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All change in Moray

Posted on January 10, 2019 by

Blimey, that was quick. This was Tory MP Douglas Ross yesterday:

Short version: “I don’t care what my constituents want, I will vote loyally for the party I was elected as a member of.”

And this is him today:

Never let it be said Wings readers don’t get things done.

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    654 to “All change in Moray”

    1. geeo says:

      Coco lost the plot again i see……actually hilarious!!!

      We got the cast for the remake of one flew over the cuckoo’s nest right here…!

    2. cynicalHighlander says:

      heraldnomore I looked for one about £/$2,640 but all drew a blank, 2,019 might of produced a result if i had looked damn.

    3. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 8:39 pm

      “You read the guardian I believe or don’t you read?”

      Nick Robinson, you must absolutely make sure you get your meds before a No Deal Brexit.

      Hamish100 says:
      12 January, 2019 at 3:00 pm

      “mikey boy.

      Thanks I have a brain.”

      Those with a brain can usually save memories, Nick.

    4. Ken500 says:

      David Lammy speaks the truth in Westminster. An infrequent occasion.

      Labour are rubbish because of Corbyn lies.

    5. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 January, 2019 at 8:21 pm

      “Nothing,repeat nothing you post will change ,alter or affect my viewpoint on the future.”

      If you believe Scotland will become independent before 2640 AD, when roughly do you think it will happen?

      Do you believe that the dishonest unionist civil servants Evans and Mackinnon should have been sacked by Nicola?

      I am not asking you to change your viewpoints, just asking you to be brave enough to go on the record with them.

      Challenge mine by give yours.

    6. Cubby says:

      Decided to not go into Glasgow city centre tonight – heard there was a scary SNP civil war going on.

    7. Ken500 says:

      Scotland pays (portionate) for Westminster expense and overseas foreign embassies etc through the Barnett Formula. Another addition that benefits the Westminster unionist troughers and London S/E. All the massive sdministrstion buildings around the Mall and Westminster. Jobs which benefit London S/E instead of being based in Edinburgh/Glasgow. Holyrood is a much more efficient and cheaper administration. Less pomp and ceremony. It will take £Billions to renovate Westminster. It is crumbling down. Just like the administration.

      Independence (SNP) supporters will be buying MSM papers.

    8. Rock says:

      Rock says:
      12 January, 2019 at 7:48 pm

      “When was the last time “Scots people” exercised their pretendy “sovereignty”?”

      geeo says:
      12 January, 2019 at 9:04 pm

      ” When someone quotes you posting a LEGAL FACT, then answers you with this drivel below, you just know they are a) trolling or b) thick.

      Who else….rock.

      “When was the last time “Scots people” exercised their pretendy “sovereignty”?
      …………..

      Proven sovereignty, simply cannot be “pretendy”.

      All those people reading this blog can see, is yet another day, another british nationalist troll-fest by obvious moronic trolls.

      The casual reader is simply not going to take the moronic ramblings of posters like rock and his wee team of acolytes, coco, mike and callachan the bigot, remotely seriously.

      As the day of reckoning creeps ever closer, their panic is tangible now, and we have not even started the end game yet.

      Here is a prediction, Scotland will become independent in 2019.

      Want to bet me £1000 rock ?”

      I see you have been forced to admit that “Scots people” have never exercised their “sovereignty” because it is unexercisable, pretendy “sovereignty”.

      Toy “sovereignty”, like the toy police cars children play with.

    9. Capella says:

      Watched Brexit: An Uncivil War on Channel 4 catchup. You don’t need a TV licence to watch it. Quite scary to see the level of manipulation going on. Well acted with newsreel footage to give an authentic feel.

      https://www.channel4.com/programmes/brexit-the-uncivil-war

    10. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please have a look at the WOS article below, and if you know of any further developments in the whole SIU saga, please let me know.

      Some of us will be there in Glasgow on the 24th as they arrive for their Burns Dinner and it would be good to have a really short sharp question for the likes of Murdo Fraser. Last year I asked them if they’d found out who the ‘mole’ was but that isn’t topical now – if anyone has any suggestions I’m all ears!

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-tools-of-the-union/#comments

    11. Cubby says:

      Rockshit = Britnat shit = verbal diarrhoea.= Britnat clown.

    12. Cubby says:

      Ian Brotherhood@9.48pm

      You could ask Murdo if Clair Ridge is attending the Burns Dinner.

    13. sassenach says:

      The site has been heavily ‘infected’ today, which is always a good sign – they are getting more scared by the day!!

      Nothing they say or whatever $hite they utter will have any effect, apart from making us all more determined than ever to secure Indy.

      Laugh at them, don’t engage.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      Rock.

      OK here it is. I know that another referendum will be called for. When ? Within the next year when we know the full outcome of Brent. Not before.

      That may not suit yourself ,but it is better than UDI which you favour and would inevitably lead to civil war much as we saw in N Ireland. Do not think for one moment that Loyalist extremists would just accept such a decision. Do you really believe sectarian violence a price worth paying ?

      The Loyal Orange Lodge publicly acknowledged this outcome.

      They have finance and contacts both in Ireland and throughout the UK. Never mind the legalities, think about the violence.

      If you truly believe Rock that there will be no referendum till 2600, then why come to this site. We will all be dead by then.

      No Rock, that’s not what you are about. You are about rabble rousing. The mob suits your own predisposition for hatred. You live by hatred and resentment.

      This is infertile ground for ideas like yours Rock. We want freedom without bloodshed. I think I will call you Che Rock from now on.

    15. sassenach says:

      Cubby @ 9-54

      A beauty!! But would Murdo even understand??

    16. stewartb says:

      Earlier there were various references to Universal Credit.

      For those interested in the subject of social security and how we should provide it, the link below to a thread on Twitter about the ‘Scottish Social Security Charter’ is worth a read – another example of living in the early days of a better country.

      https://twitter.com/knittingquark/status/1083701563145834496

      For more on the Charter that has now been presented to the Scottish Parliament see:
      https://www.alliance-scotland.org.uk/blog/news/social-security-charter-presented-to-the-scottish-parliament/

    17. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cubby –

      🙂

      Nice one!

    18. wull2 says:

      You would think there is something else is going on when so many squirrels are out, don’t feed them.

      I know it is a game, but it just encourages other squirrels to join them.

    19. Terence callachan says:

      To Stewartb……
      I think the Scottish social security charter is great but it won’t apply to 99% of people claiming benefits, it will not apply to Jobseeker’s Allowance or income support or universal credit or child benefit or state pension or pension credit etc,
      It will only apply to those benefits administered by the Scottish parliament which at present is carers allowance and not much else

    20. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@10.18pm

      Is that a fact?

      That sounds useful info to know Terry old boy but can we trust Its accuracy as it has been posted by a known liar who struggles to understand there is a difference between fact and opinion.

    21. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable has claimed he was told by civil servants about contingency plans to slaughter a third of British sheep if there is no deal.”

      http://archive.is/uOfYR

      Wonder if the farmers who voted Tory at the last GE have been told?

      Also wonder if they will get a decent price for the carcasses or if these will be taken for rationing to the public and the farmers not reimbursed?

    22. Terence callachan says:

      To Rock…..
      You asked me to predict when Nicola Sturgeon will announce a date for another Scottish independence referendum.
      Yes I will

      I predict she will announce the date of another Scottish independence referendum, the day after Brexit is finalised
      Finalisation is all she is waiting for
      As we have seen week in week out for two years all we have had from Westminster is false statements lies and promises that never come true
      The Westminster propaganda machine wants to make sure as many of those who voted No to Scottish independence last time will do so again and the way to do that is to promise them the earth whilst scandalising Nicola Sturgeon Alex Salmond and the SNP
      They are well into their planned attack on democracy in Scotland but not enough have taken the bait yet so it lingers on but they are running out of time and I don’t see them getting anything else on Nicola Sturgeon so be prepared for more lies and tittle tattle

    23. Terence callachan says:

      To cubby and geeo…..get well soon ?

    24. wull2 says:

      How to spot a troll.

      They talk to each other to engage you.

      You very Seldom get a troll telling you to vote YES.

    25. Legerwood says:

      Proud cybernat @ 6.15 PM

      “”It has already been said here many times and more eloquently than I, but it is the inalienable right of any distinct group of people to become independent (should they so wish and, preferably, through democratic means). This is the path our ScotGov are taking. Should they succeed in returning a YES majority for an independent Scotland in IndyRef2 then there should be relatively little difficulty in getting that democratic vote recognised by the ECJ, ICJ and the UN.””

      An Independence referendum and a Yes vote in that referendum is, as far as I am concerned, the only route to Independence and the only route where International recognition of the result would be assured.

      As I said in my previous response to your imagined scenario of MPs, etc it would not work.

      There seems to be a cohort of people who proclaim that tpeople oscotland are sovereign but propose an ever more convoluted legalistic route that seems to exclude the people from any direct role in the decision.

      You also said at 6.15pm “”I don’t see why then, if Scots are a sovereign, distinct people that we cannot exert our sovereign will after a referendum whereby the majority6 of the people of Scotland voted to Remain in the EU? “”

      If ‘a referendum’you refer to above was the EU referendum then the simple fact is that, while it is the will of the people to stay in the EU, Scotland is not an Independent country but exists within a Union that forms the
      Internationally recognised state, the UK.

      So first and foremost we have to get our independence. All else flows from that. For me the route to independence is via a referendum.

      As to the situation in NI that arose because of the wilful pig-ignorance of the Westminster Government. The same pig-ignirance that has ignored Scotland throughout the Brexit process which must surely hasten the yes vote in Indyref2.

    26. stewartb says:

      Terence callachan @ 10:18 pm

      You wrote: “I think the Scottish social security charter is great but it won’t apply to 99% of people claiming benefits, it will not apply to Jobseeker’s Allowance or income support or universal credit or child benefit or state pension or pension credit etc, ”

      Well of course – that is obvious given the devolution settlement – and very regrettably so IMHO! As with my earlier post here about ‘Universal Credit Scottish Choices’ – the mitigating actions being introduced by the SG – the Charter is one more indication of a better direction of travel and a clear indication of better intent than we see coming from Westminster.

      Recognise the Charter’s (and our SG’s) limitations but yes let’s also be generous when acknowledging when good is being done!

