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Twitching corpse stamped on

Posted on June 13, 2014 by

Daily Mail columnist Jan Moir has a piece today on the nasty comments a tiny handful of idiots made to JK Rowling this week, which – unlike the alleged “barrage” of abuse supposedly unleashed against Labour activist Clare Lally – can at least definitely be said to have happened.

janmoir

The piece is a tedious one-sided rant, but at the end something awesome happens.

“As the target of some pretty nasty trolling myself, I can assure J.K. Rowling that it is ultimately meaningless, harmless and stupid.”

Poor old Jan, eh? What must it be like to be the victim of nasty trolling? Perhaps we should ask the family of Stephen Gately and see if they’ve got a view on it.

In a world where John McTernan can, without being laughed out of a TV studio, give political advisers tips on how to conduct themselves, and where Susan Dalgety can somehow feel able to lecture other people about name-calling, the main casualty of the independence debate isn’t even truth, it’s irony.

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    1. 13 06 14 16:59

      Twitching corpse stamped on | Scottish Independence News

    286 to “Twitching corpse stamped on”

    1. eezy says:

      So true. And that’s why, what you are doing, is so important Stuart.
      So much respect for this.
      Thanks again,

      Paul

    2. McHaggis says:

      Can someone clarify to me please, as a long time user of the net (basically since it was invented) when the definition of ‘trolling’ started to include ‘name-calling and general nastiness’… Which actually is ‘flaming’..?

    3. Marc Schmidt says:

      Seems most of these folks have ignored/forgotten about the weirs.

    4. desimond says:

      Rev,
      I know your hurting, but might be best to take a night off and come back free of the adrenalin. Idiots and publicity lovers like Moir dont matter.

      The Light is far more important than the bugs it attracts.

    5. Proud Cybernat says:

      All part of the latest Unionist tactic of playing the victim and milking it for all its worth. Of course we can all forget the shocking abuse the weirs were subjected to. We can put out of our minds Darling labelling all YES voters as blood and soil nazis. We cannot raise again the shocking attack on an elderly YES supporter in Edinburgh. The ‘truth’ it seems is only what they tell you it is. The poor wee lambs.

    6. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @McHaggis says:
      Can someone clarify to me please, as a long time user of the net (basically since it was invented) when the definition of ‘trolling’ started to include ‘name-calling and general nastiness’… Which actually is ‘flaming’..?

      “recent years”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    7. Papadox says:

      Is that a puff of steam coming out of her left wing ear? She should see a DR. Or plumber or something or is she just passing wind?

    8. Juteman says:

      @Desimond.
      I doubt the good Rev is hurting. He is doing what needs to be done.

    9. chalks says:

      Debate, more like burying the truth.

    10. heedtracker says:

      The gutter press is coming after Scotland now. They look as screwed up as their propaganda but desimond’s right, take the night off, dinner and a movie Reverend. Herculean feat this week but everyone needs time out:D

    11. McHaggis says:

      “Recent years…”, pah!

      Trolling is an art form, which the finest exponents of can carry out without the victims even realising its happening. Its a shame really our media has corrupted the word through their own laziness and lack of knowledge/research.

    12. desimond says:

      Juteman
      Fair dues, I just think he’d be better enjoying his time supping on some Nettle and Buckwheat Cider ( you know hes a sucker for that exotic stuff) than channelling anger into pieces on people so very far beneath him.

    13. David says:

      JK Rowling as of three years ago was a dollar Billionaire (According to Reuters). I’m sure she couldn’t care less about foul language on the internet!

      I am disappointed that she believes Scotland is better under Westminster rule, but hey ho, onward and upward, we have bigger fish to fry.

    14. Robert Graham says:

      the question should be show us the evidence and prove its not coming from dark side HQ this lot have previous and until its proved otherwise i will continue to believe its all been set up and organised by them the next thing will be vandalism and maybe the odd bomb threat this lot will do anything and get away with it because the MSM will as usual turn a blind eye and the usual deaf ear if those people stopped and thought for a moment they would realise whos next ? once they have served there usefulness they will get the treatment as well well hell bloody mend them we tried to warn them

    15. desimond says:

      Every news program and every newspaper this weekend is going to cover powerful people telling us “YOU ARE WRONG”

      That shows we are doing something so very very right!

    16. Clootie says:

      So she is THAT Jan Moir!

      I suspect the trolling was post her article on Stephen Gately.

      O/T
      Rev I see Ronnie and others have sent some legal fighting fund donations.
      Where should it be sent and made out too? (Wings or you)
      Do you want it now or are you going to set something up?

    17. Gillie says:

      There are so many unionists on this bandwagon now the wheels have fallen off under the weight of hypocrisy.

    18. Lesley-Anne says:

      I wonder if she talked to the Weir’s before coming out with her “As the target of some pretty nasty trolling myself, I can assure J.K. Rowling that it is ultimately meaningless, harmless and stupid.” line. 😉

    19. Juteman says:

      @Desimond.
      I agree that a few swallys wouldn’t go amiss, but I doubt he is hurting.

      If the official Yes campaign insists on being 100% positive, someone needs to investigate the dirty stuff. I’m glad someone with the skills of the Rev has stepped up to the mark. I’m anything but rich, but i’ll take out a loan to pay for a holiday for him after we win this.

    20. jon esquierdo says:

      These folk are distracting peoples attention from the real problems that are facing people Low wage no wage zero hour contracts, Foodbanks and a host of others

    21. Andy-B says:

      Talking of J K Rowling here David Cameron wades into the debate, regarding Twitter.

      http://www.contactmusic.com/story/j-k-rowling-targeted-with-online-abuse-over-donation_4242697

    22. Ja Stoddart says:

      If someone was so inclined it would be a simple matter to pose as the opposition, post crap, and then scream that their real side was slandered, but that would never happen would it

    23. Illy says:

      “Can someone clarify to me please, as a long time user of the net (basically since it was invented) when the definition of ‘trolling’ started to include ‘name-calling and general nastiness’… Which actually is ‘flaming’..?”

      Probably as soon as the mainstream media started using the term. (See also: how they use “hacker” when they mean “cracker”)

      Their use of it is about as accurate as their reporting on anything else it seems.

      According to the Jargon File (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/troll.html) we’re being pretty heavily trolled by the mainstream media just now though, and falling for it.

      Then again, most of british politics seems to be nothing but trolls baiting each other for cheap points.

    24. Martin says:

      BBC Scotland website in making token mention of the truth shock!!!! (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27809898 )

      Mention of the abuse of the Weirs and even the BBC bias protest. Now admittedly, these get the briefest mention well past the point where the standard reader will had read down to, but it’s still progress.

    25. desimond says:

      @Juteman

      He wont have time for a holiday. He’ll be busy posing for that official ‘Hero of a Free Scotland’ statue at Holyrood first 🙂

    26. Andy-B says:

      Here Gordon Brown claims, we wouldn’t have access to EastEnders, Strictly Come Dancing or Match of the Day, Brown also bleats we would lose jobs, healthcare, and pensions. I can’t believe Gordon Brown, is still pushing these debunked lies.

      http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/06/13/gordon-brown-warns-telly-addicts-face-bleak-future-independent-scotland

    27. Lanarkist says:

      Oh Dear! Have we not seen this before, They pay me to be a Professional Journalist and I do what the Editors tell me to do, only following orders.

      “How dare these volunteer keyboard home working bloggers compare themselves, they are unpaid and beholden to no one, express their views on any subject never mind political ideas.

      How very dare they! They are a menace to my lively hood, my profession, my industry and my right to trash whoever I am asked to!

      They need to be vilified and I am prepared to do it for a reasonable sum and some sense of worth and job security!”

      They really do not get the new media where articles from the past come back to bite them almost instantaneously!

      WOS have more researchers available to it than any major newspaper and way by far more specialised expert knowledge in their specialist subject.

    28. Nana Smith says:

      All this is orchestrated to take the heat off cowardly Cameron. That’s the guy who stated

      “If they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together with every single fibre that I have”

      Aye right. What he really meant was “I will use every dirty trick at my disposal”

    29. Drunken Hobo says:

      Has anyone ever explained why the pejorative term “cybernat” isn’t classed as abuse?

      Or does it just not count as it’s against “Yes” supporters?

    30. gerry parker says:

      @lly.
      Aye – Hacker – definition way back, makes furniture with an axe.

      Did a bit of it myself, torturing Basic till I got the result that I wanted. Sometimes it wasn’t pretty, but the end bit (the bit they seen on the screen) looked just fine.

      🙂

    31. Alan McHarg says:

      Yet another offensive unionist, setting the tone of the debate. Pot and kettle come to mind!

    32. aldo_macb says:

      I Hope Stu has got this all out his system now and can move back to what he does best – critiques on issues that matter to people – like WMDs on the Clyde, foodbanks, the potential of our economy etc. Etc.

    33. Andy-B says:

      Tariq Ali the renowned speaker, writes on the benefits of independence, and why there’s nothing to fear about being an independent nation.

      http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/local-headlines/tariq-ali-independence-what-is-there-to-fear-nothing-1-3442821

    34. galamcennalath says:

      Project Fear, then Project Smear. And now Project Tear … Trying to create a sympathy vote.

    35. Dick Gaughan says:

      I love the bit where Jan Moir starts eulogising about how much Jakey has given to charity. Andrew Carnegie also gave a lot to charity. He also supported Pinkerton strikebreaking gunthugs, hated Trades Unions and refused to pay his workers better than starvation wages. But forget all that, he gave lots to charity so that made him a good guy.

      People like Moir really, truly do believe the rest of us zip up the back.

    36. JWil says:

      I think McTernan is a nasty piece of work. Not someone you would want to meet on a dark night.

      He admitted recently in a TV interview that negativity works, so his advice to the NO Campaign would be keep using it. I believe he is a follower of Machiavelli’s book Prince. Machiavelli was an observer who through his experience was able to define what tricks and schemes could be used against an enemy whilst keep ones own hands clean.

      It was interesting to hear three politicians who were lined up outside Westminster to giver their opinions. At the end of the interview they were asked what their favourite book was. Two out to the three said Prince, which suggests that these kinds of underhand tactics are the norm for UK politics.

    37. Proud Cybernat says:

      If you haven’t done so already, get voting. Yes still behind. Let’s give it a big push. Think of it as a trial run.

      http://uk.isidewith.com/poll/420350795-scottish-independence-poll/443458700-scotland

    38. Alex Smith says:

      @Drunken Hobo :
      “Cybernat” is obviously less abusive than “daughter in law of an ex-Glasgow Labour Provost”!

