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Be sure the truth will find you out

Posted on October 15, 2014 by

This morning’s Daily Record has a rather panicky-sounding editorial complaining that Yes supporters, from the First Minister down, are refusing to “move on” from the referendum result and are complaining about “betrayal”, especially in the light of yesterday’s joke of a Commons debate. The Record calls for unity and also talks, hilariously, of the “settled will of the Scottish people”.

(What is it, exactly, that the will of the Scottish people is meant to have settled on, given that they had and still have no idea which powers a No vote would bring?)


It rather smacks of the accused in a murder trial saying “Look, sure, I killed and butchered your wife and children, but that was MONTHS ago, let’s just forget about it and get back to normal”, but it’s not actually the point.

Because it’s not the referendum result that most people feel betrayed by. It’s not even the behaviour of the Unionist parties since the vote.

The entity in the dock here is the Daily Record itself – which still claims to be the most-read newspaper in Scotland, although the Scottish Sun sells more copies – and it’s charged with the serious crime of knowingly and deliberately lying to the people of Scotland, while proclaiming itself to be their “Champion”.

In a rather irritable piece for the Spectator, which takes much the same line as the Record editorial but from a different angle, commentator Alex Massie makes a fair and accurate point with regard to the infamous “Vow” that the Record made its front page splash just days before the referendum:

“There is plenty of flannel there and, rather tellingly, no details of any importance at all. It is not a commitment to devo max of any variety, far less the kind of commitment Yes people want you to believe is being betrayed right now. It is a promise to do something of some sort at some point in the foreseeable and predictable future. It says we will get on with this and get back to you before the general election in May.”

This is absolutely correct, and we pointed it out in detail at the time. The “Vow” actually said nothing. It was a vague, woolly and clumsy attempt to wrap up the three Westminster parties’ months-old devolution proposals into a few all-encompassing paragraphs. As such, it was an accurate statement of no actual meaningful content.

But restating months-old policy positions isn’t news, let alone front page lead news. The Daily Record’s problem is that it pretended it was, and it knew exactly what it was doing – deliberately setting out to mislead (and indeed directly lie to) the Scottish people, knowing that the lie would be picked up by the rest of the media.

Let’s break down what the story actually said, starting with the headline.

“David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg sign joint historic promise which guarantees more devolved powers for Scotland and protection of NHS if we vote No”

This is a lie on just about every level. Firstly, as far as we can tell there was no actual document that anyone actually signed. But even if we let that one slide as journalistic licence, the underlying claim is still utterly false. A political “promise” carries no weight and “guarantees” nothing. Politicians break them all the time.

The article then goes on to firmly assert the Record’s ownership of “The Vow”:

“Westminster’s main party leaders today set aside their differences to promise that a No vote will mean a stronger Scottish Parliament and total protection for the NHS.

David Cameron , Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have signed up to a historic joint statement that was demanded by the Daily Record on behalf of the people of Scotland.

In their own words, they pledge to work together to transfer more powers to Holyrood if Scots reject independence on Thursday.”

Let’s be super-generous and assume that the Record’s political editor Davie Clegg, who penned the article, is actually a 10-year-old with a learning disability and therefore took these promises at face value.

(Perhaps he’s Nick Clegg’s cousin or something, and is the last person in Britain who still believes anything he “pledges”. After all, it’s not like anyone knew that the Tories were desperate to implement “English votes for English laws” in the event that the threat of independence were ever to be lifted.)

“The Prime Minister, his Lib Dem deputy and the Labour leader also promise to ensure that no one other than the Scottish Parliament can cut vital public services such as the NHS.”

Given that the Unionist parties were at this stage banging on until they were blue in the face about how the NHS was already devolved in Scotland, it’s rather curious that three Westminster leaders were claiming to be able to offer “protection” of it at all. The Record doesn’t seem to have raised the point, though.

“The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.

The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour.

It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.”

There’s the claim of ownership again, this time shared with Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour – not all three parties, not UK Labour, but specifically Johann Lamont’s branch office. But it’s the last line that’s key – the Record unequivocally presents the document as a guarantee that “Scotland will be given much more control over its future”, repeating the statement for emphasis immediately afterwards:

“Brown has already outlined a fast-tracked timetable for transferring more powers from Westminster to Holyrood if Scots vote No .

This new pledge means that all the parties with a chance of forming the next UK government have guaranteed the ‘extensive’ new powers will be put on the statute book next year.”

This is, of course, complete drivel from top to bottom. Brown’s “timetable” was for DISCUSSING powers, not TRANSFERRING them. (It could only be, as the powers to be transferred were, and are still, not agreed upon.) As a largely-absent opposition backbencher he has no power to implement the timetable anyway. And note how the Record sneakily puts “extensive” in quote marks in a feeble and craven attempt to cover itself, yet still talks in the language of “guarantees”.

And in case we’re still not sure who the Record is telling us to believe, this follows:

“The joint statement also rubbishes claims from the SNP that the Barnett Formula for calculating Scotland’s budget could be changed to leave us less money for public services.

It pledges: ‘Because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.'”

It’s difficult to concisely cover all the lies and mistruths in those two short sentences. As far as we’re aware, the SNP never said that the Barnett Formula would itself be changed. As this site pointed out extensively before the referendum, the Formula itself will stay the same under new devolution plans, but would apply to a smaller proportion of the Scottish budget, meaning that the Scottish Government’s revenue would fall even though the Formula technically remained unchanged.

This was of course confirmed just days later:


And the second line is just gibberish. The Scottish Government will of course be able to decide how much to spend on the NHS, within the budget available to it. If that overall budget is slashed by London, as it will be, there’s nothing Holyrood can do about it. (Obviously it COULD theoretically find the money by, say, closing all of the country’s schools or raising the basic rate of income tax in Scotland to 60%, but neither plan is actually workable.)

The rest of the article is basically a party political broadcast for Gordon Brown, so we won’t drag this piece out unnecessarily by going through it all. But the Record’s intent is unmistakeable – it’s telling people that it’s safe to vote No, in the certain knowledge of extensive and meaningful new powers for the Scottish Parliament. And you’d need to have the IQ of a sparrow with Alzheimer’s Disease to legitimately reach that conclusion from the few pitiful paragraphs of empty waffle in “The Vow”, so it can only have been the Daily Record’s own view.

The newspaper, while being too cowardly and afraid of a backlash to actually just nail its colours to the mast and declare openly for a No vote, did everything in its power to bring one about, by deliberately feeding voters a false impression, and got what it wanted. As the entirely predictable reality takes shape, it’s now trying to frantically backpedal, deny, bluster and justify its way out of responsibility for having done so.

We suspect it won’t be able to pull another lie off so soon after the last one.

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254 to “Be sure the truth will find you out”

  1. Baheid says:

    Oh what a tangled web…

  2. Dervheid says:

    This is the bit that I think that 90% of (SLAB mostly) Unionists still don’t get, especially when whinging on about the Scottish Government:
    “The Scottish Government will of course be able to decide how much to spend on the NHS, within the budget available to it. If that overall budget is slashed by London, as it will be, there’s nothing Holyrood can do about it. (Obviously it COULD theoretically find the money by, say, closing all of the country’s schools or raising the basic rate of income tax in Scotland to 60%, but neither plan is actually workable.)”
    If we could actually get them to see this basic concept…

  3. Rod says:

    They made their bed, now let them lie in it. Or can they at all be brave enough to admit they lied, and at least apologise to those who voted No on the strength of “The Vow”, and to actually tell the truth the next time!

  4. Training Day says:

    Man, I’m glad you’re back.

    As I don’t normally peruse the Retard, I hadn’t actually realised they’d used the sentence ‘the agreement was brokered by former Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour.’

    That, right there, should be the epitaph for ‘Scottish’ Labour. Or, to borrow Ambrose Bierce’s mock epitaph on a colleague: ‘Here lies ‘Scottish’ Labour – as usual’.

  5. handclapping says:

    Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to decieve.

    And its good to see Gordy getting back to his level of competence, he saved the world, he’s saved the Union, now he’s down to saving the Labour Party. Soon he’ll be saving Dalgety Bay or else he’ll be trying to save his deposit.

    Kirkcaldy SNP more than 1000 members. Tick tock, Gordon, tick tock, neither the Record nor your record will save you

  6. Solomon says:

    Why do you suspect that the Record won’t lie again anytime soon? Surely the only lesson they have learned is that lying works perfectly fine?

  7. HandandShrimp says:

    The Record must have known it was participating in naked political propaganda of Stalinist proportions when it splashed the Vow thing on the front page and exhorted its readership to vote No. I simply don’t believe it was conned. It was an active participant in the con. They are every inch as culpable as the three amigos.

  8. gordoz says:

    I concur with these points whole heartedly Rev; So well researched & written. Cracking work gets to the eart of the media and hwo gullable DR readers are.

    Still can’t understand how in affairs of state such as electioneering etc. it is not an offence to actually lie.

    I know full well issues are spun and smke and mirrors are used at times by all but. The DR are guilty of going beyond electioneering and telling out and out lies. Again what counterweight everyday media outlet (other than this online) is there to challenge and be noticed by the public.

    We all know that due to the insestuous links between BBC and the papers this will not recieve the requitred investigateve scrutiny such as this. Only limited coverage might appear in a certain Sunday paper (perhaps?).

    The problem is Rev – Joe Soap still reads the papers and will swallow the DR Guff as normal.

    If we cannot smash the press, stranlge the press (by NOT BUYING PAPERS), then we need to be the pres; ie you need to be the press.

    I still think we need a true impartial PAPER, not a YES paper, just dont know how to do it but pretty sure that 1.6m readers might pay 40/50p a day for such a thing.

    £600,000 to £800,000 income a day possibly lets say not so many and even £400,000 a day that sounds like good money to me.

    Untill we get a decent paper, we’ll always struggle; even with the power of the net. Why cause the journos and TV still refer and rely on the papers.

  9. Albaman says:

    Hey man, that time out you took Stew really,really was worth while.

  10. Jim Thomson says:

    When does the next set of circulation figures for the DR get published, and where?

  11. No no no...Yes says:

    Welcome back indeed.This searing analysis is why we all need to get Wings to the NO voters, especially those who were duped by Broon.
    The work to get rid of Labour starts now, and this is a great start to the campaign.
    CONGRATS TO NICOLA,she will be even more effective that Alex Salmond.

  12. Peter Sneddon says:

    The establishment media are the new enemy.

  13. desimond says:

    “It was a different time back then, a different government, a different Prime Minister even and I think its agreed that now its time we all moved on together” – The UK Prime Minister Downing Street June 2015

    re “claims to be the most-read newspaper in Scotland, although the Scottish Sun sells more copies” So does giving away copies at airports count now just like they do with The Daily Mirror (huch spit!) in England.

  14. Ken MacColl says:

    Come on, Rev!

    That the Daily Wrecker fudges and Torcuil Crichton dissembles is hardly news! They do it on a daily basis and people actually pay them for it.

    I watched the “debate” yesterday but not for long. Theyare all back on the carousel. Fourteen pints Hague led the charge, presumably because he is from Oop North. As you would expect, the principal architects of The Vow were nowhere to be seen and somehow Crash Gordon must have found his bus pass and got to Westminster for a rare outing.His feigned distress at the reaction to his Union saving gambit was a sight to see.The Honourable members from England clearly think that the Scotch problem is sorted, signed, sealed and delivered.
    Sir Ming insisted that he was on the case but I suspect he will be in the Upper House next June.

  15. McHaggis says:

    I read recently the DR is showing the fastest fall in sales of all newspapers in Scotland.

    Further, I see they are no sponsoring tweets to encourage people to buy the paper – desperate times for sure.

    In essence though, I do feel that people are being somewhat blinkered in believing the daily Record single handedly brought about a ‘No’ vote. They were no more or less nakedly pro-union than every other paper in Scotland (save Sunday Herald), or the BBC.

    Their front page vow was read by a small minority of voters who probably would vote ‘No’ under *any* circumstances anyway.

    I think the best that can be said is the Record participated in a week long orgy of media scaremongering and ‘No’ bias.

    Having said all that, it is clearly hurting them now as there is something of a boycott gaining momentum in buying this rag so overall, happy days – they will reap what they sowed.

  16. CyBOS says:

    The Daily Record is now trying to paint itself as the champion of Scotland!

    Look how it turns on and attacks one of its own in a desperate attempt to halt the massive sales decline.

    Better Together leader Alistair Darling fails to turn up at big debate on devolution

    It’s a cack handed attempt to weasel its way back in with the 45%. We have long memories over here in the Yes camp.

  17. Macart says:

    No doubt about it, the Record owns the vow.

    They deliberately set out to mislead and obfuscate in pursuit of a preferred political outcome… ‘Scotland’s Champion’.

    If ever a claim sounded so hollow and meaningless its that one – Scotland’s Champion. I hope they gag on that name.

  18. AllyPally says:

    Do you think the Scotsman’s owners would sell it? It must be a dwindling resource.

    Could we crowdfund it? Stu, how would you like to be editor?

  19. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    You are right, Gordoz. It is certainly do-able. As I said in a previous post tabloid newspapers physically cost around 1p per page to print. But acquiring a running title is the best idea. Starting a new title means you start with no subscribers.

    It is far past time in my opinion to start taking some of the papers out. I would happily crowd fund for a “NOT the Daily Record” to be distributed across Scotland. Stu’s article on “the vow” (“the lie”)could be the main comment but there is miles of stuff that could be used.

    It’s time the press was made to be frightened of our strength.
    After all one voter in twenty in Scotland is now a member of the SNP.

    I suspect the SUN is moving in to take the Record down.

  20. Patrick says:

    An update on my attempts to get another media institution to recognise their flaws:

    Be interesting to see how they respond to this.

  21. Atypical_Scot says:

    No wonder the GE has not been rescheduled, the Tories have Labour over a barrel.

