Scottish independence, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Crash point zero

Posted on April 19, 2013 by

We’re not impartial witnesses, of course, but we suspect even the most unbiased observer would struggle to dispute that the last 12 hours have seen Scottish Labour’s most spectacular on-air implosion since Iain Gray’s infamous Hindenberg disaster in the wake of Wendy Alexander’s “bring it on” brainfail of 2008.

For openers, a pained and ghostly-looking Johann Lamont on Scotland Tonight. (Starts at 0:51, continues for about six toe-curling, slow-motion minutes. Audio-only recording here for when the video is no longer available on the STV website.)

angryjohann

Then some desperate stalling from Anas Sarwar on Newsnight Scotland. (We’ve linked to a bit four minutes in, which lasts until the end about eight minutes later.)

anassarwarnewsnicht

But the glorious piece de resistance is unquestionably Johann Lamont being speared, skinned and filletted by David Miller on Good Morning Scotland. (The first two minutes or so are a bit slow, but you really need to hear all of the 10 minutes following them.)

And if you don’t have the time to watch/listen to the whole 24 minutes of those right now, here’s all three appearances compressed into just nine seconds.

To be honest, further commentary from us seems superfluous.

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115 to “Crash point zero”

  1. Training Day says:

    I can only repeat my comment on another thread that today David Miller is a credit to his profession.

    But I wonder if he is already in the Boothman office..

  2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I can only repeat my comment on another thread that today David Miller is a credit to his profession.”

    Yep, did a great job. Slipped up slightly when Lamont tried desperately to muddy the fact that John Mann had called Ian Taylor’s cash “dirty money” (or is she REALLY thick enough not to know? It’s plausible, I guess), but otherwise top-notch interviewing.

  3. Juteman says:

    I’m actually at the cringing stage when Slab robots get interviewed.

  4. Ananurhing says:

    I reckon Miller will be getting his arse kicked right now. Good on him.
    When Lamont finally got round to saying anything of any substance on GMS, it sounded to me as if she was simply absolving herself of any responsibility for Taylorgate, and dumping Darling in the shit. An obvious recognition that this is only going to become more and more toxic.  

  5. Indy_Scot says:

     
    Just watched the clip of Johann Lamont. I am not sure if it is her monotone drone or not, but I could not understand a word of what she said.
     
    If I was a voter who was undecided, I would vote Yes just to get her to stop speaking.
     

  6. Paul Martin says:

    Look at Lamont and Sarwar in those 2 pics. They say the eyes are the window to the soul don’t they…
     
    …currently both these souls look to be undergoing a state of torture. If they can’t even convince themselves with their own lies, then no-one else out there is going to buy it either.

  7. mato 21 says:

    What the GMS interview showed to my mind is how seldom they have done an in-depth interview with Labour especially after all this time David Miller still referred to David instead of Ed Milliband as leader
    Hope this is a start but like with the Herald I won’t hold my breath

  8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “If I was a voter who was undecided, I would vote Yes just to get her to stop speaking.”

    See also: Sarwar, Jackie Baillie, James Kelly. I’m honestly quite surprised a party as media-savvy (at UK level, at least) as Labour allowed people with such hideous, contrived speaking voices to be its public face.

  9. scottish_skier says:

    Just watched/listened to both.
    This seemed appropriate.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDCr0wQ1uvk
    Nice foot tapping tune too.

  10. pmcrek says:

    Interestingly, Sarwar basically stated a UK Labour Government would be cutting the same as the Tories but wouldnt have cut the top rate of tax. Brewer then failed to stick the boot in over such an admission.

  11. mato 21 says:

    Poor Izzy appears to have been demoted to newsreader

  12. Silverytay says:

    Johann is no raving beauty but in that picture it looks as though the strain of being the puppet master for labour north britain is getting to her .  Others on this site are asking ‘ will johann and ed still be in charge next year ? as far as I am concerned ‘ I hope they stay in their posts until 19/09/2014 ‘ what better recruiting agents could the YES campaign ask for .

  13. Jiggsbro says:

    Sweet baby Jeebus. Do the media not have ethical standards? Why wasn’t there a vet standing by to put these poor, dumb creatures out of their misery?

  14. pmcrek says:

    Oh and Lamont actually said “I will tell you this!”

  15. YesYesYes says:

    Things have come to a pretty pass when a deputy leader of the ‘Scottish’ Labour Party can’t even explain what a “progressive income tax system” is. The best that slippery Sarwar could come up with is that “we would not have scrapped the 50p tax band”. But wait a minute, something’s not quite right here.
     
    After 1997, Labour was in government for twelve years, twelve whole years, before it raised the top rate of tax from 40p to 50p. In the 1997, 2001 and 2005 British general elections Labour explicitly pledged that it would not increase the top rate of tax from 40p. When Alastair Darling introduced the 50p top rate of tax in 2009, it was meant to be only a temporary measure, in response to the economic meltdown that had occurred under his chancellorship.
     
    The real reason Labour eventually raised the top rate of tax to 50p in 2009 was in response to the public outcry at the huge bonuses that bankers had earned under Labour – averaging £12 billion per year between 2001-2008 – while Labour had used taxpayers money to bail out the banks. For Sarwar to attempt to use Labour’s desperate and opportunistic increase in the top rate of tax to 50p in 2009 as a principled means of distinguishing Labour from the Tories, only underlines the contempt that Sarwar has for the people of Scotland, Scottish Labour really does think that we are as dumb as they are.
     
    I notice on Twiiter that the Rev has drawn attention to Lamont’s mistaken reference to “the Labour Party in Scotland”. This latter was the alternative name that was considered when the ‘Scottish’ Labour Party was formed in 1994. The latter name was chosen because it was believed that it would give them a clearer identity in Scotland than the former, in anticipation of devolution. Here we are, nineteen years later, and none of us still have a clue what ‘Scottish’ Labour’s policies are on, well, anything. Nice to have on record, though, that Lamont thinks that Better Together shouldn’t return Ian Taylor’s dirty money.    

