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Wings Over Scotland


Men without honour

Posted on November 29, 2016 by

I wasn’t going to mention this on the site because it’s basically a personal matter, but as most readers don’t use Twitter or Facebook it probably ought to be briefly filed for the record, given the amount of media coverage there’s been.

mcternanhassan

It won’t take long.

Earlier this year I entered into wagers with a couple of very different Scottish political commentators on the outcome of the US election, because I quite often like to put my money where my mouth is and back my analysis with a couple of quid.

mcternanhassanbets

I’ve undertaken plenty of wagers on Twitter and elsewhere in the past, and as a matter of the most elementary etiquette and character I always pay up if I lose.

wingsgeorge

I’ve had a few, for example, with George Eaton from the New Statesman. I paid up on the one I lost – that Labour would be behind in the polls by the middle of 2014 – and like a decent gentleman he paid up on the one he lost, namely that Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister in 2015.

george50

(I even paid him out on one we didn’t actually make, on the indyref, because I was too dejected after the result to remember we hadn’t bet on it, because I was never sure how it was going to come out and I don’t gamble when I don’t even think I know.)

But McTernan and Hassan have no such dignity. The former has simply ignored all requests to settle, to the extent that on a point of principle I’ve filed a Small Claims Court case to recover the cash (gambling debts have been legally enforceable since the Gambling Act 2005), which has been widely reported as far afield as Australia.

mcternansusn

mcternantimes

mcternanexpress

mcternanscotsman

mcternanherald

mcternanfinancialreviewmed

Hassan’s behaviour has, if anything, been even worse. On the hook for just a measly £10 rather than the £76 owed by McTernan, he’s acknowledged the debt but refused to pay – instead proposing to donate some cash to a charity of HIS choice, and attempting to guilt both myself and McTernan into doing the same.

hassanbet1

(So rather than getting the money I’ve won fair and square and deciding what I want to do with it, Hassan is trying to leave me out of pocket by blackmailing me into donating to a charity HE supports, and thereby ensure that HE also gets the credit for both donations and gets to shoot for the moral high ground if I refuse. If he’d at the very least offered to donate to one of MY choice I wouldn’t have minded so much.)

hassanbet2

hassanbet3

(I’ve no idea if he’s actually given Women’s Aid the money or not.)

So that’s the story. I’m honestly surprised that neither has paid up. I thought that even among the lowly denizens of the British media there were some basic dignities that couldn’t be sunk below, but I was wrong. It’s just lucky I didn’t have any money on it.

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    1. 29 11 16 11:57

      Men without honour | speymouth

    2. 29 11 16 15:08

      Safe Bets | A Wilderness of Peace

    313 to “Men without honour”

    1. MajorBloodnok says:

      And judging by their wrinkled brows and unhealthy complexions McTernan and Hassan appear to be morphing into each other.

    2. manandboy says:

      Good for you Rev, and like nearly all Wingers, I bet, I am right behind you. Good luck in court.

    3. X_Sticks says:

      Good to have a bit of light relief in these times of gloom and doom. Been enjoying the little spat it’s been very amusing.

      It’s telling how petty Hassan is being over a tenner, do I detect a shade of green there?

      As for McTernan he’s just a nasty little tory turd, so no surprise there. The Small Claims case will just niggle the slimy wee shit which is enjoyable in itself. Merry Xmas John 🙂

    4. Brian Powell says:

      They should remember:

      “For the want of a nail the shoe was lost,
      For the want of a shoe the horse was lost,
      For the want of a horse the rider was lost,
      For the want of a rider the battle was lost,
      For the want of a battle the kingdom was lost,
      And all for the want of a horseshoe-nail.”

      ? Benjamin Franklin

    5. Sassenach says:

      More power to your legal elbow, sir!!

      Get it up ’em!

    6. The Man in the Jar says:

      Symptomatic of their attitudes to anything involving Scottish independence. We are literally beneath their contempt.

      Good on you Rev. Show them for what they are.

    7. Brian Powell says:

      And from what I remember of the twitter thread, J McTernan had made bets with others on H Clinton winning!

    8. Geoff Huijer says:

      I think you are right to put it on here as it shows the measure of the men.

      I learned in my early 20s playing pool never to bet money with anyone as I found that if I lost I would pay up & whenever I won the opponent never did. All I would get is the ‘double or quits’ nonsense or ‘best out of three’.

      Mr McTernan is a media darling wheeled out for his opinion regularly when he has so often been shown to be wrong. He is constantly, bewilderingly invited back time and again despite his inaccurate predictions and a reputation that would embarrass a sewer rat.This scenario only confirms (if that were needed) that he has no nonour whatsoever.

      Mr Hassan has also shown himself to be pathetic.

      These self-important ‘political commentators’ crave the ear of the media and public and yet don’t even have the decency to pay up when they agree to put their money where their mouth is.

    9. You can’t deal with liars. The sooner we are Independent from them the better. You should see the regular loyalist comments on the hootsmon on this. They are always all over the place retorting with insult that have nothing to do with with the topic in hand. Logic and reason is not their forte. Andy Burnham was on the Wright Stuff from Manchester, advocating Devolution for the North of Engerland, as they have more people and all the money is going to Scotland. The fact that he and others actually believe this is too pathetic for words.

    10. manandboy says:

      John McTernan & Gerry Hassan – like two grubby light switches in a public portaloo which haven’t been cleaned for a very long time.

    11. Bob Mack says:

      Oh Rev. You have damaged their egos. Hence the churlish behaviour.

      It must hurt these guys as “expert” pundits to lose to someone who they feel they are above, and yet the truth is you are far and away one of the best political commentators on these islands.

      They might actually learn something if they looked at your output.

      They made a bet because they thought they knew better than you.They lost.

      It is reminiscent of Labour’s refusal to work with the SNP against the Tories. We now see just how deep grained that reluctance actually is to give an inch.

      I feel their pain…….

    12. One_Scot says:

      BritNat Scum doesn’t even come close.

    13. Davy says:

      Can’t stop laughing at this, you have played a blinder Stu.

      Keep it going, embarrass them , make the pair of cheap pricks cough up.

    14. dakk says:

      Nice one Stuart.

      Gerry Nassan looks like he’s facing ‘the Chair’ in that mugshot.

      Pity welching on bets doesn’t attract the death penalty yet in their brave new Britain.

      I would hold out for that remedy post ECHR Brexit,I really would.

    15. Jamie says:

      Can you no take Hassan to the small claims court as well? Then he will have to pay your the tenner and the 25£ fee for being such a douche bag.

    16. Jamie says:

      Am glad you posted this though, I had not heard about this. Another low for the Unionists, I suppose it is further proof for anyone who doubted, you can never trust a unionist.

    17. gordoz says:

      Dont know if this link works – FM talk in Irish parliament.

      For anyone interested.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38139630

    18. Bob Mack says:

      “The greatest way to live with honour in this world, is to be what we pretend to be”–

      Socrates

    19. ScottishPsyche says:

      Very often how you behave with the small stuff tells people what you would be like with with the big stuff. McTernan is behaving with characteristic arrogance but Hassan is really tying himself in sanctimonious knots to avoid losing face.

      Just admit it when you are wrong and pay your debts.

    20. Luigi says:

      Big mouths, short arms and deep pockets.

      Some people just aren’t cut out for the limelight. They bask for a while but they get found out soon enough. Anyone who doesn’t honour a bet just cannot be trusted in saying anything (unless it is diametrically opposed to the truth (He He) in which case there is some value.) 🙂

      Well done, Rev for outing a couple of miserable Yoon Scrooges before Christmas.

    21. kailyard rules says:

      Nostraternan should ask Santa for an up to date crystal ball. The one he is using seems to be seriously flawed. Hassan is just passing the buck, or in this case the tenner.

    22. t42 says:

      2 dinosaurs digging their own graves side by side.
      thanks for organising the spectacle rev!

    23. CmonIndy says:

      I’m afraid your onto a loser there Rev.
      McTernan has a solid defence of being a known liar.

    24. Stoker says:

      So you’re taking him to Court huh!
      I can hear him already, going from welching to squelching.

      My maternal grandfather was a bit of a hard b@st@rd, former Military Police, Orangeman, Labour diehard and lifelong reader of The Sun (Ah think page 3 wiz tae blame) and he liked a flutter on anything – if it moved you could bet on it was his attitude.

      The one thing he hated more than Catholics, or the various other niceties he would refer to them as (sarcasm btw), was people who never payed up. Oh how i wonder what he would have made of Labourshite McT. That thought gives me a very warm glow inside.

    25. Luigi says:

      I see a couple of badly bruised egos. Two small-minded, pathetic little men not big enough to admit defeat and pay their dues. Especially to a nasty nat. No ground must be given. Stand your ground, yoons!

      This little issue won’t go away until something/ somebody gives. It will dent their gigantic egos and possibly their chosen careers. After all, those two “gurus” depend on the oxygen of “good” publicity and enough people believing that they have something worthwhile to say. To be outed as a cheapskate opportunist of low repute must be excruciatingly painful.

      Merry Christmas, Ya Filthy Animals. 🙂

    26. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hey Rev, is McTernan on the phone or is he just looking at your fierce-looking demeanour in an ever so coy way?

      O/T

      The National Survey closes tomorrow folks. If you haven’t yet completed it, here you go:

      http://www.survey2016.scot/take_the_survey

    27. Marcia says:

      ‘Lock him up’

    28. Macart says:

      @gordoz

      Another standing ovation for the FM. 🙂

    29. frogesque says:

      Not of a betting persuasion but seem to me that a bet was made between individuals, not random charitable groups, however worthy their cause may or may not be.

      Some wh Welch on bets manage to fall down some stairs an get their legs broken quite by accident. Public humiliation is far more effective, especially for someone living in America where court judgements can, in some cases, mean the first flight home.

      Moral: if don’t intend to pay, don’t bet.

      Now, in case McT or anyone else thinks I’m advocating gratuitous violence, I’ll hold their coats!

    30. “The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that’s the way to bet.”
      Damon Runyon.
      The origin of ‘welshing’ on a bet appears to be a slur on the Welsh nation, who were considered by their English neighbours in medieval times to be untrustworthy, liable to break oaths or agreements.
      The Welsh were considered an inferior lot, hence ‘welsh rarebit/rabbit’ to describe the poor’s cheese and toast ‘meal’.
      But we Sweaties are better than that.
      These two tired old hacks have ‘reneged’ on a bet, simples.
      Rev, you are correct in not letting them off ‘Scot-Free’.
      On the face of it, yet another racial slur, this time on the Caledonians, a pejorative jibe, implying that we Scots are getting something for nothing, like tuition fees, an NHS, or medical prescriptions.
      I took a wee dander onto the internet.

      “The modern Scandinavian equivalents are Swedish and Norwegian skatt, Danish skat, and Icelandic skattur, meaning ‘tax’. Scot is attested from Middle English with reference to various types of taxes, dues, and payments.”
      This may be the source of ‘scot’, ‘taxes, dues, and payments’.
      I’ll buy that: therefore in its original meaning, getting away with not paying your dues.
      Don’t let them off ‘scot-free’, Stu.
      Where I come from, it is the measure of a person that they pay their dues, promptly, on time, and with dignity and grace.
      Are these two hoary old hacks dignified and graceful?
      Answers on a post card.

    31. Free Scotland says:

      As Bill Shakespeare wrote:

      “Rightly to be great is not to stir without great argument, but greatly to find quarrel in a straw when honour’s at the stake.” (Hamlet, Act 4, Scene 4)

      Well done, Stu. And, think of all the free publicity via the newspaper articles already written.

    32. HeehawBaws says:

      Normal laws don’t apply with Cybernats. The nodding and saying “Quite right, they deserve it” clause comes into play.

    33. Training Day says:

      Mind out Rev, this probably means that Hassan is even now authoring a long, verbose, long, pseudo-intellectual, long treatise on the provenance of what we call a ‘bet’, moving towards (but no more than ‘moving towards’) an appreciation of how we cannot ultimately conclude anything about the ‘bet’, and in such circumstance it is indeed politic to do nothing.

    34. Robert Louis says:

      A bit surprised at Hassan. Not overly surprised at McTernan, but in both cases, I really don’t get it. What do they stand to gain by not paying?

      Pretty shoddy behaviour really. I mean come on, man up and pay your gambling debts guys.

    35. Tom MacGregor says:

      Saw this yesterday and clicked on the link I did not notice it was to a sun link. My laptop has been soaking in dettol overnight trying to get the rid of the smell. I think another 2 day’s and it will be ok

    36. Scott says:

      Sorry O/T

      TORY MSP Adam Tomkins is being paid to speak at conferences of a right-wing think tank called the Liberty Fund that has links to a body that was reportedly involved in drawing up US President-elect Donald Trump’s list of potential Supreme Court judges.

      Noticed this on the Herald but comments allowed wonder why.

    37. gordoz says:

      O/T

      The FM talk in Dublin and particularly the warm and informative affectionate words of Ireland’s politicians is something to see and hear. (Tear tae a glass eye)

      Really worth checking out, for an alternative view that recognizes both the idea and full benefits of Scottish Independence.

      Opinions expressed fly in the face of the BBC, WM and the rest of the establishment proto elite including our fine Scottish opposition parties and associated Proudscotbuts.

    38. gordoz says:

      Macart – hope your still watching.

      Warm affection to Scotland and the SNP government.

    39. gerry connelly says:

      I blame their parents, their teachers,and inherent Doh !!!

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Listening to the Irish Senate (BBC online).

      Isn’t it just FANTASTIC that other countries are now listening to Scotland, that Scotland is now being taken seriously.

      People – Scotland has now awoken. Scotland is now being listened to. Scotland, as a separate nation, is now being recognised.

      Scotland, as its own nation, is back.

    41. Artyhetty says:

      Good, this pair of rascals need bringing down a few pegs!

