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Vote No or the women and children get it

Posted on January 17, 2014 by

So, Ruth Davidson’s been digging herself a big hole on Twitter since yesterday.

cabernats

We’ve been trying unsuccessfully since last night to find any of these “cabernats” [sic] who’ve supposedly been “outraged” by Mr Hague’s comments. As yet we haven’t managed to locate a single tweet complaining about them. But Davidson’s remarks piqued our curiosity about what Hague had actually said, since we hadn’t yet seen the speech he’ll be giving in Scotland today.

So we went and tracked it down, and suddenly we found ourselves outraged.

“In March last year, I visited a refugee camp in the Democratic Republic of Congo to meet some of the 200,000 women and children who are victims of warzone rape in that country.”

We’re sure that cheered them right up. “Hurray, William Hague’s here!”

“Since then, and after a sustained diplomatic effort, 70% of the member states of the United Nations have endorsed a declaration to end these abhorrent crimes. And in June, the United Kingdom will host a global summit as the next step forward.”

All tip-top stuff. Jolly good.

“This campaign to protect the vulnerable, tackle impunity and foster long-term peace is one that I have given my whole-hearted support. I’m pleased that we have come so far in such a short time. As Nelson Mandela said: ‘It always seems impossible until it is done.’”

Poor old Nelson. Barely cold in the ground and already being venerated by the sort of people who wore “Hang Mandela” t-shirts when Hague was a young Tory. But anyway.

“What we have achieved, working with partners, is to break the silence on a taboo subject that has ruined many lives.”

Silence? Taboo? You mean warzone rape was some sort of secret before now? We’re reasonably sure that it’s been a well-documented phenomenon since at least World War 2 and doubtless much earlier, and that everyone’s pretty much unanimous on the view that it’s a bad thing.

“But we could only do so because we had the full weight of the United Kingdom, its alliances and its first-class diplomatic network behind us.”

Wait, what? Is Mr Hague attempting to tell us that with a population of 65 million the UK was able to provide this assistance, but with a population of only, say, 60 million we wouldn’t have been, and the rape victims would have just had to look out for themselves? If an independent Scotland had also tried to send Congo some aid, would it have been rejected because we didn’t have any aircraft carriers?

“As ever, it’s not enough to have the ambition, you need to have the clout.”

“Clout” is a curious word to use in the context of foreign aid. Are we saying that we had to FORCE this aid on Congo? Would they have refused to accept the money if we were less militarily powerful? Is talking about force and power and “clout” a tactful use of language when the subject is warzone rape?

“The United Kingdom is one of the most successful political and economic unions there has ever been. We can act as a powerful force for good in the world”

Go tell that to hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and Afghans.

“but our strength lies in our unity. We are stronger and safer together.”

“Safer”, also, is an odd word to use in the context of helping rape victims. Are warzone rape victims a threat the population of the UK needs protecting against?

“That’s why, on 18 September this year, I sincerely hope and trust that the people of Scotland will vote to remain part of the United Kingdom.”

Good grief. So if Scotland votes to determine its own governments, we’ll be turning our backs on the victims of warzone rape, and therefore by implication contributing to it? Any decent human being, whether Yes or No voter or undecided, ought to be outraged at such a despicable piece of politicking. And it’s not the first time it’s happened – last year we highlighted a prominent Lib Dem activist saying much the same thing, trying to link a Yes vote in Scotland to increased rape elsewhere in the world.

(In fact, subsequent tweets from Ms Davidson appeared to reveal that the “outraged” “cabernats” hadn’t even been referring to the rape issue at all, but simply calling for general anti-Tory protests at the event, which Davidson had then chosen to twist into being protests specifically about Hague’s opposition to warzone rape, making her comments – remarkably – even more crass and offensive than they’d first seemed.)

davidsonrape

We’ve been saying for quite a while that we expect the No campaign to get dirtier and nastier as the referendum nears, but we must admit that we weren’t anticipating such senior ministers descending to such appalling tactics this soon. We confess ourselves a little surprised that Ruth Davidson is so determinedly drawing attention to it.

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    1. 17 01 14 15:08

      Ruth cuts the caber nats down to size | Leithal Yak

    139 to “Vote No or the women and children get it”

    1. gordoz says:

      Ugg

      UK good !!, Scotland umm very bad !!. Burny hot fires – hell and damnation !!

      FFS Something more like this for the natives ?

    2. gordoz says:

      Rev –

      Is it ok to be a Cabernat ?

      Im not clear on that one ?

    3. desimond says:

      By the way, Ms Susan Calman ( you ever seen her and Ruth the Truth in the same room btw?) on BBC QI tonight…I hope no-one on the panel or the audience upset her or we could another death threat bollocks-talk on our hands

    4. That’s pretty damned shocking. I suppose it oughtn’t to be, but still. I’ll look forward to him being grilled about these claims by the media later.

    5. Training Day says:

      An odious speech swimming in sanctimoniousness and colonial arrogance, utterly divorced from anything resembling reality.

      Did he get tips from Chris Deerin?

    6. Craig P says:

      Let them wallow in their crassness.

    7. Vronsky says:

      I think she means cabernet as in sauvignon. In which case I’m definitely one.

    8. desimond says:

      Do Cabernats cause Scots Elm Disease?