    27. Legerwood says:

      From the Guardian on line

      Military planners sent to various Government Ministries to help with no deal Brexit planning
      http://archive.is/LNzej

    28. Dr Jim says:

      @Legerwood 10:48pm

      Further to your link I read the Paras are being trained in crowd control shields and all

    29. Terence callachan says:

      To stewartb….i agree wholeheartedly that the Scottish social security charter is good progress.
      I worked for DHSS, DWP, dept of employment, pension service , 35 yrs, respect and politeness to our people has to be foremost every person I met during that 35 yrs and I met a lot, would have preferred to be independent with their own earned income but life doesn’t work out that way for so many and usually despite what the British newspapers and politicians tell you , it is NOT their fault.
      Poverty leads to desperation and desperation never ends well.

    30. Terence callachan says:

      To wull2……. some on here say I’m a britnat troll…….. I say to everyone , vote YES to Scottish independence ?

    31. One_Scot says:

      To be fair he did say very seldom.

    32. Terence callachan says:

      One _Scot….haha …so he did,I hope you too vote YES to Scottish independence One_Scot

    33. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @10.36 pm

      Never had a Britnat comment on my health in a positive way before. Makes a change from the usual stuff. I’m in good health thank you very much.

      Some self help advice for you as a thank you. It may be a good idea if you just look yourself in the Mirror and say to yourself – ” Terry old boy you are a lying Britnat and you must accept Scotland will soon be free of the corrupt and toxic UK. Stop wasting your time on a lost cause. ”

      It’s the dirty fag end of the British Empire. All you Britnats might as well start trying to adjust.

    34. Ken500 says:

      BSE cost £Billions. People died.

      Mad Cow came from Alabama.

      Everyone is waiting for the Tories to get voted down and out. That’s the hold up now, it is just Thatcher all over again. She went over the EU. Ruining the economy. Deja vue. The next lot as completely useless as before. Cable did not even turn up to vote them down. They could have been voted down Sept 2017 Evel vote. The supposed opposition (not there) either did not vote or abstained.

    35. cynicalHighlander says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      12 January, 2019 at 9:07 pm

      No civil war here in Stirling – streets are quiet.

      Wow the action up here is mayhem as the ground troops battle it out and in the air it’s never
      ending as various tits battle it out for prime spot on the peanuts or fat balls until the dreaded woodpecker makes an appearance, then peace prevails.

    36. ben madigan says:

      @ Dr Jim who said:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:56 pm
      @Legerwood 10:48pm

      “Further to your link I read the Paras are being trained in crowd control shields and all”

      That went down well back in the days of

      Bloody Sunday
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/08/08/bishop-daly-rip-michael-and-bloody-sunday/

      and the Ballymurphy Massacre
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/the-ballymurphy-massacre/

      Maybe “Training” will make a difference this time?

    37. Petra says:

      Goodness gracious me! The site is chock-a-block with individuals running down Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP, Joanna Cherry, the National, etc, whilst on the other hand you never hear a dickybird from any of them about nasty Unionist politicians or the biased BritNat media ……. and they expect us to believe that they support Independence? Aye right.

      They, the BritNat supporters, are going into overdrive now. A clear sign that they’re running scared. A clear sign that the Union is over and out. Independence is looming for them and nothing, but nothing, will stop it. Wasting your time on here? Too bad, eh?

      In other words we know who you are. It’s as plain as a (Pinocchio sized) nose on a face. As Proud Cybernat would simply say: “We see you.”

    38. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@11.01pm

      But will YOU vote for Scottish independence and the SNP. It would be nice to hear a Britnat say they will vote for independence. But with your record of porky pies.

    39. potter says:

      @Petra
      Somethings afoot, and the Unionist are rattled, eyes on the prize.

    40. Gary45% says:

      SNPx2.
      Simples.
      Nothing Else.

    41. Gary45% says:

      Ken500@11.16
      “Everyone is waiting for the Tories to get voted down and out”
      I pray this happens, but the Red Tories are falling into the trap. May will walk a general election in England, because the Red Tories should be light years ahead of Mays shambolic party, where are they?(the worst government and opposition in UK history).
      The English will give May a stronger win if there is a GE, also “Brexit” because the media will never let Corbyn rule.(Scotland doesn’t even register with them).
      Indy2 can’t come quick enough.

    42. Famous15 says:

      Would a FOI establish what promotions the two complainers against Alex Salmond have gained in the last FIVE YEARS and whether in the previous five years AS hindered their promotion on purely competency grounds.

      I used to rejoice that there was no need for a habeous corpus law in Scots Law as all accused were treated with fairness and natural justice and speedy trials and awareness of the accusation were at the core of Scottish Justice system but now I hae ma doots.

      I do not blame NS but know that her decency in upholding the protection and rights of women was despoiled by the cunning of the UK Civil Service. Get me out of this rotten,corrupt Union please!

    43. geeo says:

      Callachan slavered this…

      “I think the Scottish social security charter is great but it won’t apply to 99% of people claiming benefits.

      It will only apply to those benefits administered by the Scottish parliament which at present is carers allowance and not much else”
      ……..

      For someone claiming to be ex DHSS/DWP you are pretty clueless.

      Scotsgov will take over the following…

      Disability Living Allowance

      Personal Independence Payments

      Attendance Allowance

      Carer’s Allowance

      Winter Fuel Allowance

      Cold Weather Payment

      Sure Start Maternity Grant

      Industrial Injuries Benefit

      Severe Disablement Allowance

      Funeral Payment

      It amounts to about 15% of all benefits, which is a tad more than your claimed 1%. (You really just cannot help but talk mince huh ?)

      Then there is the new way of dealing with claimants, with more dignity and respect than the uk gov system.

      Carers allowance has already gone up to the level of Jobseekers.

      You can bet the others will give those in need a much needed boost as well.

      There was a lengthy and detailed research/study into the details of the new Social Security Scotland.

      There were telephone interviews, experience panels, made up from users of the benefits system, focus group meetings, all over Scotland where experience
      panel members met to discuss all aspects of the new system with government ministers and civil servants involved in forming the service.

      And crucially, we were listened to at EVERY stage along the road.

      I was involved in the whole process, and am proud of that, as we helped shape a system which has fairness, compassion and dignity at its heart.

      What have you ever done, callachan, apart from smear, lie and offend ?

      Answer: nothing.

    44. Davie Oga says:

      In a pub in County Cavan. Sombre mood. Rumour doing the rounds that dissident republicans are rethinking their opposition to the GFA after witnessing the carnage of the SNP civil war over in Scotland. Ex member of the South Armagh brigade standing at the bar and talking about how he couldnt have coped if he was operating in the killing fields near Auchterarder.

    45. TJenny says:

      geeo – that’s what’s so good about WOS, we have the most informed readers who can dispute nonsense with knowledge.

    46. Hamish100 says:

      7 hrs to the Sunday National arrives. Its pro independence. Shouldnt everyone buy one?

    47. Shug says:

      Why jam I coming across people who have real hatred for salmon and sturgeon.
      The hatred of anything the Scottish government has done is astonishing and I am at a loss to think how to respond and understand why they think the way they do

    48. Cubby says:

      Geeo@12.27am

      Well well Callachan lying again is he. What a surprise. Terry old boy – please provide posts free of lies. If you cannot do this then you will be welcome at the Daily Mail/Express/Herald/Scotsman…… when lying is expected and mandatory. You will feel at home there along with other lying Britnats..

    49. geeo says:

      Indeed we do TJenny, indeed we do.

      The loony tune brigade serve their purpose as well, unwittingly, as people looking in can see the guff they post being destroyed on a regular basis.

      Much of this guff is what the BBC state propoganda channels and other media, punt out daily.

      When people realise the media output is bollocks, and this site and those using it, provide evidence that it is bollocks, they become either Yes minded, or open at least to the idea.

      I do not believe there are many people going from Yes to No, there may be some unhappy about an indy Scotland in the EU, but i am firmly of the opinion those people will STILL vote Yes, as that is their primary objective.

      After all, you can hardly claim to be a supporter of Scottish Independence, if you vote No to indy.

    50. Famous15 says:

      @Shug at 1245

      When you feel that hatred by Unionists you know that Independence is near.

      What do you do? Well I just smile and ask them gently why so many people are turning to Yes and invite them to follow . Or if you are not so brave dumbly ask in wonder why are the SNP so popular?

      Because they do a bloody good job on the day job but can multitask and still fight for Scottish independence.

    51. Petra says:

      Spot on Potter (11:46pm).

      You’ll have noticed too that chemist shops across the UK are now running out of Imodium.

      What on earth are they all going to do when Brexit really kicks in and they lose Scotland? Home remedies? Lots of water and a Brat bland diet for the lying brats, such as eating rice and bananas? Aw naw they’ll no be able to get them either. Brexit will put paid to that. Add to that a shortage of toilet rolls. Nothing else for it … water (but not Scottish) and docken leaves. In other words the future of wee, poor and stupid England (apologies to normal English folks) is not looking good. Smelly in fact.

    52. Dr Jim says:

      For two years I’ve been saying the UK doesn’t make toilet paper now the press have just discovered it

      85% of toilet paper is imported

      I told you once women found out there’d be no bog roll they’d vote YES to Independence

    53. Thepnr says:

      I’m thinking the Scotsman might have to get out it’s chequebook again after printing this tonight.

      “The fall-out has left Nicola Sturgeon fighting for her political life after damaging revelations came to light about a series of meetings with Salmond – three in person and two phone calls – to discuss the investigation while it was under way.”

      http://archive.fo/c69xQ

      Nicola Sturgeon did not meet Alex Salmond 5 times “to discuss the investigation while it was under way”.

      What kind of reporting is this? Yeah the lying Britnat kind.

    54. Thepnr says:

      Right here you are a senior member of your political party. You find out that there’s a potentially damaging investigation against you being undertaken by your political opponents.

      What’s the first thing you do?

      You warn your party leader of what is going on and make sure they are fully aware of it. That’s one any sensible person would do.

      Salmond does it and it’s some conspiracy? There’s no way on earth Nicola Sturgeon would take one side or the other for her to do that could result in both of them being brought down.

      Neither are fools and have played this absolutely right. Those that are deliriously happy right now about some fantasy SNP civil war are going to be mighty sheepish in the near future and wishing they might have said a bit less.

      The lot of them should resign as not they’re not worthy of a job, big mouth liars.

    55. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      Surely when NS walks away from this unscathed the DKs are gonna see her as not only squeaky clean but a master tactician as well and be more inclined to move towards a YES vote.

      Macwhirter of the Herald is claiming that it will not end well for both NS and AS. I think this is the eventual outcome that Westminster would like to see, so does he know more of the truth than the general public does? Or has he been fed some scurrilous half truths by the Tories/MI5/UK Civil Service to keep the pot boiling over?

