Conflicting reports
It seems somehow fitting that there was a political battle in Stirling yesterday. The city was host to two sets of military-themed festivities, with the UK government having decided to hold Armed Forces Day there in a move transparently aimed at wrecking the commemorations of the 700th anniversary of the Battle Of Bannockburn.
The anniversary was obviously on an immovable date and location, but the Labour-Tory coalition that runs Stirling Council, and which last year attempted to replace a Saltire which flies over the statues of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce with a Union Jack – a plan it abandoned after it was highlighted by this site – agreed to host the competing festival on the same weekend.
Armed Forces Day had free admission to undermine the relatively pricey Bannockburn event. Labour even went so far as to actively try to put people off attending the latter, with Glasgow MP Ian Davidson suggesting that the commemoration was nothing more than a glorification of “the murder of hundreds of thousands of English people”. (These particular “people” being an invading army, actual English casualties around 10,000.)
The press covered the subsequent downsizing of the historical recreation with glee, with numerous articles reporting low ticket sales and other problems right up to the eve of the show, which appeared about to be a major flop.
But then something odd happened.
All of a sudden, Bannockburn Live was a sellout. It wasn’t thanks to the BBC, which had TV and radio location crews in Stirling reporting on Armed Forces Day every 15 minutes on the BBC News channel, but without mentioning Bannockburn Live at all.
There were occasional passing references to “other events”, but we had the channel on for five hours and the word “Bannockburn” was never used. It was rather like having three broadcast teams covering the Glastonbury Village Church Fayre during the Glastonbury Festival weekend, and vaguely acknowledging that there were competing attractions to the bric-a-brac stall and the vicar’s tombola but never saying what they actually were.
In fairness, the BBC eventually reported from Bannockburn this morning. But it did so in the context of some rather striking media coverage.
Most papers described attendances of “over 10,000” at Bannockburn on Saturday, a figure which ought to be correct as it’s easily verifiable from paid ticket sales. Indeed, there were reports in several papers of long queues and dissatisfied customers being unable to get into the battle recreations, which raised questions about how the event would have coped with the higher capacity originally planned.
Meanwhile, the media uniformly quoted numbers of “more than 35,000” for Armed Forces Day, but those seem rather harder to back up. The BBC website, for example, ran an extensive gallery of pictures, but crowds were conspicuous by their absence.
The pics showed a plentiful supply of current and former members of the armed forces themselves, but the marching ranks appeared to considerably outnumber those watching them, where there were any spectators visible at all. The only shot of a sizeable turnout of members of the public was one depicting what the BBC called “explosive military demonstrations”.
We’re no experts, but it’s hard to reasonably place more than 2000 to 2500 people in that picture. It’s cut off at the left, but as it appears to be people standing in a flat field rather than in any sort of grandstand, it seems unlikely that there would be many more out of shot, as they wouldn’t be able to see anything.
[EDIT 3.26pm: full uncropped pictures of the area here, which to our eyes suggest a total crowd of somewhere in the vicinity of 3000 at the busiest point.]
It’s hard to work out what the criteria are for the media documenting large gatherings of people. Last year’s independence rally on Calton Hill, at which the police gave an estimated 20,000 attendance figure, got less than a minute’s coverage on the BBC, balanced by almost as much airtime given to a deeply suspect “Better Together” leafleting event which involved a total of five No campaigners.
More recently, the state broadcaster drew thousands of complaints for almost completely ignoring an anti-austerity protest in London with 50,000 marchers, having given considerably more coverage to a pro-cuts demo which attracted just 350 people.
We weren’t in Stirling yesterday, so we don’t know how many people turned out for Armed Forces Day, but there seems to be no evidence available anywhere which would lead to any reasonable interpretation that it was even remotely close to 35,000. (The population of the entire city is only 41,000.)
Stills and video footage alike show scattered handfuls of spectators, even at the start and end points where you’d logically expect the biggest concentrations, and with multiple crews in place and dozens of reports throughout the day you’d have thought the BBC would make sure to get some good crowd shots were there any to be had.
Armed Forces Day has been explicitly used as an anti-independence political tool since the beginning, and the Prime Minister continued the process yesterday. But even backed by £400,000 of public money and free to attend, it seems to have been something of a damp squib, while Bannockburn Live – attacked by the Scottish press for months on end – was packed out on both days.
The media seems to be engaged in a frantic attempt to cover those facts up. But it’s hard to get pictures to tell lies.
Scotland 1 Cameron 0
Why do I get the feeling that there is a real deep-seated YES feeling in Scotland.
Rolling thunder?
Strange the BBC haven’t yet worked out lying isn’t working when the real people are doing something different, in reality, from the narrative they present.
Members of my family went to Bannockburn Live and said they noticed lots of people wearing “Yes” badges etc; as far as they could tell, there wasn’t anyone wearing “No” stuff.
Proof, as if any was needed, the role of the BBC in promoting UK govt agenda. I’ll try to find the link but wee Owen Jones of the Guardian did a great job of ripping the BBC a new one when discussing BBC bias on the BBC. O/T but while on holiday I had a lovely cuppa tea and a chat in Dunkeld last Friday at YES cafe held in the British Legion (ah the irony). A brilliant idea. Kudos to Dr Ew and the gang for organising the event.
Maybe the 35000 included all the services personnel taking part. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to msm. Like the wizard of oz. Some egomaniac hiding behind the scenes pulling the strings.
I thought those pictures on BBC site were a bit empty of crowds too. Had me wondering if they just used the population of the areas that passed through as a rough number, as anyone in the area at the time could be said to be attending the event.
The phrase used in SoS is “more than 35000 LINED THE STREETS” and there, I think is the answer – they have estimated the number of residents of the roads the parade went down and who (may or may not have) watched it.
They are trying to give the impression that this was the on-site attendance without actually lying about it. No change there, then.
heedbaw
Including the folks at Bannokburn?
I know plenty of yes people who went to both events mainly because the 2 were in close proximity, if it hadnt been for the Bannockburn commemoration there would have been even less at the armed forces day.
I’am sick as a pig l could not attend Bannockburn, my wife is sick in bed, and on top of that it’s my birthday to day , ps I have been sickend by Stirling labour council, and will never ever forgive them for what they have done, there should be a public inquiry after the yes vot. To see just who sanctioned this timing
of these events. It is bloody scandalous. Name and shame. Any way who in there right mind celebrates the beginning of a war ??
One the took the lives of millions of young men??? I can understand the celebration of winning a battle of an enemy thats attacked you on your land. I just think its all about the great brittish achievements of killing millions???
Posted in the previous topic in error, here it is again. If you want to see propaganda in action, have a look at the links below.
First link from The Herald. the second from Daily Record(also in page 4 of Scotland on Sunday today).
link to heraldscotland.com
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
I was at Bannockburn Live yesterday. I would have estimated 10,000 people in at any one time with more than that coming and going over the day. I suspect the number of purchased tickets would be at least 15,000 but probably closer to 20,000.
Couple of things I would point out.
The re-enactments could only hold 3000 and we couldn’t get into the one at 2pm and the number dissapointed for the 4pm show was larger. The tents and other events were very busy. So from that alone you get at least 5000 people were onsite at these times.
Second thing is there were huge fields of parked cars and the traffic on the way home was fairly recognisable as being in attendance at Bannockburn due to following them out the event and the yes stickers on the cars. If 35,000 people had been in Stirling for AFD how did they manage to get home? There was no visible presence of traffic other than that coming in and out of Bannockburn Live
Last thing – David Torrance was beside us in the queue. My Dad said him to that he recognised his face from the TV and said to him that “are you not one of no voters?” to which he replies (with a straight face) “I am professionally neutral”. How we laughed! Didn’t know David was branching out into comedy!
Disappointed that the Sunday Herald also went with the 35,000 figure.
I used public transport to get to Bannockburn yesterday. I was very anxious about getting there because I thought that the bus would be full for the Free AF day . I think that there were 4 on the bus from St Andrews to Stirling. The town was NOT busy and I couldn’t understand where the crowds were! This was at 1pm!
The buses to Bannockburn Live from Stirling at that time were advising people NOT to go if they didn’t have a ticket because it was sold out!
It wasn’t the best organised event and the rain was atrocious with no effort having been made for shelter in case of bad weather! However it made my day when exiting the ground we were met by the First Minister, Alex Salmond who had hopped over to see us all at BL. He is looking extremely well, much better than on TV! He shook hands and even did Selfies with some folk. All in all a good day!
The Battle re-enactment enclosure held three thousand it was full, each time, 3 times,during the day.
However there was also a fascinating medieval village to look around, the US Clan homecoming visitors with around twenty tents, the main sound stage with all day music, the smaller story telling stage, the children’s area, a craft area, a great farmer’s market, huge food tents, a couple of bars.
One of the most poignant moments for me, was when the Clay County Sherriff’s Dept Pipe Band(from Florida) finished their set with Flower of Scotland, which they sang.,
The leader said, “You will all know this song and are welcome to join in.”
What made it poignant was I just got the feeling that they thought there was this great bold Independence movement going on, and there is, but not quite the way they imagine.
They couldn’t know that the Stirling Council was, in it’s petty, malice ridden way, trying to stop any suggestion of Scotland as a country.
