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Wings Over Scotland


Before you vote

Posted on February 18, 2017 by

No.3 in the series: Caroline, originally from Hastings in Sussex, now Edinburgh.

Previously:

(All clips via the always-excellent Phantom Power Films.)

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  1. 18 02 17 11:56

    Before you vote | speymouth

99 to “Before you vote”

  1. Smallaxe says:

    A journey worth taking!

    Peace Always

  2. Ian McCubbin says:

    Just tweeted these what more can I say.

  3. Grant says:

    Excellent! People like Caroline are the most important persuaders in Indy2.

  4. fillofficer says:

    a wee bit of research goes a long, long way & once you know, you cant go back. Welcome to all new yessers

  5. Proud Cybernat says:

    The field workers…

    http://imgur.com/a/8zUWb

  6. Hamish100 says:

    Good videos

    Worthwhile for a wider audience. TV?

    Ot I see the BBC and brexiters are complaining about the cost of the Scottish Government intervening in the brexit 5o case.

    The brexiters don’t have the understanding that if the RUK brexit government had not challenged the courts decision this would have saved us all the time and monies in the court case.

    How much did Whitehall cost us in challenging the judgement?- oops no figures given.

  7. heedtracker says:

    Great videos and huge applause to everyone in them taking the time to explain their YES thoughts.

  8. Marie Clark says:

    Welcome Caroline. Pleased that you have decided to come and join us. The more the merrier.

  9. Az says:

    That was very uplifting, wonderful!

    I think many may feel, as I do, that we can’t be counting chickens that haven’t hatched etc, because the last time it seemed as if we had it in the bag. The result brought disbelief and sadness to me for a very long time.

    There is anecdotal evidence all around that the tide is turning. I personally know three young ladies (all friends with each other) who, I was surprised by their frankness, voted No. They are all very Yes now: one said she felt duped, another was raging at Brexit. These are people who see their future being diminished by an out of touch and reckless government. Ordinary people with no particular enthusiasm for politics, but somehow impervious to the dead-tree scrolls’ messages of doom.

    These films are excellent not only to give confidence to those thinking of changing their minds, but also to Yessers who need re-ignited. Superb!

  10. Proud Cybernat says:

    It’s so great to see people who finally really ‘get’ what it’s all about here in Scotland. Well done Caroline and welcome aboard – so great to have you!! You brilliantly articulated the argument for Indy and did so far better than many a home grown Scot could ever have done. A real asset.

  11. heedtracker says:

    That Cameron chancer eh? Pre poll 2014, he’s pleading and begging, I love you, please please please don’t leave us, you’re our equals, our partners, you should lead us not leave us…

    Morning after NO scrapes it, there he is, classic tory, English votes for England people, fuck em up there in our Scotland region of greater England. And boy was old Cammers not kidding around.

  12. One_Scot says:

    Having watched the video of Caroline, it does make me realise that people with an open and reasonable mind can see what is best for Scotland.

    Thank you Caroline for sharing your story. It gives me great hope for Scotland’s and our children’s future.

  13. davidb says:

    Am no really wantin tae rain on abodies parade, but she says she is a member of the National Party. I cant imagine how someone would have no real clue about politics before 2014 then up and join any political party, least of all ours.

    Those damned polls are showing a slow drift, but its not a torrent yet. At elections we consistently top the polls and get high 40’s, but why are we still not breaching the 50’s all the time? Does anyone expect us to poll over 45 % or so in May?

    Young people are crucial here. They have to vote. They have to know they have to vote. They have to persuade their doubting grandparents to sit on their hands. They have to hide granny’s postal vote.It is the children who will reap the benefits of independence in spades. Its for their future they have to win this.

  14. Bob MACK says:

    @Davidb,

    Perhaps you should then look at the SNP membership figures pre and post referendum.

  15. Grouse Beater says:

    Really comforting, and deeply reassuring, to hear the thoughtful explain their thinking.

    We should cherish them, and encourage them to speak up for Scotland, and speak out against racism:

    Your weekend reading

    English racism runs riot: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dEN
    Automobiles run riot: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dJi

  16. The Rough Bounds. says:

    @Davidb. 12.39.

    Never heard of Paul on his way to Damascus?

  17. Sinky says:

    Hamish100 says:@ 12.15

    Tories have refused to confirm cost of Sumpreme Court appeal which any first year Constitutional law student could tell would fail.

    This petition was rejected

    Theresa May to personally refund the costs of the Brexit Supreme Court appeal

    Theresa May tried to subvert Parliamentary Sovereignty by using the “royal prerogative” to trigger Art.50:

    A) The Supreme Court appeal never had ‘reasonable prospects of success’
    B) The appeal was unnecessary. Parliament was always going to back Art.50
    C) The appeal cost taxpayers millions

  18. paul gerard mccormack says:

    Very genuine and reasonably, comprehensively and articulately put, Caroline. Thank you.

  19. ScottieDog says:

    The Films are a great campaign tool in themselves.

  20. aldo_macb says:

    Brilliant. Please, people, share these videos with No voters. There’s no point in only Yes voters seeing them.

  21. It is comforting to see that ‘English’ people are accepted in Scotland and feel safe supporting independence.

  22. Calum McKay says:

    Hastings, know it well!

    Welcome to a movement that has the objective to make the lives of all people living in Scotland better!

  23. Hamish100 says:

    Sinks

    Thanks for the update on court costs. Maybe you could get a job with the BBC!

