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The pooling and the sharing

Posted on October 16, 2014 by

Gordon Brown is expected to be up on his hind legs again in the Commons today – a second appearance in a week that’ll almost certainly be the mainly-absent opposition backbencher’s busiest period of activity in Parliament since the 2010 election.

He’ll be inexplicably getting time to lay out his views on devolution again, despite having absolutely no power to implement them, and it seems reasonable to imagine that he’ll spend a fair bit of time on the contents of the infamous “vow” he brokered days before the Scottish independence referendum.

vowtop

One line of that vow ran “We agree that the UK exists to ensure opportunity and security for all by sharing our resources equitably across all four nations”. And as “pooling and sharing resources” was Mr Brown’s catchphrase during the campaign, we thought it might be worthwhile taking a look at what that means in practice.

Readers of this site are probably well aware by now of the functions of the Barnett Formula, which allocates public spending to the four constituent parts of the UK. But there’s also UK government spending that’s exempt from Barnett rules, and which therefore does NOT generate funding for Scotland (known as “consequentials”), because it’s deemed to be for the benefit of the whole UK.

Such projects are contained within the National Infrastructure Plan (NIP). It’s not all that easy to get a detailed regional breakdown of what’s in the plan, but an alert reader pointed us to the diagram below, which comes not from a UK government website but that of the law firm Clyde & Co.

nip2014

(The full document can be found here.)

You’ll note that at a glance it’s possible to see that almost none of the £377 billion due to be spend on NIP projects is earmarked for Scotland. Other than a largely incidental benefit from investment in the Trans-Pennine railway, which mostly serves the north of England, the only one is the carbon-capture plant at Peterhead.

HM Government, while reluctant to break spending down regionally, does however, supply some public data about NIP. It can be found at a hub on gov.uk, and financial details are available in this PDF document. It explains the sources of funding, and Tables A.1 and B.1 reveal that of the £377bn total, just over £136 billion will be taken completely or substantially from the public purse, which means that around £12bn of it will be provided by taxpayers in Scotland.

The tables also allow us to deduce how much of the spending Scotland will get.

tablea1

tableb1

Readers can study the fine detail for themselves. But to cut a long story short, Scotland will get just £1bn of public spending back in return for its £12bn. The rest of the UK will “pool” £136bn and “share” almost every penny of it straight into England. The only thing in Wales is a new nuclear power station at Wylfa funded mainly by the private sector (although taxpayers will almost certainly be expected to subsidise the corporate investment for decades by paying well over the odds for the electricity produced, as they will with Hinkley Point C), and Northern Ireland gets nothing at all.

Projects paid for by the public and deemed to be benefitting the whole UK include an extension of the London Underground, a bridge in Liverpool, the Lower Thames Crossing in London, the Thameslink and Crossrail networks in London, various roads (most notably including the A14 from Warwickshire to Suffolk, but none in Scotland, as road-building in Scotland is a devolved responsibility) and of course the HS2 rail line, speeding passengers from as far north as Birmingham to (surprise!) London.

But we’re sure that Scottish taxpayers will be more than happy to send £11bn to the Treasury in London to fund lots of projects that Gordon Brown can make use of during the rare occasions when he actually turns up for work at the Palace of Westminster. After all, imagine where we’d be without him.

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166 to “The pooling and the sharing”

  1. Seasick Dave says:

    We all know that Labour MSPs and MPs read your carefully researched articles.

    However, in all the time that I have been logging on here, I have not heard one rebuttal from any of our elected representatives.

    I’d be delighted if any of the aforementioned could spare a few moments to tell us why they think you are wrong.

    Should they fail to be able to point out the errors in your article I would be grateful if they could point out why the situation you describe is acceptable and why they asked us to vote for it.

    I’ll be here all day…

  2. Doug Daniel says:

    “(most notably including the A14 from Warwickshire to Suffolk, but none in Scotland, as road-building in Scotland is a devolved responsibility)”

    This pretty much sums up why Scotland needs full control of our finances. If transport projects elsewhere in the UK are paid for out of non-Barnett money, then so should those in Scotland. Scotland alone is paying for the second Forth crossing and various rail improvements, so why shouldn’t England alone pay for some bridge in Liverpool and rail improvements in London?

    In fact, why aren’t the London projects being paid for by the London Assembly’s funds? (Well, we all know the answer to that…)

  3. One_Scot says:

    “imagine where we’d be without him.”

    Thanks for that, for a few seconds there, I was in a very happy place.

  4. JohnT says:

    So Roads are a devolved issue in Scotland so projects such as the dualling of the A9 have to be funded entirely from the Scottish budget, but roads in the rest of the UK are national spending so we have to pay for that too?

  5. gillie says:

    Looks like the Tories are lining up to put the boot into Gordie today. They have already labelled him as a “dictator” on devolution. We all thought he was the “patsy”.

  6. Roland Smith says:

    Just as well we voted No to save the Stock Market. Imagine what would have happened if it had been Yes, it might have collapsed significantly.

    Oh wait it has collapsed in any case.

    Send for Deutch Bank experts and Severin Carrol to explain how this has happened.

  7. MochaChoca says:

    Excellent analysis as ususal.

    Imagine what that £11bn would do for Scotland if it were to remain here.

    This is the kind of deconstruction that the YES side should have been shouting from the rooftops before 18th Sept. But instead they just seemed to meekly accept whenever a unionist spouted about an ‘extra £6bn black hole’.

    I happened to do a comparison between what we were accounted in public expenditure in the 2012/13 year versus what we would have paid under FFA and we should have just over £3bn (extra expenditure, lower deficit or combination of both).

  8. yerkitbreeks says:

    Actually, as seen from London, this all makes immense sense as it’s a ramification of the infamous ” trickle down effect “.

  9. Jimbo says:

    Broon will probably have better attendance figures once he’s had his Tory pals elevate him to the House of Lords as a just reward for services rendered to the Conservative and Unionist party.

  10. Macsenex says:

    Has the time not come for us all to turn up in North Queensferry for silent protest one still night? All we require is each to bring a small candle in a jam jar and stand quiet and unthreatening then at the appointed time put the candles out.

    Brown is yesterday’s man and snuffed!

  11. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Looks like they have already written off N Ireland and Scotland as part of the medium to longterm UK structure.

    Why invest when the foreign subsidiaries will be nationalised without compensation?

    The Hong Kong gambit; loot before quitting. They did it in every colony they lost.

  12. Doug_Bryce says:

    Good investigative journalism!

    > Scottish taxpayers will be more than happy to send £11bn

    For comparison the new forth crossing costs 0.7 billion and the A9 dual carriageway £3 billion. The A9 upgrade is going to be the most expensive infrastructure project ever made in Scotland….

  13. Sandy Brownlee says:

    Glad to see the map is nice and up-to-date, using the pre-1996 regions. Also, apparently the north of England doesn’t exist!

  14. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Macsenex

    Bring plastic bags of food for local Foodbanks and leave them around his house with a request that he delivers them in person.

    The arse that is Gordon Brown will probably do that and get a photo op at the same time.

    How we will laugh as we rip his hypocrisy apart without mercy.

  15. Alt Clut says:

    Just a very simple thought. Is it not time get out our YES canvass bags, fill them with short, clear leaflets explaining these issues and get them out in Labour held constituencies ?

    Activism is our strength. Let’s start the job of dismantling SLAB now.

    Such leaflets, and the resulting contacts, can be used to build neighbourhood meetings which set off community conversations and begin to eat out the Labour vote.

    The sooner we start the better placed we will be when the General Election campaign comes along.

  16. BigSteveChisholm says:

    Great stuff.

    Isn’t that there Forth Bridge 3 being paid for entirely out of the ScotGov budget? Seeing as it’s not a major UK (north to south) infrastructure project.

    Hind legs . I swear that those muckle electric security gates outside Gordon’s hoose in NQ are to keep him in, not intruders oot.

  17. Rigmac7 says:

    Now now, everyone knows we get more than our fair share of nuclear weapons funding to make up for the shortfall in NIP.

    Remember, Scotland is building a better England because a better England will attract so much more investment with which to fund erm, well, more better England stuff of course, to the benefit of, erm, a better United Kingdom (yeah, that’s it). I could get a job as an advisor to Clunk at this rate.

    As Mr Einstein once said;

    “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former”

    And how he was right.

