Scottish independence, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Let’s play pretend

Posted on May 05, 2013 by

Let’s imagine for a second, just for a bit of fun, that this was a prominent SNP or Yes Scotland activist, rather than a Labour one who’s the main contributor to LabourHame and regularly employed by the BBC for some cosy chat on the Sunday Politics.

polespakis

Charles Green wasn’t using the P-word in a hateful or prejudiced way either, but he got slammed all over the media, chased out of his job and fined £2500. We’re guessing it’s a non-story here, though. Shall we all have a look at the papers tomorrow and find out?

But incredibly, the P-word isn’t even the most offensive thing.

It’s not just the use of a particular word that’s so outrageous here. The unequivocal implication is that the entire Scottish nation is inherently racist, and would “turn on” ethnic minorities if the economy suffered from independence. (Not that there’s a scrap of evidence to suggest that it would, and all the data suggests the opposite.)

We’re not sure how that stacks up, given that the economy’s on its knees right now and we’re not aware of any increase in racist violence in Scotland, but when you’re a Labour diehard looking for anything that you could possibly use to somehow smear the independence movement, who cares?

We’re sure poor mad Ian Smart doesn’t hate Poles or people from Pakistan. What the comment (and numerous others which followed it) indicates is that he despises Scots, largely for not voting Labour any more.

But what of the press? A second-rate comedian allegedly taking a few brickbats from some anonymous commenters, with no evidence to prove it even happened at all, got blanket media coverage last week (with the Herald claiming it was proof of, and we quote, “SNP intolerance”, despite nobody knowing who any of the alleged abusers were, let alone whether they had any connection to the SNP).

We’re going to go ahead and predict total silence, though, over a BBC pundit using one of the worst words in the racist lexicon to dub the whole of his own nation vicious bigots (and being defended by the last Labour First Minister for it). And then we’ll all truly know where we stand, once and for all.

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216 to “Let’s play pretend”

  1. Richard Lucas says:

    I did ask Mr Smart to explain his remarks soon after he made them, but he seems to have come over all bashful and reticent. I’m sure Douglas Alexander will have a word, though :)

  2. sneddon says:

    Is anyone surprised?  Smart by name asshole by nature.  I think that sort of language wouldn’t make the Law Society happy.

  3. Adam Davidson says:

    Is this clown not a practicing solicitor? Is it a wind up?

  4. AnneDon says:

    Translation: Rather 100 years of Tory rule than I and my Labour chums find our route to the House of Lords cut off.
    As you say, the country is already on its knees, and there’s no sign of this type of racist violence in Scotland.
    And, of course, the racists and sectarian bigots are all in the No campaign.
     

  5. Bobby Mckail says:

    The thing is these people know they can make these sort of booboo’s in public and their Media pals will tin ear it.

  6. Bobby Mckail says:

    Wonder if someone will report this racist jibe to the Police!? Remember Leigh Griffiths? Hibs player sent borderline racist tweet and was plastered all over the news and radio next day.

  7. Jeannie says:

    Well, I just don’t understand Ian Smart’s comment at all.  Wasn’t it just at lunchtime today that his friend from the Scotsman, Peter McMahon along with Guardian journalist Kirsty Scott made their heartfelt pleas for this type of cyber abuse to stop?  Has anyone let Peter know about this?

  8. beachthistle says:

    This is his latest tweet:
    If the cybernats want to protest,among themselves, about how anti-racist they supposedly are, could they leave me out? I’ve formed a view.

  9. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    If this dickhead is so pissed that he typed ‘on’ when he meant to type ‘of’, the implications are different, albeit every bit as offensive.
     
    Either way, that peculiar sound in the distance is someone’s career hitting the deck at high speed – the guy is toast. If he isn’t – and soon – then we’ll know this is another part of the Great Wind-Up prior to social-media being hammered big-time.
     

  10. HandandShrimp says:

    beachthistle
     
    I take he he is saying he is a racist and proud of it then….actually I haven’t a clue what he is on about.
     
    Who is he again, not a name I recognise.

  11. Indy_Scot says:

    The thing is they can do and say what they want, they know that it will not get reported by the unionist media. They are just trying to provoke a response so that it can be used by the unionist media for their own end.

  12. Jiggsbro says:

    If you listen very carefully, you may be able to hear the sound of the press not giving a single fuck.

  13. beachthistle says:

    @HandandShrimp
    Ian Smart  says he is a Lefty lawyer; Scottish Labour Party hack.
    He’s now trying to spin it that he is talking about the racism of cybernats, regarding which he thinks he has some evidence. His latest tweet:
    “It’s really interesting when you touch the racist nerve in cybernattery.”
    This will be ignored by the BBC and the rest of the MSM and he knows it. He is one of the untouchables…

  14. Richard Lucas says:

    He seems to be claiming that his remarks echo something said in National Collective about the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire – I’m not kidding!

  15. Tris says:

    What next? Will they accuse us of turning on the sick and disabled if, being one of the the richest countries in the world we find that we can’t afford benefits… Oh no, wait a minute, they already turned on them.
     
    OK, the old then… they’ll say that we’ll not be able to afford pensions and healthcare for the old… oh damn…too late… they’ve started moving retirement towards 70.
     
    It must be hard work trying to invent yet another fantastical nutcase idea to accuse  us with.
     
    Although I’ve seen some terrible racism in some places in England, I’ve never seen it here (although I’m sure it exists), but it’s not Scotland that just voted in a raft of UKIP councillors.
     
    If he’s a practising lawyer, god help us.  Sneddon had it right above …
     
    “Smart by name; arsehole by nature.”

  16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/380949/Alex-Salmond-urged-to-sack-slavery-row-councillor-David-Berry

    “David Berry, a former leader of East Lothian Council and a Holyrood election candidate, claimed Scots were like England’s slaves who referred to their masters as “Massah”.

    Mr Berry, who came within just 121 votes of unseating former Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray in the May 2011 poll, also claimed Scotland was like an “abused wife” who needed a divorce.

    To suggest the people of Scotland are slaves is insulting, not least to those who fought in two world wars to ensure we enjoy the freedom we do.

    Patricia Ferguson, Scottish Labour’s constitutional spokeswoman

    Last night party chiefs said there was no need to discipline Mr Berry for his remarks made on social networking site Twitter after he apologised.

    But opposition politicians called on SNP leader Mr Salmond to axe him saying the “despicable” views represented the “ugly face of nationalism”.”

  17. Eva says:

    Mr Smart is a solicitor practising from an office in Cumbernauld. He is a Past President of the Law Society of Scotland. The Society may wish to take a view as to whether they consider that this tweet of his is racist.

  18. Nairn says:

    There’s a core of real terror at the heart of this. I think its a sign that a lot of mainstream Labour types are beginning to realize that their real, reactionary views are starting to be exposed. For years, it was easy for them to define themselves against the Tories, to look like progressives by default, but now they’re left holding the bag for a busted UK alongside Little Englanders, Orangemen and bigots, while they oppose actual progressive moves. Hence the existential crisis ripping through Labour in Scotland. Hopefully the decent ones amongst them are waking up to this, and will rise against it. Otherwise, they’re all stuck shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

  19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    (And of course, let’s not even mention that this is a Scottish Labour luminary saying 100 years of the Tories is better than independence.)

  20. HandandShrimp says:

    David Berry’s comments were hyperbole, OTT and not how I would go about things but they are not offensive. Smart’s comments are on the other hand well dodgy and if a Yes Scotland person had said them the shit would hit the fan.
     
    Presumably Smart is not a racist and it shows just how easy it is to make a complete prick of yourself on Twitter…(note to self: never get a Twitter account)

  21. Taranaich says:

    In what way would this completely imaginary “turn on the Poles and Pakistanis” be different from what is being suggested RIGHT NOW in the form of tougher anti-immigration measures being put in place by – oh, who’s in government right now?
    Of course, it’s not just the use of a particular word that’s so offensive here. The unequivocal implication is that the entire Scottish nation is inherently racist, and would “turn on” ethnic minorities if the economy suffered from independence.
     
    The only possible explanation I can think of is that Mr Smart is so virulently racist himself that he cannot possibly imagine the rest of Scotland being any less racist than himself. Really, it’s the only explanation I can think of that doesn’t make him look like an irredeemable, despicable human being.

  22. heedbaw says:

    Not very bright this Mr Smart. “I’m not racist but I’ll single out two nationalities, using a derogatory term for one, rather than saying immigrants.”
    Well done

  23. Geoff Huijer says:

    Unbelievable!

  24. Jiggsbro says:

    You can see how the Twitter character limit might have meant he couldn’t type ‘Pakistanis’ in full. But not how it might have made the word ‘Asians’ disappear from his vocabulary.

  25. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    Wondered if it is the same Smart who was president of the LSoS, but he’s such a bampot I found it hard to believe. May be that Kenny McA wiped the floor with him at that time over legal aid reform, which would certainly explain the bitter & twisted routine.  

  26. Kirsten Maclean says:

    “Charles Green wasn’t using the p-word in a hateful or prejudiced way either” – Surely this word is hateful and prejudiced no matter who uses it and whatever way it is intendend? 

  27. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @HandandShrimp
    I couldn’t disagree more! 
    Mr Smart, and I use the surname ironically, projected racist views onto an a large community. Now according to Sigmund Freud, “projection” is a psychological  defence mechanism whereby one “projects” undesirable or unacceptable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else.
    Therefore the question still stands.
    Isn’t it likely that Mr Smart a closet racist?
    If so, Mr Smart ought to seek out therapy?

  28. Paul Martin says:

    If I had the resources, I’d plaster this as a poster across every wall and billboard in Scotland. Let this country see what kind of sick, bitter, twisted individuals are at the core of BetterTogether and SLAB these days.
     

  29. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ““Charles Green wasn’t using the p-word in a hateful or prejudiced way either” – Surely this word is hateful and prejudiced no matter who uses it and whatever way it is intendend?”

    That’s an arguable point, certainly. I tend fall on the side that the offensiveness of a word depends largely on its intent, but there are some that I’d personally never say, in ANY context no matter how well-intentioned, because there’s just no way I could hope to do so without being quite understandably crucified.

    The n-word is one, and the p-word is probably another. Black/Asian people might be able to get away with “reclaiming” them (although, ask Reginald D Hunter about that this week), but I don’t think we’re anywhere near a position where white people can.

