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Wings Over Scotland


For their eyes only

Posted on April 14, 2014 by

Alert readers can’t have failed to notice a certain reticence on the part of Scottish Labour to clarify key aspects of their shambolic proposals for further devolution in the event of a No vote.

(In response to our latest enquiries, genetically-programmed Central Scotland list MSP Siobhan McMahon sent a Wings reader a letter at the weekend directing them to the “Devo Nano” report – which doesn’t address any of the issues that were actually raised by her constituent – and saying “I believe that I have now adequately responded to your queries and have nothing further to add.”)

lamontheadgrab

But it turns out there ARE people they’re prepared to tell the truth to.

“The North-East has nothing to fear from ‘devo max’ for Scotland, Labour’s leader north of the border has insisted.

Johann Lamont rejected suggestions that Scotland is poised to gain a huge economic advantage over its neighbouring region, in return for voting ‘no’ to independence.

Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe ‘propaganda’ about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh.”

Those lines come from an article yesterday in County Durham and Teeside local newspaper the Northern Echo. And in sharp contrast to the type of interviews she gives for a Scottish audience, Ms Lamont was keen to be absolutely crystal-clear on the matter:

“Scotland has a fixed budget. Our choice is about how we spend it. I can understand people in the North-East hearing about the fantastic things going on in Scotland, but that other side of it is never spoken about.

Scotland will not be getting more money, it will simply be accountable for raising more of its money. I hope that dispels some myths.”

It’s particularly interesting to read that line in the context of the “Devo Nano” report, whose executive summary states on page 6 that:

“Labour will give the Scottish Parliament the power to raise around £2 billion more in revenues beyond the recent Scotland Act.”

Now, that phrase doesn’t actually, in the strictest technical sense, conflict with what Ms Lamont told the Northern Echo. But the phrase “around £2 billion more in revenues” seems hard to interpret in any other way than as an implication to Scots that the Scottish Parliament would have more money to spend under Labour’s plans, when what Ms Lamont’s comments to her English audience make plain is that it would have the same amount of money as now, but would simply be raising it in a different way – direct from Scottish taxpayers rather than via Westminster.

This, of course, won’t be news to readers of this site, as it’s precisely what we’ve been telling you for over a year now – namely that the “more powers” being hinted at by the Unionist parties in return for a No vote aren’t “powers” at all, but merely an increase in bureaucracy and administrative costs (leading to inevitable cuts in public services), with no benefit to either Holyrood or the people of Scotland whatsoever.

Labour’s increasingly panicky attempts to evade close scrutiny of their proposals, and the media’s dogged determination to turn a blind eye to the double-decker-bus-sized holes in their logic and coherence, serve only to highlight that reality.

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257 to “For their eyes only”

  1. MochaChoca says:

    “Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe “propaganda” about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh

    Whit?? Is it her own output that she is branding ‘propoganda’ and urging them not to believe?

    It’s certainly not going to be the YES side bigging up the idea that a NO vote will see “extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh”.

  2. Dougthedug says:

    It’s as I’ve always said, devolved taxation is just a different way to collect bits of the same Westminster calculated block grant.

    Nothing has changed between Labour’s current proposals and the Scotland Act 1998. The Scottish Parliament has always had the power to increase its revenue by by hitting taxpayers with tax hikes.

    If it leaves taxes at the same level as they are in the rest of the UK it simply gets the Barnett Formula or whatever will replace it.

    Good to hear Labour finally saying it though.

  3. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    What an idiot she is. I don’t think she could handle a classroom, never mind a parliament.

    Did she not have the sense to keep wheest until after the referendum?

    But it is good that we have her down on record saying like it is (as we have always known).

    Vote No, get nothing (at best) or worse.

  4. Dinnatouch says:

    Aye, but Ms Lamont has a history of fabricating stories, so how do we know when she’s telling the truth?

  5. goldenayr says:

    MochCocha

    Spot on.Time to plaster it everywhere.

    “Lamont Blasts No Campaign Promises of Further Powers ‘PROPAGANDA’.”

    Now there’s a headline I’d like the Record to lead with.

  6. CameronB says:

    As I said the other day, British Labour are a bunch of Muppets = inhuman fabrications animated by external forces. Most probably dark ones. Astonishing!

    Katorga

  7. Rod Robertson says:

    After this expose Stu ,I am sure as we speak the entire Scottish media will be tracking down Ms Lamont to confront her with these new revelations.
    BBC News will headline this contradiction from the SLAB.
    In other news Lionel Messi is having a medical in Maryhill ahead of signing for the famous Partick Thistle.

  8. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    Numpty would be the best description, I’ve came across, to describe Lamont

  9. Roboscot says:

    ‘Scotland will not be getting more money, it will simply be accountable for raising more of its money’

    That statement needs to be spread as far and wide as possible. It is made, after all, by the leader of the ‘Scottish Labour Party’.

  10. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Dinnatouch says:
    Aye, but Ms Lamont has a history of fabricating stories, so how do we know when she’s telling the truth?

    Answer: When her lips aren’t moving.

  11. Giving Goose says:

    I can’t quite decide what Johann Lamont actually wants or even if she fully understands what it is she actually stands for.
    Forget all the Social Justice sound bites. It most definitely isn’t that.
    Trying to tease out the truth is extremely difficult. Not being a Labour politico, I can’t seem to get into the mind set.
    I do recognise one thing for certain and that is that she is a poor politician. Her skillset is limited which strongly suggests that she isn’t in control of her brief but is having her strings pulled by others, i.e. London.
    If that is the case, then London Labour is being dishonest to both Scotland and the North of England.
    We shouldn’t be surprised.

  12. goldenayr says:

    Could we get that quote on a big billboard on the M8?

  13. goldenayr says:

    Has anyone else noticed that whenever there are probs with the site,that the wee ‘V’ logo disappears to be replaced with a blue fudged one?

  14. Desimond says:

    To Ms J. Lamont

    Dear Johann

    I do not agree with you.

    Regards
    Ms J Lamont

  15. Grouse Beater says:

    The two faces of anglophile politicians.

    They’d sell Scotland for a handful of silver- oh, wait.

    They have.

  16. Morag says:

    As I understood the Calman proposals, the intent was to reduce the income tax rate for people living in Scotland by something like 10 percentage points, and give the Scottish government the power (i.e. force them) to set a Scottish income tax of 10% to make up the difference and equalise tax rates again.

    This seemed to be completely pointless, necessitating a huge amount of infrastructure to produce exactly the same tax take as before. The only purpose seemed to be to make the Scottish government nominally responsible for setting an income tax rate. Presumably in the hope that tax-payers would start vilifying Holyrood for doing that.

    It appeared that Barnett would be unaffected so that not only would the tax take from the punters remain the same, the block grant and so the amount of money available for Scottish spending, would be unchanged. Captain Pointless.

    However, the Scottish government could set a rate that wasn’t 10%, leading to Scottish residents eitehr paying less tax than everyone else, or more. What I was unclear about was how Barnett would be affected by that. Presumably it must be, because otherwise why set a tax rate at all? Why not just let everyone in Scotland pay 10% less and pocket the block grant anyway? So if a tax cut resulted in Scotland getting less spending money, a tax increase would presumably result in it getting more. I think.

    It’s all damn complicated, and that’s only the basic rate. What about the other rates? I can’t say I ever really understood it beyond the obvious fact that it was a Red Queen special – you run as hard as you can to stay in the same place.

    Now JoLa comes along and complicates it further. Yes you can raise the upper rate. But only along with the lower rate. No you can’t decrease rates. Ever, or only below the rate in England?

    At about this point I say, fuck it Johann, we’ll just take all the power to set all the tax bands and indeed re-design the entire tax system to suit ourselves, wouldn’t that be easier?

    But if she’s really confirming that all this is just a hugely complicated, bureaucratic and expensive way to keep Scotland in the same place with the same Barnett block grant, I think this needs to be all over the Scottish press, pronto.

  17. Desimond says:

    This is truly incredible.

    People in England went to listen to Johann Lamont?
    Im astonished.

  18. Clootie says:

    I quite sure we will raise more in Scotland under Labour’s proposal. However I think we will have less to spend as the review of Barnett slashes the budget.

    The speech in England reminded me of the Bruce Forsyth line on come dancing “you are my favourite”

    Labour is going to save everyone from the Tories by becoming Tories?

  19. heedtracker says:

    Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe ‘propaganda’ about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh.” Part of their domain gets told one thing and here in Aberdeen…

    My MP Anne Begg replied to my Labour lashings of devo so vote no question which begins, ” Thank you for your interest in Labour’s proposals to extend and enhance devolution for Scotland within the United Kingdom.

    The Labour Party is the Party of devolution, Keir Hardy, pooling and sharing across the whole country” etc

    On income tax, Ms Begg states that there is “scope to go further” with the Scotland Act 2012 but on Labour tax devo,

    “The Scottish Parliament could, using the powers of the Scotland Act and our extension to their scope, chose to lower income tax, below the UK level, across all income tax bands.”

    “Equally, it would be possible to use the same power to increase tax above the UK level across all income tax bands”

    “Alternatively, if the Scottish Parliament wished to exercise greater flexibility between bands, Labour’s proposals mean that it would be empowered to do so by applying Scottish Progressive Rates of Income Tax to increase either the higher or additional rates of tax.”

    It was very nice of Ms Begg to reply but she is clearly directly contradicting Labour in Scotland leader Jojo Lamont. Also Willie Young does not reply to any of his constituents as he is too busy, nae doot.

  20. goldenayr says:

    Desimond

    They thought she was the warm up for Billy Connolly.They were disappointed ‘The Big Yin’ didn’t appear but had a laugh anyway.

  21. Dougthedug says:

    Morag:

    All the devolution schemes are essentially the same and once you cut through the smoke and mirrors it’s quite simple.

    If Scotland sets the same tax rates as the rest of the UK then it gets a total sum equal to the Barnett Formula block grant as the top up block grant from Westminster on top of the taxes collected by the Scottish Parliament is calculated to do this.

    If Scotland reduces the tax rates below UK rates then it effectively gets less than the Barnett formula as the top up block grant is unchanged.

    If Scotland increases the tax rates above UK rates it can keep the difference as again the top up block grant remains unchanged.

    The principle throughout is that central government funding to Scotland remains the same.

    Less taxation in Scotland which is a loss to HMRC is compensated for by an effective drop in the overall amount available to spend on public services. In effect it is a subsidy to taxpayers from the block grant.

    More taxation in Scotland is considered a local tax and is a political risk taken by any Scottish Government.

  22. bookie from hell says:

    darlington,darling

    conspiracy?

  23. Jamie Arriere says:

    My God, I can’t past the first sentence – any idea that this is remotely close to “Devo Max” seriously needs a check-up from the neck up!

  24. Grouse Beater says:

    People in England went to listen to Johann Lamont?

    You’ll be relieved to learn some don’t.

    “If Scotland wants independence I say it should have it, but some your opposition MPs are … well, weird.”

  25. Colin Dunn says:

    “I can understand people in the North-East hearing about the fantastic things going on in Scotland, but that other side of it is never spoken about.”

    The ‘fantastic’ things that she admits are going on in Scotland are presumably free prescriptions, personal care, no tuition fees, etc – all that universalist ‘something for nothing’ that she rails against when she’s in Scotland. There’s a surprise.

  26. Grouse Beater says:

    On BBC London radio yesterday, Severin Carrell, Guardian’s man in Scotland, could not get his mind around what he sees as a contradiction: Sturgeon appealing to Labour voters to vote for Scotland’s right to real powers and so force their party to return to them.

    “I can see what’s she’s up to, [“up to”?] but I can’t see dyed-in-the-wool Labour supporters doing that.”

    He did not appear too understand that the SNP has embraced all old Labour’s principles while new Labour has abandoned them to embrace the disaster that is the freemarket.

    Interviewed, Carrell moved from reporter to commentator, or you might regard his freedom to speak his mind more journalist from afar to Marr.

  27. CameronB says:

    Pardon me whilst I allow myself to enjoy a state of naivety for a brief moment. Is there no mechanism for censuring public servants who are caught misleading the public, so blatantly and so, well, publicly?

    What are we to think of the BBC/MSM cabal that has encouraged this sorry state of affairs?

    Katorga

  28. cirsium says:

    Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe ‘propaganda’ about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh

    Ms Lamont blows the Labour/Better Together Devo-whatever ploy out the water. What glorious incompetence!

  29. G H Graham says:

    Put it another way; Labour’s proposal to expand the scope of devolution will have the effect of making Scotland MORE like the rUK rather than different from it.

    Why? Easy. When you spend more resources collecting the same money, you have to cut costs from somewhere else or start collecting it from somewhere new.

    But where from. Ahh, yes; the NHS, prescriptions, OAP bus passes, university students, Community Charge, etc. Get the idea?

