The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Diluting the poisoned chalice

Posted on August 28, 2014 by

This story from earlier this month is now the third most-read in Wings history. But there was an aspect of the revelations in the Future Of England survey that we didn’t touch on, and it’s worth picking up now.

“Voters in England are also inclined to support greater autonomy for a post-No Scotland than do the pro-union parties. For instance, 42% of people in England support the idea that ‘The Scottish Parliament should be given control over the majority of taxes raised in Scotland’, something that only 25% disagree with. 

This would appear to place people in England at the maximal end of the various proposals that have been put forward for further-reaching Scottish devolution, and significantly beyond the modest reform proposals put forward by the Labour Party.”

And that’s quite an interesting finding, because it means that Scottish Labour – the self-proclaimed “party of devolution” – now actually wants LESS tax-raising power for the Scottish Parliament than just about anyone else anywhere in the entire UK.

The SNP, of course, want ALL tax powers (and all other powers) to come to Holyrood. The Tories and the Lib Dems both want a significantly higher proportion of Scottish tax revenues raised by the Scottish Parliament than Labour do. Countless polls have found that the people of Scotland want control of all tax AND welfare. And now we know that the people of England and Wales feel the same way.

So why are Scottish Labour so shy? Why are they offering less than everyone else? What do they know about the promise of “more powers” that they’re not telling us?


That’s a rhetorical question, of course. We know the answer to that question because one Scottish Labour MP broke ranks and DID tell us.

Scottish public spending would suffer a cash squeeze under Johann Lamont’s plans to devolve all tax-raising powers to Holyrood, a leading Labour MP has warned.

Glasgow MP Ian Davidson said the Barnett formula that gives Scotland a bigger share of UK government spending would be lost if the party go for full tax powers for the Scottish Parliament.

The Labour chairman of the influential Commons Scottish affairs committee said it ‘would undoubtedly be to Scotland’s detriment’.

Scottish Labour MPs are caught in a terrible bind over devolution. They know that their party’s proposals will mean less money for Scotland, and as the sitting Westminster MPs they’re the ones who’ll have to carry the can for cuts in their constituencies if Scotland votes No and then returns a Labour government in 2015.

While a Labour win remains unlikely, if it happens there’ll be nobody else left to blame, and the public backlash is likely to be considerable. (Let’s be uncharacteristically charitable for a moment and accept that the MPs in question would also genuinely feel bad about the damage wrought on their constituents as a result.)

So why are Labour painting themselves into this corner?

“Holyrood MSPs, led by Lamont, think the policy is needed to offer undecided voters an alternative to independence in the September referendum.”

Ah, there it is. If Scotland votes for independence, 41 Scottish Labour MPs will find themselves unceremoniously hoofed off the Westminster gravy train and its Scottish branch will find itself in a very tricky financial pickle – stoney broke, with just a few thousand members and unable to get a bailout from London HQ, because political parties can’t take money from “foreign” organisations, as rUK Labour would then be.

Facing this double whammy, the party tried to square the circle by drastically watering down its original devolution proposals, which were what Davidson’s comments referred to. But unable to offer the Scottish people nothing lest it boost the Yes vote, they merely reduced the damage to the least they thought they could get away with.

Even the slightest, most superficial analysis of the UK parties’ tax proposals makes plain that they’ll cost Scotland billions of pounds (which is why you’ve read next to nothing about them in any Scottish newspaper). The block grant, via the mechanism of the Barnett Formula, currently covers about 70% of the gap between what Scotland sends to Westminster in tax receipts and what it gets back in spending.

But the more tax the Scottish Parliament has to raise itself – without having control of oil revenues – the lower the block grant, the smaller the compensatory Barnett effect and the worse the resulting damage to the Scottish budget.

Labour know that they’re basically offering Scotland a punch in the face, rather than their original proposal of a kick in the groin. It’s why they’re so reluctant to talk about their devolution plans, and why they get in such an unholy mess when they do.

So they’re stuck between a political rock and a hard place. They want to keep their lucrative jobs, expense accounts and pensions, while doing as little as possible to make their own lives harder after a No vote. The reason they’re offering fewer “powers” than anyone else is because they know that without independence, those “powers” are actually instruments of self-harm.


*Order quantities of our new flyer here for free (small postage charge).

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

3 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 06 09 14 22:59

    It’s behind you, Donald | FreeScotland

  2. 15 09 14 23:04

    Nick Clegg Signs Another Pledge | FreeScotland

  3. 19 10 14 13:06

    Professor Curtice, saviour of Scotland | FreeScotland

179 to “Diluting the poisoned chalice”

  1. I suggest they’ll be scampering from between the rocks to reside under the rocks scraping their bloated gravytrain bellies like most other reptiles.

    (Apologies to all real organic reptiles for any offence)

  2. desimond says:

    The thought of all Labour honchos sitting there on Sept 18th/19th praying for the gravy train to keep on rolling along is one to truly turn a persons stomach.

    Scotland really will deserve all it gets if it dares allow folk like this to carry on such abuse.

  3. heedtracker says:

    The issue is do the Scottish electorate know what’s coming if they vote no? BetterTogetherBBC etc, blanket coverage of austerity growth which makes sense for a No win. Funny that.

  4. Capella says:

    The Electricscotland site has a history of the devolution process where they claim that it was the Council of Europe which insisted that the UK government rectified its appalling undemocratic state. Tony Blair and his colleagues were forced to introduce devolution and opted for the lowest transfer of power they could get away with and stay in the EU. Far from being the party of devolution, they are in fact still solidly anti democracy.

  5. Paddy says:

    What struck me about the Darling/Salmond debate, apart from Darling’s inadequacy, was the way Darling kept referring to himself as a Labour politician who opposed the Tory agenda and would reverse it. Apart from this not being true (as Salmond pointed out – Labour are committed to the same agenda), it begs the question: what happens if/when Labour lose the election? What’s the Labour party’s Plan B, other than another 4 years of ineffective and divided opposition?

    If we are Better Together under a series of Westminster Tory governments, what is the point of Westminster Labour? If we are not, then what is Labour’s plan B for a Scotland (or a Wales) with yet another government we didn’t elect?

  6. heedtracker says: Size of Davidson’s majority’s a job for life alright, even if he is the richest man in his own constituency. Ian’s expenses claims alone are not for the faint hearted, unless youre an interior designer in London westend. Maybe a lot of Westminster MP’s really are sociopaths.

  7. paul gerard mccormack says:

    There is a huge danger that we think its all over and project too much to the next phase, or relish too much the downfall of all those professional aparatchiks. The forces of darkness however will not relinquish their power so easily. Maybe arses like Carmichael and Moore et al know the real voting intentions rather than BT’s figures, but so what? They are wholly irrelevant. The British State IS an evil power and will continue to do everything in its grasp to sow fear and doubt. I fully expect the collusion of the state’s dirty tricks departments to be released next. Watch this space. Nothing will be as it appears to be.

  8. Macart says:

    Yep, that lady nailed it during the debate on Monday night. Excuse the paraphrasing but…

    …’Yes Scotland is fighting for people. BT are fighting for their jobs.’

  9. Indy_Scot says:

    I believe that many Labour voters can see that Scotland has a better future by voting ‘Yes’. I also think that ending Tory rule in Scotland will be a reason for Labour voters to vote ‘YES’.

  10. Robert Louis says:


    A timely warning. You are right, Westminster and the British establishment will stop at nothing to prevent Scottish independence. They view Scotland as a possession. It is theirs. How dare Scots take it away from them.

    The dying days of the empire.

  11. manandboy says:

    My third posted comment disappeared.
    Over to you Stu.

  12. Jim says:

    Some absolute muppet called Douglas Alexander, “A fucking liar”, live on radio Scotland’s Morning Call. Could of been a real YES supporter or it could have been a plant, who knows but if it was a real yes supporter then he has just given ammunition to BT to use against us.

  13. Jim says:

    My third posted comment disappeared.
    Over to you Stu.

    Seems to be a problem for a few people myself included.

  14. dodgardiner says:

    Heard that Jim, unfortunate.
    Sounded like a very angry and frustrated Yesser, I had to turn it off because I was getting angry listening to wee Dougie being ever so nice and sincere.