      Whoever controls the timing of the unfolding events has the upper hand, but whoever is telling the truth will be vindicated in the long run.

      My gut tells me NS and AS are way to close to be having a go at each other at such a crucial stage in history. I have a suspicion that there is more dirty underhand shit still to come from the yoons.

    56. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      12 January, 2019 at 2:52 pm

      That’ll be because there is absolutely no need for it to be either questioned or tested.

      There is however a desperate and acute need to have it Internationally recognised so that Scotland has Legal Personality and can defend itself from colonial subjugation, such as Brexit itself, or merely being excluded from Brexit negotiations.

      Without such recognition, with Westminster content to overrule Scotland’s democracy and ignore Scotland’s parliament, Scotland’s IndyRef2 result would be in largely the same effective position as Catalonia, with its democracy and constitutional emancipation crushed by a “greater” sovereignty which boasts preeminent international recognition as Constitutionally sovereign. Madrid emasculates Catalonian democracy just as Westminster currently sees fit to emasculate Scotland.

      It is precisely because our Scottish Constitution IS so strong that our steadfast failure to use that potency to secure the appropriate recognition and Legal Personality for our Nation looks like reckless and indolent complacency.

    57. Meg merrilees says:

      It’s all falling into place.

      T May is defeated on Tuesday, Corbyn calls for GE, Tories think that they have sabotaged AS and NS and the way is wide open for (t)Ruthless to come out of maternity leave, clean up all the disgruntled SNP votes and become the next First Minister of Scotland – that’s if the post survives after the GE .

      If not, plan B:

      Fluffy becomes the Governor-General of North Britain, the bridge is built across to Belfast so that the OO can march across each weekend and rub our noses in the Union Flag.

      T May has saved her Precioussss Onion and the Tories live happily ever after.
      (Will (t)Ruthless come out of maternity leave early if there is a GE?)

      Well, fortunately, I think there is a different story up here.

      T May is defeated on Tuesday; GE may be called, Brexit extended – but I’ve read that the EU would only allow that to be until May as they want it done and dusted before the European Elections – SNP increase their presence at WM and declare Independence.

      All to play for and I guess the Police and Military will be on standby if the Far right think they are about to lose control.

      Anyone working in Agriculture, fishing, car manufacture, medicine, banking, travel, and countless other industries, who still supports Brexit must be MAD.

    58. Dr Jim says:

      If God came down and told Unionists the SNP weren’t bad and that actually they were the good guys, they’d say the SNP bribed God

      The people who know, do know, and the people who don’t know, don’t want to know

      Then you have the load of people who just don’t care and you can’t make them

      So Alex Salmond is doing exactly the right thing by getting these people into court and getting the truth ripped out of them, then maybe the people who don’t care might sit up and pay attention

      That’s *IF* the media even report it in the right way if or when he wins

      Remember we aren’t allowed to have a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation we’re stuck with the *British* version of the news, and for those who think it’s not biased do you believe Neil Olivers *British* versions of Scottish history or do you believe your own eyes

      As for rags like the Scotsman and the Herald well all of them really if it’s up to Mr Salmond, their time could be coming and I do hope it hurts

      Far from there being a civil war in the SNP I believe the only war going on is a strategic one between the UK civil service and the SNP, It’s all been timed too well to be a coincidence

    59. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      Yes @Dr Jim the timing is far too convenient to be a coincidence.

      The machinations going on behind the scenes will be almost impossible to workout with all the fake news thrown around to obfuscate the whole affair.

      But I reckon once Scotland is independent episodes like these will be re-visited and used to future proof Scotland’s constitutional framework.

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      With any luck NS and AS recorded their conversations and will “reluctantly” release the recordings. But NS should probably refer herself first.

    61. RE the situation just now with AS and NS – beats me how Nicola can be accused of colluding with and conspiring against AS simultaneously.

      As I’ve said before – it is non-event in the English newspapers so that suggests a fix-up to me.

      I don’t doubt that it is a tricky situation to find oneself in but Nicola is always very careful and I cannot imagine that she, or Alex, would have been careless over this especially.

      Seems that we can surmise all we want but we don’t know the facts and we cannot trust the MSM to deliver the truth. They specialise in innuendo and, it would seem, outright libel.

      In the Alasdair Carmichael case Nicola had the integrity of the French ambassador to verify her account of the story. Now it’s her word against massive speculation.

    62. Dr Jim says:

      Many people are wondering why Nicola Sturgeon is being as they see it loyal to the head of the civil service, well let me just pose this for a second to see what folks think

      What if Nicola Sturgeon knows that the civil service were trying to fit up AS but as First Minister she had no direct involvement so had to put her trust and faith in the UKs appointee for the post then that appointee is found guilty as hell in the courts exposed as a UK agent employed to disrupt the SNP Scottish government

      Oh the outrage cries the FM I’ve been lied to and let down on all sides by the UK government who attempted to thwart the progress of Scotland’s governance, and by extention the media has no choice but to display some faux outrage too or be seen as what they are, corrupt to the core

      Just a thought, or maybe I’ve just seen a lot of spy movies

      We shall see

    63. Just been reading that Tasmina is due in court next week to hear her case. Surely a coincidence that would have had AS in one court and Tasmina in a neighbouring court.

      Can imagine the headlines already.

      The good news is that a fortunate outcome for her may allow her to stand at the next GE – whenever that maybe.

      Also, seems that Alex believes that the entire case was dismissed, hence the costs awarded to him – but a Scottish gov spokesperson has said that none of the rest of his case was dismissed therefore the charges are ‘robust’

      Anybody know which is correct?

    64. Hamish100 says:

      The unionists detest AS and NS. Monstering them is their attack on independence. Remember Carmichael in 2014

    65. Cageybee says:

      geeo says:
      13 January, 2019 at 12:27 am
      …………

      There was a lengthy and detailed research/study into the details of the new Social Security Scotland.

      There were telephone interviews, experience panels, made up from users of the benefits system, focus group meetings, all over Scotland where experience
      panel members met to discuss all aspects of the new system with government ministers and civil servants involved in forming the service.

      And crucially, we were listened to at EVERY stage along the road.

      I was involved in the whole process, and am proud of that, as we helped shape a system which has fairness, compassion and dignity at its heart.

      I was also involved in the experience panels for this and was talking to a retired political correspondent that this was the first instance he cold recall either at Westminster or here where those impacted by legislation were consulted and listened to about legislation before it was enacted. Groundbreaking and altruistic this approach by the Scottish Government to this situation really sticks in the caw of the britnat naysayers who see people like us as a drain on society.
      hoping to meet up with some others in Glasgow on the 24th.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees / @Dr Jim
      Considering the controversy over the previous PS, it would be strange if the SNP weren’t aware of all risks with this. Quickly from the DT in 2011 By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor:

      Scotland’s three opposition party leaders are to lodge complaints with the head of the civil service over what they say is politically partisan behaviour by Alex Salmond’s most senior mandarin.

      (Scotland’s opposition parties leaders have written to Sir Gus O’Donnell asking him to investigate Sir Peter Housden’s statements on Holyrood’s powers)

      so I think we need to just wait and see what’s happening.

      Meanwhile the opposition and the MSM are going flat out, hell for leather and over the top. It would be an awfy shame if they ran full tilt into barbed wire.

      Medic!

    67. Dr Jim says:

      AS lawyer says the civile service are *misleading* in their statements as their case fell at the first hurdle the civil service withdrew the rest of their case so the case was dismissed and costs awarded to AS so not as the civil service suggest AS case dismissed, the civil service case against AS was dismissed

      The fact that the press and civil service are stooping to this is like getting out a shovel and digging a bigger hole for themselves to have to climb out of later

    68. Dr Jim says:

      Anyway it’s time for Baw Baws

      Nite chums!

    69. yesindyref2 says:

      The media are confused, do they go against Salmond as they have been for ages even over his TV show, or do they go against Sturgeon? Or even go against the Scottish Government, whatever that is? You can see it below the line as well 🙂

      Their brains are farting.

    70. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 2.01
      Aye Alex,and what the Media are hoping no one thinks through is the mirror of what you just said….
      The only Alternative!
      Alex Doesn’t tell Nicola a thing, resulting in a continuation of their regular communications as friend’s.
      Mibbi even socialising together??
      That’s what would/could have been portrayed as even more suspicious!

      I personally would have thought a good bit less of Alex Salmond, if he hadn’t thought enough of Nicola, to tell her what was going on and had left her in the dark!
      How would we feel right now if Nicola had said “I’m just finding out about all this”?
      Of course he had to bring her up to speed….. And that means meetings and phone calls..Duh…

      Compare and contrast with Mays administration…They don’t communicate at all.
      They assure each other of support and then turn round and resign.

      Alex told Nicola the state of play,and recused himself!
      Nicola told us/everyone that she knew all about it, and, would put her role as First Minister above the relationship with Alex.
      I cannot see any issues with that!
      I would expect no less,regardless of my political persuasion.
      Governments should always behave with integrity,as Governments.
      I’m no in the least bit interested in a “pending” issue. That’s no news… Report to me the outcome,and how it was reached ” then ” I’ll think it news.
      Everything else is just noise!!

    71. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 4.26
      Why … it’s all as if,they knew the best way to handle the British Nationalist Media?
      Wonder if they have had a wee bit o’ experience there??
      Who can tell???

    72. Liz g says:

      All most ..duh..

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      It’s interesting to see this quote from Keith Brown in The National: “As Barack Obama said: “When they go low, we go high.”

      So the question is, considering there’s been months of notice of all this – was Sturgeon caught on the hop, or is she taking them all to the cleaners?

      What’s even funnier is this – I genuinely don’t know!

    74. Kangaroo says:

      Good to see some of you still up at this time.

      GLOBAL FINANCIAL RESET COMING.

      Mexico Border Wall a diversion. Shutdown will continue until after DAVOS Jan22 -25. RESET to a GOLD Standard to be announced.
      Courtesy of Anonymous.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0wY4Qa_AdDE

    75. yesindyref2 says:

      Gold standard? Ouch!

    76. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 5.37
      Well… If I had to take a guess???
      Since Nicola has known about all of this well before the story broke!!
      You could claim a lot of things,but, being on the backfoot ain’t one!!
      She hasn’t been caught out by it,I’d say.. But then again,, what do I know

    77. Liz g says:

      Kangaroo @ 5.44
      Does that mean Gordon Brown ( the seller of all the gold ) won’t be the wise elder statesmen that we should all listen to anymore??
      Oh dear!
      What a pity!
      Is there anybody left to speak for the Union, anymore?

