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The privilege of stupid

Posted on November 20, 2013 by

Even as a supporter of independence with little interest in their wellbeing, sometimes you just can’t help slumping face-first onto your desk in sheer helpless despair at the spectacular idiocy of the Scottish Parliament’s clownish, dim-witted opposition parties. Scotland, to coin a phrase, deserves better.

headdesk2

Today’s demonstration appears, as it so often does, in the Telegraph.

The core of the story is contained in the first two lines:

“Instead of unveiling the Scottish Government’s White Paper at Holyrood, the First Minister is planning a glitzy launch event on Tuesday in Glasgow for the world’s TV cameras and newspapers.

Furious opposition parties were told they would have to wait until the following day to ask questions about the document.”

Let’s just think about that for a second.

The White Paper is said to be over 500 pages long. It’s been a closely-guarded secret, with no leaks appearing in the press as yet. Barring mishaps, the first sight of it anyone will get will be on Tuesday morning. And yet, we learn slightly later in the piece that the Unionist parties are screaming and bawling that they won’t be given a chance to ask “questions” about it until… Tuesday afternoon.

We don’t know about you, readers, but if we were taking a test based on a 500-page book, especially one packed full of dry statistical and policy detail rather than being a high-octane spy thriller or such, we’d want more than three or four hours to read and analyse the entire thing so we could raise intelligent questions about it.

(In fact, we’re pretty sure that we COULDN’T read a 500-pager in that amount of time even if you put a gun to our head. It takes us six or seven hours to get through an average novel with more like 300 pages, and we’re pretty fast readers.)

So when Labour’s heroically witless benchwarmer Paul Martin rages that “the Scottish government are acting with incredible arrogance. They are behaving more like an elected dictatorship than a democratically elected government”, what he’s actually doing is demanding the right to make a public idiot of himself by vitriolically attacking a document that everyone knows he can’t possibly have read.

And when John Lamont of the Conservatives fumes at the scheduling – “This latest stunt shows nothing but contempt and disrespect towards the parliamentary process” – what he’s actually saying is:

“We’ve debased the Parliamentary process so much with our kneejerk oppositionism that giving us the time to know what we’re talking about before we speak is a despicable insult to the way we conduct ourselves“.

Since it clearly matters so little to the opposition that they have any information before they rear up and start bleating in the chamber, why not just jump the gun and devote the entirety of tomorrow’s First Minister’s Questions to explaining how rubbish the White Paper is? THAT’d show Fuhrer Salmond and his jumped-up SeparationStaffel!

And it still wouldn’t be any more cretinous than publicly demanding to “debate” something when you haven’t even finished the first chapter.

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    122 to “The privilege of stupid”

    1. Macart says:

      No I’m struggling with any comment which doesn’t include FFS this morning.
       
      They are truly beyond redemption or in fact relevance. I want to be inclusive, turn the other cheek, do the right thing and hear the other side, but for the life of me comments like those of Martin and Lamont make it hard. 🙁

    2. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Has Johann Lamont had a sex change or worse are there two of them?

    3. Craig says:

      It often frustrates me to think that these idiotic outbursts may hold some sway with the voting public, particularly when parroted back by the MSM. Then I consider the consummate ease with which the idiocy is exposed and realise the mud they fling must be bouncing back. Only the dimmest of the population could fall for it IMO.

    4. The Man in the Jar says:

      I am sure that Better Together already have their questions ready for the white paper. I mean you don`t expect them to actually read it do you? 

    5. Taranaich says:

      I’ll be going to the Scottish Parliament as part of Gie’s Peace, where I might get a good look at these individuals in person. I’m looking forward to meeting some, but there are obviously also some I’m not so keen on meeting.
       
      But yes, this is pretty breathtaking even considering the opposition’s history of knee-jerking.

    6. FletcherOfSaltoun says:

      “demanding the right to make an idiot of himself” – that is brilliant – talk about head slumping on the desk because body is convulsed with laughter – just magic

    7. seoc says:

      The original idea of ‘political opposition’ was to hold the Government of the day to account over accuracy and quality of their decisions.

      To do so, it is necessary to have a grasp of the topics.

      ‘Opposition’ today seems more like rent-a-mob than ‘Our (well paid) Servants’ acting on our behalf.

    8. David Milligan Lvss says:

      That is a bit of a joke isn’t it?

      I am running a white paper event on Scotland’s Big Yes/No? Debate.  The Paper comes out on the 26th and we wont start debating until the 1st of december to give folk a chance to read it.  Even then I don’t imagine that there will more than a handful of people who can converse in “white paper”.

      It should be an excellent event and one that is a true “learning” experience for all concerned, both pro-indy and unionists alike.
      Kindest regards,
      David Milligan Lvss 

       

    9. cadgers says:

      That lot sound as if they are still at school, nursery school. Do they actually stop and listen to themselves, or think first?

