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Wings Over Scotland

A man hears what he wants to hear

Posted on June 16, 2023 by

This quote:

Does not say this:

No matter how much we’re all desperate for a story.

Humza Yousaf has clearly learned one thing from Nicola Sturgeon – the delicate art of saying meaningless things in the full knowledge that other people will interpret them to mean something far more significant.

Her high point was the nonsense she trotted out for a few months about “preparing the legislation to enable another independence referendum” or similar (it’s half past 10 on Friday night, we can’t be bothered finding the exact quote). But as we’ve pointed out, that’s a bit like building a shelf for your Booker Prize awards when you haven’t got the slightest intention of writing a book.

You’re not lying as such, you may very well have actually built the shelf, but you’re deliberately and knowingly giving people a false impression because you know they’ll read more into than is actually there, because they really WANT you to have said something else, because you’ve let them down so many times they can’t believe you’d be letting them down THIS time too.

“Contesting the election on independence” could mean anything, and therefore means nothing. If your manifesto says “We will regard winning most seats in this election as a mandate for a referendum”, that’s contesting the election on independence. If you’re “the party of independence” then a vote for you is “a vote for independence” no matter what your specific policies might be.

Now, it may be that next weekend Yousaf DOES back the de-facto referendum policy. Reverting to the weak-kneed “beg for a Section 30 again” routine might finally turn his party properly mutinous. But he certainly hasn’t said that tonight.

“I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises.”

Yeah, we know how you feel, lads.

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0 to “A man hears what he wants to hear”

  1. Ted

    Why would Yousaf back a “de-facto” referendum policy just when the SNP is about to get hammered by the Labour Party? If every vote for the SNP was supposed to be a vote for independence, what would we call all those votes for other parties? Especially if one of those parties is about to trounce the SNP.

  2. blackhack

    I’ve given up….I’m 70 years old and I’ll never see independence.
    All those wasted years of convincing others to vote SNP.
    What a waste of all those years and membership payments, all for nothing… 🙁

  3. Ian Brotherhood

    Aye, the Dundee gig will be interesting.

    WGD will say the Tories are really bad and Humza will announce he’s joining Labour.

    Who’s next?

  4. Breastplate

    Poor old Yousless, the ghost of SNP future has shown him the writing on the wall and he’s wondering how to keep the gravy train on the rails for a bit longer.

    No talk at all of working with other independence parties, apparently voting for other independence parties won’t count as a vote for self determination, it has to be the SNP or nothing.

    I’m guessing that’s probably not the right way to go about convincing people you are serious about the matter of Scotland’s sovereignty.

  5. President Xiden

    Vote Hutchie Grammar. You know it makes sense ( to all the working families in Scotland)

  6. AnneDon

    Unless they state that a vote for them is a mandate to NEGOTIATE independence, and work with other pro-indy groups, I will not believe any of the spin. The thread my SNP vote is hanging by is the fact that Joanne Cherry is my MP.

    And, tbh, if ALBA or the ISP stand in my constituency in the next general election, I’m likely to vote for them.

    There’s no chance I’ll vote SNP in Holyrood elections or local govt elections. I spoilt my last local election ballot paper for the first time in my life, and I’ll do it as often as I have to.

  7. North chiel

    It would appear to me that Yousaf has seen the recent polls ( with support for the SNP plummeting including the trouncing in the Bellshill local election), whilst simoultaneously support for independence remains consistently above 50 pc holding steady or marginally increasing . Consequently, my interpretation is that the SNP will pull the usual stunt of “ campaigning “ for Independence and thereafter reverting to type and kicking the can down the road as per usual . It appears to me that none of the SNP “ administration “ have the vision, planning ability/ strategy or guts to prosecute & deliver independence . They can’t see past the “ end of their noses” , and that is epitomised by their so called former “ leader”

  8. Ian Brotherhood

    Serious Q:

    Do we have any idea who is writing the FM’s speeches these days?

  9. qwertyfiable

    He hasn’t learned how to create distance between himself and his predecessors. Crazy to watch Humza and the SNP ignoring their own best interests.
    I doubt anyone in politics would have seen a temporary suspension of Nicola Sturgeon as an unreasonable course of action to take. She’s innocent anyway, right?

  10. PacMan

    Midnight challenge:

    Take a WGD article. Copy and paste it to a Word document. Click on Search and Replace. Replace SNP with Labour and independence with social justice.

    Take that WGD article into ChatGPT and it will tell you that is written by a Labour activist.

  11. Jockanese Wind Talker


    I have squandered my resistance
    For a pocketful of mumbles
    Such are promises
    All lies and jest
    Still a man hears what he wants to hear
    And disregards the rest

    Less and less of us “disregarding the rest” (Margaret Ferrier witch hunt, missing £600k, protection of inner circle criminals, DevoMax, GRR, Giving away our renewables for peanuts, Salmond stitch up, Trials without Juries, giving the Greens Ministerial positions ad nauseum.

    You do have an eclectic taste in music Rev.

  12. A Scot Abroad

    And still nobody at all with an actual plan for Indy.

    Absolutely fucking useless. All of you Indy supporters.

  13. Robert Louis

    Can none of those SNP MSPs see that they are literally consigning their own careers and the SNP to the dustbin of Scottish politics, by refusing to just do what they were elected to do – get us independence.

    Years and years of procrastination and dithering. Golden opportunities wasted, and for what?? So some SNP diddies could carry on milking the parliament gravy train.

    What a bretinous wreck the SNP has become. What an utter disgrace. Still, to this very day, trying to further deceive independence supporters, with pseudo ‘promises.

    But you are right, Revstu, with that music choice. The line
    “Still a man hears what he wants to hear
    And disregards the rest”

    There will be some in the Caird hall next week, who will do just that, and clap happily along.’ Indy is coming, they will say – aye and pigs will fly.

    The SNP, the ‘avoid independence at all costs because we like our MSP salaries, party. Cowards and charlatans, every single one.

  14. Breeks

    blackhack says:
    16 June, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    I’ve given up….I’m 70 years old and I’ll never see independence.
    All those wasted years of convincing others to vote SNP.
    What a waste of all those years and membership payments, all for nothing…

    There is quite a difference despising these frauds and grifters, and actually giving up on Scotland.

    I’ve been seething with rage since 2016 when that Sturgeon creature squandered Scotland’s Independence when it was right there in the palm of our hands. Had I the power, I’d have jailed her as a betrayer of Scotland, or stipped her of Scottish citizenship and exiled her in perpetuity.

    No nation has suffered more from treachery and ("Tractor" - Ed)ous individuals than Scotland, yet as people, we seem to have grown pretty toothless, or maybe it’s spineless, when it comes to rooting the fkers out.