    78. Ken500 says:

      Westminster/M15 a disgrace. The British State agents out to get Alex Salmond, Nicola, the SNP and Independence.

      Not going very well for them or the Unionists. The Courts are having to step in now and put the UK Gov in the Dock. The Courts are having to decide on Westminster unionist criminality.

      When the procedures are over Evans and the Cop will be retired. Off with massive pension funds and titles for failure. For destroy the Scottish/UK/world economy.

      The Tories will bring down their own Gov before Labour does. It is the Unionist way. Total failure once again.

      Go get them Alex. The unionist enablers.

      Clark the Salmond slayer in May’s pocket for funds and favours. Wasting public money every day. Ruining the NE economy. The unionist council ruining the City, illegally, . Most of them should be out in jail. Sanctionig and starving people. Killing off their own supporters the elderly.

      Support for the SNP and Independence will rise. To get over the line. Get away from the complete shambles and mess. Help the world to progress.

    79. Kangaroo says:

      Liz g
      Gordon brook was never a wise anything. He was/is part of the “New World Order” or Deep State as it is refered to in the USA.

      I have been expecting a RESET for some years as the USinc is technically bankrupt.
      DJT was brought in as a distraction whilst the problems were sorted out.

      Have a look at the previous Anonymous videos for last week and you will get a better handle on things. My research, and I have been keeping up with this for several years, suggests that everything Anonymous is stating is TRUE. Not conspiracy.

    80. Ken500 says:

      The real ‘story’. The Westminster Tory/unioniss in crisis. They are going into overdrive. Spinning out of control. Down and down they go. Trying to trash the economy. What a bunch of complete imbeciles. The could not make a bigger shambles. What a complete and utter mess. Sanctionig and starving people. Killing off their own supporters, the elderly. Attacking the vulnerable. Attacking women and chikdren. Acting illegally. At the point if collapse. So much for taking back powers. They are at the point of losing power. On the point of total collapse. If not now when.

      Scotland just another Tory diversion. Trying to get out if it.

    81. Kangaroo says:

      Liz g
      Gordon Browns “New World Order” speech

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv5cqh26CC0

      BEWARE.

      It is NOT what he says it is. A carefully crafted speech to lull us into a false sense of security.

    82. Ken500 says:

      Russia are putting their money reserves into other currencies than the US dollar. The Yuan has been accepted as a universal currency exchange, internationally. For the first time. They hold US debt. If there are not drastic changes in the US it is going over the precipice. Trump is trying to come back from the brink.

      The US politicans want the world to sink into oblivion. They have been at it for sixty years and before. Evil warmongering psycho bastards. $611Billion spend a year in the military. Blowing the world to bits. Followed by the unionists psychopaths. Getting their comuppance now. Just waiting for the collapse. Another fine mess they have got into. Zealots on repeat. They repeat the same behaviour hoping the outcome will change every time. Some people never learn. They have been at it since 1928 and before.

    83. Ken500 says:

      Brown can’t count or read a balance sheet. An absolute failure. Financed illegal wars off the books. What a complete and utter failure. The cheek of him lecturing others is farcical. Millions of people worldwide marched against the illegal Iraqi War. Brown and Blair still went along with it. Habitual liars. Crashed the world banking system. Both now multimillionaires on other people’s misery. Most of them should be in jail.

      Brown took all of Scotland’s resources, secretly and illegally and used it to fund London S/E. Iraq, Lockerbie, Dunblane kept secret for 100 years. What have they got to hide? Still hidden under the Official Secrets Act. Westminster criminality, secrecy and lies. The McCrone report hidden for years. Scotland’s resources taken and wasted. Trident catasophere 30 mins from Glasgow. Nuclear piled up in Scotland illegally. No one needs a history lesson from Brown. They had to live it under Labour total ignorant, illegal incompetence. Still going on.

      Three day weeks, candles, rubbish piled in the streets. The dead not getting buried. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The state of it. Labour/unionists. £Billions wasted. Only outdone by the Libdem /Tory unionists liars. Lying embezzlers and illegal collusion. The absolute complete shambles. What a mess. £Trns of debt the most unequal place in the world. No one is happy. Sanctioning and starving people. Killing people. They have no shame.

    84. Kangaroo says:

      This video gives a bit more background on the RESET

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2VRcAt1hNmA

      Implicates the Royals and Rothschilds too.

      Yoons going down folks.

    85. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says:13 January, 2019 at 2:21 am:

      ” … Internationally recognised so that Scotland has Legal Personality … “

      Gobbledegook, Breeks. There is, first of all, no such thing as, “Legal Personality”, you just invented that entirely nebulous concept. A nation, country or state either has or has not got legal jurisdiction. Scotland is internationally recognised as having legal jurisdiction.

      This was undoubtedly internationally proven when both the United Kingdom Government and the Government of the mighty USA attempted to claim legal jurisdiction over the prosecution of the person accused of planting a bomb on a USA owned aircraft that exploded over the Scottish town of Lockerbie.

      After much legal attempts to bully the Scottish legal system the case was carried out under internationally recognised Scots Jurisdiction – even if it was in a foreign country the area of the court was declared to be, temporarily, Scottish territory.

      Furthermore the International Law of the Sea recognises that both the 12 mile limit and the 200 mile continental shelf bordering Scotland fall under Scottish Legal jurisdiction.

      There is absolutely no international doubt that Scots law is independent and separate of English law and there is no such thing as a United Kingdom Rule of Law. Westminster Governs by the English Rule of Law and adds wee bits on the end of Westminster laws to accommodate any differences between English and Scots law.

      ” … Without such recognition, with Westminster content to overrule Scotland’s democracy and ignore Scotland’s parliament, Scotland’s IndyRef2 result would be in largely the same effective position as Catalonia … “

      Absolute balderdash! As already proven there is absolutely no comparison between the Catalonian and Scottish situations. What’s more the authority that says so is none other than the Government of Spain.

      The only similarity is that both Scotland and Catalonia seek to become independent from a larger government but, in the Catalan case, Catalonia does not have the legally provable status of having a well documented International Treaty of Union that proves beyond doubt that they are a fully equally sovereign partner in a united kingdom.

      A government that factually calls itself, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”. It does not call itself, “The United Country of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”. This for the very simple reason that it is not a unified country and in actual fact is not even being run as a unified country. It is being run as the country of England that is ruling over three subjugated dominion countries it claims to have devolved English Powers to.

      You have pushed this claptrap on Wings for a very long time and had it absolutely demolished on many occasions. Now why would you still be here pushing such proven to be wrong mantras down people’s throats instead of telling them the truth and thus encouraging them to seek justice?

    86. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cyber-Corroboree says: 13 January, 2019 at 3:14 am:

      ” … I reckon once Scotland is independent episodes like these will be re-visited and used to future proof Scotland’s constitutional framework.”

      Scotland’s constitutional framework was well laid down and recognised by the then international authority of Christendom – The Holy Roman See.

      That written constitution is, “The Declaration of Arbroath”, which is the basis of the, still legally independent, modern, Scottish Rule of Law.

      The United Kingdom, which incidentally claims to NOT have a written constitution, does indeed have a Written Constitution but chooses to illegally ignore it exists and has never actually governed the United Kingdom under that Written Constitution. Which, of course, may be the reason why they choose to deny such a written constitution has ever existed.

      The written document that, “constituted”, the United Kingdom is, of course, the 1706/7 Treaty of Union. The United Kingdom has never actually been governed under the terms of that Treaty of Union.

      The Treaty of Union says that the United Kingdom is a two partner kingdom of two equally sovereign kingdoms.

      The, so called, current united kingdom is run as the country of England handing down, (devolving), the sovereign powers of the legally sovereign Queen of The Kingdom of England to three subservient dominion countries and not as a two equally sovereign kingdom partnership.

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      Ooops! Sorry about my mistaken over-bolding in my last comment but I’m sure most Wingers will still get the meaning correct.

    88. Cyber-corroboree says:

      As I said when Scotland finally gains independence the constitution will need to be upgraded and modernised for the 21st Century. One would expect part of that re-writing will be to future proof the bill with as much foresight as is possible. Scurrilous episodes such as AS is experiencing now is a case in point.

      Once Scotland gains her independence the UK written constitution will be meaningless and frankly quite useless to Scotland.

    89. ScottieDog says:

      @kangaroo
      ‘New world order’.
      Now where have I heard that before?

      Ah yes, the Bush, Cheney axis in the LEAD UP to 9/11.

    90. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers said:

      “As already proven there is absolutely no comparison between the Catalonian and Scottish situations”. No yet.

      If there’s another Indyref with a vague question approved by the UK Govt Establishment’s Electoral Commission, such as: “Should Scotland be an independent country? It will be another blank cheque for the UK State.

      We’d see another rigged indyref campaign where the SNP are going to have to rely on the BBC and Newsquest to get their case across, when both organisation have reportedly been involved with the UK Govt’s Integrity Initiative. Then the whole UK state propaganda and security services go into top gear for Project Fear 2.

      If no wins again, and they are still the favourites to win, then we can expect Scotland to be put in a Catalonia situation. Following on from cutting the number of Scots MPs and making them second-class MPs, I expect the UK state will use another blank cheque of unlimited power to amend the constitution making the UK officially a unitary state just like Spain, effectively abolishing Scotland the sovereign Kingdom and replacing it with Scotland the semi-devolved, semi-federal region. In other words a permanent colony in law.

    91. Ken500 says:

      The absolute height of hypocrisy. Absolutely unbelievable. Daniel Hannan is complaining about ‘quangorats’. Daniel Hannan is being investigated for embezzling and misappropriating £Millions of EU monies and having to pay it back. The absolute cheek of it. Most of them should be in jail.

    92. Capella says:

      Its 9 am and the BBC still hasn’t got the Scottish front pages up. British ones have been up for hours.

      So instead, there’s a good RT OpEd piece written by Ken Livingston on the BREXIT involvement of the English far right lead by Tommy Robinson, funded by American right wing think tanks.

      This amplifies the theme of the Channel 4 film “Brexit: An Uncivil War” which you can see on the C4 catch up player (no licence required)

      https://on.rt.com/9lmr

      Are we really going to be dragged out of the EU by the EDL and foreign think tanks bankrolled by billionaire oligarchs?

    93. Golfnut says:

      @Robert Peffers.

      Bang on RP.

