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A World Insane

Posted on November 02, 2023 by

We held back from writing about yesterday’s judgment from Lady Dorrian in the Court Of Session in the hope that if we stared at it for long enough we could get it to make some kind of sense. But it does not. On the face of it, the country’s second-most-senior judge is simply a drooling imbecile.

Because that submission is not the least bit difficult to follow.

– Dave is a man. He’s attracted solely to women, and as such is heterosexual.

– One day Dave decides (or in transactivist terms, “realises”) that he too is a woman. He applies for a Gender Recognition Certificate, and he convinces the panel that he is indeed mentally ill, which is in essence the sole criterion for being “trans”. The rest of the process is mere admin.

– In the fullness of time the certificate is duly granted. In accordance with Lady Dorrian’s judgement, with possession of a GRC Dave is now legally – and in all other senses – female.

– Dave is still exclusively attracted to women. But as Dave IS a woman, Dave is now a lesbian, because that’s what a lesbian is – a woman attracted to women.

Ipso facto, Dave’s sexual orientation has changed, from straight to gay.

It’s not complicated. Men who like women are straight. Women who like women are gay. Dave has in law, and necessarily, switched from one to the other. He is “legally lesbian”, in that he is entitled to raise a claim for discrimination under the Equality Act on the grounds of his new lesbian status. Lady Dorrian is clearly, observably wrong about that fact. Being lesbian is a characteristic which does have legal existence.

(Although as the Glasgow University law lecturer Michael Foran noted, the judgement means that lesbians effectively no longer have any rights at all.)

If Lady Dorrian genuinely – as she claims in her judgement – cannot even follow, never mind agree with, that extremely straightforward reasoning, then in any sane world she is manifestly unfit for her position and should be dismissed.

But as is pointed out by solicitor Gordon Dangerfield in a blog post today, we should afford her some sympathy, because we do not live in a sane world.

A circle cannot be squared. Scotland’s courts have been asked to resolve two directly contradictory positions advanced by the Scottish Government: (1) that a GRC is merely a piece of administrative paperwork that confers no new rights, and (2) that it is a radically transformative document that in law changes a person’s sex.

(The latter being the position they advanced successfully in yesterday’s case.)

Forced at gunpoint to choose, Lady Dorrian came down firmly and unambiguously on the side of option (2). Her judgement makes plain that trans people without a GRC – in other words, 95%+ of them – remain legally the sex they were born as.

This directly contradicts the Scottish Government’s stated position that “trans women are women”. Lady Dorrian just ruled that in fact only 5% of transwomen are women, and the rest are still men.

There IS now “a legal requirement to treat them otherwise”, because the law has just unequivocally stipulated that unless they have a GRC, they are men.

Both Foran and Dangerfield, as well as every single other legal expert we’ve read since yesterday, agree that the judgement torpedoes the Scottish Government’s challenge to the UK government’s blocking of the Gender Recognition Reform bill under Section 35 of the Scotland Act.

So lacking the option of a sane world, we should rejoice that the least insane of two insane outcomes has transpired. Self-ID in Scotland is dead in the water, and we should try not to fret unduly that it’s dead for ridiculous reasons. What really matters is that it’s dead.

It’s far from a perfect victory. Women’s groups, gay men’s groups and lesbian groups have suffered a grave loss of rights in the wake of the judgement. They can now explicitly be maliciously sabotaged and destroyed with impunity, but only by the tiny minority of trans people who have a GRC, not by anyone who just feels like it.

They should not be asked to be happy about that or to accept it. But since it was already happening anyway, at least it’s just been made considerably more difficult to carry out in practice.

Gordon Dangerfield is right that the only ultimate solution to insanity is to repeal the source of it – the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Impossible falsehoods should never be enshrined in law, because only madness can ever result.

The GRA was created because the Labour government of the time did not want to legislate for equal marriage, but that obstacle was blown up by the SNP and the Tories in 2014/15 and no longer applies. In the end judgements like yesterday’s, by bringing the lunacy into sharp relief and forcing an absurd outcome (because only absurd outcomes were possible), can only hasten that long-overdue and necessary process.

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0 to “A World Insane”

  1. Luke Warm Dave says:

    I have a vision of Nevile Chamberlain in drag standing in a woman’s bathroom proclaiming “I have in my hand a piece of paper… fuck off”.

  2. Athanasius says:

    This is what happens in a world where any kind of limit is an injustice.

  3. PeedOffScot says:

    The SNP / Green Coalition Government of Scotland has attempted to answer the call from those who would transfer their status in society.

    I agree, the process had not changed for decades and was outdated placing the psychiatrists as gatekeepers and it took years to obtain a GRC.

    However, what the Coalition Government tried to do went far beyond what was necessary and become so convoluted trying to appease trans extremists that it morphed into a monster.

    Having supported quite a number of trans people over the past 30 years they were universally pleased that at last processes would be so much easier and quicker. However, all but one has changed their mind because of what the GRRB became. They were settled and accepted within their local communities and living quiet reasonably happy lives but they are now experiencing verbal abuse that for them had stopped a long time ago.

    A friend of mine commented about a month ago “if a man can change their biological sex with a piece of paper, does that mean they will not be allowed treatment for prostate cancer?”

    Answers on a postcard to……….”

  4. Red says:

    It is difficult to get people to understand things their social status and career progression prospects depend on them not understanding.

    Gordon Dangerfield is right that the only ultimate solution to insanity is to repeal the source of it – the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Impossible falsehoods should never be enshrined in law, because only madness can ever result.

    You are right, of course.

    We should not pretend that men can be women, because they can’t. Anybody who refuses to understand basic human biology has no business holding a position of authority over humans.

    Strike at the root. The root of this problem is cowardice, and the lies that result from cowardice.

  5. Dubh says:

    And so, we have to grasp onto the reed thin hope that the UK will repeal the GRA so that biological sanity can return to Scotland.

    Will they include this judgement in their decision? And, when is it that they publish their decision?

    Know this has been asked before, but is there any merit in us ALL applying for a GRC?

  6. Merganser says:

    Red @ 11.24am.

    Yes As I said in my previous post, no government can turn cats into dogs, sows ears into silk purses, or men into women. Look what happens when they try.

    Common sense has gone out of the window.

  7. sarah says:

    A small flicker of hope has emerged that truth, reality, reason, justice may be allowed to return to our society. Enjoy it while we may.

  8. Captain Yossarian says:

    The fundamental problem is not that the lawyers are idiots, it is the law makers that are idiots. Another example of how the Holyrood administration (the law-makers) is not fit for purpose and is actually making life for Scots a lot worse than it needs to be. I think that is slowly sinking into peoples’ consciousness, but it is taking longer than I thought it would. I cannot see this administration lasting much longer. There are too many cover-ups coming to light at last.

  9. Liz says:

    Problem is, as far as I am aware, no one can ask a ‘trans’ person if they hold a GRC.

  10. Sven says:

    Posting on behalf of Ruby.

    Just to stop you exploding with frustration over not being able to post sooner.

    Yes, you have been saying for some time that the Gender Recognition Act, 2004, is what requires to be repealed.
    There you go, hope that gives some comfort, it’s what you have maintained previously.

  11. Ally says:

    How can she not follow that a GRC now modifies a persons sexual orientation?

    The EQ2010 act defines Sexual Orientation as this:

    12 Sexual orientation

    (1)Sexual orientation means a person’s sexual orientation towards—

    (a)persons of the same sex,
    (b)persons of the opposite sex, or
    (c)persons of either sex.

    (2)In relation to the protected characteristic of sexual orientation—

    (a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a person who is of a particular sexual orientation;

    (b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons who are of the same sexual orientation.

    For Lesbians it’s “persons of the same sex” not of the same Gender.

    They couldn’t even change it to mean person(s) of the same gender because as we’ve discovered there are literally hundreds of genders and would make that characteristic unusable.

  12. Ruby says:

    None of this prevents men without a GRC dressing up as women and fooling children.

  13. Mark Beggan says:

    The people of Scotland will never forgive the SNP and Greens for playing Gender God. They are kaput.

    Sturgeon is going down in the history books as a woman who hated her own sexuality. The woman who betrayed women.
    Harvie is going down as something you stood in. But make sure you wipe your feet.

    They will eternally be associated with this depravity of the human condition.

    “Girls who want boys
    Who like boys to be girls
    Who do boys like they’re girls
    Who do girls like they’re boys
    Always should be someone you really love. ”

    Hands up who went to the Med in the 90’s and took MDMA?

    Let’s not forget Humza the over grown school boy.

  14. Craig says:

    I’ve read this twice and I can’t grasp what has happened.

    Can someone be kind enough to explain it in layman terms so I can understand what has happened.

    Many Thanks

  15. Ruby says:

    Cheers Sven

    Could you do a post about ‘woman face’ that is also a problem

  16. Captain Yossarian says:

    I remember when GRR was being debated at the time and these shortcomings were being pointed-out mainly by women’s groups, but also by the Dean of the Faculty of Advocates. Alex Cole Hamilton said: “The Courts will sort these things out”. So, this is what you get, isn’t it? Practically all at Holyrood voted for GRR and so this mess is upon them.