  16. Gayle says:

    Do you think someone should tell Lamont that constantly pressing the stress relief points on the hand doesn’t inspire confidence? 

  17. Inverisla says:

    Could not believe David Miller’s GMS interview this morning. Splendid. I think he missed a trick in delivering the coupe de grace when Lamont started on the SNP trying to shut down the debate, he could have gone in with Ian Taylor trying to shut WoS and NC.

  18. mealer says:

    Time for Ms Lamont to get back into her George Square bunker.Its a bit of a dilema for the Main Stream Media.The public have begun to notice them giving the NO camp an easy ride in interviews,so theyre having to put a little pressure on them to maintain atleast a veneer of credibility.But as soon as theyre asked to expain their position,they fall to pieces.Its getting a wee bit tricky for the MSM to handle to Londons best advantage.

  19. Jeannie says:

    I wish one of the media interviewers would now ask Labour why, when they could have supported the SNP at Westminster in opposing the reduction of income tax from 50p to 45p, they failed to do so, despite insisting they were and presently are against the reduction.  Their present claim to be against the tax reduction rings hollow in the light of their actual behaviour when they had a chance to oppose it.
     
    Would someone of competence out there in the media please take them to task on this and ask them why we can now take them seriously on it when they demonstrably lied about it before.

  20. FreddieThreepwood says:

    Robbie Dinwoodie gets to report on Alex Salmond accurately and the BBC skewers Scottish Labour … repeatedly!
    It’s such a nice day, I think I’ll take a picnic out to watch the pig flypast.

  21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think he missed a trick in delivering the coupe de grace when Lamont started on the SNP trying to shut down the debate, he could have gone in with Ian Taylor trying to shut WoS and NC.”

    To be fair, that one has plausible deniability – though clearly bollocks in reality, BT can nevertheless retort that Ian Taylor initiated legal action, not them.

  22. Jiggsbro says:

    BT can nevertheless retort that Ian Taylor initiated legal action, not them.
     
    By their funders shall ye know them.

  23. Ananurhing says:

    Ooooh! Sarwar! That was cringeworthy. I’ll bet he was crouched down, hands over his head Basil Fawlty style after that. The only thing he acheived was to make a convincing argument against hereditary MPs.

  24. Cath says:

    “What the GMS interview showed to my mind is how seldom they have done an in-depth interview with Labour”
     
    There are some ways in which the media bias – especially in the past couple of years where the media and politicians have entered a twilight zone bubble – really helps the YES case. This is one of them. The media never hold unionist politicians to account, or do in-depth interviews, but praise them in a very North Korean kind of way. I’ve lost count of how often I’ve read in the Scotsman, Telegraph, Guardian etc what a wonderful leader Johann Lamont is and how she bested Salmond at FMQs.
     
    I imagine there are people out there within Labour and the UK media who have paid little or no attention to Scotland but simply live in their little Better Together Westminster village bubble. A through-the-looking-glass world where Labour in Scotland are “the biggest party” (it still says that on their website), the SNP is a blip, a protest vote, all Braveheart nationalists. But it’s all in hand because Labour have wonderful leadership who are continually showing Salmond up for the brainless, despised idiot dictator he is and the polls the media constantly produce re-affirm all that, so there’s no reason for them to pay attention.
     
    One day – perhaps today is the day or perhaps not – they’ll wake up and see the reality, and realise that they’ve helped create it.

  25. Macart says:

    Oh………. my…………Gawd!
     
    I know we have some serious problems with the beeb, but they earned their crust last night and this morning. That was two of the most fabulous train wrecks I’ve come across in a long time. This past fortnight has been utter carnage for BT and those two interviews were the cappers. They’ve blown their case for the union almost completely out of the water and it came down to two simple questions.
     
    Just what is the benefit of devolved income tax? In both interviews.
     
    Does Ed know? Interview 2.
     
    Absolutely priceless. :D

  26. Really disturbing that its like being drawn to watch, not one train wreck, but two. 
     
    With respect to matters of leadership and/or running a country, it is clear that neither are fit for purpose.

  27. NorthBrit says:

    @Ananurhing
    I’m imagining the aftermath was something like this:

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8s_mJp6FSc#t=120s”

  28. Stuart Campbell,
     
    “But the glorious piece de resistance is unquestionably Johann Lamont being speared, skinned and filletted by David Miller on Good Morning Scotland . . “
     
     
    Yes, I think Miller was a little bit PO’d by her arguably snide remark after she pulled him up for misnaming Milliband Jnr., “David” (or was it “Dave”).
     
    Anyway, it was immediately after that that he brought out the hammer and the boards and the nails, and crucified her.

  29. muttley79 says:

    Of the three TV and radio interviews I thought the GMS interview with Lamont was by far the worst.  The other two were very bad, but the radio interview took SLAB’s direness to another level.  There can be no doubt now that they have no vision, no basic articulacy, no ideas, no strategy, no policies.  All they can do is attack the SNP.  That is the only political function that they can fulfill.  However, even this is based on a negative, they hate the SNP.  This is a party that was born from the industrial struggles, massive levels of poverty, and injustice, of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.  Today they are nothing more than a zombie party.  

  30. Ananurhing says:

    NorthBrit.
    Hilarious! An omnishambles all round last night. To quote Malcy Tucker, I reckon BT will be saying ” Fukkitybye ” to Taylors £500k soon enough. Maybe we should run a sweep on when.
    I’d put my money on it being done by May 4th. That’s quite an auspicious date.

  31. Macart says:

    @Christian Wright
     
    Know what you mean. I was horrified, but couldn’t pull my eyes or indeed my ears away from the carnage. :)

  32. Cath says:

    BT can nevertheless retort that Ian Taylor initiated legal action, not them.!”
     