      Basically both Kingdoms enshrined within the Treaty of Union the Constitutional law of the two signatories, England and Scotland. Westminster has spent the last 300 years trying to convince Scots that reality doesn’t exist. A prime example of this is the recent inclusion of the Henry the VIII clause in the Withdrawal Bill, illegally applied to Scotland. It therefore cannot be denied that the 1704 Act of Security, basically the right of the Scots, to replace the Monarch under the Claim of Right 1698 and the Declaration of Arbroath 1320 isn’t relevant today. Anybody who thinks a referendum for dissolution of the Union can be legally ignored by Westminster is frankly not paying attention.

    94. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cyber-corroboree says: 13 January, 2019 at 8:34 am:

      ” …
      Once Scotland gains her independence the UK written constitution will be meaningless and frankly quite useless to Scotland.”

      But, Cyber-corroboree, The Westminster Establishment claims to not have a written constitution. In fact the United Kingdom has a written constitution for it was constituted by the 1706/7 Treaty of Union. That is its written constitution. i.e. it was constituted by the Treaty of Union.

      The Westminster Establishment also claims that The Kingdom of Scotland will be, “leaving the United Kingdom”, but, as the United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of kingdoms neither of the two kingdoms can leave the United Kingdom intact. If one partner in a bipartite union leaves the union is ended.

      There cannot be an rUK – there is no remainder united Kingdom as the two partners will have just disunited and the Status Quo Ante is a return to two independent kingdoms. The Kingdom of England in 1706/7 comprised three countries and the Status Quo Ante of the Kingdom of England will be a three country Kingdom not a three kingdom partnership. There are only the signatures and royal seals of two kingdoms on the treaty of union.

      As to Scotland – Scotland ceased to be officially under the rule of Law of Divine Right of Kings in 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath and that is a written constitution. (The Declaration was written in French). This declaration not only made Scotland an internationally recognised independent kingdom but stated that the monarchy was not sovereign, (a.k.a. did not have the Divine Right of Kings).

      Not until 1688 were the laws of the Kingdom of England changed but the change did not remove the Divine Right of Kings from the English Monarchy. Instead it claimed that sovereignty did not actually rest with the monarchy but with the kingdom and that is shown when a English Monarch dies – The proclamation is, “The King/Queen is dead – long live the King/Queen”. This signifies that the legal sovereignty has passed to the new monarch but under English law a monarch cannot give away sovereignty because it rest with kingdom and not the monarch. So a monarch can only abdicate the crown/sovereignty to the next in line and must legally delegate their legal sovereignty to the Parliament of England.

      On 30 April 1707 the English Parliament put itself into permanent recess and there has been no Parliament of the Kingdom of England since then. On 1 May 1707 what opened at Westminster was the Parliament of the United Kingdom – not the continued Kingdom of England.

      When The Kingdom of Scotland ends the United Kingdom then it also ends the United Kingdom Parliament and thus the legally sovereignty in the Kingdom of England reverts to the Queen of England as there is no, elected as such, Parliament of England.

      However, under English law the monarch must legally delegate sovereignty to the Parliament of England and, if you know your parliamentary history, you will be aware that the Queen, (On the advice of Her Majesty’s Privy Council), will summons Her Majesty’s Choice of Her Majesty’s Prime Minister, (Yes that is the actual designation of the Prime Minister), to her presence and command that person to form Her Majesty’s Government of Her Majesty’s Kingdom of England,

      So, until there is an election to a Parliament of the Kingdom of England there are no elected members of the parliament of the Kingdom of England to sit in the Westminster Parliament of the Kingdom of England.

    95. Hamish100 says:

      Alan Douglas ex bbc, tory, Katy Grant always a tory are todays paper reviewers for BBC Radio .

      Explain the Bias? (possible question for students of politics)

      Sunday National pro independence paper mentioned in passing. Mail on Sunday, Telegraph,Sunday Times, Sunday Post, Sunday Mail, Scotland on Sunday, Sunday Express, Sunday Mirror, Sun etcetera are all Unionist.

      All those trollers attacking the National but who do not attack the Sunday Mail or Record can only be pro brexit Labour.

    96. Nana says:

      http://www.barrheadboy.com/know-your-foe/

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/01/12/new-evidence-that-scotland-is-less-anti-semitic-than-non-scottish-parts-of-uk/

      It was announced today that prison sentences under six months could be scrapped across England & Wales. On Tuesday the 8th of January, @LesleyRiddoch brought up Scotland’s presumption against short prison sentences with UK Prisons Minister Rory Stewart on Politics Live
      https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1084173198806171648

      https://joansjigsaw.wordpress.com/2019/01/12/a-government-held-to-ransom-by-fear/

    97. Nana says:

      Would the EU welcome the UK back into the fold, or does it intend to punish the UK? What would be the effect of the far right surge in the EU. A discussion with Charles Grant, Mary Honeyball MEP, Anatole Kaletsky and Alyn Smith MEP. Chaired by Laura Shields
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5zL5jCl0eM&feature=youtu.be

      “Speaking in the Commons last week, Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable said he had been told by civil servants of contingency plans to slaughter a third of all British sheep in the event of no deal”
      https://twitter.com/keepScotBrand/status/1084225949774868480

      MoD sends planners to ministries over post-Brexit border fears
      http://archive.is/LNzej

      Brexit: John Bruton says Britain has decided to ‘tear up’ GFA with Brexit
      http://archive.vn/TIDBN

    98. Nana says:

      Sinn Fein’s refusal to take their seats in Westminster and voice their concerns over Brexit is a “tragedy”, a former Irish prime minister has said.
      http://archive.vn/H3pdZ

      https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/andrew-adonis-and-tom-brake-respond-to-chris-graylings-brexit-warning-1-5849561

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/01/09/breached-or-protected-the-principle-of-consent-in-northern-ireland-and-the-uk-governments-brexit-proposals/

      Huge info dump about Government plan for stockpiling medicines just came out, in answer to a Written Question. Contracts cover “53,000 pallets of ambient storage, 5,000 pallets of refrigerated storage and 850 pallets of controlled drug storage.”
      https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1084148979380744192

    99. Craig Murray says:

      Dr Jim at 4.03am

      This is very important. Leslie Evans’ statement after the judgement also stated that Alex Salmond had only won on one point, and all his other points were dismissed. This was a patent lie. Once the government conceded and settled, there was no judgement on the other points.

      I thought this was just bluster and I am astonished that the civil service is keeping it up and claiming they don’t have to pay Alex’ costs. This shows they conceded in such a panic they did not understand what they were doing, and their lawyers did not explain it to them. The reason they conceded in such haste was to keep the evidence of their wrongdoing secret and avoid questioning under oath, particularly on who leaked to Clegg at the record.

      But if they now try to renege on paying costs, the case is going to open up again. Which actually would be a good thing. Similarly when Alex sues them for damages; he will be able to force them into the witness box then; all he has to do is refuse to settle. Expect them to beg him to accept huge amounts of taxpayers’ money out of court.

    100. Dorothy Devine says:

      OI but did the Queen exhort the populace to ,’think very carefully” prior to the EU referendum? Did I miss it ? Was it faithfully reported in the Telegraph by the guy with the beard?

    101. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      13 January, 2019 at 7:50 am
      @Breeks says:13 January, 2019 at 2:21 am:

      ” … Internationally recognised so that Scotland has Legal Personality … “

      Gobbledegook, Breeks. There is, first of all, no such thing as, “Legal Personality”, you just invented that entirely nebulous concept.

      I wish you’d never said that Robert. Now I will have to review everything you have ever written just in case it’s all been horseshit you’ve just made up on the spot.

      https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-legal-personality.htm

      Not only does Legal Personality properly exist, not having recognised personality is the definitive reason Scotland was excluded from Brexit negotiations. Neither Westminster nor Europe recognised Scotland as an interlocutor because Scotland was without Legal Personality.

      Scotland HAD and exercised Legal Personality in seeking a judgement from the ECJ over the revocation of Article when it brought the case under Scots Law. The UK’s Supreme Court sought to dispute the case being brought, but the ECJ chose to recognise the Legal Personality of Scots Law and reject the Supreme Courts capacity to interfere.

      Once the merits of the case were put before the ECJ, the result was a common sense victory for simple straightforward truth, but a potent affirmation of truth that was binding upon all.

      Scotland has the precedence, the road map freshly established by this innocuous Constitutional Test Case over Article 50, that Scotland could, and should, pursue a similar case under the same Scots Law, to be recognised by the same ECJ, to deliberate on the same competencies in law, and conclude that Scot’s Law, and Scot’s Law’s interpretation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is both extant and ascendant over Westminster Parliamentary Sovereignty.

      The ECJ will then be required to arbitrate on the binary issue of whether Scotland is or is not a sovereign entity which is not currently recognised BUT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE.

      The Union itself could have it’s fallacies and perfidious unconstitutional misadventures stripped bare for all to see, but for the sake of public decency we do not need the spectacle. We can be subtle, we can be innocuous, and simply inquire from the ECJ whether it’s recent adjudication that Article 50 could be revoked by sovereign prerogative, might allow Scotland to be distinct, and revoke Article 50 unilaterally.

      The Scottish Government can then take as long as it likes to win its precious referendum, because Scotland will have a Constitutional Backstop, like Ireland, that COMPELLS Westminster to respect international law, and respect Scotland has a default mandate to remain in the EU, but critically, Westminster has no Constitutional mandate to remove us.

      The SNP has been paralysed by Europe because all they see is a love triangle between Unionism, and Independence support that is divided between those for and anti Europe. Rather than amplify the divide between pro and anti Europe support and jeopardise the delicate and precarious percentage backing Indy, the SNP has tried to be clever and profit from the calamity of Brexit by blaming it all on Unionist BritNat parties, and thereby negotiating Brexit without ever testing the issue of anti-European Yes voters who cannot have both. That is why Nicola Sturgeon abdicated all initiative more than two years ago, handing the responsibility for Brexit to Theresa May and Westminster.

      The SNP strategy is a study in political compromise and intrigue which seeks to steer a finally balanced alliance of YES voters through the Brexit problem without ever exposing that YES resolve to haemorrhaging support through the binary choice of YES voters being pro or anti Europe. That’s very sensible, especially if you are afraid of how the BritNat Press hyenas will amplify any dip in YES support.

      We ALL see that. But unfortunately, “all of us” seeing that includes the UK Establishment, and Westminster has played Holyrood like a violin. It has neutered and contained the possibility of Scotland’s Constitutional rebellion over Brexit by keeping alive and cogent the possibility that division over Europe will also divide a YES vote, leaving the SNP hamstrung with an existential dilemma on its hands. Scotland has been boxed in and “contained” from the beginning. That is why the SNP does “nothing”, because it has allowed itself to be trapped, and Theresa May has simply run down the clock. The theoretical stand-off between pro and anti YES voters is the same paralysing conundrum now that it was in 2016 when the SNP stood back from the provocative and polarising issue of Sovereignty and elected to pursue an anodine soft Brexit instead.

