. Brownie points to you.

      I’m not saying it to slag the Scottish Govt, just being realistic. I wish we really did have a real Scottish Govt, instead of a branch office of UK Parliament, that can be overruled by the likes of “Lord Darling, Lord Foulkes, Baroness Mone etc.

      Some Unionists tell me the Lords serve a useful purpose.

      They do: they remind us of how corrupt and undemocratic UK “democracy” really is and helps us keep focused on independence for Scotland.

    128. Ken500 says:

      Housden who Evans replaced was accused of being too helpful to Scotland. Evans has been in Scotland since 1985. Involved in local electoral reform 2000. (STV) to favour unionists ruining the economy.

      Heywood the head of the UK Civil service. Illegally campaigned against Independence. Supposed to be impartial. The civil service group given ‘honours’ for corruption of interference and lies. Heywood later stated Scotland would be better off Independent. Made a Baron and other ‘honours’ paid £200,000 and expenses. Blair’s crony. Died Nov 2018. Cancer.

      Internet.

    129. Fraser A Reid says:

      LEts just give hime a few minutes more to change his story again and also deny all the events so far.

    130. Ken500 says:

      The Lords has absolutely no power other than possible delay (twice) but can be easily restrained and contained by Westminster. Depending on timetable. A total unelected waste of time and money. Undemocratic. Many honourable people refuse honours.

    131. Hamish100 says:

      So according to Corbyn and Leonard ..have a general election and impose brexit on Scotland. Just like the tories. Vote winner that one.

    132. Ken500 says:

      Labour/LibDem are just as bad as the Tories. The enablers. Get rid of Labour
      Take the fight to the Tories. The SNP will win. Then Independence. Get rid of the cheating thieves at Westminster.

      Go get the bastards Alex.

    133. Colin Alexander says:

      Ken500

      The undemocratic Lords’ legislation did not just delay the democratic Scottish Parliament’s Continuity Bill and devolution devolved / reserved convention; it shredded them.

    134. Massive kudos to Alison Thewliss for halting the roll out of the Conservative and Unionists two child benefit cap,

      still needs to be scraped all together,

      Alison,along with Joanna Cherry,is one of the best parliamentarians at Westminster.

    135. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      In the end it will be Scotland versus the Tories. Labour are now an irrelevance existing only to be used by the media – rather like the Lib Dems.

      And in the final analysis,when it is plain that without any doubt we are going to be independent, there will be many of those Tories on our bus as well. Self interest it is called.

    136. Ghillie says:

      WELL DONE PETER 🙂

      WELL DONE WINGS 🙂

      WINGS GETS THINGS DONE 🙂

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    137. Bill McLean says:

      O/T – Thinking on the despicable British treatment of Alex and before him Michelle Thomson and others I suddenly remembered Natalie McGarry who was an MP but charged with impropriety regarding Women for Independence. What has happened in her case? Interested as her family come from the wee town of Inverkeithing not far from where I live in the Kingdom.

    138. Old Pete says:

      The SNP civil war ? Who, where, when, what ?

    139. Bill Hume says:

      Bill McLean @ 10:02
      Yes it has gone very quiet but I take that as quite a good thing. Had she been found guilty it would have been plastered over every newspaper.

    140. Alba 46 says:

      Re the AS and NS meetings.

      The SUN editorial today:-

      “The First Minister of Scotland was meeting with a former First Minister, alongside her top special adviser to hold discussions on a Government inquiry into allegations effecting Government staff. That’s Government business”

      NS stated yesterday in parliament that there was no discussions about the allegations but it was SNP business.

      To print the above editorial the Scottish SUN obviously has evidence that the allegations against AS were being discussed so why don’t they print it?

      AS, NS and the special adviser were at the first meeting and only AS and NS were at the subsequent meetings / phone calls. Therefor the so called evidence must have came from NS special adviser who was present at the first meeting.
      Thats the only conclusion that can be arrived at. I’m sure the SUN will print their evidence in due course – NOT.

      Another unionist rag printing lies and innuendo without any evidence to back it up. Mickey mouse journalism from a unionist comic publication

    141. galamcennalath says:

      Bill McLean says:

      What has happened

      … to all sorts of events. There’s a pattern. Weak claims are made, the loyal gutter press makes a huge hoo-ha about it, a career is damaged, it persists for months/years, little becomes of the claims, there is no closure.

      The objective short term damage. Justice rarely takes it’s course.

      I fear if Alec Salmond doesn’t take civil action, he too will be left with smear stain indefinitely.

    142. jfngw says:

      It would seem that like everything run by Westminster the Civil Service is also dysfunctional, are they capable of running anything properly. What this has shown is that the Scottish Government, the real one not the Mundell claque, needs to be under direct control of Scotland.

      An outsider could think this was purposely botched to create the current anti SNP headlines in the all too willing media.

      Smears is really all the unionist parties have left, they have no policies or positions that are of benefit to Scotland. Their allegiance is to Westminster, why else do they oppose the votes of Scotland on the EU.

      And the answer of it was a UK vote doesn’t wash as it was effectively an English vote forced on Scotland, to have the vote and the outcome, Scotland voted for neither.

    143. Bill McLean says:

      Galamcennalath and Bill Hume – thanks for your responses.Agree with Bill that no news is, in this instance, probably good news. Has Natalie’s political career been ruined though – she is from a family of politicians in this area who all have good reputations. Agree with Galamcennalath that Alex needs to make a move or they will hang these allegations round his neck forever. We need him in the forthcoming independence referendum – there are few with his grasp of politics and guts around!

    144. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      schrodingers cat @ 18:39:

      yup, a ge has been on the cards for ages

      Quasi-Labourite pie in the sky. The only reason Corby is demanding one is because he knows he won’t get it! Since if there was, he likely wouldn’t get a majority, would be beholden in office to a strengthened SNP, and his own and his party’s shambolic ambivalence over Brexit would get full public exposure, both during the election and in the aftermath.

      ———————-
      I have no idea what labours position is, and neither does anyone else, including richard leonard.
      —————-

      If the Tories want a no-deal Brexit, they don’t need to risk an election and a starkly-enhanced split between Scotland and England to achieve it, all they have to do is stall, FFS.

      ————————-
      this assumes that the tories are a united unit. hint. they are not

      ———————————

      schrodingers cat @ 20:58:

      for us, the snp would continue to campaign for efta/eea membership, a position supported by 70/80% of scottish voters

      You have tried this trick before, and frankly it is a complete fabrication that is unworthy of this site. EFTA/EEA is NOT SNP policy, not in the past, not currently, and there is no sign it will change any time soon. As you well know.
      —————————

      except the present “compromise” position of the snp is for the whole of the UK or at least scotland to stay in the single market and the customs union. sometimes called the Norway option or efta/eea
      ———————————–

      Have an opinion by all means, but be man enough to defend it as yours, and leave off this disreputable tendency to project your own opinions onto others without a shred of evidence in support. You demean yourself and you insult us.
      ———————-

      I seem to have defended it? no

    145. Bill McLean says:

      Excuse bad wording – should have said “there are few with guts and his grasp of politics around”!

    146. David Wardrope says:

      I think among other things he shot himself in the foot with his original stance, as his reasoning would naturally extend to all SNP MPs/MSPs following the party pledge of independence, meaning he could no longer use the “the people voted no” excuse.

    147. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      From the Guardian online an article about local councils investing some of their pension funds in arms companies.
      http://archive.is/4XSR6

      Lothian Council (sic) seems to be the biggest investor. No link within the article to the actual report as far as I could see.

      Interesting given the hooha a few months ago about the Scottish Government giving money to an arms company to allow it to diversify. It is one of the companies mentioned in the article.

    148. galamcennalath says:

      Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the Confederation of British Industry says there must not be a No Deal Brexit because the damage would be too great.

      Since when did the Tories NOT do exactly what the CBI wanted?

    149. Abulhaq says:

      The discrediting of North Brit Unionism must be the priority. The SNP has taken its eye off the ball during the current situation, it has to refocus on the target, the demolition of the case against restored sovereignty and independence.
      The ‘conservative’ right in Scotland, logically, ought to be pro-independence, with its intrinsic themes of national autonomy, responsibility and self-reliance which C&U party types claim to represent, than it is. The coin has yet to drop among them that 300 years of playing colonial factors for a foreign power has yielded little and has certainly not promoted anything like autonomy and self-reliance.
      The possible demise of the UK as a serious player on the world stage ought to be sounding alarms.
      Even the not-too-bright among Ruth’s crew must be hearing the signal to prepare to reconsider the options.

    150. Glamaig says:

      Richard Leonard on GMS this morning!! What a clown. He refuses to take a view on anything, he defers everything to UK Labour, he clearly isn’t the ‘leader’ of anything so why even interview him?

      Gillian whatsherface is a the softest of interviewers and even she showed him up as a gibbering idiot.

      Any Labour activist listening to that would be cringing.

    151. winifred mccartney says:

      QT last night Jo Swinton taking credit for the slashing of knife crime in Glasgow – did not mention once the Scottish Govt. They learned well how to lie at the feet of their masters.

      Fiona Bruce certainly sharper then DD and equally abrasive to both sides of WM, but third biggest party not represented AGAIN.

    152. galamcennalath says:

      Abulhaq says:

      The ‘conservative’ right in Scotland, logically …. 300 years of playing colonial factors for a foreign power

      Yes and No.

      As recently at the early 50s, Churchill as leader of the English Conservative party appealed to his Scottish Unionist allies with the argument that Labour’s centralist agenda threatened Scotland’s influence within the Union. This argument was successful.

      In the past the right (including huge swathes of the working class) supported the Union, however perhaps they felt the Union was a more genuine partnership?

      With centralisation of state and state owned/controlled industry the UK did become more London centric. And with this the ruling and influential classes ‘aspired’ to a SE England image personally.

      Basically IMO many Tory voters in Scotland are basically now wannabe English. I’m not so sure their great grandparents felt the same. The Union served a different purpose when there was an Empire to plunder.

    153. Nana says:

      Sorry for late links, got a nasty virus 🙁

      “This hypocritical double-speak will not wash much longer in Scotland”
      Mhairi Black speech
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHFA-rxvpc

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/01/10/tories-the-real-sex-pests/

      Halt universal credit roll-out to save people from poverty: Nicola Sturgeon
      http://archive.is/yCRxO

      Comparable Countries
      http://scotsindependent.scot/?p=2355

    154. admiral says:

      Caesar! 46 says:
      11 January, 2019 at 10:24 am
      Re the AS and NS meetings.
      The SUN editorial today:-
      “The First Minister of Scotland was meeting with a former First Minister, alongside her top special adviser to hold discussions on a Government inquiry into allegations effecting Government staff. That’s Government business”
      NS stated yesterday in parliament that there was no discussions about the allegations but it was SNP business.
      To print the above editorial the Scottish SUN obviously has evidence that the allegations against AS were being discussed so why don’t they print it?
      AS, NS and the special adviser were at the first meeting and only AS and NS were at the subsequent meetings / phone calls. Therefor the so called evidence must have came from NS special adviser who was present at the first meeting.
      Thats the only conclusion that can be arrived at. I’m sure the SUN will print their evidence in due course – NOT.
      Another unionist rag printing lies and innuendo without any evidence to back it up. Mickey mouse journalism from a unionist comic publication

      It’s the French ambassador all over again, as well as deja vue!

    155. Gary45% says:

      Legerwood@10.47
      Highland Palestine have been running a campaign for a while now, highlighting Highland Council having a part of their pension in a company called General Dynamics, which make weapons that are being used in the murder of innocent Palestinians.
      Please have a look at their Facebook page for more info :-
      en-gb.facebook.com/HighlandPalestine/
      and the 38 Degrees petition web page :-
      you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/highland-council-pension-fund-stop-funding-war-crimes-3?source=facebook-share-button&time=1528487894.
      It is probable that all councils state they support ethical investments, but turn a blind eye to the truth, call out your local councils on this issue.
      To call out any investment on this issue does not make you,
      Anti Semitic.(Yes they will try and accuse you).

    156. Nana says:

      Posted some more but they are in moderation, probably as there are five links.
      Hopefully Rev will clear them as they are worth reading.

    157. Giving Goose says:

      Nana,

      Re the Hector Macdonald monument in Dingwall, I must admit to feeling better recently when I saw that the Saltire was flying from it.
      There were long periods when the Butcher’s Apron was fluttering from the flag pole and, driving back from my weekly shop at Tesco’s, I seriously wondered if the tower could be climbed and that rag removed.

      Anyway, the view from the top is awesome lol.

    158. Nana says:

      Morning Goose, I must admit to never having climbed the tower (fear of heights) I imagine the view is fantastic.

      Let’s hope the council will heed the petition, share the petition so they get lots of signatures.

    159. Abulhaq says:

      @galamcennalath
      Good point, the quasi city state of London has queered the pitch. The super concentration of power and influence, not to mention wealth, in the English south east is of serious concern to us of course but the major English cities outside the zone are concerned too. Is London power grabbing Birmingham, for example, turning it into a satellite London borough? The HS rail schemes seem more about enhancing communications with London than devolving power and wealth outwards.
      No state in Europe has anything like a capital city with the overbearing and bullying ‘clout’ of London. If Scottish Unionists envisage that kind of metropolitan socio-cultural-economic hegemonic dependency as the desirable working out of the grand Union scheme, fine, let them be honest and present the case for the effective abolition of Scotland/NB.
      It would expose them as the wee Anglo-Wannabees that Unionism in its purest inferiority complexed, ‘Scotch Cringe’ form has often been a sub rosa platform for.
      Scottish ‘conservatism’ will go the same way of Scottish ‘socialism’ à la Labour, if it does not cut itself free from this existential millstone.
      A great pity because it is time we had more ideological choice on the independence ticket.

    160. Ken500 says:

      The Daily Record and the SUN are going to be sued big time. It might just shut up their piss as they descend into the gutter. Intent on annoying folk. The iignorant plot on the landscape intent on destroying the Scottish economy. They are absolutely deplorable. Agents of the British State. Tax evaders. Sanctionig and starving people. Getting way with murder. Disgusting people. Leeches. Blood suckers. Trying to bring down an honourable person. The despicable Press on the way to the knackers yard. Destroying their own industry with their lies.

    161. Gary45% says:

      Ken500@12.08
      Had a wee look at the Gutter Headlines in the shop this morning, GARBAGE doesn’t even come close.

    162. geeo says:

      EU Withdrawal Agreement ‘debate’

      Jim Fitzpatrick (LABOUR MP for Poplar and Limehouse) stands uo and declares he would have voted down treeza’s deal in december, but now he is more likely to vote FOR her deal as it is that or no deal.

      The Labour Party in a nutshell.

    163. I voted to leave the e.u. For various reasons but the main ones were the ones in charge are not elected and the books have never been seen or accounted for so how people who want independence for Scotland would want to remain in the e.u. Is beyond me at least in the u.k. We vote in our people in charge of us and the books are open to be seen I want Scotland to be independent as much as anyone but to get rid of one master and then take on 27others is not the independence that I want freedom to me means complete freedom not partcial

    164. Dr Jim and others

      Re my friend’s grandaughter being told by her local council that the Scottish government had the power to control Universal Credit –

      Serendipity has intervened – as a result of the current COURT case being won by the working single mums who had to take the WM government to court to prove their case, it will be all over the news that it is WM who ultimately controls Universal Credit.

      That should clarify the matter for a whole host of other recipients too.

      To be fair, I did some research on the matter and it seems that the Scottish Gov has been working on introducing some flexibility in payments from monthly to possible weekly, to help cope, so perhaps the Council worker was partially right but being ‘conservative’ with the truth.
      At least now the flexibility will be altered from WM.

      Can’t believe the single Mums had to go to Court to get the change made in the payments.
      What a government – creating hellish austerity and daring anyone who challenges it to take them to Court to win out.
      Here is an example of the unfairness they were fighting against:

      When calculating universal credit, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) sets assessment periods for each person to look at how much they earn – from the 1st of the month to the end of the month, for example.
      But lawyers for the mothers said a problem arises when claimants are paid by employers on a date which “clashes” with their assessment period.
      For example, they pointed out that if a claimant is paid early because of a weekend or bank holiday, the system counts them as having been paid twice in one month and they receive a “vastly reduced” universal credit payment.

      A caring Government – Aye, right.

    165. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T
      Al Jazeera’s programme OCEAN MONOPOLY, a very interesting watch, there’s a bit that touches on shifting sea borders which is exactly like the stolen seas in the Noth Sea !

    166. Not doubting that these are harrowing times for Nicola sturgeon as the Establishment steps up its attempts to smear her and the SNP through the hoo-ha around Alex but my quick check of the UK newspaper front pages shows that there is not a single mention of ‘the debacle’ anywhere.

      This leads me to deduce that it is a storm in a Sottish tea-cup driven purely to ambush independence. It won’t work!

      As has been stated above, NS and AS are two of the most astute politicians around. If Nicola had wanted to meet Alex to discuss things privately I don’t think she would have taken her assistant with her.

    167. manandboy says:

      O/T. ww.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/46798931
      “Michael Johnson: How ‘Superman’ Olympic champion’s world was changed by stroke” (Actually a TIA)

      At around 1pm today, the 75 comments to this article by Tom Reynolds were removed without trace. Any info anyone?

    168. HandandShrimp says:

      I haven’t bothered looking at the papers but I daresay they are still raging that Alex won his case. The rancid ramblings and speculation of third rate hacks is to be expected. They need to hammer some sort of SNP bad out of this even if it does look a bit pathetic.

      Given everything that is happening in real politics and the economy I fear these sad excuses for political journalists will spend all their pennies in the sideshows.

    169. Gutted for Andy Murray! What a true hero.

      He will come through this but just now it must be a horrendous period for him.

      Huge admiration for his fortitude, his skill, his courage and his sheer stubbornness to win.

      A great example to the Indy movement.

    170. manandboy says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      11 January, 2019 at 1:00 pm
      “I voted to leave the e.u. For various reasons but the main ones were the ones in charge are not elected and the books have never been seen or accounted for so how people who want independence for Scotland would want to remain in the e.u. Is beyond me at least in the u.k. We vote in our people in charge of us and the books are open to be seen I want Scotland to be independent as much as anyone but to get rid of one master and then take on 27others is not the independence that I want freedom to me means complete freedom not partcial”

      Disingenuous covers this comment, Blair. It means basically, pretending not to know or understand the truth. It is one of the hallmarks of the BritNat trolls.

    171. geeo says:

      Ian Murray slavering down his chin at WM a few minutes ago…

      https://m.facebook.com/groups/237578533089567?view=permalink&id=1144075099106568

    172. Bobp says:

      ” we vote in our people in charge of us ” . NO. Scotland did not vote the Tories in charge of Scotland.

    173. Dorothy Devine says:

      manandboy, hear! hear!

      Wonder if he feels the House of Lords is past its sell buy date too – after all , they are unelected ,get 300 quid a day for turning up , quaffing vintage champagne and guzzling gourmet food, all subsidised by you , me and every other wee tax payer.

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 11 January, 2019 at 1:00 pm:

      ” … I voted to leave the e.u. For various reasons but the main ones were the ones in charge are not elected …

      Utter pish! Every European Union member is elected. That’s why they are called MSP, Members of the European Parliament.

      The EC, is the European Commission, (the clue is in the title) – these are Commissioners. That is the EC officials are paid, (commissioned), employees of the EU. and paid employees are not elected.

      they are the Civil Service of the EU and thus they have absolutely no decision making powers. They are paid to administrate and advise only.

      Advice, though, is just that, advice or recommendations, that the elected European Parliamentarians can, and sometimes do, ignore or amend for they are elected by the EU citizens.

    175. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Paterson

      “…ones in charge are not elected…”

      Stop posting utter pish. Here’s the reality:

      https://i.imgur.com/A9dYYVs.jpg

    176. geeo says:

      Paterson must not have read (or not understood) this post by yesindyref2.
      …….

      Scotland (8.2% by population) + Wales (4.8%) for a total of 13.0% of the UK population (not even inclduing NI), and HALF i.e. 50% of the apparent nations of the UK, were unable to stop the EU Withdrawal Bill.

      If the UK had QMV, same as the EU has, then with that 13% we would have been able to stop the EU WIthdrawal Bill, or at least force changes meaning no power grab.

      For illustration of how QMV works in the EU Council, if Scotland was a member and the UK gone, there would be 28 member states. For any legislation similar to that dreadful power-grabbing UK Bill, it would only need 13 out of 28 of the EU-28 to vote against it, in fact 45% of the member states NOT population, and it would not pass.

      Even if those 13 states were the absolute smallest including Malta at 440,000 compared to Germany’s 83 million, the vote in the first stage of QMV is of equal value.

