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The patron saint of North Britain

Posted on November 30, 2016 by

St Andrew is of course the patron saint of ALL of Scotland. He doesn’t belong to the SNP, or to nationalists, but to everyone in the country.


So it hardly even seems worth pointing this out, really.




Obviously there’s famously no political dispute over the monarchy.





Nobody in Scotland minded this in the slightest either.





And that last one’s Gibraltar, so at least there’s definitely no politics there. Phew!

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    1. 30 11 16 11:56

      The patron saint of North Britain | speymouth

    131 to “The patron saint of North Britain”

    1. Dorothy Devine says:

      How bloody dare they? Who blocked my country’s flag?
      I want names.

      Google is flying a saltire – thanks Google.

    2. Les Wilson says:

      The SNP should have seen it was done, why should we be unable to show our country’s flag anywhere,especially on public owned buildings. Disgraceful.

      Meanwhile in Yoonland…….

    3. Dorothy Devine says:

      I apologise in advance if this does not work or if I should be on the naughty step or if I pursued by a bearded chappie with hammers – HELP!

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      All those lovely Union Jacks. How wonderful! They just make me feel so proud and so so British.

      Is that what’s supposed to happen? Have I been Britished?

      I mean – how daft do they think we are? I am sure, though, that This blatant BritNat jingoism will work with some soft heads.

      Sad idiots.

    5. Sandy says:

      This decision not to display the Saltire was a disgrace and any ‘Scottish Government Official’ that made it should be censured for their political act. In what other country (or even region) would it even be considered acceptable for a nano-second that the national flag would not be displayed on the national day?

    6. Breastplate says:

      The same old “Do as I say, not as I do” hypocrisy.

    7. Arbroath1320 says:

      The Saltire is my country’s flag and no one and I do mean NO ONE will tell me where and when I can fly MY country’s flag.

      In the same vein of thought NO ONE has the right to tell anyone that they can NOT project my country’s flag onto public buildings.

      The Saltire is the flag of SCOTLAND. It is NOT political. The only people making the Saltire political are the b******s who are saying the Saltire is political.

      Those people “banning” the projection of the Saltire should be named and shamed. The people of Scotland deserve to know who is playing political football with OUR flag, real or projected!

    8. bookie from hell says:

      and they wonder why SNP is at 64%


      who exactly made this decision?

    9. Arbroath1320 says:

      Apologies about the long bold type there … it appears I forgot to end the bold command. … DOH! 😀

    10. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      “My” Google has since changed and has dropped the Saltire. It is still blue on white but thats it.

      Has someone complained I wonder?

    11. Facebook also seem to have got rid of their wee St Andrew’s celebration thingie they had last year, complete with a Saltire. Why?

      At least Google aren’t afraid to raise the flag.

    12. ClanDonald says:

      Are the kids off school today in the rest of Scotland? They used to be off on St Andrew’s day in Dumfries & Galloway but not any more. Must be the Unionist Coonsil, I think they’d rather Scotland didn’t exist at all, some of them even want D&G to be part of England officially.

    13. One_Scot says:

      Yoons trying to hijack St Andrews Day. What a surprise!

      When are we going to wake up? How long are we really going to put up with this crap?

      Scotland, you have one more chance, for the love of our children, don’t F#$% it up.

    14. Capella says:

      Banning the Saltire IS political however. Like banning tartan, bagpipes and Gaelic.

    15. The Man in the Jar says:

      Just to add to my above comment.

      If I mouseover “My” Google a dialog box appears with “St. Andrew’s Day 2016”

    16. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      @ The Man in the Jar

      Press the start button in the centre.

    17. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Conan the Librarian


      Wee embarrassed face thingie!

    18. gordoz says:

      Have to say I am so disappointed, my elected government puts up with this. Cant think of a sane excuse why SNP aren’t apoplectic over this ??

      Very weak display – pathetic really.

      Patriotic display Baaad –

      Can just hear McColm,Oor Murdo, Jackson, Murray & Wee Willie Rennie (mind him) all pishing themselves at this crap.

      Poor show of political correctness –

    19. manandboy says:

      Some relief from Bloomberg :-

      “European Union officials have been lining up to underscore the warning of the Dutch finance minister that Brexit will prove a “tough ride” for the British.

      Addressing three experts from every EU state except the U.K., European Commission negotiator Michel Barnier on Tuesday said there was probably only 15 months in which to strike a U.K. withdrawal deal, according to an official present. After that the European Parliament needs time to rubber-stamp the pact.

      Despite the ticking clock, continental officials held their line that they won’t engage with Prime Minister Theresa May’s government before it officially starts the exit process. “It’s no notification–no negotiation; and no speculation,” said European Commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas in a message echoed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

      Maltese Prime Minister Joseph Muscat summed things up by declaring he had “seldom witnessed a situation where there has been convergence as much as on Brexit.”

      The lack of flexibility will disappointment those banks and businesses pressuring May to secure an early transitional arrangement that preserves current trading terms between the U.K. and EU until a new relationship is agreed upon.

      Fitting with the theme of the day, European Council President Donald Tusk rejected calls from some U.K. lawmakers to act swiftly to protect EU citizens living in each others’ countries after Brexit. The parliamentarians’ complaint “is a very interesting argument, the only problem being that it has nothing to do with reality,” Tusk said in a letter.

      “Would you not agree that the only source of anxiety and uncertainty is rather the decision on Brexit?”

      Meanwhile, Jeroen Dijsselbloem of the Netherlands warned London risks losing its status as the euro-area’s financial capital if the U.K. refuses to fully apply EU regulations after Brexit. “We can’t allow the financial service center for Europe and the euro-zone to be outside Europe and to go its own way in terms of rules and regulations,” he said.

      The day ended with at least one olive branch being offered. Peter Altmaier, German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s chief of staff, said everybody is “prepared to limit the damage” of Brexit.”

      – Simon Kennedy

    20. liz says:

      If you press the play button on google, it shows variousStAndrewscenes

    21. Proud Cybernat says:

      Look into my eyes…

    22. scottieDog says:

      Well the daily mail seems to agree!