    10. There are many words to describe the Telegraph – fair & balanced aren’t among them

    11. MochaChoca says:

      In fairness I suppose they will be delegated a few* pages each. And will then come together to compare and rate the points in order of degree of ‘fantasy’ or some similar scale.

      That’s what I’d do, In fact it may be worth organising a few of the analytical minds on here to do so to get as quick an overview as possible.
       
      *number of pages detemined by reading ability

    12. Marian says:

      The sad truth is that the unionists and their proxies in the MSM and BBC have already prepared their attacks on the White Paper and so actually reading it it doesn’t matter to them.

    13. Craig P says:

      What you don’t understand Rev, and frustratingly for our representatives, what many people out there don’t understand, is just how important MSPs are. Imagine, a whole day’s news cycle given over to the white paper without us knowing what John Lamond has to say about it? On top of that, have the government even given a moment’s thought as to how the BBC will know how to report it, if they haven’t consulted the opposition first? Surely I am not the only one who sees that this is a gross breach of procedure. 

    14. Annibale says:

      Let’s be kind to the hard of thinking here – they may just have wanted to question the colour of the cover. A good – going argument about that would grab time in the MSM so that the SG’s positive message couldn’t get out!

    15. auslander says:

      Why even read it? It will obviously just be a copy of Mein Kampf with Scotland cut an pasted where it used to say Germany.
       
      (Actually, if I had more time and inclination I’d be trying to pass off a modified copy of such to the more gullible members of BT et al.)

    16. GrahamB says:

      Maybe we can’t read as quickly as our betters, we are too stupid after all! That nice Mr Carmichael is such a fast reader that he was able to comment on yesterday’s financial paper (all 200 or 300 pages of it) within minutes of its publication.

      Hopefully someone, probably not from the EBC but someone on a discussion panel, can ask a BT panelist for comment on a specific part of the White Paper and then ask if they have read the WP when it becomes obvious they are just spouting pre-written ‘facts’ (and keep asking to embarrass them).

    17. Fudgefase says:

      Oh come on. They’ve had their questions (ooops, sorry – statements) ready for months! They don’t need to read it to know that it’s “full of holes” “doesn’t add up” “recipe for disaster” “SNP vanity project” “disaster for Scotland” “economically unviable” “completely dependant on non-existant oil reserves” “scandalous” “frighteningly naive” etc etc. need I go on. PS – I suggest a game of ‘fairty bingo’ for every phrase that gets used!

    18. Robert Kerr says:

      Perhaps the opposition parties should have taken their role seriously and not gone out of their way to belittle the Scottish Parliament and by association the Scottish People.
       
      Their ongoing pantomime on FMQ each week I find disgusting and an affront to democracy!
       
      Anger is building.

    19. Doug Daniel says:

      “what he’s actually doing is demanding the right to make an idiot of himself by vitriolically attacking a document that he can’t possibly have read.”
       
      To be fair, I doubt he’d be able to read it if he was given a month. It’s likely to have some big words in it.

    20. faolie says:

      Really? I mean really? Are these tossers really going to read the white paper and ask intelligent questions about it? Or are they instead, and as usual, just going to shout meaningless stuff about THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE GOVERNMENT HAS SPENT ON PRODUCING THIS USELESS WHITE PAPER INSTEAD OF RUNNING THE COUNTRY!
       
      See if I’m right.

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Has Johann Lamont had a sex change or worse are there two of them?”

      Johann Lamont and John Lamont are two different people. One’s a nasty Tory intent on attacking the poor at every opportunity, and the other one finish this joke yourself.

    22. GrahamB says:

      Robert Kerr at 9.32:
      I suggest you don’t listen to or watch the monthly Scottish Questions disgrace at the Big Hoose in London – it won’t do your health or anger management any good!

    23. Atypical_Scot says:

      The FM should go to Holyrood in the morning. With a ruler and a copy of the pare for everyone, and if anyone even looks up from the paper before they have finished reading it, take the ruler over their hands. He may also want to ensure he has a pair of Hush Puppies on, some may still be reading on Friday.

    24. The numbers don’t add up, full of pie in the sky assertions, waste of paper and officials time etc etc.

    25. Norrie says:

      Question to Deputy First Minister, “Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah”
      Answer from Deputy First Minister, ” I refer you to page 346 paragraph 4 sub section 6″.
      Question to Deputy First Minister, “Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah”
      Answer from Deputy First Minister, ” I refer you to page 57 paragraph 12 sub section 2″.
      And so on.

    26. MajorBloodnok says:

      Of course what they want is to shoot it down and get the soundbites out into the ether before anyone else has had a chance to read it and so might be equiped to challange the mendacious pish that they will come up with (and have been preparing for months).
       