    Except they can’t even do that. Because in their haste to bash NC and go nyah-nyah at the Yes campaign, BT were all over the legal action, saying it proved NC were lying. Also, both Rob Shorthouse and Blair McDougall sent near identical tweets seconds apart saying NC were about to pull “a stunt” before any of it was public. 
     
    A semi-professional campaign would have distanced itself from the whole thing, not waded in with size 10 boots to kick one side of it. By their own desperation and uselessness, they have entirely wedded BT to Taylor, and to his action against NC
     

  33. Adrian B says:

    Yes, I think Miller was a little bit PO’d by her arguably snide remark after she pulled him up for misnaming Milliband Jnr., “David” (or was it “Dave”).
     
    The thing that struck me (other than the apparent car crash that is JL) was Miller  going on about “did we report this right”, I take it Labour often use this phrase about things the BBC report? I thought that was rather revealing. 

  34. Edulis says:

    O/T
     
    Just listening to Brian’s Big Debate from Inverness -on-Crouch. Typical BBC Scotland -3 Unionists and Rob Gibson for the SNP.
    The audience seem largely against self determination, more concerned with the usual claptrap of pensions unsustainability and keeping Trident to protect us against rogue states like N Korea.

  35. Castle Rock says:

    I can smell rebellion in the Labour ranks and I don’t think Johann is going to last much longer.
     
    If we follow the downward spiral of regional Labour Leaders in Scotland then next up is…
     
    James Kelly!
     
    (stop sniggering a the back please)

  36. bunter says:

    @muttley
    Zombies have a better sense of direction..lol

  37. Tattie-boggle says:

    Has anyone watched the truth team video SHOCKING

  38. Davy says:

    Ha HA HA  I loved it, After watching Sarwar on Newsnight last night looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights I thought it couldnt get any better, but I was wrong. What a cracker by lamentable Lamont on GMS this morning.
    Thankyou very much for this Rev, its really made my day.
     
    Alba Gu Brath.
     

  39. Steve McKay says:

    Miller the killer!    
    Ace interview – holding our elected representatives to account and no mistake!
     

  40. bunter says:

    Possible damage limitation interview coming up BBC Scot @1.30pm. Brian Taylor Vs Lamont. Wont expect too much.

  41. HandandShrimp says:

    All in a very good week but I guess we need to make sure that the public consciousness is raised to ensure that while we may be happy it doesn’t simply slide by unnoticed. Another of those very funny Youtube films pointing out the highlights of recent events would help. People don’t like to be preached at (sorry Rev) but they do like to be entereducated (I think I may have just invented that word).

  42. Jiggsbro says:

    Also, both Rob Shorthouse and Blair McDougall sent near identical tweets seconds apart saying NC were about to pull “a stunt” before any of it was public.
     
    Precisely. They knew their principal funder was about to use his money and power to try to close down the debate and they attempted to blame the opposition for their funder’s actions. The money should go and they should go with it.

  43. Turnbull Drier says:

    I’m stuck at work and can’t watch/listen till I get home…
    You lot are certianly builing this up tho. It can’t possibly be *that* bad, can it?
    Do I need a sleeve to laugh up? Or should I just move the coffee table out the way so that I have plenty of room to roll about in?
     
     
     

  44. Adrian B says:

    After the Sarwar ‘interview’ (loosely applied term) on Newsnight, there was a short piece about a book called Scotland’s Choices which featured on of the books authors Iain McLean. The book is available to buy, however the hardback is a bit expensive. It might be worth a few of the more interested people who comment here purchasing the paperback for reference.
     
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Choices-Referendum-Happens-Afterwards/dp/0748669876/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1366366322&sr=1-1&keywords=scotlands+choices

  45. I’m stuck at work and can’t watch/listen till I get home…You lot are certianly builing this up tho. It can’t possibly be *that* bad, can it?Do I need a sleeve to laugh up? Or should I just move the coffee table out the way so that I have plenty of room to roll about in?
     
    Lamont was ground to powder.

  46. pmcrek says:

    Tattie-boggle
    Nah, I refuse to watch videos that disable comments and ratings.

  47. EdinScot says:

    Just listened to the GMS interview with Lamont.  Laugh, i nearly pished masel.  If it wasnt so serious it would be comedy gold.  To hear Lamont talking about shutting down debate was an open goal for any broadcaster or journalist, just not the Unionist variety aka the BBC.  Its twilight zone stuff from Labour.  There is a grave threat to Scotland.  If you vote NO next year, Labour and the Unionists will wreak their special brand of carnage on you and no mistake.  I honestly cant beleive how bad Lamont and Sarwar were in these interviews.  I think they need to set up a commission to look into the lack of answers these two gave!  The glaring irony is that it took place with their fiercest protector and ally the BBC.  I wonder if their mps and msps are under orders to throw in the word ‘Scotland’ as much as they can…in an attempt to hoodwink the population into believing Scotland comes first with them when we know the reality is that the UK interest trumps us every time.
     
    O/t, A friend just informed me that a work colleague has just informed him briefly that ipsos mori have just carried out a new poll/survey at the behest of the Labour party and she says its not good news at all for Labour in Scotland.  Awaiting more information.

  48. McHaggis says:

    Danger here is that some viewers/listeners will fear that with the lack of quality on display, Scotland couldn’t be trusted to run itself… better to stay with the real MP’s in Westminster.

    We have to be careful with this kind of thing.

    What was glaring though was the complete and utter lack of any Scottish Labour policies in any of the interviews… just soundbites, discussions and consultations. Completely devoid of real, workable Scottish commitment in any way, shape or form.

  49. Training Day says:

    No one with any intelligence or integrity who is still a member of ‘Scottish’ Labour can do anything other than join Labour for Indy or leave the party altogether after hearing these interviews. It really is that stark.

  50. Ed Miliband Tony Blair, Alistair Darling, Alex Ferguson, your boys just took one helluva beating!

  51. HandandShrimp says:

    McHaggis

    “Danger here is that some viewers/listeners will fear that with the lack of quality on display, Scotland couldn’t be trusted to run itself…”

    Ye Gods! Is that their game…it sort of makes sense when you think about it. Nobody could be that incompetent…could they?