    If Labour does not offer near federalism, then it risks losing further voters/seats to the SNP (as is happening) in even greater droves, increasing Tory dominance in the HOC, or, if Labour holds to that ‘vow’, they will be disenfranchising the good people of the rUK, increasing a right wing backlash across the rUK.

    All fresh in mind as the ‘vow’must be realised by the GE.

    Goodbye Labour.

  22. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Has anybody seen the “Scottish” Express recently. Surely they are taking the piss. There is surely not 85,000 people that stupid in Scotland to believe any of bonkers stuff in it.

  23. Betty Boop says:

    Has a decent amount of time now passed that I can write on my large, white Yes sign, still displayed and facing the length of my street, “TOLD YOU SO!”

  24. frankieboy says:

    Torcuil Crichton and Marcus Gardham, the two anagrams that plotted against Scotland. I will cheer when both their papers die.

  25. yerkitbreeks says:

    Thank goodness you’re back in usual incisive form. But we Jocks should know our place and know for sure that such terms as ” command paper ” mean something robust !

    I am reading John Blackie’s ” The Scottish Highlanders and the Land Laws ” (1885 ) at the moment and as with Paton’s 1968 ” Claim of Scotland ” the tenor is contemporary in phrases such as :

    “And, if those who ought to have guided public taste in the social centres of our Highland glens shared so frequently this lamentable want of self-esteem, we shall be less disposed to wonder when we find even grave historians like John Burton blotting his fair page with shallow sneers and sharp sarcasms at a people whose noble character he either could not or would not comprehend. ”

    I’m afraid in watching the likes of The Spectator’s commentator on tele I had the notion that sneering might still be in fashion.

  26. diz says:

    if we are to forget the past, that includes forgetting the Act of Union and moving on as if we’ve never lost our sovereignty. Sounds decent to me :p

  27. ronnie anderson says:

    PMQs today,now who,s puting in a appearance Cameron,Milliband,Clegg. Calling Mr Brown any questions to the Pish Takers.

  28. I have little faith in Westminster delivering on their vague promises, for that to happen the people would need to be the focus not political parties.
    I do have hopes for the Smith commission however see it as a staying action, that will not deliver until after the GE when we will be locked into another Government, not of our choice, who may or may not accept Smith’s recommendations unaltered.
    Surely it is to Europe we should look, where when a referendum does not deliver the right result then a second referendum is held to deliver the desired result as was the case in Ireland.

  29. sydthesnake says:

    Daily Record “the most RED paper in Scotland” maybe it has more red on it’s front page than the others, I wouldn’t know because like thousands of others I don’t Fu##ing buy any of them anymore.

  30. Robert Peffers says:

    The Daily Record has written its own obituary and in doing so may well also have written that of the London Labour Party in Scotland, Gordon Brown and the Labour Leadership of Fife Council.

    Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock!

    Daily Record circulation figures – going down.
    Labour Party in Scotland membership figures – going down.
    Polls of voting intentions show Labour votes – going down.

    Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock!

  31. Luigi says:

    This is clear a case of deliberate misleading of the public by a newspaper imaginable (and it was not imagined). Absolutely despicable behaviour. Anything it takes eh?

    Well, it’s about time for an organised boycott of the DR – starting in Glasgow of course. Let’s not just wait for people to stop buying it – let’s spread the facts and encourage people to shun it completely.

    Oh and another slogan that may resonate with people in Glasgow:

    Red Tories Out

    And again we cannot wait for the penny to drop with DevoMax supporters. We need to start sowing the seeds in people’s minds now, not in three months time when the BBC MSM ramps up a gear again to protect Labour in Scotland.

    Let’s figure out ways of sowing the seeds now.

  32. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    That has made me think;

    “The Dailyrecord itself – and it’s charged with the serious crime of knowingly and deliberately lying to the people of Scotland, while proclaiming itself to be their “Champion”.”

    Could we not set up a mock trial, a form of public theatre, scripted by Yesers (lots of good people in the theatrical area) and perform it, video it and see if it will fly, then crowdfund a tour of Scotland with free entry to pensioners, you know the ones who only read the inky fingered press and believe it all. All others would have to pay, unless they had no living wage?

    Then in the play we could have a running sarcastic jokes with hook lines about the BBC.

    Attack the MSM and the BBC full frontal.

    Great choices?

  33. Morag says:

    Whatever the Record is doing, it’s not working. Not at the moment anyway.

    I’ve been a bit scathing about people putting small unweighted Scottish subsamples of UK-wide GE polls into the electoral calculus site, and coming up with silly numbers of SNP MPs predicted for May. However, there comes a point when repeated polls of this nature all showing more or less the same thing do acquire a degree of significance.

    Scot Goes Pop has a post up with the subsamples for NINE of these polls pooled, polls that have been carried out within the last week so they’re bang up to date. I can’t see an overall number of respondents but it must be getting close to 1000. The figures still aren’t weighted of course, but they’re bloody interesting all the same.

    SNP 42.8%
    Labour 27.0%
    Conservatives 15.7%
    Liberal Democrats 7.0%
    UKIP 4.3%
    Greens 2.1%

    As the article goes on to point out, that sort of lead cannot survive a GE campaign banging on about “the three main parties” and the debates all excluding the SNP, but it’s still not a bad position to be in.

  34. davidb says:

    Newspapers are history. Their revenue comes from ads, not sales. They need sales like google needs clicks, so as to command high rates from advertisers.

    Might I suggest we sophisticate up the boycotting? Take a rag like the Record. Arnold Clark is a big advertiser. Lobby them. Buy a car from someone who doesn’t advertise with the DR.

    Newspapers are owned by opinionated rich men because their vanity is as deep as their pockets. Forget any notion of buying a title. I saw research recently showing the date when t was predicted newspapers would be extinct. Only in India I think it was, are they likely to have any life in them.

    Make witty, interesting unmissable websites. The Yes campaign won with the tech connected, not the readers of fish-wrappers. The over 60 demographic is being reshaped daily as No Luddites are replaced by Yes Silver Surfers. We have time on our side.

    But newspapers? Hey lets pin our articles to the merkat cross in every Royal Burgh.

  35. Murray McCallum says:

    As the cheerleaders for the masters of presentation over substance – New British One Nation (but Independent Scottish) Labour – it’s little wonder the Daily Record find themselves in this situation.

    They really don’t seem to have thought about the long term implications of their front page splash.

    The lack of substance, detail or content in the Daily Record front page “Vow” splash is not the issue but rather they appeared to have manufactured something from nothing at a critical time in our history.

  36. annie says:

    Scottish Questions on just now at Westminster, usual Nat bashing. Still no respect.

  37. Devorgilla says:

    We’re going to hear a lot more of this phrase, ‘the settled will of the Scottish people’.

    And we must hold their feet to the fire over it. 45% voting Yes is not ‘settled will’. They are attempting a cover up. They are in denial that they nearly lost, and are trying to ‘big up’ a ten point lead. But 55% is not a super-majority.

    Watching Monday’s House of Lords debate on this (even more dire) Helen Liddle was most concerned that ‘we recognise who won, and that it is the settled will of the Scottish people to remain a part of the United Kingdom. I mention this because there are those separatists who are refusing to accept the result, and are not behaving as if they had lost’ (or words to this effect).

    Yes defiance, and the closeness of the result, has got the establishment rattled, as Scotland refuses to go back into the box.

  38. Helena Brown says:

    Well Daily Record, you never owned the YES support so you have absolutely nothing to say whether we continue to campaign or not, so just b*gger off.
    Looking at the comments yesterday if I were a member of “Scottish” Labour I would now be wondering what and why I campaigned for remaining in this Union. The Tory Party who are often described as the stupid party have now done a Lib Dem on them. I for one will giggle myself stupid as all of these big hitters are about to be scuppered by English Law etc.

  39. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Jim Thomson

    They next few figures will be massaged to allow the slump in sales to be seen as a gradual decline.

    Be prepared to get a free Mars Bar, Irn Bru, breakfast cereal bar, fries with your Big Mac and promotional copies everywhere to keep their “sales figures” artificially high.

  40. John says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill

    “acquiring a running title is the best idea”…

    Here are the candidates:

    There’s not much available. I do like the sound of the (Scottish) Independent – current circulation 3215. WTF

  41. Devorgilla says:

    The ‘settled will of the Scottish people’ dates back to the Hallowed John Smith, leader-that-never-was, and the Hallowed Donald Dewar, leader-that-was, and architect of the Scottish Parliament, and the 1998 referendum that Labour were forced to implement, when around 75% of the Scottish electorate voted Yes.

    Helen Liddle and her cronies are numerically challenged if they can’t spot the difference between a super majority of 75% and a less than overwhelming majority of only 55%.

    But so intellectually challenged are they, that they have to retrieve the discourse of the 1990s to justify their wafer thin position today.

    What a rotten, mean, mendacious bunch.

  42. Valerie says:

    @ Patrick well done! Didn’t realise you were a Winger. Just read the update in my email, and thought it was brilliant.

    Well written Rev. Puts the responsibility for those swallowing the Vow where it should sit.

    A thing that is beginning to really ramble, is this constant mud slinging, that the Yes movement will not move on – we bloody well have, it’s just that the No contingent resent our asking questions. Which goes back to the point, this is not a democracy.

  43. schrodingers cat says:

    cant archive that daily retard link to darlings absence
    all i get is a survey

    anyone know a way round this?

  44. Valerie says:

    Sorry I meant rankle

  45. fred blogger says:

    an excellent de-construction of the reality of the (MT) VOW.
    the DR has no place to hide.
    anyone who was @ the scene 2wks prior to the indyref vote, will know that the no vote was NOT as a result of the SETTLED will of the scottish people, it was anything but.
    as robert peffers et al rightly assert, power devolved is power retained.
    devolved powers and indeed the parliament can be swept away @ a moments notice, by imperialist WM.

  46. tombee says:

    The Daily Record!! I wouldn’t use it to pick up dog shit with.
    I couldn’t anyway, because I don’t buy newspapers now.

  47. Find out who is the biggest advertiser (somebody might have to buy a copy eugh)in the Daily Record and write/email to them that you will not use their product/services and why.
    1.6 million (according to corrupt ballot) Yes supporters boycotting said product/services would make them think twice about putting their advertising budget into Daily Record and hastening its demise.

    Same goes for the North British.

  48. chalks says:


    I disagree, they are directly responsible for it as their front page was picked up by every TV channel as well as Better Together who also campaigned on those very promises.

  49. Niall Maclennan says:

    This from a Gordon Brown interview with Gloria De Piero, New Statesman, 14th July 2008.

    ‘Earlier that day, I sat beside him on the back seat of a blue armour-plated/bulletproof Jaguar, surrounded by police outriders and protection officers, as he made a series of calls to the editors of Scottish newspapers, while we hurtled towards Heathrow. Each conversation followed a similar pattern: some small talk about football, followed by a serious chat about the importance of the Union and the threat the SNP poses to the future of the country’.

    This about sums it up for me.
    The more I reflect on what has just passed the more incensed I am about the roll of the MSM.

  50. piggy says:


  51. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Might be an idea to continue intensifying DR indybuycott efforts, while at the same time also giving the daily Herald similar treatment.

    Anybody think that the DH might then be forced to join the SH in terms of going pro-Indy, in order to survive?

    Hey presto, a pro-Indy daily, without having to start one from scratch.

    Imagine the money the DH would make if YESsers bought it Mon-Sat.

    Just sayin’

  52. schrodingers cat says:

    I’ve been a bit scathing about people putting small unweighted Scottish subsamples of UK-wide GE polls into the electoral calculus site, and coming up with silly numbers of SNP MPs predicted for May. However, there comes a point when repeated polls of this nature all showing more or less the same thing do acquire a degree of significance.

    i’ve been posting the exact results for the previous elections in both wm and hr for precicely the same reasons. the ge is a fptp election and as such proportional polls for the whole of scotland only give hope but each constituency should be treated on an individual bases.
    i do realise that comparing uk and holyrood constituencies is easier in some areas than others

  53. donald anderson says:

    After each failed rebellion was crushed. The Loyalists used to cry, “Croppy Lie Down”.

    No. Nae. Never.
    No Nae Never Nae No More.
    Will I lie down for the Union.
    No Nae Never. Never Nae More.
    I’ll never Live under this Union.
    Nor listen to Waffle and Bore.

  54. jackie g says:

    just saw something which said dead ED has a sore throat maybe why he did not turn up yesterday? more important than the ‘VOW’ you made pre sept 18th hypocrite.

    Friend says BBC only comment on yesterday was of course focused on Gordon Brown and his devolution for England.

    I have refused to watch anything with that man in it but am reliably informed he is now looking and behaving like a complete headcase rambling utter pish no change there then.

  55. fred blogger says:

    to DR, Chick, Chick, Chick, Chick, Chicken.

  56. Andy Nimmo says:

    Apologies in advance. I actually went out and purchased the Record to scrutinise their statements.
    Their hypocrisy and double standards is awesome in the duplicity shown.
    The ‘Record View’ Editorial is divided into two distinct messages.
    The first headlined ‘ It’s Time to move on and reunite’ claims that ‘a commission to deliver more powers is up and running, a timetable has been agreed and a debate on what these powers should be is ongoing. Indeed there was a substantial one in the Commons yesterday.’.
    How many lies/half truths can you count in that statement.
    The second piece is headlined Poverty Priority and states that the extent of poverty in Scotland is a national scandal and insists that Nicola Sturgeon treats this as her number one priority.
    Message to the lying hypocritical Record :-
    The YES Campaign campaigned on making Scotland a fairer society. If you hadn’t lied, tricked and smeared the decent people of this country we would have been on track to deliver these things already.

  57. @ Patrick
    Brilliantly put together complaint to BBC.
    Nick Robinson is just another oxbridge Establishment Stooge.
    President of the Oxford University Conservative Association.
    Nuff said.

