Wings Over Scotland

Before watching the video tracks i’ll take a wild plunge for the one using a very sad looking child as being the BT effort?

Catastrophe or cataclysm? Neither really captures the great joy and well-being which will inspire an independent Scotland. Good try though.

Bob Mack 11.18

That’s a very kind offer and greatly appreciated.Trouble is,with us being the most useless people on earth there’s nobody with the brains to work out how to start one.The best we can do is to make the noise of a chainsaw whilst we cut up a tree with a bit of jaggy steen.

Clocked that on Buzzfeed and OMFG!

They truly, truly were and STILL ARE completely tonto.

defo @ 11:24

Mags Darling (now known as “Baroness Splendid”) as the brains behind anything other than flipping her husband’s homes to squeeze the maximum out of the tax-paying plebs is hard to imagine. Can any organisation be that desperate? You’ll be telling me next that she and Mystic McTernan are going to release their own Xmas single.

The one where the voice over guy is trying really hard to sound like Neil “a cry of pish” Oliver has to be the spoof surely?

The second Doomsday scenario looks awfy familiar but mibby it’s just because of the rise it hate crimes since the Brexit vote.

Next up it’ll be Marshall law.

Nana im ok

Having seen the first one already I knew which was which. The second one is very much in the same vein though and I think a fair few of the Yoons would have been quite happy with that as representing their too wee, too poor, too stupid, too toxic message. The Viking Warrior/Tellen hive mind pretty much spout this in hundreds of posts a week in the MSM boards.

And here we all are two long years later and so much has changed.

Now England has voted for separation!

While iScotland has so much potential to be a successful country, can the same be said for iEngland? Not with the way their loony right are headed.

I’m sure we will have an open border when we do part company, however, which side is going to be the more prosperous and stable? I don’t think anyone could now seriously claim it will be south Britain!

I think the second one is the genuine one. And, yes, they were that stupid.

The second one reminded me of the movie 28 days, please tell me it’s the spoof lol!

@ Better Together
What a sad bunch of ideologically driven, supremacist, nationalists you lot are, true supporters of “Blood and Soil” nationalism. Personally I prefer liberty over slavery.

“The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

“The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

link to un.org

Can I make a prophecy that the Transport Minister be asked to resign over this. “Tongue in cheek”

Traffic lights fail again at busy Inverness roundabout

Controversial traffic lights at a busy Inverness roundabout have been out of operation for two days after suffering a power fault – and then being hit by a van.

?

?

Having heard rumours about this advert’s existence last year, the Rev offered £1000 for a copy. No-one took him up on it, clearly all the BT staffers were too loyal to leak it for a grand.

But now Jamie Ross off Buzzfeed gets a hold of it, one can’t help but wonder if one of the Better Together inner circle has now defected to the indy camp and has decided to leak this now. That would be exciting, just imagine what other secrets they could tell us 😀

And the award for clumsily overused visual metaphor goes to….Better Together.

Absolutely bat-shit crazy. Also, £50k, for that?!

Are sections of the spoof video lifted from ‘Doomsday’?

@TUBA-BOY
Your ignorance is truly spectacular, is it an act? Sure you don’t wish Scots were all English? That’s what British nationalism is, expansionist English nationalism. Here’s a prtty narrow perspective on what nationalism means, perhaps it will help enlighten you perspective?

A New England
An English identity within Britain

The politics of identity – why identity matters

National identity is a hard thing for anyone to talk about. What after all, is more nebulous and elusive than a nation’s identity? But it is a particularly hard thing for politicians to talk about. For when they do, they are generally accused, from the left of chauvinism and, from the right, of treachery – or at least lack of patriotism. No doubt my comments today will court these accusations. Nevertheless, I think it is extremely important that politicians, and especially progressive, social democratic politicians, do talk about national identity.

But how powerful are these arguments? They assume first, that national sentiment is something that can be suppressed or eradicated. But is this really so? Certainly, some people have a stronger sense of national identity than others. And a tiny minority of people – people who perhaps spend their lives moving from one place to another – have hardly any sense of national belonging at all. But most people do have firm ties to one or sometimes, even two or three, countries, even if it some times takes a terrible event – an attack on their homeland, the outbreak of a war, a natural disaster – to make them appreciate how strong those ties are.