      This “trap” is why it is imperative that Scotland finds a way to break itself free, drawing meaningful purchase and advantage from Brexit, but save ourselves from Brexit without polarising the YES vote in the process.

      The answer is staring us in the face. An reciprocally anodine, apolitical Constitutional Test Case to test the Constitutional subjugation we do have with the Constitutional Sovereignty we should have. No mandate required, no majority threatened, no seismic swings in public opinion. We seek a “librarian’s revolution” – a modest question whether Scotland can revoke Article 50 unilaterally. We secure absolute victory by our existing sovereign constitution, but ssshh! We merely affirm their absolute defeat with a whisper in Westminster’s lug.

      Or maybe we can play it your way Robert. Three cheers for Nicola. The smartest politician in Holyrood…. to the bitter end and eternal winter of Brexit.

      Aye. Maybe it isn’t Theresa May who needs a Constitutional reminder whispered in her lug.

      75 days.

    102. HandandShrimp says:

      Had a quick look at the headlines. I see that it is just the two arch unionist papers SoS and Sunday Mail that are running with the Salmond story on the front page. They did invest the most in this particular story and are presumably the most bitter at its collapse.

      All the rest are focussed on High Noon Brexit or human interest stories. The week of the Brexit vote is the big story in any rational world.

    103. jezza says:

      Again a Scottish point of view on Brexit is thin on the ground on the political tv programmes this morning.

      John Mann English labour MP tells Sky News Sofia Ridge that the “south” voted to Remain and the “north” voted to Leave.

      Kinda sums up the English mentality, where Scotland just doesn’t enter into their thinking.

    104. Ken500 says:

      Brexit is collapsing around the unionists feet. What on earth? More unionist propaganda from the usual suspects. Trying to maliciously attack the Scottish Gov. The British State agents, and provocateurs. Being revealed.

      An absolute shambles. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous.

      Unionists imploding over Brexit. Cloaks and daggers. The usual outcome.

    105. Mike says:

      @Hamish100

      None of the pro unionist papers are pretending to be pro indy so it would be stupid to attack them on the grounds that they are.

      Christ man get a grip or stop posting on issues you clearly don’t understand.

    106. Golfnut says:

      @ Breeks.

      Legal personality was confirmed, as if needed to be, by the Lockerbie trial. Both Westminster and the USA vigorously contested under which legal jurisdiction the bomber should be tried. They both lost. Scots law and Scots territorial boundaries were confirmed in modern International law.

    107. Ken500 says:

      Journos ‘wittering on as usual’. Totallly ignorant incompetents.

      They could easily get back the £1/2Million and more suing the malicious civil servant and the Press, which is highly likely to happen. That will teach them to stop illegally interfering in the Scottish Gov. Hit them in the pocket. That will shut them up.

      The LinDems who facilitated the mess and did not even turn Up to vote. Appalling. Now complaining. Come off the fence? Is that a joke. Lazy incompetents. Clegg and Cameron. Now gone but left the mess behind.

      They could have taken May down in Sept 2017. Evel vote. They did not even bother. Not turning up to vote or abstaining.

    108. orri says:

      I suspect that the UK constitution may have been amended to prevent Scotland, or any other constituent part, being in the same situation as Berwick was after declaring war against Russia and then being left out of the peace treaty. Or so the story goes.

      I also suspect said resolution may have illegally annexed it and changed what may be seen as an enclave into full possession. Kind of like the USA claiming ownership of Faslane. Or possibly the UK of Gibraltar beyond the limits of the treaty ceding it as a naval outpost.

      One problem with simply revoking the Treaty of Union is you’d have to make it clear that the intent is that Scotland resume its pre treaty status and revoke our Act of Union.

      Otherwise it might simply be claimed as a tidying up of defunct business of historical interest only.

      So the question in indyref2 becomes,

      “Scotland should become an independent nation again and withdraw from the 1707 Act of Union with the Kingdom of England.”

      Or,

      “The Treaty of Union is hereby ended by the sovereign people of the Kingdom of Scotland”

    109. Ken500 says:

      Scots Law was maliciously used by Blair Labour/unionists. Against Ibternational Law. They broke International Law with impunity. To convict an innocent man before Devolution, Blair established the ‘London’ supreme Court trying to take away people in Scotland’s right as EU citizens, By trying to block appeal to the ECHR. Blair/Labour the murdering liar usurped Scottish Law illegally. For malicious purpose. Most of them should be in jail.

    110. orri says:

      Meant to say, no Scotland can’t revoke A50 by itself. And unionists might claim that, nonsensical or not, Scotland can’t revoke the Treaty of Union.

    111. Ken500 says:

      The South and North of Britain voted to Remain. The middle lands voted to Leave.

    112. Breeks says:


      Golfnut says:
      13 January, 2019 at 10:17 am
      @ Breeks.

      Legal personality was confirmed, as if needed to be, by the Lockerbie trial. Both Westminster and the USA vigorously contested under which legal jurisdiction the bomber should be tried. They both lost. Scots law and Scots territorial boundaries were confirmed in modern International law.

      Yes, but until we have the default perception of Sovereign recognition, that is internationally recognised Constitutional Independence, then we will continually need to fight for Legal Personality over and over again whenever the frequent need arises. Every case is a battle, not the war.

      We were recognised over Lockerbie, we were recognised over Article 50 Revocation…. If we balk at going for the big one, full Sovereignty, we will need to make our way in the world with Case by Case Legal Personality, which we should theoretically win time and again, or demand a stewards enquiry.

      For the record, I don’t advocate this as our BEST winning strategy for popular support amongst floating voters, but frankly I feel embattled, battle weary and in full “fighting retreat” mode, trying very hard not to forfeit Constitutional failsafes that we already have.

    113. Nana says:

      Join Corri Wilson and guests Martin Docherty-Hughes, MP for West Dumbartonshire and Ellen Hofer from European Citizens for an Independent Scotland fo in-depth discussion and analysis of the big stories in the news.
      https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/full-scottish-13-01-2019/

      Lesley Riddoch podcast
      We make our first appearance of 2019 and it’s our longest edition ever. I leave it you to decide if this is a good thing….
      Lesley spent the last week in London and we begin by looking at her appearance on the BBC’s Politics Live. I’m giving no secrets away by revealing in advance that she didn’t enjoy it.

      http://rqs.libsyn.com/common-cause-and-conventions

      Ferret or Weasel
      https://twitter.com/FerretScot/status/1083777698546307072

      That’s the last folks

    114. Abulhaq says:

      Whether the British state gets out or stays in Scotland seems as politically rudderless as England.
      All we have is the occasional cheep cheep from Sturgeon but no song worth paying attention to.
      Sillars is right, the personal concentration of power in the SNP is smothering initiative. Mediocrity is a debilitating contagion in contemporary British politics which the Brexit process has vividly exposed to view. We must do better. Our future, literally, depends on it.
      We know ‘what’ we want, it is the ‘how’ which requires closer scrutiny.

    115. Ken500 says:

      Iain wittering on as usual. That usual nonsense. The fence is not the most comfortable position. Plank,

      Corbyn is inbelievable misinformed. Total chaos.

    116. Ken500 says:

      People in Scotland have a vote. They can vote for what they want.

      The unionists (Evans) maliciously changed the Scottish voting system. To give unionists unfair advantage.

    117. Jomry says:

      Breeks,
      I think that once again you make a very articulate and cogent argument for a line of action that would reinforce international recognition of Scotland’s existence as a legal entity. I cannot see any downside to this as an action in parallel to all the other activities being undertaken to move us towards independence.

      Robert Peffers continues to argue that Scotland’s sovereignty is clear to all and does not require further external validation. The very setting up of the Supreme Court is an attempt to subjugate Scots law and contain it within a U.K. framework. This is a real threat to Scotland’s legal personality which needs to be vigorously defended wherever the opportunity arises – and especially in matters so central to our future.

      It may be that Robert Peffers, as a staunch defender of SNP, is reacting more to your observations that the SNP has been dilatory in this regard. At any rate, he is not engaging at all with the substance of your proposals – which I, for one, applaud.

    118. Proud Cybernat says:

      According to Sunday Mail headline ‘Salmond has his scalp’ as Leslie Evans set to step down for incompetence.

      Ho-hum….

    119. Ken500 says:

      Another one down, another one gone, another one hits the dust?

      Closer and closer

    120. Ghillie says:

      I am so proud of Michael Russell.

      Scotland’s Constitutional Relations Secretary, Mike Russell, has written to ALL UK MPs explaining with complete clarity that four decisions need to be made:

      He urges ALL MPs to reject a No Deal,

      To vote against T.May’s bad Deal,

      To seek to have Article 50 extended to prevent the UK crashing out of the EU at the end of March,

      And for ALL MPs to then work together to support a new referendum on the UK’s EU membership.

      I expect for many House of Commons’ MPs this is the first time a clear and understandable plan of action on the whole Brexit clusterburoch has been laid out for them.

      Well done Michael Russell 🙂

    121. shug says:

      I see having teachers are thinking of striking.

      They need to reflect on Union involvement in keeping women’s pay low for council workers and the subsequent protests they held in Glasgow where it was the SNP that made steps to correct the 20 year old issue and not the Union or the Labour Party.

      They are being used by the Labour party as pawns. If they vote for strikes they are not bright enough to be teaching

    122. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 13 January, 2019 at 9:48 am:

      ” … I wish you’d never said that Robert. Now I will have to review everything you have ever written just in case it’s all been horseshit you’ve just made up on the spot.”

      Be my guest, Breeks, but your gobbledegook is still gobbledegook.

      It is the same old Westminster Establishment game – over and over and over again.

      I could list ever so many examples going back for centuries of this idiocy.

      They define a word to mean something other than what it does mean and claim their definition is whatever they decide it to be to suit whatever it is they want to fool fools to believe it means.

      Lets just stick to the so called United Kingdom, shall we?

      The Treaty of Union is between only two kingdoms and thus it has only the seals and signatures of only two kingdoms attached to the document. So how come Westminster decides, (after the agreement is signed), that it doesn’t mean a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms but means instead a take-over of the Kingdom of Scotland by the country of England that, from day one, has treated Scotland as just another country that England has subjugated?

      Fact is that the word kingdom means kingdom and does not mean country.