  58. bookie from hell says:

    Scottish Questions Westminster

    a tory MP asked for the criminal act to be used against yes supporters

  59. Dcanmore says:

    With the Daily Record being Labour and Unionist things were getting a bit squeaky bum in the days leading up to the referendum so the DR had to do its duty to the union and the Labour Party, really it was self interest protectionism.

    The self proclaimed ‘Scotland’s Champion’ doesn’t give a fig about Scotland, it only cares about the Labour Party and its position within the union, the trick for them is to turn that into sales. You can see how the hegemony worked for decades. Labour placemen in the Daily Record and the BBC. It’s different now, sales are falling, people are turning away from the DR and the Labour Party in droves and now both are in a constant state of panic.

    Get rid: BBC, Labour Party, Daily Record … the skeletal backbone corrupt unionism in Scotland.

  60. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “cant archive that daily retard link to darlings absence
    all i get is a survey

    anyone know a way round this?”

    You have to type the headlines into Google. That’ll let you get access to the cached versions, which are what I’ve linked to in this piece.

  61. desimond says:


    No dig but I would really like to hear how you have hope and confidence in The Smith Commission.

    How many invitees put Scotlands needs as their priority? 4 perhaps?

  62. Robert Peffers says:

    Anyone know a reason why only one of my three computers requires me to always have to enter my name & e-mail address when all three are on the same wired home network and the other two auto-insert the data?

  63. Caledonia says:

    Usually buy the Record for the sport but have decided today no more
    In fact i will buy the sun at least it was more fair and not a lying corrupt paper that the record has become

    I know of a few people who voted no because of the vow and now they feel betrayed by the paper that is supposed to represent them

  64. Les Wilson says:

    Excellent, and much deserved gutting of the D/R.
    I hope their worst fears are laid upon them. Cowards

  65. desimond says:

    Nicola Sturgeon “REVENGE” Tour 2015 – Tickets free

    The largest event in the series will be a capacity crowd of 12,000 at The SSE Hydro in Glasgow, making it the biggest indoor political gathering held in Scotland – or indeed anywhere in the UK – in recent times.

    Wednesday 29 October, Corn Exchange

    Friday 31 October, Easterbrook Hall

    Friday 7 November, Caird Hall

    Monday 10 November, Eden Court Theatre

    Saturday 22 November, The SSE Hydro

    Sunday 7 December, Music Hall

    In addition, on Tuesday 11 November, I’ll take part in an online interview and Facebook Q&A session for new members in rural and remote parts of Scotland.

  66. desimond says:

    Should be 2014, but you get my drift!

  67. Morag says:

    Schrodinger’s cat, I think electoral calculus works on the basis of a uniform swing. I don’t see how else they can do it. Of course the swing won’t be uniform, but the numebr of seats may nevertheless be in the right ball park. We may not get Mundell (unless UKIP make real inroads into splitting the Tory vote), but we may get places like Inverclyde and Airdrie, both of which show Labour hanging on by their fingernails on the same numbers.

  68. Macart says:

    @Andy Nimmo

    ‘Time to move on and reunite’?

    I’ll pass on the Record’s plea. There will be no moving on so long as Labour and the media are strangling the life out of Scotland. As for substantial debate in the Commons…(mutters darkly).

  69. Cuilean says:

    The only thing Brown is interested in, is the UK Labour party. UK Labour, thinly disguised as Scottish Labour, (by the way, Scottish Labour Party will never reveal their Scottish members’ numbers and apparently it has imploded since the Referendum), is heading for oblivion in Scotland, after Brown’s mendacious intervention, before 18th September, when he gulled already terrified OAPs & other Scots, that a ‘No’ vote would lead, within 5 months, (he promised) to Homerule and a federal UK.

    All lies of course, proven by the fact that Scottish Labour’s proposals to the Smith Commission, revert back to their measly income tax varying & housing benefit powers, first proposed, (to widespread derision) way back in Spring 2013.. Brown and London politicos really DO think Scots heads button up the back.

    At a huge YES rally in Glasgow last Sunday, the people of Scotland amply demonstrated their aspirations have not been ‘put back in a box for a generation’. The centre of Glasgow was awash with YES voters and now converted NO voters, appalled at the speed of the UK’s reverting to type and broken vows. Christ, we even had Brown appealing to Scots last week to sign an online petition for the ‘new powers’ HE promised them! Surreal!

    Prior to The Ref, the SNP membership was £25,000. It is now over 80,000 and they expect to reach 100,000 by Christmas. 80,000 is more than UKIP or the UK Liberal parties’ combined membership. Yet the Unionists propaganda machine, the BBC, has again sidelined Scots aspirations, by not including the SNP or Greens into their ‘Leaders’ debates, i.e. the future ‘Leaders’ the BBC wants you to have, not what the people of Scotland demand.

    The ‘NO’ vote was won through FEAR and False Promises now broken. The break up of the UK is now inevitable. The VOW of 16th September 2014, signed by the ‘three amigo’ oath-breakers, Cameron, Clegg & Milliband is now a worthless ‘piece of paper’ to Scots. It serves only as the chrysalis of the oncoming tsunami of anger about to hit UK politics, both in Scotland and England.The House of Commons relief displayed yesterday, after the falsely secured NO result and the subsequent contempt shown to the Scots voters, reminds me of PM Chamberlains’s premature relief, back in 1938, over another ‘piece of paper’ with Herr HItler’s name on it where Hitler avowed himself dedicated to peace, before invading Poland in 1939. Fasten your seatbelts, Westminster. You’re in a for a bumpy ride.

  70. piggy says:

    Scotland would be a better country without the DAILY RECORD.

    It brings SHAME and promotes IGNORANCE.

    Observing this process of self harm by the DAILY RECORD has been revealing and sometimes hysterically funny.

    People and organisations shall suffer the dame fate as their reputations and self created status no longer exist in the minds of the ENLIGHTENED SCOTTISH PEOPLE.

    They have observed and learned a great deal about people and business in the recent past.

    The social conscience of SCOTLAND is wide AWAKE.

  71. Luigi says:

    Get rid: BBC, Labour Party, Daily Record … the skeletal backbone corrupt unionism in Scotland.

    That, indeed is the evil triumvirate that sustains unionism beyond its sell-by-date in Scotland.

    Take out one leg, and the whole shoddy, incestuous structure will collapse. DR seems the weakest link, followed by SLAB.

  72. Ron Maclean says:

    The referendum took a snapshot of Scottish opinion on 18 September. The behaviour of the Daily Record and those it supported seems to have unduly influenced the result and must be questioned. There’s no ‘settled will of the Scottish people’. Why would we move on? Fool me thrice?

  73. Haggis Hunter says:

    Up till about a year ago, there was always copies of the Record in the work canteen, now I never see a paper bar the occasional Sun, most folks just get on their iPhones and get their info from them!
    Farewell Daily Retard and your sister organisation Labour party in Scotland.
    Gordon is a moron!

  74. andy says:

    Welcome back indeed

  75. ronnie anderson says:

    Where o Where was Gordy at PMQs with his FAUX OUTRAGE the NO WHERE MAN & his cohort in deceit Alistair Darling.

  76. Drunken Hobo says:

    But people weren’t tricked into voting no, and they haven’t been betrayed. Going on about more powers was just a handy excuse to show that they still “loved their country” or some such nonsense. They’d have voted no anyway without any promise of powers, or even if they were to be taken away.

    How many unionists have actually made any sort of fuss about the new powers being a lie? Not a single one. JK Rowling, Rory Bremner and all of the other plastic Scots celebrities haven’t made the slightest peep either. If you could prove to these people that within a month we’d be back at war, have a UKIP MP in Westminster and have absolutely no new powers, they’d still have supported no.

    A lot of the yes campaign’s predictions are coming true yet the unionists remain silent, because this is exactly what they wanted. Their masters are safe and that’s all that matters. Expecting them now to mount any sort of challenge is like expecting worker ants to overthrow their queen. And trying to get through to a unionist is like trying to convince an ant to change its mind.

  77. heedtracker says:

    So why did just this bunch of UKOK shysters panic like they did though? Bliar Macfatboy now says they knew they had won before the 18th, so what on earth provoked THE VOW, is another part of the ref rigged consipiracy theory.

  78. A.N.Surgent says:


    Are they going to criminalise 1.6 m Scots. That would be fun.

  79. Robert Peffers says:

    @Macart says: 15 October, 2014 at 11:11 am:

    “If ever a claim sounded so hollow and meaningless its that one – Scotland’s Champion. I hope they gag on that name.”

    But! But! But!

    The Record are, “Scotland’s Champions”.

    They won the, “Champion Liars”, aware from, “The Scotsman”, after a 6-6 draw, a 7-7 replay and a 25-24 penalty shoot out.

  80. blair paterson says:

    I am just seeing if my email address will stay the same after I post please bear with me

  81. Jack Caramac says:

    Interestingly, the DR is running a poll, linked to the editiorial mentioned above: “Should First Minister Alex Salmond drop referendum rerun threat?”

    Yes: 38%
    No: 62%

    Tick tock indeed.

  82. wee_monsieur says:


    So glad you’re back and refreshed after your break. It’s this sort of incisive stuff that keeps us all going.

    Keep up the good work

  83. schrodingers cat says:

    tx rev

    1. type google cache in google, click on link to google cache.
    2. paste url from daily retard into google cache page, hit enter. (15 day saving period)
    3. past googel cached link to daily retard article in to archive today, hit enter
    4. copy and paste archived today link

    hope this works

    question, can we leave the https:// part in when posting?
    hope so

  84. Christian Schmidt says:

    I am not sure there is much benefit in throwing insults at people who quite clearly misled Scottish voters and who in all likelyhood spend quite a bit of time drafting the vow to ensure that with a bit of sophistry they can pretend that they did not mislead.

    Because whether the vowers and their friends like it or not, the vow is now following its own story. (Just like the referendum campaign, nobody planned what happened…)

    In this context the cent poll dissected yesterday by Prof. Curtice is interesting. Because while some of the questions may look a bit leading, it shows very much what people think if convinced of the premisses. And in the same way that the biased-looking pro-independence poll from last year showed where the yes campaign had to head to, this one now shows the path from here to independence. And in the same way the yes campaign was winning then until the vow was made, I have little doubt that they can we argument and the vote again. Then the yes campaign was stopped by the vow. I cannot see anything that’ll stop it next time round…

  85. galamcennalath says:

    The Daily Records actions were part of a wider orchestrated plan rolled out for ten days before the vote. Mostly woolly nonsense, but put together across all sorts of people and sources, it persuaded just enough people to switch back to No. The most disgusting political campaign tactic ever deployed in living memory.

    I learn new things all the time. A word which is new to me …. Pyrrhic

    A Pyrrhic victory is one where the objective is accomplished but comes at too high of a cost to be considered a win.

    And … The mission of everyone on the Yes side should now be to make sure that is exactly what WM, BT, BBC and MSM realise they have done. All the lies, deceit, nastiness they spewed out in the referendum campaign should be cast up to voters continually.

    Two reasons. Firstly to make sure as many people as possible understand what has just been done to Scotland, and secondly to make sure their tactics are widely understood and therefore useless in the future. We have WM2015 and Holyrood2016 ahead. We want success and we need to neutralise their weapons of choice.

  86. Kevin evans says:

    Great artical – clearly making the case and point of how worthless the vow was and how it was the daily record fully helped lie to the Scottish people – but the problem is and always has been there will be absolutely no media coverage of this in detail aired on and at a prime time tv station slot.

  87. jacksloan2013 says:

    Bugger the Panda asks if we could have a touring theatre group that could take MSM and BBC to task.

    Lest we forget we used to have the 7:84 and Wildcat theatre companies. Productions from The Cheviot, Stag and the Black Black Oil (1973) to Border Warfare (1989) and beyond examined the place of Scotland in the Union. We owe a debt to John McGrath and many others.

  88. schrodingers cat says:

    I think you are right about mundell, i did look at the uk and corresponding holyrood constituency boundaries but they are too different to draw comparisons from 2010 to 2011, sorry about that

    indeed, looking at mundell’s constituency, it looks very contrived to say the least

    but the survation poll showed on sunday that brown’s seat was one of the 10 which labour will hold onto

    here is what the combined kirkaldy and cowdenbeath constituencies voted in holyrood 2011 (very similar area to the 2010 uk constituency boundary)

    2011 HE
    Lab, 24300
    SNP 23400
    Tory 3685
    Libdem 1422
    46% turnout

    i spoke with those at the count in glentothes on the 18th sept, they said that the ballot boxes from these areas were pro yes, it was the 60:40 no vote in NEF which gave the overall result for fife as 45-55% no

    i think the snp should target browns seat

  89. Chitterinlicht says:

    Should use the above to teach kids at school to think for themselves and to always question what is put in front of them.

    Well done.

    Still very grumpy. Never liked Westminster but have zero respect/tolerance for it now.

    Reading some nasty English nationalism online nowadays and sadly hoping this might prove to be the start of the great unwinding.

  90. ````````q1 says:

    Daily Record sales …

    January 2013 – 264,737
    August 2014 – 246,617
    September 2014 – 210,858

    The drop in sales in just the last month was more than double the drop in sales over the previous 19 months.

    Why? Well the bullshit VOW it printed on its front cover, of course.

    Ye, see, that’s the power of people voting with their money instead of a ballet paper. Maybe if we keep up the pressure by encouraging others not to buy this garbage title, we can get the English owned Daily Record’s sales volume under 180k by Xmas?

  91. HandandShrimp says:

    I find the Record’s web page unnavigable. It always asks some damn fool question and there are no articles to read. It plays merry hell with the work computer as does the Mail’s….although I think the latter just tries to load the entire interweb as photo journalism in one go. I think some papers are in competition to see who has the most shit website. The Guardian is a latecomer to the game but their Beta thing is good effort.

  92. Cag-does-thinking says:

    Indeed it is hard for the Record to “move on” and urge their loyal friends to vote for their Scottish Labour champions while the Yes campaign haunt their words ahead of the referendum. You can’t continue a new lie while you are still being dug up about your old ones. I have thought that there might be mileage in trying as much to disrupt network coverage from UK media for the election of UKIP et al getting over the border and into our homes as was pointed out getting a UK picture beamed in to our country works against our democracy. At least the Greens look likely to challenge the cosy stitch ups between the Westminster media and their political masters.