  15. Geoff Huijer says:

    It’s all the SNP & Alex Salmond’s fault!

    They’re doing it deliberately dontcha know…

  16. Marcia says:

    The careerist in Labour will not want any powers for Scotland.

    Jim – I am sure a lot of people will agree with him whilst saying tut tut.

    The local paper in Glasgow has this article – I presume it is a subsample and not a full size poll.

  17. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    I would disagree with the muppet description given to the chap who told a fact.

  18. desimond says:

    Is it just me that cringes at the thought of the CBI dinner with Cameron being held in Glasgow?
    Shame shame shame!

  19. Robert Louis says:

    You know, right at the outset, Labour could really have had it all. All they had to do was oppose David Cameron’s outright opposition to independence, and position themselves as the champions of devo max (real devo max – all powers save foreign affairs and defence). This would have secured them a position as the pragmatists of the debate, the party that supports extra powers that Scots want, but also wants to keep the union.

    This would have been a winning proposition. It would have meant they would not have to join with the Tories, and Labour would be in the winning position by now. Such a move would also have, in my opinion, destroyed the SNP and Scottish Government proposition, except amongst diehards.

    It was an open goal, and Labour were in perfect position to take it, likely leading to miliband perceived as saviour of the union, and the election of a Labour Government down south – possibly up here too.

    I am frankly astonished, that nobody in Labour seems to have thought any of this through. So now we have a much damaged and ridiculed Labour party in Scotland, with nonsense arguments about trivial power changes, and the prospect they might lose the next UK and Scottish elections, regardless of a YES or NO vote.

    I can only guess, that such wass the blind hatred of Ales Salmond and the SNP by Labour, that they just could not even think strategically on the issue.

    As things stand, if there is a NO vote, coward Cameron will be hailed down south as the saviour of the union, but if YES wins, then the Tories will merely point the finger at Labour and Mr.Darling himself.

    Labour have painted themselves into a corner of their own making. For them, it is now lose – lose, no matter which way the vote goes.

  20. Jim says:

    Maybe a frustrated and angry Yesser but I wish he had kept a lid on it, put the point across calmly and maybe given food for thought to some undecided or soft no people. Instead he came across as a raving loon.
    Maybe I am a masochist but I had to listen to the whole program, FM tomorrow so should be good.

  21. Ken500 says:

    Shameless troughers. All multimillionaires while their constituents live in poverty. People are being sanctions and walking to food banks. Undernourished, cold, worried people get sick.

    Most of Wedtminster should be in jail.

    Will Cameron be coming on the day trip in a Airforce jet and army helicopter, costing £millions or on a schedule flight and hire car, like everyone else.

  22. Ken500 says:

    Shameless troughers. All multimillionaires while their constituents live in poverty. People are being sanctions and walking to food banks. Undernourished, cold, worried people get sick.

    Most of Westminster should be in jail.

    Will Cameron be coming on the day trip in a Airforce jet and army helicopter, costing £millions or on a schedule flight and hire car, like everyone else.

  23. Ken500 says:


  24. Ken500 says:

    But Devo Max (defence and foreign policy) means illegal wars and Trident?

  25. Ian Brotherhood says:

    That was Dougie Alexander’s attempt to roll out a red carpet for the arrival of the BTUKOKVNOBNOTHANKSer-in-Chief later today…

    He’ll now be making his weary way from Pacific Quay, wee legs wobbling, wondering WTF to do next.

    Give us a wave when you get to the wonky bridge Duggie!

  26. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    He wasnt a loon jim, he was a frustrated man due to the constant lies and negativity about our country, douglas alexander is a fuckin liar, he said westminster cannot take powers from holyrood, a fuckin liar. I empathise completely with the guy, i could feel his frustration.

  27. Jim says:

    @Findlay Farquaharson
    I would disagree with the muppet description given to the chap who told a fact.
    I agree, maybe muppet was too mild a term to use.
    Look, most people agree with his description of Alexander but don’t go shouting stuff like that on live radio and feed the MSM who will probably have a 5 page spread about vile nats in tomorrow’s newspapers.

  28. Juteman says:

    The lie from Alexander about Holroods power was a belter. A caller askef if Westminster could take powers away from Holyrood and he said No!

  29. Jim says:

    @Findlay Farquaharson
    I didn’t say he was a loon I said he came across as one.
    Again, we all thought it but don’t say it on live radio and feed the biased press anymore than we need to.

  30. K8ie says:

    Thanks for the link. I read this a few years ago and then lost it somewhere in the Internet maze. Talk about the desire for self-determination being hindered at every stage then this article proves it. The article reminds me that Labour only granted devolution because they had to, also forgot that Donald Dewar was the man that helped to nick 6000 sq miles of Scotland’s North Sea coastline. A long read but well worth it.

  31. Robert Louis says:

    Swearing is a no no. The liar part was quite correct.

  32. galamcennalath says:

    I am especially concerned that there are No voters sleepwalking towards the 18th and still unaware of what a NO win will do to Scotland.

    There are true BritNats and there are Thatcheresque ‘me first’ NOs. They are lost causes. However, there are a lot (most?) of NOs who haven’t got the message. I’m sure of it.

    This, and other Wings articles, sets the record straight. Is it getting through to the I-believe-the-tv-&-papers blinkered NOs?

    I applaud Yes Scotland’s relentless positivity. The moral high ground is to promote the pros and opportunites of Indpenedence. However, the true nature of a NO win must be spread far and wide.

    My worry is a lot of people will vote NO ‘by mistake’.

  33. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    Its a good point and i expect the media may well report it but im gonna defend the guy. I feel where he is coming from, and he is one of us.

  34. Luigi says:

    I have just spent an hour of my life waiting to hear a proper, honest answer to any of the questions put to Douglas Alexander.

    A complete waste of time.

  35. David Stevenson says:

    Marcia: That Evening Times article implies we are behind on the wider ICM poll. Would also seem to have been polling after the Kelvingrove debate. Hopefully the wider poll will show a significant closing of the gap.

  36. Robert Louis says:

    As regards Labour MP Douglas Alexander lying on national radio about Westminster removing Scottish powers, here are the facts;

  37. call me dave says:

    Hoicked off the air live! Just as I was leaving the house. She who must be obeyed laughed out load…I sighed inside.

    It started of fine as he gave Dougie a well deserved dressing down and suddenly the expletive escaped. Pity but that, although understandable, won’t work. But well done for effort.

    🙁 Pity I hope the rest of the programme went well.

  38. Papadox says:

    What is Westminster’s plan “B” if we vote NO.?

    What is SLAB plan ” B” if they game power?

    What is Tory plan “B” if they game power?

    What is lib plan “B” if they should gain some power?

    What is UKIP plan “B” if they get power?

  39. Bill McLean says:

    Jim – like you I don’t much like bad language – especially on air. Assuming the caller was a genuine “YES” though, I wonder if in the balance most people will sympathise with his view, although not his language – most people now know that Labour are lying in their teeth! A lying Douglas Alexander versus an angry caller – who wins? But you may have prompted some rat reporter to do what you have suggested they may do – make an issue of it tomorrow! Not clever!

  40. galamcennalath says:

    Here’s a woman who appears to have been swayed to YES by BT & Darling’s antics. I hope many more now come out for YES in a similar way.

    Perhaps the very things we complain about will be what delivers the winning blow for YES!

  41. sausage fingered luddite says:

    Mibees I’m a cynic but isn’t it surprising that the 3 (?) second delay failed and a yesser was allowed a sweary insult on national radio. Can’t recall when that last happened?

  42. manandboy says:

    THIS is a MUST read on a par with the McCrone Report.

    A damning indictment of Blair Brown and Dewar who were totally anti-Scottish Devolution but who manipulated the facts to make it appear as if devolution was Labour’s baby.
    Utterly corrupt!

    The first half requires application to get through
    before you hit plain speaking about the role of Thatcher
    and then Blair & Brown in the anti-Scottish devolution project.
    A taster – “Prime Minister Tony Blair and Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown both
    ostentatiously boycotted the opening of the Scottish Parliament itself, and later the Holyrood building,
    in order to demonstrate their personal opposition, and that of the Labour Party, to the whole devolution project.”