    In a twist of irony beyond understanding by the below average intelligence of Lamont & her Labour cronies, Devo {Insert meaningless suffix here} will simply make Holyrood behave more & more like Westminster.

    And when there’s hardly a fag paper between them, it might be argued, why bother having a separate Scottish government at all.

    You can now see where this is going right?

    Hello ! Wakey, wakey!

  30. Papadox says:

    The only problem BT or HMG have here is that the shit being fed to UK, sorry England by the MSM and EBC is a completely different load of shit that MSM (Scotlandshire) & EBC (Scotlandshire) are feeding the daft thick jocks.

    Wings is the problem, we see and here both sets of crap which are diametrically opposed to each other.

    Result they: Milliband needs the Geordies told the daft jocks are getting SFA and who is best to tell them, the leader of the daft jocks. Confused, we are all ment to be? they can’t remember either, they just make it up as they go along.

    Democracy as practiced by the mother of parliaments! Hope the proud no Scots are really proud of their superiors. Aye better the GITHER.

  31. msean says:

    There won’t,just a guess mind you,be a lot of Scottish Labour voters that read the Northern Echo,well spotted.

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    I notice that Johann is a lot more coherent when she is telling people what they are not getting.

    Indeed the old line “What are ye wanting? Because whatever it is, youse are no getting it” could have been written for her.

  33. galamcennalath says:

    The Unionists are just so full of bovine excrement, it beggars belief.

    They spend years on Calman, dreaming up devo-plus-a-wee-bit. They the SNP formed a majority government in 2011. This, of course, was never expected to happen. Given that it had happened, and that SNP government intended to have an Independence Referendum, what was the point of sealing their devo-plus-a-wee-bit in the Scotland Act 2012 if they were serious about fighting the Referendum campaign by offering even more powers? Obviously they entered the campaign with absolutely no intentions of offering devo-anything-more.

    Devo-more offers are nothing but late summer mist in the morning, gone by lunchtime.

    Of course Labour can’t coherantly tell us what they are offering, because saying it’s nothing, would be telling the truth. Telling the truth isn’t part of the mushroom fertiliser they feed to we Scots.

    An English audience, then they can be a wee bit more honest.

  34. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Oops!

    I feel a wee e-mail coming on here to my favourite Labour M.S.P. I wonder if she will be able to confirm to me whether Scotland, after a NO vote, will be able to raise, as is clearly suggested on page 6 of their executive summary, around £2 Billion more in addition to the block grant or will the Scottish government just end up with the same amount of money as it has now as Lamont clearly suggests will be the case to the Northern Echo.

    Come to think about it I might get a more honest answer out of my M.P. instead. I mean after his recent “enlightenment” concerning Trident not being a negotiating tool as it is not on the negotiating table perhaps Mr Mundell might be more in tune with the electorate to provide the final and decisive answer here. 🙂

    I think this could very well be a case of “light blue touch paper and stand well back!” 😛

  35. DaveDee says:

    Came accross this animated video on BBC Scotland Webiste.

    Scottish independence: What’s the defence debate all about

    Absolutely disgraceful, didn’t think that the BBC’s coverage could sink any lower but they have managed it with this (Sorry if posted before, had a look but couldn’t see it)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27002723

    .

  36. David says:

    Hats off to JoLa! She’s even made Morag swear, first time I’ve ever seen that in the comments on this site! 🙂

  37. Andrew Morton says:

    @CameronB 12:54

    ‘Pardon me whilst I allow myself to enjoy a state of naivety for a brief moment. Is there no mechanism for censuring public servants who are caught misleading the public, so blatantly and so, well, publicly?’

    There is a mechanism. It’s called the Honours System.

  38. Andrew Morton says:

    I’ve just sent the following email off to my Labour MP Fiona O’Donnell:

    ‘Dear Fiona,

    I have listened to speeches by Johann Lamont about Labour’s new Devolution proposals and read many articles in the press about the substantial new powers promised to the Scottish Parliament as a result.

    You can imagine my surprise when I read an article in the today’s Northern Echo containing an interview with Ms Lamont which appears to directly contradict those speeches.

    I quote,

    ‘THE North-East has nothing to fear from “devo max” for Scotland, Labour’s leader north of the border has insisted.

    Interviewed by The Northern Echo, Johann Lamont rejected suggestions that Scotland is poised to gain a huge economic advantage over its neighbouring region, in return for voting ‘no’ to independence.

    Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe “propaganda” about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh, saying: “We shouldn’t let people divide us.”‘

    When Ms Lamont assured us that the party’s new proposals contained an offer of substantial new powers I naturally took it that she was being sincere.

    Can you confirm to me that the new proposals are not just ‘propaganda’?

    I look forward to your reply with anticipation.

    Kind regards

    Andrew Morton’

    I am indeed looking forward to her reply with anticipation.

  39. Macart says:

    O/T This’ll make Johann’s day.

    https://twitter.com/TUsforYes

    Enjoy.

  40. Famous15 says:

    The leader of the Labour Party in Scotland feels at ease reassuring people in North East England that Devo Max is a sham but why is she talking like this behind our back? What am I missing?

    Think about those who voted for her in Glasgow,are they children of a lesser God? Are they being duped or patronised or being made fun of? I am truly perplexed.

  41. haud on the noo says:

    Andrew et al,


    Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe “propaganda” about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh, saying: “We shouldn’t let people divide us.”

    The women is an utter buffoon (well we knew that already). From whence cometh this propaganda of which she speaks ?

    I lurk but don’t post much as I’d get battered by Rev for swearing..

  42. kalmar says:

    I am indeed looking forward to her reply with anticipation.

    As well you might! Considering that the definition of anticipation is “looking forward to something” 🙂

  43. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @haud on the ono says.

    Lurking is allowed, just say ‘NO’ to furtive lurking tho. 🙂

  44. velofello says:

    Hi Johann,it’s called the internet,and news spreads fast there,so the days of telling wee porkies when you are away from the home patch doesn’t work anymore.Ach well, it is what we expect of you,a porky teller.

  45. chalks says:

    When you get in the mud with a pig, you get dirty and the pig gets happy.

  46. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    What she said was Labour’s proposals are just a load of crap. A desperate attempt to hoodwink the people of Scotland into believing that their proposals would make the slightest bit of difference to fairness or prosperity.

  47. haud on the noo says:

    kendo : never could say NO.

  48. Tamson says:

    Rarely can Salmond’s “Labour say one thing in public and another thing in public” maxim have been demonstrated more clearly.

  49. Flower of Scotland says:

    @Andrew Morton. I hope you don’t mind that I have copied your letter and sent it to the three MSPs that I already contacted about Labours Dev. Plans.ie Jayne Baxter, Claire Baker and Richard Simpson. I’m sure they will be overjoyed to hear from me again, especially when I had to e mail them twice each to get a reply. I’m also waiting in anticipation now for a reply!

  50. Notthchiel says:

    My interpretation on the slab devo income tax
    Proposals having a supposedly neutral outcome
    On the Scottish gov tax take , with the “balancing”
    Reduction in Barnett funding, is that this is
    Not quite as it appears :
    The assumption being that the number of
    Tax payers remains constant. However, this is
    Unlikely for a number of reasons and one of
    These reasons is the neo/lib policy from Westminster
    Of increasing the personal tax allowances
    And reducing tax credits. This reduces the
    Number of basic rate tax payers and in Scotland
    I am fairly sure that this will disproportionally
    Disadvantage us as we probably have a higher
    Proportion of basic rate taxpayers than ruk.
    There lies the Westminster tax trap for the
    Scottish gov as Westminster retains control
    On tax thresholds etc.
    Beware of the same trap in the Tory devo
    Proposals to come.
    A yes vote is the only way forward for our country
    As Westminster will relentlessly devise budgets
    To squeeze an snp gov , whether Tory or labour.

  51. call me dave says:

    When NO doesn’t mean NO… Déjà vu all over again.

    According to the Herald newspaper, Mr Hammond said in an interview ahead of the speech that, in the event of a “Yes” vote: “You can’t go into any negotiation with things that are non-negotiable”.

    ‘Nothing non-negotiable’

    So I take it CU is a goer then!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27024682

  52. Mary Bruce says:

    The best bit about Johann “the gift that keeps on giving” Lamont and her constant stream of gaffes is that she is here to stay; there’s no way the Labour party can get rid of her before the referendum. To do so would be an admission of failure, HQ in London must be tearing their hair out.

    So expect more of the same, she just can’t keep her gobby gob shut and will keep on tripping herself up. With a campaign build on deceit and misinformation it is impossible for her not to. Tee hee.

  53. HandandShrimp says:

    It is almost as if there is half a dozen different narratives going on.

    There are businessmen and politicians talking about what would be sensible negotiating positions. Johann and her Red Paper, that means one thing here and another in rUK, BT still sticking to their Project Doom, the Unions increasingly hedging their bets and wanting more positive messages and some commentators in England wanting shot of us.

    One of the joys on being on the Yes side is that independence is pretty straight forward.

  54. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Well that’s it done, the dirty deed has been completed. Next time Elaine Murray opens her e-mails there will be a *ahem* wee e-mail from yours truly. 😛

    It was a bit long winded as is my style don’t you know so I’ll not bother boring everyone here with the details. *PHEW* 🙂

  55. Martin says:

    I’ve just questioned my local MSP about this and why exactly anyone in their right mind would vote for such a plan. Let the breath holding commence!

  56. Helena Brown says:

    Sorry for coming on all O/T but BBC are quoting the Government in Westminster as saying that there will still be negotiations over Trident. Sounds like they are still trying to cause trouble to me.

  57. haud on the noo says:

    Labour in London and Scotland for that matter have known for a long time just how incompetent she is. The big question is why she is still there. Incompetence by London, or they simply just don’t care ?

    It is just very odd as she could have been changed a long time ago. Or do they actually believe the crap they are coming out with ? Really ?

  58. Training Day says:

    Just read the article. The woman actually ends her interview with the assertion that ‘hope (in the form of a No vote) will triumph over grievance (in the form of a people choosing self-determination)’.

    She really is beyond contempt, both for her crass stupidity and her pathetic subservience to her party’s soulless message.

  59. MajorBloodnok says:

    @call me dave

    And all that nonsense from the MoD top brass that NATO wouldn’t accept Scotland because it doesn’t have or won’t host nuclear weapons.

    Well, according to Wikipedia, Croatia and Albania joined NATO in 2009 and I don’t think they have nukes. So would Hammond and his self-important MoD minions care to explain how they got in?

  60. Morag says:

    Hi Johann,it’s called the internet,and news spreads fast there,so the days of telling wee porkies when you are away from the home patch doesn’t work anymore.Ach well, it is what we expect of you,a porky teller.

    That’s not right. She wasn’t telling porkies away from the home patch at all. She told the truth away from her home patch, possibly not realising that her words would make it back to the restless natives.

  61. Minty says:

    The main problem with replacing JoLa is that they’ve no-one to replace her with. SLab is not exactly hoatching with talent, and there hasn’t been a stampede of takers from those with safe Westminster seats to come back and take the job on.

  62. goldenayr says:

    Did anyone catch the labour party political broadcast/SNP are backstabbing opportunists programme on the beeb?
    “Referendum Connections” hosted by that impartial unionist Looeze Whicht.
    The only person they could find to talk up Lamont was…Michael Kelly!
    Quelle surprise!Mind you his benevolent account of her came across as a description of a harridan.

  63. muttley79 says:

    The sad thing about this latest episode from Lamont and SLAB is the fact that she probably did not even consider that what she was saying could come back and haunt her, and this undoubtedly will. I would be amazed if Salmond does not quote this latest brain fart back at her in the near future. Around 20-30 years ago the Unionists would have been able to get away with this kind of deceit, but with the internet, social media etc they cannot not escape from it. I wonder if they feel almost invincible by the protection they get from the MSM?

    On another topic I see Philip Hammond has criticised the No campaign. The Guardian has an article:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/14/everything-negotiation-scotland-independent-philip-hammond

  64. CameronB says:

    British Labour (North British branch), are the “Lotus feet” of British politics.

  65. Andy-B says:

    The closer we get to the referendum the more I despise Johann Lamont, as she and her cohorts especially Anas Sarwar and Margaret Curran, do their utmost, to falsley claim that staying with the union will see Scots, attain more useful power. When in fact that is not the case.

    O/T Rev, I do apologise.

    The pigmy of political reporting Torcuil Crichton, who writes for the ultra unionist and London owned Daily Record, claims that “A vote for YES isn’t a vote for Scotland and Scots but a vote for Alex Salmond.”

    Crichton adds, “If they vote for nationalism, nationalism is what they’ll get,equality and social justice will need to form a queue behind Scotland’s priorities.”

