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Wings Over Scotland

Truth is fleeting, lies persist

Posted on June 26, 2015 by

On Wednesday we highlighted a curious outbreak of mass hysteria in the Scottish press, when a whole clutch of its newspapers suddenly and inexplicably jumped on a six-month-old story that had been comprehensively debunked at the time and hadn’t become any more true.


The story was swiftly proven to be complete rubbish all over again, and some of the papers printed grudging and much less prominent pieces admitting it was nonsense (all gallantly blaming their source, some Buckingham Palace flunky gone rogue, rather than their own failure to check the facts).

And then things got weird.

Throughout yesterday we posted a series of tweets noticing that while the Times had run a correction, it was strangely still running the false version of the story as the lead item on its Scotland pages, with the true version relegated to a secondary billing.


But we hadn’t seen anything yet.


Because the image above is how that Scotland-section front page looks this morning. Not only is the two-day old false story STILL the lead Scottish news item in the UK’s most respected newspaper of record, but the true version has completely vanished. Absolutely nowhere on the page can the corrected piece be found.

We wondered whether perhaps, given the gravity of the error, the original article now contained the corrections in itself to ensure nobody got the wrong impression. But no.


The piece hasn’t been altered in any way, and the top “related news” link is still to the paper’s demented editorial leader calling the (completely fictional) move a “republican insurrection” and a “rebellion”. You have to go more than halfway down the page, to the “Royal Family” link section, before you can find the truth.

We’re at a loss to explain it. While the Times is no less Unionist than the rest of the media, it normally at least has rather more journalistic integrity. But increasingly, when it comes to reporting events in Scotland ever since the ungrateful Jocks elected 56 SNP MPs, no treatment seems too contemptuous.

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  1. 26 06 15 11:17

    Truth is fleeting, lies persist | Speymouth

  2. 26 06 15 11:20

    Truth is fleeting, lies persist | Politics Scot...

108 to “Truth is fleeting, lies persist”

  1. One_Scot says:

    It looks like the unionist UK media Scotland policy is to dump on Scotland constantly and go big.

    Thank God we voted to stay in this ‘best of both worlds’ union. Can you imagine what it would have been like if we hadn’t.

  2. Grouse Beater says:

    Do the 55% have any misgivings about inviting perpetual humiliation and ridicule on everybody’s heads?

    Scotland’s enemies do not distinguish between those who voted for them and those who did not.

  3. Iain C says:

    How are the papers going to report a real insurrection in Scotland if it happens? They have already gone to defcon 3 over some people posting sarcastic tweets so they must be running out of hysterical words to use. Maybe the headline “Scotland in revolt, and for once we’re not lying”?

  4. david agnew says:

    There we have it. Conclusive proof. The smoking gun. A Slam dunk moment. The UK media has in fact just vanished up its own arse.

    It is beginning to act and talk like Scottish labour has done for the last 18 years. There is no other way to explain it.

    They have contracted Nawbag disease – possibly fatal i’ve heard.

  5. Dan Huil says:

    It’s almost as if the unionist media wants to end the union; why otherwise behave the way they do?

    Certainly some unionists in Scotland love masochistically wallowing in self-hatred but surely many will come to realise just how unwanted they are by the Westminster establishment and its supporters in the media.

    Unionist arrogance and ignorance towards Scotland will never cement the union; it can only lead to its demise.

  6. Scott Borthwick says:

    Off topic, but related to media bias: I do hope that the suggested axing of the BBC Trust and handing of its powers to Ofcom may force the BBC to be a little less biased.

    Of course, I’m probably being more than a little optimistic.

  7. Brian Powell says:

    Grouse Beater

    Many of the 55% think it will not apply to them, they ‘did the right thing’ by the establishment, so they will be safe.

    History is littered with Party faithfuls and ‘cosy-uppers’, who suddenly found they weren’t Party faithful enough.

    A case in point, Labour voters and London Labour..

  8. Brian Fleming says:

    The 55%? Who still believes the referendum wasn’t rigged? I certainly don’t.

  9. Brian Powell says:

    On accountability, or lack of it being more to the point. “The BBC Trust will be axed and its powers handed to the communications regulator Ofcom.” reported in one paper.

    Doubt it will make any difference. as Ofcom doesn’t seem to have many teeth, and is probable filled with BBC types.

  10. faolie says:

    It’s an odd thing right enough. Why, if one was being paranoid, one would think it was yet another coordinated attack on Scotland, this time using something dear to all our hearts (aye, right).

    Who is aimed at though? There are plenty of royalists in Scotland, but they’re mostly ageing and didn’t vote Yes. The younger generation may like Prince Harry but I can’t imagine they’d give a toss if we weren’t a monarchy anymore.

    So is all this aimed at? English readers, aghast at how, again, ungrateful Scotland treats another of their cherished pillars of the fading establishment?


  11. Dr Ew says:

    The Times famously bills itself as “the newspaper of record”.

    Perhaps “the newspaper of record… levels of bullshit and bollocks” would be more to the point.

  12. R-type Grunt says:

    One_Scot says:
    26 June, 2015 at 10:10 am

    It looks like the unionist UK media Scotland policy is to dump on Scotland constantly and go big.

    Thank God we voted to stay in this ‘best of both worlds’ union. Can you imagine what it would have been like if we hadn’t?

    Why yes I can. Every day would be exciting. Every day would be pregnant with possibilities. We’d be not just imagining a better country; we’d be building it. We’d be declaring to the world that Weapons of Mass Destruction were no longer welcome to our shores. We’d be instigating a Living Wage, so that everyone could look to the future with some hope that life wouldn’t be a perpetual grind. We’d be giving the disabled the rights they’re entitled to, as human beings. We’d be negotiating our seats at the top tables, or not. We Scots don’t need to be the boss of anyone but ourselves.

    I suppose, in time, some No voters can be won over to our cause but I fear we might just need to wait until the rump of them die. Their poverty of imagination is so depressing. Hopefully, with the new media, they are slowly being starved of the oxygen that allows them to propagate their lies & smears. Their fears.

