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Wings Over Scotland


The flexibility of words

Posted on April 17, 2014 by

This is the new “positive” campaign poster from “Better Together”:

btbbw

There’s a lie in the picture, but it’s probably not the one you think.

Because while it seems at first glance like a heinous and crass falsehood, the line about “MORE POWERS FOR SCOTLAND GUARANTEED” is, when looked at from a certain direction, perfectly true. Tory councillor Gordon Mccaskill explained it helpfully to an alert Wings reader this morning:

mccaskill

Right there, in black and white from the horse’s mouth, is the true meaning of a No vote – what they mean by “more powers” is that we’ll get the ones that are already enshrined in law through the Scotland Act 2012, and which (by forming their various devolution “commissions”) all three Unionist parties have already acknowledged are inadequate for Scotland’s needs.

The BT poster sneakily seeks to imply otherwise, but all the No camp is promising are MORE powers (than we have right now), not NEW powers over and above those written into law two years ago. So the Scottish Parliament will still get to control airguns and some speed limits, and not much else.

The lie, of course, is the other half of the poster. “MORE JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR US AS PART OF THE UK” simply isn’t true on any level.

It’s slightly odd to be advertising the fact that thousands of Scots have to leave their homeland every year in search of employment in the first place, but the Union isn’t responsible for Scots getting work in England, Wales or Northern Ireland, any more than it’s responsible for those who find jobs in France or Germany or Spain or Denmark or Sweden.

Scotland isn’t governed by any of those countries, but freedom of movement within the EU (and indeed most of the democratic world) means that Scots are able to apply for and get jobs in any of them, and the same will be true of the rUK after independence.

Indeed, a Yes vote is likely to create thousands of extra job opportunities at home that won’t exist if Scotland stays in the UK, because there’ll be some inevitable duplication of certain administrative functions – and that’s before any Scottish Government implements policies tailored specifically to boost Scottish employment.

(As opposed to London employment, which is where four out of every five new UK jobs have gone in recent years.)

A No vote, by definition, won’t create a single new job anywhere in Britain, because it’s a vote to keep things the way they are now. Conversely, a Yes vote won’t disqualify a single Scot from getting a job in the rUK that they could get now. Ironically, in terms of employment opportunity, independence is unarguably “the best of both worlds”.

While semantic sophistry enables “Better Together” to mislead with the “more powers” line without actually saying anything that’s technically untrue, there’s no conceivable spin or interpretation that can be put on the “more job opportunities” claim that can make it anything other than a flat-out lie.

They just can’t help themselves. Lying is in their DNA.

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178 to “The flexibility of words”

  1. Hewitt83 says:

    The time has come and gone long ago for Better Together to even try and pretend to be positive. They are a running joke who people are hopefully finally starting to see through.

  2. Jim Watson says:

    Another expert demolition on BT – I already posted on facebook that their poast was an outright lie…

  3. Nick Heller says:

    What’s odd is that it takes so much more effort to tell these stupid fibs than to say something semi-arguable. Little wonder that even their own side find them lamentable.

  4. heedtracker says:

    What did you do to shut down Scottish democracy in 2014 Daddy MacDougall? I bullshitted them they actually have democracy of their very own, works every time.

  5. CameronB says:

    Snake oil salesmen. Grrr

  6. maaarghk says:

    I’m getting a 404 on the images, RevStu.

  7. Taranaich says:

    Wings is leaking into the real world, folks: I was in Largs this lunchtime, and found a lovely wee car flying a saltire on a stick on the roof, festooned with Wings bumper stickers! Aricht, fess up, wha wis it? 😀

    Possibly related: since when did they make stainless steel EYELASHES for cars? Madness.

  8. Doug Daniel says:

    I saw a tweet from some unionist that said it was true because independence would lead to lots of job losses in the defence industry. Bollocks obviously, but even if it were true, it would still be sophistry – they’re really meaning “no loss of jobs” rather than “lots of fabulous new jobs!” Also, that would then imply that “more powers” means “Scotland will have more powers as a part of the UK than it would as an independent country”, which is clearly absolute horse-shit.

  9. Dan Watt says:

    I live and work in Germany. Although my job is brilliant and the experience so far has been one that I will look back on fondly, especially since the referendum was announced, I sometimes wish I was home to fully appreciate the moment, especially when Scotland becomes independent.

    Needless to say, I’m not living in Germany out of necessity, but there simply aren’t the opportunities available for folk my age (I’m now 33) that carry the same level of pay and therefore lifestyle that I can achieve much easier here.

    For reference, I am a Project Manager specialising in Cisco network migrations. The jobs market today shows me that the only chance I would have of matching my salary now in the UK, would be to work in London.

    Scarily, the job in London matching my Project Manager job (in terms of pay and conditions) would be that of a Director or General Manager. The pay gap is astounding. Project Managers in the UK are on much less equivalent wages, so far as I can see.

    That, of course, isn’t the fault of Scotland, the SNP or even any other political party in Scotland (bar perhaps Slabour). It is, quite simply, the fault of an ingrained ideology that has lead to, not only just Scots, but everyone outside of the London / SE bubble being treated like dirt and held back because the only people of value to the British establishment, are the public school educated haw-haws we see helping David Cameron get his freak on in Westminster today.

    I can’t promise I’ll be back anytime soon, a wife and house are testament to that, but after we get a Yes vote, I think my wife better get ready for a long hard chat about our future!

  10. beachthistle says:

    I agree that the “More Job Opportunities” is the lie, thought that the first time I saw the ad.

    As someone who had to leave Scotland in the mid-1980s after graduating in order to find a job/get off the dole, it is one of my main reasons for voting Yes – so my daughter doesn’t have to do the same (although of course fine if she wants to, it’s just the ‘have to’ I am against).

    One employment benefit of a Yes vote that isn’t mentioned much is the jobs that will be created with the establishment of new Embassies and Delegations. As an indicator of how many there might be, Dublin hosts 53.
    http://www.dublin.info/embassies/

    Obviously the top jobs will generally be taken by nationals of the countries whose Embassies they are, but there will be many opportunities for locals re support and back-room jobs. (As well as employment benefits there will be office and housing market impacts, more trade for local restaurants and shops, and lots of ad hoc work for Scottish lawyers and other professional services).

  11. Mary Bruce says:

    Better Together’s previous tagline, “the only way to keep the pound is to vote no” was a total and utter lie too, yet it remained as a banner on their website and facebook page for months and was on 500,000 of their leaflets according to themselves.

    Who in their right mind would want to remain tied to a nation that lies to its own people with such ease?

  12. Benjamin Rae says:

    That guy trolled me on twitter recently. Jumped into a conversation that was nothing to do with him and started throwing insults. Don’t think he’s the sharpest tool in the box

  13. Robert Louis says:

    So, to be clear, better together fully know that what most people think of as ‘more powers’ in return for a NO vote, is powers in addition to those silly powers which have already been agreed in the utterly useless Scotland act of 2 years ago.

    So, what we have then is better together effectively lying. Although on a technicality they may say the Scotland act of 2012 gives ‘more powers’, THEY, and everybody else knows they are being disingenuous.

    What a corrupt bunch better together have become. Now they resort to lying on advertising posters, such is their collective inability to produce a good rational case for the union with England. First they threatened Scots, then they tried to scare Scots, then they tried to bully Scots, and now they just lie.

    Seriously, in any other country of the world, such lying and deception to the detriment of a nation’s population, would have the protagonists run out of town, or worse. What a truly pathetic scurrilous bunch.

  14. Robert Louis says:

    Of course this could be added to the better together lie, that staying in the UK, Scotland will benefit from the UK’s triple A credit rating, when in fact the UK no longer has a triple A rating.

    They are liars.

  15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m getting a 404 on the images, RevStu.”

    Seems to be a problem afflicting SOME Firefox users, but not all. Other browsers are fine. Looking into it.

  16. Annibale says:

    Taranaich – Think of them as “Aye” lashes and they don’t seem so superfluous!

  17. gordoz says:

    Rev :

    Im sure that this will feature on Scotland Tonight and Newsnight Scotland.

    It has to if the journalists are doing there jobs professionally.