      Why did they bet on something then not pay up, because it would be solid proof that they were wrong, and you were right. Meaning, that their being elevated to a status of authority by the unionist media, is confirmation that their over bloated opinions are just that, opinions. Not knowledge, but opinions masking as expertise.

      It exposes the unionist, state supported bbc and right wing rags for what they are, opinion platforms, no more than that. Wings backs up articles with solid facts, and that does not sit well with
      the unionist agenda to undermine Scotland at any opportunity.

      Good luck!

    42. ScottishPsyche says:

      I am loving this Irish Senate. I can imagine the debates could show Holyrood and Westminster a thing or to. People who are articulate and confident in their identity. If only…

    43. galamcennalath says:

      … put my money where my mouth is …

      Looks like a couple of characters who are very keen to do the mouth bit, then unwilling to back it up with their own money!

      I’m particularly surprised at Hassan. His writing can be rather righteous.

    44. Macart says:

      @gordoz

      Moving comments all round. Liked the last one on the issue of inevitability. 🙂

    45. gordoz says:

      Irish Labour party leader.

      “First Minister I am inspired to be in your presence, your first words to this house included words on the incoming refugees. I find that truly humbling”

    46. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Robert Louis@12.13

      It’s not what they stand to gain, but what they stand to lose. Losing face yes, but losing integrity is really what it is about. They were wrong, that is symbolic of the fact that they may well be wrong on
      other matters. Big, important matters about which they are given a platform to express their opinions, on state run media.

    47. Shagpile says:

      Stu, if he offers to settle before it goes to court, wait until you have received the cash before you drop the claim. If you drop the claim before receiving the cash and he does not pay, you can not resurrect your claim. A Court Officer will advise you along the same lines… unless the rules have changed.

    48. Richardinho says:

      I think the reason they wont pay up is because they are still in denial. They didn’t just get a prediction wrong: their whole world view has been shown to be flawed.

      It’s interesting that of all the people before the election who said that Trump winning was impossible, I have yet to hear any of them attempt to explain why they got it so wrong.

    49. Dorothy Devine says:

      Well! I could believe anything about Mr McTernan but Mr Hassan – I am truly disappointed in him.

      Someone mentioned Adam Tomkins and I found him delivered by my postie not five minutes ago – a pamphlet declaring how wonderful he is and now confined to the recycling bin.

    50. Get the bailiffs round to McTernan`s home and take his `Tony Blair and Me` scrap book in lew of debt.

    51. ScottishPsyche says:

      This little episode puts a spotlight on the dire state of political punditry in Scotland. Hassan was Yes if I’m not mistaken but he is so apologetic and mithering on behalf of Independence you would be in doubt. McTernan is the typical arrogant unionist who has the establishment and old alliances to give him time and airspace even though his track record is risible.

      Both were so far off the mark yet they get invited to write and talk all the time. Same with Torrance. Hassan must thank his lucky stars that Yes lost so that he can continue to punt his pious meanderings around TV studios at 10.30 most nights.

    52. Davy says:

      “Scot Finlayson” (12:47)

      ROFLMAO

    53. Caledonian Lass says:

      Quite right for filing a Small Claims court case against these two welching windbags.

    54. Dr Jim says:

      I take a percentage if you want me to go round and break their thumbs before I go training in the meat locker

      (That’s humour! coz there’s always somebody who doesn’t get it)

    55. Macart says:

      @gordoz

      A moving closing speech by the senate.

      Waits for bullshit meeja spin in tomorrow’s dead sea scrolls. Just so they’re aware though, some folk were listening live.

    56. Robert Louis says:

      Great scenes at the Irish senate for OUR First Minister. As others above have pointed out, it flies in the face of all the negativity and utter rubbish expressed by the unionist cabal of Holyrood.

      Now, the only question is, what can the blatantly propagandist BBC dredge up from today, to make it seem like SNP Baaaad. They simply cannot have the people of Scotland seeing anything good about Scotland or our First Minister.

    57. Morag says:

      Interesting little point. If it were to be held that “why not?” from Gerry wasn’t enough to prove he had accepted the wager, his behaviour since has unequivocally accepted that it was a valid, agreed bet.

    58. Big Jock says:

      Honestly unbelievable. Hassan’s bet was there in black and white and it was only a tenner. What an absolute weasel. If someone did that to me in my work they would be getting a mouthful.

      A bet is a bet, and don’t make it if you have no intention of fulfilling the result. Hassan give the man his tenner. Stop changing the rules after the bet has been finalised. That sounds JK Rowlinesque blackmailing someone into charity donations.

    59. Farinjim says:

      I love how it was McTernan’s idea. 🙂
      But FFS. Poe faced, humourless behaviour. That’ll be Scottish Politics then.

    60. Clydebuilt says:

      O/t ( BBC’s Phil Goodlad pushing a FIFA PRO survey of world footballers, that finds Scotland’s footballers have received more threats of violence from supporters than any other country……. However, England and Old Firm players did not take part…….. Find this very hard to believe….

      Interestingly it’s turned up at a time when England’s game has a problem with abuse of young players….. ..

    61. One_Scot says:

      ‘changing the rules after’ something ‘has been finalised’.

      Why does that sound so familiar?

    62. Kelpie says:

      I read the BBC piece on the FM visit to the Irish senate and found this as the very last sentence in the article. WTF?

      Abortions are illegal in Northern Ireland except for cases where the woman’s health is at risk. The situation has led to women travelling to Great Britain seeking terminations.

    63. Snode1965 says:

      Sorry o/t, but had to convey how immensely proud I am of our First Minster today.
      I have just watched her speech and Q&A live from the Irish Senate. The genuine praise and warmth given to Nicola from all sides of the house was truly inspiration.
      I do believe at times we underestimate just how lucky we are in Scotland, to have a politician of her standing.

    64. Charles says:

      At first i thought this was just petty, childish point scoring…but then think of all the media attention and traffic!!!

    65. Caledonian Lass says:

      Trust me to get it wrong! It’s only McTernan you’re pursuing in the Small Claims court case.

      They’re still a pair of welchers and these two photos look like they’re straight out of Rogues’ Gallery.

    66. Proud Cybernat says:

      “They simply cannot have the people of Scotland seeing anything good about Scotland or our First Minister.”

      More than that. The BBC simply cannot have anyone in Scotland seeing Scotland being treated as an equal, being seen as a nation by other countries. That would never do. Being seen by other independent nations as their equal might give us uppity sweaties ideas way above our station. Heaven forbid, if we start acting and thinking like an independent country and others start treating us as such then it will become, in time, a mere formality to being truly independent. There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. If we start acting as though we are already independent and others treat us as such then nothing can stop us.

      And THAT is what the likes of the BBC and the rest of the colonial media in this country fear most. When we start to behave independent we start to BELIEVE in independence. Oh no, no, no–that will never do. Can’t have the uppities doing that. Can’t have them thinking different, believing different. Oh no. Never that.

      Too late. We’re already well down that road and won’t be looking back any time soon.

    67. Les Wilson says:

      After watching Nicola in Dublin, it was obvious she has the backing of the Irish people and it’s government.
      Standing ovations were testimony that we have a great politician running our country.
      Other party leaders of any kind across the UK, could not lace her boots.

      I did give myself a smile when I considered the faces and grimaces of the Westminster cabal at her obvious popularity.

    68. Swiss Perspective says:

      What the heck. Is it worth the trouble? If they don’t pay up, that’s bad form and reflects negatively on their character. However, taking them to court just doesn’t seem worth the trouble, even on the basis of principle.

    69. HandandShrimp says:

      The money is incidental the lulz are epic…as the yoof would say

      🙂

    70. seanair says:

      Gerry Hassan—Committee Member of Saltire Society! I might resign…..

    71. Big Jock says:

      Went to buy a Tartan tie at lunchtime for St Andrews day. Went to my usual kilt shop and I was a bit down, so the friendly Asian owner said: ” Could be worse you could be in the USA with Trump in charge”. I agreed but advised the nutters were now running the UK as well.

      Anyway to cut a long story short we both agreed that independence was inevitable. He thought Sturgeon had her work cut out as there were some real bigots in Scotland. I said yes especially with the anti foreigner anti EU crap we have to put up with.

      An interesting thought was that neither of us would be in Scotland without immigration. There are good people in Scotland and there are right wing ill informed racist bigots. I know which side I am proud to be part of.

    72. Joannie says:

      This may be of little or no interest to people here, but I think its worth noting for the record – the fact that our government clearly don’t care if they get up the nose of the British establishment by treating Nicola Sturgeon effectively as a foreign Prime Minister, tells us a lot about the state of Anglo-Irish relations behind the scenes. If you have another indy ref in the near future, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Irish government openly called for a yes vote.

    73. Arbroath1320 says:

      I have, until now, thought that Gerry Hassan was at least attempting to be an honourable man but now I see I was way wide of the mark there.

      As far as McTernan is concerned well what can I say … no SERIOUSLY what can I say? 😀

      McTernan is a slithery wee snake who slides around all over trying to make himself look knowledgeable and important despite the fact he is neither. He seems to have adopted the attitude that he is too important for any pleb (US) to dare challenge. I guess he forgot that oor Stu is NOT a pleb and he is therefore NOT that important after all. 😀

    74. Sue Varley says:

      Joannie, it’s of great interest, thanks very much.

      It’s good to get perspective from other countries. I always read links to stories in the Irish press, it’s impossible to trust the British press these days. Maybe t’was ever thus?

    75. ScottishPsyche says:

      @Joannie

      It is so welcome and heartwarming how open the Irish government have been. A real eye opener and takes courage in the face of the UK bullies. It is as if the facade that is UK status in the world is crumbling in front of our eyes.

      Although if anyone knows how to deal with a hostile UK government it is the Irish, isn’t it?

    76. Clydebuilt says:

      Joannie ….. The Irish Gov. Are rolling out the red carpet to Nicola, to mount pressure on England…… And We’re lapping if up as if helps our cause similarily

    77. Big Jock says:

      People like Gerry and McTernan are afraid of Wings and Stu. Why? Because he answers back , and points to the truth. Their half researched dissertations don’t bear any scrutiny.

      Float the lie and let it hang in the air like a bad smell. By the time the truth is told, the stench has already intoxicated the gullible.

    78. Keith Macfarlane says:

      Small claims court is too small a venue, this a perfect case for “Judge Rinder”

    79. Iain says:

      Stu, Can I ask, if you went along with the proposal to donate to a charity, what charity would YOU select? I have a motive for asking – you can reply offline by email if you prefer.

    80. yesindyref2 says:

      Pikers. A fuckin’ hate* pikers!

      *that “hate” is meant jokingly.

    81. Joannie says:

      @Clydebuilt – the Irish govt aren’t rolling out the red carpet for Nicola Sturgeon to mount pressure on the English, they’re doing it because that’s the way they would always have wanted to welcome her. However, as little a year ago they wouldn’t have for fear of upsetting the Westminster establishment and damaging Anglo-Irish relations. The fact that they no longer care is very telling. I’d say behind the scenes Brexit has already left anglo-Irish relations in tatters no matter how polite they are to each other in public. Any ambivalence the Irish government felt about Scottish independence back in 2014 is probably gone too, Scotland is looking like the only part of the UK that we can retain the same close trading and political relationship with.

    82. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Funny that, the First Mnister of Scotland becomes the first foreign Head of Government to address the Irish Senate and it does not rate a mention on the BBC National news.

      Fair play, for once, to BBC Shortbread, who made it the lead item on the lunch-time Scottish news, but, London’s blanking of the occasion surely demonstrates where we come in their thinking.

      Yet another reason to get out of this unfair and one-sided Union.

    83. Pete says:

      Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that the Irish Senate was of little significance and that it was likely to be abolished???

    84. Dr Jim says:

      If there’s one thing the Irish understand better than most it’s how duplicitous and unpleasant the English government and it’s media are so I suspect their generous and warm welcome to our FM was also a little bit of the sticking two fingers up at the Brits and that’s another thing the Irish do quite Feckin nicely

      Even though we know the English media throughout the UK is attempting to ignore this historic welcome for the FM by giving it the minimum air time they can and then heavily editing it we’ve seen the vitriolic hatred from the haters pour in and that’s always a sign the message is getting through

      When the fate of a hedgehog takes precedence (sad though that is) over a historic state visit by Scotlands FM to the Republic of Ireland the stench of English media protectionism for it’s state wafts far and wide like a Bisto advert

    85. Joannie says:

      The Irish Senate has roughly the same status as the House of Lords, and there’s no chance of it being abolished. The government tried to abolish it a few years ago but the public voted to keep it in a referendum.

    86. call me dave says:

      Well done Nicola Sturgeon in Ireland. 🙂

      Thanks to all who posted links.

      PS:
      Seem to have sorted out my dispute with the Herald about my subscription. Now I can read the Articles again and maybe archive too? We’ll see.

      Testing:

      Nicola Sturgeon:
      Scotland’s Brexit options blueprint to be published within weeks

      https://archive.is/Be3mo

      ———————————————————-
      PPS: Been in real pain for a while now with my legs & joints but have been given a ‘bar of soap’ to try by a friend. 😐 I know!

      Apparently I take it to bed and see how it goes. LOL

      I’ll let you all know… Jeez!

    87. Dr Jim says:

      @Pete

      Go to Ireland Pete and tell them what you think you’ll definitely be welcomed

    88. Fred says:

      Hope there are heavy costs anent the defaulter Pishtradamus?

    89. Proud Cybernat says:

      For me everyday is a school day, Joannie. Thanks for that wee lesson on the Irish Parliament/Senate.

    90. liz says:

      Never really rated GerryHassan.
      It’s seems he thinks his job is to write huge, long, boring articles about this and that but never reaches a conclusion.

      I have previously commented on some of his tweets and the only time he ever replied was when I had read something incorrectly.

      I realised at once & deleted the tweet, probably in seconds, but he had already replied telling me off for being wrong.