I believe that there is a real danger that if we simply neglect or talk down national identity – people’s sense of common belonging and shared values – we risk creating a festering, resentful national identity, an identity based not on confidence but on grievance. Indeed, if we look at the most unattractive examples of nationalism, they usually have their roots in the nationalists’ belief, true or otherwise, that they have been denied their birthright – that a foreign power, or an overly cosmopolitan, unpatriotic ruling class has prevented them from being who they really are.

link to ippr.org

“The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

“The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

link to un.org

Was going to ask if it was cheating if you recognised the clips in the second video. Must get round to watching it again sometime.

Any chance that as it was towards the end of the campaign that Better Together stiffed the ad company on the cheque so they decided to release it?

Bit cheeky in your spoof to suggest that some of Northern England would be coming with us to damnation.

Pishtradamus & the Runes of the Yoons.

Nothing is ever as it seems these days. But surely it’s the first film that the real mccoy. If it was the second one, no wonder some Better Togetherer had the wisdom to tell them to pull it.

Actually had the former Labour Scotland Autonomous Branch Office and Regional SNP Bad MP Iain McKenzie tell me this exact thing that Scotland would just be a small island adrift in the Atlantic.

McKenzie did manage to turn a 20.8% majority for Labour into a thumping -25.6% share of the votes so at least he had that going for him.

I’d say by the size of Scotland on the map it’s the first one. Funny thing is the same one could be used for our departure from the EU.

Lady Merryn Somnerset Webb, voice of Scotland on BBC r4 Lunchtime vote tory or else show right the noo. Great to hear a Scots Embro voice on BBC r4 news for a change. Lady Merryn is hugely BBC popular these days, and its heartening to see the BBC giving a Scotland a voice these days.

The bit about “our NHS” implies it’s one health service across Britain, doubt they could get away with that anymore!

You folks clocking some of this budget talk on twatter?

“Blimey – £30 billion deficit forecast in 2019/20, forecast as surplus of £10bn just in MArch – a £40 billion swing into the red.” Faisal Islam

“So far: Hammond has predicted SLOWER growth, HIGHER inflation, WEAKER tax receipts, HIGHER borrowing.” Gulp Chris Shipitv

“Finally @PHammondMP gets to the real point. After 2020 the state pension won’t be ring fenced, or the health/social care budget.” paulmasonnews

So if McDougall, Darling or Brown are following this?

There are some folks in Scotland who may have a few pointed questions for you.

Just sayin’.

@ Oil & Gas Tax now 40% since Jan 2016.

link to thecanary.co

Mmmm so that’s how many jobs again Jabba? 7000 INCLUDING the people building the subs in Cumbria….

Westminster Tories now borrowing £122Billion more. By 2020? £2Trillion more. Calamitous. Brexit.

Brillo lost his voice. Not happy. Have another glass of wine. Alcoholic make poor decisions. Without proper ‘total abstinence’ rehab counselling

‘Psycho Bastards’.

Heeheehee.

I’m not a geologist, but a wee voice in my head saying that Scotland and England actually do come from different techtonic plates, pretty much as depicted.

England is largely flat, sedimentary rocks, some sandstone but loads of Limestone which is basically formed by the detritus forming at the bottom of a river bed for sandstone, or maritime sediment for limestone.

Scotland is predominantly igneous and metamorphic rock, and I believe was once attached to the Canadian Rocky Mountains back when the continents were merged… (Pangea was it???). Like the Rocky Mountains, Scotland’s geology is more volcanic in origin. Sandstones too, but granite and igneous / metamorphic shale etc changed by heat and tremendous pressure.

But yeah, Scotland and England collided hundreds of millions of years ago, so that fault line isn’t fictional, it properly does exist. I believe the central belt and Borders is actually Scotland’s crumple zone. Lol.

link to snh.gov.uk

I dunno mind. I can look at these clips and kinda chuckle and grimace at the same time. But that was Better Together all over…

You kinda get the feeling with a wee tweak and switched logo here and there, either video would suffice as a public information film about Brexit… with the closing credits rolling as rUK paddle steams off into the mid Atlantic with Theresa May and Boris Johnson giving it the Titanic salute up front in the bow.

Has to be BOTH of them. That’s just about the right amount of contempt, loathing and lack of confidence they have for themselves.

“BuzzFeed News can reveal the rejected advert, titled “The Island”, shows a frightened young girl watching some sentient tools – including pliers, a blowtorch, and a chainsaw – as they sever Great Britain in half, leaving the child to look over a sheer cliff face as Scotland floats off into the Atlantic Ocean.”

Not unlike this then:

link to imgur.com

Better Together my arse!