  24. Bill McLean says:

    Inspiring little film as were the 2 earlier ones
    – how many folk are going to see them though? Movement in the polls is glacial and yet anecdotally lots of people report they know changers. Not seen anything of the anti-BBC posters here in the Dunfermline area. Is anything still happening?

  25. Contrast these excellent views with the Scotland/SNP Bad straps in to today’s Herald. I think they can drop the ‘Scotland’ from the title now. It is becoming a sick joke.
    Waiting times at the ‘Queen Elizabeth’ Hospital shocker.
    Angus Robertson wife and a sleazy ‘cronyism’ smear.
    £140,000 ‘wasted’ by the BADSNP challenging the Brexit insanity in court.
    And so on.
    This is where the argument shall be won.
    A positive uplifting case for Self Determination, initially within the EU, until a Scottish Parliament is established and political stability sets in, and truly Scottish Centre Left and Right political parties emerge, and at last, we, the citizens of Scotland elect a government of the Scottish People, accountable to the people of Scotland.
    I think that we all offer our deepest thanks to the 3 contributors.
    We continue to make an overwhelmingly positive case for Self Determination, while challenging the Alternative Facts trundled out by Mundell Dugdale Davidson and the LabTory/LisTory/LibTory Boys via a compliant shrinking print media, and quite frankly State Broadcasting ‘Will Say/Did Say’ Propaganda Machine.
    WE are too big, too clever, too rich, and that’s what has them severely spooked this time.
    I am positive that it has occurred to many of the more astute English citizens, and that probably numbers 20 million or so, that an independent Scotland, close relative as well as nearest neighbour, will be no bad thing as the Arch Right Tory Government closes England’s Borders, and virtually isolates England and Wales from the rest of the world.
    Dual English /Scottish Nationality will always be an option; the real ‘best of both worlds’ if you like.
    Now where have I heard that phrase before?

  26. HandandShrimp says:

    For goodness sake don’t let Prof Stephenson see these.

    😉

  27. readystedigo says:

    @Davidb,

    Re your comment “I cant imagine how someone would have no real clue about politics before 2014 then up and join any political party, least of all ours”

    I relate very strongly to what Caroline said in her video (the only difference is I have always lived in Scotland). I’ve never been massively interested in politics, I voted No in 2014 but Brexit has opened my eyes because it is quite clear the status quo is not working.

    I’ve started reading sites like this and I joined the SNP last month (I’ve never been a member of a political party before).

    Once you open your mind to the possibility that perhaps your previous views might not always have been correct and start to research things, it is remarkable. What I have also learned is just how appalling the media is in general.

    I don’t think you should be too surprised about people like me and Caroline, some of us have just taken a bit longer to open our minds. It has taken the current system being so obviously broken to motivate me to research things and now I feel that anyone with half a brain and a willingness to consider alternative views should be able to see that – but I didn’t feel that before June 2016.

  28. Glamaig says:

    These films are fantastic and should be used as campaign broadcasts when the time comes, instead of the talking head and baby hand stuff.

    By the way does anybody here actually know anybody who has switched from Yes to No? Seems to be plenty anecdotal evidence for No to Yes but not the other way round.

  29. Thepnr says:

    @Glamaig

    Agreed, the quality and message is so good they should be used as campaign broadcasts.

  30. Croompenstein says:

    Maybe someone could show it to our very own Proud Scot but Hastings brothers 🙂

  31. Chick McGregor says:

    Duly shared on FB. Thank you Caroline.

    BTW My policy on accepting friends on FB was to see how many friends we had in common, if more than 400 or so I’d accept.

    Now realise, this is the wrong thing to do.

    From now on I am accepting all and hopefully more No/undecideds that way.

  32. Capella says:

    Congratulations to Caroline and Phantom Films for presenting such a positive image. It’s a great antidote to the endless stream of doom emanating from the MSM.
    Fair lifts the spirits.

    Where to show them? What about an online portal which can collate all these different media and make them easy to find. From short videos to livestreamed talks and events, to clips from Parliaments (Scottish, Westminster and EU) to papers dealing with all aspects of independence.

    There’s so much information available but collating it is difficult.

    As an example, here’s a Scottish Government paper detailing the theft of CAP funding from the EU which was meant to help Scottish farmers but instead, is shared around the whole UK:

    What is the problem?
    * The budget position in 2013 sees Scotland receive the third lowest rate per hectare for direct payments (Pillar 1) – lower than all other parts of the UK and lower than all EU member states except Estonia and Latvia
    * Scotland receives the lowest rate per hectare for rural development (Pillar 2) funding – lower than all other parts of the UK and other member states.

    This paper would be useful for discussions in rural areas. but how can people find it unless they are pretty IT savvy?

    https://archive.is/eeeDw

    Within Europe the UK Government negotiated Scotland to the bottom of the league table for both Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. Within the UK, it has done nothing to mitigate the situation despite our well founded arguments.

  33. Phydaux says:

    Keep them coming and heartfelt thanks and gratitude to all 3 for sharing their personal journeys and light bulb moments on the way.Thus helping to enlighten all those who see and hear them.
    Personal testimonies are powerful and moving and this is a quality piece of filming and production by Phantom Power Films.

  34. Thepnr says:

    Just realised why I like these short films so much. There honest and well…Just feel so real and people who watch will believe their message.

    It comes from the heart.

  35. Effijy says:

    £140,000 ‘wasted’ by the BADSNP challenging the Brexit insanity in court.

