Wanted: politics nerd
This is a genuine request for enlightenment, readers. Hopefully someone can help.
When we’re bored, we like to take a look at the Herald website front page and play Spot The Magnus Gardham Headline. It’s not usually too taxing a game – by way of illustration, we suspect you won’t have too much trouble with this example:
The actual story itself, though, has us bewildered.
Under the headline, Gardham claims that Labour’s victory in the last night’s Glenrothes council election came about through a 5.5% swing from the SNP to Labour. Scottish council elections are run through a bizarre and arcane electoral system that’s a complete mystery to us, so we’re hoping someone a bit closer to the action can explain.
The piece lists the results from both last night and last May’s nationwide election:
JUNE 2013: Labour 1896 votes, SNP 1711
MAY 2012: Labour 2183 votes, SNP 1590
In 2012, those votes came from the parties standing two candidates each, whereas last night’s single election saw only one from Labour and one from the SNP. But no matter how you slice it, last year Labour got 37% more votes than the SNP in the constituency, and last night they got just 11% more.
This isn’t one of our sarcastic rhetorical questions – can somebody please tell us how a 37% lead turning into an 11% one is a 5.5% swing in your favour? Cheers.
.
[EDIT: Okay – it turns out the Herald just wrote the 2012 results in an odd and very confusing way, and there were three SNP candidates that year. But as far as we can work out the Edinburgh result, which Gardham claims “mirrored” the Donside “vote cut”, was in fact a tiny swing from Labour TO the SNP.]
Magnus was just using cut and paste to save time.
Simple.
can somebody please tell us how a 37% lead turning into an 11% one is a 5.5% swing in your favour?
Because Alex Salmond is a fat Nazi who wants your granny to be a foreigner.
Simples, lies, dammed lies and statistics 😀
More debate is needed before we can answer.
You certainly don’t need to be a politics nerd to understand that Gardham like to spice up political stories by misrepresenting the SNP in his headlines and stories.
Gardham is the one reason alone why so many are not reading the Herald. He is killing killing that paper and putting the livelihoods of staff on the line with his journalistic style.
Gardham is being rather selective in using votes cast than vote share. The earlier post by G Campbell on a previous thread has the changes in percentage shares for the Edinburgh seat – virtually no change:
G. Campbell says:
21 June, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Edinburgh City Council Liberton/Gilmerton, 3 May 2012
1st preferences
Lab 40.9%
SNP 31.6%
Con 12.3%
LD 7.6%
Grn 5.2%
SSP 2.5%
Edinburgh City Council Liberton/Gilmerton by-election, 20 June 2013
1st preferences
Lab 39.47%
SNP 30.69%
Con 11.23%
LD 8.26%
Grn 5.62%
UKIP 3.21%
Ind 0.87%
Pirate Party 0.64%,
Pretty much no movement at all, there.
On cue from the SNP website:
“Commenting on the results of the two local by-election yesterday – in Edinburgh City and Fife Councils – Scottish National Party Business Convener Derek Mackay MSP said:
“These are solid results for the SNP reflecting our fantastic victory in Aberdeen Donside. We particularly welcome the by-election swing in first preference votes from Labour to the SNP in Liberton/Gilmerton which, coming after six years in government, shows that SNP support remains at the high-water levels which delivered record electoral successes in both Holyrood and local government elections.
“While the SNP won a seat in each of these multi-member wards, coming second place in 2012 on the singe transferable vote method, these by-elections were for one seat only on the alternative vote system – therefore the results are not comparable.”
Because Magnus Gardham’s a fanny?
He’s a fanny? You mean he’s beautiful, powerful and capable of giving life?
“He’s a fanny? You mean he’s beautiful, powerful and capable of giving life?”
Clearly pictishbeastie was merely using the word as the abbreviated form of the full “fannybaws”.
😉
“JUNE 2013: Labour 1896 votes, SNP 1711. MAY 2012: Labour 2183 votes, SNP 1590″
Those figures are wrong, that’s why the swing has confused you.
If you read the article again you’ll see that the 3 Labour candidates got a combined 2,183 votes to the combined 2,536 votes for the 3 SNP candidates: “May 2012 – Four seats Lab 1253, SNP 1193, 946, Lab 930, SNP 397”
So that’s how its a swing towards Labour.
“If you read the article again you’ll see that the 3 Labour candidates got a combined 2,183 votes to the combined 2,536 votes for the 3 SNP candidates: “May 2012 – Four seats Lab 1253, SNP 1193, 946, Lab 930, SNP 397?