    (Alas for other reasons we know it won’t)

  18. gordoz says:

    Puts me in mind of that old ‘Thomson Twins’ song …

    How does it go again; Ahh Yes –

    Lies, Lies , Lies yeah !!!!

  19. heedtracker says:

    You want to see the Press and Journal, christ these nutters are on UKOK fire with Hammond on tour today promising Moray huge new military bettertogether jobs bonanza if we vote no. Or completely pretending, lying about the fact that same UKOK reprobates stood for election promising exact same assurances, guarantees, promises but then closed RAF Kinloss and Leuchars and reneged on big central belt investment for returning German based Scots army. Keep saying it but if we do fall for this UKOK scam we deserve everything we get.

  20. Arbroath 1320 says:

    There is only one thing guaranteed by that poster and it is the fact that Better Together are a laughing stock. They bemoan the fact that the YES camp, apparently, have loads of money whilst they, BT, have very little. Yet at the same time time the put out garbage like this which most folks can see as just another failed attempt to lie to the population in a vain and desperate hope to swing the odd voter back towards NO.

    I tell you they really must be having some horrendous nightmares in BTHQ if this is the best they can do. 🙂

  21. Les Wilson says:

    O/T for all the doorstep Yessers out there, who will have had an occasional disappointment. Here is an article on how the FBI change people’s minds and turn them to their way of thinking. Read the first bit to see, more info available via the link. Maybe it will work for you.

    http://thecrux.com/six-hostage-negotiation-techniques-that-will-get-you-what-you-want/

  22. Murray McCallum says:

    With regard jobs, maybe that is what “The Clunking Fist” is next coming to Scotland to talk about – “British jobs for Scottish workers”, or some other meaningless, hollow and anti-immigrant statement?

    At least the 2012 Act enables us to create a navy, albeit one with dinghies manned with air gun wielding enthusiasts. Russian fleet take note.

  23. farrochie says:

    The Scottish Parliament’s powers are defined by Westminster. The “reserved matters” in the Scotland Act 1998 define the limitations in detail.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/schedule/5

    Unless the NO parties intend to transfer specific “reserved matters” to Scotland, then their talk of more powers is meaningless.

  24. Jamie Arriere says:

    Voting Yes not only gives us the best of both worlds as regards job opportunities (as companies which want to trade here have to set up a legal presence), but also protects us from the worst of the other world.

  25. farrochie says:

    Interestingly, the Scotland Act 2012 removes a power from Scotland, by adding “L7 Antarctica” to the list of reserved matters in the 1998 Act.

  26. MajorBloodnok says:

    @farrochie

    I expect Westminster took back Antarctica so they had somewhere to deport the poles to.

  27. GF says:

    This constant stream of lies, mistruths and nonsense from Bitter Together doesn’t half get tiring, eh? If/when we win this thing in September, the patience of every single person on the Yes campaign, no matter how small their role is, should be rewarded with a sainthood.

  28. TJenny says:

    farrochie – I thought that WM had, probably by mistake, allowed this to be controlled by Holyrood. Are you saying that this situation has now been rectified to be back under WM control by the SA 2012? Under independence would this revert back to Scottish control under maritime law?

  29. SquareHaggis says:

    MORE – MRE = O

    Navy blue pens to the ready 🙂

  30. chalks says:

    I find it interesting they haven’t said ‘Vote No’ on it….bunch of idiots.

  31. Molly says:

    Heedtracker
    Have any of the journalists from The P and J had the temerity yet to ask Philip Hammond how he has the brass neck to appear in a Country , where only a couple if weeks ago , he forgot to inform the public about the radiation leak?

  32. Big Jock says:

    More job opportunities in London! Positive campaign…I give it a week! The train has already left the station and it aint coming back. In a few weeks Yes will be ahead.

  33. heedtracker says:

    Hi Molly, P&J gets more Project Fear by the day but have any of the “journalists” from The P and J ever asked the far right freak show that currently owns Scotland anything at all? Usually they’re merely savaging Scottish green energy, monstering Holyrood, the SNP and Alex Salmond all the while prostrating themselves at the feet of the royals, the ConDems and Alistair the Flipper Darling.

    This is the same newspaper that provided pseuds such as Sir Michael Gove and Lord Jim Naughty with a spring board big enough to ejaculate themselves over humanity.

  34. Illy says:

    “Conversely, a Yes vote won’t disqualify a single Scot from getting a job in the rUK that they could get now.”

    You’re wrong on that point.

    I severly doubt that after independance a Scot would be able to get any of the MoD jobs that they don’t let Americans have.

    And there’s probably a lot of folk looking to join their own nation’s army, who won’t be able to after independance (because the SDF probably won’t be hiring nearly as much as the UK Army) Not that that should be much of a problem once we get our social security system sorted out.

  35. Gillie says:

    “political advertisers abide by the fundamental principle in the existing advertising code – that adverts should be prepared with ‘a sense of responsibility to consumers and society'”

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-reviews-and-research/the-electoral-commission-publishes-report-on-political-advertising

  36. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    I severly doubt that after independance a Scot would be able to get any of the MoD jobs that they don’t let Americans have.

    yes for sure, the confidence we will get from not getting mod jobs will spur scots on to greater things like better spelling which of course will lead to the confidence you portray.

  37. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Illy

    I am sure that the British army will accept any Scots that want to join it, as they always have. Or will Scots be excluded in preference to Samoans or Irish?

    And as Scotland will be in the EU and presumably the rUK will be too, Scots can’t legally be denied access to rUK jobs in future.

    Further, there will be lots of jobs created in an independent Scotland – replacing those that are currently done on our behalf in the rUK and for which we are already paying. The money will just be spent here, rather than in London, which is surely a good thing.

  38. Doug says:

    “Conversely, a Yes vote won’t disqualify a single Scot from getting a job in the rUK that they could get now.”

    You’re wrong on that point.

    I severly doubt that after independance a Scot would be able to get any of the MoD jobs that they don’t let Americans have.

    And there’s probably a lot of folk looking to join their own nation’s army, who won’t be able to after independance (because the SDF probably won’t be hiring nearly as much as the UK Army) Not that that should be much of a problem once we get our social security system sorted out.”

    Firstly, pedantry: SEVERELY, INDEPENDENCE.

    Secondly, the SDF would be significantly increased in numbers vs our ‘share’ of the British forces. As well as this, numbers based in Scotland, with consequent spending in local communities and tax revenues etc, would increase from ~11000 to ~15000.

    As to the implied ‘everyone will be unemployed’ – my sides are splitting.

  39. Caroline Corfield says:

    Illy, out of curiosity does the MOD employ people who have dual nationality in roles that they don’t employ those holding only a foreign passport such as Americans? Because after independence Scots will be able to hold dual passport, Scottish Passport or rUK passports, and for the lifetime of rUK’s membership of the EU, those who retain their rUK passport will be able to retain or apply for jobs in the MOD as per anybody else with an rUK passport. (I actually know of someone with an Irish and UK passport who worked for the MOD on their surveying ships as a crew member). The only way that this would change is if the rUK passed a law forbidding dual nationality, or created rules that forbid dual nationals holding posts in the MOD, which would affect not just Scots holding dual passports but all nationals holding dual passports.

    The problem with trying to suggest that Scotland would be singled out is that it is not easy to do in the modern integrated world, especially to somewhere already very integrated. You could do it to North Korea because they remain purposefully isolationist. You could do it to Iran for a while, Libya for a while, but even then companies and individuals sought to undermine sanctions, and most countries agreed with the sanctions.

    Who is going to agree with the kinds of things some unionists are suggesting will or ought to happen to an independent Scotland?

  40. chalks says:

    Caroline Corfield

    Good question, one no voter is voting no because he’ll have to go into a ‘defence force’ rather than an army

  41. Big Jock says:

    Yes there would be job losses. The 50 useless labour mp’s currently keeping the pub benches warm in Westminster would all be on the dole. Hoorah! Bye Alastair…

  42. MajorBloodnok says:

    It’s amazing how unionists cannot hide their glee at the anticipation of all the bad things that will happen to Scotland when we vote for independence. There is probably a medical term for it.