      So Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Croatia, Ireland, SCOTLAND, Slovakia, Finland and Denmark with a total population of 40 million could stop EU legislation for a population of 450 million – less than 9% of the total EU population.

      The EU is so much more inclusive of small nations than the UK is.
      ……………….

    177. CameronB Brodie says:

      Congratulations to Douglas Ross for committing to ethical political practice.

      ETHICS CODES AND CODES OF CONDUCT AS TOOLS FOR
      PROMOTING AN ETHICAL AND PROFESSIONAL PUBLIC SERVICE:
      Comparative Successes and Lessons

      https://www.oecd.org/mena/governance/35521418.pdf

    178. Cubby says:

      Blair Paterson @1.00pm

      “the books are open to be seen” …the UK books are transparent are they? You say you are an independence supporter and you think then that the UK tells the truth re Scotlands revenues and resources.

      “…get rid of one master and then take on 27 others” Just nonsense. The sort of crap a Britnat would say.

      A lot really is beyond you. – as you say yourself

    179. Dr Jim says:

      @Meg

      I hope your friend manages at last to see what’s going on and is the better for the benefit of knowing how good a friend you really are

    180. Cubby says:

      Nana

      I have read a lot of your links but I don’t think I have ever thanked you for all your hard work in providing this service, so

      NANA THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Keep on linking.

    181. Capella says:

      One of the comments in Prof Robertsons excellent article (Nana’s link) on Tory sex pests has a link to this site:

      https://timetostartcaring.com

      which is a compilation of lists – yes lists – of MPs and other prominent figures who have been convicted of sex crimes. An instance of lists which are worth publishing IMO.

      Grim

    182. Proud Cybernat says:

      Feel the British Nationalist love, Scotland:

      https://i.imgur.com/5SkV62D.jpg

      “Precious Union” y’say?

    183. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ BritNat Paterson

      Books y’say?

      Well cop this – the only official account of how much Scotland is subsidising the rUK. From 1999 but it hasn’t changed. Now you can see why WM wants to keep Scotland’s vast wealth a hidden secret:

      https://i.imgur.com/hhK1S1i.jpg

    184. Maria F says:

      Wow!!!

      That was quick and a tad cheesy and staged for being really heartfelt.

      It is almost miraculous that Mr Ross has just remember that he promised to be the voice of Moray in Westminster and not the other way round when so far, I think I only remember ONE instance when he voted actively AGAINST the interests of Westminster and in favour of Moray’s interest.

      Now, why do I think tories (and labour) from Scotland are not really that sincere at all or mindful of the interests of their constituents but rather they appear to be simply maneuvering and positioning themselves in the best place for an imminent GE?

    185. CameronB Brodie says:

      Len McCluskey is a “Christian Communist”, so his personal morality tends towards totalitarian authoritarianism. This may be why he is able to support British nationalism. Len McCluskey is not a moderate and rational individual.

      Christian Communism
      https://www.culturematters.org.uk/images/pdf/CM%20book%20Roland%20Boer%20Christian%20Communism%20final%20ebook%20%2021%20Dec.pdf

      “Can A Christian Be a Communist?” Sermon Delivered at Ebenezer Baptist Church
      https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/can-christian-be-communist-sermon-delivered-ebenezer-baptist-church

      Christian Communism: An Impossible Contradiction
      https://ethikapolitika.org/2013/10/17/christian-communism-impossible-contradiction/

    186. Marie Clark says:

      Nana, great crop of links again as per usual. Sorry to hear that you have a virus, they can be really nasty wee so and so’s. Look after yourself, and get well soon.

      Thanks again.

    187. Cactus says:

      Douglas Ross is a river muppet:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuCocEQWms

      Same goes for the remainder of their shoal.

      All blaw an nae bite.

    188. wull2 says:

      The alarm clock is ticking down to waken up the remaining sleepers. It will soon be time to get in the lifeboat and to boat (I mean vote)

    189. McBoxheid says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      11 January, 2019 at 1:31 pm

      Here’s the reality:

      https://i.imgur.com/A9dYYVs.jpg
      ————————————
      Interesting that the UK has 8 times as many civil servants!

    190. Cactus says:

      Ah’ve found some more footage of Douglas Ross, politician, but this was him before he was a River Muppet, back then he was a p…:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4YnOSVqlmY

      How do YOU perceive the video above to be?

      a) Funny
      b) Mocking or
      c) Something else

      It’s just a matter of taste, yeah. 😉

      Sluich!

    191. Phydaux says:

      Many thanks Stuart for laugh out loud moments re Douglas Ross…he sure was rumbled on here by Stuart’s excellent analysis of the deep malaise at the heart of the political establishment.Well done to Peter for asking the right questions and placing, on record, one of Mr Ross’s core beliefs…i.e. he couldn’t care less about his constituents, an almost blessed indifference to their needs and wishes.

      He now seems a wee bit panicky.Saw this and thought of you Mr Ross:
      He is a human tumbleweed; Goes where the wind blows him;Will blow away tomorrow;Nobodywill miss him.

      I look forward to an Indy Scotland where our elected public servants work together to serve in the best interests of the people of Scotland….an end to tribal politics and to the deep, cancerous river of hate which courses through the veins of all British Nationalist Politicians regarding our right to self government.We have an outstanding calibre of MPS who will do us proud when they come home.A proper PR political system, similar to some of the civilised mainland European nations, where dialogue, compromise and humility are the norm.

    192. Cubby says:

      Cactus@2.38pm

      Can Douglas Ross swallow a person whole.. If he can that solves the mystery.

    193. wull2 says:

      What I want to know, is the exit point just as big as the entry point, as he talks some amount of s****

    194. Cactus says:

      Afternoon Cubby, ah reckon he’d give it a try.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIl2DSXUffw

      But then, the Tories ARE eating themselves alive.

      (WARNING: Viewer discretion advised)

    195. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Interesting that the UK has 8 times as many civil servants!”

      I presume because the UK controls ~90% of the laws (and thus ministerial departments) in the UK.

    196. Cubby says:

      Cactus@3.47 pm

      The warning is well justified. GROSS

    197. stewartb says:

      Re- Universal Credit (UC) and its roll out in Scotland. This is such a toxic policy that it’s really important not only that it is paused/reformed (the critically important thing) but politically that responsibility for it is placed where it properly lies i.e. in Westminster … and not Holyrood!

      As we know, UC is a UK-wide scheme and reserved to Westminster: the SG does not decide the value of the UC payment or who receives it. UC falls outside the scope of the SG’s new social security agency. However, the Scotland Act 2016 is being used by the SG to offer ‘choices’ to people claiming UC.

      The SG has taken steps to modify the way UC benefits are paid in Scotland, known as ‘Universal Credit (Scottish choices)’. These mitigation measures give UC claimants the following options:

      – being paid UC twice a month rather than monthly; and
      – having their UC housing element being paid directly to their landlords.

      There is a useful explanation of ‘Scottish choices’ here: https://www.gov.scot/publications/universal-credit-new-choices-people-living-scotland/

      So once again our Scottish Government is acting to mitigate some of the worst impacts of London rule. Far from a full solution to UC but I suspect helpful none the less.

    198. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus Funny Mocking & Your something else LoL

    199. dave Stewart says:

      Rudd has just created Second class citizens in England.
      If your date of birth is after April 2017 and you are a Third Child, no benefits.
      Strangely the cut off date seems to be based on when the policy was created but NOT when the citizen was created.
      What have these wee souls done to deserve this treatment.
      Bet William’s third child will have no problem getting National Support for the rest of their life.
      Fairness in rUk as long as you’re part of the establishment.

    200. Thepnr says:

      The absolutely crazy mad mental thing about this Universal Credit third child policy is that we actually need to increase the number of young people in the country who will eventually become workers and help pay the benefits and pensions for the old.

      It’s a double whammy, the Tories intend (or pretend) to want to get the number of immigrants down and at the same time are deliberately introducing polices that discourage UK citizens from having more than two children.

      Totally farcical policy but the two are very closely related to what the Tories core voter seeks. Out with the dirty immigrants and those that sponge from the state don’t deserve help. This kind of thinking is ridiculous and it will all be changed again when the number of working age people begin to fall to pay for the rise in the elderly.

      Wait and see, give it a few decades and we’ll be paying Family Allowance again to encourage bigger families and offering Europeans free transport to the UK and a guaranteed job like the Windrush generation!

      Crazy bastards.

    201. Cactus says:

      Aweright fellow Scot, Andy Murray, cheers for the games.

      Fancy a new challenge…?

      Howsabout the chief of the Yes2 Scotland independence campaign…

      Ah reckon you could be quite influential.

      You have the necessary Passion.

      Yer NOW FREE to be.

    202. Bobp says:

      Stewart 3.55pm. At least by getting the choice to pay their landlord direct. There should be less evictions in Scotland for none payment of rent,as opposed to England and Wales.

    203. Maria F says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      11 January, 2019 at 1:00 pm
      “At least in the u.k. we vote in our people in charge of us”

      Actually no, Blair Paterson. In the UK ENGLAND votes in the people in charge of us.

      “and the books are open to be seen”
      Are they? Since when? Where exactly are those books? Please can you provide a link to those books so we can all have a good look at their contents?
      Now, do those books include ALL the economic exchanges between Scotland and Westminster, between Scotland and England and between England and Westminster?

      “to get rid of one master and then take on 27others is not the independence”
      The EU is not the kind of absolute ruler master the UKgov is.

      PLease do not forget about the UK treasury books, Blair Paterson. You say they are open to everybody to be seen, so you must know where they are kept and how to access them. I am most keen to scrutinise the financial figures in those books from beginning to end.

      Thank you.

    204. Pete says:

      Blair Paterson
      Tend to agree with you.
      All the idiots on here are desperate to join up with the hopelessly failing EU.
      GDP in France, Germany and Italy is worse than the UK despite Brexit and the euro has impoverished the Southern European nations with unemployment at very high levels and much worse than in Scotland and the UK.
      Why do so many want to come here?
      I’m for an independent Scotland but not within the EU.

    205. geeo says:

      Oh dear, pete.

      When you start by claiming to agree with Blair Paterson, your credibility immediately evaporates.

      You certainly didn’t disappoint with the tter drivel which followed.

    206. Thepnr says:

      @Pete

      You see here’s the problem Pete and it’s that you’ve stated a falsehood. GDP per capita is what matters and when it comes to that then the UK is only 14th out of 28 EU countries.

      Of course UK GDP is bigger than say Ireland’s, more than 10 times bigger but they have less than 5 million people whereas the UK has 65 million. So the GDP per capita in Ireland at $70,638 is 70% greater than the UK’s at $39,734.

      The poor average Irishman is 70% richer on average than the poor average Brit.

      This is one of the problems with Brexiteers, a failure to educate yourselves as to the actual facts rather than the bullshit put out by Rees-Fucking-Mogg ot Boris-Dumbasfuck-Johnson.

      Yeah, might sound harsh but in your case it’s warranted.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    207. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Pete –

      ‘All the idiots on here…’

      Genuine question: why do you refer to the commenters here in that fashion?

      Does it enhance your argument in any way, or make us more inclined to show tolerance for what is already a dangerously aggressive pro-Brexit movement?

      I’m not speaking for anyone else here, but I come to WOS to learn, to get a feel for where a variety of indy-related debates are headed. We’ve always had to put up with trolls and a fair smattering of know-it-alls and dullards, but the kind of rudeness you exhibited above is particularly unwelcome.

      (That’s the polite way of putting it.)

    208. Thepnr says:

      Oh and Pete, Germany and France are both ahead of the UK on GDP per capita with Italy the only one you got right being one place behind the UK.

    209. Nana says:

      Thanks Cubby

      @Marie
      I’ve had this virus since Monday, it’s a coughing & aching one and very tiring.

      Here’s something for the evening for anyone interested. There are a few familiar faces there

      video replay of todays @CIFA_Scot inshore fishing conference
      https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/CIFA2019summit/videos/185676045

    210. Thepnr says:

      And finally Pete.

      Germany and France have a larger GDP and not just GDP per capita than the UK. You really done fecked up here posting crap statistics. You will be pulled up.

      https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/GDP

    211. Cactus says:

      Imagine Sir Andy Murray WAS the Chief of the Yes to Scotland independence campaign 2019.

      His ‘Sir’ title would assist in enlightening previously misguided SBN voters to vote Yes this time and it would aussi wind-up the SBN politicians no end.

      He wouldn’t need to convince us Yessers, cause we’re already there.

      Dare them to retract it!

    212. robin says:

      off topic
      just makes me laugh when I read about ‘Britains greatest ever tennis player retiring’
      I wish the independence supporting tennis player a very deserved retirement from a sport he has graced

    213. wull2 says:

      Hope you did not get the virus off the door knob, or was it a virus affecting your computer, if its any of those, Indepdancs will cure it.

    214. Pete says:

      Thepnr
      I’m talking about current movements in GDP which I think is more important.
      You would have imagined that Uk would be dropping like a stone compared to other EU nations but it isn’t.
      You conveniently make no mention of unemployment, especially amongst the youth which, I imagine, is why so many come here looking for low paid employment.
      I’m sorry, your vision of EU good, UK bad just doesn’t stack up

    215. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Thepnr

      The BritNat trolls that frequent WoS will come with their own (ahem) ‘facts’, spout them and expect everyone to bow to their genius. They do not realise that WoS isn’t a hatefest of frothing seps but rather a well-educated site of indy-supporting political anoraks (i wear that as a badge of pride btw).

      And I truly believe that the BritNats who come here with their (ahem) stats probably believe their (ahem) stats cuz some BritNat airhead elsewhere told them it was the gospel truth and they didn’t have the acumen to check for themselves if that were so – they just accept (you know, like a Daily Fail & Depress reader).

      In short, if another BritNat tells them something that fits with their world view, they just accept it as the ‘truth’ – confirmation bias run rampant. They would blow holes in both their feet if someone told them it would allow the NHS to get an extra £350 million a week. . .

      . . .oh, wait!

    216. Proud Cybernat says:

      Which is more democratic, the UK or the EU?

      You decide:

      https://i.imgur.com/A9dYYVs.jpg

    217. Maria F says:

      Pete says:
      11 January, 2019 at 5:07 pm

      “All the idiots on here are desperate to join up with the hopelessly failing EU”

      Why do you insult us?

      According to Wikipedia (accessed 11th January by searching under “political warfare”), PSYOPS denotes “any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people”

      If you scroll down in the document, you find a strange word with a link: JTRIG.

      Nosy as I am, when I clicked on it this surfaces:

      JTRIG: “The Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group.
      is a unit of the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), the British intelligence agency.The existence of JTRIG was revealed as part of the global surveillance disclosures in documents leaked by the former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden”
      “The scope of the JTRIG’s mission includes using “dirty tricks” to “destroy, deny, degrade [and] disrupt enemies by “discrediting” them, planting misinformation and shutting down their communications. The slides also disclose the deployment of “honey traps” of a sexual nature by British intelligence agents”

      so, again, why do you call us idiots?
      Are you trying to degrade and discredit us?

      “GDP in France, Germany and Italy is worse than the UK despite Brexit”

      Brexit has not even started so you are making a false assertion.

      And why do you say “the euro has impoverished the Southern European nations” when that is not true and none of those nations would even entertain the idea of ditching the euro?

      Are you trying to misinform us, Pete?

      Why?

    218. Dr Jim says:

      The EU 27 has trade deals with over 60 other countries in the world so being Independent outwith the EU cannot make trade deals with these countries on better terms then they already have with the EU so being outwith the EU disadvantages any country from the benefits of membership of a trading block of around 100 countries

      No country within the trading sphere of the EU can offer better terms to any country outside it or they would face financial difficulties from the trading block

      Englands dream of Empire Independence is a complete and total fabrication, a myth, a nonsense, a dead parrot and those who began this debacle know it, but those same people who have done this have done it for entirely reasons of their own otherwise people like Jacob Reese Mogg wouldn’t have immediately shifted his companies business to Dublin Luxemburg and Belgium if he so much faith in good old England

      Brexit for the rich and richer is about more richness, Brexit for the punter is about poverty and thanks for a loaf of bread your worship

      The *British* motor industry is on the verge of collapse with Jaguar Land Rover laying off 4.500 workers, in April Honda is to close to re evaluate its business in the UK, many financial service companies in England have already relocated to the EU

      The *British* don’t like co-operation with others they want to rule others but now in the 21st century others won’t let them do that, so as my old granny used to say, the world will let them “hing as they grow” and England can faux pretend to be a power to be reckoned with but they’re not, it’s just they can’t get used to the idea they’re not number one anymore and won’t be again so they’ve conned Joe Public with this Brexit crap so they the rich folk can just get richer and to hell with the rest of us

      Now watch the promises from the UK flow out about better health services, more money for everybody, land of milk and honey is coming, be patriotic, fly some Yoon flags and have a street party to capture the Dunkirk spirit, Oh and by the way Prince Philip’s deid any minute so another reason to be *British* God save the Queen and all who sail in her

      Why are they so desperate to keep Scotland?

      Well somebody’s got to pay the bill, but if Scotland’s out of the UK and in the EU it doesn’t have to be us because we’ll be in a club with half a billion members just like the Republic of Ireland is now, and who’s side are the EU on? along with the rest of the world?

      The biggest trading block in the world that’s who

    219. Thepnr says:

      @Pete

      Last response from me as you have proven to be what you accused others here of being “an idiot” in fact you’re a total buffoon like Johnson who no doubt you worship.

      Since the vote for Leave in the referendum in 2016 the value of UK currency has fallen by 16% against the Euro and 12% against the dollar. That really matters, our domestic GDP in pounds squeaked up around 3% since then but our overall standing in terms of GDP when measured in dollars or Euros has fallen by around 15%.

      To make a comparison between GDP then it can only be done using that same currency and it wouldn’t matter which because all these other currencies have strengthened against the UK’s by as much as ours has fallen, imagine that LOL.

      Don’t you get it Pete, Brexit has made us poorer already and it hasn’t even happened for real yet and if we crash out then the pain will begin. Be careful what you wish for.

      Yes there are “idiots” that post on Wings and you’re absolutely a candidate for being at the top of the pile.

    220. Pete, the U.K. criteria for employment is 1 hours work in TWO WEEKS.

    221. Cactus says:

      Digital countdown clock till No Deal May-day:
      0 years, 0 months, 0 days, 6 hours, 00 minutes.

      Count me down Susie D.

    222. jezza says:

      The Evening Standard:-

      “Delay to Brexit on way, Cabinet ministers reveal”

      Brexit looks increasingly likely to be delayed beyond the scheduled exit of March 29, Cabinet ministers today revealed to the Standard.

      A backlog of at least six essential Bills that must be passed before Britain leaves the European Union has left ministers convinced the timetable will be extended.

      They include the much-delayed Immigration Bill that has not yet even been published, let alone debated.

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/delay-to-brexit-on-way-cabinet-ministers-reveal/ar-BBS6b78?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=U452DHP

    223. Cactus says:

      Oops a bit excited there, soon but no that soon like…

      Digital countdown clock till No Deal May-day:
      0 years, 0 months, 3 days, 5 hours, XX minutes.

      May down.

    224. Cactus says:

      Two and a bit days to go… is this the Brexit effect hehe!

    225. Davie Oga says:

      Pete

      Thanks for providing a timely reminder of the alternative reality of the Brexiteer. Aside from your erroneous gdp figures, the amount of immigration from the likes of Spain and Italy has halved since the referendum. Total EU immigration to the UK has dropped to its lowest level in 5 years, with % 40 of new arrivals coming from two countries, neither of which is in southern Europe. You may “feel” like impoverished Spaniards are desperate to come and steal your jobs/ claim your dole but I can assure you that they aren’t. Like other prosperous, cultured, educated Europeans, they are repulsed by the nasty, insular society that the likes of you idealize.

    226. Cactus says:

      Patsy kens:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPsk1qIdXU

      This is FUN! 🙂

    227. jezza says:

      Cactus

      Andy lost something the day he accepted that Knighthood.

      If he hands it back in when he returns home to Scotland then I might have a rethink on my opinion of him, but until then the jury is still out.

      Sorry mate, i just cannae go that English Establishment mob and awe their handouts to a select few.

      They can stick their knighthoods right up their ermine robes.

      I will NEVER address anyone as Sir…

    228. Hamish100 says:

      It’s terrible for anyone’s career to end.

      I have a friend who injured her back nearly 10 years ago in a caring profession (private care home). Several slipped discs and no longer works in an industry helping others.

      Cost to NHS -for ever , cost to the family – main breadwinner- for ever.