      What depresses me most about the antics of the opposition and the BBC particularly is that their sole objective is to drown out and stifle anything that the Scottish Government has to say, because they know that when people are given the facts and it is explained to them what Scottish Independence is actually about they tend to move to the YES side.
       
      However, the White Paper will be a slow burner and will inform the debate up until September so truth will out one way or another, whatever spoiling tactics our Unionist chums have in their armoury.

    27. Greannach says:

      I think the fact that the likes of Johann Lamont is in charge of the Labour Party and the party chooses the likes of Paul Martin to represent constituents in Parliament is part of a strategy which started once devolution came in of the formerly largest party in the country deliberately choosing benchwarmers in order to show the population that if their likes were the best that even the great and once dominant Labour Party could find, what chance would Scotland as an independent country have of finding capable people to run it. I don’t think the strategy has worked, because the Labour Party haven’t succeeded in undermining democracy, just themselves.

    28. Tamson says:

      @fudgefase – we need those Bingo Cards now! How about it,  Rev?

    29. Horacesaysyes says:

      This highlights the same issue as ‘pairing’ does – politicians have no interest in studying issues and listen to debates, and then forming an opinion. They already know their opinion straight away, have no intention of changing it, and just want the chance to rant.

    30. MochaChoca says:

      “The numbers don’t add up, full of pie in the sky assertions, waste of paper and officials time etc etc.”
       
      I’d wager a headline of “WHITE PAPER ELEPHANT”

      edit: scorethrough doesn’t work on here does it?

    31. HandandShrimp says:

      I am absolutely sanguine about this. I have every confidence that the opposition parties will be as uninformed, incoherent and ignorant on Wednesday as they would have been on Tuesday. I really can’t understand their impatient to display their incompetence.

    32. Norrie says:

      MochaChoca
      White elephant /Trojan horse

    33. Illy says:

      Well, the white paper is looking to point out all the elephants in the room.
       
      Am I mixing my metaphors too much?

    34. The Man in the Jar says:

      Anyone fancy a side-bet on which opposition MSP will be first to complain about the lack of detail in the white paper?

    35. Norrie says:

      The Man in a Jar
      I’ll get started on the Cartoon.

    36. Dex says:

      “Heroically witless benchwarmer” has to be my new favourite phrase

    37. Gillie says:

      Isn’t this SNP government always being accused by Labour of ignoring Glasgow.
       
      Labour clearly doesn’t like the prospect of the SNP planting the Saltire in the heart of Glasgow because this is where the real referendum campaign starts. This white paper is the starting gun. 

    38. Juteman says:

      Doesn’t this prove that they have already read it? GCHQ?

    39. Gillie says:

      So which poor sod is going to have to read and explain this white paper to Johann Lamont?
       
      You get the feeling she would struggle with a Mills & Boon paperback. 

    40. Alastair Naughton says:

      @ Fudgefase:
      “PS – I suggest a game of ‘fairty bingo’ for every phrase that gets used!”
       
      Hilarious!!!!!! 😉

    41. creigs1707repeal says:

      Find something, ANYTHING, with which to beat the SNP government. Doesn’t matter how rdiculous it is, or how stupid it makes us look just beat them with it and the BBC & MSM will ensure its all over the headlines.
      FFS grow up you lot and give us an Opposition worthy of the title.
       
      YES Scotland.

    42. Gillie says:

      What the opposition will say is;
       
      1. This white paper is pure fantasy, a series of fairy stories and wish lists.
       
      2. Everyone knows that the Scots are genetically incapable of transforming their own lives for the better.
       
      3. Anyway we have fecked the UK economy so Scotland will always stay poor and dependent. 

    43. Thistle says:

      OT
      “The Economic Case for Scottish Independence” by Business for Scotland

      Join us for BfS presentation and Q & A session from The Glad Cafe & LIVE STREAM and ask your own questions online or ask them in person!

      BfS are branching out from promoting the case for YES to business and putting it to the public, so please give your time and help promote this event.

      On Tuesday 26th November 2013 join us online or at The Glad Cafe, Glasgow for a presentation and Q & A session with representatives from ‘Business For Scotland’ (Michelle Thomson, Ivan McKee, Eric McLean)
      Find out the real figures and have your say on independence…

      Event: https://www.facebook.com/events/1476681122556200/

      Brought to you by Scottish Independence Live Events
      https://www.facebook.com/ScottishIndependenceLiveEvents

    44. MochaChoca says:

      I kind of worry that the Swinney leaked paper a while back just seems to have been leaked with no apparent concerns about the fact that it was actually leaked.
       
      Do they know who leaked it? was it known to have been leaked before it was used to deflect news on the day of the GERS figures release? are there other potential ‘bad news’ papers leaked and sitting in reserve to defuse other ‘good news’ days?
       
      What I’m getting at is it possible that the White paper will be / has been leaked by the same source, so that the BT mob can optimise the timing/content of their response?
       