  17. Mark Beggan says:

    The picture of Dorrian Grey.

  18. Nally Anders says:

    Liz @ 12.06
    You are quite correct.
    It would be deemed hateful to ask a transperson if they have a GRC, never mind asking them to actually produce it.
    Many will falsely claim ownership.

  19. Merganser says:

    Craig @ 12.11.

    In simple terms, the UK Parliament and the Scottish Parliament have been trying to be God by passing laws which conflict withe reality and the laws of nature.

    In doing so they have advanced the position of perverts and deviants and left the position of normal decent people far behind.

    Politicians have been acting like they have powers to do what King Canute could not do – stopping the tide coming in for example.

    Their arrogance knows no bounds.

    The Courts should have just said “This rubbish is not justiciable. go back to the drawing board”

  20. Dave says:

    Fondly remember a time when a man calling themselves a lesbian was seen as a joke or piss poor chat up line. So glad we’ve become more enlightened.

  21. DavidL says:

    The decision yesterday basically says that a GRC does what it says on the tin. The recipient of such a certificate is to be recognised as being of the assigned gender for all purposes (s9). The argument that not taking into account that certificate when counting the number of females on a board, for example, has been rejected and rightly so.

    Two things arise.

    Firstly, it emphasises how dangerous the GRR bill is. The conclusion reached by the court is only tolerable if the criteria for obtaining a GRC are strict and rigorous, as they are under the 2004 Act. Self certification, which the bill essentially allows, would cause huge problems given the profound effect of the certificate.

    Secondly, as is pointed out in the thread, the concept of self identification is dead in so far as legal rights are concerned. Sex pests who self identify as women, remain men unless and until they get their GRC under the 2004 Act.

    The GRR bill remains a serious threat to women’s hard won rights and this decision shows the extent of that danger because the acquisition of a GRC will cause the protections afforded by the EA to fly off.

  22. AnneDon says:

    This is like the punchline of a bad joke. And lesbian groups are already paying the price of being bullied and threatened and having meetings disrupted and cancelled.

    On a related subject, I see the Greens are dribbling about feeling “unsafe” if Ash Regan has an office in the same corridor as them.

    But the rest of us have to accept that any violent man in a wig can access womens’ safe spaces.

    Feckin’ misogynistic hypocrites.

  23. Red says:

    Sven says:
    2 November, 2023 at 12:07 pm
    Posting on behalf of Ruby.

    Just to stop you exploding with frustration over not being able to post sooner.

    Yes, you have been saying for some time that the Gender Recognition Act, 2004, is what requires to be repealed.
    There you go, hope that gives some comfort, it’s what you have maintained previously

    Ruby, I hope your day is going well.

  24. panda paws says:

    “They can now explicitly be maliciously sabotaged and destroyed with impunity, but only by the tiny minority of trans people who have a GRC, not by anyone who just feels like it.”

    But you aren’t allowed to ask someone if they have a GRC so effectively it can be destroyed by the other 95% too.

    Whilst everyone bar Lady Dorrian knows exactly what Baroness Faulkner meant by “legally lesbian”, if you want to be pedantic – there isn’t such a thing. Sexual orientation is the protected characteristic. Having a GRC effectively means your sexual orientation has changed, though obviously it hasn’t. Therefore, instead of having a right not to be discriminated against because you’re a straight man, you’re now protected against discrimination as a lesbian. Yes it’s bonkers.

    Either the Equality Act is amended to state that sex means biological sex and rewrites all the nonsensical bits about acquired gender becoming your sex OR you repeal the whole GRA.

    If Labour win, they won’t do either.

  25. Republicofscotland says:

    I loathe the Westminster government, but striking down this insane nonsense needs to happen, the trans issue (men becoming women, women becoming men, which they cannot) has seen respected, maybe that’s too strong a word, more like listened to people in power in all levels, obfuscate, when asked do they know what an adult human female is.

    The likes of Lady Dorian has damaged her reputation and credibility by buying into this nonsense, mind you Dorian is not be trusted on other matter we know about, but which I will not mention.

  26. Xaracen says:

    A Scot Abroad said;


    It ain’t ever going to happen. 9.3% is all Scotland is ever going to get. It would be far less if iScotland was in the EU, and a disaster for iScotland if it wasn’t in the EU.

    I can see that you are arguing from a point of what you see is a principle. I’ve never met anyone who sees the same principle that you try to argue. I don’t think it’s a real thing. I don’t think that anyone else does, either. Therefore, on balance, my argument is that Scotland gets 9.3%.

    I can see that you are arguing from a point of what you see is a principle. I’ve never met anyone who sees the same principle that you try to argue. I don’t think it’s a real thing. I don’t think that anyone else does, either.”

    Do you really? The principle is simple;

    The theft of something cannot be justified on a democratic basis of a majority being in favour of the theft from the minority that owns it.

  27. Lorna Campbell says:

    At the last asking, Westminster refused to repeal the 2004 GRA. Men can never, in reality, become women, and vice versa. That is the red line which never have been crossed. The 2004 GRA is nothing more now than a springboard from which to breach boundaries and laws. The GRRB was patently more than an administrative exercise.

    Every move by the ‘trans’ lobby has been supported by all the parties, to some extent, and, although the Tories say they are against further moves, they refuse to do anything to prevent them. Some matters must be legislated against in order to protect the vulnerable and the innocent. If politicians want a free-for-all in matters sexual, they could do worse than push through all and every piece of legislation that supports ‘trans’. Isn’t that precisely what has been happening?

    What needs to be recognized – and not just recognized – but admitted publicly is that all transsexuuals, whether they have undergone surgery or otherwise – are driven by sexual motivates. Most will be AGPs (autogynaephiles, with or without fetishes) and others will be fetishists who get their kicks from a vast array of sexual triggers. I do not give a toss whether some have lived quiet lives in their communities with no problems in the past.

    We have problems now because the new wave want to eat their cake and still have it. If they want to help to end this, they need to admit publicly what they are: which is sexually deviant men. They are not a threat physically to women and children, but, psychologically, they are as great a threat as the ones with their meat and two veg intact because most will not, in most instances, admit that this movement is driven by sexual delusions and they mostly seem to be of the “I was born in the wrong body” or “I knew when I was two years old that I was ‘trans'”. Sorry, but those claims are driving the ‘transitioning’ of children and young people.

    That does not mean that people with deep psychological problems or, indeed, mental illness, should not receive their civil and human rights like the rest of us or that they should be singled out for ill-treatment, but half the battle to destroying this men’s sexual ‘rights’ movement is to have it laid bare publicly what it is driven by: deviant sexual desires. A firm refusal to be diverted by lies and evasions as to its true nature must now be promulgated.

    Legally, no one actually has any ‘sexual rights’ because the moment they do, their sexual ‘rights’ would impinge on the rights of others – which is exactly the intention of the ‘trans’ lobby, and, ultimately, of Queer Theory. However, as the Rev says above, Lady Dorrian’s ruling means that lesbian women are obligated by a legal fiction to accept the advances of so-called ‘lesbian’ ‘, so-called ‘trans’ identified males who are heterosexual in orientation and in reality, and heterosexual females have been forced to accept ‘trans’ identified men into their spaces. This cannot go on because we have seen what these men are prepared to do in pursuit of their deviant sexual desires. For now, women have been punched and kicked. It is only a matter of time before a resisting female is killed. That is the reality we are facing.

  28. James Che says:

    So does that mean if women born in the 50s transitioned into men by GRC document without having to under go any surgery they would automatically now be entitled to their lost state pension that hit specifically women.?

    It might be wise for women and female lesbian women whom fell foul of the pension transition to re-gender themselves to claim the rights of men,
    You can still dress in any manner you please, cut your hair or grow it long and carry on with your normal sexual orientation as you please, with men or women,
    If trans males are using this system to confuse and change legal rights, perhaps women should should use the system to confuse the government and these illiterate judges.

    Laddie Dorian has even suggested that women have no rights as recognised female born by birth women,
    So I have changed her non existent female women’ s title to Laddie Dorian to comply with women not being recognised as a separate gender from men , it needs a bit of common sense.

    That would confuse the Ombudsman,

  29. Lorna Campbell says:

    panda paws: what the ‘trans’ lobby actually wants is to have the protection of every single category in the 2010 Equality Act by ‘transing’ every one. People need to understand what this movement is on the sexual level, then on the political level, then on the economic level because driving it are the corporates who, through politicians and parties that have received back-handers called donations to party funds, have unleashed this monstrosity on their own populations, and all in the name of equality. What they mean is equity, the darling of the hard left and post modernists, and this demonstrates exactly why equity can never work in reality.

  30. Sven says:

    Red @ 13.24

    I saw what you did there with those block brackets, you cunning computer wizard you !
    Please do keep the commonsense stuff coming, quite cheers me up and makes my day.

  31. James Che says:

    Dorians title before her name is now sexually discriminating . “Lady” implies only female, woman.

  32. Viscount Ennui says:

    Captain Yossarian says:
    Alex Cole Hamilton said: “The Courts will sort these things out”.

