We told you so #2
Posted on
September 23, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Even we’re surprised how fast these are coming true.
Stay tuned for more. They’re on the way.
(Here are some of the times we told you so.)
Nick Clegg Signs Another Pledge
Give it with one hand and take away with the other.
I feel bad for the people who fell for it, and how stupid they must be feeling now, but more than that, I feel sorry for our nation, as it suffers from their poor decision.
But Jackie Burd telt us we’d be arite. Just spoke to a customer who was the only one in her office (12) to vote Yes. The rest were going on the vow and saying Alecsammin canny be trusted. Head. Wall. Bang.
We will do what we are told, that’s. what the NO’s wanted , now they will reap the shit they’ve sown
So, I suppose we can all have a wee rest and let the 55% kick up fuck about this, right? (Any of them need a loan of a wallpaper table?)
No promise no union. Million votes for snp coming soon
I’m rather grudgingly impressed with their boldness. 10h for vow to collapse, 48h for nhs safety to disappear, 4d for this…I expect an announcement of the gigantic oil find in Clair field by Thursday.
file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/sn04033.pdf
Curious that there are significant differences between the english regions which don’t seem to be mentioned, though they are not due to the barnett formula which doesn’t apply to them.
Curious, also that much that is spent in London is not counted because it is said to be for the benefit of the UK as a whole.
Curious that even without that adjustment London go the same per capita public spending as Scotland in 2009 and about the same in 2010. Does anybody believe that spending in London fell relative to Scotland in the Olympic year of 2012?
Curious that the levels of unemployment are not used to adjust the outturn figures
Curious that the fact that some things, like water, are included in public expenditure in Scotland, but not in England, but the figures are not adjusted for that
What really needs to occur to allow a unilateral declaration of independence, seriously,something that can’t be challenged.
If you do nothing else today,
join the SNP or the Greens
as a member of the Independence Alliance.
.
Let’s make a million member Independence Alliance
to send ONLY Independence MP’s to Westminster in May 2015
.
To overcome the might of the British Establishment/State
we’re going to need something a little bigger
than the 45% that we are now.
.
link to snp.org
link to scottishgreens.org.uk
Rally outside holyrood during office hours let’s make life impossible for them like they have for us even outside their homes. Should have been BLT campaign , better lying together campaign .
We need to kill the subsidy myth for good.
They always talk about Scotland’s extra +£1600. They never talk about taxation going in the opposite direction.
When the cash flows south, it’s ‘pooling and sharing’. When it returns, it’s a subsidy.
Can we get 5 million flyers produced and handed out across Scotland with each group of denials?
Bus stops, trains, cafés, newstands.
Crowdfund
My niece joined the SNP this morning and is going to Holyrood.
I managed to get her to the March on the Mound last year although she arrived late with her brood as they had treated it as a day out.
I stayed with her during the First Counting House Friday and worked on her neighbour who is a college lecturer and now a Union rep because her job was at risk.
Converted my niece and how!
The Union rep sees he future as a Labour time server. Little does she know how short the sell-by date is.
I’m not beaten nor broken. I and many thousands are rallying and readying for the next stage, whatever that may be.
They think It’s all over…..It is now!
From SNP website
Peter Murrell
Big shout out and huge welcome to our 21,464 new @theSNP members.
Please bear with our struggling servers, join now:
Time stamp about 9am today
Am pretty certain if ya show this to a no voter they’ll say “well it’s all snp and Alex salmonds fault” much like the unionist riots were his fault too. I guess some folk don’t see the woods for the trees.
Its an unusual situation where the “leading” party in an election looses . The leader resigns and it is followed by 1000’s joining their party within a few days .
I understand the SNP is now verging on being the 3rd largest supported ,by membership , Political Party in the UK ?
This too must have an impact on WM .
I agree with Ian Brotherhood . I worry that the 55% are large sectors of educated middle class types , like Lawyers, architects etc , public service etc . They’re life is generally remote from poverty , food banks etc .
Note ; I am well aware that YES support is from ALL throughout society .
We need to concentrate in understanding WHY those who voted NO did so .
AS I previously stated , my impression from NOs is that currency needed to be in place .
I also understand “people” make a decision ,then search for the evidence to back it up , so maybe we may never understand a NO decision .
As regards I told you so , I would caution bending the ears of your social Nos . Just casually mention what you have read without targeting them . We need to endear ourselves to them so we can discuss ” FACTS ” in round 2 , which hopefully will not be too far ahead .
No Powers , No deal !
GE coming soon vote the Tory/Lab/Lib Unionists out. Protect Scotland from lying Unionists, and this will not happen.
The people I feel most sorry for are the youth in Scotland starting out. The older heads who voted NO for themselves can rot as far as I’m concerned. They have been lied to before and bought it allowing them to do it again for the sake of themselves and nobody else is an absolute travisty.
The young at least are learning that these people can NEVER be trusted.
I don’t understand why the SNP leadership have been so lack lustre in terms of their opposition to Barnett funding reforms and the proposed new tax powers.
The proposal to reduce funding via the Barnett formula and to make up the short fall via higher income tax levied by the Scottish Parliament would be a disaster for the SNP and Independence more generally. We would get the blame for putting up taxes not Westminster.
The SNP need to push much harder for control over our own revenues and ruthlessly attack the ‘more powers’ ploy of the Unionists parties as a trap for Scotland.
Swinney et al need to get a grip of this and strangle it. He and many in the SNP leadership cabal are far too wishy-washy. I think we need someone who can communicate in direct simple English to deliver hard hitting messages to ordinary people in 1 sentence.
Salmond despite his strategic genius, was in my view very guilty of over-articulating his arguments, in the mistaken assumption he always talking to other clever politicos.
People want simple messages powerfully spoken. Extra tax – no thanks, Our revenues – Yes please
I have no beef with the Tories. We all know exactly what they stand for.
We all knew this would happen.
What happens next?
Let me guess – there will be a further discussion, followed by more talks with none of the 3 Unionist and SNP agreeing on these “more powers”. It will batter on for weeks, months.
SNP fire in with a ‘Yes Alliance’ in 2015 with the promise of (if they win most seats) on devolution max.
We need land reform, ASAP. Riddoch talks so much sense about this.
We live in interesting times.
Martin, Clair field was paraded in all it’s monstrous glory day after the ref on….the BBC.
I have this morning joined the SNP party and lets go forward and get all the nominees we require for each town and city and take labour out of existence here comes the revolution.
I feel for the bairns too. I am 31 years old, but I am so inspired by what happened on Thursday.
People I know who have never voted in years are now joining political movements, volunteering at Food banks.
All those 16-18 year olds must be given the vote!
Look at the numbers from Ashcroft’s polls. Take away the 65+ age group, it was roughly 55% for Indy.
It’s a ticking time bomb, folks.
Scotland will flourish!
In fairness – that is expected. If we raise £xb via SRIT etc, then that £xb comes off our block grant
The issue is ensuring that its ONLY £xb that comes off and not more
I posted this in another section but maybe worth posting here in light of developments:
My thoughts on the demographics of the No voters:
A fairly significant proportion of No voters are not elderly or ‘working class’ but ‘middle class’ – homeowners in white collar, salaried positions – I’d guess they’re what you’d call Thatcher’s children. That’s the dream they were sold and they’re living it – or at least aspiring to it.
During the campaign I was struck by the constant references to the ‘working class’. Why? Is independence not for everyone?
To tell them that independence would make social equality a reality, by protecting and even enhancing the welfare state, would send one very clear message to them – we’re going to get clobbered for tax to pay for it. Remember that they’ve also been sold the slogan of the ‘undeserving poor’. If they’re voting New Labour it’s because they think that’s the party that gives them Tory values but with just a hint of social conscience thrown in.
Now whether you are care about their mindset or not, you have to address it. You have to engage these No voters.
So which of the arguments for Yes were targeted particularly at those people?
For example, where was the Fracking issue in the campaign? A great swathe of the Central Belt of Scotland is being earmarked for fracking. Now, this is a disaster environmentally but also, for those middle class homeowners who don’t have the environmental argument at the top of their agenda, there’s the distinct possibility that even the threat of this could cut property values by up to 80%. The reality could mean compulsory purchase orders and leave land unfit to rebuild on.
Don’t you think that if they have that information coupled with a clear, robust and genuine anti-fracking policy commitment (whether SNP, Green or both), then they would have a REASON to cast their votes in that direction, surely.
It would also give more traction to the case for the oil (and, by association, for the removal of Trident to enable extraction) as well as the case for renewable alternatives.
Did anyone canvass them with this info? Any leaflets, perhaps? I suspect not.
For the next campaign, include this group of No/Labour voters and take the arguments to them.
According to Ed Balls-up labour intend to raise the retirement age and end winter fuel allowance
link to twitter.com
The problem Scotland faces now is the promise of new powers give us no further control over fairly distrubuting our revenue income into the projects that we would like to.
Giving scots more tax raising powers on only parts of our revenue income leaves us with having to increase taxes to cover the costs of westminster spending cuts to keep our Health and welfare system how we would like regardless of our surlpus income.
In example:
Scotland recieves 26 billion from westminster to run our systems. If westminster Cuts health, education and welfare spending in england the proportionate amount, around 10% of the cuts put in force in england will come out of the scottish budget.
This will leave large funding gaps in the scottish budget that will have to be filled with raising taxes above english levels or accepting cuts in our social systems.
However as we cannot save this money from the defence budget (not devolved) nor can we use our oil revenues (also not devolved) or indeed share some of the costs across the breadth of the scottish tax system (for instance corporate tax NOT devolved) Ordinary Scots will end up paying twice for their health and education systems.
What was completely ignored in the entire debate on constitutional reform was how the UK is funded at the moment. The UK is funded as a 13 region state. Northern Irland, Wales, and scotland are three of these states plus ten English states including London and the south east.
The newspapers and tory MPs all make big news that Scotland recieves more per head than England as a whole. This is true but per region we are only third best funded in the UK behind London and northern Ireland. However we are the second largest contributor to the treasury (without oil revenues)out of the 13 regions. If you want a truely fair form of UK funding then each of the 13 regions should have complete control over their own revenues and Contribute an agreed percentage of these revenues to the maintainence of a joint defence and foreign policy department, managed by the heads of each region. Much like EU policy decisions where the Head of each state can vote on EU policy, then the heads of each region can vote on UK policy with regards to Defence and Foreign Policy.
Problem is the Bankers, powerbrokers, big buisness and their lobbyists dont want to see power devolved, it makes it much harder to find the politician to bribe.
Manandboy spot on. Join, Join, Join. I did. I also pray that north Britain gets done over transparently and obviously in this ‘vow’ bollocks. I hope they do their best to stitch it up well and truly. This surely can only motivate us to gain our independence by other means. Feck another referendum – it’s rotten to the core. Our hope just now lies with the mechanism of the SNP. I don’t give a fuck what they call themselves. I am not voting for aesthetics or essay writers, I am voting and working for independence, the politicking can begin afterwards.
