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The good old days

Posted on April 18, 2014 by

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    1. 18 04 14 02:32

      The good old days | FreeScotland

    129 to “The good old days”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      Let’s not forget Stu that Lord(guffaw) Robertson said that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead..

    2. Grouse Beater says:

      Aye, that’s polytiks fir ye. Whur are they noo?

    3. tartanarse says:

      Hysterical. Cataclysm, apocalyptic, heightened terrorist risk, Unionist, danger….

      Stu are you sure that this is an old story and not simply lifted from this weeks news?

    4. Paula Rose says:

      “Imagine if they were still trying that stuff seven years later” – I don’t think so.

    5. Doug Daniel says:

      As someone who grew up watching wrestling, this has made me far more excited than it should: https://twitter.com/R_Roddy_Piper/status/456849287712755712

    6. Dcanmore says:

      I’ll sign off tonight by quoting ol’ Bertie Einstein: “Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

      Over to you Mr Darling.

    7. Croompenstein says:

      Where has Flipper been this week anyway? 🙄

    8. TheItalianJob says:

      It was weird reading this whole article and some of the comments.

      I have to say it was more balanced than we are seeing now but that’s because the stakes are far higher. However having said that the same scaremongering stories then are similar to what’s been said now.

    9. CameronB says:

      What, they still haven’t managed to find a positive case for the union? No surprise really, as you can’t find a thing that doesn’t exist. 🙂

    10. ronnie anderson says:

      Sos Rev for my lapse of memory on the last thread.

    11. Greannach says:

      Sin a’ cheist a bh’ ormsa rè na seachdain, cà ‘il am Flipper?
      I’ve been wondering all week where Flipper is: have the UKOKs dumped him silently?

    12. Greannach says:

      Sin a’ cheist a bh’ ormsa rè na seachdain, cà ‘il am Flipper?
      I’ve been wondering all week where Flipper is: have the UKOKs dumped him silently?

    13. Greannach says:

      Duilich gun do dhùblaich mi siud. Sorry for the double post there.

    14. HorseBoy says:

      Found this huge impressive YES supporters list:
      Must be secret cos never seen these great names before!
      ===========================================================

      A host of famous and prominent Scots have already pledged their support for independence. They include:–

      Huge list starts with: Sir Sean Connery, iconic actor.
      List ends with: Duchess of Hamilton (Kay Carmichael).

      http://aberdeensnp.org/node/19
      (its a must see, half way down page)

    15. caz-m says:

      Paula Rose I agree with whatever you say. lol

      Rev

      They are wheeling Gordon Brown out on Tuesday to frighten the natives.

      May I suggest that we get in there first on Monday and shoot Brown down, just to take the edge off his Fear Bomb on the Tuesday.

    16. Croompenstein says:

      @HorseBoy – and of course your good self but I can’t see oor Stu listed there but all winger’s should be listed.. good find

    17. Croompenstein says:

      @caz-m – I cannot, and never could, understand why anyone holds Brown in any regard. He forced Blair oot when he was hanging on by his fingernails, never won an election by the people, crowned by his ‘party’, face like a bulldog chewin a wasp, a real relic.

      Bring it on Broon yer tea’s oot..

    18. Croompenstein says:

      well off tae bed there’s been Gypsy Creams on many plates and I’m stowed…good night

    19. mia C says:

      I think the bit about the jews is right, w/ what Israel is doing in Palestine I can say I have much sympathy 4 them.

    20. Megsmaw says:

      Croompenstein – If in doubt, always check Snopes.

      It had this to say about it:

      “In the event, it appears that whoever distributed the leaflets simply fabricated the alarming documents for the purpose of yanking people’s chains, generating negative publicity, and/or making some money, without having either the means or the intent of actually enforcing the provisions outlined therein.”

      “Dmitro Tkachenko, who helped organize a large rally in Donetsk to support the unity of Ukraine, called the flier “a brilliant piece of disinformation” against the separatists.”

      http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/ukraine.asp

    21. An Duine Gruamach says:

      Mia C – that doesn’t make it right. Jews in Ukraine are in no way accountable for the actions of the Israeli government.

    22. Andrew Morton says:

      Re my previous post about how the aircraft carriers will have to be repaired and serviced in Scotland, here’s a pic illustrating the problem. English dry docks are too wee!

      http://relentlesslife.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/article-2152676-1368787d000005dc-998_634x570.jpg

    23. Andrew Morton says:

      It just gets worse for BT!

      Article in today’s Herald:

      Better Together invites wrong speaker

      Kate Devlin
      UK Political Correspondent
      Friday 18 April 2014
      IT may be called Better Together, but the No campaign has been accused of a gaffe – after it asked an SNP minister to appear as its representative in an independence debate.

      Humza Yousaf was surprised to receive the request to speak against his party’s flagship policy of Scottish independence.

      The case of mistaken identity follows a difficult few weeks for Better Together.

      The organisation has been accused of dogged negativity and faced complaints from pro-Union sources that it is running an uninspiring campaign. In an email from Better Together, Mr Yousaf was asked if he could speak at an event organised by BEMIS Scotland, the national umbrella body supporting the development of the ethnic minorities voluntary sector in Scotland, in August.

      Mr Yousaf, the Scottish Government’s external affairs minister, accused his opponents of being “shambolic”. And he revealed that he would be taking part in the debate, organised as part of Edinburgh’s JustFestival – speaking against Better Together.

