Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Conflicting reports

Posted on June 29, 2014 by

It seems somehow fitting that there was a political battle in Stirling yesterday. The city was host to two sets of military-themed festivities, with the UK government having decided to hold Armed Forces Day there in a move transparently aimed at wrecking the commemorations of the 700th anniversary of the Battle Of Bannockburn.

The anniversary was obviously on an immovable date and location, but the Labour-Tory coalition that runs Stirling Council, and which last year attempted to replace a Saltire which flies over the statues of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce with a Union Jack – a plan it abandoned after it was highlighted by this site – agreed to host the competing festival on the same weekend.

bblive

Armed Forces Day had free admission to undermine the relatively pricey Bannockburn event. Labour even went so far as to actively try to put people off attending the latter, with Glasgow MP Ian Davidson suggesting that the commemoration was nothing more than a glorification of the murder of hundreds of thousands of English people”. (These particular “people” being an invading army, actual English casualties around 10,000.)

The press covered the subsequent downsizing of the historical recreation with glee, with numerous articles reporting low ticket sales and other problems right up to the eve of the show, which appeared about to be a major flop.

But then something odd happened.

forthpol

All of a sudden, Bannockburn Live was a sellout. It wasn’t thanks to the BBC, which had TV and radio location crews in Stirling reporting on Armed Forces Day every 15 minutes on the BBC News channel, but without mentioning Bannockburn Live at all.

There were occasional passing references to “other events”, but we had the channel on for five hours and the word “Bannockburn” was never used. It was rather like having three broadcast teams covering the Glastonbury Village Church Fayre during the Glastonbury Festival weekend, and vaguely acknowledging that there were competing attractions to the bric-a-brac stall and the vicar’s tombola but never saying what they actually were.

In fairness, the BBC eventually reported from Bannockburn this morning. But it did so in the context of some rather striking media coverage.

Most papers described attendances of “over 10,000″ at Bannockburn on Saturday, a figure which ought to be correct as it’s easily verifiable from paid ticket sales. Indeed, there were reports in several papers of long queues and dissatisfied customers being unable to get into the battle recreations, which raised questions about how the event would have coped with the higher capacity originally planned.

Meanwhile, the media uniformly quoted numbers of “more than 35,000″ for Armed Forces Day, but those seem rather harder to back up. The BBC website, for example, ran an extensive gallery of pictures, but crowds were conspicuous by their absence.

afd1

afd2

afd3

afd5

afd8

The pics showed a plentiful supply of current and former members of the armed forces themselves, but the marching ranks appeared to considerably outnumber those watching them, where there were any spectators visible at all. The only shot of a sizeable turnout of members of the public was one depicting what the BBC called “explosive military demonstrations”.

afd6

We’re no experts, but it’s hard to reasonably place more than 2000 to 2500 people in that picture. It’s cut off at the left, but as it appears to be people standing in a flat field rather than in any sort of grandstand, it seems unlikely that there would be many more out of shot, as they wouldn’t be able to see anything.

[EDIT 3.26pm: full uncropped pictures of the area here, which to our eyes suggest a total crowd of somewhere in the vicinity of 3000 at the busiest point.]

It’s hard to work out what the criteria are for the media documenting large gatherings of people. Last year’s independence rally on Calton Hill, at which the police gave an estimated 20,000 attendance figure, got less than a minute’s coverage on the BBC, balanced by almost as much airtime given to a deeply suspect “Better Together” leafleting event which involved a total of five No campaigners.

More recently, the state broadcaster drew thousands of complaints for almost completely ignoring an anti-austerity protest in London with 50,000 marchers, having given considerably more coverage to a pro-cuts demo which attracted just 350 people.

We weren’t in Stirling yesterday, so we don’t know how many people turned out for Armed Forces Day, but there seems to be no evidence available anywhere which would lead to any reasonable interpretation that it was even remotely close to 35,000. (The population of the entire city is only 41,000.)

Stills and video footage alike show scattered handfuls of spectators, even at the start and end points where you’d logically expect the biggest concentrations, and with multiple crews in place and dozens of reports throughout the day you’d have thought the BBC would make sure to get some good crowd shots were there any to be had.

Armed Forces Day has been explicitly used as an anti-independence political tool since the beginning, and the Prime Minister continued the process yesterday. But even backed by £400,000 of public money and free to attend, it seems to have been something of a damp squib, while Bannockburn Live – attacked by the Scottish press for months on end – was packed out on both days.

The media seems to be engaged in a frantic attempt to cover those facts up. But it’s hard to get pictures to tell lies.

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  1. 29 06 14 16:35

    Some Battles Are Worth Remembering | A Wilderness of Peace

  2. 13 07 14 16:18

    The value of an independant Scotland for me - naked ALM - Experts in ALM, TFS & lean-agile with Scrum

  3. 20 07 14 13:43

    The value of an independent Scotland for me - naked ALM - Experts in ALM, TFS & lean-agile with Scrum

441 to “Conflicting reports”

  1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Scotland 1 Cameron 0

    Why do I get the feeling that there is a real deep-seated YES feeling in Scotland.

    Rolling thunder?

  2. Brian Powell says:

    Strange the BBC haven’t yet worked out lying isn’t working when the real people are doing something different, in reality, from the narrative they present.

  3. Members of my family went to Bannockburn Live and said they noticed lots of people wearing “Yes” badges etc; as far as they could tell, there wasn’t anyone wearing “No” stuff.

  4. James Sneddon says:

    Proof, as if any was needed, the role of the BBC in promoting UK govt agenda. I’ll try to find the link but wee Owen Jones of the Guardian did a great job of ripping the BBC a new one when discussing BBC bias on the BBC. O/T but while on holiday I had a lovely cuppa tea and a chat in Dunkeld last Friday at YES cafe held in the British Legion (ah the irony). A brilliant idea. Kudos to Dr Ew and the gang for organising the event.

  5. robert urquhart says:

    Maybe the 35000 included all the services personnel taking part. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to msm. Like the wizard of oz. Some egomaniac hiding behind the scenes pulling the strings.

  6. heedbaw says:

    I thought those pictures on BBC site were a bit empty of crowds too. Had me wondering if they just used the population of the areas that passed through as a rough number, as anyone in the area at the time could be said to be attending the event.

  7. Gordon Hay says:

    The phrase used in SoS is “more than 35000 LINED THE STREETS” and there, I think is the answer – they have estimated the number of residents of the roads the parade went down and who (may or may not have) watched it.

    They are trying to give the impression that this was the on-site attendance without actually lying about it. No change there, then.

  8. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    heedbaw

    Including the folks at Bannokburn?

  9. jake says:

    I know plenty of yes people who went to both events mainly because the 2 were in close proximity, if it hadnt been for the Bannockburn commemoration there would have been even less at the armed forces day.

  10. pete says:

    I’am sick as a pig l could not attend Bannockburn, my wife is sick in bed, and on top of that it’s my birthday to day , ps I have been sickend by Stirling labour council, and will never ever forgive them for what they have done, there should be a public inquiry after the yes vot. To see just who sanctioned this timing
    of these events. It is bloody scandalous. Name and shame. Any way who in there right mind celebrates the beginning of a war ??
    One the took the lives of millions of young men??? I can understand the celebration of winning a battle of an enemy thats attacked you on your land. I just think its all about the great brittish achievements of killing millions???

  11. Footsoldier says:

    Posted in the previous topic in error, here it is again. If you want to see propaganda in action, have a look at the links below.

    First link from The Herald. the second from Daily Record(also in page 4 of Scotland on Sunday today).

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/pm-and-salmond-hail-armed-forces-as-thousands-gather-for-forces-and-bannockburn-celeb.1403967346

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-sparks-clash-david-3783632

  12. laukat says:

    I was at Bannockburn Live yesterday. I would have estimated 10,000 people in at any one time with more than that coming and going over the day. I suspect the number of purchased tickets would be at least 15,000 but probably closer to 20,000.

    Couple of things I would point out.

    The re-enactments could only hold 3000 and we couldn’t get into the one at 2pm and the number dissapointed for the 4pm show was larger. The tents and other events were very busy. So from that alone you get at least 5000 people were onsite at these times.

    Second thing is there were huge fields of parked cars and the traffic on the way home was fairly recognisable as being in attendance at Bannockburn due to following them out the event and the yes stickers on the cars. If 35,000 people had been in Stirling for AFD how did they manage to get home? There was no visible presence of traffic other than that coming in and out of Bannockburn Live

    Last thing – David Torrance was beside us in the queue. My Dad said him to that he recognised his face from the TV and said to him that “are you not one of no voters?” to which he replies (with a straight face) “I am professionally neutral”. How we laughed! Didn’t know David was branching out into comedy!

  13. Harry McAye says:

    Disappointed that the Sunday Herald also went with the 35,000 figure.

  14. Flower of Scotland says:

    I used public transport to get to Bannockburn yesterday. I was very anxious about getting there because I thought that the bus would be full for the Free AF day . I think that there were 4 on the bus from St Andrews to Stirling. The town was NOT busy and I couldn’t understand where the crowds were! This was at 1pm!

    The buses to Bannockburn Live from Stirling at that time were advising people NOT to go if they didn’t have a ticket because it was sold out!

    It wasn’t the best organised event and the rain was atrocious with no effort having been made for shelter in case of bad weather! However it made my day when exiting the ground we were met by the First Minister, Alex Salmond who had hopped over to see us all at BL. He is looking extremely well, much better than on TV! He shook hands and even did Selfies with some folk. All in all a good day!

  15. Brian Powell says:

    The Battle re-enactment enclosure held three thousand it was full, each time, 3 times,during the day.

    However there was also a fascinating medieval village to look around, the US Clan homecoming visitors with around twenty tents, the main sound stage with all day music, the smaller story telling stage, the children’s area, a craft area, a great farmer’s market, huge food tents, a couple of bars.

    One of the most poignant moments for me, was when the Clay County Sherriff’s Dept Pipe Band(from Florida) finished their set with Flower of Scotland, which they sang.,

    The leader said, “You will all know this song and are welcome to join in.”

    What made it poignant was I just got the feeling that they thought there was this great bold Independence movement going on, and there is, but not quite the way they imagine.

    They couldn’t know that the Stirling Council was, in it’s petty, malice ridden way, trying to stop any suggestion of Scotland as a country.

  16. gordoz says:

    Was at Bannockburn live yesterday (Excellent even through the showers) and chatted to a very relieved Fergus Ewing MSP who stated that the park had a capacity of 10,000 which it had easily achieved by mid-day.
    Mr Ewing also suggested reports of 2,000 – 2,500 attending the other event in Stirling.

    Great news as he intimated that the armed forces day was a deliberate stitch up by the MOD and Stirling Council, who sprung this manipilation very late in the day in terms of organizing.

    All of the residents in Stirling should remember this shower who control your council and never forgive them for such a sour base political stunt.

    Anyway REV – please try and source a picture of the English guy wearing the England Top with the massive blue YES badge opposite the ‘3 lions’ he was with YES mates and would make a very excellent picture for a blog piece. (Wife had my camera when I bumped into them).

    Somebody will have a pic of it Im sure and could forward to you.

    Massive ammount of YES badges at the event; very heartening.

  17. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    OT

    The Sunday Post, this week anyway, seems to have crossed over a Yes position. 4 main articles all pro Yes.

    Wonder if they have seen the Sunday Herald’s rising sales?

  18. The Man in the Jar says:

    I am just about to leave for the PQ demo.

    Hope to see you there! :-)

  19. macart763m says:

    Here’s the thing.

    They fooled no one.

  20. TheGreatBaldo says:

    I thought the ‘old paratrooper braking with protocol’ (spontaneously of course) to warn the PM about the Union breaking up was the most audacious/comically inept piece of set up fluff I have ever seen.

    You should really accompany this with a video of the entire the BBC news piece shown after the football last night.

    It is jaw droppingly bad !!

    Imagine if you will a mash up of one of those trashy sentimental US TV movies you get on daytime Channel 5 and “The Day Today” as written by Torcuil Crichton and Alan Cochrane.

    And all voiced over by a plummy matron type….

    God knows what unintentional comedy gold they have planned for Rory the Tory’s ‘Standing on a wall miles away from Scotland’ thing in 3 weeks time.

  21. eezy says:

    A guy I know passes the AFD site on his way home from work. Each night it was lit up with soldiers setting the event up.
    M.O.D. budget to fund this too.

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Maybe the 35000 included all the services personnel taking part.”

    I have a feeling it included the residents of every house the parade marched past.

  23. joe kane says:

    The BBC deliberately manipulated the images it used of that notorious over-hyped London anti-cuts rally to censor out how badly attended it was. Compare the BBC space-filling coverage with this single image –
    350 anoraks at pro-cuts rally fail to fill allotted area
    Political Scrapbook
    14 May 2011

  24. heedtracker says:

    Worst example of bettertogetherBBC black out propaganda, this weekend. We’d have gone if we had known it was so much more than Bannockburn re-enactment. Thats what ukok BBC blackout propaganda is all about sadly. That grinning Pacific Quay clown James Cook was very BBC weird yesterday, trying to NOT even say the word Bannockburn all day yesterday. What a bunch.

  25. starlaw says:

    Once again the supporters of King Bruce won the day at Bannockburn. . . Can we now call this the second battle of Bannockburn

  26. Capella says:

    I posted this on a previous thread = sorry to repeat but i did the math!
    Are we still on crowd numbers? I did a quick count of the crowd in photo (enlarged) linked to above john king 7:15 am
    Heres one from AFD
    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75908000/jpg/_75908160_explosion.jpg
    The crowd on the left is by far the greatest number of people. I counted 50 in a row. Difficult to asses how many rows but let’s be generous and say 10. That makes 500 people. The right hand crowd is much sparser. Let’s be generous again and say 200. That makes 700 people visible in the only photo of the crowd available. So unless there was 1500 people in the beer tent, the 2,000 figure is quite optimistic.

  27. kev says:

    I attended Bannockburn live and there were members of the armed forces there too. Just saying.on my way now to Pacific Quay to see the BBC!

  28. gordoz says:

    Forgot to say a really big thanks to the English crew who supported the Bannockburn event and were very humoruous throughout. Particularly liked the bit when a knight was asked about the result and Englands terrible losses on the day.

    ‘Well at least we came second here (technically), didn’t we? Unlike that other lot !’ :)

  29. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I think the spoiler succeeded because what was sold out was a considerably scaled-back Bannockburn Live. Threatened with a free event expecting 50,000 attending “in the next field”, the BBL organisers cut back a lot. (Also they had funding cut and the money given to AFD instead.)

    I wonder if part of the reason for some failings in organisation at BBL yesterday was that the organisers had been discouraged by all the media bashing going on, and didn’t believe they would achieve the attendance they actually attracted?

    If the original event had been allowed to go ahead unhindered (and AFD had been organised in Portsmouth where they would probably have had no trouble getting 50,000 people), and properly promoted and supported by the press, it could have been an event to tell your grandchildren about.

    So the Stirling councillors succeeded in spoiling two events. Well done them. Will they have shifted anyone towards a No vote or away from a Yes? I very much doubt it. It was nothing but petty spite.

  30. Adrian B says:

    Craig Murray has posted some pictures from the AFD in Stirling yesterday.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/what-2000-people-look-like/

  31. Dave says:

    Thanks for this report Stu. Looked all over the web but the MSM are being very coy about the turnout for the armed forces day. The pix I have seen have more ‘royalty’, politicians and service personnel than Joe public. I would imagine most of the crowd were relatives and friends of the marchers.

  32. Lamia MacDonald says:

    One thing worth mentioning is the fact that a lot of the Armed Forces displays could be seen from people’s homes without attending the event, or indeed could be seen FROM BANNOCKBURN. So from the POV of living in Stirling, it seems to me as though a lot of people didn’t bother going to the actual event because they could just stick their heads out their windows to see the Red Arrows.

  33. George Scott says:

    I really wanted to take my wife and son to Bannockburn live but to be honest £60 for the three of us was out our price range, my son who has mobility problems would only have been able to last 2-3 hour then we would have had to leave.
    We put him in his wheelchair and pushed him from the town to the HM forces day at the back of the castle , I must admit the crowds were large but this event was not geared towards disabled people . The access was very poor no disabled car park signs until you got to event. They had so many people inside the event you couldn’t get the wheelchair round. So we about turned and went back to the smiths museum and took our boy round the bannockburn exhibit . So he did get to Bannockburn in a roundabout way
    #YES
    PS not one Saltire on display

  34. bookie from hell says:

    @sunday event

    Huge queues

    saw re-enactment battle/amazing pageantry battle weapons both sides

    the medieval village tents are good,weaponry,English &scots,food,falconry

    all historic,no hate of English

    FOOD IS GREAT,ON MY 2nd steak

  35. RC says:

    The BBC is increasingly resembling the football commentators from Escape to Victory.

  36. Capella says:

    @ Gordon Hay 12.48 The phrase used in SoS is “more than 35000 LINED THE STREETS”
    Take a look at the photos of the street parades. They are close cropped and that is probably because there weren’t many people on the streets. The entire population of Stirling is 45,000 and it doesn’t look as if many were out on the streets.

  37. Grouse Beater says:

    I was on my way in the hope of adding another sold ticket, doing my bit for Scotland’s dignity, aware the event was “50% undersold,” but on entering the controlled access roads was turned back – “Fully subscribed,” “Sold Out.”

    Being yer normal parnoid Scotsman I thought this to be another British Together scam and, leaping upon my High Horse, (a Clydesdale, of course) dressed in full armour and broadsword hired at great expense from my theatrical costumers, and my mother for sliver wool knitted gloves that look like armour, I argued blind that tickets were free to passing down-and-outs and crows as a way of gaining spectators! So let me pass!

    Grossly undersold that morning, yet by the afternoon …

    Going back towards Edinburgh was easy – no “vast numbers” to negotiate on their way to the Armed Services blunder.

  38. Nuada says:

    I wonder how many here are old enough to remember the trouble the BBC used to get into during the Falklands War, when they committed the cardinal sin of actually attempting to present news, instead of just propaganda? Back then, they used to have journalists working for them. Curious, is it not, that nobody in the Tory Party (or Labour, for that matter) seems to have any problem with the way the BBC of today is covering the campaign. Norman Tebbitt must be content at last.