    39. Andy-B says:

      A bit of light entertainment, half of English people would rather see England win the World Cup, than see Scotland stay in the union, according to a Survation Poll, more English people are worried about the team Roy Hodgson picks, in the World Cup, than the impact Scotland will have on leaving the union.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/11/world-cup-england-scottish-independence_n_5485837.html?ir=UK+Politics

    40. Juteman says:

      Most ordinary punters don’t have a clue about these internet firestorms, but it eventually seeps into the mainstream. For instance, I mentioned the ‘Lally’ furore to another anorak at work. We were discussing it, and other folk started to join in.
      What are you pricks talking about?
      That is how the media mis/dis/lying campaign gets explained to folk that are non-political. Old Labour guys in my workplace are disgusted at what they are finding out.
      Voting Labour because your mum and dad did doesn’t work anymore.

    41. Andy-B says:

      @ Proud Cybernat

      It depends what drop down bar you click on Yes are behind in the Glasgow one but on the national one they’re well ahead 50% YES 19% N.

    42. biggpolmont says:

      Where beauty is in the eye of the beholder Trolling or insulting is in the mind of the reiever, some people are easily offended recently I was called an old arrogant fat git Iam 50ish if thats old its true I am the first to admit I am fat and my arrogance probably came from my knowledge that what I was saying was both True and the best thing for Scotland While the name caller’s arguments were one by one destroyed by mine. so yes there was probably a touch of arrogance about me I did not burst into tears and run screaming to a newspaper Just said I am sorry you feel that way but I have proved what I said was true and no amount of name calling is going to change the fact that your points were wrong.
      people should learn to be a little more thick skinned

    43. Famous15 says:

      The internet is anonymous. If I said I was the love child of j@@@@@ would you believe me. If not,why not?

      Seriously folks the best we can do is keep the party clean. It dawned on me yesterday that YES must now be in the lead. It is the only thing that makes sense of the frenzy of faux indignation.

    44. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Andy-B

      Andy–I have the filter selected for All Scotland which gives YES 41%, NO 46%. Is there something else I’m missing?

      Come on Wingers, get voting:

      http://uk.isidewith.com/poll/420350795-scottish-independence-poll/443458700-scotland

    45. muttley79 says:

      I think it is pretty clear by now that this weeks’ events were intended to take the focus away from Darling’s interview with the New Statesman, where he basically said the SNP were Nazis, or at the very least are directly comparable. The MSM clearly wanted to take attention away from it. The No campaign sensed too late what the implications are of these remarks.

      The implications of the blood and soil remarks of Darling are far reaching. The official leader of the No campaign has basically said the SNP are Nazis, which in turn is basically saying that SNP voters and the wider electorate have voted for out and out extremists. It has also sent out a clear message to the most dangerous and ignorant sections of the unionist electorate in Scotland, which obviously include the SDL, the most extreme element in the Orange Order, supporters of Northern Ireland Loyalists paramilitaries, the BNP in Scotland etc. These people will now think that they have been given the green light by the mainstream unionist politicians to act in a manner that is hardly democratic.

      Therefore, you would think that a mature, moderate MSM would have tried to dampen the atmosphere this week. Instead, they have rushed to support Darling and co, and not only that but again brought up the cybernat bogeyman (just as the wretched Iain Murray did weeks ago). This is really incredible. If I was high up in the SNP or the Yes campaign I would be absolutely livid this week. The No campaign and their MSM buddies have effectively put people at risk (hopefully nothing serious will happen in the remaining period). The disdain and indifference for the safety of their opponents in the Yes campaign is shocking.

    46. Onwards says:

      The BBC takes a break from printing hypocritical US politician statements and labour press releases, with a more balanced article.

      Rival Scots industry visions set out

      Sounds like Alistair Darling will be campaigning for a United Europe and a single currency. Or perhaps the UK becoming the 51st US state?

      “All across the world, you see where you’ve got a border, it affects trade badly because you’ve got different tax systems, different accounting systems, different regulations and currency transactions.

      “These are barriers that don’t need to exist.”

    47. muttley79 says:

      Apologies for the length of my last post everyone. It looks like an essay! Oops 😀 😀

    48. muttley79 says:

      Brian Monteith is other one who is full of bile. He is another hater. He knows fine well what he doing as well. I cannot bring myself to read his diatribes, just another Brian Wilson, John McTernan, Johann Lamont type figure.

    49. Grouse Beater says:

      Dear J K Rowling – grousebeater-wordpress

      An open rebuttle to Rowling’s demand for England’s dominance. (I live a few doors away and have met her.)

    50. heedtracker says:

      So new in the NO camp this week Andy Murray, Rowling, Hillary Clinton, a poor wee soul in labour shadow cabinet devastated over familial mix up and now, God almighty. Its hard to imagine new PR democracy in Holyrood running Scotland from the 19th September could so much hysterical opposition.

      It has to be much more than just rich conservative reactionary at home and abroad. Maybe people just do not like Scotland at all, even some Scots in Scotland. There’s even a nutter in Slovenia going CiF mental over Scotland.

      TGIFriday.

    51. ronnie anderson says:

      Rite who,s up next BRIAN RIX Much to do about Nothing

    52. ronnie anderson says:

      because that their contrabution

    53. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Moir and McTernan. Nice Together.

    54. ronnie anderson says:

      Oh help ma Boab the curse of the 13th must be on me.

    55. heedtracker says:

      Speaking through the Pope, then Severin Carrell in drag, God is voting No in Sept because “All division worries me.”
      Referring to independence movements in the Americas and the former Yugoslavia, he went on: “You have to study each case individually. Scotland, La Padania, Catalonia, I work in mysterious ways.

      If I get struck down tonight, it’ll be for my cheek although the way God works, I’ll probably win the euro lotto £1000 gazillion jackpot and I don’t even have a ticket.

      God says, Rule Britannia, Jesus is DK.

    56. crazycat says:

      @ Heedtracker

      Why is that person in Slovenia so obsessed? There just doesn’t seem to be a valid reason for her concern (someone on CiF referred to “she”; I don’t know if that’s any more than an assumption) but it’s poured out at vast length time after time after time. I can’t imagine it’s changed anyone’s mind.

    57. Thepnr says:

      I wonder why the journalist with over 21,000 complaints to the PCC over one of her pieces, a record for a single article, is complaining of “trolling” or internet abuse.

      Could it possibly be because of her views and opinions are out of kilter with the rest of society?

    58. heedtracker says:

      If BBC in Scotland tea time news has the Devil himself voting YES and being interviewed by old smirky Jacky Bird in her £500 million Pacific Quay box of vote no grot, I’ll take it. Every vote counts.

    59. Juteman says:

      Breaking news.
      The Labour MP, Oswald Mosely has declared for No. Seemingly JK has offered her hand in marriage!

    60. Thepnr says:

      @heedtracker

      Since when did Andy Murray come out for No? Must have passed me by.

    61. heedtracker says:

      @ crazycat, I wish I knew bud! Slovenia’s a perfectly happy PR democracy but the lunatic is absolutely determined to stop a similar democracy in our bonny Scotland. I quite miss winding her/him up though, and all the rest of the ukok slaverers, Niclas was the most fun but there are loads to choose from, like little ducks in a union jack painted barrel. Cant think I was blocked though:D

    62. JimnArlene says:

      I think it’s all diversionary, wind and pish, so the muggles keep their eyes off the prize; of Independence. There are no doubt, shite slingers, in both camps. However; we do not have the BBC etal on our side, so their shite, will seem to spread and stick more. I believe, they are losing and that is why, the shite slinging, the scraping of the barrels arse has become, or rather still is, the only thing they have. So to use an old but much rehashed saying; keep calm and carry on. We can, must and will win this.

    63. crazycat says:

      @ Heedtracker

      Ah! I’ve missed you over there 🙂

    64. heedtracker says:

      @ Thepnr, Murray said he didn’t like seeing the Saltire in the hands of Alex Salmond when he won Wimbledon last year. The rest of his story’s behind a Murdoch paywall that I aint never crossing but that’s more than enough, very sadly.

    65. heedtracker says:

      @ crazycat. Me too! But what can you do.

    66. orri says:

      Rowling getting involved is interesting when you examine the substance of Harry Potter. You might take it as the standard Lost Prince plot, and she has a couple of others who fit the bill, but at the end of the day it’s about the upper and middle classes and a fight between those who want to use their position to dominate the proles and those who just want to get on with it. In fact if you look at it being poor and from a large family seems to be Ron’s greatest flaw from Malfoy’s viewpoint at the start. It does have a certain appeal though and has a kind of resonance with the socialist leanings of scots, or at least those of us lived through the Thatcher years. Obviously when there’s such a resonance within potential YES voters to oppose the tories it comes as a bit of a insult to be accused of the very thing we oppose.

    67. Marcia says:

      Heedtracker

      Murray comments according to some were that he did not like all the negative press about the saltire and not as you have described it.

      —————-

      10 videos for you all to share with undecideds;

      https://thoughtsfromthekelvin.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/starter-for-10-the-campaign-for-scottish-independence/

    68. donald anderson says:

      In light of the media going over the top with so called ‘cybernats’ and all this online abuse. One has to ask the question, why is there no reporting of the abuse that can be found here ?

      https://twitter.com/BritNatAbuseBot

    69. Dal Riata says:

      Someone makes an unwise comment on Twitter and the Daily Record have their excuse to write up an ‘evil cybernat’ front page ‘expose’. Then the “Record Comment” gives us the likes of the following:

      “We are less than 100 days away from the referendum and still have no idea whatsoever how much independence would cost.

      Yet people who point this out – and our opinion poll says 77 per cent of voters want to know the answer – find themselves damned as somehow unpatriotic.

      Around the world, there has been ­widespread disgust about the vicious online insults hurled at JK Rowling since she revealed on Wednesday she has donated £1million to the Better Together campaign.

      It is easy to dismiss these faceless keyboard warriors as irrelevant eejits.”

      So they don’t know how much independence is going to cost and according to them and their polling, 77% of voters don’t either. Maybe if Westminster, Better Together No Thanks and the Daily Record, as part of the MSM, hadn’t colluded to ensure that the voters are kept as uninformed as possible about the positives of an independent Scotland, then some of those “costs” would be known.

      “Yet people who point this out […] find themselves damned as somehow unpatriotic.”

      Really? How about some examples of that spurious claim, Daily Record?

      “Around the world, there has been ­widespread disgust about the vicious online insults hurled at JK Rowling…”

      “Around the world”, eh. Is that right now? No hyperbole can be too over-the-top when attempting to smear Scottish independence supporters, isn’t that correct, Daily Record, “Scotland’s newspaper”?

      “It is easy to dismiss these faceless keyboard warriors as irrelevant eejits.”

      So you go apeshit with your smearing and name calling – “faceless keyboard warriors”, “irrelevant eejits” – and yet, say it is “easy to dismiss” those who wish to see Scotland independent…? You utterly, despicable hypocrites. Shame on you.

    70. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T – If you haven’t read Wee Ginger Dug today, you are missing something.

      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/not-caring/

      Please have a read.

      And a think.

      And maybe we need to do something.