      The line about Scotland having no aircraft carriers…does the UK have any these days?…( apols for long link but relevant i hope)

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539398/Royal-Navy-aircraft-carrier-HMS-Illustrious-axed-MoD-new-lease-life-luxury-yacht-doubles-disaster-relief-ship.html

    9. Barry Blust says:

      “The United Kingdom is one of the most successful political and economic unions there has ever been. We can act as a powerful force for good in the world”

      Not anymore.

    10. pmcrek says:

      Hague reaches a whole new level of hypocrisy as a list of human rights abuses recently submitted to the ICC details over 400 incidents of UK forces in Iraq engaging in torture, rape and humiliation.

    11. titchyboy85 says:

      Maybe the Tory party should be as enthusiastic in condemning British torture methods?

    12. Mealer says:

      Ruth Davidson seems to have very little confidence in the abilities of an independent Scotland to do good in the world.I think that is reciprocated.Thats why only 7.5 percent of the folk in Glasgow Kelvin voted for her.

    13. Tony Little says:

      Well perhaps she is referring to a cybernat who can toss the caber whilst online? Must have a pretty good Ap for that, I would have thought, particularly in inclement weather. Caber tossing is not for the faint hearted!

    14. Brian Powell says:

      I guess Ms Davidson needs some advice; when trying to be clever with argument and words, she needs to be clever with arguments and words, otherwise she comes across as an ignorant, witless, offensive fool.

    15. heedtracker says:

      “No campaign to get dirtier and nastier” It is, with usual very hard vote NO reportage from BBC etc but now they include some feeble wee vapid YES rebuttal that always looks concocted but infact its pretty insidious attack. Here in Aberdeen, the Press and Journal’s started using this style of reportage now but its the BBC in Scotland online they’re copying.

    16. William Duguid says:

      We always have to be throwing our weight around and exercising “clout”, don’t we? Why couldn’t we simply speak quietly and advocate right and moral courses of action?

      70% of the United Nations (to which I take it Scotland would be allowed entry) endorsed the declaration. Reckon an independent Scotland would endorse it too, unless the dire consequences of a Yes vote include a terrible shortage of pens.

    17. jpfife says:

      Ha ha, Roofy goes ‘put put’.

    18. I got angry and made a rather intemperate graphic to share.

    19. KillieBoab says:

      I’m quite partial to a wee Cabernat Sauvignon.

    20. gordoz says:

      I not sure Ruth would know much about ‘Caber Tossing’ so to speak.

    21. Gizzit says:

      Perhaps “caber” is Ruthie speak for the membrum virile.

    22. Cath says:

      ““Clout” is a curious word to use in the context of foreign aid. ”

      And indeed warzone rape.

    23. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      This individual – Ruth Davidson – has crossed a line in linking “cabernats” to wartime rape: She is an offensive lunatic.

    24. kininvie says:

      ‘Clout’ should be added to the Klaxon list. All it means is ‘We were once a Great Power and are trying to pretend we still are.’

      More to the point, it’s all very well holding a summit about warzone rape, but that’s hardly going to put an end to it. It’s not like landmines or white phosphorous where you can actually do something about manufacture or use.

    25. Indy_Scot says:

      I try my best to avoid seeing or hearing anything Ruth Davidson has to say, but when I do have the misfortune of chancing upon her, to me she just comes across as a wind up merchant.

    26. gordoz says:

      If we are all outraged, then we must be Cabernats!!

      First Scotsman in space will be a Cabernuat!

      I love this, thanks Ruth

      Wings poster = Cabernat

      (Must admit I now prefer Cabernaut, much more inspirational & ambitious!)

    27. Jimbo says:

      What’s the difference between Cameron and Hague when it comes to Cameron stating he does not have a vote and therefore the referendum is for the Scots alone to decide?

    28. G H Graham says:

      I read the complete transcript written by William Hague.

      It’s a fine example of & contrived piece of opportunistic & patronising British jingoism.

      Apparently, the Edinburgh Fringe & the Highlands of Scotland are benefits of being in the UK. I had no idea these were gifted to us by the collective generosity of the Great British people.

      Thanks for setting the record straight William. I promise to show my gratitude by washing & ironing that old Butchers’ Apron, my cat’s using to line his bed with.

    29. Papadocx says:

      Ruthie leader of tolly 1: NASTY NASTY PIECE OF WORK, BANKER FOR TOLLY 2.

      JOHAN leader of tolly 2 : Fifth Column, slugs united. Quisling, TOLLY 2 HIT SQUAD FOR TOOLY1

    30. Macart says:

      Ruth Davidson running interference for Hague’s dubious assertions.

      Pretty much all there is to it. He’s a pillock for suggesting Scotland would take a back seat on such issues and Ms Davidson is on shaky ground trying to defend his mince.

      Mind you, when your boss makes an insulting arse of himself its reassuring to know you can count on the underlings to run to your defence.

    31. caz-m says:

      I hope William Hague hunts down the animals that committed these atrocities. I know wee Ruthie will want to see the culprits taken before the International Criminal Courts.

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/sep/14/iraq-rape-british-soldiers-accused

    32. chalks says:

      I can see it now, the various tribal wars that go on in Africa, that the UK and many others choose not to get involved in, the murdering, raping scumbags, will suddenly turn round and say ‘wait, we can’t do this, there was a big meeting about it’

    33. Geoff Huijer says:

      These people are beneath contempt.

      Stewart Bremner – I like it.

    34. Big Jock says:

      Nutters the lot of them. They are sichophantic to the end. Oh London masters let me bow down and kiss your feet while you drain Scotland of it’s wealth.How can you appeal to their sense of logic when it defies all reason. They enjoy their role as servant and master. They will not tell me how to think or what nationality I am. I am Scottish not British.