  18. HandandShrimp says:

    I don’t suppose we could pool and share Gordon with someone…far away and remote like Borneo 🙂

  19. saporian says:

    This debate today is an adjournment debate. It will last for about half an hour. From the HOC website

    ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

    Until 5.30pm or for half an hour (whichever is later) (Standing Order No. 9(7))

    OP buttonUK Government’s relationship with Scotland: Mr Gordon Brown

    Although if you listen to the BBC and all the radio stations they are making it sound awfully important. The propaganda continues unabated.

  20. Grouse Beater says:

    I repeat, I question the sanity of Brown, Bagman to the Banksters, in his self-appointed role as guardian of Scotland’s health, wealth, and standing in the world.

    His behaviour is bizarre, contradictory, and delusional.

    The Scottish nation did not elect him to his current role.

    He has no mandate.

  21. ScottieDog says:

    That makes pretty grim reading.
    As for Gordon, he’s an idiot, but he could be a useful idiot.

    He’s still seems to have a cult following and I know of one person who would have actually voted YES if Gordon was to be Scotland’s leader (takes all sorts I know).

    So when ‘his’ petition founders, then we have to ask, if he has any credibility left, to take a stand for home rule. We all know that labour’s policy is poles apart from Gordon’s so maybe he needs to front up ‘labour for home rule’ or something along such lines. It’s not what I want but it would fracture the rotten entity that is new labour in scotland.

  22. Grouse Beater says:

    WoS: After all, imagine where we’d be without [Brown].

    Aye. Considering the wealth he took from the masses to give to bankrupt and criminal bankers, the whole of the UK would be the richer.

  23. Greg A. says:

    I see the £3billion refurbishment of Westminster isn’t mentioned but I don’t suppose it’s considered National Infrastructure.

  24. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Re Sandy Brownlee’s comment :- It appears Fife has also disappeared beneath the North Sea 🙂

  25. Capella says:

    Great to get some real figures on what we all knew but couldn’t quantify. Added to this is the estimate that HS2 will cost Aberdeen c £130 million. This has been going on since at least 1900 as the previous figures showing that half of Scotland’s revenue was spent on “Imperial Services” or infrastructure projects in the South.
    Where are the new Garden Cities around London in those estimates?
    Osborne promised us Garden Cities in Kent and Surrey.

  26. When the history of the world is written, the Scots will go down as the biggest mugs and suckers on the face of the planet.

    Stuff like this needs to go through every door in the country. Stuff like this should’ve been brought up every time a Yes representative got within a light year of a TV camera. It would’ve had more of an impact on many than some of the meek, happy-clappy stuff they all seemed determined to keep to.

  27. scopa says:

    MochaChoca says
    … But instead they just seemed to meekly accept whenever a unionist spouted about an ‘extra £6bn black hole’.

    A subject I bored for Scotland on. I think the worry on that one was the black hole will exist whether we were independent or not but if it was the latter then we could change our immigration policies to ease it. That was then followed by “so, you’re saying we’ll need more immigrants?” and no matter how you showed that it was a tiny number they still fell for Yvette Cooper’s UKIP line of “1 million more immigrants in 50 years”.

  28. frazer allan whyte says:

    “English votes for England” – of course and logically “Scottish pounds for Scotland” what could be more equitable?

    yerkitbreeks – “trickle effect” is just a euphemism for “pissing on the poor”

  29. frazer allan whyte says:

    sorry
    yerkitbreeks – “trickle DOWN effect” is just a euphemism for “pissing on the poor”

  30. galamcennalath says:

    Well researched! An eye opener about just how little non-Barnett public money comes back to Scotland. I think we all kind of knew it, but couldn’t put figures to it. The scale of the rip off is truly astonishing!

    This plays well into one of my hobby-horses. You cannot have English votes on English laws, if it is in part our money they spend! That would be taxation without representation.

    Some of the projects above considered ‘national’ ie UK in a WM context would probably require legislation and if the project were to be in England, I have little doubt they would consider it an English issue.

    My solution (short of independence of course) would be FFA for Scotland. Another possibility would be for all legislation related to NIP to require all MPs to be able to vote.

    English MPs should only vote to spend English tax revenue! If it’s UK money then all MPs need to be able to vote.

  31. Barney Thomson says:

    Saporian (11.55)-

    Aye, it’s awfy good of them to give the “UK Government’s relations with Scotland” equal billing with with important matters like the Isle of Wight ferries and trains from Worcester.

    http://tinyurl.com/7e43sqq

    Don’t they mean “pull” the resources from Scotland and share it amongst themselves?

  32. Onwards says:

    I always reckoned there is a deliberate attempt to keep Scottish spending down, in case Scotland becomes too successful.

    The London parties secretly WANT Scotland to be subsidised, to reduce demand for independence.

    They WANT London to be the engine room of the UK and for all other areas to receive hand-outs.

    That’s why Scotland won’t be allowed to compete on business taxes, direct flights, etc.
    Let alone get a share of energy revenues, or build up a oil fund.

    Voting NO was such an UNAMBITIOUS choice for the 55%.
    Even in Edinburgh, where it was pretty much expected, why wouldn’t the residents want to be part of a REAL capital city, with the extra influence that brings.

    The place would be buzzing with excitement and possibility.
    We could even have set up a new Scottish airline, helping to promote ‘Brand Scotland’ internationally.

    Are so many people really happy just to be a northern region, begging for funding, and meekly complaining when we get screwed?

    It’s amazing what a hostile media can accomplish.

  33. the Penman says:

    And, of course, to point out that this may not be exactly fair is to be decried across Scottish Labour circles as narrow-minded nationalist griping, because why should we deny Liverpudlians their bridges or the residents of Suffolk their road upgrades? (Sigh.)

  34. Kenny says:

    @ ScottieDog

    Even if Gordon were to attempt something like a “home rule” faction, WM would not allow it to split their party of useful idiots/drones (aka. the Red Tories) in Scotland. WM will buy him off with ermine robes and possibly propose him as a candidate for a position in somebody like the IMF. There is nothing an egomaniac loves more than strutting the world stage and seeming important (think of Gordy as a sort of poor man’s mussolini), WM know that and he is easily controlled if he gets any wrong ideas. And these ideas would only come in a fit of anger, say, at not having “his” position acknowledged. Brown cares about one thing — and it is not Scotland in any way, shape or form.

    Great analysis, Stu!! Now that’s what I call journalism!

  35. fred blogger says:

    i can’t imagine that the RoI would be pleased to get an infrastructure bill from NI.
    then there is the “defense” budget.

  36. Kenny says:

    sorry for mistakes: for “position” read “petition”, for “somebody” read “some body”.

  37. Stoker says:

    WAY O T.
    Rev, at the point of writing this there has been 21 posts added
    to this thread but on the previous page it states that this topic
    only has 5 contributions so far. I know in the grander scheme of
    things it is no big deal and you’re probably already aware of the
    problem, but is there a reason for this slowness?

    Also, as you will be aware, many members have been experiencing
    very slow delaying problems when posting, and at times complete
    posts “disappearing”.

    Are all these problems related to the same source, and are you
    working to remedy the problems? I can’t see the problem being
    with the individual because quite a few of us are experiencing it.

    As i said, its no big deal in the grander scheme of things but
    i’m becoming concerned that it may start having a detrimental
    affect on the site and its popularity.

  38. Capella says:

    Actually, on reading the document, that Carbon Capture plan is not guaranteed in Peterhead:
    “Two shortlisted projects (Peterhead and White Rose) recently signed contracts to undertake FEED16 studies to proceed to the next stage of the competition. In late 2015 the companies will take final investment decisions with the government taking decisions shortly after on proceeding to the construction of the projects. The pipeline also includes a small number of other CCS projects.
    Value to 2020: £2.6 billion; of which maximum potential opportunity: £1.6 billion”

  39. Now's the Hour says:

    This caught my eye in The Herald’s report on NS’s accession: “Scotland Office Minister David Mundell congratulated Ms Sturgeon at Scottish Questions in the Commons for “emulating Margaret Thatcher” to become the first female leader of her party”.

    In a word – w*nker.

  40. Alba 46 says:

    I note that media is reporting that Gordon Brown is being mentioned as the replacement Red Tory leader in Scotland.