    Our Constitution declares that “Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King…”

    Was Sturgeon driven out as our enemy? Were any of those treacherous wanks in 1707 driven out as our enemies? How many of the other spineless gravy slurpers are enemies of Scotland?

    There should be more consequence to this litany of incompetance and feckless betrayal. Waiting for an election to boot these fkers out seems a wholly inadequate response.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that Scotland is a compassionate nation. I believe it always was. You see it in the detail of us. But as the adage goes; you need to go through the bad times to let you fully appreciate the good. Currently we are dulled, and we Scots need to revisit our redoubtably less compassionate side, and bring this shower of tossers who routinely scam the Scottish people to book. We’ve been far too accommodating of failure and betrayal, and for far too long.

    They’re turning us into hollowed out non-people, like the Ascot Hat, a “Proud-Scot-but,” who lauds what it is to be British, just as his masters expect, and despises everything that it means to actually be a Scot. And then this “Cole-Hamilton-in-a-kilt” type calls us the fools… Poor chap. I imagine all the mirrors in his house must be broken.

    I will never, ever give up on Scotland. If I am starved, broken in body, imprisoned in my own dank and colourless misery, no matter what lightless corner I find myself, I have inside me the eternal warmth and golden glow emanating from my sovereign Scot status. A thing that is mine, ours, and which defeats the bastards and denies them possession of everything. They cannot take it. They cannot have it. Ever.

    While I have breath in my body, Scotland only requires, “…but 100 99 of us left alive” for the Nation of Scotland to be constitutionally quorate and sovereign.

    Dont get sad Blackhack. Rise. Rise and be angry. Then we only require 98.

  15. Geoff Anderson

    Independence support still high……time to harvest some votes……AGAIN!

  16. Robert Louis

    Breeks at 0659am,

    What an excellent choice of words. This, in particular needs re-quoting;

    “I will never, ever give up on Scotland. If I am starved, broken in body, imprisoned in my own dank and colourless misery, no matter what lightless corner I find myself, I have inside me the eternal warmth and golden glow emanating from my sovereign Scot status. A thing that is mine, ours, and which defeats the bastards and denies them possession of everything. They cannot take it. They cannot have it. Ever.”

    So very, very true. If only the Scots parliament was filled with people with such sentiment in their hearts. I think you are right, though, OUR sovereignty, as sovereign Scots, is something the bastards can never take, no matter what.

    Many countries have gone through such troubles to free themselves of England’s colonial yoke. The same thing happened in Ireland, when parliamentarians were happy to ‘compromise’ for an easy life, and that lovely salary from England. So, it is with Scotland. Our task is to drive these Charlatans out of our Scots Parliament, as our enemies, and replace them with a leader who will assert our true sovereignty as Scots.

    Not one more minute to waste.

  17. Izzie

    What is the alternative Legal route to Independence?

  18. Ian

    I assume that those (damn few) MSP/MP’s that both actually want independence and have the ability to help progress Scotland into actual independence are only sticking with the SNP because they think it can be changed back to actually being a party of independence rather than using that word as an electioneering slogan. It can’t be too long now to establish whether that is proven beyond reasonable doubt, to be pointless.

    Blair changed Labour and not only hasn’t it gone back to what it was, it’s got worse, much worse.I could easily see the same happening with the SNP, but for one thing. Unlike rUK where there hasn’t and still isn’t an alternative to NewLabour, in Scotland there is an alternative to NewSNP. It’s led by the man who helped implement so many of the SNP top100 achievements that NewSNP boast about, who they fraudulently tried and failed to remove as a political threat, and who now speaks with great insight and common sense every time he is interviewed or addresses gatherings.

    The SNP gets more like NewLabour every day. SNP Voters are leaving the SNP and members too. Maybe very soon it’ll be time for those SNP MSP/MP’s who aren’t careerist chancers to make their choice of action too. Fighting to change the SNP from within was an admirable position to take. But as things stand within the SNP, sooner or later, those MSP/MP’s will have a decision to make if they want to have any relevance to Scotland’s future as an independent nation.

  19. johnlm

    @Ian Brotherhood 12.17am

    I got an email a couple of weeks ago telling me that my application for the job as the FM speech writer is still active.
    They apologise for the delay and asked me to respond if I want to be still considered.

  20. John Main

    North Chiel can see the fundamental problem.

    Seems to me few others on here can.

    Just as very few can see that the fraudulent process that made HY SNP leader also means he lacks legitimacy as FM. Who really thinks everybody is waiting with bated breath to hear what that charlatan is going to say next? Don’t make me laugh.

    To start a New Democratic campaign for Indy it is first necessary to get the old one out of the way. The obvious fact that the old one lacks legitimacy would be a formidable weapon in the hands of somebody who knew how to use it and had the guts to do so.

    Quite obviously, no such Scot exists.

  21. Ottomanboi

    «What is the alternative Legal route to Independence?»

    Legal, according to whom?
    The UK, the UN or the will of a Scottish simple majority?

  22. Beauvais

    If the NuSNP were serious about independence they would be very busy raising Scots to full consciousness and righteous ire over things like the plundering of our energy resources. Something the old, real SNP tried to do. These bad faith actors now just see the subject of independence as a language game that has to be played here and there in order to keep the pretence up, and keep their salaries coming in.

  23. douglas leighton

    I made a comment on the Anne Mclaughlin thread about the breathtaking ignorance of Blackman’s gender drivel that had caused a scornful reaction from J Cherry and Neale Hanvey.
    I have had a few twitter contretemps with obviously fully dosed members of the Sturgeon cult who refuse to accept the crumbling of their party and adopt a sulky peevishness when the SNP are criticised.
    They will never read WOS or entertain any critique.

    It is obviously a closed state of mind free of any troubling thoughts.

    It is genuinely very odd to me ,as I cannot imagine a state of mind so slavishly devoted to a person/party and so untroubled by any observations that counter the party dogma.

    I suggested in that comment that the SNP has captured the 2/3 of the population that never acquire a critical all the thickest people, being herded like sheep by the management of the cult.

    I say ‘management’ because it is painfully obvious that the leadership of the SNP have morphed into, or absorbed the managerialism of NuLabour (or Blairism if you prefer). The SNP have , in effect,become a marketing outfit.

    The authoritarian leanings of Blair have now hardened into the ‘extreme ‘state centrism’ of Starmer and the SNP has acquired a bunker mentality.

    Examples abound, but GRR and DRS were simply flawed attempts at legislation but SNP/GREENS refuse to accept responsibility and behave like children by blaming the ‘bad’ WM headteacher as if they did not know that devo is not independence and carries with it a burden of compliance to a higher authority, (and therefore requires adept politics that avoids giving the authority the opportunity to censure or discipline the naughty SNP child.

    Confrontation is meaningless posturing, or performance politics- like childish frustration at being denied their desired object.