    It is NOT the job of courts to sort-out badly drafted legislation. It is for Holyrood to ensure that appropriate scrutiny takes place before laws are enacted. That is why it is called a ‘legislature’.

    What this whole debacle has exposed is the shortcomings of all parties with the exception, perhaps on this occasion, of the Toe-rags.

    Labour was woeful. Proposing vital amendments and then, when they were rejected, stating, “Of, f*ck it, it doesn’t really matter. Vote for the bill”.

    Alice in Wonderland politics.

  33. Andy Storrie says:

    Sounds like yet another London puppet talking shite about trans in a deliberate effort to herd Scots away from Scottish institutions. London has already installed Humza ugly bloke in an effort to alienate people away from the main vehicle for full autonomy. Now we’ve got someone from a senior judiciary role acting like a complete and utter eat the breed. London’s fingerprints are all over the shite this lady was talking. 100%. At this rate, it wouldn’t be surprising if London was behind Alba.

  34. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote: “It’s far from a perfect victory. Women’s groups, gay men’s groups and lesbian groups have suffered a grave loss of rights in the wake of the judgement.”

    Had this been in America someone would be getting sued out of existence and rightly so. Sort of changes that old cliché “Only in America!” doesn’t it? America is now being replaced with Scotland. 😉

  35. Sven says:

    So, am I correct in believing that straight biological men and biological (straight or gay) women are now the only groups who no longer have any rights protected in law ?
    My poor brain hurts.

  36. wulls says:

    Being fair this is not the first time Lady Dorian has made a complete cunt of it.

  37. holymacmoses says:

    One ‘feels’ that Lady Dorrian has been sent here to try us.
    It seems that it’s surprisingly easy to ‘bug’ the legal system in Scotland and in so doing it can destroy the ‘reputation’ of one of the remaining Scottish planks. In order to get on track I think we need to start thinking in Scots again. It wasn’t an accident that Edinburgh became the ‘Athens’ of the North. In essence the Scottish mind is acute , logical and has ‘wit’.
    Here are the opening lines from Wiki on Philosophy in general in which there is a section on Scottish Philosophy

    Scottish philosophy is a philosophical tradition created by philosophers belonging to Scottish universities. Although many philosophers such as Francis Hutcheson, David Hume, Thomas Reid, and Adam Smith are familiar to almost all philosophers it was not until the 19th century that the notion of ‘Scottish philosophy’ became recognized and held to high regard on an international level. In the 20th century, however, this tradition declined as Scottish educated philosophers left for England.

    Certain factions world-wide, seem to be working at how to control people in an increasingly ‘Godless’ world. Some ‘religions’ are clinging to the hope of something better in another world ; others are ensuring that they and theirs can be the ‘fat controllers’ of an Earthly prison. Destroying language and creating fear through the WWW has created a the perfect nesting place for the latter faction. Orwell saw the beginnings of the new system – the ‘political’ medium is frankly irrelevant. Huxley knew that the destruction of books took away the capacity for humans to create meaning.
    The system is attempting to disrupt the very nature of meaning at its base level.
    ‘Birth, sex, death’ are the three ‘realities’ of human existence
    Since the Greeks ‘Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad’ has been the battle cry of those who would control the masses either through religion and/or politics.

    On an optimistic note , I think the current ‘New World Order’ seekers are far too entrenched in their own reputations, far too worried about financial concerns, far too lazy and short-sighted and finally far too intellectually stupid to beat the brains they’re attempting to beat into a pulp

  38. robertkknight says:

    Just because you paint stripes on a horse, that doesn’t make it a zebra.

    I still don’t understand why so many wimmin support the enshrinement in law of a man’s ability to put on a dress and some lippy and then simply walz into women’s toilets, changing rooms, etc. etc. and proceed to have the police remove and possibly charge anyone who objects.

    We’re through the looking glass here people…

  39. Robert Hughes says:

    And the War On Reality takes another turn on the twisting highway to social insanity ; ignoring red lights , paedestrian ( sic ) crossings and women waving frantically from the pavement shouting STOP !

    @ AnneDon . ” On a related subject, I see the Greens are dribbling about feeling “unsafe” if Ash Regan has an office in the same corridor as them. ”

    This SHOULD be hilarious , but given how pathetic , victim-status seeking has been elevated to absurd heights and vicious * Trans * headcases can now .. punch innocent women in the face and receive nothing more than a worthless ” warning ” from the police – it’s not .

    Seeing how the unhinged Idiot Greens – invited into Government by ( I’ll say it again ) the worst ever FM ie Sturgeon – are making a laughing of stock of Scottish governance and no doubt causing many neutral/persuadable people to have serious doubts about what an iScotland would be like , it’s difficult to escape the conclusion their entry into the decision-making heart of SG is a deliberately planted IED , set to cause maximum damage to what has hitherto been considered the main ” vehicle to Independence ” , fragmenting the wider Independence Movement and pushing the prospect of achieving our goal further and further into the quicksand of exploitable public doubt .

    By ” Intelligent Design ” , or not , that almost certainly is what’s happening .

    The priority now , before any other consideration , MUST be the removal of this SNP/Greens abomination .

  40. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote: “Lady Dorrian is clearly, observably wrong about that fact. Being lesbian is a characteristic which does have legal existence. (Although as the Glasgow University law lecturer Michael Foran noted, the judgement means that lesbians effectively no longer have any rights at all.)”

    Rev also wrote: “On the face of it, the country’s second-most-senior judge is simply a drooling imbecile.”

    Extremely polite of you, Rev, i must say. And i’m not joking.
    Her title tells us all we need to know about her.

  41. Cuphook says:

    Calling Lady Dorrian ‘a drooling imbecile’ will probably see you in court for murmuring.

  42. John C says:

    Effectively the meaning of gay and lesbian that we’ve known for millennia is over. Straight males can now legally say they’re lesbians, invade female spaces & generally make it illegal for women and anyone LGB to gather legally in groups above 25 people. We’ve gone from LGB having equal rights to being severely restricted in less than a decade.

    The GRA needs to be repealed. I know this is going to hurt those old-school transexuals who this was designed to help, but also the GRA was deeply homophobic as it was also a way for the then Labour government to avoid legalising same-sex marriage. An incoming Labour government isn’t going to do this so pressure needs to be put on politicians or the effects of this will see young lesbians being preyed on by opportunistic men cosplaying as ‘lesbians’, and sadly, it’s happening now but now they’ve got a legal grounding to wave in people’s face.

  43. The Forge says:

    If I were a Lesbian, I would test the current climate by forming associations by other means, for example by allowing access or membership to a group based on personal friendship. I don’t need to have “friends” who are men. This looks and sounds like a “secret society” and it probably is, but so what. I’m sure someone could find a way of doing this that excluded men but was entirely legal as the law, however stupid it is, stands.

    It would be interesting to see the reaction from the Men’s Rights Movement (read Trans…).

    It would wind Men’s Right Movement activists up to a frenzy but it would also show the sheer insanity of this nonsense.

  44. John C says:

    Craig says:
    2 November, 2023 at 12:11 pm

    I’ve read this twice and I can’t grasp what has happened.

    Can someone be kind enough to explain it in layman terms so I can understand what has happened.

    Many Thanks

    Short version is that for years now Trans activists have said a GRC is just ‘admin’. That it doesn’t change one’s sex & that anyone worrying that it’ll affect women, children and LGB rights is just a bigot panic mongering.

    What the legal ruling means is that actually, a GRC does create a legal fiction where your sex is changed and that in groups of 25 or more, women (and that includes lesbian groups) have to accept trans identifying males or they’re breaking the law. It also applies for homosexual men who now have to accept trans identifying women calling themselves ‘gay men’ into groups or they too are breaking the law.

    Basically LGB rights have taken a massive step backwards. Women’s rights the same. The knock on effect of this is as yet unknown, but it’s a predators charter.

  45. Alf Baird says:

    This mess (and many others) kinda confirms the SNP payroll should have focused on their only purpose – independence.

  46. holymacmoses says:

    The controlling factor is to distrust what you know and trust what you are told.

    Imagine the great storm which never occurs

    Imagine that men and women are interchangeable

    Imagine that the murder of innocent people is justifiable

    Imagine that only each individual knows the truth about themselves and their world.

    Without a unified vision, the world disintegrates

  47. moixx says:

    “There IS now “a legal requirement to treat them otherwise”, because the law has just unequivocally stipulated that unless they have a GRC, they are men.”

    Part of the process of applying for a GRC is for a man to ‘live as a woman’ for a period of time (I think currently it’s at least 2 years).

    I’m not sure what ‘living as a woman’ entails, but as Ruby has pointed out, how can a man ‘live as a woman’ without accessing women’s spaces, eg public toilets?

    So men who want to legally become women are required, as part of their ‘transition’ process, to illegally (?) go into spaces/use resources reserved for women, in order to get the GRC which would then give them the right to use those spaces legally.

    The GRA really needs to be got rid of.

    (Just incidentally, did this have anything to do with the sell off a few years ago of loads of public toilets (ostensibly for financial reasons)? Or was that done specifically so that new replacement toilets wouldn’t be sex-segregated?)

