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Wings Over Scotland


Our loss is England’s gain

Posted on November 21, 2013 by

It’s already been in the comments, and it’s all over Twitter, but it’d be remiss of us not to give as many people as possible the chance to enjoy this.

Blair McDougall’s a big Rangers fan. See if you can spot him anywhere.

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218 to “Our loss is England’s gain”

  1. callum mcswan says:

    Is Blair Mcdougall actually in this film? Cant get it to download but i think I have seen this before!
     

  2. Beat me to it. However, take out the effing etc, and is it really any worse than “No Dr Who” or, indeed, 28% VAT, 1.9% fiscal gaps and all the rest of the bolleaux that comes out from the self-styled Project Fear?
     
    After his performance yesterday at Edinburgh Uni, I hope the Welsh Labour FM Carwyn Jones will be waiting in Cardiff to welcome that heidbanger off the bus. I’m sure he’ll be an asset to Wales.

  3. David Smith says:

    What a shower of weapons-grade fucktrumpets.

  4. gordoz says:

    Does the England supporter really sing ‘stick your independence up were arse’ ?
    Oooo errr mrs (never been expressed as a self gratifying sex toy before has it ?)

    Toxic trooper for BT !!

  5. David says:

    This video will win us independence.

  6. rabb says:

    I tweeted earlier on this.
     
    I didn’t factor in the £20 million the queen brings into the UK in tourism.
    Without this tourism money the UK is f***ed!! We’ll all be living on £10 giros!
     
    This is a blow to my indy plans so it’s a no from me now. Thank goodness we have these intellectual heavyweights enlightening us all. I mean who would have thought £20 million would have sunk a £1.2 trillion economy? Not me and no mistake mister!

  7. david says:

    will give wales nightmares, no wonder jones wants a no vote.

  8. dinnatouch says:

    Morons. They’ve got a collective IQ lower than the number of players on football pitch.

  9. david says:

    those poor people in dublin i worry about.

  10. gordoz says:

    I’m sure I heard Michael Kelly, John Reid, Brian Wilson & Jim Murphy all singing along to Rule Britania with Blair McD.

  11. With that stunning grasp of economics the guy in the England top must’ve been on the pre-liquidation board.

  12. Murray McCallum says:

    So who is standing in the No to Scotland queue with these real Scots?
     
    Is this a new approach by Blair McDougall’s campaign – all messages to be in sing-along-song?

  13. Indy_Scot says:

    Words fail me. I was an undecided voter I would actually vote Yes just the increase the average IQ of Scotland if nothing else.

  14. gillie says:

    If we are going to live off £10 giros then doesn’t that a currency union?

  15. Scotimus Prime says:

    I am not scared to admit I am ashamed at times to call myself a Rangers fan. Not because of the club (I love the club, obviously), but because people automatically assume I am one of these ignorant, non-thinking, Unionist

  16. pa_broon74 says:

    The thing is, you’re going to be criticised for putting this up.
     
    Which is wrong really, that they are Rangers supporters is irrelevant, its the attitude that matters here. Unionists would look at that and say ‘yeah but, that is the lunatic fringe, so not fair’ while at the same time claiming the entire Yes campaign + its supporters as some lunatic fringe (as we’ve heard recently.)
     
    You cannae win.

  17. James Kay says:

    England lets in a they f***** immigrants …
     
    Well, after March 1, 2016 – Independence Day – you’ll be at home there, because (from the English point of view) you’ll be one of those ‘f***** immigrants’!

  18. david says:

    father and son double act, awesome

  19. Scotimus Prime says:

    Bigots. I am not. And neither are the followers of my Facebook page. Rangers Supporters for an Independent Scotland.

  20. msean says:

    If they  think the loss of £20m would sink  an independent Scotland,you’re going to have a job on your hands convincing them they can be better off  independent than bettertogither.

  21. The Man in the Jar says:

    What a marvelous specimen!
     
    😆

  22. This is from a decent Press TV report which I watched a few weeks back but did not distribute around the Indy FB groups out of sheer embarrassment as we have supporters from around the world in the Indy F.B groups.

    I think there will be a lot of Gers fans [football fans not accountants] cringing watching this and most will not vote on the basis of what football team they support. The Orange Order said in 2007 that they would mobilise there membership to prevent an SNP Govt at Holyrood, how did that pan out for them?

    A lot of order members will vote on the issues rather than allegiance to the Queen and the order, a bit like Catholics and there adherence to papal [almost typed paypal] orders on contraception.

    Any Rangers fans out there reading this are most likely Indy supporters so I would urge them to pass on the following link to their fellow fans.

    Celtic & Rangers fans united for a YES vote https://www.facebook.com/CelticRangersFansUnitedForAYesVote?fref=ts

  23. gordoz says:

    Any Rangers fan who has a problem with this post is a complete brainwashed fuxkwit !
    Got to be a YES vote for undecided’s just to get these tossers of their Girofest and back home to blighty pronto surely !

  24. An Duine Gruamach says:

    It’s embarrassing to watch. 

  25. Scotimus Prime says:

    I am not scared to admit I am ashamed at times to call myself a Rangers fan. Not because of the club (I love the club, obviously), but because people automatically assume I am one of these ignorant, non-thinking, Unionist bigots. I am not. And neither are the followers ofy Facebook page Rangers Supporters for an Independent Scotland.
     
    I want to assure everyone that this moronic mentality is not shared by all who follow the light blues, and also not by all within the corridors at Ibrox. There is a new breed of fan coming through who believe in the principles the club was founded on, a Scottish team in a Scottish league.

  26. david says:

    I want to assure everyone that this moronic mentality is not shared by all who follow the light blues, and also not by all within the corridors at Ibrox. There is a new breed of fan coming through who believe in the principles the club was founded on, a Scottish team in a Scottish league.
     
    good to hear that

  27. Ron Burgundy says:

    Please send a gift wrapped copy of this to Mr Daugherty – he might be interested in the company he is keeping.

  28. Alex Taylor says:

    The numpty in the England tap advises Roshan Muhammed Salih to “go to Wales cause England are lettin awe they fuckin immigrants in”.

  29. msean says:

    I know some ‘Gers fans and they are not like this at all.

  30. david says:

    i dont think it would be quite so easy just upping sticks after a yes vote. firstly, the young man in question would have to sell his property, buy a new property in wales. move jobs from his position in the science industries to new employment in wales, but most of all it wont be easy to break emotional ties with his neighbours who must just adore him.

  31. lumilumi says:

    Isn’t this old news?
     
    I saw this clip a couple of months ago, linked from WoS comments, I think.
     
    Every independent country has its idiots.
     
    There are thousands of Finnish ice hockey fans just as tribal and stupid. It hasn’t prevented Finland from becoming a successful small independent country.
     
    (Though I don’t understand the guy sporting, shoving into the camera, the England badge. As a foreigner, maybe I don’t spot the accents? Maybe his accent was northern English, which would explain a lot?)

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    Didn’t make it to the end. I just felt so embarrassed for them. Concentrated stupid like this is toxic. “The Queen brings in £20m.” Good grief! The difficulty is in trying to make an economic case to people who are this economically innumerate.

    I work beside several Rangers fans and they are all good decent human beings. They would be absolutely horrified by this.

  33. ScottyC1314 says:

    Ahhhhh…..Sevco and their supporters….the gift that just keeps on giving

  34. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Quite a few WoS regulars don’t like football-related stuff, and aren’t shy about saying it. There must be many others among us who aren’t fond of wildlife documentaries. Few of either camp can be happy about this stuff.
     
    This footage was posted on WoS weeks ago, inside the original package, and it got about as much discussion as it deserved. Why is this extract being highlighted now? What’s the point?
     
    Let’s all laugh at the funny sweary-man?
     
    ‘Bear-baiting’ may be a pun of sorts, but sorry, that’s what it feels like. Those characters are profoundly damaged people, the result of a broken, sick, defensive community – they are part of the case for independence, whether they (or we) like it or not. Sooner or later they’ll have to live with what is happening – and we’ll have to get our heads around the fact that they will NOT just disappear, to Wales, England, or anywhere else.
     
    Jock Tamson’s bairns an’ aw that, eh?

  35. Murray McCallum says:

    david
    “move jobs from his position in the science industries”
     
    Yes, I had him down as an atomic. May explain the fixation with Wales?

  36. Seasick Dave says:

    The gentleman has a point, £20 million is a lot of money.
     
    I’m off to bed to ponder on it.

  37. HandandShrimp says:

    Maybe his accent was northern English, which would explain a lot?)
     
    LumiLumi
     
    No it was a Scottish accent.  I didn’t find it offensive. Kind of like a Finnish fan wearing a Russian top perhaps. It was way too weird to be offensive. Maybe he had an English dad or something. Maybe he was just confused, a chap at the back tried to calm him down. He knew that this was not going to look good.

  38. Alex Taylor says:

    @David
     
    dont think it would be quite so easy just upping sticks after a yes vote. firstly, the young man in question would have to sell his property, buy a new property in wales. move jobs from his position in the science industries to new employment in wales, but most of all it wont be easy to break emotional ties with his neighbours who must just adore him.
     
    I agree David I don’t think he’s thought through the whole family, work-life balance aspect of such a move and how it will effect those closest to him.
     
    Ya cheeky monkey

  39. Jock says:

    Scotland loss will be England’s gain. Hope the yes campaign use this as an Election broadcast.

  40. Calum Craig says:

    Utterly horrendous in every possible way imaginable.

  41. Somebody says:

    I’m not a football fan (refuse to associate myself with any sport, really and even I cringed at that. Quite frankly, it scares me that there are people like that in the world.

  42. Peter A Bell says:

    I think I sprained something cringing at this.

  43. faolie says:

    At least he didn’t say he was a proud Scot-but

  44. Mary Bruce says:

    Ahh, now I know who these vile, frothing brit-nats are over on the Better Together facebook page.  From now on every time I read one of their comments I will picture these guys. Hopefully the undecideds do the same.

  45. turnip_ghost says:

    I didn’t see the original post with this video but I just want to clear something up….

    They didn’t want 17/18 year olds to vote because THEY would be too easily swayed? (i.e too stupid)

    Well…To cheer you up after witnessing such…interesting opinions…. a dancing pug.

    http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr02/21/12/anigif_enhanced-buzz-25961-1385055442-5.gif

  46. Lobeydosser says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood.
    I agree with your comment Ian, its easy to make fun. Your compassion is an example to us all.

  47. Seventy one says:

    Wow, stunned! I know first hand where I live that these people are out there but you can never fail to be shocked at their level of ignorance ands stupidity!
     
    they put a smashing case forward for the union though eh!