  13. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It is important that we don’t get distracted by matters that are presently out of our control and are therefore currently largely irrelevant.
    I am always surprised by the large number of otherwise sensible supporters that are easily led into divisive arguments about royalty and the EU.

    We have no power over either issue until we are independent.

    As a republican who would like us to remain in the EU I recognise that others marching alongside me hold a very opposite view on each of these issues but we agree to disagree until the people of Scotland are free to decide on them and that freedom is our shared goal at the moment.

  14. Big Fraud says:

    Maybe they’re being really clever in a way:

    Running fake stories of policies most SNP voters would like to see pursued as a means of planting the seed in their heads that they, indeed, aren’t.

    When the stories are debunked then people may ask “…so then WHY are they not cancelling payments to the royal estate?”

    Or perhaps I’m over-thinking it…

  15. HandandShrimp says:

    I think the establishment relied on Labour to keep us quiet. Now that option is a busted flush they are all over the shop. It seems that the media feel it is their duty to pick up the mantle to keep the rebellious Scots in their place.

    They are making an arse of it but that is not our problem.

  16. Dr Jim says:

    “English people intimidated in Scotland”

    “Outbreaks of violence against English in Scotland”

    “SNP deny anti English rhetoric”

    Then they get a couple of folk to go on the telly and, or in the newspapers to tell their tragic tale and give out advice as to how careful to be if you take the risk of holidaying in Scotland
    The BBC say the risk to safety is low
    While at the same time hinting Zimbabwe might be safer

    Job Done

  17. Breeks says:

    You know if this kind of thing isn’t nipped in the bud, the English might demand their Independence before too long.

  18. Macart says:

    There is only one explanation.

    They are quite deliberately running an anti Scottish government and by association anti Scottish agenda in the media. Those spads must be working their speed dials on overdrive these days. Anyroads, they’re doing a grand job of poking the bear with a stick.

    More than ever, I reckon we mustn’t rise to it. We can do little to affect the readerships of these rags and we know for an absolute certainty now, that the SGs side of the stories will receive little or no notice. We keep on doing what we’re doing and calmly pointing out their hypocrisy and narrative to those we can reach.

    Those 56 MPs must be leaving an impression in Commons to be attracting so much negative attention from the press. I take as a good sign that the louder the press gets, the more annoying our MPs are. 🙂

  19. Proud Cybernat says:

    Trying to provoke us–that’s all. The relentless negativity towards Scotland and the Scots from the MSM and WM is all about trying to get us to demand the final indyref now when they think they can still win it and thus it really can be kicked into the long, long grass for the next 30-40 years. They know they will lose the final indyref if it is held say 5-7 years away. That is why they are trying to provoke us into demanding one now. We must be patient, keep our powder dry.

  20. galamcennalath says:

    “… journalistic intergrity ……. no treatment seems too contemptuous.”

    Clearly these should be mutually exclusive. Begs the question … cock up or conspiracy?

    Have we reached the stage where even the more responsive outlets have fallen into line with the orgy of Jock bashing?

    Is it orchestrated, or just the MSM gossip circle with the blind leading the blind?

  21. Mosstrooper says:

    Journalistic integrity? A fine example of an oxymoron if ever I have seen one.

  22. ArtyHetty says:

    Dave M H @10.51

    Of course you are right and these people are intent on distracting from the issues regards the Smith commission and those extra powers we aren’t being given. But, it’s great to have these
    rubbish stories in the msm debunked and not allow them to get their lies out 100%.

    It seems that as far as the royals and tories are concerned we are living in the past, the serfs need to be kept in their place, they comply in England and act as the subjects that they are, but Scotland has always been a bit of a problem. Certainly seems they Re ratcheting up the anti Scottish rhetoric, perhaps the oil is about to go sky high and more has been discovered in Scottish waters, it’s something like that.

    It’s so good to know we are all just, ‘OK’ with ukok, though many are feeling far from OK and come July will be feeling very much fckd over.

  23. Macca73 says:

    @faolie You hit the nail on the head without really knowing it. One word MURDOCH. This is exactly the sort of thing he does.

    He’s pitting one side against the other. Look at how his Scum newspaper (sun) on the same days had both Tory and SNP on both of it’s front pages. He’s a serial manipulator playing off the cards that he thinks might get him richer. He wants to control who’s in power and this suits his agenda.

    This is being aimed at people south of the border in an effort to further divide and conquer. He’s creating soundbites to get people talking and when they do that they buy newspapers to discuss them or so they can see it in black and white. Crazy I know but it’s what works for him.

    I think we’ve got to be careful. He’s drumming up alot of resentment here and I’ve already seen this week on a post on Facebook about people saying We blame the English for everything. We don’t, We blame successive Westminter governments for thier failings.

    These kind of headlines don’t serve us well. We need to extend our hands to our fellow citizens wherever they are but at the same time let people know what the real enemies are about because the union may have failed and we need out but England has good people and they are also being failed by the same people.

  24. Training Day says:

    @R-type Grunt

    “I suppose, in time, some No voters can be won over to our cause but I fear we might just need to wait until the rump of them die. Their poverty of imagination is so depressing.”

    I agree. My experience of talking to No voters since September 18th has demonstrated that they are largely oblivious to the smears and abuse heaped upon Scotland and Scots in the UK MSM. It doesn’t apply to them. Many are simply relieved to have avoided – from their point of view – various potential apocalypses presented to them by Better Together. Much of that ‘relief’ revolves around taxation.

    Poverty of imagination is indeed the defining characteristic of the No voter.

  25. Giving Goose says:

    Re Proud Cybernat

    It is also about deflecting attention away from other matters that may be of importance and interest to voters in the South East. Look at the news today;

    Planned work on the Rail system binned.

    Housing crisis, with £72k now being the amount required as a deposit for £168k home, anyone under the age of 40 will never own a house.

    Popular pension provision is now buy to let, but only existing home owners can afford this. Guess who pays the rent? – the people who can’t afford to buy.