Was at Bannockburn live yesterday (Excellent even through the showers) and chatted to a very relieved Fergus Ewing MSP who stated that the park had a capacity of 10,000 which it had easily achieved by mid-day.
Mr Ewing also suggested reports of 2,000 – 2,500 attending the other event in Stirling.
Great news as he intimated that the armed forces day was a deliberate stitch up by the MOD and Stirling Council, who sprung this manipilation very late in the day in terms of organizing.
All of the residents in Stirling should remember this shower who control your council and never forgive them for such a sour base political stunt.
Anyway REV – please try and source a picture of the English guy wearing the England Top with the massive blue YES badge opposite the ‘3 lions’ he was with YES mates and would make a very excellent picture for a blog piece. (Wife had my camera when I bumped into them).
Somebody will have a pic of it Im sure and could forward to you.
Massive ammount of YES badges at the event; very heartening.
OT
The Sunday Post, this week anyway, seems to have crossed over a Yes position. 4 main articles all pro Yes.
Wonder if they have seen the Sunday Herald’s rising sales?
I am just about to leave for the PQ demo.
Hope to see you there! 🙂
b
Here’s the thing.
They fooled no one.
I thought the ‘old paratrooper braking with protocol’ (spontaneously of course) to warn the PM about the Union breaking up was the most audacious/comically inept piece of set up fluff I have ever seen.
You should really accompany this with a video of the entire the BBC news piece shown after the football last night.
It is jaw droppingly bad !!
Imagine if you will a mash up of one of those trashy sentimental US TV movies you get on daytime Channel 5 and “The Day Today” as written by Torcuil Crichton and Alan Cochrane.
And all voiced over by a plummy matron type….
God knows what unintentional comedy gold they have planned for Rory the Tory’s ‘Standing on a wall miles away from Scotland’ thing in 3 weeks time.
A guy I know passes the AFD site on his way home from work. Each night it was lit up with soldiers setting the event up.
M.O.D. budget to fund this too.
“Maybe the 35000 included all the services personnel taking part.”
I have a feeling it included the residents of every house the parade marched past.
The BBC deliberately manipulated the images it used of that notorious over-hyped London anti-cuts rally to censor out how badly attended it was. Compare the BBC space-filling coverage with this single image –
350 anoraks at pro-cuts rally fail to fill allotted area
Political Scrapbook
14 May 2011
Worst example of bettertogetherBBC black out propaganda, this weekend. We’d have gone if we had known it was so much more than Bannockburn re-enactment. Thats what ukok BBC blackout propaganda is all about sadly. That grinning Pacific Quay clown James Cook was very BBC weird yesterday, trying to NOT even say the word Bannockburn all day yesterday. What a bunch.
Once again the supporters of King Bruce won the day at Bannockburn. . . Can we now call this the second battle of Bannockburn
I posted this on a previous thread = sorry to repeat but i did the math!
Are we still on crowd numbers? I did a quick count of the crowd in photo (enlarged) linked to above john king 7:15 am
Heres one from AFD
link to news.bbcimg.co.uk
The crowd on the left is by far the greatest number of people. I counted 50 in a row. Difficult to asses how many rows but let’s be generous and say 10. That makes 500 people. The right hand crowd is much sparser. Let’s be generous again and say 200. That makes 700 people visible in the only photo of the crowd available. So unless there was 1500 people in the beer tent, the 2,000 figure is quite optimistic.
I attended Bannockburn live and there were members of the armed forces there too. Just saying.on my way now to Pacific Quay to see the BBC!
Forgot to say a really big thanks to the English crew who supported the Bannockburn event and were very humoruous throughout. Particularly liked the bit when a knight was asked about the result and Englands terrible losses on the day.
‘Well at least we came second here (technically), didn’t we? Unlike that other lot !’ 🙂
I think the spoiler succeeded because what was sold out was a considerably scaled-back Bannockburn Live. Threatened with a free event expecting 50,000 attending “in the next field”, the BBL organisers cut back a lot. (Also they had funding cut and the money given to AFD instead.)
I wonder if part of the reason for some failings in organisation at BBL yesterday was that the organisers had been discouraged by all the media bashing going on, and didn’t believe they would achieve the attendance they actually attracted?
If the original event had been allowed to go ahead unhindered (and AFD had been organised in Portsmouth where they would probably have had no trouble getting 50,000 people), and properly promoted and supported by the press, it could have been an event to tell your grandchildren about.
So the Stirling councillors succeeded in spoiling two events. Well done them. Will they have shifted anyone towards a No vote or away from a Yes? I very much doubt it. It was nothing but petty spite.
Craig Murray has posted some pictures from the AFD in Stirling yesterday.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Thanks for this report Stu. Looked all over the web but the MSM are being very coy about the turnout for the armed forces day. The pix I have seen have more ‘royalty’, politicians and service personnel than Joe public. I would imagine most of the crowd were relatives and friends of the marchers.
One thing worth mentioning is the fact that a lot of the Armed Forces displays could be seen from people’s homes without attending the event, or indeed could be seen FROM BANNOCKBURN. So from the POV of living in Stirling, it seems to me as though a lot of people didn’t bother going to the actual event because they could just stick their heads out their windows to see the Red Arrows.
I really wanted to take my wife and son to Bannockburn live but to be honest £60 for the three of us was out our price range, my son who has mobility problems would only have been able to last 2-3 hour then we would have had to leave.
We put him in his wheelchair and pushed him from the town to the HM forces day at the back of the castle , I must admit the crowds were large but this event was not geared towards disabled people . The access was very poor no disabled car park signs until you got to event. They had so many people inside the event you couldn’t get the wheelchair round. So we about turned and went back to the smiths museum and took our boy round the bannockburn exhibit . So he did get to Bannockburn in a roundabout way
#YES
PS not one Saltire on display
@sunday event
Huge queues
saw re-enactment battle/amazing pageantry battle weapons both sides
the medieval village tents are good,weaponry,English &scots,food,falconry
all historic,no hate of English
FOOD IS GREAT,ON MY 2nd steak
The BBC is increasingly resembling the football commentators from Escape to Victory.
@ Gordon Hay 12.48 The phrase used in SoS is “more than 35000 LINED THE STREETS”
Take a look at the photos of the street parades. They are close cropped and that is probably because there weren’t many people on the streets. The entire population of Stirling is 45,000 and it doesn’t look as if many were out on the streets.
I was on my way in the hope of adding another sold ticket, doing my bit for Scotland’s dignity, aware the event was “50% undersold,” but on entering the controlled access roads was turned back – “Fully subscribed,” “Sold Out.”
Being yer normal parnoid Scotsman I thought this to be another British Together scam and, leaping upon my High Horse, (a Clydesdale, of course) dressed in full armour and broadsword hired at great expense from my theatrical costumers, and my mother for sliver wool knitted gloves that look like armour, I argued blind that tickets were free to passing down-and-outs and crows as a way of gaining spectators! So let me pass!
Grossly undersold that morning, yet by the afternoon …
Going back towards Edinburgh was easy – no “vast numbers” to negotiate on their way to the Armed Services blunder.
I wonder how many here are old enough to remember the trouble the BBC used to get into during the Falklands War, when they committed the cardinal sin of actually attempting to present news, instead of just propaganda? Back then, they used to have journalists working for them. Curious, is it not, that nobody in the Tory Party (or Labour, for that matter) seems to have any problem with the way the BBC of today is covering the campaign. Norman Tebbitt must be content at last.
What’s all the stooshie about? The 35000 figure is MoD, probably the least accountable department after the Treasury, so divide by 12 as we had to with the set-up costs.
@ capella
That was my point. I wasn’t seeking to excuse the use of the 35,000 figure, so perhaps I should have written “residents who may have, but probably didn’t, watch”
@ Nuada, the BBC stank back then too with their jingos send off for “the fleet.” Nothings changed though, mind the SUN “Gotcha” and St Tatch hitting her fire all torpedoes for teamGB button. It still creeps me out. Radio 3’s does a lot more ukok real world stuff than any other of their shite channels but they had on an ex fighter pilot Falklands vet lately, explaining how he had strafed lines of Argentine army tents, shooting at the soldiers running from the canon fire but getting hit. Then he said he knew they were all junta conscripts.
See BBC News on yesterdays shenanigans.
link to bbc.co.uk
James Cook’s report does appear to mention Bannockburn though I can’t be sure. In my browser (Chrome) the AFD video covers up the bit of his report that mentions it!
According to wikipedia the population of Stirling is 45.750 and the greater Stirling area has a pop of over 89 thousand.
Oops – video has now moved to top of page and I can now see that he doesn’t manage to get the word “Bannockburn” into his report
“Under the gaze of royalty, the forces of the British state paraded through Stirling while just a few miles away swords clashed as the victory of a Scottish king over the English was re-enacted.”
I don’t think these reports of 1600 people making the thing out to be a flop are really fair. It actually smacks of sour grapes and our own (Yes) side making things out to be worse than they really were.
Using the image in your article, I’ve calculated approximately, 2000 people are there in that particular image – which it has to be said is only one snapshot of the entire day. I took the image, divided it into 30x30px squares. There are around 60 people in the densest parts of a 30px square and plotting the area, there are approx 50 squares populated with people.
