Same as it ever was
Posted on
June 04, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
From the excellent Part 1 of STV’s new documentary “Road To Referendum” (based on the book by Iain Macwhirter, out this week), Labour PM Harold Wilson and Scottish Secretary Willie Ross punt a rather familiar line four decades before Ed Miliband.
We’re sure there’s nothing at all sinister in the fact that the show was unavailable to most viewers due to an unprecedented cross-media technical failure, which also wiped out the STV news at 6pm and this evening’s Scotland Tonight, incidentally.
Ein Reich?
Or just an unfortunate slogan and photo we can gloss over..?
STV is back on Rev..
But no “Scotland Tonight”.
managed to watch about first 5 mins online and then it froze and couldn’t get it back; it started with how we fought the Nazi’s together, which I thought was a bit of an arbitrary point in history to begin but didn’t get past the part where they had just started talking about thieves stealing the stone of destiny.
I would say the former lumilumi, the British state, BritNat Socialists, english socialist, national socialist. Scratch the paintwork and you will find they are made of the same material.
anent other stuff: I read somewhere in the interwebby thing (NNS?) that Lord Ffoulkes tried to complain to OFCOM about this STV series, presented by Ian McWirther, because of bias.
You could not make it up. BBC Scotland is the media arm of the British Labour party in Scotland, and if a commercial station dares to not to toe the party line, they’ll be subjected to an OFCOM inquiry. In the end, common sense prevailed, and Lorf Ff’s complaint was thrown out.
If Scotland doesn’t vote for independence in 2014… Well, you deserve everything you’re going to get, as a loyal junior partner in the most morbid political union going.
My SKY channel was down but I managed to see it on Freeview. I thought it was a good history lesson and did us no harm at all. If anything it showed just far we have come since the end of World War 2.
Gordon Wilson quoted today in the P&J saying how he would have gone for the jugular stating that the UK was basically heading down the pan and would take Scotland with it, I am not at that point yet but the constant bull from the bitter together mob and their BBC lapdogs is beginning to get on my bits!!
I didn`t experience any problems at all watching it here in Dundee. I thought it was pretty good. After watching it, I can see why Labour might have sweatier palms than usual.
Here`s my pet Tory Twitter Britnat clique describing the black-out.
https://twitter.com/TarvesSaysNO/status/341999457765842944
Really enjoyed it on freeview – didn’t realise there was a problem elsewhere. Looking forward to next instalments.
Aye, I thought it was excellent. Not even a hint of bias – which in the eyes of Labour, of course, means it might as well have been produced by Alex Salmond himself (and I dare say they secretly reckon he wrote the script as well).
Imagine this though: 10 years from now, STV decide to reshow the series, as a look back to the referendum. They add a fourth episode, which looks at the referendum campaign, the vote, and the aftermath.
The idea that this fourth episode would show Scotland voting No seems absolutely ludicrous. It would be Scotland’s “Jumping The Shark” moment. A 70 year build up to the biggest anti-climax the world has ever seen. We’d look back and think “how the hell did THAT happen?”
So let’s make sure it DOESN’T happen!
Peter – whenever Gordon Wilson says anything, I remind myself that he was the SNP leader who managed to lose his own seat – a feat that even Iain Gray narrowly avoided in 2011!
Anyone know if there are plans to repeat the show, didnt see it.!!
I thought it was excellent – great stuff from Iain Macwhirter.
Can’t wait for book release & next episode.
Foulkes is funny. He goes on about Cybernats but he is the biggest hissy fitter out there. Toys go in all direction if he doesn’t like something.
We in the former Grampian TV area saw it without any problems.
I found it a scary to that I remember nearly all the events featured. I was saddened to see my old mukka Jim Halliday who sadly passed away in January in the programme. Also scary to see a glimpse of myself nearly 40 years younger at the Dundee East declaration which they wrongly had as February 1974. It was the October election. I did not learn much from it but it will help younger viewers who might not know how we arrived at the present political scene. I shall watch the next two.
Doug Daniel
You’re spot on. Didn’t he also say that the SNP’s stance on gay marriage could lose the referendum? I think his ego exceeds his ability.
live in west of central belt , couldn’t watch Road to Independence on SKY
Got it on Freview.
and now cant get Scotland Tonight.