    All is not rosy in the South East and the masses may not be happy. Better get them thinking about something else; I know – the enemy within; the Scots!

    The good people of England are fed bullshit as well being shit on from a great height.

  26. mogabee says:

    It obviously has taken a wee while for the tories to adjust to their new situation.

    Rest assured, Scotland and the 56 will feature prominently to divert attention from the EU and Cameron’s failing attempt to enact treaty change.

    Also, they do realise how much easier political life would be without those “pesky kids”…

    Or… I am far too cynical these days!

  27. JLT says:

    To be honest, I haven’t found The Times to be any different from the other right-wing Unionist papers.

    As we got closer to the Referendum date last year, I found The Times was becoming more and more anti-Scottish (but no worse than what other papers were producing). For years, I used to get The Sunday Times as a wee treat at the weekend (usually for all the supplements).

    Now …I wouldn’t touch either paper with a bargepole.

  28. James Kay says:

    Has anyone else noticed that they seem to be running another story under the heading:

    The royals are Britain’s real welfare junkies

    It can be found in the image below Stu’s “But we hadn’t seen anything yet.”, bottom left corner. It would seem to be their most active story, according to the box in which it is placed!

  29. Fireproofjim says:

    R-type grunt
    “Poverty of imagination” – A perfect phrase to sum up the No voter. One I will shamelessly steal and use.

    Dave M H at 10.51
    You are absolutely right re avoiding internal squabbles about the Monarchy and EU.
    Discussions on these must be kept until we are independent, otherwise we will only alienate our Yes friends who think differently.

  30. ahundredthidiot says:

    The MSM journey of language – only a matter of time

    enemy of the state


  31. Bob Mack says:

    There are only a few possibilities for this type of journalism.

    1. The most obvious—they are trying hard to discredit the SNP at every turn,hoping to influence voters to turn against them.

    2.They are being influenced by Government who fear the future break up of the UK if the current political choices in Scotland endure till the Holyrood elections.

    3.Perhaps the most outlandish theory—could they be lining up the SNP as the republican threat ,and take Putin like action by sending in peacekeepers to protect unionist interest in the face of such.

    The campaign against Scotland is too concerted to be accidental.It is showing every sign of being organised. I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature,but neither am I a fool who ignores what is blatantly obvious.

  32. Heidstaethefire says:

    You can smell the panic inside the Westminster/Whitehall/M25 bubble from here. They cannot deal with or understand any politics that happens outside of that wee world, and like fears people the world over, they lash out. I regard it all as very positive.

  33. Les Wilson says:

    I thought the press were meant to have rules of conduct? ( I know, I know!)
    Not applicable to hard core press?
    If not, why not?

  34. HandandShrimp says:

    Giving Goose

    You are right, a lot of the demonising of Scotland is simply to have “an other” to rail against so that serious issues closer to home can be skimmed over or ignored.

    The ordinary people of England are being short changed in all this too because their papers should be focussing on issues that affect them.

  35. scott says:

    Sorry O/T.Question Time about 44 minutes in Fraser Nelson on people trying to come to UK are just like a few generations ago when people left his part of the country to cross to America,no mention of why they did this,thrown out so sheep were more profitable to the landowners than people.
    The above link is worth a look,maybe I should send it to Nelson.

  36. Liz says:

    Deflection used to cover up the fact that Queen excepted, rest of royal family have been racking up the travel expenses as they jet around the world. I see there is a suggestion it should debated in HoC whether SNP ministers should be required to bend the knee to affirm their allegiance again. Think we’ve regressed to the 14th century!

  37. Helena Brown says:

    Brian Fleming @ 10.33am I agree and someone said in reply to Macart’s post on the Wee Ginger Dug it is what comes of letting Westminster control the voting. Next time no Electoral Commission should be allowed anywhere near the votes and we need to call in the UN to administrate it.
    On the subject of the BBC Trust or Ofcom, well they are both toothless and useless bits of the Establishment so no change there then.

  38. Capella says:

    Curiously, the Guardian effort by Caroline Davies was very schizoid with an anti Scotland title and message at the top followed by the actual facts further down the page.
    The comments, however, were almost all supportive of the Scottish Government which was a surprise. Some English readers aren’t as daft as the media think.

  39. Marie clark says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @10.39, Macart @ 10.59, Proud Cybernat @ 10.59.
    Well said good folk, all of your points well made. I absolutely agree. I think we have to just let them carry on as they are, I just try and ignore it. Powder must be kept dry, and heids must be kept.

    The MSM are doing a grand job. SNP membership is up, and though not all of us are SNP members, the SG knows what it is doing. The 56 would also appear to be doing a good job, going by all the adverse stories and the general irritation at Westminster that they are actually doing what the people of Scotland elected them to do.

    The time will come for another referendum and our independence, but the time is not now. Patience and courage mon braves.

  40. Gaavster says:

    Proof if we ever needed it that Dylan got it wrong when he wrote

    “The Times, they are a changing…”

    I’ll get my coat…

  41. Valerie says:

    I sometimes try to think what strategy the Unionists are aiming for, because w hat Rev has pointed up here is a very deliberate decision.

    I think the Tories are moving into some kind of position to dump Scotland, or engineer such provocation that the SG lash out. We know Cameron will be working his notice very soon, and I think it will be Boris who takes over. I can’t see Gideon or May in that job.

    A letter in the National yesterday was asking why Ruth was so quiet just now, given she had taken over the media for the last 6 months and tweeting nonsense about polling places.

    Tories are making any powers non existent, then will say the SNP are rubbish, and won’t use their power.

    It wouldn’t surprise me that at some point when the Tories have stripped what they can, they turn around and say fine, take FFA, when they know it would be impossible to run.

  42. woosie says:

    Leveson anyone?

    The msm owners/tory donors have obviously been assured no backlash on all slurs against anything Scottish.

    The only people who actually believe any part of this trash, of course, are those who buy these wastepapers, and want to believe it anyway.

