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Wings Over Scotland


The news we’ve all been waiting for

Posted on November 22, 2016 by

Namely, that of a 100%-certain victory in indyref 2:

mcternanpredicts18

We might take the rest of the day off to celebrate.

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247 to “The news we’ve all been waiting for”

  1. Craig P says:

    Hooray! Pishtradamus has spoken!

  2. Bruce L says:

    LMAO he isn’t even right on the second point, as the whole “you MUST have the Euro” argument is so full of holes it sinks without a trace any time anyone like McTernan tries floating it again.

  3. Roddy Nicoll says:

    Actually , I think he’s right. I mean law of averages means that even someone who spouts so much pish has to very occasionally guess the correct outcome!! ?

    After all even a broken watch is right twice a day.

  4. heraldnomore says:

    And there was me worried they were going to force us to use the pound.

  5. John Moss says:

    I’m really really worried. Nostradamus has spoken. Maybe this time he’s got it right…?

  6. Desimond says:

    For ages now its been bugging me who John McTernan reminds me off…I’ve been racking my brain trying to place it…now I have it

    PALLADIN from Glen Michaels Cartoon Cavalcade!

  7. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Craig P @ 9.55am

    Hooray! Pishtradamus has spoken!

    Pure dead brilliant.

  8. mealer says:

    Pishtradamus.

  9. John Edgar says:

    Does he have the “full shilling” or us it the Euro?
    What continent us he in?

  10. Soutron says:

    I’m just back from visiting Iceland and was amazed by the place, and not just by the stunning landscapes. All of their electricity is renewable (mainly from geothermal energy) and almost all of their fruit and vegetables are grown in greenhouses powered by geothermal energy. Heating and leccy is cheap as a result – no cold pensioners there. Social healthcare, free university, no standing army (just a coast guard and patrol ships the UK should be jealous of), sovereign currency, well maintained roads/infrastructure and an extremely low level of unemployment.

    All this in a country with a population of 330’000. I’ll laugh in the face of any unionist who tells me we’re too small to go it alone next campaign.

    Sitting in a modern, beautifully appointed Keflavik airport waiting to fly home to Scotland I felt a small twinge of the sadness I felt on September 19th imagining what could have been. I felt jealous of the Icelandic people but also really proud for them and what they have achieved for their country. Walking into arrivals at Glasgow, the years of under-investment was instantly noticeable. It wasn’t like that in Reykjavik, I bet it’s not like that at Heathrow either.

  11. CmonIndy says:

    ‘Pishtradamus’! Made my day that Craig P.

  12. Smallaxe says:

    John Edgar says:

    “What continent us he in?”

    Incontinent,it has been known to effect exTRA edITORS.

    Peace always

  13. Nana says:

    @Craig P

    ‘Pishtradamus’ Brilliant

  14. Proud Cybernat says:

    We really don’t need Mystic McTernan to inversely imply that IndyRef#2 is in the bag for YES. I have absolutely no doubt this time that YES will win IndyRef#2. With indyref#1 and the last minute intervention by the BBC, the Daily Redcoat’s ‘Vow’, breaking purdah and Westminster throwing the kitchen sink at us, I felt it would be lost.

    Not this time. I have absolutely no doubt that YES will win IndyRef#2–and convincingly so.

    But I take nothing for granted and it will require us all to work like demons. And it will require the SG to ensure much more stringent rules are applied – exit polls, strict postal vote, one person-one vote (not two votes to someone with two houses), votes kept in Scotland etc.

  15. Macart says:

    Oh Jings! 😀

    About bloody time.

  16. mogabee says:

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

    I feel this will be the one and only time I’ve ever felt the need to thank John McTernan, Tony Blair’s personal astrologer! 🙂

  17. heedtracker says:

    oops
    heedtracker says:
    22 November, 2016 at 10:54 am
    In ye good olde days MacT’s a polemicist but its just troll now.

    Fiddle with his wiki thing, it’s changed instantly back. We’ll get you yet:D

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McTernan

  18. David McKeen says:

    From now on, in all communications, John McTernan shall be known as Pishtradamus until the end of time, pmsl.

  19. Ambrose Harper says:

    Pishtradamus – oh, that is just too funny 🙂

  20. Sandy says:

    The Oracle! The Oracle has spoken!

  21. Ruglonian says:

    Pishtradamus – Craig P you deserve some kind of award for this 😀

  22. Cuilean says:

    Soutron

    My sister is just back from 7 days in Iceland and loved it apart from the prices.

    The alleged mighty pound’s crash sees a one person pizza costing £35! Two carry out coffees were £17.50! A kid’s Icelandic wool tammy set her back £45!

    Iceland’s population of £350,000 decimates the ‘mighty’ English pound – coz its not ours, remember!

    The UK, post-Brexit is going over a financial cliff.

    If Scotland doesn’t vote to leave the ‘UK in denial’ yoonybin, in Indy2, Scotland will deserve all the self-inflicted pain we get.

  23. MJS Dundee says:

    Aye …, but don’t you know The Tony excites everyone and will be making a much-welcomed comeback!

    And he could be right there. Re the ‘excited’ and ‘welcome’. Though perhaps not quite in the sense he (JMcT) imagines.

    I suspect ‘using the Euro’ may well be an issue in IndyRef2, so he may be correct in that also. But again, not in the sense that he thinks he is right … .

    … The way things are going, Scotland might need out of the pound so fast to escape the UKOK’s impending doom that we may need to use the Euro temporarily and until we get our own currency sorted out properly.

    There’s not much value difference between a Pound and a Euro by now and frankly I’d rather have my temporary currency underpinned by the German, French (etc) economies than by that lot down-by.

  24. Ken500 says:

    Imagine Tony Blair/Murphy surfacing. The philosophers of Doom who caused the migration crisis which led to the (Cameron) EU Ref. They are destroying the world economy to line their pockets with £Billions of public money. Creating £Trillions of debt. They should be in jail. The devastation they have caused. Blair/Cameron the worst PM’S in living memory. Even Trump under Congress constraint could not do much worse than them. If Trump can stop the illegal, eternal war in the Middle East. It will do the world a favour. If not he will be gone.

  25. Kev Murray says:

    This is worrying!(for for brexiters), I mean does this prediction actually mean the UK isn’t leaving the EU?

  26. frogesque says:

    @Roddy Nichol 10.11

    A broken watch is only right twice a day if it still has both hands. In McT’s case that’s two brain cells.

    Pishtradamus! Rofpml! Craig, that’s brilliant!

  27. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I am a member of a coffin-dodgers news discussion group, which meets fortnightly. Two or three of us are pro-Indy, but, the vast majority are resolutely middle-class, comfortably well-off UKOK, old-school Tories.

    I am bashing my head off a brick wall with many of them. I demonstrate how they are being lied to by the media, how Unionist pish is just that, they say: “Yes, ok, but, we’re still better together”.

    Lost causes, many of them, but, since I, in my 70th year, am one of the youngest, they’ll not be around too-long.

    The former teacher, who leads the class, is, I suspect, since he gives little or nothing away, pro-Indy. He has tried to show how much better off we might be under a Scandinavian-style welfare system, but, some of them, including ladies who only drink wine, cannot see past the terrible price of a pint of lager in Norway or Iceland.

    I explain how the “£15 million black hole” is pure Unionist pish – since the Scottish Government is not allowed to run a deficit. “Aye but” is the answer, and, though I tell them, anyway, a Scottish Government would not run the economy as the Tories do. Somehow, it doesn’t get through.

    I never thought it would be this difficult to win over hearts and minds. But, when you read something like this from McTernan, it reinvigourates.

    The class is tomorrow – once more unto the breach dear friends.

  28. Breeks says:

    Lifted this off Twitter, so I really hope it doesn’t embed the whole video.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/samkalidi/status/800844608053735425/video/1

    In the spirit of Danny Kaye being a cockney, and Brigadoon accents being an American production, I get the strange and uncomfortable feeling there may be bona fire Nazi storm troopers turning in their frozen graves at this.

    It’s surreal, but it isn’t Nazism. It’s pastiche Nazism spelt with 3K’s, and something malignant and dangerous flying under false pretences until it has secured enough ground to properly reveal itself. It’s hate looking for a victim and a cause. It’s fascism which reads Nazi doctrines for the instructions because it hasn’t a clue where it’s actually going under its own steam.

    I’m not even sure Donald Trump knows what he has started. Trump strikes me as the stereotypical good ole American boy who watches the movie Patton twice before breakfast while spinning his own pearl handled revolvers. There’s plenty time to watch it twice because he fast forwards past all the bits where Patton is making an arse of himself which leaves 10 minutes adulation at the end.

    At the risk of being flippant about an issue which can cut the soul deeply, I wonder if those Native American’s look towards Scotland’s ancient sovereignty, and rue the lack of Papal recognition of their own sovereignty. Then they must look at us, the Scots, all we have safeguarding our country and heritage, and wonder what the hell it is we are waiting for. If we don’t really want our country, maybe there is some kind of exchange??…

  29. Ken500 says:

    Blair was against Indy Ref 1 and mucked up the world economy. No one has voted for him and are hardly ever likely to. He can’t walk the streets without protection because of his views. He receives round the clock protection paid for by the taxpayers he conned and abused.

    Aka Thatcher/Reagan/Clinton/Bush Brown, Cameron, Osbourne, May Hammond, Fallon, Farague et al. Secrets coming out 30 years later. Kept secret under the 30’years Official secrets Act. Or 100 years in the case of Iraq and Dunblane. To hide their criminality.

    Imagine having to show a passport or ID before getting medical treatment. How any people will die? With no documentation. To save £1/4Billion of a £110Billion+ NHS bill. It will cost more to implement the bureaucracy. More would be saved overall, with less spent on healthcare, by putting a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol or a tax on sugary drinks.

  30. Kenneth Shaw says:

    Pishtradamus, epic Colin , look forward to the B.B.C mini series.

  31. Iain More says:

    I have just recovered, well just about recovered from having a side splitting roll of agony on the floor. Pishtradamus has spoken!

  32. Bob Mack says:

    Already covered in epic form by Colin P.

  33. Greannach says:

    Mystic McTernan, thank you for making my day.

    Julia Gillard, Gordon Brown, Jim Murphy, Hillary Clinton.

    I’m sorry about Gillard and Clinton, but let’s hope the mystic predictions keep on the well-worn track.

  34. brian watters says:

    IWW – inveterate wager welcher !!

  35. archie (not erchie) says:

    Pishtradamus made me laugh so much it’s fair ruined my undies. How do I translate into Thai ‘skid marks’ …..probably ends in kraaap.

  36. INDEPENDENT says:

    Socrates McSporran,

    Maybe if you bring up the fact that the pension triple lock and annual index linked pension increase (at the higher rate of annual inflation estimates,) has just been chucked down the Swanney!!
    It might make them rethink their position
    All the best tomorrow.

  37. Ken500 says:

    Trump got 1% less votes to become President. There is a disporia of Scottish descent of 10% of US voters. Scotland has close connections in the US right up to Congress. Scots were prominent in the Founders of the US. Historical ties of the clearances and migration. Most US politicians will be aware of that in a close run electoral system. It could be advantageous to Scotland. Scotland will be viewed favourably. It could bring advantages. In the US and Europe.

    Chinese – ‘Scotland he land of invention’. Many countries sporeciate all things Scottish. Medical, education, Burns, tartan fashion, music whisky, food and drink, water, fish, beef, even seed potatoes go all over the world. Oil & Gas expertise. The Celtic connectio. In the EU and world wide. TV – telephone – internet connections. Never has such a relative small county played such a significant part of importance in the world. Including the US.

  38. Scott says:

    Sorry folks O/T Maybe I am being paranoid but just switched on BBC news Boris taking questions when A Salmond turn came BBC left a quick switch to SKY News he was still there for his full question.Don’t tell me BBC meant to do this surely not??

  39. Macandroid says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran @ 11:27

    “the terrible price of a pint of lager in Norway or Iceland”

    Ask them to compare the average take home salary in Norway or Iceland with the UK’s and they will see how much bigger a chunk of their cash a pint is here than in those countries.

    Also how do the pensions compare with the UK’s derisory one?

  40. liz says:

    LOL Pishtradamus.

    @Socrates McSporran – well done you for not giving up.
    Sometimes I really wish that these – I’m alright Jacks could experience what it would be like under a Tory government.

    They will be presumably well off but not ultra rich and would be means tested for everything – goodbye winter fuel allowance, free NHS, free travel etc etc.

    Experienced much of the same in indyref1 in East Ren, selfish sods

  41. defo says:

    Lolz

    I see him as the real life Waylon J Smithers.

  42. JaceF says:

    You have to have operated your own stable currency for two years before you can apply to take the Euro, the only currency option for an Indy Scotland is it’s own currency – fcuk the pound.

  43. Dan Huil says:

    This is excellent news. A pee-rage for Pishtradamus!

  44. Disco Dave says:

    Does this mean his outstanding monies owed to you after your agreed Trump/Clinton wager will be in Euros Stu?

  45. Bob Mack says:

    Cannot wait to hear Hammond tomorrow talking about investment to promote infrastructure. You remember that don’t you ?

    It is exactly what Nicola was demanding after the last elections and for which she was shouted down at every opportunity by Tories and the media for adding to a deficit. Well, now it comes to pass.

    The SNP were yet again way ahead of the game. Wonder how many Yoons will remember that little fact ?

  46. Bob Mack says:

    @Dan Hull.

    Arise McTernan Urine ness !

  47. ScottishPsyche says:

    Wistful longing for times gone by. Is that a tear in his eye? A wee break in his voice? No one will ever love Tony like John does.

    When he looks genuinely bewildered at Caroline Lucas and accuses her of abusing Tony – Lol!

  48. Dan Huil says:

    @Bob Mack 12;25pm

    Ordure! Ordure!

  49. David Mills says:

    Tell me again out of the EU membership how many use the Euro?
    Why is that could it be because all though they have agreed to the principle they have not voluntary complete ERM2 and though are not qualified to used the Euro?

    Or is magic

  50. Proud Cybernat says:

    “I am bashing my head off a brick wall with many of them. I demonstrate how they are being lied to by the media, how Unionist pish is just that, they say: “Yes, ok, but, we’re still better together”.”