Not surprised at all, I knew this would happen. Barnett to go by xmas next, or as soon as feasible. Just feel very worried for the people this will, affect, the poor, sick and disabled. I wonder if the charity for which I am on the board, some of whom expressed the fear factor to others and accused me of politicising a meeting when I challenged them, will survive to this time next year, I doubt it, and they support people with learning disabilities.
Pat Kane right now on GMS, 0840 if you can go on i player talking about funding an alternative media.
He’s spot on. We can all fund this.
There are 1.6 million of us!
My wife joined the SNP yesterday, after a two day wait to get registered.
Lets de-list the Scottish unionist MP’s from westminster in 2015 exspecially the red tories, lets clean up Scotland.
Fight the Unionists for those who cannot – their ultimate victims
TacketyBeets
Yesterday I spoke to a friend of many years. Same age group as me (over 60. A ‘No’voter). She does not ‘do’ the internet. Relying on the BBC and the odd newspaper for her information, she hadn’t heard of TTIP and other stuff. Interestingly, in her opinion, the YES campaign hadn’t made enough of these issues. We agreed that there are those that winnae listen to anything that doesn’t fit in with their pre-conceived ideas.
Does this help answer your query?
On the subject of communication – I feel the SNP leadership are also guilty of talking ‘to’ journalists rather than talking ‘through’ journalists.
In other words, be less concerned about answering the questions as framed by the (biased) journalist but keep getting your message out – repetition may be boring but it works – A. Darling did so on the currency issue and hey look what happened!
I posted this in another section but thought it might be worth re-posting here, given recent developments – apologies if this turns up here twice (sometimes it looks as if a post hasn’t gone through when it has!):
My thoughts on the demographics of the No voters:
A fairly significant proportion of No voters are not elderly or ‘working class’ but ‘middle class’ – homeowners in white collar, salaried positions – I’d guess they’re what you’d call Thatcher’s children. That’s the dream they were sold and they’re living it – or at least aspiring to it.
During the campaign I was struck by the constant references to the ‘working class’. Why? Is independence not for everyone?
To tell them that independence would make social equality a reality, by protecting and even enhancing the welfare state, would send one very clear message to them – we’re going to get clobbered for tax to pay for it. Remember that they’ve also been sold the slogan of the ‘undeserving poor’. If they’re voting New Labour it’s because they think that’s the party that gives them Tory values but with just a hint of social conscience thrown in.
Now whether you are care about their mindset or not, you have to address it. You have to engage these No voters.
So which of the arguments for Yes were targeted particularly at those people?
For example, where was the Fracking issue in the campaign? A great swathe of the Central Belt of Scotland is being earmarked for fracking. Now, this is a disaster environmentally but also, for those middle class homeowners who don’t have the environmental argument at the top of their agenda, there’s the distinct possibility that even the threat of this could cut property values by up to 80%. The reality could mean compulsory purchase orders and leave land unfit to rebuild on.
Don’t you think that if they have that information coupled with a clear, robust and genuine anti-fracking policy commitment (whether SNP, Green or both), then they would have a REASON to cast their votes in that direction, surely.
It would also give more traction to the case for the oil (and, by association, for the removal of Trident to enable extraction) as well as the case for renewable alternatives.
Did anyone canvass them with this info? Any leaflets, perhaps? I suspect not.
For the next campaign, include this group of Labour voters and take the arguments to them.
People fooled, some happily, by Westminster’s promises should be made to contribute to a fund equal to the finance removed by London.
That’s what they voted for, that’s what they should pay for. Scotland’s future in Westminster’s hands.
Hate to say it but work in the public sector. A lot of staff are unaware of the arguments and in some cases even less interested.
We come back to the same issue. David Cameron can announce in the Telegraph or Guardian or whatever but unless Jackie Bird/John McKay tell us at t time , many will remain oblivious to what’s going on.
We need a route to get information across .
Prob with alternate media,we will be talking to ourselves,it’s the 55% no you need to talk to
I appreciate it is in the Herald, which many of us in the 45 have no time for, but, have a read of “The Shackelton Report No. 25”, it is brilliantly-funny, and, we need a laugh right now.
Sincere apologies folks for the repeat posting.
the 55% who betrayed their country should dig deep into their pockets and make up the difference of what the shortfall is, J K Rowling has plenty of money and she was for No let her bail the country out
To all No voters and Yes voters visiting for the first time, I refer you to pages 42-46 of the Wee Blue Book which you can read online by clicking on the icon at the top right of this page. These pages and the excellent article link to wingsoverscotland.com will explain what is now starting to happen. If you’re unhappy about it, why not join one of the parties who campaign for Scottish independence? Here are the links to their websites (in no particular order):
link to scottishsocialistparty.org
link to snp.org
link to scottishgreens.org.uk
FFS Just vote them out. The lot of them.
They can’t do it.
SocratesMacSporran
NO, I will not read the Herald, not now and never again.
The Glasgow Pravda.
The issue now is where and who in Scotland is £1600 cut per head going to come from. BetterTogetherBBC and co’s next task is getting Labour and Lamont back in power in Scotland, so get set for some chronic cutbacks on the worst off and SNP Scots.gov takes the blame.
We must be the only country in the world where appalling debt that we didn’t spend is used to annihilate our right to self governance.
If you voted NO and you start losing your bus pass or your council tax starts climbing, do shut up.
BBC still at it
Andy Murray
link to bbc.co.uk
Central FM
link to centralfm.co.uk
@Shuggy
That’s the most sense I’ve heard post-referendum.
FFS when in a hole attack the SNP. Get real.
The Unionists can’t do it, if they are voted out. They have stole enough and destroyed the Scottish economy. Get them out.
Just a quick reminder to kind hearted Wings regulars.
If you want to help keep a respected and valuable scottish blog going any assistance at all would be hugely appreciated. 🙂
link to indiegogo.com
The SNP will not ‘get the blame’. The No voters and the Unionists will.
Stop posting shite. Go to off topic and stop clogging up the site for real comment.
It was promises of DevMax/Home Rule wot won it.
With endless offers of DevoWeeBitMore, Yes had pulled into the lead. I firmly believe it was those promises of DevMax/Home Rule which tipped balance back no No.
The above article begs the question ….. If they do deliver DevMax/Home Rule, then how can London bring down Scottish public spending?
The whole point, and for many the attractiveness of DevMax/Home Rule is that all interference in Scottish domestic affair would completely stop?
So what does Cameron actually plan? I smell shite!
I suspect a lot of academics voted No, made anxious about the loss of fat research grants, and irrational worries over a Scottish government in control of academic agenda.
I have got to hand to to Cameron. He has stitched up Labour well and truly. Playing tough with those rebellious scots will play extremely well with UKIP supporters. And what is to lose in 2015? David Mundell MP – no great loss to the party. Cameron can certainly live with that. But Labour?
Ed Milliband is now being portrayed as standing in the way of fairness and democracy for the England. The MSM will crucify him.
2015 Tory landslide on the way – you can put your money on it.
BBC still at it
Andy Murray
So now they go after Andy. BettertogetherBBC propaganda can’t just be switched off. Ok it can be turned off but this is their version of bayoneting the wounded. They clearly think Scotland as a country is dead and gone now but they’ll still do everything they can to make Andy’s life a misery in teamGB.
Ye-hah, got thru, signed up
Wish I’d done it years ago but now there’s only one way forward, roll on May
Scotland to be punished by the British state for having the temerity to engage in the democratic process. That us telt.
Can we stop calling NO voters ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’, the people who mislead them are the ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
So here we are on the first day of Autumn.
After our referendum was pissed on from high, the embers are well and truly glowing again and there could be a rare old bonfire by the time Guy Fawkes night comes around again. Maybe we’ll be burning the command white paper due end of October. The next few months up to the GE in May could see the biggest political mobilisation Scotland has ever seen as I think campaigning will be even bigger than for the referendum itself.
If Rev Stu stays on board this will be worth watching.
Is he due another fundraiser to keep him going ?
@Achnababan says:23 September, 2014 at 8:29 am:
“I don’t understand why the SNP leadership have been so lack lustre in terms of their opposition to Barnett funding reforms and the proposed new tax powers.
Thing is, Achnababan, they have, not been lack lustre but they do not get covered by the lying MSM and BBC, (Biased Broadcasting Clique). They go largely unreported while the Westminster tripartite Establishment always have the ear & voice of the media, then Joe & Josephine Scot-Public get a one-sided-view.
Even when the Scottish media do bother to report things the are one sided. The media bosses have no compunction whatsoever of removing, one way or another, any even handed broadcaster or reporter who dares be even handed.
Ask yourself why, for example, Isabel Frazer, perhaps the best and most even handed journalist the BBC have on their books, has been relegated to the equivalent of the cub newspaper reporter charged with writing about local flower shows, hatched/matched/dispatched and bonnie baby shows? Why too is Derek Bateman no longer with the BBC? All TV in Scotland is biased and the Scottish dead tree press has only one weekend edition of an otherwise foreign owned publication of the 37 major newspapers in Scotland none are owned by people based in Scotland.
Ask why, for example, a BBC report of an large organized mob of Better Together thugs making a concerted attack upon a peaceful celebration by YES supporters is not only reported as a confrontation between two rival mobs and is backed up with video and still pictures to show it as such while social media has much stills and footage showing the truth.
I’m still very spiteful towards the No clowns, and so I’ve lolled at this.
They really did want rid of Scotland. They conducted the most inept campaign possible, and thought “this can’t work – they’ll definitely vote no”. Only they thought, after the No result “Jesus, just how fucking stupid are they?”
So this is them trying harder.
baheid
Can we stop calling NO voters ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’, the people who mislead them are the ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
Some of them were misled. But many weren’t. Many still genuinely think “fuck ’em, I’m all right”.
How will England view the Labour party in the run up to 2015:
1. An extremely weak leader, who stabbed his brother in the back.
2. A bunch of incompetents, who almost lost Scotland.
3. Anti English behaviour – a refusal to endorse plans to rectify the West Lothian Question.
And the Scottish view:
1. An extremely weak leader, who stabbed his brother in the back.
2. A bunch of incompetents, who helped to destroy the dreams of a Scottish generation.
3. Anti-Scottish behaviour – a refusal to endorse real powers (devo max). In fact they only came up with the weakest of the three unionist party proposals.
And then there’s the vow!
Oh Dear, things ain’t looking great for Labour next year.
Some of them were misled. But many weren’t. Many still genuinely think “fuck ‘em, I’m all right”.
Aye, but we can’t separate the sheep from the goats, and we need all the sheep we can get! Insulting them en masse will just turn them all into goats.
My No friends are all middleclass. The common theme in them voting No was money. Their money! Some have small businesses, and all were worried about the money in their pocket! At least half of them are English. I am half English, but I do object to these people coming up here to reap the benefits of the NHS, free prescriptions, bus passes and a better way of life and then vote against my country becoming Independent!