To be fair, BBC Scotland did show a bulletin with an aerial view of the same scene and there are a lot more people out of shot to the left. This could easily take the numbers up to around 4-5k. And the actual bulletin gave plenty coverage to the Bannockburn live event.
It should also be noted that this is a single snapshot of the entire day and does not reflect actual attendance. Crowds gathered and fluctuated over the day. There was rain, people sheltering in tents etc. in pubs. When the Red Arrows were doing their display, this was the highlight and the crowds were fairly large.
Bear in mind too, the Bannockburn crowd all paid to be there, when I suspect a fair number of the AFD crowd were paid FOR being there.
I actually feel sorry the Royal Marines on their 350th anniversary, but would place the blame for marring both events firmly at the doors of Stirling District Council. Disgraceful. I appreciate Bannockburn made a good recovery, but some 25,000 people missed out on a great spectacle.
Here are the real numbers.
link to new.livestream.com
Even assuming the 35,000 figure is accurate, it’s only 1/3 of the number that attended Edinburgh’s Armed Forces Day in 2011:
link to gov.uk
It’s also lower than the attendance for Nottigham, Plymouth & Cardiff:
link to gov.uk
link to gov.uk
link to gov.uk
Which actually makes it the second poorest attendance for any “Armed Forces Day” in the United Kingdom; Kent in 2009 only had 30,000:
link to britishlegion.org.uk
(As an aside, the attendance at Cardiff appeared to grow by an astonishing 20,000 just one day later, as the initial report was 50,000: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-nation-celebrates-armed-forces-day–2 )
Live streaming of the protest at BBC HQ Pacific Quay Glasgow has now started online here –
link to new.livestream.com
I watched David Cameron being interviewed, hoe was so anxious
to get his “Better Together” pitch in.
However, he looked flustered, even a little embarrassed.
This event did no way live up to expectations, so he was entitled to be embarrassed.
The whole thing has backfired on Westminster AND the shitty Stirling Council.These folks can do anything with tax payers money and should be berated for it, by the people of Stirling.
Scots are proving that their heritage really does mean something, power to the people!
Whoops. Sorry for duplicating cynicalHighlanders comment.
Enjoy the online quality grassroots news coverage.
Stirling has a population of 45,000, minus 10,000 for the Bannockburn Live event and you have (hilariously) the 35,00 the must have turned out for Armed Forces Day.
Hell’s teeth, there’s quadrillions of them there at Pacific Quay! The speech I saw didn’t show very many, but they just panned across the crowd and for a minute I thought it was old footage of Calton Hill – till I saw the Armadillo in the background.
We left Bannockburn about 5.15pm (with the Red Arrows in mid-display) and took the A84 toward Doune/Callander to go visit a friend. We saw no pedestrians coming from AFD, the car park at the agricultural mart which they used for AFD was pretty empty, and we encountered far more traffic coming out of Blair Drummond Safari Park (quite a few folk went to neither).
We drove home at about 11.30pm past the field where the AFD event was held, and apart from a couple of tent pavilions still standing and the road lined with cones, there was no evidence any big event had happened that day at all – no litter, no dropped union jacks, no bunting, nothing!
They need that wee drone camera the guy had on the September march.
The BBC & the pro-union media no longer control or even write the narrative anymore. Yesterday was surely proof of that.
There has been a massive & obvious shift of power this last 12 months or so & it continues to shift away from the Establishment & its compliant media.
It is the people, the people of Scotland who are taking back their sovereignty & authority by rallying at town hall meetings & public assembly points all over the country in unexpectedly large numbers. Yesterday was a sell out despite the media spending months trying to rubbish it. With hindsight, no more could have probably attended anyway considering the tight space that is the field of the Bannockburn Victory Memorial & visitors centre anyway.
The British Establishment knows this. You know it. I know it. We all know it.
Enjoy these next 12 weeks or so as you watch the British Empire twitch …
Scots, wha hae wi Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome tae yer gory bed,
Or tae victorie.
Visit Scotland have just tweeted in the last few minutes that Bannockburn Live on Sunday (today) is ….
A SELL OUT !
Wham !
That’s another story then if Cameron has subsidised ever person who attended Armed Forces Day by £300 odd. It’s like demos in Iran and North Korea.
If you had a house in Stirling, and it follows that it has windows, therefore you must have looked out at some point – you didn’t pay any money for a ticket to the bannockburn event so you must have been at the AFD event.
…and they accuse dictators of propaganda!
50,000 can vanish in London and 35,000 can appear in Stirling – it depends on what instructions the MSM receive.
There is such disparity between the press story of attendance and the actual numbers who attended AFD that this should be relentlessly exposed
It is another lie and every exposed lies destroys Better Together’s case. This is easier to establish than most.
And I like the idea of asking the folk of Stirling how they enjoyed having their funding used to hugely subsidise an event that very few wanted
This what the London owned Sunday Mail newspaper said about the Bannockburn Live event in their opinion column.
A lot of sabre rattling , a bit of meaningless skirmishing and some middle aged men running about shouting without any purpose.
But why bother with Bannockburn Live, when we’ve had two years of the referendum campaign. The taxpayer would say you must be having a laugh when they’ve been asked to shell out the best part of a million pounds, to recreate a battle that happened 700 years ago, which no one knows where it took place, never mind why.
This is what the supposedly Scottish Sunday mail newspaper thinks of Scottish history.
All the people at PQ must be getting right up the nose of the BBC. They are singing, pipes are playing, everyone enjoying it. It does have purpose, i hope there will be ever growing crowds from now to September.
They will not care too much, but observers and reporters from other countries must be noticing. The BBC are in the spotlight, possibly more than ever before. As we are on the doorstep of BBC Scotland, we can make this bigger and bigger.
O/T
A bit of positive news now, more than 40 branch officers from Unison have backed a YES vote. Unison Scotland deputy convener Stephen Smellie said ” The kind of Labour party we need, is more likely to develop in an independent Scotland, than in the current UK.”
Prof John Robertson speaking outside BBC Pacific Quay right now and I really really hope all the BBC liggers that went after him are listening, deep inside their big glass box o grot.
link to derekbateman.co.uk
@joe kane 2:10pm
Just re-posting your link to the BBC bias livestream:
link to new.livestream.com
Prof Robertson on now – someone really needs to gaffer tape the cameraman to the ground though!
The reporter on SKY said, it was here at Bannockburn Robert the Bruce won the battle in 1314 that cemented “Britain’s independence” eh was it ?
@heedtracker 2:56pm
it would be interesting to see the google analytics for the livestream to see who were all watching it. That should show up the BBC I would think.
Prof Robertson says Steve Bell of progressive/liberal Guardian replied to his complaint with “fuck off and stick your nationalism up your arse” What was the complaint about
link to theguardian.com
Thanks Jim Thomson.
Yes that was an excellent speech by Prof Robertson about his research on BBC news coverage of the referendum. I hope he puts it online.
Trends Map over Scotland right now
aberdeen
bannockburn
bannockburnlive
bbcbias
bbcbias
bbcbias
edfilmfest
edinburgh
glasgow
glastonbury
glastonbury
indyref
indyref
indyref
indyref
paddypower
scotland
scottish
stirling
voteyes
voteyes
voteyes
Nappies for BT
@ Jim Thomson, don’t know about google analytics but I’m watching it in the bath here in suburban Aberdeen:D
Good picture and sound!
@heedtracker 3:28 pm
jeez – there’s an image I’m going to have trouble purging from my feeble brain 😛
Rest easy though, GA doesn’t quite get down to bath level (thank goodness) but it should identify ISPs and the BBC are one of them as far as the IP address allocations are concerned.
So, to sum up, we have the British State supported by the State Broadcaster and other media outlets glorifying past military endeavours of the British State but denigrating the celebration of an event which preceded the creation of said state by some 400 years. The state attempts to undermine the clebration of the 700 year old event by deliberately scheduling its celebration for the same weekend in more or less the same place. One event (Bannockburn) is rather well attended, but the state sponsored event (Armed Forces Day) appears to be rather poorly attended. (And in the weeks preceding the events, we are repeatedly told that the Bannockburn event would be a flop with poor ticket sales). Then, the next day, the media turn the facts on their head and report that the state event was well attended and that the Bannockburn event was badly attended.
Truth is the fist casualty of war, they say. How apt. It pains me to say it, but we now live in a country where total cynicism is the order of the day, the end justifies the means and integrity has no place amongst those seeking to preserve the union. Until recently, if asked to guess which country might have been behaving this way I would have guessed maybe Putin’s Russia, China, or perhaps some dodgy third world dictatorship. I naively believed that such a thing could never happen in my country.
I don’t want to live in a country where government, media and establishment operate like that. Nor, I am sure, do a majority of the people of Scotland. Let’s hope they realise what is happening before it is too late.
@ Jim Thomson, just me, my battleships, rubber ducks and ipad. It’s pretty shocking to think that we’re meant to be in that neutral unbiased reportage run to the referendum period. What a BBC in Scotland farce that’s turned out to be. BBC is even more anti independence biased if anything and especially after the Bannockburn news blackout yesterday. That was just grotesque and it’s going to get a whole worse. Then they’ll scarper.
Many more people turned out to line the streets of Stirling for the Braveheart premiere in 1995 than turned out yesterday for AFD:
link to itnsource.com
Were there more people at Pacific Quay today than at AFD in Stirling yesterday?