  48. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Someone posted the other day that maybe it was time to sound the Braveheart Klaxxon. I had been thinking it had got to that stage too, and did some work turning the Braveheart Museum into a tool in the fight to win the Referendum.
    http://www.braveheart.co.uk

    It reaches a lot of the diaspora, where maybe we have been missing a trick.
    I did more work tonight, and put up a link on it to the Yes Scotland Crowd Funding Campaign –

    http://www.yesscotland.net/news/300-days-go-yes-scotland-launches-community-crowdfunding-campaign

    As this campaign asks for payment by PayPal, I am hopeful people of Scots ancestry will appreciate the chance to make a wee contribution to the future of the old country.

    I added a new link to Business for Scotland (to show I wasn’t totally a blue facepaint sort of a Nationalist)), but kept the link to Wings as the first link to where people can find out the truth.

    Feeling very pleased with myself, I uploaded the webpage, made a coffee, and went to have a look at what Wings was saying tonight.

    Watching the video at the top of this page through my fingers, I realised that the truth the diaspora will be seeing tonight on Wings is very ugly indeed.

  49. Keith Parry says:

    We dont want these idiots in Wales.Our First Minister is an idiot who wants to put nuclear submarines transferred from Scotland amongst the petrol and gas plants in Milford Haven. So when there is an accident or a madmen attack it, all of Pembrokeshire will  be blown off the face of the Earth.

    We in Wales are not so far up the road of independence as you are , but it will come.

    The New labour One Nation third rate Tory Party is just as useless in Wales as it was in Scotland. We will get rid of them and free our country as you are doing.

  50. msean says:

    I tried to register and it won’t let me sign in to that crowdfunding website.

  51. Famous15 says:

    Do not make fun of the afflicted. This is so sad and I blame the SNP for not investing more in mental  health. (Is he actually wearing a three Lions T shirt?)

  52. Tinyzeitgeist says:

    Lobeydosser says:
    21 November, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    @ Ian Brotherhood.
    I agree Well said. I pity these poor people, the sheer ignorance on display says a lot about our current economy, education system and media. This is a glaring example of why we must change through independence.  

  53. stonefree says:

    That was sad, embarrassing and worrying, all  at the same time

  54. James Morton says:

    Ouch – there goes my Brit-cringe again, need to lie down and take some paracetamol

  55. rabb says:

    stonefree says:
     

    That was sad, embarrassing and worrying, all  at the same time
     
    It was offensive to all 5 senses!

  56. Fairliered says:

    If these guys are the lunatic fringe where does that put Ian Davidson and George Foulkes? Beyond the fringe?

  57. Embradon says:

    I’m sure these are all proud Scotbuts.

  58. Bill C says:

    Interestingly this video turned up on my Facebook newsfeed. A young friend of the family not noted for his pro-independence views posted it. Judging by his comments and that of his mates the YES vote has just risen by thousands of votes.  No sane person wants to be associated with these sort of people.

  59. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    msean says:
    21 November, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    I tried to register and it won’t let me sign in to that crowdfunding website.

    I manged to get through the Bloom Crown Funding website OK in the end.

    At the first point where I was wanting to confirm the donation, it provided a link where I could go off and sign up for PayPal. I did this, which wasn’t too difficult, and then when I went back to the original donation page, it was still saying I hadn’t put in a valid PayPal email address (even though it was NOW). I remember seeing a link to a Profile (presumably the Bloom profile). I clicked on this, put the email address in the PayPal email field in the profile, and them somehow got back to the donation page. There was now a button for me to press to donate. I pressed it, then I remember at the next stage there was a bit where the advance payment details at PayPal were displayed on the left. At first I though I had nothing further to do, then I noticed an orange box on the lower right, that looked like it needed clicking to confirm to PayPal that I was agreeing to the displayed payment. I clicked it, and got a message saying I had donated etc.

    If you were somebody who was already set up for PayPal it would be easier, but in the end it wasn’t too difficult (in comparison to other things that people have had to endure in their Country’s cause).

    Errr …. where’s that bit of paper where I wrote down my new Bloom and PayPal passwords …?

  60. Hetty says:

    nightmare inducing for sure, lets hope we really really do gain Independence in 2014, christ knows what will happen if not. 20m from tourism re the royal family?  These people also equate Indy with ousting the Queen, much as that could be a very good idea, its not part of the debate or process so er where do these guys get this from? its ok I think we all know the answer to that. 

  61. Dcanmore says:

    That’s the real cringe right there. I like it when daddy bear says: “[Independence] it’ll happen anyway” as he tries to calm doon the wee baldy bear. But what you see in that video is the result of decades and decades of divide and conquer in Scotland perpetrated in the constituencies of protestant and catholic Labour MPs. In fact wee baldy bear should come down to London where I live and see if he can walk the length of Tottenham Court Road without tripping over a homeless person. Maybe he could knock on the door of his beloved Queen Lizzie’s hoose to put him up for the night in one of her many empty bedrooms that she don’t need to pay extra tax on. I’m sure she’ll appreciate the company of one of her ‘loyal’ subjects.

  62. Ian Brotherhood says:

    In all seriousness –
     
    If we’re talking about cringeworthiness, embarrassment etc, how does that footage compare with this:
     
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/dannyalexanderfoodbank1.jpg

  63. velofello says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood, nicely expressed.There are fools everywhere, some even are MPs!

  64. Glass Girl says:

    So to clarify, the queen brings in £20 million a year which is generously allocated for the sole purpose of running the entire Scottish economy? Given the population of Scotland is over 5 million just giving every person 1 of the £10 giros he mentioned per year would cost more than double that! Therefore even in this nutters mental alternate universe we’d still be better off independant! 😛

  65. ShredderIsAlive says:

    I’ll chip in for their tickets out of here after the Yes vote.

    Once those mutants are gone the collective IQ of Scotland will probably shoot up by 3 points.

  66. Alastair Naughton says:

    The real life Rab C Nesbitt! 

  67. gollygosh says:

    I hadn’t realised the case for staying in the Union was as persuasive as this.

  68. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This footage was posted on WoS weeks ago, inside the original package, and it got about as much discussion as it deserved. Why is this extract being highlighted now? What’s the point?”

    I don’t believe all of this was on the original. I could be wrong.

  69. BuckieBraes says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    I agree: they are damaged people (‘losers’, if you want to be unkind about it), and I don’t say that simply because they are expressing a view contrary to mine. In any case it’s hardly a valid opinion that is being voiced, as they scarcely seem to know their own minds. They have been conditioned by their surroundings and upbringing.
     
    How much respect does our society show these individuals – losers – on a day-to-day basis? You could quite possibly sit down with these guys in a room and (however undeserving it may seem) show them some of that unaccustomed respect; and within an hour convert them to supporting the independence of the country that, deep down, they know they really belong to.
     
    Mind you, they would then be about as much of an asset to the Yes side as they currently are to No, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it!

  70. X_Sticks says:

    Just imagine the society that produced these damaged people.
     
    Imagine the failed education. Family poverty. Alcoholism. Hopelessness.
     
    I don’t think we should view this as funny or sad, but as some of the challenges that await us as an independent Scotland. We need to fix the underlying problems in our society that created these ‘characters’. I’m not proud of everything in Scotland right now, but I want a Scotland where we can at least try to inject some hope for positive change.

  71. redcliffe62 says:

    Rab C Nesbitt is not a parody. People like that exist. Daddy bear was Rab in a few years time.
    A very simplistic message is needed for some.

    We subsidise England. Even the Tories agree.

    So… if Kuwait which has less oil than Scotland gave England all the oil dosh they had would they be stinking rich as they are now? Course not!

    This of course assumes people know where Kuwait is but I cannot dumb it down any more.

  72. ewen says:

    As I said on the other thread this is being sent to every unionist I know. None of them are rangers fans and if it makes them uneasy, then it is a plus. If it doesn’t then I’ll despair.
    I’ll also let my staff have a laugh at this. We work in D24…that is south Dublin. I have a few spare sleeping bags in the boot of the car in case any of them are finding it cold living on the street.
    That bam has probably never left Saltcoats except to go to a game on the supporters bus. How is he going to find England, let alone Wales. 

  73. lumilumi says:

    Thank you, Ian B, for your thoughtful words @ 10.48
     Those characters are profoundly damaged people, the result of a broken, sick, defensive community – they are part of the case for independence, whether they (or we) like it or not. Sooner or later they’ll have to live with what is happening – and we’ll have to get our heads around the fact that they will NOT just disappear, to Wales, England, or anywhere else.
     
    Jock Tamson’s bairns an’ aw that, eh?
     
    I think I was trying to say the same thing a bit earlier, but not as thoughtfully, when I referred to Finnish ice hockey fans and every country having it’s own idiots. No matter how good a country is, there will always be a residual of those who will not see (or think).
     
    However, independence isn’t just for the clever people.
     
    Most of all it’s for the disenfranchised, the downtrodden, the uninformed, or misinformed, the people without any prospects. An independent Scotland can make life better for them.
     
    So let’s not ridicule anybody. Not even the die-hard brainwashed brainless unionist, because maybe, just maybe, if a seed of truth is planted in his brain, he may be a FIF-YES voter in September. (For FIF voting, see:
    http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/the-fif/

  74. Triskel says:

    “If Scotland breaks up, she would go like Dublin”

    I know, it would be horrible to be part of one of the richest countires per capita in the world.

  75. the journeyman says:

    @ianbrotherhood @lumilumi Ok I take your points which are very valid cos these individuals are products of our society. However, this video has taken on new relevance since the Welsh FM stuck ‘es neb in so to speak, and I am sure he would welcome a fellow unionist/immigrant to Wales after a Yes vote. And the drunk guy behind the guy in the England shirt is a bit of an unconscious comedian, or maybe I mean he’s just a bit unconscious.

  76. fittie says:

    why didn`t he want to go to Northern Ireland

  77. Gray says:

    @redcliffe62
    Kuwait is between coo seven and coo nine 🙂

  78. crisiscult says:

    BuckieBraes: possibly true, and nice sentiment. Actually, I’m just back on here after a few days visiting a yes site and the BT site on facebook (had to sell my soul and set up an account). The tragic thing is that some of the more articulate people from this video appear to be regulars on the BT site, but there are also one or two of their cousins supporting yes. For any neutral/undecided visiting BT facebook, I think they’ll read a few posts and decide the best course of action is to leave the whole UK asap. I went to the BT site thinking it was time I stopped my selective exposure and got more in tune with what the other side are saying, because at the end of the day, I don’t have to make up my mind till next September. However, there are really very few ideas squeezing through the constant repetition of better together, building borders, Salmond is a liar and fat. 
     