      Think he has a massive ego

    91. Joannie says:

      You’re welcome, cybernat. And its nice to see our two countries getting on so well. Although probably not so nice if you’re name is Teresa May, lol.

    92. Dan Huil says:

      McTernan calls his first and only witness for the defence: Alistair Carmichael.

    93. McDuff says:

      Good on you Rev. I have pursued three actions through the SCC and all were settled before the hearing date. This is about principle and it reflects on how these men lead their daily lives.

    94. findlay farquaharson says:

      luv it

    95. manandboy says:

      The decision by the BBC to virtually ignore Nicola’s visit to Ireland must have been taken in 10 Downing St with Theresa May’s full agreement.

    96. Macart says:

      @Joannie

      Many thanks for the insight on ROI politics. Its appreciated.

      I suspect there may be some element of sending May a message, but I have no doubt it pales beside the genuine and warm welcome received by the FM at both Trinity and the Senate.

      The ROI have done the FM a singular honour IMO and its a heartening sight in today’s political climate.

    97. Brian Powell says:

      It’s interesting how this has gone. Gerry Hassan could easily have paid up with a side of humour, or a smart look-at-the-dangers- of-US-politics polemic, but instead reneged on the contract.

      John McTernan never intended to pay, that’s how con artists work.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      @call me dave
      Seven Seas JointCare active with Chondroitin, £16.49 for 60 at Boots, buy 2 get 1 free. Bloody wonderful, I’m like a spring chicken whereas I had to hurple up from the car deck on a ferry one step at a time using both handrails when the arthritis got real bad (too much standing on the spot working). Takes maybe 3 months to get the full benefit.

      Should be available on prescription.

    99. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Kinda O/T but you can watch Nicola’s speech to the Irish Senate, and the comments after it, at:-

      https://oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000000.mp4

    100. Proud Cybernat says:

      “John McTernan never intended to pay…”

      But had the result gone McTernan’s way, it’s fairly certain that he would have fully demanded the Rev cough up. Such is the typical double standard of Yoon politicians and their lackies.

    101. call me dave says:

      The excellent article and the negative publicity about J.Prepostoramous is worth oodles more than the £76.

      @yesindyref2

      OK: Well I’ll need something to see in independence.

      Some good news for shortbread tv later tonight… Oh wait!
      Glenmuckloch opencast mine hydro energy scheme approved

      https://archive.is/Wtgql

    102. Joannie says:

      @Macart, you’re welcome. And the welcome given to Nicola Sturgeon is genuine, I just find it intriguing that they wouldn’t have done that as little as a year ago. The times they are a changing.

    103. Taranaich says:

      I’ve undertaken plenty of wagers on Twitter and elsewhere in the past, and as a matter of the most elementary etiquette and character I always pay up if I lose.

      *BRISTLES MOST RANCOUROUSLY AT MISSED OPPORTUNITY*

    104. Patrick Roden says:

      I have to ask myself these questions:

      How many media outlets have ran this story?
      What size are the articles on said story?
      How much would it have cost Wings to take out similar sized advertising space o said media outlets?

      Does McTernan ever, and I mean EVER…get anything he does in politics right?

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      @call me dave
      Been taking them 3 years now, I was at the stage I could barely walk, even with pain, mostly the left knee. Now even the neck and back are more supple, it’s great 🙂 It was a customer recommmended them to me.

    106. Big Jock says:

      The problem with Hassan and his look warm support for independence is not unique. Our very own McKenna and McWhirter are exactly the same.

      In order to achieve independence or anything in life. You quire two essential ingredients. Unity & consistency. A divided people are a defeated people. We have enough hard-line Yoons in Scotland. So we don’t need so called indi supporters scoring cheap points against our movement. Our movement includes Stu, Wings, Wingers, Sturgeon, The SNP, The Greens and the 45.

      How many times do the aforementioned flip and flop on their support for indi and the SNP. The SNP is not a normal political party. It’s a vehicle to carry a movement. It’s a vehicle that finds the road blocked at every turn but the unionist media and unionist government in Westminster. We are up against the state and these feckin eejits want to start a war with like minded people over a tenner for fucks sake!

      So do us a favour Gerry wind yur neck in pull your legs in and get on the feckin bus or just get off at the next stop. Scotland doesn’t need time wasters.

    107. sassenach says:

      O/T

      OMG, just looked at the ‘comments’ on the BBC website reporting Nicola’s speech to the Irish Senate – no wonder we want away from these UK-wide idiots who fail to understand even the basics of life up here, and swallow everything Westminster tells them about how lucky we are to be ruled by England!!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38139630

    108. manandboy says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38139630

      Reading through every comment on the BBC’s Scotland politics website, it is hard not to think they were all written by the same person. The tone and style is the same throughout. Yep, the BBC are Scotland’s No 1 Public Enemy.

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      @Joannie
      I don’t know what the UK’s up to, the Gov seems to be going out of its way to hack off most people. International relations zero – and not great at internal ones either 🙂

    110. stonefree says:

      I might be wrong here
      But I noticed he has a try at doubling the bet and paying it to charity,
      A good move as he would be able top offset it against tax and at two levels at that

    111. lumilumi says:

      Pete @ 2:21pm and Joannie @ 2:23pm

      I must confess my ignorance as to the Irish Seanad. Are the members elected by people or appointed (by the President or some other body?), for a fixed term or for life?

      None of that is relevant, however, to the symbolic gesture. That the First Minister of Scotland (presently basically the leader of a regional assembly in the UK) is invited to address a house of the Oireachtas – the highest organ of state in Ireland – and be given a welcome usually reserved for heads of state of other independent countries.

      The support (and admiration!) shown to Nicola Sturgeon and Scotland and Scotland’s independence across the political spectrum in the Seanad was heart-warming.

      My country would never invite Nicola to speak to our Parliament. Too scared of displeasing the UK and losing exports to the UK, plus our present government is (sadly) quite neolib, hurtling madly towards privatisation (they call it “freedom of choice”) of the railways, the island ferries, the health and social services… It’s a nighmare, and right-wing nutters and racism is on the rise. I’m feeling quite depressed about it all.

      That’s why it was especially great hearing Nicola’s inspiring, strong speech and the response to it in the Seanad. There’s hope yet. We don’t have to succumb to neoliberalism, exclusive jingoist nationalism, fascism. One of the members of the Seanad (I’m sorry I didn’t catch who it was) said Nicola is a shining light not only in Scotland or the UK or the British Islands (geographically, including Ireland), but also in Europe and, indeed, in the world.

      The Irish, or at least their representatives in the Seanad, seem to get the civic nationalism thing.

      The UK press – in thrall to the rich and the Establishment and their right-wing politics – deliberately confuse inclusive civic nationalism and ugly exclusive nationalism (fascism)… And promote the ugly fascism kind, and decry the civil, civic nationalism as something bad bad bad. Nazzzzis, nasssty (in a Gollum voice).

      Scottish civic, people’s peaceful and inclusive nationalism is “nasty” (=bad news) to the Establishment, challenging their privileges. That’s why it’s bad bad bad. Ho-hum.

      Sorry for the long post. I hope at least some read it through.

    112. Robert Kerr says:

      BDtT

      Nicolas address to the Seanad is here

      https://oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000001.mp4,

      Your link is the live feed.

      I already posted on the previous thread

    113. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Robert Kerr.

      It’s an archived video – I’ve just paused watching it at the end of Nicola’s speech to come back here to catch up with comments.

      I will now go back to watching the comments after the speech.

    114. geeo says:

      To think, these guys liked to spout about Scotland becoming an international outcast if it refused it’s ‘share of the debt’ post independence Yes vote….debt which does not even belong to Scotland, yet refuse to pay up debt which is THEIR clear responsibility..!

      Pair of sanctimonious twats.

    115. Joannie says:

      @lumilumi – what country are you from?

      Seanad members are elected but not by popular vote, by various bodies like universities, the Irish Farmers Association, trade unions etc. The Seanad is there to make sure there are experts in various fields checking legislation passed by the ordinary politicians.

    116. Robert Peffers says:

      @Swiss Perspective says: 29 November, 2016 at 1:30 pm:

      ” … taking them to court just doesn’t seem worth the trouble, even on the basis of principle.”

      Yeah!
      Well!

      It was attitudes very like that, along with personal greed of individuals, that got Scotland in thrall to England in 1706.

      Also, after making Claim Of Right, efforts then letting them lapse, that got Scotland into this vile United Kingdom in the first place.

      Not only are matters of principle worth fighting for but are worth following through to the bitter end – no matter what the outcome.

      The point is if you do not fight for your principles then you left unprincipled.

    117. MorvenM says:

      Call Me Dave

      Turmeric/ginger or turmeric/pepper capsules also very good. Powerful natural anti=inflammatory. Epsom salts baths good too for joint/muscle pain.

    118. Iain More says:

      I always thought Hassan was a chancer. Now he has confirmed it. I have suspicions that he was ever Yes voter. Came across as just another fence sitter who needed to extract the fence pole from his anal orifice. I think it might be permanently stuck there.

    119. Black Joan says:

      liz @2.29. Yes, the Hassan ego is all too apparent in his eponymous (naturally) website.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @HandandShrimp says: 29 November, 2016 at 1:37 pm:

      “The money is incidental the lulz are epic…as the yoof would say”

      Now! Now! Steady on with those Yoofinisms, HandandShrimp.
      ;-))

    121. Dr Jim says:

      If these two welchers pay up they’re admitting that the evil cybernat general Wingsy was right and they were wrong hence Wingsy knows more about politics than them, and they’re experts, the BBC says so (credibility) but in these delaying tactics they’re employing they’re drawing more attention to their incompetent forecasting of political events, so Stuart Campbell Wingsy Cybernat General in chief is seen as the real expert on all things political and more than the BBC for employing such a pair of Duds (ramifications of the result)

      You gotta laugh

    122. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joannie says: 29 November, 2016 at 1:45 pm:

      ” … by treating Nicola Sturgeon effectively as a foreign Prime Minister, tells us a lot about the state of Anglo-Irish relations behind the scenes.”

      Let’s just say, Joannie, There’s a lot of history behind that feeling of empathy for Scotland by parts of Ireland.

    123. Luigi says:

      What about Gerry?

      Yep, hopefully Dr Hassan can be sued also? He appears to be one of those many yoons pretending to sit on the fence. A very sneaky character. Perhaps not as blatant a clown as McTernan, but very sneaky nonetheless (which could make him more dangerous IMO.

      Yep, Mr Hassan is actually of less use to the indy movement than McTernan. So, if he can be sued as well, why not?

    124. Luigi says:

      The best way to neutralise those two fake “experts” is to sue them, drag them through the courts for all to see. Sue both of them, if you can. 🙂

    125. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, you seem to be able to upvote yourself on the BBC website. LOL

    126. Ron Maclean says:

      It will not have gone unnoticed that our First Minister has again demonstrated her readiness to lead an independent Scotland. Daring to upstage Prime Minister Mae will undoubtedly have consequences. I’m sure emissaries based at the British Embassy, Pacific Quay will be being briefed ready to retaliate and undermine the Scottish government. I hope the First Minister and the usual targets are ready for the coming onslaught.

    127. Tamson says:

      It’s actually embarrassing watching Gerry make himself look worse than McTernan. Ignoring a bet is one thing: trying to claim some sort of moral superiority by referring to charity is really low.

      For the sake of a tenner. Come on Ferry, that’s about the price of 2 pints at the Bingo.

    128. call me dave says:

      Sturgeon confirms Scottish talks on free abortions for Northern Irish women

      https://archive.is/3D8w6

      Labour MPs to vote against investigating Tony Blair over Iraq war

      https://archive.is/eA10J

    129. Luigi says:

      Big Jock says:

      29 November, 2016 at 3:20 pm

      The problem with Hassan and his look warm support for independence is not unique. Our very own McKenna and McWhirter are exactly the same.

      I am no longer willing to tolerate those fence-sitters. By this, I refer to public figures, “experts” and reporters, as opposed to genuinely undecided soft NOs (who normally keep their opinions to themselves). Those public, vocal fence-sitters have had long enough to make up their minds. They are actually more of a hinderance than a benefit to the Indy movement IMO. Sitting on the fence for such a long time in full view of the public creates an unhelpful message that things are not quite clear, still unsure. And what were we told by BT? “If you are not sure, just vote NO”. Thank you very much. Many public fence-sitters are just closet yoons anyway – why else would they hang on?

      Nah, no more time for those fence-sitters. They hinder us and they should be challenged fiercely at every opportunity. If they are not with us, they can piss off. 🙂

    130. Ken500 says:

      The publicity is worth it’s weight in gold.

      Screw them

      Thanks a Billion

    131. orri says:

      Fortunately NI voted for continued EU membership so the danger of Loyalists going off on one is lessened. However Sturgeon being as welcomed by the Irish is going to raise some hackles in some quarters which might provoke the kind of open abuse that could backfire on the Ruth Davidson Party.

      Whether or not BBC Scotland would deliberately concoct technical issues in order to address concerns about potential civil disorder from unionist bams we’ll never know.

    132. liz says:

      It’s not only Yoon press who are spitting chips cos the FM, how very dare she, was speaking in Ireland but also Angela Haggerty.

      She seems to be having a tantrum on twitter cos Nicola mentioned, the single market because no-one just no-one she speaks to is interested,

      Green eyed monsters all over the place. I was going to make a joke about PMT then thought better of it.

    133. Ken500 says:

      Unionist liars. Chilcot absolves liar Blair. Billions don’t. Who appointed him. Brown? The Westminster Establishment and the sycophant Press are destroying the world economy. Then blaming everyone else. Wasting £Trillions.

    134. bugsbunny says:

      Indyref2,

      Have you tried Sulphasarazine as an anti inflammatory along with Dihydrochodine as a pain killer? I take these along with Diclofenic and Gabapentin as a secondary back up anti inflammatory and pain killer. Along with Humalin injections and metformin tablets for diabetes asthma inhalers and Candastatin for high blood pressure and Atorafastatin for cholesterol I’m lucky to still be in one piece. And that cow Ruth Davidson wants to reintroduce prescription charges. Bitch.