    Any sign of those investigative policemen coming to any conclusion on Davidson McTernan and the rest or is it going to take longer than the Vow to sink…..?

  93. fred blogger says:
    the nasty party is @ it again lord fraud claiming some sick and disabled people are not worth paying more than £2/hr.
    grim 🙁

  94. Devorgilla says:

    Does anybody remember the Zinoviev letter? That was a published lie that lost a vital election in the 1920s.

    The British state has form in this.

  95. One_Scot says:

    How can the Daliy Record be a major player in lying to the Scottish people, helping the unionists cheat Scotland out of a Yes victory, go on to say, it is the “settled will of the Scottish people”.

    That has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.

    Is it any wonder this paper is commonly referred to as the “Daily Retard” by some people.

  96. Macart says:

    @Robert Peffers

    It was a close run thing between the two, but I think you’re right. 🙂

  97. gillie says:

    DR are shitting themselves. Sales figures are on the slide and now being caught openly lying to what remains of its readership. It is time to close this unionist rag down.

  98. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    “Could we not set up a mock trial”

    No need. The Record’s owners are facing trial soon enough.

    Trinity Mirror ‘could face hundreds of claims’ from phone hacking victims

    Trinity Mirror is facing potentially hundreds of claims from victims of phone hacking after the publisher admitted that some of its journalists were involved in the illegal practice.

    After two years of denials and dismissals by the publisher that allegations of phone hacking inside its best-selling titles were “wholly unsubstantiated” and that “no wrong-doing” had occurred in Mirror newsrooms, the company admitted liability in a handful of hacking claims, issued formal apologies, and announced it will be paying compensation to four individuals currently suing them.

    Although the company said that six further claims have been settled, the Metropolitan Police has formally contacted 300 individuals who were listed in the contacts of the Palm Pilot device belonging to the former Mirror and News International journalist, Dan Evans.

    A further 1,300 individuals are still in the process of being contacted by the police. Although Evans worked for both the Murdoch-owned News of the World and the Sunday Mirror, he told police that the “majority” of those he hacked were during his time as a staff Mirror Group (MGN) journalist between 2002 and 2004. He left to join the NOTW.

    Lawyers representing claimants have warned that Trinity Mirror’s announcement does not mean cases had been settled and forecast this is “just the beginning” of an “ever-growing” number of legal actions.

    (24 Sep -Ind.)

    Andy Coulson may well have some company in due course.

  99. Sinky says:

    The Labour Party, Gordon Brown and the Daily Record conducted the biggest fraud on the voting public since the 1924 Zinoviev letter

  100. ebreah says:

    Greetings from Kedah, Malaysia. Staunch supporter of SNP/Scottish Independence since 2003. Unbelievable with what is happening right now. No wonder my law lecturer said a while back Malaysia is little England. We copy everything.

    Scotland must send the most SNP MPs as possible in this GE. This will be the first salvo. I think the Rev should do some research on how to fight nasty ala Malaysia. This FPTP is a b***h but you can beat the system if played rightly. Prime example would be the Kota Damansara election (GE2013) where a disunited opposition lost to the government party although the area was hands down an opposition stronghold.

    For the record the government party in Malaysia is the Tory one, and the opposition is Labour. Yes, we copy everything.

  101. Muscleguy says:


    I have very little faith in the effects of the Smith Commission. Look at Calman and how many of their recommendations that were not accepted by Westminster for the Scotland Act? Smith can recommend the sun, moon and stars but instead we will be hit by a dirty snowball wiping out many of the most vulnerable in our society.

  102. schrodingers cat says:

    there are moves already to create our own independent media, which i and many others here support and recognise the neccessity
    bear in mind that it wont be enough to crowd fund it
    if we launch a new news paper……will your local coop stock it?

    you will need to organise at a very local level to ensure that it is a success
    the formula below will help to make the independent media a success once it is launched

    1. join the snp
    2. go to the next constituency meeting
    3. find out the location of the new snp members in your area who are at the meeting and organise yourselfs into groups and go doorstep the new snp members not at the meeting
    4. you will have access to maps of your area showing the leaflet runs.

    the 1st yes newspaper took us 3 months to deliver, the last(kirsty) leaflet took 5 days, albeit all hands to the pump.

    many here have pointed out about the lack of support and the amount of time they spent leafleting in their area. with the amount of new members the snp have, we should beable to get leaflets devivered almost over night. it is a question of organisation. it would also leave us all free to follow other ways of campaigning

    5. we now have the most comprehensive canvassing results in scotland ever taken. we know where the yes and nos live.
    avoid knocking on nos doors, target the yes supporters, get them to join the snp and become active, or at least try and get them to vote snp in may.and AND ASK THEM TO ORDER THE NEW INDY NEWSPAPER FROM THEIR LOCAL SHOP

    go below the wire, no flags, mass demonstrations. identify the vote and mobilise them to vote snp in may. the leafleting structure you set up will come into play as we near the election

    this will be an excellent start,

  103. davidb says:


    Anybody who remembers a 1920’s letter probably voted posthumously No.

    Sorry. Couldn’t resist. I’ll get my coat…

  104. Schrodingers cat says:

    i should have said in my earlier post about looking at 2011 holyrood election results

    i was promted to do this by many here who were posting the results from the 2010 general elections in their area, and deciding whether to campaign in their area at all, without any reference to the 2011 holyrood elections

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @piggy says: 15 October, 2014 at 12:37 pm:

    “They have observed and learned a great deal about people and business in the recent past.”

    Aye! Mibbies Yes! Mibbies Naw!

    “The social conscience of SCOTLAND is wide AWAKE.”

    Weel! piggy, Auld heids wir jalousin, afore the referendum, that onyane wha wad tac tent o twa auld gyte backbenchers frae a pairty wha wir oot o power at Westminster wir steekit up the back o thir heid.

    I’ll owerset, (translate), that into the English for those who have not wir ain leid, (our own language).

    “Before the referendum old heads were conjecturing that anyone who paid heed to two old stupid backbenchers, from a party not even in power at Westminster, were stitched up the back of their heads”.

    Now, if you look beneath the hairline, you will observe a goodly portion of Scots still have the scars from the operation to remove parts of their brains.

  106. Clootie says:

    I have a fairly long list of those who I will NEVER forgive and The Daily Record and ASDA top mine.

    The Record call to “…move on” is their version of please forgive us and buy the newspaper again.

    I have no intention of moving on when the quality of life for many, many Scots depends on significant change taking place in the political arena.

  107. Stoker says:

    OH, PALEEEEEEEEEEEASE, guys, can we have that Daily Rectum picture at the start of the article replaced with something less offensive on the eyes? You’re also helping, subliminally, to advertise that rag by promoting its ‘red top’.
    C’mon, Rev, its giving me the boak.

  108. Kenny says:

    @ Bugger
    Could we not set up a mock trial, a form of public theatre, scripted by Yesers (lots of good people in the theatrical area) and perform it, video it and see if it will fly, then crowdfund a tour of Scotland with free entry to pensioners, you know the ones who only read the inky fingered press and believe it all. All others would have to pay, unless they had no living wage?

    I like this idea very much! It could become a classic. There are loads of creative people who could do this, I think this is a great idea!! I would also love endless plugging of the BT cereal lady (ushers wearing similar wigs, packs of cereal everywhere like the way they do product promotion in Hollywood)…. But definitely some sort of theatre…

  109. Giving Goose says:

    Re Scottish Questions Westminster

    “a tory MP asked for the criminal act to be used against yes supporters”

    What was the context of this, please? I missed the broadcast.

  110. bob sinclair says:

    I see the delightful Alex Johnstone is up to his usual:

    Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone said: “Apparently the SNP are the most democratic party in Scotland, at least that’s according to Nicola Sturgeon who has just become leader completely unopposed, without so much as a peep from anyone else.

    “We all know how keen the SNP leadership were on keeping the monarchy and that seems to extend to adopting a similar succession model for their new leader.

    “It’s also astonishing that Nicola Sturgeon is planning to celebrate her coronation with her own vanity trip around the country – no doubt hoping the streets will be paved with cheering SNP loyalists.”

    What Alex Johnstone knows about democracy could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp with a 4″ paint brush. This guy is one seriously vile character & a good boot in the stanes wouldn’t go amiss with him.

  111. MargaretMorrison says:

    i think the idea of theatre, is brilliant, a lot of pensioners love going to the theatre, and it would be a great way of getting to this age group who are not on line.

  112. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    With all proposals, commissions, vows and promises from the Yes gang during the Referendum process and now afterwards, I made it a rule never to believe one word uttered by them.

    That way I am never disappointed, except by the idea that they still believe they can get away with their congenital mendacity.

  113. crisiscult says:

    @ Drunken Hobo

    I think it could also be argued that a lot of no voters, rather than having been hard NO’s all along, were persuaded to vote no (ok, they were looking for that persuasion because they were nervous). This seems to be supported by the polling revealed about BT not long before the 18th. Also, in terms of explaining why no voters aren’t saying anything now, I think some are, but the majority of the voters in question (how many? pulling figures from the air to some extent, I’m guessing 10% of the no voters) don’t speak out because they don’t know what’s going on: if they were swayed by the Daily Record (and any other MSM) then why would they suddenly be informing themselves independently through the net?

    My argument, as it’s been since the 18th, is that our campaign needs to fund serious promotion of criticial thinking skills, even if the form of the message is as simple gloves off attack on the UK state and MSM highlighting how we’ve been lied to. I’d like to make some people as angry as I feel pretty much every day about this situation. Scotland must not be allowed to return to sedation.

  114. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    bob sinclair

    sobriquet du jour.


  115. Jim Thomson says:

    Two things …

    @BtP – yup, get your point about the freebie newspapers. I mentioned that a few months ago in one of the threads here on Wings. Pretty sure the free piles of copy in hotels and airport departure gates are counted as “circulation”. Not one for the “Free Mars Bar” enticement. Now, if it was a “Free Bottle of 30/50 y.o. Caribbean Rum” That would be a different matter 😉

    And …

    I seem to recall a wee matter of “Better Together for Science funding” promoted by some famous(ish) baby and bugs doctors

  116. Robert Louis says:

    So, the SNP has booked the SSE Hydro, with seating for 12,000, for a rally on 22nd November. It will be the biggest political gathering indoors in Scotland, in recent times, possibly ever. That will be a helluva gig. Is the Hydro big enough for 12,000 Saltires??

    As regards the Daily record, witttering on about the ‘settled will’. the referendum result was nothing of the kind, a mere 5% was all that the NO vote had. It was not conclusive or resounding. Given the Edinburgh agreement was repeatedly breached, people were bullied, threatened and lied to in order to get them to vote NO, I hardly think it is the settled will of anything.

    Wile it still has the power to do so, the Scottish Government should call a referendum on full powers (Devo max) for the Scottish Parliament, within the UK (i.e not independence), as it will expose the duplicity of the lying British Labour party in Scotland.

    It is important, I think, to remember ALL the arguments (ALL of which were, as we know, untrue) that were used to prevent Scottish independence;
    Losing the pound,
    Losing your UK pension
    losing uk defence forces
    losing uk intelligence services
    losing access to UK transplants
    losing access to the BBC
    kicked out of NATO
    kicked out of the EU

    Then say, OK well if independence (according to London) is so bad, let’s have Devo max instead (everything except defence and foreign affairs) within the UK, then NOT ONE of the arguments used against independence is applicable. Not one.

    With Devo max, we stay in the UK, but have power over almost everything in Scotland. To address the points above, we stay in the UK, we keep the pound, we keep the BBC (although we control it in Scotland)we keep the pensions, we keep UK defence, we keep UK intelligence, no risk to EU membership, we stay in Nato and so on.

    The point I make is this, NOT ONE of the reasons for rejecting independence is applicable for Devo MAX. Indeed, it does need asked, what would Westminsters reasons be to reject Devo Max??

    It’s time for a referendum on Devo MAX.

  117. annie says:

    Giving Goose – He referred to threats and abuse aimed at No supporters ie. calling people ("Tractor" - Ed)s,aggressive canvassing and twitter abuse being referred to police to see if they could be charged. David Mundell actually mentioned a flash mob of 150 people playing music intimidating a few No supporters leafleting. They obviously haven’t heard that it is the Unionists who are being charged.

  118. schrodingers cat says:

    re the existing newspapers and tv

    ive stopped even watching the bbc on iplayer, scotland2014 made me cringe

    but should we ask those, like say, lesley riddoch who do appear on these programs not to?

    we controlled the social media during the campaign, not just facebook and twitter but btl even on the uk newspapers, like the telegraph and the guardian.
    should we stop commenting on articles btl in the daily record? should we ask others not to also? and should we ask pro yes journalist to stop writing articles above the line

    the article from yesterday i think left a few questions unanswered
    im not really sure where we stand with this

  119. Patrician says:


    I still think the vow and other tricks from the last week were because they thought they were going to lose.

    However, I do have an alternative hypothesis. During this campaign there was a theme that not only did No have to win, they had to win big. Anything more than a 60% No vote would really kill independence for a generation. The worst result for everyone was a narrow No win; they haven’t stopped us and we are now probably even more energised. They know that another vote is a strong possibility, sooner rather than later. They have now played out their hand and we will know how to counter the dirty tricks next time.

  120. bob sinclair says:


    Moi? certainement pas (I think) 🙂

  121. schrodingers cat says:


    “sturgeon’s revenge”

    not sure i like that, sounds like we will be suffocated by a wet fish, or a trailer for monty pythons “comfy chair”

    Scotland’s Revenge sounds better

  122. Robert Louis says:

    For those with an interest in the NHS, it would be worth watching today’s edition of the Daily Politics (near the end), in which upper class chump, Tristram Hunt of the British Labour party, asserts they are happy with private involvement in the NHS as it was one of their reforms, but they just don’t want it to go too far.