    Nevertheless, I wanted to be careful to only say things that were clearly true. I very much doubt (though of course I don’t actually know) that Ian Smart is a racist, and I think highlighting the offensiveness of what he’s done will be very much less powerful if we distort, misrepresent or exaggerate it. Frankly, it just doesn’t need exaggerating.

  30. ianbrotherhood says:

    As non-Twitterer, have to expand conversations etc, but found this, from ‘Colin Quinn':
     
    ‘I’ll undo the retweet and you delete it. Let’s put it down to an error of judgement?’
     
    He was, far as I can tell, replying to Smart.

  31. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @Taranaich 
    Agreed. Mr Smart’s tweet seems to be a perfect example of Psychological Projection

  32. Morag says:

    “Charles Green wasn’t using the p-word in a hateful or prejudiced way either” – Surely this word is hateful and prejudiced no matter who uses it and whatever way it is intendend?
     
    Not necessarily.  I post on a forum where we regularly cross swords with alternative medicine fruitcakes, and homoeopaths in particular.  At one stage a group of homoeopaths from Pakistan appeared on the forum and began spouting the sort of nonsense these guys usually spout, except this lot were on steroids.

    Quite often, in their posts, they would refer to their own group as “the Paki homoeopaths”.  These were people who actually lived in Pakistan, and seemed to use the abbreviation as naturally as we would say “Scot” for “Scottish”.

    The moderators of the forum simply didn’t know what to do about it, because if one of us had used that word we’d have been on the naughty step without a doubt.

  33. pmcrek says:

    This always was the mantra in full, “Too wee too poor too stupid and too racist.”

  34. Kirsten Maclean says:

    Thanks Stuart, I agree.

  35. Jeannie says:

    I’m actually a bit shocked at Jack McConnell’s comments on the same twitter feed.  He’s a former First Minister and a member of the House of Lords, for goodness sake, and he’s wading in, not only in defence of Ian Smart, but is trying to deflect everyone away from the issue of Smart’s comments and onto the SNP.  Can’t believe he’d get involved in something like this.

  36. HandandShrimp says:

    Frankly, it just doesn’t need exaggerating.
     
    This
     
    Just his own words stuck on 20 foot billboard..nothing else required.

  37. Adrian B says:

    Its not Ian Smart’s first twitter gaffe either. He seems to manage one every now and again, this is just the worst to date. There is no excuse – he certainly wasn’t provoked into making this comment. A man who has worked in the legal profession for a number of years should be able to conduct himself in a manner befitting his job description. Certainly there are many not nearly as well off as he is that show greater decency and resolve in public than he manages. 
     
    I think Ian needs to make a meaningful apology on his blog tomorrow and make a good sized donation to a local charity. Eat humble pie for a day or two and move on, but learn from it Ian and be civil to your political opponents – your not going to keep getting away with these comments. One day its going to land you in a lot of trouble and I doubt may from your own side will stick up for you, given the response tonight.
     
     

  38. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

    Quick biblical paraphrase: Out of their own mouths, they condemn themselves.

  39. HandandShrimp says:

    ian
     
    Bit late for him to delete it as it is now reproduced far and wide. Little is said that can be unsaid on the internets…which is why it is so damned weird that no one can produce the threats to Calman.

  40. Yesitis says:

    Jeannie
    “I’m actually a bit shocked at Jack McConnell’s comments on the same twitter feed.”
    Yep. Jack McConnell is not holding back. Awful.
     
    https://twitter.com/MhairiHunter/status/331162216990662657

  41. Morag says:

    The problem with the Calman thing is that it probably traces back to some derogatory comments of the sort that anyone trying to make a career in comedy should be used to shrugging off.  But she thought she’d stir something up by playing the martyr, and now daren’t point to the original material because it’s something completely petty.

  42. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    So, Jack ‘The McConnell’ refuses to condemn Smart’s comments, but asserts that ‘cybernat packhunting…needs challenged’.
     
    It’s pretty obvious where this is going.
     
    You’ll have to excuse me…cybernat business calls…I’m off to the nearest Maternity Unit to chuck some premature babies out of their incubators.
     
     

  43. Morag says:

    The more I think this can’t get any more “Through the Looking Glass”, the more it does.

  44. Jiggsbro says:

    but is trying to deflect everyone away from the issue of Smart’s comments and onto the SNP
     
    He has a point, though. There is no one in the SNP trying to change the party. There they are, hugely successful and popular, and yet no one has the balls to radically change them into something unelectable. What they need is a Tony Blair type figure to drag them to the right along with every other party, so that there’s a level playing field and Labour have a fighting chance.

  45. Adrian B says:

    Jack McConnell waded into things and despite not knowing what was going on, or what had originally been said by Ian Smart – he chose to back him up, despite being given a clear warning by Mhari Hunter “seriously? You are a former First Minister, don’t get into this crap.”.
     
    McConnell perseveres “@MhairiHunter @ianssmart You are so predictable I couldn’t resist – knew there would be ‘shocked’ cybernates on to me in minutes. #getalife
     
    Ohhh, I wonder why Jack, the fact that you are not in the least bit interested in condemning the comments made by Ian Smart speaks volumes.
     

  46. Morag says:

    Well, let that be the end to people expressing respect for McConnell and hoping he’ll come round to suporting independence.
     
    Stu, are you thinking of doing any “I’m a Cybernat” t-shirts?  I haven’t seen one I really like yet.

  47. Baheid says:

    Aamar Anwar getting involved now
    have I got sumthing wrong or did u really say this, an expresident of law society and a labour man?

  48. Morag says:

    Linky?

  49. Baheid says:

    Aamer Anwar ?@AamerAnwar14m
    @ianssmart have I got sumthing wrong or did u really say this, an expresident of law society and a labour man? pic.twitter.com/yI34sfOPhJ

     Retweeted by AlexAirlieINDY
      Hide photo 

     Reply 
     Retweet 
     Favorite 

     More

  50. Baheid says:

    Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don’t know how to link tweets

  51. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m a bit saddened by McConnell’s comments. He doesn’t even seem to know what Smart said but rather is adopting a “whatever annoys the Nats is OK with me” stance.
    Also, what is all this reforming the party stuff about? Labour are a rudderless, policy free vacuum.
    Twitter really is a place where the intellect goes to die.

  52. pmcrek says:

    Jiggsbro
    lol

  53. Roddy Macdonald says:

    Quite apart from the racist language and the notion that all that keeps feral Scots from descending into racist thuggery is the firm hand of Westminster government; The notion from an alleged Socialist that 100 years of the Tories would be better than self-determination for Scots shows this Labour hack, like many of his colleagues, to be all about the pursuit of power their own personal benefit, not through any socialist conviction.
    The fact that the ermine-clad Jack McConnell sees nothing wrong with what he’s said perhaps illustrates that he sympathises that his fellow Labour hack may not reach the heights of Imperial baubles and fripperies that would be his due had Labour hegemony survived in Scotland.

  54. muttley79 says:

    Ian Smart has become increasingly extreme in the last year or so.  His comments have become nastier and more offensive.  He appears to have lost self respect, and is just trying to goad SNP and other independence supporters.  I find his behaviour and comments worrying.     

  55. Yesitis says:

    Morag
     
    Here you go. It`s bizarre.
    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/331177160746340353

  56. Jeannie says:

    A Labour Party activist has used a racist term on-line and implied that if things don’t go well with independence the Scottish people will turn on foreigners in Scotland.  And the former First Minister of Scotland, whose wages were paid by the people of Scotland, and who still takes their money from his position in the unelected House of Lords, doesn’t see fit to stand up and say that the people who pay his wages are not in fact violent racists.   And this on a day when they’ve been calling publically for mutual respect.  And all Jack McConnell can think to do under the circumstances is have another attempt at nat-bashing.
     
    Labour claim we’re not listening to their message.  I have a message for them:  We hear you loud and clear.  We just don’t like what you’re saying.  And if you carry on like this, you’ll find yourself unelectable in Scotland whether we vote Yes or No.
     
     

  57. Baheid says:

    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar
     
    Heh heh, know how to do it now.
    That’s his next tweet

  58. Jimbo says:

    Adrian B, 1155 pm.

     
    I would contend that wee Joke McConnell did know of Smart’s original comment – Hence his comment “You are so predictable I couldn’t resist – knew there would be ‘shocked’ cybernates on to me in minutes.”
     
    If he didn’t know of Smarts racist comment, why did know anyone would be shocked at his support of Smart?

     
    These people are merely Labour drones. They’re not as smart as they like to think they are.

  59. Doug Daniel says:

    When the media fail to report this, anyone taking them to task will probably be told that Ian Smart is not a person of any importance whatsoever, that this is simply a lone example of what they still claim is a rarity from the No side, and that it’s therefore not newsworthy. Now, we’d all know that was utter crap, because we know fine if a indy supporter did it, it’d be the top story on Newsnicht for a week.
     
    But McConnell wading into it truly makes this newsworthy. A former First Minister defending some guy going on some loony racist rant? That’s front page stuff.
     
    Except for viewers in Scotland, of course.

  60. Morag says:

    Did Smart really say, “As a white Christian and was born here, I am frightened of Nat agenda.”

    I can only find someone repeating it, not the tweet itself, but WTF????

  61. Ron says:

    Jack diverts attention from his error of judgement in supporting Smart by demanding “cybernats” (itself an offensive term, I would contend) show evidence they condemn anti English comments.
     
    Which anti English comments, sensible people ask? Tumbleweeds ….

  62. Adrian B says:

    @ Jimbo, aye , Jack knew exactly what had been said, thats why he started deflecting the story around to Nats should condem anti English tweets. Jack didn’t offer any examples up that I saw.
     
    Labour supporting lawyer (who gets paid by the BBC to give political views) makes bad comment – nothing to see here – please move along.
     
    Some random unknown, unidentified yes supporter, allegedly might have said something anti English, no exampled supplied - BAD, please deal with this issue
     
    COMPLETE SQUIRREL MOMENT

  63. creag an tuirc says:

    @Adrian B
    Agree, Jack My Candle stepped in to take the heat away from ‘not so Smart’

  64. muttley79 says:

    Ian Smart is a British Nationalist, as is Jack McConnell.  They will never admit it, but they are.  McConnell should never have been FM anyway, the guy never had the talent needed for the position.  He was a standard SLAB apparatchik.  They just cannot accept that Scottish Labour have lost their hegemony here.  They hate the SNP so much that it has blinded themselves to the poison that is poring out from their own side.  The MSM will likely ignore Smart’s remarks in the same way as they did Foulkes’ comments about the rape case a few while ago.  Hear no evil speak no evil appears to be the MSM’s attitude to abuse from Unionists.