    Lamont is an unmitigated failure as a politician but for her to be replaced by someone who was/is a :

    Failed MP

    Failed Chancellor

    Failed Prime Minister

    Failed human being – re a proven liar for his organ Transplant statement

    Sounds ideal for the post!!!!!

    God’s truth give me strength.

  41. Robert Louis says:

    This is another excellent piece demonstrating the underlying fraud in Labour’s insistence that the UK is about ‘pooling and sharing’. The reality for Scotland is we give London our oil for free, and our taxes to the tune of 11 billion to pay for projects in England.

    Why do Labour persist with their craven defense of such an unfair system. The facts are clear, it isn’t ‘pool and share’ at all, it’s simply a case of England taking, taking and taking again.

    I do not doubt that many decades ago, countries of the empire were told that the empire was about ‘pooling and sharing’, whilst all the while London helped itself to gold, diamonds, minerals and vast treasure from foreign shores.

    Of course all those countries eventually saw the lie of London for what it always was, and in most cases took independence by force. Only poor daft wee Scotland remains, tied to ‘mother England’, like utter fools.

    The only people who take Gordon brown as anything other than a dishevelled failure of a man, is the BBC – who seemingly hang on his every word.

  42. Luigi says:

    Alt Clut says:

    16 October, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Just a very simple thought. Is it not time get out our YES canvass bags, fill them with short, clear leaflets explaining these issues and get them out in Labour held constituencies ?

    Activism is our strength. Let’s start the job of dismantling SLAB now.

    Such leaflets, and the resulting contacts, can be used to build neighbourhood meetings which set off community conversations and begin to eat out the Labour vote.

    The sooner we start the better placed we will be when the General Election campaign comes along.

    Absolutely, we have to start sowing the seeds now. Ain’t no use waiting until the BBC MSM starts ramping up the “Labour is good, keep the tories out” message a few weeks before the GE. Our leafleted messages will then be swamped in another Tsunami of misinformation and deceit. We need to establish a decent head start, if we are to have any chance of unseating a few Red Tory arses next May.

    We need to start sowing now, friends.

  43. Hagbard Celine says:

    How interesting.

    On the funding side, the cost to taxpayers is NOT £136bn. It is somewhere between £73bn and that figure, since your linked document says the £63bn difference is a mix of public and private money.

    Split the difference and call it £105bn, with a Scottish share of £9bn.

    On the spending side, where on Earth did you get this “£1bn in Scotland” from?

    Looking at that table of top 40 projects and just the public or public/private funded ones, I see the following which are UK-wide and will therefore have spending in Scotland:

    1,2,3,7,8,9,10,11,12,16,26,28,32,33,34,35,36,40.

    No numbers to enable adding up but that looks a lot more than “£1bn”.

    Did you just make that up?

  44. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Anybody from now who is canvassed for a poll should say everything positive for Cameron, Miliband and even Clegg.

    Two reasons.

    It will make them think we have had our Damascene moment and we have returned to our kennel and when they realise just how much we are lying, they will go though the phases of grieving.

    Just in time for the Westminster GE.

  45. muttley79 says:

    Does BBC Scotland stand for Brown Broadcasting Corporation Scotland because they seem completely obsessed with the fraud?

  46. Karmanaut says:

    Just reading labours proposals for devolved powers in Scotland.

    They say cut the Barnett formula to 60% of its present rate and give us power to vary income tax by 15p.

    However, on no conditions should we be allowed control over VAT, national insurance contributions, corporation tax, alcohol, tobacco and fuel duties, climate change levy, insurance premium tax, vehicle excise duty, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and tax on oil receipts.

    Hmmm. Now where have I heard this before?

  47. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Now’s the Hour

    Has Johann Lamont changed her sex?

    Oh, I see now a “political party” conjoined with a “leader.”

    I wonder if G B will cross dress in solidarity with the political culture in Scotland.

  48. ronnie anderson says:

    As with the WBB how the outcome could have been had the Scottish People had this information to hand.

    Scottish Indy Political Party’s should be printing leaflets with this information in readiness for the Elections in 2015.

    If the REV can find this information & share it online, why cant the SNP gov & will this information be put before the Smith Commission, ?????.

  49. Haggis Hunter says:

    This is brilliant investigative journalism, thank you Stu for bring this to our attention.
    Need to get it on Fizzog Buch

  50. bookie from hell says:

    We give 12 billion for 1 billion return

    ffs

    no wonder M8 glasgow/edinburgh is 2 lanes

  51. Muscleguy says:

    @JohnT

    That is presumably what they mean by ‘The Best Of Both Worlds’. To Westminster that is exactly what the current system is: they don’t have to pay for stuff in Scotland AND they get £12billion to pay for stuff to bribe those 55million voters in Englandshire with.

  52. Muscleguy says:

    Though for fairness it should be noted that other parts fare worse. Like Wales, NI, the Northeast (derisory amounts per head for transport there)and the SW.

  53. gerry parker says:

    @ Bugger.

    Jim, could you perhaps give us some guidance here. I’m buggered (sorry) if I can think of anything positive to say about them if anyone asked.

  54. Robert Louis says:

    It is clear, that despite his lying to and betrayal of the people of Scotland with his false promises, Gordon Brown is trying, against ALL notions of sanity, to position himself as the man fighting for more powers.

    Aided and abetted by his personal media group (BBC).

    His behaviour is almost pathological, in that he seems to be unaware of how his own actions, were indeed a fundamental part of the deceit of Scots regarding more powers. He is one who whored himself to the media 24/7 in the last week of the referendum campaign, banging a drum for the promise of significant new powers ‘as close to federalism as posible’ which HE himself had apparently ‘secured’ from Westminster.

    It is like he does not even recognise his very own role in the fraud, and acts as though he is the one fighting against it.

    It is seriously, seriosuly bizarre.

  55. jackie g says:

    Alba @46 says:

    I note that media is reporting that Gordon Brown is being mentioned as the replacement Red Tory leader in Scotland.

    Oh the red tories are such great entertainment, the idea of Lamont being replaced by GB is hilarious that is akin to swaping one village idiot for another…

  56. msean says:

    Table B1 no.3 – wtf is a smart motorway?

    table B1 no.24 – unconventional gas production. Iwould that be office speak for fracking?

  57. Les Wilson says:

    Smoke and mirrors again from Westminster, how to hide Scotland’s wealth by stealth.
    We all need to know, and I mean everyone in Scotland need clear understand of what is actually happening here and had happened in different sneaky ways since the act of Union.

    Brown is a guttersnipe, he is, and always was, one of the worst PM’s ever and one of the sneakiest. Should we really be surprised? Great stuff again Rev.

  58. seanair says:

    There we have it, Lord Smith of Kelvin is a Proud Scot (on BBC 2).

  59. Capella says:

    We only have this information now because the Rev Stu is a real journalist unlike the craven corporate media that is the BBC and press.
    Furthermore, the UK gov obviously knew that the oil price was going to fall to $80 per barrel for two years because the OBR “warned” us during the campaign that it would and the SG were too optimistic in projecting $110 per barrel.
    From Presstv (an Iranian news outlet) we find that the Saudis were pressured by John Kerry to lower the oil price for two years to damage the Russian and Iranian economies.
    Obviously our UK govt knew and colluded in damaging our main asset for their greater geo-political aims. So not only are our assets stolen to fund infrastructure projects in the South East (and also the arms industry), we are also sold out through international power politics which no doubt profits the chums of the City of London elite.
    Pooling and sharing on a massive scale. I don’t believe for one minute that Gordon Brown is unaware of this. “The UK Government’s relationship with Scotland” adjournment debate will be a study in duplicity.

  60. muttley79 says:

    @Robert Louis

    Aided and abetted by his personal media group (BBC).

    True and funny in a dark sense.

  61. msean says:

    Now we know why it is hard to get these figures,the uk government don’t want it publicised that Scotland pays 12 times over what it receives,or by the treaury office calculator,Scotland gets 120 times more than what it paid in.

  62. gerry parker says:

    I wonder if “Scotlands Champion” will be following this up?

  63. Will McEwan says:

    This is where the fabled “extra money” per head that Scotland apparently gets is explained. We don’t.

    About one third of Government expenditure goes in procurement and “national” expenditure on infrastructure,defence etc. Scotland gets less than half its share of this.