    135. Kelpie says:

      call me dave @4:18 pm

      Thanks for that explanation, it seemed like a complete non sequitur at the end of the article.

      Although going back and looking again the paragraph two up explains that. They’ve either added since I read, or I may have just missed it first time around.

    136. bugsbunny says:

      Luigi and Big Jock,

      Another Bobbing John is Bill Leckie of the Sun. He’s praising Independence one minute and accusing its supporters of being sour faced lovers the next.

    137. Albert Herring says:

      @Call Me Dave

      Try cutting out wheat.

    138. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says: 29 November, 2016 at 2:11 pm:

      “Fair play, for once, to BBC Shortbread, who made it the lead item on the lunch-time Scottish news, but, London’s blanking of the occasion surely demonstrates where we come in their thinking.”

      Och! Socrates. It was not a deliberate thing – It just wasn’t the news where they were and was the news were we were.
      Simples!

    139. bugsbunny says:

      Luigi and Big Jock,

      Another Bobbing John is Bill Leckie of the Sun. He’s praising Independence one minute and accusing its supporters of being sour faced losers the next.

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hassan may be an academic but he’s up the wrong dreal, as well as lacking moral substance. As an ideological British National Socialist, this ‘pillar of the community’ supports the denial of inalienable human rights of Scots. His academic acumen has led him to an understanding that allows him to pose as a ‘socialist’ whilst supporting the retention of an inward-looking, unsustainable, “modernist” state built on the foundation of a “traditionalist” Anglican Establishment defined through bloodline. Not very bright, not particularly internationalist and in opposition to efforts towards achieving a sustainable future.

      How can someone who lacks self-awareness, moral character or common humanity, ever be trusted by the public?

      @GHassan
      Having fun in FAN-BOY’s shabby tent of diminished being?

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    141. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 29 November, 2016 at 2:22 pm:

      ” … When the fate of a hedgehog takes precedence (sad though that is) over a historic state visit by Scotland’s FM to the Republic of Ireland the stench of English media protectionism for it’s state wafts far and wide like a Bisto advert”

      No! No! Dr Jim.

      That is not the stench of English media protectionism you detect. – It is the nauseating guff of English Media rank terror and abject, shit scared, fear.

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      @GHassan
      Your ideology is no match for existential phenomenology and principles of contemporary social science ye dobber!

      Put thee master’s tools down

    143. Big Jock says:

      Aye Bugsbunny. Bill Leckie is just a thicko. He is a football bigot turned pundit! The others are intelligent so should know better!

    144. Cuilean says:

      I love that you are doing this to Mr McTernan. (a) It must annoy the hell out of the little shit and (b) all that free publicity for WoS.

      I hate hypocrites and mean spirited folks.

      I doubt very much Hassan has given anything to Women Aid. Has he produced a receipt? Oh wait, charities don’t do that.

      Tight arsed little shits – the pair of them.

      Hell mend them.

    145. sandycraig says:

      Well done Stu there is only going to be one winner here, it’s only the two welchers that will lose any face no matter how they try to cover it up or laugh it off. Gone too far now and Wings has got some great free publicity.

      On Nicola’s speech in Dublin is she not a master of making an audience completely at ease. Great speech, great q&a and there was a real warmth coming from the audience even though there were some tricky questions.

      Have not seen her speech to the Senate yet but have read some of the comments, particularly one from the Tank Commander, “none of the questions thrown up by Brexit will be answered by tearing up our own uk union.”

      Well Lt Ruthie, that’s where I think you are totally wrong. All the questions that Brexit causes can be answered in one sentence and that is, we can take our independence right now, and we will show you how to run a country for the benefit of all the people who have the courage to go forward to their own future, not just for the lords and ladies and financiers and people like Philip Green and his like in business who are only worried where their next 20 million is coming from.

      Phew that must have been the longest sentence I have ever written.

    146. Andrew McLean says:

      I wounder how the state propaganda broadcaster the BBC will report this?

      https://archive.is/IvfCg

    147. Ian says:

      Not just lost bet avoidance – ‘McTernan argued in his Daily Telegraph column that –

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/05/tax-avoidance-is-an-expression-of-basic-british-freedoms/

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joannie says: 29 November, 2016 at 2:32 pm:

      “You’re welcome, cybernat. And its nice to see our two countries getting on so well. Although probably not so nice if you’re name is Teresa May, lol.”

      In truth there are few Scots who have not at least one Irish Grandparent – I had two Irish Grannies but one of them was from the North and was descended from, “The Ascendancy”, so that doesn’t really count.

      Note: For those who do not know their Irish History:-

      The Protestant Ascendancy — known simply as, “The Ascendancy”, — was the political, economic and social domination of Ireland between the 17th century and the early 20th century by a minority of landowners, Protestant clergy and members of the professions, all members of the Church of Ireland or the Church of England.

      Sae noo ye ken.

    149. Andrew McLean says:

      I have printed the report from the Daily record website 15:10, 29 NOV 2016

      History maker Nicola Sturgeon is lauded as Irish leaders back her call for Scottish independence

      David Clegg reports from Dublin after seeing the First Minister become the first-ever serving head of government to speak to the Seanad.

      Nicola Sturgeon’s visit to the Irish Seanad turned into a love-in for Scottish independence today after senators spoke in favour of a UK split.

      Politicians of all major Irish parties defied convention and commented on a foreign state’s domestic issues by backing the First Minister’s goal of creating a Scottish nation state at a historic reception in Dublin.

      And they gave the SNP leader a rapturous reception as she became the first serving head of government to speak to the Seanad, the upper chamber of Ireland’s parliament.

      Sturgeon only briefly referred to independence in her speech, which largely focused on the challenges posed to Scotland and Ireland by Brexit.

      But the Scottish national question dominated subsequent questions to the First Minister from the senators.

      Former Irish deputy prime minister Michael McDowell set the tone by explicitly backing an independent Scotland and predicting the nation would “benefit” from self-government.

      And his point was repeated by a large number of other senators.
      Singer-turned-politician Frances Black told Sturgeon: “I do wish you all the best in fighting for independence for your country.”

      And even Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin – whose Irish Labour Party is a sister party to UK Labour – said it is now “inevitable” that “Scotland will take its place in the nations of the world”.

      Senator Mark Daly, from Fine Fail, simply asked Sturgeon what his party and Ireland could do to help her achieve independence.
      he Irish public has long been sympathetic towards Scottish independence but high profile politicians from the Republic largely avoided voicing their support during the 2014 referendum.

      But the result of the EU referendum in June – and the constitutional chaos it has caused in all parts of the British isles – appears to have made them more outspoken on the issue.
      Fine Fail leader Micheal Martin has already backed fast-tracked membership of the EU for an independent Scotland.

      And Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny risked the wrath of the UK Government by agreeing to speak up for Scotland with other EU leaders in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit result.

      Sturgeon appeared surprised by the strength of backing for independence in the Seanad.
      “This is a historic occasion which will live with me for the rest of my life,” she said.
      She added: “I could not agree more with the comment that independence for Ireland was transformational for the country.
      “And my nationalism, my belief in independence, is in exactly the same vein. Independence for Scotland is not an end in itself but a means to an end.”

      The First Minister’s visit to the Seanad was the culmination of a two-day trip to the Irish capital aimed at strengthening ties between Scotland and Ireland in the wake of the Brexit vote.
      Scotland voted to stay – by 62 per cent to 38 per cent – with every single council area backing the Remain camp.

      Sturgeon said how the UK responds to the referendum result will define Scotland for generations to come.
      “If the path that the UK takes turns out to be deeply damaging to Scotland’s interests – to our economic, social, cultural and interactional interests – then the people of Scotland must have the right to choose a different future,” she told senators.
      “We understand – acutely understand – none of what lies ahead is easy, but nothing about Brexit is going to be easy.”

    150. Dr Jim says:

      Fence sitters like Hassan McKenna and McWhirter who play both sides against the middle are both cowardly and despicable
      Pick a side and be prepared to debate and defend your point of view or accept the opposing points and change your mind, but these people among others do neither in the hope of coming out the other side not losing, soley to create a space for their ongoing nothingness
      It’s a kinda slimy dishonest unattractive trait really
      Very old Scottish Labour Party I suppose,… 1 MP

      And if it wasn’t for the list they’d have virtually no representation at any political level, and the councils are next to fall
      Where will they insert their fenceposts then

    151. Macart says:

      Sadly, the comments below the BBC article living down to the usual standard of baseless accusation and boneheaded insult.

      Seriously, not worth any reasonable and more importantly, thinking human beings time commenting in the middle of that hate fest.

      I’d just like to thank the establishment parties and their media once more for the narrative that unleashed this hateful idiocy on our society.

      Well done them.

    152. Skip_NC says:

      Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. At the risk of exposing myself as a Richard Cranium, I think it is worth pointing out that the Electoral College votes will not be cast until December 19th. In fact, some states haven’t finished counting. On election night, the results weren’t results at all. They were projections by the Associated Press. Recounts in three states probably won’t change the results, but you never know. In addition, Electors in about half of the states can vote for someone other than to whom they are pledged, without penalty. We already know of one faithless Elector, in Washington State and there maybe others this year.

      In short, this election is not formally decided. Indeed, the official declaration will not take place until early January. John McTernan may well be a welcher, but it is premature, in my view, to call him one. OTOH, Gerry Hassan appears to accept the almost-inevitable and he really should pay up.

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      Oh I don’t know, it’s fun anyway. Makes a change!

    154. manandboy says:

      Nicola in Ireland – a taste of normality.

      Self-respect and a modicum of intelligence should be sufficient to vote Yes to Scottish Independence. The knowledge that every other country in the world is independent should help. But in Scotland, this is not enough for 55% of the electorate who voted No.

      Does bribery and coercion by Westminster, and blanket state propaganda, explain Scotland’s humiliating retreat from Independence, before the watching eyes of the world? Did we really trade Scotland’s freedom for a David Mundell-led life of fearful subservience to the English ruling classes?

      Yes voters – eagles walking with chickens.

    155. Del says:

      This story has been reported in the Scotsman, and their comments section has gone nuclear. Attack on staunch brit politician by nasty bathlander. The bathlander doesn’t live in Scotland and can POAD. The bathlander lives off the back of gullible scotsnatz. Entirely predictable.

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says: 29 November, 2016 at 2:52 pm:

      “The decision by the BBC to virtually ignore Nicola’s visit to Ireland must have been taken in 10 Downing St with Theresa May’s full agreement.”

      Personally I believe the BBC needs no agreement from anyone. They are fully paid up, card carrying, members of the London Establishment, (Propaganda Branch).

      I also believe the fact they do not mention, or they play down, any particular event or item is a sure sign they are soiling their underwear in Broadcasting House because of that particular item or event.

      It really telegraphs to the SG. that the type of item or event that goes largely unreported or misreported is the type of thing that really rattles the unionist cages.

    157. Flower of Scotland says:

      Watched our FM at the Irish senate. The friendship and admiration, extended to Nicola Stirgeon and therefore to Scotland, was just brilliant!

      Why don’t these two “reprobate” just pay up!

    158. cearc says:

      Joannie,

      lumilumi is in Finland.

      BBC R4 seem to have a complete news blackout on Nicola in Ireland.

    159. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links for March 2012 now over on O/T.

    160. geeo says:

      “Men without honour”.

      How about Political Parties with no honour…or sense…or self awareness….?

      STV news website has a story running about how little the SNP spent on stopping brexit. (£90,000).

      Labour, Tories and lib dems all quoted as indignant over SNP “not lifting much of a finger to help avoid brexit”

      SNP very vocal on backing REMAIN.

      62% REMAIN result !!

      Post vote result….

      Labour, the Tories and the lib dems now flat REFUSE to fully support the SNP in their bid to protect Scotland’s interests, REMAINING in the Single market being the most obvious.

      Yet these people have the shameless temerity to attack the SNP for not doing enough to “avoid brexit”.

      I would laugh, but it is beyond parody, beyond farce even.

      ‘post truth politics’ they say ?

      The impotent triumverate of unionist fuckwittery could not recognise truth, far less spell it.

    161. ben madigan says:

      @ Kelpie who asked about abortions in Northern ireland. the 1967 Abortion Act was never enacted in the NI assembly, whic is still goberned by some mid-19th century law.Abortions are also illegal in the Republic of ireland

      Here’s some current and background info on the topic.
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/abortion-on-demand-now/

      PS FM Sturgeon has recently said she’ll explore whether NI women can have free abortions under the Scottish national health Service.

    162. Gary45% says:

      A couple slimy creepy crawlies raise their heads from under the cesspit.
      Yoons “No Honour” .

      Bugsbunny@4.32,
      Can’t promise this will work, but try cutting out milk if you have it in your diet. I was suffering from “trigger finger” in my finger joints, some vitamins helped, but when I stopped taking milk, I noticed a big difference.
      There is also a fantastic book called “Eat Right 4 Your Type”, author Peter J D’Adamo its a blood group based eating programme, basically tells you what you should be eating depending on your blood group.
      And also “The Great Cholesterol Con” by Dr Malcolm Kendrick, a fantastic read.

    163. call me dave says:

      SNP gain Angus Council seat after by-election win

      https://archive.is/gq30v

      First Scottish gold sold for ‘premium’ price

      https://archive.is/rs8f9

      PS:
      Thanks for all the health tips: I’m making a list 😛

    164. Paula Rose says:

      O/T this is Donna Babington’s store site – ideal gifts have a look.

      http://www.saltirecustomcreations.scot

    165. gerry parker says:

      Bernard Ponsonby reporting on Nicola’s speech called the Irish senate a “foreign government”?
      I thought the terms of Irish independence specifically stated that the Irish were not to be classed as foreign?