    It is a very grievous situation for Scottish people because the independence cause is now homeless, electorally speaking. The ‘WGD medicine'( just suck up the cult medicine) is just too toxic for anyone not already captured by the SNP.

  24. 1971Thistle

    @Robert Louis

    Can none of those SNP MSPs see that they are literally consigning their own careers and the SNP to the dustbin of Scottish politics, by refusing to just do what they were elected to do – get us independence.

    They were consigned to the dustbin of Scottish some time ago; they’re just waiting for the bin men to come. Currently, they’re just trying to fill their boots while they still can.

  25. John Main


    You certainly missed your true calling.

    In ye olden times, outlaw perhaps.

    Today, Hollywood script writer.

    Anyways, I know it is highly unlikely you will take my suggestion in any way seriously, but I am going to make it anyway. Find another 99 who think like you. Find another 400 prepared to sub you sufficiently to keep body and soul together. Form a new party, or effectively take over Alba.

    There’s HR and WM elections coming up. Get your acts together.

    Somebody has to do it, so why not you? Hell, put some concrete, plausible suggestions for iScotland together and I promise to vote for you or your new party myself.

    One other thing. Make yourself electable by dropping the BRICS nonsense and tone down the EU love. Try to steer that middle course between passion and pragmatism.

    Support for Indy is supposedly on the rise. So the demand is there. We need new people to vote for. People who can inspire us to believe again.

  26. Jan Cowan

    Highly uplifting comment from Breeks. Thank you.

  27. Republicofscotland

    We must all bear in mind that Yousless said in all honesty and with a straight face during the SNP leadership contest hustings, that Nicola Sturgeon is the smartest person he knows, and if she couldn’t deliver Scottish independence NO ONE CAN.

    Right there and then Yousless laid his cards on the table that he CAN’T, or more like WON’T deliver Scottish independence, and everything else that he has said on delivering it after that revelation is mere rhetoric to fool the indy masses into voting for the SNP.

    The current SNP are NOT a party for Scottish independence, Sturgeon the betrayer duped us for years with carrot dangling, and now Yousless an ally of Sturgeon will do the exact same thing in order to get your votes.

    Vote Alba, Join Alba, get the SNP and the Greens out.

  28. Beauvais

    Labour’s Jackie Baillie has been made a Dame in that king eejit’s birthday honours.

    These titles are ludicrous. I can’t hear the term Dame without thinking of Damon Runyan.

  29. Mac

    Humza Twoface clearly recognizes that the SNP are about to get an electoral kicking and is using the de facto referendum as a shield to hide behind.

    It is a just another way to mug people yet again into voting SNP when it is the last thing they should be doing.

    For the umpteenth time they are just using the YES movement to save their own loathsome political skins.

    Man I despise them.

  30. Derek Rogers

    The legal route to independence is UDI.

  31. Stephen O'Brien

    A vote for SNP is a vote for the Loch Ness Monster Society. Are you a believer?

    IndyRef2 last sighted floating belly-up, heading out to sea. SNP manifestos, the stuff of legend. The return of IndyRef2 has the scientific world baffled. Resolute voters queuing up for a glimpse,

  32. Ottomanboi

    Legality is a matter of which side you are on.
    The British and Americans held the invasion of Iraq in 2003 to be legal.
    Big bullies will have their way regardless of «the law».

  33. John Main

    @Douglas Leighton 8:48

    “A scornful reaction”

    Yeah, these two “darlings” of the very small “sane” wing of the official Indy movement and Scottish government really earned their salaries, expenses and privileges that day.

    Maybes if they had circulated some petition calling for Oor Kirsty to be deselected, suspended or some such, we could extend them some respect.

    They would be quick enough to do that if Oor Kirsty or anybody else offended against one of the sacred truths they all pay lip service too, such as the hierarchy of victimhood.

    Such a shame that “grounded in reality” isn’t one of those sacred truths.

  34. Robert Hughes

    Breeks @ 6.59

    Even by your own consistently high standards , that is one of your best posts hermano mio .

    Articulate , cogent n unapologetically passionate . As Robert Louis says/implies …..if only we had pro-Independence reps with even a fraction of those qualities you possess in abundance we might find ourselves less constantly angry and frustrated . More importantly , we might have reason to believe we are moving steadfastly to our ultimate goal .

    There are good people in ALBA – whatever criticisms anyone may have of Alex Salmond ( I have a few myself ) his total commitment to the cause of Scottish Independence is beyond any doubt n is manifest in every word he says on the subject .

    Of course ,they are handicapped by a deliberate policy of exclusion by MSM and the increasingly paranoid bile directed at the them by the continuity-of-failure Party and their for-hire mercenary hacks .

    Still …..

    IMO ALBA would benefit from an influx of fresh faces at the top ( not necessarily new faces – my choice as leader would be someone like Eva Comrie : actually , it would be Eva ) a bit of judicious * rebranding/packaging * to put oceans of blue water between them n Nu SNP , and a lot more stating of honest truths re eg any future Ref Franchise , the continuing dilution of potential Indy support by , let’s say …South to North immigration and the issue of Immigration more generally , a commitment to hold referenda on contentious issues like an iScotland joining E.U. NATO . W.H.O ect . A forthright anti-Globalisation stance would also be very welcome

    Excellent post as per Stu , likewise choice of thematic musical commentary .

  35. Ronnie McNeill

    Breeks, 97.

  36. One_Scot

    There is no question in my mind what the best strategy is moving forward.

    Bring back Alex Salmond and get the job done. End of.

  37. dasBlimp

    blackhack says:
    16 June, 2023 at 11:13 pm
    I’ve given up….I’m 70 years old and I’ll never see independence.
    All those wasted years of convincing others to vote SNP.
    What a waste of all those years and membership payments, all for nothing… ?

    Saddest comment I have read here and it is oh so true. Listen up people. Scottish independence is dead, a festering foetus that never quite managed to slouch towards Caledonia to be born. Poor old Blackhack. Poor old us. It seems now that even our grandkids kids won’t ever see an iScotland. Ah well we can always take comfort and continue reading Che and Baird – If only we hadn’t been duped by those pesky English and their colonising ways. Oh God, why did you plant us next to them?

  38. Republicofscotland

    “The legal route to independence is UDI.”

    Derek Rogers.


    The laws of the country that another country or people want to secede from, have no bearing whatsoever on the people choosing to which way they want to secede.

    In other words UK laws have no power over Scots in how they choose to leave the union, our politicians deliberately give that power to Westminster and have done so for centuries.

  39. Derek Rogers

    Ottomanboi @ 9:15:
    Legality is a matter of which side you are on.

    Nonsense. Legality is a matter of what the law says, and UN law is clear that UDI is legal.