  48. Merganser says:

    Alf Baird @ 2.56.

    Yes, but…they lost the capability of any success when Sturgeon took over. If they had concentrated 100% on independence they would have got nowhere, except keeping the gravy train going round the circular track. They have to go before progress can be made.

  49. Garavelli Princip says:

    Alf Baird says:
    2 November, 2023 at 2:56 pm
    “This mess (and many others) kinda confirms the SNP payroll should have focused on their only purpose – independence.”

    True, and by corollary, the fact that they chose to concentrate on designedly and deliberately negative and divisive policies – like the crazy GRA and other nonsense – strongly suggests that a conscious, directed decision had been taken at the highest levels to ditch independence, and to destroy what had been the primary vehicle of independence – the SNP.

    Who made that decision?

    How and when did the tractor infiltration occur?

    Who are the knaves, and who are the fools?

    There can be little doubt that this was planned and orchestrated – and that it was done by the same conspirators who tried to jail the ONLY leader who took us anywhere near independence.

    The political route is well and truly closed.

    The SNP has no further purpose, other than to continue to fool the Scottish people.

  50. Garavelli Princip says:

    Cuphook says:
    2 November, 2023 at 2:35 pm
    Calling Lady Dorrian ‘a drooling imbecile’ will probably see you in court for murmuring.

    The defence is “Veritas”

  51. PhilM says:

    Not when the last prosecution for slandering a judge in Scotland was in 1870…
    From memory, Judges Act 1540 (murmuring) was repealed in 1973.

  52. Garavelli Princip says:

    LADY Dorrian, we are led to understand, is the LORD Justice Clerk.

    Is there some kind of conflict of interest involved in this person’s judgment on this delicate matter?

    I think we should be told!

  53. Corrado Mella says:

    I have long held to the principle of “Reductio ad absurdum” to assess the solidity and rightfulness of any principle, directive, theory and law.

    “Reductio ad absurdum” means pushing the application of any of the above up to the extreme, while strictly remaining in the confines of the matter, and ascertain that the outcomes never stray into the incoherent and absurd.
    If they do, the principle, theory, law or directive assessed is flawed and must be repealed forthwith, on risk of unraveling the fabric of reality.
    It’s entirely possible that the outcomes of an action exerted between it natural limits would exceed the confines of the scope we wanted to reach: everything is an amplifier.

    Only gaslighting narcissistic sociopaths refuse to accept this fundamental assessment method.

    I have never been proven wrong in my assessments.

  54. Captain Yossarian says:

    Viscount Ennui – I’ with you all the way there sir. I posted twice and you read the second, but not the first. This problem is indeed caused by the lawmakers.

  55. robertkknight says:

    “Cuphook says at 2:35 pm
    Calling Lady Dorrian ‘a drooling imbecile’ will probably see you in court for murmuring”.


    Calling Lady Dorrian ‘a drooling imbecile’ will have you banged up for using hate speech against innocent drooling imbeciles everywhere.

  56. Chas says:

    As an icon of masculinity I have no real interest in men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men.
    As I have said on ‘Wings’ previously, most men who want to be seen as women are homosexuals who simply are unable to ‘own up’ to this.
    In the world, as it is today, there are far too many minority groups who think that their needs/wishes should come before those of the majority. Unfortunately the majority simply get on with their lives whilst the creeps/freaks/nutters shout the loudest and the longest.
    No politician seems willing or even to try and put down some of these absurd minority groups for fear of a backlash against him/her. Bravery is required and the overwhelming majority would be supportive.
    Whilst it gives some a warm fuzzy feeling to think that all people should be treated equally, the reality is that inequality in life has been with us since prehistoric times and will continue until our species is extinct. Live with it.

  57. Stravaiger says:

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but three lefts do.

    This is clearly the result of not applying logic and thinking things through, and now the price is being paid. It also shows up, rather glaringly, that some people in important positions have not got there by merit.

    It reminds me somewhat of the Monty Python “Stop that, it’s silly” sketch.

    Time for a reset.

  58. David Hannah says:

    *Bisexuals like a man to be male and a woman to be female. Simple as that. transsexual cross dressers. Not my type!

    Lady Dorian. She loves the rape culture. She is the face of rape culture in Scotland.

    She’s no feminist. She hates men as well. Scotland deserves better than all over her corruption.

  59. Dan says:

    It appears the runaway gravy train of Bisto snorters have created a right old sticky quagmire. This should prove that there is no doubt that Bisto definitely thickens, in this case the heid’s of the supposedly brightest and best our society can produce to govern us.

    Meanwhile as winter rolls in and folk start freezing due to high energy prices, Scots need to start Self IDing as beavers so they can go fell as many trees as they like for firewood.
    It’s a totes win win as they get cheap locally sourced heating fuel cutting out the big corporates’ excessive profiteering, and as an added bonus the climate gets warmer due to all the additional global server activity of tree hugging fuckers moaning about trees being felled.

    Obviously some trees have more right to exist than other trees, but should all tree life be above that of other entities on this planet.

    Again, self declared unionist Cpt Yossa was the only btl commenter that bothered to engage with this post. Seriously, what the fuck do pro indy commenters want for a self-governing Scotland if you can’t or won’t step up and discuss the merits of gaining more local autonomy and empowerment to actually do stuff.
    You seriously just want to leave it to some elected folk to do everything for you, well look how that’s working out…

  60. Captain Yossarian says:

    Dan – I was the only chap who answered last time and so I’ll answer again: A local 6 or 8 acre garden is filled with specimen trees from all over the world. The owner and his son are both full-time horticulturalists and have been on Gardner’s World and all the rest of it. You would call them “plant hunters”. He has one of only a handful of white mulberry trees in the UK, which is so rare that people drive from England to see it and photograph it. His view? Trees are transient and not permanent. If they become too big, cut them down. If you don’t like them any more, cut them down. This area used to have hardly any trees, the hillsides and gardens were bare and now it is cluttered with them. Not many are worth keeping (in my opinion). Cut them down, dry them and burn them in the fire or wood-burner. I hate to say this, but I agree with you.

  61. wull says:

    Scots, and Scotland, used to be valued for their ‘common sense’. This even became known as a philosophy. Long gone, however, are these glorious days of yore.

    Nowadays, all Scots, throughout the whole of Scotland, and especially any of them who hold any position of responsibility or power in the political, legal, educational, law enforcement, medical or other fields, are to be sectioned and certified. Certified, that is, as suffering from a new, highly infectious and extremely dangerous illness, known as CSD.

    What these letters stand for is ‘Common Sense Dystrophy’.

    The only vaccine against CSD would be a strong dose of Common Sense, but this has been systematically banished from all outlets. As a banned substance, it is no longer available.

    Beware: CSD. which is sweeping the whole country like wildfire, is not only highly contagious but also inevitably, and usually very quickly, fatal.

    There is no avoiding it, and no turning back. Sadly, you Scots, and your country, are all doomed. Since it cannot be stopped – for there is no remedy for CSD, and even to think of stopping it is now beyond everyone’s wildest imaginings – it will lead to the total demise of all Scots, the complete end of Scottish history, and the final extinction of all Scotland.

    Instead of giving Scots the original independence to which they aspired, the SNP gave them first IAR (Independence from all Reality), after which this IAR quickly morphed into IAE (Independence from All Existence).

    All this occurred in a trice of time when the SNP, latterly aided and abetted by their Green Chums from Outer Space, vaccinated the whole population, ‘for its own good’, with the CSD virus.

    The Scots, who were once a great and interesting and lively people, and Scotland, once a fine and proud nation, have finally been brought to naught and eliminated for ever.

    It has been rumoured that Edward I, who declared Dragon against the Scots all these 700+ years ago, in the hope of achieving precisely that end (of exterminating the Scots for once and always), has now lit another pile of bonfires to celebrate that final and long-awaited outcome with his fellow-dragons,in that deep and clammy dungeon, where they all now hang out. They will be raising their glasses filled to overflowing with their own Personal Poisons, to toast the way they turned the SNP, their previous foes, into their greatest accomplices.

    As for the Scots and Scotland… Having succumbed to the CSD virus, all we can say of them is RIP. They were first ‘RIPPED off’ and, then ‘RIPPED to bits’ – in this own most ferocious fashion – by their own Wee Nick, the Tragic Dragon, and all her even wee-er (and even weirder) freens.

    May the Scots, and their Scotland, RIP (Rest in Peace).

    PS I hope I am wrong…

  62. Sandy says:

    Isn’t it just proof of the old saying “If you pay someone enough, you can get them to say anything you want”?

  63. wull says:

    I could have added at the end of the previous post, maybe to keep it somehow on topic, at least as an echo, Ashes to Ashes.

  64. holymacmoses says:

    wull says:
    2 November, 2023 at 5:26 pm
    Scots, and Scotland, used to be valued for their ‘common sense’. This even became known as a philosophy. Long gone, however, are these glorious days of yore.

    Nowadays, all Scots, throughout the whole of Scotland, and especially any of them who hold any position of responsibility or power in the political, legal, educational, law enforcement, medical or other fields, are to be sectioned and certified. Certified, that is, as suffering from a new, highly infectious and extremely dangerous illness, known as CSD.