So that’s how its a swing towards Labour.”
Judging by the previous paragraph, I assumed there was just a missing C between those two numbers.
The only thing I can think that even remotely matches is that Labour’s share of the vote went from 40% to 45.5%. While clearly not a 5.5% swing, it could be where the figure comes from.
“Judging by the previous paragraph, I assumed there was just a missing C between those two numbers.”
Yes its not written very well, they should have made clear that the ‘946’ were also SNP votes.
But as there were 4 seats and Labour and the SNP got 2 each it couldn’t have been Tory votes otherwise they’d have got a seat as well considering they’d have come third in the voting.
“Yes its not written very well, they should have made clear that the ’946? were also SNP votes.
But as there were 4 seats and Labour and the SNP got 2 each it couldn’t have been Tory votes otherwise they’d have got a seat as well considering they’d have come third in the voting.”
Yep, good shout. Edited now.
Dearie Jings, it’s an awfy life when ye cannae even slag some numpty off without somebody trying tae be a smart arse! Obviously I move in different circles from Kate! Fannybaws, Choob, Numpty etc. etc. take your pick, I have an extensive repertoire of Scottish working class insults!
I have publicly tweeted to The Herald I would take out a full years sub if they ditch Gardham. The man is a complete and utter wanker and will drag that paper to its demise.
Of course, having an American girlfriend, as I do, I maybe just meant “fanny” in the American sense?
Mr Gardham is correct about the swing from SNP to Labour in Glenrothes, but isn’t it mysterious that he mentions that but doesn’t mention that there was a small pro-SNP swing in Edinburgh? The SNP’s vote fell slightly, but Labour’s vote fell slightly more, meaning there was a net swing from Labour to SNP of 0.25%.
Hmm. So now your calling him an arse.. I do wish you would make up your mind. . He’ll be an elbow next 😉
@ pictishbeastie: no need to bum that you have an American girlfriend.
Simples: Magnie wis drunk
@pictishbeastie
You *are* right, but! He, allegedly, comes from a long line of Fannys. He uses the name, ‘Marcus’ as an alias because his real first name is Fanny…allegedly.
@ velofello. Aye, but is she ane o thae damn furriners ah keep hearin aboot? Mmmmm!
@ Derick Tulloch. I can actually think of lots more things to call him and his bawbag cronies but I suspect even the Rev. would have to draw the line at letting some of these particular insults through.
I always thought Fanny’s were useful.
So he’s a useless Fanny?
That second reply was, of course, meant for turnbul drier, sorry!
I am getting quite good at spotting his pieces. I never actually read them. His photograph shows a very very unpleasant and disturbed person.
I do read most of the comments though on all the Herald stuff, But not MM and OBE-Wan and the strange lady from the Trieste hinterland.
Are these posters real? Or artefacts of the Herald editorial staff?
Thanks to all for saving me some pain.
Now to bed and off to Co. Kerry in the morning.
Was the Glenrothes by-election last night a FPTP election? Why are they comparing it with an election under the STV system? That changes the nature of the contest because it focuses it on the quality of the candidate rather than the party – it may indicate something but the nature of the votes can be different, as voters may be voting for more than one party from more than one party. Or am I talking shite?
Sorry O/T
I had a very quick look at the front page of the Times a couple of days ago at a petrol station. There was something there about Gavin Hastings saying something like he found it ‘beyond belief’ that any Scot would want to vote for an independent Scotland, and other stuff I can’t quite recall about his exasperation at Scots wanting independence for their country.
Did anyone else here see/read that article in the Times? Even better, does anyone have a link to that article, or a source for it?
Dal Riata
If you have a strong stomach, or just fancy a laugh, you will see the Gavin Hastings article on the Better Together Facebook page.
Warning, your blood pressure will rise if you read the comments.
Single Transferable Vote is a useless system for by-elections, because the vote for the replacement councillor reflects the way the whole ward voted, and not the quota system that elected them in the first place.
Say a 4-member ward had 3 SNP councillors and 1 Lib Dem, and the Lib Dem snuffed it. The replacement would probably end up being another SNP councillor.
My niece, a maths teacher, tells me that one of her work colleagues says she won’t be voting Yes because all our letters and parcels etc will have to be sent via air mail as the English will not let us use their roads.
Oh….and if Scotland got independence apparently you would ”have to take your passport everywhere, ‘specially if you’re going abroad”.
And my brother’s neighbour says we won’t get independence anyway because ”the Queen won’t allow it”.
FFS.