      Just sayin……

    229. Cactus says:

      Evenin’ jezza ~

      “I will NEVER address anyone as Sir…”

      Aye same here, nor would aye ever have one refer to one, as Sir in a similar way.

      Good tae see ye posting Winger jezza.

      Awe hands oan deck. 🙂

    230. jezza says:

      Cactus

      your sounds are good, lol

    231. jezza says:

      Catus

      I thought that was Patsy Kensit, it was Patsy Cline.

      Nothing wrong with a wee bit of Patsy Cline right enough LOL!!!

    232. Cubby says:

      GDP Per capita is what counts unless you want to be a big bully on the world stage and strut about with nuclear weapons and large military capability (e.g.bloody massive aircraft carriers).

      Always worth remembering that most of the top ten wealthiest countries are small countries. The most stupid Britnat comment “Scotland is too small to be independent”.

      What they really mean is that without Scotland England will be too small to strut about bullying other countries.

    233. Thepnr says:

      @Cubby

      Absolutely correct, the richest countries in the world are small independent European countries that are either a full member of the EU or a member of both EFTA/EEA.

      Only two of them have oil as well which currently is claimed by the UK accountants in the Treasury to be “Ex-Regio” as if it belongs to nobody.

    234. Dr Jim says:

      Don’t judge Andy for the wrong reasons:

      I used to call my teachers Sir, I address other men as Sir quite often, in Dundee Sir is common usage

      I think perhaps the use of the word Sir only causes offence when it’s used in deference to a UK enoblement and that’s completely understandable

      As for Andy Murray he is a professional athlete and all athletes in order to pusue their career embrace whatever brings them success it doesn’t mean they support wholeheartdly the inferences that others put on that for their own ends, if a welly boot was the flag of a particular country the athlete will wave it around or suffer if he/she doesn’t

      When you’re a young athlete if you refuse to take part in the *British* system then you don’t get to take part at all, or run or swim or whatever your particular sport might be, you get frozen out

      I myself was a promising young swimmer a long time ago at 15 years of age who didn’t want to go to London

      I didn’t get to swim competitively again

      They’re lovely people the *British* ask the rest of the world they’ll tell you of their loveliness

    235. Iain mhor says:

      I always wonder if all the EU denigrators ever travel through mainland Europe, and I don’t mean two weeks at the Don Bigote.
      I travel throughout frequently and such claims are a joke.We are decades behind, and always have been since my auld man got of the boat in the 50’s during his service and said it was like stepping into another world.
      Scotland can catch up but tied to English politics – never.
      So I challenge anyone suggesting anywhere in Europe is economically and socially worse than Scotland to name it.
      Christ, the Eastern European nations are barely 50 years out of Communism and still make Scotland look like Clydebank in the blitz.

    236. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus some ducktape n staples should get me back together again .www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG-8uZg2uV0

    237. @Phydaux,

      `I look forward to an Indy Scotland where our elected public servants work together to serve in the best interests of the people of Scotland`,

      hope you`re right,

      but, even with Independence, Scottish politics/media will still be infested by crooks,chancers,liars,rogues,scoundrels,stooges,con artists,perjurers,

      basically the whole gamut of `bad c@nts`.

    238. Dr Jim says:

      The only people afraid of democracy are those who don’t want you to have it

    239. yesindyref2 says:

      Fact Check
      —————

      Germany 82,800,000
      France 67,024,500
      United Kingdom 65,808,600
      Italy 60,589,400
      Spain 46,529,000
      Poland 37,973,000

      EU-28 total 511,805,000 (all 2017 figures)

      Total of those 6 member states 360,723,500. That’s over 70% of the total population of the EU.

      If those 6 biggest member states try to pull a fast one and pass legislation which favours them against the 22 smaller states, they FAIL on QMV, as they only have 6 out of 28 votes on the first stage of QMV. In fact they need 15 out of 28 to get their way.

      Can you imagine the UK being so democratic towards its smaller partners – Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

      In the UK England has 85% of the vote, and one country, just one, can outvote all the other 3 countries in the UK.

      So much for anyone who thinks the UK is more democratic than the EU – that’s FALSE.

    240. yesindyref2 says:

      The EC – European Commission – that Brexiteers are so mad at complaining against, it’s so undemocartic, autocratic, dictorial – is indeed undemocratic, it’s not elected, it’s appointed.

      It’s appointed BY or under control of the European Parliament, which consists of 751 MEPs, ELECTED by their member state constituencies, one of which is ELECTED as the President.

      The EP has a minimum of 6 members per Member State, and no Member State is to be allocated more than 96 seats – by TREATY (Lisbon).

      So Malta with 440,000 population has 6 MEPs (the same number as Scotland as part of the UK), that’s 1 MEP per 73,000 head of population, whereas German with 83 million only has 96, that’s 1 MEP per 865,000 head of popualtion.

      Indy Scotland would have 13 MEPs – that’s 1 MEP per 410,000 head of population.

      The EU in all ways favours smaller states. The UK pisses on us.

      https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/

      (just a little out of date)

    241. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      I have no doubt that the UK is the LEAST democratic country in the EU, most already have proportional representation and do not have an UNELECTED second chamber like the House of Lords which is something out of the dark ages.

      We are the least democratic state in the EU and now everybody in Scotland must know it as OUR country is being dragged out of the EU against our will.

      ALL Scottish citizens are EU citizens by right of our membership until we are dragged out because of the votes of those that reside in England.

      Democracy my arse, real democracy would have kept Scotland in the EU in fact nothing really any different than the “deal” for Northern Ireland, backstop and all.

      I think they have played into the hands of those that support Independence as the democratic deficit is so obvious now it will be picked up by very very many who may have voted No first time around.

      You’ll know when the starting gun has been fired and it may not come from where you think. I think it will come from the Britnat government who in their rage will fuck it all right up.

    242. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      11 January, 2019 at 12:49 am

      “Rockshit

      You really are the Court ( Wings) jester. Total clown.”

      Only those who have lost the argument and are too cowardly to go on the record have to resort to personal insults.

      Should the dishonest unionist civil servants who tried to destroy Alex Salmond be sacked or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, be brave, go on the record.

    243. Alisdair says:

      I would like to think that now Andy Murray has announced his retirement through injury that he may get involved more directly in Scottish politics. His example is exemplary to kids, but, more so, freed from the constraints of the tightrope he has had to tip-toe while representing ‘Britain’ he can elucidate fully his beliefs in an independent country. His words would IMO carry weight and he would be a valuable counter point to the PBS that inhabit those sports of the Public Schools. Moreover a man as Gentlemanly and Sportingly in the true meaning of both words would carry huge weight with the undecideds. I appreciate it is a wish and that the most important thing, indeed the only thing is that he regains whatever health is left to him and his thigh. But I swear he would play a huge and important role for us and sport in this country of ours, that is the character of the man. Selfish isn’t it? I can dream.

    244. Rock says:

      jezza says:
      11 January, 2019 at 7:12 am

      “Murray retirement, couldn’t care less. He was a play thing for the English media, hence the knighthood.”

      Rock (25th September 2014 – “No regrets”):

      “Andy Murray backed independence at the very last moment when it looked very likely of winning.

      If it was meant to benefit the Yes campaign, he should have spoken earlier.

      I think it was an opportunistic move, for his own benefit. At that stage he wasn’t under any pressure to back either side.”

      Why are the “plebs” so easily duped by “celebrities”?

      “Celebrities” don’t give a damn about the “plebs”, only make a show to dupe them.

    245. Thepnr says:

      There’s a nasty smell that keeps popping up on Wings around this time. REV get the drain cleaners in, you have a rat infestation.

    246. Bill Hume says:

      I (and I suspect more Wingers) am getting a wee bit restless awaiting Indyref2. But remember the old saying “Haud back ’till ye drew forrat”
      Patience, right now, really is a virtue.

    247. yesindyref2 says:

      The EU, in fact the EEA, has to consider carefully enlargement of the EU / EEA, and reach agreement. With the UK leaving the EU, Scotland would be an internal enlargement, not an external one, and in addition the number of member states of the EU would remain at 28 rather than increase to 29. So no great shakes there.

      The number of MEPs is limited by part of the Lisbon Treaty to 750 + 1 for the President. The UK with 73 MEPs is leaving, whereas Scotland would have 13 for a total of 60 less, so no great shakes there.

      The UK is leaving with its contribution to the EU budget meaning the budget of the EU-27 would have to increase slightly. Scotland as a member of the EU and a nett contributor would make that increase a little less, so no great shakes there.

      The UK is a nett contributor to the EU, so proportionately so is Scotland. But Carmichael split the EU CAP uplift 4 ways to all the 4 countries of the UK, rather than allocating it all to Scotland as the only reason for that EU uplift was Scotland low per hectare CAP. Scotland would be able to recover that so our contribution to the EU would be no more than it is currently as allocated via GERS. So no great shakes there.

    248. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      11 January, 2019 at 9:57 am

      “In the end it will be Scotland versus the Tories. Labour are now an irrelevance existing only to be used by the media – rather like the Lib Dems.”

      Rock (24th December 2018 – “The stupidest year in history”):

      “The SNP lost half a million voters and 21 of their 56 MPs at the last Westminster election.

      It is my prediction that they will lose many more seats to Unionists United at the next Westminster election.

      I will be happy to be proved wrong.

      Anyone here willing to go on the record and say that the SNP will gain seats?”

      Davie, will the SNP have more seats than they have now after the next Westminster election?

      Go on, be brave, go on the record.

    249. yesindyref2 says:

      @PC
      They’re great images, a picture saves a 1,000 words qot I just wrote!

      @Thepnr
      Yes, and it’s interesting to see the anti-EU postings start or increase on Wings, shows the angle of attack the Precious Union will try to use. Falsehoods and garbage about the EU, Express style.

    250. Thepnr says:

      Still the shit flows and backs up the pipe some more, the drains are already blocked and the smell is rising.

      Rev call in the good folk from StinkyTrollFree.co.uk who will swish away those nasty stinks in no time with a boot up the outlet.

    251. Nana says:

      Joanna Cherry QC MP – Keynote Speech “Brexit the tale of two Unions”

      This event took place this morning

      Joanna Cherry QC MP, the Scottish National Party MP discussing Brexit but also the political future of the United Kingdom. What is Scotlands position in the Brexit debate, it voted overwhelmingly to remain, but its views aren’t being taken into account properly

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2SB-pdzTHQ

    252. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      A boot up the what?

      😉

    253. stewartb says:

      Dr Jim @ 5:46 pm

      You wrote: “The EU 27 has trade deals with over 60 other countries in the world so being Independent outwith the EU cannot make trade deals with these countries on better terms then they already have with the EU.”

      And you are correct. And for any sceptics that want to check out an authoritative source, I recommend this: http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/#_in-place . To any reasonable person the list of free trade agreements (FTA) and other preferential trading arrangements in place and pending is surely a highly impressive achievement! Scotland’s businesses are about to lose access to all of this carefully negotiated trading system at a stroke.

      But of course it’s true, the EU does not have an FTA with the USA – although EU members still trade substantially with the USA. An FTA with the USA appears to be what many Tory Brexiteers crave. The EU does not have an FTA with the USA because a successful movement across the EU stopped the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) from being concluded.

      Remember TTIP and its implications?
      See https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html or for a right wing commentary see https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11664750/What-is-TTIP-and-why-is-it-so-controversial.html.

      Of course the EU was in a strong position in the TTIP negotiations with the USA … and the EU and its members were not ‘desperate’ for a USA FTA at any price.

      After Brexit, the UK will be in a quite different position – ‘desperate’ will be putting it mildly. And of course the USA side will now not be led by Obama’s team but by Donald “America First’ Trump!

    254. galamcennalath says:

      EU versus WM. There’s another fundamental difference.

      From a Scottish perspective, the EU has been a force for delivering useful and constructive things, plus justice, security, and personal rights. WM however, delivers illegal wars, austerity, poverty, chaos, erosion of rights, and injustice. One has a proven record of changing things for the better, one for the worse. That is one Hell of a difference!

      Put more simply – when did WM last do anything positive for Scotland?

    255. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@7.52pm

      Why would I bother to argue with a clown like you. It’s never happened and I won’t start now.

      Rockshit = Britnatshit. Try quoting this you diddy.

      I have already posted my views on whether the civil servants should be sacked – nothing to do with your childish challenges/ forecasts. There are a lot of Britnat clowns on Wings but you get the top rating. A total joke. Your opinions are worthless – sometimes stupidly funny but most of the time just Britnat nonsense.

    256. Cactus says:

      Friday night i2019 baby!

    257. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      11 January, 2019 at 8:37 pm

      “Rockshit@7.52pm

      Why would I bother to argue with a clown like you. It’s never happened and I won’t start now.

      Rockshit = Britnatshit. Try quoting this you diddy.

      I have already posted my views on whether the civil servants should be sacked – nothing to do with your childish challenges/ forecasts. There are a lot of Britnat clowns on Wings but you get the top rating. A total joke. Your opinions are worthless – sometimes stupidly funny but most of the time just Britnat nonsense.”

      Should the dishonest unionist civil servants who tried to destroy Alex Salmond be sacked or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, don’t be a coward, go on the record.

    258. Cactus says:

      Go crazy Scotland.

      Go pure mental like.

      Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    259. call me dave says:

      Lots of choices on which lifeboat to get in but nobodies asking us North of the wall about SS Independence.

      ———————————————————–
      From the Guardian darn Sarf!
      Brexit disaster looms. Can MPs unite quickly enough to save us?

      https://archive.is/kqBlG

    260. Rock says:

      Thepnr says:
      11 January, 2019 at 8:01 pm

      “There’s a nasty smell that keeps popping up on Wings around this time. REV get the drain cleaners in, you have a rat infestation.”

      Thepnr says:
      11 January, 2019 at 8:18 pm

      “Still the shit flows and backs up the pipe some more, the drains are already blocked and the smell is rising.

      Rev call in the good folk from StinkyTrollFree.co.uk who will swish away those nasty stinks in no time with a boot up the outlet.”

      Why don’t you do a Petra if this site stinks?

      If your blackmailing fails, you can always sneak in again through the backdoor.

      Petra (24th February 2018 – “The makings of a deal”):

      “My last post didn’t appear on here. Maybe it was considered to be absolute rubbish?

      Meanwhile the last few posts since 11:26pm other than KOF, Robert Peffers, Brian, yesindyref2 and Hamish have basically made me decide that it’s time to move on. Made me realise that I’m wasting my precious time on here.

      If this is the calibre of posts that’s supposed to attract people to supporting Independence, I give up.”

    261. Rock says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (The power grab)
      16 July, 2017 at 12:32 pm

      “I think Colin’s talking complete shite, but I can see no justification for banning him. He has an opinion I disagree utterly with, but I don’t see it being expressed in offensive or trolling terms, and I don’t appreciate people attempting to blackmail me on my own site.”

    262. pipinghot says:

      Thanks Nana @ 8:19 PM for the link, still wondering why we are trying to save england from brexit. Can anybody explain this to me?

    263. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      Joanna Cherry QC MP, the Scottish National Party

      I think Joanna is right in that her suggestion seems a coherent way out of the mess. The EU will need something big to change in the UK before they grant an extension. They won’t do it for ‘more of the same’.

      1 a cross party government to take temporary control
      2 get extension from EU
      3 hold EURef2
      4 cancel Brexit if remain win
      5 Scotland must be able to call IndyRef2 when necessary
      6 new GE after EURef2

      It’s a plan.

    264. Rock says:

      galamcennalath says:
      11 January, 2019 at 8:29 pm

      “Put more simply – when did WM last do anything positive for Scotland?”

      When 56 of Scotland’s 59 MPs were from the SNP?

    265. Macart says:

      @call me dave

      Ayup. A false binary choice. Bit like the rest of Westminster’s politics really. (shrugs) They could of course unilaterally cancel Brexit altogether. They could opt for a GE to attempt to break the deadlock (DON’T. You’ll make me snigger). There is more than one way to extend the torture.

      Fact is though, Scotland’s population have a further choice, which wouldn’t involve spontaneous bouts of the hokey cokey breaking out. One which doesn’t include being forced into any damn thing. 😎

    266. pipinghot says:

      Sorry but I watched the J Cherry QC link and I was just shaking my head in disbelief. More playing by their rules. Oh dear.

    267. Rock says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      11 January, 2019 at 8:11 pm

      “Yes, and it’s interesting to see the anti-EU postings start or increase on Wings, shows the angle of attack the Precious Union will try to use. Falsehoods and garbage about the EU, Express style.”

      My preference is for Scotland to be in the EU and England to be out of it.

      It will happen once Nicola has flogged all her dead horses – in 2640 AD.

    268. cynicalHighlander says:

      pipinghot says:
      11 January, 2019 at 9:15 pm

      Sorry but I watched the J Cherry QC link and I was just shaking my head in disbelief. More playing by their rules. Oh dear.

      I’m with you on that one.

    269. wull2 says:

      Hope you when you get back you watch over Scotland during the wee small hours before the sun comes up and you have to stay indoors.

      Stay safe and off your knees, it wont be long now.

    270. Cactus says:

      “Fuzzy wuzzy was a woman”

      Go digit.

    271. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “2640 AD.”

      How often am I going to have to scroll past any comment that starts with “Rock says” and includes the above numerical reference?

      It’s getting a tad tedious. Can we no’ use a hoover to pick up a’ the $h!† before it hits our eyes?

    272. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      He’s nothing more than a wee toty pebble in yer shoe.

      😉

    273. Colin Alexander says:

      What’s all this UK v EU mince tonight? Are we back at that AGAIN?

      EU or whatever other option will be a decision for the people of Scotland only after we:

      Take back control. End this undemocratic Union.

      Once we have completed that, then we can choose.

    274. Hamish100 says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      11 January, 2019 at 9:52 pm
      @BDTT –

      He’s nothing more than a wee toty pebble in yer shoe.

      ?

      Aye but it clings to keech too easily!!

    275. Dr Jim says:

      The Troll posts with emotionless autism I don’t believe it even cares about what it’s writing as long as it generates a negative response so it can continue its mission content and satisfied in the achievement, thus deeming itself a success

    276. Cactus says:

      “Wuzzy fuzzy was a man”

      Do it differently.

      Your call…

    277. ben madigan says:

      @ cynical highlander and Piping Hot

      joanna Cherry is a highly intelligent UK- trained QC
      Her arguments in her speech were well balanced –
      one point in support of the UK status quo, the next in support of Scottish Independence.

      It was hard to work out which prevailed, though i don’t doubt her sincerity as a supporter for Scottish independence

      I suppose she reflects the dichotomy within the SNP – people with her mindset vs the likes of Mhairi Black – in other words -incrementalists/gradualists vs those who want to strike when they perceive the time is right/the iron is hot

    278. Cubby says:

      Pipinghot@9.06 pm

      Possible reasons.

      1. Sturgeon is a very caring person and does not want the rest of the UK to suffer.

      2. A strong English economy is good for the Scottish economy.

      3. No hard border between England and Scotland if both in EU.

      4. Conditions will be insisted upon for the SNP supporting a new EU Ref.
      – a legally binding no ifs no buts Indyref2
      – all 4 nations must vote in the same way for the EU ref result to be valid

      No.4 May well result in Scottish independence. Personally, I feel that if E&W vote to leave then they should go ahead. If Scotland and N. Ireland vote to remain then they remain.

      5. Sturgeon can say without any sensible contradiction that that she did everything to prevent Brexit when she calls an Indyref2.

    279. Would like to see The National go back to the eye catching front page,

      there were some who were a bit cringy about them,

      but they definitely caught the attention of both British Nationalist and Scottish Patriot even if you were not buying the paper.

    280. Terence callachan says:

      To Rock…..
      I don’t agree with you about Nicola Sturgeon , I think her cautious approach is excellent .
      There is no hurry for Scottish independence, that’s not to say it should be put on the back burner, we want it and we want it now but we want it to succeed next time around for sure.

      I’m glad you continue to state your point of view ,even though I don’t agree with it.

      So many people are accused of being trolls , it’s laughable ,anyone with good perception knows that it is a healthy discussion that encourages all points of view and for those who disagree I say that you should argue your case against and do it cleverly after all if you are in the right how can you lose ?
      Shouting people down and trying to silence or banish them by slinging insults and using foul abusive language does not win in the long run because onlookers are not convinced by your arguement so calm clever point of view are more likely to win and garner more support.
      We Scottish independence people have right on our side which is enough to win any independence argument if presented properly , right ? …..right….

    281. Cactus says:

      Prison Break 2019.

      Aussie ‘Whistler’ has been taken back up tops NOW.

      Micheal Scofield is the man.