    Read this and your view of recent political history
    in the UK re Scotland will be changed.

  43. galamcennalath says:


    Their Plan B? What was their plan A? I must have missed that. Have they any firm plans at all? Or, is it that they don’t want voters to know about any of their plans post-No?

  44. Chic McGregor says:

    Worth remembering that the reason income tax revenue in Scotland is slightly lower than in England is not down to a difference in GDP per capita (without oil), those are virtually identical, it is because of a more equitable distribution in income. i.e. there are proportionately more high earners in England paying higher rates of tax.

    This is a good thing.

    Not just morally, but in terms of sustainable economy.

    It means that more of Scotland’s money remains active in the economy which in turn means the economy is more robust and quicker to respond. Relying on tax revenue from high earners, many of whom are in jobs which could be relocated elsewhere almost overnight, is a very dodgy basis for an economy, and a much higher proportion of their income does not circulate in the real economy thus generating growth in a natural dynamic fashion.

    It would therefore be sensible, if required, to make up the shortfall by a generic tax increase to recover the difference of about £290 per year. But it is unlikely that that would ever be required, because there are several other factors which are likely to generically increase income in an independent Scotland resulting in more than enough increase in income tax revenue without increasing the rate of tax.

  45. Jim says:

    What strikes me is how they will not give a straight answer as to will they fight Scotland’s corner if they find themselves in an Independent country following a yes vote.
    It’s a simple enough question but saying they will foight Scotland’s corner means they are admitting that Scotland will indeed survive post independence.

  46. call me dave says:

    Sausage fingered luddite

    Never thought of that one and you may be right however the milk was spilt no use crying about it now.

    PS. Secretly used a different silent expletive earlier when Dougie lied about the pension thing,so not blameless mydself.

  47. manandboy says:

    Ps. After you read

    you may well wonder why on earth do we have a statue of Donald Dewar at the top of Buchanan St in Glasgow.

    That statue is a piece of pure Labour propaganda
    and as such is an absolute disgrace.

  48. les Wilson says:

    The CBI and Cameron, a fine team and the match well. Bedfellows indeed. So Cameron will preach today another scare tactic about the UK supporting a million Scottish jobs.

    What he will not do is point out how many jobs Scotland supports in England.There are so many English companies trading here I suspect he will not even know the numbers, but let me tell you it is huge.

    Just look at the Supermarkets alone, every day hundreds of lorries trundle into Scotland with all manners of English goods. To the point when looking around all the supermarkets you are hard pushed to find much Scottish produce, some token items and that is it.
    This keeps a lot a huge amount of English jobs going.

    He will not mention these will he, and that is only the Supermarkets, there is much much more.
    So he can stuff his threats they are worth nothing.

  49. Robert Louis says:

    Over on twitter revstu has just posted the link to an awesome video.

    For some reason I cannot post the link. It is really well worth seeing. Perhaps somebody can post the link here.

  50. Marcia says:

    David Stevenson

    I think it had been lifted from the debate poll, rather lazy journalism but i will take the headline.

  51. G. Campbell says:

    Jim says:
    Some absolute muppet called Douglas Alexander, “A fucking liar”, live on radio Scotland’s Morning Call


  52. No no no...Yes says:

    sausage fingered luddite 10.56am

    THE SWEARY MAN- I didn’t hear but would agree there is usually a delay before transmission to ensure any expletives are not broadcast. Was this a dirty trick to allow condemnation of the YES movement? Perhaps Mr Bateman could add his thoughts to the subject?

  53. Jim says:

    @Bill McLean
    I agree with what the guy said but the language deflected attention from that in my opinion.
    As for rat reporters, the guy said it on live national radio and it will be reported in the red tops. Don’t blame me for that happening, the guy did that all by himself, not very clever, eh?

  54. Giving Goose says:

    Re the chap on the radio calling D Alexander a liar. He is right, he is and it will do no harm to highlight that point with some colourful language. Do the MSM have the courage to challenge this? If they do, then we can respond. It is about time D Alexander was outed for what he is and represents. He is one of Cameron’s bag men in Scotland; willing to do or say anything to ensure that the Tory will is implemented in Scotland.

  55. Roughian says:

    Sausage fingered luddite. I agree with you. BBC have tightened up with other live call-ins. You don’t hear many sweary words these days on football progs. How come this one got through????

  56. Jim says:

    sausage fingered luddite
    It happened yesterday as well when someone said nigger live on air.

  57. les Wilson says:

    manandboy says:

    That was a really interesting read, and shows that there are people out there with will and commitment to help Scotland, which makes a nice change. As for Dewar, and the Labour party, there are no depths to which they did not sink, and nothing much has changed in that regard.

  58. Indy_Scot says:

    The ‘Our time’ video should be shown on BBC Scotland just after Reporting Scotland.

    BT patronising lady or Our time. No contest.

  59. cearc says:

    Maybe they had already used up the delay.

  60. Jim says:

    Archie Macpherson comes out for no, he cannae stand it any longer. That’s it guys and gals, we are done for now!

  61. Nana Smith says:

    Just announced on Yahoo news. Wonder if Davy has been told, might put him off his dinner!

    Conservative MP Douglas Carswell has announced he is defecting from the Tories and joining UKIP.

    The MP For Clacton in Essex said he made the decision because he believes UKIP is the only party that can break up the “cosy Westminster elite”.

  62. Michael McCabe says:

    200 Businesses say independence will be good for Business with an open letter in the Herald. Will be interesting to see how the bbc and stv try to spin that as a negative. I Don’t think Cameron will want to Address them. Still waiting on Cameron coming to Scotland to talk to Undecided Voters. He said he would be delighted to do it. We all know where his Priorities lie. The Bid Feartie. Vote Yes. Douglas Carswell has jumped from the Tories to UKip. Flipped his Second home. Once claimed £655 on Expenses for a Love Seat.

  63. Jim says:

    He wont face the FM in a debate because he says it is Scotland’s referendum, so why come up here and try and lecture people on how they should vote.

  64. Dan Huil says:

    OT. Tory MP defects to ukip. England continues to move to the right politically.

  65. Andrew Morton says:

    My Labour Party member son has just received a begging letter from Johann Lamont asking for yet another £25.00 ‘So that we can ensure the highest No vote possible’. As he is a member of Labour for Independence, that won’t be happening any time soon. Nor will we be putting their NO poster in our window!

    They might as well have asked him to send them money so that they can save their jobs and expense accounts and continue to run Scotland down at every opportunity.

  66. handclapping says:

    Devo Max is a non-starter. We had it from 1603 to 1707 and it didn’t work.

    Did anyone notice the photo of Lamont in the Daily Record piece? There must be a Labour school for how to do the pointy finger.

  67. bunter says:

    Tory defection to UKIP puts another spanner in Dave’s visit. London media will focus on that while disreporting Scotland will focus on the fear over Scottish jobs.

  68. sausage fingered luddite says:

    Jim @ 11.13
    Thanks Jim…just my paranoia then 😉

    As for Archie, I got the BT pamphlet with his view through the door the other day. I’m swithering now…

    I also got a personal letter from Ruthie yesterday. The wife never – I think I might be in there…

  69. bunter says:

    Our Time video is amazing. Hairs standing on back of head stuff.

  70. Bill McLean says:

    No need for sarcasm Jim! The point is that by your emphasizing the negative – ie the swearing you are doing their job for them – the point that Alexander is lying will be swept to the side by a reporter. We know some of them are not too bright and some are downright dishonest.
    Remember all the celebs, and indeed my local MSP, claiming they had been abused – well the negative side was all that was reported – nothing about the fact that my MSP has more faces than Tony Blair – and everyone, including the local press, knows it! I regret bad language too but their are more types of abuse than swearing! Off leafleting now so ta ta and good luck!

  71. Fiona says:

    I really do not care whether people swear or not: if one cannot swear one cannot really speak english and it is a curious fantasy that ordinary folk never do. Seems to me it is part of the cultural and class hegemony, which also suppressed regional dialect as part of the imperialist agenda.