    Crichton also writes, how wonderful it is that Ed Balls managed to finish the London marathon, Crichton forgets that a vote for the union, and his beloved Labour, is a vote for austerity, and prolonged poverty in Scotland, as Ed Miliband has openly announced he’d continue and broaden austerity measures.

    How can such a beautiful Scottish Island, as Islay produce such a negative son as Cricthon, regarding Scotland running its own affairs, then again I’d never in a million years blame Colonsay inhabitants for Danny Alexander.

  66. call me dave says:

    MajorBloodnok

    Exactly and what about Spain who ditched the bombs.

    The Shavers monthly was as scare as the Sunday Herald this weekend by the way. 🙂

    Jeez! I hear the fishing industry spokesperson just off the News-drive BBC Scotland Radio wanting an answer from the SG. They (SG) will be on soon to pour oil over troubled waters.

    Didn’t Maggie sell them all out many years back to broker a deal in EU.

  67. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Wow, that was quick. I’ve just received the following from Elaine Murray.

    You have misunderstood. The proposals in the Devolution Commission would mean that a further £2bn of taxation revenue in Scotland would be collected in Scotland and under the control of the Scottish Parliament. It would be the decision of the Scottish Government / Parliament whether more or less than £2bn was actually collected. Hope this clarifies

    I dunno, but I’m still as confused as I was before I sent the e-mail. Just for clarification it looks like I’ll need some help here. I didn’t want to put up my e-mail cause I thought it was a bit long winded but it looks like I’m going to have to. Is it me or has Elaine Murray just totally ignored my e-mail and sent a pretty pathetic standardresponse?

    I have been made aware of a recent interview that Johann Lamont gave to the Northern Echo in North East England and, having read the piece have to admit to being more than a little bit confused. Her interview can be read here.

    http://tinyurl.com/n64ummh

    In the Executive Summary of Labour’s “Powers for a purpose – Strengthening Accountability and Empowering People Scottish Labour Devolution Commission” on page 6 it clearly states:

    “Labour will give the Scottish Parliament the power to raise around £2 billion more in revenues beyond the recent Scotland Act, so that it raises about 40 per cent of its budget from its own resources. ”

    In my view this is a clear and unequivable implication to the reader that any future Scottish government, after a NO vote, will be able to raise £2 billion in addition to the amount of money it receives from Westminster in its annual block grant, the inference clearly being that a future Scottish government will have MORE money than it has at present. However, as you can see here in the interview Ms Lamont gives to the Northern Echo she clearly states something entirely different.

    “Interviewed by The Northern Echo, Johann Lamont rejected suggestions that Scotland is poised to gain a huge economic advantage over its neighbouring region, in return for voting ‘no’ to independence.
    Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe “propaganda” about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh, saying: “We shouldn’t let people divide us.”

    To the majority of people who have read both the Executive Summary and the interview it is clearly evident that Ms Lamont is saying two entirely different points of view about the financial situation of Scotland in the event of a NO vote. Most people reading both article would expect the same message to be presented which clearly is not in this case. Either Scotland will be able to raise MORE money in addition to its block grant as per the Executive Summary statement OR it will not be able to raise more money in addition to its block grant. Which is it?

    It could be argued that, in the narrowest and strictest sense, Ms Lamont is not disagreeing with what is said in the Executive Summary. However, that is not how the vast majority of the people of Scotland will see this. The vast majority will undoubtedly see this as the people of Scotland being told one thing whilst the people of North East England are told something completely different. This, in my view, can only lead to even more confusion amongst the electorate of Scotland. Surely the people of Scotland deserve better than this continual confusion.

    In order that absolutely no confusion exists can I please ask that this clearly confusing state of affairs be cleared up.

    Under Labour’s plans for more devolution in the event of a NO vote what exactly does the phrase £2 billion more actually mean?

    Is the £2 billion referred to the estimate by Labour of the amount of money the Scottish government will raise through the income tax rates it will have to introduce as a result of the proposed cut to the block grant ?

    While you do state that future Scottish governments will raises about 40 per cent of its budget from its own resources to the ordinary person in the street this means absolutely nothing at all unless you also give them an indication as to how much is currently raised.

    How much money is currently raised by the Scottish government?

    Why is the actual amount of money currently raised by the Scottish government missing from this statement, surely in the interests of clarity it should have been presented here. As things stand you’re inference that a future Scottish government could raise around 40% of its budget without any reference point to compare with leaves the reader with only one conclusion to come to and that is that the Scottish government does not raise any money from its own resources. I strongly suspect this is not the case but I can not prove it because the document does not give the necessary information. Why is the basic information about the current level of money raised from “home” resources missing?

    Why, if the £2 billion being referred to is in fact as a direct result of the block grant being cut thereby forcing future Scottish governments to raise a significant portion of income tax itself not made entirely clear in the statement I referred to above. Surely if you were wanting to make it easy for people to understand where you stood with your future devolution plans you’d have made this significantly clear. As it is there is absolutely no clarity here at all.

    If the £2 billion referred to is as a result of the block grant being cut and future Scottish governments having to raise their own taxes, or at least a certain percentage of them, themselves why is there no indication at this point of the estimated level of costs involved in processing these taxes?

    Surely by only allowing a future Scottish government to raise a fraction of its tax revenue will result in the Scottish government incurring costs. These costs must surely, for the sake of clarity, be presented to the reader failure to do so would leave to impression that you had something to hide. What are the estimated costs of this tax raising power?

    1,000 apologies for this but after receiving that response I’m thinking of booking myself into the local mental institution for a wee while. I thought my questions were reasonable and straight forward(ish) yet all I got was “you have misunderstood” ARGH!

  68. Ravelin says:

    With regards to the BBC Website Trident article….

    [i]Defence Secretary Philip Hammond is due to make a major speech in Glasgow on Tuesday.

    According to the Herald newspaper, Mr Hammond said in an interview ahead of the speech that, in the event of a “Yes” vote: “You can’t go into any negotiation with things that are non-negotiable”.[/i]

    Ehmmm…but have all the main Westminster parties not been bleating on for weeks about having categorically ruled out a ‘currency union’? Has Hammond just put his foot in it and/or confirmed what was suspected that he was the ‘cabinet minister’ who leaked the ‘of course there will be a currency union’ line?

  69. MochaChoca says:

    Sorry to go O/T
    Daily scare over on the Scotsman, this time regarding international aid (“Scottish independence ‘would harm world’s poorest’”) Someone by the name of ‘Lithuanian Scot’ made this excellent comment, worth sharing:

    Foolish for the Uk Government to pull this can of worms out of hiding. Everybody with even a slight connection to international development knows how the British government use it’s aid budget. Bribing foreign heads of government for access to resources and markets. I heard a rightwing type once complain about how the UK gave Aid to India. When India companies now own everything from the old British Steel and Tetley Teabags it does seem strange. But its part of a collective bride or maybe inducement for India to be agreeable towards the West and US governments when required. That is why some extremely poor countries get little or nothing while corrupt regimes are allowed to imbezzle the money often through the City of London and British controlled off shore dependencies like Gibralta and Bermuda.

    When the money is spent on real projects the results are often vastly over estimated. As she said “the UK helped 20 million people get access to clean water” . A phrase that hides what little contribution they actually made to those projects while claiming all the credit. They talk about immunising children, when UK drug producers are often stipulated as the only allowed suppliers who then over charge. The profits and regardless of what these companies say there are proits probably go in part to the party donations. Meanwhile many of the drugs and vaccines are almost out of date and would have had to have been discarded. Thus making even more profit. Sold extra vaccines and near their use by dates.

    So if Scotland doesn’t hand AId Money over to corrupt governments in Africa or civil servants in India, but actually tries to see it gets to those in need, we can consider it worth more than all the sleazy deals by the British government.

    We should also not forget the crushing debts on these countries in Africa are often held by banks in the City of London. This is not even to mention the behaviour of the IMF.

  70. kalmar says:

    It does sound a wee bit like Hammond is the mysterious cabinet minister, doesn’t it…

  71. CameronB says:

    Arbroath 1320
    Arbroath, you are a mushroom. Get over it. 😉

  72. muttley79 says:

    @Ravelin

    Aye, I think it can be safely said that it was Hammond who spoke out against the rejection of the currency union a few weeks ago. I think his intervention today is simply confirmation of this. It makes sense as he is the UK’s Defence minister. Which brings us on to the more interesting question: does anyone seriously think Hammond did this using his own initiative, or did Cameron and Osborne okay it first?

  73. Arbroath 1320 says:

    On a slightly lighter note, from my last post anyway 🙂 , here’s a link to the Herald and its article about Scotland’s hopes of joining NATO.

    http://tinyurl.com/p6bj8cb

    TRhe article starts off by saying this.

    ,i>”Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, former first sea lord and chief of naval staff, has sent a letter to First Minister Alex Salmond co-signed by former heads of the army, navy, air force and intelligence warning that the SNP’s proposed constitutional ban on nuclear weapons “would be unacceptable for Nato”.

    I’m guessing these top brass types have not been paying too much attention to the political scene in Scotland otherwise they’d know that Scotland is pretty well split, almost 50/50 I believe, over whether we should be in or out of NATO.

    I wonder if they discussed Scotland’s membership of NATO with the new Secretary General of NATO or the outgoing one for that matter. The former is from Norway a NON nuclear country and the latter is from Denmark. Oh look Denmark is another NON nuclear country. 😉

  74. muttley79 says:

    No wonder Darling looks so agitated and angry, the Tories are shafting him and the Labour Party in Scotland! If there is a No vote, then the Tories will take the credit for the result as well. If there is a Yes vote then no more SLAB MPs at Westminster. It does look very much like they are pursuing a dual strategy in the referendum. The evidence keeps on mounting.

  75. schrodingers cat says:

    sorry for double post, a few problems today with wings

    anyway
    o/t
    https://twitter.com/TUsforYes

    mike dyre chair of annisland clp is voting yes

    is this why so few activists are showing up for bt gatherings?

  76. Faltdubh says:

    Very much off topic, but yet, still no word of this ISPO-MORI poll that seems to have vanished from publishing?

  77. schrodingers cat says:

    sorry for double post, a few problems today with wings

    anyway
    o/t

    mike dyre chair of annisland clp is voting yes

    is this why so few activists are showing up for bt gatherings?

  78. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    If Mr Hammond is the Guardian’s source, it sounds to me as if he’s not prepared to take the flack for the loss of Trident.

    Makes sense as he’s a senior Cabinet Minister. Therefore can’t sack him and claim he’s just a junior minister who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    BT are splitting all over the place!

  79. Desimond says:

    Tomorrows Daily Telegraph

    Scots Party Leader stays in Premier Inn and has full breakfast. See our pictures from her £69.99 deluxe rooms(heated towel rail) view into the luxurious North-East Car Park

  80. Arbroath 1320 says:

    CameronB says:

    Arbroath 1320
    Arbroath, you are a mushroom. Get over it. 😉

    It’s all dark in here, why is it so dark in here?

    I don’t like the dark, why is it so dark in here?

    It’s so dark in here…oh food I love food, I like the dark in here. 😛

  81. heraldnomore says:

    Oh is Crichton an Islay man? Didn’t know that. So too of course is Lord Robertson; and a certain Mr Glenn Campbell.

    What on earth do they put in the water over there?

    And isn’t it that same water that is the mainstay of the economy on that sacred isle?

    Oh well, Speyside tonight then.

  82. Edward says:

    Is it me, or is there a bit of a bums rush going on by the media regarding the STUC conference?

    Are the BBC playing it safe and not reporting what’s going on?

    Just a thought

  83. call me dave says:

    Hammond was in America when the story broke, probably getting his butt kicked and told by Uncle Sam to get the finger out.
    Market forces and international political power will get the UKOK to blink first. Will we wilt?

    Here is the union story. I expect it to surface on BBC Newsdrive as I write this…Aye right!

    http://archive.today/OCKp5

  84. CameronB says:

    Re. the latest Trident, world power, CLOUT lunacy from the MoD.

    “No, it wasn’t an accident, I didn’t say that. It was carefully planned, down to the tiniest mechanical and emotional detail. But it was a mistake.”

    ? John Paxton, On the Beach

    Or how about this from a survivor of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    “The only people who should be allowed to govern countries with nuclear weapons are mothers, those who are still breast-feeding their babies.”

    ? Tsutomu Yamaguchi

  85. CameronB says:

    Don’t know where the ?s came from.

  86. gordoz says:

    Absolutely beelin’ !!!! Fisherman

    Press & Journal / BBC Story.

    Who is this attention seeker Bertie Armstrong The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF) chief ? Apparently the organization carried out its own risk assessment, following the likes of financial services giants Standard Life and Alliance Trust, in an attempt to identify the implications of September’s referendum.