    The medicine for the pandemic of the day is accurate language, common sense and an understanding of Newton’s Third Law of Motion: Action & Reaction
    His third law states that for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction. If object A exerts a force on object B, object B also exerts an equal and opposite force on object A

    Scottish wisdom and understanding shouldn’t be dismissed.
    The days of the wise are as inevitable as the days of the idiots
    There are laws which are ephemeral and laws which are as eternal as the days of the universe.
    BTW I am not at all religious:-)

  65. Anton Decadent says:

    Now to go after those who went for the children.

    @Ruby, repeal the Act.

  66. holymacmoses says:

    Maybe we don’t realise how important the word ‘SEX’ is? It is the pivotal act for humans between life and death.
    Destroy the BASIC REASON for ‘sex’ and you destroy human existence

    This society has made sex into a fantastical aphrodisiac designed to indulge amoral and often absurd party-goers rather than something to be treasured as a great gift

    And I’m not against people enjoying themselves:-)

  67. Johnlm says:

    ” some men are more woman than other men who are women”.
    Happy days for the Law industry.

    Could we move it over onto a points based system?
    Does It Woke: Trans Protestor Attacks NBC Reporter | Steve Deace Show
    – on YouTube

  68. Republicofscotland says:


    Alex Salmond.

    Scotland has the ability to issue project bonds, doing so as a project could dual the A9. International financial firms agree issuing bonds will raise Scotland’s profile.

  69. John Main says:

    @Dan says:2 November, 2023 at 4:55 pm

    You seriously just want to leave it to some elected folk to do everything for you, well look how that’s working out…

    Dan speaks truth.

    There are only two differences between the likes of Oor Kirsty and the famous Fatima, and the smarter Wings BTL contributors:

    1) OK & FF are prepared to get aff their flabby arses and put themselves up for public office.

    2) The smarter Wings BTL contributors are smart enough to possibly do some good in public office, whereas OK & FF will achieve nowt in 30 years.

    OK, three differences. The likes of Oor Kirsty and the famous Fatima don’t waste precious time posting on Wings BTL.

    In other news. UK economy is looking to be flat lined for all of 2024. I’m thinking UK GE is defo going to be 2025, when there might be some good news for the Tories.

    A year and a half till any significant political change. Jeezo.

  70. Iain More says:

    Oh she is far worse a creature than a drooling imbecile. I will let peopels imaginations do the rest.

    I am off to drool at a bar of chocolate as I suspect drooling at anything ese will have Woksits screaming hystericaly for me to be arrested and banged up for proving not just that I am a male but toxic as a result.

    I suspect that choclate will be added to the Wokist list of tthings I am not allowod to drool at as the word choclate has obvious racist connotations.

    Soon the only thing I will be allowed to drool at in the Wokist-verse will be the Butchers Pinny and God Save us from those Heterosexual Scots and of course The Brit Tory Party in all its colours.

    I am off to watch and drool at old Flake adverts people.

  71. sarah says:

    Petition on
    “Do not allow people to have acquired gender listed as sex on Government ID”.

    There has been a petition to repeal the Gender Recognition Act 2004 – it got 16,000 signatures, most strongly from Scotland, before closing in May 2023.

  72. Mia says:

    “On the face of it, the country’s second-most-senior judge is simply a drooling imbecile”

    She certainly did not leave any doubts about not being the sharpest tool in the box when she embarrassed herself and her profession with her ruling on Mr Craig Murray’s, so called “jigsaw” case, and with what was even more laughable, her “justification” for it.

    The situation reached the pinnacle of stupidity when names in another article had to be retrospectively redacted AFTER it had been published and in the public domain for days.

    I mean, if Mr Murray was accused of jigsaw identification, should the same standards applied to judges and traditional reporters and to Mr Murray, whoever ruled retrospectively to redact that article should have been thrown in jail for life after completing half of the effing puzzle.

    But apparently this new thing of “aiding jigsaw identification”, whatever that means, only applies to those outwith the crown office and judges circles.

    Judging by the ability shown recently by judges, it appears the selection of crown tools is an unsophisticated process where brain power, logic and ability to do critical thinking do not seem to be desirable skills. It seems the desirable skills are reduced to ability to display unconditional loyalty, ability to make up as they go along, ability to keep a straight face after ruling something utterly ridiculous, and ability to follow instructions, no matter how ludicrous, without question.

    Lady Dorrian and the two most recent lord Advocates have made the legal profession and courts in Scotland look like a mockery of justice.

    I still remember the previous Lord Advocate claiming with a straight face that in the malicious prosecutions brought against the Rangers, which apparently will now hit the taxpayer with a £51 million bill, “there had been significant departure from standard practice”, yet, apparently, we are expected to believe there was no criminal misconduct in the Crown Office’s investigation, just because a Lord Advocate says so.

    Funny that. So the Crown Office can inflicts on the taxpayers 51 million pounds of unnecessary costs for gross incompetence and negligence but nobody in the Crown Office is held responsible nor disciplined.

    The Crown Office appears to be in the middle of all the dodgy prosecutions we have had of recent. Yet, they are, somehow, completely immune to be prosecuted themselves and totally exempt of accountability for their gross misconduct.

    But the most comical part of it all is that they expect us to respect the rulings of these “mental giants” and beacons of “justice”.

    Go figure.

  73. Viscount Ennui says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    2 November, 2023 at 6:27 pm

    Alex Salmond.

    Scotland has the ability to issue project bonds..

    Salmond is correct.

    The problem is that an bond issue would betray Scotland’s credit rating and thus expose the nation’s finances to international scrutiny. Given the current situation, the cost of issuing bonds is likely to exceed borrowing direct from WM. We would have to offer a higher yeild.

    Which is why it has not been done, IMHO.

  74. crazycat says:

    @ Sarah at 6.58

    Link for the petition, which I’ve just signed:

  75. John Main says:

    @Republicofscotland says:2 November, 2023 at 6:27 pm

    doing so as a project could dual the A9

    That would certainly improve the roads infrastructure for getting people and materials north of the Central Belt. A shot in the arm, too, for the “pumpers” as somebody quaintly calls them. More roads, and more cars and trucks to go on them. More taxis too.

    About time the North got some of the spoils of rampant development. Still waiting to hear clarity on Yousaf’s immigration plans – is it 1 mill or 2 mill New Scots he wants? Quite unfair they should all be rammed in the Central Belt, let’s get the roads improved and send a half mill or so to Inverness and beyond.

    Let’s not keep all the good news to ourselves. Spread the joy.

  76. sarah says:

    @ crazycat: thanks for putting up the link to the gender id card petition on my behalf! 🙂

  77. ABruce says:

    Thanks for the link to the petition Crazycat. Just signed.

  78. Mac says:

    Lady’ Dorrian is an ass.

    It has been highly revelatory in all of this (going back to the Salmond and Murray stitch-ups) how frightened the good guys like Gordon Dangerfield are, but I am guessing all of them are, pant shittingly frightened of Dorrian and what she will do to their legal careers if they cross her.

    Lady Dorrian is an ass and she is making the law in Scotland an ass.

    Why can’t they directly challenge this dangerous, make-it-up-as-she-goes-along-judge. Why?

    I used to think the Scottish legal system was something to be proud of, distinct and honest, worth keeping post YES. How stupid was I.

  79. msdidi says:

    Alex Salmond
    Scotland has the ability to issue project bonds, doing so as a project could dual the A9. International financial firms agree issuing bonds will raise Scotland’s profile.
    National link archived


  80. John Main says:

    Anybody able to help here?

    Is a gay trans woman the same as a trans gay woman?

    Is a gay trans man the same as a trans gay man?

    [ repeated for the 200 or so recognised genders ]

    I’m thinking myself that it’s like arithmetic or maths, where the terms have to be read strictly left to right in order to get the correct answer, so that means that in these examples they would be different things.

    But it’s a minefield, and I’d hate to get it wrong.

    Haha, just my little joke. I couldn’t care less if I get it wrong.

  81. Effijy says:

    I think you have it the wrong way around.
    You can’t call a drooling imbecile a Judge.

  82. holymacmoses says:

    Johnlm says:
    2 November, 2023 at 6:20 pm
    ” some men are more woman than other men who are women”.
    Happy days for the Law industry.

    Indeed so:-)
    It’s all about language

    Sex matters

    Sex matters

    It’s the difference between headlines and fact

  83. holymacmoses says:

    Thanks for this link

    crazycat says:
    2 November, 2023 at 7:27 pm
    @ Sarah at 6.58

    Link for the petition, which I’ve just signed:

  84. Mac says:

    I am so bored of the thoroughly corrupt and treacherous institutions ‘of Scotland’, the police, the judiciary, the civil service, the education system, the media… everywhere you look.

    If I was elected King of Scotland with unfettered powers I would clean them all out, sack the lot of them.

    I would then bring in an outside independent nation, highly skilled in homeland security and spycraft, in such matters to help us establish a truly Scottish police force, intelligence services working for Scotland, a judiciary loyal to Scotland, a media loyal to Scotland… everywhere you look, loyal to Scotland.