RtI. Started up on Sky before 9 (don’t have the time) BUT how many would keep checking to see if it started. and how many will bother to watch next week.
Re. Foulkes. Going bright red as he splutters himself in to apoplectic indignation. Quite an act how he is able to turn it on so easily. Alternatively, perhaps that is his normal state and the drinking just helps him to knock the edge off it, so that he can get through the day. Just like a junkie, only his fix is at the trough.
Dee – it’s online here (http://player.stv.tv/programmes/road-referendum/2013-06-04-2000/?yes), or MacWhirter reckons it’s going to be repeated on TV at some point.
Although it seems I’ve finally found a benefit for not having Sky – there was no problem on Freeview!
@ Doug Daniel
I can think of a benefit of not having Sky. You are not putting money in Murdoch’s pocket.
I watched it tonight, (my Mum thought there was something wrong with her TV at first as Emmerdale was acting up), and thought it brilliant. I am old enough to remember a lot of what went on in the seventies onwards, and was fascinated to see that again, as well as what came before.
Also available in other book stores?
@Angus McPhee
Yes, it is also a book. Out either this week or next.
Reports that STV will broadcast a repeat later this week.
Excellent programme and many congratulations to Iain MacWhirter. Greatly looking forward to the remaining two programmes.
I recorded in on my sky box but it failed for the first half.
Time now for a Stewards Enquiry !
Caught the start via STVplayer. The internet triumphs !
Wendy Wood ! i listened to her at university when she was a guest of the Scottish National Party Club.
John Bailey from Wishaw was in charge. Thanks John. wherever you may be.
I hope I can get it on the STV player next week when I’m somewhere with a faster internet connection!
Don’t anybody spoil it for me by telling me how it turns out (in 2014)… 😉
Dee, you do realise, don’t you, that you’ve invited one of the Reverend’s rants about nobody following the links at the very start of his article?
Ffoulkes Toon
Living down in the SW and don’t receive STV. Any other way I can see this programme?
Iain MacWhirter may be an avowed unionist but his USP (and boy do I mean unique) is that he usually sticks to fact and reasoned inference rather than the predictable and deplorable lies and distortions we have come to know and loathe from the rest of the morally bereft unionist cabal.
The technical hitch was as surprising as, well, all the other technical hitches (and one BBC Scotland ‘fire’ evacuation) we have witnessed during umpteen SNP conference keynote speeches etc.
Loved this comment on twitter: They can take our satellite but they’ll never take our Freeeeeview!
For those who don’t know, the broadcast worked just fine on Freeview but was fucked on Sky.
lumilumi says:
4 June, 2013 at 9:47 pm
“Ein Reich?”
ein volk?
Hope it is repeated. Freesat was down.
The coverage was shocking. I tried to watch it on SKY, but instead, got what I believe was a programme about the British Army and animals (and if it was …oh shock, horror, surprise …a programme about the British Army). I only gave it a fleeting glance for 5 seconds, as I was too busy swearing at SKY).
However, there are ways to beat SKY at their own game. To get around this guys, this is what you need to do…
Go to ‘Options’ on the SKY Menu (usually the bar at the top of the screen once you choose channel listings).
Choose ‘Add Channels’
Make sure the following are set…
Frequency : 10936
Polorisation: V
Symbol Rate : 2200
FEC: 5/6
The STV Channel will appear in the listings as ‘3855’ …and that is it!!
The best part about this is that the STV you will get is STV HD. You don’t get that on SKY.
The only thing is that if you have SKY+ or SKY HD, you can’t re-wind as you can with other channels (I have no idea why!!)
If you want, check out the forums on the internet if you enter ‘stv hd on sky frequency’ …you can also add channels such as ITV HD. I always switch to ITV HD for the Champions League Games!!
Hope this helps.
ITV HD Settings
frequency: 10.832
Polarisation : H.
Symbol Rate : 22.0
FEC is 5/6
Press the yellow button to Find Channels.
If any of you are struggling then let me know, and I’ll help you through it.
Hi, I’ve been a long time reader of Wings. For anyone outside the STV area, if you can’t get it on iplayer. There is a site called HideMyAss.com where you can link to IP addresses all over the world to access localised programmes. Hope this helps.
Macart / Guys down south,
Not promising it will work, but try out my entry above, or check the forums on the internet.