Were there any police figures for the crowd numbers? They usually like to have stats to demonstrate how efficient they are at crowd control.
heedtracker
The BBC will not scarper, they will be evicted.
@JWil
Were there any police figures for the crowd numbers? They usually like to have stats to demonstrate how efficient they are at crowd control.
There was no need for Police control at PQ today only peaceful YES supporters
If you use the BBC way to calculate numbers it must have been at least 40,000 at PQ
Just saw Cactus and X Sticks at Pacific Quay haha
Just watching live stream from Pacific Quay and they are trying to get into Pacific Quay to get a word from BBC unfortunately they cannae get in! 😛
Just seen X-Sticks and the crew with the very well signed Wings banner. 😛
@ Bugger (the Panda), with their £500 million glas box garbage PFI bill too. The live broadcaster camera work’s coming from a future Scottish Broadcasting Corp camera girl down there, scoping rather large WoS banner! Go Kaitlin! is it?
Jackie Bird your botoxed goose is cooked.
Looked like the crowds were nearly one deep in places…
Wonder what the figures are for a normal Saturday in Stirling when nothing is on. Very similar I imagine.
Oh, and it wasn’t the Council, just one Councillor, the Provost that made the arrangement, then told his pals in the Tory/Labour admin later, who passed it. Independent audit on decision making process going on now. Doubt if it will report any time soon.
Mind ye, he did get his photie plastered all over the media with Royals and their ilk. Worth £500,000 of council taxpayers money any day.
heedtracker
They are only squatting in that glass Lubyanka.
We will not want it because it is probably on some sell and rent back contract to an offshore company owned by BBC World?
Bye Kaitlin! Amazing job there. See you next time!
Well done Caitlin and Derek from Independence Live. Some real journalism, the BBC should be embarrassed.
Thepnr says:
Well done Caitlin and Derek from Independence Live. Some real journalism, the BBC should be embarrassed.
Well they would be embarrassed Thepnr but just as Labour in Scotland do NOT know how to apologise the UKIP Channel, sorry BBC do NOT know how to feel embarrassed! 😛
Sunday Post article about the NHS in Scotland:
link to sundaypost.com
Makes me wonder if the Sunday Post has seen soaring sales over at the Sunday Herald and is looking for something similar.
Remember the bottom line though – Never trust a DC Thomson publication!
Just in from the BBC protest at PQ. I think there was at least 3,000 people there I am soon going to post some photos on Facebook.
It is blindingly obvious that these events need a battle bus. As the people who were speaking and playing and singing at the PQ event were not visible to the crowd as they were at ground level with a small PA unit.
We need an open topped bus, or a truck even to put on these protests. We should be doing one every week now in the run in to the indyref.
Surely to God there is someone in all of the Yes organisations or Yes itself that can see this. The BBC are our most dangerous enemy, and it is they who will scupper the referendum if it is scuppered. I am certain a battle bus could be crowd funded. Come on folks time is getting very short, we need to get this on.
Thanks for posting the Pacific Quay independence live stream, it was brilliant to watch.
lol
O/T
link to facebook.com!/nationalcollective/photos/a.233148850093742.56160.199573770117917/661302557278367/?type=1&theater
The photographs used by Craig Murray were taken from Stirling Castle, as identified by the guy who took them.
[…] Figures. […]
I’m guessing here S.C. but to get those photos they must have been taken from INSIDE the palace of Horrors by one of the many under cover YES agents. 😛
BBC reporting ‘hundreds’ outside pacific quay.
link to bbc.co.uk
Back on the 9th of September last year, BBC news had a 2-minute piece on the Battle of Flodden, Scotland’s greatest and most ruinous defeat. For the BBC to studiously avoid any mention of Scotland’s greatest victory when they had reporters, cameras and equipment right in the area – indeed, in front of the very statue of Robert the Bruce erected to commemorate the 650th anniversary of the battle – is the clumsiest and most brazen bias I’ve seen from the BBC in quite some time.
500th anniversary of Scotland’s greatest defeat by the English: worthy of a 2 minute news item. 700th anniversary of Scotland’s greatest victory over the English: no mention whatsoever.
Bias? What bias?
I don’t quite know how to tell you all this but none of you can count! I have it from an official source that there was a wee insignificant protest somewhere in Glasgow today that attracted only a few individuals. 😛
link to tinyurl.com
Yesterday they had thousands at Stirling’s AFD and today they have hundreds at the anti bias protest. Now call me cynical if you like…You’re cynical! but somehow I think the *ahem* official head counter from the BBC at today’s event cannae count! 😛
Just back from Bannockburn myself – totally packed out. Huge queues to get into the battle re-enactment. Great weather, great music, great food and drink and loads of YES stickers all around…
The only NO I saw was the two poor young lads handing out the “proud to be Scottish and delighted to be united” Blurggh stickers at the car-park entrance…
No takers I saw…
If missed the live stream of the BBC Bias protest, hope you like these 🙂
link to flickr.com
O/T Just home from demo at PQ. A good turnout, I estimated around 2,000. Spoke to quite a few Wingers including a number of lurkers ( or lurchers as Ronnie Anderson calls them ). Main speaker Prof John Robertson did sterling work despite a poor public address system and detailed the biased BBC methods of incessant propaganda.
Whether this will make a difference to the debate remains to be seen but the BBC know that their every move is being scrutinised.
Full marks to Ronnie and Gerry and the other Wingers who manned the Wings table.
@Lesley-Anne ahh, so young and yet sooo cynical. Y’see m’dear what was ACTUALLY happening was a wee protest of a few hundred protesters was stopping 1500+ flag clad BBC employees from accessing the building.
Easy to miscount.
You’ll learn 😉
craig murray has some very accurate photos of the AFD crowd
1600 looks like the upper limit
link to craigmurray.org.uk
@HenBroon 4:25
do you mean like these:
link to usedcoachsales.co.uk
or
link to usedcoachsales.co.uk
or
link to usedcoachsales.co.uk
or
link to usedcoachsales.co.uk
a few more on the website.
Running costs and garaging might be an issue, as would fitting one out with a suitable generator and sound system.
I was at the PQ and in all honesty, while it was a good turnout, I reckoned it was about 800. Never 3000 I’m afraid.
Jim Thomson says:
@Lesley-Anne ahh, so young and yet sooo cynical. Y’see m’dear what was ACTUALLY happening was a wee protest of a few hundred protesters was stopping 1500+ flag clad BBC employees from accessing the building.
Easy to miscount.
You’ll learn 😉
We’ll have LESS of the so young if you don’t mind! 😛
Oh that was what was wrong with the numbers I’ve heard, they were the numbers of the BBC employees with the flags. Silly me I really really should have known shouldn’t I? Still there’s always next time. 😉
OT On Bella there is a shocking article ….
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
We are all being associated with Nazis again!
An academic claims … “nationalism will always create outsiders and develop into xenophobia” … incomprehensible ignorance from someone who claims to be educated!
@jammach
excellent photos tx
That’s disgusting galamcennalath I feel a letter of protest might be in order, not that the Uni would do anything about it like 🙁
This is Ot but does anyone know whether a video recording is available of the Radical indy meeting down in London the other night(26th?) in committee room 14 organised by redpepper mag?
Great turnout at the BBC today. See they have reported it as “hundreds” and “several hundred” but it was into a couple of thousand where I was standing. Well done to the organisers and if nothing changes can we do it again, and again each month up to September?
Sorry if this has already been covered, the Courier newspaper says 35.000 people attended AFD in Stirling yet over on Craig Murray’s blog he proves it was around the 2000 mark, these lies make Danny Alexander’s start up costs falsified by x 12 look positively logical.
link to thecourier.co.uk
link to craigmurray.org.uk
The estimates on the livestream were that there were 2000 – 2500 there (ie more than at AFD) and about 550 watching the livestream, some from abroad.
The point of the tally at AFD is that the councillors who gave evidence to the Economy, Energy and Tourism committee of the Scottish Parliament used an expected turnout of 50000 as the justification for scheduling this event on that weekend and the cost of £550,000. It was billed as a great commercial opportunity for Stirling businesses. The committee challenged them on that suggesting that two weekends might have been better.
link to youtube.com at 2:31:25
The councillors will be recalled to the committee at some point for the post mortem.
Jammach says:
The best of these should be put on facebook with the BBC one beside them, then the truth will out!
How many Africans do the BBC think the banks they work for needlessly slaughtered today, whilst gleefully ignoring their own much larger debts and bonuses; 100? 600? Or a multiple of those? Cannot wait for that report.
I watched the livestream from PQ, it was fantastic, some of the best ‘telly’ I’ve seen in ages.
Well done to everyone involved.
Sorry for going O/T here but I was wondering if Stu knew anything about this. These are a few tweets I’ve just read over on Twitter from Max Keiser.
Unfortunately, due to media censorship here in the UK, we can’t talk about Scottish independence on TV until after the September vote.
@maxkeiser You can Max. Only BBC has charter agreement and guidelines with @ElectoralCommUK re reporting on #indyref. They ignore anyway.
@AKMacG @ElectoralCommUK No we can’t. Regulators have insisted that we not mention Scotland’s independence vote on TV.