    Having said all that, I was chatting to someone who claims to be an international socialist, but he wasn’t able to help me out with a query. Can anyone help here? I was wondering when Labour stopped supporting EMU and which unions were for EMU and when they dropped that. Relevance? Not entirely sure, but I’d love to know.

  79. Hazel Lewry says:

    Oh. My. Gods! Scarier than a beard full of bogies.

  80. Tris says:

    The benefits of free tertiary education.

  81. kininvie says:

    Best bit is the background music….

  82. Molly says:

    Sorry to go slightly Ot but on the football theme and apologies if this has already been discussed but just catching up
    ‘our loss England’s gain etc’ 2 points-while too lazy to turn the TV over, noticed a report on SKY sport that West Ham have started work to replace the roof on the Olympic stadium.
    £200million it’s to cost
    £15million from West Ham
    £40million from Newham Council
    £38million Olympic Delivery Authority(included in the original construction budget)
    An undisclosed sum thought to be around £60million from Westminster Govt 
    I can only assume the shortfall is from private investment but for any really committed football fans here could anyone explain to me why ‘more Govt’ money ( ie yours and mine) is being spent on what is in effect a private company, why a year old stadium requires approx £200 million to be spent on it, whilst  foodbanks are being opened in every town ?
    On the same theme, the House of Lords(18th of Nov) discussed the Olympic Legacy.
    The report highlighted ‘ the uneven distribution of economic benefit of the Games.
    ‘Govt figures claim £2.5 billion of additional foreign direct investment had been secured since the Games resulting in 31.000 jobs.
    London S/E -nearly 15,000
    East Midlands-51
    North East-7 
    ‘Also of the investment secured since the Games just 21.5million or 1% has benefitted Wales
    £716million S/East England
    Over 1billion for London itself’
    Sorry for the long post but I can’t link but the above info is from ‘Inside The Games’
    I’m actually ashamed of this, some children are being fed via food banks and this is what our taxes are going on?

  83. wee162 says:

    The most amusing thing to me there is the aulder boy (rocketdad?) saying he’ll be away to England. I’m sure a warm welcome will greet him and his Diego Maradona t-shirt! 

  84. James says:

    Dear oh dear – seems like Rangers fans have found a way to reverse evolution at a faster rate than ever

  85. Thepnr says:

    @Molly
     
    Now that’s politics and should be discussed, football is just a side issue to be discussed on Sunday over a pint. It’s all about priorities.

  86. Alastair Naughton says:

    Interesting though, the old guy says, if you listen carefully, that “it’ll happen anyway!” (meaning independence). Somehow I’m sure that’s not in Blair McDougall’s script, or Alistair Darling’s for that matter, or even Alistair Carmichael’s! 

  87. J. R. Tomlin says:

    We’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns–even the idiots. The chances are that somehow the Scots will have to live together after the referendum and these *cough* gentlemen will have to learn to live with Scotland being independent, because the chances are they are going to be around for a while. But there is no doubt that the system that has lowered them to this level is an argument FOR independence. 

  88. ron 17 says:

    This could have been filmed at any match in Scotland,uninformed msm readers drunk showing off to the camera.An easy piece to get at a Rangers game,im a Rangers for INDY SUPPORTER lots of us would have expressed a different view if filmed.Im presently working on people who crave more info,things that we wings readers take for granted.One guy [labour supporter]says hes dieing to vote YES,but wants specific answers.When asked he pointed to last years underspend[£179million]and what has happened to this money.When I went back to him with an answer he seemed pretty satisfied,my point is small but important questions to the undecieded need to addressed.If we the as wingspeople listen to the undecieded,provide the answers the tide will turn.

  89. Keef says:

    Agree with Ian’s sentiments.
     
    I suppose it is one of the drawbacks of Wings- Stu does have an anal fixation on all things Rangers.
     
    Must have been a slow day and nothing political to write about eh Stu?
     
    Calgacus – you have my sympathy if this dross (which was highlighted before) has spoiled any of your hard work.

  90. joe kane says:

    The familiar reactionary “Alf Garnett” British working-class sentiments, along with the usual anti-Catholic, anti-Irish animus beloved of certain elements in the Ibrox fraternity who think they’re a cut above the objects of their hatred despite also occupying the bottom of the social pile with them, and both of them kept there by the Labour Party unionist system of patronage and power in Scotland.

    It’s strange how things change. Rangers fans, once upon a time, were regarded as the core support of the Scotland national team. Who could ever have predicted that Rangers fans would end up wearing England shirts? I think there’s still a wee bit of that residual dislike of the idea of England by the England-shirt wearing Rangers fan in the video though, who would rather live in Wales than England if Scotland goes indy.

  91. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Words fail me

    I had a full on attack of the Scottish cringe watching that.

    Need to lie down, and I only just got up.

  92. Craig M says:

    Keef and Ian.
    I understand where you are coming from, however, not being a football person myself, I do think that the sentiment expressed in the video should be shown and shown again. It has to be understood that Rangers are a Unionist cornerstone in Scotland. Being a little bit of an intellectual snob, I actually find it difficulty to even acknowledge that strange, sad fact. In life I’ve actually come across the sort of thinking expressed in the video and miles away from Govan.

    What I believe the video demonstrates is the depths to which some parts of Scottish society have been allowed to sink to by the Establishment. Any right thinking state, and I’m referring to the UK, should be embarrassed with this. Education? I think it’s failed. Lifting people out of ignorance? Failed. Creating a fair and compassionate society? Failed. Allowing people to identify with what is important in life? Failed. 

    Others better placed than me have mentioned that this behaviour and way of thinking has been allowed to continue, if not prosper, in some Labour controlled areas in the west of Scotland. I can actually believe that to be true, after all ignorance benefits those in power. Can’t have the prolls thinking, after all. 

    This is a symptom. There is a cure. 

  93. Alba4Eva says:

    To be honest with Stu, I really don’t see the merit in giving this airtime… at least not in the context of the independence debate.  The individuals in the video are clearly drunk and talking utter sheit, even though the IQ levels make it difficult to tell just how drunk they are.   I understand that there are intelligent (at least normally intelligent) people who bizarrely share similar views (I even work beside some), but the numbers of those with views shaped by sectarianism and division is remarkably small as a percentage of 5 million Scots.  I meet far more people each day (including Rangers fans), who would feel equally sorry for the folk in the video.  
    The video just makes me glad that I had a good upbringing and got a good education.

  94. mealer says:

    Its good to see these guys are engaged in the debate.

  95. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    On the contrary, I am sure that the England top would be bot welcome and easily find a job in Wales or even England.
    I think there must be some Uni or private lab looking for volunteers, now that animal testing is difficult.

  96. Seasick Dave says:

    I fully expect Call Kaye to be bringing up the granny allegations and the £20 million on her show today.
     
    Moreover, did anyone catch Reporting Scotland (late version) last night where they had coverage of FMQs and the outrageous slurs by Johann Lamont comparing AS to Enron executives. What was worse was, while the coverage was going on, the BBC cut to images of Enron buildings to reinforce the connection.
     

  97. Juteman says:

    Any regular football fan will have met the likes of these folk many times.
    It is one of the joys of having The Rangers visit your town.

  98. JLT says:

    The Queen brings in £20 million pounds. If it wasn’t for her, we would be f*****.’
     
    Ah, the Flower of the Union …ensconced in his England top, and enunciating his deep and profound knowledge of the finances that drive Britain onwards and upwards. I’m really glad to know that this ‘£20 million pounds’ is tackling that debt of £1.5 Trillion. Whew …life saver!
     
    But, seriously …it’s one of the first things I would do. Teach Scottish History properly to the next generation of kids in this country. From the age of 5 onwards until they are 16, I would make sure that they knew every key event, and it’s meaning. The sooner they learn that King William of Orange was not ‘God’, but a man on the make, then hopefully, we can end this twisted and distorted vision of ‘British’ history. The only thing about the ‘Glorious Revolution’ that was glorious, was that it gave birth to ‘constitutional monarchy’ and took us away from ‘absolute monarchy’. The rest of William’s reign is an absolute sham.
     
    And by teaching our kids proper Scottish History …we never have to put up with the knuckledraggers, as seen in that video, ever again. Hopefully, within 2 generations, this nonsense is wiped out.

  99. Ian says:

    Nice to know the spawn of the Stratchclyde Labour Mafia is alive and well. That’s what Better Together wants everybody in Scotland to be like. Such high aspiration for our country!  Well, to put it in Rangers speech, they cin aw git tae fuck… 

  100. Juteman says:

    At a family funeral, the subject of the referendum came up at the reception afterwards.
    A distant relative, who I hadn’t spoken to for years, was a vociferous NO!
    When I asked him why, his explanation was an eye opener, as he seems a normal type of bloke. Maybe his reasoning was due to his advancing years.
    He married an Irish girl, and visited Dublin a few times in the ’50’s. Some folk seemingly kept horses in their gardens.
    “That’s what would happen if we voted Yes”, he said. “Horses in your gardens! In a capital city!”
    I gave up after that.

  101. john king says:

    David says
    “i dont think it would be quite so easy just upping sticks after a yes vote. firstly, the young man in question would have to sell his property, buy a new property in wales.”

    Effin hysterical David
    but you raise a good point there
    just how much does a cardboard box under the Kingston bridge go for these days? 
    ps missing him already

  102. JLT says:

    Scotimus Prime says:     
     
    I am not scared to admit I am ashamed at times to call myself a Rangers fan.
     
    ———————
     
    Mate, I know many Rangers fans (I live in Livi …the 5 team town!). Believe me, there are many, many Rangers fans who are just like ourselves, and live normal lives. The ones in that video are just illiterate thugs.
    I know of Rangers fans who are ‘Yes’ supporters, and I am convincing 2 others who, at present, sit on the fence.
    Every team has brainless halfwit followers. Years ago, I went to Inverness to watch Livingston win the First Division title, and thus, get promoted to the Premier.
    I had arrived the night before, and so was in a popular pub at lunchtime having a meal before the game. Up pulled a bus from Livingston, off poured the Livi supporters who were all drunk to the eyeballs, and straight into the same pub that I was in.  
     
    Within a minute, a group of them decided to sing, ‘You’re only sheep sha**ing b*******
     
    Straightaway, cursing and swearing from a group of Caley supporters. The owner had no choice. He bumped them out of his pub.
     
    I sat there with my friend, shaking my head. Livingston is a long way away from Inverness. Going home nursing a hangover, a broken nose and a black eye doesn’t sound like my idea of fun. I just sat there and thought ,’Why? Why would you come all that way, just to sing songs to really rile the Caley fans? Why?’
     
