Johann Lamont’s conference speech
Posted on
March 22, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We think this picture makes further comment unnecessary.
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Na Johann Lamont doesnt cut it, too mich negativity and
Labour as socialist as Thatcherism now
“I think I forgot to turn the North Sea Gas off.”
Davidson looking as if he is thinking , “Wish I had brought my bayonet with me”
I think she is rolling her eyes not at Johann Lamont but at being seated next to Iain Davidson – who looks as if he has just farted…
These two poor, wounded foot-soldiers are in need of a bayoneting I think. It would clearly be a coup de grace…
By the way, who is the lady on the left? Is it perhaps the future Lady Davidson?
“I really hope Brewer isn’t doing the post-speech interview!”
At least the Chairchoob kept his tie oan, unlike Flipper
That woman looks as if she’s taken cyanide. Sitting next to Ian Davidson while listening to Wee Jeannie Buckfast would make me take cyanide as well!
All soundbites and rhetoric, we all want to see a just and fairer Scotland but she misses the whole part where we are under the constraint of an imperialist political system, Scotland ‘lead’ the UK..WTF no wonder the Chairchoob looks stunned
Oh look…there’s a squirrel….
Anne Mckechin looks totally pissed off.
I remember she was in the Evening Times campaigning in Glasgow against Post office closures, the very next day she hopped on a plane to London and voted for Post Office closures in Wastemidden.
She,s just another Labour parasite who cannot be trusted.
She’s probably Chairchoob’s hot date, waiting for Lego Movie to start.
I actually paused the telly while watching to show everyone. We decided she looked like a female Mr Bean from Whoville.
Labour-love-online.com > Find your perferct match at conference now !
Pilot of Labours first online dating website at conference gets off to fractious start….
Computer said a perfect match.
Ann McKechin used to be the Secretary of State for Scotland.
Robbie at 5.54,
Ah, so the Lady In Red is Ann McKechin?
Thanks to Google I now know she’s a Labour MP for a Glasgow constituency so it’s no surprise that I’ve never heard of her before today.
Secretary in a state for Scotland ,more like.
@annie says – Ann McKechin used to be the Secretary of State for Scotland
WTF..I can honestly say that I have never seen this woman in my life..just goes to show how high ranked the position of Secretary of State for Scotland is!
There is a very busy food bank in Maryhill, McKeechins area btw.
Laurie Lee, author of ‘Cider with Rosie’, wrote a wonderful letter to his baby daughter. In it he expressed the hope that she would join movements ‘for’ something, rather than those ‘against’. In her speech Johann Lamont has established herself as the leader of the Anti SNP Party.
The woman on the left looks like a zombie. Perhaps in a desparate bid to get more members, ‘Scottish’ Labour have decided to merge with the Citizens for Undead Rights and Equality Party?
oh lord..she’s at it again with the pooling and sharing and the pooling and sharing…
Ann McKechin – ‘look there’s a flying squirrel – oh no – it’s a flying pig.’
@Robin Ross – the flying pig was always oor Andy Goram..
Sorry guys got it wrong she was only Shadow Secretary.
Henry says, “Naw”.
http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/labour-must-stop-hating-salmond-1.281909
Nice pink tie.
Croompenstein at 5.53
I’m not in fact a squirrel. My portrait is admittedly a wee bit outdated but if you look closely I’m actually a very typical Fifer.
Just slightly less hairy than the norm, though…
Ms Curran said: “It’s nice to meet Allan Grogan because I’ve been a member of Labour for 38 years and I’ve never actually met him.
Says the person who couldn’t remember Dennis Healey as Treasurer despite being a student Labour activist at the time. How does she know if she didn’t meet Alan last week and has just forgotten?
Getting hubby and the kids on the stage was vomit inducing. Tho now we know where they get their looks from !!
But Scotland leading the UK was the best. Check the English newspapers comment columns you moron, they are sick of the Blairs, Browns and Darlings, and now that Millipede has found Scottishness in Inverkeithing he is for the heave as well.
Truly a farce, with the stage stooges looking like performing seals with their clapping.
O/T Venetians have voted overwhelmingly for their own sovereign state in a ‘referendum’ on independence from Italy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586531/Venice-votes-split-Italy-89-citys-residents-opt-form-new-independent-state.html
sorry it’s linking to the Heil but haven’t heard it mentioned on BBC news
The lady in red, what an appropriate colour, is thinking to herself, I was a 21 year old stunner when I began listening to Johann Lamont’s speech.
Motto: Listening to Labour puts years on you.
Party conferences are essentially political rallies to confirm the faith of the converted. A good conference manages to reach out a little further with keynote speeches impressing into the consciousness of the wider public. This is the last Labour conference before Sept 18th and I think it is a matter of some rejoicing that Milliband’s speech was pretty much condemned as anodyne and bland by political commentators north and south of the border. No sound bites there. Johann followed suit. I think it is a truism that politicians that continually prattle on about having conversations and honesty are the very ones that will not listen and you cannot trust. Someone with something to say says it and what is said is judged on its own merits.
In short, this has been a pretty damp squib affair and that is good for the Yes campaign. Devo Nano is probably the message that sticks the most.
I haven’t heard her speach but what a great speach it must be, look at the awe she’s inspired in her audience!
look, Davidson’s put down his bayonett and even looks like he might cry! 😀
D’oh, just realised that’s not how you spell speech, sorry folks
I’ve just read a comment on facebook that the woman made remarks about AS, his wife and their lack of children – is this true? (Can’t watch live stuff as not paying licence.)
o/t Keep your eyes open for a new ICM Poll in tomorrow’s SOS.
And honestly what the f*ck was that leg kicking pish at the end, I had the dry boak watching that..
Rod Robertson says
“Davidson looking as if he is thinking , “Wish I had brought my bayonet with me””
Any idea why they only allow plastic cutlery in Labour conference venues?
Have you SEEN the self harm statistics? 😉
The fears upon them 🙂
Croompenstein,
RT are reporting on their vote, You can watch at 7 0’clock
Population of region I think is about 5/6 million, far to small to survive in this big and compicated world. 🙂
I hope they realise that independance is forever.
I was seduced into watching the Generation 2014 debate on BBC2 a wee while ago. Humza vs Murphy.
At around 27 mins in, Jim spouts some guff about a NATO Constitution (can’t find one, but the treaty is available on-line) and further states quite clearly that it states their intention is to remove nuclear weapons globally (I paraphrase). Kids all swallowing it because there’s no challenge. Disgraceful.
I’ve asked him via twitter to clarify. Not holding my breath.
Had to share this it’s one of the comments in the Heil under the Venetian story I linked to..btw what’s everyone’s thoughts on the Venice ref..
About time England voted on separation from Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland. England would be fine on their own without the other three leeches draining our public purse and yes Scotland you can keep your oil, it’s running out anyway.
I might wear pink shirts and ties..
but someone’s still gettin’ a doin’..
Triskelion says
“oh lord..she’s at it again with the pooling and sharing and the pooling and sharing…”
why does that make me think of this?
The audience reaction was a sight to behold at the point where the speech was punctuated by humour. Yes, humour.
‘This is a big year. Only six months to go…till the Ryder Cup.’
[On the World Cup] ‘John Motson mentioning 1966 is a reason to change channels, not the constitution.’
I don’t think Victoria Wood has anything to fear as regards competition on the comedic wit front. In fact, I don’t think Victoria Beckham has anything to fear…
Paula Rose, it can be taken a few different ways given the context, but the Scottish Labour leader never tries too hard to be diplomatic on the topic of Alex Salmond. Given her constant personalised abuse and ridiculous emotional public performances it’s quite easy to read into her words that she was trying to have a snide dig at the First Minister’s family status –
But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children.
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/blog/entry/speech-to-scottish-labour-conference-by-johann-lamont-msp
Paula Rose@6.39pm
Picked up the quote you may be referring to on bbc, utterly disgusting comments from Lamont if that was the intention (I certainly wouldn’t put it past her):
“There is one thing which the first minister discovered this year – women give birth to children, then they look after them.
“So when his focus groups tell him women don’t like him, he discovers childcare. It wasn’t exactly the same as Fleming discovering penicillin.
“Splitting the atom it was not, but I suppose the first minister learning anything about how real Scots live their lives is some sort of progress.”
@BuckieBraes – I thought she was very disingenuous and out of order with her shite about FM and public money spent in Chicago at last Ryder Cup and I think most of the audience squirmed as well bearing in mind Wee Jack’s sojourns tae the Big Apple for tartan day. If there was any case for the FM to answer then the Scottish people would hold him to account but since he hasn’t it was a poor show from Ms Lamont..
“D’oh, just realised that’s not how you spell speech, sorry folks”
Nor is it how you spell bayonet! 🙂
” oh shit! There’s an elephant in the room and it’s about to crap on us!”
“where?”
The essence of Johann Lamont’s hate speech was that she was a mother and that Alex Salmond has a childless marriage. I kid you not.
Bill C, noticed Kenny Farq tweeted about the ICM poll. I take it yes vote down, if he’s bumping his gums promoting this.
“I don’t think Victoria Wood has anything to fear as regards competition on the comedic wit front. In fact, I don’t think Victoria Beckham has anything to fear…”
That made me chuckle………. brother 🙂
Is that a still from the new movie “Afternoon Of The Living Dead”?
I don’t think anyone would notice a global zombie apocalypse was under way if its first outbreak occurred amongst the members of the Scottish Labour Party to be honest.
Apparently, she made an Evening Times journalist deeply uncomfortable attacking : Salmond, his wife and their ‘childless marriage’.
So, I think further comment is necessary.
lamont is a nasty nasty bstard. what goes round and all that, look forward to the day her ying catches up with her yang, i despise her and everything about her.
Not social justice as the current Scottish government practices – tax breaks for the rich, cash for the privileged –and when they take a £1 billion away from the poorest in our society, they claim to be a progressive beacon.
When Johann Lamont said this what did she actually mean?
What tax breaks, what cash and what £1 Billion?
I’m sure that Labour think it’s based on something but I can’t think what.
Nice kipper tie.
Aye, ah’ll have milk and twa sugar with that hen.
@Findlay Farquharson – you know I heard her say it but it didn’t click at the time. You’re spot on what a nasty bstard. She may be a stairheed but I would shove her in a room with our very own Steven Seagull and let her be ripped to ribbons
DougtheDug – I heard this too and I don’t understand it – what taxation – breaks or otherwise is the SG even capable of for the rich?? It’s not a devolved power is it?
Is there a mental illness associated with obsessing about a particular person? Johann Lamont appears to be afflicted with it.
It seems that Johann Lamont is causing a shitstorm of anger over her personal attack on Alex Salmond’s childless marriage.
LFI speech
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/plea-for-more-tolerance-in-indy-debate-1-3350271
Gillie – she’s a vile and unhinged woman – I’m not saying that to political effect – I really do think as a human being this woman is a very nasty and vile piece of work – this is the exactly the type of person that NO sensible person would ever put in charge of anything or god forbid – anyone….
Seasick Dave @ 6.15
re: http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/labour-must-stop-hating-salmond-1.281909
On reading that I’m almost tempted to advise Labour to stop hating each other as well.. what a sad and raggedy bunch of chancers. Magret cannae help hersel fae bein a right fishwife. As my ol’ mum would’ve said.. she hiz a tongue that wid clip cloots.
If those folk are the best that a post-YES Labour-type party has to offer Scotland… a long spell in opposition beckons I’d say.
bang on croomp.
@Faltdubh – Not so sure, thought his tweet was a bit flat. Time will tell.
Hmm. A quick google reveals that
“Tax breaks for the rich” are universal benefits like free prescriptions which Lamont’s been banging on about for a while.
and
“£1 billion away from the poorest in our society” are universal benefits and the council tax freeze which Arthur “Bleak” Midwinter doesn’t like.
No idea where she got “cash for the privileged” from. The only reference in google refers back to her speech.
Is this true about Lamont mentioning that Alex Salmond has no children?
http://lasvegas.informermg.com/2014/03/21/opinion-by-david-nabhan-of-jet-streams-american-heroes-andearthquake-prediction/
Sorry for going so OT folks but if some of you could take a look at the attachment above I would be much obliged.