    It takes a keen intellect to recognise just how much the Westminster system of governemnt has damaged Scotland’s prospects, keeping us down, holding us back. Many just don’t see it because they simply do not WANT to see it.

    They have lived many decades, through several generations. Their experience is that the British state has served them well so what’s the point of them rocking their own boat in their twilight years?

    Perhaps they should ask their grandchildren and their great-grandchildren (since, all things being equal, the young have a bigger investment in the future) how they would like them to vote come IndyRef2?

    “Dear Grandma and Grandpa,

    During the last independence referendum, you both voted NO and I voted YES. If you remember, before the vote I tried to explain to you why voting NO was bad for Scotland and its people but you dismissed my views with a wave of the hand, without any proper consideration of what I was actually explaining to you. You did not properly listen to the argument I was making.

    That is your inalienable right and I would never ever deny you that. How could I? You believe your longevity endows you with the wisdom to know and to do the right thing. And I know you truly believed you were doing the right thing by voting NO in 2014. Perhaps you even believed by voting NO you were trying to protect me from myself, from the impetuousness of my youth?

    You may be right. What I cannot accept though, is that longevity of itself imbues one with wisdom; longevity of itself does not mean you automatically ‘know better’ than anyone else. This is a complex matter and it requires a thorough understanding of many issues. I know you often could not be bothered with such complex minutiae and I know it often tired you to even listen to me. But what you have to understand is that, by not fully understanding the issues, you voted NO from an uninformed position. You gave your NO vote for a belief in the past rather than in hope for the future. And for that, I find it really difficult to forgive you.

    When you are gone I will be left here living with the consequences of your uniformed vote. But you are not gone yet and we can still solve this. In the not too distant future we will be given a second chance. Please listen to me grandma and grandpa. I have a lot to say and a lot of hope for the future of this great wee country of ours.

    The United Kingdom you both hold so very dear has become a very dark and unrecognisable place where xenophobia and racial attacks are now common place. The xenophobes are pushing the UK and its economy over a cliff. If you truly want your grandchildren to have any secure future then you simply have to listen to what we tell you. I want out of this horrible place. It is holding me back. Please don’t vote again to keep me incarcerated here. I want a future that I have a full and proper say in. I want a future where I have hope and that is a future I can live with.

    Love you both forever,

    Becky xxx”

  51. Ken500 says:

    The EU Ref could be declared null and void because of the part Farague/UKIP played in it using misappropriated public funds to fund electorate expenses. Going back years. Farague worst nightmare has begun. The winner loses everything. Gambled and lost.

    The UK GE could be declared null and void because the Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. What is being done about it?

    There would have to be another GE and EU election.

    The Unionists have commit electoral fraud with impunity in Scotland. Broken purdah rules and received illicit funding from outwith Scotland. Breaking electoral rules and reneging on VOW’s. What is being done about it. They should be sanctioned .

    Another Indy Ref must be called.

  52. archie (not erchie) says:

    @ ken500 1155am – am in Thailand just now and when my friend introduces me as coming from Scotland the first question I get is…… ‘Do you know Jonny Walker?’ certainly seems well known, this Walker guy…lots of friends here.

  53. Ken500 says:

    That is the only way for the Tory/Unionists to get out of their mess. To have a GE and lose. To have another Indy Ref. The majority in Scotland will win.

  54. Stan Free says:

    Nostradumbass has spoken

  55. KOF says:

    @ Dan Huil 12.20

    “This is excellent news. A pee-radge for Pishtradamus!”

    There, fixed that for you. 😉

  56. Robert Peffers says:

    @Roddy Nicoll says: 22 November, 2016 at 10:11 am:

    ” … After all even a broken watch is right twice a day”

    Just to prove there are exceptions to most rules, Roddy, a 24 hour dial on a broken watch is only right once per day.

    The UKoK seer could be a 24 hour seer – mind you the bold McT would probably fall into the 28 hour per day category just to be conter.

  57. Effijy says:

    During the World Cup, an Octopus was tasked
    With swimming to 1 of 2 teams Flag, in order
    To predict the match winner.

    That Octopus was correct 80% of the time.
    Wouldn’t it be cheaper, quicker and more accurate
    for the BBC and Herald to buy a big fish tank
    and an Ictopus rather than Pishtradedamus?

    McTernan is even in the wrong party, as he has
    Always declared his love of Thatcher.
    He couldn’t pick his nose if he had an extra pair of hands.

    Radio shortbread reports NHS Scotland crisis, again.
    Over to their political correspondent?
    Why isn’t it over to their Health Correspondent?
    Because the story is to be made political propaganda!

    We have the best NHS in the UK,
    Do they suggest we change to a less well
    Performing English or Welsh health disaster?

  58. Jack Murphy says:

    John McTernan a failed politico adviser to failed Australian,Westminster and Scottish politicians——-and someone clearly has money to burn!
    PR WEEK:- McTernan joins Westminster Policy Unit.February 2016.
    “Sean Worth, director of WPI, said: “John has one of the most strategic minds in political communications.
    He has a wealth of experience advising some of the most senior decision makers both in the UK and across the world. We are thrilled that he is joining our growing team.”

    What a shambles. 🙁
    PR WEEK:-
    http://archive.is/FYClR

  59. Chic McGregor says:

    The great inverter of those Greek mythological characters Midas and Cassandra has spoken.

    Everything he touches goes belly up because people believed his prophecies which turned out to be untrue.

    It is a great gift.

  60. Chic McGregor says:

    “John has one of the most strategic minds in political communications.”

    Should that not have ‘state-tragic’?

  61. Robert Peffers says:

    @MJS Dundee says: 22 November, 2016 at 11:11 am:

    ” … until we get our own currency sorted out properly.

    We already have our own currency – the Pound Sterling, it is not the English pound sterling it is the United Kingdom Pound Sterling and when I checked this morning, first thing, I noted the Kingdom of Scotland was still one of the only two kingdoms united in the United Kingdom.

    Also when I checked my hip pocket the bank notes in it were definitely all Scottish Bank notes. So, when we take back our independence, and thus the United Kingdom is no more, we can simply retain the Scottish Pound Sterling and NOT tie it to the English Pound Sterling.

    BTW: I had a good laugh at the BBC Ceefax news this morning. It reports the good news that, “Government” borrowing had fallen more than expected to £4.8bn, thanks to a record amount of tax income for that month.

    The amount borrowed was £1.6 bn lower than the corresponding month last year. Then it said that, “These figures come a day ahead of the Autumn Statement”, and a wee bell in my head went, “ting!”, and my natural suspicions were alert.

    Then I noticed this little gem, “Borrowing, excluding state-owned banks, fell by £5.6bn to £48.6bn.

    Aye!
    Richt!

    You just cannot believe how these numpties imagine we are all so bloody stupid as to NOT understand that if the banks excluded from the other government figures are government owned then whatever those banks borrowed is part of the government debt.

    Do they think we do not know the Banks owned by the government buy up government gilts, (bonds), in order to keep the published figures down?

  62. A2 says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran @ 11:27

    Having recently been in Norway I found the prices of necessities, fruit/veg , bread etc. pretty much comparable, alcohol was indeed more expensive due to higher tax as was eating out.

    oh and if you have an electric car, right at the moment, charging is free!

  63. HandandShrimp says:

    Funny how all these Yoons are now embracing their inner UKIP. Do they actually stand for anything?

  64. Breeks says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    Let them do the work Socrates. Put forward the supposition that the Union had never existed, and have them argue why, if the Union didn’t exist, you would have to invent it.

    Then, assuming they can answer that with a degree of diligence, have them explain why such a Union would require the abdication / joining together of sovereignty. Surely the Union could theoretically flourish without such a drastic measure. What makes joint sovereignty so fundamental?

    If the Union makes such absolute sense to them, then it shouldn’t be dreadfully difficult to articulate the reasons why. Be ready to scythe through a wave of pish, delusion and unsubstantiated “facts”, because ultimately the Union does not make sense.

    If it didn’t exist, you’d rejoice that it didn’t. You certainly wouldn’t invent it.

  65. Macart says:

    @HandandShrimp

    “Funny how all these Yoons are now embracing their inner UKIP. Do they actually stand for anything?”

    Nope!

    They only know what they’re against.

  66. harry mcaye says:

    With his usual impeccable timing, that must mean those two-polls done two weeks ago are about to see the light of day. Yes 55% anyone?

  67. Breeks says:

    Just to add… the UK can do a Brexit because it DIDN’T forfeit its sovereignty to Europe.

    The only reason the Act of Union requires Scottish sovereignty to be muted is because it would otherwise interfere with the routine subjugation of Scotland’s interests.

  68. Brian Fleming says:

    Soutron at 10:27

    Aye Soutron, your comparison of Glasgow airport and Keflavik/Reykjavik puts me in mind of the first time I visited Tallinn, just after Estonia got Independence. The harbour was like Saltcoats, or some other rundown unemployment blackspot in Scotland. A few years later it was transformed. That’s what happens when you get to control your own country.

  69. Nana says:

    O/T

    You can bet your bottom dollar or what’s left of the pound that Trump is working against Scotland in any way he can.

    Already has his useful ukip idiots following orders. What will he ask of the tory clowns?

    http://archive.is/gjaVy

  70. frogesque says:

    O/t.

    First let me say that any neonatal death or stillbirth is tragic and painful experience for the families concerned and the trauma can last many years in some cases. I know, I have been there.

    It is right and proper for full investigations surrounding the circumstances and more especially so if there is poor practice or neglect at maternity units. No one wants to see an avoidable incident.

    However, does the BBC’s investigations loudly announced on the Scottish News really help or are they using dead babies to beat SNHS and, by implication, the SG? I worry that their interference is not helpful. Stuff happens, it is absolutely harrowing but childbirth always has and always will carry risks for mother and child.

    I do worry that prospective new mothers will loose faith in the maternity services and try a go it alone approach with even worse outcomes.

  71. Fergus Green says:

    ‘Pishtrodamus’ – love it 🙂

    With the £ rapidly becoming a basket case currrency and with the dollar not far behind, perhaps people will start to feel a bit less negative about the Euro in future? How about a Scottish pound, linked to the Euro?

  72. Andrew McLean says:

    Chic McGregor says: 1:25

    Cassandra actually spoke the truth, the curse was she wasn’t believed, see big wooden horse.

    Pishtradamus curse is that by saying one thing, the opposite is sure to happen, again the gods show their funny side.

  73. Andrew McLean says:

    inverted, got you Chic!

  74. Arbroath1320 says:

    Oh look numpty Mcternshite spouting more ofhis shite this time about the Euro.

    Of course he has not got a clue about the Euro but we all knew that anyway … right? 😉

    Just for clarity here there are, at present 28 countries, dropping to 27 at some point in time, in the E.U. as folks know. Of this 28 there are 9 countries who do not use the Euro. These countries are:

    Bulgaria
    Croatia
    the Czech Republic
    Hungary
    Poland
    Romania
    Sweden
    Denmark
    the United Kingdom.

    Of these nine Denmark and the U.K. have opt out clauses. Most notably is Sweden which joined the E.U. in 1997 and yet it STILL does not use the Euro explain that one to us John if you can, which of course he can’t!

    There is another aspect of the Euro that poor wee Johnny boy seems oblivious to and that is in joining the E.U. it does not mandate the use of the Euro from day one … it can’t and here is the reason why.

    http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/who_can_join/

    http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/convergence_reports/index_en.htm

  75. Soutron says:

    @Cuilean Yeah it wasn’t cheap but we did manage to find a couple of places to get a reasonably priced evening meal (for around £15 each). The supermarket wasn’t too bad either. Got a few Icelandic beers for about a £1 a tin to enjoy in the apartment. Helps that their average wage is about 35’000 euros (with whole lot less of a difference between top and bottom too).

    @Brian Fleming Aye, it’s very telling how well you’re doing as a country. Also felt like a friendly welcome arriving there while all the UK border security shite was everywhere as you get in here. Amazing how many destinations you can fly to with Icelandic air too. Would hope we’d be in a similar position with our own national airline post-indy.

  76. Sassenach says:

    Robert Letters @1-34pm says “Do they think we do not know…..”

    Unfortunately that is exactly the problem – but I do understand that you are trying to help us!!

  77. defo says:

    I don’t do Twitter, merely lurk on the revs page to keep up.
    Could someone who does give him this re the Express SNP Bad du jour.

    REF Scotland is run by former Lib dem MSP Euan Robson.

    Ta in advance.

  78. heedtracker says:

    The class is tomorrow – once more unto the breach dear friends.”

    Good luck. I too have listened to Effie Deansian levels of wealthy Scottish NO campers. Rich English tories in Scotland are mostly patrician, so rich they’ll survive any change, but the rich Scottish tories are UKOK mentalists.

    Its not that much of a UKOK mystery but more mysterious, is how the Scottish toryboy vote percentage is far less than the 55% NO win ref 1, for Ruthie Babes at roughly 20% and Westminster at 14.92%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015_(Scotland)#Votes_summary

    You can see where all of tory BBC led UKOK hackdom, in all newsrooms, are directing their SNP out fire at.

  79. How does this man feed himself, both actually and financially?
    How does he earn money these days?
    Who hires him?
    Is he like Murphy?
    I gather that the Eggman is to coin £200k a year doing ‘something’ for Tony to look at Blair’s Charidee Foundation with his Private Plunder, and meld those nice little earners into one big Not For Profit scam,doubtless to avoid tax.
    Has McTernon got an old New Labour mate as benefactor?
    Osborne, Blair, Murphy and Mc Ternon. What a flat back four they are.

  80. John H. says:

    Breeks 11.28 am.

    Hi Breeks, I heard a longer segment of that extremist’s rant on James O’Brien’s LBC radio show this morning. At one point he asked if his opponents should even be regarded as human beings. When such as he start using such language openly then we are heading for trouble.

  81. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 22 November, 2016 at 11:55 am:

    “Never has such a relative small county played such a significant part of importance in the world. Including the US.”

    You missed out Harris Tweed, paraffin, ATM machines and I believe even photo copiers and telephone among many others, Ken500.