  40. Geri

    UDI after an election. No if’s, no buts, no referendum, no *I’ll think about it* No rerun & No wimpy barsteward to overturn it in exchange for a trinket.

    It’s the only way it’s going to happen.

    Countries recognise other countries by a declaration of independence. Then it’s out of the colonisers control who, in the case of the UK will be amongst the first or their citizens are sitting in the dark & Thier government are out of the UN security council.

    We need to stop backing fking cowards too cowardly to pull the trigger on UDI. Dumbza is not that person. He’s a Sturgeon sap, starstruck he is in power & wants to stay there forever.

    I despise everything about them & my family does too. They’re out at the next election. The YES movement needs to call its own conference & kick start a convention asap. The SNP are dead. That route is as dead as the section 30 pish we’ve all just swallowed for eight years.

  41. Izzie

    Derek @ 9.08 UDI I suggest that you Google (other search engines are available) Rhodesia Ian Smith.

  42. David Hannah

    Well done to Dame Jackie Baillie on her damehood from king Charlie.

    Nicola must be beeling. Ha ha ha ha.

  43. Geri

    More to the point, why did he give us so many morons who believe the best ppl to run our country & our resources is our neighbour next door! D’oh!

  44. dasBlimp

    Breeks says:
    16 June, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    Good stuff, Breeks. Now this is more like it! It’s the restart. I can feel it. Who would have thought that all that was needed to get Scottish independence back on the road is an anonymous post containing stirring words on a not-very widely-read forum.
    It’s coming. Stand firm. Have patience. It’s just a matter of time now… Is that? Oh no – sorry. Steady lads steady………….zzzzzzzz

  45. Dorothy Devine

    Thanks Breeks , I needed a wee lecture as i was feeling much like many. So old now that I can see little hope of my seeing independence but I will hope that the children and grandchildren of Scotland will enjoy the freedom of seeing it and applaud the successes and deal with the failures.

    There are strange folk abroad obviously with an active interest in spoiling this site and denying independence – makes one wonder why they frequent a pro indy site and don’t do something more worthwhile with their time and ‘obvious’ intellect.

  46. sarah

    Izzie, I don’t understand how you can be still asking this question about a “legal” route to independence. It has been answered a thousand times!

    Read Wings, read Craig Murray, read Salvo, read the UK case for Kosovo…

  47. Robert Hughes

    @ dasBlimp

    Muted applause for paraphrasing W.B Yeats – my equivalent is

    ” The best are full of passionate intensity ( see Breeks ) ; while the worse lack all conviction “.

    You’re completely wrong however . Scottish Independence is – emphatically – NOT dead . It’s * just * suffering from a chronic condition of malignant careeritis . This can , and will , be remedied .

    Our country has historically been in perilous circumstances – and endured . Just as it/we will survive and progress beyond the present difficulties and betrayal by the nominal * Party of Independence * .

    Giving-up is not an option . That would be the ultimate betrayal

  48. James

    Shift changeover time again.

  49. Mia

    “Nicola Sturgeon is the smartest person he knows, and if she couldn’t deliver Scottish independence NO ONE CAN”

    If Yousaf considers STurgeon the smartest person he knows, then he hasn’t been around much.

    She could have delivered an independence referendum every day since 8th May 2015 if she so wished. The problem is she never wanted to.

    Since late 2014, when support for independence after the fraudulent vow surpassed 50% and the SNP was on course to win by a landslide, her actions tell us she has endeavoured to stop independence from happening by keeping the yes movement on a tight leash and starving it politically.

    Not doubt continuity candidate Yousaf will continue the same brief.

    When the political fraud Sturgeon felt pressed to deliver something after 8 years of taking us for fools, then the unelected representative of the crown parachuted by Sturgeon to the middle of the Scottish executive proceeded to pish all over our democratic rights.

    She did this by having the crown, allegedly with limited political powers and in the form of England judges in an English court, abuse its power to defy the democratic will of the people of Scotland and decide on its own accord what political bills enter our fucking parliament.

    If this was not a blatant expression of absolute rule and raw colonialism in the middle of the 21st century, what is.

    Who instructed that action over the Lord Advocate? Was that Sturgeon or was the crown directly?

    Whoever was the “mastermind” behind that move, it was pure firefighting and damage limitation. The obvious reason why damage limitation was needed was that, should that bill had entered Holyrood and given the pro-indy majority of seats at Holryood, there could be only two possible negative outcomes for Sturgeon (and the crown):

    a) the bill would have to pass and the referendum would have to take place. Any direct block by the crown by refusing to add the royal seal to that bill after it was passed would represent a direct violation of Scotland’s Claim of Right and an invalidation of the Treaty of Union. At a time when 50% of Scotland is supporting independence, more and more people are against the monarchy and there are an awful lot of eyes looking like hawks at their minor violation of the treaty and Claim of Right to use it as an excuse to end it, such move would be incredibly stupid and self-defeating.

    b) Should the SNP or Greens not vote for the bill once it entered Scotland’s parliament, Sturgeon and Harvie/Slater would completely blow their cover: they would not longer be seen as supporting independence, but as what they actually are: closeted unionists actively working against it.

    This disgusting attempt to thwart Scotland’s expressed will, and pathetic attempt to distance the crown from this action by using an English court so the crown did not have to refuse to put the royal seal to the legislation, is in my personal view still a direct violation by the crown of Scotland’s Claim of Right. A Claim of Right, lets not forget, the present monarch swore to abide by.

    It is in my view still a violation of that Claim because the people of Scotland had already given many mandates, for the best part of FIVE YEARS to the SNP to pass that bill and deliver that referendum.

    This is allegedly a parliamentary democracy, therefore the crown has no business whatsoever blocking legislation from entering Scotland’s parliament nor blocking legislation after it passed. If the crown is doing that, this is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship, and Scotland is at all practical effects being treated as a colony.

    The crown can only get away with violating the Claim of Right if Scotland’s “representatives” keep turning a blind eye to it. At present, we all saw recently how other than Mr Macaskill and Mr Hanvey, none of the supine amoebas sitting under the SNP flag either in Holyrood or Westminster, had any intention or the will to do anything other than look the other way and let the crown’s and Westminster’s abuse to continue.

    From where I am standing, there is nothing smart about Sturgeon. Nothing. She is the biggest empty vessel Scotland’s politics have ever seen. She never used proper strategy or negotiation. Her tools were always a repetitive script full of soundites, a truckload of carrots, a fake PR persona and brute force which came from the unconditional support from the most useless and spineless SNP MPs and MSPs Holyrood and Westminter have seen, the continuous support and protection from the powers that be and of course, her using our taxpayers money to buy off the press. Any idiot can look successful with all that at their disposal.