  65. Jimbo says:

    Doe anyone else get the feeling that the Labour Party in Scotland are attempting to engender Racist/Sectarian trouble?

  66. Yesitis says:

    It`s all gone way too far now, but no doubt there`s more to come.

     @Jimbo

    Yes, yes I do.

  67. ron17 says:

    They are trying very hard to provoke,someone/anyone with the slightest connection to indy/Snp/Yes.The printing machine is at the ready,the story is written the verdict is Guilty.

  68. YesYesYes says:

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell,
     
    “(And of course, let’s not even mention that this is a Scottish Labour luminary saying 100 years of the Tories is better than independence)”.
     
    Damn right! Not only are we going to mention this, we need to highlight this again and again. Because what Smart is saying here is something that applies to every member of ‘Scottish’ Labour. They would, every single one of them, rather see Scotland governed by the Westminster Tories for the next 100 years than see Scotland independent. They have, after all, demonstrated this by their actions over the last thirty years, while, shamefully, trying to make political capital in Scotland out of their alleged ‘opposition’ to the Tories, including, absurdly, blaming the SNP for eighteen years of Thatcherism. I’m pleased this is out in the open now, because it’s something that has been apparent for several decades now.
     
    It’s interesting that Smart’s shameful outburst followed his blogpost about Ed Miliband’s disastrous leadership, and came a few days after further confirmation that the right is in the ascendant in English politics. Scottish Labour is in trouble, deep trouble, and they know it. What Smart’s tweet illustrates is something that we are all too familiar with, regarding Scottish Labour. When they are in a hole, they will not hesitate to attempt to drag everyone else down with them.  

  69. Adrian B says:

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the Labour Party in Scotland are attempting to engender Racist/Sectarian trouble?
     
    I don’t like thinking about it, but it looks as though this might be the case – the organised football demonstrations that were not legal and now Ian Smarts comments, perhaps designed to stir up racist/sectarian trouble. I hope nothing comes of it.
     
    I read Ian’s blog tonight – its quite revealing – Labour are unelectable is the conclusion he draws before stating “We can do better. Time to think again.”
     
    I hope that Ian Smart can take is own advice and I hope that Labour can too.
     
     
     

  70. YesYesYes says:

    Is Ian Smart the Enoch Powell of Scottish politics? What a relief that he couldn’t fit the words ‘River Tiber’ into 140 characters.

  71. YesYesYes says:

    Is there any truth in the rumour that Enoch Smart has resigned from the Labour Party and joined UKIP?

  72. Barontorc says:

    Any one seen NNS take on this?

  73. CameronB says:

    Late to the party as usual, so apologies if someone has already pointed this out. Not that I am disagreeing for one minute with the criticism of Ian Smart’s divisiveness. It is utterly shameless and smacks of more than a little desperation.
     
    Please correct me if I am wrong though, but I thought Paki-stan means Beatiful-land.

  74. Oldnat says:

    CameronB
    It means “Land of the Pure” and as an acronym stands for PunjabNorth-West Frontier Province (Afghan Province), KashmirSindh, and Baluchistan (Wiki)

  75. Stakhanovite says:

    Many years ago and in another life I was a trainee solicitor under Ian Smart at a legal firm in Easterhouse – he was sane, and coherent then,  actually a really affable left of centre socialist, so Christ knows what’s wound him up these last few years. His father was a past lord provost of Paisley I think, maybe he’s “got issues” as he’s never got that cushy labour seat he’s coveted ?
     
     

  76. Doug Daniel says:

    Something I find quite disconcerting about this is the reaction to his comments from some people – the kind of folk for whom Stu has so kindly coined the term “WetNats”. What Ian has said is utterly appalling and surely indefensible, yet there are still people prepared to come to his defence because they know him personally. They insist that there’s simply no way Ian is a racist, and that he’s just been extremely foolish. Some acknowledge that what he’s said is terrible, but even they refuse to totally condemn him for it. That would be fair enough, except that it’s the exact same people who throw around accusations of various -isms at the host of this very site, and who would absolutely pummel into submission (metaphorically, of course) any fellow indy supporter that they didn’t know personally who tweeted something similar.
     
    There are so many double standards about the debate just now, and it’s really quite ugly. It’s one thing for those of us who are unequivocally on one side or the other to ignore it when people on our own side hurl nasty comments at the opposition; but it simply isn’t acceptable for the media and commentators purporting to support a better standard of debate to condemn some people for dragging things down a bit, while covering their eyes when folk from the other side do it. It’s dishonest, and it just exacerbates the problem, as those being condemned go on the defensive, and those getting away with it feel they have carte blanche to say more outrageous things, and do just that – as has happened tonight due to Ian’s previous indiscretions not getting in the way of his appearances on the BBC.
     
    Those who seek to perform some sort of moderator role in the debate need to either start criticising both sides equally – and not just through token “it’s both sides” comments – or else we can all just accept that the internet is what it is, and that if you don’t like the way debates inevitably pan out online, you should probably go and read a book or something.

  77. Weedeochandorris says:

    For sure the labour party are definately just trying to stir trouble.   They are trying to get anyone to react, in any way possible to their nasty tactics – to get everything to descend into chaos.  I think its utter desperation because they know they’re done for. They definately want everything to get dragged down into the gutter, they want just one person to do or say something they can pounce on and the whole country could erupt.  Thats really what they want.   I dont know that there’s anything else we can do at this point in time because there isnt any help coming from anywhere else re getting the truth out there. Reminds me of a marraige where there’s one partner who wants to fight all the time and the other partner gives them the silent treatment.  Which one gets in a lather?

  78. clochoderic says:

    I  agree the involvement of Jack McConnel into this stushie really leaves the media with no option but to report it.
     Meanwhile they are not very pleased about this over on labour for indy and have started digging up some other wee nuggets of wisdom from mister Smart …

  79. The Man in the Jar says:

    I don’t use Twitter I only link to it from Wings now and again so perhaps I have a one sided view but I do think it should be renamed Twatter.
    But hey ho, if it is a place where liars and bigots expose themselves for what they are then fair enough.

  80. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    CalmanGate and McConnellGate
    In a strange twist, an under pressure Jack McConnell makes a rooky error by adopting the Calman Gambit.

    @tommy_ball I never even saw Iain’s first comments. Just wish the cybernats would get a life.— Jack McConnell(@LordMcConnell) May 5, 2013

    Calman Gambit: An act or remark that is calculated to gain an advantage, especially at the outset of a situation, and
    which also contains a denial of responsibility clause in case the tactic all goes pear shaped.

  81. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @YesYesYes
    Enoch Smart!  Brilliantl

  82. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Adrian B says:
     
    6 May, 2013 at 1:16 am
    Does anyone else get the feeling that the Labour Party in Scotland are attempting to engender Racist/Sectarian trouble?
    *****************************
    There has been a systematic ratcheting up of Sectarian issues since the election of the SNP in 2011, and strongly fueled by the media. Remember the death threats aimed at Paul McBride, for example.
    Now UKplc has always adopted a “divide and conquer” policy when its back is against the wall, so one need probably need look no further than the agents of the UK state; Whitehall and those lovely people who work in MI5/6. Labour of course are probably just willing accomplices.

  83. john king says:

    “David Berry, a former leader of East Lothian Council and a Holyrood election candidate, claimed Scots were like England’s slaves who referred to their masters as “Massah”.”
    Never seen this before,
    so the mind police are now telling us what to think?
    to call this racist is stupid, this is a state of mind not a racist stance, and personally I agree with him the Westminster establishment see us as a vassal state and only here to do their bidding,
    only yesterday I castigated Ant and Dec for their puerile attempt at humour when they were in Glasgow pushing every anti Scots joke you could think of and the fact they come from Newcastle means they don’t have an excuse, just “little dancing ni**ers for the white masters down south” how sad  

  84. john king says:

    I think were all so busy being blinded by the glare from this clowns headlights with his racist post that we are ignoring the indicators signalling right,
     the main thrust of this idiots point is he sees a better Scotland with 100 years of Tory rule rather than independence,
    so so  sad for you man that you think the tories are better for Scotland than running our own country,
    and shows what little faith he has in his own party that he feels they couldn’t gain power after independence  and make a decent fist of running our own country,
    this should be trundled out every year for ever more just to remind people that we don’t need enemies without when we have such dreadful enemies within.
     
    if their is any justice this will end whatever disreputable career this creature has 

  85. Patrick Roden says:

    Mr Smart is a vile individual, who is a valued high ranking activist of the Labour Party in Scotland and gets regular invites on to the BBC.
     
    This tells us all we need to know about the heartbeat of unionism.
     
    http://tommyballgovan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/a-new-horrible-low-for-labour-in.html?m=1

  86. Patrick Roden says:

    The Calman Gambit :-)

  87. john king says:

    “You’ll have to excuse me…cybernat business calls…I’m off to the nearest Maternity Unit to chuck some premature babies out of their incubators.”
     
    I know it was irony Ian but not funny my freind

  88. Macart says:

    Well there we have a prime example of xenophobic bigotry on social media and who knew but that it would appear just where it did?
     
    Look forward to mass media outrage over an entire week of broadcast and print…… oh wait.

  89. john king says:

    Isn’t there some law that says 
    the more marginal and unelectable a party is the more extreme are their comments as they will never have to answer for them when in government?
    could notsosmart have just given us a look into the future of the libdums as well?
     

  90. john king says:

    Weedeochandorris says:
    6 May, 2013 at 2:49 am

    “For sure the labour party are definately just trying to stir trouble.   They are trying to get anyone to react,”
    as the good colonel would say BANG ON

  91. Craig P says:

    Ron – Jack McConnell is looking for evidence that cybernats condemn anti English comments? 
     
    Let it be on record that I was disappointed in you, Jack, with your ‘anyone but England’ approach to the world cup when First Minister. 
     