  39. handclapping says:

    What’s all the stooshie about? The 35000 figure is MoD, probably the least accountable department after the Treasury, so divide by 12 as we had to with the set-up costs.

  40. Gordon Hay says:

    @ capella

    That was my point. I wasn’t seeking to excuse the use of the 35,000 figure, so perhaps I should have written “residents who may have, but probably didn’t, watch”

  41. heedtracker says:

    @ Nuada, the BBC stank back then too with their jingos send off for “the fleet.” Nothings changed though, mind the SUN “Gotcha” and St Tatch hitting her fire all torpedoes for teamGB button. It still creeps me out. Radio 3’s does a lot more ukok real world stuff than any other of their shite channels but they had on an ex fighter pilot Falklands vet lately, explaining how he had strafed lines of Argentine army tents, shooting at the soldiers running from the canon fire but getting hit. Then he said he knew they were all junta conscripts.

  42. Capella says:

    See BBC News on yesterdays shenanigans.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-28062712
    James Cook’s report does appear to mention Bannockburn though I can’t be sure. In my browser (Chrome) the AFD video covers up the bit of his report that mentions it!

  43. john king says:

    According to wikipedia the population of Stirling is 45.750 and the greater Stirling area has a pop of over 89 thousand.

  44. Capella says:

    Oops – video has now moved to top of page and I can now see that he doesn’t manage to get the word “Bannockburn” into his report
    “Under the gaze of royalty, the forces of the British state paraded through Stirling while just a few miles away swords clashed as the victory of a Scottish king over the English was re-enacted.”

  45. stuart says:

    I don’t think these reports of 1600 people making the thing out to be a flop are really fair. It actually smacks of sour grapes and our own (Yes) side making things out to be worse than they really were.

    Using the image in your article, I’ve calculated approximately, 2000 people are there in that particular image – which it has to be said is only one snapshot of the entire day. I took the image, divided it into 30x30px squares. There are around 60 people in the densest parts of a 30px square and plotting the area, there are approx 50 squares populated with people.

    To be fair, BBC Scotland did show a bulletin with an aerial view of the same scene and there are a lot more people out of shot to the left. This could easily take the numbers up to around 4-5k. And the actual bulletin gave plenty coverage to the Bannockburn live event.

    It should also be noted that this is a single snapshot of the entire day and does not reflect actual attendance. Crowds gathered and fluctuated over the day. There was rain, people sheltering in tents etc. in pubs. When the Red Arrows were doing their display, this was the highlight and the crowds were fairly large.

  46. Breeks says:

    Bear in mind too, the Bannockburn crowd all paid to be there, when I suspect a fair number of the AFD crowd were paid FOR being there.
    I actually feel sorry the Royal Marines on their 350th anniversary, but would place the blame for marring both events firmly at the doors of Stirling District Council. Disgraceful. I appreciate Bannockburn made a good recovery, but some 25,000 people missed out on a great spectacle.

  47. cynicalHighlander says:

    Here are the real numbers.

    http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3071707

  48. Drunken Hobo says:

    Even assuming the 35,000 figure is accurate, it’s only 1/3 of the number that attended Edinburgh’s Armed Forces Day in 2011:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/in-pictures-armed-forces-day-celebrated-across-the-uk

    It’s also lower than the attendance for Nottigham, Plymouth & Cardiff:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/stirling-to-host-armed-forces-day-2014
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nottingham-to-host-armed-forces-day-2013
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/in-pictures-armed-forces-day

    Which actually makes it the second poorest attendance for any “Armed Forces Day” in the United Kingdom; Kent in 2009 only had 30,000:
    http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/news/general/uk-celebrates-its-first-armed-forces-day

    (As an aside, the attendance at Cardiff appeared to grow by an astonishing 20,000 just one day later, as the initial report was 50,000: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-nation-celebrates-armed-forces-day–2 )

  49. joe kane says:

    Live streaming of the protest at BBC HQ Pacific Quay Glasgow has now started online here –
    http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3071707

  50. Les Wilson says:

    I watched David Cameron being interviewed, hoe was so anxious
    to get his “Better Together” pitch in.
    However, he looked flustered, even a little embarrassed.
    This event did no way live up to expectations, so he was entitled to be embarrassed.

    The whole thing has backfired on Westminster AND the shitty Stirling Council.These folks can do anything with tax payers money and should be berated for it, by the people of Stirling.

    Scots are proving that their heritage really does mean something, power to the people!

  51. joe kane says:

    Whoops. Sorry for duplicating cynicalHighlanders comment.
    Enjoy the online quality grassroots news coverage.

  52. Dcanmore says:

    Stirling has a population of 45,000, minus 10,000 for the Bannockburn Live event and you have (hilariously) the 35,00 the must have turned out for Armed Forces Day.

  53. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Hell’s teeth, there’s quadrillions of them there at Pacific Quay! The speech I saw didn’t show very many, but they just panned across the crowd and for a minute I thought it was old footage of Calton Hill – till I saw the Armadillo in the background.

  54. Jamie Arriere says:

    We left Bannockburn about 5.15pm (with the Red Arrows in mid-display) and took the A84 toward Doune/Callander to go visit a friend. We saw no pedestrians coming from AFD, the car park at the agricultural mart which they used for AFD was pretty empty, and we encountered far more traffic coming out of Blair Drummond Safari Park (quite a few folk went to neither).

    We drove home at about 11.30pm past the field where the AFD event was held, and apart from a couple of tent pavilions still standing and the road lined with cones, there was no evidence any big event had happened that day at all – no litter, no dropped union jacks, no bunting, nothing!

  55. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    They need that wee drone camera the guy had on the September march.

  56. G H Graham says:

    The BBC & the pro-union media no longer control or even write the narrative anymore. Yesterday was surely proof of that.

    There has been a massive & obvious shift of power this last 12 months or so & it continues to shift away from the Establishment & its compliant media.

    It is the people, the people of Scotland who are taking back their sovereignty & authority by rallying at town hall meetings & public assembly points all over the country in unexpectedly large numbers. Yesterday was a sell out despite the media spending months trying to rubbish it. With hindsight, no more could have probably attended anyway considering the tight space that is the field of the Bannockburn Victory Memorial & visitors centre anyway.

    The British Establishment knows this. You know it. I know it. We all know it.

    Enjoy these next 12 weeks or so as you watch the British Empire twitch …

    Scots, wha hae wi Wallace bled,
    Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
    Welcome tae yer gory bed,
    Or tae victorie.

  57. G H Graham says:

    Visit Scotland have just tweeted in the last few minutes that Bannockburn Live on Sunday (today) is ….

    A SELL OUT !

    Wham !

  58. Thomas Valentine says:

    That’s another story then if Cameron has subsidised ever person who attended Armed Forces Day by £300 odd. It’s like demos in Iran and North Korea.

  59. Clootie says:

    If you had a house in Stirling, and it follows that it has windows, therefore you must have looked out at some point – you didn’t pay any money for a ticket to the bannockburn event so you must have been at the AFD event.

    …and they accuse dictators of propaganda!
    50,000 can vanish in London and 35,000 can appear in Stirling – it depends on what instructions the MSM receive.

  60. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    There is such disparity between the press story of attendance and the actual numbers who attended AFD that this should be relentlessly exposed
    It is another lie and every exposed lies destroys Better Together’s case. This is easier to establish than most.

    And I like the idea of asking the folk of Stirling how they enjoyed having their funding used to hugely subsidise an event that very few wanted

  61. Andy-B says:

    This what the London owned Sunday Mail newspaper said about the Bannockburn Live event in their opinion column.

    A lot of sabre rattling , a bit of meaningless skirmishing and some middle aged men running about shouting without any purpose.

    But why bother with Bannockburn Live, when we’ve had two years of the referendum campaign. The taxpayer would say you must be having a laugh when they’ve been asked to shell out the best part of a million pounds, to recreate a battle that happened 700 years ago, which no one knows where it took place, never mind why.

    This is what the supposedly Scottish Sunday mail newspaper thinks of Scottish history.

  62. Les Wilson says:

    All the people at PQ must be getting right up the nose of the BBC. They are singing, pipes are playing, everyone enjoying it. It does have purpose, i hope there will be ever growing crowds from now to September.

    They will not care too much, but observers and reporters from other countries must be noticing. The BBC are in the spotlight, possibly more than ever before. As we are on the doorstep of BBC Scotland, we can make this bigger and bigger.

  63. Andy-B says:

    O/T

    A bit of positive news now, more than 40 branch officers from Unison have backed a YES vote. Unison Scotland deputy convener Stephen Smellie said ” The kind of Labour party we need, is more likely to develop in an independent Scotland, than in the current UK.”

  64. heedtracker says:

    Prof John Robertson speaking outside BBC Pacific Quay right now and I really really hope all the BBC liggers that went after him are listening, deep inside their big glass box o grot.

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/02/02/bbc-blasted-in-uws-response/

  65. Jim Thomson says:

    @joe kane 2:10pm

    Just re-posting your link to the BBC bias livestream:

    http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3071707

    Prof Robertson on now – someone really needs to gaffer tape the cameraman to the ground though!

  66. Lockie says:

    The reporter on SKY said, it was here at Bannockburn Robert the Bruce won the battle in 1314 that cemented “Britain’s independence” eh was it ?

  67. Jim Thomson says:

    @heedtracker 2:56pm

    it would be interesting to see the google analytics for the livestream to see who were all watching it. That should show up the BBC I would think.

  68. heedtracker says:

    Prof Robertson says Steve Bell of progressive/liberal Guardian replied to his complaint with “fuck off and stick your nationalism up your arse” What was the complaint about

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jan/30/scottish-independence-referendum-question-cartoon

  69. joe kane says:

    Thanks Jim Thomson.
    Yes that was an excellent speech by Prof Robertson about his research on BBC news coverage of the referendum. I hope he puts it online.

  70. TYRAN says:

    Trends Map over Scotland right now

    aberdeen
    bannockburn
    bannockburnlive
    bbcbias
    bbcbias
    bbcbias
    edfilmfest
    edinburgh
    glasgow
    glastonbury
    glastonbury
    indyref
    indyref
    indyref
    indyref
    paddypower
    scotland
    scottish
    stirling
    voteyes
    voteyes
    voteyes

    Nappies for BT

  71. heedtracker says:

    @ Jim Thomson, don’t know about google analytics but I’m watching it in the bath here in suburban Aberdeen:D

    Good picture and sound!

  72. Jim Thomson says:

    @heedtracker 3:28 pm

    jeez – there’s an image I’m going to have trouble purging from my feeble brain :-P

    Rest easy though, GA doesn’t quite get down to bath level (thank goodness) but it should identify ISPs and the BBC are one of them as far as the IP address allocations are concerned.

  73. TD says:

    So, to sum up, we have the British State supported by the State Broadcaster and other media outlets glorifying past military endeavours of the British State but denigrating the celebration of an event which preceded the creation of said state by some 400 years. The state attempts to undermine the clebration of the 700 year old event by deliberately scheduling its celebration for the same weekend in more or less the same place. One event (Bannockburn) is rather well attended, but the state sponsored event (Armed Forces Day) appears to be rather poorly attended. (And in the weeks preceding the events, we are repeatedly told that the Bannockburn event would be a flop with poor ticket sales). Then, the next day, the media turn the facts on their head and report that the state event was well attended and that the Bannockburn event was badly attended.

    Truth is the fist casualty of war, they say. How apt. It pains me to say it, but we now live in a country where total cynicism is the order of the day, the end justifies the means and integrity has no place amongst those seeking to preserve the union. Until recently, if asked to guess which country might have been behaving this way I would have guessed maybe Putin’s Russia, China, or perhaps some dodgy third world dictatorship. I naively believed that such a thing could never happen in my country.

    I don’t want to live in a country where government, media and establishment operate like that. Nor, I am sure, do a majority of the people of Scotland. Let’s hope they realise what is happening before it is too late.

  74. heedtracker says:

    @ Jim Thomson, just me, my battleships, rubber ducks and ipad. It’s pretty shocking to think that we’re meant to be in that neutral unbiased reportage run to the referendum period. What a BBC in Scotland farce that’s turned out to be. BBC is even more anti independence biased if anything and especially after the Bannockburn news blackout yesterday. That was just grotesque and it’s going to get a whole worse. Then they’ll scarper.

  75. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Many more people turned out to line the streets of Stirling for the Braveheart premiere in 1995 than turned out yesterday for AFD:

    http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist/RTV/1995/09/03/605230127/

  76. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Were there more people at Pacific Quay today than at AFD in Stirling yesterday?

  77. JWil says:

    Were there any police figures for the crowd numbers? They usually like to have stats to demonstrate how efficient they are at crowd control.

  78. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    heedtracker

    The BBC will not scarper, they will be evicted.

  79. pete the camera says:

    @JWil
    Were there any police figures for the crowd numbers? They usually like to have stats to demonstrate how efficient they are at crowd control.

    There was no need for Police control at PQ today only peaceful YES supporters
    If you use the BBC way to calculate numbers it must have been at least 40,000 at PQ

  80. Thepnr says:

    Just saw Cactus and X Sticks at Pacific Quay haha

  81. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just watching live stream from Pacific Quay and they are trying to get into Pacific Quay to get a word from BBC unfortunately they cannae get in! :P

    Just seen X-Sticks and the crew with the very well signed Wings banner. :P

  82. heedtracker says:

    @ Bugger (the Panda), with their £500 million glas box garbage PFI bill too. The live broadcaster camera work’s coming from a future Scottish Broadcasting Corp camera girl down there, scoping rather large WoS banner! Go Kaitlin! is it?

  83. heedtracker says:

    Jackie Bird your botoxed goose is cooked.

  84. Looked like the crowds were nearly one deep in places…

    Wonder what the figures are for a normal Saturday in Stirling when nothing is on. Very similar I imagine.

    Oh, and it wasn’t the Council, just one Councillor, the Provost that made the arrangement, then told his pals in the Tory/Labour admin later, who passed it. Independent audit on decision making process going on now. Doubt if it will report any time soon.

    Mind ye, he did get his photie plastered all over the media with Royals and their ilk. Worth £500,000 of council taxpayers money any day.

  85. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    heedtracker

    They are only squatting in that glass Lubyanka.

    We will not want it because it is probably on some sell and rent back contract to an offshore company owned by BBC World?

  86. heedtracker says:

    Bye Kaitlin! Amazing job there. See you next time!

  87. Thepnr says:

    Well done Caitlin and Derek from Independence Live. Some real journalism, the BBC should be embarrassed.

  88. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thepnr says:

    Well done Caitlin and Derek from Independence Live. Some real journalism, the BBC should be embarrassed.

    Well they would be embarrassed Thepnr but just as Labour in Scotland do NOT know how to apologise the UKIP Channel, sorry BBC do NOT know how to feel embarrassed! :P

  89. Fergus Green says:

    Sunday Post article about the NHS in Scotland:

    http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/uk/top-health-academic-england-has-abolished-its-national-health-service-1.446211

    Makes me wonder if the Sunday Post has seen soaring sales over at the Sunday Herald and is looking for something similar.

    Remember the bottom line though – Never trust a DC Thomson publication!

  90. HenBroon says:

    Just in from the BBC protest at PQ. I think there was at least 3,000 people there I am soon going to post some photos on Facebook.

    It is blindingly obvious that these events need a battle bus. As the people who were speaking and playing and singing at the PQ event were not visible to the crowd as they were at ground level with a small PA unit.

    We need an open topped bus, or a truck even to put on these protests. We should be doing one every week now in the run in to the indyref.

    Surely to God there is someone in all of the Yes organisations or Yes itself that can see this. The BBC are our most dangerous enemy, and it is they who will scupper the referendum if it is scuppered. I am certain a battle bus could be crowd funded. Come on folks time is getting very short, we need to get this on.

  91. Andy-B says:

    Thanks for posting the Pacific Quay independence live stream, it was brilliant to watch.

  92. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    lol
    O/T
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/nationalcollective/photos/a.233148850093742.56160.199573770117917/661302557278367/?type=1&theater

  93. Brian Powell says:

    The photographs used by Craig Murray were taken from Stirling Castle, as identified by the guy who took them.

  94. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’m guessing here S.C. but to get those photos they must have been taken from INSIDE the palace of Horrors by one of the many under cover YES agents. :P

  95. scottish_skier says:

    BBC reporting ‘hundreds’ outside pacific quay.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28079812

  96. Taranaich says:

    Back on the 9th of September last year, BBC news had a 2-minute piece on the Battle of Flodden, Scotland’s greatest and most ruinous defeat. For the BBC to studiously avoid any mention of Scotland’s greatest victory when they had reporters, cameras and equipment right in the area – indeed, in front of the very statue of Robert the Bruce erected to commemorate the 650th anniversary of the battle – is the clumsiest and most brazen bias I’ve seen from the BBC in quite some time.

    500th anniversary of Scotland’s greatest defeat by the English: worthy of a 2 minute news item. 700th anniversary of Scotland’s greatest victory over the English: no mention whatsoever.

    Bias? What bias?

  97. Lesley-Anne says:

    I don’t quite know how to tell you all this but none of you can count! I have it from an official source that there was a wee insignificant protest somewhere in Glasgow today that attracted only a few individuals. :P

    http://tinyurl.com/o6xvvh5

    Yesterday they had thousands at Stirling’s AFD and today they have hundreds at the anti bias protest. Now call me cynical if you like…You’re cynical! but somehow I think the *ahem* official head counter from the BBC at today’s event cannae count! :P

  98. Krackerman says:

    Just back from Bannockburn myself – totally packed out. Huge queues to get into the battle re-enactment. Great weather, great music, great food and drink and loads of YES stickers all around…

    The only NO I saw was the two poor young lads handing out the “proud to be Scottish and delighted to be united” Blurggh stickers at the car-park entrance…

    No takers I saw…

  99. Jammach says:

    If missed the live stream of the BBC Bias protest, hope you like these :-)

    https://flickr.com/photos/7709542@N03/sets/72157645015383469

  100. Jim Marshall says:

    O/T Just home from demo at PQ. A good turnout, I estimated around 2,000. Spoke to quite a few Wingers including a number of lurkers ( or lurchers as Ronnie Anderson calls them ). Main speaker Prof John Robertson did sterling work despite a poor public address system and detailed the biased BBC methods of incessant propaganda.