    35. Taranaich says:

      In addition to all this, I found the fact that this was William Hague talking about the UK armed forces being a force for good in the world, when THIS JUST HAPPENED:

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-devastating-dossier-on-abuse-by-uk-forces-in-iraq-goes-to-international-criminal-court-9053735.html

      A devastating 250-page dossier, detailing allegations of beatings, electrocution, mock executions and sexual assault, has been presented to the International Criminal Court, and could result in some of Britain’s leading defence figures facing prosecution for “systematic” war crimes.

      General Sir Peter Wall, the head of the British Army; former defence secretary Geoff Hoon; and former defence minister Adam Ingram are among those named in the report, entitled “The Responsibility of UK Officials for War Crimes Involving Systematic Detainee Abuse in Iraq from 2003-2008”.

      The damning dossier draws on cases of more than 400 Iraqis, representing “thousands of allegations of mistreatment amounting to war crimes of torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment”.

      They range from “hooding” prisoners to burning, electric shocks, threats to kill and “cultural and religious humiliation”. Other forms of alleged abuse include sexual assault, mock executions, threats of rape, death, and torture.

      The formal complaint to the ICC, lodged yesterday, is the cumulation of several years’ work by Public Interest Lawyers (PIL) and the European Centre for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR). It calls for an investigation into the alleged war crimes, under Article 15 of the Rome Statute.

      The dossier, seen by The Independent on Sunday, is the most detailed ever submitted to the ICC’s Office of the Prosecutor on war crimes allegedly committed by British forces in Iraq. The court has already acknowledged that there was little doubt that war crimes were committed.

      It seems inopportune at best and grotesquely, shamefully hypocritical at the worst to say at one point the UK has done much to alleviate warzone rape, while its own forces are ON TRIAL FOR WARZONE RAPE.

    36. desimond says:

      @gordoz

      Now we finally have a feel good answer to the age old question :

      Q: “What have the Scottish Tories ever done for us?”
      A: Given us the title ‘cabernat’

    37. CameronB says:

      Of course we wouldn’t help these rape victims. Owen Smith MP (Labour, Pontypridd), tells us;

      “Because nationalism, in Scotland as elsewhere, is all about the selfish gene. It’s I’m alright Jack philosophy little different in its effect from the divisive ideology of the right, though founded on ethnicity rather than class, or wealth or Boris Johnson’s IQ test.”

      Divide and conquer.

      What was it Disraeli said about working-class leaders?

    38. gordoz says:

      Now what was Ruth the mooth bleating on about ??

    39. Murray McCallum says:

      “… after a sustained diplomatic effort, 70% of the member states of the United Nations have endorsed a declaration to end these abhorrent crimes.”

      Ignoring the appalling insinuation that voting ‘Yes’ to be an independent country in any way makes you against this effort, I do not understand William Hague’s “achievement”.

      He has failed to get approval from almost 1/3rd of UN members from what would appear to be a topic that +99% of the world’s population would agree to.

      Clearly UK diplomatic efforts have little or no impact in 1/3rd of the world. Why is that?

    40. Jimbo says:

      Cabernat?

      Maybe a Freudian slip here? Maybe somebody daydreaming about those big, dirty, rough cybernats and their cabers?

    41. Macandroid says:

      Maybe she meant “Caber Gnat” which is a non-bitey midgie thing that can be a problem for caber tossers if there is a big cloud of them around the competition area (Gnats that is not tossers – oh I don’t know though!).

    42. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Anyone have anything on how the Alexander/Hague roadshow went down this morning? I heard RIC were planning some kind of a protest, but details elusive.

    43. liz says:

      It’s amazing that a small country of slightly more than 5m people going independent will somehow destabilise the entire world.

      With that and the horrendous JoLa leading her troops in showing contempt for the Scots with her lies in Holyrood, just how god-awful are these people?

      They have definitely been promoted way beyond their intellegence.

    44. HandandShrimp says:

      One must assume that Ruth is not a moron so on the off chance she is reading….

      Hague is a patronising twit. Ending warzone rape is a very good thing using that fact to justify/prop up the other 80% of his article is just lame.

      Your argument that if you think his Better Together twaddle is nonsense then you support warzone is actually both offensive, idiotic and moronic….actually forget my first nine words

    45. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      Sorry, OT.

      Can anyone refer me to blogs, sites or fb pages of armed forces for indy? Ta. Have googled but not with much joy.

      Maybe there aren’t any?

      Cheers

    46. fairiefromtheearth says:

      Aye its strange these war criminals, are pretending to care about their victims and surley their is a law about someone in public service lying to the people they serve. i wont hold my breath waiting for the police or CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM to sort them out.

    47. Geoff Huijer says:

      I thought the reason Cameron won’t debate with Salmond
      is because it is ‘for Scots to decide’ etc.

      So why is Hague up here promoting the Union?

      Hypocrisy? Never…

    48. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      PS, I am currently in an argument with someone who is voting No because “Alex Salmond just wants his name up in lights along side William Wallace”. Using William Wallace to justify them voting no!

    49. Geoff Huijer says:

      Robyn – as you no doubt know if it
      was all about Salmond getting his name in lights
      he would’ve joined Labour decades ago and probably
      would have been a UK Prime Minister by now.

      FFS who are these ‘I’m voting no coz I don’t like
      Salmond people’. Does that mean they love David Camron?