    71. Proud Cybernat says:

      Okay Wingers–we now have less than 1,000 votes to take the lead. Proud Cybernat is off now to do the Glasgow Marathon (26 pints and 3 curries) and fully expects Wingers to have won this for us by the time I fall in the door tonight.

      Get voting. Come on (just click the Answer This button to place your vote).

      http://uk.isidewith.com/poll/420350795-scottish-independence-poll/443458700-scotland#pie

    72. Can someone help? How many gins do I need to imbibe before attempting to read this then?

      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/what-staying-in-the-united-kingdom-means-for-scotland/what-staying-in-the-united-kingdom-means-for-scotland

      For goodness sake – 17 pages for £750K – I am so in the wrong job!!

    73. Mary Bruce says:

      My own tuppenceworth regarding JK Rowling is that quite simply she can’t see past the Labour party.

      I am confident that she will change her mind once we are an independent social democracy and rUK has become a neo-liberal, privatised plc.

      Many people see this neo-liberal future for the rest of the UK and it frightens them. They somehow think that the only way to fight it is by Scotland staying in the Union. The Labour party is exploiting this fear and many people have fallen for it. Sadly it will only result in Scotland being taken down too.

    74. Dal Riata says:

      Oh, ho, ho, ho! Ha, ha, ha! ROFL!

      Just had a look at the Record’s online site and… according to them… the Pope says Scotland must vote No!

      “Pope Francis the latest world figure to enter the independence debate by voicing concerns over national division”

      Hilarious! Fantastic stuff!

      It can’t be true, can it? Ohhh yes it can!

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/pope-francis-latest-world-figure-3688381

    75. Martin says:

      Rowling is perfectly entitled to oppose independence and to give money to whoever she wants without being attacked. I don’t agree with her stance, but I have a lot of admiration for her moral stance on tax avoidance. If she genuinely believes we are better off under the oppressive rule of Westminster then so be it. If I had the chance I’d happily and politely discuss the issue.

      The above view (mine) is what I feel is “typical” of the WoS regulars. It is also the sort of thing we must promote amongst all yes people. We must assume that everything that can be misrepresented between now and September WILL be misrepresented. From the yes side comments anyway, BT fans will still retain full invisible troll powers.

    76. Cal says:

      O/T Sorry. First Stu, I think,and everyone I know thinks, you do an amazing job and you have our moral support. We think the way you are being portrayed by parts of the media is disgraceful.

      Update on my wife’s writings for the Chinese newspaper: in the end only a very small and part of what she wrote has been used. In fairness to the paper they produced a very factual and non opinionated piece. Which is good. However, at the end of the article they printed a few rather poorly informed opinions of members of the Chinese community. We have therefore decided to use the whole article my wife wrote to develop a flyer for informing Chinese Scots about our side of the argument. When it’s ready, I’ll post it here. Feel free to distribute it widely to any Chinese people where you live. Watch this space.

    77. HandandShrimp says:

      As I said elsewhere (maybe here…I lose track) JKR needs no advice on trolls. She has suffered from intrusion from the press paparazzi, she has had brick bats hurled at her by the more demanding Potter fans and she has been a hate figure for the more fundamentalist religious types.

      I doubt a few independence supporters expressing disappointment that she has sided with the BT lot has caused her undue worry.

      As ever, there is a lot of faux drama about a torrent of abuse but few if any actual examples of said abuse.

      It seems to me just being critical of No supporter statements counts as abuse these days. Indeed the No side seem to be desperately angling for situations where they can claim abuse has taken place. I would council people to be measured in their responses. Don’t give an inch on the argument but go lightly with the personal abuse.

    78. Martin says:

      Haha, the daily record. Managed to turn the most diplomatic and cautious statement on Catalan independence with non committal passing mention of Scotland into “pope backs better together.”

      The usual “clear from the text he said nothing of the sort” but the headline has done the job by then tactic

    79. muttley79 says:

      @Dal Riata

      The idea that many people around the world are paying attention to Scotland is laughable (the result will be covered extensively though). Iraq is rightly at the top of the headlines. Just shows what a comic the Daily Record is.

    80. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      if the pope says no, how many diehard unionist vote no rangers fans heads will explode?

    81. JamesS says:

      No doubt the publicity this site has received will have attracted new readers. Is it wise to produce articles about individuals right now, even if their hypocrisy is obvious?

      A yes vote is all that matters. Taking on the bottom-dwellers in the media is no doubt a huge temptation right now for totally justifiable reasons but it’s distracting this site from what it is really good at. Exactly what the no camp want.

    82. HandandShrimp says:

      Martin

      That is exactly my point. The Pope said nothing of the sort but by posting headlines like that they are hoping that people will say intemperate things about the Pope causing more division and animosity.

      I suggest a different tack. Perhaps someone could write to the Pope’s office pointing out the blatant co-opting of the Pope into a political campaign.

    83. geeo says:

      Pope says vote No…..!!!

      Go yersel pope guy, massive upsurge in Yes from an unlikely source coming soon then !!!

    84. eddiefaeglesga says:

      Just read article Edinburgh news…geezzzz what a lot of garbage

    85. Anne says:

      I agree with JamesS. While it is right and proper to call certain people to account, Alistair Darling being a prime example, I do worry that too much emphasis on journalists and minor politicians is a distraction and likely to annoy haverers who venture in this direction. And I suspect that female haverers in particular will be put off. Westminster can keep the playground politics. The arguments are resoundingly on the yes side and need to be emphasized again and again.

    86. Fergus Green says:

      Disgusting comment by Shirley Williams on Scotland’s ‘Balkanised’ future:

      http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/former-pm-gordon-brown-presents-better-together-case-in-st-andrews-1.421100

      Article open for comments.

    87. Get real people. We are falling into the No campaign’s trap. Since all their ludicrous scare stories have been, rightly, ridiculed, their policies are jam tomorrow, maybe, the only thing they can do is to try to divert us from our one and only objective, independence. Don’t play the media’s game. They are just trying to provoke us into a response. Please don’t fall for it. We are winning, and if we don’t allow ourselves to be distracted, it’s in the bag.

    88. Schrodingers Cat says:

      heedtracker says:
      God says, Rule Britannia, Jesus is DK.

      lol

      btw, i also got banned from cif……..5 times now

      snigger, got nine lives remember
      let me know if you want reinstated heed
      🙂

    89. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Pope says vote No…..!!!

      Go yersel pope guy, massive upsurge in Yes from an unlikely source coming soon then !!!

      lol
      or shouldthat be the loo

      🙂

    90. Justin Ross says:

      Mary Bruce

      Sadly too many people in Scotland can’t see past the Labour Party and take off the blinkers and judge them and theirs on their record and actions. Monkey see, monkey do. (hope I haven’t subjected our simian cousins to vile online cybernet abuse with that phrase)

    91. scottish_skier says:

      OT but thing I’ve found that strikes a cord with soft No / DK is based on what Jim Sillars was on about.

      Are they prepared to vote to give away Scotland’s independence?

      You see Scotland will be ‘independent’ on the 18th of September between the hours of 7 am and 10 am.

      For those 15 hours, its people alone will have a say on Scotland’s future governance; the very essence of independence / national sovereignty.

      As people walk to polling booths they will walk through an independent Scotland.

      They must choose whether to vote Yes to keep that independence, or No to give it away again.

    92. Robert Kerr says:

      Anne.

      Please do not call them “haverers”. WRONG!

      Perhaps you meant “waverers”,

      We know what you mean all the same.

      Off out now for non-alcoholic libation.

    93. Grouse Beater says:

      A very amusing letter to JK Rowling:

      “Dear JK Rowling,

      Your books are completely unrealistic; an orange topped kid who has friends? Eh? You’re kidding.
      Yours sincerely

    94. Anne says:

      Happy to use waverer instead, but really my main point is that we all want the people on the fence, many of whom are women, to feel confident enough that they are in good company and join the yes side

      Off topic I was greatly amused to see a George Bush spokeswoman – reported on the BBC website- , commenting on Hillary Clinton’s words, refer to the important job that RAF Leuchars has been doing in protecting us against Russian aircraft. Clearly unaware that the Westminster government has decided that the same RAF Leuchars is surplus to requirement

    95. Brian Powell says:

      It’s a pity we couldn’t also get John Pilger to report on the Referendum. I was just listening to him on RT. A real reporter making our newspaper reporters look like zombies on tranquillisers.

    96. Croompenstein says:

      At work today this guy noticed my yes wristband and said that’s the first time he’s seen anyone supporting yes, I said Really? I went on to explain why I was voting yes. He listened and then said oh well you won’t get it anyway. I said we just need 50% +1 and we are nearly there, he said you’re not listening you won’t get it anyway. It was a bit sinister so I just said oh well I’ll still be voting yes.

    97. BuckieBraes says:

      I am hoping we can move on soon. All this ‘Rowlinggate’ and ‘Lallygate’ stuff is generating more heat than light, and isn’t contributing much to our cause. Even if it’s all true – and despite the media’s best efforts to blow it out of proportion – most people in this country couldn’t give two hoots about ‘cybernats’ and ‘online abuse’.

      Back in the real world, I was talking today to somebody who is waiting to be convinced to vote Yes, if he can be provided with simple proof of the viability of Scotland’s economy.

      What I am looking for is an easy-to-understand graphic that depicts the potential balance-sheet of an independent Scotland, showing the anticipated expenditure against the revenue generated by the various sectors – oil, fisheries, agriculture, manufacturing, tourism, food and drink and so on.

      Where can I find such an item? It could ensure another Yes vote is in the bag: which is far more important than to whom Clare Lally is or isn’t related.

    98. galamcennalath says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews says:
      O/T – If you haven’t read Wee Ginger Dug today, you are missing something.
      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/not-caring/
      Please have a read.
      And a think.
      And maybe we need to do something.

      YES, READ THIS

    99. Cindie says:

      @BuckieBraes Business for Scotland have lots of information, including graphics. They are linked above and this is their FB page: https://www.facebook.com/BusinessforScotland?fref=ts which will probably have something you can use

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      Croompenstein reported: he said you’re not listening you won’t get it anyway. It was a bit sinister

      I think he meant one of two things: we won’t get our fair share of the UK’s wealth, (or debt – fine by me) or, dear Westminster will just scoff and carry on as before, backed by the House of Lords. A group in the Lords has already said as much, insofar as stating if the vote doesn’t suit the UK’s interests it can be delayed … indefinitely.

      If they took the second route, all hell will break loose.

    101. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews says:
      13 June, 2014 at 6:38 pmO/T – If you haven’t read Wee Ginger Dug today, you are missing something.

      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/not-caring/

      Please have a read.

      And a think.