  43. Gin says:

    As with the “Powers” part, as long as interpreted carefully (from the correct point of view), the assertion “MORE JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR US AS PART OF THE UK” can also be true.

    This is not from the point of view of the reader, as might be assumed, but “US” means the members of the Scottish Affairs Committee and HoL in Westminster.

    Solved … simple!

  44. Alba4Eva says:

    I just looked at the poster and read the line about the lies… there are 2 aren’t there?

    The first is about ‘Us’… meaning more jobs for unionist MP’s… the second is obvious.

    …lets see if im right… back in a mo.

  45. Roll_On_2014 says:

    More Job Opportunities – For us as part of the UK

    FFS since the ConDems came to power in 2010 80% of new private sector jobs are in London, whilst the rest of the UK, North of the Watford Gap, have to scrabble about for the other 20%.

    For those on this site who are not into, or out of their depth when economics is raised, like me, here is a Vid that offers a simple and understandable explanation of Guideons UK Ponzi scheme and a possible better alternative.

  46. Bill Johnston says:

    Togetherists their interests so vested
    And Poor Truth for so long molested
    Their deceit and deception near the point of perfection
    If t’were my call they’d ALL be arrested

  47. David says:

    Better Together’s motto – “Lying is my business, and business is good!”

  48. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Rev Stu I have just submitted a comment but it has disappeared ??

  49. Roll_On_2014 says:

    I tried to submit it again but it came up with ‘duplicate submission’.

  50. Alba4Eva says:

    Haha. you’re thinking, although very valid Stu, was completely different from mine…

    Quote you; “The lie, of course, is the other half of the poster ‘MORE JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR US AS PART OF THE UK’ simply isn’t true on any level.”

    …it is true though isn’t it? Just a definition of who ‘Us’is! 😉

  51. Muscleguy says:

    @Beachthistle
    I have pointed out to my eldest who, with her partner, is in the restaurant business in Edinburgh that a Yes vote will be good for them as diplomats are great eaters out as well as employers of caterers in.

    Just one small fear addressed. I’m not sure how effective it was, the correspondence ceased at that point.

  52. BuckieBraes says:

    Yes indeed: just remove the picture of the fresh-faced young couple on the left and replace it with an image of Ian Davidson and Margaret Curran (or mix and match from a selection of other Westminster chancers), and the whole ‘more job opportunities’ statement makes perfect sense.

  53. MajorBloodnok says:

    Did I read somewhere that the couple featured in the advert are actually fully paid up Labour student activists masquerading as normal people?

  54. Alba4Eva says:

    Buckiebraes… please someone photoshop that… along with the word ‘quarantined’ instead of ‘guaranteed’

    🙂

  55. Clarinda says:

    MajorBloodnok at 4.42
    – can’t find a precise medical term without recourse to examining pond-life but …. surely their genetic anti-Scotland Schadenfreude will turn to Freudenschade come the 19th September?

  56. Clootie says:

    “Anyone who doesn’t take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”

    Albert Einstein

  57. CameronB says:

    @ Better Together
    Got any policy proposals for Scotland’s future, yet? When are you publishing them then?

  58. Peter A Bell says:

    The “more powers – guaranteed” statement is a lie in that its purpose is to deceive.

  59. kininvie says:

    @beachthistle

    Embassies will certainly employ locally engaged staff, but the best jobs will go to those who are bi-lingual or tri-lingual. So, get going on those French/Italian/Chinese evening classes :))

    Oh, and anyone with a couple of million to spare might be well advised to buy up property in Royal and Regent Terraces in Edinburgh (which is where most of the consulates currently are). Could be a winner.

    I hope Edinburgh Council are setting aside suitable sites for rUK and the US to build nice shiny new embassies – actually, knowing them, they probably haven’t even thought about it!

  60. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Clarinda

    Something based on ‘schadenfreude’ was exactly what I was thinking, along the lines of:

    Anticipatory Schadenfreude Syndrome (ASS) (otherwise known as premature gleejaculation).

  61. Andy-B says:

    You’re doing a good job Rev, dissecting those BT leaflets, showing them for what they really are. Unfortunately those who don’t read your work, may be none the wiser, pity.

  62. kalmar says:

    No Firefox / image problems here.

    Wings is leaking into the real world, folks: I was in Largs this lunchtime, and found a lovely wee car flying a saltire on a stick on the roof, festooned with Wings bumper stickers! Aricht, fess up, wha wis it? 😀

    Possibly related: since when did they make stainless steel EYELASHES for cars? Madness.

    I’d LOVE me a sticky-backed stainless steel rat emblem.

  63. TD says:

    Rev – what do you expect them to do instead of lying? They don’t have any sound arguments baced by facts so they have to, literally, make it up as they go along. If I was a No campaigner (and let me stress I am not) I would have no choice but to resort to these tactics. We should expect no less and not be shocked by it. But of course we must expose it and you do a better job than most of that.

  64. Flower of Scotland says:

    O/t

    The Courier has published today all the places that their Referendum bus is travelling to in the next few months . There will be People from Yes and No sides , and they are going to lots of villages! Got my date and am going to arm myself with my written reply about Labours Dev Plans from my MSP. He thought I might not be able to send this to you Rev, but I knew it would come in handy sometime!

    People! It might be worth a wee visit!

  65. liz says:

    Been in Edinburgh for a couple of days and just catching up.

    The revelations about JoLa and the NE newspaper is truly gobsmacking – just when you think she can’t get any more stupid.

    What they are hoping is that most folk don’t read politics constantly like us on here.

    Went to visit the Holyrood parliament and signed Margot’s book of remembrance book, it was very moving.

    What made me mad, though, was that The Scotsman ‘newspaper’ offices are directly opposite the parliament building and you’d think they should be supportive of it and backing it up instead of the opposite.

  66. caz-m says:

    Marcia posted this brilliant piece by Gerry Hassan in the last post.

    It explains where it is all going so wrong for Better Together.

    http://www.gerryhassan.com/uncategorized/george-robertson-and-the-scots-crisis-of-unionism/

    C’mon Gerry just say YES, you know you want to.

  67. Andrew Morton says:

    We’ve got them over a barrel on Trident and now we appear to have them over a different barrel on the aircraft carriers.

    https://twitter.com/andrewgmorton/status/456800217174532098

  68. Croompenstein says:

    Amateurs…they missed the ‘It’s good to be part of something bigger’ after the best of both worlds shite at the bottom.

    O/T on Disreporting Scotland, apparently the wind all over Scotland last night was a steady 25mph which caused the wind turbines to put to much electricity in the grid and this caused the power outage in the North and islands. Holy Fuck see that Alicsammin and his turbines!!

  69. TYRAN says:

    Scotland is a dumping ground for their big boys toys. Without them they cannot parade around like big shots on the world stage. It’s like boasting about big penis sizes from maggots.

  70. MajorBloodnok says:

    O/T

    I don’t now if you all saw this but this is the STUC’s verdict on Johann Lamont’s answers to their questions at their recent conference.

    http://www.stuc.org.uk/news/1079/stuc-response-to-johann-lamont-speech-to-stuc-congress

    I particularly liked this bit, which was also quoted in the BBC report:

    “However, it was notable that her answers to referendum questions on reserved Westminster policy such as Trident, employment rights, public spending cuts and Labour’s support for the Coalition’s Benefit Cap, appeared insufficient to convinced our delegates that the current policies of the UK Labour Party will be sufficient to achieve our social justice ambitions for Scotland should there be a no vote in the referendum.

    “Johann’s expressed preference for a separate Scottish currency under independence was interesting. While a separate currency may offer considerable economic freedom longer term it would inevitably mean a period of austerity at least as severe as that currently being pursued by the Coalition.”


    Taxi for Johann!

  71. HorseHead says:

    My last job before this latest economic crash 2008, was managing small fleet of Offshore Oilfield DiveShips for Emerites owners, in the Gulf of Mexico and South West Africa, from our Aberdeen office.

    Our management contract with PEMEX Mexico National Oil Company required us to employ and train Mexican Nationals, in junior management positions and crews, to win the contract in the Mexican’s southern Gulf of Mexico out of Ciudad del Carmen.