      Mr Yousaf said: “With gaffes like this, it’s no wonder the No campaign are in such deep, deep trouble.

      “They are a shambolic campaign who are dropping in the opinion polls – they don’t have their finger on the pulse of Scotland, and this latest blunder proves it.

      “While I look forward to speaking at the event, it will not be for the No campaign, but to outline the many benefits of an independent Scotland.”

      A Better Together spokesman brushed off claims of a gaffe and called on the First Minister to represent the No campaign at the debate.

    24. john king says:

      I heard the tide will come in when it should go out and go out when it should come in in an independent Scotland playing havoc with sailing times for out tea clippers and the ball on the thing at the top of the hill in Edinburgh will drop at any time leaving sailing masters totally confused as to the time,
      IS THIS TRUE? WE NEED ANSWERS!

      Croompenstien says
      “Let’s not forget Stu that Lord(guffaw) Robertson said that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead”

      seriously I need to stop going to bed so early,
      guffaw, nice one!

      Paula Rose says
      ““Imagine if they were still trying that stuff seven years later” – I don’t think so.”

      Dont be daft no one is THAT thick, oh?

      CameronB says
      “What, they still haven’t managed to find a positive case for the union? No surprise really, as you can’t find a thing that doesn’t exist. :)”

      Well they managed to find another planet for us to go and live on so they can have Scotland all to themselves, nothing is impossible,
      well except finding a good reason to stay in the union I suppose.

      Greannach says
      “I’ve been wondering all week where Flipper is: have the UKOKs dumped him silently?”

      Silent but violent ,I HOPE.

      Andrew Morton says @5.38
      Wow now that’s some serious seamanship, how did they manage to get that in there? 🙂

      Andrew Morton says
      “Better Together invites wrong speaker”

      That reminds me of an embarrassing little episode when I email Cathrine Stihler about an email I got from the ODIHR
      best not go there 🙁

    25. bjsalba says:

      The thing I keep in mind about Gordon Brown is that he claimed to have put an end to boom and bust. In my book it makes him arrogant and stupid especially since he studied History at University.

      Whether you believe “Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it” or what Santayana actually wrote, “Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,” the result is the same – we can place no credence in anything Gordon Brown says.

    26. Derick fae Yell says:

      TheItalianJob says:

      “It was weird reading this whole article and some of the comments.”

      GCHQ weren’t taking us seriously then. They are now – hence the blizzard of trolls preventing sensible discussion on virtually every btl forum. The Herald, and Wings being honourable exceptions. Good moderation

    27. Muscleguy says:

      @John King

      Laser sights, available at B&Q. Also a pile of tugs and someone spotting landmarks, left hand down a bit Fred.

      That sort of thing. The point is you do not do it quickly.

    28. Doug says:

      Andrew Morton at 6.44am

      “A Better Together spokesman brushed off claims of a gaffe and called on the First Minister to represent the No campaign at the debate.”

      I think that is my favourite line in the piece. Unintentional irony?

    29. john king says:

      muscleguy@08.07
      Eh? eh dinna ken?

    30. CameronB says:

      Kind of O/T

      The “good old days”, eh? Well it will certainly be the same old structural disadvantage holding Scotland back during the 21st century. Future UK development policy does not appear capable of addressing the factors causing this and the north/south divide in general. Indeed, the largest construction project in British history, is essentially a London decentralisation scheme aimed at regenerating the Midlands. No cost will be spared for the heart of England and stuff the periphery.

      Planners welcome HS2 Growth Taskforce Report and calls on Government to adopt its proposals
      21 March 2014

      http://www.rtpi.org.uk/briefing-room/news-releases/2014/march/planners-welcome-hs2-growth-taskforce-report-and-calls-on-government-to-adopt-its-proposals/

      The Chair of the HS2 Growth Taskforce is Lord Paul Deighton, who was also Chief Executive of the London
      Organising Committee for the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games. He does appear to be the sort of establishment British nationalist who is unable to differentiate between England, Britain and the UK.

      The following statement regarding the appraisal of transport investment, tells me the planners know that the major tangible benefits of HS2 will not be enjoyed during construct. They will come from the long-term benefits of the structural development and urban regeneration of the Midlands. IMO, this will have a long-term damaging impact on the Scottish economy, which will not have benefited from similar investment. Or in other words, I would expect to see increased business closures in Scotland. The HS2 scheme is a classical set-up virtually guaranteed to deliver “creative destruction” a.k.a. Schumpeter’s gale is about to hit Scotland, in addition to long-term austerity.

      Creative destruction describes the “process of industrial mutation that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

      Capital seeks structural advantages and central England is about to get a ‘Taskforce Makeover’. Talk about unequal competition between north and south of the border.

      Appraising major transport investments

      There is increasing debate over the degree to which it is possible to appraise robustly the fullest economic effects of major transport schemes, such as HS2. Capturing all of the potential economic benefits to individual places and assessing what these mean for national economic performance is an ambitious aim, but we believe it should at least be possible for the Department for Transport’s
      current approach to be broadened. For example, its current approach fails to capture the full value of dynamic changes in land use, regeneration and the concentration of certain, high-value businesses into more productive “hubs”, which will undoubtedly be elements of HS2’s local impact.

      Experience from past major transport investments, none of which have been on the scale of HS2, tells us that a benefit-cost ratio derived from the Department for Transport’s standard approach has been overly conservative in attributing the benefits projects eventually deliver to the transport intervention. We don’t think that the Government’s current business case for HS2 is any different; the benefits set out do not fully capture the ‘real prize’ HS2 offers the country.