  92. Davy says:

    It looks like “Smart & McConnell” are trying a bit of attention seeking, but using bigoted & racist comments to do it has definately backfired on them.
    Its the “Better a 100 years of the tories” that really shows the proper mind set of a fullout labour activist in Scotland, imagine wanting an opposition political party which is unelectable in Scotland to be in control of Scotland.
    What does this say about LABOUR !! are they really that anti-scottish if they cant get their own way. It appears so.
     
    Vote YES, VOTE for Scotland.
    Alba Gu Brath.  

  93. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @john king-
    6 May, 2013 at 6:56 am

     
    ‘“You’ll have to excuse me…cybernat business calls…I’m off to the nearest Maternity Unit to chuck some premature babies out of their incubators.”
     I know it was irony Ian but not funny my freind’
     
    Yeah, you’re right. Ain’t funny at all:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

  94. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Is this the start of the Slab showing their massas down sarf that they can do racism too, just like the BNP.
     
    Labour follow the Tories in a lurch to the right.
     
    Anyone got a Rizla?

  95. naebd says:

     Smart was using the term to put words in the mouths of the racist Scots who would be doing the scapegoating post independence. His argument is that colonialism (in the sense of being ruled from elsewhere by your betters) is a good thing in that it results in better governance.
    I think that reflects more badly on him than using Paki for shock value. Guy’s beyond saving IMO.

  96. Silverytay says:

    While I agree with others on here that labour are now trying to stir up sectarianism and racial hatred ‘ my own personal believe is that it will bounce back and bite them on the bum big time .
    They might have got away with these tactics in the 70s where the media protected their backs but with the advent of the internet and sites like wings there is now no hiding place for them .
    As others more eloquent than I have stated ‘ the blitz that we have experienced over the last few weeks is all about trying to demonise the dreaded cybernat and silence pro independent sites like national collective and wings .
    The media will bury the ian smart story as usual but the big difference this time is that the story is already out amongst the Asian & Polish communities .
    The end result of this will be that ian smart has lost the labour party in Scotland an awful lot of votes from the Polish and Asian communities and that can only be good for us .

  97. annie says:

    I think Jack McConnell and Ian Smart are friends – Smart acted on McConnell’s behalf when he tried to prevent an elderly lady neighbour using a coal shed or similar which she had used for many years by claiming it belonged to him – I believe the decision went in favour of elderly neighbour.

  98. naebd says:

    Silverytay, I think it’s insulting and racist to assume that  the Asian And Polish Communities are stupid enough to think his tweet was racist against them. He was saying Scots are incapable of self government without descending into racism and so should be deprived of democratic government for a century. To try and spin the tweet into a race card against labour, amongst “Communities” is low.

  99. Albalha says:

    Another day another twatter fuelled story. Personally I think it’s, a largely, puerile forum. However it seems that the term ‘CyberNat’ is increasingly bandied about as an inclusive term for anyone who supports independence and who comments on blogs/MSM/FB/Twatter – regardless of what they say or have said.
    I comment here and there are times I don’t like what I read ATL and BTL, or agree with some of the images used etc, but hey we’re not all the same, however it seems there is an attempt to paint us as a homogeneous group of knuckle dragging neanderthals.
    So I have a suggestion. Let’s have a ‘CyberNat’ conference/meeting/march. Come out from behind our keyboards and show the world we’re just a diverse bunch of people who agree on at least one thing, I’m sure in some cases the only thing.
    Proud to be a CyberNat type thing. Cos really another 500 days of this bollocks fills me with dread.
    And on the other side I dread more of the S Noon lecturing type articles telling folks how to behave. See NC.  I want to live in a grown up Scotland where honest, healthy debate is embraced and encouraged.
     
     
     

  100. Patrick Roden says:

    Sorta OT.
    just done a survey for the BBC Sports Scotland web page.
     One of the questions asked was if I felt that the site ‘reflected British culture’ ! eh?
     
    Is this an admission that the BBC think it is important for all branches to reflect British culture?
     
    I told them that the BBC are untrustworthy as a result of the disgraceful way they are covering the independence debate.
     
    Get yourself onto BBC sports online and go to Scotland, I’m sure you will be offered the same survey.
     

  101. Macart says:

    @Silverytay
     
    Couldn’t agree more. Social media and the internet is open to all and people can see the truth of a thing for themselves. Who are the worst offenders and who presents their case with more fact and honest conviction. Also agree with your point about losing votes. Thanks to re tweeting (can’t get used to that), the evidence of a serial offender will do the rounds rather quickly. Wonder how Anas Sarwar gets on with support like that? Or does he even care? Anyhoo I think we can say the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
     
    There are berserker loons on both sides of the debate, but I’m fully aware who seems to actively stir up and attract a particular element. The Rev had an excellent piece last year on the Olympic closing ceremony which contained a huge list of unionist and BT well wisher comments as I recall. Evidence, proof – On the internet ye cannae beat it.

  102. Patrick Roden says:

    Jack McConnell tweeted that the response to Ian Smart from ‘cybernats’ were predictable.
     
    If you state that a response is ‘predictable’ surely you would need to know what the response is aimed at, to come to this conculsion?
     
    Me thinks Jack is backtracking because he now sees the political damage that this can bring to Labour.
     
    Nothing to do with the disgusting contents of Smarts tweets, Just political expediency.
     
    Labour members must be very proud, or very angry!

  103. Patrick Roden says:

    Oh and a very encouraging poll has shown that the majority of people in Scotland do not believe that the unionists will deliver more powers for Scotland in the event of a ‘No’ vote.
     
    Very significant.

  104. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Albalha-
     
    Yes, we’re being tarred with the same proverbial, and the default image of ‘cybernats’ is as you described. It’s deliberate. 
     
    I know it’s just not possible for all contributors to use their real names, but as many as possible should try to do so – it instantly removes a major plank of the Cochers argument, and also gives us some cohesion as/when we want to respond via mainstream to the smears against us…group signing of letters to editor, that type of thing.

  105. ecossenkosi says:

    Well I am certainly one Scot that is not racist, I married an African. She is the most lovely person you could ever hope to meet, well yes OK I am biased but so what.

  106. ecossenkosi says:

    Should we bother to ask Johann, probably a waste of time I guess.

  107. scottish_skier says:

    @Patrick. Oh and a very encouraging poll has shown that the majority of people in Scotland do not believe that the unionists will deliver more powers for Scotland in the event of a ‘No’ vote.
    Now that is interesting, can you direct me to the source? Thanks. 

  108. Gordon Bain says:

    Sorry for going slightly o/t but Call Kaye is “debating” UKIP in Scotland this morning. Divide & Conquer: Stage 2.
    Saor Alba!

  109. Quinie frae Angus says:

    I think Albalha has the right idea. Some sort of “coming out” event for the Cybernats. I am fed up with the term being used as a blanket label for “perpetrators of online racist abuse” when in fact the vast majority of us are thinking, sensible beings with a diversity of backgrounds and perspectives, just with one common cause. The computer and keyboards have been our ONLY vehicles for discussion because of….the blanket pro-unionist propaganda machine that is the mainstream media!   So we can hardly be blamed for taking up the only true means open to us!
     
    I too smell desperation and fear among the usual suspects, particularly the bitter Labour hacks who fear their long-held paths of certain personal advancement will be stymied by independence.  
     
    We need to reclaim the term “cybernat”. I have not read S Noon’s blog yet but will do so now.

  110. Doug Daniel says:

    Ian – using our real names doesn’t make things any better unfortunately. I regularly see Stu getting accused of being “anonymous” – despite putting his name to everything he writes!
     
    Although I have always felt that using your real name tends to be good for exercising self-restraint. If you say something that goes too far under a “pen name”, you can just ditch it and carry on under a new pseudonym. No such luck if you’re using your real name, so you’re inclined to be a bit more careful about what you type!
     
    (That may or may not be the voice of experience speaking there…)

  111. Macart says:

    @Skier
     
    My keyboard needs a clean for going there, but here you go skier.
     
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-scots-wary-of-more-powers-promise-1-2921008

  112. Silverytay says:

    naebd   I am sorry you feel I was trying to use the race card against labour but the word ian smart used is racist and I am sure that the Asian community will not be impressed with ian smart using it that way .

  113. Doug Daniel says:

    NEWSFLASH: HERALD SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR UNABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHARITY AND POLITICAL CAMPAIGN!
     
    http://scottishpol.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/charities-good-better-together-bad.html
     
    What an utter cock. I try to give this man the benefit of the doubt sometimes, but this is just mud-flinging, pure and simple.

  114. Brian Ritchie says:

    S_S
    The poll’s reported in the Scotsman.
     
    According to a YouGov poll, only a third of respondents, 33 per cent, believed the main pro-UK parties would increase the Scottish Parliament’s powers while almost half, 47 per cent, were not convinced.

     
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-scots-wary-of-more-powers-promise-1-2921008

    EDIT: Ah, Macart got there first! :)

    Who are this 33% who are so gullible to believe??

  115. scottish_skier says:

    Thanks Macart.

    Yougov, so expect that those thinking more powers will come is lower than that and  vice versa.

    the 3/10 that do will be your status quoers.

  116. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Doug Daniel-
     
    Know where you’re coming from Doug, but I don’t believe the difference is much more than cosmetic.
     
    Let’s face it – we’re sticking our heads above a public parapet of sorts, but using a handle provides nothing more than an illusion of anonymity. It’s that illusion which is being exploited by the likes of Cochrane.
     
    I’m not suggesting that everyone should use their real name – that’s not practical or sensible for some folk – but we shouldn’t expect interested Intelligence Services to pay any less attention to those who have pseudonyms. (I’m sure that establishing the real identity of this or that commenter would be nothing more than a minor chore.) 
     
    In thirty years we’ll find out what the code-name is for the effort to counter Scottish independence. It’ll have some obtuse historical reference, or perhaps be mildly offensive/patronising. Whatever it’s called, we shouldn’t doubt for a moment that it’s real and will be ongoing for a long time, even after a Yes vote.
     
    Anyone pro-Indy who is serious about getting involved in this debate and doesn’t want to go insane in the process should familiarise themselves with basic psy-ops, covert operations etc.
     
    It’s no game, and we’re up against experienced professionals with very deep pockets.
     
     

  117. Brian Ritchie says:

    Also on Taylor’s donation:

    Again Yougov – this time from the Herald.

    “Do you believe that the No campaign should or should not return this donation?”
    Of those polled, 43% said that Better Together should hand the money back, 34% said that they should not and 23% said they did not know.
    Among those who did have an opinion 56% backed the donation being returned while 44% supported keeping it.”