Mr. Nabhen is an American living in Philadelphia who has written two books on earthquake prediction and it is his opinion that as many people throughout the world become aware of this new science as it has the potential to save millions of lives.
I am in regular correspendence with David and he has asked me if there is any way that I could bring this phenomenon to an audience in Scotland. I could think of no better way than the regulars posters in Wings. We do seem to have a smart bunch on board. After September Scotland may be playing with the big boys on the world stage. This is just one instance of which we will have to take cognizance when we are independent.
Earthquakes may seem a million miles away to us here in Scotland but the new technique of ‘fracking’ looks like it is going to be introduced and some are worried that it may cause earthquakes when it is used.
His email address and website is contained within the attachment. He is a very interesting man to converse with and…he wants an independent Scotland.
@BillC, cheers. Just noticed that that and the others are mostly plugs for the SOS, like you say we’ll know in a 4 odd hours or so.
If true about Lamont attacking Salmond personally, what a truly disgusting woman she is.
I think this may be a turning point for New OneNation Labour and a direction for the 2015 general election.
There are rumours of a “Red Manifesto” – a vision for implementing Tory cuts and being tougher on welfare to eliminate any remaining hardworking families.
There is to be a “Red Committee” that will establish a “Red Commission” to interrogate any foreigner wishing to set foot on these Isles.
The whole thing will be coordinated under the “Code Red” campaign team headed by Anas Sarwar. All policies must demonstrate their “Red” credentials by having the word in the title and the colour scheme of the glossy brochure.
Exciting times.
It cannot have been a mistake for Johann Lamont to introduce her children on stage after her speech after attacking Alex Salmond for having none.
You thought Labour couldn’t stoop any lower, well think again.
Lamont is a sad bitter piece of scum that should be hounded out of Scottish politics after a yes vote , this pathetic creature thinks she will carry on her parasitical career in Holyrood in iScotland.
You can fuck off Lamont you nasty wee *******
” I would shove her in a room with our very own Steven Seagull and let her be ripped to ribbons”
what? like this ?
Is that Davidson searching the remaining few in the audience looking for another victim to threaten with his “do as I say or I’ll gie you a doin” speech?
On the up side at least we all know where Labour stand on our defence, don’t we?
For those pout there who are not aware of the forward thinking on Britain’s future defence plans here it is in all its glory from Jenny Marra. I’m guessing we’ll not be getting any ,ore of the an independent Scotland is too wee to have its own defence force then. 🙂
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26692400
@Faltdubh That was my take on it anyway, maybe I am reading too much into it. As far as Lamont is concerned, I cannot believe that even she would stoop so low, then again?? Disgusting!
This hate speech was a deeply personal attack on Alex Salmond. It wasn’t just an attack on his politics and his public persona but also an offensive jibe at his personal life and the fact he did not have any children in comparison to Lamont herself.
The parading of Lamont’s children was done to reinforce that message. What sort of parent would behave is such a reprehensible fashion? Johann Lamont is your own neighbour from hell.
Rob Shorthouse of the Better Together campaign says that his involvement in the independence campaign is just a way of paying his mortgage. No shame in that obviously. Engaging in the professional smearing, demonising and dehumanising of people for their political views in a liberal democracy is just a way of paying the bills.
Johann Lamont, on the other hand, claims about the biggest political grassroots campaign in Scottish history, the vast majority of whose participants aren’t in it for the money and, indeed, pay for it out of their own pocket –
The nationalists are running the most dishonest, deceptive and disgraceful political campaign this country has ever seen…
Decent nationalists throughout this country must be hanging their heads in shame at the campaign that is being run.
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/blog/entry/speech-to-scottish-labour-conference-by-johann-lamont-msp
At 2.41 GMT during JoLos speach Anne McKechin was going to sleep
its a 10sec shot,look into the eyes, look into the eyes,
Aye the ayes have it, the ayes have it,sleeping & half hearted
clapping,& Brian Taylors interview at the end,that Lassy was
stumped to answer JoLos mince on the SNPs handling of the
Referendem campain.
Although I admire her commitment, I find it deeply irresponsible for that lady in Red to have super glued her eyelids up to her eye brows.
Exciting times but be careful.
O/T but did anyone read a fantastic letter in todays Herald by a Mr Roddie MacLennan of Inverness?
“My father was a Labour party member, councillor and activist. I have been a trade unionist all my life and, for a period, a shop steward. I was a Labour member and activist for some years. My whole family are voting YES – that is six former labour voters.
I am not a nationalist but i am a Scotsman. Scotland is a nation and i am an internationalist. I feel no affinity with the political and commercial construct that is the British state, and particularly those who run it. I have no love for those who represent Better Together, especially Alistair Darling. Mr Darling is a career politician who stands to lose much if Scotland becomes independent.
His motivations are selfish but he is not alone in this regard. He has little credibility, in my eyes, having been in charge of the banking regulation that facilitated the recent collapse. Supposedly we are all paying for it and will be for decades to come. Unionist politicians are keen to tell us we’re part of the most successful political union in history; we’re better together.”
He then goes on to describe where we are now in this most successful of unions.
I feel that if so many other life long Labour voters were to honestly have a serious heart to heart with themselves they would all but agree with Mr MacLennan. For YES to succeed we need a few more Roddie MacLennans.
Let’s not forget…” I believe that we live in a union of five – Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the remarkable international city state of London” says British Nationalist & Tory Scottish Leader – Johann Lamont.
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/lamont-hints-at-support-for-bedroom-tax-plan-1-3279151
The Labour parties intoxication with ‘the remarkable international city state of London’ means the complete extinction of every working class ideal and principal they ever held.
Why not come clean Ms Lamont – Labour are de-facto (red) unionist Tory through and through!
You know, despite all of her faults I did agree with Lamont when she said this:
After that you know I don’t think I’ll have to take the bins out for a month.
The reason I agreed with her, well it’s kind of hard to put the bins out when you are already IN the bin! 🙂
I wonder when Lamont was saying this:
Let’s reclaim social justice for Scotland. Social justice as WE know it – a politics for the many not the few.
was she aware that Labour were planning to support pension reforms brought in by the Tories!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26693266
Education was what made Scotland great and what can make Scotland great again. I want to create an education system open to all at any age.
I’m sorry, but have I been asleep for the last few decades? I’m sure when I was a school, Scottish education WAS open to everyone. Has something happened to Scottish education between my time at school and now?
I am just catching up on things after being up in Perth all day visiting the in-laws and if what I am reading is true about Johann’s comments regarding Alex Salmond’s childless marriage then Labour have sunk even lower than I thought possible .
I know from personnel experience that there are many reasons why some couples never have children , some are through choice and some are through personnel tragedy,s and to try and make political capitol out of a childless couple is beneath contempt .
I was a G.M.B shop steward and labour activist for more than 10 years and it now disgusts me to think of how often I told my members to vote labour as labour would look after their interests .
I now don’t see how the likes of Alan Grogan and L.F.I can save the labour party from itself .
@gillie
Oh, I don’t think there can be much doubt as the intentions there; but politicians who exploit their offspring in this way are often asking for trouble (Euan Blair drunk in Leicester Square, for example).
However, I doubt whether Alex and Moira Salmond are getting too worked up about this, and neither should we. The so-called-Scottish Labour Party is tying itself in knots. Was Lamont’s speech addressing the Referendum campaign, the 2015 Westminster GE or the 2016 Scottish Parliament election? Or none or all of these?
The Referendum is first up: and when Labour and its Tory ‘Better Together’ partners lose, then all the ‘look at us and how fertile our Scottish puppet leader is’ stuff will be utterly irrelevant.
McKeechin looks like a skinny Siobhan McMahon.
BuckieBraes says:
However, I doubt whether Alex and Moira Salmond are getting too worked up about this, and neither should we. The so-called-Scottish Labour Party is tying itself in knots. Was Lamont’s speech addressing the Referendum campaign, the 2015 Westminster GE or the 2016 Scottish Parliament election? Or none or all of these?
I think the answer is none of the above Buckie she was doing what she does best, or should that be worst, she was attacking Alex Salmond and the S.N.P. nothing more nothing less.
In regards to Lamont’s speech: there is a hell of a lot of projecting going on. Basically everything the No campaign are saying about the Yes campaign, is in fact what they are guilt of themselves. On Lamont’s comments about Salmond; Yes supporters should not rise to her bait. Lamont has done this before in regards to saying “As a mother.” We all know what she is doing, the intention and the malicious nature of these remarks. It is a really vile tactic, but they do not have anything else to offer. Lamont has no political talent at all. Her hatred will just eat her up, just leave her do it. Remain positive and do not go into the gutter with her, Paul Sinclair, or her pal Magrit, and other talentless SLAB careerists.
I’ve been reading through the threads and I must say I agree with the points about ‘normalisation’ – I’ve been wearing my Yes badge (one on each fur) for the last year and now I get grins and smiles, before either indifference or denial.
This is probably as off topic as one can get but we are down the thread a bit.
In putting the meaning of the word “subsequent” into context by incorporating it in a sentence it is, imho, interesting to see what Google Has come up with…
http://tinyurl.com/pbpugxh
@Silvertay
I know from personnel experience that there are many reasons why some couples never have children , some are through choice and some are through personnel tragedy,s and to try and make political capitol out of a childless couple is beneath contempt.
This. To be honest I do not think we should talk about this too much. It really does not deserve to be discussed much further. This paragraph basically explains why.
Al Jazeera have a piece (with a video) on the Venice referendum here:-
http://www.aljazeera.com/video/europe/2014/03/venice-votes-unofficial-referendum-2014321162638781413.html
BuckieBraes:
With all the references to nationalists, nationalism, Alex Salmond, the First Minister and the SNP I think her intended audience as actually Alex himself.
Here is the nasty red Tory party comment from their inglorious ‘leader’ attacking Salpnd’s childless marriage:
“””But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children. Then they look after them.
So when his focus groups tell him women don’t like him he discovers childcare. It wasn’t exactly the same as Fleming discovering penicillin. Splitting the atom it was not but I suppose the First Minister learning anything about how real Scots live their lives is some sort of progress.
I’m not going to give any theories about why the First Minister has a problem with women.”””
Is it now OK for us girls to attack the pretendy slab wifey for her lack of fashion sense, her inability to stick to a diet, her ridiculous make-up and her inability to string words together – or should we play the ball not the woman?
Robbie says,
Lamont is a sad bitter piece of scum that should be hounded out of Scottish politics after a yes vote, this pathetic creature thinks she will carry on her parasitical career in Holyrood in iScotland.
You can fuck off Lamont you nasty wee *******
This is exactly the sort of post which I was talking about the other day. Whilst I agree with the sentiments(!) they’re expressed in a way which allows the No campaign to write this site off as ‘nasty and nationalist’. People! Stop doing this!
Rev. You’ve got to do something about this. For all we know, Robbie may be a troll from the dark side. Please sort out a swearie word diverter, if only to allow you to have a look before publishing.
I think she has ordered up one of these;
http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-lamont-dial-spite-invective-prompt.html
I think wee Johann and the rest of her Labour Party gangsters have got it into their head that it is only SNP supporters who have a vote on 18th Sept.
Do you think we should let them know that the whole of the Scottish electorate have a vote.
Or will we just let them figure it out for themselves.
how many people would have switched the telly on to watch and listen to the worst and nastiest public servant in scotland? and dumbest, not many i wager.
I do think Andrew Morton has a point – but on the other hand, this is not exactly a case of chivalrous males attempting to impress us fair maidens, but do be moderate boys unless you have Ronnie’s gift for humour.
My first wee attempt at political blogging … because yes, what the world really needs is another political blogger!
As a former Labourite, this has been … coming for a while.
This month has just digusted me though.
http://www.commentisntfree.com/ears-wide-shut/
Ian Gray had his “Subway” moment.
Johann has had a number of equally-damaging car-crash moments, and recently seems intent on adding to the list on a daily basis.
Cut her some slack.
She is doing a great job for YES.
Nice one Jon D!
Regarding Liemont…Shite in…Shite out!
Reading that comment about Lamont’s underhand and not so subtle reference to the First Minister’s childless marriage is making me feel the same way about her as I did about Thatcher. Never thought I could ever even feel that way again about any political leader, she’s just managed it.