      Unbelievable.

    50. Doug Daniel says:

      Obvious insults aside, the general premise of what they’re saying here – similarly used in terms of the EU – doesn’t even make mathematical sense.

      On issues like this, where Scotland and rUK will clearly share a common goal, it’s actually beneficial to have two nations put their name to something, instead of simply one. Just like the combined weight of Scotland and rUK’s individual voting powers in the EU will be significantly greater than the UK’s currently is.

      So with independence, not only will we be able to have our own distinctive voice when required – i.e. when an issue suits Scotland but not London – but we’ll also be able to combine with other countries to increase the number of countries pressuring for things to happen.

      Issues like this just show you how unionism completely bypasses logic. There is no way of defending these kind of comments, unless you’re saying that an independent Scotland would support rape as a weapon of war, and the UK is some sort of civilising force on us. Which, of course, is absolute horse-shit.

    51. caz-m says:

      Have you noticed how that arse Hague tries to make himself look important in the latest Syrian Peace Talks. He jumps about the stage trying to get into the action like a clumsy extra on a Benny Hill sketch.

      Twat, as the say in the Deep South.

    52. Craig P says:

      The ‘clout’ argument interestingly is a strong component in populist Russian nationalism. It is used to give a vicarious thrill to folk whose own experience of life is of grindingly shite powerlessness. Personally I would rather just improve the quality of life of ordinary people, mad as that idea might sound to the William Hague or Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

    53. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      Am honestly in a state of bemusement with the line of their argument. And I’m going through a hypomanic episode just now and can be a bit random with my thinking as a result. It’s a bizarre line of argument.

      I am honestly looking forward to it being all over as I am finding it’s starting to get to me. I never wish my life away but roll on September.

    54. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      @ Robyn – Quine fae Torry
      PS, I am currently in an argument with someone who is voting No because “Alex Salmond just wants his name up in lights along side William Wallace”. Using William Wallace to justify them voting no!

      Good luck with that. I suppose if that’s the level they’re willing to think on they’d rather have Alistair Darling and David Cameron up there with their names in lights instead. But it’s not some soert of pop-idol thing: wouldn’t they rather have their country with its name in lights? I’m sure that’s what Salmond himself would far prefer, if he ever thought about it in these terms.

    55. CameronB says:

      Sorry for going OT, banging on about the Fabians, and the length of quote, but I just read this about their early outlook. OK, its from Wiki, but have things really changed or is it as it was, is, and shall be?

      !In 1900 the Society produced Fabianism and the Empire, the first statement of its views on foreign affairs, drafted by Bernard Shaw and incorporating the suggestions of 150 Fabian members. It was directed against the liberal individualism of those such as John Morley and Sir William Harcourt.[13] It claimed that the classical liberal political economy was outdated, and that imperialism was the new stage of the international polity. The question was whether Britain would be the centre of a world empire or whether it would lose its colonies and end up as just two islands in the North Atlantic.

      It expressed support for Britain in the Boer War because small nations, such as the Boers, were anachronisms in the age of empires.[13] In order to hold onto the Empire, the British needed to fully exploit the trade opportunities secured by war; maintain the British armed forces in a high state of readiness to defend the Empire; the creation of a citizen army to replace the professional army; the Factory Acts would be amended to extend to 21 the age for half-time employment, so that the thirty hours gained would be used in “a combination of physical exercises, technical education, education in civil citizenship…and field training in the use of modern weapons”

      Perhaps not the training of civilians in the use of modern weapons. 🙂

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabians

    56. Paul says:

      Yes it is great to use all that clout like they did in Aden, Palestine and Iraq just to name a few the entire world must be praying that Britain can give them some more clout. You have to despair at the leadership of the unionist parties are they being that stupid deliberately.

    57. Gillie says:

      I am surprised that Alex Salmond hasn’t already been accused of trying to murder the baby Jesus.

    58. Greannach says:

      To be fair to Ruth “voice of light and shade” Davidson, there’s probably quite a lot of phenomena in the world that leave her saying, “Don’t get it”, things like gravity, night and day, the seasons, reality, Annabel Goldie’s accent. Poor soul.

    59. chalks says:

      Robyn – Quine fae Torry – Ask them if Salmond wasn’t around, would they believe in independence?

      The very fact that independence would result in someone being made famous, would indicate a good thing?

    60. chalks says:

      Rather than infamy

    61. Training Day says:

      @Robyn

      You think that’s illogical? I encountered a guy in an Edinburgh pub on the day of the rally who, when asked why he opposed independence, said that he didn’t want to be ruled by public schoolboys..

    62. Dcanmore says:

      Ah using ‘clout’, that will be the imperial clout that enacted Rule 303 that brought so much peace and stability to the world. Just like the ‘force projection’ spin of today. How did Britain remain in India for an extra 40 years? … the machine gun! How did the magnificent British Empire control the civilian Boer population? … concentration camps! How did Britain maintain the power of her ‘allies’ like Saddam Hussein, Pinochet and Botha in the 1980s? … weapons! A force for good my arse, I don’t see Britain building houses and hospitals in poor countries. It still is divide and conquer then replace one gang with another.

    63. Marcia says:

      For Les and others –

      to make a long link into a short link you can do it here;

      http://tinyurl.com/

    64. jingly jangly says:

      Robyn – Quine fae Torry

      I doubt if any serving forces personnel would put their head above the parapet with a Forces for YES movement.