  118. Macart says:

    @Skier
     
    Whilst Yougov isn’t everyone’s fav polling body, I don’t think the results would differ were it IPSOS. The message is getting out there. Vote NO get nothing.

  119. scottish_skier says:

    So 3/10 think the dodgy money is ok = status quoers.

  120. Patrick Roden says:

    The significance of these polls, is that people are being asked what they think about some of the main issues in the referendum debate, rather than how they would ‘vote tomorow’ as is the usual question asked by polling agencies.
     
    It seems that a lot of people are responding along party lines, so belief that BT will deliver more powers or Ian Taylors donation being ok.
     
    The important thing though, is the percentage of people that responded that they do not agree that BT will deliver or that Ian taylors donation is exceptable.
     
    All that needs to happen is for these views to become votes for Yes and we are home and dry.
     
    No wonder the BT mob and their media lackeys, have been trying so hard to get us nationalists to be discontented with the Yes/SNP approach to the campaign. 

  121. Erchie says:

    the argument that he was using a short form of “Pakistani” because of Twitter limitations seems unlikely.
     
    Pakistani would have fitted easily if he had dropped the four characters of “the ” before Poles and the word he did use
     

  122. Albalha says:

    @ianbrotherhood
    I’ve often used my full name on here, the Albalha is just a shortened version, and on this site a good percentage of people either use their name or share a good deal about themselves.
    Even if everyone did use their own name the ‘cybernat’ smearing wouldn’t stop, I just think we need to take control of it beyond the internet. We’re a truly diverse bunch on here, a range of political/social beliefs, all ages, locations, home and abroad, and a veritable kaleidoscope of working experience.
    Strength in depth ‘n all that.
    @quiniefraeangus
    I would be interested in your thoughts on the Noon article I think you’ve been around the debate longer than I have and may be more familiar with the players.
    Happy Bank Holiday, Alison Balharry
     

  123. Dcanmore says:

    The loons are taking over the asylum. What Better Together have left is shouting and screaming, they are losing arguments almost on a weekly basis until there is only fear itself. And the people left perpetuating nothing but fear and smear are driven loons like Mr Smart. The 100 years Tory rule comment from this Labour activist is exactly the mindset of these hardcore supporters of the Union have in Scotland. This self loathing, hateful attitude towards anyone in power that is not them would happily see Scotland asset stripped and turned to dust so Smart and his fellow apparatchniks can drive their corrosive hate into the electorate… Vote Labour because you hate the Tories. Now it’s vote Labour because you hate the SNP. But this time it’s not working, 2007 and 2011 were earth-shattering moments for Labour in Scotland because the people of Scotland themselves said enough is enough. Labour haven’t recovered and they are in decline helped by the fact that they haven’t recovered in England either as they are losing their voice because of politics moving further to the Right in the SE and that is the ground the Milibot drone has to make up.
     
    Labour in Scotland are in a very difficult place right now and they don’t have the talent to get out of it. I believe there is a large percentage of Scottish Labour voters now backing Independence because they are not like Smart or Darling or those in the Houses of Parliament. They are Labour voters who see on a daily basis how London rule has failed them and how they are sick of the constant cycle of poverty. Imagine in a room of 300 Labour voters from the East Glasgow listening to an Ian Smart speech which contained ‘better having 100 years of Tory rule than Independence’ line … they would walk out in disgust. What I see now is BT being reduced to faux storytelling to get an anti-Indy story out. It has happened with Calman. Someone tells someone mildly famous that there has been a death threat made against them. Famous person reacts and ramps up the publicity behind it. Virulent unionist newspaper picks up the story (rather quickly) then publishes death threat as fact along with added anti-independence rhetoric. BBC picks up the story from ultra-unionist newspaper (rather quickly) and reports it as fact with bells and whistles because it came from a reputable newspaper source (so we are meant to believe), all packaged up as a ‘bad week for the SNP’. Meanwhile nobody in the MSM asks whether the death threat was actually real (because it would work against said anti-indy rhetoric).
     
    This is what Better Together and the likes of Ian Smart calls ‘job done’. It is utterly corrupt, morally bankrupt, wrong and ultimately self defeating while deluding themselves that they are going to win every election and referendum for over the next five years!

  124. Macart says:

    @Skier
     
    Yep, I’d say your hard line union, status quo type would have no problem whatsoever with the source of their campaign’s funding.

  125. Laura says:

    Question: When Scotland votes for independence will Lord McConnell and other ‘Scottish’ Lords lose their titles?

  126. Derick says:

    Slaves lose everything in their chains, even the desire of escaping from them – Jean Jaques Rousseau, The Social Contract, 1762
    “Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
    presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
    evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
    extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
    is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
    ignore and even deny anything that doesn’t fit in with the core belief.” Fanon
    Drunk men should keep away from computers, Derick Tulloch, 2013
    It’s interesting how many Scottish Brit Nats take to the drink, and how angry they are (at themselves in the end). 

  127. Albalha says:

    @Laura
    This article may help, though answer not, as you’d imagine straightforward.
     
    http://nottspolitics.org/2013/03/06/what-will-become-of-the-may-2015-uk-parliament-if-scotland-votes-yes-on-independence/
     

  128. Macart says:

    @Dcanmore
     
    That pretty much sums it up. Good post.
     
    Let’s be in doubt here. Without the heavily unionist press and broadcast media, Better Together and Westminster would have been left behind in an independent wake long since. They and they alone are the only reason the opposition are still in the game at all and it must hurt that they know this. They lost the argument against independence long since, they certainly have no way of combatting either the principle or the concept other than by outright lies, misrepresentation and smear.
     
    This approach WILL come back to haunt them.

  129. alexicon says:

    Laura says:
    6 May, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Question: When Scotland votes for independence will Lord McConnell and other ‘Scottish’ Lords lose their titles?
     
    Don’t know. Maybe they’ll need to renegotiate like Scotland has to do on the EU & NATO.

  130. Ian Grant says:

    What is the point of all this useless gossip on this subject. I agree that at least as much abuse (and probably much more) comes  from the other side, and that the MSM completely ignores cyberbrittery, an example being Kirsty Scott yesterday. However, getting as wound up as some of us are getting does no good at all, indeed it is entirely what the cyberbrits and the media are trying to achieve. By all means, someone keep a comprehensive record of all cases eg the Ian Smart abuses, but otherwise stop talking about it and get out and campaign positively for independence.

  131. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Albalha-
     
    Happy holiday to you too Alison.
     
    The more of us using our real names, the greater the likelihood that ‘professionals’ from other fields will chip-in. The whole culture of peer-review is deeply ingrained in academics (for example) and the credibilty of discussion can only be enhanced when intelligent, thoughtful contributions are made by people prepared to identify themselves.
     
    A great bugbear for me is the absence of certain media ‘experts’ from this debate – they must have good reasons for not participating, but the Catch-22 is that whatever contributions they make are likely to be anonymised. We have to ask why they’re so reluctant to take part when it’s so obvious that we (as genuine samizdat) need every bit of help we can get to counter the powerful MSM voices trying to shout us down.
     
    A climate of fear is being manufactured, and we’re being set-up as the scapegoat.
     
    Any academic who’s ever delivered a lecture about ‘free speech’, ‘inalienable rights’ or ‘learning the lessons of history’ now has the perfect opportunity to practise what they’ve been preaching.

  132. Baheid says:

    George is up and at it already
     
    https://twitter.com/GeorgeFoulkes
     

  133. HandandShrimp says:

    I see George Foulkes doesn’t like Derek Bateman
     
    …..presumably because he doesn’t take his script from the local Labour Party Pacific Quay minder. I think Bateman is pretty neutral and has a go at both sides. George obviously doesn’t like dissent.

  134. Craig P says:

    Pfft. Tweeting: a medical procedure to suck all common sense out a person’s brain, leaving behind just 140 characters. 

  135. Albalha says:

    @ianb
    Self interest comes into this, which, in my opinion, is why so many of the ubiquitous commentariat are visibly fence sitting.
    They may well be biding their time. In terms of academics/thinky tankers, I have heard recently, the chap from Hull, S Lee, who did GMS last Saturday, was interesting perhaps because he’s at a distance. And the chap from the IFS who takes the ‘what is the point of deciding your future, YES/NO next year, on the economics of today when there are many, many years ahead with, undoubtedly, economic ups and downs’.
    Are you thinking of any particular ‘media experts’?
    @iangrant
    I agree with you to a point. How many people are really engaged yet, after all, but the tone is being drip fed daily, are people swallowing it I don’t know.
     
     

  136. thejourneyman says:

    Albalha and Quinie frae Angus

    I like the coming out from behind the keyboards idea. Last night when I saw the Cybernat article come up on NNS with the Cybie character I had this idea that it would make a great T-shirt for an “I’m Cybie” campaign.

    I think it was just the time of day but I had this picture in my mind of a cybernat rally with everyone wearing an I’m Cybie shirt. That was when I decided I should get some sleep.

    On reflection I think printed shirts like this could be a good fund raiser for NNS, lapel badges as well which would be a good and quite funny way for us to recognise fellow Cybies.

    OK I’ll stop now.

  137. Albalha says:

    @thejourneyman
    Mmm, that’s rather orderly for me, I’m afraid.
    I think it’s about the sheer diversity of the support, including whether or not you fancy wearing a customised t shirt!
     

  138. kininvie says:

    @Ian Grant
     
    Thoroughly agree.  I’m concerned about the degree of groupthink emerging here, particularly the assumpton that the BT argument is lost. That’s not what I’m hearing from doubtful voters – by far and away the commonest reason given for not wanting independence is STILL that Scotland on its own is not economically viable – a point that even BT concedes….
     
    And there would seem to be a fair proportion of people who have yet to wake up to the fact that this is not just another parliamentary election, but a life-changing opportunity. Apathy is meat and drink to BT, and no doubt they are happy to see the whole who-insulted-whom-and-where circus in full swing, because it alienates voters, trivialises the issue, leads to a low turnout, and reduces the whole campaign for Scotland’s future to a series of storms in teacups.
     
    If that makes me a WetNat, so be it.