    Now up to this point in my life I was not aware that successive UK representation at the EU, over fishing quotas has consistantly fully represented the lot of fisherman in Scotland. Is this the fexking case ?

    What a bunch of opportinist gits.

    I was further not aware that their organization claiming to be non political, (Aye sure) would betray their only political support, that being from the SNP and Scottish Government, over decades going back as far as Winnie Ewing.

    How on earth did they let this mouthpiece ‘a complete loose cannon’ loose on BBC Scotland Newsdrive around 4pm, to help create a story over EU and ‘We need guarantees from YES’ ??

    Careful guys reel this pish in pronto! or you will reap the
    rewards of helping the smoke & mirrors case of no.

    Seriously – the fishing industry should take great care ar support will haemorrhage away at a great pace.

    Anybody aelse pick this crap up.

  87. call me dave says:

    Mr Lochhead on News-drive gives a very competent interview re: Fishing quotas and EU membership in an independent Scotland. 🙂

  88. robbie says:

    Wee useless JoLa is renowned for saying one thing in Scotland and another thing in public in her beloved England.
    Stupid, stupid woman.

  89. Andy-B says:

    O/T I do apologise.

    The Daily Mail, mentioning Alex Salmond and Braveheat, a picture of of both Mel Gibson as William Wallace with his sword,and Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon with the headline , “FREEDOM”, at the bottom of the article Jackson Carlaw Tory MSP says “The independence campaign is a joke.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603157/Freedom-Alex-Salmond-issues-Braveheart-style-battle-cry-bid-win-supporters-independent-Scotland.html

  90. schrodingers cat says:

    rev

    i got a number of replies from labour msp’s and mep regarding devo nano

    do you still want them posted?

    i replied to write to them saying david martin had failed to respond, 2hrs later he replied
    clair bakers is different from dave martins and Jayne Baxter, but martins has deleted much of what jane said in her email last week
    if you want me too i’ll post them and you can delete the posts if they are not applicable

  91. call me dave says:

    gordoz

    I’m with you, I posted that I heard him 4.26pm

    I don’t think think the OKUK lot will have time to look after it all in their priority list. They have other fish to fry!

  92. Edward says:

    Gordoz
    Bertie Armstrong does have form (unfortunately) often as not, doing his own thing.
    The P&J article http://archive.today/UdJpl

    He really is a piece of work. Find it breath taking that somehow Scotland would have less say than it already has. He conveniently overlooks the fact that Scotland doesn’t have any say unless they can get a Scottish minister involved I EU discussions and he forgets that every time that happens the Scottish Government have to fight tooth and nail to get someone in any EU meeting as Westminster prefer blocking.

  93. gordoz says:

    @ call me dave
    @ Edward

    Guys I nearly went off the road with rage.

    Hope the fisherman get tore into this peerage chasing opportunist Armstrong.

    Trust somebodies keeping a list of all these helpful ‘non political’ Scots asking spurious questions.

  94. Papadox says:

    Tell Phil Hammond to go play with his Chiefs of staff and stop sticking his nose in where it ain’t wanted. It is Scotland’s position that trident going is not negotiable. I think one of the main problems GB is left with is what little presents we have lying at the bottom of Gare loch and loch long. Pandoras box will be open and we’ll see what the chiefs of staff want so desperately to hide.

    As for NATO if it can’t speak for itself why is this muppet trying to speak for it. Just tell them we want SFA to do with them, bet that’s caused a bit of fear and panic in Washington and phil will be getting his bumps felt, good and proper. Now phil FO. away and play with yer tin soldiers or something.

  95. Edward says:

    Godoz

    – Doesn’t drivetime come with a health warning that you shouldn’t listen to it whilst driving? 😉

    I’m racking what’s left of my addled brain to think that there is another fishermen’s representative body.

    But I’ve seen before statements from Bertie Armstrong that was sucking up to Westminster, when other fishermen representatives have been critical

    SFF do have a facebook page, but its a bit of a backwater

  96. Hotrod Cadets says:

    Arbroath 1320 says:

    I’m guessing these top brass types have not been paying too much attention to the political scene in Scotland otherwise they’d know that Scotland is pretty well split, almost 50/50 I believe, over whether we should be in or out of NATO.

    The most recent poll I’m aware of is Wings’ previous one here:

    wingsoverscotland.com/the-mind-of-the-nation-part-2/

    That suggests 61% in favour of NATO membership, 11% against.

  97. Papadox says:

    Sorry wee addendum to my post above to mr Hammond. How pristine is Holy loch since you cleaned it up after your bosses the USN abandoned it?

  98. Papadox says:

    We ain’t voting for Alex Salmond or the SNP we are voting for the PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND AND MY DESCENDANTS! We are voting for FREEDOM!

  99. CameronB says:

    Posted in Off-topic.

    MINISTRY OF DEFENCE

    Historical Accounting for UK Defence
    Highly Enriched Uranium

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/#comment-881170

    P.S. not bedtime reading, IMO.

  100. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Thanks for the wee correction there Hotrod. 😉

  101. jimnarlene says:

    I have never trusted the “Labour party”. I remember in the early 90’s, campaigning for the SNP; the utter hatred these people had for anyone of a nationalist or indeed socialist point of view. I drove the ” snappy-bus” on the campaign tour and had the pleasure ( NAE privlage) of having it co-piloted by Ian Hamilton QC. Only for those paragons of the Scottish political elite, the monkeys in red ties, spit at myself and others outside the Grand hall in Kilmarnock, whilst singing that they had sent us home to think again as they had returned the local fool back to the trough of Westminter, as we were trying to send Alex Neil; to upset that trough.

  102. SquareHaggis says:

    Aw naw, Rory the tory is at it again 🙁

    http://tinyurl.com/omxqz4u

  103. Elspeth says:

    Hi, I’m a newbie, so apologies if this is O/T, or out of date:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-labour-official-backing-yes-1-3376042

    Does this say what I think it’s saying? A Glasgow Labour person going for ‘Yes’ in a big way?

  104. Fergie35 says:

    OT
    I am in southern Germany just now and the regional newspaper is saying that the membership of the SNP has plummeted, and pro union parties have seen an escalation in membership.
    WTF??

  105. annie says:

    I was listening to William Hague’s input in the Crimea crisis tonight on the news and realised I simply didn’t believe anything he said because of the lies that have been told by British Government Ministers since the run up to the referendum. How bad has it got that I think I would believe the Russian Government before the British.

  106. call me dave says:

    MacWhirter has a good article in the Herald.

    “Goodbye to Labour complacency and ‘forces of darkness’ … hello new Scotland”

    The last bit as an extract:

    The threat of currency chaos has also backfired. People have begun to realise – on both sides of the Border – that the idea of setting up some financial Hadrian’s Wall to stop Scots using the pound is just not a reasonable thing to do.

    I don’t know if enough ex-Labour voters will take up the promise of a better Labour under independence. It is still a huge psychological leap for Scots, who have never thought of themselves as an oppressed nation, to start thinking of independence. But I find it difficult to know what the Scottish voters are thinking, because the UK-dominated press is so unionist that only one voice seems to get a hearing.

    My sense is that a new Scotland is being created in the heat of this extraordinary campaign, which has now gripped the imagination of every person living in this small country. I’m taking a couple of weeks away to reflect on it all. Hopefully things will be clearer when I come back. In the meantime – don’t touch that dial.

    🙂

  107. CameronB says:

    Re. Rory the Tory. He may have written the Better Together internal postmortem already. Here’s an extract. 🙂

    Even today we are yet to ask. ‘How did we get it so wrong? Why did no-one see that the mission was internally inconsistent, largely irrelevant to national security, and impossible to achieve? Why did we ignore the critics? Why did we promote officers and officials who were consistently wrong?

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/04/rory-stewart-mp-parliament-needs-to-pose-some-difficult-questions-about-our-defence-policy.html

    Mind now, this post-modern neo-imperialist has never voted on replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system. Might this suggest he is against but is too feart to say? Remember, he’s a Tory, so is naturally more opinionated about social welfare.

    Rory Stewart voted moderately for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms.

    Rory Stewart voted very strongly against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices.

    Rory Stewart voted strongly for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support

    Rory Stewart voted strongly for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits.

    Got the picture? Sneaky as well as wrongheaded, IMO.

  108. Harry says:

    Anyone see the female English reporter, a new face to me, on Reporting Scotland, finishing her report on Hammond’s remarks by saying that doubts remain over pensions and the pound and that trying to get answers on them is difficult (can’t remember exact phrasing). More shouting at tv, my neighbour must think I’m mad.

  109. Flower of Scotland says:

    I saw that too Harry!! Thought , here we go again! Ah well this is how it’s going to be until sept 18th, BORING!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  110. Jimsie says:

    Elspeth

    Welcome to Wings. A very good first post with the news of a Labour YES supporter. Posts like this are very heartening.

  111. call me dave says:

    @Harry

    Aye saw that, the usual suspects must be ‘time off in lieu’ because of the SNP conference.

    Can’t wait to hear Hammond ‘killing me softly tomorrow with his song’ but dropping big hints that they really really are sorry and, please can we start over, kind of thing. 🙂

    Also saw Darling in picture but no quotes, perhaps just old footage being played to remind us he’s on the job. 🙁

  112. Jimsie says:

    Harry

    Agreed. Watching Reporting Scotland is not good for the blood pressure.

  113. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Elspeth says:
    Hi, I’m a newbie, so apologies if this is O/T, or out of date.
    Does this say what I think it’s saying? A Glasgow Labour person going for ‘Yes’ in a big way?

    Thanks for this Elspeth. I hadn’t seen this piece of (more) good news.

    I’ve archived it at: http://archive.today/Xkkf0
    (So there is a fixed record of the webpage, and so it can be shared and posted elsewhere without giving The Scotsman clicks.)

  114. Dan Huil says:

    Fergie35 – Pretty sure it’s the other way around. Maybe something was lost in translation? Or has Westminster been spreading lies around the world about Scotland?

  115. Edward says:

    Fergie35
    Do you have the name of the German regional newspaper?
    Perhaps we can track down where they are sourcing?

  116. HorseHead says:

    Bertie Armstrong, Chief Executive, Scottish Fishermen’s Federation was being negative about Scotland’s Fish after Indepenence. He spoke on BBC Scotland today. Why would he do this on camera unless it’s for national consumption and frighten nervous voters, to stop Independence. He says UK has more votes in EU than an Independent Scotland! Thus subconsciously its better to keep status quo and stay in the UK.

    He should not been doing this in a free and open democracy!
    I suspect he’s one of them, a Unionist and Anti-Scot Better Together’er.

    Asked my old ex sojer pal who served on streets of Ulster during Northern Irish Troubles(1969). He’s Scot and with us. He’s my N.Irish expert. He heard Bertie Armstrong speak said it’s Northern Irish with a Scottish surname, must be Unionist and they’re usually ultra Unionists. OMG.

    It gets better. He’s exCaptain of HMS Fishery Protection Navy ship. His job was to pursue and prosecute Scottish fishermen. OMG. I think I’ve just found another troll!

    ps: Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF) formed 1973 to preserve, promote interest of Scotland’s fishermen’s associations at national and international levels.

  117. Edward says:

    Harry
    Suspect this will be the trainee ‘Lucy’ or what every her name is. The one that cant pronounce Scotland properly

    Wouldn’t be surprised if she is getting ‘coached’ to come out with guff, in a fashion that, if the stinky stuff hits the fan as a result, the seasoned ones can point at her and say ‘stupid girl’ and ‘she is only a trainee’ as crass excuses

    Just waiting to see tonight’s episode of Reporting Scotland coming up onto iPlayer (eventually)

  118. David Agnew says:

    Lamont is hopelessly out of her depth. She would be out of her depth if she was a councillor. They can’t remove her because it makes them look weak. They can’t replace her as the options are even more dire. They’ve gotten rid of anyone who had talent and conviction. The rest are now firmly wedded to be careerists above all else. They see Independence then as a threat to the easy life style they enjoy.

    They have fed off Scottish anger at the conservatives for the past 30 years. They are so thoroughly wretched and swivel eyed, I think if you were to present it as a script idea to Armando Iannucci, he’d reject it as simply being to fantastic and unbelievable.

    I never thought I would see the day when I regarded that party, the same way I regard the Tories.

  119. kalmar says:

    “Forty-seven per cent of Britons are ‘somewhat’ proud of their country.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/apr/14/proud-to-be-british-somewhat

    Hmm

  120. Heather McLean says:

    Helena Brown says:
    “Sorry for coming on all O/T but BBC are quoting the Government in Westminster as saying that there will still be negotiations over Trident. Sounds like they are still trying to cause trouble to me”

    I was at the SNP Conference at the weekend and both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon both said that Trident is definitely, categorically NOT negotiable! Westminster can go on about deals all they like but it’s simply NOT going to happen! The SNP are firm on that!