  43. The quicker these unionist rags go out of business the better

  44. gillie says:

    Rumours are the Cathy Newman has been removed as Channel 4 News editor of FACTCHECK after her piece in the Daily Telegraph wrongly criticising Nicola Surgeon.

  45. Dcanmore says:

    Month after month Scotland is progressively being pushed further out into the cold. This is part of the UK that is systematically being exiled, where the only area of importance is retaining its resources and cash flow into the Treasury, the people don’t figure at all in this colony by any other name. It’s the worst of both worlds.

    The London-based media want to sell a story to a predominately right-wing audience, so Scotland becomes an enemy, the new Westminster politicians, Holyrood, the people, the culture even. David Cameron gave the London media a golden goose… be afraid of the ungrateful Scots, they will take your money, then comeback for more.

    In the run up to the General Election John Harris of The Guardian posted several video blogs from around the UK as he travelled to various constituencies to capture the mood of the nation. When he went to Nuneaton, a quiet unremarkable market town in the West Midlands, there he discovered something worrying. When asked about what concerned voters the replies came in the fashion of immigration, Europe and Scotland. ‘If the Scots get in we’re done for’ was one reply on the street. Harris found Scotland being consistently used as a negative to be distasteful. He noted that the largest and most prominent political billboard in the town was of Alex Salmond stealing money out of the English taxpayers pocket. The Rev, I seemed to remember, also noted this in Bath at the time.

    You might not know it, but Scotland is in the middle of a campaign against it. It is not a campaign to remove Scotland from the UK, it is one where public opinion is being amassed against Scotland receiving the perceived extra cash. In other words when the Tories strip Scotland of funding and scrap the Barnet formula, then it will be met with wide public approval and media appraisal.

    Part of this campaign is the setting up of a Northern Powerhouse, connected to London via HS2. A Northern Powerhouse centred around Manchester is partly designed to drain Scotland of its brightest and best into England, a move that is not too wrenching for young educated Scots as it would be, for instance, moving to SE/London. Funding will be taken from Scotland and ploughed into Manchester, ensuring that Scotland will be weak economically for years to come. Scotland cannot be allowed to be an economic success within the UK, that means competition for London and a successful SNP.

    Despite what you think of all this negativity driven in the press, Scotland is to remain part of the UK, but only in chains.

  46. Capella says:

    In that Guardian article Montfleury’s link is particularly appropriate:
    “Here’s someone who has read the law and had a think about it”

    A dung heap of unadulterated, fabricated crap.”

  47. Macart says:

    Do you ever get the feeling you’re being used?

    Scapegoating, othering and all in the name of deflection. Deflection from what? Well you name it – Gideon’s next budget, the effectiveness of the 56 in Commons debate, the car crash that is the undeliverable Smith fudge, austerity biting the people of England and anti austerity marches in the capital. A bit of two prong thrown in for good measure in that you’re also undermining the mandate and credibility of a potential threat to your comfy hegemony.

    What better way to achieve a bit of respite for your government than to alienate a partner?

    These people don’t give a shit about the harm they cause, therefore we have to. We mustn’t give them the reaction they seek. It helps them and harms people.

  48. G H Graham says:

    State Benefits for Royal Types

    The amount of housing benefit, child tax credits & job seekers allowance (known in Royal circles as the Sovereign Grant) awarded to the Queen of England for the financial year 2012-2013 was £31.0 million. But two years ago, that wasn’t quite enough for the old girl because she ended up burning through £33.3 million. Sadly, it was also reported that by March 2013, she was down to her last £1 million in cash reserves.

    Consequently, for the financial year 2013-14 it was determined that despite having a net personal worth of over £340 million, she wasn’t getting nearly enough in sate benefits. So she was awarded an extra £5.1 million, lifting the total of the nation’s generosity to £36.1 million.

    Austerity for the Wealthy

    However, clearly mindful of getting her fingers burned the year before, she did some right royal belt tightening & managed to limit expenses to a measly £35.7 million. But Britain hates to see someone victimised just because they are having money problems, right?

    So for the financial year 2014-15 her loyal nation reached even deeper into its pockets & awarded her an extra £1.8 million, lifting her state benefits to £37.9 million.

    Royal Flush

    Perhaps due to an accounting error, or maybe the cancellation due to poor weather, of her state visit to Iraq, the Queen of England found out that by March 2015, she had a spare £2.2 million left over. But in these times of crushing austerity, the nation knows no limits to its generosity. So, cognisant of Queen Elizabeth’s battle with spending other people’s money, she is to get another raise for the financial year 2015-2106 lifting her benefits to over £40 million.

    Accountability Counts

    For those republicans among you, you may wish to relieve your day job misery by taking time during your 15 minute, monitored tea break, to peruse the Queen of England’s unenviable ten year battle to reign in housing costs (heating, lighting, food, gardening, house insurance, child care, road tax, TV license fee, occasional pizza, etc., here …

  49. Muscleguy says:

    @Brian Flemming

    Count me as someone who does not think the result was rigged. We lost, suck it up. R-Type Grunt and I both know RIC people who were at the Dundee count and are adamant that nothing untoward happened other than some twat repeatedly trying to smoke in the toilets.

    Most of it was a beatup by RT being mischievous. What’s it like being a stooge of Putin’s propaganda?

  50. DerekM says:

    none of this is aimed at us they want the people of the south of England to remain unquestioningly loyal to westminster,cant have those uppity Scots go about telling everybody they are getting lied to now that will just not do.

    We will see all sorts of lies about us but it is all to keep the S England sheep in their pens raging at the Scots and most importantly believing the tories are the only party that can save them from us rebellious Scots coming down and eating their weans.

    All absolute tosh but then its never stopped them before,Thatcher did it with great effect and if the Welsh,N Irish and N English think they will escape it then they should think again.

  51. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    It just means anything from the Times can be utterly dismissed now as they have been proven to be completely untrustworthy liars.

    If a Newspaper continues to print easily disproven lies when even their competitors know the game is up it’s just trashed any hope of it being taken seriously again.