    Not to mention the first efficient Steam engine but there are so many it is not easy to keep track.

    Oh! And the standard operating table for brain surgery, (still hardly changed today), was invented and built by brain surgeon and former engineer Dr Norman Dott.

  82. Soutron says:

    @Arbroath1320 That’s a great wee resource. Note the 3% government deficit to GDP criteria…how are the unionists going to square that circle? ‘You’re going to have a giant deficit’…’You’re going to HAVE to join the Euro’…?

    Obviously we need our own currency first even if we WANTED to join the euro but as Sweden and others have shown, giving your main levers of fiscal control up to the ECB once you have them probably won’t seem too appealing to an iScotland.

  83. Arbroath1320 says:

    I think points like that are central to proving just how ignorant they really are not just about the Euro but the E.U. in general.

    In fact I used the information to tear a rather huge strip off of a certain Tory during the indy ref. He used the “an independent Scotland would have to use the Euro line.” Unfortunately for him I was i the audience ready to pounce on him with the information about the nine non Euro using countries and I finished with a question to him asking if he could explain the Sweden situation which of course he couldn’t. Needless to say his only response was fluff, bluster, fluff and more bluster but saying actually nothing.

    God I loved my moment in the spotlight that night! 😀

  84. Dr Jim says:

    So does McTernan mean that now everything else is AOK it’s only a coin that’s going to be the sole Yoon argument against Independence
    That’ll make for fun telly debates….and short too

  85. heedtracker says:

    Who hires him?
    Is he like Murphy?

    Murphy does panto, He’s behind you Sir Fuckface von Clownstick!!

    This fact o Sir Jim, stems from getting in his way at ikea last spring. You hear Murphy long before you see him and he has what can only be described as theatrically trained stage voice. Why not though. Its good investment for politicos like Jim to be able to belt it out or project their UKOK bullshit at us.

  86. heedtracker says:

    Fuckface von Clownstick is actually US satirists at the Daily Show catchy and entirely appropriate name for Pres Trump. If you right click google Fuckface von Clownstick, this is first up,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

    Actually its second up, google search wise.

  87. Dr Jim says:

    Google Facts

    Out of the 28 countries in the EU only 24 actually use the Euro
    It kinda makes McT the oracle of all knowledge look an Arse as well as sound like one

  88. orri says:

    Have to dispute the idea that Great Britain ever included Ireland. It was a Dominion of the Kingdom of England first and Great Britain Second in much the same way as the Isle of Man is now. The 1801 union was what brought it into the fold as it were. An interesting experiment might be to see how the introduction of a large swathe of MPs to Westminster changed the balance of power and who benefited by it.

  89. bugsbunny says:

    Was McTernan a Stockbroker in the 1929 Wall Street Crash?

    You can imagine him as a 20’s Spiv. Spats on his shoes, white trousers jacket and hat and red waistcoat. In the 20’s people were mortgaging their houses and businesses to buy shares as everyone was making a fortune. IT’S A SURE THING. AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK. Now where did we hear that before?

    And what happened to that sure thing. Or the banks? They collapsed. Let’s hope that the remnants of the British Empire crash and burn just as quick?

  90. Stoker says:

    Craig P says:

    “Pishtradamus has spoken!”

    Cracker! If you never post a comment again Craig you’ll be eternally remembered for that little gem. Made my day! 🙂

  91. heedtracker says:

    Why does Farage throw up Macternan predicts image and vice versa? They seek them here, they seek them there…

    Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 13h13 hours ago
    Many people would like to see @Nigel_Farage represent Great Britain as their Ambassador to the United States. He would do a great job!

    Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
    I cancelled today’s meeting with the failing @nytimes when the terms and conditions of the meeting were changed at the last moment. Not nice

    Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
    Perhaps a new meeting will be set up with the @nytimes. In the meantime they continue to cover me inaccurately and with a nasty tone!

    Fuckface von Clownstick really needs a spin doctor like MacTernan predicts too. Although MacTernan did not predict Trump win, the lucky nutcase.

  92. Fireproofjim says:

    Socrates McGregor,
    Re your thrawn No voting friends- patience my friend.
    They all seem to be in the 65+ age group.
    According to my infallible calculations on the demographics, every year in Scotland about 37,000 No voters pass away and about the same number of enthusiastic sixteen-year-old Yes voters come on to the register. A swing of about 70,000 to yes.
    Obviously there are emigrants from England and young people moving south which will complicate matters, but the inexorable movement is towards Yes.
    I reckon that without any political matters to distort the end result, the demographics alone should take care of things within about three to four years from now.

  93. So according to the seer Mcternan the next Scottish independence referendum will be on the euro according to .

    Well now if Brexit turns out to be as bad is predicted,
    I think the Euro will be the least of the concerns for people in Scotland who may lose their jobs and industries as a result of being taken out of Europe

  94. bjsalba says:

    @Fergus Green

    Prefer Scottish Pound linked to a basket of currencies.

    Safer

  95. orri says:

    Think if we’re having our own currency it should be called the Merk.

  96. Hamish100 says:

    Can I say that some of the language on the site has once again deteriorated.

    On balance though when talking about McTernan, Trump and Blair all acceptable!

    Chancellor of angletterre tomorrow– what bribes will be pulled to show brexit is brexit (have I got that right?)

  97. Chic McGregor says:

    “Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 13h13 hours ago
    Many people would like to see @Nigel_Farage represent Great Britain as their Ambassador to the United States. He would do a great job!”

    Last I checked there had been over 11.5 million applications for Canadian citizenship from USA citizens since Trump’s election.

    Probably more than that.

    Obviously Canada cannot take anything like that amount in the short term.

  98. Robert Peffers says:

    @JaceF says: 22 November, 2016 at 12:12 pm:

    ” … the only currency option for an Indy Scotland is it’s own currency – fcuk the pound”

    Stop talking pish, JaceF. The pound is every bit as much Scottish currency as it is English.

    In the first place the Scots were using Sterling long before the Treaty of Union. Robert Bruce paid the Kingdom of England £100,000 Pounds Sterling as part of the Edinburgh-Northampton Treaty in 1328.

    In the Treaty of Union it was agreed to be the common currency of both partners of the Treaty of Union. The Bank of England has never belonged to a government or monarch of England as it was a private company, “The Guvnor and company of the bank of England”, until nationalised by The United Kingdom” in 1946, and thus was the bank of both the United Kingdom partner Kingdoms. It was called, “The Bank of England”, because the Government of England banked with it not because they owned it.

    Not only that but the Treaty stipulates that the Scottish banks can print their own banknotes. Thus Scotland has already a distinctly different banknote. Now ask yourself how many countries in the World use a currency called the Dollar that has no connection to the USA dollar.

    Why on earth should Scotland land herself with the costs of changing her currency and all the things that would need changed to accommodate it? All they need do is call it the Scottish Pound Sterling but not tie it to what would then be the Kingdom of England Pound Sterling.

    In the first place an oil & gas backed Scottish pound would immediately start to rise in value against the English pound sterling not only because of oil & gas but because Scotland is a net exporter of goods and services and England is a net importer of goods and services including fuel, power and food & drink, all of which it imports, (at very low cost), from Scotland.

    Why oh why do Scots who want to split from the Kingdom of England believe the lies the Westminster liars tell them?

    The United Kingdom was formed as a result of the bipartite Treaty of Union between the three country Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland. It is thus a Kingdom and not a country and when either kingdom leaves they do not leave behind a still united kingdom they leave behind a former kingdom partner.

    Thus the United Kingdom’s assets and debts belong to both former partners and there is no legal bases for the Westminster claim that a division of both assets and debits should be along the lines of the present day population ratios, After all it is the United Kingdom’s policies that saw those population ratios drift even further apart and the United Kingdom has only two equally sovereign partners.

    The Westminster parliament building itself was rebuilt with United Kingdom funds after fire destroyed the old Westminster palace and the present buildings were purpose built with the United Kingdoms funds not those of the Kingdom of England alone.

    There simply cannot be a still united Kingdom when one of only two partners remain. England was not a united Kingdom in 1707 it was the Kingdom of England composed of three distinct countries and the proof of that particular pudding is right there on the document that is basically the birth certificate of the Union – The Treaty of Union document itself. It only has but two signatory kingdoms and Wales joined England as an integral part of England in 1284 and Ireland did so in 1542.

    By that line of thought then Scotland could as equal partner also claim to be the remainder United Kingdom, after all were not the Northern isles once foreign but then given to Scotland as part of a dowry?

  99. ben madigan says:

    @ orri who said “An interesting experiment might be to see how the introduction of a large swathe of MPs to Westminster changed the balance of power and who benefited by it”.

    Like the scottish Act of union the Irish Act was bought and paid for after the ferocious suppression of the 1798 United irishman rebellion, which had been inspired by the ideals of the French revolution.

    The 19th century Irish MPs at Westminster, who were elected as was usual in those times by a very restricted, wealth-related male-only suffrage, achieved a lot after long, hard struggles that were fought out over years of persistent, dogged determination to bring back home what they could. They were also backed up by activists in Ireland, often non-violent,but sometimes violent so the country always had some unrest, however minor and limited in extent to this area or that.

    First up for change was the catholic emancipation act in 1829, which allowed Catholics to access schooling, professions, home ownership etc.However, the obligation to pay tithes to the Church of Ireland (established Irish equivalent of the CofE) remained, causing much resentment.The Tithe war ended with the commutation of tithes in 1838 and their abolition in 1869.

    Skipping over the Famine, the Young irelander and Fenian rebellions, we then had the Land War with its slogan “The land of ireland for the people of ireland” which ended in a series of Land Acts, starting with the Land (Purchase) Act 1903 which allowed Irish tenant farmers buy out their freeholds with UK government loans over 68 years through the Land Commission (an arrangement that has never been possible in Britain itself).

    From the 1870s-80s the Irish parliamentary party with its mandate for Home rule often held the balance of power between Whigs and Tories in Westminster. Home Rule was making strides and the issue eventually forced reform of the house of lords to stop it blocking laws passed by the House of Commons.

    Home Rule was achieved in 1914, suspended because of the outbreak of WWI and the rest as we say is history with the 1916 Easter rising!!!

  100. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dan Huil says: 22 November, 2016 at 12:20 pm
    This is excellent news. A pee-rage for Pishtradamus.

    Ach! Dan. Yer no gaun tae try an tell us McT is gaun tae become a liberal pe’er ir ye?

  101. clipper says:

    Harry McAye 1.44pm

    I have quite a strong feeling that no poll showing a clear lead for Yes would ever see the light of day. If they can fix the media they can have polls rigged too. Anyway polls and pollsters have, in light of recent events, been shown to be unreliable at best.

    Re the Euro etc, if a clear position on currency – no matter how unionists shriek about it – has not been established well before indyref2 then there will be a risk of small/narrow minded fearties bottling it again.

  102. One_Scot says:

    Just a wee tip John.

    A John McTernan statement might carry more weight if your were not a proven welch bag on honouring your debts.

  103. Greannach says:

    August 1939, BBC news studio.

    Mystic; “no, no. There’s going to be no war. And you can take that to the bank.”

  104. ben madigan says:

    @ clipper who said ” I have quite a strong feeling that no poll showing a clear lead for Yes would ever see the light of day. . . Anyway polls and pollsters have, in light of recent events, been shown to be unreliable at best”.

    Pollsters and political pundits in national newspapers/magazines are used by the establishment to “nudge” voters along a certain path.They know all about the psychological pressure exercised by constant advertising.
    https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/trump-triumphs/

  105. Soutron says:

    @Robert Peffers Isn’t it a point of semantics? We can call it the Scottish pound and keep our current notes/print more as required. The important thing is that we have are a sovereign currency issuer i.e. have our own central bank and full control of our monetary policy.

    As long as it’s recognised internationally as a separate currency and is traded as such then it doesn’t matter. I remember being in Latvia and getting a lower rate of exchange for my Scottish notes so we’re already halfway there.

    Wasn’t there something in the treaty of union about scotland maintaining a central bank/mint?

  106. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says: 22 November, 2016 at 1:37 pm:

    Funny how all these Yoons are now embracing their inner UKIP. Do they actually stand for anything?

    Aye! HandandShrimp. Most of them do stand for the so called National Anthem.

  107. heedtracker says:

    Obviously Canada cannot take anything like that amount in the short term.

    Canada’s even more worried than Europe, bar planet toryboy teamGB. If humanity can just get through this neo fascist administration without a thermonuclear war, maybe with Russia, maybe China or global, we’ll do well.

    Sneaky shits like MacT and the rest of the red tory cabal, are just a silly little side show.

  108. MJS Dundee says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    22 November, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    We already have our own currency – the Pound Sterling, it is not the English pound sterling it is the United Kingdom Pound Sterling and when I checked this morning,

    Hi R, and thanks for your many informative works previously.

    I do not disagree with you in the slightest. But look at the mess those down South have made of it! And what it’s reputation will be @ Indy stage is hard to guess.

    I fear it is too closely associated with them and too much trouble to prise it away from them/rescue it. A clean start seems wisest to me.

    Moreover, I’m wary of any period of our currency being tied to those who may be minded towards spiteful reactions.

    Many of the threats made during ProjectFear#1 may have been hyperbole, but they have been made. We also have to expect many more during ProjectFear#3 (as it will be, re Brexit). I’m not sure we can take the chance that they will be all sweetness and light after an Indy Yes vote. Sooner we cut that cord the safer we are.

    So for that reason, rather than focus on the clear historical joint ownership of The Pound, I’d like a clean break for a bit. Temporary Euro-isation seems like the best bet.

    Now it may well be that in due course we would want to call our new currency the Pound Sterling once again. That’s absolutely fine. But let’s have that break for a short while to avoid possible currency spite and to put ourselves into a position whereby our new currency is widely seen and recognised as not being connected to, or controlled by, Westminster!

    Works for me …

  109. Dr Jim says:

    Although I don’t really care what currency Scotland would use, it’s all money, the pound sterling is ours, but more to the point it’s England who’s causing all the financial problems mucking up our currency let them go back to pig bartering and candle wax manufacturing
    They’ve got plenty of Duff politicians they could render down
    Farage could get the job as Sherriff of Nothingham

  110. Broch Landers says:

    I love his bold socio-economic predictions.