    I suspect you are spot on with your assessment- Westminster are just out to cause trouble! Whats new!

  121. twenty14 says:

    O/T – don’t know if its already been posted but anyone seen Gideon’s new project over on Huff post ” George Osborne’s Power To Raid Your Bank Account Questioned By Senior MPs ”

    Basically if your self employed and don’t pay your taxes then they can remove the money from your account – so when times are hard ( as they are now ) then good old Westminister Gov will rob your account thus making you default on every and any DD you have in place

    We’ve got to get fuckin clear of these madmen in September – IT MUST BE YES

  122. Ken500 says:

    HMRC already have the power to raid people’s Bank accounts. Banks do it as well. Take from personnel accounts for business liabilities, they have done for years. Mortgage payments don’t get paid and the home gets repossessed. Always keep business and personal accounts in separate Banks.

    Scotland gets taxed twice. Oil and Whisky gets taxed at 80%, while Multinationals in the City of London tax evade and pay no tax. They want to tax Scotland a third time – 10% tax.

    It is claimed Scotland has a £9Billion deficit. £3Billion overpaid to UK Exchequer. £4Billion loan repayment on monies Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. £1.5Billion on Trident/redundant weaponry. £1.5Billion saved by a tax on cheap ‘loss leading’ alcohol. £10Billion. Vote Yes.

  123. twenty14 says:

    test

  124. themadmurph says:

    I was just called by Labour. They asked my how I was intending to vote in the referendum. I told them yes. Asked why I said self-determination. I was then asked about GE 2015 and Scottish Election 2016. I said I was don’t know to both those because it would really depend on the result of the referendum.

    I was then asked if I ever voter Labour. Said yes and I still consider myself a socialist, but felt labour had become more right wing. He said look at Scottish Labour, they are more left wing!! I told him I wasn’t interested in a Scottish Labour party that was just a business unit run from London. I looked forward to independence and the chance to have a real socialist party!

    At that he thanked me and hung up!

  125. Tam Jardine says:

    You’ve heard of Orange Wednesdays? The Herald has been going with Better Together Mondays for a while now with David Torrance’s regular column in which he pecks away with little quotes and distortions here and there like a little bird.

    The SNP displays ‘ethnic’ nationalism as well as ‘civic’ nationalism. It is his way of linking the SNP with all kinds of bogeymen of the past, and accusing this most pleasant, genial and internationalist party of racism.

    For starters, at conference sometimes things get out of hand and we go all, well, Scottish. And that rally on Calton Hill was all kilts and woad. Nae bairns, nae elderly people… plenty of unsavoury characters but.

    Alex Salmond even made reference in a recent speech in the US to Scots ancestry, to Robert Burns, sir Walter Scott in Central Park… He even mentioned the Declaration of Arbroath (twice for heaven sake)! Let’s just book a slot at the Hague now.

    My reading of my party is that they bend over backwards to be inclusive and multicultural whilst at the same time are unashamedly the National Party of Scotland who have played a major part in our country’s spiritual and constitutional resurrection.

    I’m getting a bit tired of reading all the smears and innuendo aimed not just at my party’s leadership but at every member.

    Opening the next page we have Shadow SOS Defence Vernon Coker who opens with “The choice facing the people of Scotland in September is clear. It’s a choice between further devolution…” They are all lying to us. I think some of them believe their own lies. Johann Lamont is combining lies with smear, innuendo and lack of knowledge of the matter at hand, blagging policy on the hoof.

    They’ve been drip drip dripping this complex on our psyche for years. I found an antidote on the net tonight. Read it and take a few deep breaths. We can do this. http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml

    Hope I’ve done that link correctly.

  126. JLT says:

    I really don’t get it with the likes of Darling, Lamont and all those others who are Scottish born, but are intent on acting against their own nation by spouting the biggest set of lies and drivel in order to deceive their own countrymen …and seriously …for what?

    If independence is won (or even lost …it might not matter) …don’t these people realise that their name will be utterly BLACK when it comes to this period of history when it is written in years to come. Don’t they know what happened to James Douglas, 2nd Duke of Queensberry? He was the main Scottish culprit who lied, cheated and deceived his own people into signing the Act of Union in 1707. He even swindled those whom he bribed by offering less money than what was actually meant to be offered to them! He pocketed a bundle of that bribe money because there was quite a bit left over. This was a deceitful and contemptible man.
    He was derided in Scotland, but lauded in England. The term ‘Parcel o’ Rogues’ which was penned by Robert Burns in 1791, mainly revolves around this man!

    Queensberry might have been cheered by many at the time, but his name is absolute mud in Scotland (thanks to his own actions, and Burn’s poem). Therefore, do Darling and Lamont not realise that they are heading down the very same path? After all, if Scotland does become independent, then everything is going to be laid bare; not just what Westminster has done to the Scots for the last 3 centuries, but also, what exactly went on in this campaign by the ‘No’ mob. Post-indy, there will be deep analysis of why the ‘No’ mob failed. Everyone will want to know why ‘Yes’ came from so far behind to win. How did they do it, and how did ‘No’ lose such a commanding lead?
    And one question may be asked …what promises were this lot offered by the Establishment if they had succeeded in derailing the Independence movement?

    Let’s be honest. These are not stupid people. You don’t become a Lawyer, a Campaign Leader, an MP, an MSP from being completely deluded or a total lack of brain cells. Therefore, they are not complete idiots …and yet, infuriatingly, as well, arrogantly, they treat us as though we were. It is this attitude that will finally nail them to the pages of the history books. They are blindly walking down a path that will lead to the ruin of their name …and the question will always be …why?

    For me, I can only see derision and contempt awaiting them, when our children, and our children’s children, study this period in future Scottish History.

  127. davidhk says:

    I got same response from labour’s Siobhan , the other 2 and jola have failed to respond

    Dear Mr Kelly

    Thank you for your further e-mail.

    I would refer you to my initial response below where I set out the proposals of Scottish Labour’s Devolution Commission regarding income tax.  Part 5 of the report – “Creating a fairer, progressive and more accountable tax system” sets out, in detail, Scottish Labour’s approach for creating a fairer, progressive and more accountable tax system in Scotland.  The full report can be read by clicking on the link below.
    http://b.3cdn.net/scotlab/c07a7cdb97a522f4c5_h1m6vwh8l.pdf

    I believe that I have now adequately responded to your queries and have nothing further to add.

    Yours sincerely

    Siobhan McMahon MSP
    Member of the Scottish Parliament for Central Scotland

  128. Tam Jardine says:

    Do forgive the rambling slightly unhinged off topic post. It’s been a long and weary day.

  129. davidhk says:

    Also got this response from siohban when I asked about labours policy on university fee’s

    Dear Mr xxxxxx

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    As outlined in the Devolution Commission report, it is the view of Scottish Labour that it is only right for any political party to set out its detailed policy programme for government in their manifesto.  This was indeed a viewpoint shared by the majority of individuals and organisations who were engaged in the recent policy process. It would therefore be premature for me to outline the details of Scottish Labour’s policy programme for government at this time.

    Additionally, as the SNP will still be the current Scottish Government after the referendum, it would be a decision for them on the position of university fees in the event that Scotland votes No.

    Yours sincerely

    Siobhan McMahon MSP
    Member of the Scottish Parliament for Central Scotland

    —–Original Message—–
    From: David xxxxxxxx
    Sent: 05 April 2014 09:01
    To: Lamont J (Johann), MSP; McMahon S (Siobhan), MSP; McCulloch M (Margaret), MSP; Griffin M (Mark), MSP
    Subject: University fee’s in the event of a NO vote

    As  a resident of Falkirk I am writing to you to ask what would be the position on university fee’s should Scotland vote NO in the coming referendum and then labour manage to regain control of Holyrood at the next election in 2016.

    I look forward to your response.

    Best regards

  130. ronnie anderson says:

    @Elspeth,you hit the site running with that contrabution,

    ah hope your well stock’d up with the Irn Bru n crisps, an

    if the flickering screen gets to much for your eyesight ah

    recommend a pair of sun glasses,Paco Roban if you want to

    look cool online,welcome to the good the bad n ugly &

    thats only the BTers,you’ll get to know the rest of us

    Wingers on a daily basis looking forward to more from you.

  131. davidhk says:

    If the votes no, darling will get a Lordship for services to the empire ( remains of), if we vote yes he will need to emigrate to his beloved rUK and become a burden to their tax payers

  132. john king says:

    David Agnew says
    “They can’t replace her as the options are even more dire.”

    How is that humanly fucking possible?
    the droppings in birdcage would be step up from that!

  133. Grouse Beater says:

    The SNP displays ‘ethnic’ nationalism as well as ‘civic’ nationalism. It is his way of linking the SNP with all kinds of bogeymen of the past, and accusing this most pleasant, genial and internationalist party of racism.

    I read it – a litany of false association and principles not necessarily mutually exclusive. Woolly thinking.

    He utterly fails to recall Blair’s government was crammed full of Scots-born politicians. If that’s Scottish ethnic nationalism not civic nationalism I’m J. K. Rowling.

    Torrance’s musings have all the authenticity of the white man’s first diary jotting on meeting a “savage” in “darkest Africa.”

    “These heathens are not like us. To begin with they wear the briefest of clothes and appear to be without modesty.”

    And on diaries, a prediction:

    The day after Yes wins the plebiscite, Salmond enjoying a celebratory glass of Proseco- no, a triumphant magnum of champagne, opens his diary to write: “First opportunity, must ask party to remove “National” from our name.”

    I heard him say he feels the inclusion of “national” unfortunate. It has, as you imply, given Scotland’s idiots and enemies the opportunity to conjure all sort of ill will and ethnic nonsense to throw at self-governance.

  134. Indy_Scot says:

    Not sure if I’ve got this right, but it looks like 32Red are giving odds of 13/8 for a Yes vote, which is not far off even money.

    Is the wind behind a Yes vote.

  135. Morag says:

    Yes it is. It’s our job to keep it there.

    Shoulders to the wheel guys. I want to go into polling day with a reasonable degree of confidence, and we ain’t there yet.

    You never know, one day someone in BT might even take all that advice and start doing something sensible.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T:
    Hi folks, I finally got round to editing a short video and stuck it on youtube: –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QXvw0wTODLw

    The idea is to start a series of exposing Better Together’s more obvious lies. As this is a first attempt I could do with some feedback both on the actual video and the idea.
    Frae Auld Bob Peffers.

  137. Grouse Beater says:

    @JLT

    I really don’t get it with the likes of Darling, Lamont and all those others who are Scottish born, but are intent on acting against their own nation by spouting the biggest set of lies and drivel in order to deceive their own countrymen …and seriously … for what?

    Their entire career, their life’s work, the friends they have made out of it, has gone into a total commitment to a Westminster ideal. To have the removed in a day activates a deep seated insecurity. Was everything I did for nothing?

    Then there is the loss of status, the self-aggrandisement evaporated, the record in the archives of all the stupid things you said, the certainty of being out of favour forever, all to contemplate, but above all, the loss of a fat salary.

    It’s a hellishly paintful tommorow to face.

    “Dad, what did you do when the Referendum was debated?”
    “I fought for the wrong side and I lost everything.”

  138. Geoff Huijer says:

    I’m with David on this one…unbelievable…J Lo made Morag swear.

    Lamont in ‘telling truth’ shock.

  139. jingly jangly says:

    Been in the Shires for the weekend at the Motorcycle racing, so missed heaps of stuff, one thing coming back on the train today, I happened to be travelling 1st Class, (Good deal) and noticed that the only papers available in the Edinburgh – Glasgow route was the Scotsman, about 6 or more copies available, so that’s where they get their circulation numbers from. Anyway was bored and had to force myself to read it, just glanced through it really but there was a great cartoon, I kept a copy and will photo it tomorrow and send to the rev as I cant post jpgs here, but it was a surprise I can tell you!!! 🙂

    Fergie35
    Possible that the SNP has more members than all the other pro-union party’s in Scotland combined, last time I checked the SNP had over 25k members.

    According to this link Labour have 13.5k http://www.betternation.org/2010/09/just-how-big-is-labour-in-scotland/

    The tories are claiming 11k, but going by their recent spring conference is more like 11 and the lib-dems now struggle to fully man a tandem.

    However the German Regional newspaper is doing what David Icke once claimed of the “Establishment” they always say the polar opposite to what the truth is, you might be put off agreeing with David Icke but ever since I read that statement of his, its makes sense it does appear to happen more often than not.

  140. Robert Peffers says:

    @JLT: “I really don’t get it with the likes of Darling, Lamont and all those others who are Scottish born”.