    It beats me!
     

  103. Seasick Dave says:

    Juteman
     
    You should have pointed out that it happens under the Union in England too 🙂
     
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047839/Plague-pet-horses-Bailiffs-town-people-kept-ponies-gardens.html

  104. john king says:

    Ian Brotherhood says
    “Let’s all laugh at the funny sweary-man?”
    Nobody made him speak to the reporter Ian, a little self awareness would have saved the “sweary man” from making a total arse on himself,

    There are some who can speak on camera and come across well, (your good self) and then there are some who when they see a reporter and a camera who should run a mile in the opposite direction(I include myself ) I got interviewed on Cowdenbeath high street years ago about the Blue Brazils dismal performance, and babbled incoherent nonsense

  105. Heather McLean says:

    Absolutely astonished at the level of ignorance shown in this video clip! Just wondering if any of them were former pupils of Johann Lamont? hahaha!

  106. DaveyM says:

    Someone I was at schools with (and who now lives and works in London) posted this video on Facebook last night.  I got to about 30 seconds before i had to switch it off.  Urgh :-/

  107. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    what a great idea, film a couple of morons and extrapolate that to all rangers fans,  morons are morons whether they vote yes or no, do you seriously think that the yes side have no morons?
    This article has left a bad taste in my mouth not because of the morons, they can’t help it, but for them to be used by this site in an attempt to rile up other morons is beneath contempt, when I come up against no voters I normally point them to this site to get some truth and perspective on the scaremongering stories, this makes me reluctant to do so, I am trying to sell the idea of a fairer and more just Scotland following independence, this is just nasty.

  108. john king says:

    Peter Bell says
    “I think I sprained something cringing at this.”
    Well your right Peter,
    since 1707 Scots have a well developed cringe muscle 
    and for some that muscle is so large it takes over their entire body and spend their entire waking lives cringing
    kinda like an uncontrollable sphincteral spasm      
     

  109. turnbull drier says:

    @ Seasick Dave
     
    I notice this too… I beginning to wonder if that’s now the point of FMQ’s for Jaylo..
    She has no argument that she can win so a cheeky wee soundbite along with some collusion and nice graphics from the BBC and job done. 

    @Gray – I’ll get your coat 😛

  110. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland and BBC Radio Scotland find it impossible to say ANYTHING positive about Scotland or the Scottish people.

    They go out of their way to find a sound bite that will put a negative slant on anything the Scottish Government is doing.

    Staff at BBC Scotland should hang their heads in shame.

    You know who you are.

  111. Krackerman says:

    O.T. but am I the only one watching the news this morning and seeing next to no reaction from the media that the UK government and armed forces ran an execution/death squad and agent provocateur team on British soil?? Is no one else stunned and outraged at this?

    Where else have they done this? If they were happy to murder British citizens in the early ’70’s without any judicial process do we really believe it’s not going on now?
     

  112. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “what a great idea, film a couple of morons and extrapolate that to all rangers fans”

    Except, of course, that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY HAS ATTEMPTED TO EXTRAPOLATE IT TO ALL RANGERS FANS.

  113. john king says:

    Grey says
    “Kuwait is between coo seven and coo nine”
     
    I’ll get your coat 

  114. john king says:

    Hazel Lewry says
    “Scarier than a beard full of bogies.”
     
    Gee thanks Hazel that’s never going to leave me. 🙁

  115. john king says:

    Turnbull drier says
    “@Gray – I’ll get your coat ”
     
    DOH

  116. david says:

    these people deserve to be exposed

  117. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    “Except, of course, that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY HAS ATTEMPTED TO EXTRAPOLATE IT TO ALL RANGERS FANS.”
    Instead of shouting at me, tell me the point of this video, and then look at the comments that it has raised on your site EXTRAPOLATING IT TO ALL RANGERS FANS.

  118. That’ll be Blair providing the tuba accentuation, presumably.

  119. john king says:

    Me says
    “I got interviewed on Cowdenbeath high street years ago about the Blue Brazils dismal performance, and babbled incoherent nonsense.
    And the bastards aired it, my wife videoed it, and insisted on showing the clip to everyone who came to our house, 
    people stopped coming to our house after that and crossed the street when they saw me coming, and we never got another Christmas card, I’ve never spoken to a reporter since, that 15 second clip ruined my life and turned me into the hermit I am today,
    people take it from me,
    talk to a camera at your peril 🙁

  120. joe kane says:

    Speaking of the Labour Party exploiting reactionary working class sentiments for its own ends, David Blunkett was recently caught doing his Enoch Powell impression. Apparently there aren’t 50,000 Roma living in the UK, as previously thought, but 200,000! How will the other 63 million British people cope with this added burden I wonder?

    Reference –
    David Blunkett riot fear over Roma migrant tensions
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24909979

  121. JLT says:

    Cliff,
    I think you’re missing part of the message here. I have posted a couple of things here, and if you check my comments, in no way, have I slandered Rangers or Rangers fans in general. In another post, I mentioned that Livingston has a few idiots …and that is considered a safe family club!
     
    What we have in that video, is people who are living by a twisted delusional history. King Billy is not ‘God’. He was a man on the make, and within time, he damaged Scotland badly during the Darien affair.
    It’s this entrenched twisted history that blights Scotland. If we highlight it, and show that we are not afraid to discuss it, then we are half way to solving the problem.
    Believe me, Celtic fans are just as bad when it comes to Irish history. For me, I wish the whole ‘Ireland’ thing would be dropped by Celtic, and thus just promote themselves as a true Scottish club.  Hibs, Hearts are the same, but on a lesser scale. They also sing sectarian songs. Aberdeen fans are just mental!
     
    You just have to watch that video to realise, that this is not about Rangers, but the sectarianism that scourges Scotland to this day. That video could easily be replaced with one with Celtic fans who sing the Soldiers song or promote the IRA.
    As I said, I would teach our kids the real history of this country, and once they know it, they will realise that William of Orange, as well as the Irish troubles have nothing to do with Scotland. 

  122. alexicon says:

    @Ron 17.
     
    Great work. I know a few Rangers fans that are for YES.
    Keep up the good work, you’re doing a grand job.

  123. JLT says:

    Cliff,
    I should also add, that the clip is from a 30 minute film, which looked at sectarianism between the Glasgow giants. I have seen the whole film, and you can easily watch it all on Youtube. Just look up ‘Old Firm documentaries’ and you’ll find it there.
     
    This was not filmed by anyone on this site, let alone, Stuart.
     
    What the film showed, as I said in my previous post, is that sectarianism blights Glasgow, as well as the West Coast. Seriously, mate …this is not an attack on Rangers, or the vast majority of Rangers Fans. Every single one of us knows Rangers fans. I know many who are decent hardworking guys, but I also know a few that leave me uneasy. Same with Celtic fans, Hearts Fans, Hibs fans …and yes, even Livi fans. 

  124. Les Wilson says:

    Improvement in livings standards and education are the only solution to folks like these. It will not be an overnight job by any means, but would offer the only real hope that could rid our country of such ignorance.

  125. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    JLT
    I see no benefit in introducing sectarianism into the independence debate which showing  this video attempts to do, if you had asked the morons in that video questions about anything, they would have given a moronic answer.
    Can we extrapolate George Galloway’s view that an independent Scotland will close all catholic schools and persecute Catholics, to be a view held by all Celtic supporters,no we can’t, because it’s moronic.
    And to reiterate the point about extrapolating this morons views to Rangers fans, the title of the video is “Glasgow Rangers fans on Scottish Independence”
    So would The Rev Campbell be happy to show George Galloway expressing his view in a video entitled Glasgow Celtic supporters view on independence.
     
    I think not.
     Cliff
     

  126. Kenny Campbell says:

    Actually a few of the comments casually attribute this ‘mindset’ to Rangers fans in general but its easy for you to ignore this as its not you who is targeted and easy for me to get pissed off by it.
     
     I think you need to READ THE COMMENTS again, this whole area of Rangers is such an obvious weakness for you. I laugh when I see an otherwise sensible person being bent out of shape. You should recognise this aspect of your personality and when it happens you can say inwardly “I’m not like this”. Its a great way of removing antipathy from your life. Your automatic internalising of this having read what I said is that these guys are nuts so I should hate them, as I share none of their values.  I agree with 100% with that rationalization but by allowing them this place in your values it gives them credibility.
     
    These guys are a product of the divide and rule strategy. Their comments are completely incoherent. Its all soundbites, immigrants, anti IRA, pro England, subsidized, Anti Irish but bizarrely pro Wales. Listen to the case they put, none of it is thought through. There is no substance to the belief. Its first and foremost a set of ‘values’ but its values not based on any real evidence or self discovery. Its values based on what you hear and what others tell you. I doubt if these guys put a moments thought into any of their life values. Its just the way their surroundings were and they moulded themselves into that. Its actually evolutionary adaptability in a social sense and its quite a good survival technique.  I suspect in most but not all of their daily lives they are often exposed to physical danger of violence. Thus they seek identity as it often gives a sense of safety.There will be one of two hangers on who have little daily threat but who actually just enjoy being part of a group.
     
    This is tribalism which is attached to Rangers the football club as a hub to the beliefs, its could just as easily be another club, a political party or a geographic location. There are plenty of folk like them and its predominantly a working class issue….Indoctrination is like an early inheritance from your parents.
     
    Some of us do however grow out of it but some of us don’t.  I do however believe its a dwindling DNA strand in the general population.
     
    Personally I think it is a reasonable input to the independence debate. These people exist and they mostly vote Labour. If you can swing enough of them you can win. Its good to know who or ‘what’ you are dealing with.

  127. DougieDouglas says:

    o
    m
    f
    g

  128. Robbie says:

     Fib /Dum Nichol Stephens will be so proud of the monkey wearing the Engerlund tap.

  129. Albalha says:

    @Alex Taylor
    Roshan Mohammed Salih from Press TV was born in Wales to Welsh, Sri Lankan parents.
     
    As I’ve said before about this footage I’d like to hear a bit more of the set up questions. Not to excuse what’s said but to give a little more context.
     
    I realise folks seem to think Press TV is the bees knees I happen not to share that view. No less biased for their own ends than anything broadcaster.
     
    Not a great fan either of pointing the finger at people for the sake of it. And no I don’t support Rangers.

  130. R Brown says:

    The intellect of the people in this “film” really shows how some people should not be allowed to have an opinion one guy wearing an England shirt is shouting about rule britania maybe someone should point out that England is part of Britain not all of it , in my opinion the guy may speak with a scottish accent ( slang at best) but has not got an ounce of Scottishness about him , it people like this who drag down the name of Glasgow Rangers, Scotland and the UK , well if independence does come I will personally and happily show him the border as he heads south to his glorious love England

  131. TheGreatBaldo says:

    OT……I see the Daily Express has scare story of the day…..yes folks Border Posts !!!
     