      High Speed 2 : Get Ready
      A report to the Government by the HS2 Growth Taskforce

      https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/294851/hs2-get-ready.pdf

      Remember, it has been estimated that HS2 will cost Scotland’s economy hundreds of millions of pounds, every year. There are no plans to extend HS2 further north than Leeds.

      Sorry for the long post, but it is good when the opposition support your position. Basically, what this says is the RTPI back HS2 despite recognising fundamental flaws in the economic appraisal of the schemes. The wider implications of the project are unknown to the developers. Go figure. A bold project indeed, given such an uncertain.

      Fabian Society
      The real reasons to value transport infrastructure

      David Pendlebury
      04 February 2014

      http://www.fabians.org.uk/the-real-reasons-to-value-transport-infrastructure/

    31. Alba4Eva says:

      Right guys… i’m a wee bitty worried here!

      I woke up this morning and I realised the sky was missing something. I just can’t figure out what has happened. I have looked in all compass directions… nothing! Just blueness.

      Can someone please reassure me that there will be clouds in an independent Scotland and that this worrying state of affairs will be resolved? I don’t want to live in a desert.

    32. David Agnew says:

      I am reminded by the old saying “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got”

      I think that when I see the Tories or the Lib-Dems – I think it now when I see labour. Here is another one for Scottish labour “Failure is only character building, when you learn from it”

    33. heedtracker says:

      The CiF has changed a lot though. From lengthy, positive and reasonable debate with zero recommends, fast forward 2014 and its all bitter swivel eyed loonies/fake Scots like Riderooo dripping malice and insult all wrapped up in union jacks.

      You have to wonder if their UKOK intention was to drive away reason and goodwill but such are the dark forces behind Bliar MacDougall and his world famous Project Fear thing.

    34. RogueCoder says:

      @ Andrew Morton
      ROFL – are BT still recruiting/fundraising via chain letters? Well, embarrassing episodes will happen!

      I recall a while back a puff piece about how BT were employing software from Obama’s campaign ironically called “Patriot” which allowed them to profiles voters and generate campaign messages tailored specifically for them. Looks like this was another fantastic lie since they evidently can’t tie their shoelaces without committing some massive gaffe. It’s honestly become more slapstick farce than a campaign – how is it possible to be so monumentally inept? It’s like watching Larry, Curly and Mo at work – except it’s “Ally, Wullie and Jo”.

      Kudos to Kate Devlin for that finishing line – that was properly funny. I’m getting the sense that the MSM (at least in Scotland) are being notably less hostile than even a month ago. I’d guess they can see which way the wind is blowing and are no doubt thinking about their post-referendum circulation figures.

      BTW, happy Easter everyone!

      And @Alba4Eva, blue skies are the result of the fog of Westminster lies being lifted! An independent Scotland will have a sunnier disposition, fact 🙂

    35. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the CBI are going to officially join Better Together

      I was almost surprised 🙂

      The sky is clear the day is beautiful on a day I have off…now that is real surprise

    36. MolliBlum says:

      Ah, the good old days indeed. Now we have more than just “warnings” of gloom and doom… that threat from space Hammond told us about seems to be upon us already. Time travellers are here and they are changing history!

      Ian Murray MP has a little piece in the Edinburgh Evening News / Scotsman today – imaginatively titled “Vote for the best of both worlds” – in which he appears to suggest (ambiguous wording, though, so he might be able to weasel out of it) that Scotland basically has the Union to thank for its universal education system… mentioning this progress in the same breath as the NHS, thereby implying it to be as recent as the 1940s… so while mulling over a suitable response to his “vandalisation” of history, I thought I should check a few minor details/dates…

      And what did I find? The Wikipedia entry on the “History of Scottish Education” has been edited [“This page was last modified on 27 March 2014 at 04:59”]

      “Modified”? Looks like it’s been completely rewritten. As far as I recall, it previously described Scotland as one of the most literate countries in Europe by the 17th/18thC this has now been amended to indicate high rates of illiteracy, especially among women, and to emphasise the “democratic myth” of upward mobility through education etc…. whether or not this new version is more, or less, accurate than the previous one is not the point.
      It’s the timing that’s interesting.

      This same Wikipedia page was, in the past, my go-to page as a back-up, when commenting online about the achievements of Scottish education in the most glowing terms (which of course I would hardly have linked to if it had provided so much negative fodder to crush my own arguments!)

      Maybe the previous version was a tad too uncritical – but this is so radically different from last time I visited the page that I’m seriously beginning to question my own memory.

      Is anybody here a contributor/editor there who can do a comparison and/or check what was changed and by whom?

    37. HandandShrimp says:

      Hi there Heedtracker

      There were some people asking after you, Dorice and Kristine over on CiF (not Rider 🙂 ) the other day. I said you were well and here. Someone said Dorice is on the Herald these days. Kristine I believe is still with us on CiF with a new account. Someone said she attracted a stalker with the old one.

    38. gerry parker says:

      @Andrew Morton ,
      Suffers from what many “top down” organisations suffer from. Daft Ideas from them at the top, but nobody at the bottom to fix things and make them work.

      @Croompenstein, Where are you getting Gypsy Creams, I thought they’d gone the same way as Jaaps health salts.

      Anyhoo, I’m off to Dunoon fur the Easter weekend and it looks as though it will be a cracker!
      Have a nice one all you Wingers.