    Whether this will make a difference to the debate remains to be seen but the BBC know that their every move is being scrutinised.

    Full marks to Ronnie and Gerry and the other Wingers who manned the Wings table.

  101. Jim Thomson says:

    @Lesley-Anne ahh, so young and yet sooo cynical. Y’see m’dear what was ACTUALLY happening was a wee protest of a few hundred protesters was stopping 1500+ flag clad BBC employees from accessing the building.

    Easy to miscount.

    You’ll learn ;-)

  102. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    craig murray has some very accurate photos of the AFD crowd
    1600 looks like the upper limit
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/what-2000-people-look-like/#comments

  103. Jim Thomson says:

    @HenBroon 4:25

    do you mean like these:
    http://www.usedcoachsales.co.uk/coach.ihtml?coach=1257
    or
    http://www.usedcoachsales.co.uk/coach.ihtml?coach=1224
    or
    http://www.usedcoachsales.co.uk/coach.ihtml?coach=1102
    or
    http://www.usedcoachsales.co.uk/coach.ihtml?coach=1046

    a few more on the website.

    Running costs and garaging might be an issue, as would fitting one out with a suitable generator and sound system.

  104. Harry McAye says:

    I was at the PQ and in all honesty, while it was a good turnout, I reckoned it was about 800. Never 3000 I’m afraid.

  105. Lesley-Anne says:

    Jim Thomson says:

    @Lesley-Anne ahh, so young and yet sooo cynical. Y’see m’dear what was ACTUALLY happening was a wee protest of a few hundred protesters was stopping 1500+ flag clad BBC employees from accessing the building.

    Easy to miscount.

    You’ll learn ;-)

    We’ll have LESS of the so young if you don’t mind! :P

    Oh that was what was wrong with the numbers I’ve heard, they were the numbers of the BBC employees with the flags. Silly me I really really should have known shouldn’t I? Still there’s always next time. ;)

  106. galamcennalath says:

    OT On Bella there is a shocking article ….

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/29/graduation-address-by-dr-bettina-bildhauer/

    We are all being associated with Nazis again!

    An academic claims … “nationalism will always create outsiders and develop into xenophobia” … incomprehensible ignorance from someone who claims to be educated!

  107. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    @jammach

    excellent photos tx

  108. Lesley-Anne says:

    That’s disgusting galamcennalath I feel a letter of protest might be in order, not that the Uni would do anything about it like :(

  109. M4rkyboy says:

    This is Ot but does anyone know whether a video recording is available of the Radical indy meeting down in London the other night(26th?) in committee room 14 organised by redpepper mag?

  110. jacksloan2013 says:

    Great turnout at the BBC today. See they have reported it as “hundreds” and “several hundred” but it was into a couple of thousand where I was standing. Well done to the organisers and if nothing changes can we do it again, and again each month up to September?

  111. Andy-B says:

    Sorry if this has already been covered, the Courier newspaper says 35.000 people attended AFD in Stirling yet over on Craig Murray’s blog he proves it was around the 2000 mark, these lies make Danny Alexander’s start up costs falsified by x 12 look positively logical.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/35-000-brave-rain-to-salute-forces-1.445272

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

  112. Capella says:

    The estimates on the livestream were that there were 2000 – 2500 there (ie more than at AFD) and about 550 watching the livestream, some from abroad.
    The point of the tally at AFD is that the councillors who gave evidence to the Economy, Energy and Tourism committee of the Scottish Parliament used an expected turnout of 50000 as the justification for scheduling this event on that weekend and the cost of £550,000. It was billed as a great commercial opportunity for Stirling businesses. The committee challenged them on that suggesting that two weekends might have been better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDcCWIsNxaY at 2:31:25
    The councillors will be recalled to the committee at some point for the post mortem.

  113. Les Wilson says:

    Jammach says:

    The best of these should be put on facebook with the BBC one beside them, then the truth will out!

  114. How many Africans do the BBC think the banks they work for needlessly slaughtered today, whilst gleefully ignoring their own much larger debts and bonuses; 100? 600? Or a multiple of those? Cannot wait for that report.

  115. John Sm. says:

    I watched the livestream from PQ, it was fantastic, some of the best ‘telly’ I’ve seen in ages.

    Well done to everyone involved.

  116. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry for going O/T here but I was wondering if Stu knew anything about this. These are a few tweets I’ve just read over on Twitter from Max Keiser.

    Unfortunately, due to media censorship here in the UK, we can’t talk about Scottish independence on TV until after the September vote.

    @maxkeiser You can Max. Only BBC has charter agreement and guidelines with @ElectoralCommUK re reporting on #indyref. They ignore anyway.

    @AKMacG @ElectoralCommUK No we can’t. Regulators have insisted that we not mention Scotland’s independence vote on TV.

  117. Bob Sinclair says:

    I’m just back from Pacific Quay. Really great day out. I’d have put the crowd at well over 1000, really great to catch up with some well known faces and meet some new ones.

    It was really good to meet Mark Coburn #indycyclist. Mark has a new project kicking off soon, 500 miles round Scotland in support of local Yes Campaigners. He was telling me that, having read the Maryhill Foodbank article, any surplus raised will be donated to Maryhill Foodbank. I’m sure Mark will be along soon to tell us more. A really lovely guy, and a cause i’m sure we can all get behind.

    Just put a link to my photos on O/T but here they are again:
    http://www.dropbox.com/sh/c3hsrw5fdr797a9/AAB8izTsC6CF21opTuuLOepka

  118. The Man in the Jar says:

    I was at PQ my estimate would be about 1,000 probably more.

    A good natured crowd. there were two police vans in attendance at the start but they buggered off leaving two cars and a couple of PCs. One of the PCs even posed with the pandas. aided and abetted by a sinister character with a “Wings” banner. Hi Ronnie! :-)

    Hi to all the lurkers that came to say hello and to the Wings regulars that I met.

  119. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    The BBC had it’s balls cut off way back at the Hutton Inquiry. Since then it’s been slavishly establishment doing precisely what it’s political masters want. Any attempts to deviate from the establishment line are met with not very subtle hints about the license fee settlement conveyed to the BBC Board and other jobsworths/political placemen in it’s employ. Now Westminster have an even bigger stick to threaten them with in the shape of exactly what went on when Jimmy Saville and more than a few others were in the BBC’s employ.

    Make no mistake, there should have been a full public inquiry into that grotesque scandal. The only reason the BBC have escaped that full public inquiry and even greater scrutiny thus far is that the BBC have pleased the Westminster establishment in their willingness to bend the truth and even lie to keep their political masters happy.

  120. Derick Tulloch says:

    My guess for numbers at BBC Pravda today would be about 1500.
    Note to self do not take psychotic black collie duto crowded events.
    Greatly amused by the Wings banner at the. Gates of Mount Doom

    Tomorrow’s headlines ‘ordinary mum distraught as planned visit to Glasgow ,Science Centre ruined by Nazi yes supporters taking all spaces in car park. You heard it here first

  121. O/T: (ish) I’ve put the 3 parts of Chas Macdonald’s recording of The Bruce 700 last Thursday night in Stirling on the blog.

    The fantastic final anthem O Thèid Mi Fhèin le Mo Dheòin – I will Go by My Will should be the Yes Scotland anthem.

    http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-bruce-700.html

  122. Derick Tulloch says:

    Dug
    I hate this old phone

  123. galamcennalath says:

    Derick Tulloch says:
    My guess for numbers at BBC Pravda today would be about 1500

    So, almost as many turn up at an BBC-bias demonstration as go to the Force’s day in Stirling. :)

  124. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

    Les Wilson – what an excellent idea. I’m just in the door having a large celebratory Bombay Sapphire & tonic. Will get Pixelmator out in a mo ;-)

  125. Jim Marshall says:

    Gavin Barrie

    Great work with the photies Gavin. You have my nomination for official WOS photographer.

  126. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Who was the lassie that did Freedom Come All Ye?

    Brave, she was.

  127. William Mclean says:

    A bit off topic, but wasn’t it interesting how the BBC and most of the papers were quite underwhelming about Scotland’s rugby victory in Argentina, but seemed almost gleeful to report the loss in South Africa.

    I suppose I am a bit paranoiac.

    Mind you being paranoiac doesn’t mean people aren’t out to get you

  128. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

    @Les Wilson – you mean something like this? Oh I hope this works. I just tweeted it case it doesn’t.

    pic.twitter.com/pOs3NPO2ZO

  129. Cindie says:

    Great pics of the BBC event, thanks for sharing. It’s funny there are pics of Bannockburn all over my FB page from folks I know who went, but nobody seems to have gone to AFD?

    O/T But this is in the Scotsman today: https://archive.today/Stvyo
    Following the ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ documentary (which was excellent) the follow up looks like it is aimed at directly attacking The FM

    ‘A HARD-hitting new documentary investigating Donald Trump’s contentious golf resort in Aberdeenshire is set to put the First Minister in an uncomfortable spotlight when it is released in cinemas two weeks before the independence referendum.’

  130. Fiona says:

    Couple of pics from Pacific Quay, if anyone is interested

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/35171124@N07/sets/72157645471355693/

  131. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

    @Jim Marshall – thank you, that was just with my iPhone. You should see what I can do with a proper camera *grin*. I think I might have a great summer taking pics up to the referendum …

  132. Lesley-Anne says:

    Great to see Tian Tian and Yang Guang there from Edinburgh zoo. Fantastic proof that our independence fight is ALL encompassing. :P

  133. Dorothy Devine says:

    great day – not good at estimating numbers but maybe 1,000 plus.

    Met some lovely folk and some beautiful quadrupeds.

    Ronnie , you were looking grand!

  134. heedtracker says:

    @ Cindie, You’ve been Trumped is a documentary funded by the BBC because its attacking Scottish independence. Trump at Balmedie is nothing compared to the current massive loss of Aberdeen’s green belt countryside, vast noddy box housing estates, new WPR by-pass etc, so how come there’s no BBC attack doc on the tiny number of very rich developers like Stewart Milne, now making a fortune ruining our country side or even Aberdeen City Council for giving anyone that wants to build anything the go ahead?

    Maybe its because Trump and AlicSamin are BBC funding/box office draws.

  135. HenBroon says:

    jim Thomson. good find, do you see they will hire an open topper for £2000 a month? They can also arrange for having it wrapped in your graphics of choice.

    http://www.usedcoachsales.co.uk/coach.ihtml?coach=1224

    Two months to go £4000

    Wrapping another £2000. (guess)

    I read of a haulage contractor who has his fleet liveried for yes.

    Surely we could find a friendly contractor who would keep this for us for two months.

    18th July to 18th September, every week out side PQ giving it laldy.

    This needs doing.

    Surely we can crowd fund that after what we have crowd funded now?

    To those suggesting the crowd was 800+ your agenda is clear. http://www.specsavers.co.uk/

    I stood on the raised area in front of PQ and counted one section via a framing lens. The section was 100. I then estimated the number of sections, there were at least 30 such section of the crowd. There was movement and areas not counted as they were to sparse. 3000 is a very conservative estimate. That was around 1500 hrs. And there were people still arriving.

  136. Peter says:

    You’ve been trumped just tells the same lies about the FM overturning Aberdeenshire council’s decision to block the Trump development.

    Which is quite odd as Aberdeenshire council voted in favour of the development. A fact that is beyond any dispute yet is ignored on a daily basis by britnazis attacking the FM and the Yes campaign.

  137. scottish_skier says:

    ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ documentary

    Yes, I can see the entire future of a country being decided by a documentary about a man everybody thinks is a tit (Trump) concerning disputes over planning for a golf course.

    Folk will be like ‘Well, what do you think? X men 10 or that Trump documentary? X-men it is then…’

    It’s like India’s independence. They almost gave that up and re-joined the British empire when it was discovered that a member of Ghandi’s group had approved some guy building a well, then fallen out with him over a windmill nearby as it blocked the view from said well.

    Looking into it, such planning controversies have decided the outcome of 97% of independence movements historically.

  138. Cindie says:

    The first film struggled to get backers initially, but the sequel looks like it will be very well funded and promoted. I know there has been some talk about the MSM trying to smear the FM in the weeks leading up to the vote, I wonder if this is the story that’s been hinted at?

  139. Fiona says:

    @Jammach: great pics! Well done you for it is not easy in a crowd :)

  140. Jim Thomson says:

    On the topic of “You’ve Been Trumped” I’m pretty certain it’s simply another smoke & mirrors affair trying to divert FM energy and resources from the main event.

    There will be lots of such distracting side-shows before the vote. Best to ignore and move on with the real work of getting the Yes message across. Even if it is defamatory, wait until after the vote then take ‘em to the cleaners.

  141. ticktock says:

    Lesley Anne @ 5.31

    Keiser wouldn’t normally hold back from saying almost anything, never mind mentioning the Scottish Independence referendum. I for one don’t understand what those tweets are really about.

    He’s used his show before to call for public execution of banksters. (rightfully, in my view).

  142. Kev says:

    Well it seems the BBC are at it again – reporting that the “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters” at Pacific Quay today. I was there, staff inside the building were peering down at us from the top floor – they could have easily clocked up the numbers themselves and rubbished this absurd figure.

    Comparing the crowd today with the numbers at the battle reenactment at Bannockburn yesterday, which held a capacity of 3,000 according to the steward I spoke to, there were around half as many at the protest today at its peak I would say.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28079812

  143. Wullie B says:

    A wee message from my pal…..
    Chani-mal Bennie

    I played at Arm Forces day because i am in the Argyle Sutherland Highlanders pipe band and we were Leading the Argyles veterans .90% of the band are yes voters. 80% of the veterans i was talking to are yes voters. The 20% no voters were the officers David Cameron and Ed Miliband were there.When their names were announced The crowed went silent then grumbled. I was talking to most of the crowd that was there they were not fooled by David Cameron having Arm Forces day on the same day as Robert the Bruce’s 1314 remembrance day , They were their because they had to be. The grass roots yes campaign is winning and the more David Cameron tries to stamp it out the more people are becoming aware of his tactics. Saor Alba

    this message was doing the rounds on facebook yesterday

  144. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’ve heard him going on about bankers ticktock, partularly American ones, but he does seem to have something like a bee in his bonnet about being, effectively banned, from discussing Scottish referendum by the T.V. regulators, think that’s OFCOM isn’t it? ;)

    I’m thinking it’s time for Stu be *ahem* invited onto the Keiser Report or for Stu do a wee *cough* interview with Max regarding what overseas television channels think about the Scottish independence and its coverage by the British media. :P

  145. Indigo says:

    Wow thanks for sharing those photos, we were right at the front at the main door so it was difficult to see how big the crowd became, it’s huge!!! What a wonderful day it was

  146. Les Wilson says:

    Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

    Hi Gavin,
    the second photo is the better one for showing the extent of the crowd. However, what I was meaning was to show the crowd WE know was there, alongside the one the BBC show was there with their selected angle shot.

    Then a direct comparison can be made, along with a comment asking does this look like a few hundred to You? or can the BBC just want to count?

  147. Les Wilson says:

    Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

    should read near the end “or does the BBC just not want to count?”

  148. john king says:

    TD @ 3.38PM

    Hear hear TD
    I agree with every word!

  149. ticktock says:

    Lesley, that’s a brilliant idea! I’ve no idea whether or not Stu or Max Keiser would be interested or available at the same time but wow that would be one for the books.

    Keiser and Stacy Herbert have talked about Scottish independence before on their show, so I still don’t get why he’d submit to some bs from Ofcom or whatever. It is RT after all, not some UK MSM outfit.

    The Rev and Keiser discussing Scottish Independence (amongst other things) would really be something.

  150. Lesley-Anne says:

    Aye I remember them talking about our independence and how they were both *ahem* descended from good old Scottish stock. :)

    I have a funny feeling that this ban that Max is talking about now may be the result of that show or something similar. Westminster are doing their utmost to prevent Scottish independence being discussed any where, any time, by any one, do you know why Mr. A.A. Darling? :P

    The best bit though is that the harder they try, and utterly fail, to block any discussion about independence we still hold the meetings, pass on the word and turn NOES and D.K.’s to YES. :)

    WE are winning, we know it, they know it and there’s not a damned thing they can do about and they know it. ;)

  151. MJS Dundee says:

    BBC Rep Scot evening news just gave all of 20 seconds to PQ protest, informing us that “hundreds of people” turned up.

  152. heedtracker says:

    @ Cindie, that Scotsman report says BBC funding Youve been Trumped 2, but the doc maker is no different from say George Galloway, just one more huckster trying to use Scotland’s move to democracy to make a fast buck.

    The BBC will give it the full bettertogetherBBC monty for weeks to try and suck away some attention, undermine and attack Holyrood as usual, look silly little Scotland, you cant even protect the Scottish environment from an evil American baddie, so how can you too small, poor and stupid people vote yes and we hate AlicSamin don’t we…

  153. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’ll betv the whole 20 seconds worth of the report was done through extremely tight gritted teeth! :P

  154. Harry McAye says:

    Hen Broon – no agenda honestly, I called it as I saw it. I arrived about 1.45, stayed till about 3.00. The main throng at the front was well packed but that was where the vast bulk were, it was quite roomy back from that. If 1700, as I believe, pledged to be there then 3000 is a touch fanciful. I heard a group of women wondering where everybody was although it did fill up a bit after that. I’ve looked at the pics and I see nothing there to change my mind, just being honest. 800, maybe 900 is still a very decent turn out.