    With our Diveship working in America’s northern Gulf of Mexico out of New Orleans, we were involved in subsea oil wellhead hookups. We had a huge wall map of American Gulf seabed and it was festooned with subsea oil wellheads. Oil production will be around for 100’s of years!

    American onshore oil production has been going for 150+years, since a Scottish James Paraffin Young refined the first oil in 1850’s. American onshore oil production has thousands of Nodding Donkey’s(PumpJack) extracting from onshore oilwells, again will do so for 100’s of years!

    American Gas Fracking is booming and in USA, the landowner has the rights to the oils/minerals under his land. In the British Union the oils/minerals underground is owned by the Crown! Highway robbery.

    Our Diveship out of Capetown, South Africa on a PetroSA (SouthAfrica National Oil company) contracts required employment and training South African nationals, in junior and crew positions.

    Oil is not going to run out in 20year, or even 100year. Oils been coming out of the ground since pre historic Sabre Tooth Tigers found preserved in Californian tar pits.

    Oil been coming out of the ground in the Russian Caucasus’s since the beginning of time.

    In 20years, I predict 1000’s of underwater subsea Tidal Turbines will start appearing in the Outer Inner Hebrides from Orkney to Arran, in every minch, narrows and off all headlands.

    Scottish Power are now laying a subsea power cable from Hunterston Power station on Clyde to Liverpool’s Merseyside Wirral to supply Scots Renewable Electricity to the south. The same is planned for the east coast by Scottish Hydro Electric from Peterhead power station to Newcastle /Teeside.

    This is our great YES future. vote YES for your children.

  72. Paula Rose says:

    @ Jim Watson 1:59

    The poast is toast.

  73. scottish_skier says:

    BP putting £600 million into Sullom Voe.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-27070041

    BP’s regional president for the North Sea Trevor Garlick said the investment would secure the terminal for at least another 30 years.

  74. seanair says:

    Liz
    The Scotsman won’t be there much longer. I think the building was built by the Barclay Brothers for the Scotsman but of course they don’t own the Scotsman now,
    Presumably the lease has expired, and a gaming company is taking over. Perhaps the Scotsman with its ever-decreasing circulation couldn’t afford to pay the rent. They are now looking for a cheaper HQ in Edinburgh, maybe a wee shed in Wester Hailes.
    Anyway you won’t be troubled by their sign when next you visit our Parliament. Ironic isn’t it that a paper which has done so much to demean Scotland was so near to our Parly.

  75. Andrew Morton says:

    surprisingly objective and well informed foreign piece.

    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/be-prepared-independent-scotland-10246

  76. HandandShrimp says:

    Andrew

    That was an intelligent and balanced article. It is encouraging to see that there are people out there that can see past the nonsense that has passed for debate in the UK papers.

  77. SquareHaggis says:

    Great find Andrew.

  78. Croompenstein says:

    Good read Andrew, should forward it to Cochrane, Crichton et al to see how a balanced piece should be written

  79. Morag says:

    Salmond has given both the administrations of George W. Bush and Barack Obama fits, first by opposing the U.S. invasion of Iraq eleven years ago, and more recently by his government’s decision in 2009 to free Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, on the basis of compassionate grounds, from Scottish prison. Megrahi was convicted in 2001 on murder charges and sentenced to life imprisonment in relation to the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988. Megrahi moved back to Libya, where he lived nearly three more years. The decision earned a stern rebuke from Obama himself, and the incident further strained U.S. relations with Salmond’s government.

    Several US articles have contained similar passages, almost as a throwaway. What are the likely consequences going to be of further developments leading to the acceptance that Megrahi had nothing to do with blowing up that plane, I wonder?

  80. caz-m says:

    @HorseHead

    Some fascinating stats there about the oil that has still to be extracted from the ground.

    During your travels, did you ever hear of oil being discovered in the Firth of Clyde region and then capped because the Royal Navy didn’t want to be sailing through oilfields.

  81. caz-m says:

    Andrew Morton

    Disgraceful that we have to travel to another continent to find a review regarding Scottish Independence that has a positive message.

  82. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Andrew Morton

    We’ll let them off that they said that Scotland had never had a parliament until Devolution ,and reference to the ‘Act of Union’, when of course it was a Treaty. Apart from that, quite an objective analysis.

  83. RogueCoder says:

    Excellent article and a good find, Andrew. How refreshing to read a news piece NOT full of doom and gloom or threats, but a balanced and generally positive piece about Scotland taking its place among the world’s nations.

    I’ve long thought that if Scotland voted for independence we would see a massive hike in tourism, especially from America. Scotland has rediscovered its potential and pride as a nation, and I think we’ll see a huge resurgence of confidence not just among Scots, but other nationalities living in Scotland, and Scots descendants abroad. I now think that – and hope – it will extend even further and we’ll see a lot of Scots returning home wanting to take part in building a new vibrant, positive and progressive nation.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear that an independent Scotland will have a lot of goodwill from the continent and overseas. The relationship with America is an important one historically, culturally and economically, and whilst we don’t always see eye to eye – mostly when the Republicans get their hands on power – it’s clear that in a post-Yes world we’ll have the support of a US administration.

    Here’s to “Scottish mania” sweeping the globe!!

  84. john king says:

    Kininvie says
    “I hope Edinburgh Council are setting aside suitable sites for rUK and the US to build nice shiny new embassies – actually, knowing them, they probably haven’t even thought about it!”

    They’ll probably get roond tae it when they’ve decided who’s names will be enshrined in perpetuity on the front of the trams.

  85. Ian Brotherhood says:

    re the Kevin Lees article.

    How about a WOS-sponsored lecture, in somewhere tasteful, where the man can give a more detailed exposition of his thoughts, and we could make sure all the usual BT/SLab suspects are invited? (They wouldn’t attend, obviously, for fear they might learn something about journalism and objectivity.)

    We know how to get crowds, publicity, livestream etc – we could do it if we wanted to.

  86. Croompenstein says:

    @RogueCoder

    Here’s to “Scottish mania” sweeping the globe!!

    Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

  87. caz-m says:

    @Harry

    That is what I was looking for. But if the Scottish Government know of this potential oil boom off the Clyde coast, then why aren’t they telling us.

    The Ayrshire coast is an unemployment black spot, so surely this is a win win situation for the SNP/YES Campaign when it comes to votes FOR Independence.

    It still puzzles me, why are the Scottish Government not playing this right up for all it’s worth.

  88. Murray McCallum says:

    30 million Scottish Americans. Sounds like a potentially noisy lobby.

  89. caz-m says:

    @Croompenstein

    “Scottish Mania”

    Bay City Rollers conquered the globe years ago with

    “Rollermania”

  90. TheItalianJob says:

    @Horse Head at 7.37pm and
    @scottish_skier at 7.51pm

    Norwegian Statoil is the world’s eleventh largest oil and gas company and the twenty-sixth largest company, regardless of industry, by profit in the world. The company has about 23,000 employees. As of 2013, the Government of Norway is the largest shareholder in Statoil with 67% of the shares, while the rest is public stock.

    Seven hundred new jobs have been confirmed by offshore firm Statoil after it selected a new UK North Sea head office in Aberdeen.

    The Prime Four business park base will be the operations centre for developing the Mariner field, creating 200 onshore and 500 offshore jobs.

    The Mariner field is about 150km (93 miles) east of Shetland.

    Statoil expects to start production from Mariner in 2017 and the field is expected to produce for 30 years.

    bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-26970409

    Does anyone remember our Scottish oil company set up as BNOC, by the then Labour government in the late 70’s with HQ in Glasgow. It was then privitised as Britoil then sold off to BP by Maggie Thatcher. The idea was to have a Scottish oil company with a HQ in Glasgow. When BP bought them they pledged to keep the office in Glasgow, now long since gone along with the highly paid jobs. A great number of Britoil’s assets are now being currently developed west of Shetland by BP and other oil companies, hence the requirement to upgrade the Sullom Voe terminal.

  91. Paula Rose says:

    Of course on independence, for many people in England they will be able to go on a foreign holiday without having to leave the British Isles.