    Darling was born a Londoner,(and it shows).

  141. Morag says:

    JoLa would make the Archangel Gabriel swear.

  142. HandandShrimp says:

    I am in southern Germany just now and the regional newspaper is saying that the membership of the SNP has plummeted, and pro union parties have seen an escalation in membership.
    WTF??

    Fergie

    I think if that was the case the BBC might have mentioned it in passing 😉 Something has got mangled in translation I think.

  143. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    i cant remember a more hated politician than poison lamont. FACT.

  144. Morag says:

    Sorry Findlay, Maggie got there first.

  145. Andrew Morton says:

    @Geoff Huijer 9:36

    I’m sorry Geoff, but I’ve actually met Morag and find it inconceivable that she is capable of uttering a sweary word.

    It must be a troll masquerading as her.

  146. themadmurph says:

    @Indy_Scot
    I opened an account with McBookie with the view to getting 7/1 for 50-54% YES. 50-54 was the highest percentage on offer. For various reasons, I didn’t get my bet on. Went back today to do it. It is now offering 9/2, quite a drop!

    They are now also offering >54% @ 7/2

    There must be lots of money going on YES!!! 🙂

  147. twenty14 says:

    @ HandandShrimp

    maybe it should have read ” In Southern General just now and ……….

    🙂

  148. Morag says:

    Stu has officially lost his marbles on Twitter. I told you the strain would get to him in the end.

  149. HorseHead says:

    Bertie Armstrong, Chief Executive, Scottish Fishermen’s Federation was being negative about Scotland’s Fish after Indepenence. He spoke on BBC Scotland today. Why would he do this on camera unless it’s for national consumption and frighten nervous voters, to stop Independence. He says UK has more votes in EU than an Independent Scotland! Thus subconsciously its better to keep status quo and stay in the UK.

    He should not been doing this in a free and open democracy!
    I suspect he’s one of them, a Unionist and Anti-Scot Better Together’er.

    Asked my old ex sojer pal who served on streets of Ulster during Northern Irish Troubles(1969). He’s Scot and with us. He’s my N.Irish expert. He heard Bertie Armstrong speak said it’s Northern Irish with a Scottish surname, must be Unionist and they’re usually ultra Unionists. OMG.

    It gets better. He’s exCaptain of HMS Fishery Protection Navy ship. His job was to pursue and prosecute Scottish fishermen. OMG. I think I’ve just found another troll!

    ps: Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF) formed 1973 to preserve, promote interest of Scotland’s fishermen’s associations at national and international levels.

  150. JLT says:

    Grouse Beater,

    Their entire career, their life’s work, the friends they have made out of it, has gone into a total commitment to a Westminster ideal. To have the removed in a day activates a deep seated insecurity. Was everything I did for nothing?

    There is an aspect of that, but for Darling, who already has the spectre of the Financial Crash stuck to his persona, I wouldn’t have thought he would be that foolish in getting caught up in a fight between Scotland and Westminster …especially when it means aiding the Tories.

    Darling has nothing to gain really (think about it …what does he really get out of this) and everything to lose (his entire life’s work as you say, as well as the tarnishing of his name). If it is a ‘No’ vote, Cameron and Osborne are the real winners. They will be the ones who will be lauded with saving the Union. What does Darling get? A seat in the Lords. Whoopy-doo! Cameron will be right up there with Thatcher as the man who saved Britain. He will be what all future Tories should aspire too.

    Robert Peffers
    “I really don’t get it with the likes of Darling, Lamont and all those others who are Scottish born’

    I know what you are saying, Robert, but whether it’s London; Cardiff; Belfast or Timbuktu. He’s a Scot. He may have been born in London, but he was born a Scot, into a Scottish family, with extensive links in Scottish society.

  151. Morag says:

    Is anyone near enough to Bath to get over there with some Valium? Or maybe some lithium?

  152. Paula Rose says:

    What’s up Morag?

  153. Morag says:

    Look at his Twitter feed. Our hundred grand is going banjax before our very eyes.

    (It’s actually very funny.)

  154. TJenny says:

    Hee,Hee, I’m sniggering like a schoolkid at Stuey’s Tweets. 🙂

  155. ronnie anderson says:

    Oh Morag bolts of lightning will decend from the heavens

    you know angels dont use sweary words,neither does JoLo

    at least her script writer goat something rite,well no

    when theres a microphone or camera near.

  156. Grouse Beater says:

    Darling has nothing to gain really

    If he wins there vis the possibility of chancellor once more, but if not chosen there are directorship salaries, consultation contracts, and lecture fees will be enormous. In addition, the prefix “Lord” gets you considerable status and contacts.

    On top of all that there’s the television series to rehabilitate him with the natives, “Darling’s Great Coach Trips,” followed by a lucrative book advance, self-written or ghosted, “How I Defeated Nationalism,” by Lord Darling of Quislingburgh, MP, MBE, Hon DShit.

  157. HandandShrimp says:

    Twitter is a vexatious place. I can’t thole it for more than 5 minutes.

  158. twenty14 says:

    @Morag

    Could it be wildly possible that what’s written on twitter might not be from the Rev but others hoping to cast him in a bad light – Is it possible to hack twitter accounts.

    Unfortunately I put nothing past anyone at this current time as we’re breathing down bt’s neck or possibly even ahead

  159. Morag says:

    Depends where you go. You can find stuff out too.

  160. Morag says:

    2014, don’t be daft, it’s just Stu letting his hair down. Or it would be if he had enough hair to let down.

  161. Paula Rose says:

    Ah – the Rev is in Norway blowing the money on a few pints – smiley, winky thingy.

  162. TJenny says:

    twenty14 – Stu’s just having loads of fun so don’t fret. He’s allowed some light relief and it is very funny.

    (Particularly liked, with Lord Robbo in mind, Peer Dear Beer Fear. 🙂

  163. TJenny says:

    Morag – great minds. : D

  164. twenty14 says:

    @Morag – good was just thinking outside the box – climbing back inside now 🙂

  165. ronnie anderson says:

    So police Scotland advized cancellation of demolishing the

    Red Rd flat for fear of demonstrations/safety,

    So when are they going to have a word with Cooncillor

    Terry shitheid & his incitement to provoke violence.

  166. HandandShrimp says:

    I see Stu is exploring his fears (with caps lock as cruise control for the cool) and a Sun journalists handbook of headlines made easy. Trouble is he might be giving them ideas 🙂 After the Forces of Darkness and Scotland sends the Starving Millions into the abyss pish nothing is off limits any more

  167. Morag says:

    Stu kind of spoiled the effect by ending with a perfectly sane and sober tweet. He should have left the demented rant unalloyed for a bit.

  168. ronnie anderson says:

    I would hope that the Scottish Government dont contribute any more money to the commonwealth games given the increase in costs.

  169. Capella says:

    @Robert Peffers
    Re video, I think it’s a good idea (correct the typo on “affirmative”though). Short, clear statements and the text matches. But keep the text short otherwise you miss the spoken words trying to read it.

  170. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Looks like Stu has gone into FEAR overload best make sure he doesn’t see this article then. Oops too late. 😛

  171. Arbroath 1320 says:

    erm think it might help if I actually included the link here. 😉

    http://tinyurl.com/qclntwd

  172. Morag says:

    That’s the article that set him off, of course.

  173. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella :
    Thank you, just the kind of thing I needed. I’m in a little difficulty just now as my desktop computer is sick and I’m editing and viewing youtube on my PVR and TV. This machine I’m on WoS with is an old small netbook running XP.

    I was doubtful on the size of the fonts I used. I may end up scrolling the text along the bottom of the screen. However, I should get the big screen desktop up and running again soon.
    Thank you again.

  174. Papadox says:

    Hammond has nowhere to stick his atomic arse nal when we give it the push, so think he is hoping that he can sweet talk the daft jocks into letting them park their big boys toys until something comes along.

    Think him and his atomic toys are wanted like a fart in a space suite, he’s nobodies child and obviously his best mate Barrac has given him a deefy re parking his shit in USA and probably explained to him not to piss the jocks off regarding NATO, ok phil.

  175. gordoz says:

    Oh how clever STV are with their hidden Better Together stories of the debating kids, (Who won STV debate for YES), but are actually NO voters. Spent all their time saying how process convinced them all the more to vote NO.

    Dear, Dear

    What a cunning plan ? , since they’ve been on TV before (re schoolkids backing BT) and previously stated their NO allegiance, several times now.

    Its getting as bad as the BBC STV, come on try harder.

  176. rab_the_doubter says:

    I think Stu is on to something here. If we can predict and pre-empt their next round of random garbage then we can blow it out of the water it before they even get it out. Leaves them with less than nowhere to go.

  177. caz-m says:

    Have BBC Scotland ever said a good word about the Commonwealth Games.

    Constantly running it into the ground.

    Team Scotland rule ya shower a BBC bar stewards.

  178. rab_the_doubter says:

    Gordoz,
    The interesting thing is that YES is so compelling that even committed better together supporters find it easier to agree with than their negative No campaign. I think that lassie might be for turning though.

  179. Tam Jardine says:

    Elspeth

    Thanks for brining Mike Dyer’s support of the Yes campaign to our attention. It is a brave act for a man to go against his party and step forward. For a bit of a laugh I lifted the lid on the comments page of the Scotsman. It’s like a wasps nest that’s had a good shake!

    And the funniest thing is, this vicious howling madness of vitriol is 3 guys sitting in their bedrooms at the computer, each one with about 12 different identities egging each other on. At some point social services should be called.

    These men have truly lost their way. They are more to be pitied than castigated. I wonder if, once the referendum is won they will remain in their dugout in the jungle like those Japanese soldiers who refuse to surrender?

    Anyway brave decision by Mike Dyer’s and a welcome post Elspeth. It’s great so many new voices are being heard – long may it continue.

  180. North chiel says:

    For a little musical light relief to ease the
    Tension for all yes media watchers ,click on
    “Corries songs” and find “liberty”
    Also if you want an appropriate song to commemorate
    The 2014 Great War listen to the lyrics of “green fields
    Of France “

  181. caz-m says:

    Hammond warning Scots about Trident Missile removal.

    I think we need to get the UN WMD squad on the case here.

    It will be illegal for Scotland to store nuclear missiles after we become an Independent Country.

  182. rab_the_doubter says:

    North chief
    Another one for that list:

    The Band played Waltzing Mathilda

    great song which highlights the Aussie involvement.

  183. annie says:

    Looks like Steven Purcell’s rehabilitation is well and truly complete. That’s twice tonight he has been on BBC Scotland. He actually described himself as a recovering politician.

  184. Weedeochandorris says:

    That photie of Jola brings to mind a wee Abba number. Apologies in advance, it’s late.

    Mamma mia, here I go again
    My my, how can a’ stick it to ya?
    Mamma mia, does it show again?
    My my, just how much we’ve robbed ya?
    Yes, I know you’ve been shafted
    I’ve ranted since the day this started
    Why, why should we ever let you go?

  185. Marcia says:

    I see that the Woman for Independence appeal has now reached the target of £20,140.

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/women-for-independence-our-voices-fundraiser?c=pledges

  186. Weedeochandorris says:

    @Marcia fantastic news! Gaun yersels , the lassies!

  187. Morag says:

    Oh good.

  188. Minty says:

    That Benedict Brogan line in the Torygraph about Cameron resigning if we vote Yes is really utter crap. What is it designed to achieve? Most people on this side of the border would think ‘Great, lets do it’ and so would half the Tory party who want to knife him.

    Truth is, it would only be months before the Westminster election – he’d never walk and trigger a leadership contest.

    Wonder if it is designed to scare North British Tories into action for BT? Are there enough of them to hire a minibus, or could they manage in a Vauxhall Corsa?

  189. caz-m says:

    @Arbroath 1320

    Somebody better tell that First Sea Lord guy, Sir Humphrey Bumphrey that Scotland doesn’t have any surface fleet cover or maritime air cover as we speak.

    The nearest Royal Navy ship we have is based in Portsmouth.

    600 miles away.

    We have reduced the number of Army personnel in Scotland.

    So Scotland is almost reduced to zero cover and that is with us IN the Union.

    They have of course gave us their Trident missiles to look after for them.

    Project Fear Bullshit.

  190. caz-m says:

    @Marcia

    Great news about the fund raiser.

    Have they got something exciting planned?

  191. Marcia says:

    caz-m

    According to the appeal:

    We want to:
    •Hire 2 campaign organisers who can coordinate our activities in the four months before the referendum.
    •Produce 2 new leaflets and supply to Yes groups and organisations across Scotland.
    •Fund our three campaign videos (the first of which is due out to coincide with International Women’s Day) each of which costs around £1800.
    •To pay for advertising
    •To fund venues for meetings and other activities. For example hiring the Pearce Institute in Glasgow for filming or meeting costs £100 per day.
    •To provide media training for more women to widen the number of women representing the organisation.