@Paula Rose8.55, noo ah wiz jist thinking of you on your last
post ( two furs ) did you have sombody on the inside at the
Badger cull,ah wiz looking fur a heid tae get a Spooran made,
whits the chances of you aquireing wan fur me wink, wink,ah f
saky its badges no badgers sos Paula Rose.
If it’s true about Lamont’s despicable jibes at AS’s personal life then all I can say is that she is a public disgrace to Scotland.
I watched her car crash interviews with Brewer and with Taylor with mounting disbelief and concluded she is the political reincarnation of Stanley Unwin (look him up younger wingcos).
A babbling charlatan without an ounce of scruple or intelligence. Spitting out speak your weight sound bites: ‘pooling and sharing’,’broad shoulders’ blah blah blah. With absolutely no basic understanding of the economic figures she quoted, she made Douglas Fraser sound like Adam Smith.
How long are the journalists in this country going to prostitute their professional integrity allowing this self-serving cretin away with her nasty, low and vile behaviour?
Along with the other ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s in the Labour party jerking like badly constructed marionettes to the BT drumbeat of doom, this grotesque pantomime has been allowed to drag on too long.
History will condemn the BBC for permitting these political shams credence and the oxygen of publicity.
Public broadcasting?…Give Radio Govan Jackie Bird’s salary and I bet they’d give a better and more balanced service to the country.
I sincerely hope that no parent decided that today would be a good day to introduce their child to the world of politics.
Imagine a 16 year old looking for information to help make a decision on the future of their country and they decided to tune into this.
What’s more appalling is that constant ‘as a mother’ line that Lamont is so keen to trot out time and again.
Frankly it’s sickening.
If memory serves me right, Moira Salmond is about 16 or 17 years older than Alex, and they married when she was well into her 40s. So there’s no great mystery as to why they never had children. It’s a pity that fact isn’t better known, because I think it says something quite positive and interesting about him.
Its ma eyes ma eyes, ave seen the coming of the Sword
iys the Sword of Damocles hanging over Slab.
I’m still trying to figure out if the words Johann actually said were merely unintentionally crass, or deliberate. Given that the speech would have been worked over by a team, I suspect those who think the whole thing was deliberate are right.
I agree that Alex and Moira are probably not all that upset by this. The reason they have no children is well-known. Moira had a fairly high-powered civil service job and didn’t marry until she was in her early forties. It’s not exactly a big deal.
However, the idea that being childless is something to be ashamed of, something that leaves one vulnerable to attack, is absolutely unconscionable. There are many couples who have gone through medical hell to have children and not succeeded. Attacks like that from a politician shame her entire party.
And another thing. Who else doesn’t have children in this debate? Nicola and Peter, that’s who. Nicola is 43. Never say never, but like Moira it looks like she’s cutting it a bit fine. At a wild guess, I would suspect that Nicola has put her political career and latterly the achieving of independence above starting a family. That’s her choice, and I respect it.
Would Johann Lamont really parade her children in front of Nicola Sturgeon and say, nyah-nyah, look what I’ve got that you don’t?
Did she just do that?
@ronnie anderson says:
Badger cull,ah wiz looking fur a heid tae get a Spooran made
Just as long as no nice squirrels or beavers are involved.
I didn’t mention the age disparity because I’ve seen that used to disparage Alex too. “He married his boss” is a line I’ve seen quite often. He was 25 and Moira 42 when they married, I believe. And I don’t believe he has looked at another woman since. Apart from almost snogging Mrs. Murrell whenever the cameras require it of course. Wouldn’t the press just love an SNP sex scandal, but they ain’t going to get one.
And then I’ve seen the absolute pits from the real trolls. Look away now if you’re easily offended. “Alex Salmond shags grannies.”
This is the quality of the unionist argument people.
@john king @7.49 – exactly like that John, oor Steven wid sort her oot big time
Sorry to be cruel but if that’s Davidson’s missus I think it says it all about his powers of, erm, persuasion shall we say
Slab need more airtime – the more often they spout this mince, the sooner folk will wake up to the fact they offer less than nothing.
Amazingly I find my self agreeing with Margaret Curran – a NO vote most certainly isn’t for the status quo. It’s for something much worse than we have now.
We have had the love bombing now it political suicide bombing.
@Morag – Alex Salmond shags grannies ..ooh matron!
James Forrest
That was a fantastic article which should be read by every voter in the country.
Take a bow.
So without children you cannot care about the future of generations of Scotland.
It must follow that without having been poor you cannot fight for the poor (Sorry Mr. Benn)
Without having been to War you cannot reject it.(WMD stay)
Not having endured a major illness you cannot value or fight for a health service.
Without a degree you cannot value education for the young.
If you have no trade it must be impossible to see the need for apprenticeships.
What a nasty, twisted person Johann is.Unfortunately only those in the photograph would be qualified to make that comment under their qualification standards.
Lots of talk of “pooling and sharing” in that car crash speech, tell you what though, I doubt the water would share a pool with lamont.
Its all “buzz words” and catchphrases with this mob.
They are a disgrace to Scotland and I hope Scotland punishes them accordingly in September and beyond.
O/T Needing handers 🙂 over on an article on the Torygraph, about Lamonts speech, only me and Conan the Librarian v 4 or so other totally irrational unionists.
It’s hard work and wearing me down, wee bit of support would be helpful.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10716528/Alex-Salmond-is-running-the-most-deceptive-Scottish-political-campaign-ever.html
It is not only a nasty, cheap, personal attack on Alex Salmond but also on Moira who is not a politician or public figure.
I see no reason for people to be restrained in their use of language in these circumstances, Lamont wasn’t.
Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m really looking forward to seeing tomorrow’s papers, and haven’t felt like that for a long time.
It can’t be possible for anyone – anyone – to spin that fiasco in Perth as being anything other than the death-rattle of the Labour movement in Scotland.
Johann reminds me of Thatcher and as soon as she spoke I changed channel so I have no idea of what she said. If as being inferred above is what she implied then the MSM should be all over her in a true functioning democracy, stop laughing at the back, for those sort of slurs which is gutter talk at its lowest.
Honestly, Thepnr, why don’t you just leave them to get on with it? I doubt if there’s a single undecided voter reading it.
Lamont slimes down into the gutter.
video of journalists’ discomfort at Lamont’s speech regarding her comments on salmond’s childless marriage:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=751171548236037&set=vb.100000295962370&type=2&theater
Lamont descends into the septic tank that is her nasty red Tory wont by verbally attacking SALMOND’S CHILDLESS MARRIAGE and by inevitable default, assaulting verbally SALMOND’S WIFE (a woman who stays out of things):
“””But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children. Then they look after them.
So when his focus groups tell him women don’t like him he discovers childcare. It wasn’t exactly the same as Fleming discovering penicillin. Splitting the atom it was not but I suppose the First Minister learning anything about how real Scots live their lives is some sort of progress.
I’m not going to give any theories about why the First Minister has a problem with women.”””
Seems like a good time for me to direct any of you generous Wings folk that haven’t yet donated to the YES Pollok campaign base fundraiser here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-pollok-campaign-base
It’s in Johann Lamont’s constituency.
Just sayin’
There is no doubt that Labour deliberately targeted Alex Salmond’s childless status to draw comparisons and lay accusations. It was no mistake that Lamont’s children were front and centre after her speech. That again was a deliberate act.
@Calgacus MacAndrews,Ah want a good quality Spooran,Squirrel
spooran,s cost,s peanuts,noo a nice Beaver pelt n heid noo thats
class,ma cousins in Canada, noo where did ah put that auld phone
diary,thanks Calgacus ah would never though o Beaver, as their
in short supply roon aboot Airdrie,aye WoS is a great site fur
careing n shareing LOL.
“There is one thing which the first minister discovered this year – women give birth to children, then they look after them.
“So when his focus groups tell him women don’t like him, he discovers childcare. It wasn’t exactly the same as Fleming discovering penicillin.
“Splitting the atom it was not, but I suppose the first minister learning anything about how real Scots live their lives is some sort of progress.”
Here, right here, is why Scottish (sic) Labour are unelectable. And I mean unelectable, these people are unsuitable to take any part in public life and, when we reclaim our nation, I do hope that we will all pull together to make sure that these scum play no part in the formation of our future.
Utterly sickened.
Thepnr says:
Sorry I am banned from The Telegraph comments.
Good luck but remember about wrestling pigs in mud.
If Lamont said anything disparaging about Mr & Mrs Salmond having no children she is beyond the pale and deserves every criticism coming her way.
She is a despicable woman promoted way beyond either her pay scale of her intellegence.
She is a disgrace to public service.
If Lamont said anything disparaging about Mr & Mrs Salmond having no children she is beyond the pale and deserves every criticism coming her way.
She is a despicable woman promoted way beyond either her pay scale of her intellegence.
She is a disgrace to public service.
“the remarkable international city state of London”
Given her performance at various interviews, Ms Lamont may not realise that London is known as the money-laundering capital of the world but I am sure that her speech writer, Mr Sinclair, does. Is this a signal to the City of London that it can count on Labour?
Regarding bringing her children onto the stage, does Ms Lamont think that her fecundity qualifies her for the post of First Minister?
Apologies for double post. I definitely only pressed once.
@Thepnr – don’t rise to the bait, a line has been crossed today and it’s a line they cannot defend. Can they truly say that ours is a deceptive campaign when so many of us give freely of our money and our time and they cannot even be bothered to turn up to defend their ‘union’ at public meetings across the country.
On money I raised in another thread about Yes dropping the paypal link, is it that bad Stuart, are paypal making money out of this as I would rather post a cheque if this is the case
O/t Kenny Farquharson tweets that there’s a new ICM opinion poll in tomorrow’s Scotland on Sunday
Seasick Dave:
“James Forrest
That was a fantastic article which should be read by every voter in the country.
Take a bow.”
I’ll second that.
@Stuart Black
Coming late to this (was moving paper clips around a desk rather than watch her address) but is that a direct quote from Lamont’s speech?
If so, she has moved from a figure of ridicule to one of detestation.
Furthermore, this woman is a stain on Scottish democracy, she has nothing to put forward for the good of the Scottish people, her only policy is to hate the SNP, and especially Alex Salmond.
I have never voted for any other party but Labour (I was out of the country at the last election), but I will never cast my vote for these people in future.
An attitude like this is plain evidence that the bearer is utterly unfit for public office. I realise that Ms Lamont is too stupid to recognise this, or to feel shame about it, but I can reassure her there; I in person feel the shame that she is incapable of. The recent interviews have shown her up for the charlatan that she is, but this is something altogether different.
I hang my head on your behalf, Ms Lamont. Just go, for god’s sake go…
@liz says:
Apologies for double post. I definitely only pressed once.
I have desktop with a mouse that likes to click on the way down and then on the way up again because 64bit Win7 assumes everyone has laptops annoying but will be solved by voting Yes in September only once.
Utterly despicable, despicable, despicable woman.
She must go.
NOW.
Looks like I was right about the SoS poll. Apparently it’s a “double blow for the UK”. YES closing the gap and voters “deeply sceptical” that a No vote will lead to more powers. Happy days!
@training Day: check the comments above. You are right though; no longer a figure of fun, but a blot on our landscape.
Unacceptable.
Advance warning.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/447456551142686720
Nicola Sturgeon tweet – Exclusive ICM poll shows #yes continues to close the gap – see tomorrow’s @scotonsunday #indyref
http://inagist.com/all/447441536234840065/
@cynicalHighlander LOL.
I seem to have souper douper mega fast broadband that does stuff on it’s own.
I sometimes think about clicking on an article and it’s already done it for me. Help!
Link to SOS front page:http://t.co/j6LxLALyBR
If they were no commentators on websites such as the Torygraph there would be no Cybernats. The way I see it is you can only point out the lies and fallacy above the line if you are prepared to put a different point of view.
There is no abuse, no anti-englishness. Just links to articles that show the hypocrisy of the articles. Think back to the day Osborne announced there would be no currency Union. The Guardian alone had over 3000 comments.
I know many are split on this, but take the Daily Record for example, there are many many people who will read the articles AND the posts online. The pro-independece comments can help people to change their mind. Of this I am sure and if you change one persons mind he/she may influence others.
Here on Wings as much as I love it, it is still a bubble, get in there amongst the No’s and the DK’s.