      We’re at SONA.

    282. yesindyref2 says:

      Another difference between voting in the EU under QMV and voting at Westminster. This:

      An abstention under qualified majority voting counts as a vote against. Abstention is not the same as not participating in the vote. Any member can abstain at any time.

      https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/qualified-majority/

      whereas at Westminster if Labour abstain, the Tories win, even with less than 325 votes for any nasty legislation they want.

    283. Cactus says:

      Series 3 Episode 3 coming up in 17 seconds, said Michael:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfRiedxPQhs

      All change.

    284. pipinghot says:

      ben madigan 10.14 PM
      Interesting your first line

      @ cynical highlander and Piping Hot

      joanna Cherry is a highly intelligent UK- trained QC

      Means bugger all to me mate, I am not interested in the legal arguments, I have met too many of these people in person and points of law will not bring us independence and they bloody know it. ‘time is right/the iron is hot’ somebody needs to keep a close eye on that iron, we have all picked it up when it has got too cold to tackle the hard jobs.

    285. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @10.24pm

      Terry playing the good sensible guy. How does lying, making up stories, making up figures for the English in Scotland fit in with your code of conduct.

    286. Old Pete says:

      Independence, Independence, Independence that’s what I want for Scotland and its people. I don’t care if the UK flounders, I want Scotland to flourish and regain its place in the world. I’m concerned if there is another GE, will the SNP put Scottish Independence as the goal? I hope so as Scottish Independence is what needs to be at the fore, take on the British national parties defeat them and declare Independence. Article 30 who cares, Nicola time and opportunity are fleeting and if you wait and play by UK rules we will never break free from this hellish Union.

    287. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 11 January, 2019 at 10:05 pm:

      ” … What’s all this UK v EU mince tonight? Are we back at that AGAIN?”

      No Colin, “We”, are not back at that again, most of us have not, and do not want, to leave it.

      “… EU or whatever other option will be a decision for the people of Scotland only after we:
      Take back control. End this undemocratic Union.”

      Will that be before you and your band of cronies have eliminated, Nicola Sturgeon, the SG and the SNP or after you have eliminated them?

      ” … Once we have completed that, then we can choose.”

      Yes but just who or what is it that will gain Scottish independence for the people of Scotland after you and your band of cronies have managed to turn everyone against Nicola, the SG and the SNP with your constant anti-Nicola, SG and SNP Britnat style propaganda?

      It’s been Drip! Drip! Drip! of anti-independence supporting propaganda from you against the only organisation and people capable of gaining independence from you and your troop of followers for as long as I can remember.

    288. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyways, seeing how that keyboard legend Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp seems to think he’s the only keyboard legend who’s entitled to come up with the timetable for Indy Ref 2 (as per his article some months back which I disagreed with), and that “self-proclaimed keyboard legends whose mission in life is to get the Yes side whooping and hollering” should presumably not challenge his keyboard legendness with a different view, here’s my keyboard view of the timetable though I wouldn’t proclaim myself a “keyboard legend”, more a keyboard warrior (also serving).

      1). Presuming Brexit does happen
      2). Indy Ref 2 date announced BEFORE the UK exits the EU
      3a). EU informed and asked for transition arrangements
      or 3b). Article 50 not valid for the whole UK in terms of its constitution, UK can’t leave until after our ref

      4). Indy Ref 2 held, it’s a YES
      5). EU formally notified of intent to negotiate terms
      6). EU informs Scotland we have continued transitional arrangements

      7). Scotland holds our very own EU Ref 1 (not 2, it’s for iScotland not the UK)
      8a). It’s a Remain, and the transitional arrangements are made effectively indefinite while we formally negotiate and join in our own right
      or 8b). It’s EFTA / EEA instead, and the EEA keeps us in a transitional arrangement while we negotiate and join EFTA / EEA
      or 9c). For some weird reason it’s neither EFTA / EEA or the EU. Oh well. Carry on chaps and chapesses!

    289. Sarah says:

      @pipinghot: I think we need everything possible done to help succeed in restoring Scotland to full nation status recognised by all.

      Joanna Cherry’s and others legal approach certainly does no harm, and in fact does a lot of good in terms of gaining international legal and political recognition.

      E.g. the Westminster government knew all the time that Article 50 could be withdrawn by them so we could stay in the EU as if Brexit had never been started but it was kept secret from the voters [probably with collusion by MSM] until J Cherry and other Scotland politicians won their law case. Then it HAD to receive some publicity and will have helped turn some Noes to Yes.

    290. Breeks says:


      cynicalHighlander says:
      11 January, 2019 at 9:23 pm
      pipinghot says:
      11 January, 2019 at 9:15 pm

      Sorry but I watched the J Cherry QC link and I was just shaking my head in disbelief. More playing by their rules. Oh dear.

      I’m with you on that one.

      I’m disappointed too. I thought Joanna was perhaps the live wire in the mix, but I now fear sadly not.

      It’s not her objectives, I too think there is a terrific possibility for England to liaise and trade with the EU though a “Transitional Buffer State” which an Indy Scotland staying in Europe would provide. But I am at a complete loss with this prevailing strategy which seems ambivalent about getting Independence nailed as our primary objective.

      It reminds me of diver safety training. Sometimes to have to allow the casualty to fail and pass out from lack of oxygen in order to affect a safe rescue without imperilling yourself trying to rescue someone lashing out in blind panic. Help too early, and it might well drown the both of you.

      I absolutely do agree England will need help and compassion when it comes to its senses, but I fear it is a long way off from coming to its senses, and if we don’t start putting Scotland’s interests first, making ourselves safe as our optimum priority, then we won’t actually be in any position ourselves to help anybody.

      77 days left, and it all looks profoundly bleak, timid and weak. I had been optimistic we might expect more ECJ action to defend Scotland’s Constitution, but such hopes are now fading fast.

      Perhaps there might be time for an emergency Constitutional motion taken to the ECJ on a private initiative which sidesteps Holyrood altogether, but it will need to happen quickly.

    291. cynicalHighlander says:

      ben madigan

      It’s the fact that no SNP member will be anywhere near that Unity Excecutive as that would give them access to information that the Establishment hold dear. England sees Scotland as her possesion to do with as it wants.

      Labour will not want any involvement with the SNP under any circumstances so in my opinion it’s pie in the sky.

    292. yesindyref2 says:

      “Carry on chaps and chapesses!”

      and of course keyboard legends, keyboard warriors and all of us “also served” keyboard or tablet or iPhone tappers and shunters.

    293. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Occasional reminder for those who don’t do Off-Topic and/or Twitter etc…

      Some of us are meeting in a pub called ‘The Social’ in Royal Exchange Square, Glasgow, on Thursday 24th Jan, to have pints and chat as we watch Scotland In Union members arrive at ’29’ for their Burns Dinner.

      We’ll be there from late-afternoon onwards. The guests arrive from 6.30-7.30. We did it last year, nae trouble, cops weren’t interested, had a good laugh. (From memory, all of us were/are regular WOS posters.) This year will be busier, and interest has been expressed from some indy-favouring groups who want to record the ‘event’.

      Please mark the date in your diary *now* and, if you can’t attend, at least spread the details, eh?

      People like Murdo Fraser and Alistair Carmichael are perfectly entitled to ponce about in hired kilts and act ‘Scottish’, but we’re also entitled to laugh at them when they do so in public.

      Jan 24th presents such an opportunity.

      NB: There is no ‘central’ organisation for this – just note the relevant details and do your own thing.

      🙂

    294. stewartb says:

      ben madigan @ 10:14 pm

      You wrote: “Joanna Cherry is a highly intelligent UK- trained QC” I agree but with one quibble!

      Given she had the advantage of a Scottish education system and practised within the system of Scots law, it’s much more appropriate to say she is a ‘Scotland trained’ QC.

      With acknowledgment to Wikipedia: ‘Cherry was educated at the University of Edinburgh, where she gained a first-class Bachelor of Laws Honours degree in 1988, a Master of Laws degree in 1989 and a Diploma in Legal Practice in 1990.

      Following her graduation, Cherry worked as a research assistant with the Scottish Law Commission (1990) before practising as a solicitor with the Edinburgh legal firm Brodies WS until 1995. She also worked as a part-time tutor in constitutional law, family law and civil court practice at the University of Edinburgh (1990–1996).

      Cherry was admitted as an advocate in 1995. She served as a Standing Junior Counsel to the Scottish Government from 2003 to 2008, and as an Advocate Depute and Senior Advocate Depute from 2008 until 2011. She was appointed a Queen’s Counsel in 2009 and was an advocate with the Arnot Manderson stable within the Faculty of Advocates until her election to parliament In 2014, she set up the “Lawyers for Yes” campaign group.’

    295. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cactus says: 11 January, 2019 at 9:32 pm:

      ” … “Fuzzy wuzzy was a woman””

      Err! No, Cactus – and I cut and paste this from Wiki:-

      “”Fuzzy-Wuzzy” is a poem by the English author and poet Rudyard Kipling, published in 1892 as part of Barrack Room Ballads. It describes the respect of the ordinary British soldier for the bravery of the Hadendoa warriors who fought the British army in the Sudan and Eritrea. “

    296. Thepnr says:

      The SNP are not responsible for Scotland becoming Independent. They are but the most likely political vehicle that will help guide us there, the people of Scotland will decide when we should be an Independent nation once more and not the SNP.

      That’s you and yours and everybody around you who are the people of Scotland, stop gurning and bleating about the SNP and do some of the hard work yourself you lazy moaning old farts LOL.

      That’s right, especially the biggest moaners who are the loudest, get the finger out, go and talk to people and come back then tell us all of your first convert to Independence, all your own hard work too.

    297. stewartb says:

      Robert Peffers @ 10:54 pm

      You wrote: “Yes but just who or what is it that will gain Scottish independence for the people of Scotland after you and your band of cronies have managed to turn everyone against Nicola, the SG and the SNP with your constant anti-Nicola, SG and SNP Britnat style propaganda?”

      Rarely has a truer statement and more urgently needed statement been made on this site! Well said.

      And by the way, the article at this link should be revisited by us all from time to time: https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-buckaroo-principle/.

    298. Craig Murray says:

      I respect Joanna Cherry a lot. Brilliant and committed. Phillippa Whitford and of course Mhairi Black too. But the one who has really impressed me is Angus B MacNeil. Plainly he lives, breathes and eats Independence and is not interested in any other political objective. Everyone should follow his twitter feed if you don’t already.

    299. Cactus says:

      Evening Robert at 23:09hrs le soir.

      That aye never knew.

      Ah doo noo.

      Chairs.

      What aboot the Wuzzy Fuzzy then…

      Liz g knows.

    300. Thepnr says:

      “RIGHT IS EVERYBODY LISTENING?”

      The loud shouter looks around and the surrounding crowd shout:

      “AYE, WE’RE LISTENING”

      Loud shouter:
      “THIS WILL BE THE LAST BATTLE BEFORE WE TAKE BACK INDEPENDENCE” “ARE YOU READY FOR IT SCOTLAND?”

      Crowd:
      AYE! AYE! AYE! AYE! AYe! Aye but, see that Nicola Sturgeon?

      That’s the crowd on Wings 🙂

    301. Cactus says:

      ps good on ye for compiling a list of names Proud Cybernat.

      Ye fair got em all talking, excellent stimulation.

      Peter Griffin is naked right NOW.

      Royal Flush 😉

    302. yesindyref2 says:

      In fairness, Cherry’s timetable with the GE at the end is based on cancelling Brexit. If Brexit isn’t cancelled it’s clearly going to be totally different.

      Chances of Brexit being cancelled? Who knows, I doubt the GTories know day to day even what year it is.

    303. Iain mhor says:

      @Robert Peffers 11:09pm
      I wasn’t aware of that particular poem thanks for the info
      Though I believe Cactus’ reference was to a Gene Wilder film “See no Evil Hear no Evil”
      Not the faintest idea what he’s on about, but remembering the film gave me a chuckle.
      Have a good weekend – I’m out til Monday til the jakey shift passes.

    304. Cactus says:

      Das ist gud yah.

      Peter knows.

    305. Cactus says:

      Das ist gut ja.

      Das ist better.

      Ja.

    306. Dr Jim says:

      Far right newspaper (Daily Mail) says the far right will cause trouble if no Brexit

      Threat? Promise? Prediction?

      I’m sure whichever one it is the Daily Mail’s the rag to stir it up

    307. ben madigan says:

      @ stewartb who said: “she had the advantage of a Scottish education system and practised within the system of Scots law, it’s much more appropriate to say she is a ‘Scotland trained’ QC”.

      Agree Stewartb.
      However I was pointing out how the type of training she had received influenced the type of speech she made – balancing arguments etc
      not actually where she was trained

    308. Meg merrilees says:

      Get a good sleep this weekend folks, get your shoes checked over and get your hats and coats at the ready – we might be out in all weathers very shortly.

      Decision day is looming – only two sleeps to go.

      Tuesday is going to be a corker. Expect the Scottish press to go mental over AS and NS this weekend, the teacher’s strike, SNHS statistics, train disruption and anything else you think of. They’re desperate now but we’re playing the long game and ‘all things come to he who waits’

      Nt nt – early bed – need my stamina for next week.

    309. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Craig Murray –

      You are invited to the wee gathering in Glasgow on Thursday 24th of this month.

      🙂

    310. Thepnr says:

      @Craig Murray

      I’ll second that 🙂

    311. Dr Jim says:

      Joanna Cherry QC is a sharp clever MP and in her speech she drew them in with soft words then put them straight once she had their attention, throughout her speech she employed the same tactic

      If you go in swinging from the bell nobody will listen, it was I thought well judged and well timed nobody would have left that place and forgotten what she said

      In England many people still think and believe the word Nationalist means something other than we know what it means because they’ve always understood it to mean what the opposition has told them

      Joanna just educated them matter of fact but softly softly and they listened, now they look and listen with different minds

    312. Cactus says:

      Aye Love the sound of crickets when they’re playing their violins.

      The sound they make when yer abroad in the iMainland.

      Tis NOW Cairnstoon Saturday…

    313. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Meg merrilees at 11.50pm

      I actually believe we have passed a point of no return. The bettertogether unionist media has so overdone it that anything they now do or say is being shrugged off by most people as more SNPbaaad stuff.
      We are probably at the point that even if they tell the truth they won’t be believed.

      We don’t need anymore (and probably never did) to argue shillings and pence and this and that. The received wisdom now at worst for many is the UK is shit and Scotland can’t do any worse. We campaign on the better country we can build because that is not hard to believe anymore.

      The second SNP civil war is dead already. The man and woman in the street just think “there’s the papers trying to destroy Salmond and Sturgeon again”.

      If Nicola retains her cool and reasoned stance no matter how difficult that is to maintain and Alex stops barking the issue is dead.

    314. cynicalHighlander says:

      Cactus says:
      12 January, 2019 at 12:02

      Tis NOW Cairnstoon Saturday…

      Except he’s on holiday yet again.

    315. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      If the SNP campaign for Scottish sovereignty and independence, me, you and the SNP will be on the same side.

      If the SNP again settle for administering the UK’s Colonial Govt for Scotland, then lots of voters and members will dump the SNP.

      I hope it will be the first scenario and no the second yin.

    316. Thepnr says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      Maybe the Rev will get his pencil out again. You never know!

    317. Thepnr says:

      “then lots of voters and members will dump the SNP”

      Pray tell Colin, where is it you think they will go after they dump the SNP. I’m sincerely interested so would appreciate your answer.

    318. Thepnr says:

      By the way Colin I hope your not unwell or the Xmas and New Year has taken too much out of you. I only ask because you don’t “sound like” your usual self.

      No shit you really don’t.

    319. cynicalHighlander says:

      Thepnr

      Will it have lead in it? That is the question.

    320. Thepnr says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      Plenty lead in the Rev’s pencil from what I’ve witnessed over the years.

    321. Colin Alexander says:

      @Thepnr

      If the SNP settle for Colonial devolution servitute yet again, lots of people will simply not bother to vote at all. It will be back to: What’s the point?

      Or, dare I suggest it: a “Vote For Independence” party led by Craig Murray, Alex Salmond, Mhairi Black and Angus B MacNeil, with one policy only: Independence for Scotland, no participation in devolution.

      But, hopefully the SNP will stand up for independence.

    322. Thepnr says:

      @Colin

      It’s servitude I think you meant, but could you write that reply all in “Scots” as you did the other day, I’d really like that. Ta.

    323. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Thepnr

      Ta for the typo correction. People will no vote for Colonial Servitude whether it’s the SNP running it or no.

      I’m awa tae ma scratcher.

      Guidnicht, and for Angus B MacNeil: Oidhche mhath.

    324. Thepnr says:

      @Colin

      That wisane bad, in fact it was very good 🙂 You deserve a clap.

      I’d recommend though that you register a “Vote for Independence” party with the Electoral Commission before anyone else does.

      Then give Craig Murray, Alex Salmond, Mhairi Black and Angus B MacNeil a phone call or just send an email and watch them rush to join. If any of them do please let me know I could be interested.

    325. geeo says:

      Another day, another british nationalist troll-fest of “SNP/NS baaad”!!

      Their panic is tangible now, and we have not even started the end game yet.

      “Do something ffs, before all is lost” is another favourite crocodile tear british nationalist tactic, which sadly, some indy supporters fall into.

      This despite just 2 days ago, Nicola stated that she is waiting for the deal vote to be known before making her position clear.

      Just like she said all along.

      “When the deal is known but before brexit day”

      The ‘deal’ status, last i checked, is not yet known (officially) nor is it brexit day.

      So, whats the issue here ?

      I would prefer to be on the open savannah with these folk when the safari truck breaks down, as when the lions started approaching as we walk back to the lodge, they would bottle it and make the fatal mistake of running, and as they get chased down and eaten, i would hasten my way to safety.

      Got to show a bit nerve here. We ARE winning.

    326. Breeks says:


      Craig Murray says:
      11 January, 2019 at 11:27 pm

      ……But the one who has really impressed me is Angus B MacNeil. Plainly he lives, breathes and eats Independence and is not interested in any other political objective….

      Agreed, but why pursue the uphill option of a reluctant UK to revoke Article 50? Why not instead, or in parallel, request a clarification of the ECJ’s ruling that revocation of Article 50 is a sovereign prerogative, and seek an opinion on whether Scotland can revoke Article 50 unilaterally, citing the Claim of Right and Scotland’s Democratic will to stay in Europe?

      After Brexit, it’s simply all too late, because in a No Deal scenario we will be summarily outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ, seeking an opinion they won’t be able to give, on a sovereign prerogative that is already academic. Talk about a missed opportunity….

      After the clarification of the Gina Millar Case, UK Parliament cannot move hastily to revoke Article 50 without legislation and Westminster’s approval. The timescale and complications for not revoking but extending Article 50 are even more difficult since they require similar protocols in Westminster but also universal agreement with the EU27, less than 2 months before EU elections. Any extension of Article 50 will be brief, if it happens at all.

      So many questions left to the initiative and prerogative of others… so for once, why doesn’t Scotland seize the initiative???

      If Scotland opts to pursue a Constitutionally Sovereign revocation of Article 50, the protocols would be all Scottish, Scottish alone, and suffer no impediment beyond the due process of bringing a Test Case before the ECJ.

      We CAN save Scotland from Brexit, but we’ve got to get up on our feet and do it!

    327. Thepnr says:

      @geeo

      “We ARE winning.”

      That is undisputable but some will try lol. Everything else you said about holding our nerve ect. is absolute right as well. It’s them that’s panicking!

      We can be cool, be relaxed, untroubled, we are winning.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RT9h-0w45Q

      I have just been very surprised to find this song, it seems to be one of the very first songs from that what became known as “Playing For Change” who’s songs now get 69 million hits and more, i believe it’s definitely the first song.

      The song above has only 739 hits and being 5 years old I think this is the the original incarnation of something that became very big. Hope you like it Smallaxe if you’re dipping in.

    328. Thepnr says:

      I think I played that on Off Topic on Wings 5 years ago haha, not the 739 views version of course probably millions. Hey! we’re none of us infallible LOL

    329. Thepnr says:

      Yes here’s the original from playing for change from 9 years ago with 48 million views 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xjPODksI08

      Hey it’s worth watching twice.

    330. Thepnr says:

      Since it’s after 2:10am I thought I might treat those that care to watch to a few tunes that have been played here on Wings over the years.

      I’ll start with this which is not what you might have expected but is spectacular if you have never seen it. By the way you need to keep in mind that these were being played IN THE RUN UP to the referendum in 2014. Meant to inspire and pull at the heart stings and they did.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP9CPMsJN7Y

      By the way if you don’t yet have an adblocker I recommend you do, I had mine paused for a bit there and videos on Youtube become unwatchable without one. Just my opinion by the way.