    It’s like reading a lobotomised Karl Marx.

  111. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    Robert Bruce paid the Kingdom of England £100,000 Pounds Sterling as part of the Edinburgh-Northampton Treaty in 1328.

    I had forgotten that money changed hands and Scotland had to buy its peace and status.

    It always struck me as a bit arse for elbow. Should they not have been compensating us for all the trouble that had caused over the previous 30 odd years!?

  112. Craig P says:

    Glad youse liked Pishtradamus. It’s all in the timing…

    Anyway, the way things are going maybe McTernan will be right. Maybe there never will be a second indyref. In these mad times it’s not impossible that the UK will stay in the EU having voted to leave… and that the UK will dissolve anyway despite Scotland having voted to stay…

  113. Glamaig says:

    Soutron says:
    22 November, 2016 at 4:03 pm
    @Robert Peffers Isn’t it a point of semantics? We can call it the Scottish pound and keep our current notes/print more as required.

    We can keep our notes but we’ll need a new coinset as they wont have the same value. I wont be sorry to see the end of the current mess of coins with several kilograms of loose change after a night out.

    I hope we have something similar to the old Deutschmark coin set – the most perfectly designed ever IMO.

  114. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker

    I know it isn’t you – thirty minutes ago my website received a highly abusive letter from “Heedtracker [at] hotmail [dot] com”

    Be careful no one is exploiting your address.

    And keep truckin’.
    GB

  115. Robert Peffers says:

    @orri says: 22 November, 2016 at 2:57 pm:

    “Have to dispute the idea that Great Britain ever included Ireland.”

    Of course it was never part of Great Britain for Great Britain is the geographically, “greatest”,(in size), island of the British Isles or British archipelago.

    What was being claimed was that the term, “Great Britain”, was already being used wrongly as propaganda way back then. There is also a, mainly English, misuse of the term inferring there is some other form of greatness than just being the biggest island. Great Britain only contains Scotland to the north, England to the south and Wales to the south west.

    ” … It was a Dominion of the Kingdom of England first and Great Britain Second in much the same way as the Isle of Man is now.”

    The Isle of man is not a Dominion of England. It is a Crown, but not a Westminster, Protectorate.

    In truth it is part of Her Majesty’s United Kingdom but not under Her Majesty’s Government of Her United Kingdom. Man is independent of the Westminster Parliament and under the Protection of the Queen.

    It couldn’t be a dominion of Great Britain because Great Britain is the greatest, (biggest), British Island and contains only the three countries of Scotland, England and Wales.

  116. Jack O'Lantern says:

    While it’s all fun and games with the predictions there is one prediction I fear more than most.

    What if after finally seeing the light that the only way for Labour to grow as a Party is to support independence and escape forever Westminster… Kezia Dugdale does an about turn and supports Yes in indyref2…. we’d be doomed.

  117. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah yes, indeed. As an aside, the Herald series of “Beyond Brexit” is unvelievably good, so good the articles get few comments. I don’t think either side of btl’ers know what to make of it, or want to risk interfering.

    I see 3 main battlefields for IR2 and before.

    1). EU. 62% Remain, but 30% of YES voters voted Leave. That’s a total of 77%, plus the NO voters that may have changed or be ready to change, their minds about Leave.

    2). Deficit. This includes the silly cry “Your deficit is too high to join the EU”. No it isn’t, our onshore deficit is steadily dropping and has been for 6 years in terms of percentage of GDP. At that rate in another 6 years it’ll be less than the 3%.

    3). Exports to rUK. Well, they’re over 10% less than the rUK exports to us. At least.

    GERS itself is part of 2 and 3.

    Next job for me is back to my EU blog, I’m analysing the EU contribution, and estimating our own one. Then I want to add a couple of small compact opinion paragraphs but with a few appropriate links, about our application to “stay in” the EU, after a YES vote but before Brexit, and also before we actually get Independence.

  118. CameronB Brodie says:

    Desimond
    I’m not sure if I agree.

    PALLADIN from Glen Michaels Cartoon Cavalcade, was wise and well-meaning.

    McTernan’s an ignorant WANK and possibly a bit of a neo-fascist, IMHO. Well, he does spout pish in ‘support’ of British National Socialism, in a rather Tory fan-boy sort of way.

    His ideology is stronger than either his rationality or his sense of ethics. Typical Yoon zoomer mate.

  119. Legerwood says:

    O/T

    Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Labour Shadow Chancellor has said Labour will back the Tories plans to raise the 40p tax threshold for Higher earners.

    He also seems to think the plans for infrastructure spending being trailed ahead of the Autumn statement are a gimmick.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/taxation/news/80949/john-mcdonnell-reveals-labour-will-back-tax-cut-higher-earners

  120. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    I put a couple of replies into the last thread about David Walker’s – excellent – article, where basically he asserts that the Treaty of Union is superior to the Acts of Union.

  121. Orri says:

    You really can’t prove that the term Great Britain was loose enough to include Ireland by insisting that the definition of Dominion, which was far closer to Ireland’s status, be exact. More to the point Ireland had its own Parliament at the time the unified one for Great Britain was brought into being.

  122. CameronB Brodie says:

    Socrates McSporran,
    Remember and tell them the British state only allows them access to human rights, when it suites the ideology of British nationhood. A bit like Israel and the demise of the Palestinians, frankly.

    Unless the framework of international law that supports human rights provision is respected in it’s ENTIRETY, the protection it provides the individual becomes tenuous and unsustainable. Human rights and sustainability are INTRINSICALLY, INTERNALLY LINKED. The path of neo-liberalism rejects this linkage and can be expected to arrive at a state of authoritarian capitalism. A bit like contemporary China.

    Tell them social justice is unreachable without the respect of human rights.

    Ask them if they can be confident of what the future has in stall for their grandchildren’s children, without the protection of human rights.

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  123. Sinky says:

    The new document from Scottish government “Scotland A European Nation” released to-day can be downloaded here

    http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00510265.pdf

    A very good read on Scotland’s case to be a European nation.

  124. Chic McGregor says:

    Robert, galamcennalath

    I think it was only £20,000.

    It was Actually England which suffered the more recently with about 15 years of continual raiding and much damage of the Northern half of England by Bruce and his supporters before the English would agree to recognise Scotland’s sovereignty.

    5 years later they reneged on the Treaty and invaded Scotland again.

  125. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for December 2011 now over on O/T.

  126. Calum McKay says:

    Jim’ll sort Scotlamd out!

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    @Socrates MacSporran
    Perhaps try picking something they’re interested in, say coffee shops, and find an instance where they’re misreported by the news, to cast the seeds of doubt in their minds. Not a good example, but you know what I mean. I used Cameron for that for a time, maybe you could show how Theresa May is misreported – or Boris Johnson!

  128. frogesque says:

    @Sinky 5.56.

    Hmmm. . good read, fighting talk with diplomacy. Like it!

  129. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    22 November, 2016 at 5:02 pm
    Heedtracker

    I know it isn’t you – thirty minutes ago my website received a highly abusive letter from “Heedtracker [at] hotmail [dot] com”

    No its not me GB. Sorry about that though. Checked my sent folder, no sent email to your blog. You can get a hotmail account in seconds with any name though. Report it to hotmail. They’re pretty organised now, directly hotmail connecting with windows 10 too.

  130. liz says:

    Have got a feeling SNP politicos are getting fed up of the smears.

    That’s Joanna Cherry, Stuart Hosie and one other who’s name I’ve forgotten,thanking Wings for the Marky report on expenses.

    Hope they realise we need to fight back with facts

  131. heedtracker says:

    heedtracker says:
    22 November, 2016 at 6:44 pm
    Grouse Beater says:
    22 November, 2016 at 5:02 pm
    Heedtracker

    I know it isn’t you

    Its probably JK Rowling GB. She’s not the type to tolerate any impudence from anyone.

  132. CameronB Brodie says:

    Fergus Green
    The European Central Bank is designed to be above the influence of national government policy agendas. It opposes self-determination (see Greece). That might provide a solid base for banking plutocrats but it leaves little space for a pro-active social policy implemented to meet local requirement. IMHO, the Euro is a step too far towards European integration as a neo-liberal, pan-national, super state. It is insensitive to the differential speeds that European economies operate at and has been ‘gamed’ by Germany fiddling with internal interest rates.

    I see the initial pace of the development that independence can be expected to bring to Scotland, might be slowed by the strength of our perto-currency. This probably isn’t insurmountable and might actually provide a welcome injection of sanity to cure the delirium of casino banking.

    Then there’s all the rubbish renewable energy and water that we’re saddled with. Bummer.

  133. Bob Mack says:

    @Liz,

    Yes I believe the SNP are showing a bit more attack. Someone on twitter is attacking Markys’ figures as being inaccurate because he forgot about something or other.which amounts to £147,000
    He /she is possibly right, but in the event they would both be wrong.

    What they have forgotten is that these Labour MP’S received a severance amount of £33,000 each courtesy of the tax payer. That more than covers the disputed amount.

    By the time of the next election that goes down to £15,000.

  134. Valerie says:

    @Liz

    Saw the Joanna Cherry tweet thanking for the expenses article, but also very valid poster commented SNP need to rebut better, and not leave it to bloggers! That got a lot of likes.

    Just had one of those yoonfest blocking sessions.

    I don’t get abusive, until they dish it out. The routine is, you say ‘GERS is shown to be deficient’. The one person you spoke to then rubbishes you as deluded, and starts tagging in yoons from all over the country, who join in the mud slinging.

    One seemingly reasonable guy kept asking questions, so I linked a recent Business for Scotland article, that’s when he lost his civility.

    So in their world, Business for Scotland are a sizeable bunch of business folk all colluding to lose business.

    There is NO mileage, NO point in trying to convert on social media, the genuine converts announce they have changed their mind, and I have seen a decent number of those.

    Every so often you come across a good insight into how the 27 in EU see us, and this is a good, but scary piece.

    I still think there will be dirty Brexit. Talks break down, and UK has to default to WTO regulations. If you think about it, the Tories might view this as ripping off the plaster.

    The only thing that will protect Scotland, will be the hold up or ruling by courts, that Scotland has to agree, or UK parliament being difficult.

    Worth reading.

    http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/brussels-prepares-hard-brexit

  135. liz says:

    @Bob Mack -that would be why the SNP need someone to work on the rebuttals.
    Marky did a great job,it’s so diifficult to follow all the information, it would need proof read.

    @Valerie – I know what you mean re twitter but the problem is the BBC & media pick up this info and run with it.

    We need factual info to post up to stop the lies developing.
    It’s the soft No/yes that we need to make sure we don’t lose.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    @MJS Dundee says: 22 November, 2016 at 4:22 pm:

    “I fear it is too closely associated with them and too much trouble to prise it away from them/rescue it. A clean start seems wisest to me. “

    I think you may not quite have understood the implications of what I’m saying, MJS.

    By declaring the Scottish currency, “The Scottish Pound Sterling”, and NOT tying it to the English Pound Sterling we immediately force Westminster’s hand. They have no choice but call theirs something else and they have only two choices which both suit Scotland fine.

    They can call their something other than the pound Sterling or their most reasonable choice is to call theirs, “The English Pound Sterling”, otherwise they lose the right to retain the pound as the English Kingdom’s currency and their secondary problem is they need to drop claiming to still be the United Kingdom. (r), or not. Because the UK’s currency could equally be claimed by their only kingdom partner in the Union.

    They now need to retain their identity as the Kingdom of England. Then they have to face the problem, that as Scotland has NOT tied the Scottish currency to the English currency, the Scottish pound’s external value can float up or down in relation to the English pound and the Scottish economy is going to be largely based upon the relative price of oil, gas and Electricity while that of England will most likely be based upon the services industries including mainly financial.

    Now believe me those spivs in the City of London have no loyalty to anything other than their bank accounts. If the Scots pound goes a 0.5% up on the English pound they will deal in it. Furthermore if the Scots offer them a tiny bit less to pay in tax they will be in Scotland before the next dawn looking for a nice big country residence to buy.

    First up there will be an almost instant deductive effect upon the English cost of electric power as they presently rob Scotland via the National Electricity grid with their grid connection policies that charge the generation companies more for each kilowatt of power they add to the grid depending upon their distance from London and subsidise those closer to London for every kilowatt they add to the grid.

    They will have to not only pay the going rate but will need to pay as much as the Scots can screw out of them and a short period of the lights going out is a great bargaining tool.

    Then we have the natural greed of those who trade in commodities including the relative price of international trading currencies. As the Scottish pound is backed by an oil, gas and power economy there will be a very likely rise in the value of the Scottish pound against the English pound. This is a double edged sword for Scotland for it makes out imports dearer to buy but we get that back as out exports gain us more.

    Then we have the topic touched upon here on Wings a couple of days ago. The way our Scottish exports go out of the UK as UK exports instead of Scottish exports. That will have ground to a halt for every item that crosses the border will be an export from Scotland but also, from the England POV, be an import to England and, even under the present scam, Scotland is a net exporter and England is a net importer. The overall effect is that Scotland’s economy gets healthier while England’s gets worse. Remember too that Scotland has an undersea electricity link carrying electric power to Northern Ireland.

    There are other long term scams that have gone on for three hundred years too. The Scottish Crown Estates were taken away from Edinburgh in the late 1800’s and just rolled up with the English/Welsh/Irish crown estates. That money will go to the Scottish economy. Not to mention that such as ASDA/Tesco. et. al. who now pay the VAT tax that they gather on behalf of the UK government to the English Treasury will have to maintain a head office in Scotland and pay tax to a Scottish treasury or get to hell out of Scotland and they will not likely do that but even if they do there is now a retail opening for a Scottish company to replace them.

    Then there will also be a gain in office jobs. Not to mention they will need to engage a Scottish lawyer who knows Scottish law and a Scots accountant.

    Revenues from the garage forecourts and VAT gathered by them for the UK government will now go to a Scottish Treasury and all employees in Scotland with cross-border companies will be taxed in Scotland instead of in England.

    Now are you beginning to get the overall picture?

    We can keep the pound without tying it to the English pound and the English pound will be the loser and I’ve only scratched the surface. What of the tax earned on, Whisky, Gin and so on? Did you know that Scotland produces most of the UK’s Gin?