  92. Harry says:

    caz-m

    I know what you mean, there is that, the McCrone report, the £127 a minute stuff that was on business for scotland website, I would be shouting stuff like this from the rooftops. I sometimes wonder if it’s worth me making the effort delivering the Yes papers and if, deep down, the SNP want this enough. Maybe they have big plans for nearer the event. The next edition should be interesting, I hope they ratch it up a notch instead of vague stuff like £600 Indy Bonus with not one fact to back it up.

  93. TheItalianJob says:

    @Andrew Morton

    Brilliant find and a very good read. Very balanced article on Independence, from a US journal surprise, surprise, with a warning too on the pitfalls if not managed well which I don’t think will happen given how well the SG has done so far.

    Where will the MSM pick this article up and report it. As usual it will be lost in time to them but not to us.

  94. Thepnr says:

    Have you looked closely recently at you friends, neighbours or colleagues? Do you really bring up the Independence debate with them or like me, say very little unless you feel your in the right comfort zone?

    I wonder too, because it is not always noticeable, other than loud mouths the majority have a tendency to “keep themselves to themselves”.

    I know I do, in fact I’m a little ashamed that I don’t make wearing my heart of my sleeve so much more obvious, that I might leave no one in any doubt as to my intentions come the referendum vote.

    I wonder why this may be and have to admit it is fear of either ridicule, abuse or something worse that prevents you from openly stating your beliefs.

    Don’t get me wrong, if an opportunity arises then I am in there with the arguments and positive reasons why we should vote Yes. The issue is, I can wait a long time for that opportunity and they are few and far between.

    I have a Yes car sticker and a LFI one yet have not affixed them to the windscreen, I have badges that have yet to be worn in public. I keep telling myself “I’ll do it when the time is right”.

    I’ve decided for me at least that time is now.

    I no longer care about ridicule, which I don’t think will be coming, I no longer care about abuse, which I don’t think will be coming.

    I only care about getting a result that will benefit our country and our people. I intend to wear my heart on my sleeve from this moment, I hope many of you will too.

  95. RogueCoder says:

    @harry @caz-m
    I recall a similar conversation over Christmas dinner with the family. I think it boils down to picking your battles. If Alec has shouted more about McCrone, I suspect Westminster would have accused him of “living in the past” and probably found a way to discredit the original report – trotting out some new “expert analysis” or some such. Or possibly is was just about keeping the campaign positive.

    I confess to knowing very little about NS oil and considerably less about Clyde oil, except that there’s been talk of it for years. Maybe Alec didn’t think he was on strong ground because he felt there hadn’t been sufficient research – who knows? Only the man himself. He was an oil economist for years, so certainly he must know more than he’s letting on. Maybe he’s keeping his power dry for later in the campaign.

  96. Croompenstein says:

    I asked one of the guys at work today who I have been chipping away at if he was voting yes and he confirmed he will be voting yes..yeeha. I’ve got a few converts under my belt but there are still those who refuse to listen so still work to do, but my yes sticker is on the car and my wristband on I’ll keep trying as hard as I can, and contribute to fundraisers when and where I can.

  97. Paula Rose says:

    @ Thepnr – watch the person behind the checkout’s face as they clock your badge and then give you a beaming smile rather than the one they are trained to make.

  98. Alba4Eva says:

    Thepnr… get yer badges on, stick yer car stickers where the sun shines and stop bein’ a fanny. LOL

    In all seriousness, for every negative comment, I get 3 or 4 smiles and nods. Well worth it. Get the same with my ‘Aye Right’ cards too 🙂

    Get to it.

  99. Illy says:

    I was under the impression that there are some MoD jobs that they will only accept UK citizens for, under the excuse of “national security”.

    I wasn’t aware that they weren’t allowed to do that to EU citizens, but I do know that there are some jobs that Americans can’t get.

    (I’d also not thought about dual-nationality stuff, I was under the impression that the UK didn’t like it, but I might have been getting it confused with America there)

  100. Croompenstein says:

    O/T Stu when are you going to get David Torrance to do an ATL piece 🙂

  101. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Paula Rose says:
    @ Thepnr – watch the person behind the checkout’s face as they clock your badge and then give you a beaming smile rather than the one they are trained to make.

    Tip: When you get the badge-related beaming smile, hand them an “Aye Right” card, and ask them to please spread The Word.

  102. RogueCoder says:

    “I soon realised that news sources I thought were basically impartial, just weren’t. I’ve been a lifelong supporter of the BBC but the bias towards the No campaign has been shocking.”

    Not familiar with her work, but I like her already 🙂

  103. Morag says:

    O/T Stu when are you going to get David Torrance to do an ATL piece 🙂

    The 20th of Never, I hope. Poisonous little man.

  104. Croompenstein says:

    It’s becoming apparent that Mr Torrance is a wolf in sheep’s clothing 😈

  105. Jim T says:

    @Alba4Eva & @Calgacus MacAndrews

    where do you guys get your Aye Right “cards”?

    I can get thousands of the leaflets but have still not found a source for the business cards.

  106. willie fae Kilwinning says:

    How can I get some “aye right” cards. Oh, and some wings stickers for my car.

    PS, keep up the great work folks, (and Stu).

  107. Cymru Rydd says:

    Watching the Referendum unfold from here in Wales is absolutely fascinating.

    I had always thought that a long campaign( over two years in essence) was the YES campaign’s best chance since that would provide an opportunity to fully air the relevant issues amongst the voters of Scotland. Engineering a situation where such a long campaign has been accepted by the electorate- with no real disaffection about this fact- has been a masterstroke in itself from the SNP. But a quite separate masterstroke has also evidenced itself over the course of the referendum,( and this was also surely anticipated by the SNP) i.e that the NO campaign would almost unthinkingly illuminate some of the main themes of YES.

    What strikes me forcefully is that the NO campaign seems quite unable to disentangle themselves from the mentality of empire in setting out their narrative, and I would hazard a guess that this is something that just cannot be changed now. It’s all about the loss of clout, the loss of standing, the loss of prestige on the world stage for Britain( England). Scotland itself appears a mere afterthought to this existential threat to the British state.

    All this plays terribly badly in Scotland, since it just reeks of arrogance and imperial delusion. Such a worldview grates here in Wales, so I can only imagine how Scots are feeling about it. But NO just can’t help themselves. It’s who they are and what they stand for in essence.

    In theory, a nuanced NO position, drawing its main inspiration from a Scottish perspective could have been imagined. Scotland’s amazing history and contribution in so many fields on a wider level both within the UK and further afield could have been highlighted and celebrated. A NO campaign could have been fashioned with Scottish sensibilities in mind. But, in practice, this was never going to happen. It was just beyond the imagination of the British State.

    To have both the YES campaign and NO campaign reinforcing the SNP’s core message about the reality of Scotland’s position within this “union” has to be a first in the history of independence referendums! Is there really any doubt about the final result with such a convergence?

  108. BuckieBraes says:

    I’ve yet to receive a badge-related beaming smile at a supermarket checkout, or anywhere else. Mind you, maybe I try too hard to prompt people by saying nothing but assuming a Mr Bean-like rictus, which possibly puts them off.

  109. Croompenstein says:

    @Cymru Rydd – Very well said, we Celts are just different, they just don’t get us and that is their achiles heel 😀

  110. TheItalianJob says:

    @Cymru Rydd

    What a brilliant summary on the debate so far from a “neutral” observer.

  111. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Alba4eva/Calgacus, mentioning the Aye Right card reminds me. Do you know who is printing these. Have spoken to Gavin and he is doing the A6 leaflets. Can you or anyone else point me to the “cardmaker”

  112. ronnie anderson says:

    @Cymru Rydd, And you,s Welsh cousin’s are getting a front

    row seat & a free practice run for Welsh Independence dont

    you just love,an weil wire intae the fray in support of

    the Welsh people, hurry up.

  113. Croompenstein says:

    O/T News at Ten announce NASA have found a new earth like planet Kepler 186F. After the Hammond shuffle I’m thinking that these f*ckers know something we don’t!

  114. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It would be relatively easy to completely adapt that leaflet into one supporting independence. “More jobs brought home to Scotland” “More powers guaranteed only by Independence”
    “Best of all worlds – the Commomewealth – the EU – The United Nations”

  115. Paula Rose says:

    More job opportunities & power for Scotland – vote Yes, simples.