Okay, I’ve done a Google search re Hastings and his anti-independence quotes in the Times and have found the following:
link to thetimes.co.uk
But, of course, with the Times behind a paywall it doesn’t give the full article, only the first few paragraphs.
Does anyone know a way to, ahem, ‘access’ (cough, cough) Times articles through their paywall?
And an apology to Mr. Hastings for my misquote in the above comment. He did say “beggars belief” rather than ‘beyond belief’. I’m not sure that that makes his views any more or less palatable.
Good enough at your chosen sport to be chosen to represent your ‘country’. Play well and admirably for your ‘country’ on many occasions. Be praised and exalted by fans of your sport and respected by your fellow professionals. Finally retire from being chosen to play for your country. Become an ‘ambassador’ for your sport and your ‘country’….Receive an OBE…..
….Then state that it “beggars belief” that your fellow ‘country’men and ‘country’women would say ‘Yes’ to their ‘country’ being independent…WTF??!!
Just incredible, and oh, so sad.
What is it with sportspeople from Scotland not wanting independence for the country they come from and have represented at international level? For me personally, that is just a completely incomprehensible mindfuck. Is it the reward of a bauble from royalty that does it? Is it the acquired wealth? Is it ‘I’m-alright-Jack, thank-you very much, the status quo has been good for me!’? Is it ‘all of the above’?… Christ almighty, I just don’t know [insert multiple exasperated thingys here]
@Yesitis
Thanks! I try very hard not to go to any pro-Bitter Together site. Just the thought of going there is enough to raise the blood pressure!
Dal Riata
No probs. Yes, if in doubt, keep well away 🙂
Shame about Gavin Hastings, though. I have to say, not a complete surprise.
Have to say absolutely gutted that Gavin Hastings supports Scotland being ruled by another country – of course he probably reads the Scotsman.
Robert Kerr says:
21 June, 2013 at 9:17 pm
“the strange lady from the Trieste hinterland.”
Strange guy working in GCHQ more like. The most Fake ‘Slovenian’ Ever.
anent Hastings: Tory fairmer is a Tory. Shockarooni!
My niece, a maths teacher, tells me that one of her work colleagues says she won’t be voting Yes because all our letters and parcels etc will have to be sent via air mail as the English will not let us use their roads.
Please tell me this person is not a teacher. That level of stupidity burns the mind and soul of anyone within 200 metres.
Hastings used to feature in a health promotion where he explained that walking a mile uses up the same energy as running the same distance.
Perhaps he’ll come to realise that the ill-advised opening of one’s gub is one of the most perilous exercises known to mankind.
Looks like we’ve found another ‘Shereen Nanjiani’ to add to the collection…
OT – CWU Now taking the debate on independence directly to their members.
SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE – INTERIM REPORT
At its meeting in April 2013 the NEC received the attached interim report on Scottish Independence produced by the CWU Research Department.
This report was commissioned as part of our commitment to Conference Motion 34/12 and is an on going piece of work designed to provide detailed information from both sides of the debate – with every effort made to maintain impartiality.
Public debate over Scottish Independence has, until very recently, been marked by the lack of available information. Now the date for the referendum has been set (Thursday 18th September 2014) we are starting to see more detailed information published by organisations representing a range of views. The Research Department has produced an additional update note which is also attached for your information. We will continue to track and monitor all information, research and polling information as this issue develops and further reports will be given to the NEC and Branches.
At CWU General Conference, NEC Motion 25 was debated and carried by conference. Plans are being put in place to commence a programme of consultation which will take the debate directly to our members around Scotland. It is intended to commence this dialogue in the autumn and further details of this will be issued to branches in due course.
O/T: STOP PRESS : it turns out that the thriller film “Doomsday” (where the Scottish border has a 50ft wall built along it to quarantine Scotland) is actually a documentary from the future. see link to en.wikipedia.org
(it’s actually quite a good thursday night film)
Derick
The Slovenian lady appears on the Guardian too although she doesn’t really talk to me any more because I am arrogant. I simply said that I didn’t give a flying one about all her verbose tosh regarding cultural identity and how Scots aren’t a real people or country. I added that if we vote Yes we are independent and that is an end to the matter and the UN and EU can like it or lump it but they can do fuck all about it.
I am a typical aggressive Jock…..that doesn’t exist.
Gavin’s not the sharpest thingmy in the whatsit!