      The morale in the UK Armed forces is at a very low level and they are in fear of redundancy. One who had served for 22 years and due a good pension was made redundant six weeks before their term was up, meaning that the pension was not payable.

      Some members of the Armed forces I know use other peoples computers to read WOS and other pro-indy web sites as they are afraid they will get noticed if they use their own computers/phones.

    65. Kev says:

      Dear god, you are getting a summit because other UN members agree about the seriousness of the issue not because you’ve whipped them all into line, try and hold a summit on the merits of expanding fracking round the globe and see how many countries turn up…

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      Rubberthingy,s@selfsecers.co.uk>

      New line, The Wee RUTHIE,ads pleasure to your lonely night,s in.

      Also for the larger twat,The CABER, both line,s vigorisly

      tested to UK safety standards.Endorsment by Wee Ruthie

      herself,signed operation instruction,s. ( exclude,s

      battery,s).

    67. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but has anyone sullied their eyes by checking the DM?

      It appears oor Gorgeous George is willing to debate with Mr Salmond anytime , anywhere on the subject of independence.

    68. ronnie anderson says:

      SOS Rev , could,nt resist

    69. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s the speech Danny Alexander delivered at the Lighthouse, in Glasgow, this morning. It also contains a rare snap of him not holding a box of cereal.

      I was going to compose a ditty to mark the occasion, but couldn’t think of anything to rhyme with ‘lighthouse’.

      Come back soon Danny!

      https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/chief-secretary-to-the-treasury-danny-alexander-on-scotland-analysis-eu-and-international-issues

    70. Garryaitch says:

      I’m ex-forces and will be voting YES. There is a Veterans for Indy site;

      https://www.causes.com/causes/650156-veterans-for-scottish-independence

      Nothing much happening there tho….

    71. ronnie anderson says:

      Am no a Cybernat,a Cabernat, a Scot,s nat, bit am no a blidy UK DoorMat.

    72. CameronB says:

      Further to Les Wilson’s link about drone strikes;

      Classified Documents Show CIA Has No Clue Who It’s Killing

      “About one of every four of those killed by drones in Pakistan between Sept. 3, 2010, and Oct. 30, 2011, were classified as “other militants,” the documents detail. The “other militants” label was used when the CIA could not determine the affiliation of those killed, prompting questions about how the agency could conclude they were a threat to U.S. national security.

      This is similar to the Obama administration’s strategy for keeping the civilian death toll low by labeling any military age male killed in a drone strike a “militant”.”

      http://raniakhalek.com/2013/06/05/classified-documents-show-cia-has-no-clue-who-its-killing-in-targeted-drone-strikes/

    73. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      @ Chalks, I am arguing with people who are identifying themselves as Labour voters. The Wallace response is bizarre but it all seems to stem from a hatred of Alex Salmond. That is the defining thing for them not voting Yes. It’s crazy but also worrying. My opinion of Salmond is positive but is not something I passionately feel unlike these people I’m talking to.

      It took me a long time to see Labour’s true colours but I have more contempt for them than the Tories now. That party has so much to be ashamed about and they are conning people. I’m trying to be sympathetic to the people I’m arguing with and a lot of what they say is just repeated from mainstream media – apart from teh Wallace thing, I think even the media would see that as bizarre. I can see the headline now: “William Wallace would vote No!”

      It’s like what I was raving about the other day about my shite education and having my Scottishness subverted and I just feel more angry about it lately and I feel a bit sorry for the folk I’m arguing with because they are mostly from the same background as me. It makes me feel ashamed that things have gotten this way. That’s a motivator for me to vote Yes so that the next generations have a chance.

      Sorry Rev for OTing again. You are doing a grand job with Wings.

    74. Caroline Corfield says:

      Funny how it was wee Norway that brokered the peace deal in Sri Lanka and not the post colonial commonwealth friend that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    75. Craig P says:

      Ian Brotherhood:

      Wee Danny appeared in the light
      to say “youse couldnae run shite!
      But spare me your thanks
      I’ve gave you foodbanks!”
      and aff he slunk intae the night.

    76. turnbull drier says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood.

      Surely, “wee ginger mouse”.

    77. Les Wilson says:

      Marcia says:
      Thanks Marcia, I will endeavour to remember that. The trouble was that I could not see the link was so large or I would not have put it on. With your info, I will try and do better.

    78. turnbull drier says:

      sorry should have refreshed, you clearly didn’t need a rhyme anymore 🙂

    79. Rough Bounds says:

      It seems to me that there is nothing new anywhere: William Hague going on about rape in war time for instance.

      Back in the 8th. century the king of the Picts, Brude MacDerile, ratified St. Adamnan’s ‘Law of the Innocents’ which protected women and children from the horrors of war.

      Adamnan was St. Columba’s biographer. King Brude MacDerile died in 706 ad. That is thirteen hundred years ago.

      The Tories have nothing to teach us Scots about how bloody and awful war is. We know it full well and we are sick of it.

    80. Ken MacColl says:

      When I saw the heading for this piece I thought it was about Ian Davidson, MP.

    81. orkers says:

      @Robyn – Quine fae Torry

      “I think even the media would see that as bizarre. I can see the headline now: “William Wallace would vote No!”

      Somebody from BT said that several months ago.

    82. Les Wilson says:

      CameronB says:

      Cameron thanks for tidying uk the link. However, as far as I can see your link does not talk about the UK part in this, where my link did. Appreciated none the less.