I’m just back from Pacific Quay. Really great day out. I’d have put the crowd at well over 1000, really great to catch up with some well known faces and meet some new ones.
It was really good to meet Mark Coburn #indycyclist. Mark has a new project kicking off soon, 500 miles round Scotland in support of local Yes Campaigners. He was telling me that, having read the Maryhill Foodbank article, any surplus raised will be donated to Maryhill Foodbank. I’m sure Mark will be along soon to tell us more. A really lovely guy, and a cause i’m sure we can all get behind.
Just put a link to my photos on O/T but here they are again:
link to dropbox.com
I was at PQ my estimate would be about 1,000 probably more.
A good natured crowd. there were two police vans in attendance at the start but they buggered off leaving two cars and a couple of PCs. One of the PCs even posed with the pandas. aided and abetted by a sinister character with a “Wings” banner. Hi Ronnie! 🙂
Hi to all the lurkers that came to say hello and to the Wings regulars that I met.
The BBC had it’s balls cut off way back at the Hutton Inquiry. Since then it’s been slavishly establishment doing precisely what it’s political masters want. Any attempts to deviate from the establishment line are met with not very subtle hints about the license fee settlement conveyed to the BBC Board and other jobsworths/political placemen in it’s employ. Now Westminster have an even bigger stick to threaten them with in the shape of exactly what went on when Jimmy Saville and more than a few others were in the BBC’s employ.
Make no mistake, there should have been a full public inquiry into that grotesque scandal. The only reason the BBC have escaped that full public inquiry and even greater scrutiny thus far is that the BBC have pleased the Westminster establishment in their willingness to bend the truth and even lie to keep their political masters happy.
My guess for numbers at BBC Pravda today would be about 1500.
Note to self do not take psychotic black collie duto crowded events.
Greatly amused by the Wings banner at the. Gates of Mount Doom
Tomorrow’s headlines ‘ordinary mum distraught as planned visit to Glasgow ,Science Centre ruined by Nazi yes supporters taking all spaces in car park. You heard it here first
O/T: (ish) I’ve put the 3 parts of Chas Macdonald’s recording of The Bruce 700 last Thursday night in Stirling on the blog.
The fantastic final anthem O Thèid Mi Fhèin le Mo Dheòin – I will Go by My Will should be the Yes Scotland anthem.
link to logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk
Dug
I hate this old phone
Derick Tulloch says:
My guess for numbers at BBC Pravda today would be about 1500
So, almost as many turn up at an BBC-bias demonstration as go to the Force’s day in Stirling. 🙂
Les Wilson – what an excellent idea. I’m just in the door having a large celebratory Bombay Sapphire & tonic. Will get Pixelmator out in a mo 😉
Gavin Barrie
Great work with the photies Gavin. You have my nomination for official WOS photographer.
Who was the lassie that did Freedom Come All Ye?
Brave, she was.
A bit off topic, but wasn’t it interesting how the BBC and most of the papers were quite underwhelming about Scotland’s rugby victory in Argentina, but seemed almost gleeful to report the loss in South Africa.
I suppose I am a bit paranoiac.
Mind you being paranoiac doesn’t mean people aren’t out to get you
@Les Wilson – you mean something like this? Oh I hope this works. I just tweeted it case it doesn’t.
pic.twitter.com/pOs3NPO2ZO
Great pics of the BBC event, thanks for sharing. It’s funny there are pics of Bannockburn all over my FB page from folks I know who went, but nobody seems to have gone to AFD?
O/T But this is in the Scotsman today: link to archive.today
Following the ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ documentary (which was excellent) the follow up looks like it is aimed at directly attacking The FM
‘A HARD-hitting new documentary investigating Donald Trump’s contentious golf resort in Aberdeenshire is set to put the First Minister in an uncomfortable spotlight when it is released in cinemas two weeks before the independence referendum.’
Couple of pics from Pacific Quay, if anyone is interested
link to flickr.com
@Jim Marshall – thank you, that was just with my iPhone. You should see what I can do with a proper camera *grin*. I think I might have a great summer taking pics up to the referendum …
Great to see Tian Tian and Yang Guang there from Edinburgh zoo. Fantastic proof that our independence fight is ALL encompassing. 😛
great day – not good at estimating numbers but maybe 1,000 plus.
Met some lovely folk and some beautiful quadrupeds.
Ronnie , you were looking grand!
@ Cindie, You’ve been Trumped is a documentary funded by the BBC because its attacking Scottish independence. Trump at Balmedie is nothing compared to the current massive loss of Aberdeen’s green belt countryside, vast noddy box housing estates, new WPR by-pass etc, so how come there’s no BBC attack doc on the tiny number of very rich developers like Stewart Milne, now making a fortune ruining our country side or even Aberdeen City Council for giving anyone that wants to build anything the go ahead?
Maybe its because Trump and AlicSamin are BBC funding/box office draws.
jim Thomson. good find, do you see they will hire an open topper for £2000 a month? They can also arrange for having it wrapped in your graphics of choice.
link to usedcoachsales.co.uk
Two months to go £4000
Wrapping another £2000. (guess)
I read of a haulage contractor who has his fleet liveried for yes.
Surely we could find a friendly contractor who would keep this for us for two months.
18th July to 18th September, every week out side PQ giving it laldy.
This needs doing.
Surely we can crowd fund that after what we have crowd funded now?
To those suggesting the crowd was 800+ your agenda is clear. link to specsavers.co.uk
I stood on the raised area in front of PQ and counted one section via a framing lens. The section was 100. I then estimated the number of sections, there were at least 30 such section of the crowd. There was movement and areas not counted as they were to sparse. 3000 is a very conservative estimate. That was around 1500 hrs. And there were people still arriving.
You’ve been trumped just tells the same lies about the FM overturning Aberdeenshire council’s decision to block the Trump development.
Which is quite odd as Aberdeenshire council voted in favour of the development. A fact that is beyond any dispute yet is ignored on a daily basis by britnazis attacking the FM and the Yes campaign.
‘You’ve Been Trumped’ documentary
Yes, I can see the entire future of a country being decided by a documentary about a man everybody thinks is a tit (Trump) concerning disputes over planning for a golf course.
Folk will be like ‘Well, what do you think? X men 10 or that Trump documentary? X-men it is then…’
It’s like India’s independence. They almost gave that up and re-joined the British empire when it was discovered that a member of Ghandi’s group had approved some guy building a well, then fallen out with him over a windmill nearby as it blocked the view from said well.
Looking into it, such planning controversies have decided the outcome of 97% of independence movements historically.
The first film struggled to get backers initially, but the sequel looks like it will be very well funded and promoted. I know there has been some talk about the MSM trying to smear the FM in the weeks leading up to the vote, I wonder if this is the story that’s been hinted at?
@Jammach: great pics! Well done you for it is not easy in a crowd 🙂
On the topic of “You’ve Been Trumped” I’m pretty certain it’s simply another smoke & mirrors affair trying to divert FM energy and resources from the main event.
There will be lots of such distracting side-shows before the vote. Best to ignore and move on with the real work of getting the Yes message across. Even if it is defamatory, wait until after the vote then take ’em to the cleaners.
Lesley Anne @ 5.31
Keiser wouldn’t normally hold back from saying almost anything, never mind mentioning the Scottish Independence referendum. I for one don’t understand what those tweets are really about.
He’s used his show before to call for public execution of banksters. (rightfully, in my view).
Well it seems the BBC are at it again – reporting that the “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters” at Pacific Quay today. I was there, staff inside the building were peering down at us from the top floor – they could have easily clocked up the numbers themselves and rubbished this absurd figure.
Comparing the crowd today with the numbers at the battle reenactment at Bannockburn yesterday, which held a capacity of 3,000 according to the steward I spoke to, there were around half as many at the protest today at its peak I would say.
link to bbc.co.uk
A wee message from my pal…..
Chani-mal Bennie
I played at Arm Forces day because i am in the Argyle Sutherland Highlanders pipe band and we were Leading the Argyles veterans .90% of the band are yes voters. 80% of the veterans i was talking to are yes voters. The 20% no voters were the officers David Cameron and Ed Miliband were there.When their names were announced The crowed went silent then grumbled. I was talking to most of the crowd that was there they were not fooled by David Cameron having Arm Forces day on the same day as Robert the Bruce’s 1314 remembrance day , They were their because they had to be. The grass roots yes campaign is winning and the more David Cameron tries to stamp it out the more people are becoming aware of his tactics. Hail Alba
this message was doing the rounds on facebook yesterday
I’ve heard him going on about bankers ticktock, partularly American ones, but he does seem to have something like a bee in his bonnet about being, effectively banned, from discussing Scottish referendum by the T.V. regulators, think that’s OFCOM isn’t it? 😉
I’m thinking it’s time for Stu be *ahem* invited onto the Keiser Report or for Stu do a wee *cough* interview with Max regarding what overseas television channels think about the Scottish independence and its coverage by the British media. 😛
Wow thanks for sharing those photos, we were right at the front at the main door so it was difficult to see how big the crowd became, it’s huge!!! What a wonderful day it was
Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:
Hi Gavin,
the second photo is the better one for showing the extent of the crowd. However, what I was meaning was to show the crowd WE know was there, alongside the one the BBC show was there with their selected angle shot.