I would be curious to know if folk south of the border can get STV (even in London!!)
It just depends on the Frequency and Bandwidth. If it is carried in the main signal from the Satellite, then I would say Yes, you should get it, as the main signal for SKY covers the whole of the UK. Being digital, it may also give the channel greater range to be picked up, even if it transmitted from …I dunno …someplace in Glasgow!
Give it a shout and let me know. As said, check the Internet forums. You may get advice there, that I may not know about, but will help you out big time!!
if any of you fine people come across this on Youtube or have the knowhow to post it on Youtube, can you be so kind as to post the link… Iplayer doesnt work abroad im afraid.
regards
Al.
Have you tried one of those proxy servers which kid on you’re in the UK?
The Lüber party
‘be a smarty, come and join the Lüber party’
Alan, I’ll pop a link in later from SIL that can let you download a non-British IP address concealer – then you can watch what you like – just be sure to always say NO to and demand or offer to add a toolbar
Most proxy servers are too slow. I’ll try one tonight on the htpc. STV hd was off too. All that was available was ITV London. I must admit I had my tin foil hat on for a minute until Google showed it was a network fault.
I will see if it is available on one of the sites online tonight otherwise it is proxy and itv player.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22777735
Labour ‘would keep child benefit cuts’ made by coalition
Blue Labour manifesto shaping up nicely.
They’ve fallen 5% in polls recently and I guess this has them worried. They should be well out in front if they were looking for a win in 2015. Seems this may have prompted them to start firming up how they’ll be tougher on the scroungers and work-shy disabled people etc than the tories.
Hot off the press at Twitter… Road to Referendum on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV_D9P8nj4I&feature=youtu.be&a
…and here’s a low bandwidth version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSDblfcBCfQ&feature=youtu.be&a
BBC in Scotland this morning trying their hardest to put the negative boot into positive inward investment figures. i think a big congratulations should go to the Scottish Government. Keep up the good work.
Set the box to record and got 38 minutes of military dogs or something, what a joke. Will need to track the programme down now.
Ah top notch peeps! Thats my evening viewing planned.
Spasibo Bolshoi
If anyone who saw the program last night was intrigued by the brief mention of “The cheviot, the stag and the black, black oil” it can be seen through this link:
http://auldacquaintance.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/the-cheviot-the-stag-and-the-black-black-oil/
I remember watching it as a teenager with my family and can still recall the delight and outrage we all felt as the story unfolded. A must-see.
I really enjoyed the programme. McWhirter pitched it just right, althouygh I think something could have been said about the McCrone report. Why is Foulkes is so peeved about it? A timely reminder of how far we have come, in one generation. Great contributions from all the politicians. And young Margo MacDonald – wow, what a stunner!
Television, the drug of a nation – I will buy the book instead, sounds worth a read.
In tribute to the Title of the Piece :
You may find yourself living in a Scotland shack
You may find yourself ruled in another part of the world
You may find yourself under the wheel of a large autocratmobile
You may find your MP flip a beautiful house with a beautiful life
You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
Letting the days go by, let the oil hold me down
Letting the days go by, oil flowing ever South
Into the blue again after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime, oil flowing underground
You may ask yourself, how do I claim this?
You may ask yourself, who pays that large autocratmobile?
You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful house
You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful life
Letting the days go by, let the oil hold me down
Letting the days go by, oil’s flowing ever South
Into the blue again, after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime, oil flowing underground
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Oil dissolving and oil removing
There is oil at the bottom of the ocean
Remove the oil, carry the oil
Remove the oil from the bottom of the ocean
Letting the days go by, let the oil hold me down
Letting the days go by, oil’s flowing ever South
Into the blue again, after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime, oil’s flowing ever South
Into the blue again, into silent oil
Fracking the rocks and stones, English oil underground
Letting the days go by, into the silence bought-offs
Once in a lifetime, oil’s flowing ever South
You may ask yourself, what is that beautiful house?
You may ask yourself, where does that High Speed trainline lead to?
You may ask yourself, am I right, am I wrong?
You may say to yourself, my god, what have Labour done?