Gardham’s articles are a waste of time so I don’t read them. I occasionally look at the comments but as they tend to be non-stop OBE, the Midlands chap and the Kelly family it gets a bit samey,
@ The Rough bounds,
My niece, a maths teacher, tells me that one of her work colleagues says she won’t be voting Yes because all our letters and parcels etc will have to be sent via air mail as the English will not let us use their roads.
That is what happens now – mail is flown into Edinburgh and probably Glasgow. I saw it on Top Gear. Richard Hammond and James May drove from Devon to Orkney in a Porsche Panamera (luxury911). They were beaten by a letter with a first class stamp.
What ever the significance of these votes for the Referendum, one Party which will be watching very careful what is happening to Labour, is the Conservatives. I mean the Big Conservatives in Westminster.
The Conservatives don’t have much to lose in Scotland, and if Independence doesn’t happen then one way or another, they will control Scotland from Westminster. Everything that Labour is doing will be stored, to be remembered at the next General Election. Tricks or tactics Labour is using in Scotland would be used against them in the run up to the 2015 election.
Somehow they believe it will be business as usual, but it’s not going to be.
@ Ian B – he’s actually right about the amount of energy used being the same walking or running a mile once you factor in the time taken. You’ve moved the same mass the same distance but just done it in a shorter time.
Off topic but this morning on Sky news a report on cut backs on school dinners, a case of a choice between feeding the kids or sacking a teacher, I was in a school kitchen and asked the situation here and was told school dinners were paid by the council here in Aberdeenshire. The RUK really will be FKD without Scotland.
Adrian B
Thanks, that made me smile!
The Rough Bounds says:
My niece, a maths teacher, tells me that one of her work colleagues says she won’t be voting Yes because all our letters and parcels etc will have to be sent via air mail as the English will not let us use their roads.
Oh….and if Scotland got independence apparently you would ”have to take your passport everywhere, ‘specially if you’re going abroad”. And my brother’s neighbour says we won’t get independence anyway because ”the Queen won’t allow it”.FFS
Please, please, please tell me these people aren’t educating our children!
I refuse to believe that anyone can be that fucking dense and function as a human being.
@Macandroid-
I’ve never doubted Hastings’ word when it comes to that stuff, and I’m sure he wouldn’t have been allowed to participate in a publicly-funded health-promotion unless the scientific facts were solid.
But I’m with Dal Riata on this one – the guy has, for many people, gone from Hero to Bawbag thanks to one published interview. Most of us here are, aye, a wee bit biased, but there are thousands who read this site, agree, and say nothing – tens of thousands more will register Hastings’ comments via MSM with genuine disappointment.
He has tarnished his image -perhaps irredeemably – with many compatriots who, until hearing these comments, regarded him as something of a role model.
he’s actually right about the amount of energy used being the same walking or running a mile once you factor in the time taken. You’ve moved the same mass the same distance but just done it in a shorter time.
Both require the same minimum energy (same mass, same distance) but as neither method is 100% efficient, actual energy expended will be more than the minimum and so, potentially, different. </pedantry>
Re: Scotland not existing. I was speaking to a friend (S African GP) was ddiscussing Norway and how rich it was. I remarked that it was why I thought we should have been independent in the 70s (before I was born). He is a good guy usually, well informed and a good grasp of history etc.
He remarked (with a straight face) that we were not a ‘real’ country, citing the medieval and gradual formation of Scotland, that we were only a unified entity once the ‘british’ Scots (ie English speaking) conquered the rest. Therefore, as brits, we had no claim to be a real country. Aberdeenshire (his adopted patch) could just as well claim independence and keep the oil.
I despaired. But I do wonder if such shite is what the ‘intelligent’ and cultured unionist believes.
That, paired with the cognitive dissonance of “Norway is so rich as it had the sane amount of oil as the UK but the population of Scotland” Sigh.
@Myself Yesterday-
Aye.
I posted this…
…and no-one commented on it at all.
Is it just me?
Isn’t this one of the most totally genius ads of all time?
Or do you have to be Russian to ‘get it’, and that’s why it is what it is? The final 10 seconds is, for me, ‘art’.
Completely OT.
Having failed to find anywhere on line a version of Michael Ignatieff’s documentary on Scottish Nationalism compiled circa 1993, I decided to convert an old VHS recoding of it. Unfortunately, ulthough not surprisingly, it had deteriorated somewhat and the tracking on the first 20 mins or so was not up to it. However I did manage to upload the last half of the programme to Utube. On the eve of the Bannockburn rally tomorrow it might serve as an interesting snapshot of how far, or not, we have come along the road, or how flawed or prescient the predictions made then were. Michael himself went on to become a major political figure in Canada.