    Anyone can now refer to them as “the lying Times” without fear of correction or reprisal since, as we clearly see, that is indeed the case.

  52. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Maybe they’re being really clever in a way:”

    It’s a good point, except that even most SNP voters want to retain the monarchy, as we found out in our recent poll. We might not like it, but that’s the reality.

  53. Edward says:

    It seems to have all kicked off on WOS twitter feed
    with Grahamski making unfounded accusations , refusing to back up his claims has now run off waving his handbag.

    Typically Duncan Haversack has joined in and equalling making an arse of himself

    If I had know, I would have got the jumbo pack of popcorn 😀

  54. manandboy says:

    Perhaps we should have a designated ‘Day of Depression’, when we could collectively celebrate our ‘post GE15 Tory win depression’; or even our ‘post IndyRef depression’.

    By so doing we could freely acknowledge and ventilate our ‘depression’ such as it may be, and then move on, having ‘done it’, to doing something new for the cause of Independence – like actually joining an Independence Party, and in an active way.

    There are about 2 milion ‘Yessers’ now, but still only 110,000 SNP members, 10,000 Green members and 5000 SSP members. I’m certain Scotland can do a whole lot better than that. And don’t think of all the reasons there are for NOT joining – just come up with one FOR joining. And just do it!

  55. artyHetty says:

    Liz@ 11.43
    ‘ I see there is a suggestion it should debated in HoC whether SNP ministers should be required to bend the knee to affirm their allegiance again. Think we’ve regressed to the 14th century!’

    And if they don’t? Oh if only they could turn back the clock! I am glad they don’t have their personal time machines…

  56. Snode1965 says:

    Dcanmore, Your explanation is the most plausible I have read to date here, or elsewhere.

  57. andy nimmo says:

    Please remember folks. There is a Template for all this.

    As history shows, Chavez was never defeated. He remained President until his death in March 2013. The story was completely fabricated tosh. What’s worse the joyous celebrations that ensued when Chavez was eventually declared the winner,were skilfully edited to ‘show a rioting mob’.
    Result – This nonsense so enraged some of the decent Venezuelan people that there were isolated attacks on US property and civilians.
    Result – Job Done. Fox News could then justify painting Venezuelans as violent anti American yobs, forcing Hugo Chavez to famously declare that 2he loved American People but hated American Politicians.

    Off Topic but, while I was at my weekly Harness Racing fixture at Corbiewood, I bumped into a friend who, as well as being a ‘pony owner’ also works in the North Sea. He advised that the first of the seven platforms currently being built in Korea at an estimate of 750 million each will be due for delivery soon.
    He advised this website for updates and comments and gave permission for me to pass on.

  58. Desimond says:

    It’s not just the daily media.

    Was reading the latest Private Eye last night and after numerous pieces slagging of “the nationalists” ( They killed Charles kennedy don’t you know!) I was all for actually being one of those “Please cancel my subscription” folk.

    Then 3 pages from the end they had a piece on land reform…talking of the 400 tax haven based corps who own most of scotlands prize estates. They go on to compare David Camerons rejection to deal with land reform in England where same corps are moving in big time and actually ended up praising Nicola and SNPs rejection of Scotland land purchases from outside EU…finished with me thinking “Damn that was good. I cant cancel now”

    Its like the godfather…just when you think you are out, they drag you back in.

  59. Robert Peffers says:

    Alex Linklater and Andrew Neil giving the Independence Supporters big licks just now. This is certainly a co-ordinated Establishment attacks.

  60. Desimond says:

    A Harry Potter stage show set to open next year has been announced by JK Rowling

    Will it be called

    Harry Potter and The Tweeting Horde?

  61. heedtracker says:

    A lot of UKOK media assaults over the years, like this Scottish ongoing monstering, have dove-tailed with what their readers actually wanted and voted for.

    So taking down Scargill and the miners made sense, getting Thatcherite tory world into power and then keeping them there all had majority middle, upper and working class England with them, even red tory Blair and Brown, Trident dumped in Scotland to keep them safe, contemporary immigrant bashing and so on.

    Scotland vote NO for devo-max and they cant bury that and they cant forcibly convince anyone in Scotland otherwise. Everyone knows now that devo-max is just not going to happen, from THE VOW fraud downwards. So from now on there’s this giant dysfunctional media mess going on in the BBC and all press, and it’s all about just unionists crapping on the majority of Scottish voters for the next 5 years at least.


  62. scott says:

    I see our good “FRIEND” andrew Neil is having a good go at the Cybernats on the Daily Politcs they are much worse than anyone else according to him hardly let the SNP MP get a word in,my blood pressure has come down a bit now.

  63. Sassenach says:

    OMG, just saw last few minutes of Andrew Neil this morning.

    Such venom towards Scotland – repeated “cybernats” mantra.

    We need a unionists word for their idiots.

    Good old BBC, never miss a trick.

  64. Petra says:

    Rev you should pick up on the Daily Politics show from around 12:45 today. I’ve just listened to Andrew Neil absolutely castigate Nicola Sturgeon and many SNP MPs for tweeting to the most disgusting of cybernats. It’s too involved to go into. You’d have to hear it for yourself. It was HELLISH to say the least.

  65. Thepnr says:


    Thanks for that post, as disturbing as the scenario is.

    “You might not know it, but Scotland is in the middle of a campaign against it. It is not a campaign to remove Scotland from the UK, it is one where public opinion is being amassed against Scotland receiving the perceived extra cash.”

    Yeah, that sounds about right.

  66. Richardinho says:

    I wanted this story about cutting the Queen’s funding to be true and after the behaviour of the British media I want it to be true even more.

  67. Alan of Neilston says:

    Yes Robert I watched it? According to the B.B.C and Andrew Neil its Only the S.N.P. who are enabling Cybernat’s to spread lies and abuse on Social Media not any of the Unionist Parties Associates. A.N’s line of aggressive Questions were weaponised!! The B.B.C. and their front man Andrew Neil need taking down. It’s all being Co-ordinated to ignore Scotland’s current position politically no doubt about it now.