    If you factor in all government spending by far the biggest beneficiary of is the south of England

  64. Golfnut says:

    Hi. The above article really does put into perspective who and where the actual bebefactors of all this pooling and sharing. I remember some years ago seeing a chart that detailed just how much spending per capita for each of the uk countries really was when these NIP projects where added in. If I rember corrctly London and southeast came way up there. Puts this so called extra Scotland gets into perspective. Does anybody else remember this, or know where this might be found.

  65. Brian Fleming says:

    “HandandShrimp says:
    16 October, 2014 at 11:55 am
    I don’t suppose we could pool and share Gordon with someone…far away and remote like Borneo :)”

    Why abuse the Third World when Gordo has been working so hard anyway to create a new Third World at home?

  66. Taranaich says:

    “Why should English taxpayers pay for free university, free prescriptions, free bus passes and free elderly care in Scotland?”

    I hear and read that all the time. Up until now I’ve been saying “why should Scottish oil revenues pay for sewers, roads, railways and islands in London?”

    The subsidy myth is going to continue to be trumpeted by the MSM and we cannot allow it to continue. The Guardian?/i> made a huge mistake in 2007, back before a referendum was possible. Now the BBC have realised their mistake in finally acknowledging the 120+ years left in the North Sea.

    This is why the BBC must be destroyed: they are never going to stop keeping Scotland down. We will never be free from Scotlandshire until we take our freedom. That goes for the rest of the MSM, too:

    http://t.co/HGBykqqCcT

    60% of voters based their vote on the newspapers. Not a single national or daily newspaper backed independence.

    71% of voters based their vote on TV and radio. Not a single news program or channel backed independence.

    54% of voters based their vote on social media. What percentage of over-55s use the internet?

    Put 2 and 2 together.

  67. Balaaargh says:

    There are some interesting items in that list. All the top priorities are transport-based which is already devolved. Even the Smart Motorway section as part of the new FRB is financed by Holyrood.

    I’d be curious to know how much public money is left by the time by the time it gets to item 27. Only Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Perth qualify for the super-connected cities money which is a pot that SME organisations have to claim for as opposed to WM going out and spending it to make our lives easier.

    Good work, Rev. This is a must for the WBB, 2nd edition.

  68. Gordon Brown will not be taking over as leader of Red tories in Scotland (or Mugsland), Brown makes far too much money. £66,000 Salary soon to be £74,000 for doing nothing. That allows him to claim £200,000 in expenses. Gives him time to write and deliver a few speeches around the world at £83,000 a speech.

    Would you give that up?

  69. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ gerry P

    I said lie. Anything you really think, just say the opposite.

    Gordon Brown is a mentally unstable mendacious clown.

    becomes

    Gordon Brown is great Scottish political god who has the best interests of Scotland at his heart.

    That sort of shit

    oh and I voted Yes in the Referendum but am coming back to thinking about voting Labour, or Liberal.

  70. Balaaargh says:

    @msean

    A Smart Motorway is one which has variable speed limits with speed cameras mounted on frequent gantries. Some will also allow you to use the hard shoulder during peak periods and there are emergency laybys for breakdowns. The M90 J1-J3 is Scotland’s only example which is a bit rubbish tbh.

    When I lived in the Midlands, I infrequently had to use the M42 down the East side of Birmingham which was a nightmare for traffic jams and RTA’s. 90% of fire brigade callouts were to RTA’s at one point. Once it had been turned into a “Smart Motorway”, the accident rate improved significantly.

  71. galamcennalath says:

    We need to get all the NIP stuff out there and understood by more people.

    Perhaps in the run up to WM2015 Wings/Stu/Crowd Fund should release the Wee Blue Book II?

    As a follow up, because WBM1 still stands as THE best case for independence around, WBM2 should focus on what is wrong with the Union and how Scotland was/is being/will be ripped off.

    Not just the financial situation, but the constitutional and democratic inadequencies of the current system.

    And, all the things which aren’t devolved, and in a few months we’ll know what won’t be devolved in the future. These are things which people may either believe are already devolved, or they would certainly wish devolved.

  72. RMAC says:

    Of course this will all be picked up and reported by our wonderful BBC and those journalistic paragons of virtue in the MSM… yeh you can hear them typing their reports… I wont hold my breath.
    As Seasick Dave says, I have never seen a rebuttal of any of the facts posted here, the best they can come up with is a poorly informed troll on twitter and calls for changes in the law to combat the subversives… those of us who haven’t been bayoneted yet.

  73. caz-m says:

    I have never known a backbench MP like Brown to have so much power. BBC Scotland and the Daily Record repeated every single word that came out of Brown’s mouth as if it was Government policy.

    And if this was your only source of information regarding the Referendum, then it is easy to see why so many undecided voters were duped.

  74. gillie says:

    It seems Scottish Labour MPs are now embarrassed by Gordie’s interventions.

    They want him to shut the fuk up and go away because Gordie rantings over the transfer of tax powers leading to the break up of the UK is preventing the party from making a deal with the Tories over devolution.

    Labour has fallen into the EVEL trap set by Cameron, they don’t want to be seen falling into another Tory trap over tax that results in devo-nothing.

  75. caz-m says:

    O/T but still related to infrastructure.

    The Stirling Prize is for the best newly built buildings in the UK. There is a shortlist of six buildings this year.

    Three from London, the other three are from Manchester, Birmingham and finally Liverpool. All in England.

    As usual, nothing from Scotland, Wales or N.Ireland.

    All of the above cities will also be linked with the new state of the art, high speed railway system being planned, HS2/3/4.

  76. Training Day says:

    Brown’s appearance today is an exercise in extreme cynicism. He knows exactly what he is doing, he is going through the motions with nary an ounce of conviction underpinning what he will say. It’s a carefully orchestrated sop to the benighted. ‘Look, I tried.’

    That Westminster colludes in this charade by giving the charlatan Brown time to appear as ‘Scotland’s Champion’ says it all about that moribund body.

  77. Kenny says:

    Hope this report is being passed around on Facebook, Twitter and all the social media.

    Remember also that when Iceland stuck two fingers up to the bankers and it turned out that UK local councils had been putting surplus money in accounts offering suspiciously high interest rates in Icelandic banks, Brown enacted ANTI-TERRORISM laws against the good country of Iceland. Yes, not against those who committed acts of financial terrorism, but against those who committed acts of democracy!

  78. theycan'tbeserious says:

    Thanks rev. Some of these figures were known and available throughout the refreendum. However the Yes camp chose not to ram them back down the No camps throats. Pounds shillings and pence is the only language that some proud scots speak. I have always said this should have been the battleground. Scotlands wealth being squandered to build Englands green and pleasant land to the detriment of the Scots.

  79. JayR says:

    “When I was at university I heard a politician speaking and I’ll never forget what he said: This is a promise we will keep”I can understand how people are sceptical when promises are made.”I would say that there is no alternative to further devolution.

    It’s not just that all parties have committed themselves to it, it’s that the people of Scotland know that these promises have been made not just by one party but all the parties that they want to see further change. These parties will not command popular support in the general election in Scotland if they renege on their promises after the referendum. I would suggest that the talks to agree this devolution should start immediately after September 18 so that we recognise that there is a will for change…We’re going to be, within a year or two, as close to a federal state as you can be in a country where one nation is 85 per cent of the population”

    Gordon Brown – The (Proud) Scotsman, 15 Aug 2014

    Does he have amnesia or is he just a pathological liar who will tell any lie for the short term gain of the Labour Party, no matter what damage it does to Scotland?

  80. caz-m says:

    The English will tell us we are getting a £100 Billion investment to upgrade our Trident Nuclear Missile System based on the Clyde, so stop being so ungrateful.

    That’s all you Scots do, moan, moan, moan.

  81. Rigmac7 says:

    Yay!
    Just got an email from Nicola, inviting me to the Hydro *does happy dance

  82. heedtracker says:

    It all makes sense once you understand you’re not a country youre fucking region, Headline from BBC/Guardian/Telegraph not but they really want to. We’re a region with a vey small population and 55% said they’ll keep it that way. Proud Scot buts.

  83. Onwards says:

    If dualling the A9 can’t be classed as a national infrastructure project then the whole thing is a total joke.

    The road is about a quarter the length of Britain.

  84. muttley79 says:

    @Onwards

    I think heedtracker’s post above illustrates why it is not classed as a national infrastructure project. We are seen as a region by Westminster, and over 50 per cent have effectively just endorsed that view.