  52. Craig Evans says:

    I watched the Sarwar train crash on the Iplayer then listened to the Lamont fall off her bike at lunchtime.
    I never thought I’d say this but “well done BBC Scotland”  They were totally destroyed.
    Oh Joy!!

  53. JuanBonnets says:

    Fantastic from David Miller! Though how scary is it that we’re all so shocked and surprised at a BBC Scotland interviewer asking the hard questions of the Labour party?
     
    The end of the radio interview though, on the ‘dirty money’ donation – “eh, it wisnae me, ah dinnae ken, it was all yon Cap’n Darling’s fault so it wis”. That must be part of her desired “debate and dialogue about accountability” that she repeatedly meandered back to when she didn’t know how to answer any real questions. Brilliant.

  54. Castle Rock says:

    @McHaggis
     
    Or alternatively, it just might ram home that Labour can’t be trusted with politicians like Lamont, Ian Davidson, Alistair Darling, Margaret Curran, Anas Sarwar, Jackie Baillie and the next regional Labour Leader in Scotland James Kelly (bless).
     
    I understand the point you are making and it can sometimes be a fine line but people need to see what it means if Scotland goes down the Labour route.
     
    Fear is a barrier to be overcome, if we don’t address it we continue to live in it.
     
     

  55. MajorBloodnok says:

    I managed to listen to the GMS interview – I’d add ‘flayed’ to the Rev’s list of Lamont’s suffering. In fact I was laughing out loud and face-palming in the office here.

    What’s interesting is that Labour is focussing solely on that most macho of taxes, Income Tax, as it still seems to see it as the ‘iconic’ headline-making tax that can be manipulated to make or break a government. Income tax may be of prime concern to Mail-reading Middle England but things are different in the north.

    If Labour really was concerned about the poor and suffering in Scotland they would realise that devolution of welfare and benefits and the ability to protect directly those on low incomes and the unemployed is what most people in Scotland, and particularly Labour’s constituency, are really worried about.

    But of course you can’t devolve welfare without devolving taxation and vice-versa, or why not just call it independence?

    Still, Ed (or is it Dave) will ride up to Inverness on his white millipede, slay the salamander by comparing him to Thatcher (whilst deifying Thatch to his other constituency) and make everything in Scotland all right again. Won’t he.

  56. bunter says:

    Strange, seems BBC has pulled the Lamont interview with Brian Taylor advertised @ 1pm. Showed the footage then all we got at 1.30pm  was a piece to camera by Glen Campbell.
    Maybe it needs to be heavily edited first!

  57. Yesitis says:

    The debate. Debate. We in Labour. The SNP stifling the debate. Alex Salmond. The debate….debate. The debate.
     
    Labour want a debate. Really?
    After that?
     

  58. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Danger here is that some viewers/listeners will fear that with the lack of quality on display, Scotland couldn’t be trusted to run itself…”
    Ye Gods! Is that their game…it sort of makes sense when you think about it. Nobody could be that incompetent…could they?”

    It’s not a new theory:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/stupid-stupid-stupid/

  59. YesYesYes says:

    ‘Scottish’ Labour just keeps giving and giving. More comedy gold here:
     
    http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/s/Truth-Team-Launch/
     
     Their Pravda Team 2014 seem to believe that they’ve struck a critical blow against the Yes Campaign with their assertion that: “they [the SNP, note] promise you independence will be whatever you want it to be”. But if you think about it, one of the strongest reasons for voting Yes is that, with independence, we will get the government that we vote for in every single general election not, as in the UK, the government that we vote for once in every fifteen years on average.
     
    Independence will be what we make it, so to that extent it will be whatever we want it to be. Isn’t this infinitely preferable to the present situation where, as part of the UK, Scotland has become what we don’t want it to be? So that’s the choice then. With independence, we can make Scotland whatever we want to make it, or with the UK we can watch Westminster turn Scotland into something that we don’t want it to be.
     
    But the piece de resistance has to be slippery Sarwar’s assertion: “That is why Scottish Labour recognises its responsibility to be honest in everything we say and do” (2.53 in to the video). That one should really come with a PC health warning: Do not drink any liquids while listening to this.              

  60. alasdair says:

    I heard her on Radio Scot this morning and was practically in tears of laughter, it was absolutely unbelievable pish, the real concern is that there might be someone, anyone, out there that would actually believe what they were hearing.
     
    I’ve got a lot of respect for the guys on Good Morning Scotland, I think they generally do a good job and are willing to cut to the chase regardless of who they interview or the political party they’re from.  Folks at the BBC though, given that they’re are a news organisation, must have been fairly astonished and possibly even concerned by Taylor’s recent attempts and BT’s seeming endorsement of him.

  61. dmw42 says:

    Bottom line here folks is that both pots of jam (Ruthie’s and Johannie’s) haven’t been vetted or agreed by their London masters, and are unlikely to get any sort of hearing at all until after 18/9/14.
     
    “there are so many unanswered questions and the people of Scotland deserve to know these answers” (Davidson, Lamont, Rennie, Darling, McDougall, Sarwar et al…)

  62. CameronB says:

    Do SLaber have a theme tune?
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR2aJDlZA5s

  63. Arbroath1320 says:

    oh Jeez!
    My sides are killing me!
    How on earth do these people get let out at night?
    What is it with the “2014 Truth team” video?
    3 minutes 30 seconds of which around 3 minutes is just a sustained anti SNP attack. Not much time left for the TRUTH here then!
    As others have said there really can NOT be many GENUINE Labour supporters left after these episodes last night and this morning. Some one PLEASE tell me that even the die hard Labour supporters have finally woken up to the fiasco that is Labour in Scotland!
     