    23. manandboy says:



      Just in case anyone doesn’t know the score.

    24. caledonia says:

      Whoever decided this needs to be sacked NOW
      What a disgrace of a country we now live in

      One good thing to come out of it though is my cousin who
      Goes to st andrews day supper and does the speach but voted no is so pissed off about this when i linked him that we just might have another convert from no to yes

    25. Wullie says:

      The SG have to stop behaving as if we live in an occupied country. Start by not considering that we need anyone’s permission to do anything we we bloody well like. Equal partners and all that.

    26. Madcatwumman says:

      Name and shame the ‘official’ who MADE this political by blocking OUR flag being projected on OUR buildings ( as it has been a billion times before).

      Why does any single official have this power in the first place?

      Surely someone has the equipment or access to the equipment to go and project it on anyway………damn sure if I had…id be out tonight doing it…….how can they stop you!

      This is trying to undermine any overt displays of Scottishness……….change the group being kept down and go back through history to see where this has been done before!

      Any attempts to EVER have a union flag projected on our buildings should now be met with protests in the strongest terms.

      Ignore this BS edict and project the Saltire on everything tonight!

      An utter disgrace….

    27. galamcennalath says:

      Well, my Saltire is up on my flagpole!

      And there it will stay, apart from rare occasions when the wind is a too strong. 🙂

      There are good and good things about the USA. One I like is their keenness to put their national flag up at their homes. I am quite sure for them it is a sign of pride in their freedom (by their definition) and not dark exclusive nationalism.

      I fly my saltire to symbolise the country I want Scotland to be. When I see a butcher’s apron flying, that for me symbolises the past and what I don’t want Scotland to be.

    28. Scot in Korea says:

      Total nonsense. In Korea, there are flags on every lampost every day of the year on the island where I work. Its everywhere.

      Its a symbol of pride. Scotland appears to have lost theirs as someone in the SNP has lost their pride and made this ridiculous decision. Why???

      I used to think it was the Yoons that had Stockholm Syndrome but maybe some SNPites are now as well.

      This could only happen in Scotland. Incredible.

    29. Breeks says:

      Ha ha ha.

      Just watched about 30 seconds of Theresa May’s St Andrews Day speech. Nice to see she thinks highly of the Scottish Enlightenment, but kinda spooky because it’s another Scottish enlightenment which is going to end the Union.

    30. Craig P says:

      Set phasers to cringe.

    31. Chitterinlicht says:

      This ban just shows how lacking in confidence and feart the British Unionists are.

      All it does is stoke up more division in my opinion.

      I am not that into flag waving myself but it is a perfectly justifiable action for any country to do on its national day.

      It is very hard to come to any other conclusion that there is now a concentrated plan in place to push the Union and Britishness above all and at all costs.

      They would do better to celebrate the distinctive national expressions of each country within the union and promote the benefits of the union..oh wait duh…

    32. Doug Daniel says:

      Urgh, those make me feel sick.

    33. JLT says:

      In one sense, what they are also doing is counter-argumentative. By denying the Saltire, they aren’t exactly winning over the 50 odd percent who seek independence (or even those who would like the even longer shot of Federalism – like that is ever going to happen!)

      But in claiming the Saltire is political, then it makes a mockery of the Unionist argument that ‘they want their flag back (the Saltire) when the UK State now seemingly highlights the fact that the Saltire is now that – a nationalist flag that endorses independence.

      If the UK state won’t acknowledge the Saltire, then this is literally two fingers being stuck up even to Scottish Unionists.

      It’s a very strange way of trying to win a sister nation over to their brand of nationalism.

    34. Alt Clut says:

      The complacency and (small ‘c’) conservative managerialism of the SNP leadership is becoming a real concern to me. I spent many years in the 70’s and 80’s fighting the same thing in the Labour Party while living in England. We lost that and look where that bunch of self satisfied ‘great and good’ took us.

      We are not immune in Scotland. SNP members please get to your branch meetings and demand your rights. Conferences that are just rallies for the adulation of leaders and where members are bought off with pathetic selfies are just not good enough. Leaders don’t always know best – except what is best for themselves.

    35. Fran says:

      Saltire still on google folks

    36. Bob Mack says:

      @Alt Clut,

      Post independence I will decide which way I vote and for which Party.

      Just now though I stand by Nicola and the SNP regardless of any other issue. I will not join or sanction any infighting until the MAIN objective is achieved. All else is window dressing.

    37. Dan Huil says:

      Buy a couple of hundred Saltire stickers and do the job oorsels, eh Alt Clut? Stick them over the Butcher’s Apron in your local supermarkets.

    38. Macart says:

      The Saltire belongs to the people, not a party.

      Whatever fuckwit came up with this latest wheeze needs to get their jotters. How fucking dare they tell us who we are and what we can or cannot do in our own country.

      One nation? The UK?

      Austerity, brexit, the rise of the right and hate crime and now we’re expected to put up with having images of our very identity supressed? After this year I’ve never been more ashamed of being part of this… ‘union’.

    39. starlaw says:

      No man St Patricks day me keep
      his colours can’t be seen
      for there’s a cruel law against the wearing of the green.

      That worked out well for them .. didn’t it?

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      So, let’s take this to its ultimate conclusion. If Scotland’s national flag is now being regarded by yoons as “political” then when Scotland play England at Hampden (10th June, 2017), Scotland will not be allowed to fly its national (“political”) flag (FIFA have rules about making political statements) and the SFA could be fined if we do so.

      England should be okay though as their flag has not been deemed “political”.

    41. Bill McLean says:

      o/t Fran – you wouldn’t be the Fran of Fran and Sandy and you a Dundonian would you?

    42. Geoff Huijer says:

      Well that’s us telt then.


    43. Bill McLean says:

      o/t apologies Folkd. You are not the Fran from Dundee of Fran and Sandy, Scarborough are you?

    44. I joined the S.N.P. In 1992 and donated a considerable amount of money to them over that time but I quit the party after 20 years because like others on here I came to the conclusion that they were not bold enough I fully accept their sincerity about independence but find them sadly lacking when certain opportunities arise where they could and should act having said that I will still support them always but I just wish they wre more bold

    45. call me dave says:

      Are the lurkers no getting it yet?