Not all English people feel that way! The rest are Scottish and like being part of the UK! However, I still don’t think that they were confident that Scotland could make it on its own!
It’s terribly frustrating, but I have to keep them onside and still chip away with great stuff on Facebook about cuts coming. I constantly share this stuff with them. Always hoping……
The problem is the media and in particular, the lying propagandist BBC. We in the time available before the General election, have work to do.
We need to point out how the media have lied, and most importantly point out just how corrupt the BBC actually is.
Most folks are blissfully unaware of how the BBC works. The impartiality of the BBC is apparently overseen by the BBC Trust – just it’s name – ‘Trust’. It makes you feel like they will ensure the BBC behaves, jolly good chaps making sure the BBC is aimpartial. Until you find out how it works. The director general of the BBC, who makes all subordinate appointments, and has editorial oversight, is appointed by the BBC trust. The chairman of the BBC trust is appointed by the Queen and Prime Minister. Seriously!
Most people are completely unaware of how much the BBC is controlled by Westminster and the British establishment. It is a Westminster/English propagandist mouthpiece, no more, no less, and my patience with ANY who work there has worn out (sorry Derek Batemen, but I’ve seen enough now). They ALL played their part in deceiving the people of Scotland. Shame on them. A disgraceful place to work. Anti Scottish Filth.
Independence is more palatable a nicer word than Nationalist. Scottish independence party has longer shelf life working to prosper & maintain independence.
Scottish Borders – full of middle class voters as well as poor wee pensioner that was scared to death. Didn’t see any canvasing here at all. There are good honest people here with no info to counteract what they’re fed. Internet here is shocking anyway, a black hole, people can’t use it regardless.
People believe people.
The young folk on FB are all worked up after being cheated. Heading to protest on Sunday at Parliament Square. They have taken up a cause for the first time in their sometimes uneducated lives. They’re joining the SNP in their droves to fight for truth and their freedom.
Hope they get the party they were robbed of and not just another disappointment. Xx
Luigi
Aye, but we can’t separate the sheep from the goats, and we need all the sheep we can get! Insulting them en masse will just turn them all into goats
Agreed. We do need to be smart, and if that means biting our collective tongue (which it does) then that’s what should be done.
Honey works better than vinegar.
Lord Barnett in the Daily Heil
“I didn’t create the so-called Barnett Formula to give Scotland an advantage over the rest of the country when it comes to public funding. It is a great embarrassment to have my name attached to so unfair a system that has only lasted as long as it has because successive governments have failed to deal with the issue for fear of upsetting the Scots. I have been pressing the case for wholesale reform of the system for many years.”
“I believe the Barnett Formula should be scrapped as soon as is practicable and replaced by a statutory body charged with distributing government spending in a way that the most money goes to areas that need it most.”
Scotland loses 5.3 mn x £1600 = £8.5bn. Who pays?
So instead of starting Scottish independence this week taking control of Scots oil and gas, we are now facing massive economic decline or crash.
I’m alright jocks must be so proud this week.
Achnababan says
“I don’t understand why the SNP leadership have been so lack lustre in terms of their opposition to Barnett funding reforms and the proposed new tax powers. ”
I would imagine that real politic demands that you dont piss of the person with the purse strings,
now the SNP have to think about the population of Scotland in other words the tories dont and wont!
Westminster will bleed Scotland dry, maybe that is a good thing. The hand of Westminster on the throats of Scotland might be the push over the edge required. I do feel sorry for the innocent that will be hurt.
And to David Cameron “I know why the sun never sets on the British Empire, God would never trust an Englishman in the dark”
They were warned, if the electorate took time to read the literature sent out.
The SNP must be getting near to doubling their membership since Friday. A lot of new members have joined via Parliamentary Offices and should be added to the total online figure soon.
Stop inter fighting. Concentrate on the positive. Get the lying Unionists politicians out. Vote SNP and get control over the Scottish economy. Westminster can do nothing. They will not have the power. The Scottish Gov can appeal to EU court of human rights.
Telling lies is not a great political strategy.
I would like to see a site along the lines of ‘Indy Poster Boy’ be established as a library of (preferably) A5 leaflets in PDF format for downloading and home printing.
There’s a huge range of general topic subjects which could be covered: Oil, Pensions, The Scottish NHS, Barnett Formula, comparison of average wage and tax take etc of Scandinavian countries with UK demonstrating difference in spending power with UK. etc,
Let’s get our street stalls back out there and educate our neighbours so that when the call comes we are ready and the scare stories have already have been neutralised.
Pesonally I use a laser printer and with the winter approaching would suggest that folk who don’t have one look to aquiring one. They are not expensive and the toner doesn’t run when damp. Also, they are actually cheaper to run than inkjets.
BBC attack propaganda a tad different from what Andy actually said. From Glasgow evening times
“The 27-year-old Scot told his followers: “Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!”
Independence was ultimately rejected by a margin of 55% to 45%.
Asked if he had any regrets about sending the tweet, Murray said: “I don’t regret giving an opinion. I think everyone should be allowed that. The way I did it, yeah, it wasn’t something I would do again.
“I think it was a very emotional day for a lot of Scottish people and the whole country and the whole of the UK, it was a big day.
He’s so cute when he tries to get mean!
These guys are our biggest recruitment tool!
Come on, spank us you bitches. Get our cause really going!
SNP now 3rd largest party in UK over 20,000 new members.
Might even be heading for 50,000 total! 😮
THE FIRE RISES! 😀
link to youtube.com
The fight back is ON!
If there are any WBBs still around, I think we should keep distributing them.
An adapted version, addressing specific fears and concerns that analyses show caused many potential YES voters to waver, would also be valuable. Then there’s possibilities for Polish, Latvian, Asian versions etc.
Rev, no one deserves a break more than you, but I hope you do stay in the game long-term, and help the 45 to grow.
How about a Wee Red Book, specially designed for distributing to disaffected Labour voters in 2015?
We could wipe those barstewards out in 2015.
Email received this morning, what a bloody cheek.
Mind you it does show desperation when you have to get wifey to do the begging for you…
Dear Nana
It’s great to be back in Manchester for Labour Party conference this week — the city where I was born and where Ed was elected leader of the Labour Party.
Today, Ed will be taking the stage again to set out his plan for Britain’s future. He wants to win so we can change Britain together, and I know he wants you to be on stage with him too.
We will be projecting the pictures of thousands of Labour supporters on the big screen behind Ed today before he makes his speech — can you add yours now?
There’s only a few hours left until Ed’s speech, so this is your last chance — it’s all done through Facebook and it takes just a couple of clicks. You’ll be asked to authorise an app — don’t worry, it won’t post anything to your wall:
Honestly, as a young lawyer who wanted to change the world, I never would have believed that I would become a politician’s wife. It’s not a role you apply for, nor one I’ve found easy to understand.
Just after Ed won, I Googled a few terms to see if there were books I could read on the role of a politician’s spouse. All that came up was references to ‘the good wife’, and that wasn’t quite what I had in mind.
But despite some of the personal challenges, I couldn’t be more committed to campaigning for a Labour win next year.
For me, the next election is about the sort of country we want to build together, and who we want to be to each other. It’s about whether principles and decency in public life can count for something. It is a fight for values and honesty in politics over personal smears.
So no matter how nasty it gets over the next 8 months, I’m up for the fight. Join Ed on stage today and show you are too.
We can’t do it without you.
Thanks,
Justine
Errrr…. Guys…. When Scotland gets *more* power over it’s own taxes and *more* powers become devolved… They’ll need less money from central government.
This is just the logical end game of further devolution and identical in fact to what Yes voters wanted surely!
“This is just the logical end game of further devolution and identical in fact to what Yes voters wanted surely!”
No, it’s not. Unless you think a “poisoned chalice” is supposed to be a good thing, you imbecile.
You need to look at the figures to see why it was a no vote, the majority of people surviving on the lowest pension in the EU voted NO, they voted NO because they were told via telephone canvassing and on their own doorsteps that if they voted YES they would lose their pensions!!!! Now, i personally cannot blame somebody for voting NO if they were told such nonsense, and it seems this practice was widespread. The offer of additional powers was against the Edinburgh agreement, as was the disgraceful use of the media by Westmonster, they signed the Edinburgh agreement, they broke the agreement, they signed the vow, they are now backsliding, i am simply amazed by how many well educated people actually trusted them to keep to the vow in the first place?! It’s like giving a burglar the keys to your house to make it easier for them! They have form for lies, for screwing Scotland, yet people still think they give a chit about more than just lining their pockets… 45% of us are not as easily fooled, and the numbers are growing…
Chris baxter,
I fundamentally disagree. There will always be voters who care for nobody but themselves, but in the referendum, Many people were deceived by the BBC and papers. The do not know wings over Scotland, or Newsnet Scotland, or Bella Caledonia. Even some SNP members knew nothing of these sites until very late on in the campaign.
Many NO voters did not even suspect (and still don’t) for one second that the BBC were lying to them. Why? because the BBC devotes a great deal of time and energy lying to people that it is honest, balanced and impartial. They say it all the time. All the way during the campaign, they plugged THEIR BBC website on the referendum.
Some people in Scotland have piss poor internet – ‘broadband’ that is barely better than the old dial up modems. They cannot watch streaming video, and accessing content rich websites is extremely difficult. These people relied on the BBC and have been deceived, big time.
Those people are not ("Tractor" - Ed)s and I’ll get angry at the next person who states that, the ("Tractor" - Ed)s reside in pacific Quay, John Smith House, Glasgow, 10 Downing Street and the craven London serving ‘uk’ and so-called ‘scottish’ (but English controlled) press.
Well who knew?
But its never too late to right a wrong. Let’s get to May next year and put a pro independence party with a manifesto commitment to deliver out there. For those who have already had second thoughts about their ‘no’ vote, this should confirm their misgivings. They must be made aware and reassured that it ain’t over till its over and there’s always a chance to get it right second time around. Remember we’re still trying to win hearts and minds.
No real huge surprise at the vow getting flushed within a few days. Its been an interesting few days and the various comments make interesting reading. There is no mileage at all in pursueing the “rigged” ballot IMHO, the same for protests at Pacific Quay. I have said it before but this will be spun by the MSM to make anyone taking part as either a crank or a poor loser attempting to intimidate the media. If you need proof look at how Friday night in Glasgow was reported. I know this will be an unpopular view in a lot of areas but it does nothing to advance our purpose… we know the reporting was biased enough to make Pravda look tame. What we need to do is get this message out to those who voted know so that they can make informed decisions with the correct facts. Regarding protests at PQ these will have no real effect and if anything the attendance/support for them will dwindle to the point that the only real effect they will have had is to demotivate those that take part as they will not be reported other than in the terms mention above. Its also not far from Ibrox so there is the potential for clashes with OO thugs that will be reported in such a way as to do more harm to the independence cause than good. As I said I know that this will be an unpopular point of view but I really think this is a blind alley.