    What I do care about is the crazy set of values which makes the use of swear words unacceptable but the routine lies and misinformation a normal part of politics. Time to get our priorities right, people.

  72. heedtracker says: Torygraph has actually changed their photo of Davidson here which is predictably creepy from the very creepy world of vote No or else British media. But what kind of socialist in Govan goes out and buys himself this

    “Claims filed under the Additional Costs Allowance show that Mr Davidson ordered reclining furniture worth £1,459 in March 2007.”

    and this

    “In the event, the bill for finding Mr Davidson a flat came to £6,000. The fees’ office agreed a proportion of this sum. He also billed the taxpayer for more than £11,000 to move flat.
    Mr Davidson said permission to employ his “family friend” had been “specifically requested from the fees office and agreed on the basis that it would be cheaper than employing a London firm.”

    in other words, a trougher in action with voters living in abject poverty.

  73. Jim says: Comb – over ‘proudscot’

    Jeez didn’t know he was still with us – real political big hitter there for No more Scotland !

    Yes vote plummets ?

  74. Chic McGregor says:

    Robert Louis
    “Over on twitter revstu has just posted the link to an awesome video.

    For some reason I cannot post the link. It is really well worth seeing. Perhaps somebody can post the link here.”

    No bad, but I preferred his Perth conference speech, if only for its prescience at a time when support in the polls was much lower. (And even without th music and imagery).

  75. alastair seago says:

    Alexander lied about the pensions and lied about powers being taken back The rest was all innuendo.

  76. HandandShrimp says:

    If the Scottish Tories and Better Together chums think Labour’s devolution plans are incoherent then they should realise that they have a serious problem. We saw at the time that there were as many explanations of the Red Paper as there were MSPs/MPs. A complete dog’s breakfast which is what you get when you have proposals and then allow people to fillet them to suit their own agenda.

    Scotland can’t afford a No vote…Labour might actually try and implement this horse poo.

  77. BigSteveChisholm says:

    I met my MP canvassing yesterday. Mark Lazarowicz, Edinburgh North. First time I’ve ever seen him in the flesh. After years receiving Leith Labour auto-votes he’s having to hit the pavements. Twenty days to save his career.

    I actually feel (very slightly) sorry for him. He’s a decent sort and was one of the few who had the balls to vote against the ‘Snooping Law’ in July. He should have jumped ship while he had the chance. He would have made a good Labour for Indy campaigner. Instead, he was out scaring pensioners and distributing feeble ‘Labour: I’m voting No’ leaflets*.

    I tried to engage in conversation on the doorstep but my YES bunting was like garlic to a vampire.

    * I wanted a leaflet to see if he was still making the ‘No Pound’ claim. Maybe some other Leithers can confirm what it said.

  78. Tony Little says:


    I agree about the Perth speech. It was one of those speeches that captures everything I want from an Independent Scotland. One of the key points in the campaign for many I think.

    But whether then or today, AS is a great speaker.

  79. handclapping says:

    Interesting that Carswell gave his reason as UKIP is the only way to change the Westminster sytem where the government is not accountable to Parliament and Parliament is not accountable to the people.

    Even Englishmen notice that Westminster isn’t working!

  80. donald anderson says:

    We won’t interfere with them or tell them wot to do if …

  81. No no no...Yes says:

    So Dave is venturing north to have a lavish dinner which will be fine dining at its best, along with copious amount of top quality wine and other beverages. He will be in a cocoon of a minority of likeminded people who also have there own interests at heart.
    He will pontificate about how we are all Better Together, pooling and sharing, risks, our wonderful history, etc…
    Meanwhile in other parts of the city of Glasgow and elsewhere in Scotland (where Cameron will never visit), we have an increasing number children in poverty and working families who cannot make ends meet due to the appalling greed of employers paying low wages. They cannot make ends meet and the tax payer has to supplement their income from the public purse. The big companies and corporations avoid paying their share of tax and successive Westminster governments have failed to act. If this was collected there would be more money to invest in infrastructure and services to benefit the population.

    The UK is morally and financially bankrupt. The Empire is a distant memory and neo-capitalism is not the way forward for Scotland. Perhaps these big companies do not want independence because they would not get away with their schemes to avoid paying their share of taxes.

    Mr Cameron does not want to have a debate with the First Minister because he will lose the argument and even more will convert to YES.

    Rant over, I’m away to deliver leaflets.

  82. les Wilson says:

    For those who have not seen this a great video, the latest from Elaine C Smith. We will all like this, particularly our dedicated ladies on site.

  83. mary vasey says:

    I never liked dewar since he visited my hospital to introduce ann begg…he had no time for any of my patients, could not get away quick enough, so different from wee eck and nicola

  84. Andrew Morton says:

    Talking to the our new golf pro yesterday. A young guy who recently gave up a well paid job giving golf lessons to pupils at a well known fee paying school to take on the pro job at our financially strapped golf club.

    My Yes supporting golf partner asked him how he is intending to vote at the referendum. He replied that he hadn’t really thought much about it and really didn’t know what the issues were. He did know that BT were saying it was a big risk.

    “Was it a risk when you took on the Pro shop here?”

    “Oh aye!” he answered, “I gave up a well paid job to do it.”

    I said, “Do you regret doing it?”

    “Absolutely not!”

    “Well don’t you think the Referendum is the same kind of decision? You’ve shown you’re a man, don’t be a mouse over this!”

    “I see what you mean.”

    We left him with a recommendation to look up the Wee Blue Book.

    As we walked away, I shouted back, “Remember, vote No and get shafted!”

  85. Quentin Quale says:

    Interesting to see that after yesterday’s business ‘leaders’ of HSBC, BHP, BG, Cairn and Weir saying ‘independence bad, vote No’, the share price of all are trading down – Cairn by 2% and Weir by 1.5%.

  86. heedtracker says:

    Of the biggest horrors waiting is losing our Scotland on the 19th Sept and then their £100+ billion nuke strike sub contract gets signed off for Faslane.

    We will have to live in and work for a union where England takes our taxes and resources to pay for things like their new high speed rail network but Trident 2 is beyond reason.

  87. mary vasey says:

    Well said fiona

  88. Mealer says:

    Armageddon Archie MacPherson.

  89. Papadox says:

    I want truthful balanced news reporting in an independent Scotland not the propaganda that EBC pushes on behalf of its masters. Therefor after independence a system has to be established where this is guaranteed and is accountable, no more propaganda and lies.

    A committee of respected broadcasters should be set up to propose a system which should then be enshrined into our constitution, with recourse to any concerns raised.

  90. kalmar says:

    Well said Fiona. Unfortunately where we are now, it will be siezed upon as evidence of “vile cybernat hate abuse” or whatever.

  91. John Hermse says:

    Absolute dynamite !

  92. les Wilson says:

    Papadox says:

    We have plenty good people who could do the job better.We can expect nothing from the BBC, as I am sure we have all noted.
    Big changes required, no matter how BBS is changed, it will never be enough a change of direction will always be Westminster orientated, that is just what the BBC is, and always will be.

  93. Andrew Morton says:

    Papadox 12:02

    A committee of respected broadcasters should be set up to propose a system which should then be enshrined into our constitution, with recourse to any concerns raised.

    There’s your basic problem right there. Where would you find any?

    I suppose a shortlist of:

    Paul Kavanagh
    Ian Bell
    Lesley Riddoch
    Iain McWhirter
    Isobel Fraser

    would be a starting point.

  94. Clootie says:

    I’m afraid the unionist politicians don’t care about the impact on Scotland.

    The only target in their sights is a continuation of the union. The Westminster Parties have that one objective and it is all consuming.

    They may have slightly different drives to maintain the union but none of them have the interest of the people of Scotland in mind.

    I always rerun to Blair Jenkins early question ” would a modern Scotland with all it’s assets and potential join a union now and surrender control of it’s affairs?”

  95. North chiel says:

    Ref my post 0730 this morning perhaps Rev Stu could provide
    a clip of the interview on Radio Scotland at 0710 ,which was
    conveniently dropped for the peak time slot after 0800 am ?