I also immodestly point out that the lion/mouse banner in the end title sequence was the one we designed and carried on the big indy march in ’92, if you are at Bannockburn tomorrow you might see our new improved version.
Shame about Gavin turning to the dark side. I’m a huge fan, went to his testimonial at Murrayfield. I guess a fair few more will opt for one side or the other before Sept 14 annoying the tits off the respective opposing viewpoint. We just have to remember that be it Yes or No we all have to live together afterwards. Obviously if it is Yes I will be magnanimous and conciliatory in victory.
Gavin Hastings has been paid a lot of money throughout his career to extol the virtues of the British Lions. He is currently being paid a lot of money by Sky to extol the virtues of the British Lions.
Wow. Who knew?
The Times story is taken from Scots Magazine.
Gavin Hastings said: “It just beggars belief that people think it is in our best interests to be independent from the rest of the UK.”
He told The Scots Magazine: “The danger comes with people being complacent that independence will never succeed . . . and people not voting or taking it for granted that we will remain part of the United Kingdom.
“If we were independent would we not be doing everything in our power to find the benefits of joining up with England, Wales and Northern Ireland? Why, if we have that, would we be looking to divide it?”
Hastings claimed Scots had to be more positive about their country. He said: “When you travel and meet people you realise people love Scottish people and everything about Scotland. Scots have been successful all over the world and I always say it is because they are industrious, hardworking, innovative, passionate.
“In America you grab on to coat tails to get a haul up, in Scotland they grab on you to haul you down . . . if there was one thing I’d change it would be getting people to be more passionate about what we have. What we have is a brilliant country, with brilliant people.”
Hastings, who lives in Edinburgh, told the magazine he was proud of Scotland. He said: “I have always considered myself to be an ambassador for my country; it is home. I feel very comfortable here in Scotland.”
He did, however, fear for the future of Scotland’s rugby team, especially in the light of rugby sevens becoming an Olympic sport. He believes that, as a result, developing rugby nations will enjoy
ncreased investment, to Scotland’s disadvantage.
He said: “We are on the edge of a cliff in terms of where Scotland goes. Once seven-a-side rugby becomes an Olympic sport there will be millions of pounds thrown at developing rugby players by governments who want to do as well as they possibly can. Once countries start chucking money at sport there is a massive danger, I think, that rugby will go the same way as football and in the future we will not qualify for rugby world cups.”
@Chic-
Precious evidence.
Cheers.
Plenty small minded people sadly who are misinformed and misguided. I wonder if the S A GP really knows much about Scottish history…Independence is still a taboo topic among my friends, ie we don’t go there in case we fall out! I was though just a thinking kinda, will the ‘no’ lot be happy to enjoy the positive aspects of Independence, should they be able to continue to make lots dosh and live in comfort? Hmmm, they can do that either way, with not a worry in the world, especially monetary.
@Linda’s back
Thanks for the transcript.
“What we have is a brilliant country, with brilliant people.” But not ‘brilliant’ enough to be independent though, eh Gavin!? For fuck’s sake….
Hetty. True enough.
Always amazes me how the dedicated unionist can be so openminded on everything else except Scotland/indy. Frustrating!
Sorry to go O/T but I’m catching up on BBCQT from last night and I find it interesting that Tessa is saying the UK is too reliant on tax receipts from the banks whereas Boris is citing a strong Banking system in the City….Isn’t being reliant on one source of tax reciepts TOO scary and as such we should let another government deal with such a massive tax resource..?
So…Hand over the city receipts to the EU government?
“I have always considered myself to be an ambassador for my country”
‘Ambassador of his country’? ‘A Bastion of the Establishment’,… whatever, sounds about right.
I’m draping myself in tartan belting on my broadsword and going to the Banockburn commemoration tomorrow. Gone are the days when it was an SNP organised event when several hundred would turn out. I think it was 2007 when the SNP quietly dropped it, cant blame them. I had my photo taken posing with Alex Salmond I think it must have been 2006. Anyway it is all pretty fragmented now different groups at different times. What disnae help is the “National” Trust manager is an out and out unionist. (I know you couldnae make it up!) This year we are to be “allowed” to carry “ceremonial” weapons so kind of them! I can imagine 699 years ago today one of his ancestors shouting “you lot cant come in hear with those big swords” Aye right!
Anyway we are kicking off at 1:30pm might see some of you there?
link to nafirdileas.org
Ian Brotherhood….
love the metro Irn bru ad!! thanks it made me laugh after a stressful day…good to see people enjoying themselves as well!