  139. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Quinie frae Angus
    At 8:57am
    I posted a similar comment to yours yesterday.
    Most will have read this already but for anyone that hasn’t here is a link to the excellent and very funny “The A to Z of Independence – Sorting myth from fact” from Newsnetscotland. I have found that it is a very good article to forward on to the less informed as it makes for light reading and a bit of a laugh. Scroll down to Cybernats!
    I’m a cybernat and so is ma dug!
    http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation#cybernats

  140. Robert Bryce says:

    I for one have no issue posting under my real name. I already do on Twitter and have since day 1. I shall no longer use the pseudonym “rabb”.
     
    As for Smart’s comments last night………………….
     
    I suspect Mr Smart’s reasoning on all Scots turning into racists is perhaps founded around his own social group? It certainly cannot be applied to mine.

    Sadly this will NOT be run with any vigour (if at all) by the MSM. Mr Smart and his Better Together bedfellows have a free run in the press and will continue to do so right up until the polls close on Sep 18th 2014.

    London is now very much engaged in “self preservation mode”. Expect this to be ramped up as support for the union continues to fall.
     
    It’s up to us all to ensure the truth is available to the rest of the Scottish public. Sites like this will win out in the end. Get out there and put the message accross.
    Drive your friends, family & work colleagues to sites like Wings. I’m sure their eyes will be opened.
     
    Keep the faith!

  141. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Albalha-
     
    Are you thinking of any particular ‘media experts’?’
     
    Yes, I am – I’ve referred to them in previous threads but don’t want to start looking like some kind of stalker. They’re Scottish or Scotland-based, know the media inside-out, and have appeared via MSM many times, speaking on all sorts of subjects, from Leveson, electoral fraud, Hutton, the miners’ strike, Palestine, you-name-it.
     
    Now, when we have a real media war on our hands, it’s as if they don’t exist. The  closest I’ve heard to objective analysis (via the BBC at any rate) has come from Stuart Cosgrove, and although he’s an academic in his own right he’s not perceived as such by the masses.
     
    If this current demonisation of pro-Indy social media continues, it seems ever less likely that we’ll get the benefit of their expertise. That should worry anyone – on either ‘side’ or none – who really wants a substantial debate.

  142. HandandShrimp says:

    Kininvie
     
    Yes, ultimately it will be the economy that is the most important factor. Over the next 500 days the argument must focus on the fact that an independent Scotland will be a viable, fairer and more resilient economy than what we have at the moment. The “look a squirrel” approach of BT can’t be totally ignored but it can’t be allowed to dominate either.
     
    However, Alexander made a speech calling for the Twitterati to calm down…within hours one of the more senior BT lot has a mad turn. Call it schadenfreude but it was inevitable it was going to get a bit of attention.

  143. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “If that makes me a WetNat, so be it.”

    That’s not what a WetNat is, no.

  144. Macart says:

    The cybie idea has legs up to a point. The BT leadership would love to pigeonhole everyone who backs independence as ‘nats’, makes it easier for them to tar the entire movement with the same brush. But of course your Labour, Liberal, Green or SSP for independence aren’t ‘nats’, nor should they be, they’re independence supporters. I’m a nat though and wouldn’t mind a cybie pin, take Foulkes own poisonous, socially divisive words and turn them into something else. 

  145. YesYesYes says:

    Those who are defending Ian Smart need to remember that one of the criteria for judging whether someone is racist is whether they use racist language. If this is the kind of language that someone uses in a public forum like Twitter, then it’s probably better that we don’t speculate about what his private thoughts are.
     
    Not all racists are knuckle-dragging neanderthals with swastikas tattooed on their necks. Some are ‘respectable’ members of our communities who, usually, make a good job of hiding their true beliefs. As has been pointed out before, those who are defending Ian Smart, particularly the ‘wetnats’, are the same people who would be orchestrating a moral panic if this tweet had come from a ‘cybernat’ or, even worse, an SNP luminary . They’d be demanding that Alex Salmond expel him from the SNP, that he ‘gets a grip’ on cybernats, and the Scotsman would run stories about it for a week.
     
    For years, Scottish Labour has reacted angrily to the accusations from a small number of ‘cybernats’ that Labour is ‘anti-Scottish’. Those who make such accusations have all the ammunition that they need from Smart’s tweet.
     
    Meanwhile, news just in. The leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage, has just held a news conference. Speaking to a large group of reporters assembled outside the Albert pub (the favourite watering-hole of MP’s), Farage, supping a pint of bitter and puffing on a Silk Cut, stated: ‘I can confirm that Enoch Smart has applied to join UKIP. As you know, UKIP is an inclusive party, open to fruitcakes of every political persuasion. We’ve always prided ourselves on that. Enoch is a lovely guy. The kind of guy you can imagine yourself having a pint with, as I have. Regrettably though, we had to reject Enoch’s application to join UKIP. We may be fruitcakes but we’re not racists’. Reporters then turned to former Labour MP Eric Joyce, who told them, ‘Like Enoch, I too have been the victim of vicious cybernat bullying so I understand what Enoch is going through just now. And like Enoch, I didn’t do anything wrong either. Alex Salmond needs to get a grip on this, and quick, before this escalates into physical violence’.

  146. HandandShrimp says:

    YesYesYes
     
    Now that is satire
     
    Susan I hope you are taking notes.

  147. Marian says:

    The britnats must be loving it when they glance at the comments here which are full of angst and anger about the playing field not being level RATHER THAN being full of the vast amount of positive reasons as to why independence would be better for Scots than continuing to have to live under Westminster rule.
    By all means highlight the unfairness of it when these things happen but cybernats need to get over it not being a level playing field for it never ever will be anything but biased when you have the full weight of the British political establishment behind it for they have everything to lose and more if Scotland becomes independent.
    The Scots voters are only mildly interested in the fairness and bias issues at present but are very much interested in knowing what independence will mean for them and it is explaing that and persuading them to vote YES that must be the total focus of cybernat attention.

  148. Brian Hunter says:

    This is his latest:

    Lots of WE ARE NOT RACISTS tweets from the cybernats tonight. Also lots of WE ARE NOT RACISTS tweets from the KKK in Alabama. LoL

    The guy is pretty awful.

  149. MJB says:

    I prefer the Tartan Army approach to things,a reasonably disorganised bunch with a common aim that eventually meets up where they`re meant to be in support of one cause,various route maps are used and many vehicles driven but the destination is very nearly always achieved. They are not all angels,but folk realise there`s a minority in all followings,i don`t judge the majority on the basis of the few.
    Politically i think the same,i read pleas for good behaviour from hi heid yins and i think hey,this is my future,my debate,no one is telling me what to do,if i want to react in my own way to hypocrisy then i`ll do it,the debate police are already paid for by unionist dodgy donations,i understand there are parameters but not everyone does, and if a lead is to be taken from unionists how the hell are you meant to know where the bar is?

  150. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The Scots voters are only mildly interested in the fairness and bias issues at present but are very much interested in knowing what independence will mean for them and it is explaing that and persuading them to vote YES that must be the total focus of cybernat attention.”

    I do have to fight not to get irritated and snappy when people tell me what folk are and aren’t interested in. I think our readership figures and trajectory show that we’re doing something right in terms of the balance of positive and “negative” coverage.

  151. James Morton says:

    I think this year will be the beginning of a series of firsts for me. I once said that UKIP did not have the vote share to make a breakthrough anywhere. Not only did they acheive that, but they so rattled the main parties, that they are now all positioning themselves to the right of UKIP.
    Today my opinion of David Torrance has shifted from a mostly harmless rightwing commentator to that of a rightwing krank who is now now feverishly trying to assert a similarity between the SNP and UKIP.
    My opinion that Ian smart and those like him were knowningly pissing in the well that everyone drinks from to obsure the debate; has now changed to the point were I think the man is mentally disturbed, possibly even insane.
    Just imagine what we’ll learn tomorrow

  152. Gordon Bain says:

    Totally agree Rev. Not everyone who visits this site is a regular and there must be mention of the bias built-in to the British state.

  153. Tris says:

    Any comment from Anas Sarwar yet?

  154. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    The worrying thing is that morons like Smart and McConnell obviously think that trying to frighten ethnic minorities is acceptable. Add to that Smart’s vile racist comments that  slur the Scottish nation as racists.
    If McConnell had any integrity he would have criticised Smart’s tweet. He didn’t because Smart’s tweet is just another  scaremongering story as far as they’re concerned. They have abandoned any pretence of entering into any honest constructive discussions. I firmly believe that Better Together have already lost. The polls will take time to turn around, but the two recent ones concerning the publics disbelief regarding more devolution and the desire for the two governments to enter negotiations now are very revealing.   
     

  155. BillyBigbaws says:

    Great point above by Craig P.
     
    It is extremely galling to be accused of anti-Englishness (without any evidence provided) by Jack “Anyone But England” McConnell.  He was an embarassment to us all then, and has not changed since.  Google the words ‘Jack McConnell Anyone But…’ and look at the automatic result that is filled in for you by the wise code of the search engine.  The internet does not forget these things, even if the Labour Party and the Scottish media does.

    Also worth remembering that Ian Smart is a self-confessed admirer of Karl Rove – George Bush’s expert in negative campaiging, smearing, and media-assisted deceit.  It’s on his blog.  Won’t link to it, as that is no doubt what he wants folk to do.

  156. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Rev re readership –
     
    Can’t help wondering how many folk follow WoS, read these threads closely, and have valuable insight to offer but daren’t contribute for whatever reason.
     
    Having worked with folk who are more or less illiterate, and others who have a genuine fear of committing their thoughts to print of any kind, I know how serious a problem it is for many.
     
    (I know how frustrating and debilitating it can be, but that doesn’t mean you’re not important in the debate.
     
    Even posting ! or * would indicate your presence, and it’d be worth it if for no other reason than to find what avatar you end up with!)

  157. Stevie says:

    My, there are a lot of comments, in any case I’ll add mine.  It’s somewhat unpleasant in the 21st century to see a professional politician referring to Pakistanis as ‘Pakis’.  In the 1960s people referred to Pakistanis as ‘Pakis’ but at that time there wasn’t the kind of racist undertones which exist now. 

    Smart (ironic surname) should be more careful about using such terms – had a ScotNat used this term (I don’t believe they would), it would have made the press and that would just be some online eejit saying something daft – that ScotNat would unfortunately find that all the other ScotNats would descend like a tonne of bricks on such terms.