    166. frogesque says:

      I made my gold ring from gold I panned at Tyndrum. Hallmarked at the Edinburgh Assay Office.

      When talking about Scotland’s resources I always make a point of mentioning ‘our’ gold as well as all the other riches, natural and cultural, we have.

      As a matter of interest, part of the mace used in the Scottish Parliament was made from gold donated by Scottish panners. Not sure how they got that past the Crown Estates who like to think they own all of Scotland’s gold.

    167. Dan Huil says:

      @Skip_NC 5:20pm

      Interesting. Will there be any chads this time round?

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      @GHassan
      It’s Fabian British nationalist fan-boys such as yourself who have prevented the evolution of an organically defined social democracy in Scotland.

      Sure your not a bit neo-fascist yourself? Communist? A mongrel (imperialist running dog)?

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s just the three times I’ve commented on the BBC, but Jack (likely Jack C) is there as before doing a great job, as well as others. There’s tireless unsung heroes putting out the word, countering the snide comments, the lies. At least one derogatory comment about Sturgeon was deleted. If the Express did the same there’d be little left below the line. So hey, the BBC is actually better than the Express!

      “Tea-break” indeed. Ah well back to Andromeda for the 2nd time, more than halfway through downloading 5 series, should be finished by midnight tomorrow. Downloading that is!

    170. stewartb says:

      The FM’s speech to the Seanad today was remarkable: it is only a pity that most people across the UK will hear very little or nothing of it.

      The BBC 1 UK News at Six declines to mention the speech but does include a long piece on something called TizWaz!! When Farage stands next to Trump – UK-wide news coverage. FM make historic speech to a close ally’s parliament, no UK-wide significance here! However, I do suspect the UK ambassador to Ireland who was in attendance will be encouraging UK government ministers to take note!

      Over recent years, I have listened to a number of speeches made by Nicola Sturgeon, and by Alex Salmond when FM, to international audiences in Europe or the USA: without exception, these have been of a very high quality in my view and well received by their audiences. This small nation is very fortunate in having their services at this time.

      What I found especially notable and welcome in the response from Senators today was their full understanding of the positive, progressive nature of civic nationalism as promoted by the SNP and the wider independence movement in Scotland. This included the response from those from a democratic socialist position.

      What will it take for some of Scottish Labour’s more vocal activists to acknowledge, regardless of their opposition, that Scottish independence is not based on what they persist in claiming to be “narrow nationalism”.

      The FM’s speech today set out a clear internationalist commitment that all independence supporters that I know would strongly endorse.

    171. bugsbunny says:

      Gary45%,

      Thank you for your tips. Much appreciated. I don’t drink milk but I eat cheese and yougart. Which amounts to the same thing. Will look out those books you mentioned. Cheers.

    172. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Hassan was Yes”

      Really?

    173. HandandShrimp says:

      Sadly, the comments below the BBC article living down to the usual standard of baseless accusation and boneheaded insult.

      McCart

      Content yourself with the fact that their balls are turning square and festering at the corners with rage that the Irish have given so much time and respect to Nicola. All they can do is whine the usual drivel about the “day job”. By that what they really mean is that they would like see Holyrood as the parish council that Blair promised. Embassies in Europe and being treated as a Head of Government by another Parliament drives them to distraction. Way too much like Scotland being a real country with a real Government. Real danger of it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

      Their pain is evident in the shrillness of the whine. 🙂

    174. Sinky says:

      Arbroath East and Lunan by-election result, 28th November 2016 :

      SNP 35.0% (-8.8)
      Conservatives 27.0% (+12.2)
      Independent – Speed 17.2% (n/a)
      Independent – Smith 11.8% (n/a)
      Labour 6.7% (-6.0)
      Liberal Democrats 2.3% (-0.6)

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/

    175. Robert Graham says:

      What is really depressing is reading some of the comments from supposedly fellow Scots in these papers , The ones who happily accept all the benefits that they and their elderly relatives who are not short of a few quid , while pissing on everything the Scottish Government does on their behalf .
      I wish there was some way to give these arsewipes the full benifit of the Tory cuts let them bask in this glorious f/n scabby Union that they seem to think is so bloody marvelous .

    176. Slackshoe says:

      John McTernan has the permanent expression of a constipated goblin.

    177. Andy-B says:

      Hassan and McTernan, a couple of welchers, who’d have thought it eh?

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      RE: the BBC’s blackout of the Scottish First Minister’s warm reception. They are deliberately undermining Scotland’s self-perception, judgement and decision making abilities. The BBC damages Scotland’s public health. Grooming creeps violating Scotland’s inalienable right to unfettered self-identification..

      BEHAVIOUR IS SHAPED THROUGH EMOTION.

    179. call me dave says:

      Hark the Herald … a good read.

      Should Nicola Sturgeon stick or twist on a second referendum as Britain heads for Brexit?

      https://archive.is/m30UK

    180. Robert Peffers says:

      @lumilumi says: 29 November, 2016 at 3:30 pm:

      “Sorry for the long post. I hope at least some read it through.”

      No apology required, lumilumi. Some things require to say much. It is long posts that say little that Wingers tend to skip over.

      One wee point, though. Holyrood is properly described as a parliament now. There is, too the historic truth that it is indeed legally a parliament.

      At the time of the Union becoming active there were riots in the streets of Scottish towns and cities and the Scottish parliamentarians feared for their lives. It is said that the last signature on the Treaty was not signed in the parliament but in what was, (when I was doing my research about the Treaty), the women’s toilet in an eating place across the street, (Royal Mile). It had been a cellar at the time of the Treaty.

      Also, (regarding the legality), as the Scottish parliamentarians did not sit and legislate to end the parliament it was only adjourned while awaiting the Actual Treaty. At which time the riots begun and the parliament never met again. Then town criers proclaimed the parliament ended around the streets of Edinburgh. However, that was not a legally recognized way to end a parliament. Thus it was actually only legally prorogued.

      On the new Scottish parliaments opening, Winnie Ewing declared that she was reconvening the old parliament of Scotland and that has never been disputed.

      So, legally, Holyrood is the old Scottish parliament reconvened after a very long recess.

      In England the Westminster parliament sat and legally ended the Parliament of England. So the Westminster parliament of the Union is a new parliament.

    181. ignore last post,

      ta.

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      Oops! Missed the link to the video

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiottF-df3Y

    183. Dr Jim says:

      Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but BAE systems have no signed deal with the MOD for type 26s yet but the BBC keeps reporting this as a done deal instead of just and agreement in principle, and now the signs are starting to show again that future builds will be out to tender to every shipyard in the so called UK to fabricate modular builds

      It appears shipworkers are crossing their fingers and hoping they get well treated by the so called UK government again
      I don’t know anything about shipbuilding but I can recognise a bunch of UK liars preying on the fears of the desperate
      I’ve seen that before

    184. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      Just saw a Tweet from Leanne Wood, Plaid, which said that a UKIP member of the Welsh Assembly had asked the Government why they did not ask the Irish Gov for funds to build the M4 road because Ireland can access EU funds!!

      I am assuming the tweet is real.

      PS the M4 seems to be a road.

    185. Gary45% says:

      Dr Jim@7.04.
      You can see where this is going, I heard this on Shortbread on the wireless this morning, my gut feeling is Scotland is about to get fckued again, and who will get the blame? No guesses, but it normally ends in Baaad.
      Proven track record Scotland makes the best ships, but quality, commitment, dedication and value for money holds no sway with a useless UK government.
      When Indy2 comes along this will be a major bribe for the Yoons, and like before, we will still get shafted.
      I hope I am proved wrong.

    186. Jimbo says:

      If you didn’t agree to Gerry Hassan giving double the money to the charity of his choice (even if he’s already paid out to that charity) he still owes you a tenner. So he gets to pay twice for being a smartarse.

    187. galamcennalath says:

      RTE video report at the bottom the page on Nicola’s visit …

      http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1129/835143-scotland-ireland-sturgeon-brexit/

      … we are truly blessed to have such a leader at this critical time!

    188. galamcennalath says:

      Imagine going into a bookies to bet on a horse and saying, “I’ll give this tenner to a charity of my choice if I lose, will you accept my bet?”

      No, I can’t imagine it either.

    189. ronnie anderson says:

      Listening to that Gary Cook (gmb) if he didn’t know about Modular building even as Hammond was talking to the Shipyard workers ( he,s a Arse) but so’s the lot of the Unionist reps in Scotland . Fooled again & again & again.

    190. galamcennalath says:

      Notice on twitter JKR and her best buddy Spanner discussing Orwell”s views on nationalism ….

      Celtic nationalism is not the same thing as anglophobia. Its motive force is a belief in the past and future greatness of the Celtic peoples, and it has a strong tinge of racialism. The Celt is supposed to be spiritually superior to the Saxon — simpler, more creative, less vulgar, less snobbish, etc. — but the usual power hunger is there under the surface.

      On the subject of nationalism, Orwell was totally deluded. He thought British Nationalism was patriotism and a benign force for good, while everyone else’s nationalism was nasty and brutish.

      UK = Good, always
      Foreigners = Bad

      This aspect of Orwell always surprised me. He was still a BritNat to the core and as blind as all other BritNats to the reality of their entitlement and exceptionalism.

    191. ScottishPsyche says:

      Oh FFS not Rowling quoting Orwell again. She is a total fangirl. Orwell was not this neutral sage who foresaw all things with clarity that others lack.

      He probably more than anyone defined Nationalism to suit his own narrow agenda.

    192. Ken500 says:

      Angus Council by election

      John Ruddy 177 votes

      The hypocrisy of Tom Harris (Reform Scotland?) who was against Independence calling for the rail services to be devolved. Nationalised Network Rail is funded by the Scottish Gov (in Scotland) but controlled by Westminster. Network Rail is responsible for most of the train delays in Scotland

      The hypocrisy of a former Labour MP (fifty years of Labour) spouting about the Rail times between Aberdeen and Edinburgh compared to the times between London and Birmingham. Roughly the same journeys. Aberdeen to Edinburgh takes 2.30hours. London to Birmingham 1.30hours. The rail lines in Scotland are not electrified. Fifty years of useless Labour,

      Tom Harris has the cheek to lecture the Scottish Gov who are trying to make improvements. After the Labour Party did absolutely nothing for years but spent £Trillions blowimg other countries to bits. Along with tax evasion and banking fraud and wasting £Billion of Oil & Gas revenues. Total hypocrites. Tom Harris writes for the Barclay Brothers. Tax evading Non Doms.

      The Tory Unionists and now spending £Billions on HS2. Scotland will have to make loan repayments on the borrowed money. With little benefit. A total waste of money which will not save time on train journeys throughout Britain. To rival flight times. It will be more expensive and have a lower passenger base.

      The reported improvement in the Oil & Gas sector. Absolutely no mention of Osbourne taxing the sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. From 2010 Budget. Losing thousands of jobs.Losing Scotland £Billions At least £25Billion. More when imported Oil and Gas are included putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Scotland is always in debt because of Westminster Unionist failure.

      The Oil & Gas tax is 40% since Jan 2016. That is why the sector is recovering. It would never have been in decline if the tax had been reduced when the price first started falling. Osbourne’s ignorant incompetence or malicious spite mucked up the Scottish economy. Trying to muck up the Independence movement, in every way possible. To stop Scotland being a fair and prosperous country. Brexit is a total disaster. The Tories are totally, dangerously ignorant, arrogant and incompetent. ‘Psycho Bastards’. Their own description.

    193. maureen says:

      Didn’t realise there were so many articles on welcherwatch.
      It certainly grew legs, chase em down Stu!
      O/T
      http://basicincome.org/news/2016/11/scotland-fife-glasgow-investigate-basic-income-pilots/

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      @J.K. Rowling
      Just stop and think before pronouncing on things you are so clearly ignorant about. It won’t end well for you, frankly.

      What makes you competent to have such a privileged platform in the debate? What’s your appreciation of “post-modern critical social theory”? “Post-colonial literature and theory”. The principles of “sustainability”? “Ethics”? “Morality”?

      What’s the matter luv, Loki no yer pet any longer?

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    195. CameronB Brodie says:

      galamcennalath
      Re. Orwell. 100% in agreement. Orwell was a man of his time and a product of the English establishment. One Nation Britain was as natural to him as it is to UKIP’s own Eddie Hitler. He was a British National Socialist, though he had the Fabian sussed as being intrinsically authoritarian and totalitarian in nature. Conflicted?

    196. Ruby says:

      Legerwood says:
      29 November, 2016 at 7:13 pm
      O/T

      Just saw a Tweet from Leanne Wood, Plaid, which said that a UKIP member of the Welsh Assembly had asked the Government why they did not ask the Irish Gov for funds to build the M4 road because Ireland can access EU funds!!

      Ruby replies

      http://archive.is/ZFVZt

    197. Ken500 says:

      Dundee is doing well. There is a fund to improve the Harbour for decommissioned, The town outlay has improved at the water front with open squares and pedestrianisation. A new renovated railway station. The traffic going through can still be quite busy at certain times but what an improvement. An open outlook. Compared to the mess in Aberdeen city centre. A catastrophe.

      The rail staff do their best in trying conditions. A service every hour between the larger cities but journey times could be improved. Folk like taking the train compared to flights. It is an easier comfortabe journey than hanging around airports. Especially like Heathrow. If comparable journey times could be improved. The train from London to Glasgow is regular and comfortable. With some good deals. The bus is even cheaper, There are fares (student?) on the overnight bus for 99p. A bargain.

    198. Legerwood says:

      Ruby @ 8.55

      Thank you. You really could not make this up. Can it get any more ridiculous? Answer: Oh yes.

    199. Bob Mack says:

      Re George Orwell — went to Eton, just like Cameron and Co. Wonder what his values would have been ?

    200. ScottishPsyche says:

      Rowling show such little understanding and spouts such shite that her 2.2 degree really flatters her.