  96. heedtracker says:

    The UKOK elite future Lord Douglas Alexander was lying to Scotland about this morn

    found that those who had attended fee-paying schools included:

    71% of senior judges
    62% of senior armed forces officers
    55% of permanent secretaries (the most senior civil servants)
    53% of senior diplomats.

    Its a long way from Govan, although Pacific Quay and that £500 million PFI fraud is just up the road, on an old dock where things that actually mattered were once made and shipped.

  97. Papadox says:

    @Andrew Morton says:

    Your list looks ok to me how it works I don’t know, you have started with a very plausible list. I think celebrity broadcasting persons would have to be screened very carefully, no previous miscreant for sure. Just flying a kite cause am no that bright or knowledgable in that field but I want a respected and trusted broadcaster giving us the facts and truth not propaganda. I’m sure there are many others out their who would do a good job. I live in hope.

  98. Jim says:

    Bill McLean says:
    No need for sarcasm Jim! The point is that by your emphasizing the negative – ie the swearing you are doing their job for them – the point that Alexander is lying will be swept to the side by a reporter.
    I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic so apologies if that is how it came across, again, it was on live radio so was emphasized emphatically without my help.
    On the point of swearing as someone said it is normal and I agree but trying to get a point across by cursing at someone does not work for me anyway as I would just ignore them if they couldn’t talk in a calm or even a heated manner explaining their beliefs without the expletives.
    Good luck with the leafleting by the way.

  99. Jim says:

    Well said Fiona. Unfortunately where we are now, it will be siezed upon as evidence of “vile cybernat hate abuse” or whatever.
    Therein lies my point.

  100. Donald Carthlan says:

    Sorry I know this is off topic but I just voted YES with my postal vote!! It was one of the best moments of my entire life. A friend of mine who also has a postal vote was undecided but says that once he had the paper in her hands it could only be a YES.

  101. Gary says:

    The Scottish Labour Party has truly signed its own death warrant. It has no authority to make offers for a NO vote. Effectively only Ed Milliband can do this. Devo Max won’t be offered, in part, due to Ed’s aversion to transferring more powers. The ‘poisoned chalice’ originally proposed to the leadership had to be rejected as it was seeing an end to The Barnett Formula and would see Labour finished as a force in Scotland when their deeds became clear. As stated they whittled down their proposals until they were ‘back of a fag packet’ stuff. They’ve minimised the damage that THEY will cause but they are now in a lose-lose situation with no way out. Their lack of power and autonomy makes a mockery of them being a separate group. In the event of a YES or a NO with a Labour or Labour/LibDem coalition Labour would be finished in Scotland.

  102. Giving Goose says:

    Bit disappointed Re Archie Macpherson, who would have thought, when I listened to his enthusiastic commentary when Scotland scored a goal that in later life he would come out for Nukes on the Clyde, slashing of services, food banks and Westminster corruption. I genuinely thought he cared about Scotland; how wrong was I!

  103. Jimbo says:

    “Ah, there it is. If Scotland votes for independence, 41 Scottish Labour MPs will find themselves unceremoniously hoofed off the Westminster gravy train and…”

    … they’ll be saying to themselves, “Haud oan, I need to fight against this Scottish self determination. If Scotland votes for independence, where’s a useless article like me gonnae get a joab wi’ aw this free money? I know, I can take so and so’s place at Holyrood. It’s no as much, but it’s better than signing on…”

    … and the Labour MSPs will be thinking; “Haud oan, if they high heid yins get their noses pulled oot the London trough, they’re gonnae want ma place at the Edinburgh trough. I’ll need to fight against this independence malarkey tooth and nail – and if that fails I’ll take so and so’s joab as cooncil leader. It’s no as much, but it’s better than signing on…”

    …and the cooncil leader is going to think “Haud oan, if it’s a YES vote…

  104. Cyborg-nat says:

    Giving Goose
    Blue nose?

  105. Macart says:

    @les Wilson

    Yep, Stranraer has a fair old YES support. 😉

  106. cearc says:

    nana smith,

    Are you in Highland?

  107. Chic McGregor says:

    @Andrew Morton

    “My Labour Party member son has just received a begging letter from Johann Lamont asking for yet another £25.00 ‘So that we can ensure the highest No vote possible’. ”

    Yet again displaying the total lack of communication systems from her own colleagues, to that bunker of hers.

    Or perhaps Blare McDougall’s claim that they don’t need any more money and they are asking folk not to donate any more, was made ‘in error’?

  108. Jimbo says:

    @ Cyborg-nat

    “Blue nose?”

    More probably wealthy. Westminster’s strictures on the poor and disabled don’t affect the rich – They can afford to live with them.

  109. Muscleguy says:


    A guy in the Yes Scotland here in Dundee said last week the canvassing returns suggest Glasgow is undergoing a tipping point. The person to person conversations along with everything else has grown to the point where it will almost not be socially acceptable not to be a Yes.

    No idea if it is true but certainly Dundee is there already. I encountered a few Noes handing out circulars in the centre of Dundee on Tues but very many more actually thanked me for putting Yes leaflets in their hands and went off down the road clearly reading them. In the first 2 hours we registered 45 voters. They are at it again today but sadly I cannot be with them.

    Out canvassing with RIC tonight though. Have to put a cottage pie in the oven on a timer for my wife.

  110. Luigi says:

    The Scottish Labour Party has truly signed its own death warrant. It has no authority to make offers for a NO vote. Effectively only Ed Milliband can do this. Devo Max won’t be offered, in part, due to Ed’s aversion to transferring more powers. The ‘poisoned chalice’ originally proposed to the leadership had to be rejected as it was seeing an end to The Barnett Formula and would see Labour finished as a force in Scotland when their deeds became clear. As stated they whittled down their proposals until they were ‘back of a fag packet’ stuff. They’ve minimised the damage that THEY will cause but they are now in a lose-lose situation with no way out. Their lack of power and autonomy makes a mockery of them being a separate group. In the event of a YES or a NO with a Labour or Labour/LibDem coalition Labour would be finished in Scotland.

    More and more people are coming to that conclusion, Gary. It could have been so different if they had found courage, supported a second question on the ballot paper, and promoted Devo Max when the opportunity arose. Most people in Scotland (myself included) would have backed it.

    Hell, Labour did not even have to guarantee Devo Max, they just had to promise that they would consider it seriously and try to push it through if and when they got back into power at Westminster. This alone would have provide valuable time for them to formulate a proper response to the Desolation of 2011.

    But no, such was their fear, such was their hatred of Salmond and the SNP, that they sided with the toxic Tories against the aspirations of the people of Scotland. They have run out of options and are seriously tainted, but they have no choice but to keep supporting the BT-Tories until September 18th.

    It is all going to end in tears for Labour, and they only have themselves to blame.

  111. Chic McGregor says:

    @Giving Goose
    “Bit disappointed Re Archie Macpherson”

    Doesn’t really surprise me, I remember using the phrase “What game is he watching?” far more often with him than with any other commentator.

  112. P.R.D. says:


    The inevitable cultural trauma of a possible NOOK win is politically nerve wracking, the spectre of generations of Scots mumbling Flower of Scotland into their sleeves is apocalyptic.

  113. Luigi says:

    No idea if it is true but certainly Dundee is there already.

    Which is why I found it strange that BT would chose SNP Dundee to relaunch their Alistair and Gordon show (featuring Archie), United with Labour sham.

    Poor BT – they just cannot get anything right!

  114. Robert Peffers says:

    @Jim says: 28 August, 2014 at 11:20 am:

    “Archie Macpherson comes out for no, he cannae stand it any longer. That’s it guys and gals, we are done for now!”

    Ah! Archie Macpherson, The guy who made a career out of telling people who would certainly win football matches before the games started. Then who could tell them with certainty, after the matches, why they didn’t win. His take on the referendum will probably follow the same pattern.

  115. donnywho says:

    We need a song… can i point you Wingers munguins republic
    And support “Caledonia” a great song, a lovely cover and all the money goes to food banks.
    If we can get it into the top 40 it must be played by the MSM. Wont that stick in their craw, got to be worth it for that alone. Probably worth a few thousand extra votes.
    Go on Rev flex your powers, support this and show what we can achieve if we work for common cause.
    PS i am biased my daughter is called Caledonia.