  116. Croompenstein says:

    I think Mr Hothersall should be watching Scotland Tonight and listening to Bob Thomson, Frank Macaveety tried the smear on Labour for indy..shot doon and owned by Bob

  117. RogueCoder says:

    @Croompenstein
    News at Ten announce NASA have found a new earth like planet Kepler 186F

    Does it have oil? Maybe Westminster can form a Union with them 😀

  118. tartanarse says:

    Rogue coder at 9.39

    ” McCrone, I suspect Westminster would have accused him of “living in the past” and probably found a way to discredit the original report – trotting out some new “expert analysis” or some such”

    Rogue, they went one better than that and actually got Mcrone to say that he did in fact write a load of pish.

    So pish they hid it for 30 years.

    They didn’t anticipate the internet,

  119. Thepnr says:

    Labour for indy is another part of the grassroots campaign. A very important part that just might help get rid of Labour as we know it in Scotland.

    I have no respect now for Labour and would only consider voting for them if they returned to their roots as LFI advocate.

    What does the Labour party stand for now? More austerity, a leader who admires Thatcher. They have lost their soul…and me and thousands like me.

  120. Croompenstein says:

    @RogueCoder – LOL yeh! they will want the Kepler 186F’s to fight their intergalactic war and they can zoom into battle to the skirl of the ? whatever they have for bagpipes.

  121. ronnie anderson says:

    Duncan Hootananny LFI a front for SNP, dizzna take long fur

    the Unionist journalist the start smearing.

  122. dramfineday says:

    BuckieBraes @ 10.15 pm

    Anent: “badge-related beaming smile”

    “I try too hard to prompt people by saying nothing but assuming a Mr Bean-like rictus, which possibly puts them off.”

    Ha,ha,ha, I enjoyed that BB…………I’ve been using a line with my YES compatriots that I picked up on “Quirky Nats” (a website that was pre Newsnet and is now defunct)
    one of the contributors had a sign off, that I thought was enjoyable, “smile it confuses the baskets” (well it was slightly stronger than that but you get the drift!).

  123. Tam Jardine says:

    Thepnr

    Good on you – I get where you are coming from. I come from a presbyterian background where money, politics and such like are not really discussed in public never mind displaying political affiliation.

    Although it does feel a little like I am displaying my genitals in public I have stuck my cool wee Yes badge on my coat and anyone who don’t like it can go bile their heid.

    Was thinking today in terms of Texas Hold’em… the No side have been bluffing from the start with their refusal to have devo-max on the ballot paper and it’s been bluff, bullshit and play acting ever since through the currency union, all the time with the stakes and threats ramping up.

    All that shite is coming to an end and we’re going ALL-IN. Everything is piled up on the table for ourselves and future generations: prosperity, eradicating poverty, improvements in infrastructure, inward investment, improved exports, renewable, oil, gas, water, land redistribution, an end to discrimination in all forms, an end to unelected governments, and a vast reservoir of goodwill from all around the world.

    We just have to hold our nerve. Westminster have gone all-in as well and both sides have much to loose.

    Stick with the badge mate (and the great posts). I’m with you.

  124. tartanarse says:

    Cymru Rydd

    Post 18 Sept can I recommend that you hire a Campbell for your new online source of information WOW. WingsoverWales.

    Sorry to tout on your behalf Rev but what are you going to do in late Sept?

  125. RogueCoder says:

    Rev highlighting Labour maiming themselves again on Twitter 😀

    Christ, we don’t even have to do anything anymore, they’re like lemmings jumping off a cliff. I almost feel sorry for them.

    Almost.

    Hey, how’s our 10,000 flags going – anybody got an update?

  126. Murray McCallum says:

    If it’s that easy to set up a “front” why don’t Scottish Labour set up SNP for Dependence?

  127. MajorBloodnok says:

    Croompenstein says: It’s becoming apparent that Mr Torrance is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    You over-estimate Torrance: I just see him as a slimey pseudo-intellectual shite in big glasses.

  128. Croompenstein says:

    @tartanarse – that would be DWOW – Dragon Wings Over Wales 🙂

  129. Croompenstein says:

    @MajorBloodnok – Just LOL 😛

  130. caz-m says:

    @Paula Rose
    “watch the person behind the checkout’s face as they clock your badge and then give you a beaming smile rather than the one they are trained to make”.

    A kin beat that wan,

    Sittin in a jaquzzi today at a my local gym with two strangers. All I had on was my YES wristband-and pair of shorts-and the female noticed the wristband and confirmed to me she was also a YES voter, then the male overheard us and he also said he would be voting YES.

    Moral of the story is, always keep your YES wristband on, no matter where you are, people do notice them.

    Yes badges and stickers are also a must, as I mentioned yesterday, I really love being stuck at traffic lights now and everybody sees my YES car stickers.

    YES is getting noticed.

  131. Paula Rose says:

    I always wear my badge in the jaquzzi as sometimes my hands are underwater.

  132. Flower of Scotland says:

    @RogueCoder

    I donated again this morning to the Flags and they were about 3/4 of the way there! Hope Torrance reads Bella,s comments!

  133. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Croompenstein, You do the fine creature that is the Wolf a disservice to compare it to the likes of Torrance and his ilk. They are more akin to the hyena, scavengers one and all

  134. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ tartanarse – Rev Stu is not really a linguist, but he does know how to blaspheme in Urdu, Swahili and Tagalog. His skills in any Gaelic tongues are limited so @ Cymru Rydd he might struggle with the WOW after WOS.

    @ ronnieanderson – Your shed may be purloined, purchased, taken over as the rUK Embassy. Letter is in the post.

    @ Thepnr – I am midway through a book by John C.Parkin called ‘f**k it’ and apart from being a hoot its quite illuminating. Your post mirrors the author’s views.
    Walking with you on your thoughts.

  135. Mary Bruce says:

    @Thepnr: “I have no respect now for Labour and would only consider voting for them if they returned to their roots as LFI advocate.”

    Margaret Curran was on the radio earlier telling lots of bare faced lies like we would have to be joining the Euro. She then went on to tell us that we wouldn’t be getting into the EU…

    I coudn’t consider a labour party again while any of these hypocrites and troughers remain in it. If labour are to have any future it’s not just about getting back to their roots; they need a good spring clean to chuck out all the trash too.

    @Tam Jardine: “Was thinking today in terms of Texas Hold’em… the No side have been bluffing from the start with their refusal to have devo-max on the ballot paper and it’s been bluff, bullshit and play acting ever since.”

    I wouldn’t even give them that much credit. At least a game of poker is honest bluffing. Their behaviour has been more like plain old cheating, like hiding cards under the table, stealing chips from their opponents stacks and accusing others of not putting in their antes. They’d get a lifetime ban if they went anywhere near any decent poker club.

  136. geeo says:

    You seem to have an admirer on the scotsman comments page Rev.

    MODEERF
    “Stuart Campbell has some very odd views on women, homosexuals, 9/11, Hillsborough. He has been very successful, like many cult leaders, in persuading his followers to give him money. And he lives in Bath! Tranquil English dream country”.

  137. caz-m says:

    Paula Rose,

    I am getting the feeling within the whole YES Campaign that we are ready to move up a gear. We are all primed and ready to spread the word.

    I don’t know what the next move will be from YES, but what I do know is that the amount of volunteers has grown, the meetings are getting bigger crowds and it just feels right to step up the Campaign.

    I think it is also because you can feel the change every where you go now. It’s as if the general public are ready to accept the YES message.

  138. Croompenstein says:

    @Paula Rose

    I always wear my badge in the jaquzzi as sometimes my hands are underwater

    ooh missus

    It’s the bubbles I’m wary of 🙂

  139. Jack McKenzie says:

    That BT ad could not be more condescending if it said

    ‘Free Whiskey AND Cheap Fags’

    Not one but TWO great reasons to stay under the thumb.

  140. Paula Rose says:

    @ caz-m, that is why when people ask where to get aye right cards etc we need to be ready with the info, slapping my own wrists as I didn’t save the details – can someone else oblige?

  141. Paula Rose says:

    Also my pussy needs a stroke – so I’m doing this with one hand.