    Someone with the skills and the expertise to root out all the UK infiltrators and spies that Scotland is already utterly hoatching with.

    That nation would be Ru$$ia.

    Then we join BRICS.

  85. caledonia says:

    How come Lady Dorrian always seems to come down on the Scottish Gov side
    Was it not her who got Craig Murray jailed by claiming others who did worse were allowed different rules?

    Or am i missing something

  86. David Hannah says:

    In my opinion Lady Dorian hates freedom.

    When she gave the accusers in sexual offenses trials life long anonymity during the Salmond conspiracy. Knowing fine well they were committing perjury.

    And she hates freedom. She jailed Craig Murray and created the two tier standards for journalism in this country with her ruling.

    So lady Dorian hates freedom. Unless she’s releasing convicted by jury, smirking rapist Stuart Hogg. That’s freedom she doesn’t hate. That is rape culture I suggest.

    She can sentence her Juryless trials to the waste bucket next to her desk in Bute House. Next to the shredder.

  87. Michael Laing says:

    I don’t have much faith in petitions; nevertheless, I’ve signed.

  88. David Hannah says:

    My opinion is therefore this. Lady Dorian. Her ruling is homophobic. It is a rape culture ruling. Just like the time she released convicted rapist Stuart Hogg, convicted by jury. Juries of which she hates. Because she didn’t like the result in the failed political conspiracies in our now pariah kingdom, wanna be state of Scotland.

    Because she’s the freedom hating judge that jails journalists and protects the establishment elite.

    Shame on her. I condemn you to the p45. Lady

  89. John Main says:

    @Mac says:2 November, 2023 at 9:08 pm

    That nation would be Ru$$ia

    Could work. We probably have enough high rise buildings with windows for all those you disapprove of to fall out of.

    But in case we don’t, that’s where novichok comes in. Ru$$ia will give you a good price, too.

    King Mac I has a certain ring to it. Although the idea of voting for a king seems a touch oxymoronic, consider my vote in the bag. Are you planning on claiming the divine right thingy? Which way will you be facing on the BRICS coins? I think that’s important.

    Mind and no lose the common touch.

  90. David Hannah says:

    Remember the Kirsty Wark retrial. Remember the cursing and sneering witches Sarah Smith, Dani Garavelli and Kirsty Wark. Chocking on their tea and upon hearing that Alex Salmond was an innocent man.

    Both couldn’t be telling the truth remember. One had to be lying. And the majority female jury believed Alex Salmond. There for the conspirators were perjurers.

    Did Lady Dorian not repemand woman H during the trial. For trying to lead the jury?

    Or when Sarah Smith said “they’ll never convict him now.”

    I remember reading about that on twitter. Does anyone have that transcript to share.

    I suspect that information has been buried.

    I’d love to read it again.

  91. Captain Yossarian says:

    Mia – It was suggested at the time that no resignations were asked of those at the Crown Office due to the Rangers shenanigans and the pay-off for that would be lifelong compliance with Sturgeon and Swinney’s diktats.

  92. David Hannah says:

    Oh that’s right! It’s funny the things you hold on to knowing fine well there was a conspiracy against a man you loved.

    I happened to save the transcript of the unseen court report the media didn’t want you to know:

    “(1) and (2) Woman H had not hurt her arm fighting Alex Salmond off but broken in in a cycling accident and it was in plaster. Something that the celebrity completely missed out in his description if the woman he met that night.

    Something that you would remeber having had dinner with the First Minister and a
    lady companion. She never did explain who he managed to remove her clothes whilst she had an arm in a cast.

    I overheard Sarah Smith say to her cameraman outside that there was no way the jury would convict him on her evidence as can be witnessed from the viddeo i made just after hearing it.”

  93. A Scot Abroad says:

    Why would anyone sensible want iScotland to join the BRICS?

    Brazil: a country fast going into decades long stagnation.

    Roosia: a country of killers, war criminals, a busted economy, external trade decreasing towards zero, and a population trying to emigrate anywhere abroad.

    India: more poor people than the others put together.

    China: a country with the world’s most disastrous demographics, totally reliant upon imports of both food and energy, the sworn enemy of the most powerful 15 countries in the world, no respect for any type of law, and uniquely vulnerable to sanction and blockade.

    South Africa: an utter basket case that’s going over a cliff and looking to join Zimbabwe at the bottom. A place where not only is power rationed to 16 hours a day, but increasingly unable to provide even water in major cities.

    There’s little to recommend iScotland joining, as iScotland hasn’t got anything the others want apart from work permits for a few million each of their citizens.

  94. David Hannah says:

    More from the secret court report of Salmond conspiracy that lady Dorian knew all about.

    I kept a copy. You know why? Because I loved Alex Salmond. And I believe in the truth. Like Craig Murray.

    It says this.

    “The first charge was rebutted by the witnesses own statements to the police .

    She made 4 statements
    and in the first she had her underwear on. In the second her underwear was round her knees.

    The third it was round her ankles and the fourth it was somewhere on the floor.

    The defence later proved using three differeent diarys that there was no time during the dates in the

    It also came out in her evidence that she had been party to setting up the whatsapp group that went trawling for other people one who became a complainant after ” not having realised that it was sexual
    assault until the police turned up at her door to tell her that it had been reported to them that she had
    been sexually assaulted.

    The judge reprimanded her 4 times for trying to lead the jury

    eventually threatening her with contempt if she didnt stop it.”

    Therefore. I can only conclude. That Lady Dorian knows that woman H was a perjurer she reprimanded 4 times. And a conspirator who created the secret whatapp conspirator group in the Alex Salmond trial.

    Sarah Smith also knew this. Yet went on to the BBC retrial to defame Alex Salmond because they all didn’t like the result.

    No justice has ever been served. I wish justice to be served. For the conspirators to be brought to justice for destroying the life of the man I loved and admired.

    Set the truth free wings over Scotland.

  95. Johnlm says:

    “Why would anyone sensible want iScotland to join the BRICS?“
    That’s a keeper.

  96. John Main says:

    @A Scot Abroad says:2 November, 2023 at 10:24 pm

    China, having loosed the first genetically engineered pandemic on the modern world, and then having failed after an entire year of herculean efforts to generate zero Covid in their own country, has learned at government level that it is not going to be possible to use genetically engineered infectious agents as war weapons in the future.

    Because they know it will be impossible to stop the infections coming right back at them and striking them down too.

    For that lesson, we should be grateful to China. We can all sleep a little bit sounder.

  97. robertkknight says:

    Despite the widespread use of email and other assorted forms of electronic data storage, I recon the Scots legal system is still the UK’s largest single consumer of brown envelopes…

  98. Anton Decadent says:

    I signed the petition and it suggested contacting my MP to let them know that I had done so but it is Alison Thewliss and to tell the truth I am not sure if that is the transwoman who is my local councillor.

  99. David Hannah says:


    “Lady Dorrian and the two most recent lord Advocates have made the legal profession and courts in Scotland look like a mockery of justice.”

    We can’t thank Sturgeon for that. She appointed Dorothy Bain, who wants to abolish juries in rape trials with Lady Dorian.

    It’s why Nicola Sturgeon appointed her.

    Instead of better qualified pro-Independence KCs.

    Quite simply.

    We know Nicola Sturgeon hates men. Including the husband living in the showroom “she can’t speak for.”

    We know this to be true, when during a photo shoot as vogue, magazine selfie cover girl – she all about the image.

    We know she hates men, when she said she wished to “never shake another man’s hand again.”

    We know Sturgeon hated Alex Salmond because he believed in Independence. That’s why she send Dorothy Bain to the Supreme court to cancel Scotland as a nation and erase our right to exist up dead alley way for her section 30 begging letter.

    And we also know she hates men, with her demented smears and Innuendos, rwtrialling Alex Salmond in covid press briefings.

    In fact we know Nicola hates freedom like Lady Dorian and Dorothy Bain.

    We know this to be true, when she locked us away for 2 years during covid 19.

    And then deleted all her WhatsApp messages…

    I can’t recall. Classic Nicola Sturgeon. The women she’s surrounded herself with are awful at their jobs as she is. That’s the truth.

    Thanks Mia.

  100. David Hannah says:

    I don’t know about you guys.

    But I want to read the 14,000 deleted whatsapp messages during covid 19. Which Nicola Sturgeon claims to know nothing about.

    I want to hear what the Vietnam whatsapp messages said. You know the group that Woman H helped to create according to the secret court report that no one wants you to know about. With journalists being jailed.

    The secret vietnam whatsapp messages that David Davis said he has in his possession. I hope he reads them out.

    So Scotland can be free of the cabal once and for all.

    We’ve suffered enough with Sturgeon and her ilk.

  101. David Hannah says:

    Looks like Dorothy Bain must be making lots of money being the lawyer in the gender reform bollocks challenge of self destruction.

    It’s already cost £232,000. Unfortunately SNP minister’s think they can spend our money on anything they want except what matters to us.