    I don’t believe, or imagine that it would occur to ScotNats to even think in such terms and I suspect they were somewhat shocked at seeing it – especially from a Labour person who would no doubt say he was an internationalist. 

    As Dennis Canavan recently said, ‘How can you love other peoples in other countries if you don’t even love your own enough to want your own country?’.  This Ian Smart fellow clearly doesn’t love his own people viewing his Labour induced fantasy that we’ll all become rabid fascist racists as soon as the weather turns a bit cloudy – this is a deep insult.  How dare he. 
    Of all the peoples on this planet, the Scots have travelled and integrated with more nations around the world than any other.  We are egalitarian, inclusive and open to new cultures and ideas.  We are the last bastion of a generalised desire for social democracy on these islands and the likes of the BNP and their close cousins UKIP are unwanted in this part of the world.

    As was stated in the article, his blind hatred of the SNP may have coloured his view of his countryfolk – that said, the red Tories are as close to the blue Tories as you can get without actually amalgamating officially, so this is perhaps how he thinks.  He may imagine that we’re all as right-wing as Labour but we’re most certainly not.

    Will he apologise voluntarily?  No, that would require grace.  Will Labour ask him to apologise without pressure?  No, that would require decency.  Since the blue Tories are completely toxic, the red Tories are now Scotland’s nasty party  In Scotland’s case, Labour/Conservatives see the ‘something for nothings’ as the enemy and universalism is in the bin (Ed Miliband is on and off that universal boat depending upon the interview on TV).

    Labour has become Scotland’s nasty party.

  158. Stakhanovite says:

    Martyn
    yes indeed, the very same Ian Smart

  159. EdinScot says:

    And that will be why in a straight shoot out for First Minister, that Alec Salmond was declared leader elect and McConnell and his party of charlatans were kicked out as the ‘Executive’.  McConnell is bitter because he is yesterdays man thrown out by a Scottish electorate.  Despite pretending to be an English Lord with his ermine robe on, his rants in support of the deluded Mr Smart show his judgement to be seriously skewed hence the Scottish voters were not only right but astute enough to make the judgement they did back in 2007.  Jack probably thought he was a shoe in for FM as he even had the whole of the print and broadcast media supporting him!  Imagine his embarrassment at that result and the anger we are now witnessing from him and the rest of Slab.  It kind of makes sense. 
     
    He has it all what with the Lordships, the salary and gold plated pensions and of course the life of a Lord and yet he lowers himself to engage more like a deranged drunk than that of a fomer FM let alone a Lord on twitter.  What sad men they make.  Now there is further trouble on the horizon.  Their gravy train could very well be hitting the buffers on September 19th 2014 courtesy of the Scottish electorate once again.  Hence the bile spewing out their mouths.  And who would bet against Scotland kicking them out one final time and making them history, after all, its only being going in one direction ever since. 

  160. Tattie-boggle says:

    Ian Smart getting a grilling right now on Twitter from an Asian Lady of Pakistani origin born in England living in Scotland and voting Yes

  161. Davy says:

    “Laura”, regarding the so-called scottish lords losing their titles, they can still call themselves whatever they want, as long as we dont have to pay for them or listen to them and certainly never allow them anywhere near our government, who cares.
    They are a complete waste of time to Scotland and any democratically elected society bar one.
    Oops, is this me being racist against the ‘House of lords’.

  162. Mac says:

     
    Is Ian Smart being openly racist?
     
    Tory Councillor John Cherry was forced to resign from the party last month after suggesting that Pakistani students attending a new boarding school planned for his village of Stedham in the south of England would fail to “rise to the top” .
     
    Mr Cherry was quoted as saying, “Ninety-seven per cent of pupils will be black or Asian. It depends what type of Asian. If they’re Chinese they’ll rise to the top. If they’re Indian they’ll rise to the top. If they’re Pakistani they won’t,”
     
    In response Labour party shadow education secretary, Stephen Twigg MP, labelled Cherry’s comments as “openly racist”.

  163. YesYesYes says:

    Never mind Enoch Smart’s rant about racism in an independent Scotland, the scenario he depicts already exists in England, as this press release from The Institute of Race Relations (April 18th, 2013) suggests:
     
    http://www.irr.org.uk/news/racial-violence-since-the-death-of-stephen-lawrence/
     
    The report concludes that the latest crime survey for England and Wales recorded racist attacks running at the rate of 130,000 a year, (that’s 356 every day, or one racist attack every four minutes in England and Wales).
     
    Given that England and Wales/rUK will soon be an independent country itself, wouldn’t Enoch be better occupied addressing the racism that actually exists in rUK today, rather than speculate about the possibility of widespread racism that he imagines might occur in Scotland at some point in the distant future? More to the point, if Enoch really is so concerned about the rise of racism, shouldn’t he be campaigning for Scottish independence, to help ensure that the rampant racism that currently exists in the rUK doesn’t spread to Scotland?   

  164. Ted says:

    Blatant use of racist and other rabble rousing language indicates that the BT supporters are fully aware of and will take advantage the anti-SNP bias in the MSM.  They can say ANYTHING because they know they have a compliant media!  They do not have to consider what they say because they know they WILL NOT be held to account!  The media will be used as a tool to silence the YES camp message and promote BT at any costs!  So the Scottish people must be convinced of the benefits of independence from other sources other than the MSM.  How many people still believe the MSM to be an ethical source of information?  

  165. Patrick Roden says:

    Oh dear, looks like our Mr Smart has a history of a bit of deception.
     
    http://www.bentjudges.com/Iain_Smart.html

  166. Mac says:

     
    When you consider that many Labour voters have voted for both the BNP and UKIP it makes you wonder if the Labour party itself attracts fascists to its ranks. 
     
    In Tower Hamlets last year the local Labour party faced accusations of being institutionally racist after 5 local Labour councillors of Asian origin were expelled from the party.
     
    The Labour party claims it takes all allegations of racism seriously, but the fact that Ian Smart can make what some in his own party would recognise as openly racist comments suggests that the party does not.
     
    Is Scottish Labour institutionally racist? If it does nothing about Ian Smart’s comments then the party opens itself to that accusation.

  167. Patrick Roden says:

    oops sorry John hamill, hadn’t saw your post. ;-)

  168. David Mackenzie says:

    I protest. Susan Calman is close to being a first-rate comedian.
     

  169. Dracul says:

    In once racist Tweet one Twit showed just exactly how they feel about all Scots. Oh yes something got ‘turned on’ alright the Yes Vote!

  170. HandandShrimp says:

    The most fascinating thing is that Smart is saying that his point was that failed independence results in ethnic backlashes and racism such as the US, India, Australia etc.
     
    In short he appear to be advocating a return to Empire when the natives knew their place. Happiness is an Imperial Majesty….or something.
     
    Anyone told Obama that he is heading up a failed separatist state?

  171. Yesitis says:

    No mention of lan Smart or Jack McConnell`s remarks on Lunchtime BBC Scotland news. Didn`t expect there to be.
    Disgusting BBC.

  172. Natubat says:

    I’ve never been impressed by Jack McConnell, but some of the comments he has made on Twitter are astonishing in their immaturity, added to the fact that he weighed into the debate without bothering to check what it was about.
    https://twitter.com/ianssmart/status/331157232135860225
    How can the independence debate have sunk to this level of petty name-calling from those who should be leading the debate? We’re less than 18 months away from one of the most important votes in our lifetimes, and some of the people with political power and influence are focusing their energies on hurling petty insults and scaremongering, conspicuously avoiding discussion on the important questions around independence. Has the Labour Party ever considered its future in an independent Scotland, or does it simply dismiss that possibility? 

  173. Gordon Bain says:

    Due to the bank holiday it’s been a quiet day at work and I find myself perusing the Sun. Specifically one Torcuil Crichton, wherein he refers to “cybernats” as “…petty, brittle, taking offence at imagined slights and spewing hatred of opinions and people they see as bring different from themselves”.
    im going to start building a wall. A really big wall.
    Saor Alba!

  174. Roddy Macdonald says:

    The Declaration of Kilsyth
    For as long as there’s the faintest chance that Labour may return to power in Scotland, we would rather see 100 years of foreign Tory dominion, as it is only the leaden hand of Wasteminster that keeps the feral Scots from beating up their [expletives deleted], ahem,  immigrant communities. For it is not for honour or socialist principles that we fight, but for our personal self-interest alone, and a worthy Labour man would rather give up his life than the chance of an ermine robe or imperial bauble.
    Ian S Smart, Apparatchik-in-Chief and wannabe Lord Smart of Glenfiddich

    Supported by
    Lord McConnell of Glenfarclas
    Lord Foulkes of Glenmorangie
    But questioned by
    Anas Sarwar (Hereditary Labour MP for Govan)
     
     

  175. Albalha says:

    @natubat
    Has the Labour Party ever considered its future in an independent Scotland, or does it simply dismiss that possibility?
    I think for many in Labour they really don’t see/consider their political future in an independent Scotland.
    They have spent so long believing in their own political invincibility it’s a psychological bridge too far.
     

  176. Taranaich says:

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the Labour Party in Scotland are attempting to engender Racist/Sectarian trouble?
     
    Of course they are: Labour MSPs have opposed or criticized anti-sectarianism initiatives for seemingly no good reason than “because the SNP did it”:
     
    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/3713-snp-attack-labours-political-manoeuvering-on-anti-sectarianism-bill.html
     
    http://siobhanmcmahon.org/2013/04/29/deep-conern-over-funding-for-anti-sectarianism-projets/
     
    I’m involved in an anti-sectarian group with a number of people from all walks of faith, and the number of times I’ve seen opposition to the very idea of trying to deal with sectarianism astounds me – and it’s always from Labour-voters. Our organizer is distraught at the idea that McMahon’s “deep concerns” about the funding could mean trouble for the group, which has seen immense success over the past year.
     
    It’s a complete and utter disgrace, a transparent attempt at trying to sow sedition among the Scots, the implication being that without the UK, we’d all fall apart into petty latter-day clan warfare (even though Scotland managed just fine as a unified political entity for centuries). But it won’t work, because when you try to sow divisions on ethnic, cultural on religious grounds by actively highlighting “oh, it’ll never happen, the Scots are too parochial,” then you’re just going to make them unite.
     