    British Labour really are just the RED Tories.

  123. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stoker says:15 October, 2014 at 1:43 pm:

    “C’mon, Rev, its giving me the boak”.

    Och! Stoker, that’s just the Rev Stu’s own version of, “Aversion therapy”. It’s meant to scunner you at the Daily Record.

  124. Luigi says:

    Alistair Carmichael says that DevoMax is independence by the backdoor.

    Erm, Alistair, almost half of the country already wants to leave by the front door. Don’t you get it? DevoMax is the only compromise that people just may be persuaded to accept, for now.

  125. schrodingers cat says:

    Quick Poll

    Should there be a second Scottish referendum?

    Yes 50.28%
    No 49.72%

  126. bookie from hell says:

    maddness to call another referendum

  127. muttley79 says:

    Where are people getting this “Sturgeon’s Revenge” thing from? Is this official SNP talk or has someone just made this up?

  128. southgyleprisoner says:

    The Daily Record is nothing more than the mouthpiece for the Vichy administration aka the Labour party of Scotlandshire. It is a busted flush, a descrdited publication and a sanctimonious pile of poop.

    Dont read it, dont visit its website and deny it the oxygen of income.

  129. Lochside says:

    We are witnessing a revolution in Scotland.
    The old order is slowly but inexorably crumbling: The Labour Party; the ‘Record’; the print media; and of course the BBC.

    It is because of ‘change leaders’ such as the Rev and others in the social media who have gathered us together in a modern underground movement, not in shady cafes or smoke filled rooms, but in the ether, the internet.

    This powerful movement in a short period has almost managed to smash the age encrusted chains binding the Scottish people to the decayed corpse of the Union.

    A few stubborn links remain clutching us in a death-like embrace. But by bashing away at the feeble fabric of lies cementing us to this cadaver, by such as the DR, the truth is revealed to us by sites such as ‘Wings’ and it is a certainty that history is on our side and we will achieve our freedom.

    ‘Five to One’: The Doors

    Five to one baby, one in five,
    no-one here gets out alive,
    now you got yours baby, I got mine,
    gonna make it baby if we try,

    the old got old and the young got stronger,
    may take a week and it may take longer,
    they got the guns, but we got the numbers,
    gonna win now we’re taking over,
    come on, yeah, your ballroom days are over.

  130. schrodingers cat says:

    @bookie from hell

    agreed, certainly not until after the may 2015 general election 🙂

  131. muttley79 says:

    @bookie from hell

    Agreed. We need to be very canny indeed. I am amazed that some Yessers want another referendum almost straight away, or in a year or two. A lot of things need to change before we event think about a new independence referendum. We are only going to get one other shot at this, if we are lucky.

  132. Kev says:

    @ desimond

    It says something when a party needs a tour after their annual conference, I fully expect the Hydro to be filled, thats why I grabbed my tickets earlier today, just hope my membership card comes through before then!

  133. YESGUY says:

    I hope the Wreckord crashes and burns along with the empty promises.

    Disgusting unionist rags days are numbered.

    Still there is a single voice in the pages that we may have forgot. Some one willing to speak up for the YES movement.

  134. HandandShrimp says:

    I doubt there will be another referendum immediately. Even if it were proved that something illegal happened with regards postal votes I think there would still be a delay (although there might be criminal proceedings).

    I think Salmond is talking about the elections in 2015 and 2016 when voters will exact revenge on the con artists. Down the line if there was a thumping win for the Yes parties in 2016 and we are in some sort of Kipper hell in Westminster then I could see another referendum by 2020

  135. Lenny Hartley says:

    Why is everybody so fixated on another referendum.

    We don’t need a referendum, 50% +1 of the vote at either a Scottish or UK Election will suffice.

    SNP Policy for over seventy years was precisely that in a UK election. We don’t need a referendum if we spell out exactly what a vote for the SNP means, we have done the
    capable governing bit, we need to get back to the core issue. that the SNP are in it for one reason only, Independence.

    If SNP Ministers don’t want to lose their ministerial cars then they can GTF.

  136. bookie from hell says:

    Goose–repeat on bbc2 Scotland 330pm

    Scottish questions

    tory stated yes campaign were targeting no supporters

    Malclom bruce also said this

    a real nasty go at yes scotland

  137. Luigi says:

    muttley79 says:
    15 October, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    @bookie from hell

    Agreed. We need to be very canny indeed. I am amazed that some Yessers want another referendum almost straight away, or in a year or two. A lot of things need to change before we event think about a new independence referendum. We are only going to get one other shot at this, if we are lucky.

    Absolutely. There is so much still to do in the meantime. There is no point at all, in holding another referendum until the DR is no more and the SLAB MPs have been wiped out. 5-10 years at the earliest IMO. I don’t want YES to scrape 51%, I want to reach 60%, so that there is no doubt at all about the “settled will of the Scotland”.

    We will busy enough in the meantime – there will be countless opportunities to damage the remaining pillars of the union. I think the current mood is not so much about freedom as revenge. Let’s serve it cold.

  138. muttley79 says:

    @Lenny Hartley

    That way to independence is now very unlikely to be successful. We have had referendums on constitutional change in 1979, 1997, and 2014. That has established a clear precedent.

  139. muttley79 says:



  140. Luigi says:

    A consultative referendum on DevoMax, however, is another thing entirely. What better way to split the current NO vote and keep more powers under the spotlight? The unionists would go ape shit.

    C’mon Nichola – put it in your manifesto for 2016.

  141. YESGUY says:

    And there is more doom and gloom for our disabled.

    I have family members who were and are disabled and always believed that the best way to help them was to ensure they are included as an equal in everyday things.

    We always watched out for them and helped when needed. Yet today we see another prominent MP mouthing off to turn the disabled into a workforce for pennies.

    I thought it was a crime to discriminate against the disabled ?

    This is the country the NO voters endorsed.

    Selfish , greedy abusive bastards.

    When we wake up , all of us, and we will. These people should be tried in a court for the damages they have done to the weakest members of our society .

  142. bookie from hell says:

    dow -370


  143. bookie from hell says:

    if uk vote to leave EU

    another possible ref date

  144. muttley79 says:


    It is an possible option, although maybe best not to talk about it too much. Loose lips sink ships after all…

  145. Jim Stir says:

    I wonder how many ill-informed no voters fall into the following. Wake up in morning watch BBC news ,pick up daily paper ,it doesn’t really matter which ,they all just offer slightly different angles on the anti-independence bias depending which political party they “support”. If they do not take a moment to question any the “news” they are being force fed they will never see the light.

    How anyone who can claim to be a Scot yet does not see the barely repressed contempt that many Westminster politicians have for us must be blind. The Scottish Tories will keep their voters as they are the lets call them vested interest voters, with enough wealth etc to be selfishly inclined with the very thought of a fairer society enough to put them in shock. The message must be brought to bear on Labour voters though with such massive anti-devo, anti-independence , domination of the mainstream media I really do not know how to reach them.

  146. Natasha says:

    @Caledonia 12.28pm
    In fact i will buy the sun at least it was more fair and not a lying corrupt paper that the record has become

    Are you really comfortable with funding a newspaper which
    a)sexually exploits and objectifies women (which in my opinion is little more than one step up from child pornography)
    b)is owned by Rupert Murdoch?

    Obviously sport is more important to you than any kind of moral values.

  147. schrodingers cat says:

    Lenny Hartley says:
    Why is everybody so fixated on another referendum.

    We don’t need a referendum, 50% +1 of the vote at either a Scottish or UK Election will suffice.

    SNP Policy for over seventy years was precisely that in a UK election.

    this is true Lenny
    but this close to the referendum, declaring scotland independent in may on the back of 40mps etc, would be a mistake

    i think the calls and references to another referendum are designed to point out that that power still exists for scotland to do this, salmond signed the edinburgh agreement which set a dangerous precedent by which it “appears” holyrood needs the pm of westminster to sign an agreement. the scots need no signature from anyone, just a majority vote

    however, the manifesto for may will be FFA, not indy, even many no supporters will back the snp in this

    what happens after may2015 is anyones guess, it the tories win then an eu referendum will be in the offing

    im not sure we can plan further ahead than 2015, until we know the result of the ge

  148. big jock says:

    There will be no new powers before the next UK general election. UKIP and the Tories will be running the UK 2015. Scotland will return more SNP mp’s than labour ones. What happens after that will be the gradual collapse of the British state.

  149. HandandShrimp says:

    There is a distinct possibility that Brown might be right (I know, I know)and that Cameron/Miliband make such a cock up of trying to stymie Home Rule and EVEL that we simply fall out of the Union because it breaks of its own accord. One of the attractions of pushing for a very clear Home Rule package from the Smith Commission is to see Westminster try to wriggle out of it or fudge it hopelessly.

    I think the EVEL thing is a major problem for Labour because it makes them look anti-English…a tune UKIP likes to play anyway.

  150. Bowanarrow says:

    I am a little confused. On the one hand you are saying that the election was rigged, that thousands of Votes were dumped because they were blank on the revers side, officials were caught on video actually switching piles of votes, of filling in ballot papers and placing them into the count and of course, the two wee wumins stuffing ballot papers into the ballot box. On the other hand I am being told that the Daily Record swayed the NO vote to their side by the “VOW” and that the vote was real and that we should just accept our fate and get on with things. As I said I am a little confused!

    I went onto the SNP’s web site to see if I could get any answers there. Their have been no updates since last month, I went onto the Scottish Parliament page to see if I could get any information there and again nothing. It is almost as if the referendum had never taken place. Should our elected representatives not be up in arms at this debacle, should they not be organizing some sort of protests, I am incredulous that our MSP’s are not saying very much. I know their have been petitions doing the rounds, but they all seem to be diverting the voice of the Scottish people away from asking for a re-vote (supervised by non-british observers) and are asking people to sign the petition to guarantee that the devo max offered in the “VOW” be upheld.


    The Scottish Socialists tried to grab the imagination of the post referendum fervor but I think if the SNP had put out a call to the Scottish people (THEY STILL COULD!) I think the people would have rallied to the cause. We have to find a way to motivate the SNP, after all they are OUR Political Representatives.

  151. Kenny Campbell says:

    Anyone who voted NO on the back of the VOW was an idiot. On a number of fronts.

    1. Westminster delivery of previous promises.
    2. No detail and no one would discuss what it meant at the time.
    3. Unionists were panicking and so would say anything.

    Despite all the tosh thrown about, there can only be a handful of folk out there who were swayed by this pish. If they were they were always real NO voters.

    No one who was really educated on the facts voted NO.

  152. Morag says:

    I just looked up the Zinoviev letter. There’s an interesting comment on that in Wikipedia.

    A.J.P. Taylor argues that the most important impact was on the psychology of Labourites, who for years blamed their defeat on foul play, thereby misunderstanding the political forces at work and postponing needed reforms in the Labour Party.

    I think we need to be on our guard against that happening in the present context. I do blame the No vote on foul play, on Project Fear, shock and awe and The Vow, all facilitated by the BBC and the rest of the media.

    However, other possibilities do need to be considered.

  153. big jock says:

    Kenny I agree but how many times do the no voting Scots, have to get conned before they wake up! We know what Einstein said:” Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”. I recommend no voters to read The Ragged Trousered Philanthrapist to open their eyes. That book could have been written for Scotland in 2014!

  154. Kenny Campbell says:

    The Alistair Gray described effect of the dilution of Scottish culture I believe also has a big effect. One only has to see how many community spokesmen and women who you see on TV are not locals to understand that.

    If you have 10%+ of your population from a group who’s country you are splitting from then a fair number of them will lean in the main to NO.

    We of course also have our own built in issues on top around religion, monarchy and inbred Unionisim.

  155. jackie g says:

    I have just heard that Lord Freud has apologised for his remarks regarding disabled people(sorry scum who are not worth a decent wage) he was told to say sorry by the PM.

    Wonder if he will say sorry to the immigrants who probably work for him cleaning his lordships house for pennies? i doubt it there is more chance of Ms lamont being FM before that happens..W***er

  156. A.N.Surgent says:

    EVEL also makes slab irrelevant in london, no top jobs, no ermine to chase no troughing. Ironically if slab had got behind yes they would have been a lot stronger in Scotland and they might have been running Scotland.

    As it looks british labour are going to be out of government for a long time with ukip and tory running the show down south.

  157. Kenny Campbell says:

    You watch. In GE we’ll vote Labour. I’d bet my house on it. We’re a generation or 2 away from losing the old ways. We’re fighting a very old enemy and its not England. Its ourselves and our brain washed ancestors.

  158. liz g says:

    RE Newspaper delivery
    There’s no need to persuade the “CO-OP” or any other shop to take a supply of papers to sell,at least not right away.

    It’s not difficult to get a delivery service going if it’s done the same way as the Evening Time’s.

    My kid’s did it for year’s as a bit of extra income while they
    Were still at school.

    In fact it is about they only part time work available to the under 18s any more.
    As the tobacco law’s now keep most of them out of the shop’s.

    All you really need is someone local who will take and bundle the paper’s from the supplier and be at home when the kid’s need to pick up their bundles.

    The kid’s develop their own customer’s and sell on the round when they themselves move on.
    They in fact only worked for tips (I know) but even so made quite a wee bit.

    Guess who their best customer’s were,who tipped the most and who were loyal to the kid’s for trying to earn a wee bit o pocket money.

    Yes got it in one our pensioners.

  159. Haggis Hunter says:

    There is no point labeling the no voters as idiots, it will not get us anymore support and folk dont like smugness. We need to point out that the Labour party & Gordon Brown are liers, and have ripped the pish out of the No voter

  160. A.N.Surgent says:

    Just thinking if EVEL is passed you might have slab putting on their own Imperial train to london to ask english voters to vote for them.