A lot has been said about issues like targeting things that are important to No voters such as property values, fracking’s impact and the vested interests of people like Sir Iain Wood. It may very well have happened but was never reported or would never have been reported if it was indeed not pointed out. How can we get the information about anyone standing for public office with links to the OO, BNP, NF etc’ to their potential constituents. This needs some form of representation in the MSM and this is where energy is better spent IMHO. How can we create or get a hold of an MSM outlet that can be used to target those that we can’t currently reach or to ensure that SLAB voters that are not on social media don’t return to type. in 2015.
@Robert Louis
Please add Ian Wood to the list. A fine speech he gave to my son’s graduation group 2 mths ago. Along the lines of “Get out into the world and show truth & humility and do your utmost to build a better world”
Obviously he didn’t mean that for his own country and proved just how big a fraud he is.
@Robert Louis
Indeed. And now those Labour voters who voted Yes in disgust at ‘their’ party need to stay strong over the next few months until the GE, for the BBC has already launched its ‘the only way to beat the Tories is to vote Labour/a vote for the SNP is a wasted vote’ campaign. Both Glen Campbell and the disgraceful political editor of the Daily Record were banging that drum on GMS this morning.
I’m feeling angry, sad and righteously indignant. Why didn’t folk listen?
Oh, they’ll be bleating “We wiz duped!” But it’s too late now, no matter how much the boost in Green Party, SSP and SNP membership might revive our hopes.
We could push the SNP to run in May on a ticket of unilaterally declaring indy or Devo Max with a majority of Scottish seats, but is that going to fly in Westminster? No more Mr Nice Guy from the Tories now.
I copied the post below from here. Is there any mileage to be had in this?
link to facebook.com
So the BBC lied to you, Scotland. It is true that the Referendum Bill of 2013 forbids the CHIEF COUNTING OFFICER from recounting votes after they have been declared. But it does not forbid anyone ELSE from recounting the votes and it gives any person in Scotland the power to request and receive the register of the votes. So…you may not be able to revote (this time around) but you can all ASK FOR AND RECEIVE the full tally of votes and see what the outcome really was. And….the votes have not yet been certified. They are certified six weeks from now. So the election is not actually legally ‘over.’ You can as you see ‘bring proceedings for a petition of a judicial review’ for the next five weeks.
You need to “apply to the supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session’ to get a judicial review. And at this point we need to ask a Scottish barrister what exactly that means.
But Scotland — your process is not over. They are trying to trick you in saying the process is over. That vote count only stands if it rests for six weeks without a petition for a judicial review. Please share widely. And remember — every single one of you has the right to ask for the register of votes in your council and receive it to review it in a public place.
34Restriction on legal challenge to referendum result
(1)No court may entertain any proceedings for questioning the number of ballot papers counted or votes cast as certified by a counting officer or by the Chief Counting Officer under section 7(2)(b) or (as the case may be) (4) unless—
(a)the proceedings are brought by way of a petition for judicial review, and
(b)the petition is lodged before the end of the permitted period.
(2)In subsection (1)(b) “the permitted period” means the period of 6 weeks beginning with—
(a)the day on which the officer in question makes the certification as to the number of ballot papers counted and votes cast in the referendum, or
(b)if the officer makes more than one such certification, the day on which the last is made.
(3)In subsection (1), references to a petition for judicial review are references to an application to the supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session.
They can’t do anything to you. If you vote them out. The Liars Unionists are the most unpopular politicians in Scotland. Vote them out. The power is in your hands. Alex Salmond is the most popular politician in Scotland.
@uilleam_beag
Electoral fraud. The two outcomes had to be clearly defined for voters.
Promises made and kept. BT and Westminster made a lot of promises they have to keep and they’ve not exactly got off to a flier. 🙂
That Barnett would be cut pro-rata for every pound raised in devolved taxation was always part of the deal offered. Thus this is hardly a cut (other than the £200m annual cost of running a Scottish HMRC). So your thesis this time Stu is rather desperate I’m afraid. Your sceptical senses have deserted you here and you have fallen for the headline alone.
I’m not that gullible, sorry.
“That Barnett would be cut pro-rata for every pound raised in devolved taxation was always part of the deal offered.”
Yes, I know. That’s why the articles linked in this piece point to quotes from the UK government saying exactly that. This is exactly what we said would happen, and we REPEATEDLY pointed out that the UK parties would NOT be breaking their word by doing so. So either learn to read properly or fuck off.
Hands up all those who are surprised!
According to the Herald “Chief counting officer says no vote-rigging” – chief counting officer has said the independence referendum count was “properly conducted” following claims of vote-rigging.
Oh well that that’s ok then, perhaps the videos of a guy marking up ballot papers and another of a woman shuffling the ballot papers putting ‘Yes’ votes into the ‘No’ pile was something quite innocent and easily explained – I’m waiting for that explanation
I too have joined SNP, first time in 50 yrs I have joined any political party.
Thanks for the post Stu and for some informative and interesting comments as usual
Incredible upsurge in SNP & Green party membership which is hugely encouraging but with the focus now turning to the GE and the likelihood of a Tory government being returned, what is an achievable objective – 30+ Independence MP’s being returned? Expecting that the Independece parties can start looking at the location of their new members and where best to deploy their efforts pre-GE?
FFS what have Ian Wood and Andy Murray got to do with it. Andy Murray doesn’t even have a vote and Ian Wood is not a politician.
Justine should google the good liar who fills their boots. Who elected her. A PR company.
it’s no use just saying ‘We told you so’. You need to explain that if Scotland’s share of taxes collected in the UK (including Scotland) is being cut, and the shortfall is expected to be made up by taking Scotland AGAIN via the Scottish Parliament, this represents double taxation. It’s outrageous and needs to be challenged by somebody (SNP seems obvious starting point) who understands all the technicalities. But the basic point of double taxation needs to be RAMMED home!
I do think from this day forward, every single indy supporting politician, green, SNP or SSP, when interviewed on the BBC needs to talk about their blatant bias. They need a cachet of hard easy facts in their head, to give out any time – repeat, repeat, repeat, every single time. This urgently NEEDS done.
In addition, when issues related to CBI statements are raised, they need to ALWAYS point out that the BBC funds the CBI, and is a full member of that anti independence group.
Right now the SNP are the third largest party in the UK, so today, they need to start shouting about how their conference in Perth needs FULL BBC coverage, and not the joke pretendy coverage it gets at present. They need to start screaming about fair coverage for the GE in 2015, so they get as many party political broadcasts as Labour and Tories. They need to bang the drum, non stop, and bring this huge unfair coverage to the attention of everybody. It will work eventually.
Don’t believe me? Nigel Farage did just that. They are now talking of having him in the leadership debates with Cameron and Miliband for the GE 2015, despite not having one single freaking MP.
People say it will be hard etc.. but look SNP, you are really going to have to bite the bullet and call these liars out some time, or you will have the BBC lying 24/7 to ensure Labour win in the GE in Scotland – AGAIN.
Oh, and you really should refuse conference admission to Glenn Campbell. Time to get tough.
Do not vote for the Unionists. They will not have a mandate. They can do nothing in Scotland. The power is in your hands.
@uilleam_beag
We could push the SNP to run in May on a ticket of unilaterally declaring indy or Devo Max with a majority of Scottish seats, but is that going to fly in Westminster?
No, the real question is how would it fly in SCOTLAND. There would be a danger of a civil war – do you think the Loyalists, with their links to the UDA and the rest, would be beyond starting real trouble? And do you not realise that there are people who would give them guns? This has got to be handled so carefully….
Keep up the good work all us yes voters knew what was going to happen if we lost the vote. But Westminster didn’t bank on what is going to happen next the dream lives on and we will keep on fighting until it is realised Freedom.
I feel most for the elderly YES voters, met so many brilliant men and women at the polling station, with a fantastic attitude many saying they were voting YES for their grandchildren/great grandchildren. The sad thing is that for some it will probably have been their last opportunity to live in an independent Scotland.
O/T Please consider signing the petition for control of broadcasting for Holyrood. Lord Smith said he wants all the people of Scotland involved in his proposals for more devolution. Well, let’s give him a big message that the people want control of broadcasting for starters:
link to thepetitionsite.com
I wonder if ‘rigging’ can be added to the filter which places posts in moderation in order to keep the dross out. A lot of it (not all) seems to be coming from new or very infrequent posters.
“but with the focus now turning to the GE and the likelihood of a Tory government being returned, what is an achievable objective”
Holding the westminster unionist liars to account and deploying all available resources in a co-ordinated strategy to rid scotland of as many as possible of the labour tory and lib dem unionist MPs who lied to the scottish people and the MPs who want to try and punish scotland for daring to try and oppose their westminster masters.
Obviously that will involve targeting and the closer we get to May 2015 the better a read we will have on where and who are the most vulnerable of the westminster No MPs.
A huge and growing number of scots clearly want to fight back and protect themselves from vindictive tories and labour. There can be no better way than making our voices heard as loudly as possible at the 2015 GE.
Robert Louis
Many people were deceived by the BBC and papers.
I don’t dispute that. But you’ve already agreed that many voted No regardless of that. I’m not sure what you disagree with.
The SNP has been calling the Unionists out for liars for years. Alex Salmond has been telling the truth for years, since being an Oil economist at RBS. One of the first people to discover the Unionist (Thatcher lies) The SNP exposed the Labour Party lie’s the McCrone Report etc. Every person in Britain knows the Westminster lies. So stop blaming the SNP.
Lots of emotion which is always good to see and the difference of opinion ( copyright Winner take All) is very interesting.
Personally, I think the vast majority of No voters voted No out of self preservation rather than ignorance. I dont think lots of Scottish people care about others as much as we would hope or dream.
They may be playing the “Oh I regret it” card for now but I believe in my heart of hearts that when it comes to it, they will always look within and say “Im okay, thats what matters”.
How we convert these people, I do not know, so i would park them to the side and targe the ignorant. The first step could be:
YES Alliance Scotland (YAS) stands at GE on platform including independence and a NEW Scottish Broadcasting Corp(SBC).
YAS win enough power to negotiate delivery of new fully accountable SBC.
Main Media stranglehold on truth and spin removed ( although then you could be going down a darker road but lets address that nearer the time)
Does anyone know of any other country which rejected independence and voted to remain being told what to do by the Brutish Empire or any other empire?
I feel most for the elderly YES voters, met so many brilliant men and women at the polling station, with a fantastic attitude many saying they were voting YES for their grandchildren/great grandchildren. The sad thing is that for some it will probably have been their last opportunity to live in an independent Scotland.
At least all those heroes can rest assured that they did the right thing, unlike their NO voting peers, who willingly gave up the one and only chance they had to see independence in their lifetimes.
The referendum was a life defining moment. We are all defined by how we voted. It can never be changed.
After the first, painful 24 hours post referendum, I can now report that I am, once again, sleeping very well at night.
Anyone new on here mentioning “rigging” is obviously here because they have nowhere else to turn – moving forward is about including not excluding.