      And maybe we need to do something

      most definately calgacus, heart wrenching stuff
      could we crowd fund some caring support to enable wgd to go to some of the meetings and give a talk? sounds like one evening out would be a real treat for wgd

    102. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Martin
      Good to see some mention of the Weirs and the BBC bias demo at last.
      I have made formal complaints to the BBC Trust 03700103100 on the non reporting of both issues.
      A small step.
      I wonder what will happen at the next protest on the 29th?

      I have also got a response back from the BBC Trust to an FOI asking how many complaints they have received on bias against the Yes campaign over the last year.

      They could not divulge this as it would compromise their impartiality ?
      Just brilliant !

      Doesn’t ‘t stop me complaining though – I will be phoning them regularly right up to the 18th September. It is faster than both the internet forms and the BBC complaints phone line.

    103. @Anne

      The jets have already started leaving – I am in the flight path.

    104. Cindie says:

      @Schrodingers Cat, @Calgacus MacAndrews I read WGD’s blog today too, very moving. I’d be up for what some crowd funding support too.

    105. balaaargh says:

      Sorry, don’t know if someone else posted it but there’s an article about Obama on the courier site:

      http://www.thecourier.co.uk/opinion/columnists/jen-dempsie/mr-president-yes-we-can-and-yes-we-should-1.417569

    106. EdinScot says:

      I recall the absolute furore Jan Moir caused with her inane rantings over the death of Stephen Gately. It really is the case that people in glass houses shouldnt be throwing stones. Doesnt seem she learns from her mistakes and irony really does become her.

      I see that Susan Dalgety tweeted an apology earlier regarding confusing a member of the public with being the Rev Stu and falsely claiming that he had called her vile. That accounts for her refusing to give the email to Wings over Scotland then.

    107. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings – I have a good excuse for not being out now doing my bit as I will be setting up the Yes gazebo tomorrow morning from 7:30 at the Angus Show, talk to folk my friends – they need to hear – every day engage with someone, please make our country a normal subject to talk about.

    108. IcySpark says:

      @BuckieBraes

      Get him to watch this video from Business for Scotland. It will surely move them to Yes as it’s all based on GERS figures and presented brilliantly by Ivan McKee.

      In fact, everyone should show this to as many people as possible.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W8cKHcZn60

    109. TJenny says:

      Schrodinger’s Cat – (why no apostrophe in your name, you rebel?)

      I’ve met Wee Ginger Dug at CH 1+2 – he is truly a wee gem. Not sure if he’s intending coming to the Edinburgh gig on the 4th July, where we could just individually give him money in unmarked envelopes to ease his lifestyle – I for one wold be up for that – but if the Rev or someone wants to start up an Indiego site for contributions to buying his lovely house in Spain (we could have it as a WOS retreat, and let the Rev chill oot after the YES vote, and for general WOS parties) then I’d gladly contribute.

    110. Paula Rose says:

      @TJenny – yo lets crowd fund a wee retreat in Spain!

    111. bunter says:

      If you read the Popes statement carefully, I think you will find that he leans to YES more than you would think!

    112. TJenny says:

      Paula Rose – well that’s all, erm, 2 of us – anyone else up for it?

    113. TJenny says:

      Paula Rose – and we can call oor wee hacienda ‘Wings Over Spain’ and it’ll still be WOS. 🙂

    114. ronnie anderson says:

      Ur yous two fur real T Jenny, P Rose, we would need tae buy

      a toon tae accomidate everybody.

    115. Free at 63! says:

      @Bunter.

      If any of you have read what Pope Francis has said about greed and corruption in government and how he leads his very simple life then you would know that he does more than lean to a ‘Yes’ vote.

      The biggest ‘Yes’ vote in Scotland from faith groups comes from Catholics because we know that social justice is paramount.

    116. A wee hoose in Spain would be lovely – but can we not arrange to get a bed sorted and delivered to Paul this weekend? Its not on that he is having to sleep on the sofa.

      Everything is always better after a good nights sleep and I fear its been a long time since he has had one of them.

      It’s a “wee thing” but it would make the world of difference.

    117. Eric D says:

      It’s shocking just how short the collective memories of the MSM is (I’m being sarcastic should any BT moles be watching on behalf of the DM and Express).

      Suddenly odious creatures like Moir, McTernan, and other disgraced hacks/spinners are the ‘voice of reason’.

      We’re starting to see nasty references to things Stu allegedly said about 9/11, Hillsborough, and ‘old soldiers’. Seems the source of these smears and slurs is a really vicious and hate-peddling site called ‘AhDinnaeKen’, with most of the subsequent ‘comments’ coming from ‘Longshanker’ (that sounds familiar).

      Some of the stuff there – actually calling all Yes supporters ‘nazis’, with Wings being a Scottish/SNP version of ‘Stormfront’, is a million times worse than anything I’ve seen on BellaC (yes – they get the ADK ‘treatment, NNS (another ‘nazi’ front), in fact any site that supports Scottish independence !!

      They go to town on Joan McAlpine – who they call ‘Moan McVulpine’, and get ‘creative’ with Tasimia Ahmed Sheik – or as they call her ‘Tasimina Ahmed Rattle’n’Roll’.
      Misogyny ? Islamaphobia ? Both ??

      Can you imagine the media frenzy if NNS or another site had done something similar to Margaret Curran or Kezia Dugdale ?

      I don’t know who’s behind that site, but they seem to be capable of spreading the shocking lies, smears, slurs, and disgusting allegations very effectively.

      Makes me wonder if it’s based in a back-office somewhere in Whitehall !
      I’d keep an eye on that crowd Stu – they’re definitely coming for you (which means all of us).

      I think we should all get calm, have a drink, and note down some of the vile stuff on that site, and the next time BT produces another ‘I was offended ! I am not … whatever !’ – produce some REAL nastiness, and ask Darling&Co – or even McTernan to comment.

    118. Paula Rose says:

      @ Free at 63! as a confirmed atheist I say let the good times roll, we can all dance in the streets xx

    119. Liquid Lenny says:

      Schrodingers Cat

      Im up for the crowdfunding for wgd.

    120. Paula Rose says:

      @ Elaine Colliar – but we’d better ask Paul first, where would he park the TV crew? After all he is another cybernat.

    121. TJenny says:

      ronnie anderson – only if we’re all there at the same time – and what a party that would be :-), and at ‘out of season’ times there would be the opporchancity for those of us who no longer have to work for the man, to chill and/or party.

    122. bunter says:

      Anyone think now that Iraq has imploded, that Broon will keep a lower profile? If anyone goes to one of his scare and smearfest meetings, mind and raise the subject, lest folk forget!

    123. Paula Rose says:

      Oops – we’re all off topic and creating a vision, so how do we do this? Stuff politics for the weekend, let’s buy our heroes a place to chill out in.

    124. TJenny says:

      Paul Rose – ALL over to Off Topic now, please! 🙂

    125. Paula Rose says:

      I’ve had enough of this MSM stuff – let’s get the vision thang dollies!

    126. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ Paula Rose – How does an atheist get confirmed? Just a thought went through mah heid of massed dancing….sort of Brazilian style? 🙂 I mean the dancing that is.

    127. Paula Rose says:

      @ TJenny – yes boss xx

    128. Croompenstein says:

      @bunter – lest folk forget!

      a bleak monument to the power and cunning of the British state

      https://archive.today/EdxHX

    129. @Paula Rose

      But he is OOR Cybernat and we love the wee lamb!!

      I think one of the things Mr Sillars missed today is that women like me are not “invisible” or “unengaged” in this whole debate … but we can’t do the pub meets or the town hall debates because we are busy putting kids to bed and caring for elderly neighbours.

      Online is where we can contribute, where we can connect – where we feel heard and we can feel useful. To deny us the right to chip in online would be to alienate us from the process. I know so many other Mums who have rediscovered our political hopes because of the internet. Politics have changed as we now control the means of communication online – I doubt it will ever be the same again.

    130. TJenny says:

      Paula Rose – why is it only you that’s listening? xxs

    131. Fairliered says:

      Schrodingers Cat.

      I have posted this on Wee Ginger Dug’s site.

      “If your friends here and on Wings were to directly fund a carer, would that affect your carer’s allowance? If not, you have many friends and admirers and I am sure something suitable could be sorted out.”

      There must be some Wingers that can help – and many more Wingers that can fund the carer.

      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/not-caring/

    132. bunter says:

      @ Croompenstein

      Cheers for that. Robin Cook died up a mountain, was it round about the same time? Natural causes of course, then there is the case of the SNP guy who shot himself in the head by a gun found a good few metres away.

      I am not a conspiracy theorist at all LOL

    133. cynicalHighlander says:

      The Tooth fairy is an undecided will it be an aye tooth or a molar!

    134. Achnababan says:

      Did the online survey (Isidewith).

      Was interesting – on issues came out agreeing with SNP 97% and Green 95% which is about right 🙂

      But cannae work out how they ken I am from Scotland when working out the breakdown in support for Independence?

      Sorry for being a bit dull, but maybe the result showing NO ahead is simply some kind of artefact of how this breakdown was calculated (wrongly?)

    135. mr thms says:

      Breathtaking

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27830193

      “Scottish independence: Rival Scots industry visions set out”

    136. JGedd says:

      @ TJenny

      Crowdfunding for practical help for Wee Ginger Dug seems a good idea to me. I don’t know how he keeps going and I’m sure lots of people would like to help.

    137. Gfaetheblock says:

      If the aim of the no campaign was to get both sides to descend into a tit for tat negative fight, then they have succeeded if the time of the last few posts on this site are a measure.

      In my view this will harden the core vote, but make it hard for either side to attract new supporters. This equates to a no win.

    138. crazycat says:

      @Achnababan

      When I did the survey it told me a couple of times that my vote had been counted and what did I want to do next, when I hadn’t indicated my opinion. Eventually it did register a vote properly, but I have no idea if the previous ones were counted somehow.

    139. Nana Smith says:

      @Elaine Colliar

      I think a bed should be the first step for Paul. It would be great for him to be able to rest properly at night considering he has so much to get through each day.

    140. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Fairliered
      i was wondering how it would effect his carers allowance.

    141. K1 says:

      O/T This petition is gaining momentum… approx. between 600 and 800 signatures in the last 24 hours as far as I can tell. Spread far and wide wingers 🙂

      For anyone who hasn’t signed:

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button

    142. Paula Rose says:

      Why are you all here instead of on off-topic?

    143. Cindie says:

      I couldn’t post on WGD, it wouldn’t let me for some reason. But, if you are reading this Paul, I love your blog, it often makes my day. Your post today was moving and funny and ultimately uplifting. If we can somehow fund you some support so that you can get out a little bit and attend some yes events then I’ll definitely be contributing.

      Thank you x

    144. Paula Rose says:

      For all of you who want to support the wee ginger dug – go here http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/

    145. Jim Thomson says:

      @achnababan & @crazycat

      there are a couple of technical ways they a) can “guesstimate” where you are and b) know if you’ve voted already.

      a) if you have a wireless router, through which you connect to that interweb thingy, those nice people at Goggle when they came round all our streets in their camera car(s) also clooected wireless access point data that was directly linked to your geographical location. Your router has an electronic ID called a MAC address, that is one way of trying to be precise with location info.