  155. Capella says:

    The Trump issue is more complicated than it appears from comments above. I saw the original film and recommend it as very fair. What has happened is that the BBC are probably now exploiting it to attack the FM. They provide a handy timeline which leaves out some crucial items.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7443884.stm
    The Trump development was first promoted when Jack McConnell was FM, as it points out. The planning committee of Aberdeenshire Council rejected the development under the chairmanship of Martin Ford. The full Council then declared that the decision was void because the Trump organisation had not received the letter informing them of the decision. Aberdeenhshire Council, then Liberal dominated, referred it to the SG inquiry, meanwhile smearing the new FM, Alex Salmond (who should have stayed well clear). The also sacked Martin Ford as Chair of the planning committee. He then resigned as a Liberal and became a Green.
    See Tripping up Trump for more detail if interested.
    http://www.trippinguptrump.co.uk/

  156. GrahamB says:

    What a couple of great days in inspiring company at Bannockburn yesterday and at PQ this afternoon. Today’s demo was a great collection of all ages, creeds and political persuasions (except unionists), very well behaved and extremely well-behaved although there has been plenty of reason for anger. When we arrived at 2 there were a couple of police in high-vis who sauntered off after about 20 minutes, then later two others in ordinary gear turned up and the wee female polis had some banter with Ronnie at the Wings banner. Great to see the two pandas holding the banner but I could see no sign of even one Tory MP anywhere!
    However, it seemed to be as water of a duck’s back to the UKBC, the pressure needs to be maintained (fortnighly protests?) and STV needs to be shamed as well. Surely they are similarly guilty of not reporting the BBC’s woes or as John Robertson said today they all close ranks.

  157. a supporter says:

    stuart at 1:58 pm

    Are you really a YES supporter!?

    Go here http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/what-2000-people-look-like/#comment-463812 for a definitive version of AFD attendance. You will find that The RED ARROW flypast had the lowest number of viewers of the day. Everyone had gone home.

    And this is what an actual 35,000 crowd looks like. pic.twitter.com/7MS7k0MTmI

  158. Leo Foyle says:

    Yeah, I reckon there were 1000 at PQ today. I was there – the ugly guy in the green t-shirt underneath the ‘yes Arran Island’ banner. But – and the reason I’m posting – did anyone notice the photos of the athletes that were pasted up in the windows of the ground floor of PQ? Even though they could find a photo of an Australian athlete from the Delhi games (proving they had access to Commonwealth Games pix), they still had no choice but to show Victoria Pendleton and Mohammed Farah in full (London 2012) butcher’s apron livery…

  159. Les Wilson says:

    For those who may doubt numbers at PQ, NNS have a good wee video that pans the crowd, 2000 at least they say.

  160. bookie from hell says:

    bannockburn Sunday summary

    1.sold out
    2.more about culture,history,both sides of battle
    3.saw weaponry,food,clothing at that time period close up
    4.local produce food of Scotland was excellent,had to queue,but worth it
    5.many info tents,books,clans,music

    only criticism,large queues for battle reenactment,maybe make more stands around battle,5,000,instead of 3,000

    many didn’t know you could go in earlier and see the camps,both sides,weaponry,life style of that time.

    8/10

  161. Gordon E says:

    Just back from the Pacific Quay demo.
    I counted about 1900 max, a great turnout and a good time had by all.
    Great to hear Prof Robertson, he mentioned that the Herald wouldn’t print all of his last report, I wonder if it is available on-line anywhere?

  162. Kerryfisted says:

    Attended the PQ with retired policeman who spent thirty years on the Force. His estimate of the crowd was three thousand possibly more.

  163. Michael McCabe says:

    Watched the Live Stream from Pacific Quay. Made me proud to be Scottish. Vote Yes

  164. heedtracker says:

    @ Capella, http://www.trippinguptrump.co.uk/meet-the-residents/ this is the people that Trump tried to buy out but Baxter’s got no interest in who knows how many people that lost their homes for Aberdeen’s new by-pass, although they did get a full market rate.

    Baxter’s just one more grubby ukok shyster but let him show it with his own description of compulsory purchase orders, none of which were ever used on Mennie residents.

    “MEET THE RESIDENTS
    Donald Trump has asked the council to use their power to forcibly clear people from their homes, all in the name of a private golf course. Below are just a few of the locals that are threatened.”

  165. Molly says:

    Capella, Janice Forsyth interviewed the film maker of ‘ you’ve been trumped’ just this week. I listened to it on I player. He does explain some of the problems the locals have had re water etc, then basically , it’s Alex Salmonds fault as it’s his constituency.

    Personally I’m not sure what the difference is between Donald Trump and the faceless people behind PFI contracts,the scourge of our Country but anyway, I notice a final comment he makes in a quickly googled article by Mr Baxter is, yup you’ve guessed it , the Referendum.

  166. Kenny says:

    The First Minister should have been leading the charge AGAINST Trump and his awful, awful “development.” His lies from the outset were obvious and destroying an SSSI to build that damned golf course should have been an open and shut case for any sensible government. Let’s not make the mistake of thinking that supportinv independence means letting Salmond away with some of his worse behaviour. It only makes us look like the militia of Samondistas we’re often portrayed as. Lesser of several evils he may be, but Salmond should still be absolutely open to scrutiny on decisions like the Balmedie one.

  167. JR says:

    You asked where in Stirling on twitter 56.121863, -3.955341 google maps coords :)
    I have a pic badly outlined in pain but no idea how to post it here :)

  168. heedtracker says:

    @ Kenny, your deeply wrong about the SSSI that Trump is supposed to have destroyed. For one thing his course goes into the SSSI by a few metres and same SSSI has Newburgh golf club built completely on it to the north, aswell as sown of Newburgh itself. If you want to swallow Baxter/BBC lies hook line and sinker fine but look at a map of the SSSI and Trump golf first.

  169. Zen Broon says:

    According to STV “The Ministry of Defence put the attendance at between 35,000 and *50,000* people.” But to be fair if there is a fly-past and you look up, the Brit Nats could say you have ‘attended’…

  170. bookie from hell says:

    aljazeera report

    never thought I’d say,puts bbc to shame

    thx for the link Nana Smith

  171. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I’m always amused by people that seem to happily allow nuclear power plants and so on exist but get all worked up about a golf course which must be about the most eco friendly development I can think of.
    Of course if alicsammin can somehow be attacked on it anything goes

  172. Capella says:

    @ Molly, Heedtracker
    Point taken about Baxter’s comments on the FM and referendum (which I haven’t heard but accept what you say). I do think he is also being used by the Unionist parties and their media allies to smear Alex Salmond. I do think he should have stayed well clear of this mess but, as it is his constituency, perhaps that was impossible. It is a sad tale and I believe the Liberal Democrat administration were responsible.

  173. Ken500 says:

    The Trump Development had major support in the area. It was a handful of Greens and who caused all the problems. They voted against the Aberdeen by-pass road and expanding the Airport etc for ten years. Labour/Unionist in the City voted against a By-Pass road for thirty years. They refused a £80million gift from Ian Wood to predestrianise the City centre. An alternative scheme will be thirty times more expensive (thirty years of lease back) and road closure will cause further traffic chaos. Last time the Labour/Unionists nearly bankrupted the City. Deja Vu

    Aberdeen/shire is a growth area, because of increased (Oil) jobs, one of the few in Scotland. The congested roads causes misery for residents for years. The Editor of the local journal is married to a Trump employee. i.e. The campaign against the FM.

  174. Alibi says:

    I see the BBC is claiming that there were only 350 protesters outside Pacific Quay today. funny how they get that figure, about a seventh of what people are reporting, whereas they have multiplied the numbers at Armed Forces Day by a factor of somewhere around ten.

    the BBC is not an impartial broadcaster – they are part of the problem. Disgraceful that we are expected to pay for their misinformation.

  175. Patrician says:

    Way o/t time, very sorry but something else was happening today. See the details at http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#13

    If anyone wants any of the pictures removed or faces obscured please let me know. I will also date order the pictures and caption them later.

  176. Patrician says:

    Whoops, try this http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#0 to start in the correct album.

  177. Croompenstein says:

    I think they can try and smear Alex Salmond all they like but one thing is for sure, Alex will act and make decisions that he feels will benefit the people of Scotland.

    Everyone can mistakes or errors of judgement but one thing is sure there will be no brown envelopes getting slid under the FM’s desk unlike that palace of corruption next to the Thames.

  178. Ken500 says:

    Trump did not destroy an SSI. The SSI was for rare plants. Adder’s Tongue? No one can find it.
    The only reference to ‘shifting sands’ was a 1984 unsigned Aberdeenshire letter. The anti Trump campaigners used insider council information (illegally) to campaign against the Golf Development. One was trying to get an SSI placed on the sands by writing to the British Geographical Society in London. It takes two geologists and there was not time.

    The local Fornartine Committee approved the Development, the chairman of the infrastructure committee voted against. The full council voted in favour. There was such an outcry, the Scottish Gov recalled the application The Inquiry cost £2Million.

  179. Ken500 says:

    The local Formartine Committee. The estate was a private shooting estate

    The decision made by Alex and the Scottish Gov was supported in the area. It’s his constituency.

    Golfing Holidays have increased 40% in Scotland. There is a shortage of hotels in the NE. Hotel occupancy in the NE is high.

  180. Cindie says:

    All I knew about the situation was from the You’ve Been Trumped Film. It’s good to have other points of view from people here. I would like some more information about it, because if it is going to spun against Alex Salmond it would be good to have some rebuttal arguments.

    I have a lot of respect for Alex Salmond and this won’t change my vote, but I would like some ammunition should the discussion arise. There are so many useful links that I have been able to share on other subjects, but there seems to be a lot of misinformation about this.

  181. Ken500 says:

    You’ve Been Trumped’ film is one of the most biased films ever made.

    The Trump Development was supported 9 to 1. The MSM coverage (Scotsman led) was the most biased ever made. There was an outcry, including in the local Press when the Development was voted against. The ‘Neeps’ reference ie the Councillors who voted against. There was an absolute outcry. Some of the locals who supported the Trump Development were interviewed by the BBC, an hour’s coverage. This was never used.

  182. Grouse Beater says:

    Union Jack McConnell, as First Minister, brought Trump to Scotland, inviting him to buy a chunk of it for another boring golf course we do not need. But he did so because Aberdeenshire was screaming out for jobs.

    When Salmon got elected, in a coalition, he found himself between a rock and a hard place.

    He did what all politicians are charged with doing, supported inward investment in his constituency. Following parliamentary rules, he kept well back from the entire process of planning application and approval. That is the council’s role, as is infringement of rights from local residents.

    The implication is, somehow, even after parliamentary enquiries and committee found him free of association or manipulation, Salmond is best pals with Trump.

    We forget the odious Trump firing brutal abuse at Salmond over a wind farm Salmond refused to rescind.

    The hand-in-glove pals depicted is more pistols at dawn.

  183. Indy_Scot says:

    It’s a sad day when even Keiser Soze can’t mention Scotland’s Independence vote.

  184. Auld Rock says:

    I watched the news reports closely yesterday and what I noted particularly was that there were no vast crowd scenes only parades and Annie taking the salute. OK there were people there but you can be sure that if they were as vast as they claimed then they would have used panoramic shots to emphasise this but none – I wonder why – 35K – another unionist MSM Myth. Yet another attempt by unionists consigned to the midden, where they will all be on the 19th.

    Auld Rock

  185. Ken500 says:

    One of the main opponents lives in a chalet without planning permission. The ‘farmer’ worked for Trump before they fell out – over money?

  186. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Patrician –

    Great images. Many thanks.

  187. john king says:

    There’s a picture on Munguins republic showing two people who were shipped up to Scotland from England to canvass for the no campaign,
    the guy is one of the people who were canvassing my area yesterday,(you couldn’t miss him as he’s really tall) I first said the accents were local but thinking about it, the only one I heard speak was the guy who was in charge who was a little nyaff with a clipboard nearly as big a him
    so it turns out the local people who have such a desire for us to remain in the union come from Walthamstow, who knew?

  188. Bob Sinclair says:

    Yep, great pics. Hope the lovely smiley police woman doesn’t get any bother though. Might be worth counting the signatures on the banner. Looks like a lot there.

  189. Ken500 says:

    There is a disclaimer before the Keiser Report on RT. The Westminster politicans have made enough anti comments.

  190. Capella says:

    “Menie Links are nationally (and probably internationally) unique on account of the scale and dynamism of the sand sheet, the rate of inundation of adjacent dune features and the lack of human interference. It is one of the least disturbed sand dune systems in Britain. One notable element is the long-lived nature of the bare sheet of sand that dominates the area. The lack of vegetation colonisation suggests a vigorous aeolian environment hostile to the establishment of pioneer species and dune grasses that flourish on adjacent dunes.”
    From Assessment of the Geomorphological Interests at Foveran Links SSSI (ROAME No. F05AC701) a Commissioned Report No.232
    for SNH get it here http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports/232.pdf

  191. alistair says:

    Shock horror, Wings Over Scotland caught on film somewhere near the Ministry of Truth. Meanwhile Citizen Smart gives us a nice little ditty to hum along to the news next time you’re watching
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS9gPeVN2fA
    Also, the 10000 flags have arrived and were being handed out today. Make sure you get yours….

  192. john king says:

    You took the words right out of my mouth Capella. :)

  193. Thomas Valentine says:

    One important thing is that David Cameron the BBC and the rest, will know the truth. Their hope that this event would show a great surge of support has only left them with a sick feeling of disappointment. THEY KNOW THE TRUTH. Now I’ve never said this before “I’d like to be a fly on such and such a wall” but what would I give to see the private reactions of the Unionist leaders?

  194. john king says:

    Where do I get my flag Alistair?

  195. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    Armed Forces Day, a great day out for the fodder, i mean kids.

  196. john king says:

    so bleedin true Findley,
    just an advertising campaign for the next tranch of bodies to feed into the mincer.

  197. cynicalHighlander says:

    We do not have democracy and never have anywhere in Britain so to find who did or didn’t do will never be known until we actually get democracy.

    Brown envelope Britain has gone on for decades where political partys have set up consultancy agency after agency funded by the taxpayer to solve their manifestos promises as they were only election sound bites to get their hands on power. Then they can quote these think tank findings as impartial.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28054435

    The MSM has been knobbled by the establishment through using national security to curtail how far they can go and now.

    https://twitter.com/diakritikal/status/483340522216775680

    Independence for Scotland scares Westminter to hell because it shows them up to be the lying charlatans they are and at the mercy of the rest of the UK.

  198. alistair says:

    @John King
    Mark (who organised it) is distributing them. I’ve got a box of them for the Stirling Yes shop. I would ask at your local Yes and see if they’re getting some. Mark was saying he’ll be at T in the park with them there as well.

  199. Grouse Beater says:

    Findlay hits the nail: Armed Forces Day, a great day out for the fodder, I mean kids.

    Yes, exactly.

    All that propaganda wasted to undermine Bannockburn yet what mother would take her kids to see soldiers march past rather than a great battle enactment and ice cream down on the green field?

  200. Lesley-Anne says:

    alistair says:

    Also, the 10000 flags have arrived and were being handed out today. Make sure you get yours….

    I’m expecting Mark to drop our order off personally tomorrow sometime, as well as a delivery for Dumfries. I can hardly wait. How will I be able to sleep tonight? Oh wait I know…

    One flag…Two flags…Three flags…Four ffflllagggggs…five mumble mumble… Six zzzzzzz :P

  201. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Kenny at al.

    Actually the SSSI at Menie was designated because of the mobile sand dunes system – now imobilised by Trump.

    Don’t forget that Jack McConnell courted Trump and then right at the start of the SNP’s term so did AS. Clearly his thinking was that it would signal that Scotland was open for business. But I think that he realised fairly quickly that it was a mistake to get into bed with Trump so obviously. I mean he’s hardly Trump’s favourite person now after the off-shore windfarm was approved, is he? So clearly the SNP has distanced itself quite quickly.

    I think that at the time the SNP was in power for the first time ever and made some mistakes (I’m not so sure about the new Forth Bridge either) but I think they got up to speed petty damn quickly and I think they also realised that a consensual approach and not pandering to big business was a better way for Scotland to go forward.

    (By the way, you do know when Labour go on about the possible corporation tax cut for big business, it’s actually for ALL business, even the teeny wee ones with one employee? Just to get that straight).

    Anyone want to criticise Alex Salmond for the imminent dualling of the A9, or keeping tuition fees down or protectng the S-NHS as best it can? Those are some of the tangible and real prorities and successes for the SG.

  202. Edward says:

    The 35,000 figure was actually for across the UK as a whole and not just Stirling

    There were events as per previous AFD across the whole of the UK, conveniently the BBC glazed over that fact
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-28072482

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-28062899

    The number for Stirling was 1600 or as the BBC at one time reported ‘around 2000′

    The BBC like to manipulate figures. Take another instance when they play the figures down at the protest at its own Scottish HQ in Pacific Quay. Online it reports ‘hundreds’ and a figure, reportedly from the Police of ‘350’

    Where as the attendant crowd was estimated by Police Scotland as being nearly 2000 !

  203. DaveDee says:

    BBC reports “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters”

    A very strange expression. in all my years of reading, watching marches,demos etc I have never seen or heard the police give a ‘maximum’ figure, it’s usually police estimated the crowd,demonstrators etc at such and such or even between such and such.

    Why would they give a ‘maximum’ figure? especially when by most accounts there were many more than that. It leave’s them open to question if it can be proved that it was over 350.

  204. scottish_skier says:

    One important thing is that David Cameron the BBC and the rest, will know the truth. Their hope that this event would show a great surge of support…

    This.

  205. alistair says:

    For those of you who missed Bannockburn Live on Saturday, or had got drookit and gawn hame, or whatever, here’s Dougie singing Caledonia in the rain from yesterday at Bannockburn
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVfJAe2QxkQ
    Enjoy.

  206. Airdrieonian says:

    Was at PQ today and would estimate the crowd to be ~1000-1200 (based on being at football matches with similar numbers).
    Well done to all who attended with their colourful, and witty, banners.
    If we do this again we need:
    1) A raised platform for speakers/performers etc.
    2) A decent PA system
    3) A compare
    4) A settled running order
    5) Organised chanting.

    A symbolic “delivery” to the BBC – a letter to Boothman or McQuarrie or something.

  207. Gordon E says:

    @ Jim Thomson
    8:11 pm

    Thanks very much for that, yet more reading to be done before bedtime.
    Great this internet business, there can’t be a more educated bunch in the history of referendums!
    Instead of dreading the next No or undecided encounter, I really look forward to it.
    Thanks to Wings, Bella, Newsnetscotland etc, the Unionists don’t stand a chance in a debate with the public.