Posted the metro Irn Bru on my Faceache – it made me laugh.
Irn Bru add was funny, they do have a good ad team.
Mind you one with David Cameron behind Iron Bars might go down better there at the mo.
He remarked (with a straight face) that we were not a ‘real’ country, citing the medieval and gradual formation of Scotland, that we were only a unified entity once the ‘british’ Scots (ie English speaking) conquered the rest. Therefore, as brits, we had no claim to be a real country.
This, from a NORWEGIAN!?!
Mother of God. It’s actually scary that he seems to know enough about the medieval/gradual formation of Scotland, yet seems to completely misunderstand what a country actually is (i.e. a country isn’t any less of a country if it doesn’t control an entire landmass: you might as well say medieval France wasn’t a real country because it didn’t unify the territory we currently consider France until the 19th Century) and thus puts a complete arbitrary specification on sovereignty.
Breathtaking, simply breathtaking.
See G Hastings. See the comments about the non-selection of Scottish players for the British/British Isles/ British & Irish Lions. We should know our place and not expect our players to be selected because we’re naturally rubbish.
See also the SRU who have failed to protect their own team from extermination. No Scotland international 7’s team. Just part of the english lions from now on.
“This isn’t one of our sarcastic rhetorical questions – can somebody please tell us how a 37% lead turning into an 11% one is a 5.5% swing in your favour? Cheers.”
S’easy! It’ll have been calculated on the same shonky calculator that Better Together use. 🙂
PS- I want a Irn Bruski, right now! 😀
Has anyone ever spoken to GH? I have. He’s rather slow witted to put it mildly.
“anbrotherhood says:
21 June, 2013 at 11:52 pm
@Myself Yesterday- Aye. I posted this…
…and no-one commented on it at all. Is it just me? Isn’t this one of the most totally genius ads of all time? Or do you have to be Russian to ‘get it’, and that’s why it is what it is? The final 10 seconds is, for me, ‘art’.”
Your right this could well be the best ad of all time,
go Irn Bru
loved the bit where that beautiful burd looked like she was being goosed by a penguin:)
superb
Re: GH, I believe next year will be a huge game changer and come polling day, looking at the ballot paper, ‘Should Scotland be an independent country’ there will be quite a few in the No camp who think to themselves ‘why the heck not’.
I mean how could you possibly vote against your own country (unless of course you’re a serial trougher!)
Fab ad! Fair cheered up my day!
But I did notice just how immaculate their underground stations are – a far cry from the clockwork orange .
My daughter was once in Moscow and sent back some extraordinary photos of the underground there.
Whoever said that he’d spent time with GH and found him slow witted ,thanks I always had that impression too!
Now what other Scottish sporting legend can they wheel out to tell us we’re useless by ourselves and so utterly incompetent we couldn’t possibly have a successful independent country?
why oh why do the news channels feel the need to put daft wee lassies out to interview creatures like Lord Monckton of twatton,
that Marty feldman lookalike stood and poured forth a string of bilious, facile, factually wrong (on purpose) vitriol, and not once did she tackle him, if he had been faced with Ponsonby he would have filleted him where he stood and had him prepacked for Morrison’s best pork range before he could utter the word racist,
this clown seems to think Alex Salmond was chucked out of the Labour party for being too left wing(I kid you not) he then goes onto accuse the (mild) attack on Farage as being SNP inspired and even when the young girl tries to correct him saying it was left wing parties of more than one hue who were involved in the protest
, he retorts by saying “well arnt the SNP left wing”?
then this lunatic goes onto suggest the UKip support (him included ) were racially abused, quoting someone of saying “you sound English, why dont you go home”
he said he told people,say that again and well ave you ,
omg this is racial abuse in his world?
but bizarrely he went onto say he was at least as Scottish as his (attackers)
so not only does he not know it is not racial abuse to tell him to go back to England, (just look at the hate filled comments online from his own party supporters) but he cant sue as he suggested he would as there is no such law which differentiates Scots and English as separate races,
but how can he say the abuse is racist when one Scot tells another Scot to go home? if that were seen as racial abuse every barman in Scotland could be dragged up in front of the race relations board,
so if its abuse you want monkey boy? well lets dance you total clown,
I wonder if they had asked Otto (the darling of Aberdeen) and a good little Englander what his opinion of the campaign was?
he would probably have gone off on one about that idiot Fromage losing him £500 sovs on his deposit by ranting about mythical anti English Nationalists but couldn’t quite remember any specific names when challenged by Ponsonby or quite what his point about a fictitious SNP win in Stirling in the 60’s or was the 50’s or maybe it was the 70′ well anyway thats when the SNP did something bad but he’s not letting on what,
meanwhile poor wee Otto (good little Englander) is watching his 500.00 go down the swanny,
like someone else (funny as f**k) suggested,
maybe Otto(good little Englander) will have a bit of spare room in his car when he’s heading south and take the Trident missiles with him, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
anyway where’s Bloodnoks acerbic wit when you need it ? eh?