      The downside, is that the data becomes stale quite quickly as people upgrade/replace routers and/or move house. On top of the specific MAC address they will also be able to extract your IP address. Again, that can become stale if you don’t leave your router on all the time because, unless you specifically pay your ISP for a fixed IP address your one will be dynamically allocated so there’s no guarantee that you’ll have it from one week to the next. Statistically though they are probably about 70% or so accurate over a period of around two or three years until the car(s) come back again 😉

      The b) part is simply down to you having a cookie planted on your PC by the voting website so they can limit the opportunity for flooding the vote from a particular PC. You should be able to place more votes by using another PC/laptop/smartphone from the same internet connection because they will their own cookies.

      Alternatively, you can set, in your browser, the type of cookie you are willing to accept. Normally it’s helpful (to you as a user) to only allow “session” cookies which should evaporate when you shut down your browser and PC. You can also use a pretty brutal method whereby you go into your browser settings and delete ALL cookies if you want to have another go at voting. That’s a bit of a nuisance though if you regularly use websites where you rely on them knowing about you.

      You can also try running multiple browser sessions of different browsers (Chrome, Firefox, IE etc.)

      Not that I’d ever advocate doing any of that to spoof a voting trend. Just knowledge that other people already use.

    146. ronnie anderson says:

      @TJenny, see but you,s will be ower there in ah’l be here

      ah kin only Fly in WOS, nae AiryPlanes bring me a stock of

      rock back Lol.

    147. Jim Thomson says:

      clooected – really? jings, must be late – COLLECTED

    148. David Briggs says:

      ……….and ‘Brittanica’ for the other lot.

      Coincidence?

    149. orri says:

      Re-Rowling.

      If muggles are the ordinary people and the wizards are the politicians and so on how about a chant of,

      “I’m a muggle no a mug”

    150. crazycat says:

      @ Jim Thomson

      Thanks for the information. I don’t have a wireless router. What puzzled me was that I was moving from tab to tab but not voting, but they sent messages that I had voted – I wondered whether they were automatically added to No, because I’m a fully paid-up cynic!

    151. TJenny says:

      ronnie anderson – Darling man, I don’t envisage I’ll take up the opportunity to occupy Wee Ginger Dug’s Hoose (or, as it may be called, the WOS Nest), but I fully support our right to buy it for both the good of WGD + partner, and any and all WOSers who would like to holiday there.

      This is not all about me – like indy itself, it’s all about us. 🙂

    152. Jim Thomson says:

      @crazycat You know, I suspected that Google had a monster database of internet cynics. They probably sell the data to pollsters 😉

    153. Chic McGregor says:

      Well done Rev, one of the worst examples of hypocrisy/projection I have ever seen. Well worth bringing to attention if only as a Guinness book of record’s contender.

    154. crazycat says:

      That wouldn’t surprise me, Jim 🙂

    155. Thepnr says:

      Oh dear, it’s been a really long week and I’m feeling a bit drained emotionally and lethargic. Thirteen more of them to go, can I make it?

      Yes I can!

      Now that we’re at the tickly bit we cannot shirk, get the bit between the teeth and keep going forward. Lets show “our masters” who the power lies with. Us not them.

    156. goldenayr says:

      Three cheers for WoS.

      I’ve not seen the labour press bullies so agitated since Leveson.

      They’re flinging muck at us from every quarter..and failing miserably.

      It’s a hoot watching them crash and burn for the cost of a simple sentence dismantling their rants.

      I’m having a ball being utterly civil and polite..me!

      Who’d a thunk it?

    157. Croompenstein says:

      Stu, didn’t catch if you were on the Queens Birthday Honours List 😀

    158. ronnie anderson says:

      Their sending in the SAS to Iraq, the II round of the war.

    159. Lesley-Anne says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      Their sending in the SAS to Iraq, the II round of the war.

      So much for Hague and his *ahem* we’re not sending troops back into Iraq then. MUPPET!

    160. Appleby says:

      Scotland desperately needs a Scottish free press. This current gang of bandits and fibbers suckling on the same unionist teat do us no good.

    161. Andrew Morton says:

      Come on Rev. We want a rousing crowd funding appeal for the Wee a Ginger Dug. When do we want it? Tomorrow will do, you need a good night’s sleep.

    162. Bruce says:

      Ooft! Laser-sight concision by Wings right there. As ever.

    163. TJenny says:

      Andrew Morton – right on! Don’t know how to set up a crowdfund or would have done it by now – anyone? How can we do his?

    164. Rory says:

      That article she wrote on Stepehen Gately was truly horrible. Just who would write that, so tactless and offensive.

      Her apology was even worse, compounding insult on insult in a bid to clarify, clear the air and aplogise! I don’t think i’ve ever read anything so vile, misjudged and wholly uncompassionate.

    165. Nana Smith says:

      http://landing.indiegogo.com/iggfieldguide/

      They do take a cut of the donations,not sure how much.

    166. Derek M says:

      im so mad just now but i will keep it civil i just heard on STV that it would now appear according to them that the FM already has the power to re-industrialize Scotland and that there is no need for independence to deliver this policy are they for real!

    167. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oops I have an apology to make it wasn’t Hague but Cameron who said they would not send troops back into Iraq.

      http://tinyurl.com/q8lzbff

      Meanwhile the Telegraph is reporting that SAS may very well be sent in.

      http://tinyurl.com/pwqpz5f

      So peeps. Tonight’s multi million dollar question is this:

      “When do boots on the ground NOT constitute boots on the ground?”

    168. Ken500 says:

      Losers

    169. HandandShrimp says:

      Lesley Anne

      Due to cut backs there will be no boots supplied so technically they cam send men in and there will be no boots on the ground.

    170. goldenayr says:

      I see the Scotsmans now removed the Peterkin/McColm lying article.

    171. Flower of Scotland says:

      O/t Had a very interesting evening in my local in N E Fife. Usually politics are banned on a fri, so we all get along happily although everyone knows my politics because I’m the only house and car in the village who have YES , YOU YES YET posters in the window! However this wee Scots wummin , but lives in England, wouldn’t be told. Of course they pointed at me! All my fault and behold mine host produced books and they all told me how dreadfull nationalism is , even Hitler was mentioned! When talking about Alex Salmond! Until eventually under pressure I said that if they cut Scotland off and pushed her out into the sea, I would still vote yes!! It all ended up with a group hug and we are fine, but all you folks that advocate discussing with friends and family, it’s not always easy! Sometimes stressful! However I stuck to my guns although felt like greetin some of the time!!

    172. Sinky says:

      Craig Murray on the ball as usual

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

      and Derek Bateman

      http://derekbateman.co.uk/

      Don’t get side tracked by MSM /BBC / Labour’s agenda

    173. Lesley-Anne says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      Lesley Anne

      Due to cut backs there will be no boots supplied so technically they cam send men in and there will be no boots on the ground.

      Aye but I hear these SAS types are really REALLY hard types so they don’t need to use boots so I guess my question was a non starter really. Technically, I guess, I should have asked “when is FEET on the ground not really FEET on the ground?” 😛

    174. caz-m says:

      McTernan just interviewed on BBC 2 Newsnight, telling us that we should send the British troops back into Iraq immediately.

      Should be big news over the weekend. I wonder if Murphy, Lamont and company all agree with him, we need to know these things.

      This uprising in Iraq really could focus the minds of the undecided voter.

      Not in my name.

    175. Nana Smith says:

      @goldenayr

      I believe tomorrows Scotsman will be a good read for Yessers.

      Better together cinema ad was filmed at pacific quay.

    176. Thepnr says:

      @Flower of Scotland

      It’s always stressful by yourself, well done though for fighting your corner. People tend to stick with the group view, this is why everybody has to be visible.

      We are a big group, just a bit shy about saying so.

    177. TJenny says:

      Flower of Scotland – I think I saw you post that you would be coming along to the 4th July indy WOS night in Edin on 4th July, Yes? We’ll all give you a group hug then to fortify you with the strength to go forth and conquer. Until then, when you get to the end of your tether, tie it in a knot, and hang on with your teeth. 🙂

      (signed TJ – the daughter of a Margt Thatcher loving reactionary (suppose that really goes without saying) Tory mother. :-()

    178. Lesley-Anne says:

      Nana Smith says:

      @goldenayr

      I believe tomorrows Scotsman will be a good read for Yessers.

      Better together cinema ad was filmed at pacific quay.

      I so want to say that I’m shocked and surprised at this but then again we are talking about Better together and the UKIP (spit) Channel, sorry BBC, who we all know are kept in the back pocket of Better Together.

    179. Onwards says:

      @Flower of Scotland

      If any conversation descends to the ‘nasty nationalism and nazis’ level, then I just mention that independence is good enough for every other country in the world.

      It is NORMAL for a country to govern itself – not something extreme !!

    180. Sinky says:

      On Iraq, remind Labour voters and their spin doctors that Scotland’s share of the costs of the illegal Iraq war, even on the Westminster government’s blatant under-estimate came to two billion pounds.

      Now we know that intervention ended up well as we supplied canon fodder for the US and supine UK actions which stirred up resentment throughout the Islamic world.

      So Scotland can afford criminal invasions killing hundreds of thousands to ‘bring freedom’, but cannot afford the smaller cost of its own freedom!

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lesley-Anne et al –

      No boots ‘on the ground’ right enough, because they’ll grab the chance to use up their stockpiles of bombs.

      If you haven’t seen ‘The Fog of War’, a feature-length Robert McNamara valedictory, please check out this clip, and have a look at the man’s face at 3.20.

      If we live long enough, some of us may see Blair, Brown, Straw, Hoon, Reid, Ingram and all the rest of them giving similar testimony, albeit involuntary. It’s unlikely. What’s certain is that millions of civilians will be slaughtered in decades to come, just as they have been for the past sixty years.

      It’s just ‘business’.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCYcgOnWUM

    182. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well what do you know Sky papers talking about the Pope and him, allegedly saying, Scotland should stay in the union. ARGHHH!

    183. Big Jock says:

      Why doesn’t the pope do something useful like call for a UN observer in this so called democracy of ours.So we have had Bowie,Obama,Clinton and now the pope.Is there anyone who doesn’t have a detached misinformed opinion on Scotland.Surely we need to hear from the Krankies now!

    184. Proud Cybernat says:

      Just to give it another wee bump.

      YES are now only a couple of hundred short of taking the lead. This poll has been running since early March.

      If you haven’t cast your vote, please do so:

      http://uk.isidewith.com/poll/420350795-scottish-independence-poll/443458700-scotland

    185. Ken500 says:

      BBC production. The Ad was pulled. Who paid for it. The Scottish taxpayers? BT campaigning against the public interest. Yesterday’s men.