  85. Robert Louis says:

    If it had not previously dawned on British Labour, that Nicola was a bigger threat than Salmond, given her live TV savaging of the cardboard cut out Alistair (‘help me rhona!’) Carmichael a few months ago, it has certainly dawned on them now.

    Scurrying around plotting against lamont, with the hair brained notion that Gordon (britin, britin, britin) Brown can save the day.

    It is truly hilarious to watch. Either of them will do. Both are a joke.

    Meanwhile in other News, the Nicola tour of Scotland is almost sold out, within a day. Read it and weep Labour, read it and weep.

  86. Fearchar says:

    This is merely short-term expenditure. Repeat it for a century or so, though, and you end up with a country that possesses abundant natural resources and a highly educated workforce yet suffers from chronic emigration. The reason? The capital drainage ensures that profitable economic activity can only be pursued by emigrants.

    Growing up surrounded by this lack of capital made me into a Scottish nationalist; after all, I could see comparable rural areas of Germany and Denmark flourishing, with small businesses growing, and only limited emigration.

    Seeing this capital haemorrhage continue while people argue over minor details (such as which tax goes where) is frustrating, like watching nurses arguing over what to use as a tourniquet while the patient’s blood is gushing out.

  87. Robert Louis says:

    Mutley, and heedtracker,

    You see, if you do look at the UK, as a single entity (as Westminster does), you inevitably come to the conclusion, that the priority needs to be in the areas with highest population density and highest GDP output. This means, that Scotland, is just a wee remote sparsely populated place, at the far out end of the UK, with little economic activity compared to the powerhouse south of the UK (AKA England).

    It is that same logic which led to Anthrax being tested on an Island of Scotland, and the Nuclear missiles being dumped on the Clyde.

    This is the problem. The policy makers in London see the entire UK as a single entity – and their view of Scotland from London is akin to Scotland’s view of St.Kilda – a nice place to visit, but hardly of much use, too far away, and really not very productive.

    This, more than anything, is just why Scotland needs control of its own finances, otherwise money will continue going from Scotland to England for infrastructure projects.

  88. HandandShrimp says:

    Watched the Lord Smith interview. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. He may have said the “Proud Scot” thing..which is always a worry but I did like the way he brushed the EVEL thing aside and said that it isn’t my problem, I will come up with a set of proposals and Westminster has said they will honour it.

    Of course we are all pretty convinced they won’t and Brown is making petition noises which suggests he thinks they won’t either but if Smith comes up with something half way decent we will either have another incremental step forward or a hefty club to beat Labour and their chums with. Neither are bad things.

  89. Ken500 says:

    E.g Scotland raises £60Billion in taxes. Rest of the UK raises £540Billion. Rest of the UK borrows and spends another £100Billion. Scotland pays £3Billion surplus to rest of the UK and £4Billion on debt repayment it doesn’t borrow or spend.

    Scotland gets back £30Billion + £15Billion welfare/pensions = £45Billion Westminster spends the rest. Scotland has lost £4Billion a year in Oil revenues since 2011 Budget, when Osbourne/Alexander increase Oil tax 11% (£2Billion) a year, up to 90%.

    Scotland could save £1.5Billion on Trident/illegal wars and £1.5Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink.

    Scotland would be £10Billion+ better off Independent.

  90. crazycat says:

    @ msean at 12.44

    Unconventional gas production isn’t just fracking (of shale), but also refers to Coal-bed Methane Extraction and Underground Coal Gasification.

  91. muttley79 says:

    @HandandShrimp

    Hopefully the leverage of the 45 per cent Yes vote, and the promises and vows, mean that the pro-independence parties can get a good deal. The funding arrangements will be key. We will find out very soon anyway.

  92. Ken500 says:

    Scotland could also access Renewable Grants and full CAP payments from EU.

  93. caz-m says:

    I don’t know if there are any tickets left for the SNP Roadshow-Glasgow event on Saturday 22nd Nov 2pm, but here is the link I got through from Nicola.

    Give it a go if you are interested in going,

    https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/snp-roadshow-glasgow-tickets-13628564403

  94. Callum says:

    I’ll take issue with your figures if no one else will. £63bil of the £136bil is private/public co-spend so your probably looking at something like match-funding so 50% split on average? that gives about £105bil or a little under £9bil attributed to Scotland. I’d also suggest that some of the earmarked public spending other than the CCS project will be heading to Scotland – Nuclear decommissioning for one. There is also a number of seemingly pan-UK projects, at least some of which will surely be heading our way.

    I don’t disagree with the premise and would imagine Scotland is still financially hamstrung by the arrangement but not quite to the alarming extent you suggest…

  95. TJenny says:

    Yippeee – just booked ticket for Nicola’s gig in Glasgow – hope to see lots of Wingers there too. Happy days. 🙂

  96. Luigi says:

    Gordon Brown’s little act is all part of the BBC MSM Red Tory rehabilitation programme. He wants Labour to be seen as championing Scottish interests against the evil (evel) blue tories. He knows that him and his red tories all but destroyed the hopes of 1.6 million YES voters (most of whom appear to be in Labour heartlands). Pure theatre. This positioning as Scotland’s champion, to the extent of hijacking someone else’s petition, is desperate stuff. But, think of all this in terms of the coming GE battle and it makes perfect sense. With EVEL, Cameron has completely demolished any hopes of a Labour recovery in England. Brown knows this, but all he can do is try and protect as many SLAB bums in position next years as he can.

  97. Murray McCallum says:

    If the UK government determine that they need a new hub airport (or enlarged Gatwick) to replace or compliment Heathrow, then:

    (a) has Crossrail been a waste? and
    (b) will the spend effectively be repeated all over again from the new hub?

    It just seems that London is a bottomless pit of public spending. If it is so successful then why can’t it fund all its investment from local business taxes?

  98. Oneironaut says:

    @msean
    I’d always assumed “unconventional gas production” referred to what Gordon Brown did after a particularly large taxpayer-funded meal! 😉 hehe.

  99. mary doll says:

    a great suggestion. Lets not wait for SNP to put the facts before the Smith commission WOS should do it

  100. Valerie says:

    Totally agree that Crash will not take a sup from the poison chalice of SLab – as mentioned by Mr Caithness above, he tours the world making big money in after dinner speaking, as well as collecting his MP salary and expenses. He is a liar, but he is not that stupid,he was quite careful who he took a platform with for fear of further taint. All he is doing just now is a bit of flim-flam to say “I tried my best”, and he will be on the first plane back to the US.

  101. Lesley-Anne says:

    Ye gods!

    Not once but TWICE in ONE week Broon the Loon makes an appearance at Westminster. Sorry Stu but as a result of this revelation I really do feel the need, no not for speed, but for THIS! 😛

    http://tinyurl.com/nxro7xp

    Funny how Broon never thought about becoming Scotland’s *ahem* champion when Alex Salmond was First Leader. He only wants to be our *cough* champion now that we will have a female First minister. What an utterly corrupt and cowardly excuse of a human this guy is, he only has guts to face down and BULLY women!

    Reading some of the early posts I was surprised to learn that our *cough* beloved champion STILL lived in South Queensferry. I only mention this cause I’m sure after the kicking his party sort of got in 2010 was he not reported to be looking for a new house to buy in Edinburgh?

    As far as the idea of leaving bags of food outside his gates for him to deliver, in full flood of the media coverage, well I don’t think that will happen. He would probably just take the bags in, use the food himself and then put in a claim to Westminster under his monthly £400 food allowance!

  102. Ken500 says:

    Thatcher and Brown bankrupted Britain. Deregulated banking and illegal wars.

  103. caz-m says:

    I picked a few DVDs at the Barras in Glasgow the other week, which looked back over the past century at all the major industries that had made Glasgow the “Second City of the Empire”.

    During that period there was major industries all over Scotland, Glasgow led the world in Shipbuilding and Enginerering.

    But one thing that hasn’t changed is the poverty. Glasgow and all major cities back then, had some of the worst housing conditions in Europe. Poor health, poor education, alcoholism, sectarianism, crime,

    And on 18th September 2014 we had the chance to change all that for good. We voted NO for more of the same.

    Some things will never change.

    I have a feeling that most of those NO voters are closet Sado-Masochists.

  104. faolie says:

    I remember that the slogan, “It’s Scotland’s Oil!” was pretty effective in getting a 30% share of the vote for the SNP in 1974. I’d say we need another slogan for 2015 and Stu’s analysis of the above illustrates perfectly what it should it be.