    39. Clootie says:

      My favourite project fear cartoon.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/feargasm-part-3247/

    40. caz-m says:

      I just heard on BBC Scotland GMS news bulletin that the CBI are to officially join the Better Together Campaign.

      This will allow them to donate £150,000 during the official referendum campaign.

      What will wee Johann say about being joined at the hip with big business. She screams every week at the First Minister for being to close to big business with his lower corporation tax plans.

      But she is only too willing to take their money to help HER campaign.

      Pure hypocrisy from Scottish Labour, again.

      C’mon all straight thinkin Labour voters, dump this shower of chancers, stand up and be counted.

      Get behind Labour for Independence and win your Party back.

    41. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/17/ed-miliband-david-axelrod-adviser-2015-election Just listened to Douglas Alexander’s Labour election co-ordinator schtick on hiring an American to save them next year as this ex Obama guy is “Well used to fighting fear and smear campaigns.”

      Fabulous Labour hypocrisy or will Axelrod get to watch Stair Heid Rammy in FMQ’s action or meet the likes drunkard/cybernat hunter Lord Foulkes, Ian Davidson MP bayoneting survivors or meet BBC in Scotland charmers that dump Project Fear vote NO propaganda on Scotland everyday. What a bunch.

    42. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Is this what Gordon Brown is being wheeled out for?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27073034

      Blowup-man Gordon Matheson gets a mention.

    43. gordoz says:

      O/T : As the summer time is comin’

      This ones for all the ‘canvassers’ out their who do the real work for YES.

      It aint easy, but whan the YES households open the door its such a rush from the positivity and welcome. The undecidedes I feel are genuine but usually busy, but then again always worth the dialogue and banter, (seem surprised somebody still knocks on doors).
      What can you say about the NO’s ? They are out there, but
      surprisingly, not as many as the papers would have us beleive, (I thought they’d be happy to gloat about their poll lead, but no – they seem rattled).

      Anyway this brought a tear tae ma eye,(Mind I’d had a glass of wine!)

      Support the troops on the ground folks, they’ll get us over the finishing line (nae danger)

    44. bookie from hell says:

      was talking to girlfriend west coast,who I haven’t seen in a longtime,I had her down for a defo NO,surprised shes told me undecided,because of BT negative campaign,I hav 5 months to change her to YES,or until next BT gaff

    45. Greannach says:

      They and their party turned into John Major and his years before Andrew Rawnsley’s article was written.

    46. Jimsie says:

      “Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are turning into John Major”

      Does this mean that Edwina had to take on all three?

    47. MochaChoca says:

      Just reading that Better Together invited Humza Yousaf to represent them in a debate!

      I know we’ve seen some folk on here offer to man their stalls to ensure a balanced presence at public events but this takes the biscuit!

    48. Gillie says:

      This comment from the 2007 article;

      charvie

      08 April 2007 7:02am

      I wrote a pamphlet in favour of the abortive Scottish Assembly with Gordon Brown in 1979, and lasted another decade in the Labour party vainly trying to put a federalist case. Since 1989 I’ve been in the SNP and am standing for the Scottish Parliament in Kirkcaldy, Gordon’s Westminster constituency. We haven’t developed ‘cooperative federalism’ on German lines; instead Scots Labour MPs have been used to push through policies neither the Scots nor the English left wants, and Brown is as culpable as Blair.
      Transport is a personal interest. Under the Granita pact it’s one of ‘Gordon’s Things’ and since 1997 the UK has suffered six mediocrities as transport ministers, all but one Scots. Check today’s trains to Glasgow, 400 miles away. Fastest time seven hours, most nearer eight, slower than by steam. This in a week that saw the French TGV hit 350 miles an hour on the new Strasbourg line.
      John Stuart Mill wrote 150 years go that the nation which did’t master its transport wouldn’t remain a nation for long. But it’s only one example of the UK’s institutional collapse. For others see my BROONLAND dossier in . There will be no improvement under Cameron, whose Scottish support is zilch, so a velvet divorce will become invitable. In the longer term it will be constructive for the nations of these islands, and our European associates. We must start planning now for the partnership to come.

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andrew Morton:”English dry docks are too wee!”.
      That Rosyth dry dock has a long history. In around 1913, it was extended and had an extra dock gate part way along the dock that divided it in two. Then it had an extra notch cut at the northern most end to allow for the bows of the large, “Dreadnought Class”, battleships of which, “HMS Queen Elizabeth”, was the lead ship. These ships saw service in both World Wars. The Dreadnought class of battleships were the first ships of their type to be powered by oil instead of coal. They could only be drydocked at Rosyth. Incidentally, The real target for what was known as, “The Forth Bridge Air-Raid”, (the first German air raid of WWII), was the Battleship, HMS Hood. She was docked in that same Rosyth Dry dock. This leads to the story of Captain Jolly, of HMS Mohawk, who brought his ship into Rosyth’s South Arm after being bombed in that raid,(15 casualties on the foredeck). He saw her secured but when the ship’s crew turned to their skipper after bething they found him sitting in a pool of blood and he died on the way to Port Edgar’s military Hospital.

    50. kininvie says:

      @MoliBlum

      I checked the Wiki entry for History of Education in Scotland. The 27 March revision was very minor, and by a regular contributor. I can’t find evidence of the major changes you refer to. Was I looking at the right page?

      It’s very easy (and often useful) to sign up as a Wiki editor. Then you can check changes for yourself. Certain BT types do take a mischievous pleasure in altering pages, and it’s worth occasionally taking a few minutes to act as a roving policeman.