    M“Moreover, I’m wary of any period of our currency being tied to those who may be minded towards spiteful reactions.”

    We do not need to tie our currency to anyone or conversely we can tie it to whoever we please.

    Many of the threats made during ProjectFear#1 may have been hyperbole, but they have been made. We also have to expect many more during ProjectFear#3 (as it will be, re Brexit). I’m not sure we can take the chance that they will be all sweetness and light after an Indy Yes vote. Sooner we cut that cord the safer we are.

    They will, I’m certain, have a lot more on their minds at least for while a while, to keep them busy.

    So for that reason, rather than focus on the clear historical joint ownership of The Pound, I’d like a clean break for a bit. Temporary Euro-isation seems like the best bet.

    First of all, unless the EU makes Scotland the inheritor of the EU membership then we cannot join the Euro for at very least 2 to 3 years. Them’s the EU Rules.

    Furthermore it is a myth that member countries are forced to join the Euro. There are more than a few EU members who have not done so.

    Now it may well be that in due course we would want to call our new currency the Pound Sterling once again. That’s absolutely fine. But let’s have that break for a short while to avoid possible currency spite and to put ourselves into a position whereby our new currency is widely seen and recognised as not being connected to, or controlled by, Westminster!

    You have to be kidding! If you imagine that the World at large will not be aware of the situation almost before we do you can forget it. Not only that but the UK has more than enough enemies they have offended than they have friends.

    Believe me the new Kingdom of England will be in such a state in a very short time they will have more than enough on their plates to keep them busy for years. Come to that they are in a fairly dire place as it is and they are dragging us down with them.

    As I pointed out to you and the figures, the real ones, bear me out. Scotland in spite of being robbed blind are already a net exporter and England, Wales and N.I, are net importers. Not only that, by looking at our natural resources, and they are way out of all proportion to other European countries, we have little to worry about.

    Believe it or not Scotland has 25% of Europe’s potential wind power for generating electricity. We are also unique in that we have the warm Gulf Stream running round our coastline and that warm stream has a cold equivalent that runs across the Atlantic in the opposite direction and both can be used to drive turbines. We also have many firths that have fast flowing rivers running down them to the sea and each one can drive turbines as can the firths be harnessed to use tide flow for turbines.

    Scotland, really has nothing to fear as far as her future is concerned. You must understand I’ve been studying these things since I was a wee boy and I’m now an octogenarian. Lots of time to learn things.

    Here’s a wee true story for you. During my apprenticeship we had many lectures and this was one way back in the early 1950s. Now back then the MOD did not employ or use outside produced electronics equipment. Wartime secrecy was still in force and thus we were the cutting edge in electronics and electro-mechanics.

    In one lecture that stuck in my mind we discussed the situation that is happening right now. Bear in mind that in 1950 most people had no idea what electronics or computers were. Many were lucky to even have a decent mains radio and TV was not yet broadcast in Scotland.

    The debate was an]bout the effect that electronics would have on the World. The end of that debate was that eventually there would be no need for much of the office work, retail work and even hard graft by humans.

    Now tell me what has been spoken about in government circles all over the World and the debate about cars that drive themselves?

  137. heedtracker says:

    BBC Politics
    2 hrs ·
    Donald Trump urges Nigel Farage to campaign against wind farms in Scotland because he believes they “sully” the country’s beauty.

    and

    Guy Verhofstadt
    29 mins ·
    One clown in Washington is more than enough. Watch my entire speech during today’s plenary.”

    Verhofstadt’s going easy on planet UKOK toryboy here though. BBC r4 tory gimps are going very very right now and Brexity.

    Eddie Mair’s not had MacT on his PM show yet, well he probably has, but he’s giving massive air time to dudes like UKIPers Raheem Kassam, as in this evening’s show where Kassam was able to rave away about what a wonder Farage really is. Its creepy as fuck alongside Trump misogyny.

    Independent said,

    “Formerly Farage’s special adviser and now Breitbart’s “London editor”, he tweeted this about someone who has talked with sadness about fertility problems: “Can someone just, like … tape Nicola Sturgeon’s mouth shut? And her legs, so she can’t reproduce.” He gallantly describes Ukip leadership rival Suzanne Evans as “a wrinkly old ginger bird”.

    BBC r4 PM show’s got 7+ million listeners. Eddie Mair treats this guy like he’s not a misogynist scumbag and he is head of Breitbart news England branch. Eddie had another toryboy hack in the US desperately groveling to the Trump machine, which isnt pretty to listen to either.

    Only Tuesday though, on planet toryboy at the BBC.

  138. Gaelstorm says:

    Odds are very short. Don’t know what they were before Mctearfart’s prognostic at ion though.

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 22 November, 2016 at 5:23 pm:

    “@Robert Peffers
    I put a couple of replies into the last thread about David Walker’s – excellent – article, where basically he asserts that the Treaty of Union is superior to the Acts of Union.”

    He may be right. However I’ve studied all three of them.

    That is the Treaty of Union and both the English Parliament’s and Scottish Parliament’s Acts of Union and to the best of my knowledge I have to say the Acts are virtually word for word textually identical to that in the treaty of Union.

    Furthermore there have been very few actual changes or amendments to the acts over the years.

    Tell you what – here’s a link to the Scottish version.

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/heritage/articlesofunion.pdf

    You will note the references to the Dominions thereof and to The Plantations. Bear in mind these refer to the British Dominions of the Kingdom of England. That is the Dominions IN Britain as this is the Act of Union and nothing to do with the British Empire that was to follow. I thus took the references to mean at least Ireland and only perhaps Wales as Wales was actually an English Principality and it still is.

    Which is why the Welsh flag is not depicted on the Butchers Apron. There is also references to, “Plantations”, that DO NOT refer to trees or crops but the plantation of settlers in Ireland on land that belonged to native born people of Ireland by those from England, Wales and Scotland. Basically these were the implantation of Protestant settlers in the Roman Catholic Ireland and we all know of the long lasting sectarianism still causing problems in Scotland to this very day.

    You can study that at your leisure. To the best of my knowledge the text of the Treaty and the Acts is virtually identical. In fact, though, the two acts must surely supersede the Treaty being not only passed by the two parliaments but passed into law by the then Monarchy of both partner Kingdoms. Who by the acts became then the joint monarch of the United Kingdom for the first time, There was no Union of the crows in 1603.

  140. Chess man. says:

    In ref to the ‘Reporting Scot’ report/demand that ScotGvt urgently review Midwifery. I vaguely remember a radio ‘call-in’ 2002 by a graduate Midwfry student at Dundee Univ. She told listeners that out of that years class of 10 graduates, only she was staying in Scotland! About five were migrating to Canada/USA; West Europe and Austr/NewZ four. When ‘callKaye’ radio host asked her why, she said there were only 3 full-time placements for the coming year and the Pay and Conditions were terrible! (Go read “Nursing Times” 11th Nov’13)

  141. defo says:

    Robert P
    “There was no Union of the crows in 1603.”
    That would have been a murder. 🙂
    Coat…

  142. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Crows are clever burdies though. I once watched one, in the grounds of Ninewells Hospital, tear bits off a discarded roll, then hide them adjacent to a tree stump, covering each bit with clumps of sod. Must have been one of them thaar rare squirrel crows…

  143. Thepnr says:

    @brewsed

    Regarding your first link, I have a hunch that this is the way the Scottish government is now seriously looking at. That is membership of EFTA and automatically the EEA.

    Quite a lot has been written on this in the last few days and even today Alex Salmond was talking of the same. My view is that this is definitely a route worth investigating. It maintains the “four freedoms” of the EU, single market, free movement ect.

    Crucially though it gets rid of the bogie man of “Yeh hiv tae join the Euro”. What would the Yoons have to shout about then?

    Like Independence, we could wait and see how things turn out in the EEA than give the electorate a vote on whether or not to go for full membership or withdraw altogether.

    I think we are heading in this direction as a stepping stone to Scotland remaining in the “single market” hence less from the SG about remaining in the EU. They are two different things of course.

  144. Fred says:

    @ Craig, wonder if the Seer Pishtradamus has heard tell of his new moniker yet?

  145. defo says:

    Fred
    You can be sure of it. Our dear leader took it up instantly, and # him in a tweet.
    Brian Doonthetoon
    I had a wee buddy who would fly down and wait for me at lunchtime on a site years ago. I swear you could almost see its mind working. Very curious things, even when scran isn’t involved.

  146. scottieDog says:

    @Thepnr
    I think the EEA is probably the way to go. One of the most stupid stipulations to come from the EU is the stability growth pact.

    It was put together by a bunch of politicians who didn’t understand macro economics and if they continue to try to enforce it then I believe we will see the end of the common currency.

    Scotland’s best bet by far is to have an icelandic type relationship with the EU.

  147. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr / @scottieDog
    I agree. Scotland would still have to be accepted by the EU-27 as well as by EFTA, as they’re all part of the EEA, but it would be easier for them to do so. It also goes towards the YES voters who voted Leave – apparently 30% of them. Then moving toeards EU membership, yet another reerendum, and full accession – if that’s the way to go. Scotland is a good size to compare for Norway, not too big, but helping to share costs and probably reduce their cost of EFTA membership. The (r)UK is just too big for EFTA.

    SGP – quite a lot of murmurs in the EU about that, at the very least it’s going to get modified I think in the next few years. Reasonable idea, too rigid and not responsive enough to a constantly changing world economy.

  148. heedtracker says:

    Tory fcuk wit that told Scotland faced space threats, unless and without toryboy protection, currently getting an amazing hagiography from BBC Newsnight right the noo. And its an ex rancid The Graun ligger doing the fluffing too.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/keep-watching-the-skies/

  149. Thepnr says:

    @scottieDog

    I’ve never looked at or thought about Scotland keeping the four freedoms through membership of EFTA nad have only started reading about it tonight really.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but to become a member of EFTA then I believe we only require agreement between the existing members. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein?

    If this is correct then it also gets rid of the ludicrous claim that “Spain will veto membership”. It would no longer matter. It’s seems plausible to me that even before a second Independence referendum there is every chance that EFTA would say “sure, Scotland will be welcome as an Independent country”.

    They could do that as it has nothing to do with UK negotiations with the EU over Brexit. Pretty sure Norway and Iceland would support us, Lichtenstein, not so sure though they would probably be looking at what’s in it for them regarding financial services and it could be quite a lot.

    Tell you what though I’d take this is a minute if it meant Independence.

  150. Grouse Beater says:

    Valerie “The routine is, you say ‘GERS is shown to be deficient’. The one person you spoke to then rubbishes you as deluded, and starts tagging in yoons from all over the country, who join in the mud slinging.”

    I got that one tossed at me today. You may be interested to see how I dealt with it and silenced the tormentor.

    Go to my Twitter account. You don’t have far to scroll down.

    Enjoy 🙂

  151. scottieDog says:

    @Thepnr/yesindyref
    I’m not sure what the entry requirements would be. I do know however that Scotland would and should run the deficit it needs to stimulate it’s economy. Iceland has done exactly that on the aftermath of the banking crisis and it had been transformative.

    We can’t be dictated to by other nations on how to kick start our depressed economy.
    This also kicks ghe legs out from under the unionists who say our deficit would be too high for EU membership. If that’s the case I say great!

  152. Chic McGregor says:

    As I suggested last year, an even smaller baby step might be that Scotland might be able to join the Nordic Council as an observer status member or even associate member whether we leave the UK or not.

    As I pointed out there are already non national autonomous regions which are members. At that point, you may recall, I wasn’t sure if Scotland would qualify because the regional members like Greenland, The Faroes, Aalland Islands were still attached to some extent to full member countries.

    However, I note that Schleswig Holstein joined as on observer status member this year. It of course, is a German, i.e. non Scandanavian, federal state, so I do not now see why that might not be possible.

    Of course Westminster would not be best pleased but there must be reasons for not joining as well.

    With impending indy, I wouldn’t expect this to be very high up the SGs priority list, but if the worst came to the worst and we remain in the UK…?

  153. galamcennalath says:

    EEA EFTA

    IMO this is an option for an Indy Scotland, especially if England is out if the EU with poor trading relations. It would allow Scotland to trade freely with both.

    As for still being in the UK and in EEA EFTA, no chance. WM wouldn’t allow Scotland to prosper while they went down the tubes,

    We need to be independent, to act independently.

  154. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker: “Its probably JK Rowling GB. She’s not the type to tolerate any impudence from anyone.”

    Oddly enough, it was 100% connected to my condemnation of her political behaviour. But I have the IP address.

  155. galamcennalath says:

    I get pissed off by the msm’s dismissive language.

    “Leader of the SNP” No one calls May “leader of the Tories”, she is the Prime Minister and Nicola is First Minister of Scotland.

    Or

    “Sturgeon’s government”, no they are the Scottish Government.

    Or

    “Sturgeon’s minister”, no they are Scottish Government Ministers.

    And so on. Pathetic small minded behaviour.

  156. Chic McGregor says:

    Thepnr
    “here is every chance that EFTA would say “sure, Scotland will be welcome as an Independent country”.”

    IIRCC they already said that during indyref1.

    I remember urging the SNP Government to use that offer to create a deadline for the EU to say whether we would get membership. As you will recall, the EU were refusing to say at the time.

  157. Thepnr says:

    @galamcennalath

    Totally agree, we would have to be Independent first whether it’s the EEA EFTA route or full EU membership.

    No option at all exists if we remain in the UK though, we are OUT along with them. I believe it will be easier to obtain a statement from EFTA as to Scottish membership than it would from the EU prior to a referendum, that would greatly help our case.

    No argument about joining the Euro. (which kills McTernans view)
    No argument about a Spanish veto.
    No argument about the deficit.

    Three birds killed with one stone. Job done! Nearly.

  158. Thepnr says:

    @Chic McGregor

    Sorry Chic I can’t remember though no doubt you did. I think things are maybe starting to come together.

    We could be trying to head them off at the pass before things even get started. I’m all for that.

  159. yesindyref2 says:

    @scottieDog
    Yes, I got it a little wrong. Switzerland is a member of EFTA but not the EEA as it has its own bilateral agreement with the EU. Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are all members of the EEA.