    201. George Orwell was asked by

      the Information Research Department (IRD), which was a MaCarthy style propaganda unit set up by the Labour government in 1948,

      to prepare a list of notable writers and other persons he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for `anti-communist propaganda activities`,

      he listed at least 35> names ,including,

      Hugh McDiarmid,

      Naomi Mitchison,

      John Macmurray,

      Michael Foot,

      http://tinyurl.com/hqgtq7s

    202. Pentland Firth says:

      I’m surprised that no one has yet mentioned BBC Scotland describing the Irish Foreign Minister, Charlie Flanagan, as “Irish Foreign Abuse” in this evening’s Reporting Scotland. This statement cannot be attributed to a typographical error. It’s an outrageous insult directed at a senior minister in a neighbouring jurisdiction, and lays bare the squalid, ugly British Nationalism at the very heart of a supposedly “impartial” public broadcaster.

    203. Bob Mack says:

      @Pentland Firth,

      Freudian slip of the editor perhaps ?

    204. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the Fabian Society being intrinsically authoritarian and totalitarian in nature. It was the Fabians who defined British socialism as an imperialistic project. The Fabian Society is the vector by which the British Establishment has promoted British nationalism and controlled popular opposition against the status quo.

      Small steps towards change? More like a last redoubt against the ‘barbarian’ forces demanding change.

      Here’s a fine example of such imperialistic, eugenicist Fabian entitlement. A key player in the early days of the Anglo/American pact.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Milner,_1st_Viscount_Milner

    205. Nicola Sturgeon’s address to the Irish Senate. Coverage starts at 15 minutes into Part 1 and continues in Part 2
      Do not underestimate the huge consequence this will have and try to distribute it to as many people as possible .

      Part 1

      oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000000.mp4

      Part2

      oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000001.mp4

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah! For those who found a strange PFI spreadsheet on their laptop I think I’ve found an explanation by accident:

      http://archive.is/qpPAw

      Guardian 2012: “PFI will ultimately cost £300bn”

      click the link: Guardian analysis of contracts that were sanctioned by the Treasury

      to get the list – my quick scan of, errr, those data seems to be similar, with a similar total. For some odd reason the link the Grun supplies to the Treasury gives “page not found”, now THAT’s a surprise.

    207. Big Phil says:

      Just watched oor Wee Nicola there, she honestly is a true Scot, not once did she hesitate or stumble,she is by far the best person we have to fight oor cause, she speaks from the heart, I was actually welling up with pride. she just oozes love for Scotland. so glad i let her cuddle me now. lol

    208. shug says:

      Stu I think you can whistle for your bet with these people

      I see the Clyde Shipyard workers are about to get stuffed again. The orders going from 20+ to 8 and now only bits of the 8

      I hope they take issue with their union that was so supportive of the Labour Party and their No campaign

      They could have been started on a new series of ships for the Scottish Government had there been a yes vote

    209. Albaman says:

      Stew,
      Why don’t you highlight the difference in the reporting between the B.B.C. Scotland coverage of the response to Nicola Sturgeon speech in the Irish parliament, and that of S.T.V.s, if ever it was graphically illustrated the indifference the B.B.C. has for Scotlands party of goverment, this is it.

    210. Arthur's Seat says:

      @Pentland Firth and Bob Mack

      I noticed this on BBC Reporting Scotland earlier as well, it is absolutely disgraceful.

      I’m not a wizard when it comes to posting and don’t do social media however I have managed to take a screenshot from iPlayer, upload it and archive the link.

      http://archive.is/PAbHF

      This is from 3 mins 52 secs into Reporting Scotland from this evening.

      This can’t be a mistake, someone at the BBC must have typed that deliberately. A senior exec should be providing an apology to the Irish Foreign Minister, their Government and the people of Ireland.

      Can BBC Scotland get any worse?

    211. K1 says:

      I’d like to echo the sentiments of the many comments regarding Nicola’s historic appearance at the Seanad, as the only active head of a government ever to have done so.

      It was like watching real human beings relating as they should to one another. The warmth, the outpouring of support and most of all the heartfelt kindness extended tae Nicola and Scotland was so moving.

      Very heartening to witness…we’re going to need our friends now…and they are coming to help with the big push. Spread these two vids far and wide.

      The first starts at about 13.29. This contains Nicola’s speech followed by comments from the various party leaders/members…the second vid follows on directly from the first vid with more comments and the q&a session that then followed:

      1) https://oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000000.mp4

      2) https://oireachtas.heanet.ie/mp4/seanad/latest/seanad_20161129T111959.000001.mp4

    212. K1 says:

      Och Dave I didn’t see yours afore posting mine…we’re ‘on the same page’ richt enough 😉

    213. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I have to agree with you @ manandboy says at 2:52 pm

      “The decision by the BBC to virtually ignore Nicola’s visit to Ireland must have been taken in 10 Downing St with Theresa May’s full agreement.”

      The ‘Establishment’ really don’t want the uninitiated to see the difference (night vs day) of NS in Eire vs May getting 5 minutes at the end of that recent EU meeting (which one escapes me at the moment) and basically being ignored.

      They can’t have the NS, the Scots Govt or SNP portrayed in a good light ever.

      It’s SNPBaaad or nothing.

      I note this positive visit by NS to Eire is being used to stoke the sectarianist fires aka ‘The Ulsterisation’ of Scottish Politics’ on social media and BTL comments in the usual Yoony Rags.

    214. Chic McGregor says:

      TBF to George Orwell.

      OK he started out, very anti Scottish nationalist as part of his general anti-nationalism and anti imperialism.

      With his upbringing during the rise of the worse kind of nationalism and his educational background, it is not difficult to see why that was.

      One illustration is the fact according to confidants that he did not write under his own name, ‘Blair’, because he thought it was too Scottish.

      But in later life, he was sufficiently embarrassed by earlier views in works like ‘Keep The Aspidistra Flying’, which had ugly nationalistic/imperialist Scots stereotypes, and he had probably met more than a few of those in his earlier days, to request his publisher not print more.

      He also changed his views on Gaelic and differentiated between Scottish nationalism and English nationalism.

      It might be a bit of a stretch to say he left this mortal coil as a believer in Scottish independence, but he did seem to be on that path.

    215. Orri says:

      I thought I’d heard a mention that the ships were going to be a modular construction on the end of a report on the BBC a few weeks back. The implication was some of the construction would take place elsewhere in the UK with final assembly and fitting being in Scotland. Obviously the reporter wasn’t taken out and shot for giving the game away as that’d make it harder to cover the slip.

    216. BJ says:

      Just listening to G. Campbell with the First Minister.

      Why does she give interviews to these people. If Campbell’s BBC bosses want to know how she got on why don’t they broadcast the whole visit and they can see for themselves.

      I wonder what would happen if she told the BBC to get lost. Their coverage is all negative anyway.

    217. Robert Peffers says:

      @Skip_NC says: 29 November, 2016 at 5:20 pm:

      ” … Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. At the risk of exposing myself as a Richard Cranium, I think it is worth pointing out that the Electoral College votes will not be cast until December 19th.”

      Hi, Skip NC, Nah! you seem like a level head to me and I, for one welcome your input as I was not aware there could yet be changes to the USA presidential result.

      Mind you I do find the USA electoral system a bit strange. Not surprising, really as I find the UK system quite a poor system and even the Scottish system is badly flawed.

    218. Robert Peffers says:

      @Del says: 29 November, 2016 at 5:32 pm:

      ” … Attack on staunch brit politician by nasty bathlander. The bathlander doesn’t live in Scotland and can POAD. The bathlander lives off the back of gullible scotsnatz. Entirely predictable.”

      Yes Del but those Hootsmon commenters were crazy before they started trying to understand political matters.

      Thing is if the Rev Stu had not set-up Wings we would have had to invent him. You know what the Chinese say about Scotland being the land of inventions?

    219. Macart says:

      RE: Ms Rowling and ‘Celtic Nationalism’

      Uh Huh!

      Ms Rowling is not a stupid person. A multi national success story with, it is rumoured, an island of lawyers and massive personal wealth. So… not stupid at all then.

      So, what conclusion could be reached when an intelligent an high profile person airs such views on social media? Knowing full well the he distress and pain it causes others? The answer would seem fairly self evident.

      Please, please, please do NOT give this opinion or its ‘author(s)’ the time of day. It doesn’t deserve a response and any that are aired will only be used against you.

      Best to turn your back and walk away. Its all the attention it merits.

    220. Stoker says:

      From WOS Twitter feed:

      A letter to Dippy Dug
      http://archive.is/PK9NV

      ((((( HELLO ))))) Is the manager in?

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @Slackshoe says: 29 November, 2016 at 6:52 pm:

      “John McTernan has the permanent expression of a constipated goblin.”

      Now then! I’ve been puzzled for a very long time attempting to figure out what it was the John McTernan reminded me of. Your description was very helpful and I remembered what it was. It was a illustration of The Hobbit from an ion-line revue from years ago.

    222. Sam says:

      My take on Gerry Hassan, is that he hates to come to the point. He’s always happiest when he never has to commit himself. Once met him and a pal at the start of the first Yes march in Edinburgh, I asked him a question, found fault in his answer, at which point his pal jumped in like a trained guard dog.

      The pair of them might have done well on The X Factor.

    223. Ruby says:

      I was in tears watching the video from the Irish Seanad!

      That was very moving.

      Anyone care to bet that the Scottish press will manufacture at least one SNP Baad story from Nicola Sturgeon’s visit to Ireland?

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Macart
      The fluff in my belly-button has more of an appreciation. Don’t worry mate, I think I know how to play the game. 🙂

    225. Ruby says:

      BJ says:
      29 November, 2016 at 10:48 pm
      Just listening to G. Campbell with the First Minister.

      Why does she give interviews to these people. If Campbell’s BBC bosses want to know how she got on why don’t they broadcast the whole visit and they can see for themselves.

      Ruby replies

      Were the BBC not there? Nicola Sturgeon did say there were a number of Scottish ‘journalists’ in the Seanad poised with their pens waiting to hear her announce the date of IndyRef2.

      The BBC don’t want to broadcast the whole visit because then they wouldn’t be able to spin the story into SNP Baad!

    226. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 29 November, 2016 at 7:13 pm:

      “Just saw a Tweet from Leanne Wood, Plaid, which said that a UKIP member of the Welsh Assembly had asked the Government why they did not ask the Irish Gov for funds to build the M4 road because Ireland can access EU funds!!”

      The trouble with trying to make sense of that is there is an M4 in England/Wales and another one in The Republic of Ireland.

      I cannot fathom what the Welsh Kipper was attempting to say. Why would the Welsh ask the Republic to fund a Welsh/English road?

      He must have been asking why the Republic did not ask the EU for funding for the Republic’s M4.

    227. Big Phil says:

      Ruby ,I was welling up as well ,inspirational speaking from Nicola. I think the Irish like her a wee bit, eh!

    228. call me dave says:

      Jackson Carlaw said: “This over-reaching fuelled by the messianic subservience of her party is leading Scotland up a blind alley.

      So that’s us telt! 🙁

      http://archive.is/0vUUs

    229. Robert Kerr says:

      Ruby.

      The Senators gave Nicola a standing ovation, as did all of one section of observers. The other section had four who remained seated.

      Was the UK Ambassador to the Irish Republic one of those? Who were these impolite people?

      I have the courtesy to stand for the “loyal toast” as a guest at Burn’s Nights although I sing no anthem nor raise a glass.

      I wonder what the UK man shall report back to his boss in London.

    230. Macart says:

      @Cameron B

      I know that well enough Cameron. 🙂

      I simply care more for the folks in the YES movement and the wider Scottish society than I do the profile of someone who owns a small island of lawyers.

    231. Big Phil says:

      Robert,im sure one of them was mr ponsonby. he was watching everything like a hawk.Nicola looked at them earlier and said “the scottish media”,I might be wrong.

    232. HandandShrimp says:

      Jackson Carlaw said: “This over-reaching

      Never a snowball’s chance in hell of the Tories reaching for anything. The limit of Jackson’s aspirations is a Morris Traveler, a tartan rug and a weekend in Scarborough.

      I would like to thank the Irish Seanad for trolling these Muppets to the max. 🙂

    233. Tam Jardine says:

      I would like to add my sense of pride at the First Minister’s work in Dublin. I watched the entire Seanad footage and would recommend everyone on here takes the time to watch it. The significance of this day will cast a long shadow- Scotland is developing foreign policy, is establishing embassies and our First Minister has become an inspiration for like-minded people across Europe.

      It is an insight into what happens when people are not viewing our country through the house of mirrors that is the media in Scotland. Glenn Campbell and Sally McNair are disgraceful. McNair looked like she was about to be sick discussing our First Minister’s successful visit- she was far more enthusiastic about the disturbing news re the Clyde and the question marks hanging over shipbuilding. Glen Campbell with some pish about everything being decided in London.

      Westminster must be watching the footage of the Seanad today in abject horror. Nicola Sturgeon has just conducted a state visit- and was referred to as head of state at points during the visit. The Irish Senators have grasped the progressive agenda set by the SNP and view the First Minister as she actually is: an inspiration and formidable leader.

      My joy at the reception in Dublin has been added to by the hysterical writhing of the hard core unionists whose lashing out at Ireland and demands for immediate repayment of Irish debt expresses perfectly how terrified they are. I actually felt embarrassed for them.

    234. Ruby says:

      Robert Kerr says:
      I wonder what the UK man shall report back to his boss in London.

      Ruby replies

      There might be a leaked document reported in the press tomorrow. Remember Frenchgate? Not sure if they could use the ‘lost in translation’ excuse but nothing would surprise me anymore!

      PS I felt sorry for the young woman who ran out of time and was unable to ask her question.

    235. Big Jock says:

      So is Murdo Frasers going to be reported to the standards committee for his disgusting anti Irish twitter comments. This is a slight against a fellow Eu nation. He cannot just spout his Orange bile unchecked while taking an Msps salary.