  68. proudscot says:

    It seems the more hysterical organs of the Unionist press are doing their best to confirm the saying “A lie is half way round the world, before the truth has even got its socks on!”

  69. Capella says:

    The MPs and MSPs who are not religious “affirm” the oath rather than swear on the bible. You could have seen the different ways of doing it when the new MPs were sworn in after the election.
    So what is all this about “bended knee” about?

    Sounds like a vacuous wind up to me.

  70. Jimbo says:

    @ Liz – 11.43 am

    I see there is a suggestion it should debated in HoC whether SNP ministers should be required to bend the knee to affirm their allegiance again.

    Maybe they’ll propose replicating the Ragman Rolls to ensure us treasonous Scots know who are our masters.

  71. Anne Bruce says:

    D Canmore @ 11.56.

    Chilling but I think you are right on the button with your assessment.

  72. Midgehunter says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    “Trying to provoke us–that’s all. The relentless negativity towards Scotland and the Scots from the MSM and WM is all about trying to get us to demand the final indyref now when they think they can still win it and thus it really can be kicked into the long, long grass for the next 30-40 years. They know they will lose the final indyref if it is held say 5-7 years away. That is why they are trying to provoke us into demanding one now. We must be patient, keep our powder dry”

    I think PC is perfectly correct here and not only that.

    Their behaviour says to me that they know they can’t prevent another Referendum.

    Last time we played the nice guys and asked for a Ref. which Cameron, out of the “goodness” of his heart, gave us. (AS new what he was doing!).

    This time we will have the Sovereign Will of the Scots through a majority in Westminster AND in Holyrood behind us and can decide ourselves when we should hold a Ref.

    We also get to determine the rules of how it’s conducted.

    Rob. Peffers will correct me if I’m off the mark here.

  73. Brian Powell says:

    See the Unionist twitterers are flocking to buy Andrew Neil and the Great Twitter Abuse Scandal.

    Real Child Abuse by Elites at Westminster, and Tony Blair and the Destruction of Iraq, still in the boxes at the back of the shop.

  74. Eckle Fechan says:

    Maybe just shoddy content management (web pages) by the night-shift?

  75. Bob Mack says:

    Andrew Neil is the proud wearer of a unique Union Jack tartan.He is English to the core in spite of his reminiscences of a Scottish heritage.
    Again it adds up to a concerted effort to somehow criminalise the use of social media as opposed to the “balanced” view of mainstream. Aye right.
    I know which is balanced,and it aint Andrew Neil.

  76. Scott Borthwick says:

    Big Fraud says:
    26 June, 2015 at 10:54 am

    “Maybe they’re being really clever in a way”.

    I think it’s simpler and less clever. It was a simple ruse to make the SNP come out and say “No, we’re every bit as royalist as you.” This gives Westminster and the MSM two further lines of attack:

    1. See, we’re really are all the same across the UK. So much for Scots being somehow different; and
    2. (As suggested by Jacob Rees-Mogg), all the SNP MPs will be invited to publicly genuflect in front of the Queen in Parliament.

    All the better to put the uppity Jocks in their place, what?

  77. Marie clark says:

    O/T kinda, still media.

    Has anyone seen Derek Bateman’s latest piece. He has been offered, and accepted a post at the DAILY MAIL.

    Sorry my flabber has never been so gasted. Astonished.

    ( sorry cannae dae the link thing)

  78. Glamaig says:

    This attempted smear seems a bit inept to me. Most people’s reactions surely would be ‘giving less money to the queen, that’s a great idea, I’m going to vote SNP!’
    Didn’t they notice the lack of street parties here some time ago for some royal event (can’t even remember what it was).

  79. the great elbe says:

    Are they trying to push us out the door or what? Its either that or they will be dropping bombs on us next. It is the perfidious brit way after-all.

  80. Scott Borthwick says:

    Please save yourselves all a burst blood vessel by avoiding the Stephen Glover piece in yesterday’s Mail online. It’s the most vicious back-handed admission that the royal funding story was made up.

    Classic lines include:

    “Believe me, if I could honestly accuse the Scot Nats of acting disgracefully I would happily do so. There is something intrinsically unpleasant about them, as there is about all ultra-nationalists, and I pray that one day the Scottish people will wake up to this fact.”

    No self awareness there, then.

    “The Palace has idiotically succeeded in giving the moral advantage to as big a bunch of rogues as you could hope to find in a democratic parliament. I can’t bear to see them smelling of roses.”

    Wow. Apology accepted.

    He also quotes Sir Alan Reid, Keeper of the Privy Purse as saying “The Queen would still visit Balmoral and would continue to be Queen of Scotland”.

    Eh, no she wouldn’t, because she’s not currently the Queen of Scotland.

  81. Linda McFarlane says:

    I reckon that they are very scared over proposed Land reform bill.

    I also think that the anti austerity rallies have rattled them.

  82. Ali McIntyre says:

    As a committed republican I wish the story was true and Scotland would cease to fund this dysfunctional English aristocratic family with funds we could be spending on education or health.

    When the current incumbent passes, it is the twenty first century, well time Scots elected their own head of state and ran our own affairs!

  83. cirsium says:

    @Helena Brown, 11.44am

    I doubt the UN would respond to our request. Marie Clark posted (11.45am) “Courage, mes braves”. I would add “Dieu aide ceux qui s’aident”. We need to curtail postal voting. Both Ireland and Denmark have a range of ways to vote which do not involve the postal service. There is enough time to explore the options before the next indy ref.

  84. HandandShrimp says:

    I realise this will be a shock to regular readers but I will remain true to the principles of the Yes movement albeit with stylistic adjustments to include ‘vile cybernats’, ‘evil leader’, ‘lunatic economics’, immigrant crisis’ and ‘let the bastards drown’. Otherwise I will stay loyal to the cause.

    Derek’s announcement…satire or true? I don’t know. I think the Mail may regret it if true 🙂

    We don’t like the MSM but other than making it disappear taking up as much of its column inches as possible would be my second choice.