    To join EFTA would need the agreement of the 4 EFTA members, but to join the EEA would then need the agreement of the other 27 EEA members, as well as the 4 EFTA members.

  160. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:

    Rowling’s extraordinarily petty online, twitter wise. It reeks of that awful how dare you and know your place you Scottish etc etc. And you can out write her all day long. It’s a double whammy that is going to wind up someone in Rowling Towers:D

  161. Thepnr says:

    @yesindyref2

    Cheers. One hurdle at a time though eh 🙂

  162. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “We already have our own currency – the Pound Sterling, it is not the English pound sterling it is the United Kingdom Pound Sterling”

    Yes, we do. A currency which is treated as “foreign” currency in the UK’s only other Kingdom, and widely refused in businesses, including on public transport.

    A currency we have to exchange for English notes before travelling to that “foreign” country, I mean Kingdom.

  163. ian murray says:

    In Canada we use the dollar and our geographical neighbour uses the dollar It is the same difference.The notes are different just as the two pounds are.
    If you take Scottish pounds to the exchange you get less than a pound for them (That will change when the big day arrives)
    In Canada there is lots of cross border shopping and shops will always give a better exchange rate, which is always clearly posted (they want the business and are happy to take a small loss to get Canadian business.
    Coins are considered at par in both countries and in Canada we have phased the physical penny out of circulation.It still exists on cheques and for accounting purposes but if a coffee costs $2.02 you only pay $2 if it is a cash transaction If the coffee is $2.03 or $2.04 you pay $2.05 cash.If it is a debit or credit card purchase you pay the exact amount.
    The cost of keeping the penny was prohibitive.
    No reason why they both can’t be called the pound
    I would suggest the the Scottish pound will be worth more than the English pound

  164. Dr Jim says:

    I’ve gazed into the crystal ball (a better one then McTernans) and now that we know Trump is lining up a shitload of white supremacists for the US Government and already strarting to “dictate” who will or wont be Ambassadors to his regime, if the UK Government gives in in any way to any kind of Farage appointment to anything, then the games a bogey

    The next demand will surely be the removal of the Scottish Government before he agrees to a trade deal because this guy is a vindictive nutter and if I had any money I’d bet he’s going to try blackmail on the UK and the thing is they might go for it because they’re shit scared of Trump and they’re desperate AND it would relieve the UK of the worry of Indyref2 they might think

    So the SNP will need to get their skates on with this one and get their retaliation in first
    I see the mood in Scotland changing by the hour, more and more folk are switching on to how dangerous Trump is becoming and they don’t like it and now that McTernan has confirmed we’ll lose, that looks like a big win for Inyref2

    I don’t forsee soft No voters anymore,I see let’s get the shit out of this mess voters and let’s do it quick

    60%+ WIN for an Independent Scotland I’ve got my money ready

  165. Still Positive. says:

    Dr Jim @ 111.42

    I think it might be close to 70%.

  166. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m just going to drop this one in, via a “Beyond Brexit” article by David Leask. Not by thwe way, reported anywhere else as far as I can see. The more things go, the more I get totally confused. What’s going on?

    http://www.cepolicy.org/sites/cepolicy.org/files/attachments/giri_report_1.pdf

    e.g. ” Similarly, when Scotland created its “Crime Campus”, six agencies co-located, collaborated and coordinated their intelligence, resources and training which led to significant improvements across Scotland. Very soon the number of agencies grew to 16 as those outside the “club” saw the obvious benefits of joining; individually they were good but collectively they were even more effective. “

    and “At the national level, another successful CT hub has been Scotland’s Strategic Multi-Agency Response Team (SMART).”

    Singled out in the report as examples of good practice to be copied. And worth reading what Leask has to say about it:

    http://archive.is/9imYB

    Bearing in mind that one of the apparent problems for iScotland was highlighted as our lack of access to 5 eyes, and we’d be doomed to be invaded by every terrorist under the sun, no security, no intelligence, deaf and blind!

  167. Tam Jardine says:

    Siobhan in the Express has outdone herself tonight- I found myself wondering if they always make up quotations in the headlines? It is incredible really- and the poor idiots btl all eat it up and make the same offensive, predictable remarks they make on every article about Scotland.

    https://archive.is/jTemg

    Aside from all the basic errors an editor would spot, the headline is:

    ‘You’ve got NO IDEA’ Frustrated Sturgeon BLASTS clueless May in furious Brexit rant.

    A few lines later you get the actual quote:

    “I don’t think (the UK government) yet has a clear idea, or perhaps any idea of what it wants to achieve through Brexit negotiations. There are some very basic questions that are yet to be answered, for example, does the UK want to try to stay within the single market even as it leaves the European Union. So, it’s very frustrating.”

    And that is it! They won’t let me write “pish” in the comments but I can write it here: pure pish! That reasoned statement becomes a “rant” and a Sturgeon, unhinged and mad as hell is BLASTING away.

    I would write to IPSO about it except the chances of the media remora upholding a complaint on an anti-Nicola Sturgeon article are as slim as Tian Tian and Yang Guang being wiped out by an asteroid whilst getting down to some hard panda lovin

  168. Meg merrilees says:

    I think Nicola has played this just right.
    She announced that all EU persons working /resident in Scotland were welcome on June 24th; then went to Europe almost immediately amid some mockery, to speak with ‘junior ‘ ministers and explain that Scotland IS a very different place from England and as a nation we wanted to remain.

    She spoke with Juncker and he was most impressed and I’m pretty sure she spoke with Guy Verhofstadt and look how important he is in the game of things now.

    Then, puzzlingly we heard that she was in Iceland … now we understand why!

    Lots of good, solid groundwork gone in over the past few months meanwhile Kezia complains about trains and Ruth waffles on about how Nicola’s not doing her job properly. The media try daily to tarnish things but only succeed in tarnishing themselves and that is becoming increasingly obvious.

    Thank goodness neither of them is First Minister or we would be sliding off the cliff face with TM et all!

  169. Chic McGregor says:

    Apologies.
    I just found out, on Snopes, that the 10.5 million Canadian US immigration application to Canada claim doing the rounds on the internet was a hoax.

    Sorry, donkey’s ears for me.

  170. Cactus says:

    Hey-hey, it’s Ludovico day 🙂

    Did you hear there’s talk of Kwik-Fit in Uddingston (Glasgow), shedding 100’s of jobs and closing, by the end of March next year..

    Hopefully we don’t hear of other Scottish based businesses following suit.

    *Article 50 could be given the go ahead at ANY TIME, but, by the end of March next year. That’s the given upper limit marker point, thereafter that..

    One way or another, the 1st of April of 2017 is gonna take on a whole new meaning.

  171. Paula Rose says:

    Anyone got the latest Grousebeater take on this?

  172. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Once, on the morning after the Brexit referendum, it became clear that Scotland and England were on different paths as regards Europe, I thought – we shoud have EFTA membership as a back-up plan.

    Glad to see the SG now appears to be going down this road. Even if they wanted to, England or even the existing UK, would never get into EFTA – too big a market, they would swamp the other four members.

    An Independent Scotland, however, would be a good fit. The more I think about it, the more-certain I am, this is the path down which we should be travelling.

    I also like the idea, suggested above, about Scotland, even now, pre-Independence, getting observer status with the Nordic Council. We ought to be getting closer to our friends across the North Sea.

  173. Breeks says:

    OT Trump disavows the Alt-Right Nazi salutes, back tracks on the Mexican wall and jailing Clinton, and the Alt-Right white supremacists are confused and about to get angry.

    Trump has offended liberal American by entertaining racist all-white right, and now offends racist right by publicly disavowing them.

    Strikes me that’s a dangerous game to play in America Mr Trump.

    I detect a power struggle at the Whitehouse with Mr Trump on a steep learning curve, with a crash course on getting genies back into their bottles, and that isn’t going to please the Klan, nor sound very convincing for the liberals.

    This might yet be a very short US presidency.

  174. Al Dossary says:

    The Pound Scots or the Pound English – who cares? Whatever is used ultimately will be traded freely, and accepted widely once it is decided upon. That the Scots pound would be anything but a strong currency is I think beyond dispute. What we do need to do however is convince the “don’t knows” that our choice is viable. The GBP still has a ways to go before it has bottomed out in the international currency markets in the event of a hard brexit, so that should be in our favour at least.

    Saturday my plan is to cross the causeway to Bahrain, in search of something sufficiently close to a Christmas tree to keep my wife happy, yet sufficiently distinct so as not to see Saudi customs confiscate it on the way back home to Saudi.

    Currency – the Saudi Riyal is pegged at the rate of 3.75 SAR to the $ US. The Bahraini Dinar is pegged to the $ US at the rate of 0.375 BHD to the $. The short and simple of this is that both currencies are freely interchangeable at their respective rates.

    If I pay in SAR for a full Irish breakfast with a Guinness or 3 in Brennigans, my change comes back as a mixture of SAR and BHD, every time.

    I have no doubt that in the early days, if the Pound Scots were to be pegged to the pound English, then they each would be mutually exchangeable (at least in Scotland). Our english cousins no doubt would continue their “no Scottish currency” stance in a lot of places, but equally many years back I had an issue in my local boozer trying to use a Manx twenty so we as a nation are a little guilty of it too.

  175. Ken500 says:

    Trump knows that Clinton won the vote. Trump is being pragmatic. He has less of a majority. A 1% minority.

    People listen to what the Press (liars) say he says. Not to what Trump actually says. Trump has been saying for years the invasion of Iraq was wrong. That there should not be illegal invasions. That politicians are totally corrupt, The US politicians should be concentrating on improving the American (world) economy. Supporting jobs and prosperity. Not supporting the crooked bankers and the crooked political influence on the banks system. Trump has been saying that for years.

    Trump has been more honest than the crooked politicians, Trump has been telling the truth and calling out the corrupt political and banking system. The relationship with Russia vie the terrorism illegal wars near Russian borders. The migration criss in Europe caused by US/UK and French politicians, The MSM has constantly called out and derided Trump’s position because he wants to call them and the Press backers to account. Obama/Clinton are warmongering, fraudster killers. They have not adequently improved the US economy. They have made people’s live more difficult, worldwide.

    Clinton/Obama are a couple of crooks. Destroying the world economy. Embezzling public money and breaking the Law, it is true what Trump is saying about them. Trump has a brash way of speaking. He calls a spade a spade. What you see is what you get. Like it or leave it. Trump gave a direct simple message (for simple folk).but he wasn’t wrong in his observations.

    Scotland is deprives more revenues and energy from wind turbines than any Golf Development. The two are not mutually exclusive. Trump uses them as an excuse for lack of Golf Development. When Scottish planning, a handful of misleading protestors and lack of enough investment are the reason. Trump jnr said the wind turbines were not a problem. They can hardly be seen in any case. A false herring. Look there’s a squirrel.

    Trump has invested £Millions in Scotland. it would take £Billion to finish off the Development and build 500 houses. That were allowed to mitigate the cost of the Development. Trump did stand to make £Millions from the project. The area would have a total prestigious high value asset. A Development bringing economic benefits. Supported by the majority in the public interest. .

    The Scottish Planning Laws are designed to prevent a Developer building houses, not keeping to their comitment and running away. Trump should not have fallen out with Alex Salmond the (former MSP) MP for the area. Alex Salmond could have helped bring or guarantee the investment for a successfully completed Development. The Greenq/Unionist liars have wasted £Million/Billions of public money. Committing criminal offence, breaking data Laws, the councillor code of conduct, breaching ethics and impartial confidential Rules. Then briefing the Press with lies. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

  176. Ken500 says:

    The Green vote let Trump in.

    Brilliant links Nana, thanks

  177. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Mornin’ Nana. That’s a right old breakfast menu you’ve laid out there. 🙂

    Don’t know where to start first. 😀

  178. Nana says:

    Good morning Ken500

    @Macart

    Lots to chew over right now including this one

    http://archive.is/nETvi

    and this one http://archive.is/HXQYN

    Folks are getting really good at finding and posting links, pretty soon mine won’t be needed.

  179. Macart says:

    @ Nana

    O’Leary doesn’t mince his words at the best of times Nana, but he’s certainly pulled no punches with that opinion. The Verhofstadt piece was also pretty clear. The EU will protect its charter and the red line is the four freedoms. Hard Brexit it is then.

    Two more interesting links in the LBC piece and the Q link is a bit of an eye opener too.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Thank you for the breakfast news links Nana! You should be an professional editor but its interesting how BBC in particular does the exact same thing but always with pro tory rags only, like the Herald’s front page Project Fear 2 attempt today. Although to be fair, there is no anti tory rags ofcourse.

    Also, Independent says,

    “Michael O’Leary also claimed that Ryanair is “Europe’s cleanest, greenest airline”, though he added the view that “Climate change is completely bloody bogus.”

    Just because he’s a fantastic business man doesn’t mean he’s not insane.

  181. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Re Donald Trump.

    I recall, and I cannot for the life of me remember in which paper it appeared, somehow the Sunday Times comes to mind – reading a piece on Trump golf developments.

    This was way back, when Mennie was first being mooted, before he even had planning permission. Basically, the writer of the piece had looked at two or three Trump developments in the USA, and he found, where there was local opposition, the Trump organisation had always tried to find common ground and a way round problems.

    Certainy, they found not every problem had been solved, but, the Trump organisation had a better record than most in problem solving and overcoming opposition. The Trump guys found ways of getting the developments done, to the satisfaction of the locals.

    He’s a business man, he will make deals, and, he just might end the secret deals which sees the American military-industrial complex ripping-off the tax payer.

    This, of course, assumes the AMIC gives him more of a chance than they allegedly ever gave JFK.

  182. Sinky says:

    The Herald worth buying to-day for its Brexit articles and letters page including one from Dr Craig Dalyell from Common Weal demolishing David Torrance on GERS figures.

    Radio Scotland Morning Call about Wind Turbines. Thank goodness I have to go to work and miss yoon howling at the moon.

  183. davidb says:

    @ Nana ( and others )

    These frequent links suggest that a news consolidation site is a good idea. Sites like Drudge and Breitbart have very large readerships.