  116. Robert Peffers says:

    @sausage fingered luddite says: 28 August, 2014 at 11:30 am:

    “I also got a personal letter from Ruthie yesterday. The wife never – I think I might be in there…”

    Well, luddite, take an old man’s advice and stick with your guidwife. Unless ye hiv haed a sex change, Wee Ruthie wull nae bi interestit as she swings the ithir wey. Yer ain guidwifie micht bi in wi a chance, but.

  117. donnywho says:

    Hay all good freedom movements need a song

  118. Nana Smith says:


    Yes, where are you?

  119. P.R.D. says:


    Donating money to food banks is an endorsement that totally undermines the principle of a universal social safety net.

  120. desimond says:

    Talking of Tipping Points, i had a lovely surprise last night while out for drinks with former colleagues in Canary Wharf.

    There was about 5 Scots there and last time we had met up, I was the token YES and they were all firm NO and happily living a lovely comfortable life.

    Last night, a UK loving Scouser in the company started up the “silly” referendum talk, and as I prepared myself to hear same old pysh, cue my surprise when the former NO’s all turned round and put him right on why Scotland must vote YES.

    I was so happy i felt no need to says “Hah, i remember when you were all utter ****s”. By the end the Scouser was even starting to nod and consider how the North of England could improve after our YES vote.

    This Tipping Point is far reaching indeed.

  121. CameronB Brodie says:

    I thought surely you’re not talking about thee Archie Macpherson. Here’s a nostalgic wee look back. The fun goes into overdrive at approx. 2:50. Turn your volume up. 😉

    Sportscene (1980) For christ’s sake Archie!

  122. cearc says:

    Nana Smith,

    Nr. Lochinver and you?

    Garve (our man in Inverness) needs people for the count. Preferably to be at the box sealing in a polling station and follow on to Dingwall.

    Are you up for it? His email address is in off-topic @12.06am today.

  123. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fiona says: 28 August, 2014 at 11:33 am:

    “I really do not care whether people swear or not:”

    Neither do I, Young Lady.

    “if one cannot swear one cannot really speak English”

    Now, Fiona, that is indeed a rather strange claim?

    You see I was brought up on a, then, isolated farm and as it was exclusively powered by drought houses I never heard the real English language spoken until I attended school in the village. As we had no electric power, we thus had battery powered wireless but it was reserved for news programmes and the occasional Scottish Language programme.

    So my native tongue is Wir ain Lallans Leid but I can switch naturally to Standard Scottish English or standard English depending to whom I may be conversing with.

    Later I joined Rosyth Dockyard as a 15 year old apprentice and spent 50 odd years speaking and listening to the very most common industrial language and mixing with Jolly Jack Tars, these latter examples, I can assure you, were no strangers to swearing or other forms of common, coarse or vulgar language. .

    Although, technically it is more correctly classified as coarse language, bad language or even slang. Correctly swearing is taking an oath, cursing is self explanatory.

    Think curse; blaspheme; obscene or profane language, all of which are not actually swearing an oath. The point is I very rarely use any of them in any context. I did, though, imagine I had a reasonable grasp of English.

  124. Nana Smith says:


    Due to long term health problems I no longer drive and can not stand around for long.
    My hubby would be able to attend but he needs information.

    What happens now? Do I just email Garve?

  125. Nana Smith says:


    meant to say we are in Invergordon

  126. I would tend to side with Fiona @11.33 on this swearing issue. If anything, used at a precise moment in an honest way, it can express a feeling that polite discourse completely fails to do. As Fiona points out, much of these moralising distinctions can be used to signify class and cultural division. Of course no one on TV or radio, or in WM or Holyrood swears within their ‘professional’ remit because they ‘know the rules’. But do they swear outwith that context? Flippen heck they do!

    I would hazard to guess that many people in Scotland have been turned off by politics because they have become alienated by the language games that are part and parcel of political discourse. Douglas Alexander is exactly one of those schooled New Labourites who are well-versed in the tricks of the trade. Ditto Murphy, Dugdale, Marra etc. Hell, they don’t sound like old Labour to me.

    If someone did swear on radio in the heat of the moment then perhaps it can be put down to true, genuine frustration. A moment that overpowers the agenda of ‘normal’ polite discourse so as to reveal a mode of expression that goes mostly unheard.

    I’m sure there are many who could be swayed by a good dose of reality.

  127. YESGUY says:

    great stuff folks although i do feel there is a wee touch of nerves out there.

    Brown , Darling and now MacPherson . The dream team??

    Old fucks with their best behind them. Archie talking about the war in 39/45. Whit has that got to do with NOW, nothing.

    Most of the young folk in my street aged around 22 avg have never heard of him .

    That’s the point folks. When we hear a supporter for union pops up, they are old timers , well past their sell buy date.

    As for the poor block swearing ….. Come on folks we use these words every day . It’s part of our language and it only showed how frustrated the guy was with the threats and abuse aimed at our old and infirm. We should be swearing at them more.

    We have been squeeky clean throughout this referendum and had to endure every lie and spin . So if someone looses it a wee bit so what? Remember “Nazi’s” ????? And remember the abuse that Wee Eck has suffered.

    I congratulate the guy for at least calling out a liar. If we loose this vote how many are gonna be swearing their heeds aff. Me for one.

    And i will use language not for the faint hearted along with “Traitors and Quislings”

    We are in a good place folks. Last year we were miles behind and Cameron knew that so the “devo-max” was of the table. Even the thought of them offering anything is a win.

    It’s too close to call now. See how far we have came and rejoice . Scotland has awoken and the natives are restless.

    Into the final stretch and the energy and support is with us , don’t forget that. Talk to folk and you will see for yourselves.

    We will succeed and win independence .

    Keep the faith. Not long now .

  128. Robert Peffers says:

    @Jim says: 28 August, 2014 at 12:42 pm:

    “Well said Fiona. Unfortunately where we are now, it will be siezed upon as evidence of “vile cybernat hate abuse” or whatever.”

    Oh! Come on – both yourself and Fiona. Let’s just consider what this is all about for a moment?

    What are the main points of this matter?

    One – A radio programme was in progress and it had an open(?) question & answer session with ordinary people asking a political figure to answer questions.

    Two – An ordinary person was asking a question, (after having made some salient points), and was being thoroughly flannelled by the political figure.

    Three – The ordinary person became somewhat frustrated and, in absolutely correctly accusing the political figure who had indeed been lying to him of lying, he used a course word.

    Now, tell me, what are the most important matters?

    The legitimate questions?
    The blatant lies?
    The single use of an commonly used but inappropriate course word for sexual activity?

    I will, though, say I expect the most unimportant thing will be the subject of the MSM, and in particular the BBC, from now on.

  129. cearc says:


    I assumed that you might have problems as do quite a few regular wingers.

    Do you not have a wheelchair/mobility scooter? There will probably be other yessers going on to the count for transport.

    Anyway, email Garve and express an interest.

    Are you sure you want to let ‘Paul’ out of the kitchen!

  130. donnywho says:

    Donating money to food banks is an endorsement that totally undermines the principle of a universal social safety net

    Get your point but right now they are here, people are hungry and political correctness will fill no bellies, after indy they wont disappear but we can fight to make them history.

    Meantime i’m supporting a song.. baby steps

  131. donald anderson says:

    Archie MacPherson always was a bore and a willing tool in allowing the mass idiocy of the Old Firm, with its social, political and health and safety aspects. He’ll fit in well with his Labour career chums.

  132. Capella says:

    @ k8ie
    @ manandboy
    It’s a site I landed on by chance while following up info on the strange death of Willie MacRae. The links are all interesting on that independence/scotlandun page although the rest of the site seems a bit of a maze.

  133. Douglas Macdonald says:

    Although many will share with me that swearing in any public place is not the best thing to do. However, it is not the first time that this has happened on air. None other than the veritable Jim Naughtie, who introduced Jeremy Hunt, now Secretary of State for Health in England, by his other soubriquet on Radio 4 last year, beat today’s caller to it. Perhaps, it was just his sheer frustration that let Jim down on that occasion.