      We know about this stuff, it’s being going on for ages but when you see it presented in stark reality as above it is very shocking…init! >:(

      Salt in the wounds and Ire in the heart. Saltire!

      Some cheerier news:

    46. osakisushi says:

      Is it perhaps possible an attempt is being made to keep Scotland under Westminsters radar while it deals with Brexit and we approach IR2.

      If so, perhaps this decision is indeed the correct one. After all, we want more than a flag.

    47. garles says:

      ClanDonald says:
      some of them even want D&G to be part of England officially.

      Over my dead body. I know we get panned by other WINGERS on here at times but there is a growing No of D&G residents coming into the light albeit not as many as I would like

    48. sarah says:

      I’m about to email everyone I can think of – MSPs, SNP – to tell them what I think. I should have done it when the news broke a couple of days ago. It is frighteningly outrageous not to have the saltire on our buildings on St Andrews day.

      And husband is on his way up the hill to the road to hang out our saltire.

    49. mseam says:

      It’s St Andrews Day. It should be called “lets try and bear down on independence day”. Nothing new here. I don’t know anyone who has changed their minds from independence to dependence.

    50. Glamaig says:

      can the same official please decree that having Union Jacks plastered all over products in supermarkets is too political and should be banned? Please?

    51. Clydebuilt says:

      Ireland’s colour is Green Scotland’s is Blue……..

      Rivers and fountains get dyed Green we’ve painted buildings Blue….

      Yeah not using the Saltire might offend some folk, there’s more important issues to focus on …..Move on

    52. bugsbunny says:

      Between the second Prussian Danish war of 1864 and the return to Denmark in 1920, the Danish population of occupied Southern Schleswig were not allowed to fly the Danesborg, the Danish National Flag, the white Nordic Cross on a wine red background. So instead they painted their doors Red and White. The Finns were not allowed under Imperialist Russia to form Political Associations. So they went to Sibelius concerts instead.

      History is repeating itself.

    53. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:
      “St Andrew is of course the patron saint of ALL of Scotland.”

      Aye, and if i’m not mistaken one or two other countries too.

      I’ve never really been a flag waver so to speak, i’m more into our thistle, but this blatant suppression of our identity rips my knitting big style.

      The Butchers Apron is an assault on everything that is decent. I don’t want to be associated with such a representative of all that is corrupt and evil.

      The very fact that the design has our flag planted firmly in the background says it all really. The only flag contained within its design belongs to the brutal master. Knowing that is reason enough to despise and disrespect it and all it stands for.

    54. Proud Cybernat says:

      The future today…

    55. Fireproofjim says:

      Go to Norway, any day, not just their National day, and you will see the Norwegian flag flying outside private homes and offices as well as all public buildings.
      Mind you they don’t have a large group of residents who would rather be ruled by Sweden, their former overlords.
      The jumped up jobsworth who took this decision to ban the Saltire on St Andrews Day should be sacked forthwith.

    56. mealer says:

      It’s the Cross of St Andrew.It should be flown on St Andrews day.

      HAPPY ST ANDREWS DAY!!!!!!!!

      not long now til we get our independence back.

    57. “Blocked” by whom? “Advised” by whom, exactly?

    58. Baron Haggis D'Nomms says:

      Am I right in thinking this will apply to St George as well…?

    59. Grouse Beater says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’s visit to the Irish Republic

      All the news fit to print, but not to broadcast on BBC Television:

    60. bugsbunny says:


      Results of the Norwegian Independence Referendum 13th August 1905.

      Yes 368, 208 votes 99.95%
      No 184 votes 0.05%

      Valid Votes 368 392 votes 99.05%

      Invalid or blank votes 3519 votes 0.95%

      Total votes 371 911 votes 100%

      Registered Voters/Turnout 435 376 85.42%.

      Notice that the turnout was the same as our Referendum 85%. Then notice the Yes vote 99.95%.

      Oh to be Norwegian.

    61. Capella says:

      Driving through Scandinavia, you see national flags everywhere. Danish, Norwegian, Swedish – public buildings, monuments, but also many private houses, have their own flagpole with the flag fluttering away without cringe.

      Only in Scotland is it an act of defiance to fly our own flag. The Unionists sure know how to inspire people to get out the flags!

      @ Breeks – I checked out the BBC website to see what Theresa May had to say about St Andrews Day. But could see no reference to it at all. If you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a link to a “Who Was St Andrew” potted history for children.

      Of course, almost nothing about Nicola Sturgeon’s St Andrews Day address exists in the media. The Scottish Sun mentions it but supplies no link.
      It is on the Scottish Government website though:

    62. Graeme McCormick says:

      It’s time the Scottish Government appointed a Minister for Independence charged with accentuating the differences in a positive way to encourage all Scots to live as if we are already independent and show how we can influence and even change matters which are reserved to Westminster.

      We could start by insisting that all our credit transactions and contents and building insurances are governed by Scots Law. As Scotland is a lower risk for mortgage lenders the Scottish government should be demanding cheaper admin fees from lenders to reflect this.

    63. Another Union Dividend says:

      Who decided this?

      Once again it looks like the SNP is being far too timid when it comes to promoting Scottishness in case they offend the non-Scots, whom I welcome, among us.

      Does the Scottish Parliament not have the power to declare St Andrew’s day a National and school holiday – perhaps instead of 2nd January .. if business complains?

      On checking TV guide in paper this morning, other than normal news progs the Scottish related programmes are as follows:

      BBC ONE (Scotland) ….. nothing
      BBC TWO (Scotland) …. 60 minutes of Scotland’s National Treasures presented by arch-unionist Muriel Gray and followed by 60 minutes of an English football review programme
      So called STV .. zilch
      Channel Four….. nothing
      BBC Four………nothing
      Sky One … nothing

      This is what we get when a foreign country controls your broadcasting and shapes your culture.

    64. harry mcaye says:

      Worth clicking on the word “worth” in Stu’s first line. I’d forgotten about that story.

