They may have done, WHO knows. Anyhoo it won’t matter what the paper says it will be rubbished immediately by the media.
The devil will be in the detail for the unionists and that’s what will surface after a couple of days. I am sure it will set out many of the answers for us.
But even this morning on the ‘headlines’ programme commentators were complaining that if there was no summary of the main points people would not read it and they couldn’t be bothered to as they had to get their stories in.
Vincent, it’s obviously a sarcastic prediction on what “Bruiser Buffoon” Carmichael will be saying on Tuesday, when the White Paper is actually published, based on his already mindless anti-indy rubbish. If you notice, he’s exiting the Tardis, the inference being he’s hitched a lift to the near future, where he has been able to read the White Paper. His comment is in line with the equally uninformed comments he and other like him on the NO side have been consistently spouting up till now, e.g. we won’t get Doctor Who after independence, etc.,
Foghorn Leghorn Michael Carbuncle is best ignored. the man is an ignorant Prat.
He may well be one but how do we nullify his efforts?
Foghorn Leghorn Michael Carbuncle is best ignored. the man is an ignorant Prat.
i agree although i love foghorn leghorn
Comical Ali Carmichael is probably the worst Secretary of State Scatland has ever seen. The man is a buffoon.
I rather like the title Minister for Portsmouth – think that sums him up.
Since this thread is not too serious I can be a tad pedantic. I am surprised it’s not been highlighted before by others. Use capitals please.
TARDIS is an acronym. Not a clever one but thats the BBC for you.
it shows the high esteem our only tory in scotland (mundell )is held in when the post of sec of state is given to a buffoon.
The historic term for a Scottish secretary of state is a Puddin’
Does this mean that Ian Davidson is a Dalek?
Carmichael, a man who said Dr Who wouldn’t be available in an independent Scotland, even though its widely available around the world.
Now who’s talking P*SH!
No doubt Carmichael and Co, will try and rubbish the whitepaper 5 minutes after its release on Tuesday, all 670 pages of it, without actually reading the bloody thing.
As for the picture, its a clear illustration, that their more space between Carmichaels ears than there is in the Tardis.
Inside the TURDIS Michael Moore has regenerated as a big smelly keech.
Westminster’s latest Scottish Turd Lord, Carmichael, emerges from his chauffeur-driven Turdis. He’s using it to transport him to a future where Lib Dems will cease to exist.
Another killer cartoon, Chris. I love it.
Seems Alastair Carmichael is quite rightfully going to be mocked wherever he goes. This independence thing is far more important than a mock-Scot like Carmichael`s opinion. If you are going to insult the people of your country, expect nothing less than utter disdain in return.
Can you imagine a politician in an independent Scotland getting a go in the Tardis?
“Punching above our weight”.
Looking forward to the launch on Tuesday and the screeching and squealing from the Unionist rabble. Started sending stuff by email about eight months to people who knew little about the referendum or indeed our Independent prospects. Started as two, two more today – now up to nine (7 confirmed YES- today’s 2 need info) and likely they will be spreading the stuff further. Keep at it – people want to know the truth. I always make a point about the media, print and broadcast, not being reliable.
He’s just come back after seeing the referendum result.
And then we await BT’s considered, point-by-point response – what’s the betting it’ll be the kind of white paper that is soft, strong, and very very long, and contains precisely nothing?
He says he is only doing his job, heard that before somewhere ! But a job he himself said should be abolished, don’t worry Carmichael, it will be. No credibility whatsoever!
I see Labour has appointed a Marxist Gray Allan as chairman of the Falkirk constituency.
Looking forward to Tuesday and the information contained in the white paper. The unionists have had a go at it this weekend in the media and will try and further denigrate the launch within a few minutes of hitting the street.
Once the dust settles people will either read for themselves or come to sites like this to see an interpretation of what’s on offer. The ‘better togethers’ have not produced anything other than information designed to cause fear and alarm, but we shall see another future which is much more hopeful.For example.