    236. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: “Rowling and ‘Celtic Nationalism’”

      Rowling is dishonest.

      She cherry picked out of along essay the only remark of Orwell on a certain kind of Celtic ethos. In fact, that entire essay ‘Notes on Nationalism’, is a caustic diatribe against English xenophobia.

      I have written and told her so.

      What will she resort to next?

      Will she tell us Hitler loved dogs but omit his part in World War II?

      The comment Orwell makes on Scottish-ism is brief.

      If you read it carefully it talks of ‘power’ but Orwell doesn’t suggest securing power is a bad thing. He says only Celtic sentiment about the power of the landscape is really a camouflaged overture to gaining political power.

      You can say exactly the same about Elgar and his Malvern Hills, his Pomp and Circumstance marches, a well defined English sentimentality, or a Yorkshire man saying the Yorkshire Dales beat all other topography.

      He’d be wrong, but that isn’t the point.

      That Rowling assumes no one has actually read Orwell’s essay is the guile of a simpleton.

    237. Big Jock says:

      So is Murdo Fraser going to be reported to the standards committee for his disgusting anti Irish twitter comments. This is a slight against a fellow Eu nation. He cannot just spout his Orange bile unchecked while taking an Msps salary.

    238. Skip_NC says:

      Dan Huil, I couldn’t say for sure, although I doubt it, as most states have moved away from that sort of machine (for obvious reasons). In fact, the Feds gave states and counties a lot of money to move to something more reliable. Here in Wake County NC, we use paper ballots counted by scanner and all counties are required to audit 10% of their precincts to provide some level of assurance on accuracy.

      Robert Peffers, it took me a while to get to grips with the various systems here in the States. Whatever system is used, the basic timeline is this:

      1. Early voting, either in person or by post. This may be several weeks before the election.

      2. Election day. Votes cast then are usually counted first, which favours Republicans. Some counties also tabulate the early ballots (which tend to favour Democrats) on that day.

      3. A few days after election day, the postal votes are tabulated, as long as they are postmarked by election day.

      4. A few days after that, it is the deadline for military votes to come in from overseas.

      5. In the second week after voting, counties hold their canvass. This is when the county declares votes cast in that county for the numerous races (I had about thirty races to vote in from President all the way down to Soil & Water Conservation Board of Supervisors). Before the canvass, parties can protest if they feel there have been irregularities at the polls. At this stage, the local races will be pretty much settled.

      6. About a week after the county canvass, the state boards will tally the votes and announce the results. That is supposed to be this week in NC, but there is a very close race for Governor and State Auditor, so they will have to rule on protests and, perhaps, order a statewide recount. At this point, most statewide races will be settled and most congressional races too (except in Louisiana, which has a rather unusual system).

      7. On December 19th, the Electors chosen in each state (which is technically what we do when we fill in the ballot for President) will attend at the State Capital and formally cast their ballots for President and Vice-President. At this point it is theoretically possible that all the Republican Electors could vote for Mike Pence as President and another safe pair of hands as VP. Probably not going to happen but, as I noted earlier, nothing is set in stone yet. About half of states allow Electors a free hand. In others, you can be fined if you don’t vote as instructed by the electorate. and in some, such as NC, you get fined and they remove you and appoint another Elector.

      Well, that’s a brief summary of how this crazy electoral system works. I hope it is of interest.

    239. HandandShrimp says:

      Big Jock

      Murdo Fraser is a buffoon and possibly one of the best gifts we have. He epitomises the worst of sectarian Unionism. You can show ordinary people with little interest in politics a Murdo tweet and see them recoil. Sometimes it is useful for people to see what they dislike rather than listen to long explanation of why they should consider liking something.

    240. Still Positive. says:

      Tam Jardine @ 11.37

      Totally agree. I have never been so proud to be Scottish than I was after seeing the FM’s speech.

      She speaks for me and many of us.

      I think Ireland backing an independent Scotland will sway many. After all, so many of us have Irish ancestry.

      My maternal great-grandfather was born in Ireland c1855, his wife was born in Glasgow to parents born in Ireland.

    241. Graf Midgehunter says:

      No matter what the “Express” (urgh, spit) writes, only 90 mill quid spent to get 62% for remain in Scotland sounds like good value compared to the massive step forward that the Brexit disaster has brought.

      Without it we would just be starting on a two year campaign to try and educate enough Scots that we could maybe go for another Ref. in 2020-2021.

      Now we’re friends with half the world, dynamic, progressive, WM losing out everywhere.

      We are on our way quicker than we expected. 🙂

    242. Macart says:

      @Grouse Beater

      As I say Grouse ‘calculated’ and most certainly also contrived.

      Someone looking for a ‘vile cybernat’ headline I suspect. Anything to spoil what should be a day remembered for other far more deserving reasons.

    243. Robert Peffers says:

      @Big Jock says: 29 November, 2016 at 11:48 pm:

      ” … This is a slight against a fellow Eu nation. He cannot just spout his Orange bile unchecked while taking an Msps salary.”

      Come on, Big Jock, you are not thinking straight. You are talking about the Loyal Orange Order and the Westminster Establishment and the head of that Establishment is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, “II”.

      You do not actually seriously expect that any action, other than a recommendation for a peerage, will result from that outrage do you?

      Perhaps even a Baronetcy.

      I would not be surprised if London residents in the areas around Buck House were kept awake all night by the loud sound of royal purring.

    244. McTernan actually looks like a scrotum that somebody has dressed up with a wig and glasses for a laugh

    245. Jamie Arriere says:

      McTernan and Hassan – a pair of defaulters. Is there a Scottish word for this?

      http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/failzie

      So that makes them a pair of FAILZIERS – now how is that pronounced.. BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

    246. Rock says:

      “I thought that even in the media there were some basic dignities that couldn’t be sunk below, but I was wrong.”

      There is no depth that members of the UK establishment will not sink to.

      Good to see that these two have been widely exposed.

    247. Still Positive. says:

      Happy St. Andrew’s Day everyone.

      We’re on our way.

    248. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah take it that McTernan & Hassan hivnae been tae ah Tossin school , they’d be walking with severe limps for welshin oan ah bet.

    249. Chic McGregor says:

      Sanct Andra guy us.

    250. GrahamB says:

      Can I wish everyone on Wings a happy and proud Saint Andrew’s Day!

      Yesterday was a great day for Scotland with the reception and support our FM got in Dublin. It felt as if we had gained acceptance for our cause from an erstwhile reluctant neighbour but as Joannie has posted they were probably too scared to upset the ‘Anglo-Irish’ concord until the Anglo side showed their true colours – looking after themselves first to the detriment of all their previous allies.

      I saw the tail end of the FM’s address to the Seanaid and all of the following discourse, including the two standing ovations, so I will remember it as a seminal moment in our voyage to Independence.

      Also noteworthy yesterday were the stushie over the RBS advert being too Scottish, will they have to change to RBUK? and the shipyard news which I interpret as the UK accepting that we are moving inexorably to Independence and they will have to develop ‘home’ shipyards so they don’t have to get their Navy ships built in a foreign country.

    251. call me dave says:

      Independence a boon for Scots lawyers, says top QC

      http://archive.is/uDIx9

      It’s an ill wind that blows nobody anygood!

      PS:

      Déjà Vu all over again!

      Voting gaffe stalls Glasgow City Council computer system privatisation plan

      http://archive.is/dOEzq

    252. Dr Jim says:

      The National conversation survey is almost complete and the Yoons who are yelping for it’s publication in their desperate hope of Scotland not being keen on Independence are going to wish they hadn’t opened their very own big mouths

      Wait for it

    253. alba says:

      This is going to get nasty. But our destiny is in our own hands. We need WGD,Wings and the rest. Departed Scotland in Sept 2014 and as much as it breaks my heart. Home sickness almost destroys me. I will never return until we are Scotland. A proper and angry proud Scot. Greeting ma eyes oot posting this. Mibee Ruth, Keiza and kelty 17 can explain to me and others why they bring down the country that made them.

    254. Ghillie says:

      Happy Happy Saint Andrew’s Day!!

    255. Sinead says:

      Gerry Hassan claims to support Women’s Aid and then has the audacity to use a misogynistic term in his tweet.

    256. Vegangod says:

      Could just be extremely tight and to part with a tenner would mess his head up. I’ve met a few like that. In the pub… Oops… I’ve forgotten my wallet…

    257. Ken500 says:

      Colouring on £Millions of Scottish taxpayers money. The Drewdog sycophants get draw in. Too big for their boots as they fill their boots.

      The Greens lost Scotland the last IndyRef with their unpopular policies. They could lose the next, They turn off more than they turn on.

      The hydro schemes have produced £Billions in energy, Any takeover costs are irrelevant by comparison. Keeping them going is the relevant factor. The schemes were not longer built in the 1960’s as the Oilfields came in stream. Built from the 1948 to the 1960’s.Pitlochry etc.

      The Tory Unionist and the tax evading Non Dom sycophant MSM are crowing, exaggerating the ‘popularity’ of liar May. Leaving out the Elephant in the room.SNP on 9%

      Tories on 44% polling. Labour 28%. UKIP on -12%. SNP 9%. If there was an UK election, May and the Tories would lose. There would be a hung UK Parliament. The SNP would gain.

      The Tory/Unionists will fill their boots illegally on taxpayers money in as short a space of time as possible . Creating harm and destruction in every way they can. Until they are kicked out and someone else will have to clean up their mess. Typical Tories. ‘Psycho bastards’.

      May, Hammond, Fallon, Farague, Johnston, Cameron and the rest should be put in jail. Along with Blair, Brown and Clegg. For the harm they have done to the world economy.

      Good for Nicola building bridges all over Europe and the world. Scottish invention shaped the modern world.

      The Westminster Unionists spend 7% on Defence. Not 2%. They must be including the borrowing.

      On average on £600Billion raised in taxes £40Billion is spent on the Defence budget. including £10Billion a year on Trident. An obsolete weapon which will never be used. Instead of spending £10Billion a year on investing in building ferries, frigates or liners. Useful to the economy. Stopping sanctioning the vulnerable and leaving people starving and dying. Upsetting everyone else. The rest of the UK in £Trilliins of debt. Scotland having to pay for loan repayments on the deficit for money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Teresa May is a incompetent. Ignorant liar.
      The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 Constituencies. The Tories in Westminster are not a legitimate Government, but a bunch of total fraudsters.

    258. Cactus says:

      X day.

    259. Cactus says:

      @the folk that do decorations and stuff the now ~

      If you’ve got any spare white fairy lights kicking about.. you could form a Saltire at your living-room window with them, on this fine day 🙂

      Hopefully social media users will share widely today, that the last chance and opportunity for the citizens of Scotland to have their say, for Scotland’s National Survey, is TODAY.. I’m aye raring tae see and hear what we’ve said.

      Enjoy YOUR national day people of.. citizens of Scotland, celebrate!

      30.11.2016.
      X.

    260. starlaw says:

      nice to see Saltires Flying over both towers of the Forth Road Bridge yesterday.
      Pity they could not stay there all round.

    261. Orri says:

      The Declaration of Arbroath may be thought of as a distant ancestor of the American Declaration of Independence.

      The slight link to this thread is that as a kid I didn’t get what the Funky Phantom’s catchphrase was about until I looked it up.

      “It’s the spirit of ’79, even” indeed.

    262. DerekM says:

      Excellent work by our FM in Ireland she could have went there bashing the UK but she did not she talked about progressive politics and how Scotland and Ireland can make a difference by working together.

      I see the usual suspects are screaming the usual no surrender pish and would like you to believe that the RoI is a complete basket case full of catholic terrorists,the reality could not be so different there is a smell in the air in the republic that smell is freedom you should go check it out its invigorating you will like it 🙂

      And anyway its in the Irish island`s national interest to have access through the big island into European markets Scotland just gave them a possible alternative route no wonder certain parties are doing their nut in brexit fantasy yoonland.

      Oh and best of luck getting your winnings from those two eejits Rev,i mean if you are going to accept bets in written format you cant after the outcome say you had your fingers crossed behind your back and did not mean it.

      Put your big boy trousers on you pair of zoomers and pay the man.

    263. shug says:

      Just listening to BBC interviewing the leader of the Irish government and the meeting with NS
      He was saying all sorts of complimentary things about the the SG approach and suddenly there was interference and the interview stopped
      Strange that
      BBC at its best

    264. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Pesky leprechauns invade BBC PQ yet again during live communication with someone Irish delivering positive report on NS’s trip…

    265. Macart says:

      So love this line from the Irish Examiner piece –

      ‘It was the first ever visit to the Seanad by a sitting foreign government leader, we were told.’

      Think about that line for a moment. 🙂

    266. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Macart Weil for the most part of Nicola visit to the Seanad she was sitting at that wee table (georgian) I think ( i’ve watched Arthur Negas many’s ah time LoL ). Anyhow on a more serious point we need to keep posting that video of her visit on every F/Book site on the Web & Hell rub it intae the British Broadcasters.

    267. cearc says:

      Will Downing Street be flying the Saltire today?

    268. Martin Wood says:

      See Gerry’s blocked you now…

      poor show

    269. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart , I loved that line too!

      The reception she got was astounding even to this fan!

      Thank you Ireland.

    270. Black Joan says:

      Top class analysis of contrasting STV and BBC treatment of FM’s visit to Ireland from Resigned Professor John Robertson, here:

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2016/11/30/showing-proper-respect-for-the-first-ministers-trip-to-dublin-how-stv-did-why-bbc-reporting-scotland-just-couldnt/

    271. Macart says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Arthur Negus? Jeez, that takes me back to Sunday nights and going for a song. 😀

      On the vid? Been busy posting that link and drawing attention to it since yesterday. 🙂

      Utterly beelin’ that its left to members of the public to draw attention to a historic occasion and major kudos to the Scottish electorate like this though. Its taken our ‘meeja’ two days to get their shit together enough to even mention it at all.