  192. Ronnie says:

    Auld Bob;

    Great idea to have a source of actual video clips to direct ‘unbelievers’ to.

    Please keep it up.

    However, ever the pedant, you might want to look at ‘saught’ and ‘afirmative’ again?

    Well, you did ask…

  193. Arbroath 1320 says:

    caz-m says:

    @Arbroath 1320

    Somebody better tell that First Sea Lord guy, Sir Humphrey Bumphrey that Scotland doesn’t have any surface fleet cover or maritime air cover as we speak.

    The nearest Royal Navy ship we have is based in Portsmouth.

    600 miles away.

    We have reduced the number of Army personnel in Scotland.

    So Scotland is almost reduced to zero cover and that is with us IN the Union.

    They have of course gave us their Trident missiles to look after for them.

    Project Fear Bullshit.

    Wheesht! Whatever you do do NOT under any circumstances inform the First Sea whatsit that we do not have anything in Scotland to protect ourselves. He’d be up here in a flash with his *ahem* spare frigate, or is it a decommissioned destroyer, I can’t quite remember these days. So long as he *ahem* thinks we can defend ourselves then we are safe. 😉

  194. HorseBoy says:

    @annie
    What’s the truth about the “Steven Purcell” affair!

    I smelt something dodgy. Any links to the story, Wiki doesn’t say much.
    Believe it was Sex, Drugs and Criminals or worse!

    Who kept him out of view, paying his Board and Lodgings!
    Must have been the UK Labour Party Special Protection Squad?

    The story disappeared fast, the Establishment must have issued a D-Notice!

    In January2012 the Procurator-Fiscal Crown Office stated that there was insufficient evidence of criminality. Are the Procurator-Fiscal’s independent? Doesn’t seen so.

    ps. Defence Notice or D-Notice is an official request to News Editors not to publish or broadcast items on specified subjects for reasons of national security. The system is still in use in the United Kingdom.

  195. Adrian B says:

    Just thought that I would post the main story from 1 year ago today as a reminder. It also makes you think just how far that we have come.

    From April 15th 2013:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/legal-correspondence/

  196. RogueCoder says:

    @caz-m
    600 miles away

    As the crow flies. In a ship that has to go around the outside, it’s more like 900 miles – so about two full days at sea averaging 25 knots and allowing for tide and weather. Once she’s spun up and the crew are aboard this is, which is another 2 days minimum (more likely a full week), and even that is in time of war.

    So yeah, fucking BT bullshit.

    Have these people no shame?

  197. North chiel says:

    Rab the doubter

    Yes I see the obvious connection with
    Australia as I will be emigrating down under
    After a no vote

  198. North chiel says:

    Minty ,not so sure Cameron won’t resign
    If he loses Scotland.with trident centre stage
    And the Us government pressing for a solutio Hammond
    Might well emerge as “the man”

    Indeed this scenario could well have been
    Discussed at eton cabal level ,(with the US administration
    Pressing Hammond recently for answers)
    It looks to me that the currency leak was approved
    At the highest level

  199. john king says:

    Findley Faquaharson says
    “i cant remember a more hated politician than poison lamont. FACT.”

    For memory loss take Thatcher tablets the whole horror of the past will come flooding back, jola doesn’t even come close to the pure evil that woman visited on Scotland.

    Horse Head says

    “He says UK has more votes in EU than an Independent Scotland! Thus subconsciously its better to keep status quo and stay in the UK.”

    Even a five y/o would be able to dismantle that in a second, you could have a thousand representatives within the UK/EU but if you start from a standpoint that Scottish fisheries are a negotiating chip (DISPOSABLE) for more important things to London you have worse than no representation at all.

    First sea dog Lord Zambellas (good English name that) tells us (yet again) how the rampaging hoarde are just waiting for the Grand fleet to leave Scottish waters for the last time so they can invade,

    cite the case of the might of the Russian navy being seen oft by the cream of the British fleet, the dreadnought HMS York sent full speed (she did reach 15 knots but the engineer said “the engines cannie take much more captain”)too see the blighters off,
    IS HE EFFING SERIOUS?
    We have NO capital ships in Scotland AT ALL but somehow having the ability as an independent country with its OWN defence budget is a disadvantage and of course on independence the Clyde shipyards will lose the ability to build world class warships, what does the grand sea dog have to say about the first act (of vandalism) by Cameron on entering office was to destroy brand new reconnaissance aircraft for fear they might fall into the hands of an independent Scotland (cant have these jockos thinking self defence would be something they are capable of)the sad procession of doom mongers is actually getting embarrassing now.

  200. john king says:

    The only serious navel ahem asset that man can point to in Scotland is in the shape of a massive target painted over Helensburgh, dontcha just feel safe in your bed knowing the good ol Royal Navy is on the job!

  201. john king says:

    I think what the First Sea dog is actually saying is that the rUK sea defence will be weakened by Scottish independence , the reason being we will have a pro rata share of the existing navy so 10% of the current surface fleet will be ours, but dinnie worry guys we’ll protect ye, we always have haven’t we?

    what I found funny was the line from the First sea dog about us all serving in Nelsons victory at Trafalgar,
    now I know they used to take on midshipmen at a young age in those days but his recollection of us all pulling on that rope is – well a bit ropey.

  202. bunter says:

    First sea lord admiral blimp wheeled out on BBC North Britainshire dire warnings of weakened defences should we vote NO followed up by mention of unelected Tory on day scare return to lecture the natives.

    I am sure I read somewhere that the RN has more sea lords and admirals than ships these days?

    Oh and of course, no difficult questions for said sea lord such as why no one was at home a couple of times when Russian carrier group Kuznetzov came to visit Scotland a few times, oh and why Norway do our maritime patrols.

    Over to you BBC ho ho ho.

  203. John H. says:

    I’ve just heard that The First whatsit pointed out that Scots made up a third of Nelson’s fleet at Trafalgar. All he’s doing is highlighting how much they’ve always used and needed us.

    Sorry if that has been mentioned before. I’ve just got up and am trying to catch up.

  204. JLT says:

    Grouse Beater

    ‘If he wins there vis the possibility of chancellor once mor’

    Nah! Can’t see that happening. Middle England will never forgive Darling for what happened to the economy. Darling is a Scot, who will be batted to the side, and told in subtle terms to ‘eff off’. I agree. He will be given a seat in the Lords, but it will be some mickey mouse seat. A lordship over Gruinard (Anthrax Island) is what he’s likely to be given.
    As said, it will be Cameron and Osborne who will be lauded.

    However, I did laugh at On top of all that there’s the television series to rehabilitate him with the natives, “Darling’s Great Coach Trips,” followed by a lucrative book advance, self-written or ghosted, “How I Defeated Nationalism,” by Lord Darling of Quislingburgh, MP, MBE, Hon DShit.
    I can just seem him doing TV shows like ‘Coach Trip’. Possibly …‘Big Al’s Savings Tips’, or ‘Beat Positivity with a bit of Negativity. It worked for me!’ or ‘How many times can I drag the country over a cliff?’ or taking one of Rikki Fulton’s beloved characters; bring back ‘Last Call’ with the ‘Reverend I.M. Darling’ (sweat words of dismal wisdom before going to bed)

  205. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland bias again. They show video of this Sea Lord guy telling us a scary story, yet NO rebuttal video from Scottish Government.

    C’mon Scottish Government, get on that telly.

    Even the big BBC is showing this Sea Lord guy. They must want to really scare us.

    We have NO defence at the moment, but that is not mentioned.

    As for Philip Hammond, we were always going to get a currency union, so really, he is offering us nothing for keeping Trident.

    I notice ALL these top jobs in the Armed Forces go to English public school boys. Toys for the boys.

    Daddy gets it all sorted while they are Eton you know.

    Dump this shower of parasites.

    Scotland will have it’s own Defence Force, free of Trident.

    Vote YES.

  206. JLT says:

    ‘sweat words’ …sweeeeet words (god damn it! We really need that editor back!)

    Then again …maybe ‘Sweat words’ is closer to the truth than ‘Sweet words’. Horrible smelly advice….

  207. JLT says:

    Caz-m

    As I said yesterday, I had the relatives up from England. Found out yesterday from the wife after I got home from work, that her cousin stormed off in the huff after they had another discussion on it.

    As the wife has quietly said to me, ‘They are really uneasy about Scotland breaking away. They’re scared. I can see it in their faces. They are really worried!’

    So, yep …if this is the vibe we are picking up from our relatives in England, then the Establishment must be really bricking it! Can’t be easy wondering if come 2017 if rUK will still have a Permy Seat on the Security Council. The thought of being of equal status to Albania in the world (no offence to Albania) must terrify them!

  208. gordoz says:

    British State Broadcaster pips Commercial TV in the ‘Wake up Warning Scotland’ mantra; sorry should read ‘Good morning Britian’ stakes.

    Full Audio visual –

    ‘Admiral Nelson’ points out that Royal Navy will be less effective (smaller) because Scots might leave (No Trident Port)and they’ll have hostile neighbour to the North with big gaps in the ocean, (sounds biblical to me), something else about UK funding being money for old rope ???

    (Think thats what he said)

    Oh and UK defence secretary says ‘Rather’!

    SNP – statement only at end ‘UK underspend on maritime defence is ongoing – the reason for gaps’

  209. ronnie anderson says:

    @Weedeochanddorris 11.34,Sung that through a couple of

    anither couple of verse’s a nice catchy wee tune,ah would

    think you’ve got a no 1 hit,& with the Emburgh fringe roon

    the corner some of they political satire show will be

    knockin on your door,& most certainly a Mr CameronB/Paula

    Rose will have it on their playlist,pincel oot heid on.

  210. caz-m says:

    JLT

    England have USED Scots, Welsh and Irish as cannon fodder for over 300 years.

    All this patronising p*sh from Sea Lord F*ckin Hee Haw.

    The Scots have a get out card.

    Let’s use it.

  211. gordoz says:

    @JLT

    Oh but even worse; equal staus to Alba, ouch …

  212. caz-m says:

    Rev

    I hope you run a post on Defence, so we can really let get to the truth of what we are being told by the UK Government.

  213. North chiel says:

    If the vote is yes( note the rhetoric from Hammond
    Today), and if he cannot broker an “interim arrangement”
    With SG , then he might well subsequently be accompanied by John Kerry
    Knocking on the door of Bute house if ” negotiations
    Break down”

  214. caz-m says:

    Edit.

    Rev

    I hope you run a post on Scottish Defence.

  215. gordoz says:

    After this mornings BBC Scotland’s thumbing their nose to impartiality, I really hope someone somewhere is still undertaking academic scrituny of the Media coverage of the referendum in Scotland, (for posterity).

    Since State broadcaster does not address complaints in Scotland, does anyone know of a Scottish Referendum dedicated webspace that highlights current and historic issues over the state controlled media of Scotland. I think if that got a lot of recurring posts whenever stuff like this mornings ‘Admiralty Crap’ happens, at least people could see the complaints, read them and judge for themselves.

    With the BBC’s approach nobody sees anything, other than the UKOK view.

  216. Training Day says:

    This morning’s superscary warning to Scots that er..the rest of the UK will be up a certain creek if we vote Yes brings to mind the issue of BBC Scotland’s ‘referendum trainees’ imported from the Shires.

    I mean, how much training does it require to coach Pippa, Poppy and Prue to endlessly repeat ‘There’s a warning this morning that Scottish independence will..’. A parrot could do it, and it would probably refrain from pronouncing ‘Scotland’ as ‘Scutlin’ to boot.

  217. Edward says:

    I see the state broadcaster giving lots of air time to the First Sea dog Efrem Zimbalist (previously seen in 77 Sunset Strip and Maverick)spouting absolute guff all from the establishment point of view of how little the UK (hasn’t anyone told him the UK will end as such) will be.

    What struck me is that he is actually our servant and not the other way around. It was bad enough having the old retired buffers getting column inches, now we have a serving officer poking his head in, because he wants to appear important in the world and continue to attend various cocktail parties.

    The First Sea dog states that the Navy would be less efficient and weaken defence. Really? is he not aware that currently there are NO maritime patrol ships or aircraft based in Scotland, despite the fact that Scotland having the largest coastline in Britain. Is he oblivious to the fact that the Russian navy sailed into Scottish waters TWICE unchallenged, because we don’t have effective naval patrols?

  218. Red Squirrel says:

    According to the Telegraph comments, Portsmouth would be thrilled to have Trident.

    Anyone up for crowd funding the gift wrap? I’d even add a great big bow – provided they’re gone by the end of the year.