The Falkirk Labour activists look older than a Time Lord.
I remember thinking during the televised debate between Nicola and Michael Moore that his heart wasn’t in it. Perhaps his conscious? It would appear that The Minister for Portsmouth has no such qualms.
Does he have a heart even?
Labour must be be wishing they had a TARDIS to go back in time to change a Milliband’s appointment of Flowers to the Co-op Bank., though it might not have stopped this, from the Observer today:
“At least a third of the £850,000 annual donation(Co-op) given to Ed Milliband’s MPs is to be cut, with one senior Labour figure admitting that he believed all funding from the mutual could soon be stopped.”
I wonder how this affects Lamont and Scottish Labour? They keep lecturing the SG on economic plans, but they couldn’t foresee this. But then Alistair Darling has major form on not foreseeing Bank problems.
How long before Labour voters wake up?
The true worrying part is for other customers. Also in the Observer: “The development comes as the Observer can reveal that local authorities across Britain have been warned by financial advisers to urgently remove their money from Co-op bank accounts in the wake of the recent crises.”
Davidson, a Dalek? Does that make us all Cybermen, and wummin
Judging by the performance of the No campaign/MSM so far expect to hear yet more talk of “black holes” and “fantasy economics” from Tuesday onwards. They will work themselves into a lather.
The Cartoon:”I’ve just seen it. It’s pish”.
Is he talking about last night’s Dr Who 50th Anniversary not-very-special Special?
cynicalHighlander 2 6.11pm He’s just come back after seeing the referendum result.
It’s great to have some comic relief after so much negative stuff in the past couple of days – even here at WoS (Cindie’s heart-warming and encouraging piece excepted).
Make that past couple of months… er… years… centuries… from the No Scotland side.
Humour can be a wonderful weapon, though I’m not sure if we should be mocking someone who “doesn’t have all the Moomins in the valley”, as we say in Finland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin
Looking forward to Tuesday’s launch of the White Paper, and popcorn at the ready for Mr Carmichael’s TV debate with Nicola on Wednesday.
I have just watched the ITV news. Johann Lamont was given free rein to attack the white paper which she has not read. There was no rep from the Scottish Government featured to balance it.
I have just complained by email (as below) and phoned 0207 883 3000 (ask for News Desk) to verbally complain viewerservices [at] itv [dot] com
@ Dave McEwan Hill,
I didn’t see it, but watching JL attack something she has not seen is bet left unchallenged 😉
Watch the Scottish Government be concise and informative next week. You will not see much rational behavior from opposition next week as they do not want to have informed debate/information in the public domain a that risk people thinking for themselves.
The SNP are putting forward a lengthy paper that lays out an in-depth and honest case explaining why it is better for Scotland’s voters to opt for independence – Cue the Brit Nat panic!
For all their feeble and negative utterances on how we are better together, the Unionists know they cannot put forward an honest case to defend the Union, or show good cause why Scotland’s people should opt to remain tied to it.
Pretty much in the same way as they could not replicate the rally we held in Edinburgh on 21 September last. Lol
The Panelbase poll today gives NO=47%, YES=38% and D/K=15%.
I am sure one of the previous TNS polls (perhaps Scottish Skier can confirm) had NO=47%, YES=25% and D/K=28%.
On the basis of the poll out today then it seems that ALL the Don’t Knows have moved over to YES while the NO figure has remained the same.
Long may it continue.
“The Panelbase poll today gives NO=47%, YES=38% and D/K=15%.
I am sure one of the previous TNS polls (perhaps Scottish Skier can confirm) had NO=47%, YES=25% and D/K=28%.”
Panelbase polls and TNS polls are apples and oranges.
thank you kindly Proudscot. Now I get it.
I never watched a single chapter. Will buy the book instead.
The white paper is going to provide sites like WoS and yes groups all over Scotland with the ammo they require to convert all those undecideds. The media will rubbish it but by now I’m sure most people are bored of that.
I look forward to seeing wat you guys do with all that ammo.