    186. IcySpark says:

      Better Together film made in BBC studio.

      Scotsman fron page tomorrow

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqCx09sCYAAPFCw.jpg:large

    187. Big Jock says:

      The pope declaration of Arbroath..irony anyone.Clinton ,Obama 4th of July…..

    188. Ken500 says:

      The Pope was neutral.

    189. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve found the piece the two idiots on Sky papers were *ahem* discussing.

      http://tinyurl.com/mrndkct

    190. Hood says:

      Thepnr says

      “We are a big group, just a bit shy about saying so.”

      I am doing my best in Arbroath 😉
      http://i.cubeupload.com/bDLaXY.jpg

      Just made it today and already had half a dozen people ask what its about 🙂

    191. Flower of Scotland says:

      @onwards. Honestly I did say that, but I’m afraid , if there were any yessers there, they didn’t back me up! It’s a lib dem/ conservative community! Who cares! When I get my YES saltire and fly it in my garden!!!!!!

      @t jenny look forward to meeting some yessers! It will be a huge change for me!

      @Thepnr. Look forward to seeing you all in Edinburgh!

    192. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hood says:

      Thepnr says

      “We are a big group, just a bit shy about saying so.”

      I am doing my best in Arbroath 😉
      http://i.cubeupload.com/bDLaXY.jpg

      Just made it today and already had half a dozen people ask what its about 🙂

      WOW!

      I just mean WOW!

      Isn’t that just AWESOME! 😛

    193. HandandShrimp says:

      How on earth can Better Together have used the BBC studios to make their ads?

    194. Lesley-Anne says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      How on earth can Better Together have used the BBC studios to make their ads?

      Questions for the head of BBC and BBC Scotland methinks, not that they’ll give an answer mind you.

    195. Thepnr says:

      @Hood

      That is simply awesome, are you a plater or a blacksmith. I want one of them for my front door. Dofs cap.

    196. caz-m says:

      Daily Record trying to draw the Pope into the debate on Scottish Independence.

      Next they’ll have him marchin down the road with the Orange Order, screaming “Vote No, Save The Union”.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/pope-francis-latest-world-figure-3688381#comments

    197. Bob W says:

      @Hood

      Hand made or laser cut?

    198. TJenny says:

      Hood – can you make me one of these WOS signs, in brass, for my front door? Let me know how much and can pay you at the WOS Edin 4th gig, if you’ll be there?

    199. Lesley-Anne says:

      @Hood

      I’m thinking you might have just started something there with your wee WOS emblem. 😛

    200. Hood says:

      Thepnr
      I work mainly fixing fishing boats, milling/turning/welding etc
      Stuart kindly gave me a .bmp image and I managed to covert it to a 3D model and then used CAM to produce G Code for my CNC Mill.
      It takes quite a while to machine but I will make one for your Seafest stall if you want, you can then hang it on your door after 😀

    201. Thepnr says:

      @Hood

      You made me laugh, I’d love one. See you at the Seafest.

    202. TJenny says:

      Hood – I have no understanding of what you just described, but, if you make them, we will buy them. 🙂

    203. Sinky says:

      Yes its true the BBC helped the Better Together campaign to produce their cinema adverts.

      Is that why they gave extensive free publicity to the London based No Borders outfit who paid for it?

      BBC “bought and sold for English gold”

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/the-better-together-advert-made-in-bbc-studios-1-3444021

    204. Hood says:

      Bob W
      I did it on a CNC mill, laser, plasma or waterjet would be much quicker but sadly not got the room to build one of these for myself 😀

      TJenny
      I will see if I can get my hands on some brass (dont use it much) but no promises and afraid I wont be at Edinburgh, crowds are not good for me I am afraid, get claustrophobic 🙁
      Just a word of warning though, its quite big, 416mm (16.5inch approx) wingspan, so maybe too big for a door.

    205. Bob W says:

      @Hood

      When I was teaching, we had a cnc lathe, but I always lusted after a table top mill or laser cutter, more versatile, but not enough money in the budget.

    206. Hood says:

      TJenny,
      afraid I couldnt make them in any quantity as it just takes too long to do on the type of machine I have.
      If anyone has access to a plasma or waterjet or laser then I can pass on a dxf file for them to produce the code.

    207. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just had a wee thought about the UKIP (spit) Channel sorry BBC studios being used to make the Better Together adverts. As a result of this information now being in the public domain shouldn’t the BBC now be required to register as a supporter of the NO campaign?

    208. Bob W says:

      @Hood

      Could you not scale the 3D model, to produce a door sized plaque? (50%)

    209. Bob W says:

      @Hood

      Forgot to add, reducing path size and time for production.

    210. TJenny says:

      Hood – no worries, no pressure. I’m sure if there’s someone out there willing to provide them, we’ll buy, but dinnae fash yersel that we’re putting any pressure on you. (ps my doors are 30+” wingspan, so 16.5” would be a nice balance, no?)

    211. TJenny says:

      Hood – btw, if you think 16.5” is a normal door width, I name you Mick Jagger and claim my £10! 🙂

    212. Famous15 says:

      O/T just completed a you gov poll.it asked THE question and also a question on whether the JKRowley abuse (sic) would make me more or less likely to vote yes or no.

    213. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev –

      If you get a spare minute, could you please enquire about using Pacific Quay to shoot the first WOS ad?

    214. Hood says:

      Better make this the last post or I will be getting strung up for going so way off topic.

      Bob W
      I dont have much money myself but I have bought old broken CNC machines that were heading for the scrap and put new controls on them. The one I did this on probably cost me about £2500 in total, heres it doing its first job.
      Bob W

      I dont have much money myself but I have bought old CNC machines that were going for scrap and brought them back to life, I suppose I spent about £2500 in total on this one.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS9mh_iMing

      I could easily scale it but the problem would be the cutter size, I had to use a 2mm dia to get any detail on this so going smaller would mean sub 1mm dia cutter and thus a lot lot slower feedrate or plenty of snapped cutters 🙁

      T Jenny

      I will see if I can scrounge some brass plate.

      I do have a friend that works in a place that has a waterjet but he is not the operator and I am not sure if his boss would allow it to be done but I will ask.

    215. TJenny says:

      Famous 15 – they just really, really don’t get it do they? Like a multi- millionairess living in the Grange/Merchiston area is so gonna resonate wi the ordinary women in the street, – NOT. Love Harry Potter – his creator, not so much and, like me, she only has one vote! Let’s just ignore and move on.

    216. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev –

      If you get a spare minute, could you please enquire about using Pacific Quay to shoot the first WOS ad?

      WOW!

      What a great idea Ian. That would the UKIP (spit) Channel, sorry BBC, in a real fix and no mistake.

      Option 1) They agree to allow WOS to make an advert and end up getting non stop phone calls from Blair McDougall, who by all accounts seems to be a wee bit worse for wear reading some recent tweets :P.

      Option 2) They refuse to allow WOS to make an advert and all hell breaks loose. Non stop protests, mass burnings of TV tax licence, mass avoidance of BBC programmes etc.

      I think this request would seriously put them in a situation where they were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t! 😉

    217. manandboy says:

      Reuters offers this quote of what the Pope actually said.

      “There are cases that will be fair
      and cases that won’t be fair,
      but the secession of a nation
      without a history of forced unity
      must be handled very carefully
      and analysed case-by-case,” he said,
      without specifically saying
      what he thought should be done
      in Spain, Britain and northern Italy.

      http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/uk-pope-independence-scotland-catalonia-idUKKBN0EO29020140613

      ” a history of forced unity ” now there’s a phrase to start a debate about the relationship between Scotland & England.

    218. TJenny says:

      Lesley-Anne – re Ian’s wonderfully wild but feasible ad idea, PQ would be easily far more damned if they don’t! 🙂

      Hopefully Stuey will read the comments on this thread and give us his view on the PQ WOS ad.

    219. Adrian B says:

      BBC Production facilities:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/scotland/productionfacilities/

      At BBC Scotland’s headquarters in Glasgow, we offer a full range of HD studio and post production facilities and production support areas tailored to your programme requirements.

      Our studios and post teams have a wealth of experience working across a full range of network and local productions.

      We work with BBC clients as well as many independent production companies, and we offer a flexible, client-focused approach to help deliver your programme needs.

    220. Mary Bruce says:

      Famous15, that will have been a poll commissioned by BT then, nae doubt. They will be desperate for a headline for a press release that screams “Cybernat abuse setback for yes campaign.” Coming to a newspaper near you sometime next week.

    221. K1 says:

      Archived copies of Popegate and BetterBBCTogetherAD…

      Less Footfall = Less Advertisng = Less Revenue = Online People Power in Action 🙂

      https://archive.today/5MHrk

      https://archive.today/4fiCs

    222. Adrian B says:

      @ Famous15,

      O/T just completed a you gov poll.it asked THE question and also a question on whether the JKRowley abuse (sic) would make me more or less likely to vote yes or no.

      If polling indicates a positive answer then expect further trolling like the BBC & Better Together / Pope / Obama/Hillary Clinton stories.

      We are being trolled via the press by Downing Street and the British establishment. They are looking for hotheads to get angry and do something stupid.

      A few hotheads on twitter will not help either. Keep calm and be positive. If you feel your blood pressure rising then take a break – your health is important. We are going to win this

    223. Adrian B says:

      @ Mary Bruce,

      I think that Jim Sillars called it perfectly the other day. We are entering a very dirty and underhand stage of the game. The British government pay good money to infiltrate and cause mayhem. The miners strike was one such event – 1979 was another. Caution required by all in the Yes campaign.

    224. K1 says:

      For the Wings nightshift…

      167 signatures in under 4 hours, this petition has steady momentum…people have had enough.

      Sign if you haven’t, pass along if you have 🙂

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button

    225. Onwards says:

      The Scotsman article on the BBC studio space is now online.

      A bit of a non-story IMO if it wasn’t given at special rates, but poor judgement – especially with all the other proven bias.

    226. manandboy says:

      In case anyone missed it.

      William C McLaughlin
      June 12, 2014 • 19:38

      I can assure everyone that I am very much alive and well (William C McLaughlin).
      Both papers are carefully researched and evidence is supported by quoting the sources.
      The Scottish Atlantic Margin is a vast oil and gas province which contains oil and gas reserves probably two or three times that of the Scottish North Sea and contains the biggest oil field in the WORLD, west of the Isle of Lewis.

      The life span of all Scottish oil and gas reserves spans hundreds of years,
      not 40 or 50 years as Unionists would have us believe.

      If a NO vote does prevail (God forbid) and the Scots lose Scottish Atlantic Margin oil and gas reserves and Scottish mainland oil and gas reserves, then we will rue the day until the end of time.