  208. bookie from hell says:

    I notice bbc are now reporting Bannockburn event

    better now then never—caught on the hop.or intentional?

  209. X_Sticks says:

    DaveDee says:

    “BBC reports “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters””

    Let’s look at that again..

    “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters, who carried flags and banners outside Pacific Quay, the BBC’s Glasgow base.”

    There probably were about 350 protesters who carried flags and banners. The rest of us didn’t carry flags or banners. I would guess at least 3 times that figure.

  210. Alan of Neilston says:

    We were there THE NEILSTON BRIGADE and it was probably 1000 there also. Next time we need a better P.A. System to hear good speakers. The Pipers drowned out Speeches needs to be more organised but its a start.

  211. G H Graham says:

    A celebration of one of Scotland’s key periods in history that actually cemented the nation state known as Scotland as an independent sovereign nation was of course completely snubbed by Cameron & his Royal friends yesterday.

    Regardless of the sell out crowd & the miserable attendance for Armed Forces Day, it is quite revealing that the Prime Minister of the UK of GB & NI deliberately chose to avoid making an appearance at this monumental event.

  212. Grouse Beater says:

    BfH said: notice BBC are reporting Bannockburn event – better now then never.

    Yes, but had it been held darn sarf it would have had an hour’s television transmission, if not today, because it clashed with another, ahem, nearby event, then edited and shown a few days later as prime time viewing.

  213. X_Sticks says:

    BTW Great catching up with WoS folks albeit briefly. Couldn’t believe the number of signatures on the Wings banner by the end. Awsome.

    Great coverage of the media’s take on the events Rev. Good to see the Scottish event being fully subscribed in spite of the media. It was pretty dreich on the Saturday, I hope they got better weather today, and that the organisers got some more facilities in place. The long slow queues for everything left little time to get round all the other stuff.

  214. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry for going O/T here folks but thought I’d better warn you all there is going to be a bloodbath in Glasgow tomorrow night. Specifically at Pacific Quay. :P

    A certain Mr Sillars will be *ahem* debating with Mr Forsyth on BBC Scotland’s *cough* flagship programme Scotland 2014. ;)

    Monday debating on @BBCScot2014 with Michael Forsyth. Tuesday Speaking in Gorbals, Wednesday in East Kilbride #indyref

    Does anyone know if the BBC have made the necessary arrangements for Mr Forsyth to be transported to the local A & E department after this *ahem* spectacular? :P

  215. MajorBloodnok says:

    I didn’t know Forsyth had any blood in him. Thought it was replaced with glycerine yonks ago.

  216. scottish_skier says:

    George Galloway writes for the Daily Mail defending the union.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2673664/GEORGE-GALLOWAY-This-new-Battle-Britain-nearly-vital-So-I-urge-fellow-Scots-JUST-SAY-NAW.html

    Fascinating how the referendum has made the British ‘left’ (ahem) the biggest fans of the Express, Telegraph, Daily Mail etc.

  217. Paula Rose says:

    Just a wee reminder – your new anthem if you vote no…

    O fearties of Scotland
    When will we see our like again
    That gave up the fight for
    our own independence
    And cast a no vote to continue
    Westminster rule
    And sent the money
    Down south again

    The tills are bare now
    And politicians lie through and through
    We all did our duty
    Which we so dearly held
    And cast a no vote to continue
    Westminster rule
    And now we love being
    A region for sure

    18th of September is passed now
    A genetically challenging day
    But we can still vote now
    In our wee pretendy parliament
    And cast a wee vote
    For B-list MSPs
    And make sure we never
    forget our place again

  218. Lesley-Anne says:

    MajorBloodnok says:

    I didn’t know Forsyth had any blood in him. Thought it was replaced with glycerine yonks ago.

    Right enough Major, thanks for correcting me there. Maybe he won’t need to be taken to the local A & E department after all perhaps a local engineering works would do instead. :P

  219. Ann says:

    Dougie McLean and Caledonia.

    Gosh, that brings back memories.

    I heard him sing this song 20 odd years ago at a Runrig concert in Edinburgh and hearing him today on the video clip had exactly the same reaction, a lump in my throat and a wee tear in the eye.

    Such emotion and feeling and very, very apt on such a special occasion as the celebration of the Battle of Bannockburn.

  220. Lets try and spread truth and honesty between ourselves for we know the media wont give us any.The media lost all integrity a few years ago when their favourite political party failed in their bid t win in their stronghold of Scotland.Today and for the foreseeable future we wont get any truth nor honesty from the “British Media” and the “Scottish Media” are nowhere to be found,if they ever existed in the first place.

  221. caz-m says:

    Patrician
    Oh the memories, great pics.

    I had a really great day today, manning the Wings banner with you. Fantastic meeting all the other Wings foot soldiers. That Ronnie Anderson really is a hard gaffer, he made us hold that banner until the place was empty.

    Loads of pics and vids taken of the banner, so the Wings logo will be spread far and wide tonight.

    I have uploaded a couple of pics. (First time)

    http://caz121.imgur.com/all/

    Can’t wait for the next protest, hopefully middle week of Commonwealth Games, max publicity worldwide.

    Special wee hi to Jeannie.

  222. MajorBloodnok says:

    Yes the original transfusion was a complicated procedure, but Forsyth showed considerable sang-froid. Both before and after.

  223. Proud Cybernat says:

    They try to talk up the BIG UK event–and what happens? No one is interested. The BBC will try and ham it up for all its worth–they just do not get it. Well, maybe they do but they’ll never admit it on public telly. But a wee look along the road would have told the where the wind is blowing–where the people’s loyalties in Scotland truly rest. Feel the breeze BBC–feel the breeze. There’s truly is a lost cause–yae can fool some of the people and all that.

    BBC–we have your number. And so do teh people of Scotland. Have to try harder.

  224. caz-m says:

    I think this is link to pics,

    http://imgur.com/a/8Dlts#0

  225. Adrian B says:

    Why would they give a ‘maximum’ figure? especially when by most accounts there were many more than that. It leave’s them open to question if it can be proved that it was over 350.

    There is an extremely easy answer to this question. The police often ‘under estimate’ the size of the crowd in actual numbers. Its far more common than many think and is not just limited to ‘Indy’ events.

    In simple terms it is down to the early health and safety analysis done for the event. If they decide that the event poses a low risk of trouble then they will adjust the number of officers on the ground down to the amount that they believe to be a workable number in the circumstances – more officers will be available if required. This I believe is what we have seen today and if the police admitted that the number of at PQ was closer to 1800 – 2000 then someone would be in great trouble as they have made a decision to have enough officers for a maximum of 350.

  226. cynicalHighlander says:

    @caz-m

    caz121’s images are not publicly available.

  227. cynicalHighlander says:

    @caz-m

    Zoinks! You’ve taken a wrong turn.

    Not your night is it.

  228. ronnie anderson says:

    Hiya lads n lasses I hope that all that made it to Pacific
    Quay had a good day,wan question ( how did that bloody hairy string get tied tae the Wings Banner)> It is always
    a pleasure to meet the many people representing the various Indy groups,& the passion & dedication shines through. To all the lurkers re lurchers ( you will find your bark like the many before you ).To all the posters of Vids /photos you have done the people proud, there’ll be many a keep sake of today,especialy the Policewoman & her collegue, I think the Panda’s made her day ( ah knows who’s you,s ur wink wink . I know I can speak on behalf of the Wings team, We will be up for the next outing,we had a brilliant day amongst brilliant people.

  229. bookie from hell says:

    REV–u couldn’t make it up

    sky paper review 1030

    re-watch 1130pm

    guardian

    Labour going to announce lower corperation tax later this week

    ED this past week in Scotland,hammering SNP about corperation tax in a independent Scotland

    wtf

  230. Tam Jardine says:

    Grouse Beater

    Canny see them holding any Bannockburn events marking the 700th anniversary darn sarf… I but I get your point!

    The BBC in Scotland has reached its nadir this weekend , from which they paradoxically will no doubt sink further. They have proved a more formidable enemy to our ambitions for Scotland’s future than Better No Together Thanks U KOK.

    To hell with them.

    Well done to everyone for the great turnout today. Looked great on the live stream – thought the good Prof was wonderful (amidst so many other great Yessers). Pretty down i could not be there. Thank you.

  231. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks, I know we are all still enjoying the aftermath of today’s excellent event at Pacific Quay, we’ll good news folks the next event has been announced.

    http://tinyurl.com/nawanhv

    Are they ready for what is about to befall them in a month’s time? :P

  232. KennethC says:

    Went to Bannockburn Live today- lots of people, and was really encouraged by the large number of Yes t-shirts and stickers (also saw a guy with a Wings t-shirt!) It actually seemed like they were unprepared for the numbers- large queues for the bars and food stalls, as well as the battle re-enactments.

    Didn’t see a single UKOK/No Thanks while I was there- I found that quite surprising.

  233. goldenayr says:

    Just back in,canvassing earlier then out helping a mate with some work,absolutely knacked.The replies on the doorsteps kept me going though,plenty yessers.

    So,in short,too tired to read all comments and see what the numbers at PQ were.Anyone care to enlighten me?

  234. Edward says:

    scottish_skier
    I would tend to ignore George Galloway, as he has become the clown prince of politics. Complete with court jester attire!

    Writing in the right wing Daily Mail, just reaffirms his position as court jester and some one not really worth listening to as he contributes nothing to the debate.
    Galloway has shown to be an opportunist at every turn

  235. Grouse Beater says:

    Tam said: Canny see them holding any Bannockburn events marking the 700th anniversary darn sarf…

    Aye, Tam, but it would be retitled, “It’s a Knockout!”

  236. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @goldenayr –

    Excuse me being nosey, but whereabouts were you canvassing earlier?

    PS I don’t know what the numbers were – being in the middle of it, impossible to guess. Too many different numbers flying about.

  237. goldenayr says:

    Ian brotherhood

    Perth

  238. Patrician says:

    @caz-m, great photos man. If OK with you I am going to steal a few and add to my gallery. I have time-ordered and added titles and comments to my gallery at http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#0

  239. caz-m says:

    cynicalHighlander

    It’s ma first time, be gentle with me. lol try this for ma couple of PQ2 pics.

    http://imgur.com/a/8Dlts#0

  240. April Prior says:

    I went up on Saturday and didn’t have a ticket, couldn’t get in for Love nor money, it was a sell out. £20 a ticket and it sold out as opposed to armed forces day which was £5 a ticket and they sold half

  241. Graeme Doig says:

    Great to be at PQ today to swell the numbers by one. See EBC have reported event just so they can say they are ‘impartial and fair’ no doubt.
    Back to business as usual tomorrow lads eh (glad to be doing something but still pissed off face thingy)

  242. Jeannie says:

    @caz-m

    Lovely to meet you today. And you never swore even once :-)

    Do you know, as I was walking away it occurred to me that the River Clyde would look great with a boat sailing down it with a couple of large Wings banners on it, some saltires and Yes signs. A flotilla would be even better, of course. Would any readers just happen to have such a boat by chance?

  243. kininvie says:

    There’s an interesting discussion on twitter between David Leask @leasky (chief Herald reporter) & various yessers. It’s friendly enough, but it tellingly encapsulates the media view.

    Leask’s line (and I don’t think I do him an injustice in summarising) is that the PQ event was damaging to Yes because it was amateur, had no idea about PR, had no idea about how to make the media work (pushing the right buttons), could be exploited by No as nutty nats reverting to type – and it was clear from the official Yes campaign not associating themselves with it that this was correct.

    It’s very revealing that an experienced journalist takes this view – because it shows the extent to which politicians and media have decided what the rules of the game are. In other words, if you aren’t a player and know all about the ‘right buttons’ – then you are just an amateur, and your efforts are likely to damage your cause.

    This – to my mind – explains why the MSM just don’t get the Yes campaign. They react instinctively to VoteNoBorders and the like, because it’s a PR-fronted organisation which pushes the right buttons. But a whole load of people waving banners or putting out Yes stickers – it’s just so amateurish and ineffective.

    The wisest thing Blair Jenkins has said is to welcome the fact that the Yes campaign is now beyond control. It is revealing that No can’t think like this – to them, the evil cybernats must be being co-ordinated because that is how things are done.

    So, lads & lassies – it’s the amateurs against the professionals. The glorious, happy, anarchism of the Yes volunteers with their banners and panda suits and Yes signs in flowerbeds, against the politcos and MSM careerists who know the right buttons to push…

    If we win..when we win..there will be more than a few people shaking their heads in wonder and thinking it must have been a mistake.

  244. Onwards says:

    @Krackerman

    Just back from Bannockburn myself…..
    The only NO I saw was the two poor young lads handing out the “proud to be Scottish and delighted to be united” Blurggh stickers at the car-park entrance…
    No takers I saw…

    I saw these guys also on the way out.

    “Excuse me Sir, would you like a car sticker to support the union.. to vote NO in September..”

    I understand the event itself was supposed to be non-political, but this was the entrance to the car park field, outside the venue.

    Fair play to them, it must have been a tough crowd.
    But disappointingly it looked like they had a few takers – Hopefully it was just to be polite, or to rip up afterwards :)

    But the YES Stirling guys were missing a trick here.

  245. caz-m says:

    Lesley-Anne

    I was hoping that they would pick Sunday July 27th for the next protest. The world’s media will be in town, so get them down to the protest as well.

    The Beeb’s mask is starting to slip Lesley-Anne.

    I was hopeful you and you other half could have made it today, but there is always the next one.

  246. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Good to see loads of folk had a great time at Bannockburn and at the BBC demo.
    I will be at the next demo as it looks like the BBC will never change it’s indy coverage.
    My prediction that they would cover the AF day exclusively was correct even if it was meant to be a joke. Perhaps it is the BBC that are the real joke.

    Up in Assynt on holiday. We truly have a most beautiful country.

  247. Bob Sinclair says:

    700 years ago hoplessly outnumbered amateurs took on probably the best equipped military in Europe, and we all know how that worked out.

  248. Lesley-Anne says:

    caz-m says:

    Lesley-Anne

    I was hoping that they would pick Sunday July 27th for the next protest. The world’s media will be in town, so get them down to the protest as well.

    The Beeb’s mask is starting to slip Lesley-Anne.

    I was hopeful you and you other half could have made it today, but there is always the next one.

    You weren’t the only one who was disappointed caz we were both disappointed as well but our health being what it is we very rarely make plans because we never really know how either of us will be feeling on the day. ;)

    That said we are both hoping to be in some semblance of fit state to be able to make the next protest in July. Still we enjoyed watching it via the live stream. :P

  249. caz-m says:

    OK, try that for PQ2 pics,

    http://caz121.imgur.com/

  250. Grouse Beater says:

    It’s very revealing that an experienced journalist takes this view –

    It’s the prevailing view, added to dyed-in-the-wool No voters, among most newspaper offices, and I’ve worked in a few as a column writer.

    I met it in the BBC and I met it in Sky, and, I’m sorry to say, good, kind friends who work for Murdoch and think any criticism of him is because “he’s so successful.”

    I cringe when they open up with their granite dislike of Scotland’s democracy and wonder why they feel I should take their insulting ‘banter.’

  251. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @kininvie –

    Agreed.

    What’s happening now is so far out of their comfort zone that they cannot even begin to comprehend what it’s all about.

    It’s like a dog looking at a cat which is looking at a mouse…?!

    I’ve confused meself now, but you’ll probably grasp what I’m on about.

    I was asked to do an interview this afternoon by a lad who just said he’s an ‘independent film-maker’. He wanted me to talk about WOS. What I ended up saying, in a very convoluted way, was that a lot of us are well past caring what the BBC does. We know what they’re all about, and we don’t expect them to change. But the BBC’s lovely set-up at PQ gives us a venue where we can meet, and we will grab every such opportunity – the real interactions and friendships which have grown from this movement are priceless, and could prove to be the single most important factor as we get nearer the big day.

    BT/BBC/MSM/UKOK/NOTHANKS have nothing genuinely ‘grass-roots’, and they haven’t the numbers, or plain guts, to even attempt to confront us at any public venue.

    They’re a busted flush, and all that’s left to them now is dirty tricks.

    (Having said all that, the RT treatment of whatever they filmed today could be very important.)

  252. Lesley-Anne says:

    Any one who missed the professor’s speech at the protest today can watch it here. ;)

    http://tinyurl.com/kq7c9eq

  253. goldenayr says:

    kininvie

    The pros also hate the fact that because we don’t follow their rules they don’t know what’s coming next.

    It’s evidenced in the Nos attacks.Instead of saying “We’re voting no because we are happy with the union”.They try to denigrate the very thought of an independent Scotland.By doing this they hope to put all those with no political interest into a state of fear.So that when we come along and say “We can do this or that” the poor electorate are left confused.

    What they can’t counter though,is the positivism of the ground troops.Our energy drive and vision is not to be underestimated when it comes to opening minds to the possibilities.

    And that is what the jaded,cynical hacks can’t get their heads round.

    I think that makes sense,my eyes are closing :-)

  254. alistair says:

    Bunch of amateurs up against the BBC, MSM editors, Big business directors in cahoots with upper levels of Tory party, Westminster Mps, House of Lords peers, yet another “independent” forecast institute, foreign presidents sticking their nose in, and the Scottish forelock tugging establishment.
    Where do I sign up ?

  255. caz-m says:

    Patrician
    ” I have time-ordered and added titles and comments to my gallery”

    I didn’t think that my pics opened, that is why I posted again.

    That is the first time with “Imgur”. I have not got a clue what that sentence that you wrote means. LOL

    I told you that you were the intelligent one. I was really great meeting you today and the rest of the gang.

    Did you see that date of the next one? It’s what I was hoping for, Sun July 27th, brill.

    That Ronnie Anderson is a hard man to work for, isn’t he.

  256. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Kininvie

    Totally agree. It’s intellectual arrogance from the ‘leader’ class that is pushing people towards a yes vote faster than anything.