    Now how would any sane person compare that challenge to fight for the rights and wishes of Most Scots, against Westminster’s Lib Dem Ian Carmichael wasting £1,000,000
    of Tax payers money on a Public Enquiry into his lies against our First Minister.

    £1,000,000 wasted in the interests of one corrupt Lib Dem MP, the only one in Scotland.
    What punishment did he receive, how much money was recovered from Carmichael and the Lib Dems, how much of a profile has this story in the UK Media, Absolutely Nothing!

    I read someone else’s Daily Hail today, and its the same old Story, SNP Bad, SNP Really Bad, SNP Bader than really Bad, and nearer the back pages, SNP Bader that anything Bad this side of Baghdad.

    Absolutely Pathetic.!Newspaper my Ar**

  36. Effijy says:

    The Daily Hail reports shock SNP Bad story regarding the new
    Southern General Hospital in Glasgow!

    This brand new facility that was built, unlike Gordon Brown’s new hospitals, with money from the Scottish Government, and not Gordon’s pals that get a 600% return on their money.

    As a new Super Hospital, it does have teething problems, and,
    as the UK Media will tell you missed the 95% A & E Waiting Times target, hitting 87.5%.

    Hands up, work there still to do, but how does such a shock compare to NHS England-Right Across the Board?

    Well from their own Doctored web site, it seems that NHS England has averaged just 86.2% of target.

    Now isn’t that shocking that the UK/English Media will not discuss their own miserable NHS figures, but instead they try to demean the best performing UK NHS Service every!

    Please see pasted information below:

     Urgent and Emergency Care – December 2016 | See Source
     A&E attendances
    There were 1,943,580 attendances at A&E in December 2016, 4.1% more than in December 2015. Attendances over the latest 12 months are higher than levels in the preceding 12 month period (an increase of 5.0%). 
    86.2% of patients were admitted, transferred or discharged from A&E within 4 hours of arrival, below the 95% standard.

    The standard of 95% of patients spending 4 hours or less in A&E was last achieved in July 2015.

  37. Black Joan says:

    Thank you Caroline.

    It would be good to witness a debate between these articulate NO to YESSers and Jill Stephenson and her like-minded dinner-party friends.

    The ultra Yoons shriek at us because we are vile cybernats and Wingers, but how would they cope with these intelligent and carefully reasoned decisions to vote YES next time?

    More shrieking?

  38. Sunniva says:

    What a wonderful heart felt well thought out testimony. Lots of clues in this lady’s journey about what the next Yes campaign should focus on; different destiny, different country, different culture, control of our destiny, control of our resources, and her final point, that our resources are far under estimated. Brilliant.

  39. Cuilean says:

    Looking forward to a future episode in this series, by a ‘Langholm Farmer’*

    Get yersels doon tae Langholm, Phantom Power Films!

    *Per the BBC’s ‘Question Time’, screened on 16 February 2017!

  40. Jack Murphy says:

    Three great wee films. 🙂 Thankyou Wings.
    Phantom Power Films have done a lot in the past. Well worth a look:
    http://tinyurl.com/hpea9xc

  41. Artyhetty says:

    Great film, and good to know that people are having their eyes opened. An intelligent look at the whys and wherefores.
    There are moments when I just hope it’s not too late, and can’t believe that support for Independence is not huge by now. Caroline said that she knows people in business who are not sure which is more scary, brexit or independence? Hmmm, that’s a no brainer, surely, by now.

    Regards Scotland’s assets, they are very healthy, but the unionists will continue to asset strip Scotland. We are losing people and businesses and therefore jobs, as a direct result of UK immigration policy.

    The Barnett formula, a very heavy stick with which to hit and keep control of Scotland.
    As was mentioned yesterday a few times, just why would the unionists in england want to keep Scotland shackled if we are such useless subsidy junkies. We all know that is a myth that is still used to keep control.

    The council elections are the next thing to concentrate on, crucial that we see change for the better there. End of the long time gravy train for some.

  42. Arthur Martin says:

    It’s very refreshing to see these short films being made featuring ordinary people’s accounts of their personal journeys from NO voters to YES.
    That’s something I never thought that I would hear myself say as my attitude to anyone that voted NO in Indyref1 was very hostile and I felt nothing but contempt and disgust for them. That attitude was further hardened when the few NO voters that I knew personally, openly gloated about the result on Christmas Day 2014 resulting in a bitter family rift that has only recently been healed.

    Two and a half years on those feelings have softened with time and my attitude to NO voters has mellowed greatly. People voted NO for all sorts of reasons, some which I could emphathise with and others that I simply could not understand, but what I have learned is that if we are not prepared to throw our indignation aside and welcome wholeheartedly people who have reassessed the situation and changed their minds, then we are on a hiding to nothing and risk losing the next Scottish Independence Referendum which would be a very bitter blow indeed.

    So, welcome all new yessers, your support is greatly appreciated and together we will build a nation that reflects all of of our visions and a society that we can all be rightly proud of.

  43. galamcennalath says:

    These short films are the best political broadcasts possibly, I reckon.

    People who voted NO explaining what they believe has changed and how that has made them YES. These are best folks to persuade other Soft NOs.

    Capella says:

    CAP funding from the EU

    I know people who farm poor land and those annual subsidies are essential. I’m not talking farmers with Range Rovers who send kids to private schools here, but people who make do with a 10 year old pickup. Their biggest source of income is CAP payments. And they produce some of the world’s best beef and lamb.