Never be afraid to voice your opinion. At least that’s how I see it.
Double blow for the UK says SOS. Yipee!
I don’t like to be unkind, but the vision in red looks like one of the not yet undead audience last week listening to hockey sticks Ruth Davidson (Ian Davidson’s love child?)
James Forrest
If Carlsberg made political bloggers,
you would be up there wi oor Derek
keep it up
“It can’t be possible for anyone – anyone – to spin that fiasco in Perth as being anything other than the death-rattle of the Labour movement in Scotland.”
There’s truth for you.
Was it not the case that Gordon Browns wife Sarah joined him on stage and took the unpresedented step of actually making a speech at a Labour party conference in support of him as a husband etc. It didnt save him from the flak and him falling on his sword at the next general election of 2010. It will be the same fate for the disgraceful Johann Lamont who used her own family on stage in the same fashion. She has never been able to get the better of Alex Salmond politically and thus in her final dying swan performance to the Scottish electorate she disgraced herself and her party and showed why she is unfit for public office. Disgusting stuff. Lamont is toast. Good riddance.
While we wait on the ICM data being released, their previous Referendum poll was in January. Our James Kelly’s site interpreted the poll on his blog;
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/this-is-bit-where-everything-changes.html
@The pnr – The campaign is now bedding in, we have our solid yes and from that there is no turning back, they have their solid no and they are perfectly entitled to hold that view although you and I will never see why, but their are soft no’s and don’t knows and these will not be reached by online forums they will be reached by grassroots door to door, public meetings and word of mouth. Let’s do all we can and leave those entrenched views where they belong
from the Sunday Herald;
Our splash tomorrow: ‘Misleading, lurid, conjecture and fantasy’ – International economist savages Osborne’s case against currency union.
Sorry I fouled up the formatting.
*sits self on naughty step*
James that is a really excellent article. I was flagging by the time I got to the end though and I think it was the white-on-black. I think you’d do better with a more eyeball-friendly colour layout.
@James Forrest
I second Seasick Dave’s comments on your article. Your blog is very clever, to the point and well written.
Like you I was a life long Labour supporter (and paid up member) but finally gave that up when Ed Balls come out and supported Osborne on the pound and CU.
They no longer represent or even care about the people they are meant to stand up for.
Nice Chris Brookmyre comment on Osborne on the first link:
https://twitter.com/Celebs4indy/status/447497760640888832/photo/1
https://twitter.com/cbrookmyre
Just spotted the Sunday Times headline on Sky News
that ‘Tories neck and neck with Labour’……….
James,
Yes, an excellent article but agree with Morag on the b/w format, very tiring on the eyes.
One anomaly seems to be that although you support universality you call it, ‘The Political Website For The Lower Classes’. Seems rather un-inclusive to me.
@Croompenstein
I totally agree about taking our voice and vision to the streets and to the people we meet. Nothing wrong with taking them online either, here at WoS, facebook, twitter or newspaper comments.
Anyway, I’d nothing better to do since my wife is at my nieces Hen Night and I’m stuck alone in the bedroom with just a laptop and lots of crisps and tins of Irn Bru.
SoS front page.
‘Oh look, a bat!’
Had enough of they squirrels.
On seeing first mention of Lamont’s comments I assumed it was something overheard, off-the-record etc, but it turns out it was in her speech?
FFS…
Something fishy about it though. It doesn’t sound like the language she would use. The syntax doesn’t ring true – it’s too polished. (‘Splitting the atom it was not…‘ is particularly jarring.)
Can we try to find out who actually wrote it? Does she have a regular stable of writers? Perhaps we should ask them directly – doesn’t let JoLa off the hook, but the idea that this atrocious attack was planned and approved before even reaching Lamont takes it to a different level.
I hope that is just a particularly unflattering picture of that lady on the left (that is the literal, not metaphorical, left – it is a Skoddidge Labour conference after all, the word ‘left’ is heading the same way as the word ‘socialism’ did a few years back).
She looks like someone doing that joke thing we have all done where you press your face up to a pane of glass and slide it down a little to amuse the children.
I suppose, sitting next to a pain of no class could have much the same effect.
Very unedifying (and probably not Ed defying either).
@thepnr – No stag night?? Hoose to myself is a dream come true and I would probably be on there countering the ‘proud Scots’ and our uneducated neighbours but keep the faith my friend this is our time..dunno bout the Irn Bru though I am more partial to a single malt..
Ian Brotherhood
– that’s because Lamont didn’t write it or anything in her speech, nor did anyone in Scotland. I suspect it was penned in London, as I agree there are certain phrases, terms and syntax that are most definitely not hers, nor are they of Scottish origin.
Did she not say something about preferring something to ‘plaid’?
@Thepnr
A flickering laptop..?
This despicable creature used to teach children ENGLISH, has reached the top of the Labour Party in Scotland, or should I say floated to the top of the cesspool that the Labour Party in Scotland has become. I hope all the NO people who profess to hate Alex Salmond reflect on their leaders and the company they are associating with.
anyone know the icm poll percentages?
First up guys, thanks for your kind words on the blog, and I’ll look into a wee redesign to improve the colour scheme!
Whilst I was on earlier, I noticed the chatter over Johann Lamont’s remarks today, and I have to admit that when I listened to the speech at first I was only half-interested. I heard that line and heard another attack on the First Minister. It was only later, after reading here, that I went back and took another look.
I can’t believe that. I actually literally cannot believe that. It’s those early lines that are the most damning, and I am staggered that they were ever uttered from the podium by a major party leader.
Even if she is, herself, too stupid to catch the inference – and you don’t really have to look hard for it, had I been fully tuned in today I would never have missed that in a million years – but her speech writing and media team surely aren’t?
She brought her kids on stage at the end too. Has that ever happened outside a General Election? Or maybe it’s common practice. Either way, taken with the speech, it looks unmistakably not only crass but despicable.
Honestly, I am shocked at that, and as those who’ve read the blog know, I thought as was at the absolute nadir of my frustration and anger at the party I was once a member of. That is a low I never thought I was see from anyone in politics in this country.
Appalling. A resignation moment in every way.
I never heard the Lamont’s speech but have heard the journalist’s comments afterwards and read the comments here, if she did say what she is supposed to have said, and these speeches’ are scrutinised before they go out, it is despicable.
It wont change any Yes voters but it might change some No or Undecided voters. So thanks Mrs Lamont now sod off.
A summary of the poll details;
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/447506488983310336/photo/1
Jesus when I am writing too fast I don’t half make a lot of mistakes!
cearc:
I intended my byline to be ironic, but you’re not the first person to suggest it might be taken the wrong way, so that’ll go as well!
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
Another #IndyRef poll, this time from ICM, has YES getting closer
http://tinyurl.com/q53vl42
No – 46% – 3 Yes – 39% + 22
Sunday Herald front page https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/447510352289222657/photo/1
tomorrow’s Sunday Herald front page
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/447510352289222657/photo/1
Edward
snap 🙂
That should be No 46% -3, Yes 39% +2, DK 15% +1
According to Mike Smithson (poll watcher?) tomorrow’s SoS ICM figures are YES 39%(+2), No 46%(-3) and 15% Don’t knows. Trend is all important. Seems to me that YES is continuing to close and quickly. Happy days.
@hepnr says:
If they were no commentators on websites such as the Torygraph there would be no Cybernats.
I agree.
I think we have the Cyber-war won for YES, but we need to keep fighting on all fronts right to the end.
That includes all the major newspaper online comments sections, where we can continue to put up the truth and the views that the MSM still won’t publish, and direct people to Wings and other Pro-Indy websites.
In theory the serious campaign hasn’t even begun yet, so it would be foolish to underestimate the number of the undecided who have yet to go looking online for referendum information.
Daily Cybernattin’ on the newspaper websites also gives a feel for how the mood is changing, and picks up when newspapers start behaving badly (like when the Daily Record yesterday looked like it decided to have a mass deletion of posts).
That said, we must also in parallel find ways (like the “Aye Right” leaflets and cards) to reach the people who can’t or won’t go looking for information online.
Back to the ‘flickering screen’ …
(reaches for juice bottle, opens another packet of crisps)
Name – calling – the last resort of empty headed bullies. What’s the old saying:
Sticks and stones may break my bones….
but chains and whips excite me.
Let’s just laugh at them and their foolishness:-)
and I think to myself what a wonderful world 😉
It’s been annoying, who that woman in red reminds me of – just got it: Jack Nicholson, as McMurphy, at the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.
@ James – Concur with others and a very fine article. Got to agree with Morag regarding the white on black. Squiffy eyes while reading it or maybe it was the wee nightcap kicking in.
My thoughts on the Johann Lamont speech.
http://whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/the-dark-heart-of-johann-lamont/
Imagine if the leader of your preferred political party just made a speech and you thought: jeez, I hope nobody was listening to that.
Labour now officially dead in Scotland, as dead as their Tory playmates.
@Thepnr
Always remember: debate is seldom about changing the minds of the opposition, for they are wedded to their view, normally. Debate is, as you say, about putting the case to the audience.
O/T on one of their biggies, currency..ringing any bells..
Nevertheless, the government of the day was cautious and Gladstone was not alone in considering the problem of public education to be insurmountable
http://www.royalmint.com/discover/decimalisation/decimal-debate
@James Forrest
James, I just read your blog 15 mins or so ago and I don’t think anyone has ever put it better than you have done about the state of the current Labour Party in Scotland.
I too was once a member and though this was a short love-in I still have voted for them for almost 40 years.
No more though, Independence first. Real change is the only way for Scotland and her people.
Parties will promise anything, we have to hold them to their promises. I believe now that we can do that, only if we have Independence though.
im sure she has secured the votes of all childless couples in scotland who will not at all feel belittled by her nastiness.
@ T Jenny – 50 Shades of ????
@Ian Brotherhood – McMurphy, at the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest well spotted Ian..lobotomized to the nth degree, let us be the chief and throw the sink(UK) right oot the f*cking windae…
@muttley79: On Lamont’s comments about Salmond; Yes supporters should not rise to her bait. Lamont has done this before in regards to saying “As a mother.” We all know what she is doing, the intention and the malicious nature of these remarks. It is a really vile tactic, but they do not have anything else to offer. Lamont has no political talent at all. Her hatred will just eat her up, just leave her do it. Remain positive and do not go into the gutter with her, Paul Sinclair, or her pal Magrit, and other talentless SLAB careerists.
I agree in principle, but frankly I think this episode is a perfect example of why we need to get the hell out of Westminster-style politics.
See, for all the genius of shows like Yes, Minister and The New Statesman (the latter is one of my favourite ever shows), I think they also did something rather dangerous: they normalised the idea of political corruption. Rather than being something that was innately wrong, it became associated with the profession to such a degree that people now actively equate politics with snide, self-serving, insidious, cynical liars. This is treated as the rule, rather than the exception, to the point where I fear people have even lost any hope of thinking politics could be anything else.
You hear it all the time, “politicians are all the same,” “they’re all as bad as each other,” that’s politics” – NO. WHY does it have to be this way? Because that’s how it is in Westminster and Washington? Because that’s how it is in several other European countries? You only have to look at the conduct of several of our finest MSPs from all parties to see the vast difference in courtesy, sensitivity, and tact in comparison to the baying mandrills at Whitehall, who will happily accuse each other of all manner of horrendous things with impunity.
Rather than ignore this, I think this should be used to show exactly the sort of thing wrong with the UK’s political system. An independent Scotland doesn’t have to be a “wee pretendy Westminster”: severed from their UK parties, they don’t have to play to their UK superiors. Holyrood is already different, from the chamber’s set up to the electoral system itself: the culture change would be strengthened in independence.
It’s just another thing we can do differently, to show there is an alternative.
@James Forrest
Well done James. Great article.
I only care about Scotland being a fairer country. My MSP must be focused on the people of Scotland. I don’t care which party or parties gain power providing WE elected them and they remember it.
I have had discussions with a number of people over on Twitter Papadox who were unfortunate enough to actually have her as their English teacher and in all these conversations there are two words that keeps coming up time after time…ABYSMAL and ATROCIOUS!
Another person I have talked to on Twitter has a brother who used to teach at the same school as Lamont and surprise surprise he says the same thing about her teaching ability, or rather LACK of teaching ability… she was utterly useless!