     

  132. Fudgefase says:

    Which school playing field is it they were playing at that week?

  133. caz-m says:

    Here is a slightly different take on the Independence debate from Anorak TV.

    Also click on the Braveheart animation for a laugh.

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/308453/politicians/scottish-independence-gets-the-taiwan-animation-treatment-jimmy.html/

  134. DougieDouglas says:

    You cannot group all Rangers fans together – i know plenty of them a couple of them that are nationalists.
    What you are seeing on this video are the those that have been abused the most by the British State.  They come from an economic backwater, a place where unemployment is endemic and opportunity is rare,  a world that bounces between the petty tribalism of RFC a good bevvy, giros and little else. 
    These people cannot be won over to our side and we should resist the temptation to lambast and take the piss out of them – they are victims and display a Stockholm-esq mindset.
    They are our fellow Scots and we need patience when dealing with them, they have been brainwashed and abused over centuries.

  135. Davy says:

    Now you see what happens when you sniff cheap glue, but at least we know we can wave goodbye to this two students of unionist politics in the near future, as they travel over the border to pastures new.
     
    They are a credit to the union.

  136. scaredy cat. says:

    Despite being saddened by this, and despite knowing that it might urge some voters over to the yes side, I don’t want to risk sharing it with my family and friends.
    I know too many people who are afraid of a yes result for fear of a backlash from idiots like this. 

  137. JLT says:

    Cliff,
    I see no benefit in introducing sectarianism into the independence debate which showing  this video attempts to do, if you had asked the morons in that video questions about anything, they would have given a moronic answer.
     
    In all honesty, yes, I agree. I see no benefit in introducing sectarianism into the independence debate. I have said this also on previous posts and yes, I don’t like it.

    However, from my own personal point of view (and probably everyone else too), the folk in that video, represent an element that the BT mob hope to exploit, and thus, try to convince the vast majority of Rangers fans to vote ‘No’. 

    It’s sheer nonsense, of course! The vast majority of Rangers fans are not like the idiots in that video, and given time, and the proper information, they will sit, ponder, and decide for themselves which way to vote. No normal person who follows Rangers (or any other club for that matter), is going to listen to a bunch of halfwits like those in that video.
     
    So would The Rev Campbell be happy to show George Galloway expressing his view in a video entitled Glasgow Celtic supporters view on independence.
     
    I’m sure if such a video existed, then yes, I believe Stuart would show it. If it showed Celtic fans or anyone promoting their own faith above the rights of the people of Scotland just like in the article – http://wingsoverscotland.com/careful-now/ in which Hugh Dougherty made insidious claims that all Catholics should beware of the Independence movement, then, yes, I believe Stuart will publish it (just as he did there).
     
    Cliff. No one here is slagging off Rangers. Yes, the video said ‘Glasgow Rangers fans on Scottish Independence”, but as we all know, there is an element in both Rangers and Celtic that leaves the vast majority of us uneasy. As I said, it is the folk in that video, that the likes of Labour and BT hope will cause such discord amongst normal folk, that it will either poison the waters, or put people off from voting.

    But overall, Cliff; like yourself, I would rather not discuss football in the Independence debate. If it arises, mate, take a deep breath, and either just let it pass over you, or just refuse to read that post.

  138. sneddon says:

    CLIFF – Some people are ignorant especially with a few drinks in them, some folk may not be be politically aware as others, some folk may be the product of their upbringing, some folk of these support football teams, some of them may be Rangers fans, Get over it.  No one is saying all Gers fans are like those in the video (Far from it)  
    If you have questions for the Rev ask him via the contact form and stop posting ‘whataboutry’ in a vain attempt to deflect from the point of this article and the comments.  No one from those who are YES inclined is introducing sectarianism into this debate that’s the job of Britnats such as BT and Galloway and accusing this video as in any way ‘introducing’ sectarianism is a mindfuck of the highest order.  You, my friend, have your own agenda.

  139. Famous15 says:

    I had a Godwin moment.
    An Austrian thinking he was German and getting very angry at folks who did not agree with him…..

  140. sneddon says:

    Famous15- 🙂 🙂 🙂

  141. JLT says:

    Sneddon.
     
    ‘You, my friend, have your own agenda’
     
    …does not help! That is just adding fuel to the fire.
     
    Discuss and explain, but outbursts like that will only cause further aggravation and increase discord.

  142. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think you need to READ THE COMMENTS again, this whole area of Rangers is such an obvious weakness for you. I laugh when I see an otherwise sensible person being bent out of shape. You should recognise this aspect of your personality and when it happens you can say inwardly “I’m not like this”.”

    (1) I’m not responsible for the comments. They’re people’s honest expressions of what they feel. You have the exact same right to express your feelings that they do.

    (2) Can we put this to bed once and for all? You act as if I’m somehow fooling myself, but the plain and demonstrable truth is that I’ve NEVER made any bones on this site about my distaste for the Old Firm and their supports. I think both clubs are a cancer on Scottish society, and if there was a single thing we could do to make our nation a far better place overnight it would be to outlaw them both. I’ve spoken strongly and repeatedly in favour of the OB(F)A, and I’ve written in detail of how I’ve regarded both groups as aliens since childhood – something absolutely nobody told me to do. I didn’t hang out with other Aberdeen fans, nobody in my family is very bothered about football. Everything I think about the subject I arrived at by myself.

    Even if you take sectarianism out of the picture altogether, I loathe the bully mindset that goes with following either of them. I despise the ugly, sneering, triumphalist gloating that inexplicably accompanies managing to beat the likes of East Fife or Raith Rovers when you’ve got literally 50 times their resources, like Mike Tyson bragging about beating up a six-year-old in a wheelchair. When I watch the players dancing around like drunk idiots at Hampden because they’ve managed to overcome Queen Of The South or someone, I just think “Of COURSE you beat them, they’re fucking binmen doing this for a hobby. Have a bit of dignity and respect.”

    (It’s worse still watching them celebrate a league flag. At least in a cup competition one off-day can get you knocked out. But in a league, having twice as much money as every other team put together will always tell in the end.)

    I can’t stand the cries of “Oh, it’s just a minority who are bigot scum”, when you hear thousands belting out their songs of ancient hatred in foreign lands and not a single voice from the supposed majority booing or hissing or shouting them down. I don’t see thousands of gaps in the stands when Rangers fans hold up cards to turn the stadium into a giant Union Jack.

    I’m tired of listening to the endless justifications of all-out blatant cheating, and it makes me sick that the media colludes in the lies out of fear and greed. If you can’t see the parallels between how the Scottish media and establishment in general treats Rangers and Celtic and how it treats the Union, I despair of everything I’ve done here in the last two years.

    Are there decent Rangers and Celtic fans? Of course there are, lots of them. Do I nevertheless despise both institutions utterly? Yes. And if people choose to attach themselves to both of those institutions, in full awareness of the baggage they carry with them and the sort of people they’re aligning themselves with, then they should accept the downside – a minor bit of carping on a website now and again – too. Nobody’s got a gun to your head. People the world over are judged by the company they keep. Deal with it.

  143. Tattie-Boggle says:

    This video just shows  the products of the Union in action. The classic Imperial weapon, keep them drunk keep them uneducated keep them divided. And with a lot of help from the labour party Job done.

  144. Taranaich says:

    I’m more with Ian Brotherhood and lumilumi than anything: I just feel immense sadness knowing the deprivation of education and enlightenment which led them to this sorry state. But an uneducated population is a servile population, as certain governments know.

    @CLIFF MCCABE: I see no benefit in introducing sectarianism into the independence debate which showing  this video attempts to do

    As you go on to say, sectarianism is already introduced into the independence debate. Racism, too, with the whole “real Scots” nonsense alleging an ethnic dimension to the Yes campaign which doesn’t exist. Pretty sure sexism, genderism, every other “ism” has been brought up too. Everything is involved in the independence debate, that’s the point of independence. It’s about how we, as a country, address every aspect of society – equal rights & opportunities, education, finance, science.
     
    Right now, the Scottish government has powers to address the sectarian issue. An independent Scotland would have more powers – and devolved powers can always be repealed by the UK government.

  145. Kenny Campbell says:

    ” I don’t see thousands of gaps in the stands when Rangers fans hold up cards to turn the stadium into a giant Union Jack.”
     
    LOL, you are just like them but in a mirror image….Pavlov’s dog…
     
    There people are Scottish, you set yourself up as a proud Scot…. “ People the world over are judged by the company they keep.”
     
    Maybe its why you moved….

  146. Ron Maclean says:

    Similar offensive boorish behaviour by opposition politicians is televised and admired by the BBC most Thursdays.  We pay for it and the Herald rewards it. 

  147. ayemachrihanish says:

    Well said Rev,
    And, “Nobody’s got a gun to your head. People the world over are judged by the company they keep” AND their actions.
     

  148. sneddon says:

    JLT – I think CLIFF posts speak for themselves otherwise what he’s saying makes no sense and yes I do think he’s writing with his own agenda, it might be a sense of total loyalty to his club or something else but I think he’s taking the video and the comments in the wrong way.  I’ve given up trying to second guess whether my posts ‘add fuel to the fire’ I apply the same rules when I’m speaking in the pub to when writing on line and that includes that someone, somewhere will always get annoyed or take it the wrong way.(possibly due to my lack of writing skills) And to be honest I consider a bit of discord is ok and healthy because we want to avoid the ‘groupthink’ mentality.  I’d rather have a robust argument with another YES supporter(ending with a pint and a laugh, metaphorically speaking) than to end up spouting the coordinated nonsense we get from the Britnats online.  Maybe I just gobby tho’ 🙂

  149. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    Sneddon
    You have just proved my point, and for the record, I have no interest in football, if I want to see millionaires playing a game, i will watch prime ministers question time, in the context of my comments I only have one agenda, pursuit of Scottish Independence, which I don’t like to see contaminated either by the Rev Stuart Campbell’s obsession with all things Rangers or the likes of George Galloway’s attempts to portray independence as anti catholic.

    I have no need to contact “the rev” to ask questions I can read and understand information very nicely, and my perception of this article is not for you to either decide or deride. If you or “the rev” prefer not to face questioning of your intent then don’t post on an open forum.

    Again I will repeat my main point to you, if this is not intended to portray all Rangers fans as the same, why is the video titled “Glasgow Rangers fans on Independence” and not “two moronic football supporters being morons”

  150. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I realise folks seem to think Press TV is the bees knees I happen not to share that view. No less biased for their own ends than anything broadcaster.”