      Then we have the Westminster claim that there is no written constitution of the United Kingdom but the Treaty of Union actually agrees the rules of what constitutes the The United Kingdom.

      Not to mention that Westminster defines itself as The United Kingdom Parliament yet defines that as an agreed union of four countries of which the country of England alone has no other parliament than the Houses Of Parliament at Westminster which directly runs the country of England and is thus devolving, unequally, a few powers of the legally sovereign Queen of England down to three subservient dominions of the country of England. While doing so Westminster uses EVEL to enforce English rule but still calls itself the United Kingdom Parliament.

      Thing is Westminster is not the authority that defines the meanings of words in the English Language. It is, and always has been a confidence trick. Westminster abounds with such tricks – that doesn’t make them legal.

      For example, The English Rule of Law does not apply in the Kingdom of Scotland yet Westminster quotes Laws made under the old English rule of Law of Divine Right of Kings.

      In this example they apply laws passed by a king of the Kingdom of England who died centuries before the English Rule of Law was changed to create The English Kingdom as a Constitutional Monarchy.

      While that obviously changed the legal standing of the kings & queens of England after 1688 and before the, so called, Union of The Crowns – which may indeed have personally united the crowns for the sitting monarch but did not unite the two kingdoms as a united kingdom.

      Furthermore Westminster applies parts of the Magna Carta to the whole United Kingdom but The Magna Carta is specifically English law and has no place under Scots law.

      So, there you go, doing just what I claimed you to be doing – pushing hard the Westminster case and using the Westminster redefined meanings of words to suit Westminster mantras.

      Words have precise meanings and legally words have to have precise meanings otherwise lawyers can redefine words to suit their cases

      Now lets look at the word, “Personality”, shall we?

      “blockquote>“personality – noun: personality; plural noun: personalities

      1. – the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual’s distinctive character.

      Example- “she had a sunny personality that was very engaging”

      synonyms: character, nature, disposition, temperament, make-up, persona, psyche, identity

      2. – a celebrity or famous person.

      Example – “an official opening by a famous personality”

      synonyms: celebrity, VIP, star, superstar, celebutante, name, famous name, household name, big name, somebody, leading light, notable, personage, luminary, notability, worthy.”

      Got it now, Breeks?

      “Personality”, refers ONLY to the person not to a legal system or even to a group of persons – although I suppose it could be correct to use the word as, “The general personality of the group was outgoing or gregarious”, but note that it is applying individual personality as being common to the individuals composing the group.

      However, Rules of Law do not have, “personalities”, and that is the Westminster long established con-tricks of abusing language to suit and justify their actions.

      It is also known as jargon. Go look that definition up if you do not believe me.

      https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-legal-personality.htm
      Not only does Legal Personality properly exist, not having recognised personality is the definitive reason Scotland was excluded from Brexit negotiations. Neither Westminster nor Europe recognised Scotland as an interlocutor because Scotland was without Legal Personality.
      Scotland HAD and exercised Legal Personality in seeking a judgement from the ECJ over the revocation of Article when it brought the case under Scots Law. The UK’s Supreme Court sought to dispute the case being brought, but the ECJ chose to recognise the Legal Personality of Scots Law and reject the Supreme Courts capacity to interfere.
      Once the merits of the case were put before the ECJ, the result was a common sense victory for simple straightforward truth, but a potent affirmation of truth that was binding upon all.
      Scotland has the precedence, the road map freshly established by this innocuous Constitutional Test Case over Article 50, that Scotland could, and should, pursue a similar case under the same Scots Law, to be recognised by the same ECJ, to deliberate on the same competencies in law, and conclude that Scot’s Law, and Scot’s Law’s interpretation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is both extant and ascendant over Westminster Parliamentary Sovereignty.
      The ECJ will then be required to arbitrate on the binary issue of whether Scotland is or is not a sovereign entity which is not currently recognised BUT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE.
      The Union itself could have it’s fallacies and perfidious unconstitutional misadventures stripped bare for all to see, but for the sake of public decency we do not need the spectacle. We can be subtle, we can be innocuous, and simply inquire from the ECJ whether it’s recent adjudication that Article 50 could be revoked by sovereign prerogative, might allow Scotland to be distinct, and revoke Article 50 unilaterally.
      The Scottish Government can then take as long as it likes to win its precious referendum, because Scotland will have a Constitutional Backstop, like Ireland, that COMPELLS Westminster to respect international law, and respect Scotland has a default mandate to remain in the EU, but critically, Westminster has no Constitutional mandate to remove us.
      The SNP has been paralysed by Europe because all they see is a love triangle between Unionism, and Independence support that is divided between those for and anti Europe. Rather than amplify the divide between pro and anti Europe support and jeopardise the delicate and precarious percentage backing Indy, the SNP has tried to be clever and profit from the calamity of Brexit by blaming it all on Unionist BritNat parties, and thereby negotiating Brexit without ever testing the issue of anti-European Yes voters who cannot have both. That is why Nicola Sturgeon abdicated all initiative more than two years ago, handing the responsibility for Brexit to Theresa May and Westminster.
      The SNP strategy is a study in political compromise and intrigue which seeks to steer a finally balanced alliance of YES voters through the Brexit problem without ever exposing that YES resolve to haemorrhaging support through the binary choice of YES voters being pro or anti Europe. That’s very sensible, especially if you are afraid of how the BritNat Press hyenas will amplify any dip in YES support.
      We ALL see that. But unfortunately, “all of us” seeing that includes the UK Establishment, and Westminster has played Holyrood like a violin. It has neutered and contained the possibility of Scotland’s Constitutional rebellion over Brexit by keeping alive and cogent the possibility that division over Europe will also divide a YES vote, leaving the SNP hamstrung with an existential dilemma on its hands. Scotland has been boxed in and “contained” from the beginning. That is why the SNP does “nothing”, because it has allowed itself to be trapped, and Theresa May has simply run down the clock. The theoretical stand-off between pro and anti YES voters is the same paralysing conundrum now that it was in 2016 when the SNP stood back from the provocative and polarising issue of Sovereignty and elected to pursue an anodine soft Brexit instead.
      This “trap” is why it is imperative that Scotland finds a way to break itself free, drawing meaningful purchase and advantage from Brexit, but save ourselves from Brexit without polarising the YES vote in the process.
      The answer is staring us in the face. An reciprocally anodine, apolitical Constitutional Test Case to test the Constitutional subjugation we do have with the Constitutional Sovereignty we should have. No mandate required, no majority threatened, no seismic swings in public opinion. We seek a “librarian’s revolution” – a modest question whether Scotland can revoke Article 50 unilaterally. We secure absolute victory by our existing sovereign constitution, but ssshh! We merely affirm their absolute defeat with a whisper in Westminster’s lug.
      Or maybe we can play it your way Robert. Three cheers for Nicola. The smartest politician in Holyrood…. to the bitter end and eternal winter of Brexit.
      Aye. Maybe it isn’t Theresa May who needs a Constitutional reminder whispered in her lug.
      75 days.

    123. Gerry says:

      @Craig Murray

      That they rushed headlong into this contrived nonsense so blindly is indicative of just how desperate they are. They know that AS has the better of them and they shat out. They were prepared to take that chance and pay that price in order to take the man down.
      The price will likely be paid by Evans when they throw her under the bus, but still, I think AS will care more about seeing justice done and some serious scrutiny of the leaks in particular over any amount they could ever offer.

      They didn’t think this through, and not because they are stupid but rather because they really are that desperate.

    124. Craig Murray says:

      Yes I am quite sure too that Alex is much more interested in the truth coming out than any dosh they can offer him to keep quiet.

    125. Golfnut says:

      @Breeks.

      And I agree with you. The SG and the SNP could have and perhaps should have been much more aggressive in countering Westminster. I don’t know what action the SNP/SG has planned, what I’m pretty certain of, it will be challenged in court. I’m also pretty certain that all the abuse that Westminster has rained down on Scotland since 2014 and indeed even before the referendum took place, will ensure Westminster loses.

    126. Capella says:

      @ Gerry – it looks to me that they have had these allegations on the back burner since 2013. If there had been cast iron evidence of sexual harassment by AS then 2013/14 would have been the time to go public. Yet nobody, not even his hostile biographer, David Torrance, even hinted at such behaviour.

      But now, at the BREXIT end game, when a second independence referendum is certain to be called, they are trialling every possible smear. The change in the Civil Service procedure signed off in December had to be in place before they could go after a former minister. Leslie Evans put that in place.

      Looks deeply suspicious to me and, as Craig Murray points out, the British state is expert at this game. But Alex Salmond is on their case. Stressful as it is, I hope he does pursue them in court and get to the truth.

    127. Petra says:

      @ Proud Cybernat says at 11:15 am …. ”According to Sunday Mail headline ‘Salmond has his scalp’ as Leslie Evans set to step down for incompetence. Ho-hum….”

      If true that should keep the pot boiling. More headlines … ”Poor wee, innocent wummin loses her job whilst crafty Nicola Sturgeon gets away with it … time for Nippy to go.”

      That might have been part of the plan too. Evans moves to pastures new, with a pay rise, or retires with her pension and big bucks. Isn’t she due for retirement anyway? Handy.

      ……………………..

      @ Craig Murray says at 9:38 am …. ” This shows they conceded in such a panic they did not understand what they were doing, and their lawyers did not explain it to them. The reason they conceded in such haste was to keep the evidence of their wrongdoing secret and avoid questioning under oath, particularly on who leaked to Clegg at the record. But if they now try to renege on paying costs, the case is going to open up again. Which actually would be a good thing. Similarly when Alex sues them for damages; he will be able to force them into the witness box then; all he has to do is refuse to settle. Expect them to beg him to accept huge amounts of taxpayers’ money out of court.”

      I read in the Sun (yeah may be wrong) that three secret, behind-the-door court sessions were held over Christmas – 19 / 21 / 28th December 2018, with Leslie Evans seemingly giving her evidence on the 21st. Maybe McKinnon was questioned at that time too?

      Why were these sessions being held in secret (at all?) in late December when there was a four day slot for them to be heard in January? …. this coming week in fact.

      I also find it a bit of a ”co-incidence” that Judith McKinnon gave up her job as Head of Human Resource Governance at Police Scotland in 2017 to take on the role (what month?) of Head of People Advice (what irony) with the Scottish Government and in that same year found two ”complainants” (in August?) who had never complained about Alex Salmond previously. Over a four year period from the so-called ”incidents” in 2013 no complaints had been made about him … nothing on record, so how did McKinnon know who they were and where to find them? That is if genuine complainants actually exist.