@Clootie – and no f*cking ermine worshipping self serving kow towers to wasteminster that is a goal we all share..
(so just a wee reminder – Ian’s got a wee get together in Glasgae, I’ve got one in Brechin – wee Eddie Lizzard disnae want us to go to his gig – any other excitement 4.1.14?
@Vronsky –
There must be thousands of diehard lifelong Labour voters all across Scotland, right now, reading this and other sites, necking their bevvy of choice and wondering what on earth to do.
To any who may be reading this, please bear something in mind – if you support Labour, and always have, because your Granda/Da did, then you need to acknowledge the fact that ‘all things must pass’. If your Granda and Da voted Labour, that was their decision, and they were doing so for what they held to be good reasons.
In the unhappy event that your Granda and/or Da is pan-breid, six-feet-under, pushing up daisies , i.e. dead,, you are under no obligation to vote ‘Labour’ as some form of memorial – would your ancestors approve of what Lamont said today? Would they recognise the ‘Labour’ movement in Scotland as remotely similar to the party they supported?
Even if your Granda/Da are still alive, and hell-bent on voting Labour, does it follow that you have to do so?
The future of this nation is at stake. Think for yourselves and do the right thing – if you don’t like what Labour has become, it’s up to you to change it. But in the meantime, don’t pass up this chance on the basis of some personal sense of loyalty to people who are deid, or worse, too blinkered and brainwashed to admit that they’ve been duped by a gang of incestuous careerists whose own loyalties are utterly bound to the flyblown ‘New Labour’ carcass.
Thus endeth the sermon – go in peace…
Sorry really messed that one – going to bed and hiding.
Andrew Morton.
I agree totally.
Ian Brotherhood speaks xx
At the same time as Lamont was spewing her bile on BBC Tv Chelsea Arsenal was on BT Sport.
Which had a bigger audience?
nobody but political anoraks and hacks were listening to this vile person.
Let us give it no publicity.
Taranaich: Excellent point, wonderfully put.
I am just utterly astonished that Lamont would allow herself to drop so far down the gutter, but hey she has just proven me wrong. Just when you think Labour can not drop any further down into the gutter up they step and prove you wrong. I agree with everyone who says that her position is untenable however I have just one simple request. Can she please stay on as “leader” of Labour in Scotland until 19th September she is an absolute gift to the YES campaign. 🙂
This is the woman who constantly demands a debate but when one is offered she runs away, and when she doesn’t run away she just stands and shouts at her opponent all night. She is totally incapable of debating herself out of a wet paper bag!
I’ve had a few bevvies and I will say it again..no mention of nuclear wepaons or environmental abuse..Our own Stuart Black posted about nuclear pollution on another thread and was incredulous abot the lack of response on this forum..well I must say I am equally deflated about the lack of comment on the subject of nuclear weapons..come on people this is our children’s future..
Ian Brotherhood – you do have a wonderful way with words. I hope there are many Lab voters, who may be thinking of voting No, reading and thinking thereon.
@ Croompenstein
As someone who watches these abominations sail past my aunties window, I can assure you that I am with you as are many others I know. The Heralds article on the MOD and its plans to discharge more toxic waste shocked and angered me too.
I made sure all my friends on social media were made aware this, but first and foremost, we need the powers.
Yours still bevvying
bunter
http://www.commentisntfree.com/ears-wide-shut/
Excellent blog from well known Celtic James Forrest well to those who go on the football message boards . He disnae miss Milliband Wee Jimmy Krankie and Labour well and truly puts the boot in. This is the hard core Labour vote and its turning big time .
James Forrest blogs are widely read amongst Celtic support which was once the hardest of the hard Labour vote
Brilliant stuff
@Paula Rose –
I hope Brechin is ready for whatever you have planned.
If you like, we could do a Skype-type arrangement and talk to each other, including the Wingers who are working or otherwise unavailable.
Can you imagine, say, Major Bloodnok, BtP or Stuart Black addressing the hushed crowds in Glasgow and Brechin? I’m sorry I couldn’t be with you all tonight…’
FFS, I’m getting all weepy just imagining it…
If We Build It, They Will Come…
For decades Scotland was labour, but even in the 1980s Westminster labour was losing it’s shine. The Proclaimers “What do you do” syas it all.
“Pat votes the Scots way
Just like her mother
But South always takes all
Just like her brother
What do you do
When Democracy’s all through
What do you do
When minority means you?”
No longer, we’ve had enough.
BTW I would have pointed to a youtube version of the song if I knew how 🙂
‘BT seem to be a campaign in trouble’
A tweet from David Halliday.
https://twitter.com/DavidJFHalliday/status/447516486559469568/photo/1
Pity his Dad, Jim Halliday passed away last year, he would be enjoying the campaign. Miss him a lot.
Good night.
Holyrood Standards Committee, MSPs Code of Conduct.
I wonder if the wee “Poison Dwarf” has breached any parliamentary codes.
The presiding officer must have heard the comments and surely has to get Lamont up in front of her.
The world is watching this referendum, so surely Lamont must be up on a disrepute charge.
Scottish Labour are nothing more than thugs who think they can say what they want and get away with it.
We’re looking for the backing of strong and brave journalism here.
@ Ian Sisterhood – bit magic darling, but they’ll only be me and mealer (bit ugly chappie) whilst all you glam types are having a ball.
3 weeks until the SNP conference in all places …Aberdeen.. I will bet that there will be no utterly despicable personal attack on an opponent as we have seen today..Yes there will be arguments against opponents but I will be surprised if any one sinks to the depths of SLab..
For those of you who don’t have twitter. I posted this the other night and it got a laugh. I’m trying to convey the atmosphere at the Lab. conference.
Q. How many Labour activists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Those SNP cybernats are bastards!
Well I have just seen my first tweet from someone I assume has voted Labour in the past and their reaction to Lamont’s speech yesterday.
thanks JOHANN LAMONT ..thank you for changing me from no..to YES vote !
Croompenstein:
No surprise about nuclear weapons getting ignored, that must be an embarrassment to lots of Labour folk who used to be staunch CND supporters (maybe they have come over to LfI, we can only hope). I have a friend who used to be a CND man, I’ve got photographic proof, but has quietly let it slip after getting to be an MP then an MSP minister but having to toe the party line of multilateral disarmament. I’ve posted here before about when there was last a Labour conference motion (fringe events don’t count) or discussion on nuclear weapons or when there was any sort of commitment in their manifesto. First thing I heard this morning on the radio was Labour’s intentions to promote a ‘moral economy’, so how does that square with spending billions on Trident?
Oh, and Lamont’s motherhood inferences are absolutely disgusting and should be heartily condemned by the MSM but no doubt will be ignored.
I’ve just enjoyed a wee Talisker which I would normally only have with company in the house, but I’m going to have another wee one so I don’t go to bed angry.
@ Croompenstein
We hear you.
Getting rid of these abominations and their obscene cost is one of the main reasons I will be voting YES in September. That and the fact that we will be able to take the money saved and use it more progressively–like getting the 1 in 2 kids in parts of Glasgow and elsewhere in Scotland out of poverty.
We can, we should and we must rid ourselves of these monstrous weapons.
Song for all the broken hearted SLaber’s
22 March, 2014 at 9:58 pm
Seems like a good time for me to direct any of you generous Wings folk that haven’t yet donated to the YES Pollok campaign base fundraiser here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-pollok-campaign-base
It’s in Johann Lamont’s constituency.
Just sayin’
I’m surprised there is not a focus by the yes campaign on Pollock if it is Lamonts constituency.
She looks like a man.
I think we all know that Lamont doesn’t write her own speeches and is probably not bright enough to understand the words she is saying – Glasgow Uni you need to up your game re English degrees – and therefore I can only think she has been dropped in it big time by her own side.
I knew that the No campaign would get dirty at some point. With so little substance, there was bound to come a time when they would move beyond misinformation to personal attacks.
But I didn’t think it would come this early, or be quite so crass.
Paula I’m up for a wee swally in Brechin, only 20min drive for me though I wouldn’t be drinking and driving of course so my wife would have to come. 🙂
Also know of another couple even closer who although I don’t believe they have ever been on wings would also come.
Don’t be shy, set a date and the people will come!
@GrahamB @Proud Cybernat – thanks for the heads up it just seems incredible to me that faced with the evidence of this monstrous abuse of our country that this is not the main reaaon, fuck it the one and only reason, that we should not be voting yes for independence, personally I don’t care about currency,EU or border control as long as this criminal activity ends..
I don’t think the absence of discussion about nuclear weapons means people don’t care. It’s huge. It’s enormous. It’s maybe to big just to chat about it casually for most people.
If we have an article about it, probably people would open up more. Maybe someone who’s very knowledgeable about the issues would write one?
…. toO big …. toO big ….
It’s the great unspoken..Why is that.. I drive the A77 and A78 every day with my Yes car sticker and FFS I have yet to see another, I wear my Yes wristband to work and it’s again unspoken.. THE biggest reason for independence is to rid ourselves of the imperialists weapons..
Well I’ve just spent 30 minutes scanning over Tweets and I have read about 6 people, 4 from one source, and two others from different sources who all report these 6 people as moving from undecided or even NO to supporting YES! If this is happening tonight all over Scotland, as I suspect it might after Lamont’s latest car crash, then I really do think that the next round of opinion polls are going to be a real eye opener. 🙂
@Croompenstein: I’ve had a few bevvies and I will say it again..no mention of nuclear wepaons or environmental abuse..Our own Stuart Black posted about nuclear pollution on another thread and was incredulous abot the lack of response on this forum..well I must say I am equally deflated about the lack of comment on the subject of nuclear weapons..come on people this is our children’s future.
I’ve commented on the nuclear issue on my blog:
http://bannockburncomic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/better-together-when-standing-apart-or.html
The only reason I haven’t commented on nuclear weapons and environmental abuse on Wings or elsewhere is because those are the exact things I always bring up first when I meet an undecided or No voter. Faslane is the primary motivation I got into independence in the first place. I grew up in Greenock & Gourock, only a few miles from the Holy Loch. I looked out across the water to that beautiful place, knowing that interred there were the unholiest of things on the planet. Warning sirens were placed throughout our town, ostensibly to warn us to go for shelter, but in practice more of a “say your last goodbyes and enjoy the second sunrise.”
Forget the threat of a Russian attack: what chance would we have in the event of a meltdown? I was a wee boy when Chernobyl happened. The radioactive fallout from that disaster meant I grew up drinking soya milk, because dairy was too radioactive. I, and many of my friends in Scotland, grew up without dairy because a meltdown in Ukraine happened. Sheep in Scotland were born with extra limbs, heads, all sorts of mutations, because of Chernobyl. And that wasn’t an attack, that was an accident!
I didn’t fear Nuclear Armageddon nearly as much as I feared basic human error or mechanical failure – because history has shown that we’re more likely to see nuclear disasters happen by accident than design. Combined with the revelations of several safety incidents that happened at Faslane, Coulport etc, believe me I am extremely interested in the nuclear question.
The damned things should be dismantled, every one of them in the world. They are maintained in the hope that they will never be used for their intended purposes, which is so monstrous that I would honestly prefer that only one side was destroyed. If I heard those sirens alerting us of Russian missiles heading our way, what possible solace could I find in thinking “oh well, at least millions of normal Russians will die too?” What kind of hateful way of thinking is that?
You can, arguably, make cases for many things in the UK. You could argue the solidarity/Federalism line, if you really believed there was a strong UK-wide socialist movement that could challenge the Coalition/Labour/UKIP. But you CANNOT argue that disarmament is a remote possibility with the UK. And without Faslane, there is nowhere for Trident to go in Britain: once it’s gone from Scotland, it’s gone for good, unless the Coalition commits seppuku and sinks billions into upgrading or building a nuclear submarine housing facility.
@9:47 – as I said to John King oor Steven Seagull would rip her tae ribbons..weel done cutty sark..
Croompenstein, absolutely, I have friends/acquaintances of the ‘can’t stand Alex Salmond’ ilk whose life is all about marching for all sorts of left-wing causes including unilateral disarmament and I’ve tried to point out that their only chance of getting rid of Trident is a YES vote. I’ve not yet convinced them but I still have the trump card – if they don’t vote YES they will be 100% hypocrites if they ever go on an anti nuclear march again.