  85. Sassenach says:

    Unless my irony button has ceased working, I await his first contribution to the Mail with baited breath.

    Not the 1st April is it….??

  86. Paula Rose says:

    Derek Bateman is making a joke folks – re-boot your humour wotsits.

  87. Macart says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Looks like they’re winding up for a push Robert. They’re about to drop something nastier than usual policy wise methinks.

  88. Pam McMahon says:

    @Paula Rose. Made me laugh how many of his readers/commentators thought it was ever likely that Derek Bateman would even be asked to write for the Heil, let alone agree to do it.

    If I were him, I’d feel deeply insulted by these responses.

  89. Nana Smith says:

    Ah Derek what a lot of fun he’s having. Hope he enjoys his hols.

    With regards to the bbc it might be the threat of the child abuse revelations and who knew what, who kept company with the perpetrators which may be having an effect on some media folk. The screeching about cybernats takes the heat off some, perhaps those within the bbc where a lot of abuse took place.

    Many folk are unaware of the abuse within parliament, care homes etc. We should all be making sure to keep the pressure on.

    Remember when Davie wanted to shut down the internet. Maybe that’s what they are aiming for with the cybernat nonsense.

  90. frazer allan whyte says:

    Maybe be they want to provoke a “republican insurrection” – sounds good to me. Why not run it as a giant picnic in Cowal – fight radiation with sandwiches – a nice day out with the entire SNP membership.It would make a good media statement and be fun.

    Capella – many “religious” people also do not swear on the Bible or anything else for the matter as the NT – Jesus and James – describe it as evil. Telling the truth should be the “default setting” in human discourse.If someone has to add something then the suspicion exists that they are not naturally a truthful person.

  91. G. says:

    @ Bob Mack at 11:34 has it right

    1. The most obvious—they are trying hard to discredit the SNP at every turn,hoping to influence voters to turn against them.

    I think the unfolding strategy is:

    1. make the Scotland Bill a trap for the SNP so as to force them to include a conditional indyref2 in the 2016 Holyrood manifesto — which will become self fulfilling because of growing pressure from Yessers who see their second and final chance of independence being tightly time limited.

    2. soften up the electorate in advance of indyref2 with anti-SNP fiction.

    If there is no indyref2 called, there’s no loss.

    If there is an indyref2 called, the No campaign has had a head start — which is already underway.

    They only had to swing 5% from Yes to No last time, and it’s going to be easier to do that kind of stunt a second time if you have e.g.

    1. negatively associated Saltires with Swastikas in the subconscious of the electorate.

    2. associated the SNP with an anti-royal agenda.

    3. associated independence with failure because the remaining oil has no value — which means the SNP lied last time (and so this time).

    4. associated renewables with failure by reducing investment in them.

    5. and so on.


    indyref2 is not something that HMG is going to wait for.

    They have to assume it will happen in the next few years, and they are tooling up for it now. (Labour has already signalled it is onside by abstaining on any Westminster vote that matters.)

    If it doesn’t happen, there is no cost to them and everything to gain.

    It’s not unlike knowing there is going to be a coal strike, and stockpiling coal at power stations before it happens; and then forcing the strike to start in the Summer.

    Sun Tzu’s Art of War never dates.



    I would respectfully suggest than posts with an anti-royal flavour may unwittingly play into that agenda because the Queen remains immensely popular.

    Cybernats-are-Sturgeon’s-agents is a well established narrative, so if the “news”papers start painting cybernats and (by association) Nicola Sturgeon, as anti-Queen [as at present] that will be something we must try not to fuel.

    I have no doubt that any indyref2 which is framed, by either side, as having anything to do with losing the Queen will be an automatic No vote and Game Over.

    Alex Salmond had it right in expressing his hope that she would want to be Queen of Scots in an independent Scotland.

  92. Sassenach says:

    “… Such venom towards Scotland – repeated “cybernats” mantra.
    We need a unionists word for their idiots …”

    “cyberserfs” has a nice ring to it, imho

  93. Big Fraud says:

    @ Rev. Stu

    In that case I should’ve written “many” as opposed to “most”.

  94. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Manandboy. I dont need to join a political party (snp ) to support them or any other party . Im a grassrooter when I started a grassrooter when the jobs done. But my message is always the same Independence.

  95. Lesley M says:

    You know, I think this just might be precursory stuff for the EU vote. Lets think of the long term plan – to get rid of the human rights act. That cannot be done within the EU framework. So therefore they’d want to come out of the EU, should thy not get independent control over rights, which I fail to see Europe allowing. Enter us Scots, who in the main are pro-EU. Now with all the anti-Scots sentiment in England after the referendum campaign, I think they may just be setting up to harness that sentiment for the undecided in the EU argument. If a vote for the EU is a vote WITH Scotland – it may just dissuade some from voting to protect their own rights, out of English nationalist pride. Watch this space – they’ll be much linking of SNP/EU I reckon. And in linking it, they’ll hope folk down south will vote to spite us. All they have to do is continually plaster Scots in the English rags. Folk are already fed up down south hearing about us, they’re just going to keep that momentum going and turn the EU vote into a vote against Scotland. I’m sure it’ll be good for a few votes a least. Next few weeks – pro EU Scot will have open borders to EU will be the story. I’m sure of it.

  96. Robert Peffers says:

    @Midgehunter says: 26 June, 2015 at 1:18 pm:

    ” … This time we will have the Sovereign Will of the Scots through a majority in Westminster AND in Holyrood behind us and can decide ourselves when we should hold a Ref.

    We also get to determine the rules of how it’s conducted.

    Rob. Peffers will correct me if I’m off the mark here.”

    Yes, under Scots law the people are sovereign but to make it legal we must mandate our legally elected representatives to hold a referendum, (or anything else for that matter).

    Given a big enough democratic demand from the people to our elected representatives and they have only one other legal option to doing what we want them to do. That other option is to resign – in which case we just then elect someone in their place who will do our bidding.