    It’s horrible what they’ve done to our country. The bill should be send to Nicola Sturgeon. She’ll have to sell the getaway safe house in Portugal, or the secret yachting villa that she visited during covid 19. She thinks Joe bloggs doesn’t catch on to these things.

    Unfortunately. We do.

  102. David Hannah says:

    T*he secret house in the yaucting town that Nicola visited during covid 19. When she did her press briefing from the broom cupboard.

    Breaking her own brutal authoritarianism laws. One rule for Nicola Sturgeon.

    The other rules for freedom of the Scottish public.

    Anyway good night.

  103. Derek says:


  104. John McGregor says:

    A Deviants charter

  105. Muscleguy says:

    “assigned to them at birth”

    The language of TRAs and biologically ignorant. Your sex is DETERMINED at conception. To pretend otherwise is to out yourself as biologically ignorant or worse using PC language to pretend otherwise.

    I can see this being a point of appeal. It is clearly unsustainable as a matter of fact.

  106. Stuart MacKay says:

    So, the philosophical basis of “I think, therefore I am and you are oppressing me if you say or think otherwise” that is currently sweeping the First World and is especially virulent in Anglo-Saxon / Germanic countries is going to be completely upended by a tiny judge, in tiny court, in a tiny country. Well, guess again.

    The political/social climate will dominate so the legal system will have to find some way of accommodating that, probably by damaging it’s credibility even further. The Conservatives are never going to allow the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to be repealed. It simply generates too many votes.

    Wake up. The world can stay insane longer than you can stay sane.

  107. Captain Yossarian says:

    George – I understand this subject is of very limited interest to most but the “as-built design check” I was speaking about a few days ago has recently been requested by Police Scotland who have issued an incident number. So, there is potential criminality involved.

  108. Den says:

    You know what is insane? The SNP announces the immigration prospectus for an independent Scotland wtf !!!! Was a housing crisis not declared in our capital city the day before? They have not one brain cell in the entire government that would go ahead with this announcement on the back of ECCS declaration. Insane in the brain.

  109. Michael Laing says:

    @ Muscleguy at 7:52 am:

    “assigned to them at birth”

    I’ve just signed-on with a new GP practice and the application form included numerous questions about woke-related issues, including, ‘Is your gender the same as that assigned to you at birth?’. It made my blood boil and it was a struggle for me not to rip up and bin the form there and then. If doctors, of all people, don’t understand that gender is a meaningless artificial construct, what hope is there for the rest of us?

  110. Michael Laing says:

    @ Den at 9.16am:

    Do you not think that everything the SNP is doing is deliberately intended to damage Scotland, wreck the SNP and – as the enemies of independence must hope – destroy support for independence? I can’t believe that all that’s happening is just mere accident or incompetence. I’m certain the SNP is under the control of agents and infiltrators.

  111. Republicofscotland says:

    On BRICS

    One of the primary benefits of BRICS is enhanced economic cooperation and trade among member countries. BRICS nations represent a significant portion of the world’s population and GDP. By promoting trade facilitation, reducing trade barriers, and establishing preferential trade agreements, BRICS fosters increased commerce and investment opportunities within the bloc. This leads to expanded markets for goods and services, stimulating economic growth and job creation.

    An indy Scotland would be mad not to join the worlds largest trade market.

  112. Graf Midgehunter says:

    “assigned to them at birth”

    So after a birth, the midwifes, nurses and doctors get together over a cup of tea to decide what sex the baby gets.

    Maybe they’ve had too many males over the last month so they need to smooth out the difference by “assigning” all births for the next two weeks to females…!

    Do they have Excel charts on the blackboard so that they “know” which sex.. oops silly me.. which gender is the flavour of the month..?

    What if they get it wrong and the answer is binary, it fcks up the statistics.

    Could biology maybe help out here..?

  113. Oneliner says:

    John Main.

    Re your little mathematics problem. Just factor in CI (counterintuitive) and everything false into place. The differential becomes integral and the LHS will always equal the RHS.

    Don’t get me started on bending moments.

  114. Den says:

    @michael Laing, I just think they are fuckin stupid.. I honestly believe this is all of the SNPs own making , but I can see why people would think that the dark arts of MI5 are in play here. It’s that preposterous !!

  115. Stravaiger says:

    Regarding “assigned to them at birth”, this is trickier than you might expect, and there is good reason for it.

    A child is assigned a gender at birth on the basis of its external genitalia. The problem is, a significant portion of babies are born with ambiguous genitalia and it is not uncommon for that assignment to be at odds with their actual gender, which is determined by their chromosomes. The issue is, that a person’s chromosomes might never actually be checked. Even then, not all people have either XX (female) or XY (male) chromosomes, a rare few have XXY or XYY combinations.

    Biologically speaking, if you have one or more Y chromosomes, you are male, otherwise you are female, but this is not how gender is assigned at birth.

    An example of someone who was assigned a gender at birth which is at odds with their chromosomal gender is Lady Colin Campbell.

  116. Stoker says:

    Normally i’d put something like this on ‘Off Topic’ but i can’t even find the thing. Anyway, this btl thread went off topic long long ago.

    As a music lover i came across this list of banned songs and found it interesting so i’m posting it here for all the Wingers who love their music. Enjoy!

  117. A Scot Abroad says:


    the GDP of the BRICS countries is around 10% of world total GDP, and is flatlining as Russia and South Africa collapse, Brazil stagnates, and China exhibits weak growth. By contrast, the GDP of the EU is nearly 70% larger. The GDP of the countries on the Atlantic rim is around 40% of global GDP, and the GDP of the CPTPP partnership projected to reach the same level by 2035.

    There’s hardly any trade between BRICS nations as it is, less around 10% of Russia’s energy to China, and 5% to India.

    China and India are more likely to go to war with each other than to sign a trade deal. Both countries ignore international laws and treaties and are rip off merchants.

    iScotland would be mad to try to join BRICS.

  118. Ruby says:

    moixx says:

    Exactly moixx

    I think it’s been a mistake to have focused so much on Sturgeon’s self id when the GRA2004 permits self-id in demanding

    an applicant:
    has lived in the acquired gender throughout the period of two years ending with the date on which the application is made

    It doesn’t say a minimum of two years so a man can be ‘legally’ living as a woman for however long he likes.

    You can’t chuck Eddie Izzard out of the ladies loo he’s just ‘living as a woman’ until the day he applies for his GRC.

    We don’t just need rid of the GRA 2004 we also need ‘woman face’ to become a hate crime, maybe one of the new misogynistic hate crimes.

  119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Muscleguy at 7:52 am.

    You quoted and typed,

    ““assigned to them at birth”

    The language of TRAs and biologically ignorant. Your sex is DETERMINED at conception. To pretend otherwise is to out yourself as biologically ignorant or worse using PC language to pretend otherwise.”

    Totally agree. I make the point of ‘conception not birth’ whenever I am talking about this with anyone.

    Our world has gone crazy with ‘pseudo-facts’.

  120. Gordon says:

    @ ASA 11.23

    the GDP of the BRICS countries is around 10% of world total GDP, and is flatlining as Russia and South Africa collapse,

    According to the IMF, the bloc will collectively account for 32.1 percent of global GDP this year. That's up from just 16.9 percent in 1995 and more than the G7's share of 29.9 percent.22 Aug 2023


    I wonder who is correct?

  121. Lorna Campbell says:

    Stravaiger: the number of people assigned the wrong gender at birth are not that many and they could never be called ‘trans’ because they always – but always – have a chromosomal sex, either male or female. Something went wrong in the womb. The way that people with this condition have been used by the ‘trans’ lobby is shocking and disgusting. Not always, but often, inter-sex conditions (DSDs) may be treated by surgery/hormones later in life – usually puberty, as this is usually when the condition is discovered when a womb and ovaries are missing, so no periods, or when the testes are still inside the individual and can cause medical problems. No one can change sex. It is both a physical and biological impossibility. If it were so easy, two million female foetuses in China and India combined, per annum, would not be aborted in favour of male children, leaving whole areas of both countries tries with no females, simply creating problems for the future. The hatred of females, for their sex, is endemic, and the ‘trans’ movement is just another manifestation of this world-wide psychosis.

  122. Confused says:

    A county has interests, not friends and enemies.

    ASA – why do you lie so much?

    IMF numbers, with a picture so fuckwitted lying r3t4rds like you can grok it.

    ASA – why do you lie so badly? And so often?

    Is there some mental switch broken in that lump of concrete you call a brain?

    This is weak, partisan, drivel; I say shit I want to be true because of my unionist cuckoldry.

    WTF did they teach you in that mickey mouse war college education? How to turn on the radio; which end goes bang? Whether or not the queen’s regulations allow you to duck when a shell is incoming?

    – oh, I know – what fork to use with a game bird and which way to pass the port.

    Did they give you Mackinder, the grand chessboard, any of that? Did you ever ask yourself questions like – why did Britain (and “germany”) fight france in one century, then fighty germany with france, in the next?

    China and rushya have no chance of going to war since they have integrated their economies. The reason for BRICS is that the USA has been getting a free ride off the world ever since Bretton Woods and people are sick of it; it’s a scam – you print up dollars and people hand over real wealth (or a carrier battle group appears) – at least there was some honesty when the gold standard was around.