    Turnbull Drier BEFORE watching or listening to these “interviews” I would STRONGLY suggest moving your coffee table. You are going to need all the room you can get. Oh and make sure you have a medical team on standby to assist you with your aching sides when you are done! :lol:

  64. Jiggsbro says:

    As others have said there really can NOT be many GENUINE Labour supporters left after these episodes last night and this morning.
     
    I’m betting there’ll be plenty who neither saw nor heard them. And of the ones who did, there’ll be plenty thinking that Johann and Anas did well, getting their points across despite being bullied by the presenters who didn’t want to let them speak.
     
    Never underestimate the human mind’s ability to distort reality to match its preconceived ‘truth’.

  65. dmw42 says:

    Turnbull Drier – “should I just move the coffee table out the way so that I have plenty of room to roll about in?”
     
    There’s a good chance you’d laugh so hard you’d fall off the floor. Do not attempt to eat or drink while watching / listening. Carpets and furniture can be very expensive to clean, and there’s a good chance you’d choke yourself.

  66. Vronsky says:

    At all times the best referendum strategy for the Unionists (by which effectively we mean Labour) is to stay below the radar.  They start from a winning position, a position they can’t improve upon  – but they could throw it away.  Any progress for the Yes vote will originate from disillusionment with the alternative. BT will be realising right now that they should have nipped Donationgate  in the bud – returned the money and told Taylor to button his lip and keep his lawyers on the lead.  Too late now – both Darling and Lamont are on public record saying that the money will not be returned, and even the MSM normally unquestioningly loyal to them are blinking.  
     
    This won’t go away, it will be thrown in their faces at every opportunity.  Similarly, the seemingly countless proposals for Jam Tomorrow lead only to unanswerable questions – they’d be better to drop that whole thing too.   Say nothing, do nothing, promise nothing, leave support for the Union where it is.  Open their foolish mouths, and the walls begin to crumble.  

  67. squarego says:

    As a former Labour voter, I’d like to say to all my former comrades…
    “Everybody out!”
     

  68. muttley79 says:

    @major
     
    If Labour really was concerned about the poor and suffering in Scotland they would realise that devolution of welfare and benefits and the ability to protect directly those on low incomes and the unemployed is what most people in Scotland, and particularly Labour’s constituency, are really worried about.
     
    Any proposed political settlement for Scotland that excludes North Sea Oil revenues, Welfare, Corporation tax etc is simply not going to cut the mustard at all.  The problem for the No parties has been that voters in Scotland have shown that they want a Scottish Parliament with extensive powers.  This has been shown in polls and surveys for a number of years.  The fact is that they cannot deliver this for a variety of reasons.  The tactic that Vronsky mentions would not work either because Scottish voters will not vote for the status quo (not in enough numbers anyway).  The White Paper on Independence, released towards the end of the year, will I reckon be as close to Devo Max as possible.  It will be a very moderate version of independence.  This is because the Yes campaign want to attract as many supporters of Dev Max as possible.  They know that the hardcore/convinced independence supporters (around 30%) will vote Yes anyway to a moderate vision of independence. 

  69. Ken Mac says:

    Can’t remember the last time I enjoyed a couple of TV and radio interviews so much! Car crash doesn’t even begin to describe it.

  70. Jimbo says:

    Labour want to have a debate and listen to the People of Scotland to see what they want. How long has the Labour Party been in existence, and why is it only now they pretend they want to hear what the people of Scotland have to say? 
     
    They seem to want change for the sake of change, but don’t seem to know, and can’t give a credible reason why they want it. Anyone who believes their mealy mouthed words probably also believes in the tooth fairy. 
     
    This is the first I’ve ever heard of David Miller. I was impressed. it’s a pity that, when it comes to interviewing Labour tapeworms, we don’t have more like him.

  71. muttley79 says:

    @Jimbo
     
    Labour want to have a debate and listen to the People of Scotland to see what they want. How long has the Labour Party been in existence, and why is it only now they pretend they want to hear what the people of Scotland have to say? 

    They know fine well that the people of Scotland want the Scottish Parliament to have extensive powers.  This has been shown for a number of years in polls and surveys.  The feigning of ignorance over this issue, and the repeated calls for a debate (they simply do not want one anyway) are not acceptable anymore.  They are just digging an ever deeper hole for themselves.  Their only objective is the preservation of their own careers in both London and Edinburgh.  There can be no other credible reason for their behaviour over the past decade in relation to the issue of Scottish autonomy. 

  72. The Dog says:

    Re the Truth Team video
    http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/s/Truth-Team-Launch/
    I’m being really silly here but at 19 seconds in they have set up the graphic so that it advocates “No to devolution” and “Yes to separation”
    Or is it just me?

  73. robbie says:

    Has Johann Lament been biting her finger nails?
    They did look very short when she was using the (im an idiot) hand movements to try and look important.
    Wee Johann handed the YES campaign tons of ammo.
     
    In real terms ,she should be thanked for her woeful contribution of why Scotland should remain to be shafted by her london masters.
     
     
     
     

  74. Patrick Roden says:

    What a car crash by Johanne, And Sarwar surely wasn’t expecting any difficult questions, as he simply didn’t have any answers pre-prepared.
    Do politicians not usualy have some pre interview briefing where they try to second guess any hostile or difficult questions and have pre prepared answers ready?
    Something tells me Labour have stopped doing this in Scotland when being interviewed by the BBC. I wonder why?

  75. The Dog says:

    Just had a quick look over at Moridura
    http://moridura.blogspot.co.uk/
    If we vote no we get Devo Minus
    I think this phrase might have the legs to run for 500 days
    Get the word out!

  76. Patrick Roden says:

    Something has just occured to me in relation to these ‘New Powers’ that Labour is promising.
    Brewer had a very telling line when he asked Anas if he ‘waqsn’t just hanging onto the coat-tails of the SNP’ and Anas looked very uncomfortable.
    If I am not mistaken Johann was asked to reply to a similar line of questioning, ie why are you devolving this when you haven’t even implimented your last set of proposals etc.
    Now the Polls are apparently showing that Unionism is by far the most popular choice of voters in Scotland, so surely if this is True then Labour must know that people are happy with the powers they have?
    Or is it the case that since Polls showed that the majority of people in Scotland wanted far more powers for Scotland (devo-max) and that the referendum result may very well depend on where this large group of people decided to cast their votes,  that the Labour Party/Better Together campaign teams are getting data back suggesting that most of the ‘more powers’ group have became don’t knows and that the majority of them are intending to vote Yes?
     