    WM has promised payments up until 2020. But not beyond. Does anyone think Brexit London will continue to pay ANY subsidies to Scottish marginal farms/crofts?

    You are right that WM already negotiated a crap deal for them.

    Out with Brexit and our remote/marginal agriculture will be killed stone dead. Indy and negotiating for ourselves with the EU and we can beef up (good pun) our crofting/rural communities.

  44. BJ says:

    It’s very difficult to get a reasoned discussion with NO voters. If it is mentioned they become angry and at times abusive.

    A debate by articulate and sensible voters from both sides of the argument who can put their points across without sounding desperate and frantic would be welcome. Not sure who would be the presenter though!

  45. Thepnr says:

    @Arthur Martin

    Well said Arthur, we all felt the pain after Sep 18th, wounds heal though and if we can’t welcome former No voters then we never can win can we?

    People voted No for all kinds of reasons as did we that voted Yes, nobody was wrong if they voted for what they believed. However when you find out that what you thought you voted for was a lie it is perfectly legitimate to change your mind.

    I believe a lot of No voters have changed their mind and become Yessers, however so too has the swing went the other way with Yes voying leavers. I don’t think they will be too hard to win back. After all they voted Yes once and I’m sure can be persuaded to do so again. Being in the EU has to be seen by them as the lesser or two evils. The main evil to their well being is the UK.

    I do hope that with time they will see that just as you have done by discarding your formally hostile attitude, disgust and contempt to No voters.

    I think the Yes/Leavers who say they have now changed to No voters will also soften over time and come back to the fold.

  46. galamcennalath says:

    This paper would be useful for discussions in rural areas. https://archive.is/eeeDw

    Just read that. It’s worse than I thought.

    “The total allocation to Scotland under the Rural Development Regulation 2014 – 2020 amounts to €477.8 million. This compares to some €2.4 billion allocated to Finland – a country of similar size to Scotland in population terms (5.2 million people) or €2.2 billion allocated to Ireland – a country smaller than Scotland in terms of utilised agriculture area.”

    There needs to be a big YES focus on rural communities in IndyRef2.

  47. BJ says:

    Galamcennalath @ 4:03
    Does anyone think Brexit London will continue to pay ANY subsidies to Scottish marginal farms/crofts?”

    Farmers and fishermen are completely deluded into thinking that the Tories in Westminster will carry on looking after them. It’s a pathetic argument to have with them. Some of these farmers think that it’s all the fault of the SG.

    in this area their Fathers and Grandfathers mostly voted Tory and they did well under them as landowners. Maybe they think the good times at the expense of others will come back? What they don’t realise is that their market will be smaller and there will be much more competition to face and the final insult to them will be when there is no longer a Saltire on their produce, it will be a Butchers Apron.

    The new president of the Scottish Farmers says that he will make sure everything will be okay for Scottish producers. I’m not positive but I think he’s one of that wee creepy Fluffy fella’s constituents.

  48. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Arthur Martin @ 16:03,

    Sorry to read that your family had such a falling-out over the indyref. It seems that for some it really was “divisive” after all. Whichever side prevails in such circumstances, it adds insult to injury to gloat over the result.

    I suspect that some of that “gloating” was a kind of nervous relief anyway. If that relief had subsequently been channelled politically into addressing the legitimate concerns over autonomy that were revealed so starkly by the vote, things might well have turned out differently. But the opportunity was wasted, and after this new trampling over our wishes I don’t think anyone is feeling much like crowing these days.

    I hope that when we win (as I believe we can and will) we will not behave as arrogantly as “no” did last time. I can’t see us going into George Square (to be renamed shortly thereafter), giving Nazi salutes and beating people up, anyway.

    Yes, we all suffered a bad knock on the night of 18th Sept. 2014, but the ideas that drove us then are still very much alive. You are right, we can’t win by condemning those who couldn’t understand before, we have to continue to win them over, and this (hopefully ongoing) series of personal experiences is the most effective I’ve seen for that yet.

    Still, we musn’t forget those who voted “yes” last time but have since been led astray by the Britnat Brexiteers. I believe most can be reconciled to voting the same way again, because the same reason applies only more so, but we have somehow to reach out to them too.

  49. Croompenstein says:

    A lot of folk are still allied to the thought of union and one nation they cannot see what we can. On paper the union is a decent enough idea and some Scots see themselves as equal in this union. However we know that the union is a sham and an imperial set up where we have little or no voice.

    When A50 is triggered and the negotiations begin how can Fluffy represent us when he is outside the door, the ‘SoS for Scotland’ isn’t even in the fucking room.

    Surely then more and more will have the scales peeled from their eyes when they see we aren’t even in the room..

  50. John McLeod says:

    These are great videos.

  51. galamcennalath says:

    Croompenstein says:

    When A50 is triggered

    I predict the WM Article 50 statement will make special mention of Gibraltar and NI and NOT Scotland.

    May probably thinks she can stop/delay/win IndyRef2 so is ignoring Scotland and focusing on UK Brexit. Those advising her will know fck all about Scotland and she may be going with the ‘Sturgeon is bluffing’ belief.

    So, Mundell isn’t needed.

    Of course, I could be wrong, we will know soon enough.

  52. Clapper57 says:

    @ Arthur Martin: 16.:03
    “my attitude to NO voters has mellowed greatly”

    Hey Arthur, One of my best friends who is a Labour voter …and was a Remain voter…is STILL a No voter and continually calls Nicola ‘Iron knickers’.