      Cheers

    51. MochaChoca says:

      And the appointment of the US election guru by Labour; wee Dougie A interviewed on Sky about it. No mention whatsoever about a referendum which might see him removed from his role before the UK election even happens.

      I’d have thought Labour and Tory would have held off on starting to highlight how dire each other will be in government until after they’ve hoodwinked us into remaining in their pathetic system.

      I suppose though they have already told us that the referendum is he-haw and it’s the UK election which is ‘the bigger fight’.

    52. Capella says:

      @Molliblum 8.58
      During the 2008 US Primaries, Hilary Clinton’s Wikipedia page was maliciously altered time and again. Probably other candidates suffered the same fate. But it’s par for the course it seems. I think Wikipedia eventually suspended edits until after the leadership was settled.

    53. Gillie says:

      David Axlerod the man who accused the Romney campaign of running negative ads attacking the negativity of Obama’s campaign.

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/07/25/axelrod_people_think_obamas_running_a_negative_campaign_because_of_romneys_ads.html

      I think this points out that 2015 (r)UK election is going to be very negative and a big voter turn off.

    54. CameronB says:

      kininvie
      I registered to edit wiki, just for the day. That was enough to edit Slabour’s page, so that every reference to a Scottish identity was changes to North British. Pointless but a giggle none the less. 🙂

      It all got changed back within and hour or so. ;(

    55. Muscleguy says:

      OT Rev if you ever need a killer argument to deal with the rights affronted troll types. XKCD comes to the rescue:

      http://xkcd.com/1357/

    56. Ewan MacKenzie says:

      MolliBlum

      At the top of every Wikipedia page there’s a “View history” link. Click that, and you can see the full history of edits to the page and compare the text of any two versions. You don’t need to be an editor to do this.

    57. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Gillie

      I have been bumping mt paranoid gums on this for some time.

      Post a YES vote at the Referendum, the rUK will turn into a two Party political state, just like the USA. It will become a red pill or blue pill choice of politics.

      The LibDems are more or less on the brink of extinction, thank you Nick Clegg who will disappear into a senior position in Bruxelles / international organisation circuit. UKIP will become the Tea Party wing of the Tories and the LibDems the bleeding heart of Labour.

      Cameron has his eye on that and Miliband, shorn of the bolshie Jocks will be in his paddling pool of a London centric ever so leftish, maybe, Party, which will fight the battles based on the Axelrods and his his ilk, in the future.

      I don’t think that long term Miliband gives a Monkeys for Scotland either, not long term anyway.

    58. ScotsRenewables says:

      Warning – O/T

      There is a post HERE that implies that Wings is backed by the SNP hiding behind anonymous crowd funding.

      Perhaps one or two of our non- SNP Wingers might like to pay ForArgyll a visit to enlighten them.

    59. caz-m says:

      Surely Labour MPs will lose their seats at the 2015 GE.

      After winning the Independence Referendum, we need MPs at Westminster who will fight for the best outcome for Scotland.

      And the present Scottish Labour MPs have already stated they would not support the policies contained within the Scottish Government’s White Paper.

    60. mogabee says:

      Amazing reading that article from 2007. The same arguments, though Andrew Rawnsley did state that Scotland would be in the EU if Independent.

      The more things change , the more things stay the same…

      …or something!

    61. MolliBlum says:

      @kininvie
      Thanks – I’m a little unsure now and really beginning to doubt my own memory! However, none of this alters the fact that Ian Murray’s article is a pernicious little piece, insinuating that we owe it all to the glorious union (I never did get around to commenting there). It’s a pity that our own elected politicians are so keen to hide our light under a bushel to ensure our enduring gratitude to Westminster. Even the NHS reference fails to mention that Scotland’s NHS has always been run separately and actually had a precedent in the form of the Highlands & Islands Medical Service, launched in 1913. Nobody ever talks about that.

    62. MolliBlum says:

      @EwanMacKenzie
      Thanks Ewan — I hadn’t noticed (duh!). Very useful for future reference.

    63. Clootie says:

      @Jimsie 09:32

      Thanks – it will take the rest of the day to get THAT image out of my head!

    64. Grouse Beater says:

      The insult issues from the press criticising the poor quality of the No’s campaign.

      The press is NOT condemning the No campaign for attacking the basic rights of the people of Scotland

    65. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Rev Stu on the last thread I had a comment disappeared why?

      I am just wondering what I did wrong.

    66. Croompenstein says:

      @gerry parker –

      you’re right Gerry I don’t think you still get the good old Gypsy Creams from the good old days 🙁

      It was a wee play on words as there was a mad program on Channel 5 last night called ‘Gypsies on benefits and proud’..I mean really? WTF

    67. HandandShrimp says:

      Cameron B

      That was a rascally thing to do 😉

      I remember my daughter joining Conservapedia and editing some of their articles…she has a surreal sense of humour …which they struggled with a wee bit.

    68. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @caz-m says:
      Surely Labour MPs will lose their seats at the 2015 GE.

      As has been said by others before, I can’t see how a 2015 Westmister GE can sensibly be held, following the YES vote in September.
      It makes much more sense constitutionally (for the UK, in the remaining months of its existence) to postpone the GE to May 2016.

    69. David McCann says:

      @HorseBoy.

      Thanks for that Ive taken a screenshot and put it up on FB. Hope lots of shares.

    70. I posted a comment that came up as ‘awaiting moderation’ but it has now disappeared.

      Any particular reason?