    No, I agree with that completely. But in the absence of balance, at least getting BOTH biased sides of the story is some sort of substitute.

  151. John H. says:

    Ian Brotherhood. I’ve built up a lot of respect for you from reading your posts over many months, and I, like most people who read this site will agree with you at heart.

    You are obviously a compassionate and sensitive man, but surely you can see that sometimes we have to laugh at these things, or burst into tears. People such as these are among the reasons why we are all fighting so hard to get independence.

  152. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You are obviously a compassionate and sensitive man, but surely you can see that sometimes we have to laugh at these things, or burst into tears. People such as these are among the reasons why we are all fighting so hard to get independence.”

    Precisely. It’s in the “And Finally” section, for goodness’ sake.

  153. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “if this is not intended to portray all Rangers fans as the same, why is the video titled “Glasgow Rangers fans on Independence” and not “two moronic football supporters being morons””

    I didn’t title the clip. But even so, it’s factually perfectly accurate – they ARE “Glasgow Rangers fans” and they ARE talking about independence.

    “That man has brown hair” is not the same statement as “all men have brown hair”, and if you said “IT’S DISGUSTING THAT BY SAYING THAT MAN HAS BROWN HAIR YOU’RE SAYING ALL MEN HAVE BROWN HAIR” you’d sound a bit daft.

    “I have no need to contact “the rev” to ask questions I can read and understand information very nicely”

    Frankly that doesn’t seem to be true.

  154. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “LOL, you are just like them but in a mirror image….Pavlov’s dog…

    There people are Scottish, you set yourself up as a proud Scot…. “ People the world over are judged by the company they keep.”

    Maybe its why you moved….”

    I have no idea what any of that means. I’ve never in my life called myself a “proud Scot”, nor would I. I don’t believe there are any grounds for pride in where you happened to be born. I’m glad to be a Scot, but I’m not proud of it, because it had sod-all to do with me.

  155. Kenny Campbell says:

    “People such as these are among the reasons why we are all fighting so hard to get independence.”
     
    The best point on this whole article. Deep breath and think about this. It’s all we need to know.

  156. HandandShrimp says:

    The most depressing thing about the video clip is that Saltcoats, Ardrossan and Stevenson are blighted with social deprivation and high unemployment. There is a strong socialist tradition there, as is ably demonstrated by Ian and Katy Clark who is one of the better Labour MPs in my book, but it is profoundly disturbing to see people extol the virtues of privilege and the elite when they thenselves see their hopes and dreams crushed at every turn. To internalise the values of those that care not whether you live or die is the ultimate nilhism. I suppose they might respond that it is at least something and that without this cultural artefact of loyalism/tribalism they would have absolutely nothing at all. The challenge is to replace that vision with something rather more positive and constructive….easier said than done sadly.
     
    The programme was made by Press TV and somewhat ironically some of the main UK presenters on that channel is George Galloway and Tony Blair’s sister in law Booth.

  157. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The intellect of the people in this “film” really shows how some people should not be allowed to have an opinion “

    Everyone should be allowed to have an opinion. It’s also perfectly fair to highlight that opinion.

  158. Greannach says:

    That’s an impressive level of stupidity and ignorance on display there. They remind me of the types who came to the fore in the former East Germany and all over the former Soviet colonies after the collapse of the Berlin Wall. It’s worth showing this video as this lot can’t be the only clutch of weirdos out there. I wonder if their level of argument isn’t more appealing to a lot more people than the complex reasoning of people like Lesley Riddoch who don’t speak or think in slogans.

  159. Kenny Campbell says:

    I’m glad to be a Scot, but I’m not proud of it, because it had sod-all to do with me.
     
    fair enough.

  160. Big Red Machine says:

    A work colleague recently confessed her worries about a backlash from people like this following a Yes vote and I couldn’t straighten up for an hour. I explained that for any sort of ‘backlash’ activity there has to be a certain amount of energy which involves the burning of calories. Judging by the physical condition of most of these people in this video and to be fair a large portion of this country in general no such ‘backlash’ would ever happen…not before the second fry up of the day at least.

  161. Brian MacLeod says:

    No wonder Rangers went broke.
     
    Who’d want to be associated with that sort of knuckledragging intellectuals?

    Head to England?

    Poor chaps, they’d be stuck in a camp for illegal immigrants. 🙂

  162. Kenny Campbell says:

    No wonder Scotland would go broke on its own.
     
    Who’d want to be associated or run a country that has that sort of knuckledragging intellectuals in it ?
     
    Just change the size of the sample…

  163. Albalha says:

    No, I agree with that completely. But in the absence of balance, at least getting BOTH biased sides of the story is some sort of substitute.
     
    Can’t agree with that. Two inaccurates don’t make anything like a right. The idea that Press TV need to come along to elicit and air these views, you’re joking, surely.
     
    And other commenters seemed interested in the Welsh reference, as I’ve said the reporter is Welsh so he probably threw in a Welsh related question along the lines of ….’as someone from Wales’. Or along those profound journalistic lines.
     
    Though if people are happy for Press TV to come along and poke fun and goad people living in Scotland who will have a vote next year then fine. Just not for me.

  164. MochaChoca says:

    Are there enough of these guys to have one or two at the door into every polling station?

    We could crowdfund a megaphone each and the crayons and card for their placards (and a few cans of superstrength)

    Vomit stained better together t-shirts would be optional.

  165. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    Rev Campbell
    “I didn’t title the clip. But even so, it’s factually perfectly accurate – they ARE “Glasgow Rangers fans”.

    A wee bit of BT type argument there rev, “Thousands of questions remain unanswered” is a factual statement but when those thousands of question turn out to be ones that can’t be answered or nonsensical it diminishes the point somewhat.

    Maybe I am being pedantic maybe not, the inference to ME in this title is that it portrays all or typical rangers fans, I would have the same objection if it had been celtic fans or kilmarnock fans.

    As I stated I guide hundreds of people to this site for enlightenment and I still don’t think showing morons of any persuasion to enhance an independence argument is enlightening.

  166. Ananurhing says:

    Regardless of his sporting alliegances, the guy in this clip is real. His views are real and shared by a sizeable chunk of our society. His platitudes are cynically encouraged and nurtured by some Scottish politicos and corporates. Why should we not see, hear, and discuss what he represents. Thankfully, many people in Scotland don’t ever come across this level of ignorance, and perhaps need to be made aware of it’s existance.
     
    I think those trying to shut this down are displaying yet another facet of the Caledonian cringe.

  167. alexicon says:

    Rumour has it Eric is going to be a guest speaker at the BT meeting in Saltcoats.
     
    Well he does have the facts the bitter together mob like to hear.

  168. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    After thinking about it for a while, I think that the way to change things for the better isn’t to continue to avoid shining a light on the bad bits. So posting this video was always the right thing to do. The majority of Rangers fans, and those of other teams who have seen this will be that wee bit less tolerant next time this stuff or similar starts happening beside them.

    As regards the other half of the Old Firm, it puzzles me how anybody who joins in singing songs in praise of Irish freedom fighters at Parkhead could remotely consider voting NO next year.

  169. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    rev
    “I have no need to contact “the rev” to ask questions I can read and understand information very nicely”
    Frankly that doesn’t seem to be true.”

    So now you decide to go down the Terry Kelly route and start insulting people who don’t see things the same as you ?  
    fair enough, have a good day.
     

  170. Paul Wilson says:

    What an embarrassment to not just Rangers but Scotland did any of theses objects ever attend school? How did they go to through our education system and come out as ignorant as that? If ever there was a reason to vote yes they have just given it.He with the England top on how can anyone be that stupid? he probably can’t even read these comments about what he is slavering on about.

  171. Alex Taylor says:

    @Albalha
     
    Roshan Mohammed Salih from Press TV was born in Wales to Welsh, Sri Lankan parents.
     
    I didn’t check but was perfectly aware that this was possible, probably likely. I don’t understand the point you are making. He is clearly a son of at least one immigrant from whatever generation.
     
    I kind of regret making any comment on threads regarding old firm football, even the most benign comments can look as though you’re taking one side over the other. I have no team affiliation and never have done. I like both the old firm to be beaten by the diddy teams. I’ll root for both when they’re representing Scotland in Europe. When they play one another, I’ll lean towards the one playing catch up, but really just look forward to the kicking and shouting to start.
     
    Hope you’re well.

  172. Macart says:

    Whoa
     
    Makes me glad I’m a hardcore tiddlywinks fan.
     
    I’ll get ma coat.

  173. James says:

    At least they won’t be No voters…doubt they know how to write an X in a box!

  174. scottish_skier says:

    I think that the way to change things for the better isn’t to continue to avoid shining a light on the bad bits. 
     
    Yup. As pointed out by others, ‘we’re aw jock tamson’s bairns’. I don’t think anyone with sense would assume that the person in the video is representative of all Rangers fans. However, he is espousing what section of society believes. Thankfully, that section of society – which used to be larger in terms of the basic beliefs being put across (ignoring drunkenness) – is increasingly small. However, it still exists and recognition of a problem is the first step in addressing it.
     
    Scottish independence comes with warts and all.

  175. Thepnr says:

    I come to Wings because I can find great information that I won’t find on TV or in the newspapers. Particularly articles that expose the lies and hypocrisy of those who at all costs wish to prevent a vote for Independence.
     
    I then use that information to try to persuade others of the merits of a Yes vote and to answer their questions.
     
    The great majority of commenter’s here on WOS are already committed Yes supporters but we will all have our different opinions, it is the desire for an Independent Scotland that binds us together.
     
    I really don’t see much benefit in articles that highlight our differences (and there will be many) and show us in disharmony. You know the saying don’t talk about politics or religion? and lets face it all the “football” problems are really just about religion.
     
    I’d be happy just to talk politics.

  176. JLT says:

    Thepnr
     
    ‘I’d be happy just to talk politics.’
     
    I agree. The only time I will happily discuss religion, is when it comes to history. It is one of the reasons why I will be studying a degree in Scottish History come February. 
    I find the history from the time of the Reformation, right up to the act of Union fascinating. For almost 150 years, three religions fought each other for dominance and power in Scotland.
     
    And to that …this is my last entry on this post, as I await the next article to be published!

  177. gerry parker says:

    When I see things like this, it reminds me I’m half English.
    When I see some of the BTL comments in the Telegraph and Mail, It reminds me I’m only half English.
    g.p

  178. Tamson says:

    Perhaps it’s time to highlight the ‘Rangers Supporters for Scottish Independence’ Facebook page.
     