    Ps First Sea Dog chappie – frankly Scotland would be better off with a couple of rowing boats & a set of binoculars. It’s all about you again and your pathetic needy whiny plea to keep the permanent UN Security Council seat that clearly means so much.

  219. HandandShrimp says:

    The Scottish Defence naval strategy is to have a surface fleet of 4 frigates and two OFPs, that is 6 boats more than the UK provides for Scottish waters at the moment. Instead of moaning about having to get off their butts and think about alternatives they could view this as an opportunity to have a friendly neighbour that is prepared to pull its weight and defend their northern flank from incursion.

    Where they stick Trident is up to them but a lot of naval types would sooner have the money spent on bolstering the diminished surface fleet rather than spend £100 billion on another white elephant that has no practical use.

  220. HandandShrimp says:

    PS I was predicting over on the Groaniard the other week that it would be Defence’s turn on the Fear Factory Roundabout soon. I am delighted to see that they are utterly predictable.

  221. seanair says:

    Edward, Would I be wrong in thinking that England gives more attention to protecting Gibraltar than Scotland?

  222. Morag says:

    Remember I said I’d re-tuned my radio alarm to Radio 3 to avoid all the doom and gloom on GMS? Well it’s not working.

    This morning I wake up to “See the conquering hero comes” which is inclined to make me want to vomit, followed by “Independence for Scotland will destroy the Royal Navy!” The news on Radio 3 only lasts for about two minutes, but they got it in all right.

    Then a piece of exceedingly crappy music written by Henry VIII (fair enough) but that was a trailer for some series of programmes beginning “Great British…” something or other.

    I didn’t hear any more as I was cleaning my teeth.

  223. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @seanair says:
    Edward, Would I be wrong in thinking that England gives more attention to protecting Gibraltar than Scotland?

    You are not wrong. The proof is here:-

    http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/8718-russian-ship-in-moray-firth-uk-intelligence-was-alerted-by-social-media-admits-hammond

  224. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie:, “However, ever the pedant, you might want to look at ‘saught’ and ‘afirmative’ again”?

    Point taken, ronnie, I’m working just now under a great handicap. My main, video editing desktop is sick and I’m editing video on my PVR while computing with a tiny ancient netbook running XP. Sans normal spell/grammar checks. As they say on TV, “it’ll be all right on the night”. At the moment I just need to know if the format, youtube uploads and ideas work well and are good or bad ideas. Thank you for your input.

  225. caz-m says:

    Training Day

    You will probably find that the young luvvies sent up from BBC England to train in Skutlin are the offspring of BBC staff that are employed in London.

    Did they advertise these BBC Scotland vacancies in Scotland. If so, then we must have a right bunch of losers up here, because not one Scot was successful.

    This is relevant to the Armed Forces debate, because ALL those top jobs go S E of England, Home Counties hooray henrys and henriettes.

  226. John H. says:

    Seanair 9.11am.
    And a lot more attention to protecting the Falkland Islands.

  227. Marcia says:

    Re the Navy. I am always amused of the building of an aircraft carrier that wont have any planes to take off or land on. However this is a waste of taxpayers money that we are all having to pay for. That topic that should be included into the debate.

  228. Famous15 says:

    I once went on a day trip to Gibralter from the Costa del Sol. It was very British and full of thieving monkeys.

  229. Ravelin says:

    The sum total of the UK’s airborne maritime patrol capability are, as far as I know, two twin engine turboprop aircraft operated on behalf of Marine Scotland (a Scottish Government agency) primarily for fisheries patrol work. In reality one of the aircraft is often on patrol around the English coast as the equivalent organization down there no longer flies it’s own aircraft and sub-contracts the work to the Scottish aircraft.

    http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/316008/g-smmb-scottish-fisheries-protection-agency-reims-f406-caravan-ii/

    The reality is that the Scotland and it’s water would be much better defended and patrolled by a proper Scottish Defence Force. One where the need to ‘project force’ around the world or ‘fight terrorism’ in places like Afghanistan was vastly reduced or removed completely!

  230. Barontorc says:

    Just as well we’ve got CalMac in the RNVR and the Waverley’s always got steam-up in season. Does this navy plonker chappie even know that the russkies were popping in occasionally, quite unhindered – maybe they got permission from Barrhead Travel (Political Division).

  231. Training Day says:

    @caz-m

    The BBC has clearly decided to send their brightest and best (i.e. Oxbridge graduates from the Home Counties) up to Scutlin to cut their teeth on this referendum business (thereby giving us a clear idea of how much importance the organisation affords to this novelty exercise in Jockish unrest, soon to be quashed).

    Once that experience is gained, they can return to cover important things in London like Farage and Kate Middleton.

    It’s the equivalent of putting up an NUS Labour rep against the FM in his seat to ‘gain experience’.

  232. caz-m says:

    Marcia

    Problem solved, they bought 50 Joint Strike Force jets for £5 Billion pounds. That’s £100 Million pound for EACH jet.

    And they are still going to have landing problems.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/10/navy-jets-cant-land-hot-weather

  233. Dcanmore says:

    One thing I’ve noticed in recent months is how more extreme the comments are getting on the BBC website when relating to Scottish issues. There is some real batshit crazy ones over this ‘Sea Lord’ intervention on how the RN would be diminished. This is the grassroots of the BT campaign, British Nationalists who reside outwith Scotland. I think my favourite so far has been: “If Scotland goes independent then all the barracks and airfields should remain English soil.” Typical mindset of a deluded southerner aka a UKIPPER.

  234. X_Sticks says:

    “Scottish independence: Yes vote ‘would harm navy'”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27030447

    Comment open to whole UK (as usual)

  235. caz-m says:

    It’s difficult getting my head round what I just typed in that last post about the price of ONE jet for these new aircraft carriers.

    £100 Million Pounds for EACH jet.

    And here was me thinking the UK was skint.

  236. fairiefromtheearth says:

    For Fekk sake people i was called a racist unionist provicator last nite on this site yous better all calm down or the book burners will be on to you 😉

  237. fairiefromtheearth says:

    and for the people that went over the top with me 😉 wee winky smile means i was joking do you get that a JOKE 😉

  238. jingly jangly says:

    JLT Had a very long conversation with my landlord when I arrived in Scarborough Saturday, took me over an hour from checking into Boarding house to get to my room!.

    His Wife is Scottish and he comes up occasionally and obviously his in-law’s are not well educated in the debate, he was all about the currency, Europe, the Lotto, BBC, in fact every BT Scare story going, as I said it took me over an hour to explain the facts to him. He stil wasn’t happy!!!

    In the pub I was interrogated relentlessly by friends I see there several times a year, friends who have never broached the subject before so obviously the pace is hotting up.

    Re Fields of France and Waltzing Matilda, I agree that they are two of the best songs ever written, I have never got round to seeing Eric Bogle in concert but must make the effort the next time he comes home to Scotland from Australia.

  239. Papadox says:

    @marcia 9:30 am.

    We have 2 carriers under construction not 1.

    You don’t let these things wonder about on their own, they sail in groups with frigates, oilers and probably 1 or 2 submarines for protection.

    I believe from Wikipedia RN currently has 6 destroyers and 13 frigates, some of which will be under refit or maintainance at any one time.

    These carriers appear to be expensive paper tigers which have no practical application with the military forces we currently posses. What they will ever use them for is a puzzle unless they are for political vanity. To show we are GREAT BRITAIN!

    The only practical purpose of these units is the employment they are creating during their construction (not a bad thing). Think BIG GORDY ordered them. Maybe I’m just a synic!

    What they do with them when they are finished is another question, even if they can get some aircraft for them.

  240. ronnie anderson says:

    @Robert Peffers 9.20 ,yes auld bob it is a good idea,an I

    hope you know the differance between Ronnie & myself am no

    a ( pedant ) ah hiv trouble wie the ( ped ) bit of the word

    if you see me walking you’ll understand, its in that song

    Do The Huckle Buck. as said good idea keepit up.

  241. Flower of Scotland says:

    O/t YES campaign to advertise on Dundee buses has been scuppered by the bus company! The Courier gleefully reported this.The Dundee yes campaign should post and share the contract because this company have accepted advertising from Labour and SNP in the past but because it’s a referendum it’s not allowed. What !! More Bias !

  242. Mary Bruce says:

    It is now obvious that the BBC website comments are only switched on when there is a co-ordinated UKOK fear-bomb attack going on. And all the BT staffers are all on standby to get in with their bile and up-ticks.

    This latest onslaught has been in the planning for weeks (the wee BBC helmets cartoon is evidence for that), with the full-scale carpet bombing of military scare stories having been scheduled for this week a while back. The BBC have been in on it from the start, there is absolutely no doubt that they are in close discussions with Better Together in the planning and timing of these attacks.

    Next week it will be the pensions. The BBC are at present putting the final touches to their wee pensions info-cartoon before sending it off to Westminster for approval.

    None of it has worked in the past. Not sure why they thing moving it up a gear will have any effect this time either. Any don’t knows that I’ve been speaking to are just getting fed up with it all.

  243. orker says:

    “Women For Independence Our Voices Fundraiser” breaks through the 20k barrier.

    Well done girls!

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/women-for-independence-our-voices-fundraiser/x/2348668#home

  244. ronnie anderson says:

    Just signed in to Bbc comment useing my Face book ID, they then want you to sign up for a Bbc account, are they on a
    Email gathering execise.be aware be very aware.

  245. Edward says:

    Flower of Scotland
    What would really really be helpful would be, as well as a copy of the contract accepted , would be some nice pics of previous buses with Labour and or SNP advertising
    The combination of contract and previous occasion pics would be the crème caramel 😉

  246. “These carriers appear to be expensive paper tigers which have no practical application with the military forces we currently posses.” Papadox, could not agree more. Now they have gone and spent 5 billion on fast jets that cannot operate in hot weather.

    Will somebody please buy them a copy of “Defense strategy for Dummies”.

  247. ronnie anderson says:

    16 ships & submarines in Scotland, they feking STEALTH

    boats must hiv sunk,no having the ability tae see each

    other,an 2 RN commando units,but their in Camaflage,so

    they canny be seen either.

  248. Weedeochandorris says:

    @Ronnie thanks for the vote of confidence 🙂

  249. Andrew Brown says:

    To Andrew Morton at 3:05 pm yesterday, hope you don’t mind but I have also used your comments in emails to my MP and MSP (both Labour). I doubt I’ll get a reply from either of them but one never knows. Thanks.

  250. cirsium says:

    @seanair, 9.11am

    Protecting Gibralter is a priority because this is where the GCHQ taps into fibre optic cables to harvest data/spy on Europe for the NSA.

    The following is an example of a different set of priorities – the Norwegian Coastguard arrived as soon as a Chinese ship entered the waters off Spitsbergen. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/growing-chinese-interest-in-the-arctic-worries-international-community-a-879654.html

  251. Grouse Beater says:

    Never listen to a man in a uniform with epaulettes on it.

    All he wants is your money to buy the latest toys.

  252. CameronB says:

    I appear to be banned by the BBC. Did all the necessary registration, but I just can’t get in. I reckon the Gruniard had a word with them. Paranoid? Moi.

  253. I have never taken any interest in politics until recently. But the fear and scaremongering of the pro unionists and the number of times i have seen Scot mp’s talk Scotland down has angered me so much i looked into things more. Boy was that a mistake…… A country with our potential run down to a bunch of scroungers and slackers.

    Disabled bullied and blamed for all the problems with welfare, Foodbanks and poverty everywhere and most of all the lack of hope for our young who have little job prospects (OH lord save us the 70’s back with a bang)

    We can do so much better with a wealth of resources , people being the most valuable. Instead of taking the scraps from what is now a London State. And i have a lot of sympathy for the NE of England too. We have a chance to finally shake of the shackles from a government that pampers the rich and slags the poor.

    I was never in favour of independence thinking (wrongly now i see) we were stronger together. Now partly due to taking time out to read things for myself i see with a yes vote we can build a Scotland with a future rather than the nightmare of a bitter together.

    My two sons (tradesmen lucky to get apprentices) have struggled to get work here often working in England to get a wage. If they have struggled what then the young without trades. I see nothing from the better together mob other than blaming them for being lazy or workshy. No solutions or plans to help.

    And the lies every day on tv , radio, newspapers lies lies lies. We can do much better on our own and to be honest can we really do worse. I doubt it.

    Keep up the good work everyone on WOS. You changed my way of thinking and a year ago i would have laughed if you said i would vote yes. I will be voting yes in the knowledge that Scotland will be better in every way. And doubt very much i will be the last one to think this way.

  254. Fergie35 says:

    Hi Edward,
    (Edward says:
    14 April, 2014 at 7:43 pm
    Fergie35
    Do you have the name of the German regional newspaper?
    Perhaps we can track down where they are sourcing?)
    The paper is called the Schwarzwald Bote



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