    71. Greannach says:

      Bugger (the Panda) @ 10:17 –

      There are no Bolshie Jocks in the Labour Party. They all do as ordered by head office.

    72. Well, I see that my comments are no longer moderated – that came up – so will post again.

      There was a suggestion this morning on ForArgyll that Wings is backed by the SNP. The insinuation is that because it is crowdfunded no-one can actually tell where the money is coming from.

      I am sick of seeing Wings getting slagged off on this particular site (ForArgyll) – perhaps some of our non-SNP Wingers could pop over for a visit and enlighten them.

    73. Croompenstein says:

      O/T – Has anyone seen or heard Ivan lately, he seems to have been dropped by the MSM for talking too much sense unlike Curtice who is on with depressing regularity.

    74. Marcia says:

      Put this chap on TV instead of Brewer:

      http://tinyurl.com/p44xt9l

    75. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Greannach @ 10:45am

      They are not of the Hampstead dinner table circuit

    76. Morag says:

      The Indiegogo records demonstrate pretty well where the money came from.

      And I want my Wings badge, soon please!

    77. Brotyboy says:

      @Marcia

      Link not working.

    78. CameronB says:

      Marcia
      I’m afraid that link didn’t work for me. I can see that the page is served from the USA, but it doesn’t load. I’m using the latest Ff.

    79. heedtracker says:

      Hi HandandShrimp, thanks very much for the CiF updates on Dorice and Kristine Kochanski, especially Dorice, two of so many terrific YES Cifers out there.

    80. seanair says:

      Marcia
      Brilliant! Who is this guy?

    81. @Croompenstein
      Let’s not forget Stu that Lord(guffaw) Robertson said that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead..

      Independence will kill his expenses account stone dead and that’s what worries him and all the vermin in ermine.

    82. Thistle says:

      OT

      Ok, people, got a small fund raiser going on by very young dude who is setting up a pro Indy online radio station. The idea is we not only live stream but also stream to online radio…

      We are in process of setting up our website and the various things we do will be hooked up together, including radio.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/raise-funds-for-pro-scottish-independence-online-radio-station#home

    83. Edward says:

      Marcia – Don’t know if you spotted on the video it lists what Robertson is connected to , including Monaco Telecom!

      Here is a page from BusinessWeek providing more of what Robertson has had and has his grubby fingers in. Not bad for a ‘socialist’
      http://archive.today/HkjdR

    84. Edward says:

      Just further to my above post, clicked further on the BusinessWeek initial article and it gave George Robertson’s ‘connections’ , a kind of version of LinkedIn 🙂

      According to the article and displayed he has 50 connections, some will not be a surprise to readers here, but may explain why certain companies such as Weirs come out against independence.
      http://archive.today/3ecsq

    85. ronnie anderson says:

      @John King 7.05 ,The tides dont bother me in ma Corical its

      a shallow draft craft. himmmmm a bit like the BT campain

      recruitment to the cause Fallow but costing them Deer.

    86. X_Sticks says:

      Thistle says:

      “Ok, people, got a small fund raiser going on by very young dude who is setting up a pro Indy online radio station.”

      Done.

    87. X_Sticks says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      “me in ma Corical”

      D’ye have to roe that?

    88. Grouse Beater says:

      George Robertson’s ‘connections’… may explain why certain companies such as Weirs come out against independence.

      One can fairly argue a conspiracy of attack on Scotland’s democratic process. The occurence is too great to be accepted as mere coincidence. You’ll note Robertson is a member of the Royal Society of Edinburgh (FRSE) – they too publish a rambling discourse on independence in the same week.

    89. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah hiv pills tae cure awe
      ill’s
      An some that make you wonky
      These I keep fur ether
      people
      They make you Bray like a
      donkey.

      Hows it gon Blair Mac Doogle, Doogle, Dandy.

      Hing in there Blair waiting on a licence fur a new pill
      fae the BMA, due on the 18/19 Sept 2014.

    90. James Forrest says:

      A wee piece on uncertainty today … if you’re tired being told how “uncertain” the world will be under indepedence, here’s my off the top of my head list of certainties if we vote No!

      http://www.commentisntfree.com/dealing-in-certainty/

    91. Thepnr says:

      A Yes vote is simply a vote for all the people of Scotland to oust the elite and their “connections” and put the peoples priorities first. This is as it should be.

    92. Alan Mackintosh says:

      X sticks/Ronnie. Na, ye paddle them, but careful mind. If you’re not careful you may be Sik a’ oer the place.

    93. ronnie anderson says:

      @X_Sticks, funny you should ask<D ye roe that, naw paddle

      a figure of eight, the only letter in the Alphabet where the starts the same as the finish O
      the only number is 8 start an finish
      must be BTs lucky numbers on the Euro lottery.

    94. Gillie says:

      CBI has registered as a NO supporter.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27077436

      Now that is a surprise – NOT.

    95. CameronB says:

      As I mentioned the Fabian and we are talking about the good-old-days, look what old news I found (2012).

      Scotland: What’s Left? Renewing the Centre-Left Vision for Scotland,

      Saturday May 12th, 1pm-5.30pm, Our Dynamic Earth, Holyrood Rd, Edinburgh EH8 8AS.

      There is consensus that the left needs to articulate a distinctive vision for Scotland based on values rather than independence.

      This conference aims to outline the vision and policy agenda to renew and reinvigorate Scottish centre-left politics. The event will cover a broad sweep of topics from the economy to civic structures from equality to international affairs.