    There is no doubt the powers that be have been helping her by overlooking the unalwful activities of her government, such as the unlawful complaints procedure tainted with bias used against Mr Salmond, her potential breaches of the ministerial code, and their active suppression of information by the COPFS to cover her corrupt arse and that of the perjurers. And let’s not even begin with her government’s incompetence regarding the ferries.

    Should Westminster really wanted this political fraud out of the SNP and the SGov, and she would have been ousted an awful long time ago.

    I doubt Yousaf is bothered about haemorrhaging seats at the next GE. In fact, I am of the opinion the last 9 years of dirty work by STurgeon had precisely that objective.

    Yousaf is her continuity candidate, so it is reasonable to assume his remit will be the exact same: help labour to take on those anti-union seats in the next GE what come may.

  50. Breastplate

    I suggest you read Craig Murray who has actual experience in this department.

    The reason we are not a fully fledged member of the international community is because of people like you supporting charlatans.
    We have the numbers for self determination, we don’t have the correct people in charge.
    We have a bunch of good for nothings gimping for Westminster.

    Have a good look at yourself, you’re on the wrong side of the fence regarding independence.

  51. Breastplate

    Breeks, well said.

  52. Republicofscotland

    Jackie Baillie get her reward for services to helping reinforce the union.

    “Scottish Labour deputy leader Jackie Baillie has been given a damehood in the King’s first Birthday Honours.

    The veteran politician receives the honour for political and public service and is understood to be the first sitting MSP at Holyrood to either be knighted or given a damehood – the female equivalent of the honour.”

  53. 100%Yes

    Crying wolf all the time is at some point going to bite you on the arse. For me that point was years ago and if the SNP don’t delivery at the next WM election that point I’m talking about be will enough for those left in the SNP come the next Holyrood election to have already walked.

    If a political party wipe out its opposition like the SNP did in Scotland and haven’t kept the people who supported them on side, then results like Bellshill will follow across the board and Bellshill should be a warning shot at the SNP, but they have become a party that’s just doesn’t listen then failure is all the SNP is ever going to see going forward.

    Humza seem so intent on pleasing Nicola Sturgeon and continuing as if Nicola Sturgeon was still FM, his tenure as FM will go down in history as a complete and utter failure with him being called the biggest fool Scotland has ever had.

    The SNP policy is we own Independence and no one else and you should only vote and donate to the SNP because we own Independence. More and more people are starting to see that it’s actually the SNP who’s blocking Independence.

    Alex Salmond policy on United Scotland on Independence is the right move but for me at some point Salmond is going to have to start attacking the SNP as the party least willing to put Independence 1st, 2nd, or 3rd so why is the SNP got Independence in their manifesto because this is whats going to have at the next Westminster election.

    I’m of the opinion if the SNP can’t work to secure Independence then lets destroy this party for good.

  54. willie

    Absolute time that Alex Salmond was brought back fully into play.

    The establishment and a rotten complicit Sturgeon tried to destroy him. They failed. But now folks very much see it as it was. An attempt to destroy a great Scottish statesman by getting him jailed and discredited on trumped up charges.

    Would the SNP have turned out as it did had Alex Salmond been in charge. Would the Scottish Government be as discredited as it is now. Would the independence vehicle have become the turncoat blocker that it became under Sturgeon.

    We all know the answer to that.

    Support for independence has not gone down. It has gone up whereas the SNP support is in collapse. But the SNP are not independence. They were under Salmond but not now.

    We don’t need the SNP in its present form. It is an impediment to independence. Let us all move on and high time Yousaf, Wishart, Smith, Blackman and all the others in the service of themselves and the pay of the establishment were gone,

    Bring back Salmond.

  55. John Main

    @Geri 9:47

    “The Yes movement needs to call its own conference”


    Getting a little tired of the endless clarion calls to action, followed by days of silence while the poster watches Netflix or empties the dishwasher.

    Plenty of people on here proclaiming the fires in their bellies. More “walking the walk” and less “talking the talk” would be a refreshing change.

    We all agree (I think) that Indy support is on the rise. Cometh the hour, cometh the man or woman, is supposed to be how it works in “normal” countries.

    We all agree (I think) that it’s time for new faces, new leaders and (please Almighty God), new ideas.

    And a plausible, feasible, understandable, sellable, plan.

  56. Helen Yates

    “We will regard winning most seats in this election as a mandate for a referendum”,

    I don’t want to hear that either, when they say “we will regard winning most seats as direction from the Scottish people to begin negotiations with Westminster on Scotland’s independence then and only then might I listen to them.

  57. Northcode

    Breeks @ 6:59am

    Powerful stuff, Breeks. And well said.

  58. Helen Yates

    “We will regard winning most seats in this election as a mandate for a referendum”,

    If they say “we will regard winning most seats as a direction from the Scottish people to begin negotiations with Westminster on Scotland’s independence then and only then might I even begin to think they are serious.

  59. Alf Baird

    Breastplate @ 10:22 am

    “We have the numbers for self determination, we don’t have the correct people in charge. We have a bunch of good for nothings gimping for Westminster.”

    That is the brutal and sickening reality. Scotland has two clear routes to independence now, today, neither of which are being acted upon by our national elected representative:

    1. Constitutionally, a majority of national elected representatives may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the UK treaty alliance, or;

    2. A nationalist elected Scottish government as an arm of the UK state may seek to have Scotland ‘Listed’ with the UN Decolonization Committee (C-24) in order to express the right of the Scottish people to self-determination of what is and remains a Non Self Governing Territory (NSGT) including the right of the people to independence – the UN would then be requested to Implement the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples as a fundamental and inalienable right of the Scottish people.

    The SNP MPs and MSPs have failed to do either of the above and have therefore fundamentally breached the trust of the Scottish people and nation.

  60. Iain More

    Crushing Defeat for the Brit Nat Wokist SNP at the Bellshill Council By-election in Glasgowon Thursday. Taxi for Youseless.

  61. Alf Baird

    John Main @ 10:54 am

    ““The Yes movement needs to call its own conference”

    The non political groups Salvo has an event on 2 July in Stirling, and SSRG a couple of weeks later in Dunfermline:

    I take it you will be in attendance?

  62. Ian Brotherhood

    @Johnlm (8.29) –

    I hope, for Humza’s sake, they get back to you soon – he needs someone, pronto.


  63. Breeks

    dasBlimp says:
    17 June, 2023 at 9:39 am

    “… Scottish independence is dead, a festering foetus that never quite managed to slouch towards Caledonia to be born.

    If that was true, then why are you actually here to honour us with your sparkling wit and company?

    If Scottish Independence was dead, the Unionist’s wouldn’t be peeing their pants about the mere possibility of Scotland holding a referendum. If Scottish Independence was dead, they’d be a forcing us to have a referendum, not subverting UK democracy to prevent one happening. So much confidence in winning eh? Tsk!