    Why would a campaign that is so far ahead in the Polls, opt to change the political landscape that the majority of people who have said they would vote for.
     
    It doesn’t make sense. 

  77. Jeannie says:

    @The Dog
     
    Is it narrated by John Michie from Taggart, do you think?  It’s certainly murder!

  78. robbie says:

    Michie was londonised years ago.
    His fake drone has spoilt many a documentary.
     
    Eastenders token Scot is really a Brit/nat.
    Or has he shifted to Corry st?
    Who cares.
     

  79. muttley79 says:

    @Patrick Roden
     
    Or is it the case that since Polls showed that the majority of people in Scotland wanted far more powers for Scotland (devo-max) and that the referendum result may very well depend on where this large group of people decided to cast their votes,  that the Labour Party/Better Together campaign teams are getting data back suggesting that most of the ‘more powers’ group have became don’t knows and that the majority of them are intending to vote Yes?
     
    They should have known that Devo Max supporters might end up supporting independence, as it is now the closest available option to them.  The Unionists were transparently happy to reject the second question.  It shows they have virtually no political acumen.
     
    There is a new article on the Guardian.  It is open for comments.
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/19/scottish-labour-leaders-income-tax

  80. ewen says:

    Any non stv player links to the lament interview? I live abroad and can’t be ersed setting up a proxy server.

    Oh and the guardian article photo. Bit too risque, that. where are Eds hands?

  81. wee folding bike says:

    I notice she turned the Mann quotation into a swipe at the SNP saying they had apologised. As I understand it this was in relation to an error made by the Herald.

  82. DMW42 says:

    Howf drinkers should have a look at a post I’ve put in Quarantine

  83. Jiggsbro says:

    I see Ed castigated Alex: “”His is a narrow nationalism that prays for Tory success so that he can convince people that the only way to get rid of the Tories is to get out of the UK … Have you ever heard such a selfish, self-serving, narrow-minded blinkered piece of nonsense?””
     
    Well, yes. Ed. I have heard such selfish, self-serving, narrow-minded blinkered, nonsense. It comes from people who insist that Scotland should suffer from permanent Tory government so that England can occasionally have Red Tories instead of Blue Tories.

  84. Macart says:

    @Rev Stu
     
    Correct me if I’m wrong Rev but this section from a new Guardian article by Severin Carrell seems to be at complete odds with the line Anas Sarwar was trying to pitch last night.
     
    In an effort to play down anxieties that the proposals had been already accepted by the party’s leadership, Anas Sarwar, Scottish Labour’s deputy leader and effective head of the party’s 40 MPs, insisted he was not yet persuaded that entirely devolving income tax was necessary.
    I have yet to make my mind up,” he told the Guardian. “The commission has looked at it and said that there’s a strong case around the accountability argument but we have to look at how this would work, and how it would affect Scotland and the UK.”

    At least I don’t recall any doubts voiced by Mr Sarwar at the time.

  85. Patrick Roden says:

    @mutley79
    Yes they should have known, but they were lead up the garden path by Alex Salmond, when he let them believe he wanted devo max, on the ballot paper. they fell for this hook line and sinker and opposed it, falling into what must be the most obvious political bear trap this planet has ever seen lol.
     
    The thing that is interesting me, is the sudden feeling of panic that is eminating from Labour/Better Together, they know they need to do something to stop a rise in support for Independence. I think we can all feel this rise is happening, but this rise doesn’t seem to be reflected in the Polls that keep being produced.
    maybe Scottish Skier has the answer, but I just feel we are being lied to, as far as these polls are concerned.
     
    They know the one thing they must prevent is the feeling of a groundswell of support for independence…just saying like !

  86. gman says:

    Yup, the swerve from Lamont to brush off the Mann quote of “Dirty Money” as some kind of miss-quote from SNP which resulted in an apology was astounding.  Two separate events, as she well knows.  She won’t even admit that Mann made the comments!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9569231/Vitol-faces-questions-on-trade-with-Iran.html

  87. scottish_skier says:

    but this rise doesn’t seem to be reflected in the Polls

    Yes, it is, but only if you look at all of them (and avoid ‘poll of polls running averages unless the person knew what they were doing when averaging).

    Since October 2012 the polls have turned it would appear. Yes is not sky-rocketing , but is up 3-4%. More obvious is a decline in No, which is down at least 5%, likely more. The Edinburgh Agreement seemed to be the turning point; the UK was not going to fight seriously nastily, but would accept the result. Dave normalised a Yes that day.

    Yes was ahead of No in late 2011 on the back of failed New Labour, a return of the Tories and a landslide SNP win. We then had a year of panic (2012) as to what indy really means (jubilympics had naff all effect). That panic seems to subsiding as folk watch stories develop combined with the case for staying in the union hardly positive.

    Recent developments should have a big impact. We may now see things accelerate more rapidly. There’s already evidence that is happening.

  88. muttley79 says:

    @Patrick Roden
     
    Yes they should have known, but they were lead up the garden path by Alex Salmond, when he let them believe he wanted devo max, on the ballot paper. they fell for this hook line and sinker and opposed it, falling into what must be the most obvious political bear trap this planet has ever seen lol.
    I have to admit that I fell for Salmond’s whole ‘I want a second question, particularly Dev Max’ line has well.  It was only after reading articles by the likes of Rev Stu, Peter Bell, Doug the dug on here and other sites, that I realised that it could not be delivered.  I take some consolation in the fact that the entire MSM fell for it as well, and they get paid for it!
     