Letting the days go by, let the oil hold me down
Letting the days go by, oil’s flowing ever South
Into the blue again, after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime, oil’s flowing ever South
Into the blue again, into silent oil
Fracking the rocks and stones, English oil underground
Letting the days go by, into the silence bought-offs
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Time isn’t holding us, time isn’t after us
Time isn’t holding us, time doesn’t hold you back
Time isn’t holding us, time isn’t after us
Time isn’t holding us…
Letting the days go by, letting the days go by, letting the days go by, once in a lifetime (?)
I like that Desimond, well done.
JLT, I’m living just south of Bristol just now ( I’ll be back in time to vote) and yes the added channels on sky works for me too, added just before Xmas. Can’t rewind either though
Part of the ‘Union dividend’ is of course that you can watch STV player if you’re in the UK. So as I’m in the Border reception area I watched Road to the Referendum on that without difficulty, not realising the mayhem elsewhere until I read this !
The first part was excellent and I look forward to the rest. I do hope that it attracts some of the younger generation to learn the full story about the independence movement.
Should have maybe changed it to Once in a LieTime for Mr Healey
Excellent broadcast by the STV that brought back so many memories, good and bad, but importantly fair minded.
It raises the question of why the BBC find it impossible to do this. This corporation is responsible for some of the most questionable broadcasting of Scots and Scotland you can ever imagine. We were patronised in the 50s. Stereotyped in the 60s and 70s. Ingnored in the 80s and 90s. Demonised and mocked in equal measure in the 00s and 10s.
Comparing STV now to BBC Scotland is like comparing a glass of clear spring water to a bucket of $hit.
@Desimond
Stop Making Sense. 😉
Luigi says:
5 June, 2013 at 9:53 am
I really enjoyed the programme. McWhirter pitched it just right, althouygh I think something could have been said about the McCrone report.
Patience my man…..the first show covered 1945 to 1974…..
McCrone, the 40% rule and Maggie, the dole queues and the squandered Oil wealth will be in Part 2……
I’m guessing Part 3 will be the establishment of Holyrood, the fall of Labour and the rise of the SNP…..
To those who plan to read the book only please don’t. The footage of Scotland when the world was still in black and white is essential viewing. I live near Hamilton and the footage of Winie Ewing took me right back. Her victory was I think my first awareness of politicks.
Good article from Ian Bell in the Herald.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/ed-balls-speech-that-was-a-suicide-note-for-labour.21259683
Ed Balls speech that was a suicide note for Labour
Aye, basically, Labour think everything the Tories are doing is correct and would just take up the mantle as per Tony. No need to vote Labour then, just let the Tories get on with it. At least Dave looks reasonably statesman-like.
Max:
Comparing STV now to BBC Scotland is like comparing a glass of clear spring water to a bucket of $hit.
Aye, but it is the shit we are paying for!
@muttley79
I mean not Amazon.
PS The Book Launch is
Monday 17 June 2013, 6.30pm, The Mitchell Library Glasgow
http://www.ayewrite.com/programme/Pages/Event—Road-to-Referendum-book-launch-.aspx
@JLT
Many thanks. I’ll give all of your suggestions a try.
@Desimond
Just brilliant! Wonder if David Byrne is pro-independence?
“Frequency : 10936
Polorisation: V
Symbol Rate : 2200
FEC: 5/6
The STV Channel will appear in the listings as ’3855? …and that is it!!”
Those don’t work for me.
Rev – try 10906 rather than 10936 for the Frequency . Thats the number that I’ve seen listed elsewhere.
The programme was a just reminder of how much Scotland and the Scots were maligned and patronised throughout those times. It still sticks in my mind an episode of Z cars when I was a kid, where the ‘baddie’ was an evil drunk from Scotland called ‘Glasgow’ Danny, or something like that, and even then thinking, ‘How come us Scots are always portrayed like that?’ No wonder a ‘Scottish cringe’ developed. We were seen as being ‘the other’, a different breed at a lower level to the ‘sophisticated’ English. All perpetuated by the broadcast and print media at the time (what’s new!). It was quite painful to watch, for me personally, at times, bringing back unhappy memories of a downtrodden Scottish people as a result of Westminster policies.
Having said that, hopefully these reminders will stir up some passion within those who are ‘undecided’. If they can realise that, ‘Hey, look at where we are now even after all the shite we’ve gone through already. Imagine where we could’ve been if we’d been able to have control of our own country. Just think where we can go being independent!’ then that can only be a good thing.