  142. RogueCoder says:

    @ geeo
    Who writes “homosexuals” these days? Only homophobes, in my experience. It’s like saying “coloured”.

    I didn’t know we were a cult – is there some sort of secret handshake? Should I be carrying a card of some kind? Should I be stocking up on tinned food, bottled water and shotgun cartridges?

  143. Croompenstein says:

    @Paula Rose – 😳

  144. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    Spot on yet again mister.

    You’ve articulated your position many times here, and done it consistently. For me, it’s one of the most powerful messages we can get out there – it’s just too easy for BT apparatchiks and their faithful MSM blowhards to dismiss LFI/Grogan. But they cannot dismiss you.

    The very fact that there is a growing LFI movement probably scares them more than anything else, and the root of that fear is people like yourself telling them the truth. So please, keep at it man – if you could distill the essence of all the posts you’ve made here then it would make one of the most powerful statements seen so far.

    High-five to you and all the other decent folk who refuse to accept the sham now masquerading as Scotland’s ‘Labour Party’ – if this whole debate achieves nothing else, it has forced Blairite gobshites to break cover, and the post-referendum landscape will be free of them once and for all. The very idea of it is just sublime – no more Dougie Alexander, Brian Wilson, Porgie Foulkes, Jackie Baillie, Lamont, Gray, Curran, Sarwar, and their mighty MSM buddies…the list goes on and on and on…but come Sep 19th, we’ll be able to stick a big fat full-stop at the end of it.

    ‘Scottish Labour’ = ‘Living Fossils’.

  145. ronnie anderson says:

    Sky press review = Labour have appointed David Axelrod as

    campain advisor for the 2015 election, jist goes tae shows

    ye the derth of talent in Britain, da man from Chi ca go’s

    no the man fae Delmonty,a gless o somebody else’s pish isna

    a gless of Sunshine.

  146. Paula Rose says:

    @ Croompenstein – you are awful but…

  147. RogueCoder says:

    @Croompenstein
    LMFAO!!! That has made my day, it truly has 😀

  148. Mary Bruce says:

    @Croompenstein says: “Just Ha Ha.”

    Can I just add: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Official polling companies aside, can anyone anywhere point to any other evidence that shows the no campaign might be ahead? The photos of the meetings at Stirling Uni reflect what I am seeing in the street and online.

  149. ronnie anderson says:

    @Archie not Erchie, ma shed earmarked fur the new border post at Gretna Welcoming Ambassidors rotate on a daily
    basis, wee urn n Scottish blend provided.

  150. TheItalianJob says:

    @Croompenstein at 12.01am

    Those two photos brought tears to my eyes. Just made my day. If this is the reality on the ground in April with 5 months to go then what’s it going to like on the 19th September.

    Here’s hoping.

  151. tartanarse says:

    Croompenstein 12.01

    Brilliant. There’s no amount of shifting and “sitting together” that could have been done to make the BT “gathering” look fuller.

    As in Ruth Davidsons “take a picture of all the duffers sat together to make the place look full” conference.

    Bit of a minter.

  152. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “O/T Stu when are you going to get David Torrance to do an ATL piece”

    “No plans, near future.”

  153. ronnie anderson says:

    @Croompenstein at this time of night am winding doon an you post that up, an on a high noo.

  154. Croompenstein says:

    Holidays Ronnie 🙂 happy Easter

  155. ronnie anderson says:

    @REV, any signs of the wee blue book yet, we are hopeing to
    have them for the Strathy Park stall.

  156. ronnie anderson says:

    @Croompenstein an a know who ah wunt tae gie a big duck egg

    tae,but ah dont know where her bunker is.

  157. I read a few of that Tory Councillors posts. He’s a nutbag. I’m starting to think Councillors should just be abolished completely. Too many loony whackos who make the American Tea Party group look sane.

  158. HorseBoy says:

    Today in Aberdeen, came across a local community radio broadcast.

    ShmuFM is operated by volunteers mainly targeting disadvantaged communities in Aberdeen.
    Became aware of ShmuFM when I’d finally given up BBC Radio Scotland’s repetitive brainwashing dross. Sack and Sell the lot asap.

    Shmu’s been on the go for 10year but I’ve only known it for under 1year.
    I find it represents Aberdeen and Scotland better than BBCRadioScotland’s now regular London content and operatives.

    Today’s broadcast was MSP Angela Constance, SNP’s new Youth & Female Employment Minister with MSP Mark Macdonald SNP Aberdeen Donside.

    It’s an interview by the “shmuTRAIN Takeover” teenagers, at 11am today Thurs 17April. There’s a Listen Again button on Shmu web.

    Was good, getting the word out to Aberdeen’s teenager & female listeners.

    http://www.shmu.org.uk

    ps. MSP Shona Robison SNP’s new Pensioners minister announced at SNP Aberdeen’s conference, this is great cos ShmuFM have a pensioner broadcast “Aye Gallus” every Monday 11am, they always asking for pensioner parliament!

    pps. Met local music radio DJ outside the SNP Aberdeen conference, plan to txtbomb WoS.com along with music requests! Hope getting the word out.

  159. caz-m says:

    Paula Rose,

    I didn’t know you were a cat lover.

  160. Paula Rose says:

    @ caz-m, I’m very fond of squirrels and rats as well and tortoises.

  161. ronnie anderson says:

    @Horseboy thanks had a wee listen, one station on my play list.

  162. HorseBoy says:

    Found this huge and impressive YES supporters list:

    A host of famous and prominent Scots have already pledged their support for independence. They include:–

    Sir Sean Connery, iconic actor (pictured); Blair Jenkins, former BBC Scot. & STV head of news; Sir George Mathewson, businessman & banker; Sarah-Jane Walls, businesswoman; Ruth Wishart, journalist; Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh; lawyer & businesswoman; Dan Macdonald; property developer; Liz Lochhead, poet; Elaine C. Smith, actress & comedienne; Dennis Canavan, former Labour MP & MSP; John McAllion, former Labour MP; Paul H. Scott, author & former diplomat; Jim McColl, businessman; Tommy Brennan, former shop steward; Dougie MacLean, singer; George Kerevan, economist & journalist; The Proclaimers, singers; Cameron McNeish, hill-walker & author; Pat Kane, musician; Lou Hickey, singer; Hardeep Singh Kohli, comedian & writer; Brian Cox, actor; Alan Cumming, actor; A.L. Kennedy, writer; James Cosmo, actor; John Byrne, writer; Martin Compston, actor; Stewart Kirkpatrick, website editor; Andrew Fairlie, restaurateur; Colin Fox, Scot. Socialist Party; Alex Boyd, photographer; Alasdair Gray, writer; David Hayman, actor; James Kelman, writer; Cat Boyd, trade unionist; Alan Bissett, novelist; Sheena Wellington, singer: Irvine Welsh, writer; Alasdair Stephen, architect; Annie Lennox, singer; David Greig, playwright; Alastair McDonald, singer; Frankie Boyle, comedian; Jack Vettriano, artist; Iain Anderson, radio presenter; Gerard Butler, actor; Janice Galloway, writer; Jim Delahunt, radio sports presenter; John Wallace, Principal of RSAMD; Ted Christopher, singer; Gerry Hassan, writer; Peter Mullan, actor, Dick Gaughan, singer; Mark Millar, comic book writer; Kyle Falkoner, singer: Aamer Anwar, lawyer; Clare Galloway, artist; James Aitken, lawyer; Peter De Vink, financier; Malcolm Fraser, architect; Angus Tulloch, investment manager; Tim Barrow, actor; Prof. Joe Goldblatt, academic; Greg Hemphill, actor & comedian; Ricky Ross, singer & radio presenter; Jeane Freeman, public affairs consultant; Lari Don, children’s story writer; James Robertson, author; Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, composer; Malky McCormick, cartoonist; Karen Matheson, singer; Karine Polwart, singer & songwriter; Sir Tom Hunter, businessman; Eddi Reader, singer; Michael Fry, historian & author; Craig Murray, author & former ambassador; Kevin McKidd, actor; Sandy Adam, businessman; Mary Lockhart, Scot. Co-operative Party; Tony Banks, businessman; Mark Shaw, property developer; Calum Colvin, artist & photographer; Lesley Riddoch, writer & journalist; Simon Howie, businessman; Aly Bain, musician; Harvey Aberdein, lawyer; Dolina Maclennan, actress & singer; Dr. Richard Dixon, environmental campaigner; Jai McDowall, singer; Sir Charles Gray, former Labour Strathclyde Council leader; Louise Batchelor, former BBC news presenter; Alex Mosson, former Labour Lord Provost of Glasgow; Nick Johnston, former Scottish Tory MSP; John Mulvey, former Labour Lothian Council leader; Derek Bateman, retired BBC radio presenter; Carmen Pieraccini, actress; Mary Ann Kennedy, singer & broadcaster; William McIlvanney, author; Alex Arthur, former championship boxer; Bob Thomson, former chairman of Scottish Labour Party; Libby McArthur, actress; David Taylor, former chief executive of SFA; James Scott, former executive director of Scottish Financial Enterprise; Freya Mavor, actress; Andy Myles, former chief executive of Scottish Liberal Democrats; Joan Burnie, journalist; Duchess of Hamilton (Kay Carmichael).