Then a direct comparison can be made, along with a comment asking does this look like a few hundred to You? or can the BBC just want to count?
Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:
should read near the end “or does the BBC just not want to count?”
TD @ 3.38PM
Hear hear TD
I agree with every word!
Lesley, that’s a brilliant idea! I’ve no idea whether or not Stu or Max Keiser would be interested or available at the same time but wow that would be one for the books.
Keiser and Stacy Herbert have talked about Scottish independence before on their show, so I still don’t get why he’d submit to some bs from Ofcom or whatever. It is RT after all, not some UK MSM outfit.
The Rev and Keiser discussing Scottish Independence (amongst other things) would really be something.
Aye I remember them talking about our independence and how they were both *ahem* descended from good old Scottish stock. 🙂
I have a funny feeling that this ban that Max is talking about now may be the result of that show or something similar. Westminster are doing their utmost to prevent Scottish independence being discussed any where, any time, by any one, do you know why Mr. A.A. Darling? 😛
The best bit though is that the harder they try, and utterly fail, to block any discussion about independence we still hold the meetings, pass on the word and turn NOES and D.K.’s to YES. 🙂
WE are winning, we know it, they know it and there’s not a damned thing they can do about and they know it. 😉
BBC Rep Scot evening news just gave all of 20 seconds to PQ protest, informing us that “hundreds of people” turned up.
@ Cindie, that Scotsman report says BBC funding Youve been Trumped 2, but the doc maker is no different from say George Galloway, just one more huckster trying to use Scotland’s move to democracy to make a fast buck.
The BBC will give it the full bettertogetherBBC monty for weeks to try and suck away some attention, undermine and attack Holyrood as usual, look silly little Scotland, you cant even protect the Scottish environment from an evil American baddie, so how can you too small, poor and stupid people vote yes and we hate AlicSamin don’t we…
I’ll betv the whole 20 seconds worth of the report was done through extremely tight gritted teeth! 😛
Hen Broon – no agenda honestly, I called it as I saw it. I arrived about 1.45, stayed till about 3.00. The main throng at the front was well packed but that was where the vast bulk were, it was quite roomy back from that. If 1700, as I believe, pledged to be there then 3000 is a touch fanciful. I heard a group of women wondering where everybody was although it did fill up a bit after that. I’ve looked at the pics and I see nothing there to change my mind, just being honest. 800, maybe 900 is still a very decent turn out.
The Trump issue is more complicated than it appears from comments above. I saw the original film and recommend it as very fair. What has happened is that the BBC are probably now exploiting it to attack the FM. They provide a handy timeline which leaves out some crucial items.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
The Trump development was first promoted when Jack McConnell was FM, as it points out. The planning committee of Aberdeenshire Council rejected the development under the chairmanship of Martin Ford. The full Council then declared that the decision was void because the Trump organisation had not received the letter informing them of the decision. Aberdeenhshire Council, then Liberal dominated, referred it to the SG inquiry, meanwhile smearing the new FM, Alex Salmond (who should have stayed well clear). The also sacked Martin Ford as Chair of the planning committee. He then resigned as a Liberal and became a Green.
See Tripping up Trump for more detail if interested.
link to trippinguptrump.co.uk
What a couple of great days in inspiring company at Bannockburn yesterday and at PQ this afternoon. Today’s demo was a great collection of all ages, creeds and political persuasions (except unionists), very well behaved and extremely well-behaved although there has been plenty of reason for anger. When we arrived at 2 there were a couple of police in high-vis who sauntered off after about 20 minutes, then later two others in ordinary gear turned up and the wee female polis had some banter with Ronnie at the Wings banner. Great to see the two pandas holding the banner but I could see no sign of even one Tory MP anywhere!
However, it seemed to be as water of a duck’s back to the UKBC, the pressure needs to be maintained (fortnighly protests?) and STV needs to be shamed as well. Surely they are similarly guilty of not reporting the BBC’s woes or as John Robertson said today they all close ranks.
stuart at 1:58 pm
Are you really a YES supporter!?
Go here link to craigmurray.org.uk for a definitive version of AFD attendance. You will find that The RED ARROW flypast had the lowest number of viewers of the day. Everyone had gone home.
And this is what an actual 35,000 crowd looks like. pic.twitter.com/7MS7k0MTmI
Yeah, I reckon there were 1000 at PQ today. I was there – the ugly guy in the green t-shirt underneath the ‘yes Arran Island’ banner. But – and the reason I’m posting – did anyone notice the photos of the athletes that were pasted up in the windows of the ground floor of PQ? Even though they could find a photo of an Australian athlete from the Delhi games (proving they had access to Commonwealth Games pix), they still had no choice but to show Victoria Pendleton and Mohammed Farah in full (London 2012) butcher’s apron livery…
For those who may doubt numbers at PQ, NNS have a good wee video that pans the crowd, 2000 at least they say.
bannockburn Sunday summary
1.sold out
2.more about culture,history,both sides of battle
3.saw weaponry,food,clothing at that time period close up
4.local produce food of Scotland was excellent,had to queue,but worth it
5.many info tents,books,clans,music
only criticism,large queues for battle reenactment,maybe make more stands around battle,5,000,instead of 3,000
many didn’t know you could go in earlier and see the camps,both sides,weaponry,life style of that time.
8/10
Just back from the Pacific Quay demo.
I counted about 1900 max, a great turnout and a good time had by all.
Great to hear Prof Robertson, he mentioned that the Herald wouldn’t print all of his last report, I wonder if it is available on-line anywhere?
Attended the PQ with retired policeman who spent thirty years on the Force. His estimate of the crowd was three thousand possibly more.
Watched the Live Stream from Pacific Quay. Made me proud to be Scottish. Vote Yes
@ Capella, link to trippinguptrump.co.uk this is the people that Trump tried to buy out but Baxter’s got no interest in who knows how many people that lost their homes for Aberdeen’s new by-pass, although they did get a full market rate.
Baxter’s just one more grubby ukok shyster but let him show it with his own description of compulsory purchase orders, none of which were ever used on Mennie residents.
“MEET THE RESIDENTS
Donald Trump has asked the council to use their power to forcibly clear people from their homes, all in the name of a private golf course. Below are just a few of the locals that are threatened.”
Capella, Janice Forsyth interviewed the film maker of ‘ you’ve been trumped’ just this week. I listened to it on I player. He does explain some of the problems the locals have had re water etc, then basically , it’s Alex Salmonds fault as it’s his constituency.
Personally I’m not sure what the difference is between Donald Trump and the faceless people behind PFI contracts,the scourge of our Country but anyway, I notice a final comment he makes in a quickly googled article by Mr Baxter is, yup you’ve guessed it , the Referendum.
The First Minister should have been leading the charge AGAINST Trump and his awful, awful “development.” His lies from the outset were obvious and destroying an SSSI to build that damned golf course should have been an open and shut case for any sensible government. Let’s not make the mistake of thinking that supportinv independence means letting Salmond away with some of his worse behaviour. It only makes us look like the militia of Samondistas we’re often portrayed as. Lesser of several evils he may be, but Salmond should still be absolutely open to scrutiny on decisions like the Balmedie one.
link to aljazeera.com
You asked where in Stirling on twitter 56.121863, -3.955341 google maps coords 🙂
I have a pic badly outlined in pain but no idea how to post it here 🙂
@Gordon E 7:53
It was a report done for NewsnetScotland
link to newsnetscotland.com
@ Kenny, your deeply wrong about the SSSI that Trump is supposed to have destroyed. For one thing his course goes into the SSSI by a few metres and same SSSI has Newburgh golf club built completely on it to the north, aswell as sown of Newburgh itself. If you want to swallow Baxter/BBC lies hook line and sinker fine but look at a map of the SSSI and Trump golf first.
According to STV “The Ministry of Defence put the attendance at between 35,000 and *50,000* people.” But to be fair if there is a fly-past and you look up, the Brit Nats could say you have ‘attended’…
aljazeera report
never thought I’d say,puts bbc to shame
thx for the link Nana Smith
I’m always amused by people that seem to happily allow nuclear power plants and so on exist but get all worked up about a golf course which must be about the most eco friendly development I can think of.
Of course if alicsammin can somehow be attacked on it anything goes
@ Molly, Heedtracker
Point taken about Baxter’s comments on the FM and referendum (which I haven’t heard but accept what you say). I do think he is also being used by the Unionist parties and their media allies to smear Alex Salmond. I do think he should have stayed well clear of this mess but, as it is his constituency, perhaps that was impossible. It is a sad tale and I believe the Liberal Democrat administration were responsible.
The Trump Development had major support in the area. It was a handful of Greens and who caused all the problems. They voted against the Aberdeen by-pass road and expanding the Airport etc for ten years. Labour/Unionist in the City voted against a By-Pass road for thirty years. They refused a £80million gift from Ian Wood to predestrianise the City centre. An alternative scheme will be thirty times more expensive (thirty years of lease back) and road closure will cause further traffic chaos. Last time the Labour/Unionists nearly bankrupted the City. Deja Vu
Aberdeen/shire is a growth area, because of increased (Oil) jobs, one of the few in Scotland. The congested roads causes misery for residents for years. The Editor of the local journal is married to a Trump employee. i.e. The campaign against the FM.