    83. Macart says:

      @Robyn

      Stick to what they want for Scotland, get them thinking about what they, as a truly Scottish Labour Party, might deliver. Point them toward Allan Grogan and LFI get other indy supportive Labour people to do the talking and convincing. You could also point them to LFI Facebook and twitter pages.

      The best people to convince a diehard Labour voter is a Labour voter.

    84. Albamac says:

      @William Duguid

      Why couldn’t we simply speak quietly

      Because they’d accuse us of carrying big sticks? 🙂

    85. Helpmaboab says:

      What strikes me most about Ruth’s neologism is that ‘A’ and ‘Y’ aren’t very close on a keyboard. It wasn’t a slip of the fingers, it was a Freudian slip.

      In the privacy of her own brain does she really associate nationalists with long, rigid wooden poles and strapping men in kilts? This may be a valuable insight…

    86. heedtracker says:

      Scotland is a colony. Biggest colonial exploitation of 2013 was probably this one, airbrushed by the BBC as per
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23681061

      £4.5 thousand million offshore expro investment in Norwegian yards on new giant Clair field production jackets for deep water West coast Scots oil fields. Profit taken by BP and tax by Treasury. So Westminster “gives” Scotland Barnett handout while all that investment, employment, profit and decision making flow over and around the Scottish nation in waiting or same old exploitation with idiots like that man on the telly Richard Maddely grinching about ungrateful Scottish scroungers taking his money.

    87. heedtracker says:

      BP even call the new Clair jacket Odin, in case we do miss the point.

    88. William Duguid says:

      @Albamac

      Such as cabers?

    89. Helena Brown says:

      I think Ruth is looking for me, something about her makes me call her Rosie and I have several time online. So if I am a caber-nat so be it, but as I have given up the grape for Cairn O’Mohr I don’t think so.

    90. CameronB says:

      Les Wilson

      I should have posted the direct link to the nbcnews report, which may have made more sense. The point I was trying to make, is that the JOINT OPERATIONS that your link discussed, appear to be very loosely controlled.

      Non-judicial murder and guilty until proven innocent appears to be the rules of engagement for our JOINT OPERATIONS.

      Apologies for the crude formatting, but I haven’t gotten to grips with tags. Miss the editor too. ;(
      (only joking Rev., but I do miss it)

    91. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      @ orkers – unbelievable!

      @ Macart – I have linked them to LFI via facebook. Cheers.

    92. Macart says:

      @Robyn

      Here tae help. 🙂

    93. Oneironaut says:

      The sad (and rather disturbing) thing is, there are people out there who will actually believe this the way they’re trying to twist it…

      I was in Glasgow yesterday but didn’t know all this was going on.
      Did some sort of protest actually happen, or did Hague take the hint and stay as far away from Scotland as possible?

      Being out of the mainstream is good for the free will, but it does keep you a bit out of touch sometimes!

    94. fairiefromtheearth says:

      These rent boy and crack whore polititions have been raping and enslaving us for over 300 years now, 1st thing we need to do in an independant Scotland is set up ower own central bank, that lends at 0% intreast usary is a sin in every holy book. lets get out of the British pound ponzy scheme and have our monies backed by silver like the British pound is supposed to be.

    95. Andy-B says:

      Ms Davidson just can’t play fair, she has form when it comes to twisting comments, yesterdays FMQ’s goes along way to prove this.

      What the hells going on,David Cameron says its not for him to debate independence, yet we have William Hague, Danny Alexander, and now Harriet Harman, preaching to us about, how bad things could get if we vote yes. It seems Cameron is hiding is his Der Bunker, but the rest of Westminster are adding their tuppance worth.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-debate-harriet-harman-3030909

    96. Arbroath 1320 says:

      @Robyn – quine fae Torry

      I don’t know about any armed forces for independence groups but there is a veteran’s for independence group which may be of some help to you.

      http://tinyurl.com/m4lvqfl

      http://tinyurl.com/l7dnl9e

      Hope these help. 🙂

    97. Jamie Arriere says:

      In case Ruthie doesn’t know, we up here have been protecting women in conflict since 679AD (Cain Adamnan – Law of the Innocents), long before the Union was even contemplated. If anyone knows an earlier precedent, please enlighten us (prob the Greeks)

      And it isn’t the UK that provides the clout on any issue, it’s the 70% of nations in the UN which will pass any measures, and sanction its enforcement – Scotland will add to the 70%!

      This is not an issue that divides anyone. And calling us all tossers will not add to your voters or membership either.

    98. Peter Macbeastie says:

      And the award for the most stupid, insulting, downright laughable insult of the year so far goes to Ruth Davidson. This one will probably last the year and be a contender for the overall prize.

      And that’s saying something considering the competition.

      Is it ok to say that I absolutely hate these people? Ruth Davidson, Hague, Alexander, Baillie, Iain Davidson…. basically Tories of all their assorted party colours. Seriously; they lie, they cheat, they misdirect, they distort and omit. They do this to us all on a near daily basis and for someone as frankly moderate mannered as me to state I hate someone must have other people less mild ready to pick up weapons and show them just how much hatred they’ve got.

    99. fairiefromtheearth says:

      The UN thats a joke as well, 65 wars since ww2 its like ww2 never ended just one long war and anyone who speaks out against it well just ask Gaddaffi.