      SPEAKERS

      Johann Lamont MSP – Leader of the Scottish Labour Party

      Margaret Curran MP – Shadow Secretary of State for
      Scotland

      Sarah Boyack MSP (Chair) – Shadow Cabinet – Local Government and Planning

      Ken MacIntosh MSP – Shadow Cabinet, Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth

      Gregg McClymont MP – Shadow UK Minister for Pensions

      Jenny Marra MSP – Shadow Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs

      Willie Bain MP – Member of Parliament for Glasgow North East

      Cllr Lesley Hinds – Edinburgh Labour Group, Transport Spokesperson

      Peter MacMahon – Assistant Editor, the Scotsman Jim McCormick – Policy Commentator

      So this ‘Fabian consensus’ reckons it is possible for Scotland to achieve a sustainable future, whilst refusing to consider Scottish independence. Ehm, HS2

      @ Sarah Boyack
      Are you seriously putting your name to this?

      http://www.fabians.org.uk/events/test-event-11/

    96. RogueCoder says:

      @Scots renewables

      First comment is moderated to make sure you’re not a spam-bot, after which you can post as much as you like 🙂

      Re: ForArgyll, I went and had a look, and it’s mainly “richard” posting unsubstantiated shite. My advice is not to feed the trolls. It’s not worth raising your blood pressure over when you can come here and be part of a friendly debate and enjoy the Rev’s incisive, analytical posts sprinkled with good humour – far better for both mind and body 🙂

      We do get the odd troll on Wings – pretty sure we had an SDL one last week – but they never last long. They get ignored and give up pretty quickly.

      Don’t waste your time battling the bile of those whom won’t listen. Put your energy into presenting the positive case to undecideds and No voters whom are fed up with Westminster fear mongering. Do that, and a sovereign Scotland is assured!

    97. ronnie anderson says:

      @GrouseBeater 11.35 Ur you sure on that ( FRSA )is it no

      ( ARSE )a more suitable a fraternity fur George Robertson.

    98. Marcia says:

      For those who couldn’t get the link going, here is his twitter account, you can access the video from there.

      https://twitter.com/IndyForTheGuy/status/456866393787744257

    99. RogueCoder says:

      Whoa – I’m being moderated – what’s up? Rev, are the rats oot their cage again??

    100. bookie from hell says:

      Here’s a Labour Party selfie when SNP won a majority last election

      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5iPzDJQgI3I/TbBD0-69KzI/AAAAAAAAEDo/0OUz4czteEk/s1600/posterTory.jpg

    101. ronnie anderson says:

      @CameronB, the only vision they have for Scotland is the

      Myopic wan.

    102. RogueCoder says:

      @ Marcia
      McV [to pseudo Lord George “looney tunes” Robertson]: “I’ve seen Mystic Meg give more reliable predictions than you”

      One thing thing the Yes campaign is not short of is humour – long may it continue!! 😀

    103. Thepnr says:

      FFS! Apparently the US will impose sanctions on an Independent Scotland.

      But a retired senior British military officer, Lt. Col. Stuart Crawford, has told RIA Novosti that the consequences of an independent Scotland banning the presence of Trident missiles on its territory would be serious US-led economic and diplomatic sanctions.

      http://en.ria.ru/world/20140418/189254771/OPINION-Scottish-Nuke-Ban-Could-Lead-to-Sub-Base-Annexation-US.html?

    104. CameronB says:

      ronnie anderson
      Ronnie, they are a bunch of ignorant imperialist Fabian. There’s not a socialist bone amongst them. Grrr.

      @ Sarah Boyack
      So how can Scotland secure a sustainable future, without the necessary tools and despite HS2, etc.?

    105. Gillie says:

      Make your feelings known about the CBI’s decision to support Project Fear.

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/the-point/2014/04/on-energy-scotland-is-better-off-within-the-uk/

    106. DaveDee says:

      George Robertsons thoughts on the CBI in October 1996

      LEADERS of the Confederation of British Industry in Scotland yesterday formally declared their opposition to the proposed Scottish parliament.

      The decision of CBI Scotland’s 52-member council was reached after considering responses to detailed questions it had submitted to all four main political parties. Its conclusions drew a bitter response from Shadow Scottish Secretary George Robertson, who accused some CBI council members of “strong partisan leanings” towards the Conservative party and claimed that it was not as representative as other business groups.

      Full article

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/cbi-sets-its-stall-against-devolution-labour-blames-tory-sympathisers-1.429714

      .

    107. ronnie anderson says:

      @Thistle 11.15 are you involved with this radio station.

    108. Gillie says:

      Easter humour:

      Q. What’s the difference between Pontius Pilate and the CBI?

      A. At least Pontius Pilate consulted with the crowd.

      The bosses being on the No campaign side means it becomes a lot easier to convince Scots to vote YES. Who in their right minds is going to vote for this bunch of crony capitalists.

    109. Croompenstein says:

      @James Forrest – cracking article James, this is Flipper’s mantra about uncertainties and one of the certainties is that he is shitting his pants at the thought of missing out on the ermine.

    110. ronnie anderson says:

      @RougeCoder, you’ve been re-routed via GCHQ they need mair

      info on you, noo whits your feking inside leg measurment.

    111. CameronB says:

      Gillie
      Apparently the CBI didn’t appreciate my comment. They’ve just zapped it. ;(

      Carefull now. Windy guff is often an indication of an internal lack of balance, Possibly even cataclysmic rot.