    He gets all of his news from MSM and actually said he would vote Tory before he would vote SNP.

    I have tried to educate him but to no avail….however he is still a good friend and despite his politics I cannae help but love him as a friend because friendships must NEVER be broken because of political differences.

    I am still hopeful he may eventually see the light….but guess he has to overcome his own demons of fear first before he can convert to yes.

    Have a good day

  53. Jock McDonnell says:

    Once upon a time the empire gave many Scots a sense of belonging to something powerful, opportinities in commerce, government & military adventure abounded.
    The multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-coloured nature of the empire meant that Scots didn’t feel subsumed by England, indeed for some Scots there was a big World out there to be explored, conquered even. A strange pride in being British, top dog.

    Thats all gone now, all that is left is a nostalia trip. The empire has been replaced by a decaying state, consolidating its remaining strength & resources around the old imperial capital.

    In this situation, with the counter-balance of the multi-cultural empire gone, Scotland is weak & exposed, vulnerable to the whims of an English electorate. Some Scots just haven’t realised this yet, still holding to the declining certainties of GB, but they are slowly awakening to just what a post brexit UK could look like and it isn’t pretty.

  54. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Clapper57 @ 16:59:

    He … actually said he would vote Tory before he would vote SNP.

    Yes, the classic “backing into a corner” psychological reaction to an awkward challenge. McTermite had a similar response on Newsnight last Fri. evening, “anything but SNP”. One finds it hard to believe such folk really can reconcile whatever led them to voting Labour in the past with voting hard-Brexit Tory now.

    One possible tack (besides getting him to watch the vids, of course) is to appeal to him that if people like him persist as they claim, they will only succeed in one thing: destroying their own party. The signs are already there for all to see – Labour risk being torn apart by the tidal forces on it, SNP on one side and Tory on the other, as voters increasingly defect to one side or the other.

  55. CameronB Brodie says:

    Clapper57
    If your friend respects the principle of universal human rights, then they are rationally bound to support Scottish self-determination. If they reset, why not ask if he is happy with the British state’s failure to comply with the spirit of international development law, with respect to our “Right to Development”. Perhaps you could remind him that social justice is unobtainable without the respect of universal human rights.

    The Right to Development – where do we stand?
    International commitments by governments do not necessarily translate into a legally binding rights. The RtD itself is not (yet) a legally binding instrument, but draws its legal foundation from binding human rights covenants. From a legal point of view, the RtD can be described as “soft law.” This term denotes a group of human rights which have been generally accepted by the world community and reaffirmed in declarations and resolutions by the leaders of many states. Never-the less, they have not reached the status of law in those countries.

    http://www.fes-globalization.org/publications/FESOccPapers23.pdf

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  56. blackhack says:

    Davidb @ 12.39
    “I cant imagine how someone would have no real clue about politics before 2014 then up and join any political party, least of all ours.”

    You’d be surprised david….I’m one of those people….

  57. Les Wilson says:

    Reading on Wiki about Scotland helping France, I came across the Battle of Battle of Baugé in France way back. The Scots made a name for themselves there, and they won the battle for the French.

    In the aftermath the Pope himself when hearing of the Scots win had this to say. Excerpt from Wiki-

    [4] No more were the Scots dismissed as “wine drinkers and mutton eaters” by their French allies.[11] On hearing of the Scottish victory, Pope Martin V passed comment by reiterating a common medieval saying, that “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.”

    A bit more of our history I did not know.

  58. Undeadshaun says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Independence square has a nice ring to it!

  59. Ghillie says:

    Hallo Caroline!

    Welcome = )

    Well done Phamtom Power Films = )

  60. Conan the Librarian says:

    @ Les Wilson

    You’ve only scratched the surface mate 🙂

    The Anglocentricity of history taught in our schools is unbelievable; think about it, almost every incident taught is Scots interaction with the English.

    The Scots involvement in the Thirty Years War? Ignored.

    Scots trade and emigration to Poland? Ignored.

    The interaction with the English that puts them in a bad light is also ignored, like English pirates preying off of Scots trade with the Hanseatic League.

    If you have only just heard of the Battle of Bauge, chances are you have never heard of Sir Andrew Wood, Scotland’s equivalent of Drake.

    I’ll stop now, clenching my teeth this much gets painful…

  61. Thepnr says:

    O/T But a worthwhile one. We berate the UK media for what they are, useless liars and they are rightfully despised by those of us who want an Independent country.

    A couple of years ago fellow wingers who also wanted an Independent country did more than most, they created their own media. I’m talking of Kevin who started Independence Live and Ken who started iScot magazine.

    These two guys gave up their job and put their own money and passion into making a media presence for Scotland where none existed before. They are still here more than two years later but need our help to keep going.

    It’s not easy to feed yourself on good wishes, thanks or number of likes.

    If your serious about Independence then we need to support our fledgling media until we achieve Independence. We all do the best we can and there are many who can’t to donate anything. There are many though that can afford even a small donation.

    The iScot appeal has three days left and is about 40% funded, this will be Kens last appeal it is win or bust and I hope he gets over the line for when we need him most before the next referendum.

    Three days only left, let’s show the UK what we the grassroots can do, please donate if you can.

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-magazine-phase-3-the-last-call#/

    We have our own media, let’s keep it alive.

  62. K1 says:

    SDA’s names. Calling themselves a ‘political party’ and ‘think tank’

    Party Leader – Robert L Watson Nominating Officer – Dr Kenneth Scott Treasurer – Dick Gagel

    Honorary Chairman – Dr James Wilkie

    Any of the names familiar?