    331. Thepnr says:

      Remember when our neighbours were telling us about how much they cared about our relationship and how we were equal partners and should “lead the union”.

      This was the reality as Wingers saw it. They were lying!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDWdT7tEEoI

    332. Thepnr says:

      Of course it couldn’t be as serious as that all say everyday so stupid stuff most welcome as well, this is an example 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VR-eeTlJkw

    333. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 1:38 am …… ”But the one who has really impressed me is Angus B MacNeil. Plainly he lives, breathes and eats Independence and is not interested in any other political objective” ….

      ………

      Have you contacted him Breeks?

      Naw?

      ……….

      Breeks: ”We CAN save Scotland from Brexit, but we’ve got to get up on our feet and do it!”

      ………

      Right on Breeks. MANY of us on here, and elsewhere right across the length and breadth of Scotland, HAVE been getting right off of our butts and right onto our feet for MANY years now….. day in and day out. Are you not aware of this?

      Maybe you should think of following suit? If you spent as much time on the streets as you have done on here … sitting on your erse tapping away at your computer rubbishing the SNP …. you could have won hundreds of people over. You know the hundreds / thousands of the sovereign Scots that you go on about. The majority that we truly NEED to get us out of his bl**dy hellhole, Breeks.

      High time that you got your legs moving (not doing so is bad for your heart) and got right away from your computer. IF, that is IF, you truly want Scotland to become Independent your depressive chunterings on here ain’t going to work. Most unhelpful, imo … dragging us all down in fact. Your objective?

      Now is the time, to get on with the ”hard work”, Breeks and get onto the streets like Angus MacNeil, as an example.

      Looking forward to hearing from you when you do so. Wee anecdotes and so on.

    334. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      @ Breeks 1:38 and @Petra 3:02.

      I think the question you ask Breeks is very poignant and extremely germane to the current situation. Why Petra chooses to rubbish it and yourself is quite baffling.

      I have seen this question of testing sovereignty and the ability of Scots to revoke article 50 raised several times, but to date no one seems to want to or be able to answer it.

      This option is only on the table for another few weeks. Once Brexit happens Scotland no longer comes under EJC jurisdiction so why let such an opportunity go?

    335. Cactus says:

      A fuzzy wuzzy was indeed a woman and a poem:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5O5jd5cqZA

      Have a braw weekend Wingers X.

      Watch out for dem eels.

    336. Cactus says:

      Hey Ronnie, aye see your aye faw to pieces and raise ye with Crazy:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnrdCS57d0

      Circa the sum of the year 1961.

      Patsy knew. 🙂

    337. Cactus says:

      Here’s some contemplative piano music to see ye thru the mattina:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bvm9yG4cvs

      Good thinking music to compose to.

      1:14:26.

    338. Cherry says:

      Hey Cactus this is for you!
      m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gn8-g41Ca0

    339. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 12 January, 2019 at 12:22 am:

      ” … If the SNP campaign for Scottish sovereignty and independence, me, you and the SNP will be on the same side.”

      The SNP do, have always done, and will continue to do so until Scotland is independent have one main raison d’être. That reason to exist is to PEACEFULLY gain back Scotland’s peoples’ inalienable right to assert their legal sovereignty.

      To that end early leading members have suffered illegal imprisonment at the hands of the Westminster Establishment:-

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party

      Extract one from that website:-

      “Professor Douglas Young, who was the leader of the Scottish National Party from 1942 to 1945 campaigned for the Scottish people to refuse conscription and his activities were popularly vilified as undermining the British war effort against the Axis powers. Young was imprisoned for refusing to be conscripted.”

      Arthur Donaldson:-

      “In May 1941, during the Second World War, Donaldson’s home was raided by the police, who suspected him and a number of other SNP figures of “subversive activities”, due to their support for the Scottish Neutrality League. An informant of MI5 told the desk officer Richard Brooman-White that in the event of a Nazi invasion of Britain Donaldson intended to set up a puppet government akin to that of Vidkun Quisling. As a result of this information, Donaldson was arrested and interned under Defence Regulation 18B, sent first to Kilmarnock Prison and then to Barlinnie Prison in Glasgow. He was held for six weeks.

      According to papers released by MI5, which led raids against many Scottish nationalists, “subversive literature” and a “large cache of weapons” were found in Donaldson’s house.[3] The allegations in the MI5 files, which were first released in 1994 after Donaldson’s death, were absolutely denied by his widow, Violet Donaldson, and by the surviving leaders of the SNP at the time.[4][5] Donaldson was never charged, and no evidence for the MI5 allegations has ever been produced.”

      There is also the very dubious death of Willie MacRae claimed by Westminster to have been by Willie’s own hand but there is evidence, even yet today emerging, that such a self inflicted death is most certainly improbable:-

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17096870.background-the-bizarre-mystery-surrounding-death-of-willie-mcrae/

      and:-

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14400576.revealed-key-evidence-missing-on-mysterious-death-of-snp-activist-willie-mcrae/

      The party has always attempted to stay within the law and has expelled any organisation or persons who advocate any form of violent or illegal actions:-

      Siol nan Gaidheal, (meaning “Seed of the Gaels”) is a Scottish nationalist group which describes itself as a “cultural and fraternal organisation”.

      The first incarnation of the group was founded by Tom Moore in 1978, though it became defunct twice and was re-established by Jackie Stokes in 1987 and again in 1997.

      Though the group publicly disavows politics, SnG has been variously described by commentators as anywhere from “traditionalist” to “crypto-fascist” or “proto-fascist”. Members of the group have been banned from membership of the mainstream nationalist Scottish National Party since 1982.

      There were several would be para-military groups also that the SNP disassociated itself with.

      There plainly is a long held tradition in the SNP to act within the law, even while claiming many such Westminster laws are actually illegal under the independent Scottish Legal system.

      Is it any wonder that SNP members wish to disassociate themselves from actions you personally advocate?

      When Scottish independence comes about it will be achieved by legal means and, it is hoped, without any illegal violence perpetrated by the Scottish National party or its supporters.

      Yet you, who consistently claims to support Scottish Independence, have a long history of active campaigning against the SNP, the SNP leadership and the, (elected to office by the Scottish electorate), Holyrood Government.

      A government that, (factually), is a devolved administration and thus, whether they/we/you like it or not, operates under the, (illegal), Westminster de facto Parliament of the country of England.

      A country of England that actually has not a single, elected as such, Member of the parliament of England. Yet it operates as the only body that governs either the country or the kingdom of England but has the temerity to claim to devolve England’s sovereign powers upon three subservient dominion countries while the very title of, “The United Kingdom”, describes a bipartite union of kingdoms and not a quadratic union of countries with England as their overlord.

      Quite simply independence will only be won when it is proven, (to the people of Scotland), that the actual setup currently in place to govern, “The United Kingdom”, is an illegal farce.

      These matters are already being pushed into the international courts jurisdiction by the SNP. All that any form of civil disobedience will achieve is to distract from the due process of international law. An international law that is becoming increasingly aware of just how illegal the Westminster set-up really is. This, mind you, more by the international community being faced by the same form of duplicity that Scotland has faced for nearly 312 years.

      If the SNP again settle for administering the UK’s Colonial Govt for Scotland, then lots of voters and members will dump the SNP.
      I hope it will be the first scenario and no the second yin.

    340. wull says:

      I too watched Joanna Cherry on the link, and I thought she was excellent. As she always is, any time I have heard her.

      Maybe those who don’t get Joanna Cherry lack something of that clarity of mind and depth of commitment which she so clearly possesses.

      I find it very hard to understand why any genuine supporter of Scottish independence would castigate her in the way some posters above have done. Maybe rational argument and common sense are beyond some people, but surely they provide a sounder basis for the independence movement than their opposite.

      Or maybe the castigators have some other agenda …

      Who knows?

    341. Ken500 says:

      Paul, wee ginger dug goes from strength to strength. Great topic points and humour. Hunners of tours and thousands of people. Well worth a visit.

      Evans is an agent of the British State.

      Cameron will have instructed M15 to get Alex Salmond. M15 will have tried to honeypot him. They will have recruited two unionist supporters civil servants allegiance to the Crown. There had to be two because it needs corroboration under Scottish Law, One had to back the other one up. Civil servants swear an oath to the Official Secrets Act. Basically they have to keep their mouths shut. The plan misfired. Whatever happened, there is nothing to charge Alex Salmond. If divulged it might show up their cover to secrecy and exposed their illegal actions.

      Evans who is agabt of the British State (a sleeper) managed to get appointed as Head of the Civil service in Scotland. She was instructed to go back and revisit the accusations to smear Alex Salmond with more leaks and innuendo. She expected a knighthood in return for destroy democracy and the economy in Scotland.

      The illegal Cop was draughted in to help. Evans started an ‘investigation’. Totally illegally it was not her place. She is not the Cops or the judiciary. She is nothing but a foreign agent swanning about Scotland like a surrogate FM on £140,000 a year. Doing nothing but causing trouble. Sleekitly in every way she can.

      Evans did not tell Nicola what she was doing. She must have know it wa illegal the Cop certainly should have but she went ahead to cause trouble to aid her Westminster masters. Eventually it was even leaked to the Daily Record more agents of the British State. Clegg etc being kept afloat by unionists dirty money and masonics.

      Nicola did not even know because Evans did not even tell her. Obviously.her cover would have been exposed. Nicola would have told Evans it was totally illegal. If she did not know it already. Evans is supposed to be aware of HR matters. It didn’t matter anyway it was just another opportunity to illegally smear. That was the intention all along. To try and damage the SNP, the Independence movement and the Scottish economy. Just like the unionist and the British State has done for years. Denying Scotland democracy and illegally taking all Scotland monies.

      The plan misfired. Now the lot of them,including Evans? are going to be sued big time. The stinking Press and the Daily Record. Pay for their lies and duplicity. Some ‘victims’. Just a load of spite and spin, They are going to get sued big time,

      Support for the SNP/Independence will hsve increased because of the shambles. Every one loves an underdog who turned out a winner. The unionist shambles continues apace. Alex Salmond is a great Statesman and knows where the bodies are buried. The British State continues to sanction, starved people and increase the absolute shambles, May is Thatcher -Mark Two. Even worse if that is possible. Devastating the world economy.

      The British State has done that all over the world. M15/CIA did it in Iran. They spread rumours tge PM was gay. Csused unrest and violence, He ended up in prison. For wanting some of Oil Iran produced for the country. Churchill took the lot. Then reimposed the hated Shah to destroy democracy. He had been depised and exiled. The British and American state have done the same all over the world. Especially in the Middle East but also in Scotland. Taken all the Oil resiurces and wasted it. Lied and cheated kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie. Kept secret for 100 years to deceive the people.

      The SNP and people in Scotland are now fighting back. Support increasing daily. To get over the line for Independence and leave the Westminster cheating, lie and criminal actions behind. For a better future. The absolute astounding shambles of the Westminster imbeciles. They do not have a clue. Responsible for killing and murdering people all over the world. £Trns in debt. The most unequal and unfair place in the world. An absolute shambles of ignorant, arrogant incompetence.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Show the psycho bastards the door. Send them homewards to think again. Trouble causing imbeciles. They are not fit for anything. Just troughing abd lining their pockets with public money. Starving and illegally killing people. The elderly. Their own supporters.

    342. Hamish100 says:

      Remember the bbc and the tories in Aberdeen complaining about the Aberdeen By-pass. issues over carillion folding in the UK. Outwith the control of Scotland. Anyone remember this getting the pelters on the tele to the same degree? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-44141400 Englands NHS in disarray.
      Back to the dual carriageway- Tory and labour govenments had over 60 yrs post WW2 to build. SNP in power for a 1/6th of the time and its being built. Just as the missing links on the M74 and M8 have been built. The border railway line, removal of road told, introduction of full RET. The Queensferry crossing.
      Proves the point I think if you want further investment in Scotland you need full fiscal powers independence and the SNP.

    343. wull2 says:

      One of the few times I have read a long post from start to finish, well done.

    344. gus1940 says:

      Re Eckgate – what the hell is The National up to?

      In today’s edition not only do they give the oxygen of publicity to the arch-tractor Sillars but they go on to shout from the rooftops that Civil War is now raging within The SNP.

      I have had a digital sub with the paper from day1.

    345. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 12 January, 2019 at 12:43 am:

      ” … If the SNP settle for Colonial devolution servitute yet again, lots of people will simply not bother to vote at all. It will be back to: What’s the point?£

      Oh! Dear God! You are hilarious!

      You have this strange misconception of reality, Colin. Yet you accuse others of holding unreal views.

      The brutal truth is that the Scottish Government is, and has been since it began, A DEVOLVED BRANCH OF THE WESTMINSTER DE FACTO PARLIAMENT OF THE COUNTRY OF ENGLAND.

      Thus, in the eyes of Westminster, (as is so obviously apparent to anyone with any perception of reality), Westminster thinks of itself as the legally sovereign authority in, “The United Kingdom”.

      The thing is that the name, “The United Kingdom”, does not describe their perception of the what they regard as the legal facts.

      Furthermore, over the past 311 years the World at large has given the matter little or no thought as to what is, or is not, the true situation. The title, “The United Kingdom”, describes a union of only two, equally sovereign, kingdoms. It does not describe a union of four distinct countries of which three of them constitute the Kingdom of England.

      In practice, in the World view, the myth has been established that the United Kingdom is a unified country. What is more, in the eyes of a substantial proportion of the people of the United Kingdom, they think themselves as citizens of a country called, “The United Kingdom”. Some even believe that the country is actually called, “Great Britain”, even although that title describes only the fact that the, “great”, in the title, “Great Britain”, only refers to the main, or greatest in size, island of the British Archipelago.

      These are all wrong concepts but are so ingrained in people’s minds, (throughout the World), that they will take a considerable effort to correct. However, there is a legal written constitution of the United Kingdom and it is an international treaty named, “The Treaty of Union”, and dated 1606/7.

      Only of recent years have these wrong concept began to be realised by, not only the people of the United Kingdom, but by the European Union and the World at large. After all the United Nations accepted The United Kingdom as a Member COUNTRY.

      As did NATO and the European Union and they all are having a bit of a problem because of their basic mistakes. Look at it this way – if the people of, “The United Kingdom”, have a problem accepting the truth that the United Kingdom is a union of two, equally sovereign, kingdoms, is it any wonder that the rest of the World has an even harder task accepting the truth?

      Yet nothing can disprove that the Treaty of Union of 1706/7 is the actual, “Written Constitution”, of the bipartite United Kingdom that the treaty constituted. It actually legally constituted a two partner kingdom of equally sovereign previously independent kingdoms. It did not create a new quadratic unified country of unequal countries with the country of England ruling the whole, so called, “Country”.

      However, in Westminster’s compulsion to enforce its perceived sovereignty, not only within the United Kingdom but also in the European Union then Westminster has forced upon the European Union and the rest of the World, (Including the United Nations), that the actual legal standing of, “The United Kingdom”, is legally exactly what that title describes it as – A Union of only two equally sovereign, and previously independent, kingdoms.

      The way that Westminster is currently running the United Kingdom factually breaks the Treaty of Union and now Europe and the World is becoming ever more aware of that fact. In order to protect their own interests these international organisations will ultimately have to accept the fact that the United Kingdom is legally exactly what the Treaty of Union agreed it to be.

      That time of realisation is almost upon us, and the international community, today.

      ” … Or, dare I suggest it: a “Vote For Independence” party led by Craig Murray, Alex Salmond, Mhairi Black and Angus B MacNeil, with one policy only: Independence for Scotland, no participation in devolution.!

      No you dare not and those you call upon to do so will be among the first to tell you so.

      Furthermore the SNP’s entire raison d’être has always been independence – the SG was created by Westminster and is subject to Westminster Rules and it is comprised of several complicit unionist parties who would like nothing better than the SNP SG to withdraw from Holyrood for that is exactly what would happen if your Dream World concept were to happen.

      The Unionist parties would unite and call upon the ready and waiting Scottish Office newly set-up government in waiting to take over running Scotland directly under Westminster and would enforce it with Her Majesty’s Armed Forces and Her Majesty’s Police Forces.

      Why the hell did you suppose these last mentioned organisations all must swear allegiance to the Queen of England?

      Do you get it now, Colin?

      They do not swear allegiance to the legally sovereign people of Scotland under Scots law they swear allegiance to the Queen of England under English Law. Do you really want martial law on the streets of Scotland?

    346. yesindyref2 says:

      @gus1940
      They can’t just ignore it, when it’s wall to wall in other papers.

    347. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Saturday, 9am and no cartoon.

      Is the Tourist on-holiday again Rev?

    348. Hamish100 says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 8:55 am
      @gus1940
      They can’t just ignore it, when it’s wall to wall in other papers.

      Of course they can. It is called editorial control. I assume Brexit isn’t an issue any more? Labour pro Brexit promoter Leonard car crash yesterday. Dirty DUP funding of elections. All the other papers ignore that.

    349. TJenny says:

      Socrates MacSporran – apparently so Do you think he mibbe just disnae like his ane hoose? 🙂

    350. Socrates MacSporran says:

      He’s bloody lucky he can afford to take as many holidays as he does. Tht’s all I can say.

    351. Pete says:

      @ken500 8.14am
      I think it’s time for your meds.

    352. manandboy says:

      https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/looking-past-the-politics-britains-future-under-the-eu-withdrawal-deal/

      The deeply troubled UK is in a real mess – but then most demolition sites usually are. At some point in the future, with site clearance complete, the necessary space will have been created on which to build an independent Scotland. England, Wales and Northern Ireland, meantime will make their own, painful, arrangements.

      The uncontrollably impatient band of Yes voters are destined to suffer their frustrations for a while longer. For as long, in fact, as the timetable for Independence requires. The truth is, you can’t hurry Independence. Yet some are critically impatient with Nicola, because she seems to be in no hurry, when in fact, all she is doing is following the timetable for Independence.

      Demolition – site clearance – new build. Is there any other way?

    353. Ken500 says:

      Truth hurts unionists being played by criminals.

      People being deceived by by criminals to vote against their best interests. Now being outed.

    354. jezza says:

      I can relate to the frustrations of English Brexiteers.

      The English Establishment don’t want to leave the EU. Big businesses’ and the Banking sector all want access to the European market. This will all end on 29th March.

      So MPs are being knobbled to try and delay this exit or even reverse it. Leave voters are being told they didn’t really understand what leaving was all about.

      This scenario will be played out during IndyRef2 where we will be told that we don’t understand all the implications of leaving the UK.

      So in a strange way I find myself on the side of the Brexoteers

    355. galamcennalath says:

      After scanning headlines, it is obvious that committed Brexiteers are still completely deluded.

      Fundamentally, the view that the EU can be exited is a valid one to hold. The problem is, most who hold that view are being driven by ideology rather than logic. While it’s perfectly possible the costs will inevitably be huge, both economically and on a human level.

      The exception, of course, are the financial wheeler dealers who see it all as a means to a fast buck!

      Also, those Greater Englanders who claimed, or still claim, exiting the EU was a UK wide decision are being naive in the extreme. Given the stability of NI brought by EU based all Ireland integration and Scotland’s already half way out the UK door status, EURef would inevitably challenge the integrity of the UK. To think otherwise is stupidity.

      When will Brexiteers face reality with all its complexity? Some, never. They will blindly campaign for full ‘independence’ from the EU forever. That is going to be a serious ongoing problem for England.

    356. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      I deny suggesting illegal actions. I believe you mean I suggested unlawful acts (which I also deny).

      You keep telling us Scotland is sovereign, and has always remained so. So Scotland can exercise that sovereignty; it can declare the Scottish Parliament from that point on as representing sovereign Scotland. Scotland would then be in breach of the terms of the Union that says there should be a UK Parliament instead of Scottish / English ones but, so what?, She would still be part of the Union. I doubt the Union Treaty is legally enforceable.(Has this ever been tested in any court?)

      Scotland’s Parliament (exercising Scotland’s sovereignty) was never abolished, it was adjourned and if reconvened as acting with sovereign power, Members of the Scottish Parliament could then exercise Scotland’s people’s sovereignty.

      Scotland’s Parliament (acting with sovereignty) could further amend the Union as much as it wanted to or end it completely if the Scottish Parliament and people of Scotland decide to do so.

      If we are already sovereign, WHY must we be forced into a vague YES / NO decision (similar to EU-REF) before exercising sovereignty? We can just exercise sovereignty. Sovereign mandated SP can hold indyref, do whatever the sovereign people give it the power to do.