John King
Did you not know they were auditioning for the post of Court Jester In our new liberated Scotland with the FM installed as the boy King he will require a number of trappings and what better than keeping him in a jolly mood as he dishes out the milk and honey to all the Bravehearts Millie (junior) and Cammy are due for their audition soon They were given a little extra time to prepare due to their slow wittedness The boy King will require a certain standard you know
Taranaich – South African, but no less bizarre.
I presume Gavin spent lots of time as a player during British and Irish Lions tours, berating the Irish members of the squad about why on earth they thought it was better to be independent.
Or maybe not. Tit.
Hastings wouldn’t be ‘chasing a gong’, perhaps?
He can chase a gong all he likes Cameron , they are all deemed fairly worthless now in my humble if erudite opinion.
Have a look at those who have been awarded them and decide whether you’d cross the road towards them or away from them.
I mean how could you possibly vote against your own country
You can’t. You can, of course, vote ‘No’ for your country.
Jiggsbro
Of course, in that context, that country is not Scotland, but Britain.
@ Dorothy Devine
I served Hastings at table once, when I was much, much younger. The dynamics between waiter and diner can be quite instructive, and his position re. independence doesn’t really surprise me. Another who thinks highly of themselves, and as has been commented on earlier, not the sharpest tool in the box.
With 2014 approaching, we now have to expect a series of Uncle Toms, Celebrity Toms, Sir Toms and Tom OBEs to be wheeled out with regularity ad nauseum to convince us that voting yes is a bad idea. It will have very little impact on the result. I suggest buy a supply of sick bags and batten down the hatches. It will be intense, but fortunately we won’t have to suffer much longer.
Hastings, I’d hazard a guess, is a fee paying school educated Tory…..not exactly your stereotypical YES voter. He is of course entitled to his opinion….no matter how cringy and misplaced it is.
Ah, Gavin Hastings OBE. A bit like John MacIntyre OBE then.
Anyone willing to accept an honour of a failed, no longer in existence empire shouldn’t really be taken seriously.
Jeez countries all over the world mark the pathetic demise of the British Empire with a day of national celebration.
It’s excruciatingly embarrassing these things are still being handed out. Each time folks are lined up to receive one I cringe and hope nobody outside the UK hears about it.
Of course, in that context, that country is not Scotland, but Britain.
No, the country is Scotland. You can vote ‘No’ for Scotland, if you believe that the Union is good for Scotland (or even less bad than independence).
Yes Gavin went to the same fee-paying school as Chris Hoy, but you wouldn’t want to question on which qualifications he had which got him into Cambridge……
We just have to accept that these people are part of the Edinburgh establishment, of whom I would guess 95% will vote NO next year. From their point of view why give up the chance of knighthoods, medals etc and their cushy lifestyles for the “uncertainty” of independence?
@Luigi says:
22 June, 2013 at 12:19 pm
‘With 2014 approaching, we now have to expect a series of Uncle Toms, Celebrity Toms, Sir Toms and Tom OBEs to be wheeled out with regularity ad nauseum to convince us that voting yes is a bad idea.’
Fitting, Tom also being Cockernee for prostitute.
@scottish_skier 12.35 pm
Fully agree with what you’re saying there. The whole ‘honours system’ stinks – pretty baubles from the ‘establishment’ – ‘Hurrah! And God save the queen.’
For anyone who is interested, a Google search will give you the full list (it’s long)of ‘awards’ and ‘honours’ granted by the British Empire (LOL!) . The ‘establishment’ must believe that the British Empire still exists as lots of their baubles are given out for services to it. For example, we have:
CBE – Commander of the Order of the British Empire
OBE – Officer of the Order of the British Empire (G. Hastings has got one of them)
MBE – Member of the Order of the British Empire
BEM – British Empire Medal
Outdated, embarrassing nonsense. Dump the whole charade in the past where it belongs – yet another positive of Scottish independence.
Good point, Mo Sheanair.