  161. Kenny Campbell says:

    I personally don’t give a shit what NO voters think of my thought process. We’ll need a lot more crap coming down on us to get the next 10% to vote YES. It’ll be hard enough to hold onto the 45%

    It will need to be truely horrendous in Scotland before that happens. I’m not setting the agenda and I’m not interested in tickling them into voting YES.

    Let them get there with personal experience.

  162. muttley79 says:


    Do you mean the things that the Yes campaign got wrong?

  163. Morag says:

    Muttley, probably that too, though I was thinking in particular of the misunderstanding of some of the No demographic and how widespread the unengaged No voters were.

  164. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Luigi says:
    15 October, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    A” consultative referendum on DevoMax, however, is another thing entirely. What better way to split the current NO vote and keep more powers under the spotlight? ”

    Admirable as that tactic is, it is not realistic.


    The only people who can change the Act or Treaties of Union are the two signatories, England `(representing Wales and N Ireland) and Scotland.

    Even if we had a 99% turnout and a 99% yes vote for Devo Max, Westminster could turn it down or vote it down.

    The only logical route for Scotland and the only legal one, whatever Westminster says or does, is to rescind the Treaty of Union, then declare independence and sail off into the sunset or renegotiate a different Sovereign Association with the England we left behind.

    We can take our independence but not devo anything without that being granted by Westminster.

    If you watched the performance in the Debating Chamber of the House of Commons yesterday you should be able to work out the probability of that happening; in my opinion it would be well on the negative side of SFA.

    Then the House of Lards could destroy it.

    The only way is independence by way of canceling the Act of Union, by way of some mandate given to the SNP and other political parties by the electorate, either as a majority of votes in the two Parliaments or even better the majority of seats and votes in the two Parliaments. The second would be unassailable internationally whilst and incompletion would invite wriggles and challenges from the southern nasties.

  165. Rigmac7 says:

    Hanging head in shame here, looked at BBC website. However, did find this little gem from Alistair Carmichael, that champion of truth and honesty for ordinary Scot’s folks;

    15:21: Carmichael urges Strugeon to ‘accept’ vote

    Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael has said he wishes Nicola Sturgeon “very well”.

    Speaking to the BBC, the Lib Dem MP added: “I think the first thing she could do to make her job easier would be do come out and say categorically that having accepted the decision of the people of Scotland that she will not now be looking for another referendum.

    “She keeps trying to duck that issue and unless or until she answers it openly and honestly then there is going to be an element of uncertainty hanging over Scotland’s economy and that would be bad for Scotland’s business and Scotland’s jobs.”

  166. Robert Peffers says:

    @muttley79 says: 15 October, 2014 at 2:29 pm:

    “A lot of things need to change before we event think about a new independence referendum. We are only going to get one other shot at this, if we are lucky.

    I don’t think you could have noticed but, “A lot of things need to change”, indicates you may not be fully aware that, “a lot of things have already changed”, and the speed of change has increased to the extent they are now a very rapid acceleration in the speed of change. I have always been sensitive to the mood on the streets and there is certainly a wind of change that is growing towards a gale force.

    Labour in Scotland seem close to melt-down. The old order of MSM is crumbling before our very eyes. Certain, Labour Party Big Beasts have suddenly morphed into wee tuckie, shilpit craiturs in big blaw-up fancy dress costumes that seem to have been punctured and become deflated.

    Add to that the strange reaction at the Westminster de facto parliament of England with their insistence upon, “Only English votes for English only laws”. This only serves to draw the attention of the Scots, Welsh & N.Irish that Westminster is the de facto parliament of England. Seems Westminster now feels strong enough to ignore the truth. Now everyone can see this as the English bid to be the master race with sovereignty over everyone else. Now we can all see why the winds of change are becoming a gale.

    We really highlight these facts and push them for all we are worth. It is now plain for all to see that England is bidding to become the master race with not just the Scots but the Wersh and N. Irish too as their inferior vassals. With Westminster as the De Facto Parliament of England, and Westminster also nominally the Parliament of the United Kingdom, then Westminster, (with only those 533 Englanders able to vote on the matter), we all become slaves to the country of England Parliament of Westminster.

  167. big jock says:

    How else would you describe someone who surrenders their country to another!

    They are either idiots,misguided,foolish,ignorant or sichophantic. Sounds harsh, but what they did was sell us out and it’s really that simple. They are certainly not patriotic to Scotland. 90 minute Jocks maybe!

  168. muttley79 says:


    Even if we had a 99% turnout and a 99% yes vote for Devo Max, Westminster could turn it down or vote it down.

    I think that would be precisely the point though of holding a Devo max referendum. If it is not accepted by Westminster, then clearly there is no option between the status quo and independence. That will have been proved to voters in Scotland beyond any doubt. Do you think Salmond offered a second question on the independence referendum because he wanted it to happen (or thought it had any chance whatsoever of occurring, and then being delivered), or because he knew it would be rejected in an kneejerk manner by unionists?

  169. Now's the Hour says:

    >>What Alex Johnstone knows about democracy could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp with a 4? paint brush. This guy is one seriously vile character & a good boot in the stanes wouldn’t go amiss with him.<<

    His arse must be helluva jealous of his mouth, given the amount of sh*te coming out of it.

  170. muttley79 says:

    @Robert Peffers

    No, loads of things still need to change before we even think about going for independence again. It is simply not enough for Labour to seem to be in meltdown. They have to be weakened significantly at all levels, Westminster, national, locally. It is not enough to think the MSM are finished. They are nowhere near weak enough yet to be confident enough of a Yes vote. They were still strong enough to beat us last month. We will only get one other shot at independence if we are lucky. You do not get three chances at independence.

  171. SquareHaggis says:

    Wait a minute though, wasn’t there a similar front page “VOW” (with signatures) splashed across the front page a few months prior to this one?

    Sure I read about it on here somewhere…

  172. Andy-B says:

    Lets do to the Record what Liverpool has done to the Sun, and never ever buy it,again. I hope Murray Foote is shitting himself.

  173. schrodingers cat says:

    muttley79 says:

    Where are people getting this “Sturgeon’s Revenge” thing from? Is this official SNP talk or has someone just made this up?

    i think it is a bit of a wind up muttley 🙂
    i know i was making a joke

  174. ticktock says:

    Look for discarded copy of the Daily Retard, look within for the biggest budget advertisers, contact them by phone or email and tell them that you’re looking to buy their product/service but won’t be buying it from them because they’re advertising in the DR.

  175. Ellie Mack says:

    Relax guys, this is entirely predictable, in fact it’s very welcome. The mainstream media is now demanding what THEY need, not what Scotland need’s, and all the while they are trying to divert attention from the glorious mess going on in Westminster. They need us to give up on the idea of independence, they need us to accept whatever westminster chooses to give is, in short, they need us to feel defeated, the one thing that hasn’t happened.

    Which goes a long way to explaining the vitriol the media and unionist stooges has let loose on anyone who voted Yes over the past few days, so let them carry on to their little hearts content I say, we shouldn’t react or be diverted from our goals. The unionists still believe this is merely a political campaign that will die a natural death, they have failed to realise that this is no campaign, it’s a movement.

    The most important thing for us to do is stay focused and committed to furthering our goals, which for now should be the general election – ensure as many nationalists are elected as possible, leave the Westminster sideshow to itself, they no longer matter and the more we react to them the more danger there is of being blown off target.

    The Daily Record is fast consigning itself to the newspaper dustbin of history, exactly where it belongs.

  176. annie says:

    Isn’t it more likely that a lot of No voters simply didn’t want change and the Vow gave them something to justify their No vote.

  177. One_Scot says:

    Why would anyone accept a fraudulent vote.

  178. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Muttley

    As I said, Devo Whatever is not ours to take and it would be impossible to be given. Brown was talking brown stuff as per usual. It is nor deliverable by Westminster, not in the real World.

    DEvo, at this stage is a red herring. I could be offered and probably not delivered so, maybe that is your thinking but it is now just a delaying tactic.

    The Full Monty

  179. Kenny says:

    @ A.N.Surgent says:
    15 October, 2014 at 3:14 pm
    EVEL also makes slab irrelevant in london, no top jobs, no ermine to chase no troughing. Ironically if slab had got behind yes they would have been a lot stronger in Scotland and they might have been running Scotland.

    Exactly. You would have thought slab (by the way, slab is “weak” in Russian and other Slavonic languages, although I prefer to call them slob) would have wanted indy, because they would be in a prime position to form most of the governments. But they did not…. which just goes to show that slab is a mere facade and they are just useful idiots for elab. Be sure to explain this point by point to “ma family hae aye voted lab” voters.

    Destroy slab forever and the SNP are in a VERY strong condition, especially if the voters are mopped up by our allies from the RIC, SSP…. These voters are not going to vote Tory! Possibly UKIP, of course, but I don’t think so. Need to think about the possibility of really pushing RIC and other left-wingers, because there are always the “cannae stand the SNP/Alecsammin/Nicola” blockheads among them…

  180. David Mackintosh says:

    Lots and lots of opinions here

    BUT the BIG ISSUE is that WE were and still are talking to ourselves.

    This site is great for the soft don’t knows who want edumacated……

    BUT HOW do we make an impact on the HARD NO’s this is the job at hand.

    All the hard no’s I know don’t or did not want to discuss this, they are happy and selfish living in their little prosperous bubble.

    How do we get these people ‘turned’ to make this country a better place for all, some challenge.

    Do we really have to wait until they all die off?

    If that really is the case many of us here today wont see an independent Scotland.

    I think that getting rid of every Red Tory MP is a big ask, hopefully we can get rid of some of the more visible ones at the next GE but getting rid of Red Tory MSP’s is going to be a much bigger ask with PR being how we populate the Scottish Parliament

    Interesting Times Indeed.

    One can only hope that Englandshire votes en mass to dump subsidy junkie Scotland, That might happen sooner than we think. Here’s hoping.

  181. gordoz says:


    This is why we ‘bad yins’ should all have voted No.
    Yes voters are a selfish lot apparently.

    Who says so – Wee Dougie ‘the dug’ Alexander ; fools !

    (type of dug = poodle)

  182. gillie says:

    DM, “HOW do we make an impact on the HARD NO’s this is the job at hand.”

    We don’t because within 5 years most of these HARD NO’s will be gone. They will take their unionism to their graves.

  183. Proud Cybernat says:

    The Daily Record can go and fuck itself. The day that lying, deceitful rag is torpedoed and sunk will not be a day too soon. Scotland’s Champion Betrayer. I sincerely hope every YES voter in Scotland and any No voters who now feel betrayed by this rag’s deceit will boycott it. It is no more than it deserves.

  184. VikingsDottir says:

    I’ve been surprised by the number of folk I’ve heard on the radio saying that the Referendum result is final and that’s the end of it. I think that proves, to me anyway, that a lot of Scots, as well as being inveterate Stockholm Syndrome sufferers, haven’t got a clue that a Democracy is an evolving thing, and that what is acceptable now, may not be acceptable in the future. Think of the way being Gay used to be a crime, for example. No-one with any sense today would find that acceptable. If our decisions are set in stone, as unchanging forms of being governed, we could justifiably call that a Dictatorship. Some of these guys never learned anything in their lives. They should get out more. Out of Scotland would be a learning experience for all of them.
    Massie’s a decent bloke, and why does the Daily Record think that it represents the Scottish people? How arrogant can you get?

  185. Robert Louis says:

    I have to say, this new roadshow idea from the SNP, is very good. Many new people have decided to join the SNP, and the meetings will be a great way to cement the way forward following the conference.

    I’m especially looking forward to the one in Glasgow at the SSE Hydro, with 12,000 people.

    This really could be awesome, and a strong message to the unionists, that we have NOT gone away, and NOTHING is settled. Mark it in your calendar, 22nd Nov. get your tickets early – there are now over 88,000 members.

    Meanwhile, let’s keep the unionists guessing what we might do next. Given the number of times they have demanded that Nicola should state she won’t have another referendum, it is clear, they are still feart of us. More importantly, I think they are also feart of Nicola. 🙂

  186. David Mackintosh says:

    gillie says:
    15 October, 2014 at 4:39 pm

    DM, “HOW do we make an impact on the HARD NO’s this is the job at hand.”

    We don’t because within 5 years most of these HARD NO’s will be gone. They will take their unionism to their graves.


    I know of many hard no’s in their 30’s and 40’s

    I turned a mother who was a real hard no and used the WBB to make the break through. She came back for 20 more which she got for her work colleagues and family.

    BUT the other eleven members of her family daughters and in-laws all professional people VOTED NO

    So your proposition that in five years time all the hard no’s will be gone does not hold water.

  187. A.N.Surgent says:


    Yip it reinforces the fact that they are not working in the best interests of the Scottish labour force(never mind Scotland), but are working only in the best interests of their london masters, who don`t do much for the english workforce either.

    As many SNP seats as we can in 2015 and as many indy seats in 2016, hopefully will have the slab careerists heading south in droves.

  188. Kenny says:

    A couple of questions and maybe some groups to focus on… It was generally said that women were less likely than men to vote for indy…. did that hold true? Also, are there any forgotten, overlooked groups of voters? A while back someone mentioned the Jewish population and I read an interesting piece by Frank Angell… Similarly, I seemed to hear that, for some reason, Poles were not taken by indy, any idea why (possible concerns over Scotland not being in the EU so no residence rights?). I think it would be a good idea to focus on such groups, Poles would be a good group to get onside (and the historical links with Poland are very close — Bonnie Prince Charlie, Chopin, WWII…). Are there any sizeable ethnic groups who have been overlooked? I believe that our wonderful Asian community were largely clued-up and on our side…

  189. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T

    “John Barrowman picks up MBE for services to entertainment and charity”

    According the Suns Twitter line. Nothing to do with his pitiful attempts to save the union? No, of course not.