  63. FairFerfochen says:

    O/T Not sure if this event is still on for tomorrow but if you are in the area may be worth a gander

    http://archive.is/eCICj

    Part of The National roadshow

  64. FairFerfochen says:

    @K1,

    Thanks for the links, off to peruse.

    Cheers

  65. Breeks says:

    Les Wilson says:
    18 February, 2017 at 5:41 pm

    ……On hearing of the Scottish victory, Pope Martin V passed comment by reiterating a common medieval saying, that “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.”…

    Laughed out loud reading that Les. Brilliant.

  66. CameronB Brodie says:

    fairferfochen
    I’d not heard of them, though that indicates little, so I had a quick skim. Lots of plausible stuff but weakly supported, IMHO. For example, this appears pretty fundamental to their reasoning but lacked substance. I think I get where they are coming from and will reserve further judgement, if required.

    Scotland’s special geo-economic situation, and the resulting divergence of interests from those of landlocked continental countries, dictates an individual approach to integration in Europe or a wider Eurasian field.

    You could always judge for yourself. I’m not giving these my personal seal of approval, just trying to deepen and broaden the perspective of analysis. 😉

    ESDP
    European Spatial Development Perspective

    Towards Balanced and Sustainable Development
    of the Territory of the European Union
    http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docoffic/official/reports/pdf/sum_en.pdf

    The European Spatial Development Perspective
    Shaping the Agenda

    http://www.nordregio.se/Global/EJSD/Refereed%20articles/refereed21.pdf

  67. galamcennalath says:

    fairferfochen says:

    Anyone know anything about this group?

    …. an irrelevant right wing group. Superficially, they sound like a Scottish version of Brexiteer Tories – low tax, isolationists.

  68. Cal says:

    To all those who have changed their minds and now support independence, you have my greatest respect. It takes bravery, intelligence, wisdom and above all humility to change your mind. Welcome! An especially warm welcome to our new supporters from south of the border. There are few things unionists (especially Scottish ones) fear more than English people who “go native”. Thank you. You are special people.

  69. Hamish100 says:

    The Herald and The National online services are asking questions about gender etc. Unfortunately I wasn’t allowed to say I am from Scotland as it didn’t exist in the pop down.
    If any of the newspaper spies are reading this I am from the Murdoch Islands?

  70. DerekM says:

    Another great production from the guys at Phantom,and welcome to the independence movement Caroline 🙂

    I see our boy thrawn is comparing us to blairites now,could one of you wingers who he has not blocked go in and drop this picture on his time line 😉

    http://www.giantbomb.com/images/1300-1693690

    In case you are wondering its a star wars character called grand admiral thrawn.

  71. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links now showing over on O/T.

  72. Davy says:

    May I offer a thousand welcomes to the new members of our YES Clan.

    Its good to meet yersels.

    Davy fa Keith.

  73. Clapper57 says:

    @ Robert J Sutherland & CameronB Brodie

    Yes you both make Valid points.

    He thinks social media promotes propaganda…I know…do not laugh in the balcony…..he is a MSM reader/viewer.

    He is immovable…I have to be honest…although he is my friend his reasons are selfish ones….he thinks leaving the Union will affect him financially .

    Not judging him as he is honest, though IMHO wrong, about his reason for staying part of UK even though I have tried to convince him that the road we are currently on will probably affect his finances even more.

    No matter what I say it just bounces off him…..have to say he is in denial as has no argument to give to support voting Labour or potentially Tory…..he is definitely in category of ‘None so blind as those who WILL not see’.

    He is definitely NOT a BritNat as when Scotland play England he is actually quite offensive towards English. I joke with him that as he wants to stay part of union surely it does not matter who wins game as according to him we are all British so win win for him no matter who wins game….funnily enough he does not agree….which is slightly irrational considering his pro Union position….but as I said before his position is purely from a personal position…money.

    I am not giving up on him….. perhaps he fits the following :

    “It’s not denial. I’m just selective about the reality I accept” – Bill Watterson

    Onwards and upwards….have a good evening guys.

  74. Les Wilson says:

    Conan the Librarian says:
    Yes I know, they want our name stuck off the planet.But no I have looked at a lot of our history.This one was more interesting because of what the pope at the time said ” Scots are antidote to the English”

    If you really want to grit your teeth search out more about the aftermath of Culloden, there are excepts from eye witnesses among what you will find.

    But here is one that could make you weep.

    A woman had a cottage and barn, not far from the battlefield, two badly injured Scots crawled into her barn, she knew they were there. Shortly after an English officer arrived on horseback and went into the cottage and asked if two injured Scots had been seen.

    She had to tell him they were in the barn for fear of her own life. She wrote afterwards the office took out his sword and went into the barn, she could hear the men screaming terribly.

    The officer came out and cleaned his sword and went away. She ventured into the barn and was horrified to see that the officers had hacked off the arms of both men, who quickly died.
    Cowardly scumbag.

    Grit your teeth Conan, I know I did.

  75. Cal says:

    Heedtracker @ 7.12
    I saw in the Daily Heil today (I didn’t buy it someone else did and I washed my hands afterwards) an article about the Peugeot deal. They are really rather concerned in the hallowed corridors of power in Westminster that since it’s much more expensive to get rid of a German employee than one from Blighty those nasty French people at Peugeot will close the plants on this side of the North Sea ahead of the ones on the far side. For example, the minimum legal redundancy pay out for a German is THREE times (!) that of a British worker. The DM was bemoning the fact that German workers have such strong employment rights. Being a right wing rag, presumably they believe Germans should “enjoy” the same generous protections as those in Vauxhall plants in England. Angela Merkel has said she’ll do whatever it takes to make sure the German plants stay open so Peugeot will be laughing all the way to the bank.