Looking forward to the next episode, I’m really curious to know if the McCrone Report will be told about and in how much detail (it may, of course not be mentioned until the programme covers the year 2005, the date of the FOI request). Its (the McCrone Report) importance to the independence debate cannot be underestimated: the more people who know about it and what it said the better.
Youtube has removed the video. I had just enjoyed it and was about to share but it’s gone now. Does anyone have a mirror?
Have been trying to track down the drama mentioned towards the end by Douglas Hurd – Scotch on the Rocks.
Anyone ever seen it?
Never heard of it before, looks very interesting. Youtube has nothing. Wikipedia has detailed synopsis, Amazon has some tepid reviews, that’s about it.
Curious, and grateful for any further info.
@ Ianbrotherhood,
I can only find the book :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-Rocks-Lord-Douglas-Hurd/dp/0751530816
This thread on this forum suggests the original series was destroyed :
http://www.britmovie.co.uk/forums/looking-video-dvd-tv/111129-scotch-rocks-bbc-1975-5-episodes-very-controversial-even-2012-a.html
I will let you know if I can find anything on the series, although it looks doubtful.
There is a synopsis of each episode here :
http://www.ovguide.com/tv/scotch_on_the_rocks.htm
But again no links for the series itself.
Drawing blanks – I doubt it exists, unless someone at the BBC can find it. Given the amount of stuff they manage to destroy, the best we can hope for is someone has squirrelled it away in their attic – if so would be good to see it.
If the program follows the extract in the Herald, it is not right to say that Scots were at their most British in the 1950s. The Scottish Covenant – “We, the people of Scotland who subscribe to this Engagement, declare our belief that reform in the constitution of our country is necessary to secure good government in accordance with our Scottish traditions and to promote the spiritual and economic welfare of our nation.
We affirm that the desire for such reform is both deep and widespread through the whole community, transcending all political differences and sectional interests, and we undertake to continue united in purpose for its achievement.
With that end in view we solemnly enter into this Covenant whereby we pledge ourselves, in all loyalty to the Crown and within the framework of the United Kingdom, to do everything in our power to secure for Scotland a Parliament with adequate legislative authority in Scottish affairs.” – got 2,000,000 signatures from a population of 5.1 million in Scotland in 1949-50ish. In fact I turned off Westminster in 1954-5 not only because Westminster had ignored that but also because I overheard one of the Tory MPs for Edinburgh North decribe the participants in a protest meeting in the old Monseigneur News Theatre on Princes Street as “peasants”. This particular Westminster ignorance of Scottish concerns is, at least, part of the reason for the upsurge in political activity by Scots expressing dissatisfaction with Westminster government as they had seen all other means would be ignored. For many the SNP is not about “independence” it is about Scottish self-government. Not anti-English, not even particularly pro-Scottish, just deeply anti-Westminster.
@ianbrotherhood
Interesting in that it is the mind-product of one of Mrs T’s Foreign Secretaries but not much cop as a story.
@Adrian B-
Cheers mister.
No doubt someone will unearth it eventually – I doubt it’s been destroyed. The security services would surely have found it valuable for illustrative purposes, training etc. And it’s a pretty safe bet that the author (Hurd?!) would’ve ensured that a copy was made for his own library.
Thanks march rally on you tube. For me it brought me back to when I was a primary school kid in a family steeped in nationalism. My dad was an SNP councillor and then a PPC in west Renfrew.. My childhood seemed to be election after election in the seventies. Car cavalcades, Elderslie, Bannockburn, Glen Trool .Gaberlunzie in wee community centres, screen printing posters in the garage and never having money as it all seemed to go into politics. There were all these people who would buy me a coke or babysit. George Reid taking us round Westminster. Billy Wolfe, Maggie Bain as she was. Margo as I remembered her as a young woman.. Helping deliver leaflets with ” It’s Scotland’s oil” on them. Being seen as the weirdo nats but the odd kind word from a teacher when Dad came second to Norrie Buchan or mum narrowly missed getting on the council.
I haven’t been a member of the SNP for about 20 years. My dad says he has been out of the party now longer than most have been in it but Scottish independence has been my lifelong aim and it was good to see a documentary sympathetic to the cause.