    http://aberdeensnp.org/node/19

  163. Paula Rose says:

    Hey look at that caz-m we’re all alone, the hordes have migrated to the good old days, now where’s that smiley thing.

  164. jingly jangly says:

    caz-m and Harry

    No exploration drilling has been carried out in the Clyde basin, only seismic studies. Back in the 80’s I was told by a colleague who was on a seismic ship that there was great potential.
    BP applied for an exploration licence, and as we now know this was blocked by HM Government as both Faslane and the Holy Loch were nearby. Russian Subs have been reported lurking under oil rigs in the North Sea, the UK Govt would have kittens if similar happened in the Clyde basin.
    If a Sub is hiding under a rig its very hard to detect and it can easily monitor the acoustics of the propeller and other noises from “our” Nukes. During he cold war there was a permanent Russian Trawler based off Kintyre which I imagine was trying to get the info above.
    If you can capture the frequency of the propellers, then anytime you pickup that frequency you know what submarine its is and from intelligence picked up onshore you can paint a fairly detailed picture of its operations and who the crew is. If you know who the captain is it gives you an advantage as all the captains will be profiled by the “other” side and they will know how each reacts under pressure.

    Various methods are used to change the frequency emitted. Its all part of the game.

    That is the background to why the exploration licence was refused. The same reasons are still valid today.

    Given that it was an SNP MSP (Chic Brodie) who submitted the FOI request regarding the blocking of the exploration, and that there might not be any commercial quantity of recoverable oil , what more do you want the SNP to do?

    Talk of large amounts of Oil in the Clyde Basin are fantasy, nobody knows and we wont know until we have a YES vote and exploration drilling can start.

    Arran itself is “floating” on millions of gallons of water, its where we get our drinking water from, only one village and those on private off mains supply get their water from burns. who is to say that its not Oil down there but water…

    The SNP and Scottish Government are doing the right thing, drawing peoples attention to the potential but not going overboard into fantasy land.

  165. caz-m says:

    Paula Rose

    You go first.

  166. Paula Rose says:

    I do wish there was a way round showing recent posts – one look at any up beat fun and enthusiasm and the hordes will be back.

  167. john king says:

    The Italian job says
    “Does anyone remember our Scottish oil company set up as BNOC, by the then Labour government in the late 70?s with HQ in Glasgow. It was then privitised as Britoil ”

    I worked in the Britoil office building when it was being built, I remember marvelling at the cost of two (fully grown )trees shipped over from Texas (no really) at incredible cost .

  168. john king says:

    Buckiebraes says
    “Mr Bean-like rictus, which possibly puts them off.”

    Buy a pair of braces. 🙂

    Croompenstien says
    “@RogueCoder – LOL yeh! they will want the Kepler 186F’s to fight their intergalactic war and they can zoom into battle to the skirl of the ? whatever they have for bagpipes.”

    Cats,
    its cats,
    they have cats,
    they’re a bugger to tune,
    apparently. 😉

    Ronnie Anderson says
    “Duncan Hootananny ”

    Splat, damn,
    just when I thought it was safe to have porridge again and you write that, cheers Ronnie now I’ll have to take off my wings t shirts now that its covered in porridge,
    and before anyone says your a sad git sitting at home wearing your wings t shirt, I’m going to a work fun 🙁 day out and taking the opportunity to advertise wings to the work group (are you hearing me Thpnr?) 😉

    Horseboy says
    “Found this huge and impressive YES supporters list:”

    F**k me
    (in an Australian accent)
    NOW THAT’S A LIST
    anyone made a list of no supporters? -I really hope they have, for posterity ye ken, no fur retribution -probably.

    Puala Rose says
    “@ caz-m, I’m very fond of squirrels and rats as well and tortoises.”

    Tortwa, fixed that for you
    no really
    watch this if you don’t believe me
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c4l_T3KRNo

    O/T
    Sally McNair says ( with a defiant toss of her head I found strangely alluring, pity it hadn’t been Catriona Shearer you know what I’m saying guys 🙂 ) @06.30 this morning

    “the CBI has declared their support for the no campaign (well there’s a surprise)to the electoral commission which as an official supporter entitles them to spend £150.000 in the campaign, now first of all,

    Where are they going to get £150.000? have a whip round between the two of them? and secondly why ARE they so shy about the membership numbers, too embarrassed guys? has Business for Scotland taken all your pals?

  169. john king says:

    Ive tried-lord knows I’ve tried
    but after due consideration and much deliberation the panel has named RONNIE ANDERSON as the funniest man on Wings over Scotland, I bow to a master Ronnie! ;0

  170. john king says:

    BTW
    Paula Rose
    I saw you and caz-m when you thought you were alone here,
    keep it for the rumpus room 🙂

  171. SquareHaggis says:

    Was lugging into a private(ish) ladies convo last night down the lounge of my local boozer.
    A couple of new ones I hadn’t heard before.

    One was concerned with an article in last weeks Sunday Herald regarding a 4 day week and how such a proposal was not favoured.
    Another was the oil and how it would wreck the environment and that the men would only be after the riches from it.

    Some decent counter arguments though. One lassie said a 4 day week would be good as it would mean someone else would get the spare 10 hours and she’d have more time to spend with her family.

    On the oil, the consensus was to put a bunch of women in charge but not Nicola Sturgeon.

    Was dying to intervene throughout but refrained and am glad I did.
    We need to understand the needs and ideas of our women as they will win this referendum.

  172. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    On the Clyde basin
    I am absolutely certain there is substantial oil reserves in the Clyde basin on two grounds – when I had a hotel of the Holy Loch I had two technicians lodged with me for some time who were assessing the Holy Loch at Sandbank as a potential oil industry harbour and they told me there was plenty of oil in the Clyde – and McAlpines built an oil rig fabrication yard at Ardyne near Toward on the Cowal peninsula opposite Largs (and there was advanced work done at considerable cost for the same at Portavadie on Loch Fyne). Nobody in their right mind would build these yards in these locations for use in the North Sea which would mean transporting them the best part of a thousand miles to their operating areas.
    These were preparations for West Coast oil industry.
    It is relatively simple to establish if there is large deposits of oil,particularly in shallow waters. There are large deposits of oil in the Clyde basin, in the Atlantic and round the coast of Ireland.

  173. magicpants says:

    Horseboy @ 12.43 re list

    Absolutely effin BRILLIANT!!!

  174. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    jingly jangly

    I’m sorry but I believe you are wrong. I was told in no uncertain terms over twenty years ago that there was plenty of oil in the Clyde by two technicians who stayed with me for about a fortnight assessing Sandbank bay on the Holy Loch as a suitable oil industry terminal.

    They also built an oil rig yard at Ardyne on the Clyde on the south of Cowal and they hewed out millions of tons of rock to provide a suitable rig construction yard and built a whole village (still empty more than two decades later)at Portavadie on Loch Fyne on the the other side of Cowal.

    Nobody in their right mind would do oil rig construction work in the Clyde basin for use the best part of 1000 miles away in the North Sea. They were preparing for oil extraction in the Clyde



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