    If Scottish Independence was dead, the Unionist’s wouldn’t work themselves into a lather and go red in the face whenever the word “colonialism” is mentioned. They don’t like to see Scotland’s exploitation and mistreatment given a tangible yardstick you see. Makes it so terribly awkward to deny.

    Play the man, never the ball. That’s the way of the Unionist.

    Scottish Independence is dead is it? Dream on champ. Clearly, you know nothing.

  64. dasBlimp

    Breeks said on the 39th minute of the ninth hour on the 17th day of June in his follow-up post to his earlier call for all true Scotsmen to rally to the cause of independence

    “Independence is not dead!”

    Not so much a banger of a post but a whimper.

    Good. Hardly in the best of health though and I’ll wager a pfennig that you will be long gone before it is robust again. As will we all. Sorry to break the sad news to you. Switch on your telly and watch the proud Scotsmen in their fancy uniforms saluting and doffing their caps to the English King. Makes yer proud dunnit.

  65. Ottomanboi

    I give little credence to what that collection of self-serving assholes in New York think on any subject. I have a very good reason for that opinion.
    Your idea of what constitutes «law» on this planet is naïve. Law, in the anglo-saxon dominated world at least, is what the big guys say it is.
    A UDI Scotland would get short shrift. That is academic as Scotland lacks even the hint of the type of leadership with sufficient nerve to go for that option, yet.

  66. Ottomanboi

    For that pfennig, why do you bother posting on here?
    Time hanging heavy?

  67. dasBlimp

    Anglo Saxon dominated world??? Are you having a laugh?

  68. President Xiden (definitely not a would be dictator)

    Ian Brotherhood says “ Do we have any idea who is writing the FM’s speeches these days?”

    Billy Smart?

  69. A Scot Abroad

    God, this place gets more mental every day. UDI, now, is it?

    Barking mad. Away with the fairies. The important bits of the world, like the USA, Europe and most of the rest of the world would just blank an iScotland following a UDI.

    Big boys’ rules. That’s the thing that matters.

  70. Northcode

    Alf Baird

    As I’ve already said to you, Alf, your paper:

    Theoretical Case for Scottish Independence

    and your book, Doun Hauden, have awoken within me an interest in colonialism in general and Scotland’s condition as a victim of internal-colonisation in particular.

    It strikes me, as I’ve been finding out more, that of the numerous examples around the world of nations that have managed to escape their colonisers, not one was ever dissuaded in their fight for freedom by economic arguments predicting their financial doom.

    The reason for that is, I think, that they were already made poor by their oppressors. And not just financially poor, but culturally and intellectually and psychologically poor, too.

    It would seem that all those decolonised nations preferred to be poor and free rather than poor and enslaved.

    It would also seem that they all ended up doing much better economically after decolonisation anyway, despite the cries of the financial doom they would suffer – cries of doom that mostly came from their oppressors.

    So, for me, Scotland being a free and independent nation state is the only priority.

    And until us indigenous Scots achieve independence and our freedom nothing else matters.

    Scotland has so many valuable and plentiful resources it could hardly fail to become one of the richest small nations in the world even if it tried.

    But all the economic and financial plans for enriching us Scots can come after we dissolve the ‘union’.

    Because I’d rather be poor and free than poor and enslaved.

  71. John Main

    @Alf Baird 11:37

    Thanks for the link. That looks interesting.

    No promises about attending but I will certainly be interested in reading the results for the votes they take on the workshop presentations.

  72. douglas leighton

    John Main@9.19
    Your comment is borderline incoherent. You seem to be defending Blackman’s right to talk (about her)bollocks.
    I took the title of the post about Kirsty Blackman’s GENITALS to mean her bollocks, both her imaginary ones and her speech bollocks but that joke seems to have passed over your head.

    The remedy for Blackman being ridiculed is for her to cease her bollocks talk. If people laugh at her she might try to be more careful about what she says. Maybe she could afford to employ a copy editor to save her from such blunders.

    I actually did Blackman the courtesy of trying to parse her speech but it was apparent that not only had she made an egregious error of fact, but she had also made an utter hash of her language construction.It fell far below that one might expect of a well paid ‘professional’ whose job it is to express herself clearly. It really was not up to scratch.Mediocrity in action.

  73. James Che

    Alf Baird.

    A excellent post Breeks, and yes Scots are Compassionate an it holds us back.

    Alf I agree with you that Scotland was Colonised,

    All of us recognise why the trolls are here on a Scottish independence site “othering” Scottish voices, and applying the Colonial method of keeping the natives in their place, not only physically, but mentally as well, it displays that old Colonial mindset a inner fear that drives them to continuing a repeated advertisement that they still apply the colonial mind to natives,

    But here is where colonial minds insure the natives are kept ignorant, of laws and by imposing false laws on the natives. Relating a new history of circumstances to natives.the native peoples think this is real history and after a few generations believe the Colonisers history lessons without question,
    Mocking their efforts to escape.

    The problem for Scots is they still are in awe of the Coloniser, his version of history, and his imposed but false set of rules that are imported to their Countries nation,

    When All Scot realise it has all been lauded on a false history, and the Coloniser thinks it is humourous to outright tell the natives and the rest of the world that they are held as captives for hundreds of years because they are stupid,

    To stupid not to see or hear reality, they continue to believe the old Colonisers first “history lesson story”.

    I do not agree with you on believing that we are still captives today unless “you” wish to believe it is so, that as a captive you wish to believe the Colonisers version of history and you respond to the falsified history from that view point.
    You simply are reinforcing the mantra for the Coloniser,

    I believe Scotland was Colonised, and a Colonised people are afraid to stand alone for the first time so long that they so seek support else Where, grasping anyones hand whom recognises them or looks their way,

    But stop believing the false history fed the native in his maintained education and suddenly he is standing on his own two feet anyway,

    We are not in a treaty of union,

    That was the false history fed to the native Scot by the Coloniser and “you still” believe their version history events before your own,

    When Scottish people stop believing the colonisers fallacous history regards the treaty of union, you are a independent people, a free Country.

    And that can be stated to you to Breeks,

    You believe what you want to believe,

    Scotland was extinguished from the treaty of union more than 300 years past,
    You, me, we, us, have been a free independent Country for all that time, but Scottish minds have kept us tied and bound to behind the bars of the Colonisers version of history.

    And apparently we are still not ready to stanc on our own two feet and walk away.

  74. Scot

    People won’t vote for Yusef based on anything he says.
    Words won’t cut it anymore.

    People don’t believe he can govern.
    He and his team are just incompetent.

  75. John Main

    @Douglas Leighton 1:21

    My comment must have been completely incoherent for you to have reached the conclusion you did. Sorry.

    I was trying to register my disgust for Cherry and Hanvey. I want more than just scornful reactions from those over-paid, under-worked and over-privileged drones when one of their number spouts reality-denying mince on my taxes.