      Just got my SNP St Andrew’s Day communication, appealing for money to kick-start indyref2. But if they cannot sort out St Andrew’s Day properly after almost ten years they can whistle for any donation from me.

    65. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 30 November, 2016 at 11:13 am:

      “All those lovely Union Jacks. How wonderful! They just make me feel so proud and so so British.
      Is that what’s supposed to happen? Have I been Britished?

      Is that a bit like being Tangoed, Proud Cybernat?

      … I mean – how daft do they think we are?”

      Dunno, Proud Cybernat, but Ah jalousie it’s afu muckle Daft whit they think wi maun be..

      … I am sure, though, that This blatant BritNat jingoism will work with some soft heads.
      Sad idiots.”

      An Ah’m jist as siccar it wull hae the contrer effect.

    66. Fran says:

      @ Bill McLean

      Naw. I’m West Lothian originally, Aberdeenshire now.

    67. louis.b.argyll says:

      REV.who do pays for these video mapping (so-called) cultural events?

      Anyone can connect a laptop to a £50k projector..

      Check out Oban, Saltire on Google from a couple of years ago..festoons, couple of hundred quid and Boabs yer uncle.

    68. Clootie says:

      At PMQs Angus started with good wishes to Scots on St. Andrews which was greeted with howls?

      The “British First” Scots appear happy to accept such insults – why?

    69. Robert Peffers says:

      @The Man in the Jar says: 30 November, 2016 at 11:17 am

      ““My” Google has since changed and has dropped the Saltire. It is still blue on white but thats it.
      Has someone complained I wonder?”

      Apparently that very loud purring sound in the region of Buck House suddenly increased in volume immediately along with the Google changes. I imagine it was just a coincidence, but.

    70. louis.b.argyll says:

      Fireproof Jim..

      Feck em..

      Haven’t we learned to ignore jumped-up-jobsworths..?

    71. Struan says:

      I find this ban disgusting on every level my ancestors though pictish are most definitely spinning as I am spinning.

      Where or who did this ban come from is their a source?.

    72. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m surprised there’s no poppies on that pair of interplanetary 80″ guns.

    73. K1 says:

      Aye well they cannae mak blue and white smoke fur them jets either o’er Glasgow’s Commonwealth games…they just keep proving our point over and over again: we’re a colony…keep it up arseholes, we’ll be done wi ye’s soon enough…

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scot in Korea says: 30 November, 2016 at 11:47 am:

      ” … I used to think it was the Yoons that had Stockholm Syndrome but maybe some SNPites are now as well.
      This could only happen in Scotland. Incredible.”

      I don’t know if you just do not know, Scot in Korea, but suspect it just has not occurred to you. That there is a great Difference between what constitutes the SNP as a party and the SNP led Government at Holyrood.

      The difference is that much, if not all, of the Civil Servants of the Holyrood Parliament are employees of the United Kingdom Civil Service. Far as I know the only employees of actual Scottish government are those employed by local councils.

      Thus such banning orders may well be made by what is basically a Westminster, English government Civil Servant.

      You may remember the Yoon Loon claims made by high ranking Civil Servants at Whitehall that the then top Holyrood Civil Servant had, “Gone Native”, when he properly supported a decision made by Alex Salmond who he was officially working for.

      I do not for a moment think any SNP MSP would make such a decision.

      Also keep in mind that several of the Holyrood Committees have opposition MSPs as their chairperson and that the Presiding Officer is NOT an SNP Member, (But is supposedly neutral). MacIntosh is most certainly not neutral as some of his recent decisions amply prove.

    75. Douglas says:

      I don’t know who made the daft decision not to project the saltire, but I think the Scottish Government made the right call by not rising to the bait.

      Do the unionist understand nothing about the Scottish psyche?

      Much better that the response to this faux pas is left to the people. Lots seem outraged by it and this does nothing to help the unionist cause -quite the reverse. I think it undermines the ‘proud Scots but’ brigade and might give some pause for thought. The chance to turn us all into ‘North Britons’ was at the height of the empire, now this Union Jackery just annoys.

      Keep up the good work unionists, you are destroying the union.

      Never interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake -Napoleon

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      @Alt Clut says: 30 November, 2016 at 11:57 am:

      The complacency and (small ‘c’) conservative managerialism of the SNP leadership is becoming a real concern to me.”

      As I posted already, no one has yet identified who was responsible for the ban and that the Holyrood committee chairpersons are not all SNP party members.

      There is also the fact that Civil Servants at Holyrood are mainly employees of the United Kingdom Civil Service and may well be the source of the ban.

      I am not at all surprised that all such incidents are immediately followed by people, such as you, who dive in head first to criticise the FM, SNP and SG at every opportunity and we rarely hear from them under any other circumstances.

      The plain fact is that decisions from Holyrood often emanate from the civil service sources, Holyrood Committees and the chairs of those committees who are overstepping their remit.

      ” … and I spent many years in the 70’s and 80’s fighting the same thing in the Labour Party while living in England”, not surprising, then, that you are now losing the same sort of thing when returned to Scotland, is it?

    77. Greannach says:

      I’m glad to hear this. If this is the level the BritNats are operating on, it shows they’re worried.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 30 November, 2016 at 12:05 pm:
      ” … Post independence I will decide which way I vote and for which Party.

      Just now though I stand by Nicola and the SNP regardless of any other issue. I will not join or sanction any infighting until the MAIN objective is achieved. All else is window dressing.”

      Well said that man.

    79. dramfineday says:

      For what it is worth, I agree with most of the posts above. A poor decision that required an instant challenge. Come on Sco gov you can do better than that.

    80. louis.b.argyll says:

      Robert, if you second that.
      ..I’d say it’s carried..

      We hold firm, as a nation, as other nations around us may lurch to a right wing future, we must not lose sight of ourselves.

    81. manandboy says:

      One line of explanation from the SNP or the Scottish Government would have gone/go a very long way. It’s still not too late, of course, and with eight Cabinet Ministers to choose from, I’m sure they are not all too busy all the time.