    “It’s Scotland’s Money”

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says:16 October, 2014 at 12:21 pm:

    “English MPs should only vote to spend English tax revenue! If it’s UK money then all MPs need to be able to vote.”

    Ach! galamcennalath, there is no such thing as English only money for England has no parliament & no block grant so is funded as the United Kingdom directly from the UK treasury with United Kingdom treasury funds.

    To the English they are the UK and the UK is England.

  106. @ Lesley-Anne – Broon lives in North Qeensferry

    Just to be pedantic there is no South Queensferry. There is only QUEENSFERRY on the south side of the Forth and North Queensferry on the north side.

    I feel awfull for being so pedantic.

  107. Luigi says:

    Lesley-Anne says:

    As far as the idea of leaving bags of food outside his gates for him to deliver, in full flood of the media coverage, well I don’t think that will happen. He would probably just take the bags in, use the food himself and then put in a claim to Westminster under his monthly £400 food allowance!

    Ha Ha, good one! But you know what? I actually think he is quite capable of doing that. He would certainly try it on if he though he could get away with it.

  108. heedtracker says:

    Here in England, for what it’s worth, the busy fool that is Gordon Brown goes almost completely unreported.

  109. Marcia says:

    James Caithness

    Is there a Dalmeny?

  110. Defo says:

    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

  111. Graeme Doig says:

    Just hoping Mr broon doesn,t turn up at pitrevie any Saturday morning soon.

    Last time he did I managed to make a passing comment (such was my self control).
    I’m not sure I could manage such a feat again such is my disgust at his brazen attempts to be lord and high protector of Scotlands interests.

    The man is a complete fraud.

    So please Mr broon do youself a favour …

  112. M4rkyboy says:

    What’s scary is that you haven’t even included the spend of the Govt depts concentrated in England.
    MOD,SIS,Foreign Office and other civil services that we pay for but don’t benefit from.

  113. I see some posters have raised the issue of Gordon Brown doing enough to get his ermine.

    Gordon Brown is already assured of ermine. As a former Prime Minister he will, when he quits the House of Commons, be offered an Earldom – it goes with the pension. It is up to him whether or not he accepts it, but, he doesn’t have to be nice to the Tories, or toe the Westminster line, to get one. Given recent practice, however, he will almost certainly refuse the Earldom and settle for a Life Peerage.

    I note too, some concern about Scottish taxes going to fund the A14 upgrade. As someone who, in a previous existence, used the A14 regularly, I say – not before time. The A14 is a major road, much ysed by trucks involved in import/export business to and from Felixstowe.

    However, even in its present state, the A14 is a much-better road than either the A75 or the A77, the two major Scottish roads which carry import/export business to and from the port of Cairnryan, and roads which I have had to travel too-often for my own comfort. The A14 is already dualled all the way from Catthorpe (the interchange with the M6 and M1) to Felixstowe. That is a distance of 132 miles.

    Between the end of the M74 at Gretna and the entrance to Cairnryan port is a distance of 106 miles; from the end of the A77 dual carriageway at Whitletts Roundabout to Cairnryan is a distance of 41 miles; that s a total distance of 147 miles, in which there are a couple of tiny stretches of dual carriegeway.

    These roads might not carry the volume of traffic which the A14 does, but, in national British terms, it can be argued that the A75 and A77 are equally as important as the A14.

    Then there is the A9 from Perth to Inverness. Again, it could argued this road is as strategically-important to the UK as is the A14, but, the dualling of this “killer” road is apparently a matter for Holyrood.

    There are three issues of unfairness of which I can speak from personal experience – how many more could other Wingers come up with.

    We are being used and abused and only Independence will end this.

  114. manandboy says:

    As a boy, if I had called my brother mendacious
    my father would have slapped me for showing off and for not using an ordinary word like ‘liar’.

    Please don’t use words which whitewash serious wrongdoing – like mendacious does.
    If you think anyone has lied then use the word liar.
    Here’s an example: Gordon Brown is a liar.

    We have a message to get across to 2 million people in Scotland. Using long words which the majority of the 2 million won’t understand is counter productive. Using plain English means that everyone understands – and gets the message.

    Another example is ‘plebiscite’.
    I’m sure everyone can think of more examples of words which serve only to obscure the meaning we are trying to impart.

    Rant over, I think I’ll have a cup of herbal reinvigoration before repositioning horizontally for a while.

    Losing a referendum is hard going.

  115. @ marcia – Yes there is a Dalmeny. Top of the hill

  116. With Milliband doing what he did yesterday at PMQs reference Lord Frued I think Cameron and the Tories will definately not let them (Labour shite) off the hook when it comes to EVEL.

  117. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Looking at that table of top 40 projects and just the public or public/private funded ones, I see the following which are UK-wide and will therefore have spending in Scotland:”

    Pay attention.

    “1,2,3”

    Roads are devolved. The Scottish Government pays for them in Scotland.

    For the others, see the maps.

    £136bn is what’s been allocated in public money. SOME of it MAY be subsequently replaced by private investment, but as things stand the taxpayer is picking up the tab. (And of course, we know that any private investment will be repaid by the taxpayer several times over anyway. That’s why they call it “investment”, not “charity”.)

  118. Robert Peffers says:

    @Onwards says: 16 October, 2014 at 12:21 pm:

    “I always reckoned there is a deliberate attempt to keep Scottish spending down, in case Scotland becomes too successful. The London parties secretly WANT Scotland to be subsidised, to reduce demand for independence.”

    You don’t know the half of it, Onwards, The Establishment have much form in that kind of thing. Glasgow became, “The Second City of the Empire”, and was threatening to outdo London. The Establishment felt threatened and thus began the decline of Glasgow. At one time a certain square mile in Glasgow was the most productive area in the British Empire. It produced Steam Locomotives for the World.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_British_Locomotive_Company

    Glasgow, in the establishments eyes, was getting too big for her boots. This plus the rise of the Red Clydesiders panicked the Establishment and they decided Glasgow had to be brought down to size. Ask yourself why the greatest steam locomotive works in the World was not the natural choice to become the greatest Diesel loco works in the World? Why had the shipbuilding and other super rich exporting and trading centres to be cut to the bone?

    Finally work out why the great city was allowed to become only fit for slum clearance and why they built New Towns all over Scotland and parts of England, (i.e. Corby), and decamped large batches of Glaswegians from their great native city? Why is London still expanding outwards and upwards while Glasgow is still shrinking?

  119. Valerie says:

    There has I believe, also been doubt cast on the fullness of revenue receipts gathered from Scotland – on the basis “they don’t matter that much” It is one of the things I will put in my Smith Commission return.

  120. K1 says:

    Robert Louis, could it be the case that Brown was in fact The key player of the better together campaign strategy from the start?

    Given, as you point out his incredible exposure by the bbc and daily record in that last week, his emergence throughout the campaign in closed meetings with a section of the electorate that was clearly being targeted; Labour voting pensioners, and those who ostensibly identify as british. Could he have been a key player and ally of Cameron’s from the outset?

    In light of the result, and his part in it, he has continued to have a ready and willing spotlight placed on him by the msm. Could he actually have known Cameron’s intentions to introduce the EVEL on the 19th, and in fact was this the deal:

    Knowing the reaction that would ensue from the current Labour opposition, that there would be an outcry, derailing the Vow by this means, allowed him to enact the next stage of the plan; to defend the Vow, and as has been mentioned to further strengthen his position as the saviour of Scotland. To make a big noise about further devolution, meanwhile the true intention is to bring him back into Scottish politics; To start their ‘dismantling’ of the ‘nationalists’…by reasserting their power and influence, which BBC and the other unionist msm will happily accommodate. It’s all about ‘positioning’ for the long game, they want ‘Independence killed stone dead’. There is no means they will forgo to that end.

    They are indeed terrified, in my view. The result was not good for them, and over the course of the referendum, they too saw the trend; no to don’t know…to yes.

    The point from their perspective, is maintain the union…at any cost. He is being given a prominent voice, where he was before an ex politician, he is now primed to be the big player in ‘rescuing’ a ‘false’ vow…this isn’t ‘accidental consequences’. The BBC don’t accidentally focus their cameras and narrative because it’s ‘news’. They manufacture the narrative, and are bidden by the state to promote the state’s narrative.