      Scotland doesn’t need nuclear energy and should not be expected to carry the burdens of astronomical costs and possible nuclear waste disposal.

    112. Helena Brown says:

      Great piece of writing James, left you a comment.

    113. James Forrest says:

      Croompenstein:

      Excellent analysis! 🙂

      Helena:

      Thank you for that pal. I left a reply!

    114. Jimsie says:

      James Forrest 11.50

      Enjoyed reading your piece James. The uncertainty factor is the cornerstone of the NO campaign simply because they have nothing positive to say about the Union.

      Most of the Noes I am acquainted with come out with this because they are in a comfort zone with job,house,car and nice holidays and do not want change. In fact none of them want a referendum at all. I do believe though that a lot of these people may not vote as they would have to live in the knowledge that they let their country down

      They may feel that abstaining is a salve to their conscience.

    115. Papadox says:

      Lord Robertson of port Ellon director of weir group/privy councillor. Etc
      Brian Wilson privy councillor/ brother in law of Raymond Buchanan ex BBC PQ
      Ramond Buchanan joins Weir group after leaving BBC PQ under a cloud.

      Am I just suspicious,

    116. Gillie says:

      The CBI consulted widely on this report; ‘Our Global Future: the business vision for a reformed EU’

      http://www.cbi.org.uk/media/2451423/our_global_future.pdf

      Extracts from the report;

      “Over 450 CBI member companies and trade associations – including 39 firms from the FTSE 100 – attended consultation events, many at CEO level.”

      “8 out of 10 CBI members (from a membership survey) – including 77% of SMEs – said that they would vote for the UK to remain a member of the EU in a referendum if held tomorrow.”

      The CBI have refused to say whether they consulted members on the organisation’s stance to Scottish independence.

    117. HorseBoy says:

      @kininvie
      @MoliBlum
      re. History of Education in Scotland.

      I’m trying to find out the guilty parties who and when, is responsible for introducing English and replacing the native Scots as the language of eduction in Scottish schools.

      When the Russian Czar tried to introduce Russian as language of education in an occupied Finland, they went to war. Finland won and are Independent and speak Finnish.

      Russain Czar occpuying Poland made illegal all Polish langauge and culture. saw it on a program about the Polish Marie Curie.

      South African Dutch Boer’s introduced Afrikaans as language of eductaion in South Africa schools. This started the Soweto Uprising resistance against Apartheid.

      Its a technique Imperial Colonialists used to neutralise occupied peoples. Invading regimes have to assimilate the occupied as a perpetual war is too expensive, and the takeover becomes unviable.

    118. KOF says:

      Horseboy, it’s been going on for a long time. See The Statutes of Iona, 1609.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutes_of_Iona

      The education of chiefs’ heirs in Lowland schools where they “may be found able sufficiently to speik, reid and wryte Englische”

    119. Gillie says:

      Now that the CBI are officially a part of the NO campaign that means they can be ‘stickered’.

      There are two CBI planned events of interest.

      CBI Scotland Annual Lunch 2014 – Celebrating all Things Scottish (don’t laugh).
      Date: Friday 27th, June
      Venue: Crowne Plaza Edinburgh The Roxburghe, Edinburgh
      Time: 12.00 pm – 14.30 pm
      Cost: £72.00 per person

      CBI Scotland Annual Dinner 2014 (probably their last)
      Date: Thursday 28th, August
      Venue: Hilton Glasgow, 1 William Street, Glasgow G3 8HT
      Time: 7.00 pm – 10.30 pm
      Cost: £180.00

    120. geeo says:

      After much searching, i believe i have found which has taken longer than the posotive case for the union..

      http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23896-pitch-drop-caught-on-camera-after-69year-wait.html

    121. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cameron your comment is there – I’ve just had a gander.

      Love the mock up of the dry docks Andrew – and the mental picture of Ronnie in a coracle goes well with it!

    122. call me dave says:

      Have we noticed the ‘letter of the week’ in the Express sponsored by Barr Head Travel?

      I see the yesterday’s rant for better together is countered by today’s letter choice for YES.

      Is this their idea of cosying into the good books by presenting a ‘balanced’ approach and to urge customers to come we need your business. 🙂

    123. CameronB says:

      A CBI spokesman was recorded saying….

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBlhPVAOEZM

    124. HorseBoy says:

      @KOFit’s
      re. See The Statutes of Iona, 1609.

      History of Education in Scotland.
      ===========================================================

      I recall more recent Westminster Education Act imposed on the Scots, using English language instead of Scots language in Scottish schools, around late 1800’s!

      Who was Head of State, who was Head of Government, who was Head of Education, Who was the British Empire’s Colonial Scottish Office Minister!

      They are the guilty!

      ps. further to my previous post above:
      British Empire used this technique on North American Indian’s and Australian Aborigine’s in schools to destroy their culture and thus easier to govern, classic divide and rule. Followed by tax and conscript! Because perpetual war is too expensive.

      This is how the feudal system has been working and works, operated by monarchies since 1066!

      ps. I’ve developed this Timeline method to identify Manmade and Nature World events, to identify who are responsible. Firstly identify the Event and then seen Who was in Power. Those in Power are the Guilty. simples

    125. Dorothy Devine says:

      According to STV news tonight , 2 big companies have withdrawn their membership of the CBI saying there was no consultation about the move to support NO.

      Does anyone know just how many companies are registered with CBI Scotland ? ( obviously minus 2!)



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