    82. What say Kezia, Ruth, and Wullie?
      My how the sight of our national flag has them all shitting themselves.
      No mention of St Andrew’s Day on earlier news programmes, but lots about England’s game of clicky ba’ with one of the former colonies, who are apparently cuffing the Englishmen.
      They are running scared.

    83. bugsbunny says:

      Jack and others,

      Is my mind playing tricks with me or was it a case years ago that on St Andrew’s day we would, in addition to tartan, singing and dancing programmes, we would have history programmes and plenty more? And that was with only 4 channels, (3 prior to 1984).

      Or am I thinking of Burns Night?

    84. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 30 November, 2016 at 12:10 pm:

      “So, let’s take this to its ultimate conclusion. If Scotland’s national flag is now being regarded by yoons as “political” then when Scotland play England at Hampden (10th June, 2017), Scotland will not be allowed to fly its national (“political”) flag (FIFA have rules about making political statements) and the SFA could be fined if we do so. “

      A very long time ago, (when Scotland vs England was an annual event), outside the Scottish National stadium I took the proverbial out of a whole coachload of Englanders.

      I have the ability to keep a dead straight face when kidding people on, and this coach was well bedecked with Butcher’s Aprons. As were the supporters pouring out of it. Not only that but, “Goad Help Auld Lizzie”, was getting big locks too and the fans were not only waving exclusively Butcher’s Aprons but not a single St Gorge’s flag was to be seen.

      As I passed them I, (innocently), said, “Hello Chaps, is there a football match on today then”? (Their faces were a picture to behold). I continued, (innocently), “Which team is it you are supporting then, – Queen’s Park perhaps”?

      The face pictures were even more a thing to behold.

      After they had explained, (to what they obviously thought to be a congenital idiot), that it was an international match, I then, (innocently), enquired, “Oh! Is it? What country is it you support then”?

      By this time I’m actually struggling to remain with the straight face when they burst out as a bunch with various versions of, “England of course – don’t you see the flags and hear our National anthem”?

      And I finally cracked up with the straight face I could no longer maintain saying, “Well no I didn’t because the Union flag and the United Kingdom’s flag is not only that of Scotland but Wales and Northern Ireland’s as well as England’s”.

      I kid you not that there was a shocked long moment or two of utter shocked silence as the truth hit them that not only was I correct but that they were NOT waving English Colours but those of all four UK countries.

    85. wull says:

      This simply confirms, once again, that a concerted effort is being made to change the nature of the Union. The objective is to reduce Scotland’s status within the UK to that of Wales and Northern Ireland.

      This flies in the face of historical and legal reality.

      Those who are deliberately orchestrating it include not only Mrs May and her Government Ministers, David Mundell chief among them, but people high up in the Civil Service in Whitehall. They know it’s a lie, but they think if they keep pumping it, everyone will eventually believe them.

      Make no mistake about it: what they are after is the abolition of Scotland. And, ironically, in manipulating their way towards that objective, they are hell bent on abolishing the Union they claim to be defending.

      They are not genuine Uninionists: they are English=British Nationalists. For them the UK, or GB or whatever other epithet they use to describe the state they claim to belong to is simply ‘Greater England’.

      This is a state which has never existed, and has no reality, but which they imagine and adhere to. David Mundell included. They are presently inventing it out of thin air – ex nihilo – with no reference to legal or historical reality. Hence the need to suppress all notion that Scotland is, or indeed ever was, a nation.

      These misguided people are actually revolutionaries. History will be changed, so that a new reality can be invented. That new reality, which never existed, is to be imposed not only on the present, but also on the past. The Union is to be transformed into something it never was, to serve the ambitions and fantasies of Greater England.

      Not only the SNP but all of us do need to stand up for the reality that is Scotland. We really are fighting those who wish to extinguish us. Their mind-set is not new. It is astonsihing how little has changed since the late 13th and early 14th Century. Present circumstances mean that the mask has slipped: all long, ‘their Britian’, ‘their UK’, their ‘Union’ – do you remember Cameron havering on about how much he ‘loved’ ‘our Union, our United Kingdom’ – was Edward I’s version of the same all along.

      In their fevered minds they thought that that was what had – finally! – been achieved in 1707: the abolition of Scotland. They didn’t know the documents, and they did not adhere to them. Instead they adhered only to their own imaginings and fantasies: Edward I’s project had won, and Scotland was no more.

      Now it’s out in the open. Scotland and Scots everywhere are faced with a clear choice: it’s stand up, or disappear for ever.

      And we have to stand up. Not just for our own sake. The world needs an independent Scotland: we stand for something that no one else can supply. Being small makes no difference, and may even be integral to what we have to contribute. There is a unique voice within us, giving expression to that peculiar ‘accent of the mind’, which needs to be heard. It is not just for us, but for others too.

      The orchestra (of nations) needs every instrument within it to be able to make the best possible sound.

      Even England needs an independent Scotland, to save her from her own folly. From that growing madness which is increasingly evident and manifestly dangerous, not only to others but even to herself.

      Old Unionists should be helped to be made aware that the Union they once knew (and loved) is no longer an option: the English nation is in the process of abolishing it. If they think about it, their only option – even to save the Old England they once knew, not least from its own demons – is to claim Scotland’s independence once again.

    86. Ruby says:

      ‘St Andrew is of course the patron saint of ALL of Scotland. He doesn’t belong to the SNP, or to nationalists, but to everyone in the country.’

      Do Unionists celebrate St Andrews Day? I get the impression they are not too keen on anything Scottish.

      Do they wear tartan or is that also too political?

    87. uno mas says:

      Felices dia de San Andres de Tenerife.

      Saint Andrew is also the patron saint of Tenerife and there used to be an extensive explanation of how that came about on the Wikipedia page which now seems to have been expurged completely.

      Paranoid, me?


    88. Ruby says:

      Jack Collatin says:
      30 November, 2016 at 2:30 pm
      What say Kezia, Ruth, and Wullie?

      Ruby replies

      They say ‘Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became Lesser England!’

    89. Big Jock says:

      Och well I have my tartan tie on at work. I am the only one in my office of over a 100. People are so lazy about their culture in Scotland!