    100. chalks says:

      Robyn, yep as others have said, best way to open their mind up if Labour voters is the Labour for Indy group….for a bit of fun you could also direct them to Henry McLeish’s last article in the scotsman? Or the herald, where we says what the no campaign should do…..see if they agree with that….then when that doesn’t happen you can beat them with that particular stick……

    101. Arbroath 1320 says:

      When the wee baldie one talks about the U.N. would this be the same U.N. that his great leader, Cameron, and the great leader of the free world, Obama, decided to by-pass when they wanted to bomb Syria by any chance? 🙂

    102. CameronB says:

      Less Wilson
      I meant to say the CIA and MI6 will be ‘pooling and sharing’ their intelligence. 🙁

    103. Jimbo says:

      In Alexander’s speech at the Lighthouse today he tells us that Scotland’s membership of the EU would go up – that the UK gets a rebate because it takes out less than other member states.

      Now, if Scotland is the economic basket case that the likes of Alistair Darling, William (Scotland would become a high tax ghetto) Hague and Co keep telling us it is, wouldn’t it follow that Scotland would get more out than most other member states?

      Alexander also mentioned the Common Agricultural Policy and the impact it has had on Scotland. He obviously (purposely) forgot about the quarter million pounds designated for Scottish farmers that Westminster has held onto.

      Then there’s the UK’s £3 billion EU rebate that he tells us took 12 years to achieve – but forgot to mention that it was at the cost of Scotland’s fishing fleet.

      Does no-one at these shindigs ever pull these liars up?

    104. fairiefromtheearth says:

      oh if you dont get what i mean about the UN, it was set up to STOP wars not santion them. If one member state of the UN starts a war all the other members are supposed to go to war against the agressor hows that working out? just more lying career polititions lol it really is a joke time to wake up Scotland we have been asleep for too long.

    105. Juteman says:

      For a so called ‘leader’ of a party to post such a tweet is disgraceful.
      No class.

    106. Jimbo says:

      @ Jamie Arriere

      The Romans couldn’t comprehend the compassion and caring the ancient Celts showed towards the infirm, the elderly and the weakest in their society.

    107. liz says:

      @Robyn – you could also point them to the article on the beeb website – yes I know shock horror – talking about 7 other supporters of indy which also mentions LFI.

    108. Albert Herring says:

      Jimbo
      The UK, or rather London, gets the rebate, in exchange for eschewing regional development funds. Why do you think we’ve no decent roads?

    109. Andy-B says:

      O/T Rev I do apologise.

      Gordon Brown is said to be furious, at the Ministry of Defence, after finding out that they may just build a wall around the area of Dalgety Bay thats affected with radiation.

      Other measures that will be considered are new warning signs, or even a mesh fence to stop more radioactive particles being released. Thousands of radioactive particles have been found on Dalgety Bay, its believed they came from instruments from world war two aircraft, that were dumped at Dalgety Bay.

      Source Daily Record, no link I’m afraid.

    110. Les Wilson says:

      Norrie says:

      Like your sense of humour, I hope plenty other go and have a giggle.

    111. joe kane says:

      Better Together really are a shambles.

      Imagine coming to Scotland and bringing up the subject of the Democratic Republic of Congo as a pro-unionist argument, that the world is a better place because of the existence of the UK, after last year’s exposure of Tory and BT donor Ian Taylor’s dodgy buisness dealings in that area of the world made possible by the UK’s dodgy tax laws.

      If BT really are interested in criminal activity in the DRC they could always start investigating their own supporters first. Maybe even do something about changing British laws which make such exploitation possible in the first place.

      Of course when cybernats, or Cabernats even, tried to expose BT and tory malfeasance in the DCR they were subjected to a barrage of unionist abuse, censorship and all sorts of legal threats and intimidation.

      So much for the DCR as an example of the British elite’s “fair play” in action.

      References –
      Our Statements & Legal Response to Ian Taylor/Vitol Group
      National Collective
      http://nationalcollective.com/2013/04/20/our-statements-legal-response-to-ian-taylorvitol-group/

      Legal correspondence
      WOS
      http://wingsoverscotland.com/legal-correspondence/

    112. Jimsie says:

      OT. All my pro independence comments have been deleted from Youtube. Anyone else had this happen to them?

    113. Patrick Roden says:

      @ Andy B,

      Gordon Brown Furious! There’s an article over in Newsnet in which one of the comments has an article from 1987 showing that Brown knew all about the contamination even then!

      He refused to do anything when he was in power as well, so the big useless lump can put himself forward as the champion of Dalgety if he wants but it’s just another Labour Party deception that takes the people of Scotland for fools.

    114. Jimbo says:

      @ Albert herring

      Yes, thanks, Albert.

    115. Baheid says:

      O/T

      Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp on RT News at six o’clock

    116. Patrick Roden says:

      Oh the British elite did a deal with the French elite at the end of the 1st World war (Yes the one we are about to celebrate, hurrah!)

      The Sykes Picot agreement ensured that the UK’s Navy could control the Suez and would protect the lucrative business routes to Asia (especially India)

      This meant secretly creating divisions within the different Moslem communities and exploiting tribal histories.

      This resulted in the creation of Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon.

      The re-establishing of the nation of Israel wasn’t expected at this time so with the UK having control of Palastine/Israel a division existed that the UK believed would result in the Ottoman empire never being re-established, with a navy that could threaten the RN.

      Millions of Moslem have died as a result of this and all for the sake of the business elite of London.

      This only became known because the Russians leaked it to the press when the Soviet Union was formed.

      I wonder of Anas Sarwar is aware of this, because a Moslem couldn’t support a system that killed Moslems for business reasons…surely?