@Jim Mitchell 23 September, 2014 at 9.53 am
The thistle among the thorns
That made folk laugh : – )
I notice a journalist on BBC news this morning talking about moves needed to stop the Nationalists getting Independence by stealth………….what a bloody cheek!
Won’t have to listen to it much longer (don’t know why I still do) because I’ve now given notice to BBC that licence will no longer be required 🙂
I will be at Hollyrood parliament today about 12pm,any Wingers going.
Ken500 says:
23 September, 2014 at 9:56 am
FFS what have Ian Wood and Andy Murray got to do with it. Andy Murray doesn’t even have a vote and Ian Wood is not a politician
Ian Wood was central in the bettertogtherBBC campaign to convince voters that Scots oil would run out by 2030 Ken. He lied about being impartial too. Last year Ian Wood was encouraging kids to work in Scots oil for a great career for life.
Wood’s one of the more obvious reasons Scotland has no state oil pension fund like all other oil producers have. Guys like Wood have made unimaginable amounts of money from our natural resources while Norway invests theirs in the whole of Norway.
TeamGB, like the USA are giant kleptocracies and Ian Wood is right at the heart of it all.
TeamGB lowest wages in Europe and the US, teamGB pensions lowest in Europe. Ian Wood of Aberdeen, one of the richest men on the planet and on it goes.
How can we create or get a hold of an MSM outlet that can be used to target those that we can’t currently reach or to ensure that SLAB voters that are not on social media don’t return to type. in 2015.
_______________________________________________________
THE GUNS OF NAVARONE
The enemy’s guns are still in position.
If we don’t spike them
or create a parallel TV & Press network – not feasible,
there will be only one winner.
Thats my missus joined the SNP, the BBC license fee payment stopped and my pesion in the process of being removed from the Standard Life.
RMAC says
“There is no mileage at all in pursueing the “rigged” ballot IMHO”
And even less milage pretending no vote rigging took place,
That people stole votes seems pretty unequvical to me, I personally am aware of a young girl losing her vote as “she had already cast it” ,the legions of accusations of people “filling in” ballot papers for others,
So when we (if we ) get another chance and we lose by 50% +1 you’ll be fine with that I suppose?
link to techpresident.com
this is the way!
We keep going on about frightened pensioners voting NO because of the scare stories but the stats don’t support that. The scare stories ramped up in the last month of the campaign but Ashcroft’s poll indicated that 72% of NO’s made their mind up over a year ago. That’s almost 1.5 Million voters out of a total of 2 Million.
Of the voters who made up their minds this year they went 2 to 1 for YES. I’m not sure we could have done better.
I think we have to push hard for proper devo-max over the next 5-6 years. The SNP at Hollyrood and Westminster should make that issue their main manifesto promise. These real powers will make the transition to independence easier.
Remember that over 50% of the NO vote came from the over 55’s, by 2020 approximately 10% will have shuffled off to be better together somewhere else. Add to that the over 250,000 extra young voters who will come onto the register.
The extra powers we should have won plus the different age demographics should mean we win comfortably.
Our imperial masters won’t give up easily and I’d say the biggest danger is something along the lines of what Jack Straw was mooting the other day. A vote in WM to stop any further referendums.
‘Their Conference needs FULL BBC coverage’
‘You really should refuse conference admission to Glenn Campbell’
Or let Glenn Campbell in and slag him off. It is Taylor that attends. Cochrane, etc. Screwed up faces. Nearly got a slagging off but disappeared pronto. They don’t hang around, Too feart.
Taking the example of the errant husband begging forgiveness as the broken wife is walking out the door, he promises to change and she pauses. She then closes the door while still inside. What usually happens afterwards?
He changes not a jot, indeed possibly gets worse, and the wife shrugs and says “Hey, what you gonna do eh?”
We will soon approach that crucial point, its how we counter the apathetic people of Scotland sighing “Hey what you gonna do eh?” that will matter, to ensure we still have impetus going into Spring 2015 and building up to fight at GE.
Doesn’t matter how they previously tried to hide it in weasel words, the red tories, yellow tories and blue tories certainly didn’t order their media lackeys to go wall to wall on a VOW to cut public funds for Scotland.
All we need do is point out the reality of that and let the westminster liars worry about feeble excuses that are hardly going to to be trusted or taken very seriously now.
They will reap what they have sown.
Muscleguy
That Barnett would be cut pro-rata for every pound raised in devolved taxation was always part of the deal offered. Thus this is hardly a cut
Let’s say the current lump sum from Barnett is £30 billion*. The current lowest band income tax rate is 20%.
If £5 billion of that lump sum is cut, then to fill that budget deficit, income tax will have to be raised to cover that. So perhaps people in Scotland will be paying 25% income tax, which is 5% higher. Alternatively, the tax rate can remain 25% but massive cuts have to be made.
The Tory solution to the West Lothian Question, English only votes on debates on English matters, is being posed as a problem for Labour’s power base and its voting numbers in England. It is all about Labour and England again.
Scottish MPs sent to Westminster would only be voting on remaining UK issues, nothing else. How often are defense and foreign affairs debated?
If imposed, a Scottish MP could never again serve in cabinet or become PM. And Scots would not be appointed to the Shadow Cabinet.
Our representatives marginalised, Westminster becomes less relevant and independence more so.
Re electoral fraud…I think to put those claims in perspective, people should take a look at one of the most controversial by elections in UK history – Fermaagh/South Tyrone in 1981, when Bobby Sands, an IR hunger striker, stood against an Ulster Unionist Party candidate (the seat had been Unionist held) and WON. This represented a huge blow to the British Gov and took place in the context of a low level war with all sorts of spies, spooks and intelligence services playing all sorts of games – but Sands WON it! Maybe the Representation of the People Act actually works better than people think…
link to en.wikipedia.org
Just to add my tuppenceworth. In hindsight I feel the SNP (I have just joined) were the ones who should have focussed on the pensioners and the so-called middle classes. The grassroots movement took care of the rest through canvassing certain areas and social media etc. If we lost due to pensioners and people worried about cash then why did the SNP not forsee this? They had enough time to work it out. Further to this, I agree with some of the posters about the negative focus on the Tories, it is fact that they exist and the electing of a UKIP MEP should have been a warning to tone down that side of things. Yes talk about the democratic deficit but for everyone not just Labour and the so-called working classes.
From here on in I also agree that the energy should be harnessed purposively and to further the YES cause. The surge on SNP and Green support is great and I hope people keep joining in large numbers. We have to build on what has been a huge re-engagement with politics. Enough of the fraud shit and more of the let’s keep the passion and energy for the long road ahead. There is plenty of work to be done if we want another shot and it is up to us to see that happen.
I meant the tax can remain 20%….
The SNP need to be careful about UDI. Remember “free by 93?”
Telling people up front to vote for the SNP could result tactical voting from Tories or BLABers. At the same time, a free and democratic Scotland has always been the goal so you can’t say they weren’t warned. 😉
We also need to stop over-analysing ourselves. Political machinations take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day but we’ve gotten ourselves a cracking new amphitheatre!
Can I join the SNP only by using paypal? I prefer not to use credit cards.
From MSM today surprise surprise,cheers Gordon.
Golden Brown
I do not generally subscribe to miracles, but the transformation of the ‘No’ campaign during the Scottish independence campaign was little short of miraculous.
It was formally led by Alistair Darling, the former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Now Mr Darling is a decent man and a very able politician, but he is not a member of the rough-and-tumble school of politics which, in reality, this campaign demanded.
His logic, like his courtesy, was always impeccable, but he lacked the fiery equipment to deal with the rough-house tactics which, sadly, engulfed the election, particularly in its later stages.
He would have been the ideal man to lead a campaign in say prim Frinton-on-Sea but seemed totally unsuitable for the rough end of Glasgow.
And that is why, as the campaign entered its closing stages with ‘Yes’ in the up and up, the ‘No’ vote grandees began to panic.
It was at this stage, I suspect, that Mr Darling was quietly led into the shade, and Gordon Brown was unofficially handed the unofficial helm.
He is normally a growly, not very inspiring speaker. But his rip-roaring, splendidly rabble-rousing performance on the eve of the poll, was simply a classic – probably the best and most effective speech he ever made.
It is no exaggeration to suggest that it was the key factor in the ‘No’ triumph.
Brown should have entered the fray much earlier than he did.
Meanwhile, a knighthood should be on the horizon.
Soon enough there will be an organised campaign to end the TV Tax and replace it with a subscription based model like every other normal pay TV channel and service.
That will have to be done entirely on the grounds of fairness (which the license fee is most definitely not) for it to be taken seriously and create a groundswell.
Those who want to punish the BBC for their disgusting bias right now can stop paying the TV Tax but getting rid of it completely and replacing it with something better like a subscription model should obviously be the medium term goal.
The thing that disturbs me the most about this site and other similar sites, is the lack of courage from all sorts of people pontificating their opinion, with an alias Why should any of you be considered seriously when you can’t even represent as yourself. You might ask what’s in a name? my response EVERY THING. If you are too scared to be yourself I suggest you take you and your name and piss off.
My name is James Dow and I live in Melbourne Australia and can be easily found for anyone who wishes.
It truly is symbolic of the fear factor that inhabits the Scotland of today.
@Chris Baxter
What government is going to raise Taxes in Scotland so they are higher than in England? It wont happen. Services will be cut or privatised, goodbye Scottish Water etc.
Win win for the Tories here sadly
The article is good, and the headline good, for making people aware and keeping their eyes on the VOW.
It does say clearly in the article that No 10 says that the Barnett is in place, but would reduce as fiscal powers are devolved to Scotland.
This is a wait and see thing, not one to go off on yet.
When the cuts arrive here I hope the SG will cut everything for the pensioners, bus passes, winter fuel allowance, any other allowance that affects pensioners, the pension etc before they cut the money from the young and needy.
Now I know that it will hurt fantastic pensioners who voted YES (I am one) but those who voted NO need to suffer so they can appreciate fully what they did. If we look after them so they never notice the pain they would do exactly the same again.
I am in pain even thinking this but they need to feel the grief their actions will cause for the many.
Ian Wood has been saying the Oil will run out for forty years. No one listened to him then and no one listens to him now. Ian Wood worked 70 hours a week to build up a successful company and – created jobs for millions of well paid people and brought £Billions into Scotland. Tried to give £80Million (back?) to the City of Aberdeen to pedestrianised the City. Unionists knocked it back.
Any wealth Ian Wood acquired is now in a Foundation to help the most vulnerable in the world. The legacy Pay back. £50Million has already gone to Africa. £Millions to the Uni and young people. Now shut the fuck up about Ian Wood. How much have the critics given to Africa?
( We told you so #2 )
They told us so #1 #2 #3 #4, the Deef , Dumb , N Blind,
didnt want to know ( an I dont mean the deef, dumb n
blind in the physical sence ) the Disabled will suffer
more as will every other person in Scotland. Is it to
early to request a we song for all those that voted No
Wee Edif Pee’d AFF NO Regres enjoy.