    It’s had over 500 likes.

  179. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So now you decide to go down the Terry Kelly route and start insulting people”

    It wasn’t an insult. You don’t seem to have understood the fairly straightforward and uncontroversial fact that saying “Here are some Rangers fans doing X” does NOT mean that “All Rangers fans do X”.

  180. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The fact is that our unionist political enemies feed this sort of shite to both sides of the Old Firm. 
    Its Home Rule is Rome rule in one house and the SNP is an Orange, masonic organisation next door.
    Rev Stu does us a service in providing evidence of the effect this has which many people are unaware of. I was very happy he published a couple of weeks ago what our enemies try to do at the same level with Celtic supporters 
    The two groups on either side of the Old Firm divide are probably the only two groups actually publicy expressing strong unionist sentiment.

  181. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “After thinking about it for a while, I think that the way to change things for the better isn’t to continue to avoid shining a light on the bad bits. So posting this video was always the right thing to do. The majority of Rangers fans, and those of other teams who have seen this will be that wee bit less tolerant next time this stuff or similar starts happening beside them.”

    That’s the hope. You hope that knowing such behaviour among their ranks could reach a wide audience might make decent Rangers fans a bit more inclined to challenge such arseholes. That, as far as I can gather, is basically what happened among the Tartan Army when it changed from a nasty pissed-up violent invasion force to the world’s favourite and most-welcomed travelling support sometime in the 1980s.

  182. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Can’t agree with that. Two inaccurates don’t make anything like a right.”

    I didn’t say it did. I said two opposing inaccurates was at least a bit more useful than one UNopposed inaccurate. It’s a very long way short of ideal, but it’s still better.

    “Though if people are happy for Press TV to come along and poke fun and goad people living in Scotland who will have a vote next year then fine.”

    I didn’t see anyone being goaded or made fun of. I saw people more than happy to make arseholes of themselves in front of an unconcealed camera with little to no provocation.

  183. Albalha says:

    @AlexTaylor
    The only point I’m making is he probably brought Wales into the conversation, we’ve no real idea what he’s asking people and it was the the same with the original package. I was just trying to give context to the situation as it is clearly absent in the video. I’m fine btw, hope you are too and got the e mail re your cards.
     
     
    @RevStu
     
    I’d rather do without the intervention of Press TV myself. And from what I’ve seen, over the years, from UK media old firm fans are often made out to have less than palatable views on a whole range of subjects. Or did we really need Press TV to point out that some football fans in an away support drunken situation just might say how much they hate Salmond, independence etc? Hardly news.

  184. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “old firm fans are often made out to have less than palatable views on a whole range of subjects”

    Sorry, I can’t get on board with this “made out to have” line. They DO have. There’s no mistaking what that young man believes. He hasn’t been edited out of context. That’s what he thinks. I watch Press TV through a filter of very considerable awareness of their agenda, but they haven’t misrepresented anyone in that clip.

  185. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    Rev
    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    It wasn’t an insult. You don’t seem to have understood the fairly straightforward and uncontroversial fact that saying 
    “Here are some Rangers fans doing X” does NOT mean that “All Rangers fans do X”.

    I understand perfectly well what I read, subtext and context included, Show me anywhere this article says “here are some rangers fans doing x” what it actually clearly says is “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence”  it clearly doesn’t say SOME Glasgow Rangers fans on independence. lets just agree we don’t agree on this one.

  186. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I understand perfectly well what I read, subtext and context included, Show me anywhere this article says “here are some rangers fans doing x” what it actually clearly says is “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence””

    Which is what it is. It OBVIOUSLY isn’t ALL Rangers fans, because there are more than six Rangers fans. If you think it’s making ANY assertion about ALL Rangers fans, then self-evidently you DON’T “understand perfectly well what I read”, because you haven’t understood that.

  187. Albalha says:

    @RevStu
    I didn’t mean the views don’t exist so my use of ‘made out to have’ wasn’t the best way to put it. My point is that there is nothing new in these comments that other media outlets haven’t pointed to over years. You seemed to be saying that you welcome this bias as a way of making up for other inaccurate reporting, from a different bias, in the independence debate.

    I’d be interested to read or view where anyone is saying, in the other media, that these views don’t exist. That for some reason we need Press TV to come along and point this out as if it were a revelation of some sort.

  188. Fergie 35 says:

    After watching that, its safe to assume that the union is safe in their hands, some very sharp cookies there!

  189. Luigi says:

    One for the anoraks:  A number of fans’ facebook groups have emerged recently. Based on the number of current “likes”, activity for or against Scottish independence can be compared:
    Numbers of fans currently for/against Scottish independence:
    Celtic 3936/49
    Rangers 512/1211
    Caley T 511/0
    Hibs 427/0
    Aberdeen 333/0
    Hearts 0/296
    Ross Co 291/0
    Killie 281/0
    Dundee Utd 233/0
    Partick T 182/0
    St Mirren 159/0
    Motherwell 123/0
    Current total: 6988 fans (82%) for, 1556 (18%) against independence.

    Not representative at all (only based on active facebook sites), but interesting nonetheless.
    A couple of observations: 30% of Rangers fans supporting independence.
    Hearts fans for independence and all St Johnstone fans keeping quiet?  Are there any Hearts fans for independence out there?

  190. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “One for the anoraks: A number of fans’ facebook groups have emerged recently. Based on the number of current “likes”, activity for or against Scottish independence can be compared:”

    Links for all of those would be awesome.

  191. juniorbhoy says:

    as one contributor said,there are many decent bluenoses out there and i know a few,who dont go along with the knuckledraggers who appeared in the clip.no doubt there will be many genuine fans cringing at that,and as for wearing an england top,that has been going on for years,very patriotic i’m sure.after independance,we surely cannot call our roads,the queens highway,and i am sure this will be bothering a lot of loyalists,will they still be allowed to walk and spout sectarian songs calling for the death of catholics,personally i think it’s time to call ahalt and thats what they are afraid of.move down south where they can still practice their bigoted views and worship their sovereign

  192. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Show me anywhere this article says “here are some rangers fans doing x” what it actually clearly says is “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence” it clearly doesn’t say SOME Glasgow Rangers fans on independence”

    As I’ve already said, the title of the clip is nothing to do with me. But in any case, here’s what it says four seconds in:

  193. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    Which is what it is. It OBVIOUSLY isn’t ALL Rangers fans, because there are more than six Rangers fans. If you think it’s making ANY assertion about ALL Rangers fans, then self-evidently you DON’T
    “understand perfectly well what I read”, because you haven’t understood that.

    This is like arguing with a unionist when they can’t see what is in front of their eyes, the video title “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence” is implying it represents the views of Glasgow Rangers fans, if it was titled Some Glasgow Rangers fans on independence then it would be implying that the views being expressed were those of the fans in the video.

    I know you understand, maybe you’re just not used to somebody on this site disagreeing with your pearls of wisdom.

  194. Walter dg says:

    I’m a rangers fan who supports Indy. My friends are the same. I don’t see the point in this article. 

  195. Taranaich says:

    “The intellect of the people in this “film” really shows how some people should not be allowed to have an opinion “

    I’d rather say this:

    “Everybody has opinions: I have them, you have them. And we are all told from the moment we open our eyes, that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Well, that’s horsepuckey, of course. We are not entitled to our opinions; we are entitled to our informed opinions. Without research, without background, without understanding, it’s nothing. It’s just bibble-babble. It’s like a fart in a wind tunnel, folks. ”
     – Harlan Ellison
     
    Exactly how informed the opinions in this clip are… well, that’s pretty plain to see, no?
     
    Regarding “Not all Rangers fans are like this”: we know. Everybody knows. Not all white people are racist against black people: you don’t need to point it out every single time white-on-black racism comes up. Not all men are sexist to women: you don’t need to point it out every time a story about harassment appears. Not all straight individuals are anti-homosexuality: you don’t need to remind us of that when a gay teen is driven to suicide over bullying. You shouldn’t have to assert that not all people of your group are like these individuals – I should bloody well hope so, otherwise there’d be riots in the streets.
     
    If, in fact, anyone was even suggesting that all Rangers fans were like this, then don’t you think things would be a lot worse than they are now? How many Rangers fans are there? Must be thousands. If even a slight majority of them were the bigoted idiots we saw in the video, then you wouldn’t be able to move in Glasgow without being pelted with Buckfast bottles for not looking Protestant/Unionist/Monarchist enough.
     
    The reason there are so few of them is, in fact, because so many Rangers fans are functioning human beings. Falling over yourself to show how not racist you are is, frankly, redundant, because we know that already by virtue of the fact Glasgow hasn’t devolved into the Thunderdome. It’s great that the majority of Rangers fans are, in fact, perfectly rational and thinking humans, but understand that when people are talking about the sort of numbskulls in the video, you don’t have to associate yourselves with them. Just because you and they are both Rangers fans doesn’t mean we’re criticizing you, any more than you should feel you should apologise for their behaviour.
     
    If your reaction to the video was to cringe, then the video was clearly not reflective of you, or the vast majority of Rangers fans, or even that subset of old-fashioned bigots: only the ones videoed. You have no need to feel ashamed on their behalf, any more than I (as a non-football fan who would, if anything, support Morton) am ashamed as a human being to share the same genetic material.
     
    It’s a bit like when some English individuals take offence at the idea of Scottish independence as a personal slight, as if we’re rejecting them, and even ascribing Anglophobia to Yes supporters – guys, this isn’t about you. You aren’t the people we’re voting against. You aren’t the opposition. Just because you’re English doesn’t mean you are responsible for Westminster’s actions, nor does it mean we’re judging you as a result.

  196. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s the ‘original’ Press TV package, as linked in an old thread (post-Calton Hill rally) containing an edited version of the footage heading this post.
     
    (The relevant section starts at 9.00 mins, and Celtic fans’ views are at 11.11.)
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1l3F6n8i-A

  197. Jim Watson says:

    David Smith says:
    21 November, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    What a shower of weapons-grade fucktrumpets
     
    What a stupendous insult! I will be trying to fit that into a conversation some time soon…
    As for other news, religious leader based in Rome craps in the woods…

  198. Andy-B says:

    Here’s a few facts about his beloved Queen, in 2014 she’ll receive, an inflation busting 22% rise, taking her up to £36.1 million quid from the privy purse.
     
    Phew! thank heavens she brings in £20 million quid, in tourism, which mainly affects London.
     
    The Queen, is unelected, unaccountable, she has the largest jewellery collection in the world, she has five castles ,and 20.000 old master paintings, she owns 1000’s of acres of land, known as (Crown Land) in commonwealth countries, and she owns millions of shares in bluechip companies, and she meets with powerful businessmen, every day yets shes above suspicion, regarding insider trading.
     