    On the polls I used to think that they were biased or misleading as well.  However, reading what Scottish Skier has said, I think it is more to do with the fact that there will be voters who privately know they will, or at worst are pretty sure they are going to vote Yes, but who would not yet have told the pollsters.  I don’t want to misrepresent S_S but I think that was one of the points he has made.  Apparently before the 2011 elections SLAB still had a lead at the end of 2010, but that their vote was very soft.  I think he thinks that is the case with the indepedence referendum.  However, he and Rev Stu are good at the reading of the polls so I will leave that there.  

  89. Galen10 says:

    @scottish_skier
    I really hope you are right; in conversation with some of the folk at Yes Scotland they are very keen to keep their campaign relentlessly positive, as they feel that plays better to women and undecideds who will have a pivotal role. I can’t help feeling they are pulling their punches and could do with being more combatative… but hopefully the media wonks know what they are doing?
    They certainly seem to think things are about to change, and given #donorgate, the split between Labour MSP/MP’s, Thatcher’s funeral, the recent figures on Scottish unemployment figures being better than UK one etc…. maybe they are right?

  90. orkers says:

    I read somewhere that Johann has a BA (Honours) Degree.
    Were they they giving them away free with ten empty crisp pokes
    when she graduated?
     

  91. scottish_skier says:

    @Galen10

    We can attribute reasons to swings in polls only speculatively, but make a fairly good guess.

    If we get a run of polls that buck the trend, I’ll stand corrected. Otherwise, the trend is No going down from peak and Yes rising since October last year.

    There’s been 31 Y/N of use since May 11. I have them all in front of me, poll geek that I am. These tie in with VI – SNP vs Lab VI of course – too.

  92. Patrick Roden says:

    @ Mutley79 & Scottish skier.
    I’m sure I once read a article about political scandals that suggested that:
    If a scandal can be burned out before ten days, a politician or political party can survive it, but if the scandal runs in the media etc for more than ten days, it will do lasting damage and any action taken to minimise the damage after ten days, will often make the matter worse.
     
    I just wonder if this is what Labour analysts are finding about ‘Taylorgate’ ?
     
    Something is going on that is bad for Better Together and Labour and I must admit that I waken up in the morning now and can hardly wait to find out what gaffe the BT campaign has made that day lol.

  93. gman says:

    You can’t be negative and untruthful in a long burn campaign.  I hope next Lamont interview asks exactly same question about the Mann dirty money quote.  The don’t know excuse can only be used once.

  94. Geoff Huijer says:

    What dreadful performances!
     
    Is this really ‘Scottish’ Labour’s Leader speaking?
     
    Surely not; I think it must have been some wee wifey that was passing
    on the way to the shops that got dragged in to do the interview. After all,
    the BBC have a track record of doing that kind of thing.
     

  95. Jiggsbro says:

    I read somewhere that Johann has a BA (Honours) Degree.
     
    MA from Glasgow. History and English (presumably literature, not language).

  96. Ron Burgundy says:

    Difficult to know where to begin. I cannot remember such a patethic and hapless performance from two individuals who claim to lead “Scotland’s biggest political party”
    Sarwar cannot answer why income tax and only income tax should be devolved or explain how such a measure on its own will benefit Scotland. Under pressure, his words just come out in a clumsy disjointed way which do not hang together logically.

    Lamont too, cannot say how the proposal in isolation will deal with the economic crisis or give reasons why welfare is not devolved or even say if Milliband in London or the SLAB M.P.’s support the idea anyway. Drivels on meaninglessly about the voluntary sector and housing
    Both robotically repeat and lather their replies with buzz words about “conversations”, “debates”, “communities”. Both do not reply in real English in terms that people understand and identify with. Lamont in particular seemed to be slurring her words and pronouncing want as “wunt” all the time. Very strange, I could not understand that. I feel genuinely sorry for her. Someone in London Labour needs to say enough is enough, it is no longer funny. However the poor soul is such a huge asset for YES Scotland that we would miss her greatly

  97. kininvie says:

    I think polls are unlikely to give clear guidance. This is not a normal election campaign. This is a life-changing heads & hearts vote. It’s fear versus hope, and it will go right down to the wire. Every mark on the ballot paper is not just something we are doing for ourselves, but for our children and their children.
    The constant demand to know what will heppen with independence reflects this. People are fearful of change, even where they distrust the status quo. So, at the polling place, it will be ‘I believe’, ‘I’ll risk it’ ‘I don’t dare to choose’ ‘It will all go tits up’. We’ve seen that there’s no positive case for the union, but I would argue that there is a negative one.
     
     
     
     

  98. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Geoff Huijer-
     
    Thanks for posting that clip. 
     
    The guy did well in the circumstances. You have to feel for the intended interviewee, sitting in a nearby room watching it, knowing that his friends and family are watching his big moment being broadcast globally, live. And then, to cap it all, the next interviewee agrees with what’s just been said!
     
    In the months and years to come we’ll see montages of BT stutters, gaffes and bloopers with just as much entertainment value.
     
     

  99. Patrician says:

    I wonder if the interviews were just a public display of Labour in-fighting.  It has been mentioned that some Labour MPs are not happy about recommendations from Lamont’s commission, so what we were seeing was internal feuds being aired.  I think Lamont will be lucky to see the end of this year as nominal head of “Scottish Labour in Scotland”

  100. Adrian B says:

    @ Patrician,
     
    You might want to read Fridays Guardian article if you haven’t already. Someone did link to it earlier.
     
    “Senior Labour figures at Westminster believe it could undermine the UK and serve the interests of nationalists. Some were furious the report was given to the media before being discussed within the party; they insisted the proposals were described as outline and consultative, rather than decided.”
     
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/19/scottish-labour-leaders-income-tax

  101. Patrick Roden says:

    Some good points on this thread.
     