I realise that but if Project Fear can compare apples and oranges then so the hell can I.
I’m surprised that BT haven’t just published their critique of the White Paper today. They are not going to like a word of it so it is a foregone conclusion they will say how awful it is.
Eyes down for a fool House of Commons in the White Paper Bingo;
I’m looking forward to BT’s Paper, that will enlighten the people with their vision for Scotland.
They can call it Nightmare on Downing Street!
In response, BT should be required to produce a “Black Paper”, highlighting what we can expect following a NO vote.
This morning on Politics Scotland show Nicola was asked something along the lines of …do you not think 600 odd pages will just befuddle the electorate ?
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t.. the MSM are going to get one hell of a backlash.
Do we know whereabouts in Glasgow this WP launch is being held? I’m sure lots of folk would like to turn out to welcome it.
@Luigi That’s the way to go.
Anybody know how many billions we are to have chopped off our Barnett between next September and 2020 when the austerity stops?
“Well now Yes have told us what to expect, how about No doing the same? Things are not going to carry on as now, we already know that they are going to chop £__ billion out of the Scottish budget if we say No. I think No should tell us what that means.”
Isn’t it remarkable that none of this WP has been leaked?
OT. Although not with the same predictive accuracy as Chris, as always, excellent cartoon, I take this opportunity to remind readers of the possibly spectacular appearance in 6 days or so, of comet Ison.
If you recall, I posted the possibility of this here, some months ago.
Anyhoo, it is due to reach perihelion in 4 days time when it will be closer to the Sun than one solar diameter.
If it does not get ‘eaten’ by the Sun but disintegrates such that the ejecta completes the orbit of the Sun and carries on along its return path, it should present one of the most spectacular comets of our lifetime.
As said before this would only be really visible a couple of days later i.e. St Andrews day.
There are ifs and buts involved and it may ‘appear’ a little earlier.
Comets have long been regarded as omens, good or bad.
Here’s hoping it is bad for the No campaign and good for the Yes.
How many grand parents would vote to saddle their grand kids with £27000 of dept So they can say they are British.
How many grand parents would want the NHS reduced to the English standards (60pc) privatised.
How many would vote to end free bus passes for the elderly.
How many would vote to increase taxes and reduce services for their families.
If being able to say you are British is that important then go ahead. Hope you can look your family in the eye and say I DID THE BEST FOR ME! FU I’m a proud Scot.
@Chic McGregor –
A comet! Great.
All sorts of weird shit happens when dem fellas turn up – if it appears on Friday night then we’ll see Alistair Darling on the Saturday with jet-black hair and white eyebrows, Johann Lamont will have turned into Ursula Andress and that ‘MAD’ gap between Willie Rennie’s teeth will have been filled-in.
My elderly mother’s Sunday Post reports that “Brazen” MPs have given themselves an extra week’s holiday to campaign in the Scottish referendum campaign so that they will only work for 145 days at Westminster next year.
No wonder Westminster MPs are so hostile to independence as they will be out of a job after a YES vote in 2014 and their cushy retirement part time job at £300 a day in House of Lords will no longer be available to augment their generous pension.
Sunday Times reports that each Westminster MP costs the taxpayer £600,000 a year and that total cost of House of Commons and House of Lords comes to £480 million a year.
So that’s another £40 million pounds we will save after independence.
I think it’s the Science Centre in Glasgow, Ian
@Ian Brotherhood – I heard it was the SCCC.
@Jeannie & Bill C-
Either way, he should be able to raise a V for victory sign to the assembled camera crews – while he’s got his back turned to Pacific Quay.
Comet Ison, if it survives its encounter with the sun will be in the pre dawn sky low in the east rising a little further each morning throughout December.
For those interested like.
Peter Curran has produced a transcript of the Debater starring in last week’s FMQs. It’s well worth a read (moridura.blogspot.co.uk). What’s worrying is she’ll soon have professionally produced guidance on how to run a country.
That was painful reading after watching and listening to what she said on Thursday. Excellent comments and analysis by Peter though.