Its the only way of travel. Point out those areas where YES campaigns warnings are proven to have been accurate and jump on any part of their pledges they haven’t fulfilled to the letter. Return as many pro independence representatives to Westminster as possible next may and in 2016 fill Holyrood with a rainbow alliance. Eject and reject Labour and their cronies most especially. Basically make Scotland as ungovernable as possible for the buggers.
Somehow I doubt we’ll be waiting twenty years for a second bite. 🙂
@CM
Maybe you could join using a Paypal credit card, if you don’t have one they’re easy to get.
desimond
What government is going to raise Taxes in Scotland so they are higher than in England? It wont happen. Services will be cut or privatised, goodbye Scottish Water etc.
I completely agree. By raising income tax and other taxes, businesses would be driven south, so it would defeat the purpose.
Cuts it is. Something that muscleguy doesn’t seem to grasp.
@CM
If you can get gold of an SNP membership leaflet to post you can even pay by cheque/postal order.
Sadly I’m not too sure about PayPal so maybe someone else can help?
James Dow – yeah, cos that’s the most important thing to talk about right now. Jeez.
@John King
“So when we (if we ) get another chance and we lose by 50% +1 you’ll be fine with that I suppose?”
I never said that, the point that I am trying to make is that it can more successfully be used against us while we currently have no means to defend ourselves in the MSM.
“KEEP THIS SITE SOMEWHERE YOUR GRANNY COULD READ”
WE’RE LUCKY TO HAVE IT,MODERATE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY,OTHERS ARE WATCHING,KEEP US ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE OPPOSITION, I DONT MEAN TO LECTURE, BUT I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT I’M SAYING
Do the Scottish people a big favour and solve the conundrum of the West Lothian Question at the same time by booting Curran, Davidson, Murphy, plus the Alexander Ugly Sisters et al, out of Westminster at the general election. 🙂
@ken500
I don’t give a toss that Ian Wood gives millions to Africa or anywhere else. Pro rata I’ll bet I give more money to charity than he does. I care that the NO campaign used his intervention to rubbish figures presented by the SG (even although they were his own figures).
So although I’ve never sworn on this site in over 18 months, you shut the fuck up.
@Dr Jim
Something else you should add to your list, please do not use cap locks.
@desimond
I like the analogy. We’re only 4 days in though! No honeymoon period at all.
This is the equivalent of closing the door, turning round to be punched in the face, chained up and made to watch while you partner shags the neighbours.
With the more tax raising powers to the SG I hope they tax the middle classes and rich more only.
@Ken 500 – Ian Wood is a lying scumbag! now you STFU.
Right ive got something to say those who are both raging at it all and to those who are perhaps losing heart –
We were never going to be allowed to walk away with trillions of pounds worth of oil. Ok? Even if this referendum had gone to YES then the political and financial elite would have done everything in their power to bankrupt Scotland and then retake control of us with a ‘we told you so’. For example the APPLE corporation alone is about twice the size of Scotland. The global banking cartel would have set to work on us and that would have been the end.
Now that sounds incredibly negative until you take into consideration what has happened.
We got a NO vote this time around and because of that we are mobilizing into a peoples movement – trying to organize our own banks, broadcasting etc. We are increasing our awareness and becoming less naive about how the world works. Most importantly – we are becoming a leaderless movement, which is the most unstoppable of all organisations.
The fact that ANYBODY was surprised by the media tactics in the referendum and of the actions of Westminster shows that people need to be educated on how the world really works and not on the fluffy little bubble that many still seem to believe we live in.
That education is being provided now. When we do get independence we will be politically hardened, aware of the true nature of the global financial system and the predatory institutions that use it to their profit and to the enslavement of everyone else. We will not just be a nation – we will be real culture, a society with our own tools to make things happen the way we want them to happen even before we get official independence.
We have a precedent already in Iceland. A country whose people rejected the banks and their political puppets and are now making their country work for them.
We can do away with food banks and get our local councils to allow pieces of unused land in cities to be utilized for food production. Imagine what statement we would be making – we dont have food banks, we have public farms. So stick your capitalist control of food right up your arse!
The possibilities are endless particularly if we have a people friendly party in Holyrood with the clout to defend the people from Westminster.
But what you need to do is take a deep breath and understand that this is a process. We are not going to be able to lash out and get things the way we want. The beast that is Westminster (and the forces behind that institution) will only be slowly beaten by a concentrated effort of self betterment for the people of Scotland in the realms of politics, constitutional reform, societal awareness, charity, application of technology for social well being, education (political, economic and otherwise) and many others. We must relax and focus and take the opportunities that come. We must become the country we want to see without looking for permission first.
We must reach out to others in the U.K also, we must be sharing ideas with our English, Welsh and Irish neighbors and the more informed of them will be our allies as they have been for centuries. Nothing will wake up the masses more than a quiet, peaceful revolution that educates the people and provides for the destitute.
Revolution in the 21st century doesnt involve arms. Ballot boxes cannot be trusted either (as we have seen) – it involves doing things a different and better way.
@Achnababan says: 23 September, 2014 at 8:43 am:
“On the subject of communication – I feel the SNP leadership are also guilty of talking ‘to’ journalists rather than talking ‘through’ journalists.!
Balderdash, Achnababan, no one in Scotland gets the choice of speaking either to or through the Scottish media. This is the second post on this topic where you have accused the SNP and I’ll assume for the moment you are just misled and hope you are not an enemy within.
Here is a perfect example of how no one in Scotland gets to choose how the totally Westminster Establishment funded and controlled media act exactly as they are ordered to by their Westminster masters.
It begins with a BBC edited news item reporting upon a Press Conference for the International Press Brigade. The BBC’s Nick Robinson is thus only a member of that Press Brigade in the audience. The BBC news Item is followed by an unedited video clip taken from that part of the conference. It shows Nick Robinson not only being very aggressive towards the independence movement but heckling the First Minister before the World’s Press Corp. It shows that the claim he got no answer is a total lie for the FM spends several minutes demolishing Robinson before the International press corp.Yet the BBC felt confident they could tell the complete opposite story and get away with it.
Sadly the BBC were right for not a single MSM outlet has exposed the BBC for what they are.
Here’s the link<(correctly posted this time, I hope), Sorry Rev Stu!
youtube.com/watch?v=Ug5q0jfRz68
3 important points.
1. Demand independence, and you might just get devo nano. (That folks is actually what has JUST happened).
2. Ask for devo max, and you will get nothing. We all know what devo max is, but the BBC and mainstream media will misrepresent it – just as they did during the referendum campaign. It will become vague, and diluted.
3. Only a quest for independence keeps the attention of London, anything less, will just be ignored.
If we or the SNP decide now to talk of devo max, we may as well go and piss in the wind. Our opponents will ridicule us, saying ‘oh first they wanted independence, but now they don’t, now they just want devo max, or something – can’t make up their minds etc..etc..’, and so on. They really will go for the jugular. You either stand for independence or you don’t.
We have the momentum, so let’s not stop now.
Let’s stop letting London set the agenda going forward. Independence or nothing – I have no intention of spending years of my life campaigning for independence, to then turn around and say, oh well never mind, let’s have devo max.
It’s time to fight, not wilt.
P.S. I am not suggesting another referendum is needed by the way. By gaining a majority of pro indy MP’s, we can essentially remove the mandate from London, and make Scotland ungovernable. Prior to the Scottish Parliament, it was regularly stated by Westminster (rather smugly in fact), that if Scots want independence, they needed to elect a majority of pro indy MP’s in Scotland. THAT is exactly what we will do – whilst also destroying British Labour’s presence in Scotland.
Quentin Quale Get over yourself Quentin {cute name} It’s always important to be your self especially when you have an opinion that you want considered seriously. That’s never off topic Quentin just had to use your name again too cute. You need new friends, the one’s you have are far too serious, presuming you have any of course.
RMAC SAYS
“I never said that”
Well, without picking on you personally RMAC
it would be super duper if the people keen to “move on” didnt paint the people who want to learn lesson as conspiracy nuts.
I do think man landed on the moon,
JFK Was killed by a lone gunman,(not the mafia)
There is no such think as the Illuminati
And Adolf Hitler did indeed die in the bunker,
jus sayin s’all
It wasn’t just unionists who voted against wood’s ‘memorial’ I did too. I did not want another flipping concrete shopping mall/car-park in the centre of our town, converting beautiful gardens into a concrete wilderness, naw I dinna think so.
@David (10.53) –
Hear hear.
Well said David, AYE
‘Let’s stop letting London set the agenda going forward. Independence or nothing – I have no intention of spending years of my life campaigning for independence, to then turn around and say, oh well never mind, let’s have devo max.’
Well said, RL. The idea that Westminster will ‘grant’ devo max is for the birds. And the idea that we should expend energy campaigning for devo max is even more ludicrous.
Jim Murphy to replace Johann Lamont.
Maybe last Thursday will lay to rest this “a positive campaign will always beat a negative one” nonsense. It’s horses for courses – some folk need a carrot, others need a stick. The above phrase might apply for an ordinary political election, but this was something else entirely, with no precedent.
How often did you see a debate where it was brought up that a separate Scotland couldn’t have bailed out the 2 “Scottish banks” and this went totally unchallenged by the Yes side? They should’ve been straight down their throats. We were too happy-clappy.
Jim McIntosh says:
23 September, 2014 at 10:25 am
Our imperial masters won’t give up easily and I’d say the biggest danger is something along the lines of what Jack Straw was mooting the other day. A vote in WM to stop any further referendums.
There are many ways to skin a cat. I do agree that the 55+ “baby boomers” are still a big problem, however. Some were undoubtably duped by the three stooges, but the vast majority just stubbornly refuse to budge, even though it is now evident that all younger age groups support independence. I think they could be persuaded to support real devo max (full fiscal autonomy, all powers except defence and foreign affairs). If we unite and push a devo max ticket at the 2015 GE, we could wipe out Scottish Labour.
Robert Peffers.
Calm down sir! I have been an SNP member for 25 years so I am a friend within. I think you have misunderstood my post
What I mean is that the SNP communication strategy must be based around the reality of a hostile media. The messaging has to become more direct and less easy to misconstrue by perfidious journalists.
For example:
No to Tax
Yes to Revenues
Alex Salmond loves political process and enjoyed toying with the media … I think the next SNP leader needs to be more forthright and determined.
Right now they need to let people know in no uncertain terms that the devo powers on offer are a poisoned chalice! Stop pussy footing around with Brian Taylor and his ilk!
If there is going to be a new scottish combined party we need to start looking ahead – not fighting with each other. We need to show how woeful the uk parties are.
For instance, we just saw today that osborne’s forecast for the national debt was way out – an increase not decrease shows that the austerity policies aren’t working. More importantly labour are going to adopt these policies.
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
James Dow,
Jim Dow,
Firstly, James Dow (Alias:Jim Dow) of Melbourne Australia, telling people on here to “piss off”, is pretty extreme – maybe you should apologise.