      Sovereign Scotland can exercise the Claim of Right. We have sacked a monarch, so we can sack UK Parliament. Then hold confirmatory referendums or elections.
      ———————————————————————————————————————-

      “Ah but there’s a democratic mandate for indyref”.

      There is no legal right to exercise a democratic mandate in the UK. Democratic mandate is a UK political convention: UK Parliament is sovereign and that includes unelected Lords, for as long as we accept it is.

    357. jezza says:

      Whether Brexiteers are right or wrong is open to debate. But one thing for sure is that Scotland will become an independent nation because England voted to leave the EU.

      Strange but true.

      So we owe our southern neighbours a huge chunk of gratitude.

      Thank you England, thank you, thank you, thank you.

    358. Gerry says:

      @Colin Alxeander
      1/ Unlawful is different to illegal.

      2/ You cannot be in breach of a contract that has been vioded.

      3/ Sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people and their expression of will would be required for such a change.

    359. Marie Clark says:

      Where’s the boy Cairns this morning, he’s no away again is he?

      Re brexit, It defies belief listening to some of these MP’s and commentators. It still doesn’t look like the Maybot can win the vote. They are all over the shop. She’s been phoning Labour MP’s, trades union leaders, trying to terrify folk about no deal. I thought that no deal was better than a bad deal, and this one sure is a very bad deal indeed.

      Now the rumblings have started, we’ll delay brexit, and join ETA or EFTA or Canada++++. Totally delusional. It doesn’t seem to have penetrated their thick skulls, that the EU, all twenty seven countries would have to agree to an extension. I can’t see them agreeing to this unless for a GE or another referendum. I thinK that the EU will be pleased to get shot of the lot of them.Norway has already said no way Jose’ to them joining EFTA, so that’s the end of that. Canada plus or whatever will take years to negotiate, so where does that leave England. Up shit creek without a paddle, that’s where.

      Oh well, at least Scotland have the lifeboats waiting, I just hope we take it this time. I don’t think that I could bear another loss.

    360. Hamish100 says:

      Mr Peffers I think Mr Alexander is your Doppelgänger. Some false praise there!!

    361. Ken500 says:

      The SNP is as united as ever. In fact the menbership will probably increase. The unionists plot backfire. Again. Independence support will increase even more. The Unionists going down even more.

      The National had better get real or lose support.

      Alex Salmond got the AWPR built after forty years of waiting,. The turbines in the bay spewing out money lighting up the whole region. The Golf Development. Started.

      The Queensferry crossing, the railway, the hospitals, the support for NHS, the education support, the social care, renewables. the Welfare vutsmitigation. The major improvements all over Scotland.
      The only time unemployment in Scotland has been less than the rest of the UK.

      All these improvements count more than a unionists plot that misfired.

      The SNP standing up for Scotland. The unionists are going down. Including the Press. Sued the only thing that counters the lies. Habitual greedy liars. Just about every word they utter is a lie. SKy only get the date right. Murdoch 81 off with £30Billion he could never spend. Stolen from the taxpayers. Paying no tax for years for supporting the psycho bastards.

      The Westminster cabel and the sycophant tax evading Non Doms. The Press breaking every rule in the book. Breaking every Law in the land. The psycho bastards now getting their comeuppance in Court. Sanctioning, starving abd killing people illegally, around the world. The Brexiteers illegal funders are going to lose a lot of money. Going down. Bet the wrong way round. Poetic justice.

    362. Craig Murray says:

      Leslie Evans has form. When an officer at Edinburgh City Council she falsified a consultant’s report to influence a funding decision. This rambles a bit, but gives the full story including crucially an attestation from the consultant himself.
      http://www.kidsnotsuits.com/fake-news-how-public-lies-begin/

    363. Legerwood says:

      geeo @ 1.27 am

      “”Another day, another british nationalist troll-fest of “SNP/NS baaad”!!””

      Have you seen the letters page of the Herald this morning?

      It is a sight to behold. Wall to wall green ink. Russell, Edwards, Howell, Gallagher and Thomson in full flow howling at the moon and it is not even a full moon yet!

    364. Gary45% says:

      Anyone put Dick Lennons interview on Fri mornings shortbread.
      There was a link earlier but you have to register to listen to it.

    365. Legerwood says:

      Breeks @ 1.38 am

      “”Agreed, but why pursue the uphill option of a reluctant UK to revoke Article 50? Why not instead, or in parallel, request a clarification of the ECJ’s ruling that revocation of Article 50 is a sovereign prerogative, and seek an opinion on whether Scotland can revoke Article 50 unilaterally, citing the Claim of Right and Scotland’s Democratic will to stay in Europe?””

      The ECJ is unlikely to entertain such an application for the simple reason that Scotland is not an independent member state but part of a union, the UK, which is the member state.

      The Claim of Right, by which I assume you mean the Claim of Right of 1989 not 1689, has no legal standing.

      Scotland did indeed vote to Remain but trying to use that argument in any approach to the ECJ would be countered by the argument that it was a UK wide vote and the UK is the member state not Scotland.

      Again the fact that Scotland is not an independent member state of the EU renders such an approach pointless.

    366. Nana says:

      https://peterabell.blog/2019/01/12/the-snarling-of-the-beast/

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/sleepwalkers-2019-meet-their-unknown-destiny

      Week in Review: Brexit’s third act
      http://archive.vn/TaRMn

      Hitachi share price rises sharply today after it pulled out of big nuclear power investment while the Japanese PM was in Britain UK now seen by markets as such a bad place to invest that walking away from a MASSIVE existing investment is seen as better than sticking it out!
      Japanese company’s withdrawal from project would leave hole in UK energy strategy
      http://archive.vn/a1RWg

    367. Simon Curran says:

      Craig Murray@10.45
      Those are some allegations about Leslie Evans. Makes you wonder how she got her present job. Presumably this has all only just come to light.

    368. Ken500 says:

      Leslie Evans was involved in local government electoral ‘reform’ 2000. Introduced STV to give unionists unfair advantage? A unionist planted ‘sleeper’. Just waiting to out the boot in to destroy the Scottidh Gov and the Scottish economy. For £140,000 a year, a massive pension and a title. Working for the British State to try and ruin the Scottish economy. If the unionists are not stopped.

      Fifth columnists working against their own and Scottish interest. Psychophantic bastards. Lining their pockets on public money. Wasting £Billions. Mismanage, corruption, secrecy and lies. The murderous illegality of the Westminster unionists criminals. Most of them should be in jail. The courts are now having to sort them out. From trying to break the Law with impunity. They break the Laws that they make. Hiding their criminality under the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices. Dirty stinking cowards. Attacking the vulnerable. They will not get away with it.

    369. K1 says:

      She’s certainly a piece of work…manipulative to a fault and by the look of it, skilled at getting away with subterfuge and nasty undermining of others.

    370. Colin Alexander says:

      Claim of Right

      We, the sovereign people of Scotland, previously delegated our sovereignty to UK Parliament.

      UK Parliament abused the trust placed in them by the people of Scotland by failing to respect democratic choices made by the people of Scotland, such as the devolution convention and Remain in the EU vote.

      Thus, the sovereign people hereby withdraw our delegated sovereignty from UK Parliament. We proclaim the Scottish Parliament reconvened as exercising Scotland’s people’s sovereignty.

      The people of Scotland shall decide which powers are devolved to the UK. They will decide whether to amend or dissolve the Union completely.

    371. Gary45% says:

      I have not been out to laugh at the Gutter Press this morning, will look later.
      I noticed a comment regarding the National, it should come as no surprise,(it will show its true colours when Indy2 is called).
      Before anyone calls me a troll or any of that bollocks, the National has form. As stated on previous posts they lost it for me when Nicola was getting dragged through the gutter,remember (French Gate)? I never missed an issue up until then.
      Yes I know they have never claimed to be an SNP press source, but when people are dying daily by austerity caused by Unionist parties, the National has plenty of headlines it could use without falling into line with the rest of the garbage.
      As I said Indy 2, then wait and see.

    372. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      Does anyone know what happened to the National Yes Registry Indy App?

      Saying not available in your region on AppleApp Store.

    373. Scott says:

      O/T.Not a fan of either one of them but poor Brilo gets a bit upset

      https://on.rt.com/9m4j

    374. jezza says:

      Gary 45% 11.23am

      You said wait and see once IndyRef2 starts.

      What are we waiting to see???

      Genuine question Gary.

      Are you saying the National will not support Scottish Independence?

    375. Hamish100 says:

      evans– very unusual for a local government worker in leisure and recreation to end up head of the civil service. Unusual in that Civil servants tend to be career individuals and tend not to like outsiders from local government. How she go from there to where she is today. Who are her contacts?

    376. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      gus1940 at 8.39

      Must be a different National from the one I have just read. Sillars remarks are entirely moderate and there is no promotion of any SNP civil war bar a number of differnt opinions given by senior party members as is perfectly reasonable and understandable.The National would be out of order completely if it ignored the issue

    377. Breeks says:


      Cyber-Corroboree says:
      12 January, 2019 at 3:57 am

      Once Brexit happens Scotland no longer comes under EJC jurisdiction so why let such an opportunity go?

      Because there is a paradox at the heart of the Independence strategy which despite the pro-Indy rhetoric and platitudes, cannot decide if it prefers independence with or without a soft Brexit on the way, but wants to run down it’s own clock, not at all unlike Theresa May, to offload the ultimate responsibility for that devastating cleft in ideology onto somebody else.

      I’ll let you draw your own conclusions about that, because trust me, a lot of people would be extremely upset if I let fly with what I really think. I actually DO want Independence for my country, but frankly, it is being put at risk for airy-fairy ideals about a democratic process which is laudable in principle, but brutally compromised by state propaganda and pernicious indoctrination.

      The point I really struggle with, the reason I don’t shut up and take my SNP medicine, is that testing Scotland’s Constitutional potency in Law, if only to secure Legal Personality and a voice, is mutually compatible with both of these strategic objectives.

      Neither wrecking Brexit before it happens, or dooming Scotland to a terrible Brexit to continue the glacial conversion of the reluctant until we can win IndyRef2, strike me as strategic options which suffer any disadvantage or detriment in principle from securing Constitutional clarity in law that serves Scotland’s interests. It’s a veritable half-way house… a vital and essential voice to defend ourselves that doesn’t necessarily end the Union by itself. What fool would not seize hold of that failsafe Backstop when it is offered right there in front of us???

      I think it is profoundly naive and acutely dangerous to believe that our Constitutional opportunities before Brexit and under ECJ jurisdiction are going to be the same conditions we find ourselves to be in once outside the ECJ jurisdiction. Instead we’ll lying prostate in subservience before a Westminster Government determined to pull the wings of our Scottish butterfly. If our progress towards Indy has faltered these last two years, then brace yourselves, beyond Brexit we might find ourselves out of control and in full reverse, and reminded by the BBC that we deserve all we get.

      Westminster will ignore Scottish Sovereignty and the Claim of Right as if it doesn’t exist…. and who could blame them? We’ll have blazed the unconstitutional trail for them to follow, and we’ll be biting our nails too timid and disorganised to ask the UN for answers to questions we didn’t dare ask Europe when it might have a difference.

      76 days. Tick tock.

    378. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Salmond has won his case:

      “But we must think of the brave women who came forward putting thmselves through the ordeal of what was sure to happen with the media” says the media

      Creating the suggestion and implication that former FM is still guilty because two complainants say so even though its just been proven there was fiddling with the evidence going on

      Now the women complainers may or may not be truthful witnesses that’s yet to be established but in the medias rampant desire to convince everyone that former FM Salmond is clearly guilty of something they keep pounding away at the notion that the two complainers are without the shadow of a doubt truthful and upstanding citizens when that at this moment has not been tested in court while at the same time attempting to absolve themselves of biased reporting and their own involvement in the leaking of information or misinformation (pick one) but of course you shouldn’t pick any because the facts have yet to be known, but still the press pound on

      The current FM Nicola Sturgeon now stands accused of both colluding with and intervening against Alex Salmond, again (pick one) yes you should because the media is telling you just that, pick guilty or guilty they say, yet when it comes to the civil service who handled this case the press tells you that they made a terrible mistake but lets move on to the blaming of the people we’re really after

      Whatever we do we must never remember the press’s involvement in any of this because they are bastions of truth and justice and merely reporting it all for our benefit and to help us understand this difficult situation of these guilty politicians and their evil ways, and they (the press) do it all with straight faces and serious tones

      Can anybody hear the snake in the Jungle book hissing

      Trussst in meeee and you’ll sseeee

    379. geeo says:

      Coco been drinking early today…what a load of gibbering pish.

      Sovereign Scots people have NEVER delegated/took back/delegated/ping ponged our Sovereignty, in nearly 700 years.

      Sovereignty does not work like that, you are either Sovereign or you are not. Scots people have a legal document PROVING our sovereignty.

      Keep off the morning drinking, coco, and seek help, you have a bit of a problem there.

    380. Nana says:

      An accident caused by cracks at Hunterston nuclear power station could cause “another Chernobyl”, warns Dr Ian Fairlie at Holyrood briefing.
      https://twitter.com/robedwards53/status/1082995822822858753

      I posted this article earlier in the week
      https://theferret.scot/cracks-hunterston-reactors/

      https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0111/1022739-brexit-tony-connelly/

      The million Uighur Muslims whom China is detaining until they renounce Islam and their ethnicity, they must be happy, right? During a staged visit, they were forced to sing, in English, “If You’re Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands.” End of story.
      Link to article
      https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1082005177861922816

      That’s all for today

    381. Robert Peffers says:

      @pipinghot says: 11 January, 2019 at 9:06 pm@

      … Thanks Nana @ 8:19 PM for the link, still wondering why we are trying to save england from brexit. Can anybody explain this to me?”

      Of course we can explain it, pipinghot. It really is very simple and clear. We have no arguments with the normally good, kind and friendly people of England, or to be more correct Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth of the Kingdom of England’s subjects in Wales, N.I. and England.

      They, like us, are victims of the Westminster Establishment and many of them are indeed family members of the people of Scotland. Our arguments are with the Westminster Establishment whose political wing is Her Majesty, Queen of the Kingdom of England’s parliament at Westminster.

      Which parliament calls itself the United Kingdom Parliament but the United Kingdom legally only has two, equally sovereign, kingdoms as its partners. Westminster, though, does not govern as a two equal kingdoms Partner parliament but as a four unequal country parliament with only the country of England having no, elected as such, parliament.

      That makes Westminster the de facto parliament of the country of England that, by devolving some few English powers under English law, make England the masters and the other three devolved administrations as subservient dominions of England.

      The written constitution, (The Treaty of Union), set up a united Kingdom with only two kingdoms as partners – it does not set up the country of England as the master race with three subservient countries under English rule.

      That means the Treaty of Union is forever totally illegally broken and abandoned. It is thus the fault of the Westminster Establishment and not the people of England, (country or kingdom), that is the enemy.

    382. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Might I suggest that any senior SNP figure, elected or otherwise, offering the media opinions at this point about the leadership of the SNP are playing into our opponents hands.

    383. call me dave says:

      @Dr Jim

      Just got in from shopping and caught Shortbread on the car radio.

      Shereen and her gang jumping all over the Sturgeon / Salmond story and they gave it laldy for 5 mins SG and SNP very very bad.

      Utter disgrace from Auntie wie a kilt. 🙁

      “Calm down Dave” she says to me “put on the CD player” 🙂

    384. Mike says:

      Ive never subscribed to the National mainly because of its direct links to the Herald and they keep justifying that distrust by continuing to follow the Herald line on every anti SNP Scottish government scandal dreamed up by the opposition and spun out in the media.
      Kathleen Nutt seriously?
      If the idea of the national is to provide political balance then it fails. Its a sop a fig leaf attempt at trying to pretend there is a hope of media balance in Scotland. Its no better than the sop they try to give us with the Sunday Herald.
      I want all media to be factual and accurate not tainted or opinionated or influenced. Just the facts jack and let us as readers come to our own conclusions and bias. That’s all we pay you for.

    385. Colin Alexander says:

      Gerry said:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:38 am
      @Colin Alxeander

      “3/ Sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people and their expression of will would be required for such a change.”

      Colin: The people of Scotland voted for a devolution settlement. They voted for an EU settlement. These have been violated. UK Govt have already refused indyref talks with “not now” after the Scottish Parliament approved indyref talks. How many more democratic events does it take?

      But, I would agree this would be a good question to put to the people:

      Should a Scottish Parliament represent the people of Scotland’s sovereignty? Aye / No.

      Once that question is answered, then we can decide on independence or whatever we like without seeking permission from UK Parliament or UK Govt.

      Those who favour the union would have to argue not only in favour of the union but, a union where unelected Lords can rule over democratically elected MSPs.

      You favour democracy?

      The choice would be democracy for Scotland v the tyranny of UK Parliament Lords.

    386. Terence callachan says:

      Robert peffers not quite not quite…
      You repeatedly try to convince everyone that it’s not actually people in England that control Scotland and treat Scotland badly and do all they can to stop Scotland having independence , as if it’s some fairy or ghost that is responsible.
      You say it’s Westminster as if Westminster has nothing whatsoever to do with the people in England knowing full well that it’s those people of England that vote those MP,s into Westminster.
      Well….you are not getting away with that nonsense.
      It is England, Westminster, the people in England included that control Scotland and treat Scotland badly and do all they can to stop Scotland having independence.
      There are some ,certainly not all and definitely not a majority or near it, that don’t care about Scotland and don’t treat Scotland badly or want to stop Scotland being independent but they are a tiny number, nearly all the people in England consider themselves BRITISH ,a large proportion dislike Scotland because they see Scotland as trying to break up their precious union ,many of them would gladly dissolve the Scottish parliament and not just refer to Scotland as northern Britain or a northern county ,part of England, they would make Scotland an English county and ban Scottish independence forever.
      Get a life, mr peffers get real, England is its people it’s people choose who is in Westminster and Westminster carries out its deeds as instructed by the majority as you are seeing right now with brexit.
      What Scotland suffers at the hands of England is carried out by Westminster as instructed by the majority of people in England.
      Yes there are many nice people in England, as many nice people in England as in any other country around the world but it is also true that many of the people in Scotland who vote NO to Scottish independence and vote for the Conservative party or the Labour Party or the Lib Dem’s here in Scotland are also nice people but in terms of politics and Scottish independence they are our enemies, we hope to change their view and get them on our side but they are our political enemies until that is done.
      That is a fact.
      You are either out of touch or up to something a bit more sinister to suggest that people in England have nothing to do with the suppression of Scotland and that it’s all just a Westminster dastardly deed.

    387. geeo says:

      Stop drinking coco, you are making a complete arse of yourself (even more than normal).

      Coco’s latest plan, Scots vote away their legal sovereign power, right at the very moment of truth where it is needed…!!

      Aye, right ye are coco.

    388. geeo says:

      Jeezo…
      Coco, magic mike XXS and terence the bigot, all spewing out gibberish together at same time.

      Smell that ?

      Thats the smell of Unionist bulls**t, and panic.

      The more they post their gibbering pish, the more they are panicking about losing their precious union.

      Not long now chumps, not long now.

    389. Gerry says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Asking Scots to vote on something that is intrinsically theirs anyway ? Not exactly a triumph of political tactics.

      The matter and validity of sovereignty would only really potentially come into question after an expression of that sovereign will had been exercised and was not compatible with the current arrangement, so let’s not put the cart before the horse.

    390. Terence callachan says:

      To Ian brotherhood……your meeting of wings supporters to watch the Scotland in union sneaks have their haggis ….wish I could make it….have your camera ready to get a photo of any of them wearing their Kilt back to front, there’s always one with the pleats at the front…?

    391. Terence callachan says:

      To geeo / cubby…
      Keep taking your medicine ….get well soon

    392. Phronesis says:

      The pretendy parliaments are at WM presiding over a pretendy democracy. They offer no solutions to the most pressing problems and still they hurtle towards Brexit dragging Scotland, the country, down into the sinkhole of increasing inequality and child poverty, environmental harms, degraded human rights, economic ruin for many businesses concerns.