It does make a mockery of her Debater of the Year award when she can’t fully respond to an answer. She visibly panics when she does gets an answer and her thought process seems to be ‘Oh Christ he’s said something I don’t understand so I better make a wee snide joke’ and then its back to reading from the script again even though its no longer relevant to the debate.
A part of me sometimes thinks that she was solely elected to help undermine the Parliament but then you look back at Iain Gray and realise they really are that bad.
Funny enough I was speaking to one today, he told me the other week than both he and his daughter would be voting no, I replied that I did not imagine him being a staunch Rangers fan to vote yes, but was surprised that his daughter who hopes to go to uni in 2014 would vote no, he asked why and I explained the consequences of a No vote and printed him off various stuff from this site about the possible withdrawal of the Barnet Formula, Anyway I mentioned to him the morning about the Sunday Herald leader and he said he was definitely Voting No and didn’t care if his daughter had to pay 9k per year for her Uni Education as she would be paying it not him!!!!
AIRDRIE YES group will e giving me a load of SNP news Papers for Tues to be handed out at a certain train station at 7 am, BT are intending to do the same Ill be there first , any way anyody got some Wings / SSP / leaflets I could put in the papers I can collect Im doing to stints morning early evening a few thou leaflets of other Indy partners most welcome
REV, as time is short could you please , act as go between, or give my telephone number to other Wingers to get in contact with me .Thanks
Thanks. Just read it.
Gardham seems to have been pretty fair, apart from using the weather forecast to try and cast a shadow over it all.
You get the sense that he really is quite looking forward to seeing the WP – it’s just such a pity that, in the wee picture of him that appears with the by-line, he looks like he’s trying to swallow a wasp. He should leave that to Lamont – she’s got it down to a T.
Ian Brotherhood, Its def the science centre , any bodys going make up some signs on BBC / MSM BIAS for the Camera,s, I might be there, I have a appointment so need to see if I can skip it.
Would love to be there, but not sure if I can make it – would have to jiggle bits and bobs (which I’m always happy to do, especially when I’ve had more than five pints) but it would be tight.
Are you definitely going?
Give to me the life I love
Let the lave go by me
Give me the stars and heavens above
And the byway nie me
Bed in the bush with stars to see
Bread I dip in the river
Theres a life for man like me, theres a life for Ever
Lets see how the ConLabDem referendum coalition will play their in depth 5 min analysis of the WP.
Correct me if Im wrong, but since we’ve been listening to the same old shit from them for some time, sadly, might it go somehting like this ?
Labour response –
“It’s all Tory policy big business focussed and a distraction for the common folk, it will make them think and we at Labour dont need Scotland to think, we just need them to vote Labour as normal; like they did in Dunfermline, to see real change like we’re organising in Falkirk; we’re going for a ‘Nothing for Something’ society here at Labour”
Tory press release –
” Typical Alex Salmond leftist economic pie in the sky figures that don’t add up since they did not come from the very very respected IFS (did we say very ?). These figures do not look 50 yrs into the future so cant be trusted. Its all based on very very volatile UK North Sea oil revenue’s (rule Brittania) and thats nearly done and whats left is the wrong kind of oil anyway – its that bad oil.
LibDem news flash –
“This is a very bad report, for a start there are several commas missing ans some paragraphs too long. Too many good ideas and honesty for our liking and we noticed a major flaw; we think its Shetlands oil so there”
Foghorn Leghorn: ‘Ya tongue’s flappin’, but no noise is comin’ outta ya big mouth!’
Yep. We’ll be seeing plenty of that on Tuesday evening, nae doot aboot it.
On the White Paper..
Will be interesting to see the percentage pro rata of ‘Scottish'(i.e. British) media at the launch when compared to international media.
The scary thing is that I could hear the Labour response delivered in true lamentable SLAB style by Ms Lamont: her accent, her intonation, her hesitations and cadences, down to her slight speech impediment. It just rang so true, just the thing they would say. Scary or what!