    Perhaps one of the clever people could consider setting up such a site. We need to make it easy to inform people without the yoon propaganda spin.

  184. Robert Peffers says:

    @Al Dossary says: 23 November, 2016 at 5:29 am:

    “The Pound Scots or the Pound English – who cares? Whatever is used ultimately will be traded freely, and accepted widely once it is decided upon.”

    Tosh! No one can trade in a currency unless it is a trading currency. It has to be placed on the currency market to be traded in.

    You will find some information about the currency markets of currency here :-

    http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/06/sevenfxfaqs.asp

    And here :-
    http://forexblue.website/2016/05/12/462/

    If the independent Scottish Government declare a Scottish pound as the currency of an independent Scotland the people of Scotland won’t see anything different within Scotland itself. It will only be seen as different in dealings with other, (foreign), countries.

    Then the individual deals being done between parties or individuals will have to decide what currency the payments will be made in. For example oil is generally bought and sold in USA Dollars and mainly prices are quoted on a basis of Dollars per Barrel.

    Anyway, I’m not an expert on currency but with things that I’m not expert in I usually- “know a man who is”, (‘cept sometimes it might also be a woman).

  185. Robert Peffers says:

    Here is a quick Google on which currencies are traded on the currency market.

    “Which currencies can be traded?

    Forex currency symbols consist of three letters. For example, USD stands for the US dollar, EUR for the Euro, and JPY for the Japanese Yen. Some currencies are also known under nicknames:
    •American dollar (USD) = Greenback
    •British pound (GBP) = Cable or Sterling
    •Swiss franc (CHF) = Swissy
    •Canadian dollar (CAD) = Loonie
    •Australian dollar (AUD) = Aussie
    •New Zealand dollar (NZD) = Kiwi

    The most popular currency pairs include the so-called majors (EUR/USD, USD/JPY, GBP/USD, USD/CHF) and commodity pairs (USD/CAD, AUD/USD, NZD/USD). Any other combination of these currencies (for example EUR/GBP or AUD/JPY) is called a currency cross.

  186. Ken500 says:

    There will have to be another EU Referendum. The last one will have to be declared null and void because of Farague’s prominent engagement. Farague is a crook. He has been illegally funding a Political Party with public money for years. Without which UIKP would not exist. Arron Banks is illegally laundering the embezzled money through his Offshore Accounts. (wiki leaks). The Tories have been protecting him from investigation. The only reason they wasn’t out of the EU is so they and their Associates can continue to embezzle public money and tax evade.

    There will have to be another Indy Ref. The Purdah rules were broken.The Unionists told a back of lies and illegally used public money. Donations were illegally received from outwith Scotland against electoral rules. Purdah rules were broken by the Press. Vows and promises were given, not honoured and reneged upon, The Unionists are taking £Billions out of Scotland and trying to destroy its economy. They are destroying the world economy, causing illegal wars, creating a a massive migration crisis and trying to illegally take Scotland out of the EU.

    There will have to be another GE. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 Constituencies. They are trying to illegally take the UK out of the EU, against the majority wishes. There is an unelected PM ruining the UK and world economy. Causing unhappiness, sickness homelessness and strife for millions of people. Betraying promises and starving vulnerable people to death. Committing crimes against humanity.

    If Scotland doesn”t vote for Independence soon to end this insanity. Scotland will never get out of this mess of an unelected UK Gov and their sycophant ‘psycho baststrds’ trying to bring Scotland down. So they can feather their greedy, lying, filthy, lazy complacent nests. While innocent, vulnerable people are dying. They have no compassion and no shame. Manipulative liars.

    Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Vote for Independence.

  187. galamcennalath says:

    davidb says:

    a news consolidation site

    A site linking to Scottish politics would be an excellent idea. A lot of work to keep it current and fresh.

    IMO it should be neutral and even include right wing BritNat dross from the Express or Telegraph. The contrast between their pathetic narrow output and the wider picture would be huge.

    Followers could make their own minds up where the truth might be, and that is always the best way for people to become informed. Working it out for yourself is far better than being preached at.

  188. Muscleguy says:

    At least you can’t accuse McTernan of lacking, apparent, conviction on his latest campaign, which is what stimulates these predictions. John doesn’t really believe them, he’s just electioneering.

    The tragedy is he can’t see that this is the problem. We are sick of people who will go to the wall for anything provided they see political advantage. Decry our entire policy going back decades? no problem, pass the placard.

    Deny it was ever your policy despite manifest evidence of it, nae bother, where’s the megaphone?

    Other than his undying devotion to Tony, it’s alright John, we are all broadminded now, but think about Cheri, you marriage breaker.

  189. One_Scot says:

    Is it just me, or has the National website turned into the HeraldScotland website?

  190. Ken500 says:

    @ The only reason UKIP/Tories etc want out of the EU is so they continue to tax evade. The EU is clamping down on inter nation, international tax evasion. One of the reasons for Trade agreements is to stop it and end unfair competition.

    They really have excelled themselves at ruining the world economy. ‘Pycho Bastards’.

  191. heedtracker says:

    A news consolidation site

    England’s got one. Says UK but there’s nothing beyond Hadrians Wall. Total BBC black out on anything SNP is a bit freaky though. Does mass BBC pretending there’s no third party in Westminster now, make a difference to SNP polls? Don’t read all about it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-38073557

  192. Jomry says:

    david b and others

    News consolidation site

    I find one of the most useful features of visiting this comments section is the publication of links by Nana and others, especially when they are prefaced by a few words of summary to give a clue to content – where the text of the URL does not provide this. A news consolidation site incorporating these would be a useful addition – particularly for people who do not visit Wings.

    I find the layout and format of Peter Bell’s Scoop-it site http://www.scoop.it/t/politics-scotland attractive and easy to scan. He also publishes MSM articles with his own comments.

  193. heedtracker says:

    They really have excelled themselves at ruining the world economy. ‘Pycho Bastards’.

    Dedicated neo nazi’s in action in the news,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38057036

    The DUP has denied a claim from a multi-millionaire who poured millions of pounds into the campaign for the UK to leave the EU that they demanded money to back him.

    Arron Banks, who funded the Leave-EU campaign, made the allegations in a new book called ‘The Bad Boys of Brexit’.
    The party called the claims “entirely false”.
    He claimed the DUP asked for £30,000 a month over four months to back his Leave.EU campaign.

    He alleged he told the DUP they must be “joking” and said he made it clear “that’s not the way we operate.”

    Heil Trump! Its probably not interesting to note that the neo nazi’s out there have such fertile hate, bigot, xenophobic ground in the US and teamGB.

    Last night BBC Newsnight toryboy creeps had an ex Wall Street banker on tour of the US Trump lands and the overall BBC toryboy message was, “maybe they are gun toting racists and bigots, but you have to understand why though, its such a shame, they’re lovely really you know.”

  194. heedtracker says:

    Don’t Heil Trump:-(

    “Trump disavows the white nationalist ‘alt-right’ but defends Steve Bannon hire

    Speaking with New York Times journalists the president-elect said he wouldn’t have hired Bannon if he thought he was racist or part of ‘alt-right’ movement”

    Rancid The Graun says. Get the fascists to vote for you, then disavow them. They’ll all be getting knighted and stuck in the Lords here.

    Arise Lord Farage. Only in teamGB.

  195. Jomry says:

    rebuttal site

    Wa suggesting on a previous thread that SG/SNP should set up a rebuttal / myth busting site – or section- to provide immediate counter-narrative to MSM disinformation – especially on the items fuelled by repetion in BBC – something along the lines of the forensic and evidence based Euro myths blog https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/ .

    Had not visited SNP updates site for a while since I felt it was slow to react to current issues. However, it has produced a very swift and informative fact sheet on the trains fiasco which would be useful to anyone involved in discussions re Scotrail etc.

    This article, along with articles like the previous Wings article on expenses, would be immediate inclusions in a news consolidation site, were one to be set up, giving both hopefully wider currency.

  196. Bob Mack says:

    Really good editorial piece by Sam Kylie on the Sky Web news site about journalists.

    I wish I could post the link but cannot. Worth a read.

  197. Nana says:

    @davidb

    “A news consolidation site is a good idea”

    Indeed. Now to find someone or a group of folk willing to set it up.

    Perhaps even a new page on Wings specifically for links.

  198. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T.

    Who said fine investigative journalism was dead?

    Here is a fine piece of BBC investigation in regard to Scottish politicians at Westminster.

    I kid you not.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38051933

    Pity the BEEB reserve their fine investigative journalism on utter idiocy and nonsense yet fail to even report the actual great political work of the Scottish Members of the Commons.

  199. Soutron says:

    EFTA membership has always been my ideal scenario for an iScotland.

    Clearly it would solve a few of the unionists’ favourite problems – Currency, Spain’s veto etc. It’s not that I’m anti-EU, I’m totally on board with the concept but unfortunately neoliberalism is now enshrined in EU law. Totally arbitrary deficit targets and rubbish about fiscal prudence are not something we should be pressured to subscribe to. EFTA avoids all that while keeping the benefits of EEA membership/free movement.

    Whatever deficit (or surplus even) is required to keep our economy ticking over while maintaining high employment and stable inflation is the correct one. My Iceland experience has me more convinced of that than ever. I’m sure we’d be a welcome member too.

    It could be the perfect sell to the public if we can get a green light pre-referendum 2 from the 4 EFTA members.

  200. Bob Mack says:

    @Nana,

    Thank you for posting Nana. You are a treasure.

    Seems some” hacks “are beginning to see the light after all.

  201. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    23 November, 2016 at 10:08 am
    O/T.

    Who said fine investigative journalism was dead?

    At the very least the BBC have actually mentioned the normally ghosted SNP MP’s. Lovely comments section, so better together with our chums in the south.

    237. Posted by TA24
    on
    22 Nov 2016 09:31
    The fact that someone from Glasgow describes Irn Bru as “sustenance” says it all about the issues with Scottish health. Another thing SNP are failing to improve while they spend all their time pushing against Brexit and for Independence.

  202. Dr Jim says:

    Radio Scotland has their phone in about who likes the SNP and who doesn’t, whoops sorry!… I mean who likes windfarms and who doesn’t
    Thing is about renewable energy as new technology comes along you renew the old stuff with no damage to the countryside, and probably smaller better windmills might take the older ones place, but the thing you can’t renew is a big lump of uranium or some such horrible stuff, you’ve got it for the next million flaming years and the only thing that might renew is death by a new kind of horribleness

    Or you could have coal, well we had that and folk are still dying with their lungs hanging out and there’s still slag heaps all over the place

    So the Donald Trump appreciation society had their wee say this morning and it shows just how much some folk in our country hate the SNP and the idea of self determination to the point of destroying the health welfare and economy of Scotland just to show loyalty to England as our rightful overlords

    We make jokes about them, we laugh at their stupidity, sometimes we get enraged by their nasty attitudes but one thing’s for sure all these Unionists have one thing in common, and maybe some of them don’t even realise it
    They hate their own country, they hate the people in it and they even hate each other and it’s difficult to find any redeeming features amongst the lot of them

    It’s a bad day at your country’s football match when a section of our society is supporting the opposing team so that Scotland can be shown it’s place, as if somehow the winning or losing of a sporting event determines the nature of your political ideals

    Sad….

  203. Jomry says:

    Nana – 10.07 -news consolidation

    I am sure that there are plenty people with the expertise to set up such a site, but the most serious challenge Would be their ability to keep such a site updated on a daily basis. Not sure whether it could be sustained on a purely voluntary basis.

    However, it strikes me that you yourself are already doing the hard time consuming research and identification work. As far as I know, Peter Bell manages his Scoop-it site himself. It would be interesting to know from him how much time and how much technical expertise it took him to set this up- and how much time it takes him on a daily basis to flow the links into the Scoop-it format. This might help to quantify what might be involved in moving forward to a dedicated links site/section, however modest.

  204. Fred says:

    @ Al Dossary, get a wee date palm!

    @ Defo, still goin aboot wi “Wee Gleds” on the coupon over Pishtradamus.

  205. defo says:

    In need of a right good laugh ?
    From the Revs twittery thing.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/watch-the-secret-campaign-video-better-together-didnt-want-y?utm_term=.qxOwnygKL#.abY9E8mMD

    Maggie Darling stopped this going out. Clever woman.

  206. Jomry says:

    Nana – news consolidation/links site

    One last thought. Would such a site be best set up as a section of Wings (as you suggested) or as a completely separate entity?

    I feel that as part of Wings, it would continue to be valuable and informative to Wings readers – as your links are at present – and might make them much easier to find in the one place. However, there are many people who never come near Wings, because they believe the press propaganda and will tell you it is “toxic” . A stand-alone consolidation site might, with the right marketing, draw in some of these people – and these are the people who might benefit most from exposure to some of the links you provide.

    I recognise that it is very easy to come forward with ideas about what “should” be done by others. However, these are issues to be considered, should anyone decide to run with such a baton.

  207. Chic McGregor says:

    Said it before. Personally I would welcome a ‘Nana’s Links’ side window on Wings.

    Have often missed Nana’s links when a thread is long and not much time to scan.

    Also, would make a great archival resource.

  208. HandandShrimp says:

    Good grief! No wonder they didn’t show that video. Project Fear overload!

    Wonder where Scotland was supposed to drift off to?

    Same Muppets are now saying “Oh Brexit, an opportunity”

  209. Breeks says:

    I don’t think the truth about Brexit is really out yet.

    Don’t you think it’s a truly extraordinary leap into the dark for the UK economy and all being laid at the feet of a mere handful refugees and immigrants? – And it is a handful by comparison with other countries.

    I smell a rat. Brexit happened because it was on somebody else’s agenda, and immigration was the farthest thing from their minds.

    My own theory is that the financial “establishment”; that “fine” body of men who juggle the figures so the UK isn’t eaten alive by its massive debts and crippling interest rates, had a vested interest in preventing Europe, through closer integration, getting to see the full house of cards from the inside.