    Remember when Mitt Romney criticized the Olympics, how it caused a surge in support and optimism after weeks of cynical indifference? That’ll happen here. The more Labour and company keep casting the Scots as racist bigots, the more Scots will stand beside their fellow Scots regardless of their ethnic background.

  177. Jim Mitchell says:

    @ianbrotherhood, your thinking like me, with the help pf their media friends the Better Together lot will probably try and portray this as one of them just using some more irony and being hounded by those Nasty Nats for it!
    Through the looking glass indeed.
    I wonder how long it will take the main stream media to catch up with  the latest SNP poll which shows that most people polled:
    A) Want the Better Together Campaign to return that dodgy donation.
    B) Most believe that Westminster will not enhance Holyrood with extra powers if a NO vote is returned.
    That second one is very telling to me, given tha tthe people of Scotland have already said they want Holyrood to have more powers and that there is no Devo-Max option..

  178. Morag says:

    Long years ago I expressed my support for independence to an English friend, and got the reply that we’d all start fighting each other if we were independent.  I’d never come across that one before, and wondered if he was talking about sectarian conflict in the west central belt.  However, I just asked him what he meant.

    “The Campbells and the MacDonalds” was the reply.

    This lot is just about as realistic.

  179. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @naebd
    naebd says:
     
    6 May, 2013 at 8:25 am
     
    ************************************
    In relations to your false allegation against Silverytay and his post, it is worth pointing out that the entirely spurious predicate
    you introduce*, namely,
    “the Asian And Polish Communities are stupid enough to think his tweet was racist against them.”
    smells like a word salad.

    * In order to shoot it down; a.k.a. Straw-Man Sophistry.
     

  180. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Long years ago I expressed my support for independence to an English friend, and got the reply that we’d all start fighting each other if we were independent. I’d never come across that one before, and wondered if he was talking about sectarian conflict in the west central belt.”

    I got that exact one, less delicately phrased, from a slightly mental English bloke at poker last night. Luckily he was outnumbered at the table by Scots, Czechs, Rumanians and Spaniards (and a half-German bloke), so it didn’t get unruly :D

  181. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Due to the bank holiday it’s been a quiet day at work and I find myself perusing the Sun. Specifically one Torcuil Crichton”

    Torcuil’s pish today (and every other day) is in the Record. Bank holiday is no excuse for being drunk by teatime :D

  182. Taranaich says:

    Long years ago I expressed my support for independence to an English friend, and got the reply that we’d all start fighting each other if we were independent.  I’d never come across that one before, and wondered if he was talking about sectarian conflict in the west central belt.  However, I just asked him what he meant.
    “The Campbells and the MacDonalds” was the reply.
     
    How ironic, an Englishman citing centuries-old clan conflict as a warning against independence which was contemporaneous with decades of civil conflict in England. To be fair, if he actually thinks the Scots would descend into anarchy upon independence, the case for a new English Civil War and a second Glorious Revolution is just as “logical.”

  183. uilleam_beag says:

    G. Campbell 
     
    Ian Smart’s “Three Tweets” blog is really quite extraordinary.He is unrepentant, and gives a barely comprehensible justification for his tweet-storm (to anyone who actually followed it at least), yet it lays bare what his intentions were from the start. 
     
    This was a deliberate trolling exercise (something he admitted himself) aimed at provoking a response from pro-independence twitterati that he would be able to use as further ammunition against the dreaded “cybernats”. At the same time, he attempts to make himself appear the reasonable party, standing proud against an assault of hysteric anonymous (sic) internet fiends. Predictably, the non-nats who also objected to his disgraceful comments are conveniently airbrushed out of his account.

  184. DougtheDug says:

    Reading Ian Smart’s explanation in his blog  for his tweet it turns out his internal logic is quite consistent. This is his explanation.
     
    1. All Scottish nationalists are racists and are currently focusing their racism on the English
     
    2. Scotland is too small, poor and stupid to survive as an independent country.
     
    3. After the subsequent and inevitable failure of Scotland to survive as a country then the racist Scottish nationalists will turn on internal minorities in Scotland.
     
    Consistent logic, but all based on assumptions which are not connected to the real world.

  185. muttley79 says:

    I think we should just ignore Ian Smart.  After all, this is the guy who was denying for ages after the 2011 elections that there was even going to be a referendum on independence.  I am afraid he is getting more and more extreme with his comments.  He is attempting to goad independence supporters.

  186. HandandShrimp says:

    Doug
     
    That is how I read it although he seemed to cite the US, India and Australia as countries where failed independence had occurred.
     
    LOL
     
    Muttley is right – file under mentalist and ignore

  187. Mac says:

     
    The smear that went wrong. Ian Smart will never escape accusations that he is openly racist.
     

  188. Yesitis says:

    Last I`ll mention it. Cue George (he puts the foul in) Foulkes.
     
    https://twitter.com/GeorgeFoulkes/status/331449441125011456

  189. HandandShrimp says:

     The smear that went wrong. Ian Smart will never escape accusations that he is openly racist.
     
    Mac
     
    If one is being kind I think he may have been on the wrong end of a Sunday roast and a bottle of wine when he jumped into the fray. It seems the only logical explanation for such a pig’s arse of a smear attempt.

  190. Alan says:

    Quite bizarre that you would claim Charles Green didn’t use the P word in a ‘prejudiced’ way. I don’t think everyone agrees with that. I certainly don’t. Part-consciousness or unconsciousness of the prejudice doesn’t excuse it (especially when unrepentant even when challenged) and nor does the fact that comparatively speaking there are more serious ways in which to deploy that word or be racist. His explanation that the particular context justified it was not convincing.

  191. Stirling says:

    If you want to let mconnell know how you feel, why don’t you pop along to the Stirling Smith Museum & Art Gallery on Saturday 11th May @ 10.30 where mcconnell,who has according to Anne McGuire MP built up an international reputation on conflict resolution and peace and aid issues will be the principal speaker.Also present will be none other than Blair Mcdougall and Melanie Ward Head of Advocacy at ActionAid UK.

  192. Morag says:

    So, let’s see.  The cunning plan is that first you tweet something genuinely outrageous, then a bunch of people are genuinely outraged, then you select out from the outraged responses the people you want to demonise, and tell everyone what a baying pack of vicious loonies they are.

    Certain to work.  Why didn’t we think of that?

  193. Mac says:

    Prince Harry had to publicly apologise for using the “P” word to describe a fellow soldier in 2009.
     
    At the time Mohammed Shafiq, director of Muslim youth organisation the Ramadhan Foundation said: “I am deeply shocked and saddened at Prince Harry’s racism. It has no justification.”
     
    Ian Smart cannot claim any justification in using this racist term. He should apologise, but he won’t, and by not doing the right thing he will be perceived as being a racist, justified or not.  That is extremely damaging to his reputation as a solicitor.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  194. douglas clark says:

    I have a lot of friends on this internet thingy that are either Pakistani or Bangladeshi, or indeed Indian. These are my friends.  Friendship counts for me, and I assume dear reader, it does for you too. You may never have met these people, however they are just as ‘nice’ as anyone else. I have a far higher idea of what we are than the likes of Iain Smart. We are largely internationalists, not his understanding of us but, there you go….

    It is just wrong to accept that an independent woman should be attacked by the likes of Iain Smart or anyone else.
     
    I am going to try to give you a link to doubt. If anyone tries to take the piss out of this, I will be incandescent, and swear words will be used. Treat this with repsect or fuck off:

    http://afroz.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/on-troubling-hadiths/

    I consider, have always considered her a friend. I am uncomfortable with printing this here, but we are not racist, and that needs to be spelt out to idiots like the smart man. I would rather cut off my left hand than hurt her.

    Just saying. We can have friends from all over the place.

  195. Morag says:

    This just showed up on Bella.
     

  196. Laura says:

    Albalha, Alexicon & Davy
    Belated thank you.

  197. Stuart Black says:

    I see George Laird is having a go at the Rev on Smart’s blog, with friends like that, eh?

  198. Gordon Bain says:

    On Call Kaye right now they’re discussing whether footballers should be held up as Role models. I thought I’d try to highlight the disparity between treatment of Leigh Griffiths for an offensive Tweet compared to Mr Smart. 
    Sorry, had to cut this short as Kaye actually spoke to ma. I say spoke to when I should say talked over. I’m not much of a public speaker though but the point has to be made.
    Saor Alba!

  199. Juteman says:

    Well done to whoever it was on Call UKaye this morning for raising this!

  200. Mac says:

     
    Lying lawyers and the the lies they tell.
     
    1. A lawyer turned comedian makes unsubstantiated claims of abuse and death threats.
     
    2. A lawyer turned political activist makes a claim that Scots are inherent violent racists whilst using racist terms himself.
     
    Law Society of Scotland – Standards of Conduct.
    Rule B1.2: Trust and personal integrity
     
    1.2 You must be trustworthy and act honestly at all times so that your personal integrity is beyond question. In particular, you must not behave, whether in a professional capacity or otherwise, in a way which is fraudulent or deceitful.
     
    Footnote: In 2011 the Law Society of Scotland published a report that 33% of ethnic minority solicitors believe their ethnicity has had a detrimental impact on their careers. Is the legal profession in Scotland institutionally racist, because it could easily explain the unthinking way Ian Smart tweeted a racist term using the “P” word? 

  201. Gordon Bain says:

    @ Juteman
    That was me! Fame at last. Like I say I’m not much of a public speaker but needs must as they say. The devil sure is driving in this country.

  202. Morag says:

    Congratulations, Gordon!

  203. Morag says:

    I see George Laird is having a go at the Rev on Smart’s blog, with friends like that, eh?
     
    That man is a raving loon of long standing.  It would worry me if he were on our side.

  204. Gordon Bain says:

    @ Morag
    Thank you. i wish more people would do that. Take the fight to them and stop them from setting the agenda.
    Aaor Alba!

  205. Mac says:

    Well done Gordon. You are correct to say that we should take the fight to them. 

  206. naebd says:

    Amadeus Minkovski: 
     
    false allegation … it is worth pointing out … entirely spurious predicate … WIKIPEDIA LINK … ‘Straw man’.
     
    Internet Bell-End Mode ACTIVATED
     
    Cool your jets, Einstein.

  207. Graeme Purves says:

    As someone proud of my Scottish Gypsy ancestry, I am alarmed to see that in his subsequent blog, Mr. Smart has enlarged the list of minorities identified for future persecution.  The man just can’t stop digging!



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