      ‘The local child poverty estimates are broken down by parliamentary constituency, local authority and ward. Child poverty is the highest in large cities, particularly in London, Birmingham and Manchester. Among the twenty parliamentary constituencies with the highest levels of childhood poverty, seven are located in London, three in Birmingham, and three in Manchester’

      http://www.endchildpoverty.org.uk/more-than-half-of-children-now-living-in-poverty-in-some-parts-of-the-uk/

      ‘lifetime homelessness’ was significantly more prevalent in the UK and US – both countries with relatively high levels of poverty and income inequality – than in Belgium, Germany and Italy.First, it has made clear that, in the UK at least, homelessness is not randomly distributed across the population, but rather the odds of experiencing it are systematically structured around a set of identifiable individual, social and structural factors, most of which, it should be emphasized, are outside the control of those directly affected’

      http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02673037.2017.1344957

      ‘England has poorer health outcomes than the average across the EU15+ (the 15 EU countries in 2004 plus Canada, Australia and Norway) in most areas studied, and the rate of improvement in England for many outcomes is lower than across the EU15+. This means that unless current trends improve, England is likely to fall further behind other wealthy countries over the next decade.
      The marked inequalities observed in most key outcomes are likely to widen over the next decade as problems in areas such as infant mortality and obesity are worsening more quickly amongst the most deprived section of the population’

      http://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/child-health-england-2030-comparisons-other-wealthy-countries

      ‘The report found that when you took the externalized costs into effect, essentially NONE of the industries was actually making a profit. The huge profit margins being made by the world’s most profitable industries (oil, meat, tobacco, mining, electronics) is being paid for against the future: we are trading long term sustainability for the benefit of shareholders. Sometimes the environmental costs vastly outweighed revenue, meaning that these industries would be constantly losing money had they actually been paying for the ecological damage and strain they were causing.

      http://www.exposingtruth.com/new-un-report-finds-almost-no-industry-profitable-if-environmental-costs-were-included/

      ‘In short, the report needs to be offered as a retort against aggressive forecasts for shale production growth. Drilling is clearly on the rise and U.S. oil production is expected to increase for the foreseeable future. But the lack of profitability remains a significant problem for the shale industry…a new report finds that shale drilling is still largely not profitable. Not only that, but costs are on the rise and drillers are pursuing “irrational production.’
      http://www.businessinsider.com/shale-industry-not-profitable-irrational-production-2018-1

      Honest and efficient prudent public governance requires honest and efficient prudent government investing wisely in sustainable, ethical funds,investing in future generations – Scotland has that, WM is not that.

    393. Mike says:

      @geeo

      Once again you didn’t actually explain what you’re grievance actually was just flung a gibbering wee brainless accusation without substance.
      You actually going to pretend the National isn’t running with the Herald the Hootsdross the mirror and sun group of tabloid rags with the Alex Salmond vs Nicola Sturgeon showdown spin?

      If not then whats you’re fucking problem this time?

    394. Terence callachan says:

      To Mike…..
      I don’t buy the national either, I appreciate a lot of its content but every now and then you get an article that makes you wonder, yes I know people will say balanced reporting but in my opinion balanced reporting is only effective if it’s the norm and in Scotland it certainly is not the norm, what we really need in Scotland is an out and out pro Scottish independence newspaper one that does what the britnat s do one that is a never ending report of Westminster baaad ,conservatives baaad Labour baaad ,Lib Dem’s baaad ,BBC baaad , that’s what we really need and the national is not that so for me it fails.
      I agree there is something not right in it being owned by the herald.

    395. Terence callachan says:

      To Craig Murray…..thanks for the link about EVANS….shocking that people like this make their way to the top, I fear there is more shocking information to come out about her and her accomplices

    396. Terence callachan says:

      To Craig Murray…

      I’m now following Angus B MacNeil….thanks

    397. yesindyref2 says:

      All it needs is Rock don’t buy the fake indy supporting National and it’s a full arse house, flag trolls on dunces.

    398. geeo says:

      Oh dear, the terminally desperate pish gibberers are all upset, such a wee shame.

      “My name is mike XXS, and i over-compensate for my lack of, well…everything…I weally weally want to scream abuse at folk, but too scared to do so”

      Thats you in a nutshell, wee mike XXS.

      You ask, “whats my fucking problem”?

      Thats easy, you are a pish gibbering, anti Scottish independence, agitator, who PRETENDS to be pro indy but posts stuff which completely prove you are not.

      While you keep doing that, i will call you out on it.

      Clear enough for you ?

      What you gonna do about it, you sad little man, swear again ? Woop de do.

    399. Gary45% says:

      jezza@11.29
      I have my doubts, I hope I am proved wrong, but the as said the National in my opinion is Indy light.
      This is just my opinion which goes for nothing at the end of the day.

    400. Hamish100 says:

      oh dear
      For the readers of the “Apologist”
      I dont buy the National because its linked with the Herald they cry. Will they buy or read the National if it was owned by the Hootsmon, Record, Times , Mail or Express. Do you not read the Metro– cos its free. Reality check required.

      Get a life guys.

      If you dont support the National then you support Unionist papers.

      Incidentally I find the Sunday National a good read even if I dont agree with all its contributors. That is how it should be.

    401. wull2 says:

      My advice is do not trust anyone, just vote YES or SNP, nothing else.

    402. Mike says:

      @Hamish100

      What kind of a gibbering rational is that?
      If you don’t buy or read the National who said anything about buying or reading I said subscribing. you cant judge a product if you don’t use it first. You cant critique something you haven’t read.
      If you support the National you have no idea where you funding ends up because it goes into the same pot subscriptions to the Herald end up.

      Get a brain.

    403. jfngw says:

      I suspect this week the BBC has spent more time talking about Salmond/Sturgeon than they have about the Brexit effect on Scottish industry (bar fishing, they even have another TV series coming up about it) in the last 2 1/2 years.

      They seem fixated with bringing down the SNP, they even have their journalists reacting to SNP supporters, rarely any other party supporters. They have no interest reporting the effect of Brexit on Scotland, they believe ignorance is bliss as far as the union is concerned.

      Elsewhere, I see old George appears to have been too drunk to find the station name in English at Linlithgow. Is it time for minimum pricing at the Lords bar?

    404. Mike says:

      @Geeo

      And yet again you splutter your withering pish without actually articulating a justification for your grievance. What have I said thats anti Indy support? EVER?
      You’ve managed to accuse me several times of being a pro union troll yet you haven’t actually once been able to justify the accusation.
      So again lets see you try with my point about the National.
      Gormless wee arse.

    405. Daisy Walker says:

      O/t Can I point people in the direction of John Nicholsons twitter account, and if you scroll down a wee bit, you’ll see a Channel 4 clip of MP Lammy (English Labour MP) giving it laldie.

      Very, very good, and also very useful for us. if anyone can do the link thing, that would be great. I’d suggest this one is a keeper.

      For those short on time, he say’s we were lied to, lied to about the NHS, lied to about jobs, lied to about less immigration… Brexit he says, will lead to More Immigration, not less, any attempt to deal with India and China will result in them insisting on Visas, Visas, and more Visas and the UK will be too week to say no….’

      Coming from Mr Lammy, this is powerful stuff. He also makes reference that people from his own party didn’t want him to go ahead with his criticisms.

      Peace and love to all.

    406. Giving Goose says:

      Does anyone have a view on the EIS strike ballot?
      Are there British Nationalist agitators and moles in the EIS?
      Any strike action with Brexit on the horizon seems very bad timing IMHO.

    407. Jim McIntosh says:

      Terence Callachan
      @1:03pm

      My first thought on your comment was that an out and out Indy paper would serve little purpose as the only people buying it would be Indy supporters.

      However i’m guessing the only people who buy The National are in that same group, so why NOT a paper that goes ‘full Indy’? The challenge would be to to anticipate the ‘SNPBad’ story in the unionist rags daily and provide a counter argument the same day.

    408. Colin Alexander says:

      @Gerry

      I agree with you: we are already sovereign. But UK Parliament exercises that sovereignty on our behalf. We can take back control.

      A cross-party group of MSPs, went to the House of Lords, asking them to respect Scottish democracy.

      The MSPs should have been saying: We represent Scottish democratic will. Lords, YOU WILL respect that democratic will of the sovereign people or the people of Scotland will sack you.

      By the Claim of Right, the sovereign people of Scotland sacked a King for ignoring the will of the people, so could and should sack UK Parliament, especially the Lords too.

    409. Mike says:

      @Terence callachan

      Exactly! sites like wings and Newsnet are providing the balance against the overbearing weight of pro unionist media by being overbearingly pro Indy. That’s the ONLY way actual balance can be achieved in Scotland. Yet unlike the pro unionist cabal of propaganda merchants Wings and Newsnet operate by providing substance and reference to their arguments so it can actually be judged on merit or demerit. In the case of pro union propaganda it comes context free evidence free justification free substance free it consists mostly of accusation supposition probability possibility and manufacture and relies on its own sense of reputation. We are the mainstream media so our word is sacrosanct.
      The National doesn’t provide the needed propaganda balance in Scotland because it may provide a pro Indy spin on various sideline articles but on the truly big spins it follows the lead of the herald.
      In order for a publication like the national to provide a proper level of balance it has to operate in the manner of Wings and Newsnet anything less gives no balance at all.
      That’s due to the overwhelming nature of the unbalance provided by the pro union bias.
      Until the Media across the UK starts operating like a media and not somebodies pet project then balance can only be provided by somebody elses pet project providing a polar point of view.

    410. Colin Alexander says:

      “Scots vote away their legal sovereign power, right at the very moment of truth where it is needed…!!”

      That’s indyref if there’s a NO win.

      That’s why a YES /NO indyref was crap then and crap now.

      No is a blank cheque for: EVEL; dragged out the EU; devolution power grab; Rape Clause etc etc etc.

    411. Gerry says:

      @Colin
      Your cart is still in front of the horse.
      There needs to be an expression of sovereign will first.

    412. jfngw says:

      @Daisy Walker

      I think it is this one you are referring to

      https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1083442098551033857

    413. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Legerwood

      “The ECJ is unlikely to entertain such an application for the simple reason that Scotland is not an independent member state but part of a union, the UK, which is the member state.”

      Imagine Scotland held a Grand Convention (MSP, MPs & MEPs) and declared UDI. (I’m absolutely not advocating that is what we should do, but just imagine this happened). Would the ECJ ignore it out of hand? Would the UN ignore it out of hand. Or would they consider the grounds upon which it was felt necessary for the ancient nation of Scotland to declare UDI? My gut feeling – and I’m not even a layman in these matters so could be well off-base here – is that these international institutions would consider the grounds of such a declaration from Scotland.

      And, on that basis, I fail to say what difference there is between Scotland submitting a UDI to these institutions or Scotland submitting a UDR (Unilateral Declaration to Remain – in EU). Surely such a unilateral declaration (to Remain in EU) from a sovereign people is not within the remit of a national or domestic UK Gov to decide but one for an international court?

      In short, if it is within our power (sovereign people of Scotland) to submit a UDI to international arbitration, why can’t we submit a UDR to the same international bodies?

    414. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Gerry

      The “democratic action” referred to by Ms Cherry MP?

      I’m all for Scotland’s people being able to democratically choose between:

      MSPs representing their sovereignty v UK Parliament representing their sovereignty.

      Lets see Labour, who say they support the abolition of the House of Lords, as unionists, then arguing for the undemocratic House of Lords continued rule over democratically elected MSPs.

    415. jfngw says:

      I disagree with the Rev on his twitter feed that the SNP could handle this better, I can’t see any move that could stop the press attack.

      If the FM demands the Perm Sec is removed she will be accused of looking for a scapegoat, no matter what the truth is. Even if all the texts of the contacts between Salmond were released it would make no difference to the reporting (they’re already calling it clandestine, even though it was the FM that released the details).

      They have Nicola Sturgeon in their sites and hoping to bring her down, it’s what is wanted from the establishment. If they can’t achieve this it is as much damage to the SNP as possible. After all we now have all the media plus the unionist parties in a pile on.

      Waste of time in my case, I’ve voted SNP since before Salmond & Sturgeon, and will continue to until we are an independent country.

    416. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @12.40 pm

      “That is a fact.” LOL a very long opinion that needed the benefit of a paragraph break.

      Heavy Britnat presence = they are really worried. Aren’t you Terry old boy. Scottish independence is coming despite all you pretendy Independence supporters. This my opinion Terry old boy it is not a fact.

      Terry the proven liar does not even understand the difference between a fact and an opinion. Perhaps that’s why he lies – too stupid to know the difference. My opinion is that he is a Britnat and Britnats lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything. Sounds like Terry – not stupid but a deliberate liar.

      Pity there is no known medicine to rectify your lying Terry old boy.

    417. Daisy Walker says:

      https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1083442098551033857

      This is definitely it. Powerful stuff – and from an English MP it might well speak to our former No voters and now not so convinced Brexiteers.

    418. Alba 46 says:

      Craig Murray @1045

      Thanks for that Craig

      Not exactly pure as the driven snow. Someone with that history should not be anywhere near a position of authority.

      Rev, this one needs a good investigation????

    419. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cyber-Corroboree says: 12 January, 2019 at 3:57 am:

      “… Why Petra chooses to rubbish it and yourself is quite baffling.”

      Ablins, it micht be because, Breeks has never stopped being hypercritical of Nicola, the SG and the SNP and because there is no other alternative than the SNP to lead Scotland out of the union. The plain truth is that the SNP are the party that has brought us to this point and all others are Johnny come lately to the frae.

      Nicola Sturgeon has been in the SNP since she was a teenager and thus has dedicated her whole adult life to the cause of independence. She is a trained lawyer and as such could have been far better off financially, and had a lot less brickbats to fend of, by just practicing law.

      ” … I have seen this question of testing sovereignty and the ability of Scots to revoke article 50 raised several times, but to date no one seems to want to or be able to answer it.”

      That’ll be because there is absolutely no need for it to be either questioned or tested. It is the basic basis of The Scots Rule of Law. It underwrites just about everything under Scots law. We, the sovereign people of Scotland have legal right to roam in Scotland. Being legally sovereign we own Scotland.

      That doesn’t mean we can do as we like anywhere for there are laws that protect property and breaking those laws can see someone being sued for damage they cause. There are also laws of personal privacy that protect the privacy in the close proximity of dwellings, A sort of Peeping Tom Law.

      While there is no English style laws of trespass, mainly for safety reasons, you can be done for trespass on, for example railway lines, MOD property or upon other dangerous places. In Scotland no one but the police or authorised Traffic Control persons can clamp or tow away a vehicle parked upon private land and then levy a charge/fine to return the vehicle to its owners. They can in the Kingdom of England though.

      That’s just a few examples of everyday sovereignty of the people in Scotland under Scots law. There are many more less obvious examples.

      Furthermore the Westminster Establishment has studiously avoided all attempts to challenge Scottish Sovereignty in any form of law courts. They would obviously lose the challenge for it is written into the Treaty of Union and the very last thing Westminster wants is for that question to be settled in a court of law.

      Not that it is necessary for it to be taken to a court as the United Kingdom has not only signed up to the Human Rights legislation of the EU but as a member of the United Nations.

      Both of which organisations state that it is a basic human right for any easily identifiable group of people to claim the human right of self determination.

      Scotland is not only one of Europe’s oldest kingdoms and countries but has very distinctive unique languages and cultures recognisable as Scottish throughout the entire World and, never forget, Scotland was a recognised country before the Anglo Saxons gave the most southern parts of south Britain, (Essex, Wessex, et al), the name of Angle Land.

      ” … This option is only on the table for another few weeks. Once Brexit happens Scotland no longer comes under EJC jurisdiction so why let such an opportunity go?”

      Because it is not just the ECJ that has such laws and jurisdictions. So also has the CIJ:-

      https://www.icj-cij.org/en/court

      “The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations (UN). It was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946. The seat of the Court is at the Peace Palace in The Hague (Netherlands).”

    420. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @1.08pm

      I am sure Angus has plenty of Britnat and phoney independence supporters like you, Terry old boy , following him already.

    421. Macart says:

      @Daisy Walker

      Good catch. He didn’t miss much.

    422. Hamish100 says:

      mikey boy.

      Thanks I have a brain. Otherwise who are you trolling!!! lol

      The gibberish comes from those those who refuse to buy, read or worse are critical of the National while they tuck into a tunnock’s wafer and reading the Metro,

      The paper is one option with a pro independence slant. Don’t support it then you help the Unionists papers. It really is that simple with or without a brain.

    423. Gerry says:

      @Colin

      If you’re not being deliberately obtuse I apologise, but you don’t understand what the concept of sovereignty is and I am done trying to explain it to you.

    424. Mike says:

      Hamish100

      Where does the money from the National subscription go? To the Yes movement?

    425. Simon Curran says:

      I listened to David Lammys speech earlier. Full admission of both Tory and Labour. From a Scottish perspective every reason to get out of a toxic union.

    426. McDuff says:

      Hamish 100
      Look at what the Herald has been printing every day, a torrent of anti Sturgeon,anti Salmond, anti SNP and anti independence bile.
      Then look at the soft fluffy pro independence articles from the National.

    427. Gary45% says:

      As all the BritScot gutter press/media are continuing character assassinations of Nicola and Alex, will the National now start to do the same with the civil servants who are try to do the “dirty” on the above. Their headline should have been either about Evans/civil service or how about Stirling Council telling people its the Scottish Government to blame for Universal Credit as someone posted earlier.
      They continually miss the chance to have “Put the boot in” headlines.”
      The majority of punters in shops only see the headlines.

    428. Graeme says:

      For those who thinks a GE would solve anything

      https://i.imgur.com/adaNqtW.jpg

    429. Liz g says:

      Gerry @ 3.01
      There’s always one or two on here ( not Breeks) who misrepresent Sovereignty no matter how many times it’s explained.
      That used to be Rock’s play book till everyone stopped engaging over it.
      You’re quite right to stop.
      Clarify one or twice with each individual and if they keep on posting about it without taking the conversation forward then disengage,I find works for me.

    430. Gerry says:

      @Liz g

      You’re quite correct I agree.

      It just never ceases to amaze me how a person can suddenly lose 40 IQ points and not quite understand something fairly straightforward, when their agenda depends on their continued ignorance of it.

      Colin is one such article, and there are many.

    431. IZZIE says:

      O/T In Inverness today SNP stall in High Street staffed with committed individuals asking people to place stickers on various options including a further Brexit referendum and Independence. Articulate individuals engaging with the public who seemed to respond positively. Daughter who does not ‘do; politics said I never see any other party on the street doing this. Well done those foot soldiers

    432. Hamish100 says:

      McDuff,

      I don’t read the Herald

      The National is not to win us over but others.

    433. Proud Cybernat says:

      Anecdotal –

      Saw a largish Twitter poll yesterday asking: Should the UK leave the EU or Remain in the EU?

      Leave 54%
      Remain 46%

      After 20k+ votes.

      Anecdotal but bloody scary.

    434. Lochside says:

      Craig Murray@ 10.45..fascinating contribution on the malign career ascent of Leslie Evans. Yet another RUK cuckoo flown in to the higher echelon sinecures/jobs for life of Scottish society: Arts; Politics; Public life. A brass necked, bare faced lying idealogue, who apparently thinks ‘Churchill’ is an icon.

      Why do we tolerate these imperialist little Brits and their imperious manipulative ways? Their cold, voices dominating our airwaves and media with their unchallenged condescending tones?

      Our country has been revitalised by the increasing diverse populations settling and adding to a multicultural Scotland. Yet all that has been brought to nought by the stultifying hegemonic influence of the Anglo Saxon ascendancy over all our institutions. A poisoned political movement that is keeping us subjugated and is dragging us away from our place in the wider world through the imperial Brexit con trick.

    435. Legerwood says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 2.36pm

      “”Imagine Scotland held a Grand Convention (MSP, MPs & MEPs) and declared UDI. (I’m absolutely not advocating that is what we should do, but just imagine this happened). Would the ECJ ignore it out of hand? Would the UN ignore it out of hand””

      They would not ignore it but they would not recognise it as a legitimate route to independence.

    436. Davosa says:

      What a complete ‘James Hunt’ Ross is. A cowardly, little, fuckin weasel rather like Fluffy Mundell tbh

    437. Marie Clark says:

      Giving Goose @ 2.00pm you asked ” Does anyone have a view on EIS strike ballot”.

      Aye I do. Call me cynical, but I reckon it’s a sly move by Tricky Dickie and some of his union cohorts. Same as the strike that they agitated for with the women employed by GCC.

      I don’t really think that the EIS have their members well being at heart. It seems as if they have a reasonable offer on the table. At this particular time I don’t think anyone can expect a 10% pay raise from their employers. Where’s the money to come from. other services that’s where.

      Same with the equal pay for the women employed by GCC. The unons and Labour denied these ladies their rightful wages for years. Spent thousands of pounds on court cases to stop them from getting what was rightfully theirs. Council changes to SNP in charge,they are happy to settle with the ladies, trying to work out the payments. What happens, along comes Dick Dastartdly and his GMB pals to stir it up, call a strike, and these women lose more pay.