    FYI the combined GDP of BRICS countries is about the same as the western countries.

    The situation is actually a lot worse for the US; you see GDP is “the real economy” (sort of) but not every dollar of that is the same – the Chinese have all the manufacturing, the russkis have the raw materials – the USA went neoliberal, at base it still makes weapons but it sells debt, it punts paper (the trading volume of which is 300 times the real economy). If people “don’t need our paper” anymore, they are fucked, even worse, if all the world’s dollars go back to the US all together, it will crash.

    I would ask the war college for a refund.

  123. James says:


    Ho ho, well said, sir. They don’t like it up ’em! lol

  124. Red says:

    A Scot Abroad says:
    3 November, 2023 at 11:23 am

    the GDP of the BRICS countries is around 10% of world total GDP, and is flatlining as Russia and South Africa collapse, Brazil stagnates, and China exhibits weak growth. By contrast, the GDP of the EU is nearly 70% larger. The GDP of the countries on the Atlantic rim is around 40% of global GDP, and the GDP of the CPTPP partnership projected to reach the same level by 2035.

    I usually just skim right past your “contributions” but the share of global GDP generated by BRICS economies is now over 30% and rising.

    The EU’s share of global GDP is under 15% and falling.

    If you can’t even get simple numbers right, is there any point in reading the rest of your thoughts? (No)

  125. David Hannah says:

    It’s time that our Scottish Lawyers grew a spine and stood up to Lady Dorian.

    Tell her. It’s time. For Male. Me Too.

    “Stick your Juryless trials up your arse. Mam.

    And tell your pal in the clown office. To ram her Gender self ID rapists charter as well.”

    Scotland’s men will be heard. It’s time for male Me Too.

    And we won’t be putting on women’s clothes for preferential treatment either.

    We demand equal rights. No to Lady Dorian’s corrupted jury hating bill. When releases rapists herself convicted by juries.

    And no to gender self ID rapists charters. Scotland says No.

  126. Neil Singleton says:

    I’ll go with the irrefutable and expert opinion of Lord Robert Winston, the foremost geneticist of this (any any other) generation, Emeritus Professor of Fertility Studies etc. etc.. He states unequivocally that “a man cannot become a woman and a woman cannot become a man.”
    End of.

  127. Johnlm says:

    World GDP – c.96 trillion USD

    BRICS GDP – c.30 trillion USD – still being built and restrained by sanctions

    G7 GDP – c.45 trillion USD – before the coming financial collapse

    I sense anxiety among the Morris dancers

  128. Lorna Campbell says:

    Chas: most transsexuals/transvestites, whatever you want to call them are not – emphatically not – gay men. The vast majority are heterosexual autogynephiles and fetishists. Some definitely are what is called ‘feminine gay men’, and it is believed that many of today’s ‘transing’ male youths are in this category and are being sent to clinics to be ‘transed’.

    So many people have entirely the wrong perception about the ‘trans’ phenomenon. The vast majority are heterosexual men who are intact, having had no surgery at all, and many having had no hormone treatment either. That was the point of my first post: this movement is a men’s ‘sexual rights’ movement, fiercely steeped in misogyny and driven by ever-more violent and female-hating and humiliating porn. For anyone who doubts this, please access REDUXX on-line and find out the truth about what this is.

    I keep saying: we cannot afford to feel sorry for anyone in this movement. By doing so, we let them in and, when they get in, they want more and more and more. They are all bad actors. All of them. If it is not all females and female spaces they want access to, by stealth, it is children, as the paedophiles have latched on to this movement, too. Even the best of them, the old school transsexuals who have had surgery and who offer no real threat, still mostly access female spaces and force us to accept unreality and delusion. Do not misunderstand: I don’t want them rooted out of society. I want them to admit what they are so that we can expose this movement for what it is before it is too late. Right now, there is an embargo on admitting that this is wholly sexually-driven. That needs to be eliminated so that light can be shone on the truth of this movement.

  129. Merganser says:

    There is a good article by The Ferret on deletion of WhatsApp messages by the Scottish Government and officials.

    The guidance which should have been followed means that any relevant information should have been transcribed into a different format before deletion, so everything should be available if people have followed the rules.

    Don’t hold your breath.

  130. Ruby says:

    GRC is a misnomer

    It should be SRC Sex Recognition Certificate

    This certificate proves that this man is now a woman.

    Signed: The UK Government.

  131. Lee Floyd says:

    I’ve said it before; I’ll say it again – as an Englishman, we should recognise that in the main, the btl posters on this site are a cut above. I’m not being sarcastic – they really are; lucid, coherent, witty. Other sites tend to degenerate into hate fests of partisan nonsense.
    On that, though, I would suggest that posters who believe that Sturgeon is an MI5 plant should go and lie down. We don’t need complexity and conspiracy theories to explain her and the SNP as a whole. A legitimate political party gone very wrong having elected individuals with very flawed characters.

  132. A Scot Abroad says:

    Data from the World Bank for 2021. All data in $US.

    GDP Brazil 1.609 trillion
    GDP Roossia 1.779 trillion
    GDP India 3.176 trillion
    GDP China 17.73 trillion
    GDP South Arica 0.419 trillion

    Total BRICS 24.713 trillion

    World GDP: 96.3 trillion.

    24.713/96.3 = 25.66%.

    But that’s not the real story. If you get the GDP per capita figures, which measures market size, the vast populations of very poor people in the 5 countries reduces the purchasing power figure to about 11% of global purchasing power.

    Scotland has nothing much that the BRICS would want to trade with. Nobody in the BRICS is interested in Scottish energy: it’s more expensive than Roosia’s. Energy expertise centred in Aberdeen is sanctioned and cannot be deployed to the R place. Whisky and tourism are going to cut it. Fish? You might sell a few trawler loads. What else is there?

    The only reason the BRICS would even contemplate letting Scotland join is so that work and education visas to Scotland can be obtained. India is lookinf for 10 million visas a year for the main U.K. trade deal: they’d look for a million from iScotland. China has over a million students studying in Europe: they’d want 50,000 Scottish places. Has Scotland got the accommodation for well over a million extra people, none of whom really care about Scotland as a culture?

    BRICS is a poor choice for iScotland. No country can be in the EU and the BRICS, or NAFTA and the BRICS, or CPTPP and the BRICS.

  133. Muscleguy says:

    You are talking about gender not sex. Stop conflating the two. Gender is just a secular version of the soul which cannot be shown to exist.

    Genitalia themselves are almost never ambiguous the term relates to which sex the bearer is not the genitalia. These days we can gene test babies to work it out. People are either Male or Female regardless of their GDSDs.

    Yours a Biomedical PhD with Developmental Biology and Molecular Genetics experience. Take me on in your peri.

  134. Stoker says:

    “The Ministry of Defence won’t give its reasons for failing to release annual assessments of the safety of nuclear weapons on the Clyde so as not to “prejudice relations between the UK and Scottish governments”.”

    From April 2020.

    LOL! Is that another way of saying we don’t want to give the pro-indy movement more ammo?

  135. twathater says:

    Lots of celebrities must be happy about this assigned at birth pish it will save them a lot of money , instead of having to engage in ways and means of deliberating the sexual outcome of their babies they can just slip the midwife a couple of quid and she or he or it will just assign the baby whatever sex they want the baby to be and bobs yer aunty or uncle whatever floats yer boat
    I am pretty sure there was an article about some famous footballer who was DESPERATE for a knighthood and his skinny wife who engaged in some really expensive undertakings to pick the sex of their unborn

    Assigned at birth, it makes dolly the sheep want to be assigned as a UNICORN, FUCKING ROASTERS

  136. Johnlm says:

    25% = 10% in Norfolk. Lol

    Endlessly, making stuff up.

  137. Lorna Campbell says:

    Ruby: well said. Woman face ought to be treated in the same way as black face. It is grossly insulting. I don’t think that black face is actually a hate crime, but it is, by convention, just like female spaces, etc. in that it is not the done thing. Only a few short years ago, people understood that breaching boundaries was a no-go area, but many do it now for kicks and to gain access to forbidden territory and people. None of this is accidental. It was all planned. Anyone in doubt, read the Denton’s Document. These ‘trans’ people, their activists and the silly young women who support against their own best interests all know perfectly well what a woman is, and what a man is. If everyone was taken in by the hulking brutes in crimplene, the ‘trans’ men, in the interests of equality (or should that be equity?) would be in male prisons, and other spaces and sports, etc. They are not, so the charade of men being women stands alone, and this is what this movement is about in its entirety: men’s ‘sexual rights’, with the females and children being mere shields. The people who espoused Queer Theory and post modernism almost all displayed an interest in young, pre pubescent boys.

  138. President Xiden says:


  139. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I have given this subject some thought and I conclude there is too much madness going around at the present time.

    I have opined previously this matter could be resolved by cutting off the tackle from any man who identifies as a woman.

    The process should take place immediately at the point the bearded one realises that he thinks he is a lady.

    I think that would reduce the madness by a large degree and we could get back to worrying about the 3rd word war or the return of Scottish Labour.

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