  134. Nana Smith says:


    Thankfully I don’t need a wheelchair or scooter.

    My hubby is up for it and he will email Garve later this evening.

    HAHA Paul out of the kitchen…I will happily let my Paul out.

  135. YESGUY says:


    I know the guys well who perform the song “Caledonia” and have asked Stu to give it a push. ( Come on Stu )

    All the money goes to food banks and other sites like Tris over on Munguin’s are helping .

    This is a song for us . A return to Caledonia for all Scots. They played up and down Leith festival and passers buy stopped to listen and even joined in with the chorus.

    “Let me tell you that i love you
    And i think about you all the time
    Caledonia your calling me
    And i’m coming home”

    “If i should become a stranger
    Then that will make me so sad
    Caledonia is everything i ever had”

    Pleas buy , it’s for a great cause and it’s a song of h

    or have a wee listen first at

    Wingers you are the most generous of all can i ask for a wee push.

    6000 downloads will have the song belting out the radio’s throughout the uk. And all that for 79 pence.

    79p and our poor get fed . 79p and the whole country will hear us.

    We will be heard.

  136. cearc says:


    Great. It’s not be doing this but he asked me in email this morning who there was and I said I thought you were Highland.

    He works (well he has a work phone no) so won’t have so much time as we decrepid old biddies.

    So we can look forward to seeing ‘nana’s paul’ posting?

  137. laukat says:

    O/T – If you have any undecided football fans then the following link is an interesting development

  138. cearc says:

    Come on Highland wingers!

    There are a lot of polling stations and some of you are bound to be voting early or late so you could be there for the opening or closing of the boxes.

  139. donnywho says:

    Come on Rev you know ya want to, get behind it Caledonia, i for one want to here the Beeb play this and cringe. Or better still ban it.
    It could be a subway moment.

  140. Nana Smith says:


    He [my Paul] has posted before not very often, just hasn’t had time lately.

    Lets make history and make it YES. So exciting!

  141. donnywho says:

    Yes guy thanks for the support and the links.

  142. liz says:

    Has anyone got a link to that radio prog this morning with wee Dougie, lying thro his teeth as I am compiling evidence of his lies for a No and a DK

  143. Robert Peffers says:

    Donald Carthlan says: 28 August, 2014 at 12:45 pm:

    ”Sorry I know this is off topic but I just voted YES with my postal vote!! It was one of the best moments of my entire life. A friend of mine who also has a postal vote was undecided but says that once he had the paper in her hands it could only be a YES.”

    Hi, not got mine yet but It may be they are posting them in alphabetic order and P is some way down. Remember to check the web address they give on the form to check that it has arrived correctly? As many have pointed out the postal system has been abused in other elections. Mind you it is not usually done by fiddling genuine papers. More likely by addresses of derelict, demolished or unoccupied places or by helpfully filling in papers for old or illiterate people who think they voted for someone else.

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 28 August, 2014 at 1:38 pm@

    “I thought surely you’re not talking about thee Archie Macpherson.”

    Have you guys never heard of 90 Minute nationalists?

  145. P.R.D. says:


    … after indy they wont disappear but we can fight to make them history.

    Food Banks are here because of disingenuous social entrepreneurs and the self righteous donators that support them.

    In the anti-social security political agenda they play the role of the good cop against the welfare reform bad cop.

    One sector that needs its wings clipped in iScotland is that third sector of privilege – dignity for Scots not the cold dish of self-serving charity.

    You can not support Food Banks and then moralise against them that is hypocrisy, an hypocrisy that poor Scots are all too familiar with, just stand in that Food Bank line a wee while longer.

  146. Just touching on the “swearing” bit.

    Jim Murphy was giving his “Jackanory” bit in Cupar today and a wee man that had come along with him and was very pro “No” of course launched into a string of expletives …. prompting me and another IndyMum to shout straight down the STV Camera “Oi there are kids here” in unison.

    By tonight Hollywood could be calling LOL

    PS the rest was Murphy as usual – we are subsidy junkies, will be out of the EU, all be foreigners Blah blah lying blah!!!

  147. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m astonished. 🙂

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    Not a fan of Fabians? 🙂

  149. Tom Foyle says:

    I don’t understand the problem with swearing in Scotland, live or not. I moved to Aberdeen from Southampton 25 years ago, and, at first, was shocked by the apparent everyday use of expletives in ordinary conversation. Gradually I came to realise that it’s part of Scottish language, and usually used as emphasis rather than in an attempt to cause offence or because of a lack of vocabulary. I occasionally speak via phone or FaceTime to English acquaintances and am reminded of my own, and long-forgotten, somewhat puritan outlook. But it’s only language, after all. How many of us don’t feel better having uttered a heartfelt “FUCK!!” or “SHIT!!”. And sometimes, it’s our most effective way of letting others ken I mean know of our frustration, whether deliberate or not. I’m sure most Scots will easily forgive this person for what may have just been a slip of the tongue when faced with the madness that is BT. I know I do. The rest of this comment is censored, as it contains my REAL views of the “NO” camp.

  150. Thepnr says:


    Link to this mornings programme.

  151. I’m an Ex Stage Manager and used to run groups of roadies – swearing was around me all day every day.

    But to have one of the No-ers launch into one in front of the STV Cameras was too good an opportunity to miss 🙂

    So for just a wee minute I turned into a “shocked Mum” LOL

  152. Isabel dunlop says:

    I had no idea things were as horrendous as this. I’d no idea that conservative AND labour governments used such underhand and I think illegal (allegedly) actions to keep Scotland in the union. It makes me feel sick that I have been voting Labour from the time I was old enough to vote. I was voting YES on the eighteenth anyway but I’m sure there are many Scottish people out there that are like me and don’t know the full extent of what went on. If they did I’m sure they would be as horrified as me. The undecideds moving to a definite YES vote. Can a shorter bull it version of all the details be made easier to access.

  153. Edward says:

    Tell me someone, other than STV have got that incident of the No guy swearing, on video?

    STV will have that on the cutting room floor

  154. Macart says:

    Soooo someone used a swerry wurd. I’m probably going to blush. Alexander’s a big boy and I’m sure he’ll get over it.

    They’ve called us fascists, nazis, xenophobes intent on ethnic division, and now apparently folk who don’t love their families because we’re voting yes. We’ve been threatened with bayoneting, described as a virus, lied to, misled, misrepresented, denigrated and insulted. We’ve been subjected to a deliberate strategy of fear and uncertainty. Through all of that, during personal debate with the opposition, I’ve turned the other cheek every single time, because I keep an image in my mind. That’s been my choice and there’s been plenty times I’ve near choked on it. Others will choose in the heat of a moment and quite understandably, to vent their frustration at this one sided, selective bullshit by the opposition.

    We’ve taken a lot of abuse over the past three years and its never led to blows. A good record under extreme circumstances. We know what they are doing and why they are doing it. They want confrontation and they are using extreme provocation to achieve this. The best, sweetest revenge is going to be a YES vote and will be all the sweeter knowing how we got there. That image I always keep in mind is the view of their backs as all of these clowns who have started the above strategy and narrative receive their jotters from Westminster and their constituencies. Keep that image in mind for just a little longer.

    We’re almost there.

  155. YESGUY says:

    Robert Peffers

    Well said sir.

    the sweary bit will deflect that politicians are liars and peddle this drivel on a bias MSM

    Traitors to their own

  156. Robert Peffers says:

    @laukat says: laukat says: 28 August, 2014 at 2:41 pm:

    “O/T – If you have any undecided football fans then the following link is an interesting development

    Absolute stuff and nonsense. The United Kingdom is exactly what it says it is on the tin, “A UNITED KINGDOM”, and its component parts are two kingdoms, Scotland & England but the Kingdom of England is composed of three countries having annexed Wales in 1284, (Statute of Rhuddlan), and Ireland in 1542, (Crown of Ireland Act). Then after the Treaty of Union that union lost the Republic of Ireland. FIFA’s members are countries and Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland remain as countries of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom is not now and never has been, “A Country”.. In any case in a few weeks time we will know that the United Kingdom has just disunited and the Status Quo Ante is legally a return to the two Kingdoms being independent so Scotland will return to being both a Kingdom & a Country unless she also decides to become a Republic. T%hat though is a matter for the sovereign people of Scotland to decide AFTER we regain our independence as a Kingdom.