      Shouldn’t a leak be arranged to known friendlies to make this a level playing field? 

    45. Big Drone says:

      …………… but there is an elephant in the room!    Oh sorry that’s ………………… (feel free to fill in the blank!)

    46. Sneddon says:

      500 pages! NAts hate trees shock! That’s about the level I’m expecting from the opposition.  If I was a NO voyer I’d be cringing constantly at their nonsense.

    47. Grant_M says:

      Come on folks, be fair. They only want to see what the White Paper looks like so they can have a leaked “Top Secret” version ready.

    48. edulis says:

      This is about the primacy of parliament. On this, the likes of Paul Martin has missed the bus. It is the people who will decide this issue not the representatives in parliament; and remember, this is a world event. The eyes of the world will be on Scotland as it seeks to determine its own future, peacefully and democratically.
      Paul Martin and his ilk have form. Party first and the privilege for the few that goes with that.
       

    49. Macart says:

      ‘Course their approach isn’t exactly a shock, its not as if they’re actually going to see merit in any of the the white paper’s content. It literally spells doom for their dreams of an ermine dreamland. This white paper is for the people. This is the detail many have looked for from day one. The opposition are going to spend the next ten months trying to take it apart and spinning ever more furiously in the process because they are being forced to debate the paper and not scattershot, bullshit scare stories.
       
      They aren’t going to debate merit or political philosophy. They aren’t going to debate self determination or people before party. In fact they are not going to debate at all. They are simply going to scream sound bites in as high a volume as possible in an attempt to close down the debate. They are going to try and limit media access to the SG as usual and any coverage the white paper gets will be coloured big time. Its going to be the job of the SG, YES campaign and any and all independence support to get that info into as many homes as possible, because there will be no help from anywhere else IMO.

    50. theycan'tbeserious says:

      The nationalist/MSM fear is that by the White Paper being released by AS in the lime light, that they cannot just dismiss it and sweep it under the carpet. It will be there for the WORLD to see, and know doubt comment on, and they are going to have to deal with it and be seen to be not just critical but constructive!  The people of Scotland and the wider world are watching! Game On!
       
      Shrewd move…well done AS! 

    51. PickledOnionSupper says:

      Yes indeed. One thing that does worry me about independence is the poor quality of the opposition in Scotland. We do need an opposition who can actually hold the government to account rather than just attempting silly political points-scoring (and not even doing that particularly successfully!).

      The optimist in me hopes that it’ll all be sorted out after we vote Yes, with some more able politicians moving back – but then I can’t actually think of that many potential candidates…

    52. msean says:

      Two words for lablibcon-bedroom tax. They thought it up,brought it in and keep bringing it up and failed to even attend in an  attempt scrap it.Attempts at changing history won’t work,we’ll remember who is on the peoples side in the booth.

    53. Gillie says:

      The point is that the Scottish people are sovereign not the Scottish parliament, and certainly not Westminster.
       
      Glasgow is an ideal place to present the case for independence to the Scottish people.

    54. Fairliered says:

      As soon as Paul Martin opens his mouth, Nicola should agressively wave the White Paper in front of him and shout repeatedly “have you read it all, what is on page 347” without giving him a chance to reply. After all, SLAB seem to like those tactics.

    55. Dcanmore says:

      They don’t have to read the White Paper, the standard reaction will be “this is nothing more than fantasy, offering promises that can’t be delivered blah blah blah… the Scottish people deserve better than Alex Salmond’s dream of owning his own kingdom blah blah blah”.
      And that is before the first page is turned. What they actually fear is the Scottish electorate being informed.

    56. orkers says:

      It isn’t a Bill being presented to the Parliament at Holyrood so why would it have to be revealed at that place?
      Westminster has the general rule that changes of policy or a new Bill have to be announced there.
      Where is the difference between both Parliaments?

    57. Ken Mac says:

      To Bugger the Panda
      Jo and John are two different people, we think. John has managed to win Moron of the Day twice on my blog. You can check his further idiocy here. http://mackisimul.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/moron-of-the-day-no-1/ and here http://mackisimul.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/moron-of-the-day-no-2/

    58. alexicon says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      20 November, 2013 at 9:35 am

      “Has Johann Lamont had a sex change or worse are there two of them?”
      Johann Lamont and John Lamont are two different people. One’s a nasty Tory intent on attacking the poor at every opportunity, and the other one” Doesn’t look like Jimmy Krankie.

    59. Barontorc says:

      The performance of Holyrood and the standard of debate is under the direct control of the Presiding Officer Tricia Marwick. 
       
      She has not presided, but sat and listened as insult and demeaning comment hurled across the Chamber from opposition benches. Such absurd behaviour reflected badly not only on the perpetrators, but has greatly diminishing the status of our parliament. This has been put up with for far too long and has to be halted, with I suggest now being the perfect time to re-establish that authority.
       