  257. Bob Sinclair says:

    Caz-m
    You don’t say no to Ronnie :)

  258. Gary says:

    They fail completely to understand our psyche. We hate bullies, we enjoy pushing back and we will not be told what to think or how to act. We expect lies from them and they never disappoint. We care about others and would rather do without than take the food out of another’s mouth.

  259. Lesley-Anne says:

    Bob Sinclair says:

    Caz-m
    You don’t say no to Ronnie :)

    Well you could always TRY and say no just don’t expect to live for too much longer. I’m not implying anything you understand just making a wee suggestion. :P

  260. caz-m says:

    Ronnie Anderson

    You were on top form today. That policewoman will not forget meeting you.

  261. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Caz_m am here thats you struck aff the Irn Bru list,your makeing me oot as a zero paying employer ( lift that bail tote that Banner ) lol.

    Am sorry folks but the next proposed demo is during the
    Commonwealth Games an lord mc connell disnae want any politicing during the games,ave goat two lowdown hummfs at ma back an he can kiss baith.

  262. Cindie says:

    @kininvie thanks for the link. I went over and had a look at David Leask’s twitter and I think you’ve got it completely right. That comment that the 2000 people at PQ could/should have been campaigning instead? That’s the thing though, I’m sure at least as many people again were out campaigning this weekend and will be every weekend until the 18th September.

    There is so much happening that it’s hard to keep up. For my own part I know that the National Collective launched their Yestival this weekend with the Aye Inspired art exhibition. I have a piece of work in the exhibition, which took place at The Priory, Belmont Street, Aberdeen and will be touring this summer. More info, dates, pics etc, here: http://ayeinspired.blogspot.co.uk/

    Following a number of Yes people as I do on Twitter, it’s hard to keep up, there is humour, interesting links, stories, comments, loads of photos of folk campaigning. It is inspiring and all that the No campaign can seem to do is snipe, spin and complain.

    I think that @goldenayr is spot on too The pros also hate the fact that because we don’t follow their rules they don’t know what’s coming next.

    .

  263. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz_m, the day demonstates there is no need of a heavy
    polis presence we’re saving the taxpayers money.

    Rev that wee poliswoman would like to meet you, an am no bummin.

  264. Adrian B says:

    A political campaign has members that can all be controlled from the centre of that campaign.

    What Yes Scotland set up was a grass roots campaign – that is something that politicians are totally unable to control. Better Together were wrong footed from day one as they expected a political campaign like an ordinary election were the issues are decided amounts politicians.

    What has been created is a creative grass roots campaign of many different groups with many different interests but all with a single common goal of creating an Independent Scotland. We now have so many people on the ground taking part that no matter what the result on September 18th 2014 things will be changed because this participating want to shape and mould a different future.

    I am confident that we can and will get a significant Yes result in September and that thousands of people will help to form the ideas that will be the Scotland that emerges over the next few years. As Jim Sillars keeps saying (I paraphrase) “I hope that people will stick around after a Yes vote in September”

    The future is not written – those who want to stay involved will have a job to do. We cannot rely on sitting back down and letting the politicians get on with the job, that is were politics have gone wrong in the UK.

  265. Lesley-Anne says:

    ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz_m, the day demonstates there is no need of a heavy
    polis presence we’re saving the taxpayers money.

    Rev that wee poliswoman would like to meet you, an am no bummin.

    Sounds like she is either a secret Wings viewer and reader or a secret Yesser, more likely both in my view. :P

  266. goldenayr says:

    ronnie Anderson

    A few “BBC BIASED AGAINST SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE” banners during the games would make wee Jack happy.

  267. Patrician says:

    @caz-m

    I uploaded photos from 3 different sources, Gerry’s phone, my wifes phone and my own phone. The photos were originally displayed in the order they were uploaded to imgur which is not their real-time order (I would have more properly said chronological order). With imgur you have the option to change the photos display order, so by using their timestamps I moved them so they were in the correct order (use the “Rearrange images” link on your imgur page to move them). Use the “Edit image titles or descriptions” link to add a title or description to each photo.

    You can’t fault Ronnie as a boss, he works as hard as anyone. Although I think my wife told him to lighten up at least once today ;-)

  268. ronnie anderson says:

    gerry parker must be fair disappointed wie me thats two days we’ve been oot Frid Emburgh / today an nae arrests as yet, an nae Cybernats got a overnight stay in the Govan Hilton lol.

  269. bookie from hell says:

    Scottish Unionist Politicians think their Big Fish in Scotland.

    This referendum campaign has forever changed this.YES campaigns grow from every crook & crannie.

    Devo + was off ballet paper for one reason only,to kill off any notion of a nation state,Scotland.

    This why YES vote needs a win or with 2%.

    Most shocking thing ive learnt this campaign is bbc un-neutrality(is their such a word)

    Scotland 2014 is past saving

  270. ronnie anderson says:

    @patrician an Jan worked just as hard as us big kisses fae me.

  271. goldenayr says:

    Since nobody could tell me numbers,had a look at the photos from The Man in the Jar.

    That is one impressive crowd,a lot more than the first.

    Well done you.

  272. ronnie anderson says:

    @ leslie Anne i could’nt possibly comment on their political views, all i would say is their a credit to the Scottish Police Service winky thingies.

  273. HandandShrimp says:

    I feel sorry for Galloway. He once had something akin to principle. To be reduced to have his back slapped by the UKIP voting ultra Tories of the Mail actually leaves me cold.

    I’m glad he was given the bum’s rush in the Holyrood elections in 2011. I really don’t think he has a clue any more. I can see him settling comfortably into a Woodrow Wyatt persona and tilting at windmills for the remainder of his days.

  274. North chiel says:

    Rev Campbell ,the preceding article” four days
    Late” really should be given maximum prominence.
    It is utterly disgraceful and sickening that families and children
    Are now starving here in our country due to the incessant attacks
    By the Tory led DWP and continual welfare cuts imposed
    By these contemptible cretins on our poorest and
    Most vulnerable people .if ever there was a reason
    For our people to vote for independence NOW ,it is surely
    TIME to get rid of these “better together” bleaters
    Now and FOR GOOD!
    What a shameful story , and sad indictment
    Of “London Westminster misrule”.
    “Pay them off ” on September 18th .RECLAIM
    OUR COUNTRY and RESTORE OUR “SCOTTISH
    VALUES of SOCIAL JUSTICE ! The strong should help
    “Carry the weak” in our society.

  275. caz-m says:

    Patrician

    Techy question, last one tonight, What is it that you “copy” to here, so people can open your pics.

  276. Patrician says:

    @ronnie

    This one just for you: http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#33

  277. goldenayr says:

    The footies done and am now watching Monty Python.

    Why are there no more parodies of upper class twits commissioned by the beeb anymore?

    Put in a,slightly,tongue in cheek complaint to the bbc that they stopped commissioning Harry Enfield progs because of this.

  278. Lesley-Anne says:

    ronnie anderson says:

    @ leslie Anne i could’nt possibly comment on their political views, all i would say is their a credit to the Scottish Police Service winky thingies.

    I wouldn’t expect you to ronnie. Unlike the NO Together, or whatever they call themselves this week, we do not put words into the mouths of others. Nor do we use psychic powers to implant thoughts into the minds of others. :P

  279. ronnie anderson says:

    @bookie from hell. this campain is like a boulder comeing of the top of a mountain,a lot of wee stanes come doon wie it,an they add mair weight,an they could never understand that.

  280. Patrician says:

    @caz-m

    Just copy what is in the address bar into the comment box here, don’t change it. I haven’t had any issues looking at any of the links you provided, although the earlier links don’t work now.

    There is a share option on the page but I can never find the option I want on it, so I just copy from the address bar.

  281. Ian Brotherhood says:

    What’s happened to all the usual ‘morning-rolls’?

    Are ye’s there ‘morning-rolls’?

    Nothing to say?

  282. Flooplepoop says:

    O/T a good article from the Scotsman for a change
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-overpays-for-uk-debt-1-3185848#.

  283. X_Sticks says:

    @Ronnie

    The Rev needs your address to send your badge.

    Zebedee’s giving me a hard time,’,, ;)

    Night all.

  284. goldenayr says:

    LA

    “Nor do we use psychic powers to implant thoughts into the minds of others”

    I thought our alien friends from the VNB site were helping us with that?

  285. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    What Yes Scotland set up was a grass roots campaign – that is something that politicians are totally unable to control.

    And that is why it doesn’t matter two hoots if some visionless idiot in Hope Street gets all huffy about Stu using the sort of language on Twitter as has been used against elected politicians since the species first emerged.

    Duncan Hothersall has been roaming Twitter denouncing any Yes campaigner he sees “promoting” Wings as disobeying instructions from Yes Scotland. (Actually I think he’s given up because it happens so often.) He doesn’t realise that Yes Scotland doesn’t give us instructions, and if it tried to “instruct” us to do something we didn’t agree with, we’d prove to be very poor students.

    We’re autonomous. We’re grass-roots. We’re self-starting. And we do what we like. We just get campaigning materials from Hope Street. Sometimes. If they’re in stock. When we haven’t designed and produced our own. And THEY DON’T TELL US WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO.

    So people who think Wings is a damn fine thing will go right on promoting it. And Yes Scotland won’t do a damn thing about it, because they know if they tried it, they’d be told to f:) ck off. Politely, of course.

  286. Flooplepoop says:

    Meh, last post appears to be 8 months old.. oh well, doesn’t change the veracity of it :)

  287. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Damn, screwed up that little joke, didn’t I.

    They’d be told to f :) ck off, of course.

  288. goldenayr says:

    X_Sticks

    Then leave Florence alone :-D

    Oichde mhath

  289. Liquidlenny says:

    What a great afternoon at pathetic quay i thought the way that an a pop up stage appeared and all the brill enternainers just happened made the day a reel grassroutes protest
    Good to meet up again with fellow wossers and i estimated about 1500 or more

    Pity i will miss next one as on holiday

  290. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:

    LA

    “Nor do we use psychic powers to implant thoughts into the minds of others”

    I thought our alien friends from the VNB site were helping us with that?

    WHEESHT! I thought we agreed we’d keep that secret! We can’t have Better Thanks or whatever knowing ALL of our plans too early. We need to be able to throw them to e occasional wobbler don’t you know. :P

  291. Andrew says:

    Hi folks,

    I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling trailer campaign?

    http://igg.me/at/Yes-Stirling-Advert-Trailer-Campaign/x/6564848

    We’ve just started this campaign and are short of our target but your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

    Folks, we really need these trailers. They are vital to the success of Yes winning the Yes vote in the Stirling constituency. Please give what you can!

  292. goldenayr says:

    LA

    Yeah,sorree.

    Should’ve thought it to you instead.

    We’ll do a test first,I’ll think a joke about Darling you tell me if it’s too crude.

  293. Bob Sinclair says:

    You just have to look at the banner signatures to see what people really think of Wings.

    The amount of people coming up and saying thanks was really encouraging (I’m not going to take any credit for that – it’s down to guys like Ronnie and Gerry).

    I see Hothersall is taking a slightly different approach now, aided and abetted by the prospective Labour candidate for Angus, Kathy Wiles, by comparing the kids at PQ2 with the Hitler Youth. Truly, that man has no moral compass, and for a prospective electoral candidate to use such analogy is just disgusting. Everyone in Angus needs to know what Labour are putting up as a candidate.

  294. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:

    LA

    Yeah,sorree.

    Should’ve thought it to you instead.

    We’ll do a test first,I’ll think a joke about Darling you tell me if it’s too crude.

    Now you’re thinking! :P

    No not that one, don’t think it would pass Stu’s quality control. I think this one has a far better punch line though what do you think? ;)

  295. Flower of Scotland says:

    Did you all see that Max Kieser at RT said that the regulators in London have told them that they are not allowed to discuss the Scottish Referendum until after Sept! I think that all media outlets have been told the same.

    Does this not make you so angry! It does me! Who the hell do they think they are!

  296. goldenayr says:

    LA

    Snigger,snigger,snort!

    Aye,fair doos,that works better.

    Q.where did he get the monkey wrench from though?

  297. bookie from hell says:

    another TORY calling for FEDERALISM,an hes a staunch unionist

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-monteith-federal-uk-may-gather-real-support-1-3460607

    PANIC STATIONS–ALL DECKS ( : > )

  298. Lesley-Anne says:

    I saw that over on Twitter FoS and am so mad about this. Westminster doing everything it can to shut down debate and the passing of information between the people of Scotland.

    We don’t give a flying pig about what THEY want THIS is what they are going to get. WE will continue to discuss indpendence. WE will continue to pass on information to others. WE will continue to pursue other media outlets to help pass the message. WE will NEVER be silenced. WE are the people of of Scotland. WE will WIN in September…get used to this FACT! :P

  299. goldenayr says:

    Flower of Scotland

    News outlets aren’t allowed to discuss newsworthy events?

    Are we breaking the rules by discussing it?

  300. ronnie anderson says:

    @Morag Graham Kerr, noo calm yer jet engines on Yes Scotland, thats what they expect us to do infighting, things are in hand I heard it on the grape vine,I mentioned it to a certain partys on Frid nite.

  301. MajorBloodnok says:

    Reading about the PR bods’ reaction on twitter to the PQ demo today reminded me of what happened this weekend. I was on the YES Marchmont stall in the Meadows where there are normally about half a dozen of us.

    One of the most useful leaflets is the ‘Aye Right’ one that we just hand out to passers by (I really like the ‘Think about it, Talk about it’ message). But we had a new guy on the stall that I’d not seen before, from the SNP apparently, and he said straight off that we shouldn’t be handing out the ‘Aye Right’ leaflet because Wings was listed on it and it was was run by a homophobe who had blamed the Hillsborough victims for their own deaths.

    I told him in no uncertain terms that that was not true and he should not just blindly believe whatever the Unionst press said, did he not think they had an agenda? He said he’d read it was true on Better Nation…

    He did point out that YES Leith had had to pulp all their leaflets because of this and that we should be careful ‘in case someone from the Scotsman got hold of it.’

    Now, I could understand his point of view in that he was thinking about the MSM’s typical agenda and what its reaction would be but what annoyed me was that a) we were having to modify our own behaviour to suit the agenda of a main stream political entity b) we were being bounced into self censorship, but mostly c) why the hell should we be worried about what the Scotman thinks.

    I know that some others (also SNP) on the stall agreed with me, so when he went off we just started handing them out again (don’t tell him).

  302. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:

    LA

    Snigger,snigger,snort!

    Aye,fair doos,that works better.

    Q.where did he get the monkey wrench from though?

    A. where else the monkey exhibit at Edinburgh zoo. :P

  303. goldenayr says:

    bookie from hell

    Yup,said that when Murdo came out with it.

    They’ve realised their devo-something is not washing with the electorate and are upping the ante.

    Good thing is,it plays right into our hands.

    Them-“The system doesn’t work,lets change it.”

    Us-“They’ve admitted the system sucks and are trying to change it in their favour.”

  304. caz-m says:

    Patrician

    Thanks for that.

  305. ronnie anderson says:

    @Bob sinclair,im gonny be hard pushed to find a space tae put ma name on the banner but we have a good team, awe they Wingers fae far n wide.

  306. Lesley-Anne says:

    bookie from hell says:

    another TORY calling for FEDERALISM,an hes a staunch unionist

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-monteith-federal-uk-may-gather-real-support-1-3460607

    PANIC STATIONS–ALL DECKS ( : > )

    Hmm.

    Does this mean that the Tories are the new Lib Dems or are the Lib Dems the new Tories with this idea of the *ahem* Tory calling for this Federalism. :P

  307. goldenayr says:

    LA

    Aah!

    That’s where the banana skins,he keeps slipping on,came from.

    SiS are going to be tearing their hair out with this one :-D

  308. Mary Bruce says:

    Just in after an enjoyable weekend at Stirling and BBC protest, my report is probably a repeat of what has been said earlier:

    Turned up at Bannockburn yesterday and got turned away due to the sell out. Annoyed and pleased at the same time. Went to town for lunch then went for a drive past the AFD site, it was around 3pm-3.30pm and the rain was torrential, there must have been 1000 people walking briskly along the road from the site to the station. Most folk weren’t dressed for a heavy downpour. I reckon that’s when most folk left.

    We then went for a quick trip to Dobbies, and came out in time to see the Red, White and Blue sky acrobatics. Driving past again it was obvious that there was hardly anyone left at the site, carparks were mostly empty and traffic was pretty light. (confirms Craig Murray’s photos)

    We tried again for Bannockburn this morning, getting there as it opened. We brought a packed lunch (as advised on Wings, thanks for the tip, guys). We went to the first battle in the arena at 11.30, didn’t have to queue more than 2 mins. By the time we came out the queue was about a mile long to get into the next showing. It was mobbed, I’d reckon the 10-12k estimate is about right. I can see why people would be annoyed at the queues.

    We left Stirling around 1.10pm arriving at Pacific Quay at 2pm. What a great occasion, positive atmosphere, very upbeat, lots of music, nice weather. I reckon there were at least 1000 there. Apparently (word of mouth) there was a bus full of police sitting round the corner around 2pm but it went away. Have no way of confirming this.

  309. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:

    LA

    Aah!

    That’s where the banana skins,he keeps slipping on,came from.

    SiS are going to be tearing their hair out with this one :-D

    I didn’t know they had any hair left to pull out! :P

  310. Lanarkist says:

    Well said Major, they will now throw everything at us, try to divide us, create points of frisson, pressure points identified and activated.
    I cannot believe an SNP activist spouting words like these, do these people not read, research and come to their own conclusions.
    Grassroots is just that, people deciding what, how and who is real and getting involved in their own way.

    WOS has been an inspiration to so many, wakened thousands and the MSM have no answers to this. Keep on doing what we are doing, keep on keeping on and getting on with each other.

    After Sept 18th we can move on to policy differences, until then only one thing matters, any way we can get it, Yes!

    They will not play fair, we have to understand that and fight back with everything we have at our disposal and that definitely includes WOS and Aye Right leaflets!

    More power to your elbow!

  311. goldenayr says:

    MajorBloodnok

    Your secrets safe with the millions of Wingers.