    90. mike d says:

      Agree with wullie at 11.41am. The sg need to grow a pair,and do what the majority of the people of Scotland want. Not what Westminster and their Scottish unionist uncle Tom’s tell them to do.

    91. Flower of Scotland says:

      Och well, some of you are reacting as the British State want.

      Don’t let them rile us. I just laugh them off and sent all my yoonionist friends Happy St Andrews day messages.

      On a happier note I got my St Andrews card from the FM as did all SNP members.

    92. uno mas says:

      Now that´s what you call a quality school uniform!

    93. Returnofthemac says:

      O/T politics Scotland. Why oh why do I put myself through this? Brewer, McDonell and Porter in London banging the nails in over income tax, care for the elderly. Murray interrupting tommy Sheppard as per usual. Porter not allowing comeback. Back to the studio in Glasgow where Brewer and Hamish McDonell finish the job off.
      Happy St Andrews day to one and all.

    94. Broch Landers says:

      SNP spotlight is on Blair and Iraq accountability

      No point getting knickers in a twist about St Andrews Cross

      Bigger fish to fry

      That seems to be the thinking

      Anyway, if Unionist officials, managers, clerks etc in the Scotgov bureaucracy,or the NLS, or supermarkets, or whatever, want to alienate soft No voters by banning all signs of Scottishness, for heaven’s sake let them go right ahead.

    95. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 30 November, 2016 at 12:18 pm:

      “I quit the party after 20 years because like others on here I came to the conclusion that they were not bold enough”.

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

      When the SNP were being, “Bold”, with things like attempting to blow up electricity pylons carrying electricity to England, Blowing up Pillar Boxes that bore the ERII mark and recovering the Stone of Destiny they were getting nowhere fast. In those days, when you mentioned you were an SNP member, or even just supported the SNP, you were immediately regarded as a terrorist or at very least a extremist nutjob.

      Now remember in those days Scottish Labour, at all levels, weighed election votes and just about everyone was a card carrying Trade Union Member. These people looked at you as if you had two heads and both such heads were pure evil incarnate.

      It was not until long after such level headed MPs as Winnie Ewing and Margo McDonald actually began to arrived at Westminster, and thus established the SNP as a proper and serious political party, that the SNP’s aims and ambitions were accepted as legitimate politics.

      I have no desire to return to such days. It took a very long time of bitter disappointments to get us to where we are today, even after that establishment, as a serious political party. Even today we have Red Tory nutters yelling Tartan Tories at us. Not to mention comparing the
      present SNP and their members as NAZIs and at the same time, illogically calling us communists.

      How long do you imagine their propaganda would take to start brainwashing their audiences that we are all evil NAZI, communist, terrorists?

      Your argument for the SNP to outdo the Yoon Loon lunatic fringe just does not hold water, Blair.?

      There cannot be one among us that has not had someone on a doorway tell us, “Am voting Labour like ma faither an ma faithers faither bit aa yon MP’s ir the same onywey”.

      They most certainly are NOT the same and I do not want to see any SNP person voted into office even remotely be the same. Whatever else happens, the tactics of the party have brought us this far and when they were acting like the other parties we were going nowhere very fast.

      Never try to sort that which is still working well.

      Have a regard to the many Irish republicans killed and maimed by being aggressive. For what just begins as aggressive verbal attacks upon the Yoons is answered by Westminster by increased aggression and the matter soon escalates until we have events like Bloody Sunday.

      Remember too the Yoons were not slow in sending in the tanks to quell revolt in Glasgow. Their whole history is one of violent suppression of any opposition. The gunboat diplomacy, though, has grown into obliteration by bombs and guided missiles. What the hell else did you imagine that monstrosity at Faslane is if not the threat of the ultimate violence if someone doesn’t do as they are told?

      I have no wish to make martyrs for the cause of Scottish, and my independence. To do otherwise makes me and my countries cause no better than theirs.

    96. Dorothy Devine says:

      Trouble is Broch , as someone has already noticed we have many culturally lazy Scots and if we don’t start shouting there will be bloody union flags stuck to our noses and it will be considered the norm.

      P.s My Google is still saltiring away!

    97. orri says:

      Reading into the one building specifically mentioned as not under direct control of the Scottish Government it might simply have been a case of Edinburgh Castle being the sticking point. After all how would it have looked if everywhere else we had a Saltire and it was a darker brooding shade of blue reminiscent of Snake Mountain without the flowing lava to brighten it up.

    98. Broch Landers says:

      Dorothy, you’re right. The symbols of the nation matter. And we sceptical and self-critical Scots of all backgrounds and places of origin have worked hard together to make it a symbol that nobody has a good moral cause to fear.

      But the SNP are making a specific political point about Blair’s accountability for Iraq which, at this moment, better expresses and defends the values that many soft No voters would see as attractive in an undependent Scotland.

      Plus it’s a wise move for the SNP not to be seen to be hijacking the Saltire at every turn (I’m not saying they are guilty of that, just that’s the Unionist hack narrative).

      Plenty of folk like your good self around to defend the Saltire anyway.

    99. Weechid says:

      If Dumfries Council are following their flag protocol as usual they will be flying the Union Flag today. Makes my blood boil every time I see it,

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      Sturgeon in Ireland

    101. Breeks says:

      Depending of course on who decided what here, I’m quite relaxed that the saltire is thought politically controversial, because, shhh, keep it to yourself, it is quietly becoming synonymous with Scotland’s independence.

      I would also caution people that tearing down each other’s flags, in reality or metaphorically, it is a just short bus journey to full blown blood and soil Nationalism where flags are burned, and fists begin to fly. That might suit the Unionist agenda, but not ours.

      This spiteful derision intended for the saltire is unionist agitation / provocation, call it what you will. Please recognise the drill, but don’t bite.

      I don’t want the right to cause or prevent the saltire being projected onto the side of a building. Couldn’t care less frankly. I’ve gone through most of my life without feeling any inadequacy from not seeing the spectacle of 60ft flag projected onto a building.

      What I want is Scottish Independence to be the norm, and in a permanently settled state of “normal” projecting the nation’s flag onto the side of the building is colourful and pretty, patriotic with a small “p”, ….but thoroughly unremarkable.