      Given that the White Paper will consist of heavily written data strewn pages, no reasonable questioning should be expected for at least a week of the Paper’s scrutiny and this should be so directed from her office. Warning should be issued that peremptory and ill-prepared questions put to the Scottish Government over this most crucially important period will be halted at once for lack of relevance.
       
      This is the Scottish Parliament not some back street pub environment and it should be held up as such. Flex your powers Presiding Officer. It’s your duty.

    60. mealer says:

      I believe that if the Danes,Swedes,Norwegians,NZers etc can make a good job of running their own countries so can we Scots.The NO lot take a different view.They think we’re too useless to run a p*ss up in a brewery.

    61. Training Day says:

      Alistair Darling – doubtless having read EVERY WORD of the 211 pager produced yesterday on economic levers – dismissed it as ‘fantasy economics’.
       
      Alistair Darling – doubtless having read EVERY WORD of the White Paper will have dismissed it as ‘fantasy economics’ around 15 minutes after publication.
       
      The BBC/STV will headline with ‘Alistair Darling has dismissed Alex Salmond’s White Paper as ‘fantasy economics’

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For anyone interested, this is on tonight:
       
      Trade Unionists for Independence public meeting

      Topic: ‘The Workers’ case for Independence’
      Wednesday 20th November
      6.30pm
      Piper on the Square bar, George Square, Glasgow

      An important gathering of Scottish trade unionists takes place in Glasgow city centre on Wednesday evening, when the broad-based Trade Unionists for Independence (TUFI) holds a public meeting on “the workers’ case for independence”.
       
      A panel of speakers from several unions and workplaces will argue why workers need independence to improve their wages, job prospects, conditions and rights at work, as well as to help shape a more equal society for future generations.

    63. WND says:

      Stormy old week so far, but a picnic compared to what next week is going to be like.
       
      I’m comforting myself with the belief that this all shows how wise it was to go for a long campaign, to allow BT to blow themselves out before the final round. Classic “rope-a-dope”.
       
      The job of Wings and the rest of the online community is to keep YES in the game up to the point where the official campaign starts and we at least have half a hope of proper rules of engagement being enforced.  At that point it’s got to be all guns blazing from the YES side.
       
      Bit of a gamble, but probably the only sensible way to play it.  There does, after all, seem to be an endless supply of dopes in the Unionist camp.

    64. Molly says:

      pickledonionsupper
      you make an interesting point.

      After the Referendum , whatever the outcome Labour will be associated with negativity .it is Labour 99% of the time saying no . It is Labour coming across as petty.It is Labour coming across as everything in Scotland is negative. The Tories although funding Better Together Have played them well. 

    65. muttley79 says:

      @Rev Stu
       
      So when Labour’s heroically witless benchwarmer Paul Martin rages that “the Scottish government are acting with incredible arrogance. They are behaving more like an elected dictatorship than a democratically elected government”,
       
      Not this SLAB “Salmond is a dictator” schtick again.  How many times have they come out with this nonsense?  They really, really cannot take being in power can they?…They just will not accept the result of the 2011 elections, where they were deservedly hammered.  I really hope the SG do not back down on this.  The debate should be on Wednesday, after the White Paper has been properly looked at.  Oh and Martin you fool, it would only be a dictatorship if there was NO DEBATE AT ALL IN PARLIAMENT FFS.  Toys out of the pram again by the Unionists.  They can’t control the process, as they are in opposition, so they throw a hissy fit.

    66. Wp says:

      Most reporters from london based newspapers know very little about Scotland. another reason Cameron is reluctant to debate with Alex Salmond,he would have to read up on Scotland.

    67. david says:

      Johann Lamont and John Lamont are two different people. One’s a nasty Tory intent on attacking the poor at every opportunity, and the other one finish this joke yourself.
       
      what joke ?

    68. Thistle says:

      Hi Ian
      I’m planning to go to the TUFI meeting, see you there.

    69. steviecosmic says:

      I don’t know why anyone is really that surprised by this. I appreciate that folks of a thinking YES persuasion perform the ubiquitous face-palm on reading it, but at this stage in the game it’s surely par for the course, even given the epic stupidity of the statements made.
       
      This is a piece of downmarket theater, no more, no less. The MSM provides the stage while the unionists dispatch their best amateur troupe to recite the script provided by party headquarters. Worryingly however, I think this is less analogy than reality: Our players are, for all intents and purposes,  actors and not politicians, while our press is merely a flimsy and badly painted stage set whose only substantive structures are, upon closer inspection, mere hollow papier mache props. The whole thing is an elaborate illusion played out before a now largely disinterested audience. 

       
      If a free press and a strong opposition are prerequisites of a functioning democracy, then the UK is dangerously close to becoming an Orwellian dystopia.