This morning red Tory Ian Murray at Scottish Questions, rather than taking the Tories to task as Labour’s only Scottish MP, asked whether Mundell agreed that another independence referendum was causing the biggest uncertainty to business in Scotland.

Ultra-unionism is all they have left. They are in a deranged circle wank where nothing else matters. Yet still they wonder why they are irrelevant to Scottish politics, such is their myopia.

Budget …

£1.1bn extra investment in English local transport networks
£220m to reduce traffic pinch points
£23bn to be spent on innovation and infrastructure over five years

Can we assume there will be Barnet consequentials to Scotland for the first, and a fair Scottish share of the second and third?

Or, have we to pay AGAIN for infrastructure spending in England?

Come 2020, after ten years of Tory rule the UK will have a £100 billion deficit each year so under Westminster control of our economy Scotland’s share is £12 billion a year as part of £15 billion GERS deficit.

Scotland’s share is £12 billion a year as part of £15 billion GERS deficit.

Yes but, yes but, yes but, we get back “Discussions to begin on a city deal.” UKOK yoon’s hysterical excitement is infectious, like herpes.

Kezia Dugdale Retweeted
Johanna Boyd ?@BoydJohanna1 2h2 hours ago
Johanna Boyd Retweeted James Millar
Absolutely delighted!! We did it for StirlingJohanna Boyd added,

James Millar @PoliticalYeti
Discussions to begin on a Stirling city deal meaning all Scottish cities in line for a deal. Well played @BoydJohanna1 #AutumnStatement
0 replies

I just spoke with someone who I know to have a non-political outlook and to have voted No in 2014, having swallowed Better Together’s world view. Their patter only confirmed his belief in Britain as One Nation.

He agrees with me that it is ridiculous to suggest our disagreement has left us at each others throats. We even shook hands to confirm this. Despite his lack of a higher edumication, he now thinks Better Together are full of “shite”. His words.

British national ideology is not strong enough to maintain it’s hold over once submissive Scots minds, given the appalling dishonesty and abuse of trust the British state has shown towards Scots. Time to put the beast out of our misery.

@TUBA-BOY
You’ll be happy to know I have you in my thoughts. 😉

The only thing missing from the BT broadcast is the wee lassie turning into a foreigner, horror movie style.

SO, say an ‘Act of Nature’ does actually give us a perfect south coast of Scotland..

Would that make us auto-independent?

Whip crack away, whip crack away, whip crack away Jane.

Mon the nature!

The top video is the one because the second was a clip from a movie about a deadly outbreak that started in Scotland that was threatening to spread all over the UK. So the authorities decided to build a wall cutting Scotland off from the rest of the UK preventing anyone from entering or leaving Scotland.this caused the people to become inhuman cannibals Ironically the cure was in Scotland. I was a very poorly produced movie but it could have easily been used by better together.

Anybody thinking about all that cap from the Tories about not saddling our children and grandchildren with debt ? £2 trillion by 2020?

This country is on the very same path that Greece followed. Greece was something like 80% debt to GDP in the 1980’s. Look at it now at around 180%.

The only way from here is down without any strong leadership and fiscal ability.

I truly fear for the future if we do not get out within the next 2 years.

Yeah, the south coast of Scotland would be great for jobs.

Bridges, boats, tunnels and tourism ~ That’s the future! 🙂

I love this picture – David Davis* vs the EU :

If that doesn’t work then its from this article :

link to euobserver.com

*David Davis to give him his due was a decent opposition MP on privacy issues etc. That was a fair old while ago….

Mibbees if we talk nicely about the Donald, he’ll negotiate us a great deal on wall material, when he gets his Mexican stuff.

In defence of the “Doomday” plot it was supposed to a UK developed Bio weapon escape & there is a historic precedence for that synario “Gruinard”

an island maybe 500m from main land that was infected with Anthrax as a test.

They’re both hilariously over the top. I didn’t know Scotland was attached to England by logs and rope. What are you lot fussing about an indyref for then? Just get your chainsaws out, indy sorted.

The first one has to be the one they pulled. There is no UK NHS, thankfully for us.

Marcia says:

There is no UK NHS, thankfully for us.

They milked that one well and truly. I remember reading that over half of Scots thought the NHS was a UK wide institution. And worst, almost half of NHS (Scotland) employees also thought that!

It was an own goal by the SNP. When they changed Scottish Executive to Scottish Government they should have also changed NHS (Scotland) to Scottish HS, or whatever.