    I bet the Vauxhall workers in the north and south of England are glad the UK government has been doing its level best this last year or so to insult and alienate as many people on the continent as possible. Phew GOOD JOB!
    Rearrange the following into a well known phrase or saying: “home to roost the chickens coming are”.

  76. ian m says:

    I thoroughly enjoyed the wee clip, it is very well done (all 3 are)
    I believe that anyone who voted for Indy in 2014 will vote Indy next time too.If they were convinced in 2014 then they will be even more convinced for next time.
    Indy for farmers have lots of strong material to bring more farmers over to Yes, their lively hood is at stake.If Scotland come out of the EU we will go back in with a better deal than 477 mil probably as mentioned 2 billion plus like Finland.

  77. heedtracker says:

    Didn’t the great Tom Morton make the YES move lately? Here he is live right now, from Shetland, what votes NO, Britnats shriek,

    http://www.shetland.org/60n/radio/ze1

    You can watch oor Tom on facebook live too. He’s still got it.

  78. yesindyref2 says:

    @fairferfochen
    The SDA set themselves up as a political party, in favour of Independence, but said they wouldn’t stand candidates against the SNP until after Independence. I believe they’ve kept their word.

  79. Robert Peffers says:

    @Proud Cybernat says: 18 February, 2017 at 12:05 pm:

    “The field workers…
    http://imgur.com/a/8zUWb

    Oh! No worries, Proud Cybernat. If Engexit is as bad as it very much looks like being, and Scotland exits from the UK, there will be lots of Englanders, Welsh and N.Irish queuing up at the border posts to came and pick our crops for us. Some of them might even go to Poland looking for work.

    After all there will be no English NHS or welfare handouts down south will there?

  80. heedtracker says:

    Some of them might even go to Poland looking for work.

    They wont get in. Or if they do try, they’re going to have apply for and then be vetted for, visas, work, hols, study, all of it costs, with 27 European countries.

    Why the English thought scrapping freedom to move in Europe was such a terrible thing…

  81. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    … the English thought ….

    I believe a lot if them put very little thought into their vote for Brexit! 🙂

  82. Robert Louis says:

    Thepnr at 638pm,

    Just to keep things going, the REAL, ACTUAL alternative Scottish media we all say we want exists. It is called iScot, and it needs some support. A donation, no matter how small would be useful to help them reach their target.

    As Thepnr pointed out above, the campaigning might start very soon, and their is the big planned march in Glasgow in June this year.

    iScot is media made in Scotland.

    Appeal at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-magazine-phase-3-the-last-call#/

  83. ian m says:

    Can someone explain the nuts and bolts of an independent Scotland trading with England
    In the Eu
    In the other EU membership
    In the other other EU membership

    Is there anyway that England would find a way to replace their their trade with Scotland given our proximity and that we are on an island together

  84. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    18 February, 2017 at 8:46 pm
    heedtracker says:

    … the English thought ….

    Its the great rock n roll swindle of our time.

  85. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    18 February, 2017 at 8:46 pm
    heedtracker says:

    … the English thought ….

    That shit Carswell was on BBC r4 Any Tory Questions this afternoon, “Should Blair be sticking his oar in now?” and it made me want to throw the radio through the window. A more deceitful, sleazy, creepy SOB, there has yet to be, which isn’t fair as there are thousands of the sleaze bags.

  86. galamcennalath says:

    ian m says:

    Can someone explain the nuts and bolts of an independent Scotland trading with England
    In the Eu

    If iScotland is in the EU, and England out, then the trading regime should be the same as between England and any other EU country, I assume. I find it hard to imagine the EU having a local porous border anywhere. The same rules apply everywhere, do they not?

    As for iEngland and iScotland out of the EU. I suppose anything is possible with the will.

  87. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Clapper57 @ 19:56,

    Yes, you have a very hard row to hoe there, it seems!

    However, the mere prospect of Brexit has already lost him 15% of his income (another hidden Wilson-esque “pound in your pocket” devaluation), and the effects of that are only now just starting to filter through, with a strong likelihood of parity of the UK pound with the euro if not the dollar coming along within the next couple of years. So maybe you should ask him, just how low must the UK pound fall before he wakes up to reality? In a country sitting on two proverbial energy mountains (oil & renewables), either of which any other country would be envious of?

    There’s a song “Time will do the talking”, so maybe there’s hope even for your good friend (and you!).

    In the meantime, a good weekend to you also!

    (I notice, BTW, that it seems to have been Brexit that finally brought about the “Damascene moment” for at least two of the participants in these three videos.)

  88. ronnie anderson says:

    I dont see the point of conceeding to GCC to change the date of the Rally from April ( pre councils election ) to June, the reason’ s Im hearing is that if All Under One Banner wanted to rally in April it would have to go before the Processions Committee whereby if they agreed to a June date it would be authorised there and then .