Secondly, James Dow of Melbourne Australia, some people use an alias for many, many quite valid reasons – this does not imply they are not genuine.
Thirdly, James Dow of Melbourne Australia, grow up.
Overcame a lifetime of resistance to joining any political party, especially one with “national” in the title, and joined the SNP yesterday. I thought AS speech to his Constitueny Association was excellent and when I saw the appallingly bilious MSM front pages the next day my mind was made up. We must support whichever group we can.
These people, like Stu, are on the front line and viciously attacked by the political elite and their corporate allies. That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. If we want change we have to make it ourselves.
As Andy Murray said “Let’s do this”!
48,602 and still climbing
How many Tories are there in the UK?
The majority vote for the UTG project. Democracy,
Aye the knives are being sharpened at the labour conference. Who’s for the chop?
Just took a ganders at Ed Millie’s face and its a grim picture.
Labour and the Tories will shaft Scotland financially but rather than exposing it, here is what the mainstream media will do. They will trot out platitudes about how wonderfully devo maxy it all is and how clever the electorate were in staying in the union and wringing concessions from Westminster, and then heap black shame on the SNP Government for cutting funding to x, y & z.
All we can do is bang on to our friends and family – in as dispassionate an unalienating way as possible – about what is really happening. And then once we’ve planted the possibility in people’s heads, we need to hope for a BBC documentary along the lines of Diomhair, as many won’t actually believe the UK Government is shafting them until they hear it from the BBC.
link to en.ria.ru
Ian Wood said on BBC in 2012 that there were up to 25 billion barrels of oil to be recovered, yet shortly before the referendum he says that there are only 15 to 16.5 billion barrels. This is despite advances in recovery, and his own report in Feb / March that moving the regulator to Aberdeen will help sharing and increase the recovery because of allowing small players more access.
Forked tongue.
AHA
Douglas Carswell, the Conservative MP, has previously warned that the party is “haemorrhaging” members because of David Cameron and his “remote clique” at Westminster.
The party had earlier this year refused to release the figures amid claims that the number may have fallen below 100,000.
Membership of both the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties has fallen in recent years.
However, with a membership of around 187,537, Labour’s numbers are much better than their Conservative rivals.
So folks, that is it 50,000 to the SNP and less that 100,000 to the UK’s Tories.
Not long now.
Scottie dog,
Very well said. It seems to me there are quite a few false flag operatives on here, trying to sow division, and arguments – calling No voters ("Tractor" - Ed)s and so on. It’s all designed to cause arguments.
Fortunately, most can see through it.
@Robert Louis
I agree with you to some extent, but as I pointed out above, with over 1.4 million voters having made up their mind to vote NO over a year ago we aren’t going to get a majority of indy MPs elected on a UDI platform in the near future.
Surely better to get them in there first with a devo-max manifesto. Assuming they are elected, if we get devo-max all the better for when indy comes. If devo-max powers are blocked, we then go to the electorate at the next election and say, ‘look we’re wasting our time here, we need independence’.
It’s a medium to long game – and some of us might not be here to see it, but I see us independent in 10 years at the outside. That might seem depressing, because of what was almost in our grasp, but next time we will have 70%+ of the population behind us making the transition within the country easier.
SNP and Green Party Policy has NOT altered.
Both party policies advocate Independence via a referendum.
Clear and simple.
When SNP WON a majority in Govt in 2011- I wrote to AS proposing he submit a “Unilateral Declaration of Independence” – only to be informed that the Policy was Indy Ref.
Having voted all my life for SNP – the sole route to Indy available back in the 60`s – I took a conscious decision NEVER TO JOIN any political party.
SNP Policy can only be changed at party conference.
Any proposal for “UDI” must follow procedure and will not be acceptable at this year`s conf.because it`s too late in the conf cycle.
Emergency Procedures not withstanding.?
Anyone who thinks we can start demanding Indy 5 days after a No clearly has their head up their arse.
Granted, some are relatively new to campaigning and don’t realise just how long it took to even get this far but they need to calm the fuck down.
We now look to 2015 and booting as many of the westminster unionist liars out as we can and it’s going to be a great many of them. 😉
So have a glance at the SNP and Green membership soaring for those who inexplicably think we don’t know what we’re doing. Pretty spectacular endorsement of what got us here in the first place, is it not?
Here comes the pain …but hopefully, this will also drive those who voted ‘No’ towards the ‘Yes’ camp. Can still see a new referendum being called if we can barnstorm the Scottish Parliament in 2016.
It ain’t over!
@Dave Sammy Wilson is DUP….as friendly to an independent Scotland as is the Orange Order (In fact, Sammy is a member). Dismiss him and his rants, in other words.
As FM protocol require that the Press etc is not criticised. A free Press. FM has duties which are consolidatary. They represent the whole Nation. A FM can’t break rules of protocol.
Bugger (the Panda) says:
130,000. It would be highly unlikely to even get near that, unless the mysterious process of going viral happens (or we can persuade some of the many disappointed expats to join). A doubling of the pre-referendum membership to 50,000 is about to happen though.
Test
@ Ken500, the whole Ian Wood point here is the fact on the one hand he told young people at the end of last year to invest their future in the now UK oil and gas expro industry.
And then same super rich maniac tells same young people that the oil and gas he said would give them a job for life will peak in 16 years and be gone soon after.
Ian Wood takes his place in that historic parcel of rogues that sold their country for cash or as the say the Sunday Post puts it
“During an interview with EnergyVoice.com, Sir Ian contradicted the Scottish Government’s own figures for remaining North Sea resources and tax income.
He said that even with further tax breaks and less complex regulation in the North Sea, only a further 15-16.5 billion barrels of oil equivalent (boe) are likely to be recovered.
The Scottish Government has been using 24 billion boe as its central prediction, which is 45-60% above Sir Ian’s estimate.
Sir Ian also believes the Scottish Government’s central prediction of £7 billion per annum tax income from oil and gas over the next five years is £2 billion per annum too high. This difference represents £370 less for every person in Scotland every year.”
If there’s a circle in hell for UKOK liars and kleptomaniacs, its going to be packed out
O/T but there you are. DotScot General Release today for those who want to have a Scottish domain, with DotScot e-mail addresse to follow soon.
Not on BBC of course, there’s been a barn fire somewhere.
Panda, where you seeing this? I can’t find it on SNP.org….
I saw a video of a guy after the referendum saying basically bring on your cuts,we voted for it. I agree, the Scottish Government has protected Scotland very well,too well in actual fact. Those who voted no are about to receive a shock.Jobs will eventually have to go and only then will they realise what they have done.
Unfortunately,these cuts will take out yes voters as well in the process.
Yep, here comes the pain …hopefully, more and more No voters will now move towards Yes once the cuts bite in. If we can take the Parliament in 2016, then a I believe a new referendum will be called.
That source article is behind the Times paywall so people won’t read the full text. Here is an excerpt:
“A source at No 10 said that Westminster would keep to its promise to retain the formula, but added that it would reduce as Scotland gained more fiscal powers under devolution.
“It’s not a change to the Barnett formula per se,” said the source. “But the more control a devolved administration has over its ability to raise and spend funds, the proportion subject to the Barnett formula decreases.”
A spokesman for John Swinney, the Scottish finance minister, said that the suggestion that Barnett funding should be cut to offset any new financial powers “simply underlines how modest the Westminster parties’ proposals are”.
The Conservatives’ change in tone followed a meeting to discuss English home rule convened by David Cameron at Chequers at which some MPs voiced discontent about Barnett.
“Some vehemently dislike the fact that Scots get more than the English,” said one source. “The majority present agreed that a promise is a promise, but the key to it is fiscal devolution. Let them set their own rate of income tax and keep that tax and a bit extra, then the Barnett formula doesn’t apply to a greater sum of money any more.””
So Scotland will get a smaller block grant as it gets its own tax raising powers to earn money from income tax directly. Complaining about that is like complaining that your Jobseekers’ Allowance stops when you get a job. Also, you’ve got the be fair.
Please do not react to headlines – read the source article yourself and any sources that it relies on in turn, if need be.
There are no grounds currently, I believe, for saying the three leaders have reneged on their vows. What is it exactly that commenters think they have done that breaks the pledge?
The furore regarding UK Labour’s claims that the NHS is under threat, with people accusing them of having lied last week when they said that independence was not the only way to protect the NHS – misplaced. UK Labour were referring to NHS England and Wales. NHS Scotland is devolved and whether or not it is privatised is up to the Scottish government.
Finally, the Clair oil field – nobody was keeping it a secret. Anyone who bothered to read Sir Ian Wood’s report would have seen it in there.
James Dow,
We tried that one night months ago but then no one could remember who was who.
Just recently, I mentioned someone who we had met, didn’t seem to be posting anymore to another poster (face to face, not online). He assured me that the person was still posting but under their own name but he couldn’t remember the name.
Why is it acceptable for westmonster to adopt a position of ‘Only Kidding’ whilst Scotland are expected to remain honourable. There may be the letter of the law but there is also the spirit of the law. For to long we have accepted our politicians saying one thing and delivering another. The referendom was about Scotland’s asperations.
Like most people I would like to see progress in England, Wales and Northern Ireland too although it is perhaps time for them to grow a pair and hold their political class to a standard where they earn the ‘Right honourable’ that is bestowed often without merit.
Interesting to read that Conservative membership might now be under 100,000! I suppose that is possible – the average age of Conservative party members must be over 65, and climbing.
The majority were going to vote YES. 60%. 25% of the No voters changed their mind in the last week. After the illegal, lying appeals from Cameron and Brown. Purdah.
Vote the Unionist out so they can’t illegally lie again. They will have no mandate to do anything in/to Scotland. Independence by another avenue.
3 no voters vs me at work. Reasons for no were 1. We’ve a,ways had the union( check your history, no we haven’t) 2. A didnae want it( it’s not a free ice cream,ffs)3. Didn’t agree with 16 year olds getting the vote, tried to rig it to get a win. There is no changing the minds of these three people. Some arguments make no sense and those who hold them dear will listen to no sense. I suspect that they won’t change UNTIL they are hit in the pocket. When they are I suspect that “told you so” won’t help so remember to be inclusive to the 55.
guy on sky news
cruise misslies are very accurate
while reports on a Syrian family wiped out
These people have no limits do they? how about another inref or just straight out declare independece
well worth a read
link to stateofthenation2012.com
david
agreed!
we must disentangle ourselves from as much external control freakery as is possible, this will take time, but it will create a stronger and stronger foundation for indy.
ie the less corporate control over scotland the better, slowly but surely remove it’s power.
i like the work of the jimmy reid foundation, as it makes an awful lot of sense.
Tories have around 139,000 members. Labour 190,000.
link to parliament.uk
Their appears to be a new affliction going around, its called ” it wisn’a me “, for some strange reason no-one I have spoken to voted NO, absolutely no one.
Well apart from my mother, but it was my wife who spoke to her, and after the word pension cut the conversation and phone call short.