The situation allowed BT to push the idea that the ‘jewel in the crown’ of public services was threatened by Indy.

If it had been renamed and rebranded it could have been pushed as the Scottish ‘jewel in the crown’ under threat by continued UK membership!

A negative, could have been a positive. Many things won and lost IndyRef1. That alone may have been worth a few percent!

Anent the Autumn Statement, just listened in vain for any response from SNP MP’s on Shortbread, we had Varry somebody interviewing Douglas Fraser at length & Ian Murray spouting ad nauseum about Scotland’s share, then loads of time spent on Ann Frank. Would a “Scottish Six” just prolong the agony?

One of the things that has always crossed my mind was that the Naysayers seem to lack a sense of humour. To me this is a very important psychological tool in being able to temper how you say and do things, and ultimately how you think about the world. They seem to lack any sense of imagination and therefore all-too-easily accept the established order of things. They seem to have a very narrow, dogmatic view of things which comes with not being able to think with, and from, a broader perspective. Whether it be the George Square Riot Squad or privately-schooled Tory boys, they all seem to have a screw or two missing. And on this matter I am NOT joking.

Shortbread radio says’£800m bonus’several times or reports’ £800m extra’ while MP Murray says ‘allocation’.

Only later does a shortbread person mention the ‘Barnett-ization’ formula which is an ‘entitlement’ as things stand but a pittance really when I listened to the Hammond organ splash the cash darn Sarf! 🙁

Finally Stuart Hosie gets a say after Murray and Mundell and he did a reasonable stint in handling the Qs but might have scored a few points more if he had a little more time and I was a little less in a pissed off mood.

Pensions triple lock only to 2020 older folks and then what!

Independence asap please!

#Vestas @ 3.31 pm

Good article. It talks about possible Article 50 by end of 2017 which led me to think that the Scottish Government could appeal to the European Court of Justice if they disagreed with the UK Supreme Court’s interpretation on anything from a judgement on Westminster’s case or on the SC’s interpretation of the Treaty of Union which will feature. If given leave to appeal to ECJ then the end of 2017 for an outcome might just be optimistic.

The 2nd video is one of Tory Britain today, no spoof intended

Thepnr
Good post but I think VAT rates were recently(?) “harmonised” in the EU.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already.
Any coincidence that there were train problems in Glesca this morning?
It would not surprise me if the Yoon parties accidentally?! chucked a wee cable over the electric lines to cause the problem.
As the Yoon parties are basically inept at being real politicians, and think they have some momentum going regarding the transport minister, (they are delusional)or
is the paranoia creeping back in???
Had to scrape the ice from my windscreen this morning, that SNP need to do more to cause global warming, lets get some real!!! yoon politicians?!? to get things sorted, you only have to look at FMQs and the quality of the opposition parties, they look like Donkey Kong.
Nuf Said.

@CameronB Brodie

They are harmonised within the EU to an extent. The minimum VAT rate is 15% and in the UK it is currently 20%.

EFTA/EEA members have the freedom to choose their own rate of VAT across all sections of goods and have no need to follow EU rates.

Thepnr, EFTA membership ticks all the boxes, the Scots remain voters see it as a step to full membership while the Scots leave in which a significant number were Yes voters will like that solution, it really is the best of both worlds 🙂

@Lenny Hartley

Reading about EFTA today I found a statement of a poll in Scotland that stated 79% preferred EFTA to 21% of staying in the EU.

Obviously this result must have excluded those that want nothing whatsoever to do with Europe.

Still looking for the original source but I can understand why this may be true among those that want to keep some ties with Europe.

@Scottish Psyche.

Unless the Rev has murdered several nuns and stolen several newborns from their mother the papers especially the Sunday Herald can say what they damn well like. He will still get my contributions.

Like you,I have been thinking for some time that they will try to silence the only true medium for accurate information about Scottish independence .That is Wings.

My position as above is clear and immovable.

“The south coast of Scotland”

North, south, east to west..

“Lies, damned lies and social media – Kevin Hague on how SNP MPs continue to misinform”

Sez Kevarage of the Daily Record and a double SNP bad Graun whammy,

“Fight the ‘blight’ of windfarms near my golf courses, Trump urges Ukip leader
US president-elect does not deny pushing interim leader Nigel Farage and key associates to fight development of windfarms in Scotland”

That takes four Graun liggers,

Robert Booth in London, Severin Carrell in Edinbugh, David Smith in Washington

And

“Scotland’s transport minister apologises to rail travellers
Emergency statement by the SNP’s Humza Yousaf does little to deflect criticism over delays and reliability problems on ScotRail”

Which just takes one, Libby Brooks Scotland correspondent.