    Hope that is clearer.

  76. dasBlimp

    Nice but Dim says:
    Scotland was extinguished from the treaty of union more than 300 years past,
    You, me, we, us, have been a free independent Country for all that time, but Scottish minds have kept us tied and bound to behind the bars of the Colonisers version of history.

    That’s great news, Che. And all this time we’ve been talking about independence we could have been talking about what to do with our independence. Whodathunkit?

  77. John Main

    @Northcode 1:15

    “they all ended up doing much better”

    Naw. There can’t be many Scots unaware that some ex-colonies are now very much worse shitholes. One reason we Scots know this is because we see those who have fled these shitholes in our midst.


    Get yourself to the nearest polis station. They will help. Slavery is illegal and the full weight of the law will be on your side to set you free.

    A wee word of warning. Some Newish Scots are quite touchy about the historic slavery thing. They make take an extreme exception to your fraudulent appropriation of their genuine sense of grievance. I’d be careful, unless of course, you really are one of these modern-day slaves.

    But then, why do your owners permit you to be posting online?

  78. Derek Rogers

    @Republicofscotland 9:42 am:
    ‘The laws of the country that another country or people want to secede from, have no bearing whatsoever on the people choosing to which way they want to secede.’

    Absolutely right. Under UDI, the laws of the UK have no standing. It’s the rules of the UN that will apply.

  79. Derek Rogers

    @Izzie 9:47 am:
    ‘I suggest that you Google (other search engines are available) Rhodesia Ian Smith.’

    Rhodesia is only one example; successful UDI’s since then include Bangladesh, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, East Timor, Estonia, Guinea-Bissau, Latvia, Lithuania, Namibia, Northern Cyprus (Ottomanboi will be pleased about that!), Slovenia, and Uzbekistan.

  80. Derek Rogers

    @Ottomanboi 12:04 pm:
    ‘Law…is what the big guys say it is.’

    It certainly is, and the big guys in this case are the UN.

    ‘A UDI Scotland would get short shrift.’

    Not so. The UK is now despised in diplomatic circles, and the prevailing puzzlement is why Scotland hasn’t left yet. Most of the world will be delighted and supportive.

  81. Republicofscotland

    When Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia on 17 February 2008, the United Kingdom became one of the first countries to announce the official recognition of a sovereign Kosovo on 18 February 2008.

    Given that the UK recognises Kosovo, it is ludicrous for the same people to argue that for Scotland to do the same as Kosovo would be illegal.

    Scotland is one of the oldest countries in Europe, I doubt Scotland returning to its position before the union would raise many eyebrows outside of Washington and Westminster.

    The former wants to keep Scotland in the union to bolster the North Atlantic defensive arc, at the top of the arc is Iceland and at the bottom of the arc is Scotland, the latter wants to keep hold of Scotland to drain it of its wealth and resources

  82. John Main

    “The UK is now despised in diplomatic circles”

    Hoo’s that then? Diplomats and/or governments acting like flouncing, wee schoolgirls?

    I choose to believe diplomats act rationally on behalf of the governments and countries they represent. Weighing national interest and that.

    Tell you what though, if they really do act in accordance to their own personal prejudices, biases, likes and dislikes, what if the majority of them viscerally hate UDI? Or Jocks?

    Then iScotland will be despised in diplomatic circles.

    Maybes think before you post next time, Derek.

  83. James Che

    How do you even do UDI ?

    Once you realise that you have not been attached to that system of the fallacous UK since Scotlands Parliament was written out of the Great British parliamentary union in 1707 that was supposed to create a union, that failed to proceed as promised once ratified.

    Before you can become de- Colonised, or independent you have to de-Colonise and disassociate your minds from the old educational teaching of the Coloniser.

    Which is only a implanted false history to maintain control.

  84. James Che

    How do you even do UDI ?

    Once you realise that you have not been attached to that system of the fallacous UK since Scotlands Parliament was written out of the Great British parliamentary union in 1707 that was supposed to create a union, that failed to proceed as promised once ratified.

    Before you can become de- Colonised, or independent you have to de-Colonise and disassociate your minds from the old educational teachings of the Coloniser.
    Which is only a implanted false history to maintain control.

    And yet Scots still do not a accept the the UK parliament site in 2023 states to the world that Scotlands parliament was extinguished from the union in 1707.

    That is what is keeps Scotland begging for independence, their own Colonised minds, not that of their Country.

  85. dasBlimp

    …Or do what James Che does and disassociate your mind from reality.

  86. James Che

    Scotland would not be declaring modern day UDI from The great British parliament that never proceeded or actually materialised.

    It would confirming that Scotland has been independent since 1707.

    And that Westminsters parliament of England had been ruling Scotland under colonisation to a fallicous and hoax treaty of union since 1707.

    That is what would happen if we walked away. And started a genuine new Scottish parliament of our own now,
    All this would come out in the wash,
    the Westminster parliament would be in a complicated and defensive back foot against the UN and many other Countries,
    Because Westminster cannot state that ( if ) the Treaty articles in “their eyes” was genuine, and that a Scottish parliament was to be part of that treaty of the Union, Westminster itself now claims it extinguished the Scottish parliament from proceeding into that treaty.

    And Westminster choose people from Scotland to represent Scotland that were from a extinguished Scottish parliament.
    Etymology of historical events counts.

    Not one of Those very articles of the hoax treaty of union, prevent Scotland from opening a brand new Scottish parliament.
    It just cannot reopen the 1707 parliament in England that was extinguished from the treaty of union in England.

  87. Alf Baird

    Northcode @ 1:15 pm

    “So, for me, Scotland being a free and independent nation state is the only priority.”

    Aye, this is precisely what postcolonial theory tells us, that the most urgent priority is that of ‘freeing the people’. And as James Che notes, this includes freeing their ‘minds’. Which is why none of the colonizers institutions ‘are appropriate for the colonized’.

    As we know, Scots are hardly the only native people left holding a worthless violated treaty or duped by Imperial hoax and left to suffer the crime and consequence of colonialism. Thankfully the well-trod decolonization template provides us with a pathway to freedom, which requires a break with the system, not a compromise or ‘continuity’.

  88. James Che

    The first part of that hoax treaty claims the ” And forever after ” bit,

    Then immediately cancels Scotland out of that promise by the statement of extinguishing the Scottish parliament from that promise.including the monarchs proclamation,

    A extinguished 1707 Scottish parliament cannot be taken to Court anywhere,
    Not even for UDI.

    That is why we do not and must not do not (reopen ) that particular 1707 parliament in Scotland,
    Because it might/may be liable.

  89. Derek Rogers

    @John Main 2:48 pm:
    ‘I choose to believe diplomats act rationally on behalf of the governments and countries they represent…What if the majority of them viscerally hate UDI? Or Jocks?’