My vision at the moment is that the next target should be the disillusioned, don’t vote people who have been left behind by Labour who were meant to support them. They have given up voting because it does not bring them any help. If they can be persuaded to vote in the referendum they will not vote for the status quo which is keeping them in the gutter. Recent news piece on YES campaign in Easterhouse and Provan highlighted this.
@Paula Rose –
Message received and understood.
There’s no telling where the bold Izzard may turn up, but, the grapevine being what it is, I hereby issue this caution, with full confidence that he will be made aware of it:
Mr. Izzard – you are, of course, free to do as you like, but consider yourself warned: if you show face at the Counting House in Glasgow on April 4th, please ensure that your make-up is impeccable.
If it is not? You will be asked to leave – a committee has been formed (the membership of which must remain secret for security reasons) and its decision is final. We trust and hope that you will understand our caution – in the current climate, we simply cannot run the risk of multiple ‘Izzards’ attempting entry.
If you do choose to attend, please identify yourself as you enter the premises – fully-trained staff will assess you against publicly available images, and decide whether or not to allow access. They may, as part of this process, ask for official documentation – a current passport, driving license, or original Birth Certificate should suffice.
Whether or not you decide to attend our social gathering, we thank you for your interest in the future of Scotland, and wish you well in your varied and imaginative efforts to remain one of the UK’s leading ‘personalities’.
Even the people of Shetland are getting Scottish independence, not that I ever doubted they wouldn’t for one second. 🙂
We are hearing that at tonight’s Shetlands Althing debate YES 50% NO 34% DK 16%
Sheep in Scotland were born with extra limbs, heads, all sorts of mutations, because of Chernobyl.
Are you sure that’s true? I wasn’t working in surveillance at the time, but I don’t remember reports of malformations in Scotland being up on the norm. Of course there are always a few, every year.
A colleague of mine did some work on radioactivity in the thyroid glands of sheep grazing in Wales and found some of them were fairly hot. If anything, I wonder about a relationship with a rise in thyroid disease in cats (and maybe in man) as a result of Chernobyl, though I’m not sure if the temporal link is quite right and I’m not an epidemiologist.
I don’t ever recall hearing about an increased incidence of malformations though. I would really appreciate a reference because it’s now my subject and if it happened I ought to know about it.
I don’t remember the Fairlie Roads before Hunterston. I should, but I don’t. I remember looking at Hunterston at night, as a child, and saying it was pretty, it was all lit up like fairy-land. I don’t remember the grown-ups hating it. Though now some people who were a bit older than me are saying they do. (Talking Millport family here.)
Now I look at it and I shudder and I think about Chernobyl and Fukushima. It really brings me out in a cold sweat. I wish we could get rid of it and return the site to nature.
SoS poll results :-
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-new-poll-shows-yes-shift-1-3350563
@Taranaich – You have brought a tear to my eye, you my friend are one of the reasons that I return and comment on this site it is a wonderful forum. I cannot match a lot of posters eloquence and turn of phrase but you are one of the posters that make me return to this forum. obviously Stuart but you and many others make this Wings what it is. The imperialist weapons for us in the West is central but don’t you think that it’s strange that this isn’t the main topic of the indy debate(for us anyway)
@Ian Brotherhood
If he’s coming I’m no going. Unless he is a don’t know.
Taranaich:
The Nuclear obscenity must be our trump card to be used when the opinion polling gap closes to a couple of percentage points. It’s a subject which seems to have been largely ignored so far but needs to be brought out to the fore. We can’t expect the MSM to promote it so it has to be word of mouth persuation.
@Morag
If we have an article about it, probably people would open up more. Maybe someone who’s very knowledgeable about the issues would write one?
One does not need knowledge common sense will tell you that unless you are immune from radiation that everything suffers bar cockroaches who have greatest resilience to its effects.
People rely on so called professionals as if they are indisputable regarding nuclear because of its complexity awfully similar to the financial markets creating a belief of getting the ‘professional’ opinion.
Nuclear energy has one purpose only to create a bomb everything else is a spin off to justify the great expense which is why the the West want to get control of Iranian nuclear aspirations.
That photo of Johann looking like a puppet on a string – they surely don’t think it’s flattering, do they? SoS putting the boot in?
@Thepnr –
!
If anyone could turn him, I’m sure you could. Once he’s amongst friends he’ll see the light.
Cynical Highlander, I was responding to someone who remarked that posters here don’t seem very ready to discuss the nuclear issue. I suggested that they might be more ready to discuss it below the line of an article that actually dealt with the issue.
it IS the issue, we can debate on currency,EU, borders ‘union’ till the sun goes down but this is the issue. F*ck all the pish cut through it and here it is radiation is good for us and Cumbria. I know lots of folks on here feel as strongly but it’s the uninformed we need to talk to and really what’s the defining thing..are we happy that our place in the union is the arse end..
Ooh-er, Rev’s just tweeted something…perhaps the ‘internet’ probs have been sorted?
If so, we can look forward to some objective analysis of what happened today.
Cause, let’s face it folks – we ain’t very ‘objective’, eh?
I don’t disagree. Hence my suggestion that an article about it would be good, so that the BTL discussion could concentrate on the one subject.
(I’d still want independence even if Faslane held nothing but sheep and Hunterston was a wind farm, mind you.)
@Morag
Cynical Highlander, I was responding to someone who remarked that posters here don’t seem very ready to discuss the nuclear issue.
I remember a time when good diseases bad diseases was a taboo issue oh well I’ll go back to my sett.
Croompenstein
Agreed. I remember Tommy Sheridan asking an audience to imagine the message it would send the rest of the world if we got rid of trident.
The posts of Stuart Black and others on the MOD’s dumping/releasing toxic gases has got me thinking: how strongly does this resonate with the public? I know Ian was talking about complacency- how potent do you think the message is?
I want rid of these useless unholy subs and warheads for the sake of my bairns and future generations and I have voted SNP partly with this aim- I do talk to DKs about it and it is ultra frustrating to get a blank expression of apathy. I have no idea how hard Yes are going to be pushing the message. I do see it as the soft underbelly of a labour party in theory committed to multi-lateral disarmament whilst simultaneously committing 100billion to son of trident.
For God’s sake, how many working guys on an average wage’s entire income tax bill for a year would it take to pay for this? 20 million or so? Not sure how accurate that figure is but its the best I can do at 2.15am. Have a guid Sunday team. Tam out.
A divergence of headlines in the SOS:
“Lamont: SNP’s independence campaign is dishonest”
“McLeish: Labour must stop hating Salmond and the SNP”
On the nuclear issue, it could be the single biggest reason for many people to vote Yes. Maybe especially for those who say they are not interested in politics. Because it’s not politics, it’s basic humanity.
In the “can”, “should”, “must” parlance of the Yes campaign, I expect this to be in the “must” category to be forcefully hit home in the final couple of months.
@Morag: Are you sure that’s true? I wasn’t working in surveillance at the time, but I don’t remember reports of malformations in Scotland being up on the norm. Of course there are always a few, every year.
As it happens I’m not sure it’s true, actually, I’m going on hearsay. It’s entirly possible that the usual number of mutations were just given a more sinister hue given the backgrounds. That said, though, I think the precautionary measures alone (the last restrictions on sheep farming were only lifted in 2010) were enough to freak me out.
@Croompenstein: You have brought a tear to my eye, you my friend are one of the reasons that I return and comment on this site it is a wonderful forum. I cannot match a lot of posters eloquence and turn of phrase but you are one of the posters that make me return to this forum. obviously Stuart but you and many others make this Wings what it is. The imperialist weapons for us in the West is central but don’t you think that it’s strange that this isn’t the main topic of the indy debate(for us anyway)
The feeling’s mutual, I assure you. I think the reason nuclear weapons aren’t the main topic for indy debate among Yes voters is, well, it implies there’s a debate at all! I don’t think I personally know a single pro-nuclear weapon (sorry, “deterrent”) Yes voter, and the few No voters just don’t seem to understand the reality of the situation.
I recall one of them said “so what if we got blown up, at least it’d be over in a flash and we wouldn’t feel any pain” – which is, unfortunately, not true: depending on the yield, people in Gourock and Greenock could survive the initial blast, but the resulting radiation would almost certainly doom the population to a lifetime of sickness, if not death in a matter of months or weeks.
The area around Chernobyl which experienced radiation dosage of 40-100 times the normal rate alone encompased the entirety of the Scottish mainland: the central belt got 5-10 times the amount.
@GrahamB: The Nuclear obscenity must be our trump card to be used when the opinion polling gap closes to a couple of percentage points. It’s a subject which seems to have been largely ignored so far but needs to be brought out to the fore. We can’t expect the MSM to promote it so it has to be word of mouth persuation.
Given the recent events in Ukraine and the outrageously irresponsible allusions to a new Cold War, I think it’s crucial. As Westminster gets more nervous about various issues – the referendum is but one to them – they’re going to start relying more and more on outright fear. In their fear over austerity riots and exposure of scandals and cover-ups, they’re going to try and curry up fear over Russia, justifying their toys. I don’t want to return to 1989.
@Morag: I don’t disagree. Hence my suggestion that an article about it would be good, so that the BTL discussion could concentrate on the one subject.
I concur. Heck, if no-one else wants to I could write a wee bit: it would probably be more in the vein of Julie’s social observations. I genuinely think the presence of nuclear weapons on the Clyde has contributed to a sort of psychological trauma to the community of Inverclyde: there are times when it genuinely felt like a Soviet bloc state.
For a great many living in Scotland unfortunately nuclear weapons are of no consequence to them.
They just don’t think about them at all, take yourself into a social club and ask what they think the problem and issues are for an Independent Scotland.
I’d suggest that not one will mention Nuclear Weapons in their top three. CAlso let’s not kid ourselves that on day 1 of Independence Trident will be gone, I very much doubt that.
Probably the best we could hope for is that it will never be replaced. For me personally, Trident although important is not the reason I will vote for Independence.
Welfare, jobs and equality are my reasons.
On the Belfast Telegraph now ….Breaking news..
“Currency union rejection questioned.”….
Good article, the “Tele” often prints unbiased articles that are never mentioned in the Scottish msm.
Re: The photie.
I thought it wis Rosie Huntington Whiteley wi’ Jason Statham at the Oscar’s.
Crivven’s.
@Morag
…..ToO big….ToO big…
Lo siento mucho cariño.
soda
Have you put any thought in to what it might take to make bigotry in Scotland unconstitutional?
Perhaps a Scottish Constitution that compels a sustainable society? 🙂
Paula Rose says
“or should we play the ball not the woman?”
Take her down!
Andrew morton says
“People! Stop doing this!”
Sorry Andrew but reposting it doesn’t help
however I do get what you mean,
I’ve found myself using ,shall we say earthy language to emphasis a point but you are right using it to describe a person is out order, but the nature of this site is to allow people to express themselves without let or hindrance,
however we all should exercise restraint when we’re in a rage, go and have a cup of tea calm down and put extra salt in your porridge if you really have to, 😉
James Forrest says
“My first wee attempt at political blogging ”
Wow! and this is your first attempt? don’t go anywhere stay right there!
Stewart Black says
” no longer a figure of fun, but a blot on our landscape.”
Lets not forget the SNP MSP responsable for roads was hounded out of office for not predicting the worst winter in generations, lets see if the msm have the stomach for taking this unattractive piece of work (and I don’t mean looks) down, she makes Scots look small and petty and incapable of being a mature country (maybe that’s the plan?)
Morag says
“Honestly, Thepnr, why don’t you just leave them to get on with it?”
Thats my opinion as well Morag, I gave up on that site over a year ago, I’ll post now and again when I see something I cant resist commenting on, otherwise Conan seems to handle those people pretty well and is well respected,I think my (shall we say) more robust approach only stirs the cattle up and starts a stampede, while Conan’s more consolatory approach has these creatures eating out of his hand, much respect Conan, I just haven’t got the patience 🙂
TJenny says
“Sticks and stones may break my bones….
but chains and whips excite me.”
Ooh er missus :0
Croompenstien says
“.dunno bout the Irn Bru though I am more partial to a single malt..”