      This honour wasn’t just done to our FM, but the people of Scotland. That it took the public to spread the news of this honour is a crying shame and you’d hope a major riddy for the press.

    272. sassenach says:

      Ah well, it’s St Andrew’s day and the Times says independence support has dropped (in their own poll!!), the Scotsman tells us we’ll have £1.3 billion spending cuts, and the Heil says we will be seeing doctors by webcam (provided you have one, of course!).

      And I wonder what delights the Beeb has in store for us??

      Oh Happy Days – how the panic is showing!

    273. Breeks says:

      This is excellent between Scotland and Ireland, really excellent. More of the same.

      I said months ago that Scotland should be inviting to host EU summits and conferences to get Europe’s big hitters and their press entourage coming to Scotland and commanding news coverage which suits the pro Scottish narrative. This is hopefully just the beginning.

      Make the story of Scotland international and give our friends in Europe windows of opportunity to actively express the support and goodwill they feel towards Scotland. There is no downside.

      If the Irish can open their Seanad to Scotland’s First Minister, as a formal mark of respect to her status as the leader of Scotland, and express such fulsome support for Indy, we can hopefully expect similar from the other 26 member states.

      Have these events happening, and what news cannot get passed the miserable BBC will go under it, over it, around it and through it. Can’t you feel how much the BBC hates it?

      More of the same. A lot more. Plan similar visits, summits and receptions with strategic purpose and it will pay dividends.

    274. Stoker says:

      Just wait tae ye get a load of the quotes from IDS in this story.
      Oh my heart bleeds for the poor wee soul. Deja vu anyone?

      Merkel says ‘nein’ to May
      http://archive.is/QvXgU

    275. Cadogan Enright says:

      Irish News today;

      Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon received a sustained standing ovation from the Irish Seanad in Dublin following her address.

      Ms Sturgeon was the first serving head of government to address the Seanad, which was the culmination of a two day visit which included talks with political and business leaders aimed at strengthening ties between Soctland and Ireland in the wake of the June vote for Britain to pull out of the EU.

      – generally all round positivity to Nicola over here

      Also on the news here in N Ireland and on BBC radio 4 this morning – Ambulance services deteriorating in England, Wales and Northern Ireland due to bottlenecks at A and E with ambulances queuing to discharge patients and not available to answer emergency calls.

      Note the missing bit in the BBC health jigsaw?

    276. One_Scot says:

      Manipulated Yoons polls, paid for by Yoons, coming out on St Andrews Day saying that support for Independence has slump to its lowest level since time began.

      Nope never seen that coming, totally took me by surprise. Man, I really don’t know how they keep coming up with such original ideas. #LikeWeAreGonnaBelieveYourShitPolls #ReallyDoNeedToChangeTheRecordYawn.

    277. Ken500 says:

      Countries all over the world love and appreciate Scotland. A 40Million diaspora. They appreciate Scotland better than some nearer neighbours. Who would do anything to muck Scotland up.

      The Tories are despicable. Can they sink any lower? The lower they sink, the lower they fall. A catastrophe.

    278. Ghillie says:

      Listened to Nicola speak at the Seanad = )

      What a lovely start to Saint Andrew’s Day, thank you K1 @ 10.17pm! Have passed on the link to friends, hopefully it will spread : )

      How can anyone ever say anything mean about our FM?!

      The respect and warmth she received as our Head of State is in such stark contrast to what we have become accustomed from our supposed BT colleagues at Westminster.

      The support and understanding from the Senators of Ireland fills me with increased hope and conviction that we are well on our Road to Independence = ) Yes Still Positive, we are on our way!

      Happy St. Andrews Day folks!!

    279. Proud Cybernat says:

      In local Indian restaurant last night for a take-away. Opened the Sun and found this….

      http://imgur.com/a/2lBVN

      Tee hee….

    280. Croompenstein says:

      Happy St Andrews Day whaurs Nana

    281. One_Scot says:

      Man, they won’t even let us put the Saltire on buildings on St Andrews Day. They really are shitting on us.

      If only there was some way in which we could gain our self respect back once and for all, oh wait…

    282. Les Wilson says:

      Haw haw Kate really ramping up the BBC propaganda this morning,
      no real independence advocate on their panel. Funny how they always manage to find people anti SNP and Indy.
      Making big use of their new tactic of finding people who “used” to vote for Indy but do not now.

      Just before the program we had endure a slimy McLeish slipping around Indy but wants Scotland to contribute to the world, we will be great still in the UK. What a creep.

      All this was a set up to allow the BBC to slip into the anti Indy, anti SNP mode and promote that we are much better staying within this abusive “union”. How nice of them!.
      They ARE the enemy. If they know anything, they know propaganda.

    283. cearc says:

      Croomp,

      Nana said she would be taking a break, a few days ago.

    284. call me dave says:

      Aye the Glasgow to Dublin line is gey shoogly at shortbread radio…crackle…buzz…phutt!.

      I’m checking the back o my head for buttons to tune in properly!

      Was thinking yesterday … no Nana? 🙁

    285. Brian Powell says:

      Stoker

      As usual the Tories present the opposite of what is happening. It was a Brexit Minister, D Davies I think, who said they wouldn’t guarantee EU citizens rights and that they would be bargaining chips.

      Now Tories pursuing the same failed tactics that led to Brexit, they simply won’t tell the truth, aided and abetted by Labour, the telegraph, the express etc.

    286. T.roz says:

      Radio scotland, what a joke. Crazy how some people who want brexit tell us that the rest of Europe will always want to trade with us. But if scotland became independent then that would be the complete end of trade with the rest of the UK. Not even a bag of potatoes, or a pint of milk, nothing! Scotland wouldn’t be able to export or import anything. Pathetic.

      Please, please everybody, when scotland becomes independent we will continue to trade with the UK, we will have a good strong relationship with England, ierland, Wales. There is NO “cutting off” “walking away” “breaking up”

    287. Dr Jim says:

      Yoons love calling Kaye

      Then trying to use all sorts of uneducated ill informed ways of saying the same thing

      Next Topic: What does Scotland mean to you?

      Subservience pretty much covers that I think

    288. Ken500 says:

      Best wishes Nana. For all you do.

      Take care

    289. Ken500 says:

      Stop listening to the BBC programmes that are inappropriate. It is the only way they will end.

      Stop picking the scab. It will mend sooner.

    290. donnywho says:

      The poll in question has 200 out of the 1000 as coming from England/Wales/NI.

      Since that is an over-representation of the actual figure by 100% they “corrected” the Poll.

      The question i ask is… is it possible statistically, to randomly generate an over-representation of that magnitude? For to me, it smells of laziness at best, cherry picking input sources at worst.

    291. wull2 says:

      A thing I learned as a child from jigsaws, “don’t force a part in to place, the correct part will eventually fall into place” The part with a picture of Big Ben on it belongs to another jigsaw !

    292. Dr Jim says:

      That’s my lovely Christmas card in from the First Minister plus a wee envelope asking for donations so that we’re not outspent at the next referendum

      Now would she be asking that if she thought the polling numbers meant anything, it tells me what I thought, the National conversation survey numbers say we’re ready to go
      even in the face of such powerful opposition as Call Kaye with an E

      Remember, the FM said she never wanted to lose again, so to me that means she knows we’re going to win

    293. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ken500 –

      Well, Ken, I for one am acting on your advice.
      Lasted the first 25 mins of CallKaye, and that was it.

      Enough is enough.

      Used to feel some sense of responsibility, that it was only ‘fair’ to at least listen to anything indy-related on the offchance that a half-decent discussion might break out, or that the few brave pro-indy voices who do get through need/deserve silent support.

      The appearance of the ‘gremlins’ yet again (approx 8.05) slammed the tin lid on it for me.

    294. Sharny Dubs says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      29 November, 2016 at 12:28 pm

      O/T

      Listening to the Irish Senate (BBC online).

      Isn’t it just FANTASTIC that other countries are now listening to Scotland, that Scotland is now being taken seriously.

      People – Scotland has now awoken. Scotland is now being listened to. Scotland, as a separate nation, is now being recognised.

      Scotland, as its own nation, is back.

      Aye, Proud Cybernat, I float about the middle east a bit and these days instead of “Scotland, where’s that” I get “oh!! your Scottish” fare goes roon yer heart like a hairy worm. O/T so proud of Nicola in Ireland, I can hold my head up and say “now that is my first minister!”

    295. Robert Peffers says:

      @Orri says: 30 November, 2016 at 8:03 am:

      “The Declaration of Arbroath may be thought of as a distant ancestor of the American Declaration of Independence.”

      Whit!

      The Declaration of Arbroath was in 1320. In World history the American Declaration of Independence was in 1776. Indeed there are 456 years between the two events but the events in the newly formed United Kingdom of Great Britain were only 69 years earlier.

      The links between the two events are directly linked to each other. Remember that the North American colonies were heavily influenced by the people of Scotland. In what became the country of Canada the colonisation was largely carried out by the, “Bay Boys”, of the Hudson Bay Company and that company was still recruiting, “Bay Boys”, in Scotland until the 1990s, (mainly from the Highlands and Islands):-

      From Wiki –

      Hudson’s Bay Company recruiters quickly found that Orkney men (Orcadians) were particularly well-suited to life on the Canadian Frontier. Orcadians tended to keep to themselves, focus on their work and steer clear of personality conflicts. They adapted well to life in Canada and got on well with the people of the First Nations.

      Ships manned by hardy Orkney men began making their way to Hudson’s Bay. The first Company fort, completed in 1672, was named ‘Moose Factory’; now Moosonee, Ontario.

      In what became the USA the Scots were also well to the fore and the events leading to the Treaty of Union and the American Declaration of Independence were both coloured by the Kingdom of England, “Navigational Acts”, that caused chaos in Europe as they decreed that no one could trade with the English Kingdom’s colonies except by the use of the English Mercantile Marine. That is the Mercantile Marine were traders who bought and sold cargos.

      In effect they were setting up a monopoly because they just did not transport the cargos for other merchants but were also the merchants who traded in them and could thus demand the lowest price for what they bought and the highest price for what they sold, Very much English protectionism.

      The acts caused England to go to wars across Europe and led to those wars leaving England with gigantic National debt. This debt caused the start of the Bank of England by William Patterson and the same William Paterson, (a London Scot), it was who started the Darien Scheme that put pressure upon the Scottish Parliamentarians, (landowners).

      The acts were also what largely led to the Boston Tea Party. So if you look at the instigators of the American Declaration of Independence you will find the main influence involved were either Scots born or of Scots descent.

      There is no doubt that the Declaration of Arbroath is the main influence behind the American Declaration.

    296. orri says:

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ditypa75v5/TimesScotlandResults_161129_W.pdf

      According to those figures support for both the Conservatives and UKIP is on the rise. Also Sturgeon’s approval rating has fallen to +11 whilst Davidsons has risen to +25

    297. orri at 11.30

      It’s a YouGov poll. You know, the pollsters that have got most elections wrong recently.
      However it still shows SNP massively ahead in all areas. And the question asked was whether it was thought that Ruth Davidson was leading the Tory part well, not whether she had your support which is entirely different.

    298. No mention whatsoever of Nicola Sturgeon’s Visit to Dublin as the first serving head of state to address the Irish Senate on BBC online News and no mention on BBC Scotland online news either apart from a small passing reference on Brian Taylor’s bit. Absolutely no mention on BBC Ceefax or BBC Ceefax Scotland either.
      This quite frankly is an absolute disgrace.

    299. Robert Kerr says:

      Thanks for the Irish Examiner link.

      A snippet therein is of interest.

      “In the wings of the press gallery, Scottish reporters privately said it was “amazing”, watching these Irish politicians falling over themselves and pledging to do what they could for a sister-Celt nation.”

      Careful lads you could be on the dole soon!

    300. yesindyref2 says:

      So, Yougov.
      First note is that if a 2nd EU Ref was held, it would be 65% Remain, up 3% though within Margin of error. Leave 35%.

      Second is it asks the question “Would you support or oppose holding another Scottish independence referendum before the UK leaves the EU?” (35% to 54% + 11% don’t know). BUT doesn’t ask about support after negotiations are complete. This is a deliberately misleading question. Compare that to the Herald BMG Poll which asked both.

      Third, for its support for Indy it has 44% YES, 56% NO, but doesn’t ask the question “what about if it’s going to be a hard Brexit”. The pound rose after the district court case, and that was because the chances of a hard Brexit appeared to drop. I’d need to compare it against the Herald BMG poll (which was misreproted, including by BMG themselves).

      Two things about the data. First is the question on the national conversation survey. 13% approached, 82% not approached. Yet at that time I remember getting an email saying 1.7 million answered. Electorate 4.1 million. That doesn’t add up.

      Secondly, the SNP Holyrood constituency vote is low at 36%. Cobblers to that.

    301. Grouse Beater says:

      Sturgeon in Ireland

      The news fit to print but not to broadcast on BBC Television: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-bwJ

    302. Fred says:

      A well attended St Andrew’s concert at the Oran Mor last night in honour of Alastair Gray, compered by Alan Bissett, superb turns by international artists & Alistair himself, who painted the magnificent interior!

    303. yesindyref2 says:

      Forgot to eliminate DKs and WVs for the constituency 🙁

      That would be 48% SNP for the constituency. Fool, madman, maniac, inept incompetent, diddy, mirror looker.

    304. Peter Macbeastie says:

      No great shock that the unionist backers are basically without honour.

      More surprised to find I sort of made the Herald.

      Those flags are attached to a Kawasaki ER6F… mine.

      Which is for sale at the moment for a very reasonable price… if anyone’s interested!

    305. Jam says:

      Who’d have imagined McT was such a scurrilous prick?

      Eh, that would be everyone that’s ever heard of him.

    306. Davosa says:

      What a pair of ugly bastards those 2 are. Suggest they are most likely saving their pennies for a head / face transplant.



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