Our chums in the south really want their Scotland region back.

Desimond says:
23 November, 2016 at 3:16 pm
@Heedtracter
Vote NO for pension UKOK triple lock safety and niceness, gone.

According to todays statement, Isn’t it guaranteed for at least this parliament?

The Guardian just the noo. Fact is, UK cant afford triple lock with tory economics now, still giant borrowers, nowhere near clearing deficit after 10 years, all made worse by Brexit.

Its going to mean tax hikes 2020, or end of triple lock. Which do you think a 15 year old right to reign over us tory catastrofuck government will choose?

“Pensioners

What seemed like a promise was really more of a threat. Pensioners have benefited since 2010 from the so-called “triple-lock”, a guarantee that the state pension will go up every year by either inflation, the average rise in earnings or 2.5%, whichever is the highest. This is great if you’re older, but not if you’re a 20-something on a low wage who feels the baby boomers are still hogging all the good stuff.

Hammond vowed the government would “meet our pledge” to protect pensions until 2020; after that, however, it will need to look at “the challenges of rising longevity and fiscal sustainability”. Which sounds awfully like a warning.”

From the other thread, a suggestion about Nana’s links, if not a dedicated Wings page similar to Paula’s.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

BT’s distillation of all the big fears. Quick run down:

1. Small size is mentioned 5 times. (Too wee).
2. Pensions, schools, children, defence. (Too poor).
3. UK on top world councils (Too stupid).

But today’s reality shows just how mad we were to vote NO:

a) ‘Greatest country on our planet’. Foreshadows rampant right wing British nationalism.
b) ‘Strongest defence in Europe’. If nuclear winter is your thing.
c) ‘UK companies global strength’ alludes to EU. Oh, we’re leaving that, so not so much global strength as parochial, remember we make the best jams in the world.
d) ‘Our industries.’ Eh what are they? UK industries run down (e.g.steel) or owned by non UK parent companies.
e) ‘Control all our Scottish taxes’ which is 15% of all taxes only.
f) Protection from the big, rapidly changing world’. Foreshadows England’s withdrawal from the world in fear of immigrants.

and the daddy of all fears

g) ‘Oldest and strongest currency in the world.’ More Britnat crowing. But Brit pride comes before a fall, as English pound (it’s no oors, remember) crashes after Brexit & continues to fall.

Don’t know about you but I am now absolutely bomb-proofed to all their ‘howling at the moon’ lies.

Well, that was cheery!

Back to Skyrim.

You will not have the EU come out and say explicitly that of course an Independent Scotland would be a welcome addition to the EU.

Definitely not while they have even yet to even start negotiations on Brexit.

However, for the 4 small countries in EFTA to say exactly that shouldn’t be a problem, whether they will or not could be up for debate. A strong hint in the direction though could go a long way to gaining votes in a second referendum

The Scottish Government know this of course.

With the big guns Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond visiting/talking to all four EFTA countries just in the last week you can sure that something is afoot.

Whatever that might be I am assured that it WILL be in our best interests.

Thepnr @ 5.55
While I also like/can live with EFTA/EEA membership for Scotland.

I do have a few problems,firstly with what you describe as a five year naughty step for the Uk,I am not all that sure Westminster can be trusted not to try to damage it’s main competitors (Scotland) directly while taking part in the negotiation if they still control most of our economy.
Also indirectly with the negotiation it’s self.
They do have form for this and,to be honest it is definitely in their interests to do so.

Also where in that plan is Trident and the Scottish Navy Ship building programme?.

But my main concern is with the part of the article you linked to,that explores Scotland in a Union with N.Ireland.
While ok there is no great amount of detail on this.
The whole Idea horrified me.
There’s no mention of Scotland having a vote on it,although that’s not to say that wouldn’t/couldn’t happen.
But my reaction is….have we learned nothing.
Scotland would be numerically stronger.
All the equal status statements in the world could be in the Treaty,but it is not going to work like that.
I don’t want Holyrood to be for N. Ireland what Westminster is to us.
And that’s exactly what is likely to happen.
Why on earth would the people of N.Ireland be better served by a Union with us,than either the one they have or with the rest of their own country?
Also flung in the mix is a plan for some sort of court,to adjudicate all this.
It may be just my suspicions mind and I can see that you are getting at framing a plausible route through to our independence.
But I am reading part’s of that article as an attempt at back door federalism to keep these islands together.
With a rebranding exercise and a tinkering of power.
You know the sort of thing.
Let’s keep a money Union.
Let’s all do Defence together.
We can approach the rest of the world as one (Foreign Affairs)
Let’s have our new shiny Court distribute revenue from the Ex Regio Territory… it’s only fair.