I see the BBC is claiming that there were only 350 protesters outside Pacific Quay today. funny how they get that figure, about a seventh of what people are reporting, whereas they have multiplied the numbers at Armed Forces Day by a factor of somewhere around ten.
the BBC is not an impartial broadcaster – they are part of the problem. Disgraceful that we are expected to pay for their misinformation.
Way o/t time, very sorry but something else was happening today. See the details at link to imgur.com
If anyone wants any of the pictures removed or faces obscured please let me know. I will also date order the pictures and caption them later.
Whoops, try this link to imgur.com to start in the correct album.
I think they can try and smear Alex Salmond all they like but one thing is for sure, Alex will act and make decisions that he feels will benefit the people of Scotland.
Everyone can mistakes or errors of judgement but one thing is sure there will be no brown envelopes getting slid under the FM’s desk unlike that palace of corruption next to the Thames.
Trump did not destroy an SSI. The SSI was for rare plants. Adder’s Tongue? No one can find it.
The only reference to ‘shifting sands’ was a 1984 unsigned Aberdeenshire letter. The anti Trump campaigners used insider council information (illegally) to campaign against the Golf Development. One was trying to get an SSI placed on the sands by writing to the British Geographical Society in London. It takes two geologists and there was not time.
The local Fornartine Committee approved the Development, the chairman of the infrastructure committee voted against. The full council voted in favour. There was such an outcry, the Scottish Gov recalled the application The Inquiry cost £2Million.
The local Formartine Committee. The estate was a private shooting estate
The decision made by Alex and the Scottish Gov was supported in the area. It’s his constituency.
Golfing Holidays have increased 40% in Scotland. There is a shortage of hotels in the NE. Hotel occupancy in the NE is high.
All I knew about the situation was from the You’ve Been Trumped Film. It’s good to have other points of view from people here. I would like some more information about it, because if it is going to spun against Alex Salmond it would be good to have some rebuttal arguments.
I have a lot of respect for Alex Salmond and this won’t change my vote, but I would like some ammunition should the discussion arise. There are so many useful links that I have been able to share on other subjects, but there seems to be a lot of misinformation about this.
You’ve Been Trumped’ film is one of the most biased films ever made.
The Trump Development was supported 9 to 1. The MSM coverage (Scotsman led) was the most biased ever made. There was an outcry, including in the local Press when the Development was voted against. The ‘Neeps’ reference ie the Councillors who voted against. There was an absolute outcry. Some of the locals who supported the Trump Development were interviewed by the BBC, an hour’s coverage. This was never used.
Union Jack McConnell, as First Minister, brought Trump to Scotland, inviting him to buy a chunk of it for another boring golf course we do not need. But he did so because Aberdeenshire was screaming out for jobs.
When Salmon got elected, in a coalition, he found himself between a rock and a hard place.
He did what all politicians are charged with doing, supported inward investment in his constituency. Following parliamentary rules, he kept well back from the entire process of planning application and approval. That is the council’s role, as is infringement of rights from local residents.
The implication is, somehow, even after parliamentary enquiries and committee found him free of association or manipulation, Salmond is best pals with Trump.
We forget the odious Trump firing brutal abuse at Salmond over a wind farm Salmond refused to rescind.
The hand-in-glove pals depicted is more pistols at dawn.
It’s a sad day when even Keiser Soze can’t mention Scotland’s Independence vote.
I watched the news reports closely yesterday and what I noted particularly was that there were no vast crowd scenes only parades and Annie taking the salute. OK there were people there but you can be sure that if they were as vast as they claimed then they would have used panoramic shots to emphasise this but none – I wonder why – 35K – another unionist MSM Myth. Yet another attempt by unionists consigned to the midden, where they will all be on the 19th.
Auld Rock
One of the main opponents lives in a chalet without planning permission. The ‘farmer’ worked for Trump before they fell out – over money?
@Patrician –
Great images. Many thanks.
There’s a picture on Munguins republic showing two people who were shipped up to Scotland from England to canvass for the no campaign,
the guy is one of the people who were canvassing my area yesterday,(you couldn’t miss him as he’s really tall) I first said the accents were local but thinking about it, the only one I heard speak was the guy who was in charge who was a little nyaff with a clipboard nearly as big a him
so it turns out the local people who have such a desire for us to remain in the union come from Walthamstow, who knew?
Yep, great pics. Hope the lovely smiley police woman doesn’t get any bother though. Might be worth counting the signatures on the banner. Looks like a lot there.
There is a disclaimer before the Keiser Report on RT. The Westminster politicans have made enough anti comments.
link to mobile.twitter.com
visit Scotland -pics/bannockburn
“Menie Links are nationally (and probably internationally) unique on account of the scale and dynamism of the sand sheet, the rate of inundation of adjacent dune features and the lack of human interference. It is one of the least disturbed sand dune systems in Britain. One notable element is the long-lived nature of the bare sheet of sand that dominates the area. The lack of vegetation colonisation suggests a vigorous aeolian environment hostile to the establishment of pioneer species and dune grasses that flourish on adjacent dunes.”
From Assessment of the Geomorphological Interests at Foveran Links SSSI (ROAME No. F05AC701) a Commissioned Report No.232
for SNH get it here link to snh.org.uk
Shock horror, Wings Over Scotland caught on film somewhere near the Ministry of Truth. Meanwhile Citizen Smart gives us a nice little ditty to hum along to the news next time you’re watching
link to youtube.com
Also, the 10000 flags have arrived and were being handed out today. Make sure you get yours….
You took the words right out of my mouth Capella. 🙂
One important thing is that David Cameron the BBC and the rest, will know the truth. Their hope that this event would show a great surge of support has only left them with a sick feeling of disappointment. THEY KNOW THE TRUTH. Now I’ve never said this before “I’d like to be a fly on such and such a wall” but what would I give to see the private reactions of the Unionist leaders?
Where do I get my flag Alistair?
Armed Forces Day, a great day out for the fodder, i mean kids.
so bleedin true Findley,
just an advertising campaign for the next tranch of bodies to feed into the mincer.
We do not have democracy and never have anywhere in Britain so to find who did or didn’t do will never be known until we actually get democracy.
Brown envelope Britain has gone on for decades where political partys have set up consultancy agency after agency funded by the taxpayer to solve their manifestos promises as they were only election sound bites to get their hands on power. Then they can quote these think tank findings as impartial.
link to bbc.co.uk
The MSM has been knobbled by the establishment through using national security to curtail how far they can go and now.
link to twitter.com
Independence for Scotland scares Westminter to hell because it shows them up to be the lying charlatans they are and at the mercy of the rest of the UK.
@John King
Mark (who organised it) is distributing them. I’ve got a box of them for the Stirling Yes shop. I would ask at your local Yes and see if they’re getting some. Mark was saying he’ll be at T in the park with them there as well.
Findlay hits the nail: Armed Forces Day, a great day out for the fodder, I mean kids.
Yes, exactly.
All that propaganda wasted to undermine Bannockburn yet what mother would take her kids to see soldiers march past rather than a great battle enactment and ice cream down on the green field?
alistair says:
Also, the 10000 flags have arrived and were being handed out today. Make sure you get yours….
I’m expecting Mark to drop our order off personally tomorrow sometime, as well as a delivery for Dumfries. I can hardly wait. How will I be able to sleep tonight? Oh wait I know…
One flag…Two flags…Three flags…Four ffflllagggggs…five mumble mumble… Six zzzzzzz 😛
@Kenny at al.
Actually the SSSI at Menie was designated because of the mobile sand dunes system – now imobilised by Trump.
Don’t forget that Jack McConnell courted Trump and then right at the start of the SNP’s term so did AS. Clearly his thinking was that it would signal that Scotland was open for business. But I think that he realised fairly quickly that it was a mistake to get into bed with Trump so obviously. I mean he’s hardly Trump’s favourite person now after the off-shore windfarm was approved, is he? So clearly the SNP has distanced itself quite quickly.
I think that at the time the SNP was in power for the first time ever and made some mistakes (I’m not so sure about the new Forth Bridge either) but I think they got up to speed petty damn quickly and I think they also realised that a consensual approach and not pandering to big business was a better way for Scotland to go forward.
(By the way, you do know when Labour go on about the possible corporation tax cut for big business, it’s actually for ALL business, even the teeny wee ones with one employee? Just to get that straight).
Anyone want to criticise Alex Salmond for the imminent dualling of the A9, or keeping tuition fees down or protectng the S-NHS as best it can? Those are some of the tangible and real prorities and successes for the SG.
The 35,000 figure was actually for across the UK as a whole and not just Stirling
There were events as per previous AFD across the whole of the UK, conveniently the BBC glazed over that fact
link to bbc.com
link to bbc.com
The number for Stirling was 1600 or as the BBC at one time reported ‘around 2000’
The BBC like to manipulate figures. Take another instance when they play the figures down at the protest at its own Scottish HQ in Pacific Quay. Online it reports ‘hundreds’ and a figure, reportedly from the Police of ‘350’
Where as the attendant crowd was estimated by Police Scotland as being nearly 2000 !
BBC reports “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters”
A very strange expression. in all my years of reading, watching marches,demos etc I have never seen or heard the police give a ‘maximum’ figure, it’s usually police estimated the crowd,demonstrators etc at such and such or even between such and such.