    70. Davy says:

      Aye Rev, it will be fun and games next week as the opposition parties get out the dictionaries to find out what the big words in the white paper mean ??
       
      I thought it was so funny yesterday listening to Carmichael spouting that the financial paper published yesterday did not answer any questions of the IFS paper of the day before, BUT he never once said what questions ? he thought had not been answered.
       
      I believe that will be the same system he will use next week, he will just spout out the white paper does not answer any questions, same old, same old.

    71. Vronsky says:

      I think several posters above have got it right. Labour’s criticsims of the bill were written before the bill was out of draft: actually reading it when it is released would be superfluous, perhaps even dangerous.  
       
      So we should be able to guess what the top three criticisms will be.  My guesses:
       
      No information on (and it will all be ‘no information’ stuff):
      (1) Pensions (scare the auld yins)
      (2) Defence related jobs (scare the Glasgow mob back into their cages)
      (3) Mean specific gravity of clootie dumpling (scare everybody)

    72. Jingly Jangly says:

      Perhaps the Slab don’t know the difference between a  White paper and a Bill?

      Or are they as usual trying to muddy the waters and stifle debate. Obviously if a big stushie is kicked up in the MSM (And Jackie Bird was at it last night) about it not being debated in Parliament on the Tuesday, it gives them a diversion from the actual contents of the White Paper. Therefore its controversial from the start so every time its mentioned we get “The controversial Scottish Government White Bill” so that people think that there is something dodgy about the contents

      They must think we have a zip up oor heids!!!!

    73. Molly says:

      There is also IMHO a bit of the Scottish psyche which will put up with nonsense until we think your laughing at us now, Better Together ,to me is nearing that line.

      There is a very fine line between scaremongering and utter contempt.

      The Scotland team may have its ups and downs but the majority still wish it well for no other reason , it’s our team. Thats not influenced by economics or health or wealth , that’s influenced because they are seen in a small way, to represent us , we hope they do well. We don’t expect them to win the World Cup but we do ex

    74. muttley79 says:

      Great idea to go to Glasgow to release the White Paper.  As someone said previously SLAB do not like it at all, given that they complain about Glasgow being ignored.  I wonder if Sir Charles Gray, Alex Mossan etc will be invited to the launch.  SLAB would go delirious with rage if that happened.. ignored.. :D: :D:

    75. Gillie says:

      (3) Mean specific gravity of clootie dumpling (scare everybody)
       
      I found that is a variable dependent on the drinking habits of one’s grandparents. 

    76. Robbie says:

      Paul Martins da canny even read.
      Thick as pig shit runs in the family.

    77. Embradon says:

      It would be helpful, in the interests of constructive debate, if an illustrared copy was made available to the opposition with a picture on each page that they could colour in.

    78. mealer says:

      Trade Unionists for Independence
      I hope some of the speakers will touch on how the trade union movement can help drive productivity and company success.Thats an important role of the unions in the most progressive,successful countries.Help create prosperity and make sure that prosperity is fairly shared.

    79. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thistle (10.58) –
       
      I just posted that for information. Sadly, I’m not going.
       
      Hope it’s a good one though – would be nice if someone could let us know what happens.

    80. Seasick Dave says:

      Here’s more Alex Salmond is a dictator pish from the Express.
       
      http://archive.is/yWyn2

    81. john king says:

      nut shell in a

      The original idea of ‘political opposition’ was to hold the Government of the day to account over accuracy and quality of their decisions.
      To do so, it is necessary to have a grasp of the topics.
      ‘Opposition’ today seems more like rent-a-mob than ‘Our (well paid) Servants’ acting on our behalf.”

    82. john king says:

      given that theyre going to get several days to absorb the document if I were Alex Salmond I would give them a test to see just how much they know about it after having time to take it in, no peeping whats on page 17 ?
      GO

    83. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Johann Lamont and John Lamont are two different people. One is a nasty Tory intent on attacking the poor at every opportunity and the other
      Doesn’t live in a bunker?

    84. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Embracing, that would be a job for Conan with his blog of the secret diary of Ian Gray (aged 43 and 3/4) and his editorial job at the Hootsmon?.

    85. caz-m says:

      @Barontorc

      Totally agree with you regards the behaviour of some MSP’s in the Scottish Parliament. The Presiding Officer really does need to start earning her wages.

      The Parliament is often opened with the introduction of a guests from another Parliament from the other side of the world.

      And then all hell breaks lose. Wee Lamont is brought up from the “bunker” and the chains are taken off. She hasn’t seen daylight all week and she rabid.

      Like an out of control Jack Russell, she is oblivious to the audience, and drags the Scottish people down to the level of the gutter with her ranting and raving.

      She doesn’t just do this once and get away with it, but 3 times.

      Presiding Officer, you have got to start barring this shower of “Gangsters”, Also Known As Scottish Labour.