Which begs the question….where does that leave the writing of,the authority of and the implementation of our own Constution ?
A Court such as the one described has to I think operate on the assumption that everything will tick along just as it is.
We are to different now.
And Ireland already has a written Constution so probably won’t join and have it (Constution) deffer to this court.
So we really are just talking about the UK.

Ultimately though the biggest risk is ending up Court ruled an not Parliament ruled.
Jist Sayin.

@Liz g

Of course you do realise that the article I linked to was for those that are interested to get more information. I never said that I agreed with any of the authors views. They are the opinion of the author and not mine.

The part I was interested in and if you read it, I’m sure you noticed was this which was too big to post below my own post.

The last part is boring indeed, it is one mans opinion. I am not qualified to provide such an opinion but thought readers of Wings might have thought it interesting.

We shouldn’t be held to account for the links we post offering opinion. If we were then doubt we would hear from Nana ever again.

The advantage to its becoming an independent EFTA-EEA state is that Scotland would not be committed to joining the Euro under such an arrangement.

EU law itself already makes express provision in Regulation 1082/2006 for the creation by regional and local authorities within the Member States of “European Groupings of Territorial Co-operation” (EGTC) which are transnational bodies with legal personality created to facilitate territorial co-operation with other bodies in other Member States and/or with neighbouring overseas countries or territories associated with the EU (OCTs) and/or with neighbouring third countries outside the EU (“neighbouring” being defined in Article 3a(1) as including sharing a common land border or facing a common sea basin).

Since the authos is a Scottish QC specialising in EU Law, I guess his opinion has at least some validity.

Thepnr @ 8.53
Yes I did realise that it was FYI you were posting,I am sorry I didn’t make that more clear.
To be honest….and I am sure you will agree….my post was bloody long enough.
Anyhoo for the avoidance of doubt…it was the article I was mainly commenting on….
I actually do agree with you that EFFTA ect could work for us.
And as I suspect like you was just exploring and dicussing the writing that’s doing the rounds on it.
Also as I am sure you can tell…yes I did find the article interesting.
So again sorry for giving the impression I was thinking these were your views I don’t.
But I am glad you said something because I wouldn’t like to put anyone off posting a link either.
No excuse really but the kids were running interference a bit when I was posting.
Will try not to do that again…..no promises though!

@Dave McEwan Hill have a look at modern monetary theory (new economic perspectives is a good resource).

Issuing your own currency is one of the most powerful economic tools a country can have at its disposal. I wouldn’t give those levers of control up to the fundamentally neoliberal ECB under any circumstances.

Breeks
I’d be happy to remain in an EU that provides a framework for international cooperation, I’m not so happy with the one that appears to be forming, i.e. a centralised, corporatist super-state. I do think though that it would be beneficial to step forwards in to the world, surrounded by our EU friends. Get a feel of ourselves and where we fit in the world, before we put any thought in to what other approaches might suite our needs better.

I’d also like some, well all, of my human rights respected.

@Dave McEwan Hill
“I struggle to understand why there should be any important reason why we should not join the Euro. (or the dollar or the yen or whatever)”

There are very good reasons

We would be effectively using a foreign currency meaning that our country’s income would be restricted to what it can tax, how much it could make from exports and lastly what we could borrow.
The Euro countries are restricted by the stability growth pact, meaning they are only supposed to run deficits up to 3% of their GDP and have a maximum debt stock of up to 60% GDP. This is what stopped Greece having the ability to stimulate its economy – which is what it needs.

The stability growth pact was put together by neoliberal mainstream economists (like the ones running the UK) who don’t actually understand how the aggregate economy works. They conflate a country’s finances with a firm or household and so believe that govt making savings (austerity) actually works. What they fail to see is that in aggregate one person’s spending is another’s income. So in aggregate you reduce spending – you reduce income and the whole thing spirals downward – unless the government intervenes. Greece not having a central bank and currency had to abide by the stupid rules and the rest is history. Can anyone tell me Greece is sovereign?