    You will find that stated in the Declaration of Arbroath: Just after the part that begins, “For as long as but 100 of us remains alive”, comes the bit where the people state they will drive out the king and replace him if he fails to protect the people’s sovereignty.

  97. Bob says:

    The people of Scotland are now, on the whole, united against the British establishment.

    This is a fundamental fact and is the root of Scotland’s treatment.

    The British establishment’s greatest fear, is that the people of England also unite against them.

    Everything that is being thrown at Scotland is engineered to keep the people of England on side. And they don’t care if it means pitting Scotland and England against each other – again.

    Which is why it’s so important that Scotland makes it very clear to the people of England, and repeatedly makes it clear, that this is not about the peoples of our countries. That it’s about the British establishment and our rejection of their disguised but imposed systemic serfdom.

    We should be making this very clear and inviting the people of England to also reject – to stand up and demand a better system

    We all want to live in a modern democracy after all – and not this piss taking sham. It’s time for it to end, but it won’t end if we let them divide us by turning Scotland and England against each other.

  98. nodrog says:

    I watched PM Cameron the other day telling MP Angus Robertson that the SNP’s idea of FFA would become a Full Fiscal Shambles. In the interests of the pot calling the kettle black I thought it might be fair to list just a few of the Tory Governments current shambles.

    Non specific £12billion cuts shambles.
    EU Referendum shambles.
    Network Rail shambles.
    Northern Powerhouse shambles.
    Scotland Bill shambles.
    Chilcot Inquiry shambles.
    Historical Establishment Abuse Inquiry shambles.
    BBC Trust(Offcom) shambles.
    Immigration Policy shambles.
    Frenchgate release of e.mail shambles.
    and many more!!

    However they do have the power to do as they like and be sure they will! One of them even insisting that SNP MP’s should reaffirm loyalty to the Queen. So much for Democracy, now you are not allowed to not agree with monarchy.
    Sweeping this lot under the carpet will not just create a lump – it becomes a mountain called HYPOCRISY.

  99. heedtracker says:

    That’s a cracker from Bateman,

    “I’m announcing today that I’ve been offered and have accepted a role writing for the Daily Mail. They’re looking for more diversity in their coverage and think I’ll provide balance. It still involves matching the house style of course so I’ll be away for a few weeks at the Rothermere Conference and Re-education Centre in Portugal to learn the ropes. I’m also being fitted for a uniform although I hear I might be the right size for Paul Dacre’s brown shirt.”

    This is the piped music at the Rothermere Conference centre

  100. Stoker says:

    The scummy Unionist rags, owned by different non-doms, are even using the same pictures. Perhaps they should just amalgamate and rename themselves The Tory Times.

    It would certainly help lower pollution levels, eh!

  101. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Robert Peffers at 2.44

    Largely with Robert on this
    The only people that can decide our future is us.
    Despite all the waffle about this law and that law we don’t have to ask anybody’s permission to choose independence

  102. Dal Riata says:

    As we stand, the Conservative UK government is free to progress and promote whatever agenda it wishes to persue, such is the weakness of the ‘official opposition’ Labour party. The June, 2015 Labour party is leaderless and without direction. The June, 2015 Labour party is not even sure what it stands for and is floundering around on treacherous UK political-seas rudderless and ineffective.

    All organs of the UK/British state are intrinsically committed to maintaining its being. Those organs employ many people to act on their behalf. Those actors of the state are the real power behind the throne, so to speak – unknown, working with impugnity, unaccountable and way, way beyond the law.

    Add a Conservative government (with a weak opposition) to a British state with all its ‘means’: the first estate (the clergy); the second estate (nobility); the third estate (commoners) who are duped into believing the message promulgated by; the fourth estate (the UK’s right-wing dominated mainstream press and broadcast media); GCHQ, MI5, MI6, unknowns and all the actors contained within (and without) those organs and you have a formidable state machine of command and control formed and perfected over many years.

    Of course, that state machinery will do all it can, legal and illegal, to negate the influence of the SNP, its leadership and its representatives. The continuing rise of the SNP and the increasing calls for independence from ever more Scots has seen the possibility of the integrity of the UK itself coming undone – which will simply not be allowed to happen.

    The possibilty that British state actors were in no way involved in obtaining the ‘correct’ result of the Scottish referendum is negligible.

  103. paulTgeist says:

    @ Alan (7.08pm) – The 77 Men Who Stare At Goats.

  104. David McDowell says:

    “We’re at a loss to explain it.”

    Let me have a try:

    This is just the latest in a glut of stories recently that aren’t just the usual anti-independence bile, but also have a particularly insulting tone towards Scotland, its Westminster MPs, or its First Minister.

    The London-based rags have been full of them.

    The plan appears to be to goad us into demanding an early second referendum which they, with their well-known superior intelligence, have decided we would lose, as opposed to one in five or ten years time, which they know THEY will almost certainly lose.

    Their latest “cunning” idea is for them to then say: “Well, that’s two referendums lost, the issue is now definitely settled forever”.

    Rest assured, the fact many Scots rumbled the usual propaganda onslaught at the general election, and that many more are now cottoning on instantly to their scheming provocations, is worrying the media propagandists and their political paymasters immensely.

  105. yesindyref2 says:

    I’ve been looking up The Times dictionary and found this:

    News: this is where we tell you our version of what is happening in the world.
    Truth: See definition for “News”.
    Synonyms: Pravda, William Joyce, Lord Haw Haw, Progaganda, UKOK, bullshit

  106. BornOptimist says:

    I just loved the juxtaposition of the ideas in two paragraphs in one Daily Mail article.

    “The Queen’s own spending is above board and apparently moderate, as one would expect of a NATURALLY FRUGAL PERSON who has always watched the pennies.”

    “”That said, her grant of £40.05 MILLION this year is expected to RISE TO £42.8 MILLION next year, which is somewhat more than the rate of inflation.”

    I wish pensioners were treated in the same manner: each pensioner would get something like an extra £10 per week. Or for those on the basic wage they could add an extra 7 or so pence for each pound on their wages.

    In a democracy everyone ought to have the right to be that frugal.

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