Caught the end of Press Preview on Sky News and they were discussing a story in the Daily Mail about Karie Murphy, Unite union, Falkirk. I think she was using her son in some way regarding vote fixing.
It is on again at 12.30am after midnight. Very serious allegations getting made, should be worth a watch.
I have looked for links but cant find any.
@ Chic McGregor (9.48pm) and others
Ooo, a comet! To perhaps coincide with St Andrew’s Day! An omen or what?
I’m a bit of an amateur astronomer and I’ve been very partial to comets ever since I was a wee lass and some comet or another was visible and I got told the story how my grandpa saw Halley’s Comet when he was a wee lad and might get to see it again – one of the few who’d see it twice in their lifetime.
My grandpa saw Halleys Comet as a young schoolboy in 1910 (their teacher told them to watch the sky), and then again in 1982 as an old man, a few years before he died. My other grandpa also saw it as a boy but he died before 1982. My grandmas were small kids in 1910 (so they don’t remember 1910 Halley’s) and by 1982 one of the them was too gaga. The other one watched it with us, her kids and grandkids, my uncle brought his telescope and we had a bit of a family do about it, especially grandpa seeing Halley’s twice.
In 1997, I taught my friends this dance, the Hale-Bopp, and showed them the comet in the night sky – it was visible even in light-polluted cities!
So, let’s wait and see what Ison does!
So THAT’S how they’re able to rubbish anything and everything the Scottish Government puts out before it’s been released to the public…
@ Ian Brotherhood.
I was just about to head for my bed when I read the Jolo / Ursula Andress comment. Now hours later I can’t get the image of Johan staggering out of the sea at Saltcoats in a string semmit bikini and nae teeth. This is the stuff of nightmares, but then so is (so-called Scottish) Labour.
Saw Jolo on STV earlier this evening, what a brass neck that wummin has! Oh, and where was the balance? The Unionists allowed to spout all the pish they want as per and no-one from the Yes side to knock it back down. We go on about the hatefully biased BBC, but STV are really no better. Hingin’s too good for the lot of them.
The Unionists allowed to spout all the pish they want as per and no-one from the Yes side to knock it back down.
I think that a lot of people are noticing the difference in tone and message between ‘Yes’ and ‘No’. They are also wondering what ‘no’ is about.
am sure one of the previous TNS polls (perhaps Scottish Skier can confirm) had NO=47%, YES=25% and D/K=28%.”
TNS No share
‘No change in polls’ my erse.
Ignore TNS yes (face to face shy indy factor as talked about by the SoS AC recently for polls).
Vince Cable has suddenly realised what the Banks have been up to since deregulation and the 1990’s. The Tory bankers.
HMRC not fit for purpose. Pursue small businesses while multinationals defraud and tax evade.
The LibDems are toast.
Whoever writes Lamentables script is a total turn off. Most folk turn off.
Carmichael is the same. A total turn off.
They wonder why folk don’t engage with Politics.
Student loans depend on household income.
A sliding scale. The parents might need more commitment than they realise for the child’s university aspirations. £9000 fees the child might end up not getting a large enough student loan.
Student fees/debt are now adding to the cost of living decline in the UK.
Guardian Columnist says he would vote YES…..if he had a vote
Oh no…Has the White Paper been doctored?
Get your coat..
Darling and Carmichael says we would be ‘cads and bounders’ if we (Scotland) walked away with no debt but also tell us we still can’t join a currency union.The best of both worlds is getting mighty thin as a reason for sticking around.
Lot of gum bumping about how much work there will be arranging the mechanics of independence. “There won’t be time to do ordinary politics” is the cry. Absolute nonsense. The vast majority of the work will be done by Civil Servants…the ones writing all these papers for Osborne et al at the moment. As for Ministers – perhaps they will earn their corn for once.
John Harris – the Guardian, would vote Yes.
The Dam is breaking. The MSM is breaking ranks, at last.