The above is why the Eurozone is grinding to a halt. Countries aren’t able to exercise their sovereign right to spend and stimulate their economies.

Eurozone counties face a high cost of borrowing because they are not currency issuers. They are currency users. They don’t have a sovereign central bank like the UK which can guarantee every bond issues will be honoured. Unlike the UK they can most certainly default and hence are a higher investment risk.

The UK has ran consistent deficits since WW2. Its debt tripled in just 10 years, yet interest rates (the interest at which it ‘borrows’) Went down to almost zero – where they are today, completely flying in the face of neoliberal economic theory. Japan, America, Australia are all in the same boat. Why?
Because they are currency issuers. They can never default. The Bank of England owns one third of UK gilts which it accomplished by marking up an accounting entry in its computer. Any investor will know that UK bonds are a guaranteed safe investment.

It becomes quite clear when you compare the fortunes of Iceland and Greece in the aftermath of 2008. The following is a good summary of why Iceland is going from strength to strength and Greece is ruled by Brussels…
link to bilbo.economicoutlook.net

p.s. Ireland is pretty much a ‘brass plate’ economy. It attracted some monstrous US firms by reducing corporate tax to register in Ireland giving it what would seem like overnight miracle growth but very little of that is real wealth.

Paula Rose & Thepnr
I don’t think we will get to cross purposes.

I have said before that I find it difficult to punctuate properly.
Therefore the tone of what I am trying to say doesn’t always look right even to me when I read it back.
But more than that first person,third person stuff …well let me just say… I could write better stories than Jackey if I knew how to do that.

But I think it was just carelessness this time.

So I absolutely accept I sounded like it was Thepnr I was crediting with that statement.
It shouldn’t have been cause I knew fine well it was the author’s.
And I am glad to have the chance to apologise and clear it up.

I would much rather someone said something,than just thought it.
How stupid would I have looked if anyone else reading,clealy saw I had got it wrong and it hasn’t been put right.

This site is about being accurate in what we say,and we should always point out when we pick up on something that’s not.
There’s only going to be a problem if someone can’t admit they were wrong.
Well I think so anyway.
And obviously this time I was.
Treasure it Paula Rose cause it doesn’t happen often….!!!!

You heard it hear first.
Westminster now has its get out of jail card, regarding its continuous shambles.
BREXIT.
Scotland is totally FCKUED, there is no way Whingestan will get cuts if Scotland can be used as a scape goat.
Lets sit back and laugh at the 2014 nay sayers, I have NO SYMPATHY.
Just heard Murdo(I crack one off to Brenda)Fraser, on S hit TV, TWAT, wee message to Yoon trolls, you have NO credible politicians.
Humza, 1 million % behind you.

The first video freaked me out. But I did like the scenario of the island being divided in two. Scotland sails off towards Norway while wengland heads west to USA trump land. Result.

By the way if you haven’t read Project Fear yet by joe pike you are missing out. A fascinating insight behind the BT campaign. And a rare bit of objective truth from the unionist side. Recommended.

Thepnr

Thanks to you an others for your discussion on EFTA. I think we need to be a little bit cool about this and above all confident. Confident in ourselves above all else.

I would like to see us remain in the EU but it is not unconditional. We have loads to offer but we can fall into the trap of undervaluing ourselves and thinking we are not wanted or valuable. It comes from being in an abusive relationship.

No-one is going to be interested until we take the obvious confident step of planting our flag in the ground and saying “this is this”.

We are going to have a hell of a time if we are relying on the EU or EFTA taking the diplomatically difficult step of saying we can 100% join.

The argument is the basics. The list of what percentage of x we have. Being a big net exporter. Plus all the negative stuff.

The UK is tanking- it has not recovered from 2008 and I fear Hammond’s dreary Autumn Statement was sugar coating the situation. Westminster is in deep, deep shit and they know it.

The fireworks will start with the appeal in December. If the government are defeated then the union is over. If the government win the union is over.

I know we are used to this carcass trudging on endlessly like a zombie but we have simply become immune to how vulnerable the union is right now. It will not withstand the next constitutional crisis.

The union has survived based on the supposed strength of the south-east of England and our supposed weakness. It will not survive the self-inflicted headshot of brexit.

We have options, we have international goodwill and we are in a far better position than most to face up to the difficulties all countries will face in the future due to geographic and demographic circumstances. Finally we have 40% of the electorate who are already quite prepared to endure a hard border and a vast activist base who are gearing up.