    Are we seeing the ‘diminision returns’ problem comming into play for the No campaign?
    A few people mentioned that negative lies and smears would only enjoy a limited shelf life, before people would begin to see through them. 
    Even the MSM have been mentioning lately, that BT needs to stop being so negative and begin to explain why Scotland would be Better Together etc.
    Maybe some of the MSM are begining to worry about the fact that they are being accused of being part of the lies, smears and negative spin, that is resulting in the people of Scotland being denied the information that they are consistently saying they want.
    Well the past week has been fantastic, Johann has crashed, Anas has crashed, Taylorgate is going strong, NC are back with a bang, The MSM are at last asking challenging questions of BT and Labour, Splits are emerging in the Labour Party and may even spread to the BT campaign, and last but not least, our shall we say more divisive posters are hardly posting on threads in which Taylorgate and the car crash interviews are discussed. :-)
    long may it continue.
     
     

  102. Patrician says:

    @Adrian B
    Thanks for the link, i had seen the link earlier in the thread but hadn’t bothered to follow it.  It is an interesting read and I think I can speculate from it that BBC Scotland is the property of the “Scottish Labour in Scotland’s” MPs.

  103. douglas clark says:

    I don’t know, really I don’t, but this seems like a disaster happening for ‘Better Together’.
     
    Correct me if I am wrong, but the internal politics of the Labour Party appear to be more important to some of them than any sort of discussion about what is best for us.
     
    I cannot abide the idea that we should take sides on the Lamont -v- Darling spat.
     
    They are two sides of the same coin. They both want to ally with rich people to mess with our brains.
     
    What’s to choose?
     
    I really can’t see the point about anyone caring whether Lamont has the soul of the Labour Party in her hand, unlikely as that might appear to be, or whether Darling is indeed an honourable man.
     
    One can’t stick a coherent thought together and neither can the other one.

  104. molly says:

    A post on Guido(got to do something while waiting for the kettle to boil ) ‘University of Bristol Professor Mark Wickham Jones doing an analysis of Labour Party membership figures in Dunfermline during Gordon’s time as their MP at yesterdays One Nation Conference’

    “The reality is the grass-roots model is gone, I think. I mean,you know Dunfermline – Gordon Browns constituency Dunfermline- had nearly 1,000 members in the mid 1990s. At the time of the Labour Leadership election when they gave us fantastic data-which they’ll never do again-it had 163 members.Where did those people go ?”

    It would be interesting to see the official number of Labour Party members in Scotland (I appreciate obviously you don’t have to be a member to support/vote for them ) but if Dunfermline is a reflection ,it does explain a little why the desperate need for S Labour to be part of the UK ,part of something bigger to still be relevant.

  105. john king says:

    “See also: Sarwar, Jackie Baillie, James Kelly. I’m honestly quite surprised a party as media-savvy (at UK level, at least) as Labour allowed people with such hideous, contrived speaking voices to be its public face.”
     
    But thats all they have, rev, the best minds bugger off to westminster and the toon cooncelors are left to hold the fort, 
    the SNP’s back benchers are political giants compared to this lot of oompaloopas (apologies to both 
    Roseanna Cunningham
     and any and all oompaloompas out there) 
      

  106. john king says:

    I spent two years posting on the scottish telegraphs site as jdman and fought the good fight, and was (among others such as valeman, conan the librarian , rolf the ganger, ) asked why I take my message to the “enemy camp”
    and responded with what I felt was a perfectly reasonable response when I  said what’s the point of sitting around complaining to each other when we would be better served by taking the message to the opposition,  (you never know you might pick off a few stragglers)
      then I read something like this 

    Sweet baby Jeesus. Do the media not have ethical standards? Why wasn’t there a vet standing by to put these poor, dumb creatures out of their misery?”
     
    and then snnaaaarrrff hhhhhmmmmpppphhh realise they might have had a point all along mmmmmhghhhaaaaahaha ha ha ha ha
     

  107. john king says:

    “Yes, I think Miller was a little bit PO’d by her arguably snide remark after she pulled him up for misnaming Milliband Jnr., “David” (or was it “Dave”).

     Anyway, it was immediately after that that he brought out the hammer and the boards and the nails, and crucified her.”
     
    that was painfully obvious to me as well Christian, she clearly spoke to him as if he were one of her school kids and rebuked him for a slip of the tongue 
    (personally I don’t think it WAS a slip of the tongue ) in my opinion he was looking for an excuse to nail her and she fell for it (gaun yersel wee man) I actually thought she might give him lines.

    btw give me your lines I’ll do them for you

      

  108. john king says:

    now they can smell blood in the water ,will the journalists in these people resurface and begin to do what they are trained (and paid for) and circle the floundering seals that are the labour party and eat them alive?
     
    I do  hope so , it would make jolly good television maybe we could get Attenborough to do the voice over? 

  109. john king says:

    “Poor Izzy appears to have been demoted to newsreader”
     
    what goes around comes around, 
    in an independent Scotland I envisage her being head of news in an independent SBC 

      

  110. john king says:

    “Danger here is that some viewers/listeners will fear that with the lack of quality on display, Scotland couldn’t be trusted to run itself… better to stay with the real MP’s in Westminster.
    We have to be careful with this kind of thing.”

    On the flip side if the (big hitters ) in London want to stay in politics post a yes vote they’ll have to stand for Holyrood or forever shut their traps, 
    the we get the sight of anus and Joanne doing what they are best at, getting the tea and biscuits

    they could get Bailey to hold the dartboard, maybe get Curran to
    red lead the steps outside the front door replete with headscarf

  111. heraldnomore says:

    and what would young Master Baker be doing, one wonders……

  112. Seasick Dave says:

    I thought that Johann Lamont reminded me of someone in that picture and then it hit me…
     
    http://www.sirlistalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/were-rabbit.jpg

  113. Holebender says:

    Sarwar & Curran are Westminster MPs. Rather disproves the theory that all the brightest and best are in Westminster, don’t you think?

  114. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Lamont –  and I will tell you this. Straight out of Rab C. O dear o dear.



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