    It is against the law to advocate the abolition of the monarchy,punishable by a lengthy prison sentence, the Public Audits Commission and the National Audits Office are forbidden to examine the Queens financies, and in 1977, the Bank of England Nominees, was set up to hide the Queens personal wealth from the public.
     
    The Queens Civil list payments can only be examined every 10 years.
     
    Theres a lot more info but I won’t bore you with it.

  199. Thepnr says:

    Oh dear, you see this kind of drivel has been divisive for thousands of years!
     
    Apparently it still can be, lets keep our eye on the goal (pun intended).

  200. Gray says:

    As we’re on the subject of the monarchy …
     
    Does anyone know if the crown estates will be ring-fenced when allotting assets after an independence vote?
     
    I believe the estate revenues from the coast are now directed to the treasury so there should be no difficulty with the transfer of that, but will we get Holyrood palace and Balmoral back?

  201. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “the video title “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence” is implying it represents the views of Glasgow Rangers fans”

    Ooh, the timing of that comment couldn’t have been much more unfortunate.

  202. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Regarding “Not all Rangers fans are like this”: we know. Everybody knows…”

    A big old +1 to everything in that comment.

  203. CLIFF MCCABE says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    “the video title “Glasgow Rangers fans on independence” is implying it represents the views of Glasgow Rangers fans”
    Ooh, the timing of that comment couldn’t have been much more unfortunate.
    I Give in I will try to be a sycophant as well,
    but showing me a snap of the contents of the video changes neither the title nor the implication of your article, but hey ho I think your the best, lick lick lick.

  204. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “but showing me a snap of the contents of the video changes neither the title nor the implication of your article”

    Oh dear God, just accept that you were wrong instead of throwing your toys out of the pram. The title of MY ARTICLE doesn’t mention Rangers fans at all, and implies nothing. The title of the VIDEO CLIP, which I DIDN’T MAKE OR NAME, is perfectly accurate in its own right but in any event clarifies within the first four seconds that it’s talking about “a few” Rangers fans, not all of them. Your claim that it doesn’t is quite simply and plainly incorrect.

  205. Richard Taylor says:

    @Luigi, as Alex Salmond is a Hearts fan, we can assume that there is at least 1 for independence. Nice to see the large Arab contingent!

  206. gordoz says:

    Stu :
    I personally apologise for the crap posted on behalf of all normal thinking YES positive Rangers fans, ( As small a number as we may be) 
    God loves a nit picker ( Aye maybe ? )

  207. Derick fae Yell says:

    To move on a little from 22 men chasing a bag a wind aboot a park:

    What I, as a Sheltie wi nae horse in this game, see here is people at one end of the intelligence bell curve, shouting drunken pish.  I see an aulder man – looks 60 but might be 45 – wi nae teeth wi a drink in him being more rational than the aggressive bampot.  That aggression interests me.  Put me in that context and my main concern would be not triggering the obvious hair trigger and getting a doing for very little. 

    There’s been some research on intergenerational transmission of stress that suggest that mothers stressed in pregnancy (drink, domestic violence, violent environment, having to live in Saltcoats poor sods) have children that are pre-disposed to hair trigger responses.  It’s not just fitba.  Really, it’s not.

    So: early days of a Better Nation.  And for sure we can do better for these and such as these than the Bastard British State has ever done.  Hard to miss that particular penalty.  But this is a long term game.

    The British Unionist sees a video like this, or similar, and thinks: ‘See, these people are scum. Scots Scum.  I’m a Proud Scot, But we could never have a proper country with these sorts in it’

    The Scottish Nationalist sees a video like this, or similar, and thinks: ‘Why are these people like this? What creates such poverty of imagination, poverty of soul? And how can we change this?”

    That’s it
     
    PS What do you call a 30 year owld wife in Glascau?

    Granny.

  208. Alex Wright says:

    It’s not surprising that this example of what Karl Marx wonderfully described as the( lumpenproletariat) in action, should have happened at a football match environment. It’s the perfect meeting place for half-wits like that, to congregate alongside like minded and deluded numpties.Also spoiling the occasion for the majority. 

    I have unfortunately been brought up and currently live alongside head bangers like that, and to a certain extent can agree with some of the sentiments shown on this thread regards the lack of political will and direction that has produced people of such low intelligence and aspirations.

    However there is a caveat. 

    Although most unionist nutters are annoying but relatively harmless, there is, I sincerely believe, a dangerous minority. I have been in the charming company of members of the SDL on a number of occasions, and although most are of the “led by the nose variety,” some are not.

    There is no doubt in my mind that come our win on September there will be a violent backlash of some kind. How large or small, we can only guess. Hopefully it will be minor, and we can get on with rebuilding our country, repairing the damage systematically and deliberately imposed by  Westminster parties of all persuasions.

    Although I can understand that some people are upset at what they construe as a dig at Rangers, I’m glad this was shown, if only for the reason that it shows the nonsensical bile that is in the minds of a lot of the Unionist heads.

  209. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Derick fae Yell & Alex Wright –
     
    Hear, hear, both.
     
    It is good to get this stuff out. It’s like liberating old socks and Ys from under the bed – highly unpleasant at the time, but you know it’s for the vest, sorry, the best.
     
    After commenting last night, then seeing some of the conversation which followed, I felt like a sanctimonious numpty-hugger, but my motivation was selfish, pragmatic: I’m not pretending to care about these people. I’ll never become friends with any of them, I’m not interested in them, and I live in perpetual fear that either of my weans will fall in love with someone who’s connected, however tenuously, with anyone remotely similar to them. In other words, I live, and have to live in the same community as some of them. (BTW, Saltcoats is getting a hard time here – the footage was shot in Forfar, Rangers were playing away that day.)
     
    No-one wishes that these characters would vanish post-independence more than me. But they won’t go anywhere, for the simple reason that they can’t. Most of them have never left whatever street they grew up in, and never will. They are children trapped in adult bodies which already have one foot in the grave, regardless of what age they happen to be. That’s why they should be pitied more than feared.
     
    But should they be mocked? For me, that’s the crux. I simply asked what was the point of the post. Rev has made it pretty clear that it wasn’t a dig at all Rangers fans, and that’s fair enough. But he also made it clear that the post was an ‘And Finally…’, and we all know those are intended to be light-hearted.
     
    The pair who stole the show in the footage are, by any measure, losers in the Game of Life, but their behaviour does have a undeniable, albeit grim, entertainment value. They are tragic figures, and it’s a relief to be able to laugh at them – but how many would dare laugh in their faces?

  210. Derick fae Yell says:

    laugh in their faces, Ian? Not me.  Definitely not me.

    but I reserve the right to hold in utter contempt those more fortunate souls who have made a gravy train living out of the matter
    “children trapped in adult bodies which already have one foot in the grave”

    Bleak.  Skirts close to being patronizing. Searingly, absolutely, true.

    It will not do. It absolutely will not do. 

    Yes in 2014, win or lose. Yes in 2016, win or lose. Yes as long as it takes.

  211. Scotss says:

    Sorry stu but this was a dig at Rangers fans no matter how you dress it up. We are not as stupid as you think. I think there are better ways to promote independence than indulge in crass characterisation of what is likely to be tens of thousands of Scottish votes. for every Carolyn jones there is an idiot on our side. Remember that and think before you speak. 

  212. Ian Brotherhood says:

     @Derick fae Yell –
     
    ‘Yes as long as it takes.’
     
    Love it.
     
    That’s the truth – BT know they’re nothing more than a slogan. We’re the equivalent of the wee smile on the Buddha.

  213. Caledonalistic says:

    So this is what happens when expectant mothers abuse solvents during pregnancy…Thank God they’ll be going south.  

  214. lochside says:

    How many of those on here have been at Ibrox or in the company of the followers of the ‘teddy Bears’? Well, I have, and for years it has been one of the most unpleasant and often frightening experiences for any neutral or opposition fan to have to live through. These people on this video may well be lumpen proles with the collective IQ of a fence post, but they are not a small minority. Doubt it? well look at Manchester when they tried to dismantle it 4 years ago. There is  long list of English, Scottish and Irish towns and cities despoiled by these ugly bits of protoplasm over the decades.
    They are a minority among the Rangers support, but a significant number, and their brethren , the Orange Order manage to martial 50,000 fellow bigots every 12th of July. I fear this collective scum along with their fellow travellers at Hearts , Airdrie etc ever showing up at the first ‘YES’ march in Glasgow. Rangers have deliberately manipulated these elements in its support over the last few years…the Tricenntenial of the Union celebration; the disgusting spectacle of servicemen joining in and doing the ‘bouncy’ along with the Ibrox choir o the ‘Sash’; to name but two. The Green Brigade on the other side of Glasgow have tried to ferment a similar distancing from Scottishness by their paranoia over policing of the Football offences Bill, but they at least have kept it single issue and not made the same kind of dent on the Celtic support. But the point is Glasgow is  a crucible for insane Unionist ideas being stoked in order to divide and rule and we should face up to it and highlight the utter preposterousness of some Saltcoats ned trying to big himself up as a Brit to his Colonial masters, while wearing his ‘Engerland ‘top. Most English football fans I know would laugh in his face at his craven ("Tractor" - Ed)ous behaviour..like a submissive baboon bearing his sorry arse to the pack leader.

  215. Jimbo 13 says:

    I find this short video quite disheartening, (not that I support their views) in that, its use to assist the Independence campaign, could actually work in reverse, and assist the no campaign, giving the last three years as a Rangers supporter, as you can imagine have not been great , and for WoS to facilitate this anti Rangers video as a pro indi video does not sit well with Rangers fans, to single out Rangers fans in this most demeaning manner and then to allow comments that attribute all Rangers fans as marauding unionist hooligans is not on, this has been allowed to go to long

    You take a minute to look at the BBC, STV, and channel 4 and 90% of the media in Scotland were and still are attacking Rangers at every opportunity, but that’s ok isn’t it

    Now the BBC and 99%  of the media are attacking our right to vote for Scottish Independence through unionist propaganda and we are all up in arms.

    The point is every club has supporters on each side of the debate, by singling out only Followers of Glagsow Rangers you could start a tit for tat reaction (unless its only Rangers fans you want to upset) in which the unionist camp will feast on, and cause division
    So come on WoS forget the football politics lets focus on winning for Scotland
     
    Voting YES with confidence

  216. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You take a minute to look at the BBC, STV, and channel 4 and 90% of the media in Scotland were and still are attacking Rangers at every opportunity”

    Oh lordy.



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