      The long-term implications for Scotland are indeed immense and if we let this opportunity slip through our fingers, you can`t say that you wern`t informed.

    227. dadsarmy says:

      So we get some idiot mostly falsely casting aspersions on a mother of premature twins including one with palsy, because she dared to support NO, and the pro-indy websites rush to his defence, and even worse continue the attacks on the mother in an attempt to show – that cybernats are not vile nasty people who attack a mother of twins because she dares to support NO. Hmmm.

      And then we get a donor to the NO campaign who apparently gets attacked for giving £1 million to NO versus the £3.5 million the Weirs get to give to YEs, thanks very much, and the pro-indy websites rush to attack someome who attacks the vile cybernats to prove that hte vile cynernats don’t attack anyone who supports NO. Hmmm.

      And then we get some clown who tells everyone how to behave especially the vile cybernats, and he gets attacked for attacking the vile cybernats who aren’t realy vile, and that proves it, he’s vile so the vile cybernats aren’t vile. Hmmmm.

      Wake up at the abck there, what on earth do you think the uncommitted, the undecuded, the non-activisit, the “ordinary” mebers of the public will make of this? Do you think they will take your word that vile cybernats – aren’t – vile? Hmmm.

      The latest poll shows the gap halving down to 6 percentage points. At this rate of vile viling non-viling vile attacking non-attacking totally demented reactionary cyber-twaddle, the next poll will show it quadrupling to 24 percentage points.

      Does anyone ever stop to think what ordinary punters will think, rather than us mutually back-slapping Independence supporters? Do we really want to be as bad as Better Together?

      Please, cease and desist this attack on anyone who disagress with Independence. It’s a democracy, and people are completely entitled to support the Union – or not.

      Good grief, I have vent my spleen 🙁

    228. dadsarmy says:

      Hearts and minds, people, hearts and minds.

    229. dadsarmy says:

      THIS is the way to handle negative stuff, and thank goodness YES Scotland have the nous to do it right:

      http://yesscotland.net/news/briefing-yes-better-support-our-carers

      Carers Week is a fantastic initiative. But our carers require better recognition and support every week of the year – and a Yes gives us a great chance to deliver that. Increased Carers Allowance is just one of the measures that a Yes vote can deliver – as explained in our “gains of Yes” briefing for carers.

      I am not connected with YES Scotland.

    230. Thoughtsofascot says:

      McHaggis

      When the technologically illiterate bumpkins in the Media and politics discovered the internet, that is when the term “changed”

      The last thing the internet needed was more Ferrous Cranuses, crybabies and artful dodgers, which politicians and the media have supplied in spades

      (if no one understands what i am talking about, check here: http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com )

    231. geeo says:

      Dads army…

      What??????????!!!

      I just wish someone would define “cybernat” in an unequivical way.

      Dying to find out if being challenging but in a non abusive manner counts as being one ?
      If not then do i up my game and be nasty or learn to live with the disappointment ?

    232. geeo says:

      Dads army…

      What??????????!!!

      I just wish someone would define “cybernat” in an unequivical way.

      Dying to find out if being challenging but in a non abusive manner counts as being one ?
      If not then do i up my game and be nasty or learn to live with the disappointment ?

    233. geeo says:

      Soz about double post, im sore and tired but cannot sleep.
      As such i am an dyslexic agnostic insomniac….

      …i stay awake all nighy wondering if there is a dog..!

      Ahl get me coat..????
      ?

    234. geeo says:

      Soz about double post, im sore and tired but cannot sleep.
      As such i am an dyslexic agnostic insomniac….

      …i stay awake all night wondering if there is a dog..!

      Ahl get me coat..????
      ?

    235. Thoughtsofascot says:

      I just also want to say that im not convinced the diehard flamers are actual yes voters anymore. Its awfully similar to the way the last presidential election was handled over here in this tech savvy country. Too similar.

    236. Onwards says:

      @DadsArmy.

      I agree with your general point.

      Any abuse or retaliation is just counter-productive.
      We need to remember that the unionist side controls the mass media.
      Indy supporters need to think ahead how any comments or accusations will be spun, no matter how frustrating it is to bite your tongue at times.

      We also need to remember that many people also have some genuine British identity, even if they see themselves as Scottish first.

      We need to attract this group in the middle, and reach out.

      That means instead of rejecting all things British, we can argue for an improved Britain of equal sovereign nations working together.

      With independence we get a better Scotland, but we can also keep the best aspects of Britishness – shared personal and business and cultural connections.

      While losing the worst aspect – the unequal political union.

      It can be a ‘win-win’ situation, not an ‘either-or’ one.

    237. ronnie anderson says:

      Diddy Davie Cameron P M. Giving a pep talk on Team Engerlund

      We’re with you, all the way go for it. Thats them fucked then.

      What was that other great pep talk. I will defend with every

      fibre of my being bla , bla , bla .

      Leading from the front then Davie.

    238. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev, if Ian Brotherhood idea re WOS ad being done at Pacific

      Quay, could you arrange it for the 29th June, lots of free

      Extras available.

    239. donald anderson says:

      When it is Britspeak.

    240. john king says:

      Sometimes you just have to get it off your chest

      http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/06/13/gordon-brown-warns-telly-addicts-face-bleak-future-independent-scotland (sorry about the url but tinyurl wouldnt work)

      Got to catch up Gordo, Pensions (from you? really? ): debunked,

      defence, 2.5billion is what Sweden spends and actually has a navy, we spend 3billion and don’t have a single capital ship in Scotland, Oh I nearly forgot but we do have some of the most powerful warships in existence within 30 miles of Glasgow Gordon don’t we, but you cant really send a Boomer to chase the bad guys if they hijack an oil rig can you?,No all we get from those bad boys is a giant target painted across central Scotland,:debunked

      Health care ooh Gordon you really do like skating on thin ice don’t you, since its inception the Scottish NHS has be separate and independent from the English and Welsh NHS and Northern Ireland health service, and has had reciprocal agreements with them since 1948 , agreement which will not be affected one iota by independence,no more than it would affect reciprocal arrangements with France Germany, Italy and so on: debunked

      So as an ex PM (thank god) if you didn’t know that, maybe that’s why our country is in the mess its in,

      But of course you did know all these things which makes you a liar Gordon,

      care to call me a troll Gordon? maybe you would like to burst into crocodile tears and claim those nasty cybernats are attacking me, seems like the the modus operandi for your party these days, make spurious claims them scream troll the minute someone calls you on it, Or is it the Labour party in Scotland have never gotten over their major sulk that Scots have now seen them for what they really are, self serving troughers who’s only interest is their own and have never gotten over the country telling them to sod off.

      Oh btw I REALLY AM just an ordinary working dad, not a SNP activist not in a shadow cabinet, not a major player in the party to be painted as ordinary, I am just that,ORDINARY, and it seems as if I can take down the facile arguments of an ex PM WHO KNEW?

      oh btw feel free Gordon to correct me, if i have got any facts wrong there, I will take silence on your part as a tacit admission that I am right. 🙂

      ps hush my silly mouth
      what am I saying? the great lord Gordon being asked to explain himself by one of the great unwashed?
      I realised after all my efforts you don’t do debate Gordon do you?

      your methods are to lecture your audience then leg it before they get a chance to call you on your lies,
      oh and for the record, I thought your rude an arrogant behavour to that wee lassie from STV (who was just doing her job) when you stormed off in the Lochgelly Town hall interveiw showed you up for what YOU really are, a sad little bully who does not like to be challenged.

    241. john king says:

      I made no mention about his stupid remarks about telly because
      1 its provable nonsense.
      2 I couldn’t give a monkeys if I ever saw the BBC again (preferably not)
      3 The other two posters covered it admirably (nothing to add)

    242. Ken500 says:

      Gordon Brown is a tax evading liar. Gordon Brown has lied about Scottish revenues for years and has caused poverty and death worldwide, while squandering £Billions of public finances. How anyone could give credibility to what he says is a mystery. Debt 1.4trillion and rising. Westminster is corrupt.

    243. Clootie says:

      @John King

      Well said.

      More and more ordinary people are getting sick of Labour politicians telling and repeating lies. Gordon you have covered and Darling’s lie about banking collapse cost. Blair lied to get us to go to war. A war in which a million people died. But Tony gained great connections in the USA.

      These three men ran Westminster and now run down Scotland.

      If they are willing to repeat major lies over and over again why should we trust a word they say.

      This really is a chance for the people to take back a country AND it’s politics

    244. ronnie anderson says:

      The BBC have got a new presentor for Question Time

      Gordon Brown ? diz D Dimbly know he,s fur the heave ho ho ho.

    245. Ken500 says:

      BT and their allies do not like the truth but try to airbrush history. Defending their lying and corruption by always crying ‘Wolf’ when they get found out and held to account for their contemptible behaviour. People are justifiably extremely angry. The JK donation will be less than the tax saved by freeloading £Millionaires since 2011 Budget. The electorate are taxed at 20% to 40% +

      Westminster and their BT allies have driven the most vulnerable to food banks and death. They are trying to privatise the NHS. Tax evading, free loading, multimillionaires are totally out of touch in their fortified castles.

    246. ronnie anderson says:

      @ John King they thin papers can get folded 5 at a time

      pull out telescope fashion, bundle palm iron,fast easy.

    247. ronnie anderson says:

      fold 5 palm iron telescope to seperate bundle palm iron.

    248. donald anderson says:

      I am shocked to the core to learn that “Gordon Brown is a tax evading liar. Gordon Brown has lied about Scottish revenues for years and has caused poverty and death worldwide, while squandering £Billions of public finances. How anyone could give credibility to what he says is a mystery. Debt 1.4trillion and rising. Westminster is corrupt.” You will be telling me that Labour is full of lumpen numpties amd is anti socialist next.

    249. Sinky says:

      Can’t believe Ofcom has at last taken action over BBC assisting with the Better Together / No Borders cinema advert and continued CBI Membership as Radio Scotland seemed to be off the air at 7 a.m!

    250. Ken500 says:

      Labour is full of lumpen numpties and is anti socialist.

    251. donald anderson says:

      Ken500 says:
      14 June, 2014 at 7:25 am

      Labour is full of lumpen numpties and is anti socialist.

      Neffer! Is the Pope a Kafflick?

    252. Brian Mchugh says:

      I’m a Cybernat and i’m ok
      I challenge the lies on the news each day.

      I don’t take bull from the MSM,
      who say i’m evil and bad.
      I laugh and smile back at them,
      which makes them kinda mad.

      ..cos…

      I’m a Cybernat and i’m ok
      I challenge the lies on the news each day.

      I get right up their noses,
      They thought they had the information monopoleee…
      …so steam comes out their ears,
      and they say it’s because of me. 😉

      …cos…

      I’m a Cybernat and i’m ok
      I challenge the lies on the news each day.