  157. liz says:

    @Thepnr Thanks, my list is now ready to send.
    It’s only evidence of the pensions and the ‘No WM cannot remove powers’

    If he can lie about things that are easy to disprove what about the stuff that’s hard to disprove?

  158. Robert Peffers says:

    @P.R.D. says: 28 August, 2014 at 2:59 pm:

    I’ve heard just about every political view in the book and more than a few that were not even printable but that totally illogical numptie takes the whole packet of biscuits and eats the wrapping paper too.

  159. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says:28 August, 2014 at 3:22 pm:

    Not a fan of Fabians?”

    Me too but more like I’m not a fan of fann… Err! numpties.

  160. Robert Peffers says:

    @YESGUY says: 28 August, 2014 at 4:02 pm:

    “the sweary bit will deflect that politicians are liars and peddle this drivel on a bias MSM”

    I’ve been an SNP activist for many, many years and the best laugh I ever had was when my 5’0″ wife and me at 5’4″ were putting up posters. The biggest guy in the village came along and, unusual in, “a mining”, village in those days he was SNP too. So this giant of a man was picking up my wee wife and holding her up at arms lenght while she stuck up the posters. So the big Guy says, “I’m off into that wasteland for a pee”, and we carried on posting up the posters.

    At that a group of Labourites came upon us and started giving us grief. Two of them stayed back and as we made to stick up another poster they pulled it down then went to the one we had the big guy help us with and they couldn’t reach it.

    So they decide one should stand on the other’s shoulders and tear it down. They start to do so and the big guy comes quietly back. He grips the top figure and boosts him into the air and says, “Tell you whit, J****”, (so it was obviouse he knew them), you tear it down and I’ll drap ye. – ye say sorry an I’ll pit ye doon easy an ye’ll run like Fu**”. Whit’ll it be?”.

    By jings yon Labourite cuddna haulf rin. Thone Bold guy wad nae hae catched him.

  161. ronnie anderson says:


  162. P.R.D. says:

    @Robert Peffers,


    So do you applaud, one hand clap or decry the establishment of Food Banks in Scotland.

    As for the third sector it has become an undemocratic sacred cow in Scotland, the social enterprises and charities serve their own interests, a cash generating employment bureau for the unproductive middle class.

  163. Robert Peffers says:

    @Isabel dunlop says: 28 August, 2014 at 3:40 pm:

    “I’d no idea that conservative AND labour governments used such underhand and I think illegal (allegedly) actions to keep Scotland in the union. “

    Dear Me, Isabel! Didn’t you know that the whole history of the Treaty of Union was an illegal scam right from before the start?

    James I of England & VI of Scotland was designated that way as he couldn’t form a United Kingdom in 1603. If he could have he would have been James I of the United Kingdom. Now remember that the Kingdom of England in 1603 had annexed Wales in 1284, (Statute of Rhuddlan), and all Ireland in 1542, (Crown of Ireland Act. So in 1688 when they had, “The Glorious Revolution”, and deposed James II of England it couldn’t have changed the monarchy of Scotland as Scotland was still independent. To this day the English teach that the Jacobites were rebels but you cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own and the Jacobite UPRISING went on until 1745 well after the Treaty of Union.

    William Patterson, a London Scot, had set up the Bank of England in 1694,then he was the same London Scot who started the disastrous Darien Expedition that bankrupted the Scottish landowners, (who were also the parliamentarians). At that Time the Monarchy were backing the English Transportation Laws that included Scotland and sucking money out of Scotland. While Daliel Defoe, (the author), was an undercover English Agent in Scotland. By the time for signing the Treaty of Union there was an English Fleet lying off Scotland’s shores and an English Army at the borders. It’s been a scam since before there was a United Kingdom.

    They have been robbing Scotland blind ever since. Remember the lone Tory said, “The Act of Union Extinguished Scotland and renamed England as the United Kingdom and they prove it as the Parliament of the country of England is Westminster.

  164. Robert Peffers says:

    @P.R.D. says: 28 August, 2014 at 6:11 pm:

    @Robert Peffers,

    Go troll elsewhere, numptie. May I suggest idiots R us?

  165. Marco McGinty says:

    Regarding the “fucking liar” quote, I think it has been taken out of context. The word “fuck” comes from the Dutch language (if I remember correctly), and its meaning is “to beat”.

    The Kestrel, that once common roadside falcon, used to be called the Fuckwind, or Wind Fucker, in relation to its hover hunting technique. Another species of bird, the Spotted Flycatcher, was in some parts of the UK, once known as the Cherry Fucker (honestly!).

    By Victorian times, these names, along with Arsefoot (Little Grebe) and White Arse (Wheatear), were probably considered too vulgar, and were changed to something more acceptable.

    So, could the caller have meant to call Alexander a “beating liar”? Beating, meaning assault, and as the lie used words, it was a verbal – a verbally assaulting liar!

    So, there we have it, there was nothing controversial about it at all. Another example of the mainstream media trying to find fault with the Yes campaign, where there is none.

  166. Croompenstein says:

    @Marco –

    The Kestrel, that once common roadside falcon, used to be called the Fuckwind, or Wind Fucker

    Funny that because that’s what my missus calls me the day after a good Indian take away accompanied by copious amounts of lager 🙂

  167. steven Seagull says:

    We are fighting for our national survival for sure.

    All this hand wringing about colourful language of the streets is absurd, and emasculating.

    The way they want us. Compliant and passive.

    OBEY…Do not use sweary words at your engerlish maisters and their sleekit ferengi functionaries.

    Spanish people let rip, with words that would make your teeth curl.

    Expressive, and emotive.

    Normal and acceptable in a rich vocal culture.

    Not offensive.

    The brits, and their Quislings, are pieces of shit, scum of the earth.

    We are occupied by the most evil bastirts on the planet.

    All the major problems in the world are caused by westminster criminals.

    They live.

    Speak your mind.

    Hassle ,huckle, heckle the corrupt ("Tractor" - Ed) bastirts.


  168. CameronB Brodie says:

    steven Seagull
    I think there is is clear difference between crudeness and aggression. You know we’ll need to keep the head to win this one.

  169. P.R.D. says:

    @Robert Peffers,

    Hope your troll paranoia and the dominance of the one political narrative is not the herald of a totalitarian state and a political exodus from iScotland.

  170. steven Seagull says:


    Wi all due respect bud.

    I have been an active patriot for over 40 years.
    Never a brit labour stooge.

    Clocked them as corrupt filth as a 70’s teenager.

    The hard times, the bad times.

    An instinctive Scots patriot.

    I work for the movement and contribute.

    You misunderstand my comment.

    I’ve watched NI and Scottish unionists jumping around like mexican beans at an english voice(Their masters).

    I knew this bloke fae Ayrshire,(rangers fan) who had the most stunningly beautiful Latina girlfriend.(Sofia Vergara type)

    Confessed (heh-heh)that he preferred a posh english wumman
    barking at him. Like jackie bailey perchance?.

    Subservient disturbed cowed unionist weaklings.

    Truly fkd in the heid .

    Ashamed of their identity.

    Trapped in an exiled moribund Belfast shipyard worker mindset, fae wae back.

    Divide and rule as always.

    The celtic park brit unionists are a shameful/shameless ? disgrace.

    All this crap over two wanky fitba clubs.

    Fkn up oor country, so these evil cojoined mafia scum coin it.

    Wan chance.


    -Je me souviens-

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    steven Seagull
    I’ll gladly pull my neck in though I hope you agree with the sentiment. I brought that over from the other thread. Apologies.

  172. donald anderson says:

    Old Firm Unionists have more in common with each other than they have brain cells.

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    That wasn’t particularly clear. By sentiment, I meant we need all of our wits and guile. A clear focus is needed.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top