      So what if Unionism can paint 50ft high Union Jacks all over the place? The Unionists can also boast wall to wall propaganda in the media too, but for all their clear advantage over the home team, they are still fighting an ill disciplined retreat against the progressive changes happening in Scotland, … and we’re in full control of those.

      So go ahead Unionists, paint the town red, white and blue, literally if you must, but just be aware, I can trump your Union Jack. Not with my saltire, but with my complete indifference to your unhinged and desperate screaming to be more British. Your propaganda no worky here, whatever the colour, whatever the size. … Away hame and think again. Your Butchers Apron has never looked more foreign to me.

    102. geeo says:

      Flags and outrage aside…

      We have bigger problems to worry about…yes folks, that crushing burden to an independent Scotland has raised its head again…OIL.

      After the OPEC meeting today to spur the price upwards again, oil increased in price by 8% in a matter of hours.

    103. Well said, Breeks.
      A day of reckoning is coming; probably some time in March 2017, when May triggers Art. 50, and Europe politely tells the Arch Right Tory Junta to fuckez-off.
      There is no way that we will allow a narrow unelected Blue Tory Fascisti to drag us out of Europe against our democratic wishes.

    104. Ron Maclean says:

      @Robert Peffers 1619

      That seems a very unfair interpretation of Blair Paterson’s 1218 comment. Are you trying to set him up?

    105. William Purves says:

      There is only one certainty with independance, Scotland will be able to set ALL TAXES, COLLECT ALL TAXES and SPEND ALL TAXES as it sees fit

    106. Mavis Petrie says:

      When did Scotland become, “North Britain”??

    107. yesterday Fiona Hyslop was being blamed for this so I asked her directly and this is the response
      think it was several years ago and a gov official – I only heard about it Saturday, it needs some kit expect it for 2017

    108. Artyhetty says:

      Might it even be illegal to ban a people from displaying their national flag?

      United Nations, on the rights of indigenous people, includes depriving them culturally, etc.

      Hope it’s ok to share and sorry, I am just useless at links.

      A very happy St.Andrews day everyone!

    109. Cal says:

      I’ve tried to make two long posts on this thread and both didn’t appear.I can’t waste anymore time. I give up!

    110. Andy MacNicol says:

      Robert Peffers says:30 November, 2016 at 4:19 pm

      “There cannot be one among us that has not had someone on a doorway tell us, “Am voting Labour like ma faither an ma faithers faither bit aa yon MP’s ir the same onywey”.”

      Been there, done that. On one occasion I rose to the bait and asked him if he thought it was maybe time he had a mind of his own. A neatly executed right hook floored me and, as my arms were full of leaflets, I could do nothing about it. I met him in a pub a few weeks later and he came over and apologised. His father had died only a couple of months earlier. I also apologised for saying what I had. He then stunned me by telling me that that incident had got him thinking and after some research, he had voted SNP.

    111. Iain More says:

      I hope the modern day Daniel Defoes has been sacked!

    112. Glamaig says:

      just noticed this via Fiona Hyslops twitter. I had no idea this existed! The biggest relief map in the world, showing Scotland, built by Poles, in Peebles.

      My neighbour for many years was an old Polish soldier who came over in 1939 and had been stationed just up the road from our house. He had married a local girl and stayed. One of his ancestors of many generations before had been Scottish. The links between our countries run deep!

    113. Ghillie says:


      We recieved a lovely St Andrew’s Day card from Nicola today = )

      With Scotland’s Independence the celebrations on St Andrews Day WILL blossom into the truly joyous national thanksgiving it should be when we will do that typicaly Scottish thing of making all folk welcome!

      And to the folk of Barbados : God bless Bim on Independence Day = )

    114. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @ Glamaig says at 8:49 pm

      BDTT posted a flyover of the mapascotland over on offtopic the other week.

    115. The Rough Bounds. says:

      Back in the sixties we got so absolutely sick of the sight of the Union Flags flying instead of Saltires that we used to drive around looking for them and pulling them down.

      We sensed a change was happening in the late sixties when my pal Brian and I jumped into his car one day to see if there were any Union flags around. We drove around the local industrial estate for an hour or two and eventually gave up as there wasn’t one of them to be seen.

      Brian turned to me and said ”Not a single Union Jack to be had… what an unpatriotic shower of bastards”

      Possibly one of the best laughs I have ever had.

      Happy St. Andrews Day to everyone: even you Brits.

    116. Stephen says:

      I have visited Canada several time and a lot of houses fly their flag!

    117. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ron Maclean says: 30 November, 2016 at 6:52 pm:

      “That seems a very unfair interpretation of Blair Paterson’s 1218 comment. Are you trying to set him up?”

      So just what do you think is unfair about it, Ron?

      As to setting him up. In the first place I do not try to set folks up and in the second place I had no need to for Blair, over the past couple of weeks has been setting himself up.

      He’s been mumping about the SNP for weeks now. Claiming they should have done this, that or the other thing like he wants them to do.

      Now I do not know, and would not presume to speak for others, but I’m heartily sick of people who claim to support the SNP but who keep having fly digs at every opportunity.

      As far as I go the SNP, and the Grassroots YES Movement, have brought us to the closest point since 1st May 1707 of getting out of this unequal and abusive union.

      I’ve been at this independence battle since around 1946 and I have levelled criticism at the party myself. However, I did it when their tactics were losing support and elections because of their tactics.

      At this moment the party is gaining members and support from Scots who are not members too. Why then attempt to sort something not broken? The lowest points ever reached in support have coincided with times when the party was being, rightly or wrongly, associated with extremism.

      To my mind the party, and especially our First Minister and party leader, have been sure footed and not put a foot wrong. That in spite of an unremitting, and seemingly co-ordinated, “SNP BAD”, campaign by every unionist party, former party Leaders, former deputy leaders and almost the entire biased and lying media.

      The last thing the movement needs is to be pressed to return to being more aggressive and thus putting fence sitters backs up. Just get the feel of people here on wings when we get treated as we have just as in this particular article. Do you imagine that when the Yoons are being attacked they don’t react the very same way?