  190. Dr Jim says:

    It wiznae us, it wiz Big Gordy, he telt us tae say it, honest mister, he says it wiz his mate Davy doon it “Osbornes” the bookies, an he goat it affy wee Cleggie, it wiz wan o thame anyhow, “ah hink”
    Djae hink thisl mean they wont dae it noo

  191. biggpolmont says:

    After all the years of lying to us & “THAT VOW!” They deserve to be boycotted and when the retard finally goes bust we should contact all other papers that are likely to take on any of the redundant staff and tell them they will be boycotted next.

  192. Chic McGregor says:

    Good stuff. Think you got all the key points.

    There is, I suspect, a major typo in the sentence “Mr Salmond makes the whole report about Mr Salmond’s trustworthiness.” Was it meant to start “Mr Robinson”?

    Also, although I did not read links to previous correspondence, I think Nick Robinson’s subsequent denial that Alex Salmond answered his question should be emphasised along with the attendee’s video which caught Nick Robinson nodding in agreement when at the end of his (repeated)answer Alex Salmond asked him if his answer was a reasonably comprehensive.

    At 8min 03 but worth watching the full answer.

  193. muttley79 says:


    As I said, Devo Whatever is not ours to take and it would be impossible to be given. Brown was talking brown stuff as per usual. It is nor deliverable by Westminster, not in the real World.

    DEvo, at this stage is a red herring. I could be offered and probably not delivered so, maybe that is your thinking but it is now just a delaying tactic.

    The Full Monty.

    We all want independence on here, excluding the trolls but they are of no consequence. You are missing my point in regards to Devo max or Whatever (I think). You say it is not ours to give. That is kind of the point. We need to prepare the ground for another referendum. You do that by showing all the voters in Scotland that there is no chance of getting a better deal, or even a significant one. Devo Whatever has to be shown to be non deliverable, it has to be seen to be rejected by Westminster. The voters here, particularly the No ones, need to see the doors being slammed shut on it. By exhausting all the possibilities of change it is the Yes side who are, and will be perceived to have been, the one who acted as responsibility and reasonably as possible. We can then go back and say to the population at large, you have saw for yourself that we tried our best but the British state was completely intransigent, and therefore, we have no option but to seek support for independence again.

    This is not a delaying tactic, we have no choice for the foreseeable future.

  194. Robert Peffers says:

    @muttley79 says: 15 October, 2014 at 3:48 pm:

    “No, loads of things still need to change before we even think about going for independence again. It is simply not enough for Labour to seem to be in meltdown.

    Well actually that is not the case. If, for example, we flushed out the Tories from all Scottish Westminster seats and the English returned a Tory Government then we can correctly claim Westminster has no mandate whatsoever to rule Scotland. As I already pointed out on this topic, Westminster is the De Facto Parliament od England, it legislates for England and tacks on bits to bills to accommodate Scottish law.

    It finances itself as The United Kingdom directly with United Kingdom funds. It bases Scotland’s block grant upon English spending but often cheats by financing English infrastructure from sources that carry no Barnett Consequentials. In Short Westminster is the Parliament of England dictating to everyone else and assuming sovereignty over the rest of the UK.

    Tell it like that to the people of Scotland and they just may get angry enough to demand independence. Just by chance I heard Nicola on Radio Scotland say that it won’t be her who goes for another referendum because that is up to the wishes of the Scottish People.

  195. Arabs for Independence says:

    Nicola Sturgeon @ Dundee 7 November. Great stuff

  196. Rev. William Steele says:

    I think that the corruption in which the NO campaign engaged before the vote, unacceptable practises during the count, and the breaking of the vow by Cameron, gives us the moral and legal right to hold another vote without the permission of the UK government. The vote should be held as soon as possible without any campaigning by anyone. If Westminster does not accept the result, then we will be morally and legally justified in,making a Unilateral Declaration of Independence. The Treaty and Act of Union has already been broken. The Scottish Parliament should acknowledge that it has been broken by Westminster, is no longer effective, and therefore is reversed.

  197. velofello says:

    We must continue to talk directly to the public through Saturday stalls, meetings etc. Leading up to the Referendum we put forward our case with integrity. Now we can gently take a “we did predict” stance with the public.

    Yesterday’s Westminster farce needs to be shown and explained far and wide.

  198. EdinScot says:

    Andy-B says – Lets do to the Record what Liverpool has done to the Sun, and never ever buy it,again. I hope Murray Foote is shitting himself.

    YES. Let us spit in their eye like they spat in the people of Scotlands eye at the eleventh hour to side with the tories. Boycotts work so lets finish them off and rid their poisonous influence from our country.

  199. Jim Thomson says:

    Odd that we’re not allowed to comment on this story from the BBC:

  200. George says:

    Only a few words,lying,cheating,thieving b””””””s and last of al The Treaty and Act of Union to which the Engerland Government broke.That’s it guys.

  201. Proud Cybernat says:

    We all know the success of the Wee Blue Book before the referendum. We need to crowd-fund another before GE 2015.


    And show people in Scotland how they were conned by Unionist lies. Stick the boot right into them while the memory is still relatively fresh in peoples’ minds.

  202. Democracy Reborn says:

    Re. Carmichael’s comments on Sturgeon:-

    The AV referendum in 2011 was a decisive No, by 68:32. Will Carmichael (and the Lib Dems generally)stop campigning for proportional representation? Will they accept that first past the post represents the “settled will” of the UK electorate?

  203. EphemeralDeception says:

    How about: When the SNP win the next Scottish election, outright or not….

    Place a vote to get a Labour MSP as Health Minister, give them the pro rata budget which they say is more than enough and let them get on with it? Would make a vote of no confidence with the Health minister a likely prospect.

  204. SquareHaggis says:

    Noticed Redwood earlier trying to change the narrative on his baby (EVEL)

    Attempted to re-name it English Votes for English Issues (EVEI), but Andrew Neil was having none of it andput him right back on track.

    Sneaky Tory.

  205. T222Deracha says:

    ATOS are still operating in Scotland and foodbanks are still in Scotland. But unemployment is down in Scotland. Or is it only a reduction in the number of people getting JSA, who still have no job and are refused benefit?. Better Together, eh?

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    Reposting this table below, every age group near enough doubled in support for Indy over the 2 years:

    From the ScotCen (Curtice) for 2012, compared to Ashcroft immediately after the Ref, support for Indy by age group:

    Age . . 2012 2014
    18-24 – 31% 51% (inc 16-17 in Ashcroft)
    25-34 – 27% 59%
    35-44 – 27% 53%
    45-54 – 25% 52%
    55-64 – 20% 43%
    65+ . – 14% 27%

    Rather than concentrating on one category, increase overall support, and there we go. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make a targetted effort on the 65+ category, the lowest YES by far, just that there is a sensible amount of concentration to do, but it’s overall we need to keep getting the message across – gently and with no blame about their having voted NO the last time. “Guilt” will only harden their entrenched attitudes.

    A bit similar perhaps to the over-concentration on the female vote during the campaign, looking at these voters as women rather than people, and trying to work out why women should be different to men. Vive la difference!

  207. Brian Fleming says:

    To borrow from the late, great Oliver Brown: Scotland will not be free until the last Labour politician / BBC journalist (take your pick) is strangled with the last copy of the Daily Record.

  208. Grouse Beater says:

    Rev William Steele: I think that the corruption in which the NO campaign engaged before the vote, unacceptable practises during the count, and the breaking of the vow by Cameron, gives us the moral and legal right to hold another vote without the permission of the UK government.

    I agree in toto. The underhand and fraudulant methods employed by the opposition demand another vote at the requisite moment, in addition to radical reforms in the way plebiscites are conducted so that the MSM, politicians and individuals cannot undermine the process.

  209. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m totally with muttley79 on this. My first reaction was same as some others – it’s Indy or nothing. Smith changes that, if it’s a whitewash or not delivered then indeed we the 45 can hold our hands up and say that we backed off Indy to support the 55, now please support us in the next Indy Ref because this was the best by far chance of getting signficant powers devolved – it failed and will never happen again. The only way now that Scotland will ever get given more powers is to take them for ourselves, with Independence.

    The more people believe there will be no powers from Smith, the more the reason to support it!

  210. EphemeralDeception says:

    @Kenny, the ashcroft and other polls after the ref. showed that male and female voters voted the same way overall. What was the main differentiators was age group and affluence.

    @yesindyref2, indeed even though the older age groups were more reticent to change what is the best way to increase the vote. I would say work on all fronts but get families to talk to their parents and grandparents. The older generation voted against the younger generation based on fear for some, based on self interest on others, abased on nostalgia after WW2 etc. My Grandmother was very much ‘we are better to stick together’.

    So for me we have to convince more people overall and have to get the YES generation to persuade the older citizens who are quite understandably reluctant for change, for various reasons. EG. Lets get more silver surfers online and getting the facts! How to do that? As I manage my parents home computer setup and OS issues for them… I also set their homepage to wings 😉

  211. @ Kenny
    `Finally, according to YouGov only 26% of those who were born in England, Wales or Northern Ireland voted Yes.`
    That is from prof Curtise.
    There are over 400,000 English living in Scotland thats nearly 300,000 No votes enough to swing Scotlands Independence vote from Yes to No.
    10% of the Vote are English.

  212. Brian Fleming says:


    Good points. Did you know there was massive Scottish settlement in Poland in the later Middle Ages and after, as there was throughout the countries with a coast on the Baltic. That means there are loads of Poles with Scots ancestry today. A lot of towns in northern Poland have a name derived from a Scottish settler. I’m sure there must be latent sympathy that can be tapped. Could it be the Poles voted NO because of their experience under Communism and the left-wing nature of much of the YES campaign. That could point to a need to educate them on the differences. From my knowledge of esotnia, which is closer to where i live in finland, most people seem to have swallowed neolieral capitalism whole simply because the Communists (.e. Russian occupiers) were against capitalism.

  213. Brian Fleming says:

    esotnia???? Why can’t i edit after posting? of course, Estonia.

  214. Doug McG says:

    Robert Peffers , earlier today

    “Add to that the strange reaction at the Westminster de facto parliament of England with their insistence upon, “Only English votes for English only laws”. This only serves to draw the attention of the Scots, Welsh & N.Irish that Westminster is the de facto parliament of England. Seems Westminster now feels strong enough to ignore the truth. Now everyone can see this as the English bid to be the master race with sovereignty over everyone else. Now we can all see why the winds of change are becoming a gale.

    We really highlight these facts and push them for all we are worth. It is now plain for all to see that England is bidding to become the master race with not just the Scots but the Welsh and N. Irish too as their inferior vassals.”

    You really nailed it there Robert, they have lost their sang froid , insouciance ,their unspoken superiority complex and want to be little Englanders in charge of everything . No doubt about it, this union is over ! Let’s give them plenty of rope.

  215. Forbes says:

    Please sign up to the Rev’s petition as we only need 2,000 more
    names to deliver this message t

  216. Kirsty says:

    Hola, guys. I’ve been internet less since just after the ref. Hope everyone’s been keeping well.

    Just wanted to say that the idea of writing to the companies who advertise in the Record and others is fantastic. It’s a tactic that has worked very well in the US.

    Ellie Mack,

    I agree with you that we should let WM make their mistakes and concentrate on the GE. But I do also think that we should help to keep the pressure on them by writing to our unionist MPs about why their parties haven’t kept their promises and by putting in submissions to the Smith Commission. If we let them know that we will not accept less than the promised Home Rule, which they have no intentions of delivering, then it’ll make life very difficult for them, which is always a good thing and will help us show people how treacherous the unionists have been and that Home Rule is never going to happen.


    I get the feeling UKIP are going to take a lot of Labour votes. They’ve got a very populist manifesto, I think a lot of Labour as well as Tory voters will be tempted to vote for them. I think that’s good news for us as I can’t see Indy supporters going for them.

  217. Kenny says:

    Kirsty, I think the same. I have always said that such a disgusting party as UKIP should not besmirch our bonnie land. But then we do have the SLAB, after all! So if they are going to exist, let them be (useful) idiots for us, i.e. to split the unionist vote. It might just let an SNP candidate slip in somewhere or another… Anything that causes the unionist vote to split is, in my opinion, a good thing.

  218. Robert Peffers says:

    @David Mackintosh says: 15 October, 2014 at 4:33 pm:

    “BUT the BIG ISSUE is that WE were and still are talking to ourselves.

    You speak for yourself, David, but I have always spoken to anyone that I could interest in Scottish Independence. I started in 1946 and I was still doing so today with a family group as I walked my wee dog in Lochore Meadows Country Park.

    All it took was the wee dog to attract their wee girl and the wee girl, (a real bright spark), to ask why I had YES badges all over my wooly hat. Next thing I knew I was being asked lots of very sensible questions. All answered truthfully and honestly. That, in itself, is something extraordinary. Ordinary Scottish people now with a thirst to find out the truth and not afraid to ask.

  219. Kenny says:

    Scot Finlayson – Good point on the other Brits, especially the English. That will be a hard nut to crack. I have always believed that an indy Scotland might encourage England to follow our example. If we were an economic success (and no reason why we shouldn’t be), regions in the north of England might themselves want to be with us (“better together”!) rather than with the corrupt casino economy of rUK. And hey presto we would, by definition, have a new union…. Now, if we just has a sister party in England working along the same lines (left of centre, anti-nuclear missiles, anti-bedroom tax), it make it easier to associate ourselves in their minds with England. There is, of course, such a party (Greens), but their political situation is so f$%ked, they are going nowhere…

    I know many Poles are seething over (traditional enemy) Russian involvement in Ukraine, so I would imagine they see a strong unified UK as a good guarantee against Putin. Many East Europeans do, indeed, follow the whole US line, warts and all. But maybe our Poles, because they are migrants carving out their own new lives, are better aware of the other side of life and a little more cynical about governments…. We maybe need to get Lech Walesa to speak at the next “Hope over Fear” rally!

  220. Robert Peffers says:

    @gillie says: 15 October, 2014 at 4:39 pm:

    “We don’t because within 5 years most of these HARD NO’s will be gone. They will take their unionism to their graves.