Why would they give a ‘maximum’ figure? especially when by most accounts there were many more than that. It leave’s them open to question if it can be proved that it was over 350.
One important thing is that David Cameron the BBC and the rest, will know the truth. Their hope that this event would show a great surge of support…
This.
For those of you who missed Bannockburn Live on Saturday, or had got drookit and gawn hame, or whatever, here’s Dougie singing Caledonia in the rain from yesterday at Bannockburn
link to youtube.com
Enjoy.
Was at PQ today and would estimate the crowd to be ~1000-1200 (based on being at football matches with similar numbers).
Well done to all who attended with their colourful, and witty, banners.
If we do this again we need:
1) A raised platform for speakers/performers etc.
2) A decent PA system
3) A compare
4) A settled running order
5) Organised chanting.
A symbolic “delivery” to the BBC – a letter to Boothman or McQuarrie or something.
@ Jim Thomson
8:11 pm
Thanks very much for that, yet more reading to be done before bedtime.
Great this internet business, there can’t be a more educated bunch in the history of referendums!
Instead of dreading the next No or undecided encounter, I really look forward to it.
Thanks to Wings, Bella, Newsnetscotland etc, the Unionists don’t stand a chance in a debate with the public.
I notice bbc are now reporting Bannockburn event
better now then never—caught on the hop.or intentional?
DaveDee says:
“BBC reports “Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters””
Let’s look at that again..
“Police said there was a maximum of 350 protesters, who carried flags and banners outside Pacific Quay, the BBC’s Glasgow base.”
There probably were about 350 protesters who carried flags and banners. The rest of us didn’t carry flags or banners. I would guess at least 3 times that figure.
We were there THE NEILSTON BRIGADE and it was probably 1000 there also. Next time we need a better P.A. System to hear good speakers. The Pipers drowned out Speeches needs to be more organised but its a start.
A celebration of one of Scotland’s key periods in history that actually cemented the nation state known as Scotland as an independent sovereign nation was of course completely snubbed by Cameron & his Royal friends yesterday.
Regardless of the sell out crowd & the miserable attendance for Armed Forces Day, it is quite revealing that the Prime Minister of the UK of GB & NI deliberately chose to avoid making an appearance at this monumental event.
BfH said: notice BBC are reporting Bannockburn event – better now then never.
Yes, but had it been held darn sarf it would have had an hour’s television transmission, if not today, because it clashed with another, ahem, nearby event, then edited and shown a few days later as prime time viewing.
BTW Great catching up with WoS folks albeit briefly. Couldn’t believe the number of signatures on the Wings banner by the end. Awsome.
Great coverage of the media’s take on the events Rev. Good to see the Scottish event being fully subscribed in spite of the media. It was pretty dreich on the Saturday, I hope they got better weather today, and that the organisers got some more facilities in place. The long slow queues for everything left little time to get round all the other stuff.
Sorry for going O/T here folks but thought I’d better warn you all there is going to be a bloodbath in Glasgow tomorrow night. Specifically at Pacific Quay. 😛
A certain Mr Sillars will be *ahem* debating with Mr Forsyth on BBC Scotland’s *cough* flagship programme Scotland 2014. 😉
Monday debating on @BBCScot2014 with Michael Forsyth. Tuesday Speaking in Gorbals, Wednesday in East Kilbride #indyref
Does anyone know if the BBC have made the necessary arrangements for Mr Forsyth to be transported to the local A & E department after this *ahem* spectacular? 😛
I didn’t know Forsyth had any blood in him. Thought it was replaced with glycerine yonks ago.
George Galloway writes for the Daily Mail defending the union.
link to dailymail.co.uk
Fascinating how the referendum has made the British ‘left’ (ahem) the biggest fans of the Express, Telegraph, Daily Mail etc.
Just a wee reminder – your new anthem if you vote no…
O fearties of Scotland
When will we see our like again
That gave up the fight for
our own independence
And cast a no vote to continue
Westminster rule
And sent the money
Down south again
The tills are bare now
And politicians lie through and through
We all did our duty
Which we so dearly held
And cast a no vote to continue
Westminster rule
And now we love being
A region for sure
18th of September is passed now
A genetically challenging day
But we can still vote now
In our wee pretendy parliament
And cast a wee vote
For B-list MSPs
And make sure we never
forget our place again
MajorBloodnok says:
I didn’t know Forsyth had any blood in him. Thought it was replaced with glycerine yonks ago.
Right enough Major, thanks for correcting me there. Maybe he won’t need to be taken to the local A & E department after all perhaps a local engineering works would do instead. 😛
Dougie McLean and Caledonia.
Gosh, that brings back memories.
I heard him sing this song 20 odd years ago at a Runrig concert in Edinburgh and hearing him today on the video clip had exactly the same reaction, a lump in my throat and a wee tear in the eye.
Such emotion and feeling and very, very apt on such a special occasion as the celebration of the Battle of Bannockburn.
Lets try and spread truth and honesty between ourselves for we know the media wont give us any.The media lost all integrity a few years ago when their favourite political party failed in their bid t win in their stronghold of Scotland.Today and for the foreseeable future we wont get any truth nor honesty from the “British Media” and the “Scottish Media” are nowhere to be found,if they ever existed in the first place.
Patrician
Oh the memories, great pics.
I had a really great day today, manning the Wings banner with you. Fantastic meeting all the other Wings foot soldiers. That Ronnie Anderson really is a hard gaffer, he made us hold that banner until the place was empty.
Loads of pics and vids taken of the banner, so the Wings logo will be spread far and wide tonight.
I have uploaded a couple of pics. (First time)
link to caz121.imgur.com
Can’t wait for the next protest, hopefully middle week of Commonwealth Games, max publicity worldwide.
Special wee hi to Jeannie.
Yes the original transfusion was a complicated procedure, but Forsyth showed considerable sang-froid. Both before and after.
They try to talk up the BIG UK event–and what happens? No one is interested. The BBC will try and ham it up for all its worth–they just do not get it. Well, maybe they do but they’ll never admit it on public telly. But a wee look along the road would have told the where the wind is blowing–where the people’s loyalties in Scotland truly rest. Feel the breeze BBC–feel the breeze. There’s truly is a lost cause–yae can fool some of the people and all that.
BBC–we have your number. And so do teh people of Scotland. Have to try harder.
I think this is link to pics,
link to imgur.com
Why would they give a ‘maximum’ figure? especially when by most accounts there were many more than that. It leave’s them open to question if it can be proved that it was over 350.
There is an extremely easy answer to this question. The police often ‘under estimate’ the size of the crowd in actual numbers. Its far more common than many think and is not just limited to ‘Indy’ events.
In simple terms it is down to the early health and safety analysis done for the event. If they decide that the event poses a low risk of trouble then they will adjust the number of officers on the ground down to the amount that they believe to be a workable number in the circumstances – more officers will be available if required. This I believe is what we have seen today and if the police admitted that the number of at PQ was closer to 1800 – 2000 then someone would be in great trouble as they have made a decision to have enough officers for a maximum of 350.
@caz-m
caz121’s images are not publicly available.
@caz-m
Zoinks! You’ve taken a wrong turn.
Not your night is it.
Hiya lads n lasses I hope that all that made it to Pacific
Quay had a good day,wan question ( how did that bloody hairy string get tied tae the Wings Banner)> It is always
a pleasure to meet the many people representing the various Indy groups,& the passion & dedication shines through. To all the lurkers re lurchers ( you will find your bark like the many before you ).To all the posters of Vids /photos you have done the people proud, there’ll be many a keep sake of today,especialy the Policewoman & her collegue, I think the Panda’s made her day ( ah knows who’s you,s ur wink wink . I know I can speak on behalf of the Wings team, We will be up for the next outing,we had a brilliant day amongst brilliant people.
REV–u couldn’t make it up
sky paper review 1030
re-watch 1130pm
guardian
Labour going to announce lower corperation tax later this week
ED this past week in Scotland,hammering SNP about corperation tax in a independent Scotland
wtf
Grouse Beater
Canny see them holding any Bannockburn events marking the 700th anniversary darn sarf… I but I get your point!
The BBC in Scotland has reached its nadir this weekend , from which they paradoxically will no doubt sink further. They have proved a more formidable enemy to our ambitions for Scotland’s future than Better No Together Thanks U KOK.
To hell with them.
Well done to everyone for the great turnout today. Looked great on the live stream – thought the good Prof was wonderful (amidst so many other great Yessers). Pretty down i could not be there. Thank you.
O.K. folks, I know we are all still enjoying the aftermath of today’s excellent event at Pacific Quay, we’ll good news folks the next event has been announced.
link to tinyurl.com
Are they ready for what is about to befall them in a month’s time? 😛
Went to Bannockburn Live today- lots of people, and was really encouraged by the large number of Yes t-shirts and stickers (also saw a guy with a Wings t-shirt!) It actually seemed like they were unprepared for the numbers- large queues for the bars and food stalls, as well as the battle re-enactments.
Didn’t see a single UKOK/No Thanks while I was there- I found that quite surprising.
Just back in,canvassing earlier then out helping a mate with some work,absolutely knacked.The replies on the doorsteps kept me going though,plenty yessers.
So,in short,too tired to read all comments and see what the numbers at PQ were.Anyone care to enlighten me?