      All that SLAB and the unions are doing is looking for a big stick to beat the SNP with. So aye, I am cynical. It stinks to high heaven.

    438. Colin Alexander says:

      Gerry says:
      12 January, 2019 at 4:53 pm
      @ Gerry and @Liz g

      Enjoy your SNP indyref blinkers and patronising attitudes.

      Enjoy your “sovereignty” when the UK Parliament says No, you’re no getting one.

      Or enjoy another rigged indyref that produces a NO vote that will be taken as the green light for Scotland to be absorbed into an OFFICIAL UNITARY UK STATE.

      An indyref NO win = Scotland gone forever.

      RIP

    439. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside –

      Hear hear.

      We had a great chance, a few years ago, to get all this aired and sorted i.e.the stushie over Alasdair Gray’s ‘white settlers’ essay. Instead we got a tsunami of faux outrage which obliterated any hope of an adult discussion.

      There is no area of life in Scotland – not a solitary one I can think of at any rate – which is free from Establishment meddling. It’s impossible to discuss this openly without being accused of bigotry – the same ‘trick’ used by zionists to smother criticism of Israel is deployed by the UK msm to snuff any discussion of day-to-day colonisation.

      Fuckin sick of it.

      🙁

    440. Dr Jim says:

      Blaming the English Joe Public for all the ills of mankind is an enjoyable hobby for some but in truth is completely missing the point, it’s like blaming the first farmers for destroying trees to create farmland thus ruining their own environment, they don’t know any different

      If you’re a country with what you think is the proud heritage of going out and taking things from other people by force then you’re not used to anything else and if the governance of your country promote that attitude then what are you doing wrong?

      Scotland has always suffered from this policy leading to migration from our shores to look for salvation elsewhere so while you might not kill all the birds in the forest you eat all its eggs so the result is the same extinction for the birds

      Scotland is Englands golden eggs but they’re still so busy burning the trees down and eating the eggs they haven’t noticed they’re ruining the environment and nobody’s telling them to stop except us birds

      The government of England won’t tell them because they make money from not telling them and offer them no choice of whom to vote for to change the system, Tories Labour there’s no difference to the final result of voting for either of these political parties, but what else can you do if you live in England, they have no one to trust who won’t continue with slash and burn antil there’s nothing left

      Brexit is just another patch of deforestation leading to a worse future that they can’t see coming and they don’t believe anything anybody else tells them because they’re under leadership who really don’t want them to know

      Conserve the chickens and you’ll always have eggs, don’t eat all the eggs and you’ll always have chickens, it’s really that simple and you don’t need David Attenborough to work that out for you

    441. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Ledgerwood

      “They would not ignore it but they would not recognise it as a legitimate route to independence.”

      It has already been said here many times and more eloquently than I, but it is the inalienable right of any distinct group of people to become independent (should they so wish and, preferably, through democratic means). This is the path our ScotGov are taking. Should they succeed in returning a YES majority for an independent Scotland in IndyRef2 then there should be relatively little difficulty in getting that democratic vote recognised by the ECJ, ICJ and the UN.

      I don’t see why then, if Scots are a sovereign, distinct people that we cannot exert our sovereign will after a referendum whereby the majority of the people of Scotland voted to Remain in the EU? We have, in fact, already done this in the EU Referendum in 2016. The Scottish result is known and it was 62% Remain. The UK cannot argue that this was a “UK-wide” vote because they have already approved a differentiated deal (i.e. VOTE) for the people of Northern Ireland. So, if the N.I. vote can be differentiated from the UK-wide vote then that surely undermines the entire “UK-wide vote” argument and Scotland should perhaps approach the ECJ/ICJ/UN on that basis and exert our sovereign right as a nation within the UK and signatory to the Treaty that formed the UK to decide how we are governed i.e. submit a UDR (Unilateral Declaration to Remain – in EU) to those bodies.

      Then stand back and watch the fireworks.

    442. Dr Jim says:

      I have no doubt whatsoever the FM will be applying for a section 30 order soon to hold a referendum on Independence for Scotland, I also have no doubt that application will be refused by Westminster, and this is where my best guess comes in, I believe the FM will lodge a notice of intention to hold such a referendum with the ECJ and the UN and ask for arbitration on the substance of Scotlands claim of sovereign right as a Nation to do so and that right will be accepted by those bodies that the UK cannot object to as signatories to UN conventions

      The UK will then scream at the top of its voice and make every threatening noise under the sun and use every vile and devious method of interference they can even though the UN will have ruled they can not and the rest will be historical record

      Will the people of Scotland be terrorised again into voting NO or will they take their rightful place alongside the rest of the world as a free nation by voting YES

      If we lose again the prospects for Scotland will be very bad because we will lose the Scottish parliament in its current form and power to be replaced with a very real

      Government House of the Viceroys

    443. Phil says:

      Nicely laid out Dr Jim, 6:39 pm

      How, with no media tools in our locker will a YES be gained?

      Hard work. Pointed and sympathetic conversations. More hard work.

    444. Maria F says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      12 January, 2019 at 6:15 pm

      “So, if the N.I. vote can be differentiated from the UK-wide vote then that surely undermines the entire “UK-wide vote” argument”

      I am not sure the deal itself undermines the “UK wide” vote concept. But what it certainly undermines is the cheesy nonsense of the “precious union” that May attempted to peddle in 2016. Remember her words:

      “there will be “no opt-out from Brexit”
      “her Government would negotiate its departure from the EU “as one United Kingdom and we will leave the European Union as one United Kingdom.”

      If the deal is accepted every one of those 2 premises falls flat: NI has an opt-out from brexit and the UK is not departing the EU as “one united kingdom”. NI is being left behind.

      If NI gets a separate arrangement, that is Theresa May’s “assurances” of “her” precious union down the tubes.

      But there are other things that undermine the concept of the “UK wide” vote:
      1. The nature of the Union: it is not a unified country, it is a multinational political union. If it is a union, the result must be representative of ALL its integrating parts: the Kingdoms that form the union. The current result that has been accepted as official does not represent ALL the integrating parts of the UK, only one: the Kingdom of England.

      2. Who decided it was “UK wide”? Who decided to reject the quadruple lock suggested by our Scottish MPs and Plaid that would have made the vote in Scotland democratic instead of forcing Scotland to vote as if it was part of the Kingdom of England?So why should the people of Scotland respect the imposition of MPs elected by England who rejected the postion of our own legitimate representatives?

      3. The political and demographic nature of the Union:
      a. the distribution of population is not uniform – one of the integrating parts of the union has 90% of the electorate.
      b. the political trajectories of the 2 integrating parts of the UK are actually diverging so strongly that are actually close to be incompatible.
      Under those circumstances you cannot claim it was “a UK wide vote” and “it was a democratic vote” at the same time unless you have protected the minorities. No minority was protected. Scotland, Wales and NI were forced to vote as if they were England’s regions. So one or the two: or the vote was “UK wide” or the vote was “democratic” because without a quadruple lock or a brexit veto for Scotland, it could not have been both.

      “Scotland should perhaps approach the ECJ/ICJ/UN on that basis and exert our sovereign right as a nation within the UK and signatory to the Treaty that formed the UK to decide how we are governed i.e. submit a UDR (Unilateral Declaration to Remain – in EU) to those bodies”

      I am not going to hide that I was very disappointed that the UKgov was not taken to the ECJ by the Scot Gov when A50 was triggered without Scotland’s consent. I thought that it was a perfect timing to do so and to declare the triggering of A50 without Scotland’s consent unconstitutional, as the EU clearly stated that they would only accept the triggering of A50 by the Uk if it was done constitutionally. I must admit that as today, I do not yet understand why they did not use such opportunity to do so and stop brexit right on their tracks before it even started. Perhaps somebody in Wings knows the real reason for this. I would be most grateful for an explanation.

      I was also disappointed that the Scot gov just appeared to take on the chin (or it seemed to me that they did, maybe they didn’t at all and I am being completely wrong and unfair on this) that the UKgov abused its position of power to stall our continuity bill by taking our government to the English supreme court and in the meantime to change “by unelected lords” the law so our bill became ultra vires.

      It is true that the ScotGov and our Scottish MPs have not shut up about that ever since and they are bringing it up at any opportunity, and that is very welcome, but I was expecting such an outrageous act of abuse of power by the UKgov, such undermining of our democratically elected Scottish Parliament, and the blatant arrogance shown by destroying the status quo the people of Scotland voted for in 2014 and to unilaterally bulldoze the devolution settlement like they did, to spring the ScotGov into action on the ECJ or other international court alleging a breach of the treaty. Again, I welcome the views and explanation of those that think the Scotgov were right not to do so.

      Perhaps it is just wishful thinking and I am being too impulsive and unrealistic. I like to think that the Scot Gov carefully takes wisely secure steps (sometimes they feel like an eternity though) and therefore it is waiting for the dirty deed to be done to spring onto action: ie the Kingdom of England legitimate representatives going ultra vires by dragging Scotland without mandate or its consent out of the EU.

      Perhaps at that time the ECJ can still be approached to accuse the UKgov of acting unconstitutionally by both triggering A50 and removing the EU citizenship rights of the people of Scotland.

      However I cannot hide my fear that once these crooks have successfully overruled our democratic vote, successfully stolen our powers, bulldozed our claim of right and treaty of union by dragging us out of the EU against our will , our opportunities to fight for our rights in this unequal union are going to be drastically and progressively reduced to the point of becoming nonexistent.

      I must admit that I do not know how well I will be able to cope with the disappointment if Scotland ends up being dragged out of the EU after having voted 62% to remain and I do not see the ScotGov fighting the abuse of the UKgov in an international court to restablish our sovereignty, our claim of right and to break an already broken Treaty of Union or at least restablish the companion word “of equals” that have been missing from the expression “union” for over 300 years.

    445. Rock says:

      Terence callachan says:
      11 January, 2019 at 10:24 pm

      “To Rock…..
      I don’t agree with you about Nicola Sturgeon , I think her cautious approach is excellent .
      There is no hurry for Scottish independence, that’s not to say it should be put on the back burner, we want it and we want it now but we want it to succeed next time around for sure.”

      It was put on the back burner so that Nicola could flog her dead horse.

      The next available slot will be in 2640 AD.

      Or could you perhaps predict an earlier date when Nicola might call a referendum?

    446. jfngw says:

      Joanna Cherry took a UK government representative to task during the week and just received obfuscation.

      But in the corridors of government this is how they think regard answering questions and using Scotland’s resources for their own ends.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-szdLXeY5A

    447. cynicalHighlander says:

      Can we have a crowfunder for one of these.

      https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&q=rock+crusher+for+sale

    448. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 8:14 am

      “Evans is an agent of the British State.”

      Rock (8th January – “Brass neck gleaming”):

      “Ken500, if Evans and Mackinnon refuse to resign, should they be sacked within 24 hours or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, be brave, go on the record.”

      Cowards here never answer difficult questions, just post loads and loads of waffle.

    449. Abulhaq says:

      Seriously, can you blame England for exploiting the golden opportunity of a Scotland that has seemingly lost any reason to live? Never look a gift horse in the mouth, goes the old saw. This is a gift that just keeps on giving until the majority acquires the backbone to say ‘enough’.
      That ‘parcel of spineless Scottish rogues’ holding us back does really need to be taught a lesson.

    450. Rock says:

      gus1940 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 8:39 am

      “Re Eckgate – what the hell is The National up to?

      In today’s edition not only do they give the oxygen of publicity to the arch-tractor Sillars but they go on to shout from the rooftops that Civil War is now raging within The SNP.

      I have had a digital sub with the paper from day1.”

      What it has always been up to – to milk the most gullible independence supporters by pretending that it supports independence.

      Buy The National to keep its elder sister The Herald alive.

    451. heraldnomore says:

      Aye, I’m up for that, CH

    452. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Where in the UN does it say the right to self-determination must be by indyref just because the SNP want one at a time of their choosing?

      Scotland had an indyref in 2014, and elections in 2015, 2016 and 2017. It’s the SNP that denied people the opportunity to vote for an independence mandate for 5 years. Three years wasted on Brexit. So, I couldn’t see the UK Govt being found guilty of denying self-determination to Scotland.

      In any one of them, the people of Scotland could have voted Yes or voted for candidates who could have sought a mandate of independence for Scotland.

      I despise the UK Govt and they are guilty of many things but denial of elections where Scotland could have voted for independence is not one of them.

    453. McDuff says:

      Hamish woo
      “Others” don’t read the National.
      It’s scary you don’t get that.

    454. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:42 am

      “The National had better get real or lose support.”

      What? Have you stopped being one of its diehard supporters?

    455. Rock says:

      geeo says:
      12 January, 2019 at 11:52 am

      “Scots people have a legal document PROVING our sovereignty.”

      When was the last time “Scots people” exercised their pretendy “sovereignty”?

    456. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      12 January, 2019 at 12:01 pm

      “Might I suggest that any senior SNP figure, elected or otherwise, offering the media opinions at this point about the leadership of the SNP are playing into our opponents hands.”

      Are you suggesting some are?

    457. Dorothy Devine says:

      “When it can be said by any country in the world, my poor are happy, neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them, my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars, the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive, the rational world is my friend because I am the friend of happiness. When these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and government. Independence is my happiness, the world is my country and my religion is to do good.”
      ? Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

      What a man!

    458. Ron Maclean says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 6.08pm

      Desmond Tutu?: “When the missionaries came to Africa, they had the Bible and we had the land. They said “let us close our eyes and pray.” When we opened them, we had the Bible, and they had the land.”

      Should we continue to rely on the power of prayer? Should we actually do something before 2640?

    459. Rock says:

      jfngw says:
      12 January, 2019 at 2:41 pm

      “I disagree with the Rev on his twitter feed that the SNP could handle this better, I can’t see any move that could stop the press attack.

      If the FM demands the Perm Sec is removed she will be accused of looking for a scapegoat, no matter what the truth is.”

      So you are happy with a gutless SNP leader who is afraid of being accused by the unionist media?

      And you expect such a leader to bring idependence to Scotland?

      Rock (8th December 2018 – “The Stoned Roses”):

      “It was the ultimate in stupidity and gutlessness for Nicola to stand “shoulder to shoulder” with “Tory scum” Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

      She had no reason to open her mouth – she should have dismissed it as a reserved matter. That would have shut up the unionists. Instead she is now hostage to what she said.

      Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

    460. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 3:00 pm

      “mikey boy.

      Thanks I have a brain.”

      It would be a good idea to learn how to use it Nick Robinson.

    461. Giving Goose says:

      Marie Clark thanks.

      I’ll be emailing the EIS. Outrageous IMO.
      They need to f***ing get a grip.
      Do these EIS agitators not look at the bigger picture?
      Our children’s future is at risk from Brexit; put your union jack boxershorts away!

    462. Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish parliament passed legislation for an Independence referendum not the SNP you thick Yoon arsehole

    463. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 5:00 pm

      “McDuff,

      I don’t read the Herald

      The National is not to win us over but others.”

      The only ones who read The National are the 9,000 or so of the most gullible diehard independence supporters, the main target of The Herald’s younger sister.

    464. Rock says:

      Craig Murray says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:45 am

      “Leslie Evans has form. When an officer at Edinburgh City Council she falsified a consultant’s report to influence a funding decision. This rambles a bit, but gives the full story including crucially an attestation from the consultant himself.”

      Rock (8th January – “Brass neck gleaming”):

      “If Nicola does not sack these two within 24 hours, it will be proven beyond doubt that she has been bought by the British Establishment.”

    465. Pete Barton says:

      I see it’s Rock n roll night again.

      Frankly, this person has no positive thoughts

      and nothing to add to our conversations.

      As you like a wee challenge Rock,

      I dare you to present your views using your real name.

      And have the courage to do it.

      I use mine, why don’t you?

    466. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s the announcement of Evans getting the job.

      https://news.gov.scot/news/scottish-government-permanent-secretary-announced

      (Westminster-paid and seconded to Holyrood before we have a rerun of trolling on this issue)

      Its a five-year posting.

      So she’ll be gone by next summer anyway.

      Hopefully, so will we!

      But it would be interesting to know who were the candidates Nicola Sturgeon rejected.

    467. Rock says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      12 January, 2019 at 7:54 pm

      “Should we continue to rely on the power of prayer? Should we actually do something before 2640?”

      The clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here still think that Nicola is the messiah who will bring independence to Scotland.

      I believe once the messiah has flogged her dead horse in 2640 AD, she will call an independence referendum.

      In the meantime, she is too afraid to be accused of anything by the unionist media:

      jfngw says:
      12 January, 2019 at 2:41 pm

      “If the FM demands the Perm Sec is removed she will be accused of looking for a scapegoat, no matter what the truth is.”

    468. Bob Mack says:

      Rock,

      You hate lawyers and judges,therefore you must hate Nicola.
      You think there will be no referendum but still visit this site posting what you think.

      The reality is you are a bitter individual,probably due to a run in with the courts which you lost. Now, your objective is to try and make everybody as resentful and hate filled as you clearly are.

      Won’t work. We have hope for the future,whilst you have none.
      We have belief in each other,whilst you have nobody.

      I suggest you review your misery and let it go. Visit a Unionist site where you will find similar views. Otherwise you are treading water and making yourself nothing but piteous.

      Nothing,repeat nothing you post will change ,alter or affect my viewpoint on the future. I do not post to belittle you,but rather to point you in a more fulfilling outlet for your anger.

      You want us to get angry too, but actually I feel nothing for you at all, but sadness.

    469. Pete Barton says:

      Thankyou @ Bob Mack.

      I think Rock is Lesley Evans and claim my fiver.

    470. Fairliered says:

      Rock says:
      I talk shite. Ignore me.

    471. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim said: “The Scottish parliament passed legislation for an Independence referendum “.

      No they didn’t. They passed legislation for a formal request for talks about indyref2, which were ignored by UK Govt.

      “Now’s not the time”.

    472. mike cassidy says:

      How many trolls does it take to change a light bulb?

      2640!

    473. Hamish100 says:

      rock — I’ve said before I think you are a disgruntled record reporter looking for a way out to undermine.lol

      Remember for months you posted against the National when it started as you ran it down. Every night post after post. Then you stopped. For folk were buying it and online. Of course some outlets intentionally did not stock it.

      Yip every night you did it then stopped. Weird behaviour I think.
      The Sunday National is a good paper. Delivered to my door. Ahhh bliss.

      You read the guardian I believe or don’t you read? Labour and torydum are in a mess don’t you think.

    474. Colin Alexander says:

      Are bookies offering odds on who resigns first? :

      A. Evans or B. Sturgeon

      As a trained lawyer and very very experienced politician, she should have known better tsk tsk.

      Nevermind, she got four years in the job and can still continue to be an MSP.

    475. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Abulhaq

      “That ‘parcel of spineless Scottish rogues’ holding us back does really need to be taught a lesson.”

      We see you.

    476. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Alexander
      “Nevermind, she got four years in the job and can still continue to be an MSP.”

      We see you.

    477. Colin Alexander says:

      I’ll buy the National and frame it on my wall the day I read these headlines:

      “Wingsoverscotland crowdfund Alex Salmond and it leads to Nicola Sturgeon resigning as FM and Party Leader”.

      Then:

      “Alex Salmond rejoined the SNP and became the party leader and head of the campaign which guided Scotland to independence”.

    478. Old Pete says:

      Still no civil war in Prestwick? Guess the SNP civil war has been grossly exaggerated by the British anti-Scotland political parties and their media allies.

    479. Hamish100 says:

      E Coli A

      You are struggling tonight for a new line. Even you and rock must be bored. lol

    480. geeo says:

      geeo says:
      12 January, 2019 at 11:52 am

      “Scots people have a legal document PROVING our sovereignty.”

      …………
      When someone quotes you posting a LEGAL FACT, then answers you with this drivel below, you just know they are a) trolling or b) thick.

      Who else….rock.

      “When was the last time “Scots people” exercised their pretendy “sovereignty”?
      …………..

      Proven sovereignty, simply cannot be “pretendy”.

      All those people reading this blog can see, is yet another day, another british nationalist troll-fest by obvious moronic trolls.

      The casual reader is simply not going to take the moronic ramblings of posters like rock and his wee team of acolytes, coco, mike and callachan the bigot, remotely seriously.

      As the day of reckoning creeps ever closer, their panic is tangible now, and we have not even started the end game yet.

      Here is a prediction, Scotland will become independent in 2019.

      Want to bet me £1000 rock ?

    481. Meg merrilees says:

      No civil war here in Stirling – streets are quiet.

      SNP out and about chapping doors today and seems most people round here want Brexit cancelled and are champing at the bit to get going for Independence.

      So the AS versus NS wrestling match has nae takers here.



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