    Gordon Brown is in the Labour and msm’s narrative promoted as a big influence in Scotland. What better way to have him enter into the fray by having him oust the current weaker Scottish Labour’s (branch) current leader? The UK government is strengthening it’s position in Scotland, on the back of the referendum result if it has ‘one of their own’ of which Brown surely is, in the Scottish parliament. Not only that…he would be repositioned as the ‘popular underdog’ by the daily record, because of his current, manufactured outcry of how unfair it is that Scotland has been duped by the conservatives. Thereby shoring up that section of the ‘no’ vote, who would otherwise have voted yes, if not for the Vow.

    The reality being, it is the Scottish electorate that has been duped by both ‘better together’ parties.

    Am I now…too far down the rabbit hole?

  121. Rev William Steele says:

    I like HandandShrimp’s suggestion that we share Gordie (Shit is brown and stinks. Is Brown shit? He certainly stinks.) with Borneo, but I’d really like to send him to Brunei. The Sultan is instituting Sharia. So he could have the lying perjurious tongue cut out!

  122. Papadox says:

    @Robert puffers says: 4:00pm.

    Totally agree Robert. LONDON parties do not want us to be subsidised, they just want us to believe we are subsidised. As they plunder the wealth of Scotland and impoverish its people, financially and spiritually thus keeping us in our place, as they would have it. They are lower than a snakes belly, but much more dangerous and have absolutely no conscience.

    SLAB have been complicit in this scam for years they sold out the labour founders and their principals years ago.

  123. Robert Peffers says:

    @jackie g says: 16 October, 2014 at 12:43 pm:

    “Oh the red tories are such great entertainment, the idea of Lamont being replaced by GB is hilarious that is akin to swaping one village idiot for another…”

    I can picture it now. FMQs with wee Nicola being questioned by Broon. How long before he loses it and accuses her of being a racist or a bigot. In no way could the loon countenance being upstaged by a mere wee lassie.

    The size of His ego exceeds the size of his brain.

  124. Stoker says:

    @3.47pm – manandboy,
    Thanks, i needed that, tears of laughter rolling down my cheeks.
    It’s a subject which seriously rips-ma-knittin.
    After-all, a spade is a spade and a shovel’s a shovel.
    You make some very good points with that post.
    Great stuff, manandboy, my post of the day.

  125. Jim Mitchell says:

    Robert Louis, Gordon Brown cares only for himself and his place in the history books, he of course sees that as being different from some of us!

    I beleave him not only to be a chancer of a politican, but a deeply flawed human being always on the look out for the main chance.

    He reminds me more and more of President Nixon with every day that passes!

  126. SquareHaggis says:

    Anyone know if there’s a website out there displaying the days passed now without any new powers being given?

    We had a countdown in days to the referendum.

    We need a countdown in days to new powers.

    Something visible, on the streets would be better.

  127. K1 says:

    Aye but it’s the mendacity of their mendaciousness that’s so much commented on…sometimes lying just doesn’t cover it manandboy. Anyway who doesn’t like to educamacate themsel’s, mustn’t assume there’s a majority within 2 million who will be banjaxed by an unfamiliar word, or concept for that matter…jeez were would be if that wiz our problem…I’ll try tae get ma barnet consequentials roon that wan, naw, better no…(I do get your point btw…just don’t think it’s the biggest inhibiting factor in terms of conveying information) 🙂

  128. yesindyref2 says:

    GERS apparently shows different totals from the Treasury figures for expenditure to do with Scotland. Different accounting practices, and bearing in mind the Treasury’s take on “£2.5 billion” to set up 150 new Government departments or whatever it was, I believe GERS.

    What the Scottish Gvoernment have been doing bit by bit is decreasing the figures for Unattributed Expenditure of which Scotland is assigned a share, so bit by bit, as far as GERS is concerned, it shows more and more exactly how much of our Revenue is sent down to London, for no return.

    Unfortunately GERS 2012-13 showed our deficit to be slightly worse than the UK, the first time in 5 years or more. As we know, this was due to extra cpaital expenditure by the Scottish Government, and Osborne’s cashcow tax on oil revenues which resulted after a time, in reduced extraction, But also the reversal of this, and extra tax incentives for decommissioning which therefore swayed the figures. Some would say accidental, the paranoid would say a deliberate plot. I must be a bit paranoid, after all!

    What that meant was that the prime financial weapon of the Scottish Government in the close run up to the Referendum was blunted, nullified. The only defence was to talk about 5 years average, rather than the 1 year. This reduced the ability of the Scottish Government to fight “subsidy junkie” claims. Similarly the Unionists largely left GERS alone because then the 5 year defence, or attack, could have been better publicised to good effect. But they did make hay on the single factoid – a 1 year larger deficit for Scotland than the UK.

    By the way, GERS – IS – audited, by Audit Scotland.

  129. Valerie says:

    Well, Carmichael can filibuster for Scotland. Having to endure it after the unedifying bum licking he performed on Crash

  130. EphemeralDeception says:

    The source UK gov documentation is not that easy to find but it is here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-infrastructure-plan-2013

    The book is 152 pages long. The section devoted to investment in Scotland is on page 73 and takes up about half a page.

    The other area of investment, no surpise at all again all about pooling and indeed pulling resources from Scotland is southerly direction:
    “he Western High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) subsea link valued at around £1billion which will bring renewable energy from Scotland to homes and businesses in England and Wales; at 420km it will be the longest 2.2GW capacity
    HVDC cable in the world with sufficient electricity to meet the needs of around 2 million people”

    Think about who is paying for this, who benefits and compare to the analogous Sleipner gas pipeline from Norway and who has paid for that and who profits from that.

  131. EphemeralDeception says:

    P.S. It is not at all fair to say most of the investment is in England. While that is true the investment is very concentrated in the SE of England to the detriment of all other parts of the UK. Also the further away you are from London the less the secondary benefits are.

  132. Ally Maciver says:

    Is there any source published for historical spend? I’d love to see a list of things we’ve already paid for. And would have been very interested to see what part these may have played in any Independence negotiations if only we had voted yes…

  133. David Smith says:

    @Robert Peffers.
    NBL is an interesting one. They had in fact acquired licences from MAN in Germany for the production of Diesel engines.
    One theory I’ve heard recently that potentially supports your ‘sabotage’ theory surrounds these machines. The ‘British’ Transport Commission ordered a number of classes from NBL, but allegedly repeatedly came back to Springburn requesting alterations to the specification and design with consequent detrimental effects to both the budget and effectiveness of the designs.
    Consequently they were to suffer from massive reliability issues resulting in compensation claims from BR and lost orders from overseas customers who had enthusiastically bought the company’s steam-powered products.
    I hadn’t considered the possibility that the sequence of events was deliberately orchestrated, but now you’ve opened this particular can of megadrilles…

  134. caledonia says:

    Would love to see the Daily Records take on this as it was them that printed the vow..

    Or have they stopped being the Scots champion and instead became the English government Gazette

  135. heraldnomore says:

    Haggis, don’t know about a post ref countdown, but I did come across a countdown last night. You’re going to ask me where it was aren’t you?

    Found it. Moridura has one running on his latest post; ticking down to GE2015.

    And no I don’t have a link at the moment, but he’s on the sidebar, isn’t he?

  136. John Mac says:

    I’ve came to the conclusion that we were never getting independence. No way was the 5th largest global power going to be broken up. There are far greater powers at work throughout not only the UK but the world. Forget all these videos going about, it goes much deeper than that. 1 million people ‘supposedly’ registered to vote? Why? The vast majority would have been for Yes. This 1 million could have been a cover for the so called silent majority. The amount of times they used that term was to justify the result. Why no exit polls? Sometimes I wonder if our so called leaders have been put in place to make us think their fighting for us.

  137. heraldnomore says:

    Eh, no, he’s not. But you know where to find him, even if Stu’s not on terms.

  138. snode1965 says:

    Excuse my ignorance folks. How can gordon brown replace lamont at Holyrood, if he is not an elected MSP?