    :-D

  312. ronnie anderson says:

    @ X Sticks, ok will do thanks.

  313. macart763m says:

    @Kininvie

    I agree with Ian, Mr Leask so has the wrong end of the stick and his ‘professionals’ slip is showing. I think today’s PQ protest is all the more effective and impressive because it was Joe public, live, heartfelt and unscripted. Ordinary people with a cause coming together to make their feelings known peacefully and with some humour and colour from what I’ve seen of the vids to date.

    Had it been some slick PR ‘event’ with politicians or personalities and a raft of meeja luvvies with scripted questions it wouldn’t resonate with the public at large. But what looks like a thousand bodies having a party on the steps of PQ?

    They simply have no way of handling that. That for me is the true power and effect of YES grass roots campaigning.

  314. MajorBloodnok says:

    THat’s it you see we’re all loose cannons, but we’re all rolling off in the same general direction!

  315. thoughtsofascot says:

    “which no one knows where it took place, never mind why.”

    That just about describes WW1 then.

    Seriously, the Scottish media is the most incompetent that I have ever seen, and by jove, my travels have taken me to many places with toothless, ineffectual media. They truly take the biscuit when it comes to wanton amateurism and partisan hackery.

  316. goldenayr says:

    LA

    Aye,after you take away the short and curlies we’ve got them by,that just leaves the armpits.

    Unless they shave…hmmm

  317. goldenayr says:

    MajorBloodnok

    After a couple of Guinness I’m looser than usual.

  318. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:

    LA

    Aye,after you take away the short and curlies we’ve got them by,that just leaves the armpits.

    Unless they shave…hmmm

    Now you’re really starting to conjure up images I’d rather do without. :) Just as well I’ve got the prospect of our YES flags arriving today to keep me on the straight and narrow. :P

  319. Brian MacLeod says:

    It looks like we’re a mob of amateurs up against a small cadre of polished professionals.

    Just one problem.

    We’re amateurs with a vote. :)

  320. Lesley-Anne says:

    Not only amateurs with a vote Brian but there’s one hell of a lot MORE of us than there is of them! :P

  321. Rock says:

    Flower of Scotland,

    “Did you all see that Max Kieser at RT said that the regulators in London have told them that they are not allowed to discuss the Scottish Referendum until after Sept! I think that all media outlets have been told the same.”

    ‘Not allowed’?

    So the UK is a police state then, like North Korea?

    Which ‘regulators’?

    They should be reported to the Council of Europe, NOW.

    Or are Keiser and RT hiding something? They are always ready to give Daily Mail writer George Galloway a platform to spout whatever lies he wants.

  322. Lesley-Anne says:

    I can only assume they were referring to OFCOM Rock.

  323. Rock says:

    UKIP TV:

    “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters, who carried flags and banners outside Pacific Quay, the BBC’s Glasgow base.”

    NewsnetScotland:

    “A demonstration held outside BBC Scotland’s Glasgow Headquarters in protest at the broadcaster’s coverage of the independence referendum has attracted over 2000 people.”

    Are the Police so incompetent that they cannot even estimate 2000 people reasonably accurately?

  324. goldenayr says:

    LA

    OK,hows this for an image?

    Cameron,Osborne,Curran,Carmichael,Davidson et al being waxed by JoLa and JaBa.

    Nae nichtmares noo :-D

  325. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oh thanks for that goldenayr :P

    Don’t get too het up about the police and their estimates Rock remember they were quoted as saying 350 carrying flags and banners. There were one hell of a lot of folks there who had neither a flag or a banner. :P

  326. goldenayr says:

    Rock

    The beeb said there were 35,000 at AFD yesterday.

    BWAHAHAHAHA

  327. Adrian B says:

    Had it been some slick PR ‘event’ with politicians or personalities and a raft of meeja luvvies with scripted questions it wouldn’t resonate with the public at large. But what looks like a thousand bodies having a party on the steps of PQ?

    Thousands of people from all walks of life, backgrounds and political views are now well engaged and networking around Scotland. If the press are out of the loop then it is they that need to catch up with a modern Scotland.

    If the media think that these people will give up being pro-active after September 18th then they have another thing coming. The success of the YES campaign is due to the fact that so many are now energised.

    If the media wanted to get some quotes from today then they only had to go down to PQ – there was no secret in the event – its been all over twitter/facebook and mentioned in numerous web sites over the last few weeks.

    The BBC followed all the press and reported wall to wall on a free event need Stirling. What actually happened was that people paid money to go to a different event that the media hardly bothered to mention. Who is out of touch?

  328. Adrian B says:

    Are the Police so incompetent that they cannot even estimate 2000 people reasonably accurately?

    I believe that the police at the event said about 2,000 attended PQ. The 350 figure is probably in line with the Health and Safety assessment that they were duty bound to carry out. I would suggest that the event had enough police attending for a crowd of 350 maximum.

    The difference is neither here nor there to be honest. Police attendance figures are routinely presented as being lower than the likely figures.

    The important thing that has happened from the PQ demo is that it is being talked about in wider circles whilst many attending have been networking and meeting up with others from social media that they know.

  329. Defo says:

    The ying and the yang of it is this.

    Given the unseen costs of staging AFD will have probably brought the total cost to the taxpayer up to around £700,000, then that crowd of 35K v small people cost £20 per propagandised scone.

    Whereas, a similar number of peeps (over 2 days) thought enough of the occasion to fork out £20ish each.

    O/T We need to make much of Cruddas letting the cat out the focus group policy bag.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/29/ed-balls-labour-jon-cruddas-dead-hand-reforms

    Well done to all who made it to PQ, to stick their heids above the parapet.
    Total PQ cost to the taxpayer ? A priceless rebate. :-)

    BTW Was in West Lothian earlier, Pumpherston and Uphall main road and side street’s off had a butchers apron hanging from every other lamp post. Apparently those gentlemen and ladies of the OO were out breaking the law parading away in their quaint uniforms, like busy little bee’s all over the county.

    Poor wee souls feet must be aching, and sashes aren’t cheap these days either. A niche industry, in decline.

  330. Tattie-bogle says:

    Sums it up

    http://t.co/xMGlK3hQVj

  331. macart763m says:

    @Adrian B

    “Who is out of touch?”

    Exactly my point Adrian. People know a stage managed set piece when they see one. All fur coat and nae knickers as t’were. That so many ordinary people were engaged and motivated enough to make a serious point won’t be missed by the public.

  332. bjsalba says:

    O/T a bit but this item might of interest http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/emma-sangster/creep-of-militarism-into-our-civil-institutions

    Of course, all that glorification of military life might be because nobody wants to go into the military, or the TA.

  333. ronnie anderson says:

    E Mail SNP MSPs to remove any BBC broadcasting contracts

    from Hollyrood (Democrecy Live)they’re Bias editing of the

    FM / Dennis Canavan.Now that would be a clear statement

    to all Jounalists to report accuratley & in a unbais

    manner.

  334. James says:

    I was at the armed forces day I had to end up leaving half way through due to the high number of people there you could barley walk around the feild the 2500 people you suggest was there is a joke. Maybe you should of whent before critising the show.

  335. ronnie anderson says:

    Rev, Bbc Scot 7.30am Gary Robertson doing a interview with Steven Westley of NESTA buisness Inovation. ( Scotland could be in line for a £12B investment for small Countries), you need to listen to it Robertson trying to put the slant on whether it was dependant on the Referendem outcome Steven Westley did’nt play they’re game.

  336. Bob W says:

    @MajorBloodnok 12:44

    Mis-informed or a plant?

  337. Midgehunter says:

    Regarding RT being censored. This doesn’t sound quite right somehow.

    Since when has freedom of speech been denied to the people? This is not wartime.
    If the beeb and the msm newspapers etc. can discuss the referendum ad infinitum, then why not RT?

    Are Al Jazeera also being hobbled?

  338. Jock Watson says:

    I was at Bannockburn Live on Saturday and it was heaving. There was something like 15-20k people there (certainly way over 10k) and I think the organisers were caught a bit off guard. Massive queues for everything, but very entertaining at same time. BBC would not report on a Scottish historical festival though especially since they’d spent so much time talking it down. Even I was convinced it would be a disaster so I’m glad it wasn’t. It was also nice to see the FM there and it seemed like he was happier to be there than Armed Forces day.

  339. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    OT

    Re Cameron, Juncker and what the feck cam DC do try and sort out this clusterfuck?

    Baroness Ashtray has to be replaced and what are the odds that Clegg is now being sounded out for the role, having completely destroyed the LibDems for Cameron?

  340. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Midgehunter says:
    This is not wartime.

    I’m afraid it is wartime (or the non-violent equivalent).

    The British State is under existential threat.

  341. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bob W ( major bloodnok 12.44 ) who’s the plant, the grapevine or myself ?.

  342. ianbeag says:

    Report on Good Morning Scotland just before the 8.00am news still trumpeting the attendance at yesterday’s AFD as 35K – they don’t give up!

  343. caz-m says:

    Mornin Ronnie Anderson

    Just heard Gary Roberson tell listeners that BBC Scotland will be running events of it’s own during the Commonwealth Games, outside their building at Pacific Quay.

    It’s called “Free at the Quay”.

    I hope this is not going to be used as an excuse to bar us from holding PQ3 on 27th July at Pacific Quay.

    Get on the case Ronnie, I know you will get to the bottom of their evil plan.

  344. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz_m, morning to you. Gary Robertsons like the rest of them they’re all entered in the Sack Race,an am the wan hudding the tape. Every Ones A Winner Babe.

    rite am aff oot tae get ma car tae the paint sprayers, catch up laters.

  345. Macart says:

    Ooooo nice link Nana.

    Interesting to note their estimate was around 2000 in attendance.

  346. dennis mclaughlin says:

    I had to work yesterday, but enjoyed the live – stream when I got home….There must have been a few worried faces inside PQ :).

  347. Stu1314 says:

    For comparison check out the Telegraphs picture of Glastonbury about 100,000 people 35000 my @RSE

  348. Robert Peffers says:

    The difference between professional political media people and amateurs is the professionals are paid to push the views of their paymasters while the amateurs have no paymasters.

  349. Les Wilson says:

    The BBC announced this morning that during the Commonwealth Games they will be having events outside their door at Pacific Quay.

    Obvious as to why, they run events in front of the building, any event by bias campaigners will be reported as disrupting their events program. Then the police will prevent the gathering by making them disperse.

    Neat Huh!

  350. Macart says:

    @Les Wilson

    S’okay, we go next door to STV and party there. :)

  351. MajorBloodnok says:

    Wait, wait, WAIT EVERYBODY! Westminster does care about us after all:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-28070716

    First promises of federalism and now THIS! Wow.

  352. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    A bit more details of what BBC Scotland are planning on doing outside Pacific Quay during Commonwealth Games.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/shows/bbc_at_the_quay_summer14

    But it does say that ALL the events are free, so we all turn up as usual on the Sunday 27th.

    It is looking like it is going to be an very interesting day out.

    The world’s media are coming to Scotland, and we know we can,t beat the BBC with complaints or with holding License Fees, so what an opportunity we have to embarrass the Bastards in front of the whole world.

    We need to tell the world of the unionist propaganda that pours out of that building, and the lies that BBC Scotland tells the Scottish people on a daily basis.

  353. GrahamB says:

    UKBC are building a new, temporary set for their Free at the Quay events further along the river between the new Premier Inn and STV. It was looking fairly advanced from the plastic tunnel to the SECC from Exhibition station yesterday. Worth noting that the area round SECC will soon be in security lockdown for the Games so this approach to PQ will be blocked although it will be possible to detour round it.
    The space in front of the PQ building is shared with the Science Centre so even if they put stuff on at their front door they won’t be able to claim all of it. Anyway if they have to call in police it will increases the profile and news worthiness of any protests.

  354. heedtracker says:

    https://archive.today/YlAP1 another day, another we hate AlicSamin, makes about 100,000 we hate AlicSamin don’t we whineathons.

  355. John Lyons says:

    I was at Bannockburn. I played the part of Sir Neil Campbell. I commanded the third Shiltron for Edward Bruce. (I was the guy in black and yellow if you saw it.) From my point of view, the event was AWESOME, the best I’ve been to in 12 years of re-enacting. Clan Ranald deserve a lot of recognition for thier excellent work as do all the other groups.

    From a political point of view, they’re lying and we know they are. We were told the event was 100 short of a sellout on the Sunday. That’s an official figure from Bannockburn live of 19900 sales. This is despite a full on media campaign to sabotage it, and visit Scotland being obstructive. I heard negative comments from people about queues, something that became less of a problem as the weekend went on and security was more aware of what it was working with. Some other problems were due to visit Scotland insisting there would not be huge crowds, such as not a lot of toilets in the medieval village and not a lot of food stalls. The good news is they’re out and someone else will be involved next year.

    As for the no voters, just because they don’t wear ukok badges doesn’t mean they don’t exist. My own group, Historic Saltire, specialises in representing the Scots wars of independence and at least 6 out of 60 are no voters. (We’re working on them!) One torn faced woman asked me why it was called Bannockburn when it was in bore stone. I assume from her unhappy demeanor she was a no voter. (That’s the best way to spot them!)

    What all of that means is we’re winning, whatever they do can’t stop us. There’s still work to be done, but just like that sixth battle on Sunday night, all we need is one last big push and the party can start in earnest

  356. DocFin says:

    O/T Joseph Rowntree Foundation Report highlights that to have an acceptable standard of living a couple with 2 children needs to earn £40,600 to have an acceptable standard of living. Research found a minimum basket of goods up 28% since 2008, with food up by 26% and energy up by 45%. For every £1 low-income families gained from the raised tax allowance they have lost up to £4 as a result of cuts to tax credits and child benefit.
    Better Together?

  357. caz-m says:

    GrahamB

    That’s cleared that up a bit then, we will still have our usual space for PQ3. Only next time the crowds will be even bigger.

    Don’t let a wee BBC Scotland singalong get in the way of a good protest.

    PQ3 Sunday 27th July 2014, be there or be square.

  358. Les Wilson says:

    Macart says:

    Perhaps not just as easy to move next door.

    You are suggesting that STV are not biased, urm,and would not interfere, well they of course they are, note their lack of Bannockburn coverage for only one issue.

    They are just the lesser part of a two headed coin, don’t worry, they would also call the police if they share the event with the BBC. Scottish Democracy, it is a no no to these people. I hope all this bites them in the arse.( I know you hope that too!)

  359. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz_m every thing is fully booked anybody any idea how long this Bbc event has been advertized.

  360. Capella says:

    @ Nana Smith 9.14
    Interesting link
    “The attacks on JK Rowling for her donation to Better Together were, in fact, down to a very few people whose accounts no one could trace back to having anything to do with the ‘yes’ campaign,” Christina McKelvie said.
    So who were they? The police should have made arrests by now.

  361. Capella says:

    Looks like Telegraph has the details on J K Rowling “spies” story.
    https://archive.today/03MVm

  362. Bob W says:

    @ronnie anderson

    The alleged SNP supporter at MajorBloodnock’s Yes stall.

  363. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    talexicon

    The comment by enter is me.

    Weird sign up process in order to comment, thus I typed enter somewhere and it became my screen name.

    Bugger

  364. caz-m says:

    I know a lot of people won’t be able to attend the protest on the 27th July, but what you can do is help get the message out there, on Twitter or Facebook or by whatever means is available to you.

    Spread the word.

    As I have said many times, the only way you can beat the BBC is by embarrassing them. They tell the world that they are whiter than white. But we know that that is not the case.

    We witness their desperate tactics every day and we need to tell the world’s media of our struggle.

  365. Macart says:

    @Les Wilson

    No that’s not what I’m implying at all. :D LOL

    I wouldn’t trust any msm about as far as I could chuck a JCB. Just that the location is handy for simultaneous events. ;)

  366. bookie from hell says:

    John Lyons says:
    30 June, 2014 at 9:26 am
    I was at Bannockburn. I played the part of Sir Neil Campbell. I commanded the third Shiltron for Edward Bruce. (I was the guy in black and yellow if you saw it.) From my point of view, the event was AWESOME, the best I’ve been to in 12 years of re-enacting

    bfh–I was their sunday,the 1st performance 12pm

    many didn’t realise there was tented village in that area,showing weaponry,lifestyle ect,so going in 1030am,plenty to see time passed quickly.the re-enactment itself was brill,seeing the English side armoury ,weapons close up,it’s hard to understand how they lost

  367. Nana Smith says:

    @Capella

    …had the attacks come from Yes side you bet there would have been arrests.

  368. Grouse Beater says:

    I was at Bannockburn

    John, thank you for all you did an all you are doing.

    You are correct, the power elite’s determination to sabotage the event is reprehensible. It can only add more voices to the Yes vote.

  369. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana Smith your on the ball this morning Nana,good work.

  370. caz-m says:

    Macart
    “S’okay, we go next door to STV and party there”

    That sums up the Scottish spirit in one sentence,
    brilliant. LOL

  371. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @
    MajorBloodnok says:

    Turnips to the rescue.

  372. Lesley-Anne says:

    caz-m says:

    Macart
    “S’okay, we go next door to STV and party there”

    That sums up the Scottish spirit in one sentence,
    brilliant. LOL

    I hope you lot get the location sorted out before 27th July cause if we are able to get up to Glasgow we want to know where to go. I’m damned sure I’m NOT going to go to the BBC *ahem* event if protest is elsewhere. I wouldn’t give BBC the light of day given half a chance! :P

  373. Les Wilson says:

    Macart says:

    I wouldn’t trust any msm about as far as I could chuck a JCB.”

    Now, I do like that one LOL!

    I was really just pointing out that they will do ANTHING to try and thwart what they can, and that STV is only slightly better. Cheers.

  374. Flower of Scotland says:

    @John Lyons

    I was at Bannockburn on Sat! We had a great day and my only moan was the huge queues for food! The battle enactments were really enjoyable appealing to children and older people!

    Visit Scotland warned about traffic and advised public transport! I took their advice and expected busy buses to Stirling for AF day! It just didn’t happen! In fact I never saw any numbers of people in Sterling. It just looked like a normal day. As I’ve posted already Alex Salmond greeted us when we left and that just made my day! Altogether GREAT!