    117. CameronB says:

      I suppose a supersonic drone capable of intercontinental flight (fully armed), gives you a lot of clout. Who needs this and what for? Do we get one in the settlement?

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/timtreadgold/2013/06/18/worlds-first-supersonic-drone-ready-for-its-maiden-flight/

    118. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ Robyn QFT. Great to see you back posting. I happened to swing by the YES stall at M&S last Saturday and snaffled a handful of the YES newsheets version 2. Oooops left one on the bus where the Metro usually is. Gave one to a DKnow who converted immediately to a Yes when she saw the Proclaimers. Go figure eh? Its a great newsheet and one that you could hand out to your Labour minded friends.

    119. Clootie says:

      Dcanmore

      A great summary of GB’s “influence”

      You forgot the gunships.

      What about Churchills mass murder of anti-communist troops sent back to Stalin in 1946.

      Where was the aid in 1845 for the Irish, 750,000 died over 10years.

      In 1760 Britain was the foremost European country in the slave trade.

      1839 Opium wars which was settled at gunpoint.(1856 for a second go)

      The Berlin conference of 1884 – “Carving up Africa”.

      The partion of India / Palestine / The industrial revolution.

      What a force for good Great Britain has been.

    120. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Has anybody ever heard First Minister Alex Salmond make a personalattack or saya bad word about anybody.
      I asked somebody who was coming away with the fat Alex Salmond is a liar stuff and she couldn’t tell me any lie or anytime she had heard Alex Salmond bad mouth anybody. She left me a lot more thoughtful than when I first met her

    121. Anders says:

      Oldest trick in the book……

      If you want people to buy into your message, start with something they can agree with, the more emotionally stirring, the better.

    122. Ken500 says:

      That will be the YES vote up several percentage points. Just at the sight of any Unionist Tory. Haste ye back.

      Thanks Hague and the sidekick, trying desperately, not to be ignored. Empty vessel make the most noise.

      The HRC at the Hague is extremely interested in the Iraq torture revelations, and the hush up monies, all courtesy of taxpayers. Chilcott is ready to apportion blame, despite the Hush up.

      Obama – Cameron is a lightweight (unelected)
      Putin – Westminster is irrelevant.
      China – Britain is a small insignificant place without Empire.
      EU – UKIP – right Tories

    123. Derek says:

      Hague was on Today (radio 4) this morning too; sometime between 7.30 and Thought For The Day. I think they dealt with him ok, but I was a bit dozy at the time….

    124. Ken500 says:

      Balfour Agreement 1917 – Lord Balfour/Lord Rothschild (secret) -established ( the right to a State of Israel in Palestine. Lloyd George PM. The Arabs were promised the vote for fighting with the Allies in the 1WW. Westminster reneged. Lawrence of Arabia was campaigning to give the Arabs the vote. Lawrence was killed in a motorbike accident.

      The Middle East was carved up by Britain/France – divided into territories under British or French dominance. US commercial interest Oil. America – Sun Oil Co. 1913.

    125. call me dave says:

      Ken500

      I’ve read this story before in my younger days can’t remember the book. But…

      http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2013/04/the-murder-of-lawrence-of-arabia-tony-hays

    126. Graeme McCormick says:

      Norway I also brokering the deal between the Columbian government and FARC.

    127. Colin Dunn says:

      @ Robyn
      PS, I am currently in an argument with someone who is voting No because “Alex Salmond just wants his name up in lights along side William Wallace”. Using William Wallace to justify them voting no!

      Ask them if, in 20 years when Salmond’s dead and Scotland is still the poor partner in the UK because they oited No, they’ll think to themselves “Well, that showed him.”

    128. call me dave says:

      Aye the East Germany question which I have argued with some will be the key to the EU, if we want it.

      personally I thing there should be a debate and then a vote of the people to join or no. But at the moment independence is the prize. Anyhoo!

      http://archive.is/dUqhm

    129. Albert Herring says:

      I’ve always been pro-EU, however if it continues to treat us like second class citizens by withholding legal advice it hold’s about our future status, while allowing senior officials to make vague threatening noises which aid our political opponents, well that may change.

      It’s completely unacceptable that the independence debate has been sidetracked to the extent that it has with endless streams of utter guff, when all the answers are known, and are being deliberately kept from us.

    130. Albert Herring says:

      Aaargh! holds

    131. CameronB says:

      Albert Herring
      I think the EU can only respond to brave Dave the Shameless, re. divulging legal advice. Just like the press and TV monitors.

      You couldn’t design a better stitch-up.

    132. If only Congo had oil. England raped our women quite a bit too.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes let’s get our names away from this.

    133. CameronB says:

      David Whannel
      The Congo is a major source of cobalt, copper, tin and diamonds – not to mention radium and uranium. Lots of western mining interests.

      The Hammarskjöld Commission has urged the UN to reopen its inquiry in to the cause of death of UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjöld, in 1961. He died when the Swedish-owned and crewed plane he was on crashed near Ndola airport in the British protectorate of Northern Rhodesia (now Zanbia).

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24020207

    134. Holebender says:

      Did Ruthie just call us tossers?

    135. Greannach says:

      It’s just dawned on me what Ruth Davidson means by “Cabernats”. It’s just a small spelling mistake. It should be “Cabernets”: Ruth has it is for people who drink Cabernet Sauvignon, presumably because it is so common and not exclusive enough for a sophisticate like herself.



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