The likes of Hastings, Alex McLeish/Ferguson are the hard NO vote and as disappointing it is hear to hear someone like Gav come out with his close mindedness regards the ref – just have to accept that there are many people like him who will vote No and always will.
Fortunately they are not the majority of the population. The way I see it, is there are at 30% core Yes voters. I imagine most of us on here are probably in that category. The No vote have a core of 30% and then 40% are either don’t care/undecided/Devo Max/soft No/I’d love indy, but…..
As the debate goes on – I can see us winning over many of the undecided’s and soft No’s. I think many of the ”I’d love indy, but” will come aboard as the debate goes on.
When you watch the discussions either on tv, the press, social media – one thing that always stands out for me is that the Yes side is fresh,positive, engaging and full of debate with contrasting views. Try having a look at BT’s facebook page – some of the posts are beyond belief and it’s an entrenched mindset e.g ”I’m voting no cos I am”.
And every discussion on the subject – is like night and day. Watch that Women’s discussion on Newsnight last week. Jeanie Freeman came across extremely well compared to Amanda Harvie. The mother of these and the closer to the time of the vote, I can see us winning the vote.
Last point, apologies for rambling on, but the question alone ”Should Scotland be an independent country?”. That will get at least in my opinion, 10-15% of the Undecided vote. Many of them will go in still with not a 100% opinion on what to do, and much like a toss of coin, they’ll go for it.
Lots of work for us all to do and I’m looking forward to it all, but the more and more I discuss with people who were even anti-Independence or neutral on the subject, they are all coming on board.
It seems that finding a pro-independence sportsperson is as difficult as finding a pro-union creative type. It seems a bit odd that folk who have represented their country in international tournaments should be the least likely to support independence, but I suppose they’re used to being told what to do, whereas creative types are used to thinking outside the box.
I read, and hear, many saying they want more information about independence-I believe this is a sort of subliminal indication that they, the undecided, want to vote YES. Re the comment about John MacIntyre OBE – it was he, more than anything else, that prompted me to study the feasibility of independence. Once I came to a happy conclusion it was his arrogance that cemented my belief that we will be a better, more progressive nation than the one MacIntyre has been conned by!
Excuse my ignorance, but I have no idea who John MacIntyre is.
However, we shouldn’t forget our much loved singer, song writer Dougie MacLean OBE not forgetting Sir Sean of course.
I agree the whole thing is outdated, but more so the manner in which they are dished out. (Connery & MacLean being exceptions of course.)
No exceptions Shinty – the whole system stinks of patronage regardless of who receives the gongs. John MacIntyre appears on blogs frequently pursuing his version of British Imperialism! Embarrasingly he claims to be from Dunfermline!
As a resident of the Kingdom outwith Dunfermline, I could believe it of them 🙂
handclapping —- hey you!
John MacIntyre,
native of Dunfermline is a retired cleansing department supervisor from the south coast (cant remember where) who, for some reason I am unaware of acquired an OBE ,(cant have been all bad then)
as far as I’m aware I’m the first person to address him as O.B.E. Wan Kinobe, his unrelentingly negative views of the land of his birth leave even the most unionist of us aghast at his completely disgusting hatred towards Scotland.
Yes – even though he’s from Dunfermline John he is definitely a sad individual. He referred to 16 and 17 year olds from Kelty and Cowdenbeath as “numpties” a few months ago. What a scrote!
The Herald is Magnus Gardham’s plaything. He is on track to bankrupt a once fine Scottish paper.
His articles remind me of Alf Young’s work, they never make any sense.
Mind you trying to persuade Scots that their future would be better served in the Union must tax the best of brains.
just remembered where he’s from ,its Woking, Im sure the local paper will welcome his erudite views (not) but the conversation recalls another ignorant poster who delights in belittling the country of her birth and it is none other that the delightful Orraquine who’s posts AT me consisted of copy and paste , copy and paste accusations like a parrot, when her contributions to the telegraph comments were of the nature of those donkeys in parliament who continuously bray hear hear, not a single original thought in her head, just an Ian (not so) Smart type who follow the leaders but have no serious input of their own.
If your still looking for a politics nerd rev,
the man your looking for has done an interview on msn
Michael Moore “we are presenting a very positive case for the union” ?
eh?
is there another better no campaign going on that I’m not aware of?
here a laugh for you
seems marty feldmans been told to bugger off
link to guardian.co.uk
MacIntyre lives in Woking but claims to be from Dunfermline – wherever he’s from he is an imperialist, imperious, patronizing, arrogant scrote.