Im sure my wife gives me a can of irn bru when she wants the dusting done 🙂
Arbroath 1320 says
“This is the woman who constantly demands a debate but when one is offered she runs away,”
Couldn’t agree more look at those weasels who have already refused to debate or answer difficult questions or even appear on camera so we don’t get to see their red neck,
my keyboard has only so much life in it before it needs replacing I wont list the people I refer to, you all know who they are!
Croompenstien says
” I am equally deflated about the lack of comment on the subject of nuclear weapons..come on people this is our children’s future..”
For some things there are no words, just a deep unflinching anger that will only be assuaged when we rid ourselves of this abomination!
Steven Seagull says
“I fkn despair.”
Swally?
Ian Brotherhood says
“If you like, we could do a Skype-type arrangement and talk to each other, including the Wingers who are working or otherwise unavailable.”
You read my effin mind, a conference set-up with live video streaming was exactly what I was thinking in fact I’m surprised I haven’t already put it on quarantine d-oh
@Taranaich
I’ve never had anyone tell me that keeping nuclear weapons at Faslane was their reason for voting NO. Getting rid of Nuclear is sort of a given, partly because it is useless except for bragging right for Westminster and partly because of the enormous costs. Intellectually I understand about the dangers, but it is not the same as something that is in your face.
The Bitter Together campaign won’t bring it up because they can’t scare voters into voting NO with it, and the NO Campaign is very vulnerable in terms of defense, because they don’t have any surface vessels in Scottish waters. Remember the last time the Russian fleet was up here in the Moray Firth they had to send up a vessel from Portsmouth?
Many of us feel very strongly about it. We know a YES vote will set us on the way to turning Faslane into a nuclear free naval base. It is part of what drives us to work hard for YES.
Part of the reason I come to this site to pick up on ways to counter the scaremongering put forward by NO with facts and reasons. If I can assuage the fears of DKs I have a better chance attract them to YES. Never had to on this subject, although it might be different if I lived on the Firth of Clyde rather than the Moray Firth.
can we do a caption competition on the picture?
me first
“I never forget a face, but in your case I’d be glad to make an exception.”
Ok ok I know I know Groucho Marx got there first
@Morag… Ah thought they were jist wee things. Oh, im getting confused now. 😀
North brit broon in the Daily Mail, now denying that gazza’s goal against jockland in 96. And engerland’s 0-0 draw against France in 98 were his favourite sporting moments.
Claims to be a top-tartan army acolyte now….Utter mendacity of a sociopath toerag. Worth a read as the english commentators eviscerate him.
It’s skin crawling like Blair’s Jackie Milburn porky. Quite funny tae.
@John King, nae hooch for me bud until the 19th. I cybernat at least 12 hours (now) a day for years. Veteran /foot sojer/donor over decades..It’s a beautiful Spanish morning that I’ll miss, As I need to sleep. Missing time with my beautiful Spanish girlfriend, and amigos.
This is our one chance, and worth it for the next 6 months.
All the Sunday Herald headlines,
http://www.heraldscotland.com/
Must have put a huge effort in to fill the seats in the hall. Better than I expected, but a critical factor for the Press and Media. In her speech she gave a list of issues that resonate with Left Wing Thinking but as they say actions speak louder than words; she and her supporters vote and carry out the exact opposite. The strategy goes on; a hate campaign against Salmond and Sturgeon but little against her real opposition, the Labour MPs at Westminster. They tell her what to do and she buckles under.Will be interesting to read the Press analysis on her speech and their assessment.
buenas noches Steve
What a lovely morning, the sun is shining, polls are moving to yes and the argument against CU blasted by an independent report.
Nice
All the Sunday Herald headlines,
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news
My God!
The Herald is on fire today.
Have they finally decided to back the ‘Yes’ campaign?
Have they realised that Lamont and Labour are finally Scotland’s 21 century equivalent of ‘Toom Tabard’
Excellent!
Sunday Herald an essential read this morning.
Osborne’s case against currency union has been ripped apart by top economist Professor Leslie Young who says the UK Treasury’s case is misleading, unsubstantiated and the reverse of the truth and is relying on lurid collage of fact, conjecture and fantasy in making its argument.
Top EU official Graham Avery says the addition of an Independent Scotland will give the EU more clout by giving the EU another voice on the UN and other international bodies.
ICM fits nicely to the trend. Individually, it’s more a reversion to its own mean following the last one which had a rather outlying No level. Overall, ICM’s Y/N gap has halved since they started polling again (after a break of ~18 months) in September 2013.
No remains volatile, strongly suggesting significant weakness. Yes concrete ~4/10 now.
Sunday Post has uncovered the real “Lady Alba”.
Great wee story.
http://www.sundaypost.com/tv-showbiz/music-theatre/meet-the-face-behind-lady-alba-dr-zara-gladman-1.278262
All we need now is an on air public apology,from Marr,stating he’s a prat who knows feck all.
SoS poll by ICM confirms the Panelbase findings. Yes 45% ; No 55% after excluding DKs (the raw figures were Yes 39; No 46; DK 15)
Some sunshine with your cornflakes:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-new-poll-shows-yes-shift-1-3350563
Tony Little
Are you “Rufus”?
Apologies if I’ve offended but I couldn’t help notice your avatar.
They get bitter, we get better:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26702405
Morning S_S
Another solid 40% result. Parity soon.
After the latest Scottish Labour Party disaster of a conference, I would think YES will get another boost in a week or two when it finally sinks into the soft NOs that they are getting offered nothing if they vote NO.
I also think the polls will show the soft NOs disgust at the tactics being used lately by Johann Lamont and her personal attacks regarding Alex Salmond’s family life.
O/T Andrew Marr at it again. Going through the Sunday paper headlines they actually have the Sunday Post. Never seen the Sunday Post reviewed on BBC before. Only because it has a headline about independence doing away with the monarchy. The polls are obviously having an effect.
The only phrase that comes to mind after reading the Sunday Mail this morning is “Several shades of pish”!!!!!!!!!
After Lamont’s disgraceful performance,which has backfired spectacularly, you wonder,especially as the polls are going our way faster than expected, what even dirtier tricks will be used in the coming months. The positive side of this is,up till now the dirty tricks have only backfired.
Have a look at the top 3 headlines on the herald website!
“Osborne’s case against currency union ripped apart by top economist”
“Top Euro official: Scotland will add clout once in EU”
“Labour’s Lamont gets nasty in fight against SNP”
Blimey, eh?
And the sun is shining..
Wp – re Andrew Marr
did find it hilarious that Marr some how didn’t have copies of Scotland on Sunday or the Sunday Herald on his so called newspaper review, he never does unless the headlines support his own and the BBC’s agenda.
But somehow they had a copy of the Sunday Post, which did have a headline story that fitted in with the Marr/BBC agenda.
But later during the review of papers Martin Nixsmith held up a copy of the SOS article on the polls showing a narrowing. Naturally Labour luvvie Marr brushed it of with the help of Tory Amanda Patel.
Just looking at the way the polls are going and am sensing we are, excepting a black swan event, at the tipping point of what I hope will be a 60%+ YES vote. Well I have bet £60 on it so cannot claim to be completely unbiased.
Interestingly, there is a poll out somewhere below Berwick which suggests that the Tories and Labour are now neck and neck.
April and May could be hugely decisive months in political terms. A Tory party in the lead and the chilling certainty of more of the same with venom would alone be worth a YES majority. Add to that a brin of breathtaking incompetence from the YES side and “Scottish” Labour might make the bookies pay out on my other bets before the referendum.
Blame game coming our way soon?
Miliband for sure will be toast and given what I have extrapolated, he will catch it for the YES vote from Cameron who will negotiate with Salmond to save a veil of succour from what titbits Salmond has already decided to offer.
Anyway, “Scottish Labour” is finished. I hope Alan Grogan and others are ready to step up to the challenge of a very different political map and culture in a new Scotland.
After the performance of Lamont the 19th I am looking forward so much to the resignation of JoLa and her ilk.
Defenestration of all the No parties and their honest reconstruction withing a Scotland with a written constitution with a mosaic of new political parties. To hell with the Westminster model.
“Tony Little
Are you “Rufus”?”
Rufus T firefly indeed 🙂
Sun is shining and the YES Pollock fundraiser is now nicely over halfway, with 21 days left.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-pollok-campaign-base
Their MSP Johann has still to dip into her purse.
I think she was busy yesterday.
caz-m says: “Morning S_S. Another solid 40% result. Parity soon.”
It’s actually a lot better than that. At face value though, yes.
After the euphoria of 2011 when being Yes was acceptable / the flavour of the year, thus ahead, what we have seen since late 2012 No peak, is No lose a very large, over 20 point ‘apparent’ lead almost directly to Yes.
The reason this happened is that it was never really there in the first place. In some polls, namely more ‘anonymous'(e.g. panelbase) ones, you hardly see it at all.
It was caused mainly by people averting their eyes and saying ‘Och, erm, naw’ or ‘Och, a dinnae ken’ just as they said ‘Erm, oh, eh, Labour?’ ahead late 2010/early 2011 when at the back of their minds, that’s not really what they felt. It is a result party of nerves, but more to do with attacks on indy and indy supporters, i.e. ‘Living in an economic fantasy world, all about braveheart, hate the English, want to break up Britain’ etc.
What is happening now is that these people are firming up and saying what they really feel. Of course there are actually a good few moving from No (‘well, now that I think about it having not done so before’) to yes, but a reduction in shy factor driven by a ‘Well if you [unionists] are not being polite, neither am I.’ is a big player here.
What I’m particularly interested in is TNS. It has had a massive shy factor (face to face) that started to erode recently. Still, for the last one, 10% at min are lying and saying DK when actually Yes. The moment these people are truthful, parity will appear. This could happen rather suddenly given recent attacks on Scotland by the pro-union parties / Westminster. The last TNS poll was just before Osballs. Their next one could be very interesting as a result.
Recent shifts mean we are entering the campaign proper with ‘ostensible’ parity, but with ‘deep-down’ in principle yes support actually much higher / No much weaker that polls suggest at face value.
This is reflected in the blind panic of unionist parties. For all their bluff and bluster over their ‘poll lead’, they know it is not as simple as that and things are not looking good for them at all.
WP,
I believe we saw one of the dirty tricks this week, when Anas Sarwar promised to repeal the Sectarian Act if Labour got into power.
Nothing like divide and conquer, eh! Let’s repeal the act so it will allow the knuckledraggers to sing their bile on the terraces, continue their marches, and promote division amongst the populace.
I expect Labour to start shouting this little mantra quite a bit over the next few months. However, something tells me that it will fail quite spectacularly as folk become riled at the very thought of sectarianism being promoted by the Labour Party of all people. Solidarity and Unity …aye right …and here’s Sarwar wanting to create divisions. Says it all…
Bugger the Panda.
Spot on mate
You hit the nail on several of the points that you made there.
Check oot a fascinating piece of our history as a free nation.
The Battle of Teba/la Batalla de Teba.
El Castillo de la Estrella/Castle of the Star. Museum to the Scots Knights. Sir James Douglas died in combat here.
Monument to the brave, and “Robert the Bruce, King of Scots”. Leave a red Rose. The locals appreciate it.
In English/Spanish.
Approx 1hr inland from the Malaga costas.A fiesta with a large Scots contigent takes place every year.
Spectacular, beautiful place. Awesome, I live there.
What I find hilarious is the unionist approach of saying ‘the polls haven’t changed in the last few months – they’re just within margin of error’.
Well, as the ‘apparent’ gap has been steadily closing by ~1 point per month as it has been since late 2012, you can actually say that given a +/-3 point standard MoE for individual polls and get away with it. However, you are just kidding yourself as it doesn’t reflect the long term pattern. Hence even Prof C is now coming clean.
SS
Salami obfuscation.
Each change is within the margin of error of the previous one.
Eventually the Salami is so sliced that less than half is left and each slice was so marginal.
I was listening to the chap on Headlines talking about the Labour party conference and I swithered between whether he was journalist or some part of the Labour party. The glowing account of Brown and Lamont but the lukewarm treatment of Milliband made me wonder if it was some disaffected Brownite.
I was a bit taken aback when Ken thanked Severin Carroll…Doh!…so the answer was it was both. 🙂
Also on the ICM poll was that the Labour vote for YES has risen to it’s highest level, now at 34% of them would vote for Independence.