    86. Luigi says:

      Will there be a short, dumbed-down comic book version of the white paper available for intellectually challenged Labour politicians?

    87. gerry parker says:

      @Barontorc
      Agree 100%.
      I’ve written to the presiding officer on a number of occasions, pointing out that FMQ is the standard by which the Scottish Parliament will be judged and to let such crass tactics by “the opposition”  to go unchallenged  shows parliament in a poor light.
      I’ll continue to make my feelings known on this subject.

    88. Molly says:

      Expect a wee bit of heart it’s all we ask( correct button this time)

    89. Robert Kerr says:

      Back from a brisk hour walking the dog.
       
      My anger management technique.
       
      Some thoughts on the interim postings.
       
      1.  Yes its sovereignty of the people not parliament. Fundamental difference between Scotland and England.
       
      2.  Surely a dictatorship thrives on lack of opposition. Get your act together and be adult parliamentarians rather than banging desks and being childish (SLAB especially)
       
      3.  Show the World. Bet RT is there. And the French TV. and…. Well played that man Salmond.

    90. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The copies of the WP designated for opposition parties’ perusal should have wee bits of paper (or strands of hair, or used fivers?) inserted between early pages – in years to come we can track down those copies and find out whether or not they were ever opened.

    91. Rod Mac says:

      Slightly O/T  but to further trash the nonsense of the IFS Report  new oil info out today
      “in a recent paper, the OECD forecasts a Brent price of $190 per barrel in today’s money by 2020, with the possibility of it climbing to as high as $270 a barrel.
      Now of course our media and opposition parties will say nothing about this.
      Duplicity and corruption abound in UKPLC

    92. Rod Mac says:

      Oops ,sorry forgot the link
      http://archive.is/DSOCM

    93. Linda's Back says:

      Alistair Darling should know all about Fantasy Economics as a Lawyer he was no more fit to be Chancellor of the Exchequer than  Paul Flowers was fit to the Co-op Bank CEO.
      Neither Fred Goodwin or Hornby who presided over the collapse of their banks had fewer Banking Qualifications than your average Bank Manager.

    94. chalks says:

      I would fully expect to see something in the Sunday Herald this week about the white paper……with a nice cover.

    95. chalks says:

      @Luigi There is a summary……as there tends to be with all these types of things….

    96. gollygosh says:

      They are upset because Salmond has organised a press conference.
       
      I mean, how dare he?

    97. gollygosh says:

      In Glasgow, I mean in Glasgow!
       
      Since when has Glasgow been part of Scotland?

    98. ronnie anderson says:

      Dear  Ms MopHeid’ Please find enclosed 500 pages of a Story I have written ‘on Your / Labour Party,s  contabution,s to the debates withing the Scottish Parliament ‘there are also chapters on the other two ‘non contributers , as it is lenghtly I am sure you will manage to read it during your Christmas Hols ,given that Alex Salmon has given you reading material over 500 +++, It has taken myself some considerable time to get this story to you  (  morrisons  shelf  – express till – post office ) and at some cost  £2.50 500 A4 + postage I hope  you enjoy reading it (  unlike  Mr Salmonds second hand story )  I know for a fact that he has given that White Paper to several 1000 s  of before you( how inconsiderate of him) mines only for you + friends wullie/ ruthie  . ( PS btw the wee totty  rid line across the front is in no way a referance of the LP its what you pull to open the pack

    99. Wingman 2020 says:

      How many downloads will the WhitePaper get in the first few days?
       
      I think we should make a point of all downloading it as soon as it emerges.  All YES organisations and people…  over a million downloads would be amazing.  

      Now that would be worth debating in Holyrood. 

    100. Papadocx says:

      If the UN guaranteed LONDINIUM a permanent seat on the security council.
      If SCOTLANDSHIRE signed away it’s oil reserves to LONDINIUM.
       
      THEN BELIEVE ME WESTMINSTER WOULD BE PUSHING US ON OUR INDEPENDENT WAY!
       
      SLAB WOULD BE THE ONLY MOB STILL DEMANDING UNION. TO FEEL PART OF SOMETHING AND FLOAT THE GRAVY BOAT ON. 

    101. Ken Johnston says:

      Re
      Gerry Parker

      @Barontorc
      caz-m 
       
      Me too,
      I wrote after Micheal McMahon’s outburst saying she, the Presiding Officer, was “out of order” and her confused reply on camera. The name calling, ie “Pinnichio” and “twisted as a corkscrew”, and other insulting language, have no place in the chamber. And last week, we had Jenny Marra called to account, weakly. She should have been told to leave.
      As one of you said, what a picture to present to the world.
      I told her  in my opinion she was doing a poor job of running the chamber, and still do.
       
      I received a reply from Graeme Donoghue, Office of the Presiding Officers. acknowledging the email. And that was all.