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @David Smith says: 16 October, 2014 at 6:44 pm:

    “I hadn’t considered the possibility that the sequence of events was deliberately orchestrated, but now you’ve opened this particular can of megadrilles…”

    Well, David, It actually wasn’t me who discovered the can of whatsits. Some considerable time ago I happened upon a website, or article, on a site, that went into great detail about how Glasgow was cut down to size. It included a great deal of sound evidence and cites to other articles. I’ve spent some time today attempting to find it again and failed. For some reason I associate the phrase, “Square Mile”, with the article. I think this to be a memory, “bookmark”, thing I’ve filed away as a memory jogger. Just this minute I had a wee flash that it was a Glasgow Council History site. I’ll try again.

  140. raineach says:

    Scottish Pounds for Scottish Projects!

  141. K1 says:

    Snode1965 at 7.54pm. I think these things…can be worked out.

    From the Mail today:

    “Gordon could go to the Scottish parliament for four or five years and become the father of the nation”
    Senior Labour source

    https://archive.today/tgSr0

  142. gerry parker says:

    Any media types care to do a Pareto analysis and tell us the 20% of Daily Record advertisers who generate the 80% of their revenue.

    That was we would know who to target.

  143. gerry parker says:

    that way

  144. Hetty says:

    Onwards @12.21pm
    You mention that Edinburgh could have been a buzzing capital city had it been a yes vote.( we all knew Edinburgh would not be a big yes vote at all).
    Indeed a distant dream now. In fact, Edinburgh is looking decidedly run down, shops and offices are empty and we are talking main central streets like George st and even Princes st, the side streets are even worse, if you look up it is quite shocking for a capital city. Investment, new business, where are they? It is quite clear we are anything but better together.

  145. Morag says:

    I had one lady, who had come home to Scotland after 30 years living in the south of England, gesture around and point to the poor infrastructure as proof that Scotland couldn’t be a viable country. Obviously if we didn’t have the motorways and the railways and the prestigious buildings of the south-east, we were too poor.

    I tried to explain to her, because she said she was a “heart Yes”, but it all sounds way too much like a conspiracy theory for the average over-the-garden-gate conversation.

    She still seemed sceptical when I left. Later I found out her name and posted a personal copy of the WBB to her, so there’s a possibility she figured it out, but I don’t know. It’s very difficult to show people that everything the media and the journalists are telling them is a pack of lies.

  146. Cadogan Enright says:

    what a great idea for rebutting the 3/4 Tory parties at Westminster

    “English MPs should only vote to spend English tax revenue!”

    That is a thought that needs to be developed by those smarter than I.

  147. Kenny says:

    To all those who say we couldn’t govern ourselves: so my mind playing tricks with me and we DIDN’T run our own country in medieval times, actually for longer than we have been in the union with England? And we somehow managed to do it a a time when we were not exporting oil, whisky, electricity… We might be a bit rusty now, but I am sure the National Archives of Scotland have some old documents we can read up on and maybe try to remember how it is done…. Or just do whatever they did in former colonies like India, which is now exploring space… Anyway, it is a fact that the motorways and prestigious buildings of the SE were paid for by Scottish oil…. and the Channel Tunnel and the M25…

  148. osakisushi says:

    @morag
    I had to smile at your comment “It’s very difficult to show people that everything the media and the journalists are telling them is a pack of lies.”

    I wrote some software to analyse stock market movements and that is exactly the default position I took. What was funny came from the detail that once I’d eradicated everything except cold arithmetic, I produced something which is exceedingly accurate in what it does. The horrifying thing is, despite my track record, the average punter tells me it’s not possible…
    This is an argument I no longer try to win as people like to cling to their core beliefs.

  149. Rock says:

    If we want to win next time, such well researched and accurate articles should me made available to the entire electorate, not just online to mainly Yes supporters reading W O S.

    A free widely circulated printed ‘newsletter’ is a must, and the sooner one appears, the better.

    It need only deal with matters affecting Scotland and be brief and to the point (as is the case with all Stuart’s articles).

    In other words, just a printed version of the day’s W O S articles, freely available like the Metro.

    Can we please make this our top priority now.

  150. Luigi says:

    osakishushi

    You got it in one:

    core beliefs

    That is what we are up against. BBC MSM lies and misinformation do not create core beliefs, but they certainly can reinforce them. Core beliefs make some people cling to the union, they make others cling to the Labour party, when it no longer makes any sense. Core beliefs can be changed, but it takes considerable time and effort. There is no easy way, I’m afraid. We just have to keep chipping away at the union (as we have done for the past 50 years!).

    The good news is that many NO voters do not have these particular core beliefs – they just did not think things through in time (even though they had two years) and decided to stay with the devil they knew. This error of judgment is becoming clearer to them with each passing day.

  151. Sharry says:

    I’ve always thought there was one way traffic on this. How much did we pay towards the new jubilee line, the dome, Wembley being redone, the channel tunnel,South bank centre and national theatre etc.

  152. @ osakisushi
    `This is an argument I no longer try to win as people like to cling to their core beliefs.`

    It is called Cognitive Dissonance .

    In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

  153. Ali says:

    if only this information was able to somehow reach the unconverted. At least it might serve to retain the focus of the 45

    This is exactly what I had in mind when I thought Wings should continue on as a sort “Westminster Watch”. By keeping an eye on them I’m sure there is no shortage of material on exactly how we are getting shafted

  154. Chic McGregor says:

    Robert and David

    I remember a whistle blow/leak from some authoritative source that there was some grand Westminster/Whitehall social engineering plan to downsize Glasgow. But this was many years ago, probably more than 10, and I cannot even remember where I saw it.

    Possibly the long extinct Scotpol forum or Our Scotland?

  155. Paul Rutherford says:

    Scotland, England, and a mention or two for N Ireland.

    Does anyone remember Wales? We’re about to get shafted again with Westminster cutting the pittance they give us which is less than you get in Scotland per head I think.

    Scotland and Wales have no chance of more devo or independence if the Tories get back into Westminster in a coalition with UKIP LibDems or whoever. They’ll change the law or something to make it impossible, quoting that Scotland said ‘no’, because Westminster needs Scottish oil which props up all the extra borrowing Osborne has been doing. More in last 4 years than 15 of Labour.

    But like it says in the article, only a power station for Wales. The money does get spent in England and most around London.

    Anyway, my point was Don’t forget Wales!

  156. Will Podmore says:

    Grouse Beater writes, “Considering the wealth he (Brown) took from the masses to give to bankrupt and criminal bankers, the whole of the UK would be the richer.” True! Completely agree! And together, we can beat the bankers – but if we continue to act as if we were two separate countries (which the majority of Scots decided we are not), they would win.

  157. Tackety Beets says:

    @ W plod !
    Talk p@@h somewhere else .
    The WM / UK are doing FA about banking corruption .
    Go hassle your Good for FA MP .

    As we say In our wee bit o North Britain. ” Gie yersel peece ”

    Cheerio

  158. Will Podmore says:

    Tackety Beets suggests that I hassle my MP. Does Tackety Beets really think that hassling our MPs makes a blind bit of difference? I do not look to my MP for salvation. Relying on MPs, MSPs, MEPs to do our politics for us is why we are in the mess we are in.
    Why does any worker look to Westminster, or Holyrood or Brussels, to do the job for us?
    The parliamentary road leads only to parliament, whether that parliament is based in London, Edinburgh or Brussels. Workers never won their rights by delegating the struggle to MPs. The MPs had to be made to ratify the rights. When we started relying on MPs, we started to lose our rights.

  159. Tackety Beets says:

    @ W Pod

    You misunderstood or miss read my brief post !

    I certainly meant your MP is good for FA either singularly or collectively !

    Chompin yer gums about BT to bring bankers to heal on hear will achieve even less .

    Dinna bother wi a smart Alec answer as you just twist words to suit some self serving agenda that only you understand .

    Cheers big ears .

    Cheerio , cheerio .

  160. Will Podmore says:

    Sorry Tackety Beets – I agree with you that MPs are good for nothing – all of them.
    And I agree with you about bankers – What do you call ten bankers at the bottom of the sea? A start.

  161. frankie goes to holyrood says:

    Putting general English transport infrastructure into the NIP budget removes it from the Barnett calculations.

    The UK government Select Committee on the Barnett Formula:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/

    …has a recommendation (2.6) on page 5 that states:

    2.6 Recommendation: “On every funding decision the Treasury is judge in its own cause, including whether to bypass or include any expenditure within the application of the Barnett formula. We recommend that before decisions are made on whether the system is bypassed or creates a consequential payment there is a clear process and open consultation with the devolved administrations. “



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