  375. Lesley-Anne says:

    Les Wilson says:

    Macart says:

    I wouldn’t trust any msm about as far as I could chuck a JCB.”

    Now, I do like that one LOL!

    I was really just pointing out that they will do ANTHING to try and thwart what they can, and that STV is only slightly better. Cheers.

    Macart was just showing off you know Les, he is really, really strong and likes to show off from time to time. If he wanted to he could really throw that JCB clear across the river Clyde. ;) He won’t of course because we still need it to contiue with the building of the extension to the “Darkened Room.” :P

  376. Capella says:

    In December 2011 the Dundee teenagers who managed a Facebook page where some comments called on people to join in the riots got 2 and 3 years.
    https://archive.today/TRSa2
    If I remember rightly, the comments went up one evening and the teenagers removed them next morning. They were arrested that same day.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14461393
    There was obviously real time monitoring of social media in 2011 so it shouldn’t be hard to find the culprits in the J K Rowling case?

  377. Dcanmore says:

    Anyone seen The Rev this morning, he’s usually tweeting by now.

  378. Macart says:

    @Lesley-Anne

    This is going to be a party year and that’s the spirit I reckon we should hold any event. More folks are engaged, people are merry, up for it and generally in good humour. Its always been the best way to meet their mince. Laugh in their face and get Yew Choob to make a song of it. :D

    What’s not to like?

  379. Macart says:

    @Lesley-Anne

    If he wanted to he could really throw that JCB clear across the river Clyde.

    Well I don’t like to boast. ;)

  380. Nana Smith says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Cheers Ronnie…a friend who was shopping on Saturday tells me there were some slab activists going about with leaflets.
    She witnessed one old chap tearing into the so called facts and she said quite a lot of folk had gathered around and were agreeing with him.

    The message is out there and the message is YES.

  381. Lesley-Anne says:

    Aye you’re right Macart. It certainly is the year to party and WE are doing just that. I think that explains why everyone supporting YES has a laugh and a giggle all the time with a huge smile on their face, meanwhile all those supporting NO walk about with a face that looks like it’s been slapped with a wet kipper. :P

  382. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana Smith ha ha Aye the Grey haired faction canna be kidded theres a lot of grey matter under they’re thatch,an some o them know how to use it to good effect.

  383. Ken500 says:

    RT has a report of the BBC demo. Thanks folks. Another 2 million there in spirit

  384. Macart says:

    @Lesley-Anne

    Exhibit A: John Reid

    If ever there was a doleful kisser that looked about as happy as a bulldog licking piss of a thistle…

    I mean seriously, could you picture any of the opposition selling their particular message with face paint and a twirling dickie bow? :D

  385. Nana Smith says:

    @Macart

    That comment re J Reid brilliant. Chuckling at the picture you have painted…

  386. Lesley-Anne says:

    Can I suggest that exhibit #2 be logged in as Johann Lamont Macart? :P

  387. Macart says:

    @Nana and Lesley-Anne

    Aye, they don’t really inspire much other than depression or hysterics. :D

  388. Lesley-Anne says:

    Talking of depression and hysterics, thanks for reminding me Macart. I’m away now to contemplate suicide as organised by the Better Thanks campaign. I’ll be back shortly, I understand their suicide lecturer has completed 25 missions. :P

  389. Capella says:

    We’re way O/T now but a gallery of comedy shorts would be a good idea. My personal favourite is Ian Grey asking how we are to fund an oil fund.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC4hwVd47FE

  390. Robert Peffers says:

    Well, as no one has picked up on the open invitation I posted in this, “The difference between professional political media people and amateurs is the professionals are paid to push the views of their paymasters while the amateurs have no paymasters.”

    I suppose I’d better do it myself.

    The paymasters of the BBC Scotland are NOT the UK Government but ARE the Licence Payers, so please stop paying for the UK Government’s Propaganda Machine.</b

  391. biggpolmont says:

    Multiply by a factor of 12 springs to mind! Just spoken to a friend who was at the AFD. He told me it was chaotic because of the crowds! The crowds such as they were were being kettled into walkways. they were not allowed to wander across the grass. When they queried it they were told that it was for safety due to the heavy downpour the grass was very slippery (Apparently you cannot slip on mud ) he reckoned that the visitors were fifty fifty uniformed and civvies. They could not get near some of the exhibitions as the cadets and the old soldiers were there in numbers.They eventually saw the RAF & NAVAL sides but couldnt get near the army when up jumped an old argyll & Sutherland with a southern accent and told this chap he should be ashamed of himself wearing a yes badge at an event that commemorated the greatness of Britain. He was put right that it was an event to show pride in the armed forces not Britain!The Argyll replied that it was all about Britain and what would my friend know about pride? My friends wife in tears jumped in at that point and said that she had plenty of pride for the likes of her nephew who was in hospital in Birmingham almost a year after being wounded in the line of duty and finished off with “right thats it we are away”. The old soldier was taken aback but managed to say good your not welcome here anayway! Quick as a flash she replied she was talking about Scotland going away from the union not her leaving the event!She had been undecided up to that point.
    Score another own goal against the no s

  392. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Virtually no mention of AFD in any newspaper today. They have decided to remove it from the record. It has been removed from BBC Scotland Ceefax though it was sitting above the Bannockburn event in the Ceefax list last night.

    I trust the people of Stirling will want to know what happened to their £500,000.

    I see the pedestrian David Torrance flogging the dead “federal” horse in today’s Herald. The readers of the Herald deserve better than Torrance, Gardham, Settle and McLeod.

  393. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 30 June, 2014 at 10:16 am:

    Aye you’re right Macart. It certainly is the year to party and WE are doing just that. I think that explains why everyone supporting YES has a laugh and a giggle all the time with a huge smile on their face, meanwhile all those supporting NO walk about with a face that looks like it’s been slapped with a wet kipper.

    How about we start a special award list?
    How about a Wee Badge awarded to the best,
    “I’m A Proud Scot, but …, claimant?

  394. Lesley-Anne says:

    I like your idea Robert. I think I can feel a whole list of *ahem* awards coming on here. :P Here’s a few suggestions for starters. ;)

    The Wet Kipper award
    The Can’t be Earsed award
    The I’m a Trougher award
    The Whaurs ma Ermine Cloak award
    The I’m better that all of Yous award
    The Ian “I’ll gie you a doin” Davidson award
    The Sour Plum of the year award
    The I Don’t do apologies award
    The I’ll Lie if I want to award

  395. Jim Thomson says:

    Lesley-Anne, you missed the “Debater of the Year” award :-P

  396. Lesley-Anne says:

    Dammit, I knew I’d forgotten something, thanks for reminding about that one Jim. ;) There again I did say my list was just for starters. :P

  397. tartanpigsy says:

    Hi lesley-Anne,

    I’m thinking you are the same Lesley-Anne who donated to the 10000 \Flags fundraiser?

    I’m heading south later today and was hoping I could drop your flags and some more for the area with you. If you reply here I’ll give further details via email.

    cheers Mark

  398. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 30 June, 2014 at 11:17 am

    “Dammit, I knew I’d forgotten something”

    You also forgot, “I’m just an Ordinary Housewife & Mother”, award.
    :-))

    We could design these wee badges and Photoshop them onto on-line photos & videos. Perhaps an inverted WOS badge with rather droopy wings and a Tabby Cat instead of a Rampant Lion.

  399. tartanpigsy says:

    For anyone else waiting on flags who didn’t collect in person at the BBC yesterday, they are being sent out this week.

    and Ronnie, I hope you’ve got that flagpole sorted on yer shed already, Mine’s providing a nice wee bit of colour on (one of) the main road(s) out of Strathaven. ;)

  400. Lesley-Anne says:

    tartanpigsy says:

    Hi lesley-Anne,

    I’m thinking you are the same Lesley-Anne who donated to the 10000 \Flags fundraiser?

    I’m heading south later today and was hoping I could drop your flags and some more for the area with you. If you reply here I’ll give further details via email.

    cheers Mark

    Hi Mark that’s correct, I am and there is no problem with you dropping of the flags. We’re always up for a wee bit of *ahem* personal service. :P

    I sent you an e-mail back yesterday but no problems you can e-mail me again. ;)

  401. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    tartanpigsy at 11.35

    Is that the road down to Quarter and Hamilton that gives you a stunning view of much of central Scotland. I’ll need to get over to the YES shop they’re opening at 41 Townhead Steet in Hamilton

  402. tartanpigsy says:

    Didn’t get the email Lesley-Anne.

    It’s pigsy68 at hotmail dot com

    Still not sure what time I’ll be passing as I’m waiting on stock deliveries which are late

    It’s not just the flags…..

  403. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I was at the armed forces day I had to end up leaving half way through due to the high number of people there you could barley walk around the feild the 2500 people you suggest was there is a joke. Maybe you should of whent before critising the show.”

    You’d have trouble walking through your living room if there were 30 people in it. What’s your point?

  404. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    tartanpigsy at 11.35

    We contributed from Cowal Yes in Dunoon. How can we make it easy for you to get the flags to us

  405. Lesley-Anne says:

    That’s is weird Mark. I received your e-mail yesterday and just replied to it. Apparently it went somewhere, obviously not to you though. :P

    Don’t worry about the time we’ll be in all day. As I said in the e-mail that you didn’t receive just give us a heads up and we’ll have the kettle on waiting to make a nice wee cuppa for you. ;)

    I can’t remember if you have our phone number or not so I’ll text you the number.

  406. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Tartanpigsy, not as yet, but I have lovely Wings Banner

    planted next to the Shed toot toot toot toot. The Son will

    sort the flag pole for me, and many thanks for the Saltire.

  407. Tamson says:

    Can’t find a link, but if I recall correctly, Armed Forces Day 2014 was originally intended to focus mainly on the Navy. Can anyone confirm this?

    Now, which place in the UK has stronger connections to the Royal Navy? Portsmouth or Stirling? You decide. I feel sorry for the folk of Portsmouth, the event has clearly been hijacked for political ends.

  408. Lesley-Anne says:

    Right that’s the text sent Tp, hope you get it, I don’t use my phone very much if at all so the text could have been sent any where. Damn forgot to say at the end of the text it was me who sent the damned thing. DOH! :P

    Never mind I think you’ll figure it out, I don’t expect you get too many texts with phone numbers in them. ;)

  409. ronnie anderson says:

    Noo am gone affline tae ( decipher & compile a list )of names

    of the people who signed the Wings Banner.

  410. tartanpigsy says:

    @Dave I think it’s in hand, Clydesdale members with family in Dunoon. Otherwise someone will be in touch. Like I said earlier, I’m away next fortnight so Lesley-Annes drop will be my last contribution to getting flags out. Yes Clydesdale taking care of the rest.

    There are already flags with Yes Aberdeen( some on route to Yes Highland) Yes Dunfermline for all fife needs. Yes Edinburgh North and Leith for all Lothians.

    And yesterday at the BBC (LOL) we got Arran, Airdrie, Clydebank, Stirling and a few others sorted out.

    Those of you who contributed will still get your allocation via post. The ones at the area hubs are for further distribution to the local groups.

    We’ll get a FB page up for photos to be posted, should be fun.

    And stuart if you want one sent down to Bath drop me an email and we’ll get it sorted.

  411. Steve says:

    A friend of mine has just posted a pic on Facebook of the Union Flag being burned in front of the statue of the Bruce at Bannockburn. Even having been at Bannockburn Live, my immediate reaction was shock that this happened at the celebration. A few milliseconds later, of course, came the realisation that it’s nonsense and a quick google verified that this was a pic from 2 years ago. But people who have not been to Bannockburn recently may easily think this happened at this weekend’s festival – propaganda for those who want to associate anti-English sentiment with the referendum, I don’t doubt. Watch out – there’s mischief about!

  412. Dick Gaughan says:

    Robert Peffers says
    Well, as no one has picked up on the open invitation I posted in this, “The difference between professional political media people and amateurs is the professionals are paid to push the views of their paymasters while the amateurs have no paymasters.”

    Reminds me of this :
    “Professionals built the Titanic
    Amateurs built the Ark”

  413. Lesley-Anne says:

    Dick Gaughan says:

    Reminds me of this :
    “Professionals built the Titanic
    Amateurs built the Ark”

    Just out of curiosity who built the iceberg? ;) :P

  414. Dick Gaughan says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    Just out of curiosity who built the iceberg?

    Wisnae me. A big boay dun it an ran awa.

  415. Lesley-Anne says:

    Dick Gaughan says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    Just out of curiosity who built the iceberg?

    Wisnae me. A big boay dun it an ran awa.

    Oh that’s O.K. then. I wasnae trying tae imply it wis you who built the iceberg you understand I just thought that it was a question that needs to be asked. ;)

    Wis this *ahem* iceberg building incident reported to the polis by any one I wonder? :P

  416. Bob Sinclair says:

    Following from Duncan Hothersalls accusation that we’re guilty of ‘Hate Crime’ here’s a few more he can use:

    WoS Stickering packaged goods – Crate Crime
    Convincing your prospective new Boy/Girlfriend to vote Yes – Date Crime
    Refusing to use the number between 7 & 9 – Eight Crime
    Putting Wings Adverts on trains – Freight Crime
    Walking into a No Voters Garden – Gate Crime
    Waving a saltire at Prince Willies Missus – Kate Crime
    Turning up after PQ2 – Late Crime
    Supporting Yes with your friends – Mate Crime
    Force feeding meat spread to No Supporters – Pàte Crime
    Demonstrating in modern art gallery – Tate Crime

  417. Bob Sinclair says:

    Was there not a song or story about the Titanic from the point of view?

  418. Tommy Kane says:

    ref caz-m at 09:14

    If you are looking at 27th July you might want to consider this information

    http://www.ryascotland.org.uk/events/flotilla2014/flotilla/programme/Pages/default.aspx

  419. Bob Sinclair says:

    Well, we can’t accuse the BBC of bias after their story about a dug called Rory going ‘look a squirrel’

  420. Lesley-Anne says:

    Bob Sinclair says:

    Well, we can’t accuse the BBC of bias after their story about a dug called Rory going ‘look a squirrel’

    I’m not so sure the Grey squirrels would see that as unbiased though Bob. :P

  421. Dick Gaughan says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    Wis this *ahem* iceberg building incident reported to the polis by any one I wonder?

    Polis? Ur ye mad, wumman? Mair’n yer life’s worth tae go reportin onythin tae ra polis roon here, pal.

  422. Sue Lyons says:

    Again like John Lyons I was at Bannockburn Live as a reenactor doing a talk on medieval food in the medieval village – it was a fantastic show Clanranald did a fantastic job and our own group provided fifty reenactors and living historians and were delighted to do so.
    Queues were an issue it is true but only one person said they were “dreadful” whilst many just shrugged their shoulders and said it was what they expected. Every single person I spoke to over the weekend said they had a great time Although i am aware that it might FEEL like i spoke to all 19900 I actually perhaps didnt.

    The thing is that whilst Armed Forces Day was an overtly political event – Bannockburn wasnt. The reenactments were cheered and booed loudly and raucously and yet when the red arrows went over they were cheered too.

    The media are on a mission to create division and hatred where none exists and these pictures and the carry on over scheduling both events is designed to do exactly that. It is interesting that the division and angst is largely lost on people in the real world. There were all nationalities there this weekend as visitors AND as reenactors and Plenty of people sporting YES badges, Yes T shirts and Yes stickers on the side of a wheelchair. I didnt see one UKOK badge anywhere.

    Telling :)

  423. Sue Lyons says:

    Its not far from the truth Bob lol. Hopefully we have skipped the dysentry

  424. Lesley-Anne says:

    Dick Gaughan says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    Wis this *ahem* iceberg building incident reported to the polis by any one I wonder?

    Polis? Ur ye mad, wumman? Mair’n yer life’s worth tae go reportin onythin tae ra polis roon here, pal.

    Oops sorree. ;)

    Only thought I’d ask you know, being the caring non cynical kind of person that I am. :P

  425. Paula Rose says:

    Are icebergs anything to do with poll-er bares?

  426. johnny come lately says:

    I really would urge yessers not to hold any protests during the games (call me a coward if you wish).
    I can see the headlines already “Games marred by hardline nationalists”, “Scotland’s shame”, “nationalist extremists shame Britain”. “Yes Scotland / SNP attempt to hijack the games”, “nationalists attempt to politicize Commonwealth games”.
    Please keep it for another day, don’t give the MSM and unionists the headlines they so clearly crave.

  427. Lesley-Anne says:

    Paula Rose says:

    Are icebergs anything to do with poll-er bares?

    If they are then they’d have to be pretty cool to be bare earsed about it all. :P

  428. Paula Rose says:

    @ johnny come lately – protest dear? we’re having a party.

  429. Lesley-Anne says:

    Paula Rose says:

    @ johnny come lately – protest dear? we’re having a party.

    Protests? NAH, we don’t do protests we leave them for others ;) to do. As Paula says we’re the people of parties! :P

  430. mr thms says:

    Reporting Scotland, just now, OMITTED to tell their viewers the estimate of how much shale oil was under the Central Belt of Scotland. They only gave the amount of shale gas. This is what they left out

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/shalegas/

    “The range of shale oil in place is estimated to be between 3.2 and 11.2 billion barrels (bbl), with the central estimate for the resource being 6.0 bbl.”

  431. My name is Malin and I was camp coordinator for the 1314 battle & encampment. The queues we experienced on Saturday was largely caused by 2 factors: the media reporting poor tickets sales ment a lot of people turned up to pay at the gate. Most of these then formed a queue to secure tickets for the Sunday instead. Secondly, the organisers had not anticipated everyone turning up first thing in the morning. They believed people would arrive throughout the day.

    The Battle arena: our tribune had room for 3500 people at each show. Our amazing visitors however bunched up and we fitted 4000 in. For 5 out of 6 of our shows. At show 6 (day 2) we had 3500 visitors) Also; people were fantastic about not going into the tribunes more than once, so that those who hadn’t yet seen it could. We also made room for hundreds of people in key places around the camp so they could see the show. Great weekend w Great visitors!

    Malin, Clanranald Trust



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