    The question is whats the point of a Processions Committee if they can be bypassed Neil McKackay & Co have been stitched up

  89. heedtracker says:

    “Stoke Central
    Stoke byelection candidate arrested over anti-immigrant comments
    Independent candidate Barbara Fielding, 78, held on suspicion of publishing material that may stir up racial hatred”

    Graun latest, who are also putting their backs in behind JC’s Stoke cling on, after Labour PM Tristram Hunt waltzed out of politics to get a job, running the Victoria and Albert museum, as you do. Up the workers.

    “Barbara Fielding, 78, who is standing as an independent, was arrested after a complaint about her website, which calls for all immigrants to be repatriated and warns of a “seeping tide of Islamic warriors”. Police seized her mobile phone and computer and later released her on bail until next month.”

  90. clan rossy says:

    Those three videos brought a wee tear
    to my eye and hope for the future

    it just makes me sad that when people who choose
    to stay here can see the bigger picture

    on what a positive and outgoing country
    that scotland can be.

    it just makes me more sad that people who are native
    to scotland can see this but choose to ignore what
    they see all due to there faith or political beliefs
    or how financially well off they are.

    it just makes me sad that some of our fellow countryman
    still choose and believe to listen to the xenophobic right wing fascists
    that is westminster .

    it just shows what a divided people we are in this great little nation called scotland .

  91. Ealasaid says:

    @clan rossy

    I believe (hope!) that the scots are:

    1. thinking that Brexit will somehow be avoided.

    2. waiting to get an idea of what the Brexit deal will actually be before deciding.

    3. believe the BBC that everything will be OK because not much has changed yet.

    I was talking to a friend I had not seen for a while recently and he and his family were wrapped up with their young grandson and getting all their information from the BBC. All he knew was straight from the BBC. Just asked ‘but isn’t EU going to collapse?’ He even thought the YES side had disintegrated and the vote collapsed. I dropped a few things into the conversation that he obviously had never heard anything about as I could see the look of amazement on his face.

    I am sure he was a No voter previously and I hope I have at least dented his faith in the BBC at the moment. I will let him check out what I said for himself at the moment.

    But there a lot of Scots that are not that interested in politics and are not yet fully aware of what is going on. However prices are now going up and things are starting to change. They will be starting to look for their usual summer holiday and notice the pound dropping and maybe more requirements than in previous years. As more things impinge on them maybe then they will pay attention. After all IndyRef2 has not been called yet and Auntie Beeb says everything is OK!

  92. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ronnie.

    Do you think that there could be some anonymous person who might suggest, on social media, that a “flashmob” may take place in George Square on 29th April?

    No organisation; just a gathering of like-minded individuals who can belt oot a tune or twa…

  93. clipper says:

    “But there a lot of Scots that are not that interested in politics and are not yet fully aware of what is going on. However prices are now going up and things are starting to change. They will be starting to look for their usual summer holiday and notice the pound dropping and maybe more requirements than in previous years. As more things impinge on them maybe then they will pay attention. After all IndyRef2 has not been called yet and Auntie Beeb says everything is OK!”

    They’ll be told that it’s the SNP’s fault and they’ll believe it, or at least many of them will.

    There seems to be a bit of an uptick in commentators from abroad talking up Scots indy. To them looking at it from outside Independence is a no-brainer. However these people are outsiders with no real understanding or appreciation of the depth and extent of anti-independence propaganda which blankets the country, nor do they have any real understanding of the depth and extent of wilful ignorance that exists throughout the Scottish electorate as a whole.

    Seems that many here think that when the negative effects of brexit start to become real that’ll somehow swing the polls (if you believe the polls that is) but don’t be too sure. All sorts of things have happened recently which the msm can’t hide entirely and which would make it crystal clear to all but actual morons that Scotland should leave the uk, yet nothing happens. (Again, if you believe the polls.)

    I’ve no doubt that there are Scots born Scots living here now who if there was a military occupation of Scotland by the uk gov would be thinking well they haven’t kicked MY door in yet so it must be ok, it’s all the SNP’s fault and it’s better than that big scary Independence thing anyway.

    It’s quite possible that no actual EVENT will bring about the sea change in opinion that’s required to gain another 5-10% of the vote. What’s required now – right now – is to keep up the momentum started by inform Scotland with the bbc misreporting campaign. Now that that campaign’s over I get the impression that it’s now been decided to put the feet up for a while, which is precisely the wrong thing to do just now. We need more crowdfunds for billboard, advan and organised leafleting campaigns being conducted up and down the country, with the content of the ads and leaflets being created by people who not only fully understand the facts supporting the case for Independence but who also have experience in the fields of marketing, pr and social psychology. Or alternatively at least in some instances simple but highly emotive quotes from prominent unionists could be emblazoned all over the place, for example the recent Julia Hartley-Brewer tweet.

    You often see on here people anguishing about how to reach into the broader low information soft no demographic, well ffs it’s not rocket science and it’s not impossible, just stop talking about it and actually start using the available methods as related above and just do it!

  94. Jack Murphy says:

    TODAY.’BreakingNews’ Blog is reporting “Second Scottish referendum ‘weeks away’ from being called”.
    “A prominent Scottish independence campaign group has launched a new fundraising drive as it expects a second referendum to be held in May or September next year.
    Business for Scotland, which focused on the economic case for independence, said it is getting “back in full campaign mode” for a vote in 2018……………..”

    Article contains a video clip from last week’s Glasgow BBC Question Time—Mark Littlewood,Director General of Institute of Economic Affairs. INTERESTING. 🙂
    http://tinyurl.com/hqjbx68

  95. msean says:

    A very good,very reasonable.

  96. msean says:

    A very good,very reasonable video.



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