Interesting times brother- I am becoming more positive with each passing day.

OT. I don’t mean to be presumptuous but I think Sherry Coutu would agree with me that space is not the same as place.

Scotland and England have intrinsic characters and identities that produce different needs and opportunities.

One Nation Britain is a (Victorian) modernist concept that seeks to deny this reality. OK, it acknowledges the reality but only within the confines of the ideological construct. Such an approach to national development can be expected to hinder Scotland’s economic performance, social well-being, environmental quality and the sustainability of post-modern Scottish culture and society.

It is that serious folks, Scotland is faced with eventually becoming a footnote in history. A shortbread obituary. We are in the middle of a global paradigm shift driven by neo-liberal globalisation. Some of those across the pond and down south have spotted this and chosen to strike out in their own ‘bold’ direction.

I’d rather choose my own path towards an enabling environment secured by the respect of human rights. Fancy joining me?

“The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

“The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

link to un.org

I love Wings, mainly because I can feel the determination for Independence that exists no matter what may be thrown in our direction.

This is supposed to be Cybernat Central and a hotbed of Nationalist abuse LOL. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is a hotbed of discussion that seeks the truth.

OK The Rev starts a discussion with an article and then it is up to all the contributors to expand that discussion. It’s a place that those of Independent mind say whatever they like.

That is the root of it’s success, not just the great articles by the Rev and others but the ordinary Scot who contributes makes this a kind of special place.

All the variety that Scotland has to offer is on view on Wings, as far as I’m concerned it is as representative of a Scot as you will ever get. Sadly I am excluding Tories in that view, but I won’t let that worry me. I already knew what they want and believe in and I’m not buying.

WOS is very very important in our fight for Independence and that is why it is hated so much and many would love to see it closed down for their own reasons. I’ve heard there will be a smear innuendo piece in this weeks Sunday Herald.

I’m interested, but suspect I’ll just laugh at the best they can do and carry on reading and posting on Wings.

I’m certain that WOS added a minimum of 5% to support for Independence in the first referendum. Add another 5% in the second and Scotland will be Independent. As we continue to be attacked in the MSM we should carry on as we are and quietly convert our family and friends because this is working.

Let’s stick together, encourage others to Yes. The path to victory.

Scotland’s National Security.

Brutally ruthless and treacherous beyond belief. Such is the regime at Westminster. When was it ever any different. Hardly a basis for a lasting marriage or an equal partnership.

In an era of uncertainty, established first by Brexit and then by the election of Donald Trump, if Scotland is to have a secure future, then it will have to be built upon a foundation of Independence as a first step.

The EU has yet to go through the uncertainties of impending elections and who knows how far anti-elite voter sentiment will impact on the make-up and policy structure of the European Union in the period after these elections.

Add to that calculation, the tectonic adjustment of the world’s shifting economic plates, and you have a future projection which is impossible to forecast, far less plan for.
Like passengers on a cruise ship, we are very interested in changes to the daily menu, but perhaps without fully realising that the ship’s course has been changed, and while we know we are no longer going to where we signed up for, we have no idea where we will end up. C’est la vie, en 2016!

When Nicola became Scotland’s First Minister, she could not have known the events and circumstances awaiting her. And yet, with political upheaval previously unheard of, and confronted by uncharted territory, so far, she is guiding Scotland, slowly but surely, along a path on which she is proving to be sure-footed. We can only hope that the clamour of anxious voices behind her does not distract or divert her. And it is here that we can be a real support, by renewing our trust in her. With powder dry, she may yet call on us for one supreme effort to secure Scotland’s future as an independent country in our own right.
In an uncertain world, that’s the very least we might need.

It’s a neo-fascist thing

What is a fascist and does anyone ever actually say they are one? Nazi’s in America were on tv nazi saluting yesterday, so at the very least, there’s no ambiguity over there.

BBC Newsnight tonight pretty comprehensive stuff on Hammond, now its a Daily Heil dude, Polly Toynbee and chums. Ofcourse no Scots voice but we all know how that crew terribly monster Scottish democracy, day in day out.

Tonight BBC r4 PM show had Eddie Mair discussing BNP types and explained how they have almost no elected rep now. Yet Farage and UKIPers are almost never off the BBC airwaves.

There may trouble ahead, but the right are coming to get you, hiding under your bed, online, CiFing on WoS:D

The one ray of hope is Nic Robinson’s Today show newspaper morning headline round up no longer includes the Express roasters. Very odd.