    253. caz-m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Mornin Ronnie, I also saw David Cameron’s big polished heed on my TV screen as well this morning. He wished the “national” team good luck and that the whole “nation” was behind them.

      I thought he was the Prime Minister of the whole of the UK and not just England. Would he have said the same thing if it was just Scotland who had qualified from the UK.

      This is another example of England thinking that they are this UK Nation and Scotland is merely a region of that UK Nation.

      England defeat = joy.

      England win = more YES votes.

    254. R whittington says:

      Yeah. The Scottish referendum is *ALL* about the England footie team.

    255. caz-m says:

      John King 6.06am

      Excellent summary of Gordon Brown, I do hope you are feeling better after that.

      Also, on the subject of Union Jacks John, is your wife still avoiding that Union Jack fest down at Morrisons?
      I do hope so.

      I haven’t been near the place since I heard about them (Morrisons) handing out Better Together leaflets and covering their stores in Union Jacks.

    256. manandboy says:

      BBC is putting the Pope out as bait for the Yes Campaign.

      usual tactics from the dark side

      inventing statements
      while ignoring what was actually said
      like
      “but the secession of a nation
      without a history of forced unity
      must be handled very carefully.

    257. bookie from hell says:

      pope

      cybervat

    258. bookie from hell says:

      pope

      cybervat

      Vatican City is a independent state

    259. for bookie bashers –

      Netherlands winning 5-1 produced “Correct Score” odds at 100/1.
      Van Gaal couldn`t have predicted that result.

    260. MajorBloodnok says:

      Maybe the Pope thinks the “No Thanks” slogan is something to do with contraception through observing carnal abstinence?

      Still, if his holiness really is for no, then some sections of Scottish tribal society will suddenly realize that they are somewhat conflicted.

    261. galamcennalath says:

      Just been reading…

      “Biggest oil-field in the world lies to the west of Lewis”

      http://tinyurl.com/OilWest

      The UK will not issue licences. It appears that while the infamous McCrone Report is historical, the same mindset is alive and well in the 21stC – “To maintain the Union, don’t let the Scots know the true scale and value of their oil reserves”.

      BT want to place ‘too poor’ at the centre of the debate. Doesn’t this just blow it away? Is it not a game changer?

    262. bookie from hell says:

      labour panic at the top

      Gord uses the word federalism instead of devolution

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/gordon-brown-no-more-independence-vitriol-1-3444097

    263. Short changed says:

      Its time like these that Europe’s decision to uphold peoples right to be forgotten on the internet is questionable.

    264. Marian says:

      There’s an article in today’s Scotsman claiming that a recent ‘Better Together’ cinema advert that pulled by the cinemas, was made in the BBC’s Glasgow studios under some commercial arrangement – see http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/better-together-film-made-in-bbc-studio-1-3444021

      Can anyone clarify if this film that was made in the BBC studios and pulled by the cinemas was really made for ‘Better Together’ or was it actually made for the ‘No Borders’ astroturf organisation that received so much unwarranted publicity from the BBC on the day of its launch?

    265. john king says:

      Day two (ala geordie accent)

      Sit and ponder the damp morning with trepidation given the Mr Bean comedy routine with the newspapers falling out of my bag in slow motion onto the soaking wet ground yesterday I’m not exactly thrilled by the prospect of a rerun,

      So I take to here @ 05.00 and read up on the previous evenings events and find a link to Gordon Brown making an arse of himself again, the level of argument put up by people like brown is so laughable as to be insulting, but does that mean no one believes it, I’m afraid not, since the level of understanding on this site means that any one of us could sit on a (balanced ha ha ) newsnight Scotland and disassemble that clowns waver thin arguments in seconds,
      In no small measure is that thanks to Rev Stu

      So in the sure knowledge that his target audience are not aware of his lies smirks his way through an interview and laughs at us because he knows we wont get the same opportunity to counter his lies, but get this Brown, what goes around comes around,

      But back to the really important things
      my wee paper round (I wanted one o those since I was 12)
      So I go into the front cupboard to fold the papers up for my round, and lo, what have we here? Irene has folded up a couple of hundred of them and laid them neatly on top of the freezer (I knew there was a reason I married that girl)
      btw thanks for the folding 5 up at once tip Ronnie I’ll get Irene to try that tomorrow 🙂

      so off I go,
      and dump my papers over the nearest hedge and head off to the local cafe for a well earned breakfast (only kidding)

      A lot of the houses are 4 in a block, so every second house I trudge upstairs (everybody go aawww)
      and walking streets instead of driving them makes you realise what seems flat when your driving is like the north side of Mt Everest when your walking,
      in fact I quickly realised my town has a lot in common with San Francisco (and I don’t mean the sunshine) 🙁

      Today I avoided the embarrassing spectacle of dancing around like an idiot bent double picking up soaking wet papers off the ground by holding the stupid backpack firmly under my arm, I distract myself with naming plants in peoples gardens (that Hosta’s called So Sweet etc) which passes the time admirably,
      But I have to say I do intend to sue Ronnie Anderson
      you didnt warn me the speed at which you lose the beer belly when you said Irene could buy me a pair of Primarks best when I lose the belly,
      so walking doon the stairs of a four in the block ma troosers fell doon,
      a wis fair black affrontit soin a wis,

      So Im down to the last couple of papers and it did seem like I had started only ten minutes ago, and I find myself mentally noting the last house to get a paper so I can pick up where I left off tomorrow,
      It is damp and humid and the sweat is running out of the shuckes of my——– anyway and I get back to the car for the 500 yard journey home and find out I had been paper rounding for half an hour longer than yesterday,

      I wonder what the hell was wrong with me when I was 12 ,wanting a frigging paper bloody round, was I effing mad?
      but all the while I’m thinking this I have a smile on my face.
      Message to Gerry Parker
      I gets easier 🙂

    266. geeo says:

      “And while I set out in my NEW BOOK proposals for a system that is as close to FEDERALISM as you can get in a UK, where one nation is 85 per cent of the whole, I fail to see what we gain – whether for PENSIONS”,…..

      I just lost the will after this section of Broon’s pash talk…

    267. Helena Brown says:

      John King you fair made my day, here am I wishing the trousers would fall down so I could go and get a size smaller. I certainly need a paper round, I thought walking the dog would do it but the heat, I know, has been shortening his walks recently.

    268. Helena Brown says:

      Oh and Broon is and has never been worth listening to. I see Mr Barrowman has an award from the Queen this morning, services to something or other, but we all know what HE got it for.

    269. call me dave says:

      GMS gives us an expert to summarise the unionist ‘devo max’ (their words) proposals. But says getting it through the UK parliament after a NO is debatable.

      Murdo Fraser and P. Harvie discuss the flavour of this jam tomorrow.

      Surely the voters recognise a pig in a poke.

    270. It would appear that John McTiernan`s Muppet mob have now infiltrated WoS by following his instruction manual which will be orchestrated from SLAB Central.(London)

      New contributors and readers of WoS must be confused when, long before they entered the fray,all the info has been shown on this website but been ignored recently by McTiernan`s muppets.Care to guess why?

      We must repeat our message again and again for the benefit of our new friends – and to nullify this toe-rag and his hired assassins.

      Last year Prof Arthur Midwinter advised Johann Lament that the Scottish Parliament Budget must be cut by a further £2.2 billion
      £28.6 billion for 2014-15 cut to £26.4 billion by New Labour.

      SLAB wants Scots to be ever poorer but shift the saving of £2.2 billion to England?

      Where is the response from tearaway McTiernan or Lamont?

      Abuse is better for Slab (than proven facts) and show them to be the idiots they have always been.
      OR the mugs they want US to be in Sept 2014. if we vote for their poverty stricken BT Future.

    271. Mosstrooper says:

      At John King 8.56

      I feel your pain however I note that you say that the sweat was running out of the “shuckes” of your ++++. The correct spelling is sheuch and most folk have only one in their ****.

      To have more than one sheuch cannot be desirable (double the toilet tissue for a start)and as for the flatulence!

      Anyway keep on keeping on John.

    272. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brian your song is great – I shall sing it all day!
      Ronnie you are a star and John look on the strides falling down as a bonus aka Helena.
      Scotland will be slimmer and fitter!
      T-Jenny anything which gives WGD a helping hand – I’m in.
      After all he gives me a helping hand most mornings.

    273. David McCann says:

      ” the ooze of a very different and more dangerous lifestyle has seeped out for all to see”.

      Yes Ms Moir. We noticed.

    274. The Rough Bounds says:

      @Mosstrooper.

      Is that why dopey Goofy says ”Aw shucks!”?

    275. HandandShrimp says:

      http://uk.isidewith.com/poll/420350795-scottish-independence-poll/443458700-scotland

      Saw this posted up above. It has, across the world, attracted huge numbers of votes world and over 27,000 votes in Scotland (which is quite impressive).

      We appear to be factionally in the lead with both sides on 44% each…which seems to chime with recent opinion polls. The results for the rest of the UK of about 55% No 20% Yes seem to also be similar to recent polls. It certainly puts paid to the frequent troll claim that if we gave the rest of the UK the vote they would elect to kick us out.

      Only we can do this for ourselves.

    276. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      John, once the papers are folded get a load of cheap thin plastic bags and put say 25 papers in a bag. Load your satchel with 4 or 5 bags, open ends up.

      Keeps the papers orderly without having to mess with rubber bands, helps you keep count, and if it comes on rain it lets you keep a bunch in your hand without them getting wet and you can carry on.

      My paper-folder thought of it, and thanks to that idea I was able to keep going even when a snowstorm started while I was doing a round in January past.

    277. dadsarmy says:

      @Onwards

      Thanks for the reasoned reply. I think we have to be careful not to just rubber-stamp everything anyone from the YES side does, just because they’re Indy supporters.

      What is clear though is this. My posting is still here, a posting which is obviously critical of the Rev’s articles on these issues. It’s his site yet he chooses to leave critical articles undeleted. That’s a strength, and one which pro-union websites don’t seem to be able to copy!

    278. dadsarmy says:

      @geeo

      There’s a small fringe of damaging whackos on the Indy side, and a fringe of whackos on the Union side. I would say in general Indy posters outnumber Union posters (+tweeters or whatever) by maybe 5 to 1.

      Simple maths says that therefore there are 5 times as many Indy whackos as there are Union ones!

    279. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Except there aren’t. The proportions of whackos in each camp are not the same.

    280. I wouldn’t dream of stooping to abuse. I’ll just patiently go through, yet again, the reasons why the arguments JK Rowling recycles are wrong. Like hell I will.
      http://www.richard-haley.co.uk/rowling-wizards-spin/

    281. Will Podmore says:

      Dal Riata writes, “So you go apeshit with your smearing and name calling – “faceless keyboard warriors”, “irrelevant eejits” – and yet, say it is “easy to dismiss” those who wish to see Scotland independent…? You utterly, despicable hypocrites.”
      Pots and kettles, yet again.



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