But please watch out for this strange affliction it may be spreading.
re: the Barnett formula
I do not see hard information about what is proposed.
As I understand it there are two possibilities at least
On the one hand some of the income tax raised in Scotland would be kept in Scotland: then the barnett formula grant would be reduced pound for pound and there would be no net change. That renders the income tax raising powers which would be devolved meaningless. Income tax would have to be set at the same rate as elsewhere and that is what happened with the ostensible tax raising powers the Scottish government had in the past
On the other hand what is being whipped up is resentment about higher public spending in Scotland than elsewhere. This is specifically targeted at Scotland although there are disparities between english regions as well. It seems to me that resentment can only be assuaged by reducing public spending in Scotland to the english average. That would entail reducing the barnett grant by more than the amount raised from Scottish income tax
This second seems to me to be the more likely outcome
As gutted as I feel just now, the one thing I feel is that we never appealed to the small ‘c’ conservatives in Scotland. They won’t vote for david cameron , but, they won’t vote for a socialist Scotland either. We need to reach everyone.
Scotland was going to vote YES 60%. The game changer was Unionists Cameron and Brown who decided to illegally tell lies to retain their tax evading wealth.
It was not the over 55’s. It was not the 18- 24, it was not the BBC/Press. It was lying Unionists. Just vote them out. Scotland has Independence.
@Kevin
We will do what we are told, that’s. what the NO’s wanted , now they will reap the shit they’ve sown
____
We are all going to reap the shit they have sown, not only no voters.
I’m 62 and a yes person but I didn’t get a vote because I live in England. I’m coming home in the next couple of years and I was looking forward to returning to an Independant Scotland and my Scottish passport, maybe after the vote to leave EU we can try again.
More should be made of the oil reserves under the Firth of Clyde which Westminster stops us from exploiting. More of getting rid of APD to encourage tourism. And more on a Scottish currency whatever its called tied to Sterling until there are enough reserves to go it alone.
BTW why not set-up a Scottish National Oil company as they have in Norway and a Scottish National Energy Company that can compete with the Big 6 for gas and electricity comsumers if priced right you can in effect nationalise energy supply by pricing the others out of the market and even start selling in England.
Now is the time to get started so we are ready for these guys next time round.
One can dream.
The whole Ian Wood thing is a diversion. A Press diversion. Do not fall for it.
Some comment is getting acerbic and belligerent: by all means let’s debate, discuss – passionately; but let’s not fall into the mistake of splintering our new found common politic. Those without a voice are depending on us. let’s keep it together ….. for Scotland’s sake … for hope’s sake.
Just read a couple of postings on Derek Bateman’s blog about a suggestion for an Independence Think Tank to fight back against all the lies. We need to be united, so it could be a way forward. 2 Posts by Broadbield here: link to derekbateman.co.uk
SNP-YES Event
Host: John Swinney MSP
Location: Moncreiffe Suite, Salutation Hotel, Perth
Time & date: 1pm to 4:30pm, Sunday 28th September 2014
Terms: open to anyone
Purpose: —–How to keep the YES vision moving
——————Continuing to engage all YES campaigners
e-mail andrewparrott57@hotmail.com to confirm your attendance for seating & free buffet purposes
The Press like to divide and rule and create diversions. It lines their pockets and wastes folk’s time.
YES FOREVER
Did someone say that Murphy has replaced Lamont?
All Sir Ian Wood chat to the BBC in Scotland less a year ago but 10 months is a long time in teanGB
“Without overdramatising that, I believe we’ll have North Sea oil in reasonably strong shape for the next 20 or 30 years – that’s a long time.
“But what we mustn’t do is wait until 25 years’ time when it starts going down and say ‘Oh god, what are we going to do now? – we’d better start investing’.
‘Maximising recovery’
“We’ve produced 41 billion barrels,” he said. “If you look ahead, we could still produce another 25 billion barrels – at $100 a barrel, that’s $2,500bn.
“If we don’t get it right, we’ll produce about half that – we could lose $1,250bn of economic contribution to the UK
“We really have to have the UK government focused on maximising recovery and what’s still to come from the North Sea.
“They are beginning to recognise that.
Also Ken500, the maniac didn’t want to pedestrianise Aberdeen. He wanted to gut the heart of my home city and build some kind of giant shopping mall.
He failed, but only by chance though and instead of £50mn going to this horrific vanity project, it went to charity instead. I lie, it stayed in Sir Ian’s multi billion cash mountain.
Rule Britannia
Ken500
“Just vote them out. Scotland has Independence.”
yes we must!
Most people are a bit quiet today, but there are still a few smug NO voters going around the workplace, laughing how certain people are not speaking to them.
They still cannot see what’s coming down the track at breakneck speed.
Incredible.
A question: if Scotland returns a majority of Indy Alliance MPS in May 2015 GE and they declare UDI, will the EU, NATO, UN etc recognise this as a legitimate vote? It seems to me that these bodies will only recognise the vote if Westminster agrees. Would this not then lock Scotland out of the EU etc (ala Kosovo)?
@WrinkleyReborn,
It’s history, but the Yes campaign was too ‘nice’.
Trouble is that they had to be given that us nationalists were considered a rabid small minority. 45% is worthy of respect, it’s a different ball game now.
It would be glorious and indeed utterly hilarious if on the same day wee Ed Miliband made his big speech the SNP membership also hit 50,000.
Can you imagine the blind panic, fear and utter terror from the ‘scottish’ labour contingent at the labour conference right now?
Gerrriitriightupye! 😀
Peter Murrell latest re snp membership…
Roaring through 23,000 new @theSNP members, now 48,642 of us and counting. Be part of it and help make a difference: link to my.snp.org
@ IheartScotland
Yep, we’re still here but this time we’re angry.
I know you fellow 45’ers hardly need any more inspiration to keep the fight going, but here is some icing for you:
Picture a smug, little John McTernan on TV at the weekend, when quizzed by a reporter if there would be another independence referendum in 20 years.
“Ah yes, but by then, half the oil will be gone so it will be too late!”
Haw Haw Haw.
Rev, if I remember correctly, there were pills after the device referendum were more people claimed to have voted Yes than actually did. How about a crowd-funded poll to demonstrate the opposite effect occurring now? Along with some questions analysing the reasons for voting.
The Eggman cometh!
PANIC breaks out at Labour conf!! 😀
Labour in crisis in Scotland: Leadership in-fighting erupts with Jim Murphy in poll position to replace Johann Lamont
Rumours swirl at party conference that Scottish leader Lamont will quit
Comes just days after the historic referendum rejecting independence
Jim Murphy, who toured 100 towns during campaign, on course for job
link to dailymail.co.uk
@Achnababan says: 23 September, 2014 at 11:05 am:
“Calm down sir!”
Whatever makes you imagine I am anything but calm?
“I think you have misunderstood my post”
I assure you I have no problems comprehending exactly what I read. If I have not understood exactly what you meant then perhaps the fault is yours and not mine.
“What I mean is that the SNP communication strategy must be based around the reality of a hostile media. The messaging has to become more direct and less easy to misconstrue by perfidious journalists.”
As I pointed out already, I went to the considerable bother to downloading the two opposing video clips, and without editing the actual two clips, making the short video and then uploading the complete clip back up to YouTube in order to make the salient point that no matter what the message, no matter its content and no matter its intent the BBC and Westminster controlled media of all types can, has and will continue to propagate the message as they wish it to be and not as the SNP, or any other organ the Westminster Establishment considers to be an enemy of the Establishment, intend it to be.
“For example:
No to Tax
Yes to Revenues
Tell me,Achnababa, just what do you imagine I, personally, could do with a bit of video editing to any statement of, “No to Tax – Yes to Revenues”? Remember I’m just a life-long amateur and the BBC and MSM are vastly resourced professionals? Also they are funded my The Establishment.
“Right now they need to let people know in no uncertain terms that the devo powers on offer are a poisoned chalice! Stop pussy footing around with Brian Taylor and his ilk!
Going to tell us all just how you imagine the SNP, or indeed the entire Independence Movement are going to achieve that when the Westminster Establishment controls ALL the media except the social media on-line and even there where we are greatly outnumbered by the combined English, Welsh, Northern Irish and even the Scottish anti-independence people on-line social media?
Witness what they have just done to Andy Murray’s declaration of supporting independence. Free speech is, as far as the Establishment is concerned, only free if you are on their side.
There is only one answer – we must have a media outlet that attracts the Scottish people of all political shades to listen/view the truth. Where in Scotland would that be allowed to exist by the Establishment? We cannot even control who gets the revenue from out own Scottish waters. Witness the 6,000 sq mls of Scottish waters grabbed by the establishment and notice who was the authors of that theft.
Polls and devolution, obviously. Sorry
@Ian brotherhood,
Murphy can’t replace lamont. This is the BLAB in Scotland, they would need to have a vote, inform the unions, Etc. It’s not like they can behave undemocratically with their members!
Also, in order to go head to head with his biggest Scottish rival, he would have go to Holyrood. Someone would have to stand down as he couldn’t added to the list which means a by-election. The SNP now have an extra 20K pairs of legs to walk the streets and get the message out. IMO, BLAB would never risk it. There is no such thing as a safe seat.
We don’t need to be especially radical. 45% supported Independence as it was. All that’s required is to keep to the same strategy, and the UK Government will do all that’s required to shift a good few percent.
Stay steady, stay true, and stay honest, and stay progressive.
The Barnett formula being cut will push a few more percent.
A 2015 Tory/UKIP will push a few more percent our way.
A 2017 EU out vote will push even more percent our way.
They’ll muck it up themselves. Let them.
When will Murphy replace Lamont, we don’t go to the polls until May 16 or is he simply replacing as Leader of North Britain Labour and staying at Westminster?
@ Shuggy
Agree with more careful targeting of those who think they have more to lose with independence, e.g. fracking, potential collapse of UK economy, etc.
We need everyone, working class in my family voted Yes. Middle class voted no. It’s not about class or money, the way forward is not about apportioning blame, it’s about an independent decent Scotland.
Tackety Beets – had a mesaage from an old work colleague of mine over the weekend saying we should target “heavy hearted No’s” of which he himself was one. Concerns were that the whole economic outlook hadn’t been explained properly and he wasn’t willing to take that leap of faith. Don’t necessarily agree with him but just passing on info which may prove useful.
Tackety Beets – had a message from an old work colleague of mine over the weekend saying we should target “heavy hearted No’s” of which he himself was one. Concerns were that the whole economic outlook hadn’t been explained properly and he wasn’t willing to take that leap of faith. Don’t necessarily agree with him but just passing on info which may prove useful.
Murphy/Lamont–a scenario
Murphy ousts Lamont but has to get a seat in Holyrood. Some numpty SLAB MSP in a “safe seat” stands down (on promise of a peerage or something). Election held, SNP throws everything into the fight and wins because the voters understand they are being taken for granted. Murphy limps off back to Westminster.
Unlikely, but would be great.