Call me Dave
Indeed but if Westminster plays hard ball and blocks Scotland at every turn and for every membership then we would be a de facto new country and not a successor to any thing..including the debt. They cannot have their cake and eat it. To start afresh in everything would have its down sides but on the other hand not being saddled with £115b of debt at today’s values would be a considerable upside and make Scotland an attractive investment.
Ian Brotherhood, Im doing Airdrie station snp papers at 6.30 -7.30 I had another appointment for 11am Imtrying to get hold of the person just now to cancell, If I can fit it in I will be there I know I said I was champin at the bit to make up for my illness holding me back from doing more , but I can saddle 2 horses I canny ride them, but to any body going for defo make up some signs use the media as and where
Rev, we need to get a HOT AIR BALLOON award,every week,with photo,s of the hand over to the winner.
due to the constant and incessant bias of the media, especially the state sponsored BBC, there must be some route to declaring the election tainted, biased and unfair in the event of a close no victory. Is there any international body that could look at this situation or could be appealed to for guidance?
I was at a video conference last week for a semi-medical board thing, and there’s always a high up civil servant there to keep a rough eye on what all these medics are doing with our money. Anyway, he popped up and said that the SG had tasked civil servants to ask everyone their departments worked with to ask for responses to the White Paper & to say how it might affect them.
Shows, I think, that the WP will not be set in stone, but that the SG will be carefully listening and considering responses and working to resolve any major concerns that arise.
Two items caught my eye in Today’s Herald, both on the same topic. A Mr. Parkin writes to say that SNP Ministers have not been in touch with the DWP to discuss pensions and our old friend Foulkes has dragged himself away from the House of Lords bar to send a letter to AS, but (in an interview?) says that the SG has not not had any discussions on key points with several Westminster departments. Pardon me if I’m wrong but did not David Cameron ban all departments from discussing “the future”with the SG.?
Papadocx, wishful thinking there papy, West/m govs hav there hand in every shit bucket in every country you care to name, We would end up with the Robert Mugabe Truth Foundation as scrutineers lol
There is indeed an organisation that monitors elections etc. The OSCE. From their web site:
“As part of its democratization activities, the OSCE carries out election assistance projects in the lead-up to or following elections. Over the past 15 years, the organization has developed an observation methodology that is at the forefront of international efforts in this field. In recent years, the OSCE has also published a number of handbooks on election-related topics, including domestic observer groups and the participation of women in the electoral process.”
However, they can only monitor a referendum if requested to by the government of the country. In this case that would be Westminster.
Can you imagine them doing so when they won’t even ask the EU for a clarifying statement? So, no, unfortunately we are on our own.
Seanair,I had a problem with ,ESA because of my condition at the time / & getting cut of from beneifit I contacted Wee Alex Neil my MSP, within 5 mins of phoneing AN local office AN was on the phone to me from Holyrood ,he sent e mails to DWP London money was in my account on Monday, he forwards all correspondence to me, As quoted from DWP ,
This issue relates to a matter which remains the responsibility of the Westminster Parliament and has not beenDevolved ,I would be grateful if you would advise your constituent that any future correspondence on this issue or on any other Non Devolved matter should be addressed to his Wesrtminster MP. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify the position. Yours sincerely Jason Feeney C B E.
Pamela Nash is the local M P ah wouldnt trust her to give me the rite time she would have to convene a labour committee first , Mister C B E will be getting a reply from me, I Will MANDATE whoever I want, My brains working at the moment, I wil halenge this cunt on law, in regards the Mental health act, who is demeemed a agent , hes gonna get Ro
RONNIED, an ma friends ken whit that means, dont fekn mess wie me , with Rules , Superiour Intalect, for every rule theres another rule that counters DICKS, that cunt better have his scout knot badge up to date lol
That pic of Karie Murphy, is a product of the A Darling girning convention, she should be in the army leading the charges, am own ma toes oota here,
serious note, will the truth ever be reveled, anither Yes it happened , but theres a lot of rocks in a quarry, Police Scotlandshire said, or did they ?
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