      And is it just me, but her voice is not to my liking. Too weak, or something.

    102. David McCann says:

      Thursday’s FMQs.
      Bring on ‘The Clangers’! The mice-like moon-dwellers who communicated via a melancholy whistle! Describes the BT lot to a tee.

    103. Ian Mor says:

      “Rod Mac – Slightly O/T  but to further trash the nonsense of the IFS Report  new oil info out today”
      I saw that story myself, but it’s dated March this year. So the original poster has been misleading us by suggesting it is somehow breaking news. Interesting yes, but should have been a current forecast from the OECD.

    104. Les Wilson says:

      The SG have a lot invested in the white paper and they will be waiting for the “faux ” outrage that the Unionist will display, they lie in wait along with the MSM to shoot it all down and attempt to discredit it. They will be prepared for it, they cannot not be.

      However, an avalanche of Unionist despair there will be, let us all be prepared to verbally ( and across blogs and youtube, facebook, twitter etc ) support it and to spread encouraging words far and wide. Lets start giving them it back.

    105. eddie says:

      Given that the media allow our unionist chums to get away with any old lie they see fit to utter, does it make any difference to them that they havent had time to read the white paper?  They’ll have ready made crap to utter regardless.
       
      How long until we see Anas ‘I approve of the bedroom tax’ Sarwar parading about and waving another made up sheet of lies with a comical ‘Top Secret’ stamped upon it?

    106. A2 says:

      I’d be rather tempted to say “All right lets change everything, give you half a day to read the thing just as you wish and debate it” then spend a fair bit of time asking if they have read it and demanding why not.

    107. A2 says:

      Unfortunately the people who will take the criticisms of the paper ‘as read’ won’t be reading it either so they won’t know the difference. If it said it’s pish on the bbc…

    108. Patrick Roden says:

      I wonder if AS puts a little Bear Trap in the white paper.
       
      Maybe a little something that will give the Labour Party the choice of agreeing publicly with the Tories or maybe causing rifts within BT.
       
      I’m certain he will have something planned that will put a large wedge in what is already a badly fractured BT campaign. 😉

    109. Murray McCallum says:

      The Labour Party investigation into Falkirk showed that Scottish Labour politicians confuse “seen” with “read”.
       
      Paul Martin is confusing these two actions. It probably explains why they contribute so little to any debate.

    110. Andy-B says:

      I couldnt give a monkeys about Lamont and Co, I just hope the “Whitepaper” lives up to expectation, Im sure it will.

    111. JimW says:

      Am I misunderstanding something here?  Surely the SNP white paper is effectively a manifesto laying out the position of only one of the political parties which advocates a YES vote in the referendum.  Do the other parties intend to deliver white papers laying out their intentions in the event of a NO vote, and, if they do, would they expect to have to deliver them to a parliament which has no power to do anything about at the present, rather than to the public to which the information is vital ? 

    112. cirsium says:

      “heroically witless benchwarming”
       
      Les mots justes! Beautiful Rev.

    113. the journeyman says:

      This week they stole the SG’s thunder with preemptive IFS publication which let them make points about what IFS was saying with no need to really analyse the SG publication. Could it be that AS has out flanked them by making them play their joker early to get max effect from white paper. Just a thought?

    114. Smudger says:

      they are just going to read the summary and I wish they’d stop treating the electorate as if our heads button up the back
       

    115. Red squirrel says:

      Can we have a competition about how fast the no campaign get their WP 501 page scare story out? My guess would be within 45 minutes of launch – no wait, wasn’t that a previous story?

    116. Lindsey Smith says:

      O/T in ‘A Narrow Escape’ You said that Aberdeen had ‘dodged the bullet’, but we haven’t; the incredible Mr Young is a councillor in our fair city, so he is still able to bring Labour’s own special brand of ‘debate’ and ‘clear thinking’ to the running of Aberdeen’s city council.

    117. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “O/T in ‘A Narrow Escape’ You said that Aberdeen had ‘dodged the bullet’, but we haven’t; the incredible Mr Young is a councillor in our fair city, so he is still able to bring Labour’s own special brand of ‘debate’ and ‘clear thinking’ to the running of Aberdeen’s city council.”

      I did, in fairness, point that out in the preceding sentence.

    118. Derick Tulloch says:

      That would be the Paul Martin that ran a disgraceful campaign against an affordable housing development by Link at Auchinairn. People’s Party my hairy Shetland erse bah!

    119. david says:

      ive always thought paul martin is a jerker, chip off the old block dont you know.

    120. velofello says:

      I’m not optimistic of the Unionist parties voicing reasoned analysis and concerns on the White Paper. Just consider  the gravitas they gave to the pitifully inadequate IFS report. As others have voiced here, the sound bites are likely already issued for the dumber to memorise, rehearse and spout to the MSM.



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