    They do act rationally. They despise the UK for ignoring the UN ruling on the Chagos Islanders (because they like UN rulings to be adhered to), and they despise it for leaving the EU (because they like beneficial alliances to be preserved). They don’t hate UDI, because the UN specifies UDI as a legitimate route to independence. And they don’t hate Jocks, because they know full well that Jocks live in a country that is strategically located, is rich in renewable energy, has more universities than any country of comparable population, and benefits from a skilled workforce and a thriving food-and-drink industry. Any rational diplomat will make an alliance with such a country.

  90. dasBlimp

    Time for your medication again James Che. Come along Alf and Northcode. I’ll show you how to make a nice hat from a sheet of baco-foil. What did you say Alf did to you, Northcode? Alf, you are a very naughty boy. if I ever catch you doing that again I’ll chop it off.

    Where did I go wrong. Sigh.

  91. James Che

    Aye DasBlimp, You’ re showing distinct classic signs of a coloniser trying to maintain the control of the colonised.
    Keep advertising your Faux Pas status,

  92. Northcode

    See the happy moron,
    He doesn’t give a damn,
    I wish I were a moron,
    My God! perhaps I am!

    Attributed to Dorothy Parker in 1929

    Dorothy Parker (1893 – 1967) was an American poet and writer based in New York.

    There’s a story (unconfirmed) that her editor at The New Yorker sent a telegram to Parker while she was on her honeymoon.

    The editor was reminding her of the deadline for an article she was meant to be writing.

    Parker sent one back saying:

    “I’ve been too fucking busy, and vice versa.”

    Which is a rare case of a figure called chiasmus – chiasmus implied, but not stated.

    Humans like symmetry. You leave a bunch of them next to an overgrown wild place for a week or two and you’ll come back to find an ornamental garden.

    Nature is not symmetrical and symmetry is not natural.

    When we make something symmetrical we tend to set up grand avenues with trees on either side so we can all plainly see the symmetry.

    And we like to carry that symmetry over to the words we say and write.

    Chiasmus is sort of like the palindrome, but much grander and often more obvious in the way it creates word symmetries, where the words of the first half are mirrored in the second.

    Tea for two and two for tea
    Me for you and you for me

    Those are probably the only lines anyone remembers from a musical that came out in 1925 called No, No, Nanette.

    Americans seem particularly fond of such verbal symmetries, and tend to elect anybody who can come up with a symmetrical sentence.

    Obama told his troops: “You stood up for America, now America must stand up for you.”

    The one before didn’t care “whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies.”

    Before that it was: “People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power,”

    Even those American politicians who tried for Presidency but never quite made it gave chiasmus a good go – because they wouldn’t even have been in the running if they hadn’t.

    Hillary Clinton tried for the White House with this effort: “In the end, the true test is not the speeches a president delivers, it’s whether the president delivers on the speeches.” Yawn. Now you know why she didn’t make President. Her chiasmus was rubbish.

    All of this goes back to JFK’s inauguration speech, which was loaded with chiasmus .

    With the Cold War at its lowest temperature for years, Kennedy told America that “Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.”

    His method was diplomatic: “Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate.”

    And most famously of all he told Americans: “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”

    Kennedy started the craze for chiasmus in American politics, but he himself had probably got the idea fae his faither.

    Joseph Kennedy is said to have come up with the phrase: “When the going gets tough, the tough get going.”

    Chiasmus is clever, but it’s not even slightly natural.

    Kennedy’s inauguration speech could never have been improvised. Chiasmus is the grand statement, it’s symmetry unbound, it’s the Great Pyramid of Giza.

    There is, though, a more subtle form called the grammatical chiasmus.

    It goes like this, adjective noun: noun adjective.

    The opening line “I see trees of green, red roses too” from the song “What a Wonderful World,” is plant colour: colour plant.

    The unwary might sing that line all day without noticing the chiasmus.

    Dr. Johnson wrote in “The Vanity of Human Wishes” about the world of pleasure-seekers who indulged in “By day the frolic, and the dance by night,”

    A schedule of 24-hour dancing and frolicking sounds tiring, but fun.

    You might have noticed that Johnson’s sentence runs time activity: activity time .

    It is possible to make things symmetrical without anybody really noticing- but only just.

    Coleridge did it in “Kubla Khan” when he dreamt of his “sunny pleasure-dome with caves of ice.”

    But that poem also contains the rarest, subtlest, strangest kind of chiasmus there is.

    It’s a variety of chiasmus that is as hard to spot in the wild as Bigfoot, and just as difficult to study, and it occurs in Coleridge’s great opening line:

    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan…

    Did you see it?

    It’s not a symmetry of grammar, or mirrored words; yet there is a reason why that line rolls off the tongue.

    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan

    It’s a chiasmus of vowels. I mean, how clever is that?

    So, chiasmus. Ask not what Scottish independence can do for you, but what you can do for Scottish independence.

  93. A Scot Abroad


    here’s some chiasmus for you about Scots Indy, pre and post declaration:

    “There’s nae fucking money, there’s nae fucking money”

  94. Saffron Robe

    Breeks says: “I will never, ever give up on Scotland.”

    I agree wholeheartedly, Breeks. Scottish independence is an a priori truth – it is immutable and remains equally true at any point in time. The conditions for independence do not precede independence but stem from it. The only important consideration is to become independent, not whether or not we should be independent, because an a prior truth is by its nature self-evident. I should no more have to persuade someone that independence is right than I should have to convince them that injustice is wrong!

  95. Northcode

    It seems clarification is required for the benefit of some folk who read my post describing the use of the rhetorical figure of speech, chiasmus,

    Repeating a phrase is not using a chiasmus figure. A chiasmus mirrors the first sentence or the first part of the phrase

    Otherwise it’s just…well, repeating a phrase. The ancients called this.. well, repeating a phrase.

  96. Paul Molloy

    Another Scottish Constitutional Convention is required, similar to before the Scottish Parliament was formed 1997. The only group on the right track to take this through is Salvo and the original Liberation group formed. All I see is political parties and other groups jumping on the coat tails of what Salvo had originally openly provided. I was recently watching a YouTube video of a new lot called SAORSO who seem to have a fantastic IT department, produce great material and can meet almost every night and communicate effectively after only deciding to get together 6 weeks ago. A classic example of divide and conquer if ever I seen one.

    The politicians are politicians as much as we respect certain individuals, all indy supporting political parties are flogging dead horses. Lib.Scot is open to all political persuasions for Indys sake and the only way forward now in my humble opinion.

  97. Christopher Finlay

    As an aside thank you for reminding me just how good a song the boxer is. I hadn’t heard for at least 30 years absolutely brilliant Thank you so much for reminding me

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