    No bloody wonder we cannot make progress in some areas when some people imagine all the hard NOs are old folks. I’m an indepoendence campaigner and have quietly been campaigning since 1946 when I was a schoolboy.

    The hardest NOs I’ve come across in this recent campaign in this area were 20 somethings to 40 somethings who worked at Rosyth Dockyard. Middle aged Labour Party activists and relatives, (of all ages), of Labour Party Councillors and MSPs.

  221. Robert Peffers says:

    @velofello says: 15 October, 2014 at 5:46 pm:

    “Yesterday’s Westminster farce needs to be shown and explained far and wide.”

    Go on then, velofello, let’s see you take a crack at explaining it to us right now? I’ve been attempting to explain it since devolved parliaments were first introduced and it never seems to make too much of an impression. Explain to us the implications of yesterday’s debate. Just what was wrong about it?

  222. Rock says:

    “And you’d need to have the IQ of a sparrow with Alzheimer’s Disease to legitimately reach that conclusion from the few pitiful paragraphs of empty waffle in “The Vow”, so it can only have been the Daily Record’s own view.”

    So which of these is true:

    The people who changed their mind to vote No because of the ‘vow’ “have the IQ of a sparrow with Alzheimer’s Disease”.


    They were going to vote No anyway and are now using the ‘vow’ as a defence for voting No?

  223. Morag says:

    Forbes, although I’m all for everyone signing that petition, all that will happen when it gets to 15,000 (the current apparent target) is that the target will flip to 20,000.

    It’s the way the petition site works. It’s messing with your head.

  224. Fred says:

    Anent Alex Johnstone getting a “Boot in the stanes”, I very much doubt if he has ony tae boot! 🙂

  225. Chris says:

    Does any one think we will get any more powers? If we do I don`t they would let us have broadcasting, never matter how much I think we should have it, as that is their mouthpiece as we learned from the campaign.

  226. Robert Peffers says:

    @Morag says: 15 October, 2014 at 9:33 pm:

    “It’s the way the petition site works. It’s messing with your head.”

    I agree with you, Morag. There is only one petition worth bothering with. The official government one that has to be taken notice of by Westminster. Even then they can just look at it and file it in the regulation waste-paper bin as issued by Her Majesty’s Stationary Office., (that’s the same waste-bin our tax contributions paid for). The only sure result of that is it is recorded in Hansard for posterity.

  227. @ Kenny
    I think as part of `project fear` Polish people were told they would have to leave in the event of Scottish Independence.

    `Edinburgh-based Marcin Soltysiak, director of the Polish Community in Scotland, claims that Poles are being doorstepped by pro-Unionists and told they will have to leave the country if the ‘Yes’ campaign wins, as Scotland would have to renegotiate its EU membership if it becomes independent. `

  228. Robert Peffers says:

    The problem today remains as it has since the day devolved parliaments first began. On that day the the members elected as members of the United Kingdom Parliament automatically became unelected members of the Parliament of the country of England. Does anyone seriously believe that they do not prioritise the own voters best interests over those voters in other devolved countries?

    If you really are naive enough to believe so then consider why those UK, unelected as such, members of the parliament of England are so passionate about banning Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish members from voting on what they judge to be England only matters.

    Until the unelected parliament of England is removed from Westminster and the parliament of England made a devolved parliament Westminster will remain an undemocratic , English dominated, Parliament, with three dissatisfied devolved nations and must inevitably break-up.

  229. Andy smith says:

    I’ve waited 40 years for someone to have a real go at the self proclaimed ” peoples champion “.
    A paper that has always acted against the interests of the Scottish population in it’s total commitment to the labour party ( long since deceased )
    So a big thanks from me stu, and welcome back!

  230. Tackety Beets says:

    Sorry only speed read posts tonight as short of time etc

    Martin Compston endorses the ” Scottish Independent ”

    Its implied / intending to be an on-line & printed press , may be worth keeping an eye on it ?

    Can’t wait to say Good-night to the ” Rangers News ” as the DR is known in certain areas .

  231. Dr Jim says:

    If Polish people thought they would be turfed out if we got Independence, Did English people think they would have to go too, or all the other nasty furriners, still could happen, Nigel could end up holding the balance of power, I mean technically if we’re better together and all British, then us Scots are an Ethnic minority
    I can almost hear Nigels voice echoing around the country
    “Alone” “Alone”
    Then Scotland can go back to its proper use, Huntin an Shootin an Stalking don’t you know
    But only when her Maj allows

  232. @ Robert Peffers
    I need a short answer for twitter .
    Q What is Britain

    Q what does Britain mean

    Q Does Britain actually exist

    Q Can you be part of Britain

  233. @ Dr Jim

    Like the ethnic cleansing of the Highlands in the 18th 19th century by the Uk establishment.

  234. Kenny says:

    `Edinburgh-based Marcin Soltysiak, director of the Polish Community in Scotland, claims that Poles are being doorstepped by pro-Unionists and told they will have to leave the country if the ‘Yes’ campaign wins, as Scotland would have to renegotiate its EU membership if it becomes independent. `

    Is there no group of the population this lot did not lie to? So that is their basis for “better together”, their constitution as it were, the glue which holds us together — a pack of lies, differing only in terms of which group is being addressed? Does anyone seriously believe this can last forever? That we will not be independent by 2020? That the 45% will somehow DROP and not GROW and GROW?!?

  235. Dr Jim says:

    @scot finlayson
    Yep,in my wee attempt at light humour”EXACTLY” and i’ve just watched Scottish Questions if anybody has’nt seen it, you should. Basically Scottish bashing from one and all, on our nasty intimidating tactics and threatening behaviour during the Referendum campaign, but thank goodness the decent people of Scotland voted NO, took me back to when i used to get mad, now i just want to get as sneaky as possible to beat these people “OOH”!!!

  236. arranc says:

    welcome back from your hols.Rev
    . hard work goes on we WILL win

  237. Some light reading for all you insomniacs.

  238. sorry http//

  239. Stoker says:

    Can you imagine what a coup that would be – if we could persuade
    some of those Poles to come over to us and speak out about their
    experiences with the pro-no doorsteppers.

    If we can convince and reassure just 2 or 3 of them I’m sure many more will follow – not to mention the massive blow we would deliver to the liars of project fear.

    Having said that, I am having difficulty believing the entire Scottish Polish community fell for the unionist bullshit.
    But then again, once the seed of doubt has been planted etc.

  240. donald anderson says:

    We had a wonderful Polish wumman in the Maryhill Yes shop. She seemed to be everywhere, doing everything. The local Poles were being told all sort of rubbish lies, that they would lose their European citizenship if we were Independent, etc. She even ran a meeting for poles in the shop.

    We need more like her to show up the native fearties.

  241. Davy says:

    A few things, the Daily Record and the rest of the NO MSM is trying to get us to forget the past two years, when all they did was slag Scotland and its people and tell us we were too useless to run our own country.

    We no longer have to be nice about how the ‘record’ treated us, so don’t buy the rag, if you see someone buying it make disparaging remarks about it, make the person feel embarrassed about buying it. They did exactly the same about Scotland, we are due them absolutely nothing, they choose the NO side and did everything they could to support it. Stuff them and their “VOW”.

    One more point, stop call labour up here “SLAB”, their is nothing scottish about them, it is “BLAB” British Labour, don’t give them the right to call themselves scottish, the people may be Scots but the party is not. The use of Red Torys is fully acceptable and very true.

  242. Stoker says:

    @4.15am – Donald,
    That’s good to hear and that’s exactly the type of person we need
    to get on DVD/YouTube etc, to expose the liars and reassure the
    rest of our Polish community and bring them over to us.

    @7.48am – Well said, Davy.
    I have no intentions of EVER being “nice” to any of the unionist
    establishments. Every single one of them, from the BBC and DR to
    my wee local shop, must be made to pay the price.
    When they opted to promote & vote ‘No’ they opted to destroy my
    dreams, vision, future prosperity and happiness.
    I refuse point-blank to contribute in any way, shape, manner or
    form to their future happiness and prosperity.
    If we don’t take these strict measures against them then we are
    accepting what they did to us and our country and we will be
    constantly subjected to very much more of the same. We must send
    a clear message that their behaviour was, and always will be, unacceptable.

    I think what people call these scumbags is really down to a matter of personal individual choice, although i get your point about BLAB/SLAB and completely agree with you 100%.
    Yes, when talking to ordinary ‘no-Joe’s’ on the street etc, we should keep a civil tongue in our heads because getting angry with, or insulting someone never converted anyone. But if the
    political and organisational leaders of the ‘No’ campaign think
    we should be treating THEM with politeness etc then i’m afraid,
    as far as i’m concerned, they’re in for a very long wait. If it
    was up to me i would have every last one of the ("Tractor" - Ed)s put up
    against a wall at dawn. And i’m not joking.
    There can be no room for “forgive & forget” and there is absolutely no room for “uniting” Scotland until the unionist lies and propaganda stop and we are a free and Independent country.

  243. donald anderson says:

    Stoker (any relation tae Brahm?)

    Her name is Kash (sp?)

    She is a graduate and a very active person and would be ideal for spat in the next Party Political broadcast. She was oot in the Skwerr last Sunday.

    Boab Doris is her MSP and Maryhill had the highest Yes vote.

  244. Drunken Hobo says:

    @crisiscult – But if that were the case, why aren’t the ones who were swayed by lies speaking up? Quite simply, it’s because they weren’t swayed, they were always going to vote “no” no matter what. It was just an excuse.

    In an era where the sum total of all human knowledge is at one’s fingertips, ignorance is not an excuse. If people don’t know about the McCrone report & the failed promises of devolution in 1979, it’s because they didn’t want to know. Encouraging critical thinking is all well and good, but it still requires willing participants. 2.6 million in Scotland aren’t willing. At present they don’t have to think, and that’s absolutely perfect for them.

  245. Stoker says:

    @12pm – Donald,
    “any relation tae Brahm?” – jeezo, Donald, don’t give up yer day job. lol

    Being a graduate obviously means she’s a well educated and intelligent woman, therefore making her far more appealing and
    ideal for dispelling the lies via various forms of broadcast.
    By that i mean she is more likely to reach out and appeal to a
    far wider audience than some others might.

    Maybe setting up some sort of DVD recording with Kash and putting it out there onto the internet is something which should be seriously looked into. Or someone, with Kash’s consent, contacting the appropriate department of the SNP with a view to
    getting her message across in any future broadcasts.

    I neither know Kash nor live in Glasgow so I really don’t think it would be very appropriate for me to pursue this opportunity but nevertheless, i don’t think we should let these obnoxious lies go unchallenged and someone really needs to pursue this idea.

    Slightly wondering off topic now a wee bit, Donald, but you made my day with the “Maryhill had the highest Yes vote.” I hold a soft spot for, and some fond memories of, Maryhill. I used to work for Lafferty’s (of Govan) back in the 1980’s and it was us who did the scaffolding on the new builds on Oran Street, just along from the Viking Bar. I worked alongside an auld timer, (originally fae Maryhill but long since dead, I think), named
    Robert ‘Smudger’ Smith – we just called him Smudger, it was him
    who taught me the scaffolding. Many a good time we had on a Friday after work with one or two sherbets in the Viking bar.

  246. donald anderson says:

    Brahm Stoker. They laffed art Einstein, but didnae laff at his brother Frank.

    I had a scaffolding mate and his faither from that part of Maryhill, who also worked after the great storm. The chimney came through the roof of our top flat in Wilton Drive and just missed my son’s cot. I was called home from nightshift and the city looked like a bomb site. What the storm left unfinished in Maryhill the Labour Cooncil managed to make worse.

    I’m sure we will hear merr o’ Kasha and hope Bob Doris picks up on that.

  247. Ken500 says:

    No comment on the Daily Record.

  248. caledonia says:

    Biggest scandal here is that rag being worth 55p

  249. Andrew Scott says:

    The article is great and there were far too many good comments to read even half so apologies if this is a repeat.

    I’ve seen comments and urgings WE need to become the media. I just feel we are powerless unless we have a media presence on the same footing as the others. Now, i guess TV is a non-starter but a daily paper? I did read a couple of comments suggesting that is something we need. The Sunday Herald is great but there are a lot of No voters who, frankly and admittedly slightly condescendingly, wouldn’t know a Sunday paper unless it was wrapped around fish and chips.

    I’m feeling kind of impotent despite keeping up to date on Facebook, going to Hope over Fear rally, etc. When and how do we (counter) attack?

  250. On the subject of accepting and moving on…

    I Personally can’t believe the Record has the balls to take this approach. How is it they still sell any copies at all?

  251. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Yooz may find this link of interest:-

    I’ve been in their office so it’s not a hopeful myth! Harry, the ‘front man’ says their intention is to start as weekly and, if there’s a good take-up, it could be expanded.

    They will be using 3 mothballed printed presses across the country, to give national coverage. Thus not dependent on the MSM to print (like the Metro, which is printed on the Daily Record presses).

  252. Gary Wilson says:

    Well said Stoker
    I agree with you the No vote destroyed the hope of a Fairer better Scotland. Having just left the Labour party a few weeks ago after expressing my disgust in their toxic alliance with the Tories it is some comfort to see them waking up to the massive defeat that lies ahead for them in Scotland.
    For me the Media won the referendum for No and we need to keep up the momentum that the Yes campaign had amongst those without hope on the streets, on facebook and through any means we can. The hope of a pro independence paper is great but it will take more than that. I have just joined the SNP as for me they offer the best chance for independence and I refuse to give up on the dream of a fairer Scotland.

  253. Ali says:

    Coming late to this article it’s probably too late to comment that it would have been much improved without childish references to learning disabilities and alzheimer’s

    We will only win by not only continuing to be right and continuing to be firm, but by continuing to be moral and positive and civil.

    Let’s everybody raise their game, The goal is within sight if we keep the foot on the gas

  254. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “When does the next set of circulation figures for the DR get published, and where?”

    They get published every month on allmediascotland.

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