    118. HandandShrimp says:

      Only in a country under occupation would it be considered too political to fly the national flag on the national saint’s day of that country.

      What are they trying to tell us?

    119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Glamaig at 8:49 pm.

      You typed,
      “just noticed this via Fiona Hyslops twitter. I had no idea this existed!”

      As Jockanese Wind talker hinted, you should dip into ‘off-topic’ now and again! Perchance Ms Hyslop is a visitor… From 13th November,

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy MacNicol says: 30 November, 2016 at 7:46 pm:

      ” … A neatly executed right hook floored me and, as my arms were full of leaflets, I could do nothing about it.”

      Aye! Andy. We’ve all been there or very close to there. I was never actually hit but on more than one occasion had to either defend myself or take evasive action.

      Fortunately I trained, (as a cadet), with the RAF Regiment just Post WWII and their training was NOT like Judo as it was not really self-defence but unarmed combat.

      I’ll never forget the instructor teaching us how to disarm a guy with a fixed bayonet. How to first parry the thing and then use the enemies own momentum to throw him to the ground while restraining him in an arm lock with his face on the ground.

      Then he said, “as you have him lying on his face while pinning him down with his arm locked, if you want to be really nasty then you stand on his other hand with your War Department boot and grind in into the ground before then dislocating his elbow and shoulder.”

      Joking aside I did have very fast reactions back then.

      Here is no doubt that canvasing can be full of surprises both nasty and pleasant and not a few good laughs.

    121. Alan Gerrish says:

      Capella says:
      30 November, 2016 at 12:49 pm
      Driving through Scandinavia, you see national flags everywhere. Danish, Norwegian, Swedish – public buildings, monuments, but also many private houses, have their own flagpole with the flag fluttering away without cringe.

      That’s what I would love to see here in Scotland…now. What I have never seen in Scandinavia though is the projection of national flags onto buildings, as they repect their flags too much for that. Honestly, I think it looks really tacky when you do this (just look at the pictures at the top of this thread)and it’s not something I would like to see here, although I agree with sentiments about being able to do it if we so choose. But why should we try to prove to the Britnats that we can do what they do by creating equally tasteless symbols of nationality?

      What we should and must do is encourage the flying of the Saltire as much as possible – Saltires of the agreed colour and a decent size, please!

    122. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Alan Gerrish.

      It was decided by the Scottish Parliament, some years ago, that the blue of the Saltire is Pantone 300. It is more sky blue than the dark blue you see on many flags.

      That nods in the direction of the legend of the Saltire being seen in the sky prior to that battle around 800 oatcake, the name and date of which I can’t recall right now.

      Just did a quick Google – the Battle of Athelstaneford.

      “According to popular legend, Athelstaneford is where the original Scottish saltire – the white diagonal cross on a sky blue background – was first adopted. On the eve of a battle between an army of the Picts and invading Angles from Northumbria in 832AD, Saint Andrew, who was crucified on a diagonal cross, came to the Pictish King Óengus II in a vision promising victory. The next morning the Picts saw a white cross formed by clouds in the sky. They won the battle and attributed their victory to the blessing of Saint Andrew, adopting his form of the cross as their flag, and naming him as their patron saint.”

    123. Alan Gerrish says:

      Thanks for that, Brian. So we have the origin of the flag, the colour of the flag, now all we need is a wee bit of etiquette and awareness for using the flag with pride and respect and and we’re home and dry. Let us never think that the way the butchers apron is abused by fashioning into boxer shorts, cushions etc is something to aspire to or the normal way to treat a flag. When I see the way the union flag is plastered over everything in the supermarkets I think it just indicates a state which has a real identity crisis and is trying to justify its existence when in fact all it does is demonstrate its weakness and insecurity.

      We can do better than this

    124. Iain Halder says:

      This is really outrageous and a serious affront yet in Westminster what did we get from Angus Robertson? Two dumbass and totally pointless questions about frigging Aleppo! This was after he was boo’ed by unionist pricks for referencing St.Andrews day.

      The SNP need to come out and start fighting for Scotland in Westminster and I’m getting sick-to-death of seeing Scotland’s two (two ffs) questions being wasted on nicey-nicey pseudo-internationalist crap. They are being to nice down there and we need to start seeing some constructive anger.

    125. Undeadshuan says:

      RE all comments on Google.

      The desktop site had an animated flag in ie the Mobile site had a button you clicked.
      It was there all day. Do you realise that if you log into Google, your searches etc are curated by algorithms?

    126. Les Wilson says:

      Alan Gerrish says:

      I agree with you Alan,but this was ST Andrews day, not to be done daily, the Unionists are trying to stick their agenda down our throats, their flags have no limit. Desperation and tacky now. Such is their extremes to deny Scotland democracy.

      It is an utter disgrace that we cannot make a big deal for our patron saint, for this annual event.
      I would like to know who blocked it, the SNP should have just had it done and told Westminster or whoever blocked it to GTF.

      I have had enough of their devious agenda’s to continue to belittle Scotland. We so need out of this abusive “Union”

    127. Breeks says:

      Minor curiosity about flags, but when I was a nipper, the saltire was commonly a navy blue, not sky blue.
      I understand the blue comes literally from the colour of the sky, but why then does every union jack feature a navy blue saltire?

      I’m not trawling for a grievance, but genuinely curious. It could be as prosaic as mere fashion or taste, or perhaps some feature of traditional pigments used in dye which made a dark blue easier to make. I just don’t know the reason.

      Needless to say, I have never seen a union jack with blue segments other than Navy blue.

    128. Alan Read says:

      It would look fun then but so political as always.

    129. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re Saltire I’m sure I’ve read somewhere , it has to be said many moons ago so I could be havering that the Saltire was originally a red background (to represent the blood of those who fought for our nation) I have seen facsimilies of old documents with such a Saltire. Anybody know ?

    130. Des B says:

      Dear Rev, why this year? who dunnit? Been trying to check this out. Suspicions are Historic Scotland, Crown Office, as the ruling of too political was for Historic Buildings Only. Scottish Govt defo been used out of context. R U able to get to the nuts and bolts??

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