    House prices in the South have risen 40 fold since 1970, making a large number of people millionaires on paper for the mere happenstance of being a property owner. They need not have lifted a finger in maintenance, nor invested in restoration just to see the property sky rocket in value. Add to the mix a thoroughly disreputable banking and mortgage sector being deregulated but left in charge of setting both interest rates and mortgages, and Britain, especially in the Home Counties has been left with a truly eye watering “overdraft” in the very real value of its property. Without the hype, UK property is worth a mere fraction of the money currently borrowed against it. Forget 2008, this is real trouble.

    40 years doing nothing but watching your house turn you into a millionaire is as much of a fairytale as anything ever written by the Brothers Grimm.

    With the National UK debt at around £1.6 trillion, and personal debt at a similar amount, that is real debt exceeding £3Trillion. Forgive the misogyny, but the Financiers in the U.K. are acting like the proverbial guilty housewife who has blown the family estate on the credit card, and is now doing all she can to intercept all correspondence from the bank to keep a lid on the problem until she can figure a way out of the mess. Tick tock, tick tock…

    Europe is currently seeking to revise how European Banks operate, and if you want to get to grips about the real motivation behind Brexit, then forget about immigrants, and you’ve guessed it, …follow the money.

    http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/EY_-_The_future_of_baking_in_Europe_-_January_2016/$FILE/EY-the-future-of-banking-in-europe-jan-2016.pdf

    Immigration I believe is the mother of all red herrings. Brexit is the lesser of two evils; isolationism with secrets intact and a convenient scapegoat with beastly xenophobes to carry the can, or the EU opening Pandora’s box on U.K. Finance.

    Brexit is quite literally the “Get out of Jail Free” card for U.K. Finance.

  210. defo says:

    Could i suggest a title Chic/Jomry ?

    Nana’s Nugget’s

    😉

  211. Luigi says:

    RE: news consolidation/rebuttal unit.

    What we need is a Scottish equivalent of the Alex Jones INFOWARS channel (on Youtube). Ok you may not agree with the right wing views – some of it seems crazy, but put that to the side and look at the effect it had. INFOWARS single-handedly took on the mighty USA MSM, challenged the lies and spin, and the doctored opinion polls on a daily basis, publicised Wikileaks releases and destroyed Hilary Clinton’s chance of becoming president. Guess who a grateful Trump called first after winning the presidential election?

    Now imagine if we had a Scottish equivalent of INFOWARS.

  212. Nana says:

    @Jomry

    Having been involved [in a small way, mainly providing links] for the billboard campaign, it might surprise you to learn the enterprise was set up and is run by three dedicated people. However there may be more people involved now.
    Their website informScotland is as far as I know updated constantly with new articles.

    I think the same could easily be done for a consolidated news site run by volunteers. All I do is read an article, archive if necessary and save for posting. I try where possible not to put a comment of my own as its up to the reader to take what they will from the article without my slant. Besides which if I was to do that I would not have time to read so much!

    As you say ideas are the easy part, the doing is another thing altogether. The billboard campaign took a long time to get underway, perhaps due to lack of help.

    As to posting links on Wings, a dedicated page would I think be best. That way no one need be fearful of going off topic on a thread.

  213. Chic McGregor says:

    Re consolidated news site.

    Some years back I had this vision of all the pro indy sites being available as a pseudo on line newspaper where each ‘page’ (i.e. site) could be turned over, similar to the National digital app..

    However, there were, for whatever reasons, no takers.

    The idea was, without compromising individual editorial responsibility, to provide an on line pro indy news portal which gave the reader the same look and feel as a newspaper.

    The advantage being not just that readers would be less likely to miss a site but they would come away feeling they had had a more rounded experience with a greater range of views and priorities than they would from an individual site.
    More like a good quality newspaper (remember them?).

    However, since then, we have had the advent of the National itself and to be honest, some of the sites that would have been shoo-ins for the original melange are well… maybe not so much anymore.

  214. Ken500 says:

    Permission for CCS st Longannet in Fife was refused by Westminster Unionists unelected in Scotland. They would rather ban coal production and import coal. Gas CCS project at Peterhead was reneged upon. Losing £Millions. Scotland lost out on access to EUnRenewable Grants because of Westminster indecision. The Tories took CAP payments intended for Scottish farmers. As part of the UK Scotland receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU.

    Hinkley Point is the biggest waste of public money. HS2 has a flawed business case and is a total waste of money. The HS3 rail line service should be improved in the North of England and services in Scotland for comparable rail against flight times in Britain. People want to take the train. An easy more comfortable journey with a better travel / flight time ratio comparison. Not have a disconnected journey, being more expensive and taking relatively longer.

    The Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud is wasting £trillions and destroying the world economy. There is now an unelected Tory Westminster Gov who committed electoral fraud and will do everything possible to destroy the Scottish economy. Reneged on promises. With illegal unfair, unequal taxes on the Oil & Gas sector when prices have fallen. Costing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. Then importing untaxed, fracked Gas from the US and importing Oil. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt.

    Scotland has to pay debt repayments on money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. More taxes are raised in Scotland (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. The Westminster Treasury takes £Billion s out of Scotland for Trident, illegal wars, tax evasion, unfair unequal taxes and banking fraud. No tax on ‘loss leading’ drink to help healthcare. An unelected UK Gov is now trying destroying the Scottish economy, further taking Scotland out of the EU. The ‘psycho bastards’.

    The UK Unionist Gov has secretly and illegally taken and wasted £Billions out of Scotland. Lied and kept the facts hidden under the Official Secrets Act. Depopulated Scotland with the centralist economic policies which favour London S/E. Causing congestion in the South and depopulation in the North. The North/South divide. May manipulated immigration figures to take the UK out of the EU. Failed on migration policies and denied the Tory/Unionist part in the illegal wars causing mass migration and destitution in Europe. The Tories are manipulating, dangerous liars. A danger to the world economy and security. Committing crimes against humanity. Chilcot was not acted upon.

    People join the Unionist Parties for what they can get. People join the SNP for what they can give. The only reason the 3rd reject Unionists are in Holyrood is to muck the Scottish economy up.

    Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Vote for Independence.

  215. Ken500 says:

    Thanks Nana for all you do. You are a revelation.

    Thanks to Rev Stu and everyone else. Such dedication.

    Statistically on average Trump has a 1 in five – 20% chance of surviving 4 years.

    How long will the unelected fraudulent Tories last? 2 years?

  216. ronnie anderson says:

    Just in case this has been overlooked ,we might just see it broadcast before Indy Ref 2.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/watch-the-secret-campaign-video-better-together-didnt-want-y?utm_term=.ex3JPN5Pvq#.icGkn92n6v

  217. Chic McGregor says:

    “Maggie Darling stopped this going out. Clever woman.”

    Yeah, they’d never use that meme.

    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/chicmac/457543_3910278992549_1146597135_33756413_1616836821_o.jpg

  218. orri says:

    A brief google shows that for a long time before the 1707 union Wales was referred to a being a dominion. Also note that there seems to be an implication that import taxes were imposed on food from Ireland in Scotland and some transitory measure was to used to maintain that after the union.

  219. Lenny Hartley says:

    Breeks I think your missing out a large chunk of the UK Public debt.
    I seem to recall Europe putting pressure on Broon to start using the same accounting system as the EU countries, this would mean PFI, Public Sector Pension Liability and Bank Bailouts going on the books more than doubling the UK public debt to over 3 billion. This is when their stated Public Debt was about 1.4 trillion pounds. Broon said he would do this but it never happened.

  220. Fred says:

    Rio Tinto have sold the Lochaber smelter & 100,000 acres to a consortium. The Scottish ministers are reportedly pleased at the buy-out as a going concern, but Labour isnae! The local communities are interested in the estates but no word of that as yet.

  221. Lochside says:

    The real reason the Tories want Brexit is two-fold: stop foreign immigration and utilise the indigenous ‘reserve army of labour'(Marx)to replace it as a supine and cowed work force to create their ‘economic (slave labour generated) economic miracle’. So no more pesky foreigners and no more workshy skyving proles.

    First destroy all workers’ rights; introduce the ‘gig’ economy (courtesy Damien Green); enforce more welfare cuts; more workfare i.e. slave labour for big corporations; curb and cut wages for the ‘greater good’ of the ‘Nation’.

    Second dismantle all the devolved governmments as too ‘costly and divisive’. Focus all Government in the S.E.

    Third, build up the National Defence forces, in order to ‘control internal terrorism, both Islamic and Nationalist’ and round up social media ‘inciters of hate’. The latter being a piece of cake, as they have everybody’s browsing history now under control courtesy of the InvestigaTORY Powers Bill.

    Fourth, Forbid any public assembly unless State sanctioned.

  222. Jack Murphy says:

    Nana,thanks for all your links this morning just after 7am. 🙂
    They should be required reading for those who still live on a diet of the Daily Mail,Scotland’s Champion and the BBC in Scotland.

  223. heedtracker says:

    They also completely cut out and left out Orkney and Shetland, including one of the world’s biggest offshore oil and gas industries. Not funny that. Forever running down and shitting on their Scottish region of greater England.

    Although on balance, average yoon roaster online explain/rages how Orkney and Shetland are not Scotland, but some kind of odd shangri la of Englandshiredom.

  224. Chic McGregor says:

    OT The problem rail has is it is technologically anachronistic.

    If someone today had the idea that a directed off road system of mass transportation for passengers and people were a good idea in terms of efficiency and road decongestion, and it certainly could be, they would design something completely different.

    What it might be we can only speculate, but my favourite would probably be concrete L profiled wheel guides (‘rails’) with rubber tyred rolling stock. Not only would that be cheaper compared to the iron and sleeper system but it makes shunting and station operations also much cheaper and easier since the train would simply come off on to a suitably large concrete area designed for the purpose in mind.

    Other ideas like a suspended mono rail system have great advantages in terms of safety (track obstruction unlikely) and passenger comfort (auto G alignment), but would cost a lot more than the existing system for track and off line manoeuvering.

    I think any new such start up would also encompass a surveillance system which took advantage of modern technology.
    For example, cams are so cheap now you could probably have one for every couple of hundred meters or so of track with appropriately advanced images relayed to the driver’s cab, any obstruction, oncoming train or other hazard could be seen in plenty time to stop or take other avoiding action. They could be designed to bleep to draw the driver’s attention if anything untoward is ‘seen’ by the train’s real time image analysis software.

    Or alternatively, it may be more cost effective to have a camera equipped radio linked ‘scout’ vehicle go ahead of the train.

    Or maybe even a drone scout when battery lives (lifes?) get long enough.

  225. Jack Murphy says:

    Bob Mack said at 10:01 am:-
    “Really good editorial piece by Sam Kylie on the Sky Web news site about journalists.
    I wish I could post the link but cannot. Worth a read.”
    A quote:-“The British tabloids are as vindictive as they are pernicious. Deliberately misinforming debate about race, immigration, economic policy – you name it, they bend it.”
    — Sam Kiley

    Here’s the link Archived to the article on Sky News on-line.
    http://archive.is/cFlh6

  226. Chic McGregor says:

    “Although on balance, average yoon roaster online explain/rages how Orkney and Shetland are not Scotland, but some kind of odd shangri la of Englandshiredom.”

    In the extremely unlikely event that Northern Isles Scots would ever vote to become English in a referendum, under UNCOS they would be regarded as English exclaves on the Scottish Continental Shelf and entitled only to a 12 mile limit.

  227. Chic McGregor says:

    UNCLOS

  228. Thepnr says:

    This is a very interesting parliamentary report from 2012 regarding the UK leaving the EU and potentially joining EFTA as a backdoor into the EEA.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/futunion/m21.pdf

    The more I read of EFTA the better the solution looks as a first step for an Independent Scotland.

  229. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Chic McGregor.

    RE: monorail. See:-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ZvfO-99dc

  230. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Briandoonthetoon Awfy lot of steel required tae build that oan the Glesga tae Edinburgh line, they’ve uased enough oan the Footbriges as it is.

  231. Chic McGregor says:

    BDTT

    Ehm yes. Won’t begin on the flaws with that.

    The following is more what I meant, a trial bus track in England.

    But they need to expand the idea to trains and possibly use disused rail track i.e. with appropriately gauged rolling stock.

    http://www.leighjournal.co.uk/news/14104779.Tests_taking_place_on_controversial_guided_busway_as_it_nears_completion/

  232. Chic McGregor says:

    PS What I meant was if they were starting from scratch now, with the now available rubberised tyres and cheap concrete production, this, or something like it is what they would come up with.

    A lot cheaper.

  233. yesindyref2 says:

    Nana’s Links

    Nana or someone would need to set up a wordpress.com with the appropriate title “Nana’s Links”, and Rev would need to set up a new widget in the right hand side at the bottom I guess, picking Display WordPress posts, and the URL of Nan’s wordpress blog It would have the title in the Rev’s widget as blank, unlike my example below where I put in “Nana’s Links”.

    You can see similar I set up temporarily on https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/ at the bottom.

    People would still have to click on the link, which would perhaps be just a date as a name for each article, to get to the list of links as Nana posts them here.

    Or on the Nana’s wordpress, just add the new list each day to the one single article – or have one for each month, like an archive.

    Takes longer to type out how to do it, than actually do it!

  234. yesindyref2 says:

    A small group of you could do it, share the wordpress login and pasword BY EMAIL NOT HERE, and then it would get done by whoever got in first. Now a load of fluff just in case someone’s quickly scanning through and sees a load of waffle when looking at first and last in a posting, there’s an obvious name for the wordpress, get in quick before a yoon does, not that i’m suggesting anything, and it really is a bit cold today, wrap up warm. Christmas is coming and the owls are hooting mad, and little elves running all around the garden.

  235. yesindyref2 says:

    Och for goodness sake this is an old thread so nobody will be posting soon, it’s a disaster!

  236. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Yilliv hud yir tea, yesindyref2?

  237. yesindyref2 says:

    Aye, and the post-tea nap. There should be another poster along soon …

  238. Hamish100 says:

    Mind you if we keep playing tapes of BBC scotchland’s favourite Britnat Katy le Grant and I am sure we have a good chance of persuading many labour Remain voters to vote IndyYES as well as pro Scot Indybrexits. What an over exitable person she is. She can’t help herself but run down Scotland but promote Britishness ie Little englander. Brexit good , brexit good!

    How much money does she make from the BBC PQ? I think we should be told. BBC stop wasting our money.



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