      Following her ”unofficial” talks with them she is then involved in amending the Harassment Policy with Evans in late 2017 in effect to cover retrospective cases of ex-employees (i.e. AS) which is then followed by the complainants making an official complaint shortly after the amendment is made official policy. Judith McKinnon then moves into Investigating Officer mode.

      Someone should be delving into Judith McKinnon’s background too, imo. A prior link between her and Evans? A link between them and the complainants (if we ever find out who they are?). It looks as though they have both made a number of enemies over time. Maybe one or two of them will blow the whistle now? Contact Alex. Hopefully. Meanwhile Alex Salmond should consider dragging them through the Courts. The question is can he do that with them being protected by the Official Secrets Act? Maybe you can answer that one Craig?

    128. Capella says:

      This might also explain why these women did not just go to the police to make a complaint. That would have been normal procedure and what you might expect their line manager to suggest.

      But the civil servants had to change their procedure before they could carry out the investigation.

    129. Ghillie says:

      Nana @ 10.38 am

      Just listened to Leslie Riddoch’s podcast – thoroughly enjoyed it!

      Worth a listen folks.

      Thanks Nana =)

    130. Colin Alexander says:

      Breeks

      Could make a formal complaint to the European Union Commission using the Charter of Fundamental Rights demanding a right for his complaint to be examined and Brexit postponed until his complaint has been examined.

      His complaint: as a citizen of Scotland he is sovereign, as are all citizens of Scotland due to the unique compositional status of the UK so that Scotland should have an effective veto such as Belgian regions had in the Canada / EU trade deal. Scotland should have had a unique voice in EU-Ref and Brexit and was unlawfully denied this by UK and EU.

      https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=EN

      https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/contact_en

      There you go Breeks, get on with it instead of wasting time with blowhards on Wings. Except I doubt you will even read this as you’re wrapped up in arguing the toss with RP etc

    131. Hamish100 says:

      Mike says:
      13 January, 2019 at 10:11 am
      @Hamish100

      None of the pro unionist papers are pretending to be pro indy so it would be stupid to attack them on the grounds that they are.

      Christ man get a grip or stop posting on issues you clearly don’t understand.

      mickey
      oh dear got your hackles up that. Your proposal is just to attack pro independence papers. Its a Sunday so I suppose Christ may have a view. I think your attack on independence papers is clearly understood as to and what you are. lol

    132. Craig Murray says:

      Petra,

      You are spot on, about everything. I am hoping to get the greenlight to publish a lot more detail next week. The most shocking stuff about those two’s actions has not come out yet. But I don’t want to cut across Alex’s legal actions. Worst thing would be for his options to be damaged because stuff entered the public domain too early.

    133. Brus MacGallah says:

      It would appear that Leslie Evans has some past form of being economic with actualité

      https://www.kidsnotsuits.com/fake-news-how-public-lies-begin/

    134. North chiel says:

      “ Petra says @ 1235 pm”, yes all very sinister indeed. Also, if I recall correctly , David Lidingtin was in Edinburgh iduring Jan 18, A few days later the “ story” hit the headlines. It would be interesting to know if he had any meetings during his visit with any “ senior U.K. civil servants”??

    135. Mike says:

      @Hamish100

      “Your proposal is just to attack pro independence papers.”

      No its not its to attack the notion that a specific journal its trying to pose as a pro indy paper but failing as some of the so called journalists employed fail to keep their own pro union bias out of their articles.

      Wings and Newsnet are both prime examples of what a pro Indy mainstream newspaper should look like which is why they are both successful in debunking the MSM the National in comparison is no better than the Daily Record. When was the last time the national actually went out of its way to debunk anything?

    136. Petra says:

      @ Craig Murray says at 12:54 pm …. ”Petra, you are spot on, about everything. I am hoping to get the greenlight to publish a lot more detail next week. The most shocking stuff about those two’s actions has not come out yet. But I don’t want to cut across Alex’s legal actions. Worst thing would be for his options to be damaged because stuff entered the public domain too early.”

      Great to hear that you are on top of this, Craig. I’m sure there is more ”shocking stuff” to come out in relation to those two charlatans and of course loads more that we’ll never find out about. You are between a rock and a hard place of course in ”outing” those two without damaging Alex’s case. Maybe you should think of contacting Alex …. anonymously … wink, wink.

      Additionally just amazing to think that two ”incidents” occurred in 2013 and they weren’t used then to damage our IndyRef chances in 2013 / 2014. More to the point would someone like Alex with 40 years in politics, and as astute as he is with an unblemished record, do anything to ruin our chances of becoming Independent?

      ……………………………..

      @ North chiel says at 1:16 pm …. ”Petra, yes all very sinister indeed. Also, if I recall correctly , David Lidingtin was in Edinburgh during Jan 18, A few days later the “ story” hit the headlines. It would be interesting to know if he had any meetings during his visit with any “ senior U.K. civil servants”??

      It wouldn’t surprise me to hear, if we ever would, that they had a wee tete-a-tete, NC. I also read recently that Evans (said so herself in an article) attends meetings in London every Wednesday morning. Up at 5:30 am or whatever to get her flight to London to hash over the ”Scottish perspective.”

    137. Petra says:

      @ Mike says at 1:37 pm …. ”When was the last time the national actually went out of its way to debunk anything?”’

      Every day Mike due in the main to the fact that it offers a platform to those that other newspapers don’t give the light of day to, such as ….. Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, George Kerevan, WGD, Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp, Mhairi Black, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, Leslie Riddoch etc, etc, etc.

      Try buying and reading it, before you start bumping your gums on here.

    138. Thepnr says:

      @Petra/Capella

      At least one case of sexual harrassment from 2013 was investigated back then and resolved at the time. I believe that it the more serious of the two cases currently under police investigation.

      Alex Salmond sexual harassment case resolved in 2013, claim advisers

      Salmond’s legal papers claim that one of the cases of alleged harassment in late 2013 was settled informally at the time using the Scottish government’s fairness at work procedures.

      Sources close to Salmond said he offered the female civil servant an apology for a “misunderstanding” after the incident at Bute House, the first minister’s official residence in Edinburgh’s New Town.

      Salmond had refused to disclose this information until last weekend, but his advisers claimed his apology was accepted without it being escalated into a formal complaint and investigation.

      They argued that its re-emergence as a formal complaint four years later was an abuse of process, further undermining the investigation launched in January this year by Leslie Evans, the permanent secretary at the Scottish government.

    139. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Robert Peffers
      Breeks

      RP says:

      ““Personality”, refers ONLY to the person not to a legal system or even to a group of persons – although I suppose it could be correct to use the word as, “The general personality of the group was outgoing or gregarious”, but note that it is applying individual personality as being common to the individuals composing the group.

      However, Rules of Law do not have, “personalities”,… ”
      ———————————–
      ———————————-
      Perhaps this will help:

      “A juridical person is a non-human legal entity, in other words any organization that is not a single natural person but is authorized by law with duties and rights and is recognized as a legal person and as having a distinct identity. This includes any incorporated organizations including corporations, government agencies, and NGOs. Also known as artificial person, juridical entity, juristic person, or legal person.

      The rights and responsibilities of a juridical person are distinct from those of the natural persons constituting it.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juridical_person
      —————

      “So there are of two kinds of legal entities, human and non-human: natural persons (also called physical persons) and juridical persons (also called juridic, juristic, artificial, legal, or fictitious persons, Latin: persona ficta), which are other entities (such as corporations) that are treated in law as if they were persons.”

      See under:

      “Some examples of juridical persons include:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

      ———————————

    140. Mike says:

      @Petra

      Or you could refer me to a particular piece of debunking so I can see it for myself and be forced to admit I was wrong.

    141. Petra says:

      @ Thepnr says at 2:12 pm ….

      Thanks for that info, Thepnr. It looks as though that particular investigation was in line with the 23rd August 2018 ”Bute House” leak in the Daily Record. That is unless another ”incident”, (or not) took place at Bute House.

      ……………………

      @ Mike says at 2:22 pm … ”Petra …. Or you could refer me to a particular piece of debunking so I can see it for myself and be forced to admit I was wrong.”

      FGS Mike don’t be so bl**dy lazy. Buy the newspaper or check it out online. The National”debunking” so-called Unionist guff goes on every day from Brexit to fisheries, Trident, oil and gas and so on. There’s also terrific, informative comments outlined on the readers pages where numerous, ordinary individuals are ”debunking” Unionist garbage hand over fist.

      Well seeing that you don’t actually read the newspaper Mike, so to my mind aren’t in a position to run it down alongside the cabal of anti-National (SNP, Nicola Sturgeon etc) BritNats on here.

    142. Petra says:

      Oh meant to ask, Thepnr – 2:12pm), which newspaper was that data taken from?

    143. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      It’s from the Guardian, Severin Carrell Oct last year.

      http://archive.fo/D5BHR

    144. Petra says:

      Thanks for that, Thepnr X

    145. Mike says:

      @Petra

      Seriously? You’re going with I cant actually provide a single piece of actual debunking but I can waffle a generic line about stuff instead.

      Well Im convinced.

    146. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:03 pm

      “Rock.

      OK here it is. I know that another referendum will be called for. When ? Within the next year when we know the full outcome of Brent. Not before.”

      By January 2020 then?

      Let us see who will be proved right.

    147. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:03 pm

      “That may not suit yourself ,but it is better than UDI which you favour”

      I do not favour UDI, never have.

    148. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:03 pm

      “If you truly believe Rock that there will be no referendum till 2600, then why come to this site. We will all be dead by then.”

      2640 AD to be precise.

      For practical purposes, yes we will all be dead by then.

      But then dead people vote No in Scotland.

    149. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:03 pm

      “No Rock, that’s not what you are about. You are about rabble rousing. The mob suits your own predisposition for hatred. You live by hatred and resentment.

      This is infertile ground for ideas like yours Rock. We want freedom without bloodshed. I think I will call you Che Rock from now on.”

      You are free to hold whatever opinions about me you like.

    150. Rock says:

      Terence callachan says:
      12 January, 2019 at 10:35 pm

      “To Rock…..
      You asked me to predict when Nicola Sturgeon will announce a date for another Scottish independence referendum.
      Yes I will

      I predict she will announce the date of another Scottish independence referendum, the day after Brexit is finalised”

      Let us see who will be proved right.

    151. Cubby says:

      Rockshit = Britnatshit. That is my opinion and I don’t need any Britnat like Rockshit to give me permission to hold this opinion.

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      Rock is so boring it’s full of holes you can see right through.



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