Come on the good people of Labour, vote YES, for a better life for yourself and more importantly, for your children and their children.
@JLT
Totally agree with you.
Two things must go after Independence,
Nuclear Weapons and Bigotry
That’s two things from a very long list.
Scottish Skier
In my view it is worse than that, many Unionists cling to some outlier poll from whenever and are still convinced it is 29% 65% or something equally distant.
Survation, Panel Base and ICM all have it around the 45% to 55% within about 10 days of each other. Three polls, three polling companies, all the same answer. Hard to argue that they all had exactly the same sampling error.
I notice that Yes have upped the positivity. I donated to Yes the other day and the email I got back confirmed that they have pressed ahead and booked a lot of billboard space (the solitary large billboard in my town saw a Yes poster go up on Monday) and they have pipped No to prime billboard space…so that wee rumour is apparently true.
A 5% swing given what we have achieved is well within our grasp. I wonder what Better Together’s reaction will be. A Yes vote will open a portal to Hell and Scotland would be too poor to afford a Slayer?
Also on the ICM poll was that the Labour vote for YES
These would be the people who say they’d vote/had voted ‘Labour’ yet at the same time when asked if they are satisfied with the Scottish government say ‘Yes’…
Scottish government have been getting 50-60% satisfied since 2011 with only ~1/3 not. Normally, that would be something totally weird. I mean in what democracy does a government get a far higher section of the population satisfied with them than ostensibly prepared to vote for them!
Well, one in which the party of government is not really a party in the conventional sense, but a movement, and that movement is ‘silently’ approved of by a large section of the population, even though they don’t necessarily openly admit it in a direct way.
If ever proof were needed that the Scottish Labour Party diddies had their speeches written by their bosses in England was the one in which it was suggested that it was time to move beyond ‘the Saltire and the plaid’.
Plaid is what uneducated people (usually non-scots) call tartan. A plaid is the big wrap around that pipe majors wear.
So long Labour…you won’t be missed in the new Scotland.
Thought for the Day.
Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon shall have a love child.
An Independent Free Scotland.
Also on the ICM poll was that the Labour vote for YES
Note the ICM was sampled 17th-21st March. That’s a bit tight for the Devo Nano fallout to have had a big impact (likewise no Labour conference effect of course). These things tend to filter through over the weeks following as people weigh up their views based on newly ‘established’ circumstances.
@Robert Kerr.
That’s just daft.
@Roughbounds 10.20.The Plaid is a wrap around blanket,
it is wore by all Pipers ( not just Pipe Majors )I hope
that helps.
Nuclear weapons are an obscenity and should be removed. The potential impact on the world is horrific.
However people are dying in real wars and interventions so for me being dragged into those by Westminster remains a key reason for voting YES.
Bigotry dies the moment WE cease to tolerate it.
Glasgow sat April 5th 11 am
http://springwalk.org/
@Bugger(the Panda)
“…Add to that a brin of breathtaking incompetence from the YES side and “Scottish” Labour..”
Do you mean NO side???
O/T John King, take it you are a big Marx Bros. fan like me ?
Re. the “sustainable society” I mentioned earlier. That would, of course, require a sustainable economy and a sustainable environment. I don’t really see any of the unionist parties offering policies that could possibly achieve either, or are even traveling in that direction.
@steven Seagull says:
Check oot a fascinating piece of our history as a free nation.
The Battle of Teba/la Batalla de Teba.
The late sadly-missed David R Ross went to Spain to check out the background to the Battle of Teba, and covered it in his excellent book On the Trail of Robert the Bruce.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trail-Robert-Bruce-David-Ross/dp/0946487529/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395571900&sr=1-9&keywords=david+r+ross
David’s On the Trail of William Wallace book is also excellent.
m.youtube.com/watch?VDXomLMVUA
O/T If you have a spare hour this is worth watching (apologies if its been posted before).
If this link doesn’t work just get Diomhair Secrets on you tube
Absolutely disgusting personal attack from Lamont yesterday, but unfortunately not surprising. Positive news from the ICM poll, though.
And just a thought, is this the first time we’ve seen SoS and the Sunday Herald with positive Yes stories on their front pages on the same day?
@HandandShrimp says:
A Yes vote will open a portal to Hell and Scotland would be too poor to afford a Slayer?
I fear Johann opened a ‘Scottish’ Labour Portal to Hell in Perth yesterday …
Re. Diomhair Secrets. I haven’t watched it all yet, but there was already a huge clanger dropped in the intro. The presenter referred to breaking up the country of Britain. I will watch the rest, but am I just being petty?
Clootie
Aye
Oops!
Sun over the yardarm here. Will be ok in a few mins.
Thanks
CameronB “am I just being petty?” Not at all, when you think of the reaction to the ER II. post boxes its understandable.
“Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon shall have a love child.
An Independent Free Scotland.”
Does moira know? 🙂
@CameronB
Yes, I think so.
A country is perfectly legitimately defined as a legal entity and in that sense the UK is one insofar as Westminster controls our foreign relations and treaties signed by Westminster are binding on all
There are other definitions, naturally: these are all “big words” and therefore slippery
O/T John King, take it you are a big Marx Bros. fan like me ?”
Who doesn’t know Rufus T Firefly and his wonderful humour? “go and never darken my towels again” or more relevant to the current subject,
“those are my policies and if you done like them I have more” 🙂
D-oh don’t I meant
Fiona
Scotland is a country but not a nation as it does not have a recognised sovereignty.
The nation is the UK etcetera+??
Purcell story in the SoS!
Wonder if he’s planning a comeback?
@Thepnr
Save your time. What is the Scottish readership of the Torygraph online? Why waste your time arguing with folk who have no vote?
That is why I gave up CiF on the Guardian, arguing with ignorant people who have no vote who are 18months behind the argument curve is pointless and energy and time sapping.
Save your energy and put it somewhere it might influence those who have a vote. Knuckle dragging little Englanders of the type that infest the Torygraph are not there to be persuaded out of their bubbles anyway. Anymore than we in here are wanting to be persuaded to vote No.
Watching Sunday Politics.
Is Lamont on drugs?
I can’t understand anything she is saying!
The mirror scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5lU52aWTJo
😀
Muscleguy
Possibly pointless but I’ve been having fun wrestling a couple of ‘pigs’ over on the Spectator. I find ‘feeding rope’ to be very therapeutic. 🙂
The great Greg Moodie on Milliband, it’ll keep you going until the Rev posts a new wan.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/03/23/untied-with-labour/
And the Rev posts a new wan, timing is everything. 😉
Hi Cameron
I did answer your Fiona Apple question yesterday…just a wee bit late.
I looked at the photograph heading this topic and thought, Labour and Better Together could start a sister site to, “Wings Over Scotland”. They could call it, “Whinges Over Scotland”, and have it edited by the Reverend I.M. Jolly. BTW: I read this morning that the Royal College of GPs has warned of a funding crisis and increased demand for care means, General Practice, as patients know it in UK is, “Under severe threat of extinction”. So much for Johann Lamont’s claims of shared wealth and assets. We also have news that the English Further Education fees are now just breaking even as student loans are not being repaid due to graduates incomes being so low as to never reach a level for repayment. After all McDonald’s can’t afford to pay their former graduates more.
“Their ears are cocked to the low sweet music of hope”
Superb essay James, thank you. Now head down and give us more. Bookmarked… 🙂
HandandShrimp
Hi, I did see your reply, I just didn’t think Fiona Apple was important enough to expect a reply. Hope that isn’t a disappointment. 🙂
To be serious though, I think that clip describes the situation we face today, if you consider Streisand to be the economy, Officer Barbrady the media and Fiona Apple the British state(red and blue Tory tag-team).
Scottish Skier
‘In my view it is worse than that, many Unionists cling to some outlier poll from whenever and are still convinced it is 29% 65% or something equally distant.’
Believe me, mate. That is VERY true! I work with some folk who are utterly convinced that a ‘No’ vote is in the bag. I’ve heard all the excuses, even to the point, that they are now saying that ‘Come on, James, the union isn’t as bad as you make it!’
Without going into the positives and negatives of the UK (we know what they are …probably even better than the Unionists! In fact, I could probably make a better case for the Union than half of the Unionists!)
But, this is how twisted their logic is. They are convinced it is going to be a ‘No’ vote, and yet, have said that they intend to take the Friday off if it is heading towards a ‘Yes’ victory (I’m assuming they intend to hide from me). But what a strange mindset to have! I just don’t get it! Are they really that embarrassed, or dislike Scotland that much.
For the Nationalists, if it a ‘No’ vote, then we just groan, then sigh, and get on with it. But god help these die hard Unionists if it is a ‘Yes’ vote (and looking very much likely so). Tantrums, toys out of prams, tears …can see it now …and I know a good portion of it will be directed at me (because yep …I ended the Union …just me …not the other 2.4 million that also voted Yes …just me! Yep …happy days at work come the 19th of September.)
I see the nuclear debate earlier dragged in nuclear power to the equation. I would leave that to the side and concentrate on the weapons. There is much greater consensus there, and much more moral high ground. For the record I have nothing against nuclear power as long as it is properly managed, i.e. not in private hands where profit becomes paramount.
Johann Lamont has just been on BBC Sunday Politics ( Scotland) vehemently denying that her speech was a personal attack on Alex Salmond!
Well – she would wouldn’t she!
Personally, I wouldn’t trust a single syllable that was uttered from the lips of that woman!
Johann Lamont has just been on BBC Sunday Politics ( Scotland) vehemently denying that her speech was a personal attack on Alex Salmond!
Well – she would wouldn’t she!
Personally, I wouldn’t trust a single syllable that was uttered from the lips of that woman!
No idea why that was posted twice? Using an iPad – not my usual PC? ????
I can’t think Lamont’s rant is going to endear her to women, whether mothers or not. As a mother it leaves me livid. Politicians in her mould are letting us down, not representing us. People want, and deserve, information from their politicians on which to make their decision, not vile personal attacks.
Lamont, those advising her, and the Labour Party, need to take themselves off for a good think if they are to have any relevance come 19th September.
Heather McLean – Havnt seen Sunday politics Scotland
but can imagine her denying everything she said. As she didn’t write any of her speech and just read it out.
Funnily enough I’ve seen a ‘word cloud’ on Facebook article and its nothing but SNP and Alex Salmond (SNP mentioned 30 times, Alex Salmond mentioned 17 times)
@CameronB
The problem with wrestling pigs is as always that you both get covered in shit and the pig enjoys it.
Muscleguy
I’m aware of that, but I just try to keep a level head and feed out the rope. The reactionary hatred this can sometimes produce, is then on show for all to see.
I am not important in the debate but if I can help to open someone’s eyes, I’m happy to wallow in the muck all the way to September. 🙂
P.S. I know that face to face will win this and not debating on the predominantly foreign MSM platforms, but I imagine it must surely become embarrassing at some point, for these international publications to continue supporting such hatred. Support through very partisan moderation and censorship of credible and polite pro-Yes comment.
I note that whenever possible someone other than Johan lamont is trundled out to front the No campaign. This is sensible because she is a disaster. Negative, whining, snide and overall hateful she is such a bad advert for Scotland. As she is beholden to the Party in London she probably cares nothing for the horrible image she portrays.
What a let down.
Bugger [the Panda]
Don’t know where you get that from the UK is not a nation its a State, Scotland and England are nations, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is a Provence.
Or so I was taught at Skool!!!
@Heather McLean says:
No idea why that was posted twice?
Hiccups!
Jingly Jangly
You are correct a State (and in one too) not a Nation.
Incidentally NI is a Province of England, the UK or what?
I know that at the signing of the Treaty of Union, Ireland was considered by the English Parliament to be a Province of England. As I understand it, the Eire was formed the entire island Province went independent and the Northern 6 Counties of Ulster rejoined but in what relationship and to what?
Genuine question.
With respect to women not liking Alex Salmond, I seem to remember a poll of all the party heads and hangers on, and if I remember correctly none of the politicians were liked by women….I could be wrong, but Alex Salmond did better than the David Cameron, Ed Milliband, Alistair Darling etc. So, to me, that is just another “made up” soundbite against the FM. Sorry, can’t remeber where I saw it, but I actually think it was Wings.